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From YouTube: Planning Advisory Committee - March 2, 2022
Description
Planning Advisory Committee - Wednesday, March 2, 2022
Agenda and supporting documents available at www.ottawa.ca/agendas
A
Okay,
we'll
we'll
we'll
get
going,
I
mean,
obviously,
if
other
people
come
in,
it
is
5
36.
After
all,
so
if
other
people
show
up,
they
can
obviously
join
us.
We
only
have
the
one
item
today,
but
I
did
email
you
all
to
suggest
that
we
could
also
have
a
conversation
about
next
term.
I
mean
we
do
have
one
more
meeting
at
some
point
in
this
term.
I
can't
remember
if
it's
before
or
after
I
leave.
A
A
I
mean
I've
been
on
it
since
the
since
we
we
created
it,
as
you
might
have
recognized,
I'm
the
only
counselor
that
seems
to
ever
come,
which
is
a
concern
that
we
have
to
go
into
next
term,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
this
committee
be
as
beneficial
as
it
can
be,
but
we
need
council
support
for
that.
So,
but
I
do
think
having
a
conversation
tonight
after
we
do
the
the
word
2022
work
plan
just
about
next
term.
A
It
can
also
give
us
a
chance
to
look
at
the
governance
of
the
committee
into
next
term.
Make
recommendations
for
how
this
committee
can
can
move
ahead
and
be
useful,
because
I
do
believe
it
is.
It
is
useful
and
I
think
it's
the
only
public
forum
really
that
we
have
parties
from
all
different
groups
involved
in
one
in
one
discussion,
city
staff,
development,
industry,
members
of
the
community.
I
think
it's
incredibly
useful
panel.
A
A
So
with
that,
I
see
shannon
bassett
and
carolyn
mckenzie
have
joined
us,
so
I
don't
think
there's
a
need
to
do
a
roll
call.
I
mean
we
see
who's
here,
just
to
just
a
reminder,
and
claude
schellenberger's
also
joining
us
here,
just
a
reminder
that
we
are
recording
this
and
it
will
be
posted
on
youtube
afterwards.
So
we
don't,
we
don't
live
stream,
but
we
will
post
on
youtube
after
the
meeting,
so
we'll
go
right
into
it.
A
So
we
have
again
just
the
one
item
tonight:
declaration
of
interest,
any
decrease
of
interest.
None
perfect
confirmation,
a
minute,
so
we
we
did
just
on
that.
We
don't
have
the
french
minutes
prepared
for
approval.
So
as
as
such,
we
won't
confirm
the
minutes
for
from
our
november
10th
2021
meeting
tonight.
We
will
hold
those
and
bring
them
back
at
the
next
meeting,
so
the
minutes
from
tonight's
end.
The
last
meeting
will
be
done
at
the
next
meeting.
Carolyn
question
on
that.
D
I
just
looked
at
them
very
very
briefly,
obviously,
but
I
noticed
that
one
of
the
actions
was
to
was
to
come
back
with
the
question
that
I
had
posed,
which
was
about
the
timing
of
the
quick
hits
report.
I
mean
I'll,
get
the
names
right
on
these
things,
but
the
quick
hits
report
for
the
zoning
review.
D
The
theme
discussion
papers,
as
well
as
the
benchmarking
or
comparative
analysis
paper.
The
latter
two
I
believe
the
theme
discussion
papers,
as
well
as
the
benchmarking
analysis,
in
the
work
plan
that
was
approved
by
council
last
january.
If
I'm
not
mistaken,
those
were
scheduled,
perhaps
not
for
public
engagement,
it's
not
clear
to
me
but
to
be
completed
in
q2
and
q3
of
2021..
D
So
my
question
was
about:
when
could
we
expect
public
consultation
on
all
of
those
items?
The
minutes
just
reflect
that.
I
had
asked
for
the
timing
about
the
quick
hits
report
now
I
did
follow
up
with
that.
After
I
realized
I
hadn't
received
a
response.
I
did
get
a
response
from
staff
that
talked
about
the
theme
discussion
papers,
in
particular
being
the
subject
of
public
consultation
after
the
approval
by
the
province
of
the
official
plan,
so
that,
if
that's
the
answer,
that's
the
answer.
D
D
A
All
right,
well,
we'll
see
steve
will
will
comment.
I
will
say
that
we
are
just
working
on
providing
notice
for
a
special
joint
meeting
of
planning
committee,
as
well
as
agricultural
affairs
committee
to
meet
on
april
22nd
to
deal
with
the
implementation
report
arising
from
the
new
official
plan,
as
well
as
the
big
news
report,
which
was
commented
on
last
last
year,
steve
lewis.
E
But
what
we'll
commit
to
do
and
charmaine
can
talk
to
david
wise's
group-
is
we'll
actually
generate
a
memo
to
this
committee,
like
we
normally
generate
memos
to
counsel
and
just
give
the
latest
information
on
this
to
this
committee.
So
you'll
get
that
information,
and
it's
also
part
of,
as
mr
moffat
says,
when
committee,
the
joint
committee
started
discussing
kind
of
the
work
plan
as
we
go
forward.
Post-Op
implementation
you'll
be
part
of
that
as
well,
but
I
don't
mind
just
generating
a
memo
specifically
to
everyone
here
with
that
information.
D
Okay,
that's
great
thanks
again,
just
just
would
encourage
getting
those
things
out.
You
know
get
them
on
the
website
that
so
that
they're
in
the
public
realm,
so
people
can
start
thinking
about
them.
So
we're
not
saying
oh
we're.
You
know
we're
squeezed
for
time
on
these
things
to
to
properly.
You
know,
think
things
through
thanks.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
So
that
brings
us
to
well
to
steve
willis,
so
we're
going
to
the
the
one
item
on
the
agenda,
which
is
the
planning
infrastructure
and
economic
development
department,
which
is
that
it's
not
called
that
anymore.
So
it's
now
called
the
planning
real
estate
and
economic
development
department.
That's.
A
So
202
work
plan,
steve
willis,
jeremy
and
four
he's
also
here
and
john
buck
john
buck
is
our
chief
building
official
and
charming
fork.
Is
our
chief
bottle
washer
because
she
does
a
little
bit
of
everything
at
at
in
our
planning
group
and
she
was
instrumental
in
in
coordinating
a
lot
of
moving
parts
when
it
came
to
the
official
plan,
the
meeting
all
the
work
that
went
into
it
behind
the
scenes
with
the
members
of
council
members
of
the
public
and
the
motions
and
delegations
and
whatnot.
E
So
they've
been
part
of
our
team
for
a
little
while
and
then
last
october,
when
they
changed
the
transportation
services
department
to
be
a
transit,
focused
department,
transportation
planning
came
into
our
department
as
well
at
that
point
in
time,
and
then
traffic
operations
went
over
to
public
works
department
at
that
point
in
time
in
the
city.
So
so
we
became
you
know:
planning
infrastructure,
real
estate,
transportation,
planning,
economic
development.
E
A
new
department
was
created
called
infrastructure
and
water
services
which
took
in
the
the
whole
ottawa
water
management
side,
and
it
also
took
infrastructure
services
that
used
to
be
part
of
our
group
as
well,
so
that
was
the
design
and
construction
municipal
infrastructure
project.
So
that's
now
part
of
the
new
infrastructure
and
water
services
department.
So
I
I
can
tell
you
it's
it's
it's.
E
E
It's
actually
quite
a
truncated
year,
and
we
also
you
know
we're
reaching
at
the
end
of
this
mandate,
and
we
expect
some
significant
changes
in
the
composition
of
council
next
time
between
people
who
have
said
they
are
not
running
and
we
we
know
we
will
have
a
new
mayor,
no
matter
what
so
that
will
mean
things,
will
change
and
also
at
the
end
of
the
four
year
cycle.
It
brings
to
the
end
the
current
city
strategic
plan,
which
is
not
a
land
use
planning
document.
E
So
a
lot
of
this
year's
work
program
is
finishing
off
things
that
we
promised
to
do
this
term
of
council
and
in
a
truncated
year.
So
that's
really
that
you'll
see
those
themes
in
our
in
our
presentation,
but
the
chair
moffat
and
I
did
talk
a
little
bit
that
I
actually
as
we're
going
into
the
preparatory
work
for
a
brand
new
council,
a
new
city,
strategic
plan
and
and
and
really
a
new
departmental
work
plan
for
the
next
term
of
council.
E
I
actually
would
value
some
feedback
tonight
from
you
about
really
what
should
we
be
focusing
in
on
in
the
next
term
of
council.
We
have
some
things
in
this
presentation.
I
can
tell
you
some
of
the
internal
thinking
that
we're
working
on
as
well,
but
I
actually
do
want
some
feedback
on
that.
So,
if
I
go
to
the
next
slide,
please
so
I'm
first
going
to
give
you
some
just
a
quick
snapshot
of
some
highlights
from
2021
and
then
I'm
going
to
break
down
the
work
plans
between
all
of
the
service
areas.
E
That
report
through
planning
committee,
which
is
the
linkage
to
this
committee.
We
have
other
work
that
the
department
does,
that
reports
through
other
standing
committees,
such
as
environment
or
finance,
and
economic
development,
like
those
are
not
linked
to
the
mandate
of
this
committee.
But
if
anybody
has
questions
on
those
other
areas,
I'm
happy
to
answer.
So
we
focused
primarily
on
on
where
this
committee
has
a
mandate
is
really
helping
advise
towards
planning
on
the
department
and
planning
committee
and
agriculture
and
world
affairs
committee.
E
So,
as
I
said,
we'll
break
down
by
building
code
services,
charmaine's
group,
which
is
building
in
business
and
technical
support
services,
economic
development,
long-range
planning,
planning
services,
which
is
the
approvals
group
and
then
the
right-of-way
heritage
and
urban
design
group.
So
the
next
slide,
please,
if
there's
just
a
title
slide,
which
is
the
highlight
so
we'll
go
to
the
next
slide,
which
is
kind
of
fun.
I
mean
you
know.
E
It
is
actually
amazing
the
amount
of
work
that
gets
done
in
any
given
year
around
the
department
and
never
give
a
presentation
and
cover
everything
that
the
staff
do.
I
mean
I
have
a
really
hard
working
team
that
really
does
do
an
enormous
amount
and
we
just
tried
to
pick
some
snapshots
from
different
service
areas
so
that
you
can
get
a
get
it
get
a
flavor
of
the
whole
department
as
well.
So
infrastructure
service
is
one
of
the
big
projects
they
completed.
E
E
E
We
had
a
lot
of
complicated
development
approvals
in
the
this
year,
as
we
always
do
in
any
one
year.
Really
interesting
project
is
a
two
robinson
and
320
lees,
which
is
really
a
transit
oriented
development
project.
It's
it's
a
mixed
use,
development.
It
has
a
six-story
podium
with
two
towers
at
28
stories
and
one
at
32
to
32..
E
E
It
was
a
very
tough
site
because
of
its
location,
and
we
managed
to
resolve
a
lot
of
issues
and
improve
some
a
lot
of
the
street
connectivity
and
some
of
the
section
30,
sorry
that
where
there
was
no
mandatory
section
37
because
of
the
existing
zoning,
but
there
was
a
number
of
contributions
in
this
project
outside
of
section
37
to
improve,
like
the
cycling
connectivity.
In
the
immediate
area,
as
well,
really
important
project
for
the
entire
city
is
the
approvals
that
have
gone
in
into
this
year
for
the
new
ottawa
hospital.
E
This
is
a
three
billion
dollar
project,
it'd,
be
the
largest
single
investment
in
the
in
ottawa,
outside
of
the
lrt
system
in
history,
and
it's
probably
going
to
end
up
being
one
of
the
largest
buildings
ever
built
in
ottawa,
and
it's
also
it's
you
know
it's
it's
so
much
more
than
a
hospital.
It's
a
it's
a
new
modern
hospital,
it's
a
state-of-the-art
research
institution
that
will
attract
some
of
the
best
and
brightest
minds
from
around
the
world
to
work
in
ottawa
and
we
have
the
the
main
hospital
building.
E
E
You
know
this
group's
talked
to
us
about
the
completion
of
the
new
official
plan,
and
you
know
we
really
did
do
this
in
a
in
a
remarkably
fast
pace,
and
I
and
I
am
proud
of
what
we've
accomplished.
I
think
in
ottawa.
We've
done
a
lot
of
the
right
things,
but
did
it
the
ottawa
way?
Some
of
you
may
have
seen
the
provincial
housing
task
force,
recommendations
that
came
out
recently
and
talked
about
a
lot
of
things
we
need
to
do.
E
You
know,
I
think,
in
the
spirit
of
that
task
force
that
we're
trying
to
do
a
lot
of
good
things
than
that
ottawa
did
on
its
own.
Our
council
had
the
courage
to
do
a
lot
of
the
intensification
to
try
to
have
a
more
balanced
growth
management
model
through
that
new
official
plan,
and
we
created
new
opportunities
and-
and-
and
you
know,
we
had
an
almost
unanimous
vote
at
council
on
the
new
official
plan-
and
I
you
know-
that's
not
an
easy
feat
through
the
process.
I
acknowledge
fully.
E
That
was
a
very
fast
process.
The
zoning
will
not
go
that
fast.
Zoning
bylaws.
Never
because
the
level
of
detail
are
so
much
more
complicated,
they
will
go,
it
will
be
a
slower
process
and
more
fine-grained
and
probably
in
a
series
of
tranches
over
time
as
we
resolve
issues
and
try
to
modernize
our
zoning
bylaw.
E
What
I
like
about
the
new
official
plan
is
it's
eminently
more
readable
than
the
old
one,
and
it's
visual
and
more
they're,
more
easy
tools
to
kind
of
understand
the
intent
of
counsel.
In
that
new
document.
The
new
zoning
bylaw
has
to
really
be
a
likewise
a
much
more
modern,
user-friendly
document,
because
it's
I'm
not
gonna,
I
will
say,
I
think,
existing
bylaw,
because
it's
been
amended
so
many
times
and
it's
based
on
a
very
old
model.
E
It's
very
unfriendly
to
use
it's
very
hard,
even
though
I've
been
in
the
field
a
very
very
long
time.
I
get
flustered,
sometimes
even
trying
to
understand
it
in
certain
sites.
When
I
go
look
up
things
and
it's
got
to
get
a
lot
better
than
that,
you
want
it
to
be
much
more
intuitive
for
people
to
be
able
to
use,
and
you
don't
want
people
to
have
to
hire
three
lawyers
to
interpret
it.
So
I
really
have
grand
goals
about
making
a
much
more
user-friendly
document
in
the
future.
E
E
So
it's
very
much
a
work
in
progress.
We've
we've
come
a
long
way
and
I,
I
think,
it'll
be
a
lot
easier
to
you
know.
I
really
do
see
the
day
when
we're
planning
committee
and
we
pull
up
the
digital
3d
model
and
turn
it
around.
Look
at
it
a
little
bit
as
we're
talking
about
as
people
are
actually
making
proposals
make
it
easier
to
do,
and
certainly
for
secondary
planning
work.
It'll
be
a
big
deal,
a
big
difference
for
what
we're
going
to
do.
E
D
E
Next
slide,
please,
so
I'm
going
to
talk
about
building
code
services
and
john's
here,
john,
our
chief
building
officials,
here,
if
people
want
to
get
into
a
bit
more
detail
on
this,
you
know
in
in
in
last
year.
We
john
phoned
me
up.
I
think
it
was
late
october
john.
You
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
and
phoned
me
up
and
said
we
hit
a
whole
new.
E
That
is
the
real
indicator
of
how
much
we're
we're
building
in
the
year
and
so
john's
team
is
always
responsible
for
you
know
for
the
initial
approvals
of
permits,
the
inspections
during
construction,
and
they
also
have
an
enforcement
team
that
deals
with
problems
with
compliance
and
so
they're
they're.
A
very,
very
busy
group-
and
I
you
know,
will
say
to
this
group
that
I'm
extremely
proud
that
they
were
the
only
major
city
building
code
service
that
did
not
shut
down
at
any
point.
During
the
pandemic.
E
We
never
shut
down
a
single
day.
We
pivoted
our
operations
and
we
kept
things
going
and
I'll.
Tell
you
that
I
you
know,
I
will
vividly
remember
probably
the
rest
of
my
career
a
day.
I
sat
down
with
john's
predecessor,
frank
bedin
and
said
if
we
shut
down
building
permits,
we
are
shutting
down
thousands
of
people's
jobs
in
ottawa
and
we
understood
that
and
we
made
a
determination
that
we
were
going
to
find
a
way
not
to
do
that
and
the
other
benefit
of
never
shutting
down.
E
Is
we
didn't
create
the
backlog
when
we
restarted
that
other
cities
had
so
I'm
still
blown
away
from
my
building
code
team,
who
you
know
very,
very
dedicated
people
who
work
very,
very
hard?
And
so
in
terms
of
our
2022
focus,
you
know
we're
updating
the
pool
and
closure
bylaw,
which
hasn't
been
looked
at
since
2013.
E
There
is
a
some
some
mechanical
things
in
our
building
bylaw,
which
talks
about
how
we
want
to
run
our
building
code
operations
that
has
to
also
be
reviewed.
It
hasn't
been
looked
at
since
2014.
municipal
addressing
by
law
is
a
complicated
bylaw.
It's
it.
It's
needs
again
an
update,
and
one
thing
we're
really
excited
about.
Is
we
had
the
first
go
live
moment
of
a
brand
new
technology
system
for
managing
our
tracking
of
building
permit
applications?
E
It's
the
internal
facing
side
that
handles
all
of
the
permit,
issuance
and
and
inspection
side
is
live
to
us
for
our
own
staff,
to
use
and
within
a
very
short
period
of
time,
the
public-facing
side,
so
that
if
you're,
an
applicant
we'll
see
the
new
brand
new
land
management
system-
and
you
know
it's
replacing
an
antiquated
system-
that's
also
used
by
our
planning
approvals
group
that
I
swear
is
being
held
together
by
elastic
bands
and
paper
clips.
It's
in
a
it's
a
technology,
it's
no
longer
even
supported.
E
So
this
is
a
really
critical
back
office
tool.
We
need
that
we
put
on
and,
as
I
said,
we
continue
to
to
adjust
our
operations
every
time
covet,
rules
change
which
is
a
because
it's
a
very
on
the
ground
activity.
You
know
you
can
imagine
if
you're
going
into
people's
homes
or
you're
going
into
construction
sites,
we
have
to
keep
changing
our
operational
practices
as
the
rules
change
around
us.
So
next
slide
please.
E
So
our
business
and
technical
support
services,
which
is,
is
a
group.
That's
you
know
almost
every
project
the
department
does.
This
group
has
a
role
in
somehow
they're,
not
necessarily
the
people
you
see
at
the
front,
but
they
definitely
are
the
backbone
of
everything
we
do.
So
if
we
go
to
the
next
slide,
please
this
is
the
charmaine's
group
and
if
you
any
of
you,
have
worked
closely
with
charmaine
you,
you
know
how
much
charmaine
personally
is
involved
in
many
of
these
activities,
so
we
we
will
be
releasing
very
shortly.
E
The
community
benefits
charge
strategy.
This
is
the
new
bylaw
that
replaces
section
37
contributions
and
it's
part
of
the
new
requirements
by
the
province
since
bill
108,
section
37
disappears
at
the
end
of
the
year
goes
away,
and
this
will
be
the
new
system
that
places
it.
It's
a
lot
like
a
development
charge
for
softer
services
and
we'll
be
putting
that
out
very
shortly
for
review
and
consultation.
E
E
I
think
in
the
winter
we
see,
particularly
in
the
winter,
our
numbers
are
way
up
compared
to
prior
years
and
we're
getting.
You
know:
racial
diversity,
age,
diversity,
things
that
you
know
you
know
we
haven't
seen
before.
So
I
think,
there's
a
you
know,
do
we
reset
to
where
we
were
before.
Do
we
continue
on?
And
this
is
one
of
the
things
we're
looking
at
very
closely.
E
You
know
there
are
some
communities
of
the
city,
however,
where
technology
is
not
as
widespread
where
people
don't
have
it
available,
so
we
are
going
to
have
to
have
some
mix
of
format
depending
on
where
we
are
in
the
city
and
the
communities
we're
talking
to
a
lot
of
the
new
official
planning.
You
know
the
work's
not
done
once
the
minister
approves
it.
E
E
And
the
next
one,
please
economic
development
and
long-range
planning
next
slide,
please.
So
our
our
2022
focus
will
be
the
new
official
plan
implementation
and
we
do
expect
a
decision
by
the
minister
in
the
coming
weeks.
I
think
it'll,
be
you
know
before
spring
really
sets
in
in
ottawa
version
of
spring.
E
E
E
We've
been
working
very
hard
on
our
climate
change,
master
plan
implementation,
and
there
are
a
number
of
elements
to
that
that
are
being
worked
on
right
now,
we've
rolled
out
a
whole
number
of
new
programs
in
the
last
year
and
they're.
The
high
performance
development
standards
are
going
to
committee
next
week,
which
is
another
piece
of
the
puzzle
on
that.
E
We
talked
about
briefly
about
the
new,
comprehensive
zoning
bylaw
work
that
we're
getting
started
on
and
we're
working
on
that
climate
risk
and
vulnerability
assessment
and
we've
been
doing
some
joint,
really
good
joint
work
with
the
national
capital
commission
on
looking
at
infrastructure,
vulnerability
in
the
city
and
more
to
say
about
that
in
the
coming
months
as
well.
Next
slide,
please.
E
We've
also
committed,
through
this
term
of
council,
to
finish
a
series
of
new
secondary
plans,
transit,
oriented
developments
and
those
ones
are
ones.
We
have
to
bring
to
the
finishing
line
this
tournament
council
and
those
include
the
orleans
court
or
the
174
corridor
study
riverside
south
community
pinecrest
queensway
station
area
and
the
lincoln
field
station
area.
So
those
are
the
ones
that
we
need
to
complete
this
year
and
in
the
next
term
of
council,
council
will
tell
us
what
they
think
the
priorities
are.
E
Although
I
think,
during
the
official
plan
process,
we've
said,
send
some
signals
of
ones.
We
we
think,
need
to
be
an
early
priority
because
of
the
development
activity.
Interest
that
we've
been
seeing-
and
one,
for
example,
is
in
that
category.
It's
up
to
the
next
council
to
tell
us
what
the
priorities
are,
but
we're
looking
very
seriously
prepare
preparatory
work
for
the
baseline
corridor
secondary
plan,
because
there's
been
so
much
activity
and
we
also
have
because
the
federal
government
is
doing
work
on
rethinking
some
of
its
major
campuses
as
well.
E
Confederation
heights
is
one
that
they're
active
on
right
now,
and
so
that
will
be
they're
driving
the
planning
process,
but
we're
heavily
involved
in
working
with
them
on
that
so
that'll
become
another
big
term
of
council
next
term
accounts
will
be
working
on
as
well,
but
it's
already
started
so
the
next
slide,
please
so
planning
services.
The
group
that
handles
all
of
the
approvals
functions
with
for
for
zoning
site
plans,
official
plans,
that
sort
of
then
a
number
of
other
approvals.
I
think
there's
some
like
16
different
approvals
that
we
actually
process.
E
If
I
can
go
to
the
next
slide,
please
we're
seriously
looking
at
our
resources
right
now
and
how
our
resources
are
best
applied
deployed.
There
has
been
work
by
a
number
of
groups
looking
at
how
ottawa
does
in
relationship
to
other
municipalities
in
ontario,
and
you
know
it's
a
good
news,
bad
news
story
for
us.
I
don't
always
love
looking
at
statistics
like
this,
but
you
know
an
official
plan
process
amendment,
which
is
a
complicated
project.
E
Ottawa
does
about
middle
of
the
pack
in
ontario,
but
rezonings
we're
actually
one
of
the
better
municipalities
in
ontario.
In
terms
of
stunning
timelines,
but
we're
having
significant
problems
on
site
plan
and
probably
in
the
among
the
lowest
performers
in
ontario
and
site
plan
approvals
we
take
longer
than
most
and
we
have
very
different
processes
than
other
cities.
E
Insight
plan
and
plans
of
subdivision
are
really
funny
when
we've
been
doing
a
lot
of
statistical
analysis
in
the
last
couple
of
months
to
figure
what's
going
on,
and
you
know
I
think
when
I
before
we
looked,
I
thought
I
thought
what
we
would
find
when
I
before
we
actually
dug
into
the
data.
I'd,
say:
okay,
the
urban
ones
were
doing
okay
in
this,
you
know
suburban
growth
areas,
they're
doing
okay,
but
anything
that's
in
the
rural
or
villages
is
really
slow,
and
I
was
actually
wrong.
E
E
It
is
related
to
our
resources
review
and
we
probably
will
go
to
the
next
term
of
council
to
looking
at
a
fee
increase
to
add
some
more
tactical
resources
in
areas
that
we
know
that
there
are
choke
points
in
the
process
to
try
to
do
it.
And
you
know
these
are
choke
points
that
are
not
necessarily
public
input
joke
points.
These
are
these
are
things
like
you
know,
engineering
reviews
that
are
stuck
or
legal
agreements
that
are
that
are
taking
too
long
to
get
these.
Are
these
are
much
more.
E
You
know,
process
oriented
resource
problems
we
have,
and
so
we'll
be
looking
at
that
as
well.
But
you
know
with
the
if
this
level
of
development
activity
keeps
up
for
more
years.
We
really,
you
know
we
haven't
changed
our
resource
levels
in
many
many
years,
yet
the
number
of
applications
have
gone
up
considerably,
so
this
is
something
we
have
to
look
at
as
well.
E
We
also
have
to
look
at
sort
of
the
the
legal
conditions
for
site
plan
approvals
and
update
that
and
work
in
and
those
haven't
been
updated
years.
We
updated
the
subdivision
plan
ones
a
couple
years
ago,
but
site
plan
has
not
been
looked
at
in
a
long
time
and
we've
been
looking
at
just
even
you
know:
we've
had
a
generational
turnover
in
the
group
just
be
in
terms
of
level
of
experience.
E
That's
actually
a
strange
bottleneck
we
found
is
that
is
when
a
lot
of
staff
changing
jobs
is
also
creating
a
bit
of
the
choke
points
in
the
process
as
well.
So
we're
trying
to
work
through
that,
and
then
we
have
to
take
the
entire
development
review
team
and
train
them
up
on
the
new
official
plan
and
how
to
actually
implement
it
work
with
it,
so
so
that
we
can
bring
give
life
to
the
official
plan
as
the
process
goes
forward.
So
that's
a
big
part
of
the
focus
of
2022
as
well.
E
E
I
know
for
sure
one
of
the
things
that
we've
had
you
know
it's
interesting,
that
the
high-rise
projects
always
make
the
newspaper
as
the
is
the
headline
stories
about
what
planning
committee
is
talking
about,
but
the
highest
number
of
complaints
we
get
are
actually
about
low-rise
development
and
the
quality
of
low-rise
development,
and
it's
a
very
erratic.
We've
got
some
really
good
players
in
town
who
do
really
nice
work
and
we've
got
some
people
in
town
who
I
could
use
words
that
my
mother
wouldn't
approve
to
describe
them.
E
So
you
know
we're
trying
to
try
to
you
know
it's
hard
to
regulate
something
to
the
worst
offender,
but
we
are
trying
to
improve
our
design
guidelines
so
that
people
know
a
better
handle
on
what
we're
expecting
so
they're,
really
real
life
issues
that
came
up
in
the
official
plan.
Discussions
such
as
you
know
the
how
the
front
of
buildings
relate
to
the
street
room
for
trees.
How
sidewalks
play
into
this?
How
front
yard
parking
plays
into
this,
and
you
know
we
have
existing
urban
design
guidelines?
E
E
Excuse
me
on
the
zoning
bylaw
that
will
cause
them
to
be
further
updated
and
we
need
to
do
more
work
on
this,
because
you
know
we
really
do
feel
that
a
very
large
proportion
of
of
the
growth
in
the
infill
will
be
actually
in
a
low
rise
form,
and
that
has
to
be
done
better.
That's
something
we
want
to
strive
for
and,
as
I
said,
I
don't
want
to.
You
paint
everybody
with
the
same
brush.
There
are
some
beautiful
projects.
E
E
We've
actually
managed
to
get
senior
government
funding
for
a
public
realm
implementation
in
stittsville
for
parcc.
We
are
doing
updated
heritage
studies
in
centertown
and
we
originally
had
it
as
one
project,
but
we've
now
just
broken
into
two,
so
we're
updating
the
byward
market
in
lowertown
west
heritage
conservation
districts.
E
Those
are
all
mandatory
because
when
the
province
passed
bill
108
it
put
a
deadline
on
us
about
replacing
old
heritage
districts
that
were
adopted
by
the
pre-amalgamation
city
of
ottawa
with
modern
ones
that
are
compliant
with
the
new
legislation.
You
know
we
we
managed
to
get
through
the
last
couple
of
years
without
being
challenged,
but
we
are.
We
are
at
risk
if
we
don't
replace
them
as
a
result
of
the
legislative
changes,
so
those
are
high
priorities
for
us.
E
It's
again,
something
that
doesn't
necessarily
affect
you
until
it's
your
front
yard's
dug
up,
but
we
with
the
deployment
rapid
deployment
of
new
fiber
optic
in
many
parts
of
the
city,
and
you
know
the
in
even
5g,
which
is
not
in
the
ground
but
through
other
use
of
other
types
of
utility
structures.
We
have
to
update
all
of
our
agreements
with
the
major
telecommunications
companies.
This
is
federally
regulated.
It's
a
it's,
a
very,
very
narrow
range
of
of
powers.
The
city
has
extremely
narrow.
E
We
can't
deny
access
at
any
point
in
time
to
utilities
and
if
we
try
to,
we
will
be
overruled
by
the
federal
government,
but
we
do
have
arrangements
about
compensation
to
the
city
and
the
rules
about
how
they
dig
up
things
and
and
and
that's
the
sort
of
thing
we're
trying
to
work
through
in
the
next
little
while
and
then
a
fascinating
project.
A
bit
of
a
pep
project
that
I'm
really
interested
in
is
the
the
carlington
neighborhood,
which
is
across
from
the
civic
hospital,
is
one
of
the
first
post-war
mass
housing.
E
Developments
in
all
of
canada
was
veterans,
housing,
it
was
built,
and
people
might
some
people
call
them
victory
houses.
It
was
actually
one
of
the
first
three
in
all
of
canada.
I
don't
think
it
was
the
first,
but
it
may
have
been
the
second
and
we're
doing
a
heritage
review
of
this,
and
it's
got
a
fascinating
history
in
that
area.
And
you
know,
a
lot
of
the
original
character
is
still
there
from
what
was
originally
implemented.
So
we're
looking
at
that
area
very
closely
right
now
as
well.
E
So
that's
the
end
of
the
slides
in
my
presentation
about
really
the
2022
work
plan,
I'm
happy
to
to
just
open
the
conversation.
If
the
chair
allows
to
questions
or
comments
on
the
2022,
but
I'm
also,
you
know
we're
trying
to
frame
our
priorities
for
the
next
term
of
council
and
I
really
would
like
to
hear
what
people
think
and
I
can
wrap
up
with
some
of
the
things
in
our
own
mind.
But
I
really
wanna,
I
don't.
I
don't
wanna.
E
A
Absolutely
thanks
for
that
steve.
So
now
is
the
time
for
questions
from
members
of
the
committee
and,
as
I
mentioned,
the
starts
of
charmaine
forge
and
john
buck
are
also
here
for
for
any
questions
that
you
might
have
and
feel
free
to.
If
you
want
to
touch
on
on
what
was
just
presented,
the
2022
work
plan,
but
also
again
looking
ahead
forward
to
the
next
german
council
and
what
we
should
be
focused
on,
not
me,
but
the
city
when
they
move
on
david
renfrow.
F
Thank
you
chair,
mr
willis.
Thank
you
for
joining
tonight,
we're
all
very
fortunate
to
have
you
come
in
and
speak
to
us
on
behalf
of
goba.
You
know,
I've
said
it
to
a
few
of
your
staff
members
and-
and
thank
you,
you
know
in
the
middle
of
a
pandemic,
to
have
record
numbers
of
permits,
record
numbers
of
planning
files,
we're
really
fortunate
to
have
your
team
and
to
have
you
all
going
at
such
a
consistent
and
back-breaking
level
as
as
a
city
we're
very
fortunate.
F
I
know
for
our
industry
we're
very
grateful
and
thank
you,
and
you
know
you
know
me
and
I've
been
very
critical
of
of
of
the
timing
on
development
applications,
but
but
I
I
also
want
to
call
a
spade
a
spade,
like
I've
had
some
tremendous
files
personally
for
clients
in
the
last
in
the
last
12
months,
so
whatever
you're
doing,
I
think
it's
it's
working.
I
think
I
think
yeah
just
from
the
association.
Thank
you
so
much.
I
really
really
appreciate
it.
F
I
I
have
a
lot
of
thoughts
and
I
don't
want
to
take
up
everyone's
bandwidth
here,
but
as
far
as
the
2022
work
plan,
I
have
a
few
questions.
The
first
one
is,
you
mentioned:
there's
going
to
be
a
joint
arach
planning
committee
meeting
on
april
22nd.
Do
you
have
any
indication
on
when
the
ministry
will
be
providing
the
official
plan
recommendations?
E
E
I
wasn't
here
the
last
time
so
tip
mark
is
the
my
main
source
of
information
about
what
happened
last
time.
For
those
of
you
don't
know,
tim
mark
is
our
municipal
lawyer
and
often
like
to
say
I
have
he's
one
of
the
very
best
in
all
of
ontario,
we're
very
lucky
to
have
him.
He
works
very,
very
hard
to
represent
council's
positions
whenever
there's
appeals.
So
you
know
if
you've
ever
met
tim
timmy's,
a
very
humble
man
and
probably
would
be
frustrated
that
I'm
talking
about
him
right
now,
but
he
he
actually
is.
E
You
know
an
expert
last
time
the
minister
basically
listed
a
siri,
they
would
submit
to
us
a
series
of
topics
that
they
were
going
to
change.
If
we
didn't
change
on
our
own,
basically,
that's
the
way
it
would
have
worked.
That's
the
easiest
way
to
explain
it
and
so
gave
council
the
opportunity
to
take
a
position
on
on
the
approval
under
the
new
legislation.
The
minister
just
approves
or
not,
and
the
minister
can
also
just
modify
without
even
asking
council's
permission.
E
So
that's
the
way
the
new
work
so
we're
going
to
get
a
notice
of
decision.
We're
not
going
to
get
a
draft
decision,
we're
not
going
to
get
things
like.
We
would
have
got
in
the
past
the
minister's
just
going
to
say
here.
It
is
so
whether
the
ministry,
you
know,
and
ministry
staff,
in
all
fairness
to
them,
they're
in
the
middle
of
their
approvals
process
and
they're,
not
showing
us
all
their
cards.
E
Nor
do
I,
when
I'm
now,
when
we're
in
the
middle
of
a
process
we're
trying
to
develop
our
position,
but
ultimately
the
minister
will
it'll
just
be
we'll
get
a
note
of
a
decision.
So
all
indications
are
that
we're
it's
in
the
next
I'd
say
it's
the
beginning
of
march.
It
wouldn't
be
surprised
if
we
see
it
before
the
end
of
april.
I
really
wouldn't,
but
it's
in
the
ministry.
E
F
You
I
just
wanted
for
the
2022,
the
housing
affordability
task
force
report
came
out.
I
know
I
know
it's
going
to
plan
a
committee
on
march
10th,
whatever
the
end
result
is
of
that,
I
understand.
There's
rumors
that
premier
ford
is
going
to
put
some
of
the
recommendations
in
the
legislation
in
in
march
and
whatever
that
end
result
is
whatever
that
is.
F
I
love
to
see
on
the
2022
work
plan
that
we
have
some
type
of
monitor
monitoring
mechanism
put
together
that,
of
course,
the
goba
is
happy
to
assist
with
just
to
try
to
continue
to
work
on
land
supply
and
trying
to
help
balance
out
the
imbalance.
That's
happening
between
supply
and
demand
of
of
land.
So
we
we
as
an
association.
We
we
think
housing.
Affordability
is
going
to
be
the
biggest
election
issue
for
the
province
and
for
the
local
election.
F
The
way
my
understanding
the
current
schedule
is,
the
tmp
is
actually
not
going
to
be
finalized
until
after
the
dc,
bylaw
has
to
be
updated.
So
so
it's
very
critical
for
for
all
of
us
for
for
the
whole
city
that
that
we
actually
have
the
tmp
finalized
before
the
dc
bylaw
is
finalized.
So,
as
we
look
at
2023
for
sure
the
dc
bylaw
is
a
critical
item.
F
I
I
believe,
has
to
be
finalized
by
february
2024,
and
I
also
understand
that
the
imp
needs
to
be
for
anyone
who
doesn't
know
the
imp
is
the
infrastructure
master
plan,
the
tnp's,
the
transportation
master
plan,
both
of
those
elements
are
going
to
feed
into
the
dc
bylaw,
and
we
strongly
want
to
advocate
that
those
should
be
on
the
2023
work
plan.
Global
would
also
like
to
see
the
building
better,
smarter
suburbs
to
have
a
refresher
done
in
2023.
F
right
now.
That
was
a
policy
that
was
put
forward
four
or
five
years
ago.
It
did
make
a
significant
impact
on
on
the
efficiency
of
of
lands,
suburban
lands
and
we'd
like
to
just
have
a
refresher
of
that.
Just
to
make
sure
that
a
lot
of
the
new
policy
that's
come
forward
in
the
last
two
years
is
reflected
in
the
bbss.
You
know
that's
traffic
coming
measures,
roundabouts,
utility
requirements,
we're
we're
seeing
a
bit
of
planning
approval
creep
happening
where
I'll
just
say
that
you
know
transport.
F
Transpo
comes
back
at
the
last
minute
and
says
we
need
a
you
know:
a
bus,
a
bus
exit
or
a
bus
stop,
and
if
there's
a
way,
we
can
control
that
better
it.
I
think,
it'll
help
the
the
timing
of
an
approval
process
and
again
we're
happy
to
help
through
that
entire
process-
and
you
know,
I
think
the
last
thing
we'd
love
to
see
in
2023
is-
is
a
way
to
monitor
the
objectives
of
the
official
plan.
F
So
we
all
know
that
I
believe
we
all
know
that
there's
a
target
of
60
intensification
in
the
official
plan
and
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
achieving
those
goals.
So
so
we
have
to
as
a
city
we
all
of
us
on
the
screen
and
all
of
our
colleagues
we
have
to.
We
have
to
help
the
city
achieve
60.
We
have
to
do
that
through
missing
middle
missing,
mill,
intensification.
F
We
have
to
do
that
with
the
zoning
bylaw
and
and
we
have
to
find
a
way
to
get
more
urban
infill,
whether
that's
as
of
right
or
through
a
planning
process
and
the
repercussions.
If
we
don't
is,
it
means
we.
We
have
to
have
more
suburban
land
which
does
not
align
with
some
of
the
climate
goals,
so
these
are.
These
are
just
sorry.
This
is
a
bit
of
a
brain
dump,
I'm
happy
to
articulate
or
clarify
anything.
E
Yeah
I'll
do
a
really
quick
response,
because
just
still
want
to
give
out
all
of
the
committee
members
a
chance
to
to
speak,
but
really
quickly.
A
couple
things
monitoring
is
a
really
big
part
of
what
we're
trying
to
figure
out
the
new
official
plan,
and
again
it
was
something
that
was
discussed
during
the
approval.
E
Trying
to
get
better
data,
some
of
it-
you
know
it's-
I'm
gonna
have
to
have
a
serious
discussion
with
council
about
how
we
how
we
set
that
up
and
resource
that,
but
we
we
have
some
ambitions
of
our
own
on
this
housing.
Affordability
task
force,
I'm
hearing
the
same
rumors
that
there
will
be
legislation
in
march
coming
from
the
province
that
don't
know.
What's
in
it
our
report
by
the
way,
if
any
of
you
are
interested
is
alive.
E
Now
you
can
see
what
our
recommendation
on
the
city's
position
is
on
the
housing,
affordability,
task
force
and
we'll
be
going
to
committee
next
week
on
that
building.
Better
smarter
suburbs
is
definitely
on
the
refresh
list,
something
to
look
at
and
and
which
infrastructure
master
plan
is
very
much
on
track,
a
little
slight
delay.
But
it's
it's
very
much
on
the
timeline.
E
As
we
originally
said,
transportation
master
plan
we're
struggling
right
now,
because
the
the
length
of
the
pandemic
and
the
implications
on
the
broader
transportation
network
makes
it
really
hard
for
us
to
figure
out
how
we
start
and
do
a
measurement
like.
When
do
we
know
the
traffic's
back
to
normal
quote-unquote
and
what
is
normal
to
in
order
to
do
a
baseline
measurement
to
know
how
the
new
plan
is
actually
going
to
work?
E
I
mean
we're
we're
still
in
a
lot
of
uncertainty
on
that
I'd,
love
to
believe
that
by
september,
we'll
know
what
new
normal
looks
like.
It
won't
be
the
same
as
what
it
was
going
in,
but
I
hope
we
were
there,
but
you
know
we
still
have
major
employers
in
the
city
that
don't
have
their
staff
going
in
to
the
office
at
all
and
some
significant.
I
think
permanent
changes
to
patterns
have
happened
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic.
E
So
it's
a
tough
one
and
and
also
we'll
see
the
priorities
of
the
new
council
too.
So
we're
gonna.
We've
decided
to
put
everything
on
pause
right
now
and
then
come
back
early
in
the
next
term
of
council,
with
our
policy
report
and
and
really
a
kind
of
a
refresh
work
plan
based
on
where
we're
at
then,
because
I
think
it's
very
very
you
know
we
were
going
to
go,
live
with
the
consultations
on
the
policy
part
of
the
tmp.
E
But
then
it
was
right
in
the
middle
of
the
protests
and
we
decided
the
city's
not
a
good,
not
fair,
to
actually
have
that
consultation
at
that
point
in
time.
So
now
we're
looking
at
like,
let's
just
take
a
step
back,
we'll
continue
to
collect
input
based
on
the
online
parameters,
but
we'll
go
back
out
and
consult
them
in
the
new
year,
get
the
policy
work
done
and
then
figure
out
exactly
what
the
trajectory
is.
E
B
I
will
make
a
comment,
and
just
in
the
sense
that
I
I
noticed,
I've
been
always
looking
through
these
presentations
of
where
long-term
growth
and
sustainability,
ecology
and
climate
kind
of
fit
in
as
kind
of
a
major
pillar,
let's
say
of
how
the
city
structures
itself
and
structures
its
business
and
I'm
struggling
to
see
that
show
up
in
a
lot
of
these
presentations
it
does
like.
I,
I
know
that
it
was.
It
was
referenced.
B
You
know
the
climate
change
master
plan
as
part
of
the
2022
goals
for
department
of
economic
and
long-term
planning,
but
I
somehow
feel
like
it'd,
be
great
to
know.
Where
else
this
I
mean
this
is
a
topic,
and
this
is
a
subject
that
crosses
all
departments.
It's
part
of
building
code,
it's
part
of
planning,
it's
part
of
urban
urban
design,
and
it
really,
you
know,
part
of
economics.
B
Obviously
so
I
wonder
if
there's
any
kind
of
talk
amongst
the
city
of
really
developing
it
and
its
own
department,
so
that
it's
it's
a
it's
a
topic
that
can
become
an
umbrella
to,
or
you
know,
really
span
and
branch
into
a
lot
of
the
other
affairs
of
city.
But
I
don't
know
is
that
is
that
something
that
you
have
on
your
plate
for
the
next
year?
Is
this
under
discussion
or
debate.
E
So
one
of
the
reasons
why
I
don't
talk
so
much
about
this
is
it
goes
back
to
our
corporate
governance.
The
environment
committee
has
the
standing
for
all
of
the
climate
change
related
issues,
and
so
this
committee
isn't
linked
to
it's
a
corporate
governance
thing.
It's
a
thing
that
chairman,
I'm
sure
would
want
to
talk
about
for
next
term
of
counsel,
but
I
did
bring
some
notes
because
I
knew
this
question
was
going
to
come
up,
even
though
it's
not
directly
within
the
scope
of
your
mandate.
E
So
I
can
give
you
the
22
2022
work
plan
in
terms
of
climate
change
initiatives
and
then
I'll
answer
your
question
about
how
we're
corporately
arranged
so
right.
Now
we
we
passed
the
climate
change
master
plan
strategy.
We
have
a
number
of
programs
underway.
We
have
the
better
homes
ottawa
loan
program,
which
I
signed.
The
very
first
homeowner
got
their
agreement
signed
today.
I
actually
really
pleased
we
got
that.
E
That's
a
really
big
program
that
we're
doing
the
building
better
building
a
better,
the
better
buildings,
auto
west
strategy
and
the
high
performance
development
standards
are
going
to
planning
committee
next
week.
We
have
a
municipal
renewal
and
retrofit
program
for
energy,
retrofit
and
civic
buildings.
That's
that's!
Taking
off
and
being
framed.
E
We
have
a
corporate
electric
vehicle
policy,
so
we're
pushing
more
and
more
towards
the
electric
fleet,
electrification
of
our
own
fleet,
which
is
easy
to
do
for
light
duty
vehicles,
but
we're
trying
to
pilot
into
medium
duty
vehicles
now
and
then
you
know,
there's
certain
things
like
snow
plows
and
fire
trucks
and
ambulances
that
we're
gonna.
I
don't
know
how
to
answer
that
question.
I'm
not
the
expert
on
that,
but
those
are
hard
ones
to
do.
E
If
you
went
down
the
road
but
we're
looking
at,
for
example,
my
john
staff,
who
do
inspections
on
construction
sites,
we're
looking
at
piloting
some
electric
vehicles
in
medium
duty,
the
types
of
things
that
have
to
be
able
to
drive
construction
seconds.
So
this
is
a
new
thing
for
us
we're
working
into
that
space.
We
I
talked
about
the
climate
resiliency
strategy.
E
E
We
don't
know
exactly
how
they're
going
to
land,
but
they
will
be
big
for
us,
we're
looking
at
climate
budget
for
the
city,
which
is
actually
reporting
how
every
department
actually
what
it
does
in
terms
of
its
own
climate
ghg
emissions
and
what
each
department
is
actually
doing
in
their
strategy
to
to
to
manage
that.
So
we
were
going
to
pilot
it
in
our
department
in
ottawa,
public
health
two
years
ago,
then
a
pandemic
hit.
So
luckily
we
actually
in
the
meantime,
managed
to
find
a
way
of
actually
reporting
it
corporate
wide.
E
So
we're
working
on
that
now
internally
and
then
each
department
does
it-
and
you
know
way
it's
been
within
the
city
right
now
is
our
department
has
had
the
lead
on
the
on
the
framework
plan.
But
now
it's
some
may
sound
strange,
but
we're
now
trying
to
get
champions
and
people
designated
with
each
individual
department
so
that
each
department
will
then
execute
and
deliver
on
their
own
and
then
have
a
corporate
coordination
through
the
corporate
energy
office,
perhaps
or
some
other
vehicle.
E
Like
an
interdepartmental
group,
you
know
it's,
it's
creating
new
departments
is
actually
really
hard
and
we
don't
do
it
that
often
but
having
the
interdepartmental
coordination
gets
it
exactly
the
point
you're
making
it
has
to
happen.
It
has
to
be
corporate
and
that's
what
we're
trying
to
work
on
right
now,
as
we
have
a
brand
new
corporate-
and
we
have
it's
only
about
a
two
years
old,
a
new
corporate
energy
office
that
actually
measures
what
we're
spending
on
energy.
E
A
E
And
on
the
ecology
side,
just
you
mentioned
the
ecology
side.
I
should
have
nick
stoh
here
and
and
actually
chair.
Maybe
we
have
nikki
and
as
a
guest
speaker
in
the
next
session,
just
to
talk
about
some
of
the
things
we're
doing
on
the
ecological
front,
I
mean
I
can't
I
can't
begin
to
be
as
eloquent
as
nick
is
on
that,
and
he
and
his
team
do
a
lot
of
work.
We've
we've
done
an
enormous
amount
of
work
on
the
forestry
side
of
files.
E
We
don't
have
as
much
luck
yet
as
I
want,
but
we've
had
so
many
wins
in
the
last
year
that
in
previous
years
we
would
never
had,
because
this
team
is
working
extremely
hard
and
I'm
really
impressed
with
some
of
the
sites
we've
got
redesigns
on
to
save
trees
more
than
it
I'm
we're
not
where
I
want
to
be
yet,
but
boy
we're
a
lot
further
than
we
were.
So
that's
still
a
high
priority.
For
me,
it's
a
it's
a
very
personal
concern
for
me
to
try
to
do
more
on
that
front.
B
B
We
look
at
a
lot
of
the
desires
for
deep
energy
kind
of
studies,
deep
energy,
retrofits
and
and
all
the
staging
and
all
the
analysis,
that's
going
to
go,
have
to
happen
before
any
actions
taken
and
we're.
Looking
at
things
that
you
know,
targets
for
2040,
it's
2022
and
there's
not
to
me
some
of
the
some
of
this.
The
precursors
to
the
action
that
are
happening
right
now
are
not
happening
fast
enough.
There's
not
enough
of
them,
and
the
20
40
targets
are
looking.
B
E
Yeah
I'll
try
to
really
just
wrap
up
really
quickly
so
as
it
relates
to
private
development,
we're
always
limited
by
the
powers.
The
province
gives
us
under
legislation.
How
much
we
can
actually
regulate,
and
you
know
the
province
does
not
regulate
anything
that
happens
within
the
walls
of
a
building.
It's
really
only
on
the
outside
of
a
building.
E
We
have
any
powers,
so
you
know
the
building
code
upgrades
are
going
to
be
really
really
critical
to
see
some
of
the
things
we
we
really
want
to
see
happen
on
the
private
development
side,
as
it
relates
to
the
municipal
building
stock,
where
lots
of
good
internal
discussions
going.
You
know,
unlike
the
federal
government,
we
can't
shut
entire
buildings
down
and
then
do
a
deep
retrofit
from
others.
The
types
of
services
we
have
you
know
are
quite
continuous
and
a
lot
of
communities
are
very,
very
dependent
on
those
services.
E
So
it's
actually
a
lot
harder
for
us
to
do
deeper
energy
retrofits
for
an
entire
building
at
once,
so
we're
dealing
with
it
in
segments
and
improvements,
and
it's
not
ideal,
but
it
is
like
you
know.
We
can't
shut
down
a
fire
station,
we
can't
shut
down
an
ambulance
post.
We
can't
shut
down
a
rec
center
or
a
pool
for
these
long
retrofits.
It's
it
causes
a
lot
of
community
pain.
When
we
do
you
know
even
you
know
so
we're
trying
to
hack
that
problem.
E
I
wish
I
had
a
better
answer
for
this,
but
I
know
that
there's
not
a
single
building
project
happens
where
we
don't
have
an
internal
energy
team.
Look
at
what
are
all
the
opportunities
when
something's
opened
up
to
go
in
and
make
improvements
that
actually
happens
on
every
project
that
have
a
building
site.
So
it's
just
a
question
of
how
can
we?
How
can
we
leverage
it
out
too
as
well?
E
A
G
Steve
for
our
next
presentation,
I
could
tell
by
just
the
way
you
were
talking
and
how
proud
you
are
of
the
work
that
was
done
by
your
team
during
the
pandemic
and
how
enthusiastic
you
are
going
forward.
So
thank
you
for
for
that
and
for
on
to
your
team.
I
have
two
just
two
topics
that
are
that
are
small
in
nature.
G
You
talked
about
the
digital
3d
modeling
and
I'm
wondering
whether
you
plan
to
use
that
not
only
for
the
planning
purposes
but
also
for
evaluations
by
developers,
particularly
the
problems
that
you
you
talked
about
with
regards
to
the
low
rise.
Is
this
part
of
the
planning,
and
do
you
see
that
you
know
being
eliminating
tomorrow
as
much
as
one
can
with
regards
to
some
of
the
the
challenges
you
face
with
the
developers.
E
Yeah,
it's
a
good
question
on
the
low
rise,
because
you
know
we
tend
to
deal
with
a
lot
of
smaller
players
and
not
very
sophisticated
players.
So
you
know,
I
think,
the
role
that
we
see
is
we're
getting
the
digital
model
built
we're
going
to
use
it
first
in
our
own
secondary
planning
projects.
Much
you
know,
I
carolyn
knows
how
hard
peter
giles
worked
on
the
bank
street
hiking
character,
study
using
sketchup
and
peter
put
lots
of
personal
hours
in
just
to
make
that
a
very
good
visual
tool.
E
This
thing
will
take
it
to
a
whole
new
level.
If
we
had
this
tool
in
place,
it
would
have
made
that
work
a
lot
easier
and
then
the
we
see
it
then
being
applied
to
major.
You
know
major.
You
know
redevelopment
of
a
westgate
mall
type
project,
just
something
on
the
big
scale.
How
far
I
can
roll
it
down.
I
don't
know
yet,
but
we
kind
of
have
a
staged
play
out
of
how
we're
going
to
work
with
this
too.
It's
I'd
love
to
get
to
that
stage.
G
E
C
Sure,
thank
you
thanks
steve
and
thank
you
for
the
question
good
evening.
Everyone.
Yes,
I
am
looking
into
it
and
I
can't
speak
about
committee
and
counsel
how
they
will
be
continue
to
function.
I
can
speak
about
our
development
application
meetings,
policy
meetings,
so
I
am
doing
a
business
case
right
now
for
you're,
absolutely
right
tom.
It's
it's
convenient
for
I
for
residents,
I've
been
advised
and
also
for
it
saves
a
real
cost
reduction
in
staff
overtime.
C
In
renting
a
hall
you
need
someone
to
get
legit,
it's
all
of
those
pieces
and
mentioning
about
climate
change,
everyone
driving
into
the
car
to
go
to
some
one
location
as
well.
So
absolutely
looking
into
that
and
doing
a
case,
so
we
continue
to
do
it
and
also
we
have
to
ensure
that
the
the
legislation
allows
us
to
do
it
in
the
planning
act
that
it
allows
us
to
continue
with
the
virtual
world,
because
that
was
something
that
was
when
we
first
happened
to
pandemic.
C
E
Yeah
and
that's
very
much
out
of
the
scope
of
our
department,
we
have
a
separate
department,
the
city
called
innovative
client
services
and
they're.
The
group
that
runs
311
a
lot
of
the
information
that
you
get
online
as
well.
They
are
looking
at
I'm
sure,
they're
looking
at
things
like
that,
but
I
really
don't
know
where
they're
at
and
I'm
really
completely
unqualified.
C
Hi,
thank
you
very
much
for
your
comprehensive
update.
I
had
two
questions.
The
first
was
you
mentioned
a
climate
change
resiliency
plan,
and
I
wanted
to
understand
what
steps
have
been
taken
to
integrate,
that
into
your
infrastructure
plan
or
open
space
urban
design
plans
with
both
new
development,
as
well
as
in
infill
development.
Thinking
about
the
idea
that
these
can
be
at
once
integrative
and
ecologically
performative,
and
the
second
question
I
believe,
court.
I
I
our
last
meeting
in
november
mentioned
that
there
were,
I
think,
a
few
design
excellence
competitions.
C
What
are
the
opportunities
for
you
know,
implementing
best-case
practices
and,
let's
say
stormwater
management
or
ecological
planning
in
both
open
space
design,
urban
design,
layered
with
achieving
climate
resiliency,
and
I
use
as
an
example
the
toronto
waterfront.
That's
doing
that
right
now
or
waterfront
toronto
yeah.
E
The
and
I'm
not
the
expert
to
go
through
that,
but
I
can
probably
again
find
some
more
information
for
you,
the
the
climate
resiliency
plan.
We
know
we
are.
We
have
a
lot
of
vulnerable
infrastructure
with
climate
change,
I
mean
think
about
our
water
supply
system
and
where,
where
our
plants,
you
know
inevitably
are
located
on
river
fronts,
the
two
major
floods
we've
had
in
the
last
number
of
years
did
show
some
of
the
issues
there.
E
A
E
E
So
definitely
things
we're
trying
to
do
in
terms
of
design
competitions.
We
were
looking
at
a
joint
design,
competition
for
the
ncc
on
a
certain
personal
land,
but
I
can
tell
you:
what's
happened
in
the
last
couple
months
has
changed
what
we're
doing
on
that
and
that
that's
on
hold,
because
you
know,
there's
a
there's,
a
broader
discussion
going
on
with
the
government
of
canada
about
who
is
responsible
for
what
so
that
I
think
that's
what
court
was
alluding
to
at
the
last
meeting
for
now.
E
E
H
H
I
also
want
to
say
that
it's
a
relief
to
see
that
try
to
integrate
the
public
and
the
government
like
we
are
doing
now
to
reach
a
better
vision
of
the
process.
It's
good.
I
think
that
this
type
of
committee
are
great
and
it's
always
a
way
to
improve
the
communication
and
the
process,
but
I
think
it's
a
good
beginning
talking
about
the
green
part.
H
I
agree
with
everything
that
everyone
was
saying.
I
think
that
the
measure
needs
to
be
done
more
urgently,
like
help
to
improve
to
the
homeowners
and
the
developers
to
accelerate
the
implementation
of
a
more
energy
efficient
construction,
for
example,
not
allowing
so
many
square
meters
of
asphalt
roof
to
replace
previously
green
space,
like
we
had
here
in
berghevan
and
manotique
big
buildings,
big
asheville,
roof
forced
them
to
put
green
roof
because
that
were
green
space
with
oxygen
and
they
were
absorbing
water.
H
E
Yeah
thanks
very
much
I
mean
I
know
the
green
roof
issue
is,
is
part
of
we're
doing
more
work
on
it?
It's
it's
easier
in
the
residential
sector
than
in
the
industrial
commercial
sector,
but
it's
certainly
something
we're
trying
to
make
some
progress
on,
because
I
agree.
There's
a
lot
of
room
for
improvement.
D
Great
thank
you
and
thank
you
very
much
steve
for
your
for
being
here
this
evening.
Your
your
time
is
is
extremely
valuable,
goes
without
saying
so,
really
appreciate
you
coming
here
and
speaking
to
us
this
evening.
Just
to
pick
up
briefly
on
the
comment
you
may
you
were
talking
about
the
the
3d
modeling.
You
mentioned
united
conversation
about
that
over.
You
know
again
just
to
reinforce
that
yes
goes
without
saying,
and
I've
said
it
before.
D
I
said
at
planning
committee
how
much
I
appreciated
the
work
that
peter
giles
and
colleagues
on
your
planning
department
did
on
the
bank
street
study,
but
what
I
would
say.
Yes,
we
did
some
modeling
there,
but
that
the
modeling
that
was
done
by
the
city,
I
don't
believe
was
was
the
piece
that
was
that
made
this
soup.
D
You
know
the
big
contribution,
I
think
we
were
using
sketchup
or
he
was
using
sketchup
and
if
I'm
not
mistaken
at
that
point
it
was
a
version
of
sketchup
that
you
know
the
license
expired
halfway
through,
so
we
didn't
no
longer
had
access
to
and
I'm
not
saying
that
I'm
not
saying
that
to
throw
stones.
I'm
just
saying:
we've
gotta
up
our
game,
I'd
be
interested
muhammad.
D
You
know
to
hear
from
you
how
eddies
cora's
comments
alluded
to
you
know
just
now,
I'm
I
can
only
imagine
that
those
tools
are
just
becoming
standard
practice,
perhaps,
as
you
say
too
expensive,
for
you
know
a
very
small
developer,
who's
doing
a
you
know,
knocking
down
something
and
putting
up
a
you
know
a
duplex
or
something
like
that,
but
for
anything,
that's
going
on.
Certainly
anything
that
goes
to
udrp
anything
that
goes
on
a
main
street.
Anything
that
goes
with
anything
of
any.
You
know
real
substance.
D
I
just
can't
imagine
why
we're
not
going
there
right
now
and
saying
we've
got
to
have.
We've
got
to
have
that.
We've
got
to
see
how
these
buildings
are
going
to
land.
We're
talking
a
lot
about
upping
our
game
in
terms
of
urban
design.
I
would
just
really
strongly
encourage
a
male
nips
unless
I'm
mistaken
about
the
practicality
of
that.
I
just
think
we
need
to
go
there
sooner
rather
than
later,
so
anyway,
so
that
that
was
one
thing.
D
You
can't
model
everything
in
detail,
but
I
think
for
some
of
the
big
questions
that
I
mentioned
it
before.
How
do
we
intensify
at
the
same
time
that
we
grow
our
urban
canopy?
It
you
mentioned
the
word
luck.
I
think
you
used
to
work
twice
earlier
when
you
were
talking
about
saving
trees.
I
hate
to
think
that
it's
luck,
that's
good!
That's
gonna
get
us
there
and
I
don't
think
you
meant
that
I
mean
well.
Maybe
you
did.
I
don't
know,
but
I
can't
think
that
that's
that's
our
strategy.
D
Luck
cannot
be
part
of
our
strategy.
I
mean
I'll,
take
luck,
sure,
but
you
know
as
a
bonus,
but
that
just
simply
can't
be
our
strategy.
We've
got
to
figure
out
how
to
make
both
of
those
things
work
and
the
only
way.
In
my
mind,
the
only
way
to
do
that
is
to
is
to
to
think
about
those
two
issues
at
the
same
time
and
really
understand
what
a
you
know
how
to
how
do
we
solve
that
issue?
What
are
the,
what
are
the
specifics?
D
You
know
put
the
rhetoric
on
about
saving
trees
and
intensifying
and
land
supplying
all
those
things
and
really
get
down
to
the
the
nuts
and
bolts
of.
How
are
we
going
to
do
that,
so
I
would
encourage
much
greater
emphasis
to
tackling
that.
We,
you
know,
I
think,
if
we
don't
do
that,
we
are,
to
a
certain
extent,
going
to
be
relying
on
unluck
to
figure
out
how
those
pieces
go
go
together,
and
I
guess
and
I'll
so
I'll,
just
finish
off
by
pleading.
D
Once
again,
you
know
for
greater
advance
distribution
of
slide
decks
for
for
this
committee.
This
is
maybe
the
third
time
I've
asked,
or
I've
pointed
out
that
we're
getting
them,
in
my
view,
a
little
bit
too
late
to
really
properly.
I
mean
I
really
appreciate
your
time
tonight
and
going
through
all
this.
D
You
and
you
walked
us
through
significant
detail
but
to
but
to
I
like
to
be
able
to
maybe
I'm
just
a
slow
thinker,
but
I
like
to
be
able
to
have
a
bit
of
time
to
reflect
and
to
think
about
these
things
and
feel
a
bit
more
prepared
and
coming
to
committee.
So
I
would
really
plead
with
you
to
to
try
and
bring
bring
materials
to
this
committee
earlier
than
what
we're
what
we've
been
seeing,
but.
D
E
Yeah,
just
really
quick,
well
I'll,
we'll
work
with
city
clerk's
office,
they're,
the
ones
do
the
logistics
on
the
timings,
we'll
talk
to
them
about
that
and
material
as
well.
I
know
this
presentation
I
will
I'll
have
to
backtrack
to
find
out
when
you
actually
got
it
because
I
know
we've
had
it
available
for
a
while,
but
there
are
things
like
translation,
other
sorts
of
things
that
come
in
between
the
steps,
so
we
also
have
to
do
accessibility,
checks
and
other
sorts
of
things.
E
So
I
will
have
to
backtrack
on
this,
but
we'll
look
into
that
one
specifically
urban
design.
You
and
I
just
happen
to
agree
with
each
other
again
on
this
issue-
that
I'd
really
want
better
digital
tools
and-
and
I
know
the
type
of
work
that
muhammad's
group,
for
example-
I
know-
is
from
really
well,
I
know
what
they
can
do
and
I
wish
I
could
do
what
his
firm
could
do
and
I'm
trying
to
get
the
tools
in
place.
So
I
mean
in
in
my
dream
situation.
E
You
know
muhammad
calls
me
up
and
says
I'm
representing
a
private
developer.
I
need
to
go
down
the
capture
of
this
area
of
the
city,
so
I
can
insert
my
design
into
this.
Can
you
just
you
know
here,
but
we
like
I'll,
be
fair,
he's
going
to
buy
from
me
the
data
of
the
context,
and
then
he
puts
his
building
in
and
then
then
that
then
the
software
allows
us
both
to
be
able
to
take
a
look
at
this,
and
we
agree
with
you
you
you
had
exactly
the
same.
You
said
exactly.
E
What
I
would
have
said
is
about
where
we
have
to
make
sure
the
types
of
things
that
go
to
urban
design
review
panel,
the
types
of
things
and
major
policy
projects,
those
areas.
I
just
agree
100
with
what
you
said,
and
I
want
to
get
there.
I
just
it's.
It's
we'll
get
there
as
fast
as
we
can,
because,
because
I
just
agree
and
on
the
trees
yeah,
I
think
I
use
the.
If
I
said
luck,
I
probably
meant
that
I've
been
lucky.
I've
been
getting
resources
to
do
this.
E
I
think
I
have
to
thank
councillor
chairmatha
for
his
support
in
getting
us
resources
to
do
more
work
on
this
and
resources
across
this
organization
are
precious
to
get
and
our
department
puts
priority
in
trees
like
the
asks
we
had
in
this
budget
were
in
trees,
and
you
know
you
talk
about
trade-offs.
I
think
this
is
one
of
those
very
valuable
discussions.
When
I
get
into
zoning
in
front
yards
and
trees,
that's
a
real
conversation.
This
city
has
to
have
with
the
community
with
the
development
community.
E
You
know,
I
see
some
beautiful
infield
developments
that
do
a
really
sensitive
job,
and
then
I
see
one's
own
one,
the
other
day,
where
it's
almost
to
the
curb,
no
sidewalk,
no
front
yard
no
tree
and
the
building
is
filled
right
to
the
whatever
the
zoning
envelope
allowed
and
it's
like.
Okay,
you
know,
that's
not
really
what
we
want.
E
You
know
I
realize
that
that's
what's
allowed
under
law
and
the
ontario
laws
are
not
exactly
strong
to
help
us
get
this
stuff,
but
I
think
that's
a
conversation
and
I'm
challenging
my
own
staff
to
think
about
things.
Like
what
are
our
front
yard
rules
because
of
this
problem
being
persistent,
so
you're
right,
I
think
showing
trade-offs
when
we
get
to
those
zone.
Very,
very
specific
zoning
issues
would
be
a
good
way
of
describing
it
and
then
ultimately
we
could
roll
that
out
more
further,
I
mean
just.
E
I
know
it's
not
exactly
what
you
said,
but
one
of
the
controversial
elements
in
next
week's
high
performance
development
guidelines
and
I'll
acknowledge
the
group
that
david's
with
doesn't
agree
with
us
on
is.
We
are
actually
asking
for
energy
modeling
earlier
in
the
development
process
for
projects.
So
that's
I'm
not
going
to
put
david
on
the
spot.
It's
just
a
point
of
disagreement
on
this,
so
it's
great
feel
free,
but
yeah
yeah.
F
Can
I
actually
add
one
thing
carolyn,
I
think
every
every
builder
I
know
is
values
trees.
So
I
think
we
all
goba
all
agrees
to
have
trees
and
I'd
love
to
work
with
the
community
groups
and
with
politicians
with
staff
that,
if
there's
ever
contentious,
trees
like
there
should
be
a
simple
compensation
agreement
that
we
could
all
agree
on
that
I
don't
know
just
I
live
on
roosevelt
avenue
and
it
was
one
huge
tree
that
was
a
huge
issue
and
the
developers
saying
well.
F
Like
we
for
oxygen
for
the
environment
and
aesthetics,
it
looks
good,
so
there
has
to
be
a
way
we
can
find
a
balance
between
where
the
pipes
go
and
to
meet
the
separation
for
those
and
and
where
trees
can
go
like.
Let's
have
that
open
dialogue,
and
I
actually
don't
want
to
challenge
mr
willis
on
high
performance
standards,
but
I
will
say,
energy
modeling,
I'm
happy
to
steve.
I
just
I
just
don't
know
how
it's
going
to
end
for
me.
F
So
you
know
I
will
say:
energy
modeling,
you
can't
you
can't
finalize
enter
energy
modeling
until
you
know
you
know
all
your
utility
requirements,
your
emerge
gas!
Your
all!
Your
hydro
like
where
your
hydro
locations
go
like
I'm
someone
that
builds
high
rise.
I
build
mid
rides
like
I
know
the
process
and
you
you
typically
don't
have
all
those
details
at
site
plan
so
again,
we'll
we'll
find
a
way
to
to
work
together
or
disagree
whatever
it
ends
up
being.
F
We
could
not
even
fundamentally
come
to
the
energy
modeling
until
we
we
figured
out
what
type
of
window
it
was
and
and
and
and
all
the
other
elements,
what
type
of
furnace
system
we
had
and
what
type
of
air
intake
was
was
being
in
to
meet
the
building
code
requirements
because
we
had
to
exceed
the
building
code
by
24
25.
So
I'm
happy
to
work
with
john's
group
and
we'll
find
a
way
john's
heard
or
me
being
vocal
on
this
at
the
steering
committee.
We're
happy
to
work
with
you
guys.
We
just.
B
No,
I
did
not.
I
agreed,
I
think
it's
a
great
step.
I
think
it's
fundamental.
I
think
it's
really
you.
We
need
to
change
the
way
we
move
forward
and
understand
the
economics
of
growth,
and
if
that
means
that
we
have
to
factor
in
these
elements
that
they're
not
afterthoughts
and
which
is
great,
that
it's
becoming
earlier
and
earlier
in
the
process,
we
start
thinking
about
sustainability
from
concept.
Municipalities
should
start
thinking,
you
know
about
that.
B
B
D
Too
much
longer,
so
I
think
all
this
discussion
it
just
reinforces,
in
my
mind
the
importance
of
that
we
don't
just
have
community
groups
and
I'm
here
representing
the
fca,
having
bilateral
conversations
with
planning
or
go
having
bilateral
conversations
with
planning
to
me.
You
need
to
get
all
these
players
together
so
that
we
can
have
real
conversations
and
try
and
crack
these
very
difficult
nuts,
so
that
we
can
makes
make
some
progress.
We,
you
know.
D
I
believe
I
don't
remember
the
details,
but
at
one
point
at
the
there
was
an
addendum
it
had
a
table
and
it
was
comparing
costs
and
had
line
items
of
all
these
all
these
items
and
they
would
have
costed
out
all
these
additional
costs.
Whether
I
went
through-
and
I
said,
yeah
that's
reasonable
or
not
what
it.
I
thought
that
was
super
useful
in
the
sense
that
it
actually
gave
me
insight
into
what
gobi
saw
and
the
specifics
of
what
were
driving
additional
costs
for
suburban
bills.
D
You
know
outside
of
the
the
urban
core
versus
intensification.
It
actually
gave
me
very
specifics
to
say
what
those
what
those
cost
drivers
were,
and
if
you
had
a
I
don't
know
you
probably
had
about
30
line
items
there.
You
could
look
at
that
and
and
zone
in
right
on
what
were
the
most
significant
cost
drivers
and
that
what
that
tells
me
I
immediately
I
go
to
those
and
say:
how
can
we?
D
How
can
we
reduce
those
costs
if,
if
these
are,
if
there
are
five
things
that
are
adding
such
significant
costs
to
the
build-
and
these
are
comments
on
what
the
official
plan
policies
we're
going
to
add
to
your
building
costs,
let's
zone
in
on
those?
What
are
the
biggest
cost
drivers
and
let's
see
what
we
can
do
to
fix
those.
D
C
It
would
be
the
carbon
produced
through
the
extraction,
the
manufacturing
and
the
transportation
of
the
building
materials
and
in
the
short
term,
this
is
a
huge
source
of
carbon
emissions,
so
like
over
12
years,
you're
looking
at
like
a
60
to
75
percent,
especially
with
concrete
as
a
big
construction
tool.
So
I
would
encourage
I'm
wondering
if
that
is
something
that
you
are
looking
at.
C
E
It's
a
very
interesting
point.
I
know
in
terms
of
city
projects,
these
are
conversations
we're
having
and
I'm
really
encouraged
to
see
some
of
the
changes
coming.
The
building
code
john
knows
more
than
I
do
about
mass
trimber
construction
and
and
how
you
know
from
an
embodied
carbon
perspective.
There's
a
lot.
It's
a
lot
better
story
than
some
of
things
are
doing
under
the
planning
act,
there's
actually
a
line
in
the
planning
act.
That
says
we
are
not
allowed
to
tell
anybody
about
what
building
materials
they
use.
E
It's
actually
explicitly
written
in
there
in
the
provincial
legislation.
So
we
have
no
say
in
that
at
all.
It
is
provincially.
It's
really
it's!
It's
linked
back
to
the
extent
that
is
regulated
by
any
government.
The
building
code
has
some
requirements
in
there,
but
we're
actually
prohibited
there's
very
few
places
in
the
planning
that
says
you
can't
municipal,
you
can't,
but
it
actually
under
site
plan.
It
actually
says
that
so
it's
you
know,
there's
a
good
there's,
a
good
and
bad
about
that.
I
mean
what's
good
about,
it
is
architects.
E
Many
of
you
around
here
are
architecture
work
closely.
You
get
to
have
the
creativity,
you're,
designing,
no
city
bureaucrats,
telling
you
what
materials
you
pick,
that's
a
good
thing,
but
on
the
flip
side,
this
issue
of
embodied
carbon
is
a
very
legitimate
issue
and
I
think
the
building
industry,
more
broadly,
is
going
to
have
to
tackle
this
without
local
government
really
driving
the
bus
on
it,
but
not
that
it
isn't
a
legitimate
issue.
I
agree
with
you.
C
Yeah-
and
I
mean
one
thing-
that
I've
seen
other
municipalities
doing
not
necessarily
in
ontario
but
is
starting
to
ask
for
the
amount
of
how
much
with
the
embodied
carbon
be
in
terms
of
that
construction,
not
putting
a
cap
on
it
or
anything,
but
just
starting
to
to
get
people.
Thinking
about
that.
This
is
something
that
needs
to
be
calculated
and
and
known
yeah.
Some.
E
C
Just
to
that
point
I
mean,
I
think
I
mean
I
think
it's
worth
looking
into
implementing
more
performance-based
zoning
or
incentivized
zoning
that
might
address
some
of
the
issues
that
eileen
brought
up,
and
I
and
just
on
the
point.
I
think
that
carolyn
brought
up
about
modeling.
I
I
know
because
I'm
I'm
trained
as
an
urban
designer
and
teacher
from
design,
but
recently
in
2020
attended
an
es3
gis
conference
in
in
toronto,
and
there
is
there
are.
C
E
Yeah
and
actually
you
know
chairman
again-
maybe
a
follow-up
list-
maybe
we
get
randall's
group
someone
from
them
to
come
and
do
a
demonstration
of
some
of
the
things
we're
working
on.
We
actually
have
a
really
great
team
in
our
and
geospatial
and
analytics
group
they've
again
up
their
game.
They
use
a
lot
of
esri
products
right
now
and
they're
testing
a
lot
of
new
things,
not
the
biggest
group.
You
know
for
a
city
our
size
but
and
they're.
E
Also,
like
you
know,
you
would
be,
you
would
be
amazed
at
what
they
get
drawn
into
corporately
they're,
not
just
minded
they're
in
my
department,
but
they're
a
corporate
resource.
So
so
during
the
floods,
for
example,
they
were
doing
live,
geospatial
information
being
provided
to
the
teams
on
the
ground
to
help
them
manage
it,
including
you
know.
Where
are
the
electrical
supply
areas
that
need
to
be
shut
off
all
sorts
of
stuff?
So
it's
a
it's
a
small
but
mighty
team.
You
know
they
do
cool,
really
cool
work.
E
C
A
B
Thank
you
chair,
just
a
very
quick
follow-up
because
I
did
hear
a
few
comments
come
up,
both
david
and
carolyn
kind
of
referring
to
the
affordability
of
you
know
the
affordability
factor,
and
you
know.
Obviously
there
is
you
know,
that's
a
critical.
You
know
critical
part
of
how
we
are
able
to
kind
of
allow
people
to
enjoy
their
en
enjoy.
You
know,
enjoy
living
in
a
city
like
ottawa
with
accessible
spaces
and
also
accessible
ownership
of
homes
or
accessible
rents.
So
that's
kind
of
great
it's
a
great
city
for
that.
B
I
will
just
counterbalance
that
that
there
is
also
kind
of
a
you
know.
We
have
to
balance
quality
with
that
cost.
So
it's
not.
You
know
our
driver
can't
just
be
to
kind
of
reduce
costs,
because
with
that,
inevitably,
when
you're
talking
about
reducing
costs
and
when
you're
talking
about
reducing
times
to
approvals
times
to
construction,
that's
inevitably
going
to
lead
to
the
drop
in
the
third
part
of
the
triangle.
B
Quality
of
these
drops
so,
whether
it's
quality
of
how
the
developments
have
an
impact
on
our
environment
or
how,
like
you,
mentioned,
the
quality
of
urban
infills
that
you
you're,
you're
critical
of
steve.
These
are
you
know
these
are,
I'm
sure,
there's
an
economic.
You
know,
reasoning
for
why
that
building
looks
the
way
it
does.
However,
is
that
what
we
want,
and
so
how
do
we
find
that
balance
and
again
it
just
can't
be
about
cost
all
the
time
it
can't
be
about
speed
all
the
time.
B
I
think
we
have
to
find
a
way
to
play
a
long
game,
and
just
you
know
back
to
eileen's
point
about
embodied
carbon
and
how
how
we
start
to
kind
of
look
at
that.
I
think
it
would
be
through
the
cities
I
mean
it
starts
off,
obviously
federally
provincially
and
then
down
to
the
city,
but
the
city
really
putting
out
guidelines
that
again,
you
know
much,
maybe
potentially
to
the
you
know.
Disappointment
of
david
might
add
another
level
of
complexity
to
project
of
a
certain
scale.
B
A
particular
certain
scale
have
to
meet
certain
benchmarks,
certain
targets
and
meet,
and
you
know
be
able
to
achieve
certification,
and
you
know
you
don't
have
to
look
very
far.
There
are
in
canada.
You
know
very
progressive
municipalities
that
ask
more
of
developments.
Ask
more
of
you,
know:
builders,
city
builders,
to
contribute.
B
B
I
know
that
we're
looking
at
cities
in
europe
that
are
adopting
passive
house
standards,
for
example,
are
really
encouraging
the
use
of
passive
house
certifications
for
projects
above
a
certain
scale,
and
I
think
something
like
that
will
inevitably
lead
to
at
least
a
conversation
and
awareness
once
you
have
supply
once
you
have
demand,
there'll
be
supply
in
the
market
and
these
things
start
to
drop
in
price
expertise
becomes
present,
but
you
know
it's
hard
for
developers
to
take
that
initiative
on
their
own.
People
need
to
know
about
it.
B
For
example,
vancouver
and
correct
me
from
wrong,
but
last
year
as
of
last
year,
new
well
actually
as
of
this
year,
any
new
developments
in
vancouver
residential
developments
cannot
use
gas-fired
appliances.
Just
that's
it.
It's
electric.
From
now
on
carbon
neutral,
you
know
home
heating.
So
that's
something
that
the
city
put
in
place.
B
I'm
sure
there's
there's
a
lot
of
people
who
are
not
happy
because
it
is
driving
potentially
cost,
but
that
is
short
term
we're
talking
about
a
short
term
play
here
at
some
point
that
is
going
to
become
cost
neutral,
but
it's
also
going
to
be
beneficial
to
be
value
added
to
our
overall
sustainable
signals.
I
think
city
really
has
a
crucial
role
to
play,
to
setting
the
benchmark
really
high
and
again
just
playing
the
long
game.
E
Yeah,
I
mean
quickly
going
back
to
there's
a
huge
difference
between
the
laws
in
ontario
and
bc.
Like
enormous
difference,
as
I
said,
I
have
two
in
my
inbox.
I
have
two
lawyers
letters
that
tell
me
we
have
no
powers
to
do
some
of
the
things
that
we're
proposing
to
do
next
week.
Two
different
lawyers,
not
only
don't
think
we
have
any
power
to
do
it.
We
disagree
my
lawyers,
our
lawyers
are
prepared
to
take
them
on
on
some
of
these,
but
we
can
only
go
so
far.
E
We
cannot
control
what
happens
inside
a
building
other
than
as
it
relates
to
building
code,
and
the
building
code
in
ontario
and
john
reminds
me
is
about
safety,
first
and
foremost,
building
safety
and
it's
about
life.
You
know
life
safety
issues
and
you
know
structural
safety
and
all
those
sorts
of
things,
and
there
are
certain
energy
requirements
that
are
in
the
code
that
will
in
in
time,
will
change
and
enhance.
But
you
know
the
building
code
is
a
yes,
no
approval.
It's
you,
you
don't
there's
no,
no
variations
or
discretion
really.
E
Ultimately,
in
this,
it's
it's
very
focused
on.
Are
you
complying
with
the
code
or
not
with
some
variations
of
how
you
get
there?
You
know
the
municipalities
take
a
big
role
in
this
and
we
are
trying
to
push
with
what
powers
we
do
have.
What
we
can
do,
there's
also
another
dynamic,
not
just
law.
It's
also
about
you
know
some
of
those
cities,
so
I
often
get
into
conversations
with
people
just
around
the
dinner
table.
E
E
So
you
know-
and
we
don't
like
to
talk
about
it,
but
it
actually
does
play
out
so
toronto.
You
know
with
property
values
as
high
as
they
are
in
toronto
and
with
the
developers
knowing
they
can
sell
those
units
for
so
much
more
than
they
can.
They
can
be
a
bit
more
generous
than
they're
going
to
be
here,
especially
when
they're,
when
they
have
to
get
support
from
lenders
and
financers
for
their
projects
and
expected
rate
of
return.
So
there's
more
wiggle
room
in
toronto
and
vancouver
david,
my
number's
about
right.
F
No,
so
I
mean
you're
when
you
look
at
it
and
again
sorry
chair,
I'm
going
to
take
a
minute
and
it's
when
you
look
at
a
pro
forma,
I
mean
you
only
have
four
variables:
you
have
the
cost
of
the
land.
You
have
your
soft
cost,
which
is
getting
all
your
approvals,
your
finance
costs.
You
have
your
hard
costs,
which
is
what
steve
just
talked
about,
and
then
an
administration,
okay
and
that's
like
staff.
So
that's
a
pro!
That's
a
pro
forma.
It's
not
rocket
science.
F
So
the
only
variable
that
changes
from
project
to
project
is
your
soft
costs
of
interest.
How
long
it
takes
to
get
the
approvals
and
the
cost
of
the
land.
Like
your
your
administration,
every
developer,
they're
within
one
or
two
percent
of
the
same
administration
costs
and
in
your
hard
costs
to
steve's
point,
it's
concrete's
the
cost
of
concrete
the
cost
of
concrete
it
costs
about
two
by
fours.
F
E
But
I
don't
just
you
know
just
just
to
go
back,
I'm
not
trying
to
debate
mohammed
because
he
unite
his
heart.
You
know
his
heart's
absolutely
in
the
right
place
and
I
agree
with
the
intent
here
and
I
think
you
know
we
are
trying
to
to
do
it.
As
I
said,
we're
we're
using
their
powers-
and
you
know
I
think
groups
like
the
urban
design
review
panel,
bring
a
lot
of
these
questions.
They're,
actually
asking
questions
about
how
what
materials
are
being
used
and
how
to
get
those
quality
issues.
E
F
Yeah
I'll
be
I'll,
be
real,
quick
on
this
chair.
I
know
it's
getting
late
for
everyone.
I
just
wanted
to
mention
what
muhammad
talked
about.
I
think
there's
always
compromises
for
all
of
us
to
find
a
way
to
make
this
work
for
all
parties,
and
one
thing
maybe
steve
I
can
suggest
is
when
the
zoning
bylaw
gets
updated.
F
Maybe
there's
opportunities
with
site
plan
exemption
calgary,
put
out
a
report,
probably
four
or
five
years
ago,
where
they
basically
had
a
development
standard,
call
it
a
zoning
box
and
basically
said:
if
you
achieve
these
basic
zoning
setbacks,
building
height
building
articulation,
we
can
add
energy
efficiency
at
a
certain
level.
You
know
we
could
work
with
john,
like
maybe
it's
10
above
the
building
code
for
energy
efficiency.
Whatever
it
is,
you
know
x,
amount
of
trees
in
the
front
yard,
it's
an
as
of
right
approval.
F
So,
let's
just
say
it's
a
four
plex,
or
maybe
it's
a
six
plex
or
whatever
the
case
you.
If
you
meet
these
check
box,
you
know,
if
you
check
all
these
boxes,
you
achieve
energy
efficiency.
You
have
soft
landscape
in
the
front,
whatever
we
all
want
to
come
up
with
that
checks,
everyone's
boxes,
it's
site
plan
exempt.
Why
that's
a
win
for
all
of
us
is.
F
You
know,
there's
all
these
there's
all
these
things
we
can.
We
can
all
use
our
expertise
and
our
knowledge
to
to
move
it
ahead.
But
what
we
can't
do
is
just
say
add
all
these
extra
things
and
the
average
house
in
ottawa
goes
from
950
to
a
million.
Fifty
like
that.
That
can't
be
the
answer.
It
can't
be
just
add
a
hundred
grand
to
the
average
cost
of
a
house.
So,
let's
find
a
way
like,
like
I
don't
know
it's
through
this
committee
or
through
the
zoning
bylaw,
but
you
know
the
answer.
F
B
Yeah,
just
very
briefly,
just
in
response
to
david,
I
think
it
is
a
very
important
kind
of
you
know
topic
to
be
analyzed,
and
it's
great
that
you
know.
I
think
we
need
to
get
feedback
from
industry
and
feedback
from
the
builders
and
from
the
developers
to
kind
of
really
put
a
value
on
the
aspirations
of
the
city
and
the
aspirations
of
you
know.
What
were
you
know?
So
is
this
and
then,
finally,
ultimately,
the
you
know,
the
judgment
call
who
makes
that
judgment
call
what
something
is
worth.
What
something
you
know.
B
It
is
okay
to
put
to
increase
the
cost
of
homes
by
this,
because
that's
how
much
value
we
put
on
our
you
know
sustainability
in
our
future.
So
that's
I
don't
know
if
one
person
can
make
that
judgment
call,
but
it
is
a
very
important
kind
of
topic
of
debate
and
you
kind
of
have
to
get
feedback
from
you
know.
You
know
real
feedback
like
david's,
getting
values,
costs
and
evaluate
that,
but,
ultimately,
who
makes
that
call
in
the
city
who
who
who
puts
out
these
goals
and
looks
at
these
costs
and
say?
B
E
Yeah
chair,
if
I
may
just
really
quickly
ultimately
answer
that
question
is
council.
That's
that's
the
short
answer
to
that
question,
because
council
picks
the
priorities
we
have
and
we
have
a
number
of
initiatives
that
are
all
driving
costs.
Like
I
mean
it
is
a
little
bit
scary.
I
mean
I
have
two
young
adult
children
and
I
sat
down
last
night.
My
wife
were
talking,
it's
like
they
there's
no
way
they
can
afford
to
buy
my
house.
No,
there
were
no
way
they
could
afford
to
buy
a
house,
probably
within
the
city
of
ottawa.
E
Right
now,
there's
just
like
they're,
even
with
their
there's
no
way
of
aspiring
to
germain's
kids
are
a
little
older
than
mine.
We
have
the
same
conversation.
It's
you
know.
We've
had
an
86
increase
in
housing
prices
in
ottawa
in
two
years,
which
is
just
astounding,
and
I
couldn't
believe
my
neighbor
told
me
about
my
house
what
a
house
someone
of
mine
around
the
block-
and
so
I
was
just
shocked
yesterday.
I
just
don't
even
believe
it
it
it
is.
It
worries
me
a
lot.
E
I
lose
sleep
at
night
over
this
issue
because
I
know
we're
adding
costs
so
where
our
community
benefits
charge
is
going
to
add
costs.
High
performance
development
standards
are
going
to
add
costs,
we're
bringing
in
inclusionary
zoning
we're
going
to
be
releasing
that
framework
within
a
couple
of
weeks,
and
it's
going
to
increase
costs
and
all
these
things
that
are
all
important
social
goods
are
going
to
increase
costs
of
housing,
and
I
can
tell
you
we
struggle
with
it.
It's
it's.
Actually,
it's
hard
not
to
crack
about
the
trade-offs
we
get,
because
it's
not
like.
E
I
disagree
with
muhammad.
You
know
on
the
sustainability
I'm
doing
everything
I
can
that
I
can
afford
to
do
in
my
own
place
probably
could
do
more,
especially
if
the
government
could
help
a
little
bit
if
someone
has
figured
out
how
to
actually
access
those
government
grants.
There's
such
a
confounding
process,
it's
so
hard
to
administer.
E
I
could
use
some
tips
on
that,
but
it's
very
very
difficult
right
now
to
control
a
very
out
of
whack
situation
in
ontario,
and
you
know
what's
driving
that
what's
driving,
that
is
probably
a
population
growth
beyond
anything.
Ontario
thought
it
was
going
to
happen.
The
ministry
of
finance
numbers
were
outstripped.
We
worry
that
what
we
just
passed
in
our
official
plan
that
population
growth
may
exceed
them,
we'll
wait
and
see.
I
don't
know
if
ottawa
was
going
to
go
as
fast.
E
I
know
than
the
toronto
area
they're
definitely
going
to
outstrip
the
population
forecasts.
It's
it's
pretty
well
known
now
that
they're
on
trajectory
for
that,
so
it's
and
what's
driving
that
some
of
that
is
population.
Behaviors
of
the
of
the
people
who
are
here
whether
the
number
of
people
per
household,
the
number
of
kids
people
have.
Those
are
all
numbers:
birth,
death
rates.
Those
are
normal
things,
there's
there's
international
immigration
that
drives
that
number,
which
is
a
significant
number
in
ottawa.
E
Interprovincial
migration
has
been
a
huge
effect
in
ontario,
like
I
think,
no
one
predicted
how
many
people
would
be
moving
to
ontario
from
the
rest
of
canada.
That
has
happened
and
then
there's
other
factors
such
as
financialization
of
housing
project,
and
you
know,
airbnb
effects
and
those
other
sorts
of
things.
E
There's
just
so
many
things
going
on
at
once,
and
we
as
a
municipal
government,
have
to
put
recommendations
from
council
on
how
to
balance
all
these
different
levers
that
are
all
going
on
at
the
same
time
and
cost
is
a
very,
very
big
concern,
but
I
still
want
to
protect
trees.
I
still
want
better
energy
performance
in
buildings.
I
still
want
really
nice
quality
streets
for
people
to
live
in.
I
want
a
variety
of
housing
choices
so
that,
if
you
want
high
density,
you
can
live
in.
E
If
you
want
something
else
you
can
live
in
like
that
is
still
I
mean.
The
official
plan
represents
what
we
want
to
get,
but
we
have
all
of
these.
These
factors
we're
trying
to
do
so
like
I
can
tell
you
that
you
know
the
department
worries
about
all
these
things.
The
question
is:
what
can
we
do
about
it?
Any
given
point
in
time
is:
is
it's
not
always
obvious
so
chair,
I'm
probably
going
way
off
topic
here,
but
I
just
wanted
to
lay
that
out.
It's
we
do
think
about
these
things.
A
A
Obviously
we
have
very
different
communities
that
we
represent
very
different
areas
that
we
live
in,
but-
and
I
recognize
the
immense
privilege
that
I'm
about
to
throw
out
here-
but
you
know
I-
I
live
in
a
million
dollar
home-
that
I
paid
half
a
million
dollars
for
two
years
ago.
You
know
it's
not
it's.
A
It
makes
no
sense
to
me.
I
see
lots
vacant.
Lots
next
to
me,
are
being
sold
for
half
the
price
I
paid
for
my
house
a
vacant
lot
on
land
that
you
can't
build
on
because
without
maybe
100
to
hundred
thousand
dollars
worth
of
fill
to
to
get
you
out
of
a
wet
condition
without
a
constantly
running
stump
up
like
it's.
It
makes
no
sense
to
me
what's
going
on
and
that's
that's
north
korea
you're
still
nowhere
close.
B
A
I
just
muted
myself:
I
accidentally
hit
my
space
bar.
Apparently
that's
an
option
so
the
yeah
we
live
in
north
korea.
You
pay
this
much
money
but
you're.
Nowhere
close
to
the
things
that
you
need
to
live
your
life,
you
still
have
to
drive
everywhere.
There's
not
you
can't
buy
essentials,
I
mean
you.
Can
you
can
go
to
the
mulligans
and
get
alcohol,
which
is
why
most
people
are
in
there
but
the
for
the
most
part
you
you
have
to
go
to
campfield.
A
You
have
to
go
into
barhaven
haven,
romantic
richmond,
but
I
mean
it's
not
necessarily
sustainable
and
it
used
to
be
one
of
the
affordable
places.
Manatee
is
1.2
million
average
home
price.
That's
that's
ridiculous!
At
the
turn
of
the
century,
it
was
that
you
could
buy
a
home
on
west
river
on
the
back
channel
of
the
rideau
river
for
130
000.
A
A
We
don't
have
those
I
mean
the
question
about
who
makes
the
decisions
we
we
often
try
to
find
a
balanced,
a
decision
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
we,
we
know
that
we
have
advocates
that
ask
for
for
more
considerations
when
it
comes
to
building
to
make
things
better
for
the
future,
but
then
we
also
know
that
we
have
the
building
advocates
to
say:
listen,
you
need
to
make
this
easier
for
us.
You
can't
add
red
tape.
A
A
So
it's
yeah,
there's
lots
this
there's
lots
of
play
here
and-
and
I
don't,
this
issue
is
not
going
away
and
it's
not
getting
easier
in
the
next
in
the
next
several
years.
So
good
conversation,
as
always,
though-
and
I
actually
was
thinking
too-
I
mean
steve-
mentioned
the
mention
nick
stowe-
what
he
might
bring
to
a
conversation.
I've
talked
in
the
past
about
about
andrea
flowers
and
and
her
group
with
climate
resiliency.
I
know
that
comes
up
a
lot.
We
don't
have
another
meeting
schedule
until
you
know
the
fall.
A
Okay,
I've
got
you
know.
Other
counselors
are
going
to
be
worried
about
running
for
your
election.
I
don't
have
to
worry
about
that
stuff.
So
I'm
going
to
be
a
lot
of
free
time
coming
in
this
summer,
but
but
yeah.
So
I'd
be
happy
to
do
that
because
I
think
it's.
I
think
it's
good.
I
think
it's
nice
to
be
able
to
get
some
different,
some
different
representatives
here
and
from
the
city
and
talk
about
some
things
and
just
have
that
conversation
so
good,
any
other
questions
for
steve.
B
C
Well,
that
actually
is
a
record
to
the
best
model.
Usually
we
track
around
10
000,
and
so
we
got
we
got
up
close
to
12.
and
you
know
why.
Well
a
lot
of
pool
and
closure
permits
a
lot
of
small
renovation
permits,
people
putting
in
finishing
basements
home
offices
and
the
like,
largely
pandemic
related.
I
would
suspect,
but
you
know,
the
value
is
also
sky
high,
almost
four
billion
dollars.
Again,
I
see
eyes
going
crazy
tower
cranes
all
over
the
place,
so
yeah
yeah
we're
hopping
so
yeah
record
year.
A
A
E
B
A
It's
quite
it's
a
neat
story
that
that
building
tells
the
the
other
thing
is,
I
think
the
stairwell
there's
holes.
If
you
look
in
the
stairwell
that
runs
from
the
next
outside
chambers
there's
holes
through
the
through
the
underside
of
the
stairs,
I
believe
they
line
up
at
the
solstice.
If
I'm
not
mistaken,
yeah
yeah,
it's
quite.
A
A
Okay,
so
we
have
to
receive
the
update
for
information.
Is
the
update
received
on
and
one
great
thank
you
all
so
notice.
The
motion
there's
likely
none
inquiries,
there's
like
none
other
business
is
likely
none.
So
then
there's
just
a
german.
So
our
next
meeting
is
to
be
determined
but,
as
I
said,
I'm
going
to
see
if
we
can
get
together
and
do
something
in
in
june
pick
and
pick
an
evening.