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From YouTube: Planning Committee – September 12, 2019
Description
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
Great
first
of
all,
this
is
a
public
meeting
to
consider
the
proposed
comprehensive
official
plan
and
the
zoning
bylaw
amendments
listed
in
1,
&
5
of
today's
agenda
for
the
items
mentioned.
Only
those
making
all
submission
today
or
written
submissions
before
the
amendments
are
adopted
may
appeal
the
matter
to
the
local
tribunal
board.
In
addition,
the
applicant
may
appeal
the
matter
to
the
local
tribe.
You
know
local
planning
application
tribunal
if
Council
does
not
adopt
the
amendments
within
90
days
of
receipt
of
the
application
for
the
zoning
and
120
days
for
the
Official
Plan
amendment.
A
A
But,
first
of
all,
we'll
start
with
any
declarations
of
interest,
seeing
none
confirmation
of
the
minutes,
August
22nd,
2019
and
minutes,
one
of
the
special
Joint
Committee
on
planning
committee
and
agricultural
Rural
Affairs
dated
August
22nd
2019.
These
received
great
thank
you.
We
do
have
five
items
on
the
agenda.
The
first
one
is
the
citywide
minor
zoning
study
and
zoning
bylaw
amendment
payday
loan
establishments.
We
do
have
some
delegations
I'll
ask:
if
are
these
people
in
favor
or
not,
is
Peter
here
Peter
here,
Peter
great.
A
Are
you
here
to
speak
in
favor
and
do
you
wish
to
speak
today?
Great?
We
have
we
have
Stephanie
Stephanie
Graham
perfect.
Thank
you.
Do
you
wish
to
speak
today
as
well?
Okay,
wonderful
and
Natalie
Carriere.
Do
you
wish
to
speak
as
well
great,
so
we'll
hold
that
item.
Item
number
two
is
the
annual
development
report?
Is
this
item
carried?
Is
it
a
small
question?
It's
a.
B
C
Good
morning,
mr.
chairman,
the
data
from
the
rental
market
survey
is
provided
by
a
Canada,
Mortgage
and
Housing
Corporation,
so
we
are
simply
producing
the
data
that
they
provide
in
their
annual
rental
market
survey.
There
can
be
times
where
their
rental
universe
doesn't
need
or
meet
the
required
minimum
number
of
units
in
order
to
be
statistically
shareable
and
in
those
cases
there
is
data.
Suppression
notes
like
this
one.
B
Thank
you
and
of
quick
comment.
If
I
can
I
noticed,
the
report
mentions
a
22%
increase
in
housing
starts
for
neighboring
municipalities,
a
lot
of
that
coming
from
lanark
and
there's
a
over
a
200
percent,
increasing
Carleton
place.
I,
don't
know
if
those
numbers
how
significant
they
are
in
our
planning
context
in
terms
of
some
of
our
suburban
growth.
But
it's
something
I
would
like
to
follow
up
separately
outside
of
this
meeting
with
staff
and
try
to
understand
get
some
analysis
on
what
that
impact
may
have
in
some
of
our
other
communities
in
our
growth.
A
Noted
so
on
item
number
2.
Is
this
carried
great?
Thank
you.
Item
number
3
designed
neighborhood
collector
streets.
We
have
no
speakers
on
this
item.
Is
this
item
carried?
You
know
what,
if
you
do,
have
quite
I'm
gonna
hold
this
item.
We'll
go
back
to
item
number
three
item
number
four
sites:
a
plant
control
bylaw-
is
this
great,
so
I'll
hold
that
as
well
and
item
number
five.
We
do
have
some
speakers,
three
of
them.
Actually
the
three
are
in
support.
I'll,
ask
Karen
Daly,
you
say
you're
in
support.
A
Okay,
Erin
coffin
are
you
here?
Do
you
feel
a
need
to
speak
today?
If
we
pass
this
item
and
and
Bullock
and
folic
great,
do
you
feel
a
need
to
speak
today?
If
we
pass
this
item
great,
so
we
have
three
support.
Supporters
on
this
item
is
item
number
five
carried
great.
Thank
you
very
much
for
coming
out
today,
item
number
six
appointment
to
the
suburban
panel
of
the
committee
of
adjustment.
As
this
item
carried
great
so
we'll
go
back
to
the
first
item
that
that
was
held.
A
D
A
E
Good
morning,
I'm
working
with
two
remotes,
so
it's
kind
of
interesting
in
in
2018,
the
province
created
the
putting
consumers
first
act
and
within
that
act
they
amended
the
municipal
act
to
grant
additional
authority
to
municipalities
in
respect
of
licensing
payday
loans
and,
in
particular,
to
be
able
to
license
the
location
and
the
number
of
these.
In
terms
of
council
policy.
There
is
a
policy
in
the
human
services
plan
that
essentially
says
that
essentially
says
that
we
identify
the
need
to
protect
vulnerable
populations
from
predatory
practices.
E
The
montréal
Road
Community,
Improvement
Plan,
was
adopted
in
May
2019
and
in
in
that
document,
it
specifically
states
that
payday
loan
establishments
will
not
be
permitted
a
grant
to
locate
on
Montreal
Road
and
in
2018
again
Council
passed
motion
requesting
that
planning
staff
do
a
zoning
study
on
payday
loans,
particularly
because
under
the
Planning
Act
we
can
regulate
the
location.
A
number
of
these
in
is
owning
bylaw,
and
that
within
that
motion,
following
the
zoning
study,
the
council
will
consider
licensing.
E
Currently,
we
have
54
payday
loan
establishments,
which
is
down
from
59
in
2016.
The
trend
is
very
much
downward
and
the
province
has
identified
this.
In
2013
we
had
13th
the
province
had
1,300
payday
loans
and
they're
down
to
760,
so
they
are
trending
downward
the
thing
with
payday
loans.
Is
they
popped
up
very
quickly
and
they
popped
up
in
clusters
around
very
specific
streets,
specific
arteries
that
go
through
neighborhoods
zoned
commercial?
So
we
have,
many
of
them
are
Montreal
Road
in
Ward
12.
E
We
have
many
on
Bank
Street
in
Ward
14
and
we
have
other
ones
on
Merivale,
it's
a
law
and
in
three
on
st.
Joseph's
in
Orleans
we
don't
have
any
payday
loans
that
have
established
in
the
rural
area
in
2017,
Council
adopted
a
zoning
amendment
to
add
the
land-use
term
in
a
definition
for
payday
loan
establishment,
and
at
that
time
they
had
to
add
that
as
a
use
in
zones
and
the
way
they
went
about
doing
it
was
to
allow
the
payday
loan
establishment
anywhere
a
bank
is
permitted.
E
Currently,
payday
loans
are
allowed
and
all
of
the
commercial
and
mixed
use
zones
they're
allowed
in
all
of
the
industrial
zones
as
well
and
they're
also
allowed
in
the
major
institutional
zone.
In
addition,
they're
allowed
in
the
r5
in
the
village
mixed-use
and
in
some
of
the
rural
commercial
sub
zones.
E
When
we
took
when
we
did
the
study,
we
noticed
two
major
land-use
issues
associated
with
payday
loans.
The
first
is
the
proliferation
and
the
clustering
of
these,
and
as
a
result
of
that,
we've
proposed
or
recommending
minimum
separation
distances,
and
there
are
three
of
them,
the
first
being
one
kilometer
between
payday
loan
establishments.
E
We
already
have
that
in
the
zoning
bylaw
for
adult
entertainment,
parlors
we're
also
proposing
five
hundred
meters
from
a
casino
or
a
racetrack,
as
well
as
300
meters
from
any
school
or
post-secondary
instructional
facilities,
and
the
minimum
separation
of
the
schools
is
quite
substantial.
These,
when
they're
combined,
will
result
in
the
land
use
becoming
dispersed
and
reduced
overall
over
time.
E
The
second
issue
is
its
high
visibility.
When
we
look
at
them,
when
we
see
them,
they,
they
have
large
signs
in
yellow
and
red.
Some
of
them
have
what's.
The
word
can't
think
of
the
word
sandwich
boards
outside
sometimes
right
on
the
sidewalk,
with
very
interesting
slogans
and
they're
all
aimed
at
trying
to
get
the
vulnerable
populations
to
go
in
and
get
alone.
E
They
also
tend
to
locate
on
corner
Lots,
which
gives
them
that
much
more
window
room
to
put
their
signs
and
they
locate
along
exterior
walls
in
shopping
malls
and
plazas
again
to
continue
the
high
visibility,
so
staff
is
recommending
in
order
to
reduce
the
visibility
is
to
two
parts.
One
is
to
prohibit
the
land
use
in
any
building
that
contains
a
residential
land
use,
and
the
other
is
that
it
must
be
in
a
building
containing
other
commercial
uses
so
that
it
is
no
longer
standalone.
E
E
And
finally,
when
we
looked
at
the
zones,
we
felt
that
in
many
of
the
zones
it
you
use
would
be
inappropriate
as
well
as
unnecessary,
so
we're
looking
at
the
r5
zone
shouldn't
be
allowing
it.
The
local
commercial
zones
are
really
intended
to
be
for
the
everyday
needs
for
the
very
local
population.
So
that's
not
quite
what
a
payday
loan
is
major
institutional
zone
that
has
museums,
community
centers,
as
well
as
the
schools
and
post
secondary,
and
we
didn't
think
it
was
necessary
that
it
be
located
there.
E
Finally,
it's
rather
the
industrial
zones
it's
allowed
in
all
of
the
industrial
zones
as
a
secondary
use,
but
they
say,
city
has
lost
a
lot
of
industrial
zone
lands
over
time
and
there's
no
reason
to
put
a
payday
loan
in
with
the
industrial
zones.
And
finally,
there
are
no
payday
loans
that
are
located
in
the
rural
area
and
we
don't
think
it's
necessary
that
they
go
there.
They
won't
have
enough
of
a
catchment
area
in
any
case,
so
we're
proposing
to
remove
it
from
that
zone
as
well.
E
The
issue
with
the
payday
loans
is
that
they
don't
seem
to
need
any
development
applications
they
located
in
existing
buildings
and
often
they
don't
even
need
a
building
permit.
So
the
problem
would
be
that
the
city
would
never
know
when
a
new
payday
loan
is
coming
in,
and
so
as
a
result
of
that
staff.
E
Not
at
this
meeting
emergency
and
Protective
Services,
they
will
be
coming
forward
with
a
licensing
report
that
will
support
the
zoning
so
that
we
know
every
year
when
they
have
to
come
in
for
the
licensing
we
know
where
they
are
and
as
always,
mr.
chairman,
when
we
introduce
something
new,
we
always
have
grandfathering
under
the
Planning
Act.
That
means
that
all
the
existing
payday
loan
stores
can
stay
as
long
as
they
continue
that
operation
when
they
close
down
a
new
payday
loan
can
cannot
locate
in
that
building.
E
However,
a
change
in
ownership
does
not
result
in
the
removal
of
the
legal
non-conforming
under
the
Planning
Act.
So
it's
the
land
use
itself,
that's
grandfathered,
but
not
the
payday
lender,
so
they
can
sell
their
their
their
business
to
another
payday
lender
and
that's
okay,
the
vast
majority
that
payday
loans
will
not
meet
the
new
zoning
regulations.
So
over
time
these
will
be
substantially
reduced.
A
F
Vector
of
the
Vani
Community
Association
and
a
private
lawyer,
I'm
speaking
you
today
in
my
position
under
the
VCA,
the
Vani
Community
Association
they're.
Only
in
that
regard,
this
presentation
does
not
reflect
the
interest
positions
or
policies
of
my
employers,
including
those
of
the
Government
of
Canada,
especially
June
election
period.
I
want
to
make
sure
we're
clear
on
that
I'm
here
as
a
private
citizen.
In
my
own
personal
regard,
as
John
Oliver
provides
in
this
week
tonight.
Payday
loans
are
not
the
best
solution
for
Community
Development.
F
Over
the
past
two
years,
the
Vani
community
is
providing
evidence
in
advocacy
that
the
proliferation
of
payday
loan
lenders
hold
an
adverse
effect
on
the
economic
and
social
development
of
high
risk
communities.
Many
Canadian
studies
have
demonstrated
that
the
proliferation
of
payday
loan
companies
and
check
cashing
operations
negatively
affect
the
quality
of
life,
hampers
economic
development
and
facilitates
criminal
behavior
related
to
drugs
and
crime.
I
will
go
into
these
very
quickly.
F
Quality
of
life,
independent
academic
research
evidence
demonstrates
that
payday
loan
operations
results
in
a
higher
levels
of
mental
illness,
lowered
life
expectancy
of
constituents
who
live
near
payday
loan
companies,
economic
development,
application
of
payday
loan
centres
limits
economic
development.
When
an
operation
can
charge
over
five
hundred
and
fifty
percent
interest
rates,
it
means
that
there's
an
investment
of
taxpayer
dollars
being
invested,
not
into
Community
Health
and
Welfare,
but
diverted
into
ongoing
debt
payments.
F
Lastly,
an
economic
development
communities
like
Vanier
require
diversity
of
shops
and
activities
to
balance
economic
retail,
when
one
in
three
retailers
on
one
street
is
a
payday
loan
operator,
it
fails
to
attain
the
objectives
of
economic
diversity
for
local
economic
element
in
2016
I,
authored,
a
study
that
was
undertaken
by
myself
and
stakeholders
of
the
Vani
community,
including
a
corn
that
provided
three
points.
One
Vani
holds
a
disproportionate
amount
of
payday
loan
companies
exceeding
the
Ontario
City
and
national
averages
on
a
per
capita
basis.
F
At
the
time
there
were
33
payday
loan
companies
within
a
5
kilometer
radius
of
any
a
Montreal
intersection.
This
was
a
demonstration
of
a
proliferation
of
one
type
of
retailer.
Any
challenged.
Community
Vani
has
almost
20
times
the
payday
loan
centres,
the
national
city,
averages
and
sorry
30
times
more
than
the
national
average.
The
concentration
also
payday
loan
companies
is
not
evenly
allocated
across
Ottawa.
There
is
a
correlation
between
locations
of
payday
loan
companies
and
frequent
transit
retail
in
low-income
neighborhoods.
This
means
payday.
Loan
companies
are
systematically
targeting
low-income
persons
in
Ottawa.
F
It
is
increasingly
difficult
for
this
communities
like
Vani,
to
effectively
transition
to
a
more
productive,
economically
sound
and
safer
community
when
there's
a
high
level
of
concentration
of
payday
loan
companies,
which
contributes
to
economic
decline,
crime
and
poverty.
This
is
why
stakeholders
of
the
community
have
come
together
and
asked
the
city
for
additional
regulations
restricting
the
proliferation
of
payday
loan
companies,
especially
in
low-income
areas.
The
proposed
amendments
today
before
you
by
the
city
officials
attained
in
advance
the
Ottawa
official
City
plan.
They
helped
advance
safe
and
healthy
communities.
F
They
helped
protection
of
economic
well-being
of
citizens
and
they
provide
the
opportunity
to
have
location
of
growth
and
development
of
retail
operations.
As
such,
the
community
Vani
is
pleased
with
the
city's
progress
to
address
these
issues,
and
this
exporters
extended
to
the
SOS
Vania
community
and
the
Vania
BIA.
F
Over
100,
other
cities
have
pursued
regulatory
restrictions.
Only
concern,
if
any
is
the
issue
of
grandfathering.
I
would
ask
the
city
to
further
investigate
the
issue
of
grandfathering,
so
it
was
based
upon
people
actually
moving
out
and
not
merely
the
intention
of
the
lease
or
on
the
intention
of
their
operations
and
I
will
leave
there
and
ask
if
there's
any
questions
on
this
issue.
A
C
Thanks
and
I
think
you're
preaching
to
the
choir
around
this
table.
There
are
no
friends
to
payday
loan
establishments
here
at
City,
Hall
I,
don't
think
the
only
question
I
have
for
you
is.
Oh
sorry,
I
have
two
questions.
One
I
didn't
quite
catch
the
meaning
of
your
last
statement
with
respect
to
grandfathering,
and
the
second
question
is:
is
there
anything
the
city
has
not
done
within
its
power
that
you
would
seek
that
we
would
do
let.
F
Me
answer
the
second
question.
First,
the
within
your
power
is,
as
a
lawyer,
I'm
going
to
say,
the
city
is
doing
everything
it
can
do
within
the
law.
So
thank
you
for
that.
Now.
Back
to
the
first
question,
grandfathering
at
this
point
in
time
and
I'm
going
to
again
confer
to
my
colleagues
here
to
my
right
for
a
further
legal
expertise
on
this,
but
basically
it's
for
focused
solely
on
the
intent
of
the
vendor
and
when
the
abandoned
use
is
not
based
upon
the
action
of
grandfathering.
F
So
when
you
abandoned
it,
when
you
physically
abandoned
use,
they
their
property
can
still
be
used
as
a
payday
loan
company
in
the
future,
as
so
long
as
the
property
owner
demonstrates
the
intent
that
it
could
be
used
as
a
payday
loan.
So,
for
example,
they
say
our
current
tenant
has
moved
out,
but
please
come
and
use
this
as
a
payday
loan
company
facility
and
then
another
payday
loan
company
host.
You
know
what
that's
a
great
location.
It
was
overused,
as
that
I
want
to
now
move
in
and
continue
using
as
that.
F
So
that's
the
intention
right.
The
vendor
says:
please
come
and
reuse
it.
The
challenge
is:
is
that
once
it's
abandoned,
the
community
looks
at
it
and
says:
well,
it's
abandoned
now
it
shouldn't
grandfather
and
kick
in
shouldn't
that
use
be
over
I
mean
it
was
physically
abandoned.
The
action
was
abandoned,
so
why
was
another
one
moving
in?
F
C
A
G
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak.
My
name
is
Giselle
Bouvier
and
I.
Am
the
chair
of
the
Vani
chapter
of
acorn
with
me?
Is
Stephanie
Graham
and
she
is
the
co-chair
of
the
Vani
acorn
chapter
for
those
that
don't
know
us
acorn
is
a
national,
independent,
nonprofit
grassroots
organization
made
up
of
low
and
moderate
income
families
fighting
for
social
and
economic
justice.
We
don't
rely
on
government
and
corporate
funding
as
well,
primarily
financed
through
membership
dues.
G
G
Ad
French
financial
institutions
has
been
one
of
our
provincial
and
federal
campaigns
since
2004,
and
one
of
our
municipal
campaigns
are
not
lost.
Since
2015,
we
were
happy
when
the
City
Council
unanimously
directed
staff
to
look
at
controlling
payday
lenders
back
in
April
of
2018,
as
many
of
our
members
are
payday
loan
users.
We
are
pleased
with
the
recommendation
in
this
report
to
distance
and
license
payday
lenders.
This
is
something
a
corne
members
have
been
calling
for
to
stop
the
proliferation
of
clustering
of
payday
lenders
in
the
neighborhood
that
we
live
in
that.
G
That
being
said,
we
regret
that
installment
loans
were
not
included
in
this
study.
Installment
loans
are
short-term
loans
between
fifteen
hundred
and
ten
thousand
dollars,
but
are
not
subject
to
the
payday
loan
Act.
This
means
they
can
charge
up
to
the
criminal
codes
interest
rate
of
60
percent.
Many
payday
lenders,
such
as
many
market
offering
installment
loans.
G
G
The
concrete
step
that
we
hope
you
take
today
with
further
action
by
supporting
rural
banking,
we
strongly
encourage
you
to
support
staffs
recommendation
for
minimum
this
thing:
licensing,
payday
lenders.
We
also
ask
that
you
take
further
steps
that
egg
corn
has
suggested
for
addressing
the
urgent
problem
of
predatory
lending,
and
we
also
reiterate
the
fact
that
postal
banking
would
be
a
bonus
in
rural
areas
where
many
of
the
prominent
banks
are
closing
now
and
seniors
have
no
resources
to
get
the
banks.
A
H
Very
much
sorry,
I
said
here
good
day,
counsellors,
city
staff
and
obviously
our
neighbors
I.
Thank
you
for
this
opportunity
to
speak
today
to
the
committee
on
behalf
of
the
Vania
BIA,
the
500
businesses
we
represent
on
the
matter
concerning
payday
loans.
Anyone
who
is
driven
on
sanli
or
Montreal
Road
will
notice
the
high
volume
of
payday
loan
merchants
on
our
streets.
H
In
fact,
there
are
33
in
a
5
kilometer
radius
in
banging
that's
more
than
20
times
the
provincial
and
national
averages
beyond
the
obvious,
and
the
various
effects
of
these
types
of
businesses
have
on
a
social
fabric
of
a
community
which
I
won't
go
into
today,
but
I
think
most
people
around
this
table
know
where
I
stand.
I
would
like
to
speak
today
strictly
on
the
economic
impacts
of
such
things
in
2017,
our
Ottawa
Vanny
MPP,
Natalie
Derosier,
and
led
the
task,
the
provincial
Task
Force
on
the
payday
lender
laws
with
our
full
support.
H
H
The
diversity
ensures
that
restaurants
are
full
and
that
people
can
access
services,
that
people
have
places
to
shop
on
their
lunches
and
that
the
walkability
is
safe
and
vibrant,
making
it
a
desired
area
to
work
and
live
in
when
one
type
of
business
dominates
a
Main
Street,
especially
when
that
business
preys
on
the
most
vulnerable
people
in
the
city,
as
is
the
case
on
my
trail
Road
with
payday
loans,
it
cripples
the
economic
growth
within
that
area.
It
deters
businesses,
new
businesses
and
damages
thriving
businesses.
H
It
taints
the
reputation
of
the
area
and
these
types
of
businesses
attract
a
disproportionate
amount
of
crime
and
social
issues.
Furthermore,
ludicrously
high
interest
rates
Rob,
our
business
is
our
business
community
of
valuable
dollars
that
should
be
going
into
grocery
stores
and
restaurants
and
local
services.
When
someone
is
paying
a
five
hundred
percent
interest
rate,
they
tend
to
not
have
any
money
left
at
the
end
of
the
week
or
month
to
buy
things.
Therefore,
the
Vania
BIA
strongly
supports
the
city's
bylaw
amendments.
H
Today,
specifically,
we
support
the
zoning
distances
from
each
other
and
from
schools,
and
we
hope
that
you
will
continue
to
moderate
and
regulate
the
zoning
of
these
types
of
businesses
over
time
and
perhaps
in
the
future,
consider
review
removing
some
of
the
grandfather
clauses
in
communities
where
the
density
of
these
businesses
is
so
high.
We
feel
this
bylaw
will
allow
Main
streets
like
Montrell
Road,
to
see
business
diversity,
diversity
proliferate
and
for
a
community
to
continue
the
important
healing
process
that
we
are
in
Thank
You
counselors.
For
your
time.
C
Great
to
see
this
morning,
no
Natalie
I'm,
not
gonna.
Ask
you
the
same
two
questions.
Is
the
city
doing
everything
that
it
can
within
its
power
to
try
to
remove
the
scourge
of
these
buildings
or
businesses
and
secondly,
on
the
grandfathering
issue?
What
is
your
understanding
of
how
that
should
be,
perceiving.
H
So,
on
the
first
question:
I'm,
not
a
legal
expert
and
I-
do
believe
that
the
city,
the
city,
always
has
the
right
intentions
and
does
often
put
the
best.
The
best
case
scenario
for
it
and
I
do
believe
they're
currently
within
the
laws
and
the
regulations
that
you
have,
we
are
doing
what
we
can.
We
as
a
BIA
are
also
doing
what
we
can
as
your
as
your
partner's
when
it
comes
to
grandfathering.
H
I
can
only
use
the
current
example
that
we've
just
seen
with
pot
stores
and
we
had
a
disproportionate
amount
of
marijuana,
illegal
marijuana,
dispensaries
on
our
streets
and
when
the
law
came
through.
That
said,
these
places
are
no
longer
available
and
they're
no
longer
legal,
all
of
them
shut
down,
and
we
now
have
barbers
and
a
little
African
cultural
store,
and
we
have
tons
of
little
stores
that
are
popping
up.
A
new
little
designer
has
moved
in
and
what
we're
seeing
is
this
growth,
where
you
know
where
these
empty
spaces
were
left
and
we're?
H
These
people
were
paying
very
high
rents,
you
know
because
they
could
afford
to
because
they
were
doing
illegal
business
and
not
paying
taxes
or
membership
fees
to
the
BIA,
which
is
my
biggest
issue
and
I.
Think
what
we
saw
when
that
hole
was
created.
Was
these
beautiful
flowers
start
to
pop
up
and
we're
starting
to
see
that?
H
So
if
I
wanted
to
open
a
strip,
club
and
I
can
only
open
a
strip
club
where
there
are
currently
strip
clubs.
Well,
that's
only
there's
only
three
places
in
the
City
of
Ottawa,
where
I
can
I
think
I
don't
know
actually
go
to
strip
clubs
I'm
assuming
please
forgive
me
on
that
one,
but
I
would
only
be
able
to
go
to
one
of
those
three
things.
H
So
if
my
buddy,
who
owns
a
strip
club,
was
closing
down,
I
could
buy
his
licence
and
I
think
that's
what's
going
to
end
up
happening,
I'm
on
trail,
Road
and
so
I
really
strongly
enforce
or
encourage
this
council
to
look
at
what
that
means,
not
in
Orleans
where
I
live.
You
know
where
there
is
one,
but
in
on
Montreal
world
Road,
where
I
work
and
own
property,
where
there
are
33
like
that's
too
many,
and
these
are
the
most
vulnerable
people
in
our
city
and
these
people
prey
on
them.
H
They
are
on
every
block,
so
on
my
way
to
the
drug
store
to
get
the
medicine.
For
my
kid,
I
walk
past
six
of
these.
You
know
that
are
all
saying.
If
you
really
broke
right
now,
I
can
lend
you
money,
you're
gonna
be
great
and
that's
dangerous.
That's
really
dangerous,
economically
and
socially.
So
that's
my.
I
E
D
Okay,
so
that
I
won't
ask
some
follow-up
questions
and
other
questions
relating
to
the
distance
minimum
distance
that
you
have
one
kilometer
from
other
existing
establishments,
500
meters
from
a
casino
or
racetrack
300
from
schools.
Can
you
tell
me
why
the
latter
two
have
different
distances
than
the
one
kilometer
for
the
other
existing
establishments.
E
The
first
minimum
distance
is:
is
there
going
to
be
the
largest
one?
That's
typically
how
we
do
that
in
zoning.
If
we
don't
like
the
clustering
of
a
specific
use,
we
try
to
separate
it
as
much
as
possible.
The
other
minimum
separation
distances
are
based
on
other
factors.
It's
not
appropriate
to
in
our
recommendation.
Is
it's
not
appropriate
for
university
students,
for
example,
to
have
a
payday
loan
right
and
right
on
campus
or
across
the
street
they're
already
having
trouble
financially
that's
an
example
in
terms
of
schools.
E
D
Trying
to
get
as
why
is
it
only
300
meters?
Why
not
one
kilometer
you've
already
established
one
kilometer
from
other
establishments,
because
you
want
to
avoid
clustering.
If
you
know
that
there
are
some
strong
reasons
why
having
them
close
to
schools,
substantiates
a
distance
y
300,
why
not
be
consistent
and
have
everything
at
least
one
kilometer
from
another
establishment,
a
school
or
a
casino
I
think.
E
That,
if
we
did
that
and
put
a
kilometer
from
every
single
school
in
the
city,
we
would
basically
be
banning
the
use
there
wouldn't
be
any
area
where
they
would
really
be
able
to
locate,
and
it's
not
because
of
clustering.
In
that
case,
it's
about
making
sure
that
there
is
some
distance
or
that,
particularly
on
pay
days
where
they
have
to
line
up.
E
D
Obviously
some
people
who
use
the
services
are
unable
to
acquire
the
services
anywhere
else
that
this
is
their
last
resort,
but
the
interest
rates
and
other
financial
constraints
that
are
like
a
chain.
You
know
a
ball
chain
to
them
that
carries
on
forever
or
not
forever,
but
for
a
considerable
amount
of
time
as
they
try
and
pay
off
their
principal
and
interest
rate
is,
quite
frankly,
highly
unacceptable,
and
so
even
with
distance
criteria.
Problem
for
many
will
remain.
D
They'll
just
have
to
travel
a
bit
further
to
get
these
services
and
the
same
financial
challenges
that
they're
experiencing
now
will
continue.
So
I
appreciate
where
we're
going
with
this,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
those
those
hardships
that
many
of
our
residents
face
by
using
these
services
will
continue
and
so
I
don't
mind,
putting
stricter
distance
criteria
in
place
if
it
weeds
out
more
of
them.
I
think
that's
a
good
thing.
It's
unfortunate!
D
We
don't
have
the
authority
to
decide
whether
or
not
we
want
these
in
our
communities
to
begin
with,
but
certainly
this
is
a
step
in
the
right
direction.
So
all
this
to
say
I
mean
I'm
in
favor
and
evvamean
more
strict
distance
criteria,
I'm
not
gonna,
propose
any
changes
today.
I
want
to
reflect
on
that
further,
because
I
wanted
to
listen
to
your
rationale,
and
we've
certainly
had
people
who
have
been
engaged
in
this
process
for
quite
some
time.
D
Speaking
in
support
of
the
recommendations
with
perhaps
some
other
to
reflect
on,
but
you
know,
I
wouldn't
be
sad.
If
payday
loans
were
wiped
off
the
face
of
the
earth,
I
would
just
have
to
wrap
my
head
around
how
the
services
that
people
rely
on
now
would
continue,
because
I
don't
want
to
hurt
them
in
that
manner,
but
I
think
they're
being
abused
by
by
the
framework
of
these
payday
loan
establishments.
J
E
City
of
Toronto
did
the
same
thing,
and
so
when
we
were
doing
this
study,
we
thought
it's.
It's
not
a
bad
idea
and
people
that
are
at
the
casino
and
racetrack
might
be
losing
money.
Then,
if
there's
a
payday
loan
right
there,
it's
very
easy
to
go
and
get
more
money.
So
if
that
they
have
to
go
off
the
site
and
go
somewhere
else,
then
maybe
they
won't
be
quite
as
temperature.
J
J
K
I'm
share
part
of
the
challenge
that
we
have
with
respect
to,
that
is
that
we
always
have
to
regulate
these
distances
in
the
basis
of
what
is
already
in
the
zoning,
but
on
what
uses
are
clearly
already
identified.
So
a
lot
of
reestablishment
or
liquor
provider
or
any
of
those
those
are
retail
stores.
Anyone
can
do
that.
A
tobacco
establishment
can
located
any
other
retail
stores.
J
Do
that,
though,
with
things
like
group
homes,
group
homes
can
only
locate
within
300
meters,
I,
think
of
each
other,
and
they
can
locate
in
any
residential
zone,
there's
no
specific
zoning
for
them.
So,
theoretically
we
have
some
capability
of
doing
that
for
group
homes,
why
can't
we
do
it
within
the
commercial
class?
Well,.
J
That,
within
the
same
thing
as
it
doesn't
have
its
own
use,
it's
allowed
within
any
residential
zone
right
so
clearly
residential
zone,
one
on
street,
one
in
Orleans
is
the
same
as
residential
are
one
on
some
other
Street
New
Orleans
and
if
they're
too
close
together,
we
presumably
have
some
mechanism
to
understand
that.
Why
can't
we
do
that
between
commercial
zone,
one
in
Orleans
on
this
block
and
commercial
zone,
one
and
Orleans
on
this
other
block.
J
Do
you
know
what
I
mean
if
I
don't
want
to
use
any
company
names,
but
if
company
one
has
a
strip
mall
that
has
a
liquor
store
and
a
beer
pad
in
it
and
that's
typically
how
they
work
in
the
suburbs.
At
the
very
least,
why
can't
we
know
that
and
simply
say
that,
because
of
that
there's
a
proximity
limitation
on
the
use
of
payday
loans,
so.
K
I
think
the
challenge
again
is
the
the
issue
with
group
homes.
As
group
homes
are,
in
fact,
an
identified
use
within
the
zoning
bylaw.
There
is
a
previously.
There
were
registration
effects
that
would
occur
and
group
homes
still
do
come
in
when
they
come
in
for
a
building
permit
and
they
have
the
opportunity
to
identify
themselves
in
a
voluntary
basis
with
respect
to
again
with
a
liquor,
store
or
a
beer
store
or
any
of
those
things.
Those
are
not
identified
uses
under
the
zoning
bylaw.
They
are
simply
retail
stores.
J
E
J
How
would
we
if,
if
we
today
said,
we
don't
care
about
the
grandfathering
problem,
as
reflected
by
the
the
first
presenter
and
and
the
president
of
the
BIA,
that
if
once
they
move
out,
we
don't
want
the
landowner
to
retain
that
right?
We
want
that
right
to
be
with
the
business
runner.
If
we
wanted
to
ignore
that
and
take
that
risk,
how
would
we
amend
the
report
to
do
that.
J
L
Matt
madam
chair
I
I,
do
have
to
advise
the
committee
that,
under
the
Planning
Act
legal
non-conforming
status,
is
something
that
is
confirmed
can
conferred
on
these
types
of
uses.
There
could
be
a
legal
challenge
to
such
action.
If
you
wish
to
amend
the
report,
I
would
need
to
discuss
that
with
planning
staff,
as
it
is
their
report.
If
that's
the
direction
that
the
committee
is
moving.
Okay,.
M
E
Not
aware
that
any
municipality
is
trying
to
fight
the
grandfathering
Clause
under
the
Planning
Act
I
am
aware,
because
we
did
contact
the
province
and
we
specifically
said:
is
there
any
way
that
and
a
payday
lender
wants
to
close
his
business?
Is
there
any
way
to
prohibit
another
payday
business
from
coming
in
and
they
said?
E
No,
the
grandfathering
is
for
the
land
use
itself,
it's
not
for
who
runs
or
owns
that
business
so,
but
just
to
bring
you
back
to
what's
going
on
at
the
provincial
level,
we
did
have
1,300
payday
loans,
and
now
we
have
760.
They
want
to
get
out
of
this
business,
because
the
federal
government
and
the
provincial
government
have
continuously
put
harsher
and
harsher
regulations
on
them
in
terms
of
the
interest
rates
and
so
on.
So
we
see
this
really
downward
trend
and
many
of
them
want
to
go
online
and
the
problem
is
the
province.
Won't.
E
M
Also
mentioned
too
in
your
preamble
that
you
know
their
marketing
is
pretty
slick
right.
We've
got
the
bright
colors
we've
got
the
sandwich
boards.
We've
got
things
like
that
they're
located
in
spots,
where
people
who
are
are
more
apt
to
use
their
services
would
be
wandering
past
I'm.
Just
wondering.
Is
there
anything
in
that
respect
that
the
city
can
be
doing
in
terms
of
bylaws?
You
know
certain
communities
have
restrictions
on
signage
and
certain
you
know
on
certain
locations.
Is
there
any
way
we
can
beef
it
up?
M
E
City
does
have
the
signs
bylaw
I'm,
not
an
expert
on
the
signs
by
law,
so
I
can't
speak
to
that.
I
can
tell
you
that
I
looked
into
the
sandwich
boards
thinking.
Perhaps
we
could
get
rid
of
those
and
because
they're
temporary
signs
they
are
allowed
on
private
property,
so
they're
not
allowed
on
the
sidewalk.
So
if
they
push
them
up
against
the
building
that
is
allowed
beyond
that,
I
can't
I
can't
advise
anymore
on
the
signs
and.
M
Just
for
my
clarification,
businesses
that
are
offering
multiple
services,
so
payday
loans,
in
addition
to
say
a
pawnshop,
so
they're
doing
both.
Are
we
looking
at
those
as
well
as
it
just
there's
that
one
aspect
of
their
business
or
are
you
looking
at
all
the
aspects
of
it
if
they
were
to
adhere
to
this
legislation?
We.
E
Didn't
look
at
the
other
ones.
We
know
that
those
can
can
be
considered
quite
predatory
as
well.
However,
we
were
doing
this
and
council
directed
staff
to
undertake
the
zoning
amendment
based
on
what
the
province
had
just
done
with
the
putting
consumers
first,
so
we
had
to
stick
to
payday
loan
and
we
looked
into
the
definition
and
we
were
told
no,
you
have
to
stick
to
payday
loans
in
this
respect
from
the
province
I'm.
K
K
The
zoning
bylaw
pawnshops
are
considered
to
be
just
a
retail
establishment,
they're,
not
distinguished
under
provincial
law,
in
a
manner
that
allows
us
to
go
after
them
in
the
same
way
that
payday
loans
are,
and
so
we
always
have
to
look
to
the
municipal
act,
to
provide
us
guidance
as
to
where
we
can
provide
that
separation
and
what
gives
us
the
legal
authority
to
be
able
to
craft
regulations
pertaining
to
land
use
on
a
very
specific
use.
So
in
the
Specht
of
that.
This
is
why
this
study
is
focused
on
payday
loans.
K
Payday
loans
are
something
that
is
regulated
by
the
province
in
terms
of
their
operation,
their
financial
mechanism,
etc.
As
Beth
noted,
there's
also
federal
regulations
as
well
in
terms
of
the
ability
for
municipality
to
affect
them.
That
is
directly
guided
by
the
language
that
is
inserted
in
the
municipal
Act,
which
again
allows
for
payday
loans,
specifically
to
be
to
be
regulated
by
by
the
city.
A
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
One
of
the
the
biggest
supporters
have
seen
changes
to
money
Mart's
in
general
and
I'd,
be
one
of
those
supporters
too,
but
I
think
the
biggest
honor
council
is
councillor
flurry
and
I.
Thought
he'd
be
here
cheering
on
this
report
today,
so
I
just
want
to
ensure.
Did
you
speak
with
councillor
for
you?
What
would
are
some
of
his
comments
in
regards
to
this
report?
A
I
Do
you
have
anything
in
writing
from
him
at
all,
I
mean
what
reason
that
we're
going
through
this
process
in
no
small
way,
as
he
definitely
has
the
most
concentration
I
believe
of
anyone
in
the
city
and
we've.
Given
it
this
much
attention
because
of
his
interest
and
I
mean
how
many
times
we
had
had
brought
up
at
council
even
over
the
years
quite
a
few
times,
I
think
anyway,
I
just
he's
aware
he
has,
he
has
said
that
he
agrees
with
it.
Okay,
thank
you,
kill
Julie
for
questions,
I,
think.
C
E
A
great
question
and
I
thought
about
that
at
the
beginning,
but
when
you
lay
out
the
the
zoning
map,
you
see
that
the
Amazone
the
arterial
Main
Street
zone
is
in
the
suburbs
and
in
the
downtown
area
there
is
virtually
no
a.m.,
and
so
it's
mostly
traditional
Main
Street.
So
if
we
were
to-
and
you
do
have
the
opportunity
to
opportunity
to
choose
to
not
allow
them
in
the
TM
but
in
so
doing
you're
removing
from
the
entirety
of
the
inner
urban
area.
L
C
I
Think
you
know
I
mean
we
have
a
large
number
of
people
that
don't
support
having
payday
loans
places,
which
is
why
we
have
this
report
before
us,
and
staff
have
spent
as
much
time
as
they
have
on
it.
But
you
know
I
mean
obviously
there's
probably
a
need
to
have
some,
maybe,
and
but
and
and
I'll
and
I
go
back
to
before
amalgamation.
When
each
of
us,
each
of
us
meeting
me
Nepean
and
other
the
other,
each
of
us
dealt
with
strip
clubs.
We
had
to
have
one
strip
club,
we
weren't.
I
We
were
stuck
with
having
one
strip
club
in
Nepean
which
which
we
would
have
loved
to
have
like
children,
but
unfortunate
and
on
its
own.
It
it
imploded
and
had
closed
down
years
ago,
but
we
still
had
to
allow
that
so
I'd
like
good
idea.
So
this
is
coming
to
Council
in
a
couple
of
weeks.
So
let's
have
a
more.
K
Just
just
a
point
of
information,
madam
chair,
one
of
the
things
that
staff
did
do
while
preparing
this
regulations
as
they
mapped
out
what
the
effect
of
those
distance
separations
would
be
with
respect
to
clustering.
Beth
has
that
map
available
that
she
can.
She
can
pass
around
and
she
certainly
can
sit
down
and
show
that
to
you
in
effect,
what
that
does
in
cases,
for
example,
Montreal
Road
that
would
reduce
the
the
ability
for
payday
loan
stores
to
operate
really
along
the
entire
length.
K
K
So
when
we
that
was
part
of
our
thought
when
we
imposed
the
one
kilometer
distance
separation,
it
is
a
very
lengthy
distance
between
payday
loans,
and
so
it
does
significantly
reduce
the
ability
for
these
businesses
to
agglomerate
in
those
areas,
if
council
so
wishes.
That's
certainly
something
that
we
could
look
into
in
terms
of
removing
the
TM
zones
entirely,
but
we
would
also
be
more
than
happy,
but
I
am
chair
to
pass
around
that
map
to
all
interested
councillors
so
that
they
can
see
what
the
impact
of
that
distance
separation
would
be
on
their
wards.
K
J
You
it
would
be
good.
Basically,
the
report
articulates
where
they
won't
be
allowed.
I
guess
I'd
like
to
understand
then
where
they
will
be
allowed
in
a
separate
memo
was
fine.
You
know
between
now
and
council.
That
would
be
great.
Also
one
of
the
points
on
page
18
of
the
report.
It
says
a
payday
loan
establishment
must
be
located
in
a
building
that
contains
other
commercial
uses.
What
is
the
policy
rationale
for
that.
E
Without
that
they
can,
they
can
rent
or
buy
a
building
and
be
standalone,
meaning
it's
all
by
itself,
and
that
to
me
is
is
represents
again
high
visibility,
so
if
they
have
to
be
located,
for
example,
in
shopping
plaza
or
in
a
building-
and
they
have
them
on
Bank
Street,
where
it's
not
not
the
only
business
in
the
building,
and
that
way
we
can
try
to
reduce
the
visibility.
A
little
bit
isn't.
K
Met
I'm
sure,
just
just
to
elaborate
a
little
bit
more.
This
is
a
very
similar
to
regulation
as
to
what
we
put
in
place
for
money
exchange,
vendors
so,
and
then
people
used
to
use
to
be
able
to
go
and
use
to
build
a
new
currency
exchange
in
standalone
locations
or
whatnot.
Those
are
now
required
to
be
within
large
retail
establishments,
shopping
centers,
and
things
like
that,
which
is
where
you
find
them,
and
so
the
purpose
of
that
is
to
really
significantly
reduce
the
visibility.
K
As
an
example,
there
is
a
payday
loan
provider
on
Montreal
road
down
by
Beacon
Hill,
and
they
have
occupied
a
former
Pizza
Hut
location,
and
so
it
is
a
large
if
you
recall
what
Pizza
Hut
locations
look
like.
They
have
wrapped
that
building
entirely
around
with
neon
signage
bright
red
sign
is
so
it's.
It
is
very
significant
in
terms
of
the
visibility
and
certainly
the
accessibility
to
that
location.
K
J
I
understand
that,
except
for
in
in
a
suburban
context,
it
basically
means
they're
allowed
because
there
are
no
independent
commercial
buildings
in
the
suburbs.
They're
all
connected
as
one
building
in
in
a
mall
type
format,
and
so
you're
gonna
be
pushing
them
from
Main
streets
where
many
of
the
commercial
buildings
were
individualized
like
a
Pizza,
Hut
or
so
on
and
so
forth
into
the
malls
further
into
the
neighborhoods.
You
understand,
you
see
what
I
mean
I.
K
Do
understand
what
you
mean
and
I'm
chair
I.
Think
one
of
the
things
that,
with
respect
to
suburban
and
subdivisions
and
commercial
retail
areas,
is
that
generally,
there
is
the
the
commercial
retail
base
on
the
main
commercial
plaza,
and
then
there
will
be
the
independent
pads
which
would
be
located
further
out
in
the
parking
area.
So
without
this
regulation
and
without
what
what
Beth
is
proposed
here,
one
of
those
independent
pads
would
be
able
to
be
taken
up
by
a
payday
loan
establishment,
which
could
locate
very
prominently
right
to
the
front
of
the
arterial.
K
J
I,
just
don't
know
those
those
prime
those
prime
individualized
pads
have
the
highest
rents
right.
That's
why
it's
always
the
beer
store
or
the
liquor
store,
and
not
something
smaller
I'd
like
to
understand
where
they're
going
to
be
allowed,
because
there
are
vulnerable
people
in
the
suburban
area
that
are
vulnerable
for
different
reasons,
especially
as
our
our
communities
become
more
culturally
and
linguistically
diverse.
There
are
other
vulnerabilities
we
need
to
consider
as
well.
Thank
you.
I
Very
good
point,
because
you
know
we're
very
folks.
The
speakers
that
are
out
here
today
are
speaking
from
a
particular
part
of
Ottawa
and
certainly
where
we
have
the
greatest
majority
of
them.
But
you
know
councillor.
Bleh
raises
a
good
point
just
because
you
know,
for
example,
a
bar
Haven.
If
the
average
salary
it's
the
second
highest
household
income,
doesn't
mean
those
people
have
money,
they
could
be
living
in
a
house
as
mortgage
poor
hockey,
poor
soccer
poor.
All
of
that
kind
of
stuff
as
well.
I
You
know-
and
yes,
they
have
choices,
they
could
not
have
their
kids
do
it,
but
you
still,
the
pressure
is
there
to
have
an
out
for
your
money.
If
you
will
you
know
or
and
and
the
need
could
be
different,
I
don't
know.
This
is
like
I
think
this
is
I,
think
that
this
conversation
is
going
beyond
and
is
more
provocative
than
I
expected.
It
would
be
so
I
think.
That's
purpose
of
why
we're
here,
it's
great
I,
think
I'm
going
back
to
a
counselor
early
for
anybody
else
want
to
be
back
on
the
list.
I
C
E
I
Reasonable
in
politics
don't
go
hand
in
hand,
it's
very
rare,
I,
don't
even
know
it
anymore.
You
know
I
mean
we.
We
have
time,
I,
think
I
I.
This
is
what
I'm
going
to
suggest
I'm
going
to
suggest
that
in
the
future,
when
we
have
something
that
is
so,
it's
got
so
many
aspects
to
it
is
very
much
citywide.
Even
if
it's
focused
in
a
local
community
that
staff
provide
the
opportunity
for
briefing
where
councilors
can
come,
media
can
come,
they
can
come
in
and
they
can
ask
questions
once
the
reports
live.
I
I
think
that
that's
important,
that
we
do
that,
because
I
think
a
lot
of
the
questions
were
really
good
and
very
different
than
then
I.
Think
what
many
of
us
expected.
So
we
do
have
some
time
until
council.
If
anybody
has
any
questions
other
than
the
ones
you
raised
you
have
raised
today.
Please
share
them
and
you
know,
what's
the
word
the
where
we're
not
defined
by
a
certain
timeline
here
right
I
mean
we
are
know.
I
We're
gonna
rise
to
council
on
detective
service.
Yes,
yes,
well,
then
we
would
just
hold
them
both
up.
I
think
we,
you
know,
I
can
tell
you
that
there's
this
many
questions
of
this
committee.
Well,
we
don't
have,
as
mentioned
by
vice-chair
Tierney
councillor.
Flurry,
isn't
here,
I
think
that
maybe
he
would
have
had
other
questions
to
ask.
Had
he
been
here
to
be
part
of
the
conversation
he's
just
an
example.
I
think
that
there's
others
I
mean
coughs
relief.
I
I
A
I
H
I
I
B
I
think
it's
a
very
quick
question
for
me:
councillors
get
a
lot
of
inquiries
from
the
public
about
speeds
in
our
communities
and
I've
noticed
in
our
community.
A
lot
of
the
requests
we
get
for
traffic
calming
is
on
collector
streets.
I.
Think
the
report
presented
is
excellent
and
I'm
glad
to
see
it.
The
recommendations
there's
one
of
the
cross
sections
that
indicates
specifically
be
aimed
to
have
a
30
kilometer
per
hour,
environment
and
I,
was
curious
about
you
know
with
the
other
cross
sections
that
are
being
recommended.
What
is
the
approach?
B
N
You
chair
and
committee
in
the
design
of
streets,
it's
important
that
we
actually
design
the
street
for
the
intended
speed.
The
speed
that
we
wish
to
post
this
and
the
design
provides
clear
cues
to
the
to
the
driver
for
the
context
and
their
behavior
that
which
they
should
act.
If
a
street
is
posted
at
one
speed
and
the
design
is
for
another,
maybe
higher
speed,
then
there's
confusion
to
the
driver
and
they're
attracted
actually,
and
they
have
the
capacity
to
drive
faster
than
we
intend.
N
This
document
shows
ways
to
integrate
speed
management
right
into
the
design
as
we
implement
it
the
first
time-
and
it
includes
such
clues
and
features
such
as
bulb
outs
to
define
the
parking
along
the
street.
It
brings
the
street
trees
into
the
street
edge
more
closely
to
define
the
street
and
provide
that
kind
of
vertical
resistance.
If
you
will,
and
finally,
we
develop
scenarios
where
we
have
parking
alternating
on
street
parking
up
and
down
the
street.
N
These
contribute
to
defining
a
more
tighter,
closer
Street,
which
would
then
operate
at
the
intended
speed
at
which
we
wish
to
post.
So
these
have
been
integrated
into
the
designs
that
we're
illustrating
proposing
in
this
document.
These
are
not
necessarily
reflected
in
the
existing
designs
that
we
have
been
building
our
collector
streets
in
the
past.
So
this
is
an
update
to
reflect
that
process
in
that
process.
Okay,.
B
O
B
There
will
be
no
separation,
however,
we
are
following
a
Oda
recommendations
and
that
we
will
have
a
tactile
delineator
between
the
sidewalk
and
the
cycle
track.
We
did
look
at
opportunities
to
separate
the
two.
However,
we
ran
into
issues
with
maintenance
off
maintenance
and
operations,
so
we
did
look
at
those
alternatives,
but
from
a
ongoing
operations
and
maintenance
perspective.
We
we
landed
on
this
final
iteration,
so.
B
So,
in
the
case
of
the
typical
speeds
of
cyclists
and
pedestrians,
they
are
much
closer
in
nature.
The
the
important
thing
that
we
found
in
consultation
with
our
stakeholders
was
to
separate
pedestrians
and
cyclists
from
motor
traffic.
So
a
lot
of
our
cross
sections
you'll,
see
in
the
pre
vetted
cross
sections,
which
we
have
nine
of
many
of
those
cross
sections
have
boulevards
of
two
to
four
and
a
half
metres
of
width
and-
and
that
was
the
main
safety
issue
that
we
were
trying
to
address
and.
O
B
So
in
all
of
our
cross
sections,
where
we
have
dedicated
space
for
trees,
there's
a
minimum
2
meter
offset
from
the
road
and
based
on
the
the
integrated
speed
management,
we
determined
with
our
operations
group
that
the
this
salt
spray
will
not
be
will
not
affect
the
the
placement
of
the
trees.
The
issue
is
when
we
start
placing
the
trees
closer
to
the
road,
and
then
we
have
to
come
up
with
mitigation
to
to
deal
with
a
salt
spray,
so
in
all
of
our
pre
very
cross
sections
where
we
have
dedicated
space
for
trees.
B
B
So
the
Bombers
of
the
year,
yes,
so
the
boulevards,
the
wide
boulevards
are
strategic
utility
meeting
utility
requirement
of
clearance
requirements
was
a
challenge
and
we
found
with
these
wide
boulevards.
We
could
meet
snow
storage
requirements,
utility
clearances
tree
offsets.
So
these
wide
boulevards,
which
we
don't
typically
see
today,
are
one
of
the
the
key
elements
here,
and
this
is
how
we
save
space.
So
in
this
case
for
again
for
salt
spray,
snow
storage
and
utility
clearances,
the
the
wide
boulevards
meet
those
objectives
and
finally,.
O
Does
this
design
what
the
trees
there
will
that
give
us
I
know
under
building
better
suburbs,
that
the
the
chair
and
I
worked
on?
One
of
the
things
we
worked
on
with
staff
and
and
stakeholders
was
how
to
get
some
bigger
trees
into
the
neighborhood.
So
it's
just
going
to
allow
us
to
have
a
bigger
roof.
All
a
type
tree
that'll
provide
a
nice
canopy
over
the
sidewalk.
Is
that
the
intention
of,
however
many
meters,
you
said
that
space
was
yeah.
B
This
is,
this
is
exactly
one
of
the
main
drivers
of
the
wide
Boulevard
is
that
we
can
provide
sufficient
soil
depth
and
volume
for
a
large
tree
canopy.
So
these
are
our
trees
in
the
range
of
15
meters
at
full
growth
and
they're
they're
insulated
by
that
offset
from
the
street
as
well.
So
one
of
the
issues
we
had
with
the
previous
cross-section
is:
we
could
only
identify
the
occasional
space
for
small
ornamental
trees.
The
the
there
are
a
few
cross-sections
in
here
where
we
have
consistent
space
for
large
trees.
Okay,.
I
I'll
tell
you
that
all
those
crabapples
have
read
that
words.
The
only
thing
some
I've
got
some
neighborhoods
that
have
nothing,
but
even
the
crabapple
has
become
such
a
problem
because
they
drop
on
the
sidewalks,
make
it
extremely
dangerous
for
people
to
freak
and
walk
on
them
on
their
wage
of
27
schools
and
bar
Haven.
Miss
Chi
I
think
that
this
is
like
the
last
item
that
we
had
I'm
gonna
recommend
that
you
provide
an
opportunity
to
further
brief
anybody
on
council
before
everybody
any
of
the
councillors
before
council
meeting.
I
If
you
could
arrange
that
I
think
that
would
be
helpful.
You
know
we've
got
a
lot
of
people
here
who
weren't
here
for
building
better
smarter
suburbs,
and
it
was
like
a
five-year
piece
of
work
that
was
very,
very
fulsome
and
so
I
noticed
when
I'm
reading
this,
because
of
my
familiarity
with
and
like
councilor
hubely
said
I
I'm
identifying.
You
know
reasons
why
you
did
some
of
this
and
you
worked
with
the
industry
on
this
as
well,
because,
obviously,
after
up
there
on
the
new
streets,
so
do
you
take
that
as
direction?
M
You
spoke
I've
got
a
couple
of
quick
questions.
You
spoke
about
snow
clearing
and
that
that
was
factored
into
this
consultation
was
I,
know
that
in
hearing
about
the
need
to
snow,
clear
for
cycling,
infrastructure
and
sidewalks,
is
that
also
taken
into
consideration
in
terms
of
if
we
build
collectors
with
the
segregated
cycling
you're,
not
in
your
head?
Okay,
so
I'm
getting
that's
yes,.
N
M
N
M
M
And
you've
been
living
there
and
you
know
you
have
it
are
they
do
we
find
that
we
have
a
higher
number
of
residents
who
live
on
collector
streets
who
have
issues
with
traffic
related
concerns
and
speeding
and
the
city
has
to
come
in
with
temporary
traffic,
calming
measures
or
area
traffic
management.
So
more
money
invested
by
our
taxpayers
to
resolve
a
traffic
issue.
L
Councilor,
yes,
we
have
observed
that
and
it's
true
and
that's
why
these
design
guidelines
are
set
up
so
that
any
new
or
retro
or
reconstruction
of
roads
would
follow
this
design.
So
we
would
then
mitigate
the
the
current
complaints
of
traffic,
speeding
and
volumes
which
are
based
on
guidelines
and
designs
that
roads
that
were
built
decades
ago.
So
this
this
will
address
those
issues
and.
M
I'm
really
happy
to
hear
that
and
I
was
happy
to
see
this
work
done
on
that.
So
I
would
only
encourage
you
to
consider
that
as
we
implement
these
streets
and
we
work
in
lockstep
with
the
TMP
that
we
consider
limiting
maybe
some
of
those
front-facing
residential,
because
the
fewer
people
are
living
on
these
and
the
the
more
roads.
M
We
have
that
actors
act
as
real
roads
for
cars
and
transit
and
cycling
and
getting
to
and
from
amenities
and
schools
and
workplaces
in
our
community,
the
less
we're
going
to
have
of
those
conflicts
and
the
less
impact
on
our
tax
dollars.
When
we
try
to
go
resolve
those
issues
to
me,
it's
smart
planning,
so
I'm
really
happy
to
see
the
work
being
done
here
and
I
look
forward
to
us
implementing
it.
N
J
It
it
has
to
by
default.
If
you
look
at
26
a
yep,
you
have
the
sidewalk
and
the
mop
on
the
close
side.
I'll
call
it
to
the
to
the
house
with
the
tree
in
between,
whereas
if
you
look
at
26
B
you've
got
the
tree
on
the
close
side
of
the
house
with
the
sidewalk
on
them
up
on
the
far
side.
Even
in
your
visual,
you
can
see
how
the
driveway
distance
is
affected.
J
One
would
allow
for
a
small
or
family
sized
car
versus
the
other,
allowing
for
a
truck
or
minivan,
and
it
changes
by
definition,
your
lot
depth
requirements
or
the
type
of
vehicle
you
can
own.
When
you
live
there
and
as
someone
who
has
bought
several
new
homes,
this
is
not
the
kind
of
question
people
buying
a
new
home.
Ask
and
so
you're
gonna
arrive
at
your
brand-new
house
and
not
be
able
to
figure
car
in
your
driveway,
let
alone
the
two
you
probably
actually
own.
B
So
yeah
we
we
did
consult
with
representatives
from
the
Greater
Ottawa,
Home,
Builders,
Association,
and
and
certainly
with
with
the
suite
of
cross-sections.
We
have
the
amount
of
driveway
overhang
we
provide
private
driveway.
Overhang
we
provide
within
the
right-of-way
is
typically
less
so
in
those
cases.
So
for
the
26
a
as
an
example,
we
do
have
a
minimal
amount
of
driveway
overhang,
and
so
that
would
affect,
like
you,
said,
driving,
driveway
setbacks
or
property
setbacks.
However,
the
front
of
the
building
can
also
be
it
doesn't
affect
the
frontage
of
the
building
itself.
B
It
may
just
affect
the
garage.
So
when
it
comes
to
the
designs
of
the
properties,
we
were
informed
that,
yes,
it
would
affect
the
the
position
of
the
garage
front
with
respect
to
the
the
building
front,
but
in
other
cases
where
we
have
already
approved
cross
sections
or
right-of-way
widths,
there
are
other
options
in
the
suite
that
are
available.
J
J
O
J
Of
which
need
to
be
accounted
for
in
these
decisions,
otherwise
you're
gonna
end
up
with
problems
so
and
I'll
give
you
an
example:
tenth
Line
Road,
we
widened
tenth
line,
Road
south
of
Lake
Ridge
down
to
harvest
Valley
about
a
year
ago.
Two
years
ago,
a
mop
was
added
to
the
west
side
of
the
road,
and
that
which
is
perfectly
fine.
J
It
will
get
used
in
the
future,
but
that
changed
the
street
light
configuration
on
10th
Line
to
requiring
protected
left
turns
in
order
to
give
the
cyclists
on
the
single
lane
mop
on
one
side
of
the
road,
the
right-of-way
thus
backing
up
traffic,
because
there
aren't
actually
no
cyclists
as
of
yet
so.
How
does
this
cross-section
change
the
need
for
protected
versus
permissive
traffic
lights
inside
the
neighborhood.
N
Let
me
go
back
to
your
first
key
point:
it's
important
that
this
document
contributes
information
in
the
actual
development
of
the
community,
for
example
during
community
design
plans.
So
when
land
use
types
are
chosen
and
Road
types
are
chosen
and
the
road
rights-of-way
are
identified
at
that
time,
it
is
there
that
we
can
coordinate
and
the
proper
selection
of
not
only
the
cross
sector
or
the
right
way,
but
the
type
of
cross
section
that
would
be
appropriate
and
the
land
use
so
that
they
work
together
is
identified.
N
That's
the
first
step
and
then
the
second
step
would
be
is
after.
If
we
are
looking
at
it,
where
there's
been
an
approval
off
through
a
secondary
plan
and
we're
now
moving
into
plan
of
subdivision.
There
is
a
range
of
alternatives
within
and
within
the
typical
standard,
rights-of-way
of
26,
24
and
22
that
a
developer
can
choose
amongst
those
or
modify
them
to
meet
the
needs
of
their
adjacent
land
use.
But.
J
I
guess
that's
my
point
right.
It
needs
to
be
incorporated
at
the
CDP
point,
otherwise
it
won't
work
together
and,
given
that
we
we
are
five
or
six
years
removed
from
the
last
urban
expansion,
at
least
in
Cumberland.
All
the
CDP's
for
the
urban
expansion
are
done.
I,
don't
know
what
it's
like
in
bar
Haven
in
Statesville,
but
the
CDP's
are
done,
and
so
now
we're
going
to
be
modifying
at
the
point
of
engineering
stage
after
zoning
with
these
new
cross
sections,
do
you
see
what
I
mean?
Yes,
it's
not
going
to
flow
together.
J
L
Councilor,
yes,
and
if
we
encounter
a
situation
where
things
don't
align,
these
are
guidelines.
They're
they're,
not
they're,
not
policy,
so
that
it
must
be
done
so
it
would
decisions
would
be
made
in
the
context
of
what's
out
there.
We
tried
to
provide
for
some
flexibility
at
the
same
time,
trying
to
direct
the
designs
towards
something
that
is
more
community-based
for
the
collectors.
J
I
think
that
would
be
valuable.
I
recall
we
passed
the
rule
of
bylaw,
or
perhaps
it
was
a
direction
that
instead
school
as
an
example,
every
driveway
had
to
fit
two
cars
front
to
back
I.
Think
we
passed
this
three
or
four
years
ago,
because
councilor
Qadri
was
dealing
with
a
problem.
This
cross
section
would
eliminate
that
ability.
You
can
only
fit
one
car,
which
may
be
a
good
thing
to
do.
J
I'm,
not
commenting
on
that
one
way
or
the
other
I'm
saying
it
puts
that
policy
in
conflict
with
this
I
think
we
just
need
to
consider
the
neighborhood
functionality
and
especially
when
you
have
an
area
where
there's
an
urban
expansion,
but
the
communities
are
going
to
link
together
with
roads,
because
the
urban
expansion
has
always
been
foreseen.
You're
gonna
have
one
cross
section
and
then,
when
you
get
to
the
neighborhood,
that's
old,
but
maybe
still
only
six
years
old,
it
will
stop
and
you'll
be
forced
you'll
force
the
cyclist
back
into
a
road
type.
J
That's
not
designed
this.
Do
you
know
I
mean
like
there
there's
no
plan
on
how
we're
going
to
link
it
together
is
I
know
in
Cumberland
the
urban
expansions
are
going
to
extend
existing
communities
and
we've
planned
those
existing
communities
assuming
an
urban
expansion,
and
so
the
collector
roads
all
end
in
those
little
fire
loops
understanding
that
that
road
is
going
to
continue
further
south
in
the
future.
J
I
And
I
have
that
happening
right
now,
and
it's
happened
three
two
years
ago
in
bar
Haven
and
Half
Moon
Bay,
so
we
had
the
Green
Bank
realignment
that
was
supposed
to
be
starting
to
I,
think
design
and
build
around
2016,
which
was
delayed
now
I
had
to
take
the
money.
As
you
know,
from
that
to
pay
for
strand
her.
I
My
point
is:
is
that
we
have
this
colliding
right
now?
Okay,
so
and
it's
when
the
engineering
gets
volved,
that's
the
problem
for
sure.
So
we
need
a
further
conversation
on
that
I.
Don't
know
how
we
we
do
that
and
whether
this
locks
us
into
the
point
where
there
isn't
going
to
be
room
for
wiggle
room
I,
don't
think
so
I
think
that's
part
of
the
problem.
It
doesn't
lock
you
in
nothing,
really
locks
you
in
and
then
you
get
into
a
situation
and
then
you
go
what
you
facing
the
same
thing
now.
I
I
So
is
the
designing
neighborhood
collector
streets,
approved
I'm,
actually
good
yeah,
yeah
I
think
approved
with
more
work,
I'm,
better
understanding,
ironing
out
the
details
right?
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
out
today.
Oh
I
think
the
only
one
with
one
last
item
that
is
held
for
question
and
it's
the
site
plan
controlled
by
law
and
Lilly
you're.
Here
technical
amendment,
I,
don't
have
who
I
wanted
to
speak
to
it.
Councillor
leaper
thanks.
C
And
I
saw
this
on
the
the
agenda
of
Iraq
a
while
ago
and
centered
around
to
some
of
our
community
associations
for
their
comment,
we're
having
difficulty
figuring
out
what
this
technical
amendment
would
mean
for
the
urban
area.
How
is
that
GF
a
calculation
being
used,
and
then
what
is
the
implication
for
site
plan
requirements
are
not
in
our
neighborhoods.
Sorry.
P
Medic
chairing
a
counselor
so
to
understand
the
intent
of
the
technical
amendment.
I
have
to
bring
it
back
to
the
February
amendment,
which
was
a
major
one
to
the
second
controlled
by
law.
Before
the
February
amendment
singles
Sammy's
and
three
unity
townhouses,
they
don't
ever
need
a
Sai
plan.
So
what
the
February
amendment
did
was
saying
if
you're
over
six
hundred
square
meters,
they
want
to
see
us
I
plan
if
you're
on
there.
P
Well,
let
you
go
so
that's
so
it's
through
that
exercise
we're
actually
having
more
digital
rules
in
terms
of
what
suppliers
awareness
sometimes
will
be
required.
The
intention
of
that
amendment
has
always
been
the
single
sentence
and
the
time
forces
because
typically
below
the
ground
areas,
are
basements
mechanical,
another
healer,
so
they're
not
typically
they're
not
regarded
as
the
selling
unit
sizes.
When
we
seen
the
market,
when
you
know
the
industry
selling
2,000
square
feet,
they
meant
area,
and
during
my
time
we
didn't
discover
the
difference.
P
C
P
So
so,
typically
it
would
it
be
for
three
you
know
to
town
house.
You
know
you
want
to
let
in
each
of
the
units
above
ground
or
200
square
meters.
Maximum
we
want,
doesn't
go
with
other
sideline,
but
because
we
don't
have
that
the
technical
explanation
and
always
the
you
know,
implementation.
We
would
have
to
count
everything
as
well,
so
the
mechanical
rooms
basement
so
basically
now
out
the
stream
of
the
townhouses
can't
just
go
by
with
other
side
plan.
That's
what
the
intent
of
the
amendment
do.
P
Secondary
dwelling
units
has
always
being
allowed,
you
know
pre
the
February
and
women,
so
they
they
are
the
secondary
truly
by
nature.
They
are
a
lot
in
the
town's
units.
It's
only
becoming
a
problem
when
they're
not
a
secondary
units
and
nature,
and
that
is
converting
the
unit
to
either
a
duplex
or
triplex
or
apartment
building,
for
which,
when
we
calculate
the
dance
floor
area,
come
to
the
drama
area,
underground
area
basements
as
well.
Okay,.
I
I
J
You
very
much
madam
chair,
the
province
of
Ontario
has
discussed
the
possibility
of
selling
the
LCBO
and
broadening
the
distribution
and
sale
of
an
alcohol
further,
as
professional
sports
leagues
are
embracing.
Organized
sports
betting,
including
in
game
in
arena
facility
bedding,
can
staff
investigate
the
possibility
of
establishing
specific
uses
related
to
these
activities
to
maximize
the
city's
regulatory
control.
J
Were
just
told
that
we
could
not
establish
a
separation
distance
between
payday
loans
and
liquor
stores
and
beer
stores,
because
they're
not
identified
as
specific
uses
they're
allowed
in
the
general
rhe
commercial
zone,
and
so
this
would
be
to
investigate
establishing
specific
uses
for
the
sale
of
alcohol
and
for
sports
betting,
because
sports
betting,
the
NBA
as
an
example,
is
just
embracing
sports
betting.
And
if
we're
actually
going
to
protect
vulnerable
people,
then
we
should
maximize
regulatory
control.