►
Description
Environment and Climate Protection Committee meeting – March 26, 2018 – Audio Stream
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
Biology
of
composting,
there's
people's
behavior
residents,
behavior
and-
and
you
know,
I
think
understanding
behavior
shifts
is-
is
something
that
we
we
all
can
understand
if
we're.
If
we
are
confident
in
the
methodologies
that
are
being
used,
for
example,
through
market
research,
I'm
guessing
that
you
have
had
a
chance
to
to
look
at
those
methodologies
so
and
consider
they're
they're
valid.
B
Just
as
a
in
that
specific
case,
when
we
we
had
them
rerun
the
numbers
for
us,
what
we
did
is
we
actually
brought
it
back.
I
think
it
was
go
from,
let's
say
a
38
percent
based
on
no
no
plastic
to
a
42
percent,
so
only
a
like
a
four
percent
increase
and
a
net
forward
with
those
numbers
I
was
still
sufficient
to
to
make
the
business
case
work
to
support
the
option
that
are
moving
ahead
with
so
it
didn't.
Take
a
great
em
went
to
us.
B
B
Thank
you
very
much.
Mr.
chair
for
accommodating
me,
I
had
a
couple
des
speakers.
I
do
appreciate
that
just
a
question
to
mr.
Hughes.
Mr.
Hughes,
do
you
have
any
concerns
today
in
terms
of
the
contract
being
sole
source
were
says,
you
know
previously
in
the
in
the
old
contract,
because
I
know
that
was
partly
one
of
your
concerns
with
the
money
did
the
report
on
it.
D
Like
mr.
chair,
our
our
our
concerns
about
the
original
contract
remain,
this
is
a
as
an
amendment
to
that
contract
and
that's
probably
a
it's.
My
understanding
that
the
city
solicitor
sees
this
as
as
an
appropriate
tool
to
amend
a
contract
where
both
sides
wish
to
make
some
changes.
The
contract
already
exists.
We
expressed
our
concern
on
the
original
contract.
This
is
an
amendment
to
that
contract.
D
B
C
Thank
you,
I'm,
not
aware
of
others
wanting
to
ask
questions
of
the
Auditor
General
speak
now
or
forever
hold
your
peace
all
right.
Thank
you
very
much,
then
that
for
coming
before
us,
you
are,
of
course
welcome
to
stay
with
us
for
the
rest
of
the
meeting
that
also
free
to
leave.
If
you
choose
to
do
so,
it
won't
be
hold
again
held
against
you.
We
will
move
now
to
questions
on
all
other
aspects
of
the
report.
C
That's
before
us
I'm,
going
to
take
my
chairs
prerogative
and
lead
off
here
with
a
few
questions
which
I
hope
will
maybe
lessen
the
number
that
we
need
to
ask
around
compostable
bags
around
standards
around.
Why
we're
going
with
one
bag
versus
the
other
I'm
going
to
characterize
what
I
think
to
be
the
the
renegotiated
contract
and
the
new
conditions
in
front
of
us
and
and
asked
for
your
comments,
then
please.
C
My
understanding
is
that
the
new
contract
or
renegotiated
contract
in
front
of
us
allows
our
residents
to
use
plastic
bags
or
in
fact,
any
kind
of
bag,
including
the
paper
and
blind
ones
that
we
previously
said
were
the
only
allowable
ones.
It
now
opens
it
up,
so
they
can
use
other
forms
of
of
bags
within
the
system.
C
We,
as
a
city
are
not
recommending
going
straight
to
compostable
only
bags
for
reasons
of
a
lack
of
a
provincial
standard
at
the
moment,
some
other
perhaps
confusion
in
the
commercial
marketplace,
but
should
we
at
any
time
in
the
future,
choose
to
impose
a
specific
type
standard
of
compostable
bag?
The
city
would
be
able
to
do
that
without
having
to
renegotiate
the
contract.
We're
essentially
saying
it
might
be
plastics
for
the
next
couple
of
months
or
the
next
couple
of
years,
but
if
we
wanted
to
go
that
route,
that
would
be
a
relatively
easy
step.
E
E
However,
if
if
residents
want
to
go
out
and
buy
compostable
bags
and
that
will
motivate
them
to
participate
in
the
program
there
they're
free
to
do
that,
but
and
if
they're
motivated
to
participate
in
the
program
to
use
plastic
bags
or
some
of
the
other
types
of
bags
that
we
showed
up
on
the
slide.
They're,
certainly
free
to
do
that.
The
overall
goal
here
is
to
drive
participation
in
this
program
and
that's
the
way
we've
developed.
It.
C
E
C
E
C
E
There
is
no
there's
provincial
framework
around
producer
responsibility
for
the
blue
and
black
box,
there's
no
such
framework
around
the
green
bin
and
that's
unfortunate,
because
that
really
does
leave
it
up
to
producers
and
municipalities,
as
is
the
case
in
Toronto
Toronto,
going
through
it
right
now
to
figure
out
what
is
that
producer
responsibility
and,
as
we
said
in
the
report
and
in
and
and
in
the
presentation
and
certainly
guided
by
the
motion,
that's
very
hopeful
helpful
that
has
been
put
forth,
we're
willing
and
we
will
be
working
with
industry
in
this
regard.
Thank.
C
You
and
I
noted
to
myself,
because
I
heard
different
language
with
plastics,
particularly
the
bags
again
allowing
versus
encouraging
really
what
the
city
is
doing
is
allowing
the
use
of
plastic
bags
we're
not
saying
to
everyone.
We
all
hope
you
will
now
use
plastic
bags.
In
fact,
you
showed
us
that
image
there,
which
is
quite
clear
in
sense,
the
hierarchy
as
well,
starting
with
paper-based
fully
compostable
materials.
That's
still
going
to
be
the
preference
that
we
will
edgeloop
with
the
message
out
to
to
to
residents
corrector.
B
C
You
finally
from
me
at
the
moment,
beneficial
use
of
the
standard
of
the
quality
of
the
compost
that
comes
out
at
the
end
was
raised.
Are
we
seeing
a
degrade
degradation
in
quality
now
and
the
beneficial
use
material
was
brought
up?
Can
you
perhaps
remind
us
or
help
clarify?
Is
it
a
drop
in
quality?
How
much
and
what
what
can
be
done
with
the
the
new
product
as
opposed
to
what
could
be
done
today
with
with
the
product
from
orga
world
Letten.
E
F
So
the
enhanced
contract
will
allow
Orgaworld,
formerly
to
use
their
organic
material
in
a
variety
of
different
ways.
A
lot
of
that
material
will
be
applied,
land
applied
to
farmer's
fields
as
a
nutrient.
They
will
also
be
allowed
to
do
other
beneficial
agricultural
products
with
that
compost,
so
we're
just
formalizing
it
in
the
new
amended
agreement.
G
F
F
G
F
G
And
could
finance
staff
clarify
to
us
what
the
net
actual
cost
is
to
taxpayers?
We
hear
about
the
15
cent
per
month
cost,
but,
given
that
the
threshold
that
the
annual
tonnage
threshold
is
being
changed
from
eighty
to
75,000,
there
seems
to
be
a
significant
savings
there.
So
is
the
net
result
for
the
City
of
Ottawa,
including
our
tax
payers,
positive.
H
G
H
2.7
million
is
an
estimation
of
what
we
would
continue
to
be
sending
in
terms
of
peak
leaf
and
yard
waste
separately,
collected
peak
and
leaf
to
reach
that
80,000.
Now
that
we're
bringing
it
down
to
75,000
we're
almost
eliminating
that,
and
so
that's
an
estimation
of
peak
leaf
and
yard
waste
that
would
have
had
would
have
gone
to
Orgaworld
just
to
meet
the
80,000.
But.
G
We
don't
understand,
I,
don't
understand
we're
paying
for
80,000
now,
even
though
we're
not
using
80,000
so
there's
pressure
to
reduce
the
annual
tonnage
to
make
it
more
realistic
to
what
people
thought
were
actually
putting
in
their
green
bins
and
you've
come
up
with
an
annual
tonnage
of
75,000
and
orga
warded
or
the
world
is
agreeing
to
this.
So
forget
the
15
cents.
For
the
you
know,
the
rot,
revised
prices
to
add
plastics.
Is
that
reduction,
though
not
a
savings
to
the
City
of
Ottawa.
H
G
H
The
increase
to
process
plastic
bag
goes
from
$110
224
dollars,
so
it's
not
a
slight
increase
but
is
much
smaller
than
the
current
contract,
because
in
current
contract
we'd
be
paying
one
hundred
fifty
one
dollars
for
the
enhanced
service.
So
there
is
an
increase
in
the
price,
but
the
reduction
put
or
pay
helps
to
manage
that
overall
increase.
So.
E
Chair
at
the
as
we
as
we
go
along
this
contract,
as
Marilyn
had
mentioned,
will
start
to
hive
off
morally
Kinnaird
ways
to
trail
more
kitchen,
ways
to
or
the
world
the
collection
contracts
are
going
to
be
returned
in
2020
and-
and
there
has
been
some
discussion
here
today
about.
Why
would
you
send
any
leaf
and
yard
waste
to
work
a
world?
It's
expensive?
The
problem
with
that
is
the
collection
costs
to
separately,
collect,
leaf
and
yard
waste
throughout
the
year
far
exceeds
any
savings
you
would
get
by
taking
it
to
trail
Road.
E
E
G
I
would
really
prefer
not
to
wait
until
in
2019
when
the
green
bin
program
is
expanded
to
permit.
If
this
committee
and
council
approves
us
the
collection
of
waste
with
plastic,
to
wait
X
number
of
months
or
years
to
see
how
it
goes
to,
then
try
and
convince
landlords
to
be
a
part
of
this
I
think
the
time
here
is
now.
G
If
we
have
to
sell
Issei
look,
your
residents
have
really
no
way
to
leave
their
units
to
collect
their
organics
to
come
down
into
the
basement,
to
dump
it
into
a
pot
that
solved
now,
because
they
can
use
either
a
compostable
or
a
non
combustible
bag
to
do
so.
I'm
I'm
really
frustrated
the
number
of
multi-unit
buildings
in
my
ward
that
don't
offer
the
service
and
they're
part
of
the
overall
solution
too.
G
I,
rarely
see
not
saying
they
don't
exist
because
I
do
see
them
on
the
sides
of
the
garbage
trucks.
You
know
public
campaigns
to
get
people
more
engaged
and
involved.
The
last
question
for
now
is
I.
Just
want
you
to
take
this
committee
through
the
process
of
an
actual
plastic
bag
filled
with
organics
I
put
it
in
my
green
bin.
It
gets
collected
talk
to
us
about
the
process,
particularly
how
that
plastic
gets
pulled
out
of
the
system,
because
you
and
I
have
talked
about
this
when
you
came
to
my
office.
G
F
So
all
the
ways
coming
into
Orgaworld
is
shredded.
That's
everything
currently
is
shredded
and
will
continue
to
be
shredded.
It's
then
put
into
tunnels
where
there's
spigots
in
the
floor
that
blow
air
through
the
waste
and
then
at
the
end
of
the
process.
It
is
screened
and
there's
basically
two
trommel
screens
that
take
out
all
the
inner
granite
material
and
includes
the
plastics,
so
those
materials
are
currently
being
sent
to
landfill
for
disposal.
B
J
F
That
is
a
part
of
the
dispute
with
Orgaworld
as
their
inability
to
produce
double
a
compost.
To
my
knowledge,
they
have
produced
virtually
no
double
a
compost,
as
required
in
the
contract.
So
this
is
a
negotiated
outcome,
so
we're
allowing
them
different
beneficial
use
products
as
an
alternative
to
the
double
ray,
but
they
are
also
going
to
give
us
two
thousand
tonnes
per
year
of
double
a
compost.
Out
of
this
process
is.
F
J
F
F
J
F
F
J
F
J
F
J
F
J
J
F
J
F
Nasm
is
a
well
used
product
here
in
Ontario,
so
certainly
the
organics
framework
from
the
Ministry
of
the
Environment
actually
encourages
products
like
NASM
to
be
used
on
agricultural
lands.
So
we
know
that
the
local
farmers
liked
this
product
and
they're
used
to
using
it
and
they've
had
no
issues
with
it.
Talk.
J
F
B
K
J
F
J
J
F
So
right
now
City
of
Ottawa
at
50%
for
curbside
we're
at
in
the
middle
of
the
province.
There
are
some
municipalities
who
do
much
better
and
they
have
incentivized
programs
that
drive
that
participation.
We
will
be
coming
back
in
the
next
term
of
council
with
a
strategy
on
how
to
move
forward.
What.
F
J
E
Current
budget
is
$280,000,
however,
we're
leveraging
the
savings
that
will
achieve
in
2018
as
a
ramp
up
period
of
about
three
hundred
sixty
thousand
dollars,
and
then
we're
use
we're
going
to
be
putting
forth
another
three
hundred
and
thirty
thousand
dollars
next
year
to
get
the
program
growing.
That's
in
addition
to
the
two
eighty
which
would
be
about
six
hundred
ten
thousand
I
can't
speak
to
what
other
miss
apologies
are
doing,
but
maybe
I
could
get
our
colleagues
and
corporate
communications
to
elaborate
a
little
bit.
L
Mr.
chair,
so
we
will
be
conducting
market
research
in
the
coming
months
to
identify
the
specific
audiences
and
create
a
baseline
to
accurately
measure
and
provide
data
to
adjust
a
communications
plan
as
required,
and
this
is
consistent
with
the
recommendations
included
in
the
2011
Auditor
General's
report
and
part
of
our
market.
Research
will
include
reviewing
the
communications
plans
of
other
municipalities
and
stakeholders
and
sharing
those
lessons
learned
and
this
market
research
will
look
at
the
city's
diversion
program
as
a
whole,
with
a
focus
on
the
green
bins.
L
We
won't
just
be
looking
at
the
Korean
bin
specifically,
and
the
communications
planet
of
robust
communications
plan
will
be
developed
with
two
primary
objectives:
the
first
being
the
positive
education
and
promotion,
so
informing
residents
of
what
goes
where
and
then.
Secondly,
showing
the
public.
How
easy
it
is
to
use
in
this
communications
plan
will
be
shared
in
the
coming
months.
B
B
J
I
I
Mr.
chair,
under
the
contract
as
it
exists
today,
overworld
would
require
the
city's
approval
for
accepting
residential
organics
from
another
municipality,
either
in
Ontario
Quebec,
which
they
might
be
authorized
to
under
their
certificate
of
approval.
There
was
no
change
proposed
to
that.
So,
under
the
revised
contract,
Ottawa
would
would
maintain
that
veto
for
want
of
a
better
term
and.
E
J
And
there
there
you
go,
I,
see
I
councillor,
Brockington
and
referred
to
residential
waste.
Multi
multi
residential-
and
this
is
my
last
set
of
questions
I
see.
I-
is
also
a
big
part-
institutional,
commercial,
industrial,
fully
on
board
with
with
getting
our
multi
multi
residential
units.
What
can
we
do
as
part
of
our
corporate
comms.
J
F
F
F
K
Thank
You
chair
so
am
I
to
understand,
then
that
the
really
the
only
reason
this
report,
everything
else
being
the
same,
doesn't
specify
compostable
bags
as
opposed
to
regular
plastic
bags
is
cost.
So
it's
it's
because
you
don't
think
that
those
folks
who
today
are
not
using
the
green
bin
and
therefore
those
who
are
today
are
already
subsidizing.
K
E
The
other
note
of
the
compostable,
even
though
they're
fully
compostable
or
we're
a
right
word
advised
by
the
industry,
that
they
are
the
retention
time
in
order
world's
plant,
isn't
sufficient
to
achieve
that
fully
full
compostable,
'ti
and
I
think
it
was
stated
of
up
to
20
days
or
sixty
days
yeah,
so
that
wouldn't
fully
break
down
and
Nord
world's
facility,
but
they
are.
But
people
are
certainly
you
know.
As
I
said.
E
K
You
suggested
that
by
allowing
plastic
bags
you
eat
that
we
would
be
diverting
between
forty
and
sixty
three
percent
of
organic
waste
by
2023
from
from
the
landfill.
What?
What
exactly
is
that
based
on?
What's?
What's
it
I?
Just
don't
I,
don't
see
the
evidence
in
front
of
me
so
I
don't
know
what
those
numbers
are
based
on
and
I
don't
and
it's
I
know.
K
K
And
did
they
did
they
look
at?
Would
we
get
the
same
diversion
rate
with
just
compostable
bags
like?
Was
it
I?
Think
I?
Look
at
you
know
one
of
the
one
of
the
things
I'm
struggling
with
is
this,
of
course,
I
want
more
waste
diverted
from
the
landfill,
but
I
just
don't
see,
I,
don't
underst.
Why,
today
we're
not
looking
at
other
measures?
At
the
same
time,
I
mean
we
hear
that
we're
going
to
do
you
know
more
public
education
campaign,
I
haven't,
but
we've
been
doing
that
for
two
three
four
years.
K
Why
are
we
doing
this
like
I,
don't
have
to
I
I
can't
support
the
recommendation
today,
because
it's
not
robust
enough
there's
not
enough
here
that
says
to
me:
we
are
taking
this
seriously.
We
are
going
to
do
everything
we
can
to
ensure
that
people
are
that
that
were
diverting
waste
from
from
our
landfill,
clear
bag
program.
K
You
know
I
limits
on
the
number
of
bags.
I,
don't
think
we
ever
decrease
the
the
limit
of
the
number
of
egg
there's.
Nothing
makes
me
crazier
when
I
walk
around
and
I
see
five
black
garbage
bags,
no
blue
bin,
no
black,
been
in
no
green
box,
because
I
know
what's
in
them
all
right
like
it's
and
there's
no
there's
no
penalty.
For
that,
there's
nothing
that
we're
doing
to
say
to
those
folks.
K
You
know
you
need
to
divert
it's
not
up
to
the
rest
of
us
to
pay
for
you
and
not
just
in
our
program
today,
but
going
forward
when
we
have
to
open
up
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
worth
of
landfills
and
never
mind
the
social
and
the
environmental
cost.
To
that,
we're
ignoring
that
today,
like
we
haven't,
even
we
haven't
even
turned
our
minds
to
that,
so
it
just
for
me:
I,
don't
see
I,
don't
see
the
evidence.
I
don't
know
like
I,
don't
even
know
how
much
is
too
much
plastic.
K
So,
if
I
put
a
big
plastic
garbage
bag
in
my
big
green
bin
and
then
every
day,
I
pick
up
dog
waste
and
I,
throw
out
garlic
and
organic
waste
in
I,
don't
know
garbage
bags,
Loblaws
bags
or
or
bread
bags.
How
much?
How
much
plastic
is
too
much
plastic
going
to
Orgaworld?
Do
we
know
that?
What
if
what
if
half
of
our
green
bin
becomes
filled
with
plastic
bags?
What,
if
a
quarter,
what,
if
3/4
like
what
is
the
amount?
How
much
plastic
is
too
much
plastic.
E
We
could
have
moved
forward
the
again
as
I
said,
I
think.
The
purpose
of
this
program
is
to
get
this
in
place,
get
people
using
it,
remove
the
barriers
to
participating
in
the
green
bin
program
and
then
to
come
forward
early
next
term,
a
council
with
the
Refresh
of
the
Ottaway
strategy
and
to
the
councillors
point.
There
are
lots
of
levers
that
we
could
pull.
E
We
could
pull
enforcement
mandatory
programs,
bag
limits,
user
pay,
container,
subscription,
clear
plastic
bags,
I,
don't
think
any
of
us
know
currently
today
what
is
the
right
program
for
Ottawa
all
those
programs
have
downsides
to
in
terms
of
illegal
dumping,
etc.
So
I
think
we
want
to
do
our
due
diligence.
We
want
to
get
this
program,
this
very
positive
program
that
removes
barriers
to
our
residents
in
place,
get
them
up,
get
them
used
to
using
it
in
foot,
reinforce
positively
the
use
of
the
green
bin
program
and
then
come
back
in
the
next
term.
E
Er
Council
with
a
well
thought
out
plan
that
has
actually
been
considered
consulted
on
by
our
residents.
In
terms
of
the
question
of
how
many,
how
much
plastic
is
too
much
plastic
I
can
tell
you
because
I've
been
there,
the
London
or
the
world
plant
receives
primarily
waste
and
plastics
from
the
Greater
Toronto
Area,
and
they
manage
it.
Fine,
so
I,
don't
anticipate
us
getting
to
the
point
where
were
experiencing
operational
issues
because
of
the
amount
of
plastic
we're
collecting
in
the
green
gun
in.
K
The
Dylan
reports
did
they
indicate
what
increase
in
the
use
of
single
use
bags
would
be
across
the
board.
Now
that
folks
think.
Well,
you
know
what
it
can
go
in
a
green
bin.
Anything
you
know
better
than
nothing
so
rather
than
if
I'm
going
to
start
to
use
my
green
bin,
which
I'm
skeptical
that
people
will
use
a
green
bin
just
because
of
a
plastic
bag.
But
but
let's
say
they
were
you
know
and
there's
got
to
be.
K
F
K
F
Not
10%
--ax,
sorry,
if
there
was
diapers
in
there
there
is.
You
know
that
produces
significant
amount
of
residuals.
Our
program
does
not
include
diaper
waste
at
all.
Those
plastics
are
screened
out
at
the
end
of
the
process,
and
so
there's
and
the
the
product,
the
NASM
products
or
all
of
these
beneficial
reuse
products
are
regulated
by
the
Ministry
of
the
Environment
and
climate
change,
so
they
have
to
still
adhere
to
all
the
regulations
that
are
in
place.
If.
K
There's
a
green
bin
and
your
your
employees
or
our
contractors
are
picking
up
garbage
and
green
bin
and
the
green
bin.
Now,
rather
than
having
a
paper
bag,
it's
got
a
plastic
dark
black
plastic
bag.
Tied
up
you
don't
know,
what's
in
it
could
be
garbage.
How
will
we
regulate
that?
How
will
we
ensure
that?
What
is
in
those
bags
that
are
opaque,
that
that
they
are
actually
organics,
that
there
aren't
diapers
in
them?
For
example,
yeah.
F
And
that's
really
difficult
to
do
and
we
do
so
part
of
the
Dylan's
work.
Is
they
actually
do
acknowledge
that
there
will
be
higher
residuals
coming
out
of
that
plant,
but
those
are
residuals
that
would
be
going
to
landfill
anyways.
So
while
it
may
be
in
the
inappropriate
bin,
it
is
still
going
to
go
to
landfill.
Just
like
it
was
before.
F
F
A
The
choice
that
I'm
being
asked
and
I
have
a
question
for
legal
about
about
the
decision
we're
making
today,
although
I
think
it's
fairly
clear
to
all
of
us.
The
the
choice
that
were
being
asked
today
is
to
accept
the
contract
that
you've
negotiated.
Congratulations.
I
mean
there's
much
to
commend,
obviously
in
the
contract
that
you've
negotiated,
but
it
is
a
contract
that
you've
negotiated
that
allows
plastic
into
the
green
bin
and
that's
going
to
result
in
the
perpetuation
of
the
use
of
plastic
by
residents.
A
You
know
I.
It
provides
a
bit
of
a
virtue
to
some
of
the
single
source
bags.
You
know
where
somebody
might
be
tempted
to
stop
using
those
bags,
the
tea
bags
from
the
store
and
bring
their
own
reusable
bags
now
they're
thinking.
Well,
you
know
what
I
can
reuse
that
bag
and
put
my
compost
in
it,
throw
it
in
the
gray
in
the
green
bin.
A
I
suspect
that
if
we
were
to
say
you
can
use
compostable
bags
in
your
green
bin
that
we
would
see
a
moose
tin,
the
number
of
people
using
them,
especially
if
we
were
able
to
make
them
easy,
too
easy
to
buy.
If
we
were
to
educate
people
about
what
logos
to
look
for
so
I'm
really
concerned
about
the
choice
for
being
nest
to
make
one
which
is
based
on
I,
don't
think
enough
evidence,
certainly
not
the
evidence.
A
We've
seen
and
the
other
choice,
which
is
to
to
see
the
perpetuation
of
the
use
of
plastic
and
more
of
that,
finding
its
way
into
our
environment
from
from
legal.
If
we
were
to,
as
a
council
say,
the
only
bags
that
we're
going
to
allow
into
the
stream
are
compostable
bags
that
adhere,
for
example,
to
the
BPI
standard.
I.
Think
I've
heard
you
say
that
that
means
that
we
have
to
go
back
and
renegotiate
the
contract.
I
Mr.
chair,
what's
what's
in
front
of
the
committee
and
ultimately
in
front
of
councillors,
is
the
entirety
of
a
package?
No
I
think
there
are
a
number
of
questions
that
come
out
of
the
way
that
that's
been
framed
in
terms
of
again,
the
package
is
right
now:
the
inclusion
of
plastic
bags,
composting
plastic
bags,
the
inclusion
of
dog
waste.
I
So
two
things
to
my
that
one.
The
analysis
that
underpins
the
recommendation-
that's
been
reviewed
by
the
Auditor
General
is
founded
on
the
inclusion
of
plastics
in
their
entirety.
Should
the
committee
and
council
ultimately
reject
the
recommendation
as
a
package
that,
in
my
view,
in
a
that,
is
the
end
of
it?
I
This
package
has
been
approved
by
the
order
of
board
of
directors,
and
it
is
that
package
in
its
entirety
that
is
being
presented
in
front
of
comedian
council
if
in
some
future
time
following
you
know
a
review
of
the
program,
the
council
decides
that
it's
going
to
restrict
plastic
bags
to
only
compostable
and
again,
with
whatever
operational
challenges
that
might
have
with
it.
I,
don't
think
at
that
point:
you're
going
to
be
stuck
with
having
to
go
back
and
renegotiate
the
contract.
A
What
would
happen
if
council
were
to
in
recommendation
to
remove
the
words
plastic
bags,
and
so
if
we
were
to
remove
the
the
reference
to
plastics,
so
recommendation
two
says,
including
the
expansion
of
the
green
bin
program,
to
include
dog
waste?
What
does
that
mean
in
terms
of
the
discussions
that
we
have
to
have
with
with
or
the
world
after
that.
I
A
H
E
Yeah
I
think
it
would
also
undermine
the
business
case
and
and
in
my
mind,
as
mr.
whitest
stated,
I
think
it
would
take
us
right
back
to
day
one
of
the
negotiations
we'd
have
to
go
back
through
negotiations
which
took
up
to
almost
better
part
of
the
year
and
then
development
of
a
very
comprehensive
business
case
for
the
Auditor
General
to
review.
E
F
Lot
of
that
boost
is
actually
by
including
the
pet
waste
the
dog
waste
into
the
program,
so
there
is
a
significant
tonnage
of
material
that
is
currently
going
to
the
landfill
that
is
probably
much
more
appropriately
going
now
to
an
organics
processing
facility.
So
that's
where
a
lot
of
the
boosts
comes
from
just
in
that
product
alone,
but
then
there's
also
increased
uptake
by
homeowners,
who
are
perhaps
on
the
ledge
or
homeowners,
will
only
partially
use
the
program.
Maybe
they'll
more
fully
use
it.
I
mean
there
is.
A
We
have
mixed
messages
in
the
city
right
now
around
compostable
bags,
a
number
of
people
are
already
taking
advantage
of
compostable
bags
and
and
the
guys
on
the
cruise
when
they
see
them,
seem
to
be
happy
to
turn
a
blind
eye
to
the
fact
that
people
are
using
those
bags
with
clear
messaging
to
say.
Compostable
bags
are
okay
in
our
bins
and
here's
the
logo
that
you
need
to
look
for.
Could
we
not
achieve
the
same
hit.
F
It's
my
understanding
and
municipalities
that
just
use
composite
bags.
They
end
up
with
actually
a
lot
of
non
compostable
bags
in
their
system
anyways.
It's
it's
a
really
hard
program
to
enforce
and
police,
and
so
we've
come
up
with
this
program
that
should
be
simple
for
the
resident
to
use
it's
accessible.
They
have
the
materials
in
their
house
that
they
can
use,
they
don't
have
to
purchase
anything
special
and
it
just
will
further
encourage
them
to
participate
in
the
program
it.
A
Just
sounds
like
a
lot
of
intuitive
kind
of
assumptions,
rather
than
being
backed
up
by
current
up-to-date
market
research
and
program.
What
consumers
wishes
and
desires
are
okay
and
I'm
struggling
as
well
to
struggling
as
well
with
respect
to
the
fact
that
we
are
proposing
not
to
allow
the
compostable
plastic
products
such
as
the
the
pods
and
the
cutlery,
because
we
are
worried,
as
it
says,
in
the
motion
that
it
risks
introducing
contamination
to
the
new
waste
stream.
But
we
are
okay
with
contamination
of
the
waste
stream
with
some
level
of
plastics.
A
E
Sure
I
think
I'll
be
quite
honest.
Are
the
staffs
staffs
lens
on
this
and
keep
in
mind
that
the
bill
151
has
changed?
The
landscape,
Ontario
municipalities
across
the
province
have
bounded
together
and
they
are
negotiating
currently
with
producers
for
inclusion
of
materials
in
blue
and
black
box
and
we're
singing
from
the
same
song
sheet.
E
There
is
no
such
process
on
the
green
balk
on
the
green
bin
side
and,
and
we
heard
from
industry,
and
they
admitted
themselves.
This
is
a
bit
of
a
barrier.
There
has
to
be
a
mechanism
for
products,
single
use,
products
that
people
are
selling
and
offering
from
to
come
into
our
systems.
Now
the
products
is
taking
care
of
it
on
the
blue
and
black
box
side
and
that's
great.
E
It
would
have
been
nice
if
they'd
taken
care
of
it
on
the
green
bin
side,
but
in
absence
to
that,
miss
ties
are
left
to
their
own
device
and
I
would
suspect,
as
the
province
goes
down.
The
road
of
producer
responsibility
on
the
blue
and
black
box,
more
and
more
products
are
going
to
want
to
become
compostable,
which
is
a
great
solution.
I
think
if
you
can
create
a
compostable
product,
it's
a
great
solution,
but
it
shouldn't
be
a
free
pass
into
the
green
bin.
And
that's
exactly
what
you
heard
industry
say
this
morning.
A
And
then,
finally,
how
do
you
react
to
the
presentation
by
BPI,
because
I've
also
heard
that
consumers
there's
confusion
around
what
standards
are
actually
compostable,
etc?
What
I
heard
from
BP
I
was
actually
very
clear
and
seems
to
be
based
on
some
rigorous,
rigorous
science
and
methodologies.
How
do
you
react
to
what
they
told
you
this
morning
about
the
desirability
of
using
a
BPI
standard
to
easily
identify
to
consumers
which
products
they
should
be
buying.
F
So
in
Ontario
there
is
no
standard
for
biodegradable
or
compostable
products,
and
that
is
something
that
has
to
be
developed
in
this
organics
framework.
So
the
province
understands
that
there
aren't
any
standards
and
they
are
committed
to
working
towards
a
standard.
But
in
the
absence
of
that
standard,
we're
left
open
with.
A
F
A
Right,
I'm
not
sure
I
imagined
that
this
will
probably
pass
it
will
pass
Council
likely,
but
in
the
event
that
it
does,
what
is
and
I
would
prefer
that
it
didn't,
because
I
think
we
should
be
going
back
in
to
them
and
talking
about
using
compostable
bags,
only
I'll
be
voting
against
this,
but
in
the
event
that
it
does
pass.
What
is
the
game
plan
to
get
us
to
some
proactive
measures
that
could
eventually
eliminate
plastic
out
of
the
stream?
Using
the
you
know
clear
bags
using
the
various
different
bands
on
organics?
F
A
We're
hearing
frustration
on
the
table
that
you
know
it
hasn't
been
dealt
with
it
in
this
term
and
as
we,
a
number
of
us
have
to
go
to
the
doors
over
the
course
of
this
summer,
and
we
want
to
be
able
to
talk
to
people
about
what
our
strategy
is
to
to
increase
diversion
to
get
plastics
out
of
our
our
waste
stream
etc.
So,
all
right,
thank
you.
M
Thank
mr.
chair,
so
so
I
missed
part
of
the
question.
So,
if
I,
if
I'm
repeating
something
that
somebody
else
has
already
asked,
let
me
know
so
as
I
understand
the
proposed
contract
there's
nothing
in
the
proposed
contract
that
stops
people
from
putting
in
compostable
bags
correct
it's
correct
chair.
So
it's
really
a
question
of
how
we
how
we
message
what
we
want
people
to
do,
whether
we
say
we
want
you
use
the
bags
you
already
have
at
home
from
your
bread
or
your
milk,
or
we
want
you
to
go.
E
I
think
our
messaging
as
chair
as
I've
said
before
is
we
want
people
to
use
whatever
it's
going
to
take
to
get
them
in
the
green
bin?
So
if
it's
a
paper
bag,
if
it's
a
plastic
bag,
if
it's
a
compostable
paper
bag,
compostable
plastic
bag,
that's
what
we
want
them
to
use,
we're
just
trying
to
make
it
as
wide
as
possible
and
as
easy
as
possible
for
them
to
participate
right.
M
And
and
I
think
one
of
the
points
you
made
was
was
we
have
to
bolster
our
education
piece
and
and
I'm
wondering
because
we
do
have
an
issue
admit
it
yourself
for
lagging
behind.
We
do
have
an
issue
in
terms
of
getting
people
interested
and
excited
about
using
the
green
bin
have
have
we
considered
reaching
out
to
some
of
our
community
or
corporate
partners
as
part
of
the
education
process.
M
I
Can
start
mr.
chair
I,
don't
think
Community
Council
run
any
run
into
any
significant
difficulties
with
encouraging
you
know
corporate
participation
in
city
programs,
or
you
know,
encouraging
corporate
participation
with
particular
messaging
I.
Think
once
if
you
get
into
a
you,
know
a
situation
where
you,
as
you
say
now,
you're
recommending
one
product
or
one
company
over
another
or
mandating
a
particular
manufacturer.
L
Mr.
kair,
the
communications
plan
that
will
be
developed
will
include
a
number
of
different
tactics
from
everything
from
traditional
advertising:
social
media,
as
well
as
working
with
stakeholders
to
create
champions
of
the
program
and
to
to
speak
to
how
easy
the
program
is
to
use,
so
that
will
include
both
community
stakeholders
as
well
as
others
and
and
we're
open
to
any
and
all
ideas
on
that
regard.
Okay,.
M
Thank
you,
I
mean
I'm
glad
still
in
the
room,
I
think
so
they're
going
to
be
providing
bags
for
cleaning
the
capital
or
those.
But
then
you
can't
answer
this
question,
but
I
just
put
it
out.
There,
I
mean
if
the
bags
provided
with
the
compostable
bags
and
people
could
feel
them
touch
them
see
them
see
how
they
use
and
and
see
that
it's
it's.
It's
not
that
odd.
Not
that
strange,
so
I
just
put
that
out
there
as
as
a
suggestion,
maybe
we're
too
far
along
in
this
particular
Queen
the
capital
but
yeah
I.
M
Think
for
a
lot
of
people,
it's
sort
of
the
fear
of
the
unknown.
What
is
this,
how
does
it
work?
What's
it
going
to
cost
what
can
I
put
in
it?
What
can
I
do
with
it?
If
people
actually
had
an
opportunity
to
use
the
product
gratis,
if
you
will,
then
they
may
decide
that
they
like
the
product
anyway,
that's
just
a
suggestion.
The
the
other
questions
that
I
wanted
to
ask
were
about
the
poop
pilot
so
to
speak.
F
M
F
M
M
You
can
work
at
dog
parks,
but
I
think
should
be
looking
at
regular
parks
where
dogs
might
happen
to
be
because
and
I
speaking
as
a
councillor
and
I
think
probably
most
people
round
table
the
complaints
we
get
on
it
so
much,
but
dog
parks
but
regular
play
parks.
If
you
will,
where
people
have
let
their
dogs
leave
a
deposit
behind
so
yeah.
F
M
C
Thank
you
at
the
MoMA
I
just
have
two
more
speakers
on
the
list.
I
was
reminded
by
the
chair
of
the
Police
Services
Board
that
they
need
the
room
at
5:00
and
need
time
to
set
up
I
hate,
to
curtail
debate
or
even
imply
I'm,
curtailing
debate,
but
I'm,
asking
committee
members
that
if
your
question
has
already
been
asked
in
three
or
four
different
ways,
please
consider
not
asking
it
in
the
fourth
or
fifth
way
so
councillors
rally
and
then
the
blocking
can
happen.
Thank.
N
F
N
N
I'm
referring
to
compostable
one's
going
in
the
green
bin
and
then
the
issue
that
was
raised
pertaining
to
plastic
ones
being
put
in
there
when
they're
only
supposed
to
be
compostable,
so
that
the
reason
we
can't
accept
compostable
is
the
infiltration
of
the
plastic
ones
into
that
stream.
Right
well,.
E
I
think
there's
a
couple
of
reasons
chair
that
we
as
I
said
previously.
We
weren't
party
to
the
tests
that
have
been
done
so
City
would
like
to
do
that
and
then
try
and
work
on
the
producer
responsibility
piece
of
including
new
products
into
the
green
bin,
but
certainly
I,
think
the
councillors
hitting
on
a
good
point
we're
a
big
part
of
the
confusion,
lies
on
the
labeling
of
the
individual
items.
So
potentially
that
would
be
one
way
to
get
across.
What's
compostable
and
what's
not
compostable.
F
N
N
And
secondly,
we
were
promised
that
if
we
didn't
permit
plastics
or
compostable
plastic
into
the
green
bin,
that
the
green
bin
would
still
have
incredible
take-up
and
the
take
up
would
not
be
diminished
by
the
fact
that
people
couldn't
use
plastic.
But
in
the
period
from
the
start
of
the
program
to
now
I've
seen
two
things
happen.
One
of
them
is
at
home.
My
family
have
become
very
dedicated
green
bin
users.
N
So
some
may
say
it's
a
an
excuse,
but
I've
seen
it
come
up
unprompted
too
many
times
to
think
that
it's
not
a
reason.
So
I
really
believe
I
believe
back
then
that
it
would
be
a
reason
that
we
keep
people
from
participating
and
it
I
think
has
proven
itself
to
be
a
reason
over
the
past
seven
years,
and
certainly
the
numbers
bear
that
out.
So
a
member
for
minute,
P
and
Mayor
Ben
Franklin
once
told
me
that
in
local
government
the
perfect
is
the
enemy
of
the
good.
N
So
in
this
case
it
may
be
perfect
to
have
no
plastic
in
the
in
the
green
bins.
But
if
the
ultimate
goal
is
participation,
then
whether
or
not
we
want
plastic
in
the
green
bin,
we
have
to
see
that
plastic
is
the
key
to
a
big
chunk
of
the
population.
Getting
involved
in
this,
and
after
that,
my
recommendation
on
messaging
is
simple
bandwagon
advertising.
N
It
worked
with
the
blue
box
and
the
black
box
telling
everyone.
Everyone
else
is
using
these
boxes
and
that's
usually
all
it
takes
to
convince
people
to
use
it.
My
dad
does
not
know
why
he
uses
the
blue
box
in
the
black
box
every
week,
but
he
uses
the
blue
box
and
black
box
every
week,
because
everybody
else
does
so
I
think
if
you
remove
the
yuck
factor
and
you
and
you
give
people
or
make
people
aware
that
everyone
else
on
an
incremental
basis
is
using
this
I
think
it's
going
to
be
very
successful.
C
O
E
E
Understandably,
they
haven't
even
ordered
anything
at
this
point
because
they
don't
know
if
they
have
a
deal,
so
they
have
to
source
the
machinery
which
is
an
easy
to
source,
and
then
they
have
to
do
their
entire
setup,
including
their
a
abatement
system
that
they're
putting
in
place,
and
it's
also
contingent
on
mo
ECC
I
shouldn't,
say
approvals
because
they
do
have
a
per
goal
to
take
the
material
now.
But
what
they
do
have
to
do
is
go
back
to
the
mo
ECC
with
a
plan
to
get
that
approved
so
to
be
conservative.
E
O
E
O
E
Just
to
say
that
we
weren't
part
about
testing
and
I
think
because
it
is
the
city's
green
bin
program,
we'd
like
to
be
part
of
that
testing,
but
the
other
bigger
problem
is
how
do
we
solve
the
producer
responsibility
now?
Toronto
does
has
again
I've
said
this
a
couple
times
in
absence
of
provincial
framework,
Toronto
has
gone
ahead
and
developed
their
own
framework
and
we're
going
to
probably
follow
on
Toronto's
footsteps
and
and
come
up
with
some
similar
framework.
So
it's
a
question
of
is
the
material
compostable.
E
O
In
terms
of
the
whole
I
appreciate
some
of
the
comments
and
the
delegations
about
the
plastic
and
eliminating
plastic
and
and
we're
introducing
it
now
into
the
green
bin
program
and
and
the
irony
of
that,
but
obviously
diverting
waste.
Is
you
you're
recommending
that
we
do
include
plastic
to
increase
the
divergent
rate,
so
I'm
wondering
if
you
can
sort
of
explain
to
us
what
your
business
case
is
in
terms
of
recommending
an
out
versus?
What's
the
biggest
downside
of
including
plastics
and
keeping
plastics
in
this
program
versus
increasing
the
diversion
rates.
O
E
I
think
the
the
biggest
positive
benefit
of
including
wide
range
of
materials
residents
can
put
their
organic
waste
in
including
plastics,
is
that
they
have
complete
flexibility
to
participate
in
the
program
by
including
a
plastic
bag
that,
as
we've
heard
many
times,
they
already
probably
in
their
house,
pretty
much
removes
any
other
barrier.
It
removes
the
yuck
barrier,
it
removes
the
maggots
in
a
bin
and
removes
the
fruit
flies
in
the
bin
and
I
think
it
makes
it
very
easy
to
participate
in
the
program
so
without
in
in
mind.
O
Is
it
their
direction
and
we've
seen
some
cities
already
banned
plastics
I,
think
Montreal
maybes
blood
has
been
some
sort
of
plastics
in
terms
of
selling
them
and
that
sort
of
thing
isn't
there
provincial?
Are
we
hearing
anything
in
the
future
that
the
province
is
going
to
be
at
some
point
banning
plastics
and
isn't
that
sort
of
you
know
I,
don't
know
when
that's
going
to
happen?
E
I
haven't
heard
anything
coming
out
of
the
provincial
government
about
banning
plastics.
What
we
have
heard
from
the
federal
government
is
moving
to
more
reusable
and
compostable
plastic
bags,
which
again,
as
I,
said
if
they
did,
that
and
regulated
that
that
would
be
perfect
for
our
program,
because
people
would
have
a
cheap,
cheap
access
to
a
compostable
bag
that
they
would
be
bringing
home
the
groceries
in
and
then
using
in
their
grain
bin.
O
So,
finally,
in
terms
of
the
compost
product
right
now
or
girls
that
sells
out
to
farm
farmers
mostly,
is
that
what
it
does
correct,
ok,
and
so
what
would
they
be
doing
with
this
new
material?
We've
heard
a
lot
of
people
raise
this,
but
what's
the
difference
in
terms?
Are
they
still
going
to
be
able
to
use
it
or
how?
How
would
it
be
consumed
now,
when
for
allowing
plastic
it'll.
F
O
F
F
G
G
Concern
with
just
very
briefly
what
staff
raised
about,
and
they
were
talking
about,
a
positive
education
campaign
promoting
it
easy
to
use
all
very
good
stuff,
but
we're
changing
this
plan
because
of
a
certain
group,
a
subset
of
this
of
the
city.
They
don't
want
to
hear
about
the
positives
of
this
program.
They've
already
heard
it.
They
know
how
to
use
the
BIM,
so
we
have
to
it's
almost
like
shock.
G
The
advertising
has
to
be
a
thing,
a
little
more
aggressive
and
I'm
not
going
to
to
do
that
today
with
you,
but
I
think
it's
very
important
that
we
realize
who
we're
targeting
in
that
message
and
tailor
the
message
to
that
specific
group,
and
it
can
be
done
in
many
ways,
but
I
think
it
has
to
be
more
than
just
a
generic
sort
of
light
and
fluffy
type
of
messaging.
But
if
it
comes
back
to
this
committee,
I'd
be
pleased
to
see
that
that's
it.
C
Thank
you,
okay,
I
think.
We've
had
a
lot
of
comments
of
verging
on
debate,
though
mostly
questions
to
this
point.
So
of
course,
I
will
have
to
allow
for
any
councilors
who
want
to
offer
last
comments
or
debate,
but
I
would
say
only
if
you
need
to
if
we
don't
have
anyone
at
the
moment
that
wants
to.
We
have
the
motion
that
I
read
out
at
the
beginning
to
work
with
the
industry
that
produce
various
products.
C
Unless
someone
needs
me
to
read
that
out
again
or
unless
legally
I
need
to
read
it
out
again,
I
would
say
on
that
motion
is
Zach
carried.
Thank
you,
okay,
so
I
will
sum
up
very
briefly
on
what
was
a.
What
is
a
big
issue
and
quite
a
wide-ranging
discussion.
I
think
key
message
that
is,
is
that
this
report
is
delivering
in
terms
of
the
the
plastics
and
the
bags,
and
we
have
to
remember.
There
was
a
whole
lot
more
to
this
renegotiated
contract
than
just
that.
C
So
as
a
caution,
this
report
is
not
trying
to
offer
perfection
it's
trying
to
offer
steps
forward
in
a
number
of
different
areas:
better
value
for
the
taxpayer
in
a
number
of
areas
and
meeting
a
lot
more
people
where
they
are,
as
opposed
to
where
we
hoped
they
would
be,
and
all
proof
than
the
past
tense.
There
were.
The
expectations
counsel
surely
raised
that
no,
we
won't
put
allow
for
liners
because
people
will
participate
or
should
participate
without
it.
C
No
people
have
to
drive
them
to
the
Depot
and
he
tries
to
explain
and
try
to
explain
this
to
me
in
the
Swiss
mentality.
You
had
to
make
it
hard.
You
had
to
make
people
work
for
it.
This
was
a
bit
of
a
Protestant
work
ethic.
If
you
will
that
you
need
to
show
your
neighbors
that
you're
green
and
that
you're
making
the
effort
we
could
hold
out
for
that.
So
that
failed
in
the
end
and
they
had
to
settle
for
a
lower
diversion
rate
and
people
continuing
to
drive.
C
That's
not
a
perfect
parallel
to
where
we
are
today
by
any
means,
but
I
think
it
is
a
bit
of
a
warning
that
this
idea
that
we've
got
to
make
people
work
for
it
and
do
and
do
more
to
qualify
to
be
a
good
citizen.
I,
don't
think,
is
good
governance.
What
we're
doing
today
is
the
opposite.
It's
saying
we
recognize
their
obstacles.
There
are
physical
obstacles.
There
are
people
who
don't
have
storage
space.
There
are
physical
obstacles
in
terms
of
people's
own
ability
to
move
things.
C
There
are
stress
and
challenges
in
people's
daily
schedules
that
prevents
them
from
being
as
good
a
sorter
as
they
might
want
to
be.
There's
transitory
residents
in
the
city,
people
who
are
not
here
for
long
enough
to
understand
how
it
works
in
Ottawa
and
to
do
it
right.
There
are
those
obstacles
and
what
we're
trying
to
do
today
is
to
recognize
that
and
remove
some
of
those
obstacles
and
improve
participation
in
that
way.