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From YouTube: Transit Commission – November 12, 2015
Description
Transit Commission meeting – November 12, 2015 – Audio Stream
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
B
C
C
B
Thank
you,
chair
members
of
Transit
Commission
we're
going
to
walk
you
through
the
draft
2016
transit
services.
Budget
I
want
to
start
off
with
slide
two
which
are
some
of
the
essential
building
blocks
that
are
used
in
development
of
the
draft
budget.
That's
before
you,
the
three
key
funding
areas
that
drive
transit,
customer
fares,
property
taxes
and
other
revenue,
such
as
charters
and
revenue
from
our
advertising
program
with
respect
to
capital,
that's
for
expansion
and
renewal,
the
funding
funding
from
property
taxes,
development
charges
for
some
of
them
and
then
also
senior
levels
of
government.
B
Mr.
chair
I
wanted
to
include
some
metrics
and
the
presentation,
because
I
know
in
our
discussion
will
probably
be
touching
on
some
of
these.
This
comes
from
the
Q
dock.
You
need
an
urban
transit
Association
which
tracks
a
lot
of
data
for
everyone,
and
the
first
one
in
the
top
left
looks
at
ridership
and
it's
up
there
in
terms
of
comparison
for
Partners,
Edmonton
and
Calgary
that
have
light
rail,
so
we're
hovering
around
the
hundred
million
passenger
trips
Calgary
and
Edmonton
that
had
light
rail
for
many
many
years.
B
In
fact,
Denton
had
the
first
light
rail
system
in
all
of
North
America
in
terms
of
a
ridership
of
capita,
the
one
on
the
top
right.
That
is
one
that
I
know
my
peers.
When
they
looked
OC
transferal,
they
consider
s
leaders
in
that
a
ridership
per
capita
when
you
exclude
subway
operations,
Toronto
Montreal,
which
are
high-capacity
operations,
they're
very
impressed
by
that
number,
as
we
should
all
be
in
terms
of
a
very
positive
metric
and
then
on
the
bottom.
B
The
center
is
where
middle
a
packed
on
Direct
operating
cost
per
Rider
and
obviously,
as
we
move
to
light
rail,
our
operating
costs,
a
provider
driven
down
the
key
budget
elements.
The
first
one
is
a
very
important
piece
that
is
used
in
development
of
our
budgets:
its
alignment
with
the
transit
affordability
plan.
That
is
your
macro
plan
that
has
to
be
infused
into
every
proposed
spending
plan
that
we
put
before
you.
We
look
at
all
the
things
that
are
critical
to
our
plan:
capital
contributions,
revenue,
cost
ratio
targets
and
so
forth.
B
It's
your
long-range
plan
that
enables
you
to
afford
not
just
rail
but
other
capital
projects
and
keep
the
system
sustainable
from
a
financial
perspective.
As
you
heard,
the
federal
report,
the
budget
directions
report,
the
next
two
bullets,
2.5
percent
transit
levy,
increases
built-in
and
the
prorated
1.3,
resulting
from
growth
assessment.
The
budget
is
based
on
97
million
customer
trips
on
our
conventional
service
and
800,000
trips
on
that
pair
of
Transpo,
and
our
fare
revenue
is
based
on
189
million
dollars
from
conventional
and
to
learn
from
para.
B
Fair
revenue
increases
anticipated,
generate
2.5%,
additional
revenue
and
you'll
see
how
those
numbers
roll
up
in
a
moment
so
with
respect
to
transit,
funding,
operating
budget
for
C,
transpose
approaching
half
a
billion
dollars
and
that's
broken
down
into
your
operating
cost
of
390
million
dollars,
contributions
to
reserves,
which
are
very,
very
important
in
terms
of
long-range
affordability,
of
62
million
contributions
through
our
pension.
Now,
there's
a
deficit,
that's
being
addressed
at
point
four
million
and
then
debt
charges
which
are
also
critical
to
financial
sustainability
of
almost
38
million
dollars.
B
Within
that
the
customer
affairs
generate
190
per
the
previous
slide.
Property
tax
is
261
million
dollars
and
other
revenue,
which
includes
the
provincial
gas
attack
attacks.
It
generates
38
million
dollars
so
now
I
want
to
go
through
the
various
tranches
of
the
budget
and
then
at
the
end,
there's
a
roll
up
slide.
B
That
brings
it
all
together
in
terms
of
how
all
this
balances
out,
as
you
heard
this
morning
from
the
treasurer
to
acting
treasurer,
the
base
pressures
should
be
addressed
and
need
to
be
addressed
and,
as
you
know,
we're
faced
with
a
deficit
this
year
and
it
was
driven
by
the
expiration
of
the
warranties
on
articulated
bus
fleet,
increased
insurance
claims
and
then
also
look
new
lines
to
align
them
with
the
current
ridership
that
is
before
us.
The
next
bullets,
the
annualization
of
our
2015
service
increase.
You
recall
last
year
we
added
service.
B
So
every
year
you
annualize
that
that
standard
practice
and
saying
what
the
annualization
of
the
fare
increase
that
kicked
in
last
July
and
then
there's
an
adjustment
to
the
pension,
a
pension
plan,
that's
required
to
ensure
it's
sustainable.
The
next
piece
worth
nine
point:
eight
million
dollars.
These
are
the
costs
to
maintain
service.
So
there's
the
2016
cost-of-living
allowances
increments
and
benefit
adjustments.
There's
increase
in
expenditures
for
fleet
maintenance
due
to
inflation.
B
I
want
to
highlight
those
are
known:
inflation
costs,
it's
not
an
across-the-board,
so
the
management
team
has
to
demonstrate
they've
got
signed
contracts
that
have
inflation
provisions
built
into
it.
So
we're
very
particular
about
that.
The
third
bullet,
thanks
to
our
finance
department
and
a
great
work
they're
doing
with
our
hedging
strategy,
you'll
see
there's
some
substantial
savings
on
our
fuel
and
so
we're
gonna
benefit
from
from
that
strategy.
B
Again
this
year
there
are
increased
facility
expenditures
on
utility
costs
and
as
minor
property
lease
costs,
and
then
there's
increase
in
our
contribution
to
reserves
and
debt
charges
and
the
trailing
line,
maintenance
costs
we
had
to
reach
under
the
maintenance
contract
and,
as
you
know,
there's
more
trains
more
signals
so
that
there's
no
significant
surprise
there.
There's
increased
costs,
I'll
associate
with
the
trillion
line
and
that's
been
built
in
so
that's
nine
point:
eight
million
dollars
to
maintain
service
with
respect
to
efficiencies
and
savings.
We
heard
lots
about
this
this
morning.
B
I
want
to
thank
the
management
team
and
and
finance
working
together,
they've
identified
close
to
five
million
dollars
in
efficiencies.
These
are
real.
These
have
been
tested
in
terms
of
ensuring
that
there,
the
first
one
is
our
park-and-ride
lawn
maintenance.
We
pay
for
maintenance,
the
snow,
plow
and
clearing
and
so
forth,
we're
going
to
bundle
up
the
revenues
that
we
get
from
that
and
net
out
the
cost
and
the
the
Delta
will
now
be
charged
to
the
parking
reserve
which
the
treasurer
has
approved.
B
Our
fleet
services
department
has
done
a
very
detailed
analysis
on
gapping
provisions
and
the
reducing
their
capping
provision
sustained
very
significantly,
along
with
position
area
alignments,
as
you
heard
earlier,
this
year
is
part
of
expenditure
control.
We
eliminated
management
positions.
We
also
have
other
positions
that
were
not
filling
and
so
we're
eliminating
those
positions
and
that's
rolled
up
into
the
2.4
million
dollars
number
3.
In
addition
to
the
citywide
discretionary
spending,
freeze
I've
instituted
an
additional
across-the-board
reduction
at
a
which
generates
$400,000.
B
B
The,
as
you
know,
you've
heard
me
say
before
the
affordability
model,
fares
and
Taxation
need
to
keep
pace
and
provide
the
necessary
funds
for
both
your
operating
capital
purposes
and
there's
the
target
of
reaching
to
counsels
goal
of
fifty
five
percent
on
the
revenue
cost
ratio
that
is
before
us
that
we
need
to
strive
for
so
bottom
line.
Fares
need
to
keep
pace
with
costs
and
it
is
troublesome
when
the
revenue
cost
ratio
erodes.
B
So
we
need
to
ensure
that
we
do
the
best
we
can
to
keep
it
either
stable
or
as
close
to
that
55
percent
goal
that
we
can
achieve
so
with
respect
to
use
your
fees
and
revenues.
In
addition
to
the
2.5
on
transit
fares,
I'm
happy
to
advise
that
the
team
has
identified
other
new
revenues.
I
know
many
of
you
have
talked
to
me
about
thinking
outside
the
box
and
we're
doing
that.
The
first
one
is
new
revenues
of
1.5
million
dollars.
B
There's
three
elements
to
that:
the
TD
place,
red/black,
67's
events,
ticket
price
of
the
incremental
costs
and
that's
the
key
word
incremental
cost
of
transit
being
included
in
in
the
ticket
of
an
event
has
been
a
very
successful
operation.
It's
a
very
good
for
transit,
it's
good
for
the
city
and
it's
good
for
elbows
for
putting
out
the
event.
We
are
targeting
large
venues
and
events
in
the
city,
and
we
were
where
we
can
immediately
institute
such
as
Bluesfest
that
the
ticket
price
include
the
incremental
cost
of
transit.
B
As
part
of
that,
I
can
tell
you
that
I've
had
organizers
come
to
me
looking
to
explore
this
model,
because
it's
a
good
marketing
tool
and
the
costs
are
nominal.
When
you
look
at
some
of
the
tickets
are
charging
so
there's
$200,000
I
will
be
coming
forward
on
Bluesfest
I
want
to
thank
our
Planning
Department
and
mr.
Scrooge's
team,
any
new
condo
that
gets
built
in
this
city.
The
developer
is
required
to
pay
one
year's
worth
of
transit
and
so
that's
generating
$130,000
spoken
to
mr.
Moser.
We
want
to
expand
that
even
further.
B
So
if
there's
ideas
in
that
regard
in
the
planning
department
and
the
planning
rules
permitted,
mr.
Moser
is
surely
on
site
to
get
even
more
innovative
and
drive
that
number
up
and
then
the
last
one
is
the
Canadian
Tire
Center
again.
This
is
the
incremental
cost
to
provide
all
those
events
that
are
held
at
the
Canadian
Tire
Center,
this
one's
a
little
bit
more
complex.
B
We
have
to
do
a
detailed
analysis
on
the
site
plan
and
the
history
of
that
file
to
see
if
we
can
impose
this
on
them,
so
that
one
the
negotiations
and
discussions
will
be
underway
on
that
one
there.
So
the
last
piece
that
we
push
the
envelope
on-
and
you
know
I-
want
to
thank
Pattinson
advertising
and
met
with
ourselves
last
week
and
we
were
very
direct
with
them.
B
We're
looking
for
revenue
streams,
they've
identified
of
ideas
that
we
have
not
thought
about,
and
so
we're
putting
300,000
dollars
in
new
revenue
and
that's
on
top
of
the
increased
revenue
that
they've
already
stepped
up
and
delivered
through
your
contractual
arrangements.
So
that
generates
three
point:
nine
million
dollars
worth
of
additional
user
fees
and
revenue.
So
how
all
that
rolls
up
is
you
have
a
2015
based
adjustments
that
I
talked
about
of
seven
point.
Eight
to
maintain
your
service
is
nine
point:
eight
million
dollars.
B
There
is
no
growth,
there's
no
expansion
to
service
and
there's
no
financial
capacity.
To
do
that.
The
only
thing
that
exists
is
the
Courtley
adjustments
that
we
work
with
ward
councillors
and
commissioners
on
to
do
any
adjustments
within
the
budget
on
both
revenue
of
four
million
dollars
and
our
savings
efficiencies
of
almost
five
million
dollars
and
the
budget
target.
Nine
million
is
achieved
with
that.
We
have
a
budgeted
revenue,
cost
ratio
of
51.6%
these
next.
B
These
next
number
of
slides
are
the
low
ridership
first
and
last
trips,
we've
listed
them
by
route
number
and
the
way
they
would
work
is
to
implement
them.
If
you
approve
this,
the
last
trips
last
day
of
operation
would
be
Friday,
April
22nd.
So
basically,
a
2/3
of
you
is
built
into
the
base
budget,
and
we
can
certainly
provide
additional
information
as
I'm
sure
many
of
you
will
have
questions
on
these
in
terms
of
the
numbers
and
so
forth.
Terms
of
the
transit
capital
budget
are
just
some
highlights.
B
Bus
refurbishment
vehicle
modifications
replacements
over
11
million
dollars,
renew
operational
assets,
that's
to
maintain
what
we
have
and
keep
it
in
the
state
of
good
repair
or
$4,000,000
improvements
to
the
trans
array
and
other
infrastructure
of
1.8,
and
then
stationed
facility
and
bus
stop
improvements
and
shelters,
which
many
of
you
put
in
requests
for
of
1.9
million
dollars
some
challenges
and
lists.
Again.
We've
heard
the
message
you
want
to
know
what
those
risks
are.
B
What
are
the
things
that
were
worried
about
or
concerned
about
changes
in
the
Ottawa
economy
is
something
that
we
need
to
track
and
you
d
track
very
very
carefully
with
our
Economic
Development
Group
employment
levels.
You
know
the
relationship
between
employment
levels
in
transit,
we're
also
looking
at
downtown
building
occupancy
s.
We
hope
that
that
rebounds
back
in
a
positive
way
and
that
some
of
those
occupancies
are
filled
up
very
critical
to
us
is
decentralization
of
major
employees
from
the
core.
B
We
need
to
also
have
that
on
our
radar
screen
and
that
could
be
a
risk
to
to
the
future
shifts
and
travel
modes.
I'm
happy
to
advise
that.
Certainly,
at
the
QT
level,
community,
transit,
Association
level
and
other
organizations
app
to
transit
professionals
are
now
openly
and
directly
talking
about
how
our
shifts
in
travel
mode
up
affecting
transit.
You
know,
ridership
is
down
across
Canada.
I
can
tell
you
that
my
peers
have
flagged
that
to
me
either
flat
or
down,
and
so
people
are
looking
at
more
biking,
more
walking,
which
is
great.
B
B
That's
just
an
impact
on
the
ridership
piece
and
low
gasoline
prices,
not
diesel,
but
regular,
gasoline
price
for
does
that
encourage
people
to
to
use
vehicles
their
personal
vehicles
more
than
they
would
in
the
past
in
terms
of
future
fares
in
ridership,
we
are
doing
a
detail
assessment
of
ridership
levels,
we're
looking
at.
Where
are
we
what's
our
regression
curve?
Look
like
what's
what
are
some
of
those
drivers
were
looking
at
fair
pricing
and
elasticity?
B
It
is
not
in
the
budget,
it
will
come
to
you
in
q1
as
part
of
the
detailed
report,
and
we
will
have
that
dialogue
with
you
and
seek
your
recommendations
and
approval
will
also
include
and
again
this
morning.
People
ask
you,
but
the
loan
can
pass
will
look
at
the
loan
can
pass
options
and
scenarios.
It
will
build
that
all
into
one.
So
what
you
have
before
you
is
a
detailed
report.
B
The
issues
about
pricing,
elasticity,
ridership
trends,
analysis
across
Canada
and
North
America
and
how
we
can
fit
in
me
alone
can
pass
whether
it's
feasible
and
what
that
would
look
like.
So
what's
not
included,
there
is
no
capacity.
I
will
say
it
again.
There's
no
capacity
for
new
service
and
I.
Just
I
realize
that,
because
throughout
the
year,
I
do
get
requests
for,
can
we
add
more
service
and
there
is
nothing
built
into
the
budget.
There's
no
increase
in
management
positions.
You
know,
we've
reduced
those
and
there's
no
other
FTS
being
requested.
Thank
You
mr.
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much
shot.
Mr.
McCarney
councillor
crew,
chief
Lee,
Thank,
You,
chairman
:,
erupted.
I,
guess,
y'all
had
a
question
about
and
chair.
Please
let
me
know
if
this
is
not
high
level
enough,
for
it
don't
hesitate
to
stop
me
and
the
400,000
dollar
pension
adjustment
is
that,
do
we
think
that's
all
of
it?
Is
this
a
one-time
or
will
it
be?
Is
it
an
annual
issue
yeah.
D
That
was
the
as
a
result
of
the
valuation
of
the
Oct
pension
plan
and
because
we
are
now
the
increase
in
the
market
value,
we
don't
have
to
put
in
the
special
payment.
So
there
was
a
reduction
from
the
5
million
to
4.5.
So
that's
the
difference.
There
will
be
another
valuation
next
year
and
so
there
may
be
a
special
payment
required
then,
but
for
now
for
2016,
that
is
the
amount.
Okay.
C
B
C
Forecasted
if
we
could
just
see
the
trends
and
my
last
question
and
thank
you
a
chair,
the
the
first
and
last
ride
savings.
Half
a
million
dollars
significant,
but
I
just
want
to
and
we'll
discuss
it
more.
The
first
rides
are
often
for
for
people
who
are
going
to
if
they.
If
there
was
an
earlier
bus,
they
would
take
it
it's
because
they
have
to
go
to
a
shift
at
a
5
a.m.
shift
that
at
a
restaurant
or
something
I
would
caution
whether
that's
the
an
appropriate
place
to
to
effect
these
cuts.
C
Perhaps
the
second
trip
of
the
day
on
a
particular
route
might
be
the
better
place.
I
know
that
if
we're
having
a
bus
driver
come
in
at
a
certain
hour
and
then
there's
the
gapping
and
the
filling
but
I
would
caution
in
terms
of
a
major
impact
on
our
on
some
of
the
users
that
that
first
or
last,
ride
often
I
know
from
personal
experience.
If
it's
the
the,
if
there
was
an
earlier
bus,
I
would
have
taken
it
because
I
wanted
to
get
somewhere
or
if
there
was
a
later
bus.
B
That
dialogue,
so
if
there's
some
of
those
suggestions,
cause
mister
screams
and
his
team
have
done
a
very
good
job
of
making
sure
we
don't
strand
people
I
understand
what
you're
seeing
what
we
didn't
want
to
do
is
eliminate
the
only
trip
or
the
only
service
in
certain
areas.
So
he's
done
a
very
good
analysis
of
that.
B
That's
not
to
say
that
we
can't
adjust
some
things
at
the
end
of
the
day,
we'll
need
about
half
a
million
dollars,
and
so,
if
there's
some
ideas
or
there's
a
trip
within
a
series
of
trips,
that
should
be
looked
at
we're
very
happy
to
do
that.
I
can
tell
you,
then
a
good
job.
We've
engaged
the
bus
drivers
to
make
sure
we
weren't
missing
the
data.
We
also
looked
at
as
anything
changing
your
business
opening
up
that
someone
needs
to
get
to
and
so
forth.
I
encourage
that
dialogue.
C
Looking
forward
to
it,
thank
you
thank
you,
chair,
thank
you
very
much,
Commissioner
Luce
and
mr.
Marconi.
When
commissioners,
if
you
hadn't
already
received
the
the
deck,
when
you
do
see
it,
it
will
have
the
next
trip
time
on
there
as
well,
so
you'll
see
exactly
what
the
gapping
is
and
many
of
these
routes
or
many
of
these
trips
only
have
one
or
two
people
on
them.
So
that's
why
they
were
they
were
chosen.
Next
on
the
list
is
councillor
respondent.
E
Thank
You
chair
and
thank
you,
mister
man,
coney
just
a
couple
of
questions
related
to
the
deck
in
the
presentation.
Maybe
I'll
start
with
the
fair
pricing
elasticity,
which
you
say
is
going
to
be
assessed.
I
guess.
The
first
question
is:
you
must
have
made
assumptions
about
what
the
2.5%
fare
increase
would
do
to
the
ridership
in
2016
in
order
to
arrive
at
the
2.2
million
dollar
in
increased
revenue
figure.
So
you
have
actually
done
for
the
purposes
of
the
2.5.
Some
analysis
so
I'm
wondering
if
you
can
share
with
with
the
Commission.
E
B
E
Thanks
mr.
chair
that
the
concept
of
elasticity
is
very
well
accepted,
but
not
necessarily
very
well
understood
in
the
transit
industry
and
and
we're
always
keen
to
to
learn
more
about
it.
But
the
principle
is
that
when
the
the
nature
of
the
service
changes,
the
frequency
of
service,
the
walking
distance
to
service
or
the
fares
that
people
pay
or
certain
other
aspects,
either
improve
or
or
reduce
that
there
will
be
an
effect
on
demand
for
transit,
all
else
being
equal.
E
Now
all
else
is
never
equal,
so
it
becomes
a
fairly
theoretical
exercise
across
the
transit
industry.
The
view
is
that
ridership
with
respect
to
fare,
changes
inelastic,
and
that
is
that
people
do
not
very
much
change
their
habit.
Based
on
what
the
fair
the
fare
is.
They
need
to
make
that
decision
based
on
many
other
things
like
congestion
and
availability
of
parking
and
availability
of
transit,
service
and
price
of
fuel
and
price
of
car
ownership,
and
things
like
that.
E
Fare
different
from
the
other
costs
that
people
are
perceiving
so
in
our
case,
difference
in
the
CPI
usually
results
in
a
0.2
to
0.4
change
in
the
opposite
direction
of
ridership.
So
if
you
had
100
people
and
the
fare
went
up
by
one
percent
more
than
inflation,
you
would
expect
to
get
this
point
three
percent
at
zero
point
three
of
another
person,
so
I
should
have
started
with
a
thousand
people.
A
thousand
people
and
ridership
sorry
went
down
under
by.
E
E
There
aren't
more
parking
spaces,
there
isn't
more
Road
capacity.
There
hasn't
been
any
more
Road
capacity
built
for
probably
over
forty
years,
so
we
don't.
We
don't
know,
but
we
don't
think
that
fare
change
makes
much
of
a
difference
for
poor
transit
ridership.
Now
the
proof
of
that
which
is
not
proof
at
all,
but
the
indication
of
that
is
that
during
those
years
that
we
had
seven
and
a
half
percent
fare
increases
three
years
in
a
row
which
I
think
cumulatively
were
about
a
22
percent
increase.
E
E
E
E
E
chair,
the
the
theory
is
that
if
all
else
is
equal,
but
we
know
that
there's
many
money
out
of
the
other
things
influencing
ridership,
far
more
than
fair
level
does
and
that's
what
we've
briefed
you
on
in
the
past,
that
the
state
of
the
economy,
the
weather
and
the
price
of
fuel
are
the
major
drivers
of
ridership
in
Ottawa,
okay,
so
zero,
just
by
just
0
right,
0
elasticity,
it
was,
was
the
assumption
I'm
just
trying
to
understand
correct.
Okay.
Thank
you.
My
next
question
is
about
the
fare
table.
Mr.
E
Mahoney,
you
said
we
wouldn't
be
seeing
a
fare
table
at
the
stage
where
we're
expected
to
approve
the
budget
with
a
2.5%
proposed
fare
increase.
What
what
assumptions
should
we,
as
commissioners,
make
that
that
will
be
distributed
evenly
through
the
various
fare
structures
that
some
may
pay
more
heavily
than
others
I'm,
just
trying
to
wrap
my
mind
around
how
this
Commission
is
expected
to
pass
a
budget
without
knowing
what
the
impact
is
going
to
be
on
the
actual
riders?
E
B
In
the
past,
when
there's
been
a
fare
increase,
it's
an
average
across
all
the
fares
and
we'd
be
rounding
up
and
down,
because
you
don't
want
to
get
into
halfpennies
and
so
forth.
So
you
can
assume
that
the
only
place
that
would
be
different
is
in
the
where
we
have
contractual
obligations,
which
is
with
the
u-pass,
where
there's
they're
fixed
at
two
point.
Two
point,
two
point:
five,
so
that's
an
automatic
and
the
rest
you
could
you
could
extrapolate
and
even
average,
across
the
fair's
and.
C
Well
so
I
think,
as
mr.
Marconi
has
indicated,
there
is
a
more
holistic
review
of
the
fare
structure
that
is
taking
place,
partly
as
directed
by
this
commission,
with
a
request
for
a
low-income
fare
product,
but
also
as
we
as
we
transition
into
light
rail
decisions
by
council
have
already
been
made
that
will
dictate
and
change
how
the
the
system
needs
to
be.
It
needs
to
run
and
I.
Think
a
holistic
review
and
presentation
of
the
fare
table
will
be
coming
forward
in
q1
of
next
year.
Yeah.
E
C
E
Okay,
that's
important.
The
third
and
last
area
I
wanted
to
ask
about
just
following
up
on
counselor
cliches
questions
is
mr.
mcclain.
You
said
over
the
past
that
the
expectation
is
operating,
costs
for
lousy
transport
will
decline,
I
guess
probably
starting
2019.
Once
you've
had
a
full
year
of
the
LRT
being
in
place.
Do
you
have
a
rough
estimate?
It
needn't
be
detailed
of
what
you
anticipate
the
operating
costs
and
rough
terms
to
be
in
2019.
I
can.
B
A
A
My
concern
in
this
leads
to
a
question.
What
might
my
concern
is
that
often
the
people
that
are
taking
the
first
and
last
trips,
not
only
because
of
timing
but
but
also
because
of
finances,
don't
have
a
choice,
that's
how
they
get
to
the
restaurant
or
or
the
retail
establishment,
where
they
have
their
chef
and
I'm
working.
A
lot
of
them
are
to
places
like
they
show
shopping
center,
plasto
al.
You
know
places
where
people
are
going,
probably
to
or
from
retail
jobs,
about
sort
of
thing
and
that's
how
they
get
there.
A
It's
not
just
about
the
numbers
for
those
those
people
on
the
charts,
but
it's
that's
their
livelihood,
that's
how
they
get
to
their
shift.
Work.
The
restaurant,
the
store,
the
factory
whatever
it
is
so
again,
I
leave
it
open
to
you.
If
you've
looked
at
the
sort
of
midday
rides,
let
us
know
if
you
haven't
I
I
would
appreciate
it
if
you
could
do
that
before
you
come
back
to
us
for
the
further
discussion
on
the
final
approval
of
the
budget.
B
B
Yes,
we
can
look
at
the
alternate
trips
that
consortia
raised,
I,
just
caution,
you
that
you
know
when
I
jump
on
my
86
there's
only
three
people
on
it,
but
by
the
time
I
get
to
Tony's
pasture.
It's
it's
standing
room.
Only
so
I've
heard
those
those
the
stories.
Also,
you
did
do
a
thorough
review
of
your
system
a
few
years
ago.
This
is
something
that
you
want
to
do
regular
basis.
Otherwise
you,
your
cost
can
can
spiral
out
of
control.
B
They
are
difficult
decisions
I
understand
that,
but
what
I
would
suggest
this
is
our
best
professional
opinion
to
you.
What
I
would
suggest
to
you
is,
if
you
have
other
trips
that
you
want
us
to
look
at,
we
can
certainly
do
that.
There
are
no
obvious
ones
that
have
jumped
out
on
us
when
we
did
this
review,
but
we're
happy
to
if
you
want
to
explore
different
trips
within
dates
that
you're
familiar
with
or
that
you
want
to
suggest.
B
A
For
clarification,
don't
want
what
I
was
suggesting
is
then
I
get
the
8686
is
a
well
travel,
but
we
have.
We
have
a
lot
of
those
little
local
routes
that
sometimes,
during
the
middle
of
the
day,
there's
not
a
whole
lot
of
people
on
there
and
if
they
are
using
it,
it's
it's
not
for
the
purposes
of
getting
to
their
employment,
and
it's
that
category
that
I'm
that
I'd
like
to
know
it
has
been
looked
at
before
we
vote
on
this.
D
D
D
That
that's
the
one
for
everything
other
than
LRT,
so
that
we've
got
that
one
down
last
this
this
year
to
pay
that
off.
What
is
what
we're
putting
back
into
it
going
to
meet
what
was
originally
in
the
long
range
financial
plan
to
have
the
money
in
there
for
all
the
things
you
have
to
do
on
capital,
or
are
we
going
to
end
up
having
less
capital
money
available
than
we
were
planning.
B
The
work
that's
before
you
here
today
lines
up
with
my
opening
slides
about
the
capital,
affordability
plan,
everything
from
the
fare
increases
the
contribution
to
reserves
and
so
forth.
So
in
the
work
that
we're
doing
is
looking
at
the
three
or
four
castes
the
big
milestone
in
2018
when
LRT
kicks
in
and
also
stage
2
affordability,
that's
what
mr.
Kirkpatrick
has
had
us
looking
at,
including
the
16
million
dollar
reduction
in
2018
and
so
forth.
So
it's
all
tied
together.
D
I,
don't
have
the
specifics
on
that,
but
we
are
working
on
it
as
part
of
the
overall
affordability
model.
So
we
are
updating
that
affordability
model
in
early
2016,
but
I
can't
answer
the
smoker
over
time.
We
should
get
that
information
that
is
related
to
that.
A
little
bit
is
the
the
35
million
you've
got
or
the
money
you've
got
in
from
the
provincial
gas
tax
money.
I
know
we're
also
funding
the
LRT
with
provincial
and
federal
gas
tax
money
are.
C
D
Yet
the
answer
when
they
come
back
on
that
day,
another
can
the
the
increase.
You
have
a
2.5
percent.
You
said
that
includes
the
you
pass.
Does
that
also
include
the
annualization
of
the
one
from
the
they
got
gone
from
college
because
they
only
had
a
part
year
this
year
and
then
next
year,
that
will
having
to
terms
of
said
it
one.
It.
D
As
opposed
to
any
other
okay,
fine,
thank
you
and
go
with
that.
1.0
thing:
you're,
not
no
money
for
new
areas.
This
is
a
Bugaboo.
It's
not
a
problem!
I
area
this
year,
because
I've
got
a
bit
of
service
everywhere,
but
there
is
a
problem
when
new
areas
are
built
out
and
they
have
they're
paying
full
transit
levies
and
they
get
absolutely
no
service
and
I
would
hope
that
when
you're
doing
your
adjustments,
that
possibly
ends
of
routes
could
be
made.
So
some
of
these
could
get
service
because
otherwise
it's
grossly
unfair
I.
F
Thank
you,
mr.
chair
I'm,
just
a
couple
of
very
quick
high-level
questions,
so,
first
of
all,
with
reference
to
slide
number
eighteen
with
the
future
fares,
of
course,
I'm
happy
to
see
that
the
assessment
and
the
feasibility
of
low
income
pass
will
be
included
at
that
time.
I
just
want
to
be
clear.
Is
this
information
to
be
presented
at
the
same
time
as
the
draft
fare
table
for
2016
such
that?
If
the
recommendation
were
that
a
low
income
pass
was
feasible,
that
it
could
be
in
place
with
the
2016
fare
adjustments.
B
I'm
going
to
say,
perhaps
we
have
to
crunch
the
numbers,
there's
a
lot
of
numbers
in
there
and
the
Lincoln
piece,
it's
significant,
and
so
we
have
to
look
at
how
all
the
numbers
work.
But
it's
one
report
with
all
the
elements
in
them
and
we
would
recommend
if
whether
we
phase
it
in
or
when
certain
pieces
would
kick
in.
Our
hope
is
that
everything
could
go
in
July
first
and
do
it
all
in
one
piece.
B
F
F
All
right,
I
certainly
would
like
to
see
that
you
know
included
at
the
same
time
so
that
if
it
is
feasible,
it
can
be
implemented.
Secondly,
and
just
very
quickly,
I'd
like
to
repeat
a
sort
of
echo,
some
of
council
clue,
chaise
and
councillor
eagle-eyes
comments
with
regard
to
the
first
and
last
trips.
You
know.
F
I
certainly
recognize
that
on
some
of
those
that
have
been
identified,
the
ridership
is
low
as
0
or
1,
and
certainly
I
think
that
those
are
traps
that
there's
simply
not
economical
I,
also
recognize
that
eliminating
instead,
the
second
or
second
last
trip
may
not
realize
some
of
the
same
savings
that
taking
off
the
first
or
the
last
does
that
said,
and
picking
up
on
what
councilor
egg
you
I
said.
I
certainly
know
that
I
wouldn't
be
myself.
F
F
The
first
trips
I
recognize
that
moving
trips
earlier
make
an
inconvenience
other
people,
but
that
finding
at
time
somewhere
in
between
the
two
combining
the
first
and
second
trip
to
somewhere
in
between,
because
I
certainly
share
councillor
egg
lice
and
councillor
cliches
concerns
that
we
may
be
cutting
off
those
that
are
economically
dependent
on
getting
to
a
certain
employment
place
at
a
certain
time.
Thank
you.
Those
would
be
my
comments.
C
C
Is
not
clear
to
me
that
all
the
commissioners
have
received
the
detailed
tables
as
of
yet
and
so
detailed
questions
like
that
are
really
meant
for
the
debate
on
the
budget.
If
you
need
clarity
afterwards,
I'm
sure
mr.
Mahoney
would
be
happy
to
answer
an
email
or
speech
you
off
the
office
side,
but
it's.
C
B
C
B
Terms
of
so
under
service
initiative
savings
there
seems
to
be
a
disconnect
between
the
efficiencies
that
are
identified
in
the
slide
deck
and
the
column.
I'm
just
wondering
how
to
read
that
column
are
those
the
efficiencies
that
they've
identified.
You
know
in
some
cases
it's
it's
not
the
same
as
what
we
see
in
the
slide
deck
without
identifying
a
specific
line
item
that
could
be
used
as
an
example.
B
C
You
very
much
are
there
any
other
questions,
councillor
Koosh,
Thank,
You,
chair
and
notice.
At
the
end
of
the
presentation,
you
spoke
about
sort
of
the
ratio
and
narrowing
it
down
to
51%.
I
just
want
to
touch
a
bit
on
that
from
a
high
level
perspective
in
terms
of
how
we
feel
going
forward
to
our
contributions
to
the
reserves
for
for
capital,
given
the
significant
investments
that
are
coming
up
and
some
stories,
you
know
that
have
been
out
there
on
that
and
in
terms
of
the
city
contribution.
B
There's
multiple
goals,
obviously,
when
you're
doing
a
budget
and
one
is
to
present
a
balanced
budget
which
we've
done
the
the
principles
that
I
outlined
at
the
beginning
in
terms
of
the
for
transit
affordability
plan.
There's
a
lot
of
rigor
that
went
into
that.
There's
the
long
view
both
the
three-year
forecast
piece.
That
councils
asked
for
and
in
the
longer
view
about
LRT
in
stage
two.
So
those
have
all
been
put
into
place.
Are
they
all
perfect?
B
No,
but
it's
all
aligned
to
those
principles
and
with
every
year
we're
making
sure
that
we're
going
to
bring
forward
a
balanced
budget,
as
the
city
manager
said
this
morning,
he's
confident
that
we
can
get
there
and
transits
no
different.
We
have
to
get
there.
We
need
stage
one
open
in
one
afford
stage:
two.
Having
said
that,
there's
a
lot
of
parts
to
the
stage
to
affordability,
piece
which
the
city
manager
has
talked
about
in
the
past,
about
an
overarching
report
that
will
be
going
to
counsel
or
fedko
in
terms
of
stage
two
affordability.
B
B
We
know
where
we
are.
We
know
we've
got
challenges
in
the
next
two
years
and
you
get
to
2017
and
2018
with
the
opening
of
the
LRT.
We
have
to
eventually
get
to
55%
with
the
opening.
It
could
surpass
that
it
depends
what
happens
with
ridership
and
and
other
things,
but
certainly
the
goal
is
to
get
to
55%
and
we're
close
to
that
at
51.
6,
ok,.
C
E
Apologies
chair:
it
was
just
one
other
thing
that
I
thought
might
be
really
useful
in
terms
of
being
able
to
study
the
budget
tables
between
now
and
our
next
meeting
I'm
wondering
if,
if
staff
could
just
give
us
a
sense
of
how
they
arrived
at
the
2.2
million
dollar
figure,
so
just
the
basic
calculations
that
went
into
the
estimate
that
it
that
the
increased
revenues
will
be
2.2
and
it
can
be,
it
needn't,
be
now
if
it's
better
to
send
it
later
I'm,
just
asking.
If
that
could
be,
you
can
follow
up
with.