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From YouTube: Transportation Committee – April 20, 2015
Description
Transportation Committee meeting – April 20, 2015 – Audio Stream
Agenda and background materials can be found at http://www.ottawa.ca/agendas.
A
A
plan
started
out
that
we
would
have
about
40%
on
shuttle
buses
and
about
20%
using
public
transit
and
that
those
numbers
reversed
really
because
of
how
how
effective
it
was
for
people
to
go
from
the
closest
parking
roads
in
in
gatineau
or
in
Ottawa
Phil,
and
his
team
of
traffic
specialists
provided
us
with
with
great
support
and
great
service,
so
that
we
could
correct
things
as
we
as
we
went.
The
LT
mark
committee,
of
course,
the
feedback
in
the
interactions
that
we
had
with
with
community
groups.
A
A
For
this,
the
beginning
of
the
season,
they
had
agreed
to
a
pilot
of
five
games,
as
we
were
demonstrating
success
and
as
this
program
was
working
its
way
through
the
season,
the
NCC
agreed
to
let
the
remaining
part
of
the
season
we're
working
with
them,
obviously,
to
continue
to
use
the
QED
for
our
for
a
shuttle
service
and
I'm
very
proud
of
us
on
a
song
we
do.
We
will
hear
from
now
who
is
going
to
present
the
formal
structure
of
the
of
the
report.
The
son
worked
tirelessly
to
make
sure
this
worked.
A
B
B
The
president
shuttle
service
plans
that
Natasha
targets
for
larger
steering
events,
an
emphasis,
is
placed
on
the
promotion
of
shuttle
service
transit
cycling
in
working
to
these
games.
60%
of
identities
are
projected
to
take
alternative
modes
of
transportation
to
enjoy
events.
The
combined
transit
in
shuttle
service
will
share
was
set
up
more
than
50%
of
attendance
and
is
worth
warring
with
the
team.
Marshal
targets
were
expected
to
be
achieved
over
new
reviews
as
visitors
to
the
site
adjusted
to
the
service
in.
B
B
B
Target
for
shuttle
reaches
that
was
meant
for
our
beverage
given
games
at
any
place
throughout
the
season.
Campus
that
was
development.
North
Indies
were
using
OC
Transpo
steel
to
get
to
TV
place,
while
the
parking
shuttle
service
that
nearby
offset
parks
was
decreasing.
This
trend
is
mainly
attributed
to
continuing
like
an
convenient,
affordable
options,
as
well
as
the
great
level
of
service
provided
by
OC
Transpo
new
steel.
B
B
B
A
spotted
beautiful,
continuing
data
collection
program,
the
City
of
Ottawa
in
partnership
with
also
undertook
an
intercept
survey
as
part
of
the
city's
wider
intercept
survey
study
to
support
the
initiatives
undertaken
by
planning
and
management
for
intercept
surveys.
We
are
undertaking
during
the
2013
back
season.
The
results
of
these
surveys
provide
further
insight
on
the
travel
behavior
for
a
box
home
games
that
cannot
be
easily
quantified
through
passive
camps
such
as
transit
and
pass,
and
shuttle
passenger
kids.
B
The
survey
also
provided
further
insight
on
the
travel
behavior
a
trip
origin
locations.
For
instance,
the
survey
indicated
that
several
percent
of
trip
origins
world
from
residences.
This
supports
a
popularity
in
Hanoi
observed
with
Aussie
transplant
HDL,
for
the
parking
allocation
is
about
new
year's
attain.
B
The
survey
also
provides
further
insight,
the
ordinary
shares,
for
instance,
the
survey
indicates
that
approximately
13%
of
attendees
walked
to
the
game,
which
exceeds
a
nine
percent
metal
show
target.
Also,
the
survey
indicated
that
approximately
4%
of
attendees
cycle
to
the
game,
which
exceeds
a
50%
more
target
set
in
the
chooser
in
shuttle
service
for
report.
B
B
C
C
Okay,
thank
you
Brian
again,
thank
you
for
your
help
on
LT,
Mac
I
think
you
at
just
about
every
meeting,
and
so
thanks
for
representing
the
community
and
bringing
their
concerns
and
questions
for
much
appreciate
it.
So
you
know
the
wind,
so
you
got
five
minutes
and
I
think
you're
the
PowerPoint
for
us
correct,
I
do
okay!
Thank
you!
So.
D
However,
and
apart
from
the
community's
concerns
regarding
routing
of
shuttle
buses
on
residential
streets
such
as
lakeside,
it
was
not
the
impact
of
large
Stadium
events
at
Lansdowne
the
concern
to
most
residents.
Rather,
it
was
the
day-to-day
traffic
and
parking
impact
of
all
the
new
commercial
activities,
together
with
the
smaller
events,
more
frequent,
smaller
events
at
Lansdowne,
but
most
concerned
the
community,
and
while
most
of
those
tenants,
including
the
cinema,
are
only
just
beginning
to
operate.
D
Some
of
the
community's
concerns
are
already
visible,
particularly
regarding
traffic
congestion,
on
Bank,
Street
and
availability
of
on
street
parking,
both
of
which
should
also
be
of
concern
to
the
commercial
operators
at
Lansdowne
and
by
its
partnership
with
them.
The
city
and
its
taxpayers
on
the
six
streets
closest
to
Lansdowne
west
of
Bank
Street
residents
have
lost
most
of
their
on
street
parking.
This
area
was
measured
in
the
2010
Landstown
transportation
study
to
council.
As
having
forty
percent
utilization
of
parking.
Today,
the
utilization
rate
is
over
90
percent,
both
weekdays
and
weekends.
D
One
of
those
local
residents
is
the
Glebe
Center,
a
nonprofit
Mercy
home,
providing
an
essential
service
to
the
community
in
the
entire
city.
They
report
having
lost
over
a
hundred
volunteers,
that's
one
third
of
their
volunteer
base
with
most
citing
lack
of
parking
as
the
reason
for
withdrawing
their
services.
This
is
also
a
problem
for
local
businesses,
including
summit
Lansdowne,
since
their
customers
searched
for
a
short-term
twenty
to
forty
minute
parking
spot
to
run.
Errand
will
end
in
frustration.
D
The
city
needs
to
proactively
work
with
the
residents
and
the
Glebe
center
to
address
the
situation
and
reverse
the
position
taken
a
year
ago,
which
denied
residents
on
those
streets
the
right
to
change
the
parking
regulations
from
three
hours
to
something
less
if
they
wish
to
do
so.
On
the
other
side
of
Bank,
Street
residents
were
allowed
to
change
their
on
street
parking
into
one
hour
and
adopt
a
guest
permit
parking
program,
and
this
is
working
well
when
it
is
enforced,
such
as
during
red
box
games.
D
The
other
challenge
that
is
returned
to
the
Glebe
due
to
Lansdowne
is
traffic
congestion
on
Bank
Street.
This
photo
was
taken
an
hour
before
67's
game
last
month,
and
it
shows
traffic
on
Bank
Street,
fake.
The
traffic
on
a
Bank
Street
backed
up
all
the
way
to
the
Queensway.
Now
this
is
not
a
new
problem.
Similar
backups
were
commonplace
with
the
old
Lansdowne,
but
it
is
frustrating
for
local
residents
and
it's
not
going
to
encourage
a
Whole
Foods
or
a
sporting
Life
customer
to
return
anytime
soon.
But
here
too
there
are
solutions.
D
The
Queen,
Elizabeth
driveway
and
its
permanent
entrance
to
Lansdowne
is
proving
to
be
an
effective
way
to
shift
traffic
away
from
Bank
Street,
but
the
route
needs
to
be
signed,
so
the
drivers
are
encouraged
to
use
it.
But
ultimately
the
solution
is
the
one
that
made
the
red
box
games
so
successful,
getting
more
people
to
use
transit
to
access
Lansdowne
for
day-to-day
activities
as
well.
We're
pleased
that
we
can
transit
services
on
routes,
one
and
seven
will
soon
be
increased,
but
more
proactive
measures
are
needed.
D
The
Glebe
Community
Association
continues
to
advocate
for
a
trial,
no
fare
zone
on
part
of
Bank
Street
to
encourage
greater
transit,
ridership,
a
tool
that
is
used
in
many
North
American
cities,
particularly
for
areas
that
are
not
directly
served
by
Rapid
Transit
and
speaking
of
Rapid
Transit.
The
city
should
now
begin
exploring
how
it
can
create
a
quick
link
between
Lansdowne
and
the
LRT
when
it
opens
in
2018.
D
One
way
to
do
so
would
be
a
regular
shuttle
from
the
Carlino
train
station
to
Lansdowne
via
the
QED,
no
doubt
a
delicate
discussion
with
the
NCC,
but
one
that
should
begin
now.
Indeed,
when
it
comes
to
Lansdowne,
as
we've
just
heard,
the
cooperation
of
the
NCC
has
thus
far
been
very
positive.
The
National
Capital
experience
of
the
drive
way
can
be
preserved,
while
also
serving
the
needs
of
daily
commuters
and
now
Lansdowne
visitors,
and
that
includes
those
coming
on
foot
or
cycle
for
whom
further
safety
improvements
are
needed
in
the
active.
D
The
access
points
to
land
still
on
the
QED,
particularly
from
the
south.
In
conclusion,
the
city,
thankfully
and
I
do
thank
you-
has
over
the
past
12
months,
begun
to
implement
many
of
the
recommendations
the
community
laid
out
two
years
ago
on
how
to
make
Lansdowne
work
for
both
local
residents
and
its
operators
from
a
transportation
perspective.
But
it's
still
a
work
in
progress.
D
More
needs
to
be
done
by
to
address
the
parking
challenges
on
neighboring
streets
to
increase,
transit
usage
by
land
stands
day
to
day
visitors
and
employees,
and
the
city
needs
to
continue
to
engage
with
the
NCC
to
maximize
the
use
of
the
Queen
Elizabeth
driveway
as
the
preferred
access
route
to
Lansdowne
and
one
that
is
safe
for
all
users,
including
pedestrians
and
cyclists.
Thank
you.
C
C
C
E
You
let
me
begin
by
saying
that
the
South
community
association
appreciates
the
opportunity
to
participate
with
LT,
MOC
and
city
staff.
We
have
found
it
very
beneficial
to
our
community's
interests
and
to
the
interests
of
the
communities
as
a
whole
to
work
with
LT
MOC
and
the
city.
Traffic
specialists
in
a
consistent
and
continuous
matter
manner
has
been
actually
a
very
useful
vehicle
to
get
all
parties
together.
E
Very
much
as
you
can
imagine
from
the
Lansdowne
the
larger
events
and
the
day
to
day
traffic
that
has
just
started
and
will
continue
into
2015
some
notable
results
of
the
work.
I'm
thomas,
a
with
the
tradition,
co
as
well
as
city
officials
has
zebra
stripes
at
intersections,
such
as
Elmer
wrote
down
to
Riverdale
and
Bank,
and
resistant
to
showers
for
cyclists,
traveling
on
the
Bank
Street
Bridge
in
some
advanced
pedestrian
signals
at
Bank
and
sunny
side
minor
changes
to
a
community
that
is
facing
huge
challenges
with
increased
traffic.
E
Our
problem
areas
continue
to
drag
on
our
movement
forward
to
address
our
traffic
conditions.
A
particular
concern
is
the
Bank
Street
bridge.
We
support
the
Lotus
proposed
safety
measures
for
cyclists
and
we'll
continue
to
press
for
future
improvements,
pedestrian
safety,
Aylmer
and
bank.
The
first
intersection
directly
south
of
limestone
is
a
serious
concern
and,
as
are
the
walking
routes
for
school
children
and
after
four
programs
at
peak
traffic
periods
along
Sunnyside,
Avenue,
east
and
west
of
Bank.
E
The
automatic
east/west
pedestrian
signal
agreed
to
by
city
officials
in
early
March
from
the
Grove
Avenue
to
Riverdale
has
not
been
implemented
from
Elmer
South
to
Riverdale
and
today,
who
do
not
have
an
alternative
to
this
lack
of
implementation
on
something
that
we
saw
that
might
be
beneficial
for
pedestrians,
crossing
east
and
west
we've
learned.
Merging
traffic
is
a
slow,
methodical
process
and
involves
provincial
and
municipal
standards,
regulatory
bylaws,
sophisticated
data
collection.
It
also
requires
resources
in
March
of
2014.
E
It
is
clear
that
increased
traffic
is
having
an
impact
and
old
Ottawa
self,
and
residents
are
calling
for
action
that
might
reduce
speed,
address
hotspots
and
improve
safety
features
for
pedestrians,
cyclists
and
drivers
at
the
very
minimum.
Resources
me
to
be
identified
for
measures
within
our
purview,
for
example,
funds
for
proactive
and
consistent
by
law
enforcement
targeting
hotspots
where
regulations
already
exist,
I
think
these
are
reasonable
requests.
It's
logical,
rational.
You
have
a
440
million
dollar
development.
E
You
have
communities
and
within
the
facility,
at
this
huge
development,
it's
not
surprising
to
us
and
I
commend
@lc,
MOC
and
actually
TDM
for
the
excellent
handling
of
large-scale
events.
I
I
know,
that's
excellent
I
think
you
know
that,
but
you
know
the
day
to
day
traffic
issues
and
the
lack
of
budgeting.
You
know
financial
and
human
resources
to
a
community
affected
by
such
a
huge
influx
on
daily
traffic
is
very
noticeable,
so
I
will
make
some
recommendations.
E
Ok,
I'm
going
to
continue
the
proactive
measures.
Our
community
would
like
to
continue
proactive
measures
to
promote,
monitor
the
use
of
public
transit,
public
transit,
public
transit,
public
transit
undertake
the
police
safety
audit
of
the
traffic
issues
at
Bank.
Street
Bridge,
including
the
intersections
at
Bank
and
Wilton,
install
a
safe
crossing.
The
Queen's
at
the
driveway
at
Bolton,
leading
up
to
Bank,
reduce
illegal
left,
turns
a
bank
by
installing
better
signage
on
Colonel,
buy,
drive,
accelerate
the
construction
of
the
pedestrian
and
cyclist
budget.
E
C
Thank
you
don't
go
away.
There
may
be
some
questions
when
you
are
there.
Are
there
any
questions
for
the
delegation?
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
now
I
know
councillor
Tina
Shenk.
Oh
you
wanted
to
to
speak
to
this
matter.
Do
you
want
to
hold
off
on
your
comments
until
people,
if
M
not
between,
ask
staff
questions
and
then
sort
of
do
a
wrap-up,
okay,
fair
enough?
C
C
F
You
to
address
the
Committee
on
this
agenda
item
the
community
of
old.
Our
East
is
located
across
the
Rideau
Canal
to
the
east
of
Lansdowne,
and
our
community
association
has
participated
actively
in
the
consultations
around
the
development
of
Lansdowne
Park,
since
they
were
initiated
four
or
five
years
ago,
while
we
are
currently
not
as
affected
as
our
neighbors
in
the
Glebe
and
old
Ottawa.
So
we
have
appreciated
the
opportunity
to
participate
in
these
consultations
and
make
our
concerns
known.
F
Our
main
concerns
have
been
the
possibility
of
increased
parking
on
our
streets
and
of
increased
traffic
circulating
throughout
our
community.
We
are
pleased
to
report
that
the
city
staff
has
taken
our
concerns
seriously
and
they
have
monitored
the
situation
to
the
establishment
of
traffic
cameras
and
to
patrols
by
bylaw
officers.
F
While
the
green
super
sharrows
have
been
installed
in
the
southbound
lane
over
the
Bank
Street
Bridge
and
our
plans
for
the
northbound
lane
of
the
bridge,
there
is
an
adequate
signage
to
indicate
to
motorists
that
cyclists
have
the
right
to
occupy
the
lane
and
not
just
the
three
feet
on
the
right
and
edge
signage
for
motorists
and
for
cyclists
approaching.
The
super
sharrows
has
to
be
improved.
F
The
other
way
to
improve
access
for
cyclists
and
pedestrians
is
for
this
committee
to
champion
the
early
construction
of
the
multi-purpose
footbridge
over
the
Rideau
Canal
between
claig
Street
and
Fifth
Avenue.
This
would
vastly
improve
access
to
Lansdowne
Park
from
the
east
and
southeast
corners
of
Ottawa,
and
would
complete
an
important
missing
link
in
ottawa's
growing,
but
still
inadequate,
cycling
network.
F
F
We
also
urge
the
committee
to
note
the
need
for
the
LT
mock
to
do
more
to
encourage
pedestrian
and
cycling
access
to
lands
down,
including
the
accelerated
construction
of
the
Rideau
Canal
crossing
between
Clegg
and
Fifth
Avenue
and
speaking
purely
as
a
citizen.
Mr.
Chairman
I
have
to
admit
I've
been
terrific
ly
impressed
with
the
success
that
staff
josè
again.
Everyone
involved
have
had
in
achieving
this
great
ridership
to
the
events
at
Lansdowne
Park.
F
G
Sure
I
know
what
you're
saying
about
the
ped
Bridge,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
that
you
realize
that
it
was
never
on
the
books
that
you
have
a
councilor,
that's
pushing
for
it
to
be
implemented
as
fast
as
you
can,
and
we
want
that
to
happen.
We
right
now
we
are
doing
the
ped
bridge
over
Donald
Somerset
we've
completed
the
one
over
the
417
and
is
it
15
Clark?
G
That's
the
official,
so
15
Clark
is
not
there's
no
timeline
for
it,
but
as
soon
as
we
can
fund
it,
we
will
and
we
realize
exactly-
and
we
see
the
outcome
that
you're
describing
but
I
want
to
make
sure
and
I
hear
from
your
counselor
that
there's
myth
in
the
community
that
it
wasn't
that
it
wasn't
on
the
books
that
it
was
that
there
was
a
set
date
which
is
not
the
case.
We
are
pushing
to
get
a
set
date
for
for
the
start
of
construction
of
that
bridge.
C
C
H
Thank
You
mr.
chair.
Yes,
it
is
feasible
to
do
it's.
It's
always
feasible
to
charge
a
different
fare
or
to
not
charge
a
fair
and
a
divine
defined,
a
set
of
rules
and,
depending
on
what
the
rules
decided
are,
or
they
desired
outcome.
We
could
help
to
plan
what
those
rules
are
and
depending
what
the
rules
are,
would
would
alter
how
much
revenue
would
have
to
replace.
H
We
would,
in
the
end,
have
to
have
a
funding
source
either
for
both
for
the
lost
revenue
from
current
customers,
who
would
no
longer
be
charged
affair
charged
affair
and
also
for
many
new
customers
through
revenue.
That
would
would
otherwise
be
expected
from
those
customers.
So
it
would
have
to
be
some
sort
of
funding,
source
or
budget
allocation
or
a
change
to
the
way
transits
funded
and.
H
It
ranges
widely,
depending
on
the
definition
of
what
is
free,
whether
it's
a
trip
all
the
way
to
Lansdowne
or
on
the
only
on
Bank
Street,
whether
it's
trip
all
the
way
home,
or
only
on
Bank
Street,
whether
it's
one
part
of
Bank,
Street
or
or
along
the
length
of
Bank,
Street
and
different
times
a
day.
So
it
runs
in
the
multiple
hundreds
of
thousands
of
dollars,
depending
on
on
how
extensive
the
program
would
be.
Okay,.
C
I
With
regard
to
the
number
of
hours,
I
would
say
we
probably
between
1500
and
2000
sort
of
person
hours,
and
that
includes
all
staff
from
going
out
to
put
the
traffic
counts.
The
video
cameras
telling
the
intersections
to
having
our
staff
inspecting
and
monitoring
traffic
during
events
with
regards
to
a
cost.
I
We've
estimated
at
this
point,
probably
about
$250,000
worth
of
data
collection
that
we've
that
we've
done
with
regards
to
changes
that
have
been
made,
and
you
know
a
couple
that
Kona
mine
is
the
the
Homewood
and
O'conner
where
there
was
a
request
because
of
the
of
the
ongoing
construction
and
the
impacts
of
the
concerns
of
residents
on
Homewood
to
change
the
parking
so
working
with
with
o
Seguin
and
also
with
the
community.
We
were
able
to
change
the
two
one-hour
parking
to
11
o'clock
at
night,
seven
days
a
week
to
try
to
alleviate
that.
I
So
those
that
was
done.
We
also
with
regards
to
to
to
monitoring
on
Bank
Street
with
the
businesses.
As
I
mentioned
earlier,
we
had
put
no
stopping
from
one
end
of
Bank
Street
from
the
Queensway
to
the
we
River
for
the
first
game
and
through
monitoring
and
and
me
with
businesses
we
were
able
to
adjust
so
that
we
can
minimize
the
impact
of
loss
of
parking
to
the
to
those
those
businesses.
So
there
are
a
few
examples
of
things
that
we've
done
to
try
to
to
listen
and
work
with
the
community
on
those
issues.
I
C
I
That's
correct:
the
terms
of
reference
will
review
that
again
this
year.
We're
expecting
I
think
we're
meeting
about
six
times
this
year.
Again,
it's
and
we're
still
going
to
be
collecting
data.
We've
got
four
times
this
year,
we'll
go
out
and
collect
the
data,
we'll
continue
to
monitor
redblacks
games
and
the
intent
would
be
to
come
back
around
this
time
next
year
and
do
an
update
for
2015.
That
was.
J
You
returned
Phil,
I,
guess:
I've
got
a
few
questions.
First,
some
congratulations
and
a
success,
especially
from
the
red
block
scheme,
very
pleased
also
for
the
comments
from
the
community
associations
very
proactive
net
and
a
ways
to
find
solutions
to
the
ongoing
problems
when
we're
looking
at
the
67
games-
and
that
seems
to
me
a
problem-
that's
affecting
the
globe
residents
right
now,
especially
on
Bank
Street
in
the
past,
and
was
discussion
about
lucky,
not
opening
up
a
stadium
for
parking
during
the
winter
months.
Sort
of
thing.
J
If
is
that
something
that
can
be
looked
at
again
as
an
option?
The
reason
I'm
asking
is
if
the
entrance
will
be
off
to
formulism
and
partly
that
one
that
will
alleviate
a
lot
of
their
traffic,
that
you
see
on
Bank
Street
and
put
some
more.
You
know,
traffic
on
the
other
major
Ontario
route,
I
date
during
the
winter
months.
The
reason
that
you're
not
getting
is
such
a
buy-in
for
the
bus
service
is
that
it's
because
winter
months
and
people
don't
like
walking.
J
A
Would
support
that
idea,
councillor
Manette,
to
provide
more
parking?
It
is
feasible
that
we
would
cover
the
field
with
a
with
a
material.
It
would
allow
us
to
clear
snow
and
to
to
park
cars
there.
So
we
would
welcome
the
opportunity
to
work
through
LT,
MOC
and
and
look
at
that
option
and
see
what
the
impact
would
be.
J
It
would
solve
your
67
issue,
anyways
and
I
think
on
the
increase
their
attendance
at
games
that
you
want.
Some
would
not
agree.
Secular
aspect
is
the
transportation
delivery
model
and
to
be
successful,
I
mean
there
six
items
that
you
have
to
look
at
and
you
all
worked
very
hard
to
ensure
that
all
six
of
them
was
a
balanced
delivery
of
their
service,
Shanno,
the
transit
on-site
parking,
cycling,
walking
and
on
street
parking.
J
J
C
K
And
thank
you
to
staff,
and
then
the
local
community
associations
for
working
hard
over
the
past
few
years
with
councillor
in
the
shank
would
ensure
the
success
of
this
transportation.
Traffic
management
plan
and
I
think
the
numbers
speak
for
themselves
in
terms
of
the
success
for
the
diversion
of
traffic
for
the
first
you're
I'm
interested
in
some
of
that
Chelsea
Transpo.
More
detailed
breakdown
in
terms
of
where
residents
are
coming
from
the
high
rates
are
they
from
the
east
and
south
and
west.
H
Mr.
Choi,
yes,
we
can
get
those
numbers,
we
do
it's,
it's
generally
very
high,
all
across
all
across
the
city.
We
can.
We
don't
have
the
detail
of
where
the
customers
have
started
their
journey,
but
we
do
have
the
information
on
which
bus
route
they
used,
whether
it
was
one
from
different
parts
of
the
city
and
we
can
supply
that
directly
to
to
the
councillor
and
I.
K
A
We
had
a
very
successful
season
ticket
renewal
campaign.
We
had
many
comments
through
that
process
that
the
whole
transit
experience
was
way
better
than
expect
a
lot
of
people
who
hadn't
been
on
a
bus
in
30
years.
Take
the
time
to
tell
us
it
really
worked.
It
was
great,
so
so
we're
really
happy
with
the
anecdotal
feedback
that
we've
had
and
it's
on
us
to
continue
to
promote
this
as
a
means
of
getting
to
a
game.
Thank.
K
L
Thank
you
very
much.
It
gives
me
great
pleasure
to
be
able
to
say
nobody
is
saying:
I
told
you,
so
neither
people
who
live
in
the
community
who
feared
the
worst
have
been
saying,
I
told
you,
so
it
wouldn't
work
and
it's
not
working
and
nobody
who
was
a
proponent
of
Lansdowne
and
dismissed
the
concerns
of
the
community
could
or
should
be
saying
see.
We
told
you,
so
it
would
all
work
fine,
why
it
is
working
fine,
not
because
it
was
always
going
to,
but
because
of
the
hard
work,
a
lot
of
people.
L
It
was
only
because
of
the
commitment
of
all
of
the
groups
represented
at
Elte
mark
that
we
are
able
to
see
it
working
as
well
as
it
is,
and
we've
been
hearing
that
from
everyone,
but
we've
also
been
hearing
their
selves.
Still,
some
specific
things
that
can
be
and
should
be
fixed
I
will
just
quickly
thank
you.thank
from
the
long
list
of
people
and
Phil
Hassan,
Brian
and
Winnie.
L
As
for
people
who
represent
groups
that
have
consistently
been
at
the
table
and
done
a
heck
of
a
lot
of
work
and
and
still
are
there,
I'll
give
you
a
quick
overview.
This
Saturday
on
two
occasions,
I
went
from
my
home
in
old
Ottawa
south
into
the
grebe.
In
the
morning
I
went,
unfortunately,
my
bank
moved
to
Lansdowne,
so
I
went
to
do
my
banking
I
went
in
to
do
some
shopping.
L
L
L
We
see
a
lot
of
positive
changes,
a
very
clear
convenience
message
around.
Take
the
bus
ride,
your
bike,
it's
more
convenient!
Why
deal
with
the
hassles
of
even
if
you
can
find
parking.
Why
deal
with
the
houses
of
trying
to
drive
right
to
the
stadium
that
has
resonated?
It's
been
a
consistent
message
and
it
is
one
that
if
we
ever
do
look
at
adding
more
parking
on
the
site,
we
have
to
be
really
careful.
We
don't
undermine
that
message.
We
do
not
want
the
message
ever
to
be.
L
Oh
well
now
it's
easier
to
drive,
because
then
we
would
set
off
a
negative.
You
know
set
of
changes
when
we've
just
managed
to
establish
a
very
positive
one.
We've
managed
to
reduce
the
number
of
shuttles
on
lake
side,
I'd
love
to
find
it
find
a
way
for
it
to
be
zero.
It
is
a
big
game
that
it
is
so
few
now
that's
something
to
keep
looking
at
how
we
can
do
that.
We've
increased
the
rate
of
bus
service
on
weekends,
I,
see
a
lot
of
staff
at
Landsdowne.
A
lot
of
visitors.
L
Shoppers
going
large
numbers
of
people
waiting
at
the
bus
stops
there.
That
tells
me
that
there
is
a
lot
of
transit
use
at
Landsdowne.
I
believe
we
should
be
looking
at
bus
passes,
passes
for
staff
for
volunteers
at
the
Glebe
Center
and
others
how
we
can
look
at
bulk
discounts,
OC,
Transpo
and
the
employer.
L
L
We've
got
parking
pressures,
as
we've
heard,
with
employers
and
volunteers
solutions
may
be
in
there
around
timing.
We've
got
enforcement
issues
where
neighbors
feel
like
I
can
never
get
a
spot
on
my
own
street,
but
it
seems
that
others
are
always
here.
You
know
on
this
street
and
finally,
we've
got
pedestrian
safety,
pedestrian
safety.
You
know
a
lot
or
South
we
heard
from
Winnie
about
you
know
crossing
major
intersections
and
finally,
on
the
site
itself.
We
continue
to
have
a
challenge:
the
cars
on
the
site
and
pedestrians
on
the
site.
L
I
believe
we
must
give
the
priority
to
pedestrians
on
the
site.
There
are
many
many
more
of
them
and
they
are
there
feeling
like
once
they
get
there.
They
can
walk
safely.
So,
however,
we
keep
working
on.
You
know
the
few
number
of
cars
that
are
on
the
site,
directing
them
limiting
where
they
are
and
reducing
the
conflicts
of
u-turns
and
and
other
things
so
I.
Thank
you.
I
You
councillor,
yes,
so
the
the
plan
is
where
we're
going
to
be
revised
things.
Last
year
we
put
in
some
green
sharrows
and
revised
some
signage,
and
we
actually
had
a
study
done
to
see
how
effective
they
were,
and
so
based
on
that
information.
We're
gonna
augment
with
more
green
green
sharrows,
making
a
little
closer.
I
We're
also
changing
the
signage
to
try
to
make
it
more
understand
to
people
that
they
should
be
on
top
of
the
show
versus
besides,
so
we're,
hopefully
to
get
that
out
by
the
end
of
May
and
then
and
and
then
we'll
do
some
evaluation
to
see.
If
it's,
if
it's
effective
on
trying
to
get
that
behavior
of
first
mortars
and
on
the
sign,
I'll,
say
a
cycling
priority
area
cyclists
in
that
Lane
and
also
for
motors
to
realize
that
they
need
to
share
the
road
with
the
cyclists.
C
I
think
Phil
and
Thank
You
councillor
mischenko
again.
I
want
to
thank
all
the
LT
MOC
participants
and
members
I
think
the
process
shows
that
you
can
get
some
really
positive,
collaborative
work,
collaborative
results
if
everybody's
in
the
right
mind
space
and
everybody
wants
to
work
to
make
things
better
for
the
community
as
a
whole.
So
again,
I
thank
everybody
who
made
this
happen
and
they
look
forward
to
working
with
you
going
forward
so
report
received.
C
Okay.
Thank
you.
The
next
matter
on
the
agenda
years
number
four,
the
elven
Street
patio
pilot
project.
We
don't
have
full
report
from
staff
moody
is
here
and
he's
going
to
provide
a
few
opening
comments
on
the
report
and
then
we
all
take
a
number
of
people
signed
up
to
speak
to
it
as
public
validations.
So
again
we'll
hear
the
delegations
and
then
we'll
deal
with
the
the
questions
to
staff.
Thank
you.
M
M
The
period
of
the
pilot
we've
conducted
a
number
of
observations
at
peak
period.
We
provided
several
mechanisms
for
feedback
from
the
public,
including
dedicated
voicemail
exchanges
or
voicemail
extensions,
and
an
email
address
signage
on
the
patios,
encouraging
people
to
provide
their
feedback.
We
also
conducted
an
extensive
mail
out
within
the
within
the
immediate
community.
Through
that
process,
we
received
a
variety
of
feedback
about
the
part
about
the
patios
in
Allegan
Street.
M
There
was
there
was
a
number
of
concerns
that
were
raised,
particularly
with
respect
to
the
the
width
of
the
sidewalk
not
being
adequate
for
people's
desires
and
concerns.
There
was
a
concerns
raised
with
respect
to
accessibility
and
and
not
enough
sidewalk
space
for
people
that
require
mobility,
assistive
devices,
and
there
was
a
number
of
positive
things
that
came
back.
Oh
sorry
and
I
guess.
Another
concern
that
came
back
was
about
things
that
I
would
characterize,
is
more
of
an
enforcement
issue
with
respect
to
things
being
attached
to
the
patios.
M
With
respect
to
you
know,
people
loitering
outside
of
establishments
or
obstructions
within
the
right-of-way
that
are
not
necessarily
attached
to
the
patio,
but
created
a
concern
around
that
patio
environment.
We
also
received
a
number
of
positive
feedbacks
and
a
significant
number
of
positive
feedbacks,
which
isn't
always
something
we
expect
as
staff
when
we
go
and
ask
people
what
they
think
of
something.
It's
generally,
we
receive
a
lot
more
of
people's
concerns
than
people
taking
time
out
of
their
day
to
provide
positive
feedback.
M
The
increased
vibrancy
along
Elgon
Street
that
resulted
from
the
patios
was
was
noticed.
We
have
heard
from
the
business
community
about
the
the
benefits
of
those
patios
to
their
to
their
restaurants
and
their
bottom
line,
not
just
because
of
the
additional
seats
they
have
on
it,
but
the
additional
street
presence
that
they
have
as
a
result
of
those
patios
and
people,
recognizing
that
those
restaurants
are
there
and
and
that
it
maybe
looks
like
a
place.
M
They'd
want
to
go
in
and
have
a
bite
to
eat,
without
necessarily
being
able
to
sit
on
the
patio
themselves,
because
many
of
the
patios
and
elegant
Street
were
quite
small
about
50%
of
the
concerns
that
we
received
were
directly
or
specifically
tagged
to
one
in
one
particular
patio
at
the
north
and
of
of
algún
Street
at
2:16,
elegant
and
and
we've
worked
with
that
patio
to
try
to
find
a
solution
that
we
think
will
address
those
concerns.
The
recommendation
that
is
before
you
today
will
allow
the
businesses
on
al-ghab
Street
to
maintain
their
patios.
M
It
also
meets
our
accessibility,
design,
guidelines
and
AODA
the
accessibility
for
Ontarians
with
Disabilities
Act
requirements,
and
it
responds
we
believe
it
responds
as
well
to
the
majority
of
the
concerns
that
were
raised.
We
are
recommending
the
continuation
of
1.8
metres,
unencumbered
sidewalk
for
the
patio
south
of
McLaren.
We
are
recommending
that
the
for
the
patio
that's
north
of
McLaren
Street.
They
did
the
unencumbered
sidewalk
with
there
be
increased
to
2.0
meters
as
a
result
of
the
concerns
that
were
raised,
but
also,
as
we
looked
through
through
some
of
the
the
technical
information.
M
The
pedestrian
levels
at
the
north
end
of
the
street
are
vastly
different
than
they
are
at
the
south
end
of
the
street,
so
staff
a
comfortable
supporting
1.8
further
south,
but
giving
the
pedestrian
levels
that
we
have
the
concerns
over
arrays.
We
are
recommending
an
increase
to
the
sidewalk
width
at
260
neligan
to
2.0
meters.
So
we're
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
Members
of
committee
may
have
either
now
or
after
public
delegations
Thank.
F
C
O
Good
check,
okay,
I
just
want
to
echo
some
of
the
concerns.
I've
lived
in
the
community
worked
in
the
community.
My
kids
go
to
school
at
Allegan
Street
public
school.
For
the
last
eight
years,
I
did
receive
one
of
the
mail
outs
concerning
the
patio
project
a
few
years
ago
and
noticed
them
starting
to
go
up
yeah.
So
my
impression
initially
was
negative.
O
Having
gone
from
being
a
mother
using
a
stroller
a
few
years
before,
and
seeing
that
the
limited
space
that
was
now
going
to
be
as
a
result
of
the
patios
I
think
you
mentioned
something
about
sort
of
north
of
McClaren
being
an
issue.
I
had
noticed
a
patio
in
particular
I
believe
it
was
south
of
McClaren
I,
don't
know
for
sure,
I
think
it
was
Woody's.
Perhaps
that
had
like
a
big
kind
of
chunky
wooden
patio
and
that
seemed
to
actually
bottleneck
quite
badly
with
a
post
or
like
a
hydrant.
O
That
was
there
diagonal
to
that.
So
that
seemed
to
be
one
of
the
patios
that
caused
the
biggest
issue
and
just
the
a
mobility
issue
being
a
big
concern.
It
seems
like
a
lot
of
elderly
people.
People
in
with
Walker's
wheelchairs,
depending
on
downtown,
to
get
to
a
lot
of
them
like
I,
guess
they
use
it
for
different
accessibility
issues
to
public
transportation,
libraries,
and
so
that's
a
big
concern
for
people.
O
In
those
cases,
I
mean
I
noticed
in
a
lot
of
cases
that
the
patios
really
didn't
seem
to
be
getting
a
lot
of
use
when
I
was
I,
don't
about
anyhow,
and
even
in
some
cases
where
they
have
the
patios
and
also
the
sort
of
floor-to-ceiling
windows
that
people
were
even
not
sitting
on
the
patios,
but
rather
inside
and
having
those
doors.
Those
windows
open,
I,
really
like
I,
really
like
that.
O
So
yeah
I
think
that's
about
it
in
general,
I
really
love
Ottawa's
downtown!
It's
the
nicest
downtown
in
Ontario
that
I've
ever
seen
and
and
been
able
to
enjoy
so
yeah
overall
I'm
happy
with
the
downtown
I
just
see
that
as
something
that
you
know
would
be
nicer
to
go
in
the
direction
of
having
more
space
rather
than
last
space.
So
that's
all
thanks.
Ok,.
P
Morning
last
summer,
I
noticed
a
lot
of
new
patios
going
up
on
Elgon
Street
and
also
that
some
patios
were
enlarged,
and
the
city
report
said
that
the
unobstructed
sidewalk
space
would
be
1.8
meters
instead
of
the
previous
2.4,
so
I
went
out
and
I
had
a
look
and
out
of
the
seven
patios
that
I
looked.
There
were
one
two
three
three
of
them
limited
the
sidewalk
to
1.8,
four
of
them
limited
the
sidewalk
to
1.7,
so
they
were
taking
up
more
room
than
they
were
allowed.
P
One
of
them
subsequently
reduced
the
size
of
its
patio,
but
in
that
1.8
amount
of
sidewalk
in
front
of
some
of
those
restaurants
like
Chloe's
standard
fresco
and
Sir
John
a
there
was
about
half
a
meter
of
sidewalk
that
was
cracked
or
broken
or
had
holes
in
it.
That
was
not
usable
so
that
further
reduced
the
amount
of
available
sidewalk.
P
So
if
the
city
wants
to
reduce
the
amount
of
sidewalk
space,
they
need
to
fix
the
space
that
we're
supposed
to
be
using
because
those
distinct
tripping
hazards
there
and
one
of
the
problems
is
that
a
lot
of
times
there's
poles
or
signs
fire
hydrants
in
close
proximity
to
the
patios.
So
when
you're
traveling
down
the
sidewalk
you're
digging
around
the
patio,
then
zagging
around
a
post
and
a
hydrant,
and
you
have
to
keep
wandering
around
the
sidewalk
which
causes
congestion.
We
don't
expect
cars
to
do
that.
We
don't
expect
bikes
to
do
that.
P
P
P
So
that's
one
more
restaurant,
that's
not
accessible
to
me
as
a
disabled
person,
and
that's
the
same
thing
applies
to
people
who
go
for
a
walk
with
their
dog
and
want
to
stop
in.
For
a
meal
or
a
drink
and
the
dogs
used
to
sit
on
the
sidewalk
or
people
with
strollers,
there's
just
no
room
for
that.
So
I
think.
If
the
patios
are
on
city
property,
they
should
be
required
to
be
accessible
and.
P
Another
point
that
I
would
like
to
make
is
that
my
doctor's
office
is
also
on
elegant
Street.
They
have
a
step
up
of
about
this
high
that
I
can't
get
over
with
my
scooter
when
I
go
to
the
doctors,
they'll
approach,
the
city-
or
at
least
they
told
me,
did
they
did
about
removing
that
stuff
and
having
a
ramp
there
and
they
weren't
allowed
to
because
of
the
angle
of
the
ramp
and
the
sidewalk
encroachment
rules.
P
So
my
question
is:
why
would
we
allow
patios
to
encroach
on
the
sidewalk
and
not
a
ramp,
to
make
a
doctor's
office
more
accessible?
So
anyway,
I
would
like
to
see
a
clear,
unobstructed
sidewalk
where
to
mobility.
Devices
can
pass
at
the
same
time
where
we
don't
have
to
zigzag
back
in
around
various
obstacles.
Thank
you.
Thank.
C
You
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
that
there's
any.
If
there
are
any
questions
for
the
delegation,
it's
just
gonna
make
a
couple
of
quick
comments
while
you're
here,
though,
if
you
want
to
send
me
an
email
after
with
the
address
Linda
up
your
doctor's
office,
I,
don't
know
what
happened
with
the
ramp.
Maybe
it's
doable.
Maybe
it's
not,
but
I'd
be
happy
as
cheered
to
work
into
that
with
staff
and
find
out
what
the
issue
is.
Okay,.
P
C
And
the
other
piece
is,
and
I'm
working
at
at
mr.
Wiley
here
with
staff,
take
his
direction
if
we
are
going
to
be
putting
patios
in
to
at
least
do
an
initial
survey
of
the
surrounding
sidewalk
to
make
sure
that
there
are
no
obvious
facts
or
divots
or
whatever,
so
that
it's
what
sidewalk
is
there
is
is
navigable.
Yes,.
F
C
C
H
H
It's
difficult,
it's
difficult
for
big
guy
like
me
to
muscle
through
sometimes
morning
and
evening,
rush
hours,
because
in
Russia
always
pedestrian
sidewalks
on
both
street,
and
that's
these
become
an
issue.
The
pedestrian
had
seen
since
I
thought.
We've
actually
done
at
a
rush
hour
good
afternoon,
which
is
it's
busy,
but
I
would
sidewalk.
Sir.
H
C
C
J
Thank
You
mr.
chairman,
good
morning
councillors.
Thank
you
for
this
opportunity.
It
has
been
some
time
before
since
I've
been
to
council
committee
or
council
itself,
so
it's
I
maybe
need
some
prompting
I
do
two
parts
to
my
presentation
this
morning
to
you,
mr.
chairman.
What
about
the
substance?
My
feelings
about
the
particular
issue,
the
subject
before
you
and
some
comments?
If
time
permits
about
the
process
that
has
brought
us
to
do
this,
to
this
consideration
right
off
the
bat
I'm
opposed
to
extending
the
pilot
project.
J
The
Logan
Street
sidewalks
are
narrow
and
already
have
many
obstacles
from
rider
poles,
waste
containers,
commercial
establishments
and
each
Birds
of
advertising.
Newspaper
vending
boxes
and
fire
hydrants.
The
temporary
patios
exacerbate
existing
pedestrian
movement
problems.
Overall,
the
result
of
the
patio
planet
has
been
a
cluttered
congested
and
less
pedestrian
friendly
environment.
J
Further
staff
claim
the
patios
enhance
the
quality
of
life
for
residents
I'm
a
resident,
so
I
can
speak
to
that
and
the
experiences
for
tourism.
There
are
the
data
to
support
this.
These
are
very
sweeping
new
positive
statements,
but
I
don't
see
any
any
data
to
support
these
claims
and
I
don't
agree
with
a
staff
assertion
that
minor
adjustments
at
260,
Meldrum
and
otherwise
no
change
to
the
remaining
patios
will
address
the
majority
of
concerns.
J
Some
people
I
do
not
understand
why
we
are
going
to
allow
a
significant
configuration
of
a
public
space
to
meet
the
interests
of
a
relatively
small
number
of
business
operators.
I
understand
that
Bergen
Street
will
be
reconstructed
in
2018,
let's
focus
our
energy
and
our
creative
abilities
on
the
opportunities
that
will
present
to
make
the
street
truly
pedestrian
friendly.
If
we
are
going
to
convert
pavement
to
patios
and
radically
possibly
pay
them
to
parks,
then
let's
do
so
in
a
coherent
way
and
take
you
to
proper
consideration.
All
of
the
factors
that
make
streets
liveable.
J
There
is
a
comments
about
the
substance
of
the
issue
if
I
may.
Mr.
chairman,
there
are
a
number
of
comments
made
in
the
staff
report
to
you
and
your
colleagues
with
regard
to
the
process
that's
been
followed.
I
would
just
like
to
provide
some
feedback
on
that
during
the
pilot
process
last
summer,
in
response
to
the
modest
little
signs
that
were
affixed
to
the
number
of
the
patios,
and
also
some
advertising
done
by
by
the
city,
I
provided
three
comments
at
three
different
times
during
the
course
of
the
patio
pilot
on
my
response.
J
Was
generated,
I
didn't
receive
any
any
information
in
response
to
my
questions
about
monitoring
methodology,
which
is
I,
think
very
important,
because
if
you
don't
have
the
proper
amount
of
information
of
proper
amount
of
data
to
indicate
just
how
many
users
and
you've
heard
from
some
of
them
this
morning
are
encountering
the
situation
with
the
patios,
then
you
are
not
as
well
informed
about
making
a
decision
as
you
as
you
might
be,
and
finally,
over
1,600
notices
sent
out
to
people
at
the
end
of
the
pilot
project.
There
was
soliciting
feedback.
I
would
have
expected.
J
As
someone
who
had
submitted
three
comments.
Three
messages
with
regard
to
this
to
receive
such
a
notice
and
I
did
not
and
therefore
I'm
a
little
bit
skeptical
about
just
how
far
and
how
rigorous
that
particular
exercise
was.
And
those
are
my
comments
and
thank
you
again.
Mr.
chairman
and
your
colleagues
thank.
C
H
Morning,
thanks
for
this
opportunity,
first,
thank
you
for
the
for
the
project
itself.
It
was
a
very
testing
it
for
many
many
years
and
it
finally
came
through.
We
appreciate
that,
with
regard
to
Linda
Paul's
comments,
I
gotta
speak
on
my
behalf
of
my
patio
will
be
100%
accessible.
We've
gone
as
far
as
actually
changing
my
windows,
two
doors,
which
was
a
seventy
thousand
dollar
project.
H
H
You
know
I,
don't
have
much
else
to
say
like
I
said,
I
just
want
to
show
my
face
and
let
you
know
that
I
will
work
with
the
city
and
whatever
it
takes
to
keep
this
Patti
open
I'd
be
appreciated.
We
have
spent
a
fair
amount
of
money.
The
other
gentleman
I
just
spoke
I
will
gladly
sit
with
him
and
show
him
the
sales
that
we
did
in
the
one
year
with
a
patio
and
the
six
staff
that
we
actually
hired
for
for
the
season
and
three
stay
along
with
us.
N
Thank
you
mr.
Lucci,
for
coming
in
today.
I
just
want
to
ask
so
your
patio
now
outside
of
your
patio
there
will
be.
If
this
report
is,
is
carry
there
is
supported
by
a
Canadian.
Council
you'll
have
a
two
meter.
So
what
unencumbered
sidewalk
space,
which
is
wider
than
you
did
last
year,
correct
and
so
you've
had
to
change
your
patio
a
bit.
You've
had
to.
H
N
Just
one
other
question:
as
a
business
owner,
would
you
support
removal
of
some
of
your
parking
I
know
that
you
don't
have
any
right
in
front
of
your
place,
but
let's
say
there
was
some
way
of
widening
the
sidewalk
getting
a
temporary
sidewalk
as
a
business
owner.
Would
you
support
removal
of
parking
just
on
the
block
in
front
of
in
front
of
your
establishment
for
the
summer
months,
when
you
had
a
patio
so
sort
of
that
a
give
and
take?
If
you
will.
H
And
why?
Because
it's
a
positive
thing,
the
way
we
work
on
the
others
be
where
we
are
people
are
here.
People
are
downtown
working,
so
there's
there's
no
people
driving
to
Johnny
free
at
lunchtime
and
the
bulk
of
our
business
is
typically
tourists.
That's
speaking
from
from
on
either
the
street.
Oh
thank.
C
F
C
C
A
C
A
Thank
you
very
much
I'm
as
an
individual,
although
so
part
of
the
steering
committee
of
wok
Ottawa
I,
wanted
to
probably
use
closer
than
my
five
minutes.
Just
remind
you
that
Holly
white,
the
famous
writer
from
New
York
City,
made
the
comment.
The
congestion
on
roads
is
bad,
but
it's
positive
on
sidewalks.
A
We
should
remember
that
I
want
to
be
very
supportive
of
the
idea
of
the
presence
of
people
on
the
sidewalks
and
including
sitting.
I
did
a
survey
sometime
ago
that
in
the
by
bird
market
there
is
no
public
provided
seating,
it's
all
patio
seating
and
if
you
are,
if
you
get
under
it
onto
the
lane,
where
the
alleyway
system
or
on
Sussex
Drive,
you
have
a
few
seats.
Provided
by
the
NCC,
so,
however,
we
also
have
an
interesting
trend.
A
I
remember
al
Steakhouse
when
it
was
basically
smoked,
glass
and
you
gun
and
got
a
seat,
and
you
didn't
want
anyone
to
recognize
you
when
you
were
there
and
you
had
sometimes
trouble
me
finding
the
person
you
were
supposed
to
meet
in
there
and
things
have
turned
around
so
much.
What
we
have
now
is
a
very
we're
starting
to
see
it
on
my
section
of
Rio
Street.
Is
it
they're
putting
in
the
glass
walls
they
slide
back
and
you?
Basically
it's
not
just.
A
So
these
already
we're
seeing
an
increased
presence
of
eyes
on
the
street
on
our
sidewalks
I
also
make
the
point
that's
made
by
several
others
that
we,
unfortunately,
the
restaurant
owners
want
the
space
adjacent
to
the
storefront.
That's
where
the
clear
width
or
the
unencumbered
width
is
the
street
furniture.
Everything
from
big
hydro
poles
to
to
my
fire,
hydrants
bus,
stop
signs
and
so
forth.
A
Those
are
located
against
the
street
in
fact
provide
pedestrians
a
little
modicum
of
security
when
there
aren't
cars
parked
there
that
if
a
car
left
over
the
curb
it
would
stop
because
of
these
obstructions
before
it
reached
actual
human
beings.
So
right
we
don't
want
a
chicane
effect,
as
we've
talked
about
as
it's
one
of
the
techniques
used
for
traffic
calming
on
the
sidewalks,
it
should
be
straight
and
they
often
remember
that
the
majority
of
the
store
owners
are
not
restaurant
owners.
A
They
want
the
street
traffic
right
at
their
expensive
store
windows
where
they
can
exactly
when
can
peer
in
and
then
look
at
things
and
possibly
say.
Oh
that's,
interesting
and
easily
get
to
the
front
door
and
go
inside
and
ask
questions.
That's
how
it's
supposed
to
work.
As
you
remember,
we
so
I
want
to
point
out
them
that
that
if
we
really
believe
in
Complete,
Streets
and
I
commend
councillor
Turner
chunko
for
achieving
that
in
many
ways
in
the
main
street
thing
project
is
that
we
should
be
looking
at
the
sidewalks
being
extended.
A
The
example
given
here
of
some
parking
area,
elegant,
Street
I,
think,
does
have
rush-hour
clearance
of
the
parking
during
rush
hour
to
allow
for
lanes
to
operate
am
I
correct,
so
it
is
difficult
to
do
something
permanently
and
yet
permanent
is
really
what
you
need.
The
patio
should
be
out
into
that
area.
Remember
that
a
pedestrian
who
could
be
jostled
out
into
the
flow
of
traffic
when
the
traffic
is
moving
in
that
curb
Lane,
wouldn't
happen.
A
If
they
were
inside
the
little
corral
of
bolted
down
fencing
that
the
patio
is
generally
encumber,
you
actually
have
a
more
physical
barrier
for
the
cars,
but
a
physical
barrier
for
the
pedestrian
not
being
able
to
go
out.
They
would
have
something
to
hang
on
to
before.
That
would
possibly
happen.
So
that's
another
thing
to
to
be
considered.
A
We
have
to
realize,
then
that
setback
all
the
people
with
all
the
things
that
we
need
is
also
something
we
don't
have
enough
office,
which
I
call
people
parking.
We
need
sidewalk,
or
we
need
seating
provided
by
the
city
for
people
to
sit
without
having
to
pay
a
fee
to
a
restaurant
or
bar
to
imbibe
or
whatever
I
fight.
A
That
one
point
8
meter
width
is
what
you
have
is
a
standard
sidewalk
with
on
minor
streets.
This
is
a
Main
Street.
As
isn't
pointed
out,
it
also
carries
commuter
traffic,
so
it
is
I
would
say
one
point:
eight
meter
is
not
adequate
and
so
I
challenge
the
city
on
that
particular
standard
and
where
they
came
up
with
it
and
by
the
way
2
liters
is
8
inches
wider.
That's
all
your
mind.
A
So
anyway,
I
would
say
in
the
long
run
I
would
say:
go
ahead,
prove
the
report
for
the
short
run
only
from
the
2015
I
think
you
need
to
have
to
look
into
other
things:
coach.
What's
on
sidewalks
such
as
a
snow
that
gathers
over
the
canopies
that
falls
down
and
becomes
clumps,
rounded
clumps
of
ice
and
the
winter,
you
need
to
look
at
the
earnings
from
patios
and
the
patio.
A
C
Q
Do
those
great
efforts
as
a
business
owner
I've,
certainly
seen
the
lift
in
in
sales.
We
had
our
best
sales
last
year
and
for
a
place.
It's
not
the
coolest
place
in
the
street,
but
has
been
there
a
long
time.
We
do
see
that
the
difference
in
in
sales
we
have
people
sitting
on
that
patio
more
than
anywhere
else
in
the
restaurant
as
the
immediate
place
to
sit
and
I
think
it's
commonplace
with
anyone
who
has
street-level
patio.
Q
One
of
the
things
to
note
is
that
there
are
a
lot
of
people
who
live
in
the
area
of
algún
Street
and
they
go
to
Clarence
and
they
go
there
because
they
want
to
be
in
that
atmosphere.
They
want
to
be
seen
they
want
to
be
on
the
street
and
we're
now
able
to
offer
that
and
retain
some
of
the
people
that
live
on
our
streets.
That
literally,
would
leave
to
go
somewhere
else.
Q
Woodie's
is
right
beside
the
elegant
elementary
school
and
we
love
them
as
a
neighbor
as
well
as
a
jack
community
center,
and
we
host
the
Christmas
party
for
the
school
every
year
and
third
year
running,
we
have
monitored
anything
from
any
of
the
teachers
there,
and
maybe
there
has
been
some
comments
that
even
kept
them
themselves,
but
for
the
most
part
we
see
teachers,
every
single
Friday.
So
the
comments
from
what
I've
seen
a
bit,
nothing
but
positive.
We
get
people
coming
in
to
the
patio,
with
extreme
enthusiasm
and
I
think
it
comes
without
saying.
Q
More
people
will
show
up
to
complain
and
they
will
typically
show
up
to
show
support,
especially
on
a
Monday
when
their
owns
at
work.
However,
we've
seen
a
great
deal
of
success
and
excitement
about
it,
and
one
of
the
things
I
want
to
say,
as
a
citizen
is
that
my
wife
and
I
have
a
young
baby.
We
do
have
a
stroller
stores
are
now
chunky
and
big,
and
we
both
have
lived
downtown
for
a
great
great
long
time,
and
we
know
we
have
to
navigate
to
some
degree
on
our
streets.
Q
Q
Look
forward
to
the
the
patio
staying
and
the
finalization
of
Elm
Street
is
is
important,
and
if
we
don't
alter
ourselves
a
little
bit
to
compete
with
these
other
areas,
algún
will
turn
into
something
that's
never
been
before,
which
is
non-existent,
and
the
thing
that
they
love
about
organ
Street
and
thing
to
the
people
why
they
live.
There
will
start
to
diminish
because
the
other
streets
are
going
to
pull,
what
the
excitement
that
we
have
away
and
we'll
see
it
to
go
to
those
other
places
instead.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.
N
Right,
Thank
You
mr.
Lewis
I'll,
just
the
same
question:
I
guess
that
I
asked
mr.
Eiffel
Ichi.
Would
you
as
a
business,
be
willing
to
give
up
parking
space
in
order
to
provide
enough
access
for
pedestrians
on
the
sidewalk
in
front
of
your
establishment?
During
again,
during
the
summer
months,
when
there's
less
traffic
and
more
visitors
to
the
city
and
more
people
walking
as.
Q
It
stands
right
now
we
don't
have
any
parking
in
front
of
the
forties
and
the
bus
stop
she's,
not
in
front
of
Woody's
in
front
of
Maxwell's
and
the
fire
hydrant.
Now
we
were
within
the
range
of
1.8,
but
the
idea
of
having
a
boardwalk
is
unique
and
it
could
be
exciting.
I
know
in
the
late
80s
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
parking
and
Brian.
Q
Cameron
did
a
lot
of
work
around
the
parking
issues
on
Elvin
Street,
so
I
don't
know
enough
about
it
to
be,
to
be
bluntly,
honest,
but
the
idea
itself
has
some
interest:
I,
don't
know
how
it
would
negatively
affect
the
street
as
as,
if
we
would
shave
off
one
side
of
the
street
knowledge
or
even
entire
summer.
How
would
that
hurt
the
rest
of
the
neighborhood
I'm,
not
sure.
N
But
as
a
business
owner,
I
guess
and
I
understand
that
you
don't
have
anything
right
in
front,
but
it
would
impact
the
whole
street
obviously
would
impact
even
businesses
that
don't
have
patios
florists.
That
sort
of
thing.
So
again,
if
we're
going
to,
if
you
know
eventually
we're
gonna,
have
to
come
to
terms
with
it.
We
can
have
it
all.
N
There's
just
there's
just
not
enough
space
for
everything
for
four
lanes
of
traffic,
for
parking
for
sidewalk
wide
enough
for
pedestrians,
for
families
for
seniors
and
and
patios
wide
enough
for
to
make
your
business,
vibrant
and
successful
so
understandable
and
sustainable.
Exactly
so,
something
has
to
give
right
whether
it's
the
size
of
the
patio,
the
size
of
the
sidewalk
or
the
size
of
the
so
I
think.
Once.
F
Thanks
for
thank
you,
Jay
I
notice,
it's
about
three
to
one
delegations
against
to
up
to
four,
so
I'm,
happy
that
it's
a
business
owner
you're
here,
but
some
made
this
is
for
staff
as
well.
This
is
a
question
one
of
the
lines
here
it
says,
increasing
the
requirement
from
one
point
eight
to
2.0
would
likely
result
in
the
loss
of
the
patios
so
with
losing
eight
inches
out
of
your
patio.
Q
Do
you
patty
in
my
case?
Yes,
for
example,
with
Johnny
free
nose.
He
whipped
out
is
his
windows
of
a
building
that
he
found
in
her
owns,
so
it's
all
plays
within
a
bigger
cause
where
the
jury
people
on
our
street
don't
own
the
building.
So
my
building,
for
example,
our
windows
do
slide
open,
but
they're
sort
of
bent
about
this
height,
so
the
ability
to
pass
through
is
is
is
not
there.
Q
So
when
you
lose
it
as
of
right
now,
with
a
server
on
the
patio
she
they've
got
about,
I
would
say
maybe
twenty
inches
to
house.
So
when
you
have
that
extra
space
of
inside
the
facility,
then
you
can
swing
over
and
you
have
extra
play,
but
the
eight
inches
would
certainly
put
it
to
put
it
to
bed.
You
literally
have
to
close
your
patio,
absolutely
yeah.
Q
Where
the
fire
hydrant,
but
it's
next
one,
but
that
fire
hydrant,
is
at
the
south
end
of
the
of
our
patio
and
it's
we
built
our
deck
in
such
a
way
where
we
have
the
1.8
from
the
actual
obstacle
itself.
So
not
only
do
the
1.8
from
the
sidewalk,
but
that
1/8
is
also
carried
out
in
any
flow
between
our
duct
and
the
hydrant.
Q
F
Q
C
Thanks:
okay,
thanks
very
much
share.
The
question
is
for
the
delegation:
okay,
I
can't
smoke.
I.
Have
you
first
on
the
list
for
questions
for
staff
or
did
I?
Don't?
Is
there
anybody
else?
No
before
council
minute
goes
sorry,
thank
you.
Are
there
any
other
councillors
that
wish
to
ask
questions
to
staff.
F
Thanks
sure,
again
so
I
just
asked
Keith
the
question
about
the
loss
of
patios.
You
gave
a
pretty
good
explanation
of
that.
I
guess,
I,
wouldn't
think
losing
eight
inches
would
cost
the
whole
patio.
As
somebody
uses
a
wheelchair,
though
eight
inches
is
massive
and
could
be
the
difference
between
getting
somewhere
and
not
and
as
I
forget
her
name,
who
who
also
testified
a
rise
of
literally
two
inches.
Could
you
might
as
well
be
a
mountain
to
some
people
who
have
accessibility
issues
so
the
1.8
meters?
Do
you
count
obstacles
on
the
sidewalk.
M
M
As
you
go
further
south
and-
and
you
know
it's
it's
easy
to
see,
I
guess
when
you
look
at
the
width
of
Johnny
Farina's
patio,
which
last
year
was
you
know
two
small
tables
plus
an
area
for
the
server's
to
pass
and
as
you
get
further
to
the
other
end
of
the
patio,
the
other
end
of
the
street,
you
know
some
of
the
other
patios
down
there
like
town.
You
know
they
were.
They
were
very
small
patios.
You
know
with
with
a
single
table
and
in
a
very
narrow
area
for
servers
to
pass
through.
M
So
that's
that's
what
we're
basing
the
the
requirement,
I
guess
or
the
issue
of
going
beyond
1.8
down
there
I
I
guess
we
believe
strongly
that
that
will
result
in
the
loss
of
the
majority
of
the
patios
further
south
with
respect
to
Johnny
free.
No,
we
did.
We
do
have
a
room
just
to
squeeze
a
little
bit
and
that's
the
basis
of
the
staff
recommendation.
That's
before
you.
F
F
How
do
we
enforce
this
like
if
there's
what's
those
sandwich
signs
put
out
or
if
there's
any
any
obstacle
put
up
by
the
businesses
or
somebody
builds
a
does
it
improvement
to
their
patio
and
maybe
accidentally,
you
know
accidentally
ends
up
larger
than
they're
supposed
to
be,
which
we've
heard
heard
and
seen?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
go
about
correcting
that
within.
M
We
have
the
authority
to
to
require
them
to
meet
the
required,
unencumbered
pathway,
that's
approved
by
committee
and
council.
We
do
inspect
every
patio
that
goes
up
to
make
sure
that
they
meet
those
minimum
setback
requirements
when,
as
as
indicated
by
the
presenter
earlier,
there
were
issues
with
a
number
of
patios
when
they
initially
went
up
through
the
inspection
process.
We
we
required
the
the
patio
operator
to
you,
know
to
adjust
the
patio
so
that
had
met
the
requirements
of
the
pilot
project.
M
With
respect
to
other
things
that
pop
up,
you
know,
we
do
respond
to
complaints
as
we
get
them,
but
it
it
doesn't
take
very
long
for
a
sandwich
board
to
go
up.
So
you
know
we
are
in
a
responsive
mode
on
those
and
we
do
work
with
our
patio
operators.
We
have
this
year.
You
know
included
a
package
with
our
patio
packages
for
patio
operators
to
remind
them
of
accessibility,
issues
and
requirements,
and
you
know
there's
a
continual
dialogue
with
patio
operators
to
to
respect
that
space.
M
F
N
Thank
you
just
back
on
the
unencumbered
space
and
and
who
will
ensure
that
the
conditions
are
met
for
that.
We
heard
from
from
a
delegate
that
you
know
when
she
would
not
measure
there
were
four
that
were
1.7,
so
somebody
might
say:
oh
really,
we're
gonna
have
somebody
take
down
the
patio,
because
it's
1.7,
but
a
councillor
medic
just
said
the
difference
between
1.8
and
2
can
mean
you
know
whether
somebody
is
able
to
pass
or
not
in
with
any
kind
of
mobility
device.
So
how
are
we
gonna
make
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen?
N
How
are
you
gonna
make
sure
that
four
patios
or
there's
only
one
point,
seven
meters,
and
then
you
know
it
takes
three
weeks
or
eight
weeks
or
you
know
half
the
summer
to
make
sure
that
that's
done
how
we're
gonna
make
sure
that
it's
that
the
unencumbered
space,
whether
we
agree
with
1.8
or
2
or
whatever
we
do
at
the
end
of
the
day,
how
we're
gonna
make
sure
that
that's
done
even
prior,
like
it's
easy
to
have
a
sandwich
board
come
down,
but
a
little
bit
different.
Whenever
it's
already
been
been
built.
M
M
But
you
know
when
those
concerns
came
in
I
guess,
given
the
proximity
valken
Street
I,
there
was
more
than
one
occasion
that
I
went
out
with
the
tape
measure
myself
to
measure
these
patios
I'm
happy
to
do
that
at
any
time
with
the
councillors.
But
we
also
you
know,
because
we
do
have
an
inspection
program.
It
takes
us
a
while
to
get
to
all
of
them.
M
N
Thank
you
just
a
couple
more
things.
One
of
the
things
also
has
been
brought
up
today
and
I
wondered
it
as
well.
When
I
read
the
the
report,
was
we
measured
where
we
looked
at
the
flow
of
pedestrians
of
the
number
of
pedestrians
during
rush
hour,
but
it's
actually
often
evenings
when
the
bars
are
full
people
who
are
downtown.
You
know
during
the
summer.
N
So
did
we
let
you
know,
and
residents
are
out
and
about
probably
meeting
their
sidewalks
a
bit
more
than
the
rest
of
the
day
during
the
day,
it's
more
people
who
are
working
downtown,
not
that
they
deserve
less
of
a
sidewalk
right
if
we're
just
considering
who's
out
on
the
street
and
when
they
are
were
there
any
measurements
taking
taken
in
the
evenings
all
the
way
along
elegant
Street.
Mr.
M
Chair
the
traffic
counts
that
we
have
our
standard
traffic
counts
that
we
that
we
use
and
they
are
taken
over
I,
believe
it's
a
ten
hour
window.
You
know
throughout
throughout
normal
daytime
hours,
with
a
focus
on
early
morning
lunch
hour
and
evening
evening,
not
I.
Think
to
the
point
that
the
councillors
trying
to
make
is
you
know
late
into
the
evening?
It
we
didn't
have.
We
don't
have
pedestrian
counts
for
those
hours
for
that
sort
of.
N
You
know
7:00
p.m.
when
people
are
you
know
out
and
about
they're
walking
their
dogs
or
walking
their
bike
along
a
sidewalk
they're
walking
with
their
kids
I
think
it
would
be
worth
looking
at
account
to
see
you
know.
I
would
guess
that
you
work
that
you're
gonna
get
a
bump
even
south
of
McClaren
for
there
and
just
one
last
question
for
now
the
bus
stop
that
is
in
front
of
actually
just
cornered
onto
the
patio
at
Johnny
FreeNAS.
N
Are
we
going
to
be
able,
because
that
was
a
huge
pitch
point,
because
what
happened
was
obviously
people
gathered
there
to
take
the
bus?
The
bus
would
pull
up
if
someone
were
in
wheelchair
or
needed
the
accessible
ramp
for
the
bus,
there
was
no
space.
So
are
we
able
to
remove
a
parking
spot
or
push
to
all
of
that
parking
up
so
that
transit
can
move
its
stop
up
further?
N
M
Chair
we
have
had
extensive
discussions
with
with
OC
Transpo
we've
engaged
with
parking
operations
as
well
as
traffic
operations.
I
guess
I'm
before
you
today,
with
a
95
percent
certainty
that
we
can
shift
the
whole
parking
area.
You
know
two
to
three
meters
to
the
south,
which
would
allow
us
to
then
move
the
the
bus
stop
further
two
to
three
meters
to
the
south
as
well
so
I'm,
confident
we
will
achieve
that
and
and
for
the
benefit
of
committee.
M
The
the
issue
around
that
parking
space
is
really
around
the
accessibility
ramp
and
being
able
to
deploy
that
that
accessibility
ramp
and
have
room
for
someone
using
an
assistive
device
to
turn
and
get
on
to
it.
So
there's
a
requirement
around
that
bus,
stop
of
2.6
meters
as
opposed
to
a
standard,
sidewalk
width.
So
we
are
working
to
achieve
that.
I
think
we
will
have
a
I
guess,
I'm
95%
certain
at
this
point.
I'll
have
we'll
have
that
solution
that
we
can
just
shift
the
whole
parking
area
without
losing
any
parking
spaces
in
that
zone.
M
G
G
First
off
I
think
that
there
is
a
big
issue.
When
you
look
at
a
street,
that's
a
Main
Street,
that's
right!
It
right
in
in
the
core
and
and
really
I
was
speaking
to
the
council
earlier.
It
was
saying
that
in
2018
is
when
they
plan
to
redo
that
Street
I
think
that's
the
opportunity
to
correct
some
of
the
challenges
that
the
business
sector
and
the
residents
are
highlighting
on
that
front.
G
One
of
the
discussions
that
we're
forgetting
is
that
hydro
pole,
that
hydro
pole,
that
pain
display
machine
that
continued
to
eat,
away
at
sidewalk
space
and
and
when
you
consider
the
edge
of
the
sidewalk
and
a
patio
or
a
frontage
that
that
pole
is
not
moving.
It's
it's.
It's
still
in
the
way
and
that's
a
at
play
in
the
overall
discussion.
G
The
other
element
to
consider
is
it's
not
about,
or
business
or
pedestrian,
it's
about
finding
a
spot
where
for
sure
the
safety
on
the
sidewalks,
primarily
and
important,
but
at
the
same
time
that
we
treat
business
equally
and
I
think
that
along
the
corridor,
the
issues
with
what's
on
street.
What's
if
there's
a
pole,
whatever
creates,
creates
a
bit
of
a
advantage
for
some
and
a
disadvantage
for
others
and
I.
G
Think
as
part
of
the
review,
it's
important
to
consider
the
impacts
and
trying
to
create
an
equal
playing
field
for
the
majority,
because
I
realize
there's
always
going
to
be
specific
cases.
We
see
those
types
of
issues
are
familiar
unfamiliar
with
because
we're
seeing
them
in
different
zones
of
the
market,
I
think
part
of
our
challenge,
as
well
as
not
moving
fast
enough
with
the
anse,
the
using
the
existing
on
street
parking
spots
for
patios
I.
G
Think
if
we
had
a
cohesive,
coordinated
approach,
all
the
pressures
were
feeling
on
the
sidewalk
could
be
absorbed
in
that
right.
Lane
of
traffic,
in
this
case
on
Allen
Allegan,
but
in
many
instances
in
the
market
and
across
our
cities.
So
I
think
that
the
report
is
seems
to
try
to
create
a
balanced
approach
to
to
the
situation
we're
hearing
from
certain
businesses
that
that
might
not
allow
them
to
to
go
ahead
this
summer,
on
I'm,
going
to
continuous
and
into
the
debate,
but
I'm
curious
to
see.
G
If
we,
if
we
do
do
some
measurements
of
you
know,
what's
possible
for
an
owner,
what's
the
minimum
sidewalk
and
how
we
we
analyze
those
situation
because
we're
some
of
the
patios
might
be.
There
is
a
hydro
pole
there
and
there
might
be
hydro
or
other
permanent
permanent
utility
structures
that
that
are
playing
I,
wonder
how
staff
factor
that
in
in
the
the
1.8
or
2
or
2.5
review.
M
Mr.
chair,
one
that
when
the
Elven
street
patio
pilot
project
initially
came
forward
in
2013,
there
were
designs
attached
to
the
staff
report
that
showed
you
know
some
of
those
obstacles
and
how
the
patio
would
fit
in
to
fit
into
that
environment.
Because
you
know
elegance
Street
is
one
of
those
streets
that
has
overhead
power
lines
and
those
hydro.
Poles
are
significant
obstructions,
as
are
hydrants,
and
things
like
that
and
you're
you're
quite
correct
councilor
that
they're
not
easy
to
move.
M
There
are
other
things
that
we
can
move
and
have
moved
in
the
past
to
try
to
achieve
a
greater
fluidity
of
pedestrian
flow.
But
I
guess
when
we've
looked
at
the
1.8
is,
is
in
a
mr.
chair.
If
I
can
reiterate,
I
guess
the
1.8
meters
or
the
2.0
meters
for
the
patio
of
the
North
End
is
it
is
a
clear,
unencumbered
pathway.
M
You
know
we
don't
guess
part
of
the
rationale
we've
gone
into
on
the
1.8
is
you
know
we
have
examples
of
1.8
operating
in
other
parts
of
the
city.
We
have
you
know,
accessibility,
design,
guidelines
that
call
for
1.8
meters
and
this
meets.
You
know.
1.8
meters
meets
that
you
know
in
a
perfect
world,
it
might
be
nice
to
have
2.4
meters
everywhere
and
have
room
for
patios,
but
I
guess.
L
You
very
much
I
guess
this
is
a
great
example
of
how
the
cities
shift
to
a
Complete
Streets
policy.
Is
this
something
very
much
needed
and
I
suppose
where
a
lot
of
people
are
looking
forward
to
this
regular
users
of
the
street
coming
to
elegan,
but
unfortunately
that's
at
least
three
or
four
years
away
and
we've
got
a
real
situation
already.
L
Reconstruct
as
part
of
reconstruction
by
8
inches,
and
yet
it
feels
like
it's
now
or
whenever,
because
to
put
a
sandwich
before,
because
there
was
clearly
no
room
now
everybody
puts
out
a
sandwich
board.
So
my
question
to
you
are
actually
around
we've
heard
people
say
on
a
few
occasions
that
it's
not
just
the
patio,
sits
with
all
of
these
other
things
as
well.
So
what
can
we
do
about
some
of
those
all
of
those
other
things
particularly
sandwich
boards
and
newspaper
rocks
or
saw
ones,
there's
a
little
more
latitude
than
say,
hydro
bills.
A
L
A
L
A
L
A
L
R
L
A
Chen,
fortunately,
that
is
under
the
enforcement
is
undertaken
by
by
law
services.
I
wouldn't
have
their
numbers.
I
can
say,
though,
on
the
rare
occasion
and
I
have
to
be
specific.
This
rare
occasion
when
those
matters
come
directly
to
me
and
and
I
deal
with
by
law
services,
the
matters
taken
care
of
almost
immediately.
L
My
sense
is
it's
the
lack
of
awareness
that
people
could
could
be
doing
it,
and
the
typical
citizen
was
the
reticence
to
be
a
one
making
the
call
that
might
be
a
challenge
here
back
to
the
newspaper
boxes.
I
got
on
this
issue
about
three
years
ago
now,
but
they
discovered
that
there
is
actually
a
firm,
a
lobby
group
before
the
a
newspaper
box
industry,
so
to
speak,
those
who
use
them.
My
sense
is
that,
since
that
time,
the
use
of
those
boxes
has
continues
to
diminish.
A
K
So
as
part
of
the
project
can
we
have
proactive
enforcement
for
that
first,
a
little
while
to
insure
and
I'm,
assuming
all
the
businesses
that
are
here
today
are
here
because
they're
interested
in
working
with
us
and
working
at
the
city
and
wouldn't
do
that,
but
to
make
sure
that
we
have
a
proactive
patrols
to
ensure
that
you
know
there
is
no
more
obstacles
that
we're
hearing.
There's
enough
obstacles
already.
That
one
point
eight
meter
may
be
a
good
distance
according
to
your
report,
but
obviously
there
are
apps
obstacles
on
Elgon
Street.
K
M
Chair,
that's
something
we're
happy
to
communicate
with
our
bylaw
enforcement
people,
and
you
know,
as
if
that's
the
direction
that
committee
would
like
them
to
take
I'm
sure
that
they
can
adjust
their
the
routes
or
their.
The
programming
I
can't
comment
on
to
that
on
their
behalf,
but
certainly
happy
to
extend
that
communication
to
bylaw
services
and.
K
M
Yeah,
you
know
we
look
at
the
encroachment
by
law
from
time
to
time,
just
as
a
matter
of
course
through
through
the
broader
process
of
reviewing
all
of
our
bylaws.
This
bylaw
was
also
identified.
The
encroachment
by
law,
specifically
with
respect
to
patios,
was
identified
for
to
be
included
as
part
of
that
broader
review.
I
can't
speak
to
the
you
know.
M
I
can't
speak
to
the
the
timing
for
the
larger
review
that
work
plan
is
being
identified
and-
and
you
know
we'll
be
coming
forward
to
committee
and
council
shortly
so
I
can't
I
can't
nail
that
down
for
you
just
yet,
but
it
won't
be
before
committee
and
council.
My
understanding
is
within
the
next.
You
know
month
or
two
with
respect
to
looking
at
other
issues
with
respect
to
the
encroachment.
Finally,
we
do
you
know,
we
do
look
at
that
bylaw
from
time
to
time.
M
We've
I
guess
we're
here
before
you
today
and
there
are
opportunities
to
look
at
if
there
are
specific
things
we
could
look
at
things
outside
of
that
review.
Given
the
nature
of
the
broad
review.
I
think
we
do
need
to
also
compare
you
know
or
consider.
Is
it
something
that
should
be
rolled
into
the
larger
review,
or
do
we
deal
with
it
on
a
one-off
basis?
In.
K
The
report
as
well,
you
talked
about,
and
then
we
heard
from
some
of
the
delegations
people
are
having
to
go
on
to
the
street
to
avoid
whatever
it
may
be
in
the
vast
majority.
Do
we
have
a
bit
more
detail
in
terms
of
what
those
obstacles
are?
What
those
what's
leading
pedestrians
to
go
on
the
street
to
navigate
those
obstacles.
M
Mr.
chair
could
be
a
number
of
things.
It
could
be
people
pooling
outside
of
a
business.
It
could
be,
you
know,
other
obstructions,
you
know
the
nature
of
Elgin
Street.
There
are
certain
waves
of
pedestrian
activity
that
that
kind
of
go
down
go
down
the
street,
whether
it's
you
know
the
the
Lisgar
collegiate
lunch
rush,
whether
it's
the
noon
hour
or
whether
it's
other
things
that
seem
you
know
the
NACS
shows
that
people
come
down
to
elegant
Street,
for
you
know
a
dinner
in
a
drink
either
before
or
after
a
show.
M
So
there
there
are
waves
of
pedestrian
activity.
There
are
a
number
of
things
that
cause
people
to
do,
step,
arounds
or
step
off
the
curb,
and
we
have
seen
I
guess
through
our
observation.
We
noticed
that
people
are
doing
that,
whereas
certainly
where
there
were
patios,
but
also
where
there
were
no
patios,
because
there
was
a
group
of
people
booing,
because
there
was
somebody
who
I'm
slowly
that
they
wanted
to
get
around.
You
know
there's
various
various
reasons
that
people
make,
that
choice
and.
K
M
Meters
meets
our
accessibility
standards.
Our
own
city
approved
accessibility,
design
standards
that
also
exceeds
the
requirements
under
the
accessibility
for
Ontarians
with
Disabilities
Act,
which
is
1.5
meters.
So
staff
are
confident
that
1.8
meters
is
sufficient
for
that,
but
I
you
know
I
understand.
There
are
different
perspectives
to
that
as
well.
So.
K
M
Chair
I
guess,
like
we've
seen,
you
know
different
sizes
and
strollers.
There
are
different
sizes
of
accessibility
devices.
I
haven't
had
you
know
it's
the
benefit
of
first-hand
experience
in
that
I
can't
so
I.
You
know
my
understanding
is
the
1.8
meters
does
provide
that
opportunity.
When
we
look
at
at
our
accessibility
design,
guide
standards,
there
are
provisions
to
reduce
to
1.2
meters,
provided
there
are
areas
for
passing
and
the
accessibility.
Our
design
standards
speak
for
that
area.
The
passing
area
to
be
a
minimum
of
one
point,
eight
and
two
meters
long.
M
R
M
1.8
meters
is
identified
in
the
accept
in
the
city's
accessibility
design
standards.
So
1.8
meters
is,
you
know
what
our
our
standard
is
for
new
sidewalk
construction.
You
know
we
would
see
I
think
you'd
see
it
as
a
common
sidewalk
with.
If
you
look
across
all
going
Street
on
the
east
side,
I
haven't
measured
that
myself,
but
I
would
speculate
that
that's
somewhere
in
the
neighborhood
of
1.5
to
1.8.
M
We
have
a
lot
of
older
sidewalks
in
the
city
that
had
less
than
1.8,
and
many
of
our
patios
that
exist
today
have
been
approved
through
a
row
of
committee
and
council
to
operate
at
a
1.8
on
encumbered,
sidewalk
width.
So
in
this
in
the
bio
market
on
Preston
Street,
you
know
I
could
go
through
the
list,
but
there's
we
had
a
number
of
patios
come
forward
to
this
committee
over
the
years
that
have
requested
and
been
approved
at
1.8
meters.
Thank.
R
You
for
that
I
think
the
discussion
this
morning,
mr.
chair,
really
kind
of
points
to
the
issues
around
public
realm
and
space
and
too
many
demands
on
too
little
space
is
really
what
we're
talking
about.
There's
no
doubt
that
patios
have
helped
to
animate
elgin's
Street
stimulate
vibrancy
and
at
the
same
time
we
have
to
recognize
that
ogen
Street
is
a
significant
transportation
corridor.
So
there's
a
lot
going
on
through
that
corridor,
but
it
is
a
vibrant
place
and
I
guess.
This
question
is
to
mr.
H
R
Good
I
actually
think
we
should
perhaps
maybe
this
is
a
discussion
for
planning
committee,
but
I
think,
there's
more,
that
we
should
be
participating
in
and
doing.
There's
a
program
called
parking
days
which
basically
it's
a
September
of
each
year.
I
think
it's
around
the
19th
this
year,
at
municipalities
worldwide,
participate
in
it
and
it's
basically
turning
parking
spaces
on
a
temporary
basis
into
parks
and
it's
citizen
led
some
municipalities
have
partnered
with
their
public
art
programs
to
create
a
little
bit
of
seed
money
for
these
initiatives
and
I.
R
Think
streets
like
Elgon
would
be
absolutely
perfect
for
those
kinds
of
initiatives
and
I
I
know
even
Gatineau
has
participated
in
parking
days.
I,
don't
think
that
we
ever
have
so
when
I
look
at
a
street
like
this
and
there's
a
lot
going
on,
and
obviously
it's
a
significant
transportation
corridor,
but
it's
a
people
place
and
I.
Just
think
that
we
need
to
be
more
engaged
in
some
of
these
activities
that
can
start
transforming
public
realm
spaces.
R
Then
we
have
been
in
the
past
and
I
think
we
need
to
be
doing
more
to
look
at
best
practices
that
other
municipalities
are
engaging
in
that
we
might
not
be
as
advanced
and
I.
Think
part
of
our
problem
is
in
Eastern
Ontario.
We
don't
get
out
much.
We
don't
have
a
lot
of
other
municipalities
in
close
proximity
to
us,
so
we're
not
necessarily
seeing
as
much
of
those
concepts,
as
the
GTA,
for
example,
might
be
seen.
So
I
think
that
we
need
to
be
exploring.
We
need
the
planning
committee
transportation
committee.
R
G
You
chair-
and
this
is
probably
just
a
comment-
I
want
to
echo
everything
all
my
colleague
a
discussion
and
after
hearing
from
the
delegate
and
from
the
business
owner
I
got
just
few,
but
just
by
looking
at
Google
map
right
now,
I
know
we
are
Elgin.
Street
is
very
dynamic
and
we
all
care
to
share
the
space
like
Kathryn
was
saying,
but
if
and
I
want
to
echo
also
my
colleague
Dave
talking
about
the
sandwich
design,
sandwiches
in
all
this
new
stand
and
I'm,
not
picking
on
the
new
stand.
G
But
if
you
look
at
corner
of
let's
go
and
Alvin
and
I
understand
how
we
have
issue
with
accessibility
and
people
who
stores
I
personally
think
between
fire,
hydrant
and
boiler,
signs
and
hydro
pole.
We
should
eliminate
or
minimize
the
stands
and
the
garbage
can
to
somewhere
where
they
can
accommodate
them,
because
were
the
corners
and
traffic
like
this
people's
gonna
between
woodies
and
starbuck,
and
there
is
like
3/4,
newsstand
and
garbage
disposal,
and
there
was
a
electric
pole.
G
G
We
need
to
really
see
it,
but
collectively
I
think
if
we
can
enforce
the
boiler
and
review
what
we
have
for
this
summer
to
making
sure
so
we
can
accommodate
the
vibrant
Street
accommodate
the
resident
and
the
accessibility
and
business
I
think
it's
worse
to
look
at
it
because
from
my
comp
from
what
I
heard
from
the
complaint,
it's
in
particular
area
and
I
think
we
should
be
able
to
identify
them
and
work
on
them.
So
for
the
meantime,
that's
just
my
thought.
Thank
you.
I
thank.
F
You,
chair
I
just
want
to
say,
like
I'm,
a
big
supporter
of
patios
and
and
the
businesses
in
this
area
and
I'm
not
I'm,
not
blaming
you
guys
for
anything.
If
anything,
we're
not
providing
I
guess
maybe
enough
sidewalk
space.
So
you
know
I
think
elegans
being
worked
on
in
the
next
couple
years.
So
you
know
there's
not
much.
We
can
do
right
now
that
I
could
ask
for
a
review
of
the
1.8
citywide
and
C
and
I
understand
that
it
meets
the
minimum
in
some
cases.
F
But
I
don't
know
the
minimum
is
the
standard
we
want
to
go
with,
and
maybe
we
can
try
and
be
set
an
example
for
for
everyone
else
in
the
country,
on
accessibility
issues
and
just
creating
an
atmosphere
of
of
street
spirit
with
this
with
providing
enough
sidewalk
space
for
everyone
who
wants
to
do
I.
There's
a
lot
of
demands
on
our
sidewalks,
so
I,
just
like
a
review
of
the
1.8
citywide,
because
I
understand
it's
that's
the
standard
in
other
areas
and
see
if
we
could
possibly
achieve
the
2
2.0
2
meters
for
the
future.
M
Chair,
certainly
as
we
go
through
that
broader
review,
the
encroachment
by
law
and
focusing
on
patios
the
discussion
of
sidewalk
width
is
is
one
that
we
will
be
having
so
certainly
as
we
go
through
that
process,
there
will
be
an
opportunity
for
councillors
to
feed
into
that
process,
as
well
as
the
public,
and
you
know,
I-
think
it's
okay,
well,
I
can't
speak
to
the
timeline
at
this
point
is
the
one
that
will
be
completed.
It
will
be
before
you
again
so.
M
N
Thank
You
mr.
chair
and
thank
you
everyone
today,
I
have
to
say:
I,
have
found
this
whole
discussion
to
be
quite
exciting.
It's
it's
time
that
we
start
talking
in
this
city
about
our
public
realm.
It's
time
that
we
start
talking
the
city
about
what
kind
of
city
we
want,
and
you
know
it's
I
think
staff
for
recognizing.
You
know
that
we
did
need
two
meters,
you
know
McLaren
and
and
to
have
the
bus
stop
removed,
and
you
know
mr.
N
Wylie
is
going
to
be
looking
at
repairing
the
sidewalks,
where
we
only
have
the
1.8
right
now.
But
you
know
we
need
to
look
beyond
that.
You
know
pedestrians
are
by
far
our
cheapest
commuters.
They
don't
cost
us
very
much
and,
and
we
don't
spend
a
lot
of
money
on
them.
We
don't
you
know,
we
don't
always
consider
them
and
nothing
I
dislike
more.
N
When
I'm
walking
down
the
street
than
having
to
step
off
the
sidewalk,
nothing
I
like
more
than
having
a
bus
screaming
towards
me
as
I
stepped
off
that
sidewalk
so
and
it
does
happen,
and
you
know
I'm
a
cyclist
sometimes
I
want
a
wet,
walk
down.
Algún
Street,
with
my
bike
beside
me
and
I,
can
tell
you
that
me
with
my
bike
beside
me:
I'm,
better
off
cycling
down
the
sidewalk,
because
I'm
taking
up
less
space
I,
actually
can't
do
it.
N
So
you
know
we
do
have
an
opportunity
going
forward
to
to
start
building
a
city.
That's
for
everyone,
businesses,
family
persons
with
disabilities,
seniors
we're
gonna,
be
in
a
weenie
doing
algún
street
in
2018.
This
is
an
exciting
part
of
this
discussion
is
that
you
know
I.
Think
around
this
table
we've
heard
loud
and
clear
that
we
have
to
consider
a
public
realm
and
we
have
to
reapportionment.
We
are
starting
to
do
some
things.
You
would
get
some
bike
lanes.
N
Queen
Street
is
going
to
see
why
their
sidewalks-
but
you
know
algún
street-
is
a
perfect
example.
It's
a
everybody
likes
elegance
that
we
live
downtown
because
we
love
moon
streets,
downtown
and
people
visit
the
downtown
because
they
love
the
Main
streets,
downtown
Preston
Street.
When,
when
person
straight,
we
develop
the
BI
way
there
give
up
space
and
parking
space.
N
So
we
have
to
start
working
at
how
we
how
we
reapportionment
space
for
everyone-
people
like
that,
like
the
patios
I,
like
the
patios
I
spent
time
on
the
patios
last
summer,
but
as
always,
you
know
my
fun
kind
of
ended
when
I
would
see
so
many
wheelchair
not
able
to
get
by
and
they
it.
You
know
it's
cancer.
Medic
said
it's.
You
know
two
inches
can
be
a
mountain,
not
for
if
you're
perfectly
mobile.
You
know
two
inches
is
nothing
point.
N
Two
meters
is
nothing,
but
if
you
know,
if
you're,
if
you
have
any
mobility
device,
if
you
you
know,
if
you're,
if
you're
not
able
to
hop
in
and
out
of
the
way
it's
it's,
not
okay,
so
I
do
think
stuff
I'm.
You
know
I
look
forward
to
2018,
but
in
the
meantime,
I
think
that
we
do
need
to
look
at.
You
know,
as
councillor
Dean's
pointed
out
amending
the
streets
by
you
know
by
adding
that
extra
space
and
condemn
in
conjunction
with
additional
patios,
so
I
will
be
supporting
the
report.
N
If
staff
could
report
back
on
the
following
the
effects
to
widen
the
minimum
sidewalks
standard
from
1.8
metres
to
2
metres
the
options
to
increase
pedestrian
access
not
identified
during
the
Elgon
Street
outdoor
patio
project
and
the
third,
the
implications
of
installing
temporary
sidewalks
around
Elvin
Street
I
think
that
it
wouldn't
take
much
to
to
place
temporary
sidewalk.
That
would
give
at
least
2
meters
all
the
way
down,
algún
Street.
N
That
would
allow
for
that
extra
space
for
for
people
who
have
any
mobility
impairment
for
pedestrians,
who
are
with
their
families,
for
anybody
using
organ
Street
Hector
will
be
better
for
the
businesses
as
well,
and
if
it
means
removing
some
parking,
we
should
look
at
removing
some
parking
at
this
point
between
now
and
2018.
We
can't
have
everything
that
we
can
certainly
make
sure
that
that
pedestrians
and
people
who
are
walking
on
those
sidewalks
are
able
to
do
so
both
safely
and
uncomfortably.
Thank
you.
I.
C
Think
you
can
soar
just
under
just
under
a
arm.
There
I
want
to
thank
my
colleagues
for
the
good
discussion
questions.
So
we've
had
this
morning.
Also,
the
members
of
the
public,
both
residents
and
business
owners,
would
come
in
and
and
provided
some
good
put
into
the
process.
I'm
going
to
be
supporting
this
report
and
I
hope
my
colleagues
do
as
well,
but
I
just
want
to
reiterate
or
confirm
a
couple
of
things
that
have
come
up
during
the
discussion.
First
of
all
to
mr.
C
rally
the
commitment
to
have
a
look
around
for
locations
where
we
will
be
putting
inside
patios
rather
to
make
sure
that
the
sidewalks
don't
have
large
cracks
or
did
it's
or
sunk
or
what-have-you,
so
that
the
space
that
is
available
is
now
that
Google
as
possible.
I
see
nodding
his
head
and
I
appreciate
that.
C
That
I
suppose
this
morning,
that
you
know,
even
though
we
set
parameters
last
year,
they
didn't
meet
those
parameters,
not
sure
how
that
happens.
There's
a
permit
process,
I,
don't
think
we
should
activate
the
permit
for
sure
that
the
patio
is
the
right
size,
so
I'm
not
sure
exactly
how
process
works,
but
it
seems
to
me
that's
an
easy
fix.
You
don't
you!
C
You
want
the
green
light
on
your
permit
if
your
patio
has
to
be
1.8,
tapi,
1.7
1.6,
so
I'd
like
to
see
a
process
in
place
that
to
get
your
permit
green
lighted,
your
patio
must
be
the
right
size
and
and
I
think,
based
on
what
we
heard
from
the
business
owners
that
you
know
today,
they
won't
have
a
problem
with
they
both
indicated
they're
prepared
to
work
with
the
community
work
with
the
city.
It
seems
to
me
we
shouldn't
be
catching
people
after
the
fact.
C
M
Mr.
chair,
as
a
as
a
standard
course
of
practice
today,
business
owners
are
required
to
submit
a
design
that
shows
that
they
meet
the
1
point,
8
meter
requirement
or
whatever
the
requirement
is
in
each
particular
case
where
the
challenge
has
come
in
the
past
and
where
you
know
where.
Unfortunately,
we
do
have
to
be
a
little
bit
after
the
fact
is,
as
they
actually
install
the
patio
you
know.
Sometimes
it
stays
out
an
inch
or
two
from
from
the
building
itself.
M
Sometimes
when
they're
installing
it
they
run
into
you
know,
construction
issues
or
there's
a
number
or
the
foundation
on,
though
you
know,
has
a
bump
out
that
maybe
wasn't
captured
on
the
plan
and
in
those
cases
that's
where
we've
had
to
go
in
after
the
fact
and
require
the
adjustments
of
the
patio
to
ensure
that
the
the
space,
the
really
unencumbered
width
is
maintained.
So
so
we
do
have
a
process
to
try
to
be
proactive
in
the
well.
You
know
as
a
construction
reality.
C
But
I
don't
want
I
guess
what
I'm
saying
I
think
what
the
people
in
the
horseshoe
are
saying.
We
don't
want
it
to
be
on
a
complaint
basis.
We
don't
want
a
member
of
the
community
resume
will
get
the
mobility
device
or
a
stroller
by
come
say
how
big
this
is
patty
out.
What
I'd
like
to
see
happen
and
I'd
like
to
see
commitment
from
staff
is,
after
the
the
plans
come
in,
but
the
structure
is
built.
Somebody
go
out
actually
measure
that
he
doesn't
mean
it.
Then
we
don't
give
him
the
permit
in.
M
C
That's
the
case,
then,
maybe
a
requirement
that
says
you
have
to.
Let
us
know
when
your
structures
in
place-
and
we
have
an
inspector
at
that
day-
to
do
the
measurement
and
if
it
doesn't
need
it,
then
we
really
once
the
other
complaint.
We
don't
wait
for
a
resident
to
have
an
issue
around
the
patio
is
that
is
that
a
doable
thing?
C
C
Think
at
that
time,
a
lot
of
the
issues
that
we're
dealing
with
here
today
will
be
addressed
by
design
changes
I'm,
assuming,
though
residency
I'm,
assuming
that
the
process
is
still
open
whereby
residents
and
businesses
can
still
have
input
into
the
design
process
for
the
rebuild
of
Elgon
Street,
and
so
they
we
still
have
time
to
take
no
account
issues
around
whether
they
want
a
boardwalk
or
less
parking
spaces
and
now
away
all
those
things.
That's
still
a
doable
thing.
C
C
Thank
you.
The
next
question
I
have
for
committee
members.
Is
we
have
yet
another
paddler
issue
to
deal
with
the
patio
fear
review.
We
have
four
or
five
delegations
on
this
as
well.
I
anticipate
they'll
probably
spend
the
similar
materials
we
get
on
their
ass
discussion.
Do
people
want
to
push
through?
You
want
to
take
a
short
break
to
grab
something
to
you,
thirsty,
counselor,
Dean's,
isn't
sure.
C
M
You
mr.
chair
city
staff,
undertook
the
study
that
led
to
the
report
before
you
today
is
a
response
to
concerns
from
the
Ottawa
Council
for
business
improvement
areas
with
respect
to
our
patio
fees
in
2013,
the
cobia
identified
that
our
patio
fees
are
higher
than
than
most
other
municipalities
and
as
such,
staff
committed
to
undertaking
a
review
just
as
a
bit
of
background
in
2013,
our
fees
were
a
dollar
37
per
square
metre
per
day
for
the
use
of
that
space
in
the
sidewalk
in
2014.
M
As
we
started
this
process
as
I
guess,
a
sign
of
good
faith
council
initiated
a
10%
reduction
in
the
fee
for
2014,
bringing
it
down
to
a
dollar
23
per
square
metre
per
day
that
staff
have
gone
through
the
process.
We've
hired
Paul
Milton
and
his
some
of
his
team,
I
guess
at
Tyree
facility
solutions
to
undertake
a
review
of
patio
fees.
M
You
know,
and
through
that
process
he
has
consulted
with
a
number
of
people,
including
other
municipalities,
private
property
owners
and
and
and
tried
to
understand
how
they
charge
for
patios
if
they
charge
for
patios
what
the
rationale
is
and
at
the
end
of
it
come
up
with.
You
know,
recommended
rate
for
patios
in
the
City
of
Ottawa.
M
That's
before
you
today,
specifically
he's
recommended
a
further
reduction
to
the
fee
to
bring
it
down
to
a
dollar
eighteen
per
square
meter
per
day.
So
that's
from
a
dollar
thirty
seven
and
twenty
thirteen.
We
reduced
it
to
a
dollar
twenty
three.
Last
year
the
consultants
recommendation
and
the
staff
recommendation
is
to
take
that
down
further
to
a
dollar
eighteen
per
square
meter
per
day.
M
So
you
know
if
somebody
wants
to
take
the
patio
down
after
Labor
Day
weekend,
that's
when
they
would
stop
incurring
fees.
Mr.
chair
I
wish
I
was
before
you
today,
with
with
a
recommendation
that
everybody
supported,
however,
I
think
we'll
be
hearing
from
from
some
people
a
little
later
on
about
about
the
way
our
fee
is
calculated,
and
then
there
is
there
is
some.
Some
cannot
want
to
say
confusion,
but
there's
some
disagreement,
I
think
in
the
way
we've
calculated
our
fees.
We
do
have
our
consultant
here
with
us
today.
M
If
we
want
to
get
into
specific
questions
about
that,
and
and
some
of
that
confusion
comes
from,
you
know
going
from
an
annual
rate
to
a
daily
rate
or
an
annual
rate
to
a
seasonal
rate
to
a
daily
rate,
and
then
that's.
There
are
two
different
things
and
there
are
differences
in
the
way
that
they're,
calculated
and
mr.
Knowlton
is
here
today.
M
If
we
want
to
get
in
specific
discussions
about
the
way
we've
calculated
our
fees,
the
considerations
we've
taken
into
place
like
the
fact
that
spatty
o--'s
aren't
up
all
year
round,
so
I
do
anticipate
a
little
bit
of
discussion
on
that
today,
and
hopefully
we
can
work
through
it
to
a
solution
that
everybody
agrees
can
agree
with
the
the
recommendation.
That's
before
you
today
is
for
a
reduction.
The
reduction
is
something
that
will
fit
within
our
existing
budget
envelope.
M
So
it's
something
that
you
know
for
as
a
city
we
can
afford
that
reduction
and
that's
based
on
the
growth
that
we've
seen
in
patios
overtime
on
a
regular
basis.
You
know
every
year
we
seem
to
see
new
patios
introduced
in
the
City
of
Ottawa.
Those
new
patios
generate
additional
revenues
and
we
can
accommodate
the
reduction-
that's
not
for
recommending
to
you
today
within
our
existing
budget
envelope.
So
that's
something
for
your
consideration.
S
S
S
S
S
S
R
E
Good
afternoon
committee
I'm
wearing
our
executive
director
of
the
Preston
Street
BIA.
First
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
giving
us
your
attention
today
and
also
for
giving
us
dedicated
staff
Derek
moody
and
is
current
to
look
into
this
issue.
For
us.
It's
very
important
to
us.
We've
been
four
years
in
consultation
with
the
city
on
patio
fees
and
we
were
so
encouraged
to
see
the
city
fund.
E
This
study,
the
study
as
Derek
said,
proved
that
auto
eyes
fees
are
by
far
the
highest
in
the
country,
except
for
Vancouver
and
double
what
Toronto's
are
now
staff
through
this
process
has
been
quite
rightly
looking
for
a
methodology
for
how
do
we
set
patio
fees?
What
do
we
Tizen
do
currently
they're
tied
to
encroachment
fees
that
would
be
paid
by
construction
companies?
The
BIA
is
a
rod
or
would
like
to
see
them
impaired
from
encroachment
fees
and
become
a
separate
byline.
E
Steve
necks
already
talk
to
you
about
the
numbers
not
working
out
so
I
won't
get
into
that,
but
I
would
like
to
highlight
that
is
leased
from
the
city.
The
city
no
longer
has
any
cost
to
maintain
that
space.
The
businesses
take
care
of
maintaining
space,
they
sleep,
they
wash
it.
They
clean
the
litter,
so
beautiful
with
plants
and
decor.
It
creates
a
much
better
space.
E
E
Property
taxes
for
those
spaces,
so
we
have
to
be
conscious
of
the
fact
that
these
businesses
are
already
paying
mortgage
or
rent
and
property
taxes,
and
this
is
effectively
just
the
front
space
of
their
business
and
I.
Want
you
to
think
about
what
it
does
cost
the
city
city
to
provide
these
patios
I've
been
before
this
community
many
times
before,
but
the
new
faces
that
I
haven't
met,
so
maybe
I
couldn't
alliterate
what
paddlers
do
for
the
city.
E
E
E
This
place,
we
understand
that
the
budget
is
passed
and
if
they
asked
for
anything
the
value
a
tune
that
would
create
hardship
for
counsel.
We
don't
know
in
these
taxes
to
go
up
this
year.
We've
done
one
worth
put
that
budget
away.
We
would
accept
the
dollar
18
this
year,
but
we
sincerely
ask
you
to
please
look
at
next
year
and
how
you
can
bring
most
biographies
with
cities
like
Toronto
other
cities
across
the
country,
to
give
us
a
much
more
competitive
space.
Thank
you.
C
O
Hello,
my
name
is
Jana
Jennings
nice
to
see
some
of
you
again
and
welcome
to
those
of
you
that
are
new
will
be
look
forward
to
working
with
you
over
the
next
four
years
again
in
respect
of
everybody's
time,
I'm
going
to
try
to
alter
my
notes
based
on
the
previous
two
presentations,
so
we're
not
repeating
ourselves.
I
do
want
to
say
again
what
a
great
day
for
a
patio
and
a
reminder
that
everybody
did
pay
for
their
patio.
Today,
we
would
like
to
thank
city,
council
and
staff
for
looking
into
our
initial
request.
O
O
We
also
do
support
any
reductions
in
patio
fees,
as
husband
mentioned,
even
with
the
recommended
reduction,
we're
still
paying
more
than
double
what
every
other
municipality
just
about
in
the
country
is
paying
more
than
a
third
of
Canada's.
Small
and
medium-sized
businesses
are
located
in
Ontario
alone.
Small
business
represents
job
and
economic
health
prosperity
not
only
for
the
province
but
auto
as
well.
O
O
Today
alone,
in
this
room
we
have
representatives
of
three
bis
representing
over
1,300
small
businesses
and
as
a
cobia,
we
have
several
thousand
businesses
that
we
represent
and
request.
A
review
of
city
policy
has
always
been
attached
to
best
practices
in
the
province
and
in
the
country.
In
the
case
of
patio
fees,
we
and
the
consultants
have
clearly
demonstrated
that
Ottawa's
patio
fees
are
really
out
of
whack
in
comparison
to
the
rest
of
the
country,
and
we
have
to
question:
is
that
best
practice?
O
Patio
is
a
requirement
of
a
successful
restaurant
business
in
Ottawa,
our
long
and
dreary
winters
leave
residents
and
visitors
craving
the
outdoors
and
a
very
limited
time
that
we
can
do
so.
But
again,
as
we
mentioned,
we
have
to
be
honest
here.
It's
a
very
small
number
of
businesses
in
Ottawa
that
are
subject
to
these
huge
fees,
they're
located
in
the
downtown,
paying
the
highest
rents
and
taxes
paid
parking,
extremely
aggressive
by
officers.
O
Scaring
away
many
of
our
customers,
Consultants
have
confirmed
that
patios
and
private
property
are
either
paying
very,
very
low
rates
or
not
paying
at
all.
We've
also
learned
that
businesses
at
Lansdowne
they're
not
paying
patty
of
these
it's
becoming
increasingly
difficult
for
small
urban
businesses
to
remain
competitive
against
the
big,
suburban
box
stores.
The
international
chains.
Patty
of
these
are
just
another
strain
put
on
their
small
businesses.
O
O
This
would
demonstrate
councils
commitment
to
the
health
and
vitality
of
Ottawa
small
business
community,
but,
let's
not
think
only
about
the
budget
strains
on
the
city,
let's
think
about
businesses,
because
these
reduction
in
fees
do
come
back
to
the
benefit
of
the
city
as
a
whole
savings
and
the
fees
allow
the
restaurants
to
hire
more
summer
staff.
A
job
right
on
by
students
trying
to
earn
money
for
their
schooling
and
tuition
savings
on
foods
mean
that
businesses
can
support
that
little
aid
team.
O
They
can
give
you
that
extra
gift
certificate
that
you
want
for
a
silent
auction
at
a
fundraising
event,
with
these
fees
allowed
for
nicer,
patios,
more
flowers,
better
aesthetics,
again
greater
benefit
to
the
city.
Deep
federal
job
cuts
have
hit
hard,
hydro
rates
are
up,
gas
prices
are
up,
water
costs
are
all
up,
then,
when
wage
is
also
increasing.
All
of
these
costs
are
piling
up.
Adding
to
that
string.
O
O
O
C
A
Well,
I
couldn't
consult
with
my
colleagues
and
not
a
walk,
so
it
will
be
speaking
on
my
own
behalf.
I
didn't
know
about
this
item
until
I
came
across
it
last
night
in
general,
I
think
it's
very
good
that
the
city
went
out
and
acquired
professional
assistance
in
determining
what
the
market
value
of
the
space
was.
I,
think
that
is
the
criteria
to
use
in
this
particular
case.
I
would
also
point
out
that
this
is
not
just
any
square
footage
added
to
the
restaurant.
A
It's
in
the
money,
end
of
the
store,
as
opposed
to
the
kitchen
and
a
garbage
end
of
it,
so
it
might
be
worth
more,
but
they
have
taken
to
account
that
it's
not
used
for
the
entire
year
that
two-thirds
of
a
market
rent
is
not
a
bad
number.
I
basically
wanted
to
make
just
two
points,
though,
on
that
one
is
the
principle
that
I
raised
earlier
of
having
eyes
on
the
eyes.
In
other
words,
yes,
there's
someone
out
there,
this
city
who's
actually
looking
at
how
all
the
encroachments
the
sidewalk
space
operates.
A
For
instance,
yesterday
was
looking
at
the
street.
There's
a
someone's
removed,
a
device
there
was
screwed
to
the
street.
One
of
the
screws
is
out
laying
on
the
street
and
there's
now
a
bar.
That's
now
tipped
up
and
would
catch
a
shoe.
I
fear
that
going
through
the
3-1-1
service
would
take
a
typical
turnaround
of
of
several
days
when
someone
could
take
care
of
that.
I
think
that
we
need
the
two
to
be
charging
in
rent
or
trying
to
recover
in
the
immigrants.
We
made
a
lot
the
costs
for
someone
to
play
that
particular
role.
A
The
second
thing
I
would
point
out
is
that
just
as
I
sit
on
the
parking
stakeholders,
consultation
group
I've
very
familiar
and
have
tried
to
share
with
the
staff
the
concept
of
Donald
troupe.
Who
says
that
when
you
look
at
the
fees
that
are
charged
in
these
areas,
if
the
money
was
instead
of
going
into
general
revenue,
which
it
appears
to
do
here,
it
was
actually
made
available
through
the
community
and
to
the
BIA
s
to
expend
on
improving
and
may
the
general
environment.
A
It
may
not
be
presented
quite
so
much
and
I
would
say
that
that
was
a
principle
that
I
would
also
like
to
see
here
so
eyes
on
the
eyes
and
let
the
revenue
be
shared
and
spent
in
the
area
where
it's
collected,
to
the
benefit
of
all
the
people,
including
the
visitors
that
are
coming
to
it.
Thank
you
very
much.
C
A
Was
also
a
parking
enforcement
person
yesterday
put
a
note
on
this
on
a
van
that
was
working
on
the
falafel
place,
I
put
a
note
on
it,
saying
that
he
had
parked
more
than
a
foot
away
from
the
curb
and
there
was
disadvantage
the
cyclists
who
didn't
have
enough
room
to
ride
beside
the
traffic
there.
The
seller
came
out
and
told
me
his
problems
that
he
had
gotten
a
$90
ticket
for
parking
on
a
Sunday
in
front
of
the
business.
He
was
doing
work
on
anyway.
A
C
The
future,
don't
don't
feel
afraid,
use
3-1-1.
We
will
get
back
to
you
that
this
will
be
taken.
Care
of
there
are
no
other
delegations
on
this.
I
have
two
speakers
on
the
wrist
starting
with
councillor,
Dean's
and
then
councillor
flurry.
Are
there
any
other
councillors
that
wish
to
just
speak
to
the
matter?
Okay,
they
councillor
deeds.
Thank.
R
M
Chair
one
of
my
greatest
strengths
is
knowing
my
weaknesses,
and
one
of
my
weaknesses
is
that
I'm,
not
a
real
estate
professional,
the
consultant
Paul
Nolan,
is
here
beside
me:
has
over
25
years
of
experience,
working
with
various
levels
of
government
and
the
private
sector
I'll.
Let
him
answer
that
question.
If,
if
it
pleases
the
chair.
T
Thank
You
Derek,
it
might
help
to
step
back
a
bit.
So
when
developing
the
approach,
we
were
trying
to
seek
a
balance
between
certainly
the
economic
benefits
that
the
patios
generate,
as
well
as
the
market
rigor
that
and
in
and
in
connecting
the
research
both
here
and
across
the
country.
It
becomes
evident
fairly
quickly
that
people
can
tell
you
what
their
rate
is,
but
they
can't
tell
you
what
it's
based
on.
T
So
the
notion
of
compared
to
others,
we
are
higher
or
lower,
is
a
little
hard
to
evaluate,
and
one
of
the
things
we
found
was
a
lot
of
municipalities
could
tell
you
they
based
their
rate
on
other
municipalities.
So
if
you're,
just
potentially
just
going
in
a
circle,
you
may
also
know
that
people
that
lease
land,
which
is
in
essence,
what
you're
doing
here
there
are
two
typical
approaches.
One
is
to
charge
someone
a
percentage
of
the
land
value
as
an
annual
rent.
T
T
I,
don't
think
any
of
us
wanted
to
get
involved
in
a
situation
where
monitoring
sales
and
trying
to
get
into
that
game
was
what
the
city
was
interested
in
and
from
a
value
standpoint,
the
variance
in
potential
values
and
the
challenge
in
coming
up
with
an
overall
value
that
one
might
apply
to
everyone
made
that
highly
problematic
as
well.
So
we
ultimately
landed
on
the
notion
of
using
commercial
market
rent
as
the
baseline
and
only
the
baseline.
T
So
the
intention
was
to
say:
well
if
commercial
market
rent
was
a
certain
number
and
300
was
our
overall
average
that
we
identified
for
the
city
and
certainly
in
speaking
to
mr.
manipulable,
that
that
is
a
reasonable
starting
point.
But
then
we
absolutely
recognize
that
the
patios
are
not
open
all
year.
T
We
also
recognize
that,
typically,
you
get
less
utility
or
value
from
the
patio
than
you
would
commercial
space,
although
some
would
flip
that
around
and
say
your
ability
to
generate
sales
actually
may
be
higher
on
the
patio
than
inside,
but
nonetheless
we
did
feel
there
was
sort
of
another
downward
adjustment.
So
at
that
point
we
have
to
downward
adjustments,
but
we
counter
that
somewhat
by
the
notion
that
patios,
by
definition,
are
only
open
during
what
is
traditionally
the
high
season,
and
so
some
upward
adjustment
potentially
should
be
thought
of
for
that
factor.
T
So
it
is
that
combination
of
those
three
issues
that
yielded
the
2/3
of
annual
commercial
market
rent.
So
on
the
question
of,
is
it
a
discount?
Well,
it
is
a
discount
compared
to
that.
Absolutely.
If
one
was
to
divide
that
number
by
the
whole
year.
Yes,
you
would
be
paying
more
but
you're
not
paying
it
for
the
whole
year,
you're
only
paying
it
for
that
patio
season.
So,
ultimately,
that
is
how
we
determine
the
rate
and
the
per
diem.
Thank.
R
T
I
understand
the
delegations
approach.
It
was
to
take
the
initial
300
and
divide
it
by
365
days
and
saying.
If
you
had
a
patio
for
365
days,
you
would
pay
82
cents,
which
is
300
divided
by
365.
What
I've
described
are
the
adjustments
that
we
went
through
to
the
annual
there
were
negatives
and
there
were
positives
yep.
G
G
In
your
mind,
to
and
I'm
sorry
I
missed
your
initial
statement
to
quickly
go
to
washing
that
would
it
be
possible
to
build
a
system
by
which,
once
we
set
the
revenue
depending
on
how
many
new
patos
patios
come
in,
that
you'd,
be
that
perhaps
we'd
be
able
to
see
a
further
reduction
just
basically
over
a
pot
of
revenue.
The
city
gets.
M
Perhaps
I'd
like
to
confer
with
my
colleagues
in
finance,
but
certainly
if
it
was
Kevin
I
mean
we're
prepared
to
accept
council
direction
on
how
you
want
us
to
generate
our
revenues
and
what
our
revenue
projections
will
be
through
the
budget
process
and
those
fees
are
part
of
the
budget
package
that
are
assessed
every
year.
So
you
know
there
could
be
a
direction
to
achieve
what
you're
looking
for
for
us
to
create
a
formal
review
program
or
it's
something
that
individually
could
be
addressed.
You
know,
through
the
budget
process
and.
G
In
the
report
there's
some
what
I
call
loose
ends
that
are
conflicting,
one
being
the
the
November
April
timeline.
So
my
experience
has
been
that
Jana,
the
off-peak
period
patios,
are
to
be
taken
down
for
winter,
winter,
maintenance
measures
and
others.
Why?
Why
isn't
that
as
clear
in
the
report,
as
is
those
zones
of
the
city
where
that
doesn't
apply,
is
that
we.
M
Do
have
patios
mr.
chair
that
are
able
to
stay
up
for
the
year,
so
it's
not
a
clear
cut
and
dry.
It
is
where
we
have
winter
parking
or
winter
maintenance
restrictions
that
you
know
do
result
in
a
lot
of
those
patios
coming
down,
but
we
do
have
patios
that
are
able
to
stay
up
throughout
the
year
and
then.
G
The
other
one
is
the
April
15
timeline.
We
we
live
in
a
climate
change
world
and
sometimes
on
March
15th,
there's
no
snow,
and
we
it
feels
like
we're,
not
modernized
based
on.
You
know
that
the
opportunity
for
businesses
during
those
periods
so
I
wonder
if
there
is
an
issue
to
to
allow
yourself
to
define
that
date
based
at
the
maximum
April
15.
But
if
the
weather
permits,
if
the
snows
all
melted,
to
allow
an
earlier
start
date
for
the
patio
season,
the.
M
Current
end
of
the
winter
maintenance
restrictions
is
April
1st
we
have
seen
patios
go
up
on
their
previous
year's
permit.
You
know,
starting
on
April
1st.
One
of
the
things
that
we're
looking
to
address
is
to
you
know,
to
to
line
up
our
patio
season
more
closely
with
the
winter
maintenance
restrictions,
so
that
it
is,
you
know,
once
you're,
through
those
winter
maintenance
restrictions
that
it's
clear
to
everybody
that
they're
able
to
start
putting
their
patios
up
under
the
current
framework.
M
G
M
Are
we
are
recommending
that
we
allow
some
flexibility
and
tying
it
to
the
the
start
of
the
season?
2
April
1st
to
clarify
that
going
going
earlier
than
April
1st
does
create
challenges
because
we
do
have
you
know.
We
do
have
things
that
happen
in
the
month
of
March
that
are
sometimes
unpredictable
and
we
may
have
a
great
early
start
to
March,
but
a
miserable
miserable
ending
to
that
months
or
our
winter
parking
restrictions
or
winter
maintenance
restrictions
are
in
place
until
March
31st,
and
then
we
do
allow
patios
to
go
up.
April
1st
thank.
G
You
I'm
gonna
turn
over
to
mr.
chair
just
to
get
a
bit
of
clarification
on
if
their
revenue
objectives
of
six
hundred
thousand
a
year
is
committee
amenable
to
to
locking
that
in
for
a
period
of
four
years,
with
creating
an
adjustment
for
any
growth
of
patio.
What
does
that
require?
A
motion?
Is
that
conducted
direction
to
staff
I?
Think.
C
M
C
G
K
Thank
You
Sharon:
it's
a
bit
ironic
that
were
reducing
the
fees,
one
we're
asking
mr.
Wylie
to
go,
fix
the
sidewalks
on
elegant,
but
appreciate
the
fact
that
historically,
our
rates
have
been
higher
than
other
municipalities.
So,
through
your
study
and
through
your
research,
how
did
we
get
to
these
high
rates
relative
to
other
municipalities.
T
K
I
also
noted
in
the
report
that
the
correlation
is
inelastic,
so
in
other
words,
if
a
business
that
was
my
understanding
at
least
for
business,
wanted
to
get
a
patio,
then
they'd
get
a
patio
irrelevant
of
of
the
cost
because
it
was
profitable.
To
do
so.
Is
that
is
that
fair
in
terms
of
your
research
on
the
local
businesses.
T
Well,
what
I
would
what
I
would
say
there
is
that
we,
the
intent,
was
to
bring
some
market
rigor
to
it.
So,
by
introducing
market-based
information,
you
are
de
facto
considering
the
issue
of
affordability.
The
other
thing
I
would
say
is
that
if
you
look
at
the
trend
and
the
number
of
patios
that
have
been
introduced,
it
has
been
increasing,
so
one
can
make
the
argument
that
you
know
you're
not
in
an
uncontained
rise
right.
K
T
Only
speak
to
them.
If
I
look
at
the
numbers
of
patios
being
greater
one
can
make
that
inference.
I
would
make
the
point
that
Toronto
is
in
in
this
I.
Don't
think
has
come
up
yet.
Toronto
is
in
the
process
of
reviewing
their
rates.
They
are
indicating
that
they're
going
to
be
increasing,
although
we
don't
know
those
specific
amounts
and
they've
also
indicated
that
they
are
looking
at
using
this
same
proportion
of
commercial
rent
as
as
the
basis.
Mr.
M
Mr.
chair
I,
don't
know
that
it
will
be
as
a
result
of
the
reduction
in
fees.
I
think
you
know
we
have.
We
have
consistently
seen
increases
and
new
patios
coming
on
stream.
Historically,
you
know
my
own
personal
view
is
that
the
the
demand
is
inelastic
and
you
know
that
may
have
a
contributing
factor.
K
M
Will
see
a
reduction
in
revenues,
but
it's
within
our
budget
expectations,
so
so
last
year,
despite
reducing
the
fees
by
10%,
we
still
outperformed
our
budget
expectation
as
a
result
of
new
patios
coming
on
stream.
So
you
know
if
we,
if
we
look
at
how
many
patio
you
know
square
meter
days,
we
have,
which
is
really
how
we
have
to
figure
out
how
much
revenue
we're
going
to
generate.
My
expectation
is
that
it
will
be
similar
to
last
year
or
slightly
higher,
and
last
year
we
had
more
patio
days
we
had.
M
M
This
would
set
the
base
for
our
fees,
you
know
and
as
a
staff
person
I
appreciate
having
a
framework
to
work
with
in
that
one
of
one
of
the
consultants
recommendations
is
that
we
do
periodically.
You
know
review
the
review
the
fee
to
see
if
it's
keeping
in
line
with
market
rent
under
our
current
scenario-
and
this
may
speak
to
an
earlier
question
about
how
our
fees
got
to
where
they
were
in
a
dollar
37
under
a
long
range
financial
plan.
You
know
we
have.
M
We
have
direction
to
increase
our
fees
by
the
rate
of
inflation
for
for
these
types
of
activities,
and
so
we've
seen
sort
of
a
previous
to
2013,
we
had
seen
a
slow,
you
know,
sort
of
increase
in
the
rate
of
fee
and
I
was
at
all
or
37
and
2013,
and
then
2012.
You
know
it
was
a
dollar
35
and
over
time
that
that
sort
of
you
know
slight
increase.
It
starts
to
become
significant
over
time.
M
K
C
Counselor
freeze
request
should
not
be
an
inquiry,
but
should
be
a
direction,
and
so
really
what
accounts
or
flurries
is
asking
I
believe
is
to
for
you
to
go
off.
Mr.
moody
speak
to
finance
and
before
count
come
back
with
an
indication
of
that.
But
if
it's
doable
to
set
a
fixed,
you
have
a
new
amount
and
to
adjust
the
fuse
based
on
that
revenue
amount.
As
a
cap
yeah,
we
don't
want
to
see
fees
going
up
again
if
there's
less
patios.
So
that's
that's
the
parameters.
I,
don't
know!
M
C
G
G
You
mr.
chair,
during
a
concentrated,
sweet
street
sweeping
operations,
public
works,
post
parking
restrictions
on
certain
streets
and
not
on
others.
How
does
the
department
decide
whether
or
not
to
post
signage
on
one
street
another
for
these
operations?
Furthermore,
on
the
streets
where
the
regulations
are
posted,
the
crews
performing
the
streets
were
being
paired
with
parking
enforcement
officers.
I
think.