►
From YouTube: PSF TC Meeting 7.7.21
Description
Technical Steering Committee Meeting for July 7, 2021
A
A
Live
right
on
thanks,
aaron,
welcome
everybody
to
the
permissionless
software
foundation.
Technical
steering
committee
today
is
july,
7th
2021
I
am
chris
troutner.
I
founded
the
psf
with
several
other
people.
I
also
maintain
fullstack.cash
and
I'm
coming
to
you
from
my
boat,
where
I'm
going
to
be
for
the
next
two
or
three
months
so
get
used
to
this
background.
A
A
A
Then
you
can
start
to
see
how
you
can
blend
them
together
with
cryptocurrency,
but
that's
a
tangent.
Maybe
we
can
get
into
later.
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
share
my
screen.
Let's
dive
on
into
the
agenda-
and
you
know
so
I
am
doing
this
over
a
wi-fi
hotspot
with
my
phone,
so
I'm
suspecting
there
might
be
some
some
glitches
so
aaron.
Let
me
know
how
that
goes
and
we
can
adjust
for
our
next.
You
know
for
our
next
meeting.
A
Okay,
perfect
good,
good,
good
okay,
so
this
is
the
agenda
for
today
it's
on,
as
always,
our
agendas
are
on
github
under
the
permissionless
software
foundation,
software,
promotional
software
foundation
group
in
the
tsc
repository,
which
stands
for
technical
steering
committee,
and
we
store
all
of
our
agendas
as
issues,
so
people
can
go
back
and
look
at
the
agendas
later.
We
also
include
links
to
the
zoom
meeting
and
the
youtube
recording,
as
well
as
odyssey,
which
will
we're
gonna,
try
and
post
both
to
youtube
and
odyssey.
A
So
the
only
real
big
change
with
regard
to
the
core
software
is
that
daniel
create
released
a
postman
collection.
So
postman
is
an
industry
standard.
Application
for
working
with
rest,
apis
and
rest
apis
are
largely
what
run
the
web
today.
As
we
know
it,
and
so
this
postman
is
a
really
useful
developer
tool
for
playing
with
an
api.
It
helps
developers
come
up
to
speed
on
on
what
resources
are
available
in
any
given
api,
and
so
it's
an
open
source
repository.
A
You
would
load
that
environment
variable
and
and
then
you
can
go
through
and
just
like
on
fullstack.cache
we
have
the
explorer
ui.
This
postman
collection
is
the
same
thing
you
can.
You
know
you
can
check
the
balance
of
an
address.
You
can
retrieve
the
utxos
for
an
address.
You
can
query
the
current
difficulty
mining
difficulty.
You
can
query
the
tip
of
the
blockchain.
You
can
query
a
specific
block.
You
can
query
a
specific
transaction.
B
A
Yeah
he
is
a
rock
star,
he's
working
really
really
hard
and
he
just
got
back
from
vacation,
so
he's
he's
getting
back
after
it.
This
is
actually
a
pretty
light
light
day
by
daniel
standards
or
light
couple
weeks
and
yeah
so
really
cool.
I'm
hoping
this
postman
collection
will
will
help
onboard
additional
developers,
definitely
developers
working
at
companies.
This
is
sort
of
the
industry
standard.
How
a
lot
of
companies
share
data.
A
Next
on
the
agenda
is
this
sort
of
json
rpc
over
ipfs
and
the
pay
to
write
database
project,
which
is
something
I'm
I'm
heavily
focused
on
right
now
and
there's
been
a
lot
of
conversations
around
clean
architecture.
This
concept
of
clean
architecture,
which
was
developed
by
a
guy
who
goes
by
the
handle
uncle
bob,
who
is
a
just
sort
of
a
well-known
programmer,
he's
kind
of
an
old
boomer
guy
who's.
A
So,
as
you
add,
new
features
to
a
program
and
it
becomes
more
mature
and
it
it
tends
to
get
more
complex
and
you
have
to
have
a
good
strategy
for
managing
that
increasing
complexity
and
clean
architecture.
Does
that
and
then
the
second
big
feature
that
it
offers
is
protection
against
code
rot
where
it
puts
all
the
stuff
that
changes
frequently
on
the
outside
of.
A
Okay,
yeah
thanks
yeah
yeah.
You
definitely
let
me
know
when
that
happens
the
so
the
the
architecture
puts
the
things
that
change
on
the
outside
and
the
things
that
don't
change
very
often
go
in
the
middle,
and
so
it
creates
these
nice
segregations
between
the
things
that
change
in
the
things
that
don't
and
so
that
that
helps
manage
this
concept
of
code,
rot
of
of
open
source
code
that
your
app
might
depend
on
changing
out
from
under
you
and
being
able
to
sort
of
manage
that.
So
those
are.
A
Those
are
the
two
main
advantages
that
clean
architecture
brings,
and
it's
really
just
a
way
of
structuring
your
code
and
anyways.
I
have
a
link
here.
If
people
want
to
to
look
into
the
clean
architecture
more
deeply,
I
did
a
video
just
sort
of
presenting
how
I
applied
this
to
the
pay
to
write
database
project
and
I'm
going
back,
and
I'm
I'm
applying
it
now
to
some
of
the
other
boilerplate
repositories
that
I
use
a
lot
and
yeah
I'll
leave
it.
A
There
there's
definitely
more
info
there
for
people
who
are
interested
in
understanding,
clean,
clean
architecture
and
yeah.
So,
there's
a
there's,
a
link
here
where
I'm
applying
that
to
the
ipfs
service
provider
and
that's
that's
a
boiler
plate
that
will
be
intended
for
developers
to
cust
to
basically
fork
and
then
customize
for
their
own
services.
So
if
they
want
to
sell
access
to
a
full
node
or
access
to
you
know,
storage
or
access
to
compute
or
the
main.
A
The
main
thing
I'm
going
for
is
access
to
different
blockchains
you'd,
be
able
to
use
this
service
provider
and
set
up
access
to
an
avalanche,
full
node
set
up
access
to
a
bitcoin
cash
flow
node
set
up
access
to
an
ecash,
full
node
and
then
deliver
those
services
over
the
json
rpc
on
ipfs
and
so
anyways.
There's
there's
a
long,
elaborate
plan
here,
but
yeah.
So
this
clean
architecture
is
sort
of
informing
the
design
of
all
that
so
I'll
leave
it
there.
A
I
encourage
people
to
ask
me
questions
if
they're
interested
in
any
of
this
stuff
but
yeah
it's
a
big
focus
of
mine
and
continuously
steady
improvements
and
then
and
then
to
wrap
this
up.
The
second
line
here
I'll
just
point
out,
so
that
the
pay
to
write
database
is
a
it's
an
important
concept,
but
in
terms
of
like
creating
a
product
that
people
can
play
with
that's
going
to
get
incorporated
into
tour
list,
dot
cash.
A
So
the
idea
behind
tor
list
dot
cash
is
that
it
is
a
curation
site
for
deep
web
websites,
so
anything
like
with
the
dot
eth
domain
name
or
any
ipfs
based
website
or
any
tor
based
website
can
be
listed
there
and
put
on
even
footing
with
with
with
the
clearweb
website
and
the
way
that
this
works.
I
also
encourage
people
to
check
out
this
tour
list
dot
cash
code,
because
the
way
it
works
is
tor
list
has
its
own
local
database
and
then
it
attaches
to
this
pay
to
write
database.
A
A
That
leverages
this
decentralized
censorship
resistant
database
and
you
can
ignore
everything
in
the
database
that
doesn't
directly
apply
to
your
app
through
the
use
of
this
web
hook.
So
only
the
entries
going
in
the
database
that
directly,
you
know
conform
to
the
standard
that
tor
list
is
going
to
use.
A
Tour
list
will
get
notified
by
those
through
the
web
hook,
and
so
this
will
let
a
whole
range
of
different
applications
use
the
same
pay-to-write
database
without
stepping
on
one
another's
toes
and
they
can
all
leverage
this
censorship-resistant
quality
to
it
without
without
you
know,
bogging
down
one
another.
So
it's
it's,
I
I
don't
know
if
I'm
doing
a
great
job
explaining
it
or
the
the
sort
of
proof
profundity
of
of
of
this
idea,
but
I'm
just
gonna
keep
working
on
it
and
all
right,
hopefully
I'll
have
something
to
show.
Let.
B
Me
ask
some
questions
to
kind
of
rephrase
this
and
I'm
I
think
I
get
I'm
getting
where
you're
coming
from
so
there's.
You
said
about
two
or
three
big
things
right
there
number
one
tour
list
is
in
so
you're
kind
of
trying
to
develop
the
google
for
the
deep
web
web
search
a
little
bit.
So
is
that
right,
like
a
way
to
curate
these
websites
that
are
on
the
deep
web,
dot
eth
dot
bch?
If
you
know
stoian
you,
you
helped
develop
some
of
that
stuff.
B
A
D
A
Zoom
way
out,
I
like
to
think
this
in
terms
of
like
the
the
evolution
of
the
internet,
so
there's
web
1.0,
which
was
just
static
web
pages,
just
html
and
css
and
javascript,
and
then
web
2.0
was
largely
defined
by
the
ability
yeah.
Let
me
stop
I'm
going
to
stop
sharing
and
switch
back
to
the.
I
guess
you
can
take
care
of
that
with
your
camera.
Yeah
you're,
fine!
A
So
if
one,
if
web
1.0
is
defined
as
static
web
pages
and
web
2.0
was
defined
as
giving
database
access
to
those
web
pages,
so
all
of
a
sudden
that
enabled
craigslist
and
twitter
and
youtube
where
someone
could
essentially
interact
with
a
database
over
a
web
page
and
that's
and
that
changed
the
entire
landscape.
Because
now
one
user
visiting
a
web
page
could
change
the
state
of
that
web
page
so
that
a
second
user
coming
to
the
web
page
would
have
a
different
experience,
because
the
state
had
been
changed
by
that
first
user.
A
And
so
that's
that's.
You
know
you
could
lump
twitter
youtube
facebook,
myspace
craigslist,
all
those
fall
into
that
bucket.
So
what
I
see,
as
sort
of
you
know,
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
web
3.0,
which
is
being
able
to
access
the
blockchain
directly
with
the
web
browser.
That's
neat,
that's
useful,
but
that's
not
the
same
thing
as
a
database.
Blockchains
are
like
really
shitty
databases
and
we
really
need
a
good
database.
A
That's
that
has
the
qualities
of
a
blockchain.
That's
censorship,
resistant
descent
when
it
gets
it,
achieves
censorship,
resistance
by
being
decentralized
and
achieves
decentralization
by
being
small
and
nimble
and
and
replicated
many
times
by
many
people.
So
that's
that's
largely
what
I'm
trying
to
that's
the
problem
I'm
trying
to
solve
with
this
pay
to
write
database
and
if,
if
this
is
the
right
direction
to
head,
it's
going
to
be
very
profound.
B
So,
as
I'm
hearing
is
the
the
problem
is
that
we
need
a
database,
that's
able
to
store
more
than
the
blockchain
can
store,
but
acts
like
blockchain
right
right
and
the
idea
with
the
pay
to
write
database
is
to
provide
some
sort
of
barrier
to
entry
to
prevent
spam
from
happening
and
prevent
preventing
it
from
being
unusable
for
everybody.
And
then
we
have
the
idea
of
once
you've
paid
the
right
to
this
database
and
you're.
Using
this
information
for
your
web
application.
B
You
can
also
get
listed
on
tour
lists,
dot
cash
as
an
easy
way
to
find
your
web
application,
or
your
website
correct,
correct,
yeah,
all
right
and
then
a
step
further
is
because
we
don't
want
these
applications
to
take
in
everybody's
data
from
the
pay
to
write
database,
we're
talking
about
developing
a
way
to
just
zero
in
on
your
data.
It's
just
your
data
that
your
web
application,
you're
gonna,
ignore
everything
else,
and
that's
where
these
web
hooks
come
in.
A
C
Before
before,
blockchain
cam,
the
idea
about
the
web
3
was
to
be
real
time
and
you
also
to
have
push
means
not
to
just
get
something
but
from
the
server
you
get
pushes
about
some
information,
and
this
was
the
the
burn
of
the
web
hooks
like
in
this
case.
Our
server
like
will
be
this
paid
to
database,
but
we
don't
want
to
to
every
five
seconds
to
get
information
from
there
when
something
come
to
it.
It
will
push
from
there
to
to
your
application,
in
this
case
storylist
right,
yeah
right
exactly.
C
A
Exactly
I
think,
and
there's
a
there's,
a
more
elaborate
plan
here
for
to
improve
decentralization,
and
I
I
don't
know
if
we
I
don't
really
want
to
like
we
could
go.
We
talked
about
this
for
another
half
hour
in
terms
of
all
just
this
greater
plan,
but
but
yeah
this
web
hook,
which
is
a
new
feature
as
of
this
week,
is
a
step
down
that
road.
B
That's
great,
you
know,
and
to
piggyback
off
of
what
you're
staying
stoing
for
the
layman
out
there.
It's
kind
of
like
the
difference
between
going
to
check
your
mailbox
every
every
minute
of
the
day
to
see.
If
your
mail
is
there
and
then
somebody
going
hey
your
mail's
here
and
you
only
have
to
check
it
once
a
day.
You
know
because
a
lot
of
people,
the
people
watching
this
probably
understand
but
there's
other
people
that
probably
don't
understand
that
right
now.
It's
it's
just
queries,
hey
is
it
there
now?
B
C
B
A
Let
well
let's
go
ahead
and
wrap
up
these
last
couple
things,
because
I
went
ahead
and
shared
my
screen
again
to
show
the
rest
of
the
agenda
and
we'll
get
through
these
and
then
yeah.
I've
got
a
couple
questions
for
stoian
with
the
nft
stuff,
which
is
why
I
left
that
at
the
end,
but
yeah,
I'm
happy
to
return
back
to
this
idea
of
the
pay
to
write
database
and
I
can
expand
on
some
of
the
other
ideas
that
I
have
there,
but
yeah
just
to
wrap
up
the
agenda.
A
This
multiple
op
return
feature
that
was
added
to
bitcoin
cash,
and
so
the
avalanche
side
is
pretty
slick
because
they've
got
zero
confirmation
and
they
can
send
a
token
and
add
a
memo
to
the
transaction
in
one
transaction,
which
is
what
we
needed
in
order
to
specify,
where
the
token
should
land
on
the
other
side
of
the
bridge,
and
so
it
got
a
little
clunky
trying
to
implement
those
same
features
on
the
bitcoin
cash
side.
We
had
to
do
multiple
transactions
because,
prior
to
november,
you
could
only
have
one.
A
A
So
now
we
can
do
that
with
a
single
transaction
and
what's
really
nice
about
the
way,
because
we
can
leverage
this
multiple
op
return
feature
that's
been
added
to
the
bitcoin
cash
transactions
and,
what's
really
nice
about
the
way
that
gary
implemented.
This
is
that
it's
it's.
I
don't
even
think
it's
an
environment
variable.
I
think
it's
just
automatic,
where
the
bridge
will
check
for
multiple
opera
turns
and
if
it
finds
it,
it'll
use
it.
A
A
With
avalanche
and
there's
already
a
command
in
there
for
sending
tokens
across
the
bridge
from
the
avalanche
side
to
the
the
bitcoin
cash
side
and
he's
working,
I'm
hoping
that
our
next
week
I'll
be
able
to
announce
that
he's
he's
added
a
command
for
the
slp
cly
wallet
to
send
a
token
from
the
bitcoin
cash
side
to
the
avalanche
side.
We
have
a
way
to
do
that.
We
have
a
graphical
user
interface
for
doing
that.
But
but
it'll
be
nice
when
we
have
the
same
command
in
the
two
command
line.
Wallets.
A
Yeah,
it's
just
a
temporary
proof
of
concept
gui,
but
yeah
I'm
happy
to
share
it
with
anybody
who
wants
to
play
with
the
token
bridge
and
kick
the
tires.
So
it's
just
a
fork
of
wallet.fullstack.cash
and
well.
It
lets
you
daniel
built
it
and
what
it
lets
you
do
is
request
a
test
token
from
our
faucet
and
then
send
the
token
across
the
bridge
to
and
specify
an
avalanche
address
that
you
want
the
token
to
be
sent
to.
On
the
other
side.
A
Yeah
I
it's
still
so
it's
still
things
things
I
have
to
emphasize
again
like
this
isn't
a
general
bridge.
For
every
token,
you
have
to
build
a
bridge
for
each
token,
but
we're
at
a
point
where
you
know,
companies
that
are
interested
or
developers
who
are
interested
in
this
tech,
like
we've,
got
a
lot
of
open
source
tech,
proof
of
concepts
stuff
to
copy
stuff
to
hack
on
and
where
there's
there's
nothing
holding
anyone
back
from
setting
up
a
token
bridge
for
their
own
token,.
B
B
A
B
A
B
B
A
B
Yeah
that
that
is
cool,
because
I
I
could
see
that
being
very,
very
effective
and
we'll
get
into
this
at
the
end.
But
I
I
think
there
are
so
many
more
use
cases
for
tokens
than
we
even
realize
sometimes-
and
so
I
I
mentioned
to
you
in
a
telegram
about-
I
was
talking
to
a
farmer
and
a
farm
insurance
agency
at
a
wedding
and
so
I'll.
Let
you
finish
this
up,
and
then
we
can
talk
more
about
that.
A
Okay,
okay,
okay,
yeah
yeah,
well
speaking
of
use
cases,
we
haven't
even
thought
of
yet.
Finally,
big
shout
out
here
to
stoyan,
who
submitted
several
new
nft
commands
to
the
slp
cly
wallet.
I
had
a
chance
to
play
with
them,
and
so
I
was
able
to
create
a
group
token
and
then
create
a
child
token
and
then
burn
that
child
token,
and
I
can't
remember
what
the
fourth
command
was,
but
I
played
with
all
of
them
and
man
it
made
working
with
nfts
a
hell
of
a
lot
easier.
A
D
A
That's
funny,
I
can
see
myself
freeze
on
your
on
your
copy,
sorry,
so
the
bcpjs
library
that
you
built
stoyan.
That's
a
lot!
That's
my
understanding.
I
meant
to
play
with
this
before
our
meeting,
so
I
wasn't
so
ignorant,
but
unfortunately
I
am.
The
that's
used
for
making
metadata
is
my
understanding
of
like
encoding
like
a
video
or
a
music
file
or
a
picture,
and
then
that
generates
a
transaction
and
that
would
go
into
the
document
hash.
Do
I
have
that
right?
I
feel
like.
I
don't
have
that
right.
C
C
C
D
C
D
D
C
A
C
It's
intended
to
be
just
an
op
return
if
it's
separate
transaction
and
then
you
put
this
separate
transaction
tx
id
in
the
document-
url,
okay,
so,
okay,
it
was
before
the
multiply
operating
thing.
So
you
have
the
main
transaction
with
sop:
token
information
and
inside
the
document
url
you
will
have
another
transaction
tx
id
and
this
another.
C
Txid,
it's
only
media
information.
So
this
thing
right,
like
operator,
okay,
stuff
that
we're
trying
now
is
you
do
not
have
this
dock
return
with
txid.
But
to
put
this
encoded
information
like
a
second
op
return
in
the
same
transaction,
and
then
you
can
use
this
doc
url
for
what
you
want,
pointing
to
another
step.
A
A
Right.
Okay,
so
that's
that's
why
I
wanted
to
ask
so
the
workflow
that
I'm
kind
of
envisioning
and
maybe
I'm
making
some
of
the
mistakes
here.
I
need
to
to
really
actually
do
it
for
myself.
So
I
understand
that
I'm
getting
this
right,
but
the
instead
of
doing
a
second
op
return
that
that
data
from
bcpjs
would
that
would
essentially
generate
a
transaction
with
its
own
op
return.
A
And
then,
if
that
transaction
id
well,
essentially
I'm
trying
to
tie
the
work
that
you've
done
with
bcpjs
and
this
these
nft
commands
in
the
clywallet
with
the
the
mutable
data
spec,
and
I
think
we're
really
close.
We've
basically
got
there's
like
three
or
four
pieces,
and
we
just
need
to
figure
out
how
to
put
the
pieces
together,
but
we
should
be
able
to
generate
an
nft.
A
That,
then,
contains
the
probably
the
immutable
data,
which
is
what
bcpjs
would
generate,
which
is
like
the
thing
that
the
nft
is
about,
which
is
like
the
media,
but
then
also
have
you
know
this
following
that
mutable
data
spec
a
way
to
add
data
over
time
or
additional
changing
data
to
to
the
nft
that
a
wallet
could
could
pick
up
on.
So
you
have
like
the
token
and
a
way
to
retrieve
the
media
that
the
token
represents
and
a
way
to
retrieve
a
changing
state.
B
A
F
A
C
It's
yeah
with
this
new
clan
wallet.
You
can
see
the
sources
but
pretty
much
inside
the
the
create
where,
before
the
create
child
code,
you
just
need
to
add
one
payload
part
in
your
javas
json
configuration
for
the
sop
token,
so
it
will
be
named
or
sticker
or
something
and
there
will
be
payload
and
you
put
there
what
type
of
payload
you
want
and
where
is
the
it
exactly
on
ipfs
or
something
and
the
library
will
do
all
this
encoding
for
you
and
it
will
create
the
second
op
return.
A
C
But
recently
I
I
thought
it's
hard
to
see
this
bcp
is
cool,
but
I
don't
see
many
people
using
it.
So
I
was
thinking
about
the
to
have
something
like
nft
get
media
call
or
something
because
we
have
already
so
many
types
of
nfts
which
are
doing
it's
differently
like,
for
example,
this
token
straight
on
jungle.
They
have
a
file
on
github,
with
the
urls
to
the
to
the
like
main
urls
to
images.
C
So
you
get
the
main
url
from
github
and
you
add
like
exact
image
like
cut
to
this
main
stuff.
We
have
another
one
that
they're
using
document
url
but
they're,
just
putting
there
the
ipfs
hash
or
we
have
another
one
data,
putting
their
ipfs
colon,
slash,
slash
in
the
hash,
so
so
many
variations
that
it's
good
to
have.
One
library
which
will
just
you
should
go.
D
A
Yeah,
that's
a
really
good
point.
I
mean
there's
yeah
because
there's
been
such
a
time
gap
between
the
two
ways
of
dealing
with
tokens
that
have
become
sort
of
the
industry
standard
which
are
very
limited
and
permissioned,
and
then
you
know
the
way
that
I'd
like
to
do
it
with
this
mutable
spec,
like
maybe
that's
how
we
get
out
in
front
of
this
whole
thing,
if,
if
say
like,
our
organization
wanted
to
own
own
the
the
standard
for
for
token
icons,
yeah.
I
think
I
think
what
you're
saying
is
right.
A
We
we
could
create
a
get
media
call
which
works
with
the
pre-existing
ways
of
doing
token
icons,
and
then
we
could
add
our
mutable
data
way
of
doing
it
to
try
and
encourage
people
to
to
use
this.
This
permissionless
way
of
doing
token
icons,
which
can
be
updated
over
time,
which
those
are
those
are
two
big
features
that
the
existing
ways
of
doing
it,
don't
don't
possess,
but
yeah,
but
it
would
allow
us
to
have
backwards
compatibility
which
is
really
valuable.
C
A
It's
like
yeah
yeah
another
question
for
historian.
I
have
not
yet
had
a
chance
to
look
too
deeply
into
nft.storage,
but
is
your
do
you?
I
think
you've
looked
at
it
and
do
you
think
that
it
would
be
possible
to
leverage
that
in
a
in
a
bch
nft
in
terms
of
storing
I,
my
understanding
is
that
nft.storage
is,
is
a
way
to
upload
like
artwork,
for
an
nft
and
and
have
it
saved
to
file
coin
and
ipfs.
C
I
think
it
can
be
used
for
everything
it's
very
hard
to
see
a
very
it's
just
combining
ipfs
and
filecoin
how
you
use
it.
I
don't
think
they
specified
it's
just
one:
they
they
have
a
javascript
library,
so
you
can
use
it
in
any
of
your
project.
So
what
you
store
on
nft
storage?
It's
not
nft
media
only!
I
think
it
can
be
pretty
much.
A
A
A
Is
this
idea
of
a
decentralized
id
or
a
did
and
and
being
able
to
you
know,
an
idea
is
more
than
just
like
I
mean
the
obvious
canonical
use
cases
is
like
social
media
identification
like
your
facebook
profile
or
your
twitter
profile
being
able
to
do
that
in
a
decentralized
way.
That's
not
tied
to
any
one
specific,
like
service
provider
like
twitter
or
facebook
that
you
have
full
control
of
that
you
can
revoke.
A
C
No,
I
mean
I
also,
I
don't
remember
everything,
because
I
briefly
look
on
them,
but
maybe
they
they
allow
several
like
back
ends
to
be
not
only
ipfs
but
something
else.
So
it
can
be
interesting
to
combine
their
streams
with
pay
to
database
like
a
back
end
yeah,
I'm
not
sure
if
it's
possible,
but
why
not.
A
C
A
Also,
the
idea
of
the
pay
to
write
database
and
and
the
json
rpc
over
ipfs.
It
leverages
this
core
concept
of
pub
subs
pub
pub
subscribe
channels
and
that's
what
lets
like
a
bunch
of
random
ipfs
nodes
to
on
the
fly
form
a
sub
network
around
their
their
pub
sub
channel,
and
that's
essentially
how
the
json
rpc
over
ipfs
works
and
what
I
need
to
understand
about
ceramic
is
sort
of
how
they're
doing
that
coordination
layer.
A
I'm
sure
pub
sub
channels
are
involved,
but
I
think
there's
a
lot
more
going
on
there
than
just
pub
sub
channels.
In
terms
of
you
know
how
how
everybody
talks
to
one
another
and
how
everybody
finds
one
another,
that
whole
coordination
layer
but
yeah
yeah.
My
understanding
is
basically
their
protocol
is
a
way
for
you
to
take
just
about
any
piece
of
data
anywhere
and
feed
it
into
to
something
else.
So
yeah.
B
A
B
A
C
C
A
Yeah
I
need
to,
I
need
to
look
into
it.
I
mean
the
so
there's
the
file,
there's
ipf
ipfs
file
hosting
available
at
message.fullstack.cache,
but
it
doesn't
have
any
tie
to
filecoin
and
so
yeah.
I
want
to
understand
how
nft.storage
is
doing
it
and
my
understanding
is
a
free
service
and
and
sort
of
see
if
what
would
be
better
to
leverage
like.
A
Should
we
take
the
time
to
add
filecoin
uploads
to
message.fullstack.cache,
or
should
we
just
leverage,
you
know
the
free
service
at
nft.storage,
and
and
if
can
we
get
some
sort
of
like
a
cid
that
we
can
just
add
to
tokenmetadata
and
call
it
good
like?
Do
we
even
need
to
inject
anything
bitcoin
cash
specific
into
this
process.
E
B
B
I
don't
know
you
know,
so
they
have
they've
just
a
command
line
to
pin
your
your
artwork,
but
you
know
I'm
I'm
not
sure
where
they're
pinning
it
and
are
they
going
to
get
tired
of
pinning
it
one
day
and
then
it's
down
you
know
I
I
don't
know
those
I
would
maybe
I
was
gonna
say.
I
would
suppose
that
if
they're
trying
to
say
this
is
the
long
for
the
long
haul,
they'd
be
they're
trying
to
do
a
permanent
type
of
thing.
But
you
know
I'd
have
to
look
into
it.
So.
C
It's
not
only
it's
mostly
nft,
but
it's
like
a
blockchain
dedicated
to
data.
It's
a
very
hard
to
see
very
complex
idea,
and
this
is
near
protocol
they're,
using
it
a
lot
for
the
for
them
nfts.
But
if
you
look
on
their
data,
it's
just
like
a
data
with
a
json
metadata
attached
to
it,
but
you
have
like
a
transactions
for
everything,
so
it's
like
database
blockchain,
pretty
interesting
and
they're,
using
it
for
a
lot
of
stuff
like
this
git
stuff,
so
not
any
nft
related.
A
Yeah,
I
definitely
need
to
spend
some
time
checking
these
guys
out.
I
like
I've,
heard
of
them
and
I've
heard
of
them
at
a
high
level,
and
I
know
that
there's
a
lot
of
skepticism
around
their
their
business
model
of
the
sort
of
pay
once
store
forever
model
and
again
we've
kind
of
talked
about
this
in
previous
meetings.
I
I'm
curious
about
their
ability
to
restore
data.
A
If
say
of
like
redundancies,
it
really
comes
down
to
redundancies
and
repairability.
I
know
filecoin
has
a
really
good
system
for
that,
or
at
least
the
powergate
that
which
was
developed
by
textile
has
a
really
good
system
for
that,
and
I
need
to
understand
what
that
looks
like
in
the
r
we've
blocked
chain.
C
Yeah
they
there
was
a
previous
week,
something
about
the
what
was
the
name
singularity
or
something
on
twitter.
It's
interesting.
I
think
it's
non-government
organization
but
they're
getting
like
interviews
with,
for
example,
the
the
post-war
like
refugees
stuff
like
this
one
and
they
putting
all
of
these
documents
on.
D
A
D
A
So
there's
there's
like
several
really
big
ideas.
There
there's
the
size
of
the
data,
because
it's
mostly
video
there's
the
permanence
over
time,
which
implies
repairability
and
then
there's
this
sort
of
authenticity
metrics
that
they're,
using
in
terms
of
like
to
prove
that
these
people
really
existed.
It's
not
a
deep
fake
that
the
video
is
created
at
a
specific,
you
know
point
in
time
and
that
you
can
prove
it
and
that
you
can
prove
that
nothing's
been
been
altered
since
that
time.
So
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
really
important
concepts.
A
A
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
the
starling
project,
is
pretty
interesting.
I
actually
tried
to
use
their
software
and
that's
what
got
me
into
using
textile
because
they
have
this
really
slick
command
line
app,
but
the
way
file,
one
of
my
main
gripes
with
the
way
filecoin's
been
rolled
out,
is
that
they
didn't
want
it
to
be
used
maliciously.
A
So
they
have
all
these
gatekeeping.
You
know
things
in
there
like
it's.
It's
really
hard
for
just
some
random
person
to
put
a
random
piece
of
information
on
filecoin
it's
getting
easier,
but
when
they
first
launched
the
mainnet
it
was
like
it
was
like
10
times
more
expensive
for
someone
to
do
that
then
yeah.
Unless
you
were
like
you
found
an
approved
miner
and
you
were
like
an
approved
node
and
there's
all
these
permission,
gatekeeping
hoops.
A
You
have
to
jump
through
to
upload
large
pieces
of
data
to
the
network
which
the
starling
project
had
all
those
boxes
checked,
and
that
was
the
problem
I
ran
into
trying
to
use
their
software
is,
I
didn't
have
any
of
those
permissions,
and
so
it
just
like
stopped
working.
It
just
wouldn't
work,
and
so
that's
why
I've
been
going
through
and
working
with
the
the
textile
guys
because
they
have
a
less
permissionless
and
things
have
gotten
better.
A
The
filecoin
network
has
hit
certain
milestones
where
they're
they're
starting
to
drop,
drop
off
the
the
all
the
permissions
it's
it's
now.
It's
now
like
a
miner
can
just
come
and
start
offering
storage
and
you
don't
have
to
have
any
sort
of
previous
permission
and
some
random
person
can
just
find
a
miner
and
upload
data
to
them.
And
you
know
it's
the
it's
starting
to
actually
work
the
way
it's
supposed
to
work
very.
C
A
In
terms
of
file
coin
is
to
use
a
textile
bucket,
so
textile
dot
io
is
the
company
and
they
have
a
javascript
or
it's
actually
a
command
line
app
and
a
javascript
library
for
working
with
their
buckets,
and
so
it
a
bucket
is
similar
to
like
a
an
s3
bucket
like
an
amazon.com
bucket.
So
you
create
these
buckets
and
then
you
put
data
in
the
bucket
and
then
you
push
the
bucket
to
their
server
and
then
it's
it's
pinned
and
it's
hosted
on
ipfs
and
now
there's
one
extra
command
that
you
can
add.
A
That
then
pushes
the
bucket
to
file
coin,
and
so
I
think
for
for
someone
who
just
like
a
javascript
developer,
who
just
or
even
a
non-developer,
because
you
can
just
use
their
command
line
app.
If
someone
wants
to
just
get
a
random
small
piece
of
data
uploaded
to
filecoin
and
ipfs,
I
think
that's
the
easiest
way
to
do
it.
It's
all
free
right!
Now
they
give
you
like
several
gigabytes,
but.
C
B
A
A
I've
had
such
a
good
experience
with
the
textile
company
and
they
have
a
slack
channel,
and
you
know
you
can
go
there
and
ask
them
questions
and
there's
always
somebody
there
to
to
help
help
help
you
work
through
it.
So
I
I've
definitely
had
my
my
moments
of
stumbling
with
their
software,
but
their
documentation
is
so
good
and
their
and
their
command
line
app
works
flawlessly
and
then
the
few
times
I've
run
into
an
issue.
There's
been
an
actual
human
to
talk
to
so
I
gotta
say
their
their
execution
has
been
excellent.
A
C
No,
I
was
thinking
just
to
go
back
to
the
initial
stuff
about
the
postman.
We
would
be
like
good
to
have
swagger
if
you
know
swagger,
to
keep
like
a
swagger
description
of
the
this
bch
api
that
we're
using.
So
the
people
can
create
clients
in
other
languages
too,
not
only
javascript,
but
if
they
have
this
swagger
description
they
can
create
like,
like
I
don't
know
python
or
go
or
something
else.
A
Yeah,
that's
actually
the
next
thing
on
the
list
is,
you
know
I
saw
what
ava
labs
did
with
their
postman
collection
and
it
was
really
good
execution.
So
that's
just
basically
tried
to
copy
that
and
then
I've
had
mixed
experiences
with
swagger.
I
know
that's
another
one
of
these
like
very
standard
tools.
A
C
Is
it's
a
usual
like
a
web
web
client
for
rest
interfaces,
and
with
this,
like
small
json
file
that
you
creating,
you
can't
see
help
people
to
use
this
web
client,
but
swagger
is
more
general
like
it's
again.
I
I
think
it's
json
based,
but
when
you
describe
some
api,
there's
a
lot
of
libraries
in
different
languages
to
create
from
this
kind
of
json
swagger
description.
C
C
So
I
think
it
will
be
pretty
good
to
have
this
one
for
the
like
already.
This
is
a
very
good
first
step
java
json,
like
file
with
the
api
calls
so
from
it,
should
be
pretty
hard
to
see
obvious
to
create
a
swagger
file
which
will
be
the
next
obstruction
level
so
to
be
used
not
only
through
this
web
postman,
but
you
can
create
clients
in
any
language,
yeah,
pretty
good
yeah.
C
You
want
maybe
daniel
will
be
the
best
to
tell
us.
Is
it
worth
it,
how
to
see?
Is
it
doable?
No,
it's
doable,
but
scotsy.
Is
it
good
one
to
have
this
or
because
we
are
thinking
now
about
the
how
to
see
attracting
production
people
see
people
who
use
these
libraries
in
production?
That's
why
postman
yeah.
D
C
A
A
I
I
think
I
think
that's
the
next
obvious
step,
because
that's
the
ideas
these
these
documents,
like
postmen
and
swagger
they're
they're,
intended
to
make
it
to
lower
the
barrier
of
entry
for
companies
to
to
leverage
fullstack.cash,
but
beyond,
just
fullstack.cash.
They
apply
to
bch
api.
So
anyone
who
wants
to
run
their
own
local
copy
of
bch
api
can
also
leverage
these
postman
docs.
And
you
know
it
would
be
the
same
thing
for
swagger,
so
yeah,
nice
yeah.
It's
a
good
call.
E
C
B
So
the
only
other
thing
I
had
was
yeah.
I
was
talking
this
weekend
to
a
farmer
and
then
a
farm
insurance
agent,
and
we
were
talking
about
the
idea
of
using
nfts
and
tokenizing
crop.
You
know
by
the
bushel
and
then
being
able
to
sell
that
crop
to
a
farm
insurance
agent
at
a
certain
price,
so
it's
kind
of
like
options,
but
without
centralization
essentially,
and
then
that
farm
insurance
agent
is
then
able
to
sell
the
crop
to
large
companies
like
cargill,
adm
and
stuff,
like
that
who
would
normally
be
buying
this
crop.
B
But
you
are
solving
the
insurance
problem
for
the
farmers
themselves
and
then
the
insurance
agency
can
either
make
or
lose
money
depending
on
how
much
the
crop
goes
up
or
down
in
the
future.
So
they
they
were
both
like.
This
is
a
great
idea,
and
you
know
we
could
do
this
and
and
not
have
centralization
of
of
futures.
Essentially
it
it's
like
a
decentralized
future
market.
A
Yeah,
it
is
a
good
idea,
and
I've
heard
a
lot
of
people
talk
about
this
in
the
past,
and
I
think
that
I
mean
this
is
really
the
value
prop
of
of
tokenizing,
not
logistics,
supply
chain.
This
is
a
supply
chain.
You
know
this
is
what
they
talk
about
when
they
talk
about
tokenizing
supply
chains.
This
is
what
they
could
do
and
and
and
the
the
challenges
there
are
are
less
technical
and
more
regulatory.
A
Everything's
new
and
that
you're
talking
about
coordinating
several
large
companies
together,
and
so
that's
a
there's
regulatory
issues
around
there.
It's
not
as
simple
as
like
alice
and
bob
want
to
transact
in
a
co.
You
know
it's
not
that
simple
and
but
the
real
risk.
The
real
financial
threat
that
I
think
these
tokens
really
mitigate
is
is
rehypothecation.
A
D
A
And
so,
and
so
this
rehypothecation
is
rarely
an
issue
because
you
know
somehow
it
just
magically
works
out
somewhere.
You
know
you
see
this
a
lot
with
the
with
the
gold
market
right
now,
the
gold
market
is
heavily
oversold.
It's
it's
a
it's
a
not
so
secret
secret
that
there's
way
more
paper
gold
than
there
is
actual
physical
gold
and.
B
Well,
I
definitely
agree.
I
think,
though,
when
you're
talking
about
coordinating
things
with
cargill
or
adm,
a
large
company,
it
they're
already
coordinating
with
the
farmers
right,
so
how
these
companies
work
is,
and
sometimes
they're
middle
man.
Companies
like
a
company
like
avalon
that
will
own
silos
and
the
farmer
brings
their
crop
to
the
silo.
They
pay
the
farmer
for
the
crop,
and
then
they
sell
the
crop
to
a
processing
plant
right.
B
So
what
we're
talking
about
is
with
tokenization
I'm
the
farmer
I
tokenize,
my
future
yields,
sell
them
to
the
insurance
company,
the
insurance
for
the
money.
Now,
that's
basically
my
crop
insurance.
The
crop
insurance
company
now
takes
that
and
say
the
yield
goes.
The
price
per
bushel
goes
up
two
dollars.
They
made
a
profit,
which
is
what
they're
trying
to
do.
B
A
B
D
A
A
B
Yeah
totally,
I
I
think
it's
a
way
for
the
insurance
com,
because,
right
now
it's
very
ethereal.
You
know
if
your
insurance
company,
you
come
to
me
and
you
say,
I've
got
x
amount
of
acres
of
land.
I
expect
this
much
yield.
Let
me
take
an
insurance
policy
and
I
say:
okay
I'll,
give
you
this
insurance
policy
and
I
really
have
nothing
beyond
the
money
you're
paying
me
right.
I
can't
do
anything
more
with
that.
You
know.
B
B
Now
I
have
the
tokens
for
this
crop
and
I
can
sell
that
and
make
money
off
of
that,
and
so
it's
not
just
oh
I've
already
paid
you
out
like
my
job
as
an
insurance
agent
is
already
done.
You
know
at
that
trans
token
transaction
and
now
I
become
instead
of
the
farmer
dealing
with
the
giant
corporation,
which
is
how
it
is
right.
Now
all
the
individual
farmers
deal
or
the
farmer
collectives
deal
with
the
big
huge
corporation.
B
Now
it's
the
insurance
company
dealing
with
the
big
corporation,
and
so
you
might
be
able
to
get
a
little
leverage
there.
Innocent
you
as
an
insurance
company
is
are
probably
a
lot
larger
than
an
individual
farmer
or
farming
collective,
and
so
you
would
have
another
dynamic
in
the
economy
there
where
they
can
say
all
right.
Yeah
we
have
a
million
tokens
representing
a
million
bushels
of
corn
cargo.
Let's,
let's
make
a
deal
let's:
let's?
How
do
we
do
this?
You
know.
A
D
A
A
A
Totally
well,
that's
the
whole
idea
behind
supply
chain
is,
like
you
know.
If
you
buy
a
diamond,
you
know
if
it
was.
If
it
was
tracked
through
the
supply
chain,
then
you
could
with
absolute
certainty,
like
guarantee
that
this
is
not
a
blood
diamond
that
it
didn't
come
from.
You
know
somewhere
well,.
B
C
B
B
Information
because
you
could
write
a
program
essentially
that
does
this
instead
of
having
one
guy
analyzing
and
going
all
right.
I
got
potatoes
from
idaho
and
I
got
this
and
I
got
you
know
I
got
corn
from
nebraska
and
I
got
wheat
from
kansas.
You
know,
but
then
you
get
more
centralized
you're
like
all
right
lawrence
kansas.
I
got
this
much
wheat
in
lawrence
kansas,
here's,
my
distribution
point.
This
is
how
far
it
is.
This
is
the
price
of
diesel
fuel
for
the
trucks.
This
is
how
much
the
trucks.
B
C
Yeah
and
if
the
distribution
center
centers
every
distribution
center
is
a
wallet
when
you
send
some
real
stuff
to
distribution
center,
you
send
also
the
nft,
so
you
can
track
after
this
which
wallet
it
crossed.
So
you
will
have
also
the
let's
see
the
whole
route
which
this
crap
comes
from.
You
could.
You
could
even.
B
Could
even
have
the
trucks
or
the
trains
themselves
be
a
wallet
so
that
whenever
yeah,
so
that
you
go
from
the
farm
and
then
I've
transported
from
the
farm
to
you
scan
the
tokens
are
transfer
to
the
train.
So
if
I
scan,
I
know
the
token
the
the
product
is
on
the
train
and
then
they're
transferred
to
the
manufacturing
plant
and
then
another
thing
I'm
thinking
about
is.
You
could
also
include
information
on
how
the
crop
is
grown.
What
type
of
crop
is
it?
Is
it
an
heirloom
crop?
Is
it
gmo
free?
B
I
have
I
really
like
to
support
stuff.
That's
grown
near
me.
I
think
that's
a
good
idea,
because
the
money
goes
back
into
our
ecosystem
and
it
makes
us
more
profitable
and
so
being
able
to
go
okay.
This
is
yeah
like
maybe
it
was
distributed
here,
but
it
was
produced
way
over
out
west
or
maybe
it
was
produced
in
china
and
shipped
over
here.
I
don't
necessarily
want
to
buy
that
and
then
I
look
at
it.
I
scan
and
look
oh.
This
was
produced.
B
You
know
just
30
miles
from
here
in
a
farm
and
I'm
like
yeah,
I'm
I'm
up
for
that
and
then
maybe
there's
even
some
more
information
towards
like
that.
Farmer
also
has
farm
eggs
that
you
can
go
to
his
farm
and
get
farm
eggs.
You
know
so
now
it
goes
into
that
farmer's
collective
thing,
we're
talking
about
where
now
you
get
into,
because
the
product
has
more
information.
A
Dig
into
like
where'd
this
product
come
from
who
touched
it
like
where
it
all
you
know
like
like
you
could
you
could
have
a
way
to
assemble
all
this
data?
You
know
naturally,
and
then
give
and
then
not
force
it
on
the
consumer,
but
allow
a
consumer
to
sort
of
follow.
The
breadcrumb
trail.
Yeah
pay
to
write
database
could
be
a
good.
A
A
You
know-
we've
talked
about
the
trust
agent,
where
only
the
person
creating
the
token
has
the
private
key
to
update
the
mutable
data,
but
but
other
people
like
say
in
the
supply
chain
like
like
scanning
a
qr
code
on
a
crate
somewhere
that
could
send
data
to
it
would
just
generate
a
transaction
which
could
pay
attach
data
to
information
about
the
total.
You
don't
necessarily
need
that
person's
permission
to
add
data.
It's
just
like
you're,
clearly
defining
official
information
and
then
like
supplementary
information
that
anybody
can
add.