Permissionless Software Foundation Technical Steering Committee, 23 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: PSF TSC - 11-23-22

Description

Technical Steering Committee meeting for 11-23-2022 for the Permissionless Software Foundation.

A

Onto the compute there.

B

We go okay, welcome everybody to the permissionless software Foundation technical steering committee meeting today is November 23rd 2022.. uh We are not live broadcasting this on YouTube, because Zoom crashes. Every time we try so we're recording this locally and I'll upload it later.

B

um Let's real quickly do uh some intro! uh Why don't you start start us off Erin Sunman.

C

Hello Aaron sudman here um Go by Cool, cleaner on my screen, um big fan of the permissions, the idea of permissionless innovation anyway, and allowing for individuals who um who want to develop but don't have a large company behind them.

C

um So the permissionless software Foundation brings together People Like Us, who care about this and and Chris, and quite a few others behind you, including stoyan and Aaron, have built software to make it easy and so I'm glad to be a part of this, because I want to help make that happen and help the Future come together with a better permissionless software for everyone.

B

Nice intro yeah uh stoyan go ahead and introduce yourself.

D

My name is stoyan Jacob and I'm, helping with maintaining nuns of the sum of the JavaScript code of the foundation. Thank you.

B

And you're going to give us a demo today on the extension yay. Yes, hopefully all right! Well, let me, um let's see I'm going to turn on screen.

A

Sharing so you can share later, I will uh share my screen and we'll get into the agenda here.

B

Okay, so this is today's agenda, as always, it's filed on GitHub under the permissionless software Foundation GitHub group in a repository called TSC for technical steering committee meeting and uh we file them as GitHub issues and we date them. So today is today's date, and the scope of these meetings uh cover the the major aspects of the software that we maintain. The cash stack, the pay to write database, the different dexes and uh and then our different gov, our governance documents.

B

uh So let me give an update on the decks. uh I'm really excited to wrap this up. This is uh when you do a one-year contract a Year's a long time, uh but the the e-cash decks is the last uh part of the contract to fulfill and it is live.

B

uh It's it's sort of barely functional, uh so I'll be polishing that over the next month, um uh I guess I should point out the the the decks.fullstack.cash has a new landing page, um so it's a little prettier, so there's a clear buttons to the Dex documentation and then the different implementations of the decks on bitcoin cash, ecash and Avalanche, and um so this is what the decks on the e-cash Chain looks.

B

Like I, currently don't have any nfts loaded, uh but I do have some bucks tokens listed uh I noticed there's kind of an issue with the price, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna fix that. So, if you guys don't know, bucks is a sort of a stable coin. I don't know if it can be called a stable coin, um uh but it's a token on the ecash Chain, that's put out by by VIN Armani's uh company bucks.digital, and uh it's it's an interesting idea in that.

B

He believes that this is regulatorily exempt, because what you do is you buy I, think you have you buy a hundred dollars at a time and you can buy them with PayPal or you can buy them with ecash um and uh what you're actually buying is not the tokens but a uh like a a digital receipt that you then put in to to Mint the tokens and so because they're not uh selling you the tokens directly. That's apparently what makes it regulatorily exempt is they're.

B

Just sending you they're you're buying a receipt or or some piece of information that you then then you then meant the tokens by giving it to the to the contract. On chain and then uh to reverse the process, they will buy the tokens back from you at a dollar per token. uh If you want to cash out and so interesting idea, um uh you know it's, it's never really.

B

uh It's conjecture until it's tested in a court of law right so hopefully that'll never happen, um but uh I guess he's had uh incredible success in Saipan uh with local Merchants uh using using this, and so I definitely want to support what they're doing and it's the closest thing to a stable coin on the ecash chain. Right now, so that's pretty cool, so yeah getting pretty close to to having the decks on the ecash Chain fully functional, and that's where we're at with that.

C

Wow I hadn't heard that concept before that sounds like coming up with new ways of dealing with this and new ideas. I mean Vin's great at that stuff anyway, but uh that's exciting to see this yeah.

B

E

Maybe the the idea is pretty hutsy standard because from what I read when some tokens reach your wallet, you need to pay taxes so most of the people. They just don't send it to you or it they will put it like for staking or for minting somewhere. So you don't have anything in your wallet, so you don't need to pay taxes. In fact,.

B

E

Need them, of course, but well.

B

You know you so yeah, let's, let's take a minute talk about this, because the whole thing is absurd, because uh I mean and everything he said- is totally correct and and from what I have learned by listening to Vin talk, and also there is um the uh the the guidance the um fomc is that who does the one of one of those lettered agencies um uh I was reading through their? They really do place, an emphasis on like who broadcasts the transaction. That seems to be like where the liability lies and so um yeah.

B

If, if the company is broadcasting the transaction to send you stable coins, then they are a money transmitter and so the fact that that the that you're giving them just a piece of information and then they're taking it and minting it. That means that they're, the ones generating the transaction, not not you, so it does seem to do a an end run around around, but I mean the other.

B

The reason why that whole argument is absurd is like the um the notion of tokens transferring or like being in your wallet like it is an illusion like nothing's, actually moving. All we have are private Keys, like nothing's, physically moving so everything's an abstraction, so the whole concept to begin with is absurd and then you're doing an end run around this absurd thing, which itself is absurd. So it's just I, don't none of it makes sense to me, but.

E

Yeah but since they they charging now so like people trying to avoid this in different ways like, for example, they will send you nft the airdrop nft, which will represent some uh like uh amount of money. So in your token, you have a zero cost nft. So you don't pay taxes, but in fact it's like you mentioned represents some obstruction or some token, which is somewhere yeah.

B

And it's abstractions on top of abstractions.

E

B

Yeah, like nothing, it's it's like it's like I, know, Clay. If you travel with more than ten thousand dollars into a country, it's like well you're, not actually traveling, with anything you're you're traveling, with with a private key in your head. um You know you, the money doesn't exist, it's not actually moving. It hasn't moved from one country to another, uh so yeah yeah.

E

Is these bugs different from there like uh what was nuan token, the one that this Laguna is doing? Yeah.

B

It's it's very so boxes like Vin's own thing and then new on is on the lugana yeah. However, you pronounce it blockchain and that's that's Stefan rust, uh uh so Vin's been helping with lugana or Lugano I can't uh uh anyways he's been helping with their wallet, but but that's totally separate Nuance like uh there's a flat coin, and uh so yeah they're they're completely separate projects with nothing to do with one another. Okay,.

D

B

Interesting um yeah, so that's where we're at with the decks um pretty happy to be wrapping that up, because uh once I sort of you know can can move on from that. I I want to focus on our our minting, Council and uh and and uh in the multi-signature stuff and uh and possibly building a bridge uh for the psf token, between ecash and bch.

B

um So yeah, that's, that's what I really want to start turning my attention to, and also the pay to write database. um That really needs a lot of Polish and it's it's. Turning into this like core piece of tech that you know all the dexes use it um this. This uh pinning uh service that that I built on top of it uh Launchpad is, is starting to use that quite heavily, um and then other people have have been just generally interested in using that pinning service.

B

So that seems to be a like that something I need to really focus on next year.

B

C

Go ahead, yeah, that's great I mean I, appreciate the like understanding like where you've been plus what you're look looking at working on it sounds like this is the right direction to to. You know, make more useful, like I, think one of the things you mentioned in your um I, don't know if anybody's watching this later had seen anything on the Bitcoin cash conference that uh Chris attended.

C

But one of the points he made was making it easier for people who um are hobbyist developers, the ones that don't have a big company behind them to make it possible for them to build without having to start from scratch and everything, and and that's what the psf really does and I think that the tech that uh Chris is working on next will uh definitely make that easier and better and make it more robust as well. Thanks.

B

Aaron yeah um yeah I'll give a little um in the round table. I'll talk about the the bch conference. I just got back from uh so just uh update on General Tech. uh Our telegram chat bot it now, if, like reminds people like hey check the pinned message uh when it before it deletes their message. So I I felt like that was like a big missing part of the UI in in the like people. Just didn't understand why they couldn't talk in the channel. So uh so far, so good I haven't really had uh anybody.

B

Just sort of gets stuck and be like I, don't understand, what's happening like everybody kind of either figures it out or or if they're a spam, a spammer, they just kind of leave, uh which is exactly what we want to have happen.

B

So pretty happy with where the, where the telegram Bots at looking forward to um once I wrap up the decks, we'll launch a governance token and we'll we'll Fork the bot and have it in the VIP room as well.

C

B

But the the big thing here is the browser extension, uh so stoyan I'm gonna, stop sharing. Why don't you go ahead and give us a give us a a brain dump on on your work with the extension, because it's been pretty awesome.

B

E

I was before with the wrong impression that extensions are in some like XML type of language, this XL, but since this was the pretty old concept and the current extensions are pretty much like a JavaScript, so it's very easy to create an extension.

E

uh There is like just uh several like three or about three or four files like mandatory files. If you have them, you can have pretty much every like react. Application become very easy, like a extension, so yeah and one of the easiest way like the the first mandatory file, like maybe the even the only one is this manifest.json, which is like a Json file with uh like description of your extension and it have several stuff inside.

E

But uh this is maybe the the most important one browsing action, which is when you press the button, what you will pop up there and you can create just a very simple like HTML page and every time when you press this button, it will pop up this. Like uh simple HTML page, you can have many Stuffies site before I was just you can just put here. Some Warrior, like before I, was just putting here the the psf.f full stack, the cash in it pop up the wallet which.

A

E

Yeah very easy: this was in fact the original. Like uh Sam's code, there was just here the the HTML HTTP dot.

B

A

E

And you can have this here, but it's not so exciting, so I decided to make it a little better, like maybe so. I start experimenting with uh like uh first one was just to uh when you make uh like uh this uh react build it will build for you like uh static uh sources. So if you copy them in the extension directory, you can pop up this static. uh Like uh single page application, you don't need to access the warrior itself. Yeah.

B

So, rather than wrapping like an external site, it's it's! It's just display. It's loading, it locally, yeah.

E

And to do this, uh you can do this manually, but I just created the in the scripts directory 1 bash script, which is doing exactly this one. It's uh it's first, creating one temporary directory, so you can start fresh! And after this you just copy uh like uh it's running your build and copying everything from the build directory inside plus some like uh special files, which I will talk about later, and you have the extension so how to use it.

E

When you have this directory ready uh inside your extensions directory like here, manage extensions when you switch to developer mode, you can do some fancy stuff, and one of them is that you don't need to to have like these extensions package. It like a special file. You can just directly go from some local directory, it's pretty much for development, so you just point it to this this directory and you have the extension ready. Oh.

D

E

And yeah it will pop up here in your extend here is the.

A

E

The browser running, which is good, there's still a lot of stuff to be done here because in fact it's creating always the new wallet, because uh this is not exactly the same URL, but it's you can immediately like what I've done. I just got here to the settings and I import. My like wallet here and I have the same wallet like a page and, like extension, so this is one workaround, but it can be improved. Of course,.

B

Yeah I noticed it with uh with the the web 3 wallet that that I created there that you that you turn into an extension uh yeah every time you open the extension it it goes it it reloads like the library and checks all your balances, and so like.

E

Every single time it's a completely different seems the the code is uh usually here. You have some like uh Warrior layer, HTTP, something, but now it's like uh Chrome extension. It's completely different key in this uh browser, like local storage. Oh interesting.

A

E

This is I think even when you create a new version It's again, this will change and you'll get again new wallet. Oh.

C

D

C

E

Not very convenient but yeah. It's first steps right.

D

E

So yeah yeah, and so it's.

B

Great, it's great that it renders so cleanly.

C

Yeah, oh, it does without any.

B

Modification, it.

E

Looks great- and this is uh pretty exciting, but as they mentioned this just the first step, it's easy, but it's not very exciting, because the thing that you want to do is to have some uh like uh button. In fact,.

C

uh Yeah, like connect to the metamask idea, yeah local yeah, because I mean this is exactly what I was looking for as I'm looking at own rare. How do I make it so it's because I don't really want to hold on to people's stuff. I'd, really rather have a single button that transfers to their own wall that trusted works. That looks good. That works every time. That's right. On their computer I mean it's got to work. Something super simple like that that people.

B

Yeah the bit the big use cases that I can see for this, which is where the big use cases when we had the badger wallet extension a few years ago, is a single sign-on. So using your wallet to sign in right as a rather than usernames right.

A

B

Then and like buy now buttons yeah, so you can display an inventory and a person can just click buy now and then and then it talks to their browser extension. So you don't have to have the wallet built into your app yeah.

E

You want this button to work when you press it, it will pay, so you know other in order to do this thing. You need some additional like magic in this uh extension creation and we can go back to the original sources. So this one was the browser action, but the more interesting this content scripting background. What this thing is doing, like so there's very special scripts, this content.js a background.js.

E

These are like, uh like the the whole uh Magic which is driving this extension. So this content- yes, it's embedded in every page, you open. When you have this application installed everything you do here. It will be embedded in every page. You visit so.

D

E

To some page the thing that you're doing there will be embedded here and what we can do here is, for example, we can add this to the Dom, so.

B

E

This simple code, we'll just add to this to the Dom and we can check, do we have the extension installed and no, as metamask is doing this. If you see the JavaScript sources.

B

E

B

The secret sauce right there yeah.

E

In every page uh it will embed this. So if the extension is is installed from your react application you can check. Do you have the extension it's total or no and yeah. So this one is going inside this white area. Every page you visit, content, GS will be inside and this the other one background GS, which is even more interesting. It's like you can uh you can do something with the browser itself, not with the content of the pages, but you can do something in this area.

E

Above so you can uh like open, Windows new window browser window do stuff, like browser can do, and in order to connect these two stuff, you need to create something like a channel. This was also very it's not so, but in your content stuff, you connect to something named port.

D

E

The same the same code, you have it also in this uh background GS, so they can talk to each other. So when you do something in the content, it can send the signal to the to the browser and to do this inside this content JS, you just need to add some listener.

E

So what this do is uh when the the content page receives a message, it can send the data from this message through the port I mentioned to the the other one, and it can do something in our case, it will open the the browser, the extension window.

B

Okay, so this is this is so is this like if you do something on the page, it's communicating to the extension or when you do something. On extension, it's communicating back to the page that an event happened is.

E

That what it's doing the only thing that you need this: uh how to see the message mechanism, it's like a standard uh Chrome, uh like uh philosophy, so everything in the Dom is driven by these events, the bottom pressing, the buttons everything events, oh okay, so so inside your uh like uh your market, for example, the only thing that you need to do is this: you don't care about extension, whatever you just create a message event, which is a standard like uh Chrome window, stuff, okay, and you just send this, uh whatever data you want and when you dispatch this event.

E

This is the sending the signal, the content code, this one because it have this listener. It will get this event and it will post the data to the browser itself to this script, and this script will open the window, the extension window with some parameters. Oh.

B

Okay, so this is like the the connect to wallet like with metamask there's the button that you click connect to wallet, and then it opens your metamask browser extension. Yes,.

E

So if we do this like for this case, in my case, I just created this uh pay button and the event that I'm creating uh this will help see reduce. It will open only my extension, because if I have several extensions, it will open all of them. Maybe so.

A

E

Reduce this and you can put some type, it can be like payment or it can be signed, for example, if you just want to sign- and you can have another parameters in my case, I will just put the amount that I want to pay in the receiver, and so I also uh created a simple page which will uh accept this parameters. So I will send amount in the two like a part of the URL, and it will fill the form for me.

E

So this is what I'm doing here: I'm creating this message event and I dispatch it.

E

So the contents get this event posted via the the port to the background, which is the this other guy, and what he's doing is just creating windows, uh the the new window with this URL like send page with these parameters, and if we try this boom, let's see if we have it. No, because I didn't reload after the extension I installed press the button. The page is open. I have here the the address. The amount and I just can press send. That's awesome, wow.

C

E

I know again yeah again, it's still not ready because, as you can see, it's a regular window right. It's not like this extension yeah yeah this model window, but since there's some problems with the Chrome itself, they didn't allow to create like uh static like this one, so the people now they found some way around, like you emulate the the button and when you uh so this will here in the background, you will not create Windows here, but you will just emulate The, Click or.

A

E

It will open the model window, but I'm still working on this one so be patient. Oh.

B

Man, this is amazing. This is amazing. Work like you've really connected all the dots like everything everything's here. If anybody wants to build a browser extension and a buy now button, then like a single sign-on right, everything's here, I.

C

Think this single sign-on bit that's but the buy now the other one is being able to assign something. I mean those that's all. It really needed to be able to do, and, of course, remember your wallet yeah.

E

Yeah, and also one more good stuff is, if you install this uh like a package WebEx station polyfield, since it will help this uh extension folks, you just need. You just need a different, uh manifest uh uh file since there's some small differences, but it how to see if you include this polyfill before your like content and background. Yes, you don't need to care for anything inside this scripts. There will be the same for uh Chrome, for brave or or for uh like uh Firefox, so.

D

E

Only stuff is you just need the different manifest, but it's just a Json file. It's so easy to create like five minutes, there's Just, some name, differences between the Firefox and something and uh a chrome. When you do this, it will take care for all of the differences in the this content. Gsn background GS, so yeah, another nice piece that I found this extension.

A

Very cool, very.

E

Cool and yeah this is in general, now the current state status on the browser.

B

Nice, nice good job student, yeah.

C

That's that's really cool to see you've done an amazing job already just showing that.

E

Yep, if you have questions or you know, comments.

B

Yeah, it all makes sense to me, I mean what I noticed with the the the web wallet that I created when I loaded it in the browser is that it needs I need to be more Progressive.

B

You know Progressive web app, I need to be more like I need to be able to detect, like oh, it's already loaded the library and it's already checked the balance like I. Don't need to do that again, because every time the extension is opened, it tries to redo all that and I've noticed that too, when I packaged it as an Android app.

B

It does the same thing um because in a web browser you know, you just load it once, and so it's trying to do all that initialization, but it's different in the extension and in an Android app like it's, it's already been initialized, so it doesn't need to do that again unless there's a good reason for it. So I need to just be able to detect that that's an adjustment I need to make in my react, app.

E

It's something with keeping the state. It should be kept like some I, don't know I'm using this now pull state, but since also it it's like a URL related. So it needs to be some more like Global way to keep this state.

E

So when you open it in browser or in extension, it will access the same like state yeah,.

B

Yeah exactly well I think so in in the case of of the the web wallet. uh What it's the first thing it looks for is it has the has the minimal SLP Library been loaded and so I think I can detect that like. If that's, if that exists, then I might have already initialized so I might be able to like check local storage or something like that yeah. There must be some good way to do that.

E

Yeah, so there's still a lot to be done, but yeah it's nice step forwards, I think I.

B

E

I tried to look on different, like extensions wallet like one was this cash tab, that uh ecash is using also the Kepler, the the cosmos. One is great wallet. It's this guy, it's open source, it's like uh multi-chain everything needed so I need to take more look on their sources, cool yeah.

E

This is all I. Think from me. Thank.

C

B

Yeah, thank you. Man.

A

Yeah, if you want to stop sharing I'll uh pick up the agenda.

B

um Man, yeah great demo, great demo, like I'm glad we got that recorded because that's it like we got it all there, um okay! Well, let me finish going through the rest of this list and then I'll give you guys an uh sort of a uh talk about the the Bitcoin cash 22 conference. I just got back from um so there's a few other Tech updates, uh minimal, SLP wallet, minimal, ecash wallet they now um they have.

B

This uh get transaction call that lets you get like the transaction history for an address and before that was not sorting the not sorting them so now it comes back in by default in descending order, or you can override that into ascending order, but descending orders within the newest, the newest transaction on top and the reason uh sorting is important- is uh when you're looking at the mutable data for a token uh you're going to want to look at the you're going to want to stop start with the most recent transactions.

B

So you don't have to go all the way through the transaction history, so this is just about making that more efficient um and, let's see oh, the psf SLP indexer, there were like three little sort of well, one was kind of a major issue and then a couple minor issues um one was uh there was a bug where so every thousand blocks it takes. It takes a backup and- um and in that way, if it panics it can roll back to to a known good State. What was happening is on that thousandth block.

B

If there was no SLP transactions in the block, it would like it wouldn't take a backup and uh so I fixed that bug, because that that was causing like a more like a Cascade of bugs that one bug was caught in Cascade of bugs. In that like it, would you know something would happen, it would panic and it couldn't find the right back up and then and then you know maybe, and then it would get.

B

It would look for another backup and it would it would just get confused and it would panic and it would like give up and start rethinking from Genesis, which is like, like you know, worst case scenario, and uh so since I fixed that uh it's been much more stable and then a couple other uh issues where there were there were some of the calls to the RPC Port of the full node. So the indexer talks to the full node to crawl the blockchain and track all the token transactions.

B

So some of those would time out and it would it would crash and that wasn't such a big big deal, because as long as it's being operated by Docker Docker would just start it back up again and then uh this last bug was something that um just had been bothering me. But it hadn't been important enough to really deal with in that now. The indexer accurately reports the block height of where it's at so uh and in our last meeting I reported that uh minimal SLP.

B

While it's now using this, where, if uh when it goes to get the token utxos, it asks the indexer like hey. What's your? What's your sync status and if, if you're not fully synced, then any utxos, that kind of look like they might be token utxos, but but I can't tell because because the indexer is not fully synced, it like sets those aside, so it doesn't spend them by accident and and or and accidentally burn the tokens. So that's a that's a big part. There.

B

um Oh and I added this get started uh quick code example, let's see yeah so on PW p2wdb.com for the pay to write database. uh I added this get started section, and it's got uh these just how to this is intense. So this is sort of a trend, especially with like the react type um stuff where they have. This get started Pages where it's like I I want to skip the documentation. I just want to get the coding as fast as possible. Right and so that's.

B

The idea here is like this is like the minimum amount of code. You need to to retrieve a page of uh results from the pay to write database, um and so each of these little sections has a code. Sandbox example that you can load. In fact, Let me show what that looks like.

B

These code, sandboxes, are really cool, they load a node.js instance within the web browser and- and they have a they have this for react, and they have this for node. They have this for a bunch of other things as well.

B

And uh yes, you can see it's slow, it's loading, the the virtual machine and it's running through the script, and then this is actually an uh a web page within the web page. um So what it's doing is it's. This is a node.js script. It's uh it's loading, the pay to write database Library, it's getting a page of results.

B

um It's writing um those results to the console which you can see here, but then it also starts up a web server uh within the web. Browser and then writes, writes the data also to the web page. So this is actually a web a web page. So this is you. This is this HTTP part is if you were using node.js as a web server and uh and they they kind of I- normally wouldn't do this, but they they. This is by default.

B

They put this in here, so I just kind of wanted to leverage what they had but uh yeah. So it's it's just a nice like you know one click and it loads it, and then someone can get in there and start tweaking with the code right away and and just it's very interactive, very low friction.

B

So I've got code examples in here for how to get a page of results filtered by the app ID um how to get a single entry given its CID, how to get a single entry given its transaction ID that paid for the right um and then examples on how to actually write to the database and uh and each each section has its own code sandbox and then the minor tweak here you just gotta change the server uh in order to write to the ecash chain.

B

So hopefully that'll get people more um and just lower the barrier of Entry to getting started with the pay to write database and start integrating into their apps. I'm I still need to create, like better videos on how to set up and better documentation on how to configure the pay to write database, because one of the one of the next big pieces of documentation, I need to add for the pay rate database is in the setup.

B

You you tell it like how to talk to the blockchain, what what service to use when you're talking to the blockchain and like by default. It uses free bch.fullstack.cash, but you can configure that to talk to any server that you want like web 2 or web3. So I just I need to add. That's the next big piece of documentation. That's missing that I need to add and then and then add better videos for that.

E

Chris is there a documentation for the pinning using this pay to write database.

B

um Man, that's a great question. I should add those in here they they're on uh not in the documentation. I need to add that, but it is in the readme.

B

A

Let's see if you scroll down in the readme.

B

Yeah then there's a section on pinning how to pin a CID and how to pin Json data. So there's code examples here, but yeah, that's that's a great question. Stoyan I need to add that to that readme or to the to the documentation, I was just showing.

B

uh So yeah so looking forward to getting back to spending a little more time on the pay to write database once I get the dexes behind me all right. Well, let me tell you guys a little bit about the uh Bitcoin cash 22 conference, um so it was in Saint Kitts. So let me just show you guys where that's at.

A

um Let's see what kind of get rid of that yeah.

B

Okay, so here's the US Mexico South America Florida, so there there's this chain of islands that go all the way from Florida down to South, America and uh yeah.

A

B

In your summer, yeah so Saint, Kitts and Nevis are right here and there's there's only like one major town on Saint Kitts, best Terror, and uh so this is where the conference was and so Saint Kitts Nevis.

B

um Saint Martin, which is right here and Antigua, which is right here. uh They all have a lot of Bitcoin cash adoption. um You know it's Ro Roger had a hand in some of it, but it's it's grown far beyond him. uh There's just a lot of Grassroots adoption and uh and there's just signs everywhere. uh You know and Bitcoin cash accepted here, stickers everywhere, I would say, probably like one in three Merchants uh on Saint Kitts accept it uh there.

B

There were plenty and yeah I'd go in like we'd go in and we'd be like. Oh yeah, maybe that's that's what the town looks like so the these cruise ships they pull. They pull up right there and uh and then all the the this Army of tourists get out and they just kind of walk around town there and uh and it they, this guy's Sunny who hosted the conference he's got. He owns like several of the liquor stores on on Saint, Kitts and I. Think on several of these islands.

B

So you can, you can go, buy liquor with Bitcoin cash and he's got ATMs there. Where you can, um you can convert like if you have Bitcoin cash, you can get US dollars out or if you have US Dollars, you can buy Bitcoin cash with it. They don't charge a fee and uh these at least it's in Saint Kitts. There's, there's no concept of like a money transmitter service like like we have in the U.S. So like there's! No, you can just do this like there's. You don't have to have a special legal setting.

B

You don't have to check with anyone. You can just do it these. What blew me away about this island is that the roads are Immaculate. You can eat off and uh not that I'd recommend that but uh they're incredibly clean and uh the internet is super high speed, free Wi-Fi everywhere the sell signal works perfectly and they they don't have any taxes. There's no income tax, they I'm pretty sure they charge a sales tax and they charge a really heavy import tax.

B

If you like, import a car or vehicle or some or some, you know big Electronics to the island, they tax you pretty heavily on that, but nobody files a tax form at the end of the year. They just tax you sort of like on consumptive items as you consume them. There's no real estate tax, there's no capital gains tax uh and then they a big focus of this conference, was citizenship by investment.

B

um So uh it's amazingly, affordable, I. Think it's like I think the lowest tier is like 150 000 and like a good chunk of that's going to the government, but I think it's like for 250 000 like if you buy a piece of property for 250 000 like 50 000 of that goes to the government. But the the rest of it is you know is: is your piece of property that you bought and, uh and you don't even have to live there?

B

You can rent it out and you get a passport, and um this one guy I was uh talking to owned the hotel. He had a wife in the you, wife and kid in the U.S and uh and he owns the hotel there in Saint Kitts, so he had both a U.S passport and a Saint Kitts passport.

B

So even in the even in the like the thick of the lockdowns, he was able to travel back and forth because both countries had you know they have to let you in um if you're, if you're a citizen of that country and uh and I, heard a lot of stories about that about another guy I talked to. He has a Canadian passport, a Mexican passport and a Saint Kitts passport, and so that came in really handy when he was needed to travel around for business during during the lockdowns.

C

B

C

Seems like covid has highlighted why Beyond just the idea of the sovereign individual having, but you know that countries are locking you down and so I think that's a clearer now why yeah.

B

Yeah so Saint Kitts announced it at the conference that they will be making Bitcoin cash legal tender in March um I mean so something could happen between now and then. uh But but that's the plan. uh I mean the the wheels are in motion and the idea there is like the the so unlike El Salvador. The merchants are not required to accept it, and this this whole legal tender thing doesn't really matter to the the people themselves.

B

um What it matters is for the citizenship, by investment being able to buy real estate being able to build by large objects like cars, um and it's it's it's all for just legal and tax purposes. Really, um because right now, it's it's awkward to buy real estate with Bitcoin cash, because it's like you're trying to buy real estate with apples or something uh it's just yeah. It's just it's just like odd.

B

um So it gets through a lot of that stuff and- and it helps the local government, because they've had a huge uptick in applications from Americans, Canadians and Australians, who want to get out of these countries and live someplace more free uh like this place, which is extremely free, so they've had a huge uptick in applications but um part of their due diligence.

B

They do like criminal background checks and they uh do like Financial background checks, and then you know and then there's a significant amount of money like 150 to 250 000 being transferred and what they found is like the while they. Why they're why they are sit simultaneously, getting an increase in applications.

B

The working with these foreign Banks to do this due diligence has gotten slower, they've, gotten, even slower than they used to be, and so uh if they can circumvent the banks by making the Bitcoin cash legal tender, they can still do the due diligence like with the criminal background, checks and stuff. They just don't have to rely on the banks as much, and so it just it just makes this process smoother for for them and so I think.

B

That's the big motivation for the government to make it legal tender, and so this is I just find that like really fascinating um yeah, it's just it's just a tiny country and they have their own little niche and they're they're. They also they have their own local currents, the currency, the the bahamanian dollar or whatever, oh I,.

C

Didn't even know that.

B

Yeah and it's just getting raped by the dollar, the dollar strength. It's like a three to one like a few months ago. It was like two to one and now it's three to one, and uh so their local currency is losing a lot of value.

B

Because of you know just what the shenanigans that the U.S feds doing around uh the FED interest rates and the and the dollar strength, and so uh just like El Salvador, you know so they were they obviously that they're a heavy tourist country they looked at what El Salvador did El Salvador did all these things for the same reason and that uh they don't have their own local currency um dollars are becoming less functional in that country and so by switching to bitcoin, El Salvador was able to like opt out of that whole circus with the dollar and um and also El Salvador, had like a huge increase in in tourism once they accepted Bitcoin, so I I'm sure that that's also the goal for these countries is to try and you know, they're hoping that by by making it legal tender, it'll it'll increase tourism even more right.

B

C

B

C

Cool to see that happening there I mean it does make sense to do a a cache rather than a custodial type thing like um like like Bitcoin, um because I I mean I, think it's just really a fantastic move for them, and hopefully they do get more and I think they will get more tourism because of it.

B

Yeah I mean they really are looking at it at it as cash. That was like the theme like everybody everybody kept talking about that, but it's just cash. So like you just you treat it like cash. You tax it like cash, you for accounting purposes. It's just cash! It's not it's, not an asset! There's no capital gain like there's. No capital gains anyways.

B

So that's not even something to worry about, but yeah they're, just looking at it as a as a it's, the same thing as like when El Salvador, um you know, gave up on their own local currency and adopted the dollar as legal tender. It's the same idea. It's just like adopting another country's currency is legal tender. I mean it's and they're just looking at it as cash. So.

C

There's an interesting thing that I didn't you know, you know, if you don't do a lot of Bank transfers, it doesn't seem to come up, but I have friend of mine who worked in treasury at the company. I worked at for a long time that was doing International transfers and you would think that these things would just work yeah, you don't just work, I mean and that's between the same company right, the same company owned owned by the same people.

C

They money would get lost between them and all you had is the string of characters that was originally defined when you've created this thing, and so you'd have to track down all these transactions, and it was a horrible experience, so I can imagine if they could just get rid of that. They don't have 5500 people sitting there doing this right, so so I can see why they're doing it and it makes sense for them anyway. So anyway you got, it's got, picks yeah.

B

Just snapped a few bad photos, I just uploaded everything from my phone up here: um yeah, that's them announcing that they're gonna make it legal tender uh yeah, just some of the MP Bryson. So MP is a member of parliament. um That's he's from Saint Martin, not from Saint Kitts, but that guy, oh my God. What an inspiring politician like he's really gone through uh a journey of Education.

B

um He he actually has got he. He goes to crypto conferences and and has tried us to learn more and he's very focused on. You know the all the things I just talked about about uh the dollar hegemony kind of crushing small countries like his increasing tourism um and- uh and so he he's just very inspiring this is this- was uh there was a lot of parties, the guy Sonny who put it on? He just did such a great job, he hired buses and there were dinners and buffets.

B

He took us out fishing one night, so yeah this is. This is like one of the the uh so every everything's like um there's. No like big companies. There's no like there's! No, like um you know, Yellow Cab! That does all the taxis. You know like everybody's, it's just a free-for-all, so you never know what you're gonna get when you, you might get a car. You might get a van.

B

You might get an open-air thing, that's like playing music, uh uh you know, and uh uh Sunny did a bunch of uh Bitcoin cash, a bunch of champagne bottles with Bitcoin cash, so they were doing a like a champagne waterfall here wow. This was some of the place where I rented a moped and drove around the island. This was the Marriott I. Just took a lot of pictures. I love, I, love, the the floor and the fauna. Every time I see some story.

C

B

Yeah the way they the way they do the pawn the the different.

A

Things, let's see different receipts, yeah.

B

Okay, so this is what I wanted to show it's like, so this is frigate Bay. So that's a lot of a lot of those houses. Those are those are in citizenship by investment uh like Villas, they buy, they buy the villa and then a lot of people don't even stay in them. They just rent them out.

E

Resource is the normal way to travel to this island, like you go, maybe with your boat, but what usual people how they will go there first to U.S or to.

B

Yeah most people fly into Florida and then into Miami, and then they fly from there in the same kit. So it's like so for me it was a six hour flight or seven hour flight from Washington State on the west coast of the U.S to the east coast of Florida. And then it's like a two and a half hour flight from from Miami to uh Saint Kitts.

D

B

So you can see it's it's it's pretty pastoral there's! A lot of this is undeveloped. This is looking South at St, Kitts and uh they're I. Think I was trying to capture there. There's the trade winds are going on right now, so one side of the Island's really rough with the water and one side's really calm. So if you're in a sailboat you anchor on on one side of the island, it actually has a rain forest, a lot of these islands.

B

They they have like you know it's just a mountain basically coming out of the ocean, and so there will be clouds sitting on that mountain and there were monkeys. I saw a monkey run across oh yeah. There's a picture of some boats anchored out there on the calm side, beautiful.

C

B

Know I'm a sailor, so I was definitely looking at the marinas and looking at it from like the Sailor perspective.

B

Yeah there are these fruit stands all all along the way, all along the road, and uh so you get fresh bananas and fresh coconut and fresh watermelon and like potatoes, I, don't even know what these things over here on the left are.

E

How they, uh how to see, are they like a closed uh economy? I mean all of this. Food is just like local or they import something from outside yeah.

B

So, there's a huge um income inequality from what I saw in in that like the locals, uh the unskilled labor is like three to four dollars an hour and, uh and so the the locals are are like really poor, especially once you get outside the town and- and you know this is this- is a country where a hurricane comes and like wipes it out every year, and you can see there's just like all sorts of mini mansions with like nothing but walls, the roof.

B

The roof's been torn off and and uh everything's been blown away, except for the walls or the foundation, and so all the locals. They they build with cinder block and Sheet Metal. um You know, there's the only two things that will withstand a hurricane, and uh so it's it's very poor, and this is this- is why they're so dependent on tourism.

B

I mean tourism is like a huge, a huge Boon for them, and this is why they they want to bring more Bitcoin cash businesses and more jobs uh into the local economy, to to try and push up uh the the income for for the lower income people, um but uh yeah it's. So it's a big discrepancy between these. These International millionaires that are, you, know, buying these Villas just to get the the passport versus the the locals that are working for G dirt cheap. But one thing I did notice, that's sort of unique.

B

There is because the hurricane comes and blows, and all these expensive houses away every year, everything's in like a constant state of repair. So all the locals are have lots of employment. Just just repairing all the stuff from the last hurricane I definitely saw that the hotel. It was just like constantly like okay, another coat of paint like let's Okay, this thing's damaged. Let's fix that, and uh so it takes a lot of work to keep the nice things. Looking nice nice there.

B

This is a this. Was a marine uh like a haul out to fix boats, the only one I saw on the island, so there's there's two of the CR, so that's the the main Town Boston Terrier and like the two big cruise ships that pulled in there, so they just unload this, like Army of tourists and then.

C

Thousands of people march on yeah.

B

So the rest of the Island's pretty quiet um except for downtown um and then in the downtowns, where everybody makes their money off the tourists, and so there's people dancing and there's music and restaurants and monkeys and all parrots and all kinds of crazy stuff going on down there.

B

But it was nice to be able to like you, don't have to go very far out of town to to get some peace and quiet and, like I said, there's a rainforest. I didn't get a chance to go check that out, um but some other people went and hiked it and there's uh um um hot uh hot baths or hot hot springs. uh But that's not as nice as it sounds because it's already pretty hot and humid there. So.

C

Sounds great in Washington or in Michigan yeah.

B

Yeah yeah I know it's: it's been a shock coming back here to the cold weather, that's that's like right, downtown and so there's all this duty-free stuff. So you there's like gold and silver and diamonds and uh liquor and like all these things that like would normally be taxed, pretty heavily in other countries. It's all tax free down there, so uh tourists kind of get off the cruise boats and buy some of that stuff.

B

uh Little white loon. They were all over the place. There's a Bitcoin cash uh poster as soon as soon as you get off the cruise ship. It's right there.

C

What's the QR code of big QR code on it.

B

Yeah yeah to download the wallet this was. This was a taxi guy who accepts Bitcoin cash on WhatsApp yeah, and so this is a boat that we took out uh so Sunny. He owned the bar and it was like midnight and he's like hey: let's go catch a fish, so we all got on this boat and we went and caught a Big Tuna there's you can kind of see it here. Oh wow, um so yeah we went and caught tuna and then took it back to the bar and cooked it up. That was pretty fun.

B

It was nice to get out on a boat right, another cool kind of flower that I thought was unique. Some of the guys this was a representative from Antigua, and so he was there just sort of checking out. What's going on because and so Saint Kitts has less than 50 000 people. St Martin has less than a hundred thousand people and Antigua has less than 200 000 people. So it's it's kind of a doubling of population for each island and so they're.

B

All so Saint Kitts is because I think because they're smaller they can move faster and uh um they uh uh they can. um You know they're just moving fast, so St Martin's, right behind them, they're, they're, they're, looking to make uh Bitcoin cash legal tender and- uh and then antique was looking very closely on- what's happening there too.

B

So this is just just more of the events. This is at the conference.

B

And me giving the panel talk and if anybody I I posted a YouTube video to the the psf telegram channel uh about my presentation, which was on our cash stack and how to lower uh infrastructure costs. It was very well received.

C

Yeah I was wondering to help that um did people come up to you afterwards. What was the? What was the um I guess, adoption from that perspective of people going? Oh hey, can you tell me more how do I get to your site? How do I learn more I saw your QR code. I didn't snap it? What about what do I need to do? Yeah.

B

um I mean it was a little technical for most people like.

A

C

A

B

Focus was really on the citizenship by investment and the legal tender, um but uh I definitely had people come up to me that are like hey, I'm, I'm, I work for a financial institution, and we want to get into this token thing and, and so we'll be in touch with you and uh yeah this this any anytime. You talk about lowering infrastructure costs that catches people's ears.

D

A

So just a few more people so.

C

They had a photographer there doing a lot of the.

B

Yeah yeah there were, um there were several photographers um and uh bands and man it was it was. It was crazy and they had a big wheel, you'd Spin to Win Win Some Bitcoin cash like uh like Wheel of Fortune and uh yeah. It was pretty pretty good stuff. I took some videos too, but I don't think I could bring them up very well, but uh I. Just Dro I took a rented a moped for a day and drove around the island, um because I I really want to go back in January.

B

I started talking to um a lot of the people about like an educational program. I think El Salvador's been really inspirational in that regard. Like they've they've increased their tourism they've increased, like their educational programs, I'd like I'd love to go down there and train some locals on on how to uh um retrofit Merchant websites in order to accept Bitcoin cash. Like a lot of that. That needs to happen, and so I'm, assuming we're kind of at the bottom of an exponential growth curve of merchant adoption and.

C

B

These existing Merchants, they need, they have websites and they need to retrofit those websites to accept Bitcoin cash. So the.

C

Prompt.Cash stuff is really really fast and easy to use and it goes directly to a hardware wallet I mean that's where I have it going to uh you know: I have my x-pub key from my Hardware wallet. It's it's really simple. Yeah.

B

Yeah, it is really simple yeah, so that's an idea I'm trying to explore, with with more of the the locals down there, I actually just sent a message to MP Bryson yesterday about that. uh Just saying: hey, you know, if you're thinking about an educational program or a jobs program like I'd, be happy to go down there and train people.

E

I think El Salvador was going with Bitcoin and some L2 like lightning or something yeah. Will they be interested in Bitcoin cash? No.

B

uh No I mean the the the it was funny like a lot of Bitcoin Maximus really lost their when they heard about this conference going down and uh and they're complaining about all the Bitcoin cash stickers everywhere. uh uh You know like El Salvador itself. I, don't think is, is hostile to other cryptos they're, just they're just focused on BTC, and but the thing is the the lightning adoption down there. I've heard a lot of different things. They basically have like it's it's a very tightly controlled, custodial system.

B

They have down there and that's what lets it work right and, uh and so, if you but like Americans who go down there, have a very different experience than the locals do because the locals have the local wallet that that Americans can't tap into, and so it's just it's just a very different experience, and uh so you know so they're.

B

Not it's just there's just there's a lot of infrastructure there that if it wasn't there, the whole thing wouldn't really work properly, but you can go down to Saint Kitts with any Bitcoin cash wallet and have the exact same experience like it. It's.

C

Just it's just.

B

Easier on the L1 yeah yeah yeah, I I was making a bunch of those um I. Don't have one handy, those uh laser engraved cards, I uh I made a bunch of those and uh I put like 10 cents, a Bitcoin cash and a psf token on them, and I was handing those out to everybody and they loved them. Oh that's.

D

B

Yeah, and so it's you know it's it's that simple like uh like you can't do that with lightning and uh just just be like.

B

Oh, you know like here: I could put like ten dollars on a cart and give you the card and, and then you know you can deal with that later, when when you have time you know it's it takes like that fast, and so that you know that's just an example of the kind of thing you can do with a layer, one that you can't do with lightning, so yeah I I think whatever works right, but that's why I found MP Bryson to be so inspiring because he's really dug deep he's looked at all the different Technologies he's, looking he's lifted, BTC and lightning, and uh he's he's reached the conclusion that the Bitcoin cash is the best fit for his country.

C

That's good, if you have someone reaching out and actually going to different conferences and understanding them, rather than just taking somebody like Samson now and I forgot, who all went to to set El Salvador and met with bucale but yeah. He just took their word, for it really didn't spend much time with.

A

B

Rest of it yeah and another idea, I was kind of exploring with some of them we didn't get very far. Is they uh Saint?

B

Kitts is an inactive volcano, so they could they could they don't currently tap it for geopower, because it's it's inactive but there's new tech, where they're they're, using lasers, to drill now, instead of like mechanical drill bits, and so they can go much deeper uh with these with this new technology and uh and so there's totally a possibility of of using their their and I mean there's all these hot springs near the surface. So it's not that deep right, so it's totally possible for them to set up a geothermal Mining facility. There.

C

I would I would imagine as soon as they see some success from El Salvador on mining with the volcano. Who wouldn't? Why would you not like because it doesn't cost you energy right, it's coming from the volcano, it doesn't cost you electricity, you don't have to you know it's almost a uh it's.

B

Free money, it's.

C

Free money and it's a source of um like how do you make? How does your country make money citizens by investment, taxing people and nothing right.

B

Now you have a third yeah yeah, so yeah a lot, a lot of possibilities up there, I'm not I'm gonna, try and go down there once a year just for a vacation if nothing else, uh just to just keep an eye on everything. That's going on down there, it's pretty exciting, and that was just say kiss I mean that's. The smallest island, uh St Martin looks to be like much more Dynamic, so I.

C

Don't have anything.

A

If you're there a month, you'll probably get a chance to hit.

C

Multiple right, if you're, if you do go down for months, you'll, be able to see more yeah.

B

Once you're down there, it's like it's pretty inexpensive to hop on a little plane to go from one Island to the other, yeah yeah. So pretty.

A

Cool thanks for the update that was great.

C

I mean really appreciate you going down and representing psf there, and um you know: I I I think that having at least one technical talk is a good idea. Otherwise it's all seems like it's. You know it's not a technology, it's a it's a money thing, but it really is a technology and you can do stuff in it. It is permissionless. So representing us was um I, don't know, definitely appreciated. Yeah.

B

Well, you know I could see particularly like when I was on stage. I could see the crowd and I could see MP Bryson's eyes light up when I was talking about. Not only um is our cash stack, you know capable of lowering costs, it's it's capable of of uh like getting out of big tech and and not being exposed to. You know their control, but also it's you know, like we've always talked about it's it's Community Technology.

B

You can have one person running this Tech to support a thousand to ten thousand users, and so it's really good. For you know it's it's Community, Technology and yeah.

C

B

What they have down there would.

C

You say 90 less right. That means people are thinking, wait a minute. I could run three of them and still be, let you know still have it half the cost of running one, because three is way more. You know, you know, that's uh that the people aren't thinking necessarily about lowering costs. They want to have a more solid infrastructure as.

B

Well, yeah yeah, exactly so yeah I'm uh I'm, hoping that uh I'll I'll get I like just yesterday. I had someone reach out to me who was like yeah I saw the presentation. I want to know more. You know so I'm hoping that that we'll get more of that and uh yeah. You know it's it's I. A lot of what we talked about at the conference is not going to come to fruition for like the next year to five years. You know like it's still, not technically Illegal Tender.

B

Yet once that happens, so I'm I'm, really looking at it as a business opportunity. Personally, like I, live in this sort of cold Northern, Area I would love to go down there in the winter and work and and help them with their adoption and their growth, and then come back up here in the summer just play in my boat up here and.

C

Right and you don't need to be in a particular location, you're right developing right, so you can connect all the servers to everywhere, just as if you're sitting right, where you're at right now in the North Pole or wherever you are.

B

Yeah yeah well, and it makes more sense for me to be where the action is, which seems to be down there. So yeah yeah, so I'm excited we'll see what the future holds.

C

Yeah very nice.

B

All right, guys well I, think that's a a wrap for today appreciate.

C

B

Yeah and stoyan, thank you.

D

B

You too, Aaron glad you're holding down the fort over there and stoyan. Thank you for the the demo on the extension great great work. There um I think. Let's continue having discussions among ourselves of like how to use this Tech, like you know how, chiefly, how do we make money with it like what? What, uh like you know, uh Aaron Sunman I can see a pretty clear application. You know for what you're doing and Aaron Shoemaker is pretty excited about it with his VR headset work and uh um I.

B

I am definitely interested with the the single sign-on and the buy now button uh applications. You know that's pretty cool I.

C

Expect, probably in the next I'm say a week now, I'll be able to like try some Alpha users so uh for own rare, so um I'll reach out via the telegram group as soon as and give referral codes, because I'm requiring a referral code for any new sign ups in the beginning, because I want to make sure that I limit because I don't want it well.

B

And I I have a couple artists that I can put you in contact with um that might be interested in in listing some some real artwork up there. So.

C

My plan is to give them two dollars, so they don't have to have any Bitcoin cash in the beginning, so they can mint for free because I'm going to charge five cents to Mint because I really don't it does cost something.

C

um But if with two bucks you can you can mint 40 things for free and sell them and then make money off. It never have to even touch Bitcoin cash until you want to take it out and cash it out. So yeah, um that's the that's! The plan I have right. Now you.

B

Know I think I forgot to tell you guys shortly before I left for the conference, um because it was like coming up on Halloween. uh uh What is it called? um Toshi I think it's called Toshi monster or something I don't know. Maybe I already told you guys about this yeah a little Toshi.

C

A little Toshi.

B

Yeah, it's like it's, it's like fan art, and so they had a contest to make these nfts, so they used the nft Creator uh and, like probably like 10 different people were making uh this fan art nfts and uh they had a contest, and it was. It was pretty cool to watch like actual usage of this nft creator that I built yeah.

C

That was neat. It was Aaron from Bitcoin Creations who yeah like started that right who got them onto it. I thought that was neat because he when I talked to him. He said that they started out on smart bch and basically lost a lot of steam. When that, when that all then that all happened and so he's like hey, no, we can still do it. There's new things that keep going. Let's do this.

B

Yeah yeah yeah, pretty cool, pretty cool okay guys. Well, let's call it a wrap.

D

C