►
Description
The Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and The Homeless of the Council of the City of Philadelphia will hold a Public Hearing on Thursday, November 14, 2019, at 1:00 PM, in Room 400, City Hall, to hear testimony on the following item:
190860 An Ordinance amending Title 7 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled “Housing Code,” by adding a new Chapter 7 200, entitled “Preservation of Affordable Housing;” all under certain terms and conditions.
A
We're
good
to
go
now.
Okay.
Thank
you
good
afternoon
hearing
this
call
to
order
I
want
to
recognize
the
presence
of
a
quorum
of
Kuti
members.
Members
of
the
committee
in
attendance
are
to
my
far
left:
councilmember
Alberta
councilmember,
Helen
Jim,
and
to
my
immediate
right,
vice
chair
of
this
committee,
councilmember
Jamie
Blackwell,
and
to
my
far
right
council
member
Derek
Greene.
This
is
the
public
hearing
of
the
Committee
on
housing,
Neighborhood,
Development
and
the
homeless.
C
C
You
know
we
were
not
having
the
same
level
of
construction
that
we
do
now
and
what's
happening
that
number
these
units
are
on
transit
transition
to
market
rehousing.
As
someone
that
has
a
background,
small
business
of
the
form
small
business
lender
and
entrepreneur,
I
definitely
don't
want
to
impact
the
market,
but
to
the
extent
that
we
can
preserve,
affordable
housing
units
when
we're
losing.
So
many
that's
the
goal
of
this
piece
of
legislation.
C
D
Sorry
about
that
working
on
the
next
35
pieces
of
legislation-
oh
good
afternoon,
chairman
chairperson,
dom
council
member,
green
and
members
of
the
housing
Neighborhood
Development
and
the
homeless
committee.
I'm
am
fiddling
director
of
the
Department
of
Planning
and
Development
and
I'm
here
to
testify
on
bill
number
one:
nine,
zero,
eight,
six,
zero.
The
bill
amends
the
Philadelphia
housing
code
by
adding
a
new
chapter
on
the
preservation
of
affordable
housing.
D
The
bill
provides
a
regulatory
framework
through
which
extended
notice
would
be
required
for
developers
of
government
subsidized
housing
projects
of
an
impending
action
that
may
result
in
the
loss
of
affordable
units.
Further
the
bill
defines
a
mechanism
by
which
eligible
parties
would
be
offered
the
opportunity
to
purchase
the
property
in
order
to
maintain
affordability.
The
Department
of
Planning
and
Development
is
open
to
a
variety
of
mechanisms
to
preserve,
affordable
rental
housing
and
we
believe
further
discussion
is
warranted
on
the
proposed
bill
to
ensure
it
achieves
its
intended
goal.
D
C
D
C
D
So
you
know
I
think
we've
talked
about
this
a
little
bit
or
a
lot
a
bit.
I
think
you
know,
a
lot
of
our
challenges
are
different
than
sort
of
what
is
taking
a
lot
of
energy
on
the
national
level,
which
is
really
about
very
high
cost
cities
and
having
a
limited
supply.
We
don't
necessarily
have
those
exact
same
issues
here,
so
we
don't
our
issue,
isn't
necessarily
that
we
just
need
to
build
more
more
more
more
more
more.
Our
issue
is
more
that
we
have
very
old
housing
stock
and
we
have
very
low
incomes.
D
So
a
lot
of
it
is
about
how
to
be
preserve
the
existing
stock.
We
have,
for
example,
if
you
consider
housing
or
building
similar
to
how
you
consider
other
infrastructure
right,
we're
a
350
year
old
city,
we're
talking
about
how
do
we
replace
our
roads,
our
bridges,
our
you
know,
sewer
system,
all
those
things
that
are
starting
to
deteriorate,
because
they've
been
around
a
long
time.
The
same
thing
is
true
of
our
buildings
right.
D
A
huge
percentage
of
our
buildings
are
not
only
40
years
old,
but
they're,
50
years
old,
60
years
old,
70
years
old,
so
our
buildings
are
starting
to
are
more
than
starting
to
deteriorate.
So
a
lot
of
our
effort
is
around.
How
do
we
preserve
that
I?
Think
another
issue
for
us
around,
affordable
housing,
particularly
preservation,
is
that
we
used
to
get
a
lot
more
federal
dollars,
so
we
were
able
to
produce
a
lot
more
units.
D
A
lot
of
those
units
are
now
starting
to
age
out
of
their
compliance
periods
and
they
are
at
risk
of
being
lost
because
we
don't
have
the
same
amount
of
dollars
to
recapitalize
and
so
I
think
we
are
working
very
diligently
with
a
lot
of
the
advocates
about.
How
do
we
come
up
with
different
solutions
in
order
to
be
able
to
preserve
those
units
and
I
have
to
say
one
other
thing:
I'm,
sorry
and
and
I
again,
getting
to
very
old
units
with
very
low
incomes.
C
The
best
ways
to
address
poverty
is
by
increasing
jobs
and
the
best
creative
jobs
of
small
businesses
and
also
well
before
I,
go
to
the
next
point.
What's
the
current
amount
of
dollars
would
I
give
a
specific
number
but
disarrange
dollars
that
the
city
receives
from
we
can
sell
under
the
consolidated
plan,
so.
D
From
the
federal
government
we
receive
about
between
home
dollars
and
Community
Development,
Block,
Grant
I
would
say
it's
in
the
area
of
about
50
million.
Then
we
get
another
thirty
three
and
a
half
million
from
continuum
of
care
that
ends
up
going
to
the
office
of
housing,
I'm,
sorry
office
of
supportive
housing,
which
I
think
is
you
know,
Lee's
her
shoe
shop,
so
all
told
from
the
federal
government
we
probably
get
in
the
vicinity
of
about
a
hundred
million
dollars
from
this
state.
We
are
Oh
shop,
doesn't
get
as
much
money.
D
We
get
a
few
million
which
is
kind
of
a
pass-through
and
then
from
our
Housing
Trust
Funds.
Thanks
to
this
body
and
the
administration
we
have
about
I
would
say
thirteen
to
fifteen
million
dollars
a
year
coming
through
the
recording
feed
piece,
and
then
we
have
gotten
twenty
million
dollars
over
the
last
two
years
in
the
other
fund
and.
C
A
part
of
the
issue
of
why
we've
had
to
create
a
Housing,
Trust
Fund
next
I
have
another
bill
to
try
to
provide
this
on
Dallas
to
the
trust
funds,
especially
for
the
lowest
income
individuals
with
regard
to
and
density
bonus.
But
part
of
that
is
that
we
at
the
local
level
had
to
make
up
for
the
lack
of
resources
that
we've
been
receiving
at
the
federal
level
when
I
used
to
represent
and
also
have
a
Community
Development.
We
were
probably
getting
in
the
con
plane
well
over
20
million
dollars.
So
I
go.
C
C
A
You
councilman
Greene
I,
have
a
question
for
you,
a
very
nice
testimony
by
the
way.
Thank
you.
Do
we
offer
financial
literacy
courses
to
people
in
these
programs
or
entrepreneurship
courses
and
anyone
in
any
affordable
housing
units
that
they
could
take
those
courses
for
free
to
help
them
advance
their
own
personal
position
in
life?
So.
D
E
Good
afternoon,
chairman
Daum
members
of
the
committee,
especially
a
Councilwoman
Blackwell,
who
represents
the
district
in
which
I
live
and
councilmember
green.
My
name
is
andrew,
fresh
cough.
I'm
the
director
of
risk
philadelphia,
local
initiative,
support
corporation,
and
I
would
like
to
present
testimony
regarding
bill
number
one:
nine,
zero,
eight
six,
zero,
specifically
about
preservation
of
affordable
housing
through
right
of
notice
and
right
of
first
refusal.
I,
would
like
the
permission,
if
it's
okay,
to
bring
up
two
colleagues
from
Community,
Legal,
Services
and
Regional
Housing
legal
services.
F
Good
afternoon,
thank
you
to
the
panel
and
to
particularly
councilmember
Greene
and
chairman
Dom.
My
name
is
Dena
schlossberg
and
I
am
a
staff.
I
am
a
deputy
director
of
regional
housing,
legal
services
and
enact
our
organization
is
an
active
member
of
the
preservation
Network
that
I
believe
and
he's
going
to
talk
about.
E
These
are
precarious
times
for
lower-income
families
and
individuals,
making
the
need
for
affordable
housing
development
and
preservation,
especially
acute
one
in
four
households
in
Philadelphia
struggle
to
pay,
rent
Philadelphia
lost
nearly
24,000
market
rate
apartments
with
rents
of
$750
or
less
in
the
past
15
years,
and
an
estimated
10,000
units
of
affordable
housing
may
be
at
risk
of
loss
in
the
next
20
years
in
Philadelphia,
due
to
expiring
funding
contracts
from
federal
agencies
or
to
housing.
Tax
credit
expirations.
E
Unfortunately,
publicly
assisted
housing
is
also
at
risk
due
to
expiring
subsidy
contracts
and
affordability
requirements.
Data
from
the
national
housing
preservation
database
suggests
by
2035,
as
many
as
10,000
units
may
be
at
risk,
and
every
Council
District
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia
may
have
at
least
100
at-risk
units.
This
is
especially
sobering
when
we
consider
the
publicly
assisted
properties
that
have
been
lost
previously.
For
example,
in
2016
nearly
220
lower-income
seniors
were
displaced
when
the
building
owner
of
over
Mont
house
converted
the
property
to
student
housing.
E
The
property
had
been
subsidized
through
Federal
Housing,
Finance
funding
and
provided
section
8
subsidies
to
seniors
for
40
years
foundation
for
the
future.
Developing
Philadelphia's
housing
action
plan
is
the
companion
to
the
city's
housing
action
plan
that
was
released
earlier
this
year.
It
includes
core
recommendations
and
strategies
to
address
at-risk
properties
and
preserve,
affordable
rental
housing
in
the
city,
which
include
improving,
available
and
actionable
data
about
publicly
assisted,
affordable
rental
properties.
E
So
we
can
actually
know
more
clearly
what
the
state
of
properties
are
and
when
they
may
actually
be
coming
up
for
subsidy,
renewal
or
expiration,
strengthen
the
capacity
of
residents,
owners
and
others
to
repair
recapitalize
and
manage
properties,
develop
new
financing
options
and
revenue
streams
to
preserve
at-risk
properties
and
enact
new
laws
and
regulations
to
support
long-term
preservation
of
affordable
rental
housing.
Bill
number
one:
nine,
zero,
eight
six
zero
falls
within
this
fourth
strategy.
E
The
goal
of
this
bill
is
to
fold
the
right
have
noticed,
provided
24
months
notice
when
affordability
periods
or
rent
subsidy
contracts
expire.
So
the
city
and
interested
advocates
and
purchasers
have
time
to
develop
a
preservation
plan
right
of
first
refusal,
opportunity
for
a
qualified,
non-profit,
developer
government
agency,
and/or
tenant
Association
to
purchase
the
property
and
commit
to
keeping
it
affordable.
The
two-year
process
will
create
an
opportunity
for
developers
and
building
owners
to
engage
in
an
open
and
transparent
process
for
preserving,
affordable
housing.
E
The
timeline
provides
owners
with
notice
that
the
owners
will
provide
notice
to
the
city.
The
city
will
have
ten
days
to
forward
the
list
of
properties
to
eligible
parties
and
post
publicly
eligible
entities
have
180
days
to
provide
bona
fide
offers
to
owners
and
if
no
bonafide
offers
receive
the
owners
and
can
secure
a
purchaser
and
must
notify
the
city
of
purchase,
price
eligible
entities
have
additional
60
days
to
reach
a
matched
agreement
of
sale
and
throughout
the
process.
Owners
can
market
the
property
and
sell
to
an
entity
that
agrees
to
affordability.
E
Restrictions
through
discuss
discussions
within
the
preservation
network.
I
am
aware
that
there
are
requests
to
clarify
some
of
the
proposed
timelines
in
the
bill
and
that
the
administration
is
proposing
some
technical
amendments
whiskas
not
opposed
to
any
such
friendly
amendments
that
will
strengthen
the
bill.
I
would
also
support
the
language
that
specifies
the
need
for
a
regulatory
framework
to
complete
completed
prior
to
the
date
that
the
provisions
of
Bill
one
nine
zero,
eight
six
zero
would
take
effect.
E
As
we
know,
Philadelphia
is
experiencing
a
period
of
economic
and
population
growth
in
tandem
with
the
other
three
preservation
strategies
included
in
foundation
for
the
future
bill
number
one:
nine,
zero,
eight
six
zero
will
further
Philadelphia's
prosperity
by
helping
residents
stay
in
their
homes
and
neighborhoods,
while
they
seek
further
economic
opportunities.
Thank
you.
Thank.
C
C
E
Don't
know
that
there's
any
clear
indication
and
no
data
that
I'm
aware
of
from
other
cities,
that
enactment
of
these
provisions
would
have
a
deterrent
effect
on
creation
of
new,
affordable
housing
proceeding
forward.
This
simply
creates
a
regulatory
framework
to
allow
for
a
disposition
of
properties
if
the
owners
choose
to
sell
which
would
allow
for
new
owners
to
maintain
affordability,
I
think
the
other
thing
I
would
just
state
is
that,
generally
speaking,
preservation
of
affordable
rental
housing
generally
is
a
less
expensive
task
than
creation
of
new,
affordable
rental
housing
for
the
same
residents
generally.
E
It
may
take
$350,000
per
unit
to
create
a
new,
affordable
rental
unit,
and
it
may
take
as
little
as
40,000
or
up
to
two
hundred
thousand
typically
for
preservation.
So
the
other
thing
I
think
we
would
want
to
look
at
in
the
calculus
is
maintaining.
Affordability
of
these
units
is
greater
than
creation
of
new,
just
in
terms
of
the
cost
benefit
to
the
public.
C
So
you're
saying
from
a
cost-benefit
analysis,
it's
more
expensive
to
build
additional,
affordable
housing
units
than
to
preserve
existing,
affordable
housing
units
and
considering
that
we
have
a
declining
number
of
affordable
units
and
an
limited
amount
of
resources,
and
that
we
can
do
to
maintain
the
number
of
our
existing
units.
Even
though
that
number
is
not
not
something
that
you'll
be
supportive
of
yeah.
E
G
Think
the
other
important
aspect
is
that
the
affordable
housing
that
we
stand
to
lose
right
now
is
often
in
neighborhoods
of
opportunity
and
in
order
to
build
new,
affordable
housing,
we're
not
gonna
be
able
to
build
them
in
those
same
neighborhoods
of
opportunity,
and
so
in
an
attempt
to
stop
the
concentration
of
poverty
and
certain
neighborhoods.
It's
really
important
that
we
are
able
to
hold
on
to
the
affordable
housing
in
the
neighborhoods.
G
So
neighborhoods
of
opportunity
are
neighborhoods
that
are
close
to
public
transportation,
close
to
jobs,
close
to
good
schools
close
to
people's
places
of
employment,
that
help
lift
families
out
of
poverty
as
opposed
to
neighborhoods
that
are
further
away
from
these
other
opportunities
and
for
children.
Their
statistics
that
show
that
if
you
grow
up
in
a
neighborhood
where
you
have
access
to
a
good
education
to
food,
to
your
parents
being
able
to
go
to
work,
you're
much
more
likely
to
be
able
to
pull
yourself
out
of
poverty.
G
Then
if
you
live
in
a
neighborhood
where
you're
far
away
from
these
things,
and
so
it's
important
that
we
as
a
city
be
able
to
look
holistically
at
where
we
currently
do
have
affordable
housing.
And
how
do
we
continue
to
preserve
affordable
housing
in
those
specific
neighborhoods?
And
not
just
look
in
totality
at
the
city
and
say?
Well,
we
have
X
number
of
affordable
housing
units
and
it
doesn't
really
matter
where
they
are
in
the
city.
F
Thank
you.
Yes,
I
just
want
to
echo
what
Rachael
has
just
described.
We
are
very
concerned
that
residents
that
are
living
in
neighborhoods
that
are
state
that
are
moving
towards
stability,
moving
towards
transforming
particularly
transforming
kind
of
economics
that
the
nape
that
the
people
who
live
in
those
units
have
an
opportunity
to
reside
in
that
community
over
a
longer
period
of
time.
F
C
F
I'll
start
you
guys
yeah.
So
the
way
it's
perceived
or
the
way
it's
described
is
that
if
a
party
who
has
an
covered
or
protected
action
is
interested
in,
say,
selling
their
building
or
perhaps
deciding
in
advance
that
they're
no
longer
interested
in
having
a
long-term
contract
for,
say
project-based
Section,
eight
they're
required
to
give
notice
that
it.
What
would
be
as
Andy
fresh
graph
has
described
twenty
four
months
in
advance
of
the
action
that
you
intend
to
take
for
the
first.
F
The
city
has
ten
days
to
provide
that
notice
to
what
a
group
of
already
pre-qualified
parties
who
have
been
pre-qualified
to
be
able
to
be
to
enter
into
an
agreement
and
the
opportunity
to
purchase
that
property.
If
that
is
the
action,
if
the
party
is
intending
to
sell
the
for
the
first
six
months
after
the
notice
has
been
provided,
the
seller
may
only
enter
into
an
agreement
with
one
of
those
pre
designated
eligible
parties.
F
Doesn't
stop
a
seller
from
marketing
it
doesn't
stop
a
seller
from
having
conversations
is
simply
asking
the
sellers
to
take
a
pause
and
allow
the
coordinated
gets
network
to
find
a
buyer
who
might
be
interested
in
keeping
the
pretty
affordable
for
a
longer
period
of
time.
The
end
of
that
six-month
period,
if
there
is
not
an
eligible
party
that
has
come
forward,
is
reached
an
agreement
with
the
seller.
We
can't
make
a
seller
enter
an
agreement.
They
don't
want
to
enter
into,
but
what?
F
If,
at
the
end
of
that
six-month
period,
if
there
is
no
agreement,
the
seller
or
the
part
the,
but
the
property
owner
is
free
to
take
other
action.
If
that
property
owner
enters
into
a
contract
or
an
agreement
with
another
party
who's,
not
an
eligible
party,
they
are
then
required
to
give
those
material
terms
back
to
the
city,
so
the
city
has
another
60
days.
A
E
E
A
And
the
other
question
just
as
a
suggestion,
that's
something
that's
important
to
all
of
us.
Are
you
familiar
with
benefits
data
trust?
Yes,
so
they
have
to
carry
this
chart.
It's
pretty
ratty
in
my
pocket,
okay,
but
it
shows
this
450
million
dollars
of
federal
money
that
we
leave
on
the
table.
I'm
just
wondering
if
there's
any
way
that
you
could
connect
those
people,
the
86
hundred
people,
to
these
programs,
or
maybe
already
doing
that,
but
the
more
we
can
get
this
money
in
their
hands,
the
better
it
will
be
for
everybody.
I.
Think.
E
We
can
all
do
a
better
job.
There
have
been
efforts,
some
of
which
were
led
by
by
HUD,
to
try
to
create
information
network
for
both
housing
authority
residents,
as
well
as
residents
and
other
federally
assisted
properties.
I,
don't
know
the
current
status
of
those
we
try
to
do
it
in
partnership,
but
I
think
we
could
do
better
and
I
do
think
if
the
benefits
data
trust
were
able
to
have
the
contact
list
is
that's
always
the
key
for
them
in
their
model.
Then
it
would
be
possible
for
their
model
to
do.
E
A
H
Good
afternoon,
chairman
dung
vice-chair
Blackwell
councilman
green
distinguished
members
of
the
panel.
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
opportunity
to
testify.
Today.
My
name
is
Jacob.
Fischer
I
am
regional.
Vice
president,
with
Penrose
LLC
on
behalf
of
my
company
and
its
owners,
Richard
Barnhart
marked
and
Lee
and
Tim
Henkel
I'm
here
to
speak
in
opposition
to
the
proposed
legislation
as
developers
and
proponents
of
affordable
housing.
We
recognize
that
the
intent
of
this
bill
is
to
extend
affordability,
but
we
feel
the
legislation
takes
the
wrong
approach.
H
First,
the
bill
presumes
that
any
sale
or
exploration
of
an
affordability
covenant
means
that
the
project
will
inevitably
become
market
rate.
This
has
not
historically
been
the
case
over
Penn
roses.
40
year
history
we
have
developed
one
thousand
five
hundred
and
fifty
nine
units
of
affordable
housing
in
34,
separate
developments
in
Philadelphia.
Over
that
time
period
we
have
occasionally
sold
or
otherwise
transferred
ownership
of
our
properties
to
our
nonprofit
partners.
In
some
cases,
rather
than
sell,
we
have
secured
new
resources
to
renovate
a
property
and
extend
its
affordability,
for
example,
Regent
Terrace
in
southwest
Philadelphia.
H
In
1988
we
converted
a
dilapidated
vacant
historic
building
into
80,
affordable
housing
units.
Then,
17
years
later,
in
2005
we
secured
resources
to
renovate
it
and
extend
the
affordability
for
another
30
years.
We
did
the
same
thing
a
few
years
later,
with
96
units
in
Strawberry
Mansion
and
in
only
one
case,
have
we
sold
a
property
which
was
then
converted
to
market
rate,
which
was
close
in
West
Philadelphia
and
council
and
Blackwell's
district.
H
It
consisted
of
a
hundred
and
ten
units
which
went
to
market
rate,
which
means
that
one
thousand
four
hundred
and
forty
nine
unit
of
the
units
that
we
have
developed
in
Philadelphia
remain
affordable.
The
second
problem
that
we
have
with
the
bill
is
that
it
interferes
with
the
design
of
the
low-income
housing
tax
credit
program.
The
tax
credit
program,
which
is
hands-down
the
most
successful
engine
for
the
development
of
affordable
housing
in
the
history
of
this
country,
has
helped
to
fund
almost
all
of
Penn
roses.
Philadelphia
developments.
H
In
doing
so,
the
developer
earns
a
fee
and
earns
the
opportunity
that,
at
the
end
of
30
years,
the
property
would
have
the
potential
under
the
right
conditions
to
be
sold
at
a
market
price
with
minimal
regulatory
impediment.
This
bill,
which
would
be
applied
to
any
affordable
property,
regardless
of
when
it
was
developed
and
how
much
time
is
left
on
its
affordability.
Current
covenant
reneged
on
this
original
premise
of
that
tax
credit
program.
Finally,
the
timelines
required
by
this
bill
create
problems
for
tenants
owners
and
potential
buyers.
H
Providing
a
two
year
notice
of
intent
to
sell
will
cause
unnecessary
stress
for
residents.
It
creates
an
atmosphere
of
uncertainty
where,
in
reality,
the
property
may
never
become
market
and
a
tenant
may
not
have
anything
to
be
concerned
about
the
required
two
year.
Notice
may
also
impact
an
owners
ability
to
sell
and
a
buyer's
interest
in
buying
whether
you're
selling
an
apartment,
complex
or
selling.
A
house
time
is
of
the
essence
in
any
real
estate
transaction.
An
offer
available
today
may
not
be
there
in
six
to
eight
months,
because
market
conditions
may
have
changed.
H
Interest
rates
have
gone
up
where
a
buyers
moved
onto
another
property.
The
bill
slows
that
things
down
too
much.
It
requires
that
the
owner
delay
the
wider
marketing
of
their
property
for
six
months.
Then
it
requires
that
the
owner
offer
a
right
of
first
refusal
to
a
group
of
eligible
liars
that
already
did
not
buy
the
property
during
the
initial
period.
These
waiting
periods
made
to
vanish
the
value
of
the
property
by
making
buyers
less
interested,
or
it
may
kill
the
possibility
of
a
sale
by
turning
buyers
off
completely.
H
It's
not
clear
how
distorting
the
market
in
this
way
serves
the
intent
of
extending
affordability,
rather,
it
penalizes
developers
and
creates
a
more
in
his
spot,
inhospitable
environment
for
developing,
affordable
housing
in
the
city.
If
the
goal
is
to
preserve
affordable
housing,
here's
some
suggestions
to
modify
the
bill
or
to
introduce
a
new
program,
one
is
to
create
a
fund
that
helps
firms
to
acquire
properties
coming
out
of
compliance
or
to
help
owners.
Rece
indicate
their
properties
and
extend
the
affordability
period,
as
Penrose
did,
with
Regent
Terrace
and
in
Strawberry.
H
Mansion
second
provide
housing
vouchers
to
tenants
and
properties
that
might
be
subject
to
sale
at
and
conversion
to
market
rate,
to
ensure
that
they
have
ongoing
opportunities
to
pay
an
affordable
rent,
either
in
their
current
community
or
another
one,
finally,
consult
with
developers
to
determine
appropriate
timelines
that
work
with
market
conditions
and
do
not
impede
developer's
ability
to
sell
penrose
would
be
pleased
to
work
with
this
committee
and
others
to
design
approach.
It's
done
the
design
of
any
program
or
bill
that
would
create
new
and
preserve
existing,
affordable
housing.
H
C
C
But
part
of
the
street
administers
on
the
under
NCI,
which
it
was
working
closely,
which
was
the
office
of
neighborhood
transformation
initiatives
which
costal
worked
closely
with
the
office
of
neighborhood
preservation,
which
was
the
name
after
it
was
off
to
housing,
community
development
analysis,
apartment
of
Community
Development.
The
names
has
changed
question.
C
Agreeing
but
clearly
you've
worked
worked
in
city
government
and
worked
with
a
number
of
different
housing
agencies
over
time
very
familiar
with
that
work.
That's
done
by
this
various
departments
and
your
previous
well
before
you
joined
Penrose
as
a
regional
vice
president,
so
I'm
looking
at
your
testimony
and
I
just
had
a
few
a
few
questions.
C
If
you
could
maybe
provide
some
more
clarity
in
the
second
paragraph
of
your
testimony,
you
make
reference
to
the
fact
that
the
bill
presumes
that
any
sale,
expiration
of
any
have
an
affordable
covenant
means
that
a
private
woman
in
bed
inevitably
become
market
rate.
Can
you
give
some
perspective
on
it?
Well,.
H
So
I
mean
so
when
Andy
first
coughs
testified
earlier.
He
stated
some
statistics
that
had
basically
talked
about
I
I,
think
he
said
10,000
units
or
the
number,
but
those
are
properties
that
I
guess
will
be
coming
out
of
compliant
either
coming
out
of
a
compliance
period
are
coming
out
of
some
long-term
subsidy
contracts
and
the
potential
is
there
to
the
you
know,
to
sort
of
the
mind
of
the
drafters
of
the
bill
that
any
one
of
those
properties
could
become
market
rate,
and
so
it
it.
H
C
They
are
successful,
become
market
rate,
because
if
you
look
at
your
second
paragraph
I'm,
sorry
two
third
paragraph
of
your
testimony-
you
talk
about
your
second
problem
of
the
bills
that
interferes
with
the
design
of
the
London
housing
tax
credit
program.
So
give
us
some
perspective.
How
interferes
so.
H
The
divet.
The
developer
is
agreeing
to
a
number
of
things.
One
they're
agreeing
to
provide
all
of
the
all
of
the
guarantees:
the
operating
deficits,
the
construction
guarantees,
completion
guarantees
that
you're
going
to
lease
it
up
to
people
that
are,
in
fact,
income
qualified
for
a
period
of
time
and
that
period
of
time
is
30
years
and
in
exchange,
and
so
in
exchange.
For
those
resources.
H
The
developers
making
that
commitment
for
30
years
and
the
way
that
the
program
is
is
drafted
is
that,
after
that,
30
years,
the
compliance
and
the
deed
restrictions
are
lifted,
and
so
the
developer
has
choices
of
what
to
do
with
that
property,
whether
it's
to
sell
it,
whether
it's
to
continue
to
own
it,
keep
it
affordable,
whether
it's
to
convert
it
to
market
rate.
If
the
conditions
in
the
in
the
neighborhood,
where
it
is
allowed
for
it,
they
they
have
have
options.
H
Well,
there's
market
for
affordable
there's
market
for
market
rate,
those
might
be
two
different
numbers.
They
could
be
the
same
number
and
it
also
limits
the
pool
of
potential
buyers
right
at
the
at
the
outset,
and
this
bill
requires
that
those
potential
buyers
are
all
non
profits.
Well,
there's
plenty
of
for
profits
out
there
that
buy
and
sell
affordable
housing
and
maintain
affordability.
So
this
seems
to
to
to
create
a
pretty
tight
circle
of
who
could
be
your
potential
buyer,
but.
C
Granted
I
mean
there's
and
that's
one
of
the
vision,
the
revisions
I'm
looking
in
the
legislation
that,
if
you're
a
for-profit
or
nonprofit
entity
committed
to
keeping
a
local
housing
tax
credit
project,
affordable,
just
to
be
able
to
purchase
the
property
at
market
and
that's
something
that
we're
looking
to
amend.
But
when
you
but
you've
been
looking
at
your
your
your
testimony
when
you
say
interferes,
it
gives
a
perspective
that
it's
a
presumption
that
market
developers
will
those
who
want
to
sell
this
project
and
market
rate
will
be
interfered
with
so
there's.
C
How
does
it
well
you're
saying
that
the
legislation
presumes
that
any
project
will
invent
and
inevitably
become
a
marker,
a
project,
but
then
you're
also
saying
that
we
don't
want
to
have
restrictions
on
the
ability
for
options
for
a
developer.
That
takes
the
study
of
your
commitment
to
then
be
able
to
sell
to
a
market
rate
developer.
So
your
presumptions
are
somewhat
in
contradiction
because
you
can't
say
the
first
set
that
this
legislation
believes
that
all
prod,
because
they
go
to
the
local
housing
tax
credit
projects
become
market
rate.
H
C
So
your
perspective
is
that
this
legislation
and
reference
to
both
you
know
this
requirement
of
why
the
first
refusal
is
a
sledgehammer
sledgehammer
approach.
That
Penrose
does
not
support.
Yes,
okay,
is
that
a
new
perspective
new
to?
Is
it
new
that
Penrose
does
not
support
this
type
of
so
dynamic
of
right.
C
H
So
I
think
that
the
the
sledgehammer
side
of
it
is
that
you
have
to
wait
six
months
right
to
to
the
market
for
six
months
to
this
limited
group
of
nonprofit
buyers
which,
by
the
way
I'd
disagree
that
it
takes
six
months
to
figure
out
whether
you
want
to
buy
a
property
or
not,
and
then
after
six
months
go
and
market
that
widely
either
as
if
you
know,
you're.
Now,
opening
the
the
the
circle
of
who
you're
marketing
to
and
saying
hey.
H
What's
what's
the
price,
whether
its
market,
whether
it's
affordable,
Frank,
figuring
out
what
that
price
is
and
then
going
back
to
this
group
that
already
didn't
buy
it
the
first
time
and
say
here's
another
right
at
the
Apple
that
buyer
in
the
middle,
who
waited
the
six
months
and
then
made
the
offer,
what's
their
incentive
to
to
to
make
an
offer
whether
they're
offering
for
market
or
affordable.
If
they
know
somebody
can
come
and
scoop
it
out
from
under
them.
Based
on
this
right
of
first
refusal.
C
Okay,
well,
we
can
go
back
and
forth
on
that,
but
I
just
find
it
interesting
and
I
was
somewhat
close.
That
Penrose
now
is
taking
the
perspective
that
this
is
a
a
negative
approach.
You
know
back
in
the
mid-90s,
you
know
Penrose
worked
with
senator
Park
for
maple
village,
and
in
that
development
there
was
a
right
of
first
refusal
included
in
that
project.
That
was
done
some
years
ago
and
so
Penrose
was
willing
to
participate
and
right
in
first
refusal.
C
Then
you
would
think
they
were
one
of
the
participate
in
similar
projects
for
other
developments
around
the
city,
fidelity
for
right
of
first
refusal,
which
simply
just
provides
an
opportunity
for
the
nonprofit
entity
to
try
to
purchase
the
project
and
keep
it
affordable,
and
it's
something
that
I
think
that
we
need
to
do
going
forward
because
I
lack,
affordable
housing
units
that
we
have
in
the
city
of
Philippi,
just
fine.
It
is
interesting
that
it
was
okay
then,
but
it's
not
okay.
Now.
H
The
first
refusal
on
projects
with
nonprofit
partners
with
housing
authorities
with
with
cities
all
the
time,
I
think
that
the
difference
here
and
the
reason
that
it's
objectionable
is
that
it
wasn't
part
of
the
the
project
and
now
it's
being
imposed
later
on
by
the
city
after
the
fact
to
a
project
that
has,
you
know,
is
already
at
some
stage
of
its
compliance
period.
So
it
is
for
that
purpose.
H
C
Was
gonna
finish
my
question,
but
you,
since
you
opened
the
door,
so
it
seems
like
in
those
situations
where
you
have
a
non-profit
that
may
have
counsel,
or
they
themselves
have
a
perspective,
that
they
need
to
negotiate
a
right
of
first
refusal
at
a
time
and
a
project.
That's
okay,
in
order
for
it
to
me,
except
for
Penrose,
but
for
other
organizations
that
may
not
have
that
same
level
of
expertise
is
not
okay,.
C
So
it's
it's
good.
If
someone,
if
you're
negotiating
a
loan,
has
a
tax
credit
project-
and
you
have
a
non-profit
partner
that
has
the
skillset
and
expertise
to
say,
we
want
to
have
a
right
of
first
refusal,
this
project,
to
make
sure
that
we
have
the
ability
to
purchase
this
project
when
the
30th
time
period
is
up.
That's
okay
in
that
perspective,
but
for
others
who
may
not
have
the
same
level
of
expertise
to
request
it
at
the
negotiating
bargain
table.
That's
not
okay,
I'm!
C
You
know
not
the
answer,
but
that's
clearly
what
what
what
I'm
gathering
that,
if
some
nonprofits
have
that
ability,
then
we'll
have
to
feel,
will
be
forced
to
negotiate
that,
because
we're
now
bargaining
with
others
that
may
not
have
the
same
level
of
expertise
so
be
if
we
want
to
have
to
be
able
to
have
the
options
to
be
able
to
sell
it.
If
we
need
to
add
marker
rate,
even
though
we've
made
an
investment
in
this
project
through
public
dollars
to
make
this
project
go
for
it
for
affordable
housing.
A
A
Penrose.
When
you
give
me
the
example
of
your
company,
when
you
sell
a
property,
you
said
most
of
the
properties
you've
sold
growing
it
back
into
affordable.
How
are
you
redoing
them
into
affordable
housing
and
when
you
made
those
decisions
to
go
stay
with
affordable
housing
versus
going
and
selling
more
of
the
properties
for
profit?
What's
the
analysis
you
used
to
determine
that.
H
So
it's
it's
based
on
the
situation
and
the
and
the
opportunity.
So
if
there's
I
mean
a
lot
of
cases,
I
mean
just
to
back
to
the
last
set
of
questions
from
from
councilman
or
statements
from
councilman.
We
have
an
investment
in
neighborhood.
We
have
a
nonprofit
partner.
We
have
you
know
some
other
reason
why
it's
really
important
that
needs
to
stay
affordable
and
that
unit
will
say
affordable.
In
the
one
case
where
we
sold
a
development.
A
H
Not
no,
no
I
think
that
the
that
that,
certainly
for
us
and
for
for
other
developers,
were
committed
to
to
doing
affordable
housing
and
it's
hard
to
build
a
business
based
on
hey
in
30
years.
I
might
have
an
opportunity
to
do
something
with
the
property.
That's
that's
not
how
we
work
it
so
much.
You
know
it's
much
more
calculated.
We
want
to
build.
A
H
The
low-income
housing
tax
credit
as
I
mentioned
it's
a
public-private
partnership
and
the
the
key
pieces
of
it
are
a
site
and
a
developer,
so
developer
secures
a
site
and
then
applies
for
tax
credits
and
the
tax
credits
are
allocated
by
a
Housing
Finance
Agency
in
Pennsylvania.
It's
the
pennsylvania,
Housing.
J
A
H
So
the
dollar-for-dollar
it's
a
dollar-for-dollar
reduction
and
it's
typically
purchased
at
a
discount.
So
a
you
know,
the
buyer
of
the
tax
credits
might
pay
ninety
five
cents
for
a
dollars
worth
of
tax
credits
and
the
tax
credits
when
monetized
they
will
provide
something
like
sixty
to
seventy
percent
of
the
equity
needed
to
build
a
project.
So
it's
a
it's
a
significant
resource.
It's
a
scarce
resource.
It's
allocated
to
States
based
on
population,
$2.15
of
tax
credits
are
allocated
per
person
in
a
state
and
there's
a
lot
of
competition.
A
H
H
You
know
there's
frequently
other
dollars
that
are
really
needed
to
help
make
that
that
deal
work,
but
the
you
know
the
the
public
benefit
there
is
that
not
only
getting
a
you
know:
Repub
the
property
and
a
freshening
up,
but
signing
on
to
an
additional
30
years
of
affordability
for
that
property.
Okay,.
H
H
A
J
A
I
She
does
not
have
a
license
for
any
of
her
properties,
no
rental
status,
so
suitability,
we
went
through
court
and
everything
there
was
a
judgment
placed
on
me
because
I
did
lawfully
hold
the
rent
for
two
months
due
to
black
toxic
black
mold.
That
has
made
me
my
fiance,
his
father
and
my
children
sick.
So
my
kids
have
now
they
don't
put
on
asthma
pumps
and
I
have
difficulties
where
I'm
now
seeing
specialists
for
the
all
toxic
black
mold
that
I've
been
breathing
in
for
the
past
four
years.
I
I
never
realized
how
bad
it
was,
and
so
just
recently
so
I
started
to
try
to
do
something
about
it.
So
we
can
maintain
our
health
while
being
in
the
property
and
there's
also
fire
codes
on
the
house.
Now
that
were
just
placed
on
after
we
started
this
process
going
back
and
forth
with
the
with
the
landlord.
The
judge
in
the
case
I
satisfied
the
judgment
that
was
posed
against
me
to
stay
so
that
I
could
stay
in
my
home.
I
The
judge
grants
at
aside
the
judgment
but
denied
me
repossession
of
the
house,
even
though
state
law
says,
if
we
pay
the
judgment,
we
stay
to
this
date
were
still
homeless.
I
have
been
given
list
after
list
after
list
of
places
to
go
for
affordable
housing
and
resources.
I
have
not
been
able
to
help
nowhere.
I
My
concern
here
is
that
the
Reese's
or
the
resources
were
being
told,
are
out
there.
I
don't
seem
to
qualify
for
the
resources,
yet
I
have
nowhere
to
live
I.
Have
nobody
does
willing
to
help
me
I've
been
reaching
out
to
people
I've
been
going
to
places
promised
a
month
now.
I
have
one
week
to
get
my
stuff
out
of
his
house
and
they're,
not
even
letting
me
in
the
house
to
get
my
belongings
I've
been
there
for
over
four
years.
I
have
a
lot
of
stuff
there.
I
I,
don't
know
what
I'm
gonna
do
my
Fiat
and
my
fiance's
father
he's
disabled
he's
and
he's
a
vet
and
he
can't
even
get
us
help.
So
one
of
the
concerns
that
I
have
here
today
that
needs
to
be
addressed,
that
one
of
the
issues
homelessness
in
the
city
is
when
you
are
being
unlawfully
evicted
from
your
home
and
you're
supposed
to
be
served
papers
and
the
Sheriff's
Department
isn't
serving
you,
the
courts
aren't
serving
you
know,
landlords
aren't
serve.
Yet.
Why
is
the
courts
and
the
judges
helping
these
landlords?
I
A
A
J
J
Bennett,
okay,
so
I'm
not
really
actually
opposed
to
the
legislation
and
I
do
believe
that
as
well
and
tend
to
include,
will
prove
to
be
I'm,
beneficial
and
I
do
think
that
this
legislation
should
pass.
However,
I
just
wanted
to
come
and
talk
about
really
shift
in
perspectives
when
we're
talking
about
affordable
housing.
As
this
woman
sitting
next
to
me
just
said,
like
government
subsidized
housing
is
not
affordable,
housing
and
in
it's
the
thing
that
we
cannot
sit
back
and
do
is
allow
a
city
to
be
created.
J
We're
the
only
place
for
a
poor,
low-income
and
middle-income
families
to
live
is
in
government
subsidized
housing
because
not
everybody
qualifies
for
it.
Not
everybody
has
somewhere
to
stay
while
they're
waiting
for
it.
We
have
a
housing
authority
who
I
have
their
eviction
data
from
the
years
2013
to
2018
they're
evicting
between
8,000
to
over
10,000
families
a
year.
So
this
is
10,000
families
a
year
being
evicted
from
public
housing,
so
now
they're
not
going
to
qualify
for
any
other
low-income
housing
program.
So
where,
where
do
people
go?
J
We
can't
keep
only
focusing
on
this
aspect.
We
need
to
incentivize
the
private
landlords
who
are
providing
affordable
housing,
there's,
there's
nothing
for
them
and
they're
being
targeted
by
L&I,
they're,
being
fine,
they're
being
taxed
out,
and
that's
how,
like
the
situation
that
this
woman
is
in,
you
can't
take
your
paycheck
and
find
a
place
to
go
but
sure,
probably
$200
angular
ly
over
the
limits
to
qualify
for
any
of
these
subsidies
in
these
assistances,
and
even
if
you
do
qualify.
J
Where
do
you
go
while
you're
waiting
on
it,
but
we're
not
talking
about
the
housing
authority?
Why
did
why?
Are
we
making
any
legislation
about
this
Housing,
Authority,
they're
selling
and
auctioning
and
trading
and
bartering
and
just
playing
with
the
lives
of
poor
people
in
our
neighborhoods?
They
have
eradicated
affordability
in
North
Philadelphia
in
my
neighborhood
five
years
ago
you
could
come
and
you
could
get
an
apartment
with
your
paycheck.
Now,
there's
there's
nowhere
to
be
afforded
in
North
Philadelphia.
J
They
seize
thirteen
hundred
and
thirty
properties
through
eminent
domain
in
2015,
since
they've
seized
these
properties,
they
have
sold
and
auctioned
off
almost
800
or
dispose
of
other
ways,
properties
that
are
all
within
walking
distance
of
the
land
that
were
seized
through
eminent
domain.
So
when
we're
talking
about
preserving
affordability,
then
we
need
to
talk
about
preserving
affordability
for
folks
who
don't
qualify
for
or
can't
wait
for
public
housing.
J
We
need
to
talk
about
putting
some
accountability
on
this
Housing
Authority,
because
this
Housing
Authority
is
just
selling
everything
off
and
they
don't
care,
and
it's
not
only
affecting
the
people
that
live
in
PHA,
but
it's
also
affecting
affecting
the
people
that
live
outside
of
PHA,
like
how
my
taxes
have
quadrupled
past
four
years.
So
we
can't
just
keep
just
talking
about
this
like
government
subsidized
housing
should
not
be
the
only
affordable
housing.
J
A
A
B
A
Hear
a
second,
it's
been
moved
and
properly
seconded
the
amendment
to
bill
number
one:
nine,
zero,
eight
six
zero
be
approved
all
in
favor,
the
eyes
have
it
and
bill
number
one
908.
Six
here
has
been
amended.
The
chair
again
recognizes
councilmember
Blackwell
for
a
motion
on
the
bills
before
the
committee
today,
Thank.
B
A
Been
moved
in
properly.
Second,
second,
all
in
favor
aye
any
opposed
the
ice
habit
in
bill
number
one:
nine,
zero,
eight
six
zero,
as
amended,
will
be
reported
out
of
committee
with
a
favorable
recommendation
and
with
the
suspension
of
the
rules
so
as
to
follow
first
reading
of
said
bills
at
our
next
session
of
council.
This
concludes
our
public
meeting
and
thank
you
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.