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From YouTube: Committee on Licenses and Inspections 6-23-2020
Description
The Committee on Licenses and Inspections of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Tuesday, June 23, 2020, at 9:30 AM, in a remote manner using Microsoft® Teams to hear testimony on the following item:
200365 An Ordinance amending Chapter 9 2500 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled “Fire Suppression System Workers,” to provide for additional licensing requirements for fire suppression system workers, all under certain terms and conditions.
B
Thank
diluting
everybody
who
is
joining
us
here
today
good
morning,
colleagues
and
good
morning,
city
of
Philadelphia,
welcome
to
the
committee
of
license
and
inspections.
I
understand
that
state
law
currently
requires
that
the
following
announcement
be
made
at
the
beginning
of
every
remote
public
hearing
as
follows.
Due
to
the
current
public
health
emergency
City
Council
member
committees
are
currently
meeting
remotely.
B
We
are
using
Microsoft
teams
to
make
these
remote
hearings
possible
instructions
for
how
the
public
may
be
view
offer
public
testimony
and
public
hearings
of
council
committees
are
included
in
the
public
hearing,
notices
that
are
published
in
The
Daily
News
in
the
ER
and
the
legal
intelligentsia
prior
to
the
hearings,
and
can
also
be
found
on
the
council.
Comm
I
note
that
the
hour
has
come.
Miss
Atwell.
Would
you
please
call
the
hall
to
take
attendance
numbers
that
are
in
attendance?
B
A
A
B
Council,
beginning
chairman,
is
present
so
I
want
to
thank
you
all
a
quorum
of
the
committee
as
president
and
a
hearing
is
now
called
to
order.
This
is
a
public
hearing
of
the
committee
of
license
and
inspections
regarding
bill.
Number
two:
zero:
zero.
Three,
six,
five,
miss
aglow.
Would
you
please
read
the
title
of
the
bill.
A
B
You
miss
out
well
before
we
can.
We
begin
to
hear
the
testimony
from
the
witnesses
we
have
for
today.
Everyone
who
has
been
invited
for
this
meeting
to
testify
be
aware
that
this
is
a
public
hearing
and
it
is
being
recorded
because
the
public
hearing
is
public
to
all
participants
and
viewers.
You
have
no
reasonable.
We
have
no
reasonable
expectation
of
any
kind
of
privacy.
By
continuing
to
be
in
this
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
be
recorded
additionally
prior
to
recognizing
members
for
the
questions
or
comments
they
may
have
for
witnesses.
B
I
will
note
for
the
record
at
this
time
that
we
will
use
the
chat
feature
available
in
Microsoft
Eve's
to
allow
members
to
signify
that
they
wish
to
be
recognized
in
order
to
comply
with
the
Sunshine
Act.
The
chat
feature
must
only
be
used
for
this
purpose.
Miss
Adler.
Would
you
please
call
our
first
panel
or
witness
that
we
have
here
to
testify
this
morning.
E
Good
morning,
chairperson
henan
and
members
of
the
licenses
and
inspections
committee,
my
name
is
Sarah
damo
and
I.
Am
the
legislative
affairs
manager
of
the
department
of
licenses
and
inspections?
I
am
here
to
provide
testimony
on
bill
number
to
0-0
365,
which,
if
enacted,
will
amend
chapter
9,
2,
5,
0
0
of
the
Philadelphia
Code,
entitled
fire
suppression
system
workers
to
provide
for
additional
licensing
requirements
for
fire
suppression
system
workers
under
certain
terms
and
conditions.
E
The
Department
of
licenses
and
inspections
mission
is
to
ensure
that
structures
are
not
only
constructed
in
a
safe
code
compliant
manner,
but
also
that
they
are
maintained
so
that
occupants
of
those
structures
remain
safe.
Long
after
the
construction
is
completed.
One
of
the
greatest
tools
in
building
safety
is
the
fire
suppression
system.
A
fire
suppression
system
is
essential
in
minimizing
the
loss
of
life
in
the
event
of
a
fire.
E
This
bill,
if
enacted,
will
create
three
separate
certification
requirements
for
fire
suppression
system
workers.
The
first
is
fire
suppression
system,
certification,
the
second
specialty
fire
suppression
system,
certification
and
the
third
commercial
kitchen
fire
extinguishing
system
certification.
Each
category
of
fire
suppression
system
worker
has
different
requirements
to
obtain
these
certifications
and
permits
the
workers
perform
different
tasks.
The
fire
suppression
system
certification
is
an
existing
certification
that
is
needed
to
perform
work
on
fire
suppression
systems.
Currently,
this
certification
permits
the
installation,
alteration,
repair,
testing
and
inspection
of
fire
suppression
systems.
E
This
bill
makes
two
changes
to
the
fire
suppression
system
certification.
First,
the
worker,
a
worker
who
only
has
this
certification
is
no
longer
permitted
to
perform
annual
inspections
of
water
based
fire
suppression
systems.
Additionally,
in
order
to
maintain
this
certification,
continuing
credits
must
be
obtained
by
the
worker.
The
bill
also
proposes
to
create
a
new
certification,
specialty
fire
suppression
system
certification.
This
certification
is
required
for
any
individual
who
is
performing
the
annual
inspection
of
water
based
fire
suppression
systems.
E
In
order
to
obtain
a
specialty
fire
suppression
system
certification,
the
fire
suppression
worker
must
obtain
the
asse
1510
water
based
fire
protection
certification
administered
by
the
American
Society
of
sanitation
engineers.
This
training
is
a
rigorous
course
that
provides
both
conceptual
and
hands-on
learning.
The
certification
must
be
renewed
every
three
years,
which
ensures
that
the
fire
suppression
system
workers
are
always
up
to
date
on
advances
in
the
applicable
codes.
Lastly,
the
bill
proposes
the
creation
of
the
commercial
kitchen
fire
suppression
system
certification.
E
This
certification
provides
an
alternative
licensing
requirement
for
those
workers
who
only
perform
commercial
kitchen
extinguishing
work.
The
department
supports
this
bill
and
the
proposed
amendments
we
are
prepared
to
adjust
the
licensing
procedure
should
this
bill
become
law.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
provide
the
department's
testimony
I'm
happy
to
answer
questions
at
this
time.
I.
B
C
E
For
the
most
part,
all
residential
buildings
are
required
to
be
sprinklered.
In
the
majority
of
cases
it
would
be
a
wet
system.
There
are
a
couple
exceptions
where
you
don't
actually
want
a
wet
system,
and
that's
in
like
garages
that
aren't
conditioned.
So
you
don't
want
the
pipes
to
freeze.
However
yeah
the
majority
of
residential
structures,
as
well
as
a
high
percentage
of
commercial
structures,
are
going
to
be
sprinklered
with
these
wet
systems.
So.
C
Mr.
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
paying
close
attention
to
this
issue
as
well
as
your
efforts
to
work
to
codify
I,
will
Illinois
regs
with
the
state
and
when
I
read.
Sometimes
that's
not
the
sexy
lines
up
on
the
front
page
of
the
paper,
but
it's
the
important
work
they
keep
us
safe
and
these
buildings
that
we
travel
in.
So
thank
you
for
that.
Would
you
provide
to
the
chair
the
number
of
buildings
to
your
knowledge?
I.
C
Don't
need
to
start
a
whole
new
department
to
work
on
this
that,
from
your
knowledge
from
when
we
passed
that
law,
how
many
have
complied
the
reason
I
raised
this
mr.
chairman
is
I
have
a
multi-unit
structure
that
actually
has
the
senior
citizen
that
has
taken
all
of
his
time
to
begin
to
comply,
begin
to
comply
and
the
origin
of
this
conversion
was
because
of
injuries
to
firefighters,
first
responders
when
they
went
into
a
dry
system.
C
B
B
E
Forward
sure
the
water
department
actually
requires
a
SSE
certification
for
backflow
workers,
which
is
you
know,
a
device
that
is
used
on
sprinkler
systems,
they're
being
installed
to
keep
the
water
from
from
going
the
opposite
direction
of
the
way
it
should
go.
So
it
is
a
certification
process,
it's
already
used
by
the
city,
and
my
understanding
is
that
it's
one
of
the
more
rigorous
certifications
and
it
not
only
does
it
require
the
person
taking
this
training
to
pass
a
written
test.
E
That's
two
hundred
questions,
but
it
also
provides
hands-on
training
which,
as
far
as
I'm
aware,
it's
the
only
certification
that
would
require
that
hands-on
training.
That
I
think
is
is
crucial
that
employee
or
workers
who
are
doing
this.
This
very
important
work
understand
how
to
do
it.
You
know:
have
a
fire
pump
in
front
of
them
and
understand
how
to
do
the
things
that
they
need
to
do
in
order
to
get
that
fire
pump
to
work
the
way
it
should
for.
B
E
B
The
folks
that
are
installing
any
kind
of
fire
suppression
systems
have
a
license.
Currently,
you
know
within
Department
of
L&I.
Is
that
correct,
correct,
great
I
have
no
further
questions.
Let
me
I
I'm
gonna
check
in
the
chat
lauren
miss
Atwell.
Would
you
be
able
to
check
in
the
chat
and
see
if
anyone
has
any
questions?
No.
D
Floor
Thank
You
mr.
chairman
and
I
guess
this
is
for
Sarah.
We
had
a
conversation
last
week,
Sara
about
the
two
different
certifications
and
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
just
tell
me
that
I
know
I
understand
that
the
certification
that
we're
voting
on
today,
the
a
SSC
is
a
higher
level
of
qualifications
and
the
other
certification
there.
Any
other
major
differences
that
you
see
I
mean
go
ahead
and
these
two
certifications.
D
E
D
D
E
E
Marianne,
who
is
from
asse,
who
will
be
testifying
shortly,
may
be
able
to
provide
more
information
about
how
a
testing
center
become
certified,
but
essentially
any
training
center.
That's
currently
training
people
who
are
doing
this
work
are
able
to
be
certified
from
a
SSE
to
be
able
to
provide
this
training.
D
B
Thank
You
councilmember
and
you
know
I,
want
to
make
note
that
you
know
the
you
know
the
industry
at
large
working
with
the
Department
has
worked
extensively.
You
know
making
sure
that
the
grace
period
and
the
time
you
know
18
months
for
the
further
amendment
is,
you
know
adequate
time
for
adequate
time
for
for
anybody
who
is
looking
for
a
certification
and
it
and
it's
not
exclusive.
B
Alright,
this
is
an
all
inclusive
certification
that
is
in
concert
working
with
the
mission
of
the
Department
of
L&I
and
the
industry
at
large,
making
sure
that
everybody
is
safe.
So
this
isn't
a
union
exclusive.
This
is
and
a
non-union
exclusive.
This
is
a
certification
that
ensures
the
integrity
of
the
systems
that
are
installed
by
professionals
with
experience
is,
is
installing
it
properly,
and
you
know
making
sure
that
you
know
we
are
safe,
especially
this
year
alone.
You
know
we
have
an
uptick
and
ending
fires.
B
B
B
F
F
One
of
my
concerns
were
it's
come
to
my
attention
that,
over
the
last
so
many
years
that
that
a
lot
of
it,
some
of
the
inspections
that
are
being
done,
aren't
done
properly
and
the
thing
is
I
think
that's
the
most
important
component
of
a
sprinkler
system.
To
give
you
an
example
of
some
of
the
issues
that
brought
this
to
our
attention
was
sister
root
systems
not
properly
installed,
one
being
at
5:07.
South
a
street
system
was
installed.
F
F
The
system
was
never
hooked
up
and
the
system
by
meaning
by
was
never
hooked
up
was
the
fire
pump
who's
a
diesel
fire
pump
was
never
hooked
up
and
the
people
in
that
building
were
living
in
there
for
one
year
without
any
protection
that
was
brought
to
the
attention
of
L&I
and
license
and
inspection
went
out
and
did
whatever
they
had
to
do.
I
don't
know
the
end
results,
because
we
don't
get
that
feedback
from
license
and
inspections.
F
That's
one
of
a
number
of
systems
that
were
put
in
incorrectly,
one
being
when
you
bring
a
sprinkler
system
into
any
type
of
building,
whether
it's
residential
or
commercial.
You
need
an
LS,
and
why
valve
you
need
at
least
30
seconds
in
order
to
turn
the
system
off
and
that
system
is
is
controlled
and
it
is
monitored.
F
We've
we've
had
a
number
of
complaints
over
the
last
couple
of
years.
That
systems
were
being
put
in
with
quick
opening
devices.
What
that
means
is
about
that.
All
you
do
is
move
a
handle
and
it
could
be
pumped
and
it
could
be
turned
off
in
a
matter
of
a
second
and
there's
no
form
to
monitor
that
system.
F
F
Evidently,
if
there
was
a
proper
inspection
done,
that
pampers,
which
would
have
been
on
the
valve
and
when
it
was
taken
apart,
it
would
have
sent
signal
to
let
the
people
in
that
building
know
that
the
system
was
that
we
was
turned
off
and
not
in
service.
I
believe-
and
this
is
just
for
my
own
point
of
view-
that
the
system
out
there
was
a
con
different
different
types
of
systems
and
evidently
they
must
have
had
sand
holes
in
the
planks
that
were
putting
alarms
out
and
so
whatever.
F
Whatever
that
we
happened
is
someone
turn
the
system
off
and
the
people
in
that
nursing
home
had
no
protection
and
people
died.
That's
our
concern
in
this
industry
that
gives
a
that
gives
a
black
mark
to
anyone
doing
the
sprinkler
work,
whether
it's
Union
again
or
90.
So
that
was
my
concern
and
that
was
the
start
of
moving
towards
the
ASSA,
because
I've
known
that
that
certification
has
been
out
there.
F
So
with
that
what
we
put
together,
what
we
wanted
to
do
with
the
IHS
see
and
we
contacted
a
line
through
day
hurry
and
Betsy
Portland
and
Elizabeth
always,
and
we
sat
down
with
Dave
and
Elizabeth
and
one
of
the
amendment
to
the
city,
licensing
laws
for
in
stores
and
together
with
Ellen
I.
We
worked
on
that
and
I
said
before:
I
try
to
work
with
Ellen
I
as
a
partnership
and
I
respect
their
knowledge
of
the
situation,
and
with
that,
after
that,
we
put
that
together
and
we
work
out
what
needed
to
be
done.
F
Then
I
went
to
councilman
Heenan
and
asked
him
that
he
would
introduce
it
prior
today.
That's
that's
how
we
work
in
the
sprinkler
industry.
We
did
all
the
respect
to
license
and
inspection
and,
if
place,
an
inspection
isn't
behind.
What's
going
on
that,
doesn't
fare
very
well
for
the
bill
that
you're
going
to
introduce,
but
with
the
respect
I
have
for
Elizabeth
Baldwin.
In
days
we
came
together
and
we
we
felt
that
we
came
up
with
a
very
good
substitute
to
put
in
a
specialty
system
for
spreader
fitters
to
do
testing,
inspection
and
maintenance.
F
Not
all
sprinkler
fitters
do
inspections
in
the
industry.
You
have
guys
that
work
in
construction
that
just
concentrate
on
the
working
construction
and
then
you
have
certain
each
most
companies
service
companies
and
they
provide
a
van
for
for
those
individuals
to
go
around
and
do
inspections.
That's
like
a
spat,
especially
these
guys,
are
involved
in
a
weather
weather
who
you
work
for
that.
That's
something
different!
It's
a
lot
different
to
do
inspections
and
to
install
planking
for
a
construction
job.
So
what
we
wanted
to
do
is
we
wanted
to
upgrade
the
inspection
part
of.
F
The
inspection
of
testing
and
maintenance
inspector
systems
because
they
have
a
lot
of
testing
when
sprinkler
systems
they
have
annually
and
every
five
years
they
have
passed
every
five
years.
The
complete
tests
on
every
single
thing
in
the
building
following
the
fire
pumps,
working
with
the
stand,
pipes,
tripping
and
all
the
different
types
of
systems
that
they
have,
and
that
takes
a
special
skill
for
someone
a
little
bit
higher
than
what
they
do
in
the
construction
industry.
And
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
went
for
this
certification.
B
F
B
G
Yes,
hi,
my
name
is
dawn
sweeten
I'm.
Currently
the
training
coordinator,
mr.
Feder,
is
local
692
I
have
31
years
in
the
industry.
I
currently
sit
on
multiple
committees
and
they
relate
to
this
hearing.
I
am
the
vice
chair
of
the
SSC
15,000
technical
committee,
which
is
a
national
board
and
I
am
the
chairman
of
the
recertification
committee
for
the
assc
15,000,
the
cool
things
that
I
just
wanted
to
provide
and
Wayne
spoke
one
so
putting
it
in
either.
G
Word
layman's
terms,
a
quick
shutoff
valves
that
we
have
come
to
our
attention
that
are
stolen
systems.
So
imagine
you
have
a
key
to
a
card
as
a
two.
They
know
this
expensive
components
and
somebody
install
the
toggle
switch
right
next
to
that.
That
renders
are
useless
so
and
that's
basically,
what
is
going
on
in
some
sprinkler
systems
that
we've
seen
these
quick
shutoff
valves,
they're,
not
supervised
and
when
I
say
supervised.
If
somebody
closes
a
sprinkler
valve
of
the
system,
it's
either
going
to
send
a
signal
to
a
Central
Station.
G
It
informs
the
building
or
in
one
company,
that
the
systems
off,
of
course,
a
speaker
system.
That
has
a
closed
valve
is
a
deadly
combination.
It
won't
work,
and
it's
very
important,
so
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
that
side
of
it.
The
other
side
of
it
is
that
sensing
is
not
a
contractor.
Certification.
Assc
is
asserting
that
the
ASSE
15,000
is
not
a
contractor,
serve
occation,
so
we're
not
certifying
contractors
with
the
certification.
G
They
must
validate
that
they're
able
to
fully
do
the
functions
of
impairment
of
the
sprinkler
system
and
restoration
of
this
purpose
system,
as
well
as
the
testing
components
that
NFPA
requires
in
the
processes
that
have
been
developed
to
establish
the
proper
function
of
all
this
equipment,
nice.
It
does
not
have
any
of
those
components
into
it
and
to
continue
your
nights
at
certification.
All
you
need
to
do
is
attend
some
continuing
education
units
that
can
be
about
the
numbers.
G
Any
area
of
our
protection
doesn't
even
have
to
really
be
specific
to
the
inspection
process,
but
as
long
as
you
keep
maintaining
your
continuing
education
units,
you
can
keep
your
certification,
the
assc.
You
need
to
return
every
three
years.
You
will
get
an
update
when
any
toads
that
have
changed,
which
they
always
are
changing
and
you
need
to
revalidate
your
knowledge
and
you
need
to
revalidate
that
you
are
proficient
in
the
practical
skills
of
the
systems.
G
The
other
thing
counsel
in
Jones,
you
did
ask
in
the
beginning
about
the
2015
law
in
regards
to
drive
systems,
go
into
wet
I.
Just
wanted
to
stress
on
that.
Thank
you
very
questions.
It's
very
important
because
what
it
was
it
was
stamping
systems,
and
that
is
usually
important
to
our
firemen
out
there
every
day,
so
that
that
was
what
that
related
to
resistors.
There
are
a
lot
of
specialty
systems
in
the
city,
philadelphia,
pre-action
systems.
B
This
week,
thank
you
for
your
testimony
before
is
a
committee
for
any
questions,
I'd
like
to
recognize
that
you're
joining
by
council
members
will
it
and
I
also
would
like
to
offer
mine
and
all
of
our
sincere
condolences
for
the
passing
of
your
father,
our
prayers
and
our
thoughts
are
with
you,
Council
Thank
You.
Mr.
F
B
B
They've
been
working
with
the
Department
for
a
year
to
to
fight
for
or
to
see
that
the
department
can
recognize
a
quality,
training
and
inspection
for
our
fire
suppression
sin
the
system-
yes,
okay,
and
where
does
this
apply
so
now
what
gets
tested
in
the
city
when
it
comes
to
fire
suppression
is
a
residential.
Only
is
it
go
homes?
Is
it
commercial
only
or
does
everything
get
tested.
F
Residential
commercial
in
residential,
you
have
three
types
of
systems:
you
have
a
13,
you
have
a
13
or,
and
you
have
a
13
be
13d
system.
Is
the
sprinkler
system
comes
off
the
domestic
water
and
that's
only
a
limited
system
with
a
certain
amount
of
haze
that
does
not
have
an
inspection
to
it.
Okay,
just
the
13
or
residential
and
the
13
are
residential
systems.
B
F
We
already
do
the
inspections
on
the
systems
at
13-13
and
also
commercial
systems.
That's
done
anyway,
and
this
is
nothing
new.
That's
going
to
be
done,
it's
just
creating
an
extra
taking
a
level
of
inspections
up
from
a
regular
sprayer
fitter
to
someone
that
does
this
all
the
time
with
the
certification.
F
All
that
all
the
inspections
will
stay
the
same,
it
do
the
inspections
or
all
the
systems
that
are
required
and,
if
you're,
looking
about
how
many
people
that
we
do
these
affections
right
now,
we
have
I
guess
with
I'd,
say:
they're
100,
maybe
150
people
in
north
of
692
that
do
inspections,
but
that's
not
the
issue.
The
thing
is
is
that
we
have
500
members
here
and
all
the
members
would
that
they,
so
they
chose
to
take
the
certification
and
and
pass
the
certification
that
would
be
another
tool
in
their
quiver
to
get.
F
B
G
Five
seconds-
and
there
was
a
reason
for
that,
but
you
can
call
it
a
water
hammer,
effective
system
by
the
ball.
You
create
a
velocity
water
hammer
as
we
call
it
so
some
of
them
system,
sizes
and
pressure
that
we
sometimes
deal
with
that.
We
have
to
be
careful
there
as
far
as
how
quick
and
slowly
Chloe's
about
so.
We
don't
cause
those
issues
and
a
hammer.
G
So
that's
one
thing
and
that's
the
reason
that
you
can't
use
quick
opening
valves
unless
it
is
on
a
13
D
system
which
is
and
in
the
comparing
the
areas
where
we
found
these.
That
wasn't
the
case.
The
second
thing
is
all
valves
in
on
a
sprinkler
system
that
are
related
to
supply
or
indicating,
which
means
you
can.
G
G
G
G
B
H
Name
is
Maryann
Waichman,
I'm,
ISS,
International,
Emmy,
professional
qualifications,
director
for
ISS
International
and
as
people
have
mentioned
before,
we
are
the
third
party
certifier
who
will
certify
these
fires
protection
specialists.
If
this
bill
is
passed
so
ASSE
is
a
standards
developer
and
we're
a
third
party
certifier.
H
The
certification
for
this
specialist
would
be
the
assi,
admiral,
ansi,
professional
qualification
standard
for
inspection,
testing
and
maintenance,
water-based
fire
protection
systems.
What
we're
calling
the
ASSE
1510?
We
developed
the
standard
over
the
course
of
many
years,
but
it
was
finally
completed
in
2015.
H
These
take
these
take
a
while
to
to
complete
and-
and
we
began
certifying
to
it
a
few
years
later,
we
have
now
been
certifying
to
this
standard
for
approximately
two
and
a
half
years.
We
are
an
a
SSE.
Is
an
ANSI
approved
standards
developer.
We
develop
standards
under
the
ANSI
process,
the
same
as
NFPA,
who
writes
all
of
the
fire
code
standards
that
people
are
are
complying
with
NSF
and,
and
you
will
ASSA
develops
our
standards
under
that
process.
H
H
It
is
and-
and
it
you
know,
the
process
was
long
to
bring
her
about
and-
and
it
came
about
because,
as
do
all
of
our
standards,
because
the
industry
asked
that
we
develop
a
standard,
they
recognized
a
need,
and
so
we
filled
that
need
by
developing
a
standard,
and
this
is
this-
is
these?
Are
life
safety
systems,
the
qualification
of
the
person
doing
this
makes
a
difference
and
they
will
save
lives
and
property
as
a
result
of
doing
it
correctly
and
in
fact,
lives
and
property
can
be
lost
or
damaged.
H
If
it's
not
done
correctly
and
that's
why
this
this
standard
was
developed
and
again,
I
say
that
it
was
developed
under
a
process
where
we
have
consensus
coming
from
from
throughout
the
industry,
and
that
industry
includes
certainly
people
that
are
that
are
installing
inspecting
and
testing
fire
suppression
systems.
The
sprinkler
fitters,
but
it
also
includes
the
engineers
on
these
systems,
and
it
includes
fire
marshals
that
are
involved,
and
so
we
work
together
in
the
development,
and
we
also
have
people
to
each
of
those
categories
on
our
technical
committees
to
maintain
this
so
I.
H
Just
we
just
want
to
kind
of
bring
this
to
you
and
have
you
understand
who
a
is
to
see
is
and
answer
any
of
your
questions
about
this,
but
we
also
want
you
to
recognize
that
we
are
certainly
not
new
to
standards.
Development
I
know
the
Chairman
mentioned
about
about
asse
being
involved
with
backflow
protection
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia.
In
fact,
I
was
not
11
years
old,
20
years.
F
H
So
it's
it's
I,
looked
up
the
numbers
and-
and
there
are
over
4,000
backflow
testers
in
the
state
of
Pennsylvania
alone
and
for
the
most
part
we
have
about
half
of
our
testers
are
Union
and
or
non-union
it's
a
pretty
close
to
a
50-50
split,
so
we're
hoping
that
the
same
will
come
true
at
the
1510
as
it
becomes
a
part
of
what's
happening
in
the
city
of
Philadelphia.
So
I
just
wanted
to
bring
that
to
you.
Asse
does
not
do
any
training
at
all.
H
Checking
on
is
that
they
have
the
facilities
available
to
do
proper
training
that
they
have
the
equipment
available.
We
don't
want
people
to
be
looking
at
a
video
about
what
a
Calif
I
bump
works
or
how
an
alarm
panel
works.
They
actually
have
to
have
this
equipment
available
at
their
facility
so
that
they
can
teach
to
it
and
on
it.
So
we
look
at
that
and
we're
also
looking
that
they
have
a
curriculum,
prepared
and
training
materials
prepared,
so
that
the
individuals
who
take
a
course
facility
have
the
ability
to
pass
the
exam.
H
We
don't
think
that's
fair
for
them
for
anybody
to
bring
in
someone
and
train
them
if
they
are
not
trying
to
be
successful.
In
passing
this
certification
exam
I
know,
people
have
done
that
a
good
job
of
pointing
out
the
differences
of
what
what
our
certification
is
from
some
other
certifications.
Certainly
a
major
factor
is
that
hands-on
component
to
it
not
only
are
is
the
dursa
training
course
involve
hands-on
experience,
but
so
does
the
exam.
So
that's
a
200
question
code
based
exam
and
codes.
H
Don
was
talking
about
about
the
different
14
or
13
d13.
Those
are
all
NFA
codes,
okay
and-
and
we
make
sure
that
the
exam
that
we
give
at
the
conclusion.
That,
of
course,
is
completely
code
based
and
that
they'll
understand
how
to
look
up
the
codes
and
what
those
codes
are,
because,
when
they're
out
in
the
field,
they
should
be
talking
code
when
they
are
in
a
fiscally
talking
to
the
owner
of
that
facility.
H
Now
I
don't
want
to
sugarcoat
it,
they
need
to
meet
the
requirements.
No,
you
know
and
that's
a
stringent
standard
does
that's.
What
a
standard
does
is.
Is
we're
not
making
just
decisions
on
oh
yeah,
we'll
let
you
and
we
won't.
Let
you
we
follow
the
rules
kind
of
standard
and
we
follow
the
rules
equally
for
everybody.
Well,.
B
Thank
you
for
that,
because
I've
been
frightened
for
that,
and
you
know
when
there's
double
standards,
it's
just
unfair.
So
it's
not
apples
to
apples
all
the
time.
So
everybody
does
have
the
opportunity
yes
and
as
long
as
they
need
this,
the
same
standards-
and
you
know,
as
somebody
who
sat
on
coke
panels
like
myself
and
I've-
had
some
experience
or
a
codes
are
written
because
something
went
wrong
all
right
either
somebody
had
perished
right
or
somebody.
There
was
a
catastrophe
or
a
disaster
because
of
some
sort
of
installation
or
manufacturing
defect
as
well.
B
As
you
know,
new
materials,
so
codes
are
important.
Councilman
Jones
had
mentioned
that
this
is
not
a
sexy
or
glamorous
type
of
conversation,
but
it
is
so
critical
and
important.
All
right
for
for
people
and
and
codes
are
that
Alright
codes
actually
do
that
so
I'm
gonna.
Thank
you
for
that
I
believe
we
have
I'm
gonna
check
or
members
council
member
Baum
I'd
like
to
like
to
recognize
you
for
questions.
Thank.
D
H
So
yeah,
let
me
let
me
address
that
a
little
bit,
so
it
is
a
relatively
new
certification.
It
is
has
been
its
approved
under
legislation
in
the
states
of
Illinois
and
the
state
of
Washington.
So
it's
on
a
statewide
basis,
not
just
in
the
it
has
been
approved
as
one
of
the
options
for
certification
in
those
two
states
and
we
are
working
on
additional
adoption
in
other
locations.
But
but
it's
as
you
know,
code
adoption,
standard
adoption
is
a
slow
process
and
we're
working
towards
that.
So.
D
D
B
Thank
You
council
never
appreciate
your
line
of
questioning
as
always,
vocal
and
any
other
members
of
the
committee
have
any
questions
for
this.
Witness
Marian
I
appreciate
your
time.
Thank
you.
You
could
hang
in
to
the
end
of
this
hearing
for
the
first
date
in
case
any
other
questions
arise
through
other
testimony
and
that
would
be
all
for
today.
So
Sam
has
the
mone
miss
Atwell.
Could
you
please
read
the
name
of
our
next
witness
John.
A
I
Thank
You
chairman
Hayden,
for
the
opportunity
to
testify
the
layout
installation,
inspection
and
testing
of
life
safety.
Fire
protection
equipment
has
the
complexity
of
medicine.
I.
Do
not
object
to
this
bill,
but
I
do
not
believe
this
bill
will
improve
public
safety.
I
believe
that
raising
the
standards
by
which
fire
suppression
contractor
licences
are
awarded
is
the
only
way
to
improve
public
safety.
I
began
work
me
in
the
industry
and
then
in
78.
My
first
job
was
operating
to
latest
machines.
I
Simultaneously
fabricating
system
pipe
I
went
into
business
for
myself
in
1991,
I
personally,
sell
layout,
install
repair,
inspect
and
test
water
based
fire
protection,
sprinkler
systems
and
some
special
hazard
systems.
I
have
nice
at
level,
4,
certification
and
water
based
systems
layout,
nice
and
level,
3
certification
and
inspection
and
testing
of
water
based
systems,
nice
at
level,
2,
certification
and
special
hazards.
I
I
have
backflow
prevention,
assembly,
certifications
from
the
New
England
Water,
Works
Association,
and
the
assc
I
emotion,
30,
construction
safety,
certified
I,
have
licenses
to
lay
out
and
install
fire
protection
systems
in
the
states
of
Maryland
Delaware
and
New
Jersey.
The
tipping
point
for
my
advocacy
came
in
2010
when
to
property
owners
asked
me
to
submit
fence
inspection
reports.
I
I
Sadly,
too
many
fire
protection
professionals
fail
to
keep
abreast
of
current
NFPA
standards
and
fire
codes.
I
have
witnessed
dozens
of
new
fire
protection
equipment
installations
that
do
not
meet
NFPA
standards
and
will
not
perform
as
expected.
They
will
not
perform
at
all
wherein
paint
air,
disabled
and
out
of
service
without
the
property
owner's
knowledge,
blacked
required
test
equipment
and
could
not
be
tested
or
lacked
other
required
equipment
malfunctioned
and
caused
property
damage.
These
violations
of
NFPA
standards
were
the
result
of
negligence
on
the
part
of
confident
and
unqualified
people.
I
I
have
witnessed
other
installations
that
in
no
way
resembled
the
approved
drawings.
These
violations
were
the
result
of
intentional
and
willful
fraud
by
those
who
I
consider
criminals.
This
bill
fails
to
address
the
layout
and
installation
of
fire
protection
equipment.
The
root
cause
of
the
harm
I
described
above
contractors,
not
engineering
firms,
are
laying
out
the
lion's
share
of
new
fire
protection
equipment
installations.
Too
many
fire
protection.
Contracting
companies
fail
to
directly
important
anyone
with
the
technical
knowledge
to
lay
out
fire
protection
equipment.
I
These
companies
hire
freelance
technicians
to
create
the
necessary
technical
drawings
and
hydraulic
calculations
for
the
acquisition
of
a
building
permit.
In
some
cases,
the
company
ignores
the
layout
and
calculations
and
installs
smaller,
pipe
or
fewer
sprinklers.
The
freelance
technicians
are
never
invited
to
inspect
the
systems
that
they
were
involved
with.
These
companies
have
no
quality
control
mechanisms
whatsoever.
These
companies
have
invited
Council
to
impose
mechanisms
to
ensure
compliance
with
NFPA
standards
in
the
60s
and
70s
fire
protection.
Laya
have
three
levels
of
scrutiny.
I
First,
the
insurance
companies
conducted
a
plan
review
and
commissioning
of
new
systems.
Almost
every
insurance
company
had
higher
more
stringent
standards
than
NFPA
second,
most
property
owners
hired
engineers
to
actually
lay
out
the
equipment,
or
at
least
oversee
the
layout
and
installation
of
new
systems.
These
engineers
also
conducted
plan
reviews
routine
inspections
as
well,
progressed
and
took
part
in
commissioning
new
systems.
Third
IH
J's
perform
plan,
reviews
and
inspection
today,
unfortunately,
most
insurance
companies
abandoned
abandoned
their
standards
and
very
few
private
properties,
submit
drawings
and
calculations
to
insurance
companies
for
review
and
approval.
I
Only
government,
property
owners
and
private
owners
of
very
large
buildings
routinely
hire
third
party
engineers
to
oversee
the
layout
and
installation
of
new
systems.
In
most
private
sector
construction,
the
layout
of
fire
protection
is
placed
on
the
contracting
company
and
the
only
scrutiny
of
the
weather
and
installation
of
new
systems
is
by
the
ahj
in
most
municipalities,
but
not
all
qualified
engineers
make
plan,
reviews
and
issue
building
permits
that
do
not
visit
job
sites
to
confirm
that
the
installed
system
matches
the
approved
drawings,
site
visits
and
commissioning
of
wife
safety.
I
Fire
protection
equipment
is
pushed
off
to
building
inspectors
who,
with
all
due
respect,
are
not
trained
in
the
science
of
fire
protection
and
not
qualified
to
inspect
our
protection
equipment.
Earthly
friends
there's
a
light
hat
and
ordinary
hazard.
One
institutional
use
facility
protected
at
two
water-based
webpart
wet
fire
protection,
sprinkler
systems
and
two
water-based
dry
pipe
fire
protection,
sprinkler
systems,
the
personal
care
unit
designed
violated,
NFPA
13
requirements
for
design
density
and
size
of
hydraulic
design
area
and
failed
to
protect
small
closets.
I
In
short,
the
pipe
sizing
for
three
of
the
four
systems
was
too
small
to
deliver
the
required
water,
a
woefully
inadequate,
one-inch
main
supply,
pipe
supply,
278
sprinklers
in
the
personal
care
unit,
a
fire
originating
in
the
personal
care
unit
or
in
any
addict
most
likely
would
have
overwhelmed
the
fire
protection
equipment
resulting
in
the
total
loss
of
the
building
and
a
threat
to
life
in
or
elderly
people
died
in
that
building
in
Philadelphia,
36
North.
Third
Street
is
a
four
story.
I
Light
has
a
mixed-use
facility
protected
by
a
water-based
wet
pipe
fire
protection,
sprinkler
system
manual,
standpipe
and
electric
fire
pump
after
a
fire
in
this
building,
I
was
asked
to
replace
a
few
sprinkler
and
returned
the
system
to
service
now
I
was
working.
The
property
owner
asked
me
to
certify
the
system.
I
could
not
certify
the
system
because
the
fire
pump
was
disabled
and
taken
out
of
service.
Standpipe
violated
several
NFPA
14
requirements.
I
Mechanical
closets
and
washer/dryer
closets
were
not
protected
by
sprinklers,
in
violation
of
NFPA
thirteen
are
and
no
backflow
prevention.
Assembly
existed.
I
subsequently
learned
that
the
standpipe
was
installed
without
a
proper
permit
property
owner
attempted
to
bribe
me
to
certify
the
system.
In
addition,
I
witnessed
what
appeared
to
be
a
bribe
of
the
fire
alarm
system
worker
every
certification.
This
property
is
suspect.
I
Safeguard
self
storage
in
philly
is
a
three-story
ordinary
hazard
group.
One
self
storage
facility
protected
by
a
water-based,
wet
pipe
fire
protection
system.
On
the
second
floor
of
the
contractor
installed
sprinklers
at
four
hundred
square
feet,
double
the
spacing
that
was
approved.
In
other
words,
the
contractor
installed
only
half
of
the
required
sprinklers
standard
coverage.
Sprinklers
were
installed,
not
the
required,
approved
and
appropriate
ul
listed
extended
coverage.
Sprinklers
foreign
ceiling
obstructions
to
the
sprinkler
spray
patterns
were
present.
I
This
system
will
not
perform
as
expected,
installing
only
half
of
the
approved
sprinklers
constitutes
afford,
in
my
opinion,
rusty
hospice
on
13th
Street,
there's
a
four-story
light
hazard
resident
residential
facility
for
homeless
women
protected
by
a
water-based
wet
pipe
fire
protection,
sprinkler
system
and
electric
fire
club.
The
owner
asked
to
inspect
and
test
the
backflow
prevention
assembly,
wherein
I
discovered
a
closed
gate
valve
in
the
street.
The
system
had
no
water
supply.
I
B
Mr.
mr.
boilie,
yes
is
bobby
heenan
and
we
do
have
your
your
testimony
in
writing
and
you've
submitted
to
all
all
members,
and
it
is
submitted
to
the
record
for
the
record.
Just
just
so.
You
know
we
can
be
able
to
summarize
the
remainder
of
your
testimony,
because
I
know
it
is
quite
lengthy
and
it
is
important
because
you're,
you
know
you're,
actually
you
know
giving
credence
to
you
know
properly
trained
installation
and
inspection.
So
if
you
can
summarize
that
the
remaining
part
of
your
testimony
we'd
appreciate
it.
Thank
you.
Yes,
sir.
My.
I
Pleasure
I
said
only
requires
two
years
of
relevant
work
experience
to
be
awarded
level
to
five
years
for
level
three
10
years
for
level
four,
requiring
only
two
years
of
relevant
work.
Experience
for
an
individual
who
designs
fire
protection
equipment
is
simply
not
adequate
to
become
knowledgeable
enough
to
assure
that
the
layout
and
installation
of
life
safety,
fire
protection
equipment
is
correct.
An
adequate
licensing
law
must
require
the
direct
employment
of
at
least
one
individual
with
the
appropriate
nice
level.
I
Three
certification
and
water
based
systems
layout
for
special
hazards,
the
direct
employment
of
an
individual
with
nice
at
level,
2
certification
in
the
discipline
of
inspection
and
testing
of
water
based
systems.
All
new
systems
must
be
certified
by
a
compliance
agent,
nice,
a
certified
level
4
in
the
appropriate
discipline
or
a
PE
that
the
new
equipment
is
in
fact
installed
pursuant
to
the
approved
technical
drawings--
in
hydraulic
calculations,
a
plan
reviewed
by
nice
at
level
or
in
the
approach,
discipline
or
a
PE
requiring
that
license.
I
Company
employee,
at
least
one
person
with
five
years
of
relevant
experiences
reasonable.
The
administration
of
the
law
should
require
that
the
compliance
agent
swear
an
affidavit
that
he
or
she
will
never
knowingly
approve
a
new
system
that
departs
materially
from
the
approved
drawings,
documentation.
I
The
approval
of
the
new
system
on
an
appropriate
material
and
test
certificate,
above-ground
piping,
stand
pipe
fire
pot,
underground,
etc,
maintenance
of
public
liability
and
errors
and
omissions,
insurance,
notifying
the
license
and
inspections
if
a
violation
of
NFPA
standards
or
fire
codes
has
been
approved.
Mr.
B
Thank
you
again
for
taking
your
time
out
and
this
important
public
safety
issue
or
there
any
other
members
have
any
questions
or
are
there
members
that
have
any
questions
or
for
this
witness
John.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
your
time,
I
have
is
Sarah
still
on
the
line
that
just
have
one
quick
question
and
we're
going
to
we're
going
to
move
to
into
our
public
hearing.
Yes,.
B
Said
just
quick
question
third
party
inspections
and
or
third
parties
in
general,
with
the
Department.
That
is
not
uncommon.
That
is
something
that
you,
you
know.
It
has
a
wide
range
from
bouncer
training
to
I'm
going
to
say
you
know
if
this
bill
passes,
it
would
be,
for
you
know,
from
fire
suppression
in
other
other
third
parties.
Is
that
correct
absolutely.
E
It's
it's
not
uncommon.
We
frequently
use
third
party
inspectors
for
special
inspections
for
plumbing
inspections,
things
that
really
our
inspectors
are
not
don't,
have
the
special
knowledge
required
to
complete
an
inspection
for
those
things,
so
things
such
as
underpinning-
we
always
require
third-party
inspector
for
that.
So
this
would
would
line
up
with
existing
procedures
that
the
department
already
has
unless.
B
B
B
So
this
will
conclude
the
hearing
and
we
will
not
go
into
a
public
meeting
since
there
are
no
other
questions
from
members
of
this
committee.
No
other
witnesses
to
testify
I
will
ask
that
if
there
is
anyone
else
present
in
the
hearing,
who's
named
about
the
fall
and
then
they
wish
to
the
hall
for
testimony
now's
the
time
to
do
so.
B
Hearing
one
I
want
to
thank
all
of
the
panelists
again
and
the
witnesses
were
support
dissipation.
Today
we
absolutely
value
your
opinion.
Your
expertise,
I
now
invite
all
panels
of
witnesses
to
leave
and
disconnect
from
this
public
hearing
before
we
go
into
a
public
meeting.
I
will
now
go
into
applause
proceedings
briefly,
so
the
multiple
participants
have
the
opportunity
to
leave.
B
B
Can
you
repeat
that
you
did
just
start
great?
So
this
concludes
the
public
hearing
of
the
committee.
We
will
now
go
into
a
public
meeting
to
consider
the
action
to
be
taken
on
the
bills
before
in
this
bill
before
us
today.
The
chair
recognizes
councilmember
thon
for
emotion
on
the
amendment
to
bill
number:
two:
zero,
zero:
three
six,
five
Thank.
D
B
The
chair
notes
for
the
record:
they,
who
was
on
the
record
for
a
second
in
emotion,
Johnson
and
Johnson,
councilman
Johnson
as
a
second
old
emotion,
it
has
been
moved
and
properly
second,
that
the
amendment
to
bill
number
two:
zero,
zero,
three,
six,
five
two!
You
approve
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye,.
B
D
B
It
has
been
that's
a
record
reflect
that
it
has
been
second
by
councilmember
Gilmore
Richardson
Thank,
You
Councilwoman.
It
has
been
second
now
that
has
been
both
properly.
Second,
that
the
fill
to
zero
zero.
Three
six,
five.
There's
a
band
of
you
reports
on
this
committee
with
a
favorable
recommendation
and
further
movement,
the
rule
so
council
be
suspended
to
forbid
first
reading
of
this
silver
next
session
of
council,
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
those
opposed
the
ice
habit.
B
The
motion
carries
this
will
conclude
the
business
before
the
committee
of
license
and
inspection
I
want
to
thank
all
the
members
for
your
time
and
your
due
diligence
into
this
and
to
this
important
policy
and
I
want
to
thank
all
those
who
testify
and
I
fail
to
mention.
I
want
to
thank
the
industry.