►
From YouTube: Committee on Public Safety 11-23-2020
Description
The Committee on Public Safety of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Monday, November 23, 2020, at 9:30 AM, in a remote manner using Microsoft® Teams to hear testimony on the following items:
200479 An Ordinance amending Chapter 9 3500 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled “Fair Criminal Record Screening Standards,” by amending definitions, revising restrictions, and amending and clarifying remedies, all under certain terms and conditions.
200593 An Ordinance amending Chapter 10 2000 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled “Use of Three Dimensional Printer to Manufacture Firearms,” to change the Chapter title, to add definitions, to add additional prohibitions on use of three dimensional printers, to impose prohibitions relating to the transfer, use, or conversion of unfinished firearms and certain equipment, the manufacture of firearms, and to prescribe additional penalties for violations of this Chapter; all under certain terms and conditions.
C
D
D
Everyone
who
has
been
invited
to
the
meeting
today
to
testify
should
be
aware
that
this
hearing
is
being
reported,
because
this
hearing
is
public
participants
and
viewers
have
no
reasonable
expectation
of
privacy.
By
continuing
to
be
in
this
meeting,
you
are
consenting
to
being
reported
additionally
prior
to
councilman
jones,
recognizing
members
for
questions
or
comments
they
have
for
witnesses.
D
B
D
D
C
E
B
D
Bill
number
200479,
an
ordinance
amending
chapter,
9
3500
of
the
philadelphia
code
entitled
fair
criminal
record
screening
standards
by
amending
definitions,
revising
restrictions
and
amending
and
clarifying
remedies
all
under
certain
terms
and
conditions,
and
bill
number
200593.
An
ordinance
amending
chapter
10
2000
of
the
philadelphia
code
entitled
use
of
three-dimensional
printer
to
manufacture
firearms
to
change.
D
The
chapter
title
to
add
definitions,
to
add
additional
prohibitions
on
use
of
three-dimensional
printers,
to
impose
prohibitions
relating
to
the
transfer,
use
or
conversion
of
unfinished
firearms
and
certain
equipment
to
manufacture
firearms
and
to
prescribe
additional
penalties
for
violations
of
this
chapter.
All
under
certain
terms
and
conditions.
B
Thank
you
again
before
we
get
started.
I'd
like
to
give
myself
and
the
author
of
the
second
bill
to
be
considered
an
opportunity
for
opening
statements
and
any
other
members
of
the
committee
that
wish
to
do
so
as
well.
This
fair
chance
hiring
bill
which
is
affectionately
known
as
ban
the
box
is
the
evolution
of
a
bill
that
was
introduced
by
member
miller
in
2012..
B
Those
updates
prove
to
be
useful.
Not
only
to
the
intended
members
of
society
in
our
workforce,
but
to
the
business
community,
no,
the
sky
did
not
fall.
No,
there
weren't
horrific
stories
of
of
problems
when
it
came
to
considering
those
who
were
turning
to
society,
and
we
were
able
to
upgrade
those
van
the
box
things
to
help
to
combat
the
fact
that
we
are
the
poorest
city,
one
of
the
poorest
big
cities
in
the
country.
B
If
you
were
applying
for
a
a
position
before
you
were
summarily
judged
by
your
past,
people
were
given
an
opportunity
to
be
evaluated
on
the
current
merits
of
their
application,
but
the
person
that
was
already
employed,
the
person
who
was
gainfully
employed
for
a
time
did
not
get
that
same
courtesy.
So
when
a
company
was
purchased
and
that
company
decided
to
run
everybody
through,
they
found
old
convictions,
old
offenses
that
people
had
and
then
they,
after
all,
the
years
of
of
successful
employment
were
asked
to
leave.
B
These
are
real
stories
from
real
people,
some
of
whom
I
had
opportunity
to
meet.
Some
of
you,
whom
you
will
hear
from
today,
I
have
one
individual
who
remember
johnson
will
understand,
was
a
real
guy
and
all
that
comes
with
it.
He
did
his
time
came
home
and
decided
to
be
a
real
citizen
and
he
started
a
family.
He
went
to
work,
he
really
changed
his
life.
B
F
F
We
all
know
that
we're
fighting
on
an
uphill
battle
around
this
issue
of
gun
violence
or
we
are
surpassing
historical
levels
that
relates
to
the
number
of
homicides
that
are
taking
place
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
400
plus
murders,
2,
000,
plus
shootings,
and
so
we
need
to
do
everything
that
we
can
possible
and
look
at
all
the
tools
in
our
toolbox
to
address
this
issue
of
gun
violence.
So
one
key
issue
is
the
flowing
of
illegal
guns
in
the
streets
of
philadelphia.
F
B
B
G
We
appreciate
the
cooperation
we've
received
from
the
members
of
the
business
community
over
the
years
to
implement
these
rules
so
that
everyone
has
a
fair
chance
at
employment
as
a
refresher.
Under
the
current
fair
chance
hiring
law,
an
employer
is
prohibited
from
running
a
criminal
background
check
until
after
the
applicant
receives
a
conditional
offer
of
employment.
G
If,
through
a
background
check
an
employer
discovers
that
an
applicant
has
a
criminal
history,
the
employer
must
conduct
an
individ
individualized
assessment
of
the
applicant
for
the
particular
job.
Instead
of
being
summarily
rejected
for
employment,
the
employer
may
reject
an
applicant
based
on
their
criminal
record
after
that
assessment.
Only
if
the
employer
can
reasonably
conclude
that
the
applicant
would
present
an
unacceptable,
unacceptable
risk
to
the
operation
in
the
business
or
to
co-workers
or
customers.
G
A
rejection
must
be
presented
to
the
applicant
in
writing
with
an
opportunity
for
the
applicant
to
respond
to
the
determination.
The
proposed
legislation
amends
the
definition
of
employee
to
include
independent
contractors,
transportation,
network
drivers,
ride,
share
drivers
and
gig
economy
workers.
It
also
expands
the
definition
of
employer
to
include
third
parties
that
facilitate
the
relationship
of
work
for
pay
between
two
parties.
G
The
bill
also
expands
the
definition
of
employment
process
to
include
the
re-employment
of
people,
which
would
cover
situations
such
as
current
employees,
who
receive
an
internal
promotion
or
employees
who
are
reassessed
after
one
company
acquires
another
significantly.
The
bill
expands
how
employers
must
handle
pending
criminal
charges,
accusations
that
a
person
has
committed
a
crime
through
formal
charges,
an
arrest
or
other
information
where
there
has
not
yet
been
a
final
determination
on
the
matter.
G
In
those
situations,
an
employer
may
make
an
inquiry
or
require
an
employee
to
respond
to
an
inquiry
inquiry
only
when
the
employer
has
reasonably
reliable
information
to
indicate
the
pending
charge
relates
to
the
particular
duties
of
the
job
and
consistent
with
current
law.
Employers
may
only
take
adverse
action
against
that
employee
if
the
offense
in
the
pending
charge
presents
an
unacceptable
risk
to
the
operation
of
the
business
co-workers
or
customers,
and
that
is
compelled
by
the
business
necessity.
G
Finally,
the
proposed
legislation
clarifies
that
employers
who
are
required
to
conduct
certain
criminal
background
checks
under
state
or
federal
law
may
only
make
those
inquiries
after
a
conditional
offer
of
employment
has
been
given
to.
The
applicant
is
important
to
emphasize
that
the
current
law
has
consistently
allowed
an
employer
to
inform
applicants
of
its
intent
to
conduct
a
criminal
background
check
after
conditional
offer
is
made,
provided
that
its
notice
is
concise,
accurate
made
in
good
faith
and
states
that
any
consideration
of
the
background
check
will
be
tailored
to
the
requirements
of
the
job.
G
As
we
know,
the
law,
a
law
is
only
as
effective
as
there
are
practical
enforcement
mechanisms.
The
current
law
has
penalties
consistent
with
the
fair
practices
ordinance,
including
injunctive
relief
and
payment
of
compensatory
damages,
but
it
has
weak
penalties
for
non-compliance.
A
two
thousand
dollar
fine
that
is
paid
to
the
city,
not
the
complaint.
The
proposed
legislation
allows
for
liquidated
damages
equal
to
the
payment
of
the
maximum
one
month,
salary
the
job
not
to
exceed
five
thousand
dollars
bill.
G
200
479
will
remove
additional
barriers
to
employment
and
provide
assistance
to
people
with
criminal
accusations
or
records
as
they
obtain
or
maintain
jobs,
to
help
them
succeed
and
for
all
of
us
to
build
stronger
communities
and
neighborhoods.
The
new
legislation
also
will
provide
greater
clarity
and
guidance
to
employers.
The
economic
success.
Success
of
our
city
is
inextricably
linked
to
the
ability
of
our
residents
with
criminal
accusations
or
records
to
obtain
and
maintain
employment.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
testify.
I
can
answer
any
questions.
B
H
Thank
you
good
morning,
chairman.
Can
everyone
hear
me
yes,
great
good
morning,
councilman,
chairman
jones
and
and
members
of
the
committee?
My
name
is
brendan
lynch,
I'm
an
attorney
with
the
employment
unit
at
community
legal
services,
and
I'm
here
today
to
testify,
in
favor
of
the
amendment,
to
strengthen
the
ban,
the
box
ordinance.
H
However,
it's
also
become
evident.
The
ordinance
has
certain
areas
in
which
it
could
be
is
open
to
interpretation
as
as
being
ambiguous
or
where
it
leaves
loopholes
that
make
it
less
strong
than
it
could
be,
and
so
I'm
urging
council
to
adopt
this
amendment,
which
will
strengthen
and
improve
ban
the
box
in
a
few
particular
ways
that
especially
concerns
our
office
number
one.
H
H
Pennsylvania
courts
have
read
a
similar
state
statute,
a
very
under
enforced,
not
very
widely
known
statute
very
literally,
and
that
statute,
likewise
does
not,
by
its
terms,
applied
to
current
employees
and
and
courts,
have
consistently
said
that.
Therefore,
it
does
not,
and
so
the
law's
protections
don't
cover
current
employees
due
to
the
lack
of
explicit
inclusion.
H
It
is
actually
not
uncommon
for
long-time
employees
to
lose
jobs
due
to
old
criminal
records
either
because
their
employers
were
taken
over
by
new
companies
or
because
they
were
considered
for
promotion
and
new
background
checks
were
done
and,
in
particular
the
expanded
background
checks
that
are
now
required
under
the
pennsylvania.
Child
protected
services
law
have
placed
the
jobs
of
many
long-time
employees
at
risk,
even
though
they
would
be
eligible
to
remain
employed
if
their
protections
have
banned
the
box
applied
to
them.
H
So
just
as
an
example
under
the
current
text
of
the
ordinance
and
applicant
cannot
be
denied
a
job
based
on
a
conviction
or
a
period
of
incarceration,
which
is
more
than
seven
years
in
the
past.
But
if
a
person
who
has
a
decade-old
conviction
is
offered
the
job
and
begins
work
since
they
can't
be
denied
it
on
the
basis
of
that
decade-old
conviction
and
then
a
new
background
check,
we're
done
six
months
or
a
year
later,
perhaps
because
another
company
bought
out
that
that
smaller
company
or
because
the
law
state
law
perhaps
required.
H
H
The
second
big
change
I
wanted
to
mention
was
broadening
the
employer,
the
definition
of
employer
employment
opportunities,
as
most
of
us
are
aware,
the
employment
landscape
has
changed
a
lot
in
the
last
nine
years,
and
many
more
workers,
including
here
in
philadelphia,
are
now
classified
as
independent
contractors
and
gig
works,
such
as
ride
shares
and
online
taskrabbit
work
has
increasingly
replaced
or
complemented
traditional
employment.
At
the
same
time,
technology
has
facilitated
the
increase
of
online
employment,
connectors
and
facilitators.
H
H
I
think
it
is
entirely
appropriate
to
include
these
employers.
I
I
would
mention
that
the
the
the
ban
the
box
currently
covers
employment
agencies
and
specifies
that
that
includes
job
placement
and
referral
agencies.
So
when
there
is
an
entity
that
could
be
viewed
as
a
third
party
that
is
involved
in
making
a
referral
of
a
worker
and
that
third
party
is
conducting
the
background
check
the
intent
of
ban
the
box.
All
along
has
been
to
cover
those
types
of
entities.
H
But
the
the
essence
of
the
issue
that
the
box
is
trying
to
address
is
that
when
there
is
an
entity
that
is
able
to
use
its
power
to
review
a
job
seekers
record
and
to
ex
potentially
exclude
that
job
seeker
from
work
based
on
that
record,
those
entities,
those
economy,
employers,
those
connectors
and
facilitators-
should
be
covered
by
the
law.
In
order
to
ensure
that
fair
standards
are
being
applied,
whenever
a
person's
record
could
be
a
barrier
to
employment.
H
I
thought
I
would
mention
briefly
that
there's
a
big
story
in
yesterday's
philadelphia
inquirer,
and
I
learned
that
council
member
green
had
a
small
business
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
and
I
I
think
it's
it's
worth
noting
that,
after
the
2015
amendments
council
members,
a
business,
the
size
of
council
member
green's
business
would
have
been
covered
by
ban
the
box.
It
would
have
been
required
to
abide
by.
Even
if
I
it
didn't,
say
how
many
employees
councilmember
green
had.
H
But
even
if
you
only
had
one,
you
would
have
been
required
to
file
the
law,
but
giant
national
corporations
operating
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
are
arguing
that
they're
not
covered
by
the
law
and
so
part
of
what
we're
getting
out
here
is
that
there
ought
to
be
a
level
playing
field
and
people
are
involved
in
employment
decisions,
whether
it's
a
small
business
or
whether
it's
a
national
corporation,
should
follow
this.
Just
like
all.
H
H
The
third
point
I
wanted
to
address
is
the
issue
of
liquidator
damages
to
the
greatest
extent
possible.
The
ordinance
should
provide
for
the
party
who
suffered
the
harm
to
be
fully
compensated.
The
the
ban,
the
box
ordinance
quite
properly
defines
a
violation
of
the
ordinance
as
a
matter
of
discrimination,
and
it
is
fitting
that
damages
should
be
paid
to
the
party
who
has
been
the
victim
of
discrimination,
as
is
commonly
done
in
court
cases.
H
The
only
compensation
they
can
receive
is
an
award
of
damages
by
the
commission
or
if
the
case
goes
to
court,
possibly
damages
water
by
the
court.
But
if
those
damages
are
too
low,
there
simply
may
not
be
enough
incentive
to
file
a
complaint
in
the
first
place
or
to
put
their
full
energy
and
time
into
working
with
the
commission
to
complete
the
administrative
process.
The
ordinance
does
currently
provide,
as
as
ms
landowner
for
the
complaint
to
receive
compensatory
damages,
but
the
truth
is
compensatory.
H
There's
going
to
be
much
less
disincentive
for
breaking
the
law,
but
our
main
concern
being
that
the
victims
themselves
should
be
incentivized
to
bring
these
complaints
and
it
should
be
made
worth
their
time
and
their
effort
to
bring
these
complaints.
The
proposed
amendment
would
deal
with
these
concerns
by
creating
a
new
category
of
liquidator
damages
which
could
be
provided
directly
to
the
complainant,
in
addition
to
compensatory
damages,
and
this
would
increase
the
chance
that
a
complainant
as
a
victim
of
discrimination
will
receive
a
meaningful
measure
of
compensation.
H
B
Well,
first
and
foremost,
thank
you
both
for
your
participation
in
the
drafting
and
implementation.
As
importantly
of
past
legislation
that
we
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
have
for
those
non-millennials,
can
you
do
a
brief
definition
of
gig
worker
and
independent
contractor
as
we
shift
away
from
factory
workers
to
this
new
gig
economy?
Can
you
define
for
those
in
the
listening
audience
what
those
those
definitions
are.
A
H
Well,
this
is
this
is
new
enough
that
I
think,
if
you
were
to
talk
about
the
law
and
what
does
the
law
say?
It's
it's
slightly
unsettled.
There
is
no
one
definition
set
out
in
in
the
law
of
pennsylvania
or
philadelphia
exactly
what
a
gay
economy
worker
is,
but
the
general
principle
of
independent
contractors
and
as
as
they're
they're
viewed
by
the
entities
that
employ
them.
B
H
B
G
H
There
are
some
very
well-known
ride,
share
companies
that
I
think
are
often-
and
I
won't
name
them,
but
in
public
discussion
kind
of
cited
to
sort
of
stand
in
for
the
gig
economy,
employers.
But
there
are
many.
We
learn
about
new
ones
with
it
through
our
work,
people
come
to
us
and
tell
us
they
got
hired
at
some
company.
We've
never
heard
of
it
turns
out.
C
G
G
We've
had
many
cases
against
ride,
share
companies,
but
it
is
true
and
and
other
types
of
gig
upon
economy
workers,
but
is
absolutely
true
that
is
evolving
in
real
time.
These
are
so
for
the
non-millennials,
so
they
can
understand
the
whole
concept
of
even
applying
for
a
job.
Now
you
basically
can
apply
on
your
phone
yeah
you're
you're,
requesting
access
to
work
off
of
their
platform.
That
is
what
it
is
now
you're.
You
want
to
work
off
their
platform.
G
Once
you
get
approved
to
work
on
the
platform,
they
start
to
send
you
clients
basically
or
jobs,
jobs.
Basically,
so
if
you
wanted
to
drive
for
a
company
that
is
doing
deliveries,
you
are
applying
online,
they
are
making
sure
that
you're
approved
and
they
are
running
background
checks,
which
is
why
we
have
to
make
sure
we
we
know
when
the
background
check
is
happening
and
then
they'll
approve
you
and
then
you're
on
it
and
I'm
sure
there's
some
version
of
training.
G
G
G
It
is
going
to
continue
to
morph
and,
as
it
has
continued
to
morph,
the
the
largest
employers
have
really
really
worked
hard
to
try
to
call
these
folks
independent
contractors
they're
working
on
their
own,
we're
just
helping
them
out
by
giving
them
jobs
instead
of
the
fact
that
they
are
employees.
They
are
entitled
to
protections
and
to
benefits
in
whatever
degree
possible,
and
we
in
philadelphia
have
to
make
sure
that
we're
ahead
of
this
and
that
we're
making
sure
that
we're
protecting
them.
B
D
Bill
number:
two:
zero:
zero;
five;
nine
three:
an
ordinance
mending
chapter
10
2000
of
the
philadelphia
code
entitled
use
of
three-dimensional
printer
to
manufacture
firearms;
to
change
the
chapter
title
to
add
definitions,
to
add
additional
prohibitions
on
the
use
of
three-dimensional
printers
to
impose
prohibitions
relating
to
the
transfer,
use
or
conversion
of
unfinished
firearms
and
certain
equipment,
the
manufacturer
of
firearms,
and
to
prescribe
additional
penalties
for
violations.
Under
this
chapter,
all
under
certain
terms
and
conditions.
F
If
not,
the
penalty
includes
fines
and
up
to
90
days
in
prison.
Again,
this
all
goes
toward
buying
parts
of
a
gun.
Putting
that
gun
together
and
using
that
gun.
Excuse
me
and
the
gun
does
not
have
a
serial
number,
and
these
are
the
types
of
guns
that
are
you
being
used
right
now
with
some
of
the
gumballs
that
we're
singing.
F
So
with
that
being
said,
I'm
going
to
ask
for
joe
shoe
to
queue
up
the
video
before
you
call
our
first
panel
and
then
just
to
give
everyone
just
a
real
good
overview
of
what
these
ghost
guns
are
really
look
like
and
what
they're
all
about-
and
I
want
to
be
clear
and
mention
this
again
in
2020,
we
have
taken
155,
ghost
guns
off
the
streets
of
philadelphia.
This
is
a
very,
very
real
issue
with
that
being
said,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
joshua
harris.
C
C
C
Use
firearm
is
located
where
the
trigger
mechanism
is
where
the
components
are
that
allows
the
weapon
to
fire.
So
that
is
the
part.
That's
important
to
law
enforcement.
We
consider
the
firearm
to
be
the
lower
receiver
with
the
trigger
housing
group,
as
components
are
located.
The
upper
receiver,
which
is
this
the
barrel
and
the
associated
the
bolt
those
are
not.
C
Regulated
and
you'll
see
here
that
it
looks
like
a
firearm
from
here
yeah,
it's
got
a
magazine
well,
but
it's
got
no
mark
on
no
holes
drilled
for
parts,
and
this
center
area
is
solid.
This
is
where
the
guts
of
the
firearm
for
lack
of
a
better
term
are
located.
This
is
where
the
hammer
is
at
the
spring,
the
fire,
the
trigger
mechanisms
go
in
this
piece.
The
solid
portion
has
not
been
machined.
It
is
not
a
firearm
right.
This
you
can
see
now
has
been
machined
right
here
all
and
carved
out
anytime.
C
You
have
a
functional
rifle
at
this
point.
You
know
the
vast
majority
of
firearms
we
can
trace
to
the
initial
purchaser
and
that
helps
us
identify.
Sometimes
it
comes
to
the
perpetrator,
to
a
friend
or
family
member
and
we're
able
to
help
further
our
criminal
investigations
like
that
when
you
lose
that
ability,
that's
a
significant
leg
of
the
investigative
stool
that
is
cut
out
from.
C
F
C
C
F
A
C
B
C
F
C
A
F
B
You
give
me
a
second
yeah.
I
have
a
a
couple
of
points
of
information
number
one,
the
of
greater
concern
than
the
actual
mechanism
to
build
the
parts
is
the
fact
that
anybody
can
go
on
the
internet
and
get
instructions
as
to
how
that
is
that
is,
as
concerning
as
having
the
ability
to
manufacture
their
parts,
you
can
get
instructions,
some
of
our.
B
We
had
to
take
a
hard
look
at
whether
or
not
some
of
our
colleges
and
universities
actually
have
these
3d
printers
and
they
have
legitimate
purposes
and
are
going
to
be
used
more
in
the
future
than
ever.
But
the
problem
side
of
this,
as
you
have
noted,
remember
johnson,
is
that
you
know
a
hammer
in
one
person's
hand,
can
build
a
house
and
a
hammer
in
another
person's
hand,
can
bludgeon
you
and
take
take
advantage
of
of
your
wallet.
B
So
we
have
to
be
careful
on
how
these
things
are
promoted
in
our
communities
and
then
instructions
on
how
to
create
weapons.
I
have
to
be
monitored.
So
this
is
a
a
very
important
issue.
Remember
johnson,
all
right
with
that
other.
Are
there
any
questions
of
members
of
the
panel
for
right
now?
If
not,
we
will
proceed
to
the
first
panel
to
testify
saying
none.
I
Good
morning,
chairman
jones
and
other
members
of
the
committee
of
public
safety,
as
you
know,
my
name's
fran
healy
and
I'm
a
special
advisor
to
the
police
commissioner,
outlaw
on
her
behalf.
I
would
first
like
to
thank
you
for
giving
the
police
department
opportunity
to
voice
its
opinion
on
bill
number
200593,
which
would
prohibit
the
unlawful
mastering
of
manufacturing
firearms.
As
you
may
be
aware,
I
testified
in
support
of
current
section
10-2000
regarding
the
production
of
three-dimensional
firearms,
which
this
bill
would
amend.
I
At
that
time,
the
police
department
supported
the
prohibition
of
three-dimensional
firearms
based
upon
the
fact
that
they
are
untraceable
or
commonly
referred
to.
As
ghost
guns,
however,
three-dimensional
firearms
are
not
the
only
ghost
guns
available,
so
the
department
appreciates
that
this
body
is
recognized,
as
fact
and
has
made
necessary
amendments.
I
Federal
law
requires
a
serial
numbering
of
completed
firearm
frames
or
receivers.
A
way
to
avoid
this
requirement
does
not
fully
finish
or
machine
the
frame
or
revi
or
receiver
according
to
federal
law,
an
uncompleted
frame
or
receiver,
as
you
saw
in
the
video,
is
nothing
more
than
a
piece
of
metal.
However,
any
skilled
or
even
semi-skilled
machinist
hands
can
often
complete
the
milling
necessary
to
make
the
frame
a
receiver
functional.
I
So
once
this
firearm
is
fully
assembled,
it
will
bear
no
serial
numbers.
You
would
not
be
able
to
tell
the
difference
from
a
ghost
gun
from
a
lawful
firearm
by
simply
looking
at
it
once
it's
a
clear
that
the
firearm
has
never
had
a
serial
number
is
the
only
time
you'll
discover
that
it
is
affected
ghost
gun.
I
This
issue
is
growing
while
we
have
not
recovered
any
three-dimensional
firearms
or
guns.
As
to
date,
the
number
of
ghost
guns
received
or
recovered
has
increased
over
the
years
in
2018
the
ppd
recovered
12.
in
2019
the
number
rose
to
97
and
year
to
date.
According
to
forensic
science,
director
garvey,
as
of
friday,
we
had
recovered
168..
I
I
No,
I
want
to
I
just
want
to
distinguish
between
the
two.
A
ghost
gun
is,
by
definition,
a
gun
that
just
does
not
have
a
serial
number
now
there's
two
ways
for
that
to
happen.
The
3d.
The
three-dimensional
process
is
the
process
of
creating
basically
a
plastic
gun
where
they
insert
the
springs,
firing
pins
to
make
it
work.
That
is
a
ghost
gun,
but
it's
a
plastic
gun
for
all
intents
and
purposes,
the
viability.
I
A
lot
of
those
guns
are
are
tenuous
at
best
a
lot
of
times
the
pressure
they
may
not
may
or
may
not
work.
The
other
way
to
make
a
ghost
gun
is
to
make
a
basically
a
legitimate
real
gun.
It's
a
metal
firearm.
You
would
not
be
able
to
tell
the
difference
if
you
pick
it
up
from
one
from
the
other
and
what
it's
done
is
it's
just
been
completed
by
an
individual
rather
than
a
company,
or
a
firm
that
manufactures
guns
regularly.
I
Now,
as
the
video
mentioned,
it's
not
unlawful
for
people
to
actually
create
their
own
firearms,
but
it's
for
personal
use.
It's
when
those
firearms
start
finding
their
way
into
the
market
that
we
see
it
becomes
a
problem
and
the
biggest
issue
for
the
department
is
the
the
serial
numbers.
It
may
sound
a
little
silly,
but
you
know,
obviously
the
owners
are
often
not
the
people
committing
the
crime
to
these
guns,
but
it
is
the
first
step,
as
the
atf
agent
mentioned,
in
getting
back
to
where
these
firearms
went
to
a
lot
of
times.
I
The
owners
will
say:
listen,
I
transferred
it
to
somebody
here
there
or
the
other
place,
and
it
gives
our
investigators
the
first
legs
towards
finding
the
actual
offender.
So
when
we're
missing
that
information,
it
does
take
that
valuable
step
away
from
the
investigative
process
so,
like
I
said,
but
the
the
issue
of
these
guns
is
too
different.
Like
I
said,
the
plastic
guns
are
very
different
than
these
are
real
real.
You
know
metal,
firearms
they're,
just
basically
a
piece
of
metal,
that's
been,
let's
say
80
percent
completed,
but
there's
a
solid
piece.
B
I
The
plastic
yes
could
pass,
but
they
do
require
some
metal
parts
for
them
to
work.
Metal,
firing,
pins
and
springs
cannot
all
be
plastic,
so
the
the
frame
and
the
receiver
are
made
out
of
plastic,
but
oftentimes.
They
still
require
some
metal
parts
inside,
but
for
the
most
part,
yes,
they
probably
could
get
through
some
type
of
security
system.
Yes,.
F
No,
no
not
at
the
moment,
but
I
do
think
for
the
clarity
regarding
the
ghost
guns
and
also
on
the
putting
together
of
guns
with
various
parts
which
we
have
seen
again
significantly.
And
I
remember
speaking
to
he's
now
deputy
commissioner
dales
when
he
was
the
with
the
inspector.
I
remember
seeing
a
picture
of
some
of
the
guns
that
have
been
recovered
and
this
is
really
real.
B
I
Well,
sir,
the
magazine
capac,
the
guns,
don't
necessarily
have
a
magazine
capacity.
I
could
put
a
five
round
magazine
in
there
or
I
could
put
a
60
round
magazine
there.
The
firearm
itself
does
not
have
the
capacity,
it's
actually
the
magazines
themselves,
so
you'll
notice
the
port.
Where
you
insert
the
the
magazine,
it
could
be
a
small
magazine
or
it
could
be
incredibly
large
to
the
firearms.
I
B
A
Remember
green.
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
Thank
you
inspector
healy
for
your
testimony.
I
just
have
a
few
file
questions
that
I
started
to
raise
with
councilmember
johnson
for
the
3d
printers
correct
me.
I'm
going
to
make
sure
I
have
a
full
understanding.
The
3d
printer
can
create
the
plastic
portion
of
a
ghost
gun,
but
then
you
still
would
need
additional
mill
work
to
make
it
fully
operational.
Is
that
correct.
I
D
C
A
Now
are
you
also
knowledgeable
from
your
perspective
or
from
others
where
certain
manufacturers
are
now
starting
to
advertise,
the
ability
to
purchase
instructions
or
other
information
on
how
to
create
and
assemble
these
type
of
ghost
guns
is
something
it's
my.
I
guess
my
basic
question
is
this:
where
the
the
gun
manufacturing
industry
is
going
to
promote
more
and
more
3d,
printing
and
kits
are
for
people
to
create
their
own
guns
at
home.
I
I'm
not
personally
aware
of
that.
Just
my
own
experience,
so
the
gun
manufacturers
would
be
losing
business
for
them
to
be
doing
this.
The
issue
is
a
lot
of
this,
quite
frankly,
is
when
it's
done
at
the
personal
level,
it's
more
of
a
hobby
issue
for
a
lot
of
folks
and
they're,
not
interested
in
taking
the
guns
or
selling
them.
That's
why
it's
not
illegal
to
do
so
at
the
federal
level.
It's
this
issue
when
people
are
taking
advantage
of
that.
A
And
maybe
I
misspoke
not
so
much
gun
manufacturers,
because
I,
I
think
you're
definitely
correct
in
reference
to
lost
revenue
therein.
I'm
talking
other
entities
who
see
this
as
an
opportunity
either.
Those
in
the
plastics
industry,
others
who
are
trying
to
help
promote
additional
home
gun
production
just
like
there
has
been
an
increase
over
the
past
number
of
years
in
reference
to
home.
I
I
Legal
to
make
the
gun,
as
for
the
equipment
I
mean,
there's,
no,
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
to
have
specialized
equipment.
If
you're
a
talented
machinist,
then
you
have
you
know
all
the
proper
equipment
for
making
anything
else.
You
could
probably
still
make
the
fun
you
could
still
drill
the
firearms
out
and
pour
them
out
they're,
basically
the
firearms.
I
So
you
know
they
come
from
a
solid
piece
of
steel
or
aluminum
in
some
cases
and
they're,
just
bored
out
and
actually
there's
computer
programs
that
actually
mill
it
all
out,
but
that
same
that
same
piece
of
equipment
could
be
used
for
you
know
doing
car,
rotors
and
stuff
like
that.
It's
not
specifically
designed
for
this.
It's
just
you
put
in
the
proper
specifications
and
the
machine
will
cut
whatever
it's
intended
to
cut.
Okay.
Thank
you,
mr.
A
B
E
I
I
E
I
E
E
F
I
B
Seeing
none
are
there
any
other
witnesses
to
testify
on
this
bill?
No
they're
not.
Are
there
any
other
witnesses
not
registered
that
wish
to
testify
on
this
bill
hearing
none.
This
concludes
our
hearing
and
we
will
now
go
into
our
public
meeting.
I
want
to
thank
all
those
who
testify
as
they
disconnect
and
thank
them
very
much
for
their
important
testimony
on
these
two
bills.
B
C
B
Jones
president,
a
farm
has
been
established
for
our
public
meeting
on
bill's
number:
two:
zero:
zero;
four,
seven:
nine
and
bill
number:
two:
zero,
zero,
five,
nine
three
all
right
and
we
have
a
requirement.
So
I
will
recognize
my
vice
chair
johnson
for
a
motion
on
bill
number:
two:
zero:
zero:
five,
nine
three.
F
B
F
B
F
B
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
I
moved.
I
now
move
that
bill
number
two:
zero:
zero:
four,
seven
nine,
as
amended,
be
reported
from
this
committee
with
a
favorable
recommendation
and
further
move
the
rules.
Accounts
will
be
suspended
to
permit
first
reading
of
this
bill
at
the
next
session
of
council.
Second.
B
B
D
B
B
All
right,
all
right,
all
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
I,
I
all
right,
it
has
been
approved
and
and
bills
number
two:
zero,
zero,
four,
seven
nine
and
two
zero
zero.
Five
nine
three
have
been
approved
and
with
that.
That
concludes
the
business
of
the
committee
on
public
safety.
Thank
you
for
your
participation
and
have
a
great
day.