►
Description
The Joint Committees on Finance & Transportation and Public Utilities of the Council of the City of Philadelphia held a Public Hearing on Wednesday, February 9, 2022, at 1:00 PM to hear testimony on the following items:
210653 Resolution authorizing the Committee on Finance and the Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities to conduct joint hearings regarding the sustainability and diversification of the Philadelphia Gas Works.
A
A
D
A
I
am
present
thank
you,
mr
inuzi,
a
quorum
of
these
two
committees
as
president
his
hearing
is
now
called
to
order.
This
is
a
joint
public
hearing
of
the
committees
on
finance
and
transportation
and
public
utilities.
Regarding
resolution
number
two
one:
zero,
six,
five,
three,
mr
inuzi,
will
you
please
read
the
title
to
the
resolution.
A
A
A
That's
been
able
to
transition
with
times
I
started
as
a
lighting
company
and
then
transition
into
a
heating
company,
and
when
we
look
at
all
the
issues
and
challenges
and
that
we
have
for
fit
off
the
gas
works,
we
can
see
a
future
transition
as
well,
and
so
the
goal
of
this
hearing
is
to
really
review
and
have
a
public
conversation
regarding
diversification
study.
I
want
to
thank
the
office
of
sustainability
and
all
the
partners
of
this,
the
diversification
study
working
group
on
coming
together
to
put
together
this
study.
A
It
happened
during
the
course
of
a
pandemic,
and
we
had
a
lot
of
great
participants
who
provide
a
lot
of
great
input
in
this
conversation
because
of
the
challenge
in
bringing
together
both
e3,
who
was
the
entity
one
of
the
entities
that
worked
on
the
study,
as
well
as
trying
to
put
together
two
different
committees
to
have
this
hearing.
We
will
have
a
further
hearing
to
provide
additional
input
for
those
from
the
public
to
provide
their
perspective
on
the
study
and
we'll
look
to
get
a
date
and
time
for
that
hearing
in
the
future.
E
A
And
thank
you
and
councilman
jones
if
you
would
like
to
provide
an
additional
comment
as
well.
I'm
after
council
member
johnson,
because
you
have
also
been
a
part
of
this
work
through
your
role,
not
only
as
members
of
these
two
committees,
but
also
as
a
member
of
the
gas
commission.
But
with
that
we'll
go
to
council
member
johnson
and
then
allow
others
to
provide
coverage.
F
E
F
E
A
A
E
A
Thank
you,
councilmember
jones,
councilman
johnson.
As
you
know,
and
I
think
others
know
that
the
city
of
philadelphia
has
and
owns
the
largest
municipally
owned
gas
utility
in
the
nation.
We
have
hundreds
of
thousands
of
rate
payers,
many
who
are
moderate
to
low
income
and
so
how
we
balance
that
issue
of
providing
efficient
and
reliable
energy
through
our
dedicated
workforce.
A
So
I
look
forward
for
today's
conversation
and
thank
you
all
of
the
attendees
all
the
partners,
all
the
individual
organizations
who
are
here
to
provide
their
perspective
on
this
very
important
topic
topic
with
that
mri
news
that
we
please
call
the
first
witness
we
have
to
testify
this
afternoon.
Regarding
resolution
number
two
one:
zero,
six,
five
three.
B
A
I
So,
as
you
may
know,
philadelphia
is
serious
about
being
a
climate
leader.
We
recently
received
an
a
rating
from
cdp,
among
only
four
percent
of
cities
in
the
world,
to
receive
that
top
rating.
Last
year,
with
the
release
of
our
climate
action
playbook,
we
updated
our
goal
to
commit
to
achieving
carbon
neutrality
by
2050..
I
This
goal
is
in
line
with
the
byte
administration's
goal
and
is
also
what
science
indicates
is
minimally
necessary
in
order
to
stave
off
the
worst
effects
of
climate
change,
such
as
extreme
heat
and
more
frequent
and
more
severe
storms.
Meeting
this
goal
will
require
decarbonization
in
all
sectors,
including
from
thermal
energy.
I
These
issues
will
only
intensify,
as
temperatures
continue
to
rise
and
policymakers
to
place
a
stronger
focus
on
reducing
the
amount
of
carbon
in
the
atmosphere
as
a
gas.
Only
utility
pgw
and
the
city
as
its
owner
need
to
understand
how
the
utility
can
provide
necessary
services
in
a
low
or
no
carbon
future,
while
also
thriving,
financially
protecting
low-income
residents
and
retaining
its
1600
person
workforce
with
support
from
the
bloomberg
american
cities.
Climate
challenge,
the
city
and
pgw,
came
together
to
explore
this
challenge
through
the
pgw
business
diversification
study.
I
J
Thank
you
christine
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak.
My
name
is
nikki
lindmeier.
I
am
a
managing
consultant
at
energy
and
environmental
economics
and
I
was
a
project
manager
for
the
pgw
business
diversification
study
that
was
developed
by
e3,
together
with
portfolio
associates
and
e-consult
solutions.
I
am
joined
today
by
amber
mahone,
who
is
a
partner
at
e3
and
through
this
presentation
I
will
walk
you
through
the
key
findings
and
recommendations
of
our
study.
J
J
Our
analysis
resulted
in
the
following
key
findings.
First
from
a
literature
and
regulatory
review,
we
found
that
diversifying
a
municipally
owned
natural
gas
utility
is
a
multi-dimensional
challenge
that
lacks
a
silver
bullet
solution.
Today,
we
also
found
that
a
diverse
set
of
existing
and
emerging
technology
and
business
options
will
be
necessary
and
as
pgw's
needs
and
role
evolve.
J
It
is
important
to
note
that
household
decisions
and
other
market
trends,
along
with
legal
and
regulatory
environments,
will
have
a
big
impact
on
the
city's
trajectory
to
net
zero.
Each
of
the
greenhouse
gas
reductions
pathways.
We
analyzed,
presents
trade-offs
between
cost
and
feasibility,
as
I
will
show
in
more
detail
later
on
and
in
the
long
term.
Pgw's
current
legal
and
regulatory
structure
and
cost
recovery
model
may
paste
chat
may
pose
challenges
mainly
related
to
customer
costs
and
affordability.
J
J
A
hybrid
scenario
may
mitigate
these
effects,
but
still
sees
upfront
cost
challenges
and
an
increase
in
energy
bills.
On
the
long
term,
we
found
that
a
network
geothermal
scenario
requires
capital
intensive
installations,
but
the
cost
to
customers
depend
on
how
such
a
system
will
be
financed,
for
which
additional
research
is
required
in
terms
of
impact
on
pgw
revenues
and
workforce.
We
found
that
a
decarbonized
gas
scenario
and
a
hybrid
electrification
scenario
would
keep
the
current
gas
system
intact.
J
I
Thanks
nikki,
so
to
pick
up
where
she
left
off,
the
city
is
committed
to
working
with
pgw
and
other
partners
to
take
next
steps
on
the
study's
recommendations
to
advance
the
pilot
projects.
We
are
currently
exploring
federal
funding
opportunities
to
support
the
weatherization
program
pilot
recommendation.
I
A
I
A
K
Good
afternoon,
thank
you,
councilman
green
councilman
johnson.
Thank
you
to
other
members
of
the
joint
committee.
I
I
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
in
front
of
you
today.
I
miss
you
guys
and
I
wish
that
we
could
be
in
person,
but
it's
good
to
you
nonetheless,
and
I'm
really
excited
that
we're
having
conversation,
as
you
guys
know,
I'm
relatively
new
to
management
in
pgw,
but
have
nearly
two
decades
on
the
board,
and
I've
been
very
excited
to
sort
of
have
this
conversation
and
and
move
this
effort
forward.
K
I'm
excited
that
we're
sharing
what
I
think
is
really
important
information
and
facts
and
findings,
and
I'm
excited
to
talk
what
they
mean
for
both
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
its
residents.
So
the
goal
is
to
talk
about
some
of
the
specifics
for
the
diversity
study
and
what
it
means
in
the
bigger
picture,
but
at
first
step
let
me
start
with
the
end
and
let
me
start
with
what
the
next
steps
are
christine
and
nikki
talked
about
some
of
this,
so
first
thing
sort
of,
first
and
foremost,
with
respect
to
the
study.
K
The
study
identifies
through
pilot
programs
and
pgw
is
committed
to
pursuing
each
one
of
the
pilot
programs
number
two.
The
study
highlighted
some
really
really
significant
obstacles
and
challenges,
and
we
think
the
collaborative
approach
that
the
study
sort
of
are
indicative
of
is
the
right
way
to
try
and
collectively
find
the
best
path
to
solve
some
of
those
issues,
and
then
the
third
one-
and
I
wanna
I
wanna,
say
this
very
clearly:
we
at
pgw
are
committed
to
achieving
the
mayor's
goal
of
carbon
neutrality
by
2050..
K
So
with
that
said,
let's,
let's
go
through
some
things.
First
of
all,
it
is
irrefutable
that
climate
change
is
one
of
the
most
significant
threats
to
our
civilization.
To
address
that
threat,
we
have
to
use
every
greenhouse
gas
reduction
strategy.
There
is
growth
and
renewables
alone
cannot
be
the
solution.
K
It
is
equally
irrefutable
that,
right
now,
today,
natural
gas
is
perhaps
the
most
significant
tool:
greenhouse
gas
reductions
worldwide.
The
overwhelming
majority
of
the
reductions
in
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
I've
seen
over
the
past
few
decades
have
come
from
the
transition
from
from
coal
and
heating
oil
to
natural
gas.
K
K
The
growth
that
we're
seeing
in
renewable
generation
cannot
keep
up
the
growth
in
demand
for
electric
and,
if
you
think
about
the
the
exponential
growth
we're
going
to
see
in
electric
vehicles
right,
it's
just
not
going
to
keep
up
there.
I
haven't
seen
a
single
credit
projection
that
shows
a
decline
in
natural
gas
usage
regeneration
over
the
next
several
decades.
In
fact,
just
last
month,
kinsey
put
out
a
study
that
said,
the
demand
for
electric
will
be
two
times
what
it
is
today
in
2050.
K
there's
not
a
single
projection,
growth
and
renewables.
That
gets
you
to
where
demand
is
today
much
less.
Where
demand
will
be
then,
and
so,
when
there's
a
push
for
electrification,
it
ignores
the
monumental
truth.
It's
not
going
to
change
anytime
soon.
So
much
electricity
is
created
through
burning
natural
gas
and
in
fact
it
more
it
burns
more
gas
making
electric
electrification
than
it
makes
in
combs.
Well,
let
me
try
and
put
a
finer
point
on
that.
K
Let
me
demonstrate
it
in
another
way,
so
so
the
delaware
valiant
planning
commission
calculates
energy
use
in
philadelphia,
and
so
the
last
numbers
they
gave
are
as
follows:
electric
energy
produced
46,
000
mm
btus
me
and
british
thermal
units
at
a
cost
of
1.3
billion
and
emitted
5.1
million
metric
tons.
Okay,
natural
gas
in
that
same
period
produced
79,
000,
mm
btus
of
energy,
at
a
cost
of
730
million
and
emitted
4.2
million
metals
of
emissions,
so
natural
gas
produce
close
to
twice
much
energy
at
half
the
cost,
with
fewer
emissions.
K
The
right
decisions
based
on
facts
and
think
about
repressions
right,
those
facts
alone.
We
think,
demonstrate
what
an
integral
part
pgw
plays
in
meeting
the
city's
carbon
reduction
goals,
but
we're
also
excited
to
talk
the
opportunity
to
lead
the
effort
right.
I've
actually
said
to
people
who
have
asked
about
my
transition
from
real
estate
in
energy,
and
I've
said
if
you
care
about
climate
and
you
care
about
achieving
these
goals.
Perhaps
the
single
best
place
to
be
is
sitting
at
pgw
with
the
chance
to
make
a
difference.
K
So
we
have
been
leading
this
area.
This
is
not
new
territory.
We've
been
leading
this
area
for
186
years
right,
and
so
let
me
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
things
annually.
We
eliminate
methane
escape
investing
in
our
infrastructure.
Last
year
we
spent
85
million
dollars
and
replaced
37
miles
of
in
cast
iron
main
right
and
bob
just
so.
You
understand
the
the
equation.
Every
five
ish
miles
that
you
reduce,
eliminates
23
metric
tons
of
methane
right
in
fiscal
22.
K
We
spent
10.8
million
dollars
the
rising
our
low
income
customers
homes.
In
fact,
over
the
last
10
years,
we've
spent
75
million
weatherizing
25
000
low
income
homes
at
no
cost
to
the
owner.
These
efforts
have
contributed
to
our
over
overall
energy
efficiency
and
just
those
have
reduced
emissions
by
920
000
metric
tons
of
of
co2.
K
We
continue
to
create
things
in
innovative
things
like
advancing
chp,
combined
heat
power.
You
may
have
read
about
the
project.
The
national
park
services
do
inverting
their
buildings
to
natural
gas.
That's
going
to
save
the
fed
government
750
000
a
year
in
operating
fences,
and
it's
going
to
reduce
their
energy
usage
by
114
000
mm
btus
we're
a
partner
in
the
us
epa's
men
challenge
program.
We
continue
to
look
at
things
like
renewal,
natural
gas,
responsibly
source
natural
gas,
natural
gas
and
hydrogen.
K
We
also
recently
launched
an
energy
innovation,
lab
incubator
competition,
where
we
partnered
with
temple
university's,
small
business
office
to
identify
and
support
creative
entrepreneurs
and
startups,
who
have
innovative
energy
reduction
concepts,
and
we've
awarded
our
first
two
winners
in
that
program.
We're
proud
of
what
we've
done,
but
the
next
question
we
need
to
ask
is:
what
are
we
going
to
do
to
fur
our
sort
of
shared
goals?
How
do
we
further
diverse
our
business
and
tackle
this
this
challenge
of
climate
change?
K
While
we
still
maintain
the
sustainability
of
this
asset
and
the
affordability
of
energy
for
our
customers
and
there's
one
more
a
couple
of
things
you
need
to
know,
and
I
think
the
product,
the
report
did
a
good
job
of
highlighting
some
of
this
remember,
we
are
not
a
private
company.
Pgw
does
not
have
profits.
We
do
not
have
stakeholders
the
only
dividend
we
pay
is
80
million
dollars
to
the
city
of
philadelphia.
We
operate
break
even
the
cost
of
operating.
This
utility
are
spreading
our
customers
in
a
manner
reviewed
and
approved
by
the
public
utilities.
K
K
We
understand
that
our
efforts
to
further
versus
fire
model
are
not
going
to
happen
overnight.
It's
why
we're
so
grateful
this
collaborative
opportunity.
We've
been
wrestling
into
these
issues
for
decades,
and
so
we
really
appreciate
this
level
of
engagement
from
from
you
and
your
colleagues
and
also
from
other
key
stakers.
K
I
want
to
thank,
certainly
you
guest
commission,
chair,
green
and
gas
commission.
Member
jones.
You
guys
have
been
spectacular
partners
in
this.
We
appreciate
your
involvement
in
all
things,
but
particularly
diversification
study,
the
rest
of
your
your
fellow
gas
commission
members.
I
want
to
acknowledge
philadelphia
facilities,
management
corporation
of
which
I
used
to
be
a
member
and
those
members
work
very
hard
and
are
very
supportive.
K
Low
clicks,
86.
Our
our
union
is
a
spectacular
partner
and
none
of
the
things
we
accomplish
get
accomplished
without
their
participation,
including
this
study,
and
I
have
loved
the
employee.
Private
citizens
and
passionate
stakeholders
who've
been
engaged
and
involved
in
this
diversification
study.
Climate
change
is
a
generational
challenge
and
it
will
require
a
seismic
shift
in
the
way
we
live
and
the
way
we
create
and
deliver
the
energy
we
use.
K
Natural
gas
pgw
and
our
employees
will
continue
to
be
a
drug
force
in
reducing
emissions.
We
are
wholly
bought
in
to
the
I
department
neutrality
by
2050.
We
subscribe
to
facts.
We
have
a
responsibility
to
make
sure
that
achieving
that
goal
does
not
result
in
untenable
repercussions
to
our
core
mission,
which
is
providing
safe,
reliable,
affordable
energy
to
our
customers.
Thank
you
guys
so
much
for
having.
I
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
talk
about
it
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
or
any
of
your
colleagues
have.
A
Thank
you,
mr
shapiro,
and
the
other
panelists
for
testifying
this
morning,
providing
that
insightful
information,
an
overview
of
the
verification,
study
and
flawless
filled
up
a
gas
works
perspective.
I
have
a
few
questions
and
I
believe
so.
My
colleagues
may
also
have
questions.
If
so,
please
indicate
in
the
chat
feature.
A
A
She
has
a
third
electric
car
now
and
it
wasn't
that
long
ago,
if
you
were
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
if
you
saw
an
electric
vehicle,
you
would
think
what
is
that
now,
depending
on
almost
every
neighborhood
in
the
city,
there's
electric
vehicle.
But
the
reason
for
my
observation,
my
research,
how
we've
been
able
to
get
to
that
point
is
because
it's
been
a
combination
of
both
policy
initiatives
at
the
the
federal
level
and
also
some
degree
state
and
also
private
sector,
investing
electric
vehicles.
I
Sure,
thank
you
councilman.
I
would
say
the
policy
front.
We
obviously
have
been
working
on
building
decarbonization
as
an
office
priority
for
a
number
of
years.
The
city's
benchmarking
program
has
been
in
effect
for
almost
12
years,
and
the
recent
building
energy
performance
policy
that
passed
through
council
in
2019
will
have
its
first
compliance
year
in
2022.
I
So
there
are
some
pretty
significant
avenues
that
we've
taken
from
a
local
policy
perspective,
but
I
think
to
your
point,
we
you
know:
nikki
showed
that
chart
right
at
the
beginning
that
showed
our
2050
goal
and
if
we
did
everything
that's
in
our
climate
action
playbook,
we
still
have
that
that
gap
there
and
what
we
actually
have
seen.
We
put
that
report
out
about
three
weeks
before
the
bind
administration
took
office
after
they
took
office,
and
president
biden
made
a
commitment
to
having
a
carbon
free
electricity
grid
by
2035.
I
We
actually
redid
that
chart
and
found
that
almost
that
entire
green
section,
that
was
our
our
sort
of
gap
in
hitting
that
goal,
was
eliminated
by
the
federal
government
taking
that
level
of
action.
So
it
just
really
highlights
that
you
know
we
can
do
a
lot
on
our
own,
but
we
can't
do
it
all
meeting
these
goals
and
so
having
state
level
and
federal
level
policy
makers.
Part
of
this
work
is
really
important
and
it
hasn't
really
been
something
that
we
were
able
to
really
do
much
of
in
the
prior
administration.
I
But
I
think
we
certainly
have
an
administration
that
isn't
we
have
the
same
carbon
neutrality
goal.
I
think
there
are
a
lot
more
opportunities,
partly
through
policy,
partly
through
the
funding
that
we
are
now
seeing
flowing
from
the
infrastructure
bill
and
hopefully,
if
we
ever
get
to
build
back
better
as
well.
Some
additional
funding
opportunities
there
as
well.
A
And
this
is
for
anything
that
they
want
to
jump
in,
because
I
think
this
is
something
that
we
need
to
take
leadership
in
trying
to
push
these
issues,
because,
if
we're
going
to
get
to
some
of
these
goals
that
we
need
we're
going
to
need
to
see
additional
opportunities
for
renewable
natural
gas
for
weatherization
for
decarbonization
for
geothermal,
I
think
the
infrastructure
bill
provides
some
opportunities,
but
we
really
need
to
have
some.
Our
fellow
partners
take
some
leadership
and
help
in
helping
to
make
that
happen,
especially
with
this
current
administration.
A
A
I
know
the
renewable
natural
gas
pilot
was
an
issue
that
pgw
tried
to
address,
which
provides
some
some
space
in
that
decarbonization
gas
lane
and
I
believe
the
pilot
was
about
500
thousand
dollars
and
I
believe
pgw
purchased
about
130
million
dollars
of
gas
a
year.
I'm
correct.
I
want
to
get
some
perspective
on
what
are
some
of
the
regulatory
challenges
from
state
law
perspective,
and
I
know
we
have
oversight
entity
with
puc
the
gas
commission,
pfmc
and
pdw,
which
is
a
collection
of
assets.
K
Thanks
and
that's
a
great
question,
we
probably
don't
have
time
for
me
to
give
an
adequate
explanation
of
all
of
the
regulatory
hurdles
we
face.
You
know,
as
you
guys
are,
are
familiar.
We
have
city
oversight
in
in
terms
of
the
gas
commission
city
council.
We
have
state
oversight
in
certainly
in
terms
of
the
legis,
the
legislature
that
can
pass
bills,
but
also
public
utility
commission,
and
then
we
also
have
you
know
federal
oversight
in
terms
of
fimsa
and
ferc.
K
You
know
when,
when
pgw
created
it
was
186
years
ago
and
while
we've
changed
a
little
bit,
you
know
the
the
documents
that
we
operate
under
didn't
contemplate.
Sort
of
the
realities
exist
now,
so
there
are
constraints
in
terms
of
the
businesses
we
can
in
right
we're
constrained
to
be
in
the
business
of
of
deliver
natural
gas.
We
are
constrained
geographically
within
the
city
limits.
We
are
constrained
in
terms
of
what
other
businesses
we
can
get
into
in
terms
of
putting
other
financing
on
financing
on
our
bill
or
doing
any
financing
together.
K
What
would
we
want
to
do
and
we're
working
through
that?
But
our
idea
is
to
say
find
something
identify
the
hurdles.
I
have
faith
having
with
all
of
the
regulatory
bodies
I
mentioned
before.
If
we
came
up
with
a
good
solution
and
said
this
is
the
assistance
we
need,
whether
that's
assistance
we
need
from
from
from
you
guys
or
assists.
We
need
from
the
puc
of
the
state
legislature
or
assistance
we
needed
even
from
federal
government.
I
think
the
mentality
is
there
to
do
it.
K
You
asked
specifically
about
about
rng
and
you
had
the
facts
spot
on
we'd
like
to
add
a
very,
very
small
amount
of
rng
into
our
our
gas
supply,
and
I
think
the
the
puc
commissioners
wanted
to
be
able
to
say
yes
and
in
fact,
if
you
read
the
opinion
that
they
issued,
they
said
all
all
the
right
things.
They
understand
the
the
significant
nature
of
this
too.
Unfortunately,
one
of
the
regulatory
hurdles
is
that
there
is
a
least
cost
supply
requirement
right
and
so
the
they
said.
K
A
It
definitely
sounds
like
a
conversation
we
need
to
have
with
our
philadelphia
delegation,
others
around
the
regarding
this
issue.
I
just
have
one
last
question
and
then
we'll
hear
from
councilmember
bass,
then
councilman
again,
then
councilmember
jones.
One
of
the
aspects
of
this
transition
is
that
we
need
to
find
ways
for
people
to
use
less
energy.
I
think
mr
shapiro
gave
a
lot
of
information
regarding
the
challenges
in
reference
to.
A
We
don't
have
enough
energy
sources
as
it
is,
but
in
order
to
look
at
ideas
like
electrification
or
solar
or
geothermal
decarbonized
gas,
through
the
you
know,
the
rng
or
renewable
natural
gas
conversation
that
we
just
had.
We've
also
got
to
find
ways
to
make
the
homes
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
more
sustainable,
because
if
you
make
the
homes
more
sustainable,
you're
using
less
energy-
and
it
makes
it
more
feasible
for
some
of
these
other
ideas
that
we're
talking
about.
A
However,
to
do
that,
that's
a
real
challenge
in
the
city
of
philadelphia,
which
is
a
very
seasoned
city.
Not
everyone
has
the
resources
to
make
their
home.
You
know
very
sustainable.
I
was
just
with
emily
shapiro
and
the
philadelphia
authority
this
morning
at
a
press
conference
where
they
were
installing
solar
panel
on
a
homeowner's
home
in
belmont,
but
they
had
to
make
the
home
sustainable
first
to
stop
the
leakage
of
energy
out
of
the
home.
A
Do
that
first
and
then
do
the
solar
installation
and
when
I
think
about
that,
it
makes
me
think
about
the
philadelphia
gas
works.
Has
a
parts
and
labor
program
where
we're
using
our
pgw
workforce
going
to
homes
to
make
sure
that
people
have.
You
know
great
energy
appliances
and
that
they
are
are
safe.
A
Considering
we
have
such
a
low
such
a
high
rate
of
poverty,
and
we
need
to
provide
more
jobs
and
opportunities
for
people
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
there's
also
some
training
perspectives
that
can
help
people
coming
out
of
a
neighborhood
school
or
any
school
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
to
train
people
to
go
into
that
space
to
grow
that
workforce.
So
I
say
all
that
to
say
one
to
get
some
perspective
on
on
that.
You
know.
A
Pgw
currently
has
a
gas
line,
training
program
where,
if
you
go
through
community
college
in
philadelphia,
you
can
get
a
certification,
so
you
can
be
a
gas
line
operator
and
get
a
sustainable
job
and
career.
If
that's
something
you're
interested
in
so
the
I
want
to
get
some
perspective
on
how
we
address
the
weatherization
aspect.
A
If
there's
ways
we
can
do
that
using
you
know
pdw,
as
I
talked
about
the
parts
of
labor
how
to
expand
that
and
really
use
this
transition
and
issue
on
climate
change
as
a
way
to
address
workforce
and
poverty
in
our
city
and
still
make
our
homes
in
our
city
more
sustainable.
That
makes
some
of
the
other
energy
concepts
that
we
talked
about
more
ask
for
any
other
channel.
I
Sure
I'll
be
happy
to
chime
in
on
that,
and
I
think
seth
noted
in
his
testimony
that
we
do
have
one
of
the
highest
energy
burdens
in
the
country.
There's
some
some
good
data
that
we've
been
able
to
access
regarding
that,
and
so
I
think
that's
a
real
problem.
It's
you
know
this.
This
issue
that's
kind
of
at
the
nexus
of
of
housing,
climate,
equity,
affordability.
So
it's
something
that
our
office
has
been
actually
investigating.
I
Over
the
last
year
and
change,
we
held
a
series
of
community
conversations
with
six
community
communities
that
were
identified
as
having
the
highest
some
of
the
highest
energy
burdens
in
the
city,
to
kind
of
really
hear
from
people
who
are
experiencing
it
and
what
sort
of
solutions
and
ideas
they
would
have
for
the
city
to
better
address
that
issue,
and
I
think
one
of
the
main
things
that
we
heard
is
that
I
mean
that
we
heard
a
lot
of
findings.
I'd
be
happy
to
share.
I
You
know
a
larger
presentation
about
those
findings
at
another
moment,
but
I
think
one
thing
we
heard
is
that
if
you're
just
talking
about
weatherization
of
homes,
it's
hard
to
do
that
when
the
home
has
a
lot
of
other
needs.
If
there's
you
know
asbestos
that
needs
to
be
remediated
if
there's
mold
in
the
home,
if
there's
a
leaking
pipe,
that's
going
to
keep
leaking,
and
even
if
you
remediate
the
mold,
if
the
pipe
isn't
addressed,
it's
going
to
create
mold
again
right.
I
So
you
can't
just
invest
in
the
weatherization
of
a
home
if
you're
not
looking
at
the
home
more
holistically,
that's
not
surprising
news
right.
We,
the
city,
ran
a
energyworks
home
audit
and
energy
efficiency
program
in
the
last
administration,
using
era
funding
and
it
you
know,
fell
short,
I
think
of
some
of
its
gold
in
part,
because
of
that
it
only
provided.
You
know
one
sort
of
key
service
and
wasn't
really
connected
into
other
services,
that
those
same
homes
also
needed.
I
So
we've
been,
you
know,
partnering
with
the
energy
authority
on
the
built
to
last
pilot
model,
which
we
think
will
help
us
to
unpack.
How
do
we
do
better,
more
comprehensive
home
interventions
that
can
make
homes
healthier
cheaper
to
to
run
no
to
pay
for
energy
bills
more
resilient
against
heat
and
the
change
in
climate?
I
mean
these.
I
Are
you
know
this
is
really
the
groundwork
and
with
six
hundred
thousand
single-family
homes,
you
know
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
heavy
lift,
but
I
think
that
is
really
going
to
be
one
of
the
priorities
for
our
office
both
from
you
know
that
and
that
overlaps
both
with
the
the
gas
work.
You
know,
sort
of
transition,
work
and
diversification
work
as
well
as
lots
of
other
programs
that
we're
concurrently
running
so
happy
to
continue
the
conversation
on
that
front.
K
Well,
the
only
thing
I'll
add
to
that
councilman.
So
so
you
know
I
mentioned:
we've
spent
75
million
dollars
in
the
latin
years,
weatherizing
homes
and
and
you're
spot
on
that
that
that's
helpful
and
and
a
really
crucial
component,
obviously
we're
very
proud
of
parts
and
labor
and
and
having
our
our
trained
technicians
go
out
and
and
address
issues
and
also
improves
the
efficiency
of
their
appliances,
and
so
that's
helpful
as
well.
K
Your
steam
brings
up
an
interesting
point
about
some
of
the
challenges:
weatherization,
there's
a
small
other
component
of
our
weatherization
program,
where,
if
our
folks
find
health
and
safety
issues,
they
have
a
small
budget
to
address
it,
so
we've
actually,
over
the
last
two
years,
spent
a
quarter
of
a
million
dollars
addressing
those
health
and
safety
issues
that
within
people's
homes.
So
so
it's
a
great
program.
K
C
C
My
question
I
actually
have
one
question
for
christine
and
one
for
seth
christine.
If
you
could
give
me
some
sense
of
the
you
know,
because
the
numbers
tell
the
tale
of
how.
How
are
we
getting
to
the
end
result
that
we're
looking
for
in
terms
of
making
homes
weatherized
or
just
you
know,
ready
giving
them
the
interventions,
as
you
described
it,
so
that
they
are
leading
towards
our
goal
of
being
carbon
neutral?
C
And
I
guess
what
I'm
saying
is
how
many
units
need
to
be
addressed
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
how
far
along
are
we?
Are
we
tracking?
What's
being
done?
I
know
the
city's
doing
stuff.
Individual
organizations
are
doing
things,
pgw
is
doing
things.
Are
we
tracking
all
of
the
things
that
are
happening,
so
we
can
have
a
good
sense
of
how
close
far
away
whatever
we
may
be
from
reaching
our
goal.
I
That's
that's
a
great
question,
as
you
know,
there's
not
a
single
sort
of
metric
for
that
there's.
So
many
different
actors
doing
so
many
different
programs,
which
is
wonderful,
but
it
is
also
part
of
the
complication.
Is
that
there's
a
lot
of
different
programs
for
one
homeowner
or
one
renter
to
access,
and
so
that
makes
it
difficult
for
them.
But
I
will
say
this
because
of
that
energy
burden
data
that
we
were
able
to
access.
As
I
mentioned,
we've
been
sort
of
deepening
our
work.
I
In
that
regard,
we
are
starting
to
try
to
pull
those
numbers
together
from
those
different
programs
to
see
how
they
add
up.
So
just
one
top
line.
Number
I'll
share
is
that,
according
to
this,
this
energy
burden,
mapping
that
we
have
about
a
hundred
and
eighteen
thousand
homes
are
in
severe
energy
burden,
which
means
they're
spending
a
hundred
and
eighteen
thousand
hundred
and
eighteen
thousand,
because
I
thought
you
said
eighteen
000.
I
was
like
is
that
it
no
no
yeah,
118
000
are
in
severe
energy
burden.
I
I
don't
remember,
that's
the
number
below
that
that
was
sort
of
the
next
level
of
like
very
energy
burden,
but
it
was
somewhere
in
the
same
ballpark
of
six
figures,
100
000
plus.
So
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
is
track.
You
know,
according
to
those
levels
of
energy
burden,
what
are
the
programs
that
exist
for
them
and
how
many
are
they
servicing
each
year?
So
what?
I
For
example,
we
we
just
partnered
with
the
energy
coordinating
agency
to
apply
to
a
federal,
weatherization
assistance,
program,
innovation
and
enhancement,
grant
as
mouthful
with
the
idea
of
looking
at
the
neighborhood
energy
centers
that
the
energy
coordinating
agency
services,
they
run
those
except
there's,
17,
neighborhood
energy,
centers
in
different
neighborhoods
of
the
city.
How
many
people
are
getting
services
through
those
next?
How
many
programs
are
they
getting
registered
for
etc?
C
Well,
that
would
be
great
if
you
could
provide
that
to
the
chairman
and
I'm
sure,
he'll
get
it
to
the
members
of
the
community.
That
would
be
fantastic
so
that
we
can
have
some
sort
of
a
sense
of
how
far
off
we
are
and
as
the
budget
season
quickly
approaches.
That
may
be
something
that
we
want
to
talk
about,
because
it
really,
you
know,
like
your
priorities,
are
showing
your
budget
and
so,
if
we're
not
budgeting
for
preparing
for
it,
we're
not
really
serious
about
it.
C
So
so
that's
the
first
thing.
My
second
question
is
for
you
said,
and
I
know
you
know
just
loosely
following
this
issue
in
terms
of
some
of
the
things
that
are
happening
on
the
state
side.
I
know
that
previously
you've
addressed
questions
around
senate
bill,
275
and
pgw's
membership
and
industry
associations,
and
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
kind
of
talk
about
that
or
elaborate
on
that
issue,
just
a
little
bit
yeah
if
you
could
just
touch
on
that
that'd
be
great.
C
K
So
we
we've
talked
about
275
a
great
deal,
and
so
so
let
me
address
it
in
sort
of
the
context.
I
did
with
my
comments
in
terms
of
sort
of
facts
and
repercussions
right
so
facts
as
a
philadelphia
born
and
raised
here,
I'm
never
in
favor
of
the
seat
telling
the
city
telling
you
guys
how
can
and
can't
legislate
right.
K
We
already
serve
a
curtain
population,
shifting
natural
gas
consumption
upstream
to
sell
us
higher
cost
electricity
isn't
helpful.
Now
we
are
subject
matter
experts.
When
legislation
comes
our
stakeholders,
you
and
and
and
your
fellow
city,
council,
members
and
state
legislatures
and
federal
legislators,
call
us
and
ask
opinions.
It
is
our
responsibility
to
answer.
That's
our
job.
That's
not
lobbying!
Imagine
for
a
moment.
You
called
me
to
say:
hey.
I
have
questions
about
a
bill
and
my
response
to
you
was
councilman
best.
I
might
not
be
in
support
of
that.
K
Our
mm-hmm
is
to
answer
questions,
but
that's
not
lobbying,
so
you
also
asked
about
our
membership
in
industry
associations
right
a
member
of
a
couple
industry
associations,
american
gas
association's
biggest
one.
That's
a
national
trade
organization
comprising
200
members
on
the
more
local
level.
Part
of
the
energy
association
of
pennsylvania
is
just
pennsylvania
utilities.
K
K
They
provide
a
whole
variety
of
services
and
best
practices.
We
have,
I
think,
75
different
employees
who
participate
in
34
different
committees
with
their
peers
around
the
country.
These
are
committees,
including
safety,
energy
codes,
sustainability,
accounting,
customer
service,
cyber
security
resources,
internal
audit,
gas
control
materials,
osha
and
I
could
go
on
and
on
right.
They
teach
us
best
practices
about
pipeline
safety,
about
methane
erection
during
covid.
They
were
an
invaluable
resource
with
health,
facts
and
advice
on
how
to
protect
our
folks
right.
K
They
actually
so
the
aga
has
to
irs
what
percentage
of
their
activities
funds
lobbying
their
percentage
is
3.8
right.
Three
point:
eight
percent.
So
what
we
get
out
of
aga
is
not
lobbying.
We
have
aga
it's
practices
by
the
way,
the
energy
association
of
pennsylvania.
I
think
just
reported
a
couple
weeks
ago.
Their
number
for
what
percentage
of
their
efforts
are
lobbying
as
opposed
to
anything.
Their
percent
is
one
point.
Four,
seven
percent,
and
by
the
way,
when
it
says
lobby
lobbying
is
not
lobbying,
aga
is
lobbying
for
pipeline
safety.
K
Aga
is
leading
for
leip
aj,
led
the
effort
nationwide
get
4.5
billion
dollars
in
supplemental
heat
funding
into
the
american
rescue
plan,
act
of
2021.
all
told
they
got
eight
eight
and
a
quarter
billion
in
life
and
for
21
it's
the
highest
level
in
history.
They
lobby
for
infrastructure
money
for
methane
reduction.
K
Alternate
fuels
right,
so
this
whole
idea
that
when
people
say
we
shouldn't
be
part
of
these
organizations,
these
organizations
accrue
benefits
to
pgw,
to
the
city
and
to
our
players
that
are
so
exponential
compared
to
what
we
spend
that
that,
it's
quite
frankly,
common
to
think
that
we
would
be
better
served
not
being
members
so
phoebe.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
address
that.
A
F
Thank
you
very
much
council,
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
especially
to
my
colleague,
councilmember
bass.
I
appreciate
your
line
of
inquiry.
I
wanted
to
follow
up
with
nikki
a
little
bit
on
the
diversification
study
and
and
one
I
just
also
want
to
say
thank
you
to
christine
knapp
to
your
to
your
team
and
and
everybody.
I
know
that
the
city
has
been
explicit
about
its
commitments
and
the
need
to
move
boldly,
and
these
are
difficult
times.
There's
no
question.
F
We
are
going
to
have
to
imagine
a
future
that
does
not
currently
exist,
while
protecting
our
customers
protecting
our
city,
standing,
ensuring
employment
and
a
strong
labor
force.
They
all
matter
to
us.
But
it's
important
to
think
about
that
part
of
this
conversation
is
not
about
today
and
the
metrics
of
today.
F
Part
of
our
conversation
is
about
the
metrics
of
a
decade
from
now
or
20
years,
from
now
long
past
people's
10
years
in
different
agencies,
long
past
all
of
us
being
in
office,
and
we
must
still
stay
the
course
right.
So
I
am
interested
just
in
hearing
from
you
a
little
bit
about
the
diversification
study
from
nikki.
J
J
Each
of
those
options
has
you
know
the
opportunity
to
provide
value
specifically
to
either
pgw's
customers
to
the
workforce
or
just
to
the
city
as
a
whole
in
achieving
its
carbon
neutrality
goals,
but
we
also
found
that
none
of
these
options
really
have
the
potential
to
to
fully
support
or
to
fully
recover
or
cover
the
cost
of
the
utility
on
the
long
term.
So,
while
like
providing
a
combination
or
a
mix
of
these
options
is
valuable,
cost
recovery
is
still
a
challenge
on
the
long
term.
Yeah.
F
There's
no
question
that
we're
conscious
about
that.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit?
I
mean
we've
made
multiple
statements
right
about
the
financial
viability
of
the
natural
gas
model.
We've
talked
about
declining
customer
base,
you
know,
as
alternatives
become
more
affordable
and
you
know
more
accessible.
F
I
I
You
know
we
have
seen
decline
with
pgw
and
they've
noted
it
themselves
as
well
in
from
appliance
efficiency
from
warming
weather,
and
so
that
was
a
key
concern
that
we
had
and
then,
if
you
were
to
add
in
any
carbon
tax,
you
know
any
larger
sort
of
federal
or
state
intervention.
You
know
from
a
regulatory
standpoint.
What
would
that
then
further
do
right.
So
that's
that
was
very
much
part
of
our
impetus
behind
this
and
I
just
wanted
to
give
that
a
little
extra
flavor.
So
thank
you
for
and
nikki.
J
I
think
that's
exactly
right
and
it's
important
to
note
that,
like
the
the
cost
of
this
system
are
costs
and
investments
that
have
been
made
over
the
past
decades,
right
so
decades
of
investments
in
in
reliable
infrastruct
infrastructure
and
especially
with
like
programs
to
prevent
methane
leakages.
The
cost
of
the
system
are
there
and
they're
embedded
and
to
answer
a
question
on
like
potential
risk.
What
we're
seeing
and
that's
what
mr
shapiro
said
before
currently
under
the
framework
the
cost
the
ptw
has
to
maintain
are
shared
over
the
customers.
J
So
you
can
imagine
with
like.
If
customers
choose
to
electrify,
for
instance,
that
customers
would
leave
that
gas
system
customer
base
and,
as
that
happens,
as
fewer
customers
remain
on,
the
system
are
sort
of
a
risk
that
those
rates
or
the
the
cost
that
pgw
needs
to
recover
are
shared
over
those
fewer
customers
which
raises
the
potentially
raises
the
cost
for
our
customers,
and
that
we
think
is
especially
a
risk
for
low-income
customers,
as
they
may
not
have
the
the
means
to
adopt
an
electric
heat
pump.
For
instance,
yeah.
F
F
We
are
also
as
stewards
and
as
managers
of
this
public
utility,
which
we
held
on
to
you
know
at
for
a
significant
political
reason
to
take
care
of
of
our
customers,
but
we
also
are
deeply
invested
in
the
financial
viability
and
thus
diversification
is
not
a
threat
to
the
financial
viability.
Diversification
may
be,
in
fact,
the
underpinning
of
viability
here,
and
I
think
that
that's
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
highlight
and
hope
that
we
can
continue
to
have
more
the
understanding
about
the
failure
to
move
quickly.
F
Enough
could
put
us
in
a
bad
financial
state
again,
maybe
not
in
the
next
two
or
three
financial
cycles,
but
you
know
we're
looking
at
10
to
20
years.
You
know.
Increasingly,
we
are
taking
a
look
at
population
health
benefits,
and
you
know
climate
issues
has.
The
study
is:
what's
the
study
able
to
consider
the
potential
population
health
impact
and
particularly
the
benefits
of
shifting
from
natural
gas
towards
alternative
sources.
J
J
So
we
did
not
look
at
like
a
quantification
of
what
those
health
benefits
could
be
to
the
city.
We
linked
how
air
quality
to
the
combustion
of
fuels
and,
as
you
saw
in
that
chart
that
I
pulled
up
earlier
with
with
the
check
boxes.
We
see
that
especially
moving
towards
electrification
potentially
improves
air
quality,
whereas
continuing
to
rely
on
decarbonized
gases
does
not,
but
we
do
not
have
a
quantification
of
those
impacts.
F
Well,
we
look
forward
to
working
with
you
a
little
bit
more
and
I
hope
certainly
that
health
becomes
part
of
the
conversation
around
climate.
This
isn't
an
abstract
issue,
but
one
that
directly
impacts
our
residents
lives.
Before
I
move
to
mr
shapiro,
I
just
wanted
to
say
a
little
bit
of
of
some
thoughts.
You
know,
there's
no
question
that
we
have
to
work
on
a
multiple
goals,
kind
of
strategy.
F
We
have
a
chart
towards
it,
but,
as
my
colleagues
have
noted,
with
a
significant
gap
and
you've
noted
as
well
that
we
can't
actually
get
to
2050
by
ourselves,
and
so
this
is
a
serious
concern
for
us.
So
either
we're
gonna
need
to
accelerate
on
our
end,
because
if
we
are
to
have
a
plan
by
2050,
it
is
my
personal
opinion
that
we
have
to
be
in
charge
of
that
plan.
Right
like
we
can't.
F
We
can't
see
so
many
significant
parts
of
the
plan
to
other
entities,
so
we
need
to
think
about
what
that
means
for
ourselves.
I
also
want
to
you
know
just
open
up
a
little
bit
about
being
careful
of
false
choices,
that
only
some
of
these
goals
can
be
achieved,
that
that
some
things
are
direct
threats
to
others
at
the
pace
that
we're
on
and
with
the
urgency
in
which
this
needs
to
happen.
F
We
do
actually
have
to
reject
those
false
choices
and
need
to
be
on
a
dialogue
and
playing
field
where
we
can
talk
about
protecting
residents,
health
and
and
ensuring
that
philadelphians
have
the
energy
they
need
and
we're
going
to
have
to
have
a
conversation
about
protecting
and
creating
union
jobs.
While
we
move
towards
you
know
a
world
in
which
the
city
is
not
reliant
on
fossil
fuels
in
the
next
over
the
next
several
decades.
F
So
the
task
is,
you
know,
is
to
figure
out
how
we
can
accomplish
these
objectives
in
a
manageable
way,
recognizing
that
some
may
accelerate
at
different
points
than
others.
Not
all
of
them
have
to
move
as
quickly
at
the
same
time,
but
they
all
have
to
move,
and
we
all
have
to
be
committed
to
to
all
of
them
so
that
both
our
residents
aren't
harmed.
F
Our
customers
aren't
harmed
our
city
is
not
harmed
and
that
we
maintain
a
strong
labor
force
in
the
process.
This
is
clearly
a
complicated
issue,
but
it
does
not
mean
that
we
stall
out
or
that
we
have
to
slow
down
things.
I
just
think
we
have
to
be
even
more
aggressive
in
exploring
pursuing
alternatives,
and
so
I
would
encourage
the
city's
sustainability
group
to
not
continue
with
feasibility
studies
but
to
start
exercising
on
smaller
scale.
Pilots,
as
we
continue
to
do
feasibility
studies
that
allow
us
to
take
a
look
at
larger
scale,
pilots.
F
So
so
that
would
be
one
just
comment
and
point
of
feedback
for
mr
shapiro.
I
did
want
to
ask
a
couple
of
follow-up
questions
to
my
colleague,
councilmember
bass,
and
I
want
to
thank
her
for
laying
out
some
of
the
questions,
but
I
I
do
want
to
be
a
little
bit
more
clear
about
what
I
understand.
Pgw's
work
to
actually
be
around
sb
275
and
to
be
clear,
the
city
of
philadelphia.
You
are
our
municipal
entity.
F
F
How
are
you
reconciling
that?
Because
I
actually
think
that,
in
order
to
do
this
appropriately
pgw
can't
be
neutral.
You
have
to
step
away,
I'm
sorry.
Today
we
have
to
step
away.
I
think
you
have
to
say
that
preemption,
a
preemption
bill
from
a
city-owned
municipality,
public
utility,
is
antithetical
to
pgw's
mission
and
to
the
city
of
philadelphia's
best
interests.
That
would
keep
us
consistent
on
our
positions,
not
neutral.
You
had
a
role
to
play
in
the
legislation
this
was
prior.
I
even
though
you
were
on
the
board,
as
you
know,
the
executive.
A
I
just
have
a
point
for
mr
shapiro.
I
just
have
a
point
of
information.
Considering
that
I
was
a
sponsor
of
that
resolution
opposing
that
work
counseling
earlier
you,
I
just
make
sure
the
full
context
of
the
question
earlier.
You
also
said,
as
a
preamble
to
this
question,
that
you
would
have
supported
the
provided,
the
privatization
of
pgw.
You
want
to
make
sure
it.
F
The
privatization
of
pgw,
particularly
specifically,
because
in
situations
like
this,
I
want
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
its
publicly
owned
utility
to
be
on
the
same
page.
We
must
we.
There
was
a
purposeful
decision
not
to
privatize
pgw,
and
I
believe
again
for
the
record,
mr
chair,
that
that
was
the
right
decision,
because
in
difficult
circumstances
we
must
hold
the
same
line
in
order
for
us
to
meet
our
common
goals
in
the
best
interests
of
our
customers,
of
our
city,
of
our
workers
and
of
our
residents.
F
And
so
that
is
why
I'm
asking
this
question
to
you
that
it's
not
enough
to
say
that
it's
okay
for
you
to
be
neutral
on
legislation
when
you
had
such
a
strong
hand,
apparently
in
crafting
it
and
maybe
even
making
it
stronger.
I
think
it's
important
with
new
leadership
at
pgw,
that
you
take
a
stand
against
sb
275
and
keep
our
public
utility
in
line
with
the
mission,
the
goals
and
the
stand
of
the
city
of
philadelphia.
F
K
K
Let
because,
because
you
made
two
really
critical
points
that
I
that
want
to
emphasize
and
provide
a
little
color
on
one
so
so
the
second
point
you
made
was
about
your
position
of
sale
and
I'm
not
here
to
opine
as
to
whether
pgw
should
have
sold
or
not,
but
to
one
of
the
points
I
made
during
my
testimony.
I
couldn't
agree
with
you
more
that
as
a
city
that
want
to
make
a
difference
with
respect
to
climate
change.
K
K
I
don't
mean
counsel,
I
mean
the
public
about
what
goes
on
in
terms
of
this
conversation
at
pgw,
so
so
this
diversification
study,
which
we
were
thrilled
to
participate
in
asks
a
very
specific
question,
and
that
question
is
how
can
the
city
to
carbon
neutrality
by
2050
and
what
role
can
pw
play
and
what
are
the
impacts?
That's
a
very
important
question
to
ask,
but
there's
another
equally
important
question
to
ask,
and
it
gets
to
your
opinion.
It's
the
question.
K
We
ask
internally
every
day
what
should
pgw
do
to
prepare
for
the
moment
natural
gas
revenues
itself
aren't
enough
to
sustain
the
company
in
our
work,
but
our
diversification
in
response
to
that
question
isn't
limited
to
things
around
climate
right.
We
have
to
look
at
this
asset,
of
which
we
are
the
stewards
for
the
city
and
say
what
are
the
skills?
What
is
this?
We
have
right,
what
are
the
things
that
our
workforce
is
good
at?
K
Our
workforce
is
good
at
customer
service
and
billing
and
infrastructure,
and
as
councilman
green
talked
about
parts
and
labor,
we
own
this
incredible
infrastructure
designed
for
the
transportation
of
molecules,
and
what
does
that
mean,
and
what
else
can
that
transportation,
network
and
infrastructure
and
rights
of
way
be
used
for
we
own
this
incredibly
valuable
lng
facility
right
and
and
we
gave
to
the
ratepayers
four
billion
dollars
with
his
lng,
and
we
continue
to
produce
revenue
through
the
lng
facility.
So
so
I
love.
K
F
K
F
K
So
so
I
would
have
said
your
your
language
of
saying
we
had
a
strong
role.
I
mean
you've
seen
the
emails,
I've
seen
the
emails
right
in
email
over
email,
our
vice
president
of
government
affairs,
says
pgw
neutral.
There
are
a
couple
emails
right
and
understand.
This
was
a
rightful
request
which
was
voluminous.
K
I
mean
pages
upon
pages
on
pages
right,
none
of
which
had
anything
to
do
with
us
aligning
on
this,
most
of
which
were
all
of
the
investor
owned
utilities,
commenting
and
everyone's
pointing
to
a
single
or
two
emails
from
one
of
our
employees,
saying
hey
when
you're
describing
energy.
Why
don't
you
describe
it
in
these
ways?
Right
I
mean
and
it's
what
I
said
to
councilman.
That's
how
kevin,
if
you
call
me
and
ask
me
about
a
bill,
what
would
your
reaction
be?
K
If
I
said
I
don't
know
if
I
agree
with
the
bill,
so
I'm
not
willing
to
your
questions.
If
you
say
what
language
would
would
encompass
this
sorts
of
things
right,
it's
our
job
to
know
how
various
bills
impact
us.
So
I
I
understand
your
frustration.
I
understand
others
frustration
I
get.
Let
me
just
let
me
just
finish
what
I
was
saying
I
get
that
preemption
is
a
is
not
a
thing
we're
in
favor
of
for
the
city
and
I've
said
that
multiple
times
and
I've
said
it
in
multiple
venues.
Right,
that's
the
issue.
K
K
F
So
my
understanding
is
pgw,
provided
line
edits
to
the
bill
line,
edits
around
a
definition
in
the
bill
prohibiting
philadelphia
from
enacting
legislation.
So
definitions
do
matter
the
feedback
matters
and
claiming
neutrality
is
or
lobbying
not
having
to
lobby
for
a
bill
that
you
provided
line
edits
for
is
a
problem
because
it
doesn't
it.
It
allows
you
for
a.
We
did
not
provide
line,
edits
we
suggested
and
by
the
way,
not
to
and
understand
just
to
everyone
else.
K
Who's
listening,
who
may
not
know
the
detail
that
you
know
our
employees
were
in
communication
with
legislative
staff
or
with
with
legislators
right.
They
were
in
a
dialogue
with
dozens
of
other
energy
industries,
and
these
are
dialogues
that
cover
a
whole
host
of
topics
and
so
to
say
that
one
of
his
peers
asked
him
what
he
thinks
the
definition
of
energy
should
be
and
for
him
to
comment.
I
I
just
think
it's
a.
F
K
So
I
did
not,
let's
just
be
very
clear,
the
myth
there
was
an
employee
who
responded,
I
believe-
and
again
I
have
to
go
pull
these
from
from
a
long
time
ago
who
who
provided
a
suggestion,
a
definition
of
a
single
term
to
a
colleague,
was
not
a
legislator
or
legislative
staff.
I
believe
that's
the
emails
that
are
creating
all
the
kerfuffle.
F
K
I
talked
before
we
have
a
number
of
regulators
and
we
answer
to
a
number
of
levels
of
government.
I
am
a
public
servant.
Okay,
if
you
call
me
and
ask
me
an
opinion,
I'm
I'm
going
to
try
and
be
a
subnautic
matter
expert
for
you
and
yes,
if
a
center
from
some
other
parts
of
the
state
calls
me
and
asks
me
a
question
for
which
I
am
a
subject
matter
expert.
I
believe
I
am
obligated
to
give
them
a
response
right.
K
You
could
be
introducing
legislation,
I
don't
agree
with,
and
I
welcome
you
if
you're,
if
you're,
introducing
legislation
that
I
personally
don't
agree
with
or
even
legislation
that
I
think
is
harmful
pgw.
I
will
still
respond
to
you
and
I
will
still
give
you
the
best
of
my
subject:
expertise
to
help
you
do
your
job.
That's
my
better
responsibility.
A
Councilman
again,
I
do
know
that
e3
has
a
time
window
and
I
know
council,
member
gilmore,
richardson
and
also
councilman
jones.
I
know
councilman
gilbert
richardson
who's.
Also
part
of
this
conversation
want
to
make
some
remarks.
So
I
just
wanted
to
be
kind
of.
This
is
my
last
question.
They
were
the
drafter
of
the
study.
F
F
F
I'm
not
aware
of
any
conversations
that
happen
between
any
pw
employees
and
aga
staff
about
275,
I'm
not
aware
of
aj
plated
yeah.
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
You
know
again.
I
just
want
to
emphasize
that
the
reason
why
pgw
is
a
municipal
utility
and
why
so
many
people
thought
to
hold
on
to
it
is
because
we
should
be
in
alignment
sb275
pgw's,
past
work
in
responding
to
sb275
is
antithetical
to
the
city
of
philadelphia's
mission.
I
consider
it
a
problem.
F
I
believe
policies
need
to
change
at
pgw
on
that
particular
issue,
and
I
do
think
that
while
I
recognize
that
you've
said
that
there
are
certain
amounts
of
benefits
from
the
american
gas
association,
they
and
their
work
also
works
to
undermine
many
of
the
goals
that
philadelphia
has
as
a
municipal
utility.
I
believe
that
you
should
cut
ties
and
that
we
should
work
together
and
partly
why
we
have
ms
lindbeyer
on
here
is
because
we
are
invested.
F
We
are
deeply
invested
in
individuals
who
conduct
these
studies
and
we
would
like
to
see
445
000
honestly
from
pgw
go
into
subject
matter
experts
who
can
bring
pgw
the
kind
of
vision
that
it
needs
to
have
to
be
a
thriving,
strong
public
municipality,
and
those
are
all
my
comments.
Thank
you
very
much,
mr
chairman.
Thank
you.
Councilman.
I
A
I
I'll
be
very
quick,
I
just
wanted
to
to
say
council
member,
I
hear
your
idea
of
you
know:
let's
not
study,
study,
let's
act,
I
think,
particularly
when
it
comes
for
the
network,
geothermal
and
and
seth
you
chime
in
here.
I
think
this
came
out
of
a
conversation
that
you
and
I
had
about
next
steps
for
pilots
is,
if
we
wanted
to
say,
let's
pilot
network
geothermal.
Where
would
it
go
where
geologically
can
philadelphia
have
geothermal?
I
You
know
board
down
in
what
is
the
workforce
that
would
be
needed
to
install
it
and
maintain
it
and
how
would
pgw
finance
it?
So
those
are
actually
so.
Those
are
like
it's
a
feasibility
study
but
they're
kind
of
the
critical
building
blocks
of
being
able
to
actually
implement
a
pilot.
So
those
are
the
key
things
that
we
would
want
to
explore.
Not
you
know
not
to
study
it
to
death,
but
to
really
figure
out.
How
do
you
get
it
done
in
a
very
logistical
way.
A
E
Thank
you
so
much
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
to
my
district
colleague
councilmember
jones,
for
this
latitude,
but
I
just
wanted
to
be
recorded
as
present
for
this
hearing.
Mr
chair,
I
am
not
a
member
of
either
of
the
committees,
but
as
the
chair
of
city
council's
committee
on
the
environment,
I
wanted
to
tune
in
to
this
hearing
and
really
have
the
opportunity
to
hear
more
about
the
diversification
study,
which
has
been
all
the
talk
and
all
of
the
conversations
that
we've
had
with
the
environmental
group.
E
I
also
just
wanted
to
mention
that
I'm
looking
forward
to
how
we
think
about
together
as
a
city,
our
goal
of
carbon
neutrality
by
2050,
and
we
will
be
proceeding
with
the
hearings
on
building
decarbonization
in
the
spring
to
to
further
think
about
our
next
steps
and,
lastly,
for
the
record.
I
just
wanted
to
know
if
there
was
a
timeline
for
next
steps.
You
know
now
that
the
study
has
been
released
on
all
the
next
step.
E
Efforts
that
have
been
mentioned,
but
I'll
be
here
listening
and
I'm
looking
forward
to
this
conversation
and
I'm
very
happy
to
see
the
level
of
interest
not
only
from
some
of
our
environmental
groups
but
from
everyone
who
now
has
a
keen
interest
in
this
issue.
So
thank
you
very
much
much
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
to
all
the
parties
involved.
A
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
to
the
chair
of
environmental
for
the
committee
for
city
council
and
her
laser
focus
on
this
issue,
and
I
appreciate
it
and
I
represent
the
fourth
district
and
whenever
one
of
those
100
year
storms
happens,
it
happens
on
main
street
where
we
have
to
dig
out
businesses
deal
with
the
flooding,
evacuate
apartment
buildings
and
it's
supposed
to
happen
every
other
every
100
years.
It
looks
like
it's
happening
every
other
year,
so
this
is
a
real
thing
for
us,
so
carbon
neutrality
at
a
particular
point
is
important.
E
E
Mr
chairman,
to
the
customers
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
Having
said
that,
a
couple
of
questions
and
I'm
glad
that
we're
now
able
to
not
be
worried
about
putting
out
the
fire,
but
looking
towards
the
future
of
this
institution,
could
you
recap
for
me:
is
there
dollars
to
be
anticipated
towards
this
effort
from
the
biden
of
infrastructure
bill.
I
I
can
take
a
stab
at
that.
That's
all
right,
council
member,
so
we're
going
through
the
through
the
infrastructure
bill.
Obviously
with
the
fine
tooth
comb.
It
depends
on.
You
know
what
you're
looking
to
do.
So
there
are
weatherization
dollars.
The
web
program
is
getting
a
big
influx
infusion
of
cash
through
infrastructure.
So
that's
great
so.
I
So
I
don't
have
an
exact
number
of
what
the
whap
amount
that
would
go
to
pennsylvania
and
then
from
pennsylvania.
They
distribute
it
to
energy
coordinating
agency,
which
is
our
local
lab
administrator.
I
don't
know
that
we
have
a
number
yet.
I
think
we
know
how
much
may
be
coming
to
pennsylvania,
but
we
don't
know
yet
how
pennsylvania
will
allocate
that
by
county.
But
I
can
check
in
with
the
eca
and
see.
I
Sure-
and
the
answer
may
just
be
that
we
don't
know
yet,
because
there
are
still
a
lot-
there's
still
a
lot
about
this
legislation
that
is
still
coming
down
and
then
there's
also
amounts
that
are
designated
to
formula
which
the
the
whap
dollars
our
formula
then
there's
competitive
grants
that
you
can.
You
know
we
can
seek
out
so
really
going
through
both
of
them
to
understand
what
formula
dollars
may
be
flowing
here
and
what
competitive
grants
we
may
want
to
actively
pursue.
I
So
the
answer
is:
there's
there's
definitely
money
in
there
for
lots
of
things
that
could
help
support
next
steps.
On
this
front
it
does
kind
of
depend
on
which
of
the
pilot
recommendations
or
the
other
recommendations
that
are
there
or
other
activities
that
seth
and
his
team
may
want
to
pursue
in
some
of
their
other
sort
of
sustainability
and
methane
reduction
goals.
You
know
for
things
like
pipe
replacements
or
fixing
methane
leaks,
so
I
think
short
answer
is
yes.
E
I
remember
also
back,
then
all
of
the
companies
were
circling
the
carcass
of
pgw.
Looking
to
pick
its
bones,
and
one
of
the
bright
spots
was
liquefied
gas
is,
is,
I
must
be
getting
old,
because
I
remember
when
gas
natural
gas
was
considered,
the
clean
industry
and
dirty
old
coal
was
the
bad
guy,
and
somehow
that
has
changed
and
I
agree.
We
need
to
look
to
the
future.
I
The
use
of
natural
gas
in
philadelphia
accounts
for
about
24
of
our
carbon
footprint,
so
it'd
be
better
than
that
from
that.
If
likely,
it's
better
that
that's
coming
from
that
than
from
coal
or
it
would
be
much
higher,
but
it
is
still
a
significant
portion
of
our
carbon
footprint.
I
couldn't
answer
your
question
about
lng.
It's
outside
of
my
area
of
expertise.
I'm
sorry,
just
one.
E
K
K
So
so,
and
let
me
let
me
for
for
those
listening
out
of
your
colleagues
or
the
public
who
aren't
aware
right
so
so
so
one
of
the
things
that
makes
gas
and
and
the
transfer
of
energy
through
molecules
battle,
is
that
that
the
difficulty
of
energy
is
storing
and
transporting
it
and
one
of
the
tools
that
makes
natural
gas
one
of
the
best
things
in
which
to
store
energy
and
transport.
It
is
the
ability
to
defy
it
when
you
liquify
natural
gas,
you
cool
it
260
degrees,
negative,
260
degrees.
K
K
The
first
thing
we
use
it
for
hedging
right,
unlike
some
of
our
investor
owned
rev
reverend,
we
can't
buy
financial
hedges
on
the
price
of
natural
gas.
We
can
physically
hedge
it
right.
We
can
put
it
into
the
tank
so
that
we
have
it
so
that
when
things
spike
right
like
whether
what
happened
in
texas
happens-
or
even
there
was
a
spike
last
week-
we're
in
parts
of
new
england
just
in
context,
we,
let's
say
right
now
we're
paying
about
four
dollars
for
gas.
There's
a
spike.
K
Last
week
in
new
england,
where
gas
was
15
right,
we
have
the
ability
to
vaporize
that
stored
liquid,
so
that
helps
and
we
estimate
we've
saved
over
the
life
of
those
tanks.
Four
billion
dollars
billion
big
dollars
for
our
customers.
The
other
thing
it
allows
us
to
do
is
provide
for
our
peak
day
right
so
as
any
gas
utility.
K
The
regulations
that
both
come
from
the
public
utility
commission
and
from
ferc
the
federal
energy
regulatory
commission
require
us
to
have
a
gas
law
for
the
sort
of
peak
design
day
that
you
think
you're
going
to
get
and
to
put
a
little
a
little
flavor
to
that
peak
day.
Our
peak
design
day
is
right.
Around
700
mcf
million
cubic
feet.
Okay,
we
have
the
capacity
on
pipelines
to
bring
300
mcf
a
day.
K
We
have
the
ability
to
bring
from
the
storage
we
have
out
along
those
pipes,
another
120.,
the
rest,
the
other
280,
that
we
would
need
if
there's
a
cold
day,
so
that
we
don't
turn
off
gas,
the
customers
we
get
by
vaporizing,
turning
back
into
gas
that
was
stored
there.
So
it
is
this
monumental
thing
that
we
have
the
supply.
K
It
puts
us
in
a
better
situation
than
many
many
many
of
our
peers,
and
in
fact
it's
why
that,
despite
all
the
municipal
ownership,
we
still
tend
to
have
one
of
the
lowest
prices
of
the
quantity
of
gas,
of
all
the
utilities
in
pennsylvania.
So
so
the
lng
is
a
huge
huge,
huge
attribute.
It
also
has
great
values.
We
also
have
the
ability
to
vaporize
gas
and
then
sell
those
reservations
in
the
pipeline
that
I
talk
about
and
turn
that
into
dollars
and
that
gets
into
the
diversification
strategy.
We
can
use
that
asset.
E
K
Greatly
right
and
one
of
the
weird
things
is
the
way
natural
gas
pipelines
work
right.
There's
gas
filling
up
pipe.
The
pipes
actually
flow
south
until
I
don't
know
virginia
north
carolina
and
north
from
the
gulf
south
of
that,
and
it
varies
based
upon
time
of
the
year.
So
I
would
tell
you
that
we
may
buy
molecules
far
south
of
us,
so
the
the
bus
we're
paying
is
based
there,
but
the
actual
molecules
we
get
will
actually
come
from
marcellus
shale
right,
so
you're
not
always
getting
gas
from
where
you
buy
it.
K
That's
just
the
nature
of
the
commodity
trade.
I
would
tell
you
that
in
the
summer
and
and
into
the
sort
of
shoulder
seasons,
the
likelihood
is
almost
all
of
the
gas
we
have
is
coming
from
shale
coming
from
shale
gras
gas
like
doming
and
south
or
somewhere
over
there
in
the
winter.
My
guess
is
it's
closer
to
a
350
split.
If
you
wanted
more
specificity,
I
could
ask
someone,
unlike
you,
and
I
at
least
pretend
to
be
an
engineer.
K
E
K
Not
only
with
rng,
but
if
you
could
insert
a
hydrogen
there
there's
still,
I
don't
think
it
was
so
there's
talk
about
that
that
the
sort
of
they're
still
out
on
that.
I
think
that
if
you
were
to
to
all
the
industry,
they
would
tell
you
that
much
more
than
five
percent,
I'm
sure
of
right
part
of
it
is
the
molecules
are
of
a
different
density.
The
molecules
are
of
a
different
ignition
profile.
K
It
would
change
our
leaks
drop
conceivably
because
the
molecules
are
different,
so
so
we're
still
doing
fibility
on
what
we
could
do
for
hydrogen.
As
we
talk
about
different
sort
of
pilots
we're
looking
at,
we
are
looking
at
pilots
that
might
inject
this
little
amount
of
hydrogen
into
our
existing
pipes.
We're
also
looking
at
whether
you
can
create
a
stand-alone
hydrogen
network
right
like
we
love
the
idea
of
creating
a
geothermal
micro
grid
and
finding
a
place
to
do
a
pi
where
you're
not
co-mingling,
geothermal,
obviously
with
natural
gas
creating
its
own
infrastructure.
K
A
A
Seeing
none
and
thank
you
all
and
we
do
look
to
have
a
follow-up
conversation
on
this
issue
in
another
hearing
and
in
that
hour
conversation
some
of
the
other
potential
partners.
Hopefully
we
can
have
them
in
that
conversation,
especially
some
of
the
other
departments
in
the
city
and
some
of
the
other
non-government
entities
that
can
help
us
in
moving
this
conversation
forward.
A
A
A
M
M
That's
referred
to
in
the
pgw
report,
as
networked
geothermal,
the
system
uses
known
and
proven
technology
there's
similar
installations
and
campuses
across
the
country.
Our
innovation
is
to
have
the
gas
utilities
installed
and
operated
in
the
right
of
way
of
the
street
networked
ground
source
heat
pumps
are
the
most
efficient
method
of
providing
heating
and
cooling
known,
and
let
me
just
quickly
acknowledge
what
mr
shapiro
said
with
great
respect.
M
A
new
gas
boiler
can
burn
up
to
97
percent
efficiency,
and
that
means
it
delivers
less
than
one
unit
of
heat
to
the
home
for
each
one
unit
of
energy
used
the
geo
grid
by
moving
heat
sort
of
the
same
way.
Your
fridge
does,
rather
than
making
it
through
combustion
can
move
six
six
to
eight
units
of
energy
per
one
unit
of
energy
used.
That's
a
lot
better.
Also.
I
believe
page
29
of
the
e3
report
refutes
the
statement
about
the
impact
of
building
electrification
on
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
M
It
will
lower
greenhouse
gas
emissions
so
and
I
just
as
a
second
thing,
I've
got
a
new
expensive
gas
boiler
a
while
ago,
and
I
did
that
because
I
thought
it
was
the
cleanest
way
to
go
forward.
However,
gas
unburned
is
overwhelmingly
methane.
A
potent
greenhouse
gas
new
research
shows
that,
if
more
than
three
percent
of
it
is
leaked
without
being
used
without
being
burned
anywhere
from
the
well
head
to
your
stove,
it's
worse
than
coal,
I
don't
want
the
city
in
its
emissions
reduction
work
to
make
the
same
expensive
mistake.
M
I
did
the
pgw
diversification
study
goals
are
to
reduce
emissions,
benefit
low-income
customers
and
provide
long-term
workforce
opportunities,
and
the
geo
grid
can
meet
all
of
these
goals.
Emissions.
The
geo
grid
runs
on
electricity
since
it's
so
efficient
it
needs
only
a
tiny
amount
of
electricity.
M
No
one
wants
to
increase
that
burden,
but
if
we
continue
with
the
business
as
usual,
this
is
exactly
what's
likely
to
happen.
As
nikki
explained
before.
As
customers
move
off
the
system,
they
will
raise
gas
heating
bills
for
those
who
remain
in
the
end,
the
only
ones
left
will
be
the
low
income
and
the
city
might
have
to
pay
for
stranded
assets.
M
N
Well,
I
have
to
manage
to
unmute
and
unshare
and
turn
my
camera
on
there.
We
go.
Does
that
work
out
excellent,
I'm
zainab
magavi,
the
other
co-executive
director
of
heat,
and
I
just
want
to
start
by
saying
I
so
admire
the
complexity
of
the
conversation
you're
having
here
today,
and
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
participate.
N
N
N
N
So
you
can
address
both
these
types
of
risk
by
redirecting
that
infrastructure
spending
to
replace
the
old
gas
infrastructure
with
the
geogrid
instead,
where
possible.
If
you
do
this
at
the
same
pace
as
the
cast
iron
is
being
replaced
today,
nearly
half
of
your
pgw
system
could
be
modern,
non-emitting
infrastructure
by
2057.
N
growing,
a
new
diversified
and
future-proof
business
model
that
best
meets
your
customer
needs
needs
like
low
monthly
energy
bills
and
yes,
the
geogra
does
cost
more
to
install,
so
it
sounds
confusing,
but
a
massachusetts
economic
analysis
predicted
lower
customer
energy
bills.
Why?
Because
the
increased
insulation
costs
spread
over
decades
were
entirely
offset
by
the
greatly
reduced
fuel
cost
also
needs
like
better
indoor
air
quality,
to
mention
the
public
health
impacts,
more
cooling
and
no
explosions
yeah,
that's
good
too.
N
N
So
three
quick,
closing
notes
for
attaching
testimony
submitted
in
a
massachusetts
rate
case
where
national
grid
gas
was
approved
in
december
to
rate
base
four
different
installations
of
the
geograph.
The
testimony
is
from
steve
bryant,
the
ex-head
of
columbia,
gas,
describing
why
he
thinks
this
is
a
good
business
model
for
gas
utility
and
from
carrie
smith
to
the
grey
edge
group
describing
the
engineering
paradigms.
N
J
Bit
of
background
about
rmi
we're
an
independent
nonpartisan
nonprofit
organization,
whose
mission
it
is
to
transform
the
global
energy
system
to
secure
a
clean,
prosperous
and
zero
carbon
future
for
all
in
2019.
A
colleague
of
mine
actually
testified
in
front
of
this
body
on
the
need
for
proactive
planning
for
pgw
to
equitably
achieve
philadelphia's,
climate
and
economic
goals.
J
The
challenge
is
that
pgw
will
need
to
significantly
evolve
in
the
next
decade
to
maintain
its
financial
viability
and
workforce,
but
this
challenge
actually
also
presents
a
really
great
opportunity
for
the
city
to
improve
its
aging
housing
stock,
reduce
carbon
emissions
and
improve
local
air
quality
and
health.
There's
a
few
items
we'd
like
this
body
to
consider.
J
First,
while
there
are
a
range
of
options,
the
study
presents
a
clear
conclusion
that
decarbonized
gas
is
not
a
solution
to
pgw's
business
model
challenge
or
for
buildings.
The
study
itself
finds
that
using
decarbonized
gases
for
more
than
15
percent
of
required
gas
supply
in
buildings
presents
significant
financial
concerns.
J
Second,
proactive
planning
and
action
from
the
city
and
pgw
this
decade
can
ensure
an
equitable
and
prosperous
energy
transition.
Regulators
should
explore
non-pipe
alternatives
to
gas
investments
and
to
diversify
pgw's
business.
This
includes
neighborhood
level,
electrification
measures
and
network
geothermal
pilots
that
we've
been
talking
about.
The
savings
of
doing
so
could
be
significant.
Pgw
is
slated
to
spend
more
than
600
million
dollars
through
2027,
replacing
or
building
out
its
aging
gas
system.
J
Low
hanging
fruit
to
consider
include
requiring
all-electric
new
construction,
ensuring
that
oil
or
propane
heating
customers
are
prioritized
for
electrification
first,
because
that
is
the
most
cost
effective
scenario
in
which
to
electrify
and
slowing
down
gas
infrastructure
replacement
programs.
While
triaging
leaks,
third,
the
city
should
prioritize
solutions
for
low-income
households.
J
This
includes
electrification
subsidies,
embedding
electrification
into
existing
city
programs
and
reforming
low-income
electricity
rate
structures.
Philadelphia
has
a
once-in-a-generation
opportunity
to
secure
opportunities
for
its
workers
and
the
city's
residents,
but
only
through
proactive
and
transparent
planning.
Thank
you.
So
much
for
your
time.
A
I
just
have
a
quick
question
for
the
two
representatives
from
heat,
and
I
want
to
get
some
perspective
on
this
concept,
assuming
that
we
did
not
have
the
issues
that
we
have
with
the
puc
like
we
have
with
renewable
natural
gas
pilot
that
pgw
attempted
if
there
was
a
company.
Let's
say
that
wanted
to
come
to
the
city
of
philadelphia
and
said
we
want
to
have
some
type
of
district,
geothermal
and
reference
to
provide
energy
to
our
business,
and
we
did
that
at
a
location
that
we
control.
A
N
So
I'll
just
start
briefly
with
the
word
geothermal,
which
has
caused.
We
have
so
much
headache
because
it
means
four
different
technologies
really
and
if
you
drill
very
deep
in
the
earth
we're
talking
mile
two
miles,
you
know
and
get
some
something:
hot
hot
water,
hot
steam,
hot
lava,
you
you
are,
you
are
doing
something
quite
different
than
what
we're
proposing,
which
is
just
to
go
a
couple
hundred
feet
down
with
a
very
small
borehole.
N
M
The
in
at
national
grid
and
at
eversource
they
will
probably
they're
going
to
be
probably
using
a
third
party
to
do
the
design
and
install
because
they
don't
have
yet
experience
on
their
workforce.
To
do
that,
I
believe
nash,
you
know
national
grid
might
might
not.
We
do
not
know
yet
whether
they
will
actually
have
their
workforce
there
to
to
over.
You
know
to
to
watch
and
learn
about
it.
We
encourage
greatly
to
whoever
does
it
to
have
their
workforce
there.
N
Area
and
some
some
of
the
skills
that
the
existing
gas
workers
have-
and
you
know
in
our
area,
it's
steel
workers
that
are
doing
the
repairs,
for
example,
are
the
same
skills
that
you
would
need
for
this
system
like,
but
fusing
hdpe
pipe,
for
example,
same
skill
already
certified.
So
there's
a
lot
of
transferability.
That's
ready
to
go.
N
A
A
O
O
I
cls's
energy
unit
advocates
to
ensure
that
philadelphia
households
have
access
to
affordable
water,
heat
and
electricity
in
their
homes.
Cls
energy
unit
serves
two
important
roles.
We
serve
as
public
advocate
representing
pgw's
residential
customers
in
matters
before
the
philadelphia
gas
commission,
and
we
represent
individual,
low-income
utility
customers
in
affording
restoring
and
maintaining
utility
service
and
groups
of
customers
seeking
improvements
to
programs
and
policies
that
benefit
low
income
utility
customers.
O
As
the
study
notes,
philadelphia,
households
already
face
high
energy
burdens,
free
home
repair
and
weatherization
programs
are
critical
to
reducing
energy
costs
and
keeping
people
healthy
and
safe.
We
urge
the
city
and
pgw
to
utilize
all
available
resources
to
provide
free
home,
repair,
weatherization
and
energy
efficiency
to
low
and
moderate
income.
Homeowners
and
tenants,
but
these
programs
must
be
free.
O
O
Studies
have
noted
that
these
loans
are
inappropriate
for
pgw's
residential
customer
base,
showing
that
they
quickly
become
unaffordable
for
the
people
they
are
supposed
to
be
helping
households
enrolled
in
the
customer,
responsibility
program
or
crp
pgw's
low-income
bill
assistance
program
are
unlikely
to
benefit
from
any
supposed
cost
savings
because
crp
rates
are
calculated
based
on
income,
not
usage.
These
low-income
customers
would
only
incur
higher
monthly
bills.
Increasing
monthly
costs
to
low-income
customers
is
not
a
viable
option,
short-term
or
otherwise,
and
the
recommendation
to
pursue
it
should
be
rejected
as
a
non-starter.
O
Pgw
also
already
has
a
low
income
usage
reduction
program
which
provides
free,
weatherization
and
usage
reduction
services
to
low-income
customers.
If
we
want
to
keep
people
safe
in
their
home,
the
city
must
think
creatively
about
sources
of
funding
and
methods
to
implement
programs
that
address
home
habitability
and
efficiency
rather
than
provide
financing
through
loans.
Pgw
could
prioritize
and
invest
in
expanding
its
weatherization
programs
to
promote
efficiency
and
usage
reduction
and
explore
ways
to
partner
with
the
city
to
pair
these
usage
reduction
efforts
with
basic
home
repairs.
O
Ultimately,
people
should
get
to
live
in
safe
and
healthy
homes,
regardless
of
how
they
heat
their
homes.
Congress
is
making
3.5
billion
available
for
weatherization
assistance
through
the
infrastructure,
investment
and
jobs
act.
Pennsylvania
stands
to
have
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
to
make
these
investments
at
no
cost
to
the
recipients.
G
Sure
bill
cross
president
and
ceo
of
vicinity
energy,
first
of
all,
I'd
just
like
to
thank
chairman,
green
and
chairman
johnson
for
inviting
me
to
participate.
It's
much
appreciated
we're
a
significant
energy
player
in
center
city
in
west
philly,
certainly
not
in
in
a
broader
geographical
time
context,
but
we
play
an
important
part
there.
G
So
our
company
operates
the
largest
owns
and
operates
the
largest
portfolio
of
district
energy
networks
in
north
america,
in
12
cities
about
19,
separate
districts,
the
largest
of
those
is
philadelphia
and
where
they
have
no
philly's
district
energy
system
is
the
second
largest
on
the
continent.
Just
right
behind
manhattan,
so
con
ed
system
is,
is
a
bit
bigger.
G
That
of
that
that
asset
class
that
unique
and
invaluable
asset
class
is
what
I
want
to
talk
about
because,
as
many
people
have
stated,
there's
no
silver
bullet
in
this
battle
to
get
into
net
carbon
zero
period.
We've
got
to
use
every
tool
in
the
toolbox,
so
I'm
here
to
talk
about
our
tool
and
how
it
can
work
and
in
some
ways
we
can
work
with
pgw.
In
some
ways
we
can
work
independently,
but
bottom
line.
G
Is
you
know,
philly
needs
to
use
all
the
tools
it
has
and
on
that
front,
and
as
far
as
deep
cargo
decarbonization,
given
the
fact
that
we
operate
in
many
different
cities,
we
see
many
many
different
policies.
We
see
many
different
gas
markets,
electric
markets
and
what
we
try
to
do
is
learn
from
the
best
and
then
pass
it
along.
So
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
some
stuff,
that's
going
on
inside
philly
and
outside
philly,
but
what
can
apply
to
philly
in
the
future?
So
I'll
start
with
president
and
go
to
future.
G
So
today
we
operate
the
this
large
district
in
philly.
It's
at
its
core.
Its
heart
is
the
largest
combined
heat
and
power
plant
in
the
commonwealth.
So
that's
grace
ferry
sitting
down
at
the
old
pico
station,
which
we
now
own
in
south
philly
that
plant
today
by
established
mechanisms
established
science,
that's
recognized
by
the
federal
epa
pennsylvania's
dep
under
you
know
the
methods
of
how
you
you
calculate
using
chp
to
electrify
and
heat
versus
conventional
means
avoids
over
300
000
tons
per
year
of
carbon
in
philly.
G
So
that
means
for
everybody,
who's
breathing
the
air.
In
the
greater
philly
bubble
and
as
we
know,
that
bubble
doesn't
draw
lines
at
neighborhoods,
it's
everybody
today
we're
avoiding
300
000
tons
of
carbon
by
otherwise
using
conventional
means,
and
why
is
that?
Just
fundamentally
combining
power?
You
know:
seth
talked
about
power
plants
right
that
put
electricity
on
the
grid.
G
The
big
difference
in
the
chp
plant
is
at
big
power
plants.
You
see
a
cooling
tower
well
that
100
year
old
technology
uses
steam
turbines
has
to
condense
the
steam
coming
out
of
the
back
end
for
the
process
to
work,
and
it
throws
that
energy
away
up
a
cooling
tower
or
into
a
river
or
into
the
ocean.
That's
just
the
the
technology
that's
been
around
for
a
while
for
power,
gen
power
generation,
the
difference
with
chp
is
we
don't
throw
it
away?
G
We
put
it
in
the
pipes
and
we
heat
the
city,
so
we're
dramatically
more
efficient
than
conventional
power
plants
and,
in
fact,
with
the
greenest
whey,
the
most
the
lowest
carbon
way
to
burn
methane
large
scale.
Okay,
that's
present
and
we'll
talk
about
the
future,
but
that's
today
and
the
benefit
of
that.
We
distribute
that
to
30
miles
of
very
robust
underground
piping
that
was
frankly
built
and
designed
back
in
the
day,
but
it's
in
in
fantastic
shape,
which
we
maintain.
G
G
G
We
touch
the
hospitals,
we
touch
municipal
buildings,
commercial
space,
hotels,
art
museums,
sports
venues,
life
science
and
in
philly,
that's
75
million
square
feet
of
heating,
and
in
the
summer
25
million
square
feet
of
cooling.
That's
the
equivalent
50
comcast
tower.
So
a
lot
of
people
don't
understand
the
touch
we
have
on
downtown,
but
but
that's
the
nature
of
what
it
is
our
company
is.
We
view
ourselves
as
an
environmental
company
and
that
may
sound
funny
because
you
say
wait
a
minute.
G
So
that's
you
know
just
something
that
we
consider
as
we're
looking
forward.
You
know
and
another
important
part.
You
know:
we've
invested.
Our
companies
invested,
probably
north
of
300
million
in
greening
of
assets
over
the
over
the
last
decade.
That's
all
private
money.
That's
not!
I
mean
you
know,
that's
not
taxpayers
money,
it's
not!
Citizens
buying,
shareholder
money,
in
our
case,
we're
owned
by
folks,
we're
basically
funded
by
pension
funds.
G
Let
me
move
on
to
the
future.
So
that's
today
what
we
ought,
what
we
have
and
what
we
offer,
which
again
is
kind
of
irreplaceable
type
infrastructure.
There's
not
many
cities
that
have
it
and
the
ones
that
have
it
are
lucky
to
have
it
the
future.
So
we
issued
like
many
institutions
and
governments,
a
2050
net,
zero
plan
right
and
it's
going
to
happen
quicker
in
some
cities
than
it
happens.
In
others,
policy
will
drive
it
asset
assets
will
drive
it
investment,
you
know.
G
G
two
big
cities,
we've
studied
is
boston
and
philly
and
because
boston's
as
you've
heard
some
of
the
other
speakers
they're,
you
know
where
they
are
at
the
end
of
the
gas
pipe.
You
know
it
used
to
be
from
the
gulf
of
mexico.
The
last
stop
on
the
line
was
boston.
They
had
suffered
through
price
spikes
shortages
interruptions.
G
G
G
So
it's
a
it's
a
tall
order
of
business
for
existing
businesses.
Okay,
for
new
businesses.
They
got
to
be
a
little
bit
worried
about
cities
that
are
trying
to
say
wait
a
minute.
I've
got
to
get
x
number
of
gigawatts
into
this
city
in
the
next
10
years
to
be
able
to
deliver.
Let's
say
the
offshore
wind
farms
come
on
and
they
will.
It's
happened
around
the
world.
G
It's
happened
in
texas,
it's
happening
up
in
the
midwest,
that's
a
challenge
for
new
buildings,
because
they're
trying
to
project
what's
the
cost
of
that
distribution
tariff
going
to
be
in
the
future?
Okay,
so
we
started
thinking
about
this
said:
wait
a
minute
in
our
big
cities
like
boston
and
philly.
We
have
big
power
plant,
a
big
chp
plant
combining
power
plant,
we're
connected
to
the
grid.
G
Already
the
high
voltage
grid,
which
means
wholesale
access,
which
means
wholesale
pricing,
which
means
we're
already
on
the
backbone
of
the
grid,
we're
not
out
on
the
distribution
system,
and
we
looked
at,
we
said,
wait
a
minute.
We
can
electrify
do
it
quickly
and
we
can
do
it
economically
and
the
buildings
that
are
attached
to
us
don't
need
to
do
a
damn
thing,
pretty
good.
So
I'll
give
you
the
quick
version
of
what
that
means.
First
version
is
large-scale
industrial
electric
boilers,
so
we
can
import
right
off
the
grid.
G
We're
already
attached
we're
already
moving
on
this
in
boston.
Frankly,
we've
already
designed
this
and
we're
out
taking
bids
on
on
phase
one
so
large
scale,
electric
boilers
pull
power
off
the
grid
and
that's
not
inconsistent
with
the
fact
that
the
chp
is
running
so
the
grid
still
will
tell
for
now.
Well,
those
plants
are
still
viable
to
make
power.
It's
not
inconsistent.
We
can
also
be
buying
power.
At
the
same
time.
That's
renewable
so
we'll
buy
that
power,
we'll
convert
it
at
100
efficiency.
That's
good!
It's
not
heat
pump
conversion,
but
it's
still
100.
G
G
So
if
you
look
over
time
our
plants
used
to
use
coal,
then
they
used
oil.
Then
they
went
to
gas
now
they're
chp.
So
the
next
step,
when
we
go
to
electrifying,
use
renewable
electrons,
the
steam
doesn't
care
it's
just
moving
energy
around.
It
already
exists
that
network's
in
the
ground
and
it's
connected
to
the
building.
So
you
have
to
buy
it,
you
have
to
pay
for
it.
It's
there.
G
So
that's
step
one
step
two,
as
we
heard
a
lot
of
talk
about
heat
pumps,
okay,
well,
just
like
in
boston
philly,
we
sit
on
two
rivers
that
we
use
today.
We
pull
water
out
of
those
rivers
today
and
use
it
as
cooling
in
our
plants
we
already
designed-
and
this
will
be
the
first
of
its
type
industrial
scale-
heat
pump
complex.
It's
not
the
type
of
heat
pumps
you're
going
to
get
in
your
in
your
home
in
your
hospital
in
your
commercial
building.
G
They
use
very
different
refrigerants
and
you
basically
are
not
going
to
get
them
permanent
in
those
type
of
environments,
because
there's
hazards
related
to
them
which
are
fine
in
an
industrial
complex.
Not
in
your
house,
not
in
your
hospital.
We
will.
We
will
end
up
using
electricity,
and
today
it
could
be
brown
electricity
in
the
future.
G
So
we
all
talk
about
storage
right
everybody.
You
know
the
the
whole
storage
issue.
Storage
is
challenging
to
site.
You
need
lots
of
storage
to
bake,
take
gigawatts
of
wind
and
move
it
from
when
it
blows
at
night
in
the
winter
to
the
morning
when
the
buildings
need
heat
right,
so
you
need
electrical
storage.
G
We've
under
designed
large
thermal
storage
facilities
on
our
plants,
like
at
schuylkill
or
in
the
case
of
boston
at
kendall,
where
we'll
have
molten
salt
batteries,
so
in
the
middle
of
the
night,
when
power
pricing
for
wind
is
zero
or
negative,
zero
or
negative
for
wind
power,
that's
what
happened!
Ubiquitously
in
texas,
it's
happened
in
every
market.
Where
you
get
this
introduction
of
renewables
up
against
conventional
fossil
plants
that
set
the
market,
we
will
be
able
to
buy
that
electricity
convert
it
to
steam.
G
If
we,
if
it's
at
the
right
time,
if
not
we'll
melt
salt
and
in
the
morning,
we'll
make
steam
with
it.
So
these
are
all
existing
technologies
on
a
scale
of
magnitude
they're,
not
that
expensive
and
it's
all
proven
technology
and
our
facility
is
uniquely
situated
to
do
that.
So,
if
you
think
of
it
this
way
today
we're
sitting
on
this
energy
distribution
network.
That's
got
this
the
biggest
chp
in
the
state.
We
should
use
more
of
big
tool
in
the
future.
G
It
represents
a
tool
that,
for
a
downtown
where
energy
density
needs
are
very
high,
is
hard
to
it's
really
hard
to
replicate.
So
I
I've
spoken
some
of
the
folks
who
are
on
this
on
the
last
panel
about
the
geo
networks,
they're
fantastic
they're,
great
in
residential
neighborhoods
and
in
some
lighter
commercial
neighborhoods,
like
the
navy
yard,
may
work
when
you
get
into
urban
cores,
it's
very
challenging
to
pull
that
much
energy
out
of
the
holes
you
punch
in
the
ground.
G
So
we
need
all
these
tools
and
I
think
what
we
really
represent
for
philly
is
a
great
big
tool
for
center
city
for
west
philly,
for
basically
the
densh,
the
dense
construct
of
philly,
that's
high
rises
and
big
buildings,
and
we
can
decarbonize
rapidly
and
here's
the
final
kicker
too.
On
kind
of
where
we
stand
in
this,
I
told
you
we've
designed
it
we're
moving
forward.
G
Con
ed
came
out
with
their
podcast
recently
and
said
they're
considering
it.
They
covered
a
bit
of
this
in
their
own
study
on
what
to
do,
for
you
know
their
diversification
and
how
their
steam
network
could
work
they're
following
our
lead,
I
think
we're
we're
really
leading
a
paradigm
shift
for
district
energy
where,
wherever
these
districts
exist,
where
you've
got
a
central
plant
where
you
can
make
a
change
and
then
touch
all
of
the
buildings
on
it.
G
That's
the
place
to
make
these
changes
and
grab
big
chunks
of
cities,
big
swaths
of
buildings
in
these
rapid
conversions.
So
I
mean,
I
think,
we're
really
excited
about
it,
and
then
you
know
another
point
to
make.
Is
I
mentioned
the
the
the
funding
available
we
we
recently
were
acquired
by
a
fund.
Okay.
G
When
we
went
to
market
to
sell
these
district
energy
assets,
we
had
over
a
hundred
funds
respond.
I
didn't
know
there
were
that
many
funds
honestly
50
asked
for
a
book
30
bid.
There
is
such
a
mountain
of
money
out
there,
low-cost
capital,
private
money,
that's
trying
to
invest
in
these
type
of
energy
in
this
type
of
energy
infrastructure,
we're
ready
to
grow
with
philly
and
help
decarbonize,
and
we've
got
the
technical
where,
with
all
the
existing
assets
and
the
financial
backing
to
do
it,
and
we
just
hope
that
philly
recognizes
it.
G
As
you
know,
all
the
tools
need
to
get
used
and
we
want
to.
You
know
we
want
to
be
part
of
that
solution
and,
to
the
extent
we
we
can
partner
with
pgw,
to
do
that
because
remember
all
of
the
fuel
that
we
burn
in
that
big
chp
comes
through
pgw.
You
know
at
present,
so
we're
a
bit
joined
at
the
hip
now
anyway.
G
A
Thank
you
for
your
testimony.
I
actually
had
a
question
about
the
distinction
between
vincenti
and
pete,
and
you
kind
of
answered
that
in
your
presentation,
so
I
I
appreciate
it
provide
a
lot
of
perspective
on
in
different
capacities
where
the
cindy
could
partner
with
pgw
the
currently
partner
with
pgw,
but
also
going
to
the
future.
So
thank
you
for
your
testimony.
P
Hi,
thank
you
I
am
in
my
car
now,
so
I
hope
you
can
excuse
me
I'm
in
the
process
of
picking
kids
up
from
school.
So
I
will
read
my
testimony.
Can
everybody
hear
me?
Okay,
okay,
to
quote
the
inquires
editorial
board.
Philadelphia
needs
to
think
creatively
about
ways
that
utility
can
utilize
its
workforce
revenues
and,
if
appropriate,
existing
infrastructure
in
a
way
that
solidifies
commitment
to
jobs,
housing,
justice
and
climate
change,
the
energy
future
of
our
city
depends
on
it.
P
I
would
like
to
draw
attention
to
the
footnote
number
19
in
the
e3
pgw
diversification
study.
I
believe
there
is
great
value
in
paying
attention
to
what
is
not
being
said.
Footnote
19
basically
clarifies
that
the
decarbonized
gas
option
still
emits
carbon.
The
devil
is
in
the
details
here.
Not
only
would
the
so-called
decarbonized
gas
gas
method
be
terribly
expensive
for
philadelphia's
already
overburdened
residents,
it
would
also
not
really
decarbonize
the
system
that
we're
trying
to
decarbonize
the
full
cost
and
toxicity
issues,
including
storage,
are
emitted
from
the
study.
P
So
too
are
the
full
life
cycle
cost
of
the
for-profit
industry.
One
cannot
simply
ignore
the
life
cycle.
Carbon
emissions
of
fuels,
because
the
life
cycle
actually
matters.
There
is
a
growing
body
of
work
that
has
been
emerging
in
recent
years,
addressing
the
human
rights
and
rights
of
nature,
implications
of
fracking
and
climate
change.
P
I
have
seen
the
industry's
destruction
with
my
own
eyes.
I
have
seen
its
invisible
toxicity
through
a
flare
camera.
I
have
smelled
the
air.
I
have
gotten
sick
to
my
stomach,
developed,
headaches,
sinus
pains,
nosebleeds
and
congestion
in
short
visits
to
gas
patches
at
one
landfill
that
collects
fracked
waste.
My
tongue
went
numb
when
I
removed
the
met.
My
mask
16
people
on
that
street
have
had
cancer
since
they
started
receiving
cracking
waste.
Only
three
of
them
were
alive
at
my
last
visit.
P
P
This
e3
study
and
admitted
in
a
footnote
that
biomethane
and
synthetic
natural
gas
still
release
co2
into
the
atmosphere.
Yet
the
study
falsely
represented
these
carbon
emitting
processes
as
carbon
neutral
fuels.
The
e3
study
omitted
the
human
rights
violations
entangled
in
the
so-called
decarbonized
process
too.
Morbidity
and
mortality
did
not
even
make
it
into
the
footnotes.
P
The
inaccurately
named
decarbonized
gas
process
would
bring
high
costs
to
philadelphians
and
still
have
the
unwanted,
negative
and
far-reaching
health
consequences
of
pollution.
It
is
a
false
solution,
a
green,
washing
for-profit
overreach
that
will
ultimately
endanger
our
health
and
shared
climate.
The
city
needs
to
the
city
need
not
bother
stagnating,
an
industry-pushed
false
solution.
While
there
are
sustainable
solutions
under
our
feet,
pgw
started
its
business
in
gaslighting.
P
A
A
Seeing
that,
and
also
just
to
remind
the
previous
panelists
and
also
current
and
future
panelists,
if
you
have
your
testimony,
writing
please
send
that
to
my
office.
So
that
way
we
can
use
that
going
forward
to
try
to
publish
all
of
the
testimony
working
with
office
of
sustainability,
so
people
who
are
not
able
to
attend
or
have
to
leave
early
can
see.
The
information
that's
been
provided
this
afternoon
just
want
to
thank
all
of
you
for
your
patience
and
your
information
to
add
to
today's
conversation
and
make
it
a
robust
dialogue
with
that.
A
B
All
right,
thank
you
good
afternoon.
My
name
is
tom
schuster,
I'm
the
clean
energy
program
director
for
the
sierra
club,
pennsylvania
chapter
sierra
club
recognizes
that
time
is
running
out
to
address
the
climate
crisis
and
that
we
must
reduce
our
greenhouse
gas
emissions
by
50
by
2030
and
eliminate
them
by
2050,
and
we're
pleased
that
the
city
and
pgw
are
exploring
options
for
decarbonizing
the
gas
utility.
B
But
the
final
report
and
its
recommendations
lack
the
urgency
and
the
ambition
that
the
climate
crisis
demands.
Despite
acknowledging
on
page
four,
that
the
necessary
scale
of
the
transformation
is
significant,
indicating
that
near-term
action
is
required
in
order
to
achieve
net
zero
emissions
by
2050..
B
B
Philadelphia,
specific
feasibility
study
could
be
useful,
but
the
completion
of
such
a
study
should
not
be
a
prerequisite
for
initiating
a
real
world
pilot
project.
In
fact,
one
or
more
pilots
would
prove
to
be
very
informative
to
such
a
study,
and
I
think
that,
based
on
comments
earlier,
that
may
be
maybe
the
direction
that
we're
headed,
but
we
need
to
move
quickly
on
this
second
immediately
address
the
report's
page
5.
B
Utility
must
have
the
flexibility
to
provide
services
other
than
gas
delivery
and
collect
revenue
for
their
services
and
third
set
interim
mandatory
ghd
reduction
targets
for
pgw
for
each
five
year,
interval
between
now
and
2050.
such
goals
in
progress
reports
toward
them
are
critical
to
ensure
near-term
action
that
the
report
recognizes
is
necessary.
B
B
In
addition,
the
emissions
benefits
of
intentionally
generating
additional
methane
from
biological
sources
are
suspect,
as
even
modest
leaks
during
production,
storage
or
distribution
and
delivery
will
cancel
out.
The
climate
benefits
of
displacing
correct
gas.
Biomethane
is
still
methane
and
it's
very
damaging
to
the
climate.
Therefore,
the
use
of
decarbonized
gas
should
be
limited
to
end
uses
that
prove
particularly
difficult
or
expensive
to
electrify,
which
should
happen
much
later.
If
at
all,
we
fully
support
the
recommendation
to
ramp
up
existing
weatherization
programs
to
reduce
gas
consumption,
particularly
by
low-income
customers.
B
The
city
should
look
to
expand
the
availability
of
grant
funding
to
cover
expanded,
weatherization
programs,
and
fortunately,
there
are
new
possible
sources
of
funding
emerging,
including
allowance
proceeds
from
the
regional
greenhouse
gas
initiative
and
the
federal
bipartisan
infrastructure
law.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
time
today,
and
that
is
all
I
have.
A
Q
The
council
has
submitted
more
detailed
comments,
so
please
review
those
as
well
as
listening
to
my
testimony
today.
The
council
strongly
supports
continuing
to
meet
on
this
topic
and
encourages
the
committees
on
finance
and
transportation
public
utilities
to
hold
additional
joint
hearings
into
the
need
for
pgws
to
diversify
its
operations
beyond
fossil
gas.
We're
happy
to
see
that
the
study
was
undertaken
and
e3's
presentation
today
highlighted
a
few
very
promising
proposals,
but
the
council
believes
there
are
issues
with
the
study.
Q
The
most
glaring
flaw
in
the
study
is
its
underlying
assumption
that
the
city-owned
utility
must
continue
to
operate
primarily
as
a
gas
utility
and
mr
shapiro's
testimony
today
did
not
allow
these
fears.
It
was
essentially
an
infomercial
for
continuing
to
use
gas
and
the
statement
from
keith
holmes.
President
of
pgw's
union
quote
there
can
be
no
dispute
that
if
the
city
were
to
somehow
eliminate
natural
gas
as
a
source
of
energy,
all
of
these
good
jobs
would
be
lost
and
could
not
be
replaced
with
a
viable
alternative.
Unquote.
Q
This
appears
that
one
of
the
most
important
players
in
the
potential
transition
and
hopeful
transition
has
already
made
their
decision
to
oppose
anything
but
business
as
usual
and
as
susan
phillips
stated
in
the
headline
of
her,
article
is
pgw
on
board
and
at
this
point
I'd
it's
worth
noting.
Pgw
has
advocated
for
a
statewide
law
that
would
severely
limit
philadelphia's
ability
to
reduce
its
carbon
use
from
gas
use
and
possibly
make
it
unlawful
unlawful
to
do
any
of
the
proposed
alternatives
outlined
in
this
study.
Q
Mr
shapiro
did
not
admit
to
to
being
to
lobbying
for
it.
But
council
member
gim
asked
some
very
good
questions
and,
contrary
to
mr
shapiro's
testimony,
they
did
convey
their
support
of
the
preemption
bill
through
the
energy
association
of
pennsylvania's.
Testimony
at
the
state's
hearing
and
more
than
a
dozen
emails
were
exchanged
between
pgw
executives
in
the
bill's
sponsor's
office.
Q
Senator
yall
in
defending
the
sun
shining
of
communication,
pgw
executive,
said
quote
my
communications
with
pgw's
lawyer
reflect
strategy
used
to
develop
or
achieve
successful
adoption
of
senate
bill
275
in
that
they
analyze
particular
language
in
the
bill
and
similar
laws.
That
sounds
a
lot
like
advocating
for
the
for
that
bill,
not
just
providing
technical
support
or
technical
information.
Q
Mr
shapiro
mentioned
all
the
emails
and
said
it's
inappropriate
to
point
to
a
few
statements
in
them,
but
they're
pretty
damning
and
there
were
other
forms
of
communication
very
likely
that
weren't
discovered
through
freedom
of
information
right
to
know,
requests
clean.
Our
council
has
called
for
city
council
to
investigate
this
action
and
what
laws
may
have
been
violated,
and
we
would
ask
that
you
demand
that
pgw
cut
ties
with
the
outside
lobbying
organizations
like
aga,
spend
that
money
on
philadelphia,
infrastructure
and
philadelphians
wanted
to
address
another
issue
that
was
brought
up.
Q
Yes,
we
use
gas
in
our
electricity
supply,
but
that's
not
a
reason
to
continue
using
gas
in
our
city.
There
is
a
big
difference,
so
please
don't
fall
for
this
false
argument.
In
support
of
continuing
to
use
gas
in
philadelphia,
the
grid
is
cleaning
up
and
will
it
will
be
predominantly
renewable
in
the
coming
decades?
But,
more
importantly,
as
I'll
address
in
the
comments,
local
gas
usage
is
dangerous
to
our
health
and
safety
and
is
more
expensive
in
the
long
run.
Q
There
is
no
justification
for
the
assumption
that
continuing
business
as
normal
is
the
best
path
forward
and
starting
with
that
premise,
substantially
limits
future
options
for
the
city
and
the
city-owned
utility.
Unfortunately,
this
resulted
in
a
weak
and
unambitious
study.
The
council
believes
these
hearings
should
result
in
mandating
that
oos
office
of
sustainability
quickly
commissioned
a
more
rigorous
study
that
would
move
the
city-owned
utility
away
from
being
mainly
a
gas
utility.
Q
However,
there
is
enough
in
the
study
for
city
council
to
require
pgw
to
quickly
begin
diversifying
its
operations
in
support
of
our
reviews.
We
offer
the
following
points:
transition
away
from
fossil
gas
and
as
necessary
to
meet
carbon
reduction
goals
and
maintain
the
health
of
philadelphia
citizens.
Q
You've
heard
from
a
few
presenters
today
about
indoor
air
quality
and
its
effects
on
citizens,
and
also
the
methane
leaks
in
philadelphia
and
explosions,
diversify
pgw's
business
and
that's
a
more
prudent
strategy
to
manage
the
financial
risk
that
philadelphia
residents
will
face
should
pgw
continue
to
exclusively
operate
as
a
gas
company.
There
are
significant
market
and
regulatory
risk
now
facing
the
u.s
gas
industry.
Gas
utilities
across
the
united
states
are
examining
alternative
future
businesses
models,
as
you've
heard
from
previous
speakers
today.
Q
The
best
path
for
pgw
to
manage
the
risk
facing
the
gas
industry
is
to
substantially
diversify
its
operations.
In
addition,
decarbonization
of
the
existing
fossil
gas
system
will
be
a
transition
of
enormous
complexity
and
scale.
Pgw
will
better
manage
the
transition
if
it
acts
promptly
and
deliberately.
Q
This
will
avoid
the
need
for
sudden
and
costly
changes
that
a
delay
would
bring.
The
study
overlooks
several
important
aspects
of
pgw
gas
operations
and
the
gas
transition
such
that
the
potential
for
alternative
business
models
to
meet
philadelphia's
heating
needs
may
in
fact
be
greater.
In
particular,
the
study
does
not
adequately
incorporate
the
cost
of
gas
storage.
The
ace
asymmetric
risk
to
philadelphians
from
dependence
on
renewable
natural
gas
and
the
trend
of
declining
costs
for
heat
pumps.
Q
The
committee
should
build
on
the
study's
recommendations
and
go
further
to
require
specific
and
concrete
requirements
for
pgw
to
execute.
The
recommendations
contained
in
the
study
study
is
an
important
first
step
in
transitioning
philadelphia's
fossil
gas
heating
system
to
a
decarbonized
future.
It's
only
the
first
step
the
council
submits
for
your
consideration.
Q
The
following
pgw
should
develop
a
weatherization
finance
and
service
business.
The
committee
should
build
on
the
study
recommendations
and
go
further
to
require
pgw
submit
a
weatherization
business
plan
within
six
months.
Pgw
should
immediately
undertake
a
pilot
project
for
network
geothermal
districts.
Q
Call
on
oss
to
commission
a
geothermal
feasibility
study.
Ask
pgw
to
develop
a
site
selection
process
for
the
district,
ask
pgw
to
complete
a
cost
estimate
to
transition.
An
existing
neighborhood
ask
oss
to
complete
a
cost
estimate
to
construct
housing,
utilizing
the
geo
district,
and
I
I
would
mention
here
that
susan
phillips
again
had
another
article
yesterday
on
geothermal
and
it's
an
important
read
if
you
haven't
seen
it,
which
I
assume
you
have,
should
also
require
pgw,
to
develop
organizational
capacity
around
a
tactical
thermal
transition
to
understand
the
key.
Q
Reliability
and
revenue
interactions
between
gas
and
electric
systems
on
a
block
by
block
level
require
office
of
sustainability.
To
convene
a
regulatory
reform
task
that
would
spec,
specifically
analyze
the
obstacles
to
new
business
models
and
systematically
identify
possible
solutions,
make
approval
of
the
pgw
operating
and
capital
budgets
conditional
on
implementation
of
these
recommendations.
Q
A
H
Thank
you,
christian
green.
My
name
is
adam
nagle
and
I
am
the
philadelphia
campaign
manager
for
penn
future.
I
would
also
like
to
thank
you,
chairperson,
green
and
chairperson
johnson,
for
taking
the
time
to
call
this
committee
hearing,
and
I
would
like
to
thank
the
other
committee
members
as
well.
Penn
future
is
a
statewide
environmental
advocacy
profit.
We
are
leading
the
transition
to
a
clean
energy
economy
in
pennsylvania
and
beyond.
We
are
protecting
our
air,
water
and
land
and
empowering
citizens
to
build
sustainable
communities
for
future
generations.
H
We
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
discuss
the
sustainability
and
diversification
of
the
philadelphia
gas
works.
We
believe
that
this
hearing
has
already
provided
and
will
continue
to
provide
all
of
us
with
important
information
on
the
diversification
study,
the
recommendations
contained
in
that
document
and
the
urgent
transition
pgw
away
from
its
reliance
on
fracked
gas.
H
H
In
fact,
we
believe
that
a
straight
line
can
be
drawn
from
pgw's
previous
testimony
to
much
of
the
findings
and
recommendations
in
the
diversification
study
we
are
hearing
about
today.
Pgw's
previous
testimony
focused
on
the
use
of
renewable
natural
gas
or
rng
or
decarbonized
gas
to
reduce
its
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
H
Not
surprisingly,
the
study's
third
recommendation
calls
for
a
low
carbonized
gas
program
where
pgw
partners
with
other
city
departments
to
convert
waste
into
biomethane,
while
replacing
fat
gas
with
biogas
seems
like
an
obvious
solution.
It
doesn't
always
work.
Biogas
has
a
much
lower
methane
content
and
can
contain
much
more
co2
along
with
many
other
chemicals.
It
isn't
the
drop-in
replacement
we
would
like.
H
That
is
where
rng
comes
in,
because
it
is
biogas
that
has
been
refined
to
a
better
substitute
for
frack
gas,
although
it
would
seem
safe
to
conclude
that
burning,
a
biofuel
is
better
than
burning
a
fossil
fuel
trading.
Frat
gas
for
a
lower
emitting
version
is
not
the
ultimate
goal.
The
city's
diligent
climate
research
makes
clear
that
we
must
transition
pgw
to
a
sustainable
energy
that
achieves
net
zero
carbon
as
rapidly
as
possible.
H
Incorporating
hydrogen
into
pdw's
operations
presents
many
of
the
same
challenges
as
other
forms
of
rng,
while
it's
technically
possible
to
use
hydrogen
instead
of
gas
for
heating,
cooking
and
other
applications.
It's
simpler
and
cheaper
to
electrify,
because
hydrogen
is
a
very
tiny
and
light
molecule.
It
leaks
at
any
opportunity.
H
Large
scale
use
of
hydrogen
would
require
we
either
retrofit
or
build
out
entirely
new
distribution
networks,
both
under
our
city
streets
and
in
many
thousands
of
existing
homes
that
would
be
prohibitively
expensive.
Ultimately,
the
study.
Second,
second
recommendation
surrounding
the
use
of
geothermal
energy
carries
the
most
promise,
as
we
have
heard
detailed
already
today.
Penn
future
strongly
supports
the
pursuit
of
network
geothermal
district
systems
to
fully
transition
pgw
from
fracked
gas.
H
Did
pgw
provide
a
statement
on
the
study
upon
its
release.
It
did
not
did
pgw
provide
any
substantive
comments
on
the
study
or
the
recommendations
contained
therein
prior
to
this
hearing.
It
did
not
did
pgw
work
with
oil
and
gas
industry.
Insiders
seeking
to
further
undermine
the
city's
ability
to
identify
local
solutions
for
local
challenges
through
preemption
legislation,
currently
working
its
way
through
the
general
assembly
in
harrisburg.
H
It
did
so
unapologetically
going
so
far
as
to
say
that
natural
gas
will
continue
to
be
an
essential
tool
towards
carbon
reduction.
The
consequences
are
numerous
from
the
continued
denial
deflection
and
delay
embodied
in
pgw
statements
and
actions,
including
mr
shapiro's.
Testimony
today,
rate
payers,
who
are
already
energy
burdened,
will
see
their
bills
increase,
as
others
seek
out
alternative
energy
sources,
independent
of
the
holistic
transition.
H
The
escalating
impact
of
climate
change
brought
in
our
brought
on
by
our
reliance
on
fossil
fuels
will
go,
will
grow
worse,
risking
further
harm
to
the
health
and
safety
of
our
most
vulnerable
communities.
From
warmer
and
wetter
weather,
decisive
action
is
required
to
ensure
minimal
disruption
for
pgw's
workforce
and
its
ratepayers
penn
future
requests
the
following
to
be
considered
to
undertake
this
work.
Set
aside,
the
rng
yeah
set
aside
the
rng
pilot
program
to
due
to
the
reasons
set
out
above
immediate,
authorized,
work
on
the
geothermal
feasibility
study.
A
H
I'll
start
over
from
the
last
section,
penn
future
requests
the
following
be
considered
to
undertake
this
work.
Set
aside,
the
rng
pilot
program,
due
to
the
reason
set
out
above
immediately
authorized
work
on
the
geothermal
feasibility
study
and
we
would
hope,
incorporating
pilot
program
and
require
pgw
to
place
far
greater
emphasis
on
building
an
organization
that
prioritizes
sustainability
to
better
meet
the
needs
of
all
philadelphians.
H
A
R
Hi
everyone,
my
name,
is
flora,
cardone
and
I'm
the
field
director
with
penn
environment,
the
statewide,
citizen-based
environmental
advocacy
non-profit.
Thank
you
all
for
the
opportunity
to
testify
today
on
behalf
of
thousands
of
our
members
across
the
state
and
here
in
philly,
who
are
clamoring
for
real
action
to
tackle
the
climate
crisis.
R
Ending
our
reliance
on
dirty
dangerous
fossil
fuels
will
help
lower
global
warming
emissions
clean
up
our
air
and
protect
our
health,
so
pet
environment
applauds
pgw
for
including
a
path
forward.
Promoting
geothermal
energy
in
philadelphia's
energy
mix.
Studying
the
opportunities
for
geothermal
is
definitely
a
positive
first
step,
we're
also
in
support
of
a
plan
centered
around
full
electrification,
with
pgw
transitioning,
completely
off
of
gas
into
100
clean
energy,
and
certainly
we
appreciate
the
emphasis
on
weatherization
and
energy
efficiency,
which
are
critical
pieces
of
all
of
these
plans.
R
Don't
improve
air
quality
and
are
relatively
scarce
and
expensive.
I
speak
in
much
greater
detail
about
the
problems
with
both
of
these
energy
sources
and
the
written
testimony
I've
provided,
but
the
bottom
line
is
that
electrification
powered
by
clean
energy
would
be
cleaner,
more
sustainable,
more
cost
effective
and
results
in
lower
emissions
than
any
path
than
any
pathway
that
relies
on
expanding
this
so-called
decarbonized
gas.
R
Another
big
question,
though,
that
I
have
today
is
how
serious
is
pgw
about
diversification
in
the
first
place.
I
posed
this
question
because,
as
council
person
kim
and
logan
both
stated,
there
has
been
a
lot
of
news
coverage
about
pgw's
involvement
in
drafting
this
legislation
that
would
explicitly
strip
philadelphia,
philadelphia's
authority
to
implement
these
or
other
policies
that
would
promote
diversification
of
the
city's
energy
mix.
This
legislation
senate
bill
275
and
its
companion
in
the
house
hb
1947
go
much
further
than
just
hindering
building
electrification
at
the
local
level.
R
It
would
also
have
a
chilling
effect
on
municipalities,
ability
to
promote
solar,
weatherization
energy
efficiency
or
any
policies
that
would
have
the
effect
of
limiting
gas
use.
Pgw
responded
that
they're
neutral
on
the
bill
and
reiterated
that
today
and
while
that
claim
is
questionable
at
best,
given
their
clear
involvement
in
providing
feedback
to
strengthen
it,
we
would
think
that
pgw
should
have
an
obligation
to
aggressively
oppose
this
attack
on
energy
diversification
if
they
truly
plan
to
diversify
and
help
the
city
meet
its
climate
reduction
goals.
R
Ultimately,
we
owe
it
to
our
children,
our
grandchildren
and
the
planet
to
address
climate
change
with
an
urgent
and
focused
priority,
promoting
bills
that
tie
our
hands
and
peddling
gas
resilient
energy
sources
masquerading
as
renewable
energy
will
only
exacerbate
the
problem.
So
I
urge
pgw
and
the
city
to
focus
their
efforts
into
electrification
and
100
percent
clean
renewable
energy
to
ensure
that
future
generations
of
philadelphians
have
a
safe
and
livable
climate
in
the
place
that
we
call
home.
Thank
you.
A
A
Okay,
seeing
none
and
hopefully,
if
you
had
testimony
that
was
written.
I
know
mr
weldy
did
others.
If
you
have
written
testimony,
if
you
could
make
sure
you
get
that
to
my
office,
compile
all
of
this
testimony
for
those
that
can
will
not
be
able
to
attend,
can
read
it
later,
but
thank
you
all
for
your
participation.
I
know
it's
been
some
time,
but
I
think
each
person,
that's
testified
so
far-
has
provided
a
robust
conversation
for
this
topic
for
on
this
afternoon.
So
thank
you,
mr
eye
news.
B
A
M
Hi,
my
name
is
emily
davis
and
I
represent
geodelphia.
We
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
speak.
Network
geothermal
is
one
of
the
options
listed
in
the
diversification
study.
We
suggest
a
full
physical
pilot
rather
than
just
a
study.
A
feasibility
study
could
be
done
at
the
same
time.
This
is
because
geothermal
is
a
proven,
40-year-old
technology.
M
A
M
In
philadelphia
we
need
a
pilot
in
which
multiple
property
owners
are
involved.
Most
individual
homeowners
cannot
afford
to
install
a
closed
loop
system
necessary
for
energy
exchange
and
in
philadelphia.
Many
homeowners
do
not
have
the
land
necessary
to
install
a
system
of
geothermal,
so
geothermal
must
be
a
utility
in
philadelphia,
geothermal
could
provide
heating
and
cooling
and
ptw
could
sell
btus,
as
well
as
maintenance
for
home
systems.
Additionally,
geothermal
can
help
pgw
retain
skilled
jobs
and
provide
pgw
with
a
stable
year-round
revenue
system.
M
Utility
bill
payers
know
that
heating
and
cooling
are
the
most
expensive
of
the
utilities.
They
become
more
expensive
without
geothermal
many
homes
in
philadelphia
do
not
have
cooling
systems,
but
these
are
becoming
a
necessity.
In
our
warming
climate,
a
geothermal
system
provides
efficient
heating
and
cooling,
as
other
speakers
have
mentioned,
energy
efficiency
can
be
part
of
pgw's
business
mix,
but
renewable
natural
gas
is
not
scalable
and
continues
to
pipe
gas
through
leaky
pipelines
emitting
climate
harming
methane
and
unhealthy
indoor.
Air
pollution.
M
A
full
pilot
of
network
geo
geothermal
system
must
be
part
of
the
diversification
project,
with
ptw's
trained
and
experienced
to
process
it
for
themselves,
a
public
building
like
a
school
or
a
recreation
center
as
the
hub
of
the
project
and
a
heat
island
neighborhood
as
the
site.
The
pilot
can
benefit
pgw
as
well
as
philadelphians.
A
B
Thank
you.
My
name
is
jordan
teicher,
I'm
a
resident
of
west
philadelphia
and
a
member
of
philly
dsa,
a
local
chapter
of
the
democratic
socialist
america.
I
want
to
start
by
stating
something
obvious
philadelphia.
Gas
works
is
a
public
utility.
We,
the
people
of
philadelphia
own
it.
That
means
it
should
serve
us,
but
who
is
pgw
serving
today?
B
Is
it
serving
the
people
of
philadelphia
when
its
leaders
are
coordinating
with
the
american
gas
association
to
lock
us
into
fossil
fuels
when
they
are
in
effect,
making
a
mockery
of
the
goals
of
this
diversification
study?
Is
it
serving
us
when
it's
voting
in
lockstep
with
the
american
gas
association
to
vote
down
cleaner
building
codes?
B
Is
it
serving
us
when
it's
failing
to
study
the
stranded
asset
risk
that
accompanies
our
city's
commitment
to
make
reliance
on
nashville
on
natural
gas
obsolete
by
2050,
and
is
it
serving
us
when
it's
being
run
by
a
non-profit
corporation
that
doesn't
host
public
meetings,
does
not
publish
minutes
from
its
meetings
and
releases
very
little
information
about
its
activities?
I
think
we
all
know
the
answer.
B
It's
time
for
pgw
to
start
serving
the
people
of
philadelphia
and
what
the
people
of
philadelphia
want
is
a
pgw
that
acts
like
a
public
utility,
not
a
private
business.
We
want
a
pgw
that
acts
boldly
to
address
the
climate
crisis.
We
want
a
pgw
that
expands
access
to
good
union
jobs,
but
that
is
not
the
vision
for
pgw
reflected
in
this
diversification
study.
This
study
assumes
that
pgw
will
remain
primarily
a
gas
utility.
B
It
calls
for
investing
in
a
renewable
natural
gas
pilot
which
is
unsustainable,
unscalable
and
unsafe.
It
aims
for
a
lower
carbon
future
rather
than
the
zero
carbon
future.
We
need
to
live
safely
in
the
city
and
on
this
planet
and
it
plans
for
still
more
studies
more
time
to
kick
climate
action
down
the
road.
B
So
if
the
city
is
serious
about
the
climate
crisis,
it
will
immediately
remove
pgw
leaders,
including
seth
shapiro,
who
are
working
against
our
climate
goals.
It
will
demand
that
pgw
stop
paying
hundreds
of
thousands
of
dollars
in
member
dues
in
ratepayer
dues
to
gas
industry
trade
groups,
and
it
will
invite
philadelphians
to
participate
in
a
democratic
process
to.
A
B
Hi
good
afternoon,
my
name
is
duncan
gromko,
I'm
a
member
of
philadelphia,
dsa
and
a
resident
of
south
philly
pgw
and
the
city
of
the
government
governs
it
need
to
get
serious
about
climate
solutions
that
put
workers.
First,
we've
heard
from
many
other
speakers.
Rng
is
not
a
serious
scalable
solution
to
pgw's
transition.
B
Public
investment
in
our
city's
future
will
also
create
good
union
union
jobs
for
gas
workers,
electricians
and
many
other
building
trade
unions
in
the
city.
We've
heard
from
experts
today
that
many
of
the
skills
needed
for
geothermal
are
similar
to
those
that
gas
workers
already
have
rather
than
take
action.
There
will
be
another
study
that
our
city
has
to
that.
Our
city
has
to
beg
for
private
money
to
conduct
and
will
take
years
to
complete.
B
B
Speaking
of
accountability,
this
hearing
itself
was
made
inaccessible.
The
announcement
of
the
hearing
went
out
only
a
week
ago,
it's
extremely
hard
for
working
people
to
attend
an
hours-long
hearing
during
the
middle
of
the
day
with
such
short
notice.
This
is
not
acceptable
for
such
an
important
public
process.
B
C
C
C
Our
faith
traditions
teach
us
that
each
human
being
has
infinite
and
equal
value.
So
to
build
a
world
in
which
everyone
is
truly
valued.
We
must
move
as
quickly
as
possible
to
limit
the
scale
of
climate
catastrophe
guarantee
everyone
has
the
energy
they
need
at
an
affordable
price,
make
sure
everyone
has
a
safe,
healthy
home
and
that
everyone
can
obtain
a
safe
living
wage
job
with
union
representation.
C
It
uses
it's
fossil
free,
it
uses
thermal
energy
infrastructure
using
public
property
and
pgw
could
lead
the
way
in
decarbonizing
our
city,
with
long-term
investments
in
the
safest,
most
efficient,
most
resilient
technology
available
pgw
could
ensure
affordability,
protect
union
jobs
and
create
new
jobs
for
the
long
term.
We
were
disappointed
that
the
business,
the
diversification
study,
included,
minimal
analysis
of
this
option
and
it
does
re
recommend
a
feasibility
study
about
geothermal
networks,
but
in
2022.
C
C
So,
finally,
we
say
city
council
should
require
pgw
to
begin
testing,
not
merely
studying
the
option
which
would
enable
pgw
to
play
a
role
in
transforming
our
energy
system
and
to
thrive
for
decades
to
come.
It's
time
to
plan
and
build
network
geothermal
pilot
projects
and
power
hopes
to
work
with
pgw
union
city
council,
the
office
of
sustainability
and
and
also
others
to
achieve
this
critical
goal.
A
Thank
you,
reverend
perch,
for
your
testimony.
One
thing
we
stated
which,
although
it's
really
beyond
the
scope
of
this
conversation,
is
the
significant
amount
of
fossil
fuel
energy.
That's
used
for
our
buildings,
just
to
let
people
know
we
had
passed
legislation
some
time
ago
regarding
cpace
or
the
commercial
program
says
clean
energy
initiative
that
allows
us
to
have
our
commercial
abilities
to
be
more
sustainable.
A
There
is
legislation
moving
through
the
general
assembly
that
will
allow
c-pace
to
apply
to
residential
or
multi-family
properties
and
we're
looking
to
introduce
legislation
to
enable
that
to
occur
here
in
the
city
of
philadelphia.
So
thank
you
for
bringing
up
that
point
because
I
think
sometimes
it's
lost,
that
our
buildings
are
actually
responsible
for
the
core
portion
of
the
sustainable
sustainability
and
fossil
fuel
issues
that
we
have
and
with
that
we'll
have
reverend
drew
and
then
take
any
questions
from
members
of
city
council
and
then
we'll
go
into
our
next
panel.
S
Great
thanks
very
much
mr
green
I'll
state,
my
name,
my
name
is
reverend.
Alan
drew
I'm
an
ordained
pastor
in
the
christian
reform
church
and
the
east
coast,
regional
organizer
for
the
climate,
witness
project
and
an
18-year
resident
of
northwest
philadelphia,
I'm
also
the
organizer
for
the
hunting
park,
community,
solar
initiative
or
hbcsi,
and
I'm
a
20-year
partner
and
10-year
member
of
spring
truth
fellowship
church
in
hunting
park.
So
that's
a
neighbor!
That's
a
neighborhood!
That's
very
close
to
me
in
my
work
with
hp,
csi
and
our
partners.
S
We're
constantly
witnessing
the
challenges
of
crumbling
homes
and
high
energy
burdens
for
our
low
to
moderate
income
neighbors
because
they're
low
income,
their
energy
costs,
take
up
a
very
substantial
percentage
of
their
total
revenue,
which
we
all
know
is
their
energy
burden.
Furthermore,
because
they
don't
have
extra
cash,
they
can't
afford
the
necessary
repairs
to
their
homes,
which
in
turn
makes
them
less
energy
efficient,
leaking
hot
air
in
the
winter
and
cool
air
in
the
summer
and
costing
them
more
money
on
energy,
which
makes
things
even
harder
for
them.
S
I
think
we
can
agree
on
that,
and
yet
so
many
people
in
in
my
neighborhood
and
others
like
it,
are
living
by
a
thread
trying
to
keep
from
having
these
services
shut
off
and
some
are
already
sinking
now.
What
will
happen
to
them
if
pgw
continues,
as
was
so
clearly
presented
by
mr
shapiro,
to
resist
our
society's
urgent
calls
and
our
city's
commitments
to
have
it
rapidly
and
strategically
transition
away
from
fossil
fuels
and
into
clean
energy?
What
will
happen
inevitably
is
what
we
call
the
death
spiral
and
the
death
spiral
will
devastate.
S
My
low-income
neighbors
in
hunting
park.
It'll
devastate
them.
So
what
is
the
death
spiral?
Well,
the
social
and
political
pressures
to
decarbonize
have
grown
massively
just
over
the
last
few
years
and
will
only
increase
as
storms,
floods,
droughts
and
refugee
crises
continue
to
grow
in
our
world,
so
there
is
most
certainly
no
future
for
pgw
as
a
natural
gas
heating
company,
it's
not
a
future
for
them.
S
The
catastrophic
implosion
is
the
death
spiral,
so
right
now
more
and
more
people
who
can
afford
to
do
it
are
electrifying
their
heating,
I'm
one
of
them.
I
switched
to
an
air
source
heat
pump
system
this
past
summer
and
haven't
turned
on
my
gas
to
heat
all
winter.
My
next
will
be
my
stove
and
my
hot
water
heater,
and
then
I
will
separate
completely
from
pgw.
It's
cheaper,
it's
non-toxic
and
it
fights
climate
change
and
this
movement
that
I'm
a
part
of
is
growing
and
it
will
continue
to
grow.
S
But
as
this
happens,
pgw
will
lose
more
and
more
revenue
which
will
lead
it
to
raise
rates
on
the
people
who
are
still
paying.
Those
people
will
be
the
ones
who
can't
afford
to
electrify
people
like
my
neighbors
in
hunting
park.
They
will
then
go
into
default.
Maybe
they'll
get
some
help
for
a
time
with
taxpayer
money,
but
eventually
they'll
be
shut
off.
S
The
other
option-
I'm
almost
done
here,
is
to
transition
urgently
and
systemically
towards
a
network
geothermal
system.
Plenty
of
other
testifiers
have
explained
why
this
is
the
best
way
forward.
So
I
won't
spend
any
time
on
that.
But
what
is
absolutely
not
a
way
forward
for
pgw
its
workers,
the
poor
or
our
city
as
a
whole
is
continued
use
of
natural
gas.
That
season
is
over.
We
need
to
acknowledge
it.
Pgw
can
adapt
and
we
can
thrive
together
or
pgw.
S
So
my
question
for
city
council
today
is:
will
you
rise
to
the
occasion
in
this
very
urgent
moment
to
defend
the
poor
and
oppressed,
protect
the
workers
and
secure
our
city's
future
by
forcing
pgw
to
do
what
it
needs
to
do,
because
it
is
our
utility?
It
belongs
to
us
and
you
oversee
it
as
city
council
as
our
representatives.
S
A
A
They
educate
people
in
the
city
of
philadelphia
regarding
this
concern,
because
if
you
look
at
the
data
from
everyone,
pgw
customers
are
using
less
and
less
gas,
and
when
I
use
that
analogy
regarding
my
sister
or
electric
vehicle,
the
concern
I
have
is
that
more
and
more
people
that
have
the
resources
will
get
off
of
pgw
because
they
have
the
ability
to
do
so.
And
although
I've
talked
about
this
for
some
time,
I
saw
the
first
commercialization
of
that
during
the
christmas
holiday
with
a
company
that
was
advertising
on
a
station.
A
How
you
can
use
solar
and
use
it
as
a
backup
generator,
as
well
as
provide
energy
for
your
home,
and
so
that
issue
is
going
to
become
more
and
more
prevalent
as
more
and
more
companies
start
to
commercialize
the
ability
to
provide
solar
energy
on
homes
and
it's
for
the
very
customers
and
the
citizens
of
the
city
of
philadelphia.
Why?
We
need
to
look
at
these
conversations
and
that's?
A
Why
we'll
have
a
follow-up
hearing
on
this
issue
to
give
other
people
opportunity
to
testify,
but
also
delve
in
a
little
bit
more
detailed
way
regarding
the
geothermal
pilot
and
weatherization
and
bring
some
of
the
other
city
departments
in
to
talk
about
that
conversation
as
well?
So
thank
you
for
articulating
the
real
urgency
of
this
conversation
and
we
need
to
educate
many
more
philadelphians
about
this
concern.
So
thank
you
for
your
testimony
with
that
we're
going
to
have
mr
inuzi
read
the
names
for
the
next
witnesses
and
next
panel.
M
M
This
exclusion
may
explain
why
the
executive
summary
begins
by
using
the
adjective
quote:
ambitious
when
mentioning
our
nation's
return
to
the
paris
agreement
and
philadelphia's
2050
climate
goals,
ipcc
reports
published
after
the
paris
agreement
revealed
the
agreement
to
be
not
ambitious
enough.
If
we
don't
cut
greenhouse
gas
emissions
in
half
by
2030,
climate
change
will
be
irreversible.
M
M
The
executive
summit
summary
also
tosses
the
adjectives,
complicated
and
complex
up
into
the
air.
Before
approaching
any
substance.
These
words
sound
a
warning
bell
and
set
the
tone
of
inertia.
Some
outsiders
call
that
pa
conservatism
the
complicated
nature
of
philadelphia
owning
pgw
can
be
summed
up
by
saying
that
philly
residents
have
been
completely
disenfranchised
from
its
governance
that
needs
to
change.
M
M
Someone
already
mentioned
footnote
19.
two
electrification
of
buildings
will
improve
air
quality.
Yes,
but
then
the
study
imagines
a
financial
disaster,
resulting
in
many
stranded
quote:
stranded
pgw
assets,
potentially
resulting
in
bill
increases
for
customers
that
do
not
electrify
end
quote
page
41
in
pgw's
needed
revenue.
Section
elaborates
quote
with
declining
utilization,
comes
increasing
average
costs
unquote.
M
Yes,
great
idea
and
here's
why
gas
backup
is
not
heated
needed
for
geothermal
it
pumps,
water
up
from
the
ground
at
a
constant
55
degrees,
no
matter
what
the
outdoor
weather
is
the
best
pilot
project
on
page
six
for
the
long
term
is
network.
Geothermal
weatherization
is
needed,
but
you
rely
on
grants,
not
loans
to
low
income,
people
who
may
go
into
debt.
M
In
conclusion,
philadelphia
needs
to
change
pgw's
name
and
make
it
a
renewable
energy
provider
with
transparent
and
democratic
governance
that
means
shut
down
pfmc
and
fire.
Any
pgw
employees
who
have
worked
counter
to
the
city's
climate
and
general
welfare
fnc
is
a
board
of
seven
mayoral
appointees
that
conducts
closed
door
meetings
and
gets
the
rubber
stamp
of
the
philadelphia
gas
commission,
which
is
the
democratic
face
of
pgw.
M
N
N
N
The
study
assumed
in
every
scenario
that
pgw
must
continue
to
maintain
its
fossil
fuel
infrastructure.
Alongside
diversification
strategies.
We
must
build
a
fossil
free,
just
world
a
lower
carbon
future.
Just
isn't
isn't
good
enough
for
that
world.
The
e3
study
needed
to
assess
a
better
future
which
all
philadelphians
deserve,
one
in
which
pgw
acts
on
a
plan
to
shed
those
fossil
fuel
assets.
Another
key
assumption
of
the
study
is
that
ratepayers
continue
to
bear
all
costs
for
diversification.
N
There's
no
need
to
put
the
burden
of
diversification
on
low-income
philadelphians
when
we
can
save
money
by
decommissioning
fossil
fuel
infrastructure
and
fund
new
infrastructure
that
we
need
by
taxing
the
rich.
We
must
unlock
a
pgw
that
moves
boldly
towards
a
future
where
workers
are
guaranteed
good
union
jobs
where
ratepayers
are
guaranteed,
affordable
heat
in
the
winter
and
where
all
of
us
can
breathe
easy.
N
Knowing
that
philadelphia
led
the
way
to
climate
justice,
potential
solutions
certainly
need
more
study
and,
as
mentioned
a
lot
of
times
today,
and
the
best
way
to
study
something
is
by
by
seeing
it
operate
in
the
real
world
in
a
relevant
context.
As
such,
I
implore
the
city
to
develop
a
pilot
for
a
network
geothermal
project.
Now
the
potential
of
this
technology
is
massive
and,
as
the
study
says,
we
need
to
know
more
about
it.
N
The
city
must
also
figure
out
which
regulations
need
to
change
and
which
funding
streams
to
access
such
that
the
full
cost
of
transitioning
is
not
borne
solely
by
ratepayers.
The
city
should
also
take
active
steps
to
end
payments
from
pgw
to
fossil
fuel
associations,
to
free
up
more
money
for
pilot
projects.
N
While
we
need
studies
to
create
plans,
time
is
running
out
to
address
the
climate
crisis,
so
the
city
must
commit
to
action
alongside
any
additional
needed
studies
to
build
a
new
future
for
pgw,
as
city
council
continues
to
assess
the
e3
study
and
consider
how
to
move
forward,
remember
our
shared
future
and
that
your
decisions
affect
all
of
us,
pgw
workers,
customers
and
philadelphians
for
generations
to
come.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
time.
A
B
A
B
Air
council
and
reclaim
I'm
here
to
second
what
others
have
said
and
farther
push
for
the
city
to
move
pgw
out
of
the
gas
business
entirely.
This
must
be
done
with
either
a
move
to
geothermal
networks
or
a
push
for
full
electrification.
There
are
simply
no
other
alternatives
that
are
in
keeping
with
philadelphia's
clinicals
renewable
natural
gas
has
been
proven
a
myth,
time
and
time
again.
B
Studies
on
the
subject
from
california
around
other
transitions
away
from
from
traditional
fossil
gas,
have
found
that,
even
apart
from
the
cost
of
quote-unquote
renewable
gas,
there
does
not
exist
enough
of
it
to
make
even
the
smallest
dent
in
the
utilities.
Gas
delivery
to
fully
transition
between
one
and
five
percent
of
fossil
gas
could
be
replaced
at
most.
In
that
study,
this
is
not
scalable
decarbonized
gas,
as
some
have
pointed
out
earlier,
the
term
used
in
the
diversification
study
quite
simply
does
not
exist.
It
was
mentioned
earlier
that
the
e3
study
admits
this.
B
B
So-Called
decarbonized
gas
will
not
help
the
city
decarbonize
at
all,
and
I
hope
that
the
city
will
not
sink
millions
of
ratepayer
and
taxpayer
dollars
into
testing
and
trying
a
technology
that
we
already
know
will
not
achieve
our
goals.
A
pgw
representative
shared
a
lot
of
statistics
about
the
grid
earlier
and
no
pens.
Electricity
is
not
yet
completely
carbon
free,
but
according
to
the
new
york
times
in
2020,
it's
already
nearly
40
percent
carbon
free
between
renewables
and
nuclear.
B
Frankly,
when
it's
becoming
more
and
more
common
around
the
country
for
cities
to
ban
new
fossil
gas
hookups
entirely,
it's
embarrassing
that
a
philly
run
organization
continues
to
oppose
decarbonization
efforts
at
the
state
and
push
residents,
businesses
and
even
independence
park
to
add
new
gas
hookups.
That's
not
in
keeping
with
philadelphia's
climate
goals.
It's
not
responsible
for
the
city
financially
to
continue
in
a
fossil
gas
business
that
can't
be
made
viable
and
will
only
get
less.
B
So
I
urge
the
council
and
pgw
to
pursue
the
philly
geothermal
works
plan
laid
out
in
the
diversification
study,
as
it
holds
the
highest
promise
to
deliver
a
legitimately
carbon-free
source
of
heat
to
philadelphians
at
acceptable
rates
and
with
the
most
reasonable
transition
for
pgw's
current
workforce.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
A
A
D
Sure,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
testify.
My
name
is
steve,
greenspan,
I'm
a
resident
of
philadelphia
and
a
grandfather.
I
also
volunteer
at
power
my
career
as
a
scientist
and
vice
president.
At
a
fortune,
500
software
company
was
focused
on
researching
emerging
technologies
and
social
trends
and
helping
them
embrace
change.
I
care
deeply
about
philadelphia
this
planet
and
climate
justice.
D
Four
years
ago,
a
friend
purchased
the
condominium
in
philadelphia.
A
major
selling
point
was
that
the
building
used
only
electricity
for
space,
heating,
water,
heating
and
cooking
the
units
were
quickly
sold
all
electric
no
gas.
This
anecdote
illustrates
a
vital
truth,
not
fully
captured
in
the
pgw
diversification
study.
Electrification
has
already
begun.
Without
pgw,
there
will
be
more
and
more
homes
and
buildings
without
gas,
heating
pgw
can
either
embrace
change
or
ignore
it
if
they
ignore
it.
If
they
continue
with
business
as
usual,
customers
will
pay
more
to
maintain
infrastructure
that
fewer
and
fewer
use.
D
This
will
be
hardest
on
low
income
customers
who
can't
afford
to
switch
and,
as
revenue
dwindles,
good
paying
union
jobs
will
be
lost.
This
is
the
death
spiral
that's
been
mentioned
before,
or
pgw
can
embrace
change
and
diversify
in
ways
that
sustain
union
jobs,
support
climate
goals
and
lower
customer
bills
through
efficient,
innovative
infrastructure
and
business
models
that
don't
place
the
burden
of
transformation
on
those
least
able
to
afford
it
piloting
the
falsely
named
decarbonized
gas
would
waste
our
money.
D
It
would
not
be
environmentally
sustainable,
not
the
least
cost
option
for
consumers
and
not
provide
new
knowledge.
On
the
other
hand,
network
geothermal
systems
should
be
piloted
with
community
and
third
party
engagement,
understanding,
the
the
feasibility
of
network,
geothermal
systems
for
philadelphia
and
the
required
job
skills
and
exploring
heat
as
a
service.
Business
models
would
be
valuable
to
city
and
npgw
planners.
D
This
is
the
option
that
can
preserve
jobs
and
support
climate
justice.
The
legal
and
other
obstacles
can
be
overcome,
however.
Transforming
a
company
like
pgw
requires
executives
who
are
fully
committed
to
the
vision
who
can
provide
clarity
and
transparency
and
who
can
lead
with
compassion
for
workers
and
low-income
customers
in
the
past
year,
pgw
executives
have
not
demonstrated
the
values
and
leadership
that
are
needed.
D
Every
industry
goes
through
transformations,
kerosene
lamps
were
replaced
by
electric
bulbs
and
coal
furnaces
were
replaced
with
gas
electrification
with
heat
pumps
is
inevitable,
with
or
without
pgw
whether
pgw
will
be
a
leader
in
this
transformation
or
a
niche
player
with
diminishing
revenues
is
up
to
the
city.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
A
Thank
you
for
your
testimony,
mr
greenspan.
We
had
stated
there
was
a
few
other
people
that
wanted
to
testify.
I
and
I
called
their
names
earlier.
They
were
on
our
list
that
was
gail
martian
future
salvage.
If
they
are
here,
please
indicate
as
such,
but
there
are
others
that
have
signed
up
to
testify
and
I'll
call
their
names
at
this
time.
A
E
A
Okay,
well,
we'll
give
you
a
moment
also.
I
know
russell
hicks
I
signed
up,
but
I
don't
see
him
as
still
part
of
okay.
Miss
chan
tell
me
he's
not
here
also
morgan
cerrero,
who
I
believe
is
also
still
here,
I
believe,
miss
hastings.
That
was
your
speaking,
so
I'm
gonna,
okay,
I
see
you're
trying
to
get
yourself
together.
D
Sure,
thanks
very
much
for
the
opportunity
to
testify.
My
name
is
mitch
channon.
I
have
leadership
roles
in
the
climate,
justice
and
jobs
team
at
power,
as
well
as
the
climate,
justice
caucus
and
reclaim
philadelphia,
but
I'm
going
to
be
speaking
for
myself,
but
did
they
just
want
to
state
those
affiliations?
D
D
D
D
D
D
One
other
thing
I
wanted
to
say
along
those
lines
just
to
make
sure
to
like
double
correct.
The
record
mr
shapiro
was
earlier
repeatedly
saying
we
have
to
understand
what
he
called
the
facts
and
and
and
saying
that
electrification
would
increase
greenhouse
gas
emissions
rather
than
decreasing
them.
That
is
not
the
finding
of
the
business
study.
There's
a
chart
on
page
29
that
clearly
lays
out
their
analysis,
which
shows
that
electrification
with
our
grid,
as
it
is
right
now,
would
reduce
greenhouse
gas
emissions,
and
so
his
continued
repeating
of
fossil
fuel
industry.
D
Talking
points
is
extremely
concerning
to
me
and
that's
one
other
reason
why
I
just
think
it's
absolutely
critical
that
city
council
lead
the
way
in
holding
them
accountable
and
ensuring
that
pgw
does
what
is
needed
to
transform
themselves
into
a
provider
of
affordable
heating
and
cooling
services
without
any
greenhouse
gas
emissions
and
in
a
way
that
protects
and
creates
good
union
jobs
so
I'll
leave
it
there.
Thank
you
very
much.
E
E
Sadly,
keeping
pgw
public,
in
name
only
under
the
management
control
of
private
management
that
opposes
the
changes
that
need
to
be
made,
isn't
working
keeping
things
the
same
may
also
be
a
dead
end
for
the
union
jobs
in
the
future.
Before
I
go
into
that,
I
basically
I
I
also
support
implementing
geothermal
projects,
which
I
think
should
be
publicly
funded,
not
based
on
loans,
and
I
suggest
that
geothermal
projects
be
initiated
quickly
for
public
schools
and
in
all
city
approved
or
funded
low-income
or
public
housing
developments.
O
E
Okay,
basically
pfmc
is
a
public
entity.
They
claim
that
they're
not
subject
to
oversight
they're,
not
subject
to
the
sunshine
act,
because
they're
private,
but
they're
running
a
public
utility.
We
either
need
to
get
rid
of
that
management
document
or
revise
it
so
that
it
reflects
current
priorities,
including
public
tran
transparency,
public
information
and
environmental
needs.
E
E
City
council
can
also
take
action
right
now
or
very
to
while
they're
working
on
a
new
management
agreement
to
reduce
current
pollution
and
reduce
future
stranded
assets
by
requiring
pgw
now
to
stop
spending
money
on
expanding
natural
gas
infrastructure.
We
have
plenty
of
current
ones
to
fix
and
to
stop
soliciting
entities
to
convert
from
either
steam
or
even
electric
to
natural
gas
and
otherwise
working
to
increase
the
use
of
natural
gas
in
the
city.
E
Please
increase
geothermal
and
other
clean
renewable
energy
in
the
city
and
stop
the
city
from
binging
on
natural
gas.
Now,
if
pgw
cannot,
legally
or
otherwise
transition
to
generation
and
supply
of
renewable
energy,
then
perhaps
the
city
should
consider
starting
a
different
totally
non-carbon
renewable
energy
utility,
I'd
like
to
keep
energy
in
the
public
sector,
but
it
needs
to
be
renewable.
Thank
you.
A
T
Yep,
my
name
is
morgan
cerro
and
I'm
speaking
to
you
as
research
assistant
and
the
field
work
lead
for
the
energy
rights
project,
and
that
is
a
federally
funded
ethnographic
project.
That's
based
out
of
drexel
university,
and
it's
tasked
with
studying
energy
vulnerability
in
the
mid-atlantic
region.
T
As
pgw
explores
options
two
to
carbonize.
It
is
imperative
that
philadelphians
with
the
highest
energy
burdens,
are
prioritized
to
ensure
that
they
maintain
reliable
access
to
affordable
energy
out
of
our
respondents.
62.5
percent
reported
that
they
are
struggling
with
paying
their
gas
bill
currently
and,
although
so
many
philadelphians
are
struggling.
More
than
half
of
our
respondents
have
never
applied
for
energy
assistance,
for
a
myriad
of
reasons,
mainly
not
being
eligible
for
available
assistance
programs
and
not
knowing
about
assistance
programs
that
exist.
T
We
asked,
if
she's
aware
of
energy
assistance
programs
that
her
utility
company
provides,
and
the
following
response
is
one
example
of
many
that
our
team
has
had
regarding
crp
quote
yes,
but
some
of
the
programs
we
can't
go
on
because
my
husband
is
the
only
he
has
the
only
income
in
the
household
and
that
kind
of
sucks
and
we're
not
documented
yet
so
that
kind
of
sucks
too.
So,
basically,
everything
has
to
come
out
of
pocket.
T
I
think
only
one
program
that
we
are
on
is
the
cap
program
and
that's
with
the
electricity
and
we're
trying
to
get
on
the
crp
program,
but
they
say
he
makes
too
much
money,
but
it's
only
one
of
him.
I
mean
it's
only
him
in
the
household
working.
So
how
does
he
make
too
much
money?
If
I
don't
know
it's
just
confusing
end
quote.
T
I
was
also
concerned
to
see
that
the
diversification
study
proposed
on
bill
financing
for
low
in
income
energy
upgrades
as
an
alternative
business
model
and
though
low
income,
households
in
philadelphia
are
desperately
in
need
of
energy
upgrades.
As
many
have
mentioned,
customers
are
already
struggling
with
their
monthly
gas
bills
and
other
expenses
and
should
not
have
their
options
reduced
to
a
massively
higher
utility
debt
in
order
to
address
their
home's
energy
deficiencies.
T
Our
team
supports
another
option
that
was
outlined
in
the
study,
which
is
close
to
pgw's
current
business
model,
where
pgw
receives
funding
from
state
and
federal
sources
to
act
as
a
weatherization
service
provider
and
extends
its
weatherization
services
that
it
offers
to
low-income
customers
to
include
all
of
its
customers
and
with
more
proficient
and
community-tailored
outreach
efforts.
We
also
propose
that
pgw
expands
eligibility
criteria
for
crp
so
that
more
households
are
able
to
afford
their
gas
bills.
A
L
A
L
Yes,
I'm
joanna
ward,
I
returned
to
philadelphia
to
retire
and
I'm
having
second
thoughts
with
the
new
information
I'm
discovering
from
my
research.
Let's
let
me
say
good
afternoon
and
thank
you
for
this
opportunity
to
speak
to
you
as
a
healthcare
professional.
I
understand
how
invaluable
clean
air
and
water
are
for
each
of
us
to
be
able
to
live
a
long
and
healthy
life.
L
L
The
process
is
very
toxic
to
communities
around
it
within
increased
cancer
rates,
asthma,
and
that
happens
their
collateral
damage
for
the
clean
energy
that
clean
lng
gas
that
burns
from
a
recent
air
quality
study
in
pennsylvania
by
mueller
at
carnegie
mellon.
We
now
know
that
citizens
living
in
pittsburgh
and
philadelphia
have
shortened
lifespans
as
a
result
of
the
shale
boom
in
our
state.
L
L
We
must
move
away
from
dirty
fossil
fuel
because
it
is
detrimental
to
our
health
and
methane
is
such
a
powerful
greenhouse
gas
that
warms
our
atmosphere
for
nine
years
after
it
is
released,
released
it
released
if
not
longer.
This
is
worsening
our
climate
crisis
that
we're
at
a
serious
point
with
it,
as
evidenced
by
increasing
numbers
of
devastating
fires
and
floods.
L
Now
is
the
time
to
make
amends
and
use
the
natural
gas
infrastructure
for
clean,
efficient,
renewable,
geothermal
thermal
energy,
as
is
successfully
being
done
in
boston
in
new
york,
infrastructure
money
will
help
place,
replace
weak
gas
lines
that
have
blown
up
homes
and
their
residents.
That
won't
happen
with
geothermal.
L
It
will
also
make
a
grid
for
all
renewable
energy.
That
is
our
future
to
save
our
us
and
our
planet.
We
don't
have
to
frack
with
millions
of
gallons
of
water
loaded
with
toxins
for
methane
or
to
burn
coal.
Fossil
fuel,
gas
or
oil
geothermal
is
efficient,
renewable
and
less
costly,
especially
combined
with
wind
and
solar
for
our
electric
energy
source.
Geothermal,
produces
only
about
a
sixth
of
the
carbon
dioxide
that
a
clean
natural
gas
fueled
power
plant
produces
and
very
little
if
any
of
the
nitrous
oxide
or
sulfur
bearing
gases.
L
L
L
We
need
to
move
to
geothermal
and
and
renewable
energy
and
natural
gas
is
not
renewable
energy,
philadelphia,
a
city
without
noise
from
transportation,
sirens
and
pollutants.
That's
the
future.
I
pray
that
philadelphia
pennsylvania
becomes
a
leader
in
transitioning
out
of
all
fossil
fuel.
Before
it's
too
late,
because
we
don't
know
where
the
turning
point
is
to
no
return
good
tripping
point,
and
that-
and
that
means
we
have
to
do
this
now-
not
not
in
2050-
we
have
to
do
it
now.
L
We
must
use
the
new
desperately
needed
infrastructure
money
wisely
for
electric
charging
stations
and
public
transportation
too,
and
thank
you
in
advance
for
making
pennsylvania
clean
by
transitioning
to
a
clean
energy
and
bringing
with
it
new
green
jobs.
And
if
that
I
can
answer
that
counts,
councilman's
question
about
about
what
what
it
means
to
freeze.
He
that
that
person
that
mr
josh,
mr
shapiro,
did
not
tell
you
the
truth
about
what's
happening
in
this.
The
plans
for
this
state
by
by
by
water,
not
by
us
that
I
just
learned
we
own
this.
L
As
we
are
collateral
damage.
That's
why
I
don't
want
to
stay
here.
I
fought
it
in
the
south,
texas
and
the
gulf
coast,
and
so
far
we
since
trump
since
biden
kane,
he
stopped
the
trump
thing
and
they're
going
to
evaluate
it
and
that's
hopefully
not
going
to
happen.
That's
the
last
pristine
area
in
texas,
and
so
when
they
freeze
that
it
causes
birth
defects,
it
causes
a
cancer.
I
mean
they
put
all
that
nitrous
oxide.
They
put
so
many
carcinogens
in
the
air.
L
We
already
have
pfas
in
our
drinking
water
that
that
that
to
never
go
through
a
municipal
treatment
plant
and
the
national
financial
nrgc
they've
done
studies
about
all
this,
and
it's
it's
detrimental
and
hopefully
that
the
drbc
who
I
spoke
recorded
comments
for
them
will
stop
fracking
in
pennsylvania
forever.
So
please,
let's
look
at
geothermal.
We
already
have
some
of
the
infrastructure.
Don't
make
it
better
for
gas,
make
it
better
for
geothermal,
it's
the
same
system
under
under
the
ground.
You
can
do
that
and
and
be
committed
for
the
people.
L
A
A
You
heard
about
some
of
the
issues
with
the
puc
and
our
ability
to
even
do
some
alternative
energy
opportunities
and
doing
that
with
a
unionized
labor
force
that
provides
great
safety
to
our
constituents
by
having
well-trained
employees
that
are
working
on
at
working
with
and
at
philadelphia
gas
works.
So
this
is
a
complex
issue
and
it's
an
issue
that
we
will
continue
to
delve
in.
A
That's
why
we'll
have
another
round
of
hearings
on
this
topic
and
hopefully,
in
that
second
round,
we'll
spend
a
little
bit
more
time
on
some
of
the
pilot
ideas
that
came
out
of
the
study
and
bring
in
some
other
departments.
That
can
also
provide
some
perspective
on
those
issues
as
well,
so
without
seeing
any
additional
witnesses
to
testify,
and
I'm
not
sure
of
any
closing
comments
from
any
members
of
council
and
if
they
do
please
indicate
as
such.
A
I
know
this
has
been
a
very
long
hearing
and
I
want
to
commend
our
stenographer
for
being
here
from
the
very
beginning.
I
I
apologize
when
I
asked
if
we
needed
to
take
a
break
earlier,
but
I
want
to
thank
you
for
being
here
throughout
the
entire
hearing,
as
well
as
all
the
other
participants
and
attendees,
seeing
no
additional
comments
from
members
of
council
or
additional
witnesses.
A
We
will
recess
this
hearing
to
the
call
the
chair,
which
is
myself
and
councilmember
johnson,
who
is
the
chair
of
the
community
of
transportation
and
public
utilities
and
we'll
continue
to
work
with
our
colleague,
councilmember
gilman
richardson,
who
is
the
chair
of
the
community
environment?
To
have
these
committees
come
together
once
again
to
have
another
conversation
regarding
this
very
important
topic
of
diversification
of
philadelphia
gas
works.
I
want
to
thank
everyone
for
your
time
and
attendance
this
afternoon
for
such
a
robust
and
engaged
conversation
concerning
such
an
important
topic.