►
Description
Meeting of Council's Committee of the Whole to hear testimony on the following bills/resolutions: Bill Nos. 160170, 160171, and 160172 & Resolution No. 160180 regarding the FY2017 Capital Budget.
Testimony from:
Francis Bielli, Board of Pensions and Retirement
http://phlcouncil.com/FY17-council-budget-center
A
B
2017
resolution
number
160
180
resolution
providing
for
the
approval
by
the
council
of
the
city
of
philadelphia,
a
revised
five-year
financial
plan
for
the
city
of
philadelphia,
covering
fiscal
years
2017
through
20
21,
and
incorporating
proposed
changes
with
respect
to
fiscal
year
2016,
which
is
to
be
submitted
by
the
mayor
to
the
Pennsylvania
intergovernmental
cooperation
authority.
The
authority,
pursuant
to
the
intergovernmental
cooperation
agreement
authorized
by
an
ordinance
of
this
council,
approved
by
the
mayor
on
january.
Three
1992
bill
number
156
three
dash
a
by
in
between
the
city
and
the
authority.
I
can.
A
Sit
today
we
continue
to
public
hearing
to
community
the
whole
to
consider
the
bills
read
by
the
clerk
they
constitute
proposed,
operating
and
capital
spending
measures
for
fiscal
2017,
a
capital
program
and
a
for
looking
capital
plan
for
fiscal
2017
through
fiscal
2022.
Mr.
state.
Today
we
were
actually
hear
testimony
from
the
following
departments:
pension
board,
septa
community
college
of
philadelphia
city
commissioners-
departmental
call
backs
in
particular
OPA
later
this
afternoon,
the
first
name,
the
individual
testifying,
is
Fran.
C
Good
morning,
good
morning,
council
president
Clark
members
of
council,
thank
you
for
inviting
us
here
today.
My
name
is
Francis
ble
executive,
director
of
the
board
of
pensions
with
me
as
deputy
director,
shameka
Taliaferro
compliance
officer,
Christopher,
diffuse
Co,
other
members
of
our
executive
staff
and
the
chair
of
the
board.
Mr.
Rob,
the
bow
before
I
read
it.
You
have
my
testimony,
but
before
I
read
a
brief
summary
I
just
wanted
to
thank
those
of
you.
C
We've
met
with
a
number
of
you
in
order
to
work
cooperatively
to
try
to
come
up
with
some
ideas
to
strengthen
the
plan
and
I
appreciate
your
participation
in
that
our
budget
request
is
slightly
less
than
FY
16
estimated
obligation
levels.
The
demographics
of
our
staff
is
seventy-seven
percent
female
57%
african-american,
four
percent
Hispanic
and
four
percent
asian-american.
Our
current
executive
staff
is
sixty
percent
female
and
sixty
percent
african-american
the
plans.
Funding
percentage
decreased
from
forty
five
point:
eight
percent
to
forty-five
percent.
C
C
According
to
the
board's
actuary,
while
the
funding
ratio
may
appear
to
reflect
lack
of
progress
in
funding,
the
decrease
in
the
assume
rate
of
return
represents
improvement
of
the
funds
risk
profile,
improving
the
likelihood
of
achieving
the
assumption
in
the
future.
The
fund's
investment
return
for
the
fiscal
year
ending
jun
2015
was
relatively
flat
at
0.30
percent,
although
recent
returns
have
not
captured
the
entire
market
upside,
the
long-term
returns
are
favorable
when
compared
to
other
well-known
funds,
for
example
over
a
three
five
and
10-year
period
through
june
thirtieth
2015.
C
Our
fund
has
outperformed
peacers
by
3.0
%,
2.27
%
and
1.3
5
%
respectively
for
each
period.
Our
fund
has
also
slightly
outperformed
CalPERS,
the
country's
largest
public
pension
fund.
Over
a
ten-year
period.
The
board
recently
voted
to
divest
from
all,
but
two
hedge
fund
investments
due
to
subpar
performance
and
high
fees
staff,
is
actively
renegotiating
lower
fees
with
the
two
remaining
hedge
funds
that
were
willing
to
do
so.
The
fund
is
also
continuing
its
effort
to
lower
fees
by
using
a
greater
number
of
index
funds
in
its
portfolio.
C
To
date,
approximately
forty
percent
of
the
fund's
assets
are
an
index
products.
The
board
recently
selected
a
new
investment
consultant.
The
trustees
and
staff
will
work
closely
with
the
consultant
to
review
the
asset
allocation
and
make
necessary
adjustments
going
forward
diversity.
Investment
managers
handle
16
point
zero,
seven
percent
of
the
fund's
assets.
This
accounts
for
approximately
seven
hundred
and
sixteen
point
three
million
dollars
through
the
second
quarter.
The
total
percentage
of
all
investment
fees
paid
to
diversity
managers
was
18
point.
Fourteen
percent,
an
increase
from
the
14
point:
three:
five
percent.
C
In
the
previous
fiscal
year,
using
our
investment
manager
database,
the
board
once
again
conducted
a
utilization
study
to
determine
the
universe
of
divestment,
managers
that
meet
the
funds
criteria,
which
is
having
a
three-year
track
record,
and
at
least
one
hundred
million
dollars
assets
under
management.
The
results
are
that
nine
point:
five
percent
of
the
firms
and
six
point:
one
percent
of
the
products
had
greater
than
fifty
percent
minority
or
women
ownership.
The
funds
current
lineup
of
investment
managers
includes
22.2
percent
diversity
managers.
C
Local
managers
account
for
twelve
point
two:
eight
percent
of
the
assets
under
management,
both
of
those
figures
far
surpassing
the
the
universe
that
the
utilization
study
showed
us.
The
board
has
also
pursued
socially
responsible
initiatives
through
our
shareholder
proxy
voting,
for
example
the
board,
let
a
shareholder
proposal
to
cabot
oil
and
gas
requesting
that
cabot
and
prove
its
procedures
for
consideration
of
diversity
and
female
candidates
for
board
of
directors.
As
a
result,
cabot
added
their
first
female
board
member
and
made
changes
to
its
published
selection
criteria
for
board
candidates.
C
The
board
also
continues
to
work
as
a
member
of
the
thirty
percent
coalition,
which
is
a
national
organization
committed
to
the
goal
of
women
holding
thirty
percent
of
board
seats
across
public
companies.
We
respectfully
request
that
you
approve
our
budget
and
we'd
be
glad
to
answer
any
questions.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
Let's
start
out
with
your
page,
one
of
your
testimony
talks
about
the
board
continuing
to
work
diligently
to
reduce
management
fees
and
costs
and,
as
you
know,
there's
been
a
conversation
around
this
issue
as
it
relates
to
hedge
funds.
So
can
you
talk
to
me
in
level
of
detail
about
how
to
board
is
working
to
reduce
the
management
fees
and
are
we
still
dealing
with
or
anticipate
dealing
with,
hedge
funds?
We.
C
Currently
have
to
hedge
funds
remaining
or
portfolio,
and
we
have.
We
are
renegotiating
those
fees,
though
their
works.
They
are
two
of
the
seven
hedge
funds
that
agreed
to
renegotiate
their
fee
structure
with
us.
The
reason
we
did
that
is
because,
frankly,
we've
been
getting
subpar
performance
from
the
hedge
funds,
especially
given
the
fees
that
they
charge.
I,
give
you
an
example
that,
two
years
ago,
our
fees
were
approximately
31
million
dollars.
C
They've
been
reduced
to
under
28
million
dollars
for
the
past
fiscal
year,
which
is
a
significant
reduction
that
came
to
0.62
percent
of
our
portfolio.
So
when
you
look
at
an
expense
ratio,
that
would
be
the
equipment
0.62
percent.
However,
out
of
that
31
million
two
years
ago,
even
though
it
was
only
roughly
ten
percent
of
our
portfolio,
hedge
funds
account
for
17
million
of
the
31
million
dollars
in
fees
unless
you're
getting
superior
returns,
the
boot
the
board
determine
that
it's
just
it's
just
not
worth
it.
C
The
returns
have
been
subpar
so
as
of
now,
we
are
not
looking
to
invest
further
in
hedge
funds
at
this
point,
unless
they
can
make
a
compelling
case
that
their
net
return,
which
is,
after
all
fees
paid,
are
going
to
surpass
our
soon
rate
of
return.
One
other
thing
that
which
is
7.75
percent
one
other
thing
that
we're
negotiating
with
going
forward
with
many
of
our
investment
managers
is
something
called
a
hurdle
rate
that
they
don't
start
to
get
their
fees
until
they
meet
that
hurdle
of
our
assumed
rate
of
return,
and
that's
Annie.
C
A
So
the
kind
of
leads
me
to
my
next
question
of
reference
of
important
will
hurtle
fees.
So
you
know
I'm
a
late
person
politician
by
the
late
person
is
some
aspects
of
government.
So
I
see
this
commercial.
You
may
have
seen
in
commercial
with
the
dad
and
the
little
kid
walking
down
the
street
and
they're
talking
about
investments,
and
you
know
the
dads
talking
about
yeah
we
invested
at
and
the
kid
ask
simple
questions
he
said.
Well,
you
know:
do
you
make
money
as
well?
Sometimes
he
said
well,
what
happens
when
you
don't
make
money?
A
Do
you
still
have
to
pay
them
and
the
dad
says
yes
and
the
kid
says
why
so
I
guess
I
asked
that
question
in
terms
of
our
investment
and
who
we
contracted
to
our
investment?
Do
we
still
have
to
pay
certain
fees
associated
with
their
activity?
Even
if
we
lose
money
and
if
the
answer
is
yes,
then
I
may
ask:
why
is.
C
C
So
two
percent
is
a
management
fee,
twenty
percent
as
a
performance
fee,
it
could
be
one
and
a
half
in
15,
but
let's
just
stick
with
two
and
twenty,
so
yeah
you're
right,
you
know
if
they
have
a
bad
year,
they
say
tough,
pay
me
two
percent.
You
have
another.
Bear
tough
pay
me
two
percent,
that's
not
good!
All
right!
We
don't
want
to
do
that.
So
we
want
to
have
a
hurdle
rate.
C
If
they
get
above
our
assume
rate
of
return,
then
you
can
start
instituting
the
fees
and
that
that's
not
unheard
of
in
the
industry.
The
performance
fee.
Okay,
if
you
perform
at
a
certain
level,
we're
happy
to
pay
the
performance,
not
happy,
but
you
know
what
will
agree
to
pay
the
performance
fee,
but
the
management
fee
is
something
that
we
don't
think
is
is
justified
unless,
unless
the
fund
is
making
us
money
all.
C
Think
in
the
alternative
investments
we're
working
on
that
as
far
as
the
regular
law
only
equity,
which
is
public
stocks
and
fixed
income,
there
are
really
no
hurdle
fees
in
those
areas,
but
you
pay
a
much
much
smaller
fee.
For
example,
in
our
index
products
we
may
pay
two
basis
points
for
our
fun,
which
is
which
is
which
is
nothing
it's
just
it's
cheaper
than
both
Vanguard
charges
for
their
phones.
So
in
that
respect,
it's
very
good.
C
If
you
take
out
our
alternative
assets,
our
expense
ratio
for
the
rest
of
our
fund
is
about
0.13
percent,
which
is
tremendous,
is
tremendously
low,
and
that's
good,
so
I
think
that
commercial
is
is
really
a
good
point,
because
what
the
board
is
trying
to
do
here
is
to
get
back
to
basics,
to
return
to
basics
and
sometimes
the
the
investments
that
are
the
most
exotic
and
some
people
think
they're
the
most
attractive
aren't
always
the
case.
Okay,.
A
In
one
last
question
that
I'll
give
up
the
mic,
the
the
pension
boards
interaction
with
the
government,
what
what
do
you
anticipate
the
return
on
the
sales
tax
legislation
that
was
put
together
by
the
General
Assembly
guess
a
couple
of
years
ago?
Was
it
the
projections
didn't
meet
expectations
earlier,
where
we
actually
had
to
spend
general
fund
ours,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
the
borrowing.
Are
you
is
the
pension
board
involved
in
that
level
of
conversation
as
it
reject
the
income?
The
revenue
generated
by
the
sales
tax?
The
state
sales
tax
proposal
was.
C
A
D
A
What
real,
quick
I'm
sorry
is
there
anything
done
differently
in
terms
of
projecting
the
revenues
generated
now
versus
the
two
years
where
we
did
not
meet
our
expectation
or
was
there's
just
something:
an
anomaly
in
the
the
economy
that
created
that
shortfall,
yeah.
E
E
The
pension
calls
15.4
percent
of
our
proposed
FY
17
budget
retirees
outnumbering
current
employees.
You
know
we're
struggling
to
meet
our
MMO
10.5
billion
dollars
of
unfunded
liability,
of
actuarial
liability,
4.8
and
assets
and
5.7
billion
of
unfunded
liability.
You
are
under
great
strain,
have
done
an
awesome
job
and
I
just
wanted
to
note
for
the
record.
E
You
haven't
gotten
a
lot
of
credit
for
having
reduced
the
assumed
rate
of
return
from
eight
point:
seven:
five
percent
in
FY
08
27
point
seven,
five
percent
in
16,
but
I
needed
to
state
that
for
the
record,
because
if
you
read
some
articles
that
I've
seen
over
the
past
six
months,
it
would
be
as
if
you
are
living
in
fantasy
land
and
have
never
taken
that
step.
So
thank
you
for
your
prudence.
Thank.
C
E
Let
me
just
start
by
talking
about
an
issue,
that's
of
grave
importance
to
me,
and
you
mentioned
it
a
little
when
you
talked
about
hedge
funds
and
the
direction
that
the
fun
is
taken,
but
a
Retta
article
recently,
that
was
in
the
fun
fire
financial,
a
time
series
and
it
talked
about
New,
Jersey,
New,
York,
pensions,
demand,
diversity
and
management,
evaluation,
and
so
across
the
across
the
country.
We
have
ninety-seven
percent
of
hedge
fund
owners,
a
white
men
and
eighty-three
percent
of
portfolio
managers
are
white.
E
However,
there
was
a
McKinsey
study
that
found
that
companies
across
industries
in
the
top
25%
in
terms
of
gender
diversity
and
racial
and
ethnic
diversity
were
fifteen
to
thirty
five
percent,
more
likely
to
produce
financial
returns
above
the
median
respectively
and
I
mentioned
that
to
say.
Not
only
does
this
diversity
and
inclusion
does
it
leave
and
make
good
financial
moral
sense,
but
it
makes
good
economic
and
financial
sense
with
that.
C
So
the
in
the
hedge
fund
area,
none
of
the
managers
that
were
terminated
were
diversity
managers.
In
fact,
one
of
the
managers-
hedge
fund
managers,
that
remain
elizabeth
park
is
owned
by
an
african-american
male
ave
cleveland,
and
you
are
exactly
right
in
that
Mackenzie
study
that
you
cite
because
we
have
found
that
to
be
the
case
over
the
last
several
years.
Is
that
the
what
what
people
call
them
in
the
industry
emerging
managers
which
are
smaller
managers
right
there?
C
C
We
attend
the
emerging
managers
seminar
each
year
in
Chicago,
and
we
are
very
active
with
organizations
such
as
NASP
and
maps
that
that
are
largely
diversity
and
emerging
manager
focused
so
that
that's
very
important
to
us
and
that's
why
our
assets
under
management
for
emerging
manager
managers
more
than
double
what
our
utilization
study
shows
is
the
universe
out
there,
which
is
nine
point
four
percent.
So
it's
very
very
important
to
us
and
another
aspect
of
that
is
we
used
to
have
a
managed
a
fund
of
fund
manager
handle
our
diversity
program.
C
Pfm
and
F
is
used
to
handle
that,
but
we
brought
that
direct
in-house
and
that
has
several
effects
number
one.
The
emerging
managers
get
to
market
themselves
by
saying
we
do
business
directly
with
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
as
opposed
to
saying
we
do
business
with
a
fund
of
fund
manager
who
also
does
business
with
the
city
of
Philadelphia.
Let.
E
Me
just
xfer
for
my
benefit
and
other
council
members
and
show
those
who
have
been
here.
They
know
this.
Could
you
all
provide
us
with
a
summary
of
the
European
to
overall
sort
of
diversity
in
portfolio
management
over
at
the
fun
and
and
just
if
it
said,
you
know,
12
pager,
that
sort
of
outlines
the
firm's
the
value
of
the
contracts?
That
would
just
be
a
quick
snapshot
that
would
be
beneficial
to
me.
Yeah.
E
Thank
you
that
my
next
question
is
in
regards
to
a
trend
that
we've
seen
taking
place
across
the
nation
and
the
issue
of
a
sort
of
retirement
security
has
been
one
I've,
been
very
passionate
about,
and
we've
seen
this
trend,
and
we
saw
it
during
the
last
contract
negotiations
with
this
move
to
or
the
inclusion
of,
a
plan
10.
So
the
trend
that
we're
seeing
across
the
nation
is
a
move
from
traditional
defined-benefit
plans
that
provide
income
and
a
short
income
to
the
defined
contribution
plans
which
in
essence,
shift
the
risk
of
management.
E
C
Our
act
I'll
start
with
the
cost
savings
first,
so
the
the
actuary
has
indicated
that
the
to
get
a
exact
number
of
the
cost
savings
at
this
young
point
in
playing
10
is
would
be
highly
speculative,
just
because
the
number
of
people
in
plant
n
are
so
low
at
this
point
that
it's
hard
to
come
up
with,
with
with
some
concrete
numbers
as
to
what
the
savings
may
or
may
not
be.
However,
each
person
is
capped
at
20
years
of
credited
service
under
plant
n,
whereas
in
plan,
why?
C
That's
not
the
case
under
plant
n,
a
person's
getting
one
point,
two
five
percent
for
each
year
of
credit
service,
whereas
under
plan
why
it's
2.2%
for
the
first
10
years
and
2.0
percent
for
each
year
thereafter.
So
there
are
some
of
the
immediate
differences,
so
there
will
be
some
sort
of
savings,
but
again
we
can't
pinpoint
as
a
dollar
finger
what
those
savings
would
be.
Thank.
E
You
for
for
that
response
and
we'll
continue
to
watch
that
closely.
I
just
needed
to
point
out
for
the
record
that
an
assured
income
versus
the
vagaries
of
the
of
the
market
is
a
the
trend
or
direction.
That
I
would
hope
that
we
could
continue
to
move
towards.
I
know
there
have
been
some
some
other
thoughts
and
ideas
presented
as
potential
options
and
I
know.
E
We
in
this
body
will
get
an
opportunity
to
explore
those
in
the
near
future,
but
the
idea
of
shifting
the
burden
of
retirement
security
to
individual
employees
I
don't
want
to
even
have
to
make
a
determination.
You
know
about
whether
it
should
be
stocks.
You
know,
or
some
some
other
sort
of
safer
mode
of
savings,
because
that's
not
what
I
do
is
kind
of
like
when
you
know
you
go
see
the
cardiologist
and
he
or
she
does
a
great
job,
but
I
don't
want
them
putting
a
perm
in
my
hair
right.
E
So
you
know
we
work,
but
you
know
I,
don't
think
individual
employees,
particularly
with
the
vagaries
associated
with
the
wealth
disparity
in
in
in
minority
communities,
with
those
who
actually
have
a
savings.
So
I
have
a
few
more
questions
that
mr.
president
I'll
get
to
those
during
the
next
round,
but
thank
you
for
your
responses.
Thank.
F
C
So,
for
long
only
equity,
public
public
stock
funds
and
for
fixed
income,
it's
an
RFP
process,
so
we
publish
an
RFP
on
our
website
and
companies
respond
to
the
RFP
and
those
RFPs
are
reviewed.
They
are
reviewed
by
a
committee,
they
are
narrowed
down
and
then
normally
the
finalists
have
an
opportunity
to
make
a
presentation
to
the
board
and
the
board
will
select
the
the
investment
managers
and.
C
Varies
on
the
on
the
mandate,
so,
for
example,
a
long-only
large
cap,
equity
manager
would
have
a
large
number
of
responses.
A
more
let's
say
an
international
small
cap
fund
would
have
is
a
much
smaller.
Universal
will
get
many
many
less
responses,
but
it
could
be
upwards
of
60
to
70
firms
for
a
large
cat
mandate
and.
F
C
C
For
example,
the
board
may
hire
someone
to
fit
within
the
asset
allocation,
that
is
a
value
manager,
let's
say,
and,
and
they
invest
in
companies
that
they
feel
are
undervalued
and
that
over
time,
that
true
value
will
be
represented,
so
they
may
be
out
of
favor
at
any
given
particular
period,
but
the
board
may
hold
on
to
them
because
again,
the
market
is
cyclical
and
their
their
type
of
investing
may
return
down
the
road.
Well,.
F
C
Evaluated
every
single
month
are
other.
Are
our
consultant
comes
in
every
single
month
with
something
called
a
flash
report
which
is
available
on
the
pension
board
website
and
gives
the
return
each
and
every
month,
for
the
trailing
three
months
fiscal
year
to
date,
calendar
year
to
date,
one
year
three
year,
five
year
and
since
inception
returns.
So
the
Board
sees
these
the
consultant
reviews
them
staff
reviews
them
every
single
month.
We
do
more
in-depth
analysis
of
our
investment
managers
on
a
quarterly
basis
on
a
rotating
quarterly
basis.
Where
staff
actually
writes
a
report.
C
The
consultant
actually
writes
a
report
on
every
single
manager
to
ensure
that
number
one
they're
performing
well
number
two.
They
haven't
changed
their
mandate,
which
they
were
originally
hired
for
and
then
number
three
there's
been
no
key
personnel
changes
which
which
which
may
alter
you
know
our
position
on
that
manager.
So,
yes,
it's
a
it's
a
constant
investment
and
even
between
the
monthly
board
meetings,
the
staff
is
regularly
monitoring.
F
C
We
have
firms
that
have
been
with
us
for
probably
since
inception
that
which
would
be
an
index
right.
An
index
is
the
index.
It's
not
subject
to
the
vagaries
of
an
individual
investment
manager,
for
example
right.
It's
always
subject
to
the
vagaries
of
the
market
right,
because
the
market
will
do
what
it
will
do.
But,
yes,
we
have
index
managers
that
have
been
with
us
since
my
inception,
I
refer
to
1988
because
that's
when
it
started
being
measured
on
a
regular
basis.
Okay,
thank.
F
G
Thank
You
council
president,
sir,
just
a
few
questions,
and
most
of
this
was
done
through
I
got
through
Pike
and
other
sources.
As
far
as
questions
I'm
going
to
ask
you
and
I
realize
these
are
sensitive
questions,
but
I
figured
I
might
as
well
go
for
what's
it
if
I'm
doing
it
for
the
hopefully
the
benefit
of
the
city.
So
here's
one
of
the
first
question
our
employee
contributions,
I
know,
there's
a
sensitive
subject
or
employee
contributions.
G
The
median
non-uniformed
employee
pension
contributions
in
the
ten
largest
US
cities
are
six
percent
for
the
uniformed
employees
in
I'm.
Sorry,
six
percent
overall,
while
uniformed
is
eight
percent.
We
don't
have
that
in
Philadelphia.
Just
by
following
the
rules
of
what
everybody
else
is
doing,
we
would
generate
45
million
dollars
more
per
year
for
the
pension.
So
my
question
to
you
is
that
something
that
you
would
support
the
fixed
pension
or
is
that
something
that
you
would
not
support?
I
as.
C
G
C
G
C
C
G
G
Question
for
now
we
have
this
clause.
I
guess
that
pension
compensation
is
highly
affected
by
overtime.
We
have
people
to
work
tremendous
amounts
of
overtime,
certain
years,
which
causes
their
pension
costs
to
go
up
and
I
think
the
study
was
done,
that
the
impact
is
roughly
5.3
million
dollars
annually
because
of
the
overtime
consideration
on
pensions.
G
C
G
What,
if
it's
possible
I
think
we
have
the
solvus
pension
problem
is
a
series
of
six
steps.
These
may
be
some
of
them,
but
I
would
like
to
enter
in
the
near
future.
Maybe
you
can
come
up
with
revenue,
finance
department
and
come
up
back
to
us
with
six
steps.
You
think
we
should
do
that
are
realistic,
that
we
can
enact
the
City
Council
to
make
this
pension
healthy
and
available
and
make
sure
it's
available
for
those
people
that
are
entitled
to
it.
Download.
F
Accounts
president
well
good
morning
on
following
up
some
questions
that
both
counseling
Parker
counselor
and
Councilman
Tannenberg
asked
and
I'm
one
to
focus
on
the
opportunity
fund.
From
my
understanding,
the
previous
chief
investment
officer
was
the
one
that
made
the
change
from
the
manager
manager
relationship
to
what
we
currently
have
and
one
of
those
managers.
This
F
is
what
you
stated
earlier
in
your
testimony,
which
is
a
firm
of
color
and
based
on
your
testimony,
you
stated,
by
moving
from
the
manager
manager
scenario,
to
having
a
direct
relationship
with
the
city.
F
It
provides
a
better
interaction
between
some
of
these
emerging
managers.
My
question
is:
how
has
that
worked
in
reference
to
what
type
of
outreach
has
the
Board
of
pensions
made
in
weapons
to
develop
in
our
relationship
and
also
going
forward
to
make
sure
that
we're
increasing
the
number
of
emerging
managers?
Would
you
state,
in
your
testimony,
are
doing
somewhat
of
a
better
job
in
getting
a
better
rate
of
return
for
the
city,
so.
C
Let
me
just
start
off
by
saying
the
previous
CIO
made
a
recommendation
to
the
board
and
the
board
accepted
that
recommend,
so
the
board
is
the
one
who
changed
the
opportunity
fund.
Not
the
CIO
number
two
is
that,
when
f
is
had
the
portfolio
only
fifty
percent
of
the
managers,
where
diversity
managers
the
rest,
were
not
diversity
managers.
So
that's
that
that's
the
second
thing.
C
The
third
thing
is
yes,
the
emerging
managers
themselves
have
indicated
to
us
that
they
like
doing
business
directly
with
the
city
of
Philadelphia,
to
be
able
to
use
that
to
to
market
themselves
to
other
public
pension
funds.
That,
in
essence,
is
the
purpose
of
an
emerging
manager.
Program
is
to
give
these
emerging
managers
an
opportunity
in
order
for
them
to
be
able
to
go
and
grow
their
business
elsewhere.
C
However,
I
don't
want
to
lose
track
of
the
fact
that
the
board's
first
and
foremost
obligation
is
to
hire
good
quality
investment
managers,
and
we
agree
with
Councilwoman
Parker
and
that
study
that
she
alluded
to
that.
We
have
found
that
the
emerging
managers
have
outperformed
a
lot
of
the
more
established
managers.
We
just
it's
true
that
that
report
has
been
true,
so
we
have
reached
out
through
our
consultants,
as
I
indicated,
we
just
hired
a
new
consultant.
C
The
name
is
Marquette
consultants,
they're
based
out
of
Chicago
and
Marquette
holds
an
emerging
manager
symposium,
a
national
symposium
each
and
every
year,
and
we
will
be.
We
will
attend
that
in
fact,
that's
the
symposium
that
we've
been
attending
in
Chicago
for
the
last
couple
of
years,
so
and
marquette
themselves
has
a
a
very,
very
good
outreach
to
minority
managers.
They
showed
us
the
lineup
of
minority
managers
that
they
have
reviewed
and
they
have
access
to.
So
we
anticipate
that
the
twenty
two
percent
of
that
we
have
right
now
will
just
increase
going
forward.
F
C
F
C
F
C
A
H
H
C
We
have
a
number
of
restrictions,
but
I
have
to
check
on
that
I,
don't
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
if
we
do
or
not.
I
know
that
Pfizer
would
have
been
in
in
the
mix
of
our
index.
Products
and
I
know
that
they
pulled
out
of
that
that
merger
that
would
have
had
them
located
outside
of
the
US
but
yeah.
We
have
a
number
of
restrictions,
but
I
don't
know
we
can
have
our
data.
We
can
check
that
on
our
diocese.
H
H
H
Particular
because
it's
important
for
us
to
understand
about
which
companies
are,
you
know,
invested
in
building,
and
we
want
to
be
thoughtful
about
companies
that
are
doing.
You
know
other
kinds
of
things
to
avoid
payment
of
taxes
so
and
how
many?
How
much
of
our
pension
fund
is
invested
in
companies
are
headquartered
in
Philadelphia
in
the
Delaware
Valley
than
the
state
of
Pennsylvania.
So.
C
C
H
C
Far
as
investment
managers,
maybe
the
amount
of
investment
apply
to
our
rfps
there's,
not
enough
local
managers.
It
could
be
that
the
managers
are
just
just
not
performing
as
well
as
the
other
managers
who
are
who
are
also
applying.
There
could
be
various
factors,
I
don't
know
exactly.
But
again.
If
the
managers
are
two
equal
managers,
we
will.
We
will
always
opt
with
local
sure,
but.
H
Have
you
made
an
effort
or
has
has
your
department
made
an
effort
to
understand
the
analysis
about?
What's
what
are
the
barriers
to
blocking
greater
investment
in
Philadelphia
I?
Wouldn't
want
this
to
be
all
on
surmising
of
who
or
what
might
be
available
because
it
sounds
like
we're
in
the
area
of
guessing
there.
C
H
Question
is:
do
you
have
have
you
done
a
fuller
analysis
of
the
availability
of
local
managers?
So
you're
saying
my
question
was:
are
you
identifying
what
particular
barriers
there
are
two
not
providing
greater
investment
in
our
local
economy
and
you
put
out
there
that
you
are
unclear
about
it
could
be
that
we
don't
have
an
availability
of
local
managers
or
we
don't
have
local
managers
that
perform
so
to
me,
there's
a
big
difference
between
the
two
and
I
would
like
to
know
whether
you
are
being.
H
C
Tell
you
that
I'm
not
confused
about
at
all
the
bar
to
whether
we're
investing
in
local
managers
is
whether
they're
performing
or
not
there
there
is.
There
is
no
other
bar.
There
is
no
bar
as
to
availability
or
whether
the
local
manager
can
or
cannot
do
business
with
the
fund.
As
I
said,
if
they're
performing
and
they
reply
to
our
mandate,
we
all
things
being
equal,
we
would
prefer
to
have
the
local
manager
so.
I
Had
you
know
continuous
conversations,
I
know
Rob
bows
back
there
as
he
smiles
at
me,
but
about
the
pension
reform
of
the
pension
board
and
and
that's
kind
of
out
there.
But
in
addition
to
that
recently
controller
buck
Yvette's
introduced
an
idea
and
I
actually
went
over
with
his
invitation
to
talk
to
him
about
his
concept
around
how
to
reduce
the
pension,
debt
and
I
know
that
he
is
kind
of
getting
those
his
assumptions.
I
think,
or
other
things
kind
of
checked
out.
D
You're
done
about
that
the
buyout
proposal
yep,
so
we've
we've
talked
a
great
deal
and
at
the
controller's
requests
are
actually
did
an
analysis.
There
are
actually
two
proposals.
One
is
a
straight
buyout
and
one
is
a
payment
to
members
to
have
them
get
an
upfront
payment
in
exchange
for
converting
to
a
less
generous
defined
benefit
plan
right.
The
actuary
gave
some
preliminary
results
of
the
that
analysis
at
our
last
board
meeting.
Based
on
that
analysis.
D
At
the
controller
suggestion,
we've
kind
of
we're
not
going
to
pursue
this
straight
buyout
option
and
we've
asked
for
further
analysis
of
the
option
to
have
an
upfront
payment
in
exchange
for
moving
to
a
less
generous
defined
benefit
plan,
so
that
analysis
will
probably
see
at
our
next
board
meeting.
Okay.
I
So
while
you
wait
for
that
analysis,
so
so
I
had
said
in
a
newspaper
interview
that
I
was
not
familiar
with
the
details
of
his
plan.
So
I
didn't
really
want
to
comment,
but
of
course,
I
would
be
concerned
about
people
cashing
in
on
needed
retirement
funds.
But
what
about
people
who
have
a
couple
of
pensions
they
retired
early
from
the
city?
They
got
another
job.
They
have
another
pension
that
work
another
job
they
may
want
to
have
an
early
bite
out
of
their
pension
and
they're,
not
really
at
risk
of
not
having
retirement
funds.
D
I
think
we
were
still
looking
at
the
second
option,
which
would
probably
be
attractive
to
them.
The
first
option
actually
didn't
work
from
the
pension
funds.
Respectful.
There
wasn't
actually
a
good
enough
return
for
the
pension
fund.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
whatever
we
did
would
actually
help
the
fund
right.
I
I
Contracting,
you
know
people
get
a
certain
amount
of
work
and
based
on
the
return
that
they're
getting,
they
increase
the
work
that
they
get
with
the
pension
board
and
if
they
go
below
a
certain
amount,
then
you
know
I
know
we
need
to
give
people
a
chance
in
the
markets
fluctuate,
but
wouldn't
we
cut
them
off
earlier?
In
other
words,
wouldn't
we
have?
D
Friend
may
want
to
add
more,
but
we
look
every
month
at
results
and
based
on
those
results
we
determine
and
what
actions
to
take
with
with
managers,
whether
to
increase
the
amount
they
have
decrease,
terminate
them.
But,
as
you
said,
it's
not
something
that
you
would
look
at
one
month
and
that
was
a
bad
month.
Won't
get
rid
that
manager.
You
want
to
look
at
them
over
a
period
of
time.
D
I
So
before
you
answer
that
or
if
you're
going
to
answer
that
I
will
say
that
I
have
proposed
I,
don't
know
where
this
is
going
to
go,
but
in
a
bill
that
we
add
for
professional
level
managers
to
the
pension
board.
For
the
reason
you
stated
that,
although
there's
a
lot
of
smart
people
with
public
interest
at
heart,
you're
not
really
professionals
when
it
comes
to
pensions,
and
so
you
have
looked
at
the
returns
and
people
before
you
have
looked
at
returns.
And
yet
here
we
are
in
this
dismal
situation.
I
Wouldn't
you,
in
other
words,
you
look
at
it,
you
take
it
it
within
context,
but
over
a
period
of
time
it.
You
know
we're
in
a
lot
of
debt
and
now
we're
replacing
managers
but
shouldn't
we
have
someone
who
can
kind
of
sense
what
the
market
is.
What's
going
on
in
pension
world
and
kind
of
give
us
that
feedback
a
lot
earlier
so.
D
We
have
outside
consultants
who
are
experts
in
the
market,
they
give
us
advice
and
we
have
a
staff
of
professionals,
so
we
do
have
those
professional
eyes
looking
at
it
and
as
France
head.
If
you
look
at
our
returns
over
time,
they've
actually
exceeded
other
funds
in
both
the
35
and
I
guess
the
10-year
period
so
I
mean.
D
I
D
And
I,
don't
think
that
anyone
sitting
is
table
is
said,
there's
not
a
problem,
but
I,
don't
think
the
problem
is
because
of
the
returns
or
that
this
that
we
can
earn
our
way
out
of
our
problems.
We
have
a
fund,
for
example,
where
we
have
more
retirees
than
actives.
You
know
so
we're
a
very
mature
plan.
That's
it
that's
the
big
part
of
our
problem.
It
has
changed
dramatically
over
the
last
10
to
15
years.
The
amount
of
benefits
we
paid
have
gone
up
over
10
to
15
years,
so
yeah.
D
I
Not
an
investment
problem
but,
for
example,
I,
am
very
encouraged
by
the
idea.
I
don't
know
if
it's
a
good
idea
or
not
that
controller
buck
of
its
came
up
with,
because
it
does
address
what
you
just
said.
We
have
more
pensioners
in
one
program
as
to
another,
but
wouldn't
people
on
a
pension
board
come
up
with
that
idea
before,
like
long
before,
what.
I
I
E
I've
reserved
comments
during
the
first
round
relative
to
the
proposal
that
was
put
forth
because
I
know
councilman,
dare
green,
introduced
a
resolution
calling
for
hearing
on
the
issue
and
I
knew
you
all
were
working
on
your
actuarial
report,
but
I
did
note,
wanted
to
note
for
the
record
that
from
a
private
sector
perspective,
particularly
as
it
relates
to
defined
benefit
pensions,
that
the
Treasury
US
Treasury,
along
with
the
IRS,
have
said
that
buyouts
are
not
allowed
in
the
private
sector.
So
again,
I
wanted
to
reserve
comment.
E
I
wanted
to
wait
for
your
reports,
but
in
lieu
of
the
fact
that
it
was
just
the
issue
was
just
raised
in
the
line
of
questioning
from
councilman.
Oh
just
wanted
to
note
that
for
the
record,
but
I
look
forward
to
receiving
further
information.
The
next
point
I
wanted
to
mention
was
this
idea
of
revenue
generating
solutions
and
a
you
know:
council
president
Clark,
when
you've
been
on
the
front
line
and
that
struggle
I
take
this
idea
of
trying
to
find
a
way
to
generate
revenue
to
bring
some.
E
You
know
to
an
improved
the
fund
balance
and
the
stability
of
our
pension
fund
very
personal,
because
going
back
to
house
bill
1828
before
Jill
Williams
was
the
sheriff.
It
was
his
bill
with
your
support,
along
with
chairman
Evans
Mayor
Nutter,
that
allowed
the
city
of
Philadelphia
12
an
act,
an
additional
one
percent
sales
tax
right
to
help
us
win
the
market
tanked
in
08
increased
our
amortization
period,
so
that
we
could
help
to.
You
know,
get
on
a
sound
footing.
In
addition
to
that,
the
sales
tax
that
we
just
enacted
when
that
was
expired.
E
Okay,
council,
president
Clark,
you
may
remember
that
we
were
almost
lone
wolves
crying
in
in
the
wind,
noting
that
five
billion
dollars
and
legacy
costs
associated
with
what
was
then
according
to
the
fy14
actuarial
valuation,
represented
five
billion
dollars
of
legacy
costs
with
which
is
associated
with
plan
67.
When
I
hear
this
potential
revenue
ready
solutions
want
to
be
full
disclosure
Rob
the
bow.
You
know
you
know
this
I,
take
it
very
personal,
I'm,
happy
to
hear
about
the
task
force
council
president
Clark,
you,
the
administration,
labor
everybody
at
the
table.
E
That's
how
I
think
the
solution
should
be
generated
and
most
of
the
solutions
will
come
and
should
come
through
the
collective
bargaining
process.
So
I
just
wanted
to
note
that
I
believe
that
firmly
I
do
want
to
go
to
this.
The
issue
of
generating
revenue
and
I
want
to
just
X
about
pyka
help
me
right
because
I
forget
the
number.
When
is
the
date
that
revenue
generated
from
pyka
war
or
in
essence
that
that
that
that
tax
will
sort
of
be
expired,
is
their
upcoming
days.
D
D
I
think
there
are
two
parts
to
that:
one
is
that
the
pike
attacks
itself
generates
I,
think
it's
somewhere
about
350
million
dollars.
It
may
be
a
little
more
than
that
that
money
is
used
to
pay
off
debt
service
for
pike
abonnés.
The
rest
of
that
comes
to
the
city's
general
fund.
The
portion
that
goes
to
pay
debt
service
by
2023
will
be
about
45
million
dollars.
E
Okay,
let
me
just
note
that,
even
when
that
day
comes
I
want
pie
cut
in
existence,
I
think
Philadelphia
has
been
been
a
model
because
of
us
establishing
pike.
Are
lots
of
municipalities
across
the
country?
Looked
at
our
pie,
co
model
and
said
that
is
the
way
to
go
to
avoid
bankruptcy,
but
no
lots
of
people
have
their
eyes
and
are
thinking
about
this
as
a
possible
solution
in
the
future.
E
In
addition
to
that,
I
wanted
to
ask
you
about
an
issue
that
we've
heard
a
great
deal
about
when
you
talk
about
sort
of
risk,
shifting
and
in
retirement
savings.
Have
you
heard
anything
about
Merlin
recently
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
Merlin
just
did
and
if
you're
familiar
with
New
York
City's
I.
C
So
Maryland
has
read
yesterday
actually
in
pension
investments
right.
So
Marilyn
has
just
recently
enacted
a
plan
allowing
private
employees
who
don't
have
access
to
a
retirement
plan
to
participate
in
a
state-sponsored
plan,
defined
contribution
type
of
plan
where
they
can
invest.
They
can
direct
a
portion
of
their
paycheck
into
the
state
defined
contribution
plan
and
and
it
would
be
mandated
payroll
deduction
in
order
to
have
savings
in
a
retirement
plan
that
they
otherwise
would
not
have.
Now
that
that
is
on
this
state
level.
C
It
is
not
yet
allowed
on
the
municipal
level,
but
that's
that's
something.
We've
talked
about
a
couple
of
times
and
and
we
think
that
that
certainly
would
be
beneficial
for
the
retirement
security
as,
as
you
have
stated,
Councilwoman
Parker
many
times
for
people
who
don't
otherwise
have
access
to
a
retirement
plan.
It's
this
something
it's
scalable
right,
we're
able
to
scale
that
and
if
people
want
to
participate
in
that
it's
a
defined
contribution
plan.
There's
a
there's,
a
line
up
of
investment
funds,
including,
what's
called
a
stable
asset
plan.
C
If
someone
doesn't
want
to
put
their
money
at
risk
of
the
markets-
and
it's
run
by
by
professional
investment
group-
and
it
would
it's
something
that
it
again
is
scalable
we
have,
we
have
over,
we
just
surpassed
20,000
participants
in
our
deferred
compensation
plan
when
you
consider
that
we
have
27,000
employees.
That's
that's
quite
a
feat
when
the
current
company
took
over
in
2009,
there
were
thirteen
thousand
participants
in
our
defined
contribution
plan.
C
So
now
we
have
over
20,000
and
we're
approaching
1
billion
dollars
in
assets,
so
people
are
participating
and
people
are
I,
think
benefiting
I.
Think
those
who
otherwise
don't
have
any
retirement
security
in
the
private
sector
would
certainly
benefit
by
being
able
to
participate
in
something
like
that.
Thank.
E
A
A
They
actually
years
ago,
signed
off
on
a
deferral,
a
pension
fund
contributions
when
the
city
had
some
significant
fiscal
challenges,
so
they
did
do
that
and
then,
during
the
course
of
the
sales
tax
conversation
we
were
able
through
some
negotiations,
the
municipal
unions
agreed
to
change
the
contributions
both
for
existing
and
new
employees,
so
they
were
clearly
a
part
of
the
quote-unquote
solution.
We're
not
there
yet,
but
I
do
want
to
put
on
a
record
that
the
employees
unions
did
to
their
leadership,
try
to
work
out
a
solution
to
us.
A
Well,
thank
you
for
that.
Let
the
members
we
voted
in
unanimously
for
the
proposal
and
we
had
a
current
council
member
carrying
the
torch
up
in
the
Harrisburg
for
so
yeah.
It's
good
idea.
Unfortunately,
we
weren't
successful,
but
we
move
forward
and
I'm
sure
we'll
come
up
with
something
thank
you
t
recognize
councilman
Heaney,
Thank.
J
You,
council
president,
in
I'm
sure,
with
our
new
colleague
and
former
chair
of
the
Philadelphia
Delphia
delegation,
it
was
part
of
those
conversations
still
has
a
lot
of
contacts,
friends
and
influence.
You
know
just
by
virtue
of
who
she
is
and
her
experience.
So
you
know
I
would
hope
that
she
continues
on
this
path
and
you
know
we'll
be
at
the
table
when
as
we
move
forward.
So
thank
you
for
for
what
you
have
done.
J
You
know,
council
again
we're
talking
about
an
international
investments
and
look
forward
to
you
know
the
data
that
you
provide
to
the
chair.
But
you
know
I'll
put
my
mic
type,
a
personality
one
and
you
know
when
I
think
of
international
I.
Just
can't
I
just
revert
back
to
verizon
and
it's
offshoring
its
workforce
overseas,
so
call
centers.
So
that's
a
I'll
get
that
point
in
there.
Okay,
now
back
on
not
back
on
pensions,
it
is
my
understanding
that
the
city
was
exempt
for
Mac
44
from
2009
and
told
January
first
of
this
year.
D
J
Exit
but
extension,
okay,
great
so
on
the
retiree
levels.
Could
you
either
tell
me
now
only
when
the
average
number
of
retirees
to
the
system
has
picked
up
per
year
over
the
course
of
the
last
five
years
and
how
many
retired
in
this
system
has
they
have
they
shed
or
could
you
just
provide
that
that
it
didn't
care?
If
you
don't
have
those
numbers.
C
Will
do
so
I
will
we
could
do
a
little
bit
of
both,
so
the
number
of
retirees
are
above
35
thousand
two
hundred
now
and
it's
been
roughly
into
34,000.
Well,
I
can
give
you
FY
12
30
4234
34,000
for
107,
30,
4661,
34,000,
827
and
now
thirty,
five
thousand
two
hundred
and
some.
So
it's
been
gradually
going
up
and
again
the
number
of
active
employees
currently
approximately
twenty-seven
thousand.
C
So
we
did
speaking
of
back
44,
we
had
to
do
a
study
of
the
pension
fund
for
444
directed
by
pyka,
which
has
sunset,
and
now
we
don't
have
to
do
that
any
longer.
But
part
of
the
survey
that
we
took
was
looking
at
other
jurisdictions
and
see
how
many
active
employees
they
had
to
retirees
and
one
of
the
things
we
have
here
is
we
have
twenty
7065
active
employees
35,000
some
retire
employees.
That's
about
a
point,
seven,
six
percent
of
active
to
retirees.
C
If
you
look
at
Boston,
for
example,
Boston
has
one
point:
four:
three
percent:
more
active
employees
and
retirees
Chicago,
1.13
percent,
more
active
employees
and
retirees
Houston,
1.37
Los
Angeles,
1.25,
Phoenix,
1.23,
New
Jersey,
one
as
a
state
1.5,
eight
percent
we're
backwards
right.
We
have
many
more
retirees,
we're,
what's
called
a
mature
pension
plan,
so
going
back
to
a
little
bit
of
what
councilman
o
was
talking
about,
adding
professionals
to
the
board.
Our
investment
returns
are
not
the
issue.
The
liabilities
are
the
issue.
C
Our
investment
returns
are
right
there
with
every
other
public
pension
plan
over
the
long
haul
over
the
last
year
or
so
they've
been
trailing.
But
I
think
you
know
that's
noble
retirees
we
have.
We
can
give
you
a
long
history
of
the
number
of
retirees
we
can
go
back
to
nineteen.
Ninety.
If
you
would
like
to
see
the
progression
of
retirees
to
recipients,
that'll.
J
C
We
read
that
we
did.
Another
analysis
will
be
glad
to
send
you,
which
is
which
is
as
the
mature
system,
what
what
effect
that
that
has
on
on
Philadelphia
and
it
just.
We
have
twenty
eight
point:
seven
percent
more
annuitants
people
receiving
pensions
than
active
employees,
that's
a
large,
that's
a
large
percentage,
and-
and
we
can
send
you
that
we
can
send
you
this
analysis,
which
puts
it
in
graph
form
and
chairs.
J
C
We
are
deferred
compensation,
people,
I
cmar,
see
they
do
seminars
at
every
single
Department
of
fact
they
do
to
shift
workers
at
the
airport.
They
go
at
two
or
three
in
the
morning
and
will
give
seminars
to
22
people
on
that
shift
as
they
either
get
on
or
get
off
of
their
shift.
They
go
to
the
FIP,
they
go
FOP,
they
go
to
the
firefighters,
dc33,
dc47
and
individual
departments.
C
We
also
incorporate
it
within
the
last
year
the
ability
to
sign
up
for
deferred
compensation
directly
on
the
website
without
having
to
submit
forms
without
having
to
do
anything.
You
can
also
change
your
contributions,
increase
or
decrease
directly
on
the
website,
and
we
think
that
that
has
had
a
good
effect.
In
addition,
the
board
the
board
has
come
up
with
strategies
with
deferred
comp
carrier
in
order
to
increase
participation
and
and
and
including
blast
emails
and
other
information.
So
I
think
that's
why
the
participation
level
has
gone
up
so
much
so.
C
J
J
F
D
F
I
guess
one
of
the
questions
I
moved
on
the
council.
Parker
raise
the
Casa
de
Maryland,
which
is
very
creative
and
in
the
conversation
I
wasn't
quite
sure.
If
you
were
suggesting
that
people
in
private
employment
and
will
they
be
the
ability
to
go
into
the
first
comp
or
actually
just
come
into
our
traditional
pension
defined
benefit
lane.
Okay,.
C
It's
not
yet
allowed
as
far
as
a
defined
benefit
plan,
and
it's
also
not
yet
allowed
on
the
local
level
municipal
level
only
allowed
at
the
state
level.
So
the
state
would
have
to
allow
this
to
happen
in
order
for
us
to
participate,
so
that
would
require
some
sort
of
coordination
with
the
state.
Okay,.
F
D
A
Councilman
we
do
have
a
representative
on
the
task
force.
They
will
contact
you
properly
as
soon
as
we
get
off
today
done
with
the
areas
today.
F
When
Parker
talked
about
this
I'm,
looking
at
a
lot
of
different
ideas
and
suggestions
and
we're
so
in
depth
in
the
budget
process,
this
here
on
this
spring,
probably
one
opportunity
have
a
real
conversation
into
the
fall.
That's
why
the
questions
regarding
the
time
of
the
task
force,
some
other
items,
I,
know,
counsel
and
Parker
also
had
the
resolution
discussing
other
pins
related
items.
So
I
just
want
to
get
some
perspective,
no
timing,
so
we
can
get
prepared
for
the
fall.
A
F
F
C
F
F
C
C
C
We
we
bench
more
depending
on
the
product.
So
if
it's,
if
it's
a
large
cat
product
the
index,
is
S&P
500
index
is
a
small
cap,
it's
the
russell
2000,
so
there's
various
indexes
depending
on
where
the
product
would
fit
within
our
portfolio,
so
there's
a
mid-cap
index,
a
small
cap
index
and
large
cap
index
and
international
index.
C
G
Brigham,
sir
I
just
don't
follow
up
on
some
of
the
other
questions.
The
three
rating
agencies
of
Standard,
&,
Poor's
and
Moody's
and
Fitch
all
rate.
The
pension
problem
for
Philadelphia
is
a
big
issue
for
us
to
make
sure
we
have
under
control.
They
also
talk
about
cash
reserves
by
the
way
in
our
budget,
which
I
know
we're
low
and
I
know
that
Rob
you're,
a
fan
of
getting
that
raise
and
I,
would
be
a
fan
of
that
tube
if
it's
possible,
but
on
the
pension
issue.