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From YouTube: Web3 vs Climate Change: Carbon Credits Go Digital with Gregory Landua of the Regen Network
Description
Join Alex Tapscott and Andrew Young as they decode the world of DeFi with special guest Gregory Landua, CEO and Co-Founder of the Regen Network. Listen in as they discuss Gregory’s discovery of Web3 as a potential solution for ecological and social regeneration, overcoming critiques surrounding blockchain energy consumption, addressing counterparty risk with tokenized assets, monitoring to ensure standards of on-chain credits, liquidity formations, and more!
The Regen Network is a climate finance platform incentivizing ecosystem regeneration to combat climate change. The platform aims to provide a sustainable solution to the problematic economic models that promote land degradation, destruction of ecosystems, and fuel climate change. Its Regen Marketplace enables businesses to buy, trade, and retire digital carbon and ecological credits that are backed by industry-leading climate science, while its Regen Registry allows for the development of innovative methodologies to verify ecological credits, including carbon and biodiversity. The Regen Network's impact has resulted in the retirement of 588,448 carbon credits, coverage of over 15 million hectares of land, the development of 40 innovative measurement methodologies, and created over 2 million new credits in 2023. Before founding the Regen Network, Gregory co-authored the ground-breaking Regenerative Enterprise book, which outlines pathways to achieve ecological and social regeneration through business. Additionally, Gregory co-founded Terra Genesis International and transformed it from a regenerative agricultural consultancy and design firm into a dominant leader in the regenerative movement.
Tune in to the 91st DeFi Decoded episode to hear Alex, Andrew, and Gregory discuss all things Web3 and the Regen Network. What is the Regen Network, and who is it for? How do users feel safe knowing that the carbon credits represent the claims they are backed by? Why is Gregory more focused on the velocity of exchange relating to demand rather than liquidity?
TIMESTAMPS
[0:00] Introduction
[2:55] Gregory’s Discovery of Web3
[7:36] Energy Consumption of Blockchains
[16:01] Counterparty Risk Solutions
[23:47] Monitoring Methodology and Implementation
[31:23] Liquidity Formation and Web3 Strategies
[35:27] Legacy Carbon Systems Compatibility and Adaptations
[43:42] Regen Network Learning Resources
[43:53] Conclusion
ABOUT DEFI DECODED PODCAST
Alex Tapscott, Andrew Young and guests break down the fundamentals of Decentralized Finance (DeFi) and how this cutting-edge technology enables individuals and institutions to transact, and create value, without the need for traditional financial intermediaries.
OTHER RECENT DEFI DECODED PODCASTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKhPY3PSEZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4wjRd72www
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgFfO_0L5o
SUBSCRIBE TO DEFI DECODED
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A
B
What
are
the
ways
that
we
can
actually
put
into
economic
systems
things
that
matter
to
us
not
just
from
a
financial
perspective,
but
as
a
society?
How
do
we
address
the
social,
material,
intellectual,
experiential
and
cultural
needs
of
of
humanity?
And
how
do
we
take
this
concept
of
D5
decentralized
finance
and
convert
it
or
evolve
it
to
this
concept
of
refi
re
regenerative,
Finance,
that's
a
term
that
is
caught
on
recently,
as
this
sector
of
web
3
has
grown
in
importance.
It's
something
that's
championed
by
several
individuals
in
the
space.
B
Many
people
within
the
ethereum
community
in
the
cosmos,
Community
Kevin,
owaki
who's.
The
founder
of
get
coin,
wrote
a
terrific
op-ed
about
this
towards
the
end
of
last
year,
laying
out
his
idea
and
building
on
that
is
our
guest
for
today,
Gregory
landua,
who
is
the
founder
and
co-founder
of
regen
Network,
so
regen
network
is
a
community
owned
and
operated
Eco
credit
registry
and
Marketplace.
It
is
designed
to
support
living
carbon
and
biodiversity
markets
and
others
with
verification
asset
issuance
and
Community
standards
and
governance.
B
Before
founding
regen
Network
Greg
co-wrote
Gregory,
co-wrote,
generative
Enterprise,
a
groundbreaking
book
outlining
Pathways
to
achieve
ecological
and
social
regeneration
through
business
and
co-founded,
and
grew
Terra,
Genesis
International
from
a
regenerative
agriculture,
consultancy
and
design
firm
into
a
leader
in
the
regenerative
movement.
So
we
want
to
talk
about
regenerative
finance
and
programming
values
into
money
and
into
assets.
I
can't
really
think
of
a
better
person
than
Gregory
to
join
us
on
the
show,
so
without
further
Ado.
Gregory
welcome
to
D5
decoded
awesome.
B
So
before
we
jumped
on
the
call,
we
had
a
brief
chat
about
your
background
and
as
I
described
in
the
introduction.
You
know.
You've
got
this
long
history
in
the
regenerative
movement
and
also
in
these
areas
of
what
I
would
call
like
social
Enterprise
or
environmental
Enterprise
and
I
would
just
love
to
understand
how
it
is
that
you
came
to
discover
blockchains
and
web
3
as
a
potential.
You
know
powerful,
toolkit
or
or
potential
solution
to
some
of
the
things
that
you've
long
addressed
in
your
professional
career.
C
Yeah
definitely
so
I
came
across
the
Bitcoin
white
paper,
pretty
much
right
when
it
was
published
or
starting
to
be
circulated
after
Satoshi
wrote
it
and
published
it
because
back
in
2007,
2008,
2009
I
was
very
interested
in
alternative.
The
alternative
currency
movement,
Bernard
leotards
work,
local
exchange
trading
system,
Mutual
Credit
Systems,
most
of
which
are
sort
of
a
form
of
digital
money.
But
at
that
stage
we're
not
leveraging
cryptographic,
consensus
or
proof
of
work,
let
alone
proof
of
stake,
as
has
evolved
later.
C
So
you
know,
I
was
just
really
interested
in
sort
of
a
novel
form
of
digital
money
and
kind
of
paying
attention
to
it,
and
you
know
excited
about
it
and
even
back
then,
the
sort
of
like
seeds,
of
kind
of
some
form
of
ecological
currency
or
by
a
regional
currency
were
kind
of
already
growing,
I.
Guess
in
my
mind
and
my
work
and
then
you
know
it
took
a
while
for
me
to
you,
know
lean
in
and
get
more
engaged.
C
B
C
It
wasn't
really
until
2017,
as
the
Ico
boom
really
started,
to
go
into
full
swing.
That
I
felt
that
the
you
know
they,
the
social
window,
like
the
the
Overton
window,
that
the
ability
for
enough
a
critical
mass
of
people
to
be
leaning
in
and
engaging
with
this
kind
of
reinvention
of
money
was
was
just
really.
C
So
the
really
amazing
experiments
and
they
play
really
I-
think
increasingly
important
roles
in
the
economy,
but
for
sort
of
my
passion
and
this
idea
of
bringing
living
carbon
and
living
Capital
into
a
representation
in
our
economy.
Neither
ethereum
nor
Bitcoin
really
feels
like
it
fits
the
bill,
and
so
it
wasn't
actually
until
a
little
bit
later
in
2017.
We,
when
the
cosmos
Ico
happened-
and
you
know
a
little
bit
preceding
that
when
the
cosmos
white
paper
was
at
that
I
felt
like
there
was
a
plausible
match
between
sort
of
the
blockchain
technology.
B
Well,
I
want
to
get
into
that
a
little
bit
just
because
you
know
2017,
looking
at
Bitcoin
and
ethereum
they're,
both
proof
of
work
systems
they're
both
using
a
lot
of
energy,
and
we
know
now
that
ethereum
has
made
the
move
last
September,
but
you
know
it's,
it
is
I,
can
imagine
looking
at
this.
Okay,
here's
a
new
technology
that
can
help.
You
know
that
allows
you
to
program
assets
and
you
know
clear
and
settle
transactions
peer-to-peer
and
that's
something.
B
That's
could
be
useful
for
lots
of
different
kinds
of
marketplaces,
including
potentially
you
know
the
market
for
carbon,
but
you
know
at
what
cost
I
mean
I.
You
know
you're
looking
at
like
trying
to
do
colored
coins
or
something
on
bitcoin
I
mean
the
Bitcoin
Network
uses
an
inordinate
amount
of
energy
and
I
think
that
that's
those
two
kinds
of
ideas
have
always
been
at
odds
and
I
think
that
for
a
lot
of
people
looking
from
the
outside
looking
in,
they
look
at
the
space
and
they
think
okay.
B
Well,
you
know
these
blockchains
I've
heard
they
use
a
lot
of
energy
and
you're
telling
me
that
somehow
they're
going
to
be
a
solution
to
a
bunch
of
you
know,
problems
that
exist
in
in
the
economy
as
it
relates
to
to
the
carbon
footprint
of
industry
and
enough
economic
activity.
So
you
know
it's
a
bit
of
I
think
for
a
lot
of
people.
B
B
C
C
B
C
Also,
because
of
our
perspective,
about
sort
of
this
idea
of
a
monolithic,
blockchain
architecture,
I
mean
from
even
from
back
in
the
day
we
were
like
this
isn't
really
going
to
work
for
the
type
of
data
demands.
Throughput
demands,
performance
and
governance
needs
that
a
state
machine,
a
blockchain
that
is
allowing
us
to
build
consensus
about
ecological
State
and
then
to
program
that
ecological
State
data
into
financial
and
monetary
flows.
C
At
least
at
that
point,
you
know
I
think
ethereum
has
come
a
long
way
and
there's
a
lot
of
convergence.
Interestingly
enough
between
Cosmos
and
ethereum,
and
increasingly
the
ethereum
communities
sort
of
like
bending
towards
modularity
and
composability
and
there's
you
know,
sort
of
like
app
roll-up
systems
and
all
these
very
cosmosy
ideas,
so
they're
sort
of
like.
C
But
we
were
very
much
that
that's
what
made
sense
us
from
first
principles
from
kind
of
a
computer
science
governance
data
architecture
approach,
the
cosmos
Vision
really
was-
was
much
closer
to
how
we
thought
these
systems
needed
to
be
built.
And
so
we
we
sort
of
from
day
one.
We
were.
You
know,
thinking
about
tenderment
and
thinking
about
then
later
thinking
about
the
cosmos
SDK
as
kind
of
the
base
structure
for
the
the
building
out
of
things
and
I.
Think
I
I
really
resonate
with
a
lot
of
what
Ethan
Buckman
talks
about.
C
C
It's
sort
of
like
it's
an
interface
that
one
person
runs
right
or
there's
one
sys
admin
and
then,
in
the
background
we
take
care
of
sort
of
the
legal
agreements
and
like
the
contracts
and
how
we
choose
to
administer
the
system
gets
is
all
sort
of
like
off.
Of
the
computer
right
and
up
this
leap
into
the
blockchain
world
is
this
leap
towards
social
Computing,
in
which
more
of
the
agreements
about
how
the
databases
run,
how
the
compute
is
being
run?
C
So
you
really
have
to
have
this
sort
of
public
record
approach.
This
community
consensus
approach
to
everything.
That's
being
you
know,
potentially
produced
and
traded
you,
it's
really
much
more
clunky
to
do
that
as
just
sort
of
like
sort
of
like
private
individual
citizens
engaging
and
we
can
get
it
there's
a
whole
nother
thing,
which
I
think
is
really
important
for
people
to
understand
in
terms
of
the
role
of
blockchains
in
in
this
you
know,
as
as
we're
moving
through
the
you
know,
farther
into
the
21st
century.
C
You
know
the
the
cost
to
commit
digital
fraud
right
to
to
generate
fraudulent
claims
is
getting
ever
lower
because
of
artificial
intelligence.
You
know
you
can
sort
of
deep
fake
things.
You
can
generate
spam
emails.
You
know
basically
for
free,
you
can
do
all
these
different
things.
What's
really
interesting.
C
Is
this
this
idea
of
a
social
compute
Network
that
has
sort
of
a
public-private
key
infrastructure
actually
provides
an
interesting
antidote
to
this
sort
of,
like
current
free-for-all
of
the
internet,
where
we
can
actually
build
distributed
identity
systems
we
can
build,
we
can
sort
of
guarantee
through
application
of
cryptography
digital
signatures
and
durability
of
the
record
of
provenance
of
data.
And,
again
that's
those
are
essential
pieces
building
blocks.
Who
is
saying
what
about
where?
Using
what
methodology
and
what
data
those
are
essential
building
blocks
for,
for
instance,
a
carbon
credit
right?
C
Without
that
information
being
easily
accessible,
durable
and
immutable
I,
essentially
like
unchangeable
uncorruptable,
we
should
say
the
market
really
is
a
hard
time.
Pricing,
the
accuracy
and
precision
of
a
claim
and
therefore
finding
a
price
for
carbon
credit.
And
you
see
the
tumult
in
the
carbon
markets
due
to
these
debates
and
challenges
around
how
accurate
and
how
real
carbon
credit
is
right.
D
But
obviously
one
of
the
big
challenges
with
sort
of
real
world
assets
being
tokenized
has
been
just
kind
of
I.
Guess
what
you
would
call
counterparty
risk.
We
actually
even
saw
it
with
uscc
over
the
last
month
where
it
sort
of
depegs,
because
the
custodian
of
these
underlying
US
Dollars
there
are
some
issues,
obviously
with
them
having
their
money
at
Silicon,
Valley,
Bank
and
all
these
other
Banks.
D
So
I'm
I
think
one
of
the
my
biggest
questions,
because
to
me
the
the
objective
of
of
this
is
is
very
clear,
but
I
guess
that
the
big
potential
obstacle
is
is
how
do
you
deal
with
that
sort
of
custodian
risk
right?
Because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
carbon
credits
are
tokenized,
but
they're
they're,
as
you
said,
they're
sort
of
held
somewhere
in
the
real
world,
and
you
guys
deal
with
all
of
that
sort
of
back
end
of
infrastructure,
which
is
you
know,
a
huge
benefit
to
the
user.
D
C
It's
fully
digitally
native
and
again
the
the
agreements
you
know
in
this
case
you
know
the
core
of
a
carbon
asset,
the
core
of
a
of
a
contract
related
to
carbon
is
about
present
and
future
land
use
agreements
right.
So
the
core
does
require
a
very
strong
I
guess
you
could
say
it's
sort
of
like
rule
of
law
and
respect
of
you
know
property.
C
Those
communities
may
just
promise
to
not
cut
down
their
Forest
right,
because
the
Amazon
is
essentially
the
heart
and
lungs
of
the
world,
so
the
whole
hydrological
cycle
and
the
cooling
effect
that
that
has
depends
on
this
giant
Ancient
Forest
in
the
Amazon.
You
know
that
Forest
is
40
million
years
old,
that's
being
stewarded
there.
It
is
a
key
role
to
play
in
our
biosphere
or
the
health
of
our
biosphere.
C
C
Instead
of
these
very
clunky
old
style
agreements,
where
we're
like
okay,
we're
making
a
30-year
easement
on
your
property
and
every
five
years,
somebody's
going
to
show
up
and
maybe
check
on
it-
and
it's
just
like
this-
really
slow
laggy
sort
of
resolution,
the
cost,
the
marginal
cost
to
actually
have
a
dynamic
agreement
and
basically
program
turn
carbon
credits
into
this
static,
sort
of
bureaucratic,
old
style
kind
of
assets
into
a
dynamic
asset
that
has
essentially
real-time
monitoring
of
the
specific
agreements
between
the
parties.
That's
now
that's
happening
presently,
right
and
where's.
C
This
interesting
I
will
say
like
on
region
Network.
You
have
this
interesting
scenario
for
anybody.
Who's
been
paying
attention,
we're
just
now,
building
a
bridge
for
the
nature,
carbon
ton,
which
is
an
asset
that
this
protocol
called
toucan
tokenized,
which
is
basically
tokenized
old,
Legacy
carbon
right.
So
it's
just
simply
tokenizing
the
old
way
that
things
happen
right
to
experiment
with
liquidity
and
some
transparency
benefits
and
some
other
things.
But
it
is
essentially
not
changing
the
fundamental
way
that
the
carbon
asset
is
created.
C
Then
we
have
the
second
generation
of
carbon
that
is
currently
on
region
as
well,
which
is
City
forest
credits,
which
is
like
a
new
registry
which
we
have
a
sort
of
like
two-way
agreement
with,
and
they
can
mint
their
assets
into
our
Marketplace
and
it's
it's
like
more
deeply
integrated
second
generation.
The
third
generation
of
carbon
assets
is
what
I'm
talking
about
where
you
have
these
digitally
native
blockchain,
Native,
Dynamic,
real-time,
monitoring
opportunities
where
the
there
is
no
off
chain
agreement
or
representation.
C
The
asset
itself
is
completely
a
blockchain
native
asset
and
the
agreements
about
how
that
came
to
be
are
encoded
into
the
metadata
they're
in
and
even
encoded
into
Dynamic.
You
know,
potentially
Dynamic
price
feeds
and
other
things,
and
so
that
third
generation,
which
is
really
what
region
network
is
excited
about,
is
a
community
and
and
r
d
public
benefit
Corp.
The
company
I'm
CEO
of
this
is
where
we've
been
headed
right.
This
is
just
now
really
for
the
first
time
in
the
in
the
history
of
humans.
C
A
B
What's
it
okay,
so
I
have
a
couple
of
thoughts
on
this,
so
number
one.
It's
thank
you
for
for
describing
the
way
it
works,
that
there
are
these
three
different
kinds
of
of
carbon
assets,
so
basically
like
you're,
a
Marketplace
of
sorts
where
other
people
who
have
created
some
form
of
a
digitized
carbon
credit
can
trade
and
retire
credits.
You
know
on
your
marketplace
right,
and
so
that's
that's
and
and
it's
one
where
you
don't
have
to
go
fully
on
chain
for
this
to
work.
B
B
Having
said
that,
even
in
the
last
category,
the
third
generation
you
don't
have
to
worry
about-
has
someone
else
done.
The
you
know
is
the
carbon
credit
itself
valid,
but
you
still
have
an
oracle
problem
of
sorts.
Don't
you
because
you're
not
a
problem
like
an
oracle
chat
challenge
which
is
okay
in
order
for
the
credit
itself
to
be
valid,
you
need
to
know
that
that
land
use
agreement
is
in
place.
B
You
need
to
know
that
you
know
it's
being
stewarded
in
a
certain
way,
and
so
there
is
a
data
feed
of
sorts
that
needs
to
go
into
this
digital
asset
right
so
like.
How
does
that?
How
does
that
come
into
play
when
there's
when
it's
when
there's
a
lot
of
when
I
guess
it's
a
monitoring,
question
right
like
it's,
you
have
to
monitor
a
situation.
I
mean
you
know
more
about
this
than
I
do.
But
you
know
how
is
this
you
know
chunk
of
the
Amazon
being
stewarded.
B
Is
it
being
done
in
a
way
that
meets
the
standards
of
our
on-chain
credit?
You
talk
about
that
process
like
let's,
let's
assume
for
a
second
that
number
one
and
two,
you
know
tokenizing
the
old
way
of
doing
things,
there's
a
good
starting
point
but
like
let's
get
to
the
end
point
and
talk
about
how
how
that
actually
works.
C
Sure
so,
let's
split
it
out
into
two
sections,
so
one
is,
as
you
very
accurately
describe,
there's
this
monitoring
question,
but
beneath
that
it's
really
important
to
also
address
the
methodological
question.
Okay,
how
are
we
monitoring
and
is
it?
Is
the
monitoring
approach
adequate
to
the
agreement
that
we're
making
between
people
yeah
exactly
and
that's
actually,
where
that's
that's
in
some
ways,
that's
the
more
complex
question
right.
C
So
so,
first,
let's
deal
with
that
and
then
let's
deal
with
then
sort
of
the
implementation
of
monitoring
and
how
that
works.
So
fundamentally
answering
the
question
of
how
we
monitor
in
order
to
decide
if
we're
meeting
an
agreement
between
people,
that's
a
social
negotiation
process
between
a
community
of
actors
who
are
trying
to
basically
say
like
come
to
consensus
with
one
another
about
whether
or
not
the
the
methodological
approach
is
adequate
for
a
transaction
to
be
based
on
right.
C
And
so
that's
where
you
know,
region
network
is
sort
of
a
governance
chain
right,
so
we're
using
the
state
machine
of
region
Network.
This
pub
public
proof
of
stake
blockchain
to
be
able
to
allow
the
functionality
of
communities
to
come
together
and
work
through
a
public
process
where
that
whole
process
of
the
decisions
and
compromises
and
agreements
that
are
made
about
a
methodological
approach
to
create
a
credit.
There's
like
a
public
record
and
a
public
governance
process
of
that.
C
That,
then,
is
the
reference
point
that
the
market
can
use
to
decide
whether
or
not
it
agrees
with
that
specific
approach.
Right
and
so
that's
a
leap,
that's
a
sort
of
leap
beyond
the
way
the
Legacy
system
works
in
which
there
is
really.
You
know
that
people
have
tried
to
do
good
public
process.
You
know
I'm,
like
people
do
good
public
process,
but
you
just
can't
until
the
rate
you
know
the
birth
of
the
public
blockchain,
it's
very
hard
to
encode.
C
All
of
that
in
a
way
that's
immutable
and
accessible
and
sort
of
like
baked
into
the
way
the
platform
works
right.
So,
in
order
to
get
a
credit
on
to
regen,
you
have
to
go
through
a
process
where
you're
sort
of
like
making
all
these
decisions
and
making
them
in
a
public
forum.
So
that
the
market
can
choose
whether
or
not
it's
confident
in
the
choices
that
have
been
made
at
the
methodological
level,
so
that's
number
one
the
number
two,
the
implementation
of
that
that
that
basically
dictates
a
a
monitoring
approach.
C
That's
one
of
the
key
questions,
that's
being
asked
and
answered
in
that
kind
of
process
right
in
the
registry
governance
process.
Okay,
so
then
you're
implementing
a
monitoring
approach.
Now
we
take
a
I
guess:
sort
of
a
trust
graph
approach
right
where
what
you're
aiming
to
do
again
is
to
have
a
durable
immutable
record
of
you
know
who
is
providing
monitoring
again
linked
to
what's
the
methodologies
being
followed?
C
What
are
the
approved
approaches,
data
sources
Etc,
so
you
can
basically
what
what
you're
doing
is
not
creating
some
sort
of
Ironclad
guarantee
that
the
data
is
perfect
because
that's
impossible
both
for
scientific
reasons
as
well
as
for
sort
of
like
cheating
reasons,
but
what
you're
doing
is
you're,
making
it
really
cheap
to
uncover
fraud,
yeah
right
and
really
expand
expensive
if
that
fraud
is
shown
right.
So
that's
that's
the
first
Foundation
here,
because
we
have
this
sort
of
like
again
this.
C
This
durable
immutable
record
of
who
is
saying
what
about
where,
using
what
kind
of
device,
what
kind
of
data,
what
kind
of
methodology
and
did
that
method
all?
Is
that
methodological
approach
on
the
approved
list
of
the
credit?
And
if
it
isn't,
you
can't
even
you
know,
mint
the
asset.
So,
furthermore,
people
can
people
can
encode
if
they
want
like
identity
like
who?
What
address
is
capable
of
providing
the
data
right?
C
So
you
get
all
these
choices
when
you're
setting
up
a
crediting
approach
that
can
gate
things,
I
think
it's
a
little
early
to
know
exactly,
what's
going
to
be
the
most
efficient
and
effective
way,
but
again
taking
a
step
back
from
an
architectural
perspective.
The
way
we're
approaching
this
is
from
a
trust,
graph
approach,
where
it's
like
what's
important,
is
we're
building
out
this
record
of
who's,
saying
what?
How
is
it
supported
and
then
you
can
basically
go
back
in
history
and
you
can
be
like.
C
Oh,
you
know
that
data
provider
or
that
approach
or
that
methodology
has
been
shown
to
not
work
or
those
people
cheated
and
that
basically
allows
the
market
to
be
incredibly
intelligent
and
to
drive
the
price
signal
where
it
needs
to
go,
which
is
act
towards
accuracy,
precision
and
real
world
impact
right.
So
you
don't
get
that
off
the
bat
you
don't
just
get
to
like.
We
can't
sprinkle
magic,
blockchain
fairy
dust
and
solve
all
of
the
monitoring
problems
right
it
just
it
just
serves
as
a
substrate
for
fair
dealing
and
calibration.
C
D
So
how
so,
with
all
these
things,
I
think
we
can
kind
of
assume
that
the
the
the
the
assets
will
become
sort
of.
Like
you
said
more,
the
infrastructure
will
become
better
and
better
over
time,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
most
important
thing
for
most
sort
of
financial
markets
is
liquidity,
so
is
there
I
mean
we've
talked
to
a
lot
of
sort
of
D5
founders
of
the
years
and
and
one
big
thing
they've
done-
is
sort
of
liquidity.
D
Mining,
obviously
kind
of
the
early
generations
of
liquidity
mining
were
a
little
naive
in
their
design,
but
I'm
just
curious
is
there?
How
are
you
thinking
about
liquidity
formation
and
are
there
any
sort
of
like
web3
native
strategies,
like
liquidity
mining,
that
you're
thinking
about
using
to
sort
of
help
with
that.
C
Yeah
so
well
so,
first
off
I'll
say
a
controversial
thing
which
is
I,
don't
think
liquidity
is
the
problem
and
I
think
people
are
wrong
about
their
fixation
on
liquidity
and
I'll
answer.
Yes,
there's
some
really
cool
things
happening
out
in
the
community,
related
to
liquid
stake
and
regen
steak
and
liquidity
like
carbon
liquidity,
pools
that
are
being
experimented
with,
because
some
people
disagree
with
me
and
think
that
liquidity
is
really
important.
I.
Personally,
don't
think
liquidity
is
as
important
as
people
think
I
think
it's
more
about
the
velocity
of
exchange.
C
Think
as
you
build
that
velocity,
then
we
can
create
sort
of
financial,
financialization
processes
off
of
that
velocity
of
exchange
and
movement.
And
then,
then
you
could
build
sort
of
liquidity
and
financial
instruments
and
maybe
securitize
things
and
do
indexes
and
other
cool
sort
of
D5
products
on
it.
But
the
the
foundation
here
really
has
to
do
with
the
supply
and
demand
and
sort
of
like
the
manufacturing
and
quotes
process
of
these.
C
These
primary
ecological
units
right
and
getting
them
where
they
need
to
go
and
liquidity
in
my
mind,
is,
is
a
little
bit
of
distraction
until
you
actually
have
built
out
the
the
system
and
sort
of
like
are
making
it
move.
Of
course
it's
also.
You
know,
you
know
you,
you
need
mechanisms
to
do
to
do
good
pricing
you
know,
and
and
liquidity
and
amms
can
help
that
and
their
second
generation,
amms
or
third
generation.
C
Now,
with
you,
know,
uniswap
V3
and
where
osmosis
is
going
with
sort
of
being
able
to
do
not
just
a
naive
liquidity
system,
but
for
people
to
basically
almost
put
like
bids
and
bids
and
sell
orders
into
the
liquidity
pool.
So
you
have
more
structured
liquidity
right,
I'm
excited
about
more
structured
liquidity
actually,
but
so
I'll
pause
there
and
see
if
you've
got
pushback
or
questions
or
you
know
how
that
lands.
B
Having
spent
my
career
in
financial
markets,
you
know
I
agree
with
Andrew
that
liquidity
is
very
important,
but
I
also
agree
with
you
Gregory
that
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
need
to
go
right
first
before
you're.
Even
thinking
about
that
that
challenge,
right
and
and
I-
and
that
leads
me
to
sort
of
my
next
question,
which
is
you
have
this
trust
graph
that
you
want
to
use
as
a
way
at
a
governance
process
to
validate
who
can
participate
in
the
nature
of
the
credits
and
so
forth?
B
But
there
are
already
Global
standards
set
by
governments
and
and,
and
you
know,
standards
bodies
around
carbon
credits
and
I'm.
Just
wondering
like.
Are
you
trying
to
do
it
differently?
Because
you
find
that
those
systems
are
flawed
or
are
you
trying
to
like
what
put
it
put
the
putting
the
question
another
way?
C
Well,
it's
a
bit
of
a
both
hand,
so
we're
sort
of
we
we
like
to
say
backwards,
compatible
and
forward
facing
so
okay.
So
we
have
this
bridge
to
toucan.
Toucan
has
tokenized
Legacy
carbon.
We
have
this
sort
of
two-way
registry
integration
with
City
forest
credits,
and
you
know
we'll
sort
of
progressively
build
out
tools
so
that
existing
registry
systems
and
existing
carbon
systems
can
simply
like
integrate
and
own
their
own
tokenization
tools,
essentially
right,
but
it's
really
important.
C
Actually,
the
the
hard
questions
that
need
to
be
asked
and
answered
at
a
registry
level
or
or
at
this
sort
of
like
governance
stand
governance
level
do
have
to
do
with.
How
are
you
programming
the
assets
and,
if
all
you're
doing
is
sort
of
naively
tokenizing
from
existing
Registries
you're,
not
really
taking
advantage
of
blockchain
at
all
you're,
just
going
straight
for
liquidity
right?
That's
really.
The
only
benefit
you
get
if
you're,
just
naively
tokenizing
from
an
existing
registry
system-
and
that's
a
as
you
said,
like
liquidity,
is
important.
C
It's
a
thing
you
get
sort
of
like
transparent
price,
Discovery
liquidity.
You
can
see
that
it's
it's
much
more
of
a
transparent,
rational
Market,
but
going
a
layer
deeper,
the
ability
for
a
community
of
people
to
come
to
consensus
about
how
and
what
they're
going
to
program
into
the
asset
monitoring
rules.
C
You
know
retirement
rules,
royalty
rules.
These
are
all
the
harder
sticky
questions
to
create
a
high
quality
carbon
credits
right
and
and
doing
that
natively
and
showing
how
that
can
be
done.
Natively
is
really
important
and
the
Legacy
carbon
markets
are
incredibly
slow
to
engage
with
something
novel
because
they're
always
in
this
rear
guard
battle
against
critics.
There's
like
this.
The
psychology
of
the
marketplace
is
really
important
to
understand.
C
The
the
Legacy
I
really
sympathize
with
this,
but
the
Legacy
Market
actors
have
always
been
getting
attacked
by
people
who
really
just
fundamentally
don't
believe
that
markets
have
any
place
whatsoever
in
doing
anything
good
in
the
world
and
starting
from
that
world
view.
There's
like
a
constant
attack
on
carbon
credits
like
this
is
just
green
washing.
This
is
just
a
license
to
pollute.
This
is
just
you
know
the
baseline's
wrong.
This
is
wrong.
That's
wrong!
C
It's
so
they're
in
a
constant
reactive,
defensive
nature
and
therefore
actually
like
waiting
in
and
engaging
it
from
sort
of
like
the
ground
up
to
be
like
hey.
This
is
how
this,
like
social
Computing
system,
can
allow
a
group
of
stakeholders
to
program
in
standards,
values
and
asset
Behavior,
so
that
you
can
get
exactly
what
you
want
as
a
community
out
of
your
carbon
asset.
C
That
is,
you
know,
with
all
of
the
fud
around
crypto
and
blockchain,
combining
with
the
rear
guard
action
that
carbon
actors
are
in
all
the
time
it's
just
kind
of
like
a
no-go
to
sort
of
like
Wade
in
and
just
support
the
build
out
for
a
legacy
org.
So
that
sort
of
gets
that
happens.
You
know
through
you,
know,
toucan
and
City
forest.
So
there's
like
ways
that
we're
trying
to
sort
of
show
and
engage
with
existing
Credit
Systems,
but
also
there's
sort
of
like
there's
a
huge
amount
of
hunger
for
novel
approaches.
B
C
The
sort
of
inherent
conservativism
of
an
industry-
that's
in
constant
defensive
mode
and
I-
think
it's
important
to
understand.
There
is
also
all
those
standards
were
written
in,
like
the
90s
right.
It's
2023,
we
have
literally,
we
have
real-time
satellite
information
that
refreshes
on
a
daily
and
weekly
basis
from
public
and
private
sources.
We
have
machine
learning.
We
have
you
know
that,
just
like
radically
shifts
how
efficient
we
can
make
statistical
representations
of
complex
ecological
science
outcomes.
C
C
Let's
call
it
with
artificial
intelligence
with
blockchain
technology
really
ushering
in
a
completely
new
paradigm
for
how
these
assets
are
generated,
and
so
so,
while
we're
excited
to
be
backwards,
compatible
and
like
create
these
Bridges
and
show
how
this
all
can
be
used
and
it's
open
source
and
it
can
be
sort
of
like
leveraged
freely,
whether
it's
on
region
Network
or
they.
This
is
the
beauty
of
like
a
cosmos
approach,
or
they
want
to
create
their
own
blockchain,
that
is
governed
by
a
Consortium
or
whatever
they're
comfortable.
C
A
C
All
of
the
benefits,
with
none
of
the
perceived
trade
trade-offs,
so
there's
that
reality
that
we're
sort
of
we've
been
carefully
stewarding,
there's
also
the
reality.
There's
a
huge
amount
of
appetite
amongst
communities
to
build
new
carbon
standards,
because
people
don't
like
the
existing
ones
and
so
servicing
that
sort
of,
like
latent
demand,
for
people
to
innovate
and
express
new
forms
of
you
know
of
asset
natural
asset
creation,
yeah
right
where
you
know,
biodiversity
credits
and
living
carbon
credits
and
Indigenous
owned
and
operated
crediting
facilities.
C
You
know
one
of
the
biggest
critiques
of
Legacy
carbon
markets
has
always
been
that
it
has
that
it's
sort
of
top
down
and
tends
to
impose
sort
of
a
colonial
imposition
on,
for
instance,
indigenous
people
or
smallholder
Farmers.
Instead
of
really
like
acknowledging
that
they're
actually
sort
of
like
in
the
driver's
seat
when
it
comes
to
producing
the
most
effective
ecological
assets.
So
what
does
it
look
like
to
have
them
be
fully
empowered
as
owner
operators
of
a
system?
That's
one
of
the
key
questions
that
region
network
is
really
asking
and
how
we're
developing
things.
B
Well,
I
think
that's
a
great
way
to
end
it
I
love
that
idea
of
being
backward
compatible
but
forward-looking,
and
also
the
idea
that,
for
a
lot
of
people,
ownership
is
essential
to
you
know,
being
a
stakeholder
right
and
there's
the
ownership
web
web.
3
is
the
thing
that
can
Empower
people
to
you
know
be
owners
of
you
know
new
Financial
applications
or
new
social
applications
or
new.
You
know
art,
collectives
or
potentially
new
systems
for
scoring
recording
and
retiring
carbon,
and
they
may
be.
B
C
B
On
on
Twitter,
I
would
encourage
people
to
to
please
follow
and
check
out
regen.network
while
we're
at
it.
That's
it
for
this
week's
D5
decoder
Gregory
again.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
time
and
generosity
and
for
your
great
insights
and
Andrew
great
to
see
you
too,
we
will
see
everybody
next
week
until
then
take
care.
A
The
information
contained
herein
does
not
constitute
an
offer
or
solicitation
by
anyone
in
the
United
States
or
in
any
other
jurisdiction
in
which
such
an
offer
or
solicitation
is
not
authorized
or
to
any
person
to
whom
it
is
unlawful.
To
make
such
an
offer
or
solicitation
prospective
investors
who
are
not.
Residents
in
Canada
should
contact
their
financial
advisor
to
determine
whether
security,
so
the
funds
may
be
lawfully
sold
in
their
jurisdiction.