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From YouTube: Monetizing BIODIVERSITY, Not Just Carbon w/ Sarah Baxendell | LEVEL UP AMERICA #9

Description

Today’s guest is Sarah Baxendell. She is Director of Ecosystem at Regen Network. Based in the US, Regen Network is a global marketplace for Earth's ecosystem assets, services, and data. Its infrastructure originates digital carbon assets, unlocking web3 regenerative finance. Before Regen Network, she designed and built the largest urban agriculture farm in the United States, was trained as a Living Systems Designer and Environmental Activist trained in Sustainable Design Entrepreneurship from the Fashion Institute of NY, and has done a wide range of community organizing. Sarah is a real renaissance human being. I was excited to dive in with her about her perspective on the U.S., and how Regen Network can help it level up.

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Why focus on “Eco Credits” and not just “Carbon Credits”? 🤔

Why does a background in finance supercharge your ability to be a community organizer?

What does blockchain have to do with planetary regeneration?

These are just a few of the questions we dive deep into in this 9th episode of LEVEL UP AMERICA.

Enjoy!

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TIMESTAMPS
00:42 Intro
02:12 How Sarah Became A Renaissance "Regen"
14:06 The difference between public perception of Occupy and Sarah's experience with it?
20:01 The Role of Anger and Outrage in Catalyzing Change
21:57 Sarah's experience creating the nation's largest urban farm
30:25 What problem Regen Network is trying hard to solve
34:41 How Sarah's unique background combining finance and activism paid off
39:15 What biodiversity and carbon have to do with each other and ecological regeneration
49:15 The role of government in advancing Regen's mission
53:08 Another company building foundational tech that gives Sarah hope in the future
56:28 What gives Sarah hope in America's future
58:41 Rapid Fire Round!

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CLICK HERE to connect with Gary and shape the future of this show 👉 https://forms.gle/43c3W9to4QgbESjf7

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FOLLOW Sarah on social media

➡️ https://twitter.com/erde_kette
➡️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahashleybaxendell
➡️ https://www.regen.network/

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FOLLOW Gary on social media

➡️ https://youtube.com/@gary_sheng
➡️ https://twitter.com/garysheng
➡️ https://www.garysheng.com

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SUBSCRIBE to the LEVEL UP AMERICA Podcast HERE:

➡️ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/level-up-america/id1643363400
➡️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7w0GAk93Xy2IGciPW11q6K

A

When you walk up to a forest and like the wind's blowing slowly, but not too.

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Fast and the shade is . shifting, as you walk through the trail, and you hear.

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Some birds and there's some wrestling down below,. All of that is biodiversity.

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We get stuck on a reductionist carbon framework because the financial.

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System needs an accounting mechanism., it wants carbon.. We need carbon as a way to hold ourselves accountable,, but it is one mechanism.

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Biodiversity is kind of like, the scientific table.

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With, like all the elements. carbon's like one of the elements., whereas biodiversity is when all the elements, dance, together.

B

Good morning,, fellow optimist., I cannot be more excited for today's guest, sarah birchdale.

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She is director of ecosystem at region network,, which is a global.

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Marketplace for earth's ecosystem,, assets,, services, and data.

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Its infrastructure originates digital carbon, assets,, unlocking.

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Web three, regenerative finance before region, network.

B

She designed and built the largest urban agriculture farm in the united states.

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Was trained as a living systems? Designer, an environmental activist, trained in.

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Sustainable design, entrepreneurship from the fashion institute of new york, and has.

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Done a wide range of community organizing.

B

Sarah is a real renaissance human being,, which is why I'm so excited.

B

To dive in to a ton of topics, today.

B

sarah,, welcome to level up america.

A

Thanks for having me., I'm excited to talk to you. gary,, one of my favorite people.. This is exciting.

B

Right back at you., so overall, I'm excited to dive. In with you about your perspective on the us and.

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How region network can help level it up.

B

and obviously, region network is so much more than just a technology platform.

B

Contained to a particular country., your really amazing, diverse background is focused on the us.

B

I know that you have a lot of experience, thinking about what.

B

It would take to level it up.. So there's a lot. I'm excited to talk to you about., but let me start by asking about your backstory.

B

So I would love to hear about a few experiences that made you who you are.

B

Today, aka someone. I would consider to be a visionary builder of america's future.

A

Yeah, so I have, at least on a,, on a personal level,, a different background.

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Than most americans, insofar as I grew up in germany as a child,, so I'm, uh,.

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A bi bilingual international american,, which I think definitely gives me a.

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Different perspective than other people., and so I think, with a lot of the work that I carry,, I do carry the question about.

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How is what I'm doing a scalable example of a global climate impact opportunity.

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That, that somebody could copy, somebody could learn from,. Somebody could engage,.

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What someone could participate within., so I think that theme has definitely led through my career,, but I'm.

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A person that did not start with climate impact, as my focus.

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I mean, my, my mid thirties, I went to business school and that was not exactly what they taught you there.

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and I,. I started out actually originally as a, a banker assistant.

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For the jp morgan, private bank., managing hedge funds in new york.

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and then the global finance crash kind of happened.

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And frankly, I got really bored,, which most people don't talk about, how finances.

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Is really interesting, sometimes,, but also really, really boring some other times.

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And I happen to be in new york.

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I was a corporate fashion planner for estee, lauder and macy's.

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I literally planned how fragrances and cosmetics moved across the globe,, which.

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Is just totally unrelated to this., but it was really a data analytics position.

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and I got a one sentence: email that said, radiohead was playing in.

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Downtown in the financial district. and I got on the train and I went downtown, something better to do..

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And I found myself in occupy wall street of all things.

A

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Got introduced to environmental direct action.

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I got introduced to environmental law, environmental policy, which really had.

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Led back to some personal experiences that I had during college, during.

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Hurricane san or hurricane katrina., when I was in college,, I went down and did katrina relief in biloxi,, mississippi.

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And walked out of there wondering what environmental law and environmental.

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Impact could look like,, but not really knowing like what to do with that.

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For myself,, it was more of a personal experience.

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ultimately, when I was in new york, ended up being a person with financial licenses.

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You know,, I had the series three, series 7 63,, all the fancy licenses, and I.

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Realized that I wanted to use my fantastic math skills to work on climate impact.

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And started a very slow, journey, frankly, of being trained as a permaculture.

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Designer working on urban impact solutions in the new york city, area.

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Going to upstate new york,, I did farming and eventually, for just personal.

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Reasons, I ended up in the city of pittsburgh,, which is where my family's from, and had the fantastic privilege of becoming a park planner for the city in.

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The neighborhoods where my grandparents were from on my father's side.

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And in that time period, I got to, work.

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Bringing together municipal infrastructure, planning, park, planning, community design.

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Processes, large scale, neighborhood and regional scale consensus, mechanisms,.

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State policy,, food, agriculture, systems, storm water design,. All these different.

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Things that really blended together this interesting,, the layers of of.

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Business, of finance,, of planning,, of design, of ecological impact of.

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Human governance, human relationship to place human love of ecosystem.

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You know, people don't,, you know,, they don't have an opinion about the.

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Park cause they don't go to the park., they have an opinion about the park, cause they love the park., it's a very simple human relationship.

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and then, ultimately, at a certain point, met some of the folks from redone,.

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Uh, because I have a relationship to 'em from massachusetts and.

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I ended up doing some of that work now in blockchain., so I,. I joke that a lot of my personal experiences became,, my professional.

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Experiences kind of acted like a spiral where every layer you kind of pick.

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Up a skill and somehow you end up a little bit further along and a little.

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Bit deeper in that complexity of asking yourself,, how can I, as a human from.

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Design and impact create systems and processes and empower other people to.

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Join the wave of climate impact solutions that we are constantly designing and.

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Redesigning and designing again every day, together with the hope to do something.

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In time before, you know,, we lose the opportunity to have a livable planner.

B

Beautiful. amazing., I didn't,, I didn't know that you started off with the, the finance track.

B

And that story about radiohead yeah.

B

Is, is amazing., it's random and it wasn't like intentional.

A

And I,, I think that's part of my journey- has been that lots of things.

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Have happened that weren't by design, that were by happenstance, that great.

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Design came outta,, you know what I mean?.

B

B

A

I think a lot of people pick that, like straight and narrow path and there's like the boxes that they check and they,, they miss the opportunity.

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To get pulled into the spiral. and I,, I think the complexity with yourself as a human, designing. Your.

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Experience in life really comes from, sometimes just allowing yourself.

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To get kind of pulled into that spiral of unexpected opportunities.

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And, you know,. I definitely advocate that people.

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Think beyond the straight and narrow,, because sometimes the most unique.

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Opportunities are right at the very edge.

B

Hmm., how did you self-describe your relationship to the planet when you.

B

Were doing just straight finance, stuff and data analytics stuff?.

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I think it was subtle: under, like, under many layers.

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You know, I, my first job I was. I worked in like the bakery at.

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Atkins farm market in south hammers mass,, which is where I grew up.

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Once I came back from germany,- and this is like a big family farm.

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Production, thing, very legacy., so I was around a lot of food systems,, but I don't think I thought about it.

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I was like in the seventh and eighth grade slinging apples slices at the bakery.

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It didn't have that narrative for me..

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I don't come from an agricultural family.

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Anything like that., I come from a family of engineers, actually., my mom's, a biology teacher., my father is a,, was a, an engineer.

A

So you kind of put them together in some ways and you do get permaculture.

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Accidentally . so,, but I think that the, the, the first emotive reaction. I really.

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Had,, where I realized,, I realized how, how challenging it would be for the rest of.

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Our lives was when I did katrina relief.

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and it was like you couldn't touch the water in the rivers.

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There were people living in fema trailers,, there was whole buildings.

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Gone and nothing but three steps: left.

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They had just whole hotels and had wiped out the faces,, a map,, and you.

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Could still see debris in the ocean, you know, a quarter mile out poking.

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Out of the water and the absolute pandemonium of that desci desci.

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Was very disturbing and I don't think that any human could have.

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Seen something that mass scale of destruction and not have been affected.

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And it was a very subtle linkage for me.

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I certainly, I went into finance,, I went into corporate fashion planning.

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And it wasn't really until that spark was sort of pulled up, and I was.

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Given a new opportunity,, you know, in, in new york at occupy to say,.

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How do I design into this problem?

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because really,, you know, people, think of occupy as a protest movement.?

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It certainly was. and I certainly participated in protests that what I learned to do there is I learned to design,. I learned to build graywater systems.

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I learned to, to plant things.. I learned compost systems. I joined community gardens.

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got actual permaculture design train,, which is a real design. Science.

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And it really, it pulled that feeling of dread into a feeling.

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Of possibility, with a toolkit.

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and for me that was,, that was the opening from there, becoming a.

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Designer made, designing into this problem solutions that something.

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That I could never return back from.

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cause. I knew it was the only thing I would ever design that would truly.

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Ever matter enough to justify my life force being fully dedicated to it.

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So it was a little abstract,. I guess.

B

Nice. so you, you like threw that occupy experience,. You realized.

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What your ultimate u-shaped hole basically is in the world.

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Yeah, and I just,, I met amazing permaculture designers that were in.

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There that were literally building solutions in the park and we're.

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Teaching workshops and we're.

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wiring up bicycle generator power for the media, and it was a tinkerers.

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Environment of small scale, urban, environmental solutions,- and we were a.

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Bunch of tinkerers building, solutions, examples and educating about them.

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We had a very different culture in that place., then the culture of that movement, and once I realized there was this.

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Whole world of environmental activists and community garden coordinators.

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And like direct action, environmental work- that is a long part of new york.

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City's activism, community history,, you know,, I felt like very at home in.

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Community of doers and community of solutionists and community of designers.

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And really followed, you know,, followed through in learning and amongst all of.

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These people, many of whom,, who had been working on environmental action issues in.

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The new york city area, for,, you know,, 30,, 40,, 50 years,, some of them at the time.

B

Yeah. I'm,, you know,, I'm sure it's so inspiring to meet people who have literally.

B

Dedicated their entire, like,, their entire lives to, to this kind of work.

A

Yeah. I mean, the, the gentleman who started the first community garden in new york.

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City lived under the bicycle repair shop, where one of my friends lived.

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And to think about meeting the very first person that took a vacant plot in.

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New york city, metro and said this could be a garden, and, and took that stance.

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In the sixties, to, to meet people like that,, you realize there have been threads.

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Of this narrative through all of time.- and we have this opportunity to learn.- we have this opportunity to continue that narrative and to carry it forth.

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And, and now we have the opportunity to teach that narrative and the tools of.

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That narrative, the tools of solutions designed to everybody, that's around.

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Us, that really feels compelled to do something, which to me, this narrative is.

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About what can we do because we may be the last generation that has the opportunity.

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To legitimately cause enough change. to make enough effect.

B

Oh, for sure., it feels like a decisive decade.

B

decisive,. You know, quarter century.

B

absolutely. mm-hmm.

B

, what, what,. What would you say is the difference between public perception of.

B

Occupy and your experience with it?.

A

Yeah., my experiences of occupy was that there were just as many lawyers and doctors.

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There, as there are in major universities.

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, there were professors,, there were teachers,, there were.

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Medical professionals, there were media professionals.

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There certainly was a very clear direct action protest movement,, but it was.

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Actually, incredibly well organized., there were trainings., there was a general assembly process for group decision, making.

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It looked like total chaos, and it was a beautiful, loud,, crescendo, colorful.

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Chaos, but it was the most spectacular example of human self organization. I've.

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Ever seen with an abstract, but clearly defined purpose, because 99% is like more.

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Like a banner than a five point, plan.

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And as that social organization process evolved into working groups, as working.

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Groups evolved into the spokes council of working groups,, which is the,, is.

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An iroquois decision making model of subtribes, and you got through.

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These basic environmental direct action tools into these very complex.

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Governance and decision making systems., I think, there's a lot to be learned,, particularly about how.

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New york's self-organized and what I think was remarkable about it.

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You take the occupation away,, you take some of these self-identification,.

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These location, things away., but when hurricane sandy with 11 feet of water, pinned down new york,.

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City,, the first group of people in canoes to the rockaways was occupy.

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The people helping the red cross to decentralize, distribute materials.

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From the depots out to where the people really were, were occupiers, because.

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We had the capacity to self-organize.

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We had this great infrastructure of human capital and we had developed.

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So many local relationships that we knew church theaters.

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We knew which towers old people lived, in, who needed medication, brought.

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Up when the waters were still there.

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There was a lot of running water up and down towers to old, ladies, that were.

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Done by these same humans and service to mass environmental catastrophe,.

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That had been brought to our doorstep., and so I think that movements are critical.

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And I think that as a, as a social mechanism, abroad, our perceptions.

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Of them that are negative, often come from a place of fear.

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Because they are acts of mass disruption on a social level.

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And, but they're also great opportunities for the development of different.

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Types of social relationships., and so if you go to new york and you interact with a lot of nonprofits and.

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Grow nyc and other like city funded environmental organizations,. If you.

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Look under the hood of who runs these amazing nonprofits and politicians.

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And,, you know, lobbyists and all these social programs,. A lot of those people.

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Came out of that movement and found a way to, to bring life to their own work.

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And to own layers of that work that came through them in that environment.

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And, and also through the,, you know, the collective direct action that we,.

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We had to do as a broader new york city community in resp in response.

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To hurricane sandy's, floodwaters.

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So water. water is like my disruption, theme., I think ,, I'm terrified of the ocean ,. If that isn't clear.

B

, I've twice now seen it just absolutely destroy our society.

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And it's coming for us.

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B

well it's,. I mean, it's very timely to talk about that, right?.

B

With what's happening in southern california.,.

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Yeah., which is where I live., I didn't get it too bad,, but we had some folks through just a lot of destruction.

B

Yeah. we gotta be ready.

A

Yeah. and you never know what it'll be. I'll be the wired fires next and the tornadoes after that, and food systems.

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Disruptions and,, you know,, there's a,, there's a lot of fragility to our life and.

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To our physical infrastructure,, our energy infrastructure,, our food infrastructure.

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And the lack of self-knowledge and the lack of self, like the autonomy.

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To keep oneself alive for six weeks.

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when you saw this, when covid happened and supply chains disrupted in store.

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Shelf lost toilet paper and people freaking panicked,. What, if that supplied.

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To name disruption and been much longer?, how many of us have seeds? how many of us know how to grow food??

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How many of us are in food growing environments??

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How many of us have local social connections?.

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There are a lot of fr,, particularly to this sort of western us, canada, culture.

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That in some areas of the country are very resilient and some areas of.

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The country are incredibly fragile.

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And you know,, you add the marginalization of our institutional colonial racism.

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On top of that, and lots of other shitty, shitty, shitty, shitty.

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You really have to start asking a question of what's like, the value of our society, and, and what,. What are we investing into and what are we.

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Educating around and, and what skill sets are really gonna, be important to a.

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Society that could look very different in a hundred years across the globe and.

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Might need to look different as well.

B

Can you talk about the role of anger and outrage in catalyzing, positive things and.

B

Are they always necessary,? Do you think?.

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I think each person's relationship with anger and outrage is very.

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Different and I think common cultural.

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I,, I don't think that change has to be catalyzed by some great disruption,.

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But I do think that there is like a, a breath of life that happens.

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And, and it doesn't have to be an angry breath of life., it can just be a, a sudden, deep awareness that really grows in.

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You and you feel compelled to act.

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And how you act is also,. You know, an an artful design.

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You know,, you can,, you can yell,, which is what a lot of people.

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Do in protest movements is the,, there's a lot of yelling.

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there's a lot of drums and crazy shit going on.

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And, and then there are people that are, are quiet about it., they write books,, they teach classes., and then there are people that are,, you know, really.

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Scientific and artistic about it. and they design whole cities that are fully sustainable and close loop.

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Everything and, you know, resource rich., and it really just depends on culture and personality and.

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I think it depends on privilege, too..

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You have a very different reaction to something if,. If you don't have certain.

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Types of maslow hierarchy of needs, met., and if you don't have certain types of intellectual space,, you know, there.

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Are very different cultural options and very different socioeconomic options.

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That people have and very different cultural histories that people have that.

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Have different forms of righteous rage., I think radical honesty and radical integrity and righteous.

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Rage are all really valuable for different people at different times.

B

Wow. beautifully put..

B

So I'm really fascinated a about your experience with the massive.

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Urban garden work you did.

B

It sounds like over time, and maybe like region network, is your current,. You know,.

B

Peak in terms of the,, the potential.

B

Impact, but like, it,. It feels like just every experience you took on more and.

B

More responsibility and that required more and more of your skills to be employed.

B

Can you talk about both that, like evolutionary process and how did.

B

You pull off the urban garden stuff that just seems so,, so challenging.

A

Yeah. I was in indiana,, which is a state. Everyone forgets, exists here at.

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Indiana as a real estate people. and I was just,, I was just working at sort of a generic university job and.

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I got the opportunity to be a part of the team that built the food studies.

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Certificate curriculum program for indian university of bloomington.

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And in the middle of that design process, with a couple of these professors,.

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You know,, I had this epiphany that I,. I wanted to build an example. And,.

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You know, so I,. I set this intention. I,. I started applying jobs back in pittsburgh, cause that's where my family was. and I kind of stumbled into this amazing opportunity. Where, you know, one of the.

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Questions they asked me in the interview is,, why do you wanna,? Why do you wanna.

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Be the planner for this part of town?, because I was technically the green space planner for 11 neighborhoods,, the city,.

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Which meant I had the parks,, the vacant land, and just sort of like anything else.

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Where something grew, which is kind of a random set of hillsides and other stuff.

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Pittsburgh's, like a city and a mountain.

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and,, you know, one of the questions I asked is,. Why do you want this job?

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and I,? I literally had the privilege of saying,, because this is where my grandparents grew up.

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and so hilltop urban farm is this reclamation story of 107 acres in.

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Pittsburgh, that was previously a federal housing authority, complex.

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So it was the projects, you know,, it's the sort of terrible term for that.

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And then they took it down.

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they took these buildings down,, they put them in the ground, and they.

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Cover them up and they put a fence up and they just left this place turned.

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Into a giant field for 30 years.,.

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And my grandfather had played in these fields before this.

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Housing complex was built., there were apple orchard and family farms there in the late 18 hundreds and early 19.

B

Hundreds before the housing act of 1945,, where really all of these, you know, major.

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Housing projects in the us were built. and they were,. They were originally built for soldiers coming home,, which isn't.

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That the houses for the, the us soldiers to return when liven and their families.

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And so my grandfather grew up literally five houses to the left of the gate.

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And so we spent a lot of time,, we spent,. I spent six and a half years.

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Starting with,, they handed me a completed feasibility study,, which.

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In a park planning process is.

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the first stage of building a master plan where you go and you talk to.

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The community, you ask what they want with this vacant or sort of.

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Dilapidated piece of environmental asset, and you collate that.

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And then you look at the land from a landscape perspective.

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And you say, what could be done?

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where, like,? Is this even possible??

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So I was handed this report and got to lead the architectural design process.

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Of the master plan,, where the buildings go,, whether the water infrastructure, go.

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And hilltop urban farm is, is the largestttt urban farm in the country.

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Containing an urban farm incubator for adults that are like learning to.

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Start their own farm businesses and need lots of land and education and.

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Equipment and water and fences and all the typical start of farm things.

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And then it has a children's farm,, which is just for the neighborhood's children.

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To learn about food and agriculture.

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., and then there is a production orchard with 252 fruit net treats,.

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And then a series of, you know, coolers and equipment, containers.

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And hoop houses and grow houses and all kinds of infrastructure.

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That we built on this space. and what was beautiful about that process was it was a real true design.

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Collaboration between the neighborhood,, the city's urban agriculture, community,.

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And the pittsburgh food policy council, the philanthropy institutions across.

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Pittsburgh, hines, and hillman, and major institutions, and the city of pittsburgh.

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Wanting to address a top five food desert.

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So I not only designed that place, I raised the capital to build that place.

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Until all three programs, primary physical infrastructure was in place.

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And then we spun it out into its own organization, got its own fancy.

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Little board as all nonprofits do, and eventually found someone.

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To take that project from me.

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because I, I was moving,, I was moving west for personal reasons. Finally.

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But it was this fantastic textured opportunity that thousands of.

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People helped to co-design and hundreds of different funders and.

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Contributors and volunteers all came and made hilltop urban farm.

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Something that serves not just these neighborhoods and not just the city.

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Of pittsburgh,, but it's the,, the largestttt at scale,, integrated urban.

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Farm example in the entire united states.

B

Super cool., it's super cool.

A

Everyone should visit in the summer. if they ever go to pittsburgh, go find hilltop urban farm..

A

It's really cool., I cry every time I go cuz it changes and there's like new farmers and.

A

You know,, I just,. I feel such privileged, that I was able to.

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Design something that will vastly outlive me in a city landscape.

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And that has the capacity to really impact, so many hundreds,, if not thousands,.

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Of people's lives, and understanding of local food systems just to,, you.

B

Know,, do you wanna get to rja network?.

B

A

Yeah. good old region ., but this is this- is really amazing.

B

What, what, what was like one example of something that was really.

B

Challenging uh, during that process?.

A

I think the most challenging thing on a personal level was that I was the.

A

Only staff, member, until the last three months when I finally hired someone to.

A

Run the programmatic aspects of, you know,, I worked with,, I was,. I worked in.

A

Another nonprofit,, so I had an executive director there that worked with me., but it was me..

A

It was me at every community, meeting. it,. It was me running landscape, architect, decisions..

A

It was me pulling rocks out of fields with interns like it was me.

A

So I,, I learned that great visions require great fortitude and an absolute complete.

A

And total decision that it would be so,, and I learned that I could make anything.

A

So,, because to make a place as big as that, real is no small feat.

A

And then I think the challenge is really,, you know,, how do you manage.

A

The needs of local community?.

A

How do you manage the needs of an entire city's desire for a farm of that scale?.

A

And there's a lot of. needs that an immediate community has for a piece of green space.

A

People in walking distance that are very different from the ambitious.

A

Goals of,, you know, a certain mayor or a city's climate action. Plan.

A

These are needs at very different scales and negotiating.

A

When you had to pick a priority,, whether it was the immediate community or it was.

A

The vision of the effect required a lot of nuance and like personal negotiation.,.

A

I also learned to drink a lot of gin with old. Ladies on their front, porch.

A

Like, old, ladies wanna talk about everything and you gotta. Let go drink.

A

Whatever they serve you on the porch., so I learned to hang out with all ladies,, which wasn't a skill I had.

A

You know, you gotta, learn to hang with the ladies.

B

A

Yeah, they're great.

B

So moving on to to region at work.

B

How would you concisely explain what societal needs region is.

B

Trying to tackle, and why, why,, why should fellow americans care?.

A

Yeah. region's north star is that we want to restore ecology and ecosystem function.

A

Of a global scale is very ambitious,, so we'll just admit that upfront.

A

But it's a necessary goal to be that ambitious because the,, I guess the sort.

A

Of hill, we're willing to die on as a mary band of technologists and ecologists.

A

Is that if there are no ecosystems,, no biodiversity,, no, naturally clean.

A

Water,, you know, no riparian buffers,. What the heck a kind of a planet.

A

Are we gonna be living on anyways. and so,? I'm not pretending that restoring all our ecosystems is gonna, be the only.

A

Solution for climate change,, but if I have to pick one, it's,, it's the one that.

A

Gives the most breath to my life and it's the one that I wanna make.

A

Sure is there for other generations., and so what we've built is an app chain,. It's an autonomous, blockchain.

A

With its own governance- and it really holds a couple of basic pieces.

A

Land stewards,, so your farmers,, your foresters,, your non-profit, nonprofits,.

A

Your city governments,, your states..

A

They can choose to restore a piece of land, choose to develop a scientific.

A

Methodology that defines that land change or rewards that land practice.

A

Like the, u s: d, a does with cover crop programs and other types of.

A

Things that do restore ecology.

A

And you can basically put those on the blockchain and say,. I've got a project doing this thing in this place.

A

Here it is. I'm following this science.

A

and look,, I have these outcomes and I, as the farmer are the forester.

A

I don't really need to keep my outcomes.. They are these environmental benefits.. There are other people, and we're talking kind of like global carbon accounting.

A

System is basic financial accounting..

A

Somebody over here is emitting too much, and somebody over here is doing a lot of good..

A

You can package up those benefits and offer them for sale in the market.

A

And really the financialization of these actions is what is going to bring.

A

New forms of capital into the hands of those that are actively managing land.

A

Restoration projects in the ground., and so I looked at what I did at hilltop urban farm and I said, wow,. This.

A

Philanthropy cycle,, it's challenging., there's a lot of grant writing, like a lot of relationship, management., there's only so much. I can do within that paradigm. So quickly.

A

And what if I can make a thousand hilltop room, farms?.

A

I've got this blueprint. We like,. We could literally make a bunch of these.

A

How would I fund that? because there aren't the funding sources for that everywhere.

A

If I work with this series of technology tools,- and I have the ability to issue.

A

Credits for environmental benefits.: I can bring new sources of income into the solutions that.

A

Will restore ecology faster., so this is about financializing. The relationship between right, ecological,.

A

Restorative action by developing technology that speeds that up.

A

So to me,, that's the core app chain thesis of what region network does.

A

I'm like, yeah,. We make carbon credits and water credits and biodiversity credits.

A

You want chris,, we got credits., we make credits. they're the best credits. like they are the best credits. microsoft butter credits,. They are amazing.

A

We do cool shit and allow innovation in the marketplace, because we're.

A

Offering opportunity for scientists to come up to the play and develop.

A

Something that makes sense for right, place,, right, ecological action,, right?.

A

Land management, action, right, cultural action,, right?, community decision making, process.

A

and top down registry systems,, blockchain or not, blockchain, don't offer that.

A

And blockchain offers governance., it offers consensus mechanism,. It offers standard governance,. It.

A

Offers transparency of exchange.

A

it's the only way we get real accounting.

A

as a public accounting and as someone with a finance degree,, we need real accounting.

B

I think, what's so wonderful about your background, is you combine a lot of these.

B

Skills that, like environmental activists, scientists, have, plus the finance side.

B

And I probably don't need to tell you that that's, at least it feels unique to me.

B

Can you and, and like,, I mean, again,, I'm sort of preaching the choir here,, but one without.

B

The other,, it just feels so lacking.

A

Yeah,, I mean,, I would call it a happy accident in many ways.

A

I don't know that I would like.

A

say that I woke up and was like,, I'm gonna,, I'm 17 years old and I'm gonna,.

A

I'm gonna marry finance in a college. and so not what happened.. So this is like sort of the like self-compassion story that I hope.

A

Young people remember when they like hear me saying: cool things.

A

They're like,, oh yeah,, she found her way there..

A

I was a business school grad who was six months ahead and was like, okay, cool.

A

I should probably get a finance degree cuz. I just got a hundred on the first class.

A

That seems like that's an easy, one., totally crush it. and then I,. But then I got outta business school and I was like,. What am I gonna? Do this business degree?, it's like,, there's a billion jobs in a billion places and you know,.

A

Like, am I gonna like any,, like what am I gonna do with this degree?

A

now it's like the most useful and useless degree of all time.

A

And it took me like eight years to find the spark.

A

By which I could stare to apply that.

A

and that was an,, I mean, it was an act of disruption,, but it was an act of grace.

A

It was an act of grace that I ran into these things that moved me and.

A

Then really found a way to weave them.

A

and what I've loved about my career is like what you're talking about, like the.

A

First time I really got to use my finance stuff was when I was helping people raise.

A

Money for their environmental impact projects, so they could actually implement.

A

A program or plant some trees in a place.

A

and then at hilltop, urban's farm was the first time I got to build a performer.

A

I a performer., that's just fun. and then for re,, you know,. I got brought on as a, a grant writer and I.

A

Was originally a director of finance., I was keeping money in house,. You know,, like my job, was numbers.

A

And then I moved into product. I, I moved into business,. I moved into all these pieces that I, I.

A

Had to do in all of my other jobs. and it's very easy for me to do., it's very easy for me, to, to,, to give breath to the importance of.

A

Something and to communicate it..

A

We don't have a lot of good communicators out there.

A

So I think that what we're moved by,, what we're called to do, and the skills.

A

We have, there's so many interesting ways to keep, like layering them in and.

A

Layering them in and trusting ourselves on that journey and trusting that.

A

What your spark is that drives you.

A

anybody can succeed with like the randomist skills and like they will,.

A

They will weave where they're needed., and, and so real spirit, and I think that's like a real,, a real privilege that I've had. and,, but I've had to learn to trust myself in that., like I wasn't always so, like, articulate about it or comfortable with it,.

A

And only recently, I'm not even bringing some of these layers back out, like in the last couple months. I've only started to remind people.

A

That I got here through occupy. cause for a long time. I had to bifurcate the pieces to be able to do the work. I was.

A

Doing at various junctures in my career.

B

. mm. yeah., it's beautiful to, to see, and, like you said,, it's like a privilege to be able to.

B

Weave all these different pieces together., like that's, really the dream.

A

It's honestly, I mean, our,. Our lives are worth living when we give great value.

A

To others is sort of my way of being.

A

At least I,, I'm like a person surrounded by plants and plant.

A

Pictures who's constantly being a plant dork and has the privilege of.

A

Extreme dorking, , you know, around., but I think being of service and, and being able to be of service like.

A

This is really just a spectacular honor, more than anything, else.

A

And so I just, I wake up with gratitude and joy for the work I do with.

A

Regen, the work I did in pittsburgh and all of the people that have had.

A

The privilege to learn from and.

A

you know,, I look forward to all the people that I'll get the help and teach and really guide on that, on that journey, who are just starting.

A

It cuz it's really gonna, take us all looking forward and looking back and.

A

Being a community of practitioners and designers and solutionists together.

A

To really build the foundations of the framework of society that we can.

A

Stand with and stand by and believe, in.

B

Absolutely., what does biodiversity and carbon have to do with each other and regeneration?.

A

Yeah,, so this is not a science take,. This is my take.

A

So when you walk up to a forest and like the wind's blowing slowly but not.

A

Too fast and the shade is shifting, as you walk through the trail, and you hear.

A

Some birds and there's some wrestling down below,. All of that is biodiversity.

A

Biodiversity is about the complex interactions of different species.

A

In the ecosystem,, your plants,, your animals,, your soil, biology,.

A

The, you know, microbes in the air..

A

All of these things are components of biodiversity.

A

and we get stuck on a reductionist carbon framework because the financial.

A

System needs an accounting mechanism., it wants carbon. and the story. We're telling,. When you look at drawdown and other things,, it's atmospheric carbon..

A

It's tons of metric, tons of co2 e., so we need carbon as a way to hold ourselves. Accountable,.

A

But it is one mechanism., so I think about like biodiversity is kind of like,. You know, the scientific.

A

Table with, like all the elements., this is like my analogy, carbon's, like one of the elements.

A

Whereas biodiversity is when all the elements, dance, together.

A

So really fighting for biodiversity through the language.

A

Of carbon, in my opinion.

B

Yep. and you're adding more kinds of credits so that the periodic.

B

Table is more filled, out.

A

Yeah, I mean, so in the world of region. We have never been.

A

Carbon reduction as like at all.

A

we've been ecological restorationists,, which is a totally different perspective.

A

So we've always looked at it and from like a real landscape, management,.

A

You look at a farm and you know, I'll use farm cuz. I spoke of it earlier.

A

You know,, you have carbon removal products from the orchard. We planted.

A

You have soil carbon credits from the two years of soil, biology, restoration.

A

Work we did before anyone farmed.

A

You have a lot of the sustainable and organic, uh, farming practices.

A

Which likely had their own.

A

environmental benefits.? You have the protection of the forest on the hillside and the protections of the legacy street trees for emissions reductions.

A

You have the fact that the entire landscape,, because of how we designed.

A

And planted, it holds water at the top of the hill that holds water out of the.

A

Monga ha river, and out of the combined sewage overflow that pittsburgh's dealing.

A

With under epa consent decree,, so you have water quality protection, credits.

A

The expanding forest canopy of the farm is, in fact an error.

A

Quality credit unto itself., it's also expanding the,, the city's, uh, shade tree canopy.

A

You start to dig into these things and you start to dig into the swes and the water.

A

Recycling systems and the water capture systems and the solar that we put into.

A

And there's dozens of credits, dozens of crediting types that you could.

A

Parcel out on a, on a place like that.

A

and then you could sell and that are producing real benefits. Every single year.

A

And there's a lot of different arguments across landscape, where you.

A

Can't just even do one carbon credit unless you're talking like a really big.

A

Single monotonous physical landscape.

A

When you look at someone's farm,, there's like,, there's the edge rows,.

A

There's the riparian buffer, there's like the wind, break,, there's the field.

A

You know, there's the forest edge. everything's, a piece of ecology and behaves and interacts differently.

A

Based on its ecological growth, state.

A

And so none of it is the same..

A

So there's just such great complexity that how could you only ever have one.

A

Type of credit- that's just not like all that ecologically logical, in my opinion.

A

We've always been a place. That's very, like even the, the carbon plus.

A

Grasslands credits we sold to microsoft had this like suite of co-benefits.

A

We were like, cool., we name it carbon,, but then we had this great debate.

A

It was funny for like six weeks of like,, how do we name it?.

A

Should it just be carbon?, but it's not just carbon, it's carbon plus. and it was this whole thing with co-benefits., and so nothing we've ever produced in region has been just a carbon.

A

Credit,- and I don't think anything ever really will be just a carbon.

A

Credit in the world of region., it's really about looking through the lens of a complexity and being willing to.

A

Pull it out and scientifically quantify each layer of complexity and.

A

Sort of fold that into these really rich, unique, scientifically sound,.

A

Data rich assets that really like do raise that standard bar way up beyond.

A

A lot of the standards of existing methodological frameworks right now.

B

I think region is such a brilliant way that tech, it's like,. It's like.

B

A great reminder that tech can turn a, almost like a ecological philosophy into something.

B

That's easier to follow., like the make a, make, make a, a point of view on, on how to think.

B

About ecology,, more easy to stick: to.

B

Does that make sense?.

A

Yeah,, I think,, I think technology when it's built and you can use it and you.

A

Can see it and it's very functional, make things easier and faster.

A

And I think that's what I would call the rails of the, of the region. Network.

A

That's what we're trying to build, is the rails that make that possible.

A

For anyone, anywhere, at any time.

A

I don't think that that ever takes away the extraordinary complexity.

A

Of explaining ecology, of explaining climate impact, of explaining carbon.

A

Markets and biodiversity markets.

A

A

arguments and communities of crypto and blockchain are,. You know, they're just,.

A

They're just trying to make a buck. there's a buck to be made at region. they'll play the game,, but they don't come for the same reasons.

A

And there aren't a lot of really good carbon markets and scientific.

A

Communities on the blockchain., so we're in this, like weird overlap, zone.

A

We do some of the most spectacular science with google, earth, mgen and planet labs.

A

And the? U s: d, a,, like our actual true science, is very, very good science.

A

And our blockchain tech is very, very extraordinary blockchain tech.

A

But communicating to all these people and having people realize the complexity.

A

Of the rails,, the logic behind the rails and the potential for the rails.

A

And people being able to see their work in that is really an evolution.

A

That we, we work through the challenges of that,. I think on a regular basis.

B

Yeah, I can,, I can see why it's so challenging and I I can also see why.

B

Your, your past lives, uh, prepare you to do something like this,, because there's.

B

So many different kinds of stakeholders- that,, you know,- you may need to, well,.

B

You,, you have to almost like, sell it in a different way because they have, they're.

B

Coming with different,, like life context, and, and like business goals, for example.

A

Yeah. not to mention different socioeconomic backgrounds and cultural backgrounds,.

A

Around the world and different legislation and,, and not even to.

A

Mention, you know, corporate carbon credit buyers that are, don't care at.

A

All about blockchain for the most part. they're just, they're, trying to understand the standards., and so there are just dozens and dozens of different communities to.

A

Communicate to at any moment in time.

A

and the challenge is that they're all important.

A

They all have a place, they're, all a necessary part of network effect.

A

And holding space for all of them requires finding pieces of every single.

A

One of them in yourself and really being able to completely switch, choosing to.

A

Switch the way you communicate things, to speak to their ability to receive.

A

And I,, I think the ability to tell a story in the way the other person can.

A

Receive it is a real art form in general., not like unique to our team or what we do on the blockchain or anybody really.

A

It's like that's a really hard skill to learn and be able to execute on the fly.

A

Cause sometimes you just don't know why somebody is like on your calendar,, like.

A

At all, until you open up the zoom and.

A

They start asking you questions and you realize what they're excited about and then you have to help 'em. and I think, there's great privilege in helping people arrive and there's.

A

A great help, privilege and there's great responsibility in helping them.

A

Through the complexity of creating a credit for their farm use case or their.

A

Land management practice and helping them choose credits that makes sense.

A

Or how be able to join that network as scientific feedback or peer review.

A

Like these are very complex topics that are very specific types of audiences.

A

With very high levels of skillsets also.

A

So speaking, to their,, like speaking to the scientists and speaking to the blockchain.

A

Developers or to highly specialized, super skilled groups of people that.

A

Are all actually working together,, even though they may never meet each other.

B

Incredible. so challenging,, but just so, so valuable.

B

I mean, some of the, the most important work to be done today. Is, is bri.

B

Bridging different communities, just,, I mean, coordination, work.

A

B

Speaking of a important stakeholder cop 27, and a lot of, uh,, what was.

B

Committed to about biodiversity makes me think a lot about government's.

B

Role in incentivizing eco credits., can you talk more about what you see there?.

A

Yeah, so for full transparency,, I've never been to a cop,, so I've.

A

Never negotiated the floors or participated in any of these processes.

A

But my personal opinion is that we need governments.

A

We need governments to establish standards.

A

We need governments to set goals., we need governments to provide definitions of what's important.

A

And there are a lot of governments that have really the potential to.

A

Be tipping points,, you know, for, against the outcome about brazil.

A

You talk about columbia,, you talk about peru,, you talk about these south.

A

American forests in particular, and the great wellspring of the world's.

A

Biodiversity that is held in these places, in ecuadorian rivers, and,.

A

You know, all across the continent.

A

and we lose any of these major ecosystems.

A

They're, you know,, they incentivize, you know, categorizing, and it.

A

Tears down, you know, million hectors or whatever so quickly.

A

Can that scale tip.

A

. and when I think about biodiversity and carbon, I,, I have to go back and think.

A

About colonialism and racism, because if we see ecology as the form of value.

A

On the planet,, the most ecologically rich places,- and I'm not talking about.

A

Oil under the ground, things that we're pulling out, I'm talking about just.

A

Leading things, how they are, and looking at biodiversity and ecosystem function.

A

Uh, big places in south america, for example, should be the.

A

Wealthiest countries in the world because they have the richest.

A

Biodiversity stores on the planet.

A

instead, we've subjugated them and stolen their resources. Historically.

A

., and so I hope that there's not just international nation state responsibility.

A

And you see a lot of real direct action on a policy level in europe.

A

And europe is always like really trying to push the dial.

A

But I, I,. I do hope that there is this value. Transition.

A

And I say this as a person with a finance background cuz sometimes.

A

People are like,. What is she saying?? I say this from finance reasons.

A

I believe that ecology should be valued on nation's date, balance sheets and.

A

Be a part of its gdp and be a part of its currency valuation and a part.

A

Of its power mechanisms in the world.

A

And that money and nature need to mold and ecology, carbon biodiversity.

A

If it doesn't go on the balance sheets of corporations,, it doesn't go on the balance sheets of nation states.. We don't shift that power, dynamic.

A

and I,. I do think that there have to be some global power shifts that come in the.

A

Next, a hundred years,, but we're talking about the evolution from a, like manifest.

A

Destiny, greed, expansion, capitalist mindset to one that is a protectionist and.

A

Restoration mindset and not as frankly, like a consciousness, raising request.

A

Of the globe that I think will be done and can only be done through finance.

A

That's my thesis for the year in two minutes.

B

I love that. yeah.. What's another company building foundational tech that gives.

B

You hope in the future?.

A

That's a tricky question.

A

I think the one, at least in web three,, that gives you this hope, because if.

A

You pick any like blockchain project, you're, like picking a tech corner.

A

If you pick any like web two tech project,, I feel like I'm,, I don't know,.

A

I'm just feel like I'm picking a balance sheet outcome and a revenue statement.

A

I'm more interested in stuff, like gitcoin frankly,, of like the public good.

A

Funding,, the activation of funding and the collective decision making mechanism.

A

I'm more interested in how, how participatory government governance.

A

Itself,, like the governance mechanism,, the discussion mechanism.

A

Alters financial and asia., and I think that a lot of the opportunity that we really, really.

A

Have is about building funds like financial capitalized funds, that.

A

Make investments, have programs that,, you know, start out with projects really.

A

Small and continue to invest in them and become these catalyzers really.

A

Like these incubator style programs.

A

but then,, but they start with these like gitcoin matches and.

A

It's like ground swelled up..

A

I I,. I look at how that funding flow could be developed and that, and just the.

A

Participatory governance mechanisms are what definitely get me the most excited.

A

I think most people's tech is not that interesting and not that well. Done.

A

I think most people's tech is lazy and easy.

A

if I'm gonna be even more direct.

B

I think so I think people are, are pretty narrowly thinking about.

B

Maximizing, you know, short term profit.

B

Uh, often literally directly scamming people,, so,, . yeah.

A

Or they're just throwing money at a bunch of projects to get them to come over.

A

Towards their brand and don't have the rails to offer them the benefits that they.

A

Actually need to succeed as companies, there's a lot of like intention. Mismatch.

A

And one of the things I've been keeping my eyes on,, I mean, gregory.

A

And I talked to rex like a week or two ago,, we talked about the fed averse.

A

You know,, I think, a good example, at least for, for refi is that 50 ish,. You.

A

Know, people, you know,, held by sort of the blockchain for climate vic, o wt.

A

Working group kind of came together. and one of the things you started to see forming is you started to see.

A

How do we create shared standards?? How do we have shared working groups?? How do we create mutually beneficial decisions rather than.

A

Like boundaries and lines, and, and caverns, and all these things.

A

And I think we're gonna see like a lot of alliance building across.

A

Ecosystems, because we're holding the same banner, we're just in different.

A

Tech spaces with it,, and we can't raise the banner without working together.

A

So I think the next two years are gonna, be about cooperation mechanisms and.

A

Consensus mechanisms, and the right kind of intelligent investment, partnerships.

B

Beautiful. love to see that coordination., what glimmers of hope in america would you like to see blossom.

B

Over this course of this decade?.

A

Yeah, I haven't really thought about that. One exactly.

A

I would like to see in the united states an expansion of the national park.

A

System and the wilderness designation areas on the federal level,, I think, is.

A

Maybe the one thing I want the most.

A

I have to like pick something I would like to see from the people.

A

A lot of really local food and park design and stormwater.

A

Implementation,, like really very local ecological change, decision, making.

A

And I think the spirit I would like our nation to have is like climate chaos, is,.

A

Climate disruption is climate opportunity.

A

And I want us to fill that with song and art and story and give.

A

A feeling of hope and a feeling of opportunity and a welcomeness that,.

A

The strangeness of the moment of time that we're in,, because I think over.

A

The next decade we have the great responsibility of inspiring the next.

A

Generation of leaders before,, like I go totally gray cuz, it's happening.

A

You know, it's like: how are we going to build mechanisms to train and.

A

Bring others into this worldview with us, us being folks leading the way.

A

Now, us working with leaders that have been on this path before us and.

A

Really creating space for climate joy.

A

As well as just,, you know, getting our, our hands, dirty.

A

So if anybody hasn't taken their shoes off and walked barefoot on.

A

The soil in a while,, I think, maybe like level one- is like go outside.

A

Open the window up in your, like level one, touch grass,.

B

Touch soil with your feet..

B

I love that advice.

B

All right. can we do a, a silly rapid fire round to wrap up?.

B

A

Let's do it. I'll get all ready to go.

B

Uh,, you seem like a very healthy person,, but let's start off with favorite american fast food, chain.

A

I don't need american fast food., I'm a child, grew in germany., I'm not eating any of that unless I'm stuck on a highway., so next.

B

Oh, that I'm actually,, I curious to hear all answer all these questions.

B

Favorite american tv show?.

A

Oh gosh. okay., so the one that gives gave breath to my soul this year was 1883.

A

What's that? the story of this family as they travel across the american expansion in their.

A

Cover wagon, and it was, poetry, from star.

A

It was amazing.

B

What network is it?.

A

Uh, paramount, I think. okay., it's like the, the yellowstone, but the, the first family.

A

Part of the yellowstone line. and I'm not yellowstone person,, but it was an incredible production.

A

You gotta see it.

B

Favorite american historical figure.

A

I am gonna say teddy roosevelt, because if it were not for teddy roosevelt,, we.

A

Would not have the american national park system because he's the one that.

A

Went out and met pinto in yellowstone and he would like bear hunt in his free.

A

Time and like wanted to save the birds in florida from all the ladies' hats.

A

And he was aggressive and he fought against a big conservative wave.

A

I once read like an 800 page book on him.

A

B

. love it. best american holiday.

A

I think holidays are stupid,, but if I have to, it's not a holiday.

A

I be halloween., it's a holiday.

B

I'm calling it a holiday.

A

I'm declaring a holiday., it's a holiday.

B

Yeah. what, what,. What did you dress up as or if, if at all?.

A

Uh,, I don't even remember. I've dressed up as dozens of things.. I think I mostly liked, I lived in like a neighborhood in high school,, so I.

A

Think I liked the sense of magic that you felt on halloween and that it didn't.

A

Really matter what you dressed up, as., you all got to be kind of like the dark side.

A

And it was like the one day that felt kind of like anti-religion by design,.

A

Which our whole society is very religion by design in the undercurrent.

A

And it just felt like,, I don't know, good to be bad.

A

Even if you were dressed as like a fairy.

B

Very would a fair way to explain: it.

B

favorite american sports league.

A

I don't do sports leagues,, although my brother's, a sports writer.

A

My favorite american sport to play is lacrosse, though.

A

Hand, talent is lacrosse.

B

Did you,? Did you play it?.

A

I did in high school. yeah, definitely.. I still have my sticks.

B

Do you are you, you're, pretty competitive?.

A

Yeah,, I would say: so.

A

yeah. only are certain things., I'm like the most laid back person ever, but like,. If we're going I'm game and when.

A

We're done I'm just gonna. Like hang out., I'm like,, I don't like worry about whether we want or lost.

A

Yeah. on the fight., like I'm, coming to play.

B

Uh, favorite american grocery store or maybe,. Maybe you.

B

Would say a farmer's market.

A

Yeah., I'm just gonna default to the farmer's market.

A

and do you know the name of your farmer?? If you don't, there is some amazing family,, probably not that.

A

Far from you, that is, spending their life, growing, your food.

A

And you should go meet them because they have a really cool story to.

A

Tell as well as produce to hand. you and grocery stores are like cold..

A

They have horrible, lighting, and they're like,. They take you forever to get across.

A

Like there's like miserable places to be like the farmer's market's fun.,.

A

You know what I'm saying?.

B

Love it. great endorsement.. All right. final question is most underrated. American city,.

B

Pittsburgh?, I'm just kidding.

A

No, but 2, 2, 2 cities- I will give you are in the midwest.

A

Cleveland is fun., it's filled with art,, it's filled with weirdos., the food is delicious.. I know that at one point the rivers were on fire,, like literally on fire.

A

In history,, but it was so much fun., the most fun I ever had was in cleveland,, which is really, really random..

A

And then pittsburgh is dark and rains a lot,, but is.

A

Oh, really, really cool tapestry and has the highest concentration of tree canopy.

A

Cover in the nation, more than seattle.

A

seattle just has a better marketing department and has fantastic food.

A

And agriculture and environmental impact activity all across the city.

A

Different forest preservation to children's farms.

A

I mean, the community is really creative and given a lot of design and decision.

A

Making agency from both the city government and the philanthropy community.

A

So some of the coolest stuff in food and ag and environmental impact.

A

Actually happens in pittsburgh. people., it's not new york,, it's not seattle,. It's pittsburgh.

B

Love it. I. I already know where I gotta visit next.

B

yeah. ., well, I'm,, I'm normally in chicago these days,. So it's not,. It's.

B

Not even that far, so, oh, yeah.

A

That's like five hours or something. yeah. yeah. cool.

B

Well, sarah,, I so deeply admire you and, and respect your,. The integrity.

B

And passion with which you operate, in.

B

I loved, I loved that.

B

It seems like there's such a bright future head for region, network.

B

I love the ambitiousness of, uh,, the mission and, you know,. This is why I, I.

B

Consider you to be, uh, such a superhero., and, and, and I hope, that, and I'll definitely send this re. Recording.

B

Out to, to anyone that's,, that's trying to do anything like what.

B

You've done and in your many lives. think your, your story's really inspiring.

A

Thank you. and, and thank you for having me gary..

A

I mean, we met for the, for the world, that's listening when this plays.

A

We met at refi summit and you were by far one of the most interesting.

A

People that I met and I was like, hold up in the corner, like, chilling.

A

With you and other people, and I'm just excited to see what you're doing now and what you're gonna do, next.

A

And it makes me faith when there are people in the next generation that are.

A

Creating and defining and innovating and then coming into the fold.

A

So I just wanna congratulate you, for, for being on your way and being.

A

Brave cuz: it's not easy! To, to step out and,, you know, start waving. Your,.

A

Your freak flag a little bit and the name is something you believe in.

A

It takes a while to get used to how feels to be out there and win leading the way.

B

Oh yeah, absolutely.

B

and you know, my,, my dream is really just to, is for myself and.

B

Then, for more and more people to be able to weave, to weave like the different weird parts of themselves, into, in, into what that they do.

B

And in, in a good way,, be able to pour all these different kind of aspects.

B

Of themselves, in, in, into their work.

B

Well, thanks so much again and have a great rest of your week.

A

Yeah, thanks so much.

A

B

Thank you so much for tuning in..

B

I really appreciate it.. If you enjoyed that video,, you got value out of it..

B

Please give this video a like hit that subscribe. Button, click that notification.

B

Bell,, so we can get this in front of more awesome. People like yourself.