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From YouTube: Historic Landmarks Commission Meeting - August 1, 2019
Description
Historic Landmarks Commission Meeting - August 1, 2019
A
To
the
613
East
first
South,
two
commissioners
attended
that
others
have
visited
on
their
own
and
we
had
a
nice
meal
and
no
Commission
business
was
conducted
in
that
meeting.
You
I
don't
have
anything
report
as
the
chair
other
than
we
would
like
to
welcome
a
new
member
Rocio,
Thoris
Mora.
Welcome
to
the
commission
I
look
forward
to
your
participation.
Thank.
C
A
B
A
B
A
F
Kenton
I
was
Oh.
Would
it
be
possible
for
me
to
ask
one
question
of
staff
before
we
move
into
the
agenda
items?
It's
real
sure.
Thank
you.
So
I've
been
out
of
town
for
over
a
month,
but
I
was
home.
Doing
my
normal
jog
and
the
Covey
apartments,
which
are
on
the
corner
of
1st
Avenue
and
a
are
gone
they're
completely
gone
and
I
was
very
surprised
that
that
hadn't
come
before
the
Commission
and
I
was
wondering
you
might
know
offhand
or
if,
if
you
have
a
chance.
C
C
D
My
understanding
is
very
different
is
that
the
roof
drain
was
not
cleared
on
the
back
of
the
building,
the
back
of
the
parking
structure
and,
as
a
result,
during
heavy
spring
rains
and
runoff
that
part
of
the
roof
got
overloaded
and
only
one
corner
of
the
building
collapsed.
Somehow
the
were
issued
a
demolition
permit
for
demolition
of
the
entire
building,
when,
in
fact,
only
part
of
the
building
was
at
risk
kind
of.
F
C
D
G
So
my
comments
know
I'm
Cindy,
Cromer
still
and
I'm
perennial
chronic
won't
go
away.
My
comment
tonight
he
is
a
first
installment
on
what
is
going
to
be
an
extended
piece
of
research.
How
do
we
come
to
the
conclusion
that
new
construction
and
historic
communities
needs
to
be
a
product
of
its
own
time?
How
did
the
concept
attain
the
level
of
a
standard
with
the
Department
of
Interior
I
thought
about
this
issue?
G
A
great
deal
in
the
last
12
years
since
I
removed
editions
from
the
home
of
Frederick
Albert
Hale
on
600
East
I'm
mourned
the
disappearance
of
the
earlier
versions
of
the
structure
concluded
that
Frederick
Hale
did
his
better
work
on
other
people's
properties
and
removed
the
additions
that
were
products
of
their
own
time.
Only
after
I
did
that
and
also
remove
the
paint
on
the
masonry.
Could
anyone
see
merit
in
the
structure
clear?
The
modifications
were
products
on
their
own
time,
but
they
were
getting
in
the
way
of
any
appreciation
of
the
structure.
G
In
the
present
time,
I
did
not
feel
the
slightest
but
guilty
about
demolishing
the
work
of
Frederick
Hale.
He
had
used
his
home
as
a
guinea
pig
and
some
of
the
experiments
failed
miserably.
It
wasn't,
however,
until
the
proposal
from
public
utilities
to
pay
it
place
a
product
of
its
own
time
in
City
Creek
Park
that
I
asked
what's
the
source
of
this
standard,
why
does
it
carry
the
weight
of
a
commandment
apparently
the
basis
for
the
standard?
G
Goes
it
back
at
least
the
19th
century
in
the
Society
for
the
preservation
of
ancient
buildings,
as
it
turns
out,
the
Cathedral
of
notre-dame
was
a
victim
of
excessively
jealous
renovation,
fast
forward
to
the
venice
charter
of
1964.
When
I
was
14
when
the
prominent
architects
opined
that
new
buildings
should
be
a
contemporary
stamp.
Typically
in
this
country,
the
pendulum
swings
widely.
We
appear
to
have
gone
from
assembling
historic
parts
in
the
development
of
Tralee
square
and
calling
that
preservation
to
abandon
the
materials
and
character
approximate
structures
in
creating
new
ones.
G
I
suspect
that
we
are
stuck
at
one
end
of
the
swinging
pendulum,
because
that
is
our
pattern
as
a
culture.
It
is
the
American
Way
getting
stuck
while
I'm
digging.
My
focus
will
be
on
the
timeless
landscape
at
4th
Avenue
and
Canyon
Road,
with
its
use
of
materials
that
the
city
has
been
investing
in
for
a
hundred
and
seven
years.
It
will
take
some
compelling
findings
from
my
research
to
justify
a
radical
change
in
materials
used
consistently
there
or
the
use
of
a
design
associated
with
a
tightly
restricted
period
of
time.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
H
H
H
So
just
for
a
very
brief
background
on
this,
in
December
2017
HLC
approves
a
new
construction
project.
There
was
one
condition:
the
Commission
requested
that
the
applicant
design
a
street
facing
entrance
that
addressed
the
street
in
a
more
meaningful
way
and
then
in
January
2018
Planning
Commission
approved
plan
development,
a
petition
associated
with
this
project.
So
there
was,
they
created
lots
of
thought,
Street
frontage,
two
setbacks
were
reduced
and
there
was
also
a
reduction
in
a
landscape
buffer.
H
As
part
of
that
approval
in
February
2018
staff
issued
the
CoA
after
working
out
the
front
entrance
details,
the
building
permit
was
issued
in
October
of
2018,
and
then
it
was
this
past
June
that
the
planner
who
actually
worked
on
the
project
notice,
the
structure
wasn't
being
built
as
it
was
approved
and
contacted
the
applicant
directly,
and
she
then
realized
that
ownership
of
the
property
and
the
developer
working
on
the
project
had
changed.
Since
the
original
approval
was
issued.
H
So
to
try
to
simplify
the
presentation.
I
am
just
going
to
discuss
each
elevation
individually,
one
at
a
time.
So
this
slide
shows
the
approved
front
facade
to
the
left
and
the
as-built
front
facade
to
the
right.
You
can
see
the
two
rows
of
windows
on
the
left
have
changed
in
configuration
and
dimension
from
one
large
opening,
with
a
tripartite
arrangement
to
for
smaller,
fixed
casement
windows.
All
of
the
windows
have
changed
from
the
approved
fiberglass
to
vinyl
material
and
the
sliding
glass
doors
that
are
meant
to
access.
H
The
second-level
balcony
have
changed
to
fiberglass
French
doors
with
the
transom
above.
This
was
originally
approved
as
a
glass
slider
and
then
the
front
doorway
on
the
ground
level,
which
was
the
point
of
discussion
at
the
first
meeting,
was
ultimately
approved.
As
a
cherry
wood
door
was
full
height,
side,
lights
and
I.
H
Don't
have
an
image
of
that
on
its
in
the
staff
report,
but
the
as
built
show
what
is
what
was
constructed,
but
the
applicants
have
suggested
using
a
mahogany
wood
door
which
is
shown
at
the
bottom
right
of
this
slide
and
that
would
be
centered
on
that
building
wall
and
would
replace
both
the
door
and
the
side
window.
That's
shown
on
the
as
bolts.
H
Both
the
front
door
and
balcony
doors
are
slightly
shorter
than
the
doors
that
were
approved.
The
applicants
have
indicated
that
there's
been
each
back
to
above
those
door
areas,
so
they
wouldn't
be
able
to
increase
the
height
of
the
doors
without
reconfiguring
that
system.
So
they
are
six
feet.
Eight
inches
instead
of
nine
feet
and
nine
feet
is
the
full
height
of
the
floor.
So
the
doors
were
approved
to
be
as
tall
as
the
floor.
H
H
So
this
might
help
seeing
what's
been
constructed.
This
is
the
front
facade
the
level
of
completion
so
far,
and
then
here's
just
a
further
out
photo
and
I
did
throw
in
it's
kind
of
hard
to
see
the
streetscape.
Drawing
from
this
is
from
the
first
set
of
plans
that
were
approved,
but
you
can
kind
of
see
the
the
scale
of
the
structure
in
comparison
to
the
rest
of
the
block
face.
H
So
I'll
move
on
to
the
East
elevation
again
the
yeah,
the
top
is
what
was
approved
in
the
bottom
shows
the
as-built.
So
again,
all
windows
were
changed
in
number
configuration
dimension
and
they
are
all
vinyl
instead
of
fiberglass.
On
the
second
level,
the
balconies
are
accessed
by
the
same
south-facing
fiberglass
French
door
with
transom
that
we
just
saw
in
that
front
facade.
So
you
actually
can't
see
those
doors,
but
they
are
facing
4
units
2
&
3,
towards
the
back.
There
is
that
same
French
door
with
transom
the
3
third
level.
H
Balconies
are
accessed
by
a
vinyl
door,
which
was
approved
as
a
glass
slider
originally
and
last.
The
applicant
has
proposed
to
use
the
mahogany
wood
door
shown
in
the
corner
of
the
slide
for
the
front
doors
of
units
2,
&
3,
so
the
doors
shown
on
the
ground
level
towards
the
back
do
function
as
the
front
doors
to
those
units
they're
also
proposing
to
change
the
approved
glass
panel
garage
doors
to
steel
panel.
H
So
again,
here
the
top
is
the
approved
version.
The
bottom
is
the
as-built.
It's
a
similar
situation
with
all
the
windows
on
this
facade.
There's
a
totally
different
fenestration
pattern
on
that,
as
built,
the
three
doors
shown
on
the
ground
level
function
as
the
rear
doors
for
each
unit.
They
are
they've
been
installed
as
fiberglass,
rather
than
the
cherry
wood
that
was
approved.
H
Staffs
recommendation
on
this
facade
is
to
deny
the
modifications
to
all
the
windows
and
doors,
with
the
exception
of
the
three
fiberglass
doors,
including
the
windows,
to
the
left
of
the
doors
and
again
they're.
Not
those
in
sense
in
sets
aren't
as
recessed
as
on
the
other
side,
but
it
is
recessed.
There's
also
only
a
five
foot
setback
on
this
side
and
there,
the
area
with
the
doors
just
isn't
highly
visible
from
the
street
and
here's
the
best
picture.
We
could
get
of
this
facade.
H
To
see
you
and
then
last,
this
is
the
North
elevation,
which
is
the
rear.
The
structure,
it's
the
facade,
that's
been
impacted,
the
least,
with
three
windows
that
are
generally
in
the
approved
location,
but
our
different
dimensions
and
materials.
These
are
also
vinyl
due
to
the
low
visibility
of
this
elevation,
staffs,
recommending
to
approve
all
modifications
that
have
been
made
to
this
side.
H
H
And
this
project
was
reviewed
and
approved
under
our
old
new
construction
standards
as
December
27
2017,
which
the
planner
analyzed
again
in
the
staff
report
for
this
meeting.
In
relation
to
the
changes
that
have
been
made,
she
found
that
the
structure
no
longer
meets
all
the
standards
specifically
1d
scale
of
a
structure
to
a
proportion
of
openings
to
be
rid
of
solids
to
voids
and
facades
in
2d
relationship
of
materials.
H
H
H
H
H
I
H
A
B
J
You
bet
you
I'm
Tate
seamer,
it's
my
name
I'm
one
of
the
two
owners
of
the
project.
Thank
you,
you
betcha,
okay,
so
I
just
want
to
share
with
you
kind
of
obviously
there's
some
I'm
sure
you
have
some
huge
questions
about
how
we
got
to
this
point
and
will
share
with
you
from
our
perspective.
How
we're
there
we'll
also
share
with
you
why
we
think
the
building
that
we're
proposing
with
the
tweaks
that
we're
proposing
is
not
only
beautiful
but
also
is
reflective
of
some
of
the
surrounding
architecture
and
and
the
historic
district
standards.
J
I
got
to
tell
you
for
me
well,
first
of
all
to
say
that
I'm
not
nervous,
wouldn't
be
truthful,
and
it
part
of
that
is
because
I
feel
like
I'm
tasked
with
talking
about
the
nuances
of
music
with
Mozart
or
whoever
I
truly
I've,
never
heard
the
term
fenestration
before
three
weeks
ago,
and
so
to
put
this
together
for
you
guys
was,
it
was
pretty
daunting.
We've
done
the
best
that
we
can
and
I'll
just
get
into
it.
So
does
that
work
yeah.
So
this
is.
J
B
J
J
J
What
we
felt
like
was
the
mentorship
of
this
particular
developer
and
the
advice
of
the
developer
and
and
hired
the
Builder
that
was
recommended
being
green
at
both
the
due
diligence
and
the
underwriting.
Like
I
said
we
were
relying
on
on
a
couple
of
other
people
to
to
lead
us
in
the
right
direction,
and
we
just
had
a
have
had
since
the
very
beginning,
including
digging
for
the
foundation
where
they
were
digging
for
footers,
and
they
they
found
an
old
foundation
about
20
feet
down.
J
So
you
can
see
there
at
the
end
that
we
ended
up
terminating
the
contract
in
February
and
we're
currently
in
lawsuits
both
ways
we're
suing
them
for
breach
of
contract,
because,
amongst
other
things,
if
you
look
at
the
second-to-last
item,
there
are
many
changes,
obviously,
and
the
the
building
of
the
building
that
were
that
weren't
in
the
plans.
Well,
we
had
discussions
particularly
about
the
windows
of
possible
changes
to
save
money.
J
J
When
we
discovered
this,
it
was
obviously
problematic
for
us,
and
you
know
confusing
for
sure.
However,
we
we
did
not
know
the
implications
of
the
historic
Commission's
requirements
and
the
approval.
In
fact,
we
were
never
provided
the
the
the
notes,
the
staff
notes,
I
guess
from
your
meetings
that
led
up
to
the
approval,
so
all
of
the
required
specs
and
everything
we
just
didn't
know
about
until
Lauren
gave
them
to
us
about
thirty
days
ago.
In
no
way
am
I
trying
to
portray
us
as
as
victims
here,
obviously
we're
the
developers
were
ultimately
responsible.
J
We
immediately
called
Lauren
and
obviously
realized
that
we
were
in
a
pretty
serious
situation
and
we've
we've
since
spent
hours
in
in
personal
meetings
and
phone
meetings
and
emails
with
one
Ashley,
Molly
Karl
leaf
met
me
down
there
and
I
kind
of
walked
through
the
whole
thing
with
him.
He
told
me
a
little
bit
about
you
guys
and
how
things
would
go
and
explain
that
you
had
discretion
over
staff
recommendations
and-
and
he
was
just
optimistic
for
lack
of
a
better
word.
He
wasn't.
J
J
J
J
So
we've
got
this
repeating
pattern
or
modulation.
I
guess
of
that
for
pane
design,
and
what
we
were
able
to
establish
in
the
in
the
immediate
surroundings,
and
also
just
in
the
historic
district
in
general,
is
that
there
are
quite
a
few
examples
of
for
pane,
layouts
nearby
and
also,
if
you
notice,
they're
stacked
for
playing
for
pane
layouts,
just
kind
of
like
what
ours
is.
J
J
So
as
far
addressing
the
the
solid
to
void
ratio.
Once
again,
we
were
able
to
find
some
some
precedent,
especially
on
some
more
recently
built
buildings
that
has
have
a
small
or
have
quite
a
bit
larger,
solid
to
void
ratio.
We
realized
that
in
the
reframing
of
our
windows
that
we
lost
some
of
the
solid
the
void
ratio
got
larger.
We
and
we
realize
that,
and
we
we
feel
like
we've
substantiated
some
precedent
for
that
and
some
of
these
and
some
of
these
slides
here,
that's
an
older
building
with
masonry.
J
Just
like
us,
a
couple
of
different
buildings
there,
one
modern
one,
not
modern,
with
solid
the
void
ratio
similar
to
us,
so
I
just
wanted
to
put
that
back
in
there
I
think
we
still
have
a
lot
of
glass
and
is
you
know
its
representative
or
is
reflective,
I,
guess
of
other
buildings
and
the
vicinity
as
far
as
materials
go
Karl
you
and
I.
We
actually
brought
a
sample
of
the
brick
and
a
sample
of
the
metal
siding
and
a
sample
of
the
tongue-and-groove
cedar.
K
K
Yeah,
this
is
the
tongue-and-groove
cedar,
that'll
go
in
the
soffit
of
the
decks,
and
that
was
called
out
in
the
in
the
original
plans,
and
we
have
the
this
is
our.
This
is
our
brick,
material
and
I.
Do
you
believe
this
is
the
this
is
called
out
in
the
plans?
And
so
so
is
our
metal
siding,
22
gauge
steel?
So
you
know
these
are
these
are
just
examples
of
what
we've
got
and
that
we're
you
know
these
are
parts
where
we've
we've
followed.
J
So
basically,
this
building
obviously
is
is
a
one-of-a-kind
building
in
the
setting
that
it's
in
it's
it's,
it's
modern
in
a
very
traditional
area
and
well,
you
guys
know
a
lot
more
about
this
than
me.
It
seems
to
me
like
it
was
never
necessarily
meant
to
fit
in
per
se,
but
to
stand
on
its
own,
and
yet
we
still
feel
like,
even
with
the
changes
in
the
plans,
it
kind
of
almost
I
used.
J
E
H
H
J
E
E
H
B
A
E
E
E
E
Just
trying
to
understand
how
you
know
and
the
the
fact
the
windows
now
punch
through
openings,
rather
than
go
edge
to
edge
through
openings
I,
think
those
have
factors
that
that
we'll
need
to
consider
and
I'm
apologizing
that
I'm
not
getting
this
as
a
question
to
you,
but
I
think
your
your
information
has
helped
us
all
kind
of
stop.
Now.
F
J
Would
entail
demoing
out
about
50
windows,
I,
think
or
more
and
and
and
reconfiguring
the
openings
and
and
ordering
custom
windows
for
those
openings
and
refinishing
the
interior
and
the
exterior
both
which
would
the
cost
is
kind
of
unimaginable
that
you
know.
We've
had
bids
on
the
windows
that
it's
about
150,000
just
for
the
window
materials.
What.
J
K
F
J
F
A
F
A
A
K
Pally
with
matrix
construction,
one
of
the
things
that
we
could
do
we're
trying
to
obviously
avoid
replacing
all
the
windows,
but
one
of
the
things
we
could
do
with
the
front
door
is
to
get
a
nine-foot
look.
We
could
do
the
the
door
and
put
a
transom
a
photons
them
above
the
door
to
give
it
that
nine-foot
look
so
the
grains
all
match
there'll
be
a
reveal
of
course,
at
six
eight,
so
the
door
can
open,
but
then
there
could
be
a
piece
of
wood
above
that
that
matches
the
door.
K
D
K
D
L
L
K
I
can
say
one
thing:
the
vinyl
windows.
We
talk
to
our
vinyl
window
supplier
because
we
didn't
initially
install
those.
So
we
went
to
our
guy
who
does
vinyl
windows
in
there
they're,
not
just
a
standard,
maybe
I
shouldn't,
say
residential
bill,
there's
their
higher
grade
vinyl
with
a
dual
color.
So
there
there's
there's
some
durability,
some
better
quality
than
just
like
your
average.
So
it
wasn't
like
they
were
just
the
cheapest
thing
that
was
were
found
so
gotta
point
that
out
too
is
there's
some
quality
there.
K
E
Actually
answers
one
of
my
question:
I
was
gonna:
ask
if
I've
never
been
I've,
never
known
of
black
vinyl.
First
of
all,
I
guess
this
is
oh.
This
is
new
to
me,
but
I
was
going
to
ask
if
you
had
satisfactory
warranty
on
black
vinyl
windows
that
face
due
west
they're
gonna
have
an
awful
lot
of
heat
and
a
lot
of
UV
impact,
but
it
sounds
like
you've
yeah.
K
Answer
look
at
when
I
first
saw
the
building.
I
thought
it
was
a
metal
aluminum,
clad
window
and
I
went
up
and
touched
it
I
thought
it
was
so
it
had
that
appearance
and
feel
that
it
was
like
aluminum.
When
my
initial
investigation
on
the
building
was
nice,
first
saw
it
so
I
thought
it
was
pretty
decent
and
then
I.
You
know,
then
we
see
it's
not
Paul.
J
A
G
Have
to
say
that
this
is
why
I
remain
a
guppy
in
a
very
small
fishbowl,
instead
of
moving
to
a
larger
fish
tank
where
I
might
get
out
of
my
area
of
habit.
This
is
extremely
sad.
I
want
to
talk
about
the
context.
This
is
one
of
the
most
important
sections
of
the
central
city.
Historic
district
contains
the
Bamberger
mansion
and
the
armstrong-jones
mansion,
both
political
leaders
in
Utah,
and
it
has
contiguous
intact
streetscape.
G
The
other
part
of
the
context
is
that
this
is
the
second
meeting
in
a
row
where
you've
had
a
development
with
an
enforcement
issue,
and
that's
really
sad
also.
Those
of
you
who
know
me
personally
know
that
I
abhor
waste
at
any
kind.
I
can
stretch
reuse
of
materials
to
a
very
tedious
point
and
I
annoy
some
people.
By
doing
so,
there
is
so
much
waste
here
that
I
am
just
truly
saddened.
There's
waste!
G
No
matter
what
you
do,
the
previous
developers
who
had
completed
a
project
on
eight
East,
arrived
at
the
city's
doorstep,
with
a
design
just
as
bad
as
the
one
that
was
proposed
for
800
East.
It
took
a
tremendous
amount
of
staff
time
to
obtain
the
design
which
you
approved
a
tremendous
amount
of
staff
time.
It
took
time
from
the
inspector
who
made
the
call
or
the
staff
who
made
the
talk.
All
it
took
your
time
as
a
commission.
It's
taken
a
tremendous
amount
of
time
from
the
new
owners.
G
If
you
have
any
questions
about
why
I
think
each
facade
is
better,
as
approved
I'm
happy
to
go
into
detail,
but
I
think
the
south
and
east
facades
are
the
most
important
and
I
think
the
way
the
doors
on
the
second
level
and
the
entry
level
on
the
South
facade
lined
up
was
better.
Under
the
original
proposal.
G
A
J
Appreciate
that
yeah,
just
in
in
terms
of
the
the
difference
in
opinion
on
look
looking
like
a
commercial
building
versus
a
residential
building,
my
actually
my
feeling
about
it
is
kind
of
the
opposite.
My
feeling
is
that
the
the
floor-to-ceiling
windows
are
very
commercial.
Looking
I
think
it's
a
beautifully
designed
building,
don't
get
me
wrong,
I'm,
not
being
critical
at
all
of
it,
but
I
feel
like
what
we
brought
in
actually
and
lends
a
little
bit
of
of
a
more
homey
feel,
quite
frankly,
a
residential
feel.
So.
J
A
F
But
the
question,
in
my
mind,
is
whether
what
remains
complies
with
the
guidelines
and,
in
my
opinion,
the
opening
to
solids
and
all
of
that
stuff
is
probably
okay
in
terms
of
complying
with
the
guidelines.
The
thing
that
I
am
really
struggling
with
is
the
change
to
vinyl.
We
never
would
have
let
that
go,
I,
don't
think
to
vinyl
and
putting
in
50
vinyl
windows
next
to
the
Bamberger.
I
F
A
M
Guess,
I'm
really
struggling
with
the
waste
issue
for
most
I
agree
with
Paul
that
as
I
look
at
the
the
solid
to
void
ratio.
I
think
this
any
it
works.
I
think
it
meets
the
guidelines
in
terms
of
the
windows.
I
think
that
they
are
ultimately
temporary.
They
will
have
to
be
released.
They'll
have
to
be
replaced
at
some
point
because
they
just
don't
last
as
long
so
my
inclination
would
be
in
this
particular
situation
to
approve
it
just
because
I
think
that
the
alternative
is
really
not
conscionable.
B
D
E
D
With
Paul
about
the
solid
avoid
ratio
and
one
could
make
the
argument
that
that
a
series
of
vertical
windows
like
this
has
a
rhythm
to
it
and
there's
a
there's,
certainly
precedents,
and
they
start
district.
For
that.
However,
in
in
in
everyone
here
knows,
I
don't
approve
of
design
by
committee,
but
in
my
own
mind,
I
was
wondering
if
a
series
of
bent
metal
shapes
could
make
that
vertical
rhythm
feel
like
one
horizontal
panel,
so
in
other
words
a
dark
metal,
bronze
or
whatever
color.
E
Right
does
make
it
it's
a
different
different
animal
I
think
it
came
up
somewhere
sort
of
any
questions,
I
think
to
the
to
the
applicant
about
the
difference
in
window
profiles.
I
think
that
that
would
be
very
helpful
to
see
what
was
originally
approved,
that
that
window
versus
what
was
installed
I
think
I.
Concur
anything
and
David
I
had
sort
of
the
same
idea
of
it.
Could
they
be
ganged
into
one?
It
does
change
it
to
it.
B
I
think
I
came
in
today.
Thinking
I
knew
how
I
was
gonna,
decide
this,
but
I
have
to
hearing
what
they
had
to
say
and
all
that
is
transpired,
since
you
take
ownership,
definitely
makes
a
huge
difference
and
but
more
importantly,
though,
I'm
curious,
if
all
this
problems
that
you
run
into,
if
they
you
know,
the
applicants
have
learned
something
from
it
and
if
you
are
going
to
be
moving
forward
in
this
venture
of.
B
J
J
E
A
I
I,
don't
have
a
I
agree
with
what
everyone
said
so
far,
but
I
don't
get
there
to
start
I
mean
to
me
it's
you
know
we're
talking
about.
Can
we
live
with
this?
Is
this
adequate?
Is
this
colors
and
schemes
and
windows,
but
but
just
maybe
it's
cuz
I'm
a
lawyer
right,
but
I
go
back
to
the
process.
I
mean.
I
We
we
we
approve
it,
and
maybe
it
looks
better,
but
but
we
went
to
a
lot
of
work
to
approve
this
and
the
staff
went
to
a
lot
of
work
and
if
we,
if
we
grant
these
kind
of
what
I
call
a
waiver
or
whatever,
if
we
grant
this
change-
and
these
are
really
good
people.
So
it's
hard
to
do
this.
It's
hard
to
say
this.
It's
hard
to
see
the
waste,
but
but
the
entire
integrity
of
our
system
is
kind
of
shot.
I
Seems
to
me
that
if,
if
people
can
do
this,
I
mean
it'd
be
one
thing:
it
was
an
instant
homeowner
that
was
that
got
a
bad
contractor,
but
these
are
self-described
developers
who
admitted
that
that
they
didn't
even
come
out
of
this
meeting
with
the
criteria
and
got
him
a
month
ago
and-
and
it
seems
to
me
like
a
developer's
job-
is
to
know
the
criteria
and
to
make
sure
his
contract
or
every
day
is
following
them,
and
and
so
and
and
that's
just
on
the
windows.
You
know
the
the
brick
and
steel
was
theirs.
I
B
I'm
pretty
conflicted
about
this,
one
I
can
think
of
the
sustainability
aspects
and
the
waste,
but
I'm
also
thinking
about
precedent.
So
what
happens
now?
What
these
set
a
precedent
in
the
future?
And
it's
really
hard
to
make
a
decision
on
this
because
we've
we
have
all
made
mistakes
right.
This
is
like
really
expensive
one.
It
seems
and
a
really
wasteful
one,
but
yeah
I'm
feeling
pretty
torn,
but
there
is
a
reason
why
we
have
these
guidelines
right
so
I'm,
leaning
towards
respecting
the
guidelines.
M
Nicely
and
briefly
I'm
precedent,
because
we
don't
set
precedent
because
every
I
mean
we
think
we
do.
But
we
really
don't
because
every
case
comes
in
on
its
own
merits
and
we
decide
each
one
according
to
the
composition
of
the
Commission
on
that
day
and
what
everyone
feels
so
I'm
not
so
concerned
about
precedent,
because
every
project
is
different.
I'm
more
concerned
about
complying
with
guidelines
and
standards.
I
Chile
to
that
point,
I
guess
my
thought
and
I
think
my
comments
went
towards
precedent,
but
its
precedent
and
in
exactly
that,
are
we
going
to
enforce
our
rules
and
we're
not
going
to
enforce
them.
I
mean
not
precedent
and
how
we
maybe
what
we
allow
and
what
we
don't
allow
but
precedent
in
terms
of.
Are
we
going
to
enforce
the
COA
that
we
issued.
A
A
Second,
given
that
we
are
in
a
position
of
enforcement,
there
have
been
changes
made.
Is
their
relatives
level
of
importance
of
a
new
building
versus
an
existing?
Would
we
treat
the
two
differently
if
this
was
the
Armstrong
mansion
and
changes
like
this
were
made
maliciously
or
innocently
I?
Think
it's
pretty
clear
that
we
would
DISA
we
would
not
allow
it.
Is
there
a
different
way
to
look
at
the
new
building?
A
Third,
no.
What
I
made
was
the
question
of
precedent.
Are
we
setting
up
ourselves
for
a
situation
like
Robert
referred
to
where
everyone's
gonna
say
well,
those
guys
on
first
South
got
away
with
this?
Can
we
shelli's
point
is
well-taken
to
it?
Each
project
is
taken
on
its
own
on
its
own
merits,
but
we
may
see
that
I
don't
know
that
the
public
will
see
that,
and
the
last
issue
was
the
question
of
waste.
C
If
I
could
chime
in
you
know
considering
waste,
even
though
it
is
obviously
something
on
the
table,
isn't
part
of
the
standards
and
from
staffs
perspective,
whether
or
not
I
know
every
case
that
comes
before
you
was
supposed
to
be
weighed
upon
its
own
merits,
but
certainly
when
these
enforcement
cases
come
up,
the
community
is
watching
watching
what
you
do,
allow
and
and
and
pointing
to
projects
where
the
percentage
of
change
you
allow
is
appropriate
or
not.
I'm.
C
E
E
E
It's
kind
of
visible,
though,
because
of
the
adjacent
parking
lot
and
things
like
that,
this
elevation
is
kind
of
visible.
The
South
elevation
is
incredibly
visible.
Of
course,
what
is
the
staff?
What
is
or
what
is
Commission
think
about
relative
visibility
and
are
the
front
windows
the
same
as
unit
three's
front
windows,
yeah.
A
I
So
so,
to
be
clear
in
my
mind,
we're
looking
at
we're
talking
a
lot
here
about
whether
we
allow
the
windows
and
the
openings
for
the
size
of
the
openings
for
the
windows,
but
but
the
issue
of
the
brick
and
the
brick
and
I
guess
it's
coloration,
the
brick
and
metal.
That's
not
before
us
tonight
right
or
is
it
no.
A
E
C
And
the
try
part
windows
I'm
just
going
back
to
the
previous
discussion
and
staff
discussion
of
the
building
was
essentially
at
first
when
it
came
in
it
was
essentially
a
box
and
then
there
was
a
push
and
pull
of
wall
plane.
Then
it
was.
How
is
this
box
going
to
be
articulated,
and
then
it
was
a
great
amount
of
glass
that
added
this
permeability
to
the
building
and
now
it's
heavier
because
of
the
the
brick
change
and
you've
you've
lost
some
of
that
permeability
and
you
as
a
commission,
need
to
grapple
with.
A
C
A
F
M
M
A
E
E
It's
hard
to
turn
back
the
clock
a
little
bit,
because
I
think
we
all
recognize
that
the
the
approved
design
has
a
has
a
certain
elegance
that
feels
comfortable
in
historic
district
I.
Think,
even
though
it's
completely
modern,
there
was
a
level
of
detailing
and
a
little
level
of
effort
in
that
design.
That
was,
it
was
very
cohesive,
not
even
though
it
was
a
product
of
its
own
time,
and
and
this.
A
I
Probably
I
would
I'm
not
as
what's
the
word
I'm,
not
an
architect.
I
don't
have
as
much
feel
for
that
I
mean
I,
don't
I
don't
find
the
windows
or
any
of
it
offensive
and
and
yeah
I,
like
the
other
coloration
better,
but
I
know
I
I
probably
would
approve
it
I,
don't
as
you
can.
As
you
know,
that's
not
you
know,
I
mean
my
concern
and,
and
it's
just
it
hasn't,
it's
not
even
precedent.
It's
it's.
I
D
Sure
you
know
as
I
look
at
this,
and
this
is
the
money
shot
this
angle
here
that
to
him
of
the
the
facade
that
you're
see
as
you're,
driving
or
walking
in
direct
answer,
your
question,
I
would
say
yes,
I
would
like.
We
approve
this
if
the
first
time
or
pure
approve
it
with
some
conditions.
If
this
is
the
first
time
I'm
seeing
it,
but
there
are
things
here
in
this
model
that
help
me
think
that
it's
acceptable.
B
L
We've
got
to
the
entrance
there
up
to
the
entrance
and
to
about
Oh
back
past
the
front,
porch
and
stuff
the
Bamberger
mansion.
We
do
have
about
a
foot
and
a
half
two
feet
that
we've
got
plantings
that
will
work
there
once
we
step
up
to
retain
the
property
adjacent
to
us
behind
the
Bamberger
mansion
and
right
to
the
west
side
of
it,
we
had
to
put
a
retaining
wall
that
goes
right
to
the
property
line.
L
A
I
Can
the
Chiron
maybe
suggest
we
refrain
that
Canton
to
be
to
be
instead
of
precedents?
It's
just.
How
does
this
group,
because
I'm
curious
how
everyone
feels
about
just
enforcing
what
we
approved
that's
different
than
precedent,
in
my
mind,
precedent
does
matter.
Are
we
gonna
when
we
face
this
again?
I
A
I
A
I
E
D
J
B
E
B
E
C
If
you
felt
that
there
were
aspects,
if
you
felt
that
this
was
these
modifications
that
they
presented
met
the
standards,
you
can
approve
it.
If
you
believe
that
there's
more
guidance
and
you
needed
to
table
it
and
have
something
changed
that
you
needed
to
bring
back,
that
would
be
an
option
to
or
an
option
for.
You
is
to
go
with
the
staffs
recommendation
and
deny
it
and
just
approve
certain
portions,
and
they
would
have
to
change
those
window
openings
and
order
the
windows
and
recycle
the
windows
or
whatever
it
is.
E
In
Kent
and
I
think
there
one
thing
that
we
haven't
discussed
as
the
Commission
are:
they
are
the
three
areas
that
staff
did
recommend
approval,
which
was
the
change
of
garage
door,
material,
front
and
rear
doors.
We've
had
some
kind
of
interim
proposals,
I
think
happening
and
then
the
North
elevation.
So
so
there
are
aspects
that
staff
recommended
approval,
yeah.