Salt Lake City Planning Commission, 11 May 2022

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From YouTube: Planning Commission Meeting - May 11, 2022

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Salt Lake City Planning Commission Meeting - May 11, 2022

https://www.slc.gov

A

Sooner and deliver phase two much more efficiently.

B

To be able to basically close and shut entire concourse and terminal complex and start all.

B

B

C

Welcome to the salt lake city planning commission meeting for may 11 2022.. I understand we have a full room and I understand people are in the overflow room, um mostly for agenda item number one.

C

If you wish to speak on that item, you can fill out a card in the hallway and there is staff in the hallway that will be collecting them and they can give them to pass them up to us and I'll give further instructions when we get to the public hearing portion of that agenda item, so we have, if you'll notice well we'll start off with the report of the chair, you'll notice. So we did not have the minutes in the um in our dropbox because aubry is on vacation.

C

So we will not be voting on those tonight we'll tackle, hopefully both of them next meeting. um Anything from the vice chair.

D

Nothing to report. Thank you.

C

John um report from the director we're.

E

Still working on a microphone, but I just had one announcement for the public who parked below the library.

F

E

Everyone out in the audience who parked below the library.

G

I think it's free for about an hour, but tonight, if you need to leave the parking area.

E

Just hit the help button and say that you were at planning commission and they will let you out so that you have no issues leaving the parking garage tonight.

E

Okay, please hit the help button and say you were at planning commission. Those are the two important pieces that I wanted to announce tonight.

E

um I also wanted to announce uh for the planning commission that next month we plan on putting an item on the agenda or under the director's report, to talk about petition initiation and your role.

E

How priorities are set, what major citywide priorities we have in the hopper, where they are right now, just an informational session.

G

For you all can.

C

You make that less than the 30 minutes, so um some commissioners can have a question time to ask questions about certain things. Yes, absolutely absolutely that that's.

G

The purpose of it, okay, as well too so.

C

Sometimes the information.

E

On the agenda, yeah yeah.

C

Sometimes the information can take us the whole 30 minutes, but I know we have um some people. I will have questions wonderful.

H

C

As we work to educate ourselves and have an exchange of ideas, so I'm thanks makayla. That was a quick turnaround when I brought that up monday. So thank you. You got it! Thank you, okay, um with that, we will turn to our public hearings and our first agenda item is the affordable housing incentive. This is case, number pln, pcm, 2019-00658 and tonight the planner on this is sarah.

H

Thank you chair. This item is for affordable housing.

C

Sarah, I can't really hear you you need to really talk in that microphone.

H

Thank you. This item is for affordable housing incentives. Tonight, I'd like to give a brief presentation on the proposed incentives answer, questions from the commission and then have the commission open. The public hearing and staff anticipates that the commission will hold at least two hearings on the proposal and will not make a recommendation to the city council this evening.

H

So the request is for a number of changes to the city's zoning ordinance that are to facilitate the development of additional housing units, particularly affordable housing units. There are brief summaries of each incentive type on the slide I'll discuss each of these. Briefly during my presentation, so the planning division began working on this proposal to encourage affordable housing in 2019..

H

It was part of the implementation of growing slc, which was the housing plan that was adopted in 2017.. The plan identified a growing housing crisis in the city that has only increased since the plan was adopted and has accelerated over the past two years.

H

From the start, the intent of the proposal was to reduce barriers and incentivize the construction of affordable housing units and that's rather than require them through inclusionary housing, rent control or other means planning. Staff's opinion is that a greater number of units are constructed with overall lower prices through incentivizing, rather than requiring units.

H

One thing that I think is important to acknowledge is that this project is to modify zoning requirements, and this is what is under the purview of the planning division. We know, and we understand, that there are issues and concerns that zoning can't address like job wages or home prices and then outside of these proposed amendments, the types of units constructed and the rents that are charged for them.

H

The project began as an overlay that was to be added to the city's zoning ordinance overlay districts are mapped over existing zoning districts and provide additional regulations beyond those in the underlying zoning. Some examples are the historic preservation overlay and the airport flight path protection overlay.

H

As the regulations developed, we realized that it couldn't um wouldn't be mapped like a traditional overlay district.

H

These needed to be in a separate section of the code and they could be applied as the developer or applicant chose to use an incentive and, as far as changing what is allowed in different neighborhoods, there are a number of zoning districts where the incentives permit housing types that are not otherwise permitted and in many cases these types of houses were previously permitted in these areas and the zoning has become more restrictive over time as far as adus adus are frequently referred to when identifying potential, affordable, housing options.

H

As you know, these are already permitted on a single family properties where two family or multi-family dwellings are permitted or per state law as attached or internal units and they're. Also, a conditional use in single-family zones and you've already started the process to remove the conditional use process for these, and so planning staff didn't see a need to incentivize these as an affordable housing type through the zoning ordinance.

H

As far as process, I wanted to highlight the public process that we've gone through for this proposal.

H

Our first survey to the community was in late 2019 early 2020, and we had a very high level of response with over 2 000 people completing the survey we heard from residents that there was a need for affordable housing and more housing types in neighborhoods, especially when near transit or when greater residential density is allowed.

H

In 2020, we developed specific proposals for affordable housing. We presented them to the community in a story map with an accompanying survey, and we also held a facebook live event to discuss these. The survey results from this showed that two thirds or more of the respondents supported two family homes, townhouses and cottages and single-family districts when they were near transit or arterial roads through the rest of 2020.

H

In 2021, we developed an internal draft that was discussed among planning staff and others in the city, and we released a public draft earlier this year and posted on the project web page we held a facebook live event in february and then in person and online events throughout april. In addition, the council office sent a mailer to residents and property owners in the city to make them aware of this proposal and other housing-related zoning amendments.

H

So this is an overview of the next slides where I'll discuss the different aspects of the proposal and then the key considerations that were included in the staff report and the next steps.

H

So the first that I want to discuss are incentives for zoning districts that permit mixed use on multi-family structures. These are primarily allowing additional building height and then allowing for administrative design review.

H

I want to go ahead and give a couple examples. So, in the community commercial zoning district right now, 30 feet in building height is permitted and then 45 feet is permitted with design review and requires some additional landscaping and with their proposed incentives they would permit 45 feet with administrative designer view and then the landscape additional landscaping would not be required. It would not change the applicable design review standards, but it would simplify the process.

H

Similarly, in the d2 zone, 120 feet is permitted and then anything over 65 feet would require design review and would allow for an additional story than otherwise permitted and administrative design review.

H

So it also requires 20 of the units to be affordable at 80 ami. Unless they're larger units, then 10 would be to be affordable and then it would also make it so that only 10 percent of the units would need to be affordable if they were affordable at 60, ami, the ami or the area. Median income is the midpoint of the salt lake metro area's income distribution.

H

So half the people make more and half the people make less. Eighty percent of the median income is considered low income. Then fifty percent is very low income and so forth. The ami would change annually based on numbers that are determined by the us department of housing and urban development or hud.

H

As far as planned developments, the proposal would waive the planned development requirement for one developments in the gateway, mixed use and community shopping districts which require plan developments for projects and two for buildings, or lots that do not have street frontage.

H

This would require that 20 percent of the units would be affordable to those with incomes at or below 80 percent. Ami.

H

There is an addition or modification to the transit station area, zoning districts and in these the proposal removes the existing provision that allows for an extra story. If the proposal meets the points requirement for additional, I'm sorry for administrative review, it would allow this additional height only if affordable units are provided.

H

So this would be two stories in the core area which is greater than what is currently allowed, and then one story in the transition area, which is what is currently permitted.

H

This incentive would require the same percentage in ami for the incentives, as is required for the additional height and administrative design review.

H

As far as additional building types, this the proposal would allow for row, houses, sideways row, houses and cottage developments in the community business community, commercial, general, commercial and institutional zoning districts. These commercial districts permit multi-family, including townhouses that are planted as condo units, but they don't permit single-family attached units like row, houses and sideways row houses. So this would allow these when affordable units are provided.

H

It can be easier to obtain financing for townhouses or row houses that are plotted as individual lots, rather than those that are in a condo development, and so this may enable more ownership units.

H

The institutional district does not permit these types of uses, and so it would allow for row, houses, sideways row, houses and cottage developments when affordable units are provided and planning. Staff may consider a future amendment that would permit multi-family housing by right in the zoning district.

H

For the city's residential multifamily or rmf zoning districts, these permit multi-family housing. However, they have minimum density requirements that often make it difficult to construct multi-family units, and so the proposal would remove the density limits when affordable housing was constructed. That met the requirements on the slide, and there are separate provisions for for sale units and for renter occupied units.

H

There would be a lower ami and a lower percentage of units that must be affordable for rental units and then a higher ami and a higher percentage of units for sale occupied units for a single and two family zoning districts. There are some incentives. The proposal would apply in the r1 r2 fr and sr districts that have single and two family zones.

H

It would apply in areas that are on court within a quarter mile of high frequency transit stops. This would include rail and bus service. The map that has been prepared was made based on routes at the start of the project, and this included the initial funding our future routes.

H

However, it doesn't reflect service and route changes that occurred due to covid, and so uta has adjusted routes to reflect changes in commuting patterns and habits, and so this highlights one issue with a proposal and basing it on non-fixed drought, transit uta can be responsive to changes, but then it can also be difficult to implement zoning based on these routes.

H

As far as the additional housing types that are proposed for these zoning districts, it includes duplex, triplex, four plex and then row houses or sideways row houses in groups of three or four, and then the image on the slide is of a sideways row house. It would also allow for cottage developments.

H

There is a change from the initial public draft that allowed for some reduction in setbacks or yards. They would be required to meet the setbacks identified with the draft amendments that were included in the staff report, and so generally, these setbacks and yards for duplexes would be the same as the underlying zoning district and they would be 6 or 10 feet for row houses and then 10 feet for the other types like the triplexes or fourplexes.

H

I do want to clarify that the proposal does not allow for an increase in height from what is permitted in these zoning districts.

H

For example, in the r1 zoning districts, the height the building height is generally limited to 28 feet to the ridge of the roof or the average of the other principal buildings on the block, face or 20 feet for a flat roof, and this would not be modified and as far as how this could look, if the image and the graphic is a two story- 20 foot tall flat roof and so that 28 feet generally allows for a two and a half story: gable, roof building or like this one in the image, the two-story flat roof building, the building coverage could not be greater than what is permitted in that zoning district unless the average of the block face is greater and then it could be the same as what is on that block face.

H

In addition, the minimum lot width wouldn't apply, which could enable development of some difficult to develop properties.

H

So now I wanted to briefly outline the chapter layout. There would be a new chapter 52 for incentives, the first few sections are introductory and they could apply to other incentives that would be added.

H

Currently the affordable housing incentives are the only incentives, and then this section is divided into subsections, with provisions for each of the areas that I just outlined.

H

The draft language in the staff report packet also includes changes to other zoning, other errors of the zoning ordinance that would reflect the affordable housing incentives, adds several definitions and then permits affordable, housing developments that meet the requirements in zoning districts, where these housing types are not otherwise permitted.

H

There were four key considerations in the staff report. The first is that the proposal is consistent with plan salt lake and growing slc.

H

The second is that an incentive based approach is consistent with growing slc and state law and has been used in other cities. The and third, the report highlights some issues that have been raised during the outreach process. Some of these I've already mentioned during the presentation- and I want to clarify a few others one additional one- is that the requirements of overlay districts like the historic preservation overlay and its related standards and guidelines would still apply.

H

The overlay applies to local historic districts. Properties that are located within a national register district but are not locally designated, would not be subjected, are not subject to the same regulations. It would be difficult to demolish a contributing property in a local, historic district. However, contributing properties may be able to be modified to add units, but they would need to comply with the standards and guidelines and then, depending on the scope of these modifications, reviewed by the historic landmark commission may be required.

H

The final key consideration identifies the changes that have been made since the public draft in late january generally. These are provisions to clarify language. For example, it identifies that existing structures can be converted. It also clarifies the density requirement for the single and two families owning districts, and then there are the others that I've already identified.

H

Another additional consideration that the commission may want to consider is that you may not want to restrict the expansion of the additional housing types in the single and two family zones to those near high frequency transit.

H

This does limit the areas where these may be constructed and, as I mentioned before, it's subject to the changing routes, especially those bus routes, which has happened recently, particularly with pandemic and changing commuting routes and habits.

H

As far as next steps, we do expect at least two planning commission hearings and have public comment and discussion tonight with an additional meeting with any requested revisions and then, following the planning commission recommendation, the proposal will be transmitted to the city council, where it be scheduled for a briefing and additional hearing.

H

Are there questions for staff at this point.

C

Commissioners, go ahead, brenda.

I

Thank you for that very thorough report and for all the work you've put into this. We all know that affordable housing is an extremely important issue, and so one of the questions I had is really kind of technical, which is. We have an ordinance that says that you can put an adu on your property if you are, if you live in the house, if I can make a two-family house out of my house.

I

Under this law, then, I don't have to live in it anymore.

H

Okay, thank you. If you would convert your house to a duplex you, there would not be the same, require owner occupant.

I

Requirement and I can still make a duplex by building a garage apartment as a separate building.

H

I think an adu would still be considered an adu.

I

Well, an adu is is a definition that includes both garage departments and internal units, so sure so I'm asking you if I decide that I want to build a an affordable housing unit in my backyard, separate building um then and not live in my house anymore. I can do that.

H

I believe that if you wanted to construct an internal adu that you could, your house could be considered a duplex and then you would be. You would not necessarily be required to let you live in, but.

I

It, wouldn't it be a cottage home.

H

The cottage houses are generally grouped in or yeah.

I

I'm looking at the definitions, not what you might not what the preconception is here. Okay, so if it's a separate building, but it's still part of a grouping- and you know it's got a courtyard which is my backyard, so um is it allowed for me then, to build even a couple of cottage homes in my backyard and not live in my house anymore.

H

I am not. It doesn't seem to me that the construction of those homes in your backyard may necessarily meet the cottage home definition, but that is something that we've we've kind of discussed internally and we do. We do need to probably convey clearly as to how that could work moving forward. So.

C

Brenda that would be something you might want to bring up for potential revisions for the next thing or clarification yeah, that's nebulous to you and that yes, that's something, I think uh is exactly what we should be identifying and then we can direct staff to go back and look at that and clarify it, a little bit better um and perhaps revise so I'm going to try to keep a list of those. But if you also so in case, I don't get it quite right.

C

Any other questions from commissioners go ahead. Andrew.

J

uh Yeah uh thanks so much for all the work on this sarah. I know it's a ton of work to put something like this together. I have a few kind of comments and concerns. I mean this. This is definitely better than nothing. um It's really timid. I think, given we've seen, you know more than 35 growth in house prices in the last two years and more than 20 growth in rents and what would have been appropriate in 2019, I think, might not be adequate, and so I guess a few suggestions.

J

um I think the r1 r2 upzone. I would love to see that unconditional, um even if they're not affordable. You know, we know the biggest thing we need to increase. Affordability is just supply, we all know what happened in the auto market. Last year we had problems in the used car.

B

Commit commissioner, I'm sorry, I hate to interrupt you, but they can't hear you in the overflow room. So if you.

J

At mine, sorry, uh we all know what happened with the used car market right. We didn't have enough production of new cars, and so the price of used cars go up. Housing works the exact same way. We can get affordability in the used housing market if we put more overall supply in the market.

J

So I really like to see considering you know up zoning overall in the r2, and the other thing I'm really concerned about is the complexity of the zoning, because I know this deters a lot of developers, especially ones from out of state that might actually be able to produce at a lower cost the historic preservation overlay in particular.

J

I I think there's a lot of problems with affordability, with that, first of all, we're basically telling a set of residents that you don't have to put affordable housing in everybody else does, but if you somehow successfully got a historic preservation, overlay you're exempt from this, I think there's an equity issue with that and again I think it just adds complexity. So I'd like us to see consider repealing whatever allows these historic preservation. Overlays.

I

I have a question about that. Does that um about this? I I don't think you're saying that that projects in historic name named historic districts would be exempt from the ability to do this. They would just have to go through the landmarks commission, correct okay, so they still could do it. They would just have to make a cutesy little thing. Instead of you know,.

H

Modern one way of characterizing it, I think that there could be some different options that could be used in historic districts. There are, you know there may be some historic districts that still have some vacant lots. There are some non-contributing properties or some out-of-period buildings and those aren't subject to the same standards and guidelines as contributing properties, and so there's still some options for those and then for contributing properties.

H

There would still be the potential if they wanted to modify them to add additional units. They could do that as well. Right.

I

But contributing properties are very difficult to to tear down, as we know, correct.

C

Yeah and these historic overlays in historic districts are not don't come to us, they go to the historic landmarks commission and this is for the edification of the public in attendance, so um those are kind of outside of our purview. But I recognize andra's point any other questions for sarah adrian.

K

I have a question, so most of these would be enforced through deed restrictions. Have you all looked at mechanically and operationally and functionally how that will happen? Long term.

H

We've looked at that somewhat preliminarily at this point and have looked at some examples of how those work in other communities what we wanted to do was to kind of get some direction from the commission on the incentives kind of make. Some changes that you wanted to see and then put together some additional details on how those deed restrictions would work.

K

You want feedback from us on.

H

Not necessarily on the deed restrictions themselves, but feedback on the proposed zoning amendments and what would be included in them. First before you put together all of the mechanics behind those deed restrictions, because.

K

I would say administering those that if you know this really takes off, that is a huge administrative burden for the city and it's an administrative burden for the the landowner and and if you've got for sale due restrictions. You've got a whole different set of issues.

K

So if, if that's our mechanism for ensuring affordability, I think we really need to think through how that will be administered, because that's going to be key to its success or failure.

C

Sarah has um in your review and um with other communities that do this: do they have other mechanisms that they employ beyond deed restrictions,.

H

There are so many of them do have deed restrictions. A number of projects are subject to other federal programs that have monitoring as part of those projects, and so we wouldn't necessarily want to duplicate beyond what is already required for others, and so we would look at those examples at those examples as well. Okay,.

I

I have one other clarification that I want to ask, which is, when you say, affordable to up to the 80 ami.

I

Do you also mean that that that that would be required that a person like that live in that unit, just because it's being offered at a lower price, doesn't? Does it mean that you you have to that? It has that somebody living in it has to be um in that income area group.

H

Yes, that would be required so, for example, if it was one of the areas where half of the units would need to be affordable to that ami, it would need to like if there were, let's say four units. Two of them would need to be affordable to people at eighty percent amir below and then two of them could be market rate units yeah.

I

But when you say affordable, you're, not saying that's not the same as saying sure you know people with incomes, less than 50 percent are living there.

H

I

Is not clear, I think, okay in some of these documents, um in fact, there's there's one part of it where it's like basically goes against. That I mean it's sort of like didn't I I can look it up for you, but it doesn't.

I

I think that's not clear that in all of the cases you you have to not just make them affordable to, in other words, not just offer them at 600 a month rent, but you actually have to rent it to somebody who needs that kind of rent and that.

H

Would be something that would be included in part of the deed restriction as far as how they would need to um to kind of select the tenants or the owners who would live in the property, and um it would, and so there would be other areas where that would come into effect and that would be monitored. I'm.

I

Not sure it's actually in the in the law that the ordinance you provide and then.

H

We do also, we also will have some provisions for enforcement if the units are not occupied by those two who there's a those income classifications that we've identified.

I

We always we already have a source of affordable housing in salt lake city that is being underused, which is the adus that are currently being rented in airbnb and short-term rentals, which I'm sure most of you are aware, is not legal, not legal. Unfortunately, we have very limited methods of enforcement of that.

I

At one point, I counted over 1500 housing units that were being offered, um and I can count them the city can't, but I can count the number of units being offered on airbnb and vrbo whole whole units, not a room in somebody's house.

I

If we can't enforce that, how are we going to enforce this.

C

Hey, I'm sorry please! I haven't made this known yet, but we have rules of decorum at the planning commission and we do not allow clapping booing jaring. um So please be excited inside.

H

I'm not too knowledgeable about those regulations, but there is a state law, as I think, you're alluding to that kind of limits. What cities can do as far as enforcing those? This is separate from that and the city would have the ability to enforce them based on the requirements that we would have in our deed restriction.

J

But related I mean what is the cost of the administrative burden of enforcing this overall, I guess you know this city seems very resistant to raising property taxes and I, if we kind of, have to hire a whole lot more staff to enforce this.

J

I guess that would be potential. Do you have an estimate of the cost of enforcing it again? If you do unconditional up zoning, you don't have an administrative cost.

H

Sure- and at this point it depends on the number of people that choose to utilize the incentives. So it's one of those those things that's hard to calculate in advance, but we are aware that there could be an administrative cost to it and it could be significant, especially if there are a number of units and that's something to weigh as the planning commission and for the city council to consider in their review of these amendments.

C

Any other questions from commissioners go ahead. Rick.

L

Are there any studies or projections that from other cities that indicate how much these incentives may increase the available availability of affordable housing?

L

Is there a percentage increase that you would expect to see over a five-year period in a ten-year period.

H

Sure I understand, um I think that there are some other cities that have implemented overlays or similar proposals, but those cities aren't necessarily similar to salt lake and the incentives aren't quite the same. So it's somewhat difficult to say this is the number of units that could be created, or this is kind of this is how this will. um This is what we expect from this.

C

Okay, we have no further questions at this moment for you, sarah, so um we will move forward, we're gonna, I'm going to open the public comment period and I'll, give you all, including the overflow room, instructions on how this will go.

C

I'm assuming this is most of your first time participating. So I hope to give you enough information so that you're not surprised at how this works.

C

This is a public comment period and you will have two minutes because there are so many of you. I will be cutting you off at two minutes so that we can keep things moving forward. This is the standard employed with the city council, so we utilize that as well yeah, it's the same one, uh you maureen, the vice chair will be employing um baseball terminology. So, if you're familiar with that, we have who's up who's on deck and who's in the hole.

C

These cards are a mixture of who's across the hall and here so, if you hear your name and you're on deck or in the hole start heading over here, public comments will be happening at this lectern.

C

You are asked to state your name before your your. uh You start your public comments, so we have those for the official record um and we'll keep moving this forward. Maureen will call those names, and it's been my experience. Sometimes handwriting is tough, so we'll do our best with pronunciation.

C

As I said before, we have rules of decorum and we work very hard to make sure that everybody gets the chance to participate and give their comments. Regardless of what side you come down on a particular issue, and so we don't want people to feel intimidated. We want to know them to know that their voice is equally important, so there is no clapping, no jeering just keep it inside and do your best that way, otherwise I'll make sure that we clear the room so that, if we have to this is again public comment period.

C

This is not a back and forth q. A you are certainly free to ask questions during your time. I will endeavor to be writing them down. Once I close the public comment period, I will then pose them to sarah, so they can be answered, but we don't stop in the middle to do a back and forth q a. But I want you to know that you are free to ask questions that are on your mind and I will be writing them down uh and I think we're going to start the other.

C

The other little caveat here is that we will begin with anyone who is here or across the hall who is officially representing a community council which is a recognized organization and they will come up first and then we will move on to calling names so yeah. I will, uh if you would state your name for the record into the microphone and the community council you're representing, and then you will have up to five minutes as an organization.

D

Janet hemming, chair of the ill crest neighborhood council, the old cross neighborhood council, supports affordable housing, but it opposes the proposed affordable, housing overlay. This plan was conceived during a pandemic when most were preoccupied with mere survival. One percent of the city's population responded to surveys. That is not a mandate, but regrettably, they became the basis for justifying public opinion.

D

The city held open houses, five people attended and spoke at other forms, but this plan has not been properly vetted. Nor has the vast majority of the public that will be impacted been properly informed. More time is needed. There are so many unanswered questions about enforcement, developer, tax breaks and incentives, and the most important question of all. Will this really make a difference when asked planning officials didn't know? I asked plenty of officials to give examples of other cities where this type of plan has succeeded.

D

They suggested three los angeles, austin and cambridge, but none came close to the similarities of salt lake's plan by any measurement population, landmass or housing, housing. Demographics.

D

Even if the assumption was that salt lake's plan was inspired by these models, one wonders what the inspiration was because none, I repeat, none- propose that developers go into establish single-family, neighborhoods, demolish, establish single-family homes and replace them with high-density housing, which is in the salt lake plan. Lastly, and sadly, I asked planning officials what value do established in tech neighborhoods provide to the city of salt lake and what factors make them special. In your opinion, their answer.

D

This is a subjective question and the answer probably varies depending on who is asked. I was asking them the top planning officials in our city, not a million other people, and they had no answer. Thank you.

C

All right, thank you and we're there. We go judy.

D

Hi, I'm judy short, I'm the land use chair for the sugar house community council. I'm pleased that this is going to be tabled because it's not ready for prime time.

D

We understand there's a severe housing shortage, but before you think this is the way to go read about similar proposals in other cities and how they've turned out lots of groups will tell you it works and lots of neighborhoods will tell you it doesn't so pay attention.

D

Do the math pretend you make 7.50 an hour multiply that by 2088, which is the number of hours you would work if you work 40 hours in a year, 40 hours a week for a year and then play with those numbers see where you come out. Somebody making 750 would have fifteen hundred and sixty fifteen thousand six hundred and sixty dollars to spend in a year, and if you take thirty percent of that for their income, that gives them 400 a month for rent and utilities.

D

So I really think we have two problems. Housing is too expensive and wages are too cheap. I think this is going to miss a whole cadre of our population. That is not even thinking about in this town. We already have no enforcement. We can identify projects built with over-the-counter permissions because they look terrible.

D

What makes you think now, just because we have these affordable units, everything will be okay, that's the enforcement. Andrea was talking about. Have you looked on your own street to see how much parking is available before all these units get built, they're very little parking? I have five houses on my block that have no driveway.

D

There is no parking after nine o'clock. The planners go out at 10 in the morning and take all those pictures that show all the free parking, but not when people are home and trying to sleep in their beds.

D

We're encouraged to report zoning violations using salt lake mobile, but when we do nothing happens or we get a case, closed response and nothing changes, you should do everything in your power to find and convert all the airbnb properties in the city. The neighbors will help you find them and turn them into a regular housing unit. People who come from out of state can stay in our hotels.

D

That way you get people who want to be in a neighborhood, not folks that are just here for three days, so they leave trash all over.

D

One good thing is the original setbacks are put back, but I want to know where the walkable parks are, where the children have enough room to play, and you haven't said a word about what us neighbors are going to get out of this. This is a big sweeping change and we fear you're plowing ahead before you have any basic controls in place. It feels like we don't matter in this city, the developers reign, and now this feels like they get free rain.

D

All the controls are off. What is at stake, for us is the quality of our neighborhoods. If you turn all this into rentals, not owners, you lose the stability of the neighborhoods. Ask the people at the university what that's like, and you need to put all that infrastructure in place. Maybe you don't hire all the bodies because sarah's right, you don't know how many of this and that enforcer you need, but you need to have the rules about what's a violation and how you're going to enforce it, and then you have to do it.

D

C

Thank you. Did we have one other community council there we go. I thought so. Yes,.

E

Good evening, my name is nigel swaby, I'm the chair of the fairpark community council, and we have concerns with the city's proposed, affordable, housing overlay. After reviewing it, we found the following items: we believe could negatively affect our council area and others similar to us. We believe that affordable housing is a city-wide problem and should be addressed by policies that equitably share possible solutions across all council districts.

E

First, the way the proposal is structured only makes sense in the multi-family and mixed-use zoning areas, which are heavily skewed towards rental units. This will increasingly densify projects in districts. Two four and five real estate professionals we've spoken to about the proposal, don't think given current market conditions, especially with building costs, the other proposal categories will get any development interest while they are good ideas to generate housing stock. The affordability requirements make investment for such projects infeasible.

E

If we operate in good faith that our current housing crisis is caused by a short of a shortage of housing units of all types, wouldn't a better solution be to create zoning changes like the proposal suggests, but to remove the affordability requirement, isn't less restriction and greater density and affordability component in itself.

E

We believe that would create greater investment in communities like ours, generate more ownership opportunities and allow development of additional single-family homes to keep the look and feel our neighborhoods currently possess. As a community, we are only willing to offer support the to the affordable housing overlay. If you remove the affordability requirements as outlined in the document, the increased density capacity of the overlay and the ability to build housing in non-residential zones will be incentive enough to get the additional housing stock.

E

We so desperately need, as a city approving the proposal as it stands, will only generate additional density in districts that are already zoned for it and will contribute to further housing inequity in our city. Thank you.

C

Okay, thank you.

C

Any other recognized organization, no okay, please go ahead, come forward. Yeah come forward state, your name and the organization that you're representing.

M

Great, thank you. My name is amy j hawkins, I'm chair of the ballpark community council. uh Thank you to the planning commission for your time and service this evening.

M

I'm here today to comment on how this is a profound, missed opportunity, I'm speaking on behalf of a neighborhood where only 15 percent of households are living in homes they own, where 79 percent of households are renting and six percent are vacant. According to our latest station area plan month after month, we host developers at our meetings and ask them if their proposals are for rentals or owner-occupied units, and they are always for rentals.

M

Some of you may have seen the front page of this sunday's salt lake tribune on public safety concerns in the ballpark area, where families talked about leaving the neighborhood or having left, because they no longer feel safe. The reasons for crime and ballpark are complex.

M

Some are related to our homeless resource center, but there's only so much a city can do to address a problem much longer larger than salt lake city. However, as the salt lake tribune stated, it's a problem, the city is not prepared to fix.

M

We often hear that the best way to deter crime is by knowing one's neighbors. Clearly, it's easier to know one's neighbors if folks stay in place for years at a time. In other words, what deters crime are the long-term relationships that residents have with each other in neighborhoods that contain a smaller proportion of renters than what we currently house in ballpark.

M

These incentives could have addressed missing middle for sale, housing. More than half of utah households were unable to afford median priced homes in 2021.

M

Nearly three quarters of renters were already priced out in 2020 renters, who want to become homeowners are desperate. They know that buying a house is one of the primary ways to accumulate wealth and they don't want to be left behind without a way to incentivize for sale. Housing developers will continue to show up to ballpark with rentals.

M

Those who can't afford to buy are stuck with rapidly increasing rents and spending more money, but getting none of the financial benefits of owning and we're stuck looking for long-term relationships in ballpark. Thank you.

C

Okay, thank you very much. Okay, we're gonna! Oh, we have another one: okay, go ahead,.

N

Good afternoon my name is brian burnett, I'm with the foothill sunnyside community council. uh First of all, I want to thank you for taking the time and effort to for your service and this I know this is a difficult issue.

N

N

File my comments and my concerns regarding the affordable housing overlay as it applies to the you know, r1 and two zones, the we. We believe that specific well, specifically the hill sunnyside area.

N

We believe the proposal will negatively impact our our single family, neighborhood and community, and here are some of the reasons why we think allowing construction of row houses, duplexes, triplexes and four plexes to replace single-family homes on small lots will materially change our neighborhood.

N

The size and scale issues proposed by the aho are completely incompatible with the existing neighborhood.

N

People have purchased homes here with the expectation that the homes will be single-family. Housing families seek out this area because of its character and zoning. The proposed change will discourage families from buying here. This can, in turn, impact the number of students in our schools which are already facing challenges.

N

Fifty percent of each unit must be set aside as affordable uh housing with incomes at eighty percent of ami area median income, as has been discussed earlier, salt lake city has no ability or currently to enforce these types of things and are currently not enforcing many of the other ordinances side yard. Setbacks would shrink up to 25 percent. I know there's something some discussion about changing that, with minimum requirements being removed, new housing would loom over existing houses, one parking spot per unit.

N

This proposal does not include adequate parking. The area already struggles with parking, many of the current homes have single car driveways or do not have driveways. This proposal means more people fighting for street parking. The developers will be given a fast track for project approvals, removing typical delays and timelines. Where reviews can protect the neighborhood.

N

The draft inc incorrectly assumes that parcels adjacent quote: parcels adjacent to arterials are often less desirable for single-family homes because of their location on corridors with higher areas of traffic. Unquote, our neighborhood is currently a desirable single-family neighborhood, even though it is near these major arteries traffic arteries. The proposed aho has the potential to turn our neighborhood into a student rental market for the university of utah.

N

The area is already under stress in the next few years. Research park will add commercial, build businesses and the university of utah allowed significant housing. There are traffic issues associated with this proposal and I've seen this happen in my hometown of logan. I mean you know when if you go back to areas close to university that allowed this to this type of stuff to happen, it's they're all rentals.

N

There are no families there, based on the feedback from our neighbors, no one that I've talked to favors these affordable housing overlay in the foothill sunnyside uh neighborhood we're currently getting a petition together in three days. I'm sure we've got like 100 signatures and we haven't even scratched the surface, so I'm pretty sure it's gonna be almost unanimously against the proposal as it applies to our neighborhood.

N

uh You know if you and if you know it's a cousin, if you think if the idea is to get affordable housing, I don't think this will accomplish it. So, in the meantime, you're you'll damage a wonderful single-family, neighborhood and other neighborhoods that are every single family, and we ask that you do the right thing and vote against this proposal.

N

Thank you for your consideration.

C

All right, thank you.

C

This is the last call for any recognized community organization, representative, okay, we'll move on to the public comment period of all the cards that we've received. If you want, if you haven't, filled out a card, please do so in the hallway and then it'll work its way up to us.

D

Okay, we have william metcalf, who also submitted a written document.

C

We're going to assume that william's comments will be read into the record at the end. um I've passed them on. So if.

D

He doesn't if he doesn't wish to speak shortly.

C

Okay: okay, we're going to start the.

M

On a looks like josh.

D

C

Going to be up he's.

D

On deck he's on deck josh on deck, okay, okay, so.

C

John those comments, then you do not need to read. Okay.

D

And brian dayton is in the hole, okay, perfect thanks.

O

My name is william metcalf, I'm a mechanical engineer, industrial project manager, retired a homeowner in holland, park, sugarhouse area.

O

We moved to this location in 19.

H

O

I know to raise our family primarily because of the zoning and the schooling we have. Two children graduate from highland high and one from waterford two are now doctors and our daughters in hospitality management.

O

We locate here because of the zoning for this neighborhood and the single-family home style you're, proposing to change that.

O

My concern, I have a concern about the infrastructure that is available for this change, that you're proposing available water supply and delivery. I know we have a pipeline that is in progress somewhere from the east east bench, but the source of that water I'm concerned are: we are we going to need more water restrictions? Of course we are.

O

Have you noticed, what's happening in the colorado river basin, serious stuff? You know we live in an arid climate, sufficient wastewater treatment facilities. Do we have those in place?

O

I've noticed so many multi-family drawings. I don't know that we have the wastewater treatment facilities available to handle that much less the supply of fresh water and there's less efficient ground transportation.

O

With the multi-family units that have been constructed here, there's a difficult time getting on the freeway or making my around the neighborhood so.

C

Much, I think, that's time, that's time. Thank you. Sorry, that's time, and we do have your comments that you wrote and we'll put those in the record later all right next step. Thank you. Thank you. So much.

D

So josh or joel mimont.

D

Brian dayton you're on deck, james lewis, you're in the hole. Thank you.

B

All right, uh my name is josh, I'm with wasatch tennis, united, I'm here to oppose the city's council's uh affordable housing overlay that they've proposed today. The whole plan is wholly insufficient for renters in salt lake city.

B

It doesn't adequately address the needs that renters have in the city, even though they're saying that they're making housing more affordable for tenants inside of the city, it still continues to be more expensive than people can actually afford, even at their 80 percent ami index that they're putting out here, uh rent is still 1400 a month, which is more than double what I pay currently and more than what I can afford in any capacity to pay for rent.

B

It's going to continue to push people outside of the out of the city as rent prices continue to increase. Even with these policies put in place that allow more zoning to have this kind of thing to happen. It's not going to work wages, keep growing too slow. It's not sufficient. Inflation keeps rising. A big driving cause of that is because rent prices continue to increase year after year with covet happening, rent prices increased dramatically. I've heard of people's having their entire.

B

You know apartment complexes, raising rent more than double what it was before up to 1800 a month, which is ridiculous. No one should have to pay that much for rent and it leaves so many people out of the ability to actually pay for rent in the city. uh It's maybe 80 percent ami can afford to pay rent, but you know there's still 40 of the population in salt lake city. They can't even afford to pay the rent at this kind of capacity.

B

It's going to leave people out of the city, and this is not going to work and the city has the power to do these kind of things and enforce and make things kind of happen in the first place. But it's not going to happen uh they're instead getting in bed with the developers making smaller, lower quality housing by trying to push sros and make that kind of development process available to anybody inside the city.

B

uh Where you know we have to share bathrooms and kitchens uh with other tenants when we don't think that's a good way to go forward. We want to see the city grow and be successful, but this is not how we do it. It's going to continue to push tenants outside of the city, uh we're not going to be able to live here, and, ultimately, salt lake is not going to grow or be successful. If this continues to go forward, um the people are going to be hurting, and this is not sufficient.

B

You should be embarrassed of yourselves for thinking that this is even remotely close to being acceptable for the people of salt lake city to be able to afford. Thank.

C

You, mr woman,.

D

Brian dayton, james lewis, you're next and then steve littlefield.

P

Hello, my name is bryn dayton, I'm a member of wasatch attendance, united and I'm a tenant living in the ballpark area, though not associated with their community council. I have read the full, affordable housing overlay recommendations, and my first concern is that the incentive requirements are far too conservative.

P

The city has proposed that new buildings only need twenty percent of new units to be affordable to people making. Eighty percent of the area median income. These incentive requirements would only make those units affordable to people making more than 51 thousand dollars a year. In other words, a one-bedroom apartment could be rented at about thirteen hundred dollars per month and be considered affordable by this city.

P

Myself and wasatch tenants united, reject these proposed requirements and would like to see the city require that 50 of all new units be made affordable to people making 30 percent of the average medium income. We want working people in this city to be able to rent a one-bedroom apartment for only five hundred dollars a month that is affordable, housing as well as changing the incentive requirements. Myself and wtu need to see language adopted in these changes that prevent landlords and developers from creating and renting out, sros and micro apartments.

P

The residents of this city should expect no less than a 500 square foot apartment with its own private kitchen and bathroom sros are not the way to solve the housing crisis. They only create problems for residents and more profits for landlords who are already wealthy.

P

We hope that the council here will consider our proposals, one for the incentive requirements to be changed to requiring that 50 of all new units will be affordable for people at 30 percent of the average median income, two that no units can be less than 500 square feet and must have their own private, bathroom and kitchen, and three that these requirements are enforced by conditional use rather than deed restrictions. We demand this because we def deserve dignified and affordable housing in our city now and in the years to come. Thank you.

C

All right, thank you, mr dayton.

D

James lewis, your next steve littlefield, is on deck and benjamin petry is in the hole.

J

E

My name is james lewis and I'm a tenant in the east central.

J

Neighborhood here- and I just want to be a voice of advocacy for housing supply.

E

I think that that's really critical for salt, lake's, housing, affordability, issues and I think that housing supply issue is best addressed through transit, oriented development, specifically so having more housing, more housing density in the transit corridors that already exist, and I think this proposal goes in the right direction and trying to encourage that along certain arterials and transit corridors. But I think the scope of the proposal could be enlarged and I think the complexity of the proposal could be reduced and going further in those directions would help propel housing.

E

Affordability here in salt lake city, for tenants, like myself, but also for homeowners, so that tenants and homeowners did not have to compete over the same housing stock when there was a greater supply of housing. Overall. Thank you all.

C

Right, thank you, mr loss.

D

Steve littlefield you're up benjamin petry you're on deck, cindy cromer you're in the hole.

N

Thanks for allowing me to say a little bit tonight, my name's steve littlefield, I'm, I think, I'm in kind of a unique position.

L

With the people here, my wife and I live in the same house that I grew up in in the highland park area purchased by my mom and dad in about 1940.. They raised five kids. There they loved the neighborhood. They didn't buy the house to flip it in some sort of ongoing upward investment scheme. They wanted to live in a neighborhood. They wanted to know the people around them and they did and we still do.

L

We have neighbors that we've had since I was a.

N

Child I'm 62 years old.

L

I know every square inch of my neighborhood and I love it. I'm concerned about things like traffic and noise and sewer and water.

N

And I think it'll drastically change the the flavor of this neighborhood.

L

That I love and I don't think it's going to benefit people like me- who've lived there and invested their lives in the neighborhood. I don't know who it's going to benefit I'd like to know that, but I don't think it's going to be me or my neighbors.

L

So thank you for listening to me.

C

Thank you, mr littlefield.

D

Benjamin petry.

D

Okay, cindy and then elizabeth littlefield is on deck and john.

D

Masterson is in the hall: okay,.

P

Hi, my name is cindy cromer, I'm speaking as an individual. This proposal does absolutely nothing for people like me who already provide affordable or less expensive, more modest housing without subsidies. I have units starting at 425 dollars a month with all utilities included.

P

I get absolutely nothing from this city for doing that, so I want to talk tonight about the stalled legislation and what happens when you send things forward. I'm delighted to hear that there might be another opportunity.

P

You've sent the sro now called shared hoy's housing forward, and it is stalled at the city council. The parking ordinance which is directly related to housing is also stalled. The rmf 30 modifications that you sent forward two years ago is stalled.

P

The housing loss mitigation ordinance, which most people who've studied it realize is piece of junk, has never been addressed in 25 years. I refer to anderson, price's, brilliant analysis of the problems with that ordinance recently.

P

So there's some things seriously missing here, aside from consideration of people like me, who actually walk the walk, one of them is the role of depreciation and decision making, and no one in this building seems to understand the role of decision making for land and the role of depreciation and decision making.

P

The issue of the enforcement has already come up. 80 percent of ami is not the problem. I can give a tutorial on how to make adjustments to your lifestyle if you're 80 of ami and you can live very comfortably, it's below 80 percent- that we need to be dealing with, and I deal with and the reduction of green space, the suggestion that, because people might be providing more um affordable housing at 80 percent of ami, they don't have to provide as much green space is really appalling.

P

We are so short in terms of open space, particularly in the core of the city.

M

That's time, cindy thanks. Thank you.

D

Elizabeth littlefield jonathan, I think this is matt matson, masterson and then janie.

C

Q

C

Janie who lives on 900 south.

D

Jamie who lives on 900 south you're in the hall.

P

My name is elizabeth littlefield and I live in the highland park area. My husband just spoke to the nature of our way of life, and so I won't repeat any of those, but I have some big concerns about this overlay. I don't think it is going to help anyone or solve any of the pricing, affordable, housing issues. My concerns are that I've attended several meetings of these. Since I became aware of this two months ago from a concerned, neighborhood neighbor um every time I ask the officials about certain questions.

P

I don't get clear answers and that is very concerning to me. I get answers like well, that is in our department. They need to handle that. Then we talk to that person. They need to handle that that's not under our control.

P

So to me that seems like we're not going to be able to solve any of this and everybody's just going to pass the issues and the concerns along, and we won't actually accomplish anything that we set out to so that is one of my concern in our neighborhood. Our lots are small about an eighth of an acre. We have an 1100 square foot house, you put a fourplex on. There requires parking spaces, that's four.

P

We barely have space for two and if you've only got one bedrooms, we're not talking about families, so that means two more individuals, so that means eight cars that will now need to have parking spots, because you know two cars per couple, so those are some of my concerns.

P

Affordable housing is a concern, but this is not the way to solve it, and we've worked hard for our way of life. We have sacrificed, I work for what we have and I don't want to see that ruined.

P

Thank you for listening.

C

Thank you, ms littlefield.

D

John massey, is it masterson matson uh janie on night, south.

L

It's jakey siolo um hi. My name is jakey siolo, my pronouns are he they I'm here to represent the pacific islander community. I am the case management coordinator with pacific island knowledge to action resources. I work around housing and especially with survivors of domestic violence. My community is being displaced and pacific islanders have a history of being displaced by this city. In the last week I have had four families displaced due to their rent being increased by five hundred dollars with barely any notice. All our single mothers all are survivors of domestic violence.

L

Many of my clients were displaced because developers displaced them to build quote-unquote, affordable housing. All of the affordable housing have wait lists like no other and force families to live on the street. I believe that this proposal is a way to co-opt affordable housing language and to deregulate housing, and I stand with wasatch tenants and demand this overlay not continue.

L

I encourage you to get into the communities that this will impact black indigenous people of color and underserved communities. Until this commission board looks like the residents being displaced, I don't believe you, as commissioners can actually solve this housing crisis.

L

The solution to true, affordable housing is actually understanding and caring for the community members you work, for it is giving them true, affordable housing, which is not dormitories like proposed sros, and have no privacy whatsoever. Building more apartments will not solve this issue. To solve the crisis. To protect. To solve this crisis is to protect tenants rather than please out-of-state developers.

L

True, affordable housing is not treating low-income residents like they are a problem when, in reality they are a victim of a bigger systemic problem. Humans deserve affordable housing thanks.

C

Okay, thank you. um I'm going to back up john matarch has indicated that he did not wish to speak, but he's listed for the record. His concerns are parking: child safety, landlord and city property. Okay,.

D

Okay, abby hoffman is next nigel.

D

C

D

On deck and ben la riviera uh in the hole.

R

Nigel spoke earlier.

C

Oh, that's swaby nigel swaby. He was with me.

D

C

D

We have and then then jenny pulcifer becomes in the hole.

C

Okay, so abby hoffman is not here, so we will read again. She said she did not wish to speak, but her concerns are the zoning overlay allows for sro developments through loopholes, not affordable, livable housing.

D

Are you ben.

C

C

You're abby hoffman yeah, I'm sorry, so you mark that you did not wish to speak. So that's why I read it. I'm sorry go ahead! We'll give it to you.

N

My main concern I'm here with wtu as well I've. My I grew up here. My family grew up here. We've all been renters.

N

My concern is that I don't believe that this housing overlay will allow for stable, affordable housing. I believe that this is a gateway, uh there's loopholes for sro developments within this overlay.

N

It allows for uh developers that meet certain requirements in order to build like smaller than 500 square foot apartments um and living spaces. This is what bryn spoke about when they made their comment earlier.

N

In short, I I just don't see that this is actually affecting affordable housing. I think this is allowing for tighter and tighter housing developments that are unlivable for the people that actually live here. At the same time, being unaffordable josh spoke earlier about the ami problem. I don't think this is going to be resolved here. I can barely afford my rent as it is with my partner. That's about it 1200 dollars a month.

N

I don't. I don't meet the requirements here. I don't, and I I'm worried and concerned that my friends and the people that I knew grew up here will be pushed out. So, who are we making salt lake city for it's not for me, it seems that we're making developers and landlords the money, so they can just bring in people who have the wealth in order to live here it isn't for salt lake city. I don't believe this project is for salt lake city. Thank you. Thank.

C

You, mr hoffman,.

D

Okay, we have ben lautervier, jenny, pulcifer and then janet hemming.

L

Yeah thanks, I'm ben lariviere. um I live just south of liberty park, um I'm in my early 30s. I love the city. I love my community and I just want to thank you for trying to address this issue. um I I know it takes a lot of courage to stand up to people who might not like propose changes. So thank you. um My comments are in regards to um the proposal. I think that you can't address a housing shortage without building more housing, and that is the central thing that we need to deal with.

L

I think um there's a house on my block: I'm not just a couple houses over that sold for 300 000, almost more than it did just a couple of years ago, and that's because people want to live here, they're coming they're upbeating each other, so the central issue is they're, just simply not enough houses for all the people who want to.

E

L

E

L

E

L

So any changes to the zoning that would allow uh duplexes, triplexes fourplexes row house that sort of thing can really increase supply in in a way that could be meaningful to a lot of people and then my. My second point is around climate change. There's there's I'm very concerned about climate change myself.

L

I worry about it all the time and there's research that shows the denser a community, the lower the per capita carbon emissions. So increasing density is a climate solution um and then another point I wanted to make is that people were talking about concerns about parking.

L

I think that in a lot of the most successful cities in the world, if it's dense enough, you can take a bus, you can walk, you can bike, there's lots of other options and if it's harder to park, maybe you'll drive less. That's a good thing in my opinion and then dents can be livable. There's cities around the world that we travel to americans love to go to amsterdam and paris that have densities much much higher than salt lake. But then we we lose our minds if someone proposes increasing density around here.

L

So I think that's a good thing um and then there was also concerns about infrastructure. If we increase the density. Is that going to put string in the infrastructure?

L

I think the point is if we um don't build here to build an eagle mountain where it's two hour commutes, so it's more sustainable to build close to existing infrastructure. That's time. Thank.

C

You thank you so much.

P

Hi, my name is jenny, pulcifer um and I own a home in yale, crest.

D

Would you give me like half a second here sorry, so janet hemming on deck and then alex purcell um alex purcell didn't want to speak, so you can read that one and then ann tanner, then cesar hernandez go ahead.

P

My name is jenny, pulcifer and I own a home in yale crest, increasing density in any neighborhood that is not within walking. Distance of light, rail or train transit will lead to traffic congestion and an increase in the and a decrease in the quality of life everywhere in the city buses. Even those that arrive every 15 minutes are not convenient enough to prevent people from relying on their cars, and I, too am concerned about climate change. As we plan for more dense neighborhoods, we need to make sure that we're not increasing traffic congestion.

P

I know this from personal experience I own a home on yale avenue. I work in provo and I get there by bike and front runner. It takes 35 minutes to reach front runner by bus, most residents of new housing in yale crest. Faced with such a time consuming bus ride before they can even get to light rail or front runner would use their car. This would greatly increase congestion in east side neighborhoods and the city in general. Since everyone living there has to go somewhere else to work shop or access entertainment.

P

Only those neighborhoods that have proximity to tracks and front runners should increase their density, allowing the entire city to grow without excessive traffic congestion.

P

The city cannot afford to put trax lines everywhere, so it should wisely target areas close to jobs and transportation and provide green space and amenities to make those places appealing before you assume I'm just another, not in my backyard person.

P

Let me state that my daughter's family now lives in my yale avenue house, my husband and I moved to a condominium in a much more dense area on lower capitol hill. We did so knowing it was densely populated and would likely become more so because we wanted easier access to public transportation and the amenities downtown. That's.

C

Time, thank you, mrs thank you.

D

O

I'm I'm jim webster, the vice chair of yale chris, janet already spoke.

C

D

Okay, okay, I was confused ann tanner and then cesar hernandez and ransom smith.

M

The word water is used zero times in the 131-page document, including the survey conducted provided by the city to explain the affordable housing initiative proposal. Conversely, the word water is used 45 times in the comments and concerns from people about this proposal. The state's water supply cannot sustain an unlimited population.

M

Sb 110 water is part of the general plan, has an effective date of may 4. 2022 requires the water use and preservation element to be part of a municipal or county general plan. The current proposal does not address how the water supply will be managed with the increased population that this proposal will create.

M

None of the above initiatives from this plan mention making sure new development is budgeted according to water supply. What is the city's quantifiable? Not qualitative phrases like conserve, more water use and preservation element in regards to new development and the affordable housing initiative.

M

What is the city's quantifiable plan to preserve the water rights of current residents over prior prioritizing future residents? A study conducted by stanford professors on affordable housing showed that their analysis revealed in affordable housing projects in low-income regions.

M

The worth increased the value of the area by 116 million dollars in the immediate surrounding areas of these projects, whereas in higher income areas, the new building led to a loss of approximately 17 million dollars. How does the city plan to compensate property owners for the decrease in property value? This proposal will cause according to the research cited, the city has the opportunity to increase the property value for those in low-income neighborhoods and refrain from decreasing property value in higher income neighborhoods.

M

Why are they not taking this approach? What data is the city basing its proposal off of that people will not own cars and therefore only need one off street parking stall. How does the city intend to manage increased street parking on narrow residential streets where street parking creates unsafe driving hazards and also.

C

M

Bike ability it's time would.

C

You state your name for the record and.

M

Tani thank.

C

D

Okay, I have cesar hernandez next ransom smith and I have mary, katherine yonker, and she didn't indicate whether she wanted to speak or not.

C

So when it's her time, if she's here great, if she's not we'll put it in the pocket, go ahead, please good.

L

Evening cesar hernandez here, I'm a homeowner in the foothill sunnyside neighborhood and first off I'd like to thank the planning commission for taking the time to hold this hearing. I'd like to thank everyone attending, um even if you're you know for or against the proposal. I think it's really great that we're all here together.

L

I'd like to voice my support for for the proposal, um I'm coming at this as a as a parent of two children, we have uh two kids in the bonneville school and my son's second grade class has 15 kids in his in his school and the principal's talking about extending expanding the the school boundaries making it, whereas my son's friends used to live. You know, pretty close by now, have to now are going to live a few blocks away because there just aren't enough kids to fill the school.

L

um So that's really my my my main concern uh with this. I'd also like to say that the the aging population in our neighborhood, the homes, will probably turn over the next 20 years. This gives us all a really great opportunity to help curb um legislation proposal, whatever the term is for, for. What's going on to help make these changes now, so we can be a part of it rather than you know not having any changes and having issues come up in the future. So thank you. Thank.

C

You, mr hernandez.

D

Okay, we have ransom smith, mary, katherine yorker and then michael valente, or valentine okay, okay,.

C

N

Hello, my name is ransom smith. I'm.

E

A homeowner in central city pause.

C

David's trying to check into why that feedback is happening. I don't know if you, okay, okay, I I think that might be it.

E

I'll speak from up here, and hopefully it uh hopefully it's audible. uh My name is ransom smith, I'm a homeowner in central city. I have a technical concern about the uh uh 80 ami, affordable housing incentive in the proposal.

E

As I read it at a recent open house, it said that the developers will be required to price some number of units at eighty percent at a standard of affordability for 80 ami and that, if they did not do so, then that they would be charged a fine equal to the difference between the price and the affordability standard of 80.

E

Ami, uh to my view, this penalty, equal to the difference in price, is no penalty or incentive at all and that it simply encourages developers to plan to price it along with the rest of their units, at whatever level they would like and then cut in the city at 20 of the take on their price.

E

Excuse the expression, but I think uh if the developers are planning to succeed in offering affordable housing, then a penalty of tremble trouble damages would be entirely uh proportionate and uh reasonable and appropriate. I yield the balance of my time.

B

Madam chair, mr smith, yeah there was a couple people that accidentally marked the wrong box and they indicated didn't want to speak, but they do so. If you get to um jody nelson and alex parcell, they do wish to speak.

C

Okay, I'll pull them out and we'll we'll call them. Thank you. Thank you.

D

uh Mary, katherine yorker yonker, you know it's here. She has a comment there, michael valente valentine, then david.

D

And jansen hayes.

L

Hi, I'm michael valentine. I am a mayoral candidate next year for salt lake city 2023. I support wasatch chance united before I get into how terrible this overlay is. I'd like to say two specific things. Later this week, there's going to be official complaints filed against the mendenhall administration, the city council, the rda, basically all of salt lake city over illegality and corruption. Aaron mendenhall has taken campaign, finance um donations, illegal campaign, finance donations in 2019 from developers and again in 2023.

L

um Just in january, she took donations from ivory homes, who has a proposal submitted for the fourth time to you guys, that's very controversial on the avenues right now um and her husband's a developer. um She has uh interest in a 54 million dollar development just five minutes away from here. So um second thing, real fast too, is that your comments today that I've been hearing about uh historical overlays and historical housing is atrocious.

L

Right now, one of the greatest buildings in utah history is being destroyed. The utah pantages theater that the failures of this body is responsible for there's a an ordinance passed in 2012, a historic ordinance. A community preservation plan that governs this body that you need to follow that hasn't been followed so real fast. I know I only have a minute here. I can talk for an hour about this, but it says your city, this is our city and it's it's our business doesn't say this is developer city. We.

L

What are we having amir taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from developers and campaign donations and then trying to railroad through this ordinance? That has nothing to do with with affordable housing. It's just for the betterment of developers, shared housing, betters developers, the lack of parking, betters developers who's doing this study. By the way um you know if we want to talk about the problems of affordable housing, why is the city uh subsidizing luxury apartments like the pantages uh development right now, where heinz is building luxury studio apartments that won't affect affordable housing at all?

L

This needs to be completely just ended. This needs to go back to the drawing board this body, the city council, the mayor. This whole city needs to start building, um affordable housing with people in mind that actually.

C

L

Federal poverty levels and not atrocious.

C

Success. Thank you, mr valentine. Thank you.

B

C

B

More name, sorry, to interrupt you, um it's devon! W! If you see that card, they would like to speak as well devon. W.

C

And what were the other there's? I only found one.

B

C

B

Jody nelson and.

C

That one alex parcell okay, thank you! You're working.

D

On that go david, newland is next, then jansen, hayes and then landon farmer.

E

Howdy, my name is david newlin, I'm with wasatch attendance, united and I'm speaking in opposition to this proposal. It's clearly not designed for renters for ordinary working people for people who are just looking for housing. The way that you can tell that is by the frankly absurd um definition of affordable that is given in this. Eighty percent of ami is ridiculous. Translates to fifteen hundred dollars a month for rent.

E

If you ask any ordinary person, you know you could probably ask some of the people in this room whether 1500 a month is affordable in their eyes. They're going to tell you no they're just going to straight up. Tell you no 1500 is not affordable for an apartment um and, let's be clear. Apartment is sort of generous for some of the things that would be allowed under this proposal, namely sros right um frankly, some of the developers um uh who would be building these things have horses who live in better conditions than would be legal.

E

Under this proposal, sros shared housing without kitchens without bathrooms are frankly not acceptable, um and we definitely can't have that. So um there are ways that we can improve. This though it's not like everything is lost, we can. We can make improvements to this proposal, namely number one uh making the ami uh thirty percent limit, rather than eighty percent right, so that should be uh considered um affordable, also making 50 requirement for affordable housing, as opposed to the current 20 requirement.

E

That would be fantastic, great um closing down the loopholes that allow for sros in the first place would also be a fantastic idea and would greatly improve this proposal, and I would definitely want all of those things to happen before I would ever support something like this. So thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. um Yeah.

C

All right, thank you, mr newland.

D

Okay, jansen hayes landon farmer and then norman okay help me.

C

On 1200 east, I don't know right.

M

D

E

Right, my name is jameson from wasatch, tennis, united and I'm in opposition to this bill, because it's like fourteen thirteen hundred dollars for affordable housing when really it should be thirty percent of the air meeting income, which is around five hundred dollars, and it's sort of just a travesty that, like you, have to pay three times the amount for affordable housing than it would be like even like.

E

I don't know 10 years ago, it's pretty crazy how big the city is getting and since it's getting so big you know the density is gonna become you know, it's gonna become more and more dense, and this is a precedent mean set basically and that person is really going to be. You know. Are we going to pay 1400 a month like 80 percent of our income or pay 30 percent?

E

And with this you know new thing going through? I don't want to pay 1400 to like have a small micro apartment. I can't even use my own bathroom or my own kitchen, because I got to go into a common area.

E

So that's what I'm in opposition towards- and this is very important since it's going to be the next like decades. This is going to influence so many people's lives, and I think it should be built again. I think we should try again and that's about it. Thank you.

C

Thank you, mr hayes.

D

Landon, farmer, norman who lives on 1200 east and then alex purcell.

L

My name is landon farmer, I'm in the highland park neighborhood. So thank you for listening to everyone tonight. um I've got wholehearted support for the other concerns uh that were expressed by the highland park residents. Who've spoken before me, so I'm not gonna rehash the logistics and infrastructure concerns. I share those, but I wanted to look at this myself and say: is this going to meet the grand goals of the project?

L

Are we going to have affordable housing for people who need it, and I did my own research because I couldn't get answers at the various public meetings that we've done, that research, meaning the collective we and what I found is it's pretty much readily available and a headline from the washington post in 2019 says it all that the one issue every economist can agree is bad rent control because it never gets the water to the end of the row.

L

We've talked about the logistical problems with trying to enforce these rental price settings. We have no plan for it. It's going to be a huge nightmare to try and enforce, and it won't be fully effectively enforced and later, since it's bad will probably get changed later on and what happens?

L

Is you create a two-tiered rental system, super high rents that people can compete for and then you've got a body of low rents that people stay in because you don't have effective means testing of the renters who are in them, and so they may initially need them, and then they just stay, and so you create this system that doesn't actually help the people who are currently in need of the rentals. My other concern with this is, I asked: what is our cooperative relationship with surrounding communities, south salt lake mill, creek west valley city?

L

It feels like salt lake has drawn a fence around itself and we are trying to attract and house everyone who's coming to utah. I don't think we need to do that. I think this is a broader salt lake county, even bountiful issue of how are we all working to help the salt lake valley and the affordable housing?

L

Salt lake constantly takes on big infrastructure projects. The library, the delta center and things that the whole county enjoys at what shared price, um and I think this would be another way.

C

Thank you so much. Thank you for your comments, mr farmer,.

D

Norman young that lives on 12th east alex purcell and fianna.

C

Okay, norman we'll add that.

R

C

D

Theo brannon and then ben obasan.

E

Hi uh my name's alex purcell. uh I actually live in lone kin income housing right now over on uh liberty, metro apartments. um I just kind of want to highlight that. There's no real, I'm in support of this with a couple of different changes, such as changes to what is affordable along with expansion of those brackets and including looping up those rmos.

E

The the thing is is that I uh low income housing gave me a good stepping stone to at least get out of like a poverty level uh as it stands right now. uh The idea that this is readily available is laughable. I was put on a three-month waitlist to get an apartment. I make 26 an hour and I make three times the minimum wage here and uh rent is half of my paycheck.

E

My lease is going to be up in august and I'm probably going to be leaving because there's nowhere to live here. The idea that you know supply equals lower cost is laughable. I can walk up and drop down our streets right now. There are leasing signs out on every building. You can see the rent prices have been nothing but inflated since the pandemic. You say that this plan was proposed and created during a pandemic, uh it's a little late for that. So we need a little bit more.

E

uh We talk about community here. People had concerns about community, it's starving, it's dying. I went to a friend's house to hang out and they can't afford rent at all for a one bedroom. uh They are a waitress at your local, like diner, and you know what we had to eat. We had a tortilla with. I can't believe it's not butter sprayed on both sides fried in a pan, because that's all they can afford to eat.

E

This is salt lake. This is a place of community. Why are we leaving so many people out to starve? And if you have problems about crime, low-income housing has been shown to reduce homelessness, reduce crime produce, safer neighborhoods denser areas are more energy efficient, more efficient on infrastructure, easier to heat.

E

um Honestly, the only bad thing about this bill is, it needs a couple. Loopholes tied up needs the definition. That's.

C

Time and expenses. Thank you, mr purcell, for your comments.

B

Madam chair, could you marine? Could you make sure to speak in your microphone? It's it's hard to hear in that um in the offside room.

C

The vice chair, uh yes, both of us, I was.

B

Just trying to get both of your attention so, okay, thank you.

D

Okay, thea brannon ben overson, dennon willie.

P

Hi um I'm theo brennan. I live in sugar house and I want to thank you all for offering yourselves up to such difficult and dreadfully complex problems. I also want to thank the planning commission staff for trying to figure out how to implement such an aspirational goal.

P

I think salt lake is basically changing dramatically and there's not a whole lot that we can do about it. At this point, I do think that this plan is is too gargantuan.

P

It's trying to do too much at once. There's too many myriad details that everyone has discussed and made comments about that have not been given full consideration, and I was going to suggest pilot programs, but basically the whole thing needs to be just paired down incredibly, and maybe one section of it needs to be pursued since there's no proof anywhere that that this is going to work and as far as enforcement, we know that that's not going to be funded, and it's not enough people to do it.

P

So please don't try to bend yourself into pretzels figuring out how to do this. I caution you to be aware of the unforeseen and unintended consequences that will last a long time. Thank you.

C

Thank you, miss brennan.

D

Okay ben overson, janine willie and then brooks.

L

Hello, my name is ben obison. I live in the 15th and 15th area in salt lake, um I'm here in behalf of my family and a few other neighbors we came together. um We oppose this initiative and really appreciate the city council and the planning commission trying to solve a big problem. That's going to be a problem for my kids and a lot of my family to come as well. Affordable housing is not going to be an issue that that we can solve um in the near term.

L

uh My main concern about this is uh we. We live in a beautiful neighborhood that has been planned um with the city plan that was well thought out with you know, 20 or 20, or more zones. That is very complex, um zoning and planning.

L

You know behemoth that we all have to go through uh this kind of sidesteps that and all the work that everybody did the last 50 years to create this beautiful city is kind of thrown out the window, and you say: hey: this doesn't have value anymore.

L

We don't need to go through the regular process of just making a plan that the city thinks is a good idea.

L

Additionally, this would encourage developers to build low quality product. We don't need to do that. We should encourage developers to build high quality product products that uplifts the city that uplifts the areas that we consider need uplifting and not destroys value in areas. We don't think need uplifting, and I just strongly oppose this. I don't feel like this benefits anybody, except for real estate developers. Thank you.

C

Thank you, miss jefferson,.

D

Okay, deneen willie brooks and then olin webster.

Q

uh Hi, my name is devin, um so I want to.

L

Echo, what.

Q

Other members of wasatch attendance unit united, have said that the proposed affordability rate is ridiculous.

L

I don't know if you've spoken to a person in this city, a single one if you've left your neighborhoods or talked to them ever, but I I make twenty six dollars an hour and the idea that I could afford this. Eighty percent of about fifteen hundred, it's ridiculous. Who is this city for if this doesn't work for people like me? Who is it for ask your average working person if they can afford that? Who is this? For who do you want to live in this city? Because it's certainly not the people who already live here?

L

If you want them to leave, say it if you want them to be supplanted by tech, weirdos from san francisco, say it? If you don't want us here say it clarify the relationship.

Q

The hostile relationship that you have to working class people in this city, because you clearly don't want us.

L

So either fix it by amending this, as we have provided um and making it 500 a month and banning sros, because we won't go back to living like our ancestors did like rats, we're not going to live that way, and we fully reject this fix it. Thank you. Thank you.

M

D

That's all I have is brooks, then olin webster, then melissa, hunt.

E

Hello, my name is brooks I'm with wasatch, shannon united. I feel like a lot of the people in my org. The organization I'm in have already done justice to the absolute ineptitude that this policy offers us in terms of actually affordable housing. So I don't want to you know, continually continually hammer a nail, that's already set and done.

E

I do want to focus on, though, on the concept that uh creating more housing supply will uh sufficiently like uh lower the cost, because in actuality, that's not true, because the primary drive in terms of the rental increases is landlords closing the rent gap, which means to say that it is their primary interest to get as much money as get as much money as they can out of the least like per square footage as possible right.

E

It is always in a landlord's immediate interest to try to get as much rent as possible, that is them closing the rent gap. That is why an actual policy that would force rent control is something that would be necessary to even begin to try to curb this crisis, and it's also exactly why it's not even on the table for y'all.

E

That said, I think, there's a couple more things we need to understand is that there is no indication that any reduction in rent costs would be substantial due to this, especially given the policies and the the 80 ami for 20 of the units or whatever. It was specifically, moreover, to that there is no city in the world that has ever reversed successfully the trend of increasing prices by increasing the housing supply. Only that is not real. That is a neoliberal capitalist fiction.

E

There is nothing that you are putting on the table here that is actually in the interest of working people and we see through it, and we will make sure that everybody else sees through it too. I re yield my time. Thank you all right. Thank you.

M

D

Webster melissa hunt and then I have jody who I don't know if she wants to speak or not, she lives on south valley. Plaza, you do okay, so you will be you're in the hole.

C

Go ahead, please.

O

Okay, for the record, my name is jim webster. I don't write very well, um I'm a land planning consultant and I work with a lot of developers and have in utah for well ever since the 70s- and this is a very naive ordinance and it is so full of loopholes.

O

uh It's like manna from heaven for a developer. I don't know who the developers are that are more or less in bed with this administration how it works.

O

But I do know that if I were representing a developer, I would love this ordinance. It's very, very open-ended and very unfortunate. You know the issue of enforcement has come up a number of times. I realized most recently that the city is charged with the enforcement of the county's noise ordinance and any of you who have lived in yale crest, I'm the vice chair of yale, crest, neighborhood council.

O

By the way, any of you who have driven by the university in the last two weeks and listen to the super cross or the monster jam will know that there is a terrible if absolutely ineffectual, level of enforcement of the county's noise ordinance, which was passed on to the city. I can only imagine what sort of enforcement will be involved and at what level it will be successful if this ordinance goes through. Thank you.

C

Thank you, mr webster.

D

Okay, we have melissa, hunt, jody and tianjin.

K

I'm melissa hunt and for the record this bill is sickening. I currently am one of those stuck below the poverty rate. My daughter and myself are in the homeless, shelter because we cannot find affordable housing.

K

We have been there over a year now we have lost two housing vouchers, because affordable housing is not out there. Billy moore is not going to solve the problem. It's going to make it worse. It is not going to solve. It is going to make it a renter's mark and not a landlord's market. Not a renter's market build more. We can spend more, we can charge more.

K

I can't afford 1200 a month for rent.

K

I work. Luckily, I don't have to pay child care because my mom takes care of my daughter. I work I'm a single mom, I got told well. If I kept my legs closed, I wouldn't be in that situation.

K

Her dad was in the picture at first.

K

This needs to be some. We need to put a gap onto the rent, make these landlords take accountability for this. They have these low income housing. They don't have people in there with low income. They are charging still 12 1400 a month. How is that affordable? They have people in there who are making twice that three times 10 times that amount in these and can afford that or they're putting five six families into one apartment, so they can make that rent.

K

How is this going to solve? How is this destroying somebody's home? How is that going to fix it?

K

How is it going to fix it? You're going to take and you're going to.

C

Have this time, ms hunt, thank you.

D

Okay, we have jody, then tianjin, l and then matt, thiessen, thesa t-h-I-e-s-e.

O

Hello, I talked to a lady yesterday. Oh would.

C

You please state your name for the record and then.

O

Cody nelson.

C

O

I talked to a lady yesterday at the city council, and I'm here today and I was just gonna state, my I suffer from mental illness and I would just like to encourage housing for mentally ill, and I realized that it's more of a you know, between money and not money but uh anyway, who have discovered having this illness younger or elder, to be eventually able to be on their own. Struggling with mental illness is very disabling.

O

Try with housing for simple procedure for these people stories are everywhere good and difficult to explain each case. To help us see the outcome of a variety of very strong individuals take care in knowing how we can serve those who suffer yet the strength from where we as people significantly want to prosper in society.

O

I have been given medicine for this illness consistently over thirty years. Some work, some don't deciding what medication listening to the receiver stressful on both parties. Finally, after years, slowly patiently making sure I faithfully took the medicine the best, I could feel learning to try to cope with the kind of or form I was and do take. I have also come so far in the amount of time suited for myself. This illness has been has given me great progress after searching out number of ways to fight through times of struggle.

C

Thank you miss nelson. I.

O

Just go or do I wait for.

C

You are free to leave or you can remain and listen to the rest of them. Thank you. Miss nelson.

D

Okay, tianjin bell: nobody going once twice: okay, matt, these very good. Thank you, then megan kopecky and then lynn schwartz go ahead.

L

Hey so uh my name is matt thies, I'm an associate professor in the family, preventive medicine at the university of utah, but I'm here as a as a private citizen, there's been a lot of really great things that have been said about the concerns.

L

There's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot of challenges. Here I come from a public health standpoint and there's not the underlying aspect of this being affordable housing, as you've heard just isn't, doesn't fit the bill, but there's also issues with public safety. There's issues with infrastructure.

L

It's it. It just seems like it's an underdeveloped idea and plan to try and fix something that really does need to be solved in the planning and in the affordable housing aspect.

L

What I also wanted to bring up is the fact that this it seems like it's being proposed as a one-size-fits-all solution and that isn't going. I I think that that's also a problem that needs to be addressed and really tailored to specific needs in specific areas and neighborhoods, instead of just a broad brush aspect and going from there. So thank you very much for your time. Thank.

C

You, mr thief:.

D

Megan kopecky, then lynn, schwartz and brian burnett, okay,.

M

I just have a few comments to make. I surveyed my name.

C

Just say your um name for the record: can.

M

You hear me: okay, I surveyed my neighbors 93 responded. 98.9 oppose this. One is not sure so that's clear tonight by all the comments that we are not in favor of this bill from any many different aspects of the city.

M

um I'd also like to point out that salt lake city was just ranked as one of the top most dangerous cities according to u.s newsweek. I don't know if anyone has seen that um is it the density problem. Is it just? I think, there's concerning, I think it's related.

M

The hinckley institute came out with a report that over 140 000 units are being built and will be finished in a couple of years. Once all of those units are finished, we will triple our vacancy rate. We will be around three percent up to almost six percent, so is there really? I mean, obviously with the what the tenants that are here talking about, that they can't find affordable housing. It doesn't seem like stock is the problem because we already have so much vacancy.

M

I'm also concerned about some of the city, planning's public comments on twitter and other areas, they're calling neighbors. You know dumb lack expertise and we're the ones that are actually going to take the burden. I don't think that's right. Thank you.

C

Thank you, miss kapecki.

D

Lynn, schwartz brian burnett and then jason barlow. I.

K

Am lynne schwartz? I have already submitted my comments on the original proposal, so I will speak to the changes or clarifications proposed in the staff report, which was posted last friday. The proposal to allow existing illegal in-house adus to be legalized is a good idea. This is contingent on them. Meeting safety codes a fund to help them bring the units up to safety codes would be a good idea.

K

The proposal to remove the reduction of side and rear yard setbacks in single and two family zones and to increase the setbacks now required for buildings with more than two units is essential. It is crucial to mitigate negative impacts of increased density on neighboring adjacent properties as much as possible. There was concern about the uncertainty of the continuation of high frequency transit routes. The solution of removing this limit to allow increased density and decreased parking requirements in all areas of the city is probably the worst solution possible.

K

You need to come up with something more cognizant of the totally foreseeable parking chaos that will ensue, especially with three to four unit projects. The idea that a pilot program will impact chosen areas disproportionately is precisely the point of a pilot program. You want to see what will happen if policies are enacted. The fact that you are clearly concerned about negative impact says it all: what is good duplexes and two family houses is not new and what is new is not good.

C

Hey, thank you then,.

D

Brian burnett.

C

Oh okay, oh okay, thanks adrian thank.

M

D

Barlow then paul flood and then amy hawkins, good.

B

Evening, my name is jason barlow. I live in the foothills sunnyside neighborhood. I appreciate your time this evening.

L

I'm here to speak in opposition of this proposal. Many tonight have spoken about the logistical and enforcement deficiencies of this proposal. I agree with those concerns, as I've read.

S

This proposal, I can only conclude that this is a.

L

Short-Sighted and naive effort to solve the affordable housing challenge that we as a city face this proposal neither adequately addresses affordable housing nor uplifts the communities in need of uplifting, but it does carry the real potential of damaging neighborhoods that have historically made salt lake city a great place to live. Thank you.

C

Thank you, mr barlow.

D

Paul flood jen colby jan lundqvist.

C

Okay, you know paul moving on all.

D

Going once gone gone, jen colby, then jan lindquist and chad whitaker ready.

J

Yeah jen colby district 4.. These are my personal comments, um affordability, clearly matters and the proposal as written won't fix this. How did we get here, 50 years of neoliberal economic policy in this country that fully abandoned public housing that was already plagued by under investment and racism, and that has left us vulnerable to market shocks?

J

If we don't remember what happened in 2008, 2009 or more recently, we are in trouble um density and more market rate supply alone does not guarantee affordability as envision utah's 2020 housing report notes, look at the housing costs in downtown salt lake city or sugar house, which are two of the densest areas in the state.

J

Most of the new multi-family housing complexes are designed and marketed as luxury apartments that don't even pretend to be affordable. Unquote. The past decade was a missed opportunity for inclusionary zoning here and stronger affordability strategies.

J

Those were mostly in tsa zones, which, from my own personal analysis as a graduate student, are completely underperforming based on those incentives we're just doubling down here. If you go forward jimwood products projects, indeed, that market rate multifamily complexes are going to be overbuilt. Redfin reports that real estate investors have been buying up 20 to 25 percent of homes in major markets. This overlay fails to take land, price, inflation and financial speculation into account. There are numerous other issues. Many noted in the staff report planned development should remain.

J

It's a mistake to tie zoning to uta's bus lines. Lack of bus service shows where the city is lacking density, not the other way around. The city is still designed as car dependent and transportation needs to get its act together and implement sustainable safety. So we stop complaining about traffic and parking. The city lacks effective tracking. We fail to preserve exis, uh naturally, affordable housing and existing structures and the antipathy to historic preservation is appalling. We have numerous unit, legalized historic properties that are six plexes. That's time. Thank you and.

C

J

Many other solutions. Thank you. Thank you.

C

D

Okay, jan lundqvist, then chad, whitaker, then john ribbons.

K

Hi, I'm jan lundqvist, and we live in the highland park neighborhood and we strongly oppose the overlay project or proposal infrastructure issues in our neighborhood have already been addressed, but the one thing that hasn't, I think, is that salt lake has a lack of single family homes for those who want to buy them, and I don't understand why you would knock down single-family homes to make room for a four-plex with shared bathrooms and a shared kitchen.

K

It sounds horrific. The other thing is that we already have so much high density housing around us. You have sugar house with sugar. Mod highland drive has huge buildings going up. The brickyard is now surrounded by condos or apartments.

K

2100, east and 2100 south has some huge thing going up on the corner.

K

K

More high density, why aren't these being more made more affordable sugar month when it first went up? I thought it was a hotel and then they put another one in front of it. So it's upsetting. We've lived in the neighborhood for 40 years.

K

I have people on my black who grew up in this neighborhood and then took over their parents house, which is something we'd like for one of our children.

C

That's time, thank you. Miss lemquist.

D

Chad whitaker john ribbons and then crystal rudd.

L

Hello, I'm chad whitaker, I'm homeowner in the sunnyside neighborhood. um I think it's clear from your own website that this is a developer focused initiative, a developer handout homes, don't operate the same way as cars, and it's appalling that one of your commission members made that comparison.

L

Cars, depreciate and value homes appreciate, which means rent will always go up. I know people in vancouver canada, who make up to half a million dollars who cannot afford to live there despite overwhelming supply.

L

I'm appalled that you would attack my neighborhood after you already ruined sugar house when you have plenty of city land to build on assuming that supply and demand actually worked. In this scenario, you have no teeth to enforce any rent prices, nothing as home prices rise. You always will have rent increase, because that's the economic incentive that we are surrounded by and in state of utah, with no rent control laws. The city has no way to enforce any of this, so I oppose this proposal wholeheartedly.

L

C

D

John ribbons, then crystal rudds, then jared stoddard.

L

Hi, my name is john ribbons. I'm with wasatch tenants, united, um I think. Like another one of our members said. Some points have been hammered home. There's some points that I want to make sure get hammered home. Further. Increasing housing stock does not inherently drive down the price. You can see this in multiple cities. There is no precedent where you deregulate housing and you deregulate the ability for developers to build housing, and you see rent fall.

L

The one example you might point to might be: minneapolis minneapolis has city-wide inclusionary zoning, so denser housing and more housing means inherently more affordable. Housing will get made, there's not an instance where you see a city increasing its housing stock and that inherently lowering the rent, so that needs to be done away with 1400 a month is not affordable. You should not be giving landlords zoning incentives and allowing them to break zoning laws, or you know, circumvent them, whatever you'd call it in order to encourage them to do this or sros. For that matter.

L

We've been very clear on that and, lastly, something I want to touch on enforcement. We can afford to send cops to every corner who harass homeless people. We can afford all kinds of things we as far as enforcement goes. They have the downtown alliance. Has dozens of people on the streets bothering homeless people telling them about? Oh did you know, there's a homeless, shelter, you're homeless, you know, there's a homeless shelter and then they tell the cops and the cops will go there and kick them out.

L

How much money do we spend on that and how much money could be saved if we had affordable housing for these people to live in? That is what I think we need to drive home. Affordable housing will save the city more money, long-term and enforcement of affordable housing is absolutely something you would easily again like something with uh the airbnb's. You could easily get neighbors to tell the city. Oh hey, there's a landlord here, that's not renting it or hey. uh There's a you know you could there's lots of cities.

L

Kansas city just established legal help for tenants from the city level where, if a landlord is breaking the law, the city will represent them. There's a lot of options that aren't even being considered here, um and I think that this this proposal as it stands, is totally unacceptable and just needs to be brought back to the drawing board. Thank you.

C

Thank you. Okay. Next.

D

Crystal rudds, then jared stoddard and then david berg.

M

Trying to start my timer uh good evening, my name is crystal rudds. Thank you for your time and thank you for this open hearing. I am speaking in solidarity with the wasatch tenets united group and with individuals labeled as cost burdened in the 63-page report that I read they are mentioned four times.

M

I am an assistant professor of english, at the university of utah, and I moved from salt lake city because my rent was too high. My previous apartment rent is currently higher than my mortgage and I'm speaking as a privileged homeowner, because I think that's who this affordable incentives proposal is, is targeted towards right. We want a diverse middle class population to move to salt lake city, but I'm also speaking as a black woman living in salt lake city, because those at 30 percent, 40, ami and below disproportionately look like me right.

M

Lower income communities are made up of people of color the issue I have with this. This proposal is the definition of affordable. I think it is highly distorted. I think the language of the proposal is entirely too loose. If you have incentives that are at or below, that leaves a lot of room for developers to only build for those at the the target income that they want to. um You know uh attract, um and this leaves room and promotes the existing rents in the area being raised.

M

I also want to just speak to the dichotomy that I hear between homeowners and renters. I was a renter in chicago which is much more dense, much more dangerous salt lake city than our present community and I've rented for over a decade. So renting and apartments do not automatically attract crime, low income or no income is what attracts desperation and crime. That's.

C

M

Thank you very much.

D

Okay, we have jared stoddard, then david berg, then chris curran.

N

Jared stoddard hillside, uh I'm nobody of note, but I for one would like to thank the planning commission. Thank you for your priorities, despite having not one but two four-way intersections within 100 feet of my home that have been decades without a stop or yield, you divine our real need: greater population density.

N

Thank you for your vision. It takes grit and lots of help from the good idea fairy to drive a solution to a non-problem.

N

There are not thousands of future residents huddled outside the chamber of commerce begging, please it's cold outside and we've nowhere to play fortnight.

N

Thank you for the privilege, I'm honored that my own tax dollars can be used to conceive research, design and market a policy to destroy our home values. The color flyer and euphemisms have convinced me that this is some somebody's best interest, but not ours, and yet we bear the burden.

N

Thank you for your fight against the suburbs. I say we need to eradicate all manicured lawns fruit, trees and the screeching of children at play. What we need instead is more concrete and cars and people who really don't care what you do and who don't have to miss a daughter's lacrosse game to attend a meeting like this.

N

Thank you for perspective. I mistakenly thought that 30-plus years of 16-hour days to own a home in a quaint and stable neighborhood was an american dream. I'm ashamed for my presumption and selfishness, and, finally, thank you for your loyalty. After fighting off annexation by mill creek, you reward us with a shrug.

N

D

David berg, chris karen and then jan lundqvist,.

N

Thank you for this hearing appreciate listening to the words of the community and what we really think of this vlog proposal.

N

My name is david berg, I'm a resident of city council district, three boy. This is low, I'm also a greater avenues: community council board member and for my job, I'm a community health care worker with our own house population, though I speak on behalf of neither of those I speak for myself.

N

um Sorry, I wrote down my notes. I know I see the results of our current misguided city policies daily. I see residents that were evicted from truly and actually affordable housing daily. I see those evicted from the carlton, the annex, la france and so many others that were evicted from that were made homeless um by rda, backed projects that serve only to engross that serve to only enrich in big developers.

N

Let's see the current proposal will not provide any truly affordable. Housing will only have the opposite effect: raising housing prices for all, while further lining the wallets of big developers, including our current mayor's own family.

N

We need more regulations on developers and their campaign contributions, not less.

N

If you break down the actual numbers that misleading numbers, I might say of this trojan horse, you see that the opposite, it's the opposite of affordable, eighty percent of ami, which of course, that's ami for a family of four- that's not talked about much despite that's the ami of family of four, despite that, most of these apartments are studios and one-bedroom apartments.

N

C

N

Its face that's time.

C

N

Thank you anyway. The monthly income is two thousand. The monthly rents are two thousand forty nine dollars. Thank you. How many of you can afford that housing.

C

N

You're not struggling for housing you're, not on the street. Mr.

C

Burke that's time. Thank you appreciate it.

D

Chris, karen and then jan lundqvist hi.

M

My name is christina carver chris carver and I have lived in sugar house for 22 years in the past. In the recent years there has been many apartments built mega apartments built everywhere in sugar house, and now they are trying to do that into our neighborhoods.

M

You know my question, for you is how many more people are you trying to shove into sugar house having so many empty lots everywhere? Go down, 900 west, empty lots, white sugar house, you know, and my other question for you is: what can we do to make you say no to the developers and we will do it.

M

That's everything. Thank you.

D

uh Jan lundqvist.

B

I think she already spoke.

D

Did she okay, go on.

C

Okay, so we have um we're out of cards of people that wish to spell well, no we're not. Okay, we've got a few more.

D

Kristen arnhem.

D

Kristen arnhem, okay, holden holloway.

D

These two don't wish to speak. Okay, this one doesn't say he's.

C

Not here, okay, so we have no more cards of people who have indicated they wish to speak. I have a number of cards that I will read into the record of people who indicated they did not wish to speak but will put their comments in the record. So monica hilding has a card in opposition.

C

She says: stop catering to developers. They are only interested in making a profit. There is so much speculation, so many single-family homes are being rented as airbnbs. These people don't even live in salt lake. They don't care about our neighborhoods. There needs to be enforcement to control the speculation paul misaka in opposition. This proposal falls so far short of the true needs of the people of the city change, 80 percent ami to 30 ami. Then we would be closer back to the drawing board norman yonker in opposition.

C

uh He did wish to speak, but he didn't come when he was called so we'll read it in to the record. Historic neighborhoods should be protected from development that would destroy them, jessica, eichbauer, in opposition. I cannot afford to pay this much rent and if you approve this, it will make it okay for all the other landlords to raise rent. I am a single parent and I live in this area because of the great schools there are rlom in opposition. Affordable housing should be affordable.

C

This proposal is not sufficient in supporting salt lake city's working class 80 ami for housing is unacceptable, and this would further perpetuate salt lake city's housing crisis. Alan cunningham in opposition. I agree that we have a housing problem. The proposed change is not the right solution. This would be harmful to the character of the neighborhoods barb schultz. In opposition, no comments, phyllis s in opposition, no rezoning, please leanne welch burnett. I hope I pronounced that right in opposition. I am not in favor of changing our single family neighborhood to allow fourplexes cottages etc.

C

I will not. It will not improve our neighborhood due to extra cars, tight setbacks and will only benefit building developers, not homeowners. Amanda andreas in opposition, please address extremely narrow streets in highland park and no parking space proposed jessica hernandez in support, affordable housing is a necessity. I have read some people's worries about parking school children desirability.

C

This is a great location for affordable housing, because public transportation is already in place and is close to many work, locations and shopping. It is a walkable area. We live in condos and when families like ours grow, they move out of the area because they cannot afford to buy in the area. Other people are concerned about the size of housing, views, yards side, views and yard size. There are currently single-family homes, newly built which do not fit under this criteria.

C

Dannon rampton uh in support, I support. Well, he didn't mark that here's his comments. I support incentivizing, affordable housing, it's necessary to keep salt lake city a thriving, diverse place, not just a monoculture only upper class people can afford. I just want to make sure that developers aren't given a free pass to do whatever they want, simply by including affordable options we need. We just need to balance incentives with enough oversight to see that development is done in a responsible and sustainable way.

C

So we're not stuck with problems a decade from now when incentives have run out or can't be enforced, and the developers have moved on and can't be held, responsible marry, catherine yonker in opposition. There are so many apartments in sugar house. This seems very unnecessary. This will affect homeowners values of their home. Susan olson writes the city needs to educate the public about the restrictions the state legislature puts on cities, options the generation gap.

C

Yes, seen in the comments is a heartbreaking. They haves and haves. Not the city-state cannot control people moving here. I do think the most valid criticism is the lack of evidence from other cities about whether such zoning tweaks achieve the goal. Tian jin, l, just in opposition paul flood, writes concerned about parking rules associated with initiative proposal only requires one parking spot per unit. This is insufficient, particularly for three to four unit properties, be realistic.

C

Most people own a car and most resident most residents of these multiple unit properties will wind up parking on the street. This will be a major impact to adjacent property owners who use on-street parking for periodic tasks. For example, waste cans, weekly use. The initiative proposal should be modified to require a minimum of two off-street parking spots for each unit, holden hallway in opposition.

C

The proposed zoning plan is ineffective with issues such as affordable housing, parking and infrastructure. How can we get back to a housing economy that can support our younger demographics to help build wealth? What about effective public transportation?

C

Abby minkler in opposition highland park has no infrastructure for this project. Power. Water sewer, parking street widths are all outdated. We don't want this project. Greedy developers need to go elsewhere. I echo the sentiments of every speaker tonight who oppose this rezoning plan, not in my neighborhood kirsten arnhem in opposition cap rent or control quit aligning developers pockets.

C

That concludes who we have cards for, but I will uh madam.

B

Sure I do we did receive a few emails.

C

Okay, that's what I was just going to ask all right: go ahead.

B

And read those questions, um this is an email from rick gregory, to whom it may concern as a resident can.

C

You speak into the region. Sorry about that.

B

As a resident homeowner in the foothills sunnyside neighborhood, I have a major concerns about the proposal. In particular, the changes to setbacks and building height solar access, placing 30-foot high boxes closer to the property line, could negatively affect many homes of solar panels. A 30-foot building were created, shadows, 60, foot long at the winter solstice in salt lake city. My property is less than 60 feet wide and the yard would mean shadow just about all winter. Even panels 15 feet above the ground like a first floor.

B

Roof would be shaded unless they were more than 30 feet from the building. This is not acceptable.

B

The next email is from heidi middleton when considering affordable housing initiatives. It is imperative that we tackle the issue of homes being snatched up for short-term rentals. Airbnbs are strangling our neighborhood. We've had almost no single-family homes for sale over the last two years. Long-Term renters are being evicted and schools being evaluated for closure, because what used to be neighborhood full of kids is now a ghost town. Our neighborhood has an estimated 160 of these rentals just listed on airbnb that removes a significant stock of housing from the market for purchase or rental.

B

We need stronger laws and stronger enforcement.

B

The next one's from heidi belka, I'm a homeowner who bought my home in a residential neighborhood 10 years ago, I'm now surrounded by airbnbs on all sides. I live at 235, west reed avenue, 84103 I've. I've had to report these airbnb to the city, so the property could comply with the city ordinance of obtaining a license and also so they would comply with the minimum 30 night, short-term rental ordinance. They largely skirted around this law, reverting to two-day minimums when they thought they weren't being watched.

B

It is a nightmare for my family to this many strangers coming and going. I purchased my home in residential, uh yet the city issues licenses to these quote hotels and then the city fails, have adequate process for enforcement of compliance.

B

I have friends neighbors and co-workers who are being evicted from their homes, so the landlords can turn their property into airbnbs and the like. If you want to talk about affordable housing, you have to address the illegal vacation, rentals and the process to hold them accountable for the more creatine ordnance, much like oahu's, 90-day minimum our or simply outlaw these businesses in our neighborhood. We have an infestation in west capitol hill in the marmalade areas there are over 160 legal airbnb's.

B

This does not include other vacation rental sites, and I think, lastly, it's from adam center to many of us transplants now lucky enough to call you to home. It is a very young state with a short history and a small population compared to much of the country. There are extremely few residential areas in the state with any sort of historical significance or discernible character. Perhaps us quote: outsiders can see these rare locations much easier than those requesting the zoning changes.

B

I am sure, however, regardless of uh night being naive, everyone living in these neighborhoods recognizes how important they are for the state. What does existing space in the city and county are cookie cutter, neighborhoods, unfathomably, wide streets, surrounded by dilapidated commercial industrial, real estate, all close to transit downtown.

B

So why on earth are zoning changes being proposed to destroy one of utah's largest central neighborhoods and homes, which are already overcrowded with small streets and difficult parking when such better options exist instead of rezoning, some of the most historic, cohesive, desired, crowded and expensive real estate in the valley?

B

With the end result, team end result of destroying its charm and value, perhaps focus on focusing on areas of city and disrepair with vacant commercial industrial space with plenty of room to house, both people and their vehicle, while still being closer to public transit in downtown, is a more intelligent route. I implore the commission to immediately remove neighborhoods found on the national register of historic places from these new zoning changes.

B

If not, then all of your crest needs to be added to the local historic districts beyond its few smaller subsections along harvard a small number of families that this new zealand would accommodate, would have a large and negative impact on these neighborhoods, while not even putting a dent on the true numbers of the housing crisis, which we now find ourselves build up. The undeveloped or underutilized real estate with inventory that actually makes a difference instead of destroying the long-standing cohesive neighborhoods of the peak of their appeal.

B

Do not ruin yield crest, do not ruin historic, unique neighborhoods, because they're once they're gone, you'll, never get them back. Utah has precious little character left to lose. I think that's it.

C

Okay, you made that last one under two minutes: good job.

C

Okay, uh with that we have no more cards, we have no more emails that have come in all right. I will close the public comment period and bring it back to the commission. This is the time for our discussion with sarah, but first of all, sarah I'd like to give you an opportunity. If there were anything that was brought up, that you really want to address first, um I know you were taking notes, but if you feel like you just want to enter to a discussion, let me know.

H

There's nothing that I wanted.

C

H

Up at this point,.

C

Okay, so there weren't a lot of questions that really came up um in in those public comments, which is fine, but I did write down a few things that I feel that I heard that I would like you to clarify for the record, um because I think they were not not correct, but I want to hear it from you. So um are there tax breaks for developers in this.

H

The zoning amendments themselves do not have tax. The zoning amendments themselves do not have tax breaks written in them.

C

And then I I think that it might be helpful too, if you kind of clarify how the city defines like low, mid and high density, because that was a term that was thrown about talking about fourplexes, which I think we just needed on the record for the public. What how the city looks at those things.

H

Low middle and high density uh speak.

C

Up please sure.

H

So I think that a technical definition- um that's worth mentioning that's in the zoning ordinance right now- is that a multi-family dwelling is three or four three or more units. What the one other definitions that are proposed to be added are for three family dwellings and four family dwellings.

H

um Guessing that's not exactly what you're wanting me to get into, but those are some definitions that are proposed or added, but I think um we have.

H

I think we wanted me to talk more about different kinds of residential districts and what those densities are.

H

So it's kind of different areas, different master plans, I think, have different densities that they as kind of a described each type of residential area, whether it's a low density, a mid speaker, mid kind of medium density or high density.

H

um I think that what this is proposing is is to add some kind of small, incremental density to those low density areas. um I don't think that I don't think that, in terms of dwelling units per acre or the quantity of units, it would change those low density areas to be high density. It would be kind of an incremental increase in density with those townhouse or potentially the three or four plex units.

C

Okay and then we heard a lot about loopholes, I'm not really sure what they meant. Have you been getting public comments that have identified exactly in this proposal, what they consider to be a loophole.

H

I am not aware of public comments that have pointed out specific loopholes uh as far as things to be removed or eliminated.

C

Okay, I'm going to open it up to the commission to have a discussion and ask talk to sarah about certain things and let's come up with some issues that we would like her to look at revising.

C

Okay, I'll start, um I definitely uh have a strong appreciation for the uh the comments that we received. That 80 ami is just way too high. We should be if, if we're going to be taking on an affordable housing overlay, we should really be a little bit more bold than that, um and I also agree with the sentiment to look at increasing it from 20 percent.

C

I don't again it's a matter of being bold and I don't know that we would accomplish the type of impact that we're hoping to across the board of people who live in the city, which is all of us right. We live here, and so I would really like you to consider increasing both the or decreasing the ami and increasing the number of the percentage of required um percentage of the of the development.

C

um I also want you to look at the possibility of including these incentives um for housing vouchers, so that is one thing that we um we know that we have a struggling population, not just people like say in the homeless shelters, but also with the ywca of battered women who have a lot of kids or well. It doesn't matter how many kids they have, but they get these housing vouchers and they expire, because they can't find housing that will accept them.

C

And so I would like you to look at including incentives that somehow incorporate the their acceptance of housing vouchers.

H

Incentivize potentially incentivizing, including housing vouchers potentially incentivizing, including how housing.

C

H

C

Yes, I think we need to spell that one out, because they do kind of fall under the radar. And then we have a huge population of need that have housing vouchers that they've been given, mostly through the federal government subsidies, but nobody's accepting them, and then they expire and then they're back to square one. And so I would like um the housing overlay to consider how we could incentivize those acceptance.

K

But is that really a land use issue? I guess that's where I'm struggling with some of these these challenges and and to me that's one of the the overall challenges with this ordinance is. We seem to be merging what would be a housing program with land use sure, and I and I have a problem with the deed restrictions as our only way of enforcing this, and as the only carrot is you know some of these um density bonuses.

K

I I think we need to look at what you know. If you want to look at where cities are doing this like look at park, city they've got a whole housing, affordability and workforce housing program, it's all managed by deed restriction. It can be really difficult and cumbersome to work with.

J

I I agree 100, that it might not be a land use issue, but I've heard other places that the housing voucher is a problem as well, and I think the fact we heard this tonight I was very moved by her testimony and I think the city can do something about it. I don't know whether we, my understanding is in utah. You have to opt in to the program as a landlord. That's and you there's a certification process, and so I don't know whether the city can work with utah housing corp.

J

That would be what my hope is that if the city- and it might not be the planning division, but it might be some other area of city government that works with utah housing corp, which administers the vouchers because yeah this is federal money and to me vouchers, are the best way of addressing affordability, um and so I echo kind of amy's. Again I don't know if it's planning staff- and I agree- it's probably not a planning staff, but it is something the city can do. Working with utah housing, corp.

C

Yeah, I would just hope that these are ideas that you can explore and certainly come back when the next meeting and let us know that that is just a no-go or what what those things are to explain that to us. So I'm just throwing out considerations for you.

I

Yeah, so um I think there are a lot of things in this that I could go along with pretty easily, and I would we didn't hear a lot of pushback on from that, and I think we ought to identify those. So we can sort of set those aside for a second and see if the, if the commission also agrees with those so that they can that this is something the planning staff could think more about.

I

um We had a lot of pushback on single and two family um additional housing types, and so I think that section needs some better reworking more examples, more visual ideas, a better um sense of how and where this would be. Okay, because I think that um there was, um like, I said, a lot of pushback on that from both um from all kinds all sides of the question all of the neighborhoods actually were pushing back on that one and I think that's a difficult one.

I

However, things like the getting rid of the minimum lot size for rmf 30, rmf, 35, rmf, 45, rmf 75.

I

I think this is something that has actually held back some things from being done and my experience on the planning commission for, however long I've been here five six years. um These are occasionally things that come before us that I think if there were, if there were a lot more flexibility in that arena, we it's it's a pretty easy thing to do.

I

I'm only concerned that it would make small really tiny units and as long as we have some kind of minimum unit size, I think we'll be okay on that one, adding different housing types to the cb district, the cc district, the cg district institutional zoning districts, seems to me to also be a no-brainer, especially and and if those have the affordability requirements, um the zoning districts there where there might be- uh or we might have administrative design, review or additional building height and in sort of passover, public review and planning commission review.

I

I have a little difficulty with that, but I would like to have a little bit more information about how often those are actually turned down at the planning commission or modified significantly through planning commission, because my sense is that there's actually not a lot of times where there's a huge effect that having a public review has on those projects.

I

And I'm sympathetic to people who say well the public's not getting any any way to talk about this and and the same thing with the plant development process, the loss of the street frontage. I mean how many of those do we see where I think we get two of them tonight later on later much later.

I

There's cookies! Oh thanks.

C

They'll help you and.

I

You know I I can live without seeing those again, and that would be okay, so I think that I mean, except for a few things here, uh I'm also in agreement that the ami of 80 is meaningless and that we need to be more aggressive, uh in which case we may also need to be more aggressive on the incentives.

I

So that is something that I would definitely consider, but I don't think anybody who owns a single family unit is gonna who owns one who is living in a neighborhood who owns a single-family unit, is going to be incentivized to build a an affordable unit inside their house they're going to build an affordable unit if they need they're going to build a unit if they need it, they're going to let let their child live in it or their.

I

You know, grandmother, um and so the only people who are going to do that are people who, who are real estate developers, who are going to buy up a bunch of single family houses and I'm very concerned about that.

R

I have a couple of things: go.

C

R

um There was, there was a lot of concern about that. There were loopholes allowing more sros or micro units with without a lot of loving. That idea is, can you can you tell us if that, if, if those things are changed with this section.

H

So this proposal does not include regulations related to sros.

H

um My guess is that that the council mail, the council office mailing that went out included a number of different housing related proposals on the same flyer and sros were included as part of that flyer, and so I think that's where some of the the comments where there were overlapping concerns came up, um but this proposal itself does not directly affect sros or the shared housing proposal.

I

We do have a a proposal like that before city council. Do we not right, but.

R

I

Planning commission has passed at some point: correct: okay,.

H

Not that council, but it's a separate it's.

I

R

H

R

Does this do any of our standards right now have a minimum unit size.

H

The existing standards do not have a minimum unit size. The only place in the proposed incentives that has a minimum unit size is for the rmf zoning districts, and that has a maximum of 25 percent of the units could be 500 square feet or less.

R

Okay, is there a way to think about if we're concerned, if the affordable units would be.

C

Speaking to your microphone.

R

um Can we can we is there a way to address that affordable units, maybe aren't you know like if the whole, maybe the affordable units, aren't the only ones that are like set up like an sro in the project, so they have.

C

I don't think that's legal, I think they have to be spread out um and be equal to ones that are that's.

R

Not the same, there is so you can't build like luxury apartments and then then 10 sro.

H

Rooms there is like make sure there is a language in the proposal that addresses that that.

K

H

States that they need to be um kind of comparable in terms of location and size, number of bedrooms, those kinds of things- um and they can't be- you know, put.

I

In the basement, or something like.

H

I

Yeah, but that doesn't have to be they did with with the heinz development they put all the affordable units on one lower floor.

R

I

C

I understand enforcement.

R

Is different than planning, but who, who can we talk to because we often hear or who like who? Can we make a suggestion to? Whoever can do something about it? To improve enforcement of the short-term rentals.

C

Well, I think, sarah, if you would repeat your comment from earlier about state law, restricting um a municipality's ability to even do much with that sure. I'm.

H

Gonna go ahead and turn over here. Do you have more to add than what I said earlier, because I know that I don't know too much about that.

B

I don't, and I think that the city recognizes that it's an issue and it's a problem, but we're kind of strong-armed by the state legislature with laws that say that we can't use their website as an enforcement tool. It doesn't mean we don't have force on them, it's just difficult.

B

So what what they basically do is you have to have a neighbor who's willing to report them and then basically watch them and like take notes on license plates or you know, watching people come and go, and- and so we know that it's an airbnb because it's on their website and we can go and look at it. But we can't use that as a tool. Unfortunately, and so um it is problematic, we would love to find some to have more help and solutions. But you know it's: gonna have to come from the state. Unfortunately, well.

R

The I I came from the community council side, where that was our concern about 80 years, and it did turn out to be the adu that was approved, turned out to be a short-term rental. So I just wonder if, um if I'll come to that training, you guys will teach me how to do a petition to improve enforcement of short-term rentals in our city.

B

We can definitely have that conversation when we think when we get there so.

R

Because I think it's it's a big deal, it's a huge number.

B

I think it is, I hope, people whether in the audience or the commission. The city does recognize that it's an issue and- and we would, we would like to find a solution for sure and.

R

I personally have reported several of them with case closed. We can't tell you what happened because yeah.

B

They basically ask them, is this an airbnb and they say no right.

R

B

R

Trying to be a busy body over here so.

C

I think it is um very difficult when so many non-planning issues overlap with what we're doing and, and so it leads to this feeling that you're passing the buck and you're just passing it off like. Oh, that's, not our, that's not what we do when we do and they're it's not. I.

S

C

Not that we want to just ignore it, but there are certain things that just are not in our legal purview, but there's such crossover that it is difficult to adequately address these concerns in a way that people feel like you're listening, um and I think this might be one of them, but it doesn't mean we can't continue to have these conversations all right, any other um items you want to bring up for sarah to consider for the next meeting. I.

L

Just had some comments, I just had some comments. Okay,.

C

You might have to do a letter.

L

Hello there it is, I just wanted to make some comments, um some observations, I guess from my viewpoint, if that's okay, to just put him on to the record um the one thing that I heard a lot um in the comments that we had today from the public by the way. Thank you for coming and being part of this of these proceedings.

L

We always encourage public participation, but the one thing that seems to be perceived is that in the things that are approved or encouraged as far as construction in the city, developers seem to have an upper hand. um That's one of the things that I noticed was very prominent on many of the comments that that I heard another thing that also, I think I want to mention into the record- is the definition of affordable or was also another one. That was really prominent on the comments that I heard.

L

The other item that was also prominent was enforcement. You know how. How is that? um Well I'll, just leave it at that enforcement. What's the other issue that I saw as well and the other question that I think kind of indirectly was made, is: can the city put a cap on rent prices and I don't know the answer to that? That's something very complex, but those are the things that I wanted to kind of bring up. As far as what, from my perspective, I was able to perceive from the public today. Thank you.

L

I'm going to jump into and just echo some of the same concerns that ami is too high and the percentage of affordable housing is too low and also have a lot of concerns over salt lake city's ability to enforce this.

C

Okay, sarah, do you have any specific thing that we did not address? You would like us to give you feedback on, or are you as overwhelmed as everyone? You might need a cookie they're over there.

H

I will just a few minutes.

J

Oh there we go sorry, it could be a land use issue if you did provide incentives, as I don't know whether there's enough people that have unused vouchers, but if you kind of put a different, affordable housing incentive where you have to have enough people accepting enough, so I my understanding is somebody can correct me the voucher program as it operates in utah landlords opt in. So the easy way to say I don't want to take section. 8 is: oh I'm sorry. I never signed up for that program.

J

What a shame, um but whether you could have a certain number of landlords that had said we have been certified by utah housing corp. We accept section 8 vouchers, because I again check the check with utah housing corp, but that would be one way of dealing with the section 8 vouchers.

H

I can't I can look into that, so it was helpful when you talked about some of the things that you didn't hear a lot of comments on, or you didn't have a lot of kind of changes that you wanted to make. So there was a proposal for the tsa zones right now. There's that administrative additional story and then there was a proposal to add potentially two stories in those tsa core areas and then one in the transition were there any questions or issues.

C

I will just state that I actually agreed with the comment that our tsa zone- zoning is underperforming.

C

I mean look at four south right, so I I have no problem with the incentives in relationship to the tsa zoning because, where obviously what's there isn't really isn't performing to what we had hoped. But if we can then begin performing better and then include and affordable units in that that's good, okay,.

I

I would like for someone to do the math on this to see whether it's one story or two stories or you know what is it is in terms of the square footage versus the cost of these units versus the cost of not getting the rent on them and so forth. So um I mean I'm. I have a feeling that that we we need the information.

I

We need the data to know whether this is actually going to work and the only way we're going to get that is from people who have not affordable housing developers, housing developers, people who do this for money a lot and is are any of these incentives going to actually work, but particularly in the tsa zones or in or in the rmf zones, or any place where multi-family housing is already being built to a great extent.

I

Does it do us any good to say you can build five percent more? If you know five percent more area, which is basically what we're saying, maybe five percent or remember- I don't know 20 more area. If you take 20 less in rent, I mean do we ne? Do we have those numbers? Have we done that kind of work has that math been been done because it's it's a it's a calculation? It's not that hard to do.

H

Sure and we've done some preliminary calculations and talked to developers about the numbers, but I think especially um just based on the comments from the community and then the comments from the commission about lowering that ami. We're definitely going to need to do more looking into those numbers and kind of more in depth on those and just seeing what what will work and what. What we can make work as well.

C

Yeah, I think, just to piggyback off of brenda's comments. One of the things that I hear constantly, but I have no numbers for no actual data. Is the high highs high cost of parking?

C

So we have you know a public, that's like we need more parking, but then we have you know developers who are saying the more parking the higher the rent, because parking is not cheap and so I've been trying to find better data on, and I think that would be folded into um brenda's comments like what are you know? What are the numbers and you're right?

C

If we're asking for a lower ami and a higher percentage of required, affordable units, then um that's going to be really important information because otherwise it's a this is a whole practice and futility.

C

um Okay, anything else you want from us. Sarah.

R

C

R

Can I ask real quick um to clarify whether these are income restrictions like the tenants, have to meet the income restrictions for this ami level or if it's just priced, that way like make it really clear in this rules right yeah, something else. I can't remember.

C

R

C

Was income restricted from.

H

Restrictions and then, depending on, if it's using some other kind of program, the rent may be priced at a certain um by a certain rate.

R

It sounds like maybe that's not very clear. Okay.

C

Okay, um okay, I think you're good. Sarah! I have a um a legal question. Is it hannah? Okay, since we're um we're gonna have a motion to like move this to the next one? Was it appropriate for me to close the public comment.

I

No keep it open.

G

Q

A good question you're always welcome to close the public comment and that's never going to preclude you from setting a new publication.

C

Perfect, that's what I wanted.

P

To double check, but if you didn't close.

Q

It you would be forced to keep to you, know, continue it and have it again, um but nothing would preclude you from setting another.

C

So the expectation is that, when this comes back we would have um another public comment period, with the hopes that they would comment on the new proposal and not the old proposal.

H

C

Okay, commissioners, I am open to emotion.

B

L

If no one else has any objections.

B

I'm willing to make a motion to table.

I

C

Okay, I wasn't ready, I'm sorry, it's not working all these pages there. It is okay. So I have a motion from mike and a second from brenda brenda all right, all right. Let's go ahead and take a vote. Maureen.

G

C

K

C

Amy, yes, mike.

B

C

L

A

C

Brenda, yes, rick.

O

C

O

C

Okay, that motion passes unanimously um get to work. Sarah, I have a cookie. um We are going to take a break just gonna, say a five minute break and then we'll come back and um get to the rest of the agenda.

C

This meeting back to order, let me freaking undig myself from all this paper one moment please all right.

C

We do our next item up is the modifications to the harvey plan, development and design review at approximately 501 511 and 515 east 2700 south. This is case number pln, pcm 2021-01092.

C

And to pln pcm 2021-01254.

C

And sarah, you are up again.

H

Thank you chair.

H

This is a modification request for the plan, development and design review approval for the harvey the approval was granted on february 9th and due to inc, increased construction costs. The applicants have requested revisions.

H

The planned development approval was for additional building height to accommodate sunken garden level, patios increase the maximum lot size and for encroachments in the rear and buffer yards. The design review approval was for reduction in the front and corner side yard setbacks for the sunken sunken patios and the related stairs, as well as the front and corner side yard encroachments of the steel canopies.

H

So the proposed modifications modifications must be reviewed by the planning commission when they exceed the minor modifications authorized by the plan development chapter, which in this case is the change in height and then for the design review. The proposed modifications must be reviewed when there's a change in materials.

H

So now I wanted to just go ahead and highlight each of the chain. The proposed requests. What was approved by the commission in february is on the left and then the request is on the right.

H

So the first is for the 500 east or west elevation and the applicant is proposing removal of the staircases and the sunken patios and then a change to window wells, and this decreases the need for the height request, the window well depth of falls within a permitted obstruction and decreases the overall height of the building to 26 feet and then on the 2700 south elevation. The applicant is proposing to remove three of the staircases for the sunken patios. The patios will remain, but access will be from the interior and then on the north elevation.

H

There are several material modifications the applicant is proposing to replace the board formed concrete with smooth concrete and then also with some fiber cement board. There is replacement of the solid garage doors with steel, mesh garage doors and then a change in the dumpster enclosure from brick to cmu block that will match the exterior brick color and then a change from fiber cement board to stucco on some of the walls interior to the project that you can see on the elevations and then on the east elevation.

H

The applicant is proposing to change from fiber cement board to stucco on some walls, there's also the removing removal of the sunken patios to at grade spaces, and then replacement of some of the board formed concrete with smooth, concrete and fiber cement board.

H

The site plan shows the changes to the setbacks on the two street facing facades. These changes were shown earlier with the elevations on the 500 east elevation. You can see the change from the sunken garden patios to the window wells and then the um on the 2700 south elevation, the sunken patios, do remain, but the stairs are removed.

H

So the standards of review are the same. As with the original approval the property is located within the cn zoning district. There are the 21a37 design standards, the 21a55 plan, development standards and then the 21a59 design, review standards, and so a staff's recommendation is for approval of the proposed modifications.

H

um Are there questions for staff at this point? Otherwise, the applicant is here and has a presentation.

C

Okay, questions for sarah all right and we've got. um Are you all here? Alec meyers, tyler macarthur, david anderson and elena kowalski.

C

Please come and get your presentation rather and then um I don't know you all should just say your names um so that it's in the record correctly.

C

C

It's hard when we last saw them it was. We were virtual and, like you, none of you look familiar at least. Usually I can be like. Oh yeah, I kind of remember your face, but none of you look familiar.

C

Okay, if you want to just introduce yourself, did you need? um Are you setting that up.

C

Sometimes that can be finicky but working, okay and I'm sure, as you've learned sitting over there. You have to really speak into the microphone right.

B

C

That's better and then um you have up to 10 minutes, but you may not feel like you need that so go ahead. Time's yours.

B

Okay as introductions, I'm dave anderson with babcock design group alina with babcock design, group and tyler and alec are with the developer company who's uh owning this project.

C

For my personal satisfaction, how do you pronounce your last name, kovalchuk, okay,.

B

I think you nailed it um first off. I know we've moved on, but um on the previous item, I really appreciate that you guys have the durability and resilience to uh go through a day like today and then come back the next day and do all again so were those cookies for everybody or just for you guys, just kidding I'll get one later excellent. Well, um I I think sarah did an excellent job describing the situation as a refresher. This is a 14 unit complex.

B

It's a for sale product that alec and tyler are very excited about providing for salt lake because it does sort of address that missing middle that has come up in housing conversations.

B

Quite often it's two stories above grade, one story below as you've seen: we've sort of reduced the impact of that uh lower level on the street frontage, um and I don't think that we need to go into depth on most of the project because it was approved back in february, but we did want to outline those changes again and really do appreciate the second hearing here.

B

So, on the fifth east side, there were sunken patios that were basically walk-out basements and those are being changed to a daylit basement a window. Well, that's not the polycarbonate extrusion window. Well, this is a cmu product, a concrete masonry unit to match the brick. So we feel that that will be in character with the rest of the building and then on the 21st south side.

B

Each of the units facing that side had a stairway that walked down to a sunken patio in this iteration. We are keeping two stairs one at each and for potential egress, but the thought process is there that any of those units can use any of those stairs to access that shared patio and then the the lower unit. At that point,.

B

The parking structure was fully concrete. It was the board form concrete, that's being modified for a couple of reasons that were triggered by the raising of the sunken patios. Behind that we found an alternative which has a a siding material, that's a cementitious board so similar product and will have a similar feel to the board form concrete. That was originally proposed.

B

um That will you know, lighten up the structure and have some other benefits for us there, as well with the raising of that sunken patio on the back side of the parking structure in order to maintain a naturally ventilated parking garage, as opposed to a mechanically ventilated, which more equipment and gear that you know nobody's really interested in the entry doors for that parking structure are changed to a mesh system as opposed to a solid system, and then the final element that was changed on one of the reentrant corners uh not facing the street and tucked back around some of the materials were changed from a brick to a hard coat stucco, just looking at some of the costs associated with the building finishes.

B

So, in summary, I don't feel that there's a substantial material change that affects the neighborhood. With these proposed changes. uh We do recognize that.

F

B

Of their nature, we do need to go through this process again. um If anything we feel like this is maybe um a a reduced impact on the neighborhood, with some of the changes that we're making um on this project thoughts.

E

Yeah and I'll just add that what what triggered this is the volatility in the construction materials market. When we came to you for the first time, we essentially had concept plans we're trying to get our best estimates as possible from our general contractors and, as things have been very volatile, you know we've seen over the last year that construction costs have gone up by about 20 percent. There's a lot of supply chain issues in the market.

E

When we had some re-estimates done, we just realized that this project wasn't penciling the way that we had it drawn and we tried to fix a lot of the structural. um So we tried to fix some of the structural things like the low sunken patios that would that was affecting the cost. So all of these all this is coming from a cost perspective, and we've tried to just minimize anything that we were doing to the exterior of the building.

E

Some of the things that we did um like adding some of the fiber cement board to the um actual garage structure is an attempt to try to um make that garage. You know look better with some nicer materials. The stucco that we're using is going to not be a standard stock. It's going to be a very smooth formed stucco, which is a higher quality and expensive stucco.

E

So we're trying to be very cognizant of that. We didn't change any of the brick materials that we had on any of the two street facing facades. So just it was a. It was a cost issue and we're just trying to be respectful. What was already approved and minimize what we're asking for today.

C

Okay, thank you, uh commissioners. Any questions for the applicant at this time.

C

Okay, hang tight, we'll open the public comment period and if anything comes up that you feel like you want to take a moment to address I'll, give you time when I close the public comment period.

C

All right with that, I will formally open the public comment period and I believe we have judy from the community council if you want to speak first.

D

I feel like I'm in a cage judy short land use, chair from sugarhouse community council. um I'm sorry, the sunken patios were one of the best features of this project. It's a shame to eliminate them.

D

You don't mention anything about the alley, which is one of the problems. With this project. It's going to receive a lot more traffic, especially from people exiting the parking garage and going east to avoid the 27th south intersection.

D

It really should be improved if it can't be paved. What about at least leveling it out and putting gravel on it to make it easier to drive and navigate, especially in the winter, and I stand by my comments before there is not enough parking and there's no overflow anywhere close by in the neighborhood.

D

Unless you go up the alley to the street, I think it's fifth east now I did send send this proposal around to the people who commented before when we saw it- and I got two comments back one of the neighbors said the proposed new changes have not addressed the real problem, which is parking issued expressed by residents via public comments having such high density. In this small corner has shown an increased cost to build as such. If cost is an issue, perhaps the developer should reduce the number of units being built.

D

The other one said I want them to fix the alley and recognize they're changing the status of the alley to a high density traffic and therefore should be required to pave the entire thing. But nobody wants to talk to me about this. In my opinion of their new changes, it worsens it. It loses curb appeal and livability appeal as its neighbor. It will now look more like a multiplex than five individual condos without the individual walk-ups on the south.

D

I don't think they should be given approval of this redesign.

C

Thank you. Thank you judy. Next up, we have lynn schwartz.

K

My name is lynn schwartz. I just don't have much to say it's just a shame that circumstances have so radically changed that the original design can't be followed through, because it does change the appearance from that of individual row houses to something more monolithic and also.

K

I don't think that using cinder blocks for a trash enclosure is anywhere comparable to using brick there's something about brick. That just gives a whole different look to place. That's it! Thank you.

C

Hi, thank you lynn. Next up I have martin newbold.

C

Okay, um he did not indicate whether he wanted to speak or didn't want to speak, but he has a card in opposition and daryl nash, nab again just in opposition. Okay. Is anybody else wishing to speak on this item?

C

Okay, I'll, officially close the public comment period and bring it back to the commission and give you the opportunity. If there was anything you wanted to address in which you heard but you're afraid not to.

E

um I think we we we specifically didn't want to change the row home look of the building either, and I don't think we've actually really done that the the stairwells, the walk-ups are all in place on all eight of those street facing units. It was only the three stairs down that um were adjusted and we also commiserate with the loss of the sunken patio on the west side, but that was not accessible from the street.

E

It was essentially a really large glorified window well and it was only accessible from the interiors of the units, and so the the interaction with the street doesn't change and we've, because we still have the steps up and the stoops in front. We don't feel like the actual row home. Look of the building has actually changed that much so that um just wanted to make sure that was clear.

C

D

H

C

Speaker we eliminated.

H

The sunken patios in the back of the.

Q

Units but we also added a door, so the tenants.

K

Have an access to the back area and I can enjoy the exterior skins as well.

C

All right, commissioners I'll bring it to you now. If we have any discussion items or anything, you want to bring up I'll. Just reiterate what I said when, when this came before us before on the alleyway, because I went to this location, its current state is in um 80 better than the alley behind my house.

C

So I it's very drivable compared to what is going on on my alley. So um I alleys are an interesting beast and they're all in different states of disrepair or use. But I I don't consider this high density.

C

My alley gets a lot of traffic um and this is not gonna, be anything near that, but I and I don't think, uh and it dead ends like or it doesn't dead end, but it goes through. What's the street that it's coming out on, I can't remember anyway, it's not a full length alley. It's it's pretty like a short um blank, so I don't. I don't think there'll be a terrible amount of impact, but I don't want to dismiss those concerns, but we.

E

Are paving about 50 of the alley.

C

There you go okay, so that'll direct. The traffic will go on that panel. If you're ready for a motion go.

I

uh Based on the findings and analysis and the staff report testimony and discussion at the public hearing, I move that the planning commission approved the requested modifications to the previously approved plan development and design review petitions pln pcm.

I

2021-01092 and mpl in pcm 2021-001254.

I

For the harvey.

L

I'll, second, that.

C

I have a motion from brenda and a second from mike: let's go ahead and take a vote andra. Yes, adrian.

K

C

L

C

Maureen, yes, levi.

L

C

L

Alvo, yes,.

C

L

C

And amy, yes, okay, that's approves unanimously. Thank you guys! Oh did I forget. Oh, I did brenda yes now it's approved unanimously. um I need more cookie. I guess thank you all for um your patience tonight. Sticking with it. Thank.

M

C

Okay, we will move on to the next agenda item, which is modification to the sugarhouse heights plan development at 2660, south highland drive case number, pln suv2017-01027.

J

Madam chair, I am recusing myself from this item to avoid an appearance of a conflict of interest, great.

C

And we've got wayne tonight for this one.

C

Do I go here, yeah just see if you'd go in there and then, if the rest of the commissioners will help remember, to grab her when we're done. That would be great all right wayne you're up.

Q

All right give me just one second here.

Q

I love when everybody's just watching me. That's great.

Q

All right this is the sugar house heights plan development modification proposal.

Q

Okay, um I knew that was coming by the way. uh It's a modification to the home design on lot. 2 of the sugar house heights plan development, sugar, outside's plan development is a four lot red residential subdivision at 2660, south highland drive.

Q

It was originally reviewed by the planning commission on august 22nd 2018 planning commission at that time tabled the item and um asked the uh the applicant to return with new designs for the homes on lots of one and two and those homes are fronting highland drive.

Q

The planning commission requested that they include features on highland drive, facades that are typically found on the front facade of homes, the applicant redesigned the homes and the planning commission and brought it back to the planning commission planning commission approved on september 26 2018. uh Since the time of the approval, the um the homes on lots, 1, 3 and 4 have been built or in the process of being built, the home.

Q

The building plans for the home on lot, 2 came in and they were substantially different than the home design that was approved by the planning. Commission.

Q

Kind of the reason for the planning commission review is that again, the project was approved as a planned development um and the design of the homes on lots. One and two are part of the development plan that was approved by the pc.

Q

The plan development ordinance provides some guidance on what to do when modifications are requested and it lists two different types of modifications: one's a minor modification, the other is a major and in the ordinance there are specific items that are actually listed that are considered minor, minor modifications those can be addressed through by staff or by the planning director. Anything that's not on that list is a major modification.

Q

In this case. The redesign is a major modification and it requires review by the by the planning, commission and the planning commission can approve it if the new plan is in substantial conformity with the approved plan with the approved plan. Excuse me so the next few slides kind of show the uh the metamorphosis of the uh design of the the homes.

Q

This one shows the original proposal that was presented to the planet commission as seen for lot 2 as seen from highland drive.

Q

This is when the planet commission tabled the item um and they said to come back with um designs along highland drive with the enhanced entryways and a porch uh prominent front entry doors window patterns that are more appropriate and roof detailing more consistent with the front of a home.

Q

The applicant- and I do actually want to note the applicant that is here today- is not the same applicant that presented back in the day ivory homes who's. The applicant today actually purchased the project after the previous applicants received approval by the planning commission just kind of want to point that out. um This is the revised lot to design that came in along highland drive, and this is what the planning commission approved.

Q

And this is what is being proposed today. um I won't go into a lot of detail just in in the interest of time. It's in the staff report. The applicant, I believe, is here um and can kind of address questions regarding the design of the home.

Q

One of the the big reasons for the from what I understand from the um request is that, back when this was presented to the planning commission, the second time when they redesigned, there was actually a mistake that was made in the front yard setback.

Q

When it was first reviewed by planning staff, it was determined that the front required front yard setback was 22 feet.

Q

The applicants at the time went with the 22 foot front yard, setback that did not require request, a modification to the front yard setback and so 22 feet is the required setback.

Q

Well, when they came in with their redesigned plans, they had actually designed the home from what I can tell to a 20-foot setback, which was the wrong setback and, unfortunately, we staff collectively um all those of us that were working on this, actually made a mistake and did not catch that they had designed the home with a 20-foot setback, so the applicant when they came in and the the current applicant when they they came in with their new um house design.

Q

um You know we're showing hey, we need to meet a 22 foot, not a 20 foot and that kind of required them to do some rethinking in the house design, which is why they're here. This is a little hard to see. I don't know if I can get up that's showing up, but you can see this line right here. This is the the the project that was approved by the planning commission for lot 2.. This is the front yard setback at 20 feet.

Q

You can see, there's there's a slanted overhead porch cover that is here that follows a setback and then there's a concrete um kind of patio or porch cat grade. Here.

Q

This is consistent with that, um but this is at 22 feet, so it kind of pushed the the front of the home back away from the front property line a bit and that's why they they looked at doing some redesign work, um but it still is consistent. Has this kind of slanted porch line? The reason for the slant is because the actual front property line does a little curve on highland drive right here, um so planning staff reviewed the the recommend or the the change and and recommends approval.

Q

The believes it's in substantial conformity with the approved development plan, and it includes the design specifically includes the design elements that were requested by the planning commission. When the item is tabled and that's what planning staff looked at to see if it still incorporated some of those or those design elements, um I do believe that I haven't met the applicant in person, so I'm not sure. Hopefully the applicant is here.

C

Okay, um were you finished wayne.

Q

Yes, thank you.

C

Any questions for staff at this time, okay, I believe we have clint larson. You want to come on up and state your name for the record and anything you want to tell us in addition to that.

T

Yes, my name is clint larson, I oversee custom homes at ivory homes.

T

I also oversee sustainability projects, so this has been kind of a real green building science project, where we kind of tested different, green building techniques on each house. So it's kind of been fun on the previous three um wayne covered. It really good, um really, the architect who had designed these for the previous developer.

T

We worked with, obviously to adjust and get the final construction plans done um and learning on lot, one which was the first house we built the what the true setback should be.

T

um He had to modify this one as well, and it just caused us to adjust the front a little bit change the porch just a little bit, but we tried to keep it as similar as we could to the previous version.

T

We've used some really nice exterior products there with some real exterior wood, siding some good-looking brick. I think the the homes we've built there so far, I think, have turned out great and the people who live in them love them.

T

So this really was just a setback thing that kind of pushed the the changes um and really it's about it. So.

C

Okay, thank you, mr larson. Any questions for the applicant commissioners.

C

Okay, hang tight, we'll go ahead and open the public comment period. I had a card from judy short, but it looks like she left so she's with the sugar house, community council and her comments was still does not fit the neighborhood anybody else who wishes to speak any emails. John.

C

That's okay. uh I will officially close the public comment period and bring it back to the commission. If you have questions or discussion or I'm open to a motion.

I

uh I I'm sure I actually went out to this property today to look at it and the house that's built already is very nice. I think it looks good okay.

K

I'm willing to make a motion.

C

Thank you adrian go ahead.

K

Based on the information of the staff report, the information presented and the input received during the public hearing move that the planning commission approved the modifications modification to lot. 2 of the sugar house heights plan development project number pln plnsub2017-01027.

C

I'll second, okay: I have a motion from adrian and a second from maureen go ahead and take a vote levi.

G

C

Brenda, yes, okay, mike.

L

C

Maureen, yes, amy, yes, andreas I'll vote.

F

C

Rick yes and oh she's abstained and adrian yes, okay, that motion passes unanimously. Thank you for your patience tonight. All right um would somebody let andrew back in. Thank you um all right, we'll move on to the next agenda item, which is the row at ballpark planned development at approximately 367 west 1700 south. This is case number plm, pcm 2021-0.

C

And aaron is our planner tonight.

B

Good evening, commissioners, chairman barry chairperson, barry sorry, um I've.

C

Been called a lot worse.

B

C

B

Late, uh this is a planned development request for uh the robot ballpark at approximately 367 east 1700 south. It's a rowhouse style, multifamily development.

B

The applicant is requesting modification to allow four buildings that would not face the public street shout out to brenda who said she doesn't want to see these anymore anyway. It's required by 21a36010b1, the all buildings have a front end along the public street and staff staff is recommending that we have. You approve as proposed.

B

This is a railhouse style, multi-family development with 47 units and six buildings, a mix of one and two bedroom units, uh even though the master plan designates this as a regional, commercial and industrial area, the cg general commercial district does allow multi-family uses here's a rendering of what the street frontage will look like. If you have questions about the design. Well, you can talk to jared when he comes and talks about that it gives his presentation here's the location of the lot it's located next to the costco driveway off of 700 south.

B

It will not be touched. You can still get to costco, while this is being worked on.

B

Here is a layout, a site plan of the development building. A and building b at least one unit on building b will front on to 1700 south. There will be internals, pedestrian and vehicular circulation and staff has found that it meets all of the plant development standards.

B

One thing that I wanted to bring talk about was the neighborhood character. You may notice that the area is mostly underutilized.

B

Commercial and industrial lots and, as I've talked about before multi-family residential use is a permitted use in the cg district and staff is kind of anticipating additional development in this neighborhood, and we can some evidence of that is the 300 west upgrade with uh excuse me, um the bike lane the protected bike lane and the sidewalk there's a draft ballpark plan in the works and community comments also indicate that they have received inquiries about developing these lots.

B

So just some sight photographs, here's the vacant toe lot and the vacant commercial building used to have a restaurant and a grocery store. Here's a view of what's going on across the street. As you can see, this is kind of the general idea of what it looks like in the neighborhood.

B

Here's a shot of 300 west improvements. They are under construction and then staff recommends approval as proposed because it meets plan development standards. It generally meets zoning standards and it provides an enhanced product with these modifications. Thank you.

C

Okay, thanks erin any questions for staff.

C

Okay, we have the applicant jared hall.

C

You know the spiel.

A

I'm jared hall, um so aaron sort of joked, but we went to ballpark community.

Q

Council, that was the number one issue: you're not blocking the costco entrance.

B

And we're not it's not our property, we're not touching it yeah. So in.

Q

A

Where by wright could do almost 100 lot coverage at 60 feet tall, we're in a small town home development? We feel much better matches the character.

B

Of the development.

L

Pattern, that's happening along 17 south we're a little further west, but it's kind of in line with what has been happening there and the lot is big enough that to do.

B

That sort of development we have to have buildings without frontage. That's all I have for you.

C

Tonight, unless you have questions thanks, mr hall, I will say in our pre-meeting. That was my comment too. So I'm glad I wasn't alone any questions for the applicant at this time.

L

I did see one one public comment in the staff report asking about whether or not commercial could be included as part of this and yeah. Do you have any comments as to why.

B

Why that wouldn't be appropriate for your project.

A

I think the thing you do is look at all of the other commercial along that along 17 south. That is not doing well, because there's no people there to frequent it so we're bringing people so hopefully some of the other existing commercial can start to do better.

C

I just have a comment on the three frontage on 17 south for the um yeah aaron. If you could go back one or two slides forward one more one, more sorry that one. So I really like the enclosed um kind of fencing area, but I'm wondering if you have plans to do kind of more distinctive lighting to make this feel a little bit more inviting um on the street frontage.

A

So we do have lighting kind of the highlights each door, a little walls, const that we do. Okay,.

C

Because I couldn't see anything there.

A

B

A

On the rendering.

B

There's a lighting plan in the staff report that points to that, but it's not rendered here.

C

Okay, um all right hold tight and we'll open this up. For oh.

J

C

J

I imagine that's old software with the green grass. You don't really intend to put that much green grass in right. Okay, just making sure.

C

All right, um we'll open the public comments period. Anybody uh that wishes to speak john, any emails.

C

Okay, I guess that's another thing of being in an area where there's really nothing going on, there's not a lot of comments yet so with that, I will officially close the public comment hearing period and bring it back to the commissioners for uh motion or any other questions.

C

I

We did have a you, had you had contact with the ballpark community council and they are not. They were okay, yeah.

L

We went to one of their meetings a couple of weeks ago and they were generally okay with it.

C

We did get a letter.

B

Costco drive yeah, there was no official letter, but they just brought up.

C

A letter from bill davis who's been very active with the community council. Not that he's representing it, but.

I

Okay, I saw the letter yeah, okay, yeah.

C

You might not have connected the name right.

R

I'll make a motion go ahead, based on the information in the staff report, the information presented and the input received during the public hearing, I moved that the planning commission approved the planned development request for the bro at ballpark, located at approximately 367 west 1700 south, as proposed.

L

I'll, second, that.

C

Okay, I have a motion from amy and a second from mike we'll go ahead and take a vote. Brenda yes, maureen. Yes, adrian.

K

C

Levi, yes andra, yes, andreas.

J

L

C

L

C

And amy yes and mike yes, all right! That motion passes unanimously thanks. Mr hall. Thank.

A

C

Okay, moving on to the next agenda item, we have black pearl planned development at approximately 968 west quail avenue. This will be case. Number plm, pcm 2021-01306.

C

And the planner tonight is michael mcnamee.

F

Thank you good evening.

F

This request is for planned development approval to build nine curb cuts that would be spaced closer than allowed in a non-residential zoning district to support a new townhome style, multi-family development and staff is recommending that the commission deny the request.

F

This project is proposed on a site located on the northeast corner of the intersection at pearl street and quail avenue close to 1700, south and 900 west. It would be the second of two phases, the first of which would be constructed by right.

F

The site is zoned, cg commercial, general commercial district, which makes it subject to curb-cut spacing requirements for non-residential districts. The relevant code provision states that multiple curb cuts are permitted on a single frontage. If that frontage is longer than 100 feet in length, it also says that those curb cuts must be spaced a.

S

F

Of 100 feet apart, the applicant is requesting relief from this zoning standard.

F

As proposed, the project would provide nine townhouse style residential units in the glendale neighborhood as part of a larger project that would provide 26 units. Overall, the size of this parcel is about one quarter anchor or right around 11 000 square feet. It is long and narrow. With about 203 and a half feet of frontage along pearl street and 54.5 feet of frontage along quail avenue, there would be five three bedroom units and four one bedroom units.

F

Two off street parking stalls would be required for each of the three bedroom units, while one would be required for each of the one bedroom units as proposed. The applicant is meeting the minimum number of off-street stalls.

F

The site plan shows the proposed layout of the development with pearl street on the bottom of the screen quail avenue to the right.

F

The applicant is proposing to provide a total of nine front loaded garages in order to accomplish that they would need to provide a curb cut and driveway for each garage, which would be accessed via pearl street and be spaced about four feet apart.

F

Pearl street is narrow. The right-of-way measures 33 feet across quail avenue is a more typical width of 50 feet. The applicant is proposing a turf block treatment for the driveways to encourage some vegetative growth.

F

Driveways are excluded from required landscaping, so the turf block does not count towards or against.

E

S

F

Yard landscaping, as previously mentioned the project, is the second phase of a larger development. The first phase would occupy what is currently two parcels directly to the north, this property fronting 1700 south. It would provide 17 townhouse style residential units.

F

The first phase is proposed to be constructed by right and is not subject to this or any other current planning applications.

F

The garages in the first phase are proposed to be rear-loaded accessed via a shared drive, aisle which itself would be accessed using 1700, south or pearl street. The pearl street access point would be located directly to the north of.

O

F

Subject: property presently the site is a vacant lot. Pearl street is lacking, curb and gutter as well as sidewalks on both sides of the street pearl street is signed for no parking, and it is likely too narrow to accommodate on street parking in the future.

F

Previously there had been an abandoned house on the property, and it appears that the home had been vacant for a number of years prior to.

S

F

The area surrounding the subject property is characterized primarily by heavy commercial industrial, auto oriented and outdoor storage uses to the north on 1700 south are a small restaurant, a convenience store an office and an auto repair business.

F

The neighborhood then transitions to the north and east to a primarily single family residential character, with some low scale, multifamily mixed in about one quarter, mile to the west, the jordan river parkway trail 17th south river park and former waterpark site are accessible via 1700 south.

F

When reviewing this project staff looked at the general standards in the zoning ordinance and, in particular, the standards for the cg zoning district and the plan development standards, several of which were relevant to this proposal, in particular those related to design and mobility.

F

The applicant is requesting one modification through the plan development process, which is to build curb cuts closer than 100 feet apart in a non-residential zoning district. In this case, there would be nine curb cuts, spaced approximately four feet. Apart from each other staff, is recommending that the commission deny the request, based primarily on the failure of the proposal to comply with plan development standards. For design and mobility, the applicant is proposing nine individual drive access points which would consume a significant portion of the street frontage along pearl street.

F

There are several plan development standards related to mobility that are in direct conflict with this design, as discussed in attachment e of the staff report, this will create an excessive number of conflict points where vehicles will need to cross the sidewalk to access the property.

F

The result will be a streetscape that is overwhelmingly oriented toward motor vehicles and rather than contributing to a pleasant and safe pedestrian environment. The proposed design discourages.

E

F

Activity to access the garages, the applicant is proposing driveways that are approximately 14 feet, 3 inches in depth, which is not long enough to be considered a parking stall under the requirements and the parking ordinance which require a depth of at least 17 feet. Six inches off-street parking minimums are being met with the garage parking, so the driveways are not required to be parking stalls.

F

However, staff is concerned that residents and visitors to the property will park in the driveways, even given the short length. If this were to happen, parked vehicles would block the sidewalk further contributing to a lack of pedestrian orientation and potentially causing a safety hazard for pedestrians using the sidewalk.

F

Additionally, a design standard for plan developments is whether building facades offer ground floor, transparency, access and architectural detailing to facilitate pedestrian interest in interaction.

F

Granting this request will allow the applicant to build a design that offers very little in terms of ground, floor, transparency or architectural detailing to facilitate facilitate pedestrian interest and interaction.

F

The facade will be primarily oriented towards the automobile and, as a result, residents and visitors will likely primarily interact with the front of the property in their cars, and pedestrian activity in general will not be encouraged.

F

If this project were built to meet zoning standards, the drive access would need to be built to the rear of the property, greatly reducing the number of curb cuts and orienting the front of the project toward the public realm.

F

Elements of this project do help to implement goals in plan salt lake and the west side master plan. It.

B

F

Medium density, housing near the intersection of 1700, south and 900 west, which is identified as a regional node in the west side master plan, regional nodes in general are discussed in the plan as places where housing with a density of 50 units per acre or greater, should be built.

F

This project would provide about 36 units per acre, at least on the second phase, but given the dimensions of the lot and requirements of the cg zone, higher densities likely not very feasible.

F

The project would also provide infill on underutilized land, a goal identified in planned salt lake. Additionally, it would provide access to the jordan river parkway trail and 17 south river park. However, it is worth noting that a similar project built by wright would also be implementing all of these objectives.

F

Staff has received two comments from the public regarding this proposal, both of which were included with the staff report. One of the comments was generally in support, noting that this would allow for a buffer yard between the proposed units and the marine products building to the east.

F

The other comment was generally in opposition of the request based on concerns. Over impact of the pedestrian realm notice was sent to the glendale community council, who requested a presentation from the applicant. After the presentation, the community council provided a letter of support for the project which is included in the staff report.

F

Staff recommends that the commission deny the request for planned development approval for curb cuts, spaced closer than 100 feet apart in a non-residential zoning district.

F

The purpose of a plan development, as stated in the ordinance, is in part to result in a more enhanced product and would be achievable through strict application of land use regulations while enabling the development to be compatible with adjacent and nearby land developments based on the failure to comply with several of the planned development standards. It is staff's belief that this project will result in a less enhanced product than would be achievable, achievable through strict application of the zoning ordinance and therefore fails to meet the purpose of a plan development.

F

That concludes my presentation and I'm happy to take questions at this time. I do want to make one additional note, which is that the applicant provided a presentation today to staff and that uh presentation included some updated uh elevation drawings um that include um new designs for the garage doors um and staff.

C

F

Designs that work new designs for the garage.

C

F

And I'll let the applicants speak to that design change, but I just want to note that staff has not had a chance to review those changes.

C

Okay, any questions for staff at this time. Okay, thanks michael, oh, go ahead. Andrew.

J

Thanks adrian, are there previous developments in salt lake that look anything like this? I'm just trying to imagine you know, I think the concern, maybe you can just clarify it- seems like there's potentially effectively no sidewalks if people choose to not park in their garage and they choose to park in the ramp up to their garage. Is that kind of your main concern, and is that I'm trying to understand exactly.

F

Yeah, so I think a concern with the length of the driveways is that the sidewalk would become unusable if it were blocked by parked vehicles.

J

Yeah, I'm just wondering is: do you know of any other examples that could we could look at to see what that looks like or.

F

R

My friend in the avenues has a very short driveway in front of her garage and we park on it and block the sidewalk all the time we do it all the time and every time it's like that's a bad idea, but we just do it.

R

C

And when I walk my dog, I hate you just so you know, okay, any other questions for michael.

L

uh Quick question: how much longer would the driveway have to.

T

Be to easily accommodate a car and still have the sidewalk.

F

uh To be considered a legal parking stall, um it would need to be 17 feet six inches in length, so it need to be about three feet longer than what it is now. You know.

C

Okay, commissioner,.

H

Ghent, I'll just add, there are examples in.

M

Capitol hill of new development that actually have this issue um that we have images of.

C

Shortened, driveways or excessive, curb cuts both okay. Yes, I just wanted to clarify. Thank you. Okay, um we'll go ahead and have the applicant come and join us. We have jordan, atkin and kyle griffin on my notes.

O

S

Trust me with this.

S

S

Well, I might be able to do this without my presentation, um michael. How can I access this? Okay, I'm sorry give me just a moment. I only have like one image to show you anyway. Okay, let's see.

S

While they pull that up, my name is jordan. Atkin, I'm with tag slc um a little history on this. uh This and I have a flash drive too. If that's gonna be any easier.

S

um This uh project was originally brought to us as a commercial redevelopment opportunity uh under this cg zoning, and it is something that we had considered as we went through our options as we became more familiar with this particular area and specifically, okay, cool some of the city initiatives regarding, I think it's the raging water site directly to the west. That is likely to get quite a bit more. I think the city council even heard more about that proposal.

S

It's in the budget we started thinking about how housing could in this area could actually benefit that and it could be a nice amenity. So we then turned our eyes to a more residential-based development that always starts with apartments which the site could facilitate, and I think we could do that under the zoning as well.

S

We as then, you keep going and then we went and met with the people at cdcu who had a very successful townhome project directly across the street from us and talked to them about their experience. They were able to deliver a product at a pretty affordable price point for them, and then we turn started thinking about how we could do town homes here um so the first.

S

So we actually designed the entire project phase one and two, and it wasn't until we applied for our permit that this issue came up because I believe it is only in non-residential uses where this this curb cut issue exists.

S

So we kind of modified every made some some changes and now we're here asking for the curb cut. If you want to it's.

T

Like one more one, a couple more.

S

So this is our proposed site plan. The green is meant to represent landscaping, not necessarily grass. We had a tremendous amount of trees along the northern edge of our property, and although it wasn't allowed to be calculated in the landscape area, we did do turf block in the front in the front to kind of offset what we were requesting.

S

And then this image is what we were told by staff would be the preferred method of development on this site, which just didn't quite seem to make sense to us. Having a 25-foot drive aisle on the interior of a 52-53 foot wide lot with just a token amount of landscaping in the front for a pedestrian experience to preserve a pedestrian experience that doesn't exist and without this project won't exist because there is no sidewalk.

S

Nor is there any sidewalk on quail street. As you wrap the corner, this particular one is seven units, all of which are two bedroom. In order to achieve the same number of three bedroom units, which we continue to hear both from planning, commission, local community councils and city council, we would have to drop down to a total of five units.

S

With this rear-loaded design. Where, in our current proposal, we have not only five three bedroom units, but also four one bedroom and office units.

B

That's all I got.

C

Okay, commissioners, brenda you have a question.

I

Yeah, um I noticed you have uh in your current site plan proposal. You have landscaping in the rear of the uh that would be the east side of the units, but there's no uh door to that. Landscaping from the units is that, where is that? Why is that.

S

The whole first level's garage.

I

T

I

If I had a door, I could put my you know thing out there. My.

S

We would be happy to add it to it.

I

Just thank you.

I

That's all. I want a door.

I

I could there'd.

C

I

Out there I could, but my barbecue.

R

I I went out there today and there's not there's not much out there right but kitty corner from your lot is a nice town home. Maybe that's the what you were talking.

S

R

um And they're all rear loaded, though I mean they're they're, really cute. The street frontage are front doors and lights over doors and and landscaping and stuff like that. It's not garage doors and the other half of your development also is rear loaded, which means that this is the only section I mean there's not much there right so you're saying: there's no sidewalk there, so we can't ruin a pedestrian experience that doesn't exist, but assumably one will happen.

R

If you build, if you put a bunch of homes there one will happen and it just it just feels like this is pretty far off to have a to have a driveway every four feet when they're allowed every 100 feet, but maybe if it was a it doesn't matter, because this is the zoning that it's in right now but short driveways and the driveway every four feet across the sidewalk seems like a lot to me.

S

Yeah, we certainly can't oh um yeah. We certainly contemplated that, and um the lot is les. It would absorb more than 50 of the total lot depth. So the I don't know if this is our ideal either, but this was the what we felt was the the best we could do. Given the parameters.

R

And then this goes to the question that I asked last time when, when there's a different proposal brought to this meeting, then is in our dropbox, and that was reviewed by staff, which what are we voting for.

C

R

Know what changed.

S

I didn't know it was different. I'm sorry, I.

R

Didn't make to meet, did you say it was different.

D

Commissioner picture of these new garage doors, commissioner.

M

Burroughs yeah, the information that michael received prior to the hearing, which was in the presentation, indicated that there was some changes to the garage door design that they were 100 transparent. um Jordan did not show those in the presentation, so I'm not sure if that's what's happening with that.

F

um So this is the change that I was referring to: it's the garage doors being changed to a transparent design and I'll. Let jordan speak to um to that change.

C

Okay, any other question for the applicant go ahead: andre.

L

Thank you, maybe a question for staff. um So if he was to, I guess, there's a three foot um difference between what's what could be approved and what he has currently for that driveway to be allowed. Is that correct.

F

uh To be considered a legal parking stall, yes,.

L

Is there is that something he would have to do or who determines how long that driveway is.

F

It's a requirement in our parking ordinance. They can have the driveway this length. They.

L

Could make it longer.

F

The the configuration that they have it just can't be considered a legal parking stall, so it couldn't be counted towards their required parking.

L

Oh gosh, I see yeah thanks.

C

Okay, um hang tight, we'll open the public comment period. Anybody who wishes to speak on this item, any emails, okay, I'll officially close the public comment period and bring it back to the commission.

M

C

Just state that I agree with amy burrows in that.

C

I tend to not evaluate projects based on what's there, but this idea that what will come, what we're trying to build versus building for what is the existing conditions on the ground and if this had come before us with other conditions that had other um you know other dwellings around it. I I would never want to see the front of something be garages I saw, I think I said this on other projects. I think that just kills this idea of interaction to to the street frontage, but um that's my comments.

C

Anybody any commissioners have any other discussion items or.

I

I I I'm going to disagree with that. I think this is a better project because then than having it be smaller footprint buildings with much more paving is what you're looking at the alternative, also fewer units. So instead of well, I don't remember the numbers, but it's like 9 versus 6, or something like that, and and you have a huge 28 foot, 24 foot uh driveway in the back. That's all paving in this one.

I

You have open space, green space trees in the back, and you have paver blocks in the front which are by the way uh for those who don't know they are sort of concrete blocks that have uh grass growing in between them. So that, as you approach this, if there are people parked in there, uh then you would be able to. uh Then it's basically going to look like a lawn.

I

So um I've seen many buildings that are.

I

This is one of the reasons why I was asking for a door, because I think actually, people who buy these units appreciate actually having that tiny little apron of green space in their backyard, even if they don't use it uh so much, they still want it uh and I've been told many times by real estate developers that that is that this is actually preferred by people who buy them. Now.

I

I re recognize that um if this is actually a for for sale property, I think we want to maximize the number of units that we can do and I'm willing to suggest that that the fact that somebody might park a very big car, okay, bigger than 14 feet, long, which is really big car in those driveways, is, is not a huge issue compared to having more for sale units.

J

Thanks brenda, I I'm maybe I'm just late, because I it's late and I haven't processed all the information. um I will say that I was bothered by the concept of of not having somewhere. I can walk and jog, and that really does bother me. um But it's 14 feet from the garage to the curb sidewalk 14 feet from the garage to the sidewalk. Yes, and then the sidewalk will be how wide.

F

That I'm not sure four.

C

Feet, they're, typically four feet.

J

Okay, so there is 14.

R

Feet if you pull your car right up to their garage door and crash into it,.

I

Right, that's right, which.

R

They will not like.

J

Right but even if you left a couple feet, most cars are not more than eight feet right. Well,.

I

J

I

Feet but they're not 14 feet.

I

A typical parking space in a parking garage is 18 feet long, but you know we all know when you park your smaller car in the air. It doesn't work, I mean if everybody here has a big car which they might.

I

On the other hand, everybody here has two parking garages.

J

I

I guess I I wonder whether.

J

I mean my concern, I think, is that I I generally prefer to see designs that don't require enforcement to call the city like this. Is the sugar house chick-fil-a, which I'm hoping we can all address at some point, um because it's just bad design right, like people are always going to fight those rules and we can keep. I can keep calling the city every time.

J

I see a problem there, but nothing gets done and my worry about kind of building, something which is sort of designed to fail for pedestrians is that if we're kind of oh, but he got a truck and he didn't bother, you know some people like to use their garage as like a boat.

J

They want to keep a boat or they want to keep all sorts of toys in there, and I guess I'm a little concerned whether you know we're kind of designing something that yes, it's true if everybody behaves well, but if we're designing people that something that everybody breaks, the rules- I don't know, I'm I'm just I'm I've.

I

No doubt that people will park in the what what you know is effectively the driveway and and to the extent that they will, they will block from time to time the sidewalk. Yes, um there are nine.

R

Driveways like that, right.

M

Can I just jump in and yeah reiterate that the request before you is for curb cuts, the curb cuts um that are not spaced more than a hundred feet apart and not necessarily the driveway links? That is a consensus about the proposal in front of you, but it's not the requested modification right.

K

And kelsey that those kind of curb cuts are allowed in other zoning districts. Yes, yes,.

H

K

By virtue of the fact that we're in a cg zone that they have to seek a planned development, it's correct because they're looking to invest in an underutilized part of the city, where we've got a lack of investment and development going on and they're coming to ask for a special exception. Just given the unique nature of the zoning and we've had a huge discussion about affordable housing all night long um and how much we need flummox well,.

C

Adrian, would you like to make a motion? I would like.

L

To make a mistake, I have a one quick question before you make a motion.

C

L

Chair or the legal counsel prior to being appointed to this commission, I actually wrote a letter and I'm part of the glendale community council that submitted a letter in support.

T

So I think it's not appropriate for me to vote on this.

C

Correct sustain when you sounds good, when I call you to vote just abstain.

R

I want to say real, quick, I think, there's something to be said for buying buying a piece of property that you can build. What you want to build on it following the rules, because also the big discussion with today was letting developers scoot around the rules a little bit to build something I mean there is there's a way to still build houses here without without nine curb cuts.

J

Before you make a motion, I'm still trying to understand what he what if this was zoned. Suppose this was zone like the form-based urban neighborhood. Would they have an issue with curb cuts? I I'm still kind of like curb cuts, are basically a flattening out. It's like a ramp from the street. I'll, be perfectly honest with you. I don't totally understand. Okay,.

B

So and commissioner, it's not as easy as to say like in every single other place, you could do that like so, for example, in a form based zone, we require to utilize the ally, so you wouldn't be able to have a group cut at all, and so we do have other parts of the city that don't encourage. You know, especially those that are more walkable mixed use, downtown chicago, so we wouldn't um allow them to have nine in a row right there, but in some residential zones. Yes, we absolutely would allow that so.

J

Which residential zones would we allow that you.

B

Know what I okay? We've got: 50 plus zones, so I don't know I'm off the top of my head, but um generally in more low density types of situations.

R

Or or there's a minimum lot width on the frontage that you can't, you can't have a house every three feet.

B

Yeah and so in a single family neighborhood, your your driver approach has to be six feet away from the property line, but in this case this isn't a single family project and so those same things wouldn't apply.

R

Right and it's like the first sidewalk going in this kind of neighborhood and it's now it's it's going to be a beat up. Sidewalk.

J

I mean it is a street right now that is not going very far right, you're only going around the block. It's.

B

J

To going through, another side's training.

C

J

High traffic corridor.

L

Yeah andrew just pointed out what what I was going to point out that uh I I.

B

It looks like these: these two streets will never likely.

L

Have an opportunity to be any longer, so it's not going to be high traffic, which normally I would be completely against to proving this. But given the unique circumstances, I I think it's it's going to be. Okay,.

C

Okay, adrian, I think you are ready to make a motion. I'm gonna bring it back to you.

M

Excuse me, the public hearing hasn't been open. Oh what.

C

I don't know, thank you didn't I do that. I did that I did. I did.

J

It she did, she did.

C

I opened it and I closed it.

J

On public comments.

C

I did that I.

J

Did I'm going to blame david.

M

I opened it go ahead with the motion. Okay,.

J

Can I can I ask one more thing before you go, is there any possibility? The street will eventually not just go to another little tiny street. I mean it is.

C

I think there's always a possibility for anything. There's.

J

No, I mean, I don't know, is there other plans in the city for that area?.

B

No and like the the transportation master plan of the street, the major street plan, it doesn't get down to this fine grain of a neighborhood, we're looking more like arterial collectors, that kind of thing so yeah I mean. Who knows what could happen in the future, but there's no guarantees right now. So.

C

Okay, that's it adrian you're on go.

K

Okay, based on the findings listed in the staff report, the information presented and the input received during the public hearing move that the planning commission approved the plan development petition pln pcm.

K

2021-01306, as proposed.

K

Because evidence has been presented that demonstrates the proposal complies with the following standards: that the even the staff report concludes, that the application meets two objectives stated in the planned development section and that the project will result in a more enhanced development. That would be achieved through strict application of the zoning, because it allows for an increased in density, provides for more units and a greater variety of units in terms of size encourages the efficient use of land and development and reinvestment in an under on an underutilized parcel.

K

And I would add that the condition that doors be added to provide access to the green space in the rear of the property.

I

I will second that.

C

Okay, I have a motion from adrian and a second from brenda, we'll go ahead and take a vote. um Adrian.

K

C

O

C

G

C

Andreas, I will vote yes, maureen.

M

C

B

C

Brenda, yes levi.

L

C

Okay, that motion passes with one two: three: seven, yes, votes, one; no and one abstention all right. Thank you all right. Moving on to our last agenda item in the public hearing, we have volunteers of america, large group home, a conditional use at approximately 1875 south redwood road case number, pln pcm 2022-00019.

C

Our planner tonight is david gilner.

I

David, the hardest working man.

A

Give me a minute to see if I can queue up the presentation.

O

A

Ready to proceed when you are go ahead, okay, so uh this is uh application. Pln pcm, 2022.

A

This is a conditional use for a large group home. It will be located in the or proposed clinical detoxification or recovery facility, it's classified as a dwelling large group home, and it will be located in the existing building at 1875 south redwood road.

A

The zoning district is cc corridor commercial and that use is allowed as a conditional use in the cc zone.

A

The proposal would allow for 165 individuals to stay at the facility and would have about 20 to 25 staff on site at any one time the use would be on about 80 percent of the first floor of the building and the rest of the building would be devoted to office uses a little bit of a little bit of context.

A

Here is the existing office building a scene from redwood road and an oblique aerial view gives you a little bit of an idea of the neighborhood context. It's west of the glendale golf course, and it's surrounded by largely industrial, slash, commercial and office type uses on all sides.

A

It's not adjacent to any single family residential zones and again the configuration of the existing building has a lot of parking located on all sides of the building. There's about 280 existing parking spaces. It was a call center for zion's bank. As I understand it.

A

So key considerations are those compliance with city goals, policies and plans, the neighborhood compatibility and anticipated impacts and any public input in neighborhood concerns or neighbor concerns.

A

For standards of review, we looked at the conditional use standards, chapter, 21a, 54080 and also the detrimental effects determination, as well as the base zoning standards for the cc corridor, commercial, zoning district and the permitted and conditional uses in that district and the parking requirements as outlined in chapter twenty one. Eight forty four.

A

Staff found- and this is included in the analysis in your report- that the proposed development is supported by city plans and policies.

A

It the use, will be compatible with adjacent development and it complies with the conditional use standards and the anticipated detrimental impacts are medicated by the proposed management, security and operations plan, which the voa is included in their narrative. That's also included in your staff report that addresses things like loitering access, how clients will be managed on site and where smoking areas and other things that could have a detrimental impact will be located.

A

It does comply with the base zoning standards and parking requirements.

A

We did have a suggested conditional of approval, which was adoption of and adherence to, the procedures and principled outlined in the management, security and operations plan included in the narrative submitted by the voa. Now to be clear, the this is not a homeless resource center, which has a specific requirement for a security and operations plan.

A

But in working with the voa volunteers of america, we did point out what those requirements were in the security and operations plan for a homeless resource center and they adopted some of those same principles and again not a requirement, but they did follow that kind of model for a homeless resource center to have those principles in their management and security plan to mitigate some of those impacts.

A

So staff is recommending approval with two conditions: one the aforementioned and then, of course, the standard compliance with all other city department, conditions and requirements.

C

Okay, thank you, david uh commissioners. Any questions for staff. Okay, um we'll bring up the applicant which I have as uh sua tavalu kathy bray.

C

If you all just state your name for the record and sue can say if I got anywhere close.

M

Yours is great: I'm sue ativalu vice president of program operations for volunteers.

G

Of america, I'm kathy bray, I'm the president and ceo for volunteers of america.

T

Dennis ferris community engagement, voa.

C

All right um go ahead and give your presentation you have up to 10 minutes but feel free not to take that much time.

G

Yes, we'll be brief. Thank you so much for your time and your hours this evening on the planning commission appreciate your service to the community, um I'm so pleased and just want to thank david gelner for his thorough service and the planning city team, and also appreciate the favorable recommendation to our application.

G

We would like to make a few brief remarks and then answer any questions you may have. Volunteers of america is a non-profit human service organization. That's been providing detoxification services in salt lake county for 36 years.

G

We are excited about the opportunity to go to redwood road and provide additional beds for people in our community who truly need the access to this service.

G

The demand for detox currently exceeds the capacity that we have now and we we want to do more and in a community like ours, we want to be part of the solution.

G

It's especially true, as we respond to the opiate crisis.

G

The redwood road building gives us that opportunity to expand detox services to better meet community needs and to help more people move forward in their lives and start their journey to be clean and sober. So we're happy to be with you tonight and sue's going to make a couple remarks as well. Thank you, yeah.

E

So, just to share a little bit about our outreach efforts. We presented this project to both the poplar grove and glendale neighborhood community councils. We also reached out and spoke face to face with many neighbors. We look forward to becoming part of the community.

E

We are happy to answer any questions you may have.

C

All right, thank you, commissioners. Any questions for the applicant.

L

I have a question um so I live two minutes away from this development and I've been very outspoken about homeless, shelters that come into the area. The fortitude center, and one of the comments that was made was that there will be management, security and operations plan.

L

That is exactly what we were promised when the fortitude uh rehab center. I don't know what we call. The halfway house was built by my house that wasn't present when things went sideways. To put it politely, so my children go to school one mile away from this development, even though I'm sympathetic to what we're trying to do here being someone who's lost a family member to opioid addiction. I just don't think the neighborhood can handle that. uh Can you explain to us why we're choosing glendale for yet another research resource center.

G

Yeah, it was a matter really of looking at properties that were available for purchase at the time. It wasn't that we specifically selected a particular neighborhood when we found the property on redwood road. That was in the condition and the price. It seemed like a good idea to pursue that for the benefit of the community in general, in salt lake county, and so really that it was more of availability and price and location. We thought was was good as well.

T

I just want to clarify that, not at all a resource center. um This is for detox services. It has nothing specifically to do with um population experiencing homelessness, um and the existing facility on brooklyn avenue in the ballpark neighborhood has been there for 35 plus years with virtually no problems.

T

um Ballpark, certainly, you know: we've all heard that there have been issues in the area um otherwise, but not concerning this facility. So it is a very a very different facility with a very different operations. Plan, however, still want to be proactive and mitigate any possible concerns in the neighborhood, because you- and I have talked on that street- about these issues.

I

So what it's enlightened me about what this service and operations plan would include. What kind of things like I don't.

G

Know so tell tell me um and sue I'm sure you can help with this as well, but it is a detoxification center is a program where a resource centers is a place for people to live and they come and they go freely in a detoxification center people check in they admit to the facility they admit to the program, and then we have they stay in the facility until they discharge or if we give them a pass to go to a particular location.

G

So it's a very structured kind of an intervention where we're trying to keep people very safe during that initial period of time when they stop using alcohol and drugs. So we are supervising all the time they're within and close. They stay within the building.

G

We have meals in the building case management as well, and even efforts to help people move on to substance addiction treatment. So they really don't go anywhere and that's part of how we keep people safe during that critical period. And what else would you say sue? I think you covered it.

I

So how do people arrive at the facility? How do they know about it? How do they, where do they come from? Are they sober when they get there? What what's going on here? Thank.

T

You just to clarify it's a 30-day residential program. Completely voluntary people show up asking for our services, and currently, we've had to turn people away pretty consistently with the onset of covid to try and reduce the number of people coming into the center doubled the time period. It was a 14-day program doubled it to 30 days found out that in doing so, all the data showed that this was a far more productive program.

T

So in doubling the number of days people are there, we need more space, so hence the much bigger building to be able to bring them in. um So as far as advertising to bring people in or anything like that, we don't have to um the the word is out having been in the community for 35 plus years. At this point, so people come to us.

I

They just show up on your doorstep, or they are they brought in from hospitals. um Yes,.

L

I

Bring them in I mean I'm, I'm.

S

K

I

How it's accessed by the public.

E

Right, yes, so people can walk up to the door and ask for services. We have many folks families calling for beds we partner with hospitals that also want to discharge folks and get that kind of detox wrap around services at our programs as a step down from the hospital we also partner with police many times, they'll they'll bring folks that they find intoxicated to our facility so that they can get services as opposed to going to jail, and so yes, we have referrals from all over the place really purely.

T

Voluntary never forced does that mean they can also leave at any time they want during those 30 days. It's not an in and out I mean it's not a jail.

Q

S

T

They can leave yes um at you know, day 12 whatever, um however, once they're in they're in until they leave, but if you leave, then you've got to restart.

E

And our staff work really hard to engage with them and build that trust, because part of that is people coming in you know many of them are intoxicated when they come, and so our staff really work hard to build that connection, so they staying longer so that they can get connected to those treatment. Services.

L

Got it and you did mention that they can be given a hall pass during those 30 days.

E

For specific things um like going to a doctor or court, or something like that,.

L

Got him okay and that that's one of the things that I actually have an issue with just my experience in the neighborhood with the 42 treatment center. If the other members here are not familiar with that, it's a halfway house for uh people coming out of jail and.

T

L

Exactly and there were even hall passes, one of them left in 2016 killed a police officer and we were told that they were all going to be supervised and they're all non-violent offenders. But that does not matter when rubber hits the road and you're there. So to.

T

Be clear: fortitude did change its policy so that it was less supervised and more violent offenders. Frankly, um however, again all voluntary um fortitude was is not a voluntary setup. That's uh you know. If you're coming out of jail, you've got to go into this halfway house to step down towards into the community. This is purely voluntary. If people are coming here, they want to be there.

G

The other good thing about the 30-day stay now is that there we can transition more people directly into treatment during operation rio grande. There was an expansion of treatment services. Then, when medicaid expanded, we also had opportunities to expand treatment services.

G

The first step to go to treatment is usually detoxification, so you have to like stop using let your body heal, eat, drink water and just make a decision about what you want to do next and many of them. While they are living with us, decide they want to get clean and sober and go to treatment. We have a lot more options now in the community, where we can directly connect people and make sure that they get directly there safely. So that's another real benefit for the longer the longer stay.

C

Okay, thank you sure um we will uh move on to the public hearing.

S

I've got a question.

C

O

P

L

Done with the program and they leave the facility, where do.

F

T

That's up to them.

K

E

We are working on a transportation program. If people need that, but yeah, it really is up to them. Some go back to their families, some go into treatment, um it all depends on the individual, a.

A

Lot, we probably just go back to the street. Some do.

T

But um we also have, we do have case management in place um so that we've got now that we have 30 days rather than just 14 days to work with this client and connect them with whatever resources they may need for day 31. um So to go into a positive housing scenario um to have the vital documents that they need to be able to move on to a better direction in life or, of course, to you, know best case scenario, to get into a long-term substance, use disorder. Bed.

C

Okay: okay, let's um move on to the public comment period and then hang tight and then we'll bring it back to us after that, um I'm gonna open it up to the public. um I'm gonna, officially open the public comment period. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak?

C

Please go ahead.

S

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here tonight thanks for your time. My name is brennan moss, I'm a real estate attorney in salt lake city. I represent the building owner of this building in the top left corner here that you can see kind of this utah shape, and it's up in that corner. The building has been there for quite some time and it houses.

S

Professional services like you, know, engineers um attorney-type people, and it is interested in um maintaining that that type of clientele not destroying the neighborhood, not damaging the economic activity and continuing the quiet enjoyment they have right. Now we do not oppose the voa's mission or its goal. In fact it's very admirable and in fact we don't well.

S

We currently oppose the current plan because we don't think it fully mitigates all of the impact that it will have, um but we do not oppose the plan if there is mitigation and on page four, what it says is from the voa.

S

It says from the exterior the building and the program will look like and operate in a manner similar to the neighboring commercial businesses on redwood road and the staff echoed that in their report on page four, where they say the proposed use will not be out of character for the area and will not introduce any new or significant impacts beyond those of the current use and other uses in the vicinity.

S

Now I don't, if you look at the plan, there's two major issues that we have one is loitering and they claim that they will control loitering. But if you look at the plan, it only talks about that control as it relates to residents in the program.

S

People are free to check out at any moment and also, as we heard, not everyone's allowed into the program.

S

So, what's going to happen with individuals that come to the door and then are not allowed in the program or people that stay for 1, 5, 15 20 days and then leave a lot of those people will return to the streets, and we don't want this to turn into a homeless congregation area like it has on our temple or other areas in the city and without a proper mitigation plan for people that are attracted to the program. But that are not allowed in the program.

S

We don't think that the conditional use can be um properly approved because that mitigation has not been provided so.

C

This is going to be time if you want to just state your second point I'll. Let you.

S

I thank you for the extra time, but the second point was just the smoking issue. They had. We addressed it. They said that our numbers were exaggerated.

S

um If that's the case, and they want this to look like other businesses, we would propose some sort of limitation so that smoking breaks that this place look and like smoking breaks at any other place, so a limitation on types of numbers. Last point: we.

C

Did get your letter and I did read it, it was in our staff report, the.

S

Location of their smoking area on the west side- it's not on here we've we had a meeting. Finally with them, and it's on this um north east side, which you can see from that building. um We just think there needs to be more detail, so we know if it's mitigated or not uh the impact.

C

S

C

You thank you, mr moss.

C

Okay. That was the one card I had after so um anyone.

S

C

Who wishes to speak on that item? Any emails?

C

Okay, I will officially close the public comment period. Kelsey. I officially closed the football country we'll.

R

C

It back to the commission and discuss I will, I will just say, because we have a number of new members.

C

The state law directs us for conditional use that we evaluate that it that the applicant is reasonably mitigating, so the standard of fully mitigating is not a directive of state law, and I just want to point that out as we work to educate ourselves on what kind of the parameters of our legal ability to to vote on, but definitely public comment that was in mr mason and the letter that he put in there um does talk about.

C

You know our role being to identify those potential detrimental impacts and then to um determine that they are reasonably being tried to mitigate, um and that is unsatisfactory to a lot of people in some ways, but that's kind of the role that we have to play in looking at those potential detrimental impacts and if there is certain things that you think could be handled slightly different to reasonably mitigate. That is certainly up for you know conversation, um but that's, that's!

C

uh That's our purview under state law, so, commissioners, any um discussion, items um for the applicant or ourselves.

R

K

Go ahead, yeah.

L

Go ahead, andre! I just wanted to see if the applicants had any response to the items brought up by them.

C

Yeah they I mean they did in the staff report, but if there was additional items you wanted to bring up, please do to.

T

C

Those points that were raised.

T

Let's see there was the smoking issue, um I would say that there is a lot of parking lot around this building um and the numbers of people within the building with the new uses are going to be significantly fewer than would have been allowed currently as the call center under zion's bank. um So we're reducing the number of people and the same smoking laws exist that you know you go outside, so I would say exactly what the um gentleman's final comment was that it be the same as any other use in the area.

T

It is um with the sole exception that we are actually because this is a detox facility. We have men's and women's facilities in there it'll be on different floors, definitely separated, and so we're going to have two very specific and enclosed smoking areas for those two different programs on different sides of the building, so it will actually break it up and um separate it far, greater than wouldn't normally be the case.

J

Did you stay in closed smoking areas.

T

G

T

G

Covered they're um right they'll be a fenced in walkway from the door to the smoking area so that it's still controlled access from inside of the facility. Only.

T

And then with big concerns regarding loitering, uh of course, we have no control over random people. That may happen by, um but the whole point of this building is to double the size of the program so that we can accept everybody and that needs that help so based on the numbers that we are currently turning away.

T

This growth will give us a large margin of error. Some large room for growth in the future so should definitely reasonably mitigate any of those concerns too.

G

I also will also be having exterior camera systems so that we can monitor what's happening outside of the facility and help people get to where they need to be, whether that's inside or elsewhere,.

C

And I believe you mentioned in the your response to those concerns in the staff report that you would put together some sort of a kind of a community group where you would be touching base with various people. Would that property owner be welcomed into that group.

T

Absolutely so the neighborhood advisory councils, which we currently do in other spaces that we operate yes specifically to engage with everyone in the neighborhood, especially the immediate vicinity, but business owners residents. uh Anyone and everyone yeah that particular owner.

G

Lives in california, but maybe he would have a representative that could join us.

C

Certainly, there's got to be somebody who works there, who's like management, that.

G

C

Be uh would be knowing what's going on on the ground yeah. um I think that would be. You know if this goes through, that your advisory council definitely reach out to those adjacent um properties. Yeah.

T

So leading up to this, I have knocked on every door within a half-mile radius.

C

So if they were part of the advisory council to identify potential issues that are arising to help um continually reason to continue to reasonably mitigate them, brenda do you have some comments.

I

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised. I don't see a landscape plan in here. I do see a site plan, but it's basically all parking and we don't have any indication of where your smoking areas would be or and there's no indication that there might be any other kind of landscaping outside that would be accessible to your guests. uh To your um david.

C

Would you like to talk about landscaping requirements in this zone if there are any.

I

And um you know so one of the things which would help maybe mitigate the whole smoking issue and loitering issue is if we actually had fenced in uh areas that had landscaping trees, not just parking lot fixed in where people could could have some ability to go outside but be protected, and also perhaps where those are located is pretty important, because that sort of sets up. um You know the the idea that this is it's really an office building, nothing to look at here.

I

uh You know so those could be in the rear or they could be a more sheltered kind of position.

A

Okay, um it's a change of use on an existing building, so we weren't looking at what those landscape requirements were because they're not required to change the landscaping.

A

So what is there is existing as far as the identification in the floor plan of where the smoking areas are- and I think the applicant can speak more to this they're working with an architect to design the interior of the building, but that may not have been fully identified yet so we were just looking at the use, although those understandably are some of the parameters that are going to go into the building.

I

I understand that that might be part of a condition that would be. That would be. That would mitigate some of the uh things which uh were a part of the community's issues or uh might in fact be a benefit to the residents as well.

A

T

If I may, there's um the exact placement of the smoking areas are going to be determined a lot based on the layout of the interior. As we figure out the best layout there, then we can determine which door to use for that. um So that's why the lack of specificity. At this point, and as far as green greenery offsetting it you can see along the whole top glendale golf course is the entire section and then on just the other side of that is the jordan river corridor.

T

So there is certainly a fair amount of greenery very nearby, but as far as chopping into the parking lot, um yeah we're frankly focusing our funding on the interior. At this point,.

G

We do have an architect with us. um Also peggy mcdonough is the president from mhtn and um we'll we'll certainly continue to work on the design, and I appreciate your comments about trying to provide in our smoking area downtown. We do have a little garden spot in it that provides some not only an activity for people to participate in, but also a little bit of greenery. We are trying to provide a pleasant environment for people to recover in. I appreciate your comments on that.

R

Are you using um part of the building you're going to be using for this group home and part of it will be your offices for someone else you're using the entire building.

G

We have almost right now as it stands. We have about 2500 square feet only that is not designed out. Okay, so we'll be, our administrative offices will be there upstairs. Our cornerstone counseling center will be up the upstairs, which also provides additional support for the detox people and then there's a little bit of space left that we might lease out to another organization.

R

Well, one of the one of the things I think we have to consider change of use is, if there'll be like new problems that need to be mitigated right. So I looked up your existing and one of the public comments said. We can't have the same problems as we have at brooklyn avenue, which is your current detox, smaller facility, and I looked that up in the um like the newspaper article quoted darren, who was the city council person? I think for that neighborhood and amy.

T

Amy hawkins would be the.

R

Ballpark community council right- and they both said um in the article that they really wanted it to stay a detox center, because that doesn't cause any problems. They didn't want it to change to a resource center because that that would be a different set of problems, but they both were like. This is not a problem property right now, so let's just leave it that way. So maybe that we can anticipate that same kind of uh situation at this new facility.

R

For you, that's what I think.

C

Okay, commissioners, um I'm open to emotion or if we have further discussion.

R

I'm looking for the sheet.

J

I'd like to make a motion, thank you. uh Based on the analysis and findings in the staff report, the information presented the input received during the public hearing. I move that the planning commission approve conditional use application, pln pcm 2022.

J

Conditional use for the volunteers of america, large group home, subject, subject to the conditions list in the staff report as follows: number one: compliance with all other city department conditions and requirements and number two adoption of an adherence to the procedures and principles outlining the management, security and operations plan, including the narrative submitted by the voa. As part of this application.

C

A second okay: I have a motion from andra and a second from amy. Let's go ahead and take a vote levi.

T

C

L

M

C

J

C

Brenda, yes, rick.

L

C

Amy, yes, adrian, yes and andreas.

A

I will vote yes.

C

Okay, that motion passes with.

C

Eight yeses and nine or one, no, um so congratulations and thank you for your patience. I.

S

Can't even count.

C

Anymore, so I appreciate you hanging on.

T

Thank you very much. Thank you.

C

Thank you. That concludes the public hearing portion of our agenda and I will um I will let you know that the other business has been postponed. I.

B

Don't know, do you want us to put on a presentation about policies and procedures for another hour.

C

Yeah, I will just say before I adjourn: um will you uh communicate to michaela if we could also include in this policy and procedures, update looking at what we have or the lack of what we have for decorum and in that section, because we don't have any real teeth?

C

If we could just include that in this round, then we don't have to go back to it. um Otherwise, what did I say, decorum, no decorum how we act yeah, all right with that we are adjourned. Thank you. Everyone.

I

Get one of these right I am, I have a billion.

I