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From YouTube: SJAA Astronomy Talk: Launching to Mars in 2020
Description
Topic: Launching to Mars in 2020, a Primer on the NASA Perseverance Rover’s Mission to Return Samples and Search for Life on Mars.
Speaker: J.R. Skok, PhD, Planetary Scientist, SETI Institute
Description:
NASA is launching the Perseverance Rover to Mars in July 2020. This Rover will be the first in a three-step, $10 billion process to return samples from one of the most interesting places on Mars and provide our best chance of finding evidence of past life on the red planet. SETI Institute scientist, J.R. Skok, has been working on the Perseverance Rover Landing Site selection process since 2012 and will share the story about how NASA committed to a Sample Return Mission to Mars and how the scientific community decided where on the planet we should search for life. This talk will give you the deep background for the mission and help set the stage for understanding NASA’s efforts on Mars for the next few decades.
Speaker Bio:
John Roma (J.R.) Skok, Ph.D. is a planetary scientist working as Research Scientist at the SETI Institute. Dr. Skok’s life and work focus has been on the exploration of Mars and the development of a human future in space. Dr. Skok has been involved in Martian studies since 2000 and has been a member of NASA's Mars Exploration Rovers and Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter teams. Since 2006, he has been working to study landing sites for the Curiosity and Perseverance (Mars2020) Rovers and partnering with NASA to develop and test the next generation of Mars missions.
A
A
We
have
been
around
for
many
many
years
and
we
have
been
always
been
a
very
active
club,
but
given
the
the
whole
kovit
situation,
we
are
now
actively
trying
to
take
our
presence
online
and
that's
where
we're
coming
from
right
now,
where
we're
trying
to
do
these
events
that
we
used
to
do
at
our
base
camp
in
in
san
jose
virtually
and
bring
them
to
you
over
youtube
now
and
hopefully
reach
more
audience
that
way.
Because
it's
it's
now
you
can.
Anyone
in
the
world
can
join
us
from
anywhere.
A
A
Also.
We
have
done
solar
viewing
that
way,
which
we
used
to
do
again
at
hoogie
park
once
a
month
and
unfortunately,
some
other
programs,
such
as
a
fix-it
program
which
helps
you
bring
in
your
telescope.
If
you
need
any
help
with
that
or
a
loaner
program
where
you
get
to
load,
the
equipment
are
currently
on
hold,
but
hopefully
with
the
restrictions,
lifting
maybe
we'll
be
able
to
go
back
to
it
soon.
A
But
this
is
an
attempt
to
do
our
best
to
reach
continue
the
outreach,
which
is
the
main
mission
of
sga.
So
if
you
have
any
feedback,
any
questions
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
any
of
us.
I
will
type
up
the
links
in
the
chat
channel
very
very
soon.
You
can
use
to
reach
to
us,
and
just
just
you
can
take
it
from
there
and
of
course
there
will
be
some
membership
information
as
well.
A
If
you
go
to
our
website,
it's
just
20
dollars
for
you
for
a
year,
so
as
wolf,
apparently
one
of
our
directors
likes
to
say
it's
just
one
price,
one
pizza
like
cost
of
a
pizza,
so
you
can
definitely
consider
joining
us
as
a
member.
If
that's
something
interests
you
now
coming
to
our
talk
for
today,
we
are
very
fortunate
to
have
a
speaker
who
has
given
us
a
great
talk
before
j.r
scott
he's,
a
planetary
scientist
working
at
seti,
and
I
think
his
his
life.
A
B
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
that
wonderful
introduction.
I
look
forward
to
sharing
some
of
my
insight
with
the
perseverance
rover.
That's
going
to
be
launching,
hopefully
at
the
end
of
this
month,
due
to
some
challenges
with
the
some
last
minute
engineering.
It
has
been
slipping
a
little
bit,
but
the
current
launch
date
was
at
the
end
of
july
to
get
to
mars,
so
you
know
we're
starting
off
with
this
initial
kind
of
slide.
This
is
an
image
I
love
from
art.
B
Nasa
has
created
the
evolution
of
a
martian
showing
from
the
pathfinder
rover
all
the
way
in
the
the
small
rover
on
the
side
that
landed
on
mars
in
1997
the
two
spirit
and
opportunity,
rovers
that
came
in
2004
and
kept
us
taught
us
about
water
on
mars.
I
was
fortunate
enough
to
work
on
the
camera
team
for
both
of
those
missions,
turning
grayscale
color
image,
grayscale
images
of
the
surface
into
color,
panoramas
and
other
kind
of
visual
products.
B
The
curiosity
and
then
perseverance
rover
are
these
two
much
larger
rovers
and
hopefully
someday.
We
can
look
forward
to
having
these
human
footsteps
on
mars.
So
after
working
on
the
camera
team
for
the
two
spirit
opportunity
rovers
during
my
undergrad
experience
at
cornell,
I
went
and
as
a
graduate
student
started
working
on
a
mars
reconnaissance
orbiter
looking
at
data
images
of
the
surface
of
mars,
and
a
lot
of
that
was
looking
at
landing
sites
for
both
curiosity
and
later
on
for
perseverance.
B
B
B
So,
first,
why
are
we
launching
now?
You
know
what
is
this
month's
july,
especially
so
important,
so
it
turns
out
because
of
the
orbits
of
earth
and
mars,
every
about
two
two
and
a
half
years,
the
planets
kind
of
align
on
the
same
side
of
the
sun
for
these
close
approaches,
and
so
we
see
the
this
one.
This
map
here
kind
of
was
focused
on
the
last
close
approach
from
2018
this
kind
of
the
orange
circle.
There
is
a
kind
of
close
approach
about
6
57
million
kilometers.
B
So
in
order
it
takes
about
eight
months
or
so
for
the
current
rockets
to
kind
of
fly
to
mars.
So
the
way
that
the
kind
of
orbital
mechanics
work,
the
least
amount
of
energy.
The
least
amount
of
time
happens
when
we
launch
about
three
to
four
months
before
this
close
approach
and
then
arrive
there
about
three
or
four
months
after
and
that's
the
most
efficient
way
to
get
to
mars
and
why
we're
launching
now
so
unprecedented
in
the
history
of
mars
exploration,
four
missions
originally
planning
to
go
this
summer.
B
Unfortunately,
the
european
rover
from
issa
the
rosalind
franklin,
was
going
to
go
and
drill
for
organic
materials,
but
due
to
delays
with
the
copic
pandemic,
they
weren't
able
to
meet
the
very
tight
astronomical
limits
of
launching
this
year.
So
that's
been
postponed
to
the
2022
timeframe,
but
we
still
have
three
missions
from
three
different
countries
that
are
going
to
be
launching.
Hopefully,
this
summer
the
us
is
sending
the
perseverance
rover
also
called
mars
2020
that
will
be
launching
by
the
end
of
july.
B
B
That's
supposed
to
be
launching
in
the
next
few
weeks,
depending
on
weather
and
a
few
other
concerns,
and
then
the
uae
is
launching
a
mission
called
hope
that
is
going
to
be
their
first
mission
to
mars
and
try
to
understand
the
climate,
history
and
atmospheres
of
the
red
planet.
So
hopefully,
all
these
missions
will
be
reaching
mars
early
2021
and
provide
unprecedented
international
exploration
and
views
of
the
planet.
So,
even
though
each
one
is
a
different
nation
kind
of
working
separately,
we'll
have
this
three
different
nations
provided,
hopefully
at
the
same
time.
B
B
Telescopes
would
start
before
focusing
on
mars
and
start
to
see
more
features
and
sketch
them
out,
and
so,
if
you
had
a
telescope-
and
you
looked
at
it
in
october-
looked
at
mars
in
october-
you
can
actually
see
features
like
this,
so
even
in
a
small
telescope
in
a
dark
area,
you
start
to
see
features
like
this
in
a
small
telescope
that
they're,
probably
drawing
you,
can
see
a
dark
feature.
You
know
it's
not
quite
clear
from
this
resolution
whether
or
not
it's
a
you
know.
B
Maybe
it's
a
volcano,
a
large-scale
volcano
or
it's
a
possibly
an
ocean.
If
this
is
all
you
have
to
go
for
so
there's
still
questions
about
what
this
was,
but
they
started
understanding
and
identifying
features
of
the
planet.
You
saw
possibly
polar
caps
too,
making
mars
feel
a
bit
more
earth-like
than
an
alien
planet
might
otherwise
be
so
a
year
after
every
two
years
for
a
few
centuries
from
the
1600s
to
1800s
scientists
around
the
world
would
observe
mars
and
start
to
draw
features.
B
Some
of
these
would
show
some
more
lineations
channels
in
the
sharp
rally
and
italian
astronomer.
This
was
translated
and
seen
as
canals,
which
has
a
distinctly
human
kind
of
intelligent
life
kind
of
connotation,
and
around
this
time
we
saw
mars
as
like.
Another
planet
extended
planet
that
possibly
was
earth-like
in
a
place
that
was
habitable.
Maybe
you
know
the
polar
caps
of
mars
fed
a
earth-like
planet.
Earth-Like
planet
had
poor
caps.
Here,
maybe
the
dark
parts
were
oceans.
B
B
The
idea
that
aliens
on
mars
were
dangerous
was
definitely
a
bit
of
science
fiction,
but
the
idea
that
life
could
be
on
mars
was
firmly
a
possibility
for
what
scientists
were
searching
for
when
we
wanted
to
understand
the
red
planet,
and
so
this
began
to
change
when
we
could
finally
go
there
and
look
for
it.
So,
in
the
middle
of
the
space
race
in
1965,
we
had
our
first
ever
images
close-up
images
of
another
planet
with
the
mariner
4
flyby
mission.
B
This
was
the
first
evidence
where
mars
was
more
moon-like
than
earth-like,
which
kind
of
changed
how
we
viewed
it
for
life
and
if
you
notice
on
this
image
here
of
mars
and
kind
of
the
location,
these
little
white
boxes,
of
where
these
first
21
images
are.
If
you
know
much
about
mars,
you
know
olympus
mons.
You
can
see
in
the
center
of
this
image
that
wasn't
images.
The
largest
volcano
on
the
planet
was
not
images.
The
polar
caps
were
not
image.
B
Yes,
the
result
of
this
first
mariner
formation
is
it
kind
of
really
shook
our
view.
We
no
longer
saw
mars
as
another
living
earth
in
the
same
way,
but
maybe
even
within
a
desert
planet
that
could
preserve
craters.
There
could
still
be
some
back
life
there.
I
could
have
excited,
for
this
is
a
image
that
I
love
from
a
national
geographic
article
written
by
carl
sagan
in
1967,
so
he
was
trying
to
fit
in
life
within
the
concept
of
mars.
B
That
marina
four
created
sure
it
was
a
desert,
but
maybe
it
was
a
desert
arizona
where
life
can
still
sometimes
exist.
We
could
have
you
know
mars,
cactus
and
mars.
Jackrabbits
going
around
a
desert
world,
that's
consistent
with
the
craters
that
we
saw
so
a
few
years
later,
in
the
mid
70s,
we
sent
the
viking
missions
actually
to
land
on
the
planet
and
see
what
was
going
down
on
the
surface.
B
We,
the
vikings
included
an
orbiter,
so
use
mariner
data
to
kind
of
understand
some
of
the
places
to
land,
as
well
as
using
orbiter
data
from
viking
itself,
which
imaged
the
planet
to
try
and
find
the
safest
places
to
land.
We
couldn't
really
have
much
landing
site
control
back
in
the
70s,
so
we
needed
a
vast
area
that
was
flat.
B
B
B
So
eventually,
they
found
places
that
were
safe
in
utopia
and
increasing
nisha
that
the
landers
could
land
safely.
Hopefully,
so
they
sent
down
these
kind
of
large
scales
to
go
and
take
the
first
images
of
ours
and
they
found
these.
These
are
the
first
ever
images
from
a
landed
craft
on
mars
and
we
found
rocks.
B
B
That's
diagrammed
here
to
kind
of
do
a
life
experiment
where
we
could
take
some
soil,
add
some
nutrients
and
see
if
some
of
the
biological
processes
happen
and
measure
the
gases
that
might
come
off
and
now,
if
we
take
this
sort
of
device-
and
we
put
it
anywhere
in
the
world-
so
if
you
go
to
the
atacama
desert
or
death
valley
places
that
look
a
lot
like
this
as
far
as
life
is
barren.
If
we
start
to
actually
look
give
nutrients
to
the
soil
on
earth,
wherever
we
go,
life
starts
to
live.
B
Like
there's
microbes
in
every
part
of
earth,
so
even
though
some
places
look
like
mars
on
earth,
microbes
are
everywhere.
So
we
were
hoping.
The
same
thing
happened
for
mars,
but
it
turned
out
that
this
experiment
didn't
work
or
it
didn't
result
in
any
sort
of
signs
of
life
and
this
kind
of
put
off
nasa
from
exploring
mars
for
so
long,
because
the
whole
idea
is
to
go
find
life,
and
that
was
the
interesting
part
of
the
planet.
B
B
This
started
changing
in
the
1990s
and
early
90s.
We
tried
to
send
a
really
big
mission
to
mars
as
an
orbiter
to
understand
it,
but
that
failed.
The
early
90s
saw
a
couple
of
failures
and
a
big
expensive
missions
to
go
back,
and
a
lot
of
that
is
because,
after
gaining
all
the
experience
of
landing
on
mars
in
the
70s,
those
scientists,
those
engineers
all
retired-
and
we
need
to
relearn
this
hard
process
of
going
to
mars.
B
B
It
was
just
going
to
land
down
into
mars
and
produce
this
little
rover
that
go
around
and
kind
of
explore,
but
scientists
during
these
20
years
were
not
stale.
They
had
all
this
data
from
viking,
the
orbiters
to
kind
of
understand
the
planet,
and
when
they
looked
from
the
orbit
they
found
evidence
of
water
flowing
on
the
surface
in
a
place.
You
can
see
this
image
here
in
the
bottom
middle.
B
You
know
very
interesting
as
far
as
understanding
the
composition
of
multiple
volcanoes,
some
possibly
coatings,
but
for
the
most
part
it
found
volcanic
rocks,
and
so
this
kind
of
idea,
from
viking
of
searching
for
life
on
mars
changed
to
this
new
era
of
searching
for
water.
You
know
we
know
on
earth
wherever
there's
water,
there's
life,
sea
or
evidence
could
be
water
on
mars.
B
So
we
started
this
era
of
searching
for
water
with
every
mission,
so
this
rover
showed
that
we
can
now
land
payloads
again
on
the
surface
of
mars,
but
wasn't
so
conclusive
in
finding
evidence
of
this
past
water.
The
next
mission
started
in
1997.
This
was
the
mars
global
surveyor,
the
first
orbiter
since
viking
to
actually
observe
the
planet,
and
this
returned
high
resolution
images.
We
saw
gullies
another
place
where
there
possibly
was
water
moving.
We
saw
delta
features
places
where
water
would
have
flown
a
long
time
ago.
B
B
That's
where
this
vision
of
this
kind
of
very
flat,
you
can
see
the
blue
areas
on
the
top
of
mars,
where
it's
very
flat
and
much
rougher
more
older.
Therefore,
more
cratered
surfaces
in
the
southern
part,
and
so
this
kind
of
set
the
different
terrains
of
mars
that
we
can
start
to
explore
and
understand.
B
So
those
kind
of
learning
of
how
to
land
the
small
rover,
our
small
lander,
with
pathfinder
and
sojourner,
led
to
this
desire
to
send
a
larger
rover.
This
was
the
mars
exploration
rovers
and
we
used
the
data
from
mars,
global
surveyor
and
honestly,
you
understand
where
we
should
go,
so
they
two
different
strategies
on
their
type,
one
where
they
wanted
to
land.
One
was
morphological:
they
went
to
a
goose
of
crater,
you
see
at
the
bottom
corner
here,
it's
a
large
crater
that
has
this
big
channel
into
it.
B
The
idea
was
that
this
was
once
a
lake.
So
if
we
land
there,
we
should
be
able
to
find
lake
deposits
and
evidence
of
water
in
the
past,
possibly
point
to
where
life
could
be
this
image
over
here,
where
it
says
global
mapping.
That
was
a
image
from
surveyor,
sorry
from
global
surveyor,
as
well
as
more
odyssey.
That
was
a
hematite,
a
big
mineral
signature.
We
saw
no
evidence
of
water
there,
but
we
saw
minerals
that
indicated
the
water
formed,
and
that
is
where
we
sent
the
opportunity
motor.
B
So
one
was
sent
from
morphology
and
one
set
for
mineralogy
and
both
of
these
missions
found
stunning
water
evidence,
the
first
one,
the
spirit
landed.
It
landed
in
this
big
volcanic
plane.
So
when
it
landed
just
on
the
crater
floor,
it
found
really
nothing
but
dry
volcanics,
but
then
it
drove
over
to
this
columbia,
hills
complex
and
found
these
ancient
terrains
that
popped
up
through
the
volcanics
and
allowed
us
to
explore
ancient
mars.
B
They
found
silica
deposits
and
possibly
a
hydrothermal
system
where
we
had
volcanic
heated
waters
that
then
deposited
and
really
became
a
place
that
could
perhaps
support
it
and
preserve
evidence
of
life.
Unfortunately,
the
spirit
rover
stopped
working
before
it
was
able
to
fully
explore
the
site,
and
it
didn't
really
have
the
right
instruments
to
actually
look
for
evidence
of
life
there.
But
this
was
a
site
that
was
of
interest
to
scientists
when
us
opportunity
landed
at
meridiani.
B
They
found
these
concretions
when
they
first
found
land
and
that
should
be
concretions
formed
in
water.
I
apparently
took
out
the
w
there,
but
that
was
as
soon
as
land
it
found
that
there
was
evidence
of
vast
amount
of
water
in
the
area
and
has
spent
years
exploring
the
region
finding
evidence
of
deficient
environment,
water
flow,
different,
more
creations
and
even
some
possible
file,
silica
alteration,
minerals
that
would
have
altered
in
warm
wet
waters
towards
the
end
of
its
mission.
So
this
mission
found
you
know
when
we
say
found
water
on
mars.
B
This
was
where
we
found
it
in
abundance.
On
the
surface,
then,
in
2006
kind
of
the
main
orbital
workhorse
of
mars
science
kind
of
came
online,
the
mark
constantine-
and
this
was
a
mission
I
worked
on
as
a
graduate
student.
I
worked
on
the
chrism
instrument,
an
instrument
that
used
spectroscopy
to
understand
the
mineralogy,
especially
the
alteration
clay
mineralogy
of
mars,
to
understand
where
water
was
on
the
planet,
and
this
had
a
high
resolution
imager.
So
we
could
see
active
mars,
see
more
dust
devils
as
well
as
see
landslides
happening.
B
We
could
see
high
resolution
craters,
seeing
even
images
of
the
rover
from
space,
so
this
was
a
instrument
that
allowed
us
to
understand
the
composition.
The
high
resolution
imaging
all
these
pieces
of
data
that
we
needed
to
kind
of
target
where
images
should
land
in
the
bottom
corner.
Here
we
show
how,
compared
to
previous
mars,
odyssey
or
mts
have
like
these
mars
data,
like
those
of
the
mgs,
which
kind
of
was
the
first
mission
to
really
orbit
mars
since
the
70s.
B
B
B
B
Not
only
are
there
could
there
be
water
which
we
knew
would
be
there,
but
could
organic
chemistry
start
to
happen?
So
we
sent
a
laboratory
instruments
that
actually
look
for
organic
molecules,
which
I
was
able
to
find
and
know
that.
Not
only
would
life
water
be
here,
but
the
basic
chemistry
of
life
could
be,
but
not
quite
the
instruments
to
actually
find
fossil
life
and
I'll
get
bit
more
into
that.
B
When
we
talk
about
the
next
generation
of
missions,
then
in
2018
the
last
time
we
could
go
around
mars
nasa
sent
the
insight
lander.
You
know,
after
years
of
imaging
the
surface
of
mars,
they
wanted
to
explore
the
interior,
and
this
was
a
seismometer,
a
single
seismometer
that
was
going
to
listen
to
mars
quakes
and
try
to
understand
what's
going
on
inside
mars.
So
we
understand
the
atmospheres
of
mars
the
climate
we
understand,
surface,
12
images
and
now
to
understand
the
interior
of
mars.
B
Along
this
time,
issa
has
been
saying
the
mars
express,
as
well
as
the
trace
gas
orbiter,
to
do
another
set
of
imaging
to
understand
the
they
found
possible
water,
salt,
salty
lakes
underneath
mars
near
the
southern
polar
cap
and
a
lot
of
different
features
across
the
planet.
So
yeah
as
nasa
has
been
dominating
a
lot
of
the
mars
exploration,
but
there's
been
a
very
important
contribution
by
the
european
space
agency
to
kind
of
explore
in
different
wavelengths
and
different
types
of
data
that
have
helped
us
understand
the
red
planet.
B
So
here's
a
little
kind
of
summary
of
you
know
see
we
see
some
of
the
different
landing
sites
across
the
planet,
so
the
idea
here
is
that
mars
has
become
incredibly
well
explored
in
this
last
25
years.
Since
the
mid-90s
we've
gone
back,
we
see
spirit,
explorer,
phoenix
up,
north
biking
and
this
whole
armada
of
satellites
orbiting
the
planet
and
bringing
back
data.
B
So
this
constellation
of
missions
of
landers
rovers
orbiters
have
allowed
us
to
understand
the
planet
in
great
detail,
and
it
is
this
kind
of
setting
that
sets
the
stage
for
what
we
want
to
do
next
on
the
red
planet.
So
what
is
next?
The
next
is
this
perseverance
rover
and
the
process
of
sample
return.
B
B
This
is
when
spirit
opportunity
were
doing
an
incredibly
successful
job,
exploring
the
planet,
transforming
our
understanding
about
the
environments
on
the
mars
and
everyone
was
getting
excited
about,
sending
the
curiosity
rover
to
launch
2011
and
land
in
2012,
and
we
are
about
to
have
a
decadal
survey.
So
the
decadal
survey
I'll
talk
a
lot
more
in
the
next
few
slides
helps
guide.
It
happens
about
every
10
years
and
helps
guide
the
motivation
for
what
nasa
is
going
to
do.
B
So.
With
that
context,
the
decadal
survey
happened
around
the
2010
time
frame,
it's
kind
of
done
at
the
request
of
nasa
done
by
the
national
academy
of
sciences
and
the
national
research
council,
a
group
of
science
scientific
experts
to
provide
kind
of
the
scientific
community's
recommendation
on
where
they
want
to
explore.
And
so
this
I'm
going
to
be
talking
about
the
planetary
science
group's
effort
to
do
it,
but
astrophysics
groups
at
nasa.
B
They
do
a
similar
process
and
a
few
other
organizations
kind
of
scientific
interest
groups
do
this
to
kind
of
tell
nasa
what
the
scientists
wish
they
were
doing.
So
the
big
thing
to
remember
here
is
that
this
is
done
by
the
community.
They
ask
scientists
to
say
what
do
you
want
to
do
and
they
try
to
compile
that
into
what
they
recommend.
The
scientific
community
recommends
nasa
to
do.
B
It's
non-binding,
so
nasa
doesn't
need
to
follow
it,
but
if
they
don't
kind
of
listen
to
it,
there's
a
lot
of
questions
about
why
so
you
know,
sometimes
a
presidential
administration
might
say:
hey
nasa.
Do
this
instead
and
they'll
probably
follow
the
president's
guideline,
but
if
they
don't
have
that
strong
direction,
they
try
to
follow
the
community
scientist
scientific
consensus
on
what
to
do
as
much
as
possible,
and
the
decadal
survey
is
kind
of
the
boil
down.
You
know
thousands
of
members
of
scientists
and
engineers.
What
do
they
want
to
do
so?
B
B
That
would
kind
of
do
the
same
thing,
but
somewhere
else
so
that
doesn't
fly
at
nasa,
which
is
a
exploration
and
engineering
firm.
More
than
a
kind
of
production
line,
scientific
study
place
and
the
problem
with
the
decade
of
survey
is
all
the
planetary
scientists
is
kind
of
competing
at
it.
So
if
we
say
we
want
to
do
a
mars
mission,
we
have
to
say
why
that
should
be
flown
rather
than
spending
a
few
billion
dollars
to
go
to
europa
or
go
to
enceladus
or
go
to
neptune.
B
All
those
different
planets
are
targets
for
the
same
amount
of
money
for
this
pot.
So
that
was
a
problem.
Is
that
we
needed
to
have?
Would
they
want
the
mars
community
wanted
mission,
but
they
needed
something
that
would
compete
with
places
that
we
haven't
explored
at
all?
The
thing
that
mars
did
have
is
because
we
had
so
much
so
many
missions
in
the
past.
It
created
a
very
large
mars
community.
B
So
all
these
people
wanted,
the
you
know,
keep
studying
mars
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
community
support
and
if
that's,
where
you're
going
for
the
executive
survey,
a
lot
of
people
are
writing
in
on
why
we
should
keep
studying
mars
so
mars
community-
and
I
say
that
very
loosely
right.
It's
a
lot
of
scientists,
working
universities,
research,
centers,
even
international
folks,
who
are
part
of
large
community
trying
to
keep
up
mars
science
into
the
next
decade.
B
So
they
had
the
strategy
of
what
they
need
to
do.
They
needed
to
find
a
mission
that
was
interesting
to
national
engineer,
something
with
real
problems
to
solve
something
that
would
push
beyond
what
curiosity
has
done
and
the
science
must
be
revolutionary.
What
can
we
do?
You
know
we
can't
just
send
another
rover.
We
can't
redo
any
of
the
missions
we've
done
before,
but
somewhere
else.
How
do
we
go
to
the
next
level?
So
the
solution
they
came
up
with
for
this
was
the
mars
sample
return.
B
The
idea
is
that
we
do
not
have
the
technology
to
really
understand
mars.
The
way
we
want
with
any
instrument
we
can
send
to
mars.
So
the
only
way
to
fundamentally
understand
something
interesting
on
mars.
That's
new
is
to
go,
collect
samples
and
bring
them
back,
and
now
nasa
likes
this
kind
of
concept,
because
it
gives
them
a
lot
of
projects
to
do.
They
have
to
create
a
really
good
landing
system
to
land
targeted,
so
they
can
find
the
perfect
samples
they
have
to
figure
out
how
to
collect
samples.
B
They
have
to
figure
out
how
to
return
those
samples
launch
it
from
the
surface
of
their
planet
isru.
How
do
we
actually
use
the
resources
on
mars
to
launch
something
nest
likes
that
it's
a
kind
of
innovation
level
that
keeps
nasa
interested
and
the
science?
The
idea
here
is
that
we
are
actually
after
years,
we
haven't
really
looked
for
life
on
mars
since
biking,
so
it's
over
30
years
ago.
I
guess
you
know
50
50
years
ago
now,
just
about
that
we've
actually
looked
for
life
on
mars.
B
Since
then,
we've
looked
for
water,
we
look
for
habitability,
but
we
never
look
for
life,
so
we're
going
to
actually
have
to
look
for
actual
evidence
of
life
fossils
of
bacteria.
What
we're
actually
calling
biosignatures
is
the
term
for
a
fossil
of
some
sort
on
mars,
so
that
is
the
science
that's
going
to
be
revolutionary.
We
find
evidence
of
life
on
mars
that
will
really
kind
of
change.
How
we
view
life
on
earth
as
well
as
life
in
the
solar
system.
B
The
problem
with
sample
return
is
it's
really
hard,
even
bringing
back
a
small
amount
of
samples,
100
grams
of
samples,
for
example.
It's
like
the
minimum
that's
seen
is
worthwhile.
It's
going
to
cost
about
10
billion
dollars
to
land
on
mars,
pick
up
samples,
launch
them
and
return
them
to
earth,
and
nasa
can't
afford
10
billion
on
any
mission
in
the
course
of
a
decade,
so
any
planet,
that's
looking
for
money
needs
to
kind
of
spend,
maybe
two
to
three
billion
dollars
over
the
course
of
a
decade,
and
so
our
sample
return.
B
They
try
to
break
down
their
strategy
into
three
missions.
One
mission
would
go
to
mars
land.
There
pick
up
samples
and
that's
what
perseverance
rover
will
be
and
then
a
next
mission
in
another
decade
using
another
bunch
of
money
from
another
decade
we'll
go
there,
pick
up
those
samples
launch
them
into
orbit
the
first
time
ever
we
launch
something
from
the
surface
of
mars
and
then
another
man
even
farther
in
the
future,
we'll
pick
up
we're
on
the
view
in
mars,
orbit,
grab
those
and
finally
bring
them
back.
B
B
B
So
it
kind
of
fits
all
these
little
strategies
that
kind
of
fit
into
the
decadal
survey
and
because
so
many
people
in
the
community
support
mars
compared
to
you
know
other
interesting
places
just
from
the
size
of
the
community.
From
past
missions,
there
was
a
lot
of
support
for
this
kind
of
plan,
and
so
when
the
decade
of
survey
had
their
final
results
for
recommendations,
the
first
one
was
the
sample
return
campaign
to
begin
that,
and
that
would
become
this
2020
perseverance
rover.
B
B
We
are
now
in
the
very
beginning
processes
of
the
new
decade,
decadal
survey.
So
right
now
the
scientists
are
writing
their
white
papers
and
in
a
couple
of
months
there
will
be
another
kind
of
assessment
of
which
missions
will
be
prioritized
for
the
next
decade.
So
probably
the
second
stage
of
the
mars
sample
return
will
probably
be
high
in
that
and
we'll
see
if
giant,
ice,
planets
and
enceladus
venus.
B
B
So
before
phase
two
becomes
fully
embedded
in
nasa's
plan
phase,
one
needs
to
cache
the
samples
so
right
now
we're
gonna
talk
about
perseverance,
rover,
what
it's
gonna
do
and
what
you
might
to
look
at
and
kind
of
like
how
we
decided
where
to
go,
pick
up
samples.
So
this
is
an
image
artist.
Mockup
of
the
perseverance
rover
also
uploaded
very
recently
known
as
mars.
2020
is
very
much
it's
built
on
the
same
platform
as
the
curiosity
rover.
That's
been
roaming
around
gale
craters
2012,
but
it
has
different
instruments.
B
Triassic
was
designed
as
a
science
laboratory
so
had
everything
he
needed.
There
had
all
the
kind
of
chemistry,
labs
and
instruments
to
do
the
science
they
had
to
do
this.
Rover
instead
is
designed
to
characterize
samples.
It
doesn't
need
to
do
these
full
analysis
on
board.
It
just
needs
to
find
them
put
them
in
tubes
and
store
them
to
be
returned.
B
So
it's
number
one
job
to
kind
of
get
people
excited
this
kind
of
science.
That's
going
to
make
or
break
the
mission
is
we'll
find
life
and
scientists
call
life
biosignatures
the
signature
of
biology-
and
you
know
a
in
classical
terms
the
most
commonly
thought
like
bio
signature
would
be
a
fossil.
So
if
you
ever
seen
a
dinosaur
fossil,
a
skull
of
a
tyrannosaurus
rex,
that
is
the
kind
of
most
classic
fossil,
you
can
imagine
evidence
that
life
once
lived.
Looked
like
a
dinosaur
died
preserved
on
mars.
B
We
don't
really
expect
giant
fossils
like
that
to
ever
have
formed
if
they
do
that'd
be
great
and
we'd
love
to
find
them
and
return
them,
but
we're
not
expecting
that
to
be
so.
Astrobiologists
have
decide
defined
six
different
types
of
biosignatures.
That
could
also
be
signs
of
life.
Here
we
have
macro
structures
and
textures.
This
would
be
a
lot
like
that
dinosaur
skull,
a
large
piece
of
rock
or
evidence
that
life
was
there,
but
they
could
also
be
very
small
things
that
you
need
microfossils,
microtubes,
biofilms
things.
B
B
Chemistry
and
isotopes
are
also
kind
of
signatures
that
could
be
determined
are
created
only
by
life.
Now,
one
of
the
big
problems
with
this
is
that,
depending
on
what
kind
of
scientist
you
are,
you
don't
believe
any
one
of
these
alone?
So
if
you
saw
you
know
if
you
saw
a
skull
of
something
that
was
clearly
something
macro
alive
dinosaur
skull.
B
Yes,
you
would
say
that
is
a
smoking
gun
that
life
was
there,
but
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
look
like
guys
could
make
it,
but
there's
other
abac
like
things
that
could
cause
it
happen.
So
we
only
saw
organic
molecules.
There
are
non-life
ways
to
create
organic
molecules
if
you
just
find
that
that's
not
a
smoking
gun
that
it
had
to
be
alive.
B
We
can
find
some
of
these
pretty
well,
but
not
with
the
confidence,
and
this
is
why
sample
return
becomes
so
important,
because
we
want
to
bring
back
samples
and
have
the
best
instruments
we
can
find
on
earth
to
look
at
all
these
and
try
to
find
the
combination
that
says.
Yes,
this
sample
was
alive.
This
is
a
biosignature.
We
know
it
was
any
instrument
that
we
actually
sent
to
mars
would
leave
enough
ambiguity
that
we
wouldn't
be
confident
with
it.
B
So
these
are
the
instruments
that
are
going
mass
cam
to
get
good
images,
brim
facts.
Look
under
the
surface,
spectrometers
understand
the
composition.
One
of
the
interesting
ones
I
find
is
moxie.
This
is
not
really
to
understand
the
surface,
but
to
a
demonstration
to
see
if
we
can
turn
the
atmosphere
of
mars
and
pull
out
oxygen
to
use
as
rocket
fuel.
B
If
this
instrument
works,
we're
going
to
set
a
much
bigger
one
as
part
of
that
second
phase
of
the
sample
return
to
create
rocket
fuel
from
the
atmosphere
itself
and
try
to
use
the
resources
on
mars
to
help
explore
it.
So
if
we
can
do
that,
experiment
here
that
might
revolutionize
the
what
we
can
to
explore
mars.
That's
going
to
be
really
exciting,
and
so
this
mission,
all
these
instruments,
are
going
to
characterize
surfaces,
rocks
on
the
surface
and
then
put
them
in
these
little
tubes.
B
Here,
underneath
their
see
this
little
cylinder
full
of
tubes
underneath
the
rubber,
and
so
that's
all.
These
instruments
are
designed
to
look
at
the
surface,
understand,
what's
going
on
and
collect
samples
for
later
return,
and
so
this
kind
of
shows
how
the
kind
of
strategy
for
caching
samples
will
look
these
first
two
solid
lines.
B
This
would
be
the
main
mission
where
we
go
and
do
something
kind
of
relatively
close
to
the
a
landing
site,
and
so
this
is
where
there's
gonna
be
a
lot
of
stress
right,
so,
like
once
it
lands,
it
wants
to
basically
collect
really
good
samples
as
fast
as
it
can,
because
at
any
day
the
rover
could
break
it
could
have
a
fuse
fail.
It
could
have
a
electronic
breakdown,
a
communication
problem.
B
If
the
rover
fails
person
fails,
that's
not
mission
critical,
because
it
now
has
samples
we
can
go,
collect
them
and
do
the
simple
return,
but
putting
that
first
cash
down
is
going
to
be
a
very
a
strong
goal
that
the
mission
has
to
do
before.
It
can
really
explore
more.
So
there's
a
lot
of
strategies
for
how
it's
going
to
work
on
the
surface.
B
So
once
you
get
that
first
kind
of
mission
success
samples
down,
and
then
it
has
years
and
years
and
years
to
drive,
explore
more
areas,
find
better
samples
and
possibly
return
and
drop
them
off
nasa's
trying
to
figure
out
ways
where
it
can
put
multiple
caches
across
the
surface.
So
we
can
pick
up
either
the
best
one
or
pick
them
all
up.
B
So
that's
all
possible
ways
in
the
future,
but
getting
that
first,
cash
down
before
the
rover
fails
is
going
to
be
a
very
stressful
time
and
then
they'll
have
more
time
to
kind
of
figure
out
where
to
go
to
get
the
best
samples
in
the
extended
mission.
So
with
that
in
mind,
we're
going
to
explore
the
type
of
places
that
can
actually
land
on
mars.
B
So
when
we're
looking
for
life,
every
site
needs
to
have
four
things:
it
needs
to
be
a
place
where
life
can
develop
as
we're.
As
far
as
we
know
what
we're
fundamentally
have
to
look
like,
as
we
know
it
life
is,
we
don't
know
it
could
be
anywhere,
so
it's
hard
to
really
define
strategies
for
finding
it,
but
life
as
we
know
it
means
water,
energy
protection.
So
we
can
grow
chemical
energy
for
it
to
eat
and
survive
so
a
place
for
life
to
develop.
Then
it
needs
some
medicine
of
concentration.
B
You
know
we
just
have
a
few
cells.
Do
an
independent
thing:
it
won't
really
create
a
signature.
That'll
be
easy
to
find
so
some
method
for
concentrating
life.
Then
we
need
a
method
to
preserve
it,
so
that
way,
cells
and
microbes
that
maybe
live
billions
of
years
ago
could
be
still
have
evidence
and
five
cylinders
for
us
to
find
today
and
then.
Finally,
we
need
some
sort
of
landform
detectability.
So
when
we're
looking
at
the
planet
from
the
orbit,
we
say
hey,
this
is
where
we
should
go
so
any
set.
B
B
Second
would
be
a
sedimentary
lake
or
delta,
where
there
was
water
flowing,
as
well
as
a
lot
of
sediments
to
preserve
life
and,
finally,
a
volcanic
hydrothermal
site
that
could
have
high
energy
waters
that
could
support
life
and
then
preserve
it
in
the
mineralities
that
formed
from
the
waters.
So
these
environments
will
kind
of
talk
through
kind
of
examples
as
we
go
along.
B
So
we've
had
four
different
landing
site
workshops
for
perseverance
and
a
few
more
for
curiosity,
where
we
spent
years
using
orbital
data
to
kind
of
figure
out
where
these
planet
missions
should
go.
So
first
we
got
these
maps
of
mars
kind
of
saying
where
we
can't
go
the
30
degrees,
north
and
30
degrees
south.
If
we
go
north
of
that
or
south
of
that,
the
year
gets
too
cold.
The
rover.
Mechanics
engineering
doesn't
really
work
well
in
those
cold
winters
that
would
face
there,
so
we've
got
to
stay
near
the
equator.
B
So
even
though
it's
a
nuclear
powered
rover,
it
has
to
stay
someplace
warm.
So
that
way
the
wheels
can
roll
and
it
can
stay
without
stresses
it
also
because
it's
landing
partly
with
a
parachute.
It
needs
enough
air
to
slow
down
enough.
So
these
areas
that
are
blacked
out
those
are
places
where
elevations
are
over
500
meters
tall
from
the
kind
of
dame
of
mars
and
there's
not
enough
air
above
those
places
for
parachutes
to
work.
So
it
can't
land
in
the
places
of
equator
that
are
blacked
out.
B
It
also
can't
land
in
these
kind
of
white
and
gray
areas,
because
they
are
too
dusty
and
we
don't
really
know
what
the
mineralogy
is
and
we
don't
believe
we
can
have
a
good
capturing
samples
there
because
there's
too
much
dust
to
get
our
way,
so
the
places
were
available
to
land
are
all
these
kind
of
blue
and
green
colored
areas
which
show
elevation
that
are
between
30
degrees,
north
and
30
degrees
cell.
So
in
that
area
we
can
start
to
look
at
landing
sites.
B
On
top
of
that,
we
also
have
this
problem
with
planetary
protection,
so
we're
looking
for
fossil
life,
but
if
there
are
places
where
life
could
be
today
we're
a
little
too
afraid
of
contaminated
lucky.
For
us,
this
isn't
really
an
issue
most
of
these
areas
that
problems
with
plantar
protection
are
either
too
high
or
too
far
north
or
whatever
too
closest
to
where
we
have
ice
and
water.
B
I
submitted
my
favorite,
which
is
a
hydrothermal
system
that
I
discovered
in
my
graduate
work,
a
great
place,
I
think,
for
finding
life,
but
it
didn't
hit
the
other
parts
of
the
mission
as
well,
and
so
scientists
suggested
their
sites,
and
then
we
debated
and
talked
about
them
and
spent
years
at
these
workshops
building
up
the
kind
of
list.
So
this
shows
kind
of
the
results
of
the
first
workshop
outcome.
You
know
a
few
dozen
sites
here
listed
and
how
safe
they
are
to
land.
B
So
we
first
we
anyone
can
really
suggest
a
site
and
say
this
is
cool
because
of
science,
and
then
we
have
to
find
it
first
figure
out
if
the
rover
could
actually
land
anywhere
close.
So
some
of
them
were
better
for
landing
than
others
and
we
kind
of
ranked
them
for
which
ones
were
easier
to
land
but,
more
importantly,
which
ones
had
great
science.
So
this
was
a
table
here
showing
the
top
the
sites
and
then
the
scientific
communities.
B
The
members
such
to
these
means
basically
voted,
and
this
shows
where
the
community
was
feeling
about
how
these
sites
were
for
scientific
value.
Were
they
good
for
characterizing
geological
history
of
mars?
Did
they
have
ancient
habitats,
bio
signature,
preservation,
actually
biological
qualities,
so
experts
in
the
field
kind
of
put
these
kind
of
votings
in
to
create
these
rankings
and
for
the
most
part,
the
high
ranking
ones
by
community
would
float
to
the
top
and
then
the
ones
below
would
kind
of
be
cut
off.
B
So
each
meeting
kind
of
would
go
through
this
kind
of
down
select
process.
So
after
all,
these
missions,
21
different
spots,
were
suggested
early
in
the
process.
Eventually,
we
got
down
to
eight
this
kind
of
shows
the
imagination
process
at
these
areas:
columbia,
hills,
jezreel,
northeast
certis,
where
the
kind
of
top
ones
and
then
perennial
favorites
of
holden
at
bernalde,
which
were
really
great
delta
features
for
lakes
mars,
which
is
the
old
terrains
melis,
which
was
a
in
the
palace,
monarchs
and
melee
phosphate,
which
has
this
alteration
material.
B
B
So
now
we'll
talk
a
bit
more
about
each
one
of
these
finalists
to
understand
the
kind
of
trade-offs
and
how
a
mission
would
be
there.
Columbia,
hills
was
a
place
where
she
explored
already,
with
the
spirit,
rover
spent
years
kind
of
getting
to
know
the
geology
there,
and
so
we
wanted
to
look
at
this
columbia
hills
mentioned
area.
B
So
this
was
one
of
the
final
sites
and
for
a
lot
of
people
who
worked
on
the
site
for
years
of
spirit,
they
loved
the
fact
that
they
knew
this
site
really
well.
So
they
knew
what
a
mission
here
should
do:
jezreel
delta.
This
is
a
another
one
of
the
final
sites.
This
was
once
a
basin
lake
you
can
see
here.
This
is
a
end
of
a
kind
of
river
that
created
a
delta.
The
colors
here
are
compositions.
These
are
all
altered.
B
Minerals,
biosilicates
things
that
show
that
mars
was
once
warm
and
wet
and
altered,
and
the
same
process
that
altered
minerals
are
great
for
supporting
bacteria
and
life
and
all
that
so
finding
these
minerals.
In
a
preservational
delta,
environment
is
kind
of
the
big
reason
why
jazz
bro
delta
was
seen
as
select
above
other
odds
around
mars.
B
So
here
this
is
what
jezebel
would
have
looked
like
once
upon
a
time
this
crater
lakefield,
you
see
jezreel
kind
of
features
in
this
upper
image
and
it
would
have
filled
up
with
water
kind
of
flowing
in
and,
as
sediments
came
out,
it
would
have
deposited
clays
and
that
would
have
preserved
any
organics
that
might
be
in
there.
So
we
see
this
like
little
model
here
on
the
bottom.
This
is
a
system
on
earth.
Delta
structures
are
incredibly
great
at
preservation.
B
The
small
little
clay
particles
are
really
good
at
kind
of
preserving
capturing
whatever
they
find
in
between
them,
because
it's
so
small,
it's
hard
to
permeate.
You
can't
really
get
water
once
it
kind
of
forms
into
rock,
so
kind
of
was
really
good
at
preserving.
These
are
delta
structures
that
we
find
in
the
geological
record
on
earth,
they're
often
drilled
for
oil,
because
they're
so
good
at
preserving
ancient
life,
which
then
becomes
oil
deposits.
B
B
So
if
life
happened
anywhere
there,
which
we
know
could
be
habitable
because
we
know
the
minerals
form
in
warm
wet
conditions
that
would
be
preserved
in
the
lakes.
That's
why
we'd
want
to
go
to
jezreel
and
the
third
site
is
just
to
the
south,
so
see
jezreel
here
just
to
the
south,
to
west
of
it
is
northeast
certain,
so
whether
it's
going
to
where
all
this
crust
would
be
preserved
in
a
lake
northeast
certis
would
take
us
to
where
all
this
would
be
formed.
B
So
if
we
wanted
to
know
where
life
was
forming,
this
would
probably
be
the
place.
This
is
a
deep
crustal
kind
of
exhumed
kind
of
trains
on
mars,
so
those
three
sites
were
considered
the
kind
of
lead
three
finalists,
so
columbia,
hills,
the
you
know
pro
of
that
is
being
exported
by
spear.
So
we
know
exactly
what
samples
we
want
to
collect
the
problem
with.
That
is
that
you
know
we
spent
years
exploring
it
mars
is
a
big
place.
Why
do
we
want
to
spend
the
next
30
years
studying
place?
B
We've
already
been,
but
the
special
interest
group
that
was
fighting
for
are
people
who
were
part
of
that
study.
You
know
they
spent
years
writing
papers
about
that,
and
they
really
want
their
work
to
kind
of
inform
the
next
30
years
of
exploring.
So
there
was
a
passionate
group
of
folks
who
you
know
spent
years,
exploring
that
places
and
wanted
to
keep
working
it
jezreel
basin.
B
It
was
a
great
for
preserving,
so
one
of
the
best
places
for
actually
preserving
organics,
diverse
minerals
showed
that
there
was
a
lot
of
stuff
going
on.
We
can
explore
deep
history
of
mars
in
this
one
place.
The
big
problem
with
this
basin
is
that
if
we
do
find
life
here,
it
probably
flowed
in
from
somewhere
else,
so
we
don't
really
have
the
context
for
where
life
would
form.
The
special
interest
here
is
that
for
years,
we've
been
following
water
around
mars.
B
So
there's
a
large
community
who
spent
their
career
studying
deltas
on
earth,
sedimentary
features
across
earth
and
mars,
and
they
want
their
work
to
be
relevant
if
we
went
to
a
site
that
didn't
include
sedimentary
features
a
lot
of
their
past,
work
wouldn't
be
as
relevant,
and
they
would
have
harder
again
showing
their
value
transmission.
So
a
lot
of
people
want
to
kind
of
continue
that
process
northeastern
it's.
B
The
great
thing
here
is
we're
looking
at
probably
the
best
example
of
ancient
mars
and
some
of
the
oldest
rocks
on
mars
understand
what
early
planets
look
like.
This
also
could
look
us
help
us
look
at
the
early
earth
on
earth.
Most
rocks
have
been
eroded
or
gone
because
of
how
active
the
earth
is,
but
understanding
the
earliest
kind
of
time
earliest
rocks
on
a
planet
on
mars
might
help
us
understand
how
life
would
have
formed
on
earth
as
well.
B
The
problem
here
is
just
what
processes
would
preserve
life,
we're
never
quite
as
clear
how
we
know
to
know
it
when
we
see
it.
Spectroscopists
would
love
this
area,
though,
because
they've
been
searching
for
these
minerals
across
mars
for
decades,
and
this
is
some
of
the
best
area
to
kind
of
finally
dive
into
those
minerals.
B
So
this
is
where
jezreel
delta
is,
where
perseverance
is
going
to
land
in
next
year
in
2021,
it's
going
to
land
somewhere
around
where
this
white
circle
is
start
to
look
at
the
deep
delta
deep
lake
deposits
go
up
the
delta
and
pass
the
kind
of
source
of
the
waters
for
the
lake,
so
this
shows
kind
of
the
drive.
So
on
the
I
guess,
my
right,
the
upper
ellipse
is
the
delta
feature.
B
So
that's
where
it's
going
to
land
in
that
ellipse
and
then
it's
going
to
get
its
first
samples
there
and
then
it's
going
to
try
this
long
traverse.
It
doesn't
know
which
way
it's
going
to
go.
There's
all
these
little
places
that
we've
been
mapped
already
and
try
to
go
to
this
midway
character.
It's
it's!
The
northeast
service
would
be
much
farther
away.
We
could
never
drive
there
in
a
couple
years,
but
in
a
couple
years
I've
considered
driving.
B
We
can
get
to
this
place
called
midway
and
get
a
much
of
the
geology,
the
interest
parts
of
northeasterness
and
this
kind
of
compromise.
So
that
will
be
the
eventual
mission
plan
of
perseverance,
the
primary
mission
in
jezreel
basin
and
an
extended
mission
going
towards
this
highlands
midway
site.
So
a
bit
about
what
this
mission
will
look
like
so
as
we
once
it
lands,
you
have
a
sense
of
what
to
look
for
you
know
we're
gonna
land
somewhere
near
this
delta,
try
to
drive
as
close
as
we
can
get.
B
As
you
know,
the
first
samples
we
want
to
collect
as
fast
as
we
can.
So
we
know
that
they're
good
in
case
anything.
Anything
else
happens.
You
know.
A
lot
of
this
will
depend
on
where
in
this
ellipse,
because
we
can
land
anywhere
in
this
lips,
statistically
we're
going
to
probably
be
we'll
be
aiming
towards
the
center
of
it.
B
But
you
know,
as
we
there's
a
lower
probability
as
we
go
out,
but
statistically
anywhere
in
this
white
circle,
we
can
land
and
then
they
already
identified
where
they'd
like
to
start
collecting
samples
and
what
they
might
look
like,
for
example,
just
using
oracle
data
they
want
to
collect.
You
know
mafic
floor
samples
to
understand
the
volcanic
issue
of
the
area.
They
want
to
have
some
distal
lake
deposits,
possibly
that's
where
we
might
find
organic
minerals,
our
organic
molecules
and
possibly
the
biosignatures.
B
We
have
point
bars
to
understand
the
sedimentology
of
the
positions
and
a
hole
already
from
orbit.
They
have
a
good
sense
of
where
they
want
to
pick
up
samples
and
start
to
create
these
caches
after
that
kind
of
primary
mission,
maybe
a
year
into
after
we
land,
it
will
kind
of
stow
those
samples
in
a
safe
spot
and
begin
this
drive
into
much
more
complicated,
diverse
terrain
towards
the
mid
midway
kind
of
ellipse.
B
So
after
those
are
collected,
this
next
mission
will
hopefully
go
in
the
next
decade.
Grab
these
samples
somehow,
which
they
still
haven't
figured.
I
think
it'll
often
depend
on
how
the
samples
are
collected,
how
many
caches
we
have
to
go
pick
up
and
then
hopefully
we're
able
to
turn
atmosphere
on
mars
and
the
rocket
fuel
march,
those
in
the
orbit
and
hopefully
bring
them
back.
B
And
so
you
know
that's
a
lot
of
mars
history
in
this
talk
and
a
bit
of
what
we're
hoping
to
go
find
in
the
next
few
years
of
exploring
this
delta
and
ancient
crust
of
mars.
This
was
a
nice
little
kind
of
dem,
a
single
diagram
of
this
complicated
process
that
issa
actually
put
out
because
there's
talks
of
esa
partnering
in
future
processes.
So
here
we
have
this
first
one,
the
march
2020
mission.
It's
going
to
actually
launch
this
rover
to
mars.
B
But
I
just
like
this
general
diagram
of
these
three
different
missions
and
kind
of
how
they're
moving
around
earth
and
mars
to
have
this
complicated
process
to
bring
samples
back
and
so
with.
You
know,
in
this
kind
of
history
of
mars,
from
small
sterner
road
to
hopefully
someday
human
exploration.
We
are
in
this
stage
of
the
perseverance
river.
So
with
that,
my
talk
is
done
and
I
am
open
to
any
questions
that
might
have
come
wrong.
A
B
That's
a
great
question,
so
the
serious
so
the
the
different.
The
question
was:
the
difference
between
curiosity
and
perseverance
landing
sites,
and
you
know
the
mission
goal
was
different.
So
in
curiosity
the
goal
was
to
land
there
and
look
for
habitability,
so
we
were
looking
for
a
place
that
had
these
right
mix,
credibility
and
we'd
study.
That
perseverance
was
to
look
for
the
next
step.
Look
for
samples
we
want
to
return.
B
So
I
would
say
fundamentally
a
lot
of
discussions
for
the
difference
is
not
much
so
we're
essentially
looking
for
places
we
can
find
life
and
that
happen
for
both
of
them.
But
the
big
difference
between
the
two
missions
is
the
multiple
years
we
had
in
between
them.
So
a
major
factor
difference
was:
we
could
land
a
lot
better.
So
a
lot
of
the
sites
that
we
were
talking
about
for
perseverance.
B
We
just
didn't
have
the
technology
to
land
at
for
curiosity,
for
example,
just
a
row
ranked
really
high
for
landing
for
curiosity,
but
it
turned
out.
There
were
too
many
rocks
too
many
boulders
spread
around
and
the
landing
technology.
If
your
curiosity
couldn't
make
it
safe
enough.
However,
by
the
time
we
got
to
perseverance,
they
spent
a
lot
of
money
and
a
lot
of
effort,
a
lot
engineering
time
learning
to
land
on
mars.
Better.
B
So
now
we
were
able
to
shrink
our
our
lips,
so
we
had
better
understanding
of
the
atmosphere
on
mars,
so
we
could
shrink
our
zone
better,
so
we
could
target
it
better.
So
we
don't
need
as
big
of
a
lip,
so
gale
crater
was
selected
in
part
because
it
was
safe
enough
to
land.
So
we
can
land
in
the
smaller
area,
get
closer
to
the
delta,
avoid
some
rocks
so
shrinking
our
landing
lips
was
a
big
difference
as
well
as
we
have
what's
called
a
range
trigger,
so
we
can.
B
B
For
curiosity,
northeast
certis
was
not
seen
as
high,
so
that
was
just
missed
the
cutoff
for
the
finalists
for
the
curiosity,
but
when
the
kind
of
mission
changed
it
for
perseverance,
that
would
then
became
one
of
the
highest
priorities
difference.
So
a
lot
of
it
was
the
same,
but
the
engineering
was
probably
the
major
difference
between
curiosity
and
perseverance.
A
Okay,
that's
cool.
Thank
you.
One
comment
that
marianne
had,
which
is
pretty
cool.
I
didn't
know
this
happened.
Apparently
nasa
had
a
vote
for
naming
the
rover
and
five
her
five-year-old
grandson
and
herself.
They
both
voted
for
perseverance,
so
they're
very
excited
that
it's
happening,
and
it's
actually
got
the
name
that
they
voted
for
and
then
I
have
a
few
more
questions
here.
They're
rolling
in
now
do
the
private
and
public
sectors
dv
up
which
goes
from
decadal
survey.
B
So
the
decadal
survey,
as
it's
been
done
in
the
past,
is
pretty
much
blind
to
the
private
industry.
As
far
as
I
can
tell
the
way
it
works,
is
they
put
a
call
out
to
the
community
and
the
community
is
very
broad,
so
you
have
to
write
anyone.
The
community
can
write
a
white
paper
and
then
they
get
scientists
to
sign
it.
So
there's
nothing
stopping
the
private
sector
for
as
citizens
of
the
world
to
write
their
own
white
papers.
B
I
don't
think
that
was
a
major
factor
in
the
last
one
in
2010,
the
white
papers
are
still
being
written,
so
I
don't
know
if
that'll
be
a
factor
in
two
in
the
new
2020
one.
So
maybe
engineers
at
spacex
and
those
kind
of
folks
are
writing
their
own
white
papers.
Right
now
saying
why
nasa
planetary
science
to
do
their
thing,
but
for
the
most
part,
planetary
science
is
there's
very
little
commercial
aspect
of
the
planetary
science,
part
of
nasa,
the
human
space
flight.
B
That's
where
spacex
and
all
these
other
private
folks
are
in
trying
to
get
humans
in
orbit
trying
to
even
get
humans
to
mars,
but
human
space
flight
is
such
a
different
part
of
nasa
than
planetary
science.
You
know
it
might
be
someday.
They
come
together
more
in
the
future,
but
right
now
they're
just
kind
of
very
separate.
B
So
losing
the
water
is
a
interesting
it's
one
of
those
like
really
complex
questions,
even
though
it
sounds
simple
mars
actually
still
is
full
of
water,
it's
just
mostly
in
the
form
of
ice
and
water.
Deep
underground,
so
mars
didn't
lose
its
water.
It
just
changed
form
so
when
we
say
lose
its
water.
I
think
what
we're
talking
about
is
like:
when
did
these
rivers
stop
flowing?
So
the
general
idea
of
mars
is
that
four
billion
years
ago
it
was
a
pretty
wet
planet.
B
That's
what
seems
of
kind
of
snow
and
snowmelt,
and
these
basin
formations
and
delta
formations,
probably
around
like
4.1,
to
probably
3.8
in
my
mind's
eye.
I
like
to
see
mars
at
around
four
billion
years
ago,
looking
like
iceland
today
a
place
that
you
know
would
have
glaciers
and
volcanoes,
but
also
rivers
and
lakes
and
all
those
things
you
know
never
tropical,
but
definitely
something
that's
kind
of
familiar
to
us
and
then
over
the
next
few
hundred
million
years
from
then
probably
about
3.8
to
about
3.2
3.5
billion
years.
B
B
Big
outflow
channels
would
happen,
cover
the
northern
lowlands
in
some
layer
of
an
ocean
like
a
few
hundred
meters
thick,
which
would
then
subtle
mate
into
the
atmosphere
or
turn
into
ice,
and
so
we
expect
that
to
be
kind
of
a
periodic
thing.
For
a
few
hundred
million
years,
more
ellie
was
the
italian
for
channel,
which
kind
of
meant
any
kind
of
linear
feature,
but
then
that
was
kind
of
badly
translated
into
english
as
canal,
which
has
a
distinctly
intelligent
aspect
to
it.
A
B
B
He
says
those
microbes
are
not
going
to
stop
his
rockets,
his
people
from
landing
on
mars,
and
so,
unless
we
get
the
political
will
to
decide
nationally
and
internationally,
that
mars
belongs
to
the
martians
and
we're
not
going
to
go.
You'll
probably
have
people
like
musk
people
with
rockets
who
are
going
to
do
what
they
want
to
do
so
that
is,
I
think,
from
the
reality
side
of
it.
B
So
if
you
know
there
is
a
chance
if
we
find
life
and
it
revolutionizes
our
view
of
it,
if
we're
able
to
go,
you
know
it
could
be
that
we
find
it
and
it
changes
how
humans
view
life
in
general.
Maybe
there's
great
interest
in
the
medical
community
studying
it
and
that
creates
funding
to
go
and
create
mars
as
a
scientific
preserve
is
a
possibility,
but
I
wouldn't
hold
my
breath
on
that
one
personally
and
then,
if
we
don't
find
life,
this
is
another
good
question.
A
Cool-
and
I
hope
they
I
mean-
you
made
a
good
point
about
how
we
need
to
have
some
rules
in
place
at
an
international
level
before
somebody
like
claims
that
mars
is
theirs
or
something
like
that.
Masha
has
a
question
marsh
2020
mission
will
not
do
any
analysis
at
all,
or
it
will
only
send
the
samples
like.
Is
that
the
idea
that
it
will
only
send
the
samples
back
and
the
samples
will
be
analyzed
in
10
20
years
after
phase
three
is
over.
B
So
I
mentioned,
I
showed
the
kind
of
I
showed
the
slides
or
sorry
in
the
slides.
I
showed
the
the
instruments
on
the
rubber
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
analysis
that
the
rover
can
do.
It
can
take
laser
shots
that
will
look
at
the
elemental
values
to
understand
them.
So
the
you
know,
rather
than
really
doing
full
analysis
of
like
looking
for
biosignatures
its
job
is
to
more
characterize.
It
wants
to
basically
select
the
best
samples
and
that's
what
its
instruments
are
designed.
B
First
and
foremost
to
do
is
to
characterize
samples
and
understand
which
ones
we
should
send
back.
But
with
that
there's
a
lot
of
analysis
we
can
do.
We
can
get
the
elemental
data.
We
can
look
at
spectroscopy
to
understand
if
there's
organics.
So
all
these
are
a
series
of
analyses
that
we
can
do
and
sit
to
you
beyond
the
kind
of
just
collecting
examples
and
so
collecting,
scent
or
characterizing
samples,
packaging
them
away
put
them
in
little
tubes
to
return.
B
That's
like
the
main
focus
of
sample
return,
but
once
that
job
is
done,
then
it
has
these
still
very
capable
instruments
and
as
long
as
the
rover
lasts,
to
keep
exploring
these
areas.
So
again,
it's
not
designed
for
the
full
loop
analysis
that
curiosity
was
designed
for,
but
there's
still
a
lot
of
science
that
these
instruments
are
going
to
be
doing
for
years
and
years
and
years.
A
B
B
So
the
idea
is,
it
finds
a
rock
it
characterizes
it
and
then
uses
this
little
drill
and
it's
able
to
put
samples
into
these
tubes
and
then
either
take
out
the
tubes
and
put
them
on
the
ground
or
store
them
inside
a
container,
and
I
don't
want
to
quote
too
much
on
that.
But
I
know
the
key
part
is
that
the
drill
to
these
tubes
is
the
main
kind
of
sample
interaction.
Part
there's
a
lot
of
talk
on
like
kind
of
reusing
tubes.
A
I
see
and
that
diagram
is
pretty
neat
by
the
way
I
mean
it,
it's
a
simple
principle,
but
it's
it's
nice
to
see
it
in
action.
Marianne
has
a
question
for
you.
I
love
the
idea
of
exploration
and
scientific
discovery,
but
colonization
makes
me
queasy
lack
of
magnetic
field
protection,
lack
of
much
of
an
atmosphere,
the
percolator
problem.
B
So
I'm
definitely,
I
believe
that
a
a
future
where
humans
are
beyond
earth
is
way
more
interesting
than
if
we're
just
here.
So
I
understand
how
hard
colonization
are
called
personally.
Human
settling
mars
is
the
terminology
I
produce,
and
I
am
a
big
proponent
of
it.
I
think
the
solving
those
challenges
will
make
us
better
if
we
can
figure
out
how
to
solve
those
things
we
can
solve
anything.
You
know
the
climate
change
problem
on
earth.
B
I
think,
is
trivial
compared
to
how
hard
it
is
to
get
life
living
on
mars.
Happily,
so
if
we
can
come
up
with
the
will
to
do
these
things,
humans
can
do
anything,
and
that
is
a
future
in
which
I'm
excited
to
be
part
of.
But,
as
you
mentioned,
lack
of
magnetic
field
atmosphere,
all
those
are
gonna
be
really
hard,
but
you
know
we
use
tools.
We
can
live
underground
if
we're
underground
about.
B
If
we
put
about
a
meter
half
a
meter
of
soil
on
the
habitat,
that
is
enough,
radiation
protection
to
compensate
for
a
lack
of
magnetic
field-
and
you
know
I
think,
for
any
problem
you
can
throw
at
us
human
ingenuity.
Can
probably
find
a
solution,
even
if
we
don't
have
a
solution
today,
there's
probably
some
mix
of
it,
and
you
know
humans,
exploring
earth
has
been
hard.
B
A
Sounds
good,
I
think
that's
all.
I
have
questions
wise
and
once
again,
thank
you
so
much
for
being
here
today
or
being
wherever
you
are
today
and
and
being
online
with
us
to
give
this
talk,
and
hopefully
we
will
once
the
robot
is
launched,
we
can
have
another
talk
about
how
it
went
and
what
interesting
information
you
got
from
it,
and
very,
very
hopefully
in
person
next
time.
So,
thank
you
once
again.
Thank
you.
Jr
thank.
B
Yeah,
so
how
much
crotch
talk?
Sharing
planning
is
there
across
the
u.s,
china,
uae
and
european
missions?
So
you
know
some
of
those
nations
are
not
always
on
best
of
terms,
and
so
it
really
depends
on
the
mix
of
it.
So
the
us
and
european,
the
es
esa
and
nasa
they
often
talk
a
lot,
but
they
have
very
different
incentives
year.
B
The
way
europe
works
is
that
they
kind
of
have
to
divide
their
missions
across
all
their
member
states,
and
then
they
work
with
nasa
after
that,
because
they
need
to
keep
their
member
states
kind
of
engaged
by
giving
them
contracts
and
the
right
signs,
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
desire
to
work
between
the
u.s
and
europe.
But
the
difference
in
nature
of
how
those
missions
are
developed
and
distributed,
makes
communicate,
makes
actually
working
together
really
hard.
B
So
usually
it's
where
they
each
provide
a
piece
of
it
and
the
pieces
are
kind
of
pushed
together,
and
that
goes
to
explore.
So
it's
hard
to
really
integrate
beyond
that.
That
said,
the
pearson
branch
rover
does
have
a
few
instruments
that
are
provided
by
european
scientists.
I
think
brimfax
and
possibly
the
weather
station,
where
european
pis
they
created
the
instrument
they
building
them
with
your
ease
of
money
and
then
they're
delivering
for
nasa.
B
B
As
far
as
I
know,
the
uae
mission
hope
mission,
there's
not
a
lot
of
fish
talking
nests
in
uae,
but
you
they
are
bringing
a
lot
of
scientists.
A
lot
of
the
people.
Who've
been
critical
to
launching
instruments,
and
I
have
a
few
friends.
Who've
worked
on
a
lot
of
the
instruments
that
have
gone
to
mars
in
the
past
and
they've
been
working
with
their
uae
counterparts
to
kind
of
provide
them.
B
The
nasa
experience
from
the
science
point
of
view,
as
well
as
engineering
collaboration,
so
that
one,
it's
definitely
led
by
uae
they're,
doing
program
management,
they're
doing
all
the
engineering,
but
there's
a
lot
of
nasa
resources
and
nasa
experience.
That's
making
sure
that
they,
you
know
they
don't
have
to
start
from
scratch.
They
don't
have
to
relearn
the
hard
lessons
that
america
learned
when
we
lost
so
many
missions.