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Description
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Decentralised Finance, "DeFi" for short, is a shared community for projects developing open-source financial primitives. The community sets out to realise an open finance system that has the principles of interoperability, accessibility, financial inclusion and transparency at heart. By putting a team effort behind these shared principles, we amplify our message and onboard new developers, users, and community members to our shared vision for a better financial system.
Join groups in the Australian blockchain community: AlphaWallet, Deloitte, Loopring, Sigma Prime, Synthetix, and COMIT.network for varied discussions on the 2020 of DeFi.
All are welcome, no matter the skill level or experience with DeFi.
SCHEDULE:
• 6:00pm - Networking
• 6:20pm - Welcome and Intro:
• 6:30pm - Short presentations on the topic of DeFi:
- Synthetix - Justin Moses
- Loopring - Jay Zhou
- AlphaWallet - James Sangalli
• 7:15pm - Break / Food
• 7:45pm - Panel discussion
- Jay Zhou - Loopring
- Mehdi Zerouali - Sigma Prime
- Justin Moses - Synthetix
- James Sangalli - AlphaWallet
- Nicholas Qi - Deloitte
- Philipp Hoenisch - COMIT.network
Moderator: James Zaki
• 8:15pm - Shoutouts and networking
https://www.facebook.com/events/ybf-sydney/defi-sydney-panel-discussion/2583541068592882/
B
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B
D
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E
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B
A
B
B
E
D
A
F
Hey
guys
how's
going,
my
name
is
Jay
I'm
co-founder
of
looping
looping
is
a
decent
like
exchange
protocol.
It's
a.
We
create
an
API
to
enable
people
to
build
up
a
decentralized
change
on
your
own
before
I
start
to
ask
a
question
like
how
many
of
you
have
used
this
enter
exchange
before
how
many
of
you?
Oh,
that's
great,
that's
great,
so
why
we
use
this
enter
exchange,
because
the
few
reasons
first
is
is
secure.
F
It's
no
custodian,
for
example
like
what
my
favor
central
exchange
balance
like
last
week,
I
tried
to
withdraw
a
few
coins
from
that
and
it
takes
ages
to
to
receive
to
get
a
probe
get
through.
Why?
Because
central
exchange,
your
si
is
not
in
your
own
pocket,
you
don't
have
the
ownership,
but
this
central
exchange
everything
all
your
SS
is
in
their
own
pocket.
A
second
is
the
transparent.
F
Many
of
them
do
manipulate
the
token
and
the
market
only
like
a
few
of
them
that
are
have
the
Integrity's.
That's
why
we
see
the
price
of
the
center
like
a
few
central
exchange
so
volatile,
but
for
the
central
exchange.
If
you
want
when
you
play
the
market
course
is
massive,
especially
with
the
latest
essential
exchanges.
We
have
a
latest
solution,
called
the
zero
knowledge
proof
to
scare
up
all
the
trend
through
ports
like
the
last
one
is
trustless.
F
We
don't
trust
any
central
exchanges.
Why?
Because,
like
last
year,
there's
a
CEO
of
central
exchange
in
Canada,
he
just
died
and
no
one
can
prove
his
death,
but
but
apparently
he
bought
like
over
20
properties
before
his
death
and
no
one
can
no
one
can
claim
his
private
keys.
He
says
he's
gone,
but
also
he's
gone
with
his
private
keys.
So
all
the
traders
or
the
customers
on
his
central
exchanges
or
the
assets
is
gone.
F
This
is
why
we
don't
trust
central
exchanges,
but
if
the
decentralized
change
is
so
good,
but
why
we
don't
use
the
central
exchange,
this
is
the
liquidity
issues.
We
all
know
if,
during
most
of
the
central
exchange
right
now
is
under
the
same
block
chance,
but
if
the
true
part
is
way
too
slow,
Picon
transaction
speed
is
like
under
15.
If
film
is
probably
like
2030
now
is
a
film
to
point
out
is
a
lot
faster,
but
still
way
too
small
a
way
to
slow
right
now
up
on
the
market
is
a
few
central
exchange.
F
F
It's
us
also,
it
works
well,
but
it
takes
ages
to
to
come
to
persist
and
the
next
one
is
directives
like
dy/dx
I.
Think
it's
way
too
for
like
directive,
the
central
exchange
is
a
bit
earlier.
The
last
one
is
all
the
base
like
us,
0x
and
I
Dex
I
think
it's
its
most
user
fairlead
essential
exchanges,
because
most
people
can
use
it
straight
away,
and
it's
just
like
the
traditional
financial
market.
F
You
don't
need
education,
you
didn't
educate
the
customers
to
use
it,
but
the
problem,
the
downside
is
the
true
part
as
I
say:
decentralize
change.
You
place
the
order.
It
takes
ages.
Even
you
click.
You
match
the
order.
I
take
ages
to
to
sell
o
to
zero
and
clearing.
But
right
now
we
have
the
new
solutions.
I
I
do
some
ideas
and
conclusions
like
right.
Now
we
have
three
general
is
three
kind
of
three
generations
of
this
decentralize
change.
Technology.
F
First,
is
we
put
everything
on
the
blockchain
which
take
a
lot
of
data
for
the
blockchain
and
take
a
lot
of
times
to
persist?
And
second
one
is.
We
do
part
of
job
option
and
then
some
like
settlement
clearing
and
verifications
here
on
the
blockchain,
which
is
like
ether,
data,
the
lace
latest
one.
We
call
will
use
the
technology
core
zero,
not
zk,
roll-up,
which
we
do
all
the
settlement
clearing
of
chain
and
only
put
the
verification
on
the
blockchain,
and
this
came
massive
massively
increase
the
films
through
ports.
F
F
So
if
we
pull
so
here's,
so
we
we
did
a
bit
of
a
in
invited
better
test
around
Christmastime.
So
we
invite
around
hundred
people
to
trade
on
our
decks
and
the
result
turns
out
is
a
huge
for
the
film
communities
first.
Is
it
improved
that
a
ZK
row
up
can
massively
increase
the
throughput?
And,
secondly,
is
it
can
also
reduce
the
cost
right
now,
the
cost
per
tray
is
down
to
almost
like
how
on
three
thousands.
F
So
as
I
say,
we
we
work
with
a
decent
or
exchange
car.
We'd
X
with
X
is
the
first
loop
ring
3.0
integrate
decent
rights
change,
so
we
work
with
them
and
and
the
we
start
a
invite-only
beta
version
test
and
we
invite
all
around
hundred
people.
But
it's
like
hundred
addresses
and
of
them
already
have
like
doubled
to
addresses
and
then
there's
almost
1
million
transaction
have
been
set
out
in
six
states.
F
F
So
I
should
say
we
did
this
for
two
and
half
years,
but
in
the
first
three
years
we
we
we
found
the
problem
about
decentralized
change
and
also
the
interim
blockchain.
So
the
lesson
we
have
learned
is
first:
is
you
shouldn't
rely
on
a
theramin
blockchain
to
scare
up
speed?
If
you
have
a
solution,
shall
do
you
have
you
have
to
do
it
yourself
and
also
for
the
exchanges?
The
most
important
most
important
things
is
about
liquidities.
F
F
So,
as
I
say,
we
have
been
doing
this
for
two
and
a
half
years
since
2010,
and
we
get
our
token
sale
back
in
August
2017
and
raised
about
like
120,000
ethers
back
then
was
about
like
40
40
to
45
News.
There
was
the
second
largest
proteome
project
in
Asia,
the
largest
largest
one
was
tezo's
globally
and
our
team.
We
are
very
decentralized.
We
have
office
in
Shanghai,
New,
York,
City,
Valley
and
Canada
and
Belgian.
F
Our
committee
now
have
over
20,000
people
I
also
want
to
say
we
have
an
incubator
in
Hong
Kong
at
a
cyber
port.
What
one
of
the
reason
I'm
here
today
is
we're
looking
for
like
potential
startup
blockchain
set
up,
so
we
can
help
them
to
incubate
or
to
growth.
Like
a
few
service
we
will
provide,
is
like
a
ferry
service
and
would
provide
a
anniversary's
also.
F
We
we
do
work
with
PwC,
so
the
incubator
we
set
up
in
Hong
Kong
that
are
was
partnered
with
PwC
and
Hong
Kong
local
government
so,
and
here's
the
portfolio
that
all
those
projects
being
used
fully
use
our
service
or
partially
use
our
service
yeah.
If
you
want,
if
you
have
good
ideas
about
blockchain
or
if
you
want
to
be
incubating
our
incubators
or
feel
free
to
shoot
me
an
email,
thank
you
very
much.
F
F
So
the
lesson
we
have
learned-
and
we
there's
also
exchange
called
F
coin.
We
we
invested
back
in
2018.
If
you
know
F
coin,
they
do
a
trade
and
mining
at
the
same
time.
So
the
lesson
we
have
learned
is
at
the
beginning.
You
have
to
you
know
you
have
to
burn
money's
capitals
to
to
set
up
the
market
to
to
build
up
the
liquidities,
but
later
on,
once
you
have
enough
growth
or
enough
customers,
then
all
the
market
makers
are,
you
know,
market
makers.
They
are
looking
for
perfect.
D
F
Yes,
as
you
know,
by
bid
is
a
directive
market
exchanges.
So
we've
been
talking
about
this,
but
it's
hard
to
be
honest.
Like
I
talked
to
Emma
a
they
are
going
to
launch
they
decentralize
directive
exchanges,
but
it's
gonna
be
a
bit
difficult,
yeah
we
will
see,
but
at
the
beginning,
I
always
say
we'll
focus
on
sport
trading.
First
yeah.
F
Why,
like
year
me
I,
like
I'm,
also
personally
I'm
a
big
fan
of
you
so
up
as
well?
First,
they
don't
you
token
I
think
it
is
good
integrity
and
second,
is
they
give
the
rewards
back
to
the
communities
like
the
way
they
they
like
everyone,
they
create
their
own
small
country,
and
you
can
be
your
own
market
makers.
I.
Think
like
liquidities
for
market
maker,
for
the
use
of
is,
is
very
important
yeah
and
they
don't
change
the
face.
F
I
mean
I,
yeah
I
mean
Adam,
they
they're
not
in
a
rush
of
they
don't
have
any
financial
stress
at
the
moment.
So
us
ask
Adam
was
when
you
decide
to
each
other
faces.
You
know
no,
no,
no
plan
so,
but
they're
going
to
also
scalp
with
optimistic
grow
up.
We
will
see
how
it
goes
because
of
this.
You
know
takes
long
time
to
yeah.
F
F
B
B
Slightly
off
it
yep
there
we
go
they'll
do
yeah
using
d5
days
kind
of
confusing
I
know
the
first
time
that
I
ever
used
a
CVP,
a
super
confused.
You
know
what
is
stability
fee,
liquidation,
price,
Clairol,
ization
ratio,
it's
quite
different
to
what
you'd
expect
when
you
typically
go
to
make
a
loan
in
a
bank,
for
example,
let's
say
you
go
to
buy
a
house.
B
Typically,
you
put
say
a
20%
deposit
down
and
the
remaining
80%
would
be
secured
by
the
bank
with
fifa
instruments,
at
least
the
ones
that
are
popular
now,
that's
kind
of
flipped
you
and
to
give
it
at
least
150
percent
of
your
loan
up
is
collateral,
which
would
be
really
weird
in
the
traditional
sense.
If
you
were
to
say,
I'll
give
you
150
percent
of
the
money
for
the
house
in
advance.
B
This
thing
you
can
do
is
put
it
into
a
CD
P
like
to
make
$1.00
CDP
generate
dye,
which
is,
of
course,
as
you
know,
dollar
back
a
dollar
pegged
stable
coin,
backed
by
etherion
and,
let's
say,
you're
correct
about
your
prediction.
Within
the
span
of
one
year,
the
price
does
go
up,
100%.
Well,
that's
greater
than
the
dialogue.
You
had
to
pay
of
say
six
percent
interest
and
therefore
you
made
a
profit.
Of
course.
When
you
come
in
speculation,
the
opposite
is
also
true.
B
So
with
that
that
kind
of
segues
me
into
the
next
point:
what
are
the
major
risks
when
you're
using
a
defy
product,
namely
compound,
for
example?
The
big
open
question
still
is
actually
decentralized
in
the
case
of
compound.
The
answer
is
not
quite
for
one:
they
have
what's
called
a
price
Oracle
that
feeds
the
prices
into
the
smart
contract,
so
that
you
know
what
price,
for
example,
ether
is.
B
Furthermore,
compound
actually
has
a
weird
thing
where
basically
to
have
admin
keys
and
if
you
manage
to
seize
control
of
these
admin
keys
or
the
compound
team
themselves
who
control
the
admin
key
would
somehow
be
compromised.
You
can
basically
freeze
anybody's
funds
at
will
and
lock
the
whole
pull
up
entirely.
B
B
B
Unfortunately,
also
we
still
have
the
same
web
2.0
tricks
in
the
web
3
world.
This
poor
fellow
up
here
got
fished
basically
and
lost
14
grand
worth
fourteen
point,
one
grand
worth
of
legacy
diet,
and
we
all
kind
of
think
all
you
know
would
never
happen
to
me-
it's
kind
of
funny
or
whatever,
but
it's
actually
really
easy
to
happen.
Every
time
you
use
a
service
like
compound,
you
send
what's
called
an
approval
transaction.
So
let's
say
I
want
to
loan
100
die
to
the
compound
platform.
B
That
means,
though,
at
the
same
time
that
is
super
easy
to
basically
fork
the
compound
website,
which
is
open
source
anyway,
run
it
on
another
domain
like
compound
with
0
that
looks
very
similar
and
then
change
the
smart
contract,
which
you
approved
to
a
malicious
one,
and
you
could
tribulus,
kill
all
the
money
and
it's
quite
an
even
worse
than
the
traditional
system,
because
in
this
case,
there's
no
recourse.
There's
no
way
to
get
your
money
back.
If
you're
fooled
like
this
full
guide,.
B
B
It's
hope
script
is
it's
an
open
framework
which
allows
you
to
define
all
your
token
logic
in
a
simple
file,
and
then
you
sign
it
and
by
signing
it
by
available
authority,
you
uses
know
who
the
token
straight
comes
back
from
and
they
can
basically
access
each
token
module
ie
token
spent
inside
their
wallet
and
know
that
everything
works
like
it's
supposed
to.
So
it's
very
trivial
to
satan'
value
a
legacy
die
sigh
and
to
die.
B
So
with
all
that
in
mind,
I
want
to
end
with
a
question.
Hopefully
you
guys
can
help
me
with
this
and
that's
the
big
one,
which
is
compliance
I'm,
still
really
confused
about
there
myself
I
recounted
a
funny
conversation
I
had
with
an
ATO
agent
since
I'm
here
in
Australia
on
a
temporary
visa.
Most
people
who
have
temporary
visas
are
exempt
from
capital
gains
tax
on
crypto
and
also
texts
that
you
earn
interest
on,
say.
B
A
foreign
bank
account
so
I
wanted
to
ask
Oh
whit
is
a
platform
like
compound
fit
in
this
equation,
because
you
can't
really
say
where
it
belongs
or
you
know,
what's
your
restriction,
that's
in
so
a
caller
up.
I
say
you
know:
what
does
this
count
as
this
foreign
interest?
What
is
it
and
issues?
Obviously
perplex
going?
We
know
how
can
you
even
run
in
a
smart?
What
is
that
like?
Where
is
it
and
where
is
the
team
from
and
and
I
said?
Well,
you
know
the
team
is
probably
in
the
u.s.
B
I
think
they
are
off
for
compound
state
but
of
course,
there's
no
real
jurisdiction
for
that,
and
so
she
said
well,
I'm,
pretty
sure.
I
can
confidently
say
that
that
is
foreign
interest
in
there
for
exempt,
but
I
highly
doubt.
The
US
is
gonna
just
sit
down,
and
let
this
happen
without
them.
Knowing
about
it
and
I
said
what
do
you
mean
exactly
by
that?
You
just
said
well,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
be
pleased
shortened.
They're
gonna
want
them
to
pay
their
taxes
on
that
somehow,
and
that
got
me
thinking.
B
First
of
all,
how
would
they
even
do
that
when
you
don't
know
who's
who,
on
the
platform
since
you're,
interacting
with
your
etherium
address
and,
furthermore,
how
will
they
even
be
able
to
change
the
logic
inside
the
smart
contract
to
comply
with
any
of
the
rules?
But
maybe
that's
where
those
admin
key
is.
F
B
A
A
This
would
be
the
mic
that
we
passed
around
because
it's
what
the
Internet
can
hear
I'm
sure
we
have
hundreds
of
viewers-
thousands,
sorry,
yes,
thousands
of
viewers,
all
right,
so
that's
gonna
have
to
be
it
as
best.
We
can
pass
this
around
as
mic,
but
we
also
have
the
mic
for
the
brain
here.
So
we'll
just
leave
one
down
here
so
and
that
she'll
be
on
yep,
and
this
one
as
well
and
I
should
be
wired
up.
Midi
did
you
want
to
press
your
button
should
go
green,
oh.
A
A
G
Everyone,
my
name,
is
MIDI
I'm,
a
co-founder
and
director
of
Sigma
prime.
We
are
in
the
information
security
consultancy,
mostly
based
out
of
Sydney
working
on
blockchain
projects.
We
actually
have
a
couple
of
our
clients
here
on
the
panel.
We
are
also
quite
well
known
now
for
being
the
founders
and
maintainer
of
lighthouse
and
eath
to
rust,
implementation.
E
I'll
give
you
that
all
right,
I
guess
I'm
Philip
I'm
running
a
small
startup
called
Co
blocks.
Here
we
are
in
R&D
lab
of
10x
and
we
develop
a
cryptographic
protocol
called
comet
which
soft
blockchain
interoperability.
So
what
does
it
mean?
We
heard
quite
a
bit
around
Texas
already
trustless
trading,
but
how
does
it?
How
does
it
even
work?
So
does
any
one
of
you
guys
have
maybe
a
bounty
and
wants
a
Snickers
I.
C
E
Both
yeah
say
anyone
anyone
having
a
bounty
and
want
to
sniggers
for
that,
oh
sweet,
so
we
don't.
We
don't
know
each
other
right
all
right.
So,
let's,
let's
assume
I
hold
some
Bitcoin
here.
It
connects
to
my
list
and
he
holds
some
ether,
the
bounty
and
we
want
to
exchange
that.
But
we
don't
trust
each
other
right.
The
traditional
way
would
be
going
to
exactly
so.
We
go.
D
E
Go
to
an
exchange
so
you're
on
a
nice
exchange
right
just
it.
So
we
give
it
to
you
and
we
trust
him
that
he
now
does
this
work
for
us
and
hand
it
back
to
us,
but
we
can't
rely
on
that.
He
might
just
turn
around
eat
both
of
the
chocolate
bars
or
randomly
dying
in
here.
So
we
don't
want
that
to
happen.
That's
why
we
that
was
too
fast.
E
So
what
we
developed
is
a
cryptographic
protocol
so
that
we
can
exchange
the
two
assets
at
the
same
time,
atomically,
which
means
there's
not
a
single
point
of
time,
but
one
party
holds
both
at
assets,
so
neither
me
nor
him
can
I
run
run
away
with
those
assets.
We
exchange
them
at
the
same
time
and
then
at
the
end,
we're
both
happy
easy
right.
A
E
That's
what
I
just
did
right
for
someone
who
is
five
well
so
defy
is
you
can
think
of
and
open
non-custodial
censorship,
persistent
financial
ecosystem,
and
that
involves
everything
from
payments
to
trading,
to
loans,
to
insurances,
options,
all
kind
of
financial
instruments
and
trustless
means
there's
no
trust
at
sell
party
like
we
just
did
to
trade
to
swap
we
didn't
have
to
trust
anyone
in
the
middle.
That's
defy.
A
Alright,
we'll
get
a
better
system,
we'll
get
a
better
sound
system
for
next
time,
so
Peter
brought
up
in
the
chat
that
almost
all
of
defy
is
just
using
blockchain
as
just
another
platform
for
speculating,
and
it
also
says
markets
which
participants
are
primarily
speculating
as
your
some
so
yeah.
My
question
is
sort
of.
Is
this
enabling
a
new
breed
of
like
those
of
Wolves
of
Wall,
Street
or
even
setting
things
up
for
kind
of
GFC
like
crisis.
A
B
I
guess
the
answer
is:
yes,
it's
still
a
speculative
tool,
but
most
things
start
like
that.
Like
the
first
cell
phone
was
only
for
the
Wall
Street
executives
and
then
slowly
got
better
cheaper
and
then
now
everybody
can
have
a
cell
phone.
So
it's
probably
the
same
progression
that
will
happen
in
this
industry.
We
just
haven't
seen
that
yet
because
we're
so
early
yeah.
E
B
G
Think
to
answer
your
question:
I
I
come
from
a
country
where
it's
super
hard
to
get
access
to
certain
financial
instruments.
I
was
born
and
raised
in
Morocco,
there's
a
huge
monetary
sort
of
policy
controlled
by
the
current
government
and
I'm,
not
sure.
If
I'm
sure
some
of
you
went
to
Devcon
in
Osaka.
It
was
this
great
talk
by
Mariano,
Conti
who's,
a
developer
at
maker,
who's
been
surviving
or
living
or
avoiding
the
terrible
things
that
been
happening
to
the
his
economy
by
using
dye.
G
So
I
personally
definitely
see
the
value
of
D
Phi
from
like
individual
level.
It's
obviously
not
yet
I'd,
say
ready
yet
for
the
masses,
simply
because
we're
not
able
to
perhaps
democratize
this
tool
and
make
it
accessible
to
the
mainstream
public,
but
for
me
at
least
coming
from
that
background,
it
definitely
makes
sense.
Obviously
the
speculation
part
is:
is
there
and
I
agree
with
you?
I
agree
with
your
assessment,
but
doesn't
for
me
it
doesn't
mean
that
we
should
be.
You
know,
stopping
everything
we're
doing
because
it
can
be
abused.
B
A
small
point
for
me
I
kind
of
touched
on
this
before,
but
there
are
different
types
of
learners
right
out
there
and
I
happen
to
be
a
type
of
learner
that
likes
to
tinker
right.
I
came
to
set
it
kind
of
loner,
so
for
me
this
has
been
really
and
I,
find
it
really
useful
in
learning
about
financial
products
than
I
like
to
hope
that
there
are
a
lot
of
people
out
there
in
the
world
and
we've
seen
them
in
our
community.
I'm
sure
you've
seen
them
out
there
to
that.
B
That
are
now
talking
with
a
lot
of
depth
and
intelligence
about
financial
engineering
like
that's.
This
is
a
backbone
of
our.
You
know
capitalist
society
and
like
to
be
able
to
talk
about
it
meaningfully.
It's
pretty
powerful,
like
even
if
you
had
point
0
1/8,
you
can
still
do
a
fair
bit.
Ok,
yes,
there's
gas,
and
eventually
you
can
run
out
of
gas,
but
you
know
you
can
actually
start
to
learn
about
the
things.
What
a
leverage
long
is
like.
B
A
Keep
looking
around,
if
you
do
have
a
question,
please
feel
free
to
call
out
so
we've
yeah,
you
brought
a
couple
of
use
cases
there
like
where
maybe
a
country's
economy
isn't
as
strong.
So
they'll
revert
to
something
like
I'm
cryptocurrencies
as
being
more
stable
and
more
useful.
What
are
some
other
use
cases,
but
defy.
D
B
B
This
is
to
go
on
midis
point
in
Morocco,
for
example,
I
know
their
currency,
the
Durham
is
closed
and
you
can't
buy
it
from
overseas.
But
if
anyone
in
Morocco
wanted
to
accept
US
dollars,
they
would
have
to
make
a
bank
card,
otherwise,
which
would
be
pretty
difficult,
but
you
could
accept,
died
pretty
easily,
and
so
you
kind
of
bypass
the
regulation
there,
which
is
a
first
use
case.
I.
F
Just
want
to
from
a
decentralized
exchange
perspective,
so
it
provides
you
a
way
to
do
a
peer-to-peer
trading.
So
if
you
don't
have
the
central
exchange,
the
only
way
the
only
solution
for
you
to
trade,
your
essay
is
either
off
chain
I
from
face
to
face
which
you
have
to
trust
this
person
or
you
have
to
send
to
a
central
exchange,
but
with
the
central
exchange.
It's
known,
castilian,
trust
this
trading
experience,
so
I
think
it's
a
really
good
example.
B
Let's
say
that
you
know
with
defy,
you
can
actually
get
behind
something
and
be
a
part
of
something
that
you
value
and
you
can
be
financially
rewarded
for
that
right,
like
you,
can
you
can
add
to
the
supply
of
dye
right
or
you
can
add
to
you,
can
be
a
stake
in
s
and
X.
You
can
actually
get
behind
something
that
you,
you
actually
value
and
you
think
is
adding
value
to
the
worlds
and
I
think
that's
that's
a
pretty.
That
is
a
pretty
compelling
to
a
lot
of
people.
A
D
So
most
of
the
use
cases
you
mentioned
are
kind
of
like
Anish.
Do
you
think
defy
I
mean
it's
kind
of
like
I
feel
if
I
is
a
niche
at
the
moment,
because
blockchain
is
probably
an
issue
at
the
moment
like
some
people
might
dispute
it,
but
mass
adoption
is
not
there
yet
I
would
say,
do
you
think
defy
is
already
very
innovative
and
do
you
think
it
will
escape
the
nisha,
for
example,
being
like
in
a
country
where
you
don't
have
certain
accessibility
x'
because
of
international
regulations,
I.
E
I
would
say
that
totally
depends
on.
Oh,
oh
bounty
totally
depends
on
what
kind
of
product
you're
talking
about.
So,
if
you
think
of
payments,
I
think
we
are,
we
can
have
mass
adoption
soon.
If
we
invest
time
into
ux/ui
education
around
how
to
treat
private
keys
trading,
maybe
as
well,
but
if
you
want
to
go
collateralized
stable
coins,
I
don't
think
we
are
there.
Yet
people
don't
even
understand
how
mortgages
and
loans
and
money
works
in
particularly
yet
I.
G
G
B
That's
why
some
are
we
gonna
spend
money
for
something
they're
going
to
usually
spend
money,
because
this
is
something
they
value
right
and
for
most
people
it's
a
idea
of
making
more
money.
So
I
mean
yes,
it
is
defies
a
niche,
but
it
gets
people
through
that
that
threshold
of
am
I
going
to
spend
money
on
this
and
I.
B
Don't
know
what
other
complications
they
will
do,
but
I
think
that's
it's
something
we
really
have
to
deal
with
right,
like
I
uses
of
our
platforms
as
super
passionate,
because
they
make
money
if
we
do
well
but
by
the
same
token
they
have
to
get
through
that
oh
I
gotta
spend
money
every
time.
I
want
to
do
something,
especially
if
their
life,
they,
if
they're
long
ether
right,
which
probably
most
of
us,
are
you're.
Basically
spending
this
thing.
Your
long
with
just
a
bit
just
ability,
users
to
settlements,
coming
arts.
A
G
We
get
a
lot
of
donations
and
I,
and
some
of
you
have
donated.
Thank
you
so
much
this.
This
great
platform
called
get
coin
that
basically
allows
you
to
sponsor
some
of
the
open
source
projects
out
there
that
are
building
public
goods
and
I'd
like
to
think
that
lighthouse,
re2
client
is
one
of
them.
So
a
lot
of
people
have
been
donating
to
die.
So
I
think
to
answer
your
question:
that's
definitely
a
way
that
we
could
use.
B
A
F
G
Mentioned
Moloch
Moloch
is
gonna,
upgrade
their
contract.
Does
everyone
know
what
Moloch
Dow
is
yeah,
no
I'll
explain
very
briefly.
So
Moloch
is
I
started
by
a
couple
of
people
who
were
really
really
concerned
about
the
sustainability
of
aetherium
development.
So,
basically,
if
we
all
rely
on
the
Thira
foundation
to
provide
grants
to
people
building
the
future
aetherium
or
lots
of
tools
that
people
are
using
on
a
daily
basis,
they
were
probably
in
trouble.
So
these
guys
are
heavily
obviously
exposed
to
Eva.
G
G
It's
probably
dropped
to
100
by
now,
and
basically
are
now
part
of
this
great
community
that
essentially
votes
on
proposals
right,
so
lighthouse
got
actually
a
grant
for
more
look
Dow
to
fund
an
external
security
review
so
that
the
money
that
we're
actually
getting
from
Moloch
Dow
will
be
used
to
pay
a
vendor
to
review
our
code
base
and
it's
quite
quite
an
exciting
tool.
I
think
I
agree.
G
It
has
a
lot
to
do
with
governance,
but
at
the
same
time,
Moloch
is
upgrading
their
contracts
and
we'll
be
using
dye,
as,
as
the
actual
token
to
be,
you
know,
distributing
across
all
these
projects
are
funded.
So
to
me
it
is
definitely
part
of
defy,
and
it's
definitely
something
that
we're
very,
very
excited
about.
G
Does
the
ragequit
still
remain
okay,
cool,
okay,
cool
yeah,
so
I
so
the
way
it
works
you
get
actually
allocated
shares
within
Morlock,
so
as
a
grant
recipient,
you
don't
actually
get
directly
either
or
die.
You
get
shares
and
then
it's
up
to
you
to
rage
quit
those
shares
to
get
you
either
back.
I.
Think
it
kind
of
makes
sense
to
me.
This
is
a
like
type,
a
tight
group
of
people
and
it's
going
back
to
your
point.
G
A
Any
terms
of
products
like
so
to
what
level
would
you
say,
they're
at
like
some
of
the
products
said
they
look
pretty
polished
that
but
they're,
obviously,
quite
still
for
the
nation,
they're
quite
specific
to
people
who
know
what
they're
doing.
How
far
away
do,
we
think
maybe
a
broader
audience
will
be
able
to
approach
defy.
B
F
So
I
would
say,
like
in
general,
I
defy
user
has
more
knowledge
than
the
regular
traders,
because
defy
requires
a
lot
more
long.
Knowledge
that
you
have
to
use
meta
mask
I,
want
to
say
like
more
than
90%
of
like
probably
over
90%
of
traders.
They
don't
even
know
about
meta
masks
or
the
other
wallet,
but
in
order
to
have
mass
adoption,
I
think
you
have
to
think
the
other
way
like
how
to
how
to
make
your
product
more
user
friendly
like
for
us.
F
I
will
give
example
because,
because,
like
even
for
this
central
exchange,
like
the
former,
the
central
exchange
you
have
to
the
theorem,
is
you
cannot
trade
it
to
him?
You
have
to
repair,
does
also
make
people
more
difficult,
or
at
least
like
for
me
I.
Don't
you
have
to
make
an
extra
effort
to
that?
So
by
doing
this,
we're
gonna
do
what
we're
going
to
do?
Is
we're
going
to
create
a
build-up,
create
a
smoke
on
a
small
wallet,
so
in
the
future,
I
would
say
the
user.
F
They
don't
need
hold
ether
in
the
wallet
to
be
able
to
send
by
Justin.
Just
said
why
you
have
to
pay
the
gas
so
as
long
you
have
any
Yossi
20,000,
you
can
still
send
I'll
receive
or
whatever
actions
you
want
to
do
on
your
own
asset
and
also
on
their
world.
No,
there
will
be
no
private
keys.
There
would
be
just
like
a
very
like
general
password
for
you
to
keep
these
private
keys.
F
The
priority
will
be
somehow
a
smart
contra,
so
I
think
all
these
things
like
there's
a
project
called
argent
and
they
are
doing
this
and
the
product
already
launched.
If
you
guys
want
to
give
a
shot
yeah
so
so
there
would
be
more
and
more
advanced
technology
coming
up
and
make
and
people
feel
seamlessly
decent
rice
products.
Yeah.
D
B
Mean
I
think,
probably
over
time,
there'll
be
more
incentive
to
create
a
ward
in
the
first
place.
So
if,
for
example,
you
could
get
say
a
cryptographic
attestation
from
the
driving
Authority
in
Australia
to
say,
you
have
a
driving
license,
for
example,
and
that
would
be
tied
to
your
key,
which
would
be
in
your
wallet,
then
you
have
more
incentive
to
get
a
key
in
the
first
place,
even
outside
a
crypto
so
like,
for
example,
you
could
sign
up
for
something
that
requires
ID
much
faster
and
over
time.
B
E
One
more
point
on
the
mass
adoption:
I
think
the
question
was:
when
do
we
see
or
if
we
see
it
coming
at
the
big
scary
term
and
I
I'm,
not
sure
if
we
can
call
C
mass
adoption
on
Deva
in
general?
Again
it's
on
a
different
products.
So
what
I
see
coming
in
a
new
future,
our
products
where
you
get
interests
and
the
traditional
financial
markets?
You
don't
get
any
interest
anymore
right,
like
on
your
bank,
account
you
get
zero
point
something
interest,
but
on
indeed
by
products.
E
They
are
still
five
seven
percent
interest
in
there.
Just
yesterday
we
heard
about
block
fire
I.
Think
where
you
get
five
percent
interest
for
putting
Bitcoin
in
that's
quite
good,
so
I
think
for
that
the
onboarding
part
is
not
that
hard.
You
only
have
to
solve
the
UX.
You
can
trust
someone
with
your
private
key,
but
you
get
five
percent
interest.
You
can't
get
it
anywhere
else
and
then
you
get
mass
adoption
step
by
step.
I.
B
Just
I
do
worry
about
that.
A
little
bit
like
we
can
make
it
super
easy
for
the
menage.
It
has
the
social
contracts
yeah
there
is
that,
but
it's
important
than
honest
I
think
to
understand
that
gravity
of
this.
How
do
we
solve
like?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
solve
it?
How
should
we
hide
it
from
them
or
not?.
B
A
Exactly
so,
I'm
yep
further
questions
the
audience
know
in
terms
of
investment
applications,
I,
guess,
you've,
you
know,
financing,
you
know,
speculation
of
where
a
finance
of
where
a
price
might
go.
What
about
like
I'm,
just
thinking
of
common
stock,
for
example,
where
they're
looking
at
funding
models
for
continuous
organizations
like
different
types
of
funding
models
for
particular
applications,
I'm,
just
gonna
call
this
an
ignorant
question
is
this
sort
of?
Is
that
outside
of
defy
like
financing
of
other
things?
Or
is
it
simply
like?
C
A
A
D
B
I,
don't
know
I
mean
I
was
on
yeah,
okay,
it
feels
like
when
a
million
uses
right,
yeah
I
mean
really
like
in
the
civil
forum.
It's
about
narrative.
This
isn't
that,
like
human
beings,
we
communicate
with
stories
right
so
the
more
narratives
we
have,
the
more
that
we
tell
other
people,
hey
I,
just
made
this
money
or
hey
I.
Just
did
this
amazing
thing:
heya
played
wow
and
I'm
and
rails.
Really
fun
should
play
with
me
like.
Where
are
these
narratives
I
know
we're
gonna
find
them,
but
that's
what
we
need
right.
B
We
need
like
defies
working
in
some
way,
because
the
people
who
already
have
crypto
want
to
go
longer
and
expand
their
part
of
their
their
pilots.
How
I
see
it?
That's
a
narrative
I,
tell
myself
when
I
see,
what's
happening
and
I
tell
that
to
my
friends,
but
those
who
don't
have
any
crypto.
It's
that's
not
enough
for
them
to
overcome
a
threshold
of
good
to
get
started,
but
hey
if
I
start.
If
I
quit
my
job
and
just
travel
the
world,
maybe
that's
a
narrative
they're
like
hey
I,
want
to
get
in
on
that.
A
G
Personally
think
the
most
popular
one
hasn't
been
created.
Yet
I
love
makeup,
don't
get
me
wrong.
Use
die
everyday,
but
there
might
be
a
way
we
could
get
around
having
a
similar
system
without
mkr
and
when
someone
finds
the
time
to
build
that
combined
with
a
great
UI
UX
experience.
I'd
be
I'd,
be
really
keen
to
play
with
that.
That
doesn't
exist
yet,
but
it's
certainly
doable.
G
G
F
E
Well,
you
mentioned
decentralized
funding
models
already
and
we
saw
them
taking
off
in
2017
quite
a
bit
with
the
the
ICO
waves,
which
are
like
a
trillion-dollar
market
and
I.
Think
that
is
a
real
cool
use
case
for
cryptocurrencies,
because
it
solves
the
problem
of
accessibility.
Everyone
can
invest
in
anything,
I
mean
I
went.
B
Yeah,
so
don't
exactly
know,
I
guess
the
best
is
still
to
come.
I
wonder
whether
even
in
2020
or
maybe
the
next
year
or
two
that
the
the
biggest
advantage
to
come
from
it
is
regulatory
arbitrage
like
holding
US
dollars
without
having
a
US
bank
account
or
even
some
of
the
older
use
cases
of
say
even
buying
drugs
like
on
the
you
know,
on
line
with
where
the
dark
web,
because
that
was
a
clear
advantage
that
cryptocurrencies
head
over
everything
else.
F
So
I
just
saw
another
things.
Another
to
probably
art
I
think
was
to
take
a
look.
Is
a
mixer
I
think
the
certain
needs
for
mixes
like
yesterday,
someone
asked
me
to
send
some
payment
and
then
I
have
to
send,
but
I
don't
want
to
disclose
my
address
so
I
think
mixer
would
be
some
like.
It
would
be
popular
we're.
G
Getting
there
there's
this
project.
Sorry,
this
is
project
called
tornado
cash,
so
it's
it's
kind
of
young
starting,
but
hopefully,
with
you
know
enough
people
putting
their
ether
in
it.
Obviously,
the
more
we
use
it,
the
more
privacy
we
get,
and
it's
basically
just
a
system
to
anonymize
your
ether
essentially,
and
once
we
get
that
yeah.
A
G
But
obviously
you
can
apply
a
lot
of
these
analytical
sort
of
methodologies
to
track
down
who
have
been
issuing
C
cash
or
moving
C
cash
in
the
first
place
and
that
actually
there
was
a
nice
paper
published
about
18
months
ago
that
basically
showed
you
that
it
was
if
you
were
using
it
naively,
the
privacy
advantage
that
you'd
get
was
quite
quite
low,
almost
not
but
yeah.
It's
a
great
point.
B
Tornados,
making
me
think,
like
one
area
that
I'm
sure
a
number
of
you
have
dealt
with,
is
this:
how
much
you
can
actually
figure
out
like
from
you
know,
flock
explores.
It
does
make
me
wonder,
as
these
apps
become
more
more
popular,
what
sort
of
things
will
pop
up
and
ciliary
data
mining
stuff
will
pop
up
and
and
will
generate
its
own
market?
A
G
Yeah,
there's
there's
already
a
great
great
project
out
there
he's.
Actually
it
was
actually
started
by
an
Aussie.
He
lives
in
London,
yeah,
Nexus
mutual
allows
you
to
basically
purchase
insurance
against
particular
smart
contracts
that
you're
interacting
with
which
is
quite
cool.
You
know
completely
decentralized
way,
so
highly
recommend
checking
that
out.
It's
called
Nexus
mutual,
the
guy
running,
it's
called
Hugh
as
I
said:
Ozzy
lives
in
London,
lovely
guy.
F
B
So
right
now
we
have
a
thinker
just
max
Quay,
which
basically,
we
basically
watch
your
other
speed
of
you
know
of
transactions
are
better
being
mined
and
we
basically
say
you
can't
exchange
faster
than
that
and
it
kind
of
acts
as
a
speed
bump.
So
our
Oracle's
are
constantly
pushing
prices
to
us
every
few
minutes.
But
as
you
imagine,
that
delay
allows
somebody
to
see
what's
happening
off.
Jaime
I
always
got
a
big
pump.
B
B
There's
there's
definitely
opportunities
and
people
are
still
trying
to
do
it.
When
there's
enough
volatility
prices
going
up
and
down,
we
actually
saw
someone
recently
do
a
ridiculous
one
with
manipulating
the
spot
market,
a
maker,
because
the
liquidity
was
so
small
was
so
sorry.
The
volume
on
maker
was
so
thin
that
someone
was
able
to
manipulate
the
spot
market
with
uni
swap
actually
profit
on
synthetic
that
one
in
particular.