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From YouTube: Board of Commissioners December 7, 2022
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A
C
D
D
A
A
Here:
okay,
this
evening
is
a
a
special
session
and
we're
going
to
do
things
a
little
differently.
It's
just
basically
one
primary
agenda
item,
which
is
interviewing
attorneys
that
are
going
to
be
competing
for
three
categories
of
legal
services
and
I'm.
Just
going
to
go
start
right
into
the
agenda.
We're
going
to
have
a
presentation
by
Ms
Lewis
to
get
us
started
as
far
as
instructions
and
how
this
evening
flow
is
supposed
to
occur
because.
B
E
B
Give
the
instructions
and
we'll
go
to
public
comments,
certainly
Janina
Lewis
procurement,
Services
Department
director
good
evening,
honorable
mayor
Board
of
Commissioners
this
evening,
we're
here
to
discuss
the
City
Attorney
Services.
As
you
know,
the
City
Attorney
Services
expired
October
10
2022
on
October
11
2022.
The
board
approved
releasing
a
new
RFP
for
such
services
on
October
18
2022,
the
RFP
230019
p-jl
City
Attorney
Services
was
released
for
proposals.
The
due
date
was
November
17
2022
at
3
pm
on
the
closing
date
of
the
RFP.
The
city
received
proposals
from
three
firms.
B
B
230041-P-Jl
litigation
attorney
Services
were
released
on
the
same
date
and
due
November
15
2022
at
3
pm
on
the
closing
dates.
We
received
two
two
proposals
for
the
special
counsel:
Attorney
Services.
They
have
both
been
invited
to
interview
and
on
the
litigation
attorney
Services.
We
actually
received
four
and
we
have
invited
all
four
firms
to
interview
the
process
this
evening
is
to
interview
the
proposers
and
determine
a
final
selection,
which
will
be
publicly
announced
at
the
next
board
session.
Monday
December,
12
2022.
B
A
A
F
F
G
F
H
F
Our
fees
are
not
sufficient
to
cover
these
particular
applications
or
there
needs
to
be
some
other
mechanism
to
recover
staff
costs
for
these
intense
projects.
Secondly,
what
else
did
we
learn?
Last
night
we
had
one
person
who
is
an
affected
party
said
he
didn't
receive
his
notice.
I
went
by
Mr
Vaughn's
house.
He
lives
right.
His
property
is
right
there
on
the
East
Boundary,
all
those
houses
on
the
entrance
way.
C
F
F
We
need
to
find
some
other
mechanism
to
confirm
or
to
better
notify
people
of
these
particular
issues.
Lastly,
and
our
rules
of
procedure
or,
however,
we
want
to
codify
it
any
project
that
comes
before
the
city
of
a
certain
size,
whether
it's
lot
value
square
footage
height,
set
certain
parameters
that
when
this
comes
to
the
building
or
planning
department,
it
sends
a
trigger.
F
So
the
community
knows
about
it.
Why
should
we
always
be
the
last
ones
to
know
about
it
started
in
March
2020
covet
again,
underneath
the
radar
get
a
text
a
couple
weeks
ago?
What's
this
Keystone
Heights
I,
look
on
the
Planning
and
Zoning
thing:
there's
a
blank
Square
showing
it
coming
up,
but
no
backup.
F
F
I
I
I
The
reason
I'm
bringing
this
up
is
that
the
vote
of
the
pnz
was
mentioned
several
times
by
the
applicant
and
staff
last
night,
since
the
current
zoning
doesn't
allow
for
51
unit
for
a
51-unit
project,
the
applicant
was
deferring
to
the
land
use
category
that
could
have
given
them
an
Avenue
and
or
argument
to
allow
for
rezoning
to
a
more
dense
housing
project.
I
I
I
I
I
I
For
example,
in
code
Harbor
property
was
zoned
for
some
form
of
commercial
use.
They
didn't
have
the
right
to
build
400
apartments.
They
had
the
right
to
ask
to
build
400
apartments,
the
prior
Board
of
Commissioners
granted
them
that
request.
Unfortunately,
in
my
opinion,
maybe
the
property
doesn't
work
as
a
commercial
operation.
I
A
I
I
J
I
I
have
a
more
of
a
constitutional
question
for
for
the
attorneys
in
rather
than
more
of
a
you
know,
a
city
Charter
question
stemming
from
the
the
Declaration
of
Independence,
beginning
with
that
the
Declaration
of
Independence
States,
a
a
long
train
of
user
patients
pursuing
invariably
the
same
object
to
establish
despots
and
tyrants.
J
Let
these
facts
be
submitted
to
a
candid
world
that
mankind
is
more
disposed
to
suffer
while
Evils
are
sufferable
and
as
due
process
in
the
14th
Amendment,
Taking,
Liberties
properties
and
life,
while
birthing
or
so-called
naturalizing
in
it.
It's
jurisdiction
in
the
14th.
Amendment
is
appalling,
see
our
Supreme
Court
conducting
law
on
pronouns
in
light
of
direct
objects.
J
The
court
case
relative
to
this
long
train
of
use
or
patience
I
feel
pulseograph
versus
Long
Island,
Railroad
Company,
it's
commonly
used
in
law
school
and
this
pulse
graph
versus
Long
Island,
Railroad
Company.
There's
an
issue
there.
Where
someone
was
boarding,
a
train
and
a
bag
of
fireworks
went
off
knocking
over
a
coin-operated
scale,
injuring
a
person
when
this
long
train
of
use
or
patients
in
the
Declaration
of
Independence
blows
up
in
the
14th
Amendment,
while
birthing
or
naturalizing
in
it.
J
I
would
expect
that
there
be
a
revisit
to
this
court
case
here
in
light
of
such
a
choo,
choo,
train
and
and
law.
Thank
you.
A
K
So
now
that
person
that
built,
that
house
is
holding
the
Commissioners
irresponsible
for
making
bad
decisions
and
giving
them
permits
to
build
on
something
that
was
not
feasible.
So
I
thought
about
that.
I
was
like
this
is
not
just
happening
in
Tarpon.
You
see
it
in
Daytona.
You
see
it
in
the
keys.
Everything
that
Charlotte
I
was
just
talking
to
a
lady
today
that
they're
going
crazy
down
there.
It's
like
and
all
the
Panthers
now
are
coming
up
here
and
that's
been
a
big
concern,
because
now
there
was
a
panther
in
poke.
K
K
What
John
said
was
true,
like
you've
got
to
be
responsible
yeah,
we
want
growth,
but
we
also
need
to
look
at
the
bigger
picture
and
I
think
that
each
one
of
you
are
doing
that
and
seeing
the
impact
that
it
has
on
this
community.
So
I
applaud
you
all
for
your
hard
work
and
dedication
in
that.
So
thank
you.
A
A
You
Ms
manusa
said
we
received
any
okay,
all
right,
we're
going
to
go
ahead
and
start
the
interviews
and
as
a
reminder,
we've
got
30
minutes
for
each
law
firm
and
and
then
that
will
include
your
presentation
and
also
questions
from
the
commission.
I'd
also
we're
going
to
go
in
sequence
and.
H
A
A
reminder
just
to
be
some
Commissioners
would
like
to
have
a
little
time
to
ask
questions
as
well.
So
if,
if
ask
a
pertinent
once
and
then,
if
we
have
time,
we
can
kind
of
go
through
a
second
round
again,
but
ask
your
questions
it's
very
important
this
evening,
so
the
first
category
is
for
our
special
counsel
and
carton.
Fields
is
up
first,
so
go
ahead.
Sir.
Thank.
M
M
So
we
are
a
national
firm.
Our
headquarters
is
here
in
Tampa.
Our
main
office
is
in
Tampa.
We
have
330
attorneys
Nationwide,
we're
a
full
service,
Law
Firm,
just
a
little
bit.
We
have
bti
Consulting,
we're
one
of
the
24
most
recommended
law
firms
in
the
nation
and
we've
been
cited
in
Chambers
USA
and
that
that's
a
publication
that
takes
comments
directly
from
clients
in
our
white
collar
and
government
investigations,
group
of
which
I
had
I'm
the
chair
and
our
Construction
Group,
and
our
local
government
group
too,
has
been
cited
in
in
Chambers.
M
So
these
are
the
different
practice
areas
that
we
have:
we've
bolded,
the
ones
that
we
think
are
relevant
to
to
this
matter,
that
we
have
applied
for
the
government
law
and
Consulting
our
government
contracts
area
and
our
White
Collar
government
investigations
area
Practice
Group,
but
we
in
our
Construction
Group,
but
we're
also
fortunate
that
we
have
subject
matter
experts
in
many
other
fields
and
so
from
time
to
time.
When
we're
doing
these
type
of
Investigations
or
internal
investigations.
M
Just
a
little
bit
more
about
Carlton
Fields,
we're
AV
rated
by
Martin,
Dale
Hubble.
All
the
lawyers
here
have
been
mentioned
in
Florida
Super
Lawyers
best
lawyers
in
America
in
2023,
including
the
three
that
you
see
here
before
you
for
White
Collar,
key
tan,
which
is
a
false
claims.
Act
practice,
whistleblower
practice
can
government
relations
and
Aaron
is
in
our
group
in
our
White
Collar
group.
In
those
areas
that
you
see
there.
M
M
I
worked
in
the
U.S
attorney's
Office
in
Brooklyn
New
York
in
the
eastern
district
of
New
York
for
three
years
in
the
early
2000s
and
I've,
been
with
Carlton
Fields
I
started
my
19th
year
in
January,
and
so
the
white
collar
internal
investigations
practice
is
always
is
all
we
do
and
we
provide
counsel
not
only
to
corporations
both
public
and
private.
We
also
do
work
for
individuals
and
recently,
we've
done
a
work.
We've
done
work
with
government
or
quasi-governmental
entities
that
you
see
there.
M
Last
year
we
conducted
an
internal
investigation
for
heart
in
Hillsborough
County
and
it
involved
a
number
of
issues,
but
one
of
the
pertinent
issues.
One
issue
that
we
think
were
pertinent
was
that
it
involved
a
vendor
who
was
suggesting
language
to
the
staff
at
heart
to
put
in
an
RFP,
and
they
suggested
the
language
that
would
make
it
seem
like
only
they
could
qualify
for
that
RFP.
M
So
we
interviewed
a
number
of
folks
both
on
staff
at
this
third
party
consulting
company.
We
looked
at
the
rules
and
regulations
of
heart.
We
suggested
to
them
some
ways
to
improve
it,
so
that
that
type
of
activity
wouldn't
happen
again,
and
that
is
not
identical
to
what
to
what
it
appears
or
what
may
have
happened
here,
but
certainly
it's
relevant
to
it.
M
We
also
this.
Last
year
we
also
conducted
an
internal
investigation
of
a
private
company,
but
that
involved
contracts
with
the
state
of
Florida
here
in
Pinellas
County
involving
allegations
of
criminal
conduct.
So
this
is
the
type
of
work
we
do.
We
do
it
all
the
time
we
wanted
to
get
cantinkler
involved.
Ken
is
an
expert
in
local
government,
land
use
and
zoning,
and
so
we
certainly
wanted
his
his
expertise
and
Ken
would
be
a
major
part
of
our
team,
obviously
dealing
with
those
pertinent
issues,
and
so
that's
sort
of
that's
who
we
are.
M
That's,
who
our
firm
is
it's
a
type
of
work
that
we
do?
We
thought
it
might
be
most
productive
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
all
may
have.
I
will
tell
you
that
we
watched
the
October
11th
12th
County
Commissioner
meeting,
so
we've
seen
Mr
Eisen.
We,
commissioner,
as
we
saw
your
presentation
honorable
mayor,
we
saw
your
presentation
so
we're
pretty
well
versed
on
these
issues.
M
M
A
Should
have
asked
this
the
beginning,
what
I'm
going
to
ask
each
Law
Firm
at
the
outset
of
the
categories,
or
at
least
your
presentation
as
to
whether
you've
had
any
Communications
with
any
of
the
any
of
the
Commissioners
prior
to
the
RFP
being
issued.
D
Hi
Mr
Schwartz
glad
to
see
you
here,
I
have
a
number
of
questions,
I'm
I'm,
going
to
try
to
be
as
brief
as
possible
because
we
have
a
little
bit
limited
time.
D
M
Investigations
is
that
we
come
up
with
a
scope
of
work,
and
so
honorable
mayor,
if
you
would
be
the
liaison
or
whoever
the
liaison
is
with,
we
present
that
so
in
the
whole
commission
would
have
an
understanding
of
what
our
scope
of
work
would
be,
and
it's
typically
we
review
documents.
We
talk
to
individuals
that
we
think
are
relevant,
but
it's
all
within
the
scope
of
work,
because
we've
got
to
agree
on
what
the
parameters
of
this
of
the,
what
the
special
counsel
is
assigned
to
do.
M
Basically,
so
it
really
does
start
with
that
scope
of
work.
We
would
take
input
from
you
all
as
to
what
you'd
like
us
to
do,
but
the
main
things
that
we
do
do
are
review
documents
and
interview.
Individuals
here
would
be
not
only
employees
or
folks
on
the
staff,
but
also
outside
parties
right
so
folks
from
the
Morgan
group
representatives
of
the
Morgan
group,
we
would
interview
you
all
and
we
would
you
know,
ask
for
documents.
I
know
that
you've
collected
700
over
700
emails.
D
So
you
would
go
through
a
typical
interview
process
with
whomever
your
your
list
of
affected
people.
What
do
you
do
in
relationship
to
decline
interviews?
So
if
you
go
to
XYZ
and
they
say
no
I
don't
want
to
talk
to
you
right.
M
So
we
can't
force
people
to
talk
to
us,
obviously,
but
it's
rare
that
folks,
just
out
and
out
decline
to
do
interviews,
but
if
they
do,
you
know
we
note
that
in
the
record
and
I
think
you
had
asked
about
sort
of
what
we
do
I
mean
after
we
do
the
interviews
and
the
and
we
review
the
documents
and
we,
you
know
we
sort
of
synthesize
all
that
information
down.
M
We
would
come
up
with
a
written
report
that
we
would
present,
which
would
address,
obviously,
the
issues
and
I
think
in
this
case
we
would
also
address
ways
to
assure
up
any
ordinances
that
we
thought
were
necessary
and
other
advice
that
we
thought
was
necessary,
but
that
would
be
all
part
of
the
scope
of
work
that
we
would
that
we
would
agree
to.
But
to
get
back
to
your
question,
if
people
declined
interview
with
us,
we
can't
force
them
to
interview
with
us,
but
we
certainly
there
are
other
ways
to
go
around
it.
M
So
there
might
be
other
folks
that
we
have
to
talk
to.
There
might
be
documents
we'll
make
sure
that
there
are
no
gaps.
I,
guess
is
the
question
or
the
answer.
D
I
think
I'm,
through
with
my
questions.
Thank
you,
commissioner.
E
E
M
So
we
we
always
look
to
some
sort
of
guideline.
There's
got
to
be
something
out
there
or
we
think
that
there's
something
out
there
and
really
for
us.
When
we
do
internal
investigations,
it
becomes
sort
of
a
collective
discussion
and
we
look
to
others.
If
there
are
no
direct
guidelines,
there
might
be
analogous
or
ones
that
we
can
and
that
we
use
that
are
similar,
and
so
we
really
do
it
that
way
and
but
everything
we
say
when
you
say
right
or
wrong,
and
sometimes
it's
gray
right.
M
Sometimes
it's
it's
neither,
but
we
certainly
outline
how
we
came
to
that
decision
right,
wrong
or
somewhere
in
the
middle
based
on
the
evidence
that's
presented
to
us
and
that
we
individually
locate
or
research
that
we
do.
E
M
Well,
I
mean
I
wish
that
there
were
smoking
gun
in
every
internal
investigation.
There.
Rarely
is
to
be
honest.
Occasionally
there
is
obviously
if
it's
there,
it's
a
major
celebration
that
we
can
find,
but
typically
it's
a
lot
more
work
than
that.
It's
really
it's
how
we
build
our
cases
or
build
the
case,
and
so
you
really
have
to
start
at
the
base.
Look
for
evidence,
talk
to
people
see
what
the
implications
are
of
different
activities
or
different
actions
or
different
writings.
M
You
know,
email
is,
can
be
a
very
imprecise
method
of
communication,
and
so
maybe
one
way
that
that
we
read
emails.
When
we
talk
to
somebody
they
may
say
no
I
didn't
mean
this
I
meant
something
else.
I
just
I
use
the
wrong
word,
and
then
you
have
to
measure
that
against.
Does
that
make
sense
right
or
does
that
explanation
make
sense,
so
I
think
smoking
guns
are
rare
to
find,
and
it's
really
just
a
case
of
hard
work
and
building
the
case
and
putting
it
together.
Sure.
H
E
M
It
really
depends
on
the
issue
and
I
think
for
us.
It
would
really
depend
with
this
scope
of
work
and
and
what
we're
going
to
do-
and
you
know,
depending
on
on
the
services
that
you
need
from
your
special
counsel,
like
I,
said
we
have
an
idea
of
the
general
issue
here,
but
you
know
what
exactly
the
commission's
looking
for.
Commissioners
are
looking
for
at
the
end
of
the
day.
We'd
all
want
to
agree
on
that.
M
So
it
really
depends
on
the
time,
because
what
it
depends
on
what
we
find
you
know
sometimes
we'll
start
investigating
an
issue,
and
you
end
up
going
to
in
One
Direction,
and
then
you
switch
and
you
go
in
another
direction
and
you
you
find
documents
here.
Then
you
talk
to
a
couple
more
people
and
they
have
some
documents,
and
so
it
really
it
I
can't
give
you
a
definite
time
frame.
M
I
think
the
way
we've
scoped
it
out
is
a
six
to
eight
month
period,
and
we
did
that
based
on
communication
with
Miss
Lewis
as
to
what
y'all
were
expecting,
it
could
go
quicker.
It
could
go
a
little
later,
yeah.
M
E
M
Think
the
work
I
think
that
the
work
time
period
we
thought
would
be
a
six
that's
six
to
eight
month.
Okay,
all.
O
O
O
I
didn't
really
see
that
you
handled
municipality
real
estate,
you
handle
real
estate.
Do
you
is
that
not
something
in
your
purview?
Well,.
M
C
P
Good
evening,
Commissioners
Ken
tinkler
recall
in
the
fields.
Yes,
we
handle
real
estate
from
both
the
municipalities
perspective
and
from
private
landowners
perspectives,
so
have
experience
with
both
and
I
would
say,
I
know
of
the
two
individuals
you
named
simply
because
they've
been
around
a
long
time,
but
we've
now
had
the
opportunity
to
work
on
a
particular
matter
with
that.
O
Thank
you.
Do
you
have
a
ballpark
idea,
what
something
like
this
could
cost
the
city.
M
So
I
think
we've
we've
suggested
or
we've
put
down,
I
think
in
our
proposal,
a
financial
estimate,
but
again
that
is
what
really
depends
on
the
scope
of
work,
and
so
what
we
would
want
to
do
is
we
would
want
to
make
sure
up
front
that
once
we
agree
on
the
scope
of
work,
that
we
have
an
understanding
of
what
that
cost.
What
that
it's
typically
a
range
of
cost
would
be.
O
I
follow
what
you're
saying,
but
having
the
experience
you
would
be
able
to
Ballpark
something
to
me
or
at
least
to
this
board
just
to
get
a
ballpark
idea.
Is
it
in
80
000?
Is
it
a
hundred
thousands
of
500
000,
because
what
where
I'm
going
with
it
is
price
wise,
so
I
know
you
said
it
six
to
eight
months,
but
I
don't
know
is
that
six
to
eight
months
working
24
hours
a
day?
Is
it
working
a
couple
of
hours
a
day?
O
You
know
that
can
vary
greatly
with
you
know
the
per
hour
charge.
So
that's
what
I'm
looking
for
sure.
M
Sure
so
I
think
what
we've
done
in
our
proposal
is
I,
think
we've
capped
it
at
a
hundred
and
sixty
thousand
dollars.
If
that
helps
you,
if
that,
if
that
gives
you
a
football
Park
figure,
it
could
be
less
than
that,
but
we
wanted
to
give
you
all
some
upside
protection.
O
Well,
I
asked
this
only
for
the
mere
fact
that
at
the
end
of
this,
if
there
is
no
Smoking
Gun,
we
have
to
be
able
to
justify
why
we
went
for
a
special
counsel
and
there's
a
big
difference
between
you
know,
numbers
so,
I'm
glad
you
gave
me
that
I
really
don't
have
very
much
more
I'm
okay
going
on
to
the
next
one
mayor.
Thank
you.
Okay,.
N
L
M
Trial,
yes,
well,
we're
we're
special
counsel,
so
our
role
would
just
be
the
internal
investigation
and
a
report
to
the
Commissioners.
So
we
wouldn't
be
and
I
think
that's
what
you
want
you
want.
You
want
somebody
who's
independent!
You
don't
want
them
to
to
then
do
the
litigation,
because
there
could
be
a
fear
of
bias.
So
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
is
we're
just
independent.
M
Now,
if
there's
a
if
there's
Council
that
is
going
to
go
through
the
trial,
we
could
get
them
up
to
speed
on
what
we've
learned,
what
we've
done,
and
we
would
certainly
do
that,
but
just
generally
trial
experience
we
all
have
trial
experience.
We've
all
done
that
I
had
that
number
of
Trials
when
I
was
a
U.S
attorney
or
assistant
U.S
attorney.
So
it's
not
that,
but
but
our
role
here,
as
we
see
at
a
special
counsel,
would
be
performing
the
internal
investigation,
providing
feedback
in
the
form
of
a
report
to
you
all.
N
L
And
you
know
you
know
there
was
a
quote
of
mine
that
got
a
little
bit
construed
about.
You
know
we
don't
like
what
the
First
Council
seeking.
Then
we
want
a
second
one
and
that's
not
the
case-
we're
not
here
for
a
Witch
Hunt,
we're
here
for
the
truth.
And
could
you
see
why
this
board,
with
the
unique
and
special
situation
that
it
all
was
was
at
least
requesting
to
have
this
looked
into.
M
But
of
course,
I
mean
there's
no
question
about
it
and
that's
why
we
put
in,
for
it
I
mean
this.
This
type
of
issue
fits
what
we
do
on
a
daily
basis.
Very
well
right,
so
we
are
typically
the
independent,
firm
or
body
that
comes
in.
Does
an
investigation
looks
at
ethics.
You
know
looks
at
our
folks
being
independent.
M
Are
they
doing
the
right
thing
and
what
is
what
has
been
the
Fallout
or
what
has
been
the
effect
of
what
happened?
So
this
is
certainly
an
issue
just
given
everything
that
I've
read
in
the
Press
I
would
warrant
an
internal
investigation
and
answers
right.
That's
I
think
that's
what
you
all
are
looking
for.
L
Yes,
sir
and
I
see
that
your
group
has
you
each
have
your
your
own
unique
skill
sets
and
how
is
that
going
to
be
intertwined
to
proceed
with
this
Council
right.
M
So
so
we
typically,
we
will
well
when
we
look
at
documents,
certainly
documents
that
involve
land
use,
zoning
Municipal
real
estate-
you
know
we
would
we
would
rely
on
Ken
when
we
do
interviews
of
folks
that
have
those
interactions,
Ken
would
be
part
of
those
interviews.
We
interview
in
teams
of
two
it's
best
practices,
that's
how
we
do
things,
but
then
we
all
get
together
and
make
sure
that
we're
all
on
the
same
page
with
the
knowledge,
but
the
one
benefit
I.
Think
you
have
of
a
larger
firm
like
ours
is.
M
A
You,
okay,
your
credentials
are
impressive
and
I've
known
about
Carlton
Fields
for
a
very
long
time,
you've
been
around
and
I
I.
A
Just
from
my
perspective,
any
this
is
a
two-way
street
you're
going
to
listen
to
us
as
far
as
what
our
thoughts
are
as
far
as
what
where
your
services
would
be,
and
then
also,
if
you
have
questions
and
and
I
think
you're
you're
kind
of
we
ask
a
question
you:
could
you
kind
of
clarify
that
a
little
bit
and
I
appreciate
that
that's
the
way
it
ought
to
be
I'm
not
looking
at
Cost
I
feel
that
this
matter
is
hugely
significant
to
the
well-being
of
Tarpon
Springs.
A
This
was
a
a
just,
a
a
tremendous
catastrophe.
In
my
opinion,
that
has
basically
kept
this
Commission
in
its
City
distracted
for
a
couple
of
years
now
and
has
kept
us
from
moving
ahead.
The
way
we
should,
if
you
find
something
fine,
if
you
don't
find
something,
that's
good,
because
many
many
people
who
feel
that
there's
something
there
are
going
to
be
able
to
say
well.
At
least
this
thing
was
studied.
It
was
studied
by
an
outside
Law
Firm.
A
Without
any
connections
to
anybody
and
I'm
hoping
that
would
at
least
put
the
matter
to
rest,
but
I
also
appreciate
what
you're
saying
as
far
as
policies
that
you
would
come
up
with
and
say:
look
this
could
have
avoided
if
you
had
this
policy
and
that
policy
in
place.
For
me,
that's
the
top
priority
to
this
investigation.
A
If
you
want
to
call
it
that
or
a
review
or
an
internal
review
of
what
our
policies
procedures
are
and
then
our
conversations
if
something
comes
out
of
it,
that
is
more
actionable
than
we
would
be
dealing
with
that
on
a
case-by-case
basis.
This
entire
three
category
approach
to
Legal
Services
was
structured
to
try
and
avoid
incentivizing
one
category
over
another.
In
other
words,
special
counsel
is
going
to
find
something
because
you're
also
the
litigator
in
this
matter,
and
that
sort
of
thing
we've
done
that
intentionally
and
so
I
really
don't
have
any
questions.
A
I
wanted
to
share
with
you
at
least
what
from
a
bird's
eye
view.
I
think
you've
already
done
your
homework
a
little
bit
as
far
as
what
some
of
the
issues
are,
there's
others.
Once
you
get
into
this
interview,
I
know
I'm
the
liaison,
but
I
think,
as
commissioner
Eisner
had
asked.
Any
commissioner
would
have
the
ability
to
give
you
a
call
and
ask
questions
and
we're
a
council
manager
form
of
government.
We
abide
by
the
Sunshine
Law.
A
We
can't
I
can't
be
briefed
by
you
and
then
go
talk
to
another
commissioner
and
tell
them
what's
going
on.
So
that's
something
that
is
going
to
have
to
be
part
of
this
process
and
understanding.
But
if
there
is
something
that,
for
example,
you
would
need
as
part
of
the
investigation
internal
to
the
city,
then
that
would
be
something
I
could
arrange
for
you,
but
in
terms
of
any
meaningful
results
or
guidance.
A
If
there's
some
significant
guidance,
that's
needed,
then
that
matter
is
going
to
have
to
be
presented
to
the
commission
and
then
you're
going
to
have
to
get
the
direction
by
the
by
the
board
itself.
So
the
I
know
that
you've
got
your.
The
scope
of
service
is
what
you
mean
by
that
is
really,
in
my
mind.
A
Kind
of
a
framework
of
which
you're
going
to
work
within
the
scope
of
services
is
basically
your
your
what
what
you're
going
to
be
doing,
but
also
there
we're
going
to
give
you
some
kind
of
insight
as
far
as
what
the
interests
are.
But
then
it's
going
to
have
to
be
it's
going
to
depend
on
each
law,
firm's
expertise
in
order
to
cultivate
that
and
try
and
get
to
the
bottom
of
what
we're
doing.
A
I've
frequently
said:
we're
we're
Bakers,
butchers
and
Candlestick
makers
up
here,
we're
not
attorneys,
and-
and
we
need
some
guidance
in
that
regard,
and
and
that's
where
your
expertise
and
and
things
like,
for
example,
I'd
very
much
appreciate.
Well,
you
know,
mayor
vaticotis,
you've
got
a
classic
situation
of
somebody
missed
something
here
and
it
could
have
been
avoided
if
only
this
would
have
happened
and
we're
finding
that
in
a
lot
of
areas
right
now
that
we've
got
policies
that
should
have
been
in
place
for
a
very
long
time.
A
M
E
M
Right,
if
it's,
if
it's
something
different,
if
we're
just
interviewing
some
of
the
staff-
and
it's
just
who
did
you
talk
to?
When
did
you
talk
to
just
trying
to
get
to
who?
What,
when,
where?
Why
might
be
Aaron
and
I,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
all
get
together?
So
we
all
know
what
happened
at
the
interviews
and
what
we
try
to
do.
Is
we
try
to
streamline
this?
M
So
there
are
four
lawyers
in
our
firm
who
would
be
working
on
this
and
we
try
to
structure
it
the
most
efficient
way
possible.
So
we
don't
have
12
people
doing
this
and
someone's
over
here
doing
this
someone's
over
here
doing
this
we
we
run
a
pretty
tight
ship
and
we
try
to
keep.
We
want
to
keep
everybody
on
the
same
page
and
mayor
I
just
want
to
comment.
We
would
be
what
we.
H
M
Not
to
do
is
we
try
not
to
piecemeal
findings
as
we
find
them,
meaning
we
we
can
provide
General
updates
as
we
go
along,
and
we
certainly
want
to
do
that
to
you
or
for
you
for
the
commissioners.
M
But
but
we
don't
say
well,
we
found
this
and
then
in
two
weeks
we
talked
to
somebody
else
and
it's
reversed
or
something
changes
right.
So
we
try
not
to
piecemeal
it,
but
I
will
say
if
we
find
something
and
we
deem
it
important
and
it
and
you
need
to
know
about
it
now.
We
also
won't
wait.
So
we
won't
wait
till
the
end
of
the
interview.
So
if
there's,
if
there's
a
policy
or
procedure
that
we
think
you
ought
to
change
this
now
or
we'll,
we
would
recommend
that
you
change
this
now.
M
We
will
certainly
advise
you
contemporaneously
I've,.
E
Got
another
follow-up
question
from
a
travel
standpoint:
do
you
do
interviews
in
person
or
Zoom
or
phone
calls
right?
What's
the
best
yeah.
M
We've
we've
been
so
so
we
do
we
can
do.
We
can
do
that,
but
I
will
tell
you
there's
no
substitute
for
interviewing
people
in
person.
Sure
there
just
isn't
you
get
to
read
the
body
language
and
we've
done.
You
know
hundreds
of
interviews
now
thousands
of
interviews
that
you
really
get
a
feel
for
people,
what
their
agendas
are,
what
their
motivations
are,
how
they
answer
questions,
how
they
look,
and
so
we
try
to
do
all
the
interviews
in
person.
If
we
can
it's.
E
E
When
you
travel
to
an
interview,
Tarpon
Clearwater,
wherever
it
could
be,
I
see
you
have
a
charge
per
mile,
but
do
you
charge
per
hour
then
also,
while
you
drive
there
so.
M
M
Yeah,
no,
no!
No!
It's
it's
a
good
question
it
just
it
really
depends
on
how
we
set
this
matter
up
so
typically,
if
it's
just
a
mileage
reimbursement
which
usually
ends
up
being
pretty
nominal
sure,
it's
really
more
that
more
the
time
that
we
do
that,
but
but
there
are
ways
to
set
that
up
to
incorporate
everything
into
a
flat
fee
if
you're
all
interested
in
doing
that,
there
are
ways
there
are
different
ways
to
do
and
we're
flexible
I
guess
is
my
point.
H
M
C
M
You
yep
and
you
you
may
have
to
let
us
know
who
who
our
bosses
or
who
the
client
we
look
at
it
as
who
who
the
client
is
right,
who
directs
it
so
I,
I,
guess
I
would
I
would
think
that
our
that
our
client
would
be
the
Board
of
Commissioners,
with
the
liaison,
as
I
heard
in
the
I,
think
the
October,
11th
or
12th
meeting
being
The
Honorable
mayor,
but
I
think
we
would
report
to
you
all.
M
That's
how
I
look
at
it.
If,
if
there's
someone
else,
we
should
be
reporting
to
another
body.
M
You
know
you
need
to
let
us
know,
but
all
of
these
issues
would
be
worked
out
in
the
scope
of
work
who
who
we
report
to,
because
we
would
want
somebody
to
certainly
talk
to
on
a
day-to-day
basis
to
take
direction
from
to
let
people
know
what
we're
doing
so
that,
because
we
want
to
be
accountable
to
you
all.
So
you
know,
if
there's
other,
if
there's
another
body,
that
we
should
be
reporting
to
or
should
be
the
client
you
have
to.
Let
us
know.
O
M
It
is
I,
guess
I
I,
viewed
who
our
client
is
as
the
Board
of
Commissioners.
So
all
of
you,
okay,
that
is,
that
all
right.
A
I'm
going
to
confirm
that
your
client
is
the
city
of
Tarpon
Springs.
Your
fiduciary
duty
is
to
the
city
as
a
whole,
not
any
individual
member
up
here,
any
member
of
the
staff
and
that's
sometimes
a
difficult
thing
for
people
that
we
have
as
attorneys
and
other
people
that
are
under
that
are
employing
neither
contractually
or
by
salary
to
remember
and
and
so
I'm.
Very
much
a
stickler
on
that
point
and
and
I
appreciate
that
question
from
commissioner
Eisen
I.
Quite
frankly,
I
I.
A
N
A
We're
at
648
Ms
manusas,
that's
about
that's
exactly
30
minutes!
Thank
you
very
much,
Mr,
Schwartz
and
and
Company,
and
what
we're
going
to
do
is
go
to
public
comments
now
for
this
and
that
somebody
may
have
some
questions
for
you
from
the
public
so
as
well.
If
you
want
to
just
stay
handy
here,.
M
A
Q
Q
You've
probably
noticed
we
bid
on
all
of
the
bids
that
you
put
out,
but
we
don't
always
bid
on
City
attorney
positions,
and
we
chose
to
do
this
for
special
counsel,
City
attorney
and
others
and
we'll
address
each
in
turn,
because
city
of
Tarpon
Springs
is
not
like
any
other
City
to
us.
I'll
explain
a
little
more
about
that.
Q
Let's
see
if
I
can
get
this
thing
to
work,
Dan
all
right!
Thank
you.
Let
me
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
our
Law
Firm,
so
it's
first
off
this
was
in
Sumter
County
in
The
Villages.
That
office
is
still
there.
That
office
was
created
in
2013,
and
it's
now
a
satellite
office
we're
not
there
every
day,
it's
primarily
for
Estate,
Planning
and
real
estate
matters.
However,
our
main
office
is
in
Orlando
and
you
can
actually
see
it
in
the
photo
there.
We
are
a
general
practice
firm
with
a
government
law
practice.
Q
We
represent
several
cities
and
multiple
counties
on
different
projects.
We
have
board
certified
experts
in
real
estate
and
tax
law.
I'm
the
board
certified
expert
in
real
estate.
Mr
Grant,
is
the
board
certified
expert
in
tax
law.
We
worked
very
hard
to
become
experts
in
these
areas.
It
took
years
of
experience
and
because
we're
passionate
about
public
service.
Q
We
want
to
contribute
those
legal
services
to
municipalities,
counties
and
other
governmental
entities,
and
we
do
it
at
a
lower
hourly
rate,
a
little
bit
more
about
us,
we've
actually
I
just
applied
for
bird
certification
in
city,
county
and
local
government.
That's
not
to
say,
I'll
get
it
I
applied.
We
currently
have
five
lawyers
in
January,
we'll
have
seven.
Not
all
of
the
attorneys
would
be
working
on
the
special
counsel
project
if
we
were
awarded
it,
but
the
three
people
standing
before
you
tonight
would
be.
Q
Currently
our
government
clients
are
the
town
of
Hilliard
Florida.
The
town
of
Pearson
town
of
Pearson
is
the
fern
capital
of
the
world,
the
town
of
Callahan,
Florida,
St,
John's,
County
and
Citrus
County.
We
just
became
lawyers
again
for
St
John's
County
on
a
major
real
estate
project
and
that's
a
picture
actually
of
where
the
project
is
taking
place.
Essentially,
what's
happened
is
due
to
the
impacts
of
hurricanes,
Ian
and
Nicole.
The
beaches
have
been
terribly
eroded,
so
what
happens?
Q
Is
the
county
and
FEMA
want
to
work
together
to
renourish
the
beaches,
to
keep
the
beaches
good
to
keep
tourists
coming
and
what
we're
doing
is
negotiating
with
a
thousand
beachfront
property
owners
to
obtain
easements?
You
can't
just
go
into
someone's
property
and
dump
sand
on
it
or
remake
their
Beach.
You
have
to
get
their
permission,
so
that's
one
thing
we're
doing
right
now
and
I'm.
Also
the
Code
Compliance
special
master
in
Citrus
County
Florida
I've
been
doing
that
for
for
almost
six
years.
Q
Q
We
all
took
that
one
pretty
hard
and
as
a
result
of
my
civil
and
criminal
experience,
you
know,
I've
had
about
50
trials,
most
have
been
jury.
I
received
all
my
degrees
from
the
University
of
Florida,
though
I
did
study
abroad
in
a
few
places
and
because
I
don't
get
out
much
I
actually
have
a
lot
of
legal
interests
that
I'm
interested
in
as
the
City
attorney.
We
care
very
much
about
what
the
code
says
and
improving
the
code.
Q
I've
already
heard
some
good
discussion
tonight
about
process,
and
so
there's
a
book
called
The
checklist
Manifesto
that
I'm
a
big
fan
of,
because
it
turns
out
that
the
main
way
we've
been
able
to
reduce
deaths
and
piloting
is
by
following
a
checklist.
How
have
surgeons
prevented
people
from
getting
infected
and
improved
survival
rates?
We
follow
a
checklist
I'm,
a
big
fan
of
that
for
City
work
as
well.
Q
There
are
certain
things
that
you
have
to
do
each
and
every
time,
for
example,
Sunshine
Law
public
records,
and
then
you
get
into
some
other
things,
so
I
have
personal
interests
as
well.
I'll
skip
that
just
a
little
bit
on
a
personal
level.
Q
You
know:
I
I
met
my
wife
five
years
ago
and
the
first
place
she
wanted
to
go
was
Tarpon
Springs
and
she
is
a
citizen
of
Greece
happens
to
be
a
Greek
Orthodox
I,
converted
myself
11
years
ago,
and
we're
kind
of
a
funny
law
firm
in
that
of
our
five
lawyers.
Three
are
Greek
Orthodox.
The
fourth
has
a
father,
who's,
Russian,
Orthodox
and
so
Tarpon
Springs
is
never
quite
far
from
our
minds.
My
daughter's
name
is
ariadne
and
I
always
have
to
explain
that
name
to
people
wherever
I
go
here.
Q
R
Thank
you
Christian
good
evening
Commissioners.
As
Christian
said,
my
name
is
Gerard
Grant
I
am
the
co-managing
partner
of
the
firm
and
prior
to
forming
our
firm
I've
had
a
lot
of
experience.
Primarily,
my
background
is
in
transactional
work
and
prior
to
that
I
served
as
the
assistant
City
attorney
for
the
City
of
Atlanta,
where
I
think
for
my
legal
experience,
I
really
cut
my
teeth
and
I
grew
as
an
attorney
at
the
city
of
Atlanta.
We
were
exposed
to
obviously
many
aspects
of
government
law
which
you
know
as
a
Young
attorney.
R
You
really
see
the
interworkings
of
how
the
city
basically
functions
and
in
that
role
I
primarily
worked
with
the
finance
department.
With
respect
to
you
know,
the
bond
issuance
the
city
of
Atlanta
is
one
of
the
I
would
say
most
active
jurisdictions
in
the
United
States
that
issues
tax,
exem
financing.
R
R
I
also
have
a
lot
of
desire
and
interest
to
you
know
continue
my
work
with
infrastructure
projects.
I
really
had
the
chance
to
see
how
much
it
benefits
communities,
I.
Think
right
before
I
left
the
city
of
Atlanta,
we
had
issued
about
1.2
million
dollars
of
public
financing
to
do
horizontal
and
vertical
improvements
to
infrastructure.
R
That
meant
so
much
when
you
go
to
the
town
hall
meetings
and
you
can
see
how
it
helps
folks
that
they
don't
have
access
to
public
transport,
but
with
the
projects
that
we
were
going
to
Institute,
it
really
did
make
a
difference
in
changing
their
lives
and
that's
why
this
opportunity.
It
really
spoke
to
us
as
a
firm,
because
we
really
want
to
continue
or
I
want
to
continue
my
service
in
that
realm.
R
I
also
serve
on
some
boards,
part
of
board
member
of
the
Florida
Lawrence
Mutual
Insurance
Company
I'm,
also
a
board
member
of
the
Florida
Bar
Association
tax
certification
committee
and
as
part
of
interest
to
me,
my
mother.
She
passed
away
from
cancer
and
I
serve
on
the
board
of
the
Orlando
Sports
foundation,
and
that's
some
of
the
things
that
are
very
important
to
me
in
giving
back
so
I
just
want
to
thank
you
again
just
for
the
time
to
introduce
myself
to
you
and
right
now,
I'll
pass
it
on
to
Mary
Norbert.
Thank
you.
C
Yes
much
better.
Okay,
sorry
about
that.
So
my
name
is
Mary
Norberg
I'm,
an
attorney
at
wall,
Grant,
Law,
Firm,
I
focus
primarily
on
litigation
in
local
government
work.
I
also
serve
as
the
assistant
and
town
attorney
for
the
town
of
Pearson,
along
with
Christian
and
I.
Am
the
Planning
and
Zoning
Board
attorney
for
the
town
of
Hilliard,
as
well
so
I'm
familiar
with
drafting
ordinances
and
resolutions
on
behalf
of
municipalities
and
I've,
been
active
in
drafting
their
codes
as
well.
C
Just
as
some
more
background
of
myself,
I
graduated
from
the
University
of
Central
Florida
in
Orlando
and
I
attended
law
school
in
St
Petersburg.
My
family
is
in
the
Clearwater
area,
so
I'm
over
here
often
visiting
this
whole
area
means
a
lot
to
me.
So
it
would
be
very
special
to
have
the
opportunity
to
work
with
you
all
and
outside
of
that
I
am
a
member
of
the
Orange
County
Bar
Association
and
the
Federal
Bar
Association
as
well
turn
it
back
to
Christian.
Q
And
so
in
the
presentation
I
had
actually
included
some
videos
that
I'm
not
going
to
go
into,
because
this
is
the
special
counsel,
presentation
and
frankly,
who
wants
to
see
me
on
video?
But
what
is
relevant
for
this
conversation
is.
The
special
I
would
call
it
a
special
counsel
investigation.
We
did
in
Callahan
Florida
recently
I'll
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
that
before
my
wife
had
her.
Our
child.
Q
We
did
one
last
vacation
and
we
were
in
Hawaii
is
where
she
wanted
to
go
and
we
were
driving
along
and
I
get
a
call
from
the
town
manager
of
Callahan
Florida,
and
he
says
we
have
a
problem,
so
I
pull
over.
That's
something
we
do
too.
We
always
want
to
be
accessible
at
all
times
of
the
day,
wherever
we
are.
If
we're
on
vacation
for
you,
because
it's
the
public
and
he
said
we
have
a
problem
and
what
he
said
was.
Q
It
appears
that
someone
in
town
hall
was
trying
to
set
up
the
mayor
and
spread
rumors
about
the
mayor,
committing
crimes,
let's
say,
and
that
seemed
very
vague
and
ominous.
So
you
know
we
had
a
longer
conversation
and
he
said
I
think
the
Town
Council
is
going
to
vote
to
have
you
do
an
investigation
and
see
what
happened?
The
Town
Council
did
that
I
accepted
it
and
we
had
multiple
attorneys
in
our
office
work
and
over
a
period
of
about
a
month
do
an
investigation.
Q
Callahan
is
much
smaller
than
Tarpon
Springs,
it's
a
city
of
about
2,
000
people
and
only
about
six
work
in
town
hall.
So
the
list
of
potential
Witnesses
was
not
dramatic,
but
what
was
interesting
is
it
didn't
go
the
way
that
I
thought
it
would
go?
In
other
words,
you've
already
talked
about
the
scope
of
work.
Originally
the
scope
of
work
related
to
just
discovering
information
about
what
happened
in
town
hall.
Q
One
thing
that
I
think
is
relevant
about:
that
is,
for
the
purposes
of
us
doing
an
investigation.
We
don't
start
from
a
blank
Slade.
We
start
from
a
theory
of
what's
going
on
and
in
order
to
establish
what
that
theory
is.
We
do
have
to
talk
to
somebody,
you
and
we
would
figure
out
who
else,
but
we
start
with
a
direction
and
we
see
where
it
goes.
Q
Ultimately,
what
we
found
in
the
investigation
was
that
the
town
clerk
herself
had
instructed
Town
employees
to
unplug
cameras
so
that
they
would
not
record
certain
things
and
show
that
she
was
the
one
who
planted
information
about
the
mayor,
and
there
were
some
other
things
that
came
out.
We
issued
a
detailed
report
that
explained
that
I
put
excerpts
here
on
and
I
can
make
available
to
you,
but
essentially
there
were
potentially
criminal
violations.
Q
Q
Q
Our
insurance
satisfies
your
requirements,
we're
5
million
per
claim.
We
think
that's
important,
no
matter
what
you
do
and
we
have
a
philosophy.
You
know
we
treat
cities
differently
than
we
treat
other
clients
in
that
we
have
to
work
hard.
We
just
we
have
to
make
sure
that
the
public
is
served.
We
have
to
make
sure
this
is
why
sometimes
when
individual
City,
Council,
Members
or
city
commission
members
are
sued,
sometimes
you
can't
have
the
City
attorney
represent
them,
because
there's
the
city
doesn't
have
an
interest
in
defending
potentially
illegal
Behavior.
Q
That's
a
whole
other
issue.
If
I'm
reading
the
news
correctly
about
what's
going
on,
but
we
want
to
we
pride
ourselves
on
giving
you
clear
answers.
We
pride
ourselves
on
working
over
the
weekend
to
get
you
fast
answers.
We're
not
going
to
do
it
in
a
way
that
sacrifices
the
quality,
but
we
also
we.
We
think
that
we
have
very
good
rates.
We
think
we
have
competitive
rates
for
across
the
state
at
our
hourly
rate
that
we're
willing
to
work
at
I've
already
talked
about
that
and
we
respect
deadlines.
Q
We
want
to
work
with
you
on
deadlines
and,
ultimately,
I
agree
with
the
analysis
of
Croton
fields
which,
by
the
way,
be
well
served
by
I.
Think
all
the
applicants
tonight
for
all
the
positions
you
are
the
boss.
So
we
respect
that.
We
understand
that
we
have
experience
doing
it.
We
do
not
bill
for
our
travel
to
us,
that's
something
you
just!
We
can't
do
with
a
public
entity,
we
don't
charge
with
for
paralegals
and
we
do
not
double
bill.
Q
So
if
we
have
two
lawyers
sitting
in
on
an
interview
you're
only
being
billed
for
one
I
want
to
thank
you
for
having
us
and
wish
you
luck
in
your
decisions.
I
I
think
they
may
be
difficult
at
times
and
we'd
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
answer
any
questions.
You
have
well.
A
E
Who
who's
on
your
staff
that
has
like
expertise
in
lane
use?
I
am
you
are
okay,
I'm.
Q
E
So
how
many
investigations
would
you
say
that
your
your
team
here
has
done
like
an
internal
investigation,
one
one?
Okay,
anybody
else
on
your
team
that
does
land
use
other
than
you
yeah,.
Q
Q
H
E
And
how
does
that
work
like
being
in
Orlando
and
we
in
Tarpon
Springs
and
you
have
clients
kind
of
scattered
all
out
throughout
the
state?
How
do
you
manage
that
I.
Q
Think
that's
a
good
question
and
a
fair
concern.
Hilliard
is
three
hours
away
from
our
office
and
we're
there
at
least
four
times
a
month.
It
is
something
that
I
mean.
I'll,
be
honest.
This
is
the
work
we
like.
This
is
the
important
work
for
us.
This
is
what
we
want
to
do
and
could
we
get
a
higher
hourly
rate
serving
a
client
in
Orlando
or
working
for
a
developer?
Yes,
but
nothing
beats
working
for
cities
so
the
way
it
works
is
we've
done
it
before
and
we
can
do
it
again
sure.
O
Thank
you
mayor.
How
long
do
you
expect
or
think
this
situation
would
go
on
from
what
you
know.
O
You
spoke
about
having
a
lot
of
work
in
the
hurricane
area.
How
much
time
do
you
devote
now
to
that?
Would
you
also
then
have
the
time
to
devote
to
this,
because
this
is
something
that
I
know.
Life
and
limb
is
comes
first.
So
how
do
you
make
that
choice.
Q
So
we
actually
have
several
staff
at
the
law
firm
as
well,
and
what
I
do
for
that?
Fema
project
is
I
oversee
the
process
to
make
sure
it's
working.
So
we
have
folks,
including
my
wife,
who
was
a
real
estate
paralegal
working
to
negotiate
these
easements.
The
time
that
I
actually
spend
on
it
is
fairly
minimal.
I
would
not
have
put
all
these
bids
in
if
I
didn't,
think
I
could
spend
the
time
and
devote
it.
You
Gerard
and
his
experience
in
Atlanta
knows
this
as
well.
Q
Don't
think
I've
had
an
Apples
to
Apples
investigation,
the
the
only
other
special
counsel
investigation
we
had
is
the
one
I
told
you
about,
but
I
do
think
that
we
know
enough
about
how
to
conduct
an
investigation.
I
candidly
do
not
believe
that
it's
extremely
complex
I
do
think
that
there
are
going
to
be
I.
Think
finding
the
truth
is.
Q
You
know.
It's
also
been
said
at
this
meeting
that
we
need
I.
Think
as
you
mayor
who
said
that
lawyers
you're
not
lawyers,
so
to
speak,
and
it's
needed
to
have
some
legal
counsel
and
I
often
find
that
conversations
with
non-lawyers
is
very
useful
because
you
haven't
had
the
common
sense
beat
Out
of
You
by
law
school.
We
have
it's,
it's
useful,
I
I
mean
I,
think
we
can
add
value,
but
I
think
this
can
be
done
so.
O
O
Q
Ask
you
what
you
think
happened
and
I'd
ask
you
what
other
fact
Witnesses
do.
Who
do
you
think,
has
any
information
about
the
situation.
What
are
their
names,
and
why
do
you
know
that
and
I
would
want
to
know
what
you
think
they
know
and
I
talked
about
targeting
earlier
that
you
don't
just
proceed
with
a
blank
slate,
so
I
think
I
would
start
with
a
theory
of
the
case,
a
theory
of
what
happened
and
I.
Q
Don't
want
to
go
straight
to
a
potential
Target
I
want
to
build
up
to
it
and
you
probably
have
noticed.
That's
that's
what
the
Department
of
Justice
has
done
in
some
high
publicity
investigations
that
are
going
on
right
now
for
Better
or
For
Worse,
but
you
work
around
it
and
then
you
come
to
the
Crux
of
it,
and
maybe
you
learn
something.
That
means
you
go
back,
but
that's
the
best
answer.
I
can
give
you
right
now.
L
Yes,
Mr
Walton
I
want
to
ask
you
about
one
experience
that
was
from
2017
to
present,
and
that
is
a
special
Master
for
the
Citrus
County
Florida.
Can
you
describe
what
you
did
there
and
yeah
and
talking
about
you
know,
potential
hearings
with
the
regarding
violations
of
zoning.
Q
Sure
and
I
I
have
a
video,
which
is
an
excerpt
of
that
that
I
was
going
to
show
you
later
on,
but
in
telling
you
about
it.
So,
since
2017
I've
presided
over
the
Code
Compliance
hearings
in
Citrus
County,
when
someone
is
issued
a
notice
of
violation
for
something
that
it
doesn't
comport
with
the
Zoning,
for
example,
if
it's
a
vacant
residential
lot,
you're
not
allowed
to
have
an
accessory
use
on
that
lot
until
you
build
the
house,
so
sometimes
people
just
want
to
use
their
land
for
storage.
Q
You
can't
do
it
unless
the
house
is
there.
So
what
will
happen
is
if
they
don't
fix
it
within
a
certain
amount
of
time.
The
code
compliance
officer
will
issue
a
notice
of
violation
and
say
you
have
to
appear
in
front
of
Christian
law
on
the
third
Wednesday
of
such
and
such
month
they
come
in
the
county,
presents
its
case.
I
give
the
respondent
an
opportunity
to
be
heard.
They
have
a
due
process
right
to
introduce
what
they
need
and
then
I
make
a
decision.
L
Okay
and
for
your
colleague
who
helps
draft
the
land
ordinance
changes
up.
L
L
Q
Q
If
we
also
have
to
tell
you
sometimes
we
may
have
to
tell
you
things
you
don't
want
to
hear
you
know
you,
you
may
want
to
do
something
that
we
think
violates
your
comp
plan
or
or
something
else.
Well,
we
have
to
tell
you
what
we
think.
Sometimes
it's
an
odds
question.
Sometimes
the
the
law
may
not
be
clear,
for
example,
there's
situations
where
the
city
might
tell
a
landowner
that
they
can
do
something
with
their
property.
That
landowner
spends
money
on
that
thing
and
then
the
city
finds
out
later
whoops.
Q
We
shouldn't
have
told
them
they
could
do
that.
So
sometimes
in
that
fact
pattern
the
landowner
has
a
right
to
sue
the
city
to
keep
doing
what
it's
doing,
because
they
had
a
right
to
rely
on
it.
Okay
and
sometimes
there's
situations
where
City
can't
be
forced
to
violate
its
laws
and
they
can
revoke
a
permit
or
something
like
that
bottom
line
is,
we
have
to
tell
you
frail
or
or
not
what
the
law
is
and
in
terms
of
disclosures,
I
mean
there
was
a.
Q
There
was
an
issue
in
Ocala
recently,
where
the
state
attorney's
office,
which
again
I
worked
in
I,
think
they're
an
amazing
Law
Firm,
but
they
weren't
disclosing
their
relationships
with
some
of
the
developers
to
the
city
council.
In
other
words,
they
wouldn't
represent
the
developers
in
front
of
the
city
council.
They
weren't
doing
anything.
That
was
an
explicit
conflict,
but
they
weren't
disclosing
their
history
with
those
entities.
L
Okay
and
seeing
that
where
it
was
two
firms
that
applied
for
their
special
counsel
and
one
is
a
national
firm
and
you
guys
are
growing
it,
and
can
you
shoot
us
a
final
pitch
on
why
we
should
go
with
your
firm
well.
Q
We
care
I,
mean
and
I.
Think
Carlton
Fields
is
great,
I
have
nothing
bad
to
say
about
them.
I
think
you're
going
to
be
well
served
like
I
said
by
any
of
them,
but
we
we
care.
We
are
only
local.
We
do
not
have
our
eyes
anywhere
else.
We
don't
have
billing
targets.
We
have
very
reasonable
and
competitive
hourly
rates.
That
I
think
makes
sense
for
the
taxpayer
and
I
think
that's
one
of
our
strongest
advantages.
A
Mr
wall,
the
the
appro
I've
got
a
little
bit
of
experience
and
Analysis
and
things
I
I'm
kind
of
interested
in
your
your
targeting
approach,
not
starting
with
a
blank
sheet
of
paper
and
I.
Think.
The
situation
that
we
have
is
somewhat
very
Broad
and
very
deep
and
it's
multifaceted
and
it
goes
to
a
variety
of
levels
from
I
would
say:
middle
level,
staff
all
the
way
up
to
Charter
officials,
including
City
commissioners
and
things
and
I,
think
it
would
be
hard
to
try
and
say:
okay.
A
This
is
the
Target
and
I
know
what
you
mean
by
Target,
not
an
individual
but
basically
kind
of
the
the
the
end
result.
As
far
as
and
and
it's
kind
of
like
the
scientific
method,
you
you
hypothesize
test
the
hypothesis
and
then
you
know,
you
see
whether
it's
valid.
A
Okay
and
I,
and
and
also
in
in
addition
to
the
number
of
individuals,
it's
a
very
voluminous
kind
of
audit
Trail
in
terms
of
documentation
and
things
and
and
and
I,
also
strongly
believe
that
the
700
emails
that
have
been
mentioned
is
I,
won't,
say
it's
the
tip
of
the
iceberg,
but
there's
a
great
deal
of
additional
information
that,
for
a
variety
of
the
way
our
system
is
set
up,
has
not
even
been
tapped.
A
So
that
may
tell
the
story
and-
and
the
end
result
of
this
special
counsel
is
to
provide
something
fundamental
convincing,
so
that
there's
no
question
later,
that
this
commission
didn't
do
its
job
if
it
finds
something
as
I
said
fine
if
it
does
find
some
if
it
doesn't
find
anything
to
me,
that's
great
too,
because
we
can
get
back
to
what
we're
supposed
to
be
doing
rather
than
this
major
distraction.
A
And
do
you
I
mean
your
your
approach
to
try
I
understand
the
incident
with
the
mayor
and
the
rumors
I
mean
here
spreading
rumors
about
them.
Here
is
kind
of
an
everyday
occurrence.
I,
don't
think,
there's
any
concern
about
that.
Q
A
Q
Do
I
think
it's
the
best
approach,
I,
don't
think
it's
the
only
approach,
but
I
think
it's
the
best
approach.
I
think
it
works
for
law
enforcement
and
it
would
work
for
us,
okay
and
then
I'll
actually
mayor
to
that
point,
I
mean
I.
Take
the
the
volume
of
data
seriously.
To
give
you
an
example,
in
March
we
prepared
in
federal
court
for
a
trial
against
a
major
multinational
corporation
Windham,
and
they
had
25
000
exhibits,
many
of
which
weren't
really
disclosed
ahead
of
time.
Q
Q
A
A
A
A
May
be
right
right,
I,
understand,
okay,
thank
you,
Miss
minutius,
Mr
wall.
Thank
you
very
much
and
for
your
team
being
here
this
evening,
what
we're
going
to
do
is
go
to
public
comments.
So
if
you
can
kind
of
Stand
by
there
may
be
some
additional
questions
that
the
public
may
have
for
you.
Are
there
any
public
comments
this
evening.
A
A
I
So
you
know
in
my
civilian
life,
I
am
a
forensic
accountant,
so
I
hold
a
the
designation
of
Master
analysts
in
forensics,
Financial
forensics,
so
I
get
hired
to
do
expert
witness
testimony
and
like
Mr
Schwartz
was
saying
you
know
he
used
he.
He
mentioned
the
word
scope
several
times
right
and
that's
critical.
When
we
get
hired,
we
want
first
and
foremost
you
guys
have
to
narrow
the
scope.
You
don't
just
say,
hey
we're
hiring!
You
go
investigate
you,
you
tell
them
what
your
you
know.
I
I
I
Why
am
I
doing
this
and
where
you're
going
so
it's
important
that
you
guys
Define
the
scope
which
is
kind
of
the
lane
they're
going
to
go
because
they
can
go
anywhere
and
then
you
want
to
talk
about
money,
you're
going
to
spend
a
lot
of
money,
they
start
going
all
over
the
place.
Now
the
scope
may
lead
somewhere
else,
but
I
in
my
case,
I
would
tell
the
client,
hey
I,
know
you
guys
hired
me
to
do
this,
but
I
saw
this.
I
Do
you
want
me
to
go
down
that
lane
too,
and
so
it's
important
the
clients
tell
us
things
and
they
may
have
you
know
when
you
say
the
word
boss,
their
boss,
my
boss
is
is
professionalism,
it's
not
you.
You
might
hire
me,
but
you're,
not
my
boss,
because
a
boss
is
going
to
tell
me
what
to
do.
You're,
not
going
to
tell
me
what
to
do.
I
You're
going
to
tell
me
where
you
want,
where
you
want
me
to
do
my
work,
but
my
professionalism
is
my
boss:
okay,
because
I
may
not
find
something
the
way
you
want
it
found
and
that's
just
the
way
it
goes.
You
have
to
live
with
it,
it's
important
that
we
have
Independence
and
the
independence
is
I.
Think
and
I've
had
this
conversation
with
people
about
I
believe
we
should.
We
have
three
different
needs
for
an
attorney.
I
Those
should
be
three
separate
law
firms,
because
we
it
obviously
the
investigator
just
like
Mr
Schwartz
said,
should
not
be
doing
litigation.
He
should
have
no
motivation
or
no
or
have
no
appearance
of
motivation
to
take
something
down
and
where
he's
going
to
make
money
or
his
firms
are
going
to
make
money
on
a
litigation.
I
I
They
shouldn't
be
the
ones
profiting
from
that
and
again
I
know
they're
professional,
but
they
shouldn't
even
have
that
appearance
of
motivation
and
I
believe
that
you
guys
need
to
stay.
There
should
be
three
hires
tonight
and
again
it
should
be
the
three:
it
should
be:
litigation,
City
representation
and
the
special
counsel.
They
should
be
all
separate.
I,
really
believe
that
that's
critical
and
then
you
will
have
look
at
the
situation
you're
in
the
City
attorney
quits
and
now
you
have
you
got
now.
I
A
Thank
you,
Mr
kubernetes
yeah,
for
for
everybody's
benefit.
There
is
going
to
be
three
separate
law
firms,
one
for
each
category,
so
Mr
Gattis.
J
J
Again
back
in
2009
Pinellas
County
fitted
town
with
with
reclaimed
water
inadvertently,
the
residents
were
filled,
were
waylaid
into
filling
out
a
variance
application
of
such
that
variance
allows
development
rights
upon
the
Residential
Properties
and
to
my
understanding,
these
development
rights
will
be
conducted
by
Third
parties,
which
will
be
granted
rights
to,
in
effect,
a
place
sort
of
like
a
mechanics,
lien
or
a
mechanics
hold
on
the
Residential
Properties,
essentially
establishing
charges
against
the
equity
in
our
home.
Should
we
not
have
The
Upfront
cash
to
pay
for
the
re-plumbing.
J
To
pay
for
the
re-plumbing
of
our
of
our
homes
to
include
reclaimed
water
for
laundry
and
toilet
use,
as
written
in
House
Bill,
639,
By,
Dana
young
and
such
things
as
underground
water
vaults,
to
be
placed
underneath
our
driveways
to
pump
storm
water
in
in
light
of
a
a
water
issue.
That
I
believe
was
legislatively
contrived.
J
I.
Believe
some
of
these
issues
conflict
with
my
rights
as
a
civilian
from
the
special
acts
of
1953.
I
I,
think
that
these
rights
that
I've
been
given
in
regards
to
delegated
law
and
this
imposition
that
legislation
has
placed
upon
the
civilian
population
I
I
found
in
the
statute
163.3167.
Some
of
this
dictation.
J
A
Right,
thank
you.
Mr
Geddes.
Our
comments
this
evening
are
reserved
for
specific
for
the
attorneys,
if
we
not
on
any
item
but
specific
to
the
the
purpose
of
this
evening,
of
hiring
an
attorney
for
the
various
categories.
So
I
just
wanted
to
point
that
out,
if
you
in,
if
any,
if
you
have
a
desire
to
say
anything
else
this
evening,
if
you
could
keep
your
comments
specific
to
the
attorneys
for
their
purpose
of
being
here,
this.
S
S
And
from
my
experience
and
from
the
comments
made
by
our
director,
Roger
Stewart
Carlton
Fields
was
a
premier
organization
and
he
said
whenever
they
came.
One
of
the
things
you
didn't
have
to
worry
about
is
you
could
always
trust
them.
They
always
told
you
the
truth
and
they
represented
their
clients
very,
very
well.
Thank.
F
Imperial
acts
514
Ashland
Avenue,
a
couple
of
things.
It
was
stated
by
Mr
wah
that
they
don't
bill
for
two,
but
Mr
Schwartz
had
said
they.
They
work
as
a
team
of
two
and
they
do
interviews.
So
my
guess,
my
specific
question
to
him
at
one
point
would
be:
do
you
Bill
for
both
attorneys
or
do
you
bill
for
the
highest
paid
highest
billed
attorney
of
that
now?
F
F
F
So
my
question
would
be,
and
as
it
was
pointed
out
in
one
of
the
mayor's
memos
I
forgive
it
was
October
5th
or
the
September
one
about
filings
of
you
know
your
excusing
yourself
or
your
financial
f1s,
I
I,
don't
I'm!
Sorry,
I,
forget
the
numbers
like
conflicts
and
what
was
reported
so
my
question,
I
guess
to
both
firms
would
be.
How
do
you
get
to
the
bottom
of
financial
Shenanigans
if
they
are
there?
If
you
don't
have
subpoena
power,
deposition
power.
F
Also,
when
you're
doing
your
exams
and
or
investigations,
how
do
you
judge
between
ethics
violations
and
legal
violations,
whether
they're,
civil
or
Criminal
or
ethical,
because
we
have
in
this
potential
investigation?
Quite
a
few
ethical
violations
may
not
be
legal.
We're
not
attorneys
I,
have
to
admit.
I
was
on
that
board
from
2004
to
2010.
I
was
here
when
the
Walmart
came
and
I
have
an
interest.
I
have
to
admit
that
the
board
knows
that,
because
I'm
one
of
the
litigants,
what
I'm
asking
for
is
a
fair,
honest
approach.
F
Changes
in
the
condition
we
use
language
development
agreement
changes
and
there
was
already
a
whole
meeting.
Commissioner
Eisner
read
stuff,
but
there's
more
in
those
emails
about
how
our
clothes
were
changed
by
outside
developer
attorneys.
So
comes
to
my
I
guess
my
last
question
and
I
hate
to
quote
from
Mr
Von
site,
but
as
part
of
the
general
practice
he
provides
Council
to
facilitate
large-scale
commercial
transactions,
including
closings
contracts
and
taking
major
developments
from
the
ground.
To
reality
now
I
know
I've
read
this
but
I
know:
I've,
read
Carlton
Fields
website.
H
F
We
tried
to
get
traffic
analysis
Engineers.
We
tried
to
get
planners
geotechnical
people
to
help
us
and
why
didn't
they
developers
have
all
the
money
to
pay
you
guys
to
get
their
projects
through
so
I
guess.
My
last
question
is:
where
do
you
draw
your
boundary
between
Developers
and
citizens
rights
to
protect
their
cities?
Thank.
A
You
thank
you
Mr
delacas.
What
I'm
going
to
do
is
I'm
going
to
give
each
of
the
law
firms
a
couple
of
minutes.
I
want
to
say
five,
but
if
you
could
do
it
less
than
that,
I'll
start
with
Mr
wall.
If
you
could
respond
to
some
of
those
and
then
Mr
Schwartz,
if
you'd
like
to
follow
Mr
wall
it'll,
be
a
reverse
order
of
how
we
did
the
interviews.
Thank.
Q
You
mayor
and
I
think
I'm
going
to
try
and
go
in
reverse
order
on
the
questions,
because
I'm
not
exactly
I'll,
see
if
I
remember
them.
On
the
last
question,
I
think
the
point
is
well
taken,
we're
actually
in
a
lawsuit
right
now,
where
an
unnamed,
extremely
well-known
civil
engineering
firm
did
a
traffic
study
that
is
completely
biased,
caught
and
paid
for
by
a
developer,
I'm
very
sensitive.
To
that
all
I
can
say,
is
it's
one
thing
for
us
to
give
you
words?
Q
I
can
tell
you
that
we
have
no
developments,
no
development,
no
developer,
clients
with
projects
in
Pinellas
County
or
in
Tarpon
Springs.
So
if
there
was-
and
it
was
a
potential
conflict,
we
would
disclose
it.
That's
the
best
way
that
I
can
answer.
The
last
question
on
the
legal
versus
ethical
and
I
think
there
was
a
third
category
of
potential
wrongs:
Criminal
criminal,
civil,
ethical.
Q
There
is
a
difference.
It's
true
that
not
every
time
not
every
time.
Something
is
a
wrong
or
a
civil
trespass
that
it's
necessarily
a
criminal
or
vice
versa.
However,
the
rules
are
out
there.
I
mean
that
we
we
understand
what
the
rules
for
the
ethics
for
ethics
are
for
public
servants
and
for
attorneys.
All
I
can
say
is
we're
familiar
with
it.
We
know
how
to
research
it.
We
would
advise
accordingly
and
I.
Think
the
I
don't
remember.
The
first
question,
sir:
did
I
miss
something.
Q
F
N
Q
You're
right
and
even
but
even
with
subpoena
power,
we
may
not
get
the
entire
universe
of
information
and
people
Stonewall
sometimes.
So.
This
is
a
common
problem
for
investigators.
The
answer
is
I
can't
be
sure
you
know,
depending
on
what
we
find,
that
could
mean
that
there
are
uncertain
conclusions
or
gaps.
I
just
don't
know
until
it's
done.
M
So
I'll
try
to
address
the
questions
too.
They
may
be
a
little
bit
out
of
order,
but
I
think
there
was
a
first
question
about
the
about
ethics.
What
would
we
use
to
measure
ethics
I
think
was
one
of
the
questions
versus
violations
of
civil
civil
infractions
or
criminal
law,
and
so
I
think
where
we
would
start
in
this
case
would
be
with
chapter
112
of
the
Florida
Statutes,
which
governs
all
of
local
governments
and
then
what
we
don't
know.
M
M
You
know
we,
we
don't
know
where
this
investigation
would
lead.
There
could
be
violations
potential
civil
violations,
there
could
be
potential
criminal
violations
in
the
forms
of
Kickbacks
I,
no
idea
no
idea
at
all,
but
we
would
be
looking
at
all
of
these
things.
There
was
a
question
about
billing,
so
it
really
depends
on
on
how
you
set
up
a
bill.
I
think
I
mentioned
to
commissioner
Carr.
M
M
I
think
there
was
a
question
about
developers
and
you
know
look.
We
we
only
applied
for
the
special
counsel
position,
because
we
do
take
Independence
very
seriously.
We
and
we
it's
important
to
have
the
Integrity
when
you
do
these
these
investigations,
and
we
have
that.
So
we
are
a
big
firm.
We
do
represent
developers
in
other
situations
before
we
even
applied
for
this
job.
M
M
M
A
You,
okay,
I,
think
that
ends
this
category
and
what
we're
going
to
do
is
move
on
to,
and
thank
you
both
for
being
here
and
and
allowing
us
to
ask
you
questions
this
evening.
So
Mr
Schwartz
hang
on
a
second
Ms
Lewis
may
I.
Ask
you
a
question
please,
for
for
next
meet
next
meet
next
week's
meeting
as
far
as
the
selection,
would
you
recommend
that
the
firms
be
here
as
well
or
not?
That's.
A
Can
it'll
be
a
public
meeting
if
you'd
like
to
attend
I
I,
can't
I,
don't
know
what
the
format's
going
to
be
I
wasn't
sure
that
we
were
going
to
be
asking
additional
questions
or
anything,
and
then
the
other
thing
too
I
think
I
asked
the
city
manager
to
ask
you
today.
As
far
as
if
the
commission
has
any
questions
in
the
individual
Commissioners
has
any
questions
of
any
of
the
law
firms,
it's
fair
enough
to
give
them
a
call
this
week.
Is
that
correct?
Yes,.
A
M
A
You
all
right,
thank
you,
Mr
Schwartz,
all
right!
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
All
Ms
Lewis
we're
going
to
go
on
to
our
second
category.
Yes,.
B
A
B
Next
RFP
interviews
will
be
for
the
actual
City
Attorney
Services
itself,
so
that's
RFP,
230019-p-j-l.
B
A
Okay,
the
order
of
the
presentations
are
Saxon
Gilmore,
Caraway,
Eunice,
Salzman
Jensen
and
wall
Grant,
so
represented
from
Saxon
Gilmore.
T
T
You
we
primarily
do
governmental
work
like
you've.
Seen
from
our
we
don't
our
Council
Mr
Bureau
who's
here,
as
well
as
Miss
Stringer
Mr
Verda
is
city
is
City
attorney
for
three
cities.
He
would
be
in
a
secondary
role
here.
I
would
be
in
a
primary.
We
represent
a
number
of
public
housing
authorities
as
their
general
counsel.
Sometimes,
a
special
counsel
I
represent
HCC
Hillsborough
Community
College,
as
their
general
counsel,
recently
I've
taken
on
Early
Learning
Coalition
of
Hillsborough
County
as
their
general
counsel.
T
T
We
also
live
with
the
public
records
law
and
the
effects
of
public
records
law.
As
you
probably
know,
it's
become
kind
of
a
cottage
industry.
In
Florida
there
are
people
who
are
out
and
surreptitiously
make
public
records
requests
and
five
days
later,
they
pounce
on
you
with
a
lawsuit
and
you're
immediately
liable
in
that
case,
so
it's
very
important
for
us
to
train
our
clients
and
stay
on
top
of
it
and
then,
when
they
become
pray
to
some
of
these
people
represent
them
and
get
them
out
of
as
quickly
as
we
can.
T
T
A
Let's
go
to
questions
by
the
commission,
then.
D
Can
you
give
me
some
examples
of
your
litigation
experience
representing
Municipal
governments.
T
We've
done
a
lot
of
it,
the
last
one
that
I
finished
was
a
piece
of
construction
litigation
where
a
series
of
nine
apartment
buildings,
three
stories
have
been
built
incorrectly.
It's
and
water
got
in
and
severely
compromise
the
structures
we
had
to
sue
a
defunct
contractor
and,
on
the
eve
of
trial,
got
what
we
could
get
from
their
insurance
companies,
which
is
multiple
millions
of
dollars,
I'd
like
to
have
gotten
more,
but
that
was
the
situation
we
were
stuck
with.
Could.
T
Please
stop
sorry
yeah
right
now,
I'm
in
a
situation
with
one
of
our
clients,
where
the
contractor
was
completely
incompetent
and
probably
not
very
well
supervised.
We
are
in
the
process
of
making
a
claim
against
The
Surety
to
get
the
project
finished.
It's
become
a
little
more
complicated
because
unbeknownst
to
this
major
developer,
one
of
their
officers
had
guaranteed
this
performance
bond.
So
now
we're
in
a
negotiation
with
them
who
have
lots
of
money,
which
is
a
great
thing
and
the
capability
of
finishing
the
job
to
get
the
job
finished.
So.
D
Yeah
we
have
similar
situations.
Unfortunately,
does
much
of
your
litigation
experience
end
up
actually
in
court,
or
is
it
mostly
just
filing.
T
E
Your
firm
based
out
of
Tampa
Tampa,
okay,
how
does
travel
work?
We.
T
E
So
I
would
have
to
defer
to
some
of
the
city
staff,
but
you've
got
the
City
commissioners
or
city
commission.
You've
got
the
board
of
adjustment,
you
have
the
Planning
and
Zoning
Board.
You
have
code
enforcement
board.
Is
the
HPB
have
an
attorney
now
yeah
I
think
so?
Yes,
I,
don't
think
I
don't
know
of
any
other
boards
that
have
attorneys.
So
those
are
the
different
boards
that
meet
throughout
the
week
right.
All
of
them
are
at
night,
except
the
code
enforcement
board,
which
is
during
the
day
right
when.
G
E
G
Parker
City
attorney
I've
represented
the
and
I've
done
that
for
yeah,
a
Hiatus
for
a
period
of
time,
but
about
15
years
zolfo
springs
for
30
years
and
Bowling
Green
for
20
years
and
I
represent
the
the
city
of
San
Antonio
and
about
eight
to
ten
years
after
that,
I
also
consult
with
the
city
of
Frostproof.
T
The
rest
of
us
we
represent
mainly
housing
authorities.
Okay,
represent
off
the
top
of
my
head.
We
represent
Tarpon
Springs
Pinellas
County
St
Pete
Tampa
Housing
Authority
Lakeland,
over
30.
Deerfield
Beach,
Fort,
Walton,
Beach,
County.
E
A
lot
the
Housing
Authority
answers
my
question
on
that
one.
So
an
aspect
of
the
I
guess
cross.
So
when
you're
a
City
Attorney,
At,
One
City,
you
obviously
have
research
and
codes
and
things
along
those
lines.
Land
use
codes
and
things
in
that
aspect.
Do
you
feel
comfortable
sitting
in
a
closet,
judicial
hearing,
going
off
the
rules
and
procedures
and
giving
advice
based
on
state
statutes
and
other
things
along
those
lines?
Yes,.
G
In
fact,
a
lot
of
that
you
have
to
do,
you
know
shooting
from
the
hip,
but
the
with
regard
to
the
quasi-judicial
I've,
represented
variance
boards
and
and
code
enforcement
boards
and
I've
been.
Actually.
Both
of
us
are
special
magistrates
for
other
cities,
on
special
magistrate
for
Anna
Maria
and.
E
G
A
N
O
I
know
we
were
off
base
in
the
beginning,
speaking
about
litigation,
but
it
perked
up
in
my
head
how
many
litigation
cases
such
as
that
did
you
have
you
had
in
the
past
because
was
this
a
rarity
for
you.
T
I
have
done
a
lot.
I
have
done
a
little
of
a
lot
of
different
things.
Okay,
I
have
done
arbitrations
to
judgment
when
I
was
early
in
my
practice,
one
of
the
reasons
I
hate
arbitration
is
I
was
local
Council
for
a
New,
York
construction
law
firm,
and
we
had
an
arbitration
that
went
54
hearing
days
until
it
finally
just
collapsed.
Under
the
weight
of
fees,
I
can't
disclose
how
much
they
were,
but
I
can
say
the
plaintiff's
firm
got
paid
less
than
a
quarter
of
the
fees
they
charge
their
client,
their
client
recovers.
T
Don't
like
arbitrations,
it's
Ambush.
You
spend
a
lot
of
money
complying
with
the
law
getting
a
case
together.
The
way
it
should
go.
If
something
goes
sideways
you
have
you
have
an
appellate
remedy
arbitration.
You
don't
another
thing
that
will
beat
you
up
in
our
arbitration
is
the
fact
there's
very
little
discovery,
and
sometimes
the
thing
you
need
to
see
to
access
assess
the
case
shows
up
in
the
hearing.
You
don't
see
it
beforehand,
so
I
I
always
recommend
against
arbitration.
T
Now
it
was
a
construction
case.
I
know
I,
understand
that,
but
we
did
not
okay,
so
okay,
it
was.
There
was
no
structure,
it
was
ground
right.
T
Governmental
work
and
he
he
blew
the
cut
and
fill
balance
right.
It's
a
big
manufactured
project,
so
the
real
money
was
in
making
sure
that
the
cut
and
the
fill
balance.
So
you
weren't
buying
a
lot
of
dirt
or
Trucking
a
lot
of
dirt
out
and
on
a
project
the
size
of
this
one.
That
became
a
very
material
amount
of
money.
O
Have
you
had
as
much
experience
dealing
with
things
that
we've
been
dealing
with
of
lately?
Are
you
aware
of
anything
that
we've
been
dealing
with
lately
only.
T
To
patients
for
clients,
where
they've
needed
to
hire
a
special
counsel
to
investigate
something,
and
we
try
to
jump
on
it
as
quickly
as
possible.
When
that
happens
so
I,
don't
do
it
because
I
represent
the
entity.
We
get
somebody
hired
by
The
Entity,
but
somebody
a
professional
to
come
in,
and
these
are
usually
Personnel
matters
matters
and
get
an
independent
investigation.
T
O
O
L
I
I
know
this
is
a
City
Attorney,
Services
and
I
I
believe
the
question
was
asked,
but
I
just
want
to
take
it
a
step
further
with
litigation
from
start
to
finish,
trial
experience.
T
L
Okay,
I
see
a
I,
keep
seeing
a
lot
of
the
housing
authorities
in
which
you
all
represent,
and
you
may
need
to
help
me.
But
how
can
the
Housing
Authority
representation
relate
to
a
lot
of
the
City
Attorney
Services
that
we're
requesting
the.
T
The
most
clear-cut
way
is:
we
are
used
to
running
board
meetings,
as
the
lawyer
I
mean.
Obviously
you
run
the
board
meeting,
but
advising
the
commission
or
the
trustees
of
a
Housing
Authority
how
to
run
a
board
meeting.
That's
I
think
the
particular
value
we
also
have
the
mindset
of
representing
entities
as
their
general
counsel.
L
L
T
L
Okay,
and
can
you
describe
the
importance
of
the
home
rule
and
just
just
small
towns
and
and
I'm,
going
to
be
asking
every
firm
yeah
this
question,
so
the
importance
of
the
home
rule
to
our
municipal
government
and
looking
out
for
the
best
interests
of
the
people
that
live
within
Tarpon
Springs.
The.
H
L
A
Questions:
okay,
did
you
want
to
go
ahead
and
ask
your
questions?
I.
D
D
What
we
need
as
a
commission
is
a
proactive
Council
service.
We
need,
we
don't
really
I
mean
yes,
we
do
need
somebody
to
be
there
day
in
day
out
to
keep
us
on
this
sort
of
thing,
but
we
don't
need
rule
book
law
all
the
time.
What
we
need
is
somebody
to
say,
hey.
You
should
really
look
at
doing
it
this
way,
because
that's
the
better
way
or
if
you
go
in
this
direction,
you
could
be
in
trouble
prior
to
our
making
a
decision
and
being
in
trouble,
as
as
commissioner
reisler
said
so.
D
Just
want
to,
we
just
have
a
sense
that
we
want
an
attorney
service.
That's
somewhat
aggressive
in
that
matter,
because
it's
not
been
our
past
experience.
A
A
Mr
Caraway,
just
with
this
litigation
or
you
or
any
of
your
members
registered
with
the
Florida
League
of
cities
on
their
list
of
litigation,
attorneys
I,.
A
You
know
the
litigation
is,
is
some
aspect
of
it?
That's
low
priority
for
me
and
and
then
also
the
sort
of
routine
sort
of
things
that
City
attorneys
do
is
somewhat
not
that's
low
priority
I
mean
you're
you're.
You
do
City
work,
you're
expected
to
know
what
you're
doing
I
I.
Don't
have
any
doubt
on
that.
A
The
the
issues
that
I
have
and-
and
the
we
were
very
you
know,
I'm
a
very
structured
and
I'm,
a
former
PE
and
I'm
very
structured,
and
we
have
our
Charter
that
delineates
responsibilities
and
things
and
the
concern
I've
always
had
with
or
somebody
needs
to
be
mining
the
store
and
protecting
the
city
and
that's
the
concern.
A
I
have
in
a
variety
of
different
ways,
and
you
know
we've
got
the
we've
had
public
forum
Doctrine
issues
where
I
think
that
there's,
as
you
may
have
seen
tonight,
is
an
example
where
there's
maybe
intervention
a
little
prematurely
and
and
let
it
just
work
its
way
out
and
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
and
that's
not
happened
in
the
past
and
I,
and
the
people
actually
there's
a
reading
about
it.
A
In
the
paper,
there's
been
numerous
other
issues
that,
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
as
far
as
that
sort
of
a
problem,
the
residents
want
to
have
a
voice,
and
sometimes
it
seem
to
be
a
little
stifled
up
here.
So
those
are
the
sort
of
things
that
I
see
the
City
attorney
doing
is
to
kind
of
guide
us
I
would
say
and
I
think
that's,
maybe
where
the
proactive
aspect
is
coming
from
again.
I
said
this:
before
were
butchers,
Bakers
and
Candlestick
makers.
A
Government
laws,
constitutional
rights
are
extremely
complex,
I,
don't
know
I'm
I
do
my
homework
to
try
and
understand
them,
but
I,
don't
know,
and
sometimes
I
want
to
make
sure
that
our
city
is
is
actually
viewed
as
somewhat
sensitive
to
those
laws
and
I
and-
and
you
can't
do
that
by
just
letting
us
do
what
we
want
to
do
up
here
and
I,
I
and
I.
That
goes
with
education.
A
My
question
is:
how
do
you
view
that,
as
far
as
your
Law
Firm
goes
as
far
as
when
you
take
on
a
a
a
a
role
or
a
task
to
be
a
City
attorney?
Is
it
you're
under
contract,
but
there's
also
your
your
oath
as
an
attorney
to
protect
the
client
in
in
what
you
need
to
do,
and
if
you
don't
do
that,
obviously
your
your
Professional
Standards
of
conduct
come
into
play
and
how?
But
how
do
you
view
that
as
a
law
firm
philosophically.
T
We
do
our
best
to
take
care
of
our
clients
and,
if
you
were
to
call
me
up
and
ask
me
a
question
that
I
wasn't
100
sure
of
the
answer,
I
would
say:
I
will
call
you
back
and
I
would
make
sure
I
had
the
right
answer
for
you,
because
I
would
rather
tell
you
I
need
five
minutes
or
half
an
hour
to
look
it
up.
To
give
you
the
wrong
answer.
T
I
mean
that's.
That's
Our
obligation,
I've
seen
people,
lawyers
managed
to
get
themselves
from
the
front
page
of
the
paper
when
they
got
confronted
by
something
and
gave
an
off-the-cuff
answer
that
wasn't
correct.
I,
don't
want
to
get
embarrassed,
but
more
I
don't
want
to
steer
you
wrong.
That's
an
obligation.
We
owe
you
to
give
you
best
advice.
G
So,
in
the
30
years
that
I've
been
doing
this
I
mean
I've.
Taken
calls
at
any
all
hours
of
the
night
in
morning
are
taking
calls
on
the
weekends
I've
taken
calls
in
foreign
countries
and
I've
had
a
phone
conferences
with
the
city
and
and
in
Rome
at
a
pay
phone,
because
the
cell
phone
work
service
didn't
work
there.
G
These
are
all
things
that
you
know
we
feel
like
are
important,
because
you
need
to
have
that
assistance
right
away
and
and
same
thing
goes
forward
when
I,
when
I
learned
something
that
new
has
come
out
or
get
additional
information,
because
my
membership
in
the
Florida
Municipal
attorneys
Association
and
as
a
certified,
City,
County
and
local
government
attorney.
You
know
I
get
information
all
the
time
and
also
from
friends
of
mine
that
are
that
are
City
attorneys
for
other
cities.
G
I
pass
it
on
to
all
the
cities
in
an
email
blast
not
to
the
Commissioners
as
an
email
bash,
but
to
to
the
city
managers
and,
and
for
you
know
something
to
bring
up
on
the
next
at
the
next
City
commission
meeting.
So
we
keep
you
informed
proactively
to
make
sure
that
you're
aware
of
things
that
are
coming
up,
especially
ticking
bombs,
such
as
the
the
public
records
scenario
that
was
happening
where
they
were
going
after
everybody
and
and
there's
been
others
as
well,
that
become
become
a
problem.
G
So
if
you,
you
know,
if
you
you
want
proactive,
that's
definitely
something
that
we
do
as
City
attorneys.
A
Thank
you,
I
I
think
you
know,
I
don't
have
an
issue
with
somebody
telling
me
I,
don't
know
I
mean
when
I
was
an
engineer
in
practice.
I
did
that
all
the
time
I
wasn't
gonna,
you
know
if
they
asked
me
what
size
beam
do
you
need
do
I
need
I
if
I
didn't
know,
I
didn't
I
didn't
know
and
and
and
the
same
thing
goes
with
just
doing
a
little
research
and
getting
back
to
us
as
well.
There's
no
problem
with
that.
Well,.
G
Oh
sure,
absolutely
there
are
some
things
that,
but
there
are
some
things
as
a
City
attorney
that
you
need
to
know.
Otherwise
the
commission
can
get
itself
in
trouble
at
the
Deus
and
such
as
the
sunshine
act
and
public
records
act,
especially
the
sunshine
act.
You
know
can't
have
an
error
being
made
there
and
because
that
can
be
an
instantaneous
problem
and
but
there,
but.
C
G
Know
if
we
don't
know
the
answer,
then
certainly
it's
something
we'll
research
and
we'll
say
we
don't
know
I
bring
my
notebook
computer
with
me
and
and
often
I
can
say.
Well,
if
you
want
to
get
back
with
me
in
a
few
minutes,
I'll
have
it
that
answer
for
you
and
then
I,
look
at
upright
at
that
moment.
A
The
the
training
aspect
for
these
individuals
are
volunteer
board
members
and
things
I
I
think
that
we
need
to
have
a
little
more
of
a
formal
program
than
what
we've
had
in
the
past
as
far
as
training
and
and
understanding,
especially
in
the
as
you
said,
the
Sunshine
Law
Public
Records,
also
as
far
as
what
their
role
is
and
what
their
Authority
and
and
I
I.
G
G
Absolutely
whenever
there's
somebody
new
sworn
in
I've,
always
made
myself
available,
I,
don't
impose
myself
on
them.
I
say:
if
you
have
any
questions,
give
me
a
call.
You
have
my
they
have
my
number
you
can
reach
me.
I
teach
the
required
ethics
class
to
to
different
ones.
In
my
city,
I
just
taught
one
to
desolate
Springs
last
Saturday,
and
so
you
know
it's
it's
something
that
those
are
very
important
areas,
obviously
for
any
City
attorney
to
know.
A
L
I
just
want
to
follow
with
the
Merit
of
some
issues.
With
you
know,
prior
advice
was
just
yes
and
no
answers.
This
board
is
always
going
to
constantly
ask
why
and
ask
for
a
direction
to
be
led
somewhere
to
the
utmost
disclosure
as
possible
and
I
would
ask
whoever
is
selected.
Please
review
the
annual
reviews,
basically
with
our
our
City
attorney
from
this
past
year,
just
to
get
you
up
to
speed
on
what's
to
be
expected
in
the
future
and
that's
for
everyone
applying
for
the
City
Attorney
Services
tonight.
A
Right,
I
I
agree
with
that
in
the
sense
that
yes
and
no
you
you're
putting.
H
A
Got
some
very
inquisitive
people
up
here?
Why
is
it
yes,
and
why
is
it
no,
that
sort
of
thing
not
just
yes
or
no
and
there's
always
a
little
caveat
to
that
too-
that
we
need
to
understand
as
well.
So
are
there
any
other
questions
from
the
commission.
D
I
have
one
and
it's
it's
more
to
do
with
scheduling
if
you're
selected
is
there
an
issue
with
you
being
able
to
sit
on
our
boards
at
the
time
that
they
meet
or
do
we
have
to
readjust
a
board's
meeting
times.
A
I,
don't
know
if
anyone's
gone
over
that
with
you,
we
meet
the
second
and
fourth
Tuesdays
of
each
month
and
and
and
then
of
course,
the
the
schedule
for
the
other
boards
is
is
important
too
I.
T
G
It
does
conflict
with
what
one
of
my
cities
you'll.
G
So
he'll
be
our
special
means
and
things
like
that
and
you
know
I
well,
they
have
a
special
meeting
coming
Friday
from
some
because
the
city
manager
suddenly
quit
in
one
of
my
cities.
So
all
of
a
sudden
we
have
a
meeting
on
Friday
and
so
that's
you
know
I
go
to
that
meeting
as
well.
So
whenever
there's
meetings,
we've
tried
to
make
them
and
I
I
can
say
that
I
haven't
missed
more
than
one
on
one
hand
in
30
years.
Okay,.
A
T
The
one
comment
I
wanted
to
make
when
you
were
talking
about
more
than
just
a
yes
or
no
I,
think
the
answer
is
more
persuasive.
If
you
explain
why
it's
yes
or
no
without
people
will
internalize
it
better.
They'll
understand
it's
not
just
some
off
the
cuff
answer.
Sunshine
is
is
an
obvious
example.
You
really
want
people
to
understand
what
they
can't
do.
So
it's
important
when
those
issues
come
up
to
explain
why
they
can't.
T
You
Mr
I,
did
hear
we
had
a
conversation
with
the
open
government,
lady
at
the
Attorney
General's
office
a
couple
weeks
ago
and
I-
don't
think
it's
happening
around
here,
but
she
told
me
that
state
attorneys
around
the
state
are
starting
to
prosecute
Sunshine
violations.
So
don't
know
how
much
that's
happening,
but
it's
worried
otherwise,
because
it
is
a
misdemeanor.
D
A
With
people
let's
go,
we
we
were
done
with
your
firm
and
then
our
next
firm
in
line.
Thank
you,
you're.
Welcome.
If
you
just
want
to
hang
out,
then
there
may
be
some
additional
questions.
U
U
So
that
was
my
first
introduction
to
meetings
and
I
learned
from
that
something
that
I've
carried
with
made
the
last
32
years
of
practicing
in
this
area,
and
that
is,
one
meetings
are
going
to
go
on
until
boards
and
the
public
have
had
an
opportunity
to
speak
and
vet
the
issues
and
also
that
I
try
to
eat
before
the
meetings.
Because
who
knows
how
long
they're
going
to
be
there
and
how
long
they're
going
to
go
since
that
time?
U
I
have
attended
and
served
as
City
attorney
or
general
counsel
for
hundreds
of
meetings,
commission
meetings,
code
enforcement
meetings,
Planning
and
Zoning
meetings,
Board
of
adjustment
meetings
and
that
that's
what
I
do
in
the
majority
of
my
practice,
I
also
litigate
and,
as
you
know,
because
you
hired
me
as
your
interim
litigation
attorney.
That's
what
my
firm
does
and
that's
what
my
background
is
and
we
litigate
all
types
of
issues.
U
I
mean
there's
pretty
much,
nothing
that
we
haven't
been
involved
in
and
we
represent
in
federal
court
State,
Court,
administrative
tribunals,
municipalities,
we're
attorneys
for
Pidgeot,
preferred
government
insurance
trusts,
so
we
handle
all
their
defense
work
currently,
for
example,
I'm
representing
the
city
of
Treasure
Island
and
a
zoning
Bert
Harris
case
I
just
represented
the
town
of
Indian
Shores
in
a
defamation
and
civil
rights
matter.
We
representing
the
city
of
Madeira,
Beach
and
sunshine
law
issue
have
represented
them
in
the
past
on
similar
issues.
U
So
all
those
aspects,
I'm
very
familiar
with
also
as
general
counsel
for
four
independent
fire
districts
I
have
a
strong
background
in
labor
and
employment
law.
That's
what
I
I
do
a
lot
of
collective
bargaining
I
deal
with
police
issues,
I
deal
with
employment
issues,
all
those
issues
all
day
long,
but,
as
you
know,
as
a
City
attorney
or
general
counsel,
you
have
different
issues
every
day
today,
I
think
I,
reviewed
two
contracts
tomorrow
be
drafting
a
contract.
U
We
deal
with
all
types
of
zoning
I
was
at
I,
wasn't
at
your
meeting
last
night
because
I'm,
the
first
and
third
Tuesdays
I'm
at
the
City
of
Gulfport,
where
I've
served
as
City
attorney
for
the
last
12
years.
So
I
was
there
also
this
morning
dealing
with
issues
on
some
code
violations,
subplating
and
Zoning.
So
we
we
cover
all
those
types
of
aspects
and
have
the
ability
to
deal
with
all
the
situations
that
will
come
before
you.
U
Frankly,
the
only
area
that
comes
before,
potentially
on
a
government
issue
that
we
don't
handle
is
bonds
because
that's
a
specialized
area
and
and
that's
one
thing,
my
firm
doesn't,
do
we
have
six
attorneys.
We
are
litigators
we're
in
the
courtroom
all
the
time.
That's
how
I
cut
my
teeth
as
a
state
attorney,
as
did
one
of
my
partners
to
your
Eunice
and
that
we've
been
in
Pinellas
or
Pasco
County
our
whole
careers.
U
So
this
is
my
36th
year
dealing
with
those
issues:
I
lecture
on
Sunshine,
Law,
Public,
Records
governance,
pretty
much
as
I
said
there
there's
very
little
that
you
could
have
that
I
haven't
seen
or
been
involved
in
so
I
think
our
firm
is
qualified.
You
have
had
one
of
my
associates
here
in
my
absence
and
again:
that's
because
you
have
conflicts
in
those
meeting
nights.
What
I
do
if
there
is
a
conflict
at
that
time.
Honestly,
what
I
look
at
is
your
agenda.
U
So
it's
me
who
I
try
to
be
the
person
there
I'm
used
to
going
to
the
Planning
and
Zoning
meetings,
Board
of
adjustment
meetings,
code
enforcement
board
meetings,
in
fact
I'm
here
with
the
code
enforcement
Board
of
Court
enforcement
tomorrow
for
you,
so
that's
I've
done
Clearwater
board
for
almost
30
years
as
being
the
board
attorney.
So
all
these
areas
that
you
deal
with
I
have
experience
in
doing
and
I'd
like
to
be
the
one
who
handles
all
those
matters,
because
it's
important
for
me
to
know.
U
What's
going
on
important
for
me
to
be
able
to
give
you
advice
on
how
to
handle
these
situations,
the
uniqueness
of
handling
both
litigation
and
representation.
Is
that
I
try
to
keep
you
out
of
litigation?
I!
Think
if
you
talk
to
the
city
manager,
the
commissioner
council
member
is
actually
at
Gulfport
you'll
find
that
that
is
what
I
I
emphasize
my
opinions.
U
Are
conservative,
I'll,
be
honest
with
you:
I
try
to
keep
you
out
of
trouble
and
if
I
have
advice,
it'll
be
more
on
the
side
of
not
having
you
do
something
that
I
think
is
questionable.
Of
course,
the
board
decides
what
they
want
to
do
ultimately,
and
that
that
is
your
decision,
but
I
will
give
you
the
advice
that
so
that
at
least
you
can
make
that
decision
and
I'm
here
to
answer
any
questions.
Okay,.
A
Mr
Salzman
I
want
to
ask
you
as
well.
Have
you
had
any
conversations
I
know
you
are
in
our
attorney
and
you've
been
under
contract
to
us
for
several
weeks
now.
I
believe,
just
as
a
guess
have
you
had
any
conversations
with
any
Commissioners
outside
of
this
RFP
process
and
and
the
the
interim
city
manager
role.
A
U
Would
probably
I
mean
it
could
be
Marianna?
It
could
be
another
associate
of
ours
Vanessa
who
has
covered
these
meetings?
I
would
tell
you
99
of
the
time.
It'll.
Be
me.
U
If
the
issues
are
more
important,
I
know
your
meetings
are,
are
pretty
extensive
at
least
now
some
of
the
items
that
you've
been
going
through
so
I
would
talk
to
both
city
managers
and
I
talked
to
the
Mayors
and
tell
them
ask
them
what's
more
important
for
me
to
be
there,
you
know,
being
a
City
attorney
is
more.
Obviously,
you
know
is
more
than
just
coming
to
the
meetings.
It's
making
sure
that
everybody's
prepared
for
what's
going
to
happen
at
those
meetings
and
meeting
with
the
individuals
to
make
sure
you're
prepared
for
that.
E
With
with
communication,
how
are
you
in
communication
I
can
tell
you
that
I'm
I'm
really
frustrated
with
you
as
an
individual,
representing
the
board
in
litigation,
because
there's
no
communication
to
our
board
the
fact
that
I
read
in
a
newspaper
about
a
pending
case
before
I
get
any
information
from
a
City
attorney
who's
representing
Us
in
litigation.
It's
got
to
be
one
of
the
most
frustrating
things
that
I've
been
a
part
of.
U
U
U
E
Know
it's
not
you
speaking
in
the
newspaper
but
I,
read
in
a
newspaper
about
a
pending
litigation
case
before
I
have
any
notice
from
the
attorney
who's
with
the
city's
paying
to
inform
us
about
the
pending
litigation.
That's
going
on
Etc!
As
you
know,
we
can't
talk
to
the
mayor
or
I
can't
talk
to
them
there,
because
that's
a
sunshine
issue.
So
how
am
I
supposed
to
get
information
from
our
City
attorney?
I.
U
E
U
U
A
That
that's
my
fault.
Let
me
just
stop
everybody
here:
I
want
to
intervene
a
little
bit,
I
read
the
same.
Article
and
I
asked
Mr
Salzman
about
it,
and
I
invited
him
to
send
a
memorandum.
He
sent
one
to
me
to
me
and
he
sent
one
to
the
city
manager.
City
manager
was
obviously
based
on
our
rules
of
procedure.
I
can't
communicate
with
you
even
by
memorandum,
except
through
the
city
manager.
Once
the
city
manager
got
back,
he
found
the
memorandum
I
guess
he
I,
based
on
your
your
request.
A
He
found
it
and
he
was
away
and
he
did
not
see
it
until
he
got
back
and
then
he
shared
it
with
you
and
the
rest
of
the
Commission.
A
In
all
fairness,
when
we
hired
Mr
Salzman,
it
was
very
clear
that
any
commissioner
could
call
him
and
ask
him
any
question
that
they
want,
and
so,
if
there's
a
question
of
reading
something
in
the
newspaper,
I
think
it's
incumbent
and
if
there's
a
concern
about
it
on
the
part
of
any
commissioner,
they
can
certainly
call
Mr
Salzman
and
ask
him
what
he
knows
and
I'm
sure
he
would
explain
that
so.
I
I'd
like
to
get
back
on
City,
Attorney,
Services
and
I
recognize.
A
E
U
Would
communicate
with
the
whole
board
I
would
ask
the
board
how
they
want
that
communication.
I
can
be
honest
with
you
that,
for
example,
in
the
City
of
Gulfport
I
send
everything
to
the
city
manager.
That's
what
the
commission
wants.
He
then
sends
that
on
to
the
commission
I'm
happy
to.
However,
however,
you
want
to
handle
it
when
I
deal
with
my
fire
boards.
It's
done
the
similar
way,
but
I
will
do
it.
However,
you
want
it.
E
Sure
and
I
understand
this
unique
situation
so
I'm.
E
To
you,
yeah
I,
just
what
I'm
saying
is
I
expect
to
to
receive
information
from
our
attorney
who's
representing
us
before
I
read
about
in
the
news,
is
what
I'm
getting
at
understood.
So
what
about
the
other
individual
other
attorneys
in
your
firm?
What
type
of
experience
do
they
have
I
know
we
had
an
individual
on
our
board.
She
seemed
very
nice,
didn't
seem
super
experienced
to
handle.
Maybe
some
of
our
meetings,
content.
U
She
doesn't
have
a
lot
of
experience.
She
has
had
a
couple
years
of
experience
of
going
to
those
meetings,
so
that
is,
we
I
have
another
attorney
that
has
more
experience,
and
one
of
my
partners
has
a
lot
of
experience.
Okay,.
H
U
U
O
U
O
I've
had
no
problem
calling
you
on
any
particular
case,
except
I,
have
not
spoken
to
you
on
anything
that
had
to
do
with
this
RFP
that
we
have,
but
since
it
was
brought
up,
and
only
for
the
reason
that
it
was
brought
up,
I
just
find
it
odd
that
commissioner,
would
bring
up
a
discussion
on
whether
this
letter
that
we've
all
seen
was.
O
L
Thank
you
mayor,
sir
I
see
that
you
have
your
your
list
of
three
Partners
or
shareholders.
I
was.
Can
you
answer
why
they
weren't
here,
maybe
today,
because
it
was
nice
to
see
some
of
the
other
firms
and
their
shareholders
and
or
people
that
would
be
handling
some
of
our
cases
in
person.
They.
U
They
would
probably
not
be
handling
your
cases,
we
they
are
both
litigators
and
they
would
be
handling
litigation,
although
government
litigation
is,
is
something
all
three
of
us
do
for
this
position.
They
wouldn't
be
here.
I
mean
I
would
have
them
here,
but
they
wouldn't
be
able
to
really
answer
too
many
questions,
because
that's
not
an
area
that
they
practice
in.
L
L
Sir,
your
firm
has
been
our
our
interim
City
League
City
Attorney
Services
firm
for
about
two
months
or
a
month
and
a
half
cents.
A
N
A
Think
maybe,
since
the
early
October.
L
U
One
of
your
meetings
was
moved
to
the
first
and
third
Tuesday
I
have
meetings
on
the
first
and
third
Tuesday,
okay,
so
second
and
fourth
Tuesday
of
no
problems,
but
when
I
was
first
asked
to
help
out
not
in
litigation
but
help
out
as
interim
City
attorney
to
extend
that
you
needed
somebody.
I
discussed
that
with
the
city
manager
that
I
couldn't
make
those
meetings,
because
you
had
moved
them
because
of
the
holidays.
Had
they
been
the
normal
dates.
I
absolutely
would
have
been
here.
L
Yes,
sir,
but
just
some
of
my
concerns
were,
is
you
know,
as.
C
L
Interim
firm,
you
have
a
shot.
You
got
a
shot,
no
one
really.
Nobody
else
really
has
because
you're
able
to
be
represented
for
us
for
about
six
to
seven
weeks
until
until
we
make
a
decision
and
I
sort
of
agree
with
commissioner
Carr
and
I
I
was
I
would
have
liked
to
see
you.
L
Maybe
at
one
of
the
meetings
and
I
mean
we
did
have
some
big
issues
come
up
with
land
use
and
stuff
that
and
I'm
your
your
colleague
did
a
great
job
just
you
know,
but
it
would
have
been
nice
to
see
someone
who
may
have
been
potentially
here
to
represent
us
at
90
of
the
meetings.
U
Well,
commissioner,
let
me
be
frank:
with
you
I
wasn't
you
didn't
hire
me
to
do
the
interim
City
attorney
that
was
just
asked
the
favor
you
hired
me
to
handle
the
litigation
so
that
so
that
we
understand
I
was
then
asked
to
say:
hey,
there's
a
gap
period
before
we
hired
the
City
attorney.
Can
you
help
us
out?
Can
you
have
somebody
and
I
said
well:
I
have
a
conflict
on
the
meeting
dates
that
were
given
to
me
so
I
initially
said:
I
can't
be
there.
I
can
send
somebody
if
you
need
it
but
I.
U
When
you
all
talk
to
me,
you
didn't
hire
me
to
be
the
interim.
City
attorney
I've
just
been
helping
you
in
going
through
contracts
and
giving
opinions
on
those
things
and
reviewing
documents,
but
that's
not
what
the
original
discussions
were.
They
were
to
handle
the
litigation,
so
frankly,
I
wasn't
hired
for
that.
It's
just
been
something
doing
to
help
the
city
out
so
I
from
day
one
I
said:
I
couldn't
be
on
on
the
two
meetings
that
you
had
because
I
had
conflicts,
so
I
think
I
was
pretty
straight
up
about
that.
U
L
The
the
month
of
November
December
was
was
special
with
the
with.
H
U
L
And
I'd
ask
this
question
to
the
the
previous
firm
but
the
importance
of
the
home
rule,
and
you
know
a
special
town
like
Tarpon
Springs.
How
is
important
of
that
role
to
be
used,
if
necessary,
to
protect
the
residents
in
its
best
interest
home.
U
Rule
is
the
most
important
thing
you
have
and
unfortunately
the
state
doesn't
seem
to
agree
with
that.
It's
been
very
frustrating
I
in
fact,
Gulfport
hired
a
lobbyist
to
try
to
work
on
that.
The
Florida
league
has
lobbyists
doing
that.
It's
horrible
honestly,
what
is
being
done
regarding
home
rule
and
to
the
extent
that
you
can
use
it
and
keep
it
and
get
it
back
to
where
it
used
to
be
that's
the
most
important
thing.
Otherwise,
it
doesn't
even
make
sense
to
happiness
of
polities.
Honestly.
L
A
You
yeah
I
I
was
going
to
say
if
any
Commissioners
need
to
understand,
Mr
salzman's,
current
role
and
responsibility
to
City
to
contact
the
city
manager,
he'll,
explain
everything.
As
far
as
remember
we,
we
asked
him
to
go
ahead
and
establish
the
interim
Services,
which
included
the
not
just
the
City
attorney,
but
also
to
take
over
the
attorney
that
was
doing
the
litigation
on
the
north
on
the
Anclote
Harbor
Apartment
project
and
that's
what
Mr
salzman's
been
doing
and
that
that's
the
the
article
that
commissioner
Carr
referenced,
that
was
in
the
paper.
A
Okay,
Mr,
Salzman,
I've
spoken
to
you
several
times
and
and
I
understand
kind
of
how
you
work
and
everything
as
a
as
an
interim
and
and
as
far
as
and
I.
Also
the
meetings
are
one
thing
and
but
again
it's
the
same
old
thing
that
I'm
getting
at
is
that
there
needs
to
be
a
little
more
of
an
integration
with
our
City
attorney
with
the
day-to-day
operation
of
the
city
government.
In
terms
of.
H
A
Monitoring
but
being
mindful
of
what's
going
on
to
kind
of
act
as
somewhat
of
a
a
safeguard
as
far
as
things
that
may
be
getting
a
little
too
far
in,
in
which
I
think
that
if
we
had
that
sort
of
thing
in
the
past,
someone
minding
the
store
I
think
we
in
communicating
those
things
I
think
we
would
be
better
off
and
I'm
just
would
you
be
able
to?
A
Obviously
that
takes
time,
and
that
would
be
part
of
your
contract.
It
would
be
for
any
City
Attorney
Services
that
that
you
would
provide,
but
would
you
have
the
ability,
the
time
to
be
able
to
provide
us
in
that
capacity?
Absolutely.
U
I,
obviously
practicing
here,
I
know
the
issues
you
had
with
your
prior
City
attorney.
My
way
of
practice
is
different.
I
do
know,
I'm,
not
just
yes
and
no
I'm
not
going
to
allow
you
not
to
know
what
the
law
is.
I'm
not
going
to
allow
you
not
to
know
what
potential
pitfalls
you
have
I'm
more
much
more
proactive
in
those
areas,
I
like
to
and
I
frequently
will
meet
with
Commissioners,
especially
when
I
know
that
there's
issues
that
they
want
to
bring
up
to
go
through
the
pros
and
cons
of
that
particular
issue.
U
Frankly,
the
other
thing
that
I
do
and
I've
been
doing
it
for
ever
is
the
last
thing.
I
want
is
one
of
my
Commissioners
to
be
embarrassed
or
subject
to
any
kind
of
ridicule
at
public
meetings
or
anything
else.
I'd
rather
sit
down
talk
to
them,
go
through
the
pluses
and
minuses
and
allow
them
to
make
their
decision
on
what
they
want
to
do
so
that
that's
the
way
I
practice
I've
always
practiced
that
way.
U
So
it's
just
I'm
not
I'm,
not
going
to
just
be
reactive
I'm,
going
to
at
least
let
you
know
what's
going
on
and
what
what
you
are
potentially
opening
up
as
a
can
of
worms
again
because
I
do
litigation.
I
see
these
I'm
dealing
with
the
Sunshine
Law
cases,
I'm
dealing
with
the
public
records
cases,
so
so
I
know
those
issues
and
and
I
know
the
pitfalls
that
you
can
have
and
I've
and
I've
been
involved
and
I've
seen.
U
Other
municipalities
get
in
trouble
with
some
of
these
things,
and
so
we
try
to
avoid
those,
and
that
and
I
would
not
be
doing
my
job
if
I
allowed
those
things
to
happen.
U
Couldn't
get
on
the
Florida
League?
That's
why
we
do
we
end
up
doing
preferred
government
insurance
trusts?
If,
if
the
city
is
part
of
the
Florida
League,
which
I
know
you
are,
then
that
allows
us
to
get.
A
N
U
That's
fine,
but
for
a
month
like
December,
where
you
may
not
have
a
lot
going
on
I
think
it's
somewhat
ridiculous
to
pay
us
for
something
we're
not
doing
so
that's
and
we
just
come
up
with
a
number
right.
It's
not
the
easiest
thing
to
do,
but
I
all
my
clients
are
hourly.
We
give
a
detailed
bill
that
tells
you
everything.
We've
done
everything
that
it
that
has
occurred.
So
you
can
look
at
that
and
if
you
have
any
questions,
we
could
respond
to
that
so
that
that
would
be
the
only
other
thing.
E
U
City
of
Indian,
Rocks
Beach
for
18
years,
the
town
of
Kenneth
City
before
they
had
a
city
manager
which
I
could
tell
you
of
a
lot
of
the
stories
that
went
on
there.
When
you
talk
about
people
that
were
prosecuted
for
Sunshine
violations,
that
was
it
Reddington,
Beach
and
Madeira,
Beach,
okay
and
I,
as
I
said,
I
currently
serve
for
independent
fire
districts
and
a
special
taxing
district,
which
you
may
know
is
fix.
It's
Palm,
Harbor
library,
Recreation,
East,
Lake
library
and
Recreation.
E
Q
Good
evening,
again,
I
think
I'll
just
kind
of
jump
into
questions.
After
briefly,
addressing
some
of
the
things
that
I've
heard,
we
do
have
an
additional
attorney.
Who
would
work
with
us
on
the
City
attorney
representation?
Who
wasn't
here
tonight?
Her
name
is
Reba
Pierce
she's.
Currently
the
City
attorney
for
Callahan
Florida.
She
would
be
the
main
backup
and
she's
not
here
tonight,
because
she
has
a
deposition
in
Miami
tomorrow.
Q
The
other
thing
I
heard
some
discussion
about
proactivity
I
would
want
to
give
you
an
example
from
our
own
representations
of
that
when
I
became
the
town
attorney
for
one
of
the
towns
that
we
represent.
I
noticed
that
the
after
the
meeting
it
was
actually
the
first
meeting
I
attended.
I
noticed
that
the
mayor
was
speaking
with
a
council
member
about
town
business
after
a
meeting
I
thought
to
myself
boy
that
that
seems
odd,
but
he's
a
non-voting
member,
and
so
what
I
immediately
did
is
I.
Q
Maybe
I
was
a
plant
from
the
outgoing
mayor
who
he
defeated
in
an
election.
We
got
through
that
and
we
built
trust,
but
that
was
an
example
of
me
trying
to
get
out
ahead
of
it.
There
was
a
huge
institution
behind
it.
We
changed
it.
It's
now
settled
in
that
City.
You
know
completely
unintentional.
It's
just
no
one
ever
thought
that
a
non-voting
member
would
actually
be
subject
to
it,
and
so
anyways
I
just
I'd
like
to
open
it
up
to
questions.
If
you
have
any
for
me
at
this
time.
Thank.
D
So
we've
already
had
some
discussions.
Is
there
anything
that
you
or
your
staff
are
doing
that
has
over
scheduling.
Q
D
Q
Do
have
a
family
that
I
love
very
much
but
I'm.
Also
someone
who
works
very
late
and
I
sleep
very
little,
we'll
see
how
long
I
last,
but
it
seems
to
be
working
for
me
so
and
in
our
cities
we
often
have
very
long
meetings
again.
Hilliard
is
actually
further
from
where
I
live
than
Tarpon
Springs
and
we
will
go
to
11
at
night.
There
are
times
when
I
get
back
at
2
A.M.
It's
really
just
a
part
of
the
job,
and
you
know
honestly
windshield
time
is
valuable.
D
Q
Q
Q
E
Q
E
How
would
you
I
would
say
this
would
be
lack
of
better
words,
but
necessarily
the
maturity.
Experience
isn't
as
strong
as
some
of
the
other
applicants
that
are
in
the
the
pool.
E
Q
Yeah
I
I
appreciate
the
delicate
way
in
which
the
question
was
phrased.
I
mean
I.
Think
it's
a
fair
point.
We,
by
virtue
of
the
fact
that
I've
only
been
City
attorney
for
Hilliard
for
four
years,
Pearson
for
three
and
Ocala,
for
you
know
an
assistant
City
attorney
position
for
a
few
years,
it's
fair
to
say
that
we
don't
have
as
much
experience,
but
we
do
make
up
for
it
in
terms
of
what
we're
willing
to
do.
I
think
that
we
have
a
lot
of
experience
with
what
we
have
covered.
Q
Q
If
it's
a
utility
franchise
agreement,
we
do
it,
it's
not
something
that
we
will
or
frankly
have
the
ability
to
hire
outside
counsel
for
okay
and
I
want
to
take
an
opportunity
just
to
market
again
Gerard
Grant,
who
also
was
an
assistant
City
attorney
for
three
years,
and
one
of
the
biggest
cities
in
the
world.
Yeah.
E
E
Q
Actually,
yes,
we
do
it
fairly
often
so
when
there
are
appeals
from
the
Planning
and
Zoning
Board
in
Hilliard,
it
becomes
a
quasi-judicial
proceeding
in
Hilliard,
for
example,
we've
had
many
of
those,
and
that
does
remind
me
one
of
the
things
that
I
I
do
is
I
make
sure
we
all
have
Robert's
Rules
I.
Don't
necessarily
want
you
to
take
my
word
for
it.
I
want
to
be
able
to
reference
either
an
opinion
or
the
book
so
that
people
can
understand
where
I'm
coming
from-
and
that's
just
say
you.
E
Q
I
have
no
preference,
but
that's
what
we
use.
Okay,.
Q
And
commissioner
I
have
provided
it's
in
the
PowerPoint
there's
a
there's,
a
video
of
how
I
run
quasi-judicial
procedures.
E
That's
fine!
What
about
the
rest
of
the
boards?
Do
you
feel
comfortable
I
mean
just
I'm
just
thinking
out
loud,
you
guys
are
in
Orlando
Jacksonville
and
we
have
Monday
Tuesdays
I,
don't
know
when
code
enforcement
is,
it
might
be
a
Wednesday
and
we
may
have
a
Thursday
meeting.
So
maybe
four
meetings
in
the
same
week
right
do
you
feel
comfortable
being
able
to
cover
all.
Q
O
This
is
the
beauty
of
going
almost
last
as
I've
been
listening.
My
questions
have
been
answered.
You
also
answered
some
of
my
questions
from
you
know
the
first
part,
so
I
really
don't
have
any
further
questions.
I
was
definitely
going
to
ask
the
question
about
travel
time
because
I
I
understand
what
it
is
from
Orlando
here
and
multiple.
You
know
meetings
just
for
the
mere
fact
that
you
can
travel
two
hours
to
come
to
a
meeting,
that's
going
to
be
a
half
an
hour
or
an
hour
and
then
you're
two
hours
back.
O
You
know
I,
don't
even
want
to
pick
up
and
drop
off
my
son,
you
know
Lando
airport,
so
I
I
understand,
but
as
long
as
you're,
okay
with
it
I'm,
okay
with
it,
so
I
really
have
no
questions
further.
Q
We've
had
a
lot
of
questions
about
it,
even
at
our
firm
and
it's
something:
we've
never
really
wavered
from
you
know.
Hilliard
is
actually
three
hours
up
and
it's
about
two
and
a
half
hours
back,
but
I've
gotten
used
to
it
done
it
for
four
years
now,
I
actually
enjoy
it.
Now
my
wife
probably
enjoys
having
me
not
in
the
house
on
those.
N
L
Q
And
the
reason
is
because
we
have
to
make
sure
we
have
enough
coverage
and
dedication
to
this
city.
So
no
we're
not
just
going
to
keep
the
contract
so.
L
Q
L
Okay
and
a
lot
of
the
questions
have
been
answered
about
being
able
to
serve
the
different
boards
land
use
issues,
just
the
final
question,
the
home
rule.
What
about
it?
What
can
we
use
it
to
protect
our
city
in
the
best
interests
of
the
residents
in
it,
and
this
unique
town
that
you're
aware
of.
Q
Well,
I
think
home
rule
exists
for
a
reason:
I,
don't
express
a
I'm
not
going
to
express
a
value
for
it.
My
job
is
to
tell
you
what
that
means
for
you
and
your
laws,
and
if
the
state
is
you
know
so
I
think
one
example
might
be.
If
the
legislature
passes
a
law
that
might
impinge
upon
your
home
rule
I
have
to
tell
you
why
and
what
we
have
to
do
about
it.
You
know:
are
we
going
to
challenge
it
in
court?
Are
we
going
to
have
other
cities?
Q
L
With
this
commission
right
here
is
majority
of
these
board
members.
Really,
when
we
campaigned,
we
we
focused
on
trying
to
limit
population
density
and
vertical
density,
and
these
are
big
land
use
issues
that
are
happening
across
the
state
of
Florida.
So
do
you
think
with
the
direction
and
what
we're
looking
to
do
in
preserving
our
small
town,
you
could
help
conform
laws
and
protect
our
city
with
those
ideas.
If.
Q
A
Oh
Mr
wall,
I
I,
know
that
you
mentioned
it
in
the
in
the
special
counsel
as
far
as
applying
for
Municipal,
certification
and
and
city
government.
What
does
that
mean
and
how
does
that
process
work
so.
Q
Until
recently,
if
you
wanted,
if
you
were
a
lawyer-
and
you
wanted
to
say
that
you're
an
expert
in
something
you
had
to
be
board
certified
in
it
by
the
Florida
bar
and
they
have
a
set
of
practice
areas
that
they
will
give
board
certify
you
in
and
it
involves
a
couple
components.
It
involves
a
peer
review,
so
they
send
review
letters
out
to
other
lawyers
and
sometimes
judges
they
get
that
back
and
then
they
kind
of
determine
whether
they'll.
Even
let
you
sit
for
the
exam,
they
don't
let
everyone
sit
for
the
exam.
Q
Then
they
have
what
I
consider
an
extremely
difficult
exam
in
that
practice
area
that
you
have
to
pass
in
order
to
sell
your
board
certified.
So
I've
done
that
in
real
estate.
Gerard
did
that
in
tax,
for
example,
I'm
applying
to
do
that
now
in
city,
county
and
local
government.
Due
to
to
my
experience,
I
think
I
can
prove
it
on
the
test.
However,
they
did
just
change
the
rule.
Where
now
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
be
board
certified
to
say,
you're,
an
expert
if
you
feel
like
you,
have
enough
experience.
A
Alrighty
alrighty,
you
know
you
you've
made
your
case
in
in
previous
situation,
asked
the
questions
and
everything
are
the
Pearson
Florida.
Is
that
what
you
mentioned?
Are
they?
Are
they
videoed
and
you
have
a
video?
Is
that
correct.
A
Youtube,
thank
you.
That's
all
the
questions
I
have,
and
let's
see
that
was
the
the
three
that
we
had
for
the
City
Attorney
Services
I'm,
going
to
ask
whether
there's
any
public
comments
that
there's
only
one
Mr,
Gattis
and
Mr
coolianis
that
are,
and
the
two
coulianis
brothers
are
here.
As
residents
do
you
have
and
of
course
Ms
Marcus
is
on
the
back.
Do
you
have
any
College,
okay,
I?
A
A
No
no
half
hour
for
dinner,
let's
let's
reconvene
at
9,
10,
9
10
and
then
we'll
do
the
last
one,
which
is
the
Litigation
Services.
Thank
you
in
recess,.
A
And
we're
into
our
third
and
final
category,
which
is
litigation
Attorney
Services
and
the
sequence
of
the
law.
Firms
that
are
have
applied
for
that
position
is
Clark
Hill,
Saxon,
Gilmore,
Eunice,
Salzman
and
wild
Grant,
so
Clark
Hill.
Yes,
sir.
V
Good
evening
my
name
is
Frank
scaglione
I'm,
an
attorney
with
the
law.
Firm
of
Clark
Hill
I
understand
it's
getting
pretty
late,
so
I'm
gonna
try
to
keep
my
presentation
as
brief
as
possible,
so
we
can
move
on
to
the
questions
where
I
think
it's
kind
of
where
we
really
get
to
the
meat
of
things
like
I
said
before
I'm,
an
attorney
with
Clark
Hill.
It's
an
amla
200
firm
with
more
than
650
attorneys
across
27
offices
in
the
United
States
Mexico
and
Ireland.
V
I
really
appreciate
everybody
on
this
board,
giving
me
the
opportunity
to
speak
with
you
and
and
explain
how
my
firm
can
serve
the
city
of
Tarpon,
Springs,
I'm
licensed
in
Florida
and
Texas,
but
I
and
I'm
technically
attached
to
my
firm
San
Antonio
office,
but
I
live
and
work
in
Satellite
Beach,
which
I
affectionately.
Consider
my
my
home
office,
the
the
Florida
branch
of
Clark
Hill.
V
My
practice
focuses
on
commercial
litigation,
representing
clients
of
all
sizes,
from
individuals
to
Fortune,
500
companies
in
state
and
federal
court
arbitration
and
other
special
proceedings.
A
small
portion
of
my
practice
also
includes
helping
municipalities
with
some
of
their
functions.
For
example,
I
once
a
month,
I
sit
as
a
special
magistrate
for
code
enforcement
for
the
city
of
Palm
Bay.
V
At
Clark
Hill,
what
really
sets
us
apart
is
our
exceptional
team.
We
have
650
attorneys,
like
I,
said
before,
and
with
that
with
that
many
attorneys
there.
V
Whatever
the
issue
is,
someone
has
seen
it,
someone
has
solved
it
and
that
that
institutional
knowledge
for
for
someone
like
me,
is
just
an
email
away,
and
we
leverage
this
by
encouraging
our
attorneys
to
work
with
each
other
across
not
just
offices
but
also
across
disciplines,
so,
for
example,
I'm
a
litigator
based
in
Florida,
but
I
routinely
work
with
attorneys
in
in
Texas
California,
Illinois
and
Arizona
on
litigation
and
corporate
matters.
V
It's
it's
pretty
tough
to
see
from
this
slide
it's
a
little
busy,
but
basically
what
it's
showing
is
that
we're
we're
pretty
rapidly
growing
firm
at
the
at
this
time,
I
actually
began
my
litigation
career
with
one
of
Clark,
Hill's
predecessor,
firms,
a
firm
called
strasberger
and
price
and
I
started
as
a
summer
associate
in
2015
in
the
San
Antonio
office.
V
One
of
the
things
that
I
think
really
sets
our
culture
apart
from
other
firms,
is
that
up
until
about
five
ten
years
ago,
most
of
what
is
now
Clark
Hill
we're
all
mid-sized
to
Regional
firms,
but
they
were
firms
that
were
competing
with
the
national
Giants.
V
We
represent
this
in
what
we
call
the
Clark
Hill
DNA,
and
this
is
our
core
values
that
that
we,
every
time
we
have
a
firm
meeting,
the
core
values
come
out
whenever
we
talk
with
clients
in
this.
In
a
situation
like
this,
we
discuss
our
our
DNA
and
these
core
values.
They
begin
with
count
on
more.
We
expect
that
our
clients
will
expect
us
to
deliver
high
quality
work
and,
and
that's
what
we
strive
for
every
day,
relationships
really
relationships
are
often.
V
The
most
important
thing
you
can
you
can
do
with
a
client
is
is
to
Foster
that
relationship,
and
we
do
that
by
not
just
being
tenacious
Advocates,
but
also
being
a
pro
approachable
counsel
that
you
can
come
to
us
with
with
any
question,
even
if
it's
not
specifically
related
to
a
certain
case.
Everyone
matters
in
our
firm.
We
value
individual
contributions
and
I
can
attest
to
this
one.
V
Personally,
when
I
came
to
when
I
came
to
the
law,
firm
I
had
previously
spent
10
years
in
the
Air
Force,
and
you
know,
I
lived,
I,
lived
and
breathed
that
very
hierarchical
existence
where,
if
I
want
your
opinion,
I'll
give
it
to
you,
but
as
even
as
a
summer
associate
at
the
firm
I
found
that
people
that
were
practicing
law
as
long
as
I've
been
alive
or
genuinely
interested.
V
In
my
opinion,
about
about
matters
that
I
had
been
researching,
which
and
and
I
think
that
that's
something
that
really
helps
to
Foster
an
atmosphere
where
you
get
to
the
right
answer,
all
the
time
you're
not
just
getting
to
the
answer
that
the
person
who
has
the
loudest
voice
thinks
should
be
the
answer
you
actually
at
our
firm.
You
get
to
the
answer.
That
is
the
correct
legal
answer,
and
then
we
counsel
you
on
how
to
how
to
implement
that
ethical
Behavior.
Obviously,
this
one
is
this
one's
a
non?
Not
not
it's
non-negotiable.
V
We
believe
in
doing
the
right
thing
every
time
and
we
uphold
ourselves
to
the
the
highest
professional
responsibilities
and
we
keep
ourselves
accountable,
and
we
also
we
understand
that
it's
not
just
about
us,
we
might
be.
We
might
be
a
large
Law
Firm.
We
might
be
the
city
of
Tarpon
Springs
attorney
on
a
particular
case,
but
we
understand
that
what
we
do
with
what
we
do.
It's
important
to
make
sure
that
we're
improving
our
the
the
Greater
Community.
V
So
in
representing
Tarpon
Springs
I'm
here
before
you
today
in
response
to
the
litigation
RFP,
but
our
firm
offers
so
much
more
because
we
have
so
many
attorneys
that
have
experience
representing
municipalities
and
things
like
administrative
matters,
constitutional
governance,
land
use,
legal,
legal
malpractice,
and
what
this
means
is
that
when
we
take
on
a
case,
we
understand
that,
especially
for
municipality,
there's
a
much
bigger
picture.
It's
not
just
about
taking
the
most
aggressive
position
possible
or
winning
at
all
costs.
V
V
This
slide
has
my
personal
experience.
I
served
as
an
assistant.
City
attorney
for
the
city
of
Melbourne,
from
June
of
2020,
till
I
came
back
to
Clark
Hill
in
October
of
2021.
V
What
what
that
really
gave
me
was
a
sense
of
the
client's
perspective
from
a
municipality.
Lots
of
people
can
practice
law
their
whole
life
and
never
actually
experience
what
it's
like
to
be.
V
The
client
one
of
the
things
I
did
as
an
assistant,
City
attorney
amongst
all
the
other
jobs
that
cities
attorneys
do
is
I
handled
a
lot
of
the
litigation
docket,
so
occasionally
I
would
represent
the
city
myself
in
court
or
more
often
than
not,
I
acted
as
the
quote-unquote
client,
when
our
insurance
Council
was
was
representing
Us
in
court
and
one
of
the
things
that
consistently
drove
us
nuts
was.
When
the
talk
to
I'm.
V
Sorry,
the
attorneys
would
talk
to
the
insurance
department,
the
insurance
company,
as
if
they
were
the
client,
and
they
would
settle
a
case,
for
example,
without
even
talking
to
us,
which
was
their
contractual
right
to
do.
But
it
gets
kind
of
irksome
when
you're
the
client,
and
then
you
know
the
the
attorney
settles
on
your
behalf,
without
even
telling
you
that
there
was
a
mediation.
V
So
I
understand
that
I
understand
what
it
takes
to
to
keep
the
client
in
the
loop,
especially
in
a
municipality
city
for
the
city
of
Palm
Bay,
like
I,
said
before
I
act
as
a
special
magistrate
for
code
enforcement.
That's
really
given
me
an
appreciation
for
how
difficult
it
can
be
for
a
city
to
balance
the
needs
of
upholding
the
law
and
balancing
the
need
with
with
the
needs
of
its
citizens
and
I.
V
V
V
So,
as
you
can
see,
I
might
I
might
be
the
only
attorney
that
lives
in
Florida,
but
I
have
a
wide
range
of
attorneys
to
draw
on
when,
when
representing
the
city
in
a
case.
A
You
Mr
scaglioni
I,
think
you're,
the
last
of
the
ones
that
we
haven't
asked
this
question.
As
far
as
communication
with
any
of
the
Commissioners
prior
to
the
RFP
process,
have
you
had
any
Communications
with
it
with
any
Commissioners.
A
And
I
were
talking
about
how
beautiful
the
city
is
prior
to
the
RP?
No
okay,
let
me
go
to
questions
vice
mayor
long.
D
V
I
I
don't
have
any
problem
with
that.
It's
pretty
common
in
my
line
of
work
to
pick
up
a
case
from
another
firm,
for
whatever
reason
they
get
conflicted
out
insurance
companies
change
hands
and
want
to
want
to
hire
a
new
law
firm
and
we,
you
know
we
just
try
to
get
as
much
transition
as
we
can
from
the
outgoing
attorneys
and,
if
that's
not
possible,
we
can
always
ask
for
a
continuance
from
the
court
to
give
us
time
to
spin
up.
V
But
one
of
the
things
that-
and
this
isn't
unique
to
me-
I-
think
it's
it's
very
common
amongst
litigators
in
general-
is
that
you
have
to
become
an
expert
on
a
topic
that
you've
never
seen
before
right
away
and
and
that's
kind
of
what
picking
up
a
case
from
another
from
another
attorney
is
like
you,
you
just
have
to
dig
into
it.
Read
through
all
the
pleadings,
the
history
talk
to
the
people
involved,
and
you
know
we
we
do
that.
All
the
time.
D
So
has
your
experience,
I
mean
I
know
you
have
the
experience
with
city
of
Melbourne
and
I
can't
remember
the
other
firm
in
Brevard
County
or
whatever
has
has
it
been
mostly
like
slip
and
falls
and
suits
against
the
city?
Has
it
been
developer,
oriented
or
what's
what's
been,
the
mix
for
you.
V
I
would
say
the
majority
of
the
municipality
litigation
that
I've
that
I've
been
involved
with,
has
been
General
negligence
like
slip
and
falls,
and
but
also
a
lot
of
civil
civil
rights
litigation,
1983
cases
against
against
the
housing
agencies
against
police
officers.
V
As
far
as
things
like
zoning
zoning
lawsuits,
I
have
I,
haven't
personally
been
involved
in
something
like
that,
but
we
have
a
number
of
attorneys
that
that
have
been
involved
in
in
those
sorts
of
cases
have.
D
You
been
involved
in
so
it's
getting
late,
ethics
violation.
V
Cases
thankfully,
I
have
never
had
to
deal
with
an
Ethics
violation
of
someone
that
I
represented.
I
did
have
an
issue
when,
when
I
was
an
assistant,
City
attorney,
we
we
had
to
prosecute
the
you
know
the
red
flag
laws
and
we
had
an
individual
who
it
was
the
police
filed
against
him,
and
it
was
my
job
to
represent
him
in
court.
He
he
had
schizophrenia
and
somehow
Incorporated
me
into
his
delusions
said
that
I
lied
at
a
hearing
that
I
wasn't
even
involved
in
so
that
actually
got
reported.
V
He
filed
a
complaint
against
me,
but
it
was.
It
was
immediately
dismissed.
E
Yeah
from
a
litigation
standpoint
being
over
in
the
Melbourne
area,
Satellite
Beach
any
issues
being
remote
in
your
team
being
completely
out
of
state.
V
I
have
never
seen
an
issue
with
that
when
I
lived
in
San,
Antonio
I
routinely
went
to
attended
hearings
in
Houston,
which
is
roughly
the
same
distance
as
maybe
a
little
bit
longer
when,
if
you
have
to
hit
all
of
Houston
traffic
and
I
also
represented
clients
in
Dallas,
which
is
a
good
five
hours
from
San
Antonio.
V
The
distance
is
actually
one
of
the
reasons
that
I
didn't
apply
for
the
City
attorney
position,
because,
with
the
number
of
board
meetings
that
I
would
have
to
attend
in
that
position
that
that
just
would
be
untenable.
But
when
we're
talking
in
a
litigations
setting
driving
a
few
hours
for
a
hearing
or
mediation
is
not
that.
That's
not
an
issue.
V
H
E
When
you
said
General
negligence
and
is
really
like
kind
of
your
wheelhouse
or
experience,
but
you
then
reference
like
the
rest
of
your
200
of
the
litigators
on
your
firm
and
then
650
attorneys
in
your
firm
as
well
too.
So
if
it's
not
in
your
wheelhouse,
do
you
take
it
or
do
you
pass
it
off
to
another
attorney.
V
It
depends
if
it's,
if,
if
a
case
is
not
necessary,
it's
not
in
my
wheelhouse,
but
it's
something
that
I
can
bring
into
my
wheelhouse
by
just
getting
some
advice
from
another
attorney
or
maybe
bringing
another
attorney
on
just
to
help
me
with
say
the
procedural
matters
or
this,
the
substantive
law
of
a
you
know
very
particular
area.
Then
then,
we'll
do
that.
V
If
it's
a
case
where
you
know
if
you
asked
if
somebody
asked
me
to
represent
them
in
a
divorce,
you
know
that
would
be
something
that
I
would
kick
off
to
somebody
else,
because
it's
not.
H
V
That's
the
sort
of
case,
that's
so
far
out
of
my
wheelhouse-
that
I
wouldn't
I,
wouldn't
take
it
at
all.
Okay,.
E
V
I'm
not
part
of
the
league
of
cities.
I
I
worked
with
them
when
I
was
assistant,
City
attorney
for
Melbourne
and
I
would
love
to
get
on
their
list
of
attorneys.
I
haven't
I,
don't
know
if
I've
been
practicing
in
Florida
just
long
enough
for
that.
Yet,
okay,
but
yes,
I
would
I
would
be
happy
to
work
with
them.
Okay,.
E
O
You
wouldn't
be
familiar
with
the
people
you're
not
familiar
with
types
of
things
that
go
on
here,
so
frogman's
sake.
We
have
a
slip
and
fall
or
any
kind
of
litigation,
you're
not
at
Liberty
to
come
and
take
a
peek
and
see
what
the
situation
is
well.
Would
you
excuse
me,
would
you
have
to
now
hire
somebody
to
go,
take
pictures
and
look
at
it.
Would
that
be
something
you
or
somebody
from
your
firm
would
come
and
if
that's
all
true
who
would
pay
for
all
the
travel
and
what
goes
on
with
that?
Well,.
V
I
think
it's
situation
dependent
even
in,
for
example,
when
when
I
lived
in
San
Antonio,
even
for
cases
in
Bexar
County,
we
would
often
hire
someone
else
to
do
the
things
like
take
the
pictures
and
do
that
sort
of
Investigations
just
because
it's
it's
often
best
to
have
the
have
a
more
neutral
third
party.
Look
at
things
like
that.
You
know
my
first
instinct
when
I,
when
I
represent
a
client.
Is
that,
of
course,
the
plan
you
know.
V
Of
course
the
plaintiff
is
wrong
for
suing
my
client,
so
it
could
color
my
color
how
I
look
at
the
situation,
so
our
general
practice
is
always
to
hire
somebody
else,
those
prices,
those
costs
are
generally
passed
on
to
the
client.
Of
course,
we
only
do
that
with
the
client's
permission.
We
don't.
We
never
hire
an
expert
or
an
investigator
without
getting
that
cleared
from
The
Client
First.
O
But
still
excuse
me,
you'd
be
having
to
travel
sometimes
and
having
a
case
postponed,
deferred,
dismissed
or
a
20-minute
case
and
you're
out
the
door.
Does
this
become
worthwhile.
V
I
I
believe
it
does
I've
done
I've
done
all
of
that
for
plenty
of
other
clients
before
you
know,
coming
from
Texas
I'm
used
to
driving
long
distances
for
for
things
like
for
hearings
that
end
up
getting
postponed
and
then
having
to
do
it
again.
The
next
day.
V
Well,
in
this
context,
the
primary
attorney
would
be
would
be
me,
and
that's
that
speaks
to
the
the
client
attorney
relationship.
So
I
would
be
the
primary
attorney
that
speaks
with
with
the
city
on
matters
and
then
a
senior
attorney
is
that's
part
of
the
Clark
Hill
structure.
So
right
now,
right
now
I'm
an
associate
I'm
up
for
elevation
to
senior
attorney
next
month.
So
hopefully,
next
time
I
speak
with
you,
I'll
be
a
senior
attorney
and
then
the
senior
attorney
has
really
transitioned
from
associate
to
we.
V
We
call
them
members
based
on
our
corporate
structure,
but
you
know
the
equivalent
of
a
partner,
and
so
you,
the
firm
uses,
the
uses,
the
term
senior
attorney
as
a
way
of
differentiating
an
associate
that
is
about
to
become
a
partner.
V
Well,
that's
true:
we
quoted
you,
you
know
we
gave
you
my
rate
in
in
their
RFP
and
we
would
of
course,
honor
that
in
the
contract,
I
hope
my
rate
goes
up
when
I
get
promoted,
but
that
shouldn't
that
shouldn't
be
an
issue
for
this
particular
contract,
because
we've
already
put
the
we've
already
put
those
numbers
on
paper.
V
Andy
Kerr
is
he's
one
of
our
most
senior
members
and
he
represents
Banks
cities.
He
does
a
lot
of
work
with
the
city
of
San
Antonio.
His
his
role
largely
is
a
mentor
to
me
in
these
cases,
I
I
I,
don't
think
you
would
see
his
name
on
too
many
bills,
just
because
the
work
that
we
would
that
we
would
be
doing
would
be
primarily
done
by
me.
If
I
have
a
honestly,
the
stuff
I
would
bring
to
him.
V
The
most
would
be
if
I
had
a
sticky
ethical
question
or
something
of
that
nature
that
I
just
hadn't,
seen
before
and
and
I
needed,
to
go
to
a
mentor
for.
L
L
V
Yes,
he
he's
an
associate
in
our
Pittsburgh
office
and
he
actually
lived
in
Florida
and
worked
for
works
for
a
small,
firm
and
the
Gainesville
area,
I
believe
up
until
last
year
when
he
moved
to
Pittsburgh.
So
he
has.
He
has
a
good
layer
of
Florida
experience.
V
L
And
as
being
our
litigation
attorney
and
pretty
much
Municipal
law,
you
would
be
comfortable
representing
litigation
matters.
Yes
and
administrative
matters.
Yes,
constitutional,
absolutely
governance,
land
use
and
zoning.
V
This
land
use
and
Zoning
I'll
be
honest,
would
be
an
area
that
I
would
I
would
draw
from
the
experience
of
some
of
our
other
attorneys.
L
Would
okay
would
there
be
a
situation
in
which,
as
we
talked
about,
you
may
pass
the
case
on
to
some
one
of
your
fellow
colleagues
who
would
then
be
representing
the
matter.
L
V
L
Okay
and
legal
malpractice
should
be
comfortable
with
yes,
okay
I
mean
a
lot
like
slip
and
falls,
and
a
lot
of
suits
that
come
into
place.
I
would
feel
comfortable
with
you,
representing
I
I,
am
concerned
about
some
land
use
and
Zoning
issues,
because
just
the
complexity
of
it
all
I
mean
there's.
Who
knows
what's
going
to
come
up
and
and
how
it's
going
to
come
up,
and
you
know
when.
L
So
that
is
my
biggest
concern,
because
I
think
that's
one
of
the
bigger
issues
of
litigation
for
for
our
town,
for
at
least
as
of
right
now,
but
I.
U
L
V
L
And
how
many
litigation
cases
have
you
started
and
from
start
to
finish,.
V
From
start
to
finish
in
in
Florida,
I
would
probably
say:
I've
I've
got
about
10
or
so
under
my
belt.
That
I
started
from
start
to
finish:
I
jumped
into
the
middle
of
a
lot
of
them
when
I
came
on
as
a
City
attorney,
but
they
ranged
they
arranged
not
just
from
you
know
your
average
slip
and
Falls
that
we
had
at
the
at
the
city,
but
also
we
we
were
working
on
the
pfas
class
action
lawsuits.
V
We
were
getting
involved
in
that
and
as
outside
Council
I've
worked
a
number
of
cases
where
you
know
it
was
General
negligence,
but
also
in
insurance
and
into
MDD
cases
as
well.
A
I,
would
the
idea
be
that
you
would
if
a
case
was
in
the
sixth
Judicial
Court,
which
was
here
in
Pinellas
County,
you
would
drive
from
Satellite
Beach
to
here,
for
that
court
case
is.
That
is.
V
A
And
what
would
you
describe
your
most
significant
case
in
terms
of
challenging
and
size
and
complexity.
V
You
know
I,
don't
know
if
this
sounds
like
a
cop-out,
but
it's
there
I,
don't
know
if
they're
all
the
same
thing,
challenging
and
complexity
or
not.
For
me,
the
most
challenging
case
I've
had
recently
was
where
we
represented
a
trucking
company
and
the
driver,
and
they
were
both
of
Middle
Eastern
descent.
They
did
not
trust
the
legal
system.
They
were
very
difficult
to
to
communicate.
One
of
them
actually
accused
me
of
working
for
the
plaintiff's
attorney,
because
I
get
I
tried
to
talk
with
him
about
the
interrogatories
that
were
served
on
us.
V
V
The
insurance
Indemnity
case
that
I
recently
wrapped
up
in
we.
We
ended
up
settling
it
through
through
informal
negotiations,
but
that
one
was
that
one
was
complicated,
because
there
were
special
procedural
matters.
It
was
in
federal
court
which
I
don't
I,
don't
know
if
you're
familiar
but
federal
court.
V
They
do
not
mess
around
with
the
rules,
and
you
know
you
can
you
can
file
the
perfect
brief,
but
if,
if
one
t
is
not
crossed,
then
then
that
that
case
will
get
kicked
out
and
then,
as
far
as
most
complex
or
currently
have
a
work
in
a
case
where
it
we
had
a
number
of
friends
and
family
that
started
a
bit
started
several
businesses
Unfortunately.
They
started
it
in
January
of
2020.,
which
was
a
really
bad
time
to
take
out
lots
and
lots
of
loans.
A
V
Most
of
my
most
of
my
clients
are
are
private.
My
three
biggest
municipal
clients
are
San
Antonio,
Housing
Authority,
the
Houston
Housing
Authority
and
then
city
of
Palm
Bay.
C
V
Actually
most
of
my
work
is
I'm.
Sorry,
most
of
my
work
is
actually
in
Texas.
The
work
that
I
do
in
Florida
right
now
is
very,
it's
very
geographically
dispersed
because,
by
virtue
of
my
position
in
The
Firm,
I'm
kind
of
the
Florida
guy,
if
somebody
has
somebody
has
a
case
that
involves
Florida,
they
come
to
me
and
you
know
a
lot
of
the
like.
For
example,
one
of
my
biggest
client
is
probably
7-Eleven
and
we
I
do
a
lot
of
different
work
for
them.
A
Okay,
that's
all
I
have
do
any
Commissioners.
Have
any
follow-up
questions.
T
And
I
are
back
to
respond
to
one
question
on
ethics:
I
have
been
in
Florida
in
front
of
the
Florida
ethics
commission
once
with
a
client
and
I've
been
on
bar
grievance
committees
for
three
terms,
so
nine
years
so
pretty
familiar
with
the
bar
rules
and
the
rules
of
the
ethics
Commission.
T
So
we
talked
before
about
our
litigation.
Experience
been
doing
this
since
1988.
I
can't
remember
all
the
cases
I've
done.
I've
done
cases
in
federal
court,
civil
rights
cases,
I've
done
cases
involving
Puerto
Rican
law,
which
is
a
civil
law
jurisdiction.
Fortunately,
we
were
able
to
try
them
in
Tampa
and
Savannah
in
the
federal
courts
and
avoided
doing
the
litigating
in
Puerto
Rico.
Although
we
did
a
lot
of
the
discovery
down
there.
Most
of
the
cases
we've
I've
handled
for
public
housing,
clients
have
been
construction.
T
T
It's
during
covid
and
a
lot
of
money
got
paid
out
without
a
lot
of
results
being
achieved
until
finally
HUD
kind
of
indicated
their
displeasure
that
guy
got
kicked
out
of
his
interim
executive
director
role.
New
people
came
in
and
went
this
is
crazy
and
then
the
contractor,
who
is
who
had
had
responsibility
for
design
and
construction
and
set
a
budget
came
in
and
said,
I
need
another
year
and
a
half
and
another
two
million
dollars,
and
at
that
point
we
terminated
and
made
a
demand
on
The
Surety,
which
we
are
still
working
through.
T
We're
probably
gonna.
Are
you
familiar
with
rad?
Yes,
okay,
we're
probably
going
to
convert
this
public
housing
project
to
A
rad
project.
This
will
give
us
additional
funds,
because
apparently
his
budget
was
wildly
optimistic
for
the
funds
available
to
him
to
do
the
work.
So
we
are
working
through
that.
It's
a
fairly
unsophisticated
client,
so
we're
having
to
get
them
comfortable
with
the
whole
rad
process
and
how
they
would
administrate
administer.
It
later,
but
there
is
a
way
out
of
this:
it
ends
up
with
good
good
housing
for
the
residents,
which
was
the
point.
N
E
When
you
want
to
litigate,
obviously
the
best
interest
or
you're
serving
the
best
interest
of
the
city
and
the
residents
and
the
commission,
I
guess
as
a
whole
right
correct.
What's
the
Avenue
that
you
take
I
mean
you,
you
look
for
settlements,
or
do
you
look
for
different?
What's
the
aspect
or
kind
of
the
approach
you
take.
T
If
everybody
understands
the
case,
it
should
settle
in
a
way
that
is
good
for
both
parties
that
avoids
litigation
expense,
even
bigger
than
that
avoids
the
risk
of
a
jury
or
a
judge
going
sideways
on
you,
which
could
happen.
So
the
important
thing
is
to
try
to
figure
out
to
learn
the
case
figure.
It
all
out
then
be
open
with
your
opposing
account.
This
is
not
what
you
see
on
TV
nobody's
coming
in
with
that
you
know
the
gotcha
moment.
Everybody
should
pretty
much
know
everything
that's
coming
in
the
system
is
designed
for
that.
T
You
have
to
do.
You
have
to
disclose
all
exhibits
before
you
go
to
trial.
Your
Witnesses
should
all
be
thoroughly
deposed
and
their
Witnesses
should
be
thoroughly
deposed.
The
only
thing
that
goes
on
next
is
is
the
art
of
putting
on
a
presentation
to
appeal
to
the
Trier
fact,
whether
that's
a
judge
or
jury,
but
once
you
understand
the
case,
and
you
understand
the
law
and
the
facts,
there
should
be
a
way,
particularly
with
a
good
mediator,
to
come.
T
T
Run
into
it,
it
needs
to
be
very
expressed
to
be
able
to
plead
it
and
then
prove
it.
Unfair
business
practices,
you'll
have
a
client
come
in
and
say
this
is
fraudulent.
You'll
go
well,
that's
really
unfair,
but
it's
it's
probably
not
actionable
fraud.
If
it's
really
actionable
fraud,
then
you
can
go
to
the
unfairly
deceptive
Trade
Practices
Act,
which
gives
you
some
advantages
as
a
plaintiff.
So.
E
E
A
Legacy
I
think
it's
any
time.
It's
monetary!
Is
that
correct?
Yes,
there's
any
kind
of
a
monetary
claim.
You
know
more
than
us
as
far
as
to
exceed
15
000
or
whatever
the
threshold
is.
It's.
T
H
H
T
T
T
Board,
if
the
league
of
cities
are
handling
it,
then
your
attorney
should
be
just
monitoring
it.
Okay
and
they
should
be
keeping
informed
and
sometimes
you'll
have
situations
where
some
of
the
claims
are
covered
and
some
are
not.
Then
your
litigation
Council
needs
to
work
with,
with
insurance,
defense
counsel,
to
fully
defend
the
case.
Okay,.
E
What
do
you
think
your
strength
is
as
a
firm,
larger
and
litigation
or
larger
and
City
attorney
practices.
T
Eight
of
us
litigate
so
Jerry's,
the
only
one
that
does
full-time
City
attorney
work.
All
of
us
do
work
with
the
housing
authorities.
I
do
a
lot
of
work
with
HCC
and
now
Early
Learning.
So
we
wear
a
couple
of
hats:
I've
been
doing
litigation
longer
than
I've
been
doing.
You
know
corporate
Council
work,
but
I've
been
working
for
HCC
at
this
firm
and
the
firm
before
it
since
probably
1996..
E
I,
don't
have
any
other
questions.
Thank
you.
O
Mayor
I
need
to
ask
you
some
questions
regarding
this
case
that
you
were
discussing.
You
didn't
write
the
contract,
for
this
case
correct
no,
okay.
So
at
what
point
did
you
take
it
over.
T
When
the
dispute
started,
okay,
you're
talking
about
the
one
in
Puerto,
Rico
or
the
other
one
in
with
a
rad
contract,
the.
O
T
T
A
few
of
our
these
people
do
a
lot
of
Contracting,
and
this
is
not
a
good
example
of
how
they
how
they
do
their
work.
Usually,
but
no,
we
don't
necessarily
review
their
contracts
now,
if
it's
a
a
full-on
development
contract,
Like
A
rad,
where
we're
doing
one
from
scratch,
which
you
my
partner,
Bernice
and
Emma
Josette,
do
a
lot
of
that.
I
will
often
review
the
construction
contracts
from
those
contracts,
but
when
they
just
go
out
on
a
project,
we
don't
necessarily
see
it.
In
fact,
more
often
than
not,
we
don't
see
it.
T
T
T
O
T
L
Yes
and
as
I
described
to
one
of
the
previous
applicants,
you
know
the
the
slip
and
Falls
the
malpractice,
the
you
know,
the
those
type
of
situations
I
think
can
handle
themselves
with
with
good
attorney
representation,
and
my
main
focus
is
this
litigation
that
we
have
that
if
you're
hired
may
be
passed
on
to
you
with
this
land
use
issue,.
L
No
I'm
not
we're
we're
just
speaking
in
general
right
now,
but
right
here
it
says
on
your
application
or
your
proposal.
Experience
an
administrative
law,
constitutional
law,
land
use
and
Zoning
Florida,
open
meeting
public
records
and
public
officials
and
ethics
law
and
with
the
lane
use
of
zoning
is
that
more
related
to
a
lot
of
the
housing
authorities.
That.
T
Well,
we're
representing
and
a
lot
of
these
new
development
deals
that
are
being
done
where
housing
authorities
to
get
to
get
to
the
financing
have
to
set
up
not-for-profits,
who
then
act
on
their
behalf?
T
L
Those
type
of
right
now
when
it
comes
to
competent,
substantial
evidence
and
that
type
of
litigation
with
land
use
and
is
that
something
you're
comfortable
with
or
is
there
someone
in
your
firm
that
you'd
be
comfortable
with.
L
What
do
you
think
your
your
best
suits
it
and
I
see
in
the
on
the
documentation,
General's,
civil
litigation
and
commercial
litigation
and
public,
affordable
and
Workforce
housing?
What
do
you
think
you'd
be
able
to
bring
to
the
table
when
it
came
to
you
know,
City
litigation
aspect.
W
I
was
a
prior
former
or
former
State
Attorney
in
this
County
several
years
ago,
in
the
beginning
of
my
career,
so
I
was
able
to
get
a
lot
of
jury,
trial,
experience
and
and
trial
experience.
A
binge
trial
experience
so
certainly
I've
actually
tried.
We've
tried
case
together.
Jury
truck
is
a
very
typically
Civ
in
civil,
the
Civil
world,
it's
very
expensive
to
try
jury
trials
and
that's
some.
W
You
know
settlement
is
typically
the
preferred
route,
but
as
a
prosecutor,
I
was
able
to
try
a
lot
of
jury
trials
and
get
a
lot
of
experience
and
so
I
think
I
bring
that
to
the
table.
Also
I
help
with
the
general
counsel
aspect
of
a
lot
of
our
public
housing,
clients,
which
you
know
is
more
than
30
and
I
and
under
that
umbrella,
I
do
a
lot
of
litigation
for
them.
W
A
lot
of
that
litigation
is
landlord
tenant
related,
it's
also
fair
housing,
discrimination,
type
cases
due
process,
violation,
type
cases,
so
I
I
bring
that
aspect,
I
think
to
the
table
and
also
I'm
familiar
with
briefing
the
board,
with
with
respect
to
litigation,
keeping
them
in
tow
I.
That
seems
to
be
a
big
issue
that
I'm
hearing,
but
it's
always
been
my
practice
when
you
have
litigation
that
you,
the
client
has
to
know
what's
going
on
throughout,
so
they
can
make
informed
decisions.
W
They
need
to
know
and
know
the
pitfalls
they
need
to.
They
need
to
know
all
that
up
front
and
I
think
you
have
better
outcomes,
the
client's
more
satisfied.
If
they're
they
know
what's
going
on,
you
keep
them
informed.
It
may
even
be
individually
briefing.
W
You
know,
Commissioners
on
certain
litigation,
depending
on
the
status
of
the
case.
You
might
have
to
have
a
shade
meeting,
but
that's
in
very
specific
situations.
You
know,
there's
a
statutory
requirement
with
respect
to
that,
so
I
think
I'm,
not
the
secondary,
but
I'm.
One
of
I've
been
practicing
for
28
years.
I've
been
with
the
firm,
probably
20
years,
so
I
think
whatever
assistance
that
Frasier
would
require.
I
could
certainly
help
him
with
that,
especially
with
a
trial.
W
L
And
that's
it.
A
All
right,
I,
don't
have
any
questions.
Let's
see.
A
U
Mayor
and
Commissioners,
you
know
I've
already
mentioned
to
you
the
types
of
litigation
that
we've
handled
to
answer.
Some
of
your
questions.
I
have
been
in
front
of
the
first
DCA
several
times
handling
ethics
cases
I've
been
as
I
said:
I
we
do
insurance,
Defense
work
for
governmental
agency,
so
we
end
up
handling
being
appointed
in
those
ethics
cases.
As
you
know,
that
doesn't
happen
on
every
ethics
case.
U
In
fact,
a
lot
of
those
cases
that
individuals
have
to
go
and
hire
their
own
Council
and
defend
themselves,
but
I've
been
involved
in
several
where
the
boards
have
approved
representation.
So
we've
gone
to
Tallahassee
and
dealt
with
those.
You
actually
have
the
hearings
in
front
of
the
first
DCA
building,
which
is
it's
kind
of
interesting
from
that
standpoint.
But
my
background
and
apparently
I
must
be
the
oldest
guy
here.
I've
been
practicing
here
since
1986.
I
started
off
as
a
prosecutor
back
when
Jimmy
Russell
was
a
state
attorney.
U
If
you
all
remember
that
when
I
worked
with
Bernie
as
a
alongside
Bernie
McCabe,
when
he
was
there,
so
that's
how
we
I
cut
my
teeth.
My
firm
is
a
litigation
firm.
My
other
partners,
that's
what
they
do.
They
don't
do
all
the
my
partners.
Do
not
do
the
governmental
City
attorney,
but
they
do
the
governmental
litigation.
So
we
handle
all
aspects
of
that
all
the
way
appellate
cases
You
Name,
It
We
handle
it
and
we
try
them
that's.
We
also
represent
an
insurance
company
Geico.
We
try
all
their
complicated
cases
and
a
trucking
company.
U
We
also
do
PSTA.
We
do
their
litigation,
not
their
representation.
So
those
are
the
clients
that
we
have
now
when
you
I
mentioned
before
that
I
represent
even
currently
zoning
cases
that
you're
talking
about
I
have
one
for
Treasure
Island.
It's
kind
of
an
interesting
case.
I'll
give
you
the
nickel
version
of
it.
There
was
a
if
you're
familiar
with
the
Treasure
Island
yacht
and
Tennis
Club
area.
U
There
is
condominiums
that
were
built.
All
part
of
a
master
plan
back
in
the
1970s
density
was
transferred
to
the
Condominiums
fast
forward.
Yacht
and
country
club
marina
is
not
doing
well,
they
end
up
going
to
bankruptcy.
2009
Bill
Edwards
bought
them
out
of
bankruptcy.
He
tried
to
make
it
into
a
viable
situation.
He
couldn't
so.
He
brought
forth
recently
we
just
handled
actually
the
hearing
one
of
the
hearings
last
week.
U
We
now
have
a
new
complaint
on
it,
but
they
tried
to
reopen
a
judgment
which
was
dealing
with
a
resolution
that
the
city
of
Treasure
Island
had
passed
to
verify.
That
density
was
no
longer
on
this
property
for
residential
purposes,
so
they
attempted
to
reopen
a
case
that
was
40
years
old
and
one
of
the
interesting
aspects
of
it
was.
U
We
had
to
deal
with
bankruptcy
issues
because
they're
trying
to
say
that
when
you
purchase
something
out
of
bankruptcy,
which
you
all
may
be
familiar,
is
that
you
cannot
have
any
encumbrance
on
a
title
which
is
true,
but
densities
and
Zoning
is
not
an
encumbrance.
We
finally
I
mean
it's
hard
to
find
a
case
that
said
that,
but
we
found
the
case
that
said
that,
and
so
we
went
through
a
fairly
lengthy
hearing
and
I
was
happy
to
say
that
the
judge
ruled
in
my
favor.
U
At
the
end
of
that
hearing,
of
course,
now,
I
have
a
complaint
that
I'm
actually
answering
on
a
declaratory
action,
which
is
what
you
see
a
lot
in
government
cases.
We
have
a
lot
of
declaratory
actions
and
they're
trying
to
determine
again
their
rights
under
residential
purposes,
which
we
think
has
already
raised
you
to
Kata,
which
has
already
been
decided
by
the
courts.
But
that's
what
we're
dealing
with
right
now
and
there's
also
with
the
same
client.
H
U
So
in
this
particular
case
they're
coming
forward
and
saying
we
don't
know
what
our
rights
are
on
this
particular
piece
of
property
as
to
what
we
can
build
so
they're
asking
the
court
to
make
a
determination
as
to
what
their
rights
are
now.
Obviously,
in
the
case,
I've
just
told
you,
we
think
their
rights
are
pretty
clear.
They
just
don't
want
those
particular
rights,
but
I'll.
Never
give
you
another
example.
We
have
a
case
for
Gulfport.
What
happened
in
this
case
is
there
is
a
city
dedicated
Road.
U
U
For
some
reason,
a
particular
resident
wants
to
have
access
to
go
through
the
mangroves
to
launch
his
kayak
there's,
actually
a
kayak
launching
about
a
hundred
yards
away,
but
you
don't
want
to
use
that
he
wants
to
be
behind
these
neighbors
property.
So
we
met
with
him
and
we
said:
look
the
city's,
never
maintained
this
area
and
we're
not
even
sure
it
was
dedicated
to
us
because
we've
never
used
it.
It
was
dedicated
as
a
platted
Road.
U
U
So
we
can
do
that,
unfortunately,
that
individual
decided,
yeah
well,
I,
don't
want
the
city
to
do
that
and
he
sued
us
so
we're
going
to
court
on
that
action
and
frankly,
it's
gone
through
a
lot
of
issues
because
in
the
meantime,
the
property
owners
that
are
in
front
of
that
particular
area
all
asked
for
that
Alleyway
slash
unused
road
to
be
vacated
and
the
board
just
vacated
it.
So
that's
all
also
one
of
the
issues
and
then
to
throw
it
in
there.
U
There's
a
question
as
to
whether
the
charter
should
have
required
a
referendum
elect
election
to
determine
whether
or
not
you
can
give
away
public
property,
even
though
it's
not
beach
access.
So
all
those
issues
are
coming
forward,
but
that
now,
since
he
filed
suit,
it's
not
one
that
I'm
handling,
we
have
our
insurance
company,
that's
handling
it.
U
That's
what
I
down
you're,
throwing
me
back
in
the
Briar
Patch?
That's
that's!
How
I
cut
my
teeth
as
as
said
being
a
prosecutor
in
this
County.
It
was
phenomenal
experience,
great
training,
fond
memories,
I,
like
being
in
the
courtroom.
O
Commissioner
Eisner
you've
touched
a
couple
of
sore
spots.
We
have
issues
with
vacating
a
property
here,
so
it's
very
interesting
I
really
have
no
questions
to
ask.
I
just
would
like
to
know
that.
Should
we
decide
to
utilize,
I
mean
we're
utilizing
you
now
anyway,
as
a
litigator,
has
there
been
any
problems.
U
No
frankly,
I
mean
other
than
the
one
case
that
you're
all
aware
of
most
your
cases
are
not
really
actively
being
litigated,
so
there
you
don't,
have
a
lot
of
litigation
right
now,
that's
good
right
and
you
should
and
try
not
to
have
litigation.
I
agree
with
you,
that's
what
we
try
to
avoid,
but
you
don't
have
a
lot
of
litigation.
The
matters
that
you
have
are
are
not
that
complicated.
U
There
are
obviously,
as
we
well
know,
code
cases
come
in.
We
deal
with
maybe
injunctive
action,
some
foreclosure
things.
Those
are
the
things
that
we
normally
see
in
a
municipal
situation
other
than
the
one
that
you
have.
Everything
else
is
pretty
pretty
much
done
or
is
in
the
process
of
a
couple
hearings,
those
kind
of
things,
but
they
were
left
in
in
good
shape.
U
Have
not
opened
up
and
told
me
what
was
going
on
at
this
time,
which
is
not
unusual
that
that
that's
you
know
when
you
see
the
way
ethics
cases
go.
Obviously
they
do
their
initial
investigation,
which
could
take
a
long
period
of
time,
because
there's
only
two
investigators
in
the
State
of
Florida.
U
We
then,
from
that
point
there
is
a
a
findings
made
by
the
attorney
that
works
for
the
ethics
Department,
to
determine
whether
or
not
they're
going
to
recommend
bringing
it
forward
if
they
bring
it
forward
and
the
board
makes
a
determination
that
it's
worth
they
find
probable
cause
to
move
forward,
then
the
then
the
case
really
gets
involved
a
lot
of
times.
Those
things
don't
happen.
There
are
numerous
cases
where
either
individuals
might
feel
like
they.
There
was
a
violation,
there's
no
probable
cause
found.
In
some
cases
there
are
fines
paid.
U
There
have
been
I've
handled,
one
all
the
way
to
administrative
hearing.
It
was
for
actually
involving
the
former
fire
chief
at
the
city
of
Madeira
Beach,
where
we
actually
did
the
administrative
hearing
by
Zoom,
which
was
very
interesting,
because
the
administrative
law
judged
was
in
Tallahassee
and
all
the
witnesses
were
in
Saint
Pete.
So
that
was
is.
O
There
any
way,
though,
that
you
can
get
any
information
and
and
I
asked
this
only
because
you
know-
and
this
may
be
a
little
bit
off
the
beaten
path,
but
because
the
only
one
they
interviewed
was
the
attorney.
That's
resigned.
Our
attorney
so
I
mean
it.
Ethics.
U
Cases
move
at
their
own
speed,
okay
and
the
investigators
move,
as
as
best
they
can
and
and
I
the
investigators.
The
two
that
I've
met.
The
only
two
are
are
good,
hard-working
individuals,
but
they
got
a
lot
on
their
plate.
That's
when
I
tell
people
when
there's
an
Ethics
complaint
going.
You
may
not
see
anything
for
six
months.
U
A
U
U
Your
amount
of
litigation
should
be
done
hourly
in
my
opinion,
and
I.
I
would
think.
I
would
urge
the
board
to
consider
that
when
you're
making
your
final
decision
as
to
who
you
select
that
you
do
it
on
an
hourly
basis,
I
just
think
otherwise.
You're
wasting
City
funds.
A
I
I
also
wanted
to
thank
you
for
stepping
in
and
helping
us
out
you
volunteered
to
do
that.
You
didn't
have
to
with
the
litigation
and
I
appreciate
you
doing
that
and
on
the
earlier
matter,
I
think
the
city
manager
is
going
to
send
out
a
memorandum
in
the
morning
kind
of
clarifying
everything.
So
it.
U
Q
I'll,
try
not
to
burden
you
with
my
voice
for
too
much
longer.
Just
a
couple
things
about
litigation.
We
are
passionate
about
litigation,
our
Law
Firm.
We
have
many
many
cases
from
Miami
up
to
Nassau
County.
One
of
the
cases
we
have
right
now
in
Nassau
County
is
on
behalf
of
the
town
of
Hilliard.
It's
it's
a
quiet,
title
action.
Q
Where
back
when
a
survey
was
done
back
in
1910,
the
surveying
equipment
wasn't
as
accurate
as
it
could
have
been,
and
therefore
the
platted
utility
access
we're
supposed
to
have
actually
runs
through
a
bunch
of
lots
where
it
should
run
directly
adjacent
to
a
County
Road.
So
what
we're
doing
is
we're
trying
to
reform
that
right
now
devised
a
way
to
do
it
and
that's
still
in
progress
and
and
actually
it's
good
for
the
owners.
It's
it's
hard
trying
to
explain
that
it's
good
for
the
owners.
Q
Q
Town
of
Pearson
right
now
we
have
a
case
where
we're
seeking
injunctive
relief,
there's
a
property
that
is
dangerous
to
the
public.
It's
got
all
kinds
of
nuisance
issues.
There
is
a
Florida
statute
that
enables
you
to
file
a
lawsuit
to
Abate
the
nuisance.
If
code
enforcement's
not
acting
so
we
have
something
going
on
with
that.
We've
had
a
ton
of
cases
on
behalf
of
cities,
we've
litigated
against
the
SEC
and
the
cftc
in
federal
court.
Q
We
represent
one
of
the
largest
entertainment
companies
in
the
United
States
in
federal
court
for
copyright
infringement
and
we're
not
copyright
infringement
experts,
but
you
know
they
hired
us
due
to
our
reputation
and
we're
knocking
heads
together
on
that.
But
I'd
love
to
answer
any
questions
you
have.
A
L
Mr
wall
you
had
mentioned
Reba
Pierce.
Is
she
her
litigation
experience?
Can
you
touch
on
that
a
little
bit
I.
Q
Don't
anticipate
she'll
be
working
with
us
on
the
litigation
aspect
of
it,
but
she
does
have
litigation
experience.
In
fact,
she
should
be
available
as
needed,
but
she
has.
She
worked
with
us
on
what
I
would
consider
the
most
complex
case
I've
ever
been
a
part
of
which
was
a
three
year
long
battle
in
federal
court
with
Windham
over
timeshare
stuff
and
what
rights
do?
Lawyers
have
to
advise
clients
regarding
their
time
shares.
That's
the
25
000
Exhibit
case,
but
we're
talking
hundreds
of
millions
of
pages
of
documents
and
she
was
wonderful.
Q
L
Grant
he
seems
to
have
some
experience,
can
you
can
you
go
ahead
and
will
he
be
part
of
litigation
and
he
was
a
assistant
attorney.
Q
For
the
the
city
of
Atlanta
correct,
he
was
an
assistant
City
attorney
in
Atlanta,
where
he
did
a
lot
of
things,
but
most
of
what
he
focused
on
was
Bond
Bond
work,
Bond
disclosure
that
kind
of
stuff
financing
for
projects.
He
does
do
some
litigation
right
now,
but
he
would
not
be
on
the
a
team
so
to
speak
for
litigation
here.
It
would
be
me
and
Mary
Norberg
who
you
met
earlier.
H
Q
Q
You
know
don't
expect
to
have
a
Perry
Mason
moment
every
now
and
then,
if
the
depositions
haven't
occurred,
you
can
have
a
Perry
Mason
moment
and
we
brought
a
voter
in
that
we
weren't
actually
sure
what
they
were
going
to
say,
but
we
knew
they
were
an
important
vote
and
what
they
said
was
I.
Never
voted
that
day.
Well,
your
absentee
ballot
was
counted.
That's
not
my
signature.
I!
Never
voted
and
I
certainly
didn't
vote
for
this
guy.
So
the
other
side
didn't
see
it
coming.
Q
L
No,
it's
nice
to
hear
it's.
It's
a
it's
a
good
example.
I
have
no
further
questions.
Thank
you,
mayor.
A
I'm
good
as
well
Mr
wall,
we're
going
to
wrap
this
evening
up
I'm
going
to
check
and
just
ask
whether
there's
any
public
comments
and
I
don't
know
of
any
and
Mr
jump
one
last
time
any
public
comments
up
there
online.
A
He
said
no
okay,
thank
you
all
right.
So
the
next
step
is
next
Monday
night
we're
going
to
have
discussions
on
the
selection
of
the
three
categories
and
it'll
be
a
public
meeting
very
similar
to
what
we
had
tonight.
You're
welcome
to
be
there
it
it's
completely
up
to
you,
I,
don't
believe
there
will
be
any
communication
by
the
commission
with
you
if
that
changes,
we'll
let
you
know
this
week
sometime
in
that
regard
and
I
believe
the
starting
time
for
next
week
will
be
6
30
instead.
A
All
right,
thank
you
for
being
here
we're
going
to
go
to
board
and
staff
comments.
Sergeant
Mathis.
Do
you
have
anything.
L
O
A
A
Let's
see
city
manager,
of
course,
Ms
minutos.
Thank
you
for
being
here
Michelle.
It's.
You
hit
two
two
big
meetings
here
so.
D
No
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
to
all
the
legal
firms
and
the
representatives
that
showed
up
tonight.
It
was
a
great
process
thanks
very
much.
E
Sure
can
can
we
discuss
what
Monday's
going
to
look
like
just
so
we
have
an
idea
what.
A
It's
pretty
much
going
to
flow
the
way,
the
three
items
that
we
have
here
and
then
after
those
decisions
will
be
made.
There's
there's
basically
we've
got
the
applicants
and
then
it
it's
going
to
be
a
general
discussion
of
the
applicants
and
then
there
could
be
it
depending
on
how
the
discussion
goes.
A
E
For
yeah
I
just
want
to
understand
so
like
is
it
going
to
be
similar
to
how
we
select
a
board
member
for
the
advisory
boards
that
vice
mayor
would
say
for
litigation?
I
want
to
see
this
attorney,
then
it
would
go
to
me.
I
would
say
this
attorney
and
we
would
all,
and
then
whoever
has
the
most.
We
say
then
have
a
discussion
at
that
point
or
or
do
we
rank
them
and
then
provide
our
rankings
or
I
just
want
to.
A
E
A
Think
in
that
particular
case,
it's
just
I
think
oftentimes
would
be
better
just
to
have
a
conversation
and
see
how
it
goes
and
whether
there's
we
reach
some
kind
of
a
consensus
and
if
not,
then,
basically,
what
we
wind
up
doing
is
what
we've
done
in
the
past.
Somebody
makes
a
makes
a
motion
for
somebody,
the
second
and
then
we'll
and
if
they're,
if
it
and
then
if,
if
there
is
no
motion,
if
there's
a
motion,
but
no
second,
then
that
dies
and
if
there's
a
motion.
Second,
we
vote
and
that
fails.
H
A
E
E
Think
it's
a
good
idea
for
us
to
be
prepared
for
the
meeting,
so
we're
not
coming
into
it,
not
knowing
where
we
stand
so
yeah.
A
D
D
A
B
Now
technically
this
was
done.
The
first
one
would
have
been
a
ranking
system,
but
since
we
didn't
receive
as
many
proposals
there's
no
point
in
an
initial
ranking,
that's
typically
how
it's
done.
We
would
have
done
an
initial
ranking
and
then
we
would
have
sent
out
a
short
list
and
then
you
know
bring
them
in
for
the
interviews
and
then
a
selection.
B
B
N
O
On
the
two
people,
there's,
only
everybody
could
just
give
a
choice
and
we
would
have
to
have
a
three
to
two
Vote
or
more
on
the
others.
You
just
pick
who
you
want
as
your
number
one
person
and
we
see
how
that
goes.
H
O
I,
just
don't
understand
why
you
know:
that's
that's
how
we
should
do
it.
I
mean
it's
the
fairest
way.
You
know
we
could
have
five
agreements.
We
could
have
four
to
one
we,
you
know,
but
you'll
know.
Unless
you
have
a
multitude
of
different
choices
and
we
don't
have
a
majority,
then
we
have
to
deal
with
it
differently.
My.
A
And,
rather
than
trying
to
script
it
and
and
just
going
and
because
I
think
that
our
special
counsel
category
is
going
to
be
much
different
than
City
attorneys
addresses
and,
and
then
the
litigation
is
is
kind
of
in
between,
but
on
a
scale
of
of
magnitude.
In
terms
of
the
amount
of
work,
that's
probably
the
lead.
The
one
at
this
point
is
got
the
least
the
least.
That
would
be
providing
work
to
the
applicant
that
selected
that
process.
So
you
know
it's
something
for
you
all
to
think
of.
A
We've
got
some
excellent
candidates.
The
one
thing
that
I
do
know
that
we
agreed
to
was
to
keep
the
three
count,
those
three
categories
separate.
So
we
don't
have
the
same
Law
Firm
into
the
categories
because
of
I.
Don't
call
them
conflicts
of
interest,
but
just
as
we
discussed
earlier
sent
incentivizing
I
think
the
one
Law
Firm
brought
out
the
fact
that
they
wouldn't
expect
to
litigate.
Because
that's
you
know
they
just
wanted
to
do
the
special
counsel,
stuff
and
I.
H
A
Got
five,
we've
got
five
applicants
and
three
categories:
I'm,
confident
that
we'll
be
able
to
work
that
out
next
week.
Just
the
only
thing
I
ask
you
to
do
is
in
your
minds
is
to
kind
of
look
at
the
and
fortunately
everything
is
videoed,
and
so
you
can
do
replays
if
you'd
like
you,
can
also
call
the
applicants
if
you've
got
specific
questions
that
come
up.
A
I
think
what
we're
going
to
do,
and
and
I'm
just
pointing
this
out
tentatively
Mr,
Licorice
and
I
spoke
about
providing
each
of
the
law,
firms
for
the
City,
Attorney
Services
schedule
of
our
meetings,
both
board
meetings
and
the
city
commission
meetings
to
make
sure
that
they
can
commit
to
those
times
if
they
if
they
are
selected
and
if
they
can't,
then
they
need
to
let
us
know
and
and
and
if
they're
vying
for
another
category.
Perhaps
that
would
be
the
one
that
they
would
pursue,
rather
than
than
something
that
they
can't
commit
to.
L
I'd
like
to
do
the
the
a
lot
of
meetings
the
just
like
we've
been
choosing
our
our
boards
right.
We
just
have
our
discussions.
Go
from
there,
I
I
know
we
we
have
in
the
past
and
and
I'm
open
to
I
wanted
to
get
the
attorney
that
we
can
all
agree
upon
and
I
I
would
be
upset
if
you
know
they
can't
come
on
the
second
and
fourth
Tuesdays
of
the
month.
So
I'm
not
saying
that
we
should
change
the
meetings,
but
we've
done
it
in
the
past
for
prior.
X
No,
like
I,
say
we've.
We
went
for
the
longest
of
times,
first
and
third
Tuesday
and
when
we
changed
the
Mr
tribes,
we
had
to
make
that
adjustment
of
the
days
because
of
another
city
that
he
was
involved
in
he'll
come
so
so
we
we
just
did
it
with
Alaska
the
attorney
for
staff
and
schedule
and
stuff.
You
know
first.
D
A
L
Ahead,
I
just
want
to
thank
Miss
Lewis
for
organizing
this
RFP.
She
did
a
great
job
in
putting
it
all
together
for
us
for,
for
us
to
review
and
I
want
to
thank
all
everyone
who
responded
to
the
RFP
all
the
firms
that
this
is.
We
can
say
it's
not,
but
this
is
one
of
the
biggest
decisions
that
we're
gonna
have
to
make
as
a
board
and
for
the
what's
best
for
the
the
citizens
of
Tarpon
Springs.
L
So
there's
a
lot
of
pressure
on
us
that
we
can't
say
that
there's
not,
and
this
is
a
change
from
a
multi-decade
representation.
So
there's
a
lot
on
our
plate
and
you
all
are
great
applicants.
So
just
thank
you
all
for
coming
in
and
speaking.
O
Just
want
to
let
me
also
thank
everybody
for
coming,
and
you
know
I've
I've
enjoyed
it.
I
think
it
is
also
a
very
good
representation.
O
At
the
same
time,
I
think
you,
you
guys
or
whoever
we
choose
will
be
working
with
a
very
strong
board
as
well.
We
have
Direction
and
I
think
the
cities
in
in
good
shape,
with
with
whomever
we
choose
and
with
our
decision
making
and
I
I
do
appreciate
all
the
time
and
effort
that
everyone's
put
into
it.
So
thank
you.
A
Commission,
according
to
everything
else,
okay,
what
what
I
was?
First
of
all,
thank
you
all
very
much
and
and
then
the
other
two
firms
that
were
here
as
well.
What
I'm
going
to
ask
this
commission
to
do
again
if
you've
got
any
questions
or
clarifications?
Please
contact
the
firms
they're
in
the
packet.
The
phone
numbers
are
in
the
packets
also
as
a
reminder,
especially
for
the
City
Attorney
Services
they're,
not
just
the
City
attorney
The
Firm.
That
we
select
is
just
not
the
firm
for
the
city
commission.