►
Description
House Commerce Committee- February 15, 2022- House Hearing Room 1
A
A
A
A
A
B
Good
morning,
everyone
it's
time
for
y'all
to
conclude
the
conversation
of
how
awesome
your
valentine
date
was
last
night
and
it's
time
for
us
to
get
commercial
in
here
it
is
february
15th.
This
is
the
full
commerce
committee
I'll
be
your
host
this
morning,
I'm
kevin
vaughn
and
we
are
now
in
session.
Mr
clark,
would
you
please
call
that
roll.
B
B
B
D
You,
mr
chairman,
we're
off
to
a
good
start
members,
so
this
piece
of
legislation
that's
in
front
of
you.
We
presented
this
in
business
and
utilities
last
year
when
we
presented
this
bill,
it
induced
wailing
and
gnashing
of
teeth,
created,
stress
and
tension,
and
I
agreed
to
roll
the
bill
to
this
year
to
allow
all
parties
to
work
on
it
by
the
fact
that
I'm
in
front
of
you
right
now
means
all
parties
did
work
on
it,
because
we've
passed
out
of
the
subcommittee.
D
This
is
a
a
collaboration
between
tml
at
t
and
verizon
related
to
small
cell
sites
back
in
2018.
Many
of
us
were
here
when
we
passed
the
competitive
wireless
broadband
investment
deployment
and
safety
act
of
2018.
When
we
passed
that
a
couple
of
months
later,
the
fcc
issued
a
new
order
which
differed
from
state
law.
So
what
this
piece
of
legislation
does
is
puts
us
more
in
line
with
the
fcc
order,
and
it
does
five
things
specifically.
D
Mr
chairman
of
committee
and
I'll
read
these
and
be
very
brief,
allows
for
the
differentiation
of
small
cell
providers
under
an
aesthetics
plan,
which
is
which
is
significant
for
a
community
like
farragut
or
collierville,
or
franklin
or
brentwood
communities
like
that
across
our
state.
It
changes
the
fee
structure
which
again,
everyone
was
an
agreement
to
it,
allows
for
a
one-time
installation.
Fee
allows
for
an
annual
fleet
a
fee
regarding
right-of-ways,
and
then
it
clarifies
items
related
to
the
allowable
size
of
the
small
cell
facility
box.
It
also
reduces
the
maximum
height
of
the
polls.
D
B
All
righty,
thank
you,
chairman
zachary,
and
we
appreciate
your
diligence
in
working
with
this
issue.
I
can
tell
you
that
when
you
are
not
expecting
some
cabinetry
or
a
facility
to
show
up
in
front
of
your
home
and
suddenly
one
day
it
is,
it
can
be
a
shock,
but
we
also
understand
the
fact
that
people
like
an
ample
supply
of
bars
on
their
phones.
So
thank
you
for
navigating
the
treacherous
waters
that
this
this
had
so
do
we
have
any
questions
on
the
amendment
any
questions
on
the
amendment
for
chairman
zachary.
B
If
not,
I
will
let
we
will
call
the
question
because
I
see
no,
I
see
no
questions
for
chairman
zachary,
so
all
those
in
favor
of
amendment
zero
one,
three,
two
four
two
please
signify
by
saying
aye.
B
He
knows
the
eyes
have
it,
so
we
are
back
on
the
bill.
The
amendment
makes
the
bill,
so
anybody
saving
questions
for
this
good
thing,
all
those
in
favor
of
passing
house
bill
170
on
to
finance,
please
signify
by
saying
aye,
and
you
know
you're,
headed
off
to
finance
chairman
zachary.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Not
right.
D
Sure
they
do.
Mr
chairman,
thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
committee.
I
do
have
an
amendment.
Thank
you
committee.
I
do
have
an
an
amendment
which
is
drafting
code,
one
three,
three,
four,
two.
B
Two
have
that
similar.
So
two
have
a
similar
amendment.
I
have
a
motion.
Do
I
have
a
second?
We
are.
You
are
now
in.
Oh
excuse
me.
B
Outstanding
that
amendment
requires
no
action,
because
it's
traveling
with
our
bill.
Thank
you,
chairman
moon,
for
being
for
being
ahead
of
the
game
there.
But
anyway
we
have
an
amended
bill.
It
is
house
bill
1867,
so
share
with
us.
What
happens
here.
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
members
in
committee,
I'll
I'll
be
brief,
and
if
there
are
any
questions
I'll
be
glad
to
elaborate
further
over
the
last
23
months,
we
have
dealt
with
obviously
a
worldwide
pandemic,
and
everyone
knows
what
we've
gone
through.
Our
frontline
healthcare
workers
have
worked
diligently
for
23
months,
12
months,
roughly
without
a
vaccine,
and
for
the
last
11
months,
they've
had
a
vaccine
available.
D
states,
such
as
new
jersey,
delaware,
connecticut
massachusetts,
new
york
states
that
are
blue,
where
red
state
states
that
are
blue
have
begun,
removing
mandates,
removing
mass
requirements
moving
back
to
normal.
Unfortunately,
the
federal
government
has
issued
a
cms
mandate
for
our
frontline
health
care
workers
who
have
served
so
diligently.
Many
of
them
they've
had
the
opportunity
to
get
the
vaccine.
Many
of
them
already
have
have
had
covid,
which,
according
to
the
cdc,
is
having
coveted
natural
immunity
six
times
stronger
than
that
of
the
vaccine.
That
was
a
report
that
was
issued
on
january
19th.
D
So
with
that
being
said,
mr
chairman,
to
punish
our
health
care
workers
who,
for
whatever
reason,
choose
not
to
get
the
vaccine,
be
it
a
medical
condition
or
religious
exemption
is
unacceptable.
There
are
health
care
providers
across
the
state
that
are
denying
religious,
religious
exemptions
which
could
lend
itself
to
title
seven
implications.
D
I
have
spreadsheets
and
emails
here
from
those
health
care
workers
across
the
state
who
have
emailed
me
were
received
over
the
last
couple
of
months
over
300
emails
from
healthcare
workers
whose
exemptions
have
been
denied
and
they
have
been
fired
because
they
choose
not
to
get
the
vaccine
according
to
the
cdc
director
on
august
5th,
these
the
covet
vaccine
does
nothing
to
stop
transmission.
That's
according
to
the
cdc
that
has
been
lifted
up
as
the
gold
standard
for
most
in
this
country.
D
So
if
we're
going
to
take
them
as
the
gold
standard,
they
said
on
august
5th
that
the
covet
vaccine
does
not
stop
transmission.
So
then,
why
would
we
punish
our
frontline
health
care
workers
and
deny
exemptions
because
they
choose,
for
whatever
reason
not
to
get
the
vaccine,
so
this
piece
of
legislation
simply
says
related
to
covet
19
related
to
the
cms
mandate.
D
This
is
only
applicable
as
long
as
that
cms
mandate
is
standing
that
any
medical
or
religious
exemption,
that
is,
that
is
presented
by
a
health
care
worker,
must
be
accepted
period
of
in
the
story.
The
medical
exemption
must
be
signed
by
a
doctor.
The
religious
exemption.
The
language
in
here
follows
title
vii
and
they
must
submit
a
statement
for
a
sincerely
held
religious
belief
in
order
to
get
that
exemption.
So
all
this
has
to
be
done.
In
writing.
D
We
have
had
numerous
conversations
with
the
tha,
as
I
said
in
subcommittee,
I'm
not
gonna
in
the
civil
sub
and
civil
full,
I'm
not
going
to
say
they
support
the
bill,
but
they
are
good
with
the
language
they've
collaborated.
We've
worked
with
our
speaker.
We've
worked
with
the
governor's
office.
Worked:
the
department
of
health,
the
bottom
line
with
this
piece
of
legislation
it
will
save
health
care
workers,
jobs.
There's
been
some
questions
from
people
on
the
committee.
Is
it
perfect?
D
No
do
I
wish
we
could
go
further
absolutely,
but
this
takes
this
takes
a
significant
step
in
protecting
the
jobs
of
our
frontline
health
care
workers
who,
for
whatever
reason,
choose
not
to
get
the
vaccine,
and
this
will
protect
their
jobs.
So
with
that,
mr
chairman,
I'll,
be
glad
to
answer
any
questions.
B
Thank
you,
chairman,
zachary,
make
sure
if
anybody
has
any
questions
for
chairman
zachary,
that
you
get
ben's
attention
so
that
we'll
have
a
record
of
it.
Thank
you
for
your
working
with
the
tha
on
this
chairman
zachary.
I
know
that
my
personal
feelings
on
this
matter
is
I'm
I'm
suffering
from
covet
fatigue
and
it
seems
like
the
longer
time,
goes
on
and
more
data
that
we
get.
B
We
were
operating
out
of
an
abundance
of
caution,
but
sometimes
we
we
were,
as
I've
said
before,
we
hugged
the
puppy
too
hard
because
we
loved
it
so
much
and
and
it
was
uncomfortable
and
so
that's
kind
of
the
way
I
feel
about
a
lot
of
our
actions
with,
with
the
benefit
of
hindsight,
obviously,
with
the
benefit
of
hindsight,
so
I
know
that
I've
got
representative
powell
has
a
question
for
you.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
guess
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
a
debate
with
you
on
your
opening
remarks.
You
know
have
some
difference
of
opinion
there,
but
I
did
have
a
question
about
the
specifics
of
the
language
of
the
amendment.
F
So
if
I'm
a
patient,
I'm
at
one
of
these
facilities,
is
there
anything
for
me
to
know
that
somebody
that
is
providing
care
to
me
has
filed
one
of
these
exemptions
and
might
not
be
adequately
vaccinated
against
cover
19.
F
Because
my
concern
here
is
for
the
consumer
and
the
patients
of
the
state
who
might
be
exposed.
F
D
Chairman
zachary,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
in
terms
of
each
facility.
That's
up
to
them.
I
know
some
facilities
based
on
what
nurses
have
told
me.
This
is
just
the
feedback.
I've
gotten
some
of
them
on
their
name
tags,
they're
they're,
clearly
indicated
whether
they're,
vaccinated
or
not,
or
they
have
to
wear
masks
whatever
it
may
be.
So
that's
that's!
That's
not
addressed
in
this
bill,
that's
per
facility
and
then
in
terms
of
risk
of
patience
and
transmission.
D
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
so
just
to
be
clear
in
your
language.
It's
silent
on
that
point.
If
facilities
still
want
to
have
identifying
information
to
show
that
people
have
not
chosen
to
be
vaccinated,
your
bill
does
not
restrict
that.
Is
that
correct.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
chairman
zachary
for
bringing
this
forward
the
vaccination
and
it's
a
good
bill.
First
of
all
I
was
vaccinated.
I
was
had
both
shots.
It
was
boosted
still
got
covered,
so
it's
because
somebody
has
a
vaccination,
doesn't
mean
that
they're
not
going
to
get
it
or
or
spread
it,
and
so
I've
been
through
it
and
now
I
have
the
antibodies,
but
I
think
this
is
a
good
bill.
G
E
I
did
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thank
you,
mr
sponsor
question.
On
penalties.
Are
there
any
penalties
in
here
for
either
the
employer
or
if
the
person
were
to
make
a
claim
of
exemption,
and
then
it's
been
falsified
to
some
degree?
Does
this
bill
address
that.
D
D
Oh
mr
I'll,
come
back
to
your
question
quickly,
but
mr
chairman
and
committee
also
something
I've
received,
probably
25
to
30
calls
from
student
nurses.
I
guess
there's
probably
a
more
official
term
than
that.
Those
who
are
going
through
clinicals
that
are
approaching
their
last
year
and
many
facilities
are
denying
them
their
last
year
because
they're
not
because
of
the
vaccine,
so
the
students
are
protected
in
this
and
well
as
well.
Just
as
I
was
skimming
through
this
later,
I
want
to
make
sure
I
get
you
to
the
right
area
here.
D
I
should
have
had
it
marked
later
good
grief,
so
in
turn,
2e
details
out
the
violate
the
penalty,
so
there's
a
ten
thousand
dollar
penalty
for
any
violation
of
this,
and
oh
here
it
is
page
three
section:
two
denial
of
requests
for
an
exemption
must
be
in
writing.
So
if
someone
denies
an
exemption
request,
it
must
be
in
writing.
The
person
then
takes
that
denial
in
writing
takes
it
to
the
attorney
general.
He
refuses
reviews
the
case
and
then
his
discretion
can
issue
that
penalty,
so
the
denial
must
be
in
writing.
D
E
I
want
is
there,
what
is
the
dollar
amount,
that
a
person
could
be
civilly
liable
for
this.
D
E
Falsely
said
that
they
had
this
religious
exemption,
is
there
any
penalty
to
that
person,
or
how
do
we
verify
that?
That's
a
true
statement
by
them
that
they've
just
signed
and
given
over
etc.
B
Well,
I
can.
I
can
tell
you
later
that
it's
sometimes
it's
difficult
to
see
folks
heart
with
regards
to
what
they
truly
believe.
That's
a
that's!
That's
one
for
all
of
us
to
try
to
stress
to
be
better
off,
but
chairman
zachary.
What
say
you
that
yeah.
D
In
regards
to
the
medical
exemptions,
it's
got
to
be
signed
by
this
by
a
physician,
so
medical
exemption
is
a
non-issue
regarding
the
religious
exemption
you
get
in
there's
title
seven
implications
related
to
a
religious
exemption.
So
we
took
the
language
of
title
seven
because
we're
taking
title
seven,
seven
language
and
then
taking
it
a
step
further
by
requiring
the
exemption,
be
granted.
So
point
number
two
on
page
two:
yes
ma'am
point
number
two
page
two:
it
says
that
they
must
attest
in
writing
regarding
a
sincerely
held
religious
belief,
so
an
exam.
D
So
there
is
a
legal
definition
and
there
is
a
sincerely
held
religious
belief
is
defined
in
title
vii,
and
so
that's
where-
and
there
are
also
limitations
in
title
vii-
about
questioning
anybody's
request
for
a
religious
exemption.
So
you
can't
go
further
than
this.
There
is
language
related
to
sincerely
held
religious
belief
and
then
reasonable
accommodations.
We've
all
heard
that
over
and
over
again
that's
all
pulled
into
title
seven
and
so
that's
more
federal
than
state.
So
we
simply
took
that
language
you
have
to
you
have
to
be
under.
B
Thank
you,
mr
sponsor
representative,
hodges.
B
B
D
Chairman
zachary,
thank
you,
mr
good
question,
so
point
one
page
two
that
language
you
may
be
looking
at
an
older
amendment.
It
says
a
licensed
physician
is
listed
under
title
62
title
63,
chapter
6
and
9.,
so
you're
correct,
like
a
you
know,
a
vet
or
something
could
not
sign
up
your
medical
exemption.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
G
D
J
Thing,
mr
sponsor,
thank
you
very
much
for
bringing
this
bill.
I
I
really
love
it
when
our
pes
and
nurse
practitioners-
I'm
sorry
physicians,
assistants,
pas
and
nurse
practitioners
included
in
licensed
professional.
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
That's
a
good
question.
Representative
lynn.
I
did
not
dive
deep
into
the
tight
into
title,
63
chapter
six
and
nine,
so
I
don't
know
listed
under
physician.
It's
child
it's
time
for
those
who
want
to
know
it's
title,
63
chapter
six
and
nine,
so
that
would
detail
out
those
who
could
sign
for
a
medical
exemption.
B
Now
I
see
now
I'm
going
to
close
my
eyes
because
I
see
there's
no
more
questions.
Anybody
object
to
calling
the
question
any
question
objections.
We
are
now
voting
on
house
bill
18,
yet.
B
G
On
us,
mr
miss
chairman,
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
your
eyes
were
closed.
You
know,
but
but
in
all
sincerity
this,
if
a
child
has
a
religious
exemption,
does
the
child
have
to
sign
that
document,
or
would
it
be
the
parent
said
at
15
years
old,
16
years
old,
who
would
venture
out
in
on
behalf
of
the
child.
D
G
D
C
B
The
eyes
have,
it
knows:
please
register
your
no
with
the
clerk
and
just
for
a
brief
moment,
I'm
going
to
back
up
a
little
bit
and
I'm
going
to
allow
chairman
faison
just
a
bit
of
personal
privilege
here.
Thank
you,
mr
chair
and
committee.
I
don't
know
if
you
know
this
this,
but.
A
Chairman
zachary
has
a
little
fan
club
in
here
today
in
this
committee.
She
is
here
making
sure
he's
all
right
since
he
had
that
wreck
and
nursing
him
back
to
health.
Y'all
welcome
his
beautiful
wife
right
here,
holly.
D
Yes,
chairman
zachary,
thank
you,
mr
chairman
committee,
since
my
wife
is
here,
I
do
appreciate
you
voting
these
bills
out
that
have
been
embarrassing
to
a
fail
in
front
of
her.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
committee,.
B
I
was
going
to
say
that
that's
that's
some
great
pressure
pressure
performance
there,
chairman
zachary
next
up
on
our
calendar
house,
bill
1652
by
chairman
howell.
A
B
Yes,
sir,
I
believe
you
we
have
several
the
way
I
read
them.
Does
the
last
one
clean
up
the
first
two?
Yes,
it
does
alrighty.
So
that
is
amendment
zero
one,
three,
three,
seven
two.
That
is
what
I
have
alrighty
we
are
in
sync,
please
share
with
us.
What's
on
your
heart
today,
chairman?
How
thank.
A
You,
mr
chairman,
the
amendment
excludes
banking
institutions
that
are
insured
by
the
fdic
or
the
national
credit
union
administration,
also
groups
regulated
by
the
public
utilities,
commission,
fcc
or
the
federal
energy
commission
and
all
those
insurance
agencies
under
title
56.
B
The
way
chairman
hal,
let's
get
this
bill
in
the
proper
posture,
so
we
can
start
talking
about
your
bill.
Do
we
have
a
motion
in
a
second
as
all
right?
We
have
the
motion
and
second
on
the
amendment
zero
one,
three,
three,
seven,
two,
all
those
in
favor
of
amendment
three,
please
signify
by
saying
aye
aye
any
opposed
hearing.
None
amendment
is
on
the
bill.
Now
talk
to
us
about
the
bill.
A
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
This
bill
came
to
me
from
a
constituent
who
I
was
having
a
conversation
with
and
expressing
their
frustration
about,
being
subscribed,
unknowingly
to
situations
and
no
way
to
unsubscribe.
A
B
Chairman
chairman
dan
howell,
soon
to
be
considered
a
prince
among
men
by
many
by
many
subscribers
who
are
unwittingly
trapped
with
no
way
of
contacting
the
people
who
are
withdrawing
money
out
of
their
either
checking
or
credit
card
account.
I've
got
a
question
on
the
bill.
Any
position
I've
seen
none,
so
we
are
going
to
call
the
question
for
house
bill
1652
to
send
it
on
the
calendar
and
rules
all
those
in
favor,
please
signify
by
saying
aye
any
knows
hearing
none
you're
off
to
calvin
rules.
Chairman
hal.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
B
Thanks
for
staying
with
us
chairman
hal
has
exhibited
the
patience
of
job.
He
has
absolutely
worked
through
this
and
amended
and
amended
and
amended
and
working
with
all
his
people.
So
we
appreciate
that
next
up
is
house
bill
1946
by
our
own
chairman,
haston.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
The
origins
of
this
bill
came
from
a
letter
I
received
a
few
years
ago
from
a
real
estate
company
out
of
state
real
estate
company
cleverly
named
deal
estate
offering
ten
thousand
dollars
for
fifty
acres
and,
and
so
that's
where
the
origins
of
this
bill
came
from
what
it
does
is.
It
offers
consumer
protection
to
those
who
have
entered
into
a
contract
to
sell
real
estate
via
an
unsolicited
offer
through
the
mail.
I
did
not
agree
to
this
contract
and
try
to
get
out
of
it
later.
K
B
K
I
think
that
what
we're
looking
at
is
is
once
that
we
have
that
letter
received
back
from
the
offerer.
That
would
be
enough
to
stipulate
that
this
is
proof
of
how
this
contract
was
entered
into
in
the
stipulations.
It
says
the
offer
sends
a
mail
letter
to
the
offeree
that
confirms
receipt
of
the
signed
agreement
or
contract
describes.
The
offeree's
right
to
cancel
the
agreement
or
contract
describes
the
matter
by
which
the
offeree
may
cancel
and
states
the
date
by
which
the
referee
must
cancel.
I'm
not
for
sure.
B
And
it's
my
understanding
that
contracts
aren't
recorded
at
the
recorder's
office
anyway,
though
they
only
handle
the
deeds
and
easements,
and
things
such
as
that,
so
I
don't
know
how
we
would
have
a
a
county
recorder
handle
such
a
case,
but
a
deed
would
follow
that
right.
The
deed
would
follow.
I'm
fine
all
right!
Thank
you.
Sir.
B
I'd
heard
someone
call
for
the
question
down
there,
but
before
I
saw
vice
chairman
bricken's
hand,
we
are
going
to
honor
that
call
for
the
question
all
those
in
favor
of
passing
house
bill
1946
on
the
calendar
rules,
please
to
five
by
saying
aye
any
opposed
hearing.
None.
B
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
committee.
This
bill
1727
is
a
bill
offered
by
the
comptroller
of
the
treasury.
First
and
foremost,
this
bill
makes
government
work
better
by
updating
the
utility
laws
and
streamlining
processes
for
said
utilities.
H
Two
specific
items
that
it
addresses
is
one
it
would
require
water
utilities
to
put
their
water
loss
reports
in
their
annual
information
report
instead
of
in
their
audit.
This
just
makes
the
comptroller's
job
a
little
bit
easier
for
them
and,
secondly,
it
addresses
a
loophole
in
the
training
for
those
utility
board.
Commissioners
right
now,
they're
required
to
take
certain
amounts
of
training,
but
they're
also
able
to
run
for
re-election
or
be
reappointed
without
taking
such
training.
So
this
just
fixes
or
closes
that
loophole,
and
with
that
I
take
any
questions
from
you.
B
G
Chairman
representative,.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Mr
speaker,
I
can
have
someone
from
the
comptrollers
come
up
if
you'd
like
to
hear
what
specifics.
B
I'm
sorry
I'll
be
right
with
you,
mr
speaker,
but
representative.
We
don't
have
anybody
on
our
list
to
testify,
so
we'll
be
counting
on
you
for
all
information
with
regards
to
this
bill.
Speak
speaker,
johnston.
B
Seeing
no
other
questions
from
our
panel.
We've
got
a
question
on
the
bill.
All
those
in
favor
of
sending
house
bill
1727
on
to
calendar
and
rules,
please
signify
by
saying
aye
aye
any
opposed
hearing.
None
1727
will
be
on
its
way
to
calendar
and
rules,
and
that
concludes
our
scheduled
calendar
for
today.
But
that
does
not
conclude
our
time
together.
B
Representative
gillespie:
are
you
causing
problems
up
here
on
the
diocese?
Please
we
we
do
have
a
sergeant-at-arms
down
here.
Thank
you.
We
will
conclude
our
tour
of
the
utility
regulatory
landscape
by
hearing
from
the
tennessee
public
utilities.
Commission
folks
today,
I
myself
have
been
have
learned
a
lot.
B
I'm
sure
that
it
some
folks
who
knew
more
than
I
did
have
had
things
refreshed
in
their
minds,
but
just
so
that
we
know
just
a
word
of
reminder
about
what's
going
on
in
the
real
world,
while
we're
talking
about
utilities
is
that
from
the
home
front
city
of
memphis
mayor
this
weekend
floated
the
idea
of
the
sale
of
the
largest
public
utility
in
the
country
in
an
effort
to
to
provide
provide
capital
to
make
investments
for
underground
utilities
in
an
effort
to
deal
with
power
outages-
and
might
I
remind
our
body
that
the
municipal
power
association
tva
did
point
out
the
fact
that
if
that
was
indeed
the
case,
they
would
not
be
regulated
by
tva
and
there
is
not
a
body
that
would
regulate
them
under
that
situation.
B
So
it
has
been
timely
that
we've
had
these
discussions
based
upon
what's
happening
in
the
world
around
us,
and
so
with
that
we
are
going
to
get
to
know
our
folks
who
regulate
private
excuse
me
well,
it's
privately
owned,
even
though
they
may
be
held
by
a
publicly
traded
company.
But
I
guess
we
should
say
investor-owned
utilities,
that's
the
right
nomenclature.
B
I
Good
morning,
chairman
vaughn
and
committee
members,
I'm
earl
taylor,
executive
director
of
the
tennessee
public
utilities,
commission,
tim
swartz,
director
of
communication
and
joe
shirley,
director
of
utility
audit
and
compliance
are
joining
me
here
at
the
table.
Kelly
grams,
our
general
counsel
and
david
foster,
director
of
our
utility
division,
are
here
as
well.
I
All
that
experience
coincides
with
our
over
100
years
of
statutory
history
and
utility
oversight.
With
that
said,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
tim
and
joe
tim
will
share
more
about
our
history,
our
structure
and
our
jurisdiction,
and
then
joe
will
provide
some
detail
regarding
the
rate
setting
process
in
its
unique
complexities.
Tim.
C
Thank
you,
earl
chairman
bond
members
of
the
committee.
It's
a
pleasure
to
be
here
today
and
we
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
share
more
about
our
role
as
it
relates
to
utilities
and
the
landscape
that
utilities
have
in
tennessee
I'll
start
out
by
talking
about
the
the
history
of
the
commission,
every
state
has
a
utility
commission
we're.
We
are
no
different.
C
C
We
have
a
unique
structure.
We
were
originally
established
in
1883
to
regulate
railroads,
to
make
sure
the
rates
that
the
railroads
charged
were
just
and
reasonable
that
same
issue
continued
as
technology
evolved
and
industrial
revolution.
That
sort
of
thing
when
we
utilities
came
into
fruition
and
we
became
the
railroad
and
public
utilities
commission.
C
So,
just
like
the
rail
with
utilities,
we
were
making
sure
that
those
rates
were
just
unreasonable
and,
as
you
see
on
this,
this
slide
here
I
mean
the
times
change
and,
and
the
utility
commission
has
changed
structurally
and
functionally
in
1996
we
became
the
the
tennessee
regulatory
authority.
C
Previously,
the
commissioners
were
elected
statewide
with
the
change
in
96,
they
became
appointed,
they
were
appointed
by
the
legislature
and
the
governor's
office
and
then
more
recently
in
2012,
we
were
modified
yet
again
and
went
from
a
full-time
directors
to
part-time
commissioners
and
creation
of
an
executive
director
to
handle
the
day-to-day
operations.
C
C
Two
are
appointed
by
the
governor
two
are
appointed
by
lieutenant
governor
mcnally
and
two
are
appointed
by
speaker.
Sexton
and
one
is
a
joint
appointment
by
all
three
appointing
authorities.
C
C
And
with
that
change
in
2012
is
earl
taylor
who's
to
my
left.
He
has
been
our
one
and
only
executive
director
handling
our
day-to-day
operations,
and
I
have
to
say
that
we've
had
a
lot
of
continuity
with
his
presence,
and
things
have
been
working
really
well
under
his
leadership
and
hope
that
continues
moving
forward.
C
C
We
have
48
filled
positions
currently
so
we're
a
smaller
agency,
but
with
a
lot
of
responsibility,
and
we
are
self-funded
by
the
utilities
that
we
have
jurisdiction
over.
We
also
have
some
programs
that
are
funded
through
program
fees,
and
we
also
receive
some
federal
grants
to
provide
some
delegated
federal
responsibilities.
C
And
we
have
a
broad
statute
that
defines
what
is
a
utility
in
this
state.
This
slide
covers
just
about
everything
you
can
think
of,
and
then
our
statute
also
gets
a
little
more
specific.
We
describe
what
exactly
is
a
utility
for
purposes
of
the
utility
commission's
jurisdiction.
So,
as
chairman
mentioned
at
the
beginning,
we
are
primarily
involved
with
investor-owned
utilities.
C
C
Some
of
the
investor-owned
utilities,
the
larger
ones
that
we
have
jurisdiction
over-
include
kingsport
power,
atmos,
natural
gas,
piedmont,
natural
gas,
chattanooga,
gas
and
tennessee
american
water.
We
also
have
a
number
of
smaller
water
waste
water,
gas
utilities
that
are
across
the
state.
So
we
cover
urban
and
rural
areas
of
tennessee
and
we
provide
service,
or
these
utilities
provide
service
to
over
a
half,
a
million
households
and
63
000
businesses
and
institutions.
Statewide.
C
The
the
municipal
systems
or
utility
districts
and
the
statute
also
does
not
give
us
jurisdiction
over
broadband,
although,
with
some
of
our
telecommunication
institutional
knowledge
from
prior
years,
we
do
serve
as
a
resource
to
tasser
and
ecd
as
they
try
to
provide
the
the
mapping
for
broadband
and
administering
state
grants.
C
So
we
do
have
limited
telecommunications
oversight
anymore
2009.
There
was
market
regulation
that
was
passed,
which
really
kind
of
changed.
I
think
with
the
internet
and
everything
else
really
taking
off.
There
wasn't
as
much
of
a
need
for
for
the
commission
to
set
the
telecommunication
rates,
but
we
do
retain
some
jurisdiction.
We
resolve
disputes
between
the
the
carriers
and
we
review
interconnection
agreements
and
then,
from
time
to
time
when
regions
exhaust
their
area
codes.
We
are
we
participate
in
that
process
to
add
new
area
codes.
C
We
also
are
the
delegated
authority
for
doing
gas
pipeline
safety
inspections
across
the
state,
there's
over
69
000
miles
of
transmission
and
distribution
lines
with
service
to
over
1.4
million
customers.
The
commission
has
six
dedicated
inspectors
on
staff
and
we
do
over
700
inspections
a
year.
C
I
might
add
also
that
if
it's
a
municipal
system
or
a
cooperative
or
a
utility
district
that
provides
natural
gas
service,
that
is
the
only
way
the
utility
commission
would
have
any
the
way
we
would
touch.
Those
utilities
would
be
through
these
gas
inspections.
Otherwise
we
have
no
jurisdiction
there
over
those
utilities.
C
And
we
also
provide
some
other
services,
such
as,
if
cable
operators,
if
they're
seeking
a
statewide
franchise,
we
review
those
and
provide
those
approvals.
We
also
provide
administrative
and
investigative
support
to
the
underground
utility
damage
enforcement
board
that
is
affiliated
with
the
811
non-profit
call
before
you
dig.
So
it's
a
permissive
complaint
driven
program
designed
to
improve
public
safety
and
reduce
underground
utility
damages.
C
We
think
it's
been
working
really
well,
thus
far.
It's
about
we're
about
five
or
six
years
into
this
program,
and
we
also
do
do
not
call
we
regulate
or
manage
the
telemarketers
in
the
state,
and
we
also
provide
services
for
the
hearing
impaired,
so
they
may
communicate
where
traditional
methods
won't
work.
B
C
Most
most
people
do
call
me
anyway
for
that,
but
we
don't
handle
spoofing.
We
do
have
a
sister
agency
over
in
the
ag's
office
that
handles
a
lot
of
the
spoofing
matters,
but
if
it's
involves
a
telemarketer
who's,
not
following
the
do
not
call
list,
then
we
can
take
an
enforcement
action.
All.
L
Well,
thank
you.
Thank
you,
tim
and
good
morning,
chairman
and
members.
I
just
want
to
talk
with
you
briefly
and
kind
of
focus
on
some
of
the
more
core
responsibilities
that
the
that
the
commission
has
and
kind
of
go
into
those
you
can
see
from
the
slide
that
we
generally
have
four
major
areas
of
responsibility.
L
The
first
one
I'll
address
is
our
issuance
of
certificates
of
public
convenience
and
necessities
or
ccns,
as
we
call
them,
and
essentially,
if
an
investor
owned
utility
wants
to
provide
a
public
utility
service
in
the
state,
they
have
to
come
to
the
commission
to
get
authority
to
provide
that
service,
and
what
we'll
do
is
we'll
take
a
look
at
the
applicant's
technical,
managerial
and
financial
capabilities
to
serve
the
public
need
and
assuming
that
all
that
checks
out
then
ccn
is
issued
to
that
utility
and
the
granting
of
that
ccn
essentially
gives
that
utility
an
exclusive
franchise
to
serve.
L
That
particular
area
that
they're
authorized
to
operate
in
the
next
thing
on
the
list
is
our
rate
setting
authority
and
I'm
going
to
go
into
that
in
in
a
lot
more
detail
here
in
just
a
minute.
So
I'll
jump
over
that
one
for
a
second,
the
third
on
the
list
is
enforcement.
Of
course
the
commission
has
the
responsibility
for
enforcing
its
enabling
statutes
and
rules,
and
so
that
is
a
function
that
we
do
and
last
on
the
list
is
our
complaint
resolution
process.
L
Essentially
there's
kind
of
two
categories
here
we
we
may
hear
complaints
from
customers
of
these
investor-owned
utilities
that
we
regulate
occasionally,
but
a
lot
less
frequently.
We
may
have
a
complaint
of
maybe,
if
two
of
our
regulated
utilities
get
into
a
dispute.
There's
a
process
for
these
utility
to
utility
complaints
that
we
may
hear.
That's
a
lot
less
often
what
we
try
to
do
in
all
these
complaint
cases
is
to
try
to
mediate
those
complaints,
first
investigate
and
mediate.
L
If
that
doesn't
work
out,
however,
there
is
a
a
formal
complaint
resolution
process
that
we
would
follow
to
to
resolve
the
matter.
So
I
want
to
get
back
to
our
rate.
Making
authority,
though
that's
kind
of
seems
to
be.
You
know
one
of
our
bread
and
butter
things
that
we
do
and
kind
of
the
primary
focus
of
the
commission
and
a
lot
of
the
concerns
we
there's
essentially
two
tracks.
L
Here
we
have
traditional
rate
making
and
more
recently,
we
have
newer
alternative
rate
making
methodologies
I'm
going
to
cover
both
of
those
and
when
I'm
speaking
of
rate,
making
whether
it's
traditional
rate
making
or
alternative
rate
making.
What
I'm
talking
about.
As
tim
mentioned,
our
investor
on
utilities
serve
around
500
000
households
in
tennessee,
around
63,
000
businesses
and
institutions
across
the
state.
So
when
I'm
talking
about
rate
making,
I'm
talking
about
setting
the
retail
prices
that
those
customers
have
to
pay
for
their
public
utility
services,
so
I
want
to
talk
about
that
process.
L
Now,
our
rate
setting
authority
in
in
that
area
really
only
covers
four
services.
We
set
the
rates
for
electric
natural
gas,
water
and
wastewater
utility
services
for
investor-owned
utilities,
so
when
it
comes
to
any
other
type
of
utility
services
or
any
other
utility
companies,
we
do
not
set
rates.
There
have
any
rate
setting
authority
over
those
services
or
entities
and
generally
this
rate
setting
process
is
started
most
often
by
public
utility
coming
to
the
commission
and
requesting
a
change
in
rates.
Usually
a
price
increase,
and
that's
that's
generally,
how
it
happens.
L
Although
the
commission,
we
do
monitor
the
costs
and
earnings
of
the
utilities
that
we
regulate
and
the
commission
does
have
power.
L
If,
after
a
hearing,
the
commission
determines
that
the
current
prices
are
unjust
or
unreasonable,
the
commission
has
the
power
to
reduce
rates
that
has
happened
more
in
the
distant
past,
but
it's
something
that
really
doesn't
come
about
too
often,
but
that
is
within
the
commission's
authority
to
do
so,
and
when
we're
talking
about
rates,
you
know
just
and
reasonable
rates,
that's
kind
of
the
pole
star
the
standard
that
we
use
to
determine
what
rates
should
be.
L
And
of
course,
then
we
start
running
afoul
of
you
know
these
constitutional
takings
provisions
and
things
of
that
nature.
So
there
is
this
framework
that
we
have
to
stay
within,
but
and
within
that
framework,
though,
there's
a
lot
of
judgment,
of
course,
that
we
have
to
exercise,
there's
a
lot
of
issues
to
be
considered,
and
so
in
doing
that,
the
commission
really
has
to
rely
on
its
collective
rate,
making
experience
and
specialized
knowledge
of
the
industry
to
determine
what
these
rates
should
be.
L
We
we
have
to
balance
the
customer's
interest
in
receiving
public
utility
services
at
reasonable
prices
against
the
shareholders,
interest
of
making
a
fair
profit
on
their
investments
in
the
enterprise,
and
so
those
are
kind
of
the
competing
interests
that
we
have
to
balance
in
this
process,
and
that
really
is
like,
I
said
one
of
the
focal
points
of
the
regulatory
work
that
we
do
with
regard
to
the
process
that
we
use
to
set
rates.
The
commission
is
is
a
uapa
agency,
so
our
process
is
governed
by
the
uniform
administrative
procedures
act.
L
L
We
also
allow,
under
that
process
any
other
interested
party
to
intervene
and
participate.
In
the
rate
hearing
here,
the
consumer
advocate
division
of
the
attorney
general's
office.
They
most
often
participate
in
these
rate
proceedings
to
represent
the
residential
and
business
customers
of
the
utility.
That's
requesting
a
rate
change,
there's
also
other
interested
parties
that
may
less
frequently
intervene.
For
example,
we've
had
manufacturers,
associations
and
other
consumer
groups
like
that
to
intervene
and
participate
in
hearings
now
as
a
part
of
the
process.
L
The
parties,
during
the
rate
hearing
they're,
allowed
an
opportunity
to
gather
information
from
each
other
through
the
discovery
process,
but
once
they're
that
is
done
and
the
parties
submit
all
of
their
testimony
and
exhibits
and
support
for
their
positions.
L
That's
when
I
will
have
a
panel
of
five
of
the
seven
commissioners
will
sit
and
hear
the
all
of
the
proof
in
a
formal
rate
hearing
these
rate
hearings
are
given
public
notice,
of
course,
and
any
member
of
the
public
can
also
appear
and
make
comments
as
a
part
of
the
of
the
hearing
process,
and
this
next
slide
will
just
kind
of
give
you
a
diagram,
maybe
of
how
a
rate
case
proceeds
and
if
you
look
at
kind
of
like
the
bottom
right,
two
boxes
there
after
we've
had
the
formal
rate
hearing,
the
commissioners
will
then
convene
a
public
meeting
or
they
will
deliberate
and
decide
the
case
by
majority
vote.
L
Of
course,
the
commission
staff
are
acting
as
advisers
to
the
commissioners
during
this
process.
The
decision
is
then
formalized
into
a
final
written
order
and
any
party
that's
dissatisfied
with
that
order.
May
appeal
from
it
and,
interestingly,
the
commission's
appeals
are
taken
directly
to
the
middle
section
of
the
tennessee
court
of
appeals,
and
then
our
legal
staff
then
would
defend
the
commission's
decision
on
appeal.
L
I
do
also
want
to
mention
here
that
at
any
time,
during
this
process,
the
parties
to
the
case
may
settle
the
matter,
and
so
these
settlements
often
involve
the
utility
entering
into
settlement
agreements
with
the
consumer
advocate
and
any
other
parties
that
are
in
the
case
where
they
essentially
produce
agreed
upon
rates
in
terms
of
services
through
a
settlement
process.
L
They
will
then
present
that
to
the
commission,
the
commission
will
review
the
settlement
and,
if
it's
in
the
public
interest,
the
commission
will
approve
the
settlement
as
a
way
to
resolve
the
matter
without
having
to
go
through
all
of
the
formal
hearing
process.
We
certainly
try
to
encourage
that
process.
The
settlement
process
and
we've
had
a
very
good
track
record
of
cases
being
settled.
Three
of
the
last
four
major
rate
cases
have
ended
in
settlement
now
that
I've
covered
kind
of
the
procedural
parts
of
rape
making.
L
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
the
substantive
aspects
of
rape
making
and
this
really
kind
of
applies
to
both
traditional
and
alternative
rate
making.
But
there
are
several
aspects
to
this.
First
of
all,
the
commission
sets
rates
based
on
a
forward-looking
methodology,
so
we're
taking
forecasts
and
projections
and
trying
to
set
future
rates
that
are
just
and
reasonable
and
with
regard
to
this
forward-looking
methodology,
you
know
there's
several
different
aspects
to
this.
Okay,
so
not
only
is
historical
and
current
information
certainly
relevant.
L
We
need
to
review
that,
but
we
also
have
to
look
into
anticipated
or
expected
cost
drivers
as
well,
and
so
you
know
maybe
a
utilities,
business
plans
for
expansion
due
to
customer
growth
in
its
service
area
or
economic
development
in
its
service
area.
Those
things
must
be
considered
because
that
certainly
can
affect
costs.
L
L
L
That
is
that
we
do
examine,
of
course,
a
lot
of
financial
data
with
regard
to
the
rate
setting
process,
but
it's
much
more
than
just
a
mathematical
exercise,
and
so
we
we
have
to
really
take
a
look
at
the
at
the
individual
utility
and
tailor
the
rate
making
process
to
that
individual
utilities
operations
and
to
the
particular
needs
of
the
of
the
service
area
of
that
utility.
L
But
so
that's
the
background.
Looking
at
the
at
the
rates,
the
the
basic
rate
elements,
of
course,
is
with
with
the
green
circle
there
we
have
to
consider
what
the
utilities
anticipated
revenues
are
going
to
be,
so
you
know
to
determine
whether
or
not
there's
a
revenue
deficiency.
Of
course,
we
have
to
take
a
look
at
what
they're
currently
getting
and
that's
from
all
of
their
customers
from
their
you
know:
residential
customers,
their
business
customers,
they're
even
they're,
very
large
manufacturers
and
industrial
customers.
L
L
Utilities,
you
know,
do
have
to
pay
taxes,
income,
taxes,
payroll
taxes
and,
of
course,
avalorum
or
property
taxes
on
all
of
that
plant
investment
is
another
big
tax
driver,
so
so
that
has
to
be
built
into
the
rates.
Interest
on
debt
is
another
consideration.
L
Most
of
our
utilities
have
a
substantial
amount
of
both
short-term
and
long-term
debt
to
capitalize
the
company
and,
of
course,
the
reasonable
cost
of
that
debt
is
recoverable
from
customers
as
well,
and
then
the
last
big
element
of
rates
that
I
want
to
discuss
is
the
shareholder,
returns
and
shareholder
returns.
L
Of
course,
there's
a
lot
of
judgment,
maybe
that's
being
at
play
here,
but
we're
trying
to
determine
what
is
a
fair
compensation
to
the
shareholders
for
their
investments
in
this
utility
enterprise
and
that's
often
a
pretty
well
debated
issue
when
it
comes
to
these
rate
hearings,
but
we
certainly
do
hear
from
economists
and
other
experts
as
part
of
the
rate
making
process.
Take
that
information
into
consideration
when
we're
trying
to
determine
what
a
fair,
better
return
on
equity
to
the
shareholders
would
be
so
those
are
the
basic
rate
elements,
of
course
the
commission.
L
L
We
have
approved
arms
for
all
of
our
major
utilities,
and
tim
mentioned
some
of
those,
for
example,
piedmont,
atmos,
energy,
chattanooga,
gas,
kingsport
power,
tennessee,
american
water.
They
all
have
arms
that
how
we
have
approved
and
that
are
in
operation
today.
The
arm
plans
really
is
kind
of
falls
into
three
different
types
of
arms.
L
We
have
one
type
of
arm
that
really
kind
of
takes
a
focused
look
on
certain
operational
costs
and
capital
costs,
and
it
kind
of
goes
through
line
item
by
line
item,
and
it
allows
a
company
to
kind
of
track,
a
certain
bucket
of
expenses
or
capital
costs
and
then
recover
those
pure.
Those
specific
costs,
through
periodic
rate,
increases
without
again
having
to
go
through
the
rate
making
process,
and
then
we
have
annual
rate
review
as
another
type
of
arm
and
that's
a
much
more
comprehensive
arm.
L
And
finally,
the
third
type
of
arm
that
we
have
is
would
allow
a
utility
to
present
any
type
of
customized
program
that
it
wants
to
file
with
the
commission
for
our
review
and
approval
with
regard
to
that,
first
type
of
arm.
We're
talking
about
particular
line
item
costs,
whether
it's
operational
or
capital
costs.
B
Excuse
me,
joe,
if
you
don't
mind,
I'm
I've
got
some
questions
and
I
don't
want
the
clock
to
go
out
turn
out
on
us,
so
this
is
gonna
wrap
it
up.
Yeah.
If
you
give
me
a
quick
wrap-up
here
in
about
a
minute
and
then
we've
got
folks
who
have
questions
that
have
built
today.
You
know
some
questions
too,
because
I
think
you
have
purp.
You
have
very
well
demonstrated
the
fact
that
there's
quite
a
bit
that
goes
into
how
you
all
determine
things.
B
So
if
you
could
give
us
a
quick
wrap-up
and
then
we'll
hit
our
questions
and
and
be
done
so.
L
Thank
you
chairman,
and
I
certainly
will
wrap
this
up
in
short
form.
So
with
the
again
these
different
particular
costs
that
could
be
recovered
through
an
arm
could
be
a
utilities.
L
The
system
safe
and
reliable
they
are,
can
also
use
these
arms
to
recover
certain
infrastructure
investments
also
to
recover
certain
eligible
costs
for
economic
development
or
other
non-discretionary
costs
certainly
can
be
recovered
through
these
arms.
I've
already
talked
about
annual
rate
review.
This
essentially
just
demonstrates
how
you
can
you
know
the
requirements
for
getting
into
the
rate
review
and
demonstrates
that
we
do
review
those
and,
if
they
need
modification
over
time,
there's
a
process
for
modifying
those
annual
rate
review
process.
L
So
I
think
that
with
that
I'll
turn
it
back
over
to
to
eufer
and
we'll
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
look.
B
At
that
all
righty,
I'm
gonna
take
chairman's
privilege
here
and
and
ask
a
few,
my
myself
here
and
we
have
heard
from
the
government-owned
utilities
that
that
they're
not
regular,
necessarily
regulated
on
how
much
how
much
retained
earnings
they
hold
within
their
businesses.
Do
y'all
examine
that
with
regards
to
investor
owned,
do
you
all
monitor
and
maintain
the
retained
earnings
from
these
utility
companies.
L
Well,
I
think
our
approach
is
more
or
less
to
determine
what
the
appropriate
authorized
earnings
of
shareholders
should
be
as
a
part
of
the
rate
making
formula
in
determining
just
and
reasonable
rates,
and
so
that
is
an
analysis
that
we
do,
but
we
are
certainly
not
monitoring
or
have
no
really
authority
over
whether
or
not
that
company
is
retaining
those
or
paying
those
earnings
out
in
dividends
to
shareholders.
L
Those
are
company
decisions,
but
we
do
authorize
the
level
the
amount
of
earnings
that
those
shareholders
are
allowed
to
earn
on
the
operation
as
a
part
of
the
rate
making
process.
So.
B
B
We
do
not
understood,
but
I
guess
okay,
and
so
that's
one
of
the
big
differences
that
we're
seeing
there
that
I've
noticed
here
is
that
no
one's
looking
at
how
much
money
these
utilities
are
making
they
look
if
they
are
not
making
we're
concerned,
if
they're
not
making
money
but
nobody's
looking
to
see
if
they're,
making
extraordinary
windfalls
or
profits
but
yet
you're.
Looking
at
that
on
the
you're
keeping
the
lid
on
investor
owned.
L
B
That's
seems
curious
to
me,
but
do
you
agree
that
there's
there's
not
much
different
but
other
other
that
that
elephant
in
the
room
is
there
any
similarities
between
operationally
between
the
non-regulate,
the
utilities
that
you
do
not
regulate
and
the
utilities
that
you
do
regulate.
L
Well,
I
think
when
it
comes
down
to
the
you
know,
the
technical
aspects
of
providing
the
utility
services
there's
certainly
probably
a
lot
of
similarities
with
regard
you
know
to
the
costs
and
the
plant
that's
needed
in
order
to
deliver
that
service,
whether
it's
a
natural
gas
service
or
a
water
or
wastewater
service.
So
I'd
say
that
there's
a
lot
of
things,
maybe
that's
in
common
with
the
you
know,
providing
those
services,
whether
it's
investor
owned
or
any
other
type
of
entity.
L
B
Okay
and
again,
I'm
I'm
trying
to
grasp
holt
of
this
fact
that
investor
owned
faces
more
scrutiny
than
publicly
owned.
Okay.
I
guess,
then,
that
you
know
makes
me
wonder
whether
or
not
we're
over
regulating
one
and
under
regulating
the
other.
Frankly,
that's
what
you
folks
have
that's
the
thought
of
my
day
today
is
that
that
may
be
the
case.
The
last
thing
that
I
want
to
ask
you
about
is
this
border
supply
of
utilities?
B
There
was
something
that
you
said
in
there
about
utilities
that
extend
across
our
state
border.
I
think
you'd
mention
one
one
particular
case,
but
in
my
neck
of
the
woods
there
was
a
situation
where
a
sewer
collection
system
was
going
to
be
on
one
on
the
tennessee
side.
Yet
the
treatment
was
going
to
be
in
mississippi.
Was
that
a
situation
that
t-puck
would
care
to
have
any
interest?
Is
that
or
y'all
charged
to
review
that,
or
is
that
basically,
an
unregulated
kind
of
wild
west
scenario.
L
Well,
if
it's
an
investor
on
utility
providing
service
in
tennessee,
we
would
have
authority
to
set
those
rates.
Now,
when
I
was
talking
about
utilities
operating
in
multiple
states
generally,
what
I'm
referring
to
is
maybe
their
corporate
headquarters
or
they
may
have
service
companies
like
customer
complaint
lines
or
whatever
that
are
being
operated
in
other
states,
that
we
would
take
a
look
at
the
cost
allocations
to
tennessee.
L
Now
there
are
a
few
like
utilities
where
maybe
there
is
a
company
we
had
entergy
arkansas,
they
serve,
maybe
a
half
a
dozen
or
maybe
a
really
small
number
of
tennessee
customers,
and
essentially
the
tennessee
basically
concurs
in
the
arkansas
public
service
commission's
rates
in
in
those
instances,
or
we
might
have
just
a
few
customers,
served
in
tennessee
from
an
out
of
state
utility.
L
That's
very
rare,
though,
and
and
when
that
happens,
it's
usually
just
a
handful
of
customers,
maybe
that
they
have
picked
up
that
goes
across
the
state
line.
So
that's
essentially
how
we
would
would
do
that
is
look
at
the
regulation
that
they're
having
in
other
states
like
entergy
arkansas
and
the
pub
arkansas
public
service
commission
rates.
That's
how
we
review
those.
B
All
right
and
then
what
I'm
gonna
need
to
do
here
is
vice
chairman
brickett.
I'm
gonna
have
to
step
out
for
just
a
brief
moment.
I
will
be
back,
but
if
you
could
gavel,
this
call
work
our
questions
and
then
including
your
own
and
then
we'll
I'll
be
back
to
join
you
here.
I've
just
got
to
step
out
for
just
a
brief
moment.
A
All
right:
well,
I
get
the
gavel
and
the
mic
because
I
was
on
the
next
question
list.
Mine
doesn't
have
to
do
with
rate
paying,
but
it
has
to
do
with
an
operational
question.
I
was
reviewing
y'all's
annual
report.
I
think
about
80
percent
of
y'all's.
Fee
revenues
come
from
inspection
fees.
I
don't
know
what
the
total
annual
revenues
the
commission
receives,
but
my
questions
are
this:
who
do
y'all
set
your
inspection
fees
to
cover
the
self-funding
cost
of
your
commission?
A
I
The
fees
that
are
paid
by
the
utilities
that's
set
by
statute.
So
it's
it's
that's
80,
like
80
85
of
our
revenue,
and
then
we
get
some
revenue
from
the
federal
government
like
our
gas
pipeline
safety
division.
Is
they
provide
80
percent
of
the
monies
that
we
spend
in
that
division?
To
maintain
gas
pipeline
safety
from
mountain
city
to
memphis.
M
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
just
as
we
are
dealing
with
inflationary
pressures,
pretty
much
across
the
board,
just
curious,
if
you
all,
are
seeing
any
activity
in
terms
of
requests
for
rate
increases
based
on
increased
costs
of
operations
of
the
utilities
that
you
oversee.
L
Well,
certainly,
costs
are
on
the
rise
and
we've
seen
some
of
those
requests
for
rate
increases.
Kingsport
power
has
a
pending
rate
case
now
we
have
other
companies
that,
through
the
annual
rate
review
mechanism,
the
alternative
rate
mechanism
that
I
discussed
earlier
that
annually
file
for
rate
increases,
so
we
do
see
rising
costs.
M
L
I
would
be
a
little
bit
hesitant
to
to
talk
with
about
specifics.
I
could
probably
I
certainly
could
get
you
that
information
in
more
detail.
If
you
could
just.
Let
me
just
confirm
just
a
second.
L
L
Over
like
interstate
pipelines,
we
do
not
control
the
price
or
the
charges
for
transporting
that
gas
from
the
gulf
to
the
tennessee
service
area.
Those
are
set
by
the
federal
energy
regulatory
commission
for
governs
the
rates
for
the
interstate
pipeline,
so
we're
just
setting
for
natural
gas
companies,
for
instance,
we're
just
setting
the
amount
that
the
percent
of
the
customers
bill
that
the
company
charges
for
distributing
that
gas
locally,
but
the
cost
of
the
gas
and
the
cost
of
transporting
the
gas
to
tennessee.
L
We
don't
control
the
prices
of
that,
although
our
local
companies
do
not
make
any
profit
on
that
either.
So
it's
only
they're
only
allowed
to
flow
that
through
to
the
customers
at
their
costs,
and
we
do
a
series
of
annual
audits
every
year
to
make
sure
that
those
costs
are
being
flowed
through
appropriately.
L
So
a
lot
of
the
costs
of
the
natural
gas
customers,
for
example-
and
this
relates
also
to
kingsport
power
too
in
some
regards
a
lot-
a
big
portion
that
bill
really
is
set
by
the
market
or
by
the
ferc,
and
it's
not
within
our
jurisdiction
to
set
the
rate
for
that,
and
so
a
lot
of
the
bill
in
the
winter
time.
That
can
be
the
majority
portion
of
a
customer's
bill.
Maybe
70,
80
percent
of
the
bill
could
be
costs
that
are
being
flowed
through,
that
we
have
no
rate
sending
authority
over.
M
Chairman
again
just
to,
I
think,
the
only
reason
I
even
bring
up
the
point
is
to
just
underscore
and
reiterate
that
inflation
is
real
and
it's
impacting
every
aspect
of
tennesseans
lives
and
all
of
our
pocketbooks
and
some
of
the
folks
who
can
at
least
afford
it
with
fixed
incomes
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
energy
is
just
a
huge
part
of
you
know.
You've
got
to
stay
warm.
There
are
a
few
things
you
do
again.
M
B
Thank
you,
chairman,
hazelwood,
and,
and
I'm
going
to
take
chairman's
privilege,
one
more
time
and
just
to
clarify
y'all,
regulate
utilities,
investor
owned
utilities
rates
and
operations,
y'all,
don't
also
wholesale
them
their
product.
Do
you
just
just
clarifying
that
y'all
are
not
selling
anything
to
these
people.
You
regulate
they're,
not
your
customers,
correct.
I
want
to
make.
B
Understood,
representative
towns,
I
saw
you
this
time.
I
had
my
cheaters
off.
G
I
understand,
mr
chairman,
gentlemen,
thank
you
all
for
the
presentations
a
lot
of
stuff
in
here
quite
a
bit
of
stuff
in
there,
and
I
wish
you
had
more
time
to
ask
questions.
One
of
the
questions
I
have
for
you
when
you
talk
about
inspecting
thousands
of
miles
of
pipeline
into
another.
Does
that
also
include
in
your
inspections,
the
transportation
of
oil
and
pipelines,
or
is
it
just
natural
gas.
G
G
That
would
be
something
that
I
would
be
very
very
anxious
to
see
if
we
could
maybe
have
you
all
to
look
at
okay,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
we
all
have
to
have
is
good,
clean
water
for
our
food
and
for
our
you
know,
crops
and
food
seem
different
than
drinking
and
bathing.
What
have
you
it's
very,
very
critical,
as
I've
learned
any
of
that
oil
that
gets
into
any
water
contaminates
millions
of
gallons
of
water?
This
one
gallon?
G
I
G
I
will
that
concerned
me
greatly.
Another
thing
I'd
like
to
echo
something
that
that
my
chair,
lady,
said
that
you
know
billion
dollars
doesn't
go
for
these
days.
It's
just
not
a
lot
of
money
anymore,
even
though
I
don't
have
it,
but
I'm
working
on
it.
G
B
Thank
you,
representative
towns,
and
what
we're
gonna
do
is
we're
gonna
go
to
representative
lin
and
then
we're
gonna
go
to
my
good
friend
from
rutherford
county
to
take
us
home
after
that,
and
I
see
representative
calfi's
back
you've,
you
still
you're
still
inquisitive
all
righty
well
we'll.
I
I
always
like
to
clean
up
with
my
friend
from
rutherford
county.
So
we're
going
to
go
representative
lin,
then
representative,
calfi
and
then
representative
sparks.
J
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I'm
just
curious
when
doing
rate
cases,
do
you
all
take
into
a
consideration,
affiliated
suppliers,
and
I
ask
because
a
number
of
years
ago
there
was
a
rate
case,
a
lot
of
suppliers.
It
was
in
my
district
and
a
lot
of
suppliers
came
to
me
and
said
that
the
utility
only
used
affiliated
suppliers,
in
other
words
they
owned.
All
the
suppliers
naturally
they're
before
you
with
a
rate
case,
so
that
price
that
they're
getting
from
their
suppliers
may
not
actually
be
market,
and
that's
what
these
other
suppliers
were
claiming.
L
Yes,
it
is
that's
a
short
answer
and
you
know
we
don't
restrict
any
of
our
utilities,
of
course,
from
doing
business
with
affiliates,
but
certainly
we
take
a
look
at
those
affiliate
transactions
to
make
sure
that
they're
looked
like
an
arms-length,
market-based
transaction
and
we
have
affiliate
rules
that
are
in
effect
for
certain
of
our
utilities.
J
Awesome
great
answer,
and
then
the
second
question
I
have
when
there
are
jurisdictional
issues
in
my
district,
one
of
our
suppliers.
J
Well,
I'm
sorry,
one
of
our
utilities,
regulated
by
you
all,
was
in
conflict
with
the
city,
the
city's
urban
growth
boundary
and
the
city
said
they
wanted
to
hook
up
the
sewer
and
they
had
domain
and
the
urban
growth
boundary
and
the
utility
claimed.
No.
We
have
it
in
statute
that
this
is
our
territory.
J
You
can't
do
that.
Well,
the
city
did
consult
their
attorney.
They
felt
very
strongly
that
they
were
in
the
right
and
they
just
went
ahead
and
hooked
up
the
sewer,
even
though
the
utility
said
we're
going
to
sue
you
they
didn't,
but
when
there
are
jurisdictional
issues
it
seems
like
there
ought
to
be
a
better
way
to
settle.
That.
L
Well,
we,
you
know
that
occasionally
we
will
have
those
types
of
issues
where
you
have
one
utility,
that's
been
granted
an
exclusive
franchise
to
serve
a
particular
area,
and
maybe
they
are
unable
to
serve
that
area
or
not
serving
that
area
and
someone
else
maybe
wants
to
come
in
and
serve
a
part
of
that
geographic
location.
L
We've
had
that
or
we've
had
maybe
instances
where
a
utility
in
a
city
have
are
in
maybe
a
dispute
about
whether
or
not
who
has
the
right
to
serve
a
particular
area.
Those
cases
can
come
before
the
commission
to
be
decided,
it's
very
rare
that
they
do
arise.
But
if,
if
that
is
filed
before
the
commission,
there
is
a
process
for
the
commission
to
review
and
determine
that
again.
It's
very
rare
that
that
happens.
A
Mr
chairman,
sorry
to
leave
my
calendar
said
I
had
a
meeting
with
comptroller,
but
that
was
yesterday
so
anyway.
Last
week
I
believe
it
was.
We
had
a
presentation
from
tva
and
or
some
heartburn
about
the
fact
that
they
regulated
the
people
that
sent
them
the
revenue.
Where
do
y'all
get
your
revenue.
L
I
Think,
with
the
utilities
that
we
regulate
is
the
bulk
of
it.
We
get
some
from
the
federal
government
to
administer
the
gas
pipeline
safety
division
and
also
the
deafblind
distribution
program,
so
85
or
so
of
our
revenue.
The
fees
that
come
from
the
utilities
that
we
regulate
and
those
fees
are
set
by
statute.
B
B
No,
I
think,
I
think,
that's
a
very
clear
distinction.
I
think
your
question
is
very
pointed
representative.
Calfi
is
the
fact
that
we,
the
we
set
the
statutes
that
require
the
utilities
to
pay
these
folks,
their
operating
expenses?
That's
you
know,
that's
cut,
and
so
they
they
are
the
source
of
the
funds,
but
they
don't
sell
a
prop.
These
fellows,
don't
their
ladies
and
fellows:
don't
sell
a
product
to
the
utilities
and
that's
the
differentia
between
tv.
That's
the
difference
between
tva
and
in
my
eyes.
B
G
Thank
you
chairman
and
thank
you.
I
appreciate
your
passion
for
this
because
this
stuff
affects
our
constituents
every
day.
Every
day.
Just
this
morning
I
was
driving
in
stuck
in
traffic
on
I-24
and
called
my
brother
down
in
dallas.
I'm
like
hey,
how's
things
going.
You
know,
I
know
there
was
some
utility
problems
down
there
and
memphis
was
without
electricity
here.
G
What
two
weeks
ago,
I
guess
my
assistant's
mother
was
out
with
electricity
and
they
do
a
lot
of
wind
power
down
there
and
I
guess
some
of
that
froze
up,
but
you
know
I'm
seeing
fuel
going
up
natural
gas
prices
going
up.
Sometimes
I
think
it's
done
on
purpose.
That's
a
theory
that
I
have
part
of
your
goals
here
is
to
decrease
the
cost
of
regulation.
Can
you
tell
me
what
is
being
done
to
decrease
the
cost
of
regulation.
L
Okay,
well,
I
think,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
we
have
a
lot
of
alternative
forms
of
regulation
rate
setting
now
that
that
has
really
kind
of
newer
types
of
regulation
that
was
authorized
by
the
general
assembly
actually
in
2013
to
streamline
and
modernize
the
rate
setting
process,
and
so
it
essentially
allows
a
utility
to
come
in
with
an
annual
filing
to
keep
their
rates
updated
rather
than
having
to
you
know,
wait
over
a
period
of
sometimes
years
and
come
in
through
a
really
long,
large,
protracted
general
rate
case
proceeding
in
order
to
establish
rates
that
may
then
go.
L
G
Don't
set
tba
sets
poll
attachment
fees
right,
not
y'all.
Tva
says
those.
We
do
not.
Okay,
okay,
the
well,
it
just
seems
like
they're,
and
I
know
I
probably
vent-
maybe
the
wrong
people,
maybe
it's
tva,
but
you
know
you
see
it
seems
like
an
attack
on
fossil
fuels,
and
you
know
you
hear
constituents
that
are
hurting
grandparents
raising
grandkids
now
and
you
see
a
lot
of
turmoil
in
your
districts
or
we
do.
But
I
think
that's
something
we
need
to
keep
up
chairman
and
I
appreciate
your
passion.
G
I
don't
think
there's
enough
discussion
for
solutions
in
the
general
assembly
and
it's
hard
to
grasp
my
head
around
all
this
and
I
think
it's
difficult
for
for
everyone.
So
hats
off
to
this
committee
and
the
chairman
for
for
taking
on
that
challenge.
B
We
are
I'm
noting
it
noting
every
one
of
you
who
have
stayed
through
and
and
taken
us
to
the
end
of
this
today
so
anyway.
Thank
you
all
for
coming
today,
t-puck.
We
have
actually
worked
overtime,
I'll
turn
that
in
on
all
our
time
cards
and
we
are
going
to
go
back
in
session
simply
so.
We
may
adjourn
until
next
week.