►
Description
House Commerce Committee- February 1, 2022- House Hearing Room 1
A
Good
morning,
everybody,
the
time
of
the
time,
is
10
30.
it's
time
to
get
this
show
on
the
road
and
us
get
commercial.
This
is
the
meeting
of
the
house,
commerce,
full
committee,
madam
clerk
or
mr
clerk.
Would
you
please
call
the
roll
who's
calling
today,
mr
clerk.
A
Thank
you,
sir,
given
the
fact
that
we're
coming
off
of
our
winter
break,
however
short,
it
may
have
been
I'll
entertain.
Any
personal
orders
from
anyone
representative
hasten.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Just
help
me
welcome
our
911
directors
that
are
here
today
visiting
us.
A
A
Alrighty,
well,
we
are
going
to
get
on
with
our
business
for
those
of
you
who
have
who
have
been
following
what
we're
doing
here.
One
of
the
aspects
that
this
committee
oversees
is
utility
regulator,
legislation
with
regards
to
utility
regulation
and
one
of
the
things
when
you're
around
this
body.
A
That
you'll
notice
is
that
we
are
a
dynamic
group,
there's
members
coming
and
going
leaving
for
whatever
reason,
new
members
being
elected,
and
so
sometimes
that
can
affect
a
body's
institutional
memory
and
understanding
of
issues
that
come
before
us
and
so
we're
taking
a
little
bit
of
a
move
down
to
understand
and
almost
a
remedial
class
in
utilities
and
utility
regulations
that
we
oversee
here
in
the
state.
A
Last
week
we
dealt
with
water
systems.
Today,
I
believe
we're
going
to
be
discussing
electric
coops
and
municipal
electric
systems.
We've
got
guests
coming
to
talk
to
us
about
each
of
those
and
committee
members.
A
Last
week
we
threw
both
them
and
myself
off
kilter
a
little
bit
because
I
was
blurting
things
out
as
they
as
they
came
across
my
brain
waves.
So
we're
going
to
do
this
a
little
bit
more
early
today
and
first
up,
we
have
some
testimony
from
the
tennessee
electric
co-op
association
and
if
we
could
mike,
if
you
could
introduce
yourself
and
tell
us
who
you're
from
and
then
pour
forth
on
us
knowledge
that
we
need-
and
we
will
sit
here
quietly
and
respectfully
and
then
pepper
with
you
with
questions
once
you've
concluded.
C
C
Now,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
My
name
is
mike
knotts
and
I
represent
the
tennessee
electric
cooperative
association,
which
is
the
trade
association
representing
25
member
electric
systems
across
tennessee
and
actually
into
into
some
of
our
neighboring
states
as
well,
and
so
today
we
have
a
goal
just
to
share
a
little
bit
with
you
about
our
history,
why?
C
Electric
cooperatives
are
the
way
we
are
today
and
how
that
history
has
shaped
the
current
the
current
day
and,
most
importantly,
I
want
to
share
with
you
the
structure
of
of
why
we
came
to
be
and
how
we
operate
and
just
I
always
believe
strongly
in
starting
with
the
end
in
mind
and
so
that
the
thing
you
need
to
remember
today
that
I'll
go
through
in
more
detail
in
my
presentation
is
that
we
are
locally
governed.
We
are
organized
by
the
state
and
we
are
regulated
by
the
federal
government.
C
We
may
be
the
most
most
impacted
by
government
government
regulation
of
any
of
the
utilities
in
the
state,
but
my
colleagues
across
the
industry
may
agree
or
disagree
with
that,
but
we
feel
that
the
the
structure
is
the
structure
works.
C
Just
like
you
might
be
a
member
of
an
llc
or
the
member
of
a
partnership.
Member
in
this
case
denotes
ownership.
We
are
owned
by
those
for
whom
we
serve
so
I'm
a
member
of
my
electric
cooperative
middle
tennessee
electric,
and
if
that
cooperative
were
to
be
disbanded
or
sold
the
proceeds
of
that
sale,
I
get
my
proportional
share
of
the
proceeds
of
that
sale.
The
ownership
flows
directly
back
to
the
consumer,
who's
consuming
the
services,
but
we
also
operate
not
for
profit.
C
So
that's
where
we
also
get
also
get
some
confusion.
Sometimes,
when
we,
when
you
and
I
are
you
and
our
members
back
across
the
state
have
conversations-
is
that
we
are
not
for
profit
entities,
so
we're
a
private
sector,
but
not
for
profit
and
so
across
tennessee,
as
you
all
very
well
know,
and
are
learning
through
these
presentations.
The
overwhelming
majority
of
utilities
in
tennessee
are
government
owned.
We
are
privately
owned.
C
We
are
owned
by
our
customers,
so
we're
private
sector,
but
also
not-for-profit,
and
we
think
that
combination
works
incredibly
well
in
how
we
serve
the
people
of
tennessee,
and
we
are
also
very
much
community
focused
because
of
that
ownership
connection.
The
co-ops
work
diligently
to
be
important
members
and
great
corporate
citizens
all
across
the
state.
I
venture
to
say
if
you
live
in
a
place
where
you're
served
by
an
electric
co-op.
C
You
know
that
the
electric
co-op
is
deeply
involved
in
your
community,
we're
anchor
institutions
across
the
state,
particularly
in
rural
parts
of
the
state.
C
C
At
that
point
in
time,
the
large
investor-owned
companies
had
set
up
shop
all
across
america
and
were
serving
where
they
found
it
to
be
profitable.
To
do
so.
So
in
large
cities
there
was
often
a
power
company
serving
serving
those
those
citizens
and
a
number
of
cities.
Governments
set
up
their
own
power
companies
as
well.
C
Buffs,
I'm
looking
across
the
room-
and
I
know
a
lot
of
you-
are
there's
a
great
book
called
the
path
to
power
and
it's
a
book
about
lbj
about
lyndon,
baines,
johnson
and
his
ascent
through
local
politics,
to
eventually
becoming
president
of
the
united
states
and
one
of
his
early
small
pe
political
activities
was
helping
organize
his
electric
cooperative,
because
the
hill
country
of
east
texas
was
not
electrified
in
the
1930s
and
there's
a
tremendous
couple
of
chapters
in
that
book.
C
That's
noted
in
the
footnote
of
the
slide
about
what
life
was
like
for
those
individuals
who
lacked
electricity,
and
it
will
really.
It
will
really
give
you
some
perspective.
That's
amazing!
So
if
you're
history
buff,
please
go
read
that
book
and
it'll
help.
You
give
some
appreciation
to
what
the
co-op
means
to
that
community
to
communities
all
across
america.
C
So
what
was
causing
the
that
to
a
role?
Electrification,
just
to
not
happen,
was
simply
population
density.
The
business
models
of
an
investor
owned
company
did
not
see
enough
return
on
investment
to
enter
into
those
rural
areas.
There
just
simply
weren't
enough
people
in
a
given
area
to
provide
any
enough
return
on
that
investment
and
since
those
rural
areas
didn't
lay
inside
this,
the
boundaries
of
a
city.
You
know
mayor
a
mayor
out
in
the
countryside
as
well.
C
So
what
happened
to
solve
this
problem?
It
was
widely
seen
as
a
societal
problem.
All
across
america
happened
through
the
united
states.
Government
and
congress
decided
that
this
was
a
problem
that
needed
to
be
solved.
But
what
was
wonderful-
and
they
did
this
through
a
couple
pieces
of
legislation,
but
what
happened
was
not
a
large
government
agency.
It
was
the
most
successful
public-private
partnership
in
the
history
of
this
country,
wisely,
in
my
in
my
opinion,
and
that
of
the
electric
cooperative
community.
C
Instead
of
creating
large
large
government
department
to
physically
go
and
electrify
the
countryside,
the
federal
government
realized
the
best
path
to
solving.
This
problem
was
to
empower
those
individuals
who
were
in
need
of
that
of
this
of
electric
service,
and
so
what
the
congress
did
was
enable
low-interest
loans
that
allowed
people
to
form
cooperatives
that
would
then
become
were
owned
by
themselves
and
were
created
for
the
purpose
of
helping
themselves.
C
So
farmers
and
small
town
merchants,
all
across
america,
joined
together
and
they
did
the
work
to
build
their
electric
cooperative
and
they
owned
that
cooperative
and
still
those
these
entities
exist
through
the
day
through
today
and
that
approach
of
of
government
of
properly
placing
a
government
incentive
but
not
requiring
consistent
government
involvement
in
the
running
of
those
operations
has
paid
off
in
spades
for
rural
america
and
small
town.
America
and
again
I
just
simply
state.
I
think
it
is,
without
a
doubt,
the
most
successful
public-private
partnership
in
the
history
of
this
country.
C
C
Those
of
you
that
are
in
business
know
that
that
math
gets
difficult,
pretty
quick,
the,
but
the
advantage
that
cooperatives
often
have
is
our
long
time
frame.
We
understand
that
these
capital
investments
that
we
make
to
run
the
electric
system
are
generally
for
assets
that
have
useful
lives
of
40,
50,
60,
sometimes
even
greater
number
of
years,
and
so
we're
able
to
spread
those
investments
out
over
time,
but
where
history
impacts
us
today,
electric
co-op
owners
across
the
state.
Today
we
pay
lower
rates.
C
C
Last
time
I
checked,
we
don't
control
lightning
and
worse
than
that,
we
don't
control.
Squirrels
you'd,
be
amazed
how
often
power
outages
are
caused
by
squirrels,
and
so
obviously
that's
what
the
the
apparatus
that
the
local
cooperative
is
about
is
to
help
it
maintain
this
infrastructure
to
build
new
infrastructure
where
it's,
where
it's
needed
and
importantly,
electric
co-ops
in
tennessee
have
much
lower
debt
than
our
cooperative
brethren
across
the
country
and
that
low
debt
pays
off
by
having
less
need
to
service
debt
and
therefore
lower
rates
for
all
of
us
to
enjoy.
C
So
I
think
the
the
co-op
story,
as
the
history
is
very
very
interesting,
but
as
we
move
into
today,
it's
a
great
success
story
even
through
today
just
quickly
I
mentioned
the
the
fact
that
our
infrastructure
is
is
spread
differently
in
general,
you
see
some
of
the
comparisons
here,
I'm
going
to
talk
about
municipal
utilities
and
electric
cooperatives
for
just
a
second.
C
We
generally
have
much
lower
density
back
to
the
history
of
why
co-ops
came
into
existence.
So
typically,
we
see
about
7.4
of
our
owners
per
mile
of
line
that
we
build.
So
you
think
about
poles
on
the
side
of
the
road
and
the
wires
that
are
on
top
about
7.4
customers
per
mile,
whereas
our
our
colleagues
in
the
municipal
arena
typically
have
around
48.,
and
you
can
see
the
difference
there
in
terms
of
revenue,
whereas
we're
typically
living
on
about
16
000
of
revenue
per
mile
of
of
line.
C
And
then
you
see
the
breakdown
I
just
gave
you
in
terms
of
population.
Cooperatives
have
to
be
lean
and
mean
and
frugal,
because
we
it
takes
that's
what
it
takes
to
make
the
dollars
and
cents
work,
as
we
mentioned
before.
Almost
three
million
tennesseans
today
are
served
by
an
electric
cooperative
about
one
in
three
of
our
homes
and
we're
present
in
85
out
of
95
of
tennessee's
counties.
C
I
would
also
note
that
the
the
overwhelming
majority
of
tennessee's
persistent
poverty
counties
are
served
by
an
electric
cooperative.
C
We
are
very
aware
of
and
understanding
of
the
burden
that
people
of
low
income
have
in
paying
their
energy
bills.
We
know
that
it's
it's
an
important
part
of
their
life.
We
also
stand
with
them
and
walk
with
them
through
the
struggle
sometimes
to
afford
those
bills,
because
we
serve
the
places
in
this
state
where
poverty
is
a
persistent
problem,
a
number
of
those
places,
and
so
a
lot
of
people
don't
tend
to
think
about
rural
and
persistent
poverty
in
the
same
sentences,
and
that
is
definitely
true
here
in
tennessee.
C
C
C
Then
you
have
transmission,
which
these
are
the
large
kind
of
erector
set
style
towers
that
you
see
oftentimes
out
in
the
country.
Sometimes
nearby.
You
know,
interstate
paths
and
the
purpose
of
those
large
structures
and
the
wires
that
are
contained
are
to
move
high
voltage,
high
quantity
power
from
the
manufacturing
location,
from
the
generating
stations
to
the
places
of
consumption,
so
think
of
the
electric
transmission
system,
kind
of
like
a
trucking,
a
trucking
fleet
for
that
shoe
factory
that
moves
the
shoes
from
factory
to
the
local
store.
C
So
the
distribution
component
of
the
of
the
electric
sector-
this
is
where
electric
cooperatives
live
in
tennessee,
electric
cooperatives
are,
distribution
are
in
the
distribution
business
we
are
not
in
the
generation
or
transmission
business
in
tennessee,
both
generation
and
transmission
is
exclusively
the
the
venue
of
the
tennessee
valley
authority.
C
So
those
three
distinctions
will
come
into
play
as
we
have
these
conversations
about
how
things
are
regulated
and
who
owns
what,
but
there's
also
three
different
types
of
ownership,
and
so
I'll.
Just
we've
already
talked
about
this.
So
I'll,
be
very
brief
with
this,
as
you
know,
cooperatives
we're
owned
jointly
by
our
customers
and
so
membership
is
required.
In
order
to
receive
that
electric
service,
you
must
provide
membership
and
that
traditionally
means
providing
capital.
C
C
Each
cooperative
is
governed
by
a
board
of
directors
who
are
elected
in
in
open
elections
by
the
owners
by
the
members
of
the
co-op,
and
so
I
like
to
tell
a
lot
of
you
because
we're
all
involved
in
politics-
and
we
understand
a
little
bit
of
shorthand-
that
running
for
a
co-op
board-
is
kind
of
like
running
for
the
county
commission.
There's
a
lot
of
similarity
in
terms
of
the
scope
of
the
election,
the
numbers
of
people.
C
You
need
to
go
out
and
touch
the
numbers
of
people
you
need
to
talk
to,
but
oftentimes
the
number
of
people
you
are
responsible
for
after
you
are
elected
to
the
board,
vastly
exceeds
that
of
a
county
commission
district
public
power
is,
is
broadly
more.
The
government-owned
utilities
in
tennessee
those
are
primarily
municipally
owned.
I'm
sure
my
colleague,
jeremy
elrod
will
discuss
that
in
more
detail
on
the
next
presentation
and
then
there
are
also
all
across
america
investor-owned
electric
utilities.
C
These
are
companies,
like
you
know
the
large
companies
we're
used
to
that
where
that
are
owned
by
shareholders,
that
stock
can
either
be
privately
or
publicly
held.
Profits
are
returned
to
those
shareholders
through
dividends,
and
the
governance
is
directed
by
the
shareholders,
not
necessarily
by
the
customers
in
tennessee
there's
only
one
investor-owned,
electric
utility,
and
it's
present
in
kingsport.
C
It
is
part
of
the
american
electric
power
corporation,
which
is
based
out
of
ohio,
but
it's
only
in
kingsport.
C
So
now
into
some
of
the
nitty-gritty.
I
talked
about
local
governance.
Our
local
boards
of
directors
govern
the
day-to-day
operations
of
our
cooperatives,
but
I
do
want
to
talk
first
about
the
state
role
in
how
we
are
organized
state
code
specifies
how
an
electric
cooperative
is
organized,
so
the
primary
our
primary
code
of
jurisdiction
is
the
rural
electric
and
community
services
cooperatives
act,
that
is
in
title
65,
chapter
25,
and
that
that
dictates
things
like
that
we
will
operate
at
not-for-profit
and
that
we
will
provide
universal
universal
service.
C
We
help
fund
a
number
of
the
local
economic
development
agencies
and
anytime.
There
are
corporations
or
companies
looking
to
expand
or
bring
their
businesses
to
tennessee.
One
of
the
first
questions
they
ask
is:
can
I
get
power
and
the
second
question
is
usually:
can
I
get
broadband
and
oftentimes?
The
electric
cooperative
is
the
key
to
answering
those
questions
to
potentially
bring
that
business
to
our
state
and
also
our
code
also
gives
us
a
specific
powers
under
state
law.
C
It
allows
us
to
generally
to
conduct
business,
and
the
code
is
very
specific
about
the
fact
that
we
are
allowed
to
do
business
activities
to
take
on
a
corporate
seal,
to
buy
and
purchase
property
to
mortgage
that
property.
All
the
things
that
you
would
typically
find
contained
in
the
general
corporation
statutes
that
are
in
title
48
of
the
law.
It
also
gives
us
the
because
we
are
in
the
electric
business.
It
does
grant
us
the
power
of
eminent
domain,
I'm
proud
to
say
that
it
is
very,
very
rarely
if
ever
exercised.
C
The
code
also
dictates
some
of
the
basics
of
our
governance
structure.
It
says
that
we
will
have
a
board
of
directors
and
it
and
it
dictates
the
structure
of
those
boards
and
the
election
and
the
fact
that
those
must
be
elected.
It
creates
requirements
for
us
to
hold
meetings
for
our
members
again,
member
meaning
owner.
C
So
we
are
required
under
state
code
as
to
how
we
provide
information
about
basic
financial
statements
and
basic
operations
to
our
members
on
a
regular
basis
and
allow
our
members
to
interact
with
us
through
an
annual
meeting
or
and
other
mechanisms
throughout
the
course
of
the
year
and
to
engage
in
that
governance
process
addict.
The
law
dictates
how
a
cooperative
might
merge
with
another,
how
we
might
be
sold
or
how
our
assets
might
be
disposed
of.
Should
a
cooperative
heaven
forbid
ever
find
itself.
You
know
in
a
in
a
bad
shape.
C
C
We
pay.
We
are.
Our
tax
structure
is
that
of
ad
valorem
taxation,
so
our
property
is
assessed
every
year.
The
comptroller's
division
of
locally
assessed
properties
assesses
the
property,
the
value
of
an
electric
cooperative
every
year,
and
we
pay
taxes
based
on
the
value
of
that
property,
and
it
is
then
paid
directly
to
our
local
communities.
C
C
Now,
in
addition
to
6525
as
non-profit
corporations,
we
are
also
subject
to
the
law
and
contained
in
title
48
chapters
51-68,
which
is
our
general
nonprofit
corporation
statutes,
and
so
there
are
a
number
of
requirements
these.
This
is
the
code
that
would
that
would
govern
a
homeowner's
association,
for
instance,
and
any
number
any
number
of
other
non-profit
entities
that
set
up
and
conduct
themselves
across
across
the
state,
either
in
in
the
case
of
commerce
or
for
the
benefit
of
of
individuals.
C
It's
a
very
large
wide
section
of
law,
we're
subject
to
that
as
well.
There
are
a
number
of
places
where
those
two
laws
conflict
and
when,
when
they
conflict,
the
electric
cooperative
code
supersedes
that
of
title
48
and
there's
actually
a
title.
65
25
125
specifies
in
great
detail
which
specific
sections
of
title
48
are.
We
are
excluded
from
because
they
those
things
those
things
conflict.
C
C
C
So
we
cannot
have
a
separate
rate
for
a
residential
customer
in
one
location
than
we
do
for
another
if
they
are
inside
the
same
rate
class,
meaning
they
are
all
a
residential
customer
or
a
specific
type
of
commercial
customer
or
an
industrial
customer.
There
are
various
different
rate
classes,
but
inside
of
those
rate
classes,
we
cannot
discriminate
among
among
those
with
differing
rates.
C
If
you
really
want
to
nerd
out
with
me
that
is
called
purpa,
and
we
can.
I
love
to
talk
about
purpa
and
then
most
of
you
when
I
do
that
either
give
me
a
grin
or
fall
asleep,
so
that
there's
there's
two
pieces
of
law
there
purpa,
but
it
was
the
original
authority
for
tva
to
regulate
us
came
through
the
tva
act
of
1933,
which
established
the
tennessee
valley
authority.
It
was
simply
affirmed
in
1978.
C
State
statute
specifies
in
detail
that
a
monopoly
service
is
in
the
best
interest
of
tennessee's
ratepayers,
and
this
is
based
on
the
incredible
capital
cost.
That's
contained
to
build
duplicative
facilities
to
serve
an
electric
customer,
and
so
we've
operated
under
this
under
this
under
this
structure,
since
at
least
the
late
1960s.
C
Forgive
me
for
not
remembering
the
exact
date
that
that
was
enacted,
but
there
was
a
date
and
a
point
in
time
in
which
the
service
territories
were
simply
kind
of
frozen
in
time
and
those
service
territories
only
change
upon
the
mutual
agreement
of
two
utilities.
Perhaps
they
might
agree
to
swap
territory
or
perhaps
one
might
agree
to
absorb
some
area
of
the
other.
C
Maybe
it
pertains
to
you
know
a
new
development
or
a
new
industrial
facility
that
one's
better
suited
to
serve
than
the
other
or
for
many
years
annexation
was
another
route
to
changing
the
those
service
territories.
A
city
could
annex
property
outside
you
know,
annex
property
into
the
city,
and
if
that
property
was
served
by
an
electric
cooperative,
the
city
could
choose
to
incorp.
If
that
city
had
a
municipal
electric
system,
sorry,
I
should
have
added
that
added
that
condition.
C
C
So
that
local,
that
local
flavor
is
what
really
what
we're
really
so
proud
of
with
electric
cooperatives.
We
exist
to
serve
our
owners
and
we're
governed
by
our
owners
through
that
board
of
directors,
and
so
they
that
board
of
directors
develops
the
specific
policies
inside
of
the
state
guidelines
that
are
implemented
through
statute
and
inside
of
the
federal
regulations
that
are
placed
upon
us
by
tva.
The
board
then
creates
those
local
policies
that
govern
how
the
the
co-op
does
business
on
a
day-to-day
basis,
primarily,
is
the
selection
of
management.
C
Our
boards
select
the
ceo
or
the
general
manager
cooperative,
and
that
is
the
key
to
to
their
implementation
of
how
policy
is
implemented.
They
set
policies,
they
hire
the
management
and
then
they
monitor
to
ensure
those
policies
are
followed.
C
Taxes
is
a
specific
question
that
comes
up.
I
mentioned
that
earlier
cooperatives
do
operate
on
a
not-for-profit
basis.
From
a
federal
standpoint,
we
are
the
irs
classifies
electric
cooperatives
as
501c12
organizations.
C
Again,
if
you
want
to
geek
out
on
it
a
little
bit,
you
can
go,
look
up,
501c12
and
see
the
differences
between
a
c3
or
a
c6
or
c12,
but
we
are
501c12
organizations,
so
we
are
not
subject
to
federal
income
tax
because
we
do
not
earn
a
profit
any
revenue
we
collect
beyond
the
needs
for
expenses
in
a
year.
Those
are
margins
and
those
are
reinvested
into
the
cooperative,
which
is
another
reason
why
we're
able
to
keep
rates
low
and
lower
than
a
lot
of
the
national
averages
that
you
saw
on
the
screen
earlier.
C
As
I
mentioned
earlier
sorry,
this
is
a
little
bit
of
a
repeat.
Our
property
is
assessed
by
the
comptroller's
office
and
we
pay
ad
valorem
taxation
on
that
right
now.
The
number
is
about
65
million
dollars
a
year
in
taxes
that
are
paid
by
electric
cooperatives,
and
I
would
say
to
you
as
a
whole.
The
electric
sector
in
tennessee
may
be
the
single
largest
taxpayer
in
this
state,
the
department
of
revenue.
C
I've
asked
for
many
years
for
them
to
confirm
that
for
me,
but
they
do
not
provide
specific
information
and
do
not
rank
rank
in
this
way.
But
you
know
cooperatives,
electric
co-ops
are
paying
about
65
million
dollars
in
taxes
directly
to
our
communities.
Tva
through
its
in
lieu
of
tax
payment
structure
pays
over
last
year
paid
over
340
million
dollars
in
taxes
to
our
local
communities,
and
your
municipal
utilities
have
their
own
setup
as
well,
which
I
will
leave
to
mr
elrod
to
discuss.
C
C
C
Our
our
cost
to
buy
wholesale
electricity
that
is
produced
and
generated
to
us
by
tba
accounts
for
greater
than
70
of
expense
of
all
co-op
expenses.
At
some
cooperatives
it
can
be
as
high
as
82
82
to
83
percent
of
all
of
the
cooperatives.
Revenue
is
paid
in
wholesale
payments
to
the
tennessee
valley
authority
we
own
and
operate
about
five
billion
dollars
of
assets
in
the
state,
and
I
mentioned
earlier,
we
operate
lean.
C
We
have
average
margins
of
about
five
percent
across
the
state,
so
it
is
impossible
to.
You
know,
bring
it
home
to
the
penny.
You
know
we
are
not
for
profit
companies,
but
that
doesn't
mean
you
can
set
up
your
structure
in
such
a
way
that
you
earn
one
penny
more
than
you
spend
every
year.
C
Margins
are
a
necessary
part
of
the
business,
but
what's
great
about
the
cooperative
structure
is
that
those
margins
are
then
reinvested
into
the
company
and
that's
why
our
debt
is
so
much
lower
than
the
averages
across
the
state
employ
about
2
600
people
over
100
million
dollars
of
payroll.
A
lot
of
you
know,
working
at
the
co-op's,
a
good
job
and
I'm
particularly
proud
of
of
our
workforce.
C
Electric
linemen
do
one
of
the
most
dangerous
jobs
in
america.
This
very
committee
took
action
last
year
and
I
want
to
thank
you
again
for
the
action
you
took
to
help
protect
them
as
they
do
this
dangerous
job.
You
pass
some
legislation.
Chairman
vaughn.
I
was
particularly
thankful
for
your
comments.
As
we
worked
on
that
legislation
both
privately
and
to
the
committee
electric
line
workers
do
a
very,
very
difficult
job.
C
It's
also
you
know
it's
also
a
blue-collar
job
that
pays
very
well,
and
so
it's
a
great
career
path
for
a
lot
of
our
fellow
citizens.
You
know
these
are.
These
are
guys
that
are
making
sick
a
lot
of
them
with
a
little
bit
of
overtime,
you're,
making
six
figures,
and
we
take
very
very
seriously
our
our
duty
as
companies
to
train
them
and
to
keep
them
safe,
and
our
safety
programs
are
a
very
key
part
of
what
we
do
on
a
day-to-day
basis.
C
But
I
can
never
ever
speak
to
any
of
you,
particularly
into
a
microphone
without
thanking
our
electric
line
workers
across
the
state.
They
do
tremendous
tremendous
work.
We
rely
on
them
every
single
day
and
to
whoever's
listening
to
all
of
you
and
whoever's
listening,
I
would
say
the
next
time
you
walk
into
a
room
and
you
flip
the
switch
and
you're
annoyed
that
the
light
doesn't
immediately
come
on.
C
First
of
all,
I
understand
it.
I
I
feel
exactly
the
same
way,
but
remember
that
when
that
does
happen,
it
takes
a
human
being
to
get
out
and
to
drive
in
a
truck
and
to
climb
a
pole
and
to
risk
their
life
to
restore
that
service
to
you.
So
I
can
never
never
do
this
talk
without
thanking
our
line.
Workers.
C
Lastly,
I
will
talk
just
briefly
about
broadband,
so
based
on
some
of
the
history
we
talked
about
a
minute
ago.
Some
of
you
might
have
recognized
some
of
those
societal
issues
from
the
1930s
as
it
related
to
power,
as
it
might
relate
to
some
of
your
communities.
Today,
when
it
comes
to
broadband,
the
state
only
granted
electric
cooperatives
the
authority
to
enter
into
the
broadband
space
in
2017..
C
But
the
issue
of
rural
broadband
is
really
maybe
one
of
the
only
bipartisan
political
issues
that
we
have
today.
I
think
republicans
and
democrats
can
agree
that
access
to
to
reliable
broadband
is
essential
for
participation
in
today's
society
is
no
longer
a
luxury.
You
know,
I
would
say,
10
years
ago,
even
some
of
our
cooperatives
looked
at.
C
C
The
the
electric
utility
can't,
for
instance,
say:
hey,
you
guys
had
a
bad
year.
Here's
a
few
million
dollars,
don't
worry
about
it,
absolutely
not.
That
is
that
is
subsidy
subsidization
and
current
state
law
prohibits
that,
and
actually
most
of
our
cooperatives
have
entered
into
this
space,
hoping
for
the
opposite
of
the
example.
C
I
just
gave
that
as
broadband
systems
mature
and
provide
and
provide
revenue
that
perhaps
money
will
flow
up
from
the
subsidiary
into
the
parent
and
help
our
electric
businesses
keep
rates
low
and
we're
on
on
a
path
to
do
that
in
a
lot
of
in
a
lot
of
places-
and
I
would
note
again
we're
subject
to
the
same
regulatory
and
franchise
obligations
as
any
as
all
other
broadband
providers.
C
C
So
that
concludes
my
presentation,
chairman
vaughn,
good
job.
Thank
you
for
for
letting
me
work
work
through.
I
would
have
been
happy
to
accept
your
questions
along
the
way,
but
I'm
happy
to
accept
any
any
questions
or
discussion
that
the
committee
would
like
to
entertain
all.
A
B
Thank
you
chair
chairman
vaughn,
and
I
appreciate
you
coming
today
and
I
just
want
to
reiterate
to
the
appreciation
we
have
for
those
linemen
that
are
out
there
with
the
tornadoes
hit
back
in
2020,
the
middle
tennessee
electric
lineman
and
the
the
linemen
that
came
from
other
communities
to
to
backfill
them
did
an
incredible
job
and
we
can't
thank
them
enough.
I
have
two
questions.
One
is
in
on
the
broadband
when
they
create
a
subsidiary
entity
to
provide
broadband.
B
C
As
a
subsidiary,
it
is
its
ownership,
is
the
parent
cooperative,
so
the
electric
cooperative
would
own
the
subsidiary.
So
it
is
a
cooperative
of
a
cooperative.
If
you
want
to
put
it
that
way,
it
does
not
have
independent
ownership.
The
owners
of
the
electric
cooperative
also
own
that
subsidiary
and
they
can
be
structured
as
for-profit
or
non-profit
in
either
case,
as
in
as
in
almost
any
business
structure.
If
there
is
excess
revenue,
the
revenue,
the
excess
revenue
flows
back
to
the
parent.
B
B
I'm
sure
that's
a
concern
at
tva
at
the
state
level,
with
all
the
co-ops
that
that
served
tennessee
is
that
something
that
they
are
being
proactive.
What
would
can
you
speak
to
that.
C
Absolutely
it's
a
it's.
A
very
large
concern,
a
lot
of
the
intrusion
attacks.
You
know
the
ones
you
see
in
the
paper
are
generally,
you
know
somebody
tried
to
cyber
hack
cyber
attack,
you
know
or
hack.
You
know
a
nuclear
plant
or
some
sensitive
piece
of
infrastructure,
the
overwhelming
majority.
I
can't
prove
this
and
were
in
in
actual
statistics
today,
but
anecdotally.
C
The
the
intrusions
that
I
hear
about
the
most
are
at
the
local
level.
You
know
cyber
cyber
attacks.
They
want
to
find
the
weakest
point
in
the
system,
so
electric
cooperatives
we
work
collaboratively
with
all
segments
of
the
industry.
It's
one
of
the
reasons
this
a
question
like
this
is
one
of
the
reasons
I
went
through
the
time
of
explaining
the
difference
between
generation,
transmission
and
distribution.
C
We
work
together
with
our
generation
transmission
partners,
with
our
fellow
cooperatives
across
the
country
with
a
lot
of
three-letter
agencies
that
are
headquartered
in
washington,
d.c
through
our
national
association
and
through
the
national
associations
of
the
investor
owned
utilities,
as
well
as
the
municipal
utilities.
We
are
all
on
the
same
team
when
it
comes
to
cyber
security,
and
so
there's.
Yes,
there's
a
tremendous
amount
of
effort
surrounding
that,
and
you
know
that
is
that
is
you're
you're
right
to
ask
that
question.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
a
great
presentation
very
informative.
My
question
certainly
stays
on
the
broadband
and
the
issue
dealing
with
the
non-territorial
statement
it.
B
Certainly
in
my
district,
there
are
territorial
lines
between
the
electric
coop
and
the
municipal
districts
and
I'm
not
sure
if
it's
formal
or
informal,
based
on
what
I
understand
is
a
long-term
standard
that
I
don't
get
in
your
territory
and
you
don't
get
in
my
territory
yet
right
outside
of
municipality.
There
are
citizens
not
getting
broadband,
that
our
municipal
district
would
love
the
service
so
of
the
of
the
seven
co-ops
that
are
not
providing
broadband
when
they're
not
providing
it.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I'll
leave
the
shouldn't
part
to
you
and
your
you
and
your
colleagues
to
determine,
but
I
will
just
be
clear
so
the
I
did
talk
about
the
territorial
arrangement
of
our
electric
systems
being
set
in
statute.
C
Then,
when
it
comes
to
to
broadband
services,
electric
cooperatives
are
prevented
from
providing
broadband
service
outside
of
its
electric
system
footprint
by
statute.
Similarly,
municipal
electric
utilities
who
have
entered
the
broadband
space
are
prevented
from
providing
broadband
outside
of
their
electric
system
footprint
by
statute,
but
it's
in
separate
locations
in
the
statute.
C
So
therefore
there
are
no
electric
cooperatives
and
municipal
utilities
competing
against
each
other
for
broadband,
because
under
state
law
we're
not.
We
simply
couldn't
do
that,
even
if
we
wanted
to
today,
so
that
that's
that's
why
that
does
not
occur
as
your
question
about
why
shouldn't
that
occur.
That's
a
policy
decision
of
this
legislature,
and
that
is
one
that
I
imagine
you
will
have
the
opportunity
to
consider
this
year.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
great
presentation.
I
agree
for
our
911
people.
I
just
wanted
to
mention.
Had
a
client
one
time
was
talking
to
him
and
she
said
her
husband
was
holding
his
chest,
he's
recliner,
maybe
having
a
heart
attack,
and
she
said
what's
that
number
for
911
and
we
did
get
him
some
help
and
he
turned
out
okay,
but
I
just
thought
that
was
kind
of
it's
something.
I've
never
forgotten,
but
going
back
to
our
question
on
this
and
it
kind
of
touches
on
what
vice
chairman
bricken
was
talking
about.
B
We
have
do
you
not
have
contract
with
if
you
have
a
municipality,
I
have
two
rural
co-ops
in
my
district,
but
when
you
have
a
municipality
that
does
not
offer
it,
then
you
could
actually
contract
with
them
correctly
to
offer
broadband
in
the
area.
If
they,
if
they
choose
not
to
offer,
do
is
that
contract?
Are
they
and
are
they
working
out?
Okay,
don't
you
have
those
available.
C
I'll
address
that
in
just
a
second
I'm
glad
you
made
the
connection
to
the
to
our
911
community.
I
should
have
mentioned
during
the
course
of
my
presentation.
Electric
linemen
are
often
first
responders.
We
operate
in
that
space.
A
great
example
of
this.
If
you
recall
the
tragic
accident
that
happened
in
smyrna
a
few
years
ago,
when
the
blue
angels
jet
number
six,
when
captain
huss
crashed
and
lost
his
life,
I
believe
it
was
captain
house
I'll
feel
really
bad.
C
Two
years
ago,
we
honored
some
linemen
from
mountain
electric
cooperative
on
the
floor
of
the
house,
who
rescued
a
person
who
was
in
a
vehicle
that
was
in
rushing
flood
water,
and
the
bucket
truck
from
the
electric
co-op
was
the
only
way
they
could
access
the
vehicle
safely.
So
oftentimes
our
guys
are
first
responders
and
we
treat
them
that
way
and
we
give
them
that
sort
of
respect.
Now
to
your
questions.
C
Yeah
so
now,
as
your
question,
I
want
to
make
sure
I
understand
the
question,
as
you
stated
it
to
me.
Under
current
law,
the
electric
cooperative
is
not
allowed
to
provide
broadband
service
to
a
customer
of
a
municipal
electric
system,
so
you
talked
about
contracts
and
partnerships,
I'm
not
100
certain
what
you're
referring
to,
but
from
the
in
the
broadband
space
that
ability
does
not
exist.
Today.
Okay,.
B
My
understanding
was
that
it
that
it
did
that
that,
if
you,
if
you
had
a
municipality,
that
chose
not
to
offer
broadband,
that
they
could
actually
contract-
and
I
guess
do
like
an
attachment
fee
or
whatever
and
contract
with
the
co-op
to
offer
broadband
in
their
footprint
in
some
maybe
rural
areas
that
they
did
not
did
they
not
go
out
there
and
because
I
think,
that's
already
taken
place.
Some
in
some
places.
C
Well,
I
I'm
correct
not
at
a
retail
level
that
that
that
cannot
take
place
because
it's
illegal
electric
cooperatives
and
municipal
utilities
work
together
on
electric
issues
all
the
time
there
are
situations
where
towns
have
chosen
not
to
in
their
history,
chose
not
to
form
a
municipal
utility
and
granted
a
franchise
agreement
to
the
cooperative
to
provide
electric
service.
So
sometimes
those
those
types
of
agreements
might
might
get
confused
together,
but
no
under
current
law,
an
electric
cooperative
could
not
provide
broadband
service
to
a
customer
of
a
municipal
electric
system.
C
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
very
much,
I'm
as
someone
who's
been
under
a
municipal
electric
system
for
all
my
life.
This
is
new
information
and
very
impressive
information
too.
I
just
had
a
couple
questions
to
verify
what
you
said.
C
So
no,
you
can
compare
rates
of
individual
systems
and
it
stands
to
reason
that
a
municipal
provider
should
have
could
or
should
have
lower
rates
because
of
their
economy
of
scale,
and
it
is
often
the
case
that
the
cooperative
rates
are
higher
because
of
that
lack
of
economy
of
scale.
So
if
I
did
say
it
in
that
way,
forgive
me
if
I,
if
I
spoke
improperly,
but
no
our
the
statistic
I
put
on
the
screen
was
about
compared
to
the
national
average.
B
Thank
you
and
also
you're,
so
cooperatives
are
required
to
get
all
of
their
electric
power
from
tva.
C
Okay,
that
is
not
a
legal
requirement.
It
is
a
contractual
requirement.
Okay,
every
cooperative
in
the
state
has
is
currently
in
a
contract
with
tva
some,
the
minimum
term
of
that
contract
is
five
years.
The
maximum
term
of
that
contract
is
20
years
and
those
that
are
on
the
20-year
contract,
the
actually
in
both
cases,
those
contracts
automatically
renew
every
year.
C
So
if,
if
a
cooperative
would
have
decided
to
seek
another
power
supplier,
they
could
give
what's
called
give
notice
to
tva
that
they
intend
to
terminate
the
contract,
and
then
there
would
be
that
that
term
before
such
a
termination
could
actually
take
place,
and
so
the
term
is
different
based
on
the
contract,
but
it's
either
five
or
20
years.
Okay,
thank
you.
B
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Excuse
me
as
well
thanks
for
the
presentation,
obviously,
a
lot
of
great
knowledge
mike
we
appreciate
it
emps
are
we
protected
basically
against
emps
across
the
co-op
spectrum.
C
So
the
easy
answer
that
question
is
no
electromagnetic
pulse
devices.
That's
a
threat
that
to
the
electric
grid,
that's
universal,
not
in
just
in
tennessee,
but
in
america
and
the
world.
There
is
a
lot
of
conversation.
C
I
mentioned
some
of
those
three
letter
agencies
earlier
that
our
industry
works
closely
with
at
the
national
level,
and
that
is
absolutely
an
issue
that
we
pay
attention
to
and
work
on
and
are
concerned
about.
But
if
I
would
love
to
give
you
the
assurance,
that's
that,
should
such
a
device
be
detonated
in
tennessee,
that
we'd
be
okay,
but
I
can't
give
you
that
assurance.
D
Well,
what
do
we
do
to
make
sure
that
we
are
in
tennessee?
However,
it's
a
national
concern.
You
know
because-
and
there
are
devices
that
already
exist,
and
we
know
some
of
the
countries
have
them,
I'm
sure
we
may
have
in
my
portfolio.
You
never
know
who's
going
to
do
what
okay.
However,
the
deal
of
it
is,
is
that
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
worse
than
a
hacker,
because
it
kills
our
everything
we're
doing.
We
go
into
the
dark
ages
if
we
don't
have
the
protection.
C
That
was
a
heavy
question.
It
is
a
very
heavy
question
and
I'll
be
quick
to
say
that
is
way
above
my
pay
grade.
I
would
love
to
tell
you
that
there
was
an
easy,
easy
answer
to
your
question.
There's
not.
I
think
the
majority
of
that
answer
lies
in
counterterrorism
and
if
I
said
any
more
than
that,
I
would
be
writing
checks
that
I
can't
cash
so
I'll
probably
stop
there.
D
Okay,
that's
a
great
answer
because
it's
true
all
right
now:
let's
talk
about
also
energy
in
the
mix,
the
solar
fit
into
y'all's
equation.
Any.
C
C
We
we've
got
nike
we've
got
reebok,
we've
got
them
all,
and
so
what
I'm
very
proud
of
the
work
that
tva
does
is
that
their
the
mix
of
energy,
the
way
they
generate
electricity
and
transmit
it
to
us
is
very
diverse.
Okay,
they
have
a.
C
But
again
we
don't,
as
as
as
the
shoe
store
to
continue
my
metaphor,
we
don't
directly
generate
a
lot
of
solar
power,
but
we
encourage
it
and
a
number
of
our
owners
are
installing
it
themselves
in
their
homes
and
there's
a
process
for
that,
and
so
we're
we're
happy
about
where
things
are
going
with
solar.
Thank
you
for
that.
D
Mr
chairman,
as
as
it
relates
to
economic
skills
and
looking
at
just
shelby
county
one
of
my
colleagues
and
my
you
know,
neighbor
down
there
was
asking
about
municipalities
I'd
like
offline,
you
can
for
you
to
tell
us
how
your
co-ops
have
an
average
of
17
lower.
How
does
it
compare
specifically
to
our
area
down
there?
You
don't
have
to
do
it
now,
I'd
like
to
know
that
specifically
and
finally,
what
do
you
think
about
our
infrastructure?
Are
we
in
good
shape,
as
it
relates
to
cooperative
infrastructure
across.
C
C
From
the
only
speak
for
cooperatives,
we
feel
great
about
the
state
of
infrastructure.
Again
we
build
things
that
are
meant
to
last
50
to
75
years
oftentimes,
and
so
is
there
old
infrastructure
that
we
own
and
operate
absolutely.
Are
we
working
in
cycles
to
replace
and
refresh
those
things
as
needed?
Absolutely,
and
I
think
our
co-operators
are
doing
a
great
job
of
that
you're.
Welcome.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
one
of
my
questions
was
address
where
got
into
pricing
with
municipalities
and
co-ops,
because
I'm
a
tba
municipality
versus
the
co-op.
The
other
thing
that
was
mentioned
in
here
I
think
representative
powell's
mentioned
it
and.
A
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
if
we
got
anybody
else
because
kind
of
a
little
bit
of
housekeeping
we've
got
the
room
until
until
noon
and
we're
going
to
turn
it
over.
I
believe
the
municipal
folks
have
agreed
that,
if,
if
we
can,
we
can
extend
this,
but
we'll
probably
do
that
on
monday
I'll
give
an
announcement
for
that
it'll
be
an
extra
credit
day,
but
frankly
I
have
more.
A
I
have
more
questions
for
the
munis
than
I
have
anything
else
since
we
I
do
live
in
an
area
that
is
heavily
affected
by
the
municipal
provision
of
power,
but
I've
got
some
questions
for
our
guests
and-
and
it
has
to
do
with
this
ownership,
because
you
talk
about
owners
and
you
talk
about
members
and
a
member's,
not
necessarily
an
owner.
A
member
gets
to
have
access
to
something,
but
they
don't
have
equity
and
so
are
co-ops
owned
by
members
or
owners.
How's
equity
determined
in
this
equation.
C
That's
a
great
question
and
in
the
cooperative
in
the
cooperative
example,
they're
the
they're,
the
the
word
is
the
same:
the
equity
is
in
the
member
owner,
oftentimes,
we'll
hyphenate,
it
we'll
say,
member
owner.
So,
for
instance,
I'm
a
member
of
middle
tennessee,
electric,
it's
a
electric
cooperative.
If
that
cooperative
were
to
be
sold,
I
get
a
proportional
share
of
the
proceeds
of
that
sale.
The
equity
lies
with
me.
C
So
if
your
cooperative
has
25
000
members,
you
own
125,
000
of
the
cooperative,
so
each
your
membership
is
is
proportional
and
it's
based
on
your
membership
certificate.
A
C
A
All
right
with
regards
to
the
retained
earnings,
the
I
know,
you're
governed
by
a
board
of
directors,
and
so
there's
some
there's
some
connection
back
to
the
members,
because
the
board
is
actually
elected
by
the
members.
C
Yes,
all
right,
that's
so
what
the
way
that
so
the
way
that
works
to
be
to
be
clear.
So
we
provide
you
know
that
type
of
financial
information,
typically
through
our
annual
meeting
process,
it's
available
to
any
member
who
wishes
to
receive
it
simply
by
calling
the
cooperative
visiting
the
cooperative
so
that
yeah
that
that
level
of
information
is
available
when
those
margins
do
exist.
They're
allocated
to
individual
members,
so
you
as
a
as
a
member
of
the
cooperative,
a
portion
of
that
margin,
is
allocated
to
you.
C
C
That
requires
them
to
seek
to
provide
electric
power
at
the
lowest
feasible
cost
that
we
we
do
not
provide
those
refunds,
we
reinvest
them
and
so
what
the
the
net
effect
of
that
is,
rather
than
providing
a
you
know,
x,
number
of
dollars
of
refunds
and
then
the
next
year
needing
to
borrow
that
same
amount
of
money
in
order
to
build
a
new
substation.
For
instance,
we
use
the
we
use
the
cash
margin
to
invest
into
long-term
assets
and
therefore
our
debt
is
lower.
C
A
B
A
The
mail
yep
you
bring
up
an
interesting
perspective
though,
and
you
keep
referencing
the
tennessee
valley
act
of
1933
and
in
their
their
rate,
control
their
their
provision
of
rate.
They
don't
do
they
set
your
rates
or
does
your
local
board
set
your
rates
because
I'm.
C
Maybe
mishearing,
thank
you.
That's
that's
a
great
question.
The
local
board
will
set
the
rate
tva
approves
it,
so
the
tva
has
the
ability
to
say
no
that
rate's
not
consistent
with
your
financial
condition.
That's
not
consistent
with
the
criteria
they
set
forth.
So
there
is
a
process
by
which
tva
reviews
all
of
all
of
those
decisions.
A
All
right
so
we're
dealing
with
and
and
we're
getting
down
into
an
area.
That
is
that
I
find
to
be
fascinating
and
one
that's
fraught
with
risk
and
turmoil
as
well,
and
that
is
is
that
tva
serves
as
your
power
supplier,
yet
they're.
Also
your
regulator,
that
is
correct,
that's
goofy!
A
That
is
one
of
the
strangest
thing
and
I
understand
in
1933
when
you're
electrifying,
the
valley,
that's
that
we're
glad
they
did,
but
that,
but
that
seems
that
it's
fraught
with
peril
is
p,
particularly
in
an
environment
whenever
we're
talking
about
long-term
power
contracts
that
you
are
purchasing
from
your
regulator,
that's
something
that
is
to
me,
and
I
know
that
that's
a
federal
act
that
that
we
don't
have
purview
over,
but
it
seems
very
strange
to
me
that
this
industry
is
governed
by
its
wholesaler.
A
I
think
it's
something
that
that
is
troublesome,
and
it's
something
that
I
think
that,
because
right
now
we're
talking
about-
and
I
don't
mean
to
get
into
to
mr
elrod's
presentation-
but
we're
talking
about-
do
you
really
have
the
authority-
you
talked
about
your
power
supply
contract.
Do
you
really
have?
Is
it
really
in
your
interest
to
not
buy
your
power
from
the
tva,
because,
if
it's
not,
we
haven't
seen
what
it
looks
like
when
we
have
utilities
that
are
regulated
by
tva
that
are
not
wholesaled
by
tva?
A
C
It's
again,
it's
a
great
q.
That's
a
very
good
question.
The
way
I
would
answer
it
is
this:
the
overall
net
effect
of
the
partnership
for
lack
of
a
better
term
between
electric
cooperatives
and
tva
over
the
course
of
history
is
overwhelmingly
positive.
C
But
there
are
cooperatives
today
who
are
examining
the
very
questions
that
you're
asking,
and
so
there
are
a
number
of
cooperatives
who
have
entered
into
the
new
longer
term
agreement
because
they're
very
comfortable
with
their
relationship
with
tva.
There
are
also
cooperatives
who
are
examining
what
it
would
look
like
to
do
something
different
and
obviously
these
are
you
know
nine
figure,
type
decisions
that
require
a
tremendous
amount
of
due
diligence
and
are
would
be
groundbreaking,
at
least
in
term,
particularly
in
terms
of
the
state's
the
structure
under
which
electric
utilities
have
operated
in
this
state.
C
A
Well,
I
can,
I
can
assure
I
can
assure
the
the
co-ops
and
the
munis,
and
anybody
else
in
that
is
that
one
thing
about
an
electrical
system
is
that
it
is
a
grid
and
it
is
a
network,
and
one
thing
doesn't:
nothing
happens
in
a
vacuum
correct
across
this
network,
and
one
thing
that's
going
to
be
looked
at
by
that
that
will
come
at
some
point
into
our
laps
here
in
the
state.
Legislature
is
going
to
be.
A
B
Yes,
mr
chairman,
a
follow-up
on
a
question
that
you
asked
earlier
on
the
member
owner.
If
I'm
a
an
owner
of,
if
I
have
equity
in
a
company,
then
normally
that
equity
stays
with
me,
regardless
of,
if
I
move
or
you
know,
diet,
then
it
becomes
part
of
my
state
or
whatever,
but
a
member
owner
of
a
co-op
is
that
ownership
only
during
the
period
that
you're
being
served
by
the
co-ops?
Yes,
so
it's
it
really
is
a
different
definition
of
ownership
than
a
normal.
You
know
equity.
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
appreciate
you
being
here
appreciate.
I
know
your
headquarters
located
in
my
district,
so
I
appreciate
that
one
one
question:
I
think
that
I
wanted
to
ask
and
I'm
gonna
ask
this
of
others
too.
E
Is
we
have
a
unprecedented
obviously
from
the
infrastructure
investment
act
that
has
been
passed,
money
coming
down
from
the
federal
government,
a
lot
of
that's
going
to
be
left
up
to
the
states
on
how
to
allocate
that,
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
that
is
done,
equitable
and
spread
out
so
that
you
know
both
cities
and
rural
areas.
All
communities
have
access
not
just
to
energy,
clean
energy,
but
also
you
know
expanding
broadband.
E
C
Yeah,
that's
that's
an
excellent
question
and
again
I'll
gladly
say
that
maybe
a
little
bit
out
of
out
of
my
pay
grade,
I
will
say
we're
paying
very
close
attention
to
the
flow
of
these
funds.
Thus
far,
the
american
rescue
plan
act
has
focused
on
water,
sewer
and
broadband,
and
so
we're
paying
a
lot
of
attention
and
working
very
collaboratively
with
the
department
of
economic
community
development
specifically
about
the
broadband
portion
of
those
funds.
C
The
larger
piece,
the
the
the
infrastructure
bill
that
you
referred
to
came
from
washington.
There
is
still
quite
a
bit
of
detail
to
to
be
written.
A
lot
of
that
bill
was
in
washington
was
telling
different
departments,
federal
departments,
here's
money,
and
now
you
go
write
the
rules
on
how
that
money
is
going
to
be
used,
so
primarily
that
work
is
done
on
behalf
of
electric
cooperatives
by
our
national
trade
association,
the
national
rural
electric
cooperative
association
and
we're
engaged
deeply
in
those.
C
I
don't
have
a
ton
of
detail
to
share
with
you
about
that,
but
we
are
sensitive
to
the
topic
you
brought
up.
We
very
f
for
historically
have
had
to
have
those
conversations
to
say:
hey
sometimes
you
know
if
the
congress
sees
a
tax
credit
as
against
federal
income
tax
as
the
way
to
incent
an
activity-
hey
that
leaves
us
us
out
because
we're
we're
not-for-profit
entities
and
so
we're
used
to
engaging
in
that
way.
I
wish
I
had
a
more
specific
answer
for
you.
A
D
For
a
good
job,
y'all
do
and
david
callus
in
the
audience
and
chris
jones,
you
know
y'all.
Recently
speaking
economy
skills,
y'all
picked
up,
acquired
murphys
for
electric,
which
I
thought
was
a
wise
decision.
The
partnership
with
the
with
united
communication
is
just
awesome.
I
mean
I
was
talk.
Speaking
our
county
commission
broadband
has
been
a
big
big
concern
for
a
lot
of
the
rural
county
commissioners
and
I
just
looked
up
the
reviews
of
united
communications
like
714
ratings
like
95
percent.
D
When
I
first
got
elected
up
here,
I
was
a
little
distrustful
of
co-ops
and
you
know
I
always
kind
of
see
myself
as
a
private
sector
kind
of
guy,
but
I
see
how
I
mean
to
me
with
all
the
problems
in
the
world.
It's
refreshing
to
know.
You
can
turn
that
electric
on
you
know
you
got
like
you
got.
Electric
heat
pump
work,
your
blower
and
your
you
know
natural
gas
units
working.
I
mean
it's,
it's
refreshing
with
all
the
problems,
but
we
had
a
transformer
go
out.
D
A
few
months
ago,
man
I
looked
out
y'all
had
a
truck
there
within
five
minutes.
You
know
my
father-in-law
was
a
lineman
and
when
I
was
dating
my
wife,
I
watched
him
get
up
two
in
the
morning
three
in
the
morning
snow
and
ice
go
to
work
fell
off
a
telephone
pole
once
watched
one
of
his
fellow
linemen
get
killed
with
nes,
and
so
I
appreciate
you
when
the
other
reps
recognize
them,
but
your
tennessee
magazine
read
it.
D
Every
month
I
enjoy
bill
carey's
column
and
just
want
to
say
thank
you
to
jeff
davis
and
joe
marciani
with
united
for
always
communicating
with
with
us,
but
it's
refreshing
I
mean,
I
think
y'all
probably
got
one
of
the
best
co-ops
in
the
nation.
Would
you
say.
D
I
mean
you
really
do
and
and
when
the
blue
angel
went
down,
that's
my
district
right
there
we
named
the
bridge
after
him
very
and
I
don't
know
if
anybody's
got
go
by
there
and
jeff.
I
see
jeff
captain
jeff
goose's
memorial
that
smyrna's
done
a
great
job
mayor
reid
did
a
great
job
with
that.
So
I
just
want
to
say
hats
off
to
what
y'all
do.
C
D
In
order
to
our
power
state,
we
still
have
lower,
really
low
cost
in
tennessee
compared
to
the
rest
of
the
country.
From
what
I've
seen
what
I've
read,
that's
correct.
We
got
really
really
really
good
rates
and
a
joke
and
say
you're
picking
a
whistle
don't
mean
that,
what's
it
gonna
blow,
we
gotta
make
sure
that
we
thoroughly
look
at
what
it
is,
because
once
it's
like
humpty
dumpty
set
his
butt
on
the
wall
and
hump
the
dumpling
had
a
great
fall.
C
Well,
I
I
would,
sir,
sir,
I
would
encourage
you
to
applaud
the
local
utilities
in
this
state
that
low
rate,
low
retail
rate
that
that
customers
enjoy
is
largely
due
to
that
low
margin
that
I
talked
about
earlier
that
the
local
utility
enjoys.
C
We
can
have
a
much
longer
discussion
about
the
current
state
of
tba's
rates
for
wholesale
power,
but
it
is
the
it
is.
The
is
the
hard
work
and
diligence
of
your
local
utility.
That
is
keeping
that
that
local
rate,
that
retail
rate,
where
it
is
below
those
national
averages
and.
D
A
You
and
I
can't
think
of
any
better
segue
than
humpty
dumpty.
With
regards
to
to
this
one
of
the
one
of
the.
I
appreciate
the
the
committee
members
staying
with
us
through
these
conversations,
because
when
we
start
looking
at
reliability
versus
rates,
that's
a
that's
a
question
that
we're
always
gonna
gonna
have
to
to
have
to
reconcile
ourselves
with
and
and
just
so
y'all
know
why
I
like
to
geek
out
on
electric
supply.
A
Not
only
am
I
a
licensed
electrical
engineer,
but
my
first
job
after
farm
labor
was,
I
was
on
the
working
end
of
a
temp
tamping
power
poles
at
bolivar.
Electric
department
shout
out
to
earl
dillinger
my
line
crewman
my
line
foreman,
but
anyway,
thank
you
for
being
here.
The
the
statutory
references
you
gave
were
extraordinarily
helpful
to
us.
I
think
it
I
can
speak
for
those
of
us
who
haven't
heard
presentations
like
this,
that
it
was.