►
Description
House - Criminal Justice Subcommittee - February 14, 2023
A
B
C
A
All
right
members,
we've
got
a
calendar
here,
we're
going
to
Jump
Right
In
item
number
one
house
bill
1031
by
representative
hurt.
You
are
recognized.
D
Thank
you
Mr
chairman
and
committee
members
I'm
here
today
to
present
to
you
house,
bill
1031
on
behalf
of
speaker,
Sexton
members.
If
you
remember
back
last
year,
we
had
a
tragedy
in
Memphis.
The
lies
are
fled,
Liza,
Fletcher
tragedy
and
in
response
to
that,
ad
hoc
committee
was
formed
to
look
into.
Maybe
what
could
have
been
done
or
things
that
led
to
that
tragedy
occurring,
and
one
of
the
main
things
that
jumped
out
was
that
the
accused
perpetrator
in
that
case
had
over
50
tdoc
violations,
and
he
was
still
released
four
years
early.
D
The
purpose
of
the
board
is
to
oversee
the
current
disciplinary
board,
recommendations
for
awarding
and
removing
sentence
credits.
There
are
limited
policies
regarding
regarding
the
disciplinary
boards
for
each
state
prison.
For
example,
the
attorney
Center
industrial
complex
has
54
disciplinary
board
members,
while
the
West
Tennessee
State
Penitentiary
has
six
members
creating
a
Statewide
oversight.
Disciplinary
board
promotes
Public
Safety,
while
ensuring
across
the
board
that
each
case
is
treated
under
the
same
rules.
D
E
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
representative.
Thank
you
so
much
for
carrying
this.
On
behalf
speaker.
It's
it's
been
a
really
really
help.
What's
going
on,
not
just
in
Memphis
where
I
live
and
the
people
that
I
represent,
but
I
think
it
will
also
bring
some
comfort
to
my
friends,
the
the
Fletchers
and
the
organs
and
that
entire
family,
so
I
just
want
to
thank
you
and
I'm
in
full
support
of
this
bill.
F
I
guess
I'm
curious,
definitely
was
an
issue
in
this
situation
and
somebody,
it
was,
is
necessary
to
look
at
those
credits
and
all
of
that.
But
is
there
not
a
requirement
we
can
make
with
the
current
organization
to
to
cover
this
rather
than
creating?
You
know,
spending
Millions
on
this
new
oversight
committee.
F
It
looks
to
me
like:
is
there
a
possibility
of
something
that
we
can
already
do,
making
certain
requirements
with
a
current
groups
that
see
that
oversee
this
or
that
do
this
and
manage
them
better?
Is
that
a
possibility.
D
Thank
you
for
that
question,
but
I
would
say
that
that
having
one
autonomous
board
that
oversees
to
to
make
sure
it's
all
looked
at
from
the
same
view
across
the
state,
each
individual
situation
would
be
much
better
than
trying
to
amend
or
change
with
the,
for
example,
the
54
members
on
one
board
and
six
on
the
other
I'm
trying
to
let
them
do
their
thing.
But
having
one
autonomous
board
to
overlook
it
would
be
more
balanced.
F
A
You
thank
you.
Members.
We've
got
one
person
here
that
would
like
to
testify
on
this
bill,
so
we're
going
to
go
out
of
session
hear
from
Ben
Rabin.
That
is
correct.
A
If
you
would
there's
a
little
button
on
that
microphone,
you
can
push
it'll
turn
red.
Introduce
yourself
for
the
record.
You'll
have
three
minutes
for
your
comments.
H
Thank
you.
My
name
is
Ben
Rabin
I'm,
a
criminal
defense
attorney
and
I'm
here
on
behalf
of
the
Tennessee
Association
of
criminal
defense
lawyers.
We
have
some
significant
concerns
about
the
impact
of
this
bill
for
a
number
of
reasons.
First
of
all,
I
believe
that
this
would
be
basically
an
impossible
undertaking
by
the
review
board.
There
are
about
28
000
inmates
across
the
state
that
are
currently
serving
sentences
in
our
jails
and
prisons.
H
Most
of
them
are
getting
credits
of
some
sort
or
could
earn
credits
of
some
sort,
and
this
bill
contemplates
that
this
review
board
will
review
each
and
every
set
of
credits
that
may
be
earned
by
the
inmates
that
are
earning
those,
and
so
if
we
assume
that
all
of
those
28
000
inmates
are
having
a
review
done
each
month
and
it
takes
a
minute
to
review
each
of
those
inmates
records
that
comes
out
to
about
117
hours
per
week
if
we
just
spend
a
minute
on
each
one.
H
So
if
we
have
a
40
hour
work
week
for
this
review
board
and
again
it
less
than
that,
but
it's
going
to
be
well
above
40
hours
a
week.
H
The
fiscal
note
on
this
bill
estimates
two
million
dollars,
which
is
just
for
the
review
board
itself.
The
the
fiscal
note
says
that
they
can't
calculate
the
actual
cost
for
increased
sentences
due
to
a
number
of
of
unknown
factors
is
in
the
review
note,
which
I
think
should
be
the
first
red
flag
that
they
can't
even
estimate
how
much
additional
time
inmates
will
be
serving
if
they're
not
getting
the
credits
that
they
may
be
getting
now.
I
looked
on
the
tdotc
website.
Again,
they
estimate
about
79
dollars
per
inmate
per
day.
H
Tdoc
already
has
regulations
on
the
books
that
say
that
you
can
only
get
good
time
credits
if
you're
not
getting
write-ups
if
you're
not
in
maximum
custody
or
punitive
segregation.
We
already
have
records
on
rules
on
the
books
that
tdoc
has
and
if
those
could
be
enforced,
better
I'd
suggest
that
we
should
start
with
that.
Instead
of
creating
an
entirely
new
apparatus
of
this
board,
that
will
be
stuck
with
basically
forever.
That
could
have
significant
unintended
consequences
and
costs
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
any
questions.
I
Thank
you,
chairman
and
good
afternoon
to
you,
sir,
thank
you
for
being
here.
What's
the
purpose
of
these
credits.
H
The
credit,
the
purpose
of
the
credits
are
to
incentivize
good
behavior.
That
inmates
have,
you
know,
a
sentence
of
let's
say:
10
years,
with
eligibility
for
release
after
a
certain
percentage
and
the
ideas
by
having
good
behavior
taking
classes,
not
getting
in
fights
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
be
doing,
then
that
can
allow
them
to
shorten
their
sentence,
which
helps
the
inmates
and
the
correction
staff
and
everybody.
I
H
I
think
that
that
question
presents
some
really
troubling
thoughts
of
of
you
know.
If
inmates
are
no
longer
having
those
incentives
that
if
they
stay
out
of
trouble,
they
can
shorten
their
sentences
and
the
you
know
what
this
bill
does.
H
And
I
know
that
in
in
both
state-run
and
private
prison
facilities
across
the
states,
there's
huge
staffing
issues
and
I
would
certainly
think
that
you
know
the
staffing
issues
themselves
create
issues
as
well
as
the
violence
of
of
you
know,
dealing
with
inmates
who
are
not
behaving
and
and
if
that
increases
I
would
certainly
expect
that
to
lead
to
further
staffing
issues
which
will
just
promote
more
issues
of
of
getting
inmates
to
behave
because
the
more
Staffing
there
is
the
more
Corrections
Officers
available.
I.
H
I
All
right,
then,
and
I
appreciate
you
being
here
Mr
chairman:
we
have.
We
have
murders
and
kidnappings
of
women
in
Memphis
and
Nashville
and
Knoxville
and
Chattanooga
on
a
regular
basis.
I
I
want
to
do
something
about
it,
but
I
don't
want
the
community
to
be
under
the
false
impression
that
we're
delivering
help
when
in
actuality,
we're
not
sure
what
we're
delivering
and
I'm
I'm
really
concerned
about
the
risk
factor
for
the
inmates
and
our
guards,
who
it's
already
difficult,
Mr
chairman
to
to
hire
enough
and
to
hire
qualified
guards
already
so
I'm
concerned,
because
there's
some
answers
that
we
just
don't
seem
to
have
for
this
bill,
so
I
have
concern
going
forward.
Thank
you
for
being
here.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
J
There's
a
young
lady
I've
been
trying
to
help
for
years
who
the
man
who
killed
her
husband
in
front
of
her,
sent
her
letters
continuing
to
stalk
her
from
inside
the
prison
and
yet
got
good
time
and
behavior
credit
the
entire
time
until
the
federal
government
finally
prosecuted
him,
and
he
got
convicted
of
it
and
we're
still
trying
to
get
him
to
take
away
his
good
time
and
behavior
credit.
It
still
hasn't
happened,
so
these
local
boards
are
not
working
as
well
as
they
should,
and
this
puts
another
level
of
oversight
in
it.
J
Most
of
what
you
said,
I
agree
with
I
want
there
to
be
a
very
you
know,
very
linear
path
for
folks
that
are
in
prison
to
be
able
to
earn
these
credits,
but
I
also
want
it
to
work
well
to
protect
everybody
else,
both
that
works
at
a
prison
and
are
outside
of
a
prison.
So
if
you
can
help
me
understand
the
two
distinctions
and
kind
of
what
I'm
hearing
you
argue
on
both
sides
of
this
sure.
H
Well,
first
of
all,
I
think
it'd
be
good
to
have
more
data,
I
mean
we
have
anecdotal
evidence
on
both
sides
and
I've
talked
to
inmates
who
feel
like
they
are
behaving
well
that
maybe
aren't
getting
the
credits
they
should,
and
then
we
have
people
who
we've
seen,
aren't
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
be
doing
and
are
still
getting
the
credits,
but
I
think
that
I'd
be
certainly
interested
to
know,
particularly
for
fiscal
notes,
and
things
like
that
of
how
many
is
it
on
both
sides,
I
mean
we
should
have
the
data
of
how
many
write-ups
they're
getting
because,
at
least
under
the
current
system.
H
One
of
the
I
mean
it's
pretty
rigid
about.
If
you
have
class
A
write-ups,
if
you're
in
minimum
versus
maximum
and
all
that
data
should
be
out
there
and
I
think
it
would
be
helpful
to
see
what
that
data
is
to
see.
You
know
what's
happening
and
also
why
it's
not
happening
and
I
think
that
you
know
talking
to
tdoc.
You
know,
if
you
have
these
policies,
are
they
not
being
followed?
Why
are
not
that?
Are
they
not
being
followed
and
I?
H
H
If
you
get
a
Class
A
write-up
I
mean,
could
that
not
be
put
in
the
computer,
and
you
know
flag
something
in
the
you
know
electronically,
where
you
don't
even
need
a
human
to
do
it
instead
of
having
this
whole
bureaucracy
to
review
things
and
you're
asking
the
wardens
and
the
sheriffs
to
do
more
work,
they're,
creating
more
paperwork,
it's
getting
sent
out,
and
is
there
a
way
we
could
actually
make
it
more
efficient
instead
of
bigger
to
ultimately
get
to
I
think
the
same
place
that
we're
all
looking
for?
Okay,.
J
K
The
thing
about
sermon,
actually
a
lot
of
the
chairman,
actually
kind
of
helps
me
to
segue
into
what
it
is
that
I
was
interested
in.
How
can
you
make
this
particular
system
better,
because
some
of
the
what
he
shared
with
me,
I'm,
familiar
with
those
cases
and
the
young
lady-
has
been
trying
to
help
for
a
while?
But
do
you
see
angles
or
additional
policy
that
could
be
introduced?
That
could
make
it
better
as
we
speak
and
have
you
all
collaborated
and
talking
about
how
to
do
that.
H
H
This
is
something
that
we've
seen
relatively
recently
and
so
we're
still
trying
to
get
our
heads
around
it,
but
I
I
would
I
mean
personally
think
that
maybe
an
internal
you
know
within
tdoc
approach
makes
the
most
sense
of
one
just
find
out
what
the
data
looks
like
what's
going
on
here
and
is
there
a
way
that
we
can
just
enforce
the
existing
policies
better
and
maybe
have
some
sort
of
review
body
of
some
sort,
but
have
it
be
to
look
at
what's
going
on,
make
sure
that
things
are
being
followed
as
opposed
to
what
this
is,
which
is
a
higher
separate
board
that
everything
has
to
go
through
for
approval,
as
opposed
to
just
making
sure
that
what's
there
is
being
followed
and
I?
H
Well,
I
can
tell
you
what
the
policy
says
about.
Basically,
if
you're,
if
you're
not
getting
write-ups-
and
you
know
you
get
credits
for
that,
you
get
more
credits
the
longer
that
you've
been
in
without
getting
write-ups
if
you're
not
in
maximum
custody.
Things
like
that,
and
so
you
know,
I
can
see
what
those
policies
are,
but
what
I
don't
know
and
what
I'm
not
sure
I
mean.
H
Certainly
with
the
fiscal
note
reviewing
the
data,
we
don't
seem
to
know
exactly
how
many
people
are
getting,
how
many
credits
and
how
many
there
are
maybe
not
supposed
to
be
getting
them.
That
are
I'm,
not
sure,
if
that,
if
those
numbers
have
been
crunched
but
I
think
that'd
be
very
helpful
to
see
I'd.
K
H
I
I,
don't
know
the
the
the
ins
and
outs
of
it.
I
mean
I
know
that
tdoc
is
solely
responsible
for
administrating.
That
I
know
that
it's
done
they
they
have.
You
know
calculations
and
things
like
that,
but
I
generally
speaking,
I
think
the
default
is
that
they
would
be
getting
credits.
But
if
you
commit
certain
violations,
then
those
can
be
taken
away.
H
A
Yes,
sir,
we
do,
however,
they
are
not
on
the
list
for
Testimony,
so
I
would
encourage
you
to
reach
out
to
them
after
the
committee
is
over
with
and
they
can
get
you
those
answers.
Okay,.
K
With
that
Mr
chairman,
let's
see
I'll,
wait
to
hear
some
some
other
debate,
I
guess
on
it
yeah
testimony.
Thank
you.
F
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
guess
to
to
go
a
little
bit
further
with
my
colleague
who
talked
about
Behavior
inside
and
how,
without
that
incentivate
incentivization
that
perhaps
it
would
be
worse
than
than
normal
and
I
know
that
or
somewhere
around
90
percent
of
incarcerated
folks
will
be
released
at
some
point,
there's
also
research
that
we
have
from
quite
a
wide
body
of
research.
F
That
shows
if
those
incentives
are
just
randomly
and
you
know,
are
taken
away
and
not
given
that
what
we
see
is
if
there's
no
incentive
inside
a
lot
of
people,
don't
take
classes
and
our
community
is
less
safe
when
people
are
released
because
they
didn't
do
those
things.
Is
that
a
concern
here
at
all
or.
H
Absolutely
that
would
certainly
be
a
concern
that
I
would
have
and
clients
that
I've
talked
to
I
mean
most
of
the
people
who
I
talk
to
for
parole,
hearings
and
things
like
that.
I
mean
they
want
to
do
good.
They
want
to
do
everything
they
can
for
when
they
get
in
front
of
the
parole
board
to
say:
hey,
I've
had
good
behavior
I've,
gotten
all
my
credits
and
because
they
want
to
see
that
reward
be
basically
and
I.
Think
there's
carrots
and
sticks.
H
Basically,
you
reward
good
behavior
and
punish
bad
behavior
and
I
think
it's
just
human
nature,
basically
to
to
create
incentives,
and
if
especially,
if
you
take
away
the
possibility
of
incentives
that
they
have
now
and
they
learn,
hey
I
may
not
be
getting
these
credits
after
all,
I
think
there's
a
real
risk
of
of
bad
things
happening.
F
H
You
know
if
you've
had
drugs,
if
you
had
cell
phones
or
whatever
is
sort
of
what
they're
doing
and
then
from
there
that
should
be
triggering
automatic,
either
loss
of
credits
or
failure
to
get
credits
that
you
would
otherwise
be
getting,
and
that
seems
like
that's,
where
the
breakdown
is
it's
not
necessarily
that
I
mean
people
are
getting
write-ups
all
the
time
for,
if
not
doing
what
they're
supposed
to
be
doing,
it
seems
like
the
disconnect
is.
A
L
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
just
to
clear
up
some
of
this
and
by
the
way,
Tennessee
Department
of
Corrections
has
a
Monumental
Monumental
task
that
they
keep
up
with
and
and
do
most
things
quite
well.
What
came
out
of
this
ad
hoc
meeting
was
a
discovery
that
sentencing
credits
are
automatic,
they
just
occur
automatically
and
if
somebody
behaves
in
a
poor
manner
or
and
I'm
not
talking
about
they
spit
on
the
sidewalk
I
mean
pretty
serious
things.
L
L
How
did
sentencing
credits
keep
on
going
on
automatically,
and
why
did
he
only
lose
one
month
when,
when
he
committed
these
offenses,
so
I
think
that
those
recommendations
came
out
of
the
ad
hoc
committee
to
do
what
we
could
do
to
fix
that
so
I
I
would
suspect
that
the
majority
of
this
board's
time
will
be
looking
at
removing
sentencing
credits
for
wrong
and
wrongful
Behavior,
rather
than
focusing
on
the
average
inmate
that
doesn't
commit
crime
while
he's
in
there.
He
does
obey
the
rules
and
that
kind
of
thing
right
there.
D
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
that
Mr
chairman
out
there
and
think
you're
exactly
right,
because
this
is
not
about
not
awarding
credits
for
good
behavior.
It's
on
the
bad
behavior
on
the
over
50
violations.
We
saw,
he
was
still
released.
You
know
four
years
early
or
how
it
was
four
years
early.
So
I
think
it's
more
about
what
kind
of
teeth
are
in
the
penalties
for
the
violation.
So
thank
you
for
that.
M
Thank
you
and
sponsor
I
do
want
to
thank
you
too.
You
know
when
we
heard
that
news
it
it's
changed
it.
It
brought
up
a
lot
of
conversation
with
within
our
families
within
our
friend
groups.
M
It
was
truly
terrifying
and
shocking
to
think
that
something
like
that
could
happen,
and
so
I
think
I'm
thankful
for
your
bill,
because
you
know
the
worst
thing
is
for
that
family
to
always
have
that
what?
If
what
if
this
had
been
taken
care
of
promptly
so
I
think
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
bringing
that
bill,
and
let
you
know
that
it's
it.
It
was
a
terrible
shock
to
our
whole
state
in
the
country,
and
this
is
a
way
for
us
to
show
the
country
how
we
can
do
things
better.
H
A
J
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
and
to
the
sponsor
of
the
Bill.
Thank
you
for
bringing
this
legislation
I
appreciate
both
you
and
our
speaker
leading
on
this,
and
it
really
did
I
appreciate
chairman
Halsey
chairing
those
committees
over
the
summer,
and
it
just
was
obvious.
There
needs
to
be
more
oversight
here
it
just.
It
should
never
be
that
these
credits
are
being
either
awarded
or
not
awarded,
without
really
good
supervision
and
oversight
over
it.
J
To
ensure
that
it's
being
done
properly,
I
mean
that
that's
our
role
is
to
make
sure
that
people
of
the
state
are
served
well
and
specifically
in
this
realm,
that
they're
kept
safe
from
folks
that
have
committed
Sometimes,
some
very
heinous
crimes
and
look
if,
if
under
the
law,
they've
earned
that
good
time,
then
they
should
get
it,
but
if
they
hadn't,
they
absolutely
absolutely
should
not,
because
every
day
that
they
get
good
time,
credit
that
they
did
not
earn
is
a
day
earlier
that
a
violent
felon
is
released
into
our
communities
to
go
on
and
create
a
new
victim,
which
is
exactly
what
happened
in
Memphis
and
has
happened
throughout
the
state
from
time
to
time.
J
N
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
bringing
the
bill.
I
appreciate
that
I
do
have
one
question
and
I'm
just
trying
to
do
the
numbers
in
my
head
and
I
understand
the
Genesis
of
this
bill,
which
was
a
travesty.
It
really
was
and
we
have
to
do
something
about
oversight,
but
in
looking
at
the
numbers
we
have
between
County
and
state
prison
facilities.
We
have
about
28
000
inmates,
and
this
is
a
seven
member
board,
I'm
wondering
administratively
how
they're
going
to
sift
through
this
data
to
find
out
who
gets
what
administer.
N
D
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
for
that
question.
That's
a
fair
question
and
it
absolutely
is
will
be
a
Monumental
task,
which
is
one
reason.
It's
a
full-time
board
with
employees
underneath
those
board
members
in
order
to
sift
through
the
the
huge
number
of
violations
and
cases
they
would
have
to
look
at
and
that's
a
fair
question.
We
had
a
fair
question
earlier
that
that
we
need
to
get
some
information
on
and
Mr
chairman.
A
All
right,
thank
you
very
much
with
that
objection.
Roll
10
31
one
week.
I
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
and
to
the
sponsor
I,
appreciate
the
intention
and
and
where
you're
trying
to
go
with
this,
and
it
may
very
well
be
that
you
get
enough
information
and
that
you
put
it
into
a
a
style
that
I
can
actually
support,
but
I
appreciate
you
accepting
the
challenge
to
collect
more
data.
Thank
you,
sir.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
Yes,.
A
Sir
item
number
two
House
Bill
290
by
Mr,
chairman
kiesling.
You
are
properly
recognized.
O
O
Needless
to
say,
but
House
Bill
290,
Mr
chairman
it
does,
it
is
relative
to
Diversion
to
the
diversion
application.
If
you
will
recall
members
during
their
during
Governor
Lee's
first
year
in
office,
he
called
for
and
the
state
legislature,
we
unanimously
passed
the
elimination
of
the
state
expungement
fee.
O
We
recognize
that
by
removing
Financial
barriers,
we
can
help
first-time
offenders
get
their
life
back
on
track.
This
bill
is
simply
a
continuation
of
that
the
bill
would
eliminate
the
currently.
The
the
bill
would
eliminate
the
100
application
fee
for
a
diversionary
or
divisionary
diversionary
program
for
first-time
offenders.
Diversion
is
exclusively
for
individuals
with
no
prior
convictions
and
that's
very
important,
no
prior
convictions.
This
fee
is
currently
being
assessed
to
people
who
are
seeking
a
second
chance.
O
Literally,
there
are
two
types
just
as
a
reminder.
There
are
two
types
of
diversionary
programs:
the
pre-trial
and
Judiciary.
Both
are
used
to
give
defendants
a
chance
to
avoid
a
criminal
record
on
a
criminal
defense,
defendant's
request
for
Diversion.
The
defendant
must
pay
again
the
hundred
dollars
in
order
to
obtain
the
application
for
certification
of
eligibility
for
diversion,
which
is
a
document
completed
by
the
TBI
as
a
prerequisite
and
finally
members,
you
may
recall
that
this
is
the
same
bill.
O
As
you
see
at
the
at
the
physical
note,
you
can
understand
that,
but
you
may
recall
that
this,
but
we,
but
we
do
hope
that
this
hopefully
can
be
addressed
this
time
if
we,
if
we
can
get
to
continue
to
get
movement
on,
and
so
at
this
time,
Mr
chairman
I
will
entertain
any
questions
and
I
might
add,
members
that
the
chairman
has
worked
with
us
just
in
case
there's.
O
We
do
have
do
have
some
someone
here
in
in
order
to
give
some
testimony
or
questions
if,
if
I
can't
so
with
that
again,
Mr
chairman.
A
Thank
you,
chairman
representative
towns,
had
a
question
for
you.
K
O
I
Well,
thank
you
very
much
and
just
Mr
chairman
I
know
I'm
out
of
order
taking
a
personal
moment
at
this
time,
but
this
bow
tie
is
Miss.
Barbara,
Cooper's,
favorite
bow
tie
and
that's
why
I
wear
it
wonderful
and,
unlike
in
the
past,
I'm
not
going
to
untie
it
to
prove
to
her
that
I
can
type.
O
I
You
Mr
chairman
for
that
that
little
bit
of
deviation
from
the
the
routine
here,
but
to
the
sponsor,
when
these
individuals
who
cannot
raise
a
hundred
dollars,
are
able
to
get
their
record
clear
and
move
on
and
start
paying
taxes
and
contributing
becoming
real
contributing
citizens
in
society.
O
Well,
of
course,
this
was
brought
to
me
by
as
a
matter
of
fact,
the
the
gentleman
here
with
me
today
is
Mr
Evan
Wright
attorney
Evan
Rod
of
my
dad,
and
he
has
seen
this
day
in
and
day
out
in
his
practice
there
in
Fentress,
County
so
I.
Quite
honestly,
I'm
not
kicking
the
count
on
you,
but
I
think
he'd
be
better
to
address
that
question
than
than
I.
If
granted
permission
to
for
Testimony.
I
Well,
but
you
would
agree
that
the
more
that
we're
able
to
put
folks
back
on
the
right
path
put
them
into
situations
where
they're
self-sustained
the
better.
For
you
me
and
the
rest.
O
I
You
I
think
Mr
chairman,
we'll
see
well
more
than
a
hundred
dollars
in
savings
when
we
just
look
at
the
contributions
to
society
that
these
folks
are
going
to
make.
O
I
So
I
thank
you
for
that.
I
wish
that
was
reflected
in
the
the
physical
note,
so
I'm
going
to
give
you
a
verbal
amendment
to
that
physical
note.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
chairman.
Thank
you
sponsor
for
the
Bill.
Thank
you,
representative.
A
K
Chairman,
a
couple
of
things
first
thing
is
that,
while
miss
Cooper
loved
that
bow
tie,
it
wasn't
the
member
that
she
loved
the
best
I
just
want
you
all
to
know
that
I
was
the
member
that
she
loved
the
best
okay
and
and
Mr
chairman
representative
spreading
love
around.
Who,
on
the
day
is,
do
you
love
the
most
up
here?
I
just
want
to
know.
A
A
P
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
of
committee,
House,
Bill,
482,
delves
into
a
statute
that
deals
with
a
tax
on
our
critical
infrastructure
and
what
it
does
is
it
it
seeks
to
raise
that
from
a
classy
felony
to
a
class
C
felony,
and
it's
really
that
simple,
we've
seen
in
recent
years,
particularly
about
the
time
of
the
this
year.
P
At
the
same
time
as
the
blackouts
that
we
experienced
because
of
the
weather
in
North
Carolina,
there
was
a
an
attack
on
an
electrical
substation
that
brought
down
a
utility
there
and
we've
started
to
see
this
more
on
the
west
coast.
And
so
we
recognize
that
critical
infrastructure
is
just
that.
It
is
critical
and
we
want
to
stiffen
the
Penalty
to
ensure
that
people
break
that
crime.
They
will
experience
a
harsher
punishment.
Mr
chairman
I'll,
take
any
questions.
K
You
it's
good
to
see
this
bill.
I
have
something
similar
to
dealing
with
our
infrastructure,
but
I.
Think,
since
that
trend
has
started
around
the
country,
we
need
to
figure
out
some
additional
measures,
I
believe
to
try
to
catch
these
guys
before
they
do
it
because,
as
you
indicated
it
it's
an
impact
on
all
of
us
and
it's
very,
very
dangerous
I
think
we've
had
within
the
last
two
or
three
months.
Maybe
what
two
or
three
attempts
that
I'm
familiar
with
that
made?
K
G
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
thank
you,
Mr,
representative
Boyd,
for
bringing
this.
My
question
has
to
do
with
specifically
about
critical
infrastructure.
Would
schools
be
included
in
that
and
the
reason
why
I
asked
that
is
because
I
can
see
seniors,
doing
donuts
on
the
soccer
field,
and
you
know
that's
more
than
a
thousand
dollars,
so
that's
kind
of
I
don't
want
them
to
be
charged
with
a
higher
level,
felony
of
just
being
a
stupid
kid.
L
Thank
you
to
the
sponsor
the
bill.
I
I
got
a
little
bit
of
problem
here.
You
you've
got
a
monetary
value
of
a
thousand
dollars.
You
can
commit
vandalism
up
to
a
thousand
dollars
to
misdemeanor,
and
yet,
if
you
commit
a
thousand
dollars
worth
of
damage
under
your
bill
now,
it's
a
classy
felony
to
me.
That
is
pretty
inconsistent
in
the
in
the
whole
structure
of
of
the
categories
of
of
crimes.
P
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
and
so
I
should
have
clarified
that
we're
leaving
that
section
along
if
it's
a
thousand
or
less
it
will
remain
The
Classy
felony
that
it
currently
is,
it
has
to
be
a
the
damage,
has
to
be
greater
than
a
thousand
dollars
for
it
to
fall
into
the
Class
C
category.
L
P
Correct
Douglas
chairman:
no,
this
would
be
the
Destroyer.
You
know
the
the
this
will
be
the
destruction
or
sabotage
of
critical
infrastructure.
This
is
not
vandalism.
This
would
be,
and
and
almost
any
crime
that
would
be
done
in
this
category
would
probably
exceed
a
thousand
dollars.
But
what
the
bill
seeks
to
do
is
to
go
up
for
those
people
that
would
bring
down
our
electrical
Grid
or
our
fresh
water
supply,
natural
gas
supply,
and-
and
so
that's
what
the
bill
is
seeking
to
do.
P
And
and
so
we
recognized
that
there
was
a
thousand
dollar
threshold,
or
you
know
that
if
we
made
that
a
class
C
felony
that
was
going
to
be
problematic
and
would
probably
get
thrown
out
in
court,
so
we
left
it
where
it
currently
is,
which
is
a
classy
felony.
So
this
only
applies
to
charges
greater
than
that
and
I.
You
know
there
would
be
the
discretion.
I
mean
that
the
prosecutor
would
have
somewhat
discretion.
It
doesn't
guarantee
that
it's
a
class
C
felony,
but
they
could
go
that
high
if
they
wanted
to.
N
Thank
you
for
sharing
to
the
sponsor.
I
must
say
that
as
someone
who's
carrying
a
little
infrastructure
bill,
this
session
I
appreciate
your
bill
and
I'll
be
glad
to
sign
on
to
it.
Thank
you.
F
P
The
the
prosecutor
could
go
as
high
as
a
Class
C,
but
it's
not
a
guarantee
that
that
it
would
that
they
would.
They
would
pursue
that
with
prosecution.
F
J
Well,
Mr
chairman
I
share
one
of
my
one
of
our
chairman
zealup
here
on
this
piece
of
legislation
and
strongly
supported.
I
just
think
critical
infrastructure
ought
to
be
off
limits.
It
has
such
a
devastating
effect
on
a
community
if
a
Transformer
gets
taken
out
or
any
other
part
of
critical
infrastructure
that
that
goes
Way
Beyond.
J
What
the
damage
to
that
item
is,
and
so
with
all
due
respect
or
certain
other
chairman
up
here,
whom
I
dearly
love
and
is
wonderful
and
I
say
that
on
Valentine's,
Day,
purposefully,
I'm
going
to
agree
with
the
chairman
furthest
to
my
left
and
just
say:
I
really
support
your
bill.
It's
it's
a
fantastic
piece
of
legislation.
Thank
you
for
bringing
it.
A
I
do
have
one
question
for
you:
I
know
that
we've
made
changes
critical
infrastructure
sections
of
the
code
over
the
last
few
years,
but
one
of
the
things
a
representative
standing
in
the
back
of
the
room
last
year
added
into
critical
infrastructure,
I
believe
agriculture
that
would
raise
the
threshold
there
or
anything
over
a
thousand
dollars
of
damage
of
crop
damage
would
be
punishable
as
a
C
felony.
Is
that
correct,
Mr.
P
Chairman
that
we
we
actually
printed
this
off
just
to
be
clear
as
used
in
this
section.
Critical
infrastructure
includes,
but
it's
not
limited
to
the
various
things
I'm
about
to
say,
and
that
is
telephone,
Telegraph,
Television,
Internet,
other
telecommunications,
Services,
electric
heat,
natural
gas
or
other
power,
energy
sources,
the
distribution
of
crew
to
refined,
liquid
petroleum
products
or
natural
gas.
The
pipelines
pumping
station
terminals,
equipment
necessary
for
operation
of
this
facility,
water,
Wastewater,
sewer,
Services,
railroads
and
other
transportation
services.
A
So,
as
drafted
your
bill
would
apply
also
to
to
Farms
agriculture
reason.
I
asked
someone
spray
painted
a
tractor
which
is
completely
inappropriate.
It
would
be
well
over
a
thousand
dollars
to
have
that
repainted
and
I.
Don't
know
if
that
catches.
The
spirit
of
what
you're
seeking
to
do
I
know
conversations.
We've
had
and
I
apologize,
I
didn't
catch
this
until
just
now,
but
I
know
that
we
had
talked
about
Transformers
and
you
know
electrical
grids
and
things
like
that
for
things
that
we
had
have
been
considering.
You
know
this.
P
With
the
intent
was
not
to
was
was
not
Farm,
it
was
what
we
consider
critical
infrastructure
there
in
section
b
or
subsection
one
there
is
to
find
there
I
mean
I
I
do
see
now,
as
I
look
a
little
further
that
apparently
it
was
amended
to
put
Farm
in
there
I
mean
we
could.
We
could
further
amend
this
bill
if
we
needed
to
to
to
clarify
that
and
I'm
happy
to
roll
it
a
week
and
address
that
with
the
committee
chairman
nosley.
L
I
appreciate
that
very
much
just
so
we
don't
mix
up
the
wrong
things
with
the
intent
of
what
you
got
by
the
way.
It
would
be
a
class
B
felony
if
you
cut
the
cable
to
the
leaders,
television
and
he
couldn't
watch
gun
smoke.
So
I'll
just
tell
you
that.
K
Towns,
I
think
we're
on
the
right
track.
I
think
we
might
clean
it
up
a
little
bit,
so
we
get
exactly
at
what
you
want
to
get
at
and
what
we
need
to
get
at,
but
I
know
we
don't
want
to.
You
know:
kids
getting
up,
painting
and
costing
two
thousand
dollars
to
redo
it.
That's
not
our
Target
at
all.
I
would
imagine
that's
not
what
we're
we're,
not
after
that,
so
I.
If
you
do
I
need
to
make
a
motion.
If
you
give
it
one
week.
A
P
You
Mr
chairman,
this
deals
with
the
theft
of
catalytic
converters,
which
is,
we
all
know,
has
become
something
of
an
epidemic
not
only
in
this
state
but
across
the
country.
I
know,
representative
Gillespie
has
worked
on
this
in
the
past
and
we
have
created
over
the
last
few
years,
legislation
that
would
ultimately
become
model
legislation
for
the
registration
of
scrap
metal
dealers
and
and
how
they
operate
in
our
state.
This
last
year,
I
put
together
a
task
force
and
we
invited
the
TBI
the
department
of
safety,
Commerce
and
Insurance.
P
We
met
with
the
sheriff's
Association
Police
Association
and
the
scrap
metal
dealers.
We
sat
down
and
we
discussed
this
and
we
at
the
end
of
the
day,
no
matter
how
many
bait
cars
or
no
matter
how,
how
well
you
coordinate
and
all
the
training
that
you
provide.
Ultimately,
if
it's
just
a
misdemeanor
there's
only
so
far,
you
can
go
so
it
seemed
to
be
the
consensus
among
the
group
that
the
theft
of
a
catalytic
converter
needed
to
be
raised
from
a
Class,
A
I'm.
P
F
Sorry,
thank
you
Mr
chairman.
How
much
does
a
catalytic
converter
cost.
P
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
so
the
if
a
catalog
converter
is
installing
off
your
car.
It
could
be
size.
Fifteen
hundred
two
thousand
dollars
to
replace,
although
the
street
value
to
the
to
the
criminal
might
be
two
hundred
dollars,
and
so
it's
it's
the
precious
minerals
that
are
inside
of
them,
and
it
is
important
that
we
recycle
catalytic
converters.
A
lot
of
the
precious
minerals
that
are
extracted
from
them
are
not
mined
or
it's
very
difficult
to
mine
them.
P
P
A
tremendous
amount
of
work
has
gone
into
this
over
the
last
few
years
and
I've
got
a
I've,
got
a
shout
out
to
representative
Gillespie
for
carrying
that
legislation,
but
we're
in
a
good
shape
and
as
far
as
the
scrap
dealers
and
how
they're
regulated
and
their
requirement
to
register
with
the
local
law
enforcement
if
they
do
set
up
an
operation.
But
at
the
end
of
the
day,
we've
got
to
hammer
down
on
these
criminals,
and
this
is
a
lot
higher
than
just
Petty
crime.
P
This
actually
there's
a
lot
of
criminal
Interstate
criminal
families
that
are
involved
in
this,
and
so
the
law
enforcement
said
that
that
raising
it
to
this
would
put
enough
pressure
on
the
petty
criminal
that
they
may
turn
States
evidence
on
a
larger
crime
operation.
That's
going
on
nationally
and
so
I
think
this
may
may
help
curtail
the
death
of
these
catalog
converters
in
this
state.
F
I
guess
I
guess
my
concern
is:
is
there
any
data
or
research
to
show
that
this
has
worked
somewhere
when
tried
I'm
I
really
am
concerned
about
I,
don't
know
about
all
these
folks
are
going
to
know
about
this
bill
and
it's
going
to
be
preventative
and
measure.
So
is
there
something
that
shows
this
has
been
done
and
it's
worked
and
also
with
the
legislation
just
put
in
place
for
the
metal
dealers
and
the
tighter
restrictions
there.
Have
we
given
that
time
to
work
before
we
take
this
measure.
P
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
well,
Tennessee
kind
of
leads
with
a
catalytic
converter
legislation
and
so
I.
Imagine
a
lot
of
people
are
going
to
be
looking
to
to
do
what
we
do
here
today
and
so
I
think
we're
we've
led
the
charge
on
the
legislation
that
we
passed
a
couple
of
years
ago
and
I
think
we're
leading
on
this
issue
as
well.
So
no
there's
not
a
state
that
we're
looking
to
on
this
being
criminalized
further.
P
Mr
chairman,
no,
no,
this
is
we're
leading
on
the
CSU
representative.
K
Thank
you
speaking
to
what
we
did
a
couple
years
ago.
I
was
a
part
of
that
I
participated
in
it
to
raise
it
from
where
it
was
to
make
it
11,
29,
okay,
the
challenges
I
have
is
this
is
that
we
have,
while
theft
of
anything
is
wrong.
If
you
still
a
bubble
gum
out
of
the
store.
All
is
wrong.
It
is
indeed
wrong.
K
Catalytic
converters
with
the
metals
we
know,
they're
recirculating
them,
but
I
got
a
concern
of
it
being
considered
a
felony
when
we
don't
have
enough
room
for
some
of
these
guys
that
are
raping
Robert
and
murder,
murdering
folks,
it's
a
problem
because
this
is
11.
29
should
be
enough
to
actually
get
a
guy's
attention.
K
Once
you
get
a
felony,
these
young
people,
it
could
be,
17
could
be
18,
I,
don't
know,
I've
not
looked
at
the
data,
but
once
they
get
a
felony,
if
they
come
out,
we're
not
going
to
hire
them
could
be
another
problem.
They're
gonna
have
to
either
graduate
their
theft
or
do
something
because
we
won't
accept
them
back,
as
we
should
hope
skill
into
the
community.
It's
not
solving
the
problem
as
a
state.
There
are
many
hard
criminals
out
there
that
are
doing
things
carjacking
with
a
gun,
murdering
molesting
of
a
child
right.
K
We
need
space
in
the
cell
block
for
those
people
in
particular,
I'd
love
to
see
some
data
too,
while
I
supported
it.
The
last
time,
I
have
a
big
concern
about
making
this
a
felony.
Now
tell
me
this
at
this
point,
you
may
have
the
the
data
in
your
mind,
if
not
Mr
representative,
we
would
love
to
get
it.
What
is
the
number?
What
is
the
increase
from
the
time?
We
did
the
bill
to
make
it
11
29.?
P
Mr,
chairman
I,
don't
remember
when
it
was
changed
to
misdemeanor
Class
A
I'm,
not
I'd,
have
to
look
and
research
that,
but
I
will
tell
you
that
you
make
a
great
Point,
except
it's
not
getting
their
attention.
Law
enforcement
is
telling
me
that
they
are
they're.
P
Rating
houses
for
for
other
issues
could
be
drugs,
could
be
prostitution
and
they're
going
in
there
and
they're
finding
rooms
that
catalytic
converters
are
stacked
from
floor
to
ceiling,
and
these
things
are
being
peddled
because
of
their
Precious
Minerals,
a
lot
of
the
way
that
that
drugs
and
other
things
are
peddled,
and
so
this
is
not
petty
crime
going
on
here
representative.
P
This
is
this
is
organized
crime,
and
so
what
this
seeks
to
do
is
to
put
some
pressure
on
the
folks
that
are
that
are
caught
in
the
process
of
sealing
them
or
people
that
are
that
are
caught
with
these
and
paraphernalia
in
their
possession,
and
what
our
hope
is
that
it
will
put
pressure
on
the
prosecution
of
the
higher
level
crime.
K
K
Murder
happens
every
day
in
this
country
and
in
this
and
in
this
state,
and
we
can
increase
the
penalty,
but
it
still
occurs,
and
this
is
the
reason
I'm
saying
we
need
space
for
those
guys
and
and
people
that
choose
to
go
to
the
far
end
of
the
spectrum.
Now
all
of
it's
wrong,
I'm
saying
you
know
stilling
and
if
it's
a
ring
of
your
car
or
whatever
that's
still
wrong,
it's
definitely
wrong,
but
I.
Don't
I,
don't
see
how
this
is
going
to
stop
it.
K
What
about
penalizing
the
folk
that
are
buying
the
metals
more
so
too,
somebody
has
like
we
did
with
the
pawn
shops
many
years
ago.
They
were
receiving
and
fencing
all
the
stolen
stuff.
It
was
going
straight
to
the
pawn
shop,
so
we
changed
the
laws
with
the
pawn
shops
are.
Are
we
looking
at
it
at
that
angle
as
well
and
I'm
familiar
with
people
who've
gotten
this
stuff
stolen?
My
neighbors,
a
catalytic
converter,
was
stolen,
came
out
one
morning,
go
to
work,
car
won't
start
and
it's
it's
a
problem.
It
is
a
problem.
E
A
A
A
You
are
recognized,
there's
an
amendment
with
your
bill
code
3309.
Is
that
correct.
Q
You
thank
you
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you
committee.
This
is
an
Administration
bill
from
the
Department
of
mental
health
and
substance
abuse,
Services
Under,
the
direction
of
the
wonderful
commissioner
Marie
Lee
and
her
team
Marie
Williams
and
her
team.
This
legislation
was
proposed
by
the
Department's
Statewide
planning
and
policy
Council
in
2021,
there
was
30
over
3
800
drug
overdose
deaths
in
Tennessee.
According
to
the
Tennessee
Department
of
Health,
drug
overdose
can
be
reversed
if
timely
medical
assistance
is
administered
to
the
person
experienced
in
the
overdose
in
2015.
Q
The
immunity
applies
to
the
arrest,
charge
and
prosecution
of
simple
possession
or
casual
exchange
or
unlawful
drug
paraphernalia
uses
and
activities
under
the
current
Tennessee
Good
Samaritan
Protection
Law.
This
immunity
applies
to
a
person
experiencing
a
drug
overdose.
Only
on
that
person's
first
drug
overdose.
This
bill,
as
amended,
would
keep
the
immunity
of
a
person
experiencing
a
drug
overdose
for
their
first
such
drug
overdose,
but
would
give
the
responding
law
enforcement
officer
or
the
district
attorney
general's
office
discretion
whether
the
immunity
should
be
extended
to
that
person
for
any
other
drug
overdoses
in
the
future.
Q
When
an
individual
survives
a
drug
overdose,
they
have
an
opportunity
to
receive
or
seek
treatment
or
other
recovery
support
activities
and
they
recover
from
the
disease
of
addiction
repair
relationships
and
make
a
positive
impact
on
their
Community.
This
bill
has
no
physical
impact,
Mr
chairman,
but
then
I
renew
my
motion.
A
Thank
you.
So
your
amendment
makes
the
bill.
Yes,
okay,
members.
Any
questions
on
the
amendment
question
has
been
called
in
objection,
saying
no
we're
voting
to
adopt
Amendment
3309
on
two
House
Bill
75,
those
in
favor,
say
aye,
those
opposed
the
eyes
Prevail
you
adopt
we're
on
a
house
bill
75
as
amended.
Any
questions
comments
for
the
sponsor
questions
been
called
without
objection
for
voting
on
sending
House
Bill
75
on
the
full
criminal.
All
those
in
favor
say:
aye
those
opposed
eyes
Prevail.
R
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
in
the
committee
actually
brought
this
bill
last
year,
but
we
like
chairman
Kingsley,
mentioned
earlier,
did
not
get
it
funded,
so
we're
going
to
give
another
shot
at
it
this
year.
This
bill
adds
that
a
course
of
conduct
for
the
purpose
of
stalking
includes
one
instance
of
placing
an
electronic
tracking
device
on
a
person
or
any
person's
property
unless
the
electronic
tracking
device
is
placed
by
or
the
direction
of
a
law
enforcement
officer.
R
This
the
Genesis
of
this
bill
there
was
a
young
lady
who
worked
at
Chick-fil-A
and
come
to
me
one
day,
and
she
said
you
never
would
believe
what
happened
to
me
this
morning
got
my
car
and,
on
my
way,
to
work.
My
phone
goes
off
and
there
was
trying
to
connect
to
something
that
was
on
our
car.
R
I
want
to
come
to
find
out,
someone
had
put
a
device
on
her
car
and
it
was
tracking
her
and,
as
I've
done,
a
little
more
digging
that
some
seems
to
be
a
common
problem
across
the
country
and
we
did
not
have
any
way
to
actually
address
that
in
our
code.
So
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
just
add
this
course
of
conduct.
A
I
Thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
to
the
sponsor
for
the
bill.
Again
is
the
the
fiscal
note
of
13
800
for
fiscal
year
2324
the
same
as
last
year
or
within
that
ballpark.
Thank.
R
You
Mr
chairman,
and
it's
a
little
bit
less
this
time.
I
You
know
it's
I
support
your
bill.
I
just
don't
understand
how
we
can't
appreciate
the
investment
to
save
lives,
to
save
a
lot
of
times,
you're
going
to
find
that
these
instances
are
are
domestic
violence
and
sexual
assault
driven
and
I.
Don't
understand
how
we
can't
fund
this
bill,
I'm
voting
for
you,
Bill
I'm,
supporting
you
all
the
way.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
R
Mr,
chairman
I,
thank
you,
representative
grills,
you
recognized
it
just
it
just
creates
a
course
of
conduct
which
puts
it
in
his
stalking
code
and
then
it
would
be
charged
as
stalking
got
it.
Thank
you,
sir.
A
A
S
Thank
you,
chairman
Doggett.
This
bill
was
brought
to
me
by
the
Tennessee
Municipal
judges
conference.
Currently
we
have
St
in-state
statutes,
Provisions.
That
would
allow
individuals
to
expunge
from
their
records
certain
misdemeanors
misdemeanors
and
certain
felonies,
but
the
Tennessee
Municipal
judges
conference
does
not
believe
that
Tennessee
state
law
currently
allows
municipal
courts
to
expunge
from
Municipal
records
certain
local
violations.
This
bill
would
allow
municipal
courts
to
expunge
from
their
records
certain
violations
and
the
kinds
of
local
violations
that
this
bill
would
pertain
to
would
be
things
like
parking
tickets.
A
A
J
S
It's
30
days
after
the
individual
has
satisfied
the
requirements
of
the
court
in
terms
of
penalties
fees.
Things
like
that
the
period
is
listed
as
30
days,
instead
of
a
longer
period
at
the
recommendation
of
the
Tennessee
Municipal
judges
conference,
because
these
are
things
like
parking
tickets
or
ordinance
violations
rather
than
more
serious
offenses,
and
of
course,
none
of
these
would
include
any
type
of
criminal
offense.
J
Seems
an
unusual
to
me:
I
mean
30
days
after
a
municipal
judge
says
you
know
this
person
has
done
something
wrong,
just
wipe
it
all
off
the
record.
I
mean,
what's
the
point
of
even
finding
them
liable
for
it
to
begin
with,
I
mean
just
get
the
fees
for
it
or
something
I
mean
that
doesn't
seem
like
a
good
reason.
If
it's
important
enough
to
find
them
liable
for
it.
J
S
S
There'd
be
a
little
bit
of
a
barrier
to
getting
this
done,
but
it's
not
a
waiting
period
of
five
years
or
something
like
that
because
again
this
this
may
just
be
a
parking
ticket
and
the
implications
of
having
a
parking
ticket
parking
ticket
on
your
record
may
be
so
minimal
that
a
lot
of
people
don't
even
bother
to
go
through
the
process.
But
this
bill
would
allow
municipal
courts
the
authority
to
provide
these
types
of
expungements
if
they
wanted
to
if
they
thought
there
was
Merit
in
it.
A
Any
follow-up
later
chairman.
L
Hulsey,
thank
you
chairman
I
I
like
to
build,
because
current
there
is
no
way
for
anybody
to
remove
those
and
you
can't
remove
driving
violations
because
they
go
on
your
driving
record.
But
I
understand
from
my
former
City
attorney
that
some
of
the
open
alcohol
issues,
possession
open
beer,
those
kind
of
things,
particularly
with
somebody
he
told
me
that
was
going
to
go
into
a
sensitive
position
in
the
military
they
wanted
to
that.
They
wanted
that
expunge
from
the
record.
This
provides
an
Avenue
for
them
to
do
that.
I
appreciate
the
bill.
K
Look
look
I
like
the
I
like
the
bill,
but
I
can
create
my
leader
down
there.
30
days
is
not
long
enough.
What
if
you
got
a
lady,
that's
pregnant
and
she
may
want
to
actually
deliver
a
baby
and
get
caught
right
in
that
time
frame
and
she
goes
to
court.
That's
too
late.
30
days
is
just
not
a
long
time
and
you
specifically
indicated
the
gyrations
that
one
has
to
go
through
in
order
to
accomplish
it's
not
a
long
time.
K
It
goes
by
like
that,
but
the
bill
I
think
on
his
face
and
how
it's
presented
is
something
that
perhaps
we
need
to
do,
but
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
a
little
longer
than
30
days.
Man,
maybe.
S
I
should
thank
you.
Maybe
I
should
add
that
the
bill
does
not
mandate.
These
violations
be
expunged
after
30
days.
It
just
allows
the
Municipal
Court
the
authority
to
to
to
expunge
beginning
at
the
30-day
Mark
the
court
may
decide.
30
days
is
not
long
enough
and
in
fact,
turn
down
those
kind
of
those
kinds
of
petitions.
This
just
begins
allowing
a
municipal
court,
the
authority
to
even
consider
it
at
that
point,
but
it
may
be
that
judges
agree
with
you
all
and
they
feel
like
30
days
is
insufficient.
S
Maybe
it
needs
to
stay
on
the
record
for
a
year.
It's
just
that
the
the
consideration
begins
at
at
30
days,
but
it's
not
a
mandate.
Well,.
K
What
have
you
if
the
judge
has
the
flexibility
and
they
don't
and
they're
not
precluded
from
ruling
in
a
citizen's
favor
after
30
days,
is
which
what
I'm
hearing
I'm
thinking
that
after
30
days,
they
can't
really
hear
it
or
make
a
ruling
that
will
expunge
the
record
that
you
may
have
that's
the
way.
I
understood
it
now,
if
that's
not
clear
and
clearly
accurate,
and
they
have
the
flexibility
to
do
it
now.
Legal
may
have
to
look
at
it
and
tell
me,
but
I'm
reading
it
a
little
differently.
T
Michelle
Fogerty
Legal
Services
the
bill
says
that
the
court
May
Grant
the
petition
if
at
least
30
days
have
elapsed
since
the
completion
of
the
penalty.
T
A
N
S
Yes,
and
just
to
clarify
the
petitioner
must
wait
30
days
after
the
30-day
period
they
may
petition,
the
court
can
turn
them
down
so
that
the
30-day
waiting
period
is
not
something
that
that
entitles
the
offender
to
expungement.
That's
just
the
time
period
that
must
elapse
before
the
court
can
can
even
consider
it
and
the
court.
Then,
as
you
suggesting
your
question,
can
turn
down
the
petition,
the
petitioner
can
come
back
at
a
later
time,
though.
Thank
you.
S
A
S
J
A
U
I,
don't
know
about
that
end,
I'm
glad
bomb
got
you
good
and
warmed
up
on
this
subject,
but
this
bill
deals
with
expungements
and
right
now,
as
you
know,
their
expungement
timelines
of
one
year
five
year
and
10
years
for
various
offense
criminal
offenses
for
expungement.
U
If
you
will
Mr
chairman
indulge
me
I'll,
take
this
bill
off
notice
with
hopes
of
bringing
it
back
with
an
amendment
perhaps
next
year,
because
I
really
do
want
to
shine
a
light
on
this
subject,
because
The
Five-Year
and
ten
year
waiting
periods
and
speaking
with
individuals
who
are
directly
impacted
by
this,
as
well
as
criminal,
defense,
attorneys
and
others.
Those
timelines
are
very
long.
U
That
seems
like
an
exorbitant
amount
of
time
to
have
to
wait
before
you
can
even
begin
to
petition,
not
to
mention
the
fact
that
that
five-year
and
ten
year
timeline
is
restrictive.
So,
even
if
a
court
or
somebody
wanted
to
do
something
before,
then
they
are
expressly
prohibited.
The
way
the
the
law
is
drafted,
we're
having
a
real
issue
with
people
being
able
to
get
jobs
and
employment,
and
if
we
want
individuals
who
have
proven
themselves
financer,
you
know
to
be
good
members
of
our
society.
U
They've
been
rehabbed,
they
finished
their
sentences
having
to
wait
five
and
ten
years
is
prohibitive
for
them.
That
is
a
certain
hurdle
for
them
to
gain
employment
and,
as
we
all
know,
employers
still
look
at
that
criminal
record
and
and
take
that
into
consideration.
But
if
someone
has
served
their
time,
they've
done
their
job
they've
become
active
members
of
their
Community.
We
should
not
be
prohibiting
them
from
contributing
to
our
society
and
I'm
afraid.
U
The
timelines
currently
in
law
actually
do
that
they
they
prohibit
them
from
being
able
to
get
out
and
make
some
money
and
support
their
family
and
do
what
we
expect
of
good
citizens
to
do
to
contribute
to
the
community.
So
what
I
would
like
to
happen
is
for
us
to
really
have
a
thoughtful
conversation
about
this.
U
You
know
across
the
aisle
and
whoever
would
like
to
be
involved
and
really
think
about
some
timelines
that
actually
work
not
only
for
the
court
system
and
and-
and
you
know,
with
issues
with
regards
to
post-trial
issues
and
things
like
that
and
come
up
with
a
more
realistic
timeline,
because
five
and
ten
years
seems
like
an
awful
long
time
to
try
to
arbitrarily
say
well,
they
proved
themselves
after
five
years,
they're,
a
good
citizen
or
ten
years,
they've
proven
themselves.
U
Someone
could
probably
prove
that
in
a
shorter
amount
of
time,
so
I'd
love
for
us
to
have
a
conversation
and
and
really
think
about
shortening
those
timelines
down
to
something
that's
more
realistic
and
reasonable
to
better
allow
individuals
to
rein
or
our
communities
in
society
and
with
that
I'll
answer.
Any
questions
on
this
issue
or
or
I'll
just
go
ahead
and
take
it
off
notice.
It's
up
to
the
pleasure
of
the
chair.
I
Mr
chairman,
not
so
much
a
question
as
a
comment.
I
think
that
at
times
we
can
get
to
Binary
cookie
cutter
on
how
we
set
penalties
and
how
we
design
the
ability
for
our
individuals
who
have
paid
their
debt
to
society,
to
be
able
to
re-enter
society
and
to
move
on
that.
I
Perhaps
some
are
already
far
sooner
than
others,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
things
that
can
happen
in
between
the
time
that
you're
ready
and
that
really
I
thought
I
guess
is
an
arbitrary
number
I
remember
looking
at
the
the
statistics
of
data
on
what
that
10-year
mark
means.
As
far
as
those
who
are
not
going
to
reoffend
and
it
it
wasn't
convincing
for
me
at
the
time
so
I
welcome
a
graduated
time
frame,
looking
forward
to
talking
about
your
bill
when
you
bring
it
back.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
U
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
and
thank
you,
representative,
Hardaway
yeah
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
little
bit
more
leeway
and
discretion
once
these
petitions
are
filed.
I
understand
there
needs
to
be
a
certain
amount
of
time
perhaps,
but
there
does
need
to
be
some
discretion
on
the
course
part
and
and
take
every
specific
individual's
circumstances
and
into
account
and
see
if
we
can't,
you
know,
really
accomplish
what
was
intended
with
these
expunctions
on
the
front
end.
So
thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
K
Sir,
thank
you
here
again,
I
think
the
bill
has
Merit
and
I'd
love
to
see
it
come
back
as
well,
especially
when
you're
going
to
have
some
time
in
some
cases
where
you
have
people
that
are
they're
kind
of
mature
in
age,
and
they
still
may
want
to
try
to
get
back
into
society
where
they
should
I'm
going
to
try
to
get
back
so
I
look
forward
to
seeing
and
hopefully
get
a
chance
to
work
as
a
collaborative
and
find
out
what
would
be
reasonable.
Mr
chairman,
thank
you.
U
You
think
Mr,
chairman
yeah
and
exactly
I
mean
if
you
got
an
18
year
old,
who
you
know,
makes
a
dumb
mistake
and
steals
a
pair
of
jeans
or
something
or
that
that
they
need.
You
know
then
requiring
them
to
have
that
land
on
them
for
five
years
or,
however
long
it's
just
it
doesn't
make
sense.
I
I
think
we
really
need
some
some
leeway
here
and
some
discretion.
So
thank
you,
representative,
council.
A
V
Thank
you
chairman
and
committee
I
brought
to
you
house
bill
22..
This
bill
requires
law
enforcement
to
initiate
audio
visual
record
and
win
interrogating
minor
I
would
like
to
thank
the
TBI,
the
sheriff's
Association
and
the
association
with
chief
police
for
their
input
on
this
bill
and
I
stand
by
for
you
all.
J
Representative,
here's
my
question
so
in
looking
at
your
bill.
If
it
requires
an
audio
or
video,
what
happens
if
the
audio
video
is
not
recorded,
so
someone
someone
under
18
is
speaking
with
an
officer.
They
admit
to
a
murder,
they
give
a
full
confession,
feel
horrible
about
it
and
they
tell
them
about
it,
but
it
wasn't
audio
or
video
recorded
what
happens
under
your
bill.
V
So
the
so
this
bill
does
leave,
so
this
bill
will
not
apply
if
there
is
a
an
extreme
circumstance.
For
example,
if
law
enforcement
officer
has
to
have
to
do
after
interview
a
juvenile
at
the
scene
of
the
crime
or
indication
you
just
spoke
about.
J
Well,
I
understand
that
your
bill
says
under
extras
and
circumstances.
That's
fine
or
if
there's
some
kind
of
technical
glitch
I'm
just
talking
about
an
SRO
I
was
talking
to
a
kid
in
a
school
and
they
bust
out
and
say
look
I
know:
y'all
been
looking
for
a
guy
who
did
this
I
did
it
and
they
give
a
confession.
I,
maybe
I
should
have
made
that
a
rhetorical
question:
I'll
tell
you
what
happens
in
all
actuality
that
confession
is
going
to
be
tossed
out.
If
we
pass
this
bill
and
I.
Don't
think
that's
your
intention.
J
I
I
just
can't
support
that.
That's
my
issue
with
this.
Again,
policies
and
procedures
saying
look
that
they
should
do
this
and
everything
else
all
that's
fine,
but
when
you
go
to
put
it
in
the
greed
books
over
there,
if
that
law
is
not
followed,
my
concern
is
some
victim
of
a
heinous
crime
out
there
is
going
to
go
free
when
there's
an
absolute
confession
to
the
crime,
so
I
appreciate
the
spirit
in
which
the
law
is
brought,
but
it's
just
not
something
that
I
could
support.
Just
for
that
reason,
thank
you.
V
Yes,
so
this
build
is
merely
an
extra
layer
of
protection
for
both
the
juvenile
in
question,
as
well
as
the
officer
with
this
bill.
If
we,
if
we
care
one
lawsuit,
this
bill
has
done
its
job.
So
again,
this
bill
ensures
that,
if
there's
a
if
a
juvenile
is
being
interrogated
that
ensures
that
the
officer
is
doing
the
things
they
should
be
doing,
and
it
also
ensures
that
the
juvenile
is
doing
what
what
they
should
be
doing
as
well.
K
Chairman,
thank
you
Lita
Lambert.
This,
of
course,
is
to
you
with
your
excuse
me.
You
know
long-standing
technical
knowledge,
I,
wonder
if
there's
anything
that
you
see
that
we
could
actually
include
by
modifying
this
bill,
to
make
this
bill
a
workable
Bill,
to
figure
out
how
to
get
at
the
concern
that
we
see.
J
Later,
yes,
and
thank
you,
my
friend,
we've
been
friends
a
long
time,
I
mean
if
you
require
that
there
will
be
a
policy
and
procedure
on
recording
this
information
and,
and
we
say
that
every
department
has
to
have
that
type
of
policy.
That's
fine
I
mean
you
know
you
can
violate
a
policy
and
sometimes
there's
good
reason.
You
know
I
mean
again
someone
just
walks
up
to
you
and
starts
talking
about
something,
and
you
just
you
know,
don't
have
time
to
turn
the
recording
on
it
can
happen
and
does
happen
in
the
real
world.
J
But
if
you
put
it
in
the
law-
and
it's
not
followed,
that
I
mean
that's.
What's
going
to
happen,
is
the
video
auditor
is
going
to
be
cost
out
of
court
and
should,
by
the
way,
this
legislature
when
we
create
a
law
that
says
you
have
to
do
this?
If
you
don't
do
it,
then
there
should
be
repercussions
to
that
and
unfortunately,
within
the
within
the
you
know,
criminal
procedural
realm.
J
That's
normally
what
the
remedy
is
so
some
sort
of
policy
procedure
I
mean
is,
is
a
great
idea,
but
saying
statutorily
they
have
to
will
create
I,
think
more
problems
than
it
than
it
solves.
K
Mr
chairman,
so
technically
we
could
solve
it
or
get
at
it
very
closely
by
ensuring
that
we
Implement
a
policy.
That's
addressed
it
versus
statute
is
what
we're
saying
and
and
with
that
policy.
Obviously
people
sometimes
going
to
miss
the
positive
but
it'll
it'll
increase
that
thing
I'm,
pretty
sure
high
up
in
the
90
95
97
98
percentile,
because
of
the
policy,
it
still
addresses
the
same
thing.
Okay,
thank
you
for
that.
F
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
guess
a
couple
of
questions.
One
has
this
bill
passed
in
the
Senate.
F
Okay
and
my
second
question
in
reference
to
what
my
colleague
was
talking
about
that
situation,
where
there
might
be
an
admission
I
mean
I,
can
appreciate
having
it
on
recording
because
you
would
know
if
there
was
coercion
or
anything
like
that,
especially
when
we're
talking
about
young
people.
F
That
is
also
a
concern,
and
so,
like
my
other
colleague,
I,
feel
like.
We
should
be
able
to
find
some
area
where,
where
these
two
things
come
together,
because
certainly
you
want
to
make
sure
that
there
was
no
coercion
in
a
in
a
confession,
and
this
audio
or
videotape
would
would
do
just
that.
V
Yes,
thank
you
for
that.
All
right
and
again
we
are,
we
are
talking
about
children
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
doing
anything
under
the
table
with
children.
E
Thank
you
Mr,
chairman
representative,
thank
you
for
bringing
us
I
was
just
I
may
have
missed
us,
so
I
apologize.
Would
this
only
apply
to
an
interrogation
of
a
minor
in
a
like
police
station,
or
are
we
talking
about
something
going
on
out
on
the
streets
and
then
I've
got
two
follow-up
questions
to
that.
V
Okay
yeah,
so
this
would
be
a
primarily
talks
about
when
there's
an
interrogation.
However,
there
are.
There
are
situations
where
this
will
not
come
into
play.
Just
For
example.
You
know
for
juvenile
has
a
has
unruly
conduct
at
a
school.
Well,
the
the
school
administration
or
school
resource
officer
would
call
local
law
enforcement
at
that
time.
E
Okay,
oh
and
I'm,
assuming
there's
some
other
factors
that
can
play
in
there,
I
guess
what
I'm
getting
at
is
at
least
I
I,
don't
know
how
it
is
in
other
counties
throughout
the
state
or
municipalities
or
whatnot
towns.
I
know
like
where
we
are
in
Shelby
County.
E
Most
officers
carry
on
the
street
body
cameras
but
in
some
certain
circumstances
their
supervisors
do
not.
So
if
a
supervisor
were
to
encounter
a
minor
out
on
the
street,
what
if
this
bill
passes
and
as
becomes
law,
what
what
takes
place?
What?
How
does
that?
How
has
that
impacted
because
I
see
there's
not
a
physical
note,
I'm
just
a
little
concerned
here
that
are
we
gonna
Force
these
departments
to
buy
cameras
for
every
single
officer
from
the
chief
of
police
down
or
what
what's
what's
happening?
There.
V
E
A
Representative
I
do
have
one
brief
question
for
you:
I
will
say
that
we
are
running
out
of
time,
but
under
the
way
this
has
been
written.
This
is
when
a
child
has
been
taken
into
custody
of
the
suspicion
of
a
child
committed
delinquent
act
or
unruly
conduct.
Well,
that
also
include
a
juvenile
who
was
driving
12
miles
over
the
speed
limit.
They
were
stopped
by
an
officer.
A
I
A
Tell
you
what
we're
going
to
do
if
it's
all
right
with
you,
we're
going
to
this
bill
is
going
to
be
rolled
one
week,
we're
going
to
roll
all
the
bills
that
we
have
not
taken
up.
That's
fine!
So
this
this
will
not
count
against
you
as
a
as
a
role,
but
before
we
do
that.