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From YouTube: Joint House Education Committee - September 23rd, 2021
Description
House Education Administration Committee and House Education Instruction Committtee
C
C
A
A
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Oh
bow,
our
heavenly
father,
we
come
before
you
today,
very
humbled,
very
honored
to
be
here
and
especially
lord,
to
talk
about
our
children
in
the
state
of
tennessee
each
one
of
us
on
this
committee,
and
each
one
in
this
room
I
know,
is
very
passionate
about
our
children
here
in
tennessee
father.
I
just
ask
that
you
give
us
all
the
wisdom
and
lord
the
passion
and
the
desire
to
always
want
to
put
our
children
first
above
all
of
our
needs
or
our
wants.
D
I
just
ask
that
you
give
us
all
the
strength,
lord,
that
you
can
to
make
sure
that
we
stay
passionate
and
caring
and
that
tennessee
becomes
my
desire
and
passion
is
to
see
tennessee
become
the
number
one
state
father
that
everybody
knows
we
care
about
our
children
and
so
father.
We
we
are
up
against
so
many
obstacles.
D
Lord,
that
we
never
ever
dreamed
would
ever
happen
from
the
time
that
I
went
through
school,
so
father,
I
just
pray
that
you'll
be
with
all
the
families
in
the
state
of
tennessee
those
who
are
working
hard
and
trying
to
raise
their
children
and
father.
I
just
ask
that
you
lead
and
guide
us
and
direct
us
in
all.
We
do
for
it's
in
your
most
blessed
and
precious
name,
amen.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you,
representative
members.
As
we
get
started
I'll
recognize
if
anyone
has
any
announcements
or
recognitions
what
I
would
like
to
start
out
with,
I
want
to
continue.
I
meant
to
mention
this
yesterday,
but
continue
to
remember
those
in
waverly
and
humphreys
county,
where
they
lost
two
schools
and
a
lot
of
their
central
office
during
the
flood
a
couple
of
months
or
so
ago.
A
A
C
B
E
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Anyone
else
have
a
recognition
today,
make
sure
we're
not.
We
of
course,
have
guests
that
are
our
speakers
this
morning.
Let
me,
as
we
start
out,
let
me
start
out
on
kind
of
a
lighter
note,
like
y'all
like
to
do
a
lot
of
reading,
especially
about
history
and
it.
Just
I
think
it's
worthy
sharing
in
here
is
how,
as
we
go
through
life,
how
we
treat
each
other
it
always
you
know
we
can
do
what
we
need
to
do,
but
we
are
not
the
ones
connecting
the
dots.
A
How
our
creator
uses
us
and
I
was
reading
the
story.
The
other
day
is
back
in
the
late
1800s
and
there
was
a
member
of
parliament
from
england.
He
had
a
speaking
engagement
in
suite
in
scotland,
so
he
took
the
train
from
london
to
scotland,
but
then
he
still
had
to
take
a
carriage
ride
to
this
place.
He
was
speaking
but
because
there's
a
distance
away
and
it
was
raining
so
the
carriage
got
stuck
in
the
mud.
A
A
A
A
Well,
dr
alexander
fleming
was
this
young
man
who
pulled
the
guy
out
of
parliament
out
of
the
mud
and
the
man
in
parliament
was
randolph.
Churchill
winston's
father
talk
about
connecting
dots,
how
we
treat
each
other.
We
never
know
in
a
lifetime
how
someone
else's
life
be
changed,
and
I
just
thought
that
was
really
a
moving
story.
When
I
read
that,
so,
let's
don't
forget
that.
A
F
F
Perfect,
okay,
so
today
I'm
going
to
really
just
go
through
a
very
high
level
presentation
around
tvos,
it's
kind
of
a
101,
and
I
appreciate
any
questions
that
you
may
have
about
the
system,
but
I'll
go
ahead
and
just
jump
right
into
it.
So
most
of
you
are
probably
familiar
that
tvos
actually
started
in
tennessee.
So
I
I
work
with
a
group
or
work
over
top
of
a
group
overseeing
a
group
named
evas.
F
He
was
actually
a
professor
at
university
of
tennessee
in
knoxville
doing
work
around
measuring
student
growth,
so
this
was
before
sas
actually
acquired
tvos
around
2000,
so
in
the
in
those
early
kind
of
in
that
early
research
setting
dr
sanders
really
found
that
he
could
provide
very
reliable
measures
of
student
growth.
He
found
that
we
didn't
have
to
just
focus
on
student
achievement
or
how
high
scoring
students
were,
but
rather
we
could
look
at
how
much
progress
they
were
making
from
one
year
to
the
next.
F
We
knew
that
there
were
a
lot
of
concerns
or
challenges
with
student
testing,
such
as
test
scores,
aren't
perfect.
There's
a
lot
of
student
mobility,
there's
a
lot
of
missing
test
scores,
especially
with
certain
types
of
students,
and
all
of
these
challenges
were
mitigated
and
overcome
with
some
of
the
methodologies
that
dr
sanders
started
back
then
in
the
mid
80s.
F
F
F
They
also
found
that,
unlike
achievement
measures,
student
background
characteristics
weren't
as
related
to
student
growth.
So
we
all
know
that
with
achievement
measures,
these
ideas
of
percent
proficiency,
you
know
if
we
look
at
socioeconomic
factors
or
demographic
characteristics,
those
tend
to
be
related
to
achievement
type
measures.
F
I
will
say
that
tennessee
was
the
first
state
to
produce
value-added
measures
or
growth
measures
statewide
back
in
1993.
It
started
at
the
district
level,
so
the
state
had
district
reports
sent
out
to
all
lease
or
districts
in
94
there
were
statewide
school-level
reports
in
96
there
were
statewide
teacher
level
reports
so
measuring
growth
down
to
the
individual
teacher
in
2000.
That's
when
sas
acquired
tvos,
it
became
known
as
a
more
generic
version
of
evos.
F
So,
to
make
some
of
those
points
about
achievement
and
poverty
levels,
so
they
found
early
on,
as
you
can
see
with
this
slide
that
there's
there
tends
to
be
a
relationship
between
achievement
and
the
percentage
of
students
that
are
economically
disadvantaged.
Every
one
of
these
individual
dots
represents
a
school
in
the
state
of
tennessee.
F
So
what
you'll
notice,
as
you
go
from
the
left
to
the
right,
is
that
the
percentage
of
economically
disadvantaged
students
increases
and
you'll
notice
that
there's
a
downward
trend
in
that
achievement
level.
That's
on
the
vertical
axis,
so
from
the
left
to
the
right.
We
can
see
there's
a
slight
downward
trend.
F
Now
I'm
going
to
switch
to
growth
instead
and
what
you'll
notice
is
that
relationship
tends
to
flatten
out
so
we
don't
see
as
much
of
a
slope
downward
when
we
move
to
the
higher
poverty
schools
again.
Each
one
of
these
individual
dots
represents
a
school
in
the
state
of
tennessee,
and
this
is
growth
data
from
the
2019
school
year.
So
you'll
see
from
the
left
to
the
right.
F
This
expectation
of
growth
is
defined
as
that
zero
line
that
darker
line
right
in
the
mid.
Well,
the
darker
line
in
the
middle
of
the
graph
and
you'll
notice
that
there
are
schools
above
and
below
that
line
across
the
entire
spectrum
of
poverty,
so
measuring
growth.
You
can
really
see
schools
that
are
doing
well
with
their
students
kind
of
across
the
spectrum
of
poverty
or
across
the
spectrum
of
achievement.
F
So
this
is
a
graph
that
shows
the
relationship
between
growth
and
achievement
in
the
state
of
tennessee.
So
there
tends
to
not
really
be
a
relationship
here.
What
that
means
is
we
find
schools
that
are
very
low,
achieving
that
are
able
to
make
high
amounts
of
growth
with
their
students.
We
find
schools
that
are
very
high,
achieving
that
are
also
able
to
make
high
amounts
of
growth
of
their
students
and
also
the
opposite.
We
also
see
schools
that
are
high
and
low,
achieving
that
also
don't
make
as
much
growth
with
their
students.
F
So
what
is
tvos?
What
is
the
model?
What
is
it?
What
does
it
really
mean?
This
is
a
pretty
conceptual
way
to
think
about
it,
but
I
think
it's
pretty
straightforward,
so
tvas
the
tennessee
value-added
assessment
system,
I
might
say,
value-added
models,
I'm
really
talking
about
just
growth
models
or
measuring
growth,
but
to
really
put
a
definition
out
there.
Tvos
measures
the
change
in
achievement
of
a
group
of
students
from
one
year
to
the
next
to
an
expected
amount
of
change
based
on
the
student's
prior
achievement
history.
F
So
there's
a
couple
of
really
key
important
parts:
we're
talking
about
groups
of
students.
That
group
is
defined
as
the
group
of
students
with
a
particular
teacher
or
the
group
of
students
with
a
school
or
at
a
district,
and
then
at
those
group
levels
we
are
providing
measures
at
the
individual
subject
and
grade.
So
if
a
teacher
might
teach
fifth
grade,
math
and
fifth
grade
reading,
we
will
provide
different
growth
measures
at
fifth
grade,
math
and
fifth
grade
reading.
F
For
those
teachers
we
may
provide
also
an
overall
growth
measure
that
goes
across
different
subjects
and
grades.
But
that's
those
growth
measures
are
compared
to
an
expected
amount
of
change,
so
this
expectation
is
also
a
very
important
part
of
defining
what
tvas
is
expected.
Growth
is
based
on
the
average
amount
of
growth
seen
in
that
year,
with
a
group
of
students
or
with
the
statewide
group
of
students.
F
This
value,
as
I
showed
on
the
last
graph,
is
always
defined
as
a
value
of
zero.
It
just
represents
the
average
growth
seen
in
tennessee
in
that
given
year
for
that
subject
in
grade,
and,
of
course,
we
base
all
this
on
the
prior
achievement,
history
of
that
particular
student.
So
when
we
measure
growth,
the
student
is
compared
to
their
own
prior
testing
data.
F
Again,
I
was
showing
how
growth
is
not
related
to
things
like
socioeconomic
and
demographic
characteristics.
Typically,
and
the
reason
that's
the
case,
is
those
factors
have
influenced
the
prior
achievement
data
of
those
students,
so
by
taking
into
account
each
student's
own
prior
achievement
data
or
factoring
in
any
of
those
influences
to
the
extent
that
they
were
already
factored
into
their
prior
achievement
scores
so
by
we're
kind
of
comparing
them
to
themselves.
F
Let's
just
say
on
average,
they
were
at
the
50th
percentile,
so
the
50th
percentile
relative
to
all
the
other
students
in
the
state
of
tennessee,
and
so
if
we
followed
that
same
group
of
students
to
the
next
school
year
in
grade
five,
so
we
measured
where
they
were
at
the
end
of
grade
four
now
we're
looking
at
where
they
are
at
the
end
of
grade
five.
That
group
of
students
again
may
be
all
with
a
certain
school.
F
F
The
implementation
of
doing
a
system
like
this,
though,
is
much
more
complex
than
this
conceptual
example,
and
it's
much
more
complex
because
of
things
like
student
mobility,
so
students
move
from
some
school,
like
students
could
move
within
a
year
from
one
teacher's
classroom
to
another.
They
could
move
from
one
building
to
another.
F
F
For
example,
we
have
to
be
able
to
accommodate
things
like
that
within
these
methodologies,
and
we
also
know
that
student
test
scores
are
not
perfect
and
what
I
mean
by
that
is:
there's
measurement
error
in
those
test
scores,
so
we
never
base
anything
on
one
single
test:
score
of
a
student.
We
try
to
use
as
much
testing
data
as
possible
to
mitigate
some
of
these
concerns
around
measurement
error.
F
F
So
again,
this
is
how
much
growth
was
made
relative
to
this
expectation,
but
these
are
statistical
models
so,
along
with
that
growth
measure,
they
produce
something
called
a
standard
error
or
a
measure
of
precision
around
that
growth
measure
so
in
using
both
of
those
values.
Together,
we
can
provide
confidence
intervals
around
that
growth
measure.
To
say
how
sure
we
are.
The
amount
of
growth
was
the
amount
that
we
saw
and
we
use
those
measures
together
or
that
idea
of
a
confidence
interval
to
interpret
the
growth
measure
and
categorize
the
growth
measure.
F
And
we
do
this
because
we
want
to
protect
educators,
whether
it's
the
individual
teacher,
whether
it's
the
individual,
school
or
district,
we
want
to
protect
them
against
any
type
of
misclassification.
When
it
comes
to
this
categorization,
so
you
will
see
a
lot
of
color
coding
within
the
tvos
system.
F
F
F
So
when
we
do
have
enough
evidence
that
the
measures
are
indeed
above
this
expectation
of
growth,
we
will
categorize
them
at
level
five,
when
we
do
have
enough
evidence
that
the
value-added
measure
growth
measure
is
below
the
expectation
of
growth
and
we'll
categorize
that
as
level
one
these
level,
two
threes
and
fours
level.
Three
is
really
that
we
don't
have
enough
evidence
to
say
anything
different
than
the
expectation
of
growth
is
happening
level.
Four
is
we
have
some
evidence,
there's
moderate
evidence,
but
it's
not
statistically
significant
evidence.
F
So,
prior
to
that
point,
back
in
93,
4
and
6,
they
were
producing
these
district
school
and
teacher
measures
and
they
were
printing
them
off
on
line
paper
and
shipping
them
out
to
all
the
leas
to
be
distributed
to
people,
but
there
had
to
have
been
an
easier
way
to
do
that.
So
what
they
did
was
built
a
web
reporting
system.
F
So
tvas
is
obviously
used
and
I'll
get
to
this
in
a
moment
in
accountability
systems
and
teacher
evaluation.
However,
there's
also
a
whole
reporting
suite
that
teachers
can
log
into,
and
principals
and
administrators
can
log
into
to
use
the
data
in
various
ways
based
on
who
is
logging
in.
They
may
be
able
to
access
different
types
of
reports.
For
example,
if
you're
a
teacher,
you
can
see
your
own
teacher's
report.
F
This
is
an
example
of
a
value-added
report
at
the
school
level.
It's
showing
you
what
the
trends
are
in
growth
and
achievement
data.
We
try
to
start
things
very
high
level
for
the
field
in
terms
of
people
interpreting
this
information.
That's
why
you
see
it's
just
a
color
coded
set
of
information.
However,
there's
abilities
to
kind
of
layer
more
data
onto
that
you
can
see
all
the
actual
numbers
that
go
into
things.
F
F
Other
reports
allow
them
to
drill
down
further
to
see
how
well
they're
doing
with
different
types
of
students.
So
in
this
report
we're
looking
at
achievement
groups
and
then
the
amount
of
growth
that
they're
making,
so
they
can
determine,
am
I
making
more
growth
with
my
lowest
or
highest
achieving
students.
We
can
see
this
for
different
schools.
We
can
see
this
for
different
teachers.
F
Again.
This
type
of
information
can
be
split
in
all
kinds
of
different
ways:
it
doesn't
have
to
be
achievement.
Groups,
maybe
we're
talking
about
socioeconomic
and
demographic
groups
or
other
types
of
student
groups.
There's
a
lot
of
different
reports
that
share
that
you
can
as
a
principal
look
at
the
effectiveness
levels
or
the
growth
measures
for
all
the
different
teachers
that
you
may
have
within
your
building.
F
We
also
have
other
reports
that
promote
equity,
so
these
reports
look
at
you
know
what
percentage
of
my
students
that
were
at
risk
were
paired
with
highly
effective
teachers,
or
what
percentage
of
my
students
that
were
not
at
risk
were
paired
with
highly
effective
teachers.
What
percentage
of
my
economically
disadvantaged
students
get
paired
with
highly
effective
teachers
versus
what
percentage
of
my
non-economically
disadvantaged
students
get
paired
with
highly
effective
teachers?
Principals
can
see
this
for
their
building.
F
District
leaders
can
see
it
for
all
schools
within
their
district.
The
state
can
see
it
for
all
districts
to
see
what
these
equity
gaps
look
like.
There's
a
lot
of
different
information.
This
is
just
kind
of
a
small
group
of
some
of
the
reports
that
are
available,
and
I
want
to
be
clear
too
that
you
know
all
these
growth
measures
are
very
almost
reflecting
upon
the
past.
F
So
it's
how
much
growth
was
made
this
past
school
year,
but
we
also
have
more
proactive
reports
at
the
student
level,
especially
these
projections,
as
we
call
them
provide
likelihoods
of
success
on
future
academic
benchmarks
for
students.
So
we
can
give
probabilities
that
an
individual
student
will
be
proficient
on
their
next
test,
based
on
all
their
prior
testing
data,
as
well
as
an
average
schooling
experience
as
they
move
forward.
We
aggregate
that
data
up
to
the
school
level
to
see
what
percentage
of
your
students
are
likely
to
be
proficient.
F
You
know
this
helps
with
resource
allocation
if
we're
thinking
about
different
subjects
and
grades.
So
again,
there's
a
lot
of
different
information
embedded
in
this
system.
It
was
the
reporting
system
itself
was
developed
as
an
informational
resource
for
educators,
so
they
can
view
all
kinds
of
different
reports
within
that
system.
Depending
on
what
level
of
access
they
have
that
access
is
managed
at
either
the
district
or
the
school
leadership
level.
F
Policymakers
have
included
tvos
in
things
like
teacher
evaluations,
state
report,
cards,
federal
accountability,
higher
education
report
cards
and
other
local
systems.
I
do
want
to
say
that
there's
a
difference
between
the
policy
side
of
how
tvos
is
being
used
versus
the
underlying
methodologies
and
analytics
that
are
used
within
tvos.
F
You
know
we
sas
are
not
deciding
the
policies
for
which
evos
or
tvos
is
used.
That's
up
to
the
states
to
decide.
As
I
said
before,
we
work
in
seven
different
states
and
statewide
implementations.
The
policies
in
each
of
those
states
are
very
different
from
one
another.
Those
are
all
decided
by
local
policy
makers,
so
there
are
very
different
ways
that
people
are
are
using
this
information.
F
So
obviously
there's
missing
2020
assessment
data
so
that
definitely
changes
things
a
bit,
and
we
also
know
that
student
learning
conditions
were
very
different
in
the
2021
school
year
or
from
2019
or
really
from
march
of
2020
until
now,
so
the
models
typically
are
the
same
except
there's
some
there's
some
pretty.
You
know
important
differences
in
terms
of
interpretation
for
a
year
like
this.
So,
as
I
said
before
that
we
were
looking
at
a
change
in
achievement
for
a
group
of
students
from
one
year
to
the
next.
F
F
F
F
You
know
it
can
help
us
understand
how
our
students
grew
in
comparison
to
other
schools,
so
some
schools
compared
to
others.
Where
did
we
see
students
not
make
as
much
growth?
Is
it
where
there
was
more
remote
learning
happening?
Did
students
make
more
growth
where
there
was
more
in-person
learning?
F
We
know
that
certain
student
populations,
whether
those
are
based
on
racial
categories
or
economically
disadvantaged
categories
or
potentially
english
learners,
some
populations
didn't
do
as
well
through
covet
as
others.
We
can
certainly
reflect
on
a
lot
of
those
things
that
have
happened,
but
I
think
the
important
part
here
is
tvos
can
really
help
us
understand
what
has
taken
place
over
the
course
of
from
2019
to
2021,
with
all
of
the
school
disruptions
with
kovid.
F
A
Thank
you
much
very
much,
dr
white
appreciate
that
yeah
we
wanted
tboss
or
sas
to
come
in
because
we
talk
a
lot
about
in
committee
tbi,
so
we'll
make
sure
our
members
feel
comfortable
with
what
the
term
is
and
basically
so
basically
tbas
is
tennessee
using
data.
We
pull
data
together
so
that
we
can
see
better
how
to
perform
as
a
state
and
educate
our
students.
So
that
does
that
be
a
fair
statement.
H
The
information
you're
providing
I
just
need
some
clarity
and
I'm
probably
going
to
misstate
some
of
the
things
you
shared
with
us,
but
there's
a
question
in
here
somewhere
sure.
I
think
that
poverty
not
saying
that's
where
we
want
it
to
be
stay
at
a
certain
level,
but
it's
a
constant
for
a
group
of
students,
sure
in
this
discussion,
okay
and
when
we
deal
with
accountability.
H
F
So
thanks
for
the
question
representative,
I
I
would
say
you
know
what
people
know
about
achievement.
Measures
is
that
achievement
and
poverty
right
now
at
least
tend
to
be
related
to
one
another,
and
so,
if
you
were
purely
only
measuring
achievement
and
trying
to
hold
teachers
accountable
to
that,
then
teachers
in
higher
poverty
situations
would
not
perform
as
well.
If
that's
what
the
accountability
was
measure
was
based
solely
on,
however,
growth
is
something
different
than
achievement,
and
growth
takes
into
account
all
of
the
prior
achievement.
F
Data
of
those
students
and
since
poverty
is
embedded
and-
and
I
think
we
can
all
agree-
you
know
the
poverty
level
of
one
individual
student
might
be
very
different
than
the
other.
The
student
they're
next
to
even,
if
they're,
both
considered
in
a
data
perspective
economically
disadvantaged,
but
the
point
being
because
we
take
into
account
all
the
prior
testing
data
at
the
individual
student
level
that
poverty
level
is
kind
of
embedded
into
their
prior
data.
F
So
then,
when
we
compare
their
prior
data
to
where
they
scored
in
the
current
year,
poverty
is
kind
of
removed
from
the
situation
for
that
particular
student,
because
it's
already
embedded
in
all
their
prior
testing
data,
as
well
as
their
current
data,
and
so
when
you're
measuring
something
like
growth.
That's
why
you
don't
see
as
much
of
a
relationship
with
poverty
levels
and
why,
in
some
of
those
early
graphs,
I
was
able
to
show
that
you
know
you
find
very
high
growth
and
low
growth
schools
kind
of
at
every
end
of
the
spectrum.
H
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
thank
you,
dr
white.
I
just
need
you
to
expound
a
little
bit
more
on
that,
and
maybe
you
know
explain
it
in
the
fifth
grade
level
for
myself
just
keep
going
sure
but
yeah,
because
I'm
I'm
I'm
I'm
a
little
bit
confused.
You
know
when
you
said
that
that
there's
no
correlation
between
poverty
and
growth
right
and
I
think
about
those
students
that
are
that,
are
you
know
highly
transitional.
You
know
that
are
moving
from
school
to
school
to
place
to
place.
H
I
think
about
those
schools
that
have
a
hard
time
finding
the
most
effective
teachers
because
of
the
communities
that
they're
in
I
think
about
you
know
all
of
these
factors
and
and
so
I'm
trying
to
I'm
trying
to
draw
the
the
the
the
correlation
between
poverty
or
or
the
lack
of
correlation
based
on
what
you
said
between
poverty
and
growth.
Can
you
help
me
with
it.
F
You
know
grade
three
through
eight
math
reading
science
and
social
studies
data,
so
to
the
extent
that
poverty
has
influenced
the
students
prior
test
scores
because
it
likely
has
right
because
of
all
the
same
reasons
that
you
mentioned,
that
is
embedded
in
their
prior
test
scores.
So
this
poverty
level
for
an
individual
student
has
already
impacted.
What's
happened
in
their
grade
5
grade
6
grade
7
test
scores.
F
So
what
we
see
is
if
we
have
two
students
in
end,
of
course
biology,
and
we
look
at
all
of
their
prior
testing
data
and,
if
I
say
every
single
one
of
their
test
scores,
I
mean
every
one
of
them
leading
up
to
end.
Of
course,
biology
is
exactly
the
same,
so
they
have
the
exact
same
test
and
one
is
very
kind
of
high
poverty
and
one
is
very
low
poverty.
F
Would
we
expect
anything
different
from
these
students?
We
know
that
all
of
their
prior
testing
data
is
identical
to
one
another.
I
would
say
that
kind
of
state
policy
has
said
we
don't
take
that
into
account
in
the
growth
model,
and
I
can
tell
you
statistically
that
adding
in
the
additional
indicator
that
this
student
is
economically
disadvantaged
and
this
student
is
not
doesn't
add
any
more
information
into
the
model,
because
we've
already
taken
into
account
all
the
prior
testing
data
for
that
student.
F
Now
that
that's
at
the
student
level,
the
individual
student
level
and
we're
talking
about
again
all
of
their
prior
testing
points
being
exactly
the
same.
So
then
we
go
one
step
higher
to
group
levels.
If
you
will
and
that's
where
it
gets
a
little
different,
so
at
the
group
level
we're
talking
about
again
the
group
with
a
school,
for
example,
and
we're
talking
about
now,
group
level
characteristics.
F
So
that's
where
we
see
the
percentage
of
students
that
are
economically
disadvantaged
at
a
school,
and
I
would
say
typically
like
we
see
in
2019
in
this
graph
if
we
look
across
the
spectrum
of
achievement
or
sorry,
the
spectrum
of
poverty
in
terms
of
group
level
poverty.
So
some
of
these
schools
over
on
the
far
right
hand,
side
80
to
90
percent
of
their
students
in
the
school,
are
designated
as
economically
disadvantaged
or
on
the
far
left
hand
side.
You
know
one
or
two
or
five
percent
of
their
students
are
designated
as
economically
disadvantaged.
F
That's
not
to
say
there
can't
be
and
to
your
point
if
schools
are
able
to
attract
better
teachers,
maybe
that
are
in
lower
poverty
areas
that
are
more
effective
for
whatever
reason,
or
there
are
more
resources
given
in
certain
places,
then
maybe
that's
going
to
change
some
of
the
group
level
association
in
terms
of
whether
the
growth
at
the
school
level
is
related
to
the
group
level.
Poverty
at
that
school,
and
one
thing
I
said
before
in
times
of
covid
because
of
school
disruptions.
F
We
know
that
a
lot
of
higher
poverty
areas
tended
to
have
more
school
disruptions,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
see
this
year
with
data
that
we're
seeing
with
some
of
the
preliminary
data,
that's
not
publicly
available.
Yet,
is
that
once
you
get
above
a
certain
threshold
in
terms
of
the
poverty
levels,
those
schools
tended
to
make
less
growth.
F
Now
again,
at
the
student
level,
we
don't
really
get
more
information,
just
saying
one
student's
economically
disadvantaged
versus
another,
when
we
take
into
account
all
their
prior
test
scores.
But
at
the
group
level,
when
we
aggregate
this
up,
there
can
be
relationships
they're,
typically
or
not,
but
in
times
of
covet
we
do
see
that
there
are
some-
and
I
I
think
one
big
takeaway
here
for
for
me-
and
I
think
just
looking
at
this
data
is
what
we
see
is
that
that
means
schooling
really
makes
a
pretty
big
difference
right.
F
H
F
H
Okay
and
just
one
one
quick
last
one
miss
chair:
what
what's
the
main
factor?
What
do
you
think
is
the
main
factor
in
increasing
growth?
Is
there?
Is
there
a
formula
that
you
know
of?
Is
it
effective
teachers?
Is
it
what
what
do
you
think
the?
What
do
you
think
the
main
factor
is
for
increasing
growth.
F
Yeah,
I
cannot
answer
what
what
is
the
main
factor
of
increasing
growth.
I
can
tell
you
this
that
there
is
a
lot
happening
in
different
schools
all
across
the
state
of
tennessee,
that
they
have
context
for
that.
I
do
not
sitting
in
an
office
doing
statistical
programming,
for
example,
I'm
I'm
not
an
educator
sitting
in
the
classroom,
so
I
know
that
educators
that
do
sit
in
the
classroom
may
use
information
from
tvos
from
an
outcome
perspective,
but
they're
also
using
a
lot
of
other
data
or
implementing
a
lot
of
other
interventions.
F
You
know
I
do
not
know
what
intervention
may
be
implemented
that
potentially
could
be
the
best.
We
are
happy
to
do.
Research
with
the
state,
though,
in
terms
of
data
being
captured
by
the
state,
to
do
any
type
of
analysis
of
what
is
related
to
the
amount
of
growth
students
are
making.
So
if
there
is
something
being
captured
at
the
state
level
that
we
could
use
to
compare
to
the
growth
being
made,
we
can
certainly
understand
some
of
the
trends
in
relationships.
H
A
A
G
Red
light
is
that
correct?
Can
you
use
this
on?
We've
got
you
okay!
Thank
you.
Chairman
wyatt!
Didn't
chairperson
moody,
it's
great
to
be
here
and
good
morning
to
all
of
you,
I'm
director
of
schools
in
maryville
city
schools,
mike
winstead
as
my
eighth
year
as
director
and
prior
to
that
I
served
as
a
research
and
evaluation
person
in
marx,
county
schools.
G
So,
as
a
teacher
during
92
93
96,
when
those
reports
came
out,
I
was
on
the
receiving
end
of
the
of
the
first
tvos
reports
as
a
high
school
math
teacher
and
then
moved
into
research
and
evaluation
and
oversaw
oversaw
that
work
for
for
eight
years
and
I'm
a
champion
of
of
growth
data.
I
think
it's
it's
vitally
important
and
coming
from
maryville
city
schools,
that's
maybe
a
little
bit
unusual
we're
one
of
the
highest
achieving
schools
in
in
the
state.
G
All
seven
schools
reward
schools,
a
blue
ribbon
school
award
winner
this
year
and
as
well
as
last
year,
very
high,
achieving
very
proud
of
of
our
achievement,
but
more
proud
of
our
growth,
we're
a
level
five
district
and
growth
across
the
board.
All
schools
are
level
five
and
that's
the
expectation
you
know
it's
I
know
there's
you
know,
there's
always
that
conversation
of
you
know
we
need
to
just
focus
on
achievement
achievements.
G
You
know
they've
got
to
it's
like
playing
a
game,
you're
playing
a
sporting
event,
you
win
or
you
lose,
and
I
think,
from
the
student
perspective,
there
are
a
lot
of
times
throughout
throughout
their
schooling
career,
where
that's
absolutely
the
case.
There's
a
lot
of
high-stakes
tests
from
kindergarten
all
the
way
up.
Every
time
you
take
a
test,
it
counts
as
your
grade
throughout
the
year.
Those
are
high
stakes,
you
win
or
you
lose.
You
take
the
test.
G
G
But
if
I'm
trying
to
evaluate
how
my
teachers
are
doing
how
my
schools
are
doing,
how
we're
doing
as
a
district,
then
it's
not
a
matter
of
just
achievement.
I
mean
that's.
That's
one
side
of
the
coin.
I
can't
just
focus
on
achievement.
I
have
to
focus
on.
Are
we
reaching
all
kids
wherever
they
are?
They
could
be
low,
achieving
average
or
high
or
we
are
we
meeting
the
needs
of
all
of
our
kids
academically.
All
of
them
deserve.
If
they're
going
to
spend
180
days
with
us,
then
they
need
to.
G
They
deserve
at
least
a
year's
growth,
or
else
we've
wasted
their
time
and
from
the
highest
achieving
kids.
I
know
there's
many
comments
you
know.
Should
we
expect
the
same
growth
out
of
maybe
high
poverty
students
that
we
normally
hear
marx
county,
especially
where
we
have
all
types
of
schools
I
heard
from
both
ends,
I'm
you
know
inner
city,
schools,
these
teachers
and
I
hear
from
the
west
knoxville
schools.
Our
kids
are
too
smart
to
show
growth,
I
mean
that's
a
myth
created
by
teachers
of
those
kids
who
couldn't
show
growth.
G
You
know,
we've
got
to.
We've
got
to
have
myth.
Busters
we've
got
to
show
use
data
to
bust
those
myths,
so
that
teachers
don't
hide
behind
the
fact
that,
well,
my
kids
are
in
the
90th
percentile.
They
don't
have
to
show
growth,
and
so
then
they
drop
to
the
80th
or
75th
they're,
still
they're
still
at
the
highest
level
of
performance
on
our
test,
and
we
take
credit
for
that.
Well,
they've
dropped
from
the
90th
to
the
75th.
You
don't
get
credit
for
that.
You
get
blamed
for
it,
there's
a
problem
there.
G
We've
got
to
have
that
expectation
that
that
all
tennessee
children
and
it's
not
just
the
tested
subjects.
It's
not
just
tvos
from
kindergarten
all
the
way.
Through
the
spanish
class
french
class,
all
teachers
need
to
be
focused
on
developing
kids
and
moving
them
forward
from
wherever
they
are
low,
average
or
high,
taking
them
from
that
point
and
moving
them
as
far
as
they
can
grab
them
grabbing
them
by
the
bootstraps
and
moving
them
as
far
as
they
can
is
is
what
is
the
approach
we
want
to
take.
G
One
of
the
things
that
came
out
of
the
special
session-
and
I
just
want
to
thank
you
all
for-
is
the
out
of
the
literacy
success.
Success
act.
Success
act
the
last
section
of
that
for
the
first
time
we're
going
to
have
individual
growth
scores
for
our
k-2
teachers
from
the
universal
screeners
that
each
district
has
adopted.
G
Yes,
that's
huge,
I'm!
I
would
be
one
to
say,
as
we
look
back
three
to
five
years
from
now,
and
we
see
our
literacy
scores
have
gone
up,
that
individual
growth
score
com,
piece
of
that
legislation
might
be
the
most
significant
piece
of
it
all
that
every
once,
first
and
second
grade
teachers
now
are
held
accountable
and
can
see
the
growth
of
their
20
kids.
We're
going
to
see
a
difference.
G
We're
going
to
see
a
difference
across
this
state
so-
and
I
will
just
say
in
response
to
some
of
the
questions
I
think
the
data
we
have
the
statistical
model,
which
can
say
some
things,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
I've
always
found
to
be
the
best
with
teachers
is
show
the
data.
You
know
if
they
say
well
we're
too
high
achieving
school
to
show
growth.
Then,
let's
look
at
all
the
high
achieving
schools
that
show
growth.
I
mean
we
can
go
to
any
percentile.
G
I
can
say
we're
at
the
70th
percentile
and
look
at
the
there's
a
wide
range
of
growth
in
that
70th
percentile
band,
there's
some
that
are
making
the
growth
some
that
are
not
some
that
are
making
it
at
the
40th
percentile
of
poverty
that
some
some
make
it
some.
Not.
So,
let's
look
at
that
and
say,
regardless
of
where
we
are
it's
possible
and
we're
showing
that
it's
possible
all
across
the
state
and
so
that'll
be
the
expectation
wherever
you
are,
that
you
take
kids
and
move
them
at
least
a
year.
I
I
So
if
you
have
a
student
who
consistently
tests
in
the
99th
percentile
truly
how
highly
a
highly
achieving
student
every
single
year,
so
they
they
were
in
the
99th
or
98th
percentile
in
seventh
grade,
and
then
they
moved
to
eighth
grade.
There's
the
perception
by
that
teacher
of
dang
it
you
know
like
gosh,
I'm
really
glad
I've
got
this
smart
student,
but
I
have
no
there's.
I've
got
about
one
percent
opportunity
to
show
growth
there.
I
I
don't
and-
and
I
understand
that
concern-
I
don't
understand
how,
if
you
have
a
have
that
consistently
high
achieving
student
and
you've
got
them
in
the
98th
or
99th
percentile
in
seventh
grade.
How
does
that
teacher?
How
does
that
student
help
that
teacher's
growth
score
in
eighth
grade,
and
then
I've
got
to
follow
up
after
that,
but
answer
that.
First,
if
you
don't
mind.
F
Yeah
thanks
representative,
this
is
a
great
question
and
I
I
think
it's
a
really
important
one.
So
when
I
talked
about
value-added
measures
before
I
kept
saying
the
phrase
that
we're
measuring
the
growth
of
a
group
of
students
right,
so
we
don't
measure
growth
specifically
for
the
individual
kid
and
conclusively
say
they
did
or
did
not
make
growth,
and
so,
in
your
example,
just
to
answer
your
question
directly.
F
If
the
kid's
testing
at
the
99th
percentile
every
single
year
can
that
individual
student
make
as
much
growth
as
another
student.
The
answer
is
no,
of
course,
not
if
they're,
if
they're
testing
at
the
top
of
the
possible
test,
and
can
they
increase
in
a
value
high
enough
like
high
enough
to
show
you
know
the
highest
possible
amounts
of
growth,
I
would
say
no.
We
can
take
that
down
to
the
other
end
right,
kids
at
the
first
percentile.
F
Can
they
fall
as
much
as
any
other
student.
The
answer
is
no,
of
course,
not
right,
they're
already
at
the
very
bottom
of
the
test,
they're
testing
at
the
very
very
bottom
level.
So
in
both
of
these
cases,
yes,
you
can't
grow
higher.
You
can't
grow
lower,
but
teachers
have
groups
of
students
and
what
we
see
is
just
like
in
this
example
at
the
school
level,
and
we
could
show
you
the
same
thing
at
the
teacher
level.
Is
you
don't
have
a
group
of
students
that
tends
to
be
at
the
99th
percentile?
F
You
may
have
them
high.
They
may
be
up
at
the
70th
percentile,
but
that
means
a
lot
of
those
students
can
show
plenty
growth
to
say
that
we
have
evidence
that
teachers
are
making
more
than
expected
with
that
very,
very
high,
achieving
group
of
students,
but
for
an
individual
single
student
you're,
absolutely
yeah.
I
But
where
I
think
the
flaw
is,
though,
is
that
the
individual
scores
affect
the
group
that
the
individual
scores
are.
The
individual
growth
is
all
calculated
into
how
the
group
moves,
and
so,
if
I
just
I
have
an
issue
and
it
you
know,
it
may
just
be
one
of
those
things
that
every
system
is
flawed.
But
I
think
this
is
a
flaw
in
this
system.
I
I
have
an
issue
that
a
teacher
is
punished
for
having
a
high
achieving
student
for
receiving
one
from
seventh
grade
into
eighth
grade
or
whatever
grade.
It
is
because
that
one
student,
their
growth,
cannot
help
the
group
that
much
and
we're
talking
about
the
group's
growth.
Now
if
they
have
a
bunch
of
students
in
that
70th
percentile
yeah,
they
got
a
lot
of
room
there,
and
I
understand
that
it
would
be
a
rare
thing
that
an
entire
group
would
be
that
high.
F
Yeah,
thanks
representative,
so
I
I
wouldn't
necessarily
say
negative
in
a
maybe
a
mathematical
sense,
like
expectation
of
growth,
being
a
value
of
zero.
If
that
student
maintained
their
same
relative
position,
they
would
be
at
a
value
of
zero
and,
as
a
group
again,
you
know
if
we
looked
at
the
highest,
achieving
groups
of
students
with
teachers.
F
You'll
see
that
of
the
highest
achieving
teachers
in
the
entire
state,
meaning
the
highest.
Achieving
groups
of
students
with
teachers
in
the
state
you'll
still
see
teachers
at
those
level.
Five
levels
and
you'll
still
see
teachers
at
the
level
one
level
because
their
students
are
falling
below
and
losing
ground
like
we
were
just
stating
before
and
again
just
to
look
at
the
very
opposite
end
the
teachers
that
have
the
lowest
achieving
students
by
the
same
kind
of
logic.
F
You
know
we
also
see
teachers
with
the
lowest
achieving
students
making
more
than
expected,
but
also
less
than
expected,
and
so
we
see
those
teachers
too,
at
the
very,
very
lowest
end
of
the
level
making
less
than
expected,
and-
and
so
empirically
I
understand
your
concern.
I
really
do
and
I
think
a
lot
of
teachers
have
that
empirically:
it's
not
something
that
we're
seeing
in
terms
of
the
outcome
measures,
those
teacher
level
measures
being
impacted
by
that
and
and
I'll
also
just
state
that
you
know.
F
Theoretically,
you
could
put
a
test
out
there
that
doesn't
have
a
top
right.
There
could
be
a
computer
adaptive
assessment
that
basically
has
no
ceiling
in
it
whatsoever.
That's
more
of
a
measurement
aspect
of
the
system
of
the
testing
system
itself.
Less
of
you
know
purely
a
a
an
issue
with
the
the
growth
measure.
So
if,
if
the
data
the
testing
instrument
itself
supported
the
notion
of
there
is
no
cap,
then
you
know,
then
I
could
say
to
you:
a
single
student
could
always
score
higher
from
one
year
to
the
next.
I
And
then
my
last
question
is
just
I
guess,
kind
of
on
the
opposite
end
of
the
spectrum
here,
so
I
know
we
have
a
lot
of
level
five
schools
based
on
growth
and
that's
great
and
I
think
that's
a
good
one
aspect
to
look
at,
but
but
one
concern
I
have
is:
are
you
able
to
hide
behind
that
because
you
have
you
have
level
five?
You
have
level
five
schools
based
on
growth,
who
also
have
thirty
percent
of
their
students.
Reading
on
grade
level,
you
know
I
mean,
and
so
you've
got.
I
Oh
well,
congratulations
on
your
growth,
but
going
back
to
that
achievement
versus
growth.
I
I
don't
think
we
wanna
talk
about
growth
being
that
much
more
important
than
achievement.
Ultimately,
at
the
end
of
the
day
I
want
to
know,
can
can
you
can
you
add
subtract,
multiply
and
divide,
and
can
you
read
regardless
of
how
much
you
have
grown
from
one
year
to
the
other.
F
Yeah
great
great
point
representative,
I
would
say
that
you
know
what
you're
what
you're
getting
at,
which
I
I
would
wholeheartedly
agree
with,
is
that
growth
and
achievement
are
both
very
important.
I
would,
I
would
say,
they're
measuring
just
two
different
things
and-
and
I
I
think,
depending
on
I'm,
not
stating
what
the
goal
should
be
by
any
means,
but
depending
on
what
the
goal
could
be
in
terms
of
stakeholder
goals,
you
know
maybe
it's
more
important
to
look
at
one
or
the
other,
depending
on
what
your.
I
And
I
guess
I
just
make
that
comment
in
response
to
just
what
was
said
earlier
about.
Well,
we
we
don't
care
about
how
high
your
achievement
is.
We
want.
We
want
to
know
how
much
you're
you're,
how
much
you've
grown.
You
know,
even
if
you,
even
if
you've
got
high
achievement,
we
want
to
know
how
much
you've
grown
if
you've
got
high
achievement.
That's
really
good
enough
for
me,
you
know
what
I
mean
I
mean.
I
Obviously
I
I
want
that
growth
score
to
be
good
too,
but
if
you're
knocking,
if
you're
knocking
the
top
out
of
test
and
reading
math
and
all
those
key
subjects,
your
your
level,
three
growth
score
isn't
as
important
to
me.
Are
you
producing
students
who
can
be
successful
in
society?
Is
my
ultimate
concern,
and
so
I
I
don't
know
like
I
say
I
understand
the
value
of
the
growth
score.
G
G
And
I
and
I
I
where
I
would
send
my
three
kids-
would
be
the
school.
That's
gonna
grow
my
student,
so
that
they're
not
wasting
time.
You
know,
I
guess
your
question
is:
are
we?
Are
the
schools
achieving
that
result
because
of
what's
happening
in
the
classroom
or
in
spite
of
what's
happening
in
the
classroom?
And
I
think
both
of
those
things
are
happening
across
the
state?
We
have
to
be
careful
of
what
we
reward.
I
J
J
What
it
does
is
take.
What
it
can
do
is
just
really
take
a
teacher's
effectiveness
year
over
year
and,
as
dr
wednesday
said,
making
sure
that
they're
not
sitting
there
for
180
days,
I'm
paraphrasing
you,
you
know
and
not
growing
so,
and
then
you
also
said
that
the
the
the
data
is
available
to
both
leas
and
and
instructors
and
school
level.
Administrators.
Is
that
correct?
That's.
F
J
Representative,
so
it
you
know,
once
you
determine
an
effective
instructor
now
it
sounds
like
he
or
she
now
is,
is
effective,
they've
done
a
good
job
year
over
year.
Within
this
this
situation,
can
the
model
predict
or
ask
the
lea
to
maybe
spread
those
effective
teachers
across
the
lea
to
to
make
our
poor
performing
skills
better.
F
So,
thanks
representative,
I
would
say
the
the
model
itself
isn't
asking.
The
the
measurement
of
growth
is
what
the
model
is
doing
and
the
model
is
not
asking
the
school
districts
to
kind
of
do
anything
in
terms
of
spread
some
of
the
the
growth.
That's
that's
happening
with
one
teacher
kind
of
out
across
through
through
other
teachers
or
anything.
But
what
I,
what
I
will
say
is
happening
in
a
report
within
the
system.
F
The
report
then
allows
the
user
to
create
a
more
proactive
piece
of
information
that
says:
okay.
Well,
right
now,
let's
say
the
reporting
in
a
normal
year
was
released
in
you
know,
august
or
september.
It
can
say
here
all
my
at-risk
students
hear
all
my
not
at-risk
students
hear
all
my
effectiveness
levels
of
my
teachers.
J
All
right
so,
but
in
my
mind
I
I
think
it
should
be
it's
it's
a
great
equity
report,
but
if
and
and
I'm
not
saying
any
are
out
there
that
that
that
are
doing
that.
But
you
know
dr
wednesday
said
in
knox
county
I
mean
we
have
the
full
spectrum
you
know
of,
of
of
schools
and
so
and
they're
fairly
equally
distributed
across
professional
lines
and
and
and
and
everything.
J
So
I
like
the
report,
but
if
it's
just
a
report,
that's
just
data
for
an
laa
to
look
at
and
maybe
not
act
on
especially
year
over
year.
So
if,
if,
if
the
answer
is
you're
not
doing
very
well
as
far
as
the
equity
reporting
you're,
not
putting
your
highly
effective
teachers
in
situations
that
can
improve
over
our
results,
what
can
we
do?
You
know
year
over
year
to
make
that
if
that's
where
it
relies
make
that
equity
report
give
it
a
little
more
meat.
F
Yeah,
thanks
representative,
I
I
would
say
that
to
me
again:
there's
a
separation
between
the
analytics
and
the
measurement
of
some
of
these
outcomes
versus
some
of
the
policies
in
place,
and
I
would
say
you
know,
policies
whether
those
be
at
the
state
level
or
the
local
level
would
be
what
would
drive
what
you're
seeing
so
reflecting
on
that
report
and
deciding
to
do
something
about
it.
Representative.
G
It
includes
data
not
only
there's
several
demographic
type
reports
in
there
about
a
number
of
teachers
who
are
leaving
the
profession
in
each
district,
how
many
new
teachers
you
have,
but
it
also
has
a
report
breaking
down
where
our
most
effective
teachers,
which
which
students
are
our
most
effective
teachers
working
with
and
how
many
of
our
below
students
who
came
into
the
grade
level
scoring
at
that
below
level.
How
many?
G
J
The
the
the
poorer
poorer
students
didn't
do
as
well,
and
I
think
it
gets
to
what
my
colleague
from
from
memphis
said
that
that
there
are
there's
a
there's,
there's
a
stratification.
There
are
different
types
of
poverty
and
I
think
this
covett
situation
pointed
that
out
there
there's
some
folks
that
are
that
are
poor,
but
still
could
be
effective.
J
You
know
from
from
a
virtual
learning
and
there's
some
that
are
and
may
have
a
two-year
that
they're
keeping
while
they're,
while
while
they're
done
just
as
a
wild
example,
but
but
I
I
think
at
some
point
it
is
classroom.
I
wholeheartedly
agree
that
the
classroom
is
extremely
important,
especially
in
our
in
our
areas,
but
I
don't
think
that's
the
only
reason
that
that
we
saw
a
downward
trend,
a
shift
in
this
in
in
this
report.
I
think
you
know
I
would
ask
that
you
maybe
kind
of
take
that.
J
Take
that-
and
you
know
see
if
you
can
always
improve
a
model
but
again,
like
I
say
there,
but
there's
there's,
there's
poor
in
there
and
then
there's
you
know
poor
poor,
so
it'll
be
good.
If
we
could
we
could
you
know
try
to
to
me
this
was
an
opportunity,
an
unfortunate
worldwide
pandemic,
but
an
opportunity
for
us
to
learn,
and
I
would
hate
that
we
just
take
that
data
and
put
it
all
into
one
bucket
and
say
they
weren't
in
the
classroom.
So
just
something
for
your
consideration.
F
F
F
If
you
do
that,
then
there
can
be
no
relationship,
because,
analytically
or
statistically,
you
took
it
away
and
that
in
some
cases
it
depends
what
you
want
to
use
the
information,
for
that
can
be
a
good
thing
in
some
cases,
if
you
want
to
use
it
for
something
very
specific
or
it
may
also,
you
know
hide
something
that
could
be
happening
within
the
data
such
as
growth
over
in
this
group
and
forget
poverty
for
a
second.
But
just
you
know
think
about
any
group
level
characteristics
if
you
adjust
for
all
of
them.
F
Essentially,
you
could
be
taking
away
any
empirical
growth
that
could
be
being
made
differently
with
different
groups
and
just
making
it
impossible
to
measure
that
because
you're
essentially
taking
it
out
from
a
statistical
perspective
and
again,
I
would
just
say
that
they're
just
different
uses
of
the
information,
so
if
you're
using
it
for
this
purpose
or
that
purpose,
maybe
you
would
or
would
not
want
to
make
those
types
of
adjustments.
It
would
all
depend
on
what
you're
trying
to
do
with
it.
A
Thank
you,
okay
members,
I'm
getting
to
as
quick
as
we
can
a
lot
of
good
questions
and
thank
you
so
much
for
your
engagement.
This
is
one
reason
I
want
to
do
this
before
we
go
back
in
the
legislative
session
in
january.
Since
tivos
is
such
an
integral
part
of
our
accountability
system
in
tennessee,
we
really
need
to
have
an
understanding
when
we're
talking
about
bills.
Whatnot,
so
ask
your
questions.
We're
moving
right
along
good
discussion,
representative
love,
you're
next.
E
They
also
discovered
that
consistency
in
the
classroom
is
an
important
factor
when
we're
talking
about.
You
know
how
this
child
will
learn,
how
the
child
will
grow,
because
these
are
real
situations
where
a
child
who
is
in
a
poverty
situation
coming
to
school
every
day
we
addressed
absenteeism
yesterday,
is
expecting
to
see
that
same
teacher.
E
The
rest
of
the
semester,
full
transparency-
I
have
a
school
in
my
district.
That's
why
I'm
glad
my
school
board
members
are
here.
Robert
churchwell
elementary
school
is
on
its
third
principle.
I
think
in
the
last
two
years,
just
got
here
in
august
and
is
now
gone
said,
wasn't
a
good
fit.
I
got
to
go
now.
E
The
importance
of
this
is
that
robert
churchill
is
right
in
the
middle
of
the
zip
code,
37208,
which
I
won't
belabor
you
with
the
report
about
high
poverty
and
low
principal
income
that
the
washington
post
reports
from
march
2018
list
out
where
america's
prisoners
are
born,
identify
that
in
that
zip
code,
if
you're
born
there,
you
are
seven
times
more
likely
to
go
to
prison
before
the
age
third
than
anybody
else.
Why
is
it
important
if
the
principal
keeps
rotating
and
the
teachers
keep
rotating.
E
Teachers
are
trying
their
best
to
teach.
There
has
to
be
an
impact
on
the
students,
achievement
and
growth
if
they
see
a
different
principle
every
two
years,
if
the
parents
just
get
used
to
trusting
this
principal
and
this
teacher
with
their
child's
education
and
then
that
teacher's
gone
that
principle's
gone.
F
Yeah,
this
is
a
great
question
representative.
I
would
say
that
sas
has
not
been
asked
to
do
any
research
within
tennessee
on
teacher
mobility
or
principal
kind
of
turnover
or
teacher
turnover,
and
then
the
resulting
growth
outcomes
that
are
measured
by
tvos,
but
it's
certainly
something
if
the
state
was
capturing
data
on,
and
they
probably
do
that
we
could
look
at
in
terms
of
you
know
in
this
group
of
schools
are
the
ones
that
we're
seeing
making
less
growth
tending
to
be
those
with
the
higher
teacher
turnover
and
principal
turnover.
F
You
know
you
wouldn't
want
to
adjust
this
kind
of
thing
out
of
the
growth
measure,
because
then
you
couldn't
determine
if
schools
like
this
were
making
less
growth,
and
so
you
know
in
that
case,
this
would
be
a
use
of
you
know
kind
of
measure
growth
achievement
to
achievement
one
year
to
the
next
and
then
put
it
alongside
this
other
data
that
you're
mentioning
so
that
you
can
determine
how
much
of
an
impact
is.
This
kind
of
thing
happening
with
schools.
E
Not
only
does
it
put
me
on
notice
for
my
behavior
right,
but
but
it
also
says
to
me
that
I'm
in
a
situation
where
I
am
going
to
be
nurtured
and
I'm
going
to
be
educated
because
there
was
a
consistent
level
of
education
that
my
sisters
received,
my
parents
knew
the
teachers
now,
of
course
you
have
some
mobility,
that's
natural,
because
teachers
will
leave.
Teachers
will
come
and
that's
a
natural
thing,
but
I
think
we
talk
about
high
poverty
areas.
E
A
A
So
that's
my
question.
We
keep
bringing
up
poverty,
but
we
still
have
to
measure
where
the
individual
child
is
and
where
the
individual
teacher
so
are,
you
are
you
saying,
tivos
should
not
be
there
for
that
or
tivos
is
good.
So
we
know,
but
I
understand
what
you're
saying,
but
help
me
out
a
little
bit.
E
F
E
F
E
Right
seahorse
elementary
identified
that
you
got
some
highly
effective
teachers
and
you
have
students
at
risk,
but
then
it
also
shows
there's
a
20
26
percent
gap,
yeah
right.
If
we
just
say
okay.
Well,
we
see
that's
20,
okay,
all
right,
good
job
y'all!
I
know
you
can't
do
that.
You
got
to
look
and
say:
okay.
Now,
how
do
we
do
our
very
best
to
make
sure
that
we
then
put
those
highly
effective
teachers
in
the
classrooms
with
those
students
who
may
have
some
other
issues
going
on
and
the
beautiful
thing
about
data?
E
Yes,
there's
outliers,
always
in
data,
it's
always
going
to
be
that
bell-shaped
curve
out
there
outliers.
But
in
that
middle
part
you
will
have
your
95
significance
right
to
say
that
this
group
right
here
is
statistically
significant,
like
use
the
right
term
right
there,
all
right.
You
use
that
to
identify
that.
If
we
do
this,
then
we
might
be
able
to
mitigate
some
of
the
factors
in
that.
That's
what
I
think
the
beauty
of
the
tvos
data
can
be
if
we
use.
E
H
H
Mr
chair,
we
want
the
best
teachers
just
like
under
the
izone
model.
We
want
the
best
teachers
in
you
know
the
schools
that
need
need
the
most
help,
but
why
would
they
go?
And
then,
when
you
do
get
one
good
teacher,
that's
in
that
school
that
that
does
get
a
level
five
or
something
next
year,
I'm
out
of
here
for
burnout
reasons,
possibly
or
other
conditions
or
or
dealing
with
possible
disciplinary
issues.
H
This
thing
another,
and
so
so
that's
where
this
model
is
flawed
and
you
we
cannot
escape
the
poverty
issue
when
it
comes
to
evaluating.
You
know
those
teachers
that
are
in
in
these
schools,
where
it
is
high
risk.
Thank
you
thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
answer,
even
with
all
your
enthusiasm,
mr
chair.
A
C
You,
mr
chairman,
thank
you,
dr
white,
dr
winstead,
for
being
here.
Let
me
ask
you
this.
Let
me
start
off
with
this,
and
I've
got
I'll.
Try
to
be
brief.
Mr
chairman,
do
you
you
all
know
how
many
tests,
or
teachers
and
students
are
subjected
to
on
an
annual
school
school
year
basis,
the
annual
evaluation
assessments,
whatever
y'all
know,
the
number
of
those
that
students
and
teachers
have
to
administer
on
an
annual
basis.
C
G
G
G
C
Here's
what
I'm
getting
to-
and
I
think
representative
love,
representative,
mckenzie
and
representative
cochran-
are
we're
all
kind
of
getting
to
this
point.
I
think
what
our
parents
want
is
they
want
assurances
that
they
send
their
kids
to
school,
regardless
of
where
the
school
is
that
the
kids
are
going
to
be
able
to
read
and
write
when
they
get
out
of
there
and
pass
me
reach
achievement
level
how
they
get
there?
You
know
that's
window
dressing
to
me.
C
It
seems
like
there's
almost
data
overload,
I'm
I'm
that
overloaded,
just
being
here
walking
into
all
this
stuff
and
being
just
consumed
with
it.
So
I
I'm
just
kind
of
wondering
is
t
vice.
Is
it
helping
us
reach
our
goals
where
every
parent
doesn't
matter
what
school
they
go
to,
whether
if
they
send
their
kids
to
school,
they're,
going
to
be
able
to
read
and
write,
and
so
far
I
think
we're
failing
on
that?
C
G
Well,
I
definitely
think
tvos
is
a
needed
piece
of
information
to
help
us
get
there.
I
mean
it's
again.
The
end
goal
is
all
kids
be
on
track.
There's,
no
doubt
that's
what
we
want
for
everybody,
but
at
the
same
time
I
I
can
think
of
both
ends
of
that.
If
I've
got
a
student
at
the
25th
percentile,
you
know
that's
that
low
level
of
approaching.
We
call
that
approaching.
That's!
That's
that's
in
that
second
tier
to
go
from
there
to
on
track
is
our
own
tracks
around
the
60th
63rd
percentile.
G
That's
a
huge
amount
of
growth
necessary
to
get
that
student
on
track.
So
that
say
that
fourth
grade
year
that
fourth
grade
teacher,
we
want
them
to
move
that
kid
from
the
25th
to
the
30th
to
35th,
and
we
need
to
have
that
see
the
tcap.
The
achievement
itself
wouldn't
pick
up
that
movement.
It
would
just
say:
well,
the
kids
still
failed.
G
So
that
then
the
next
teacher
can
take
that
kid
from
the
40th
or
45th
and
when
we
all
celebrate
at
the
end
that
we
got
a
student
who
couldn't
who
entered
kindergarten
in
dire
straits
and
can
graduate
on
track
passing.
You
know
the
tests
and
the
good
scoring
act
and
every
teacher
along
the
way
says.
I
contributed
this
part
to
that.
I
contributed
that
part
and
we
all
we
all
had
to
make
over
a
year's
growth
to
get
that
kid
there.
G
G
So
I'm
afraid,
if
we
put
all
of
our
focus
on
as
as
was
said,
just
get
kids
that
they
can
read,
write
do
math
do
science.
Well,
we
need
who
we
also
need,
kids,
who
can
do
that
in
an
exceptional
way
in
an
amazing
way?
I
mean
that's
the
ones
you
know
that
are
maybe
the
future
scientists
and
doing
some
amazing
things.
So
we
need
to
know.
Are
we
keeping
that
95th
percentile
kid
academically
where
they
ought
to
be
at
the
95th
percentile,
at
least,
if
not
even
higher?
G
So
I
I
think
you
know
the
the
nuances,
the
nuance
in
in
student
movement
up
and
down.
We
have
to
have
a
tool
that
is
sensitive
enough
to
pick
all
that
up,
so
that
we
can
evaluate
it.
We've
been
at
school
administrators
principals
and
then
individual
teachers
to
know
which
kids
were
reaching,
which
kids
were
not
and
how
we
can
do
better.
C
Let
me
follow
up
with
that
with
you,
if
I
may,
and
so
I'm
we're
talking
in
general
average
student.
You
know
student
without
learning
disabilities
issues
like
that
so
forth.
You
know
when
you're
measuring
performance
percentile,
that's
based
upon
comparison
to
all
the
other
students
out
there,
so
if
all
the
other
students
are
doing
good,
this
is
going
to
push
this
student
look.
I
just
I
kind
of
feel
like
that.
Unless
we
have
a
baseline
level
and
look,
this
is
public
education.
C
C
C
B
B
B
B
We
all
have
those
schools
in
our
those
achievement,
schools
in
our
district
and
there's
always
the
number
of
growth,
but
we
never
speak
about
proficiency,
mastering
being
competent,
and
so
my
question
is:
do
we
continue
to
dialogue
on
failure
and
not
actually
speak
about
achievement
and
what
we
are
doing
good
and
then
rewarding
those
kids,
those
teachers
who
are
excellent?
Who
are
our
future
scientists?
Do
we
are
we
holding
them
back?
I
speak
often
to
a
lot
of
kids,
who
are
very,
they
love
to
learn.
B
Yes,
they
can
read,
write
and
do
math,
but
they
feel
you
ask
them
well
how
school?
Oh
my
gosh,
it's
so
boring,
it's
so
boring.
I
sit
here
and
wait
on
everybody
else,
and
my
concern
is,
I
think
our
model
is
wrong
and
we're
trying
to
figure
out
we're
all
we're
all
here.
That's
what
these
committee
meetings
are
for
and
we've
got
a
lot
of
smart
people
in
the
room,
but
I
really
believe
that
our
reward
system
is
backwards
and
we
need
to
really
encourage
proficiency.
B
Mastering,
if
you
know
it
great,
if
you
don't
just
you
know,
get
it
till
you
get
it
but
reward
these
high
achievers.
We
don't
ever
talk
about
that
and
my
question
is:
has
our
public
institutions
become?
How
did
I
write?
Let
me
look
that
note
up
here.
Just
a
second.
How
did
I
write
that?
Are
we
continuing?
B
Are
we
dumbed
down
in
our
public
institutions
versus
requiring
high
achievement
tops,
or
I
can't
remember
what
you
said,
dr
whitebeats,
you
know
goals,
you
know
really
setting
the
bar
high.
I
guess
is
that
what
I'm
wanting
to
say-
and
so
I
mean
we
can
sit
here-
we're
always
going
to
have
people
that
didn't
do
good
in
school.
B
I
will
admit
I
was
a
middle
achiever.
I
didn't
I
didn't.
I
just
wanted
to
get
through
12th
grade
and
there's
going
to
be
kids
like
that.
But
if
we
constantly
set
our
energies
on
that
and
and
we
don't
encourage
high
achievement,
we're
never
our
data.
Every
time
you
come
in
here
is
going
to
be
the
same.
F
Yeah
I
just
again
separating
the
policy
side
from
tivos.
You
know
tivos
in
and
of
itself
is
measuring
analytics
the
policies
of
how
people
are
using
that
or
your
whole
accountability
system
is
obviously
more
of
a
doe
policy
decision.
Stakeholder
policy
thing
achievement
again
is
measured
by
the
test
achievement
the
performance
levels
on
those
assessments
measure
that
achievement
they
have
that
advanced
performance
level
or
whatever
it
is
in
tennessee.
F
But
if
you
measure
growth,
if
you
look
at
growth,
as
dr
winstead
has
said,
as
well
now,
you're
focusing
on
every
single
student
and
anywhere,
they
are
on
the
spectrum
of
achievement,
which
means
also
the
very
highest
achieving
kids
and
you're,
going
to
compare
those
highest.
Achieving
students
to
their
own
prior
test
scores
to
see
if
we're
making
growth
with
the
highest
achieving
students.
So
one
of
the
main
aspects
of
tvos
is
to
see
whether,
like
in
this
report,
shows
the
achievement
groups.
F
So
we
have
our
highest
achievement
group
on
the
far
right
hand
side
and
are
we
making
actual
growth
with
the
highest,
achieving
kids,
and
so
it
does
allow
there
to
be
more
focus
on
students
of
the
entire
spectrum
of
achievement
and
to
see
how
they're
doing
from
one
year
to
the
next
but
yeah.
The
idea
of
whether
to
focus
more
on
achievement
or
focus
more
on
growth
is
obviously
not
something
for
me
really
to
weigh
in
on
it's
more
of
a
policy
decision
for
the
state
of
tennessee.
B
B
Just
one
question
this
just
popped
out
of
nowhere,
and
I
don't
know
if
it's
the
right
time
to
ask
the
question.
But
I'm
just
going
to
go
ahead
and
ask
it.
Where
are
we
as
a
nation
on
level
of
education
compared
to
any
other
country?
And
I
don't
know
if
you
know
that
now
but
I'd
like
to
kind
of
know
that
if
you
can
find
that
out
because
since
you're
the
big
data
guy
you'd
be
able
to
tell
me.
B
A
C
Maybe
an
example.
A
very
general
example
might
be
economic
conditions
that
change
over
time
across
districts.
Maybe
some
districts
go
through
periods
of
prosperity
and
others
through
economic
recession.
I
guess
kovitz.
Another
example
that
you
just
gave
covet
could
have
had
a
different
impact
across
different
districts.
C
Since
we
we
have
the
ability
to
use
these
scores
to
evaluate
teachers
and
districts.
I
guess
I'm
wondering
how
important
it
is
or
would
be,
and
whether
your
model
can
measure
the
the
difference
between
time
varying
characteristics
that
vary
by
district
and
the
teachers,
efforts
and
the
or
the
efforts
of
the
school
district.
F
Can
we
adjust
the
methodologies
so
that
time
varying
characteristics
could
be
taken
into
account?
I
would
say
yes,
the
first
step
again
is
to
capture
and
collect
that
data,
and
then
you
know
there
could
be
modifications
to
the
methodologies
to
account
for
some
of
those
things.
One
example
just
to
give
you
in
another
state:
they
have
a
beginning
of
the
year
assessment
and
an
end-of-the-year
assessment
in
a
certain
grade
and
this
year
because
of
reasons
of
covid,
it
was
a
varying
implementation
of
that
beginning
of
year
assessment.
F
It
depended
on
when
that
school
opened
up
and
it
really
varied
all
the
way
from
september
through
february,
and
because
of
that,
we
took
into
account
this
time
varying
kind
of
instance,
of
the
test.
If
you
will,
by
school
into
some
of
the
methodologies
to
account
for
some
of
that
when
measuring
growth
in
that
state,
so
the
short
answer
is
yes,
we
can
you
know
and
of
course
you
have
to
capture
and
collect
that
data
to
be
able
to
do
so.
A
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
apologize
I'm
trying
to
check
things
off
my
list
here,
so
I'm
not
re-asking
questions
that
have
already
been
asked
I'll
be
bouncing
around.
I
apologize
your
your
test
or
your
formula
is
only
as
good
as
the
data
that's
put
into
it.
So
if
you
take
into
consideration
that
standardized
tests.
F
So,
thanks
representative-
I
I
would
you
know
there
are
three
basic
requirements
of
measuring
growth.
One
of
those
is
that
the
tests
do
kind
of
align
with
at
least
the
curriculum
standards
that
are
being
taught,
and
that
is
not
something
that
we
within
sas
or
tivos
are
able
to
measure
or
do
measure.
That's
something
I
would
say
more
on
the
department
side
that.
K
F
F
We
accommodate
things
like
missing
data
for
certain
students
and
things
like
that.
So
a
lot
of
the
methodologies
are
helping
to
overcome
some
of
those
challenges.
But,
with
your
specific
question
around,
you
know
the
test
whether
or
not
it's
measuring
curricular
objectives.
Again,
I
would
say
that
would
be
something
determined
by
the
state
and
the
department.
F
K
Okay,
so
you've
said:
let's
back
up,
you
said
you
acknowledged
the
mobility
of
students.
You
acknowledge
the
social
economics
of
any
particular
district
or
lea
in
factoring
these,
and
to
what
extent
I
don't
have
we
do,
we
know
the
formula
is
the
formula
public
knowledge
is
the
algorithm
public
knowledge.
F
You
know
we're
kind
of
taking
into
those
taking
into
account
those
characteristics
by
taking
into
account
the
test
scores
themselves,
so
there's
not
necessarily
a
need
to
take
them
into
account
directly
or
they're,
not
adding
additional
information
above
and
beyond.
What's
already
embedded
within
the
testing
data
itself,
those
are
for
things
like
the
student
characteristics.
F
K
Well,
I
mean
there's
effects
that
are
attributed
to
teachers
that
may
be
caused
by
other
factors.
I
mean
these
are
high-stakes
scores.
I
mean
we're
holding
teachers
responsible
for
these,
and
so,
if
we're
just
looking
at
correlation
versus
causation
and
there's
a
lot
of
factors,
I
think
everybody
in
here
agrees
that
may
be
attributed
that.
That
teacher
has
no
control
over
is.
Do
you
think,
that's
fair
to
use
those
scores
for
such
high-risk
purposes,.
F
K
F
G
A
G
You're,
a
teacher
of
record-
and
you
actually
have
claimed
kids
for
for
growth-
it's
35,
but
it's
15.
If
you're
the
and
that's
you
know,
I'm
very
happy,
as
I
said
earlier,
that
k-2
teachers
are
now
going
to
have
their
own
growth
score,
so
they
no
longer
have
to
take
the
growth
score
from
third
fourth
or
fifth
grade
they'll
have
their
own
moving
forward.
Starting
with
this
school
year-
and
I
know
that's
been
a
debate
with
the
evaluation
model
since
it
was
adopted.
G
Is
it
fair
for
non-tested
teachers
to
to
take
that
growth
score?
And
you
know,
I
think
the
teachers
in
schools,
mostly
level
fives,
feel
like
it's
fair
and
if
they're
in
a
school,
that's
traditionally
level
one.
They
don't
feel
as
this
is
fair
because
they
they
don't
control
that
score.
So
I
I
certainly
can
hear
that
from-
and
I
testified
here
just
a
few
years
ago
to
try
to
get
the
k
through
two
to
not
have
to
take
the
fourth
and
fifth
grade
growth
score,
because
I
didn't
think
that
was
fair.
K
Okay,
well,
I'm
sorry
just
two
more
quick
issues.
One
dealing
with
the
literacy
bill
we
passed
and
one
dylan
with
a
factor
does-
and
this
is
a
yes
or
no
does
your
model
take
into
account
start
times
for
high
school
students,
because
our
schools
here
in
high
school
start
at
7
a.m
and
every
test.
Every
scientific
study
says
that
students
in
high
school
age
don't
perform
well
at
seven
a.m.
Does
your
model
take
that
into
account
start
times
of
high
schools.
K
Okay
and
then,
to
the
extent
that
your
measurement
data
is
used
for
our
literacy
bill,
that
was
just
passed
or
you
know
it's
based
on.
You
know
if
we're
gauging
anything
with
road
to
third
graders.
How
fast
can
you
turn
around
the
test?
I
know
we
get
the
t-cap
scores
take
mo.
I
think
we
just
got
the
t-cap
scores
about
a
month
and
a
half
ago,
and
then
you
base
your
data
on
those
scores,
at
least
in
part.
F
every
year,
tennessee
would
send
sas
data
on
like
may
31st
or
may
30th,
and
we
would
produce
all
of
the
excel
files
by
june
15th
and
then
release
the
reporting
by
june
30th
every
year.
But
that
has
not
happened
for
about
five
or
six
years.
We
don't
receive
the
data
anymore
around
the
may
time
frame.
Now
it's
received
later
july
and
some
in
some
years
it's
been
august.
It's
been
very
different
over
the
last
couple
of
years.
G
So
much
better
or
whatever
so
the
official
report
that
that
sent
the
sas
that
they
need.
This
has
been
much
later.
We
we
did
get
did
we
be
in
districts,
we
did
receive
a
kind
of
a
raw
data
file
at
the
end
of
may
to
at
least
identify
the
how
many
questions
each
kid
got
correct,
and
so
we
you
know
it's.
G
It
didn't
have
proficiency
status,
whether
they
were
below
or
approaching,
and
all
that
didn't
have
all
the
details,
but
at
least
had
everybody
who
took
the
test
and
each
subject
how
many
questions
they
were
and
how
many
they
got
correct
prior
to
summer
school
starting.
So
we
at
least
had
some
knowledge
going
in
of
who
or
did
we
have
there?
We
could
at
least
look
at
the
relative
comparisons
and
make
sure
we
had
the
right
kids
going
to
summer
school.
I
think,
is
the
main
thing.
K
F
Yeah,
thanks
representative,
so
so
tennessee
sends
us
data
every
single
year.
We
connect
it
longitudinally
over
time
at
the
student
level.
So
what
that
means?
We
have
data
all
the
way
back
to
1992,
I
believe,
1992
to
obviously
2021.
One
thing
that
we
do
provide
every
year
is
something
called
student
projections,
those
project
out
to
the
future.
F
K
Well,
thank
you.
I
mean
you
know,
there's
a
there's,
obviously,
a
value
to
value-added
models.
I
mean
taking
into
account
all
these
different
things,
or
at
least
trying
to
is
certainly
a
worthwhile
endeavor.
I
do
have
a
lot
of
concerns
about
the
risk
for
teachers
in
schools
that
are
associated
with
the
model
and
the
data
going
into
the
model
itself.
Those
are
just
serious
concerns
about,
and
also
the
correlation
versus
causation
issue.
So
thank
you
for
the
long
leash.
Mr
chairman,
I
appreciate
it.
C
I'll
tell
you
what
I'll
cut
it
I'll
cut
it
to
just
one
point:
I
think
what
is
interesting,
I
think
the
discussion
is
going
to
eventually
or
where
it
needs
to
get
and
where
I
think
we're
kind
of
stepping
towards
now
is
the
application
of
the
growth
in
the
in
the
evaluation
model.
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
the
overarching
elephant
in
the
room
that
we're
going
to
all
have
to
discuss
at
some
point.
I
think
currently
right
now,
administration
observation
is
50.
C
C
Obviously,
I
think
that
the
growth
is
a
valuable
indicator,
but
whether
or
not
we
look
at
you
know
making
sure
that
we
have
some
of
the
testing
that's
going
to
be
in
there,
that
we
can
see
that's
factored
in
or
even
if
it's
you
know,
you
know,
I
think
screeners
is
a
viable
option
of
something
that's
a
little
bit
more
consistent
along
the
way
that
we
can
see.
You
know
how
students
are
doing,
because
some
students
do
better.
C
You
know
a
little
bit
at
a
time
and
not
just
all
in
one
one
test,
and
so,
if
you're
fat
you're
able
to
get
a
kind
of
a
better
swath
of
information.
I
think,
if
you're
doing
a
little
bit
of
all
of
that
and
not
just
putting
all
your
eggs
in
into
possibly
one
basket,
but
anyhow,
I
think
that
I'll
eliminate
my
other
seven
or
eight
points
I
was
going
to
make,
but
I
think
that
that's
a
discussion
that
we
need
to
start
having
at
some
point
in
the
next
few
months.
A
L
L
Representative
parkinson
is
out
of
here,
so
thank
you,
dr
white
and
dr
winstead.
Dr
winstead
is
a
rock
star
and
from
my
neck
of
the
woods
in
east
tennessee-
and
I'm
not
sure
you
know
this,
dr
winstead,
but
there
is
a
position
in
the
county
just
over
from
you
for
a
school
superintendent
that
will
be
coming
up.
So
I
just
wanted
to
make
you
aware
of
that.
Just
in
case
you
didn't
know
so
you
know
this.
L
L
If
she
can't
get
that
student
to
that
level,
then
she's
failed
in
her
mind,
and
so
that's
why.
I
think
that
there's
probably
no
conversation
we're
going
to
have
during
especially
in
the
education
session
of
I
believe,
in
accountability,
and
I
believe
in
measurement
but
measuring
growth
rate
is
important.
I
think
if
we
within
my
district
within
district
13,
I
have
schools
that
are
very
high
performing
schools
and
I
have
schools
that
are
low,
performing
schools
that
are
economically
disadvantaged
and
I,
if
we
could
measure
growth
rate,
do
a
better
job
on
that.
L
L
L
If
we
incentivize
for
growth
rate,
I
think
there's
a
more
there's
a
greater
opportunity
that
we
can
have
better
educators,
even
in
lower
performing
schools,
because
maybe
the
potential
for
growth
rate
is
there,
and
I
guess
I
have
a
lot
in
my
head
that
I
could
go
through,
but
I
guess
the
question
is
so
the
the
growth
rate,
the?
I
guess
the
statistics
are
all
broken
down
to
district
and
are
they
broken
down
to
school
to
that
level
and
then
are
they
broken
down
by
to
teacher
as
well
the
growth
rate?
L
A
A
G
Just
a
couple
of
a
couple
of
slides,
but
one
for
us
before
I
say
that
just
one
of
the
things
that's
come
up
quite
a
bit
is
about
teachers
and
which
kids,
how
they're
impacted
by
certain
kids,
maybe
in
their
class.
So
I
think
it's
important.
You
know
we.
We
go
through
a
process
at
the
end
of
the
year
where
teachers
claim
they
go
through
and
electronically
digitally
they
go
through
a
process
of
claiming
the
kids
that's
going
to
count
towards
their
growth
and
so
in
state
law
in
1992.
G
I
think
it
was
in
there
very
from
the
very
beginning,
students
who
are
not
available
for
instruction
150
out
of
180
days.
Do
not
count,
do
not
count
towards
that
teacher's
growth.
So
when
we
think
about
the
highly
I
mean
student
mobility
is
is
a
huge
huge
issue
and
with
student
achievement,
there's
no
doubt
those
those
highly
mobile
kids.
G
The
relationship
between
that
and
achievement
is
is
definitely
there.
Many
of
those
students
would
not
be
in
that
teacher's
growth.
So
when
the
teacher
logs
into
the
value-added
system,
they
can
actually
see
their
scores,
then
it
lists
the
kids.
Here's
the
kids,
who
are
counted
in
that
calculation
and
they've
claimed
those
kids,
but
not
only
do
they
do
they
indicate
which
kids
were
there
enough
days
to
count,
but
then
they
also
claim
what
percent
of
the
time
they
taught
the
kids.
G
So
if
a
student
is
maybe
being
also
being
served
by
the
esl
teacher-
or
they
were
only
in
that
that
particular
building
that
particular
teacher
half
the
year,
then
they
would
claim
50
percent
of
that
kids
growth,
whether
it
was
good
or
bad
they'd
get
a
credit
for
50
of
it
and
the
other
teacher
would
get
the
other
50.
So
there
is
a
a
process
where
they
go
through
that
and
just
a
a
real
quick
on
a
couple
of
graphs.
G
You
know
these
are
slides
that
I
show
my
teachers
and
we've
worked
with
them
over
the
years,
because
I
do
think
it
kind
of
goes
into
that
achievement
versus
growth.
I
mean,
if
you
just
look
at
focus
on
where
kids
are
the
achievement
piece
where
are
they
and
that
the
achievement
answers
that
you
would
look
at
the
triangle.
That's
slightly
above
the
on
track
line.
G
They
would
be
in
that
on
track
category,
and
you
would
look
at
the
one
below
at
this
blue
square
there
and
say
that
student
is,
is
below
they're
in
the
approaching
category.
So
from
achievement
standpoint,
one's
a
success,
one
passed
the
test,
one
didn't,
but
if
you
factor
in
like
how'd
they
get
there,
you
know
it's
a
growth
is
the
question
of
not
you
know
achievement
is
where
are
they
growth
is?
How
did
they
get
there
that
kid
who's
barely
above
proficient
might
have
always
been
there?
G
G
If
they're
at
the
80th
percentile
they'll
learn
enough
to
stay
at
the
80th
percentile,
you
know,
that's
that's
the
minimum
expectation
and
we
want
to
differentiate
instruction
to
meet
all
kids
low
average
high,
but
that
kid
who's
barely
above
proficient
might
have
been
quite
advanced
at
some
point
and
that
you
know
so,
even
though
they're
still
passing
the
test,
the
trend
doesn't
look
good,
but
certainly
the
progress
has
not
been
there.
They've
not
maintained
that
high
performance
and
that
and
that
kid
who's
barely
below,
might
have
quite
the
opposite.
G
They,
they
may
have
shown
incredible
growth,
and
it's
really
accelerated
that.
So
I
think
the
question
of
what
is
what's
more
important.
I
think
this
to
me
shows
that
both
are
important.
We
got
to
look
at
where
they
are,
but
also
how
they
get
there.
You
know
the
track
analogy
is
another
good
example.
You
know:
we've
we've
got
kids
that
are
all
over.
They
start
the
year
all
over
this
track.
Some
are
way
ahead
of
the
starting
point.
Some
are
at
the
starting
point.
G
Some
are
way
behind
and
we
can't
expect
the
kid
who's
at
the
very
top
corner
over
there.
Who's
way
ahead,
who's
quite
advanced.
If
we
only
expect
them
to
get
to
the
blue
line
to
be
proficient,
then
we're
not
expecting
enough.
We
need
to
expect
that
every
kid
will
get
around
the
track,
at
least
once
for
a
year's
growth,
and
so
they
need
to
get
all
the
way
around
and
back
to
where
they
were,
and
we
need
to
know
that
so
that
we're
keeping
the
95th
percentile
kid
at
the
95th
percentile
or
better
and
we're.
G
G
In
order
to
move
that
and
my
favorite
picture,
I
was
talking
to
chairperson
moody
before
the
meeting
and
we're
both
talking
about
the
joys
of
having
a
three-year-old
grandchild,
which
is
amazing
and
I'm
enjoying
it
immensely,
but
when,
when
kids
are
little
and
we've
any
of
you
that
have
have
your
own
children
or
with
grandkids,
you
know
you
go
to
the
doctor
a
lot
and
they
measure
they're
checking
on
development.
They
usually
measure
the
height
the
weight
and
the
circumference
of
a
child's
head.
G
You
know
if
you
call
this
is
just
a
very
rudimentary
chart
that
I've
made
up,
but
if
you
just
call
a
doctor
out
of
the
blue
and
say
you
know,
doctor
I've
got
a
three
month
old,
who
weighs
14
pounds,
that's
kind
of
like
achievement,
that's
where
they
are
14
pound
three
month
old.
Is
he
okay,
or
is
she
okay?
If
that
doctor's,
you
know
worth
anything.
G
The
question
is
going
to
be
what
was
the
child's
birth
weight
because
it
doesn't
matter
knowing
where
the
kid
is,
if
you
don't
know
where
they
came
from,
I
mean
if
a
14
pound
baby,
as
this
chart
illustrates,
and
the
official
charts
would
show
much
better-
that
kid
could
be
way.
Underweight
could
be
way.
Overweight
could
be
just
about
right.
Knowing
that
a
kid
weighs
14
pounds
at
three
months,
tells
you
nothing
about
the
development
of
that
child.
G
That
tells
you
nothing
about
the
health
of
that
child
same
thing,
knowing
that
a
kid
is
at
the
60th
percentile,
knowing
that
a
kid
is
approaching
or
on
track
is,
does
not
tell
me
enough
about
the
academic
health
of
that
child.
He
could
be
way
underperforming
that
kid
could
have
been
at
the
90th
percentile
if
he
just
went
to
the
average
school
in
the
state
and
was
in
that
class
he's
at
the
60th.
G
I
want
to
know
that
I
mean
we
need
to
know
that
because
I
got
we
got
to
fix
that
or
it
could
be
that
kid's
at
the
60th
percentile
and
if
he
went
to
the
average
school
in
the
state
he'd
been
at
the
30th
or
40th.
We
need
to
know
that
and
we
need
to
reward
that
teacher
and
that
school
for
that,
so
knowing
where
they
are,
is
important
and
absolutely
the
goal
is
that
all
kids
are
above
on
track.
They're,
all
kids
can
read,
all
kids
can
perform
and
do
what
they're
supposed
to
do?
G
There's!
No
doubt
I'm
not
hopeful.
I
hope
I'm
not
saying
anything
to
say
that.
That's
not
our
goal
as
well,
that
every
kid
that
graduates
from
my
school
system
can
read
and
write
and
be
successful
in
life.
That's
the
only
goal,
because
that's
at
the
end
of
the
day
they
walk
off
the
stage.
Nobody
cares
about
their
growth.
They
got
to
perform.
G
They
got
to
do
their
job
and
be
and
be
successful,
but
along
the
way,
as
I'm
trying
to
evaluate
my
programs,
my
teachers,
everything
that
we're
doing,
we
need
to
be
able
to
pick
up
every
little
bit
of
growth
that
we
see
along
the
way
and
the
last
slide
I'll
show
and
I'll
just
flip.
Through
these
I
mean
we
talked
about
achievement
and
growth
and
how
that
looks,
but
on
our
accountability
model.
G
When
we
had
the
accountability
group
work
group-
and
I
served
on
that
many
years
ago-
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
we
we
do-
we
are
all
50
states-
now
have
a
growth
model.
Tvos
is
our
evos
is
used
in
seven
states,
but
all
have
a
growth
model
of
some
sort
and
they
all
have
this
their
own.
You
know
they
look
at
growth
and
that
sort
of
thing,
but
but
they
would
all
operate
about
the
same,
but
our
ability
model
is
one
of
the
few
that
does
factor
in
growth.
G
You
know-
and
so
I
was
one
of
the
ones
on
the
accountability
work
group
that
would
have
at
least
wanted
one
of
the
two
to
be
equal
growth
and
achievement
should
count
the
same
because
there
was
some
push
back
from
on
that,
and
so
the
I
think,
a
compromise.
A
good
compromise
is
that
growth
is
on
our
model
right
now.
The
growth
is
a
little
bit
less
than
achievement
for
k-8
school
achievements.
G
Third,
45
percent
of
the
overall
score
growth
is
35
at
the
school
level
and
if
you
have
a
high
school,
where
you
have
a
graduation
rate
and
some
other
measures,
then
it's
30
and
25.,
and
so
both
are
both
are
important.
But
it
does
show
that
we
are.
We
are
counting
achievement
more
than
growth
in
our
state.
As
far
as
accountability-
and
I
thought
this
was
the
most
powerful
thing
from
that
work
group-
the
state,
the
folks
at
the
state
assessment
at
the
time
ran
this
report.
G
This
is
when
we
were
thinking
about
doing
letter
grades,
and
I
know
that's
still
in
law
and
we're
going
to
do
them
eventually,
if
we
have,
if
the
color
coding
up
here
represents
every
school
in
the
state
based
on
their
economic
disadvantage.
So
the
dark
red
is
the
highest
poverty,
schools
and
then
orange
would
be
the
next
group
of
of
like
25
to
50,
whatever
20
to
40,
and
then
the
the
yellow
and
then
green
and
blue
would
be
those
schools
that
have
below
20
free
reduced
lunch.
G
So
if
you
just
use
achievement,
you
see
that
this
is
the
ranking
achievement.
You
would
have
a
lot
of
most
of
your
red
and
then
your
orange
and
then
your
yellow
and
then
your
green
and
then
you're
blue
there's
some
there's
some
overlapping
with
some
of
the
colors.
But
for
the
most
part
it
follows
that
color
spectrum,
when
you
factor
in
growth
at
the
way
we
do
it
where
it's
achievement
and
growth
when
you
put
both
of
them
together.
G
G
Professional
development
evaluation,
whatever
comes
into
that
teacher
pay
whatever
is
needed
to
to
recruit
and
and
develop
more
good
teachers,
so
we're
not
trying
to
slice
these
and
slice
the
pie
up
and
and
divvy
up
these
best
teachers
where
we
need
them
the
most.
But
I
mean
we
focus
everything
on
this
got
to
reduce
that
variability
and
having
that
growth
data,
a
value
valid,
reliable
growth
score
at
the
school
and
teacher
level
is,
is
very,
very
important
in
our
work
to
try
to
reduce
that
availability.
G
We
need
to
know
who's
who's,
getting
it
done
and
when
which
kids
are?
Are
they
getting
it
done
with?
And
where
are
we
falling
short
and
the
value-added
model?
Tevos
really
helps
us
with
that
information.
We
have
to
we'd.
Look
at
the
achievement
because
one
thing
the
value
added,
doesn't
do
that's
brought
up.
It
doesn't
get
into
the
standards
at
all.
There's
no
curriculum
discussions
and
reports
in
the
in
value
added.
That's
where,
then
you
go
to
achievement
and
you
look
at
the
tcap
reports
and
it
has
your
standards
broken
down.