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Description
House Appropriations Subcommittee- February 7, 2022- House Hearing Room 1
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C
C
C
I
noticed
the
chairman
of
transportation
is
here
chairman
howells
here
we'd
like
to
thank
him
for
coming
always
a
learner
so
appreciate
you
coming
today
just
wanted
to
make
the
members
known
and
those
watching
online.
The
focus
of
the
hearing
today
is
to
better
understand
electric
vehicle
taxation
as
it
now
stands,
and
what
challenges
vehicle
electric
and
hybrid
vehicle
taxation
may
happen
in
the
future.
We
have
three
departments
that
we're
gonna
hear
from
today.
C
Late
last
week,
I
believe
was
on
thursday
each
a
member
received
in
their
email
white
paper
describing
the
hours
of
research
that
chaired
lady
hazelwood
and
my
intern
interim
interns
did
as
it
relates
to
this
research,
regarding
what
other
states
have
done.
The
members
that
information
is
on
your
dashboard
as
well.
C
C
As
representative
shaw
knows,
ford
has
committed
to
build
many
new
electric
vehicles
here
in
the
state
of
tennessee,
so
the
impact
of
electric
vehicles
and
gas
taxation
is
one
that
is
going
to
be
at
our
doorstep
in
the
future,
probably
quicker
than
we
expect,
and
so
for
that
purpose.
The
speakers
asked
us
to
have
a
hearing
on
this
today.
I'm
gonna
ask
the
member
first.
If
t-deck
wants
to
come
on
up
today,
we're
going
to
have
presenting
for
us
miss
shauna
vasquez.
C
D
All
right,
so
thank
you
for
inviting
us
here
today
to
discuss
transportation
electrification
in
tennessee
as
you're
aware.
Tdec
exists
to
enhance
the
quality
of
life
for
tennesseans
and
to
be
stewards
of
our
natural
environment.
One
of
our
visions
for
tennessee,
a
vision
that
is
shared
by
our
colleagues
and
other
state
agencies,
is
for
the
state
to
become
a
leader
in
the
electric
transportation
space.
Our
departmental
leadership
has
stated
that
transportational
transformational
change
is
underway
in
tennessee
and
that
we
are
emerging
as
the
epicenter
of
electric
vehicle
development
and
advanced
manufacturing
in
the
nation.
D
According
to
the
tennessee
department
of
economic
and
community
development,
nearly
12
billion
dollars
in
capital
investment
has
been
accrued
in
the
state
since
2017
in
the
ev
sector
alone.
This
reflects
the
four
major
automotive
manufacturers
that
currently
or
soon
plan
to
produce
evs
and
their
associated
battery
technologies
in
tennessee,
as
well
as
other
vehicle
parts
and
battery
producers
that
have
set
up
shop
across
the
state.
D
It's
our
understanding
that
this
report
is
expected
to
be
finalized
and
released
later
this
year,
so
throughout
2018,
a
core
team
of
stakeholders,
including
state
agencies
such
as
tdec
and
our
counterparts
at
the
department
of
transportation.
Here
today,
electric
utilities,
including
the
tennessee
valley
authority,
local
governments,
universities,
ev
manufacturers,
businesses,
advocacy
groups,
all
worked
together
to
develop
a
shared
vision
for
electric
transportation
in
tennessee.
D
Together
these
stakeholders
comprise
the
consortium
named
drive
electric
tennessee,
whose
goal
is
to
increase
ev
adoption
in
tennessee
from
approximately
17
000
evs.
Today,
keep
in
mind
that
is
all
electric
vehicles
and
plug-in
hybrid
electric
vehicles
to
200
000
vehicles
by
2028
det
conducted
a
statewide
electric
vehicle
charging
infrastructure
needs
assessment
in
late
2019
to
evaluate
the
condition
of
tennessee's
current
ev
charging
infrastructure
and
to
identify
charging
needs
and
potential
geographic
locations
to
support
increased
ev
adoption
in
the
future.
D
Tdec
has
used
the
findings
from
this
needs
assessment
to
design
and
prioritize
several
ev
charging
infrastructure
programs
for
the
state
which
we'll
talk
about
today,
but
before
we
get
into
that,
I
did
want
to
take
a
minute
and
provide
a
very
basic
overview
of
charging
station
ownership
models,
the
first
being
the
most
straightforward,
which
is
where
a
host
site
host,
which
is
the
entity
who
owns
the
property
where
an
electric
vehicle
charging
station
is
placed,
also
owns
and
operates.
The
charging
station
itself
there
and
just
so
we're
all
clear
for
terminology's
sake.
D
A
charging
station
is
also
referred
to
as
electric
vehicle
supply
equipment
or
evse.
So
I
might
be
using
that
throughout
this
presentation,
another
ownership
model
involves
a
partnership
between
a
third
party
and
a
site
host.
So
the
third
party
could
be
an
electric
utility
company,
an
evsc
vendor
or
network
provider,
or
possibly
even
a
local
government
who
would
own
and
operate
the
evsc
but
place
it
within
a
site
host
property
with
the
site.
Host's
permission.
D
With
the
first
round
of
funding
released
for
application
late
last
year,
tdec
and
tva
will
be
supplementing
existing
public
ev
fast
charging
infrastructure
to
create
what
we
call
test.
50..
That
means
non-proprietary
fast
chargers
are
placed
no
less
than
50
miles
apart
along
a
given
corridor
or
route.
D
This
so-called
fast
charge,
tennessee
network
will
add
approximately
50
new
charging
locations
along
prioritized
infrastructure
gaps,
tripling
tennessee's
existing
fast
charging
network.
The
estimated
total
project
cost
is
approximately
20
million
dollars
split
between
tdec
tva
other
potential
program
partners
like
the
department
of
transportation
and
program
participant
cost,
share
eligible
applicants
for
the
first
round.
D
Tva
served
local
power
companies
and
other
local
utilities
that
distribute
electricity
in
tennessee,
whose
service
territory
is
along
the
priorities.
Corridor
gaps
that
you
can
see
here
in
total,
we've
received
141
site
proposals,
that's
53
primary
sites
that
are
considered
the
most
attractive
and
88
alternate
options
in
case,
for
whatever
reason
the
primary
options
don't
work
out
and
we
received
those
proposals
from
36
local
power
companies
across
the
state.
We
plan
to
make
announcements
later
this
spring
on
the
local
power
companies
and
proposed
sites
selected
for
funding
under
the
fast
charge.
D
Tn
network
later
rounds
of
this
funding
may
expand
applicant
eligibility
to
include
local
government
entities,
private
companies
and
nonprofits.
The
network
will
expand
accessibility
of
critical
light
duty,
ev
charging
for
all
tennesseans
and
regional
travelers.
These
fast
chargers
will
be
available
in
both
high
density
markets
in
urban
areas
and
underserved
markets
in
rural
or
economically
distressed
areas
of
our
state
on
screen
is
actually
a
snapshot
of
the
fast
charge
corridor.
Completeness
map,
which
was
designed
by
tdec
and
tva,
to
help
visualize
prioritize
gaps
for
the
installation
of
qualifying
ev
fast
charging
infrastructure.
D
Also
in
2021
tdec
announced
a
partnership
with
ev
automaker
and
automotive
technology
company
rivien
to
install
rivian
waypoint
level
2
charging
stations
at
tennessee
state
parks.
The
goal
is
to
have
charging
stations
available
at
all
56
state
parks
system-wide,
depending
on
the
availability
of
electricity
and
planned
future
park
upgrades
in
addition
to
overseeing
design
and
installation.
Rivien
will
provide
the
chargers
as
well
as
any
necessary
utility
upgrades
associated
with
the
charger
installation
at
no
cost
to
the
state
or
for
10
years.
D
The
chargers
can
provide
up
to
11.5
kilowatts
of
power,
which
enables
uv
drivers
to
top
up
on
miles
while
enjoying
a
day
trip
or
overnight.
Camp
ev
charging
at
tennessee
state
parks
will
initially
be
free.
Any
potential
future
cost
to
drivers
may
be
dependent
on
system-wide
utilization
of
the
network
to
recover
electricity
costs.
D
D
You
charge
very
slowly
around
two
to
five
miles,
an
electric
range
added
per
hour,
and
because
of
that,
it's
not
anything
that
the
state
at
this
time
is
planning
to
invest
in,
but
I
just
wanted
to
make
you
aware
that
that
type
of
infrastructure
is
out
there
level.
Two
charging,
on
the
other
hand,
is
what
most
ev
drivers
use
for
their
daily
needs,
and
you
can
see
in
the
two
tables
on
the
left
ranges
of
the
types
of
costs
you
can
expect
to
see
for
a
level
2
charging
station
install.
D
This
is
around
240
volts
of
power.
You
gain
20
to
30
miles
an
electric
range
per
hour.
Any
ev
can
use
level
2
charging
stations
and
they're
common
at
the
home
workplace,
real
retail
sites,
other
types
of
public
charging,
where
you're
expected
to
be
there
for
a
few
hours
at
a
time
in
the
tables
that
you're
seeing
there
are
different
costs
associated
with
networked
and
non-networked
level
2
chargers.
D
D
This
is
a
commercial
level
of
electric
dispensing
and
you
usually
find
it
along
a
corridor
like
in
the
fast
charge,
tn
network
we
were
discussing
earlier
and
allowing
for
long
distance
travel
or
also
within
communities
with
high
ev
populations.
Nashville
being
one
of
them.
We
have
a
few
of
these
used
for
mostly
community
purposes.
D
Tdec
and
tva
are
requiring
fast
charging
sites
funded
under
the
fast
charge,
tn
network
program
to
have
at
least
120
kilowatts
and
charging
capacity
for
a
single
vehicle
and
for
those
sites
to
be
non-proprietary
such
that
all
ebs
will
be
able
to
use
them,
and
please
do
keep
in
mind
the
numbers
here.
It's
it's.
A
big
long
range,
like
I
said
just
due
to
a
lot
of
costs
associated
with
site
readiness
being
pretty
variable.
D
The
cost
you're
seeing
here
is
for
a
fast
charge,
tn
site,
meaning
there's
at
least
two
stations
at
one
site.
So
it's
not
price
per
per
station.
That's
priced
per
site
overall,
and
the
reason
that
we
require
more
than
one
station
the
site
is
to
future
proof
the
system
and
to
make
sure
that
you
know
there's
redundancy
you're
not
showing
up
to
an
ev,
fast
charging
site
and
not
able
to
use
it,
because
somebody
else
is
in
line
ahead
of
you
and
before
we
close
out
today.
D
Tennesseans
do
pay
between
10
to
12
per
kilowatt
hour
of
electricity,
and
unlike
gasoline
and
diesel
fuel
your
kilowatt
hour,
prices
are
relatively
stable
over
time,
which
makes
it
pretty
easy
to
be
able
to
estimate
the
costs
of
fueling
to
charge
from
empty
an
electric
vehicle
might
consume
between
30
to
200
kilowatt
hours.
I
know
that
that's
particularly
an
all-electric
vehicle
versus
a
plug-in
hybrid
cost
to
charge
a
vehicle
from
empties
around
three
dollars
to
twenty
four
dollars.
D
It's
very
rare,
though,
to
recharge
a
vehicle
from
empty
just
because
usually
to
ninety
percent
of
charging
occurs
at
home,
so
you
just
pull
in
plug
in
and
then
the
next
morning
or
later
that
evening
you
have
a
full
vehicle,
an
average
electric
vehicle
like
the
nissan
leaf,
which
is
made
in
smyrna
tennessee,
has
a
fuel
efficiency
of
around
30
kilowatt
hours
per
100
miles,
and
one
gallon
of
gasoline
is
considered
equivalent
to
33.7
kilowatt
hours.
Therefore,
an
average
ev
can
easily
achieve
a
fuel
efficiency
rating
above
100
miles
per
gallon,
equivalent.
D
I'll
say
once
again
thank
you
for
inviting
tdec
here
today
to
provide
information
on
evs
in
tennessee,
following
the
successful
launch
of
our
fast
charge.
Tn
network
grant
program,
as
well
as
the
continued
outreach
and
engagement
provided
by
our
partners
at
drive,
electric
tennessee
and
the
and
our
counterparts
at
other
state
agencies.
The
current
level
of
interest
among
communities
and
potential
site
hosts
in
adopting
ev
charging
infrastructure
is
at
an
all-time
high.
D
We
have
seen
continued
support
and
interest
from
the
tennessee
clean
excuse
me:
tennessee
fuel
and
convenience
store
association,
tennessee's,
electric
utility
companies,
local
governments,
from
both
urban
and
rural
areas,
other
private
businesses
and
more
in
the
continued
build
out
of
eb
charging
infrastructure
across
the
state.
I'm
happy
now
to
take
any
questions.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
C
Thank
you,
miss
vasquez,
the
members.
We
have
two
other
folks
here
and
in
order
to
save
time,
I
think
probably
the
best
thing
for
us
to
do
is
to
go
through
all
the
presentations
that
will
hold
the
questions
to
the
very
end.
Awesome
that
my
apologies
is
that's
not
what
you
were
expecting
next
on
the
list.
We
have
department
of
revenue.
I
think
commissioner
giorgano
and
staff
are
coming.
E
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
members
of
the
committee
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
here
with
you
today.
Thank
you
for
the
invitation.
I'm
david
gerignon,
commissioner
of
revenue
with
me
at
the
table,
is
justin
moorhead,
our
chief
of
staff
and
in
the
audience
we
have
a
number
of
members
of
our
our
staff
be
available
later
for
questions,
including
leadership
from
our
vehicle
services
division.
E
On
the
first
slide,
you
can
see
the
for
registration
fees,
the
for
fr21,
the
total
registration
fee
revenue
was
around
359
million
dollars.
That
includes
everything,
that's
passenger
motor
vehicles,
freight
motor
vehicles,
trailers
and,
and
a
number
of
other
things
within
that
total
is
made
up
of
registration
fees
from
combustion.
Engine
passenger
motor
vehicles
are
26.50
per
year,
as
you
know,
there's
an
additional
100
for
a
registration
fee
for
electric
vehicles
for
a
total
of
126.50
that
was
included
as
part
of
the
improve
act
in
2017.
E
E
E
Well
gone
up
from
between
2017
and
2019
from
the
improve
act.
Gasoline
tax
since
june
1
of
2019
is
26
cents
per
gallon,
and
diesel
tax
is
27
cents
per
gallon.
There
is
a
special
petroleum
tax
on
all
patrolling
products
of
one
cent
per
gallon
at
an
environmental
insurance
fee
of
0.4
cents
per
gallon.
On
top
of
the
standard
rates.
E
E
E
E
C
E
C
Next
up
on
our
list
today,
we
do
have
our
new
interim
commissioner,
mr
joe
galvato
preston,
elliott,
deputy
commissioner
and
I
saw
paul
diggs
in
the
back
he's
there
to
set
anybody
straight
if
they
don't
see
so
anyways.
Thank
you,
gentlemen
for
coming.
If
you
will
just
introduce
yourselves,
thank
you.
A
A
We
concur
with
the
numbers
that
revenue
just
put
up
about
6400
vehicles
at
the
end
of
20,
9
100
at
the
end
of
fiscal
21
and
then
about
12
000
vehicles
today,
just
want
to
put
that
in
perspective
that
represents
about
two
tenths
of
one
percent
of
the
entire
tennessee
fleet.
So
it's
very
small
at
this
point
but,
as
we
said
in
the
governor's
hearing,
we'd
be
silly
to
think
it's
not
going
to
expand.
A
We
looked
at
something
from
the
university
of
tennessee.
We
found
this
very
interesting,
so
tennessee's
electric
vehicles,
as
a
proportion
of
total
vehicles,
electric
in
the
united
states,
were
less
than
one
percent.
The
vast
majority
about
60
percent
come
out
of
texas,
florida,
california
and
the
state
of
washington.
A
So
we're
far
behind
ut
also
did
a
study
back
in
january
of
2020
looking
at
the
impact
on
the
revenue
side,
and
it
wasn't
going
to
be
until
about
2025
2026
that
we'd
see
any
what
we
would
call
a
significant
impact
somewhere
around
40
million
dollars
chairman
in
your
district.
That
would
be
2.3
miles
on
state
road
136,
so
just
to
put
that
in
perspective
right
now.
A
So
how
are
states
trying
to
address
a
lot
of
what
the
state
of
tennessee
did
they're
looking
at
a
specific
fee
for
the
electric
vehicles
for
it
for
a
vehicle
registration
fee?
Others
are
looking
at
pilot
projects
for
vehicle
miles
travel
trying
to
charge
based
on
that.
But
again
those
are
still
pilots.
At
this
point,
I
think,
with
that
I
will
turn
it
back
to
over
to
preston
and
go
from
there.
F
F
Our
role
in
this
space
has
largely
to
do
with
some
of
the
federal
funds
that
we
have
available
and
the
designation
of
certain
routes
so
that
they
can
be
eligible
for
federal
funds.
We
also
are
involved,
as
it
relates
to
our
metropolitan
planning
organizations
and
so
forth,
as
they
do
planning
across
the
state
as
well.
So
in
2016
we
started
the
process
of
identifying
planning
and
designating
corridors
to
meet
the
national
designation
of
an
alternative
fuel
corridor.
Our
first
corridor
was
identified
in
2016
was
the
I-40
corridor.
F
F
F
Once
we
have
those,
then
they
can
get
to
a
status
of
called
corridor
ready,
so
we're
working
towards
that
effort
in
the
infrastructure
bill.
The
iija
there's
88
million
dollars
that
are
available
for
federal
funds,
for
the
state
of
tennessee
for
ev
charging
and
then
there's
an
additional
discretionary
program
that
allows
for
some
of
the
other
fuel
types
that
I've
mentioned
as
as
you've
heard
earlier.
F
This
has
been
a
pretty
collaborative
effort
and,
as
commissioner
caballo
has
mentioned,
numerous
states
have
looked
at
user
fee
options,
everything
from
the
the
electric
fee
that
we
have
on
tags
to
fees
and
so
forth
that
relate
to
hybrid
vehicles,
not
just
electric
and
as
well
as,
and
then
the
infrastructure
bill
also
includes
a
national
initiative.
Looking
at
user
user-based
fee
study
and
that
is
to
take
place
at
a
national
level.
C
Gentlemen,
if
you
want
to
stay
there,
you
can
commissioner
jared
gaino
going
to
come
up
and
grab
a
seat
too
and
miss
vasquez.
If
you
want
to
come
up,
I
think
the
members
have
some
questions,
but
while
they're
coming,
I
thought
I
would
ask
you
a
question
as
it
related
to
the
fast
charging
network.
Currently,
I
think
the
federal
funds
the
tdot
received
in
the
last
infrastructure
bill,
I
think,
was
88
million
dollars
for
a
fast
charging
network.
F
Presidente
chief
of
environment
planning
tdot
so
that
those
funds
and
the
infrastructure
bill,
because
it's
a
continuing
resolution
at
this
moment,
so
new
programs
that
are
identified
in
the
infrastructure
bill
are
not
available
for
us
to
begin
to
expend.
So
there
are
several
programs
that
have
not
been
yet
put
into
the
system,
and
that
would
be
one
of
them
so
other.
C
F
So
so
that
in
the
last
two
months
they
have
done
two
three:
what
are
called
requests
for
information
and
two
of
which
pertain
to
electric
charging?
One
has
to
do
with
a
provision
that
has
been
the
largest
holdback
for
all
states,
utilizing
federal
transportation,
funds
for
ev
investments
and
that's
the
buy
america
provisions.
F
No
state
can
meet
that
standard
because
currently
there
are
no
charging
devices
that
meet
the
buy
america
provision
requirements.
So
that
was
the
first
request
for
information.
The
second
was
on
the
the
88
million
dollars
in
the
discretionary
program,
the
department,
the
usdot,
also
put
out
a
request
for
information
to
other
types
of
questions
that
relate
to
everything
from
buy
america,
to
funding
mechanisms
to
use
of
right-of-way.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
appreciate
that,
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
We
appreciate
your
testimony.
My
question
is
regarding
the
improve
act
and
I
believe
there
were
900
transportation
projects
that
were
paid
from
this
from
these
funds,
and
I've
got
three
questions
as
it
relates
to
this.
How
confident
is
tdot
and
the
completion
of
these
900
transportation
projects
that
were
under
the
improve
act,
and
then
how
has
inflation
impacted
this
goal
and
the
transportation
funding
in
general
and
then,
finally,
considering
inflation
is
likely
to
continue
to
pose
funding
challenges
in
the
future?
G
A
So
what
our
calculation
shows
is
that,
from
10
to
15
years,
we're
probably
looking
at
20
to
25
years
now.
That
being
said,
with
the
iija
being
passed,
that's
going
to
provide
another
200
million
dollars
a
year
roughly
in
core
programs,
the
nh
programs
and
the
sdbg
programs
that,
along
with
the
money
that
the
governor
has
put
forth
here,
should
allow
us
to
address
more
of
our
improve
act
projects
quicker.
A
So
I,
sir,
I
can't
tell
you
specifically,
but
I
think
that
20
to
25
year
time
frame
will
gravitate
more
toward
20
years
and
that's
what
our
hope
is
at
this
point
as
far
as
electric
vehicles,
there
really
is.
No
significant
impact
to
my
revenue
today
but,
as
I
said
in
fiscal
25,
the
university
of
tennessee
thinks
it
will
be
somewhere
around
40
million,
which
is
impactful.
It's
it's
not
going
to
blow
us
out
of
the
water,
but
it
will
get
progressively
worse
from
there.
I
hope
that
answered
your
question.
A
H
H
I
guess
again
it's
a
question
of
when
not
if
this
is
going
to
really
begin
to
to
impact,
particularly
tdot
and
road
funding.
So
you
just
spoke
to
this,
but
if
I
can
get
a
better
idea,
I've
seen
some
numbers
from
various
sources
about
the
projections
we're
agreed
on
how
many
of
these
hybrid
and
electric
vehicles
we
have
now
that's
good,
but
there
seems
to
be
some
discrepancy
in
in
projections.
H
H
H
Okay,
thank
you,
and
I
guess
maybe
one
of
the
holes
that
we
didn't
plug
when
we
were
looking
at
the
improve
act.
We
let
our
hybrid
drivers
kind
of
get
a
pass
as
they
are
paying
the
same.
As
you
know,
gas
vehicles,
but
they
have
the
electric
components
so
or
maybe
this
is
a
a
question
for
our
revenue
folks,
but
have
we
looked
at
what
the
impact
would
be
on
if
we
were
to
do
some
kind
of
hybrid
charge
for
those
vehicles?
H
You
know
like
we
charge
a
hundred
dollars
for
a
an
ev
if
we
charge
25
or
50
or
something
additional
for
a
hybrid,
do
we
have
any
kind
of
numbers
and
are
are
hybrids
here
to
stay?
Are
they
something
that
you
know
as
we
move
to
these
alternative
fuels?
Do
you
see
those
just
kind
of
disappearing
from
the
scene.
E
Thank
you,
chair
lady
hazelwood,
david
dre
game
with
revenue.
I
don't.
I
don't
know
that
revenue
is
probably
the
best
department
to
forecast
future
on
how
many
hybrids
they'll
they'll,
be.
Probably
one
of
these
other
agencies
could
do
a
better
job
of
that,
but
we
do
count
about
87
000,
hybrid
vehicles.
D
Sure
so
we
know
that
hybridization
of
vehicles,
particularly
in
the
medium
and
large
vehicle
segments,
might
still
continue
to
occur
just
because
the
electric
sectors
tend
to
at
least
at
this
point
focus
on
smaller
vehicles
in
terms
of
future
outlooks.
On
that
we
haven't
performed
any
official
studies,
but
it
is
our
expectation
that
electrification
specifically
will
become
a
larger
and
larger
part
of
the
light
duty,
vehicle
segment
and
hybridization
being
kind
of
a
middle
ground
between
that
and
a
pure
gasoline
or
diesel
vehicle.
D
D
So
we
are
seeing
electrification
in
those
other
market
segments,
but
it's
certainly
not
going
to
grow
as
quickly
as
it
does
in
the
light
duty
segment
and
I
think
for
trucking
and
freight
in
particular,
it
might
be
a
longer
hold
out
until
electric
becomes
as
highly
penetrated
as
the
other
markets.
We
might
see
more
in
terms
of
compressed
natural
gas
growth
in
certain
areas,
particularly
waste
hauling,
which
is
already
a
very
popular
fuel
type
for
that
in
tennessee.
H
C
Thank
you,
chair,
lady.
Just
as
a
follow-up
to
you
referenced
the
ut
study,
our
staff
did
some
research
as
it
relates
to
the
ut
study.
I
guess
the
question
about
the
number
of
vehicle
drivers
they
they
had
did
they
include
hybrid
or
in
that
study,
do
you
know
or
does
it
do
any
of
you
know
and
if,
as
it
relates
to
electric
vehicles,
did
they
take
into
consideration
the
four
oem
manufacturers
who
are
are
made
billions?
A
C
Okay
and
final
final,
not
final
question
but
question
for
me
as
a
follow-up
commissioner,
jared
gaino
that
the
you
were
here
when
we
did
pass
the
improve
act.
I
guess
the
question
was
there
ever
any
discussion
about
of
a
different
fee
for
hybrids?
The
only
reason
I
asked
that
is
you
know
there
are
a
vast
majority
of
the
of
the
vehicles
that
we
now
see
that
are
impacting
the
roads.
Was
there
ever
considered?
I
don't
remember
one
I
was
here.
E
E
B
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
good
afternoon.
Really
just
more
of
a
curiosity
question
is
how
so,
how
do
we,
and
if
you
guys,
have
covered
this?
Your
presentation,
please
forgive
me:
how
do
we
account
for
out-of-state
electric
vehicle
drivers,
two
three
four
five
years
from
now
on
our
planning,
because
we
are
such
a
destination
state.
I
mean
during
the
pandemic,
one
of
the
five
most
visited
states
only
non-beach
state.
So
we
have
such
significant
regional
travel
here
for
vacation.
So
how
do
we
in
terms
of
our
revenue
for
gas
tax
diesel
projections?
G
How
do
we
project?
How
do
we
account
for
that
in
the
years
ahead?
If
we're
going
to
have
this
significant,
I
guess
in
some
states
it's
it's
well
beyond
what
ours
is.
How
do
we
account
for
the
significant
increase
in
electric
vehicles
as
they
travel
our
state
and
then
they're
not
paying
into
the
gas
tax
or
diesel
tax.
E
E
A
B
If,
if
more
and
more
states
begin
to
adopt
a
electric
vehicle
like
registration
fees
and
those
were
applied
to
those
vehicles
as
well,
I
believe
we
would
be
able
to
capture
some
of
those
as
part
of
like
the
multi-state
agreement,
the
international
registration
plan.
But
I
don't
know
if
we've
fully-
I
don't
know
if
we've
you
know
fully
explored
that
yet
so
there
might
be
something
that's
a
little
bit
more
built
in
for
those
types
of
vehicles,
that's
not
for
passenger,
but
we
can
definitely
look
at
that.
G
Chairman
zachary
quick,
followed,
thank
you.
So
do
you
know
of
any
other
states
that
have
taken
any
proactive
steps
that
have
a
larger,
maybe
influx
in
the
northeast
or
wherever
the
largest
dense,
wherever
the
most
densely
populated
area
of
electric
vehicles
are?
Do
you
know
of
any
other
states
that
have
taken
steps
to
address
out
of
state
electric
vehicle
drivers
or
discussions
or
think
tanks?
I'm
just
I
mean
because
again
we're
in
2022
and
we're
talking
about
2025
and
and
government
moves
just
a
little
bit
slower
than
the
private
sector,
and
that's
not
criticism.
G
It's
just
the
reality
so
that
those
three
four
years
will
be
here
before
we
know
it,
and
I
mean
I
feel,
like
those
discussions,
are
paramount
for
tennesseans
and
the
quality
of
our
road.
So
I'm
just
curious
if
you've
seen
any
of
that.
If
we
know
of
any
states
that
have
whether
again,
whether
it's
california
that
we
don't
agree
with
on
anything
just
if
they've
done
any
over
florida
or
anybody
that
have
taken
those
steps.
F
Well,
I
was
going
to
say
that
there
are
states
that
are
looking
at
user-based
fees,
but
I
don't
know
about
the
out-of-state
travel.
Oregon
is
an
example
of
a
location,
a
state
that
has
a
user-based
fees
based
on
vehicle
miles
traveled.
I
think
the
national
initiative,
this
part
of
the
infrastructure
bill,
is
to
address
those
questions,
because
you
one
state
can't
achieve
it
having
a
user-based
fee,
if
you
can
do,
you
know,
go
from
one
state
to
the
next,
it's
kind
of
a
creates
inequities.
So
that's
what
the
national
initiative
is
in
the
infrastructure
bill.
C
As
a
follow-up
constantine,
my
intern
and
and
chair
lady
hazelwood,
sherry
did
some
research
regarding
this.
The
most
people
don't
the
only
way
really
to
capture
out-of-state
fees
is
through
some
kind
of
kw
charge
as
it
relates
to
utilities.
That's
really
the
only
way
to
do
it,
which
is
you
know
when
we're
talking
about
a
fast
charge
network
that
you
know
getting
that
data
off
of
a
smart
meter
or
meter
is
about
the
only
way
you
can
do
it
any
other
way.
C
C
So
now
that
we've
gotten
rid
of
that,
it's
really
the
only
only
place
unless
you
were
to
do
something
in
the
clerk's
office
where
people
had
to
do
odometer
readings-
and
I
know
the
clerks
would-
would
love
that
additional
responsibility,
but
but
I
think
those
are
the
only
areas
which
our
staff
researched,
that
that
they
could
do
that.
So
I
think
some
kind
of
utility
charge
may
be
the
only
only
way
to
go
forward
there.
Chairman
hicks.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thank
you
all
again
for
being
here.
Most
of
our
discussion
so
far
has
been
kind
of
looking
ahead,
but
I
want
to
back
up
for
just
a
second
and
talk
about,
of
course,
over
the
past
several
years,
of
course,
our
newer
vehicles
they're
much
more
fuel
efficient.
So
I
guess
what
has
that
done
because,
of
course
we're
getting
more
miles
to
the
gallon
now.
So
what
does
that?
Look
like
right
now
as
far
as
tax
collections
as
far
as
gas
tax
collections.
E
Yeah,
thank
you
chairman
hicks.
I
mean,
I
think
it
means
relatively
flat
growth.
You
know,
and
I
think
it
has.
If
you
look
at
that
line,
chart
it's
relatively
flat
and
then
it
just
basically
shifts
up
with
the
rate
increases.
Then
it's
going
to
become
relatively
flat.
Again,
of
course,
you
know
we
have
increases
in
population
more
drivers,
but
that's
offset
by
more
fuel
efficiency,
and
I
think
that's
what
we've
seen
in
the
past
and
I
think
that's
what
we'll.
A
No,
we,
we
would
also
agree
that
it
will
start
to
flat
down
at
this
point.
So
what
we
got
in
fiscal
20,
20
versus
21
was
essentially
flat.
It's
going
to
go
up
a
little
bit
in
fiscal
22
right
now,
but
it's
going
to
flatten
out
just
so.
Everyone
is
aware,
so
the
the
analysis
we
did.
An
average
car
gets
about
13
500
miles
per
year.
A
The
average
miles
per
gallon
is
about
21.,
so
that
would
correlate
on
the
state
side
and
the
federal
side
to
the
300
a
year
that
you
keep
hearing
us
talk
about.
I
myself
actually
drive
a
gas
powered
hybrid,
my
average
miles
per
gallon
somewhere
around
38.,
so
roughly
I'm
probably
paying
only
about
150
dollars
per
year.
So
again
it's
not
they're
not
prevalent
throughout
the
state.
At
this
point
again,
total
purely
electric,
with
the
with
the
hybrids,
is
only
about
1.3.
B
A
B
B
What
will
there
be
a
lot
of
difference
in
the
weight
of
these
vehicles
compared
to
diesel
and
gas
burners,
and
I
asked
that
question
because
I
want
to.
I
wonder
if
any
considerations
been
given
to
how
this
is
going
to
affect
road
maintenance
and
it
should
affect
it
in
a
positive
way.
Can
somebody
talk
about
that.
D
Familiar
with
show
that
it's
not
very
consequential
at
this
point,
particularly
because
a
lot
of
road
wear
is
more
heated
to
the
freight
traffic
and
those
larger
larger
vehicles.
But
the
the
curbside
weight
of
an
electric
vehicle
tends
to
be
slightly
heavier
than
a
miscellaneous
diesel
of
a
comparable
size.
F
That
that
is
also
one
of
the
reasons
that
you
see
less
movement
on,
like
let's
say,
semi
trucks
because
of
electric
the
weight
is
a
barrier
and
they're
looking
to
other
fuel
sources.
Whether
we're
talking
about
excuse
me
compressed
natural
gas
ups
is
probably
a
great
example
of
where
you
see
an
alternative
fuel
other
than
electric.
For
that
exact
reason
because
of
the
weight.
B
B
A
I
think
from
the
engineering
perspective
and
paul's
here
if
he
wanted
to
come
up
in
alpine,
but
the
damage
to
the
roads
is
the
are
the
guys
over
80
000
pounds,
so
the
overweight
over
dimensional,
that's
where
the
wear
and
tear
on
the
roads
comes
basic
cars
and
trucks?
Really
don't
don't
impact
the
roads
that
much.
C
Thank
you
I
I
guess
the
only
question
is,
if
we
have
to
to
the
representatives
question.
If
we
do
have
tractor
trailers
that
are
fitted
with
electric
v
or
with
batteries
it's
obviously
our
roads
are
designed
for
a
capacity
based
upon
weight
and,
if
they're
exponentially
heavier
than
what
a
traditional
tractor
trailer
would
be.
Would
that
cause
us
to
have
to
redesign
our
roads
for
a
heavier
weight
based
upon
a
load
or
will
they
just
have
to
reduce
the
weight
of
the
load?
I
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
I
guess
representative
shaw
your
question
about
the
the
the
weights.
So
if,
if
a
current
state
and
federal
law
speaks
to
the
axle
weight
of
vehicles,
so
regardless
of
the
weight
of
a
vehicle
is
in
the
battery
or
in
its
freight
under
current
law,
it's
based
on
that
axle
weight.
I
C
Thank
you,
commissioner.
I
I
don't
have
anyone
on
the
list,
but
I
have
two
more
questions
and
then
we'll
land
the
plane.
Commissioner
jared
gaino,
you
you
spoke
earlier-
and
you
showed
showed
me
this
graph
that
showed
the
revenue
collections
last
couple
years
because
of
covid
a
reduction
then
returning
to
flat.
C
If
we
see,
if
we
see
the
concurrent
trend,
do
you
project
it's
going
to
be
flat
for
the
next
several
years
or
or
do
you
think
that
the
onset
of
all
these
vehicles
in
2025
is
going
to
cause
a
steep
reduction?
I
guess
my
concern.
Is
it's
really
hard
to
change
trajectory
once
you're
without
a
parachute,
and
so
I
guess
the
question
is
the
purpose
of
this
hearing
really
is
to
try
to
find
a
mechanism
or
a
way
by
which
to
replace
funding
that
we're
anticipating
losing,
and
so
my
thought
was.
E
E
We
have
projected
growth
over
the
just
for
the
next
two
years.
I
mean
not
a
long
term
but
a
shorter
term.
Look.
These
are
just
internal
projections
that
drove
our
presentation
to
the
funding
board.
Okay,
that's
that's
all
these
are,
but
for
gasoline
tax
for
fy22
over
fy21
is
a
five
percent
increase
which
is
pretty
healthy,
but
that's
because
fy21
was
affected.
You
know
by
coving
and
then
looking
out
to
fy23
a
one
percent
year-over-year
increase
for
for
diesel
tax.
E
C
D
Sure
it's
going
to
be
a
little
bit
of
speculation
on
my
part,
but
just
to
make
sure
that
we're
clear
about
the
different
technologies
available.
We
have
the
all-electric
evs,
which
is
of
course,
the
types
of
vehicles
that
are
subject
to
the
registration
fee.
Right
now
we
have
plug-in
hybrids
which
do
have
on-board
batteries,
so
they
can
use
those
for
a
portion
of
a
trip
to
cover
as
electric
so
they
can
plug
in,
but
they
do
also
have
gasoline
backups,
so
you
could
have
both
of
them
operating
at
the
same
time.
D
Just
on
gas.
You
have
a
flexibility
there
and
then
we
have
standard
hybrid
vehicles,
the
most
popular
one,
being
the
toyota
prius,
which
runs
solely
on
gasoline.
You
can't
plug
it
in,
but
there's
obviously
an
onboard
battery
that
can
take
over
regenerative,
braking
all
sorts
of
different
ways
to
recapture
energy
and
and
use
it
to
make
your
drive
more
efficient,
plug
in
hybrids
that
one
in
the
middle.
D
We
see
that
technology
not
growing
very
much
in
the
future.
A
lot
of
the
manufacturers
that
were
investing
in
that
particularly
gm,
which
had
the
most
popular
plug-in
hybrid
electric
vehicle,
the
chevy
volt
stopped
manufacturing
that
vehicle
because
they
were
more
invested
in
going
all
electric.
They
kind
of
used
the
plug-in
hybrid
option
as
a
proving
ground
for
battery
technologies
in
general,
for
the
light
duty
segment
plug-in
hybrids
in
general.
They
are
more
prolific
in
terms
of
the
number
of
manufacturers
that
produce
them,
but
they
are
not
very
prolific
in
terms
of
actual
sales.