►
Description
House Health Subcommittee - February 23, 2021 - House Hearing Room 2
A
About
all
here,
say
hello
and
welcome
to
everybody
in
the
audience
and
out
in
the
gallery.
This
is
the
premier,
I
guess
show
for
the
house
health
subcommittee.
I
appreciate
all
of
you
being
here
today.
We
will
gavel
ourselves
in
and
and
move
forward.
Does
anybody
have
any
personal
orders?
A
If
none?
I
have
a
personal
order,
I'd
like
to
say
a
few
words
to
our
committee.
Here
I've
been
involved
in
lots
of
committees
since
I've
been
up
here.
This
is,
it
always
becomes
like
a
family
we're
going
to
see
a
lot
of
each
other
in
the
next
two
years.
So
you
can
turn
your.
You
can
turn
your
resignations
in
quickly,
but
we
we
we'll
have
lots
of
business.
A
I
think
we've
got
about
70
or
or
70
plus
bills
that
have
been
assigned
to
this
committee
and-
and
we
appreciate
all
of
you
being
here-
we're
trying
to
maintain
a
quorum
at
all
times.
Let
us
know
if
you're
not
going
to
be
here
going
to
be
gone,
and
so,
with
the
entrance
of
our
speaker
I
will
I
will
take
the
distinct
honor
of
introducing
each
one
of
you
and
you're
you're.
Welcome
to
add
any
information
you'd
like
to
add
I'd
like
to
begin
with
clark
boyd.
A
and
that's
part
of
that's
canon
and
part
of
dekalb
in
wilson,
county
we've
had
him
for
for
two
of
our
general
assemblies,
the
110th
and
11th
he
comes
to
us
from
the
insurance
industry
has
two
childs
two
children.
A
A
B
A
A
A
He
has
three
children
graduated
from
mtsu
masters
at
david
lipscomb
he's
been
on
many
environmental
councils
boards
and
charities,
consumer
and
human
resource
committee.
A
Local
committee
he's
chaired
the
davidson
city
delegation
and
I'm
told
that
from
his
staff
that
he
is
a
a
dedicated
patron
of
jiu
jitsu,
and
so
I
thought
at
the
time
that
it
was
some
sort
of
a
defamation
slur
when
they
told
me
that,
but
but
then
I
I
found
out
it's
a
martial
arts
program
and
I
think
he
is
the
one
of
the
original
members
of
cobra
kai
in
nashville.
A
We
welcome
sir
yeah.
We
have
mark
hall
district
24
part
of
bradley
county.
He
served
in
the
last
general
assembly.
He
comes
to
us
from
the
the
barber
profession
he's
a
a
distinct
reminder
that
many
of
us
are
enthusiastic
about
the
things
that
god
didn't
give
us.
A
We
he
has
one
child
and,
and
he
chairs
veterans,
programs
and
community
service
programs.
He
was
on
the
county
commission
for
12
years,
which
is
a
wonderful
training
ground
for
anybody.
That's
in
our
state
government
service.
He
has
a
long
history
of
military
service
and
we
appreciate
that.
We
thank
you
for
that
service,
he's
on
the
insurance
committee,
health
and
and
health
subcommittee.
A
One
thing
I
found
out
about
about
representative
hall:
is
he
he
loves
trivia,
so
have
you
gotten
any
trophies
or
honors
in
trivia?
I've
got
a
trivia
group
that
plays
every
monday
night
and
typically,
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
young
people
there
and
typically,
if
we
can't
overhear
answers,
we
don't
do
well.
A
So
so
at
our
age
the
ears
mean
a
lot
but
best
wishes
to
you
hope.
Your
trivia
works
out
out
for
the
best
we
have
leader,
paul
cheryl,
he's
district
43.
He
comes
to
us
as
a
small
business
owner.
He
represents
grundy,
white
and
part
of
warren
county.
He
has
served
two
terms.
110Th
and
111th.
He's
got
a
lovely
wife
miranda
that
we
traveled
with
in
israel
here
last
year,
a
daughter
marley
and
a
son
lee.
A
We
he's
been
on
the
judicial
committee,
health
committee,
criminal
justice
and
he
is
presently
our
republican
floor
leader.
I
tried
to
find
out
something
interesting
about
leader,
cheryl
and,
and
he
he
is
a
farmer
and
he
at
one
time
had
a
mule
that
he
named
democrat
and
he
had
to
sell
that
poor
mule,
because
every
time
he
got
around
he
got
nervous
and
and
couldn't
perform.
A
D
A
Congratulations:
we
certainly
appreciate
your
service
to
the
state
and
and
to
the
party
and
the
citizens
we
have.
Dr
brian,
terry,
physician
and
anesthesiologist
represents
district
48
part
of
rutherford,
and
he
has
served
three
terms:
the
109th
through
the
111th,
his
lovely
wife,
cheryl's,
son,
braden,
and
a
daughter
breeley.
I
think,
did
I
pronounce
that
correctly.
He
graduated
from
the
university
of
oklahoma
has
his
md
degree
from
oklahoma.
A
He's
been
a
member
of
many
medical
societies.
The
diplomate
of
american
board
of
anesthesiology
comes
with
a
history
of
the
chairing
health
committee
in
insurance,
civil
justice
committee,
and
I
I
didn't
even
get
a
chance
to
ask
his
staff
what
was
interesting
in
his
life
when
I
went
into
his
office.
There's
this
huge
plaque
up
there
and
it
it
has
all
these
gold
records
on
it
and
it's
it's
a
a
band
called
shine
down
and
he
he
apparently
has
a
very
close
relationship
with
this
band.
A
It's
a
it's
a
kind
of
a
rock
band
that
started
about
2001
and
I
think
in
florida
was
it
jacksonville
florida.
E
Thank
you,
chairman
yeah
they're,
based
out
of
out
of
jacksonville,
but
the
lead
singer
and
the
lead
guitarist
are
lead
singers
from
knoxville.
Originally,
the
lead
guitarist
is
from
memphis,
and
so
they
are
originally
tennesseans.
Do
you
play
yourself.
E
F
A
We
have
darren
jernigan,
the
district
60
part
of
davidson
county
is
very
close
to
where
we
are
right
now.
I
guess
he
has
served
for
four
terms.
108Th
through
the
111th
he's
comes
to
us
as
a
healthcare
consultant,
which
I
think
is
very
appropriate
for
this
committee.
A
His
wife
is
his
name
michelle.
He
has
four
children
he's
always
been
an
overachiever
darren
has
four
children
harris
amanda,
elise
and
claire,
and
he
graduated
from
mtsu
in
austin
peay
he's
set
on
lots
of
boards
and
historic
groups.
He
is
is
one
of
the
few
here
I
think
that
is
in
the
masonic
lodge.
He
is
chaired
property
and
casual
sub
insurance
he's
been
on
health
state
government
and
I've
been
on
the
metropolitan
council
for
nashville
for
seven
years
and
and
the
utility
commission.
A
One
very
interesting
thing
I
found
out
about
our
our
illustrious
healthcare
consultant
is
that
he
used
to
drive
speaker
harwell's
sports
car.
I
have
have
yet
to
figure
out
what
to
what
the
connection
is,
except
that
he's
just
a
lucky.
Guy.
G
Well,
I
was
I'll,
tell
the
story
I
was.
I
was
16
years
old
and
and
and
speaker
heart
was
a
friend
good
friend
of
our
family
and
her
mom,
and
I
I
was
walking
home
from
school
and
there
was
a
candy
apple
red
sports
car
in
our
driveway,
and
I
thought,
oh,
my
parents
have
done
it
and
I
throw
my
bags
up,
I'm
running
home
and
I
go
in
and
you
know
beth
my
mom's
in
there.
A
There
you
go,
it's
worked
well
for
you,
it
worked
well
for
us.
We
appreciate
you,
dr
sabi
kumar,
the
district
66
in
robertson
county.
He
served
with
us
for
three
terms.
His
lovely
wife
linda
had
we'd
accompanied
them
as
a
couple
over
to
israel
last
year
and
had
a
wonderful
time.
He
has
a
daughter
nina
and
he
is
a
board
certified
surgeon.
A
The
he's
had
many
medical
staffings
and
fellowships.
He
recently
was
the
clinical
professor
of
surgery
at
vanderbilt
and
he's
been
involved
in
many
community
organizations.
A
He's
chaired
the
mental
health
subcommittee
been
a
member
of
finance,
health
and
education,
and
one
terribly
interesting
thing
I
found
out
about
dr
kumar
is
that
he
has
three
patents
on
medical
devices
and
owns
a
company
that
manufactures
these
patents.
So
congratulations,
sir.
A
That's
that's
quite
a
story:
speaker
pat
marsh
of
district
62,
bedford
and
part
of
lincoln
county
he's
been
with
us
six
terms,
just
maybe
a
month
or
two
less
than
I
have
I
when
when
he
was
running
to
for
a
fill-in
candidate,
I
think
we
had
a
retreat
and
I
did
phone
calls
for
for
you
and
your
district,
and
so
everybody
everybody
that
answered
said.
A
Oh
pat
marsh,
I
love
that
man
he's
got
my
vote,
so
we
he
comes
to
us
as
the
co-owner
and
ceo
of
big
g
express
his
wife,
mary's
son,
rob
and
john
grandson
walker,
her
granddaughter
mary,
anna
maddie
and
kate.
A
He
and
I
are
the
only
ones
with
grandchildren
up
here
that
tells
you
something
he's
been
the
chairman
of
consumer
and
and
he's
involved
in
many
organizations
in
his
community
and
and
is
involved
one
of
the
members
of
walking
horse
national
organization,
he's
chaired
business
and
utilities
ag
and
commerce,
and
the
only
thing
I
could
find
out
he's.
He
lives
a
very
secretive
life.
The
only
thing
I
could
find
out
was
that
as
a
child,
the
speaker
played
with
tonka
toys.
A
That's
that's
why
he
ended
up
with
a
bus,
hey
yeah,
a
truck
company,
so
we're
we're
fortunate.
We
have
two
baptists,
two
presbyterians
one
methodist
one
nazarene
and
three
christians.
So
the
any
questions
about
our
spiritual
strength
or
should
be
laid
to
rest
appreciate
all
of
you.
I
have
a
few
things
that
I'm
commanded
to
speak
about
here
today
and
in
our
committee,
this
being
the
112th
general
assembly,
the
committee
will
start
promptly
at
12
noon.
A
A
A
Bill
notices
must
be
submitted
in
the
online
portal
by
wednesday,
3
30
p.m.
The
week
prior
to
the
bill
being
heard,
the
voice
amendments
will
not
be
entertained
unless
clerical
and
nature
are
making
technical
corrections
and,
of
course,
that's
always
up
to
the
discretion
of
the
committee.
There
will
be
no
running
debate.
Members
may
speak
only
when
recognized
by
the
chairman
and
no
personalities
will
be
allowed.
A
Debate
may
be
limited
in
time
at
the
chairman's
discretion.
If
there
are
several
speakers,
please
appoint
a
spokesperson
members
bringing
guests
who
wish
to
speak.
Let's
give
advanced
notice
to
the
committee
staff
by
12
a.m.
24-Hour
notice,
the
day
before
the
committee
is
scheduled
to
meet
paper,
will
not
be
distributed
in
this
committee.
If
anyone
wants
materials
distributed
to
members,
it
must
be
provided
to
committee
staff
electronically
prior
to
the
meeting
so
that
it
may
be
emailed
to
the
members
and
added
to
the
dashboard.
A
These
policies
are
waivable
by
the
chairman.
At
his
discretion
there
will
be
by
the
new
rules.
No
filming
no
streaming
bills
will
be
calendared
three
times.
If
they
do
not
have
action
after
being
calendared
three
times,
they
will
be
sent
to
a
special
last
calendar
and
the
I
was
told
here
just
a
day
or
so
ago
that
that
we
do
have
options
of
sending
bills
to
summer
study
and
we
do
have
a
general
sub
status
in
the
house.
At
the
moment
we
have
no
committee
roles.
A
My
office
is
always
open
and
if
you
want
to
be
recorded
on
a
vote
other
than
the
prevailing,
the
decision,
please
alert
the
clerk
you
will
receive
process
forms,
and
anybody
that
asks
you
about
these.
Our
chairman,
terry,
prefers
to
get
these
process
forms
for
members
that
put
bills
on
notice.
Those
will
be
made
available.
A
A
Use
of
the
process
form
will
be
used
by
chairman
ramsey
and
chairman
terry.
The
amendments
portal,
electronic
information-
must
be
used.
We
had
an
issue.
Come
up
this
week
that
a
an
amendment
was
filed
in
a
timely
form
in
person,
but
they
have
to
be
done
in
a
timely
form
on
the
portal,
which
can
be
an
issue
because
the
portals
don't
work
when
you
leave
the
premises
so
anything
else
that
comes
up
we'll
try
to
deal
with.
I
do
want
to.
I
have
some
other
staff-
that's
represented
here
today
that
we
want
to
acknowledge.
A
Exceptional
all
these
folks
are
exceptional
committee
assistant,
rochelle
frazier,
she's,
she's
kind
of
the
gatekeeper.
I
don't
guess
I
need
to
tell
everybody
research,
analyst
harris
king
and
will
walker
of
harris
and
will
sometimes
comes
in
afterwards
clerk
seth
beatty
back
in
the
corner,
sergeant-at-arms
wayne
hawkins.
A
Wayne
down
there,
interns,
they're
they're
infrequently
here
with
us,
alyssa,
hobbs
and
sydney
sater
white,
so
we'll
try
to
make
use
of
them
over
the
the
years
time.
That
brings
us
if
there's
no
personal
orders
that
we
have
extended.
That
brings
us
to
our
calendar
for
today.
A
Thank
you,
madam
clerk.
We
have
item
one
house
bill
81
by
leader
lamberth,
which
is
an
administration
bill.
I
think
representative
rudder
is
going
to
present
that
for
us
you're
recognized
at
the
at
the
well.
A
F
D
This
microphone
turned
on.
Yes,
this
is
an
administration
bill
and
this
legislation
seeks.
A
A
We
have
item
two
house
bill
80
by
leader
lamberth,
which
is
an
administration
bill.
I
think
leader
gantt
is
going
to
be
our
sponsor
for
that
you're
recognized.
We
have
proper
motion.
Second
on
the
bill.
I
don't
think
there
are
any
amendments
if
you'd
like
to
discuss
the
bill
with
us.
A
Mr
chairman,
dr
kumar
is
going
to
carry
it
for
us
today.
Oh
okay,
dr
kumar,
you're
recognized.
I
I
This
bill
allows
the
data
to
be
shared
in
the
identified
manner
with
certain
other
entities,
such
as
states
agencies,
as
well
as
the
medical
examiners,
and
it
also
changes
the
quorum
of
the
board
for
the
csmd
database
from
seven
to
six
members,
which
is
still
a
majority.
It's
not
a
two-thirds
with
that
I'll
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
A
My
understanding
is
that
this
bill
was
was,
I
think,
promoted
last
year
and
then
and
then
was
lost
in
the
chaos
of
the
pandemic.
So
I
think
it's
just
left
over
for
some
clarification
last
year.
So
have
any
questions
of
the
sponsor.
A
If
none
we've
had
the
question
called
on
the
bills.
No
objections
to
the
question
we'll
be
voting
to
send
this
bill
to
full
committee.
All
those
in
favor
say
aye
any
opposition
so
approved.
Thank
you,
mr
sponsor
item.
Three
is
house
bill.
215
by
chairman,
curcio
have
a
proper
motion
and
second
on
the
bill.
I
don't
know
that
there
are
any
amendments
if
you'd
like
to
explain
the
bill.
Sir.
J
J
So
I
apologize
if
I
didn't
get
back
around
to
speak
to
everybody
individually,
but
this
is
a
bill
that,
of
course,
I
know
it
was
a
different
committee's
set
up
then,
but
that
passed
last
year
through
the
committee
system
and
passed
the
house
floor
98
to
nothing
and
it's
it's
called
the
safe
act
and
it's
actually
a
continuation
of
something
I've
been
working
on
since
I
entered
the
legislature,
that's
near
and
dear
to
my
heart,
which
is
to
making
sure
that
if
we
have
sober
living
homes
in
tennessee,
which
are
certainly
allowed
and
they're
protected
by
federal,
fair
housing,
I
don't
want
that
protection
by
federal,
fair
housing
to
allow
flop
houses.
J
What
are
called
flop,
houses
to
fly
under
the
radar
and
for
people
to
not
truly
get
the
type
of
treatment
and
services
that
these
houses
are
putting
themselves
out
there.
So
what
this
bill
would
simply
state
is
that
if
you're
going
to
operate
a
sober
living
home
in
the
state
of
tennessee,
we
would
like
for
you
to
join
a
national
accreditation
body.
J
We're
agnostic
about
which
one
you
join
there
are
there
are,
there
are
several
to
choose
from,
and
I
can
I
can
list
some
of
those
for
you
if
you
have
them,
but
nar,
the
national
alliance
for
recovery,
residences,
the
national
sober
living
association,
nsla
or
the
commission
on
accreditation
of
rehabilitation
facilities,
also
known
as
carf
any
of
these
plus
any
number
of
others.
But
we
want
you
to
join
an
accreditation
body
and
by
doing
so
that
that
sort
of
gives
a
good
housekeeping
seal
of
approval.
J
If
you
will
to
that
house,
if
you
have
houses
that
choose
not
to
comply
with
that,
they
can
still
operate
in
the
state
of
tennessee,
but
as
we
have
an
existing
code,
we've
borrowed
from
from
the
existing
safe
act,
which
I
passed
a
couple
of
years
ago,
say
you've
got
to
put
up
a
sign.
That
says
this
house
does
not
adhere
to
best
practices
nationally
or
recognized
best
practices
so
that
consumers
can
know.
J
So,
if
I
haven't
forbid,
if
I
have
a
child
who
needs
to
go
to
a
recovery
residence
and
I
walk
in
to
check
them
in
and
I'm
paying,
you
know
good
money
1200
a
month
or
something
for
them
to
live
there
and
there's
a
sign
in
the
common
room
that
says,
oh
by
the
way,
we
don't
do
things
according
to
best
practices
around.
Here,
that's
going
to
cause
me
to
ask
myself
well,
why
am
I
doing
business
at
this
place
when
I
could
go
next
door
and
maybe
get
better
services
and
that
follow
best
practices?
J
A
Excuse
me
item
4
house
bill
7
by
chairman
zachary.
We
have
a
proper
motion
in
second
on
the
bill.
I
think
there
is
a
an
amendment
and
I'm
understanding
that
the
amendment
makes
the
bill.
Yes,.
A
A
K
K
One
of
those
primary
issues
that
we
have
faced
is
that
related
to
health
boards,
unelected
health
boards
and
our
six
largest
counties
that
have
been
given
through
tca
68,
been
given.
Basically
unlimited
authority
to
issue
orders
mandates
function
as
a
legislative
and
executive
branch
in
knox
county.
It's
it's
been
a
tremendous
impact
on
the
direction
of
our
county
during
this
pandemic,
because
the
health
board
has
been
at
odds
with
our
elected
county
mayor,
our
elected
sheriff
and
our
elected
law
director.
K
I
see
chairman
smith
down
here
in
front
hamilton.
County
has
a
health
board,
but
they
haven't
had
those
issues.
Their
health
board
functions
as
an
advisory
board.
Davidson
county
has
a
health
board.
They've
been
on
the
same
page.
Madison
has
had
some
issues
again.
We've
had
issues
in
knox,
county
sullivan.
They
do
not
have
a
health
board,
so
it
doesn't
impact
them.
So
what
this
piece
of
legislation
does
it
simply
addresses
the
health
board?
It
moves
the
health
board
into
an
advisory
role.
K
It
does
not
address
the
department
of
health,
it
does
the
health
department
within
the
particular
counties.
It
does
not
address
the
health
director.
It
only
addresses
the
unelected
health
board
and
simply
moves
them
to
an
advisory
role,
which
is
the
role
they
should
be
in
in
knox
county
before
this
pandemic
began
on
the
health
board's
website,
it
had
them
listed
as
an
advisory
board,
and
so
what
this
pandemic
is
revealed.
K
This
has
been
in
the
book
since
since
1985
that
the
words
adopt
and
enforce
are
used
in
tca
682
601,
which
gives
this
health
board
unchecked
power.
Unlimited
power.
They
are
accountable
to
no
one
if
our
county
mayor
objects
that
there's
no
recourse
for
the
county
mayor,
because
statute
gives
them
this
unelected
health
board
unlimited
power.
I
think
everyone
is
familiar
with
the
phrase
from
the
declaration.
I
believe
it's
the
fourth
line,
where
governments
derive
their
power
from
the
consent
of
the
governed.
K
That
is
not
the
way
our
government
using
having
an
elected
health
board,
be
able
to
issue
mandates
and
orders
is
not
the
way
our
government
works.
We
have
three
branches
of
government,
we
do
not
have
four,
and
so
I
don't
see
this
as
a
partisan
issue.
I've
talked
to
my
colleagues
on
both
sides
of
the
aisle.
You
can
take
the
issues
of
masks
gatherings
all
that
out
of
it.
This
is
a
fundamental,
broken
piece
of
code,
which
gives
incredible
power
to
unelected
bodies
and
just
to
clear
up
some
misinformation
related
to
the
health
boards.
K
Most
people
think
they
derive
their
power
from
the
state
of
emergency
that
we're
currently
in
under
tca
58.
That
is
not
the
case.
The
real
concern
with
the
with
the
health
boards
and
us
moving
forward
is
that
when
the
governor
ends
his
state
of
emergency,
he
can
no
longer
step
in
via
statute.
He
can
no
longer
step
in
and
stop
any
action
of
the
health
board,
which
is
what
he
can
do
today,
because
we're
in
a
state
of
emergency.
K
So
these
health
boards
can
continue
to
issue
orders
and
mandates
at
the
objection
of
the
elected
county
executive.
If
they
choose
to
do
so,
and
it's
got
it's
got,
it's
got
to
be
fixed,
it's
got
to
be
addressed
and
it's
got
to
be
addressed
now
by
this
body,
and
let
me
just
give
a
couple
of
quick
examples.
Mr
chairman,
then
I'll
be
done.
One
of
probably
one
of
the
more
egregious
things
that
we
have
seen
in
knox
county.
K
Just
to
give
you
an
example,
as
our
health
board
had
prepared
and
actually
issued
on
their
agenda,
they
were
going
to
ask
the
governor
to
give
them
the
authority
to
regulate
every
county
that
touched
knox
county
chairman
ramsey,
blunt
county
would
have
been
one
of
those.
They
were
literally
going
we're
literally
going
to
request
that
each
one
of
those
counties
be
subject
to
their
jurisdiction,
and
fortunately
people
in
our
county
rose
up
and
people
in
the
other
counties
rose
up
and
they
pulled
that
from
the
agenda.
K
So,
mr
chairman,
with
that,
I
will
rest
in
my
presentation
of
this
again.
This
simply
moves
this
682
601
is
the
section
related
to
the
health
boards.
Simply
moves
them
to
an
advisory
role.
It
does
not
in
any
way
impact
the
independent
health
departments
in
the
six
counties.
The
health
officer
has
no
impact.
It
simply
moves
these
this
this
board
to
an
advisory
role,
and
then
I
lied,
mr
chairman,
I'll
make
one
more
point.
K
One
one
objection
that
I've
gotten
to
this
is
well.
It's
the
the
health.
That's
works.
You've
got
to
let
the
let
the
health
experts
make
the
decision,
help
guide
this
process,
and
I
agree
we
have
to
have
our
health
health
experts
and
those
that
specialize
in
this
helping
us
make
these
decisions,
just
like
we
do
on
the
state.
K
Commissioner,
piercy
and
her
team
have
done
a
phenomenal
job
advising
the
governor
walking
him
through
this,
and
then
he
makes
the
ultimate
final
decision
well,
the
same
thing
should
apply
in
our
counties,
and
so
these
boards,
while
we
have
to
have
boards
like
this
to
advise
this
board,
is
constructed
in
a
way
that
they're
able
to
advise
on
multiple
issues
and
the
reason
I
say
that
and
bring
that
up.
Just
so
we're
clear.
K
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
want
to
commend
and
thank
chairman
zachary
for
bringing
this
legislation
and
just
simply
say
that
we
have
accepted
the
false
narrative
that
we
can't
have
our
liberty,
our
religion,
our
good
governments
and
take
care
of
public
health
at
the
same
time-
and
I
want
to
on
behalf
of
hamilton
county
and
speaking
from
our
mayor-
thank
you
for
codifying
the
practice.
D
That's
right
now
implemented
in
hamilton
county
and
just
wish
everyone
the
best,
as
this
is
moving
forward,
but
just
know
that
in
practice
this
has
worked
very
well
already
in
hamilton,
county
and
a
few
others.
But
it
is
important
for
elected
officials
to
carry
that
last
moment
of
making.
But
thank
you
and
you
have
my
support.
Thank
you.
A
We
have
a
question
called
on
the
amendment.
If
there
are
no
objections,
we'll
be
voting
on
the
amendment,
the
places
on
the
bill,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye,
any
opposition
we're
back
on
the
bill
as
amended.
We
have
questions
or
comments
on
the
bill
and
I
I
would
like
to
ask-
I
think:
we've
talked
about
this
several
times.
A
K
Sir,
that
that's
actually
I'm
glad
you
actually
brought
that
up
so
section
one
of
this
bill.
I
had
gotten
some
questions
about
that.
So
when
this
leaves
this
this
body,
I'm
actually
gonna
talk
to
sherman
terry
about
this,
I'm
just
going
to
strike
section
one
completely.
It's
not
even
going
to
be
in
the
bill
when
you
see
this
in
full
committee.
A
K
The
board
now
just
to
be
clear,
mr
chairman,
you're
you're
in
blount
county.
So
it's
different
than
knox
or
the
other.
A
K
A
Okay
and
and
I'm
left
a
little
bit
questioning
just
a
little
bit,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
things
that
the
board
of
health
do
that.
Nobody
else
wants
to
touch.
They
condemn
hazardous
property
and
when
the
when
the
county
mayor
gets
a
complaint
that
somebody's
not
keeping
their
property
up
and
their
rats
on
it,
that's
the
people
we
have
to
go
to
to
to
take
action.
The
rabies
programs,
std
programs,
inspections
of
restaurants
and
things
like
that
they
get.
A
They
take
a
lot
of
issues
that
that
really
the
county
government
don't
want
to
deal
with.
Is
that
going
to
change.
K
A
K
A
K
I
I
think
you
know
that
I
was
skeptical
about
it
because
again
I
felt
that
decision
making
on
medical
matters
should
belong
to
the
health
science
experts,
but
I
see
the
model
that
you
present,
in
which
the
mayor
being
the
elected
officials,
makes
the
final
decision
and
he
seeks
advice
from
this
expert
panel
and
the
expert
panel,
although
scientific
should
not
really
have
the
power
to
implement.
Am
I
correct
and
yeah.
I
Which
board
did
you
mention
functions
at
this
time
as
an
advisory
board?.
K
Well,
initially,
when,
when
this
pandemic
began
on
the
knox
county
website,
it
listed
them
as
an
advisory
board.
So
this
this
has
been
on
the
book.
Since
1985,
no
health
board
has
ever
exercised
this
kind
of
power
because
they
didn't
know
it
existed.
So
we
began
to
have
some
friction
in
knox
county,
particularly
specifically
in
knox
county
when
this
pandemic
began,
and
so
we
had
to
go
to
legal,
our
law
director.
I
A
A
Thank
you
and
we're
down
to
how
item
five
house
joint
resolution
4
by
representative
lamar
you're
recognized
at
the
well.
F
Thank
you.
Thank
you
committee.
Thank
you
chairman.
The
goal
of
this
legislation
is
to
clarify
the
role
of
a
doula.
A
doula
is
a
trained
non-medical
person
who
provides
non-clinical
emotional,
physical
and
informational
support
before
during
after
labor
and
birth.
Doulas
are
necessary.
Impactful
members
of
the
child
birth
team,
whose
presence
can
have
a
positive
impact
on
maternal
infant
mortality
in
tennessee,
as
well
as
to
be
beneficial
to
communities
of
color,
low-income
communities
in
this
state
because
of
doulas.
They
provide
four
key
forms
of
support.
F
Physical,
emotional,
informational
and
advocacy
right
here
in
tennessee,
black
mothers
are
dying
at
higher
higher
rates.
Our
tennessee
department
of
health
found
that
in
2017
and
2018
46
black
women
died,
while
pregnant
or
with
one
year
of
pregnancy,
in
tennessee
and
100
percent
of
these
were
deemed
preventable.
It
is
a
fact
that
doulas
reduce
the
rate
of
women
dying
because
of
pregnancy
related
issues,
and
they
ensure
that
we
can
combat
our
infant
mortality
rate.
I
ask
for
your
support
for
this
piece
of
legislation.
A
Okay
well,
thank
you
very
much.
I
had
signed
on
to
this
resolution
and
we
all
have
followed
closely
your
family
situation
in
the
last
year
and
have
the
deepest
sympathy
and-
and
we
hope
that
everything
has
recovered
to
somewhat
normal
and
do
appreciate
your
insight.
Of
course,
I've
got
an
earful
about
doulas
from
rochelle
frazier.
My
chief
assistant
she's
been
involved
with
one
in
her
family
for
the
in
the
last
couple
of
weeks.
So
I'd
like
to
open
the
floor
for
any
questions
or
comments
about
this
bill
resolution.
A
D
Thank
you
chairman,
and
I
do
have
an
amendment
amendment
3638
does.
D
A
Okay,
we
have
a
motion
and
second
on
the
amendment
we'll
discuss
the
just
go
ahead
and
discuss
the
bill
and
and
the
effect
of
the
amendment,
if
you
like.
Thank.
D
You,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
committee,
as,
as
you
will
remember,
last
year
and
and
really
at
the
end
of
2019
tennessee
made
some
unfortunate
headlines
in
an
unknown
large
reserve
of
over
725
million
dollars,
almost
a
billion
dollars
that
had
been
accumulated
in
unspent
funds
and
again
being
a
conservative
body.
We
don't
just
spend
money,
we
want
it
to
be
invested
in
the
the
lives
of
tennesseans,
but
this
this
a
large
sum
of
money,
was
unspent.
D
It
was,
and
it
was
unknown,
and
this
is
simply
a
bill
that
would
direct
on
a
quarterly
basis.
The
reporting
to
our
leadership
here
in
the
legislature
and
the
finance
committees,
as
well
as
the
leadership
and
our
committees
of
health
on
a
month
on
a
quarter
by
quarter
basis,
federal
funds
not
just
limited
to
the
department
of
human
services
but
others
so
that
we
can
avoid
such
a
position
that
we
found
ourselves
in
just
over
18
months
ago,
and
with
that
I'll,
be
happy.
Mr
chairman,
to
answer
any
questions.
A
E
Thank
you
chairman.
It's
not
really
a
question
more
of
a
statement.
This
the
amendment
was
to
ensure
that
the
chairs
of
the
health
committee
and
the
house
and
senate
did
receive
this
report.
I
served
with
representative
smith
on
the
tanf
working
group
and
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
receive
that
information.
That's
what
this
amendment
does.
A
No
further
questions
or
comments
on
the
amendment.
If
none
will
be
voting
on
the
amendment,
all
those
in
favor
of
putting
the
amendment
on
the
bill
say:
aye
aye,
any
opposition
so
approved
we're
back
on
the
bill
as
amended.
We
have
questions
or
comments,
if
not
we'll
be
voting
to
send
the
bill
as
amended
to
full
committee,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye.
A
Thank
you
and
we
have
item
seven
house
bill
179
by
representative
hall,
you're
recognized,
sir,
have
a
proper
motion
and
second
on
the
bill.
H
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
committee
house,
bill
179
is
a
cleanup
bill
brought
to
me
by
the
tennessee
primary
care
association.
Basically,
this
grants
the
fqhcs
the
same
liability
protection
as
other
medical
facilities,
and
with
that
I
arrest
mr
chairman.
A
And-
and
I
think
this
this
also
is
a
a
situation
where
the
facilities
were
left
out
of
previous
code
and
so
just
kind
of
a
repair,
any
comments
or
questions
on
the
bill.
A
H
A
A
B
The
amendment
mr
chairman,
which
is
drafting
code
zero,
zero.
Three
seven
four
six
makes
just
a
few
technical
changes
that
were
sent
to
us
by
the
department
of
health
and
department
of
mental
health.
Okay,.
A
B
Mr
chairman,
and
just
to
clarify
anytime,
the
word
telemedicine
is
brought
up.
There
are
a
lot
of
people
that
that
you
know
the
the
hair
on
the
back
of
their
neck
stands
up
because
they're
afraid
we're
going
to
get
into
insurance
reimbursement
rates.
This
does
nothing
of
the
sort.
This
basically
deals
with
graduate
and
doctorate
level
professionals
under
title
63,
which
would
be
behavioral
health
speech.
B
A
Any
questions
or
comments
specifically
on
the
amendment
or
the
bill:
let's
go
ahead
and
put
the
amendment
on
the
bill,
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye
any
opposition,
we're
back
on
the
bill
as
amended.
Yes,
sir
representative
freeman.
C
Thank
you
very
much.
I've
gotten
a
few
phone
calls
and-
and
I
know
the
answer,
but
I
want
to
hear
you
say
it
as
well
the
the
question
that
I've
had
multiple
times
sponsor
is:
will
they
be
required
to
be
supervised
by
a
licensed
individual.
B
C
Is
that
further
questions?
Yes,
thank
you.
This
is
thank
you
for
bringing
this
bill.
This
is
very
needed
and,
and
will
do
a
lot
of
great
good.
A
Further
questions
or
comments
on
the
bill
as
amended,
and
we
do
appreciate
that
there
are
several
things
that
have
been
opened
up
by
the
administrative
orders
and
and
that
we're
going
to
make
permanent.
So
I
appreciate
you
bringing
that
forward,
we'll
be
voting
on
sending
this
to
the
full
committee.
All
those
in
favor
say
aye.
E
All
right,
we
are
on
item
number
10
house
bill
183
by
chairman
ramsey,
here,
you're
recognized.
A
And-
and
I
appreciate
you
so
much,
mr
chairman,
we
we
had
two
amendments
on
this
bill.
One
is
just
a
catch-up
from
last
year,
the
other
one
I
think
has
been
withdrawn.
A
Yes,
okay
and
I'll
be
glad
to
discuss
the
bill
before
we
discuss
the
amendment
or
we'll
put
the
amendment
on
what
happened
we
passed
this
last
year
and
and
so
we're
having
to
change
the
date
in
the
bill
to
reflect
being
presented
this
year.
So
that's
essentially
all
that
the
amendment
does.
Okay,
let's
get
the
amendment.
E
On
on
the
bill,
so
we
can
discuss
the
bill,
so
we
need
a
motion.
A
second
on
amendment,
zero,
three,
zero,
zero,
three,
six,
nine
seven!
We
have
a
motion,
a
second
any
questions
about
the
date
change
there:
okay,
seeing
none
we're
voting
on
amendment
zero,
zero,
three,
six,
nine
seven,
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye
opposed;
okay
and
okay,
we're
back
on
the
bill
as
amended.
A
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and,
and
this
bill
I've
spoken
to
most
of
you
about
it.
Maybe
several
years
the
bill
is
addressing
only
licensed
and
professional
art
therapists
in
tennessee
between
world
war,
one
and
world
war
ii.
Art
was
found
to
be
an
effective
way
in
communicating
with
children,
adults
and
seniors
that
were
suffering
from
brain
trauma,
brain
injuries
of
psychological
trauma
and
and
just
flat
lacking
communication
skills
in
1942.
The
practice
of
art
was
used
with
psychotherapy
and
was
standardized
in
in
1994.
A
The
art
therapy
certification
board
began
the
national
credentialing
for
art
therapy
board
certification.
This
bill
by
adopting
the
licensing
status
for
art
therapists.
Practice
in
tennessee
will
do
several
things
and
then
several
things.
It
won't
do
that
that
some
people
think
it
will,
what
it
will
do
is
it
will
increase
access
to
affordable
quality,
mental
health
care
providers.
A
A
We
were
told
that
only
covet
bills
would
be
considered,
and-
and
I'm
told
by
our
that-
that
no
bills
passed
last
year
addressing
mental
health
for
specifically
mental
health
or
for
covert
relief
either
one
and
I'm
told
by
our
largest
mental
health
counseling
provider
in
my
region
that
new
counselors
are
excuse
me
moving
away
from
the
profession,
because
there
has
been
no
increase
in
pay
in
years
and
it's
it's
a
it's
a
difficult
and
and
long
training
program,
and
so,
in
effect,
what
we're
looking
at
is
is
even
more
difficult
in
getting
folks
to
this
field
when
there's
actually
a
bigger
need
for
it.
A
Continually
less
than
50
percent
of
the
adults
receive
the
help
they
need
and
currently
tennessee
ranks
among
the
worst
of
all
50
states
in
access
to
mental
health
care
for
children,
which
we
find
statistically
less
than
30
percent
of
the
children.
With
diagnosis
actually
receive
care,
the
the
governor
has
announced
this
year
that
he's
going
to
put
some
more
money
into
mental
health
care,
but
it's
going
to
come
through
the
the
children's
programs
and
the
didd
department
that
that
is
not
going
to
go
to
tenncare.
A
So,
although
tenncare's
not
going
to
have
their
two
percent
decrease
like
they
thought
that
they
would
they're
going
to
be
stable
and
there's
going
to
be
no
increase
and
and
typically
50
to
80
percent
of
of
counseling
is
done
within
tenncare
and
we're
talking
about
children,
so
art
therapists
have
are,
are
really
a
key,
a
portion
of
the
the
solution.
A
They
have
a
master's
level,
mental
health
status
and
training
specialized
in
education
and
training
to
effectively
work
with
all
ages
and
a
wide
range
of
mental
health
needs,
including
depression,
anxiety,
substance,
abuse
and
trauma.
Ptsd
schizophrenia,
substance,
abuse,
rehab
and
and
cancer
suffers
close
to
90.
Art
therapists
across
the
state
are
working
in
medical
and
psychiatric
hospitals,
clinic
schools,
nursing
homes,
communicating
settings
and
a
lot
of
them
are
not
working
in
their
field
because
of
the
status
of
their
licensure.
A
A
The
department
of
defense
actually
appreciates
the
usefulness
of
it
and
employs
art
therapists
to
work
with
veterans
and
active
military
service
members
for
brain
injury,
ptsd
and
related
psychological
issues.
Second,
lady,
karen
pence
has
made
a
rising
awareness
and
access
to
art
therapy.
Her
signature
cause
beginning
in
2017,
and
she
actually
set
up
a
an
organization
called
healing
with
heart
initiative.
A
You
can't
work
there
because
it
has
federal
funding,
and
so
that's
that's
one
of
the
big
issues
that
we're
looking
at.
We
actually
have
seven
schools
of
higher
education
that
have
undergraduate
programs
and
and
actually
mtsu
is
planning
a
a
doctor
or
a
master's
program
that
will
allow
the
the
master's
identification
in
the
hundred
and
the
thousand
hours
that's
required
in
residency
before
they
can
be
certified
with
a
national
board
certification.
A
Well,
that's
what
the
bill
will
do.
What
this
bill
will
not
do
is
it
will
not
stop
anybody
from
using
art
personally
or
professionally
I
had.
I
took
an
art
course
over
ut,
and
somebody
said
why
didn't
you
go
arrest,
the
teacher,
because
she
didn't
claim
that
she
was
a
professional
art,
therapist
or
a
licensed
art
therapist,
and
that's
the
only
two
categories
that
this
this
applies
to.
It
has
nothing
to
do
with
sunday.
School
has
nothing
to
do
with
art
teachers
in
school.
A
Unless
they
want
to
be
included
in
those
two
categories,
it
does
not
have
a
new
regulatory
board.
What
will
happen
by
the
language
of
this
bill
is
that
there
will
be
an
advisory
committee
established
in
the
board
of
psychology,
and
they
will
it'll
be
a
three-member
board
appointed
by
the
governor
and
and
they
will
actually
draw
dues
it.
It
does
not
cost
the
state
any
money
and
it
and
it
does
not
in
any
way
define
the
term
of
art.
So
so
your
vacation
bible,
school
teachers
have
nothing
to
fear
your
teachers
in
schools.
A
It
absolutely
does
not
define
art.
The
facts
are
that
it
does
create
a
professional
license
for
art
therapists
in
tennessee
under
the
board
of
examiners
of
psychology,
and
we
know
that
creating
the
professional
license
for
the
field
of
art
therapy
relates
to
better
mental
health
care.
I've
I've
called
my
regional
service
people,
my
regional
providers,
and
they
say
that
it's
a
great
adjunct
to
what
they
do,
especially
with
children
autistic
children.
A
The
it
relates
to
to
to
better
have
mental
health
and
is
it
has
been
approved
in
17
states
where
summer
legislation
has
already
passed,
and
I
think
we
have
about
30
more
that
are
considering
it
at
the
time
it
increases
access
to
master's
level.
Qualified
mental
health
professionals
protects
the
public,
creates
jobs,
contributes
to
tennessee's
economy
and
will
bring
more
art
therapists
to
tennessee
and
and
the
mtsu
program.
A
That's
being
designed,
it's
hard
to
get
people
to
be
involved
in
undergraduate
or
graduate
programs
if
they
can't
be
licensed
in
the
state,
and
so
that's
that's
kind
of
where
we
find
ourselves.
A
A
The
I
will
we
had
last
year.
We
don't
have
her
this
year
to
to
speak
to
us,
dr
sylvia
ritchie
of
the
associate
medical
director
of
the
integrated
oncology
at
west
cancer
center.
That's
in
memphis
research
and
institute.
She
came
and
spoke
to
us
last
year
and
she
told
us
that
that
they
really
because
of
the
the
fact
that
they
treat
cancer,
they
treat
people
in
very
difficult
situations
that
they
found.
It
just
really
compelling
to
have
an
art
therapy
program
and
what
was
so
interesting
about
it.
A
A
She
said
it's
so
important
and
one
of
the
most
interesting
things
about
it
was
that
they
found
that
the
staff
actually
used
it
in
the
incomparable
percentage
for
because
that's
a
that's
a
tough
business
when
you're
dealing
with
people
that
that
are
typically
in
very
poor
health,
that's
very
stressful
on
the
employees
and
they
she
said
that
they
found
that
it
was
as
useful
for
their
employees
as
it
was
for
the
patients.
A
So
I
I
got
more
information
got
more
that
I
can
share
on
that,
and
I
will
await
questions
to
do
so.
If,
if
your
beard
hasn't
grown
long
enough.
E
E
So
without
objection,
I'm
going
to
go
out
of
session
and
have
stephanie
witt
and
braden
busek
come
up
to
testify
without
objection.
We're
out
of
session.
E
For
the
record,
tell
us
your
name
and
who
you're
with
and
to
the
microphone.
Please.
L
All
right,
my
name
is
stephanie
whitt,
I'm
the
executive
vice
president
of
beacon
impact,
and
thank
you
to
the
chairman
for
allowing
me
to
testify
today
and
also
to
chairman
ramsey
for
hearing
us
for
the
past
couple
of
years,
as
we've
discussed
the
spill
going
forward.
This
is
my
colleague
my.
L
So
we're
here
today
to
testify
in
opposition
to
the
bill
as
it's
currently
written,
and
the
reason
for
that
is
that
a
couple
of
years
ago
there
was
a
bill
that
was
passed
by
the
general
assembly
called
the
right
to
earn
a
living
act,
and
in
that
bill
the
general
assembly
contemplated
occupational
licensure
as
a
whole.
They
went
through
the
different
excuse
me.
L
They
went
through
the
different
licenses
that
we
had
in
the
state,
and
the
government
operations
committee
is
making
recommendations
as
to
whether
or
not
some
of
those
license
should
continue
to
go
forward,
but
also
any
new
license
that
comes
up
should
be
looked
at
through
the
lens
of
what
is
the
least
restrictive
means
to
regulate
an
occupation
necessary
full-blown
licensure
is
the
most
restrictive
of
those
below.
That
is
a
registration
that
would
allow
people
to
still
be
registered
with
the
department,
but
also
not
be
as
restrictive
as
a
full-blown
occupational
license.
L
When
we
looked
at
art
therapy,
specifically,
we
found
that
there
are
only
nine
states
that
currently
license
art
therapists
and
five
of
those
don't
license
them
as
their
own
separate
license.
So
only
four
of
the
of
the
nine
actually
license
it
as
a
separate
occupational
license,
the
other
five
that
do
license
it
put
it
underneath
of
another
license
in
the
board
of
psychology,
and
they
can
have
an
endorsement
on
that
license.
So
say
you
are
a
licensed
psychologist.
L
L
It
also
creates
a
new
advisory
board
attached
to
the
department
of
psychology
or
to
the
psychology
board
and
in
that
attachment
to
it,
it
mandates
that
the
governor
only
consult
with
one
organization,
in
particular
the
tennessee
association
of
art
therapists
in
determining
who
should
be
on
that
board.
We
typically
don't
name
things
in
the
statute
anymore
in
the
general
assembly
over
the
past.
I
don't
know
10
years
that
I've
been
up
here.
It's
been
a
practice
that
has
been
not
something
that
we
continue
to
do.
L
E
While
we're
on
a
session,
do
we
have
questions
for
them
while
they're
up
for
the
thinking
center,
while
they're
up
here.
E
You
mentioned
something
that
I
thought
was
kind
of
interesting,
which
I
had
not
heard
before.
So
in
medicine,
we
have
board
certifications,
and
you
know
I'm
a
physician
board
certified
anesthesiologist,
but
then
there's
other
sub-specialties
that
I
can
get
certified
certified
pain,
specialist,
critical
care,
that's
something
that
can
be
as
a
subsection
below
my
license
and
not
necessarily
create
a
new
license.
Is
that
what
I
was
hearing?
How
you
described
is
that
something
that
could
be
done.
E
Do
you
know
how
that
impacts
like
any
reimbursement
or
anything
if
they're,
if
they're
a
licensed
therapist,
and
then
they
have
a
certification
underneath
that
does
that
I
mean,
maybe
that
may
be
for
the
next
person
is
going
to
testify.
I
mean
that's
something
I
would
just
like
to
know
how
that
impacts
reimbursement
for
what
what
they
do.
Yeah.
L
And
we've
talked
to
the
art
therapist
association.
We
definitely
are
not
opposed
to
art
therapy
in
any
way
shape
or
form,
and
I
want
to
make
that
clear.
We
just
believe
that
there's
another
way
to
accomplish
that
goal
of
reimbursement
that
you
were
talking
about,
that
is
important
in
the
medical
field.
Registration
could
accomplish
that.
I
think
an
endorsement
could
accomplish
that.
But
you
know
we
would
have
to
look
at
the
language
to
make
sure
that
that
was
a
possibility.
E
Okay,
just
it
just
had
dawned
on
me
the
way
that
you
had
described
that
that's
the
first
time,
I'd
heard
that
it
potentially
could
be
done.
That
way.
Another
question
towards
the
misdemeanor:
did
you
speak
towards
that.
L
Yeah,
so
it
we
also
found
that
it
was
interesting
that
there
was
a
new
misdemeanor
crime
being
put
into
the
spill,
which
we
felt
went
a
little
too
far
in
somebody
that
may
not
be
doing
anything
that
they
thought
that
they
were
doing
outside
of
their
scope
or
or
was
wrong
in
the
bill.
It
says
that
if
you're
currently
practicing
a
in
another
field,
you're
exempted
from
this
licensure
if
you're
licensed
as
another
professional.
But
what's
not
clear,
is
if
it
says
within
your
scope.
H
You
know,
I
understand
that
the
first
rule
of
medicine
is
to
do
no
harm
and-
and
I
think
medicine
and
therapy
and
lag
is-
is
best
achieved
when
it's
when
we
attack
it
as
a
group
effort-
and
I
like
the
legislation
for
the
simple
fact
that
I'm
looking
for
something
that
moves
the
needle
in
a
positive
way
and
like
most
representatives
here,
we're
here
to
improve
the
people's
lives
of
of
tennessee
and
whatever
that
looks
like,
and
I
don't
think
therapy
is
a
one
size
fits
all,
and
I
understand
that
you
you.
H
You
have
some
concerns,
but
but
I
I
think
that
it's
worth
the
risk.
I
think
it's
worth
taking
the
chance
on
improving
people's
lives.
However,
that
looks
like
in
the
future
and
maybe
they're
doing
that
now
and
maybe
it
looks
different
and
maybe
it's
not
maybe
it's
not
defined
the
same
way,
but
at
this
point
with
with
depression,
ptsd
and
a
host
of
other
mental
illnesses
that
are
on
the
rise,
I'm
I'm
willing
to
gamble
on
it.
H
That's,
and
I
that's
my
stance.
That's
all.
E
Thank
you
any
further
questions.
While
we
have
them
up
here,
okay,
seeing
none.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony.
While
we
are
out
of
session,
we
have
a
katherine
hare
and
a
page
sheinberg,
okay,.
E
And
for
the
record,
just
you
know
tell
us
your
name
and
who
you're
with
in
the
microphone.
Please.
M
M
My
name
is
katherine
harris
and
I
am
an
art
therapist
here
in
tennessee
working
in
nashville,
I'm
also
a
volunteer
with
the
tennessee
art
therapy
association
and
we've
been
working
for
several
years
now
with
our
sponsors,
representative,
ramsey
and
senator
becky
massey
on
this
bill,
and
so
I
really
do
appreciate
your
time
and
your
attention
and
just
your
willingness
to
talk
about
it
today,
because
I
think
that
is
one
of
our
main
goals
is
to
have
a
conversation
about
the
state
of
mental
health
in
tennessee
and
to
look
at
how
art
therapy
can
really
help
with
that,
and
I
can,
I
know
representative
ramsey,
said
a
lot
and
spoke
to
the
benefits
of
our
profession,
and
there
are
a
few
things
I
can
add
to
it
as
well
as
clear
up
some
of
the
maybe
concerns
or
information
that
was
just
presented
by
the
beacon
center.
M
I
do
want
to
take
a
step
back
and
really
talk
about
what
a
collaborative
effort
this
bill
was.
When
writing
the
original
language.
We
not
only
worked
with
our
sponsors,
but
we
worked
with
the
tennessee
psychological
association
that
represents
the
board
of
examiners
of
psychology
where
this
license
will
fall
under
we
worked
with
the
tennessee
medical
association.
M
M
M
They
come
from
psychologists
who
are
a
part
of
the
board
that
we're
going
to
go
under.
So
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
this
has
been
a
very
collaborative
effort
and
I
think
something
that
we're
really
happy
to
speak
to
is
how
all
these
different
groups
are
coming
together
to
show
the
benefit
just
to
clear
up
a
couple
things
that
were
said
earlier
and
to
talk
about
the
profession
through
the
american
art
therapy
association,
our
national
professional
association,
that
advocates
for
mental
health
that
advocates
for
the
profession
of
art
therapy.
M
You
can
go
to
their
website
and
see
that
there
are
currently
15
states
that
have
a
license
for
our
therapy.
15,
not
the
number
that
was
quoted
earlier
and
from
those
states
who
have
passed
this
similar
legislation.
We
know
that
there's
established
proof
for
the
need
of
licensure
over
certification,
and
that
is
because
art
therapy
is
not
a
specialty.
It's
not
a
subset,
it's
not
a
tool
or
modality.
M
M
M
Now
before
the
pandemic,
our
state
was
already
in
a
crisis
of
mental
health,
with
a
number
of
people
diagnosed
and
the
lack
of
mental
health
providers
available
to
serve
them,
and
we
know
that
fewer
and
fewer
people
are
going
into
graduate
programs
for
mental
health,
and
so
those
numbers
of
providers
will
only
decline,
and
so
we
know
in
those
states
that
have
license
we're
increasing
jobs.
We're
increasing
programs
when
you
have
that
opportunity
more
art,
therapists,
move
to
the
state,
so
you're
increasing
the
level
of
providers.
M
M
Virginia's
executive
executive
summary
states
that
the
unregulated
practice
of
the
profession
poses
the
potential
for
significant
harm
to
the
public,
especially
in
consideration
of
the
vulnerability
of
the
patients.
The
profession
serves
no
alternatives
to
licensure,
where
deemed
commiserate
with
the
public's
protection,
and
that
is
because
a
license
offers
title
protection.
It
offers
practice
protection.
M
E
Harris,
I
don't
have
to
interrupt
you
there.
I've
been
told
that
we're
we're
supposed
to
have
time
limits
on
this.
So
if,
if
you
don't
mind,
give
you
just
a
few
seconds
to
kind
of
wrap
up,
I've
got
some
members
that
want
to
have
questions
for
you.
M
M
The
certification
that
was
proposed
in
the
amendment
that's
now
been
taken
off,
removed
all
of
those
things
it
even
drastically
reduced
the
educational
requirements,
the
training
requirements
really
dangerously
opening
the
door
to
people
to
say
they
could
practice
art
therapy
when
they
don't
even
have
the
training
in
art
therapy,
let
alone
mental
health.
So
that's
what
we're
really
trying
to
do
here
is
to
address
the
crisis
of
mental
health
in
tennessee,
with
this
license
and
doing
so
in
a
way
that's
safe
and
effective
for
the
public.
E
Thank
you,
representative
freeman.
You
recognize.
C
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
your
testimony
and
and
thank
you
to
the
chairman
for
bringing
this
bill
today.
I
can't
tell
you
how
much
I
think
this
is
going
to
change
therapy.
My
wife,
who
was
a
lcsw
who
does
therapy
for
children
who
are
victims
of
rape
and
sexual
abuse.
C
Does
everything
in
my
book
right,
but
she's,
not
an
artist
and
to
to
to
try
to
go
down
the
path
of
having
a
certification
on
top
of
a
license
is,
is
missing
the
point
of
of
the
the
good
and
hard
work
that
you
guys
do,
and
I
want
to
add
one
more
thing
for
some
of
the
other
members
that
may
not
have
heard
these
stories
before,
but
for
young
children
who
are
the
victims
of
rape
and
sexual
abuse
that
don't
have
the
words
to
describe
the
horrors
that
that
has
happened
to
them.
C
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
appreciate
your
testimony
on
this.
I
do
have
a
question.
I
know
people
that
are
licensed
counselors
or
therapists.
Now
oftentimes
will
use
art.
Sometimes
it
may
be
to
calm
a
child
down.
Sometimes
it
will
be
so
that
a
child
can
draw
what
they've
been
through.
Would
those
folks
have
to
get
certified
to
to
I
mean
is
that
art
therapy.
M
M
What
the
license
addresses
really
is
just
that
term
of
licensed
professional
art
therapist.
So
it
protects
that
title
so
that
individuals
who
are
seeking
an
art
therapist
know
when
they
see
that
title.
The
individual
not
only
has
the
mental
health
training,
but
has
the
training
in
art
and
how
to
use
art
with
those
specific
diagnoses.
M
So
it's
not
going
to
stop
any
professions,
even
other
mental
health
professionals
from
using
art
in
their
practice.
The
only
issue
is
whether
you're
calling
at
art
therapy
to
denote
that
training,
or
you
know,
I
see
a
lot
of
practitioners-
say
the
use
of
therapeutic
arts,
or
you
know,
bringing
creativity
into
the
practice.
Things
like
that.
That
show
that,
yes,
you
know,
I
am
a
licensed
psychologist
or
a
social
worker,
and
I
may
you
use
art,
but
I'm
not
an
art,
therapist
and
so
just
to
really
kind
of
make.
B
M
Sure-
and
it's
you
know
coming
from
information
that
I
mentioned
in
those
other
states
that
have
passed
license.
You
know
and
some
occurrences
here
too,
where
we
see
maybe
an
organization
out
of
no
ill
will
or
ill
intent.
It's
just
a
lack
of
understanding
of
the
profession,
maybe
advertise
for
a
job
with
the
title.
Art
therapist,
but
the
only
requirements
is
a
bachelor's
degree
or
you
know
I've
had
conversations
with
individuals
who
maybe
work
in
a
acute
inpatient
psychiatric
who
say:
oh
yeah,
I
love
art.
M
I
do
art
therapy
with
my
patients
when
maybe
it's
just
a
nursing
tech,
and
so
it's
not
that
we
want
to
take
away
the
use
of
art
in
those
situations.
It's
more
the
title
of
art
therapy
and
kind
of
what
that
represents,
and
so
the
misdemeanor
comes.
You
know
from
that
title
protection.
It's
just
solely
the
use
of
the
title:
art
therapy.
E
B
Jiren
boyd,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
and
sponsor
I,
your
passion
for
this
comes
through,
and
I
and-
and
I
appreciate
your
your
lengthy
explanation
of
it
of
it
earlier
and
it
sounds
like
art
therapy
has
been
used
in
tennessee
to
help
people
that
are
victims
of
trauma
and
just
in
all
kinds
of
different
applications,
and
I
hope
to
see
it
continue
to
be
used.
B
I
am
afraid,
though,
that
trying
to
take
something
like
art
that
is
used
by
so
many
different,
counselors
and
and
practitioners,
and
and
trying
to
license
it
and
contain
it,
I'm
afraid
it
may
actually
have
the
the
opposite
effect,
I'm
afraid
less
people,
I
think
of
my
wife's,
a
guidance
counselor,
and
I
think
about
her.
B
I
mean
if
she
hears
about
this,
my
guess
is
she's,
probably
going
to
be
so
timid
so
that
she
probably
won't
use
it
even
in
the
application
that
I
was
just
describing
earlier,
and
so
I
probably
will
be
against
your
bill,
but
I
just
want
you
to
know
that.
I
I
and
I
understand
the
spirit
of
what
you're
trying
to
do.
B
I
I
just
don't
think
we
didn't
need
another
license
here
in
the
state
of
tennessee
and
it
seems
like
the
the
purpose
of
it,
is
more
to
to
get
federal
funding
or
to
get
insurance
reimbursement,
and
I'm
just
not
sure
that
that's
necessary.
At
this
point,
I
think
that
art
is
being
used
by
a
lot
of
different
professionals
and
I
hope
to
see
it
continue
to
be
used.
A
And
you
can
look
at
the
the
fiscal
review
on
it.
They
said
there
will
be
no
significant
infractions,
there's.
No,
they
didn't
put
a
figure
on
any
kind
of
income
from
misdemeanors
because
they
don't
expect
there
to
be
any,
and
I
think
we
have
to
guard
against
tennessee
becoming
a
a
state
that
buyer
beware.
A
I
mean
we.
We
we
license
real
estate,
we
license
insurance,
it's
all
for
a
purpose
and
it
it
establishes
a
legal
platform
for
for
the
citizens
to
get
what
they
expect
that
they're
paying
for
and
as
far
as
reimbursement.
A
A
They're
they're,
just
not
going
to
make
it
so
so
please,
in
the
future
of
this
stigma
of
licensing
is,
is
a
dangerous
situation.
I
mean
everything
everything
progresses
to
a
point
that
the
citizens
are
are
supposed
to
get
what
they
expect,
and
I
mean
even
anesthesiologists
that
I
think
that
wasn't
recognized
as
a
specialist
till
the
40s.
I
mean
everything
changes
everything
improves
everything
becomes
and
I
think
the
for
that
reason
we
need
to
focus
on
is
tennessee
going
to
be
a
buyer.
Beware:
state.
G
Thank
you.
I
I
kind
of
have
the
opposite
view
of
chairman
boyd,
when
someone
tells
me
that
they
are
a
licensed
professional
or
whatever
it
is,
and
this
one
has
to
be
art
therapy,
then
I
know
that
there
are
reasonable
standards
in
place
that
I
know
there's
a
scope
of
practice
and
I
know
there's
education,
then
I'm
putting
my
mental
health
into
someone,
who's
a
licensed
professional
and
for
me,
I
have
certain
securities
with
that.
G
I've
put
I've
been
through
the
health
care
system
in
the
past
30
years,
where
I
have
been,
I've
placed
my
health
into
what
I
consider
people
that
are
professionals
that
have
continuing
education
that
have
contact
education
that
are
licensed
professionals
that
have
boards
that
have
standards
in
place.
I
find
great
comfort
in
that
as
a
as
someone
who's
seeking
help
either
physically
mentally.
G
So
I
think
this
is
a
a
very
good
step
forward
in
art
therapy
and
that
way
we
can
move
forward
in
a
profession.
That's
going
to
help
a
lot
of
people,
because
when
you
help
someone
with
mental
health,
it's
just
there's
no
one-size-fits-all.
We
have
to
have
more
branches.
So
thank
you.
I'll
be
supporting
your
bill.
E
If
we
have
no
further
questions
on
this,
I
think
you
know
I
have
some
concerns
on
with
this
and
we've
had
this
discussion
before,
but
if
there
are
no
objections,
I
like
to
call
the
question
on
this
and
let's
vote
on
this
bill.
Unless
you
have
any
further
comments,
no
no.
A
E
E
A
Ladies
and
gentlemen,
I
have
let
you
get
out
of
control
for
the
last
time,
so
please
pay
attention
here.
I'm
I
misspoke
the
committee
is
coming
in,
but
we
are
going
to
adjourn.
A
We're
going
to
recess
until
three
o'clock
tomorrow,
two
o'clock
tomorrow,
chairman
hulsey,
are
you
available
at
two
o'clock
tomorrow?
Are
you
going
to
work
out
and
build
those
muscles
up
for
tomorrow,
okay,
yeah,
okay,
thank
you,
sir.
We
will
recess
until
two
o'clock
tomorrow
same
room
or
no,
maybe
not
the
same
room.
What
room
would
it
be.
A
Let
me
let
me
make
make
a
correction
here:
we're
in
the
house
meeting
room
one,
not
two.
Tomorrow,
two
o'clock
house
meeting
room
one.