►
Description
House Corrections Sub Committee - March 15, 2022 - House Hearing Room 4
A
A
No,
we
want
to
get
out
of
here.
I
understand.
Okay,
all
right.
First
up,
then,
is
house
bill
number
2875
by
leader,
camper
leader,
camper
you're,
recognized.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
committee
members.
I
thank
you
for
that
motion
in
a
second
what
this
bill
does.
Mr
chairman,
for
the
last
three
years,
we've
been
working
with
tdoc
to
have
a
bill
where
women
who
are
incarcerated
and
are
pregnant
are
not
shackled
during
their
delivery.
So
we
are
trying
to
pass
legislation
to
make
sure
that
that
doesn't
happen
in
the
state
of
tennessee.
C
President
trump
passed
this
legislation
at
the
federal
level
in
2018
under
the
first
step
act.
This
bill
is
also
consistent
with
alex
model
policy,
saying
that
it
creates
dignity
for
incarcerated.
Women
specifically
finds
that
the
use
of
restraints
on
incarcerated
pregnant
people
may
be
extremely
dangerous
to
the
health
of
the
mothers
and
the
baby.
C
C
C
Like
I
said,
the
american
legislative
exchange
council,
the
federal
bureau
of
prisons,
u.s
marshals,
we
have
a
lot
of
support
for
this
type
of
legislation,
and
I've
worked
with
tdoc
for
the
last
three
years
to
get
it
in
a
position
in
a
posture
where
everyone
agrees
that
this
is
good
for
tennessee,
for
mothers
and
for
babies.
So
with
that,
I
would
hope
that
you
can
pass
this
bill
out
of
here
and
we
can
move
on
to
full
and
get
this
into
law.
A
B
Leader
I
appreciate
this-
I
mean
you
went
you
you've
worked
hard
on
this
there's
been
a
lot
of
parties
involved
in
this
I
have.
I
have
had
a
discussion
with
at
least
one
of
my
sheriffs
successfully.
I
was
able
to
reach
one
of
them
today,
even
this
last
moment,
and
that
was
intentional
because
I
wanted
to
to
check
with
them
today
on
today's
date
of
the
committee,
but
I
I
I
there
to
me,
there's
just
some
in
my
discussion
with
one
of
my
sheriffs.
He
he's
just
fearful
of
the
potential
liability.
B
I
get
it
and
I
understand
it,
but
still
there's
that
sliver
of
chance
and
opportunity
of
liability
to
come
back
on
on
on
my
county
or
counties
for
that
matter
again.
I
commend
your
effort,
but
I
I'll
be
going
down
on
it,
but
I
just
wanted
to
go
ahead
and
and
take
a
moment
to.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
time
and
and
attention
on
this.
Thank
you
very
much
and,
mr
chairman,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
and
also
before
we
go
any
further.
You
had
an
untimely
filed.
Amendment
doesn't
guarantee
that
the
committee
will
will
put
it
on
because
it's
untimely
filed,
but
do
you
still
want
that
because
go
ahead?
I.
C
Do,
mr
chairman,
I
didn't
realize
it
was
on
time
to
file.
This
is
the
approved
language
that
I
work
with
tdoc
on
so
okay.
A
C
D
D
I
think
this
is
an
important
issue
if
I
could,
because
I
just
want
to
make
sure
we
get
this
on
the
record,
because-
and
I
realize
we're
not
looking
this
amendment
now
but
was
just
trying
to
get
clarification-
that
if
I
could
from
legal
that
essentially
there's
written,
there
was
some
sort
of
confusion
I
think
being
going
around-
that
maybe
handcuffs
would
not
be
allowed
anymore
or
something
in
the
legislation.
I
just
want
to
clarify
that.
That's.
A
E
You,
mr
chairman,
representative
paul,
could
you
ask
your
question
again?
I'm
not
sure
I
followed.
D
So
there
was
some
basically
information
saying
that
if
passed,
this
bill
would
not
allow
for
the
use
of
handcuffs
anymore.
Can
you
confirm,
if
that's
the
case.
E
I
believe
in
the
the
situation
that
is
trying
to
be
addressed
here
when
a
prisoner
is
pregnant,
then
that
that
definitely
could
be
the
case
that,
because
it
says
that
no
restraints
can
be
used
and
in
the
definition
of
restraint,
hard
metal
handcuffs
is
part
of
that
definition.
D
Okay,
so
I
just-
and
I
think
I
appreciate
that
I
guess
we
can
go
back
to
the
session.
Mr
chairman,
that
answers
my
question
from.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
members
representative
kiesling.
I
understand.
E
Thank
you.
So
the
the
bill
says
that
a
correctional
institution
should
not
use
restraints
on
a
prisoner
or
detainee
known
to
be
pregnant.
Unless
the
corrections
official
makes
an
individualized
determination
that
the
prisoner
or
detainee
presents
an
extraordinary
circumstance
that
dictates
the
use
of
restraints
to
ensure
the
safety
and
security
of
the
prisoner
or
detainee.
C
Ahead,
all
right,
I
thought
you
came
back
in
with
jeremy.
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
so
representative.
I
understand
your
concern
about
your
sheriff's
and
and
and
their
concern,
except
I
just
learned
that
when
I
walked
in
this
room
and
I'm
a
little
upset
about
it,
which
is
how
I
probably
came
off
the
way
I
did
initially
because
I
felt
blindsided
by
that,
but
I
get
it
they
feel
that
way.
But
let
me
just
tell
you
about
some
liability.
C
We
just
recently
had
a
lawsuit
from
a
woman
who
was
delivering
and
they
had
her
shackled
for
over
six
hours.
She
ended
up
with
a
blood
clot,
so
that's
costing
the
state
money,
not
this
potential
liability
that
we
believe
might
be.
This
is
something
that
actually
happened
in
the
state
of
tennessee,
so
I
get
they
may
have
their
opposition.
C
I
believe
that
what
this
committee
could
do
is
we
could
pass
it
to
full.
I
can
work
with
them
on
an
amendment
that
they
may
be
agreeable
to,
because
I
never
had
a
chance
to
talk
to
them
about
it
until
I
walked
in
this
room,
and
so
if
this
committee
could
work
with
me
on
that
I'll
park
it
in
full.
If
I
cannot
address
their
issues,
but
you
are
saying
the
u.s
marshals,
don't
have
a
problem
with
this
and
there
are
so
many
other
credible
organizations
that
don't
have
a
problem
with
this.
C
A
C
A
Thank
you
leader.
Is
there
any
representative
or
chairman
littleton.
A
A
All
right
we're
out
of
session.
Mr
bledsoe,
would
you
like
to
come
forward
and
you
can
either
stand
at
the
podium
or
you
can
take
a
seat
and,
and
please
make
sure
your
mic
is
on
and
state
your
name.
Please.
G
Well,
first,
I
wasn't
aware
that
we
haven't
had
that
conversation
with
representative
camper,
and
I
apologize
for
that.
I
think
we
had
tried,
but
maybe
there
were
some
misses
on
making
that
connection,
but
one
of
the
things
that
has
stood
out
to
us
that
we
always
teach
our
jail
staff.
Our
deputies
is
that
we
cannot
create
a
deliberate
indifference
in
a
jail
environment
in
which
we
treat
one
inmate
different
than
another
inmate.
G
And
if
we
take
certain
diagnosis,
medical
confirmation
say
a
pregnancy
in
this
occasion
and
we
use
that
and
treat
that
inmate
differently
than
we
do
another
inmate
that
may
have
a
bad
back
or
a
bad
leg.
Then
we
create
a
deliberate
indifference
at
that
point.
So
we
have
concerns
with
that
as
we
move
forward
with
it.
G
But
our
duty
of
sheriff's
is
to
protect
all
and,
as
you
look
at
restraints
and
go
back
for
centuries,
the
restraints
are
used
just
to
limit
that
movement
and
exposure,
and
even
people
that
are
cuffed
have
been
known
to
overpower
staff
and
take
their
weapons.
And
so
every
time
we
go
outside
the
facility
with
anyone.
That's
in
custody,
we're
taking
a
risk
of
what
that
could
entail
and
sheriffs
do
not
have
the
staff
that
u.s
marshals
have
or
perhaps
tdoc
has.
G
We
may
have
one
deputy
that
can
cover
a
transport
for
a
medical
appointment,
an
evaluation
or
a
court
appearance
once
they
get
in
court.
We
usually
have
bailiffs
and
more
security
in
the
courtroom
or
detention
facility
or
area
within
the
jail,
but
it
but
upon
those
movements
and
transfers.
It's
that's
where
those
risks
can
surface
and
just
because
an
inmate's
pregnant
does
not
mean
they're
incapacitated
and
we
do
not
know
what's
in
everyone's
mind
as
to
what
their
attempts
or
their
actions
could
be.
G
We
have
to
prepare
for
the
worst
and
hope
for
the
best
and
restraints
help
us
to
protect
ourselves
to
protect
the
inmate.
If
we're
transporting
multiple
inmates-
and
one
is
not
cuffed
because
of
this
becomes
law
and
they
decide
to
assault
another
inmate
because
they
are
free
to
do
so,
then
we're
responsible
and
liable
for
that.
G
One
of
the
things
that
we
always
did
when
I
was
sheriff
is
we
have
our
medical
team,
not
every
jail.
Has
that
we're
talking
about
jails?
It
may
have
one
or
two
deputies
that
that
care
for
the
jail
and
the
inmates
and
and
the
other
staff-
that's
there.
G
But
we
have
our
medical
team
evaluate
the
person
and
if
they
have
difficulty
walking
or
they're
having
a
difficult
pregnancy,
then
we
would
put
them
in
a
wheelchair,
or
we
had
a
gurney
in
our
facility
too,
that
we
could
put
them
on
and
wheel
them
to
where
they
needed
to
go.
We
could
put
a
wheelchair
in
the
car
and
wheel
them
into
court
or
medical
appointments
and
there's
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
we
can
do
outside
of
just
saying:
don't
do
this
because
of
certain
situations.
G
That's
happened
and
I
spoke
to
one
sheriff
and
I
don't
think
we've
heard
the
whole
story
on
the
the
one
female
that
he
had
to
shackle
to
a
four
seat
bench.
He
used
two
shackles
so
that
she
had
an
extended
movement.
She
wasn't
just
tied
to
a
chair
and
the
reason
he
did
that
because
he
does
not
have
a
facility
that
houses
females
and
when
this
female
kept
violating
probation
for
testing
positive
on
drug
screens.
G
The
judge
ordered
her
into
custody
and
no
other
jail
that
he
normally
deals
with
would
take
the
inmate
because
she
had
a
high
risk
pregnancy
because
of
drug
use.
So
he
had
to
keep
her
in
his
facility
without
a
holding
cell
for
and
the
previous
pregnant
inmate
that
he
had
that
he
did
not
shackle
to
anything,
went
into
a
side.
Room
took
a
light,
bulb
broke,
it
slit
her
wrist
and
then
they
had
to
care
for
her
and
all
the
bills
and
get
her
to
some
mental
health
therapy
and
everything
so
based
upon
him.
G
Knowing
there's
a
risk
for
not
detaining
her
and
or
restraining
her
in
a
certain
way,
he
had
to
do
that
to
limit
his
liability,
but
she
had
movement.
She
could
stand,
she
could
walk.
She
had
what's
called
a
boat
or
a
plastic
type,
large
tray
that
a
mattress
pad
goes
in,
so
she
had
accommodations
or
whatever
the
facility
could
supply.
She
just
didn't
have
an
isolated
area
that
they
could
confine
her
in.
G
But
we
have
those
inmates
that
could
not
be
outside,
because
the
we've
seen
that
they
are
they're
still
using
drugs,
narcotics
and
they're
doing
things
they
shouldn't
do
and
they're
not
only
placing
themselves
at
harm
but
they're,
placing
the
unborn
child
unborn
child
at
risk.
So
therefore,
the
court
intercedes-
and
we
we
do
our
best
then
to
to
make
sure
that
they're,
safe
in
our
jail
environment.
G
It's
going
to
depend
upon
the
leadership
that
they
have
representative
moon.
I
I
couldn't
speak
on
behalf
of
all.
I
just
know
that
we've
we've
studied
this,
and
our
legislative
committee
gave
us
a
position
on
it,
just
based
upon
the
restrictions
that
they
have
with
staff,
but
policies
and
procedures
are
in
place
at
the
state
level.
G
We
have
standards
of
care
with
tci
and
with
the
jail
environment
and
how
we
treat
everyone
and
we're
doing
our
best
to
keep
them
safe,
and
we
wouldn't
put
anyone
at
risk
that
couldn't
walk
or
a
potential
fall
with
with
shackles
or
putting
chains
or
a
waste
chain
on
them
to
where
they
couldn't
catch
themselves
and
we'd
have
extra
escorts
with
them.
If
we
can,
or
we
would
use
that
chair
or
the
gurney.
G
G
Why
is
this
person
in
custody
and
we
would
see
if
there
are
risks
to
for
flight
or
to
escape
some
of
them?
We
have
such
a
hard
time
even
getting
them
in
custody
that
if
they
do
have
that
least
little
opportunity.
We
think
that
there's
going
to
be
a
potential
attempt
to
escape
and
a
lot
of
times
those
can
be
pre-planned
or
pre-arranged
if
they
know
they're
going
outside
the
facility.
That
is
our
most
dangerous
point
is
once
we
don't
have
them
inside
the
facility
for
control
and
security
measures
and
they
go
outside.
G
That's
where
we've
we've
had
deputies
overpowered
before
they'll
plan
to
have
someone
there
waiting
for
them
over
the
years
that
I've
seen.
But
I've
looked
at
our
training
and
from
a
national
perspective,
and
I've
found
no
material
that
that
guides
us
on
this,
and
if
it
were
an
issue,
I
believe
our
state
leadership
that
does
our
jail
training
and
our
standards
and
our
our
sheriff's
associations
I'm
a
part
of
the
national
sheriff's
association.
G
We
would
already
be
addressing
those
and
working
with
it
and
we're
not
opposed
to
sitting
down
with
rep
representative
camper
and
seeing
what
there
is
to
to
come
together
on
this,
because
I
think
sheriffs
now
aren't
putting
shackles
on
them.
But
that's
there's
nothing
that
says
you
can't
and
then
it
would
depend
upon
the
physical
capabilities
of
the
person.
D
G
D
G
There
were
some
exclusions
in
it,
but
they
they
were
at
a
much
higher
level
to
where.
Basically,
if
you
didn't
have
those
on
the
checklist
you
you
would
need
to
take
the
shackles
off
or
no
restraints
with
the
like
the
waist
belt,
with
the
cuffs
going
through
it
which
restricts
the
movement.
So
it
would,
it
would
limit
what
you
can
do
and
and-
and
we
just
know
from
our
training
and
years
of
experience,
that
those
transfers
and
those
transports
outside
the
facility
are
the
the
highest
risk
not
only
to
our
staff
but
to
everyone.
D
Okay-
and
I
guess
we
are
testimony
about
the
the
federal
you
know,
recommendations
that
have
been
made
and
then
also
I
know
the
state
has
been
working
on
that
I
mean.
Wouldn't
you
look
for
best
practices
at
the
the
federal
and
the
state
level,
and
then
you
know
if
they're
saying
that
this
isn't
necessary.
Why
is
it
so
different
for
local
jails.
G
Well,
what
I've
looked
at-
and
I
highly
respect
our
federal
and
especially
our
state
partners
with
tdoc-
is
that
we
do
not
have
the
resources
that
they
have.
If
you-
and
you
really
would
be
surprised
that
if
you
go
across
tennessee
what
resources
one
jail
may
have
versus
another
and
like
this
one
jail,
I
was
talking
about
where
they
had
to
shackle
the
female.
They
have
14
beds
in
their
jail.
G
So
they
are
a
very,
very
small
facility
in
small
county
and
they're,
probably
fortunate
if
they
have
one
deputy
that
can
schedule
that
transport
to
where
they
can
get
the
person
there
on
time,
based
upon
all
the
other
duties
that
they
do.
But
but
I
would
say,
based
upon
what
the
state
and
federal
government's
doing
they're
just
at
a
much
higher
level,
with
their
their
resources
or
their
funding
than
what
some
of
our
counties
can
handle
it.
They
have
more
resources,
they
could
probably
put
two
deputies
on
each
transport,
but
there's
still
a
vast
number.
B
You
chairman
and
chairman
moon,
brought
a
question
to
the
director
just
a
few
moments
ago
that
little
bub
light
pub.
I'm
I'm.
I
serve
a
county
that
their
jail
director
hasn't
been
certified
since
1969.
B
It's
unbelievable,
but
that's
my
understanding
of
the
can
you
and
it-
and
I
assure
you
chairman,
this
is
indirectly
related
to
the
bill.
So
I'm
trying
to
stay
on
the
bill,
but
can
you
can
you
tell
us
how
many
does
tci?
How
many
are
not
certified?
I
On
on
the
decertified
jails
that
that
that
kind
of
it's
another
light
bulb
came
on
there,
how
would
that
affect
if,
if
there
was
a
lawsuit
or
something
like
that,
I
mean
if
the
jail
and
our
situation
is
pretty
similar?
Ours
has
not
been
certified
in
over
20
years.
I
G
From
my
experience,
it's
just
based
upon
what
you're
decertified
for,
if
you
have
sound
policy
and
procedures
that
mirror
what
the
standards
are
and
then
on
these
transports
or
restraints
and
movement
within
the
facilities
or
outside
the
facility.
Then
we're
going
to
be
in
good
standing
if
we're
challenged
legally,
but
it
would
depend
upon
what
their
their
violations
or
what
those
rules
were,
that
decertified
them
and-
and
I
think
we'd
be
good
if
they
had
the
right
standards
in
place
or
the
policy
procedures
following
them.
Yep.
I
In
in
the
case
of
overcrowding
and
and
inadequate
staffing,
would
that
would
that
increase
the
liability.
G
From
my
experience,
it
would-
and
I
dealt
with
that-
the
whole
time
that
I
was
sheriff.
That
was
the
the
area
division
that
I
had
the
most
vacancies
in
and
we
would
just
have
to
make
sure
that
everyone
was
doing
their
jobs
and
making
everything
as
far
as
the
standards
are
concerned
and
going
above
them
where
we
could
to
show
that.
But
I
think
it
could
potentially,
if
you
do
not
have
the
staff
to
make
security
checks
and
you're
skipping
on
things
or
cutting
corners.
I
One
just
one
one
other
thing:
I
just
texted
my
the
chief
jailer
back
home
and
they
have
one
pregnant
inmate
currently
at
in
the
jail
they
don't
shackle.
They
they
do
handcuff
in
front
when
they're
doing
their
when
they're
moving
them
from
one
location.
To
the
other
and-
and
also
I
you
know,
I,
I
guess
my
thing
and
and
I.
C
I
I
guess
more
of
a
thought
than
anything
is
you
know?
If
are
we
creating
more
of
a
problem
than
we
really
have
in
in
in
the
department
of
corrections
and
in
in
their
local
I'm
worried
about
the
local
jails?
I
come
from
a
local
background
and
they
they
struggle
every
day.
You
know,
so
I
don't
want
to
see
something,
that's
going
to
create
a
greater
hardship
for
on
them.
I
Nor
do
I
want
to
see
an
inmate
mistreated
or
anything
like
that,
and-
and
I
appreciate
the
fact
that
my
that
my
chief
jailer,
just
she
ca-
and
she
cares
enough
that
you
know
that.
I
think
that
they're
very
aware
of
that,
and
I
I
would
hope
and
think
that
all
the
jails
would
be.
But
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Chairman.
A
Any
other
questions
for
a
witness
all
right,
sir.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
time.
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
all
right
we're
back
in
session
any
other
questions
for
the
sponsor
of
the
bill.
Representative
powell.
D
A
J
J
You
chairman,
tori
grimes
senior,
council
and
legislative
liaison
for
the
department
of
correction,
and
forgive
me
I
didn't
really
come
prepared
to
speak
about
the
bill
as
originally
filed.
We
we
did
have
some
concerns
with
the
original
bill
and
that
kind
of
prompted
us
to
to
to
discuss
those
concerns
with
the
with
the
leader
and
and
ultimately,
I
guess
the
untimely
filed
amendment
was
the
the
the
language
that
we
were
comfortable
with.
J
We
felt
like
it
captured
our
current
practice
and
you
know
everything
that
we
do
in
correction
is
driven
by
the
inmates,
custody
and
classification
level.
We
felt
like
the
exceptions
that
were
built
in
in
what
we
had
agreed
upon,
actually
really
kind
of
captured
what
we
were
already
doing.
We,
we
don't
shackle
inmates
we
we,
we
don't
shackle
inmates,
we
don't
restrain
an
inmate
during
the
giving
birth.
J
You
know
we
have
about
25
to
30
inmates
a
year
that
either
come
to
department
of
correction
to
give
birth
and
then
go
back
to
the
county
or
you
get
an
inmate
coming
back
on
a
parole
violation,
but
typically
there's
only
three
to
five
inmates
annually
that
are
true
department
of
correction
inmates,
so
the
most
of
what
we
get
are
under
the
safe
keeping
statute
that
allows
the
locals
to
commit
that
inmate
to
the
custody
department
of
correction,
and,
I
believe,
sheriff
bledsoe
director
bledsoe
actually
referenced
that
that
the
the
the
sheriff
can
go
to
the
judge
and
seek
an
order
in
that
regard.
J
But,
typically
you
know
we
have
designated
persons
all
those
inmates
are
held
here
at
the
deborah
johnson
correctional
facility
here
in
nashville,
and
you
know
the
transport
and
those
concerns
we're
not
going
to
have
cha
the
the
challenges
that
the
local
facilities
have.
Quite
frankly,
it
may
be
the
same
correctional
officers
carrying
all
of
these
pregnant
females
to
the
hospital
to
give
birth.
Because
that's
what
we
do
we're
going
to
partner,
we
do
partner
with
mahari
and
nashville
general
absent
an
extraordinary
circumstance.
J
All
of
all
these
inmates
give
birth
at
the
hospital
in
an
appropriate
setting
there.
So
I
hope
that
covers
kind
of
what
chairman
powell
had
asked
for.
J
Like
I
said,
it's
driven
by
custody
level
and-
and
you
know
to
be
real-
most
of
the
pregnant
females
we
have
are
going
to
be
the
lowest
custody
level.
So
and
because
of
that
absent
being
handcuffed
during
the
transport,
there's
there's
not
going
to
be
a
you
know.
J
They
may
be
at
the
hospital
without
any
restraints,
because
it's
driven
by
their
custody
classification
level-
and
I
don't
want
to
impute
that-
or
the
way
we
do
classification
is
is-
is-
is
equivalent
to
how
jails
do
it,
because
it's
not
because
typically
everything
we
do
in
the
department
of
correction
from
a
policy
and
procedure
standpoint
is
really
based
on.
You
know,
post
convicted
felons
that
are
serving
a
sentence.
D
Okay
and
sure,
if
I
could
and
then
to
your
knowledge
the
the
surrounding
states,
can
you
speak
to
their
policies?
Are
you
aware,
because
I
know
that
we're
told
that
these
other
states
aren't
using
shackles
why
this
we
might
be
different
in
the
state
of
tennessee
needing
this.
J
J
D
D
A
Difference
too
is
department.
Corrections
has
access
to
a
whole
lot
of
things,
the
sheriff's
department.
Doesn't
they
have
setups
even
in
the
hospital
where
you're
going
to
give
birth,
that
with
the
security
system,
that's
better
than
what
a
jail's
got
absolutely
I
I
was
troubled
by
the
language
little
some
of
the
language
in
the
bill
that
says
individualized,
determination
from
an
officer.
If
you
would
get
somebody
in
and
have
a
history,
a
jail
can
get
somebody
in
in
two
days
and
not
have
any
history
on
them.
A
A
Any
other
questions
for
the
witness
well.
Thank
you,
sir
very
much.
I
appreciate
your
time
all
right,
we're
back
in
session
leader.
I
I
want
to
tell
you
that
I
believe
the
the
jail
association
and
sheriff's
association
be
more
than
happy
to
work
out
a
bill
that
they're
happy
with
and
that
you're
happy
with.
A
If,
if
you
could
consider
working
on
that,
but
I'm
just
telling
you
yes,
ma'am.
C
Thank
you,
mr.
I
got
to
feel
I
got
that
feeling
too
and
that's
why
I
was
asking
the
committee
if
they
were
willing
to
work
with
me,
which
he
said
he
was
that
if
we
passed
it
out
and
got
it
to
full
and
it
didn't
work,
this
is
yours
last
calendar
calendar,
then
we
will
park
it
there,
and
and-
and
so
I
mean
I'm
willing
to
work
with
him.
A
That
I
was,
I
was
thinking
more
in
terms
of
you
if,
if
you
met
with
them
later
and
worked
on
it,
but
your
suggestions
up
to
the
committee
go
ahead.
F
Do
you
so
if
we
rolled
her
and
let
her
work
on
this
with
the
sheriff's
association,
but
I
think
we're
all
in
agreement
that
the
county
jails
are
much
different
from
the
prisons,
so
there
are
going
to
be
times
that
they're
going
to
have
to
be
shackled
like
trent
in
transportation,
and
we
all
know
that
when
you
know
if
you're
having
a
baby
I've
had
four
babies,
you
don't
need
shackles
because
you're
not
going
anywhere.
So
maybe
we
could
exactly
worse
than
that.
F
But
anyway,
I
think
if
we,
if
she
could
work
with
them
and
try
and
come
up
with
something
about
no
shackles
in
delivery
which
there's
no
need
for
them
and
but
transportation
is
totally
different.
You
know
if
they're
wanting
to
run,
I
mean
you,
don't
know
where
they're
going
to
go,
what
they're
going
to
do
just
like
we
don't
know
their
history,
so
handcuffs
for
sure
shackles.
When
they're,
when
they're
being
transported
back
and
forth
I
mean
maybe
if
you
could
just
come
up
with
something
like
that
I'd
be.
A
C
Well,
I
can't
say
yes
or
no,
because
I
don't.
I
need
to
talk
with
them,
because
that
could
be
something
else
that
they're
concerned
about
too
and
if
that's
something
they
would
want
me
to
amend
out
I'm
willing
to
work
with
them
on
that
and
if
there's
something
that
the
committee
or
anybody
any
other
stakeholder,
I'm
willing
to
work
with
them.
I've
been
working
on
the
three
years
and
it
just
hadn't
come
up.
So
I'm
not
against
that.
You
know
per
se.
I
appreciate
you
bringing
it
up.
D
But
I
have
a
question:
if
we
do
that
and
we,
if
we
don't
finish
the
calendar
and
we're
able
to
take
this
up,
if
we
again
at
a
later
date,
are
we
able
to
reconsider
our
action
on
the
untimely
filed
amendment
if
we
do
as
a
committee,
we
do
finish
today
and
we
want
to
get
this
out
of
here,
because
I
think
I
mean
at
the
very
least
at
least
there
was
something
worked
out
with
the
department
of
corrections
and
then,
if
she's,
given
her
word,
that
she's
not
going
to
move
this
bill
out,
is
that
something
we
would
possibly
could
reconsider.
D
D
A
I
think
we
could
work
through
that,
okay,
but
well,
but
not
prior
to
rolling
it
to
the
heel.
Okay,.
A
A
K
Go
ahead
all
right!
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
So
this
bill
has
to
deal
with.
Doulas
and
doulas
are
non-medical
emotional
and
physical
support
people
for
for
pregnant
people.
This
bill
is
entirely
permissive
and
td
oc
is
already
exploring
ways
to
incorporate
doulas
into
their
facilities.
K
This
bill
encourages
that
we
work
that
that
we
work
and
allows
prisons
and
local
jails,
the
flexibility
to
create
standards
and
protocols
unique
to
their
community
communities
and
if,
if
and
when
doulas
can
be
helpful
for
their
populations,
people
who
we've
just
spent
a
long
time
about
people
giving
birth
in
tennessee
and
prisons,
and
often
jails
not
have
to
do
so
alone.
So
this
bill
would
allow
pregnant
incarcerated
women
to
have
the
support
of
a
trained
doula
at
the
discretion
of
the
correctional
facility.
So
doulas
are
not
specifically
midwives,
they
provide
support.
K
A
K
A
K
No
no
problem
because
the
amendment
does
make
the
bill,
so
I
I
both
slipped
through
both
of
us
on
that
all
right.
So
so
this
general
assembly
has
supported
legislation,
improving
the
support
for
pregnant
people
in
tennessee.
K
In
2020,
we
passed
prenatal
care
bill
with
the
support
of
many
of
our
members
that
prescribe
minimum
standards
for
pregnant
incarcerated
people.
In
2021
we
passed
recognition
bills,
recognition
recognizing
duelists
as
vital
members
of
childbirth
team.
With
this
bill,
we
can
continue
to
prove
circumstances
for
tennessee,
mamas
and
babies,
and
why
do
we
need
this
bill?
K
We
have
specifically
heard
from
people
that
work
with
pregnant
incarcerated
people,
including
free
hearts,
and
some
practicing
doulas
in
tennessee
they're,
giving
back
childbirth
alone,
because
those
who
would
normally
be
in
the
room
aren't
granted
facility
access
is
a
real
concern
that
pregnant
women
and
people
are
dealing
with
right
now.
This
bill
would
allow
these
people
to
have
access
to
have
the
opportunity
to
be
treated
with
dignity
during
childbirth
and
have
some
specifically
someone
specifically
advocating
for
their
concerns.
K
So
are
there
concerns
about
safety
and
hospital
staff?
I
think
we
just
went
through
that
with
the
other
bill
before
so
we
won't
be
laboring.
We
won't
go
through
all
that,
but
this
bill
is
entirely
permissive
and
it
gives
the
correctional
facilities
discretion
to
allow
pregnant
people
to
have
access
to
duelists
there
isn't.
There
is
not
a
physic
expected
to
be
any
associated
costs
with
this
bill,
and
this
bill
assumes
a
volunteer
doula
programs
like
the
ones
that
already
exist
in
other
states
and
with
that
committee
and
chairman.
That
is
my
explanation.
A
A
That's
all
right,
I
just
wondered.
Let
me
ask
you
a
question:
let's
say
that
a
a
doula
comes
in
and
goes
in
a
prison
setting
to
be
with
a
a
pregnant
inmate
on
pre-birth,
let's
say
two
three
weeks
before
before
birth
and
she
gets
assaulted
in
the
jail
or
into
prison
by
another
inmate
or
gets
hurt.
A
Who
who
pays
for
for
what
it's
going
to
take
to
to
treat
her
and
does
she
have
standing
for
a
suit
against
whatever
correctional
institution
she
was
in?
Do
you
know.
K
Well,
I
can't
I
can't
speak
to
that
particular
incident,
but
I'm
sure
there's
procedures
and
policies
and
we
might
get
asked
tdlc
of
how
they
protect
those
particular
people
and
give
them
the
access
that
they,
the
programs
that
they
have
now
how
it
would
continue
to
be
in
place.
Because,
right
now
they
granted
the
appropriate
facility
access
and
I'm
not
sure.
I
cannot
speak
to
tdoc's
protection
security
security
protections
and
how
they
do
that.
H
J
Hey
chairman
tori
grimes
tlc
senior
council
on
legislative
liaison,
we're
neutral
on
the
bill,
because
it
is
permissive
I
think,
from
a
from
a
programmatic
perspective.
Some
of
our
you
know.
Rehabilitation
folks
were
interested
in
in
mapping
out
what
a
program
would
look
like,
and
so
we're
not
there
yet.
But
there
are
several
surrounding
states
alabama,
specifically
that
do
have
similar
programs
and
typically
at
least
kind
of
how
we
potentially
would
envision
it
would
be.
J
It
would
be
consistent
with
what
our
normal
volunteer
programs
are
and
to
chairman
moon's
point
volunteers
in
the
prison
system
by
statute
are
considered
state
employees
for
purposes
of
filing
a
claim
in
the
claims
commission.
So
that
would
be
their
remedy.
If
the
inmate
say
say
they
say
that
inmate
assaulted,
a
volunteer
that
volunteer
would
then
have.
I
think,
a
mistake
of
that
they're,
a
state
employee
for
purposes
of
their
volunt
to
the
extent
they're
volunteers.
So
the
remedy
is
the
claims
commission.
J
B
You
thank
you
thank
you
chairman
and
not
necessarily
a
question
again,
I'm
going
back
over
there
in
that
direction.
Looking
specifically
at
those
two
gentlemen,
chairman's
moon
and
eldritch,
I
mean
we're
chairman
dixie
until
I
I'm
assured
that
our
local
local
jail
would
not
be
liable
for
anything,
and
I
I
can't
support
this.
B
I
just
can't
because
of
that
that
sliver
of
liability
sure
I
know
it's
permissive,
I
get
it,
but
still
I
just
I
just
have
that
fear,
because
I
I
represent
rural
tennessee,
just
as
rural
as
you
can
get
and
and
our
budgets
are
just
well
paper
thin.
I
I'm
just
I
just
have
I
you
know.
I
just
have
a
concern
so
with
that
and
I
and
I
know
you
can
appreciate
that
so
with
that
I'll
leave
it.
B
K
Like
we
to
talk
about
the
the
liability
that
we
have
in
here,
I
think
we
have
to
go
back
to
the
to
the
to
the
definition.
It's
a
volunteer.
We
already
have
volunteer
programs
in
prisons,
so
I
mean
this
would
extend
to
if
your
concern
would
extend
to
the
prison
ministry
when
a
lawyer
comes
in
there
when
they
have
all
this
stuff,
so
there's
already
protections
and
procedures
in
place.
K
A
Yes,
sir
you're
recognized.
Thank
you,
mr.
I
I
And
I
think
that
that
the
liability
is
very
hyphened
in
a
situation
like
that,
and-
and
I
you
know,
I
feel
like
that-
we
would
be
putting
ourselves-
I
don't
you
know,
I
know
we
have
a
couple
of
guys
that
goes
in
and
and
and
holds
a
service
with
the
inmates
on
sunday
morning,
but
I
mean
we
got.
We
got
people
laying
in
the
hall.
I
I
just
you
know.
I
feel
like
we're,
opening
the
door
for
for
more
issues
there
and
and
I'm
I
I
just
can't
help
but
be
I'm.
You
know
I'm
more
from
county
government
and
I
just
see
what
the
problems
have
been
in
the
past
there
and
I
know
t
you
know
we
talked
about,
you
know
the
department
of
corrections
and
they
got
a
heck
of
a
lot
bigger
budget.
You
know
so
that's
my
concern.
K
K
So
we
need
to
make
sure
that
they
have
the
support
staff
so
that
at
least
that
baby
can
get
off
to
some
sort
of
equal
standing
and
put
in
a
familiar
situation
with
with
people
they
know,
and
they
understand
so
that
child
be
taken
care
of
until
that
person
is
released
from
whether
it's
a
jail
or
it's
a
prison.
I
think
that's
incumbent
upon
us,
as
the
gut
as
the
government
to
do
that.
So
I
I
have
to
go
back
to
keep
saying
that.
K
So
we
can't
pick
and
choose
when
when
it
when
it's
available
for
us,
we
have
to
make
a
blanket
sheet
for
all
and
let's
be
fair
about
what
we're
doing
this,
and
let's
also
consider
there's
an
innocent
child
that
is
starting
a
life
in
prison
in
jail.
And
how
do
we
make
sure
that
they
that
child
doesn't
end
up
in
the
circle
of
violence
and
get
our
circle
of
influence
and
get
back
into
prison?
D
Thank
you,
and
I
appreciate
those
sentiments
I
think
you
know,
and
I
appreciate
my
colleagues
represent
rural
districts.
D
I
just
want
to
you
know
I'll
represent
a
urban
district
here
in
nashville,
and
I
do
think
that
we
have
the
capabilities
and
facilities,
and
so
I
would
say
this
is
simply
a
permissive
bill
that
would
allow
those
places
that
might
want
to
offer
these
services
the
ability
to
do
so,
and
you
know
I
think,
and
and
I'm
fortunate
to
have
two
young
children-
and
you
know
I
know
other
families
that
have
used
doulas
and
feel
comfortable
with
with
doulas,
and
it
helps
the
pregnancy
and
they
can
be
very
beneficial,
and
so
anything
we
can
do.
D
I
think,
to
encourage
safety,
health
and
wellness
of
a
child
as
it
enters
this
world
is
something
we
should
strongly
consider
and
and
and
really
lift
up
as
an
option,
and
so,
while
I
know
that
this
might
not
be
feasible
in
some
of
the
rural
areas,
the
part
I
like
about
is
it
makes
it
permissive
so
that
in
certain
communities
and
places,
and
perhaps
at
the
state
level,
we
could
utilize
this
service.
D
You
know
and-
and
I
I
get
the
fear
of
lawsuit
lawsuits,
but
I
wouldn't
get
up
in
the
morning
if
I
was
so
afraid
of
lawsuits.
I'll
tell
you
that
so
you
know.
I
certainly
think
what
we
need
to,
though
focus
is
not
necessarily
on
the
lawsuits
and
the
liability,
but
on
protecting
children
when
they
enter
this
world.
So
I
appreciate
your
passion
for
this
and
bringing
this
legislation
and
hope
my
colleagues
will
look.
Look.
You
know,
consider
the
the
the
arguments
that
I've
made
and
vote
favorably
for
legislation.
Thank
you.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
just
in
closing,
if
there
aren't
any
more
questions,
but
I
do
want
to
con
you.
I
want
the
committee
to
consider
that
there
are
some
peoples.
Are
there
are
people
that
can
really
use
this
particular
did
this
disservice
right
here
and
if
it
can
help
one
or
two
babies
or
or
five
babies
or
500
babies.
K
I
think
we
should
not
take
any
option
off
the
table
just
because,
if
you
feel
like
it
may
not
work
in
your
your
particular
area,
I
think
there's
an
opportunity
that
it
can
help
the
masses,
and
I
think
that
we
should
look
at
it
from
100
000
foot
view
and
make
sure
that
we
understand
that
it
is
permissive
and
it
is
if
it
leaves
an
option
on
the
table
to
help
a
family.
Then
I
think
we
should
so
thank
you
with
that.
Mr
chairman,
I
close
all.
A
I
A
K
K
I
Father
or
somebody-
and
you
know,
I
know
we're
focusing
on
on
what
what's
good
for
the
child,
but
the
child
at
some
point
is
not
going
to
be
with
that
mom,
while
she's
incarcerated.
H
A
K
Say
again,
it's
permissive,
so
a
county
jail
can
use
it
if
they
want
to.
If
they
don't,
then
it's
okay,
but
that's
the
same,
but
don't
take
away
from
the
opportunities
even
like
in
davidson
county
jail,
that's
a
bigger
jail.
They
may
want
to
try
it,
but
in
your
county
they
may
not
want
to
try
it.
That's
why
it's
permissive.
So
I
say:
let's
give
it
a
try.
If
it
doesn't
work
or
if
it
has
some
issues,
then
we
can
always
come
back
and
fix
it
as
we
do.
K
A
A
L
A
A
L
One
of
those
is
that
I
did
place
a
restriction
of
50
minutes
of
outgoing
telephone
service
calls
for
juveniles
with
good
behavior,
and
instead
of
restricting
it
to
the
50
minutes,
there
are.
Some
of
our
departments
do
actually
go
over
the
50
minutes
in
some
cases.
At
this
point
right
now,
and
so
I
put
at
least
so
that
way,
it
does
not
stop
them
at
50
minutes.
L
The
other
addition
to
this
bill
language
is
that
this
section
does
not
apply
to
a
facility
or
a
department
of
corrections
or
a
contractor,
providing
correctional
services
if
the
facility
or
contractor
is
a
party
to
a
contract
for
the
provision,
and
so
until
that
contract
that
they
are
currently
in
completely
ends.
This
piece
of
legislation
does
not
go
into
effect
to
not
interfere
with
their
current
contracts,
so
the
fiscal
note
on
this
bill
would
increase
the
state
expenditures
by
3
600
in
the
next
fiscal
year
and
every
year
after
that,
for
the
dozens
of
children.
L
Currently
separated
from
their
families
while
awaiting
trial
inside
of
a
county,
juvenile
court
or
detention
center,
the
cost
of
calling
home
often
presents
a
barrier
to
keeping
in
touch
with
their
parents
the
fees
for
a
family
to
pay,
so
they
can
reach
their
children
and
receive
those
calls
can
translate
to
often
financial
stress.
Currently,
dcs
does
not
charge
for
those
calls.
L
Currently
at
the
dlc,
the
truck
they
charge
14
cents
per
minute
at
about
122
minutes
per
week
per
juvenile,
and
this
bill
would
cover
about
half
of
that
cost
for
the
juveniles
per
week.
Once
this
bill
was
placed
on
notice,
I
received
dozens
of
emails
and
a
few
phone
calls
from
people
in
support.
L
Currently
she
is
also
the
president
of
the
da's
conference.
She
taunts
that
we
in
shelby
county
have
some
of
the
lowest
recidivism
numbers,
and
so
a
lot
of
that
comes
for
some
of
the
policies
that
we've
put
in
place.
So
I'm
elated
to
be
able
to
carry
this.
This
bill
would
allow
for
a
juvenile
to
speak
to
a
member
of
clergy
as
well,
if
not
their
parent
or
guardian.
A
Well,
they're
thinking
I
have
one
it.
What
what
do
we
say
to
jail
with
the
with
an
unfunded
mandate
here
telling
them
that
they're
they're
going
to
provide
this
service
and
they're
not
going
to
be
reimbursed
for
it
if
they're
used
to
paying
14
cents
a
minute
or,
however,
the
contract
reads.
L
Yes,
so
basically,
this
would
basically
put
that
cost
onto
our
our
jails
to
have
to
fund
that
piece
of
allowing
the
juveniles
to
have
that
connection
with
their
parents,
while
they're
still
in
the
system
during
that
time,
and
so
so
that
does
not
get
covered
by
a
contract
in
any
kind
of
way
or
by
that
that
child,
okay.
L
Outgoing
calls
so
any
calls
that
come
in
receiving
from
a
parent.
Obviously
they
would
have
to
put
funds
on
the
books,
but
for
that
outgoing
call
during
that
time,
when
that
child
would
like
to
speak
to
their
when
they
had
that
a
lot
of
time,
that
is
given
permission
to
them
for
having
good
behavior
that
is
given
to
them
that
allows
them
to
make
those
phone
calls.
So
that's
what
this
is.
Okay,
but.
L
L
So
on
so
on,
every
call
that,
as
the
child
is
calling
out,
there's
somebody
on
the
other
side
on
the
initial
part,
just
to
make
sure
that
that
person,
who
is
that
they
are
speaking
to
is
somebody
that
is
on
the
list
for
them
to
speak.
To.
I
What
what
happens
when
that
or
I
mean
they're
not
going
to
be
on
the
call
the
entire
time?
So
what
happens
when
their
call
is
turned
over
to
somebody
else?
Maybe
you
know
a
friend
or
girlfriend
boyfriend.
Whatever
get
you
know
they,
you
know
mom's
called
in
and
and
talks
for
five
minutes,
and
then
they
turn
it
over
to
somebody
else.
I
mean
I
mean
that's
always
a
possibility.
L
So
I
believe,
that's
all
like
you
said
it's
always
a
possibility.
Currently,
I'm
sure
it's
a
possibility
right
now
in
the
current
policy,
so
I'm
not
really
sure
exactly
how
they
may
manage
that
currently.
But
I
I
didn't
address
that
in
this
bill.
I
The
facility
up
in
our
area-
currently
they
do
40
minutes,
you
know
it's
free
and
they
they
use
it
as
a
tool
for
good
behavior
and
all
if
you're,
if
you're
you
do
something
out
of
line
yeah,
you
know
they'll
deduct
10
minutes
or
they'll
deduct
five
depending
on
what
it
is.
They
use
it
as
as
as
a
something
for
to
promote
good
behavior
and
everything,
and
I
don't
I
don't
know
that
they
they
monitored
the
calls.
I
L
So
no,
this
does
not
restrict
who
they
speak
to
outside,
of
this
is
only
to
cover
the
cost
of
the
funds
for
the
conversations
between
them
and
the
actual
parent,
if
they
already
have
it
in
policy
to
allow
them
to
talk
to
just
anyone
that
they
would
like
to.
This
does
not
stop
them
from
doing
so.
This
bill
right
here
only
is
specific
for
good
behavior
juveniles
and
it
just
allots
the
50
minute
minimum.
So
I
I've
spoken
with
a
lot
of
different
jails,
and
so
they've
also
said.
L
The
same
thing
is
that
they
do
give
a
lot
more
and
a
lot
of
that
is
for
good
behavior,
and
so
obviously
that
feeds
into
what
this
one
is
as
well,
where
good
behavior
is
rewarded,
and
at
least
given
to
them
to
be
able
to
have
that
conversation
so
that
they,
when
they
get
out,
they
don't
feel
like
they
are
left
alone
and
that
they
don't
have
anyone
of
support.
So.
A
You
know
the
question
for
the
sponsor.
I
I
like
the
idea
I
mean
I
I
do
and
I
think
it's
important
that
that
you
maintain
communication.
I
I
I
have
a
little
heartburn
over
telling
the
jail
they're
going
to
do
it
and
spend
money,
we're
making
them
do
it
by
the
state,
even
though
it's
not
a
whole
lot.
Chairman
thank.
B
Jim
layman
is
here
with
deep
with
the
dcs,
but
I
don't
know
jim
and
I
chairman
I
haven't
spoken
with
with
the
folks
over
there.
This
does
apply,
I
think
too,
to
them.
What
would
you're
saying?
No
he's
saying?
Yes,
but
anyway,
would
I
be
out.
M
Good
afternoon,
chairman
in
committee,
my
name
is
jim
layman,
I'm
with
the
department
of
children's
services
happy
to
respond
to
chairman
keisling's
question.
If
you
like,
the
department
was
defer
on
this
legislation,
because
I
think,
as
the
sponsor
mentioned,
we
do
offer
free
phone
calls
to
the
use.
Now
that,
yes,
the
legislation
would
apply
to
the
department
of
children
services
because
of
the
the
ydc
that
we
operate,
but
we
would
defer
on
the
legislation,
because
we
offer
phone
calls
to
our
use
at
no
charge.
M
We
offer
you
know
we
allow
the
use
to
have
phone
calls
for
no.
A
M
The
typical
youth
would
get
five
thirty
minute
phone
calls
a
week
at
notre
dame
so.
B
Okay,
weekly,
based
on
goodbye,
I
take
it
good
behavior,
then
right
if
well,
if
they
get
out
of
line.
No
is
that
has
that
work.
M
It's
my
understanding
that
it
can
be
adjusted
for
behavior
that,
but
in
talking
with
our
deputy
commissioner
over
juvenile
justice,
that
the
goal
is
to
try
to
get
the
bulk
of
of
the
youth
to
have
that
five.
Thirty
minutes
just
to
keep
you
know
so
that
they
can
stay
in
contact
with
their
family
and
all
that.
Well,.
M
Haven't
asked
that
I
think
it's
typically
done
on
an
outbound
basis
on.
M
B
A
D
That's
right,
sorry,
can
you
speak
to
why
these
calls
are
allowed?
You
know-
and
I
don't
want
to
put
words
in
your
mouth
but
just
kind
of
the
mental
health
of
the
children,
the
ability
to
communicate
with
their
parents,
making
them
I'm
going
to
say
better
in
the
facilities.
But
can
you
speak
to
why
this
is
kind
of
a
best
practice
why
this
is
allowed.
M
Sure,
thank
you
representative,
happy
to
do
that.
As
far
as
someone
that's
been
at
the
department
of
children
services
for
three
months,
but
as
far
what
I
have
heard
from
our
deputy
commissioner
of
juvenile
justice
and
others
that
work
for
our
juvenile
justice
division
is
that
it,
the
the
policy,
is
in
place
just
to
ensure
that
ties
and
relationships
are
kept
with
family
members
and
and
that
kind
of
thing
that's
about
all.
I
can
speak
to.
You
know
that
it's
what's
good
for
the
youth
yeah,
so
yeah,
okay,.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
do
believe
that
the
parents
can
call
in
did
we
not?
We
did
discuss
that
as
well
and
I
do
think
the
phone
calls
are
used
they're
given
for
good
behavior
and
I
think,
maybe
taken
away
for
bad
behavior,
so
they're
kind
of
there
to
keep
the
conduct
and
the
discipline
up
as
well
right.
Good
discipline.
M
Yes,
yes,
thank
you,
chairman
and,
as
I
said
earlier,
and
I
think
as
the
sponsor
read
to
that
you
know,
our
actual
policy
on
paper
is
lower
than
the
the
five
thirty
minute
phone
calls
a
week.
But
you
know,
I
think
the
goal
for
most
of
our
use
is
that
that
five
30-minute
phone
calls
a
week.
But
yes
it
it
is
possible
to
you
know,
be
adjusted
for
behavior
and
that
kind
of
thing.
A
D
D
You
know
when
you
have
juveniles,
who
are
able
to
make
these
phone
calls
and
I
think,
help
them
to
continue
to
maintain
a
relationship
with
a
pam,
parent
or
family
member
that
helps
support
them
through
a
very
difficult
process,
hopefully
improves
our
recidivism
rate
in
the
state,
and
you
know,
essentially,
I
think,
makes
them
all
around
better
people,
as
is
the
you
know.
I
appreciate
what
was
just
said:
it
makes
them
happier
and
healthier.
You
know.
D
I
think
that
this
is
a
very
minimal
cost
and
you
know
something
that
in
the
long
run,
we
don't
factor
this
in,
but
as
the
savings
overall
to
the
state,
because
if
you
look
at
the
cost
of
this
and
you
compare
that
to
just
one
or
two
incarcerated
individuals-
that's
thousands
upon
thousands
of
dollars
that
we're
paying.
So
you
know
this
is
a
small
thing
to
to.
In
my
opinion,
ultimately
save
millions
upon
millions
of
dollars
by
just
allowing
the
simple
policy
change,
so
I
commend
you
for
bringing
this
hope.
D
A
A
All
right
we're
on
house
bill
6,
which
is
2610,
who
has
been
taken
off
notice,
not
who
has
the
bill,
has
been
taken
off
notice.
A
A
A
N
Much
the
amendment
makes
the
bill
and
what
we
are
seeking
to
do.
If
you'll
recall,
post-certified
officers,
law
enforcement
officers
across
the
state
complete
in-service
each
year
and
as
a
part
of
that
in-service,
they
receive
a
salary
supplement
of
800
correctional
officers
in
our
local
county
jails
do
not
receive
any
type
of
salary
supplement.
Now
they
are
required
to
complete
in-service
training
each
and
every
year,
and
so
what
we
are
hoping
to
do
is
put
this
800
training
supplement
in
for
correctional
officers.
N
Now
I
can
tell
you,
as
a
former
correctional
officer
in
my
local
sheriff's
department,
where
I
started
in
2010,
my
pay
hourly
pay
was
less
than
nine
dollars
an
hour.
State
averages
are
roughly
twelve
dollars
and
fifty
cents
right
now.
We
are
looking
for
ways
to
keep
correctional
officers
in
the
jail.
N
We've
heard
a
lot
of
testimony
already
on
different
bills
that
dealt
with
correctional
officers
so
far,
and
and
so
we
certainly
want
to
make
sure
that
we
don't
have
shortages,
even
though
that
may
happen
from
time
to
time,
but
we
want
to
to
bring
this
supplement
forth.
There
is
some
criteria
that
has
to
be
met.
N
They
have
to
be
in
full,
they
have
to
be
employed
at
least
eight
full
months
in
order
to
be
eligible
for
that
and
go
through
the
tci
training
that
is,
that
is
mandated
and
if
they
have
to
complete
their
40-hour
in
service
as
well.
So
if
you
have
any
questions,
I
stand
here
ready
to
answer.
A
Thank
you
any
questions
for
the
sponsor,
while
they're
thinking
post
funnels
the
money
for
police
officers
and
they're
in
service,
we'll
we'll
I'm
just
asking
for
how
it's
postured
will
this?
Will
this
be
placed
in
a
tci
budget
and
funneled
out
that
way?
Yes,.
A
A
A
N
N
You
and
the
amendment
makes
the
bill,
and
what
we
are
doing
here
is
currently
we
have
experienced
our
local
sheriffs
in
their
jails,
have
experienced
some
issues
in
the
past
where
a
parolee
is
violated,
and
so
they
end
up
having
some
time
where
they
sit
in
jail
waiting
for
their
revocation
hearing,
in
which
there's
that
lull
of
time,
where
the
locals
are
not
being
reimbursed
for
housing,
that
state
inmate,
and
so
now
we
are
putting
what
has
been
said
to
possibly
be
in
in
rural
or
in
practice.
N
A
A
All
right
we've
got
to
come
back
around
here,
yeah
exactly,
but
all
right,
we're
up
to
item
number
nine,
which
is
house
bill
2748
by
representative
towns,
representative
towns.
You
are
recognized.
O
Thank
you
for
that
again
house
bill
2748,
mr
chairman.
What
I'm
going
to
do
is
that
I've
met
with
some
of
the
people.
Consequently,
after
the
after
the
bill
was
drafted
and
had
some
things
explained
to
me,
and
there
is
a
just
give
you
a
little
background,
the
vendor
service
in
the
jails
they
have
set,
the
situation
up
themselves
paid
for
it
whole
nine
yards.
O
They
split
the
money
with
with
with
the
department
of
corrections
so
to
speak,
and
so
I
wanted
there
to
be
some
competition,
okay,
but
after
you
know
talking
with
them
a
little
bit
on
that
particular
deal,
I
really
would
like
to
take
it
off
notice,
okay.
O
A
All
right,
thank
you
sponsor
without
objection,
this
bill's
off
notice
that
moves
us
to
item
number
10.
A
O
Please,
thank
you,
members.
Now
members,
this
bill
is
a
little
different.
As
you
know,
all
of
us
are
experiencing.
Unfortunately,
inflation,
okay
and
everything
is
going
up.
Everything
costs
I
mean,
as
I
said
earlier
today,
a
barrier
costs
so
much
money.
Today,
it's
unreal
inmates,
don't
have
money
and
so
to
make
phone
calls.
What
happens
is
that
who's
paying
for
those
phone
calls
their
mom
their
grandmother.
Somebody
of
that
nature
and
an
interesting
testament
y'all
had
here
earlier
today.
O
So
what
I'm
I'd
love
to
see
there
be
some
reduction
in
the
cost.
I
know
the
cost
of
calls
have
gone
up
just
a
little
bit
and
what
a
what
a
time
for
the
cost
of
a
call
to
go
up.
I
think
it's
going
up
three
cents.
I
believe-
and
I
think
the
averages
I've
been
shared
with
me-
is
about
11
cents
across
the
state
and
there's
a
date
of
trying
to
get
it
reduced
by
50
in
the
next
three
or
four
years,
just
to
reduce
the
cost.
O
So
people
can
communicate
people
that
don't
have
any
money
they
don't
like.
If
they
work
in
there.
I
guess
they
do
have
a
little
money
to
put
on
the
books.
Obviously,
everybody's,
not
working,
but
I
do
know
that
this
has
come
up
in
town
hall
meetings,
who's
paying
for
it.
It's
a
daddy
mother,
the
grandmother,
that's
who's
paying
for
it,
and
if
you
are
a
grandmother
on
some
kind
of
social
security,
you
don't
have
a
lot
of
money
at
all,
unfortunately,
to
say
it.
O
A
Okay,
you've
heard
the
sponsor's
explanation
of
the
bill.
I
agree
with
you.
I
don't
know
how
you're
gonna,
how
you're
gonna
control
the
seven
percent
inflation
for
the
next
five
years
on
that
deal,
but
I
understand
what
you're
saying
any
questions
for
the
sponsor.
I
know
I
know
no
questions
at
all
all
right.
We
are
voting
on
house
bill
2750,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye,
all
those
opposed.
No,
I'm
sorry
bill
fails.
Okay,
miss
simmons!
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
sir.
A
Leader
you're
recognized
that
give
me
a
progress
report.
Would
you.
C
So,
thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
members.
I
did
get
a
chance
to
go
out
and
talk
with
the
sheriffs
and
they
are
willing
to
work
with
me
on
some
new
language,
we're
that
close
and
we
just
got
to
set
a
time
when
we're
going
to
sit
down
and
work
out
the
language
they've
agreed
to
that.
C
So
I
wasn't
sure
if,
at
this
point
since
this
is
your
last
committee,
we
could
adopt
the
amendment
which
that's
the
one
that
they
would
be
working
off
to
get
this
close.
And
then
we
work
on
it
going
to
full
and
if
it
don't
work,
we
just
don't
move
off.
A
What
I'd
rather
do
is
this
was
going
to
be
our
last
calendar.
I'd
rather
have
a
one
more
week
that
give
you
the
time
to
get
a
timely
filed
amendment,
and
do
it
the
way
you
want
to
do
it,
it's
what
I'd
rather
do
it's
up
to
the
committee,
though,.