Token Engineering Commons Soft Governance Working Group, 5 Nov 2020

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From YouTube: W3 Soft Gov WG: Automated Reward System, Ostrom’s Principles, Experimenting on SourceCred

Description

We thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and opinions on going fully automated and decentralized while keeping the connection between collaborators.

Check out our notes here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QXn7tW2OHB8-XsqMMK8iG7zKI7ar5S_UTHC5ivDsGBw/edit#heading=h.i8i7yypx0t4z

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A

Yes, the battery, it was the battery. I had to change it, but it was just like an hour.

B

B

C

Everything everybody's.

D

Batteries need recharge.

C

This week, everybody recharge your batteries.

E

And this goes for you hey guys. How are you.

B

Good, how are you doing.

F

Great awesome to be here, I I was in the meeting yesterday with lunch, but I'm glad to be meeting today as well.

B

B

Cool, so I posted the what we're gonna be working on in the in the soft gov channel and also in the tc channel. Do you guys have access to this dock?

B

It's the same dock of the manifesto from last time.

B

I, but maybe does everybody have it.

B

Not yet I'm looking for it.

B

Well also, maybe we can do a quick round of shane new people here. Doesn't.

G

Let me open it up, it doesn't. Let me open it up. It says something. Some message from google drive saying I don't know it's a weird message: I've never seen before, but when I click the link that you posted in the general channel, it doesn't open up. It just shows a general screen about google drive.

B

Weird, okay, I'll post it again, maybe now it works.

G

B

Yeah first, I want to start like thank thanking everyone so much for, like we are in this transition now from the first iteration of the working group to the second part of it, and I posted a message in the chat yesterday.

B

I don't know if you all had a chance to look at it, but even when I was writing, I got surprised of how much we got done and I know it seems like it's not so concrete, because even that mirror board, it was like so much information and like oh, where is this going, but uh when we started to pinpoint everything that was that was done and the places we arrived from our conversations.

B

It's it's really amazing and I'm so grateful for, like all the work and energy that you all put in and- and one amazing thing that happened from all of this- is that now we have a much clearer focus of how to actually implement the things that we we are willing to implement. So I'll share. My.

B

Screen here so so yeah I made a second manifesto just to lay out what is the goals that we are trying to achieve from all the material that we gather from the mural board. So now we're taking a break from from the board. I will still be like grabbing pieces of knowledge that are there and you're all welcome to do that too, but now we're going to focus more on ostrom ostrom's principles and how to really apply them to the reality that we have going on in here so yeah.

B

So the mission will be mostly to prepare the transition from the cultural build and the actual comments. So what are all all from all of these rules? All of the progress we've been made making? How can we hold on to that when, when the commons is launched, and how can we create these processes for them to work seamlessly?

B

So so here the the the goals, the breaking down and milestones of what we want to achieve. I propose that we have today a brainstorm about contribution, reward system that jazz proposed and that it's super important. It's one of the key pieces for that transition. How do we keep rewarding soft governance even after the lunch? So we'll go more into that today and then for the next meetings to propose a written agreement of our boundaries and rules.

B

It was surprisingly hard to delineate what are our rules and I would love some help with that. So we'll touch on it soon and also experiment the advice process in the forum as part of submitting a proposal, we have an advice process, but uh now, with the proposal making and and the comments, does it make sense to continue to have an advice process? I think so, but we should discuss that and understand how to implement.

B

It then also sync, with the legal working group for um for the legal agreements that are the principle number four and also brainstorm mutual accountability methods.

B

We started to do that in the mural board and there are some good ideas, but I think we can go deeper in that and try to propose some solutions for voting and also understand a rule for when do we use giveth, and we can explain more about that when we get there. Maybe some people don't know about giveth and, and then uh sync sync with the conflict management working group that are principles, six and seven and then propose a fractal configuration.

B

That is all the structures of the ongoing working groups that we have going on and how they communicate. So I propose we go for the month of november with this work and that we continue to sync every tuesday and that we have our chats on telegram discord.

B

So if you want to get like more deeply involved, please put your name here. Thank you, santi and juan for doing that already so yeah. So I think we're ready to jump at first. Do you guys have any questions about the scope? And what do you think?

B

Is there something that it's missing, that you want to.

E

A

um Maybe there's something I I want to add, and instead um I want to leverage on the work in the mirror board um for making this um like collaborative, um like pool of of the graduate extensions, so like uh people who have access to the mirror board can look at the space that is um down from the core development of soft gob, and there is this uh like uh square that says scale of conflicts, and there are notes to like uh have the the the gravity on the issues um and uh well.

A

I would like, if you can like review it and put some comments into it.

B

A

um You you open the mirror board and it's uh down from the from the core work. It says scale of conflicts and graduate sessions. I can send a.

A

B

Yeah, if you can send the link uh a link to it and a brief description of what you would like people to engage with, that would be co in the chat.

B

Cool, so I think we can go to the next point, that is uh automating, rewards contribution, reward system, roles, research and idea. That is jazz proposal. Just you want to talk a little bit more about it.

C

Sorry I was on mobile, making breakfast but I'll go to my laptop now. um Yes, so we are discussing um and looking at rewards systems which many dows handle this differently and it's still a very new area to explore and innovate on.

H

So I just started.

C

Because I have so many you know cookings going on in the kitchen. I started just with something basic like bare bones: research from looking at the one hive example, so they've been very incredible at innovating on a truly permissionless dao luke. The lead developer is like hardcore decentralist. He doesn't want any centralization. They don't even have centralized communications coming from the community at all.

C

So it's very interesting to watch and look at the different spectrum of how we want to handle things, um but what's definitely evident based on the experience that they're having is they have a super slick like bot system, where you can basically onboard yourself to the community self-assigned to a working group and you are rewarded through source cred based on different actions.

C

So if I participate in conversation- and I put an emoji on something, they have different groups inside of their discord that have different permissions, so different actions get different rewards, and that is a completely automated system where people self join through a bot and then they receive pollen which then turns into honey, and this is like mostly automated there's a few manual steps in the process, while they're still building it. But what they are noticing is. A lot of people were not feeling good about it.

C

They felt like there was a lot of spam going on so there were. You know there was an attack vector there with like spamming the system with emojis to try and get pollen because of course they didn't do a cad cad model and then also many people were doing work that they felt like the system didn't reflect. So I think, in my opinion and from my research- and I think many people might agree- is right.

C

Now we have a very human system like our reward system inside of the tec and the praise system and the comments where it's common stack where it came from, is like humans sit every friday for hours and go over the sheet and like do some math to assign um credit to people who have contributed which will turn into tokens so going forward.

C

We need to look, I think, at some kind of split between an automated system, so we get like a base level that everyone that interacts with the system is rewarded in some capacity and even we can gamify onboarding and do like step one. You know do this, and then you get some um tech for that, and then we need, I think, a second layer of a human squad.

C

That's like able to quantify certain actions, and of course again, this is going to be a dow so like we'll have to go through proposal process for all of this to vote on it as a community.

C

But if we can come up with like an initial plan for the launch to either put in place, if we vote before the launch or if we decide we're, gonna open open it up to the community for after the launch, but I think it would be nice to have a base layer, at least for the automated rewards to start out with. So I just basically went in to this document. um I can I I don't know liv if you want to share screen, or I uh I'm on my mobile but um yeah.

C

I just took some screenshots.

B

From the bot I just took some screenshots.

C

B

I also posted a document on on the the main channel. Okay and.

C

Really, this is an important question: how do you want to be valued for your contributions? How do you want to get paid in essence, and how should we reward others? What actions should we reward and how much of this should be automated, and if we have a you know some people handling like a human quantification layer? What does that look like in a decentralized community, and how do we go about this process?.

I

I hope that wasn't too much one thing about source cred is that it is still pretty centralized like there uh there's one person or or a small group of people who decide the point scores for all the discord things. So while it is automated, you know, I wouldn't call it like, especially decentralized, unless you have some sort of you know very large dow. That is also implementing the automation um parameters.

I

I I think I think the cool thing about our base layer with conviction voting is that uh we can do parallel paths so source cred, praise off the wall, ideas about maybe bounties and these sorts of things for rewarding people.

I

They all have the same base layer, which is conviction, voting funds, uh a a source or a an idea, and then that idea gets implemented. So I think we should experiment with it and be re.

I

I really like the idea of integrating source credit, it's incredible tech uh and really powerful it's, uh and if someone wants to lead it and push it, then we should go for it, uh but maybe start with, like you know, for the first proposal, just ask for you know a small amount of dye and have that ready for at launch being one of the proposals that we start out with at the hatch, and then you know see if people vote for it play with it, see how it goes and also probably, I think we should also do the same with praise and continue the praise quantification, because people know that and are used to it uh and also have funding there and maybe even have another reward methodology, and we can continue to experiment with it.

C

And yeah just so it's clear like so this is basically like all the ways that the money will be distributed or the common pool allocations. It's like, so you can submit a proposal if you're doing work and then we have this reward system, but I do think also having um like we can't vote on every single parameter. That would kind of be ridiculous like to to put a vote on every single parameter like do. We want to reward for an emoji? Do we want to put up a vote so yeah?

C

I guess it would be more of a proposal like you're, saying griff, to like submit for the work on this project uh yeah. I guess for me I'm just kind of getting stuck a bit and like how much to do. I think we should have something in place before the launch that we vote on as, like the pre-hatch trusted seed community of some kind of like reward system. That's there uh before. I don't know. If you agree with that and then well, it's not technically possible.

I

So like that, because uh if we're going to create a reward system, uh there needs to be some sort of funding for those rewards. So uh the funding that we're using now is the hatch tokens right, because that will happen at the hash and that's funding that we can still that we can rely on. But after that there all the funding. For the token engineering commons comes from conviction voting, so you what that would look like is okay.

I

Yes, we need to have the proposal there and we should even have some sort of maybe soft governance, votes or polling. That says yes, as a community, we want to implement source credit, you know, but when it comes down to it, the people who put money into the hatch get tc tokens.

I

The people who have impact hours get tec tokens and those people with tec tokens will have to approve any expenditures of funds, uh so uh there will need to be an actual vote after the hatch and that could send like a portion of funds to uh fill the reward bucket for source cred and even a portion of funds. Maybe maybe the the proposal is hey. We need you know: ten thousand die ten thousand x die to reward our community with uh source cred using source cred.

I

One thousand of the die is going to go to the people who build it. Nine thousand will go to the the people who receive uh emojis.

I

This person is gonna, you know, decide all of the parameters and all that would be written out. It would be approved socially before going into the hatch, and then it's just the I mean this is then it's the bureaucratic like uh confirmation that the people who actually put the money in uh and the people who put the sweat equity in agree with the social consensus that was made beforehand.

C

I want to give that makes sense.

H

C

Think if we can document that, like how you said, I guess we have this call recorded and I'll integrate it.

I

And- and I think it'll be more clear when we have the uh the full test hatch with where we have the hatch the bonding curve, the conviction voting all-in-one with the next test. Hatch, then it'll be like. Oh yes, this is what's happening. You know.

B

Yeah, I want to give one step back, because when we start to talk about the the bureaucracy and the implementation, it leaves culture a little bit. But I think it's really important to understand the culture, the cultural piece. That is uh how how important it is to go so decentralized.

B

And what would be the benefit of that for us in a sense that.

B

I think decentralization exists to dismantle power structures, but if we can have a system that is decentralized enough to to have um yeah horizontal power dynamics, but also to keep the connection and the intimacy somehow between collaborations, because I think that's what what leads into like a fractal structure of. Oh, we are tribal people, you know we we we gather, and then groups gather and these groups are formed and they communicate within each other.

B

um So maybe when I hear you, you saying jess that, like one hive, is going to the the centralized maximalist approach and that some spam is happening and some like conflicts are happening. I think maybe there is a point there where we, I don't know what. What do you guys? Think of like how do we need to go fully automated and fully decentralized in this sense,.

G

I I think that we have to experiment and having the opportunity to watch what's going on with one hive is great. For instance, if I put myself as an example I jumped into one hive because joining talking economics, I heard you guys saying that you know it was good to join one hive to verify with bright id and so on and get and get some faucet, so I jumped because of the fossil.

G

That was like the candy all right that got me there from there. I got interested into poland and I got into poland to the point that I started even playing with the data into poland, grabbing it from github and from there I may end up putting a proposal.

G

So, at the end of the day, there's the different, the different options that some people may feel comfortable with just putting a proposal and and if it passes getting getting, you know the the each day that he requested the proposal. Other people may feel comfortable just getting some pollen or pollen or whatever we call it.

G

You know some some some funds from his daily work, like people on the help channel on on discord on one hype, is getting just for helping newcomers with all the questions they have and they spend several hours there a day just uh giving you know helping the new ones coming in. So there is no perfect uh way of going of moving forward. There's there's problems.

G

They are running into problems with with people cheating into into the pollen thing right now and they're they're, starting to uh blacklist some people and getting them out of the uh rewarding uh distribution. So we we just gotta experiment. There is no other way to move forward and I am. I completely agree that there is no way to go absolutely decentralized.

G

We can try it'd be great if we could, but but it's it's, it's tough. It's not easy.

I

Yeah go for a quarter.

J

Yeah- and I think that having a lot of automation at the level of engagement and communication interactions is not very pleasant for most people, I mean for me personally when I get into a platform or a community.

J

If there are too many bots or too many standardized communications, I feel that this community doesn't want to invest so much in human touch, for example, or in human communication, and uh so, for example, I I wouldn't like to have a completely decentralized and automated communication or interaction layer, for example.

J

I would be curious to know what do you think about it and maybe to have some data like uh market research about this, and uh also, I think that, uh especially in the first phase, it's better to focus on quality and then as the community grows, and we have the need for much higher efficiency efficiency, for example.

J

Then there is a need for automation and higher degrees of decentralization, but in the first phase I mean I think that the investment of human time for humans is highly valuable.

J

I mean when uh someone you arrive and find uh about.

J

I don't know what is the impression, because maybe to us that we like the centralized system and the bots, we are uh happy because they have a layer for this thing and they have a protocol. But I don't think that for everybody, it's like this.

K

But you can have like being decentralized and don't have votes at the same time like, for example, asante was saying about the pollen, for example. If there is decentralized and I'm helping new people, then I got some emotions and, and then I'm I'm rewarded for that. uh But if I, for example, I I can do that today, but maybe I do it in the next week or something like that. But I understand that it's decentralized, but don't necessarily you have to have votes, because it's decentralized.

K

That's what I think.

J

Yeah, of course,.

B

So how would how would we go uh to experiment with with source cred like what would be the steps we would need there? Did you take a look in that jess, or should we like research together.

C

I'm sorry, can you say that one more time it cut out.

B

That, if we want to go and experiment with source cred, what would we.

E

G

We would have to deploy libya, we would have to deploy it in our platform. Decide where do we want to suck information from these guys are the guys at one. Hive are using uh github discord and the forum we could decide if we want to go on the three channels or just the forum initially or just discord, initially beside which channels uh amount of of uh of power give to every every single channel or and and from there. You create a graph.

H

G

The information gets sucked and- and you know you give away the credit or the pollen or whatever we want to call it, but everything is configurable.

G

You have to you have to decide the power that you give to every channel and and in every single channel the power you give to every single action and from there you assign the amount of money that you want to distribute and and that's that's it.

C

Yeah, it's actually sorry, it's actually a lot of work to scope out um because they're yeah, it's quite a lot of work, so I think maybe we can have the initial, like you said, kind of social discussion and buy-in like griff was saying to we could toss around some parameters and basically I started with this very like general, uh to open up the discussion about the spectrum we want for how decentralized we want to be, how much interaction do we want to keep? And then this is like a huge undertaking and process.

C

This isn't going to happen and you know a couple of meetings. This is going to be like ongoing work over the next two months to um get the initial kind of discussions going and how the community is feeling and then have that way. We can prepare this proposal, as griff said, for the launch, to put it in as one of the first proposals that we are able to fund this rewards system, so I guess just slowly starting to scope out the work um get like.

C

Maybe a little working group going like a mini working group and then starting to flush out some of the parameters um on what we want to reward yeah you have to like do a source credit instance, and then it's working a lot with the source cred team to like tweak their algorithms for the different assignments of what we want to reward.

I

Yeah, I mean, I think the first task really is finding someone who has done it before and wants to help lead it uh burrata kai. uh Those are two people I know in our community have done it and zargham actually did it for the token engineering community already and there's cred, there's te cred out there. So in fact impact hours were originally called pred, and then I was like ah it's too confusing. So uh we there is, I don't think it's I.

I

I think the big step is just saying: okay, barada or kai, or whoever wants to leave this. What do you need to take it on and then carry the flag and tell us.

B

I think I feel a little resistance uh just because I love praise so much. He feels he feels really. I don't know it feels precipitated to abandon it and move into something else. Oh.

C

No, no, I don't think anyone's suggesting abandoning praise we're gonna we're discussing doing both was the idea so like, like I think, santi said you know not. Everybody feels comfortable going and submitting a conviction, funding proposal, it's like kind of even me in one hive. I have something to submit. I know the whole system and I'm still kind of intimidated or like shy to submit the proposal.

C

So at least, if we have this base level automation, like zeptimus, said he goes in and like he's helping people he he feels good and knows, and that there's a system for that, but also we can continue like griff said. If the community loves praise and we all love praise, I think it's going to be an easy, yes and then just deciding how much to allocate.

B

To it, and then still continue the existing system or we can.

C

Discuss maybe tweaking it a bit a praise squad, or I don't know, I don't know.

B

I think the part of praise that it's hard to chao is the quantification and then maybe for that we could like brainstorm ideas without to go about it, because even what you were saying griff about how to reward the praise after I think it should shouldn't be a problem to like make a proposal every month for rewarding all the people that were that got praise and sending them tokens.

B

I don't know if it would be too hard in terms of like having all the addresses and having to do that like how many how automated can go in that sense.

I

uh Sorry, I guess that was a question for me anyway. I think praise again. If we want to do praise we're going to have to it's cool, we get to do a second iteration of it, so we have to figure out how we want to change it and then create a proposal and get it funded, whether it's for three months at a time or it's for uh two hours for one each month uh either way uh we'll definitely need to reassess, make a proposal and get it funded.

I

uh The one thing that is weird here you know is that, like there's, a lot of this is a trap. I see a lot of dows get into where it becomes all about dao operations, and I hope that we can also remember that the real cause that we're fighting for is not improving, dowels all around the world and creating cool structures of accountability.

I

The the goal is to fund token engineering public goods, so we don't want to have too many proposals about dao operations. That's the trap that most dallas seem to fall into dowling to dao. We really want to make sure that we're optimizing token engineering, public funding. You know public goods funding so but softgov's job is to do dow operations. So, of course we should be talking about it here, but uh we don't want to get too deep into the woods about trying to optimize all these things.

I

Get it good enough and then, let's get uh let's put dow operations on the side and focus on you know: cat cat models and these sorts of things.

G

And then the first proposal is to decide uh the percentage of amount of uh of retribution to the dow operation and how? Much? For the uh commons, outside of the scope of the internal.

I

Yeah, that's, I think, that's a really good idea.

C

Well, if you look at most nonprofits, the target is supposed to be what like 10 or less on admin budget is the ideal. So maybe we use that as a guide and also what you're saying santi. It is all an experiment. Nobody knows and what griff is saying like if we can all keep reminding each other. Why we're here and yeah it's not to do admin.

C

So all of these elements that are being discussed and all the input is so important and even having this discussion because yeah we are just creating this, and I think we actually are in a really good position that we have all of this experience from um past we've been able to watch so many projects kind of fail, so we have a better chance at a good start.

C

So if we continue to keep running how we are and like listening to the collective intelligence, it will, I think, be easier to like ground in something that's going to work really well.

B

Yeah and soft golf doesn't need to be only admin work. It's also to. I think the main mission is to actually keep people in alignment with the comments.

B

What is rewarded from.

B

B

About how do we reward that and.

E

B

Okay, so so maybe maybe next step is to I'm getting a lot grave. Can you mute quick, please thank you hard to focus when I hear my voice back, um so I think the next step is finding someone to lead the automation and and trying it is anyone opposed to us trying source grant.

C

Cool just to provide as well a little framing around like action steps. um I think what is needed.

A

I think that a good way to uh measure like what uh uh do people want to be rewarded from could be like also uh having um these brainstorms in in amira board. Maybe we can like make a type form or something where, where people like, actually uh answers that that question, like what kind of of of of behavior do, you think, uh could be better valued than other or like uh yeah. For what kind of activities do you wanna get.

E

B

So you're saying to narrow more down the scope of what is praised and what is not.

C

Yeah I had to refresh.

A

Yeah like um having um some uh like uh brainstorm session for like um updating uh the the activities that would get praised after they had like um yeah, like updating the tiers for for activities.

B

Maybe I have a feeling that that will be a little more broad and then maybe that's why it's interesting to also have source cred to like make it uh bigger. Well, we can reward, but yeah, I'm happy to hear other other thoughts around. That too.

L

I would like to say that source cred is like a lot of work.

L

I've been talking to one of the guys, that's been doing it on one hype and it's a lot of work and and as grief said, I was thinking I was wondering what what is this all for, like is the source cred just for, like isd focused on making the system only or is it going to make a project more focused on so also I'm not sure um if it's that useful to do like in a in a hurry, maybe in two months we know better how, when I did or other house did we resort, and maybe we know better if it's worth the effort, but in any case it's.

L

Unless it's like, too much work for something that you you are, you know how to do already with other methods.

C

And maybe two just re-examining the goal of what is the purpose of this, like? The purpose is so that people feel rewarded and valued for their contributions, but maybe all the people are going to be submitting proposals to work. On actual token,.

H

C

Projects, um so I guess continuing to ask these questions.

C

C

I didn't understand very well.

C

Also, do we want to have a a faucet, that's another discussion as well. That goes along with, like not really rewards, it's more like a little ubi or something, but it's like to reward participation but yeah. This can also be kind of pulling the project because it's a whole wormhole that could pull energy away away from the um the core goal.

I

M

I I think both both the source code and others.

H

M

A faucet would be um good. Sorry manu. Can you briefly view both source credit and a faucet would be good to scale the the community, but I feel like the community is quite small, so I don't see the need right now, but I think source code is amazing for uh experimenting, but maybe we could start small and scale it up later.

G

I personally don't think a faucet way of of rewarding is. Is it fits very well in our community? uh It attracts a lot of you know, treasure hunters that just get here for for the amount of money that you give away and they don't want any of that and at the end of the day they end up messing up with other other things in the community.

G

But you know again, experimenting is never but and and we can try for a little while I mean if it doesn't work, we can forget about it. Of course it all depends on the amount of work we have to do to put it to put it in place, but but experimenting is always good. You get surprises on what you may end up getting out of so trying different different options and and having them all together or sometime for a period of time. We have one or another.

G

I think it's great and they may not work very well in one hive and they may work perfectly on our community. We don't even know I mean it doesn't have to be that it. It doesn't work there. It won't work here I mean it's different communities, it's different goals, so it could perfectly work here, even if it doesn't work there.

M

Yeah, I agree, and um I would just say, like um it's nice, for uh new people to just stay in the loop uh with new with the project and uh come back return to the project uh and get rewarded for that. um Yeah.

B

Cool, so I think we have somehow of a consensus that we should try source grant and so uh jess do you wanna uh see if you can talk to someone with either beretta or k, and maybe we can start a chat around that to just investigate what do we need how long? What is the effort? How how can we approach this.

C

Yeah we have that channel with bharata open. I guess my bandwidth is pretty low right now for all the other projects, so what I can do and what I'm good at is catalyzing uh the initial like kick kick some energy in it, but also this is like a huge undertaking. So if there are like one or two other people that want to carry the flag as griff calls it like, I can catalyze it. I can connect all the pieces and I can integrate a lot of what we've talked about into the document.

C

I started, but I definitely think this is going to take a lot of hands on deck to like really start to move and again this is a two-month project. So there's not like a rush and also we can take step by step, but definitely will take a lot of energy to push this forward.

C

So I can catalyze, but if anybody else says like oh yeah, I'm super interested and looking at this and experimenting just you can say now or you can just dm me, and I will add you to the channel that will create to start these discussions and just to have a few more hands.

C

Working on this document with me would be super appreciated.

B

There's someone that wants to jump into that flag.

G

F

G

Just with that.

F

Yeah me too, good lovely.

B

Nice, oh okay, so uh matteo and santi.

B

Oh, I think that this was a a nice brainstorming. We got to an action item that we should experiment with this and we're going to move forward.

B

So one last thing I wanted to say today is that I really want to start um governing the commons working group because we've been talking so much about uh ostrom's principles and uh there is a whole book out there with so much knowledge that we can tap into and I feel like I don't know- maybe more people in the community would like to join, and I would just maybe like to have a signal.

B

If that's something interesting for you guys and propose that we have a dynamic of a co-hosted book club that maybe every week, one person grabs, grabs the flag of a chapter and and proposes a discussion based on it. And I have like a a signal, a signal round. If that's something interesting to to have along this working group as well.

J

That's very cool, I think, and uh part of an effort that I love with the idea. I think that there are a lot of scholars of the out there that are interested in this thing, because it's very innovative and it is online while the majority of the energies around the commons.

J

Actually, I think that they are based on local communities and the physical spaces or environmental contexts, so making a forest a common or building a common. But this is very intriguing, I think so. Let's do.

J

B

Okay, awesome so I'll start and then whoever feels to jump in let's jump in this book, um and we have 10 minutes left.

B

Do we want to do a just a rare round of sharing of closing, I would love to hear a feedback of like how is the direction we're going with this working group? Is there something else uh you would like to discuss to propose to get to talk about? How are you feeling being here and how can we improve our time together.

B

So I'll pass to.

B

I'll pass through.

N

Manu sorry, for that, I wanted to say yeah that I'm super excited about the proposal that you made and I'm really looking forward to it, and I would also love to continue learning, because this is a learning experience for me as well and yeah excited to be here and I pass it to santi.

G

I think that we are going into the right direction a little by little as we move forward. The group is, uh you know, uh just addressing everything that that it gets needed. uh I think the proposals on how to you know uh praise the contribution uh how to move forward into into astrum's principles. uh It's great, juan carlos, is doing a great job with the conflict resolution, which is something that we have to keep in place.

G

Absolutely I see what's going on in one hive and that's definitely because of they are lacking any way of managing conflict and- and it's just arising now- and they are fighting uh right now uh that it's appearing if they had something put together.

H

No matter what.

G

It probably would be easier to manage than than what it is right now. So I'm just uh very happy how the group is evolving and I'll just pass it to uh jess.

C

Yeah, I think this was an amazing call. It's really nice, when we can like take one issue at a time, especially such a big one as rewarding contributions, and this is something like we cannot do on our own. We really need the whole community to feel good about the process that we're developing.

C

So I'm so grateful that everybody is like feeling open to sharing like your thoughts and your experience, and I think because of that we will be able to um have something everybody feels really good about, and that's the goal that I hope to see happen is that everybody feels acknowledged that everybody feels rewarded and feels like the gratitude for showing up and working projects together. So I will pass to.

C

D

Yeah, I don't have uh too much to add um just uh again still still taking in. um I would, I would say uh I would echo the previous comments about uh dao's getting tied up in dao operation stuff. So uh if we can avoid that, that would be amazing, um I'm not sure who hasn't gone yet so um an open pass.

B

I'll pass through.

L

Tonga: okay: I have not much to add either I'm really glad that, besides all the like all the.

L

Like the all the stuff we are doing, I like most of you or all of you- I don't know yet, but I like how you communicate. I can feel a difference between one hype and these stocks.

L

This is feels much more human and that's like. Sometimes it is hard to talk, but sometimes it's like. Okay, I'm not so alone in the day at the computer, I'm with people, we are goals. So thank you all and.

L

I pass it to david.

H

um Hi y'all, I am is, uh is my mic working this time.

H

um Can you hear me yeah all right? I am yeah yeah, really really good good idea as well. I'm looking up this um source cred and integrating that with the with the praise, sounds like a brilliant idea, and then I might put my name down down for that as well. Because of my my machine issues, I might not be able to do much coding between now and a replacement so that yeah that'd be I'll, just have to read them through the source code and send it on to a few mates.

H

But I I don't have much more experience than the d5 or anything with one hive or anything like that. But definitely this sounds like they start a community. That is the um yeah that that is good, yeah yeah anyway, I am I pass it on to. I can't see names on my screen so just faces, so somebody pass on and.

E

I

Sorry, I didn't hear you past who you passed it to, but I want to take it because I have to check out my hotel. uh So thank you guys. That was a great call. I am a little sketched out by how much work source cred is, and so it is a big rabbit hole uh and I hope that we don't take it on without someone who's done it before uh leaving the charge.

I

So while I I think it's really cool one of the coolest things out there uh and I they're there and it deserves a lot of interest. I just hope that for streamlining the effort uh before you guys put too much work into it, that we find someone who's down to lead it and finish it and has finished it before, because, oh my god, it is not easy. I've seen lots of people start it and fail.

I

So uh take it seriously and also you know if praise is working, maybe we work on something that isn't that is broken, uh so I don't know, that's my opinion on it, uh but I'm I, I think, eventually, no matter what source cred will be part of the tec.

I

So if we do it sooner rather than later, that's also cool uh and who hasn't gone yet I'll pass it to chris. Did you go chris.

C

Septimus hasn't gone yet.

K

Yeah I didn't go. uh I was thinking like this socrates. I mean right now with the price system. I I mean I I at least me, and I think everyone feels rewarded. So for the moment, I think there is no no need at all, but at the same time, when we go a larger community, it's important like to test it, and especially uh I don't know who say about the the with some abusing of the system. We I mean we have to prevent that to happen, but for the moment I think is for me.

K

I think it's no need because uh I mean implement, implement it right now and start uh to get the word uh by cred, because I don't know, I think the community is being very, very rewarded and I also had something to say, but it's related to the last call on comms, uh when I I saw the js videos before doing a proposal on the conviction voting and the information I was lacking is when you do your job.

K

I mean you, do the proposal and did you do your job and when you finish your job, I was confused where I should post it and.

O

K

Posted on on my own forum link, but I don't know if that's correct,.

C

You mean how to execute a proposal. Like you put the proposal in a past.

K

Yeah yeah yeah and I actually and I executed myself, but when I okay, but when I I do the job when I finish, where should I post the the result, I I mean the work I do.

C

I you can message me and I'll walk you through it, since we just have a minute left. I will help you it's like you. Can self audit it's! You can execute your own proposal once it passed. So I'll show you how to do that. If you just reach out to me, okay, we can walk you through it. Cool.

J

Jessica, you didn't watch my needs.

J

The the memes I sent you on the ice.

C

I watched the memes, I did watch the memes. I thought I replied I'll double check.

J

B

Sorry, no, I think, you're also asking about like where to post the the work that you did: yeah yeah in the same post as the proposal.

K

B

That's a good thanks for pointing that out. We should write it down somewhere, but I think just yeah in the same proposal forum.

K

Okay yeah, thank you. That was the question.

F

Okay, so so I'll go next, uh it's my first meeting in the commons stark actually in the token engineer side, because I was I have been working with gibbet most of my time since three months ago- actually so happy to be more involved in this, and actually I know personally juan carlos, I kind of introduced him to an unborn him to give it and give it a broken to to this.

F

So I'm happy to be helping him with the conflict management part as much as I can and really excited to be, offering much more effort to to this community. I love it really have been.

F

It's been a long time, but this year these past four months are have been my most er efforts that I have provided so yeah nice to meet you all and if anyone needs something from me, I will be up here. So I don't know who hasn't I mean I thank you to you.

A

Gracias, mateo. um Well, I'm very happy to be here in this uh call, and yesterday we had the first call on the conflict management working group, but we are gonna have uh after next week we are gonna, have uh the calls to on tuesdays uh two hours before softcup and um as we don't have um a channel.

A

um Most of the information is in the soft channel, but I would really appreciate if uh um the people who hasn't read uh the the proposal and the working group uh document, please uh read it and also um to, as I said before, uh helped me in the brainstorm of the mirror board that is below the work that we've already done.

A

It says graduate sanctions and the idea is to like have um uh this um first um review on on how on on what are the measurements of of uh conflicts and what are the measurement of like proposed sanctions? So I'm very pleased to be here and um I will pass it to atta. I.

O

Yes, hello. uh This is also my first call here and I think it was really engaging and interesting in terms of the questions about uh different, like rewarding rewarding systems and how they address needs of, like certain communities with different goals, different compositions, etc and uh yeah. It was a very interesting meeting to listen or listen to and yeah. I'm very grateful to be here again.

O

Is there anyone thanks for.

B

Coming, I think, uh fabian and craig guy last.

M

um I'm a designer, um I think this is super interesting. I've been following one hive and um communities as well, so I think yeah. I still need to get some unders more understanding of what the goals are um on this project, but uh I'm so happy to contribute uh if there's any work on interface, design and user stuff.

C

So happier here we need more uiux people.

M

Yeah I'll reach out.

B

B

P

Okay, um since we're past time, I'll just give a quick plug to join our te praise telegram channel so that we can disuse some praise. There might be a few people here that are not joined yet but um yeah. That's all! Thank you, everyone for all the good work and good vibes.

E

B

B

Happy and your day.

B

Okay, so I think everyone went right if, if not, please jump in.

B

Otherwise we can wrap up this call. Thank you so much everyone for coming and yeah. Let's chat about all this and the uh in the telegram, discord and and keep this moving, it's great that we have an action, uh leads for this action item and, let's see if it actually makes sense to implement source, cred and I'll, give more information about the book club. Soon too,.

C

And before everyone jumps did we get record everyone that was here, so we can praise.

B

Yeah I got a print screen.

C

C

J

C