Token Engineering Commons Stewards Council, 7 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: W13 Stewards Council: Financial Report, Revenue Streams, & Token Utility

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A

Body of water in the world and why.

B

Could you start because I didn't fully understood the question.

A

Oh just what is your favorite body of water? Do you have a favorite lake or river or ocean or sea and I'll pass.

C

A

Get us started.

C

Oh I'm chewing.

D

C

Yeah, I I've been thinking about that a lot because the city and then now it feels like a huge body of water.

C

It's just I was thinking I could go to a desert after here to balance out, because it's water everywhere, like there's so many beaches and waterfalls, and it rains at least three times a day and it's super hot, so there's always like water, is always welcome.

C

So that has been my my favorite body of water, just the ocean here and now pass.

A

To it's, the atlantic ocean.

D

C

Oh, my god, don't expose how bad I am in geography.

E

Yeah, I think the sea I love the sea, um I am from the caribbean. I live 15 minutes from the sea, so yeah, I love the sea. I even had like this this tattoo. That is like a weight. It's my most recent tattoo and I just love water um I'll, pass to manu.

F

Thanks cuanca, uh for me, it had to be the panuku river, which is in tampico, which is a beach in the gulf of mexico, on the state north of texas, and um it's very emblematic of that city, which I lived in for about 80 years, and I went fishing there. I went swimming there. I went just watching the waves and uh just on a boat with friends and uh yeah. I I have.

F

I have really good memories there, so it would have to be panucho river um and I will pass it to anti.

G

Thanks uh so I'm here in the dominican republic, uh some people say we have some of the most beautiful beaches and uh I'll probably agree. Anyhow. If I had to choose one of them, it would probably be um playa de amante, which is like uh diamond beach.

G

um I remember being there um in vacations, I have like seven years or something with my whole family. It was just really cool, really cool uh yeah, probably that one I'll pass it on to 60.

B

Thank you, auntie yeah, I like river, like when you can do some kind sport. I love actually doing kayak uh in my village. You can actually do it, so everyone is invited in the summer uh and yeah like uh I like when you I like, uh sweet water, more than salty water and yeah.

B

When you can do some kind of sport, I think that's cool and I'll pass it to lauren.

C

Thanks empty, so the question is: what is your favorite body of water right? I missed the question, but I got everyone's answers: yeah. Okay, I think I'm with zepty I like sweet water better than salty water, and it sounds I mean honestly. You know when I was thinking about. I was like lake ontario is where I grew up, so I like lake ontario, but lake ontario has like a really bad rat for being like a really gross polluted lake, but there's still something about it.

C

It's like in the wintertime it'll like freeze over and get this like thick layer of ice that you can like walk really far out onto the lake on and and it's really beautiful and like me and my brothers used to go kayaking, and I just like built such a relationship with this lake that I feel like lake ontario is my favorite body of water honestly, no passage to griff.

H

Yeah, there's I love hot springs, I really love doing hot springs and there's so many. um I have too many favorite hot springs. Just went.

D

To this one in.

B

H

But I think if I had to say best one or like just one there's this one in california, that's kind of off of uh highway 395., it's like travertine or something, but it's super cool. It's like a hot spring. Water has been building up this like a mineral bed, and so the hot spring comes up on this mineral bed and then like just kind of floats down its own literal path that it's like built and cool until it cools into like some little pools that that are very natural and no one's ever around.

H

And it's just this. I don't know it's just this epic spot and amazing views. It's a magical. It's probably yeah. I guess it's my favorite one and it's free. It's just sitting there off the side of the road uh I'll pass it back to tam.

A

Cool, um well, I guess I'll go next and then pass to bear to close us out. um I think, like lauren, I had like my childhood favorite, one, which is coney island, because we'd hop on the f train, and that was like the body of water that we would swim in, um but it's also a little gross like ontario, so I'd say like as an adult. I think my favorite, like the the the body of water that has impressed me.

A

The most is um lake anisee, it's in the middle of france, and it has these amazing turquoise water and it's surrounded by mountains, and then it has this tiny little village. So it's actually like extraordinarily peaceful and super rare. You know it's it's. It looks like mediterranean water, but it's in you know in a lake, so I I I say that one has uh probably now become my favorite and, and you would bear sorry, would you like to close this out.

A

Yeah, I think we all went so um septimus has prepared something for us, and um the floor is yours. That.

B

Yeah, let me let me share my screen: okay and yeah, actually, like I'm, going to do like a yeah, a small presentation or all the numbers went uh of this three free free month on the tc, uh so yeah like basically like uh we, we get this money from the hud like 1.5 million dollars, and then we split in right. Now we have a split on three pools and at 51 of uh march, like actually our treasury, we're looking like this.

B

So overall, it wasn't like 1.2.

D

Million I mean we.

B

D

B

Like the money- but I I didn't wanted to put it here because it's not money like we can use uh but yeah it's money we have, but it's just backing our tokens, so I mean right now we as a comment. We have more money than at the beginning, uh especially like from the uh the revenue we get, especially at launch uh so yeah. Basically, like I I mean our revenue, like especially like at launch, was uh kind of big uh 2.3 k. But then I also wanted to share like yeah like.

D

B

Really, I mean it's something like we all know, but.

D

B

Everyone is aware, like uh our revenue from the bonding group, is actually decreasing, like 98 percent uh from january to february, and then from february to march, like another 72 percent.

B

D

B

Hear like I'm also talking about like the like, how are we using the the money so at 39 is being used in operations. uh 75 is in the public goods and then 2.3 on others, uh yeah yeah, like I don't want to say, like uh I mean that's actually like, probably like my opinion and actually like. If someone sees something like it should be changed like something like. I feel like it's tea, but then someone sings well.

I

B

Is operations like we could also, like you, know, change stuff, but for me, like the three big operations after the tc's, like these three working groups and transparencies to us and communities uh and then also like when we are talking about the outflow uh in this presentation, I'm not going through each uh proposal, it's something like I want to do like later, like when I go into detail of each proposal, but just so people know like it doesn't. You know like here the proposal, for example, for transplants.

B

It was for three months, but probably it will be. It will run like five months pretty solid. I feel like we we're using like three people, one game monthly and we get like 70k at least until now, uh and then yeah on tv projects. We, those are the key projects we found during this period.

B

uh This is like the assuming of all of them, uh and I want to add here, like you know, gravity and then comes because I don't feel like it's a service only for easy, but just for all these and gravity is also a public. I I consider it a probably good when it costs his own comments.

B

Yeah and then laser attack uh one of the rewards. Actually there was this: they were not distributed for this period of time uh and then laser tag uh only had this swap with evas, which actually and and end up being 78k of liquidity. All this information is like locked at 31 of march and so yeah.

I

B

We gave them like this amount of dc and they gave us like this amount of pivot, and then we make our pool they made our pool, and this is like the final result.

B

And then yeah on others like we had this uh no like, I was considering this other, like I don't feel like they fall into neither operations. I mean this one could kind of feeling, but since it was like one time thing.

D

B

Oh, it should say others here, that's a mistake.

D

B

D

B

Is the the output we have we had for others and then and then again like this is kinda. You know like because our inflow, uh this quarter was two point uh 206k and the math of you know the commerce running for four points: five years, it's kinda unrealistic, but then, at the same time uh you know like we generate this amount of revenue, this quarter and then uh yeah.

B

Then I just divided, like you know, inflows all flows and then yeah how long it would run like I make the the math uh but then again like this is not super accurate, because this also can change. You know the less money we have in the common pool.

B

You know the harder it is to pass proposals so probably like next quarter like we are going to use less money than this one, just because of the hope, the way conviction voting works.

B

And then yeah, like actually like, I just wanted to everyone, see like yeah, like especially like the revenue, feels pretty bad to me, at least like.

D

B

Went down like 98 and then, which I mean the first month is expected. Like okay, you did the launch, then. Okay, like the revenue, is so it's expected to go down, but then what uh yeah? What.

B

72 again uh so yeah like uh I wanted like us to chat a little bit like uh up for new revenue streams or uh and also like, uh have a little chat like. uh How do we feel like our conviction like?

B

Should we have like uh harder like make it harder to have like more uh curate proposals or yeah like I, I actually wanted to open the floor, so we can just discuss, maybe like we could talk about like for new revenue streams, and then we talk about conviction voting so maybe, like we pass around for revenue, uh I'd like to hear from edu.

J

Hello septi, I just joined, so I will pass it on to time and then I can uh get back at you.

A

Okay, I mean I'll, say I wouldn't there's a few things I'll say: ah there's a lot. um I wouldn't harp too much on the difference in revenue coming in and coming out like the inflow and output. Only because we're the revenue was just the initial buy right, that's the entire revenue, so that was always known to be like a one-time deal that wasn't going to be a recurring revenue stream, so that was more like almost like an initialization condition than it was like a revenue stream. So I would probably say you know it's.

A

Our revenue is zero and we should figure out how to get it off zero.

A

um More than like look at look at comparing, you know these those numbers in particular let's but but still, um and then I guess I would probably put some part of gravity and some part of comms in operations, because while it's true that they are a public good, they are also um part of our operations like we, we wouldn't be at like to tec, wouldn't necessarily be able to um like if they stopped being funded as a public. Good they'd have to be public.

A

They'd have to be public, they'd have to be funded in the tec, somehow, whether it's as a public good or as um as an operation cost.

A

um I guess what I'm really interested in is like what does this look like did? Did we say what our current pool is? It's 799 k, I think, on slide two and okay, and if we're looking at something like we're saying there is 110 166 right. So, let's, let's say 266., so we're. Basically looking at two or three more rounds like this before the the uh the the commence pool is completely empty.

A

So I I'm really interested in in focusing on how we can create more um revenue for the tec and provide services that are revenue generating and open to changing conviction, voting, but don't have a very strong opinion on it either way right now and I'll pass to libya.

D

C

um Yeah, we've been chatting a lot about this, the last few days on services, tc utility and something that came up first.

C

I wanted to say that I think I I realized there was a maturity in this point in the community, because I saw this conversation coming from many people at the same time, so it wasn't like a red flag that one person was lifting and I feel, like everyone stepped up to it and yeah second, that we should look into a short-term and a long-term solution, and it feels like the solutions we've been coming up with are looking like medium long term, and I wonder how can we focus more on something that is short-term to even make it feasible to focus on the long-term ones and yeah?

C

Maybe maybe it's like about creating a working group like griff, said and focusing more on it like having a group of people that are like 100 percent uh thinking about this and I'll pass. Your breath.

H

Thanks uh yeah the my my thoughts on this first off, it's not like we're not going to run out of money. It's just going to be hard to get money out right. So the common pool has this magical thing where it will never really run out of money, because it'll.

I

H

Impossible to pass any proposals, um but uh so in some ways we have even less money than we think we have, because it'll just be harder, it'll be really hard to pass things. uh I don't think that it's like emergency level yet, but I do think we need to solve. uh We need to get some revenue streams flowing.

H

uh I hope that there are some opportunities that arise. The easiest one for me to to see opportunities for is just making the token more valuable and making the token more in demand, and if we do that, then the whole system is kind of appreciated, even though it doesn't bring that much more money into the common pool. It actually brings a lot more awareness into us and also gives the reward system. We do hold a lot of tc, so that makes the reward system not run out of money as quickly uh but yeah.

H

So I would like to see uh and also narrowing the narrowing the band of the augmented bond curve. It's still at, like 20 percent started at 24., uh but it's it's. You know.

I

We need to keep.

H

Passing these proposals and narrow.

C

The van so that.

D

H

Volatility hits we're still generating revenue, um but yeah. I I actually don't see. I don't think that it's gonna be like a huge problem, but we really right now if we because we like, I don't think that, like oh man, we don't have anything we're screwed, but we do need to get things going and I would say, within three months, have like uh steady revenue streams. Besides the augmented bonding curve- and I don't know what they are- we could throw a conference uh we can. We can work with the t academy.

H

I think they said that uh I've heard a few projects like long tail financial says that they want to buy tec on the bonding curve. I also think we should try to encourage proposals to hold tec and actually use the bonding curve when they get money that they actually pull tc in there as collateral in their multi syncs, instead of just holding rap next time.

H

I was really disappointed like, for instance, the numpy um proposal wasn't interested in turning it into tec after they got the money that would have been nice and then we'd have a little bit of regenerative. We spend money, but some money goes back, you know and it would help um yeah and I'll pass it to wonka.

E

um I I think it's super interesting to have all these discussions. um I also I'm happy for the params configuration we chose because we have like two months or three months with the common pool and with the bonding curve, and we have 800k.

E

That was one of the.

E

Common pools that we would have initially with some of the other proposals, so I feel that we made a good decision and um it worked because we had over a million in the common pool with um all um the initial um interaction with the bonding curve. So I think until now it's been good. Maybe things will continue developing.

E

Things move really fast um and I think it would be really cool if, if we can yeah continue like um trying that that some of the working groups, um how can we make them also daos and public goods? And how can we also then try to create the an economy for their own? At least that's how I am trying to see gravity and the other thing is um just to have like a quick parenthesis.

E

um Last week I published an article from gravity, but we had some uh troubles accessing to it. It was very difficult to access the document, so we took it down and we re-uploaded it and I will be sharing uh the link. I think this one is good and just for let you for letting you know. When you have time, you can read it and that's my take. I will pass to um chewy.

J

Before you pass it on to shoei, um septi is possible to have the link to this uh document, or is it share some.

B

More actually, it's on the slides from today community call, but I can't dm you with it.

A

Thank you. It's also in the agenda right. It's right here.

J

D

Yeah yeah yeah. Thank you so much.

J

K

D

um I don't really have an opinion right now or or any like com comment that I could contribute with um yeah, mostly like uh listening today and and uh yeah just trying to uh uh see how all this like can, uh strengthen or or just have a more like clear um utility for anything uh involving communications.

D

So uh yeah I'll just pass it to uh manu.

F

F

Okay, so for me I think it's just uh just go back to basics right like uh how can we be valuable uh to our community and uh how can we do so in a way that that value that we're contributing uh is stored in tc right, and so I mean we could have ideas about how to go on about that. I really like the one I suggested previously about having um like uh total engineers on call that can do consulting for projects I mean in the end.

F

We can have ideas about what we think will work, but what I've seen that people come to tc for is to get consulting for their projects, so I think right now, there's there's a need there. I really like doing that for gravity as well.

F

Like uh I, I also see I think argon just started their own umbrella project, wanker and so they're they're doing a gravity of their own, so perhaps asking for a consulting uh in terms of tec, so just those type of services that only us can provide, uh at least for now, because we have the infrastructure for it uh ask for tc. So, for now you know uh t consulting and uh gravity consulting seemed like seemed like a good choice. They might seem. um I don't know like.

F

Basic suggestions, but I think uh it's I'm playing it safe in here for now, so that that's those are my thoughts and I will pass it to.

J

Thank you, man, um yeah I've been taking a look to the document. It's interesting um in this sense, I will say: um yeah the services, the services part of what we can provide.

J

I would like to have action items at the end of this meeting to understand what will be uh the steps that we could follow or agree upon to do. um I think there should be an effort on providing services on one end and there should be another parallel effort to let the voice out about the dc and the value of the token and all this stuff. I feel like there should be also this.

J

um This effort put onto building certain kind of marketing aspects to um to what we are doing, so it won't be the same five people joining the call and so on. So I feel like there is. There should be a parallel effort uh on both things providing the services, but at the same time letting people know that we actually have services.

J

I think that would be something um interesting to see, and um just I don't know if this comes next on the slide septic, but I also like to know: um is there any recommendation regarding the budget's proposal for next? The next? You know, for example, he made us we'll have another one um or we'll have another one in the next month. So will is there any recommendation? Is there anything that we should be aware of or timeline, and I don't know who is left so learn? Maybe.

C

Thanks, I do um yeah, so I have a question, though, like so, if we're talking band on the tributes um like so we could just like, we could also just like break the flow of like every month. We bring it down to two percent and a four percent or whatever, and actually just like just change it to what we want it to be and what we think would like increase like arbitrage and and actually like generating more revenue for the common pool.

C

um Also um sem had an interesting idea in the giveth forum, because sanji was putting forward a proposal from nfts, and the idea was like what, if we um minted nfts in exchange for people sending funds to the common pool- and I was like oh, we have too much funds and they give us common pool anyway, we're too much given the give a common pool anyway. But that would be maybe something that would be cool to do here if we were just like.

C

I don't know just for like a quick fix, spin out an nft project where it's like, you could get a cool token engineering nft in exchange for sending funds to the common pool, like nftb's kind of launched. This thing really quickly and just kind of put something together, and I don't know it's just kind of an idea.

C

I don't know if we really want to put a lot of resources into doing that, but I think like using nfts and token engineering and kind of like finding ways of of creating good revenue models using nfts is actually something that's kind of like in line with our mission. It might be cool and um and yeah, and then other than that I think like just like.

C

If we started like I mean, I think the reward system is something that's like really in demand by a lot of different communities and if we could create like a system where we help other communities set up their reward systems in exchange for like sending funds to the common pool.

C

I I haven't really been like keeping super close eye on like what the long-term roadmap is for the reward system, how we're going to share it with other communities like maybe it's just a public good, and we don't want to charge people for it, but maybe we could actually like create a system where we're like sharing what we're, building and also having it like, be a win-win situation for um yeah for being able to do more with more in the common pool um yeah. That's all I got um maybe I'll pass to empty.

G

Thanks so um we we chatted about this yesterday on softcove, and I spent the whole day thinking about that, um and uh I thought like, for example, if uh land, if a commons, that's a physical commons like a man has to you, know, to keep looking for water and nutrients to grow the grass and, and- and you know when that grass feeds the cows if the tc's that land is and if the cows are the tea projects.

G

I think the tea is facing from some sort of uh fundraising efforts and I thought like um and then in that same note, I sort of compared uh the tc with bitcoin like bitcoin like we essentially. I think I think we sort of make the same or like the goal is the same. Maybe gigan is in abroad scope, but I thought, like um maybe the tc could have like a working group dedicated to fundraising, maybe with some sort of um event, every quarter or twice a year.

G

Something like that where um I don't know, for example, well, instead of every single tea project going after after grants, uh we could have a shared effort on the tc and so, for example, uh git coin.

G

Instead of giving a grant to to the t academy could give a grant to the tc and then, if, if, if bitcoin says like okay well, I gave the ground, but I'm pretty interested in in the tv academy, they could sort of vote with the tc and make that happen like sort of some sort of uh curation method for te projects, uh and I think that would be um an interesting approach and if, by any chance, they think the tc isn't doing a great uh like.

G

I think the interesting part is like if they think the tc isn't doing um a good job. They can always get up some of the ground back.

G

um So I I think, there's upside and there's uh something cool about offering uh getting grants in the abc instead of in particular projects and letting the projects letting the grantees sort of create the projects in the garden.

G

And with that I'll pass it into uh libby.

A

Did you say lily auntie.

B

Oh I'm gonna give a house. uh I have like different like what I would love like you know, like all these solutions we are proposing is like kinda donations and I don't think like a system, uh I mean, I don't think we want to build a system, that's running from donations like even if we offer a service.

D

B

I

Know like if this.

B

Person is doing the service and they're sending the money to the commonwealth, they're kind of like a donation. I would love like if we could find uh some token engineers that uh build uh start thinking on how to build those systems more. uh You know regenerative uh and yeah like I I I think like that's like key because like and of course I give abilities to the token so there's more ideas to use revenue. Yesterday I was just chatting with luke from from the zoi, and he was I mean we were just rambling.

B

I was just explaining him a little bit what war is trying to do and then he was like oh yeah, and you could do also this lp's and then you know preach this with gnosis money. Then there's more uh like he was trying to use like uh a tool that, when you use it like you have, even if you like, with your honey, swap or switch swap or whatever, like all the liquidities mix it, and I think like we should.

B

We should need something like like this, like bigger systems that uh that generates the revenue uh for the system itself and looks like the dc token needs to have utility, and then the economy can run until the utility of the token. And then you know, give people a reason to also use pc, but also like exchange tc for for stuff and then also buying pc again.

B

So he can get that start uh yeah in my opinion, like that, we should create like a strong economy, and I would love to find people who start thinking on that. Smart people that yeah.

D

I don't know who.

B

Regarding your question as well, I don't, I really don't think that transparency should say you know he's so like I can save my opinion as an individual, but I don't think transparency should give like his opinion like how the government should use the money, because that would give transparency too much power, and you know that's like I feel like these decisions- is- should come from the token holders and the token holders should decide what do we find and what we don't find.

B

Or if someone like to add something after this first round.

A

Bear did you want to share any thoughts or you don't have to. Of course, if you don't have thoughts to share.

A

Cool and welcome nate and welcome craig. I don't know if you had a chance to look through the financial report that zeptimus has shared that he presented it earlier uh in the call um and uh if well we just almost everyone has spoken so far so nate. Do you want to share any thoughts if you have had a chance to go through them.

K

F

K

Mean it's still kind of the same principles that I've been looking at for a little while um you know we can create a lot of utility for the token and it will. It definitely helps to bring bring value to the common pool and to the token itself. However, you know the the entire point of of testing out.

K

This system is to make sure that it, the the economic engine works, and that means the abc is generating funds for the common pool in a continuous way, and so for me, that is, that is the number one focus is. How do we get into? How do we get people to interact with the augmented bonding curve?

K

All the time, and- and this is goes back to that conversation of like who is the target audience if we provide secondary uh market um liquidity on secondary markets, normal joes, like you know, you and me are going to go to the secondary market, we're going to buy dc tokens, we're going to sell tec tokens, and none of that is going to be generated on the bonding curve.

K

This is most of this activity will happen by people who voluntarily want to pay that small fee or tax to donate, to the who are in to the to the organization who are value aligned, which is great. Otherwise, it's going to come from arbitrage and the spreads on arbitrage are, maybe you know for for it to be profitable, need to be three to four percent um at minimum.

K

But if we're taking five percent plus there's no real incentive for anybody to participate in arbitrage, especially on a chain where, on the gnosis chain, where we're only on one one market which is honey swap, and so I think, if we evaluate the system that we have set up right now, it is not set up for success for generating funds on the bonding curve, um and that's something that I think we should really truly evaluate.

K

um And I I because I do think that's having a healthy secondary market and having arbitrage, be the generator of funds to the common pool. Is the right way to go, but it takes infrastructure building it takes getting on multiple, multiple um exchanges.

K

It takes a lot of different pathways and I feel like we need to really focus on that area and then combine that with all the utility that we bring in long term to the token I think will be set, but this is kind of like we have to prove that the system works and uh yeah. That's just my thoughts on it I'll pass back to you too,.

A

C

A

I don't know if you want to uh share some thoughts.

D

Hi tim, can you hear me yeah? We can hear you well I'll. Just say well spoken, nate um a share of any of his opinions, and this is yeah another one I really haven't, haven't read exactly stock and I'm just behind so I'll. Let you guys get back to business, but.

A

A little better well and then efra, uh I think, you're, the only person who hasn't had a chance to talk. Yet, if you'd like to share some thoughts.

L

Oh yeah, well, uh yeah. I think it's really interesting to have this. This kind of data of information of transparency, so we can know like there's, uh there's room to improve yeah. I think yeah. We definitely have to discuss and and make some efforts to to improve the the revenue we and we produce here on the tc.

L

I think the ideas of um they didn't know the people we have services- and maybe the nfts are- are great ideas we can explore in the future, and I I like what what entity said about the the fundraising working group. I think that that could be something interesting that I haven't shown that you get a group of people that that's making some effort to to look for grants and and yeah.

L

I think that could be interesting to explore yeah in the future or we we definitely have to yeah to came up with so many ideas to to give the tc up.

A

Thanks for that, I just want. Maybe I want to share two more thoughts before I pass it back to usefd um the uh I know before. uh Why did you went on vacation? He sends his like. I think I have a great idea for like branding for tec. It's like mint tec, to sort of be a campaign to encourage people to make dac. So that was a very cute idea. I could see mint easy on a t-shirt um and then I just wanted to say it.

A

You know we've brought up this before and talking about how we can um increase revenue or look at different revenue streams, and I do like the idea of a financially focused working group who could look at revenue streams, current system, fundraising, just many different aspects of and many different possibilities.

A

I think, if to go to what you said if we need to like have a concrete actionable next step, forming a task force that will turn into a working group, whether it's like one person who wants to spearhead it or two people or three- is probably the most logical next step, um passing back to uzip.

B

Yeah next time I actually want to point out like what nate was saying- and I I think like after you know like it seems like water is going to pass so maybe like what we do.

B

uh So I was chatting with people that I think he was chatting with jeff uh like what, if we, you know, turn off like the bonding curve and then uh people is operating on the secondary market.

B

But then we have uh like only the tc could use the common pool for arbitrage so like, even if you know, if, if a whale sells all his tokens on honey on honey, swap then yeah the price is going to go down so fast, but then he's actually going to lose a lot of money and then the commons is going to get all the all the arbitrage opportunity and the price is also going to come up again, and I mean I I don't know like.

B

If we like, of course like it's, not uh it's not a suggestion. What I'm doing is just a thought, like someone with more knowledge should uh say like what what could be the consequences of doing something like that. But uh my first thought is like yeah like the. If the commons get the arbitrage, then that's for sure, like revenue, that's only getting uh for the commons are not for bots or other kinds of agents and.

D

I just want to backstep.

H

Up on this, this is how banks make money off. Etfs banks have like a license to be the sole producer of like an etf um stock. Right that, like let's say it represents gold and or silver jp morgan, runs the silver etf right and when the silver etf price goes up, they're the only ones authorized to create more etfs and so they'll create more to etfs and then just sell them on the market and take that revenue, and I use that revenue to run the the actual etf and then, when etf.

H

When the etf is uh um goes down, they actually will buy etfs off the open market and then go sell. And then um you know, they'll actually sell silver and then buy etfs, also destroy them, and they make profit off of these. This volatility and they're.

C

D

H

To make profit off the volatility, so it's.

D

H

um It's definitely a great way I mean if banks are doing it, you know there's money. So uh it's a it's a great way. It's a really a great long, midterm solution that we will. We should consider.

B

And then going back to conviction voting I mean I would like to make it a bit harder to pass proposal. It would also be like uh declare of intentions, like we say like okay, it's harder so be more wise. Who are you using the budget because it's very important, I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I feel like yeah making just.

D

B

Harder to proposals.

D

B

Like a declaration of intentions, and then we also use uh why we're making those harder and unnecessary like it's, because right now our revenue has been just going down very fast. uh 800 cases from the one inch of mars is like a hundred dollars.

B

I feel like it's almost zero and then 2k on favorite. I mean for starting ecommerce. It's I feel like it's. It's it's good, but uh it's still very low. So yeah like make the conviction, voting a bit harder and then say why we're doing a bit harder and then.

A

um I think your audio has stopped.

D

B

Hey I was talking about. Oh okay, uh I was just talking about like make a conviction. Voting a bit harder and it's like would be like a declaration of intentions like and then a foreign post, saying what I mean. Of course it has to be done, but then, when you make the proposal uh and the reason, why is like yeah to be more wisely?

B

Who are we using the funds and then having like you know, because right now, like it's uh seems like uh little, groups of people can pass proposals like uh when uh some tea processors are doing proposals. Then the te community, uh tokyo engineering is passing and then operations, like the group operator,.

D

And it seems like everyone is passing.

B

Proposals which is good, but at the same time like I would I would love to see like more uh connection between the token holders like uh okay. We want to pass that, but we also want to pass that and then all the agents inside the economy uh agree and also yeah, I feel like it would be. It would be nice. uh So we can use the money more wisely.

B

Anyone have an opinion.

K

Yeah I mean, even if we do make the conviction voting a little bit more difficult for things to pass. It's still one of those things where I I wish there was periods where conviction voting was open and which it was closed, or we had some type of kind of filter on the on the inputs to the conviction.

K

Voting, because there's just there's no way to turn it off and no way to say no uh and so accepting that as the fact um it opens it up to consistently being you know, drained of funds from legitimate projects who are looking to to to start up. You know and contribute to to our mission, and so it's really hard to say no. You can't participate in this because we're you know we're tapped out, and so this this comes back. I guess back to the funding problem.

K

So um I don't think this would be here if we did have didn't weren't issu weren't concerned with the funding issues, um but since we don't have a consistent, sustainable method, yet I think that yeah. This is an issue and perhaps making it difficult will slow it down, but it still doesn't give us control or the economy any type of control.

G

Yeah, I think I'm I'm usually pretty against uh hardening um the threshold for voters for what is to pass, uh because I think the vast majority of times it's more on on how do we interact and how, like maybe the culture of our communities like um do we even uh you know properly discuss the women um like we've said a couple of times that uh asynchronous communication with tc is a problem so like, if I'm not involved in that particular working group, and I'm not seeing the the the process of the proposal.

G

How easy it is for me to just go in the forum and get a a a nice discussion back and forth on. How do the funds are are being um how do how do they come up with that uh budget? Because, like you, can harden the proposals, but uh I'll say the stewards working group is going to make a single proposal so like it's not like, like have options to choose from I'm likely just going to power.

G

My if, if I think I needed these keywords- and maybe I don't agree with the budget but I'll- have to vote on that proposal- anyways you know. So I don't think uh hardening is, is probably the the best option or the only option to to sort of get better budgets on poor people.

K

One second that that I think conviction voting is great for prote projects, but perhaps operations should not ever flow through that.

J

I agree to that too.

A

Where would you see those funds coming from out of curiosity? What would an alternative method be.

K

I would, I would just say that a different voting method that allows us to have different, signaling and different forms of descent, where we can actually modify proposals if they're not bad and proposal creators can pull it down.

K

I think I think just having the conviction voting while we can put it up on the forum. um You know getting people who you know disagree with this. The type of spending is very hard to, and this is why I kind of like when it when you have the forum- and it's not anonymized, it's very hard to call somebody out, especially when it comes to being paid or like disagreeing with somebody's. uh You know compensation for their contributions.

K

That's not a really welcome environment to do that in and so having having it. You know kind of this vote of saying. No, I don't I disagree with that. It could be for a myriad of reasons, but at least starts the conversation or conviction voting you you can either just abstain or just let it be, and so um any form of vote that requires, or that has a potential for dissent in terms of cultural um tensions. I I would say, leave, leave it alone to a different voting method.

A

You have about five minutes left zip. Is there anything you want else you want to pose, or do you want to pass around to talk about conviction, voting changes? Do you want to propose a change that could be considered.

B

A

B

The proposal was to make uh a little bit harder uh with uh from np and made feedback. It seems like it's not a good idea. I don't know like. I also think like like like what cliff said like yeah conviction. Voting is going to make it harder. Anyways like it's going to be harder. Actually so uh yeah.

D

I mean I actually.

B

Probably that that's not enough time, but I would also love like uh if someone's like in the presentation see something like could be improved for the for the audit presentation or something like just reach out in the m's. uh I would actually love uh any kind of feedback to make this audit. Why better.

D

B

This is like the first part of the financial report, but then yeah like, if there's any feedback to prove it. I just think it.

A

Okay, welcome durgados, welcome mitch and welcome vibe. uh I think you guys are joining in, maybe didn't see the financial presentation and welcome stella. It looks like she just jumped into, um but we have about seven minutes left. So I just want to ask uh zepdy was suggesting maybe changing the conviction, voting parameters.

A

There seemed to be some um not support for that. Does anyone want to share a point of support for changing the conviction, voting parameters, to make it more difficult for um for proposals to pass.

D

A

Okay, five, four three, two one: okay cool! uh We have three minutes left, um I'm not sure what the best use of this time, but maybe open the door to the people who haven't spoken yet so mitch. If you have thoughts you want to share around the conversation was around the um financial report that septimus shared earlier um and then revenue in the tec and uh yeah. You can read some of the notes if you feel like sharing anything about that.

I

Yeah sorry, I totally lost track of this meeting and I apologize, um but I've been thinking a lot about financial sustainability for the tec and there's a lot of work to be done here, because I think we're bleeding cash, if I'm not mistaken, and so for all of this stuff that we're working on in the reward system and the proposal inverter. This is definitely at the top of my mind um how to bring in revenue for the tec and I'll leave it. There.

A

Okay, it's great that you see that.

C

Go ahead, oh I I just have a quick like I mean, I'm not sure about you know changing the cv params, but I do think maybe it's worthwhile for us to like have a organization around like redesigning the tributes and like have kind of like a focus like let's redesign the tributes consider like what is the right spread because, like I think, like you know, the incremental decrease that we're doing is makes sense, but maybe we actually just want to make it something less.

C

But then I think this requires a little bit of like analysis and uh like consider thoughtful consideration, and um I don't know maybe.

I

C

Of like, like spending the time, redesigning the cv params, we could have like a little param party or uh async kind of param party, where a few people work on proposals for changing.

K

Bring back bolsheviks, gambit.

C

It mitch prove it that it's good.

I

Look at that bread look at that spread lauren.

A

Go ahead advice you want to say something.

D

Yeah I I heard what nate was talking about and I quite agree that it's hard to descend when it's not anonymized, so uh that there is a solution we can try for that uh like we can, we can maybe make uh a form of sorts that posts on uh posts on the forum as like an anonymous user, uh or we could like there's a couple of like plugins for discourse. I'm pretty sure we could hack one together that just removes people's username for that post and allows people to do that.

D

So we could certainly do things like that. I think that could be a good first step uh like asking some more rationale behind the funding uh about changing cv parameters. I I don't have any hard views about it, uh but but I I don't think it's uh we should right now. I think it doesn't make. It makes sense.

A

Okay, we are thank you for sharing that uh we are at the top of the hour. There is an orientation call happening right now in the community. Call if you have some time, please do join it and um yeah I'll bring this to the stewards agenda. To try to see if we can have a small task force.

A

A small task force is already focused on the finance for the the tec. I think groups like this, like maybe a working group, is too much to start with, but certainly we can have a group of people who who get started and virgin into a working group.

H

And update your slides, update your slides I'll, take the slides, okay! Thank you.

A

Thanks zeptimus, that was very very.

D

It was a great.

A

Presentation, thanks for hosting this.

C