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From YouTube: Audit Committee - October 25, 2019 - Part 2 of 2
Description
*Due to technical difficulties during the meeting, audio could not be recorded in the first 10 minutes of this session.
Audit Committee, meeting 4, October 25, 2019 - Part 2 of 2
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=15651
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMLwmtSEmM
Meeting Navigation:
0:03:05 - Meeting resume
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A
What
to
what
action
the
committee
should
take
to
should,
but
I
didn't
get
a
chance
to
talk
to
any,
went
off
lying
about
this
because
of
the
size
of
the
whole
agenda,
but
the
should
we
be
bringing
in
each
department
to
ask
them
why
their
compliance
rate
is
so
low.
That's
my
first
inclination,
or
is
there
a
better
way
to
do
it?
Well.
B
I
think
that
would
be
for
this
city.
To
answer.
We've
tried
to
highlight
where
the
recommendations
haven't
been
implemented:
Union
Station,
of
course,
IT
facilities,
management
in
the
cleaning
contracts
so
and
then
the
benefits
so
I
think
it's
a
question
for
management.
We've
tried
to
do
what
we
could
do
to
highlight
it,
but
there
may
be
additional
context
that
the
management
can
provide
that.
A
C
If
I
can,
through
the
chair,
we
are
work
with
our
own
internal
audit
are
going
to
be
looking
at
all
the
recommendations
that
are
partially
or
not
started,
and
we're
gonna
be
tracking
those
and
we'll
be
asking
the
organization
to
address
them,
and
we
want
to
report
that
to
you
quarterly.
So
you
have
an
idea
of
what
progress
we
are
in
fact
making
on
those
outstanding
items
that
way
we
can
hold
management
accountable
for
taking
seriously
the
recommendations
at
the
AG's
meeting.
C
C
A
A
We
noted
that
real
estate
service
has
negotiated
a
settlement
with
one
occupant
that
was
approximately
1.9
million
less
than
the
amount
staff
originally
sent
to
the
occupant
in
2016
I.
Don't
know
whether
that
and
maybe
it's
in
here
I
did
and
I
didn't
see
it,
but
I,
don't
know
whether
that's
1.9
million
out
of
2
million
or
out
of
10
million,
and
is
there
a
story
behind
that
that
we
should
know
I'm.
D
Through
the
chair,
the
original
audit,
when
we
did
the
audit,
there
were
no
settlements
of
the
Union
Station.
Occupants
of
operating
costs
had
not
been
done
for
a
number
of
years,
and
so,
when
we
had
put
forth
the
initial
estimates
they
this
specific
occupant,
it
was
based
on
facilities,
management's
original
opening
position
with
that
occupant,
and
then
they
went
back
and
reviewed
agreements
and
interpretations
of
agreement,
and
then
this
would
be
the
number
that
they
settled
on,
but.
A
E
E
A
A
E
C
F
A
A
G
F
A
My
motion
is
that
the
Audit
Committee
recommend
that
the
City
Council
request
the
city
manager
to
report
to
City
Council
through
the
Audit
Committee
on
the
following
day,
steps
in
improving
effective
mechanism,
steps
in
providing
effective
mechanism
for
management
to
be
held
accountable
for
implementing
within
reasonable
and
identified
timelines
measures
which
they
have
agreed
to
take
in
order
to
implement
recommendations
from
the
Auditor
General
and
be
ensuring
appropriate
consequences.
When
information
provided
to
the
Auditor
General
is
not
fully
accurate.
A
So
it
sounds
to
me
like
the
city
manager
is
on
top
of
this,
and
you
know
I'm
expecting
that
by
the
end
of
this
term,
we
will
see
a
lot
more
accountability
in
this
organization.
I
I
also
hope
for
world
peace,
but
I
think
this
one
is
a
bit
more
achievable
because
we
do
have
control
over
it
and
things
that
we
have
control
over
may
never
be
perfect,
but
they
could
certainly
be
a
lot
better
than
they
currently
are.
G
I
I
just
want
to
move
my
motion.
I
agree
with
counsel
Fillion
and
it's
on
the
screen
that
the
Audit
Committee
direct,
the
city
manager
to
report
to
the
Audit
Committee
in
quarter.
First
quarter
of
2020,
with
an
update
on
the
implementation
of
all
outstanding
recommendations
for
city
divisions
and
corporate
services
and
Finance
and
Treasury
services
with
the
report
to
include
detail
plants
and
timelines
for
implementation
of
all
recommendations
not
yet
fully
implemented.
F
Okay,
we
are
on
a
you:
4.4
Toronto
Transit,
Commission
revenue
operations,
phase,
two
presto,
TTC
fare
equipment
and
presto
revenue
just
check
to
see
other
members
with
questions
on
that
I
think
we
cleared
that
up
that
there
weren't
any
there.
Any
members
wishing
to
speak
on
this
particular
item
with
not
I'll,
take
an
opportunity.
I
do
have
a
motion
on
it
fairly
straightforward.
F
F
But
one
thing
that
stood
out
to
me
in
the
report
was:
there
was
a
small
section
that
talked
about
the
differentiation
with
child
cards
in
appearance
and
some
of
the
following
steps
around
the
technicals
around
the
sound
and
and
how
they're
activated
in
the
card
readers
we're
not
necessarily
completed
and
I
recall
back
to
the
original
handling
of
the
first
audit
on
TTC
revenue
and
fare
inspection,
fare
evasion,
and
that
was
a
very
strong
finding
of
the
Auditor
General.
And
so
the
purpose
of
this
motion
is
twofold.
F
We've
asked
for
this
in
the
past
and
I'm,
not
sure
all
of
it
has
followed
through,
but
to
reiterate,
or
to
direct
the
city
manager
to
right
to
Metrolinx,
to
ask
that
the
change
be
made
to
the
child
cards
immediately,
because
we
know
what
the
other
audit
said,
and
we
know
that
this
audit
talks
about
the
mechanisms
and
which
such
a
change
would
take
place.
I
hope,
you'll
support
that
and
with
that
I
will
check
to
make
sure,
there's
anyone
else
asking
wishing
to
speak.
F
F
F
H
H
As
you're
probably
aware,
we
are
a
group
that
has
been
working
to
improve
the
data
collection,
quality
and
presentation
around
your
affordable
housing
programs.
We
launched
a
map
of
the
mayor's
housing
now
sites
back
in
January
of
this
year,
and
we've
already
reached
26,000
visitors
to
that
site.
It's
free
its
public
and
to
align
with
what
the
others
team
does
here.
We're
public
we're
open
we're
about
clarity
of
information,
we're
about
transparency
of
process
more
about
tracking
against
targets.
H
H
There
are
indicators
that
ineligible
people
are
not
consistently
being
identified
or
acted
on
when
it
comes
to
rent
and
gear
to
income
that
households
are
not
always
disclosing
their
property
ownership,
as
required
by
law.
Households
may
have
unreported
sources
of
income
and
assets
some
rent,
your
two
income
households
are,
are
likely
subletting
their
units.
There
is
irregular,
altered
or
falsified
documents.
You
have
weak
oversight
of
your
housing
providers
and
the
last
two
at
the
bottom.
H
Here
there
is
no
central
system
to
capture
data
requirements
for
rent
geared
to
income,
households
and
the
city
does
not
know
who
is
receiving
rent
geared
to
income
assistance,
even
though
this
is
key
information
to
stewardship
over
this
really
ties
in
to
the
previous
auditor's
report.
We
were
here
in
June.
We
were
talking
about
the
the
housing
waitlist
at
that
time,
where
you're
still
sending
paper
physical
snail
mail
out
to
people
before
that.
H
You
were
talking
about
tree
audits,
where
people
were
still
filling
in
paper
log
sheets
about
what
they
do
during
their
day
and
a
couple
of
years
ago,
the
auditor
was
having
to
drive
around
the
city,
picking
up
boxes
of
paper
documents
from
pavement
pavement,
paving
contracts
around
the
city.
You've
got
a
a
core
problem
here,
which
is
more
paper,
means
more
problems
in
the
city
and
we
need
to
find
a
way
to
get
away
from
paper
right
now.
Under
the
open
doors
program,
you
have
a
paper-based
housing
lottery
going
on.
It's
it's
open
right
now.
H
H
The
the
challenge
is
that
this
information
is
still
being
done
on
a
paper-based
system.
You
fill
in
a
paper
form
paper
form
get
sent
in
Toronto
started
a
recap
of
one
of
them
that
you
had.
Last
year
you
had
almost
4,000
people
expressed
interest.
You
had
2,700
applications
that
were
complete
and
eligible.
So
writing
that
first
cut
you
lost
26
percent
of
your
applicants
because
you're
doing
it
on
paper.
That
was
for
a
competition
for
75
of
these
housing
lottery
units.
H
H
Etta
was
out
here
this
morning
already,
if
there's
a
paper-based
process
somewhere
in
the
city,
huntin
kill
it
mandate
and
fun
to
kill
the
paper
policy
for
the
city
manager,
the
CTO
and
all
your
division,
heads
mandate
and
funded
IT,
evergreening
policy
for
the
city
manager,
CTO
and
all
division
heads
to
replace
your
ancient
systems
on
these
bottom
three.
If
somebody
who
was
looking
to
move
emotion,
these
bottom
three
costs
you
nothing
they're
just
best
practices
apply
every
recommendation
from
today's
Auditor
General's
report
report
on
rent
year
to
income
to
the
housing
lottery
process,
housing.
H
F
You
very
impressive
landing
a
jumbo
jet
on
a
postage
stamp
right.
Yes,
five
minutes,
452
thanks
for
talking
to
us
with
that,
I'll
ask
committee
members.
If
there
any
questions
I
do
have
I
do
have
one
I
think
so
you
didn't
talk
about
it
exactly
in
your
presentation,
but
in
the
report
today
the
auditor
raises
a
very
important
public
policy
question
and
that
is
how
do
you
account
for
assets
when
looking
at
the
position
on
a
list?
F
As
someone
mentioned
to
me,
you
know
like
you:
could
you
could
drive
a
Lamborghini
and
still
put
yourself
on
the
list
because
it's
focused
on
income
as
opposed
to
what
you've
got
and
what
you
owned
and
I
wondered
you're
familiar
with
the
data
world,
the
sources
of
data,
in
particular
open
data?
If,
if
council
goes
through
and
and
begins
to
look
at
that
particular
policy
piece,
do
you
have
any
recommendations
on
where
we
could
go
to
get
information
on
assets?
I.
H
Believe
you
have
some
information
around
that
that's
available
to
you
when
you're
applying
for
other
kinds
of
benefits.
So
if
you're
applying
I'm,
if
you're
playing
for
child
benefits
or
student
loans
and
things
you
have
to
disclose
that
information,
I
think
part
of
your
challenge
is
that
you'd
actually
don't
have
the
legislative
mandate
to
require
that
information
and
I
don't
whether
that
comes
from
a
federal
level
or
from
the
province.
H
There
are
certainly
things
that
you
can
write
into
your
legislation
that
require
electronic
disclosure
of
information.
One
of
the
things
the
Auditor
General
talks
about
in
this
report
is
people
who
are
clearly
faking
Bank
stumps
when
they're
submitting
paperwork.
So
the
fact
that
you
could
ask
for
I
want
your
electronic
version
of
your
tea
floor.
I
want
your
electronic
version
or
I
want
access
to
it
from
a
Thorat
ativ
source,
but
assets
is
very
very
hard
because
sometimes
the
asset
may
not
even
be
in
the
country.
F
Well,
there's
a
difference
between
auditing
and
and
performing
you
know
the
standard
qualification
function
that
a
clerk
would
go
through
when
they're
assessing
that
are
there
other
sources
that
that
could
be
searched.
You
know
and
I
take
to
know
that
I
think
there
was
an
example
in
here
where
the
auditor
talked
about
property
ownership,
there's
a
very
specific
example,
but
the
disposal,
the
property
and
the
date
around
the
qualification.
But
if
you
played
it
out
further,
you
think
about
it.
H
F
H
Help
you
would
be
able
to
pay
a
fee
to
get
it
many
cases.
Are
you
enter
into
agreements
with
other
other
government
agencies?
In
order
to
be
able
to
do
that,
I
mean
you
know.
The
government
Canada
has
FINTRAC,
which
is
used
for
identifying
unusual
bank
transfers,
whether
it
would
be
deemed
compliant
for
you
to
be
able
to
access
that
kind
of
information
for
qualifying.
People
for
for
benefits
is
a
totally
different
question
right.
H
H
H
D
D
In
our
presentation,
you
have
the
full
slide
deck
we're
not
going
to
go
through
all
the
slides,
but
we'll
give
you
a
quick
background
on
our
project,
the
audit
objectives
and
scope,
the
key
themes
identified
from
our
audit
and
then
a
very
high-level
key
audit
findings
and
recommendations.
We
will
go
through
those
very
quickly
and
so,
if
there's
any
slides
that
you
want
us
to
discuss
further,
we
can
always
come
back
to
them.
If
you
have
questions
our
office
is
conducting
a
series
of
audits
along
the
housing
continuum.
D
In
our
last
audit
opening
doors
to
stable
housing,
we
identified
opportunities
to
more
effectively
manage
the
centralized
social
housing
waitlist.
This
audit
focuses
on
the
administration
of
rgi
and
the
verification
of
each
households
ongoing
eligibility
for
rgi
assistance.
Although
we
expect
the
vast
majority
of
people
receiving
rgi
are
eligible.
Some
people
who
currently
receive
rgi
assistance
may
not
be
given
the
shortage
of
social
housing.
The
city
must
ensure
that
eligible
beep
people
with
the
greatest
need
are
prioritized.
D
The
city
is
the
designated
service
manager
under
the
Housing
Services
Act
and
is
responsible
for
administering
rgi
in
Toronto,
as
highlighted
in
the
map
on
the
slide,
the
city
has
delegated
rji
administration
to
over
200
housing
providers
spread
out
across
the
city,
regardless.
The
city
is
ultimately
accountable
for
any
delegated
duties,
including
ensuring
that
those
receiving
assistance
are
eligible.
D
So
the
issues
and
recommendations
can
be
categorized
in
three
key
themes.
First,
the
city
needs
to
be
to
be
sure
that
potential
eligibility
issues
are
identified
and
addressed.
Second,
the
city
needs
to
have
greater
involvement
and
take
greater
responsibility
for
key
aspects
of
RDI
administration
to
better
support
their
providers
by
one
verifying
eligibility
before
and
at
the
time.
I
You
ina,
the
first
theme
of
our
audit
looked
at
how
the
city
needs
to
be
sure
that
potential
eligibility
issues
are
identified
and
addressed.
During
our
audit,
we
identified
households
with
indicators
that
may
impact
their
eligibility
for
RDI
assistance.
This
includes
potential,
unreported
property
ownership
potential,
unreported
income
or
assets
potential,
unreported
occupants
of
RDI
units
or
subletting,
and
inconsistent
information
or
potential
irregular
documents
and
we'll
go
through
each
of
these
in
the
next
few
slides.
It
is
important
to
note
that
these
findings
were
not
isolated
to
one
provider.
They
were
present
across
most
providers.
I
We
reviewed
during
our
audit
we
identified
over
500
RDI
households
who
appear
to
have
them
linked
to
properties
within
Toronto.
We
reviewed
a
sample
of
60
of
these
households
and
found
that
approximately
15%
owned
properties.
Some
of
these
examples
are
in
our
report.
In
most
of
the
examples
the
properties
were
not
disclosed
and
continue
to
be
held
by
the
households
at
the
time
of
our
audit.
I
Also
in
the
sample
of
files,
we
reviewed
approximately
18%,
had
indicators
of
potential
unreported
sources
of
income
or
assets,
including
regular
or
significant
deposits
into
the
accounts
which
may
indicate
income
or
other
payments
and
transfers
to
other
bank
accounts
and
investment
accounts.
In
many
cases,
there
is
limited
evidence
on
file
to
indicate
that
staff
identified
or
asked
the
right
questions
to
probe
the
reasonableness
of
information
provided
by
households.
Even
where
questions
appear
to
have
been
asked,
the
follow-up
actions
were
not
timely
or
documented.
Any
unreported
income
means
the
tenant
will
be
under
charged
rent.
F
Sir
Nana's
informed
me
that
she's
got
some
conflicting
duties.
I
know
other
committee
members
have
expressed
a
bit
of
a
crunch
on
time
and
the
city,
manager
and
staff.
So
just
the
request
made
before
from
the
committee
is
given
the
time
that
we've
got.
Could
we
condense
the
presentation
a
little
bit?
We
still
have
to
hear
from
staff
and
there
be
some
questions
on
it.
I
think.
B
D
One
of
the
key
themes
is
that
the
city
should
take
a
more
central
role,
so
it's
our
view
that
it
would
be
more
effective
and
efficient
for
the
city
to
take
greater
responsibility
for
confirming
eligibility
and
verifying
income
and
assets
when
households
are
applying
for
and
obtaining
access
to,
our
GI
Assistance.
By
directly
performing
the
initial
review,
the
city
can
ensure
that
only
eligible
households
are
gaining
access,
preventing
eligibility
issues
before
they
occur.
D
We
also
recommend
enhancing
the
quality
of
reviews
by
leveraging
data
from
multiple
sources,
so
this
will
enable
the
city
to
be
able
to
more
effectively
identify
potential
RGA
eligibility
issues
that
need
to
be
followed
up
and
then
having
a
centralized
system
to
collect
and
maintain.
Data
would
allow
the
city
and
the
providers
to
have
easy
access
to
electronic
records
and
enable
the
city
have
more
efficient
and
effective
review
and
monitoring
of
household
eligibility.
F
J
Thank
you
to
the
committee
for
an
opportunity
to
present
and
thank
the
auditor
for
the
time
that
her
staff
have
spent
with
us.
I
think
one
of
the
things
I
want
to
say
first
off
is
that
these
systemic
issues
have
existed
for
a
really
long
time
in
s
sha
and
as
a
new
leader,
I'm
ready
to
take
on
immediate
and
direct
action
in
order
to
address
them.
J
The
responsibility
for
social
housing
has
been
transferred
to
the
city.
It
came
down
in
2002.
The
rgi
program
is
administered,
as
mentioned
by
the
auditor,
through
a
network
of
over
200
housing
providers,
largely
not-for-profit
and
through
TCH
see
the
complex
provincially
controlled.
Rgi
rules
have
been
in
place
for
more
than
twenty
years,
and
they
do
contain
about
sixty
exemptions
that
housing
providers
have
to
navigate
through
in
order
to
determine
the
correct
amount
of
rent
s.
Sha
has
long
been
advocating
to
the
provincial
government
to
modernize
and
simplify
the
system.
J
We're
really
happy
to
let
you
know
that
we
have
been
successful
in
that
advocacy
and
in
June
the
province
announced
some
legislative
changes
that
are
going
to
make
a
significant
difference
to
us.
We
will
be
taking
steps
to
improve
our
processes
and
our
oversight,
and
it
is
clear
that
we
need
to
do
a
better
job.
J
S.
Sha
is
already
taking
action
and
we
will
prioritize
our
action
in
three
areas.
Over
the
next
90
days,
we
will
be
focusing
on
communication.
In
fact,
our
team
has
already
sent
communication
to
all
our
housing
providers.
We've
shared
the
audit
with
them,
and
we've
shared
our
intent
to
commence
immediate
reviews
of
our
GI
files.
J
G
Subleasing
you're
reviewing
that
to
the
driver's
license,
cuz
I
I
know
there
I
know
a
lot
of
tenants
that
are
subleasing
for
a
fact.
I've
been
told
and
I
know,
there's
quite
a
few
out
there,
so
by
showing
your
driver's
license.
So
how
can
we
control
that?
Because
it's
happening
and
a
lot
of
it
is
happening
yeah
so.
B
I
think
the
first
step
is
to
be
top
of
mind
and
to
be
looking
for
it
and
then
getting
in
underneath
it.
We
simply
did
a
review
to
look
for
the
same
names
in
different
units
and
and
started
a
review
like
that.
That's
just
a
very
simple
way,
and
then
we
started
to
dig
in
and
investigate
each
one
and
we'll
continue
do
that.
So
I
really
think
it
starts
with
taking
the
data
and
analyzing
it
on
spreadsheets
to
see
what
the
anomalies
and
identifying
those
kinds
of
things
it's
one
way
you.
G
B
Can
happen,
but
if
you
start
there
and
then
you
open
up
an
investigation
into
each
one
and
you
actually
did
go,
we
did
actually
TCH
see
did
a
great
job.
They
went
face-to-face
to
get
right
in
there
and
they
did
a
great
job
there.
So
I
think
the
first
thing
is
being
aware
of.
It.
Second
is
to
identify
at
a
high
level
and
high
risk,
and
then
third
is
to
verify
and
once
they're
identified,
the
verification
is
going
well.
Counselor.
J
If
I
could
just
add
as
well,
that's
for
us
that's
the
importance
of
collaborating
with
that
actual
housing
provider.
The
one
that's
on
the
ground,
difficult
for
us
to
know,
what's
happening
in
the
units,
but
the
housing
provider
sees
the
daily
comings
and
goings
and
so
working
together
with
them
on
individual
files,
but
also
doing
what
the
auditor
did
where
you
take
a
look
sort
of
from
a
mile
high
at.
Where
are
the
similarities
across
the
system.
A
B
It's
really
for
management
to
demonstrate
through
their
results
and
actions
that
the
movement
that
will
occur
on
the
file.
What
I
can
say
is
that
my
team
have
already
provided
to
management,
probably
a
thousand
items
of
that
have
to
be
investigated
and
they
should
be
prioritized
and
investigated.
But
it's
really
going
to
be
for
management
to
demonstrate
each
quarter.
What
the
movement
on
the
file.
F
What
happens
if
someone
is
detected
in
a
situation
of
fraud,
they're
subletting,
the
household
they
forge
documents,
they
haven't
declared
some
property
I.
Think
if
I've
got
it
right,
there's
an
eligibility
review
officer
or
officers
and
have
I
got
that
right.
Is
that
enabled
under
provincial
regulation?
And
then
what
is
the
outcome
of
that
process
there
they
ask
to
leave
the
home.
Is
the
rgi
removed
and
they're
allowed
to
stay?
Can
you
explain
to
us
what's
the
penalty
so.
J
We
we
don't
have
an
eligibility
review
officer.
That
is
one
of
the
suggestions
made
by
the
Auditor.
It's
a
position
that
holds
additional
responsibilities
and
abilities
than
our
regular
staff.
So
we're
certainly
looking
at
what
the
opportunity
is
for
us
to
develop
that
role.
Basically,
if
we're,
if
you're
found
to
have
misrepresented
your
income
in
some
way
and
you're
not
eligible
for
rgi,
we
will
remove
the
rgi
if
the
well,
hopefully,
the
tenant,
is
able
to
pay
market
rent
as
opposed
to
losing
their
household.
J
F
I
want
to
understand
what
the
incentive
is
for
somebody
to
to
be
forthcoming
on
all
the
information
right.
If
there's,
if
today,
there's
very
little
downside
of
making
a
mistake
on
the
forms,
let's
call
it
a
mistake
for
now
you
know
like
why
would
they
worry
if
there
is
no
outcome,
but
it
sounds
like
the
ero
is
going
to
raise
the
stakes,
because
that
means
somebody
can
get
into
the
weeds
and
figure
out
what
the
bar
is
for.
Somebody
that
has
made
an
error
versus
somebody
that
has
intentionally
mislead
us.
J
F
Think
this
goes
really
to
the
heart
of
public
confidence
in
the
system.
I
think
there
was
an
example
in
here
where
there
was
a
line
that
said:
uber
I
didn't
I'll
go
further.
You
know
tenants
in
a
building-
that's
maybe
Toronto
Community
Housing
say
you
know,
people
who
live
in
that
unit
over
there
they
work
for
cash,
they've,
got
bags
of
money
and
and
they're
being
treated
the
same
as
me,
and
I
don't
have
bags
of
money.
How
do
you
resolve
that
situation?
Because
you
know
the
stories
are
out
there?
F
We
hear
it
as
councillors,
citizens
here
those
type
of
accusations
and
finally
we're
seeing
you
know,
there's
a
system
here
where
we're
gonna
get
really
clever,
with
getting
information
and
trying
to
catch
those
situations.
I
just
I
want
to
feel
assured,
as
a
committee
member,
that
you
know,
there's
going
to
be
a
consequence
when
somebody
is
caught
doing
that
type
of
stuff.
J
Well,
I
think
one
of
the
first
lines
of
defense.
As
council
Annunziata
said
you
know
it's
neighbors
and
tenants.
That
know
what's
happening.
So
how
do
we
ensure
that
they
have
the
adequate
information
to
know
when
they
can
report
where
and
when
they
can
report
fraud
so
that
we
can
investigate
those
particular
cases
that
aren't
coming
up
through
our
the
oversight
that
we
put
into
place
so
I
think
that's
one
of
the
ways
that
that
we
can
enable
that.
J
So
we
get
more
opportunities
to
to
hear
from
people
who
have
that
experience,
and
then
it
is
implementing
a
better
oversight
system
so
that
we
are
doing
both
the
individual
reviews
with
housing
providers
about
what's
happening
at
their
at
their
site,
but
then
also
doing
the
the
overview
of
the
system
as
a
whole.
To
look
for
the
similarities
and
we're
we
seeing
common
names
coming
up
and
those
types
of
things.
F
I
also
want
to
ask
one
other
question,
though,
and
it
was
just
around
that
idea
of
looking
at
assets
of
individuals,
so
the
the
auditor
I
think
in
the
report
has
raised
interesting
public
policy
questions
about
you
know:
how
do
we
consider
what
you
own
in
determining
how
badly
you
need
RG
I?
If
I
read
this
correctly,
that
we
only
look
at
the
ownership
of
property
and
maybe
even
the
ownership
of
property
in
Toronto
or
Ontario,
and
you
can
help
guide
me
on
that.
F
But
I,
don't
think
these
recommends
is
recommend
the
recommendation,
strengths
and
looking
at
those
assets,
the
ones
that
are
prescribed
the
real
property
but
I'm
not
sure
it
goes
so
far
as
to
put
a
public
policy
question
before
Council
and
I
wondered
what
your
take
is
on
that.
Do
you
see
a
day
where,
as
council
will
turn
our
mind
to
that?
Is
there
a
regulatory
framework?
Is
it
a
council
policy
decision?
Can
we
say,
look
your
bank
account
has
has
six
figures
in
it.
F
J
We
we
are
grappling
with
that
right
now,
we're
in
the
process
of
doing
a
jurisdictional
scan
because
its
managed
differently
across
the
province.
Some
jurisdictions
have
asset
and/or
income
limits,
so
we're
looking
at
what
would
be
appropriate
for
Toronto
and
then
we'll
be
bringing
those
recommendations
forward
to
Council
for
consideration.
So.
F
So
if
I
can
play
that
back,
there
are
other
jurisdictions
in
the
province
that
have
of
asset
thresholds,
but
we
at
the
City
of
Toronto
don't
have
that
policy
layer
in
in
place.
For
whatever
reason
history
took
to
date,
we
don't
look
at
somebody's
holdings,
we
look
at
their
income
and
if
they
own
property,
is
it
is
it
in
Toronto
or
is
it
in
Ontario
or
anywhere.
J
F
J
F
G
F
Thank
You
counselor
anyone
else
wishing
to
speak
so
I
will
then
ask
for
a
vote
on
Chesterfield
and
you're
good
with
that.
These
are
reporting.
These
are
report,
backs
I'm,
so
ask
for
a
vote
on
the
amendments
all
of
those
in
favor
any
opposed
that
is
carried
and
then
on
the
item
as
amended
all
of
those
in
favor
any
opposed,
and
that
is
carried.
F
Thank
you,
so
seven
with
was
withdrawn,
so
we
are
at
a
you
four
point:
eight
Auditor
General's
Office
2020
operating
budget,
and
we
were
gonna
hear
that
in
conjunction
with
au
4.9,
which
is
the
Auditor
General's
Office
2020
work
plan
and
we
do
have
a
speaker
registered
on
au
4.9.
So
since
we're
considering
them
together,
I
will
ask
Derrick
Moran
to
join
us
at
the
front.
K
Just
want
to
say
by
me
speaking
at
this
meeting,
this
shall
not
be
deemed
to
be
in
any
way
my
consent
expressed
or
implied
in
doing
so
is
frog
of
lesser
majesty,
the
queen,
long
liver
majesty,
the
queen.
Let
the
record
show
I
do
not
consent
to
the
unconstitutional
searches
violating
section
8
of
the
Constitution
Act
1982
that
are
currently
taking
place
here
at
Toronto.
City
Hall,
as
the
province
has
never
given
the
City
of
Toronto
express
statutory
authority
to
do
this.
K
So
when
this
reporter
says
City
Council
formally
requested
those
agencies
and
corporations
that
are
outside
of
the
Auditor
General's
jurisdiction
to
allow
the
Auditor
General
to
undertake
any
audits
that
she
deems
necessary.
City
Council
also
requested
that
the
City
of
Toronto
Act
to
be
amended
to
extend
the
Auditor
General's
jurisdiction
to
include
the
Toronto
Police
Services
Board,
the
Toronto
Public
Library
Board
and
the
Board
of
Health.
This
change
was
not
included
as
part
of
the
revisions
to
the
act.
K
K
This
will
allow
her
to
identify
and
prioritize
potential
future
audits
for
the
Toronto
Public
Library
board
to
consider
the
Toronto
Police
Services
Board
has
not
invited
the
Auditor
General
to
complete
or
risks
assessment,
so
this
is
from
an
email
that
I
recently
sent
to
the
city
manager
Chris
Murray
over
here,
which
I
also
copied
to
the
Auditor
General
hi
Chris.
So
I
noticed
you
taking
notes.
While
I
spoke
today
at
Budget
Committee
before
single
cent
of
that
nine
hundred
and
ninety
thousand
dollars
is
spent
on
the
street
in
front
of
the
Northern
District
library.
K
K
I
wouldn't
sink
another
cent
into
the
Northern
District
and
get
this
they're
set
to
spend
about
another
thirteen
million
dollars
on
that
place
over
the
next
decade,
myself
I.
Take
that
close
to
fourteen
million
dollars
combined
and
just
build
a
new,
proper
two-story
library
next
to
near
the
Toronto
Community
Center
complex
or
if
councillor
Cole
wants
to
save
the
and
Johnson
building,
so
bad
move
the
northern
district
library
into
there
as
that
it
is
a
two-story
building,
and
can
you
tell
mark
a
minute?
K
You
know
I
said
how,
if
he
drops
by
to
see
meritorious
and
dare
to
meet
what
happened
with
the
ramp
at
the
Northern
District
library
was
just
a
mini
bid-rigging,
paving
scandal
by
another
name
which
took
over
a
year
a
year
to
finally
complete
it's
just
a
ramp.
You
go
up
the
ramp.
You
go
down
the
ramp,
I
respectfully
direct
the
Auditor
General
to
investigate
what
happened
with
the
ramp
at
the
northern
district
library
before
the
Toronto
Public
Library
is
allowed
to
waste
almost
another
1
million
dollars
on
that
place.
K
Another
thing
about
the
Toronto
Public
Library
Board
is
that
City
Council
has
somehow
allowed
them
to
get
away
with
not
filming
their
meetings
and
making
them
part
of
the
public
record
on
YouTube.
So
right
off
the
bat,
the
Toronto,
the
library
board,
flies
under
the
radar
and
gets
to
avoid
further
scrutiny.
A
member
of
the
public,
the
media,
nor
the
Auditor
General
here
has
the
chance
of
getting
to
see
what
was
said
at
their
meetings.
By
going
back
and
watching
the
recording
know
something
about
the
Toronto
Police
Services
Board.
K
K
It's
complete
opposite
of
the
explanation
of
a
deputation
that
your
own
deputy
city
clerk,
John
Elvidge,
gave
to
me
by
email,
so
I
say
to
myself:
I
email,
the
police
board
and
I
say:
hey
I
want
to
go
verify
for
myself.
Where
did
you
guys
get
the
definition
for
deputation
that
you
use
right?
I
can't
find
it
in
a
legal
dictionary,
normal
dictionary,
so
I
want
to
verify
for
myself.
What's
the
source
of
your
definition
for
deputation,
you
know
what
the
trolly
Services
Board
said
when
they
got
back
to
me.
K
We
can't
give
you
that
information,
because
a
solicitor
client
privilege
can
you
believe
that,
over
a
deputy
over
a
definition,
they
invoke
solicitor
client
privilege.
So
if
they're
hiding
something
as
simple
as
that
from
you
think
about
it,
what
else
are
they
hiding
at
the
Toronto,
Police
Services
Board,
so
I
just
wanted
to
mention
legal
services,
society
versus
British,
Columbia
information
and
Privacy
Commissioner
2003
Court
of
Appeal
British
Columbia,
said
that,
in
my
opinion,
should
not
overrule
the
public's
right
to
know
how
tax
dollars
are
being
spent.
F
You
Derek:
are
there
any
questions
of
the
speaker,
seeing
none
Derek
I'll
say
thank
you
and
I
know
that
you
know
that
there's
a
fraud
and
waste
hotline
and
please
don't
feel
shy.
I
saw
the
auditor
taking
notes
at
the
beginning
when
you
were
talking
about
the
the
library
ramp,
but
but
it's
it's
a
good
example
and
a
good
message
for
everybody.
Listening
that
there's
a
really
good
gateway.
You
don't
have
to
come
down
to
the
community,
there's
a
good
great
way
to
bring
those
observations
through
and
they
are
looked
at,
but.
F
B
So
I've
been
asked
to
keep
my
comments
to
about
five
minutes,
so
I
just
wanted
to
let
you
know
that
we
have
been
delivering
on
the
projects
that
were
we
you
know
identified
last
year.
We
start
our
risk
assessment
process.
This
year
the
budget
will
be
asking
for
is
really
the
floor,
which
is
the
budget
we
have
now,
which
is
point
zero,
zero,
five,
which
is
one
twentieth
of
one
percent
of
the
city's
operational
budget.
So
it's
one
twentieth
of
1%
with
the
added
programs
that
we're
being
asked
for
today.
B
Cyber
security
update,
quarterly
plus,
potentially
other
higher
any
other
higher
risk
cyber
areas
plus
looking
at
police.
What
we're
going
to
be
asking
for
is
an
increase
from
point:
zero,
zero.
Five.
Two
point:
zero:
zero,
five,
five.
So
it's
basically
about
about
the
permanent
being
the
point:
zero:
five!
That's
our
permanent
base
that
we
need,
but
just
a
little
bit
more,
which
is
about
ends
up
being
about
seven
hundred
thousand
to
to
cover
off
those
added
risks
that
were
to
get
our
program.
B
You
know
full-time
around
the
clock
to
get
any
outstanding
risks
identified
and
address
in
a
proactive
way,
so
that
management
can
continue
to
act
so
there's
the
cyber
risk.
The
other
risk
is
our
fraud
risk.
We
are.
We
have
a
great
fraud
team,
but
capacity
is
always
a
challenge
and
then
library,
police
and
health
are
the
other
areas
that
we
want
to
look
at.
So
that's
a
request.
Thank.
F
B
Thank
you.
We
have
this
year
finished
our
engineering
project,
where
we
did
identify
control
type
control
areas
that
had
to
be
tightened
up
to
make
sure
that
they
would
not
be
going
over
in
some
of
the
tenders
as
they
did
change
orders.
We
are
going
to
be
doing
certain
contract
areas,
snow
removal,
those
kinds
of
areas
so
we'll
continue
to
monitor
on
a
on
a
project.
I
guess
a
project
theme
basis.
If
the
committee
would
like
an
analysis
of
which
contracts
go
over
in
general,
I
thought
that
was
important.
I.
B
F
F
F
A
We
have
several
reports
dealing
with
recommendations
not
being
implemented
outstanding
recommendations,
etc,
etc.
So
there
have
already
been
assurances
and
motions
and
adopted
on
that
subject.
Broadly,
is
there
are
there
additional
items
in
this
report
that
haven't
been
covered
and
that
require
further
attention
other
than
what's
already
been
done?
This
meeting.
B
Thank
you
for
the
question.
I
think
I
think
everybody
understands
where
the
potential
challenges
are
and
I
also
think
that
the
city
management
with
their
new
system
that
they
are
bringing
forth
and
the
reporting
in,
is
going
to
be
helpful
for
them
and
helpful
for
us.
So
we'll
maybe
look
for
next
quarter
and
see.
You
know
how
that's
working,
I,
think
so
I
think
I
think
everybody
has
the
message
and
I
think
we
can
probably
even
before,
because
I
think
they've
got
the
system
under
way
and
and
yeah.
F
Campbell
did
you
want
to?
Did
you
want
to
add
to
that?
Just
about
how
I
know
it's
the
other
report,
but
this
is
the
consolidation
of
everything
the
consolidation,
but
the
other
report
is
going
to
pick
up.
The
consolidation
has
a
time
lag
at
which
you
report,
madam
auditor,
but
that's
great.
Your
report
addresses
concerns
immediately.
I'm,
sorry,
I
think
this
will
help
with
a
question
sure.
L
In
terms
of
our
database,
we've
put
together
right
now,
it
includes
all
recommendations
up
to
the
last
audit
committee
meeting,
we'll
get
it
populated
with
the
ones
out
of
this
meeting
as
well.
So
in
other
words
with
them,
the
other
journals
follow-up
schedule.
It's
usually
about
Beverly
quickly
from
among
18
months
to
two
years,
so
we'll
be
tracking
them
in
advance
of
that
very
proactively.
So,
in
other
words,
management
within
the
city,
the
the
DCM
team
Chris.
We
can
more
proactively
track
and
assess
the
adequacy
of
progress
made
against
those
recommendations
and
the
action
plans.
L
F
And
if
I,
if
I
may,
argument
the
questioning
just
to
help
with
this,
the
if
I've
got
the
genesis
of
a
you
4.10
right.
This
is
the
other
generals.
2019
consolidated
status
report
correct
the
Auditor.
General
has
and
will
continue
to
report
on
tranches
of
outstanding
or
resolved
audit
recommendations,
and
that
is
the
council
process
to
discharge
those
recommendations
once
they're
completed.
However,
they
occur
in
tranches,
so
you're
going
back
to
December.
31St
2017
is
your
benchmark
on
this
report,
because
the
other
items
are
too
new
and
are
being
worked
on.
I've
got
that
right.
F
The
other
case,
though,
which
is
new,
and
it's,
although
it's
straying
into
another
report,
is
that
we
will
have
management
come
to
us
with
a
red
hot,
fresh
list
of
audit
recommendations
being
tracked
comprehensively
right
throughout
all
the
way
back
in
time.
So
it's
an
extensive
list,
but
the
difference
is.
Is
it
will
pick
up
audit
recommendations
almost
as
immediately
as
they're
put
out,
so
we
will
have
a
hot
list.
G
F
F
I've
got
a
motion,
but
are
there
any
questions
on
11,
so
I'll
read
the
full
title:
au,
4.11,
Auditor,
General's,
Office
forensic
unit
status
report
on
outstanding
recommendations.
Any
members
wishing
to
ask
questions
on
this,
seeing
none
any
members
wishing
to
speak
on
this
scene.
None
therefore
I'll,
speak
I
have
a
very
brief,
and
this
is
I
gained.
Another
follow
up
request,
but
I
may
ask
put
it
on
the
screen.
F
So
we're
gonna
ask
the
CFO
and
treasurer
to
report
to
the
committee
at
the
next
meeting
on
the
one
high
priority
outstanding
recommendation
that
is
mentioned
in
this
report,
which
is
improving,
reporting
and
monitoring
of
employee
benefits,
and
the
clerk
has
inserted
the
actual
wording
out
of
the
report.
Just
so
we're
clear
on
that.
It's
a
it's
a
request
to
the
next
meeting,
all
those
in
favor
of
the
amendment
any
opposed
that
is
carried
and
on
the
item
is
amended
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed.
F
F
G
A
This
was
something
I
had
intended
to
do
myself,
but
it'd
be
much
better.
If
someone
else
did
it
I
my
suspicion
was
because
the
limit
is
500,000
that
there
are
probably
a
lot
that
committed
four
hundred.
Ninety
nine
thousand,
so
I
asked
for
a
list
and
was
about
two,
and
there
are
a
lot
I,
don't
know
what
percentage
of
them
are
close
to
the
five
hundred
thousand,
but
there
were
quite
a
few,
so
I
wanted
to
have
a
look
at
that.
A
A
B
F
F
F
So
I
had
my
own
I.
Don't
need
to
speak
to
it
for
very
long,
but
it's
quite
clear.
We
were
going
to
recommend
a
city
council
that
City
Council
asked
the
Toronto
Police
Services
Board
and
the
Toronto
Public
Health
Board,
to
invite
the
Auditor
General
to
complete
a
risk
assessment
of
operations
in
order
to
inform
potential
audit
projects
on
future
work
plans.
F
So
the
auditor,
in
her
report
to
us,
octave
out
her
jurisdiction
and
made
note
that,
due
to
the
structure
and
the
governance
that
we
have
she's
not
able
to
audit
these
two
entities
the
same
way
that
she
does
other
departments
of
the
city,
essentially
those
boards
need
to
invite
her
in
this
request
is
not
a
complete
opening
of
the
doors.
It's
it's
really
just
the
auditor
come
here.
F
A
F
To
be
honest,
I'd
have
to
ask
the
Auditor
General
about
how
they
responded.
I
just
know
that
this
had
come
up
in
other
previous
commentary
from
the
Auditor
General,
and
we've
asked
it
in
various
ways.
These
two
entities,
please
you
know,
allow
the
auditor
just
to
conduct
that
risk
assessment,
but
they
have
to
take
that
step
to.
Let
us
say
that
the
board,
though
I
understand.
B
Response
from
the
police
board,
I
was
invited
to
do
an
analysis
of
carding
and
level
three
and
four
strips
search,
sir
searches,
but
there
was
work
already
under
that
in
those
areas
by
other
bodies.
So
it
the
value
for
money
at
this
stage
was
not
good
to
duplicate
at
the
same
time.
But
there's
been
changes
at
the
board
and
I'm
going
I've
already
sent
a
letter
to
the
police
board,
I'm,
hoping
that
they'll
invite
me,
and
hopefully
they
will
see
the
work
we've
been
doing
and
invite
us
in.
G
F
F
Okay,
so
we've
got
two
amendments
on
the
floor.
All
I'll
ask
the
committee
to
consider
a
councillor.
Annunziata
is
amendment
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed.
That's
carried
got
my
amendment
on
the
floor
as
amended
by
a
councillor
Fillion
suggestion
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed,
and
that
is
carried
and
on
the
item
as
amended
all
those
in
favor
any
opposed,
and
that
is
carried
I,
think
that
is
it
so
meeting
adjourned.
Thank
you.
Everybody
for
all
of
your
attentions
been
a
long
day
and
I
appreciate
everyone.