►
Description
City Council, meeting 34, November 8, 2017 - Part 1 of 3 - Morning Session
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=11867
Part 2 of 3 - Afternoon Session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIXzCBs3MEw#t=8m18s
Part 3 of 3 - Evening Session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KJQvV_dbqw#t=5m15s
Meeting Navigation:
0:07:06 - Meeting resume
B
But
these
people
are
important
to
the
psychology
of
the
city,
they're
important
to
the
reputation
of
the
city
they're
important
to
to
just
life
in
the
city,
a
place
that
you
know
places
a
premium
on
creativity,
but
also
on
the
kind
of
creativity
that
can
come
from
sports
and
Roy.
Holladay
was
one
of
those
players
who
had
the
good
fortune
to
be
extremely
talented.
He
had
to
fight
his
way
into
the
major
leagues
of
baseball
and
into
a
starting
position
with
the
Blue
Jays
and
then
blossomed
into
probably
the
greatest
starting
pitcher.
B
Ever
but
at
the
same
time
never
had
the
good
fortune
to
play
on
a
team
that
made
the
playoffs,
so
he
was
a
as
loyal
a
bluejay
and
as
loyal
a
fan
of
Toronto
as
you
could
possibly
have,
and
if
you
read
some
of
the
things
that
he
and
his
wife
have
said
about
living
here
and
being
part
of
the
Blue
Jays
organization
and
just
being
part
of
the
city,
he
became
like
many
athletes.
Do
who
come
here
and
many
artists
for
that
matter.
B
To
strengthen
leadership
capacity
in
the
arts
sector
to
support
individual
leaders
as
they
develop
collaborative
solutions
in
this
area
and
to
generally
invigorate
and
inspire
the
entire
arts
and
culture
sector
which
is
so
important
to
us.
And
if
you
look
at
the
list,
I
won't
read
all
of
their
well.
Maybe
I
will
because
it'll
just
take
one
second
to
do:
Keith,
Bennie
senior
manager
at
all
learning,
Toronto
International,
Film,
Festival,
Jonathan,
bunts
arts,
presenter
musician,
writer,
editor
Suzanne,
Park
assistant
curator
at
the
Art
Gallery
of
York.
B
C
You
thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
Good
morning,
everyone
Oh
before
you
on
your
desks.
You
will
see
a
beautiful,
beautiful,
key
chain
that
says
rent
safety
Oh
on
it
and
I
just
want
to
acknowledge
that
this
council
took
a
leadership
role
in
championing
tenants
across
the
city
50%,
perhaps
over
50%
of
the
population
of
Toronto,
and
now
we
have
our
own
SWAT
team,
they're
out
there
supporting
your
residents.
All
they
have
to
do,
or
all
you
have
to
do
is
call
3-1-1
and
they
will
go
and
inspect
a
building.
A
A
Members
of
council,
we
will
now
review
and
confirm
the
order
paper
to
this
point
counts
as
completed
103
items.
There
are
57
items
left
on
the
agenda
plus
34
member
motions
council
has
decided
to
consider
audit
items.
Ten
point
to
ten
point
three
and
ten
point:
four
and
review
of
the
municipal
licensing
and
standards:
division,
management
of
business
licenses,
an
audit
item
1011
on
a
review
of
complaint.
A
Regarding
the
TTC
briefing
note
as
the
first
items
of
business
this
morning,
those
items
will
be
followed
by
item
LS
22.1
on
the
results
of
the
consultation
on
holiday
shopping
members.
City
councils
also
started
but
not
completed.
Item
IX
28.5
on
the
toronto
police
transformational
task
force
report.
We
will
return
to
that
item
later
in
the
meeting
City
Council
will
consider.
Member
motions
at
2:00
p.m.
I
will
now
take
the
release
of
member
holz.
Please
put
your
name
under
request
to
question
staff.
E
Madam
Speaker,
on
page
three
I,
have
held
e^x
twenty
eight
point,
one
to
update
and
next
steps
on
the
potential
relocation
of
the
Etobicoke
Civic
Center.
My
colleagues,
councillor
holiday,
has
a
motion
that
I
understand
my
colleague,
councillor
Philo
is
also
fine
with
and
if
he
could
place
that,
and
we
could
vote
on
that
amendment
I
think
we
could
release
the
item.
A
D
E
G
A
A
C
A
C
C
C
A
C
A
F
E
On
a
point
of
privilege,
I
guess
the
number
of
the
items
that
my
colleague
councillor
matt,
lo
released
in
a
number
of
others
that
were
under
new
business
are
ones
that
in
the
past
would
have
probably
been
walked
on
to
the
agenda
as
they
were
settlements
in
advance,
and
we
had
asked
that
counsel
for
staff
to
try
and
bring
them
forward
earlier.
So
we
could
read
them
so
I
wanted
to
at
least
acknowledge
that
they
are
doing
that
and
trying
to
get
them
here.
E
There
are
a
few
that
we
still
had
to
walk
on
a
couple
of
mine
as
well,
because
they
came
very
late,
but
we
are
getting
much
better
and
with
mr.
Lynch
in
there
and
the
staff
in
each
of
the
divisions
in
our
legal
department.
It's
nice
to
see
them
here
in
advance,
so
we
have
a
chance
to
read
them.
Okay,.
A
F
K
F
A
A
F
F
F
M
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker
have
a
few
questions
and
then
the
first
one
is
for
the
Auditor
General.
First
of
the
most
think
so
much
for
your
report
and
your
very
comprehensive
recommendations
with
the
we
regard
to
do
the
holistic.
There
is
a
section
that
you
know
that
that
the
seal
relies
on
a
creative
and.
M
A
I
It's
on,
thank
you
and
through
you,
madam
chair.
It's
an
area
that
needs
to
be
addressed.
I
do
know
that
staff
have
been
aware
of
some
concerns
in
that
area
for
a
while,
since
about
at
least
2014,
but
in
my
view
the
bylaw
may
need
to
be
changed
to
be
able
to
have
the
authority
to
D
in
rural
D,
authorize
them
from
the
city's
acceptance
of
them
or
some
other
solution
for
the
city
to
take
away
and
find
out
the
best
solution.
From
the
bylaw
perspective,
great.
M
M
So
now,
in
terms
of
the
nightclubs
one
of
the
challenges
that
we
have
in
this
council
chambers
in
very
European,
through
noise
emotions,
we
are
asking
the
alcohol
and
Gaming
Commission
to
allow
and
either
Street
conditions
of
restrictions
on
some
of
those
establishments.
It
can
be
illegal
and
clubs
or
bars
which
becoming
a
real
challenge
in
terms
of
of
bringing
stability
to
our
neighborhoods.
What's
your
take
on
that
I,
don't
I,
don't
think
that
I
saw
something
I
wanted
your
reports
on
that.
Thank.
I
You
and
madam
chair,
we
don't
design
the
solution.
You
have
a
staff
who
now
that
we've
just
highlighted
an
area
and
I
know
that
they
are
familiar
with
that
area.
They
need
the
time
to
take
away
and
to
come
up
with
a
solution
that
allows
the
vision
of
council
to
be
implemented
and
enforced
in
a
cost-effective
manner.
M
We
don't
I,
don't
believe
that
we
have
the
Toronto
Police
Service
here
doing
no,
but
you
might
be
able
make
perhaps
in
school
to
can
the
police
charge
building
owners
under
the
civil
remedies
act
is
whenever
they
are
allowing
business
that
are
questionable
within
the
properties.
Is
there
an
option
there.
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
the
civil
remedies
Act
is
really
a
proceeds
of
crime
legislation
and
it
deals
with
a
lengthy
process.
That's
required
with
the
Attorney
General
to
facilitate
seizure
of
property.
That's
been
used
for
illegal
purpose,
so
that
would
be
a
stretch
to
deal
with
some
of
the
nuisance
issues.
In
that
respect,
a
considerable
stretch,
it's
a
very
heavy
piece
of
legislation,
around
proceeds
of
crime.
L
So,
just
for
clarity
through
you,
madam
Speaker
Bill
c36,
were
amendments
to
the
Criminal
Code
dealing
with
prostitution
related
offenses.
Our
municipal
bylaws
do
not
let
do
not
regulate
sexual
services.
They're
two
separate
and
distinct
matters,
so
we
are
informed
by
the
and
enforce
the
bylaws
enacted
by
counsel
pursuant
to
our
authority
in
the
City
of
Toronto
Act
to
regulate
businesses.
N
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
it
was
an
amendment
to
the
bylaw
done
in
2005,
where
the
acceptance
or
the
requirement
to
provide
proof
of
membership
and
a
professional
allistic
Association
was
embedded
in
the
bylaw.
The
effort
there
was
to
ensure
that
only
those
that
were
operating
in
with
legitimate
support
of
legitimate
professional
holistic
associations
would
be
permitted
to
operate.
It
was
actually
done
prior
to
that.
When
we
started
licensing
holistic
SPAC
in
1998,
it
would
require
a
certificate
from
a
college
and
it
was
found
that
colleges
were
creating
really
false
paper.
L
L
Unfortunately,
some
people
have
found
a
way
to
take
advantage
of
that
that
that
loophole,
if
it
were
bearing
in
mind
the
professional
allistic
associations
that
are
allowed
to
be
approved
for
holistic
practitioner
and
center
licensing,
are
those
that
are
approved
by
council.
So
the
bylaw
currently
has
professional
allistic
associations
that
met
the
requirements
of
the
bylaw,
which
were
primarily
paper-based
and
at
the
time
we
did
not
allow
for
a
D
listing
or
a
a
removal
process.
L
L
Yeah,
so
through
you,
madam
Speaker,
from
from
what
I've
determined
that
we
state
we
started
licensing
body
rub
parlors
back
in
the
70s
to
deal
with
some
issues
that
were
occurring,
particularly
on
Yonge,
Street
and
I.
Believe
there
was
an
impetus
around
some
very
significant
criminal
offenses
that
occurred,
so
the
body
rat
parlor
license
regime
was
created
in
order
to
carve
an
appropriate
sari
proper
regulatory
regime.
A
body
rub
parlor
operation.
L
What
we
saw,
unlike
it
or
not
dislike
many
other
things.
Some
people
take
advantage
and
we've
had
a
proliferation
of
illegally
operating
premises,
some
that
are
offering
services
like
a
body
rub
parlor
without
the
body
or
a
parlor
license,
and
the
provisions
and
the
protections
under
that
regulation.
So
the
effort
was
taken
to
to
create
this
holistic
holistic
slice
ins
regime
to
assist
in
combating
that,
while
at
the
same
time
ensuring
that
those
providing
holistic
services
were
properly
regulated.
L
This
could
easily
have
been
a
public
garage
license
that
was
used
to
to
become
something
other
than
what
it
was
licensed
to
be
so.
We've
we've
ended
up
in
this
position
where
an
industry
of
people's
have
exploited
the
use
of
a
proper
license
being
a
holistic
slice
ins
in
this
case
and
our
operating
and
providing
services
that
ought
to
be
regulated
under
a
different
regime
which
would
be
the
body
or
parlor
licensing
regime.
L
N
L
N
Thank
you,
so
just
one
last
question:
in
the
absence
of
bringing
forward
a
review
and
and
working
to
rectify
these
loopholes
from
a
health
and
safety
perspective,
a
human-trafficking
perspective,
do
we
lose
if
things
were
to
stay
the
status
quo?
Do
we
lose
control
of
being
able
to
bring
forward
health
and
safety
aspects
to
the
industry,
so.
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker
I
would
say
yes
with
every
regulation
that
we
craft
the
goal
is
to
implement
the
appropriate
level
of
regulation
to
ensure
the
appropriate
level
of
Public
Safety
consumer
protection
for
the
public
and
for
the
workers,
the
case
we
have
right
now
we
have
people
acting
in
different
types
of
capacities
without
being
afforded
the
protection
that
a
proper
regulatory
regime
would
put
in
place
recognizing
the
nature
of
the
industry.
Thank.
L
So
through
you,
madam
Speaker,
we're
talking
about
holistic
slice,
ins,
practitioners
or
listen,
holistic,
sly
scences
are
not
classified
as
rub
and
tug
just
for
clarity
in
respect
to
the
work
we
did
in
the
illegal
storefronts.
It
was
a
little
bit
more
clear-cut
because
the
sale
of
sale
and
distribution
of
marijuana
in
a
storefront
is
clearly
contrary
to
criminal
law.
L
So
in
those
cases
and
using
the
authorities
we
have
with
zoning,
we
did
address
that
issue
with
the
landlord's
the
property
owners,
because
it
is
a
wholly
illegal
operation
having
a
holistic
practitioner
or
a
holistic
center
is
not
on
its
face
illegal.
Quite
quite
contrary,
it
is
a
licensed
activity.
So
it's
it's.
Where
you
get
into
this
issue
of
being
able
to
prove
the
offenses
being
able
to
prove
illegality
and
then
holding
all
those
appropriately
accountable.
So
it's
a
little
bit
significantly
different
than
the
illegal
cannabis
storefront
issue.
J
If
you
were
to
go
on
some
of
these
rub-and-tug
storefronts
that
exist
and
you
look
at
their
web
sites,
there's
clearly
offering
other
services
and
their
bold
and
advertising
and
they've
got
pictures
in
the
whole
nine
yards.
Wouldn't
they
give
you
enough
cause
to
use
the
same
approach
as
we
did
on
the
cannabis
dispensaries
so.
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
certainly
the
advertising-
that's
done
where
it
may
be.
Advertising
sexual
services
or
what-have-you
would
be
a
matter
under
the
purview
of
the
Criminal
Code
of
Canada,
but
an
advertising
and
act
and
providing
the
Act
are
two
different
things
and
the
second
has
to
be
proven
with
evidence
more
than
just
advertising.
So
you
know
again,
I
go
back
to.
We
need
the
foundational
evidence
to
support
that.
J
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
we
actually
we
don't
need
to
look
at
the
advertising
online,
sir,
because
we're
actually
attending
all
of
these
premises
on
a
regular
basis.
Certainly
any
advertising
or
any
other
evidence
that
supports
the
offenses
that
we're
investigating.
We
would
use
absolutely
in
respect
to
the
legal
cannabis.
Storefronts
I'll.
Just
reiterate
the
fact
that
they
were
they
are
continue
to
be
and
were,
and
will
continue
to
be,
wholly
illegal
in
respect
to
the
Criminal
Code
and
can
the
Controlled
Drugs
and
Substances
Act
in.
J
Particular
section
of
my
ward,
I'm
speaking
to
42
our
favorite
station
I,
was
told,
there's
roughly
a
little
bit
less
than
40
rub
and
tugs.
Can
you
give
me
a
picture
of
what
action
you're
by
law
officers
have
taken
we'll
take
our
planning
to
take
in
order
to
shut
these
things
down
and
if
you
can
and
if
you
cannot,
why
not.
L
L
Thank
you
is
the
unit
commander
at
42
division
and
we've.
Had
this
discussion,
we've
actually
been
talking
to
the
Toronto
Police
Service
since
2012
about
sharing
enforcement
efforts
in
respect
to
illegally
operating
premises,
including
holistic
centers.
Where
body
rub,
parlor
services
may
be
being
provided
contrary
to
their
license.
We
have
initiated
a
number
of
enforcement
efforts.
We
are
discussing
again,
particularly
in
42
Division,
two
to
step
that
up,
so
we
are
partnered
with
the
police
to
the
fullest
extent
as
we
can
be
and
they
can
be
given
resources,
but
it
is
an
area
of
focus.
L
J
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
without
getting
into
all
of
the
various
aspects
of
what
is
available
to
us.
Yes,
sir,
we
have
had
these
discussions
from
a
zoning
context
on
what
we
can
do
in
respect
to
engaging
the
landlord's,
the
property
owners
and
making
them
aware,
but
there
it's
not
just
that
clear-cut,
but
it
absolutely
is
a
piece
of
us
looking
at
all
of
the
enforcement
tools
we
have
available
to
us
and
using
them
appropriately
and
judiciously,
as
is
appropriate.
Last.
J
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
just
for
clarity,
the
premises
you're
discussing
are
those
that
are
currently
holders
of
a
holistic
slice
ins
and
we
have
not.
We
have
not,
as
far
as
I'm
aware
yet
sent
letters
in
respect
to
the
landlord's,
because
we
are
still
working
on
some
of
those
aspects
of
the
enforcement
strategy.
Our
primary
focus
is
has
been
on
the
operation
itself,
but
it
is
a
discussion
we're
having
in
respect
to
zoning.
O
Wong
can
yes
thank
you
very
much.
Madam
Speaker
and
I'd
like
to
focus
my
questions
on
an
item
number
four,
which
is
part
three
of
eating
establishments
and
nightclubs.
I
just
want
to
have
you
stay
for
us.
The
number
of
complaints
that
you
saved
in
2006
against
eating
establishments?
How
many
complaints
were
there
in.
L
L
O
L
The
nightclub
license
was
created
to
respond
to
the
entertainment
district
and
the
issues
on
King
Street
when
they
first
started
a
number
of
years
ago
and
has
not
been
revisited
since
so
we
have
actually
identified
this
on
our
work
plan
and
in
Prior
reports
through
committee
that
this
is
a
body
of
work
that
must
be
done.
So
then,.
O
The
intention
is,
to
sort
of
put
it
all
together
to
create
greater
clarity,
rules
that
are
enforceable,
that
are,
that
are
clear
for
for
everyone's
understanding.
How
do
you
reconcile
the
intention
to
do
just
that
with
the
fact
that
there
is
a
legitimate
night
economy
that
the
city
is
pursuing,
as
well
as
the
fact
that
hospitality
in
the
and
the
diner
user
patron
experience
has
also
changed.
L
Thank
you
through
you,
madam
Speaker
great
question,
counselor
wrong
Tam.
That
is
absolutely
the
challenge
that
we're
facing
and
also
differentiating
eating
establishments
from
a
a
McDonald's
or
a
subway
to
a
Kelsey's
to
one
of
the
higher-end
restaurants.
We
have
that
maybe
then
morphing
as
we've
talked
about
and
started,
calling
them
hybrids
and
morph
into
more
of
an
nightclub
type
of
service
offering
absolutely
as
well.
L
The
complexity
to
this
is
the
zoning
zoning
doesn't
permit
nightclubs
other
than
a
very
select
few
places,
so
people
wanting
that
entertainment,
value
and
Restaurant
tours
wanting
to
provide
it
have
changed
the
way
they're
operating.
So
we
need
to.
We
need
to
talk
to
a
lot
of
people,
not
none,
starting
with
the
communities
where
these
are
occurring
and
take
it
from
there,
including
the
the
business
industry
as
well.
So.
O
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
you
you've
stated
that
you
would
like
to
speak
to
the
communities
that
will
be
directly
affected,
whether
its
residents,
associations
or
bi
A's,
or
perhaps
the
the
food
and
restaurant
Association,
all
everybody
all
the
stakeholders,
I
don't
see
the
the
consultation
component
being
as
broad
as
that.
So
can
you
tell
me
in
your
recommendations:
if
it's
not
there,
we
don't
have
a
specific
recommendation
talking
to
a
broader
public
consultation,
more
public
facing
you
would
welcome
such
an
amendment.
L
Absolutely
through
you,
madam
Speaker,
as
as
I
indicated,
the
recommendations
were
kept
at
a
very
high
level,
as
this
is
the
Auditor
General's
report,
notably
I
could
have
added
in
our
response
to
those
recommendations,
a
more
fulsome
outline
of
how
we
intend
to
do
that.
We
have
spoken
to
it
in
Prior
reports
and
but
absolutely
if
there's
a
specific,
a
specific
direction
around
those
you'd
like
to
see
included
in
those
discussions,
we're
happy
to
happy
to
receive
it.
Thank.
G
She
asked
the
question,
or
at
least
alluded
to
the
fact
that
and
in
your
response
you
due
to
the
fact
that
people
go
in
or
into
a
zoning
area
and
set
up
an
operation
as
a
restaurant
and
then
somehow
they
convert
to
an
entertainment
establishment.
So
what
what
control
mechanism
that
we
have
in
place,
because
somebody
could
very
well
qualify
to
go
in
as
a
restaurant
on
the
design
and
then
they
deviate
from
that
or
expand
their
use.
L
3M
Adam
speakers,
so
therein
lies
the
challenge.
Counselor,
George,
oh
and,
and
part
of
that
is
ensuring
that
both
in
the
zoning,
but
primarily
for
us
in
the
licensing
that
we
have
clear
definitions
and
clearly
delineate
what
the
difference
is
between
an
eating
establishment,
restaurant
and
a
nightclub.
There
is
complexity
to
the
enforcement.
There
are
challenges
when
we
don't
have
things
clearly
articulated.
Okay,.
G
L
G
I
won't
go
deeper
into
the
the
situation
that
you
know
of
okay.
So
my
question
is,
and
perhaps
I'll
speak
to
the
auditor-general
about
it.
How
do
conditional
permits
work
into
a
situation
where
someone
gets
a
license
based
on
conditions
that
they
will
fulfill
ie
fulfill
the
zoning
requirements
going
forward
in
the
future?
So.
L
I'll
start
through
you,
madam
Speaker,
you
do
require
the
appropriate
zoning
to
operate
the
type
of
business
and
to
receive
the
business
license
which
you
are
seeking
the
business
you're
seeking
to
operate.
So
it
is
both
of
those
pieces
together
the
zoning
permits
and
we
license
the
activity
and
we
license
the
activity
based
on
the
application
and
the
information
we're
provided.
People
choose
to
operate
beyond
that.
That's
where
enforcement
comes
into
play
and
the
need
to
gather
evidence
and
prosecute
as
appropriate.
G
G
Somehow,
notwithstanding
that
the
Kassie
of
aid
to
say
anyway,
I'll
skip
that
one
go
back
to
and
go
to
the
next
one
review
of
holistic
centers,
how
do
we
try
and
control
the
fact
that
if
somebody
sets
up
a
holistic
center,
they
hire
a
bunch
of
people
and
it
could
be
very,
it
could
be
administrative
staff
for
all.
We
know
they
need,
let's
say
ten
people
and
then
how
do
we
control
whether
the
majority
of
the
ten
people
are
not
licensed
to
do
whatever
the
heck
holistic
centers
do
but
end
up
doing
those
things.
F
K
K
You
so
I'll
start
off
with
with
restaurants
that
turn
into
nightclubs
and
knowing
that
they're
going
to
turn
into
nightclubs
when
they
apply
most
recently
I
had
a
restaurant
that
wanted
to
set
up
with
a
liquor
license.
There
was
no
more
than
400
square
feet,
but
the
speakers
that
they
had
in
the
establishment
were
probably
3
feet
by
6
feet
tall
two
of
them
does
that
having
speakers
for
music
that
loud
in
a
restaurant,
that's
400
square
feet?
K
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
we
certainly
do
review
the
applications.
We
don't
ask
people
this
speaker
sizes,
but
we
do
ask
to
understand
what
the
seating
looks
like
and
we
have
to
cook.
We
have
to
tie
that
to
the
manner
in
which
the
eating
establishment
definition
resides
in
the
licensing
bylaw,
as
well
as
a
nightclub
licensed
nightclub
category
is
defined
in
the
bylaws
so,
depending
on
the
information
that
we
were
provided
and
we
do
challenge
my
staff
at
the
front
desk
do
challenge.
L
K
Things
are
changing
out
their
aunt
äj--
of
the
set
up
in
our
bylaws
right.
That's
what's
happening,
so
it
just
doesn't
seem
like
we're
changing
the
language
and
the
bylaws
in
order
to
catch
up
with.
What's
going
on
so
could
we
not
be
looking
at
size
of
speakers,
for
instance
a
per
square
foot
of
an
establishment
as
a
part
of
all
of
this,
to
recognize
that
maybe
a
restaurant
doesn't
need
a
speaker.
That's
three
feet
by
by
six
feet
tall
in
in
running
a
restaurant
400
square
feet
inside
so.
L
3
madam
Speaker
I
think
you
well
articulated
the
need
for
us
to
look
at
how
businesses
are
operating
and
what
are
the
the
appropriate
measures
or
the
appropriate
regulation
that
need
to
be
in
place
to
govern
them
depending
on
how
they
operate.
We
are
not
in
the
regulating
of
speaker
sized
business.
We
are,
however,
in
the
regulating
of
noise
business,
but
certainly
your
comments
around.
What
are
those
characteristics
that
we
need
to
be
considering
when
we
are
crafting
a
definition
for
what
a
nightclub
is
versus
what
an
eating
establishment
is
you're,
absolutely
right
on
forward.
K
L
You,
madam
Speaker
I,
wholeheartedly
agree
with
you
councilor
ma'am
aleady
that
the
bylaws
need
to
be
updated.
We
have
identified
this
specific
issue
in
a
report.
We
brought
to
LNS
about
a
review
of
chapter
5
for
five
licensing
and
starting
with
or
partly
starting
with,
the
eating
establishment,
nightclub
issue,
so
you're
bang
on
let's.
K
Move
to
two
holistic
centers
because,
as
you
know,
I
have
quite
a
few
brothels
that
are
licensed
by
the
city
Toronto.
In
my
own
war,
Ward
and
I've
tried
to
fight
these
things
for
forever
and
they're.
Still,
there
they're
still
there
with
the
prostitution
that
goes
on,
and
we
know
full
well
that
it's
doing
that
is
going
on
there
in
communities
where
children
are
going
to
libraries
and
into
schools
and
they're
having
to
walk
by
these
windows
regularly.
K
L
So
through
you,
madam
Speaker,
just
for
clarity,
sir,
we
license
body
rub
parlors,
we
don't
licensed
brothels.
We
do
not
license
prostitution,
we
are
in
the
licensing
of
adult
entertainment
establishments.
Certainly
your
point
in
respect
to
what
the
criminal
law
does
or
does
not
do
in
this
particular
regime
does
affect
what's
going
on
in
our
city.
It's.
K
L
H
You
thank
you,
madam
Speaker
I'd
like
to
focus
on
the
holistic,
professional
holistic,
Association
and
the
holistic
licenses
that
are
distributed
around
the
city
now
in
the
report.
There's
a
reference
here
that
holistic
centers
offering
unauthorized
services
could
potentially
pose
an
array
of
health
safety
and
community
issues,
including
the
risk
of
human
trafficking.
Now,
under
the
health
protection
and
promotion
Act,
our
Board
of
Health
has
almost
those
identical
wordings
as
as
powers
to
enforce.
Is
there
any
reason
why
our
Board
of
Health
is
not
more
proactive
in
enforcing
the
provisions
of
that
legislation?.
H
L
L
I
will
say,
however,
that
when
we
are
undertaking
the
reviews
of
these
bylaws
recognizing
that
there
are
certain
vulnerable
populations,
that
we
are
having
conversations
with
people
who
are
advocates
fighting
against
human
trafficking
and
as
we
move
forward
with
revisiting
these
bylaws,
that
they
will
be
at
the
table,
but
as
far
as
what
public
health
may
or
may
not
be
enforcing.
In
this
regard,
I'm
afraid
I
can't
comment
all.
H
Right
well,
then,
I'll
redirect
the
question
to
the
Auditor
General
in
your
report.
Here
it
made
mention
that
under
honoureth
right
services
could
potentially
pose
an
array
of
health
safety
and
community
issues,
including
the
risk
of
human
trafficking
under
the
health
protection
protection
and
promotion.
Act,
our
Board
of
Health
has
the
power
to
from
what
I
can
read
I'm,
not
a
lawyer
from
what
I
can
read.
They
have
the
power
to
and
or
the
health
safety
and
community
issues
reference
in
your
report.
Thank.
I
You
and
through
you,
madam
chair,
our
reference
in
relation
to
the
nexus
between
human
trafficking
and
the
potential
risk
really
does
come
from
a
staff
report
back
in
2014,
where
staff
were
going
to
report
back
to
council
were
in
relation
to
whether
there
could
be
any
changes
to
the
bylaw
around
holistic
Stu
helped
to
reduce
any
risks
that
are
there
in
to
your
point.
That
might
be
another
Avenue
that
might
be
explored
by
staff
in
collaboration
to
make
sure
that
there's
a
holistic
framework
across
the
city
and
really
in
this
regard,
okay,.
H
Back
to
the
manager
of
municipal
licensing,
so
from
what
I
can
read
our
Board
of
Health
has
the
powers
to
enforce
and
also
I
have
had
police
services
out
to
community
consultation,
about
the
growing
holistic
locations
yeah
in
Ward,
10
and
beyond.
They
also
have
an
undercover
operation
where
they
raid
these
premises.
H
L
So
through
you,
madam
Speaker
I,
don't
think
it's
appropriate
to
speak
to
any
specific
operations
that
may
or
may
not
be
ongoing
at
this
time,
not
so
as
to
not
jeopardize
those.
What
I
will
say
is
it's
a
complex
area
and
law
enforcement
can
be
difficult.
We
we
absolutely
need
to
take
the
time
to
do
the
best
that
we
can
to
ensure
that
we
have
legislation
that
is
clear
and
enforceable.
I
believe
we,
we
have
some
opportunity
for
improvement
in
what
we
have.
We
are
partnering
with
the
Toronto
Police
Service.
L
We
all
have
have
various
mandates
that
we
follow
through
with
we're
responsible
for
issuing
business
licenses
and
as
I
was
commenting
previously
when
someone
comes
in
and
applies
for
a
license
and
they
meet
the
requirements
of
the
bylaw
they
obtain
that
license
if
they
later
start
performance
art
in
a
manner
that
is
non-compliant,
then
that's
where
the
enforcement
comes
in
and
we
need
to.
We
need
to
be
able
to
procure
sufficient
evidence
to
prove
offenses
so
that
my
good
colleagues
and
in
the
courts
can
prosecute.
So,
unfortunately,
it's
not
a
simple
process.
L
There's
a
balance
of
someone's
right
to
earn
a
living
and
their
right
to
a
business
license
with
meeting
the
requirements
we
prescribed,
but
I
know
everyone's
best.
Efforts
are
on
this
and
then
respect
your
your
reference
to
human
trafficking.
We
recognize
that
exploitation
can
occur
in
any
of
our
businesses
either
how
it's
happening
in
our
hotels
and
motels,
and
that
partnership
that
the
city
has
with
the
Police
Service
on
that
front
is
is
critical.
All.
H
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
the
challenge
we
have
is
the
list
of
professional
istic
associations
that
were
adopted
by
council
through,
but
as
per
the
bylaw,
there
are
a
few
of
them
that
we
significantly
challenged
the
legitimacy
thereof
and
bearing
in
mind
that
that
was
put
in
place
to
attempt
to
deal
with
the
proliferation
of
illegal
operators,
it
has
not
been
successful.
It
has
enabled,
to
a
certain
extent
those
that
are
off
rate
are
operating
unlawfully.
L
P
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
Through
you
to
the
corporate
staff
in
many
instances
our
live
music
venues
in
the
city.
Are
they
don't
have
their
own
class
of
license
so
they're
operating,
probably
under
a
union
establishment
license
or
even
a
an
entertainment
or
nightclub
license?
How
do
you
envision
that
issue
will
be
addressed
and
and
will
that
distinction
be
made
for
those
types
of
facilities
or
uses.
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
that
certainly
articulates
the
challenge
we
have
in
trying
to
balance
the
city's
interest
in
advancing
the
live
music
industry,
the
music
industry
large
with
restaurant
tours
with
nightclubs.
So
absolutely
our
colleagues
at
economic
development,
particularly
through
the
music
department,
will
be
engaged
in.
How
do
we
strike
a
balance
to
not
quell
those
that
that
we
need
to
operate
depending
on,
depending
on
what
the
the
foundational
nature
of
the
business
is
on
we're
live
music
is
presented,
they
may
require
an
entertainment
establishment
license
or
an
eating
establishment
license.
P
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
and
just
for
clarity,
there's
nothing
to
say
that
a
restaurant
cannot
have
music
or
live
music.
So
we
will
we'll
have
to
engage
everyone
to
understand
the
various
types
of
operations
that
are
happening
across
the
city.
We're
live
music
may
be
offered
where
may
be
in
conjunction
with
another
activity
that
may
require
licensing
and
absolutely
look
at
the
full
spectrum
and
try
to
balance
so
that
we
can
make
way
for
business
regulate
appropriately,
but
also
ensure
that
any
community
nuisance
issues
are
addressed.
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
you've
well
articulated
councillor
Cole
the
the
need
to
balance
regulation
appropriately.
You
know
95
or
more
percent
of
operators
operate
lawfully.
They
operate
in
compliance,
so
we
want
to
ensure
that
we've
got
a
regulatory
regime.
That
recognize
is
that,
but
then
we
also
have
the
tools
that
may
be
necessary
for
that
few
percent
that
choose
to
operate
unlawfully.
I
would
say
for
my
anecdotally
for
my
knowledge
of
what
we
get
as
far
as
calls
are
relating
to
noise.
P
L
Madam
Speaker,
absolutely
t-mac
is
also
a
member
and
a
stakeholder
in
our
noise
consultation
work
that
we're
doing
so.
You
know
in
everything
we
do.
We
attempt
to
gather
input
from
everybody.
Who's
got
an
interest
in
it
from
all
all
across
the
neighbors
to
the
property,
the
operator,
the
property
and
those
who
may
be
participating
in
its
activity.
So
absolutely
they
will
be
part
of
the
discussion
and
have
been
so
far
great.
P
A
D
D
L
D
L
D
D
I
I,
what's
needed
here
is
clarity
so
that
when
somebody
brings
on
application
it
can
be
enforced
once
once.
First
of
all,
on
the
application
is
clear:
what
type
of
establishment
it
is
and
it's
clear
for
not
only
the
establishment
itself,
but
it's
clear
for
the
enforcement
team,
and
it
makes
it
easy
to
enforce
and.
D
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
we
do
gather
seeding
information.
I
just
will
comment
that
the
act
of
the
eating
establishment
definition
does
not
require
seating,
so
this
is
where
the
definitions
can
be
clarified,
but
absolutely
we've
already
talked
about
implementing
an
opportunity
to
get
more
information
to
help
inform
the
dialogue
at
our
counters
I'm.
D
Four
or
five
years
ago,
speaker,
Nunziata
councillor
Palacio,
councillor,
Layton
and
I
were
sent
down
to
Queen's
Park,
and
we
were
given
promises
that
the
alcohol
and
Gaming
Commission
in
Queen's
Park
would
help
us
solve
this
problem
by
giving
us
some
support
through
the
liquor
licensing
process.
My
memory
is
that
that
just
sort
of
evaporated
is
a
fair
assessment,
so.
L
D
Any
okay,
and
so
it's
been
five
years
of
regular
meetings
off
and
on
off
and
on
not
regular,
then
and
the
province
of
Ontario.
It's
still
their
position
that
we
can't
make
conditions
on
the
liquor
license
that
they
have
to
be
in
compliance
with
our
business
license
or
our
zoning
or
any
of
those
other
things
that
would
put
their
liquor
license
at
risk.
So.
L
This
is
the
discussion,
yes,
that
we've
had
a
couple
of
years
ago,
and
what
the
mandate
and
the
authority
and
the
approach
of
the
alcohol
Gaming
Commission
and
of
Ontario
and
the
licensing
appeal
tribunal,
where
it
resides
as
far
as
conditions
on
liquor
licenses
and
has
informed
and
spoken
to
why
we
need
to
do
a
review
of
the
manner
in
which
we
license
our
businesses
and
our
opportunities
to
make
sure
we
have
appropriate
protections.
So.
D
L
Through
you,
madam
Speaker,
and
as
I
recall
when
we
ended
our
liquor
license
task
force,
we
are
going
to
continue
to
do
our
work
on
the
enforcement
side,
where
we
have
identified
challenges
in
that
respect,
we
will
absolutely
be
advancing
that
to
Council
for
council
to
determine
how
best
to
approach
any
gaps
that
may
exist
that
we
mean
it.
We
may
need
assistance
on.
Thank.
L
M
M
Enlightening
reports
imbue
the
nature
of
the
promise
that
we've
been
having
now,
as
chaired
a
serial
Toronto
licensing
standards.
Committee
I
know
firsthand
that
our
city
staff
from
the
municipal
licensing
standards
they
are
committed
to
ensure
that
public
health
and
safety
in
consumer
protection
is
their
top
priority.
M
That's
now
it's
coming
back
once
again
and
more
than
anything
else,
we
have
members
of
council
more
than
235
directives
that
either
emanated
from
those
reviews
or
from
Norris
emotions
that
came
forward
from
Emerson.
So
we
have
to
be
mindful
that,
in
terms
of
the
world
plan
that
was,
that
has
been
realized
by
series
tab
how
we
are
going
to
do
it.
M
They
have
clearly
indicated
that
all
those
235
review
in
the
directives
having
group
into
21
projects
that
will
come
forward
and
so
the
more
appetite
that
we
have
in
terms
of
asking
for
more
reports
from
MLS.
We
are
putting
more
additional
pressure
on
city
staff
in
terms
of
dealing
with
the
real
issues
and
all
these
reports
from
pilots
either
on
dogs
and
cats
and
backyard
chickens
and
whatever
else
that's
not
helping
either
so,
and
we
know
that
the
amount
of
work
through
the
3-1-1
that
city
staff
have
to
deal
with.
M
We
are
talking
about
tens
of
thousands
of
cones
and
issues
that
deal
with
appropriate
standards,
overgrown
grass,
weeds
garbage
and
so
on.
So
the
the
point
is
that
that
we
have
to
be
mindful
about
that.
The
second
point
that
I
wanted
to
speak
about.
It
is
in
terms
of
them
or
the
reports,
knowledge
by
the
Auditor
General
in
terms
of
violations
in
public
nuisances,
mainly
with
nightclubs,
illegal
nightclubs,
bars
and
and,
of
course,
with
them,
with
their
body
repairs
the
illegal
ones.
Now
how
to
do
that?
M
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
that's
in
the
works
and
that's
going
to
be.
One
of
the
challenge
is
that
through
innovation
and
technology
that
will
modernize
the
municipal
called
chapter
545
and
that's
going
to
be
one
of
the
well
the
tools
that
probably
city
staff
need
and
in
terms
of
enforcement
and
moving
forward,
I'm
sure
that
all
the
unscrupulous
operators
that
we
have
all
over
as
they
will
continue
doing
what
they
are
doing,
it's
very
easy
to
see
through
the
websites
what
they
are
offering,
not
only
especially,
is
more
placer
so
commercial
strips.
M
A
F
N
You,
madam
Speaker
I,
have
a
motion
if
we
can
put
that
up
on
the
screen
and
I'll
read
it
out
now
with
respect
to
item
au
10.3,
that
City
Council
direct,
the
executive
director
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards
to
report
back
to
the
February
26
2018
licensing
and
standards
committee
with
recommendations
and
the
feasibility
of
the
following.
A
D
listing
the
ten
professional
holistic
associations
from
the
Auditor
General's
report
dated
October
24th
2017
headed
a
review
of
the
municipal
licensing.
N
N
Three
City
Council
direct,
the
executive
director
of
mutual
licensing
standards
to
report
to
the
budget
committee
through
the
2018
budget
process
and
the
projected
costs
and
potential
revenue
sources
necessary
to
increase
the
enforcement
complement
of
the
vision
by
one
supervisor
and
for
municipal
standard
officers,
including
appropriately
marked
and
equipped
vehicles
and
equipment
to
enhance
dedicated
enforcement
officers
related
to
non-compliant
businesses
currently
operating
with
holistic
licences.
Madam
Speaker
I
want
to
begin
by
thanking
the
Auditor
General
and
our
director
of
MLS
for
working
together
to
help
us
really
understand.
N
What's
going
on
here
and
and
and
the
results
are,
the
facts
are
that
the
current
regime
or
the
current
rules
that
we
as
a
city
have
in
place,
have
led
directly
to
the
proliferation
of
unlawful
holistic
operations
in
our
city
and
that's
a
problem.
This
motion
here
today
is
one
of
the
single
most
important
reviews,
we've
probably
undertaken
in
40
years,
to
make
sure
that
we
begin
to
fix
this
problem.
N
N
And,
of
course,
this
motion
is
finally
going
to
allow
operators
who
are
operating
illegally
the
ability
to
operate
within
the
rules,
and
that
is
great
news
for
those
in
communities
that
have
to
deal
with
the
proliferation
of
these
businesses.
Our
neighborhoods
don't
deserve
it.
Our
families
don't
deserve
it.
N
A
M
You,
madam
Speaker,
that's
what
the
channel
it's.
Your
intention
with
regards
to
recognition
of
a
tree
is
to
have
an
enforcement
enforcement
body
that
is
with
the
illegal
businesses
and
overall,
is
that
your
intention,
for
example,
to
have
not
only
the
MLS
staff
at
the
Toronto
Police
Service
they're,
calling
gaming
to
have
the
ability
just
to
charge
those
who
are
involved
in
illegal
activities
and
to
create
some
evidence
eventually
to
revoke
the
license.
Is
that
intentional?
Overall,
within
that
recommendation,
yeah.
N
M
If
that's
the
intention,
which
would
be
willing
to
make
a
friendly
amendment,
unfortunately
already
spoke,
is
maybe
to
to
create
that
kind
of
enforcement
body
that
brings
people
together
in
the
enforcement
agencies
together
for
that
purpose,
I
have
no
problems
with
that.
Counterplot
yeah,
that's
great!
The
next
question
that
they
have
is
an
one
a
in
terms
of
the
list
in
the
professional
Calista,
CAHSEE
ations
and
those
are
the
ones
that
are
not
in
compliance,
so
cities
that
will
have
that
power
just
to
go
and
just
get
rid
of
them.
Is
that
intentional?
N
That
is
one
of
the
most
important
elements
in
this
whole
kind
of
redesign
of
how
the
system
works.
We
know
that,
in
order
to
get
your
license
for
a
Holistic
Center,
you
need
to
be
a
member
of
one
of
these
associations.
Well,
we
also
know
that
there's
a
lot
of
these
associations
that
aren't
operating
in
the
laws
and
and
and
and
really
adhering
to
the
standards
that
were
originally
put
forward
for
holistic
centers
to
operate
under
so
allowing
us
to
delist.
N
Those
associations
immediately
puts
the
people
who
are
not
operating
there,
allistic
centers
in
conforming
with
the
law,
basically
in
contravention
of
their
business
license,
so
that
allows
our
our
staff
to
go
out
there
and
say
unless
you're
part
of
an
association.
That's
following
the
rules,
you
can't
be
in
business
great.
M
My
last
question
is
in
terms
of
removing
the
restriction
on
the
number
of
body.
Rock
parlors
licenses
is
that
your
intention
overall
is
either
to
have
the
equalizer
in
terms
of
increasing
the
fees
to
everyone,
the
value
of
their
body
repairs
overall,
all
throughout
to
whatever
the
fee.
It
can
be
fifty
thousand
dollars,
twenty
five,
whatever
that's
occurring,
one
or
simply
flattening
or
lowering
two
to
nothing
just
to.
Is
that
your
intention
or
wrong
yeah.
N
Thanks
for
the
question,
and
thank
you
for
that
question,
you
know:
we've
I've
had
discussions
with
with
our
director
on
where
the
fees
need
to
go
and
and
this
report
we
will.
We
will
undertake
a
review
of
where
those
fees
have
to
go.
I
can
pretty
much
guarantee
that
that
the
current
regimen
is
not
going
to
stay
in
place,
but
you
know
removing
the
number
of
body
rub.
Parlors
is
going
to
allow
you
know
to
have
the
adult
conversation.
We
need
to
allow
those
that
are
operating
illegally
to
get
into
conformity
with
the
rules.
Okay,.
A
N
It
just
means
so
the
city
has
a
list
of
holistic
associations
that
we
recognize,
and
we
see
through
the
author
general's
report
and
through
the
work
of
MLS,
that
a
lot
of
these
associations
are
not
following
the
the
spirit
of
the
intent
of
why
they
should
have
been
existing
in
the
first
place.
So
as
per
the
Auditor
General's
recommendations,
they
need
to
go.
So
that's
what
that
states?
Okay,.
N
Yeah,
so
that
is
there's
some
language
in
there.
That's
going
to
help
us
deal
with
those
that
are
operating
illegally
right
now
that
are
operating
as
holistic
centers
to
get
them
to
go
towards
a
more
legal
way
of
operating,
which
would
allow
them
to
go
into
areas
of
the
city
that
we
already
allow
for
this.
So
that's
what
that
that
part,
those.
J
N
No,
my
intention
is
to
bring
these
operators
into
conformity
with
our
laws.
It's
open
season
right
now,
counselor,
because
we
have
an
artificial
cap
that
was
brought
forward
in
the
1970s
there's
25
of
these
licenses
that
are
available
to
those
the
one
operate
in
the
industry
and,
of
course,
the
you
know,
market
demands
and
in
a
city
like
this
mean
that
it's
not
meeting
the
demand.
So
what
happens?
J
What
you're
saying
but
I
mean
this
this
thing
remove
the
restrictions
on
the
number
you
can
have
you're
gonna
end
up
having
two
hundred
three
hundred
five
hundred
a
thousand
two
thousand.
Aren't
you
afraid
that
something
like
this
will
certainly
invite
into
areas
I
know
in
my
area
will
certainly
invite
a
lot
of
these
body
rock
partners
to
operate.
N
Sir
Kerr
Janice
AI,
thank
you
for
the
question,
because
that's
exactly
what
we're
trying
to
handle,
we
already
have
the
proliferation
of
200-300.
A
thousand
of
these
places
operating
places
that
you
don't
want
them
to.
We
already
have
the
situation,
the
problem
where
your
residents
are
dealing
with
these
places
in
areas
of
the
city
that
they're
not
zoned
for
by
lifting
the
cap.
We
already
have
a
regulatory
system
in
place
here
at
the
city
that
says
you
have
to
in
order
to
to
operate
legally.
N
You
cannot
go
into
areas
of
the
city
where,
where
families
are
having
dinner,
you
have
to
go
into
industrial
areas,
so
the
rules
are
already
there
they're
working
very,
very
well
for
the
25
operators.
They're
already
use
it
we're
trying
to
we're
trying
to
fix
the
problem.
We're,
like
you
just
said:
a
thousand
operators
are
operating
illegally
over
the
city
they're
doing
it.
J
Creating
legibility
criteria
for
the
issuance
of
body
bar-parlour
licenses:
are
you
also
envisioning
something
there
that
will
give
instructions
to
the
executive
director
to
be
able
to
lyse
I
mean
to
be
able
to
deal
with
the
quote/unquote,
rub:
tugs
and
sexual
services
that
some
of
these
some
of
these
establishments
are
actually
providing?
Yes,.
N
N
O
Thank
you
very
much
and
I
have
been
very
I've,
been
listening
very
carefully
as
a
as
the
councillor
answers
a
number
of
questions
regarding
them.
The
motive
in
his
they,
the
intention
of
the
of
the
motion,
but
what
I
didn't
hear
is,
is
the
Community
Impact
and
who
are
we
trying
to
protect?
If
you
can
just
give
us
some
clarification
to
that
yeah.
N
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
question.
It's
very,
very
important!
So
currently,
right
now,
if
you're
operating
under
a
holistic
center,
there
is
no
protection
for
the
for
the
people
working
inside
these
centers.
If
those
that
operate
legal
body
rub
parlors,
we
actually
as
a
city
right
now
have
a
regime
in
place
where
we
go
and
we
test
for
STDs
public
health
is
involved,
there's
licenses
required
by
those
that
are
working
in
the
industry.
N
So
you
know
we
want
to
take
this
from
the
underground
and
bring
it
to
the
forefront
and
and
really
councilor
the
to
have
that
adil
conversation
requires
us.
You
know
to
acknowledge
that
there
is
an
entire
industry
right
now,
that's
being
unregulated,
it's
unsafe
for
those
that
are
operating
within
it,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that,
as
this
is
an
industry,
that's
never
going
to
go
away
that
those
who
are
operating
in
and
are
doing
it
legally
and
safely
from
a
public
health
standpoint.
How.
N
So
you
know
there
has
been
decisions
by
the
Supreme
Court.
Obviously,
within
a
body
rub
parlor
license.
We
know
that
sexual
intercourse
is
not
a
legal
part
of
the
business,
but
there
are
feeling
a
little
uncomfortable
talking
with
those
behind
us,
but
they're
gone
now,
but
there
are
there
there
there
are.
It
would
still
remain
illegal
for
a
customer
to
walk
into
a
body
rub
parlor
today
and
ask
solicit
sex
for
a
given
fee.
It
would
not
be
illegal
if
the
the
worker
within
the
facility
were
to
solicit
for
a
fee.
N
O
So
is
the
intention
and
I
think
I'm
starting
to
understand.
So
is
the
intention
to
also
protect
the
exploited
worker,
the
the
individuals,
the
survivors
and
victims
of
human
trafficking?
Perhaps
those
who
are
forced
into
sex
work?
Not
those
who
are
choosing
starts
work
on
their
own
is
that
part
of
the
intention
of
your
motion
is
to
sort
of
dig
deeper
to
ensure
that
those
holistic
centers
are
going
to
fall
under
the
category
of
body,
rub
parlor
but
at
the
same
time
put
tighter
regulations
around
body
rub
parlors,
okay,
that.
N
F
A
N
E
N
An
area
that
zoned
body
R
of
the
restrictions
and
what
that
you
know
what
that
possibility
entails
I'm,
not
sure
I'll,
wait
with
the
rest
of
us
to
see
what
the
report
says
but
yeah.
The
intention
is
that
the
understanding
right
now
is,
you
know,
we're
the
demands
not
being
met
with
the
current
25
life
licenses.
We've
already
provided
so
it's
led
to
this
proliferation
of
people
operating
illegally,
give
them
the
option
to
operate
legally
and
guess
what
maybe
they
will
Thank.
A
C
N
Councillor,
it
is
asking
the
the
executive
director
of
municipal
licensing
and
standards
to
undertake
a
review
of
removing
the
restrictions,
and
we
had
extensive
conversations.
Just
to
your
point,
do
we
do
we
just
bring
25
more?
Do
we
bring
50
more
and
it
was
determined
that
really
that's
going
to
be
an
arbitrary
number
and
if
we
want
to
deal
with
the
problem,
allow
people
to
to
operate
legally.
We
have
the
framework
to
allow
them
to
operate
legally.
We
know
that
those
that
are
operating
legally
are
providing
or
not
bringing
any
problems
to
communities.
N
F
F
K
A
number
of
years
ago,
with
the
adult
entertainment
industry,
council
chose
to
put
a
moratorium
on
handing
out
licenses
to
the
adult
entertainment
industry,
because
council
felt
that
we
wanted
to
actually
do
do
away
with
that
kind
of
business
in
the
City
of
Toronto.
We
didn't
want
it.
We
were
able
to
do
it
because
the
province
allowed
us
under
legislation
to
do
it
under
that
category
we
can
actually
say
yes
or
no
to
certain
licenses.
Adult
entertainment
industry
is
one
of
them
strip.
K
Clubs
and
our
taxi
industry
is
another,
but
the
province
doesn't
give
us
the
ability
to
deal
with
any
of
the
other
licenses
that
we
hand
out.
In
fact,
we
have
to
give
out
the
licenses
according
to
provincial
legislation
by
law,
so
we
can't
restrict
if
we
have
them
change
this,
this
law,
this
this
restriction
on
municipalities,
at
least
for
the
City
of
Toronto.
K
We
can
then
venture
into
saying
to
ourselves
when
it
comes
to
holistic
s--,
we
are
going
to
put
a
moratorium
on
the
licenses
and
we're
not
going
to
hand
them
out
anymore
until
we
deal
with
whatever
we
need
to
deal
with.
This
is
the
safest
and
the
fastest
way
to
deal
with
this
issue,
as
as
as
it
relates
to
holistic,
in
that
whole
equation,
I
hope
you
can
support
the
motion.
It
really
is
needed
at
this
particular
time
if
we
want
to
get
rid
of
this
problem.
K
Any
other
motions
in
my
opinion
are
only
gonna
drag
the
matter
out
and
the
industry
are
quite
its
organized
crime.
Folks,
it
is
going
to
find
a
way
around
any
other
language
that
you
want
to
place
on
those
motions.
They
will
find
a
way
to
scoot
around
it
so
that
it's
legal
for
them
to
be
set
up.
The
only
way
to
stop
this
is
to
stop
the
licensing
and
to
deal
with
this
accordingly.
Now
I
got
myself
into
a
little
trouble
a
number
of
years
ago,
with
with
the
media.
K
People
still
see
me
as
the
guy
who
wants
the
Red
Lake
District.
At
the
end
of
the
day,
all
I
was
saying
is
we
need
to
change
the
rezoning,
the
the
zoning
in
in
areas
where
holistic
swerve
in
order
to
deal
with
the
issue?
So
what
came
out
of
that?
The
assumption
that
red-light
district
needs
to
be
needs
to
be
taken
on,
and,
furthermore,
the
media
asked?
Where
should
we
do?
This
is?
K
Is
the
island
a
part
of
the
the
whole
equation
that
said
yeah
the
whole
city
should
be
looking
at
rezoning,
the
whole
city
around
this
around
this
equation,
and
lo
and
behold,
family
tea
becomes
the
guy
who
wants
the
red-light
district
on
the
island?
That's
not
what
I
said
not
what
I
wanted
and
it's
still
not
what
I
said
and
what
I
want
today.
What
I
want
is
this
the
ability
to
stop
the
licensing
in
these
in
these
places?
K
These
are
the
worst
things
that
possibly
can
crop
up
in
communities
like
they
are
in
front
of
our
schools
in
front
of
our
libraries
and
that's
exactly
what's
going
on
in
our
communities
and
there's
nothing
that
we
can
do
about
it
unless
we
ask
the
province
to
help.
My
motion
does
that.
Secondly,
on
restaurants,
I'm
so
glad
we're
dealing
with
this
biggest
scam
around
right
now,
our
restaurants,
posing
as
restaurants
from
the
really
nightclubs
right
I'll,
give
you
a
little
story.
A
little
quick
one.
K
So
can
we
question
religion
at
this
point?
Can
we
question
who's
who's
who's
having
baptisms
at
2
o'clock
in
the
morning?
No,
we
can't,
but
can
we
change
the
bylaw
so
that
we
can
restrict
the
type
of
speakers
perhaps
that
are
in
these
establishments,
so
they're,
not
that
big.
If
we
did
that,
we
would
stop
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
what's
happened
and,
lastly,
around
licensing
liquor
licensing,
it
was
the
best
tool
the
city
had
to
restrict
illegal
activity
and
nightclubs
and
everywhere
else-
and
you
know
what
happened
with
that.
J
A
J
K
Now
the
Toronto
Act
allows
us
only
to
restrict
in
two
or
three
categories:
licensing,
taxis,
licensing,
adult
entertainment,
the
strip,
clubs
and
I.
Think
there's
one
more
it
doesn't
include.
Holistic
centers
doesn't
include
any
of
that
that
gamut,
what
I'm
suggesting
is
that
they
give
us
the
ability
in
the
act
to
be
able
to
put
moratoriums
on
certain
businesses.
If
that's
what
we
choose
to
do
right
now,
we're
not
allowed
to
do
that
by
law,
because
it's
not
a
part
of
that
list.
That's
on
that's
on
it's
in
the
act
through.
J
The
speaker
to
the
councillor
you
realize
that
this
is
probably
going
to
take
a
year
or
a
year
and
a
half
two
years,
there's
an
election
around
the
corner.
If
for
us
to
go
back
up
to
the
province
and
say
we're
looking
to
do
this,
I
suppose
for
hearings
and
and
everything
else,
I
mean
this
is
something
like
it
could
be
two
years
down
the
line
this.
K
Could
be
done
overnight
with
with
with
the
premier
in
her
office,
this
could
be
done
overnight.
She's
got
the
ability
to
bring
her
executive
together
and
make
this
kind
of
decision
and
I
and
I
think
it's
a
very
simple
one,
and
if
I
were
the
premier
of
this
province,
this
is
certainly
something
I
would
do
for
the
City
of
Toronto
right
away.
Thank.
A
J
A
follow
country
you
realize
you
were
in
provincial
politics,
realise
that
the
premier
and
the
preview
council,
or
the
view
the
cabinet
does
not
have
authority
to
do
this.
This
will
have
to
be
something
that
the
legislature
does.
This
will
have
to
be
at
hearings
and
it
will
have
to
go
across
if,
if
you're,
if
you're
saying
that
this
is
gonna
be
done
overnight,
I
beg
to
differ
no.
K
The
premier
can
actually
make
certain
decisions
on
legislation
as
long
as
her
executive
or
in
the
and
make
that
decision
without
going
forward.
These
amendments
are
within
the
Premier's
ability,
as
the
premier
to
make
some
of
these
decisions
on
her
own.
If
so,
III
don't
want
to
squabble
whether
or
not
she
does
it
doesn't.
Yeah
I
think
it's
needed.
Yes,
clarification
of.
A
J
A
A
If
we
can't
enforce
it,
because
we
don't
have
the
tools
to
enforce
it,
we're
wasting
our
time
because
that's
the
whole
issue,
like
councillor
perks,
was
talking
about
the
liquor
line
we
met
four
years
ago.
Five
years
ago
we
met
with
AGCO
what
happened?
Nothing,
no
conditions
on
liquor
licences,
we're
waiting.
The
province
didn't
act
on
it.
A
What
we
need
is
the
province
to
give
us
the
tools
and
support
of
the
city
on
allowing
us
to
lay
charges
and
that
we
can
enforce
our
bylaws
and
a
it
is
provincial
legislated
and
we
don't
have
that
authority.
We
can't
go
into
an
establishment
and
just
walk
in
to
it
or
late
charges
not
like.
Unlike
the
police,
we
can't
get
wards.
A
We
have
rooming
houses
where
we
can't
lay
charges
because
we
can
access
the
the
the
rooming
house,
because
you
have
to
ask
permission
when
you
go
into
these
establishments
and,
of
course,
nobody's
going
to
give
you
permission
if
they
know
they're
there
illegally,
and
then
we
have
all
these
illegal
establishments
the
body
rubs,
and
then
we
have
the
booze
cans
and
all
this
and
we
try
to
bring
it
together.
But
we
expect
that,
because
we
have
the
bylaws
in
place
that
we
can
immediate
closed
these
establishments
down.
A
We
cannot
because
we
don't
have
the
tools
to
do
that,
because
what
holds
us
up
as
well
is
once
a
charge
is
laid
you're
waiting,
two
or
three
years
for
it
to
bit
for
it
to
get
to
the
court
system.
It
has
to
go
through
the
court
system
and
the
courts,
and
they
keep
delaying
and
delaying
and
delaying
the
court
date
and
you're
here
three
four
years
later,
that
individual
that
establishment
still
hasn't
been
charged
because
we
haven't
been
able
to
take
them
to
court.
That
is
the
big
problem
and
I.
Think.
A
What's
really
important
here
is
to
get
the
province
to
step
up
and
give
us
that
authority
we
need.
We
need
to
be
a
little
more
aggressive.
We
need
that
authority
to
go
into
these
illegal
establishments.
We
need
the
province
to
support
us
with
the
AGCO.
What
are
we
doing
here?
We
have
all
these
after
our
clubs
of
nothing
and
we
can
even
put
conditions
on
liquor
licenses,
because
the
province
didn't
step
up
on
that.
So
I
will
be
supporting
the
recommendations,
but
God
helped.
A
That
that's
okay,
so
those
are
my
comments
because
I've
over
the
years,
I've
always
had
I
mean
I've
got
establishments,
my
ward,
that
I've
been
working
on
for
five
or
six
years,
they're
illegal
they're
still
operating,
because
we
we
can't
get
them
to
the
court
system,
even
though
the
charges
have
been
laid.
So
those
are
my
comments.
Thank
you.
D
F
P
P
This
is
something
that
MLS
would
do
anyways,
but
I
think
it's
a
signal
to
the
industry,
one
that
feels
that
they're
a
bit
under
siege
right
now
with
the
closure
of
a
lot
of
venues
and
a
lot
of
what
they
see
at
times
is
red
tape
coming
from
the
city,
a
city
at
the
same
time
is
saying:
we
want
more
live
music.
We
want
to
promote
it.
P
A
J
J
J
The
the
metal
detectors
when
you
go
in
and
a
lot
of
these
establishments
are
parking,
are
packing
people
in
in
6,000
or
3,000
square
foot,
area
of
five
or
600
people,
and
certainly
that's
a
danger
when
it
comes
to
the
fire
department.
Should
there
be
an
accident
in
order
to
deal
with
that?
So
the
fact
that
we're
looking
at
it
is
something
which
is
promising.
However,
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
swiftly
on
these
establishments.
We
swiftly
address
the
issues
and
it's
not
an
issue
of
us
targeting
a
particular
community
or
a
particular
area.
J
This
happens
throughout
the
city.
The
other
problems
that
I
have
is
what
is
prominent
in
in
our
wards,
mine
and
constable
Kelly's,
that
we
have
a
lot
of
establishments
that
are
working
as
but
about
parlors,
and
they
were
advertising
services
of
sexual
services
and
those
services
are
something
that
a
lot
of
people
are
against.
These
rub
and
tugs
are
not
only
operating
in
plazas
they're
operate
in
strip
malls
they're
operating
in
plazas
they're
operating
in
houses,
they're
operating
in
apartments,
and
it's
very
difficult
in
order
to
deal
with
it.
J
Now,
speaking
on
that,
I'm
gonna
ask
folks
to
look
at
counselor
to
chalice
motion,
especially
the
one
that
he
says,
removing
the
restriction.
The
number
of
body
robbed
parlor
licenses
I
would
urge
you
to
vote
against,
creating
a
legibility
criteria
for
the
issues
of
body,
wrap
art
or
licensing,
including
the
requirement.
J
This
is
something
that
I
would
certainly
urge
you
to
vote
for,
but
removing
the
restriction
or
a
number
of
body
robbed
partners.
That
is
an
open
season.
Open
season
for
body
robbed
parlors
to
start
in
every
strip,
mall
in
every
plaza
and
then
ticking
to
go
on
Thank
You
counselor.
If
that's
there,
then
we
have
to
make
move
that
that
we
knew
it.
We
knew
it.
We'd
have
to
move
in
order
to
remove
it.
You
do
not
get
the
restrictions
out
in
order
to
remove
the
body
robbed
parlors.
J
This
is
not
something
that
the
premier
or
the
cabinet
can
go
around
the
table
and
say:
let's
do
this
I
know
the
counselor
has
good
intentions,
but,
however,
coming
from
a
different
part
of
the
world,
I
have
to
tell
you
it
is
not
as
easy
as
it
is,
and
if
we
ask
for
this
the
province
to
amend
the
City
of
Toronto
act,
it
can
also
open
other
things.
However,
the
proposal
is
there,
I'll
be
supporting
it
and
I
urge
the
rest
of
you
to
support
it.
J
We
need
to
make
sure
that
we,
as
a
as
a
city,
have
the
tools
required
in
order
to
address
the
licensing
issues,
people
that
decide
I'm
going
to
move
the
tables
outs
and
I'm
gonna
get
this
disco
one
overnight
or
an
entertainment
or
booze.
Can
we
also
have
to
make
the
have
the
ability
to
get
into
the
Robert
rub-and-tug
situations
and
close
them
down?
They
provide
services
that
are
not
for
families
and
they're
in
neighborhoods,
and
certainly
that
are
not
wanted.
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
A
F
Count
Sur
Carol.
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
I
simply
wanted
to
add
briefly.
It's
fine
to
move
the
motions,
even
moving
the
motions
that
ask
us
something
of
the
province,
require
a
staff
member
to
sit
down
and
write
the
letter
and
and
with
respect,
even
to
your
own
comments,
madam
Speaker,
but
and
also
through
you
to
the
other
councillors.
We
all
want
a
lot
for
miss
cook.
We
all
want
a
lot
to
happen
and
we
want
to
happen
right
now,
but
I'm
gonna
ask
councillors
with
respect
to
your
interactions
with
them.
F
Unless
what
I'm
going
to
be
asking
the
community
all
through
the
budget
process,
because
people
seem
to
be
complaining,
there
aren't
enough
resources
to
get
the
things
we
want
staff
to
do
done.
We
have
to
give
them
staffing,
how's
your
service,
how's
your
service.
When
you
call
MLS,
we
can
move
all
the
motions
we
want,
but
if
you're
not
prepared
to
fund
and
put
the
staff
in
the
departments,
you
really
can't
stand
here
and
scream
there's
not
enough
staffing.
They
need
more
resources.
You
have
to
put
them
there.
So
get
used
to
hearing
me.
F
Ask
this
question:
over
and
over
again,
how
was
your
service,
because
if
it's
not
great,
you
can
address
it,
you
can
address
it
very
soon
because
our
budget
is
coming
so
whatever
you're
moving
today
be
prepared
to
resource
it
when
the
budget
launches
and
you
see
those
documents
in
December.
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker.
Those
are
my
questions.
Thank
you
comments.
H
Thank
you,
madam
Speaker,
if
we
could
put
it
on
the
screen
or
just
review
it
for
a
second,
the
City
Council
direct
the
executive
director,
mr.
licensing
senator
Ward
on
the
powers
of
the
city,
Toronto
already
has
to
regulate
holistic
centers
under
the
health
protections
and
promotion
act,
the
police
services
act
and
so
city
zoning,
bylaws,
I,
look
I'm,
not
an
expert
in
this
field,
but
I
know
it's
a
major
problem
in
Ward
10
and
across
North
York.
H
They
are
becoming
increasingly
prevalent
in
school
zones
and
neighborhoods.
They
are
attracting
a
kind
of
clientele
that
we
do
not
want
to
see
in
our
local
neighborhoods
I'm
fielding
increasing
number
of
complaints
about
the
goings-on
there,
the
violation
of
the
regulations,
the
violations
of
their
hours
of
operation,
the
the
contravening
of
zoning,
bylaws
and
so
forth.
H
Councillor
carol
has
mentioned
resources,
and
it
is
true
that
in
only
the
only
way
to
to
enforce
our
various
bylaws
and
to
respond
to
council
directives
is
to
properly
resource
other
departments
and
I
can
go
back
over
the
last
couple
of
years
and
what
has
zapped?
The
energy
out
of
municipal
licensing
was
clearly
in
the
the
taxi
uber
fight
which
took
up
hundreds
of
hours
of
staff,
time
major
battle,
not
only
in
committee,
but
on
the
council
floor
and
when
we
were
focusing
on
that
on
that
issue,
which
was
a
major
issue.
A
H
That
that
is
really
what
we're
dealing
with
now
we're
dealing
with
the
fallout
from
a
policy
issue,
the
taxi
uber
fight
that
absorbed
and
took
the
oxygen
out
of
this
room
and
absorb
hundreds,
if
not
thousands,
of
hours
of
staff
time,
but
going
forward.
I
think
it's
very
important
that
we
take
the
tools
that
we
have
rather
than
create
new.
We
take
the
tools
we
have
and
make
sure
they
work,
and
we
get
tough
on
the
on
the
professional
holistic
Association.
Who
is
issuing
these
licenses
without
due
diligence?
H
Who
is
enabling
some
of
this
behavior
that
they're
fully
aware
of
and
it's
time
to
get
tough
on
them
and
make
sure
that
the
we
can
put
a
break
and
stop
these
illegal
holistic
operations
from
from
damaging
our
neighborhoods
from
hurting
kids
and
for
creating
a
public
health
hazard.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.
D
D
The
thing
that
bugs
people
in
my
ward,
that
makes
them
call
me
and
complain
about
the
level
of
service
that
we
get
is
if
you
have
a
noise
complaint
and
you
want
an
MLS
inspector
to
go
out,
you're
told
there's
one
guy
on
overnight
in
the
entire
West
End
of
the
downtown,
and
that's
it
if
you
want
to.
If
you've
got
a
concern
about
property
standards
issue
at
an
apartment,
building
a
rooming
house
near
you,
there
are
now
two
people
in
the
entire
West
End
who
are
doing
those
inspections.
D
We
are
thin
thin
thin
in
terms
of
the
frontline
staff,
who
actually
deal
with
the
things
that
our
constituents
are
concerned
about
people
phone,
our
offices.
Now,
because
if
you
try
to
you
phone
3-1-1
and
try
to
get
someone
an
MLS
to
deal
with
a
problem,
you're
told
well
you're
on
a
list.
Now
and
we'll
get
to
it
when
we
get
to
it,
there's
this
refrain.
O
O
A
motion-
oh
yes,
I!
Do
sorry!
Madam
Speaker
I'd
like
to
place
the
motion
on
the
screen,
and
the
motion
is
pertaining
to
item
number,
four,
that
as
part
of
the
the
recommendations,
we
also
ensure
that
the
executive
director
of
MLS
does
broad
consultation
with
public
and
stakeholders,
including
business
improvement
areas,
business
owners
residents,
groups
and,
and
that
the
general
manager
of
the
economic
development
and
culture
on
the
licensing
requirements
for
entertainment
is
about
establishments,
nightclubs
and
so
forth,
and
the
rest
of
it
is
actually
very
similar
to
what's
embodied
in
the
the
recommendation.
O
Number
four.
So
really
what
it
is
two
sort
of
highlight,
the
the
the
exchange
between
Tracy
cook
and
myself
is
that
her
original
recommendations
did
not
have
any
public
facing
consultation
component
and
to
make
sure
that
there
is
going
to
be
that
as
it
pertains
to
the
review
of
the
legislations
for
eating
establishments
and
nightclubs.
But
I
wanted
to
get
back
to
just
saying.
Thank
you
to
the
Auditor
General.
In
her
her
exceptional
team.
O
We
have
been
as
a
counselor
of
a
very
busy
downtown
in
midtown
Ward
I
think
that
I
have
worked
fairly
well
with
MLS,
with
by
law
enforcement
on
trying
to
to
respond
to
the
concerns
of
local
residents
and
local
business
operators
and
property
operators.
Oftentimes
we've
been
getting
to
the
table
working
with
the
city
staff
and
falling
again
a
sort
of
falling
short
and
where
we
fall
short,
is
the
fact
that
we
have
out-of-date
legislation
and
a
framework
that
is
completely
out
out
of
date,
and-
and
this
is
why
it
is.
O
O
It
doesn't
especially
not
in
the
downtown
core
and
I
think
councillor
perks
would
agree
with
some
of
the
things
that
he's
experienced
in
his
community
and
so
forth
and
I'm
sure
every
single
one
of
you
have
pockets
of
your
neighborhood
that
have
these
these
these
points
of
conflict
and
friction.
We
know
that
that
Toronto
is
becoming
a
bit
of
a
24-hour
City.
There
has
been
even
talk
about
pointing
a
nightmare,
I
think
at
some
informal
capacities
we
have
seen
other
cities
embrace
a
very
vibrant
night
economy
and
Toronto
is
heading
in
that
direction.
O
So
I
certainly
welcome
the
fact
that
we're
gonna
take
a
deeper
look
and
try
to
nuance
with
some
intelligence.
What
this
new
licensing
body
should
it
should
look
like
in
terms
of
how
we're
gonna,
regulate
and
I
think
it's
absolutely
critical.
We
do
so
because
the
staff
has
been
a
lot
of
time
trying
to
enforce
rules
that
are
antiquated,
that
don't
work
and,
at
the
same
time
there's
a
different
level
of
expectation
in
the
in
the
in
the
community
and
I'm
hoping
and
looking
forward
to
the
to
the
results
of
that
outcome.
J
O
Not
quite
councillor,
that's
that's
that's
portion
of
it,
but
what
I'm
doing
is
simply
amending
recommendation
number
four
and
putting
in
a
public
consultation
component
to
make
sure
that
residents
association
BIA
s
the
actual
establishments,
everyone.
Everyone
is
part
of
the
conversation
because
they
need
to
understand
what
what
each
one
is
doing
and
why
they're
concerned
with
the
legislation
changes.
J
O
Councillor,
thank
you
very
much
appreciate
the
compliment.
I'm
going
to
perhaps
ask
the
speaker
with
some
indulgence:
I
won't
be
able
to
respond
on
behalf
of
MLS
I,
don't
know
when
they
can
bring
this
this
work
back
and
and
what
else
they
have
on
their
work
plan.
The
is
that
possible.
Can
we
just
get
a
nod?
Can
you
come
back
with
the
row
work
in
February?
No,
no
I'm
getting
a
head
shake!
Okay
sure
should
we
do
you
want
to
put
down
q2
of
2018
like
the
second
quarter
of
2018
I.
A
O
J
A
F
F
A
A
F
A
A
A
Q
It
was
John
Taylor
who
is
my
chief
of
staff,
doing
her
job
counselor.
We
we
understood
it
was
fairly
evident
that
there
was
going
to
be
some
discussion
about
a
return
to
an
LRT
option,
so
Joan
doing
her
job
initiated
to
the
briefly
note.
It
had
input
from
various
people,
including
Rick,
here
who's
my
project
manager.
It
had
input
from
John
Libby
at
the.
C
Q
C
C
Q
We
have
had
dialogue
with
John
Jensen,
the
former
chief
capital
officer
of
Metrolinx,
where
there
was
we
posed
a
question
about
the
design
at
Kennedy
and
the
chicken,
the
former
chief
of
capital
officer
of
Metrolinx,
basically
told
us
in
pretty
blunt
terms,
and
we
provided
the
evidence
to
the
AG
for
her
report
that
the
cost
of
changing
Kennedy
will
be
exorbitant
so
that
predated
the
briefing
notes.
On
the
briefing
note
and
these
the
eight
you.
Q
C
C
A
C
C
A
K
I
stand
because
I'm
only
hearing
our
staff
trying
to
answer
the
question
counselor
Matt
lo
continues
to
to
drown
him
out
with
his
voice
and,
quite
frankly,
the
insults
that
come
out
of
counselor,
Matt,
Lowe's
mouth
to
staff
lately
have
been
insulting
and
I
think
I.
Think
I
think
the
code
of
conduct
needs
to
be
looked
at
as
well.
Thank.
C
Count
privilege
again
respectfully
to
just
say
to
you
that
I
have
I
have
a
number
of
questions
that
I'd
like
to
ask
and
I.
It
would
be
helpful
if
I,
if
I
ask
a
question,
then
I
get
the
answer
to
the
question
and
then
and
then
be
able
to
answer.
Ask
another
question:
what
I'm,
not
I,
did
asked
for
a
number
of
the
responses
that
I'm
getting
two
other
questions
of
which
I
did
not
ask,
and
and
and
meanwhile
I'm
getting
I'm
getting
okay
I'm
getting
it
I'm
getting
various
councilors
get
up
insert
okay,.
C
F
Q
Thank
you
and
I
will
keep
it
because
I
do
understand.
We
need
to
keep
answers
brief,
but
I,
also
in
advance
of
the
briefing
note
being
issued.
I
also
asked
Bruce
McQuaid,
the
former
CEO
of
Metrolinx,
to
comment
on
the
content
of
the
briefing
note.
He
did
ask
me
where
the
three
billion
figure
had
come
from.
He
did
not,
though,
then,
to
comment
on
the
contents
of
the
briefing
notes.
So
the
answer
is
yes,
we
did
try
and
get
Metrolinx
input.
Thank.
C
A
F
You,
madam
Speaker
I,
appreciate
when
staff
answer
our
questions.
They
may
not
be
giving
the
answers
that
I
want
or
counselor
counselor
malla
wants,
but
they
need
to
be
free
from
intimidation
and
being
cut
off
so
that
they
can
give
us
the
answer
that
they
think
is
appropriate.
Camp
counselor,
mal
can't
say:
I,
don't
want
you
to
veer
off
and
give
me
answers
or
information
I.
Don't
like
I.
Did
this
my
questions,
counselor
marginal
questions
should
go
to
any
staff.
Member
staff
should
be
allowed
to
answer
as
they
see
fit.
Money
shouldn't
be
cut.
A
C
Madam
Speaker
I'm
sorry
I
asked
you
to
just
consider
I'll
leave
it
with
you.
A
lot
of
time
was
eaten
up
with
people
getting
up
and
hurling
things
and
saying
things,
and
talking
about
intimidation
and
and
and
various
answers
were
kind
of
ready
to
jump
and
I
just
had
some
specific
questions
that
I
wanted
to
ask,
and
I'd
really
appreciate
an
opportunity,
perhaps
at
some
point
to
to
ask
them
in
a
way
that
isn't
interrupted
and
constantly
sort
of
my
reputation,
dispersion.
Various
things
being
said.
It.
A
K
I
have
I've
stood
up
here,
regularly,
trying
to
describe
what
I
mean
and
say
and
do,
and
you
cut
off
my
mic
regularly
this
time
around.
For
some
reason,
counselor
Matt
look
can
can
abuse
staff.
He
can
go
on
air
and
radio.
He
can
do
all
the
things
and
challenge
people
and
lead
to
legal
wranglings
and
you
let
him
just
stand
up
and
do
whatever
he
wants.
No.
A
I
We
really
do
a
risk
assessment
and
I
can
only
refer
to
in
this
matter.
It
came
to
my
office
from
the
Ombudsman's
office.
She
was
asked
to
investigate
something
that
she
thought
had
to
do
with
a
financial
manipulation
of
a
briefing
note.
I
considered
the
fact
that
if
the
the
allegations
were
extremely
serious,
they
were
already
public
and
to
not
investigate
that
could
have
a
negative
impact
on
the
public
service
and
on
Toronto.
I
So
in
that
regard,
I
thought
it
was
worthy
to
consider
whether
there
was
accuracy
see
to
these
allegations
and
if
I
might
say,
when
I
start
any
investigation,
I
really
have
a
you
have
to
have
a
level
of
skepticism.
You
have
to
be
completely
independent,
and
so
what
I
did
was
before
my
investigation.
I
hired
can
phrase
who's
a
senior
managing
director
of
phrase
forensics,
and
they
were
the
people
who
actually
followed
the
money
in
the
mfp
inquiry.
E
I
I
E
I
You
absolutely
not,
in
fact,
my
role
is
to
report
with
neither
fear
nor
favor.
My
role
is
to
make
sure
that
I
report
what
I
find
that
I'm
completely
objective
and
I
stop
there.
It's
then
council's
role
to
take
things
from
there,
and
so
it's
a
challenging,
passionate
debate
but
I
had
I
felt
it
was
necessary
to
make
sure
that
whatever
the
situation
is,
it
was
serious
either
way
and
I
had
to
make
sure.
There's
clarity
brought
to
that
situation.
I
E
At
page
12
items
53
on
ridership
numbers
you're
right
initially,
this
is
about
according
to
the
complained.
Initially,
it
wasn't
clear
where
ridership
numbers,
where
ridership
numbers
to
justify
the
subway
came
from
not
from
keys,
mat
or
Byford,
so
who
threw
the
number
out
in
order
to
get
it
passed,
keys
mat
and
by
for
it
the
pressure
to
use
numbers
would
have
have
to
have
had
come
from
the
top.
So
that's
a
wholly
unsubstantiated
allegation
and
do
you,
as
Auditor
General,
feel
it's
necessary
to
delve
into
holy
and
unfounded
unsubstantiated
allegations.
So.
E
A
I
Your
last
question,
so
thank
you
and
through
you,
madam
Speaker,
given
the
seriousness
of
the
allegations,
we
just
had
to
do
enough
to
assure
ourselves
that
nothing
came
to
our
attention
that
would
indicate
that
there
was
wrongdoing
and
if
we
you
can't
just
do
it
early
on,
you
really
have
to
keep
digging
to
get
to
a
sense
of
comfort
that
there
was
no
political
pressure.
There
may
have
been
some
air
differences
in
opinion.
I
We
discussed
those
and
there
may
have
been
things
that
could
have
been
more
detailed,
maybe
did
better
distribution
of
the
briefing
note,
but
as
far
as
the
major
allegation
around
political
influence
to
come
to
a
different
result,
we
did
not
find
no
member
of
my
team
Sean
Mackintosh
a
senior
investigator
or
the
Ken
phrase.
We.
Nobody
came
to
the
conclusion
that
there
was
political
pressure.
We
saw
no
evidence
of
that
Thank
You.
F
Q
So
the
weather
people,
where
they
quote
six
hundred
million
dollars
what
what
they
I
think
the
reference
is
they're,
saying
that
there's
600
million
dollars
error
in
how
we
differentiate
it
between
the
one
point:
eight
billion
dollars
costs
of
the
original
NRT
against
the
one
point,
four
billion
dollar
that
was
then
used
for
the
subway.
So
the
way
to
explain
it.
So
it's
one
point:
eight
million
dollars
was
the
cost.
Q
I
think
everyone
in
this
chamber
agrees
was
the
original
cost
for
an
LRT
which
would
require
Kennedy
to
be
modified,
and
when
the,
when
council
decided
to
revert
to
a
subway
or
change,
the
plan
to
a
subway
Metrolinx
took
out
a
figure
of
three
hundred
and
twenty
million
dollars
to
drop
the
amount
to
around
1.4
billion.
But
in
doing
that,
change
the
alignment
to
cross
to
the
Crosstown
to
line
five,
the
LRT
across
the
center
of
town.
So
the
design
changed.
Q
So
when,
when
we
were
looking
in
the
briefing
notes
at
what
the
possible
implications
would
be
of
a
reversion
back
to
LRT,
it
was
logical
to
us
to
reinstate
that
300
million
for
the
design,
which
would
now
need
to
be
reinstated,
plus
300
million
dollars
for
escalation.
That's
where
that
figure
comes
from
okay.
F
Q
I
think
that's
and
that's
quite
clearly
set
out
within
the
other
two
general's
report.
This
there's
a
commentary
in
there
about
what
the
assumptions
were
upon
which
we
had
based
our
assertion.
That
Kennedy
would
be
an
impediment
or
draw
counselor's
attention
to
item
88,
which
was
the
point
I
was
making
to
councillor
Matt
Lowe,
where,
because
Metrolinx
is
former
chief
capital
officer
had
talked
about
a
severe
and
unacceptable
impact
on
the
project.
Q
We
understood
that
to
be
an
impediment
and
I'd
also
draw
a
council's
attention
to
item
101
where,
because
Bruce
mcquaig
had
queried,
why
we'd
use
that
three
billion
dollar
figure
I
had
Susan
sitting
to
my
right
here,
chief
capital
officer
for
the
TTC,
to
confirm
to
me
that
my
my
the
costings
that
Rick
had
supplied
were
correct
and
that's
set
out
within
the
independent
review
of
the
Auditor
General.
Thank.
F
C
Comment
was
addressed
to
me
and
I'd
like
to
have
some
clarity,
because
I
did
a
radio
interview
that
I
believe
is
being
referred
to,
may
just
get
clarity
on
what
comments
in
any
way,
disparaged
or
impugn
staff's
reputation
with
respect
to
Andy
Byford.
What
is
what
is
being
talked
about
and
what
is
being
implied
well.
D
A
A
Q
What
I
was
saying
was
yeah
you
have
to
have
a
thick
skin.
What
what
is
devastating
is
to
have
your
integrity
impudent,
whether
that's
through
insinuation
where
people
say
things
that
just
further
juxtapose
the
vast
majority
of
staffs
advise
against
one's
individual
advice
or
whether
it's
more
direct
than
that
where
people
say
openly
that
the
TTC
CEO
knowingly
included
items
in
a
briefing
note.
That
was
found
to
be
untrue.