►
Description
General Government and Licensing Committee, meeting 16, October 5, 2020
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=17056
A
That's
my
script
all
right
good
morning,
everyone
I'm
going
to
call
this
meeting
daughter.
My
name
is
councilor
paul
ainsley,
I'm
the
chair
of
the
general
government
and
licensing
committee.
The
clerk
has
confirmed
that
we
have
quorum,
so
I
would
like
to
call
meeting
number
16
to
order
and
welcome
everyone.
A
Today's
meeting
is
being
held
by
video
conference
city
staff
are
also
connecting
to
the
meeting
by
video
conference.
As
city
hall
remains
closed,
the
public
will
continue
to
participate
electronically
and
can
watch
the
meeting
streaming
live
on
youtube
at
youtube.com,
backslash
toronto
city
council
live
I'm
asking
everyone
for
their
patience
with
any
delays
and
technical
issues.
Today,
the
city
clerk
has
connected
all
registered
speakers
to
the
meeting
by
audio.
The
list
of
speakers
can
be
viewed
online
by
visiting
the
general
government
licensing
committee's
page
at
toronto.
A
Dot
ca,
backslash
council
clicking
the
speakers
box
for
today's
meeting.
Before
we
begin
I'd
like
to
remind
you
about
the
important
health
and
safety
measures
that
we
are
all
expected
to
follow.
Today,
all
in-person
participants
have
been
seated
two
meters
apart.
Please
stay
in
your
designated
seat.
Do
not
change
seats
or
sit
in
another
seat
when
entering
or
exiting
or
moving
about
the
committee
room
you
must
wear
face
covering
sanitization
kits
have
also
been
provided
on.
The
desktops
attendance
in
the
committee
room
is
limited
to
only
those
persons
who
are
required
for
the
meeting.
A
A
It
easier
for
me,
as
the
chair
and
for
those
watching
on
youtube
to
observe
the
members
as
they
participate
in
the
debate
and
vote
on
items.
Members
of
the
committee
also,
please
keep
your
mix
mics
muted.
I
need
more
coffee
this
morning.
Please
keep
your
mic
muted.
Unless
you
wish
to
question
staff
or
speak
to
an
item
and
ensure
that
your
video
is
turned
on
as
part
of
the
agenda
item,
I
will
ask
members
to
raise
their
hand
or
unmute
their
mic
if
they
wish
to
question
staff
or
speak.
A
I
will
then
create
a
speakers
list
and
we'll
call
on
members
when
they're
it's
their
turn
to
speak.
When
voting
on
an
item
or
a
motion,
I
ask
that
members
ensure
they
turn
on
their
video
and
raise
their
hand
to
indicate
their
vote
members.
I
also
want
to
remind
you
that
whether
you're
participating
in
today's
meeting
in
person
or
remotely
you
still
must
submit
and
approve
your
motions
by
email.
A
A
A
Thank
you
and
I
would
also
like
to
say
that,
although
we're
in
different
locations
and
meeting
remotely
today,
the
committee
would
like
to
acknowledge
the
land
we
are
meeting
on.
Is
there
a
traditional
territory
of
many
nations,
including
the
mississaugas
of
the
credit,
the
hanan,
the
chippewa,
the
honda
deshony
and
the
wendel
peoples,
and
is
now
home
to
many
diverse
first
nations
inuit
and
metis
peoples?
A
B
A
That's
where
I'm
getting
my
head
is
all
right
members
we
have
14
items
on
today's
agenda.
Item
number
14
gl14
is
election
of
the
vice
chair.
I
would
like
to
propose
that
we
move
that
to
the
beginning
of
the
agenda,
so
we
can
deal
with
it
because
that
position
is
currently
vacant
before
we
can
have
the
election.
We
do
have
one
deputy
on
this
item.
Mr
miroslav
glovic,
her
five-minute
presentation
in
the
committee,
mr
glovitz,
are
you
online?
C
C
A
A
A
Are
there
any
further
nominations
for
vice
chair
and
I
have
to
call
a
third
time
for
nominated
third
and
final
time?
Are
there
for
their
nominations
for
vice
chair?
Seeing
no
further
nominations,
I've
declared
the
nominations
are
now
closed.
Councillor
holiday.
Do
you
accept
the
nomination,
as
vice
chair
of
the
general
government
licensing
committee,.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Number:
six
co-location
of
housing
and
service
integration
at
twenty
nine,
fifty
and
twenty
nine
seventy
lakeshore
boulevard
west.
I'm
going
to
hold
that
one
for
speakers
number
seven
is
community
space,
tenancy
lease
agreement
and
municipal
capital
facility
designation
for
the
mitten
community
services
at
60,
1652
keel
street
in
ward
number,
five.
A
B
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Any
member
of
the
committee
can
ask
you
questions
individually
for
up
to
five
minutes.
Once
all
of
the
deputations
are
done,
we
we
call.
We
take
it
back
into
committee,
where
each
member
of
the
standing
committee
can
ask
questions
of
staff
on
this
item
for
up
to
five
minutes,
then
each
member
is
entitled
to
speak
on
this
item
for
up
to
five
minutes
and
then
at
the
after
that
we
will
vote
on
any
motions
or
the
recommendation
in
the
report
before
us
today,
which
is
to
receive
this
item
for
information.
H
H
Lakeshore
is
a
community.
That's
for
a
very
long
time
has
been
changing
in
some
places
very
rapidly
and
unfortunately,
part
of
that
change
has
seen
record
numbers
of
evictions.
This
includes
individuals,
families
seniors,
you
name
it.
The
truth
is
it's
a
difficult
time
to
be
a
renter
in
this
city
and
for
a
community
where,
historically,
there
have
been
a
lot
of
renters.
That's
had
its
repercussions.
H
I'm
a
little
bit
taken
aback
by
the
narrative.
That's
been
pushed
around
this
shelter
that
new
toronto
doesn't
really
have
any
poverty
or
homelessness,
and
this
would
bring
in
kind
of
a
new
element.
That's
not
true.
We
have
visible
poverty
on
the
lakeshore.
There
are
people
on
the
streets
sleeping
directly
outside
where
this
proposed
shelter
would
be.
This
wouldn't
bring
a
new
type
of
person
to
the
community.
H
We
have
everybody
in
our
community.
Quite
literally,
I
also
do
work
with
a
group
called
the
lakeshore,
affordable,
housing,
advocacy
and
action
group.
It
was
founded
about
two
years
ago
to
address
the
impacts
the
housing
crisis
has
had
on
the
community
and
through
many
outreach
activities,
community
events,
workshops
and
various
initiatives.
H
H
This
makes
sense
when
you
consider
that
we
already
have
some
existing
social
supports
in
south
etobicoke.
If
your
medical
supports
your
employment
supports
and
your
social
services,
and
also
your
neighbors
in
your
community,
are
all
in
one
place,
which
is
about
an
hour
and
a
half
out
of
the
downtown
core
by
transit,
it
just
makes
sense
to
have
your
housing
and
shelter
supports
in
the
vicinity
and
regardless.
H
I
know
there
is
some
pushback
to
this
shelter,
but
I
don't
believe
that
anyone
has
a
right
to
say
that
an
entire
group
of
people,
they've
never
even
met,
should
not
get
to
live
in
their
community,
no
matter
how
much
money
or
how
big
of
a
platform
that
person
has.
I
really
look
forward
to
the
new
shelter
in
our
community,
and
I
know
a
number
of
my
neighbors
do
as
well.
Thank
you.
A
A
I
I
You're
ready
great
thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
speak,
so
I
personally
represent
neutron
ratepayers
association
and
we
oppose
the
use
of
those
locations
as
a
shelter.
We
support
the
use
of
those
locations
as
permanent
housing.
People
need
permanent
housing,
so
we
do
not
dispute
the
need
for
shelters
in
ward,
3
or
anywhere
else
in
the
city.
By
the
time
these
buildings
will
be
will
be
built.
We
we're
hoping
that
they
will
be
permanent
housing
for
people.
I
So
it's
the
emergency,
shelter
component
that
we're
we're
proposing
we're
opposing
the
location
that
we're
looking
at
we've
had
over
2
000
residents
and
business
owners
in
the
community
have
signed
the
petition
that
you
should
have
attached
opposing
that
location
as
a
shelter.
We
think
it
should
be
permanent
housing
and
commercial
space.
So,
first
of
all
it's
a
misuse
of
taxpayer
dollars.
I
The
property
itself
was
purchased
for
four
million
dollars
and
and
has
a
combined
2020
assessed
value
of
5.3
and
the
city
is
proposing
to
purchase
it
for
13.8
and
then
to
put
on
top
of
that
pay
more
cost
for
temporary
shelter,
rather
than
the
cheaper
alternative,
permanent,
affordable
housing.
The
owner.
A
year
ago
had
proposed
to
tear
down
these
derelict
buildings
and
construct
two
floors
of
commercial
space
and
95
much-needed
rental
apartments.
As
the
last
person
said,
we
need
rental
apartments.
I
This
would
have
been
a
win-win
for
the
city.
It
would
not
have
cost
the
city
a
dime,
it
would
provided
many
affordable
rental
apartments
and
that
was
rejected
by
the
city.
Building
of
shelters
is
an
outdated
strategy.
On
september
30th
city
council
adopted
the
planning
and
housing
committee's
motion
to
shift
future
capital
and
operating
funding
from
shelters
to
creating
permanent
supportive
housing,
give
people
permanent
housing,
not
these
temporary
shelters.
They
get
kicked
out
of
every
day.
I
So
we're
urging
you
that
this
money
is
redirected.
This
location
is
redirected,
100
towards
affordable
housing
and,
ideally
with
commercial
space,
on
the
ground
floor
to
maintain
the
integrity
of
the
small
commercial
area
in
new
toronto.
So
people
do
have
a
place
to
go
to
work
in
the
neighborhood
and
don't
have
to
take
an
hour
and
a
half
transit
to
go
downtown
to
work.
They
can
work
in
the
neighborhood
they
can
shop
in
the
neighborhood.
I
In
addition,
the
there
is
a
women's
habitat
location
within
140
meters
of
this
proposed
location,
and
these
are
women
who
are
escaping
violence
and
abuse,
so
putting
a
male
shelter
within
140
meters.
Meters
of
that
location
doesn't
make
sense
and
putting
a
women's
only
shelter
on
a
main
commercial
intersection
doesn't
make
sense.
The
only
thing
that
makes
sense
is
to
make
this
permanent
housing.
I
You
know
the
city
of
toronto,
shelter
plan
calls
for
smaller
shelters,
integrated
into
the
community
and
a
hundred
bed
shelter
on
a
main
commercial
intersection
is
not
small
and
not
integrated.
We
already
have
four
existing
shelters
and
adding
and
and
the
services
that
support
them.
This
will
be
adding
burden
to
those
services.
So
we're
saying,
affordable
housing
is
a
is
a
better
transition.
It'll
help
people
in
those
existing
shelters
transition
into
permanent,
affordable
housing
in
the
community,
which
will
free
up
the
existing
shelter
beds
that
are
needed
for
new
clients.
I
So
we
support
a
plan
to
use
the
commercial
use
and
affordable
housing.
Only.
We
support
redirecting
the
money
towards
permanent
housing
which
will
align
with
the
forward-looking
strategy
presented
by
the
housing
and
planning
committee
and
approved
it
would
contribute
to
the
long-term
solution
to
end
homelessness
and
it
would
help
improve
the
new
toronto
neighborhood
so
that
people
are
in
permanent
housing
and
not
in
temporary
shelters
and
not
sleeping
on
the
streets.
I
So
the
residents
and
business
owners
of
new
toronto
are
strongly
opposed
to
the
purchase
of
this
and
and
locating
a
shelter
at
that
main
commercial
intersection.
We
really
urge
you
to
reject
the
proposal
to
make
it
a
shelter
and
to
redirect
that
money
for
supporting
the
creation
of
affordable,
permanent,
affordable
housing
at
that
site.
Thank
you.
A
J
I
have
always
lived
by
the
adage
there,
but
for
the
grace
of
god
go,
I
I
have
never
been
homeless,
felt
hunger
or
had
to
worry
about
supporting
myself
financially,
but
I
know
that
others
in
my
community
have
not
had
the
blessings
I
have
as
a
retired
elementary
school
principal.
I
have
always
been
an
active
volunteer
in
my
community,
giving
back
whenever
and
wherever
I
can.
For
many
years.
I've
supported
and
worked
at
the
out
of
the
cold
program
that
ran
out
of
st
margaret's
church
on
6th
street.
J
There
I
got
to
know
many
people
who
were
dependent
on
the
food,
shelter
and
friendship
that
were
offered
there
every
monday
night
during
the
winter.
As
part
of
the
breakfast
team,
we
made
sure
our
guests
were
provided
a
warm
breakfast
and
a
bag
lunch
before
they
headed
out
to
their
home
for
tuesday
night
due
to
covet
19.
This
program
was
forced
to
shut
down
with
winter.
Fast
approaching.
I
worry
about
the
people
I
got
to
know
over
the
years
and
wonder
what
their
winter
will
be
like.
J
Will
they
be
able
to
find
a
warm
safe
place
to
sleep
at
night?
Will
they
find
food
to
help
them
stay
healthy
enough
to
survive?
What
illnesses
are
spreading
around
our
community?
Will
there
be
supports
available
to
help
them
with
their
struggles,
whether
it
be
mental
health,
addiction
or
loneliness?
J
This
will
provide
much
needed
help
to
people
not
just
on
monday
nights,
but
every
night,
all
year
long
through
this
project,
people
can
get
the
help
they
need
and
hopefully
take
control
of
their
lives
again.
I
know
some
people
in
our
community
are
speaking
it
again
out
against
this
project.
They
are
using
the
same
old
excuses.
Our
property
values
will
go
down,
crime
will
go
up.
This
project
will
bring
in
homeless.
People
from
outside
our
community
statistics
show
that
none
of
this
happens
when
a
shelter
housing
project
is
put
in
a
community.
J
I
urge
this
community
this
committee
to
approve
this
project
as
quickly
as
possible
so
that
we
have
a
safe,
warm
place
for
the
most
vulnerable
members
of
our
community.
I,
for
one,
will
be
there
to
welcome
them
and
provide
the
support
I
have
been
doing
for
many
years.
Our
community
will
be
a
better,
safer
and
kinder
place
to
live
with
this
project.
Thank
you.
A
J
It's
a
great
reluctance
that
the
out
of
the
cold
programs
had
to
close
due
to
the
impact
of
cobin
19
virus,
and
in
march
the
out
of
the
cold
organizations
around
the
city
communicated
our
deep
concern
that
more
regular
shelter
arrangements
would
need
to
be
made
for
our
guests.
This
was
taken
on
by
the
city,
specifically
dixon
hall,
to
provide
a
consistent
place
for
them
to
stay.
J
Emergency
shelters
were
established
and
with
guests
no
longer
at
different
sites.
Each
day
advocates
for
housing
have
actually
managed
to
connect
daily
with
these
individuals
and
have
been
able
to
permanently
house
some
of
them.
Even
in
this
unprecedented
times,
the
out
of
the
coal
guests
are
just
a
small
part
of
people
experiencing
homelessness
in
our
city,
as
seen
by
the
various
encampments
throughout
the
city.
J
We
hope
that
the
lakeshore
shelter
proposal,
one
that
includes
potential
permanent
housing,
would
make
this
a
smooth
and
logical
transition
from
streets
to
homes
and
a
solution
for
some
of
our
population
experiencing
homelessness,
wonderful
buildings
which
offer
accommodation
in
invisible
spaces
for
people
of
little
or
no
means
aren't
possible,
and
even
if
they
were,
this
couldn't
just
happen
overnight.
It
takes
years
for
many
years
and
conversations
with
the
out
of
the
core
guests.
We
are
all
at
a
risk
of
experiencing
homelessness.
J
These
are
people
who
have
just
come
upon
hard
times.
People
with
medical
or
physical
challenges,
victims
of
abuse,
international
students
and
refugees,
just
to
name
a
few
of
their
life
challenges.
Their
needs
are
varied.
Some
just
need
a
temporary
helping
hand.
Others
need
a
very
supportive
helping
hand.
J
It's
so
wonderful
to
hear
our
city
leaders
are
actively
looking
for
places
that
we
can
use
for
shelters
and
housing
within
already
available
places.
I
think
we're
so
fortunate.
We
have
two
buildings
in
our
community
which
could
serve
this
purpose
so
well
now,
it's
not
the
time
to
put
roadblocks
into
the
first
serious
steps
to
address
shelter
and
housing
for
those
of
us
who
are
homeless
in
our
community,
the
west
end
of
toronto,
which
doesn't
have
much
needed
shelters.
J
Currently,
our
lakeshore
community
is
blessed
with
many
active
service
organizations,
lamps
storefront,
humber,
daily
bread,
food
bank,
salvation
army,
st
markets
wesley
united.
This
is
a
perfect
situation
to
have
a
shelter.
Housing
project,
where
supports
are
close
by
lakeshore
out
of
the
coal
program,
has
been
supported
by
so
many
perhaps
300,
diverse
volunteers,
retired
people,
business
people,
students,
businesses,
churches,
families,
as
well
as
people
with
experiences
of
every
kind.
J
J
We
are
faced
with
a
chance
to
help
our
fellow
torontonians.
By
being
an
example
of
a
community.
That
cares.
We
need
to
set
aside
our
imagined
concerns
about
what
this
proposal
may
be:
bringing
lower
house
prices,
raising
crime
levels
and
too
much
a
certain
kind
of
housing.
We
are
the
lakeshore.
We
will
meet
the
challenges.
We
are
great,
no
matter
what
we
need
to
take
on
this
challenge
together.
This
should
be
a
community
effort
to
make
this
a
success
for
others
to
see.
J
Let's
embrace
it
welcome
new
people
into
our
community,
who
will
be
our
neighbors,
our
customers,
our
worshipers,
our
workers,
our
classmates
and
our
friends.
Just
because
people
are
experiencing
homelessness
right
now
doesn't
mean
they
will
be
homeless
forever.
If
we
all
do
our
part,
let's
support
this
proposal,
as
we
try
to
end
homelessness
and
be
an
example
of
how
to
do
this
right.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
Thank
you
very
much,
ms
wiggle.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
of
the
deputy,
seeing
none
that
was
the
last
deputy
on
the
list,
I'd
like
to
thank
all
the
deputies
for
bringing
forward
their
concerns
and
opinions
this
morning,
it's
very
much
appreciated
by
the
members
of
the
committee.
At
this
point,
I'm
going
to
ask
if
there's
any
questions
of
staff
on
this
item.
D
K
D
K
D
K
B
B
Ms
bedard
talked
about
another
report.
That's
going
to
counsel
if
it
passes
committee
in
october,
and
I
just
wondered
if
we
could
understand
the
timing,
because
it
would
seem
to
me
that
it
would
be
wise
of
this
committee
to
make
sure
that
the
option
that
was
discussed
in
the
answers
to
the
questions
was
an
available
option
or
that
there
was
some
certainty
that
that
report
was
passed,
and
I
wonder
if
the
clerk
could
offer
some
advice
on
the
timing
of
these
two
reports.
B
Just
to
follow
up,
it
said
october
14th
in
the
report
of
the
does
does
if,
if
an
item
is
considered
at
the
october
14th
meeting
of
the
economic
and
community
development
committee,
would
that
be
enough
time
to
make
it
through
the
next
council
cycle?
Because
I
know
there's
some
very
strict
cutoff
dates.
B
B
K
B
A
A
C
Is
the
immediate
media
office
right
11?
Yes,
sir
number
11.?
Okay,
thank
you
for
the
sake
of
this
closure.
I
work
I
work
for
two
out
of
whatever
an
amount
of
sorry,
two
media
delivery.
During
this
day.
First
long
time
ago,
my
teenage
year
I
work
for
both
mainstream
media
and
on
non-mainstream
media.
C
C
A
A
A
Thank
you,
councillor,
holidays,
moving
the
recommendations
on
number
11.,
all
in
favor,
and
that
item
carries.
Thank
you
very
much
number
14
we
dealt
with.
We
are
going
to
go
back
to
item
number
three,
which
was
held
by
counselor
filion
counselor
phillian
on
item
number,
three,
the
2019
consulting
services,
expenditures
for
city,
divisions,
agencies
and
corporations.
E
L
Through
the
chair
counselor,
it's
andrew
flynn,
the
controller
I'll
start
the
conversation
and
then
certainly
the
chief
chief
purchasing
officer
can
can
also
talk
about
that.
Consulting
consulting
expenses
are
required
to
be
reported
as
part
of
the
quarterly
operating
budget
variances.
So
there
is
ongoing
review
of
the
the
amount
being
spent
on
on
the
operating
budget
and
then,
of
course,
this.
This
report
comes
back
to
committee
and
council
on
an
annual
basis.
L
All
of
our
consulting
contracts
have
to
follow
a
real,
a
strict
approach
with
respect
to
demonstrating
that
the
need
for
critical
skill
sets,
there
have
to
be
business
cases
that
support
support
that,
often
with
a
return
on
investment.
That's
that's
required
and
I'd
ask
the
chief
purchasing
officer
to
perhaps
talk
about
the
procurement.
F
Approaches
through
the
chair
for
each
consultant
they'll
either
go
through
a
competitive
process
or
they'll
leverage,
a
roster
that
is
available
or
in
some
cases,
depending
on
the
nature
of
the
consulting
work.
That's
required
may
require
non-competitive
and
that'll
all
depend
on
the
particular
circumstances
and
in
each
situation
the
size
and
scope
of
the
consulting
will
vary
by
project.
E
F
F
I
don't
know
if
it's
as
easy
to
suggest
that
we
would
have
all
the
skills
and
household
be
able
to
bring
all
the
skills
in-house
depending
on
the
nature
of
the
work
and
each
division
and
each
division
has
is,
is
responsible
for
determining
the
appropriate
use
of
consultants
when
they
require
it
or
not.
Like
so
they're,
always
taking
a
look
at
their
own
operations
to
see
what
the
capacity
is
for
for
their
work
to
be
done
in-house
or
whether
they
need
additional
support
to
get
that
project
or
get
that
advice,
completed.
E
But
you
know,
you're
gonna
have
a
certain
number
of
problematic
files
that
come
up
that
you
know
that
would
you
know
you
could
have
a
a
jump
one
year
or
a
drop
one
year,
but
these
things
tend
to
happen
in
predictable
patterns
that
okay,
we're
going
to
need
to
engage
outside
consultants
for
x,
y
and
zed,
and
I
can
see
how
any
individual
department
might
fluctuate
a
bit.
But
I
haven't
heard
any
explanation
for
why
numbers
would
you
know,
jump
up
dramatically?
E
L
In
that
context,
our
legal
department
does
not
have
a
large
group
of
folks
who
who
have
I.t
expertise
and
will
draw
upon
consultant
lawyers,
external
external
law,
firms
who
specialize
in
that
particular
area.
So
quite
often
it's
about
a
very
specific
type
of
expertise
that
is,
that
is
required.
That
does
not
exist
among
city
staff.
G
A
G
B
B
B
B
D
D
G
G
Yes
or
proposed
it
was
spent,
it
was
fantastic
and
that
was
I'm
very
interested
in.
So
that
was
the
city's
cause
to
review
a
project
from
waterfront
toronto
that
for
which
waterfront
toronto
had
50
million
dollars,
and
the
city
spent
250
000
on
consultants.
Do
we
have
a
list
of
those
consultants
that
you
can
provide?
Please.
G
L
G
G
L
G
G
Then
our
staff
costs
would
come
out
of
that,
but
I'm
not
sure
that
we
were
going
to
do
that
with
the
development
charges
for
keysight.
So
I'm
just
interested
in
how
we,
racked
up
that
actual
spending
and
on
consultants
and
perhaps
waterfront
toronto,
actually
owes
that
back
to
the
city.
So
if
you
can
confirm
that
with
me
between
now
and
council,
that
would
be
helpful
and
if
the
development
charges
for
large.
G
Initiate
city-initiated
projects
that
if
we
assume
the
consultation
charges,
I
would
say,
or
the
staff
charges
through
absolving
the
development
fee
requirement.
That
would
be
helpful.
Am
I
speaking
to
you
andrew?
Are
you?
Is
it
you?
Okay?
I
just
see
your
name
pop
up
here,
but
I
don't
have
my
video
on
so
I
can't
see
you
I'm
sorry.
Yes,.
G
A
A
G
I'm
I'm
just
interested,
and
I
know
councilor
phillian's
interested
in
what
he
says
is
the
like:
the
jaggedness
of
the
the
castle,
the
consultation
fees,
and
I
noticed
anyway,
I'm
just
interested
in
that
amount,
okay,
and
what
we
had
to
do
why
we
had
to
do
that
at
the
city
side
and
whether
or
not
that
we
should
capture
those
dollars.
Thank
you.
A
E
Yes-
and
I
don't
have
a
motion,
but
I
guess
I
do
feel
I
didn't
get
an
answer
to
the
question
of
why
the
amount
fluctuates
so
much
year
to
year,
and
I
I'm
guessing
that's
because
nobody
has
a
handle
on
that.
Just
the
way,
we're
structured
it
just
all
kind
of
feeds
up
and
then
whatever
it
is.
It
is,
and
you
know
I
don't
pretend
to
have
spotted
anything
wrong.
E
I
just
think
that
kind
of
fluctuation
is
odd
and
when
something
is
odd,
you
kind
of
look
for
an
answer
for
it
and
I
haven't
got
one.
So
perhaps
you
have
a
suggestion,
mr
chair,
I
was
going
to
move
a
motion
for
a
report
back
explaining
the
fluctuation,
but
I'm
not
sure
I
would
get
anything
different
than
what
I've
received
verbally
today.
A
E
No,
no,
no,
I'm
just
asking
for
a
further
report.
Okay,
unless
you
know
I'm
open
to
suggestions,
I
guess
it
doesn't
make
any
difference.
If
we
for
a
month
it's
a
but
it's
an
it's
a
information
report,
so
they're
the
only
reason
to
defer
it
would
be
to
have
both
on
the
same
agenda
so
that
they're
not
potentially
going
to
counsel
at
different
meetings
yeah.
So
I'm
open
to
your
suggestion,
mr
chair.
A
Yeah,
so
why
don't
we
defer
this
report
and
mr
flinder
missioli
can
do
an
additional
report
as
an
attachment.
So
we
have
two.
Our
next
day
meeting
is
november
2nd,
and
then
we
have
one
on
the
30th
I'm
just
I
know
the
timelines
are
always
tight
in
between
meetings
with
the
with
the
which
which
dating
which
one
do
you
prefer
the
second
or
the
30th.
K
A
B
K
A
A
E
E
Thank
you
in
some
supplementary
materials
that
came
out
friday,
the
number
228
hours
was
in
there
for
time
worked
by
ernst
and
young
consultants.
I
believe,
but
I
couldn't
unders
couldn't
figure
out
over
for
how
many
weeks
so
is
the
228
hours
correct
and
over
what
period
of
for
how
many
weeks
would
people
be
working?
228
hours.
F
Correct,
I
think,
as
things
go
like
that,
that
is
really
you
know
averaging
out
over
the
time.
It
may
not
be
that
each
individual
is,
you
know,
because
some
of
the
individuals
that
ui
will
employ
are
for
specific
subject
matter,
so
it
may
not
be
that
they
work
that
you
know
their
little
portion
of
hours
every
week
it
may
be
one
week
they're
working
more
one
week.
They
might
not
work
any
depending
on
the
particular
subject
matter,
but
there
are
certain
staff
in
ey
that
would
be
on
the
file
each
and
every
week.
E
E
F
A
L
D
G
G
Why
we
should
be
happy,
we
should
be
happy,
we
sound
alike,
I'm
happy
to
sound
like
francis
counselor.
I
just
I
just
want
to
ask
staff
about
how
they
would
break
down
a
large
contract
as
far
as
what
would
be
the
what
I'm
going
to
call
the
office
expenses
side
and
the
human
payment
side,
which
are
actually
two
different
things.
So
I
believe
they
are,
and
I
don't
know
if
you
have
a
formula
for
that.
L
G
Fee,
no,
I'm
looking
for
the
ratio
for
you're
paying
for
staff
at
erinston,
young
and
you're,
paying,
I
believe
in
there.
There'll
be
hard
costs,
so
lights,
computers,
all
those
kinds
of
things,
and
is
there
an
established
ratio
or
not?
You
know
we
have
a
little
contract
for
somebody
going
out
with
the
shelters.
They
get
a
certain
amount,
that's
to
cover
all
of
their
expenses,
but
when
you're
in
a
big
office
building,
I
think
there
must
be
some
hard
costs
associated
with
that.
I
just
don't
know
what
your
ratio
might
be.
G
F
Through
the
chair
that
they,
you
know,
the
overall
average
weighted
average
fee
for
ey
is
121
dollars
per
hour,
based
on
the
way
that
they've
structured
this
this
deal,
how
they
break
down
their
their
specific
hard
cost
for
for
their
or
their
min
fee
is
not
is,
is
buried
into
that
121
dollars.
So
not
every.
L
L
F
Well
through
the
chair,
what
I'm
the
contract
is
based
on
both
a
deliverable
and
a
monthly
fee,
and
they
have
different
resources
of
different
levels
being
applied
throughout
the
contract,
so
the
average
the
weighted
average
fee
is
121,
so
that
would
that
there's
you
know
employees
that
would
be
paid
higher
than
that
within
their
own
structure,
but
that,
from
our
perspective,
that's
how
the
the
weighted
average
is-
and
it's
in
relation
to
the
fact
that
there
are
deliverables
part
of
the
contract
is
deliverable
based.
So
it's
you
know
they
will.
F
They
need
to
provide
the
quality
deliverable
and
not
be
concerned
with
their,
how
long
it
takes
them
and
then
there's
a
second
component
which
is
around
the
strategic
sourcing
event,
which
is
a
monthly
monthly
fee.
So
there's
the
hourly
rate
becomes
more
relevant
there
and
we
want
to
ensure
that
that
we
find
the
benefits
that
we've
indicated
in
the
report
to
actually
get
a
return
on
investment
here,
which
we've
indicated
we
are
trying
to
get
110
million
dollars
in
benefits
to
the
city.
Both
cost
savings
and
cost
avoidance.
A
A
A
E
E
E
F
E
If
you
take
the-
and
I
haven't
done
this
so
bear
with
me
and
probably
counselor
holiday
who's-
an
accountant
and
I
barely
made
it
through
high
school
math,
so
I'm
sure
counselor
holliday
can
figure
this
out
better
than
I
can.
But
if
you
take
the
nine
sorry
you
take
the
eight
nine
five
thousand,
eight
million
nine
nine,
damn
sorry,
eight
million
nine
hundred
and
eighty
five
thousand
and
divide
that
by
fifteen
five.
Oh,
oh.
E
H
If,
if
you
don't
mind,
I
think
what
we
could
do
is
break
down
the
contract
into
the
three
components
and
andrew.
If
you
want
to
quantify
each
of
the
components
it'll
help,
you
better
understand
how
the
calculation
has
been
brought
together,
because
there
is
an
hourly
component.
There's
a
success
component
and
there's
a
deliverable
component.
L
Certainly
we
can
through
the
chair.
Certainly
we
can
do
that.
Thank
you
heather.
I
guess
counselor.
One
of
the
things
to
keep
in
mind
is
that
the
deliverable
component
that
mike
has
talked
about
is
not
our
dependent.
It
is,
it
is
a
it
is
a
require.
It
is
a
requirement
of
the
contract
that
they
have
to
comply
and
provide
the
the
deliverables.
So
if
they,
if,
if
princeton
young,
spends
hundreds
of
hours
to
deliver
that
deliverable
that's
over
and
above
the
15
000
hours
that
are
part
of
that.
E
F
The
city
would
require
to
spend
considerable
amount
of
time
going
out
trying
to
build
out
the
team.
In
order
to
achieve
this,
we
cannot
do
this
starting
november
1st.
This
would
probably
take
us
eight
to
ten
months
to
hire
an
individual,
and
we
believe
that
we
would
need
at
least
another
nine
staff
of
various
levels
to
be
able
to
do
this.
L
A
E
A
A
Item
is
amended
all
in
favor
carry
okay.
Thank
you
very
much.
The
item
is
deferred.
Yes,
the
item
is
deferred
our.
Where
did
my
agenda
go?
Our
next
item
is
number
five
renewal
of
proprietary
technology
maintenance,
contract
supporting
city
services
from
2021
to
2025,
councillor,
there's
also
supplementary
materials
routed
on
november
30th
and
a
reprised
report
on
september
30th
as
well.
Councillor
phillian,
you
held
this
item.
E
E
Let
me
so
let
me
move
back
one
step.
Would
I
be
correct
that
the
city
has
over
the
years
gotten
itself
into
contracts
with
technology
providers
that
it
becomes
very
difficult
to
get
out
of
as
in
go
to
a
different
supplier
provider,
because
we
get
locked
into
a
certain
technology?
Is?
Would
that
be
a
legitimate
concern.
M
Through
the
chair
counselor
in
response,
I
would
state
that
the
warding
is
actually
proprietary
technology.
So
therefore,
those
contractors
have
built
a
proprietary
technology
and
they
own
exclusive
rights.
That
would
be
the
terminology
that
would
be
used
so
they
purchase.
They
build
a
specific
software.
M
E
M
M
M
Through
corporate
services,
there
are
42
out
of
the
187,
approximately
22.5,
through
finance
and
treasury
services,
there's
15
out
of
those
187
and
through
infrastructure
and
development,
there's
72
out
of
the
187,
and
then
there
are
other
groups
that
fall
under
17..
So
that
would
be
other
groups
in
terms
of
whether
you're
talking
with
the
the
city,
clerk's
office
and
various
other
groups
that
fall
into
that.
That's
how
it's
broken
down.
So
it's
spread
across
the
whole
city.
E
M
No
through
the
chair,
I
think
it
falls
under
the
technology
services
division
through
a
centralized
approach.
What
we're
trying
to
do
is
that
as
we
walk
through
and
I've
got
an
example,
we're
working
with
some
of
the
divisions
on
something
called
enterprise
walk
management
system,
which
is
our
sort
of
asset
management
system.
I
think
it's
really
within
the
technology
services.
Division
is
working
with
those
divisions
to
understand
their
needs
and
ensure
that
we
are
not
procurement
based
on
just
a
divisional
purpose,
but
really
a
corporate
viewpoint
where
we
can.
M
There
are
some
of
these
technologies
that
what
we
call
operational
technologies,
they're
important
for
those
divisions
to
run
their
business,
but
I
think
it's
really
about
the
centralized
view,
and
I
think
we
started
that
process
through
the
chair
in
responding
to
the
counselor.
We
do
have
examples
like
our
salesforce
platform
for
our
customer
service
management,
where
we're
trying
to
ensure
that,
if
you're
going
to
procure
case
management
you're
coming
within
an
enterprise
view,
so
I
think
it
started.
We
do
need
time
on
this
situation.
M
You
know
has
taken
time
to
get
to
this
place
and
I
feel
confident
that
in
working
with
each
of
my
colleagues
in
the
division
and
walking
with
the
senior
leadership
as
we
prioritize,
we
can
actually
find
a
way
of
divesting
of
some
of
these
technologies.
That's
more
unique
and
come
into
a
much
more
enterprise
approach.
E
M
That
would
be
correct
through
the
chair
there's
division.
I
t,
as
most
people
know
within
technology,
surface
we're
the
corporate
function,
but
there
are
divisional
I.t
and
various
groups
that
do
not
currently
report
into
technology
services.
We
are
walking
with
our
colleagues
in
a
much
more
centralized
approach
but
currents
today.
Those
division
I.t
do
not
report
into
the
technology
services
or
the
chief
technology
officer.
K
A
A
Another
question
around
tech,
technology
or
older
technology,
and
I
think
counselor
philly
uncovered
this
pretty
well
about.
Can
you
just
clarify
how
we're
weeding
out
old
technology
and
system
programs?
I
think
you
pretty
much
covered
it,
but
I'd
like
to
hear
it
again.
I
think
you're
great,
doing
great
work
on
the
the
modernization
and
I
think
it's
very
much
needed
as
we
talk
around
for
prepare
proprietary
systems,
but
I
think
we
also
need
to
modernize
the
system
correct.
M
Yes,
through
the
chair
that
is
accurate,
what
we're
doing
is
that
they
are
within
technology
they're
contracts,
where
you
would
have
end
of
support,
so
no
more
support
is
provided
or
end
of
life,
the
technology,
the
end
of
life.
What
we're
stating
is
that,
as
the
city
is
moving
through
its
road
map
and
some
of
our
environments,
we
are
modernizing
as
quickly
as
we
can
through
that
process.
M
We're
ensuring
that
there's
certain
standards
and
what
I've
communicated
is
that
there
are
four
s's,
and
maybe
the
committee
probably
hasn't
heard
that
everything
we
do
now.
Certainly
we
demonstrated
that
through
cove,
it
has
to
ensure
that
any
new
technology
provides
stability.
We
are
stable
in
terms
of
how
we're
running
the
business.
That's
the
first
s.
M
The
second
s
is
that
every
new
technology
we're
looking
at
and
working
with
our
city
group
has
to
ensure
that
we
are
able
to
scale
we
can
we
can
we
can
go,
we
can
we
can
go
in
a
bigger
scale
as
we
need
it
based
on
the
size
of
the
city.
The
third
s
is
ensuring
that
the
solutions
are
built
are
being
built
out
of
a
whole
enterprise.
M
So
that
means
that
they're
integrated
within
all
the
other
services
and
we're
not
just
having
siloed
based
technology
and
then
the
final
s
is
that
we
are
sustainable.
So
that
means
with
making
sure
it's
secure.
It's
sustainable.
That
methodology
is
what
we
have
used
through
this
pandemic
that
has
successfully
supported
the
city.
So
what
that
will
do
through
the
chair
is
to
try
to,
as
you
said,
wean
out
some
of
these
old
legacy
pieces
that
are
no
longer
part
of
the
modernization
as
we're
moving
forward.
A
E
My
kind
of
remaining
concern
is
that
lawrence
doesn't
have
the
authority
over
these
187
contracts
and
I
think,
and
the
city
manager
does
and
I'm
sure
he's
exercising
that
through
the
deputy
city
managers.
I
just
think
it
would
be.
You
know
we're
dealing
with
such
large
amounts
of
money
here
and
a
pretty
major
problem.
I
would
just
be
comforted
by
a
report
that
said
everybody
is
cooperating
and
we
are
moving
in
the
right
direction
as
quickly
as
we
can.
L
A
Are
any
questions
of
the
mover
so
so
counselor
philly
and
I
just
wanted
to
so
to
clarify.
So
in
the
report
we
have
before
us
today
we
have
the
four
dependencies
which
outline
all
of
the
the
contracts
that
we're
talking
about.
So
you
would,
I
guess,
basically
what
lawrence
was
verbalizing
around
modernization
and
consolidation.
E
Yeah,
well
mainly
I'm
looking
for
that,
there
is
a
central
guiding
hand
with
some
authority
to
make
sure
we
are
moving
ahead.
It
looks,
I
think
we
clearly
are
moving
ahead,
but
you
know
lawrence's
ability
to
wrestle
187
contracts
is
limited.
I
think
so.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
the
directive
is
coming
from
on
high
to
do
that.
E
A
K
A
G
A
G
A
G
Yes,
thank
you
very
much.
I'm
wondering
if
I
see
this
is
coming
from
toronto
police
services
for
their
parking
enforcement
unit.
But
at
what
point
are
we
going
to
see
when
they
say
they
have
tickets
for
rush
hour?
Slash
bike
lanes?
Where
is
that?
Where
can
we
see
the
differentiation
of
that
for
the
number
of
tickets
that
were
given
out
for
rush
hour,
parking
versus
parking
and
bike
lanes.
K
N
I
had
superintendent
baptist
from
toronto
police
parking
enforcement.
I
am
on
the
line,
I'm
just
if
I'm
looking
through
the
report
that
we
put
through
the
toronto
police
services
board,
and
I
believe
we
do
break
it
down
in
that
is
that
has
that
report
been
provided
to
you
on
the
committee
for
reference.
G
G
G
G
K
Thank
you
very
much.
It's
casey
brendan
councilmember
fletcher
and
chair
ainsley,
the
report
that
is
item
16.1
on
today's
agenda.
It's
the
annual
report
on
parking
ticket
issuance.
We
report
annually
on
parking
ticket
issuance
and
attachment
one
to
the
report
gives
a
breakdown
of
parking
offense
types
and
the
number
of
parking
tickets
issued
in
2018
and
2019.
G
And
when
you
say
just
to
ask
you
about
this,
thank
you
when
it
says
6.56
and
a
half
percent.
Does
that
mean
that
six
and
a
half
percent
of
all
the
tickets
issued
or
six
and
a
half
percent,
I'm
just
looking
at
parking
three
hour
limit
park
longer
than
three
hours
penalty
amount,
15
number
issued
and
percent
of
the
numbers
issued,
but
it
does
not
have
the
for
the
actual
dollar
value.
G
K
K
K
K
G
So
I
it
might
be
helpful
to
actually
have
the
same
language
in
both
both
reports.
If
it,
if
a
police
service
is
saying
rush
hour,
parking
and
bike
lane
parking,
it
would
be
helpful
if
we
had
the
actual
ticket
name
with
a
bracket.
That
said,
that's
what
the
descriptor
and
then
I'm
looking
for
permit
parking
fines
not
parked
without
a
permit
or
I'm
looking
for
for
switch
over
fines.
G
A
J
A
G
The
officer
of
this
question
and
I'll
be
asking
again
at
council,
so
everybody
know
I'm
going
to
do
a
lot
of
work
on
this
one,
but
it
is
that
a
number
of
years
ago,
city
council
passed
a
motion,
a
bylaw.
That
said
the
grace
period
for
switching
when
parking
switches
from
one
side
to
the
other
should
be
extended
to
noon,
and
we
requested
toronto
police
service
to
extend
it.
Let's
say
it's
from
12
to
7
a.m
or
12
to
9
a.m
is
the
actual
permit.
G
Apparently,
toronto
police
service
has
a
grace
period
that
you
have
put
in
operations
from
9
p.m
to
midnight.
So
if
you
come
home,
you
can
start
on
the
other
side
of
the
street,
but
operations
or
at
that
time,
refuse
to
acknowledge
the
grace
period
in
your
operational
manual
from
whatever
time
the
parking
permit
technically
ends
to
the
noon
or
the
three
hours.
Have
you
revisited
that
in
any
way,
or
can
you
explain
why
it
could
be
a
grace
period
in
the
evening
and
refusal
to
put
one
in
the
morning
in
your
operations
manual?