►
Description
Afternoon Session 2 (3/3)
Licensing and Standards Committee, meeting 15, November 30, 2016
Agenda and background materials: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=10986
Morning Session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGRDMGUw0oc
Afternoon Session 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxS_VYgvs8
A
Between
attacks
and
a
user
fee
is
the
incidence
of
who
pays
for
it.
In
other
words,
a
property
attacks
is
applicable
across
the
city
because
everybody
pays
it
and
we
use
the
revenue
to
pay
for
a
service
that
presumably
everybody
uses,
but
not
necessarily
not
necessarily,
for
example,
education.
We
have
property
tax
that
helps
finance
education,
but
not
everybody
uses
it.
So
you
know
one
can
talk
about
the
rhetoric.
Is
it
a
fee
as
an
attacks?
At
the
end
of
the
day,
a
fee
generates
revenue,
a
tax
generates
revenue.
A
We
have
our
municipal
land
transfer
tax.
Is
it
a
fee
or
is
it
a
tax?
Doesn't
hit
everybody?
Not
all
property
owners
pay
a
municipal
land
transfer
tax,
the
only
property
owners
of
premium
units,
blood
land
transfer
tax
on
top
of
the
property
tax.
Are
people
who
buy
a
new
home
move
up
whatever
they
pay
an
additional?
Now
you
can
call
it
a
fee
if
it
were
attacks
a
bona
fide
tax,
it
should
be
included
in
the
property
tax
base,
but
it's
not
so
you
can
get
into
all
sorts
of
semantics
about.
Is
that
this?
A
Or
is
it
that,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
somebody's
paying
now
the
question
of
this
program
that's
being
put
in
place
is:
should
it
be
whatever
the
department
needs
to
do
a
better
job?
Should
it
be
financed
entirely,
but
everybody
across
the
city
IE?
Should
it
come
from
the
property
tax
base,
or
should
it
just
be
financed
by
the
350,000
rental
units,
or
should
it
be
financed
by?
However,
many
rental
units
are
really
the
culprits
out
there
or
the
landlords
I,
don't
know
how
many
there
are
might
be
50
might
be.
A
A
Only
so
we
rate
the
building
bad
news,
guys
it's
a
horrible
building,
and
that
may
let
me
what
happens,
is
it's
not
like
a
restaurant,
you
able
a
restaurant,
bad
and
anybody
that
uses
a
restaurant
can
go
from
that
restaurant
go
to
somewhere
else,
but
somebody
that
needs
a
roof
over
their
heads.
You
label
they're,
building
a
bad
building;
they
don't
have
the
option
of
going
to
another
building.
So
what
do
you
really
accomplished
and
exploring
that
kind
of
thing
not
a
whole
lot,
not
a
whole
lot.
A
Now,
the
more
we
impose
a
cost
on
those
landlords
that
are
running
a
bad
show.
Okay,
doesn't
matter
increase
the
cost,
they
won't
pay,
nor
will
they
fix
whatever
you
tell
them
to
fix,
because
they
know
that
you
don't
have
any
option
of
housing.
Those
people
in
those
buildings.
That's
what
the
problem
is.
The
problem
is
there
is
not
housing
to
accommodate
the
people
that
need
to
be
accommodated,
so
one
can
say-
and
one
can
say
well,
you
know
what
this
will
do-
a
better
job.
This
is
the
solution.
A
The
reality
is
it's
not
the
solution.
It's
not
going
to
go
after
those
people
that
are
the
bad
landlords.
We
have
to
find
an
alternative
solution
in
the
real
solution
is
to
be
able
to
find
more
housing
or
promote
actually
incentivize
to
have
somebody
built
more
rental
housing,
but
we
all
know
that
hasn't
been
done
for
the
last,
how
many
years
30
40
years.
We
all
know
that
hasn't
been
done.
A
C
A
C
C
B
C
C
Fifteen
percent
recovery
through
enforcement
action,
forty
percent
from
the
tax
base
and
that
number
to
council
directly
executive
director
to
report
to
the
Budget
Committee
during
the
2017
operating
budget
process
on
the
program
budget
in
the
12
additional
full-time
equivalent
staff
are
quite
to
implement
the
program.
So
mr.
chair
I,
what
what
I'm
going
to
do
is
support
this
report,
I
think
I
mentioned
earlier.
C
Those
are
the
people
that
we
want
to
target
and
while
I
actually
supported
option
b,
which
is
an
$11
registration
fee,
I'm
adopting
this
version,
which
is
option
D
with
some
more
full-time
equivalent
staff
added
to
it
and
with
all
those
numbers
attached
to
it,
because
I
think
we
have
to
go
after
those
bad
apples.
Every
single
one
of
us
can
say:
yeah
I've
got
three
buildings
in
my
ward.
C
I've
got
five
built
into
my
word
that
are
difficult
and
we've
got
3,400
apartment
buildings
in
this
city
and
currently
a
full-time
equivalent
of
24
staff
to
look
after
3,400
buildings.
So
I
think
the
staff
report
recommend
an
additional
six
full-time,
equivalent
staff
I'm
submitting
to
to
this
committee
and
a
council
that
it
actually
should
be
12
tional,
full-time-equivalent
staff.
I
really
think
we
need
to
go
and
help
people
who
need
help
and
if
you're,
a
good
landlord
we're
going
to
come
to
your
building
once
every
three
years
we're
going
to
come
to
your
building.
C
Look
at
your
building
and
say
it's
a
beautiful
building.
The
hallways
are
beautiful,
the
elevators
are
working,
the
garbage
room
doesn't
stink.
We
don't
see
any
nasty
bugs
we'll
see
you
in
another
three
years
from
now
and
if
you're,
one
of
those
dodge
road
buildings
that
has
got
a
very,
very
poor
record,
we
are
going
to
come
to
your
building
month
after
month
to
make
sure
that
you
allow
people
to
live
in
a
decent
standard
of
living,
so
I.
I
think
this.
When
I
look
at
the
entire
package,
I
think
it's
a
good
package.
C
I
again
like
counselor
to
Giorgio,
one
of
my
major
complaints
use
these
about
elevators
that
don't
work.
Unfortunately,
we
don't
control
that
legislation.
That's
provincial
legislation,
I
will
call
it
a
small
step,
but
an
important
step
forward
in
this
package
is
that
our
staff
will
now
go
as
part
of
the
registration
system
and
they
will
look
in
the
logbook
of
the
local
landlord
or
the
local
apartment
building,
and
that
way
we
can
find
out
pretty
quickly
you'll
open
the
logbook.
C
Can
you
say
gee,
you
aren't
meeting
the
provincial
guidelines
because
we
know
what
they
are
and
we're
actually
going
to
put
a
full
a
call
in
to
our
provincial
counterparts
and
we're
going
to
have
them
come
out
and
inspect
your
elevator,
because
your
elevators
aren't
up
to
up
to
provincial
code.
We
can't
enforce
the
provincial
code,
but
at
least
we
can
do
something
so
I.
Look
at
all
of
this.
C
This
is
a
good
step
for
it.
It
is
not
landlord
licensing
and
myself
councillor
Moscow
when
we
used
to
be
together
on
this
committee
and
others
we
advocated
for
the
beginning
of
the
rim,
MRAP
program.
We
we
wanted
landlord
licensing.
We
didn't
get
it
back
then,
eight
years
ago,
we're
not
getting
landlord
licensing
today,
but
what
we
are
getting
is
a
set
of
recommendations
that
will
improve
the
quality
of
life,
who
people
of
people
who
live
in
buildings,
hopefully
we'll
get
more
inspectors.
I
do
think
we
have
to
increase
the
penalties
and
I.
C
Think
counselor
Davis's
motion
will
address
that.
That's
in
the
staff
report
that
they
were
going
to
do
anyway,
but
I'm,
hoping
that
we
can
do
it.
I
think
we
need
to
go
to
the
rating
system
will
get
a
report
up
back
on
that
the
no
extensions
will
have
to
see
because
I
do
think.
Sometimes
when
you
order
a
part
so
I'm
at
two
minutes.
Oh.
C
C
Not
that
sure
about
those
numbers,
but
what
I
am
willing
to
do
is
make
sure
that
we
have
36
staff
in
a
city
of
two
and
a
half
million
people
taking
care
of
3400
apartment
buildings
and
that
works
out
to
about
one
staff.
/
y
initial,
if
I
can
finish
my
response
that
works
out
to
about
one
staff
person
for
every
hundred
building.
C
The
money
is
fully
funded
in
this
report.
Is
it
where,
as
my
if
the
motion
on
the
screen,
forty
five
percent
is
recovered
by
the
registration
fee,
fifteen
percent
is
recovered.
I'll
call
it
by
perhaps
the
bad
apples
or
the
revenues
from
enforcement
action
and
forty
percent,
which
I
is
not
access.
Prince
taxes
comes
from
taxes,
I'd
like
to
take
it
down
to
twenty
percent,
but
social
conversations.
E
C
E
E
C
E
C
E
Go
if
we
had
all
new
staff
people
for
the
City
of
Toronto
pretty
mean
that's
12
staff
people.
Do
you
realize
that
we've
already
hired
over
the
last
two
years,
350
staff
people
more
than
we
had
before
the
last
election
I've
seen
the
charts
all
right
so
now
we're
adding
another
12
people
and
we've
added
another
li
three
O'leary
counselors
to
counsel?
Yes,.
C
E
B
So
this
this
recommendation,
what
it
does
even
before
I
get
to
that
is
I
like
to
thank
city
staff
for
the
poor.
The
report
I
think
that,
what's
before
us
what's
before
this
committee,
it's
been
a
long
video
we've
been
waiting
and
we
have
almost
couple
the
populations
urano
that
their
tenants
and
they
do
deserve
and
to
have
a
system
that's
accountable
and
in
much
better
than
what
it
is.
B
My
dear
colleague,
cancer,
liver
maker.
That's
the
recommendation.
That's
a
poison
pill
right
now.
It's
done
on
a
fly.
We
haven't
had
any
recommend
any
consultations
with
stakeholders.
It
doesn't
make
sense
and
I'm
saying
it
very
respectfully
c
this.type
had
gone
the
extra
mile
to
consult,
even
though
that
some
members
of
council,
some
members
of
the
community,
don't
feel
comfortable
with.
What's
been
recommended,
but
I
believe
that
they
have
done.
B
They
have
gone
the
extra
mile
to
make
sure
that,
through
the
consultation
process,
we
do
the
right
thing
and
that's
the
right
thing
to
do
so.
Recommendation
to
D
is
the
one
that
we
should
be
going
for,
as
opposed
to
a
recommendation.
That's
been
done
on
a
fly
that
recommendation.
That
also
adds.
The
second
part
of
the
recommendation
adds
another
six
members
to
the
force
and
I
think
that's
something
that,
at
these
points
11
to
premature
one
of
the
things
that
I
wanted
to.
B
One
of
the
things
that
I
wanted
to
to
say
is
that
I'm
very
glad
that
we
are
going
with
this
regulatory
framework
by
law
and
hopefully
that's
going
to
be
implemented
as
opposed
to
the
licensing
by
law
that
was
proposed,
because
that
was
going
to
be
a
total
mess.
The
regulatory
by
law,
this
new
framework
will
provide
all
the
necessary
tools
that
city
staff
need
to
accomplish
that
the
city's
mandate.
What's
the
city's
mandate
is
to
protect
consumers,
consumer
protection,
safety
and
the
well-being
of
tenants
overall
throughout
xelectron?
B
I
want
to
remind
members
of
council
that,
on
july,
27
2016
at
City,
Council
I
was
the
member
of
council
who
asked
a
city
council
to
bring
a
report
back
with
regards
to
the
COS
recovery
and
under
the
model
of
em
Rob,
because
I
thought
that
that's
the
best
way
of
doing
it
and
that's
why
we
had
this
report
here
today
and
I.
Think
that
embraces
exactly
what
city
council
has
a
city
stuff
to
do
it
they
have
done.
B
Some
of
the
recommendations
that
are
before
us
is
by
creating
something
on
the
fly.
Is
that
that
a
good
landlords
are
there,
the
exhaling
Lenore's
that
they
never
have
an
audience
of
compliance,
they're
going
to
be
forced
to
pay
a
non-compliant
high
risk
for
those
who
are
breaking
the
law,
and
that's
not
fair
and
that's
Noah
hasn't
been
part
of
the
consultation
process.
On
the
other
hand,
when
we
think
about
tenants,
for
god
sakes
think
about
our
tenants,
Detroit
Community
Housing-
and
we
are
the
landlords,
the
Sutra,
many
landlords.
What
are
we
doing
for
them?
B
B
So
I
think
that
when
it
comes
to
regulations,
let's
be
fair
with
everyone
irrespectively
we're
dealing
with
tenants
within
the
private
sector
or
the
public
sector,
all
of
them
they
lead.
They
deserve
to
live
in
dignity,
and
we
and
we
had
to
it's
our
responsibility,
to
make
sure
that
we
do
the
right
thing.
So
I
think
that
creating
that
level
of
disparity
between
those
two
bodies,
it
doesn't
go.
Well
with
me
at
least
a
city
council
I
have
two
apartment
buildings
with
Trump
community
council
to
is,
and
they
complain
that
they
had
every
day.
B
Is
that,
literally
speaking,
that
they
cannot
get
things
done
and
is
not
the
fault
of
our
silly
stuff,
like
mini
spa
licensing,
they
are
trying,
but
we
all
know
that
we
don't
have
the
pants
number
one
number
two
is
the
level
of
flexibility
with
them,
so
I
think
that
you
were
serious
about
it.
Let's
just
use
one
single
standard.
Thank
you.
I.
D
Have
a
question
for
you
regarding
the
motion:
that's
on
the
screen.
Are
you
aware
that
your
motion
would
in
fact
be
out
of
order,
given
that
it
direct
staff,
directs
directly
directs
enforcement
activities,
and
we're
not
allowed
to
do
that
and
with
your
indulgence,
can
we
just
get
clarification
from
the
clerk
or
from
legal
staff
on
whether
or
not
this?
This
would
be
an
order,
because
I
believe
it's
not
is.
B
B
B
If
you
want
to
advance
you
have
the
remedy
remedy
aspect
or
you
take
them
to
court.
There
is
no
such
a
thing
about
that
level
of
flexibility,
where
you
have
a
layer
of
information,
so
the
same
law
that
we
have
that
applies
to
all
the
homeowners
across
the
sea.
Otro
no
should
apply
also
to
the
other
ones.
Now
we
also
have
with
a
good
landlords
out
out
there
with
apartment
buildings,
where
we
don't
apply
this
yeah.
B
D
In
no
way
am
I
actually
pleased
here
where
this
is
coming
from
I'm,
not
actually
challenging
the
content
of
what
you've
written
or
your
intent
or
motivation.
At
all
the
motion
itself,
though,
please
read,
it
is
giving
direction
on
specific
enforcement
activities,
which
is
outside
of
our
purview
as
a
committee
and
therefore
would
be
ruled
out
of
order
and
I
should
be
ruled
out
of
order
and
I.
Just
ask
you
if
you
could
just
ask
either
legal
or
the
clerk
to
just
speak
to
it
for
a
moment.
D
B
D
B
D
D
D
B
First
item
that
we
have,
we
have
a
number
of
motions
and
the
first
one
is
then
the
item
to
be
deferred
indefinitely
is
that's
from
cancer
m'lady
that
first
one
all
those
in
favor.
That
of
this
motion,
recall
recorded
vote,
recorded
vote,
all
those
in
papers
or
a
point
of
order.
Mr.
chair,
yes,
sorry.
D
I
don't
understand:
what's
going
on,
I
I
distinctly
remember
councillor
Mammoliti,
making
his
speech
and
then
kind
of
suggesting
that
he'd
like
to
move
this
motion,
excuse
me
and
then
and
then,
and
then
that
was
it
and
and
I
under
our
procedural
bylaws,
a
member
should
should
move
a
motion
before
they
make
their
speech.
So
I
don't
understand.
What's
going
on
as.
B
D
B
B
D
B
B
D
D
B
B
B
B
B
D
B
D
C
B
B
B
B
F
Right,
thank
you.
I
know,
you've
been
busy,
it's
been
a
long
day,
so
the
reports
very
clear.
It's
very
short.
It
says
that
the
closing
sentence
on
the
page
to
first
paragraph
it
just
says
the
province
of
Ontario,
is
deemed
that
the
nature
of
the
new
standards
is
not
significant
enough
to
require
that
all
buildings
be
retrofitted.
Basically,
it
says
when
the
building
codes
were
established.
The
buildings
were
in
confirmation
with
the
building
codes.
F
F
So
we
worked
with
staff
for
a
long
time
on
this
at
the
behest
of
Toronto
Community
Housing
about
three
years
ago,
Toronto
Community
Housing
had
a
stakeholder
meeting
called
in
the
general
manager
chief
general
manager,
a
Tracy
cook,
and
we
went
through
this
and
and
at
that
point
they
were
still
investigating
it.
Since
then,
mr.
sri
guru
has
extensive
building
code.
Experience
have
come
as
come
on
board
and
he's
agreed
that
the
letters
are
sufficient.
So
we
ask
that
you
just
continue
with
the
letters
as
staff
are
recommending,
and
that
concludes
my
remarks.
B
B
B
If
we
can
that
yeah
that
the
City
Council
direct,
the
executive
director
municipalities
in
standards
to
include
the
number
of
knowledge,
so
violations
and
also
compliance
issue
for
not
compliant
Esther,
will
gain
rains
and
the
annual
report
or
the
municipal
residential
apartment
building
audit
an
enforcement
program.
So
that's
for
this
to
be
part
of
the
MRAP
report
and
this
recommendation.
B
Actually
that
came
from
the
tenants
committee
chair
by
councillor
mallow
and
that's
a
recommendation
that
came
from
from
the
reports
on
just
putting
it
to
bring
it
forward
to
City
Council
because
I
think
that's
a
good
recommendation.
So,
having
said
that
is
it's
all
those
in
favor
of
the
motion
and
the
report
opposed.