Toronto City Council Licensing and Standards Committee, 20 Oct 2017

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From YouTube: Licensing and Standards Committee - October 20, 2017 - Part 1 of 2

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Licensing and Standards Committee, meeting 22, October 20, 2017 - Part 1 of 2
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=11888
Part 2 of 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39WXJmUgxko#t=7m14s

Meeting Navigation:
0:23:05 - Call to order

A

Would members of the licensing and standards committee please report to committee room.

B

One for quorum. committee room one for quorum.

B

thank you., good morning,, everyone.,.

C

We have a quorum and I would like to call this meeting to order..

C

Welcome to the 22nd meeting of the licensing committee.

C

As chair of the committee, I would like to extend a warm welcome to the members of the.

C

Public and those who are watching the proceedings online or tv.

C

If those of you who are in the committee want to follow the proceedings,, we have a tv screen.

C

In that corner of the room., and that provides real time up, there.

C

With regards to where we are in the agenda and what is coming, up.

C

The licensing standards committee gratefully acknowledges that we're meeting on the traditional.

C

Territory of the mississaugas of new credit: first nation,, the haudenasaunee,, the huron.

C

Wendat and home to many diverse indigenous peoples.

C

Any conflicts of interest that we declare? other than seeing none.

C

None. again, I have a motion to confirm the minutes.

C

Of september 18, 1917. councillor di giorgio.

C

Those in favor. against.

C

Carried. any communications?.

C

We do have the new communication from the vice chair councilor. With regards to this.

C

Communication., this will have to be added to the agenda.

C

Do I have a motion to add this item to the agenda.

C

Councillor karygiannis I'm going to ask to pass around this communication, so members.

C

Of the committee will have an opportunity to look into it.

C

And we have communications. is that it right?.

C

At this time., so now we have, we look at three items on the.

C

Agenda.- and we also have the speaker list and that.

C

Is on the green sheet., so I'm going to go briefly through the agenda.

C

And I hold down any items where we have speakers. the ls22.1 recites consultation on chapter.

C

510. we have speakers. holding this item down.. Then the next item ls22.2.

C

Dogs in school yards. and there is no speakers.

C

Councillor fletcher., the recommendation is to forward it to two.

D

To the school city school boards, advisory committee.

D

And they do not meet until the 25th, so I'm wondering though,. If there is a report.

E

Maybe that is what we do.. You do a report and.

C

I do have some questions on this.: let's hold this item down.

C

I was going to suggest deferring it for a month.

C

The next item- ls22.3.- and that is regarding notification to council.

C

Or offices. do we have.

E

I have questions on that.. Can we questions on that.

C

C

The item is held down., so we're going to have a good discussion,.

C

I guess now before we proceed the first item, okay.

C

That is fantastic.. Thank you and good morning.

F

The purpose of the staff report that is before you is to seek direction from committee and.

F

Council on clarifications on the prepared meals section as a result of the longo's case.

F

That has been through the courts over the last few years and the appeal.

F

It is brought here for direction because we need to remove the ambiguity in our current.

F

By law., we need to be clear to businesses, to employees,.

F

To the public and clear to our enforcement officers.

F

The city of toronto does not provide us with the authority to make some of these decisions.

F

And it is a challenging issue that has been before this committee and council over the.

F

Last number of years.: our report has a recommendation in it that.

F

Is asking for you to make it a little stricter or to have two options either to have a more.

F

Permissive or stricter piece to define, prepared, meals.

F

One on prepared meals or one on retailers that serve food.

F

It is challenging and been here a number of times, and the reason it is here is specifically.

F

On the prepared, meals, piece., nothing else., while prepared meals, is an exemption.. What we really need from you today is some.

F

Clarity, so we can clear up the ambiguity that is currently in the prepared meals, definition.

F

Great. thank you.

C

On that note, as chair of the committee,, I just want to remind everyone, city staff indicated.

C

That the issue was considered by city council in april of this year.

C

And because of the decisions that were made by the city, council, various decisions,, the.

C

Holiday shopping by law and the decisions of council restrict this committee in terms.

C

Of the date or further motions that members of the committee may want to place.

C

I want to be mindful about this.. I would like you to be mindful about that.

C

So the item before us. only with with public consultations undertaken.

C

By it on the expanding the application or the prepared meals, exemption and the holiday.

C

Shopping by law beyond restaurants- and that was explicitly.

C

Noted by council, that was to allow or the retailers like grocery stores, who prepare.

C

Meals to prepare on public holidays., that is the days.

C

The item does not deal with a broader issue of holiday, shopping.

C

And we wanted it to ask the debutants,. I want to ask public speakers that to keep.

C

C

To five minutes., so we have a number of speakers.

C

I'm going to call the first one. gary sands, followed by mark and henissey and.

C

Gary regis gary sands.

C

Gary sands. go to the next one, mark hennisey.

C

Good morning., I can see that we have 3 debutantes.

C

Are you all you have high? We did but the response initially we did but.

G

The response was because I'm the main speaker or the only speaker.

G

My colleagues here will be here to answer any specific questions around collective agreements.

G

Or if there is anything specific to the grocery store network because they represent the two.

G

Locals of the workers most affected, would it be possible to have your names please.

C

H

My name is tim delstron, with local 175 and 163 of the united food and workers union.

C

Thank you. executive assistant president for ufcw local.

H

1006. fantastic.

G

Thank you, chair. on behalf of the membership of ufcw canada.

G

I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee today to comment.

G

On the holiday shopping by law, review, we've already introduced the two colleagues.

G

To my right, who, both of whom represent workers in the grocery retail pharmacies and retail.

G

More broadly. ufcw canada is canada's leading private sector.

G

Union. we're more than a quarter million canadian strong. across toronto. We represent tens of thousands of members and together we're building stronger future for ufcw, canada and families and protecting.

G

And promoting employees, rights and social justice and equality for all.

G

Ufcw canada's leading force for workers in the retail industry. Our members are your neighbor,.

G

The grocery clerk or cashier you have gotten to know.

G

They work in meat, packing plants, hotels,, some work in nursing, homes.

G

Drugstores, food processing plants and many other sectors of the economy.

G

We're here today to say that we oppose the recommendation of expanding the prepared meals.

G

Exemption as would have a significant negative affect on our members, by allowing more grocery.

G

Retail and possibly including pharmacies to open on statutory holidays.

G

For decades,, the city of toronto has intended for prepared meals to mean restaurants.

G

Ufcw would like the city to continue to do so.

G

We feel that the whole purpose and intent of the by law is to provide citizens of toronto.

G

Time off from work to spend with their family and friend.

G

By expanding the definition and allowing more businesses to open,, this committee and council.

G

Will be changing that intent and, quite frankly, taking statutory holiday as way from thousands.

G

Of workers and residents across the city., this kind of change goes further, as it actually.

G

Attacks a specific sector and group of individuals., the retail sector is largely precarious, due.

G

To being part time and most being at lower wages.

G

It is a sector made up of a majority of women, newcomers to canada.

G

These workers look forward to time off with their family and friends.

G

These nine statutory holidays represented the definitive time where they can plan activities.

G

Outside of work. again,, let's be clear, we're talking about.

G

Nine days in an industry and a sector that would run 365 days, if allowed and in fact,.

G

The stores that are currently affected by expanding this definition already operate.

G

On every other single day, except for those nine statutory holidays.

G

If the by law was amended to allow more stores to be open, our members would also be faced.

G

With the extra stress of having to find child care on a holiday,, a study from the canadian.

G

Center of policy alternatives shows that in toronto, the average child care fees for infants.

G

Are 1649 a month. toddlers, 1375, a month.

G

And preschoolers at 1150, a month.. This committee and council would now be asking.

G

Parents to take on the added costs of child care on these nine holidays. That is, of course,.

G

If they are able to find child care spaces open on such holidays,.

G

For our members who rely on transit,, there would now be had added stress of getting to.

G

And from work on these days., the city runs a reduced transit schedule on.

G

These days, making it more difficult to plan a route to and from the workplace.

G

This could increase the costs of child care as well. If extra time was needed for travel.

G

Ufcw finds it odd that cities are making these kinds of changes in a time where mental health.

G

Issues are on the rise. studies now show one in five. Canadians will.

G

Experience a mental health illness in their lifetime and by 2020 depression will become.

G

The second leading cause of disability. as a society and to you as stewards of that.

G

Society, we would consider added. Why would we consider adding more to people's anxiety.

G

Or stress?, it is, for all of these reasons, the loss of.

G

Family, rest time, cost and access to additional child care and transit and the additional.

G

Stress and anxiety added to what is often already a difficult family work. Life balance.

G

That we oppose moves such as this, which would remove holiday from the city's residents, including.

G

Our members. and since I still have a small amount of time.

G

Left I want to mention that we did actually survey our members on this issue.

G

It sort of in its infancy, but already within just a day, we have about 99%, who would be.

G

Opposed to having more stores open or their stores open, particularly.

G

That was a direct survey with our members.. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak.

C

Thank you so much for your presentation.. You were right on time.

C

Great., I'm sure that we have questions for you.

C

And members of council, any questions? members of the committee?.

I

Councillor burnside,, please go ahead. in terms of the environment, let's use loblaws.

I

As an example., is there not an agreement where, if employees.

I

Work on that holiday, they get time and a half?. Yes, there is.

H

Absolutely., but you don't think given that I know now.

I

That environment has changed and there are a lot of low paying jobs or didn't used to.

I

Be the case 20 years ago.. Do you not think that some people might want.

I

The opportunity to make time and a half? based on the based on what we have done with.

H

Our surveys and respectfully the way the business is going now,, which is actually about going.

H

24 hours a day,, the majority of our members have voiced to us that the money isn't the.

H

Important thing at this point in time., it is the time that they have off due in fact,.

H

The limited days they get with the business demands of now.

H

So unfortunately, the money that you talk about and some getting time and a half or.

H

Double time,, with a lot of our members, it's the time off has been outweighed by the money.

H

That they're presented, and we find there is the business- is having a harder time trying.

H

To find people on holiday when they're forced to when they're forced.

H

To come in, if they have to be scheduled., the majority of our members would say I would.

H

Rather be at home and forego the money because of the limited times that I actually get.

H

But aren't a lot of your members part time?? Wouldn't they have days off just generally.

I

I thought the struggle at loblaws was getting hours as a part timer.

H

We've been progressively working with the company, especially with great foods and css.

H

To have better scheduling.- and we have found now with better scheduling.

H

That what has happened is our members now they'll get their hours, but they still have.

H

To have other opportunities to work for other jobs because with the cutting of hours,, it.

H

Is unfortunately, allowed them to get hours at loblaws, then having to go out and seek.

H

Another job. so really they're, working two and three jobs.

H

That in a week. okay. thank you.

I

And now, in the unionized environment at least we're not just talking about the unionized.

I

Environment,, I'm pretty sure loblaws, I'm just using it, because that is what I know.

I

They wouldn't be able to compel workers to work with.

I

Yes, they would. you as a union can't help them?.

H

Unfortunately, with the language that we have, since our conversion, language started back.

H

In 2010, there's language within our collective agreements that say the company has the ability.

H

To schedule the particular part time and even our full time, members giving giving them only.

H

24 hours notice. in some case, 48 hours.- that retrospectively when you were around- and I I imagine with the change in business.

H

Practices, the guarantees that we used to have in the conventional stores,. We don't.

H

Have those any more. there is no exemption..

H

We continue to fight for it. no exemption for stat holidays in that language?.

H

No exemptions. in terms of the compelling people to work.

I

In 24 hours., unfortunately, the compelling of 24 hours and.

I

48 hours happens. my last question., sorry to you. mark.

I

Yes. you made sort of a general statement about.

I

The accessibility of child care., so what would differentiate retail workers.

I

In that challenge, from, let's say, someone that works at a gas station or someone that works.

I

In a bookstore or antique store or in the restaurant industry.

I

What makes, you know, you're, asking us to to have a specific policy directed at you.

I

Said precarious work, but I would think the restaurant industry is precarious, as well.

I

You're asking us to have a specific policy for retail workers where that doesn't exist.

I

I'll even just use narrow it down to restaurant workers.

I

What why would we differentiate, or should everything be close, noticed.

I

Well, yes. one,. We would agree that everything should.

G

Be closed., we already have the tourist zone and I know that they're not going way.. I know that some places will be open.

G

We know that those areas are already open., so yes.

G

Everything should be closed.. There is no differentiation between the two groups.. I think they both face the exact same challenges.

G

In trying to find child care on those days, no matter.

I

What thank you.

C

Thank you, councillor burnside., any other questions?.

C

Vice chair karygiannis., thank you very much for coming and I look.

J

Forward to looking at some of the responses made by the workers, themselves.

J

I realize that,, you know, when you're going to sit around the table. Christmastime boxing.

J

Day, maybe, thanksgiving,, if you're called into work, your members will have a difficult.

J

Time saying to their family,, I will be there. realizing it would, if somebody that is working.

J

At any other store like this,, they may have a difficult time in finding someone to look.

J

After the kids., schools are out.

J

So what what would happen to those families that have kids, single moms or single dads.

J

And where would they leave their kids? school is out and day care day, care, out.

J

What happens to those families, those nine days that we're talking about.

G

So to understand your question, you're saying that: how are they finding child care right.

G

Now?, what would they do?.

J

If we were to force them to go to work, what fall back, will they have, child care, if they.

J

Have little ones well, they have to spend as much time as possible.

G

Looking for that child care., that is, that is our point saying that for.

G

Them it is another added stress of trying to find those child care spaces.

G

So if the regular day care that they normally go to are not open on those days, that means.

G

They're now looking at private, baby, sitters or families or friends or whatever they can.

G

Do to do that., but to do that at a last minute or even just.

G

To do that in general, no matter what is extremely difficult and stressful.

J

They would, if they have to go, and they usually we we would encourage them to take ttc.

J

Ttc is running on a weekly I mean on a holiday schedule.

J

That would take half an hour, hour extra for them to go. There?.

G

From what we could gather when we looked at it, probably an extra hour either way.

G

Depending on the timing of the schedule., if they work eight hour shift, looking at 10.

J

Hours. never mind thanksgiving dinner or christmas dinner and the private babysitter they have to find for a 10 hour. Shift.

J

How many people do you guess from your union will be put in that position?.

J

Give us a ballpark number, let me ask this: let me ask it different.

J

How many people does this if we were to allow during those holidays for people to work,.

J

How many of your union members, how many people in your union would be affected? Roughly?.

H

Well, in our particular local, we have no frills, your independent grocers,. We have loblaws.

H

Great foods and scs., we have thousands if you want to if we can.

J

1000, 2000 people? anywhere between 3000 individuals,, maybe more.

H

In regards to just at our grocery in great foods, and then we have to look at our no frills.

H

That are in gta. out of these 3000. Is it 10%,, 20%, 30% that.

J

Would be affected, 40%, 50%. on that particular day?.

J

On that particular day that have young families, any guesstimate?.

H

To be honest with you sir, I couldn't, I would belying to you if I ball parked and gave you.

H

An is it 10%,, 20%,, more than that?.

H

Family with us, yes., anywhere between 20 and 30%, if that was off.

H

The top of my head., if you have 3000 people that are working,.

J

30% would be between 800 and 1000 people that would be affected, that have little kids. That.

J

Would have to find day care in order to look after them.

H

That's just one segment., that is just one segment.

H

There is others., we have pharmacies.

H

From our other locals., if I could fad our local, we would probably.

H

Have just between the grocery retail we represent here in the city, about 1500 workers.

H

I would say out of that, a good 40% would be affected by this, where the store would be.

H

Open and people would be required to work and then, additionally, what is being contemplated.

H

As I understand it, through, these changes is looking at opening large pharmacy, which would.

H

Include our members at rexal, pharma plus, and then you have another 1000 members there and.

H

You have a 40% look, there, people be required to work.

J

Not one or two families, we're talking thousands of families that are affected.

J

Talking about thousands of people who would now be affected, who currently are not that.

H

Enjoy having a public holiday. thank you.

C

Any other questions? if not, thank you so much for your presentation.

C

Thank you. have a good day.

C

Next is gary rigus,, followed by deb henry. and tammy laport.

C

Good morning, good morning.

K

Thank you for the opportunity to talk about toronto's holiday shopping by law.

K

I'm gary and I'm the director of government relations for retail council of canada. retail.

K

Council of canada is the voice of retail in canada and represents more than 17,000 ontario.

K

Storefronts of all retail formats, including department,, specialty, discount,, independent.

K

Stores, online merchants and general merchandise,, grocery and pharmacy.

K

Our membership recommends over 70% of core retail sales in canada.

K

Government will understand that due to changing lifestyles and work, hours, significant segments.

K

Of the population are demanding more flexibility and retail hours of operation.

K

Further, there are many retail employees who observe different religious or cultural holidays.

K

Than the standard ones or who reviewer or appreciate the opportunity to earn holiday.

K

And/Or overtime pay., lastly, for significant number of our employees.

K

Who choose to work part time because of other commitments, including education, child care.

K

Or family care holidays may be among the limited list of days in which there are no conflicting.

K

Commitments or for which other caregivers may be available within the family unit.

K

Rcc and its members would applaud the elimination of the by law in a perfect world as retailers.

K

Want to respond to customer preferences. successful retailers are constantly tweaking.

K

Their business practices to achieve the delegate balance to responding to customer demand, while.

K

Being financially responsible and realistic. government decisions on increasing the potential.

K

Hours of operation increase of retailers ability to achieve this delicate balance by opening.

K

During days, including holidays that are best for his or her business.

K

And providing this choice, some retailers will decide to open while some may choose not to.

K

Open for business., regardless of the operation decisions made.

K

At the store, level, retailers would appreciate the opportunity to make that choice based.

K

On what they feel is best for the business and their employees.

K

Rcc believes that the decision on whether or not retail outlets should be open for business.

K

Should be at the discretion of the business owner without restrictions imposed by government.

K

If government insists on having rules on whether or not retail outlets should be open for business,.

K

Those rules should apply evenhandedly and not discriminate based on merchant size, type.

K

Or product offering., retailers should be aloud to determine their.

K

Own hours of operation based on consumer demand and employee availability and interest.

K

The retail world changes are happening, every day.

K

Retailers must adapt to remain relevant., so to must the city change to be more attractive.

K

In having businesses invest in the city and for tourism to flourish.,.

K

Businesses such as restaurants and theaters can be open on holiday and retail should also.

K

Be allowed to be open to support tourist and experience.

K

In today's environment, more people are visiting toronto with the us exchange rate.

K

Retailers want to truly be open for business.. It is interesting in a recent newspaper article.

K

About the taxi licensing in toronto., the statement was made. The regulation governing.

K

For example, uber allows to aim innovation in the marketplace without loss of public.

K

Value that the city needs to protect., this approach was put in place to support.

K

Different operating models., I find it interesting that the city won't.

K

Use this approach with the holiday shopping by law and instead is stuck in the past.

K

Rcc cannot support an approach that lets others to be open and forcing others to be closest.

K

For these reasons, we support the elimination of this by law.

K

This allows the retail community to determine their own hours to meet the participated consumer.

K

Demand., this approach has been successfully used in.

K

The western provinces, bc, alberta and saskatchewan and there is no negative impact in those jurisdictions.

K

Health thought toronto approach on this issue. It is stuck in the past.

K

Don't miss the opportunity for positive change. Thank you.

C

Thank you.. You have a question?.

C

I just checked with the chair and he had been quite clear about what this meeting is. About.

L

Are you aware it is only about prepared foods and how to determine prepared foods in our.

L

By law, I'm aware of that and.

K

It is not about any of the nine holidays, anything other than prepared foods.

K

I understand that., your deputation seems to be talking about.

L

All nine holidays, rather than just prepared food.

K

I wanted you to understand that it is quite narrow that council said we're, leaving the.

L

Stat halls and we have to determine how to approach prepared, foods.

K

I appreciate that councillor.. Thank you.

L

Thank you. just for I'm not sure councillor. If you were.

C

Here from the beginning, I was very clear that the item that we're dealing with today, it.

C

Doesn't deal with broader issue of holiday shopping overall, and I did ask debutantes.

C

To focus remarks on the topic that is before us, otherwise, those remarks would be outvoted.

C

So those remarks would be outvoted.. I was very clear at the very beginning.

C

Having said that, any other questions, maybe I misunderstood.

J

You are advocating for us to support allowing stores to open on stat holidays.

K

In a perfect world councillor, we would like the retailer to be able to make that decision.

K

Sir, in a perfect world, I sit around the kitchen table at christmastime and have dinner with.

J

My family., I would hope you would like those employees.

J

To do the same also. in this environment, councillor, you're able.

K

To do that and employees allowed to make the choice whether they want to work or not.

K

Based on the laws of the province under the employment standards, act.

K

To the best of my understanding. in a perfect world,, employers will not be.

J

Taking it out their employees if they refuse to go to work; however, in this world,, I would.

J

Say to you that if you don't go to work, you'll be marked by the employer and probably,, you.

J

Know, encouraged to leave. would I be incorrect?.

K

I think councillor in many cases we found that employees are grateful for the opportunity.

K

To earn additional money to be able to apply to the various factors that they have to provide.

K

For it is a voluntary thing., no one is forced to work, as I understand it. So if the employer calls through the chair.

J

To you and says,, I would like for you to come out to work on christmas day or thanksgiving.

J

Day and the employee says well, I don't think I want, because I want to spend time with my.

J

Family n, a perfect world, do you think that that employ would be very happy with that.

K

Employee? I the employer, knows that the employee is protected under the employment standards act and has the ability to refuse that work.

J

True enough, through the chair., how many employers do you think will be very.

J

Happy?, it is a voluntary kind of request.

K

There are other people in the employee pool that might relish the opportunity councillor.

J

Through the chair to the debutante, really appreciate your thoughts, sir.

J

How many employees, when the employer calls and says I want you to come to work, although.

J

Begrudgingly, you think they'll say no, knowing full well. If they don't go, they could be facing.

J

Employer discipline or employer, let's say be ostracized.

K

I'm not aware of those situations, councillor, to be fair.

K

So you're not aware through the chair that if an employee refuses to go,, they will be.

J

Marked. you're not aware of any situation like that no. our members want to comply with the laws of.

K

The land so through the chair, your members, will not.

J

Take it out on the employees., I believe that he has answered that question.

J

Thank you. I appreciate it. councillor burnside go ahead.

I

We heard about this perfect world and christmas, which is a christian holiday.

I

Is your workforce all christian? our workforce is identical and mirrors what.

K

The population exists. there could be people that would not necessarily.

I

Even celebrate some of these holidays. that is correct.

I

thank you. thank you, councillor burnside.

C

Very straightforward., any other questions?.

C

Thanks so much for your representation, I would like to ask if the president of our.

B

Local gord could speak. he's up no. 7 if the two of us could swap.

B

Our speaking positions?, I think that is in order, and that is okay.

C

So you make a joint representation.. My name is gord curry.

M

The president of local, four and uni 4 and setting beside me is tony,. The vice president.

M

Of uni 4, local, four and 14 time going already.

M

Our local union represents 13,000 workers, mostly in the retail and service sectors. All.

M

Across eastern and southern ontario,, they work in warehousing and other service related.

M

Industries. about two thirds of our members work in greater toronto area, including under metro and loblaws family of stores.

M

I thank you for allowing me to speak regarding chapter 510 and meals. Exemption.

M

As you can imagine, this is an important issue that touches the lives of tens of thousands.

M

Of works in the city., I can tell you that 4000 uniform members are.

M

Directly impacted by any change made to chapter 510, rules.

M

This is a by law that ensures these workers receive much needed time off. The job.

M

Time to spend with family. time for some guaranteed rest on nine identified.

M

Days of the year., as you can imagine, it is difficult to plan.

M

A life when work schedules fluctuate from week to week.

M

No set work hours and when pay is well below average.

M

That is a reality for retail workers.. That is why our union spoke out strongly in.

M

Opposition to a 2012 city proposal to weaken these protections.

M

That is why our union spoke out strongly in opposition to a new set of proposals that.

M

Would have gutted the by law earlier this year.?

M

That is why we're speaking out again today. the staff report published on october 6, recommendations.

M

That city council expand the scope of the by law.

M

Allowing super markets and pharmacies that sell food now open their doors on public holidays.

M

That includes christmas, new year's, labor day, thanksgiving.

M

City staff has tabled two options: how to best do this. unfortunately,. Neither of these options.

M

Tabled are in line with the proposed uniform and other city unions and other advocates.

M

Made, and that was simply to clarify the definition of prepared meals in the by law.

M

Our proposal was to make clear what has been the historical application of the by law to.

M

Allow restaurants to open, but not grocery stores.,.

M

It appears city staff disagrees.. What perhaps most frustrating is the part.

M

Of its rationale, city staff continues to suggest there has been some sort of transformation.

M

Into toronto super market., they suggest that a supermarket 20 or 30 years.

M

Ago, never sold a prepared meal and only today do stores sell bbq,, chicken and sushi.

M

This is absolutely and completely false.. I tell you what matters a single mom may have.

M

To leave her kids with a baby sitter or christmas morning, because she has to pumping in on a.

M

Shift at a store or young person has to cancel plans with a loved one because they are told.

M

To put in a shift, minimum wageworker may have to take a taxi to work because no other transit.

M

Available., not only should the workers have the right.

M

To rest and recharge on holiday, but the rights of workers to fair pay and scheduling on holidays.

M

Won't be properly enforced.. Research in 2015 shows the public holiday.

M

Infractions were in the top five commonly reported in ontario.

M

During a special precarious work, employment blitz,, nearly one quarter of violations involved.

M

Holiday pay and scheduling. just because there are laws on the books that.

M

Protect workers doesn't mean they are enforced. further, extending the by law exemption without.

M

Request of greater enforcement of law only leave vulnerable workers more vulnerable.

M

We're not pleased with the options that are tabled by city staff, but we are especially.

M

Not pleased the two options, staff recommended extend the by law exemption to include supermarkets.

M

And pharmacies,, the more damaging of the two options.

M

On behalf of the union and our members,, I strongly urge this committee to change course.

M

And accept option one as the appropriate path forward. This. option would steer clear of.

M

A full opening and limit the exemptions to those statements that actually sell prepared.

M

Meals and at least particularly preserve the by laws original integrity.

M

Thank you for this opportunity to speak.. I look forward to your questions.

C

Thank you. any questions?.

I

Thank you through you to the debutante,. You have a concern.

I

That the city or,, I guess, the province as well,, they enforce law to the employment standards.

I

Is there an issue with enforcement as it currently stands?.

M

Yes. so you're aware of the court case involving.

I

Longos. yes., as it currently stands, it is not workable, but there are. Did you go into the drugstore.

I

Certain areas roped off and certain that are not.

I

If we can't enforce, if we don't have the ability to enforce,, what is the point of the rules?.

M

You do have the ability to enforce. Obviously, but you said we can't.

I

We're not enforcing. so to put rules extra rules in place. I don't.

M

Understand. tony,: do you want to read that?.

M

Right now, as of 2015,, there were 17,000 employment standards. Claims filed with ministry of labor.

M

About public holidays and public holiday pay., that is how many complaints there was.

M

So, at the end of the day, I guess council is going to have to make a decision on how they're.

M

Going to handle this matter., what we're looking at, in the perfect world.

M

What our world is, is not to have the stores open.

I

At all. at all. any stores? because, as you know, there are certain if you're.

I

Under 2400 square feet,, all these exemptions, right?.

I

So okay. you mentioned that about prepared meals.

I

You made a fairly strong assertion about staff's interpretation or the information that they.

I

Provided. I wanted to clarify that.. Are you saying that in the last 20 years there haven't been an increase in offerings of prepared.

I

Meals?, you don't think there has been a change in the landscape? there. Has.

M

But there has always been going back 20, 25 years, and these stores there has always been.

M

A snack bar some of sort where there was hotdogs, pizza,, pop, chips, stools that sat around.

M

There. some stores.

I

40 years they had the snack bars. grocery stores.

I

Not to be argumentative, that was more of a restaurant.. I'm talking about prepared, meals. sushi is a fair. You mentioned sushi.

I

You mentioned pizza. from my experience in grocery stores, that.

I

Goes along longo has a pizza oven.. That is a fairly recent development..

I

I would say no. no.

M

Okay, thanks. thank you.

C

Vice chair karygiannis, thank you. Chair.

J

In ontario, we're the largest municipality outside of our kitchener area.

J

How has this been look at by other municipalities about enforcing people to work on those 9.

J

Stat holidays?: do you have an idea how many municipalities.

J

Are enforcing their folks to do this or what other municipalities are doing?.

M

No. I wouldn't have any.

M

to our knowledge. We don't know any municipalities that are looking at this.

J

Being the largest municipality,, this would be, I guess where people would be looking what.

J

We do as we move forward, and how we treat our employees, people that work at the supermarkets,.

J

The labor movement. would I be correct in that?.

J

Yeah., if this were to happen, could your could your.

J

Union step forward and provide day care services for the people that have to work. So if they.

J

Have to leave their families,, they at least will have somewhere to leave their kids?.

J

Do you have that capability? no,? We don't have that capability.

N

What would happen is that our part time eventually,? What would happen is that they would be forced.

F

To work and if there is part timers whether it is a single mom or a single dad, and they.

N

Would be if it was passed and the stores were open,? What would happen is if they didn't.

F

Show up to work, they would be disciplined and after two,, three holidays, they would.

G

Be terminated., so we heard from a previous debutante there.

J

Is no discipline taken out on staff.? Are you aware how many grievances have been.

J

Filed as people have said, look I have got to take this holiday.

J

Are we in that position, yet? yeah.

M

We have thousands. just to add to that, in our local itself. I.

M

Said we had 14,000 members. 70% of those members are women.

M

70%, so we would have lots of single mothers in.

M

There, with kids. through the chair, and thank you for paying.

J

Attention,, chair and colleagues. how many single moms would you guess you had.

J

From your local? in our local just we're talking again downward.

M

About 4000 members in the toronto area itself., let me rephrase this question.

J

How many of your 4000 members that you have through the chair would be affected and will.

J

Have to work on those stat holidays?, I would say over half of them.

M

J

Out of those 2000, your 50%, how many would you say have small children that will have.

J

To make alternative means to leave them somewhere with grandma,, granddad or a nanny, because.

J

There is no day, care. educated guess I would say half of that as.

M

Well, maybe more. we're looking at 1000 people that would have.

J

One or two children. yeah., probably about 1500 kids that will have to be placed somewhere on thanksgiving on new.

J

Year's on christmas holidays, because mom and dad will probably mom, will have to be called.

J

Into work. absolutely.

J

How I'm blown away., I mean, what have you heard from your members?.

J

What are these fin hundred thousand people saying?.

J

I mean how is it going to affect their lives?? I know that a christmastime I have five kids.

J

And traditionally we say to our children that christmas, thanksgiving, there is dinner and.

J

We would like you to be there.. Although they're married, they go out of their.

J

Way to make sure they're there., how would that affect your members and what.

J

Signal will we give to the little ones when mom and dad cannot sit around christmastime.

J

To have dinner with them and thanksgiving., what signal are we giving?.

M

Absolutely the wrong message to send to your kids..

M

You said: it., I'm 56 years, old.

M

Don't let the hair trick you., I'm 56 years old.

M

I have yet to miss a christmas at my mom and dad's house.

M

And my daughter, I have one daughter and she's with me all the time, so it is not what you.

M

Want, you know, on these holidays is to have your son or daughter, have to maybe go with.

M

One of your other relatives an sit there, while you're at work.

M

That is not what you want., you want the whole family together.

J

One might have colleagues and said christmas is a christian holiday.

J

But this is not just the christian holidays., there is the other holiday that also affect.

J

You. absolutely. thank you. thank you.

C

Next speaker., so I guess you don't have the stats on how.

E

Many employees want to work and they can't work because they don't have. The hours are.

E

Not there. wouldn't have a stat, but we're out there talking.

M

To our members and you'll hear from some of them, and they don't want to work on these.

M

Stats. go ahead.

E

Probably some employees out there that want to work because they need the money.

E

There could be. do you have the stats on how many employees.

E

Have been terminated because, as you go, there is a lot of competition now, with with retail.

E

And a lot of them are closing up in toronto and they're relocating outside the city.

E

They're going to woodbridge and they're, going to other municipalities to work.

E

What are the stats on the number of employees that have been terminated because the businesses.

E

Have gone out of business?, I couldn't give you the stats, but I can tell.

M

You that in the stores and that there is a huge turnover in part, time.

M

A lot of these members, if they were big being disciplined that may be walking away and going.

M

To the next supermarket, like you suggest, or anywhere else.,.

E

But a lot of the businesses are closing up.. You realize that.

E

A lot of employees have been terminated because there is no jobs.

F

From our point of view, we're talking about grocery stores., I understand. grocery stores that are closing up, too.

G

From our point from our point and we work for we work for metro.

F

Metro does not move stores because they move into the busy areas and our major of our stores.

F

Are in toronto., well,, okay.

E

That is it for my questions. thank you,, madame speaker.

C

Any other questions? if not, thank you for your presentation.

C

Thank you. move to the next debutante and that is tammy.

C

Laporte, no. 5. good morning.

C

Good morning. good to have you here.

A

Thank you.. You have five minutes.

C

Please go ahead. good morning.

A

Thank you for letting me speak,, chairman, city, councilors and staff.

A

My name is tammy laport and I'm employed for a grocery store for the past 19 years.

A

I'm a member of uni 4104 and also a single parent.

A

Working in the grocery business is difficult., wages are low and schedules change week to.

A

Week. some nights, I work until 10:00 and I work.

A

At least three saturdays, a month., this makes precious time with my son extremely.

A

Limited. one thing I can count on are my nine stat.

A

To your yes, holidays. these are days, I don't have to stress about.

A

Where I'm going to find child care., these are day that I know I'm going to have.

A

A full day of quality time with my family.. These are day that I've worked hard all year.

A

For and I have earned them. these are day that I'm not willing to give.

A

Up., these are the days that you are assured to.

A

Be sitting with your family and enjoying quality time, and I should be, too.

A

Over the past several months, I have spoken with many of my co workers about the possibility.

A

Of grocery stores being open 365 days, a year. and the overall hemming response is in disagreement.

A

None of us want to work, and none of us believe that grocery store is an essential service.

A

That we should have our doors open on holidays.. All of us agree that we need our precious.

A

Time with our families., we are well aware that there are rules to.

A

Protect us and we have the right to refuse work on holidays; however,. We are all aware.

A

Of how many companies won't follow these rules.? We will be coerced and bullied, and many people.

A

Who either don't know their rights or too afraid of retaliation, won't speak up and they.

A

Are the ones who will be stuck working again? Their will.

A

Those are the most vulnerable workers., the new canadians,, the workers, who will be.

A

Threatened with hour losses in the future, if they don't work, holidays.

A

The young workers who have not yet found their voice to speak up against their employer.

A

These are the worker that we need to protect the most.

A

to keep a grocery store open on a holiday. Many employees will be affected.

A

You will need employees to prepare the fresh foods in all the fresh democrats.

A

Butchers, bakers, employees to serve the cut measures, stockers, canners, cashiers, customer.

A

Service as well as management., it is not like a pizza shop or small restaurant.

A

Where a couple of people are affected. we're talking many workers in every store.

A

The by laws should remain for its intended's purpose to allow restaurants and convenience.

A

Stores and essential pharmacy services to be open.

A

I know many of you are thinking. It is only nine days.

A

You're right., it is only nine days.

A

Not nearly enough for our families. only nine day that we can get together through.

A

Our hectic lives and work schedules. only nine day that people get to be with their.

A

Loved ones., we have lost sunday, dinners and sunday family.

A

Days for seven day, work weeks for us, the precarious workers and now we're in jeopardy of losing.

A

Our only nine days for 365 days a year, grocery shopping.

A

I wholeheartedly believe this is going to affect many families who already have lost.

A

So much precious time.. Thank you for listening to me.

A

I hope you heard me and please ensure my co workers and I keep our nine statutory holidays.

A

And ensure some quality family time. Thank you.

A

Thank you so much for your presentation.. We have a few questions from members of council.-.

C

Start with our first one. on regular schedule, do you work on weekends.

O

And you mentioned you work on saturdays, right?, yes.

A

I'm covered under a union contract, so in my contract I get one saturday and four.

A

And sometimes they will rotate it., either saturday, sunday or sunday and monday.

A

And it is supposed to be equal., so six saturdays off a year, sir.

O

It is already six saturdays in a year. You would be missing time with your family and.

O

Many people pardon me.

A

I work I only get six saturdays a year. Off. only get six saturdays a year, off.

O

Yes. you're missing all the other saturdays in.

O

A year from your families. yes,, sir.

O

you're in a unionized workplace. yes, sir.

O

many people not in unionized workplace might be missing much more of their weekends.

A

Yes, they are., and there is generally there has been some.

O

Conversation about people having choice. say if you or either a co worker, has family,.

O

Young family, would you be able to say I cannot work weekends and be able to be accepted as.

O

A absolutely not.

O

In situations like that,, you feel the choice is not there.

A

No. the choice is not there.

A

The companies want people to be available, 24 hours, a day, seven days, a week.

O

And if you're one of those employees who request that in days for family time and weekends,.

O

How would you be perceived by the employer? again,? Our contract does cover if a part time.

A

Person, for instance, I have 19 years seniority, so a newer part time person if they were to.

A

Request the odd saturday off, they should not lose hours; however, if more than one person.

A

Books, it all,. There is a lot of other that is in a union.

O

So on so many of those saturdays, where do you miss out that many other family that work.

O

Monday, through friday, get on a saturday that, from your families?.

A

Well,, I can't take my son to swimming lens.. I can't take him,, you know,. We can't do anything.

A

On a saturday. I get home at 5:00,, 5:30.

A

There is not much time left., and so these nine days help you at least to.

O

Catch up with your family. absolutely., if there are, if there are people who are not happy or if they feel like they're forced.

O

Into doing something,, where do they go and do they often go to get legal support or do.

O

They are they able access support to feel if they have been forced into a schedule?.

A

No., I think a lot of people are afraid.

A

they're, afraid to speak against their managers.. They know they control the schedule.

A

Especially in non unionized., I have many friends who work in the grocery.

A

Industry., what is the fear coming from,? What do they.

O

Think will happen to them if they hour losses.

A

Shift changes., maybe they'll, be working until 11:00, 12:00.

A

Every night, instead of working day shifts. you know,, they can do what they want.

O

Many of those things could happen without giving you a reason why it is happening?.

A

Absolutely, the business has changed is what their reasoning will. Be.

O

Thank you. thank you.

A

Councillor palacio: thank you, councillor. thank you, tammy, for coming today and telling.

L

Us why those nine holidays a year are so important to you and your family.

L

Last in april, city council voted to maintain the nine holidays.

L

But what we have to grapple with is the courts told us that we have to make provision for.

L

Prepared foods., I'm wondering, so prepared foods in any setting.

L

So somebody can buy them on a holiday.. Would you, in that case, looking at your grocery.

L

Store,, would you want us to make sure that that's all that could be sold that day,? It.

L

Wouldn't mean that the whole store could open up, but it would just be the rotisserie chicken.

L

Or whatever it is right there that has been prepared for someone to take home and eat.

L

Right away, well,, I think the control. I think that would.

A

Be impossible to control. in a pharmacy. I know somebody mentioned shoppers.

A

Drug you can rope off that area. grocery stores. You have fresh salads over.

A

Here, by the way I would prepare, so I would still be affected in the prepared foods if.

A

It was prepared foods., the deli is over here.

A

Would bakery products be considered fresh, foods?, no way to rope off the eggs and milk and just have whole chickens and pizza.

A

I don't think there is a way that a large grocery store could accommodate that.

L

If we would have to that, is what would have to happen by law.

L

If we were required by law to say, prepared foods like the pizza by the slice,, the rotisserie.

L

Chicken,, the pasta, salad that is prepared or the thai soup.

L

Obviously you know I eat., then we would have the option of just making.

L

Sure only those prepared foods are for sale or the entire store could be open?.

L

Are you telling us we have to make be sure that we don't open up the whole store in order.

L

To sell a couple of prepared, foods. yes.

A

I believe the whole store should be closed., except for what we by law, have to keep open.

A

Yes., if it was that we legally to have keep open.

L

Yes. thank you.. Thank you very much. thank you, councillor, fletcher.

C

Vice chair karygiannis, thank you very much for make your debutation.

J

How many children? is it one boy that you have?.

A

One son.: how old is he?.

J

He's 11. he's 11.. How important is it to him that you spend quality time with him, especially on thanksgiving.

J

On new year's and christmas day?, family day.

J

Family day., it is not part of the nine, but I'm talking.

J

The nine holidays., how important is it to him.? It is very important to him.. We always do something.

A

We go for walks., we go to the park., we visit family.. It is very important to him.

J

If you wanted, if we say that okay, those nine days, we're going to get you to work, and you.

J

Wanted to bid, I think this is what it is called to bid, so you don't have to go to work to.

J

Spend with him what are your chances of getting the nine days since you have to bid and you're.

J

A mom if we force you to work, those nine days., I'm sorry, I just couldn't hear.

J

Chair,, could you put my time on hold, please?? The debutante cannot hear.

J

It is tough., can we please just keep it quiet.

C

Council,, please go ahead.. Thank you. Chair.

J

It is very important that we allow the debutante to hear what we have to say and the chair.

J

Not only the chair, but the speakers will agree with me.

J

How important is it for you to spend this time with your family and if we were to force.

J

You to go to work,, would you be able to ask your employer to have those days off?.

J

Would you be able to bid in order to have those days off and how successful would you.

J

Be? um,, I'm not sure.

A

I don't know the answer to that.. I do have seniority so for myself, possibly.

A

I could get some of them off., but for my co workers who are in the exact.

A

Same situation as me, no. they, they can't give the whole store off that.

A

Would defeat it. if you were to say, no,, I'm not coming in.

J

Today, because it is a holiday. we heard from a previous debutante, you have.

J

The right to say no. what would your employer do?.

J

What results, what notification would have or results? Would you have?.

J

Would you be discipline noticed, I don't think they would refer to it as discipline.

A

They would refer to it as the business is changing..

A

Your hours will change.. Your schedule will be more chaotic than it.

A

Already is., if you got a normal schedule, they will go.

J

Out of your way to make your life miserable. yes.,.

A

You'll be targeted in other words? yes.

J

Thank you. appreciate it.

A

Thank you thank you.

C

Any other questions? thank you for your presentation.

C

Thank you. The next debutante is kim molin.

C

Good morning. good to have you here.

P

Good morning,, mr. chair, and members of the committee., thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

P

I'm a lawyer representing iqbal halal foods, which is also known as iqbal foods.

P

They support the recommendation in the staff report.

P

In particular,, iqbal foods support staff recommendation in the second option, namely that the prepared.

P

Meal exemption be expanded to permit stores that primarily sell of food to be open on.

P

Public holidays., I would like to tell you a little bit about my clients' store.. It is an independent owner, operated food store.

P

With one location in the thorn cliff park, neighborhood where it has operated since 1991.

P

It is a unique store in that it caters to the dietary ceremonial and religious needs.

P

Of a number of south asian communities., muslims,, sikhs and hindus and other religious.

P

These communities rely on the store to prepare their dietary and religious and ceremonial.

P

Needs as well as special needs associated with events such as births,, weddings and funerals.

P

Where their religions prescribe certain food and other types of requirements.

P

It serves customers not only from toronto, but from all over the gta.

P

As well as the united states. customers travel from places as far as sarnia,.

P

Ottawa, sudbury and cleveland to buy items that aren't available in their own towns.

P

On the religious holidays and life, events that are celebrated by the customers fall.

P

On or near days when this city's by law requires stores to be closed.

P

For example, in 2013, ead, a two day, religious festival fell just after thanksgiving day.

P

And on those days,, the customers often required special foods and special other services for.

P

Example, one such service that the store requires is the preparation of animals for ritual sacrifice.

P

That is something that is required by a number of religious..

P

If the store is closed, they can't access that service.

P

Sorry,, someone's cell phone is ringing, so this causes hardship for the store and.

P

Its customers. and, in addition, a number of the holidays.

P

In which the by law requires stores to be closed, reflect christian religious holidays.

P

And christian values.: not only does this fail to reflect the diversity.

P

Of toronto,, it also raises serious human rights issues regarding accommodation of religious.

P

And cultural differences., the store has been seeking relief from the.

P

By law since 2013 and has been raising these concerns, in particular, the human rights concerns.

P

Since 2014., we have raised these issues before the economic.

P

Development committee, before council,, with individual members of council, and with staff.

P

In the licensing, department. and frankly,, the city has failed to grapple.

P

With the issues or even to look at them., the recommendation staff report also does.

P

Not specifically address the cultural diversity issues that we have raced,, it does at least.

P

Provide a solution for the store and its customers. and therefore I recommend and urge you to.

P

Adopt the second recommendation in the report, namely to allow stores that primarily sell.

P

Food to be opened on holidays thank you.

C

Thank you.. We have a few questions of you.

C

start with councillor fletcher.. The staff recommendation actually is to seek.

L

Direction., would you agree with me?.

P

It is, but it provides two through you, mr. chair,. It is to seek direction but does provide.

P

Two options. the first one simply to clarify the prepared.

P

Meals. Exemption and the second to permit stores that primarily sell of food to be open on.

P

Holiday., primarily, the sell of food would be plus all.

L

The large super markets, it would be open- and you agree with me- that option no. 1 basically.

L

Says that the city has to look at accommodating prepared foods, but we should not expand for.

L

It the whole store. you're a lawyer, so I'm asking you if that.

L

Really is what no. 1 says to you. option. 1 does say that the option is to define.

P

Prepared foods and exemptions stores that sale prepared, foods.

L

Well, we have to live by because of the court case,. The city has to determine how we're.

L

Going to approach and deal with prepared, foods., you do agree with me?.

P

I agree with that, yes.. We have a couple of options.

L

One is to simply say, well,. If you have got prepared foods in your store, keep the whole.

L

Store open, which is what your suggestion is. actually,, just to be clear,. There are two.

P

Options in the staff report and the first one is to expand the prepared meals exemption.

P

To permit stores that sale prepared meals to be open on public holidays.

P

The second option is to permit stores that primarily sell of food.

P

So not just prepared meals. so to be open on a holiday.

L

The city has to deal with the by law because we lost our appeal.

L

We have to now have an approach to prepared foods., that's right.. We could have an approach that says okay.

L

The entire store is open. or we could have an approach that says, okay.

L

Just your prepared foods area is open. yes..

L

Do you agree?? We have really two options..

L

There is no recommendation.. The committee and councillors are going to.

L

Have to decide which way we want to go.. I agree.

L

So just to establish those ground rules, we don't have a staff recommendation, here.

L

We have some options to deal with our problem of prepared, foods.

L

And that in the council has turned down having the right simply to open on a statutory holiday.

L

In april, I believe we turned that down. yes.

P

My client did make a submission and raise these issues and they were not addressed.

L

Council has been very clear,, you would agree with me, city council on maintaining stat.

L

Holidays,, the nine statutory holidays in our city.

L

The nine statutory holidays. those holidays are, we did not make them up.

L

They're provincial statutory holidays., they are provincial statutory holidays, but.

P

The city of toronto is the only municipality in ontario that is exempt from the retail.

P

By law- and it has the ability to craft its own by law.,.

L

We have the city of toronto act.. We have to and prepared foods.

L

We have to determine how we're going to approach prepared, foods., but the statutory holidays. You would agree. We did not make them up.

L

They're, not city of toronto, holidays., they're province of ontario..

L

Here is the nine days that we're saying are statutory holidays, and now we have to deal.

L

With this prepared foods problem that we have., but you would agree that around the nine holidays.

L

In april, city council said,, we support workers having nine statutory holidays and that stores.

L

If they don't meet the 24, how many square footage, et cetera, that they're supposed.

L

To be closed., I agree that council made that decision, yes.

L

And that is about the third time we've to do make that., and so what we're really dealing today, we're looking at since we lost the court case on.

L

Prepared foods,, we need to figure out how we're going to approach that, whether it is.

L

Wide open or fairly restrictive. yes.

L

okay. thank you.. I wanted to clarify that we're talking the same language, here.

L

We are. thank you so much.

C

Thank you, councillor fletcher. thank you, mr. chair.

O

I wanted some clarification around the culture aspect around the holidays, that you're trying.

O

To shed some light on., you were saying that the holidays are predominantly.

O

Or mostly christian based, and that was a concern., can you explain why that is a concern?.

P

Why is it a concern? well, they're, not predominantly.?

P

I would acknowledge not all the holidays are christian based, but three that are explicitly.

P

Holidays. good friday,, easter and christmas are religious.

P

Holidays. new year's day is a day that is a holiday.

P

That is not new year's day in different cultures and different religious is different and also.

P

Thanksgiving day is a day that is often not celebrated by people of different cultures.

P

And because the reason why it is a problem is because it reflects a particular religion.

O

What the concern is that the holidays that are reflective of other communities are not.

O

Holidays or the concern is that these holidays should be functional. Days.

P

The concern is that people who don't observe those holidays are required to in the case.

P

Of my client to close on those holidays and that people and in the case of his customers,.

P

Are prevented from accessing foods and other things that they need, and often in situations.

P

Where it is on or about the time that they need things for special life events or their.

P

Own religious holidays. so, for example,, you mentioned certain communities.

O

That food serves religious communities.. Those communities have those festivals is.

O

Food prepared? not necessarily., they have the option to close on those days.. They do. they don't close on those days?. Sometimes he does close on those days.

O

Other days on those holidays, even though the communities might be celebrating on those.

O

Days, they're still open on those days., often because the community wants the store.

P

To be open., who works at generally, like the communities.

O

Of is there on the days of the holidays. Are there it is the same days as the children.

O

Might be. what impact do you see on the workers if the.

O

Store was to be open? on the holidays in the by law?.

O

The nine days. the workers, my understanding, is that the worker.

P

Whose work at the store live in the neighborhood and in the thorn cliff park neighborhood and.

P

They're often able and usually do walk to work.

P

The transit issue is not an issue. as far as child care,. Some of them would be.

P

In the same boat, as others other employees and some of them would have other options.

P

Family or other options for looking after children.

O

And if they, because you are talking about a specific client.

O

My questions are a bit specific.. If they are do they have. We had previous debutantes.

O

That said, they have six days off a year.. Do you have holidays where weekends are exemption.

O

Or how does the schedule works? I'm not aware how the schedule works, generally.

O

Okay. the statutory holidays in thorn cliff for.

O

Example, must not all, but most of them do go to school in public schools.

O

The children would be off on the days of the nine holidays, whether we like it or not.,.

O

You don't see any impact directly on the people that work on in this store.

O

Do you have an idea how many people work there?, I'm not sure of the numbers, but it is fought.

P

A large store., I believe there are less than 50 people.

O

Okay., so you don't really see a major impact in their child care or their family. I just don't know if there is an impact.

O

All right. thank you.

C

All right. now we have.

C

Okay., I'm sorry, before you. I had councillor nunziata.

E

A few of the questions were answered as far as the employees.

E

So right now is your client. How many days a week, are they open for your client?.

P

Right now, seven days, a week. except on the holidays, when he closes.

E

So would your client be able to accommodate as councillor fletcher spoke on, on separating.

E

The store? providing that service and it wouldn't have.

E

An impact?, I think he could.

P

My concern is that the first my concern with the first option that staff has recommended.

P

Which relates to store that primarily sell prepared foods,, I'm not sure my client stores.

P

Primarily, sales prepared food and I don't know.

P

I mean if the city is going to provide direction, that stores that sale, prepared meals, that.

P

Rope off the rest of the store can open,. That is one thing.

P

But there is a risk issue there if, if he doesn't sale enough prepared meals.

E

But would your client be able to do that? yes.

E

If he understood that would be affective yes.. Thank you.

B

Vice chair, karygiannis,, you're next., thank you through the chair to the debutante.

J

How many stores does your client have? one store.

P

As I said, it is a single owner operated store in thorn park.

J

How many employees?, as I mentioned, I don't know the exact number.

P

But it is fewer than 50. and they're unionized.

P

I'm not sure., they probably are, but I'm not sure.

P

Sorry. through the chair, you're representing him.

J

Here today? yes.

J

as their lawyer? yes.. If they would be unionized, you would be aware of it..

J

Is that correct?? I don't do their labor work.

P

I'm not sure., I'm here to deal with this issue.

J

Maybe you can get back to us. the other thing that I was going to ask is,.

J

You know, I'm going to leave it at that.]. Thank you.. Thank you for coming well prepared councillor, karygiannis.

C

Come on. we know to do better.

C

Let's be respectful of our public speakers., any other questions?.

C

Thank you so much for your presentation. thank you.

C

We go back to no. 4, deb henry.. Thank you for coming.

C

Good to have you here., you have five minutes.

B

Thank you for having me. good morning, council and committee.

B

I'm deb henry., I have been a grocery store work fore14 years.

B

And a member of the union. I have two children, six grandchildren, and.

B

My daughter, who is also a grocery store worker in the fresh to go department which makes.

B

The chickens, pizza and sushi. she has three children, myself,, my husband.

B

And my mother all live in the same home, trying to keep the family together.

B

My family is the reason I'm here today to discuss the importance of family values and.

B

Traditions., these large companies that already make multi.

B

Million dollar in profits every year feel they are losing out to the competition and.

B

Could be making much larger profits if their grocery stores that sale, the chicken, pizza.

B

And sushi could stay open. another nine days, a year.

B

Without consideration for the workers that are already stressed, overworked and underpaid,.

B

And lacking family time or just time to rest, their mind, bodies and soles.

B

Growing up some of my fondest memories are those holidays such as christmas and excitement.

B

Of waking up in the morning and christmas, when all of the family could get together.

B

I have tried to keep up these traditions, but find it increasingly more difficult with this.

B

Changing in times., my family gets together every sunday for family.

B

Dinner., which, on occasion, my daughter, cannot be present.

B

For as she is working. when I was growing up, retail stores were closed.

B

On sundays., we have already lost this day, which has become.

B

Part of the regular work week with no extra pay or the option whether to work or not.

B

My husband has eight family members and finding time to get together is becoming increasingly.

B

More different, we work hard to get together and teach the kids the importance of family.

B

And spending time. we only have nine days a year that we can.

B

Plan for family gatherings and event and in the future, our children will be told to wait.

B

Until they can open their christmas gifts before their mom comes home from work or do.

B

The easter egg hunt in the dark, because no one was home in the morning.

B

I ask you to consider what the impact would be, having grocery stores open 365 days a year.

B

On us and our families., I don't want my children growing up speaking.

B

Of traditions like something that their parents and grandparents had and something that was.

B

Passed and lost because of money.. This shouldn't be an issue of how much more.

B

Profits these companies can make, but about trying to preserve our families and respect.

B

And concern for the precarious workers that are paramount in making the companies their.

B

Profits., we need to get back to a time when we worked to live and not live to work.. Thank you for your time and consideration.

B

On this important matter, thank you.

C

Members. councillor fletcher, please.

L

Someone has talked about the difficulty and trying to find care, because schools, of course,.

L

Are all closed on those days.? The day cares are closed on those days.

L

I think that your industry is predominantly women workers. Is it not?.

B

Yes,, it is. who, for whatever reasons, have most responsibility.

L

For kids. and you may have a number of single moms that.

L

Work in the industry as well. so having the requirement to have the whole.

L

Stores, open, you're, saying would be not only would be very hard for maintaining your family.

L

Time which is important to you., would it also be difficult to find what you're.

L

Going to do,, you would be scrambling to find out.

B

Absolutely. I'm finding as a grandparent, and you know.

B

We are all getting older. we're finding that we're taking care of the children, so these parents can get out and work..

B

That is one the reaches that we, my daughter and her family live with us. So we can help.

B

Pick up the slack., otherwise she wouldn't be able to pick up.

B

The hours and grandparents are becoming the caregivers..

B

That is not by choice.. It is a necessity.

L

Out of 10,, how important is are those days for you for your time, you're checking with.

L

Your family. 10.5.

L

B

Thank you. councillor, karygiannis, you're next.

J

Thank you., I appreciate., I'm sorry., I may have missed it.. You said you have a daughter that also works in the industry.

B

Yeah. she works in the fresh to go department which.

B

Would be if they do decide to rope off the rest of the stores? She would still be obligated.

B

To work. she works in that department.

J

You yourself are also in the same industry. I am.

J

If it happens that your daughter is working,, you know, those nine stat holidays, you may.

J

Be able to fill in as the grandmother to look after the grandchildren.

B

Not might., I would have no choice.

J

Okay., supposedly you and her were both called at.

J

The same time to go to work,: where is the little one going to go? Then?.

B

Well,, the three little ones would what ages?.

B

My daughter's children are 10, 12 and 14. okay.

J

Where would they go? what alternative measures would you be able to find for them to be looked after?? I'm not sure.

B

I would have to say I mean,, possibly my 81 year old grandmother might out of necessity.

B

Have to or they are very young. would they have to stay home on their own?.

B

Something I don't want to think about. on christmas days. I have five daughters and.

J

It is tradition we open the christmas gifts and they're in their 30s and mid 20s right.

J

Now., do you also have that tradition that you open christmas days? absolutely.? Do you have the tradition,? You have christmas lunch or christmas dinner?.

B

Absolutely., I'm going move from there and ask you: do you.

J

Also have tradition of having thanksgiving lunch or dinner?.

B

Every holiday. every sunday you know we do the family dinner.

B

And then holiday, it is the opportunity to have people who can't at other times.

J

Those days is important for the 14,, the 12 and the 10 year old grandchildren to meet.

J

With their mom,, their grandma and their great grandma, 81 year, old?.

J

And sit around the table., usually we see on tv, we see families sit around.

J

The table and I'm sure that is very, very important to your family as a grandmother.

J

To see your grandkids open, their presents. absolutely.

B

Tradition since the beginning of time., I would hate to think it becomes a past memory.

B

For them. it that doesn't happen, you'll be very disappointed?.

J

Absolutely., if don't you go to work on your days, you're, called by your employer or and your daughter,? What are the chances of you being disciplined.

J

Or the chances of you getting the shifts that are, it would absolutely affect the future schedules.. Maybe the next week.

B

She would end up getting a late shift where she normally wouldn't, which of course, would.

B

Affect who is going to watch the kids? Because we have a set plan.

J

Is that a means of the employer trying to get.

J

Absolutely., thank you very much..

C

Thank you. any other questions?

C

councillor burnside. thank you.

I

Just to follow up on that. you're, confirming that the employer has taken.

I

Punitive action? yeah.

I

Okay., what would you think that restaurant workers,.

I

Police officers, firefighters, taxi drivers, people who work in tim, hortons or starbucks,.

I

What do you think that is just to name a few.? What do you think they do to be together on.

I

These holidays?, do you just assume that hundreds of thousands.

I

Of families aren't?, I would say that they probably struggle with.

B

It horribly. I'm sure they don't get to spend time with their families.. It is not by choice. I'm sure that they're.

B

There. it is their job and their employer is giving.

B

Them no choice but to work., so I wouldn't want to be in that position.

E

Okay. thanks. any other questions?.

C

If not. thank you for your presentation.

B

Thank you.. The next debutante is christine conner.

C

Good morning. hi,, good morning.

C

Five minutes, my name is christine connor and I work for.

D

Uni 4 national., my assignment, is retail sector.

D

Thank you for the opportunity to hear me speak today with regard chapter 510 and its prepared.

D

Meals exemption. in toronto, like other cities,, there are clear.

D

Rules governing the retail business can operate on nine recognized statutory holidays in ontario.

D

These rules are found in the city of toronto municipality code, 510.

D

The exemption says that the holiday shopping restricts don't apply to retailers who sell.

D

Prepared meals., in fact, this is exactly how the city of toronto.

D

And the staff of interpreted this prepared meals, language for decades.

D

I'm not even going to follow this.. I work part time in for metro for nine years before.

D

I finally got the opportunity to go full time.. I was the single mother.

D

I worked three part time jobs juggling my schedules and I looked forward to my nine.

D

Stat day that I could spend with my two children. now, my two children have children and I don't.

D

Want to see them having to be forced to work on a stat day because of prepared meals.

D

My grandchildren,, I have six grandchildren., I wouldn't want them. I was always raised to.

D

Have the sunday dinners as well like debbie. our holidays, we spent them together as well.

D

I don't want to see my grandchildren being forced to, or my son or my daughter, to search.

D

For somewhere, that is open that can take care of them.

D

They live in stonycreek., I live in berry and grandma would come to.

D

The rescue, but just more stress for the younger families.

D

When I worked part time- and I had my three jobs,- those stat holidays were the world because.

D

That was my time with my children and I knew nobody could take away.

D

Now it is, I believe it was councillor karygiannis that said this morning, about the ttc and how.

D

Would they get to work?? How would you get to work on the holidays?.

D

It is holiday service., it is instead of a six hour shift or seven.

D

Hour shift you're going to an eight hour or a 10 hour and looking for day care.

D

I hear over and over again that it is voluntary.. It is not voluntary in the stores.

D

It is volun told and if not, there are repercussions. The next week.

D

You can check the room here,, we have all been affected and for me that is going back. 15.

D

Years. we understand that prepared foods is prepared foods and we have to do something.. I would like you to consider restricting it.

D

As much as possible, not to allow the full premise open and if it is roped off in a certain.

D

Area, I think that we could probably work something that would work that way if it is just that.

D

Area., not the full store.

Q

Thank you for your time through you, mr. chair., and thank you very much for coming in today.. I don't know if you you don't have to if you.

Q

Don't want to, but did you say the name of your employer where you have been working?.

D

I work at metro. so I'll just use that store similar type of.

Q

Grocery store, that is where I shop down at market and engleton.

Q

If I was to go in there and again, we know the stores very well.

Q

There is a portion when you first walk in the door that sells the chicken and pizza.

Q

And sushi. fresh to go. all of that stuff. you're, saying to us that, even if the law and.

Q

The courts say that portion of the metro should open that the people who are selling flowers.

Q

At the opposite end of the stores- I guess there is the frozen food aisle and I said.

Q

Cream and dairy and all that other stuff, including light bulbs, laundry detergent and cat, treats.

Q

And grass that I buy all that stuff you're saying your preference would be to say, well,.

Q

If some people have to be restricted, say 10% of the store, the 90% of us be required to.

Q

Work or requested to work when it is a small area.

Q

Do you think the store should operate like that or want to?.

Q

You're speculating I know. if you want to do something around prepared.

D

Meals, you're giving them the option if they want to rope off that certain part of the.

D

Premise because the whole store is not prepared, meals.

D

like I a restaurant., it would be that certain section..

D

So if you allow to have that certain area, roped off, telling you it is voluntary, so.

D

If they could get the volunteers to work it,, then they could open it.

D

If they can't, then they won't. right.

Q

Let's assume they have one full time person working there during the day.

Q

Again, you're saying that you don't want to sell on a statutory holiday.

Q

You want to be at home and if, if there is going to call it skeleton.

Q

Staff or smaller staff down at the other end of the store you say people will draw lots.

Q

Or there are volunteer that may be some people that want to come. In.

Q

Others who do not? But somehow, if we have to do that,, which impinges on your ability to.

Q

Take a vacation, just do it that portion not the rest.

Q

My guess, if you have a metro or owns, and we can sell more flowers,, too, and more light.

D

Bulbs., I can give you one example..

D

I was previously the president of local 414 for 14 years.

D

We had a store in chatham. and their by laws. They could open.

D

This could open on thanksgiving.. My phone was ringing off the wall.

D

Three weeks before thanksgiving from that store.

D

And the members were, they want volunteers, an open on thanksgiving.

D

We're not working thanksgiving., I said don't volunteer.

D

If nobody volunteers, they cannot open. and nobody volunteered and that store did.

D

Not open until this day that store did not open on thanksgiving.

D

And through you, mr. chair, in terms of I'll call it the reality on the ground, because.

Q

In theory, we all have rights not to work., but when I was in my teenage years and my.

Q

20S working in retail and first at mother's pizza and hudson bay and all those places.

Q

I certainly observed that people who the management didn't like suddenly got really short shifts.

Q

The minimum we were allowed to work was three hours., so suddenly, if they decided they didn't like you or me,, suddenly you would get five, three.

Q

Hour shifts., I would say it takes me over an hour..

Q

I live in scarborough.. We don't have a subway..

Q

It takes me over an hour just to get to work.. Put that in there.

Q

It takes me an hour just to get to work.. I work three hours, takes me an hour to get.

Q

Home., I'm really not I'm not really making minimum.

Q

Wage., so there would be a push, maybe not an outright.

Q

Firing, but certain things they would do to it would make it very difficult.

Q

Now that now I work there in my twenties., that was three decades ago.

Q

It has not changed., I was going ask you today and I'm seeing people.

Q

Behind you that are currently working in some of the grocery stores and retail, that can.

Q

Still happen. so even technically an employer may say we did not do anything against you.. You know actually what you did,. You changed.

Q

My shifts., they said that was a slow month.

Q

part of business. great. thank you, mr. chair.. Thank you very much for coming.

J

Thank you very much for coming. how many children are in the family?.

D

I have two children. ages, please. grown adults., 30 and 35, and I have six grandchildren.

J

Six grandchildren. did you? Do you get to spend time with the.

J

Grandkids at christmastime,, thanksgiving,, labor, day?.

J

Labor day weekend that we all come down and march with the union.

J

Do you get those days?? Those are my days for the babies.

J

It is also to spend the weekend where you can you know, on long we could, in the summertime.

J

You can enjoy the kids at the cottage,, the lake,, or take them down to the parade,. The.

J

Labor day weekend. was that important to you?

J

very,, very important., I'm not sure if your daughter.

J

I'm not sure if your daughter works for any of the stores.

J

She does not., probably mom's advice.

D

It was.: how long does it take you to get to work on.

J

A in a weekend which is ttv is running on holiday, schedule?.

D

When I worked in the stores,, I did not have a vehicle.

D

I was a single mom and I would have to take the bus and when they implemented the sunday.

D

Shopping back in the day, it was sunday hours on the bus.

D

It was not holiday shopping but sunday hours.. Would it take me an extra 45 minutes to get.

D

To work. so all together how long?.

J

45 minutes there. 45 minutes home and then whatever shift.

J

It is an hour and a half extra that you didn't get. You will not get to spend with the grandchildren.

J

Yes. the stores that brought the action, I believe.

J

It was longos, correct? yes.. Are they open now that we looked into it and this thanksgiving that.

D

Just past, they were not open., they were not open.

J

How important is it how many of your union members, in your local, are people that have.

J

Kids and single moms? roughly.

D

I do belong to local 414.. It would be the same figures that brother.

D

Curry gave earlier., I believe it was 4000.

D

It would affect roughly 50% so another 2000., so we will have thousands of kids not having.

J

Their parents, home for christmas and thanksgiving because one of my colleagues said it was not.

J

A christian holiday and may not be important. the cinco weekend and victoria weekend,. You.

J

Would not spend those day with grandkids and kids?.

J

C

Thank you. councillor burnside.

C

Thank you., you agree for better or worse, the traditional.

I

Work week has changed over time for many people, if not all.

I

I would agree, it is for worse., don't get me wrong.

I

But would you with, would you say we heard a lawyer from the thorn cliff area that I.

I

Represent and just for your edification, thorn cliff is a many newer, canadians, different.

I

Religion, many people are have their own small businesses or a lot of them drive taxi cabs,.

I

Et cetera, et cetera., so there is a demand for iqbal foods to be.

I

Open on these holidays, given that some of these holidays, if not all.,.

I

To councillor karygiannis' point,, some of them are religious, holidays.

I

What would you say to that community specifically, that wants iqbal foods to be open and to be.

I

Able to to go there, shop there?, I would say you have 356 days a year. You.

D

Can go and get your groceries and with you need, and you have things available to you.

D

And to leave the nine stat days alone. if they're talking about religious holidays.

D

And whatever- and they don't celebrate them, they should be allowed to open.

D

No. it has always been that way..

D

If we want, maybe we should discuss adding more haul.

I

We shall not make accommodation for others who may have a different scheduled and okay.

I

That is fine.. We can mad more holidays.

D

Gladly take more stat days, you would say, add more stat days, but then.

I

Allow them to work?, because adding more stat days just makes it.

I

More of a problem for them. no.

D

What I'm saying we have our nine stat days. leave our nine stat days.

D

There are ask different communities and religious belief that celebrate different holidays than.

D

We as canadians do, we can enjoy our christmas and so can they.

D

Say you add an extra day for christmas.? They can be open for christmas, but not.

I

They're still going to celebrate our christmas because they do now.

I

I'm not following. that is fine.

I

I'll move on.. What do you say to back to the ttc driver.

I

The cab driver,, the person that works at tim, hortons.

I

You know,, the list goes on of people that actually work on the it is a restaurant worker.

I

What do you say to all those people who don't necessarily have and that stat day.

I

They actually work like debbie,. I don't want to be in that situation.

D

I would say that maybe we should have some town hall meetings and talk about not allowing.

D

Them to work on it as well.. I don't think that anybody should be working.

D

On the holidays, whether you work in a restaurant or a gas station,, I don't believe that anybody.

D

Should. but society today and with the language that is in 510, it is prepared meals.. That is what we're discussing is prepared.

D

Meals., if you sale a prepared meal, what is the definition.

D

Of a prepared meal?, if you're going to have the fresh to go section.

D

And you want it sectioned off, okay.: maybe we can have to live with that.

D

But our people going to work it or not. That is not up to me., that is up to management and to the volunteers.. I'm saying everything should be closed on.

D

The holidays, that is the real world, and that is not going.

D

To happen. just trying to understand your position.

I

Thank you. you're welcome.

C

Thank you, councillor burnside. and I wasn't in the chair and missed a point.

C

Councillor fletcher, please.. I have one question I should have asked it.

L

Earlier., I'm going ask everybody.

L

the statutory holidays,. Those aren't given by your employer.

L

They're, not statutory holidays of the city of toronto.

L

They're, not statutory holidays governed by a church.

L

They're statutory holidays governed by the laws of the province of ontario.

L

Would you agree with that in interpretation? yes., so it is not up to you or me or anybody else to add or subtract.

L

It is the province of ontario and if they wish to take away some that are statutory.

L

Or add new statutory holidays., then they have that ability.

L

So really, what we're looking at is whether or not the city of toronto, the councillors.

L

At the city of toronto will support people who work in large, nonessential industries.

L

So you would agree that the ttc has to keep running?.

L

Yes. people have to keep ambulances have to keep.

L

Running. police. There are certain services that are.

L

Required on a stat, holiday., right?.

R

Actually, I had a conversation. One of my best friends is a 911 dispatch for berry police.

D

Department., I was talking to her about the prepared meals and opening stores in that 365 days a year, and she look at me and she said well. I have.

D

To work it. and I looked at her and I smiled and I said.

D

And you were employed since you were 18 years old as a 911 dispatcher.

D

Your job is life and death.. You make 40 something dollars an hour.

D

If you work the holidays, you get the double time.

D

You're talking about precarious grocery store workers at minimum wage.

D

She looked at me and said: oh,. I never thought of that.].

D

And I said yes.

L

So certain jobs are required. exactly.

L

But shopping at the bay might not be required. yes.

L

Getting your groceries 365 days a year unless you're poorly planned at shopping and need.

L

To do it every day you can make do. and but those are provincial holidays.

L

We're not making them up here., we just have to figure out what we're going to do and how we're going to apply it.. You would agree that I guess it is since I.

L

Met you, we've turned down the ability of all stores to open in the city of toronto.

L

City council has said no., not every store can open over three times.

L

Now and today, but we've got this little leftover.

L

Problem of prepared foods. prepared mealed meals.

L

councillor fletcher: in dealing with it. We should restrict it as much as possible.

L

We're not opening a pandora box, so every big store can open.

L

Is that what I'm hearing you say?? Thank you so much thank you, councillor fletcher. any other questions?.

C

Thank you for your presentation.. We move to the next debutante.

C

Adrienne gorgocopolis. from mary.

C

Good morning., good morning.

C

Good to have you here., so we have double debutation.

C

Fantastic., please go ahead.

C

Good morning., my name is adrienne and as a worker, at a store.

R

I'm a proud worker member with local 1006a. paul,, our representative, from my local union.

R

Is here with me today. as an activist,, I'm dedicated for fighting.

R

For justice and fairness for my fellow co workers, as well as working people across ontario,.

R

And the city. today I stand before you in opposition of.

R

The proposed application to expand the prepared meals exemption beyond restaurants within.

R

The holiday shopping by law., currently out of 365 days per year, I'm entitled.

R

To nine statutory holidays., that is certainly not a lot.

R

And frankly, I find it offensive that I have to stand before you and an effort to ensure.

R

That I continue to enjoy those nine days. believe it or not. I am my co. Workers have.

R

A life outside of work and have family obligations and responsibilities.

R

For most of these nine days marked special occasions where families have opportunities.

R

To relax and enjoy time with one another to unwind from their hectic work, weeks.

R

This proposal clearly benefits business and employers and the retail food industry.

R

It allows them to continue to increase their profits at the expense of those of us who.

R

Will be forced to work on these days., it is certainly does not take into consideration.

R

The added stress that workers will experience when they are forced to work.

R

It is not likely that we will see an increase in our wages.

R

We certainly won't be seeing increase in our hours and there will just be spread out over.

R

365 days, instead of 356. again, we're talking about just nine days.

R

Is it really too much for us to ask that workers continue to enjoy what we currently have when.

R

There is no clear or urgent reason to take them way from us?.

R

How does this in any way, shape or form benefit the average worker?.

R

Is it really necessary for retailers to be open on the extra nine days?.

R

Only because they sell food or have a small section of prepared meals available, especially.

R

When it is at the expense of their employees., I urge you to seriously consider the communities.

R

And workers on the floor and not the increased profits for businesses.

R

We are talking about just nine days.. Surely that is not too much to ask for and.

R

I thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Thank you.

C

Questions? members of council?.

C

Councillor karygiannis, go ahead, good morning, and thank you for coming.

J

I want to thank the moral support to my left,, your right.

J

I didn't catch if there was any children that you might have?.

J

No, I do not have any children. okay..

J

How important was it for you to spend christmas, thanksgiving,, labor, day, victoria, day,, cinco.

J

Day with your parents, when you were growing up?.

J

Did you have an opportunity to sit around the christmas table and be with them thanksgiving?.

J

And our extended family as well that have small children.

R

Councillor karygiannis:, I realize you're of the greek orthodox faith.

J

My question to you is: if you want to take those days off as holidays,, do you book them.

J

Through your through your employer and how accommodating they are?.

J

I would have to book them off., the accommodation would be, I guess if it was.

R

A busier day of the year and what not. then I may not get them.

J

How accommodating have they been through the chair?.

R

I would say, probably about 50/50. 50/50.

J

So if we were to force you to work those extra nine days- and you say I want to take my religious.

J

Holidays,, you will get 50/50. correct?.

P

Yeah., so it is important to you then, as you go forward.

J

Probably family, children coming along, that you get to spend those day with your family.

J

Absolutely. and also be important to you to be able to get those 50/50 on the other holidays? yeah.

J

You might not get., I heard from my colleagues talking about police.

J

Officers and other religious- and here you are in another religion and you don't get.

J

Them., so if we were allowing the employers to okay.

J

Open it up the chances of you getting not only the other religious holidays will be.

J

Probably zero., thank you very much..

J

Appreciate it. thank you.

C

Any other questions? if not, thank you for your presentation.

C

Thank you, susan mcmary,.

C

Good morning., good morning.

C

Apologies for the frog in my throat. if it starts riveting I'll, take a drink of.

R

Water., I'm assistant at the.

R

I am the senior organizer for the toronto region. Council.-.

H

Thank you., please go ahead.

R

We represent members in the toronto area and are here today to talk about unionized and.

R

Non unionized workers facing the possibility of being forced to work on public holidays.

R

Workers have struggled for years to require some control over their work. Hours.

R

Including paid public holidays., some of you may remember bob crachit working.

R

For ebenezer scrooge., all he wanted was a day off with pay to spend.

R

With family at christmas., scrounge responded,, it is like picking a man's.

R

Pocket every 25th day of december., he saw it as theft.

R

Few would share that belief today, and yet we find ourselves here today, because the city.

R

Of toronto appears to be contemplating expanding the types of businesses that can stay open.

R

On public holidays loading to the obvious conclusion that people will be needing to.

R

Work for holiday., according to the report that we read, most.

R

Members of the public said there was no need to expand holiday shopping.

R

They describe the negative impacts of doing so experience of working people, the unions and others were unanimous that there should be.

R

No expansion. respecting the need for a small handful of.

R

Common days of rest for workers each year, most workers.

R

The business communities input was mixed. with some saying, don't expand at all.

R

And others calling for repeal of the entire by law, so shopping could be wide open everywhere.

R

All the time we were asked during consultation about the.

R

Impact of expanding holiday shopping. workers provided lots of input about the impact.

R

Of doing so., business did not.

R

Simply saying that they should be the last word on the subject.

R

So you've heard this morning all the reasons for why not.

R

Loss of a common day of rest. many vulnerable workers would likely face.

R

Re incrimination, if they say no to their boss. workers, may not actually receive any premium.

R

For working on a public holiday, but simply be given another day off instead, but not at.

R

A time when their family, also off. adequate child care with no formal child care.

R

Being available on public holiday and going to work when the ttc is on holiday, service.

R

With later subway openings, reduced service on some streetcar and crossroads and no service.

R

At all, on other roads., the reasons for considering expansion are.

R

Unclear. there has been a vague court decision.

R

As we heard, longos kept its two stores that were the subject of the court case closed.

R

On thanksgiving., I don't think there is anybody that can tell.

R

Us business must remain open. nine days more a year in order to survive.

R

I don't think that we hear any clamor from torontonians to shop on public holidays and.

R

I have not heard anyone here saying they want to shop on public holidays.

R

I remind you of words of torontonians working along danforth on a public holiday.

R

My colleagues spoke about in april,. This guy said sure. I would like to see stores open.

R

As long as I'm not the one working there., we invite you to review the good jobs for.

R

All declaration to see the elements that make up a good job.

R

Nowhere in that declaration does it say, give people the opportunity to work on public holidays.

R

Nobody wants to work 365 day ace year and there are other policy mechanisms available.

R

To people for raising people's wages. other than working one more day, a year.

R

The toronto york region, labour council, is opposed to any expansion of holiday shopping.

R

And does not believe it is necessary response to the small problem presented by the longo's.

R

Court case. thank you.

R

thank you. questions?.

C

Go ahead. thank you,. Mr. chair.

O

You represented labor representatives over 2000 workers.

O

Where do workers who are unionized in retail sector and grocery stores and fair in terms.

O

Of challenges and workplaces?, certainly the research that we've seen and.

R

As our brothers and sisters have talked about, today, grocery store workers are among the.

R

Precarious workers with part time,, temporary hours.

R

The challenges of scheduling, relatively low wages.

O

Even in unionized setting?, even in unionized settings.

O

Labor party that talks about workers' rights and advocates for it,. How does the non unionized.

O

Workers fair in this situation, in retail and commercial?.

R

Our assumption would be that they are the same or worse, off.

O

Okay. now I'm sure there is research on that.]. I just don't have it handy.

O

Now,, vulnerable workers and you talk about vulnerable workers in situations like this.

O

Who are they and what kind of demographics do you notice from your work?.

R

Again, we heard this morning a lot of women. people in lower wage jobs tend to be from.

R

Racialized communities.- and I I think that gives a pretty good example.

R

Of who those workers are. okay.

O

So racialized young workers,, a woman,. Would you from your experience, say that accessing.

O

Justice, if they were mistreated or intimidated or if they were harassed or if they were told.

O

That, you know,. If you didn't do this, your schedule would be cut.

O

how much access to do they have to legal support in toronto?.

R

From the unionized sector we heard today often there are no no nothing in the collective.

R

Agreement that would allow them to refuse that work.

R

in the non union sector, we've we've through the changing workplace review, which looked.

R

At precarious work, it has called for a big expansion of enforcement at the provincial.

R

Level because so many precarious workers do not have their basic rights under the employment.

R

Standard rights act met and that would include grocery store, workers.

O

If you were to look at businesses and have you do you think any businesses or any workers.

O

In any of these sectors feel that without these nine days, their business needs to be.

O

Closed, they would lose, they would be in a situation that they have to close down their.

R

Stores? we haven't polled business on that., but certainly, as I said in reviewing the consultation report, I didn't hear anything that said the.

R

Businesses thought that their business would be at risk if they couldn't stay open or did.

R

I hear the businesses this morning.. What is the hourly wage for workers who are.

O

In this situation? unionized.

O

Minimum wage., the new minimum wage, is $11.60 an hour.

R

Sound as though that is the wage. okay.

R

It is close to that. so economically, do you see an argue for workers.

O

Wanting to work that extra day to get the money or is it going to cost them more to.

O

Find the child care, find the transportation, find a place to be able to do that.

R

Yes., certainly people are going to incur costs.

R

For working on those days.- and there may be some collective agreements.

R

That provide some premium for working on certain days.

R

You would have to ask the our union, brothers and sisters.

R

But as I alluded to in the employment standards, act, workers and their employers, if they agree.

R

Instead of going premium, pay on a public holiday will agree, the worker will get another day.

R

Off. subject I put in quotation marks.

R

Agreement between the worker and their employer because again, if the employer wants to force.

R

Them to accept that,, that would be, that would likely be the case.

R

So not only is there no premium pay through. There may be additional costs that they're.

R

Incurring., thank you.

C

Thank you, members and councillor fletcher,. Please go.

L

Ahead. thank you. in the staff report,. The recommendation is to seek direction from council about what.

L

To do about prepared foods., would you agree with that?.

L

Yes., that's the recommendation. then later on, there is a couple of options. one. Basically, that would severely restrict.

L

One that would interpret prepared foods. That said, that's really all you're going to be.

L

Able to sell. and the other would say well if you're selling.

L

Prepared food, you might as well sell all food just to put it simply.

L

You would agree that those are the two choices that are that our staff,, our legal staff,.

L

Our mls staff have put before this committee and eventually council.,.

L

Yes, I would., do you see it any other way to assure at that?.

L

No. we have this issue around prepared foods because of these court cases. yes..

L

Somehow we have to grapple how, as a city we're going to interpret prepared foods on the nine.

L

Statutory holidays that are provincial holidays and the province has said everybody should.

L

Have these days off, except da da da and now somehow we have prepared foods added in there.

L

Of those two options,, which one are you suggesting that we consider for after you've heard all.

L

Of these people come today and talk about how difficult it is,, how much they like to.

L

Spend time with their family on these nine days.

L

How important these nine days are to them, how they would have a hard time getting to.

L

Work,, how they don't know what they would do with their kids an just again, that is the.

L

One time they know they have to spend quality time.

L

So what should? What is your advice to us in handling the prepared foods issue, or should.

L

We simply ignore it or how should we handle it?.

R

So while it's a little bit of a sophie's choice to pick between the two,, both of them attempt.

R

To provide even option, one seems to provide a slight expansion.

R

Labour council would certainly prefer option one over option. Two.

R

If it is possibles to let's just because we have to now, the courts have said within holiday,.

L

Shopping city of toronto, you have to provide for prepared foods to be sold on the nine.

L

Stat holidays., what about if we had a by law? That said, that's.

L

All you can sell., you can't sell if somebody said the flowers.

L

And you can't sell to this and you can't sell to that.

R

Yeah. and, in fact,, I'm not a lawyer.

R

I'm an economist. whatever that says.

R

One of the issues that I can see is that it it appear that there is the belief that the.

R

510 duplicates the retail business holiday's act.

R

We know the retail business holiday's act doesn't apply., but the attempt in preparing 510 was to duplicate. the judge on the appeal in the longo's case.

R

Said there was ambiguity around premises.. Let me ambiguity.

R

Premises, selling goods or services in the form of or in connection with prepared, meals.

R

In the staff report, I see quotation marks around selling goods or services and I don't.

R

See the quotation marks around premises., so there is something a little different in.

R

The by law, because it allows premises. yes.

R

on prepared meals.. I guess I'm not asking you to be a lawyer.

L

Here. thank you., I'm saying this committee,. This council has two options in front of it.

L

One is to interpret prepared foods very narrowly say you can sell the rotisserie chicken, but.

L

You can't sell the flowers.. The other option is to say you can sell the.

L

Rotisserie, chicken and by the way since you're doing that, sell the flowers, too.

L

So what is your advice to this committee and to city council?.

L

To restrict it to the sale of prepared, meals. okay.

R

Thank you. thank you.

C

Any other questions? thank you.

J

You said you're an economist and I'm going to take you up on exploring your numbers.

J

If a person wants to go and shop on christmas day and they're, not able to, what loss of.

J

Business, do you think the stores will have?, I mean they can always go back and shop. Another.

J

Day., so I'm not a retail analyst by any stretch.

R

Of the imagination, but the amount of income that people have is fixed.

R

Adding more days of shopping would give the appearance of simply spreading those people.

R

Spending over a larger number of days., so whether you go shop on christmas day or.

J

You wait another day and you go you know, on the 20th,. It is still going to be the same.

J

It is not going to change anything. yeah.

J

Your buying power is still your buying power. exactly.

J

So it will cost the store more to open versus any savings that they would incur.

J

I understand that we should open the food section because people might want to get food.

J

But the rest of the store to occupant, it will cost them more and pay the employees.

J

Time and a half or sometimes double time., there is no. There is no savings that no more.

J

Income, they have. no cost benefit..

J

Am I incorrect in that? who knows what the reasons are for which longos.

R

Has decided not to open the two stores on public holidays.

R

Perhaps it is that., would you be surprised if I tell you longos.

J

Did not open up because they did the number crunching and they figured out. They were going.

J

To lose money here?. That wouldn't surprise me.

J

What would the morale impact be on mothers, family, if they don't get to spend it on the.

J

Religious holidays and other holidays with them?.

R

I think we've heard that so eloquently described this morning.

J

Would you be surprised if I told you somebody that brought this idea up in this council.

J

Unfortunately, I can't mention the gentleman is here or not, because I would be bringing.

J

Rules myself and my colleague here have brought emotion. We allow other denominations to have.

J

One or two days and that person voted against it.

J

You wouldn't be surprised I'll leave it at that.

J

Thank you very much.. I appreciate it.

R

Thank you. thank you.

C

Any other questions? I do have a question actually for you in terms.

C

Of the options and this follow up, too. councillor fletcher's questions and option.

C

No. 1, which the labour council it seems like would prefer.

C

That would be to prepare meals and with some restrictions on them. Grocery stores.

C

Now, my interpretation or recommendation on no. 2 is to have foods and restrictive aspects.

C

To the to the one that causes it, and my question is in terms of the definition itself, because.

C

I think the confusion, one of the reasons why the city ended up in court, because the.

C

Nature of the definition was not clear enough if emotional was to be moved, along those.

C

Lines or in terms of clarity, it could apply to either option,. Would you agree to it and.

C

Think there is probably a need for further clarification,. I don't know if you had a chance.

C

To magnify the aspect of the option,, either option,, one or two.

C

Do you have any feedback on that perhaps?? It was a long question.

R

So I wasn't, you have two options., which kind of definition you were asking about. I'm sorry.

R

Just to seek clarification, are you asking whether to restrict the definition of prepared.

H

Foods to include other criteria that would necessity the opening of grocery stores or.

H

Partial pieces of grocery stores, or are you saying that the prepared foods I think the.

H

Court case, the ambiguity around the course case and reason we went down this as you so.

H

Well said, prepared foods has not been defined and because of that, that unclarity, that.

H

We're in the situation right now., so what we're saying and our position has.

H

Always been that the clarity needs to come in order to fall in line with the principle.

H

Of the by law, which is to ensure that premises like restaurants were who are selling prepared.

H

Foods whose main purpose of business is to the sale of prepared foods be the definition.

H

Be restricted to ensure that those facilities remain open and that which is what the original.

H

Principle of this by law was intended to create versus expanding to it, something that would.

H

Include any other premises of those meanings. that would be most likely. The intent of that.

C

Motion, perhaps is to in terms of the definition itself.

C

That an establishment whose business is primarily selling food to the public. But that is not.

C

Include a retail mall with a food court for example.

C

So that would bring it further clarity to either option that may apply to one or two.

C

So my question to you: is,: do you think that any if you're clarification for another option.

C

To maybe bring the kind of definition forward? that would really depend on what the definition.

H

Ends up looking like at the end. okay.

C

Thank you. any other questions? if not, thanks so much for your presentation.. Thank you thank you.. Next debutante.

C

Good morning., good morning.

E

Thank you for allowing me to speak.. I am with uni 4104.

E

I'm a part time cashier at a metro, grocery store.

E

Our store is open, 24 hours, a day, seven days, a week.

E

We used to have before I started as a retail worker. I worked at an office monday to friday.

E

Sunday was family day.. We would have what my grandson called bacon.

E

And egg day, every sunday morning we would have breakfast.

E

Now that I work in retail,, there is no more bacon and egg day.

E

With the exception of the stat holiday., we're talking about prepared, foods.

E

Our store sales prepared, foods. and our prepared foods the amount that we.

E

Sell, I don't think, is enough to keep us open on a stat holiday.

E

Our store has 150 employees. and, I would say, 13% of it are full time.

E

The rest are part time., and it is always the part time that are asked.

E

To work., not the full time we are fit, that is because we're paid minimum wage.

E

At $11.60 an hour., the store can make the a bit of money, but.

E

With the amount of prepared foods that we have,, I don't see how they can.

E

We don't have someone serving the people and they're not sitting down to eat.

E

They're just buying it and going.. I don't see how that classifies as prepared.

E

Foods and for example, our family day on february.

E

Gets me upset. pass the kleenex.

E

We get together., we rent a big room and have family day dinner and family time., because we don't have enough time.

E

We don't have sundays. our canada day,, that is canada, today.

E

You want us to be open on canada, today?, that is another family day.

E

We have fireworks., we have a big bbq., we dress in red and white. you know, you're, taking away all these days.

E

If we have to open for our little bit of prepared food.

E

How many rotisserie chickens can we make in a day?

E

how many are going to be sold?? Who is going to come in and buy them?.

E

You know,, this is our fresh to go.. You get a pizza.

E

Usually, the pizza shops sale better pizza than what we do.

E

I just can't see opening for prepared foods on a stat holiday.

E

I don't think it is going to work, as I say, we're all part time. Workers.

E

Working, you know, precarious shifts. a part time worker coming in on a stat holiday.

E

As a front end worker, we get four or five hour shifts.

E

at $11.60, an hour.. You want me to come in on a stat holiday.

E

I have to take the transit, that is what $3.75 a day and $3 a trip.

E

That is $6.. I have a four hour shift.

E

I'm going to earn peanuts. Then I have to find day care. If I have children.

E

I'm not going to make any money.. It is going to cost me to go to work because.

E

When we get a four or five hour shift. and if you are looking for prepared foods.

E

Only, then you have to have you have got the people working in the fresh to go.

E

Then you have to have the clerks to clean up after everything.

E

Then you have to have cashiers., so it is not just the food to go that is going.

E

To be impacted., it is going to be other parts of the store.

E

Then you have to have someone come in and close the store and check it.

E

And I don't think that they're going to earn enough, I don't think there is enough sales..

E

I don't think it is warranted.. I think you're really taking way the family.

E

By that little bit of prepared, foods., also you're, going to take away business from.

E

Restaurants, that want to be open.. Thank you very much.

E

Thank you. any questions?.

C

Thank you very much for your passionate speaking.. Thank you.

C

Good morning. good to have you here.

E

Good morning., I would like to bring everybody back to 1975.

E

For a moment., I worked for dominion at that time. Part time.

E

I now work for metro. and I'm part time now.

E

I would like to I guess kind of clarify a few things.

E

On the holidays,, most people get paid on that day and I honestly think that pay is more.

E

Than enough for even the few that might want the time and a half or double time.

E

People enjoy those days.. The prepared food is what we are talking. About.

E

Recommendation no. 1 and no. 2. In all honesty, I would vote for neither.

E

I would go with changing 510 to say, restaurants, only being prepared foods that are 90% of.

E

Your business., I don't think grocery stores- need to be open.

E

I don't know who is going to go there, even even with the religious differences, et cetera.,.

E

And the company in thorn cliff, I live in that area.

E

They choose to close on their own holidays and my reasoning and my questions are,. We.

E

Prepare for our holidays., we buy pre, we don't go on the day. Of.

E

Most of us don't even want to shop on boxing day, which we lost.

E

Sundays in 1975, I worked at o'connor in the dominion store.

E

We were open, monday,, tuesday, wednesday 9:00 to 6:00.

E

thursday and friday 9:00 to 9:00 and saturday 9:00 to 6:00.

E

We all got our shopping done then, and got everything done we needed to even before our.

E

Holidays. now we have lost sunday.

E

Used to get a premium. if you're grandfathered you get that premium.

E

Anybody hired after 2008, may, fourth of 2008 does not get that premium.

E

We don't want to make it part of our work week.. We don't want to make these holidays part of our work week..

E

Thank you. So much thank you.

C

Any questions member? if not, members of the committee, councillor.

C

Karygiannis, please go ahead.. Thank you very much for coming. Today.

J

Did I catch right that people that were hired after 2008 do not get the premium time and.

J

A half or times two? on sundays.

J

For working on the staff holiday?, everybody gets paid.

E

We don't have a premium for sundays because we're not I mean sorry for holiday, because.

E

We're not open. the premium I was talking about was sunday.

E

It used to be $1.60. and after our collective agreement now states,.

E

You will be available two shifts and saturday and some sundays and you don't get the premium.

E

So I can see if something like that to happen.

E

It will., I believe it will.. Thank you for the clarification. thank you, chair.

J

Thank you. councillor,. Please go ahead.

I

Thank you. that question the question of clarification.

I

On the statutory or the holidays,, is there anything in the contract?.

I

You're talking sundays, which is a whole difficult issue with all due respect..

I

There is nothing one way or the other.. It is not spoken to.

E

The only way is what you will get. like what you will get you get paid for, that.

E

Day but not civic holiday, because it is not, it is not stat.

I

The august 1. it speaks to that.

I

but for instance, if you were to work christmas, if they were open, does it speak to time and.

I

A half or anything like that? well,, it says on holidays, yes time and a half.

E

Thank you, may I say one more thing?.

E

I don't think that will last long like once, you start working a stat holiday,.

E

That time and a half will go like the $1.60.. Would you agree that, ultimately, that is between.

I

The union and the employer,- not really no but labor laws- are there, too, to protect.

E

Us., the nuts and bolts of premium pay is between.

I

The union. fair enough thank you, councillor burnside. any other questions?.

C

Thank you for your representation. with that. I believe that we ended up the list.

C

Of speakers. now we'll go to questions to staff.

C

Councillor fletcher,, please go ahead. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions.

L

And I missed what you said at the beginning, mr. chair.

L

Just go over there. that there are nine statutory holidays in.

L

The province of ontario., that is correct.

L

In the city of toronto, our stat holidays are governed under the city of toronto, act.

F

That's correct.. We have always considered prepared foods to.

L

Be restaurants, that is how we have interrupted that forever in the city of toronto. For those.

L

Nine days. yes.

F

Traditionally, we looked at the definition of prepared meals as restaurants.

F

Yes., that is how we have interpreted.

L

But now someone took the city to court and said,, we think prepared. Meals are more than.

L

Restaurants, because they're sold in longos and other places and the justice of the peace.

L

Agreed with longos. that's correct.

L

And then we took that decision by the justice of the peace.

L

The same person that deals with your traffic tickets are now dealing with whether you work.

L

Nine days a year. took that that decision and we appealed that.

L

To which court was it ontario divisional court?, I'm going to deferred defer that to legal.

F

Cory. you talk to this?, which court do we appeal longos to?.

L

The ontario justice., they upheld the justice of the peace.

S

That is correct., and do you think I'm not going to ask you.

L

If you think justice of the peace are well trained on holiday shopping and by laws, because.

L

I think the answer is no., but they upheld that.

L

Now we find ourselves in a situation where we have a. We have prepared foods in our by.

L

Law and in the city of toronto act, and we have to figure out what we're going to do.

L

With that., because the court has told us, it means that.

L

You can stay open if you have prepared foods that is correct.

S

To be very technical, it is prepared meals in the by law.

L

Prepared meals. does it say that in all of our documents prepared.

L

Meals?, I believe the reports have used prepared, meals.

S

Throughout. so prepared meals.

L

So it has to be something that is a meal. again prepared, meals, which is not a defined.

S

Term. but if you had to say what a meal was, was.

L

It a candy bar?, so I'm not sure if you're asking for my legal.

S

Interpretation., if you're asking for legal interpretation.

S

What I can say is publicly: it is undefined term that could be interpreted in many ways.

L

Is it flowers? you put a couple of things in front of us.

L

It is permissive.. I would agree that the two options presented.

S

In the report from the executive director, one is more permissive and one is less permissive.

S

One is more, and one is less, but if we decided not to do anything and say we think it is.

L

Only restaurants, do we have that ability here, today?.

S

My submission is: no, you don't, based on the decisions that have been handed down by the.

S

R

Thank you., you're next.

O

Just a clarification on this., so there are a number of stores that have,.

O

You know, everything else in the store, but on the front you have this heated that has.

O

Buns or something like that., so those places would now if we go ahead and.

O

Pass this, would be allowed to open, based on the concept that are heated in there.

O

Could be prepared meal., it is difficult to define, prepared, meals.

F

That is what we're trying to seek direction from committee here today, how permissive or.

F

Restrictive, do we want tod to be. we're looking for your direction on that to.

F

Clarify when you come in for rotisserie, chicken or pizza or sushi, that is traditionally what.

F

We're thinking of as a prepared meal., the challenge is. Some of the wording is also.

F

The selling of provisions after goods in form or connection of prepared meals, that is also.

O

A challenge. what.

F

This will allow for is grocery stores, larger or small.

F

To decide if they want to open or not. and then again what based on what the restrictions.

F

Are any impact on the workers side of this as.

O

A city if this was to happen. what number this would be impact, what we're.

O

Meaning to do and the expectation for this, and all this across the city.

O

I can speak to the impact to workers., based on information that I have from my colleagues.

F

And city planning., this is 35. We have egg hundred 41 pharmacies.

F

In the city that impacts we hear it is.

O

So, roughly third to 40%. I don't have the exact number, because it is.

F

Difficult to say what would be required. based on this, it would require approximately.

F

40% of the workers to be working on these days.

O

Have there been further impact of that? So what I'm asking is now we have the number.

O

Of the workers, but in terms of city office and transportation and city first day, care.

O

Services and other thing as well has there been any kind of analysis deeper into how.

O

This would impact the other services that we provide on those days?.

F

So in our consultations we heard that transportation would be an impact.

F

Difficult to get there., we also heard from child care the child care.

F

Would be difficult, child care is already a difficult situation.

F

In toronto to have number of spaces, and it would be aspirated by not them being available.

F

On the statutory holidays, so it would be an impact from a transit perspective.

F

And child care perspective. any other areas of impact other than those.

O

Two categories? something those are the two main ones, councillor.

F

N

Thank you. counsellor di giorgio,, you're next.

N

I thought I heard at the beginning of the staff's presentation that the intent of the.

N

Recommendations, whether it is one or two., to allow community council to have some input.

N

On possible definition or expanded definition of prepared meals.

N

I thought I heard community council, or is it directly to council?.

F

Directly to council.- to be clear,, our recommendation is loosely.

F

Worded, to allow you to make a decision on how permissive or restrictive you want to.

F

Be., so that is- and we've articulated this through.

F

The questioning., so the recommendation allows you to pick option.

F

One or two or modifications thereof and put those on to council.-.

N

Understand for prepared foods, it is nebulous.

N

Do we require additional input at a community council level from the public as to how they.

N

Feel about the a particular definition. no.

N

we don't require that.. I would not recommend that.

N

Okay. with essential services, those people involved.

N

Whether it be police, firemen or what have you, do they get time and a half working on.

N

Holidays?, I'm not certain of that, but it would be in.

F

Their collective agreements and they have to follow those.

N

I expect the collective agreement does provide that..

N

The reason I ask the question is because one of the debutantes said if, in fact, we allow,.

N

You know, businesses or food stores, or what have you to be open that they for in their.

N

View the whole notion of one and a half times pay on holidays would disappear.

N

And I guess my question is,: if that is the case, and someone is involved in a essential.

N

Services, why would we even entertain one and a half times when the essential services are.

N

Well, paid?, so again, our division has no involvement in.

F

The payment arrangements or the labor relations piece and the employment standards act is.

F

Really, what governs that. okay,? Thank you.

N

Councillor di giorgio,, councillor karygiannis,, you are next.

Q

Thank you, mr. chair., I think, to the appropriate staff they may.

Q

Be more of a legal basis.? Looking at the report, we have recommendation.

Q

One and two that says a little permissive or a lot but they're both permissive.

Q

And I thought reading the report and maybe you could help me and the community members.

Q

Understand that the justice of the peace interpreted, the meaning of the exemption, et cetera, et.

Q

Cetera., isn't it the city of toronto that provides that exemption or provides that exemption or the provincial government that defines.

Q

The exemption? thank you.

S

That is a great question.. The city of toronto act, the province of ontario.

S

Is the one that limits the city's authority to be able to prevent stores, selling prepared.

S

Meals from closing., it is a provincial legislation.

Q

Could you say that again I didn't catch it all.

S

So in the short answer, it is provincial legislation that governs how the city can regulate. Closing.

S

Hours and prevents the city from regulating closing hours for sellers of prepared meals.

Q

So, although we're given the city of toronto act, there was a restrictions or confinement.

Q

Of what we can and can't do and we were challenged and lost.

Q

We cannot change our by law to make it more restrictive.

S

The city's by law replicated that same limitation of using the wording prepared, meals.

S

In that exemption and limitation in the city of toronto act and the justice, the prepared.

S

Needs exemption was broader than the way staff had operationalized that as needing to limit.

S

Restaurant advisers. through mr. chair, if longos was considered.

Q

Exempt because of provincial legislation,, what would stop a cosec or walmart, because.

Q

They're referred to in the report: if we change thing, we will not allow walmart, for example,.

Q

To open. my question to you would be well, why not?.

Q

Wouldn't they have a legal argument as well?, so I'll be careful about how I answer this.

S

In public., perhaps if there is an appetite we could discuss.

S

This more in camera., certainly given the broad nature of the wording.

S

In the city of toronto act limitation,, there are opportunities for other parties to attempt.

S

To interpret different meanings to the wording, so should we, as a committee and council, be.

Q

Defining that word more or is it just the provincial matter?.

Q

That exemption more?, given that the wording is broad and the source.

S

Of it comes from the city of toronto act,, there are concerns if the city were to attempt.

S

To define it in a way that could be inconsistent with that.

Q

Then it comes back to the province because the province put it in the city of toronto.

Q

Act?, that's correct.

Q

Thank you, next.. Thank you for all the work you have done and.

J

It must have been a difficult one.. My question is,. This is only for prepared.

J

Food., so if you go to a loblaws and you want to.

J

Buy a rotisserie chicken, it would be available., wouldn't loblaws say this is also prepared.

J

Food that we can go like a sandwich that was prepared the day before, but it is on a different.

J

F

That is the challenge, we're facing and defining prepared meals and what is what is prepared.

F

And is what not., and that is why we're looking for direction to clarify that. and because it is really important that we give clear rules to the industry that is operating. This clear rules to the employees and clear.

F

Rules to the public of what is available and then clear rules for us to do associated enforcement.

J

Thank you thank you.

C

Speaker, councillor nunziata you're next. thank you.

E

D

I'll tell you once again,: please go ahead. yeah.

E

What was that, councillor fletcher?, madame speaker, nunziata,, you have the floor.

C

Please go ahead. What if we decided not to do anything?.

F

I'll defer that to cory in legal., certainly that is the state of affairs that.

S

We have today., the court decision has created significant.

S

Uncertainty in to how the by law can be enforced and what businesses are able to be opened.

S

If the by law were not changed, that uncertainty would continue.

S

I think it would continue to undermine the city's ability to affectively enforce the.

S

Provisions so then, to enforcement,: how are we, how are.

E

We going to implement the enforcement?, the enforcement is a challenge, and that is.

F

Why we look at clarity around us.? We need to remove the ambiguity that is associated.

F

With prepared meals- and that is what we're hoping from direction from committee and council.

F

To provide that clarity, so we can do associated enforcement.

E

Some of the challenges could be, and some of the other questions that were asked prepared.

E

Meals could be frozen, foods. right?.

F

Again, that is the challenge.. That is what we're looking to do.

F

Traditionally, what people think of is the rotisserie chicken, pizza and sushi..

F

It is the others that are concerning, and there is also opportunities for limiting the space.

E

I know. so this is very, very confusing.

E

Now, as councillor fletcher mentioned to a number of the debutantes is to enclose like.

E

Just for example, shoppers, drug mart., one side, they have the prepared foods and.

E

Then pharmacy is on the other.. What they do is they they close off the aisles.

E

That is what some of the shoppers at drug mart does.

E

So how is that going to be enforced?? How would we enforce that?.

F

Again, it is challenging., I know it, but this is.

F

Businesses keep emerging and different types and in my local shoppers, drug mart the food.

F

Items are on the second floor.. It is not as easy as the traditional grocery.

F

Store you come in prepared, meals are up at the front where you could close that up.

E

It would be up to so every, for example,, say shoppers, drug mart,, every shoppers, drug mart,.

E

Wherever they are,, they would have to have some sort of policy in place where the cashiers,.

E

The cashiers would only accept the prepared foods at the cashier.

E

If they have anything else, they would have to refuse..

E

I mean that is the only way it is going to work..

E

Unless you have somebody standing there watching everybody what they have.

E

It is ridiculous. through the chair, councillor nunziata, from.

T

An enforcement perspective if the rules are put in place such as you could not have access.

T

To certain types of products and laundry detergent. on your computer.

T

How business would operationalize that would be their call.

T

Enforcement perspective,, if we had rules such as that, our officers would have to do random.

T

Inspections or investigate complaints of a store to see if, in fact, those products were.

T

Made available because a store could barricade them off, for instance, and not let customers.

T

Access them; or,. If they were given free access to a cashier, would they be able to purchase?.

T

Those would be some of the potential enforcement options. How you go about it.

T

Obviously that would be have challenges, but it would also provide more clarity than we.

T

Have today, which is very difficult to enforcement, and being that, if we, if we implement that,.

E

That you might get some of the retail,, some of them say well, it is going to cost me thousands.

E

Of dollars to to bring this in. and even just decide not even to open it at.

E

All because it is going to be more costly than it would be as far as profit.

T

That would be strictly up to each business owner to make a determination what the cost.

T

Would be to implement whatever rules are in place just like they are today.

T

It would be more difficult. okay.

E

Thanks. thank you.

C

Councillor burnside you're, next, please.. Thank you through you to the staff,. I believe.

I

You mentioned there are 35,000 workers potentially affected by this. Any changes to the legislation.

I

How many workers currently are potentially working on a stat holiday?.

I

That is a difficult numbers to how many could be working.

F

What I do have is that the holiday shopping by law, as it is currently constructed, protects.

F

136,000 workers in the retail grocery and pharmacy areas.

I

I'm looking at ttc workers, police, officers, people at tim, hortons,, bookstores,, whatever.

I

You don't have any data, right?. I don't have that data other than the total.

F

Number of city jobs in the city is 1.461, million., okay.

F

Thank., the retail it is 331,000.

I

The by laws as it currently stands would you agree that there is sort of a random nature.

I

To it?, I believe, exempt to premises include quote.

I

Retail businesses, with less than 2400 square feet and no more than three persons.

I

What is the difference between 2400 square feet and 2500 square feet?.

F

100 square feet., but when I asked that sorry, councillor burnside., it was an accurate answer, but I was not poking.

F

Fun., it is probably not based on an algorithm or.

F

Something exact. this would have been. I don't know if it came from the province. it may have., because we basically this is a cut and paste from the provincial by law.

F

So it does, there is not an exact science behind it and you're right. Businesses have changed.

I

Judging by the laughs,, I think one could infer. It is fairly random and nonsensical.

I

You don't have to answer. your words.

I

In terms of the, there is the one line in ambiguity. restrictions on the size of the store.

I

We go that. number of employees. includes retail establishment, selling goods or services in the form of or in preparation.

I

Of meals., we heard from legal to actually change that.

I

Definition would be problematic.. One of your recommendations has something.

I

In here potentially saying well,, 50% or whatever, that number is in connection with.

I

Isn't that by its very nature, given that we cannot really define what a prepared meal.

I

Is., isn't it going to be hard to figure out what.

I

50% is? the 50%, relates to the size of the store or.

F

To the sales related to food., but you're right.

F

You're picking on what is the challenge with this issue and defining prepared meals and.

F

All the associated pieces- and that is why we give you two options for you to consider.

F

Right. so just to be clear,, I understand the 50%.

I

Is size of the store, but if you can't define what a prepared meal is or what is in connection.

I

With a prepared meal, how would you actually define what 50, how would you count 50%.

I

If you cannot figure out what the definition is.

F

It is a challenge and I'll deferred defer that to cory in legal.

S

The recommendation there is intended to provide some kind of metric or way put at parameters.

S

Around what a store is selling prepared meals would be.

S

There are opportunities to provide some reasonable limits and again open to interpretation and.

S

Obviously, a challenge., a challenge.

I

Challenge is a keyword. coming back if we would do define for an enforcement.

I

If we define anything in connection with so you can sell the prepared meal.

I

Actually, you can sell ketchup for that prepared meal. You actually physically have to go out.

I

And either this is that way: go out and get sales numbers or start taking a tape measure.

I

And figuring out the actual square footage and figure out what that percentage, is.

I

That, probably fairly time consuming, wouldn't you say?.

F

Yes. so you're identifying some of the challenges that we're. Having with this and again, the associated items as well.

I

Just in a bigger role of government, certainly in the municipal licensing section where you.

I

Have a large enforcement is a large part of your job.

I

Isn't clarity, one of the most important aspects of your department? There is clarity, so people.

I

Understand what they can and what they can't do?.

F

So absolutely., that is our our intent, is to get some clarity.

F

On the ambiguity that we have right, now. I'll- let mark jump in on the enforcement side.

F

Thank you., yes, councillor, you're correct, that both.

T

For the customer,, the public who we do, who are subject to our enforcement actions, that.

T

Clarity is important., so everybody understands the rules as well.

T

As officers, so they know when we're laying charges and obviously we don't want to tie.

T

Up court time, prosecutor time, lane charges,, when we don't have that clarity.

T

Thank you any other questions?.

C

If not, I do have a couple of questions. try to be very brief.

C

So your recommendations at this point you're not making any recommendations either as it.

C

Pertains to option no. 1 or no. 2., simply you're, asking information from council.

C

To report back to this committee with recommended amendments on the with is before us.

C

Is that what we're looking at?, our recommendation again, is looking at expanding.

F

Prepared trying to give some clarity around the prepared meals exemption and then we provided.

F

Again, the options to help do that just the two options, and it seems that my.

C

Issue with I've option at this point is the definition itself.

C

And now option no. 1 it, I believe, the more palatable one. In my opinion. Still when I read.

C

That grocery stores, even though you may restrict the 50% or whatever.

C

So it is so ambiguous and so unclear still up in the air, so option no. 2. It is even more.

C

Less restrictive from the perspective. once I get the definition aspect, do you think.

C

That there is room between now and city council, and this question is to city staff or legal.

C

Department to see if there is maybe to report that to council with regards to the definition.

C

Itself in terms of clarifying that, so we won't have that conveyed at city. Council.-.

C

I need a bit of verification on that.. We can report directly to council on opportunities.

S

To define prepared meals., I will say that there is a portion of that.

S

That isn't legal in nature.. It is policy decision about what the extent.

S

Of prepared meals, are., we have questions.

S

today about, would that include things like flowers or not.?

S

Those are policy questions and not necessarily legal.

C

I do have one of the motions that I believe that it was checked with you as well and city.

C

Staff that I'm planning to move. would that be in order, and also would that.

C

Be supported from your perspective, in terms of being something that you can help with.

C

The definition itself, yes, councillor.

S

I believe the motion I have seen is reasonable and certainly in order.

S

Thank you so much., no further questions.

C

So now is members of the public committee. Members of council.-.

C

We're just getting to 12:30 and either I'm going to need a motion to extend and complete.

C

The whole agenda, or simply we'll recess now and reconvene at.

C

I have a motion to extend and complete the agenda,. Mr. chairman.

C

Recess. we have a motion.

N

At least complete this item, because I have another appointment.

N

Point of order? I understand.

C

I had a motion before people were asked from councillor di giorgio to complete the agenda.

C

All those in favor to complete the item.

C

Just now you change is to complete the item. Only.

C

Not the agenda, but the item., not the agenda. The item there to complete the items, all those in favor.

C

Against against to complete the item.

C

Okay, you are for okay,.

C

We have a motion from councillor di georgio to complete this item.

C

Not the agenda, the item.

C

So that's before us right now, those in favor in support of competing the.

C

Item, okay against just one one; second, please.

C

Just for verification purpose, I'm being advised by the clerk.

C

We're very clear is just complete this item, not the agenda. Okay, great.

C

Thank you fantastic. So now we'll go to speakers.

C

And the first thing is these three members and we have councillor neethan.

C

Shan, you are the first one.

C

Okay, I'm sorry councillor fletcher councillor, fletcher.

C

You know no you're, absolutely right. No, no is that's right. I'm looking at my notes now, please go ahead, thank you and I hope not to take too much.

L

Time but it's very good to see all my friends here again that we've come many times to talk about holiday shopping and I do believe.

L

In quality family time, just like you and appreciate my days off with my family.

L

Council has spoken each term. We've spoken about holiday shopping about the.

L

Nine days- and we have said that in the city of toronto, the nine statutory.

L

Holidays must be maintained. We have had attempts by large malls. We've had.

L

Attempts by grocery stores we've had attempts by pharmacies to make to have.

L

Us change our bylaws so that everyone would have to work on those days and.

L

Each time we've said hands off our stat holidays. People need their time with.

L

Their family now there are exemptions in holiday, shopping bylaw, as we've heard.

L

From legal, their exemptions, transit is exempt, 911s exempt emergencies are.

L

Exempt also any business retail business can open up 2,400 square feet of their.

L

Business to conduct business- that's in the bylaw, that's legal right now! So any.

L

Of the big stores that we're talking about, they could open up only 2,400.

L

Square feet, apparently they choose not to it's really, not economical, to open up.

L

2,400 square feet: when you're 200,000 square foot store to open up a tiny.

L

Portion of your store, the city traditionally is said that prepared.

L

Meals, we all understood, prepared meals. You go to a restaurant to have a.

L

Prepared meal when that got taken to court by longo's the justice of the.

L

Peace, yes, the same person that goes there when you say I wasn't speeding.

L

Take my ticket down my dog bit somebody, but it's a nice door. The same person.

L

Said everyone that prepared meals is something else, and everyone who works in.

L

That industry would have to work. The city got blindsided with that. We did not.

L

Expect that to be the case because we've always said prepared, meals means the.

L

Prepared meal so now we have to add prepared meals into our bylaws. Somehow.

L

And our city of toronto act, they all have to go together. I know what a.

L

Prepared meal is, I don't put down a carton of eggs and a frozen piece of.

L

Chicken in front of my family and say well, there's your prepared meal. We know.

L

That's not a prepared meal. Any person understands that and if we get in.

L

Trouble again, I think we'll be in but better shape to attend court and have.

L

Many more people to find a prepared meal is something that you have made and that.

L

You're going to eat right away, it's not the can of soup that you have to heat up.

L

And everything else it is prepared for you to eat. I wish we could simply say.

L

Our prepared meals means only restaurants, we heard legal and we heard.

L

Our mls say that is not what it can mean, so we have to keep this as narrow as.

L

Possible, I do have a stores and my ward that have been charged mr. schrag and.

L

Knows that they open up 2,400 square feet and then they think well, maybe I.

L

Might as well just open up all 5,000 square feet, bang they'll! They have a.

L

Charge now they're calling me counselor. Why do we have to close well because.

L

You've opened up too much of your store. We do it all the time.

L

The point where one of them doesn't bother opening the store any more. The.

L

Other gets charged regularly until they figure out it's easier, not to open the.

L

Store so we have a lot of enforcement ability to do those things and I'm very.

L

Very very familiar with it, so any person understands prepared meals is not cat.

L

Litter, it's not frozen foods, it's not flowers. It's not laundry detergent and.

L

We have to keep that prepared foods area because we're required to as narrow as.

L

Possible and I understand that councillor janice has a motion that will.

L

I hope make that happen that he's worked with legal he's worked with mls to come.

L

Up with a definition that tightens this up to the point where it might not be.

L

Worth anybody's, while to sell prepared foods when you're working in a 250,000.

L

Square foot store. Thank you thanks. Councillor fletcher councillor shan.

O

Thank you, mr. chair. I think it's very important to consider this conversation through an equity lens, and I know there were perils being made.

O

To police officers and certain other professions a some of them, my essential.

O

Be if you look at the type of workers we are talking about precarious employment.

O

Low-Paid the comparisons has to be realistic for us to make that make that.

O

Happen because a worker, a police officer, for example, being mistreated or being.

O

Intimidated by the boss, it's different from a retail worker who's on minimum.

O

Wage who has a vulnerable situation, maybe in language barrier, maybe young.

O

Would not have the same type of access to justice, so it's very important for us.

O

To keep that in mind so to assume that workers have a right in this situation.

O

Is completely false because we heard from workers- and many of them are unionized workers still have a protection of union, and if you took the talk to non-unionized workers, it's even.

O

Worse, if you talk to newcomers, if you talk to people with language barriers,.

O

People who have had difficulties accessing justice to begin with would be.

O

Able to take employers to court or employers to justice. Is it's a false.

O

Assumption so I think it's very important for us as a city, we need to.

O

Make sure that we take an equity angle, I haven't heard much more than how many.

O

Workers would be impacted. We need to look at this further to see what the.

O

Impact on child care, what the impact on transit and and other things should be.

O

It's also doesn't make sense the argument that workers will be able to.

O

Make more money and the employers are doing this so that the workers will have.

O

A better chance to make more income, it's also troubling and laughable, because if.

O

Employers were really caring about workers making more money. They should.

O

Just increase the wages to a decent wage, they should be giving them more hours.

O

Within the workweek on a regular basis so that they can have a sustainable.

O

Income, rather than to be pointing to this as a way that employers are.

O

Actually, making it feasible for more workers to make more money, and I don't.

O

Think that argument sells looking at who's working what and who's working.

O

Working for minimum wage, so I strongly suggest that you know, in addition to the.

O

Confusion around prepared meal. I strongly suggest that every policy.

O

Decision we make have a strong equity lens to it, and this one does not pass.

O

The equity lens as far as I'm concerned, this has many holes in it. This is going.

O

To affect the most vulnerable most most marginalized racialized workers, and we.

O

Heard from many unionized workers who are able to come here through the.

O

Advocacy of unions and their training and so on, but they are not all of.

O

Non-Unionized workers who do not have the voice and aren't able to even come.

O

Here to make those presentation, and- and we need to be, keep that in mind as well.

O

Thank you very much and I'm hoping that the council counselors here will take that into consideration.

O

Thank councillor shan then councillor paul ainslie.

C

You're next, thank you.

K

Thank you. Mr. chair, I'm encouraged the members of the committee not to support expanding the the guidelines or.

K

The parameters of what our prepared meal is, and I'm gonna speak to it from a.

K

Number of different perspectives: first, as a city councillor, one of the things.

K

That I'll point out too is we have a fair wage policy and a fair wage policy.

K

Office, that's had that policy in effect since 1893 and we have an obligation to.

K

Look after people that aren't always well looked after by their employer.

K

Whether they're, unionized or non-unionized, my history, going back to.

K

Worked for a grocery store in in high school and university, and it was a.

K

Unionized work environment, religiously paid my union dues every two.

K

Weeks and I can remember when the sunday shopping laws first come into came into.

K

Effect and as a unionized grocery store employer. I was offered time and a half.

K

Because that's that's what we were happen in our contract and as time came.

K

Along and the sunday's, the stores were open on sundays. More and more you had.

K

Regular time the time and a half was gone, you were back to regular time and.

K

If you were scheduled on a sunday, you were expected to work on a sunday. If you.

K

Refused working on a sunday as some of the deputants meant.

K

Outlined you know I can, I can think of times where I was asked to work on sunday and I refused.

K

And my shifts went from full-time to I worked three days a week and it was.

K

Monday, wednesday, friday- and it was basically alluded to me- you know if I.

K

Work sunday, that, though my hours would get better, and so you know having and.

K

I've seen a unionized work. Environment are you're talking about a non unionized.

K

Work environment in a grocery store or any other, these small establishments on.

K

A sunday you don't have a lot of protection and we have an obligation. You.

K

Know a few years ago we created the neighborhood improvement areas that were.

K

Kind of the the follow-up to the strong neighborhood in areas- and I have a.

K

Number of them in my ward and you can talk to people and I'll go to one.

K

Grocery store and I'm buying something in the morning and then I go to another grocery store in the evening for a completely different chain and a.

K

Completely different location and you have the same cashier and I was like.

K

Didn't I just see you this morning? Well, yes, you did mr. ainslie, but you know.

K

I'm working two part-time jobs to make ends meet and those are the people that are.

K

Going to be forced to work on holidays when they're supposed to be spending time.

K

With their families, we already have the nine statutory days that a lot of them.

K

Are have to work and you know we have to respect their time. There's precarious.

K

Work that we're trying to end on a number of different fronts here in the.

K

City of toronto and expanding the the guidelines of the parade.

K

For what prepared food is, in particular in grocery stores, whether a large small.

K

Unit is non-unionized is not a road that we want to be going down, so I encourage.

K

All the members of the committee not to be supporting the recommendations before.

K

Are you thank you? Thank you. Councillor ainslie.

C

The next speaker is counsillor burnside. Thank you mr. chair through you. I would.

I

Like to clarify some comments that were directed my way in passing, I mentioned.

I

Police officers, but I'm not sure if certain members, weren't listening or.

I

They didn't hear, but I gave a whole list of other people when we were talking.

I

About realistic comparisons, I think people in retail working in tourist.

I

Areas would be a realistic comparison. I was with gas station attendants.

I

Starbuck employees to tim, hortons employees, restaurant workers and anyone.

I

That works in a establishment under 24,000 2,400 square feet, which is.

I

Primarily the variety stores, so I think that's a realistic comparison, but.

I

Putting taking putting that aside, there are lots of reasons not to change things.

I

And- and I and I and I sympathize with those but unfortunately we're dealing.

I

With the reality of a situation which no one has really commented on yet, which is.

I

The definition of a prepared meal- and that is really to me the crux of the.

I

Issue we've already heard that the most important thing that we can do is is.

I

Well, one of the most important things it not necessarily the most important, but a very important aspect of what we do as a government is make sure. There's clarity.

I

In what we do, okay and the back to the original point, it includes retail.

I

Establishments, selling goods or services in the form of or in connection with.

I

Prepared meals- that is the key problem here, so it's ears and from what I got.

I

From legal and what we heard from all of our staff is.

I

That is really the nub of the issue. Whether counselors want to expand.

I

Holiday shopping or they don't, we have to deal with the reality of the.

I

Situation, otherwise, we'll just be back at it again and getting no further ahead.

I

So to me, we have to we've. No one has been able to satisfy me that we can even.

I

Define or properly define, what's in connection with the prepared meal and.

I

Until we do that, just pushing things aside and not changing things is.

I

Actually, an irresponsible course. I believe that the first option is.

I

Presented by staff is not one that I, I think is even manageable and I be.

I

Looking at option number two, thank you councillor, burnside.

C

Councillor and vice-chair karygiannis you're next.

C

Thank you chair. I do have a motion and I'll ask staff to put it up. Please.

J

City council amend chapter 510 holiday shopping by deleting subsection 5 10 41 bracket 1-1, which read prepare meals and adding as.

J

A new subsection, the following the portion of the premises, selling food or.

J

Services in the form or connection with prepare meals, but no other portion of.

J

The premises, it's very clear, it's very straightforward! What prepared meals are.

J

These are meals to people can go in and buy in order to eat. At the very moment I.

J

Mean I've heard from we've heard from deputants here today that they want to.

J

Make sure that they do have those holidays off irrespective of religion.

J

Be at a christian holiday or another holiday, those nine are stats holidays. I.

J

Do remember last year, myself and the councillor to my to my left mediate left.

J

Deputy mayor glenn de baeremaeker brought a motion in that into city council that.

J

We give our staff an additional two days of holidays and make sure that they were.

J

Also being on there and their religious holidays, but some of the members sitting.

J

Around this table voted it down was very unfortunate. So as we move forward, I want.

J

To make sure that people have the opportunity to spend time with their.

J

Little ones of christmas time, people have the opportunity to think to sit.

J

Around the thanksgiving table, we as councillors choose a life that probably.

J

Does not give us the days that we want. We choose the days that we did. They do.

J

Not give us the days that we want to spend with family as a father of five.

J

Daughters, I'll have to tell you when I got into politics. The first thing that I.

J

Said was the very next day my wife was going to reach across the bed, and I.

J

Wouldn't be there and my little ones who had missed their dad when he was driving.

J

Them to school every morning there was a long time ago. I miss those days and I'm.

J

Sure that we need to make sure that the people that are here today and they're.

J

Asking us for them not to miss those days. The single moms.

J

The grandmothers that are looking after grandchildren, the people that are.

J

Working on an everyday basis, it's not the portion of getting time and a half.

J

Or times two is the ability to spend time with their young ones, their.

J

Families, have you seen the commercial that says doing that this priceless and.

J

Then having mastercard, that's it's at the top of the world spending time with.

J

Family, it's not only priceless, it is not only important, but it's the cracks of.

J

What makes our society, if we're, not able to spend time with our families, our.

J

Young ones will go astray and then we're going to say: where did we fail? What.

J

Programs can we bring in in order to make sure that these young ones get back.

J

In life well, here today we have an opportunity, a golden opportunity to make.

J

Sure that those nine days are with the people that are.

J

Asking us to support them, they get to spend time with their families, and we.

J

Get to say that we did something right, something right, that we've allowed; that.

J

Youngster to open his christmas presents, we allowed that youngster to spend.

J

Canada, day or simcoe day or labour long weekend with his grandfather or his.

J

Grandmother at the cottage or even just to be taken down to the lake or to fly a.

J

Kite or just to have a barbecue at the backyard. And if you don't have a.

J

Backyard have a barbecue in the in the in your in your apartment out in out.

J

Veranda is it's very important, let's not miss this opportunity, let's not say to.

J

Our children you're not important, let's not say to the people that are here.

J

Today, the most vulnerable, the mothers single mothers that are working, we heard.

J

That there's close to about you know half of the workforce are mothers that.

J

Are working, let's not say to them that we failed you. It is very important, as we.

J

Move forward that would not fail the most important people of our society.

J

These are the woman that are bearing the children, the woman that are standing up.

J

And the women that are working in order to help their families failing them.

J

Unfortunately, we will fail, ourselves will fail our children and when these.

J

Children grow up, we're going to say what did we do wrong? Well, colleagues, the one.

J

Thing that we did wrong was not allowed them to spend the nine days. The most.

J

Important days with their families, thank you.

C

We have a councillor burnside.

C

Question to the motion yeah, I do actually want to go there. Thank.

I

You, but I thank, I appreciate the warning counselor karygiannis, I'm not sure why you gave it to me: okay, yeah, okay. I just want to make sure of that.

I

Just just for clarity's sake, so how do you you talked about? I have two.

I

Questions for clarity, could you put the motion back up on the screen? Please.

I

So I believe that you're, leading and adding.

I

The section the portion of premises, selling goods or services in the form of.

I

Her in connection with prepared meals, so how do we define what that the the.

I

Selling of goods or services in the form of or in connection, how do we define.

I

What's in connection, my concern is sort of from the.

I

Enforcement angle, so how did we define that to be in with.

J

It's very simple prepared food as a prepared food. You go in, you take something you microwave, but I need it and if you you know, if you.

J

Can't understand what prepared meals are. Well. I'm sorry that you know you still.

J

Want a definition prepared meal is a actually I'm sorry. You asked the question. Let me finish.

C

Councillor karygiannis, let's not be a sarcastic, be respectful.

C

I'm very respectful pleased.

J

The same caution to other colleagues prepared meals are prepared.

J

Meal is something that you pick up and you eat.

I

Okay, so I apologize, I guess you didn't understand the question I actually asked in the form of or connection the key word is connection. I.

I

Understand what a prepared meal is? Thank you very much, but what's in connection what items would be in connection.

J

Anything that it takes in order to prepare a meal that is in connection so.

J

Ketchup wouldn't be included when you get a prepared meal, and you want to you.

J

Know you want ketchup, certainly you know they would catch up would be.

J

Right there, and if it's not, you know to prepared meals, oh okay, so that leaves me.

I

With my second question, I appreciate that clarity was very high, prepared meal.

J

Is something that's prepared for you to take away in each connection? The key I'm.

I

Keep asking connection, but anyway, okay, so we've think you understand the word connection.

I

Now so with ketchup, if it's not there would you expect the retailer to move.

I

Anything in connection with prepared meals to an area of the store.

I

If the store owner prepares the meal and that meal needs ketchup, then he will have.

J

That catch a pack of available for them to take away. Okay, you think that's! It is.

J

Readily available for a prepared meal, you know we can pick on ketchup. You can.

J

Click on on barbecue sauce, you can pick on hot sauce and all that stuff. Let's.

J

Not play with words the words here, and what we need to make sure is that the.

J

People that are sitting out there, the people that presented to us the people that asked us we do not let them down. You can play with words councillor you.

J

Can have the word ketchup and you can have this word or that word, but at the.

J

End of the day, at the end of the day, those holidays are very important to.

J

Those kids and nothing else, we do nothing else that we see we shouldn't.

J

Tell them okay, but if it is very important from a legal standpoint, and I.

I

Know you have some knowledge of the law. Is that we actually do clarify what is.

I

In connection with for an enforcement perspective, but anyway, irrespective of.

I

That last question you, you move this motion because you want to. I know you.

I

Said about children and families and and maintaining that that those nine days.

I

How does this motion in any way help the people that work at gas station.

I

Starbucks restaurant workers: no I'm just asking for clarification because he said.

I

That's so important, sorry, councillor fletcher does it does this motion.

I

Address that that's all I want this motion addresses.

J

The people that are in front of us this motion is is the people that are here to.

J

Ask us that we do not fail them. Anything else.

J

We failed them anything else. We are letting them down anything else, not only we're letting them down we're letting the families down and their youngsters down. So I would say to you that you'll.

J

Have to look at a youngster, the single mothers or the grandmas that are here.

J

And say to their little ones: we really don't care about you. We really don't.

J

Care about, if your mom and your dad is spending the time with you.

J

Thank you for the clarification. The next speaker is.

C

A questions I'm sorry councillor di giorgio you're next.

C

Okay, just in the context of enforcement, when.

N

It comes to your motion, councillor karygiannis, I'm looking at it from the.

N

Perspective of the cashier, so here's the cashier and someone comes with prepared.

N

Foods and anything connected with food, but all of a sudden they decide they.

N

Bring detergent to the cashier you're saying to me through this motion that.

N

The cashier basically has to say sorry that detergents got to go back on the.

N

Shelf, well that fair, the the the the question then arises is why didn't the.

J

Store owner rope off that area, so people can go and get the detergent understood.

N

But I'm just saying may not be physically possible to rope off all the.

N

Areas that are not, you know that they shouldn't be in. So what I'm saying is.

N

The the the best place to catch it is at the cashier level. You know that would be.

N

Ask the cashier yes, no, and it will be at the discretion of the cashier, all right.

J

Thank you. Thank you any other questions, as he relates to a.

C

Clarification of the motion, if not we'll go back to speakers, we have deputy mayor de.

C

Baeremaeker you're next.

Q

Thank you mr. chair I'll, be supporting councillor karygiannis' motion and I'll.

Q

Call it maybe the option one, the more restrictive option and I do want to.

Q

Think that thank the deputants that came out today, because it really is helping.

Q

To educate me, I may be past university age or certainly past high school age,.

Q

But I have to say after 14 years of being in this member of council, I am.

Q

Still learning from people both on the labor side here and on the retail.

Q

Council side and I have to stop and reflect because there are arguments on.

Q

Both sides: what is what are, what is our role as city councillors? Why are we here.

Q

What do we legislate, and certainly I have sort of think that we're here to.

Q

Decide what type of commune we want to live in? What type of society.

Q

We want to live in what type of quality of life we want our residents to have. I.

Q

See that every council meeting, when we discuss whether we should have more day.

Q

Care or less day care whether we should have lifeguards at swimming pools or not.

Q

Whether we should have cricket pitches or not, our role as councillors, is to.

Q

Really say for for our whole community, what type of quality of life do we want.

Q

And I certainly know because I worked at pizza places and at the shopping mall.

Q

When I was in my youth, there are people willing to work on holidays, but does.

Q

That mean we should just open up and allow everybody to open on holidays and.

Q

My answer is no, I know I look, I represent scarborough center, it is a.

Q

Working-Class community, it is a very diverse community, and am I aware that.

Q

There are people in my community who would be willing to volunteer to work.

Q

For less than minimum wage, yes, I know that there are people out there who will.

Q

Work, they would, you know if they had to compare you versus somebody else. They.

Q

Would work for less than you for a whole bunch of reasons, but is that good for.

Q

The person who's willing to work for below minimum wage is it willing for.

Q

People say you don't all work any day, because I'm either young or I'm old and.

Q

I want the money or I need the money, so I'll do anything I'll work on any day. My.

Q

Answer is no, I think the government, the role of government is to say you know.

Q

There should be some days in our society that are days of rest that are family.

Q

Days, the majority of our statutory holidays have nothing to do with.

Q

Religion, they are days where we pause and rest, and we think about our history.

Q

Our country, our families, yes, there are a couple of religious days in there. I'm.

Q

Not a religious person, I don't practice religion, I don't. I am not offended that.

Q

We have christmas as a holiday it. It is a day for me and my family and all of my.

Q

Neighbors, wherever they may be from to stop and pause and celebrate, and I think.

Q

You know, and I look and people said well what about people who work in tim's and.

Q

The gas station- I don't think they should be working on those statutory holidays. I think that I've got so many days that I can go and get gas.

Q

For my car that I don't need those 9 days, I know what they are in advance. I.

Q

Know when canada day is, if my car really needs some gas, I've got lots of days.

Q

Before canada date to go and check my fuel tank to make sure I go get my gas, I.

Q

Really don't need to stop at my local gas station on canada day. I don't really.

Q

Need to go to my metro or to the costco or to the walmart or to the superstore.

Q

On canada day, I really don't I'm sure there are people out there who said yeah, but.

Q

When I'm out there, on canada day, I'd like to pop, buy into the costco, yes, you.

Q

Would but, as a society, do we want to work or have people working as a society.

Q

24 hours a day, 365 days a year- and I I I reflect I could I know it's.

Q

Just it's just wrong: it's just not what we should be doing. Somebody one of the.

Q

Deputants brought up ebenezer scrooge, even he didn't work, 24 hours, a.

Q

Day, 365 days a year, we have to have some ability for tiny.

Q

Tim and his father and his mother and his family for all of those people to.

Q

Come together and you say you know what we may not be together in most days, but.

Q

We're together on these days and right now, there's only nine of them and some.

Q

Councillors who have talked are correct. Hospitals are open on those statutory.

Q

Holidays, but I can tell you scarborough general hospital is in my ward, those.

Q

Hospitals are staffed by people who understand they're an essential service.

Q

They have to be there, they don't want to be there. I haven't met a doctor or a.

Q

Nurse at scarborough general, who actually wants to work on christmas day.

Q

Of any ethnic or religious background, or wherever you may be from in the world,.

Q

Nobody really wants to work on christmas day, but they do because they understand.

Q

The importance of the hospital, but I can tell you and I know those hospitals I.

Q

Have skeleton staff as they call them? They don't schedule surgeries and anything else on christmas day and on.

Q

Statutory holidays because their own staff, the well-paid doctors, the less.

Q

Well-Paid nurses thus staff the support staff. They are on a skeleton staff and.

Q

Only emergencies and again, if you're having a baby on christmas day or a new.

Q

Year's day the staff are there to protect you same with our ttc staff, our ttc staff. Don't really want to work on those.

Q

Statutory holidays, they accept as bus drivers and subway drivers that they.

Q

Some have to be there, but we're on a skeleton staff same for the police same.

Q

For paramedics, so again I I look at it and I think you know the provincial.

Q

Government, you know we live in a real world, has put this loophole in here. This.

Q

Ambiguity here and people are marching in why I I can understand the profit.

Q

Incentive they want to make more money, but really I live close to you know I up.

Q

The street from superstore do I really want to go into a superstore that has a.

Q

Little fresh food section and it has clothes I mean I don't want to be.

Q

Shopping for sandals and a t-shirt and sunglasses, because the bylaw says that.

Q

Any store that has prepared foods is now allowed to open. That's, I don't think, is the.

Q

Intent of the by law, I think we should minimize this. I think we should allow.

Q

People to enjoy some time- and I think if I could go the other way and make sure.

Q

That people in tim, hortons and gas stations and and those small stores.

Q

Closed, I actually think society would be better for it, so I'll be supporting.

Q

Restricting the ability of people to open on those statutory holidays thank.

Q

You mr. chair, thank you. Thank you, deputy mayor.

C

You made it on time, you see, that's amazing, any other.

C

Speakers even not I have motion that I'd like to have a display is that the.

C

Executive director, municipal licensing and standard report directly to city council on november 7 2017 with the.

C

Definition of prepare meals and proposals, which will prevent any.

C

Premises from operating any portion of a store, that's not within the define areas.

C

Of a prepare meal, this motion has been.

C

Has been preparing in conjunction with our legal staff, as well as our city staff,.

C

From municipal licensing standards and now first of all, I want to thank city.

C

Staff for for this report there has been a tremendous amount of work and during.

C

The last few months, and and through public and meetings and so on also.

C

Want to thank all of you all the deputants for attending this meeting there for.

C

Talking passionately about what it matters to you to your families, to all.

C

Of us, thank you for being here once thank member councillors for being so.

C

Passionate about it as well now it's the purpose of this motion is to bring.

C

Further clarity to what's even before us within those two options, and I think.

C

That city council, as we move forward with this item city council, I think that.

C

Members of council have the right to to have before them every single possible.

C

Legal solution that will not end us in court once again, that's why we're here.

C

So it is essential to have a clear, unambiguous guidelines.

C

The guidelines and personally, let me tell you, I have a real.

C

Sense of what it means to have a family, I have a real sense to have children and.

C

I know what it means as a city councillor when I have to sacrifice my own family.

C

Life, because of commitments that we have is it's not only within those nine.

C

Days, statutory holidays, but all throughout to.

C

Means dinners and to means holidays with them. I know how difficult it is is.

C

Extremely difficult and at the same time I understand how important it is to to.

C

Have these days hopes that you have spoken about? It is perhaps that.

C

Those are the only days, the only holidays that families have and you have.

C

Most lot of people, a lot of people do not have money, for example, to travel.

C

During summer months, winter months, down south or whatever most people don't have.

C

The money in the planning, perhaps to go to the cottage on holidays, with the.

C

Families and to enjoy is our holidays as we as we do it, and so that's a situation.

C

That we have to be more mindful as we move forward. There is no need to.

C

Sacrifice our family lives and I think, that's extremely important and I am.

C

Convinced, my friends that any further changes to the holiday shopping, bylaw.

C

Will hurt the most vulnerable in society, the pool those who are strong and.

C

Survive those that may become even victimized even more because of the.

C

Uncontrollable corporate appetite that's been shown over and over again, this is.

C

Morally wrong socially condemnable. I do not support any thing that becomes more.

C

Liberal than what it is, so I hope that these recommendations will bring more.

C

Clarity to as we move forward- and we do the right thing for our families for our society.

C

Thanks so much questions to the mover.

I

Thank you, I'm actually just a little bit confused, given the the previous comments of legal.

I

So is it possible that we get a legal comment on on this.

C

Absolutely I'll be more than glad to answer earlier department.

C

I'm sorry to comment on this motion, certainly so, as I noted in my comments.

S

The wording of prepared meals, the city of toronto act is broad and undefined.

S

And there's a risk were the city to adopt the definition that were narrower.

S

Than that broad meaning, or that a court would consider that broad meaning that.

S

Of course we'd conflict and there would be a problem with a definition that.

S

Wouldn't necessarily prevent council from adopting a definition that is.

S

Consistent with the prepared meals, meaning a very broad definition,.

S

Itself, which would still be open to interpretation.

I

So I'm now I'm even more confused. So is this problematic or not.

I

That one word yes or no is, is this motion problematic? The first.

S

It certainly could be, depending on the definition adopted by council.

S

Okay, any other questions for.

C

Clarification, oh yes, deputy mayor. Thank you.

Q

Mr. chair and thank you for a very great I'll call speech or presentation to us.

Q

In terms of your motion, would you consider it a friendly amendment if we.

Q

Broke it into like a and b with the definition of a prepared meals and b.

Q

Proposals which would prevent any premises from operating.

Q

I've is anything that strengthens no. We are trying to do in terms of the.

C

Definition I'll like to see something I don't want to see loopholes and either or.

C

Options, one or two and I'm hoping that that would prevent that, so it will be very restrictive and clear is if you are.

C

Proposing to to break the motion to prevent any premises that would be is.

C

That what you mean well, I I guess I have concerns with us as a council trying to.

Q

Define the words prepared meals. I certainly support the second half, which.

Q

I think is basically the same as councillor karygiannis' motion. That's my question.

Q

You is I, I have a concern with the you know of us. If you will making that.

Q

Definition, so we have either remove that clause I'll be more than glad to do that. Okay,.

C

Is the purpose of this motion was actually to bring the more clarity from.

C

From my esteemed colleague, the vice chair, where he talks about in connection.

C

To- and there were a few questions with regards to that when this one is to.

C

Prevent that so it's to make it more clear: okay,.

Q

It's so through you, mr. chair, so if you are satisfied that councillor karygiannis'.

Q

Motion was I'll. Call it strong enough to do what you and I just said publicly. We.

Q

Want to do then you'd be happy almost to remove that motion and just support the.

Q

One motion: as long as it works: that's that's intention. That's a perhaps I.

Q

Don't have a problem, maybe we can just talk offline a little bit to if we have.

C

Time any other questions, mr. chairman, I'll ask of legal. So apart from a.

N

Definition of prepared meals, this councillor palacio's motion also, basically.

N

Say even if we have a very restrictive definition of prepared meals, we want to.

N

Exclude any proposals that tend to isolate the prepared meals, part of the.

N

Facility from the remainder of the facility, so you can put that motion back.

N

Up, I just want to make sure my interpretation is correct. Oh it's up there. Okay, so councillor councillor de baeremaeker's, asking that we.

N

Break that up into two separate votes is that correct.

C

It's a member of council members of council. I think that to make it much.

C

Easier because I think we're on the same side, and I we don't want to bring more.

C

Confusion to it I'd be more than glad to withdraw this one, and I will ask you to.

C

Support councillor karygiannis' motion because it only makes sense.

C

I yeah is to avoid any to avoid any confusion. There is the sole purpose of.

C

Putting this probably was to bring more clarity and to avoid the ambiguity, but.

C

We deal with that at council, but we're on the same side on this one. So here we.

C

Have- and we draw in this one all those in favour of withdrawing this one.

C

Okay, so we have now one motion from a councillor.

C

Vice-Chair karygiannis and I'm going to ask okay.

Q

Mr. chair a point of order, I think councillor karygiannis.

Q

Is that effectively moving option? One moving, because I don't see moving option one here.

C

Okay and then we so we have a motion before us.

C

Councillor karygiannis, all those in favor.

C

Against it carries great, is so now I can have a motion to recess and.

C

Will return at in one hour from now 2:15 2:15 de baeremaeker.

C

All those a favor thank you.

C

It was, it was just a burnside, was against.