VMware Carvel Community Meetings, 14 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: Carvel Community Meeting - April 14, 2022

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Carvel Community Meeting - April 14, 2022
We meet every Thursday at 10:30am PT. We'd love for you to join us live!

Check out this week's full agenda and notes here: https://hackmd.io/F7g3RT2hR3OcIh-Iznk2hw#April-14-2022-Agenda

A

Hi everyone welcome to this week's edition of the carvel community meeting. Today's date is april, 14th 2022. If you are watching this recording on youtube and you would like to join us live, we do meet every thursday at 10 30 a.m. Pacific time it's a great way for you to come and meet the maintainers meet other members of the community.

A

You can bring up any questions you have or you may need help with uh things regarding cargill. We would love to have you join us and and get to know you. So if you do have something you wish to discuss and you you want to join us at our next meeting. You just put that down at the discussion topic section and we'll get to it towards the end of the meeting.

A

If you aren't able to join us, there are a couple of other opportunities for you to reach us. We can be found in the carnival channel within the kubernetes slack workspace, where we found on twitter at carville, underscore dev and then, of course, across github all of our github repos.

A

If, at any point you are interacting with us or any other members of the community, we do ask that you please read and abide by our code of conduct, which is within the agenda here, and it links out to the code of conduct. That's in our repo and if you are using any of the karma tools, we do want to know how you are using it. So we've created this pinned issue, and it just asks you to provide a few details about yourself.

A

Any organization or company you're representing, and I optionally provide a png version of the logo of that company and we would add it to our adopters file so just a way to show others who all is using karvel and by you giving us details. It not only helps us build better products. It also helps the community know how others are using it and, in turn, helps them use cargo in a different way for those that are on the call day. Just make sure y'all.

A

Add your name in any organization that you are representing to the attendees list right here.

A

And moving on to announcements so for content this week we have a blog post that was just published by garrett. Cheadle he's one of the maintainers on karbal parameterizing project configuration with ytt gary. Did you want to give any like high level overview of this blog post.

B

Yeah, a lot of examples that we have in ytt are for kubernetes configuration, and I wanted to show an example where we take a project's configuration. This one is for a backstage application, just an example. We found on github um but to take that project configuration and turn it into a set of ytc templates, uh essentially showing ytt's value outside of this kubernetes kubernetes space that we're in all the time.

A

I love that that's really cool thanks for putting that together and if, for those that give this a read and you have any questions or feedback, please reach out to us.

A

Upcoming for next week, we have a blog post coming out by rohit he's also a maintainer on the carnival project, identify go stiff during cap controller reconciliation.

A

So expect more details next week on that, and if you have anything that you wish to share with the community, and you want to write about it or just do a video or demo or anything like that, we have created a way for you to participate, and it's not just strictly for maintainers, so anyone in the community can can sign up for a date either. Those are listed here. You can sign up for something further down put your name.

A

The topic that you're you're wanting to to you know share and then how you're going to be delivering that topic. So is it a blog post?

A

A video is going to be a demo or, if you're, presenting at a meetup or anything like that, we would love to put it here and we would share across all the channels and promote it and um through twitter, through slack through email, as well as on our community meeting, and I say thank you, we would send you a carnival, t-shirt and, um and maybe some other forms of swag as well. So thank you and we hope that you sign up and participate.

A

Now, moving on to releases, we had an image package release this week, 0.28.

A

Joel you want to share a little bit about this.

C

Yeah here is our little friend image package again, calling out the shots and saying I'm have a new version for y'all. So this version has two um two important changes.

C

uh One important change in like a bug fix and a third topic is the one that is there first and now we also released binaries in arm 26 for linux. That was something that was us for from us, so we are doing that.

C

So the the main, the main focus of this release is the bug fix. There was a problem when you were mounting blobs within the same registry. So if you copied the bundle from one right from one repo to another repo in the same registry there, it was failing so this bug. uh So this um there's. This version will address this.

C

This happened two versions ago, and it has been failing since then, but it's not fixed and there's uh our friend alex helped us implement the feature that you see there where, if you provide, when you're copying a bundle from one repository to another, if you use the flag minus minus repo tags, uh it will create a tag for each image that kinda mirrors the original place where this image was from so now, instead of having a tag that is sha dash in the show not image package now it contains like, for example, I don't know g h, c, r, dot, ie io dash sum dash nice project, and that would be the tag.

C

So this is pretty cool thanks alex for all your work, it was quite a big chunk of work that was done there. So thank you very much um so yeah. I think this is basically it and don't feel shy. If there's anything that you'd like to see change, an image package just feel free to come and we the maintainers, will help you if you need some help or not, but we are always willing to get new people to look at our code base. So that's that for us.

A

Thanks joelle and thank you alex thanks for all the help there. Does anyone have any questions or comments for for joao about about this release?.

D

Yeah, how does the repo base tags work with the copy command?

D

Will it work with the copy command? If you do.

E

An intermediate.

D

If you use an intermediate tarball, though,.

C

I mean that's a good question: we use the origin so, like the beginning of times, that's the the repo that we're using to base our tags on. So if you copy from place a to place b and then from place b to place c, the tags will match repo a not the intermediary.

D

Okay, so if we add this, when we put it to a tar, when we go from to the registry, it will have the tag from the source registry, then exactly okay, awesome.

A

For that question, any other questions or comments.

A

A

Moving on to sentence update, slash, what's been worked on this week, just clicking on the project roadmap, taking a look at it. Any updates here to share.

F

No, no updates um just need to clean this up a little bit since march has come and gone and that's all just yeah some some like cleaning up, but it's all holding true.

A

And now, as far as other items being worked on, looks like we got some stuff for ytt to share.

G

uh Yeah we got some new docs, so check them out, and then the schema validation, epic, that we've been working on is in progress.

A

Oh cool anything else that the team wants to share here that they're working on.

E

So just want to call out um thanks need and joe uh neil your prs, both your peers. We are hoping to cut everyday's early next week on cap, just a side question there: do they get travel t-shirts for contributing to other repositories like nope, no joy's saying no.

E

I tried too late.

B

It's too late: we already have them.

E

Somewhat distracting okay, uh but thanks for the contribution, joe, I think yours looking good, it will go after we cut the release. um I don't think we want to put them together right now. We are trying to keep the experimental feature that is going in coming out next week. We want to keep them separate, and then we will do the other merges later on.

E

Neil, do you want to let everybody know what what those features are, or should we take it up? Next week.

H

um Yeah we can go through them, real quick. I don't have the pull request, numbers that might be helpful to frame it.

H

See if I can find them real, quick.

E

One is about having the new configmap names with uh suffix. Another one is about the rename yeah it's. It means.

I

E

Of the full request.

I

Number is 450, I remember the other one.

H

Okay, cool, I can- I can put them in afterwards uh yeah so for the next version of cap. I guess there's going to be a new environment variable that you can set. While you are cap, deploying that will um allow you or will will change the config map that cap uses internally to include a new suffix that is unique to the cap like ecosystem.

H

So if your app was previously called foo, it will now be called food.apps.k14s.io with this new environment variable set and the reasoning behind that is that today, if you have two apps like, for example, you have a package repository that is named foo, and maybe you have a package install, that's also named foo or a package. That's named foo or just any any arbitrary thing. That cap is deploying as an app it will.

H

Those names will collide, it will all be just called foo, so the second iteration of that is, when you are capped, deploying there is going to be a new flag, that you can specify the old name for your app and it will migrate it from that old name to this new naming scheme.

H

So, specifically, for cap controller, we were running into these issues because of package repositories, package, installs, etc. If they're, given the same name, there's like just weird overlapping behavior, where they start to just fight amongst each other.

H

So for us, this, like use case, was pretty important, and this, like combination of the two flags, will allow cap controller to have things named the same.

B

H

Internally, they'll be represented as different.

E

Now, just an additional note there. The first feature that we talked about. It is an experimental feature used with caution, uh because, even though it is backward compatible, there might be some naming different differences. That might be visible if you have a previous version of cap somewhere in the system and you're trying to use the same app with two more different versions.

H

Yeah, so I guess in that vein, please, like check it out, try it out. We want to get some feedback on it to make sure that um that it's all in good working shape. The like end goal for this whole thing is that um today, if you have an app named foo, the like unexpected behavior is that caps has a config map. That's named foo, so the the end goal eventually is that cap. Maybe this would become like a default naming scheme.

H

So this experimental feature is to uh to just kind of kick the tires on that idea that we're moving naming schemes for like internal internally represented cap features.

H

This is like the first step. Please try it out.

E

A

Any questions regarding that.

B

I actually had a question for neil. um You mentioned k14s.io as like the suffix that's being added to the name. Is that, because of backwards compatibility that we kept like this legacy name of k14s? That's what karvel used to be named um short for kubernetes tools,.

H

Yeah, I don't hold like a strong opinion on that one, but I think it was mostly for consistency. I think cap today already has some things that are named in that naming scheme, and at least I didn't want to introduce like uh like multiple different naming schemes within the tool.

E

All the annotations that are there in cap right now are all k14s dot io, so I think legacy.

C

I don't know, maybe it makes sense for us to start moving forward and not just hanging on our past and start changing our our annotations and stuff, keeping the backwards compatibility there for the new naming right. I don't know.

A

Yeah, I think that's definitely something we should actually keep in mind um and figure out who should be involved in that and making sure moving forward, we'll keep that um going and making sure things backwards, compatible.

A

I don't know neil if you need to talk to someone or what the process would be to make sure like moving forward. We'll keep that in mind.

F

I think I can create a github issue. I can't remember if we have one or not, um but it's not a completely trivial change. So uh changing I don't know these annotations across the tools is something that I think that we would like to do at some point and some of the tools already have uh them. So I can at least create an issue to track this work, and then we can figure out on a tool by tool basis when to do it.

A

Yeah, that would be great.

C

Okay, I think, sir, I think that at least like new features, they should be referencing things from the past, like even if there's like a discrepancy there. I think, with time we want to move everything to the new schema. So if you can start doing it bit by bit, it would be better because now we need to have like a way to like to there's one more annotation that we need to have backward compatibility.

C

So it's we're like we're just creating extra work for us if we create new annotations and keep the k14s suffix on them,.

E

I will add that, as a review comment neil in the current pr, uh it's not released yet so we still have some time, let's see if that goes through whether it gets approved or not.

A

Okay right great call out garrett thanks for that.

A

uh Anything else uh in this section status updates what's being worked on.

C

uh Just an fyi, not image package specific, but we started looking into signing and verification and how that would look like in terms of uh our full flow for cap controller. So if you have like any ideas, any suggestions just feel free to ping us and we'll be more than happy to look into things. So just so, you know this work has started already.

A

All right uh moving on to discussion topics, so um one of the things that's been bouncing around uh is what you know for a community meeting. um We have this distributed team.

A

That also is based in india, in addition to being the united states, and we have a global community, you know what what would make the most sense as far as um date and time for this community meeting, and we have you know, should we make it earlier in the day for thursdays, if that is possible, how does the team feel about how the team and the community feel about an earlier time on thursdays or an earlier time earlier in the week, whether that be monday or tuesday or wednesday, um and we're talking, like maybe 8 or 9 a.m?

A

Pacific time, as far as earlier goes.

A

Any initial thoughts reactions.

E

um So, as far as time goes, I think it is 11 pm uh ist right when we when the meeting started it was 11 pm. um I am okay with it.

E

However, it does not work when daylight saving sets in right. Then it becomes really late.

E

So for the time being, I think the time 11 is fine from our team. I think uh one of us will try and attend uh this meeting whenever all possible and if there is a, um if there is some, if we are not able to attend one of is not able to attend, then I think I can give my updates to uh iran and then he can pass on the message either ways to me or to so that that is with regards to the time, and that is how we are trying to manage so far.

E

um First days.

E

However, thursday 11 o'clock is a problem. If it is a preview, if it is any other work day, I think it is, it would make sense, it would be better. So that's that's. That's the discussion from you that we can have.

D

From my side, wednesdays is the only day that can't work um too many cluster api and 10 zoom meetings. um But I think that like tuesdays would work earlier or at the same time, or I'm also happy with the current time nothing later than the current time. But anything now or earlier on tuesdays or thursdays would work.

A

That's some good feedback. um Another thing that I had tossed around and renew I haven't had a chance to connect with you on. Is um the the cap team having their own meeting and it being more so a like a cap team, karbal, meetup type of thing where um I wouldn't necessarily be present to facilitate, but the cap team could be there to uh discuss what they've been working on.

A

Maybe a maintainer, if they're able to to make it out outside, like those that are working on other pieces of cargo, could attend um having that either once a month or bi-weekly um at a.

A

I don't know like uh like 9 a.m. India time.

E

um If this is to facilitate community from india to participate, uh I don't think we have a.

E

We will have a lot of presence there in that kind of meeting, so if it is once a month, I could do that once a month in this meeting itself, even if it is little late right that kind of a date, so I think, would prefer to have a single meeting for now or till we have more base in india or in that time zone.

A

Okay, all right that makes sense. So um so it sounds like thursdays are really hard for you to for the late hour. um If we were to move it to say 9 a.m, pacific time now um come fall. It would still it would. It would end up being just as late for for y'all um once we do um the daylight savings time moving forward.

A

Anyway, we would be right back into the same spot, so if, if they're like juggling with the late time, it sounds like maybe like a tuesday would work best.

A

For you, renu and others in the cap team.

A

Like if we were to do.

A

I don't know, uh I think, maybe just think about it, and maybe we can revisit it next week. We don't have to come up with something right now.

A

And if we want to just stick with the time as this time and date is.

A

D

A

D

Maybe nancy we could do something like one of those schedule or whatever you know with like optional times, um and people can vote for them and just send like a link to the carvel slack channel, with like optional, like four or five times. That makes sense um and then have people vote for them and see which has the most.

D

You know, interest.

A

Yeah, it's a good idea. I can do that.

I

uh Is it a good idea to ask for like not not just one preference but maybe two or three preferences so that we can try to keep everyone happy.

E

You will not get many votes from this side of the world or.

H

Any other time because.

E

The number is less so I think it is.

E

It will be already secured towards other time zones so which is okay, so I think thursday 11 o'clock for now is okay. If we can change that to thursday uh the same time even in the non-dst, uh when the daylight savings sets in that, if you move it an hour earlier for the other six months also, I think that should be fine.

A

And you're saying if we were to move it just earlier on thursday, that would be fine.

E

It's thursdays I like to keep it free uh because, thursday evening my friday already starts.

E

So well, but it's fine. I think we can make make this one hour work.

A

Yeah, okay, um we'll get it figured out. I don't want work to get in the way of life.

A

um Okay, so we have about 12 minutes, left call for feedback on proposed, ytt guides, and examples and uh oh, is that, like a oh, it's slack, okay, I can't share yeah.

G

That's fine. um I mostly just want to encourage people who are interested in like new ytt documentation to give me their feedback on uh three proposed new guides, so that would be like how to convert helm templates to ytt templates, how to use ytt alongside home and then templating in a multi-line string are the ones that have been identified so far as guides that we're going to add.

G

If you have examples of those or suggestions or if you hate them and want to suggest something totally different reply in that slack thread, and let's talk about it.

A

Great thanks, carrie.

A

Okay, uh any anything else to bring up before we we end the call.

A

Okay, all right! Well, thanks everyone for joining today. uh We um hope that you're able to join us live for our next one, if you're, watching this from home and with that um have a great rest of your week, and we look forward to meeting you. Thank you.