►
From YouTube: Should I Kubernetes? (The Podlets, Ep 18)
Description
We did it! We messed up the video, so only sound for this episode. On the other hand, the sound now is of much higher quality! Enjoy, and come back for our faces next week!
The question of diving into Kubernetes is something that faces us all in different ways. Whether you are already on the platform, are considering transitioning, or are thinking about what is best for your team moving forward, the possibilities and the learning-curve make it a somewhat difficult question to answer. In this episode, we discuss the topic and ultimately believe that an individual is the only one who can answer that question well. That being said, the capabilities of Kubernetes can be quite persuasive and if you are tempted then it is most definitely worth considering very seriously, at least. In our discussion, we cover some of the problems that Kubernetes solves, as well as some of the issues that might arise when moving into the Kubernetes space. The panel shares their thoughts on learning a new platform and compare it with other tricky installations and adoption periods. From there, we look at platforms and how Kubernetes fits and does not fit into a traditional definition of what a platform constitutes. The last part of this episode is spent considering the future of Kubernetes and how fast that future just might arrive. So for all this and a bunch more, join us on The Podlets Podcast, today!
This episode's show notes section has some great links, check it out.
For the show notes and transcript: https://thepodlets.io/episodes/018-should-i-kubernetes
Feedback and episode suggestions:
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B
B
Duffy,
hey
folks
and
Bryan
Liles
how
hi
all
right
everyone
so
I'm
really
excited
about
this
episode,
because
I
feel
like
as
kubernetes,
has
been
gaining
popularity
over
time.
It's
been
getting
its
fair
share
of
promoters
and
detractors
and
that's
fair
for
any
piece
of
software
right.
So
I've
pulled
up
some
articles
and
we
put
them
in
the
show
notes
about
some
of
the
different
perspectives
on
both
successes
and
perhaps
failures
with
Kubb.
But
before
we
dissect
some
of
those
I
was
thinking.
B
C
Is
very
short
and
what
kubernetes
solves
from
my
point
of
view
is
that
it
allows,
or
it
actually
presents
an
interface
that
knows
how
to
run
software
and
the
best
part
about
it
is
that
it
doesn't
fit
a
standard
interface,
so
I
can
target
kubernetes
rather
than
targeting
the
underlying
hardware.
I
know
certain
things
are
going
to
be
there.
I
know
certain
networking
is
going
to
be
there.
I
know
out
of
control
memory,
and
actually
that's
the
only
reason
that
I
really
would
give
safer
kubernetes.
C
D
My
part
I
think
it's
life
cycle
stuff,
that's
really
the
biggest
driver
from
my
use
of
it
and
for
and
for
my
particular
fascination
with
it.
I've
been
in
roles
in
the
past,
where
I
was
responsible
for
ensuring
that
some
magical
meld
of
applications
on
a
thousand
machines
would
magically
work
and
I
would
have
the
dependencies
necessary
and
they
would
all
agree
on
what
those
dependencies
were,
and
it
would
actually
just
work,
and
that
was
really
hard.
D
It's
a
I
mean
getting
to
a
can
own
state
in
that
situation,
it's
very
difficult
and
so
having
something
where
you
know,
both
the
abstractions
of
containers
and
the
and
the
abstraction
of
container
orchestration,
the
ability
to
deploy
those
applications
and
all
those
dependencies
together
and
the
ability
to
change
that
application
and
its
dependencies
using
an
API.
That's
the
killer
part
for
me
for.
A
It's
we
get
such
a
uniformity
across
such
a
really
large
surface,
and
so,
if
I'm
going
to
deploy
apps
if
I'm
going
to
roll
out
containers,
what
I
have
to
do
for
one
application
is
the
same
for
another
application
and
if
I
go
work
for
another
company
that
they
uses
coronaries,
it
is
the
same,
and
if
that
kubernetes
is
a
hosted
kubernetes
or
if
it's
self-managed,
it
will
be
the
same.
I
love
that
consistency
in
that
uniformity,
that
even
so
I
can.
There
are
many
tools.
The
help
there
is
customized.
A
There
is
help
if
you're,
installing
and
composing
specific
things
for
for
your
needs.
But
the
understanding
of
what
you
are
doing
is
it's
the
same
right.
So
I
can
use
different
tools
if
they
might
look
different
and
they
will
have
different
commands,
but
what
I'm
actually
doing
it
doesn't
change
my
understanding
of
what
I'm
doing
doesn't
change
so
I
love
that
being
able
to
do
my
work
in
the
same
way.
I
wish.
You
know
if
that
alone,
for
me,
makes
it
worthwhile
yeah.
B
I
think,
like
my
perspective,
is
pretty
much
the
same
as
what
you
all
said
and
I
think
the
one
way
that
I
kind
of
look
at
it
too
is
kubernetes,
does
a
better
job
of
solving
the
concerns
you
just
listed
then
I
would
probably
be
able
to
build
myself
or
my
team
would
be
able
to
solve
for
ourselves
in
a
lot
of
cases
and
it's
I'm
not
trying
to
say
that
specialization
around
your
business
case
or
your
team's
isn't
appropriate
at
times.
It's
just
at
least
for
me
to
your
point.
B
Karlie
see,
I,
love
that
abstraction,
that's
consistent
across
environments.
It
handles
a
lot
of
the
things
like
Brian
was
saying
about
CPU
memory,
resources
and
thinking
through
all
those
different
pieces.
I
wanted
to
take
what
we
just
said
and
maybe
turn
it
a
bit
at
some
of
the
common
things
that
people
run
into
with
kubernetes
and
just
to
maybe
hit
on
a
piece
of
low-hanging
fruit
that
I
think
is
oftentimes.
A
really
fair
perspective
is
kubernetes
is
really
hard
to
operate.
B
C
Well,
the
first
thought
is,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
that
way
and
I
think
that's
a
that's
the
fallacy
that
lot
of
people
fall
into
it's
hard
guess
what
that's
fine,
we're
in
the
sixth
year
of
kubernetes
we're
not
less.
Sixth
year
of
stability,
of
a
stable
release,
it's
hard
to
get
started
with
kubernetes
and
what
happens?
Is
we
use
that
as
an
excuse
to
say?
Well,
you
know
it's
hard
to
get
started
with
so
its
failure.
You
know
something
else.
C
It
was
hard
to
get
started
with
whenever
I
started
with
it
in
90s
Linux,
you
download
it
and
downloading
it
on
30
floppy
disk.
So
there
was
the
download
corruption,
real
things:
Z
modem,
X,
modem
y
modem.
This
is
real.
You
a
lot
of
people,
don't
know
about
this,
and
then
you
had
to
find
30
working,
floppy
disks
and
you
had
to
transfer
30.
C
You
know
one
and
a
half
megabyte
megabyte
miss
still
took
a
long
time
to
floppy
disk,
and
then
you
had
to
run
the
installer
and
then
most
likely
you
had
to
build
a
kernel
so
downloading
transferring
and
following
building
a
kernel.
There
was
four
places
where,
just
before
you
even
didn't
have
X
Windows.
This
was
just
to
get
you
to
a
login
prompt
that
could
fail
and
what
kubernetes
we
had
this
issue.
C
People
are
installing
kubernetes,
there's
cloud
vendors
who
were
installing
it
and
then
there's
people
who
are
installing
it
on
who
knows
what
hardware
and
guess
what
that's
hard
and
it's
not
even
now,
it's
not
even
the
physical
servers,
it's
the
networking.
Well,
how
are
you
going
to
create
a
network
that
works
across
all
your
servers?
What
you're
gonna
use
an
overlay
which
one
are
you
gonna
use,
use?
Calico
you
can
use
we've,
you
don't
need
something
else
that
you
created
or
something
else
that
could
work
yeah.
C
D
Living
that
life
right
now,
I
just
got
a
new
laptop
and
I'm
a
holodeck
from
the
desktop
kind
of
guy,
and
so
it's
like
what
does
it
take
to
actually
get
a
recent
enough
colonel?
That's
the
hardware
that
shipped
with
this
laptop
is
supported.
You
know
it's
like
those
problems
continue,
even
though
linux
has
been
around
and
considered
stable
and
it's
the
underpinning
of
much
of
what
we
do
on
the
internet
today,
we
still
run
into
these
things.
It's
still
very
much
a
thing.
I
think.
A
I
said
there
is
a
factor
of
experience.
For
example,
this
is
not
the
first
time
you
have
to
deal
with
this
problem
right
off,
you've
been
using
Linux
on
a
desktop,
so
this
is
not
the
first
hardware
that
you
had
to
setup
Linux
on,
so
you
know
what
to
go
to
find
that
information.
You
yes
sort
of
a
pain,
but
it's
manageable
and
I.
Think
a
lot
of
us
are
suffering
from
gosh
I've,
never
seen
open.
A
It
is
before,
where
do
I
even
start
and
or
I've
learned,
copper,
natives,
but
it's
quite
burdensome
to
keep
up
with
everything,
as
opposed
to,
let's
say:
if,
10
years
from
now
we
are
still
doing
communities
you'll
be
like
yeah,
okay,
whatever
this
is
no
big
deal.
So
because
we'll
be,
we
have
done
these
things
for
a
few
years
that
we
will
not
possibly
say
that
it's
hard
I,
don't
think
we
would
describe
it
that
way.
I
think.
D
If
there
will
still
be
some
difficulty
to
it,
but
at
ear
point
like
it's
interesting
if
I
look
back
like
five
years
ago,
I
was
telling
all
of
my
friends
like
look.
If
you're
a
systems
administrator
go
learn
how
to
do
other
things.
Go,
learn
how
to
be
little
earn
an
API
centric
model
go
play
with
AWS.
Go
play
with
tools
like
this
right.
D
If
you're,
a
network
administrator,
learn
how
to
be
a
systems
administrator,
but
you've
got
a
branch
out,
you
gotta,
like
you,
got
to
figure
out
how
to
ensure
that
your
relevant
in
the
coming
time,
with
all
the
things
that
are
changing
right.
This
is
true.
I
was
telling
my
friend
this
five
years
ago,
ten
years
ago,
that
continues
to
I
continue
to
tell
my
friends
that
today,
if
I
look
at
the
kubernetes
platform,
the
complexity
that
it
represents
and
operating,
it
is
almost
tailor-made
to
those
people
who
did
do
that.
A
A
But
it
is
so
true
that
some
parts
of
it
will
always
be
very
complex
and
it
will
require
expertise,
for
example,
security,
dealing
with
certificates
and
making
sure
that
that's
working
and
that's
working
and
if
you
want
to,
if
you
have
particular
needs
for
networking,
but
understanding
the
whole
idea
of
distribute
systems
as
it
sits
on
top
of
Corbin
Aires
grasping
that
I
think
is
going
as
we
have
years
of
experience
on
their
own
bells
will
become
relatively
simple.
Sorry,
Brian
did
I
cut
you
off.
That's.
C
Fine,
but
now
you
gave
me
something
else
to
say
in
addition
to
what
I
was
gonna
say
before
so
here's
the
killer,
you
don't
know
they
need
to
know
distributed
systems
to
use
kubernetes,
not
at
all.
You
can
use
a
deployment.
You
can
use
a
stateful
set.
If
you
didn't
run
a
job,
you
can
get
workloads
up
on
kubernetes
without
having
to
understand
that,
but
kubernetes
also
gives
you
some
good
constructs
either
in
the
kubernetes
api
is
itself
or
in
its
in
its
client.
C
Libraries
where
you
could
build
should
be
systems
in
an
easier
way,
but
what
I
was
going
to
say
before?
That,
though,
is
oh
I
can't
build
a
cluster?
Well,
don't
you
know
what
you
should
do
use
a
cloud
vendor
use,
AWS
use,
Google
use,
Microsoft
I,
don't
know
I
mean,
did
I,
say
Microsoft
Google,
Microsoft
use
digitalocean,
there's
other
people
out
there
that
do
it
as
well.
They
can
take
care
of
all
the
hard
things
for
you
in
three
four
minutes
or
10
minutes.
C
C
You
install
it
whenever
you
have
to
manage
your
own
data
centers
and
guess
what,
when
you
have
to
manage
your
own
data,
centers
and
you're,
managing
networking
and
storage,
there's
a
set
of
expertise
that
you
already
have
on
staff,
and
maybe
they
don't
want
to
learn
new
thing.
That's
a
personal
problem!
That's
not
really
a
kubernetes
problem,
so
we
have
to
let's,
let's
separate
those
concerns
and
not
use
our
lack
or
are
not
wanting
to
to
stop
us
from
actually
moving
forward.
Yeah
and.
B
Maybe
even
taking
that
example,
a
step
forward,
I
think
where
this
problem
compounds
or
this
perspective,
sometimes
compounds
about
kubernetes
being
hard
to
operate,
is
coming
from
up
some
shops
who
have
the
perspective
of
our
operational
concerns
today.
Aren't
that
complex?
Why
are
we
introducing
this
overhead?
B
This
thing
that
we
maybe
don't
need-
and
you
know
to
your
point-
Brian
I-
wonder
if
we
could
we'd
all
entertain
the
idea
I'm
sure
we
would
that
you
know,
maybe
even
as
speaking
to
the
cloud
vendors,
maybe
even
just
a
Heroku
or
something
something
that
doesn't
even
concern
itself
with
Q,
but
can
get
your
workload
up
and
running
and
successful
as
quickly
as
possible,
especially
if
you're,
like
maybe
a
small
startup
type
persona.
Even
that's
adequate
right.
B
C
Can't
build
a
house
with
a
screwdriver
I
mean
you
probably
could
hurt
and
will
take
a
long
time.
I
mean
that's
what
we're
running
to
what
you're
really
feeling
is
that
I'm
operationally?
You
cannot
bridge
the
gap
between
running
your
application
and
running
your
application
in
kubernetes,
so
I
think
that's
fair!
That's
actually
that's
a
great
thing.
C
We
proved
that
the
the
foundations
are
stable
enough
that
now
we
can
actually
do
research
and
figure
out
the
best
ways
to
run
things
because
guess
what
RPMs
it
from
Red
Hat
and
then
you
have
Deb's
from
the
Debian
project,
different
ways
of
getting
things.
You
have
snap
from
canonical
it
works,
and
sometimes
it
doesn't.
We
need
to
actually
figure
out
those
constructs
and
kubernetes
they're,
not
free,
but
these
things
did
not
exist
because
someone
says
hey
I
think
we
should
do
this.
B
B
There's
a
lot
of
work
that
goes
into
it
to
make
a
kubernetes
cluster
production-ready
right
and
that
could
be
involving
how
you
integrate,
storage
and
networking
and
security,
and
on
and
on
and
on
and
I
feel
like
we
end
up
at
this
trade-off
of
it's
so
great.
That
kubernetes
is
super
extensible
and
customizable,
but
there
is
a
certain
amount
of
work
that
that
kind
of
comes
with
right,
so
I'm
curious
stuff.
What's
your
perspective
on
that
I
want.
D
You
have
a
choice
to
make.
Just
like
you
had
a
choice
to
make
when
AWS
came
along.
Just
like
you
had
a
choice
to
make
we're
thinking
of
virtual
machines
right,
you
had
you
have
a
choice
and
you
continue
to
have
a
choice
about
how
far
down
that
rabbit
hole
as
an
engineering
team
or
an
engineering
effort.
Your
company
wants
to
go
right.
D
D
In
line
here,
frequently
I
see
that
production,
izing
or
production
Eliza,
Cooper
adidas
means
to
provide
some
set
of
constraints
around
the
consumption
of
the
platform
such
that
your
developers
or
the
or
the
or
the
folks
that
are
consuming.
That
platform
have
to
operate
within
those
rails
right.
They
can
only
define
deployments
and
they
can
only
define
deployments
that
look
like
this,
and
so
we're
going
to
ask
them
a
very
subset
of
questions
and
then
fill
out
all
the
rest
of
it
for
them.
D
B
Another
concept
that
I
wanted
to
maybe
have
us,
define
and
think
about,
because
I've
heard
the
term
platform
quite
a
bit
right
and
I
was
thinking
a
little
bit
about.
You
know
what
the
term
platform
means
exactly
and
then
eventually
whether
kubernetes
itself
should
be
considered
a
platform
so
backing
up.
Maybe
we
could
just
start
with
a
simple
question
for
all
of
us.
What
makes
something
a
platform
exactly
well.
C
A
platform
is
something
that
provides
something
that
is
a
brand
miles
exclusive,
but
really
what
it
is
is
what
is
a
platform?
A
platform
provides
some
kind
of
service
that
can
be
used
to
accomplish
some
task
and
kubernetes
is
a
platform,
and
that
being
it
provides
constructs
through
its
API
to
allow
you
to
perform
tasks,
but
kubernetes
is
not
just
the
platform.
C
Kubernetes
is
a
platform
for
building
platforms,
so
the
things
that
kubernetes
provides
the
work
API,
the
networking,
the
API,
the
configuration
and
storage
ap-
is
what
they
provide
is
a
facility
for
you
to
build
higher
level.
Constructs
that
control,
how
you
want
to
run
the
code
and
then
how
you
want
to
connect
the
applications.
So
yeah
kubernetes
is
actually
a
platforms
for
platforms,
so.
A
C
Both
and
so
Chelsea
tweeted
that
there
is
some
controversy
on
who
said
that
first,
it
could
have
been
Joe
bata,
it
could
have
been
Kelsey
I
think
it
was
one
of
those
two.
So
I
want
to
give
a
shout
out
to
both
of
those
for
thinking
in
the
same
line
and
really
thinking
about
this
problem,
but
to
go
back
to
what
you
said
probably
see.
Is
it
a
platform
for
providing
platforms
and
a
platform?
Yes
and
I
will
explain
how?
C
So
if
you
have
kubernetes
running
and
what
you
can
do
is
you
can
actually
talk
to
the
API
create
a
deployment
that
is
a
platform
for
running
a
workload.
But
what
else
you
also,
what
you
can
do
is
you
can
create
through
kubernetes
api
mechanisms,
ie
C,
RDS
or
custom
resource
definitions.
You
can
create
custom
resources
that
I
want
to
have
something
called
an
application.
C
You
can
basically
extend
the
kubernetes
api,
so
not
only
does
kubernetes
allowing
you
to
run
your
workloads,
it's
allowing
you
to
specify
extend
the
API,
which
that
in
turn
can
be
read
and
with
another
controller,
that's
running
on
your
platform.
That
then
gives
you
this
thing.
When
you
create
an
application
now,
it
creates
a
deployment
which
creates
a
replica
set
which
creates
a
pod
which
down
the
which
operates,
containers
which
downloads
images
from
a
container
registry.
So
it
actually
is
both
yeah
I
agreed.
D
With
that
another
quote
that
I
remember
being
fascinated
by
which
I
think
kind
of
also
helped
define
what
a
platform
is.
Is
a
Kelsey
put
out
a
quote.
That
said,
everybody
wants
platform
as
a
service,
with
the
only
requirement
being
that
they've
built
it
themselves,
which
I
think
is
awesome,
and
it
also
kind
of
speaks
in
my
opinion,
to
to
what
I
think
the
definition
of
four
minutes
right.
D
I
want
so
many
instances
of
this
and
I
want
it
to
be
able
to
communicate
with
this
other
thing
right,
it
becomes
so,
in
my
opinion,
the
definition
of
a
platform
is
that
it's
that
user
experience
it's
an
interface.
It's
the
constraints
around
the
thing
that
you're
going
to
put
on
top
of
that
platform.
I
like.
C
That
and
I
will
throw
out
a
disclaimer
here,
because
we're
talking
about
platforms,
kubernetes
is
not
a
platform
as
a
service,
so
that
is
actually
that's
different
platform
as
a
service
is
in
from
the
way
that
we
look
at.
It
is
basically
a
platform
that
can
run
your
code
and
some
actually
make
their
code
available
to
external
users
can
scale
it
up
and
scale
it
down
and
manages
all
the
nuances
required
for
that
operation
to
happen.
C
Kubernetes
does
not
do
that
out
the
box,
but
you
can
build
a
platform
as
a
service
on
kubernetes
and
that's
actually
I
think
where
we'll
be
going
next
is
actually
people
stepping
out
of
the
onesie
twosie
I
can
deploy
a
workload,
but
let's
actually
work
on
thinking
about
this.
At
this
level
and
I'll
tell
you
what
that
dais
we
got
bought
by
Azure
a
few
years
ago.
They
actually
did
that
they
built
a
path
that
looks
like
Heroku
in
Microsoft
and
as
we
thought,
that
was
a
good
idea.
A
Thing
I
wanted
to
mention
before
we
move
on
to
anything
else.
The
in
answering
is
kubernetes
right
for
me
and
it's
we
are
so
biased
if
we
need
to
play
devil's
advocate
at
some
point,
but
in
answering
that
question
that
is
the
same
as
in
when
we
need
to
answer.
Is
technology
acts
right
for
me
and
I
think
there
is
a
at
a
higher
level.
There
are
two
camps.
One
camp
is
very
much
of
the
thinking
that
I
need
to
deliver
value.
A
I
need
to
allow
my
software
and
if
the
tools
I
have
are
solving
my
problem,
I
don't
need
to
use
something
else.
I
don't
need
to
use
the
fancy
shiny
thing.
That's
you
know
the
hype
and
the
new
thing,
and
that
is
so
right.
You
definitely
should
be
doing
that
and
the
vital
on
on
this
way
of
thinking,
because
at
the
same
time,
time
that
that
is
so
right,
you
do
have
to
be
conscious
of
how
much
money
you're
spending
on
things
and
in
any
way
you
have
to
be
efficient
with
your
resources.
A
And
if
you
are
listening
to
this,
if
maybe
could
rewind
and
listen
to
our
Brian
in
Santa
Fe
we're
just
saying
in
terms
of
workflows
and
the
kubernetes
primitives,
because
those
things
they
are
so
powerful,
they
allow
you
to
become
so
creative
with
what
you
can
do
in
right
with
your
development
process
with
your
rollout
process,
and
maybe
you
don't
you
don't
need
it
now,
because
you're
not
using
those
things,
but
once
you
understand
what
it
is,
what
it
can
do
for
your
use
case.
You
might
start
having
ideas
like.
A
C
C
Service
discovery
is
really
easy,
but
some
of
these
things
are
a
little
bit
harder,
but
what
kubernetes
does
is
here
comes
my
hip-hop
quote.
Jay-Z
said
this
basically
he's
talking
about
difficult
things
and
he
basically
wants
difficult
things
to
take
a
little
bit
of
time
and
impossible
things
or
things
we
thought
that
were
impossible
to
take
a
week,
so
basically
making
difficult
things
easy
and
making
things
that
you
could
even
imagine
doing,
attainable
and
I.
Think
that's
what
kubernetes
brings
to
the
table,
but
I'll
go
back
and
say
this
one
more
time.
C
D
I
agree:
I,
agree
with
that.
I
think
it's
a
good
summary
of
there,
but
yeah
I
also
think
you
know
coming
back
to
like
so
whether
you
should
Cooper
do
this
part.
From
my
perspective,
my
the
reason
that
I
could
really,
if
you
will
I
love
that
it's
verb,
is
that
when
I
look
around
as
a
different
projects
in
the
infrastructure
space
as
an
Operations,
one
of
the
first
things
I
look
for
is
that
API
that
pattern
around
consumption
what's
actually
out
there
and
what's
and
what's
developing
that
API?
D
Is
it
a
business
that
is
interested
in
selling
me
a
new
thing,
or
is
it
an
API,
that's
being
developed
by
people
who
are
actually
trying
to
solve
real
problems?
Is
there
like
a
reasonable
way
to
go
about
this
I
mean
when
I
looked
at
OpenStack
OpenStack
was
exactly
this
same
sort
of
model
right
OpenStack
existed
as
an
API
to
help
you
consume
infrastructure
and
I.
Look
at
kubernetes
and
I
realized.
Why?
Okay
well,
now
we're
developing
an
API
that
allows
us
to
think
about
the
lifecycle
and
management
of
applications
which
moves
us
up.
D
The
stack
right
so,
for
my
part,
the
reason
I'm
in
this
community
the
reason
I'm
interested
in
this
product.
The
reason
I'm
totally
kubernetes
again
is
because
of
that
I
realized
that,
like
fundamentally,
infrastructure
has
to
change
to
be
able
support
the
kind
of
load
that
we're
seeing
so
whether
you
should
kubernetes
is
the
API
valuable
to
you.
Do
you
see
the
value
in
that,
or
is
there
more
value
in
continuing
the
whatever
paradigm
you're
in
currently
right
and
judging
that
equally
I
think
is
important.
Two.
B
Schools
of
thought
that
I
run
into
a
lot
on
the
API
side
of
things
is
whether,
over
time,
kubernetes
will
become
this
implementation
detail,
where
99%
of
users
aren't
even
aware
of
the
API
to
any
extent
and
then
another
one.
That
kind
of
talks
about
the
API.
Is
it's
like
consistent
abstraction
with
tons
of
flexibility,
right
and
I?
Think
companies
are
kind
of
going
in
both
directions,
like
you
know,
open
ships
from
Red
Hat's,
a
perhaps
a
good
example?
Maybe
that's
one
of
those
layer,
2
platforms,
more
so
Brian
that
you
were.
B
You
were
talking
about
right,
where
kubernetes
is
the
platform
that
was
used
to
build
it,
but,
like
the
average
person
interacts
with
it
might
not
actually
be
aware
of
some
of
the
kubernetes
primitives,
and
things
like
that.
So
if
we
could
all
get
out
our
crystal
balls
for
a
second
here,
what
do
y'all
think
in
the
future?
Like?
Do
you
see
the
kubernetes
api
becoming
just
a
more
prevalent
industry
standard?
Or
do
you
see
it
kind
of
fading
away
in
favor
of
some
other
abstraction?
That
makes
it
easier?
Oh
wow.
C
Well,
I
already
see
it
as
I.
Don't
look
too
far
in
the
future.
I
already
see
the
kubernetes
api
being
used
in
ways
that
we
could
not
imagine.
The
idea
that
I
will
think
of
is
like
Cubert
cheaper,
allows
you
to
boot,
basically
pods
on
whatever
implements
that
it
looks
like
you
blade,
so
it
looks
like
something
that
can
run
pods,
but
the
neat
thing
is
that
you
can
use
something
like
Qbert
to
make
a
virtual
Keyblade,
and
now
you
can
boot
them
on
other
things.
C
So
ideas
in
that
space,
I,
don't
know
VMware
is
actually
going
on
it.
Well,
what
if
we
can
make
virtual
machines?
Look
like
pods
inside
of
kubernetes.
Pretty
neat
asher
is
definitely
a
lab
work
on
this
is
now
we
can
just
bring
up
either
bring
up
container,
so
we
can
bring
up
VMS
and
you
don't
actually
need
a
tube
server
anymore
now,
but
the
crazy
part
is
that
you
can
still
use
a
workloads
API
as
a
storage.
Api
is
what
kubernetes
a
it's
not
matter,
but
backs
it
and
I'll
throw
out
one
more
suggestion.
C
So
there's
also
projects
like
an
abuse,
operators
and
crossplane
and
what
they
allow
you
to
do
is
to
use
the
kubernetes
api
or
actually
and
cluster
api
I'll
use
all
three.
They
use
the
kubernetes
api
to
boot,
things
that
aren't
even
in
the
cluster,
and
this
will
be
AWS
services,
or
this
could
be
databases
across
multiple
clouds
or
guess
what
more
kubernetes
servers
yeah.
So
we're
on
that
path,
and
but
I
just
can't
wait
to
see
what
people
are
going
to
do
with
that.
The
power
of
kubernetes
is
this
API,
it's
just
so
amazing
from.
D
If
I
look
at
the
level
2
or
level
3
platforms
that
are
coming
I
think
those
will
continue
to
be
a
thing
for
enterprises,
so
they'll
continue
to
innovate
in
that
space
and
that
they'll
continue
to
consume
the
underlying
API
structure
and
that
Portability
kubernetes
exposes
us
to
define
what
that
platform
might
look
like
for
their
own
purpose,
right,
giving
them
the
ability
to
effectively
have
a
platform
as
a
service
that
they
define
themselves
right.
But
using
and
under
you
know,
using
a
foundational
layer
that
is
like
consistent
and
extensible
and
extensive
I.
A
C
But
what's
going
to
happen
and
I
see,
I
see
the
rumblings
from
the
community.
I
see
the
rumblings
from
the
K
native
community
as
well.
Is
that
we're
going
to
start
standardizing
on
conditions
and
using
conditions
as
a
way
that
we
can
actually
say
what's
going
on?
So
let
me
back
it
us
up
for
a
second,
so
I
can
explain
to
people
what
conditions
are
so
kubernetes.
We
think
of
kubernetes
is
GMO
and
in
the
typical
object
in
Kluber
Nettie's
you're
going
to
have
your
type
metadata.
What
is
this
you're
gonna?
Have
your
object
metadata?
C
C
From
my
point
of
view
now,
I
can
just
say:
I
don't
really
care
what
your
object
is
you're,
going
to
give
me
conditions
in
a
format
that
I
know
and
I
can
just
basically
report
on
those
and
the
status
and
I
can
tell
you
if
your
thing
is
working
or
not
that's
going
to
come
to
and
that'll
be
meat,
because
that
means
that
we
get.
Basically,
we
can
start
building
you
eyes
for
free
because
we
just
have
to
learn.
The
pattern.
Can.
A
C
Give
you
the
most
popular
one,
so
everything
in
kubernetes
is
an
object
and
that
even
means
that
the
nodes
that
your
workloads
run
on
our
objects,
if
you
run,
keep
control
queue,
cuddle,
keep
whatever
get
notes.
It'll
show
you
all
the
nodes
and
your
cluster.
If
you
have
permission
to
see
that,
and
if
you
do
tube
CTL
get
node
node
name,
and
then
you
actually
have
the
yamo
output.
What
you'll
see
at
the
bottom
is
an
object
called
conditions
and
inside
of
there
it'll
be
something
like.
Is
there
sufficient
memory?
Is
the
node
I?
C
Don't
remember
all
of
them,
but
really
what
it
is.
They're
line
items
that
say
how
this
particular
object
is
working,
so
do
I.
Have
enough
memory,
do
I,
have
enough
storage
am
I
out
of
actual
pods
that
can
be
launched
on
me
and
what
conditions
are
it's
basically
saying:
hey,
Brian,
what's
the
weather
outside
I
could
say
it's
nice
or
it
could
be
like?
Well,
it's
75
degrees.
The
wind
is
light,
but
variable
it's
not
humid,
and
these
what
the
conditions
are
they
allow
the
object
to
specify
things
about
itself.
A
C
And
you'll
see
it,
though
the
two
ones
that
are
most
common
right
now:
they're
still
there's
some
conversation
going
on
in
kubernetes
architecture,
trying
to
figure
out
how
they're
going
to
standardize
on
this,
but
with
pods
and
notes.
You'll
see
conditions
in
there
and
those
are
just
telling
you
what's
going
on.
But
the
problem
is:
is
that
a
condition
is
a
type,
a
message,
a
status
and
something
else,
but
the
problem
is
that
the
status
can
be
true
or
false
Oh.
C
In
a
reason,
the
status
can
be
true
or
false,
but
sometimes
the
type
is
a
negative
type
where
I'll
be
like
node,
not
ready
and
then
it'll
say
false,
because
it
is,
and
now,
whenever
you're
inspecting
that
with
automated
code,
you
really
want
the
positive
condition
to
be
true
and
the
negative
petition
to
be
false,
and
this
is
something
that
the
kaduk,
a
native
community,
is
really
working
on.
Now
they
have
the
whole
facility
of
this
thing
called
duck
typing
which
they
can
actually
now
pattern
match
inside
of
objects.
A
Right
so
it's
interesting
because
I
very
much
status
is
everything
for
objects
and
that's
very
much
part
of
my
workflow,
but
I
never
noticed
that
there
was.
You
know
some
of
the
objects
had
conditions,
I'd,
never
notice
that,
and
just
a
plug,
we're
very
much
going
to
need
to
have
the
key
native
folks
here
to
talk
about
subtyping
I'm
really
excited
about
that
yeah.
B
I
was
thinking.
Maybe
we
could
wrap
this
conversation
up
and
I.
Think
we've
acknowledged
that
should
I
kubernetes
is
a
ridiculously
hard
question
for
us
to
answer
for
you
and
we
should
clearly
not
be
the
ones
answering
it
for
you,
but
I
was
wondering
if
we
could
kind
of
give
some
thoughts
around
the
you
know
for
the
padlet
listener
who's
sitting
at
their
desk
right
now.
Thinking
like
is
now
the
right
time
for
my
organization
to
kind
of
bring
this
in
and
I'll
start
with
some
thought
and
then
open
it
all
up
to
you.
B
So
one
common
thing
I
think
that
I
run
into
a
lot.
Is
you
know
your
current
state
and
you
know
your
desired
state
right,
steela,
kubernetes
concept
for
a
moment
and
the
desired
state
might
be
more
decoupled
services
that
are
more
scalable
and
so
on
and
I
think
oftentimes
that
orgs
we
get
a
little
bit
too
obsessed
with
the
desired
state
that
we
forget
about
how
far
the
gap
is
between
the
current
state
and
the
desired
state.
B
B
Updating
this
tool
scaling
this
tool,
maybe
before
even
thinking
about
kubernetes,
being
honest
with
the
fact
that
a
lot
of
value
could
be
derived
right
now
from
some
amount
of
application,
architecture,
changes
or
even
sorry,
to
use
a
buzzword,
but
some
amount
of
modernization
of
aspects
of
that
application
before
you
even
get
to
the
part
of
introducing
kubernetes.
So
that's
one
common
one
that
I
run
into
with
orgs.
What
are
some
other
kind
of
sick
Justin's?
You
have
four
people
who
are
thinking
about.
Is
it
the
right
time
to
introduce
cube?
C
You
work
for
small
start-up
and
you're
working
on
shipping
value
and
you
have
no
kubernetes
experience
on
staff
and
you
don't
want
to
use
for
some
reason.
You
don't
want
to
use
the
cloud.
You
know
go
figure
out
your
other
problems
and
come
back,
but
if
you're
an
enterprise
and
especially
if
you
work
in
a
central
enterprise
group
and
you're
thinking
about
modernization,
air
quotes
I
actually
do
suggest
that
you
look
at
kubernetes
and
and
here's
the
reason
why.
C
My
guess
is
that
if
you're
of
a
business
of
a
certain
size,
you
run
VMware
in
your
data
center
I'm
just
guessing
that,
because
I
haven't
been
to
a
company
that
doesn't
because
we
learned
a
long
time
ago
that
using
virtual
machines
in
many
cases
is
way
more
efficient
than
just
running
Hardware.
Because
what
happens
is
we
can't
use
our
compute
capacity?
So
if
you're
working
for
a
big
company
or
even
like
a
medium-sized
company
I,
don't
think
I'm
not
telling
you
to
run
for
it.
C
D
I'm
gonna
take
the
kind
of
operations
perspective,
I,
think
if
you're
in
the
in
the
business
of
up
coming
up
with
a
way
to
deploy
applications
onto
servers
and
you're.
Looking
at
trying
to
handle
the
life
cycle
of
that
and
you're
pretty
fed
up
with
the
tooling
that's
out.
There
are
things
like
puppet
and
chef
and
ID
in
tooling,
like
that
and
you're
looking
to
try
and
understand.
Is
there
something
in
kubernetes
for
me?
D
Is
there
some
model
that
could
help
me
improve
the
way
that
I
actually
handle
a
lifecycle
of
those
applications,
be
they
databases
or
monoliths,
or
you
know,
composable
services
any
which
way
you
want
to
look
at
it
like?
Are
there
tools
there
that
can
be
expressed,
I
mean?
Are
there?
Is
the
API
expressive
enough
to
help
me
solve
some
of
those
problems?
My
opinion?
The
answer
is
yes,
I.
Look
at
things
like
daemon
sets
other
things
like
scheduling,
predicates
that
are
exposed
by
kubernetes
and
there's
actually
quite
a
lot
of
power
there.
A
Don't
I
don't
think
there
is
a
way
to
answer
this
question
its
kubernetes
for
me
without
actually
trying
it
giving
it
a
try
yourself
like
really
running
something
of
maybe
low
risk.
We
can
read
blog
posts
to
the
end
of
the
world,
but
until
you
actually
do
it
and
explore
the
boundaries
is
what
I
would
say
try
to
learn?
What
else
can
you
do
that?
A
Maybe
you
don't
even
need,
but
maybe
might
become
useful
once
you
know
you
can
use
yeah
and
another
thing
is
maybe
if
you
are
a
shop
that
has
one
or
two
apps
and
you
don't
need
full-blown
everything
that
kubernetes
has
to
offer,
and
there
is
a
much
more
scaled-down
tool
that
will
help
you
deploy
and
run
your
apps.
That's
fine!
A
But
if
you
have
more
certain
number
I,
don't
know
what
the
number
would
be,
but
multiple
apps
and
multiple
services
just
think
about
having
that
uniformity
across
everything,
because,
for
example,
I've
worked
in
shops
where
the
keyway
machines
were
taking
care
by
a
group
of
DevOps
people
and
the
production
machines.
Oh,
my
god,
they
were
taking
care
by
other
groups
without
different
group
of
people
and
the
Tuesday.
Each
of
these
groups
use
were
different
in
that
I.
As
a
developer,
I
had
to
know
everything
you
know.
A
How
did
the
ploy
here
how
to
deploy
there
and
I
had
to
have
my
little
nose
recipes,
because
whenever
I
did
it
first
of
all,
I
wasn't
doing
that
multiple
times
a
day,
I
had
to
read
through
the
notes
to
know
how
what
to
do
I
mean
just
imagine
if
it
was
one
platform
that
I
was
applying
to
with
CLI
commands
very
fairly
easy
to
use
likes
communities.
Has
it
gives
us
with
tube
CTO?
You
know
you
have
to
take
outside
the
box.
A
Think
about
these
other
operations
that
you
have
that
people
in
your
company
are
going
to
have
to
do.
How
is
it
is
going
to
be
in
the
future,
hire
someone
who
knows
your
stack,
because
your
stack
is
the
same
that
people
in
your
industry
also
using
I.
Think
about
all
these
things,
not
just
you
I
think
people
have
to
take
up
across
the
entire
set
of
problems,
so.
C
I
I
wanted
to
mention
one
more
thing,
and
this
is
a
you
know:
producing
lots
of
content
here
with
the
popplets
and
other
with
our
co-workers.
So
I
want
to
actually
give
a
shout
out
to
the
TGI
K.
We
want
to
know
what
you
can
do
in
kubernetes
and
you
want
to
have
your
imagination
expands
it
a
little
bit
every
Friday
we
make
a
new
video
and
actually
funny
enough
3/4
of
the
people
on
this
call
have
actually
done
this
we're
on
Friday.
C
We
pick
a
topic
and
we
go
in
and
it
might
be
something
to
be
interesting
to
you
or
it
might
not,
and
we're
all
over
the
place,
we're
not
just
on
applications
but
we're
applications
low
level.
My
application
is
running
on
kubernetes
new
things
that
just
came
out.
We've
been
doing
this
for
a
hundred
and
one
episodes
now
Wow.
So
go
look
at
that.
If
you
need
some
examples
of
what
things
you
can
do
on
kubernetes
I
am.
A
So
glad
to
take
800,
maybe
somebody
an
English
speaker
should
repeat
that
cuz
my
accent
but
I.
Just
let
me
just
say
I'm
so
glad
you
mentioned
that
Brian,
because
I
was
sitting
here
as
we're
talking
and
thinking.
There
should
be
a
catalog
of
use
cases
of
what
kubernetes
can
do
not
just
like
the
rice
and
beans,
but
like
a
lot
of
different
use
cases,
maybe
things
that
are
unique,
that
people
don't
think
about
to
use
because
they
haven't
run
into
that
media,
but
they
could
use
it
as
a
supply.
A
A
D
Neat,
you
can
come
ask
us
questions.
There's
a
live
chat
inside
of
that
venue.
It's
like
a
live
chat.
You
can
ask
us
questions.
We
can
you
can
do
us
ideas
all
kinds
of
crazy
things,
just
like
you
can
with
the
pod
'lets.
If
you
have
an
idea
for
an
episode
or
something
that
you
want
us
to
cover,
or
if
you
have,
you
know
something
that
you're
interested
in
you
can
go
to
the
pod.
Let's
do
that.
I'll
link
you
to
our
github
pages,
where
you
can
actually
open
an
issue
about
things.
B
B
B
Right:
everyone
well
that
wraps
it
up
for
at
least
part
1
of,
should
I
kubernetes,
and
we
appreciate
you
listening
thanks,
so
much
be
sure
to
check
out
the
show
notes.
As
duffy
mentioned
for
some
of
the
articles
we
read
preparing
for
this
episode
and
TGI
k
links
and
all
that
good
stuff.
So
again,
I'm
josh
rosso
signing
out
with
us
also
carly,
SIA
campos
bye.
Everybody
was
great
to
be
here:
duffy
coolly,
thanks
go
in
Bryan
Liles,
so
next
time,
bye.