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From YouTube: Learning Distributed Systems (The Podlets, Ep 12)
Description
In this episode of The Podlets Podcast, we welcome Michael Gasch from VMware to join our discussion on the necessity (or not) of formal education in working in the realm of distributed systems. There is a common belief that studying computer science is a must if you want to enter this field, but today we talk about the various ways in which individuals can teach themselves everything they need to know. What we establish, however, is that you need a good dose of curiosity and craziness to find your feet in this world, and we discuss the many different pathways you can take to fully equip yourself. Long gone are the days when you needed a degree from a prestigious school: we give you our hit-list of top resources that will go a long way in helping you succeed in this industry. Whether you are someone who prefers learning by reading, attending Meetups or listening to podcasts, this episode will provide you with lots of new perspectives on learning about distributed systems.
There are a ton of learning resources suggested by the hosts. For those, the show notes and transcript: https://thepodlets.io/episodes/012-learning-distributed-systems
Feedback and episode suggestions:
https://twitter.com/thepodlets
https://github.com/vmware-tanzu/thepodlets/issues
info@thepodlets.io
Hosts
https://twitter.com/carlisia
https://twitter.com/mauilion
https://twitter.com/embano1
A
Welcome
to
the
path,
let's
podcast
hi,
everybody
welcome
back
to
another
episode
of
Cuba
lights.
This
is
episode
12
and
we
are
going
to
talk
about
distributed
systems
without
a
degree
or
even
with
the
degree,
because
who
knows
how
much
we
learned
in
university?
I
am
Calissa
Campos.
One
of
your
hosts
today
I
also
have
Duffy
Cooley.
It's
a
hi-ho
Duffy
everybody.
B
C
Everyone
thanks
kaliesha
yeah,
so
I'm
new
to
the
show
just
want
to
keep
it
brief,
because
I
think
over
this
show
we'll
discuss
our
backgrounds
a
little
bit
further.
So
right
now,
I'm
with
me,
member,
so
I've
been
with
the
MMR
almost
for
five
years
and
currently
I'm
in
the
office
of
the
CTO
I'm
a
platform
architect.
An
office
of
the
CTO
and
I
mainly
use
Cuban
Eddie's
on
a
daily
basis
from
an
engineering
perspective.
C
So
we
build
a
lot
of
prototypes
based
on
customer
input
or
ideas
that
we
have
and
we
work
with
different
engineering
teams.
So
kubernetes
has
become
kind
of
my
bread
and
butter,
but
lately
more
from
a
consumer
perspective
like
developing
with
kubernetes
or
against
kubernetes.
Instead
of
the
former,
where
I've
mostly
been
around
implementing
an
architect,
kubernetes
nice.
A
B
So
in
my
experience,
I
spent
I
don't
have
a
formal
education
dictionary
I've
spent
most
of
my
time
kind
of
like
in
a
high
school
time
and
then
from
there
basically
worked
in
two
different
systems:
administration
and
network
administration
that
work
architect
on
up
into
virtualization
and
now
containerization.
So
I
got
up
pretty
hands-on
kind
of
bootstrap
experience
around
managing
infrastructure,
both
at
small-scale
inside
of
offices,
all
the
way
up
to
very
large-scale
working
for
some
of
the
larger
companies
here
in
the
Silicon
Valley.
A
Alright,
my
turn
I
guess
so.
I
do
have
a
computer
science
degree,
but
I
don't
feel
that
I
really
went
deep
at
all
in
distributed
systems
and
my
degree
is
also
from
a
long
time
ago.
So
mainly
what
I,
what
I
do
know
now
is
almost
entirely
from
hands-on
work,
experience
and
I,
even
so,
I
think
I'm
very
much
lacking
and
I'm
very
interested
in
this
episode,
because
we're
going
to
go
through
some
great
resources
that
I
am
also
going
to
check
out
later.
So,
let's
get
this
party
started.
B
So
I
guess
you
know
the
very
first.
My
first
experience
with
the
idea
of
distributed
systems
was
in
using
them
before
that
before
I
knew
that
they
were
distributed
system
right,
like
one
of
the
very
first
distributed
systems
as
I
look
back
on
it
that
I
ever
actually
spent
any
real
time
voice
was
DNS,
which
I
consider
to
be
something
of
a
distributed
system.
If
you
think
about
it,
there's
root
nameservers.
Do
you
have
a
bunch
of
caching
servers?
B
You
solve
many
of
the
same
sorts
of
problems
and
in
a
previous
episode
we
talked
about
how
networking,
just
the
general
idea
of
networking
and
handling
large-scale
and
architecting
networks
is
also
in
a
way
very
has
a
lot
of
analogs
into
distributed
systems,
and
so
for
me,
I
think
like
working
with
them
and
helping
solve
the
problems
that
are
associated
with
them
over
time
gave
me
a
good
foundational
understanding
for
when
we
were
doing
distributed
systems
as
a
things
later
on.
In
my
career,
yeah.
A
You
said
something
that
was
very
caught.
My
interest
is
very
interesting
because,
obviously,
for
people
who
have
been
writing
algorithms,
writing
paper,
Switzer
about
service
systems,
they're
going
to
go
yawning
right
now,
because
I'm
going
to
say
the
obvious,
as
as
you
start
your
journey
programming,
you
read
for
job
requirements.
You
may,
though
you
must
should
know
the
service
systems
and
then
I
go.
What
is
this
room
system?
What
do
they
really
mean?
A
Because,
yes,
we
understand
app
stuck
to
apps
and
then
there
is
API,
but
there's
always
for
me
at
least
a
question
aback
at
my
head
is
that
all
there
is
to
it
sounds
like
it
should
be
a
lot
more
involved
and
complex
and
complicated
than
just
having
an
app
talks.
Another
app-
and
in
fact
it
is
because
there
is
a
whole
there
are
so
many
concepts
and
problems
involved
in
distributed
systems
right
like
from
timing,
Clark
in
sequence
and
networking
and
failures.
How
do
you
recover
is?
There
is
a
whole
world?
A
B
Here
is
a
very
good
point:
it's
like
what
are
the
I
think
this
is
sort
of
like
the
there's
an
analogue
to
this
in
containers.
Oddly
enough
like
when
people
say
you
know,
I
want
a
container,
you
know
within
container
orchestration
systems.
They
think
that
that's
just
a
thing
that
you
can
ask
for
that.
You
get
a
container
and
it's
either.
That's
gonna,
be
your
file
system
and
it's
going
to
do
all
the
things
and
in
a
way,
I
feel
like
that
same
confusion
is
definitely
related
to
distributed
systems.
B
When
people
ask
for
when
people
are
interacting
with
distributed
systems
today
or
if
I
were
to
ask
like
50
people,
what
a
distributed
system
is
I
would
probably
get
50
different
answers.
You
know
and
I
think
that
you
you've
got
a
pretty
concise
definition
there
in
that
it
is
a
set
of
systems
that
intercommunicate
is
to
perform
some
function.
You
know
like
it's
like
fun
at
its
baseline
I
feel
like
that's
a
pretty
reasonable
definition
of
what
distributed
systems
are,
and
then
we
can
figure
out.
B
A
In
that,
and
that's
what's
all
about
from
in
my
head-
is
solving
the
problems,
because
at
the
beginning,
I
was
thinking
well,
it
must
be
just
about
communicating
and
making
things
work
but
worried
it's
the
opposite
of
that.
It's
like
that's
a
given
when
you
when
someone
when
the
job
says
you
need
to
understand
about
distributed
system
systems
or
what
they're
really
saying
is
you
need
to
know
how
to
deal
with
failures
now?
Does
it
make
it
work?
A
Make
it
work,
is
the
sort
of
easy
part,
but
the
whole
world
of
like
where
the
failures
can
happen.
How
do
you
handle
a
and
that
to
me,
is
why,
then,
what
needing
to
know
this
rigorous
system
comes
in
handy
and
it's
a
completely
different
thing
is
like
like
at
the
top
layer.
Five
percent
is
knowing
how
to
make
things
work
and
ninety
five
percent
is
knowing
how
to
handle
things
when
they
don't
work,
because
it's
an
average.
B
C
So
and
it's
kind
of
similar
to
your
background
toffee,
which
is
no
formal
degree
or
education
on
computer
science
right
after
high
school
jumping
into
kind
of
my
first
job
working
with
computers,
computer
administration,
I
must
say
that,
like
from
like
the
age
of
I,
think
seven
or
so
I
was
interested
in
computers
and
and
all
the
stuff,
but
more
from
a
hardware
perspective
less
from
a
software
development
perspective.
So
my
take
always
was
on
dissembling
the
pieces
and
like
building
my
own
computers.
C
I
knew
that,
like
it
was
mostly
storage
systems,
Linux
file
service,
but
distributed
file
service,
some
bar-
if
some
of
you
recall
that
project
and
so
I
knew
that
things
could
fail,
a
node
could
fail,
for
example,
or
like
a
node,
could
not
be
writable
and
then
so
a
client
might
be
stuck,
but
not
necessarily.
I
did
directly
related
to
fundamentals
of
how
distributed
systems
work
or
don't
work
and
over
time,
and
this
is
really
why
I
appreciate
the
kubernetes
project
and
community
I
I
got
more
questions,
especially
when
this
whole
container
movement
came
out.
C
I
got
so
many
questions
around.
How
does
the
thing
work
like?
How
does
scheduling
work
because
scheduling
kind
of
was
close
to
my
interest
in
hardware,
hardware,
design
and
low-level
details,
but
I
was
looking
at
Kuban.
Any
is
like
okay,
there's
the
scheduler
and
in
the
beginning,
did
the
documentation
was
pretty
scarce
around
the
implementation
and
and
all
the
controller's?
What
was
going
on
so
I
had
to
like
I,
listened
to
a
lot
of
podcasts
and
Brian
grants.
C
So
those
were
two
areas
that
kind
of
caught
my
eyes
like.
So
what
is
it
like?
How
do
machines
agree
in
a
distributed
system?
If
so
many
things
can
go
wrong,
and
maybe
we're
gonna
explore
this
this
later
so
I'm
going
to
park
this
for
a
bit,
but
back
to
your
question,
which
was
kind
of
a
long-winded
answer
or
road
to
answering
a
question
Duffey.
For
me,
the
civilian
system
is
like
this
kind
of
coherent
network
of
computer
machines.
That,
from
the
outside,
to
an
end
user
or
to
another
client,
looks
like
one
gigantic.
C
B
That
I
mean
it
is
interesting,
like
I,
don't
want
to
get
I
guess.
This
is
probably
not
just
into
the
distributed
systems
talk,
but
like
obviously,
one
of
the
questions
that
falls
out
for
me
when,
when
I
hear,
that
answer
is
whether
then,
what
is
the
difference
between
like
a
micro
service
architecture
and
distributed
systems,
because
I
think
it's
mean
to
your
point
like
the
way
that
a
lot
of
people
work
with
applic
to
to
develop
software?
It's
like
we're
gonna,
develop
a
monolithic
application
just
by
Nature
right,
we're
gonna.
B
Well,
how
do
we
have
to
architect
that's
differently
in
such
a
way
that
it
can
support
that
then
load
and
that's
where
I
feel
like
the
beams
kind
of
cross
right,
like
you're,
suddenly
in
a
world
where
you're,
not
only
just
talking
about
micro
services,
you're
also
talking
about
distributed
systems,
because
you're
gonna
start
thinking
about
how
to
understand
transactionality
throughout
that
system?
How
to
understand
how
you
know
all
of
those
consensus
things
that
you're
referring
to
like
how
do
they
affect
it
when
I
when
I
add
mr.
C
Maybe
you
don't
even
know
where
it
kind
of
is
distributed
and
the
client
kind
of
works
with
the
local
stale
data,
so
that
is
also
part
of
your
distributed
system
and
something
I
want
to
give
credit
to
the
Kafka
community
and
some
of
the
engineers
on
Kafka,
because
there
was
a
great
talk
lately
that
the
Hurons
like
right.
The
client
is
also
part
of
your
distributed
system,
even
though,
usually
we
think
it's
just
a
server
like
those
many
server
machines
or
those
micro
services,
at
least
I
missed
that
long
long
time
we.
B
A
A
You
have
like
the
minutia
in
and
things
to
get
done,
but
so
many
times
I
struggle
and
a
is
in
the
rare
in
the
rare
occasions
where
I
go.
Okay,
let
me
just
learn
this
stuff.
Is
tough,
try
an
error,
it
makes
such
a
difference
and
then
once
you
learn,
it
stays
with
you
forever.
So
it's
really
good.
It's
so
refreshing
to
read
a
paper
and
understand
things
that
are
a
different
level
and
that's
what
this
episode
is
I.
Don't
know
if
we
want
it.
This
is
the
time
to
jump
in
into
the
list.
A
Our
recommendations,
I,
don't
know
how
how
deep
my
co
your
going
to
go.
You
have
a
ton
of
things
listed
and
everything
that
we
mention
on
there.
Just
everyday
we
mentioned
on
the
show
is
going
to
be
on
our
websites
on
the
show
notes.
So
nobody
needs
to
be
necessarily
taking
notes.
Oh
and
another
thing
I
wanted
to
say
is
it
would
be
lovely
if
people
would
get
back
to
us
once
you
listen
to
this.
Let
us
know
if
you
want
to
add
anything
to
do
it
to
this
list
of
the
awesome
right.
C
A
C
For
it,
okay,
perfect,
so
honestly,
even
though
not
the
first
in
the
list,
but
the
first
thing
that
I
read
so
maybe
from
kind
of
my
history
I
approach,
things
was
searching
for
like
how
do
computers
work
and
what
are
some
of
the
issues
and
how
do
computers
and
machines
agree?
Obviously,
the
classic
paper
that
I
read
was
the
Lambert
paper
time
clocks
and
the
ordering
of
events
in
a
distributed
system
and
I
want
to
be
honest.
Like
first
time
I
read
it.
C
I
didn't
really
get
the
full
essence
of
the
paper,
because
it
is,
it
doesn't
prove
in
there,
and
so
they
like
them.
The
mathematic
proof
for
me,
didn't
like
click
immediately,
and
there
were
so
many
things
and
concepts
and
physics
and
time
and
that
that
were
thrown
at
me,
where
I
was
looking
for
answers
and
I
had
more
questions
than
answers,
but
this
is
not
to
Leslie.
This
is
more
like
by
the
time
I
just
wasn't
prepared
for
the
that.
How
deep
the
rabbit-hole
goes
and
so
I
thought.
C
If
he's
done
before
fully
releasing
that
book,
which
took
him
more
than
four
years
to
release
that
book
and
it's
it's
kind
of
almost
the
Bible,
the
state
of
the
art
Bible
when
it
comes
to
all
concepts
and
distributed
systems,
obviously
consensus
network
failures
and
all
the
stuff,
but
and
also
leading
into
modern
data,
streaming
data
platform
architectures
inspired
by,
for
example,
LinkedIn
and
other
communities,
so
that
that
would
be
the
book
that
I
would
recommend
to
someone.
If
it
would,
you
would
just
have
time
to
read
one
book.
B
That's
a
neat
approach.
I,
like
the
idea
of
like
you
know,
we've
had
one
thing:
if
you
have
one
way
to
to
help
somebody
ramp
on
distributed
systems
and
stuff,
what
would
it
be
for
me?
It's
actually
I,
don't
think
I
would
I
would
recommend
a
book
oddly
enough,
like
I,
feel
like
I,
would
I
would
actually
I'd
probably
drive
them
toward
the
kind
of
project
like
the
kind,
cigs,
kh2,
IO
project
and
say
this
is
a
distributed
system
all
by
itself.
D
B
You
can
do
a
lot
of
really
interesting
things
and
there's
actually
another
book
in
your
list
that
was
written
by
Brendon
burns
about
like
designing
distributed
systems,
yes,
I
think
it's
called
and
that
book
I
think
he
actually
uses
kubernetes
as
a
model
for
how
to
to
go
about
achieving
these
things,
which
I
think
is
incredibly
valuable
because
like
because
it
really
gets
into
like
you
know,
some
of
them
more
stable
design
distributed
systems
patterns
that
are
around
and
I
feel,
like.
That's
a
great
play,
that's
a
great
entry
point.
B
Explore
what
how
they
work
and
what
the
problems
with
them
are
and
like
like
and
how
they
went
about
solving
those
problems
like
really
dig
into
the
idea
of
it
like
it.
Please
get
something
you
can
put
your
hands
on
and
play
with,
like
I
mean
Cabrini.
This
is
a
great
example
of
this,
and
this
is
actually
why
I
referred
to
cutting
right.
A
Yet
the
way
that
works
for
me
when
I'm
learning
something
like
that
is
to
really
think
about
where
the
boundaries
are,
what
the
limitations
are,
where
the
trade-offs
are
and
if
you
can
take
a
smaller
system,
maybe
something
like
the
kind
project
and
I
can
identify
what
those
things
are
and
if
you
can't
then
ask
around
as
someone
googly
eye
now,
maybe
you'll
be
a
good
episode
topic
for
us
to
do
that.
Right.
D
A
Know
this
part
is
doing
this
map
map
things
out.
So
maybe
we
can
understand
better
and
help.
People
understand
things
better,
so
mainly
like
yeah
right.
Let's
identify
the
what
the
distribution
system
pieces
are,
but
for
people
who
don't
even
know
what
they
could
be,
it's
harder
to
identify,
I,
don't
know
what
I
could
a
strategy
for
that
would
be
because
you
can
read
about
sewer
systems
and
then
you
can
go
and
look
at
a
project
and
how
do
you
map
the
concepts
of
learning
to
what
you
see
in
the
code
base?
C
Exactly
and
something
that
kind
of
really
can
edit
I
had
related
experience
was
like
when
I
went
into
software
development
without
having
formal
education
on
algorithms
and
data
structures.
Sometimes
you
in
your
head,
you
have
the
problem
statement
and
you're
like
okay.
I
would
do
it
like
that,
but
you
don't
know
the
word
that
describes,
for
example,
a
heap
structure
or
a
queue
because
you've.
Never
someone
told
you
that
is
a
heap
that
is
a
queue
and
or,
and
that
is
a
stack
exam.
A
C
For
me
reading
that
book
was
a
bit
easier
like,
even
though
I
have
done
distributed
systems.
If
you
will
administration
many
years
for
many
years.
Many
years
ago,
I
I
didn't
realize
that
it
was
a
distributed
systems,
because
this
system,
because
I
never
had
this
definition
or
I,
never
had
those
failure.
Scenarios
that
in
mind
and
I
never
had
the
word
for
consensus.
So
how
would
I
search
for
something
like
how
do
my
scenes
agree?
C
A
Is
really
problematic
when
we
don't
know
the
names
of
things
because
in
in
you,
in
what
you
said
is
so
right,
because
we
are
probably
doing
distribute
a
lot
of
the
server
systems
without
even
knowing
that
that's
what
it
is
and
then
we
go
in
the
job
interview
and
people.
Have
you
done
a
threesome
now.
C
C
A
More
yeah
right,
that's
one
issue.
Another
issue
which
is
a
bigger
issue,
though,
is,
if
you
at
least
that's
how
it
is
for
me
I,
don't
want
to
speak
for
anybody
else,
but
for
me
it's
definitely
if
I
don't
if
I
can't
name
things
and
I
face
a
problem
and
I
solve
it.
Every
time
I
face
that
problem.
It's
a
one-off
thing,
because
I
can
map
to
a
higher
concept.
So
every
time
I
face.
That
problem
is
like.
Oh
it's
not
it's
not
like!
Oh
yeah.
This
is
this
kind
of
problem.
A
I
have
a
pattern
I'm
going
to
use
that
to
this
problem?
Okay,
so
that's
what
I'm
saying
once
you
learn
the
concepts,
but
you
need
to
be
able
to
name
it,
and
then
you
can
map
the
concept
to
problems.
You
have
all
of
a
sudden
if
you
have
like
three
things
on
the
tool
belt,
you
can
use
to
solve
this
problem
because,
as
you
work
with
computers,
coding
is,
like
you
see
the
same
thing
over
and
over
again,
but
when
you
don't
understand
the
fundamentals,
things
are
just
like
it's
a
bunch
of
different
one-offs.
A
It's
like
when
you
have
an
argument
with
your
spouse
or
girlfriend
a
boyfriend.
Sometimes
it's
like
you
arguing
like
10
times
in
the
month,
and
he
thought
oh
I
had
10
arguments
and
but
if
you
stop
and
think
about
it,
no
yeah,
we
had
one
argument.
Ten
times
it's
very
different
than
to
having
you
know,
ten
problems
versus
having
more
problems,
more
problems,
ten
times.
If
that
makes
sense,.
B
B
They
need
to
actually
be
able
to
explore
that
idea
and
understand
and
manipulate
it
and
be
able
to
to
describe
how
it
works
or
functions.
You
know
in
person
in
in
reality
like
they
need
they
need
to
have
that
hands-on,
like
I
need
to
touch
it
to
understand
it
kind
of
experience,
and
those
people
also
has
to
go
through
those
experience.
It
says
you
know
start
building
this
index
of
patterns
or
algorithms
in
their
head.
B
They
have
this
I
think
they
have
this
thing
that
they
can
correlate
to
right
like
oh,
this
is
a
time
problem
right
or
oh.
This
is
a
consensus
problem
like
what
have
you
right
exactly,
and
you
may
not
know
the
word
for
that
thing,
but
you're
still
going
to
develop
a
pattern
in
your
mind.
Look
at
the
ability
to
correlate
this
particular
problem
with
some
pattern
that
you've
seen
before
what's
interesting
is
like
I
feel
like
people
taking
different
approaches
to
building
that
index
right
like
for
me,
it's
been
troubleshooting.
B
Somebody
gives
me
a
hard
problem
and
I
dig
into
it,
and
I
I
figure
out
what
the
problem
is,
regardless
of
whether
it's
like
a
you
know
to
do
with
distributed
systems
or
cooking.
You
know
it
could
be
anything
but
like
I
always
want
to
like
get
right
in
there
and
figure
out
what
that
problem
is
and
like
start
building
a
map.
B
In
my
mind,
of
like
all
of
the
all
of
the
players
that
are
that
are
involved,
you
know
and
for
others,
I
feel,
like
you
know,
with
an
educational
background
like
if
you
have
an
education
background.
I
think
that
sometimes
you
end
up
coming
to
this
with
a
set
of
patterns
already,
instilled
that
you
understand
and
you're
just
trying
to
apply
those
patterns
to
the
experience
you're
having.
Instead,
it's
just
very
diskette,
it's
like
horse
before
the
cart
or
cart
before
the
horse.
You
know
it's
very
interesting
when
you
think
about
it.
You
know
yes,.
A
C
And
the
recommendation
that
I
just
want
to
give
to
people
that
are
like
me
who
like
reading,
is
that
I
went
overboard
a
bit
in
the
beginnings,
because
I
was
so
fascinated
by
all
the
stuff
and
it
went
down
the
rabbit,
hole,
deeper,
deeper,
deeper,
deeper
reading
and
reading
and
reading
and
at
some
point,
even
coming
to
weird
YouTube
channels.
That
talked
about
like
it's
time
real
and
where
does
time
emerge
from
like
it
became
philosophical
even
like
where
I
went
to
now.
C
I
still
couldn't
read
the
code
like
because
I
I
didn't
know,
go
but
I
forced
myself
to
read
the
code,
which
helped
a
little
bit
for
myself
to
under
understand
what
was
going
on,
because
the
documentation
button
was
lacking
these
days,
it's
easier
because
you
can
just
install
fire
are
kind
way
easier.
Today,
the
hands-on
piece
I
mean
you.
A
D
A
To
people
and
I
practice
this
all
the
time,
so
people
who
are
in
this
position
of
delivery
systems
or
whatever
is
or
something
much
specific
that
you
are
trying
to
learn,
try
to
expose
yourself
to
the
world
because
our
brains
are
amazing
and
once
you
get
exposure,
it's
like
your
brain
works.
In
the
background
and
all
of
a
sudden
you
go.
Oh
yeah,
I
know
this
word,
so
podcasts
are
great
for
me.
A
It's
like,
if
I,
don't
know
something
I
look
for
guys
on
the
subject
and
they
start
listening
to
a
and,
as
the
words
get
repeated
just
contextually
I
don't
have
to
do.
I
don't
have
to
go
and
get
a
degree
in
the
pain
just
by
listening
to
the
words
being
spoken
in
context.
I
start
absorbing
the
meaning
of
it.
B
That
some
of
the
I
you're,
actually
a
number
of
meetups
here
in
the
Bay
Area
and
there's
a
number
of
meetups
that
whole
meet-up
saying
is
chittim
nationwide
across
the
entire
US
and
around
and
around
the
world.
It
seems
like
now
lately
and
those
meetups
I
feel
like
there
are
a
number
of
meetups
in
different
subject
areas
like
there's
one
here
in
the
Bay
Area
called
papers.
We
love
where.
B
Do
explore,
like
you,
know,
interesting
technical
papers,
which
are
obviously
a
great
place
to
learn
the
words
for
things
right
like
because
this
is
actually
where
those
words
are
being
defined
right
like
when
you
get
into
like
when
you
get
into
the
consensus
stuff,
like
they
really
get
into
like
what
even
is
raft.
There
are
paper.
B
There
are
many
papers
on
raft
and
many
papers
on
on
multiple
things
that
get
into
consensus
and
so
like,
definitely,
whether
whether
you
explore
a
meetup
on
a
distributed
system
or
on
a
particular
application,
or
on
a
particular
theme
like
kubernetes,
like
those
those
things
are
great
places.
Just
to
kind
of
you
know,
get
more
exposure
to
to
what
people
are
thinking
about
in
those
problems
that.
A
B
C
Yeah
and
the
podcast
podcast
advice
is
good
as
well,
because
for
people
non-native
English
speaker
I
mean
tell
people
what
speakers
people.
The
thing
is
that
the
word
you're
looking
for
might
be
totally
different
than
the
English
world
and
like,
for
example,
consensus
in
Germany,
as
is
like
totally
different
meanings.
If
I
would
look
that
up
at
German,
that
likely
I
would
find
nothing
or
not
were
you're
ready
to
it
at
all.
C
A
And
I
also
wanted
to
do
a
plus
one
for
papers.
We
love
it's
they're
everywhere
and
they
also
have
an
online
papers,
but
they
have
an
online
version
of
the
papers.
We
love
Meetup
and
a
lot
of
the
local
ones
film
their
meetups.
So
you
can
go
through
the
history
and
see
if
they
talked
about
any
paper
that
you
are
interested
in
and
probably
I'm
sure
multiple
locations
talk
about
the
same
paper,
so
you
can
get
different
takes
to
it's
really
really
cool.
A
B
A
B
A
For
papers
we
love
is,
is
like
going
to
language
class
if
you
go
and
take
a
class
in
Italian
your
first
day,
even
though
there
is
going
to
be
super
basic
you're
going
to
be
like
why
and
you
go
back
and
your
third
week,
you
start
oh
I'm,
getting
this
and
then
a
month
three
months,
oh
I'm,
starting
to
be
confident.
So
you
go
once
you're
going
to
feel
applause
and
huge
impostor
syndrome,
but
you
keep
going
because
there
is
a
format.
A
So
if
you
first,
you
start
absorbing
what
the
format
is
and
that
helps
you
understand
the
content.
So
once
your
mind
absorbs
the
format's
you're
like
okay,
now
I
have
like
okay
know
how
to
navigate
this
I
know
what's
coming
acts,
so
you
don't
have
to
focus
on
that.
You
start
focusing
the
content
and
then
you
know
little
by
little
you
become
more
proficient
in
understanding
and
pretty
soon
you're
gonna
be
wanting
to
write
a
paper.
B
B
It's
like
it's
interesting,
like
the
papers,
have
changed
their
language
when
considering
competition
like
when
you're
introducing
a
new
idea
with
a
paper
frequently
like
that
you're
introducing
it
into
a
market
full
of
competition,
you're
being
very
careful
about
the
language
almost
in
a
way
in
a
way
to
complicate
the
idea,
rather
than
to
make
it
clear
just
which
is
challenging
like
there
are
definitely
some
papers
that
I've
read
where
I
was
like.
Why
are
you
using
so
many
words
to
describe
this
simple
idea
right?
It
makes
no
sense,
but
yeah.
A
One
thing
that
I
don't
want
to
make
I,
don't
want
to
make
this
episode
that
all
about
papers
beloved,
but
it
is.
It
was
so
good
at
you
that
you
mentioned
that
Tuffy,
it's
really
good
to
be
in
a
write.
It
be
in
a
room
with
the
we're
watching
something
online.
Where
you
see
people
asking
questions
and
people
go.
Oh
how.
Why
is
this
thing
like
this
like?
Why
is
ax
like
this
or
why?
Why
is
at?
Why
done
like
this,
and
then
you
go?
Oh
I
didn't
even
think
that
X
was
important.
A
I
didn't
even
know
that
Y
was
important,
so
he
start
picking
up
like
what
the
important
things
are
and
that's
what
makes
it
click
you
can
see.
Now
you
you
like
hooking
into
the
important
concepts,
because
people
who
know
more
than
you
are
pointing
now
and
I
asking
questions,
and
so
you
start
paying
attention
to
learning,
but
the
main
things
you
need
it
should
be
paying
attention
to
R,
which
is
different
from
reading.
The
paper
by
yourself
is
like
a
she's,
a
ton
of
tax
contact
content
that
you
need
to
so.
B
Yeah
I
I,
frequently
self-described
as
a
perspective
junkie,
because
I
feel
like
for
for
any
of
us
really
to
learn
more
about
a
subject
that
we
feel
we
understand.
We
need
the
perspective
of
others
to
to
really
engage.
You
know
to
expand
our
understanding
of
that
thing.
Right,
like
I,
feel,
like
I
know
how
to
make
a
peanut
butter
and
jelly
sandwich.
I've
done
a
million
times.
It's
like
it's
a
solid
thing,
but
then
I
watch
my
kid.
Do
it
and
I'm,
like
I,
hadn't
thought
of
that
problem.
You
know
like.
B
Right
and
it's
I
mean-
and
this-
and
this
isn't
a
great
example
of
that,
like
those
communities
like
papers,
we
love
are
a
great
opportunity
to
understand
the
perspective
of
others
around
these
art
ideas
and
when
we're
trying
to
understand
complex
system,
complex
things
like
distributed
systems,
this
is
where
it's
at
like.
This
is
actually
how
we
go
about
achieving
this.
You
can't
you
there's
a
lot
that
you
can
do
on
your
own,
but
there
is
always
going
to
be
more
that
you
can
do
together
right,
like
you,
can
always
do
more.
B
A
A
My
I
added
a
few
things
for
reference
for
three
books,
but
the
one
that
I
definitely
will
recommend,
starting
with
is
the
systems
Bible
by
John
Gow,
and
this
book
is
so
cool
because
it
helps
you
see
everything
through
systems
like
everything
is
a
system.
A
conversation
can
be
a
system
like
an
interaction
between
two
people
can
be
a
system.
I'm
not
saying
this
book
says
there
is
it's
like
my
translation
and
that
you
can
look
cooking
is
a
system.
It's
a
there's,
a
process.
A
There
is
a
sequence,
so
you
is
really
really
cool
and
it
really
helps
to
have
things
framed
in
this
way
and
then
go
out
there
and
read
the
other
books
on
systems.
I
think
is,
it
helps
a
lot.
This
is
definitely
what
I
am
starting
with
and
what
I
would
recommend
people
start
with
the
systems.
Bible
did.
B
A
D
C
A
Just
put
that
in
there
and
absolutely
so,
I
am
I'm
so
far
from
being
any
kind
of
expert
in
the
service
systems,
but
I
have
noticed.
I
have
caught
myself
using
not
server
system
systems.
Thinking
for
even
complicated
conversations,
even
like
in
in
my
personal
life,
I
started
approaching
things
in
the
systems
oriented
and
just
a
like
high-level
example.
We
I
am
working
with
systems.
I
can
approach
from
you
know
the
beginning.
The
end
sits
like
a
puzzle
putting
the
puzzle
together
right.
Sometimes
you
start
from
the
middle.
A
Sometimes
you
start
from
the
edges
and
when
I'm
having
conversations
that
I
need
to
be
very
strategic
and
like
I
have
one
shot,
let's
say:
maybe
I'm
the
school
meeting
and
I
have
to
reach
a
consensus
on
or
have
a
solution.
I
have
a
plan
of
action
and
I
have
to
I
have
to
ask
the
right
questions
in
my
prior
yourself
who
do
things
linearly
like
like
historically
like?
Let's
go
from
the
beginning
and
work
out
to
the
ends
and
now
I
don't
do
that
anymore
and
that's
not
necessarily
sometimes
I
like.
A
A
My
thinking
has
changed
the
way.
I
see
the
possibilities.
It's
not
a
linear
thing
anymore,
like
I,
see
how
you
can
totally
switch
things
and
I
use
teasing
in
programming
a
lot
like
or
anything,
and
also
writing.
Sometimes
you
like,
when
you're
beginner
rider
you
start
at
the
top,
and
you
go
down
to
the
conclusion,
and
sometimes
I
start
in
the
meadow
and
go
up
right.
So
you
can
start
anywhere,
it's
beautiful.
It
just
gives
you
so
much
more
options,
so
many
more
options
anyway,
yeah.
B
Don't
think
you're
crazy,
I
was
gonna,
say
one
of
the
funny
things
about
where
Michaels
point.
In
your
point,
mostly
it's
like
in
a
way
that
they
have
kind
of
refer
to
like
Conway's
law.
The
idea
that,
like
people
will
build
systems
in
the
way
that
they
communicate,
and
so
this
is
actually
it
totally
brings
it
back.
To
that
same
that
point
of
thing
right,
like
you,
you
we
are,
we
by
nature,
well
build
systems
that
we
can
understand,
because
that
is
the
constraint
with
which
in
which
we
have
to
work
right
it.
A
But
is
an
interesting
thing
because,
like
we
are
also
influenced
by
the
way
we
are
forced
to
work,
for
example,
I
work
with
constraints,
and
what
I'm
saying
is
that
there
has
been
influencing
my
way
of
thinking.
So,
yes,
I
build
systems
in
the
way
I
think,
but
also
because
of
the
constraints
that
I'm
dealing
with
there.
That
I
have
to
be
like
the
trade-offs
I
need
to
make.
That
also
turns
around
and
influences
the
way.
A
C
A
A
Take
home-
or
you
just
said
Michael-
is
we
design
systems
thinking?
How
is
this
going
to
fail?
We
know
it's
going
to
fail
we're
going
to
design
for
that
we're
going
to
implement
for
that
in
in
real
life,
for
example,
if
I'm
going
to
have
if
I
need
to
have
get
an
agreement
from
someone
I
try
to
understand
that
the
person's
thinking
and
set
go
I
just
had
this
huge
thing
this
week.
So
that's
well.
A
This
is,
in
my
mind,
I'm
not
constantly
thinking
about
this
I'm,
not
crazy,
like
that,
just
a
little
bit
crazy,
there's
like
how
does
this
person
think
what
do
they
need
to
know?
How
far
can
I
push
right
because
I
need
we
need
to
make
a
decision
quickly.
So
how
do
like
the
approaches?
Everything,
and
sometimes
you
only
get
one
shot
so
yeah
I
mean
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
that's
how
I
heard
what
I
interpret
were
you
just
saying.
A
Least,
please
so,
basically
I
think
Y,
like
we
ended
up.
Turning
this
episode
into
is
a
little
bit
of
like
here
great
references
and
also
a
huge
endorsement
for
really
going
deep
into
dysphoria
systems,
because
it's
going
to
be
good
for
jobs
going
to
be
good
for
your
life
is
going
to
be
good
for
your
health.
C
Well,
my
what
I
take
from
this
episode
bit
like
being
my
first
episode
and
getting
to
know
you
back
grond,
davia
and
kaliesha-
is
that
whoever
is
gonna.
Listen
to
this
to
this
episode.
Whatever
background
you
have,
even
though
you
might
not
be
in
computer,
like
systems
or
industry
at
all,
like
I,
think
we
three
are
the
proof
that,
whatever
background
you
have,
if
you're
just
curious
a
little
bit
and
maybe
a
little
bit
crazy,
you
can
totally
get
down
the
rabbit
hole
in
the
distributed
systems
and
get
totally
excited
about
it.
C
A
Yeah,
that's
a
good
point
and
my
takeaway
is
he
always
puzzled
me
how
some
people
are
so
good
and
experienced,
and
such
experts
in
distributed
systems
and
I
always
look
at
myself
like
how
am
I
lacking.
I
was
like
what
man,
what
did
I
miss
for
class,
that
I
miss
like
what
project
did
I
not
work
on
to
get
the
experience
and
Ramsey?
Is
you
just
need
for
yourself
in
that
place?
You
just
you.
You
need
to
do
the
work,
but
the
good
news
is
is
achieving
competency
in
distributed
systems
is
doable
right.
B
Yes,
my
takeaway
is,
like
you
know,
as
we
as
we
discussed
before.
I
think
that
you
know
there
is
no
one
thing
that
comprises
a
distributed
system.
It
is
a
number
of
things
right
like
it
is
basically
a
number
of
behaviors
or
patterns
that
we
see
that
comprise
what
a
distributed
system
is.
So
when
I
hear
people
say
I'm,
not
an
expert
in
distributed
systems,
I
think.
A
B
B
You
could
enter
this
stage
where
you
want
to
learn
about
distributed
systems
from
pretty
much
any
direction
you
can
learn
at
it.
From
from
you
know,
a
CIS
background.
You
can
come
to
it
like
with
no
computer
experience
whatsoever
and
it
obviously
take
a
bit
more
work
but
like
this
is
really
just
about
developing
and
understanding
around
how
these
things
communicate
and
the
patterns
with
which
they
accomplish
that
communication
and
I
think
that's
the
important
part
yeah.