►
Description
Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council Environmental Services Committee on Tuesday the 1st of February 2022 at 6.30pm in the Council Chamber at Craigavon Civic and Conference Centre and online using Zoom.
A
A
A
C
C
D
Yeah,
okay,
well,
my
name
is
simon
brown.
Andre
soy
has
already
mentioned
with
myself
and
steven
true.
We
are
part
of
the
weinstein
community
development
association
and,
in
particular,
the
claim
the
planet
emergency
group,
which
is
meeting
under
that
auspices.
D
We
have
met
in
the
past
couple
of
years,
just
on
an
odd
half
basis
in
public
forums
like
the
school
to
basically
give
a
forum
for
people
to
discuss
their
thoughts
on
climate
change
and
obviously
the
wave
of
changes
that
are
coming
across
this
night,
and
I
suppose
it
was
just
a
way
to
help
each
other.
D
Each
one
understand
what
each
one
was
doing
in
their
own
lives,
that
is
making
a
small
difference
to
them,
but
a
big
difference
to
the
environment
and
from
that
unfortunately,
we've
had
the
the
covered
in
as
per
usual
and
everything's
good
set
back,
and
so
those
latencies
have
just
had
to
be
cut
here
in
the
meantime.
D
But
still
we
feel
that
it's
important
to
highlight,
especially
in
the
in
the
current
scheme
of
things.
The
climate
change
is
our
biggest
threat
at
this
stage,
alongside
the
covert
which
is
ongoing.
D
We
would
say
that
from
those
meetings
chair
that
we've
learned
a
couple
of
very
simple
things
that
the
small
things
that
we
can
do
you
can
make
such
a
big
difference
and
suppose
tonight,
that's
really
where
we're
coming
from
we're.
Coming.
Just
ask
you
to
listen
to
steven's
presentation
and
we're
asking
you
to
take
a
simple
step,
and
that
is
a
step
to
ask
nilgos
to
divest
its
remaining
funds
in
fossil
fuels
and
to
take
a
stand
and
represent
the
local
red
pairs
in
doing
that.
D
E
Yes,
apologies
for
the
distraction
of
the
bandage.
I
did
have
some
skin
cancer
surgery
last
week,
so
just
a
few,
if
you've
never
had
someone
or
had
experience
with
that,
I
would
advise
you
to
be
careful
about
skin
cancer.
I'm
just
going
to
share
my
screen
and
so
we'll
get
the
presentation
going.
E
So
you
can
just
let
me
know
if
you
can
see
a
picture
of
them.
The
john's
causeway
there
yep
yeah,
okay,
right,
diving
straight
in
first
thing
to
say
I
think
about
nilgos-
is
that
they're
actually
very
good
about
climate
change
very
responsive
to
it,
and
that
was
reflected
by
this
report
in
2019
of
responding
to
climate
change
in
this
report
it
spells
out
the
facts.
This
graph
is
from
that
report
and
you
can
very
clearly
see
you
know.
The
the
climate
change
is
accelerating.
E
It
has,
it
is
happening
and
they
have
responded
to
that
in
a
very
positive
way,
mainly
demonstrated
by
that
they
have
divested
already
from
coal
oil
in
the
gas
sector
by
130
million
pounds
a
few
years
ago,
which
was
an
80
reduction.
E
Now
the
fossil
fuels
make
up
just
0.4
of
the
total
fund,
so
that's
very
positive
they're
also
involved
with
engagement,
but
they
do
not
support
divestment,
and
this
report
in
page
15
outlines
why
they
say
that
divestment
does
not
impact
profits
of
fossil
fuel
companies.
It
does
not
affect
the
fossil
the
supply
of
fossil
fuels,
and
nor
does
it
reduce
demand.
E
However,
this
really
doesn't
show
an
understanding
of
what
divestment
aims
to
achieve,
and
that's
what
we
want
to
send
out
to
you
today.
Divestment
is
about
demonstrating
climate
leadership.
For
a
start,
it
reduces
the
risk
to
the
actual
pension
fund
through
things
like
stranded
assets,
and
it
also
reduces
the
flow
of
capital
to
fossil
fuel
companies,
which
makes
drilling
for
new
projects
from
oil
and
gas
more
difficult,
and
I
want
to
convince
you
that
divestment
is
actually
a
good
tool
that
we
can
use.
E
So,
let's
explore
some
of
the
reasons
why
we
should
consider
divestment
from
fossil
fuels.
The
first
reason
is
that
environmental,
social
and
governance
issues
are
becoming
more
and
more
important.
You
know
this
is
sort
of
the
moral
argument.
Almost
you
could
say.
For
example,
tobacco
does
a
lot
of
harm,
kills
seven
million
people
a
year
and
air
pollution,
but
actually
from
burning
fossil
fuels
even
kills
more.
So
there
there
is.
This
moral
argument
should
be
be
investing
in
companies
that
are
causing
harm
to
human
health.
E
Then,
of
course,
there's
the
environmental
disasters
and
destruction
that
we
see
like
in
the
mourns
a
couple
of
years
ago.
You
know,
110
firefighters
took
two
days
to
put
the
site
enormous
psychological
damage
there
and
that
and
and
fires
in
the
likes
of
california
and
the
siberia
dwarf
this
one.
Even
the
burning
of
all
those
trees
is
enormous
emission
itself,
never
mind
all
the
the
harm
to
biodiversity
and
then,
of
course,
there's
storms
and
floods
and
droughts
and
so
on,
and
the
impacts
of
climate
change
are
costing
over
300
billion
dollars
a
year.
E
So
there's
a
real
moral
case
that
we
should
stop
supporting
the
fossil
fuel
industry.
But
what
about
the
financial
case?
That
would
really
consider.
Are
there
financial
arguments
you
may
have
heard
of
the
sort
of
phrase
fiduciary
duty.
This
is
where
trustees
and
financial
managers
want
to
get
the
they
have
a
fiducial
duty
to
get
the
best
returns
for
their
members
of
their
pension
scheme.
E
For
for
you,
if
you
are
members,
but
fiduciary
duty
has
actually
changed
quite
a
lot
in
the
last
two
years,
and
the
trustees
now
have
to
have
a
very
wise
approach
to
rapidly
changing
landscape
out
there
and
fiduciary
julie
now
includes
esg.
That
includes
environmental,
social
and
governance
reasons.
It's
a
core
part
of
the
duty
of
trustees
to
manage
the
risk
to
reduce
harm,
and
climate
change,
of
course,
is
a
very
important
part
of
that.
E
This
is
illustrated
in
the
fact
just
there's
new
legislation
coming
in
october,
the
government
reduced
produced
this
report,
graining
finance,
it's
about
the
new
uk
sustainable
disclosure
requirements,
which
means
that
fund
managers
must
disclose
how
they're
doing
on
esg-
and
in
this
report
it
says
70
of
the
public
want
their
money
to
go
towards
making
a
positive
difference
to
people
or
to
the
planet.
So
the
po
people
want
to
see
change.
E
Then,
of
course,
there
are
further
financial
reasons
why
we
should
withdraw
our
funds
from
from
fossil
fuel
companies,
and
one
of
the
main
ones
is
stranded.
Assets
stranded
assets
means
that
an
asset
turns
out
to
be
worth
less
than
it
was
expected
to
be
as
a
result
of
changes
associated
with
the
energy
transition,
and
this
means
there's
actually
a
real
risk
that
fossil
fuel
companies
could
go
bankrupt.
Companies
that
the
fund
has
invested
in
could
actually
go
bankrupt
because
of
stranded
assets,
and
this
has
actually
already
happened
quite
a
lot.
E
The
world's
largest
coal
producer
went
bankrupt
several
years
ago,
then
in
2020
over
a
hundred
oil
and
gas
companies
went
bankrupt
as
well.
This
shows
why
nilgos
has
sold
off.
You
know
80
percent
of
its
fossil
fuel
investments,
because
there
are
high
risk.
What
about
divestment
as
a
is
it
effective?
What
impact
would
it
have
on
on
the
portfolio?
Well,
the
largest
investment
group
in
the
world
blackrock
did
an
analysis
of
13
different
funds
and
they
find
that
divestment
from
fossil
fuels
actually
improves
and
does
not
weaken
investment
returns.
E
So
it's
actually
a
relatively
positive,
prudent
measure
to
do
to
use
divestment
to
help
you
grow
your
fund,
and
this
is
illustrated
by
the
performance
of
fossil
fuel
companies
in
the
last
decade.
This
is
the
s
p's
worst
sector
over
the
last
10
years.
That
red
line
is
the
energy
sector.
The
average
is
that
dark,
blue
line
and
the
highest
performing
has
been
the
tech
sector,
as
we've
all
seen
so
they're,
not
a
wise
investment.
They
haven't
been
for
over
a
decade.
E
What
about
the
remaining
oil
majors
that
the
likes
of
the
0.4
percent,
that
milgo
are
still
investing
like
bp
and
shell
and
so
on?
Well,
their
performance
is
flat
lined
as
well.
This
is
an
industry
that
doesn't
have
any
future.
So
why
are
we
putting
our
pension
fund
into
something
that
has
no
future?
E
Some
financial
managers
would
say:
well,
they
produ
these
companies
still
give
a
good
dividend
payment.
Well,
let's
look
at
that.
Money's
coming
from
the
free
cash
flow
is
the
money
that
these
companies
have
made
from
selling
their
product
from
oil,
gas
and
refined
products,
and
so
on,
and
the
bit
dividend
and
buybacks
is
vastly
greater
than
the
free
cash
flow
they're
operating
at
a
deficit,
a
growing
deficit.
So
it's
an
increasing
risk
with
these
oil
majors
as
well
as
all
the
other
companies
that
have
already
been
divested
from
so
divestment
should
be
considered.
E
E
E
So
that's
why
I
believe
it's
a
case
of
do
both
not
just
one
or
the
other,
and
there
have
been
some
really
good
examples
of
really
large
companies
that
have
done
this.
The
world's
largest
pension
fund
chose
to
divest
last
october
apb
in
the
netherlands.
They
are
actually
divesting
15
billion
euro
out
of
fossil
fuel
holdings
with
by
this
time
or
the
end
of
the
year.
Their
board
said
this.
This
is
a
quote.
E
E
If
someone
as
large
as
this
has
divested-
and
there
have
been
1500
companies
around
the
world
who
control
about
40
billion
sorry
trillion
dollars
of
investment,
funds
have
chosen
to
divest
what
about
other
councils
around
the
the
uk.
Well
luton
borough
council
supports
it.
Glasgow
supports
these
are
all
within
the
last
few
months,
and
just
a
couple
of
weeks
ago,
bedford
borough
council
has
has
joined
in
as
well.
They
they're
stating
publicly
that
they
feel
that
their
own
pension
schemes
should
also
divest
from
fossil
fuels.
A
F
The
wonders
of
modern
technology
yeah,
no,
listen
thanks
very
much
to
the
weinstein
climate
group
for
coming
to
present
to
us
tonight
to
committee
as
you'll
be
aware.
F
We
did
discuss
this
a
few
months
ago
on
council
and
you've
written
another
course
a
couple
of
times
to
come
and
to
present
to
to
the
full
council
actually,
so
they
are
coming
in
february.
So
it's
good
to
have
a
different
view.
I
suppose,
and
will
give
us
information
that
we
have
whenever
another
gods
come.
Maybe
that
just
doesn't,
I
suppose,
they'd
be
given
a
different
side
of
the
story.
F
So
it's
good
to
have
those
facts
in
front
of
someone
thank
the
group
for
coming
to
present
to
us
and
to
give
us
those
facts
and
figures.
I'm
scoot
actually
have
a
presentation
here.
I
don't
really
have
a
question
as
such
and
just
really
to
thank
the
group
for
coming
and
for
bringing
us
the
information.
Thank
you.
A
H
Yeah,
thank
you,
chair
and
sort
of
in
the
same,
the
in
the
counselor
baxter,
not
so
much
a
question
more
more
comment.
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
to
stephen
simon
and
andrew
and
the
warrenstown
climate
group
for
the
work
that
they've
done
this.
H
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
do
have
an
informed
view
and
a
different
perspective
on
them
totally
support
the
call
for
divestment
fully
behind
using
this
and
hopefully
after
nil
goss,
do
come
and
present
the
council,
maybe
we'll
be
able
to
see
a
wee
bit
of
movement
on
it.
So
it's
just
really
to
say
thank
you
for
your
time
this
evening.
I
think
it's
really
useful
and
it's
definitely
been
really
informative.
Thank
you.
I
You
chair
and
thank
you,
simon
and
stephen.
Likewise,
I
really
you
welcome
this
and,
first
personally
to
say
as
councillor
tennyson,
I
really
support
this.
I
It
was
just
I
was
reading
on
one
opinion
that
there
is
a
risk
of
some
investment
houses
or
trusts
that
could,
you
know,
buy
up
shares
that
are
disinvested
and
then
potentially
there
there
is
a
risk
that
you
know
that
they
may
influence
are
slow
on
that
particular
company
in
their
in
their
transition,
our
potential
transition
to
renewables,
arts
and
net
zero,
so
it
was
just
as
I
say
that
was
just
one
opinion
that
I
had
read
on
that
it
would
just
be
interesting,
stephen.
E
I
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
the
evidence
of
how
these
companies
are
transitioning.
At
the
moment,
there's
like
there's
a
briefing
of
the
few
bullet
points
I
think
you
have
and
at
the
moment,
fossil
fuel
companies
invest
less
than
one
percent
of
their
total
capital
expenditure
outside
of
oil
and
gas.
E
They
even
have
known
that
the
need
to
reduce
emissions
since
the
80s,
even
some
of
their
own
research,
showed
that
greenhouse
gases
were
causing
a
severe
problem
and
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
inertia
with
the
these
industries
and
if
you
can
see
it
in
electric
cars,
for
example,
it
was
tesla
who
the
innovators
who
have
begun
to
set
the
pace
and
the
the
incumbent
companies
are
really
too
slow
and
are
playing
catch-up
same
with
the
tekken's
industries.
E
We
all
know
how
you
know:
microsoft
were
too
slow
when
it
came
to
the
internet
and
google
took
over.
So
why
should
we
keep
investing
in
in
in
companies
that
really
are
too
slow
to
change?
And
I
think
it's
so
much.
There's
a
risk
to
the
fund,
there's
a
risk
to
your
pensions,
and
so
why
keep
money
in
there?
Whenever
it's
at
risk
now
in
terms
of
other
companies,
buying
that
up
why
they
may
be
buying
up
an
industry
that
has
no
future,
so
I
don't
understand
why
people
would
want
to
do
that.
I
G
I
J
E
They
are,
but
that
change
was
between
it.
Wasn't
in
the
last
four
years
it
was
over
four
years
between
2015
to
2019.
E
So
I
think
in
the
last
couple
of
years
they
have
slowed
that,
and
they
actually
say
that
they're
going
to
keep
this
point
four
percent,
because
they
feel
they
are
secure
investments.
They
think
that
divestment
doesn't
have
any
effect.
My
hopefully
my
argument
today
helped
you
see
that
divestment
certainly
isn't
a
risk,
it
could
improve
the
the
pension
fund,
and
it
also
is
having
a
massive
impact.
E
The
chairman
of
shell
and
their
annual
report
a
couple
of
years
ago
said
that
if
companies
continue
to
divest,
they
would
have
as
a
significant
risk
to
their
operations.
So
that
is
forcing
that
that
divestment
is
forcing
companies
to
change,
and
the
evidence
of
engagement
over
the
last
15
to
20
years
is
scant
that
it
is
effective.
E
So
I
think
we
do
need
to
use
both,
but
I
think
it's
the
time
has
come
to
divest
from
fossil
fuel
extraction
industry.
I
just
want
to
point
out
it's
it's
purely
extraction.
You
know
the
nilgos
highlights
fermis.
For
example,
I
just
got
the
letter,
but
the
price
gone
up
33
today,
but
anyway
the
we're
not
talking
about
divesting
from
the
likes
of
famous.
You
know:
distribution
companies,
it's
the
extraction
industry,
we're
talking
about
here,
so
we're
not
going
to
impact
northern
ireland
jobs
and
that
kind
of
thing.
E
So
that's
a
very
you
know
it's
a
it's.
It's
not
divestment
as
a
blunt
instrument.
It's
a
very
targeted
type
of
divestment.
We're
talking
about
here.
B
Yes,
thanks
chair
and
thanks
gentlemen
for
coming
along
tonight
and
obviously
I'll
be
honest,
and
I
think
you
you've
given
me
a
wee
bit
of
an
insight
into
what
it's
all
about.
I
think
really
as
well.
Probably
this
world
economy
does
recover
from
coronavirus.
B
I
think
it
is
important
to
ensure
that
we
are
sort
of
going
forward
and
are
responsible
and
and
green
away,
but
supporting
the
sustainable
growth
and
transition,
but
very
interesting
to
hear
what
you
had
to
say,
but
just
to
say
thank
you
and
certainly
lots
of
food
for
thought
tonight.
Thank
you.
K
Thank
you,
chair
and
good
evening
members.
I
take
you
to
4.1.
This
is
a
matter
of
recommendation
to
approve
the
appointment
of
eurofins
as
our
council
public
analyst
and
the
named
persons
as
the
councils
public
analysts
for
the
next
incoming
period
to
make
this
recommendation
to
your
members.
A
Thank
you,
aldermetry
opposed
by
council
baxter,
second,
by
other
victory.
Next
item:
4.2,
entertainment,
nice
and
phased
with
you,
I'm
back
over
to
jillian.
K
Thank
you.
The
recommendation
is
that
the
council
consider
their
correspondence
from
the
departments
of
communities
in
relation
to
reduced
fee
for
environmental,
sorry
for
entertainment,
licensing,
renewal
applications
during
the
period
for
this
current
year,
the
department,
as
part
of
their
measures,
to
support
the
hospitality
sector
in
terms
of
covert
impact,
reduce
the
statutory
fee
down
to
a
nominal
fee
of
one
pound.
That
was
coupled
with
funding
to
the
council
to
reimburse
any
loss
of
income
from
the
environment
or
from
the
entertainment
licensing
phase
for
the
incoming
year
members.
K
Our
council's
estimates
had
been
set
that
the
fees
would
revert
to
the
statutory
fee
and
that
does
bring
in
to
the
council
on
income
of
an
around
45
000
points
per
year.
That
would
perhaps
have
been
less
with
the
impact
of
covert
on
our
venues,
perhaps
not
all
returning
to
the
pre-pandemic.
K
Level
of
entertainment,
the
department
of
communities
are
seeking
the
views
from
all
councils
as
to
whether
the
one
point
nominal
fee
should
continue
members.
We
have
discussed
this
with
our
finance
colleagues
and
they
have
reviewed
the
income
that
was
from
the
department
for
communities
to
councils
in
terms
of
of
the
funding
that
we
received
for
loss
of
income,
and
they
are
are
happy
that
any
loss
of
income
with
remaining
at
the
one
point
will
be
covered
at
within
22.
K
J
Chair,
since
it
all
seems
to
have
fiscally
sound,
I'm
happy
to
propose.
A
A
Next
information
item:
4.3
kaiser's
access
to
daily
flight
tipping
on
the
clean
neighborhood
enforcement.
Anyone
any
questions.
A
L
Sure-
and
thank
you
very
much
and
thanks
jillian
for
your
report,
jillian,
we
have
discussion.
It
was
in
last
month's
minutes
in
this
committee
and
you
did
refer
to
the
clean
neighborhoods
act
and
there
was
a
discussion
in
relation
to
properties,
sort
of
front
gardens,
back
gardens
and
just
general
conditions.
Is
there
any
way
that
we
can
write
to
the
minister,
jillian
and
and
and
try
to
get
this
problem?
L
That
does
seem
to
be
growing
in
in
in
some
areas
that
the
minister
might
consider
this
and
get
it
included
in
the
clean
neighborhoods
acts
to
give
us
some
sort
of
power
that
we
can
act,
because
at
this
moment-
and
I
brought
it
up
at
last
month's
meeting
jillian-
was
that
we
we
seem
to
be
toothless
in
relation
to
what
we
can
do,
and
there
was
a
case
recently
in
tundra,
gay,
where
there
was
vermin,
etc
within
a
property
and
around
a
property
and
there's
been
other
cases
of
that
elsewhere
as
well.
L
So
is.
Is
there
anything
in
your
opinion,
julian
that
that
we
can
do
when,
in
relation
to
that,
to
try
and
sort
of
give
the
give
the
council
some
sort
of
a?
I
don't
know
some
sort
of
par
that
we
we
can.
We
can
enforce
on
on
the
property
owners
to
to
reinstate
or
to
you
know,
refurbish
or
whatever
or
clean
up
or
or
whatever
be
it
be
at
their
backyards,
front,
gardens
or
the
general
condition
of
the
property.
A
K
Thank
you
chair.
Yes,
we
have
picked
up
on
that
action
from
last
month's
committee
and
there
is
a
draft
that
we
have
ready
to
go
to
the
department.
It
probably
would
be
to
the
dira
minister
and
they
are
responsible
for
the
environmental
side
of
our
work.
So
that
is
something
that
we
can
can
do
and
that
is
underway
in
relation
to
to
the
legislation
as
it
is.
It
is
something
which
I
think
I've
said
that
we
had
wanted
to
be
amended
some
time
ago.
K
There
may
be
opportunity
through
the
environment
strategy
that
will
be
going
through
the
assembly.
We
did
reply
with
some
comments
on
that
at
the
end
of
last
month,
so
there
may
be
opportunity
in
there,
because
I
believe
that
strategy
also
includes
a
review
of
some
aspects
of
the
fixed
family
notices
for
litter,
etc.
So
we
will
use
every
opportunity
that
you
have
to
to
bring
that
to
the
fore
we
have
done
in
the
past
and
without
any
success
it
would
require
a
review
of
the
legislation.
K
So
we
will
ask
the
minister
to
to
build
that
in
chair.
If
I
can
just
refer
to
item
4.3
on
to
the
the
report
which
we
presented
for
information
just
importantly,
members,
the
first
paragraph
there
around
the
proposal
to
hold
a
workshop
on
claymore
clean
neighborhood
activities.
So
if
I
can
just
draw
that
specifically
to
members
attention
to
the
dates
thursday,
the
10th
of
february,
you
should
have
received
your
invitation,
6
30..
K
It
will
be
a
packed
and
busy
workshop
in
order
to
convey
the
information
which
members
you've
asked
us
to
provide
to
you
and
also
to
give
you
opportunity
to
meet
with
the
wise
management,
who
will
also
be
in
that
virtual
workshop
and
also
to
deal
with
your
questions.
So
members.
I
would
just
remind
you
of
that
and
the
opportunity
that
we
will
have
to
discuss
these
matters.
I
do
hope
that
we
barry
and
I
will
have
some
information
to
you
in
advance
of
next
thursday,
which
will
help
our
discussions.
So
thank
you,
chair.
A
M
Thank
you
chair,
and
thank
you
jillian
for
that
information.
I
suppose.
Initially
I
had
indicated
to
speak
to,
I
suppose
ask
whether
counselor
nicholson
wanted
to
make
that
a
proposal,
but
jillian
seems
to
be
saying
and
that
she's
content
there
is
a
request
or
a
letter
going
to
be
sent
to
the
minister.
It
was
just
to
back
this
up.
I
mean
I'm
I'm
conscious
of
going
over
old
ground
in
some
respects.
I've
talked
about
this
a
lot
a
number
of
other
countries
have,
but
just
to
kind
of
put
it
in
perspective.
M
We're
not
just
talking
about
landlords
who
just
said
they
couldn't
be
bothered
to
do
it,
we're
talking
about
even
banks
who
have
repossessed
houses
who
are
willing
to
just
let
they
let
these
properties.
You
know
they're,
surrounded
by
houses
and
property
owners
who
look
after
their
gardens
who
who
make
the
effort
to
keep
their
communities
looking
well.
So
we're
talking
about
organizations
we're
talking
about
you
know
property
developers,
we're
talking
about
bad
landlords
as
well,
we're
talking
about
a
lot
of
different
groups
here
on
and
it's
clear
from
maytime
in
council
anyway.
M
It's
clear
that
officers
do
not
feel
that
the
legislation
is
strong
enough
for
them
to
kind
of
push
this
forward
and
deal
with
these
matters.
So
there
is
no
point,
and
I
mean
I
I
I
take
your
pointer,
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
this
meeting
next
week.
It's
going
to
be
a
great
opportunity
for
us
to
talk
about
it,
but
I
am
under
no
illusions
that
the
solution
is
not
to
all
of
our
problems.
M
The
solution
is
not
within
our
power
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
at
every
available
opportunity,
angeliano
said
this
that
the
strongest
possible
message
goes
to
storm
out
to
talbot.
Tell
the
minister
that
that
we
need
more
help,
and
I
mean
we
look
further
on
down
the
agenda
tonight
and
it's
clear.
The
minister
is
aware
in
this
case.
Minister
approach
is
aware
of
you
know
issues
that
affect
the
community
on
a
day-to-day
basis.
This
is
one
of
those
issues.
We
cannot
help
from
this,
so
you
know
initially.
M
As
I
said,
I
was
going
to
propose.
I
asked
country
nicholson,
propose
and
second
and
all
the
rest,
but
if
jillian's
content
that
a
strong
message
has
been
reflected
from
us
about
these
issues,
then
I
am
happy
to
let
it
go
and
I'm
looking
forward
to
next
week.
Thank
you,
chair.
K
Thank
you
chair.
This
is
an
opportunity
to
advise
members
that
the
council
has
been
given
new
statutory
duties
from
today
in
relation
to
two
aspects
of
nicotine
and
smoking,
which
are
aimed
to
protect
young
people
under
the
age
of
18.
K
That
will
be
an
offence
from
today,
and
the
other
is
around
smoking
in
vehicles
with
children,
and
that
has
been
a
long
waited
a
piece
of
legislation
within
northern
ireland,
and
that
also
comes
into
force
today
in
relation
to
the
e-cigarettes.
K
That
will
be
the
responsibility
of
the
council
to
enforce,
and
we
will
do
that
alongside
our
other
work,
that
we
do
in
relation
to
tobacco
products,
and
that
will
be
done
alongside
the
funding
contract
that
we
receive
from
the
public
health
agency
for
tobacco
control,
control,
related
duties
and
set
alongside
our
test
purchase
exercises
and
in
relation
to
the
smoking
of
vehicles
and
cars.
That
is
a
joint
role
with
psni.
K
N
Thank
you,
and
just
to
be
brief
with
you
just
to
get
I'd
write
this,
who
knows,
if
we've
been
contacted
by
parents
who
have
maybe
complained
about
their
kids,
have
got
the
whole
piece
and
and
the
password
they
go
to
complain.
So
if
it's
about
the
shop
or
the
place,
it's
not
a
council,
as
we
reported
through
to
yeah
and
that
just
comes
in
through
the
normal
right
in
here
and
what
parliament
do
we
have
actually
is
define
them
then
or
report
them.
Where
does
that?
N
K
Yes,
happy
to
to
respond
again.
If
the
evidence
comes
from
a
complaint,
we
would
investigate
that
and
take
a
statement,
probably
from
the
the
parent
or
the
family
member,
and
we
would
seek
to
speak
with
the
retailer
who's
doing
this
and
remind
them
of
their
duties.
If
we
had
strong
information,
then
we
could
serve
a
fixed
penalty
notice,
other
than
that
it
would
sit
alongside
our
test
purchasing
rating,
which
we
tried
to
do
a
couple
of
times
of
the
year.
K
So
even
if
we
don't
get
complaints,
then
we
will
target
cert
target
premises
on
that
side
of
it.
So,
yes,
it
is
something
which
would
have
been
complained
about
quite
a
bit
in
the
past
and
we
have
not
got
those
parts
now
we
do.
A
A
proposed
councillor,
baxter
seconded
by
councillor
greenfield
members
known
online
viewers
in
accordance
with
schedule,
six
of
the
local
government
act.
We
are
now
moving
into
confidential
session
of
the
council.
This
means
that
we'll
be
turning
off
public
feed
of
the
meeting.
This
bill
will
be
returned
when
the
meeting
is
restarted.
Can
I
ask
at
please
to
confirm
that
the
faith
is
disconnected.
O
O
A
A
A
A
A
G
A
K
You
will
see
the
item
of
corresponds
in
your
papers
this
evening,
and
I
know
it
is
an
issue
which
many
many
of
you
will
be
in
contact
with
our
officers
about
the
minister
and
his
officials
are
obviously
also
concerned
about
the
rise
in
noise
complaints
and
that
has
been
born
out
through
our
own
experience
here
in
the
council
and
in
this
area
we
have
received
over
the
last
few
years,
an
increase
in
noise
complaints,
but
that
has
also
been
coupled
with
an
increase
in
our
enforcement
action
and
the
issue
of
abatement
notices
in
relation
to
noise
complaints.
K
The
minister
makes
reference
there
to
the
noise
act
and,
in
particular,
asking
councils
why
they
perhaps
aren't
using
the
powers
and
the
noise
act
and
just
really
for
your
own
information.
The
noise
act
tends
to
deal
with
lloyd,
music.
You
know
the
traditional
sort
of
ghetto
blaster
type
noisy
party
in
the
middle
of
the
night.
That
tends
not
to
be
the
profile
of
our
noise
complaints.
Whilst
we
certainly
get
complaints
about
music
and
tv,
the
vast
majority
of
our
noise
complaints
tend
to
be
about
barking
dogs,
and
I
know
that
members.
K
You
appreciate
that
that
is
a
complex
area
to
investigate
and
it
is
difficult
to
prove
nuisance
from
barking
dogs.
So
members,
it's
just
to
give
you
the
opportunity
to
to
have
the
context
of
this,
because
I
know
it
is
an
area
that
that
you
will
be
in
touch
with
us
about
and
also
from
my
perspective
to
to
say
thank
you
to
the
team
involved
in
this.
These
are
complex
issues
involving
neighbors
and
that
is
often
difficult
to
negotiate
one's
way
through.
K
A
Thank
you
jillian
councillor,
greenfield.
N
Thank
you
chair
until
just
one
question
you're
saying
about
it:
it's
mainly
barking
dogs
so
do
come
through
yourselves
in
the
likes
of
the
light
exhausts
and
raising
around
the
time
for
a
while.
It's
issued
quite
a
lot
and
bomb
bridge
entry,
there's
quite
a
lot
of
three
pcsp
and
stuff,
but
just
wondering
is
there
any
remit
under
that
further
something
that
does
keep
cropping
up
but
time
and
time
again,
and
how
does
it
get
dealt
with
supposed
to
be
for
good
question?
Thank
you
sure.
K
Thank
you.
Yes,
my
understand
would
be
that
is
dealt
with
by
psni
under
the
road
or
the
roads
order
and
all
of
the
legislation
that
deals
with
vehicles
and
modification
of
vehicles
and
and
such
like.
It
is
a
difficult
area
where
perhaps
you
get
that
you
know
sitting
in
car
parks
and
revving
engines,
and
things
like
that,
and
I
know
sometimes
there
would
be
maybe
joint
work
done
with
pcsp
on
that
side
of
it.
So
from
our
point
of
view,
thankfully,
that
part
of
the
noise
is
ps,
and
I.
L
And
gameplay
you
jillian-
and
I
I
I
sure
your
your
feelings
in
this
jillian
I've
had
a
number
of
these
and
and
they
they
are
quite
frustrating,
and
I'm
just
a
question
really
would
be
at
the
moment
when,
when,
when
you
do
report,
if
there's
noise,
as
as
you
refer
to
someone
coming
in
late,
having
music
on
etc
and
it's
part
of
a
complex
of
shared
accommodation,
apartments
or
or
flats
or
whatever
and
the
person
who's
doing,
the
complaining,
the
only
advice
seems
to
be
to
them,
is
to
keep
a
diary
of
of
the
events
and
build
a
sort
of
us
a
narrative
up
in
relation
to
that
and
then
a
it,
then
will
maybe
deem
that
sound
equipment's
required
is.
L
Is
there
any
discussions
going
on
with
the
department
in
relation
to
that
to
try
and
sort
of
maybe
simplify
the
the
process?
I
know
you're
gonna
have
a
one-off
incident
person,
get
a
warning
and
turn
the
music
down
or
whatever,
but
there
has
been
cases
that
I've
been
involved
in
and
it
has
become
the
people
just
looked
at
me
as
if
I'm
I'm
I'm
crazy.
L
L
Is
there
any
discussions
to
say
with
the
department
to
try
and
sort
of
find
a
a
better
kind
of
vehicle
to
deal
with
this,
because
I
find
what
we
have
at
the
minute
to
say
it's
clunky
is,
it
would
be
an
understatement,
it's
just
so
sort
of
driven
by
red
tape.
I'd
like
to
get
your
opinion
on
that
jillian.
A
K
Thank
you,
members
and
counselor
nicholson.
We
do
understand
the
frustrations
of
folk
and
the
members
and
dealing
with
with
noise
noise
sits
under
what
we
you
know
call
the
statutory
using
side
of
things
and
strategy.
Nuisance
at
best
is
a
complex
area
of
work
where
we
have
to
establish
a
statutory
nuisance,
and
we
can
only
establish
that
through
a
pattern
really
of
behaviors.
K
So
that
is
where
we
ask
for
the
diary.
What
that
does
is
establish
a
pattern
which
we
then
can
use
for.
I
suppose
a
couple
of
reasons
number
one
to
determine:
when
is
the
best
time?
How
do
we
use
that
to
determine
when
to
put
in
noise
monitoring
equipment?
And
second
thing
is
also
to
build
up
a
picture
of
evidence
which
you
would
use
if
you
go
into
court
in
terms
of
a
criminal
case,
because,
as
you
know,
this
legislation
is
criminal
legislation
and
therefore
it
is
important
that
we
come
with
the
evidence.
K
K
First
of
all,
we
will
of
course,
always
advise
the
alleged
noise
maker
that
we
have
received
complaint
and
we
always
say
if
this
is
a
situation,
and
this
is
the
case,
then
we
would
ask
you
to
be
more
considerate,
so
they
will
always
get
that
initial
warning
as
it
were
around
noise
making.
But
I
do
understand
the
frustrations
of
book,
but
it
is
a
complex
area
which
we
must
establish
nuisance
and
establish
the
evidence
for
that,
and
the
team
worked
very
hard
at
doing
that.
But
I
I
do
understand.
L
Fair,
can
I
get
come
back
there
yeah,
sam
yeah,
thanks
thanks
chad
and
look
thanks
jillian
and
I
totally
like
you
know
I
I
don't
envy
your
team.
They
do.
They
do
a
great
job
because,
like
as
I
say,
they
are
tied
to
the
the
legislation
and-
and
I
understand
that
you
have
to
create
this
sort
of
evidence
base
to
in
order
for
that.
L
If
it
is
a
situation
that
it
can
stand
up
in
in
in
court
or
whatever
so,
but
look
it's
just.
Obviously
I
want
to
bring
that
up
that
you
know
there
has
been
in
my
experience.
You
know
the
time
you
get
to
that
stage.
People
are
ready
for
the
they're
ready
for
the
hills.
You
know
what
I
mean
that
they've
gone
through
this
this
this
terrible
experience
of
of
of
a
noisy
neighbor
and
unfortunately,
as
as
you've
already
said
it
just
takes
that
that
time
to
sort
of
to
deal
with
it.
A
There's
no
further
hands
up.
So
thank
you,
members
for
who
came
to
the
chamber
and
those
at
home,
and
I'd
like
to
thank
carl
and
all
the
officers
here
on
ik
as
well,
for
helping
us
out
and
don't
forget
that
workshop
on
10th
yeah
your
chances
to
ask
and
then
we'll
never
come
back
here,
asking
questions
next
month
about
the
same
thing
all
over
again.
So
just
keep
that
workshop
in
mind.
Thanks
enjoy
the
rest
of
your
night.