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From YouTube: Planning and Zoning Commission – August 2, 2023
Description
Regular meeting of the City of Asheville Planning & Zoning Commission.
Access the agenda and other meeting materials at the City of Asheville website: https://www.ashevillenc.gov/department/city-clerk/boards-and-commissions/planning-and-zoning-commission/
Participate before and during the meeting on our public engagement hub: https://publicinput.com/G0704
A
B
Welcome
everyone
to
the
August,
2nd
2022
meeting
of
the
Planning
and
Zoning
commission
for
the
city
of
Asheville,
Planning
and
Zoning
commission
will
hear
public
comment
on
items
listed
on
the
agenda.
There
are
multiple
ways
to
make
public
comment
in
procure
in
person
leaving
voicemail
by
phone
or
by
email.
All
of
that
information
you
can
find
on
the
agenda,
which,
hopefully
there's
some
at
the
back
of
the
room.
We
will
begin
tonight's.
This
evening's
meeting
with
roll
call
Mr
Palmquist,
chair
archimon,
president
chair.
C
C
Okay,
there
yeah.
B
B
Yeah,
we'll
just
we're
gonna
push
off
the
administrative
approval
of
the
meeting
minutes
from
July
19th
to
the
next
meeting
since
I.
Don't
think
those
guys
so
we'll
move
right
into
the
meat
of
the
agenda.
The
first
item
is
one
that
we
continued
from.
Excuse
me:
the
July
19th
meeting.
It's
a
request
to
conditionally
rezone
property
located
at
one
oak
street
from
central
business
district
CBD
to
Central
business
district
expansion.
Conditional
Zone
properties
are
identified
as
the
pins
listed
in
the
bunco
County
tax
record.
B
C
Thank
you
chair
good
evening.
Commissioners
will
Palmquist
with
planning
Urban
Design
I
will
be
giving
this
shorter
presentation
about
this
conditional
zoning
petition
for
this
project,
known
as
project
Aspire
I
know
we
went
into
it
in
a
lot
of
detail.
The
last
meeting
so
I'll
try
to
give
an
overview
of
the
project
to
kind
of
refresh
everyone's
memories
and
try
to
highlight
the
points
of
change
just
so
we
make
best
use
of
our
time
this
evening.
C
So
this
is
a
conditional
zoning
request
for
three
properties
located
downtown.
You
can
see
here
the
the
aerial
map
showing
the
site
consists
of
three
three
properties:
the
First
Baptist
Church
of
Asheville,
the
YMCA
and
then
the
State
Employees
Credit
Union
Bank.
C
Here's
a
better
view.
You
can
see
the
layout
better.
The
site
itself
consists
about
10
and
a
half
acres.
It
is
in
the
CBD
It's
a
combination
of
the
tallest
height
zones
in
the
intermediate
height
zones.
The
property
where
the
bank
is
currently
located
is
in
the
hotel
overlay
and
all
frontages,
including,
except
for
Central
on
the
west,
is
a
key
pedestrian
street,
so
Oak
and
Woodfin
to
the
Southwest
College
Street.
C
C
So,
as
we
went
over
last
time,
this
is
a
a
fairly
large
project.
C
So
in
total
it's
about
1.1
million
square
feet
of
overall
construction,
we're
specifying
ranges
of
uses
without
specific
numbers,
so
the
residential
use
would
be
a
minimum
of
400
units
and
a
maximum
of
650
units.
You
can
see
the
ranges
in
the
community
recreational
space
which
will
be
the
the
new
YMCA
use,
Office
use
commercial
use
and
a
hotel
with
between
165
and
300
guest
rooms.
C
C
This
is
a
different
view,
showing
kind
of
the
the
form
and
scaled
the
buildings
so
building
two
as
it's
called,
is
the
hotel
use,
which
is
the
tallest
tallest,
building
at
20
stories
and
essentially
building
one.
Three
and
five
are
all
about
six
stories
in
hotel
four,
which
is
on
the
corner
of
college
and
Oakland.
Woodfin
street
is
proposed
at
about
19
stories,
and
you
can
see
the
mix
of
uses
there.
The
blue
is
the
the
hotel
use.
C
Orange
is
residential,
the
kind
of
teal
or
blue
is
is
office,
and
then
the
red
is
the
the
commercial
space.
So,
as
mentioned
last
time,
this
would
be
a
phased
project,
so
essentially,
what's
being
proposed.
C
So
this
is
kind
of
showing
that
one
change
to
the
phase
one
is
that
the
project
is
committing
to
doing
a
range
of
100
to
200
units
in
in
less
commercial
space.
C
The
last
meeting
I
think
they
were
still
trying
to
refine
that
and
weren't
committed
to
to
one
programming
programming
versus
the
other,
but
they
are
going
to
be
doing
the
residential
component
in
phase
one
with
some
commercial
in
in
Phase
or
in
that
phase
as
well
phase
two
is
very
much
geared
towards
residential,
but
there's
still
very
substantial
office
in
the
commercial
component
in
there
as
well.
C
So
the
slide,
this
slide
is
just
trying
to
break
down
the
review
process
a
little
bit
more
essentially
as
discussed.
The
the
approval
that's
being
sought
through
this
conditional
zoning
process
is
really
a
conceptual
master
plan
where
the
you
know,
specific
details,
the
specific
building,
Heights
number
of
uses
and
that
kind
of
thing
would
be
determined
at
Future
phases,
and
it
would
be
reviewed
against
this
adopted
master
plan
for
General
Conformity
with
that
site
plan
and
also
the
project
conditions
that
are
being
reviewed
as
part
of
this
conditional
zoning
as
well.
C
The
project
would
not
need
to
return
the
city
council
if
it
was
compatible
with
this
approved
conditional
zoning,
but
it
would
return
to
seek
approval
by
the
designer
view
committee,
which
would
evaluate
the
project
against
its
design
guidelines
for
downtown.
It
would
also
seek
a
ministerial
site
plan
review
by
this.
This
board,
the
Planning
and
Zoning
Commission.
C
Some
of
the
language
for
that
condition
of
how
exactly
the
drc's
review
would
be
administered
has
has
changed
to
be
a
little
more
clear
about
their
role
and
the
types
of
aspects
of
the
project
that
they
would
not
necessarily
be
be.
Changing
so
essentially
that
the
drc's
review
would
be
mostly
limited
to
design
and
appearance
related
items
and
we're
not
would
not
reduce
the
height
square
footage
or
mass
of
any
structure
or
materially
affect
any
requirements.
C
Specifications
building
setback,
setback,
building,
step
back
setbacks,
density
or
siding
within
the
overall
context
established
by
this
conditional
zoning
ordinance.
So,
essentially,
what
would
be
approved
through
this
process
would
be
codified
and
the
design
review
committee's
review
be
more
about
the
design
and
appearance
with
that
in
mind.
C
So
I'm,
going
to
a
lot
of
this
talks,
a
lot
about
the
setbacks,
the
step
backs,
which
are
the
building
articulation.
C
So,
regarding
the
proposed
Transportation
Network
around
the
site,
new
sidewalks
and
new
bike
facilities
are
proposed
as
part
of
this
project,
so
the
new
sidewalks
are,
above
above
and
beyond
the
minimum
requirement
of
10
foot
wide
sidewalks
and
would
basically
exist
as
11
foot
wide
sidewalks
on
Charlotte
Street
and
14
feet
wide
sidewalks
on
College
Street.
Those
would
have
tree
grates
integrated
into
the
sidewalk
to
fulfill
the
street.
True
requirements,
College
Street,
would
also
have
a
eight
foot
wide
bus,
stop
area.
C
Oak
and
Woodfin
Street
would
be
proposed
to
maintain
more
or
less
the
existing
character
of
today,
which
is
that
of
a
planting
strip,
in
this
case,
seven
feet
wide
with
a
15
foot
wide
sidewalk
and
then
Central
Avenue
would
have
a
20
foot
wide
sidewalk
with
tree
grates,
which
staff
funds
is
an
important
component,
since
that
building
is
pretty
substantial
in
height
along
Central
Avenue
sidewalk's
internal
to
the
site
and
not
within
the
public
right-of-way
would
be
a
minimum
of
10
feet.
C
The
off
street
bike
facility
would
basically
be
a
minimum,
mostly
six
feet
wide,
but
a
minimum
of
five
feet
wide.
At
certain
pinch
points
in
in
the
overall
cross
section
available
and
it
would
exist
on
Charlotte
and
college
streets,
so
essentially
it
would
help
to
help
bridge
where
the
Charlotte
street
bike
lane
ends
north
of
the
interstate
and
also
connect
through
to
the
existing
bike
facilities
on
College
streets,
College
Street
as
well.
C
So
some
of
the
project
conditions
that
the
applicants
have
basically
agreed
to
as
part
of
the
discussion
with
different
different
staff
include
that
a
traffic
impact
analysis
will
be
required
and
it'll
be
conducted
through
the
typical
ncdot
process,
and
the
project
is
required
to
implement
any
recommendations
identified
for
that
Tia.
That
would
be
required
as
as
part
of
the
parameters
of
that
study.
In
addition
to
that,
there
are
some
additional
steps.
The
projects
applicants
have
agreed
to
to
help
mitigate
any
potential
other
concerns
that
might
fall
outside
of
this
CIA.
C
That
would
be
mitigating
and
analyzing
the
access
points
to
the
projects
and
and
to
show
that
they're
not
negatively,
impacting
adjacent
intersections
so
essentially
not
backing
up
from
different
access
points
into
other
intersections
around
the
site,
a
consideration,
the
freight
and
Service
delivery
and
how
that
would
could
be
minimized
to
impact
adjacent
roadways
as
well.
The
consideration
of
a
transportation
demand
Management
program
to
discourage
single
occupancy
vehicle
usage
when
accessing
the
site,
and
also
the
evaluation
of
improvements
to
The
Pedestrian
connectivity
Network,
including
the
consideration
of
new
crosswalks
as
necessary,
I.
C
Think
that's
going
to
be
an
important
consideration
that
at
this
phase,
given
kind
of
the
the
minimal
ish
design
in
this
conceptual
phase,
we
don't
know
exactly
where
the
major
entrances
are
to
these
buildings.
We
don't
know
where
those
kind
of
Desire
lines
are
to
cross
so
where
those
crosswalks
end
up
to
connect
to
the
rest
of
downtown
is
going
to
be
a
really
important
component
for
the
success
of
the
area.
Success
of
the
project.
C
Some
additional
project
conditions
are
that
a
minimum
of
20
percent
of
the
residential
units
in
both
phases
will
be
designated
affordable
to
those
at
or
below,
80
percent
Ami,
and
for
phase
two
there's
a
commitment
that
20
percent
of
the
affordable
units
would
accept
housing,
Choice
vouchers.
If
that
phase
does
not
end
up,
including
any
low-income
housing
tax
credit
units,
there's
a
condition
regarding
the
ground
floor,
uses
of
the
buildings
which
are
shown
in
a
conceptual
way
on
the
site
plan
drawings.
C
Finally,
a
project
commits
to,
of
course,
meeting
the
requirements
for
storm
water,
which
will
be
based
on
the
current
conditions
of
the
site,
which
is
typical,
but
also
that
the
project
will
utilize
greens,
storm
water
infrastructure,
including
devices
such
as
rain,
Gardens,
green
roofs,
underground
detention,
Etc
to
treat
a
minimum
of
20
percent
of
the
Project's
requirements
for
storm
water
treatment.
C
Last
couple
slides
about
the
project
itself:
these
are
the
required
technical
modifications.
So
this
is
where
the
project
is
not
proposing
to
meet
the
code
AS
written
in
the
CBD
form
code
and
also
the
hotel
overlay
for
the
hotel
use.
C
So
regarding
regarding
the
CBD
form
code,
the
project
is
proposing
greater
setbacks
than
zero
feet
in
the
sole
lab
for
an
enhanced
public
realm
and
streetscape
things
like
water,
sidewalks
and
that
sort
of
thing
the
building
is
not
proposing
to
have
a
step
back,
which
is
required
at
the
street
Wall
height
along
Central
Avenue,
for
about
10
feet
back
across
two-thirds
of
that
facade,
so
they're
seeking
relief
from
that
requirement.
C
They're
also
seeking
relief
for
the
maximum
horizontal
wall
dimensions
for
buildings
above
75
feet
in
height,
so
those
stories
that
are
taller
than
75
feet
are
typically
limited
to
145
feet,
linear
distance
in
any
direction.
The
project
is
proposing
to
have
floor
plates
much
larger
than
that
that
typical
maximum,
as
you
can
see,
detail
below
per
building.
C
This
Project's
been
reviewed
by
multiple
Boards
of
commissions,
which
is
typical
for
a
downtown
project.
It
was
approved
the
conditions
at
the
technical,
Review
Committee.
It
was
reviewed
informally
by
the
design,
Review
Committee,
multimetal,
Transportation
Commission,
and
the
downtown
Commission
notes
about
those
reviews
are
provided
in
the
staff
report.
C
The
project
was
reviewed
and
approved
with
conditions
at
the
May
18th
design,
review
committee
meeting
and
was
reviewed
by
this
board
at
the
July
19th
Planning
and
Zoning
commission
meeting,
where
it
was
continued
to
this
meeting
date
tonight.
C
Just
to
reiterate
these
were
the
conditions
of
the
drc's
approval.
These
cover
kind
of
a
wide
range
of
aspects,
including
the
master
plan,
conceptual
review
of
the
projects,
as
well
as
helping
to
delineate
some
of
their
expectations
for
the
future
level.
Two
phases
of
the
project
when
it
comes
back
for
that
next
round,
with
more
detailed
plans
and
designs.
C
So
just
to
kind
of
consider
that
the
project
is
is
meeting
or
exceeding
a
number
of
these
conditions,
including
the
corporation
of
or
including
exceeding
the
minimum
requirements
for
things
such
as
sidewalks
incorporating
Marines
stormwater
infrastructure,
protecting
as
many
trees,
as
is
possible.
C
Other
things
relate
to
more
of
the
future
review
of
the
projects
such
as
the
buildings,
pedestrian
scale
articulation
and
engagement,
and
the
street
wall
step
back
relief
to
that
being
being
granted
with
the
idea
that
building
will
still
be
articulated
in
the
streetwolds
slowly
activated,
and
it
would
still
be
done
at
a
pedestrian
scale,
type
environment.
B
Thank
you
very
much.
Mr
Palmquist,
any
of
the
Commissioners
have
any
questions
right
now
for
staff.
D
Thank
you
will
and
thank
you
Commissioners
for
your
time
this
evening
and
continuance
from
two
weeks
ago.
I
will
keep
my
comments
briefed
tonight,
because
I
do
feel
we
had.
You
heard
from
me
enough
in
opening
remarks.
Last
time,
I'm
happy,
of
course,
to
respond
to
any
questions
and
expand
on
any
project
elements.
D
Well,
I'm
glad
you
don't
bill
by
the
hour,
because
in
the
last
couple
weeks,
we've
continued
to
to
coordinate
quite
quite
extensively
and
I.
Think
we've
covered
a
lot
of
ground
in
reviewing
the
various
changes
within
the
project
conditions.
I
I
feel
that
we
are
aligned
based
on
our
conversations
and
feedback.
We've
received
continue
to
want
to
express
the
spirit
of
collaboration
for
project
Aspire
and
the
City
of
Asheville.
D
I
would
like
to
emphasize
the
what
will
did
highlight
Echo.
What
will
already
mentioned
regarding
a
shift
in
the
plan
in
terms
of
our
planning
for
phase
one
since
we
last
met,
and
that
was
to
have
a
renew,
have
a
sole
focus
on
solving
for
and
delivering
multi-family
housing
with
a
20
affordability
element
for
Workforce
and
middle
income,
housing
included.
D
You
know
that
we've
heard
along
the
way
that
this
is
very
important,
not
just
in
this
room,
but
also
from
the
community,
and
while
we
wanted
to
maintain
some
flexibility
to
do
additional
commercial
uses
in
phase
one,
we
recognize
we
have
that
flexibility
in
phase
two
and
we'll
also
adopt
the
priority
of
delivering
housing
for
phase
one.
D
As
kind
of
a
closing
remark,
the
from
for
now
I
do
want
to
recognize
both
the
YMCA,
the
downtown
YMCA
and
First
Baptist
Church
of
Asheville,
who
have
members
in
the
room
tonight
I,
don't
think
they
understood
what
they
were
getting
into
when
we
started
this
project
and
I
hope
they.
They
have
continued
to
appreciate
it
along
the
way,
but
I
I
also
know
that
they're
trying
to
run
wonderful
organizations
and
grow
them
in
this
downtown
community,
while
putting
on
their
hats
as
real
estate
developers
Community
developers
at
the
same
time.
D
So
without
their
roles,
this
aspirational
project
would
not
be
feasible,
so
I
do
want
to
just
recognize
them
for
putting
their
property
where
they're,
where
their
mission
lies
and
and
to
take
on
the
the
challenges
of
delivering
such
things
as
affordable
housing
in
both
phase
one
and
phase
two
in
other
aspirational
projects,
so
I
will
hold
it
there,
but
but
happy
to
expand
on
on
anything
else,
as
our
conversation
continues.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
B
B
B
B
We
will
close
for
public
comment,
I'm
just
going
to
call
it
527,
so
I
definitely
want
to
thank
the
development
team.
You
know
certainly
I
think
there's
I
mentioned
at
the
last
meeting.
There's
been
a
great
collaboration
back
and
forth
amongst
commissioner
staff.
The
development
through
some
of
the
aspects
of
this
project
and
I
certainly
appreciate
the
the
development
team.
The
YMCA
First
Baptist
Church,
for,
for
you
know,
working
through
this
I
still
have
a
few
concerns.
F
I'll
just
make
a
general
comment
that
the
updates
to
the
project
conditions
feel
like
a
fair
and
accurate
reflection
of
our
conversation
at
the
last
meeting,
appreciate
the
collaboration
between
staff
and
the
development
team
to
quickly
put
together
a
lot
of
feedback
in
a
short
amount
of
time,
in
particular,
the
affordability
Provisions
read
more
sensibly
and
clear
more
clearly
the
flexibility
you
know
this
might
be
something
that
you're
going
to
mention,
but
the
the
ground
floor
space
continues
to
have
an
out
that
it
might
not
be
active
in
an
area
that
we
talked
about,
but
I.
F
G
I
yeah
I
appreciate
everyone
Gathering
feedback
over
the
past
couple
weeks.
I
still
am
a
little
disappointed
about
the
technical
modifications
based
on
the
hotel
overlay,
but
obviously
I
don't
want
to
I,
don't
want
to
stop
something.
That's
like,
overall,
a
good,
a
good
plan
for
us
to
work
from
so
so.
H
I
think
it's,
my
only
comment
was
making
sure
he
mentioned.
Affordability,
piece
was,
was
there
and
you
stand
by
what
you
would
you
say,
you're
gonna
do.
B
B
That
this
project
needs
to
find
the
right
words.
It
needs
to
reactivate
Charlotte,
Street
and
really
needs
to
integrate
downtown
back
into
and
I
see
this
project
as
being
able
to
start
to
do
that
start
to
put
back
things
that
were
there
decades
ago,
and
for
me
that
activation,
we
had
a
little
bit
of
discussion
in
the
pre-meaning.
For
me
personally
and
I
will
also
say
this.
B
As
someone
who
bikes
around
town
quite
a
bit
that
activation
on
the
street
front
for
me,
is
more
important
than
the
cycle
track
and
I
am
probably
in
the
minority.
Even
with
my
I
also
sit
on
multimodal,
probably
in
the
minority,
with
my
multimode
cohorts
as
well
on
that,
mostly
because
I
am
of
the
opinion
that
one
day
ncdot
will
wake
up
and
change
the
road
and
and
I
just
think
that
activation
of
the
street
front
is
vitally
important
along.
A
J
B
I
would
rather
say
no
that
bike
Lane's
not
worth
it
further
into
the
property,
because
it's
already
exists.
I
think
the
biggest
for
me
still
is
the
DRC
piece.
B
B
Poppleton
isn't
going
to
build
this
building.
Sorry
David
I
forgot
your
last
name,
but.
B
Not
going
to
build
the
building
or
design
the
building,
someone
else
is
going
to
do
this,
and
I
certainly
want
to
have
that
flexibility
built
in,
but
I
also
understand
that
our
current
Udo
is
lacking.
I.
Think
in
some
of
the
things
that
we
now
want
to
see
happen
along,
say:
Charlotte's.
Excuse
me,
Central
Avenue
is
the
big
one
for
me,
because.
B
Street
that
is
not
listed
as
a
key
pedestrian
screen
and
and
I.
Think
Central
Avenue
is
the
one
that
I
really
start
to
feel
like
the
DRC
needs
to
be
able
to
have
that
ability
to
comment
and
require
things
regarding
step
back
the
how
that
pedestrian
and
Frontage
occurs
and
have
some
more
purview
over
that,
and-
and
so
that's
really
kind
of
where
my
big
heartache
is
right
now,
otherwise,.
A
B
It's
something
that
Mac
Dennis
said
this
is
an
audacious
project.
It's
transformational,
I
think
it's
wonderful
I
am
hopeful
that
passed
tonight's
meeting
and
and
this
commission
and
moving
on
to
council
and
then
in
the
intervening
years.
My
concerns
will
be
you
know,
assuaged,
so
yeah
I
think
that's
that's
kind
of
where
I'm
standing
with
it
right
now.
The
one
other
thing
I
would
say
is
I
really
would
like
to
see
16
the
condition
16d
require
crosswalks
on
Oak
and
Woodfin,
not
just
the
that
language
seems
a
little
iffy.
B
B
I,
don't
even
know
if
it
should
get
into.
Is
it
a
speed
table
design?
Is
it
Hive
is,
but
that
it
just
needs
to
be
a
little
more
clear
that
there
will
be
crosswalks
at
those
key
pedestrian?
However,
this
site
plan
ultimately
exactly
plays
out
where
those
building
entrances
are,
but
there
are
crosswalks
there.
I
feel
like
that.
D
language
is.
D
Joe
just
to
react
specifically
to
some
of
some
of
your
recent
comments,
starting
with
the
last
one,
very
much
open
to
improve
language
for
the
commitment
for
crosswalks
I
think
our
intent
is
to
work
with
staff
to
to
to
find
where
they
should
be
placed
because
of
the
the
plan.
We'll
still
have
some
moving
elements
and
where
they
want.
We
want
optimal
placement,
but
we
see
that
as
the
whole
Woodfin
and
Oak,
especially,
and
how
it
interacts
with
with
Central
in
the
surrounding
areas,
in
the
project
and
across
the
street.
D
D
We
share
your
concerns
on
Charlotte
Street
and
we
we
think
that
and
hope
that
dot
will
improve,
that
whole
Corridor
for
the
sake
of
downtown
and
safety
and
again
and
I.
Think
it's
similar
to
Central
that
we
are
flexible
or
we
have
been
flexible
to
work
with
what
the
city,
what
the
community
wants
there.
D
We
can't
do
it.
We
can't
do
everything
because
of
limited
space,
but
we
will
prioritize
what
you
ask
us
to
prioritize
for
Charlotte
if
it's
cycle
Trek
in
an
expanded
right-of-way
or
if
it's
commercial
activated
space
for
again,
we
want
to
maintain
that
we
want
to
be
reactive
to
to
your
requests
on
on
one
scenario
versus
the
other
and
in
in
central
also
and
I
I.
D
Think
just
as
a
global
note-
and
you-
you
may
understand
this
already
from
our
past
discussions
and
the
conditions
but
I
believe
along
every
street
Frontage,
we've
encroached
to
expand
right
away
onto
private
property
to
to
make
room
for
expanded,
sidewalks
beyond
the
minimum,
in-cycle
facilities,
so
bike
facilities
where
appropriate,
and
that
includes
Central
Avenue,
because
we've
heard
it
from
every
com.
Every
meeting
that
we've
attended.
D
We
want
that
to
be
a
place
for
people.
We
don't
want
it
to
feel
like
a
canyon,
that's
uncomfortable
and
so
hopefully
expanding
the
sidewalk,
pushing
10
feet
or
or
I,
don't
know
the
exact
Dimension,
but
into
our
private
property
to
make
sure
we
can
fit
that
expanded,
right-of-way
experience.
D
That
is
why
I
think
the
the
exception
for
no
step
back
on
that
building
specifically
is
is
important
to
the
Project's
success
because
it's
already
being
removed
now,
if,
if
we,
if
that
is
an
area
that
you
want
further
study
on,
if
we
com
you
know,
maybe
it's
a
15-foot
right-of-way
absolutely
we
can
revert
to
some
previous
versions
of
our
model
where
we
had
a
five
foot
step
back,
for
example,
so
I
I
think
we
are.
D
We
are
open
to
to
that
level
of
collaboration,
but
we'll
defer
to
to
you
know,
staff
recommendations
and
commission
approval
on
on
those
elements.
B
D
B
Is
is
where
I
get
with
that
condition?
Three
language
it
in
my
mind,
still
takes
away
a
little
bit
of
the
purview
of
DRC
and
I
guess.
For
me,
Central
is
not
necessarily
just
about
the
building
step
back,
but
given
the
grade
change
from
Woodfin
down
towards
240,
knowing
that
there's
20
some
something
feet
of
change
and.
I
B
K
E
F
A
L
L
L
Of
I
would
say
this
self-deprecatingly
dumb
boxes
on
a
plan
right
that
those
aren't
the
final
envelope
exactly
that
somebody
then
is
just
going
to
dress
up
and
DRC
only
can
say
well,
I
want
Windows
here
there.
There
is
room
in
that
language
if
we
were
feeling
like
for
them
to
have
some
some
leeway,
defining
Corners,
more
articulating
Corners
I.
Think
one
of
the
things
that
Kim
had
brought
up
in
the
past
was
you
know
even
the
corner
at
College
in
Charlotte.
You
know
we
addressed
the
comment
of
like
well.
L
Let's
make
that
an
articulated
massing
an
articulated
corner,
it's
not
perfect,
and
it
would
become
more
perfect
through
design
iterations
in
the
future,
and
that
would
be
in
part
with
DRC
matter
of
fact,
all
of
our
Corners.
You
could
go
around.
All
of
these
we've
articulated
the
corners,
but
those
aren't
you
know
final
designs,
and
we
would
anticipate
that
again.
Our
goal
with
the
language
was
to
give
that
kind
of
room
and
maybe
you're
reading
it
in
a
way
that
we
weren't
seeing
that
didn't
do
that.
L
So
that's
just
a
little
response.
I
think
to
the
few
comments.
G
Can
you
can
you
explain
your
logic
on
that?
One
more
time.
G
Along
the
street
side,
facade
for
the
parking
garage
running
on
Charlotte,
Street
and
associated
with
the
hotel
use
where
this
would
otherwise
be
required
at
a
minimum
depth
of
20
feet.
So
you're,
basically
saying
you,
don't
want
you're
not
going
to
put
any
sort
of
storefront
at
the
parking
garage.
No.
L
It's
the
opposite,
we're
saying
that's
it
yeah,
and
maybe
that
we
State
further
up
we're
asking
relief
from
that
part
of
the
code
that
says
you
have
to
have
exactly
20-foot
occupiable.
What
we
stayed
under
the
section
that
describes
each
Street
section
says
that
at
Charlotte
we
will
put
in
good
all
good
effort
to
put
a
liner
there.
If
at
all
possible,
it
would
have
storefronts
articulation
material
differentiations
in
in
all
of
those.
Basically,
an
articulated
pedestrian
scale
activated
facade
along.
F
What's
important
is
that
the
developer
has
the
flexibility
to
be
relieved
from
the
technical
modifications.
Other
conditions
can
then
further
impose.
You
know,
are
kind
of
adding
back
a
good
faith.
It's
not
you
know.
The
code
is
a
requirement,
so
we're
exempting
them
from
a
requirement
and
then
incorporating
language
in
eight,
a
one
yeah.
L
Because
I
think
it's
two
where
we
describe
what
we
would
be
doing,
which
I
guess
you're
saying
it's
kind
of
in
Conflict
we're
just
saying
we're
not
doing
it
there
and
I
I!
Think
20,
and
maybe
that's
where
20
is
getting
convoluted,
is
initially
pulling
out
the
sections
of
your
code
that
we're
asking
for
an
exception
or.
F
And
then
yeah
8A
is
like
well
and
here's
how
or
here
you
know
it's
like
so
we're
asking
for
an
exception
from
the
strict
application
of
the
active
ground
floor
use
in
the
hotel
overlay.
But
here
is
our
proposed
approach,
so
it
is
confusing
but
I.
You
know,
I
think
it's
a
fair
assessment
I
think
it's
a
fair
statement
of
what
the
intent
of
the
development
is
right.
L
Because
number
five,
for
example,
if
you
go
back
up
to
eight,
we
say
we're
going
to
treat
you
know
we
will
activate
75
percent
of
commercial
uses
all
along
the
facade,
so
50
in
regards
to
the
hotel,
and
so
you
would
see
that
same
conflict
with
number
five
there
and
number
five
here
was
just
calling
out
the
fact
that
we're
asking
to
admitted
some
25.
G
B
Miss
Ashley
I'm,
going
to
lean
on
you,
do
I
mean
Here's,
my
thought:
do
we
need
twenty
five
and
six,
because
we,
because
up
there
at
eight,
essentially
addresses
both
of
those
it's
it's
like
commissioner,
Barton
just
said:
we're
eliminate
we're
giving
them
the
exception
to
it,
but
then
we're
saying
what
the
exception
is.
It's
kind
of
this
yeah
yeah
well
I
mean
and.
I
B
C
Is
kind
of
something
that
the
project
is
committing
to
that's
separate
from
what's
required,
and
some
of
these
ground
floor
uses
except
for
windows
are
not
really
a
requirement
in
any
of
the
buildings
except
for
the
the
hotel
building.
So
this
was
a
way
to
try
to
codify
what
they
were
generally
showing
on
the
site
plans
so
that.
C
Some
certainty
that
there
will
be
some
ground
floor
activation
on
the
streets
for
all
the
buildings,
regardless
of
the
use
and
that
for
Charlotte
Street,
given
limited
space
and
and
staff's
direction,
to
focus
more
on
the
cycle
track
and
use
that
space
to
that
purpose,
that
some
of
these
things
could
be
met
with
different
design,
treatments,
storefronts
Windows
materials.
We're
number
20
is
for
hotels
and
that
20-5
and
six
are
they're
very
explicit
that
their
view
up
required
in
a
otherwise
would
be
required
to
be
a
separate
occupiable.
Storefront,
that's
yeah!
C
A
L
B
I
E
B
B
E
F
F
If
the
traffic
study
says
crosswalk
goes
here,
they
got
to
put
it
there,
so
I
feel
good
about
the
language.
I
know
it's
complex,
but
I
think
you
know,
there's
there's
some
fine
tuning
and
tweaking
it's
a
very
complex
set
of
conditions,
but
I
think
you
all
have
done
a
great
job,
collaborating
on
getting
it.
There.
A
B
B
B
B
Here,
in
other
words,
you
know
these
buildings
are
this
already,
but
it's
it's
setting
a
little
more
firm,
firm
boundaries
on
what
they
have
the
ability
to
adjust
within.
D
I
think
it's
very
tough
to
to
capture
that
that
type
of
you
know
this
gray
area
that
goes
between
concept
and
design
and
and
I'm
hoping
you
know,
we
did
spend
a
fair
amount
of
time
and
I
think
you've
spent
a
fair
amount
of
time
with
that
language
too,
and
that's
appreciated,
but
we've
had
both
staff
and
and
our
team,
our
full
team
legal
included
to
help
develop
this
language
to
match
the
intent,
but
provide
for
some
flexibility
that
we
think
is
due
to
to
the
DRC
and
one
of
the
languages
that
you
know
if
you're
talking
about
a
five
percent
I
think
that
can
be
managed
more
appropriately
with
materially
affecting
you
know.
D
You
know
these
conditions,
and
so
you
know
if,
if
there's
a
design
element,
that's
appropriate
to
to
address
in
that
setting-
which
you
know
all
design
will
be
much
more
appropriate
to
in
a
level
two.
But
as
long
as
we
can
confidently
I
think
language
stands
now,
providing
enough
flexibility
and
I
suggest
we.
You
know
we
continue
to
in
the
next
couple
weeks
before
Council.
D
If
I
understood
correctly,
what
process
can
be
the
other
sections
that
we've
discussed
and
where
we're
Clarity
needs
to
be
introduced
with
referencing
or
or
refining
some
some
of
the
language
according
to
staff,
absolutely
but
I
think
the
intent
that
we've
developed
for
three
specifically
is
is
very,
very
much
represented
by
the
language
currently.
L
I
L
Up
your
a
lot
of
your
design
reviews
are
they're
not
non-mandatory,
and
for
the
architectural
team
to
follow
everything.
You
say
where
this
language
is
stronger
for
the
the
developer
up
front,
saying
we
voluntarily
comply,
apply,
accepting
drc's
ability
to
review
these
buildings
and
give
us
feedback
which
we
will
Implement
so
they've
kind
of
given
a
that.
L
A
C
F
C
F
And
I
think
you
know,
we
would
need
to
provide
the
flexibility
for
DRC
to
do
something
and
the
avenue
to
do
that
would
be
under
14
D.
The
20-foot
sidewalk
personally
I
feel
like
a
20-foot.
Sidewalk
does
achieve
a
better
pedestrian
realm,
whereas
step
backs
sometimes
achieve
the
desired
effect.
So
I
like
this
as
written
but
I,
do
think
if
we
were
to
give
DRC
more
purview.
We'd
have
to
build
in
you
know,
between
10
to
10
to
20
foot
sidewalk
under.
K
L
E
I
F
I'm
ready
to
make
a
motion
I
moved
to
approve
the
conditional
zoning
request
for
the
properties
located
at
one
oak
street,
from
central
business
district
CBD
to
Central
business
district
expansion,
conditional
zones
CBD
exp
and
find
that
the
request
is
reasonable
is
in
the
public.
Interest
is
consistent
with
the
city's
comprehensive
plan
and
meets
the
development
needs
of
the
community.
B
We
have
a
motion
in
a
second
I,
just
if
I
may,
commissioner
Barton
make
one
slight
comment
to
that
that
the
developer
and
staff
continue
to
work
on
language
around
these
conditions
that
we've
discussed
this
evening.
Just
to
make
sure
that
that
is
clear
in
our
motion.
Is
that
something
that
you
would
support.
F
F
A
I
B
I
F
B
We
are
going
to
move
along
to
the
next
item
on
the
agenda.
It
is.
This
is
actually
coming
back
to
us.
This
is
I
believe
a
year
and
a
half
ago
now
a
request
to
amend
the
conditional
zoning
ordinance
ordinance
number
4935
for
property
located
at
339-343
and
357
West
Haywood
Street
to.
B
To
the
site
plan
number
of
dwelling
units
and
the
extent
of
the
conditional
zoning
properties
are
identified.
As
the
pins
noted
in
the
agenda,
property
owners
are
West,
Haywood,
Street,
Apartments,
LLC
and
bhh
Asheville
LLC
applicant
contact
is
John,
Canard
and
planner
coordinating.
You
is
Will
pomquist.
C
Thank
you,
chair
and
I
will
point
out
our
generous
llama
of
snacks
to
keep
everyone
fueled
through
this
evening.
So
chips
granola
bars,
popcorn.
Whatever
you
want.
This
is
a
conditional
zoning
Amendment
petition
for
a
project.
It's
called
the
West
Hayward
Street
Apartments.
C
C
Two
of
the
three
Parcels
are
currently
zoned
under
a
prior
conditional
zoning
ordinance
4935
adopted
in
February
22nd
2022.
Essentially,
that
was
for
a
46
unit,
four
to
five
story:
apartment
building
on
two
of
those
properties.
Since
that
time,
the
project
has
been
revised
to
include
a
third
property
to
the
Northeast
on
West
Haywood
Street,
which
is
currently
Zone
CB1
through
the
additional
property.
C
The
Project's,
proposing
a
slightly
fewer
number
of
residential
units
and
overall,
less
tall
building
as
a
result
of
having
more
room
to
work
within
the
site,
so
essentially,
what's
being
proposed,
is
an
amendment
to
that
existing
conditional
zoning
and
applying
it
to
a
third
site.
That
was
not
part
of
that
original
proposal
a
year
and
a
half
ago,
future
land
use
of
those
properties
is
downtown
and
no
change,
and
that
would
be
required.
C
So
this
is
the
site
plan.
Here
you
can
see
the
building
in
the
dark
gray.
It's
a
three
three
to
four
story:
building
three
stories
in
the
front:
four:
in
the
rear,
where
the
site
slopes
back
consists
of
41
residential
dwelling
units.
All
of
those
dwelling
units
are
proposed
to
be
affordable
at
those
earning
80
percent
or
below
Ami
and
perpetuity
37
of
those
units
would
be
reserved
for
housing,
Choice
vouchers,
so
I
think.
C
If
you
compare
the
numbers
to
the
last
project,
it
looks
less
affordable
than
the
prior
version,
but
essentially
the
the
developer
is
trying
to
maintain
some
flexibility
so
as
not
to
either
turn
away
or
displace
residents
as
they
make
more
income.
So
that's
why
the
80
Ami
number
is
is
used,
but
then
a
significant
number
of
those
units
would
be
reserved
for
housing,
Choice
vouchers,
which
is
obviously
a
very
significant,
affordable
affordability
levels.
C
Other
aspects
of
the
site
includes
two
separate
parking
areas
accessed
via
two
separate
curb
Cuts.
There
are
33
parking
spaces
proposed
total
five
foot
wide
sidewalks
with
the
five
foot
wide
planting
strip
are
proposed,
as
is
required
in
the
CB2
zoning
districts.
A
new
crosswalk
on
Haywood
street
at
the
intersection
of
Hilliard
ABS
proposed
as
well,
and
there
is
some
additional
supportive
programming,
including
this
project.
So
there
would
be
a
community
space
to
to
provide
some
support
for
the
tenants
would
not.
C
C
Landscaping
plan
is
generally
compliant
with
what's
required,
which
include
a
combination
of
Street
trees,
Street
buffers
building
impacts,
landscaping,
retaining
wall
landscaping
and
parking
lot.
Landscaping
open
space
is
required
at
a
rate
of
15
for
this
property
in
this
site,
provided
at
a
percentage
of
19
and
then
tree
canopy
preservation
standards
are
proposed
to
be
met
through
new
tree
plantings.
C
As
mentioned
earlier,
all
units
will
be
designated
affordable
to
those
at
80
or
below.
Ami
37
of
those
units
would
be
reserved
for
housing,
Choice
vouchers.
The
project
is
Seeking
a
couple
couple
of
technical
modifications.
There
were
three
modifications
that
were
proposed
with
the
last
conditional
zoning.
Two
of
those
are
no
longer
required
because
the
site
has
gotten
larger
and
the
number
of
units
have
decreased.
C
So,
essentially,
the
project
would
still
only
need
a
technical
modification
for
the
maximum
building
square
footage
which,
as
proposed,
is
about
fifty
thousand
square
feet
where,
under
the
CB2
zoning,
the
maximum
square
footage
of
a
building
can
only
be
forty
five
thousand
square
feet.
Also
that
there
would
be
no
loading
births
where
two
would
typically
be
required.
So
it
was
just
loading
spaces
that
the
project
is
asking
to
be
exempt
from
base
some
number
of
parking
spaces
and
that
are
proposed.
C
The
project
also
supports
the
number
of
goals
in
the
plan,
such
as
providing
infield
development
and
targeted
growth
areas,
increasing
the
supply
of
housing,
including
affordable
housing
and
proximity
to
schools,
Transit
and
parks,
and
leveraging
City
resources
for
the
development
and
maintenance
of
subsidized
housing,
including
senior
housing,
and,
as
noted
in
the
staff
report,
the
project
did
receive
a
grant
of
1.3
million
dollars
from
the
city
and
I
believe
a
number
of
funders
to
purchase
two
of
the
three
sites
and
they
also
received
the
loan
of
nine
hundred
and
four
thousand
dollars
from
the
city's
Housing.
B
Thank
you,
Mr
Palmquist.
Any
questions
for
staff
from
commissioner.
F
The
I
had
a
little
confusion
around
the
impervious
area
and
the
staff
report.
It
says
total
impervious
surface
here,
71
percent
applying's
plan
say
76.4.
The
project
conditions
say
maximum.
F
I
F
It
seems
like
we
should
have
if
we're
going
to
say
shall
not
exceed.
Let's
make
it.
You
know
the
upper
limit,
and
this
is
a
proposal
we
can
talk
with
the
Appling
about
the
I
think
the
allowable
is
80
and
the
CB,
so
yeah
seems
like
why
not
just
I
know
we
were
trying
to
maybe
show
something
a
little
better
than
what's
required
in
the
conditions.
That
was
probably
the
intent,
but
just
got
a
little
murky
when
I
was
reviewing
this
one.
Yes,.
C
So
that
is
confusing
I
think
I
must
have
had
a
typo
in
there
somewhere
I
would
defer
to
the
Project's
plans
and
then
the
project
conditions
you're
right.
We
do
try
to
set
those
maximums,
even
if
they're,
even
if
the
maximum
is
80
typically
and
a
lot
of
that
is
just
relying
back
on
the
site
plan
as
well.
C
So
if
the
site
plan
doesn't
change
very
much
between
review
now
and
any
future
review
than
the
impervious
isn't
going
to
change
necessarily,
but
we
do
try
to
give
them
a
little
bit
of
margin
of
error.
A
couple
percentage
points
so
that
you
know
in
case
they
have
to
add
a
small
bit
of
pavement.
They're
not
gonna,
have
to
come
back
for
an
amendment,
so
I
think
that's
kind
of
some
of
that
tweaking
that
that
we
kind
of
do
in
this
project
conditions.
C
F
My
my
other
question
is
around
the
open
space.
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
first
that
we've
seen
under
the
new
open
State
space
standards
being
applied.
So
I'd
like
to
hear
a
little
bit
more
about
meeting
the
reduction
allowance
to
15
through
either
enhanced
storm
water
or
affordable
housing.
Does
this
project
have
both
or
was
it
meeting
it
through
the
affordable
housing
provision?
I.
C
Think,
secondly,
has
both,
since
it
is
essentially
Greenfield
development,
it
does
have
to
comply
with
those
storm
water
requirements
that
would
trigger
that
incentive,
and
it
also
goes
well
well
beyond
the
minimum
required
to
reduce
for
the
affordable
housing
as
well.
So
in
this
case,
a
lot
of
the
projects
that
come
before
you
all
are
20
minimum
from
the
50
reduced
to
20,
because
they're
over
50
residential
units.
Since
this
project
is
fewer,
it
can
be
reduced
to
15
if
it
meets
either
the
affordability
or
the
or
the
storm
water.
C
So
it's
it's
doing
both
in
this
case.
It
doesn't
it
just
only
has
to
do
one
of
the
two
to
get
down
to
15
percent
I,
think
technically
it
could
be
reduced
to
10
if
it
really
wanted
to
to
meet
that
additional
five
percent
reduction.
That's
that's
eligible
as
well,
but
they're
they're,
plenty
compliant
in
regards
to
that
so
they'll
be
providing
more
than
that
minimum
of
15
percent.
F
Great
thank
you.
When
staff
reviewed
the
open
space
I'm
just
curious,
you
know,
are
we
feeling
like
the
new
Provisions
are
working?
Is
this
what
staff
was
hoping
for
just
curious
to
hear
your
feedback
on
the
application
for.
J
C
Sites
that
were
couldn't
really
meet
the
storm
water
without
a
huge
Redevelopment,
we're
running
a
real
pickle,
so
I
think
we've
adjusted
it
to
be
a
little
more
lenient
to
allow,
for
you,
know
reasonable
development,
but
for
new
development
I
think
it
is
incentivizing
them
to
meet
the
storm
water
or
the
affordability.
So
you
know
I
think
so
far,
I
think
so
far.
So
good.
M
Thank
you
thank
you.
Hi
I'm,
Ward,
Griffin
I'm,
the
development
consultant
and
general
contractor.
It's
been
working
with
Haywood
Street
Community
Development
for
coming
up
on
eight
years
on
trying
to
get
affordable
housing
project
built,
but
just
wanted
to
thank
City
staff
for
their
time
and
support
and
the
Commissioners
we're
excited
to
finally
be
back
at
this
point.
We're
excited
to
have
added
this
additional
piece
of
property,
allows
us
to
bring
the
building
down
off
of
the
podium
and
have
additional
service.
Surface
parking.
M
I
think
it's
going
to
make
the
building
really
blend
nicely
into
the
surrounding
community
and
still
keep
41
units.
It's
a
100
percent
affordable
in
perpetuity
and
excite
at
this
point
to
have
the
full
commitment
and
partnership
from
Gibbons
estate.
It's
going
to
be
our
property
manager
partner
and
bring
in
their
breadth
of
knowledge
for
property
management
and
purely
an
affordable
realm
to
the
project
so
happy
to
answering
their
questions
about
the
project
or
its
operation,
or
we
also
have
our
design
team
here.
B
Thank
you,
I
had
a
couple
of
questions,
I
think
I
figured
out
where
the
highest
retaining
wall
is
and
I'm
sure
Mr
Canard
can
clarify
that.
For
me,
it
looks
like
the
highest
ones
are
along
what
I'm
going
to
call
the
west
side
of
the
site.
Is
that
correct?
Where
there's
the
essentially
the
Drive
Entrance,
that's
going
to
the
parking
behind
the
building?
Is
that
correct.
B
Mr
Griffin,
you
mentioned
one
thing
that
was
one
I
had
noted
when
in
this
that
it
came
back
so
it's
100,
affordable.
Essentially
what
I'm
going
to
say
that
you
know
180
20,
100,
affordable,
80,
Ami,
but
it's
20
years
is
that
correct,
whereas
before
it
had
been
in
purpose.
B
K
C
B
E
B
I
guess,
then
the
only
well,
the
only
question
I
would
have
then
is
I.
Think
what
commissioner
Martin
brought
up
on
condition.
12.
Can
we
just
strike
the
approximately
the
Project's
post
impervious
area
will
not
exceed
75
percent.
A
F
A
A
C
C
K
A
K
B
F
B
F
It's
it's
not
as
desirable
site
plan
as
it
once
was.
I
had
totally
understand
the
need
and
the
reason
to
find
a
you
know,
feasible
project.
So
I
applied
your
creativity,
but
it
is
disappointing
to
see
an
increase
in
surface
parking,
particularly
along
the
street.
Instead
of
behind
the
building
like
it
once
was,
and
under
the
building
yeah.
M
And
you
know,
unfortunately,
price
of
concrete
is
price
concrete
and
we
do
feel
like
the
new
building
is
going
to
feel
much
better
in
the
neighborhood
being
a
three
four
split,
as
opposed
to
a
four-story
on
a
podium,
so
hopefully,
overall
it'll
it'll
it'll
still
blend
nicely.
Even
though
we
do
have
the
additional
surface.
M
I
mean
we
did
not
in
this
case,
he
would
treat
congregation
as
an
entity
has
worked
for
many
years
around
trying
to
get
dot
property,
that's
adjacent
for
similar
housing
purposes,
and
it
just
seems
that,
with
the
ongoing
you
know
uncertain
around
the
I-26
Corridor
that
you
know
dot
isn't
at
this
time
really
ready
or
in
a
position
to
talk,
engage
seriously
about
that
property.
Until
there's
plans
are
finalized.
A
C
I
B
F
M
B
E
E
B
I
B
B
H
I
B
A
B
Time
I'm
excited
to
see
this
project
happen.
We
again
I
think
this
is
and
it's
the
second
time
it's
come
around,
still
the
only
100,
affordable
project
in
perpetuity
that
I
have
seen
in
five
and
three
quarter
years.
So,
thank
you
all
very,
very
much.
Thank
you
all
right.
Do
we
want
to
take
a
five
minute
break
yeah
we're
going
to
take
a
five
minute
break
at
six.
Let's
call
it
we'll
come
back
at
6,
25
how's
that.
I
B
I
I
I
I
I
I
B
I
B
Me
and
community
business
one
CB1
to
community
business.
One
conditional,
Zone,
CB1
CZ
properties,
are
identified.
As
the
pins
noted
in
the
agenda.
Property
owner
is
Pegasus
Holdings
LLC,
the
applicant
contact
is
Eugene
Eugene
Ellison
and
the
planar
recording
review
is
Clay
Mitchell
good
evening,
Mr
Mitchell.
How
are
you
I'm.
J
J
The
the
backed
out
image
gives
you
a
little
bit
better
context:
the
Ingles
Market
to
the
west
and
then
in
AutoZone
to
the
east,
so
that
you
can
see
that
this
scale
and
the
scope
during
the
process
and
the
review
of
this
application
was
originally
proposed
as
a
single
parcel,
but
based
on
what
what
I'll
go
over
with
you
tonight,
it
became
clear
that
it's
it's,
a
more
coherent
application
of
all
three
Parcels
are
brought
together
and
and
I'll
explain
that
a
little
bit
as
we
move
forward
so
the
front
two
parses
are
already
zoned
community
business
one.
J
It's
it's!
This
third
parcel
that
we're
looking
at
RS8,
which
would
change
to
community
business
one,
and
we
would
join
that
parcel
with
the
other
two,
because
we're
looking
at
all
three
Parcels
kind
of
as
one
coherent
use
and
I
recognize
that
every
land
use
decision
and
everything
dealing
with
land
is
unique
in
nature.
J
However,
this
commission
had
a
an
instructive
dialogue
about
a
somewhat
similar
application,
and
so
our
response
has
been
to
try
and
work
with
the
applicant
get
a
conditional
zoning
that
that
we're
comfortable
with
and
address
some
of
the
concerns
you
raised
when
we
talked
about
a
similar
application,
where
we
were
doing
conditional
zoning
that
involved
a
parking
facility
in
a
residential
area,
the
the
future
land
use
map
maps
the
front
two
Parcels
as
an
urban
Corridor
and
the
third
parcel
as
residential
neighborhood.
J
Given
the
proposed
conditions
and
limitations
that
we've
suggested,
we
feel
that
it's
not
necessary
to
change
the
future
land
use
designation.
For
that
third
parcel.
J
The
site
plan
is
well
developed
it
it
shows.
The
current
state
of
the
site
is
undeveloped
parking.
Is
it
used
exclusively
for
the
East
Village,
the
grill?
It
is
entirely
constructed
of
pervious
pavers.
It
complies
with
all
of
our
Landscaping
requirements
as
well
as
30-foot
buffers
along
the
west
and
the
southern
portion
of
the
property,
and
you
can
see
the
distribution
of
the
plantings
within
that
to
Grandview
place
is
the
parcel
immediately
to
the
north,
which
is
an
existing
paved
parking
that,
but
it
serves
the
site
and
would
likely
be
continued.
J
It
will
continue
its
use,
probably
for
visitors
to
the
site
patrons
of
the
grill.
This.
The
the
programmatic
suggestion
from
the
applicants
is
that
this
additional
parking
would
be
for
employees.
It
would
also
access
off
Grandview
I'll.
Let
the
applicants
who
I
believe
are
here
to
comment
on
specific
on
the
design
there.
There
is
grade
change
between
the
two
parcels
and
the
ability
to
connect
is
is
somewhat
complicated
but
I'll
again
I'll.
Let
you
build.
Let
them
build
that
in.
For
you.
J
Another
reason
for
joining
the
three
Parcels
together
in
one
rezoning
is
some
of
the
obligations
that
would
be
met
on
this
specific
site
can
now
be
met
on
the
front
parcel
and
those
are
those
those
actually
have
a
better
planning
result,
and
that
has
to
do
with
the
provision
of
of
bicycle
parking
and
an
additional
accessible
spot.
J
We
went
over
this
internally
significantly
based
on
some
of
the
concerns
and
comments
raised
by
this
commission
earlier,
and
we
have
proposed
a
couple
of
conditions
that
we
think
addressed
the
concerns
that
you
raised
and
we
are
proposing
that
for
four
Grandview
place,
that
this
property
is
limited
to
a
use
for
surface
parking
to
serve
the
uses
on
the
other
parcels
and
that
it
would
be
in
it
would
be
allowed
to
have
uses
in
the
under
the
existing
RSA.
J
So
if
the
uses
change
in
the
front
and
the
owner
decides
that
they
no
longer
need
the
parking,
then
they
can
return
it
to
some
use
in
the
RS8
and
that
that
reflects
some
of
the
concerns
raised
by
the
commission
about
you,
know,
opening
up
commercial
uses
in
a
residentially,
Zone
location
and
then
for
two
Grandview
place
and
1177
Tunnel
Road
we're
not
proposing
those
restrictions
because
they're
already
community
business
one.
J
So
it's
it's
they're,
they're
separated,
but
for
the
purpose
of
the
conditional
zoning
we
we
tried
to
come
up
with
a
with
a
balanced
way
to
anticipate
some
of
those
concerns
and
address
them
with
these
conditions
that
was
approved
at
the
technical
Review
Committee
in
July
17th,
with
conditions
it's
here
for
you
tonight
and
after
tonight,
or
depending
on
this
review
process,
we
will
set
the
schedule
for
city
council
conditional
zoning
approval
or
review
we.
J
We
find
that
and-
and
this
is
consistent
with
with
what
we've
experienced
before
it's
partially
consistent
with
the
future
land
use
map.
Obviously
it's
it's
consistent
with
Urban
Corridor,
it's
a
the
Workhorse
Street
for
transportation,
commercial
activity,
it's
remote
from
the
downtown
the
city
so
I.
You
know
people
will
have
to
drive
to
to
get
to
this
use
and-
and
that's
that's
our
historical
development
patterns.
J
The
residential
neighborhood
is
where
we
run
into
some
of
that
partially
consistent
in
the
comprehensive
plans.
It
does
recommend
against
commercial
uses
that
could
be
inappropriate
with
the
residential
neighborhood
and
talks
about
the
types
of
uses
that
they
would
potentially
and
since
this
doesn't
align
precisely
we
came
up
with
those
conditions
which
we
felt
brings
it
closer.
Even
home
stays
bed
and
breakfasts
and
other
types
of
uses
they
do
have
parking.
J
So
there
is
some
kind
of
you
know,
shadow
of
parking
being
something
that
would
be
accepted,
and
so
with
the
restrictions
and
the
conditions.
We
feel
that
maybe
the
that
anticipates
some
of
the
concerns
that
you
have
about
this
use
it.
It
does
support
comprehensive
plan
goals.
This
is
small
Independent
Business.
We
have
strong
comments
about
supporting
and
using
zoning
regulations
to
support
those
businesses.
It
does
encourage
responsible
growth.
The
the
corridor
itself
is
a
growth
area
and
so
a
lot,
a
successful
business
that
needs
parking.
J
This
is
where
we
start
to
get
into
the
challenge
of
balancing
the
interests,
and
so
we've
tried
to
come
up
with
a
way
to
do
that
for
you
and
parking
management
strategies,
particularly
in
areas
where
we
don't
have
a
well-developed
public
transportation
system
or
alternative
transportation
options,
biking
and
walking.
This
is
what
we
feel
is
is
that
balance
approach
that
helps
the
business
survive
and
minimizes
the
impacts
on
the
abutting
community.
G
G
J
Think
the
applicant
is
better
prepared
to
answer
that
question
than
I
am
I
I,
don't
know
what
the
status
of
that
separate
parcel.
It
was
not
broke
forward
to
us
as
part
of
the
application
you're
talking
about
the
one
immediately
to
the
east
yeah.
Yes,
yes,
it
is,
it's
continuously
paved
and
it
appears
to
be
used
on
some
cases
for
additional
parking
for
this,
but
I
I'm.
Not
it
is
a
separate
parcel
that
was
not
brought
forward.
B
All
right,
thank
you
very
much.
Would
the
applicant
like
to
come
up
please.
O
O
Well,
we
don't
own,
we
don't
own.
We
release
that
and
that's
part
of
what
the
concern
is
we're
about
to
lose
that
lease
and
no
parking
for
a
restaurant.
That's
been
here
over
32
years,
it's
been
great
and
so
Nick
is
having
to
prepare
to
support
his
restaurant
and
I.
Think
the
other
thing
I'd
bring.
The
attention
is
that
you
know
there's
only
I,
think
five
or
six
houses
up
in
this
area
right
here.
Nick
owns
three
of
them
and
I
think
the
other
gentleman
owns
the
other
two.
O
If
you
look
at
the
area
right
there,
there's
an
old
city,
councilman
I
could
see
potentially
down
the
road.
Is
that
development?
It's
some
type
of
commercial
area
period
that
whole
area
right
there
you
know
to
the
east
of
you
got
Advance
Auto.
You
got
Ingles
on
the
other
side
of
it
and
pretty
much
nothing
else
there.
So
we
appreciate
all
the
the
work
and
willing
to
meet
all
the
conditions
and
just
hope
that
you
all
would
approve
it.
B
Thank
you
very
much.
Mr
Ellison
I
have
a
couple
of
questions.
I'm
I'm
curious
as
to
one
I,
I
should
start
out
and
say
I
appreciate
the
fact
that
this
is
using
100,
perviable,
Paving
I
think
that's,
that's
very
admirable
and
needs
to
be
noted.
I
know
a
lot
of
times.
You
know
we
kind
of
it
either
gets
mentioned
or
talked
about
a
lot
of
people.
Just
don't
want
to
do
it
so
I
again.
I
just
want
to
point
that
out.
B
That's
extremely
admirable
for
the
applicant
to
want
to
do
because
I
know
it
costs
a
little
bit
more
I'm,
just
I'm
curious
about
not
having
a
direct
connection
from
this
parking
lot
down
to
the
other
parking
lot.
I
understand.
If
it's
you
know
mostly
going
to
be
staff
use,
but
it
still
seems
I
understand
that
there's
some
grade
change,
but
in
looking
at
this
I,
haven't
actually
been
directly
foot
on
the
site,
but
it
seems
like
a
path
even
if
it
looped
around
could
be
created.
So.
O
Well,
but
I
and
I
think
it's
going
to
help
limit
it
to
what
what
our
users
are
to
be
able
to
just
come,
that
the
way
that
it
is
designed
to
come
in
for
employees
to
park
in
there
and
go
if
you
take
a
when
you
take
a
look
at
that,
you
know,
there's
a
parking
lot
that
is
connected
to
it.
Yes,
but
I.
Think
in
the
interest
of
what
might
happen
down
the
road.
It
also
keeps
it
separate
because
it
may
return
down
the
road,
as
he
mentioned.
B
B
O
Next
one
from
the
park,
yes
from
the
parking
lot
right
next
to
it,
there's
a
brand
new
set
of
stairs
that
leads
right
into
the
the
restaurant
and,
of
course,
you
know
from
a
handicap
standpoint,
we
met.
We
agreed
to
put
another
handicap
Park
in
place
and
also
put
a
bicycle
parking
place
for
for
persons
doing
it,
but
yeah
I
think
financially
from
Nick's
standpoint
and
spending
what
he's
having
to
spend
if
we
could
pull
it
off.
I
think
this
is
It's
kind
of
what
he
wants
to
get
done.
B
O
B
B
A
F
F
F
Like
that's
what
they're
going
to
do,
you
know
if
that
fence
went
all
the
way,
there's
a
current
fence
that
doesn't
go
all
the
way
out
to
Grandview
place.
If
it
did,
it
would
force
people
parking
in
the
employee
lot
to
walk
into
traffic,
so
it
seems
like
this
will
be
handled
informally,
I'm,
not
sure
that
we
need
to
impose
a
formal
requirement
on
them,
but.
F
B
B
A
B
Pull
up
will
that
it's
in
the
or
excuse
me
Mr
Mitchell.
Thank
you.
B
B
B
A
B
I'd
like
to
say
Mr,
Ellison
I
would
just
you
know,
encourage
your
your
client
to
to
make
that
connection
between
those
two
parking
lots.
I
just
think
it
looks
safety.
A
G
I
moved
to
approve
the
conditional
zoning
request
for
the
property
located
at
four
Grandview
place,
two
Grandview
place
and
one
one:
seven:
seven
Tunnel
Road
from
residential
single
family,
high
density,
RS8
and
community
community
business,
one
CB1
to
community
business,
one
conditional
zones
CB
at
one
dash
CZ
and
find
that
the
request
is
reasonable.
As
in
the
public
interest
is
consistent
with
the
city's
comprehensive
plan.
G
It
meets
the
development
needs
of
the
community
and
that
the
request
one
provides
infill
development
and
targeted
growth,
areas
to
locate
surface
parking
areas
to
the
rear
buildings
and
identified
Innovation
districts
and
a
long
Transit
supportive
corridors
and
three
support.
Small
business
growth
and
a
local
maker
based
economy.
A
O
B
All
right,
we
have
two
more
items
on
the
agenda
tonight
and
both
of
these
are
going
to
be
heard
simultaneously.
We
will
vote
on
them
separately,
but
simultaneously.
Two
zoning
text.
Amendments-
excuse
me
one
is
a
request
to
consider
a
proposed
zoning
text,
amendment
to
chapter
7
of
the
unified
development
ordinance
to
revise
the
cottage
development
standards.
The
second
is
a
request
to
consider
a
proposed
zoning
text,
amendment
to
chapter
7
of
the
unified
development
ordinance
to
revise
the
flag
lot
standards.
Q
Great
thanks
had
some
design
guidance
from
the
chair
here
good
evening.
Members
of
the
commission,
members
of
public
vadillas
planning
and
Urban
Design,
like
was
stated,
I'll
talk
about
the
proposed
text,
Amendment
for
flag
lots
and
Cottages
in
that
order.
This
is
just
a
couple
of
quick
images
to
show
you
what
flag
lots
are
typically
they're
small
subdivisions
of
property
from
one
parcel
and
they
look.
Q
Q
Q
Minor
subdivisions
are
subdivisions
of
property
that
are
already
adjacent
to
a
street
like
the
the
image
in
the
Middle,
where
a
larger
property
can
divide
itself
in
in
two
and
because
it's
on
a
public
or
a
private
Street,
you
can
just
make
the
connection
and
a
flag
lot
can
be
within
a
minor
subdivision
or
a
major
subdivision,
but
it's
really
considered
a
limited
access
subdivision.
For
that
reason,
the
city
of
Asheville
limits
how
many
flag
Lots
we
allow
and
we
have
sort
of
restrictive
standards
for
flag
Lots.
Q
Q
When
thinking
about
subdivision
of
property,
it's
important
to
understand
this
idea
of
lot
widths,
which
we
Define
as
a
lot
with
means
the
horizontal
distance
between
side
lot
lines
measured
along
the
street
Frontage.
What
you
see
on
the
left
of
the
screen
are
the
minimum
lot
width
dimensions
in
the
different
residential
zoning
districts
and
those
are
important
to
allow
for
access
to
the
property.
Q
You
know:
vehicular
access,
emergency
access,
connection
to
utilities,
trash
and
a
structured
pattern
of
development
that
every
neighborhood
has
today
and
the
flag
law
is
an
exception
to
the
rule.
We
understand
and
recognize
that
some
lots
have
extra
room
and
you
you
want
to
provide
some
space
for
for
that
development,
but
it's
really
an
exception,
and
that's
what
this
slide
shows
here
is
that
they
are
exceptions.
Q
They
are
limited,
surely,
by
the
fact
that
to
create
a
flag
lot,
you
need
quite
a
bit
more
room.
You
have
to
have
two
times
the
minimum
lot
area,
because
we
don't
count
the
flagpole
in
in
the
calculation,
so
you
have
to
have
room.
Q
We
also
require
that
these
are
limited.
So
if
you
have
a
new
subdivision
of
seven
Lots
or
less,
we
only
allow
one
of
them
and
if
it's
larger
than
if
it's
eight
Lots
or
more,
we
allow
two
or
ten
percent.
Q
Durham
has
a
recent
exception
where
they
have
a
narrow
flag
lot
standard
that
goes
down
to
12
feet,
but
that's
really
the
the
narrowest
I've
seen
foreign.
So
what
is
the
applicant
requesting?
The
request
is
to
reduce
the
minimum
flag
lot
width
to
five
feet
and
to
strike
the
language
that
separates,
requires
a
separation
or
a
limit
to
flag
Lots,
so
that
effectively
you
can
have
as
many
flag
Lots
as
you
like.
A
subdivision
could
be
entirely
made
of
flag
Lots
effectively.
Q
We
are
concerned
of
the
proposed.
We
realize
the
intent
is
good
and
and
we
we
applaud
the
applicant
for
trying
to
find
ways
to
make
more
developable
developable
land
for
residential
development.
But
in
this
case
it
leads
to
a
very
unorganized
pattern
of
development
and
really
undermines
the
subdivision
process.
Q
It
is
not
supportive
of
missing
middle
housing
goals
and
the
process
that
we're
currently
in
the
middle
of,
and
currently
the
applicant,
has
similar
means,
or
some
means
to
achieve
the
ends
that
he's
seeking
so
concern
about
the
pattern
of
development.
On
the
left
hand
side
here
you
can
see
what
is
a
typically
a
normal
subdivision.
This
is
a
a
larger
piece
of
property.
They
they
made
a
cul-de-sac.
They
they
brought
in
a
public
Street,
so
that
there's
a
regular
pattern
for
all
the
properties.
Emergency
access
is,
is
available
and
clear.
Q
And
immediately
to
the
right,
the
parcel
adjacent
to
it.
You
could
imagine
that
that
it
considers
a
development
right.
It's
it's
a
similar
size
parcel
it's
a
little
bit
smaller,
but
if
this
ordinance
were
to
pass,
the
owner
could
effectively
put
in
a
series
of
flag
Lots,
all
five
foot
wide
or
more.
You
know
they
could
keep
the
middle
house
there
and
it
would
lead
to
what
you
see
here.
Potentially
six
homes,
no
public
Street.
Q
Another
concern
is
the
fact
that
we
are
in
the
middle
of
a
missing
middle
housing
study.
We
understand
that
housing
is
a
need
here.
It's
we're
in
a
crisis
mode,
but
we
don't
want
to
undermine
We've.
We've
invested
115
000
in
the
study
we're
in
the
middle
of
it,
it
will
wrap
up
in
September
and
The
Proposal
would
would
be
incentivizing.
Q
The
creation
of
single-family
development
in
backyards
without
size,
size
constraints
and
the
the
entire
focus
of
missing
middle
is
trying
to
create
residential
size
structures
primarily
facing
the
street
that
look
like
normal
homes
to
maintain
neighborhood
compatibility
which,
as
you
can
see
in
the
image
here,
has
larger
structures
on
the
streets.
Smaller
units
in
the
back,
the
backyard
is
the
Adu,
the
cottage
cetera
and
we're
seeking
to
find
other
options
than
the
single
family
homes.
Q
These
are
a
couple
of
slides
taken
from
the
missing
middle
housing,
Consultants
presentation
to
the
public
when
they
first
started
that
missing
middle
housing
is
not
two
full-sized
Lots
on
twofold
I'm.
Sorry,
it's
two
full-size
houses
on
each
lot.
The
idea
is
trying
to
get
to
more
attainable
housing
through
multiple
units
within
one
structure.
Q
This
is
an
aerial
from
a
Street
in
West
Asheville,
where
you
see
that
typical
pattern
consistent
now,
this
isn't
to
say
that
this
pattern
shouldn't
change
and
that
we
shouldn't
find
creative
ways
to
allow
for
more
infill,
but
we
believe
it
needs
to
happen
in
a
open
and
transparent
process
that
we're
in
the
middle
of
this
proposal
has
had
no
no
public
input
and
should
it
move
forward.
Q
It
would
really
be
a
surprise
to
many
of
the
people
who
are
involved
in
the
open
in
the
Missing
middle
process
and
and
I
think
it
would
be
inappropriate
to
say
the
least.
Q
Another
concern
is
that
there
are
other
Machi
other
means,
purportedly
to
achieve
goals
already
existing
you
on
a
multi-family
District.
You
can
create
a
second
house,
and
the
applicant
may
make
the
case
or
to
explain
that
there
is
a
process
for
creating
a
way
to
take
advantage
of
this
through
legal
structures.
So
you
can
sell
a
backyard
unit
and
if
that's
the
case
this,
there
isn't
a
need
to
formalize
this
process
and
to
expand
it
city-wide.
When
we
we
know
there
are
clear
concerns.
Q
So
what
might
the
impact
of
the
ordinance
have
two
neighborhoods?
This
is
one
block
in
Shiloh,
where
the
the
flag,
lots
that
have
the
dark
outline
currently
have
a
minimum
20
foot
flagpole.
So
those
are
permitted
today,
but
under
the
the
proposed
there
would
be
four
additional
flag
lots
that
would
be
allowed
in
this
on
this
one
Street
we've
already
heard
from
Shiloh
during
this
missing
middle
housing
process
that
they're
concerned
about
erratically
placed
homes
on
property.
They
want
more
organization,
more
structure
and,
in
particular,
this
community
doesn't
want
multi-family
development.
Q
So
you
know
this
is
kind
of
going
in
that
direction
and
we're
concerned
of
what
those
impacts
would
be.
If
you
look
city-wide
currently
on
on
the
image
on
the
left,
you
see
the
the
orange
Parcels
are,
those
that
are
that
are
within
multi-family
districts
where
currently
the
applicant
is,
is
able
to
to
conduct
what
what
he's
doing
now
and
if,
if
this
were
adopted,
it
would
formalize
and
expand
the
idea
of
single-family
backyard
Lots
in
another
12
000
acres
in
Asheville,
which
is
all
the
single-family
districts.
Q
So
we're
we
don't
we're
not
arguing
that
we
shouldn't
think
of
creative
infill
ways
again,
but
we
think
that
this
is
certainly
premature
in
in
many
ways
conflicting
with
what
we're,
what
we're
currently
investigating
with
the
missing
middle
housing.
So
that's
that's
the
overview
of
flag
Lots,
a
few
slides
on
cottages
and
and
will
be
done
Cottages.
Q
The
request
is
that
I'm,
focusing
on
here
is
really
two
one
is
to
reduce
the
the
idea
of
colleges
is
having
shared
homes,
smaller
homes,
around
open
space
and
the
current
standard
is
a
minimum
of
five
maximum
of
15
cottages
and
and
the
applicant
is
suggesting
we
reduce
that
to
two
and
suggesting
that
we
strike
any
separation
requirement
between
projects,
so
you
could
have
one
Cottage
after
another
right
next
to
each
other,
so
our
primary
concern
is
reducing
the
minimum
number
to
two
really
undermines
the
intent
of
what
a
cottage
development
ordinance
is
which
is
community,
and
the
second
is
that
the
change
would
effectively
permit
two
units
in
in
RS8.
A
Q
The
the
architect,
who
really
made
the
cottage
development
ordinance
famous,
wrote
a
book
and
in
in
that
they
state.
If
a
cluster
has
fewer
than
four
households
fewer
than
four
Cottages,
it
loses
the
sense
of
being
a
cluster
and
lacks
of
diversity
and
activity
of
a
larger
group.
So
they
they
believe
that
four
is
the
minimum
to
have
a
effective
community.
Q
The
Consultants
that
we've
hired
that
are
working
on
to
study
with
us
suggest
five
to
ten
units,
so
I
would
I
would
put
the
question
to
you
if,
if
the
leading
architect,
who
coined
the
term
for
cottage
developments,
believes
that
a
cottage
needs
at
least
four
in
our
Consultants
are
suggesting
five.
Why
would
we
we
reduce
them
to
two.
Q
E
Q
Some
images
and-
and
you
know,
plan
of
what
Cottages
look
like
they're.
Typically,
you
know
larger
number
of
smaller
homes
and
I
think
this
leads
to
another
concern
is
effectively.
What
this
seems
to
be
doing
is
to
allow
two
units
in
RS8,
if
you,
if
you,
if
you
reduce
the
cottage
minimum
to
two,
it's
very
easy
to
include
green
space
between
two
homes
on
a
piece
of
parcel,
you
can
say
it's
a
cottage
there's
there's
some
grass
between
and
you
can
meet
the
other
Cottage
standards
effectively.
Q
Last
two
slides
other
staff
concerns
we're
concerned.
What
the
implications
are
to
the
subdivision
ordinance
because,
like
I
mentioned
effectively,
if
you
have
a
two
acre
parcel,
you
can
cut
everything
up
now
to
five
five
foot
flag
Lots
effectively
it
it
question.
It
raises
the
question:
what
is
it?
What
is
the
minimum
lot
width
at
this
point?
Q
If
you
have
a
five
foot
minimum
pole
and
no
no
restriction
to
how
many
flag
Lots
you
can
have
so
you
can
get
a
very
large
piece
of
property
that
isn't
great
for
development,
but
it
would
be
good
now
that
this
ordinance
passes
we
have
some.
We
would
need
to
adjust
other
parts
of
the
code
that
currently
disallow
any
portion
of
a
lot
to
be
less
than
15
foot
wide.
Q
Q
So,
for
these
reasons,
staff
believes
that,
although
the
intent
of
the
amendments
are
good
improving
housing
stock,
these
specific
recommendations
are
not
reasonable
to
have
a
lot
of
negative
consequences,
many
unknown
impacts
and
for
that
reason,
are
not
in
the
public
interest
and
are
inconsistent
with
our
comprehensive
plan,
and
we
recommend
disapproval
of
both
proposed
text
amendments.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you
very
much.
Mr
savika
I
know
I
have
a
couple
of
clarifying.
F
Just
a
couple
yeah
to
clarify:
do
you
know
how
many
Cottage
developments
have
been
built
through
the
current
Cottage
development
ordinance
in
Nashville.
Q
The
first
one
is
our
best
one
in
West
Asheville
on
I
forget
the
name
of
the
street,
but
it's.
Q
I'm
thinking,
rich
or
something
but
I
don't
know.
2007
was
the
year
that
they
it
was
created
and
then
that
led
to
our
Cottage
development,
ordinance.
Q
15
years
to
have
five
or
six
Cottages,
it's
it's
not
heavily
used.
Q
Townhouses
are
permitted,
townhouses
are
considered,
single-family
structures
and
they're
they're
permitted
in
RS8
Cottages
are
permitted
in
so
Cottage
is
probably
the
most
multi-family-like
thing.
That's
permitted
in
an
rs-8
there's
single
family
structures.
They're
smaller
they're
capped
at
1400
square
feet.
But
you
know
that's
that's
the
most
multi-family
like
I'm.
G
Q
Rs8
single-family
homes
and
and
accessory
structures
accessory
dwelling
units.
I
Q
B
B
A
B
Q
To
respond
to
your
with
question
the
applicant
can
can
chime
in
but
I
think.
The
idea
is
that
the
flagpole
would
have
five
feet
and
there
would
be
a
required
easement
between
that
and
the
parent
parcel
that
would
have
to
have
five
feet
or
so
and
and
that's
how
you.
Q
Q
I
can
see
this
becoming
a
problem.
The
argument
may
be
that
if
it's,
if
it's
formalized
with
an
easement
on
the
the.
B
Experience
but
yeah
I,
like
I,
said
I
I,
think
my
question
I
mean
comes
from
I
I
would
love
to
see
ways
to
I,
think
I
said
it
in
the
very
first
thing
we
talked
about
this
evening.
You
know
the
Udo
is
outdated.
I
would
love
to
see
changes
made
to
the
Udo
I
want
to
see
changes
made
that
allow
you
know
adus
to
be
built
and
bought
as
separate
Parcels.
If
there's
already
something
that
kind
of
allows
that
to
happen.
B
B
K
I
K
That
has
to
have
certain
declarations
has
to
have
certain
elements,
common
space
elements
and
it's
good
read
upon
and
actually
I
mean
I
had
to
go
back
and
look
at
it
because
it
hasn't
come
up
very
often,
I,
don't
know
exactly
how
it
differs
from
and
homeowners
association
other,
but
it
it
might
not
I
don't
know
it
might
not
dictate
whether
they're
you
know
single-family
homes
or
home
ownership,
and
and
probably
that
can
we
can
talk
about
that.
But.
I
K
K
A
K
K
B
R
Okay,
so
let
me
what
I'm
just
going
to
explain
is
to
kind
of
why
we're
why
we're
here?
So
you
know,
obviously
you
know
if
I
are
over
here,
Barry
Bialik,
so
you
know
I'm
the
you
know:
I've
been
the
chair
of
the
affordable
housing
committee
for
about
six
years,
I'm
rolling
off
next
couple
weeks,
but
I'm
also
built
about
150
houses
in
town.
I,
probably
am
one
of
the
largest
missing
Little
Builders
in
town
and
then
I've
learned
from
building
many
of
the
tricks.
R
So
I've
built
planned
communities,
I've
built
you
know,
on
flag,
Lots,
I've,
divided
lots
of
land
and
what
I've
really
tried
and
what
have
what
we've
really
observed,
as
we
all
know,
with
land
with
house
prices
coming
up
so
much,
we
started
tracking
at
ahac
land
prices
because,
as
a
builder
I'm
on
the
front
end
of
this
right,
so
I'm
the
Builder
trying
to
build
reasonably
priced
houses
for
people
and
I
have
to
find
them
land
first
and
then
the
rule
of
thumb
is
the
cost
of
the
land
is
generally
25
of
the
whole
cost
of
the
project.
R
I've
start
I
started
realizing
that
I
can't
build
houses
for
people
in
Asheville
anymore,
because
our
cost
of
land
has
gone
crazy.
So
we
I
started
a
little.
We
started
a
couple
of
meetings
ago,
tracking
land
prices
for
ahec
so
and
we
basically
are
showing
there's
not
there's
all
of
the
building
Lots
in
the
city
of
Asheville.
Now
that
are
on
their
MLS,
there's
nothing
less
than
125
000.
That's
today!
So
as
a
builder,
it
means
I
know
the
land
prices.
Today's
land
prices
are
next
year's
home
prices.
R
That
means
next
year
there
will
be
no
homes
less
than
five
hundred
thousand
dollars.
So
I
tried
to
look
at
like
what
are
all
of
the
tricks
that
I've
learned.
What
of
the
experiences
I've
learned
for
how
did
the
city
how
to
navigate
in
the
city
and
what
is
the
tool
that
I
can
simplify
and
share
with
everyone
that
I
already
know
how
to
do
that
Chris
day
already
knows
how
to
do
so.
It's
what
I
really
try
to
do
is
stream
to
take
everything
and
streamline
it
into
something
that
then
applies
to
everybody.
R
So
that's
where
you
know
that's,
where
kind
of
all
of
this
started
from
is
I
tried
to
really
take
the
tools
that
well
yeah
I've,
got
loopholes
and
all
these
things
I
could
do
to
basically
do
what
you
were
just
saying:
the
real
the
goal
and
the
goal
is
to
have
two
separate
sent.
It's
two
separate
sense,
two
separate
ownerships
of
like
a
front
house
and
a
backyard
house,
and
the
main.
R
That
is
why
adus
are
not
taking
off
the
same
way,
because
it's
really
hard
to
finance
a
house
in
your
backyard
when
you
own,
when
the
when
the
the
dirt
is
uncovered
under
the
same
deed
of
trust.
So
with
this,
this
creates
as
a
mechanism
for
how
to
streamline
to
do
that.
The
so
I
just
want
to
kind
of
give
a
little
background
of
kind
of.
R
Why
we're
here
that
basically
I'm
trying
to
take
everything
that
I've
learned
from
all
my
time
on
the
affordable
housing
committee,
everything
I've
learned
from
building
150
plus
houses
in
town,
everything,
I've
learned
from
doing
planned,
Community
act,
subdivisions
in
town
and
how
to
streamline
them
in
a
tool?
That's
accessible
and
equitable,
and
and
using
not
rewriting
something
new.
R
But
I
looked
at
like
what
are
the
things
that
I
can
change,
the
least
in
the
technical
words
to
open
it
up
that
it
helps
the
most
and
that's
where
this
started
from
and
the
cottage
development
you
know.
Ironically,
I've
the
the
I
changed
the
cottage
development
about
six
seven
years
ago,
so
I've
been
through
one
of
the
few
people.
That's
ever
been
through
this
process
of
like
a
a
citizen-initiated
staff
Amendment.
So
it
was
when
Alan
Grange
was
there
and
I.
R
Had
he
told
me
about
the
super
secret
form
and
that's
how
you
know
paid
the
super
secret
form
back?
Then
it
was
525.
Now
it's
800
something
dollars
and
you're.
Basically,
then,
able
to
initiate
a
change
of
a
text
Amendment
to
the
Udo,
the
same
way
that
staff
it's
the
same
process.
That
staff
goes
through
for
changing
the
minor
tweaks
and
things,
so
it's
technical
changes
that
help.
So
that's
my
background,
so
I
want
to
go
and
kind
of
I
put.
You
got
a
little
presentation,
I'm
going
to
be
kind
of
quick
about
this.
R
So
basically
what
this
is.
This
is
two
essential
Udo
amendments
about
flag
loss
and
cottage
development,
technical
fixes,
one
of
the
first
things
I
want
to
point
out
in
the
staff
report.
The
pro
that
they
list
is.
This
proposal
would
open
up
more
land
for
single-family
residential
development
and
lead
to
the
creation
of
more
housing
units.
Some
ways
I
should
just
drop
Mike
and
walk
out,
because
that's
what
we
need.
That's
what
our
city
needs.
R
That's
the
only
way
that
the
people
who
work
here
can
afford
to
live
here
and
we
run
out
of
kind
of
some
tools.
How
do
I,
don't,
okay,
all
right,
so
simple
subdivisions
create
housing,
but
we
need
to
tweak
the
rules
to
make
sure
they
still
work.
So
what
my
graph
up
there
I'm,
not
sure
how
much
you
can
see
it,
but
basically,
what
I
showed
is
for
the
past
three
years.
R
I
tracked
the
data
from
minor
subdivisions
applied
for
so
you
can
see
in
2020
there
was
132
minor
subdivisions
in
21
there
was
still
125
and
then
in
the
past
year
there's
only
been
77.
and
I'm
correlating
that
the
next
line
shows
the
lots
that
are
sold
on
the
MLS
less
than
125
000.
So
you
can
see
that
has
gone
from
104
to
what
is
it
66
to
42?
So
that
means
last
year
only
42
Lots
sold
on
the
MLS
in
the
city
of
Asheville
for
less
than
a
hundred
twenty
five
thousand
dollars.
R
This
is
this
is
Crisis.
The
next
thing
I
showed
is
all
land
prices,
so
I
wanted
to
show
first,
like
the
the
ones
that
mean
houses.
You
know
the
the
yellow
is
houses
that
have
you
know
land
less
than
125.
The
green
is
like
all
Lots
sold,
so
you
can
still
see
how
the
volume
of
all
lands
sold
in
the
city
is
decreasing
because
we're
having
we're
bottlenecked
for
creating
new
ones.
The
other
side
of
that
I'm
saying
major.
R
So
the
reason
why
simple
subdivisions
create
housing
and
why,
if
we
can
tweak
the
the
use
of
them,
it'll
have
dramatic
effect,
because
major
subdivisions
and
larger
projects
move
slow
or
not
at
all.
Over
the
past
two
years,
there's
only
been
four
major
subdivisions
applied
for
in
the
city
of
Asheville
and
none
have
been
approved
yet
level,
two
zonings,
so
any
project
in
the
city
that
is
over
19
housing
units.
That's
multifamil,
you
know
multi-family
some
subdivisions,
so
there's
only
21
applied
for
over
the
past
two
years
and
only
five
have
been
approved.
R
R
It
means
our
review
Cycles,
like
18
months,
to
get
a
project
through,
which
is
why
we're
so
bottlenecked,
which
is
why
you
know,
which
is
why
I'm
here
like
saying
look
simple
subdivisions
are
still
creating,
but
we
need
to
work
on
the
the
tweaks
next,
one
up,
I'm
showing
where
the
flags
have
been.
So
what
that
shows?
Let's
see
what
am
I
showing
in
the
past
two
years,
there's
been
a
total
of
202
minor
subdivision
applications
of
the
202
applications.
122
have
been
approved
and
of
the
122.26,
where
flat
had
flag
lot
components.
R
That
means
21
of
all
minor
subdivisions
had
a
flag
lock
component
to
them,
and
the
lower
chart
I
broke
down
over
the
past
two
years
where
they
were
happening.
So
it
shows
that
the
majority
of
them
have
happened
in
the
rm8
and
RS8.
You
know
subdivision,
you
know
standards,
and
there
was
only
in
those.
Those
are
the
only
four
zones
that
had
happened
in
the
past
two
years.
So
so
the
majority
are
in
RMA
are:
are
RS8
flag,
Lots.
The
point
I'm
trying
to
also
make
is
flag.
R
Laws
tend
to
they
tend
to
sell
for
less
than
traditional
laws,
because
it
is
having
a
shared
driveway
does
make
it
slightly
less
desirable,
so
the
26
flag,
Lots
created
in
the
past
two
years
there
actually
have
been
sold
some
that
sold
for
less
than
any
kind
of
the
average
lot
prices,
so
they're
I
tracked
all
of
the
ones
that
were
created
by
the
city.
You
know
City
process
over
the
past
two
years
of
those.
What
do
you
say
22,
so
yeah,
there's
22
I
tracked
them
all.
Where
are
they?
R
Where
are
they
now
so
three
three
of
those
lots
sold
for
between
75
and
89
000
14
people
then
built
on
them
and
then
nine
are
still
owned
by
the
applicant
and
haven't
been
done.
You
know
haven't
been
done
yet.
So
the
point
is
that
lower
cost
lots
create
lower
cost
housing
and
if
we
there's
there's
always
this
rule
to
follow
of
25
whatever
the
lot
is,
whatever
the
whatever
the
lot
cost
is
the
house
is
going
to
be
it's
going
to
be.
R
You
know
it
can
be
no
less
than
that,
because
that's
where
Bank
financing
comes
in.
That's
where
appraisals
come
in
next
slide,
so
flag
Lots
need
fixing
to
add
to
more
housing.
So
what
I
was
showing
is
how
that
current,
our
current
zoning
math
doesn't
work
most.
R
So,
besides
that
problem
of
that
minimum
20-foot
width,
the
other
issues
with
flag
lobsters
the
current
front
setback,
which
means
the
setback,
the
zoning
setback
from
the
street.
So
if
it's
15
feet
on
a
front
yard
setback,
it
doesn't
just
apply
to
the
parent
lot,
which
is
the
one
that's
called
on
the
street.
But
it
applies
to
the
back
lot
so,
which
means
in
between
the
back
of
the
there's
a
30
foot
separation.
Essentially,
it's
kind
of
doubled
because
you've
got
your
rear.
R
Your
rear
set
back
from
the
front
lot
and
then
the
front
set
back
from
the
front
from
the
back
lot,
so
they
create
this
30-foot
buffer,
which
then
you
know
hinders
development
or
makes
makes
it
really
really
hard
to
use
tool.
So
that's
why
I
was
asking
for
that
one
to
change.
The
other
part
is
the
it's
restricted
that
the
square,
the
square
footage
of
the
actual
pole.
That's
what's
called
the
part
that
touches
the
street,
doesn't
count
towards
minimum
lot
size
and
I'm.
R
Just
asking
for
that
to
be
included,
included
in
and
then
the
you
know,
I
say
the
limits
of
one
flag
per
eight
limits,
the
limits
they
use.
It's
not
feasible
to
do
really
more
than
two.
Like
the
the
example,
the
Dilla
showed
it's
not
mathematically
feasible
to
do
that,
because
the
flag
Lots
also
have
limited
lengths
of
100
there.
If
it's
anything
more
than
like
150
feet,
then
it
needs
a
fire
truck
turnaround
it.
You
know
it
still
meets
all
the
same
standards.
It
doesn't
get
out
of
other
standards.
R
So
it's
just
it's
very
rare
to
be
able
to
do
more
than
two
at
the
most.
In
a
flag
lot
subdivision,
so
it's
just
the
way
the
the
way
the
math
all
works
on
that,
but
because
so
the
the
real
thing
that
this
accomplishes
is
that
Asheville
is
filled
with
thousands
of
double-sized
lots
that
that
double-sized
Lots
meaning
per
their
zoning.
They
already
have,
if
it's
R,
let's
say:
rm8
RS8,
4,
000
square
foot
lot
size
minimum,
where
this
only
works
on
lots
that
are
already
double
sized.
So
these
are
eight
minimum.
R
Eight
thousand
square
foot
Lots,
but
the
problem
is:
there's
no
way
to
access
them
to
divide
it.
So
we're
left
with
all
of
these
long
skinny
Lots,
with
no
way
how
to
access
the
no
way
how
to
develop
or
sell
off
the
back.
So
that's
what
that's!
What
the
flag
lot
trick
helps
for.
It's
really
it's
a
tool
for
how
to
take
double
Lots,
especially
double
Lots
in
width,
and
how
to
create
a
separate
building
lot
from
it
as
long
as
it
meets
all
of
the
other.
R
You
know
still
has
to
meet
all
of
the
minimum
lot
sizes.
So
it's
not
it's
not
creating
any
more
density.
So
what
this
is
showing
is
that
how
technical
tweaks
to
the
flag
standard
can
accomplish
this
and
create
thousands
of
New
Lots
without
increasing
the
allowed
density
and
I.
Think
that's
that's
such
an
important
thing
to
remember
that
this
is
not
changing
any
allowed
density.
All
this
is
doing
is
allowed
to
access
the
density.
That's
already
Allowed
by
our
zoning
rights.
R
Next
one
so
I
did
an
example
on
four
Asheville
streets,
so
I
picked
random
streets,
one
one
in
West,
Asheville
Nevada
Avenue,
one
in
South,
Asheville,
Ridge,
Avenue,
one
in
north
on
Washington
and
one
Central
on
Congress.
What
I
did
is
I
looked
at
what
this
shows
is
on
each
Street
like
one
one
had
47
Lots,
30,
Lots,
35,
30,
and
then
I
showed
the
New
Lots
that
could
be
created
if
the
flag
lot
standards
could
happen.
So
these,
what
this
means
is
all
of
those
had
they
had
double
Lots,
meaning
they.
R
They
were
probably
50
to
60
feet
wide
with
150
feet
deep
and
the
flag
lot
will
by
allowing
these
standards
to
change
and
that
works
with.
Like
you
know,
a
lot
of
these
have
the
traditional
kind
of
old
school
lot.
Is
the
the
width
of
the
lot
the
house
on
it
and
then
the
driveway
up
to
the
left
that
drives
to
the
garage
in
the
back.
So
basically
that
driveway
becomes
half
of
the
you
know.
R
Half
of
the
flagpole
lot
is
is
is
part
of
that
driveway
and
then
it
accesses
another
house
in
the
back.
So
what
I
showed
is
on
our
test
data
sample
of
these
four
streets.
New
standards
would
create
63,
potentially
accessible
Lots.
If
these
four
streets,
like
and
I,
don't
know
the
exact
extrapolation
math
of
this.
But
if
these
four
streets
are
half
percent
of
all
affected
astronauts,
then
there's
potential
to
create
12,
600,
new
potential
Lots
without
increasing
underlying
density,
and
that
probably
plays
to
what
vadilla's
slides
showed
of
like
how
this
opened
up.
R
How
many
acres
of
land
and
I
think
that's
a
beautiful
thing,
so
flag
lots,
I'm,
referring
to
them
as
the
Swiss
army
knife
of
zoning,
because,
besides
the
main
thing
we're
doing
that
the
amendment
you
know
the
amendment
result
in
more
building
lots
and
more
housing.
More
homes,
with
no
increase
in
the
zoning
density,
more
direct
path
to
accomplish
what
someone
could
already
do
with
the
PCA.
R
And
then
you
have
to
create
all
the
HOA
amendments.
It's
a
pain,
so
it
and
yeah
I
know
how
to
do
it.
Christine
knows
how
to
do
it,
one
or
two
others.
What
I
really
tried
to
do
is
create
an
accessible
way
to
accomplish
the
same
thing
that
anybody
could
use
and
that's
you
know
the
purpose
of
this
and
then
the
same
thing.
What
you
were
asking
like,
an
RS8
you're
always
allowed
to
have
a
house
and
a
guest
house
I'm
in
an
Adu.
R
An
Adu
is
allowed
by
right
in
RS8
this,
like
the
flag
lot
thing,
would
only
you
know,
it
would
only
work
again
if
it's
a
double
lot.
What
the
cottage
would
allow
in
RS8
by
going
to
two
as
opposed
to
more,
is
that
it
would
allow
the
Adu
to
have
separate
financing
put
on
and
the
ability
to
sell
it
off,
because,
right
now
the
Adu
is
tied
to
the
whole
parcel.
R
So
with
this,
with
with
this
the
cottage
to
go
into
cut,
you
know
two
with
the
cottage
it
accomplishes
the
way
you
could
sell
it
off
or,
more
importantly,
the
bigger
thing
is,
you
can't
put
financing
on
to
construct
them.
So
all
of
the
financing,
when
you
build
an
Adu
you
have
to
on
your
on
your
main
house,
you
have
to
have
the
income
level.
You
have
to
have
the
equity
in
your
property,
to
fund
an
equity
line
to
do
the
construction
on
the
back,
and
then
it's
it's
always
connected
with.
R
What
this
will
help
is
a
way
how
to
put
a
separate
financing
layer
on
that'll,
make
it
easier
to
build
more
adus
and
a
way
that
they
can
actually
be
home
ownership
or
other
tools.
So
the
second
benefits
the
side
benefits
I'm
sharing
is
that
it's
an
easier
path
to
finance
Adu
like
backyard
homes,
because
in
the
you
know
the
cottage
development
it
also
it's
limited.
It
limits
the
size
to
I,
think
it's
12
or
1300
square
feet.
So
there
are
size
limits
in
the
cottage
development.
R
What
the
max
Cottages
could
be
so
that
both
of
these
both
of
these
tools,
it
it
it's.
It
goes
back
to
what
I
call
the
Swiss
army
knife,
it's
another,
it's
a
tool
that
can
be
used
for
many
different
things.
It
accomplishes
many
different
objectives.
The
biggest
is
bringing
the
cost
of
housing
down.
R
R
You
know,
I
talked
with
the
land,
trust
people.
You
know
out
at
the
land
trust
about
the
idea
of
like
if
there
were
backyard
homes,
how
the
back,
if
the
backyards
were
separated
off
in
flag
Lots
the
flag,
Lots
then
can
become
community
Land
Trust
owned.
They
can
be
investor
owned,
it's
a
it's!
It
opens
up
so
many
more
options
because
of
the
ownership
and
this.
What
this
really
does
is
it's
removing
it's
removing
ownership
from
zoning.
They
still
have
to
meet
all
the
underlining
zoning
requirements
like
there's
still
the
it's.
R
That's
the
whole
idea
of
like
what
the
plan
with
the
plain
Community
act
really
does.
Is
it
really,
in
your
mind,
separates
ownership
from
zoning?
So
when
I,
when
I
do
a
planned,
Community
I
permit
them
as
a
multi-family
Standalone
development
permitting
going
through
permit
as
a
multi-family
development
with
little
houses
all
over
it?
So
it's
like
detached
multi-family
and
then
but
I'm
saying
it's
going
to
be
a
planned
community
and
then
we
go
and
plot
everything.
R
R
You
know
the
other
last
benefit
I'm.
Putting
on
this
is
would
be
some
positive
PR
from
taking
action,
because
our
city
needs
it,
because
we've
got
as
we
know,
our
housing
costs
are
going
out
of
the
roof.
This
isn't
a
this
will
have
an
immediate
effect
balls
in
our
court.
What
I'm,
showing
on
the
left
when
I'm
showing
the
slides,
is
the
average
land
prices
and
the
average
house
prices?
R
How
they've
come
up
in
the
past
two
years,
so
we're
now
at
about
six
hundred
thousand
dollars
at
average
house
price
and
land
prices,
you
can
see
how
they're
increasing
as
well.
This
is
an
efficient,
effective
technical
fix
that
will
create
more
housing
and
I've
been
able
to
bring
together.
For
some
of
the
you
know,
a
lot
of
my
the
friends
and
the
friends
in
the
industry.
Friends
I
know
from
everything.
I
do
so.
There's
endorsement
letters.
I've
been
able
to
you,
know,
get
and
who
support.
R
This
is
the
board
of
realtors
the
Home
Builders
Association,
the
Asheville
Independent
Restaurant
Association
Chris
Day.
The
engineer-
and
you
know
thank
you
for
hearing
me
out,
obviously
I'm
pretty
passionate
about
this
and
ask
for
your
support
any
questions.
F
Thank
you,
Mr
Bialik,
for
your
creativity
and
thank
you
staff
for
shepherding
this
through,
even
though
it
maybe
doesn't
have
your
your
full
support.
We
are
in
crisis
our
living
Asheville
comprehensive
plan.
One
of
the
most
striking
figures
to
me
is
the
immigration
of
our
Workforce.
We,
the
the
living
Asheville
comp
plan,
has
a
page
that
shows
of
the
77
500
employees
that
work
in
Asheville
58
600
commute
in
from
the
outside.
F
Additionally,
IT
projects:
rapid
population
growth,
45
000
people
by
an
additional
45
000
people
in
the
county
by
2030
16
000
of
those
in
the
city.
If
we
do
not
build
build,
we
will
be
pushing
our
work
for
Force
further
and
further
out.
This
is
a
really
creative
solution.
It
does
not
increase
density.
It
just
makes
better
use
of
land.
I
think
this
is
eminently
sensible.
F
F
To
consider
this
tonight,
we
can
make
modifications,
suggestions,
provide
feedback
that
to
improve
this
before
it
goes
to
council,
but
we
can't
wait.
We
can't
nibble
at
the
edges
anymore.
We
can't
create
allowances
for
density
and
then
provide
rules
that
inhibit
that
we
really
have
to
go
for
it,
and
this
is
one
vehicle
and
the
missing
middle
study
will
create
another
Suite
of
vehicles
that
I'm
hopeful
will
will
complement.
But
in
my
opinion,
let's
act
tonight.
H
I
mean
we
need
the
housing
and
I
believe
that
biggest
things
we
could.
We
can
put
many
hotels
around
here,
I
think
we
put
more
housing
right
here
for
workers
and
the
biggest
thing
for
homeowners.
They
have
a
flag
lot
in
the
backyard.
Maybe
they
can,
if
their
kids,
which
can't
afford
right.
H
B
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
open
for
public
comment
just
so,
we
can
get
that
out
of
the
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
open
for
public
comment
on
this
one
at
7,
30.
A
B
You
Mr
Bialik
and
just
gauging,
by
the
fact
that
no
one
has
come
up
yet
there's
still
people
in
the
room,
I'm
guessing
someone's
coming
so
please.
B
Just
make
sure
you
state
your
name,
I'm,
sorry,
Hunter
I,
don't
know
your
last
name,
but
our
new
pardon
Spitzer,
Hunter
Spitzer,
our
new
well
recently
new
it's
planning
Tech
is
has
taken
over
for
Avery
too,
and
so
he's
going
to
be
tracking
time.
Thank
you.
E
Okay,
hey
y'all,
my
name
is
Kat
with
Green
Room
Builders
I
am
a
general
contractor
with
a
focus
on
middle
missing
middle
housing,
which
puts
more
than
one
dwelling
unit
on
a
single
lot
and
since
starting
out
a
few
years
ago,
I
have
been
floored
at
just
how
many
hurdles
come
up
when
you
do
try
to
build
anything
more
than
just
one
house
on
a
lot
in
Asheville
and
I.
Think
this
is
a
huge
contributor
to
our
housing
crisis.
E
E
The
plan
communities
act
to
subdivide
without
creating
flag
Lots,
but
it's
complicated
and
it
involves
extra
steps
like
legally
forming
an
HOA,
sometimes
with
just
yourself
and
the
HOA
and
getting
specialized
surveys,
all
of
which
cost
multiple
thousands
of
dollars
and
the
whole
process
is,
quite
frankly,
intimidating
enough
to
kill
or
downsize
many
people's
projects.
Also,
most
Builders
and
developers
just
don't
know
how
to
use
this
tool.
E
So,
at
the
city
level,
we
have
this
simple
default
method
of
subdividing,
but
almost
no
lot
meets
the
criteria
to
use
it,
even
if
that
lot
could
legally
be
approved
for
a
second
structure,
an
Adu
or
a
second
house.
Without
being
subdivided
and
again,
the
problem
with
that
is
you
can't
get
financing
unless
you
can
do
it
with
cash,
you
can't
do
it
without
subdividing
and
then
at
the
state
level,
we
have
a
complicated,
expensive
method
of
subdividing
that
works
on
many
Lots,
but
almost
nobody
knows
how
to
do
it.
E
Regarding
the
missing
middle
middle
study,
I
approached
our
wonderful
City
Staff
last
May,
with
a
lot
of
the
hurdles
that
I
had
run
into
while
trying
to
build
missing
middle
projects
in
Asheville
and
the
conclusion
that
we
came
to
is.
We
should
conduct
a
fuller
study
and
uncover
and
address
more
barriers
at
once
and
I'm
now
on
that
advisory
committee
and
suffice
it
to
say
very,
very
supportive
of
those
efforts
but
finishing
the
study
and
translating
all
of
its
results
into
AUD
overhaul
is
going
to
be
a
very
lengthy
process.
E
It's
already
been
over
a
year
since
I
spoke
with
City
staff
about
some
of
the
very
same
flag
law
issues
that
we're
talking
about
today
and
I
personally
see
that
these
changes
would
be
a
win
for
missing
middle.
That
cannot
come
soon
enough.
We
have
opportunity
to
make
real
progress
on
housing
in
one
concrete
way
right
now
and
I
hope
we
take
it.
E
I
P
P
We
are
a
trade
group
that
represents
over
2100
realtor
members
across
Madison,
Buncombe
and
Transylvania
counties,
but
the
majority
of
our
members
are
in
Buncombe
County
and
we
previously
submitted
a
letter
part
of
your
packet
authored
by
our
2023
President
Steve
Barnes
I,
just
want
to
briefly
Echo
the
comments
made
in
that
letter
and
just
urge
that
this
commission
adopt
these
changes
this
evening
and
not
further
delay
action
that
could
have
a
significant
impact
on
addressing
our
housing
shortage.
P
In
my
professional
development
role
at
lotzar,
I
teach
continuing
education
classes
and
there's
rarely
a
class
that
goes
by
that
doesn't
include
an
anecdote
about
some
disheartened
buyer
client
that
just
cannot
find
a
property,
because
there's
such
a
severe
lack
of
shortage,
especially
units
that
they
can
afford
these
proposed
amendments,
will
have
an
immediate
impact
on
addressing
this
issue
by
unlocking
a
substantial
amount
of
lots,
including
mini
lots
that
could
be
developable
for
housing
units
that
those
buyers
could
afford.
P
We're
excited
about
the
work
of
opticos
and
looking
at
missing
middle
in
the
city,
but
that
process
should
be
not
should
not
be
used
as
an
excuse
to
further
delay
meaningful,
immediate
action.
The
two
can
co-exist.
N
I
know
it's
been
a
long
long
afternoon.
My
name
is
Steve
Barnes.
The
foreign
president
of
lots
are
I,
had
not
planned
to
speak,
so
I'm
unscripted.
What
could
possibly
go
wrong
here?
We
go,
but
commissioner
Barton
said
something
that
I
felt
compelled
to
to
to
speak
to,
even
though
this
is
going
to
be
on
a
national
level.
It
reflects
the
issue
here.
I
often
want
to
speak
of
numbers,
I,
don't
I
I
speak
to
National
numbers
because
it
often
reflect
reflects
Trends
in
our
Market.
N
We
talked
about
a
housing
crisis
due
to
covid
and
the
bottleneck
of
materials
and
and
building
come
into
a
to
to
almost
a
halt
for
a
period
of
time
and
still
trying
to
catch
up
and
due
to
2.75
to
3
percent
interest
rates.
That's
going
to
for
years
for
years
keep
resell
homes
from
coming
on
the
market,
as
people
will
will
not
want
to
to
move
into
a
higher
rate.
We
do
have
a
housing
shortage
locally,
Statewide
and
nationally,
and
it
is
a
crisis.
N
N
Home
Builders
Association
says
that
for
demand
to
catch
up,
it
will
take
10
years
of
building
1.5
million
new
homes,
not
resells
new
homes
per
year
for
a
10-year
period
for
demand
to
catch
up
put
that
in
perspective
this
year,
nationally,
eight
hundred
thousand
homes,
new
construction
are
protected
to
be
built,
and
it's
going
to
take
a
long
time
for
that
number
to
move
up
so
I
appreciate
the
efforts
for
the
Commissioners
and
for
staff
to
keep
an
open
mind
on
creative
and
innovative
ways
to
create
housing.
Thank
you.
B
I
wanted
to
make
a
comment
about,
or
add
on
to
a
comment
that
commissioner
Barton
made.
You
had
referenced,
something
I
believe
you've
mentioned.
It
was
from
the
comp
plan,
of
course,
no
I'm
not
going
to
find
it.
There
was
recent
within
the
last
couple
of
months,
French.
B
Winkler
had
given
a
presentation
in
front
of
multimodal
Transit
Commission
Transit
Trends
in
in
and
the
marked
increase
over
the
past
several
years
influx
of
workers.
You
know
transiting
into
Buncombe
County
in
a
particularly
Asheville
due
in
part
to
some
of
these.
The
SE
concerns
I
certainly
have
concerns
over
this
I
I
am
a
local
architect.
I
deal
a
lot
with
renovations,
adus
I
am
also
a
renter
I
would
love
to
own
a
piece
of
property
or
a
house,
or
an
Adu
in
someone's
backyard.
B
I
am
grateful
for
the
missing
mental
housing.
I
am.
B
I
B
And
and
I'll
bring
up
an
example
and
I'm
just
going
to
try
to
paint
this
picture.
Mr
salika
showed
one
image
of
a
potential
way
to
have
this
five
foot
flagpole
create
I
believe
it
was
six
Lots
on
one
parcel.
I
could
certainly
see
that
fire
would
have
a
problem
with
that.
Take
that
same
thing
and
have
it
only
be.
B
E
B
That
that
starts
to
say
that
is
a
driveway
with
you.
Don't
have
to
deal
with
the
shared
lot.
I
mean
again
the
rent
from
my
friends.
They
literally
there's
a
driveway,
and
these
are
two
night
mid:
1920s
houses,
no,
the
new
owners
of
the
house
next
door.
No
one
wants
to
patch
this
driveway,
that's
probably
20
or
30
years
old.
There's
a
legal
right.
I
B
B
I
B
B
Two
to
me
starts
to
I
I,
can't
remember
exactly
how
Mr
esophaga
worded
it.
It
seems
like
creating
two
units
in
RSA,
where
it
takes
away
from
that
idea
of
a
court
of
a
cottage
of
smaller
houses
in
this
communal
setting,
three
seems
to
me
to
be
the
low
end
of
what
you
would
would
be
able
to
create
that
maybe
it
is
for,
but
if
it
was
in
that
range,
I
could
start
to
see
wow
yeah.
That
could
be
a
quick
win
for
me
tonight.
The
flag,
one
I
I,
do
think
needs
some
more
I.
B
F
I
I
well,
I
can
I'd
like
to
address
one
thing
you
brought
up,
which
is
a
very
good
point:
emergency
access
and
fire
safety
I
I've
been
curious.
Whether
the
flagpole
portion
was
critical
to
provide
emergency
services,
and
it
doesn't
seem
in
the
way
that
it's
written,
that
it
is
because,
in
fact,
there's
a
provision
in
the
flag,
lots
that
is
not
being
recommended
for
a
mission
where
an
occupied
building
on
the
flag
lot
must
be
within
500
feet
of
a
fire
hydrant
as
specified
in
the
Asheville
fire
prevention
code.
F
Distance
shall
be
measured
along
the
street,
then
along
the
flagpole
portion
a
lot
and
then
in
a
straight
line
to
the
building
location.
So
we've
contemplated
this
we've
been
we've
created
a
standard
that
I
am
sure.
Are
you
know
fire
department
has
weighed
in
on
so
we're
really
just
talking
about
the
arbitrariness
of
the
width
of
the
pole
and
I
certainly
hear
you
on
the
shared
parking,
I
guess
my
counter
point
to
that
would
be.
Why
create
redundant
asphalt?
F
You
know
if
there
is
a
plan
in
place
and
a
mechanism
to
resolve
the
challenges
you're
dealing
with.
Why
not
you
know
why?
Why
create
too
long?
Why
create
a
long
driveway
in
a
short
driveway,
when
a
shared
driveway
will
accommodate
the
parking
needs
of
two
houses?
F
This
just
strikes
me
as
as
really
Common,
Sense,
stuff
and
I
do
think.
The
provisions
are
in
place
to
to
make
sure
that
you
know
these
additional
units
can
be
serviced
by
core
essential
Emergency
Services
adequately.
F
So
you
know,
I
I
think
it's
actually
a
fully
cooked
proposal.
I,
don't
think
this
is
Half,
Baked
and
I.
You
know,
I
I
think
that
we
have
a
tendency
to
shy
away
from
taking
bold
action,
but-
and
this
is
Bolt
I'm
not
gonna
lie.
This
does
create
the
potential
for
a
lot
of
new
units
in
our
city,
and
that
might
give
our
neighborhood
some
pause,
but
we
can't
be
afraid
to
to
grow,
and
this
is
a
mechanism.
One
mechanism
we
need
many.
This
is
one
mechanism
to
achieve
it
on.
K
That
point
regarding
I'd
just
like
to
on
ordinance
interpretation
I,
just
want
to
point
out
that
the
flag,
Lots
shows
up
under
standards
and
shows
up
under
parking
loading
and
access
section
that
talks
about
the
the
purpose
of
having
appropriate
access,
width
and
emergency
access.
So
for
you
to
say
that
that
part
of
its
arbitrary
but
the
other
isn't
I
would
submit
that.
K
F
Me
ask
this,
though
the
20
feet.
Minimum
width
is
the
person
who
is
creating
the
flag
required
to
create
and
easement
an
access
easement
for
fire
on
that
20
feet,
whereas
the
20
feet
just
there
as
an
arbitrary
with,
because
if
there's
no
easement,
then
that
flagpole
can
have
an
encumbrance
that
would
prevent
a
fire
truck
from
driving
back
to
the
building.
Is
that
not
correct
I.
Q
K
Just
any
ordinance
in
this
state
and
you,
except
for
the
one
that
you
found
in
Durham,
which
narrowed
it
to
12.,
that
was
really
unusual.
They
are
usually
much
wider
and
then
our
overall
subdivision
standard
says
nothing
less
than
15
feet.
So
I
don't
think
these
are
I.
Think
these
are
standards
and
usually,
when
you
deal
with
subdivisions
you
you
have
to
have
technical
standards.
That's
how
we
approve
subdivisions.
It's
not
like
a
conditional
zoning.
K
F
No
I
I
certainly
acknowledge
that
and
I
certainly
acknowledge.
There
can
be
impacts
that
we're
not
contemplating
and
appreciate
staff
and
sort
of
raising
the
flags
on.
Have
we
considered
this?
Have
we
considered
that
I
think
that's
entirely
appropriate
I
would
challenge
us
if
our
main
concern
is
orderly
development.
F
West
Asheville,
when
I
walk
around
my
neighborhood,
not
on
sidewalks,
because
we
didn't
create
an
orderly
system
of
sidewalks
in
our
neighborhoods
I,
see
a
lot
of
backyard
development.
That's
larger
than
the
house
on
the
street
I
see
ways
that
Builders
have
worked
around
our
existing
rules,
so
we
don't
have
orderly
development
and
I.
Just
think
that
there's
a
lot
of
subjectivity
in
defining
where
we
want
to
draw
the
line
and
say
no.
This
is
too
far
so
I
do
take
some
strong
issue
with
our
city
saying
we.
B
G
Okay,
please
yeah
so
I
had
some
questions
regarding
the
subdivision
process
and
and
potential
like.
Why
is
it
taking
so
long?
Is
that
the
length
of
the
staff
review
and
the
meetings
or
is
that.
S
Hey
y'all,
Chris
Collins
for
the
city
of
Asheville
is
planning
an
Urban
Design
Department.
Actually
first
time,
I've
said
that
since
we
moved
Apartments,
so
it
took
me
a
second
I
appreciate
that
question
and
I.
We
did
some
comparisons
on
the
data
that
Mr
Bialik
presented
tonight,
and
it's
not
quite
as
simple
as
it
is
made
to
look
out
on
this
level.
Two
applications
I'll
give
you
a
quick
breakdown
of
that
I.
S
S
For
reasons
that
we
don't
know
why
eight
of
those
were
in
the
downtown
or
CBD,
which
is
a
much
longer.
As
you
know,
you
all
see
those
level
twos,
that's
a
much
longer
different
process
than
a
standard
level.
2
review
so
that
takes
us
to
my
math
is
Right
20
of
21
applications
that
we
can
kind
of
talk
about
so
of
the
12
that
were
sorry
13.
There's
one
I,
don't
have
a
explanation
for
it's.
It's
an
outlier.
S
Of
those
21
13
of
those
were
either
approved
or
abandoned
or
withdrawn
by
the
applicant,
so
that
tells
a
different
story:
the
remaining
balance
where
our
under
review
and
our
downtown
or
CBD
level
twos,
which
go
through
a
conceptual
review
process
and
then
again,
which
includes
a
visit
depending
on
signing
commission.
Then.
S
Final
development
review
process,
after
that
technical
review
has
been
affirmed
by
this
body,
so
that's
kind
of
where
we
actually
are
on
the
level
twos.
We
did
some
further
data
earlier
and
we
found
that
since
2013
Level
2
reviews
have
ranged
from
37
days
in
length
to
520
days
in
length
and
literally
numbers.
S
Between
those
days-
and
we
could
probably
go
through
those
I've
been
here
long
enough,
I
could
probably
go
through
there
and
tell
you
oh
yeah,
that's
what
went
wrong
here.
That's
what
went
wrong
here,
but
to
characterize
it
as
level
twos
don't
get
approved
is
not
accurate.
It's
just
every
project
is
different.
S
Now
major
subdivisions,
we
are
not
seeing
many
of
those
City
anymore
Mr,
bialik's
Numbers
on
that
were
right
on
I.
Think
we've
had
five
in
the
last
two
years
and
maybe
one
of
those
or
two
got
approved.
There
are
many
factors
there.
You
know
we
do
have
less
land
less
ideal
land.
It
takes
a
good
bit
of
land
to
do
a
major
subdivision
because
we
do
have
Street
standards
that
require
things
like
50
foot
rights
of
way.
S
You
know
fire
truck
turnarounds
and
your
road
to
the
cul-de-sac,
all
kinds
of
things
that
eat
up
that
expensive
land
and
that
difficult
to
build
on
land.
So
I'll
just
say:
that's
my
conjunction
my
professional
opinion.
At
this
point,
is
we
haven't
seen
as
many
major
subdivisions
for
that
reason,
quality
of
land
cost
of
land
and
possibly
our
infrastructure
standards,
for
how
wide
the
right
away
has
to
be
how
much
the
road
has
to
be
built,
but
without
further
analysis
we
couldn't
say
for
sure
what
is
causing
that.
But
did
that
kind
of
answer?
G
I
G
S
G
G
I'm
wondering
what
the
difference
is
between
the
Adu
part
and
the
subdividing
and
like
developing
as
a
homeowner,
think
that
would
help
me
understand
it
more
than
like
the
Techno
I
do
want
to
know
about
this
public
sewer
thing
being
crossed
out,
I'm
very
curious
about
that,
but
other
than
that
David
application,
yeah,
okay,.
A
B
Where
I
was
trying
to
look
at
with
someone
else,
purchase
a
lot
in
North
Asheville
to
do
a
similar
thing
like
this
with
the
flag
lot,
and
it
wouldn't
work
out
actually
be
like
even
with
the
20-foot
flag,
so
I
mean
and
lots
of
people
are
doing
it,
and
this
was
a
lot.
This
was
a
completely
billable.
Had
an
older,
definitely
not
worth
saving
house
way
deep
enough.
A
lot
you
could.
B
I
S
R
R
It's
just
one
of
the
Lots
has
the
reduced
setback
it
reduced
flag
with
and
and
the
problem
is
because
is
because
of
the
that's-
was
explaining
the
mathematics
of
it
that
there's
not
enough
room
in
most
double
with
lots
to
have
the
to
have
the
zoning
Frontage
of
40
feet
and
the
Zone
in
Frontage
of
20
feet.
That's
that's
where
this
all
the
conflict
comes
from
and
that's
what
this
really
helps
is
that
it
just
doesn't
fit
with
what
our
current
original
platting
of
most
Lots
was.
R
So
this
would
really
help
with
that,
but
yeah
the
people
who
do
them
and
it's
used
a
lot
for
I-
mean
it's
really
common
for
General,
like
families
have
owned
land
here
for
generations
to
split
their
land
up
to
then
I
mean
deed
it
to
their
children,
and
then
it's
a
it's
a
way
that,
like
the
real
difference
between
the
Adu
and
the
the
the
what
the
flag
lot
could
help
accomplish,
for
that
is
the
ownership
and,
like
I,
said
the
financing.
R
So
if
you
were
going
to
build
an
ad,
you
know
build,
do
the
flag
lot
and
build
a
separate
house.
You
know
on
the
back.
You
could
deed
that
to
your
children,
your
children
could
get.
Someone
could
get
a
mortgage
to
build
on
it
where
otherwise,
there's
no
way
to
get
a
mortgage
to
build
an
Adu.
That's
why
that's
the
biggest
problem
with
adus?
It's
a
great
zoning
tool,
but
it
wasn't
thought
like
there's
some
practical
uses
of
it
that
don't
exist,
and
this
will
really
help
with
that.
R
This
will
really
help
with
the
with
that
financing
and
the
deed
address.
The
see,
you're,
sewer,
sewer,
question
yeah.
I
G
How
is
that
gonna
work?
Is
there
anything
being
recommended
today
that
well
I,
guess
yeah.
R
So
with
that,
but
that
basically
means
is,
is
right
now
that,
because
of
our
topography,
a
lot
of
lots,
a
lot
of
houses
have
to
pump
their
sewer
up
to
the
Sewer
roads.
That's
really
all
it
means
it's
not
saying
it's
not
going
to
have
sewer
it
just
right.
Now,
the
technically
the
Udo
states
that
you
can't
use
a
sewer
pump.
You
have
to
have
a
gravity
Fed,
so
that
means
your
top.
If
you're,
if
your
house
is
down
here,
you
can't
build
your
house
yeah
and,
and
it's
not
it's.
R
Actually,
it's
not
followed,
like
I've
built
many
flag
lot,
houses
that
have
that
have
pump
systems.
So
it's
it's
just
not
a
practical
thing.
The
other
you
know,
other
part,
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
is
like
I
know,
there's
been
a
lot
of
conversation
about
the
shared
driveway.
The
current
Udo
standards
for
flag
lot
say
use
of
shared
driveways
is
strongly
encouraged.
So
what
we
were
you
know
what
what
we
had
started.
R
You
know
when
I
submitted
this
application
in
May
and
then
you
know,
I
was
asking
staff
like
look
let's
when
I
did
when
I
did
a
roll
back
one.
Second,
when
I
did
this
before
with
the
Cottages
Shannon
Tech
was
in
the
seat
and
it
was
you
know,
Sharon
and
Shannon
and
Allen,
and
it
was
very
collaborative
like
okay.
Well,
what's
what
what
is
it?
R
R
Google
doc
version
that
vadilla
and
I
were
going
back
and
forth
to
address
some
of
those
things,
because
most
of
the
like
a
lot
of
these
things
were
already
addressed
in
standard,
not
in
zone
encoder
planning
code,
but
fire
code,
like
fire
code,
says
yeah.
It's
got
to
be
within
600
feet.
It's
not
500
feet,
it's
actually
600
feet.
That's
a
standard
fire
code
thing
that
that
any
house
needs
it's.
Not
it's
not
just
a
flag,
it's
any
needs
to
be
you
don't
actually
like
parking.
R
R
One
could
show
remote
parking
on
the
adjacent
lot
like
so
there's
already
most
of
the
I
think
most
of
the
concerns
that
I've
heard
they're
already
addressed
in
different
places
of
the
Udo
or
in
building
code
or
fire
code,
so
yeah
fire
code
actually
has
you
know
the
standards
for
how
far
it
can
be
from
hydrant
the
parking
standards
they
have
to
be
met
by
zoning?
It's
like
if
you're
building,
you
know,
if
it's
a
two
bedroom
house,
you
have
to
have
a
parking
spot.
R
If
it's
three
bedrooms,
you
have
to
have
two
parking
spots,
so
those
standards
really
already
exist
and
then
the
sewer
yeah
was
not
not
to
not
have
sewer.
It's
just
to
clear
up
something.
That's
really
not
followed.
Anyway.
It's
like
it's.
It's
just
that
you
can
put
a
pump
system
and
the
drive.
You
know
the
driveway
bit
the
North
Carolina
does
not
require
Road
Frontage
for
sub
for
subdivision
standards.
Buncombe
County
has
actually
Buncombe
County.
R
You
don't
have
to
do
flag
Lots
because
they
don't
require
Road
access,
so
you
can
automatically
say
I'm
putting
a
private
road
in
and
I'm
going
to
divide
three
lots
off
of
it
so
that
in
the
county,
that's
already.
These
similar
standards
already
exist.
What
I
like
what
I
tried
to
do
with
this
is
is
take
the
closest
thing
that
we
had
and
make
just
technical
tweaks
to
it.
That
then
make
it
practical
because
it
just
doesn't
it's
like
the
numbers.
Just
don't
add
up
a
lot.
R
How
to
how
to
you
know,
do
a
technical
change
that
that
makes
it
work
and
and
that's
what
I
you
know
what
I
would
really
but
I
would
really
you
know
ask
for,
is
you
know
your
support
tonight,
knowing
that
before
we
go
to
council,
then
you
know,
staff
will
will
tweak
this
like
so
it'll
be
it'll
be
fleshed
out,
but
you
know
to
keep
it
moving
and
then
yeah
I
think
your
other
other
question
I
want
to
address
is
the
the
two
lot,
the
cottage
development
you
had
asked
about.
R
The
reason
for
the
two
is:
if
you're
doing
two
lot,
if
you're
doing
two
lots,
it's
not
the
the
access
standards
are
so
different.
The
fire
trucks,
the
fire
truck
Road
standards
for
accessing
only
two
are
light.
As
soon
as
you
go
to
three,
it's
very
the
standards
change.
So
that's
that's
why
that
came
from
like
that's
why
the
number
for
the
two
came
for
incident
three
and
the
way
the
cottage
development
is
now
I
could
permit.
R
I
could
put
a
site
plan
in
and
say
I'm
Bill
I'm
going
to
do
five
and
then
only
build
two
there's
nothing
that
says
you
have
to
build
what
you're
getting
your
site
plan
for.
So
in
some
ways
you
can
already
do
it.
So
that's
what
I've
really
I've
really
tried
to
take
all
of
these
things
and
just
simplify
them
and
like
let's
streamline
this
in
a
way,
but
then
it's
just
easier
for
everyone
to
use,
rather
than
to
have
to
go
through.
All
of
these
weird
loopholes
like
well.
R
Okay,
well,
I'll,
permit
it
for
five,
but
I'm
only
going
to
build
two,
but
that's
where
that's
where
the
two.
You
know
the
two
came
from,
because
it's
the
simplest
way.
It's
the
simplest
way
how
to
do
it
and
it
accomplishes
for
the
it,
and
it's
already
allowed
like
everything
that
everything
that
pretty
much
on
proposed
you
can
already
do.
You
can
already
build
in.
If
it's
any
lot
in
RMA,
you
can
put
two
houses
on
it.
This
is
just
a
way
and
there's
no
size
limitation
like
so.
R
This
is
just
a
way
how
to
how
to
make
the
financing
and
the
ownership
separate
and
on
the
cottage,
the
cottage
you
know
in
an
RS8,
you
can
build
an
Adu,
so
it's
already
allowed.
You
just
can't
sell
it
off
what
the
the
two
lot
Cottage
development
theoretically
could
create
a
way
that
then
you
can
sell
two
separate,
you
know,
put
two
separate
financing
layers
or
sell
them
off.
R
So
really
it's
it's
it's
it's
a
financing
mechanism
which
then
opens
it
up
to
so
many
more
people
and
then
an
ownership
tool
that
then
it
allows
it.
You
know,
allows
you
to
pass
it.
Generationally
allows
you
to
you,
know
your
child
to
own.
It
allows
allows
you
to
put
separate
financing
layers,
allows
it
to
be
a
community
land
trust.
You
know,
there's
so
many
more
options
that
open
up.
So
that's
you
know
that's
some
of
my
thoughts
behind
it.
I
K
K
Why
you're
just
saying
let
don't
even
have
a
limit
on
the
lot.
R
Well,
I
think
the
natural
design
of
it
like
you
couldn't
do
that
many
so
yeah.
If
we
wanted
to
say
hey,
let's,
let's
say
no
more
than
three
I'd
be
cool
with
that,
because
you
really
you
can't
do
it
like
there's
really,
if
you
think
it's
just
like,
if
you
as
one
who
designs
subdivisions
and
does
there's
no
way,
you
could
feasibly
do
it
because
you
still
need
minimum
losses,
you
still
need
4,
000
square
feet
and
4
000
square
feet
and
four
thousand
square
square
feet
and
the
maximum
flagpole
the
maximum
fire.
R
R
B
F
F
E
F
Lot
scenario
I
agree
with
Barry.
If
we
keep
the
maximum
length
of
the
flagpole,
you
can't
do
that.
What
we're
trying
to
open
up
the
flexibility
for
in
this
proposal
is
you
have
a
a
wide
lot
with
substantial
Road
Frontage,
but
are
limited
by
the
number
of
flag
lots
that
you
could
do.
That's
the
scenario
that
maybe
would
add
a
couple
of
lots
to
a
subdivision,
yeah
sure.
Q
So
this
is
a
great
conversation.
You
know,
I'm
I'm
I'm
still
really
concerned
about
the
process
going
through
a
public,
open,
transparent
process,
and
nobody
knows
about
this
discussion
or
very
few
people
know
about
this,
and
there
is
concern
about
you
know:
Barry,
isn't:
building
3
000
square
foot,
homes
and
backyards,
but
when
somebody
does
it's
going
to
be,
it
could
be
a
problem
or
a
very
large
home.
Q
So
if,
if
we're
interested
in
preserving
some
relationship
to
the
argument
for
backyard,
Cottages
I
would
suggest
and
and
the
concerns
that
we
know
the
public
would
be
making
I
would
suggest
some
some
additions.
Q
One
would
be
a
size
cap
on
the
structure
such
as
it
could
be
a
reasonable,
like
1200
square
feet
or
an
far
floor
area
ratio,
so
that
if
the
lot
is
let's
say
four
thousand
square
feet
and
you
have
a
floor
area
ratio
of
0.25,
the
the
building
maximum
footprint
wouldn't
be
more
than
a
quarter
of
the
lot
size.
So
if
the
lot
is
4
000
square
feet,
you
could
have
a
one
thousand
square
foot
home.
If
the
lot
is
five
thousand
square
feet,
it
gets
bigger.
So
we.
Q
But
setbacks
if
you
build
to
the
setback
that
could
be
a
very,
very
large
home.
So
it's
really
about
the
context
for
the
size.
The
scale
of
the
structure.
B
Q
Right
right,
so
so
let
me
I'm
suggesting
at
least
six
possible
considerations
if
you
choose
to
move
this
forward.
One
size
cap
on
the
flag,
lot
structure,
two
legally
required
and
recorded
shared
use
access
three-
and
this
potentially
is-
is
to
give
greater
flexibility
to
these
backyard.
Lots
that
Barry
made
the
case
that
we
have.
You
have
a
rear
set
back
for
your
parent
parcel,
and
then
you
have
a
front
setback
for
the
the
backyard
law
so
potentially
15
and
15
feet.
So
why
do
you
have
30
feet
between
between
properties?
It's
it's.
B
Q
Another
one
this
is
this
is
on
the
books
in
Durham.
They
they
state
that
only
ribbon
driveways
are
required
for
for
their
Flags,
because
they're
concerned
about
impervious
surfaces.
There
are
some.
You
you've,
probably
seen
some
flag
Lots
in
town,
where
the
parent
parcel
has
a
concrete,
driveway
and
10
20
15
feet
from
it.
You
have
another
large,
concrete
driveway,
so
it's
a
Concrete
City,
so
it
it
could
be
that
that
where
there
is
not
a
shared
use,
driveway,
if
a
separate
driveway
is
created
that
that
must
be
a
ribbon
driveway.
Q
B
Q
It's
it's
exactly
it's
it's!
It's
too
three
foot,
sections
of
asphalt
or
concrete
that
are
poured
with
a
center
part.
That's
open!
That
has
grass.
Q
And
another
is
where
a
flag
a
butts,
an
alley
that
the
vehicle
access
must
be
taken
from
the
alley.
So
we
don't
I
mean
that
may
be
tricky.
We
have
to
finesse
that
because
in
some
cases
grades
and
things
might
be
might
be
challenging,
but.
Q
Already,
if
it's
well
usually
it's
the
requirement,
is
it's
on
a
publicly
publicly
a
street
built
to
private
or
public
standards,
and
most
alleys
aren't.
B
Q
And
this
is
one
knowing
the
concern
that
we'll
get
from
urban
forestry,
commission
and
others
that,
at
least,
if
we're
allowing
greater
development
by
making
reductions
that
we
should
have
a
requirement
that
at
least
one
or
two
large
canopy
trees
are
planted
on
this.
This
smaller
parcel,
potentially
in
the
in
the
buff
in
the
in
the
setback
or
something
like
that.
Q
I,
don't
know
we
could
figure
that
out,
but
but
this
is
going
to
be
a
concern
and
as
far
as
the
major
subdivisions
do
we
have
something
to
think
needs
to
be
added.
Do
you
want
to
talk
to
you.
S
Want
to
talk
about
that
thoughts
on
that
I
know,
it
seems
again:
Chris
Collins
planning
an
Urban,
Design
I
know
it
seems
unlikely
that
we
could
stream
together
a
vast
quantity
of
flag
Lots,
but
it
could
happen
and
the
issue
we
run
into
is
right.
Now,
when
you
take
a
piece
of
land
you
try
and
develop
it
as
full
potential.
You
generally
have
to
create
a
right-of-way
into
that
land
in
order
to
serve.
I
S
Lots
you're
creating
which
puts
you
to
the
major
subdivision
process
the
process
itself,
maybe
not
important,
but
there
are
a
few
things
that
come
along
with
that
level
of
development,
such
as
utility
allocations.
That's
going
to
the
water
department,
making
sure
that
they
can
serve
the
number
of
lots
you're
about
to
create
that's
the
same
thing
for
sewer
allocations
through
them.
That's
a
required
community
and
neighborhood
meeting.
That's
intended
to
create
a
dialogue
between
the
developer
and
the
neighbors,
depending
on
number
of
lots.
C
S
S
Is
it
just
two:
it's
not
a
number
right
now
right
now
you
can
in
Asheville
you.
If
you
have
road
service,
you
can
do
a
minor
subdivision
of
50
Watts
right.
Let's
say
you
had
enough
Road
Frontage
and
resisting
rod
and
you
could
make
50
conforming
Lots.
That's
a
minor
subdivision
Asheville,
if
you're
creating
one
lot
and
you're,
also
extending
or
creating
Road,
then.
I
I
B
I
I
appreciate
the
dialogue
that
is
happening
here
I.
This
is
I.
Think
for
me
personally.
I
think
this
is
what
needs
to
happen
a
little
bit
more,
because
I
feel
like
there's
just
a
few
more
little
things
to
happen.
I,
definitely
don't
want
to
wait
for
the
missing
middle
study.
Necessarily
I.
Do
think
that
we
need
to
start
being
more
proactive.
You
know,
I
appreciate
it
Mitchell,
bringing
recently
several
things
to
our
attention.
You
know
minor
little
things.
The
table
of
use,
change,
I
realized
that
was
huge.
B
B
It
seems
to
me
that
a
lot
of
the
things
that
that
brought
up
I
think
could
everybody
could
get
behind
I'm,
not
saying
exactly
what
he
did,
but
somehow
some
of
these
things
we've
talked
about
could
could
be
brought
in
just
really
make
this
like.
We.
A
B
I
B
B
With
the
continued
discussion
and
I
would
even
suggest
that
it
not
just
be
Mr
Bialik
that
the
missing,
whoever
is
from
the
community
on
the
missing
middle
study,
maybe
needs
to
get.
There
needs
to
be
maybe
more
than
one
and
I'm
not.
I
B
G
Is
it
possible
to
have
some
sort
of
TS
TRC
type
review
of
this
I
know,
that's
not
really
checking
the
box
for
the
public
input,
but.
B
A
R
This
I
mean
like,
as
far
as
public
I
asked,
actually
I
asked
ahead
of
this
to
run
through
some
committees
yeah.
But
yes,
yes,
yeah
so,
but
the
I
mean
I
I
would
I
mean
if
I
could
ask
anything,
especially
since
I
know,
like
terms
are
like
things
are
about
to
change
next
week,
like
for
next
meeting.
I
would
ask
for
like
emotions
that
it
moves
through
you
knowing
like
with
changes.
We
know
that
we
need
to
flesh
it
out.
I
really
was
trying
to
do
that
with
them
beforehand.
G
I
A
Q
If,
if
if
this
was
recommended
for
approval,
we
would
certainly
incorporate
you
know
the
best
language
that
we
think
is
appropriate
and
we
would
engage
with
different
departments
the
same
departments
that
come
to
TRC.
Is
there
anything
you
think
you.
K
K
I
K
A
K
B
I
A
H
H
H
A
B
A
B
H
Okay,
I
approve
propose
a
word
and
amendments
to
chapter
seven
of
the
actual
code
of
ordinance
and
find
the
proposed
amendments
are
reasonable
or
in
the
ordinance
flag,
Lots
four
flag
lots
are
in
that
proposed
amendments
and
reasonable
are
in
the
public.
Interests
are
consistent
with
the
city
comprehensive
plan
and
meet
the
development
needs
of
the
community.
G
Yes,
and
let's
see
staff
comments,
Planning
and
Zoning
staff
comments
will
be
brought
to
that
TRC
meeting.
B
B
Okay,
all
right
we,
this
is,
for
the
just
to
make
sure
the
text
Amendment
for
the
flag
laws.
We
have
a
motion
in
a
second
I'm,
going
to
request,
I
and
raise
hands,
so
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
and
raise
your
hand
aye
all
those
opposed.
No,
no,
so
the
motion
passes
three
to
one
all
right
now,
we're
going
for
the
cottage.
G
I
moved
to
approve
the
proposed
warning
amendments
to
chapter
7
of
the
Asheville
code
of
ordinances
for
cottage
developments
and
find
that
the
proposed
amendments
are
reasonable
or
in
the
public.
Interests
are
consistent
with
the
city's
comprehensive
plan
and
meet
the
development
needs
of
the
community.
I
B
B
Is
a
fruitful
discussion?
Yes
very
much
all.