Beacon, New York Planning Board Meetings, 10 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: Beacon Planning Board 1-10-23

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The City of Beacon Planning Board Meeting from January 10, 2023

A

Has prepared um some material is going to walk us through our rules and procedure right. Thank you. You're.

B

Welcome yeah, so we think I think you know what's the best way to start this year off, uh let's do a refresher on our rules of procedure. These were completely overhauled in 2018, but they have been reviewed yearly by this board and they were last reviewed in February 2022.. So we're going to talk through them, but this is an opportunity to comment on any changes. You might have any questions you might have. These are your rules. This is not statutory. This is a fluid document that you can change so we'll go through that.

B

You know there are some references to statutes and obviously we can't change those parts, but you know overall, this is your document, so I have a copy for everyone that you can keep close to. You keep by your bedside table.

A

I do have a hard time sleeping so that'll help you um yeah I, know. Randall will not be joining us tonight as well as Lynn.

C

Thank you. Sorry.

D

Guys, thank you, drew okay.

B

So the Rules start off with uh setting forth your regular meetings when we meet when we do our work sessions and I think that's pretty standard language. You know seven o'clock, we start our work session, 7 30. We start our meetings. We meet the second Tuesday of every month unless otherwise noted so I.

A

Will note that the workshops um are designed because, as members of uh board, we we do have a requirement by it's the county, I believe for learning. Yes,.

B

That's correct, so it's actually under general city law requires that you do four hours of training every year. The city can change that requirement, but it has not so four hours is the time period. So that's why we do these work sessions. They count towards those training. Hours and Amanda keeps track. So she knows how many trainings, how much how many hours each of you have, but that does not exclude you from attending other training programs. If Dutchess County does a train does a session, it doesn't even have to be exactly about.

B

You know, planning boards, it could be just planning issues or planning discussion or something you know about zoning that can also count towards your training. So if you ever on your own attend one of these sessions feel free to let us know, and we can put it towards your hours, if you're not sure. If it could count, you can ask Jenner myself and we can. You know, tell you we can talk to the mayor. We can talk to Chris, the city administrator and so you're not limited to just the training here.

B

In fact, we encourage you to seek training elsewhere, if you're able to and there's a lot of good programs held everywhere, especially now, post covet. A lot of things are virtual, so the.

A

Pace land use, Law Center offers some really great programs.

B

Yeah they do an annual meeting I think they just had theirs in December, but every December. They do a big program that counts towards training hours and then kind of dispersed throughout the year. They might do a couple sessions here and there and we'll try and keep you more appraised of those. We try and send emails when we get that.

D

B

But we can uh pay more attention to that.

E

B

You're welcome so that brings us to membership expectations, so obviously you're expected to do your four hours of training. Just like we talked about your, um you know required to attend these meetings. If you have to be absent, please let it let us know, let the chairman know. So we can make sure that we have a quorum yeah.

A

The group here is usually very good about enough notice on we've had very few, but some where we we're worried about whether we'd make a quorum. Usually Randall shows up the very last minute so um but yeah.

D

A

Always good to know well in advance, if you um again, everybody here is very good about that. Yeah.

B

And so you're not able to attend- and it's important because in order to take any action, you have to have a quorum present in person, so a quorum of this board would be fat. You have to have at least us can say five at least four members of the seven member board to take any action. So if we don't have a quorum, you can't do anything otherwise, you'd be in violation of the open meetings, law and.

A

Then, when we are only just a quorum, um let's talk a little bit about how we want to make sure that applicants who might see action from us on their applications should be aware of the fact that there is a chance with only just four of us, that they don't have the benefit of a full board and a full vote.

B

Yeah, so um just to add to that point, that's a great, that's great John that you brought that up in order to approve any resolution that you must have at least four yes votes and it's uh votes of the entire board. So, even though there's four members, it's not a majority of the four right, it's not three out of the four, it's always at least four. Otherwise the action does not move forward.

B

That's why it's so critical that you know everyone's here and that you let the applicants know if you're only going to have uh four or five members, because they might want to hold over to the next meeting when they'll have the opportunity to present to the entire board in case they might get some no votes.

B

So, and that's you, you know generally a courtesy to let them know so that they can make that decision early early on, um okay, uh part of your other jobs, are obviously to make sure that you're familiar with the materials.

B

um It's not great if you show up to a meeting, and you haven't looked at the application, it's really hard to render um a responsible decision if you haven't looked at anything or to ask um applicable questions, so always make sure that you're aware of what's on the agenda, what the materials are, what the what has been submitted.

B

uh We talked about the training. Also, you know when you come on board, make sure you're familiar with the uh the code, the relevant provisions of the city code, which are always available online um I. Think at this point nobody is brand new to the board, except for David, but I think you have a good idea of what you need to know. What chapters are most relevant to your review requirements.

B

And I know David from the zba. He knows he knows his chapters, we'll.

A

Make we'll make formal introductions.

B

A

We're very glad for David joining us.

B

um Okay, so then we have the the chairperson responsibilities. Obviously they're going to preside over the meetings, they're responsible for signing your final plots, your site plans and permit approvals. uh Any other instruments that have to be signed by the planning board are going to be signed by the chairman, and there might be other duties from time to time that the chairman has to be responsible, for he does in addition to these meetings, he has to attend.

B

um Pre-Conference calls to where we talk about the applications, and uh you know any other special call.

F

So the chair, the.

B

Chairperson does more than just be here, but you know kind of has to be prepared to lead these meetings and lead the discussion on the application. So there's more. That comes with that. So thank you, John for being chair, it's great all right! So let's talk about some additional guidelines for planning board members.

B

um You should be recognized by the presiding officer before speaking and or making a motion. A member shall address the chair and shall wait to be recognized these rules. They might sound silly, but they help create an orderly meeting. Nothing's worse than a disorderly meeting, I mean that's, it's not efficient, it's confusing and it doesn't create a clean record.

B

So these rules really help the efficiency of a meeting and help ensure that we are going to document everything that is happening appropriately and we'll have those records forever also makes it easier for Amanda to take notes as well and then produce those notes in the minute so uh conflict of interest.

B

It's important that you're, aware of whether or not you have a conflict of interest with an app within application. um A member is prevented for participating in a matter.

B

If there's a conflict of interest and you have to immediately notify you know the chair- the planning board secretary and Jennifer Gray that you, even if you're, not sure if you think that there's a conflict- if, if you have some sort of relationship with the applicant and you're like oh, does that create a conflict reach out to Jennifer or myself, and we can talk you through about whether or not an actual conflict exists.

B

Because if you participate on an application where a conflict does exist, then you could be jeopardizing that decision and make it vulnerable to challenge. So it's very important- and sometimes it's just a matter of disclosing your relationship and saying that I can rent I can review this application impartially and render a fair decision. You don't necessarily have to recuse yourself, so there's I guess there's three options at the end of the day. You know one no conflict at all. You don't have to say anything. Two.

B

You have a relationship you might want to disclose that relationship and confirm that you can look at it impartially or three. You have to recuse yourself if there is actually a conflict, and that would require you to step away from the table and you know to actually step out of the room would be ideal or sit in the sit in the back.

B

So you know that it's just important to be aware of those requirements and never hesitate to talk to Jennifer or myself. You know we don't there's no judgment on the conflict. It just happens. This is a small City um non-disclosure of confidential information. So this is critical. There is an exchange of of information, sometimes attorney-client, privilege Communications.

B

You should not release anything to the public. These are confidential pieces that remain with the planning board. That's critical for foil reasons. Once you release it to the public, then that information can then be released to everybody. It loses its protections, so make sure that you're using your city of Beacon email accounts and make sure that you're not releasing any information.

B

If you receive um this is kind of not exactly with confidential information, but if you receive an email related to a planning board matter and that email goes to your personal account, we recommend forwarding it to your city of Beacon email account and responding from your beacon email account that way, because if again, if there's a foil request, that would be that would um put your personal email account subject to review and you don't want to do that.

B

That's your personal account so make sure that your planning board issues are always with your city of Beacon email account and that you're not releasing any private or confidential information. Any memos that come out if they're coming from our office, they'll say, you know typically say privileged and confidential. If you're not sure you could, you should always ask anything. That's posted on the website.

B

Obviously, that's public, but um you know don't forward any emails, don't forward any memos, otherwise you'll ruin confidentiality which could create additional um disclosures in the future, so be very careful with confidential information.

B

All right meeting so I mentioned the open meetings law. The planning board is a public body. You are subject to the provisions of the open, open meetings law. That's article 7 of the public officers law. This requires uh requires meaning minutes to be taken. It requires um that you have a quorum to take any action. It requires that the Quorum be present in person.

B

um You could attend virtually I, don't think the playing board typically does that nowadays, right.

A

B

So your Quorum has to be in in person, um you know and all your meetings are open to the public, except for executive sessions. An executive session are limited reasons that you can step away from the public and talk about either personal information or attorney-client advice. Things of that nature. Another.

A

Important component to this is members discussing aspects of applications outside of the meeting setting um highly discouraged highly.

B

A

Right, we can certainly talk with public about the aspects of our procedure. What the planning board.

F

A

It relates to you know, planning in general, but not specifics, of active applications as they're being reviewed by us individually with either others or the applicant themselves right.

B

That would be a violation of the open meeting Zone. In fact anytime, you, a majority of the board, is together.

B

You know that might be again small City, it might be all at the same restaurant or go to the same Christmas party. That's okay! Do not talk about City business, specifically planning board matters that would be a violation of the open meetings, law and every meeting has to be noted, properly noticed and open to the public. So again keep discussions to you know this room during meeting time. That also goes for email correspondence.

B

You can't have start a discussion exchange via email, that's also a violation of the open meetings law. So you you know. If you have a question and you reply all asking the question and you know Kevin has an answer: Kevin should not be replying all you know that needs to be saved for uh an open meetings. Discussion so refrain from correspondence via email as a group.

B

Again, though, that's not to say, do never hesitate to email. Any of you know anyone in our office or any of the Consultants. That's why we're here for you for you um cool! So the planning board holds public hearings in addition to those, so you can hold public hearings in addition to those required by law. Right site plan requires public hearings. Special use permit requires public hearings. Our secret public hearings are not required by law, but the planning board has a tradition of holding secret public hearings if they feel it's appropriate.

B

That's like an extra public hearing and you can do that under your rules, site visits can also be conducted by the planning board as a group or separately by individuals. uh The determination of whether a group site visit will be performed should be made at a regularly scheduled planning board meeting. So again, this does not happen via email, where we're all like: okay, cool everybody. Let's go on Wednesday at nine o'clock.

B

That decision should be made in the public uh in the public meeting site visits are limited to touring and obtaining factual information pertaining to the site and application without substantive discussion. So you don't. You know how we talked about any time a majority gets together and you start talking about an application you're violating the open meetings off, but there is an exception for site visits where you're not having substantive discussions and you're. Talking about your observations. That's okay and those do not need to be noticed and the Public's not allowed to participate in those.

B

What's essential, though, is that when you come back here, you reiterate your observations and talk about what you saw and then have the substantive discussion. So site visits are okay again. The meeting should be noted during a public meeting, and no substantive discussion should happen while you're on site.

B

So you know- and we get a lot of questions about that as well proceeding. So the chair presides over all the meetings like we said and in the chair's absence the acting chair shall preside at the meetings. Do we know who the acting chair is.

G

B

Randall, okay, good to know. uh In the event, the mayor has failed to appoint the acting chair or where such members absent from the share. The meeting shall select another board member solo. If you couldn't attend and Randall can attend, then you can designate someone.

A

Else at this point we don't have a second, so we will sort of take that up. It may be a good idea, yeah.

B

uh Let's see so under New York state law noticing, a public hearing is not required after the initial public hearing is held and continued at a specified date. So we all know that, prior to a public hearing, you have to do your mailings and you have to post your sign. Your additional notice is not required once that public media public hearing happens. You can adjourn it. um We recommend always adjourning it to a date. Certain that way, if someone's interested in the application they'll know that they can attend.

B

You know the next meeting or whenever it may be.

A

There have been instances, in fact, one recently where we've noticed public hearing that public hearing hasn't taken place. A couple of months have gone by we've re-noticed. For that reason, right.

B

Absolutely because you want to you just want to be fair to the public, and the purpose of notice is to make sure they know when their opportunity is going to happen for them to to speak on the application. So if it of long time has gone past or it's not clear when that public hearing was going to take place, then re-noticing would be appropriate in that case, and always the sign images is continuously updated. So.

A

We got bigger and better signs a year ago, so.

B

B

So before the public comment, a formal presentation by the applicant or their representative should take place, that's going to allow them to introduce the application or to provide updates both for this board and then for the public. So they know you know. What's going on, the chair should identify all correspondence pertaining to the application previously received from the general public and enter such correspondence in the record.

B

Again, it's important to enter into the record, because that's what the um that's, what the history of of this matter and if, if it ever goes to an article, 78 or any other types of challenges or questions, the record is essential to the board's determination who should not make any conclusions that aren't supported by. What's in the record. So.

A

um Usually written submissions go directly to the city. Those are then automatically entered into the record right. Yeah.

B

Oh I'm, so sorry I also forgot to scroll. My apologies. Anyone in the public, these rules are posted on the planning board page. So, while I failed to scroll, they are available for all to see. I went too far. But yes, if you receive any um comments, though, you should always forward them to Amanda so that they do get in the record just in case they weren't sent to her yeah.

A

And there there are some instances. Most of this is now happening electronically, but some instances where we'll receive written correspondence at the meeting, so the procedure of recognizing it entering it and sharing it with the clerk is important.

B

Exactly um where were we, so no action shall be taken upon an application that is subject to a public hearing until such time as the public hearing has been closed, I think everybody at this point knows you can't approve a project until the public hearing is, is done or until C really the first step seek or complete public hearing. Then you can make a decision, so you know it's just important to be aware of the steps. uh Then we have some emotions. I'll, move past that I think everybody's.

F

B

Voting a majority of the whole membership of the planning board, including vacancies abstentions and any members disqualified, shall constitute a quorum. Therefore, a quorum of the seven-member board is four members. We talked about that a bunch a quorum shall be necessary to take any formal action and to exercise any power.

B

No member shall withdraw from a meeting of the planning board without permission from the chair. The chair of the planning board shall have the right to act on matters before the board as other members, including the right to make make and second motions the eyes and nays of all board. Member votes shall be recorded in the minutes.

B

Disqualification. Each member of the planning board shall vote on all questions before the board, unless required to abstain in accordance with any applicable law, regulation or other valid reason. For example, our conflict of interest reasons, I mean that would be the main reason um you you might step away or abstain if you feel uncomfortable rendering a vote after everything, you've heard and and don't want to say, I or nay, a membership abstaining shall cite the reason for their abstention.

B

Members shall be automatically disqualified based upon a business interest or financial interest like we talked about before.

A

Just real, quick on abstentions, um you mentioned the member abstaining shall cite the reason I feel it's always good practice too, when voting, um nay, to share your reasons for that, as well. For the record.

B

No, that's a that's a fair Affair request, so conduct of speakers I know that sometimes the planning board meetings um have a lot of public hearings on your agendas and they can go very late, and so it's important. You know that we have effective, efficient meaning, so that's making sure that the board is acting accordingly and also understanding how speakers are are requested to conduct themselves. So all persons speaking before the planning board are required to conform to the following standards of conduct and I'll make sure I get to this page. Here we go.

B

Speakers must step up to the podium to address the planning board before addressing the planning board. A speaker must give their name address and organization for the record. Speakers shall address all members of the planning board and shall avoid speaking at any other at any one member directly or to the applicant or to the General Public Presentation. At the meeting. It's not meant to be a back and forth discussion. The speakers are meant to come to the podium and express their questions, their concerns, their comments and then sit back down and the board can discuss.

B

You can direct the applicant to answer, but they would be answering to you not facing any member of the public. It's not a q, a it's, not a fluid discussion.

A

Yeah there are many times when public share their observations, comments, but also have questions, and we usually like to gather those questions uh right and you know, give the applicant the benefit of responding to them if they so desire. So, typically,.

B

The applicant's representatives are going to be sitting in the audience.

A

Exactly taking.

B

Notes writing them down, and then they can be invited back up to answer all the questions at once. A speaker's individual time to speak at a public hearing may not exceed five minutes. The chair May reduce such time to no less than three minutes. If the chair or the planning board determines that an additional time limitation is appropriate due to the number of items on the agenda or the number of people present who wish to speak.

B

Speakers shall observe commonly accepted rules of courtesy, decorum dignity and good taste. Any statements, comments or remarks made by a speaker. One shall not concern the motives of a member of the planning board and two shall not constitute a personal and or political attack or criticism of any member of the planning board, any officer of the city and a consultant of the city and the employee of the city or any other member of the public.

B

The audience shall be respectful of all speakers and shall refrain from comments and gestures such as clapping. Cheering booing I got snapping once yeah.

D

B

Sounds like a quieter alternative, but still not okay, private discussion, cell phone news and otherwise interfering with the meaning is not permitted. You know again, this is we're conducting public business. We want to conduct it efficiently and openly, so we need everyone to act appropriately.

B

uh Any speaker who fails to conform, their conduct to the rules provided herein shall be directed by the chair to see speaking and yield the floor. The applicant and the applicant's representative shall not be bound to the time limit set forth herein, but shall be allowed to speak for such time as permitted at the sole discretion of the chair.

B

The chair shall make all speakers aware of these guidelines for public comment. Copies of the guidelines for public comment shall be made available to the audience at the meeting, along with a copy of the agenda. These documents and the agenda and all the application materials are all posted online and easily accepted easily as accessible.

B

That word was very difficult for me. um Interested parties are the representatives not in attendance May address the planning board by written submission prior to the close of the public hearing, debate or discussion between audience members and the speaker having the floor shall not be permitted and then debate or discussion with the speaker. I'm part of a member of the planning board to the attorney City consultant, a guest or any other City employee in the audience who has information pertinent to the discussion shall not be permitted, except in the chair's discretion.

B

uh The planning board May advise and make recommendations to the city council relating to any subject matter over which the planning board has jurisdiction, including proposed legislation. This comes up a lot. If the city council is contemplating, you know a zoning change or um trying to think one, uh Scenic, overlay, District or, or you know, designated seating sites or I think we did historic properties. You know you are free to as a group discuss this legislative action or discuss changes that you might think might be appropriate and make recommendations to the city council.

B

But again, that's a public discussion. You can add it as a miscellaneous item to your agenda and you're free to have those discussions.

B

um You're also allowed to make investigations, Maps reports and recommendations pertaining to Planning and Development issues, including involving the comprehensive plan, use of Municipal land, Capital budgets or other matters related to those areas planning board members shall refrain from initiating or gate engaging in ex parte communication concerning any application or matter pending or likely to be pending before the board, with applicants and their representatives, potential applicants and members of the public I think it's important to note that it's its current applications, but it's also the ones that you are are aware are coming.

B

You know whether the city council mentioned that they're coming before you or you know it's it's kind of common knowledge that a developer has bought a property and they'll be coming. Those conversations should also not not take place. You're members of the planning board you're here to you're.

H

B

Have those discussions.

H

Could you just elaborate with the Latin means.

B

Oh ex parte, it means uh Communications outside the planning board. You shouldn't be talking to your city of Beacon neighbor and given them the lowdown of what's going on on these applications. I think that also goes back to violating the confidentiality that we have or the attorney-client privilege of some of the communications before they might be public or answering. You know your neighbor's question, you say you come to the planning board, we'll talk about it.

B

There we're all or I'll, make a note of your question and I'll talk about it in public, so that ex parte means so outside of the planning board um and uh let's recordings of proceedings again, it's required under the open meetings law that you have your your meeting minutes. Every meeting of the planning board is recorded, it's posted on the website, so we're all you know famous.

B

If anybody wants to see those videos, they are up from years back um and then, let's see we have, the official record of the meetings are going to be the minutes prepared by the planning board secretary. But we also have like I, said again, these recordings that are kept, and these can be part of the official record as well.

B

um The meeting recordings are retained as part of uh the city's retention schedule, so they're retained for several years, I believe it's five years, so they're not going anywhere anytime soon and if it's a big project, then they're actually required to be maintained indefinitely. If they're believed to have some historical significance or might come up and that can be designated at the discretion of the city, how long it'll be retained for and those are your rules? I know we went through them kind of fast um you're.

A

Right on time, Drew.

B

You know I I tried, I tried John. If you go back and you're reading these again and you have any questions again, always feel free to email, myself or Jen.

B

um If you have any revisions, make sure you bring them back next month and you can, you know, make a suggestion to amend the rules and you can amend these at any time throughout the year. So keep keep this close. It's.

F

A

B

You can I should have like laminated or something permanent. We.

A

All have laminated copies yeah. This is great, a really great way to start the uh New Year, so thank you, drew uh and I have to say. For, for the most part, these rules of procedure have been working very well for us. um So.

F

A

There's any uh thoughts or ideas uh that the board might have and want to bring. Let's talk about them next month, and so with that uh we have a special guest here this evening, who um I know wanted to share some of his observations with us, so Mr Mayor.

A

I

um Yeah thanks, um hey all um I'm, not on this side of the podium that often so it's I'm Lee kiriaku I am not here as a private citizen I'm here as the mayor I will not be speaking on any subject matter, even though some of them are in my neighborhood, but uh you know: you'll do great on your own and I'll stay away from all of them. I'm, mostly here just to say, thank you. You know for those on the board. You know your volunteers, your are, you know most important board.

I

You know the council doesn't really count. You know not us right, you're the front line in a lot of ways, I mean um and I just want to say. Thank you. We've got a new member David thanks for coming up and I appreciate all your service on the zoning board of appeals and I. Just note that you are in the front line that it's hard both because it's Arcane and a lot of opinions are Ardent and you know on the Ardent.

I

You know people want to come and talk and and we're here to hear them and I. You know sitting in that. Chair, you know it's hard at Council, sometimes because you know what people want to talk about. uh You know you just have to you have to figure it out how to let those opinions come to the fore and to allow them to come out, and it's going to lengthen our meeting sometimes and it's okay.

I

On the Arcane side, you've got help. You know the average human being doesn't have a clue of what the rules are, how this works and what the law is. But that's why the professionals are here, I, I! Thank you all for your help too, and please help the board and when things get tough figure out how to help them some more right, I think the trainings are important.

I

One suggestion was that maybe we could isolate the half hours label them as to the topic and stick them on the website, and so if people wanted to get those those bits of training, they might be able to figure out from the title which one's which and listen in and I like that idea and wanted to propose it to Pete and see you know if they might be able to pull that off. You don't have to do anything. I think it's on on Pete to do, uh and so that might help it along the other.

I

One. Just is that when you know things are tough, the professionals help them out right. You may have to step in might be hard for a chair to you know, tell somebody you're being a little bit online or you know to help, explain what the rules are or what the parameters are on an issue, and so you know where that's appropriate help help the crowd.

I

You know help the audience to understand what those Arcane parameters are or, if need be, helped the the board, although I I trust, they're, usually pretty well trained and oftentimes the ones you're trying to help as the audience to understand how best to express their opinions on an issue. um So.

F

I

Just wanted to say that I also just note that the governor's State of the State today focused on two significant issues. One was on Public Safety, which is not your concern, but the other one is proposing up to 800 000 units of housing in New York state in the next 10 years, and some of those proposals will incr include State legislation to impose requirements on municipalities, particularly in the Metro region, and that's just going to make the issues harder, not to say that I would disagree.

I

I've written a letter in the past to the governor supporting those proposals, because we have to address the housing issues in the region, but it's not going to make it easy and you're still on the front line and that's going to make it harder. So just you know more than anything else. You know just noting that. Lastly, sometimes your meetings run really long, I'm, unbelievably grateful when you do that, give yourselves a break.

I

If you need to split it up, do it I know some of you commute, and so you got to get up the next morning. I know you got a new commuter as well. I've done it on and off well pretty much on for 30 years, while serving on Council and I know it's hard um so give yourselves a break where it's appropriate and thank you. That's all I got thank.

G

You Lee yeah I, appreciate.

D

A

Okay, so um just a few other items, kind of new for um the new year, um Drew and I discussed and we'll continue this. As you know, we continue the meetings with Jennifer um throughout the year, but as we introduce the items on the agenda, we'll ask Drew to just give us a kind of a summary of a little bit more of the specifics of the application just to kind of level set where we're at in the review and what specifically we're focusing on for this part of our review.

A

A lot of our reviews are months, long right and many months, so it's always good I think to just kind of get a snapshot of for the particular meeting that we're at uh where we're at in that particular review. So we're going to try that out tonight and just another component Jennifer was good enough uh at the start of the meeting to share um just a little bit more.

A

In addition, as far as just kind of an opening um statement and so I'll welcome you all to the uh January 2023 meeting of the city of Beacon planning board, my name is John Gunn I'm, the chairman, obviously of the board and joining us tonight are board members. Karen Kiana, Lynn Werner is not with us tonight, he's been excused: Mr Kevin, Byrne, Jim, Joe Reynolds and we're so happy to welcome David Jensen, formerly our zoning board chair as our new member of the board.

A

Welcome we're very grateful for you having agreed to join us, um so we're also joined by. As we mentioned, our staff of Consultants, phenomenal Consultants um I know uh you've been working with us for years now and uh we rely quite heavily on your expertise and um uh it's invaluable. So um our uh Consultants uh city, planner, John, Clark good to see you 2023 uh our city, engineer, John Russo of uh lancatelli, um our new city building inspector Bruce flower, welcome, Happy, New, Year and as well. At times we're joined by I. Don't think.

G

Well there he is hi.

A

Frank Stark uh excuse me Stark, uh hip and uh sometimes Frank, Feliciano of Creighton, Manning and, of course um tonight with us, uh Drew, camels and uh regularly. Our City attorney is uh Jennifer Gray thanks for standing in uh the application materials that will be discussed tonight, including any memos from our staff, and we covered this somewhat in our rules and procedures and consultants and propose resolutions, and other documents are always all available on the city's website uh and available to the public.

A

Also on the city's website is a link to the planning boards rules of procedure, as we mentioned, and I just wanted to take a minute to explain a little bit further in addition to what we discussed just now about some of our procedures, uh we'll obviously hear each application in order of its notice on the agenda, and typically our processes for each application will first hear from the applicant um and then we'll hear also from our City's Consultants.

A

They spend quite a bit of time in advance of each meeting, performing very detailed reviews uh again much to our benefit. We always we always have those uh in advance, so we're also able to benefit from those detailed reviews, and so we like to hear uh from our Consultants as a part of the the process of reviewing those applications.

A

um If a matter is scheduled for public hearing, the board will then open Florida comments from the public. If you wish to comment, please step to the podium when called upon clearly state your name and address for the record, all comments should be directed through the planning board, not to the applicant or city staff or consultants, and please limit your comments to no more than five minutes in recent meetings where we know we've had very long agendas, we've limited it to three.

A

We do have one public hearing tonight, so we'll go five on comments and again based on the uh time of night or number of items remaining on the agenda.

A

We ask you, but we will ask to limit to three three minutes. We also ask that um and again this is, for the benefit of uh you know, efficient meetings, if um you know refrain from repeating comments that you've already heard stated. If you agree with the previous commenter, um please please let us know, but there's no re need to repeat the substance of the comment.

A

um We work very hard to administer a fair and open meeting that allows everyone an opportunity to speak without requiring our staff, consultants and board members to be here, obviously, hopefully, until the early morning hours. Also, the public comment period of an application is not designed to be a question and answer period, I think sometimes it gets a little challenging when, of course, people really need to be heard, and we do everything in our power to make sure they're heard. Sometimes it spills over into conversation amongst um other members of the public.

D

G

A

Try to refrain from and I actively work to make sure that that doesn't happen, there's a very good reason for that, and if we would like the city consultant to the applicant to address or respond to comments, we will make that inquiry and please rest assured that all comments, All comments are taken into consideration when we render our final decision um again. It's already been mentioned.

A

All the emails and other written correspondents into the planning board secretary has been received and reviewed by the board and will also be made part of the official record for the application um and, lastly, the board's Authority and jurisdiction is delegated to the planning board from the city council, through local laws codified in the city of Beacon code. Sometimes we receive comments that are beyond our jurisdiction to handle or address. We will try to identify any of those comments for you and let you know where they may be better directed.

A

Ultimately, our final decision on an application must have a rational basis. In the record. This means we cannot vote based on our gut or our personal feelings or reactions. Our decisions must be consistent with the city code and consistent with the evidence before us. So thank you for the patience for that and again also just for the public I'll mention we're all residents of Beacon 2 we're all neighbors of one another, we're all your neighbors we've. All a lot of us here have raised our kids together into young adulthood, college-age kids.

A

We love this city just as much as you do and we're here because of that we're here spending our time serving serving because of that. So I just want to make make everyone aware that we're also members of this community and we care deeply about uh the types of things that affect all of us, including development. So thank you for that and with that um we'll go to our first order of business and that is to unless there are any changes or modifications to that's a little redundant.

A

The meeting notes I'll accept a motion to accept last month's meeting notes into the record motion motion by Karen. Second, second, by Kevin, all in favor, aye aye great, so we'll go to our first agenda item and for the public. Anyone here for the prophecy theater 1113, Wolcott Avenue- that has been adjourned at the request of the applicant, so we'll jump to item number two on our agenda, which is the continued public hearing for secret environmental review on an application for subdivision approval at 12, Highland place and Drew.

A

We want to just do a quick kind of recap: super.

B

Quick yep applicant is proposing to subdivide a 1.6 1.07 acre parcel with one existing house into five lots for the construction of four additional houses. The parcel is the parcel to be subdivided is split between the R15 and the r110 zoning District. This action is an unlisted action under the State Environmental Quality review act or Seeker. As we keep saying at this time, the planning board is evaluating the potential for significant environmental impacts under the Seeker. There is a draft negative declaration available for the planning board's consideration.

B

The next steps would include completing Seeker if a negative declaration is adopted, the planning board May set a public hearing on the subdivision for February. If a positive declaration is adopted, it would move on to an environmental impact statement process.

A

Wonderful, thank you and sikra I always like to practice it State Environmental Quality review act. Sometimes that's hard to get out so great good evening. Good.

J

Evening, Mr chairman happy New Year. Everyone welcome to the board Mr Jensen uh for the record. My name is Taylor Palmer I'm, a partner with the law, firm of Cuddy and fader on behalf of the applicant tonight, I am joined by our project, engineer, Mike bodendorf of Hudson Land Design, and we're also joined by Gary Joseph. uh The applicant we're also joined by my colleague as she's, now known in the office Hudson Valley Ali fausner, so Ali's joining us, the associate of official office um as the chairman and Drew just mentioned.

J

We are before you this evening in connection with the Seeker review of the application for a residential subdivision of five Lots at 12 Highland place, so we do get paid by the word Drew next time. Maybe hopefully I can steal some of those talking points back following the applicant's last appearance before the planning board was actually back in November. The applicant has been working diligently to address the comments from the board, the public and, of course, your Consultants.

J

Indeed, the app that did adjourn from your December meeting agenda so that we can continue to adjust the program to make it a zoning compliant subdivision that incorporates enhanced site access and Landscaping, as well as maintaining reduced impervious surface areas and mitigating against any potentially significant adverse environmental impacts, as the chairman mentioned in the Seeker review, as Michael overview in a minute, particularly for the benefit of new members on the board. The updates to the plans also ensure that the lot area and the depths for Watts one and two are zoning compliant.

J

That was an issue from a prior redesign. That's since been updated from the private World layout to the shared driveways, as is more fully detailed in our December 27th submission to you all and our meeting with the planning board staff on December 13th. The lot dimensions are now, in conformance with the zoning code, and the wider private road has been limited for a tree-lined driveway, which Mike will review in a moment.

J

The lot layout and the proposed features also include the reduced impervious surface areas noted in our November 29th submission, and they remain consistent throughout with the lot area and lot configuration and the frontages, which, of course, there's also a member memorandum from the city attorney, which she may reference. As the comments from the Consultants move forward, we did note in our December 27th submission this tree line. Driveway is designed to enhance the Aesthetics of the project. Importantly, the driveways also provide some sufficient firematic access.

J

Mike will also speak to his Communications with the billing department and the communications that have relayed from the fire department, um as also noted in our November 29th submission, notwithstanding that there is sufficient firematic access for these residential homes. Our property is also surrounded pretty much on all four corners, three of the Four Corners uh by existing fire hydrants in the area. So it's a it's a it's a fire, hydrant Island.

A

I'm, sorry, are you saying the word firematic yeah, okay, I've, just never heard that word before. Thank you.

J

It's not a word. um It's it's! It's it's! It's! It's a it's a I, guess I'm, trying to claim it as a term of art. It's it's usable to just say that the EMS and fire department apparatus have access to the site and have uh got it. Thank you no problem.

J

You heard right as requested by Mr Clark. We also updated the tree removal and tree planting plan for the project. So that's on the application and we noted the details of the number of trees. We've added over what was existed and previously proposed. We'd, also note that we had further contact with neighbors uh and those that were on the public hearing notice list.

J

We held meetings, uh two informal meetings on Wednesday, November, 30th and then another on December 3rd, again trying to solicit additional feedback with respect to the redesign on the design for the project in general.

J

um In addition to the additional screening we've already proposed, Mr Russo's comment uh noted that we should include some additional along the property boundary uh with one of the existing residences. We certainly have no objection to that and I think that's an appropriate inclusion here. So with that um again, I'll turn to Mike bodendorf, please to walk um particular new members just through the um the updated design. Reflective of those comments. Great. Thank you.

K

Thank you, Taylor.

F

For the record, Mike.

K

Bodendorf engineer for the project, um so the last layout before you um again I'll just give a quick rundown of proposed subdivision five Lots three lots are located in the R15 zoning District Two lots are located in the r10 zoning District the zoning district line pretty much bifurcates the existing lot from north to south. As Taylor mentioned, all lots are compliant with zoning in terms of a lot area, setbacks um and so forth.

K

The the biggest difference between this layout and the last layout that was before you with a private road is we are back to Shared driveways and we have added trees in between the driveways and additional trees around the perimeter of the subject property to further enhance the Aesthetics of that of the subdivision.

A

um Sorry, real quick if I'm not mistaken, the new curb Cuts there's three of them. Now there are three carb.

K

A

um The what would be considered the south most one is roughly in the same location as the existing access current correct.

K

K

um A seller also mentioned we did prepare, uh updated fire access plan. I won't call it firematic.

K

That demonstrates that a fire apparatus can enter the shared driveway with cars, parked on the opposite side of the road and exit that that driveway um we did. We did provide that with our last submittal. um That's.

A

Your beacon ladder truck tracking document.

K

I could put I can put that up.

A

Yeah, it might be helpful for the public.

A

You're showing turning radiuses.

K

Yeah and then and the the truck dimensions were provided to us from the fire chief, so this this matches their fire apparatus.

K

um You can see it with cars, parked on the opposite side of the road it can still enter. The driveway um Mr Russo has asked us to take a look at the width.

F

Of the throats of the road as they meet.

K

The pavement of Highland place to see if we can reduce those a little bit and we'll we'll take a harder look at that and to try to further reduce impervious on the project.

G

A

G

A

The what I usually refer to as the skirts.

K

L

The flares yeah.

A

Okay, a couple different terms for it, and so the idea would be to try to start to minimize those a little bit more correct. Okay,.

K

And that's generally, it I can answer any questions that any board members may have.

A

None other than the ones I just asked um anyone else on the board. Questions at the moment.

G

A

Anything further from the group.

J

I know we have an open existing Open Secret.

G

Public hearing.

J

We did as the chair mentioned previously. We did previously notice for the subdivision hearing, but we'll be asking the board to consider setting or resetting that subdivision public hearing for a future meeting date, but we're certainly welcome to hear um and respond to any comments from the public or the borders. Consultants sure.

A

Great um so we'll go to our Consultants now John Mr Clark. um We look forward to your most recent thoughts.

E

And we did find that the the previous Private Road uh Arrangement didn't comply with the section of the subdivision regulations and we informed the applicant and they have gone back to a common driveway approach which is permitted under the code up to two driveways at two houses: two lots per driveway, um so the the plan as proposed appears it's not in compliant.

E

um The other two remarks. I have are minor glitches on the plans just so they match up uh nothing substantive.

G

Thank you, Mr Russo,.

C

So, as Mr Clark stated, they've gone to Common driveways, um you know, as part of that they'll have to develop maintenance declarations and agreements. As far as how those come driveways will be maintained with the individuals, they will need to uh prepare construction costs. Estimates for uh performance guarantees for any work within the city's right-of-way we'd also like to see if they could re-grade the common driveways to more or less direct and shed water towards their drainage collection system, so that it's not shedding out onto Highland Place, which.

A

Is forgive me this new element represented here. Yes,.

C

That's the catchphrase in there and then there's an inlet on the other side on the other course, um and then we have some other cleanup notes. With regards to the subdivision plan, the easements, there was one easement that was crossing Lot number two in the corner. It was unclear as to why it was crossing there. We've asked the applicant to take a look at it, see if it's needed. If it's not, you know, revise the easement and that's what we have at this point: dots.

J

On the Eastman, with respect to the easements, we can either typically redraft them as conditions to the approval for the city, attorney's, review and review by the Consultants to line up any easement areas that are drawn by the surveyor, but we're certainly pleased to prepare drafts if the board sees fit beforehand. But typically it's done as a condition. Yeah.

A

No, that understood um just wanted to see if there are any thoughts you had or anything else you needed from so.

C

It wasn't drafting easements.

A

C

There an easement line that crosses one of the parcels that could be eliminated; okay, let's just revising it on the drawing actually. At this point,.

J

Understood we can adjust yeah.

A

Great. Thank you.

J

um Just coming after my job, Mr Russo I get it.

A

Quickly around the board, um questions um specifically as it relates to secret and anything the the applicant has shared with us about their updated planning.

H

I have a question about the concerns um address, uh brought up by um Neighbors about safety issues and sidewalks and I know. You know that this is an issue not just for this development in particular, but there are a lot of situations like this throughout the city about you know, lack of sidewalks- and you know in this process- is there some way that we can address that issue.

G

As far as sidewalks good question, yeah.

E

I mean the city: every block in the city should have sidewalks. This neighborhood does not for the most part, and it is reasonable, if there's a sidewalk, to connect to to ask the applicant to provide a sidewalk that connects to an existing sidewalk, but it isn't generally reasonable to consider an applicant to put in sidewalks that don't go to any other sidewalks or you know, unless there's some City plan to Institute sidewalks in that neighborhood or something.

E

This is an area of the city that has very narrow streets and no sidewalks, and the applicant um can't be considered able to fix the problems of the city outside the boundaries of their property. Generally speaking, okay.

G

M

G

M

22, isn't it.

E

Well, like I, said, if, if there's sidewalks in the neighborhood, and you can start building a connection system, that's one thing: that's what I.

M

Mean who's going to build the first side well,.

E

The City generally.

H

Builds the first sidewalks there is a sidewalk on Grove Street, it's on the opposite side of the street and it's like you know, caddy corner from the corner of the um of this property.

E

That's quite a ways as I remember.

C

The uphill side you're talking.

H

Opposite side of there is a sidewalk that ends roughly around the corner of Anderson Street on the south side of Grove yeah. So.

H

E

Crosswalk, at the edge of that Hill would be uh slight distance, difficult.

H

Proposition on the downhill side on.

E

The uphill side, on the uphill, where this property would have a crosswalk, are.

A

You talking about Grove yeah,.

H

It stops in the middle of the block. It stops yeah, basically.

M

So yeah it looks like the sidewalk could cross Grove Street. The sidewalk stops on Grove runs from Jackson to about across from where Anderson is going by Google Maps.

M

Is there room, I was curious. Just looking at the plan. Is there room, for instance, for a sidewalk between Street and is it called gabion.

C

A

Two feet: there's.

C

A

Yeah that would have to encroach into the roadway, which is already narrow to begin with. Yes,.

E

It's a tough Hill to deal with.

M

So we just moved.

A

The gaming walls on the applicant's property, or is that on City.

H

A

Got it oh I see that I see the property line here.

H

There's the intersection that's um Anderson and this is Grove and that's where the Sidewalk Ends yeah.

C

So down the hill, that's at the bottom, yeah.

J

Mr Russo's office made a lot of history with that location and what went into that and why sidewalks weren't originally put in there because I believe they were considered by the city in that location and then not pursued.

C

Well, they were looked at the city one when they had that road reconstructed did not want to spend the money for determination of right-of-ways along the road and two. They were looking at improvements of the road and the utilities itself, and not so much as sidewalks. At that time, his sidewalks weren't truly existent in.

D

That area right.

C

And that was 20 something years.

G

C

G

Didn't know you were that old.

C

A

So safe to say, currently, the city has no plans that presence.

H

Is there any um traffic calming? You know, issues that are strategies that we could. You know incorporate.

C

They're already pretty narrow, usually one of the traffic calming things would be too narrow the streets to slow people down some signs traffic engineer.

A

A

You did offer uh your observations, your written observations to the application right.

N

We uh I haven't actually reviewed this.

A

N

Yes, as far as traffic coming I mean one of the first things they would do would be I think that wouldn't fall on the planning board. That would be something you could possibly recommend to the traffic safety commission. If they look at the neighborhood, but I, don't think that would fall on this applicant or honest project.

G

Great. Thank you.

A

um We do have that ability, if we'd like to we can discuss it as a board too, um and I would be in favor of it to um recommend this to the traffic and Safety Committee for their review. Any thoughts on that.

H

I would agree.

M

Well, as the planning board representative on the traffic there.

A

H

L

H

H

M

M

I think that's the least we could do yeah.

A

um So to that end, I'll accept a motion to recommend a review by the traffic and Safety Committee motion for their observations and feedback motioned by was that Karen second.

M

A

Jill, all in favor great so with that, unless there's anything else, questions thoughts we'll go to the public for our currently open secret public hearing.

A

G

O

Thomas Wright 24 Grove Street good evening. Thank you all for your service to this community, as I've stated in my previous comments regarding the subdivision. My main concern is the lack of Frontage for Lots, one two and three I've read the comments of other neighbors and clearly the lack of Frontage is a serious concern of theirs as well.

O

To be clear, this cannot be brushed aside and then be whining, rather simply pointing out. The lack of Frontage is an impact that should be considered in the secret hearing. So, as I did in November, I call attention the statement provided in the support of Nick deck declaration, which says that.

D

Quote the proposed.

O

Action is generally consistent with the character of the existing neighborhood. Unquote as I asked in November. How could this? How could the proposed Civil Division be described as consistent with the character of the existing neighborhood, given that there are no other residences in the neighborhood that lack Frontage in the form of direct access to the street? How can it be described as consistent, given the frequency and variety of complaints about Frontage that have been posted uh posed by people who live in the neighborhood in question?

O

I believe that it is incumbent upon the planning board to describe in detail how the lack of Frontage and the use of common private drives uh now shared private drives and shared sidewalks. The lack of Frontage necessitates is consistent with the character of the existing neighborhood. I also want to briefly comment on the note in the agenda packet from Paul.

O

Lyons I was also at the meeting held by the developer in Hudson Land Design and his characterization of the meeting as one where the applicant had their mind made up and were unwilling to make concessions to the neighbors. Is it accurate, I didn't have high expectations for the meeting, but I did expect that the applicant would at least pretend to listen to the voices of the neighbors. Unfortunately, this is not what happened as a result. The meeting was frustrating waste of my time. It occurs to me that this is really the heart of the matter.

O

Having the voices of the community heard, one would think that this is fundamental to the concept of a public hearing voting to.

D

O

Nick deck without addressing legitimate concerns, in this case the issue of Frontage, my neighbors will add to frustration and leave the community believing that there isn't sufficient hearing happening at the hearings. Thank you. Thank you. Can.

M

I can I ask the um ask a question of.

G

M

M

Thank you. um Can you say something about how fronted the lack of Frontage would affect the community.

O

Yeah I'm talking about the existing patterns that are part of the neighborhood that make the neighborhood what they are, and it is generally consistent throughout Beacon. But in that neighborhood in particular, you will find that every single house is immediately.

O

It is immediately apparent apparent what the front of the house is, how you might get to the front of the house. What the relationship of that residence is to the street I. Think that has a very profound impact on the neighborhood and having something which is ambiguous, leaves the general public, but certainly The Neighbors in question of what exactly is going on in this neighborhood I mean I.

O

Think the private Drive is also something which undermines the pattern of the neighborhood, because you do not see that anywhere else in the neighborhood, but it really wanted to hear from the board or the Consultants um about this issue of Frontage and I. Get that there is an academic or an abstract way to look at Frontage, which is the side of the property which is on the street.

O

But but it's different from what I'm talking about I'm, talking about a character of the neighborhood being driven by whether the house has its back to the street or its front to the street? Does that answer your question? Jill.

M

Yeah I'm wondering if it's, uh if that's something that could be um helped with just the design of the house, it houses themselves if they, if they were designed, so that the act, the visually the front of the house, design wise, actually face the street.

O

Yeah, so in in Lot number three, for example and I know, this probably didn't intend this to be a back and forth, but Lot number three, which is the most landlocked of of all of them: I'm, not sure what that would be I suppose would that be Grove, Street or or Anderson. Both of them have extreme topographical.

O

That would make having a front challenging.

A

Yeah so we stated our rules and then we immediately bent the month. That's.

G

Fine, absolutely fine.

A

um uh So yeah, let's, let's talk a little bit more about Frontage and specifically as it relates to what you mentioned um in context of sikra um about the character, um so Jennifer was kind enough to as far as some of the more critical items that we've been um you're. Welcome to thanks uh that we've been reviewing as a part of this application, specifically in regard to Frontage um and I've I've found this very helpful in at least my review of some of these complex matters.

A

uh Section 19520b of the code Frontage on improved streets States, the area proposed to be subdivided shall have Frontage on and direct access to a street duly placed on the official map, and if such street is not improved to the satisfaction of the planning board, such improvements shall be conditioned of subdivision approval. So we have some some some leeway around the condition of the street itself as it relates to Frontage. But so the observation is each of the proposed Lots has Frontage on a street placed on the official map.

A

Each of the proposed Lots also has a direct access to a street placed on the official map. Direct access includes access via easement over common driveway uh section 19520b. The city code is similar to New York's, state general law, 36 and 36, which requires a proposed directory to have access to a suitably improved Street on an initial official map, so that criteria exists already in terms of it suitably improved Street, um and then this was also helpful. Just in terms.

D

M

Building improved.

A

A

um Again, this is just language relative to what needs to be in place prior to the issuance of a building permit, but I'm just going through this, because uh there's there's helpful information here relative to each of these particular lots and how their Frontage is defined.

A

Frontage lot, one Frontage on Highland place and Grove Street has direct access to Highland Place Frontage on Grove Street direct access to Highland Place via easement over common driveway right um lot: three Frontage on Grove Street and Anderson Street direct access to Highland place by easement over common driveway uh about four Frontage on Anderson Street direct access to Highland Place via easement over common driveway lot, 5 Frontage on Highland Place direct access to uh on Highland Place.

A

The the point here is is that, based on the criteria for Frontage and the specific reading of the code and requirements relative to the improved streets and the improvements on the lots for access goes into defining the frontage, that's yeah. So each of these do have specific Frontage and then back to your question about because we don't have the benefit of designed Homes at this point. How? Because, right now, this is all about moving through secret.

A

This and any you know, issue as it relates to secret, rising to um the level of um significant adverse impact um and then through site plan. Approval subdivision approval all without because this is typically how these applications go. The benefit we just have pads here. We don't have designed homes, those come later right, so you can reasonably say yes, and we will have some impact and influence on this when applicants come to us for certificates of appropriateness for each of these Lots.

A

How that how that Frontage is because you know basically becomes manifest right, so the frontage and the character to some degree to your question will be driven by the design of these homes.

A

So the technical nature of Frontage has been achieved by the you know um by the application and the configuration. Then the question is: you know the sort of more broad question about the aesthetic and the character right. So what I? What I'm getting at is that the the potential does exist for that to take place.

A

Is that helpful.

M

It's helpful to me: I mean I, understand that it's basically, um it will be decided in the design phase. That's what we're saying.

A

Yes, and so to that end, though, inherently the Lots themselves, the configuration um they technically meet the requirements, but also they provide the inherent possibility for them to meet character as well through.

J

The design of the homes I would just know for the benefit of the board. The existing home, which you can see on the screen in the top left corner of the discipline itself, actually faces Highland place. So it's set back pretty much as far back in the lot as it can go, albeit as Frontage in a separate Road. It's generally consistent with that character, and you and you all run into this all the time with Corner Lots in particular. This one happens to be a triple play of.

A

Course, which one's the front right on a corner right.

J

So this issue does come up and is generally consistent with lots that have multiple frontages.

H

May I ask a question: yes,.

G

H

May um I'm curious about the walkway that connects Lots, one two and three along what would be the Grove Street side? Could you speak to like? Does each house just own the portion of the walkway that is on their lot or how do you see that functioning.

K

Yes, um so that.

K

So how that came about or no.

H

I'm uh is: does each lot? Does each house only own? The portion like owns the portion of the walkway, so if I'm in lot three and.

K

H

Snowy day, yeah.

K

H

I want to get down that walkway I am depending on my neighbors to you, know basically shovel their portion of the walkway.

K

Correct similar to how everybody's sidewalk is they're required to shovel their sidewalk, so.

H

It's basically a.

D

Private sidewalk correct thank.

J

You, notably, these were also modified based on public.

H

J

Too so originally there was a separate access mechanism, but these were refined to reflect public comments to make these the system of walkways.

A

And keep in mind board and public. We we will have the opportunity to continue to ask those kinds of questions and um hear input from the public and continue to discuss this in the the subdivision. Part of the the show you know so um great question, um just as it relates to sikra and the open public hearing. Anyone else from the public.

P

Nicole Gifford 21 Highlands.

P

um Our concerns continue to be rooted in the fact that all five properties, um the access to those properties or the true front of the house, where residents and their guests are going to enter or exit or their garbage, is going to be retrieved where their mail is going to be delivered, is on one street and not shared across the three streets that are being called. Frontage are concerns about increased traffic safety. Parking have not been addressed with the updated plans on the emergency vehicle plan.

P

Will there be any parking regulations on the new homeowners on the west side of Highland? If not, it's likely that the residents and or guests would park on that side of the street since there's no parking or access to the homes uh via Grover Anderson, which would prevent the vehicles from accessing those lots.

P

uh The proposal claims there will be no significant adverse impact on traffic. The idea that doubling the amount of homes, people cars that can only funnel in and out of a tiny Street will not result in a significant change and traffic is simply not true, and that the guideline being used is anything less than 100 trips during a peak hour for a resin to block doesn't seem like an appropriate threshold.

P

um We're talking about the narrowness of the streets. We're talking about the danger of grocery I. Think that this increased level of density is inappropriate for the street, the size of Highland to be at the brunt of without any true Frontage. That helps alleviate traffic flow, which raises again safety concerns for the existing and new residents. Thanks.

G

F

Teresa craft Liberty Street, thanks for reminding us that the planning board holds more power than you realize. As an appointed body, you can change the outcome of this extensive, build out proposed by the city using the city's own code simply put follow the city, Environmental Quality code, 107-3, intent, C, protection of the environment and the enhancement of human and Community Resources shall be given appropriate weight along with social and economic considerations, and all these factors shall be considered together in reaching decisions on proposed actions.

F

A suitable balance of social, economic and environmental factors shall be incorporated into the planning and decision-making process of all agencies: the environment, as described in the city code, the physical conditions, which will be affected by a proposed action, including Land, Air, Water, minerals, flora, fauna, noise, features of historic and or aesthetic significance, existing patterns of population concentration, distribution or growth, and existing community or neighborhood character.

F

Not much has changed by the developer to scale back this over development on a tiny parcel with all the public pushback at previous public hearings. The developer is still uncompromising and not willing to work with his direct neighbors. Clearly, tone deaf as a resident in the project area. I am one of hundreds that will be affected daily.

F

Looking at the packets exhibit a ladder truck tracking the submitted, drawing showing a single fire truck maneuvering, it's a one-way in dead-end type, driveway, with no space to maneuver any size, large truck, much less a fire truck and the plat reads fire truck not to scale what else isn't. Typically, there are more than one fire trucks at the scene of a fire. I think the city should take lessons from the fire that occurred on Wolcott Avenue just one week ago.

F

It takes a lot of space for fire and rescue crews to put out a fire and that event had a major, wide, open, roadway and staging area. The proposed house located on the northwest Lot number three stands no chance of safety. If something should happen within this small shared driveway location, it will be a disaster waiting to happen all the more reasons to cut back on the flooding of the city, with accessory dwellings on every parcel I'm, urging the planning board to draw the line and preserve our neighborhoods and our quality of life.

F

Please deny any approval for this project. Thank you.

G

Q

Hi everyone happy New, Year, Jody, mccrito, 11,.

D

Q

There's more to our zoning than lot size and a one acre lot in the same. A one acre lot in the same zoning District that possessed direct Street Frontage to streets that it actually accessed or sat on a much wider street with sidewalks would result in an entirely different conversation. But that is not the case with 12 Highland, as was mentioned previously, no zoning laws can spot Zone specific, problematic, Lots such as this one, and that is why we have planning boards.

Q

Our code states that the maneuvering area permitted to needed to permit parked vehicles to enter and exit off street parking spaces shall have a width of at least 24 feet.

Q

These share, driveways are only 18 feet wide and Highland itself is only 22 feet. How is a vehicle supposed to maneuver into a spot in one of these driveways, particularly in lot too, especially if there's already a car in there? How are neighbors going to handle basic issues like snow removal? Lot 3 in particular looks like a nightmare for that.

Q

How much of the city's time and resources are going to be taken up when one homeowner doesn't have the money on hand for required maintenance or when they disagree on plowing Services I know that the city has approved subdivisions in the past that have ended up costing taxpayers money.

Q

um Who is responsible for arbitrating these issues as they arise? This particular developer under the name Beacon Contracting has already engaged in a legal battle stemming from another project in the city.

Q

Our code also States, the area proposed to be subdivided shall have Frontage on and direct access to a street duly placed on the official map, and if such tree does not improve to the satisfaction of the planning board, such improvements shall be a condition of subdivision approval. Highland Police would have to be significantly improved and widened for the subdivision to be safe, convenient and good for the welfare of the people who live. There.

Q

I really appreciate the discussion that you just had but pointing out how dangerous it is and the fact that we can't make it less dangerous, isn't a reason to make it more dangerous um and issue brought up at the last hearing. Was emergency vehicle access with cars parked on both sides of Highland raising potential issues of limiting parking on the east side? The applicant submitted a response to that, but it contained no vehicles on the west side of Highland, so that doesn't resolve the issue.

Q

It just moves it from one side of the street to the other, with the large curb cut shown for the driveways, the new residents will be forced to park on the east side anyway, which is where all the visitors on Grove Park, since there was no space for Park cars there, which still leaves us unable to park in front of our homes. The response also showed the cars parked on the east side, pretty much on my grass. Where are my kids supposed to play?

Q

How are the people in the neighborhood supposed to ride their bikes and walk their dogs? What happens when there's snow on the road? Where do the tank, garbage and recycling cans from all of these homes coming out of two share driveways that are right next to each other supposed to fit into this? Where all of these cars are there, our city code, States, the planning board, shall comply with Seeker prior to granting any approvals it may present and analyze in general terms, hypothetical scenarios that could and or likely to occur.

Q

Everyone who has visited this area understands the limitations of this space and can clearly see that this project will result in unsafe conditions for everyone who lives on Highland and every child who walks past it to Main Street or any of our schools, including Forest Hill Elementary, which is right down the road. This project creates an alarming precedent for creating dangerous and unnecessary congestion in our neighborhoods.

Q

It will significantly decrease the quality of life for all residents in the area, which is my why more than 200 of your neighbors have already signed a petition urging you not to allow this to happen. No one is disputing this developer's right to build and make his money. He would still make plenty of money, just flipping the existing house on the property, and he would make even more with the two additional homes that the property actually has.

Q

The frontage foreign access to allowing five lots to be crammed into this space would be detrimental to the health, safety, convenience and well-being of everyone in the area, and it should not be permitted. I also have here.

Q

I know this was emailed to you, but it was emailed to you late in the day and I know that you guys all work and you might not have seen it, but this is the applicant's rendering of the fire truck access.

Q

A friend of mine did a little work on it and showed what it would actually look like with all of the cars there and with the cars parked on the east side of Main Street actually parked the way cars normally park on the street. Instead of all my grass, so I have that I have.

A

Thank you. Yes, we have also. We have that electronically as well. Thank you um just since, since it's come up now, the second time in public comment this concept of spot zoning, which at least as far as my understanding of what spot zoning, is, um if not something that's occurring here, I just want to, if you could just drew, help, Define the uh topic of spot zoning, sure.

B

Spot zoning occurs when, when um the governing body adopts legislation or zoning legislation to rezone a parcel on its own, that is not compliant with any anything surrounding it um so say you have an R1 property and you're going to rezone, just that one parcel for multi-family when it's not connected to any other multi-family zoning District. That would be spot. Zoning you're rezoning a single parcel to benefit that property owner. That's not occurring here. This is not spot zoning. There is no zoning. That's changing.

A

And then this would require some form of rezone correct right so which is not taking place here. Correct.

B

They are not amending the zoning whatsoever. They're working within the confines of the two zoning districts that exist got.

D

A

I understand I I, just I heard the term twice once in earlier public comment and now tonight. So I just wanted to make sure that, for the for the topic of spot zoning, that we were all clear on what that means.

A

um Greet anyone else from the public. So let's, let's talk about a few of the the things that we've heard concerns raised about.

G

A

Sorry please: yes, please.

R

Your first, my name, is Everett Gifford I live at 21, Highland um I'm, not going to reiterate everything but I. Do you already guys already brought up um the 20 23 12 regarding Street Frontage, which I think it's really at the heart of this issue? At least in my opinion, it seems like the only recourse we have is the planning board and and how it pertains to building shared driveways and all that.

R

So um in my opinion and I, think I know of the opinion of my neighbors is that the current plan is going to put too many people um all within that area and with the only access actually being highly in place.

R

um I mean I think like the the idea of the access to Highland place, but Frontage is a bit of a workaround, so um it would be great if it could be reduced. The overall number of people who are going to be eventually living there and I think the talk on sidewalks was interesting to me because, while I agree, I, don't think that the applicant would have to build sidewalks all the way down to Grove, there's not enough room to do that.

R

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that the the current layout doesn't allow for, or it doesn't really suit it for that many people uh all going right on Highland place. So um you know I really think it comes back to the fact of whether building Private Drive shared driveways on this kind of unique piece of property is going to it have everyone's best safety in mind, and thank you very much. Thank.

G

S

Hey everyone: my name is Patty galaberda I live on 43, Grove, Street and every month, I say to myself. Why do I keep going to these meetings.

S

And this time there was something sticking in my head and it was a meeting I had with Gary. While we were sitting on my front porch and I asked Gary. Why are you doing this and he very honestly and very quickly said to me because I can and I said what do you mean you can? And he said the city makes these zoning rules not me they say: I can do it so I'm doing it and I said, but it's going to ruin our neighborhood, but I can do it.

S

He said so I want you to think about that, because it's stuck in my head, then I looked at his Blueprints and I said, but you don't have enough room in the front I'm. Looking at the setbacks, and you don't have enough in the front he goes yeah I. Do they change the setbacks? Well, when did they do that?

S

Just a little while ago? Well I got noticed of this meeting and I'm here, because I got noticed, but they changed the setbacks by 10 feet, cutting away 10 feet of Road Frontage. We didn't get notice of that, and it was for this all this R1 110 and 111 whatever it is. Okay, so that allowed him to put a bigger house on a smaller piece of property with less Frontage, and he can't even access Grove Street from them. He can't access Anderson, but then I said: okay, this is environment environment.

S

How does it affect the community you're doubling the size that the neighborhood you're not only doubling the size of the neighborhood but you're, doubling the number of people and two of those houses on the corner of Grove and Highland? Have no backyards have no side yards. If there's a fire between those two houses, they're both going up I mean the character of my neighborhood. Is everybody has a backyard everybody hangs out in the side yard? We don't all have front yards, that's true, but we have a little something these guys.

S

Don't so I guess that's why I keep coming here, even though I hate public speaking I keep trying it. So thank you for making me do that, but I mean I guess, that's all I have to say that doesn't I don't know as a neighbor who loves my neighbors I'm, not welcoming this and I, don't think it's safe, I walk every day and I look really really really hard when I cross my street from Grove I'm right at the top of the hill.

S

So you don't know where I live but I'm at the top of the hill right before Highland and I come out and I. Look this way and this way because cars go really fast and it's a very narrow road and there is no place for a sidewalk I wish. There was I wish the road had been pushed.

S

The wall had been pushed back, so we could have had one you put one on my side: I have no sidewalk I mean I, have no front yard, so it it and the road is very narrow and if a bus is coming up it a car is not going to or if a bus is going down it. We wait at the bottom of the hill. It's just what we do or we wait at the top of the hill.

S

It's a dangerous corner and I want Gary to make his money, but I think he could make his money and still have maybe three houses there or less. This is dangerous and it's non-conforming. Thank you for listening to me.

G

Thank you, John.

A

I know recently, the city went through a process of updating and sort of reorganizing. Some of the zoning tables uh in relationship to requirements did any of those changes affect setback requirements in any of our zones. Yes,.

E

As part of the accessory apartment amendments which the council discussed for over a year, they agreed to lower the front yard setbacks by five feet in every residential district, which would allow for bigger backyards and more possibility of accessory Apartments, which was the goal of the Amendments, is to encourage accessory Apartments as providing a housing, affordability and and diversity way of looking at things. So.

F

E

Did after a year of looking at it, changed the zoning setback from in this District or in the r 1-5 district from I, think it was 15 feet to 10 feet and in the 10 from 20 feet to 15 feet or something like that.

D

E

So they'd knock five feet off all of the front yards in all of the residential districts.

G

A

Support of Parcels having the capacity or capability to support accessory right.

E

And and also the original standards, which date back to 1974, um were fairly Suburban in character, they had bigger setbacks than historically that's why? When a lot of new subdivisions come in, we asked actually ask the developer to come forward on the lot more than the setback allows. There's a provision in the code to allow that well I recommended to the council, and they agreed that that they should have shorter setbacks, because, historically, we had sort of Beacon head, shorter setbacks.

D

E

In every District and.

G

E

Would allow for bigger backyards? That was the point of.

A

It right and and usually that's very helpful, I've seen it happen before where, where you have existing non-conforming, it was, you know, neighboring Parcels that are existing non-conforming, because the zoning changed yes and then you know you come along with a new building where the new setback requirement would mean it would sort of take away from the consistency along the frontage right. We've said: okay, move it up. Yeah.

E

There's a provision: the code allows you to be consistent with housing Furniture along that portion of the block yeah.

A

And those those changes.

G

A

I, remember these because we debut stuff like this before the council, then yeah.

E

In this case, however, it should be noted that the housings haven't moved, even though the setback moved in the middle of this process, the housings haven't moved the.

A

Places for this particular applicant.

E

For this particular applicant, they haven't moved the houses forward. They've provided the option now of having a covered porch instead of an open, porch right.

A

Although again this is around the parcels, meaning and and the pad is indicated.

E

Yeah, we can't predict exactly what the house is going to look like, but by putting a sidewalk in there, it does promote the idea of people putting front doors facing sure the frontages of their block. So uh there's three houses that nominally face um Grove Street will have a sidewalk connecting. Presumably the the owners will provide front access to those lots. Let's.

A

Have everything come off the rear, less a sidewalk, more a Charming path, sidewalk.

D

A

It makes it sound like a you know, it's part of a Boulevard, but anyway a private time. Yes,.

M

I just wanted to about the sidewalk that walk that, maybe that could be extended all the way across on top of the wall or you know.

G

Above the wall, but again these are- these are all site plan things that we will have the opportunity to get to and talk more.

A

M

The thing I'm concerned about is in terms of uh the secret is that one provision, let me call it up here- um will the proposed action, impair the character or quality of the existing community and the feedback that we're getting from the community is saying? Yes, it will.

A

Yes, it has to rise to a standard of a significant impact, though, and we can we can talk about what that means. Obviously, when you know you're living in an area that is being impacted by any kind of development to to you, that feels like a significant impact, but we have somewhat of a different standard right.

B

Right- and this is you're- valuing this for secret purposes, so is it a signif? Is it going to result in a significant environmental impact and it's not a denial of the pro so you're evaluating for secret purposes? You're, not denying the project at this or approving the project at this phase, you're making a decision on. Do you want the the applicant to evaluate that factor further and then do a environmental impact statement, which would mean that it goes to a scoping period where you'd evaluate okay? What are the potential significant environmental impacts?

B

Then they prepare a draft environmental impact statement. You know it's process and your decision tonight would mean: do they go through that process? A negative declaration just means that it's not going to have any. um It's not going to result in any significant environmental impacts, and it doesn't. The applicant does not have to go forward with an environmental impact statement, but.

Q

B

Are not saying that the project is perfect, the way it is and you're not done with your review process. You are only done with this one aspect on the environmental issues.

A

Right, so that, thank you for that distinction, I'm.

J

Sorry, Mr chairman, just at one point of clarification too, from a community character, standpoint, oftentimes you're, looking at whether or not it's a profound departure or significant modification, if we're proposing a three-story multi-family residence in a traditionally or fully you know there was a previous discussion earlier about spot zoning, so putting multi-family tenancies in a single-family residential district. The applicants proposing five single-family residences with generally consistent lot sizes for the area not proposing commercial use, not proposing any other uses.

J

So it's it's in line with what the comprehensive plan is designed and the zoning is for this site, which is single family residences. Thank.

A

You yeah, the key there is does: does it rise to the level of the need for based on the significance uh for our ask of the applicant for a further um environmental review um and the way that we've characterized and I'm reading here directly from the draft, um the point, consistency with Community plans and Community character?

A

The proposed action is not inconsistent with adopted Community plans and Community character uh and further to that, the proposed action is generally consistent with the comprehensive plan and City Zoning code and will not have significant impact on Municipal services and is consistent with the character of the existing neighborhood from you know, from basically our understanding of how these lots are being proposed, their size, their orientation, their access.

A

It goes on to say the proposed Lots comply with the minimum lot sizes for the respective zoning districts in which the lots are located um again does not rise to the level of significance such that we would need to call for further detailed study and then further fire truck access diagrams were reviewed by the planning board. We just saw updated ones tonight to confirm fire and emergency access to each of the proposed Lots.

A

The proposed development is consistent with the prevailing development patterns for the area surrounding the property, so that that's how we're characterizing for secret with this draft negative declaration- and there are other, very detailed- we can review some of those as well provisions of this draftnag deck that relate directly to a lot of these issues and whether or not again, we've heard a lot from the community.

A

Yes, however, they have to rise to a certain level of significance before they trigger um further in-depth review by the applicant, in this case, we're we're stating through our draft of the negec, and certainly let's talk about it- that this is consistent with Community plants and Community character.

A

All right I mean we can. We can even you know, go up to another item that has been raised a number of times by the public of you know, obviously, um certain import and concern, and that has to do with impact on Transportation.

A

um The proposed action will not and we're stating through this draft nag deck will not have a significant adverse environmental impact on Transportation thusly. The construction of four new single-family homes will not result in a significant adverse traffic impact based on the Institute of Transportation engineers.

A

The project would generate five vehicle trips in the AM peak hour and five to six trips in the PMP Tower generally, a project generating fewer than 100 trips in a peak hour is not considered to be a significant increase in traffic. Furthermore, a city of Beacon ladder truck again addressing emergency access.

A

A city of Beacon ladder, truck tracking template exhibits submitted by the applicant demonstrates that the ladder truck can enter and exit the shared driveway. While vehicles are parked on the east side of Highland Place.

H

Can I just ask a question on that.

D

H

Point does that require putting up no parking signs on the west side of the street.

A

uh I think if if the city is going to- and let's talk about this um because I think obviously parking on both sides of the streets is constricting right, yeah.

C

It would be constricting for emergency vehicles and the public has raised that concern before about Vehicles being parked on both sides and their concerns with emergency vehicles getting up the road and that's prior to the project you know being constructed.

C

So it may be something you wish to consider having the Traffic Safety Committee, also review since you're, already asking them to look at other specs. Yes,.

A

So we've always: we've already made the recommendation and acted on that. um Do we need to sort of codify the fact that we would like them also to look at um parking and no parking on one one or other side? One.

M

Or the other side of the street, it's more specific, the better yeah.

B

I would recommend just adding that to your request, yeah.

A

So some motion to amend our recommendation to the traffic and Safety Committee to not only study um sorry, what was the first.

B

Moment you're going.

A

To ask you to study the.

H

First, comic.

A

Yes, traffic calming. Thank you. uh In addition to that, um we will request that the traffic and Safety Committee study uh parking and the potential for no parking on one side of the street.

D

L

Yes, if we can add something to that and that they uh yeah.

A

Let's keep the motion open if there's anything else, we want to pull.

L

Into this all right, so it's I I think it might be worthwhile for them to examine whether um uh what the differential impacts are of a five uh Home, Development or four home development. You see what I'm saying.

A

Compare the impacts of those two: are you asking the traffic and Safety Committee to study that? Yes, that's not their job I.

G

L

It's just it just it just studies, the impact of.

A

L

E

Yeah it consider it's traffic and safety changes to the public right-of-way, not the impacts of development.

B

You you would ask that request of the applicant if.

J

You wanted to show.

B

J

Meaningful difference, but we can certainly provide that.

B

And the the Seeker you know that doesn't necessarily have to impact this- the secret determination at this time, because you're making a secret determination based on the maximum five houses. You know this is what traffic would be at its Max, so you can still ask for additional information about okay. Well, what would it be at it for and you don't have to keep secret open if you, if you'd like to move forward tonight again after this decision, there's going to be another public hearing? And you continue your review process focused on the subdivision, specifically.

H

Could I ask a question about that? Yes, in particular, um could you just discuss a little bit the scaffolding of one decision and then how that impacts like if we, if there's a negative declaration declared on the secret review, um are there that's that allows still for the possibility of a hypothetical denial of a subdivision approval based on other concerns right.

B

Exactly and and you'd Focus that denial specifically on Provisions in the city code pertaining to the subdivision factors and what has to go in into um you know: subdividing the property, and you know you deny it on design factors and and things separate and apart from seeker, and that is a possibility.

J

And if there were significant changes by May, if there were significant changes to the application, for example that changed the design or other features, the board can also revisit Seeker. If that were appropriate, I mean other projects might be of larger scale where that would be more relevant. The Edgewater project, for example, was approved from a secret perspective for over 300 units when it was reduced to 200 and some odd units.

J

It had to come back before the board withstand a reason that it was a reduced impact, but that had to be reevaluated, because that's a substantial change from what was originally considered and.

B

That's a way different scale than what we're dealing with here, but it is about. It is a possibility and we can, you know, walk through any potential changes to the plans and whether or not re-evaluation of secret would be appropriate, but again just because you make a secret determination at you know this stage or tonight it does not preclude from reopening or and from changing the plans in the future.

G

T

I may yeah um I think it would probably be accurate to perhaps look at this from the perspective of if the legislature had not adopted the state hydraulic, Environmental, Quality review act again in the first place, passed against to make an assessment of whether this proposed action is likely to have a significant negative environment.

T

I think all of the considerations we've heard tonight would still be in front of us.

J

Dave again sorry, he just can't hear you in the microphone.

G

I can hear you really well well.

T

But just but just that that we secret is a specific question: it's not approval of the project.

O

That's right, yes,.

G

A

Okay, anyone else from the public regarding traffic ah thank.

N

You, but you could ask.

N

To understand the impact, the criteria sort of out the number of trips that are an impact, the impact to the community, they could collect traffic volumes on Grove Street and see how the increase in traffic would compare to that street in particular. Since it's it needs to look at the local aspect.

N

So it's not a full traffic study.

J

I mean, through all due respect, I mean to the trafficking sold. I, don't know what that the numbers are you as a consultant reviewing it, you would see the numbers are below 100 trips, I.

N

Agree, I, I, agree, but I think the board is trying to get some clarity on. What is the impact I mean we.

J

Could clarify that just the numbers that would be generated by each home? So if we reduce it by one home, the number of vehicles would, generally speaking, correlate to that one development. So, instead of five trips you're at four or instead of six you're at five I mean it's, it's a pretty straightforward that that exercise is not going to provide any meaningful determination as to whether there's a significant.

L

A

L

And whether it's small or large, that's not for us right now.

N

Seeker has set forth a quantitative number for the impact I mean you can act on that, but if I'm just trying to find a way to show the community that the number of trips being generated by this site are not in or or are or are not impactful to the trips currently on the roadway.

N

A

You're, saying, okay right so on its face, this particular application and the number of trips and the thresh you know in relationship to the threshold 100 trips or anything below in that does not rise to the level of significant adverse impact. I think that's all clear, so I think what I'm hearing then also is, is it is there? Is there some understanding of these five homes and their traffic, or at least the four new additional traffic trips in context of other developments within the city, or at least relative to this area in aggregate?

A

Is that is that kind of what I'm hearing you know? Is that something that we should be concerned about, or um would that rise to the level of I? Just intuitively? No but I'm just curious, both Kevin and um Stark yeah. Help help me understand how a deeper study, especially with one house removed, might help an understanding in relationship to the threshold of significant efforts, impact.

L

I just wanted to get a sense if there was a study being done of not just the proposal that's being put forward but ultimates that might reduce its impact. That's that was the intent of having a a a analysis of what the, uh as you said, one house would be one-fifth of whatever the impact is. Maybe that's.

J

Understood by May, a house I think one member of the public mentioned in their comment letter to the board that I have five cars that park at my house. One house might have one car, it's all factored in. There's no set number.

J

You don't know exactly how many people you don't know how few or as many I mean these are all the intangibles that could open Pandora's Box in any application period, but the the what's being proposed is not presenting a significant adverse environmental impact to the community character, to the character of the neighborhood to the overall network of operations for traffic circulation in the city of Beacon. It's it's not affecting uh I'm.

N

Is that this will not have a significant act, but if the board wanted to have quantitative data about a number of trips are going to be compared to the trips that are on the roadways. Now you could ask that yeah.

A

I understand special.

N

Opinions that this will not happen.

N

That would just be the.

A

Tool, so the idea would be to put it in context right of what's Happening currently and to understand that incremental increase. Sorry did you have something John.

E

It just to recognize it is an incremental interest, because what we're talking about here is you know if this was our 110.

G

E

Know a lot of people would have said that that would be a fair thing. Instead of splitting the parcel make it all war 110, maybe four houses on the on the parcel and the subdivision, and that would be legal you'd have one less driveway and one less one less house. Is that a significant impact over the desirable thing that people have talked about right.

E

You can't ask um an applicant to do a environmental impact statement, which is the alternative that would be considered um over one or at most, two houses understood.

M

um May I make a comment.

A

It may be heard.

M

So I I understand that and um and I agree that the technically the the the application probably qualifies for a neg deck um I I just keep coming back to that one um that one line in uh about the character.

A

Very bottom, the.

M

Last book that it will not have a significant impact or that it is consistent with the character of the existing neighborhood and what I'd like to say about that is that character is um ineffable.

D

M

And we're hearing from all the people who live around there that create they're the ones that create the character of the neighborhood and they're, saying yeah. It is going to change it so I understand fine negdeck um going forward.

M

I would hope that we there's something that we can do to um enhance the existing character of the neighborhood, with this application and request of the applicant that that be amenable to at least listening to that um and there's a lot that can be done with the design I believe. So, if.

J

I might address some of that. We did incorporate a lot of mitigation measures into the program. It's not just houses, build them, see you later. It's incorporating landscaping design uh along the frontages we've Incorporated, a tree-lined uh driveways, which is a recommendation of your planner. We incorporated those sidewalk or the the private walkways, as the chair mentioned before that's common from the public, this has been a revised application to reduce impervious services that are there. So all these factors are not taken in a vacuum.

J

So when the public makes comments with respect to an application, the intent is hopefully to get other information that the board might not have been aware of in its deliberations or to add to the board's deliberations. The board has certainly highlighted those and so of your consultants in their memoranda, which the applicant has then put into their program the Landscaping all the screening, Mr Russo also mentioned additional buffering for the existing residents which we're agreeable to so. Those are ways that we're addressing potential the potential for Community character impact.

J

Those are mitigation measures so where there are mitigation measures Incorporated the idea there is to reduce any potentially significant adverse. That's the two keywords: significant adverse environmental impacts with respect to what we're proposing is zoning compliant single-family residences in a single-family residential zoning District totally consistent with the area. We've looked at other lots of similarly situated sizes. They have adequate Frontage Farm, let's say it again: firematic access and additional screening. So, with respect to community character, we've tried to mitigate that or manage that through those other implementations.

M

And I think what you're hearing from the from the neighborhood is that it's uh not enough.

J

Understood and we're trying to be responsive through it, but to say that to five or four is: is the driving Factor? Those aren't the changes or the impacts that are reflected in the community are not those that would rise to that level of significant adverse impact. There may be an impact. It's not saying that a project well through all of our studies and reports, we've managed the storm water. We've managed access to the site, we've created, frontages, we're zoning compliant so we're conforming with all of the code requirements. So I appreciate the comments.

J

I just wanted to highlight that we did have mitigated potential impacts associated with what you've highlighted as Reynolds.

A

Great, um we still have an open motion on the table about our recommendation to the traffic and Safety Committee, so we had asked that um they look at uh ensuite parking and traffic calming measures anything else we want to add to that before. We.

E

I would I would look at stop size. There's no stop sign on Highland.

E

They could slow down traffic on Grove by putting a stop sign at the top of the hill great, not coming up the hill, but before you get to the hill, that would be a way of calming traffic the roads in that area already narrow it's going to be hard to narrow them as a strategy for traffic calming you can Tree Line them, which visually slows people down, there's hardly any Street trees in that on Grove Street, particularly um that would be another way, but that's sort of a design thing.

E

The traffic and safety would look at stop signism and no parking yep, because the two items that I would draw attention to. So as.

A

Opposed to okay, so as opposed to the broader term traffic calming specifically.

E

Well, they could, they could think about it in terms of traffic, copies.

G

E

A difficult you know: there's no reason for people to drive fast on those traits, but they do.

A

People drive fast on all the streets and bacon.

A

E

You play around like they're built, like super highways.

A

E

Though people drive like.

A

They are, um are you clear on the charge in terms of the motion we have open so great, so.

E

um And I think that in the context it would be, they would look at these items, regardless of whether the subdivision went in because there are already issues speeding, no stop signs parking on both sides of the street. That's only 20 22 feet wide. That's not acceptable! Yeah!

E

um Generally speaking, you need at least say 27 feet to have a parking on both sides and even that's a a yield Street where you don't have through traffic coming through. So.

A

Let's say the the charge we're asking of the traffic and Safety Committee is to look at traffic calming and specifically stop signs, as well as on-street parking.

E

On the and I would say specifically on the west side of a Highland Place.

A

On the west side of Highland Place, so I think we had. The motion by Karen do I have a second second, second, by Jill all.

H

In favor all right.

A

And then um I want to give the public any additional opportunity. Please Mr pavlok.

U

Dennis pavalock Justin, Street I just have a general question. If we have this board has setback standards and they can be adjusted and compromised. Why have setback standards at all? That was my comment. Thank you for your time.

G

A

I can answer that question. They were. They were adjusted as a part of the city's reassessment of certain zoning Parcels in.

J

Fact the board actually has more latitude with subdivisions to be flexible, with unduly restrictive uh conditions on a subdivision, we're not seeking any type of relief. But.

A

Correct and yes, there are, there are certain instances as John described again. This is in response and for the record and only ran off um where we do have some leeway around setbacks and compliance with them. But for the most part, that's one of the first things we look at you're in compliance with your setbacks, we're good, um okay, anyone else from the public.

A

A

Q

Sorry, thank you very much for allowing it. My biggest issue from the beginning has been parking on Highland and parking in front of my house and one of the reasons that the public hearing wasn't closed.

Q

The last time we had this public hearing was because of the concern with the potential for no parking in order for the fire truck access. So now it's just accepted. Oh okay, we'll just have no parking on the west side of Main Street, so you're, doubling the amount of houses and completely removing parking from an entire side of the street. How is that not a significant impact? That's cutting our parking by like a quarter now, that's that will completely destroy the quality of life in our neighborhood.

Q

If, if you do that, so that's that's all I wanted to say. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity. True.

A

Is that something you wanted to address? I.

J

Think I'm only able to address the your Consultants have already addressed that it's an existing condition. That's a problem, not the proposed action. So it's just something that may have already been something that should have been adjusted previously, but the committee is going to look at whether or not that's something that should take place so I think it's an existing condition, it's not being created by the application. Yeah.

M

Then well, the need for the parking is being created by the application. No.

J

D

A

J

On our yeah go ahead: Mr chairman.

A

Sorry I was going to say look as far as the access to the site. It's it's generally similar to what's existing, currently correct right, we're adding, for the most part, Another We're, widening a curb cut, we're adding another one to the north, the the ability for fire equipment to service the house now on that lot is still the same type of situation. Should there be parking on both sides of that street, it's still restricted correct. So that's the point that the applicant is making.

A

uh So it's an exist. It's an existing issue already.

A

um Great anyone else from the public.

A

um So to that end, we can entertain a motion to close the Sikh Republic hearing, with the understanding that we will also discuss at some point opening the um site plan. Public hearing subdivision. Excuse me subdivision. Thank you. um I kind of have a motion to close the secret public hearing.

H

A

Motion by Karen second, by Jill, all in favor aye.

D

A

And then, as mentioned, we do have the draft neg deck uh and we can review any other Provisions if the board has questions or want further uh elucidation on any of the components of this. But we read specifically from a few relative to um the negative declarations position regarding significant adverse impacts. Any questions or a motion to adopt.

M

I'm, sorry: what are we, what.

A

Is this um we have the draft negative declaration that we are able to act on tonight if we so choose so I'm asking for a motion.

M

A

That was to close the secret public hearing.

M

Isn't it the same thing? No.

G

A

I'm using this.

M

By closing the.

A

Hearing it doesn't automatically mean we've adopted the negative declaration. We have to do that in a separate motion. Okay motion, so.

M

H

A

Second, second, by Karen, all in favor.

D

A

Are you I? No, why.

L

Because I think there's a significant impact: okay,.

A

Please clarify.

L

I think the discussion has been gone on.

A

I need specifics, Kevin. Why do you? Why do you feel specifically that there are significant adverse impacts? That's the question.

L

I think there's a significant impact to the community character. Okay,.

G

A

So you're going to vote now. Are you abstaining.

L

I'm voting, though,.

A

Okay, um so recorded.

J

There's four eyes: one nay.

A

Correct right, thank you. uh Therefore, uh it passes. um Okay, anything else, just of the board sees fit.

J

A

Re-Re notice, we.

J

Have to re-notice in the paper that the at the the signage and then the uh mailings.

A

Yes, so motion to schedule, subdivision public hearing for next month's meeting I'll accept a motion motion.

V

A

By Karen, second, by Jill, all in favor aye. Thank you very much. Thank you, I'm, going to call for a quick one minute break and then we'll get back to the regular agenda. Thank you.

A

uh No, uh so great bye next item on the agenda is continued review of an application for Content plan approval, we're in concept plan approval uh for the beacon, hiplops and Studios Front Street submitted by Beacon hiplops LLC referred to the planning board by city council.

B

Sure so the applicants propose a total of 30 000 square feet of first floor Artisan Studios and 28 loft apartments. On the second floor, the proposed project is on a 3.5 acre undeveloped, parcel in the Fishkill Creek development district and within the historic district district and landmark overlay Zone. An existing Greenway Trail is also on the parcel. This action is an unlisted secret action and a project in the Fishkill Creek District requires city council approval of the concept plan.

B

The city council has referred the plans to the planning board for a secret review and Reporting recommendation uh on the concepts on the concept plan, specifically after concept plan approval by the council, more specific architectural Landscaping lighting and Engineering details should be covered by the planning board during the subsequent site plan and Architectural Review board approval process. The planning board is currently gathering information to take make a determination under Seeker, then you'll prepare that report and recommendation goes back to the planning board. I'm. Sorry.

B

It goes back to the city council and then back to the planning board.

D

B

This is the very beginning of a quite a long process.

A

Property in this District a bit of a bouncing ball. You you first went to the council shared your thoughts with them. They said, hey go talk to the planning board. You were here with us two months ago and now you're back we're continuing the review of your concept plan and again, as Drew mentioned, we have to review for secret uh before then. We refer it back to the city council right at which point you'll go back to the city council and then come back to us right.

V

For for the actual um technical side plan review right um so yeah so.

G

V

Rea Siegel representing the owner I'm here with Mike bodendorf the site civil engineer for the project, um so we submitted revised drawings and other documentation. In response to the comments we received at the last meeting um that there was a architectural report, uh traffic report, uh archaeological report and- um and we also submitted additional information on the landscape design.

V

So so, basically, the archaeological report didn't pick up anything significant um with the traffic report. We're trying to see if we could reduce the number of constructed parking spaces by um you know by land banking, a number of them and to to do that. We're gonna the Traffic Engineers, who did some research on you know, what's happening on the develop site adjacent to this site, to see if there's a possibility of shared parking um and what what he plans to do is do some observation of actual conditions as opposed to there was an idea.

V

Maybe we would speak to the residents. But after talking about anything, so just observation of sort of a day-to-day parking you know, operation may be a better way to go. So you have.

C

C

But do we know that all the units and facilities and the neighboring property are occupied, it's fully occupied or do we have vacant units they're.

F

They're, you know if they come.

C

Occupied now you're going to have additional cars coming in that weren't accounted for.

V

Yeah I mean, as far as I know, that it's pretty much 100 occupied, except for that the new building that's going up right now,.

L

Can I have a question how many units are going in that new building in.

V

The the new building yeah Construction, uh it's 89.,.

D

G

V

A

Construction, that's right. Yeah.

G

V

On the developed property, yeah yep.

L

We are proposed here.

V

L

Okay, yeah thanks. Sorry I should read.

V

And so so right now we have all the park parking. We need for the you know the residential and the commercial, but you know, ideally, if there's some way to do it with you know, I think everyone would like to reduce that or at least what's constructed, yeah.

A

Okay, well, that's good to hear um so if there's a, if there's an Avenue for that, then you know we're certainly open to talking about it. I know um so, just just before. So since we last uh talk with you, you showed us a very early concept plan uh in terms of between then and now anything significant. As far as the development of this plan and the concept that you want to.

V

We didn't make changes to the footprint of the building or the general idea of the building, but um we've filled in some information that um you know. John and John. Hadn't asked for.

F

V

There's also the development of the you know: the landscape plan that there's a lot more engineering now, which Mike can talk about um and and also just so you're aware, the the property owner of this property, um repaved Mill Street up to the railroad tracks. So so that has been improved already. um I know that was a concern.

G

When did that happen,.

V

Maybe a month and a half ago.

G

So it was before the new year yeah.

A

I was just over there. After the new year, I didn't notice. It was.

V

Awful before that, but it yeah it. It's uh vastly improved.

A

um Okay, uh then we do have the benefit of obviously our planner engineers and traffic Consultants reviews.

A

um So, let's, um let's just do the round robin typical order. Mr Clark.

E

Okay, just a reminder, there's a concept plan, and so they don't have to do architecture final Landscaping. Any of that sort of thing that's when they come back to the planning board after concept plan approval, you don't want to give the council um too much work. You know it's designed to be a concept, not a uh they're not supposed to be.

F

Dealing with engineering.

D

Or architecture.

E

And Landscaping and details um they did do a development analysis. I asked them do that, because there are certain deductions in this parcel that they have to take for flood ways and standing water and things like that. They did that what I saw it's approved at 28 units, um so they are allowed to do the number that they are showing um they. The one of my major complaints was the the sidewalk issue which is talked about in the concept plan.

E

um The Pedestrian circulation system should be in as part of the concept plan, and you know right now when I see the sidewalk just encircles the building, with no setback between the building and the sidewalk, which is generally better practice for drainage purposes, and- and you know that sort of thing there's no connection between the sidewalk and the greenway Trail, even though they're only five feet apart, there's no sidewall connection up to Mill Street, which I think is a something that should be looked at and considered since this is part of their property, goes up to Mill Street.

E

uh That was an old Front Street um intersection, um so that pedestrian circulation system is important that they have to take care of, and then the other major comment was over the traffic impact study and particularly the parking count I. They provide 95 spaces, which is required by code, but there are Provisions in the code that you can reduce that number for shared parking based on hours. They did in hours and up um analysis, but it was based on ite categories that don't really match up that.

E

Well, so I suggested that they also consider looking at the adjacent site where they do have. Artists, live work, type units and interview and find out how many of those people might want to have Studio space here so that you could deduct those sorts of numbers. If the 20 of the people say that they might be interested in new studio space, they wouldn't have to have a separate parking space right next door. So.

G

Someone of us- and they would have an indication.

E

Of how many people who might live on the second floor might be interested in having a studio space on the first floor, and you don't need redundant parking for that. So I would like to see the parking Cat come down. They propose 15 spaces um that still seems higher than 95 to 15 is still 80 spacious for this building.

G

You're saying you're looking for if I'm reading gear and hearing.

A

You correctly you're looking for a greater space reduction. Yes,.

E

A

uh And obviously or.

E

At least ammunition to determine whether that's viable.

G

E

Got it and then the planning board can land back spaces if you're, not confident in those numbers or if those numbers seem speculative. You can always land bank the parking and look at it in six months and determine whether those extra 20 25 spaces are necessary. Whatever.

I

E

So I would be less conservative on the deduction that they would get for having shared parking of mixed use. That may have some overlap in terms of hours and also a tenant use of the property down below yeah.

A

Understood um so I'm curious when it comes to land, banking and that potential number, um how do we eventually get to that? If that's something we're.

E

Going to yeah well, they did it like I, said in ite, um which are in many ways flawed I.T parking numbers because they're based on Suburban examples primarily and they're, sometimes based on very limited number of samples to project all over the country, um so I think an analysis based on the existing conditions.

E

Next door would be helpful, yeah and a certain number of tenant interviews to find out what sort of percentage they could project of people who live in the building or live next door in the building might be interested in renting those Studio spaces on the ground floor so that you could deduct those parking spaces.

G

Would it would it would there be any wisdom in as far as land, banking.

A

Defaulting to a number of total required, meaning you know between paved and land banked. The ultimate end result is the potential the yeah.

E

That they could fully build out the.

A

95, if necessary, Central for a full build out yeah.

E

A

That's one: that's one way.

E

To look, that's the you know, I think you could expanding how the numbers work out in the long-term analysis. You could say Okay instead of 95, we think because of shared parking.

D

E

Going to have definitely have some shared parking overlap or non-overlap of hours between the commercial use and the residential use uh that you could deduct it down to say, I, think I'm, 80 and then consider a factor beyond that for shared use of tenants, yeah of the rental space and land bank, that, for instance, but it depends on how you come out with what numbers do you feel comfortable with in the more and feel comfortable with in terms of making sure in the long run, you have enough parking, but you don't over Park to begin with.

E

G

So you're clearing how to.

A

V

Issue that that clarified sort of analysis, okay, what you're asking for so.

G

Great yeah anything else.

E

A

It yeah great Mr Russo.

C

So if the board remembers this property, a third of it is located within the floodway and the remainder of it or 99 of it or so is located within the flood plain um that's a hundred year, that's a hundred year and then there's a little Zone beyond that exome, but it's within the Hundred Year.

C

um So, basically, as the project progresses, the applicant will need to seek a flood development permit from the city. They'll probably do that time of building permit. They have to set their floor. Elevations based upon flood elevations that have been established by FEMA city code requires that those floor elevations be two foot above flood elevations. They have done that with the concern of inundation of the site with water.

C

I've asked the applicant to look into that. Their engineer did and they did find documentation from FEMA. That specifically says that that Fringe area, which is the area between the flood way and then hundred year, floodline, is called The. Fringe can be completely.

C

How did they say it? The floodway Fringe encompasses a portion of floodway that can be completely obstructed without increasing the water surface. Elevation of the one percent annual chance flood, which is 100 year by more than one foot at any point that does comply with the city's code, so I can't ask them to review that further. If the city code was more stringent and said, you can't increase um the Water by zero one inch, two inches. We could make them study that yep.

K

C

K

If I may for a visual for what John's explaining right now, we put that up on the screen so.

K

What you have is this line would represent the floodway line over the course of a of a stream channel. So you have each side that encompasses also a flood plain line, so these outer lines represent where the flood plain line would end up what's in between the flood way, and the flood plain is The floodway Fringe.

K

So what FEMA says is you can fill this as much as you want so long as you don't feel inside the floodway lines, and you won't result in increasing the the flood plain elevation by more than one feet and I'll just add to that discussion that we're only filling one side of the stream. So there still is that floodway, Fringe or floodplain Fringe, or it is The floodway Fringe on the opposite side of the stream. That's not being touched by this project when.

A

You say, fill and I'm assuming Phil means those hatched areas and that's fill through grading, correct yeah.

L

Yeah is there, is there a floodway on it's rather yeah.

K

There's a Flyway on both sides of the Stream and I think the flood plain line is much closer to the floodway on the opposite side, because those banks are much steeper and higher.

K

This, this side is lower than the than the east side.

G

So so, when everything I'm hearing is that.

A

What you're proposing is in compliance with the city's code and wouldn't significantly impact what you're sharing with us. As far as your concept plan.

K

Correct and it's in compliance with the FEMA, this is a FEMA standard that we're looking at.

C

Right here correct, so basically we had a look at that as part of Seeker as we're going through this and.

A

C

A

No significant adverse environmental.

H

A

At this point, okay, so.

H

The the building itself is in The Fringe. The building itself is in.

C

The fridge yes.

H

And isn't that considered filling more than one foot like.

C

The volume of the water level itself can't raise more than one foot so.

H

C

That you're obstructing one right, you can obstruct The Fringe outside the floodway, but doing so will not raise the water level by more than a foot in the floodway.

C

That's what the.

E

Team Estates in their studies in the age of climate change. If I was developing this building I know it's not my money. I would do more than two feet above the but two feet meets the code.

C

I, don't disagree with you. John I would always do more, but two feet meets.

E

The coast 100 year, flood plain these days is, is.

C

Flooded every I know you know.

G

L

Another month, even on the Fishkill Creek experience.

L

Sandy was not that bad up here, but it was another flood. Just.

K

L

K

Reference to Eileen and Irene and Lee that area, the the flood or the water barely came in to that part of the parcel.

K

During Irene or Lee.

L

The previous owner was uh complaining about the adjacent development in its storm water management that would jumping on it. There's this the adjacent site I'm just this is just something I.

G

Experience were.

A

Either of those storms classified to the level of 100 year,.

K

C

Separately, combined, yes, yeah.

K

Depending on where you were, the intensity of the storm was much greater in terms of how long it lasted and how much rain fell. So in a way you could almost say that's more than 100 Year storm, because 100 Year storm is a 24-hour storm where I believe it was Lee that dropped more rain than Irene, and that's where the serious flooding happened. For the most part, I mean Irene did its damage as well, but I went to all the sites on the Fishkill Creek periodically.

K

During that whole time and I didn't see, any breaches I actually saw worse flooding during Hurricane Ida. That's.

G

Kind of cool, not in the.

K

Creek, but in like storm systems and things like that,.

G

During during big storms, you geek out and you go run.

K

Around that's kind of cool I want to know what's happening, I want to make sure what I'm designing.

C

Is actually happening right.

A

Interesting, they learned something new. Okay, thanks.

H

C

Yeah, some of the things that they're still Gathering data on as we had asked for reports on the existing sanitary sore Pump Station that Services these sites, so they're Gathering data on that they still need to provide a report on that.

C

um We've asked them to consult with the building department, the fire department. As far as emergency access concerns, we want to make sure, what's being laid out. Even conceptual wise is going to work as far as access um I'm asking for more information to be shown on the plans with regards to Front Street as it extends to the South beyond the existing building. The plans just seem to go. Blank um and I do have concerns all right. I fell asleep at it. This came up.

C

I do have concerns with regards to the residential building. That's there and the cars that all Park perpendicular to Front Street and narrowing Front Street itself in that area and they're, noting that that southern entrance will be an emergency access, a secondary access if the main one is blocked off. My concern is if the main one is blocked off you're, basically going to be using that southern act, Southern access and you're going to need two-way traffic to get through there.

C

Then, with regards to the storm water, um that's still got to be reviewed. The Swip uh joint inspection will have to be done for the infiltration systems that they're proposing. So as that progresses, I'll provide more information on that and then there's a number of other comments. I've asked their engineer to take a look at as far as grading utilities. Great.

A

um Okay, so as far as secret and they're building there so.

C

Basically, we need more information on the soar. Emergency access.

C

um The storm order to make sure what they're proposing will comply.

A

So you've got work to do and then we'll get to the good part and.

G

N

V

We uh we looked.

N

At the um site plan and the traffic study, as far as our site plan comments go, um and we recognized that there was two parking spaces adjacent to the green whale trip. Greenway Trail Crossing, if those could be relocated to increase visibility and that possibly the crosswalk be a raised crosswalk. If that could be considered.

G

So at which location it.

N

Was a Greenway crosses over the uh through the parking lot? It's right now it's a yeah! They are. They are kind of delineating it with that uh change in material, uh but if it could be a raised, crosswalk that'd be perfect, just to kind of bring pedestrians up and then also the two parking spaces.

N

If you are going to land bank spaces or if you're going to produce a number of parking spaces, if you could start there to again increase visibility for pedestrians, um uh you know we would recommend that uh uh turning typically provided for trash enclosure being accessed sidewalks were brought up, decide what connectivity um at least connecting to the sidewalks that are on Mill Street right now.

N

Would we had some questions about how parking would operate? Would you have that the parking be delineated or signed for residents, or would it just uh be unsigned, would you provide any electric vehicle parking spaces.

N

That was the extent of our track or our site plan comments. As for the traffic impact and parking study, we did note that the study um uses the correct land use codes. In fact, the plainish code they used for the commercial uh use is pretty conservative, given that it's going to be an artist's studio and not a retail space, so that does provide a conservative analysis. They take into account other developments in the area.

N

The number of parking spaces does meet the code requirements. They do look at the potential of the Self Storage. That's going to be proposed on the other site, I think just notably the intersection of Mill, Street and 52. Right now is unsignalized. Well, it's signalized, but it's it's not signalized. There's.

G

N

Two-Way: stop control with flashing, yellow and red is.

E

N

So the traffic study shows that, as it stays in the unsignalized conditions, there will be some level of service constraints on the Mill Street approach. Nobody.

G

A

Attention to that.

C

I'm taking it you're, one of them.

G

No, what I mean is again. This is this: is the egress out on to 52.

H

Yeah there's a blinking light there I.

A

Never know what my point is, though, that I feel like I. Wait there forever to get out of hip loss.

C

Oh, you still will meaning.

G

The the traffic on 52 doesn't give. It doesn't seem to notice at all.

A

That there's some sort of traffic you.

C

Know they're beating.

N

Signal up there, they're beating, yellow.

G

Yeah, that's what I mean and they just keep going. They don't give a crap somebody's coming out. It'll.

V

Turn green eventually at times I.

G

A

Wait long enough so I'm just curious about how the signaling and whether you know the trip generation might rise to the level of an improvement to signaling a signaling there. So.

N

That intersection is proposed to be signalized as part of uh improvements that are being done: I Believe by the city, oh.

G

N

G

Okay and you're performing your analysis with that.

A

Assumption they.

N

Are they conducted an analysis with that assumption? uh We did note that they don't have the signal timings haven't been distributed for that signal. Yet so they assume a reasonable I.

G

N

Single time and plan for it, but certainly the signal helps with the operations of the intersection.

G

C

We recommend that they reach out to the design Engineers for that project, see if they've been ascertaining.

N

So yeah, we can't ask that, in my experience with the dot, they won't distribute it until like they've installed it. But we can certainly ask that Colliers reach out to the D.O.T for the timing plans.

G

A

It less to bring.

G

It out of the more theoretical into more specific, yes, yeah.

A

I mean just in terms of the the impact I know this isn't as as large as the building currently being built, but it's it's again adding more right.

C

All the homes that are in there that you.

G

C

The buildings and all those buildings that is their primary access in and out of, that entire area, yep.

G

Great, thank you. Mr hip.

N

Yeah not affiliated with the.

A

Project I was going to say it's a coincidence.

V

All right, I I, just wanted to clarify one thing. When you say a raised crosswalk you mean, like the mountable, curb kind of a idea.

N

uh Like a speed table so.

V

Right, okay, so.

N

It could be, you know, four inch vertical element over six.

V

To eighteen, oh.

K

D

C

The same thing Rea, if, when you're raising that in that area, if, if those areas are going to be land bank to either side, you may just want to make a look or extend an island out to Encompass those three like a grass Island to uh kind of give a visual that the width is being reduced and possibly slow. People down.

A

As far as the greenway Trail.

G

Has the committee, as a green Metro committee, weighed in at all, are they is this on their radar, yeah.

V

We at the beginning of the project we we met with Tom and walked the site with him so um and.

F

V

Basically, where we came up with that different material for the crosswalk and we reviewed the Improvement of the greenway trail near.

G

The building, okay, with.

V

The additional Landscaping so he's aware of it, and you know we tried to accommodate the comments that he gave us.

C

Great, have they seen the latest plans that you've.

V

um Not not, no, we didn't send it to him directly because I I think he also understands that that that's going to come up more in the site plan review. Sure.

G

G

Thank you, esteemed Consultants. Any questions for the applicant around the board.

L

G

L

Curious about one thing: whether or not there were any other agencies having jurisdiction that are going to need approval for the development in the floodway. Let's say like the Corps of Engineers or the state, so we're the only Authority that has we.

K

Don't we don't think we need any other permits, we're not proposing any outfalls into the bank, better banks of the stream um I, don't think we need any certifications from FEMA so long as we meet their requirements.

C

I believe you will need to provide certifications for the city as part of the flood plain development permit, um and the other agencies that would be involved would be Department of Health. With regards to the water and soar right.

G

Foreign questions open discussion.

H

Not at the moment.

M

I I agree with um John's assessment of the parking it's too much parking.

A

Yeah I think you know any opportunity to land bank yeah and you know I.

M

A

M

G

A floodplain yeah.

A

G

You know which car is.

A

Floating away, and then you know this idea of connectivity, pedestrian connectivity and it being logical and intuitive and convenient I think is really important. It's a it's a large complex back there and it's it's really shaping up to being a you know, sort of a nice environment, so the ability to navigate on foot I'm sure is benefit to the residents and visitors. So some thought there's going to be well appreciated.

V

And, and just to clarify in terms of the the Seeker items, it's that connectivity, the parking is there anything else on the planning end.

E

No, the parking in the Seeker I mean the sidewalk connection. Yeah, um all the rest of them, I think have been covered. I was satisfied with the uh the archaeological and the other information you provided. Okay, yeah.

V

So we'll focus on that and on the engineering items that are yeah affecting secret right.

C

With regards to storm order, Mike, if you do, if they do uh do land banking on here, I would still size out the stormwater facilities so that when they get constructed, it's not something else that needs to be looked at at that time. It'll be present for.

E

G

E

Sound like to say the land banking happen at the entry point, not at the far end, because you know having coming in here would be nice if that was a landscaped.

D

E

Rather than a back out area right.

A

And he said, archeology is done.

V

Yeah they did the uh phase one Whatever.

E

Phase 1A was.

A

Done no, no, nothing of historic significance. No.

E

They said that this was so worked over by all the factory Mill sites in the beginning, and that sort of thing it's been um jumbled enough that they and it's been filled. It's you know, there's been a lot of activity here over the years. I didn't think anything would be left.

G

I'm I keep waiting for one of these applications to come up with something really good. Just.

C

Like that flashing red light.

G

We need a dummy light on the corner.

E

I would like to see that sidewalk moved away from the building, so they could be landscaped on both sides and have more of a naturalistic feel around the building, rather than having it butt up against the building.

V

My opinion yeah I, have to make the building smaller we're tight over there, but no we'll yeah we'll look at that.

E

Okay I mean not on Navy on all four sides, I understand with on the parking side and on maybe even the greenway Trail side. Unless you want to use the greenway Trail as your pedestrian element on that side and Link it up. That makes sense why I have parallel sidewalks next to the greenway.

V

Trail, no, you can just connect to that. Yeah yeah.

G

V

All right thank.

G

G

Great so we'll go to our next agenda item. Is this you too, hello leave some for the other attorneys.

J

G

J

Record, would you like to uh delete it.

G

Yeah so we're gonna introduce this is the continued review of.

A

Application for site plan approval and subdivision lot: merger approval for mixed-use, commercial and residential. We got three at four three.

G

Or four no three addresses 393 first kill.

A

397 fish killing seven Conklin Street- and this is your cue.

B

All right, the applicant is proposing to construct a three-story mixed-use building in the general business district, including a 3500 square square, feet of first floor, commercial space and 12 Apartments three adjoining Lots will be combined um with a combined 0.62 Acres will be merged through the subdivision process. This action is an unlisted action. A notice of intent to be lead agency was circulated, uh no objections were received and the planning board May declare itself lead agency at tonight's meeting.

A

So we'll do that first motion to declare planning boards to the beacon, lead agency motion motion by Jill second by Kevin, all in favor, aye, great and so we're under continued secret review.

A

um So yeah. Why don't you just share with us um where we're at great thanks for your progress and we'll go from.

J

There all right, thank you, Mr chairman members of the board, for the record. My name is Taylor t, storms, Palmer law, form of Cuddy and fader on behalf of the applicant I am joined by Rea Jim, Cantore Siegel, uh our project architect, and our engineer, Mike uh Storm, Chaser Bowden door for continues to Moonlight as Dan Kohler from Hudson Land Design, our traffic consultant as Rich danderry who's, not with us this evening, and then our landscape designers, Deborah Adamson, we're also joined by the applicant Mr Houck. As the chair stated.

J

As the plain board attorney mentioned, we are here before you for a subdivision or lot merger and site plan approval for the Redevelopment of the property, involving the three lots. The chairman mentioned for a three-story mixed-use commercial multi-family residential development. As was discussed at our December 13th meeting, the board did circulates lead agency circulation. So again we appreciate the board adopting or excuse me declaring itself lead agency this evening, since that meeting is detailed in our December 27th letter for members of the board that are joining us this evening.

J

The applicant has received a response from the shippo finding that the project will not have any impact historic or cultural resources, and we did also receive response from DEC saying no objection to you serving and then providing their General comments about projects in the area as detailed just for a quick update in our site plan set, the building footprint was modified to provide 20-foot side yard setbacks on both sides of the building.

J

It was an interesting it's it's a very unique zoning district with respect to the corner lot, so that was adjusted and they also maintained parking layouts, so it's Ada accessible, then the proposed freestanding sign was relocated to the corner of Fishkill, Avenue and Conklin to avoid conflict with the drainage system. The Landscaping plan also includes a plant list now and in our recent submission. We also included an ini report which I can have Mike speak to in a moment but effectively.

J

It says that there are no illicit connections to the existing system and that a a drainage report concluded that the additionum of storm water management would actually increase the peak runoff rate, so no storm water management is proposed. Storm system management system is proposed here we are coordinating. Currently we haven't finished that process yet with the building department to have an emergency services review similar to the first application that was before you this evening.

J

Firematic access, if you may, for the February meeting, we will also be getting you building elevations, so you'll have the Fuller picture this. We want to make sure our our project design was more set before providing any renderings to that effect, um and while the comments from the city's draft consultant were limited, we will we did incorporate responses into our cover letter to you all, but we will put them on to Collier's formal uh response to comments for that. So um with that I know Mike.

J

If you want to quickly touch on a few notes and then it was Jensen has any questions with respect to the site plan. We can certainly uh lay that out more uh detail.

K

So, just to piggyback on Taylor's comments on the ini study, we still have some more work to do on that. There was one building that we couldn't access yet legally. We do have that permission now, so we will continue that study and update that ini report. As far as the storm water management system, um we are providing he's calling the storm water management system as something as as we were, providing detention or something like that.

K

We are providing a storm water management system that will be series of catch basins piping, to convey storm water into the dot system, um and there is certain dot criteria that you have to meet for when you're tying into their system, and we found that by providing detention on the site, actually exacerbated the dot piping versus not providing any detention at all. So what essentially, what we're doing is we're beating the peak flow, that's in the dot system by getting our flow out quicker.

K

So it's it's a weird situation, but it does happen. Sometimes.

K

And similarly, a lot of the projects that we've done on the Fishkill Creek and we're doing on the project that was just before you before is we're meeting the the stormwater requirements in terms of water quality and I'm. Talking about the hip project, you know the fish go. Creek is a large watershed.

K

You know it it's going to Peak a day later than most of these small watersheds within a city. So what we're doing there similarly, is we're providing the treatment we're providing the runoff reduction as part of a project that requires a swim, but we're getting that drainage out quicker than the peak flows occur at the Fishkill Creek at that point, so this is. This is a much smaller scale version of that, but it's a similar so.

G

So this is cool. How does this work, meaning you're.

A

Going to have runoff into the dot system coming from further Upstream yeah and what you're saying is that, rather than peed it through the system, you described you're going to get it out before that Peak flow, correct.

G

C

G

Like tricky tricky math to me, if.

C

You detain it on site and then release it later, you're, releasing it at the point that actual Peak is coming from.

G

C

Areas so it increases it so dot in their guidelines, basically States, that if you do these studies- and you show that you're going to increase the peak, they want you to release it before the peak.

G

I see so how do you know when the peak's gonna happen? I mean that's? That's.

H

Pretty complex.

C

Yeah we're Downstream enough that it can be released now and basically that section of Fishkill Creek is basically right. There connection at the Hudson, so.

K

Yeah, if there was only a small series of pipes like that, went up, maybe 50 feet up Route 52 that we were tying into that wouldn't apply, because that Peak would happen at the same time as our site. But in.

L

This case there's a much larger.

K

Watershed in the system that we're tying into is.

L

This only the case for smaller projects that you can do this no.

K

It's no it's it's Unique to this situation is, it happens in other areas, but all the parts have to be in place for that to be, and.

L

The infiltration isn't as important as getting it off the site is the well.

C

One, it would be difficult to infiltrate on the site, given the right right.

K

Yeah, so that's so all you're doing is you're detaining.

C

It um you know, okay rock clay, but you could have it on larger sites where they could be looking releasing to a fifth order stream and more or less like the Hudson, is a fifth order stream or river. Basically,.

C

You would be analyzing that and taking a look at when the peak actually comes on that and based upon guidelines from DEC. They would ask you to release your Peak off your site before the river actually peeked out, because you create more of a flooding, Hazard.

T

I mean the root cause here is being right. Next to and fairly above the level of a much larger Watershed right, I, don't know complicated to.

A

Me yeah I'm, just yeah I've, never heard of this before and it's this whole idea of being able to anticipate the peak and getting in before. It is just absolutely remember.

T

All the flooding we do to me remember everything that happened right before Christmas and then you walk down to Fishkill, Creek and all the oriented stuff. But Fishkill Creek was up really high.

G

T

A delay because everything's draining into it yeah.

A

Right no I get it I get it, it all makes sense. It makes common sense. It's just I didn't know that you could predict for this stuff. It's.

K

Cool yeah, you don't really know the situation until you start running the numbers. Yeah.

D

K

A

Lot of it too I'm sure uh great.

G

V

Yeah, so so, basically, we um reset the footprint of the building on the site plan, so we maintain the setbacks that we're required to have so the the plans will follow along in the building. Elevations can be developed now.

V

um The only thing I wanted to mention was: we have that recreation area on the left side of the building yeah and where Mike's office is still looking at the grading over. There is probably going to be a retaining wall and some steps down to it from that upper level so that we can flatten that out and have that be a usable Recreation space that can have those tables and.

A

This is to the South side, yeah.

V

Yeah, that's over.

C

A

C

Is there going to be Ada accessible in any way, shape or form for people? It.

V

Will be from the sidewalk, but you know, but basically from it has to be stairs from the upper level on the uh on the uphill side.

G

V

G

That any other questions about the board.

L

A

Mine, the question is your observation. The.

L

There's work proposed for 52 in that area, right, there's our sidewalks and other things. Yes,.

C

Yeah and that's part of they've discussed they've been incorporating I, provided the plans that I have for that project to the consultant in the beginning of this okay, so that they can incorporate what is going to be occurring, and that's why we also have requested that they look at installing their utilities on Conklin Street, because once fiscal Avenue is done, they.

G

Ain't going back in, they.

A

C

Going back in unless they get in there prior to the project, it's not going to happen.

T

I did see that have you been able to confirm that that water and slimes on Conklin are going to be sufficient to accommodate that they.

C

Will be okay, there's actually I, believe it's a 12 or 14 I've asked them to confirm, but they're um is a 12 inch minimum on Conklin Street as far as water goes that actually Services the rombout water district in the town of Fishkill. So it runs through there through the state prison facility. All the way over.

K

And we did confirm that it's a 14 inch double coming down. Conklin.

D

E

Great I I have one other point that didn't make it in my letter, I forgot to put it in um 52 is pretty Barren when it comes to Street trees, and this is the first opportunity to really start to change that pattern, as new development happens down 52 to put in Street trees. Now the way they're setting the sidewalk so close to the curb line, you're not going to get trees between the sidewalk and the curb.

E

So what I'm going to ask is that you put in Street trees as close to the sidewalk as possible on a regular basis. She has a couple trees out front and a couple oak trees by the parking lot, one more Oak Tree on Conklin and moving all of them up to the front as close to the sidewalk as manageable would start to create a sense of Street trees along this project. Frontage.

V

As opposed to trying to get them into the cities,.

E

Yeah, it's only like two and a half three feet: I you're not going to get straight trees along the state highway at the curb line. Unfortunately, I think those plans are already set. So unless.

D

E

Five feet or so I think you're gonna have to put them on the inside of the sidewalk, but I would just pull them up close to the property line and put them at a regular interval. So they're, you know 30 40 feet apart or so. Okay on both Conklin and 52.

M

I had a question about the impact on the you utilities on Conklin. Is that going to be? Can they accommodate that, because that that townhouse development is going in back there.

C

Oh Beacon views. Yes,.

M

It can accommodate all that. Okay.

C

Yes, um so some of the other comments I had they did do some excavation Pits on the site to see where depth Rock was I am asking that they do an additional one in the parking lot behind the one building there, which would put it into the portion of the two-story building and then I'm asking them to take a harder look at the Landscaping, as we have trees directly on top of the retaining wall and impacting some other utilities, so you're going to have to revise their Landscaping plan and then the rest of it is just clean up items as they develop the plans further.

G

Great thanks, as.

E

Soon, as we could get the building elevations, we could schedule an architecture.

A

Architectural committee.

J

Yeah, so it would be helpful sure by way thank you John for taking. That was my bold Point. um So just for the ARB subcommittee purposes, Rea is finishing those elevations, so we're trying to figure out in past instances with Mr Buckley or Mr Dexter. We would schedule meeting through the building inspector and then that would be how it would be on a Friday.

J

Typically, you know associated with planning board meetings, so just want to make sure I know: we've done a lot of helpful organizations as far as that is that still the process with the air, because Aria is going to have that ready for the submission and we'd hope to maybe make a request that we might be able to meet between the January, 30th, effective deadline and the 15th meeting. So we won't be together on Valentine's, Day I'm. Sorry, um it's been to a Wednesday, the 15th, but um well Arya was gonna, be my Valentine.

J

We'll have to I'll have to find another, um but is it possible that we might be able to do might be able to have some type of coordination to have that ARB meeting on this? Knowing we're going to submit those elevations with the upcoming package in between those meetings, I think that was the our hope at least threading.

A

A needle um you're asking us to recommend you to the ARB at this point where we haven't seen, but a single 3D drawing.

J

I guess technically I'm asking for a recommendation more just the the ARB I mean if it can happen before the formal review by your board, your the board. It is just a makeup of of your board.

G

J

All will get comments and feedback to again. It was just a point of clarification. Well,.

A

Look that's one way to look at it. It really depends on. You know the board. uh If, if you feel you're ready with significant enough material to review by the ARB, we can certainly consider it.

V

Yeah I think by the time we submit for the February meeting that'll be together.

E

V

J

E

Maybe the 10th of February, the.

J

The third or the 10th, either one.

L

Yeah yeah I'd, like a heads up because I'm I'm.

J

My availability during.

L

The day working hours is is limited now.

J

Yeah, those are the two Fridays. The third is the first one after the submission or the 10th are the.

C

Two Fridays in February.

G

A

Sorry, who else is on our I'm an alternate I'm.

H

An alternate but I'm out of town on the 10th.

E

Sorry yeah Lynn is on it Len.

A

So so we'll work, the scheduling.

V

A

May be, there may be enough conflicts.

V

What was that I think I'm out of town.

A

um So we're I'm sure we can discuss uh acting on the recommendation to get you in front of the ARB we'll work. The scheduling outside of this then so um to that end, I'll accept a motion to recommend the applicant to ARB for um Architectural Review. After.

E

We received the elevation.

G

A

Would be continued upon that right, yeah I mean this will be a generic recommendation to the ARB, but everything has to be in place for you guys to actually meet schedules. Material right, I, appreciate it. Yeah, so I'll accept the motion motion motion by Kevin, second, second by uh Karen, all in favor, aye aye, and then um let's just talk about secret, real, quick. This this does fall under Secret.

B

That is correct. This is an unlisted action. um There's no Seeker action on the table right now. There's.

A

B

Lot of open items.

A

Yeah yeah, there's still work to do there. I was I, was more um working toward this idea of our tradition of a.

B

Secret public hearing it's up to you guys if you think that there are environmental issues you'd, like some public feedback on you could do the hearing. If you.

A

Know, we've kind of had it up to my ears with public hearings.

B

It is not mandated that you have a secret public hearing again. There will be an opportunity for public comments when.

A

You do your regular.

B

Subdivision hearing.

A

Yeah yeah, so um just just based on your your first point relative to whether at this point we foresee things rising to the level of significant adverse and to that degree we would want to have public aware of and comment on, I personally, don't feel like we're at that threshold or we'll ever get there so I'm advocating for.

D

A

Holding a secret public hearing um just wanted to hear around the board whether you would agree.

H

I would not agree. I think that that neighborhood has a lot of development happening and I think it warrants their.

A

Fair, your glutton for punishment, I.

M

Agree: the there was a lot of response to the beacon views, project, people yeah.

O

Fair, fair, okay and.

J

If I may, there's no secret the regulations encourage that the secret public hearings be combined with the other hearings. We will have a subdivision and site plan hearing so given nature here there might be an opportunity to consider those together. This is a lot merger, not a subdivision, we're not creating any new Lots. So Taylor's interpretation of that code has been rejected many times by the city's attorney. But notwithstanding.

G

Keep trying anyway, thanks.

D

B

Is what the glory, which makes it.

A

Okay, well we're still early to um actually schedule a sequel, public hearing, so I've just thought I'd. Thank you that theoretical exercise and see what you guys all thought about. A public hearing I think we are in agreement that we'll hold one when the time comes doesn't seem like it's. It doesn't seem that impactful yeah! Well, that's why we have the hearing.

J

Yeah and you're gonna have all those materials I mean the full baked secret ready application. You'll have well before February's Meeting. Those materials are there, but then.

A

Well, we at least have good practice at public hearing, so we.

J

Do great great thank.

G

J

Very much thank you good evening and.

G

J

A

I'll accept a motion to adjourn motion by Jill.

H

Second, second, by.

A

Karen, all in favor aye, aye we've. Oh, we almost made 10 o'clock.

B

Everyone, it was a pleasure, thank you for having.