►
Description
Overview and Scrutiny Management Board
Thursday 7th December 2017 5:00pm
Councillors: Geoff Gollop (Chair), Charlie Bolton, Tom Brook, Jude English, Gill Kirk, Brenda Massey,
Graham Morris, Anthony Negus, Estella Tincknell, Anna Keen and Donald Alexander
Papers: https://democracy.bristol.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=165&MId=2753
0:00:00 - Agenda Item 01 - Welcome, Introductions and Safety Information
0:00:16 - Agenda Item 02 - Apologies for Absence
0:02:47 - Agenda Item 03 - Declarations of Interest
0:02:54 - Agenda Item 04 - Minutes of the previous meeting
0:03:05 - Agenda Item 05 - Chair's Business
0:14:44 - Agenda Item 06 - Public Forum
0:25:20 - Agenda Item 07 - Budget Consultation
0:28:57 - Agenda Item 08 - Council Tax Base Report 18/19
0:51:26 - Agenda Item 10 - Safeguarding Adults and Safeguarding Children Boards Annual Reports 16-17
1:57:21 - Agenda Item 09 - Collection Fund Surplus/Deficit Report 2017/18
2:22:08 - Agenda Item 15 - Budget Monitor Report
2:24:34 - Agenda Item 11 - The Arena - position paper
2:41:34 - Agenda Item 12 - Scrutiny Work Programme - including arising items
2:42:06 - Agenda Item 13 - Task and Finish Groups - updates from Chairs
2:55:32 - Agenda Item 14 - Ways of Working - Feedback (verbal item)
2:55:49 - Agenda Item 16 - Mayor's Forward Plan
2:56:29 - Agenda Item 17 - Information Item: Scrutiny Dates 17/18
A
Firstly,
I've
I've
been
extremely
careless,
since
we
last
met
because
I've
lost
a
vice
chairman,
because
you
members
members
will
be
aware
that
Madonna
has
been
elevated
to
the
ranks
of
the
cabinet
and
therefore
we
do
have
a
vacant
position
and
we
are
waiting
for
notification
of
who
that
permanent
member
will
be.
But
in
the
meantime
it's
always
a
pleasure
to
welcome
Steve
back
to
join
us
and
I
can
just
see
him
at
the
far
end
of
the
room
and
this
gloomy
light.
A
A
A
C
B
C
A
B
A
A
vice
chair
is
everybody
happy
with
that
yep.
Okay,
welcome
aboard
to
that
position
temporarily
at
any
rate,
Don,
so
I
also
have
apologies
from
Anthony
Negus,
who
is
running
late
and
is
expecting
to
be
here
by
6
o'clock
and
from
Jill
who
is
running
early.
Who
will
have
to
leave
at
7:30,
so
I
think
that's
I
think
that's
all
I've
got
under
apologies.
A
Declarations
of
interest
do
I.
Have
any
declarations
of
interest
remembers?
No,
no
declarations
of
interest
minutes
of
the
previous
meeting
have
being
circulated.
Is
everybody
happy
there
I
sign
a
copy
of
those
is
a
correct
record,
yep.
Okay!
So
then
we
move
on
to
item
five
chairs
business
and
I
have
a
series
of
items
to
raise
here.
The
first
is
is
simply
in
terms
of
this
agenda
that
the
two
chairs
of
the
safeguarding
board
are
traveling
to
be
with
us.
So
that
item
has
been
putted
item
ten
on
the
agenda.
A
Should
they
arrive
by
train
and
join
us
earlier
in
the
agenda?
I
would
hope,
without
causing
too
much
interference
to
the
finance
team,
to
possibly
interrupt
their
presentation
and
and
take
that
item
on
the
agenda,
because
they
then
got
a
distance
to
travel
back
home
again
afterwards
and
given
the
weather
I
think
it
would
only
be
fair
to
take
that
as
soon
as
we
can
so
I
hope.
Members
are
happy
with
that.
A
Members
have
had
circulated
a
metro
bus
update,
I
asked
for
officers
to
prepare
a
note
for
us,
because
I
felt
sure
there
would
be
a
fair
amount
of
concern
at
the
suggestions
in
the
media
that
Metro
bus
implementation
would
be
delayed
until
April
may
next
year.
So
members
have
had
that
update,
circulated.
I,
don't
really
want
to
have
a
lengthy
debate
about
it,
or
indeed
any
real
debate
about
it.
Other
than
to
ask
members
whether
you
how
you
would
like
to
proceed
with
that,
we
can
do
nothing.
A
A
Very
happy
with
that
would
would
wouldn't
anyone
like
to
you
know,
draw
up
thoughts
through
email
and
send
them
to
Andrea
myself,
and
we
can.
We
can
work
out
some
suggestions
on
how
we
move
forward
for
one
of
our
numerous
meetings
that
coming
up
in
the
next
three
or
four
weeks,
so
that
will
give
us
time
to
reconsider
what
we
do.
Okay,
thank
you.
A
B
Although
I
would
like
to
raise
the
possibility
of,
we
have
discussed
it
a
little
bit
about.
There
are
some
issues
like
Metro
bus
traffic
in
general,
lots
of
place
related
stuff
that
it
might
be
good
to
have
a
let's
imagine
a
pop
up
place,
Commission
that
could
deal
with
some
of
these
things
in
an
afternoon
or
something
just
to
throw
that
one
out
there.
A
Thank
You
Jude
that
that
takes
me
neatly
on
to
the
next
item.
I
was
going
to
bring
up,
which
is
sort
of
precursor
to
the
new
ways
of
working
item
later
on
the
agenda,
which
I
fear
we
might
not
arrive
at
very
early
this
evening.
So
I
was
just
going
to
erase
some
points,
namely
for
party
leads
discussed
at
our
meeting
earlier.
This
month.the
the
way
the
task
and
finish
groups
are
working.
A
We
took
the
view
that
the
hot
house
approach
that
we
use
to
come
up
with
this
mechanism.
Wass
is
a
very
positive
way
of
engaging
actually
resulted
in
too
many
options
being
considered
and
what
we
were
going
to
try
and
do
was
between
the
Leeds
work
up
some
proposals
that
we
will
then
share
with
azam
and
share
with
a
wider
membership
of
council,
so
you've
got
you've
had
email
to
you,
the
timeline
that
we're
planning
to
use
to
to
do
that.
A
We
want
it
to
be
engaging,
not
not
not
not
not
something
that
excludes
members
from
having
an
opinion,
but
we
do
want
to
try
and
overcome
some
of
the
shortcomings
that
I
know.
Members
have
expressed
about
how
the
current
way
of
working
is
operating
so
you've
had
that,
and
this
was
ready
to
just
make
sure
it
was.
It
was
brought
into
the
public
domain
and
and
included
in
the
notes
of
this
meeting.
So
that
is
it's
there
for
all
to
see
I'm
just
trying
to
check
what
my
handwriting
says
here
in
this
wonderful
light.
A
A
It
will
be
a
closed
meeting
because
it's
looking
at
the
business
plans
for
the
holding
company
and
the
waste
company
and
also
a
report
on
the
governance
of
those
companies,
so
I
just
wanted
to
flag
that
up
the
date,
some
selected
itself,
because
it
had
to
be
a
question
when
the
information
was
going
to
be
available
and
when
and
and
as
far
away
from
Christmas
as
possible,
and
in
fact
that
was
therefore
the
only
possible
date.
I
know
it's
inconvenient
for
some
members
and
I
can
only
apologize
for
that.
A
But
it's
actually
really
important
that
we
we
start
to
share
that
information,
albeit
in
that
confidential
environment.
That
will
be
four
members
of
azam
and
party
group
leads
leaders
to
attend
as
well,
so
that
and
you
will
have
confidential
access
to
the
papers
from
I
think
Monday
of
next
week,
so
so
that
information
will
be
available.
You'll
have
you'll
have
to
book
through
Andrea's
team
to
actually
see
those
papers
in
advance
and
copies
of
them
will
be
available
at
the
meeting,
but
just
to
emphasize
that
that
is
confidential
information
Jude
just.
B
To
add
to
both
those
issues
really
so
to
say,
thank
you
for
the
democratic
services
team
for
organizing
for
councilor
Negus
council
for
myself
to
go
to
the
national
scrutiny
conference
earlier
in
the
week,
which
was
incredibly
useful
and
interesting.
I
have
to
say,
I'll,
be
reporting
back
to
the
Democratic
Services
team
directly
and
so
we'll
cancel
Anita's
council
cloth.
B
But
there
was
some
things
about
the
way
we
are
working
in
scrutiny
at
the
moment,
which
I
think
we
need
to
reflect
on,
and
it
was
really
useful
to
talk
to
colleagues
from
around
the
country
and
scrutiny
staff
from
other
councils,
and
also
there
was
some
interesting
stuff
about
the
issues.
Confidentiality
with
regard
to
businesses,
which
I
think
we
also
need
to
look
at
in
more
depth.
A
Thomas
noted
Jude
I
would
only
say
at
this
stage
that
if
we
were
risks,
if
we
were
disclosing
information
about
the
companies,
I
think
it
would
take
significantly
longer
for
the
information
to
be
available
for
consideration
and
therefore,
at
this
stage
it's
better
that
it's
shared
even
in
confidence.
If
this
is
business
plan,
information
which
is
highly
confidential,
there
are
other
issues
relating
to
the
companies
which
are
totally
with
you
on
and
I
will
continue
to
encourage
that
information
being
made
more
readily
available.
Just.
B
Just
to
make
the
point
that
there
were
some
specific
conversations
around
councils
and
institutions,
kind
of
tending
to
be
extremely
risk-averse
on
this
and
thinking
that
closing
things
down
is
better
than
opening
things
up,
and
in
fact
it's
it's
perhaps
that
that's
not
the
case,
but
I
mean
that's
a
conversation
for
another
time,
but
I
just
wanted
to
make
it
available
to
people
and
if
it
people
to
talk
about
them,
talk
to
me
about
it
more
in
detail.
I'm
really
happy
to
do
that.
Yeah.
A
No
I'm
sure
officers
would
welcome
that
discussion
as
well,
but,
as
I
say,
the
important
thing
is
is
to
start
the
discussion
moving
if
I
missed
anything
from
sorry,
Oh
January,
oh
yes,
there
we
are
yes,
just
also
to
mention.
We've
actually
had
a
number
of
technological
problems
for
which
well
I'm
not
actually
gonna
I
apologize
for
them,
but
given
I
can't
drive
the
system
anyway,
it's
definitely
nothing
to
do
with
me.
A
First
of
all,
today's
meeting
disappeared
from
members
Diaries
for
some
strange
inexplicable
reason
and
Andrea
and
Lucy,
and
the
IT
team
are
trying
to
find
out
why
that
is
for
those
conspiracy.
Theorists
I
can
tell
you
that
it
appears
to
also
disappeared
from
officers
Diaries
as
well.
So
so
therefore
there
is,
there
is
something
slightly
strange:
that's
gone
on,
so
that's
the
first
point.
A
The
second
point
is
that
we
have
been
looking
at
dates
for
budget
meetings
in
January
and
the
team
sent
out
a
doodle
poll
to
do
this
and
again
the
technology
winds
have
struck
because,
although
everyone's
filled
in
their
response
to
the
doodle
poll,
the
team
can't
actually
access
it
to
see
what
the
outcome
is,
which
is
you're
not
meant
to
laugh,
charlie.
Sorry,
the
proposals
are
that
we
should
have.
A
We
already
have
a
meeting
scheduled
for
the
11th
of
January
anyway,
but
that
we
should
have
two
budget
meetings
on
the
18th
and
22nd
of
January,
both
starting
at
5
p.m.
and
we
believe
those
dates
work
for
the
majority
of
people,
all
the
18th
work,
I
think
for
most
people
the
22nd
might
be
more
of
a
problem,
but
the
difficulty
with
both
of
those
is
that
we
can
only
hold
them
after
the
budget
is
produced
which
will
be
on
the
15th
of
January
or
16th
of
January.
A
So
we've
got
to
have
time
to
look
at
it
and
before
budget
cabinet,
which
is
on
the
23rd
of
January,
when
it
will
be
approved.
So
almost
those
two
dates
selected
themselves:
I
I,
was
instructing
influential
and
suggesting
that
we
probably
couldn't
do
two
dates
close
together
in
one
week
in
a
weekend
to
recover
might
be
helpful.
So
that's
why
and
can
I
just
check
with
members
that
that
you're
you're
as
happy
as
you
can
be
that
we
go
with
those
dates?
Yeah,
okay,
thank
you.
So
I
think
that
is
now
everything
that
right.
A
A
G
There
are
three
bodies
with
pearly
characteristics:
chair
involved
here,
network
rail
public's
agency
homes,
community,
another
government-owned
agency
and,
quite
frankly,
I'm
not
able
simple
single
thing
about
signage
use,
ascending
myself
and
other
people
over
cobbles,
which
compose
rep
and
smash
my
wheelchair,
and
simply
how
they're
going
to
manage
this
projects.
Also
a
notes.
The
council
is
not
working
on
this
project
over
Sunday's
evenings
or
weekends,
and
the
project
is
slowed
so
for
a
major
transport
change.
It
seems
extraordinary
when
we
need
to
get
this
completed
in
the
middle.
G
You
have
to
protect
my
characteristics
as
the
mayor
will
tell
you
you're
not
protecting
my
protected
characteristics
by
not
giving
me
access
to
the
major
station
and
bus
network
in
that
area,
or
even
allowing
me
to
cross
the
road.
Now
that
is
just
not
accept
on
in
2017,
and
my
colleagues
think
so
so
I'd
be
gratefully.
We
can
be
sorted
out.
Perhaps
we
could
have
more
than
a
bland
in
item.
The
other
item
we'd
like
to
say
it's,
nice
David.
We
just
that's,
that's
that
when.
A
I
say
that,
because
you
actually
have
prompted
me
because
I
had
I
written
down
and
then
mistaked
that
I
wanted
to
raise
the
response
to
your
questions,
and
given
that
we
have
three
cabinet
members
here
and
three
members
of
of
the
senior
leadership
team
can
I
can
I
just
say:
I
read
those
question.
The
answers
and
I
was
embarrassed
because
I
I
find
it
incredible
that
you
have
had
to
raise
these
fundamental
points
and
the
the
responses
basically
said.
A
C
A
A
B
G
We
have,
we
have
now
one
disabled
access.
You
have
four
dis
accesses
as
able-bodied
people
to
that
railway
station
I
now
have
just
one:
the
city,
council,
network,
rail,
Weka
and
and
the
home
simply
left
me
was
just
one
entrance
and
it's
so
serious
that
transport
focus.
The
independent
government
watchdog
is
now
heavily
involved
in
this.
So
this
needs
resolving.
A
G
May
I
made
my
points
about
the
rail
franchise,
but
yeah
you
will
have
to
look
at
and
I
think.
Maybe
that's
something
for
a
special
place
meeting
it's
that
serious
and
we
need
to
decide
what
we're
going
to
do
at
local
rail,
including
your
Hembree
loop,
and
you
bought
this
headline
and
what
the
government's
going
to
do
with
the
franchise
because
going
to
break
it
up
some
major
intercity
trains
going
to
stay
with
one
franchise
with
the
Thames
Valley.
G
All
the
local
trains
in
the
southwest
are
going
to
go
into
a
separate
franchise
like
we
used
to
have
years
ago,
and
they
will
be
lost
mate.
They
will
cost
the
Treasury
a
hundred
million
a
year
to
run,
whereas
in
the
moment
they
they
cross
subsidize.
So
we
really
need
to
have
a
look
at
this.
Both
the
wacker
level,
Southwest
councils
and
I
would
suggest
it's
worth
a
special
meeting
a
place.
It's
that
serious
on
Metro
West
I
want
to.
Please
pick
up
the
other
issue
that
the
forum
has
asked
me
to
raise.
G
G
We
need
to
understand
where
the
disabled
toilets
going
in
this
city,
I've
been
refused
number
of
times
you
trying
to
use
pumps
and
and
and
restaurants
unless
I
want
to
buy
a
mail
or
or
or
buy
a
drink.
The
only
totes
I've
got
at
the
Vader
at
the
moment
and
ones
in
the
shopping
centers
run
by
private
sector
or
the
ones
the
City
Council
provide.
For
me
with
my
radar
key
and
my
colleagues
have
the
same
thing
and
a
changing
place
at
cribs
causeway.
We
don't
have
changing
places
in
the
city
center.
G
Unfortunately,
we
do
in
Kabul
Circus,
so
I
very
grateful
Marvin
is
said,
he's
going
to
make
a
list
I
believe
some
of
those
toilets
which
I
fully
agree,
they're
being
pried
transferred
to
the
private
sector,
I'm
very
happy
to
have
them
transferred
to
the
private
sector
and
run
by
business,
some
of
the
ones
in
the
city
center.
But
it
would
be
grateful
if
we
could
come
back
to
us,
especially
the
ones
on
key
transfers,
changes,
hubs
and
remember.
Our
tourism
economy
is
1.3
billion,
1.3
billion
pound
a
year
goes
in
tourism
in
this
city.
G
That's
a
huge
amount
of
the
city's
economy
not
to
have
access
to
public,
lose
visitors,
whether
a
poor
disabled
body
or
ever
we
earned
our
money
from
tourism.
These
days
in
this
city,
we've
got
to
make
sure
this
service
is
absolutely
protected.
Otherwise,
we'll
hit
the
national
news
and
the
European
press
for
all
the
wrong
reasons.
So
we
need
to
get
this
property
sorted
out.
Nice
words
and
reports.
Don't
don't
do
anything
for
the
community
I
represent.
Thank
you.
H
Good
evening,
I
will
be
brief.
I've
posed
three
questions
for
you
to
look
at
because
I'm
effectively
asking
you
to
instigate
an
investigation
into
cycling
mission.
Three.
Firstly,
I
suspect
that
some
interesting
exercises
were
carried
out
around
your
compulsory
tendering
rules
to
avoid
letting
contracts
that
should
have
gone
to
compulsory
tendering.
Secondly,
it
now
transpires
that
you've
spent
eighty
three
thousand
six
hundred
pounds
on
a
consultation
exercise,
but
failed
to
tell
the
public
that,
in
fact,
part
of
that
consultation
was
already
decided
in
advance.
H
Thirdly,
there
are
some
very
interesting
numbers
being
used
by
the
council.
Sixteen
thousand
journeys
an
hour
in
an
area
of
Eastern
which
is
actually
not
East
and,
as
you
think
of
it,
but
about
a
third
of
the
area
that
you
were
considered
and
855
people
attending
workshops.
That's
actually,
if
you
look
at
appendix
one
855,
attendances
and
workshops,
it
is
proving
impossible
to
get
the
council
to
actually
say
how
many
people
actually
attended.
An
outstanding
Freedom
of
Information
request
was
put
up
in
back
in
the
summer.
It's
been
to
the
Information
Commissioner.
A
Right,
thank
you.
That
concludes
public
forum
statements.
Public
forum
question,
Philippa
Bongard
has
been
answered,
but
as
Phillip
is
not
here,
then
we
have
no
supplementary
is
on
that.
So
we
move
on
to
item
seven
on
the
agenda,
which
is
the
budget
consultation
members
have
had
the
full
budget
consultation
circulated
and
the
main
item
that
we
need
to
look
at
and
confirm
tonight
really
and
under
confirm
our
understanding
of
is
the
timeline
which
is
the
front
of
that
section
pages
17
to
89.
I
Yeah,
so
in
terms
of
the
four
items
that
you
have
in
front,
you
today,
so
the
first
being
the
budget
timeline
that
which
will
take
us
from
where
we
are
now
up
to
the
production
of
the
budget
at
full
council
on
the
20th
of
February.
You
also
have
in
front
of
you
the
corporate
strategy
and
the
budget
information
booklet,
which
will
have
the
propositions
that
are
being
considered
and
I
will
like
to
take
this
point
to
know
that
they
are
still
propositions.
No
decisions
have
been
made,
read
the
content.
I
These
are
all
four
considerations:
options
for
bridging
the
budget
gap
and
similarly,
you
also
have
a
very
short
budget
survey
and
I
think
in
terms
of
just
providing
a
very
quick
overview
context
in
terms
of
the
the
council's
financial
position.
I
wanted
by
way
of
introduction
to
just
give
an
overarching
reminder
to
where
we
are
now,
which
is
a
net
budget
in
2017
18
of
365
million
reminder
that
it's
really
challenging
financial
times,
and
that
assumes
a
33
million
pound
of
savings
in
you.
I
And
when
you
look
at
the
budget
information
part,
you
will
see
that
by
2020
223
we
will
still
be
spending
394
million,
even
after
making
the
you
know
if
we
make
the
savings
that
are
being
proposed
and-
and
that
is
an
increase
of
30
million,
so
I
think
it's
actually
just
reminding
that
there
is
still
significant
investment
going
into
service
provision.
I.
Think
in
terms
of
colleagues,
we
are
all
here
today
to
actually
answer
any
questions
that
you
you
have,
and
we
have
portfolio
holders
here
as
well,
and
should
there
be
anything
specific.
A
Thank
You
Denise,
my
my
suggestion
is
that
what
members
may
wish
to
do
is
look
at
questions
of
a
general
basis
that
they
will
want
to
ask
of
finance
officers
or
senior
officers
in
terms
of
the
budget
and
that
the
logic
would
be
to
draft
those
questions
and
for
us
to
try
and
work
them
up
and
provide
them
to
the
finance
team
in
sufficient
time
for
them
to
be
able
to
prepare
answers
before
our
meetings.
Now,
that
would
be
the
suggestion,
but
really
it's
just
open
to
any
comments.
A
A
J
Thank
You
Jay
two
reports
for
you,
both
both
the
statutory
reports.
We
brought
them
last
year.
The
first
one
is
the
council
tax
based
report.
So
we
have
a
requirement
by
the
15th
of
January
to
set
the
council
tax
base
each
year
and
the
actual
base
itself
is
based
on
a
report
called
CT
b1,
which
is
a
statutory
report
that
our
revenue
colleagues
here
prepare.
So
it's
based
entirely
to
start
with
on
data
from
our
system.
So
there's
no
manipulation
on
that
report
at
all
comes
from
Northgate
a
revenue
system
and
valuation
office
reports.
J
What
we
then
try
to
do
is
to
second
guess,
where
we're
going
to
be
with
new,
build
properties
and
discounts,
exemptions,
etc.
Student
exemptions,
single
occupancy
exemptions
and
discounts
and
come
up
with
a
revised
council
tax
base,
and
that's
what
you
see
in
this
report.
So
it's
a
mixture
of
a
factual
point
in
time,
plus
an
estimate
of
where
we
think
we're
going
to
be
by
the
beginning
of
April
main
consideration,
of
course,
is
we've
got
we've.
J
K
You
Joe
I'm
sure
a
lot
of
us
are
very
concerned
about
the
number
of
student,
the
fact
that
they
don't
pay
council
taxes.
So
we
don't
get
any
income
I'm,
just
wondering
whether
there
is
any
discussions
for
the
universities
about
this
through
the
City
office,
or
you
know:
where
are
we
up
to
in
negotiations
with
the
universities
as
to
how
they
might
be
making
a
contribution
towards
the
city
as
their
students
take
up
a
large
part
of
our
city
really
make
no
contribution.
L
And,
and
and
and
the
core
cities
are
certainly
working
together
to
have
discussions
with
with
the
D
CLG
about
this,
but
it
is
as
things
down
these
are
statutory
requirements
and
the
council
is
required
to
you
know,
sort
of
to
ensure
that
the
that
those
discounts
that
those
exemptions
are
abided
by,
and
that
includes
not
just
individual
households.
It
includes
the
you
know
the
developments
which
just
depress
student,
you
know
dedicated
student
accommodation,
sure.
K
I
stand
that
we
cut,
you
know,
there's
not
much.
That
can
be
done
about
it
on
the
counts
of
tax
base,
but
it's
just
you
know.
I
know
within
the
council,
we've
had
conversations
about
other
ways
that
the
universities
can
make
a
contribution,
not
through
the
council
attacks
but
through
other
well
all
sorts
of
other
ideas,
but
so
it
was
a
wider
discussion.
I
was
referring
to
really
I.
L
Suppose,
reserve
the
wider
discussion
or
interns
like
that.
The
redevelopments
within
the
regeneration
of
temple
needs,
for
example,
where
that
will
have
a
major
impact
on
on
the
you
know,
sort
of
the
in
other
ways.
Within
the
benefits
of
the
city,
I
mean
students
do
tend
to
bring
other
benefits
to
the
city
in
in
terms
of
supporting
local
businesses
in
other
ways,
and
also
there
is
a
uniquely
within
Bristol.
L
M
I
just
quickly
check
down
on
thats
all
right
yeah,
just
to
say
that
I
mean
there
are
conversations
ongoing
between
Marvin
and
the
Vice
Chancellors
of
the
universe
is,
and
so
on,
about
how
we
can
get
them
to
chip
in
into
this.
This
Bristol
fund
that
we're
hopefully
going
to
create
for
the
city
office,
which
is
where
corporates
and
other
organisations
put
their
sort
of
charitable
CSR
money
into
a
POC.
So
we
can
then
direct
it
towards
tackling
homelessness
or
any
other
sort
of
specific
plan.
Those
conversations
are
going
on,
but
they
are
sensitive.
E
They
start
report
says
the
growth
in
tech.
Space
of
1.3
percent
is
less
than
the
1.5%
assumed
in
the
medium
term
financial
plan
I'm
guessing
that
medium
time.
Financial
plan
therefore
has
assumptions
for
the
medium
term.
If
this
is
less
than
that,
is
it's
led
to
a
shortfall
of
700,000?
Is
that
a
one-off?
Is
it
a
cause
of
concern
for
the
future?
Is
it
so
very
inaccurate
science
in
coming
up
the
estimates
for
the
growth
anyway
can.
M
I,
come
back
on
that
one
as
well
so
and
over
the
years
we've
been
or
the
council
has
been
accused
of
being
too
conservative
in
his
estimating
of
the
case
of
that
space.
So
this
year
we
tried
to
be
more,
not
risky
but
more
accurate,
I,
think
and
learning
on
previous
years
experience
and
so
to
get
within
0.12
percent.
M
It's
not
actually
that
bad
considering
but
yeah
I
mean
it
is
a
concern,
but
this
is
much
more
accurate
than
in
previous
years,
where
actually,
we've
we've
been
off
by
by
many
millions
and
and
to
the
detriment
of
kinds
of
services.
I
think
this
is
is
this
is
the
key
point
in
the
report,
but
I
don't
think
it's
as
bad
as
it
definitely
has
been
in
the
past
or
could
be
in
the
future,
but
it.
E
L
I
think
it
can.
So
if
you
look
at
paid
for
the
table,
you
actually
see
that
how
it
is
a
bit
lumpy
in
terms
of
the
changes
year
on
year.
So
over
a
period
one
and
a
half
percent
is
probably
a
reasonable
estimate
of
growth
and
clearly
we
work
closely
with
colleagues
in
planning
to
look
at
what
the
new
opportunities
are
likely
to
be
in
terms
of
housing.
L
F
L
B
Yesterday,
I
did
listen
to
someone
from
the
local
government
in
somebody.
Works
in
finance
in
Westminster.
Give
some
really
really
really
worrying
figures
about
the
future
of
the
country
and
austerity
in
general,
but
we
were
talking
about
Bret's,
say
now:
is
there
any
modeling
that
you've
done
that
thinks
about,
as
as
we
have
a
high
number
of
probably
you
know
people
from
the
European
Union
who
may
leave
the
city?
B
Do
we
know
whether
that's
like
you
could
call
it
brexit
flight
or
whatever
the
kind
of
disappearance
of
those
who
have
we
thought
about
that
or
made
any
plans
for
that,
because
I
think
that
could
be
a
significant
impact
on
our
finances
as
well.
Just
just
a
that's
a
question
more
than
anything
because
I
don't
hear
too
much
about
our
brexit
strategy
and
the
council
at
the
moment,
not
quite
sure
who's
in
charge
of
it.
In.
I
Terms
of
planning
for
any
potential
implications
of
breaks
it.
We
will
be
picking
that
up
when
we
actually
look
at
the
risk
profile,
so
we'll
look
at
the
risk
to
some
of
the
areas
such
as
like
business
rates.
As
a
result,
some
the
potential
risk
to
council
tax
and
what
we'll
do
when
we
produce
the
budget
plan
is
that
there'll
be
a
risk
matrix
which
will
have
that
as
one
of
the
components
and
then
there'll
be
a
risk
Reserve
that
needs
to
be
put
into
place
until
we
have
greater
certainty
about
the
way
forward.
I
B
D
Don't
have
a
Greek
passport,
so
afraid
I
have
to
stay,
it
come
what
make
just
a
quickie
and
if
I've
understood
it
correctly,
when
a
house
is
materially
refurbished,
extended
in
quite
a
big
way.
When
that
house
is
sold,
the
new
owners
supposed
to
declare
it
they've
moved
in
and
the
house
can
be
revalued
two
can
go
up
a
band
or
two.
Is
there
any
checking
of
that
taking
place
because
it's
masses
of
development
work
taking
place
in
Bristol
and
the
houses
that
are
on
so
quite
quickly.
N
Hello,
Paul
Cimbri
from
the
revenues
department,
we
have
a
valuation,
dissipation
team
and
basically
we
get
a
notification
from
the
Building
Control
team
of
all
extensions
they
are
built.
The
process
is,
then
that
we
have
to
log
them
with
the
valuation
office
and
there's
two
key
elements
that
enable
the
foundation
office
to
actually
look
at
that
band
in
one
is
it
there
is
a
revaluation
which
are
hasn't
been
since
93.
N
There
is
quite
of
obviously
it's
unfortunate
for
people
to
take
over,
because
they're
not
really
aware
that
they're
gonna
get
a
increased
cash
tax
bill,
because
you
know
the
extensions
probably
been
there
potentially
for
a
10-15
years.
So
there's
no.
What
it's
basically
there
for
and
say
with
somebody
it
puts
an
outlay
in
to
actually
build
that
extension.
Then
they
shouldn't
be
penalized
for
that,
but
the
person
it
bellick
boys
that
should
have
to
pay
the
fair
way.
It's.
A
We've
seen
a
downward
trend
ever
since
the
scheme
was
introduced,
but
do
we
know
whether
that
downward
trend
is
it's
potentially
reversible?
In
other
words,
is
it
purely
because
the
economy
has
been
growing
and
that
if
the
economy
were
to
deteriorate,
it
would
reverse
the
other
way
or
other
changes
such
that?
In
fact,
we
don't
anticipate.
That
will
happen,
because
my
worry
is
that
we
will
only
discover
the
change
when
this
exercise
is
carried
out
in
December,
even
if
that
has
been
happening
effectively
for
the
previous
nine
months.
I.
A
L
A
Okay,
so
the
sets
of
the
second
question
is
in
terms
of
student
numbers.
My
simplistic
mind
says:
can
we
do
a
sort
of
control
in
total
this
says?
Well,
we
know
the
number
of
students
there
are
it
the
two
universities
and
the
various
other
institutions
and
how
many
of
them
are
in
halls
and
how
many
of
them
are
in
housing
now
I've
realized
that
that
would
almost
be
impossible,
but
much
to
my
frustration,
I
see
so
many
buildings
in
the
center
of
Bristol
being
converted
to
student
accommodation.
M
Think,
there's
probably
a
questionnaire
by
rows
in
student
numbers,
actually
would
probably
answer
that
question
in
a
sense
when
there,
because
it's
right,
the
rater
sort
of
student
exemptions,
nearly
matches
the
rate
of
right
increase
in
student
numbers,
then
you
can
probably
say
it's
not
that
it's
just
people,
because
student
numbers
are
gonna,
have
to
build
more
I.
Don't
know
that
we've
done
that,
but
I'm
sure
I
can
be
done.
But.
A
It
will
just
be
intro
and
I
think
this
is
the
wider
issue
of
student
numbers,
and
possibly
the
concern
for
it,
for
a
lot
of
members
is
that
the
numbers
that
are
coming
in
then
are
just
not
that
aren't
contributing
and
the
amount
of
sites
that
are
going
for
student
accommodation
when
they
could
be
available
for
foot
for
others.
So
I
think
there
are.
There
are
issues
there
if
we're
not
actually
getting
council
tax
out
of
them
as
well.
So
so
I
think
that
reconciliation,
understanding
what
we
might
be
helpful.
It.
M
B
I
mean
that
piece
of
work
that
we
just
been
described
there,
it's
really
quite
important
to
think
I
mean
I
asked
recently.
If
we
could
have
if
we
knew
I
mean
I,
see
in
st.
Paul's,
a
massive
number
of
buildings
student
accommodation,
I
asked
if
there
was
any
way
of
finding
out
how
many
will
be
built
in
the
next
two
years.
You
know
in
a
way
you'd
think
we
could
do
that
and
I
was
given
a
reply
that
we
couldn't
at
the
moment
so
but
I
think
we
need
to,
because
even
in
st.
B
Paul's
it
looks
just
going
through
it
on
a
regular
basis
like
there
could
be
an
increase
in
population
of
fifty
percent.
I
mean
that
that
is
going
to
have
quite
a
big
impact
on
services
and
it's
a
really
important
piece
of
work.
So
if
it's
not
being
done,
I
think
we
do
need
to
do
it
somewhere
so
whose
responsibility
would
that
be
so.
I
M
Well,
actually,
we
went
I
went
and
met
the
University
of
Reason
and
we've
actually
commissioned
them
to
do
a
piece
of
research
for
free
on
the
impacts
of
gentrification
actually
and
I.
Think
that
forms
part
of
that
conversation,
so
they
should
be
starting
doing
some
of
that
work
themselves
already.
So
I
think
we
can
probably
put
a
lot
together.
Okay,.
B
Well
Patrick,
would
it
be
possible
to
see
what
that
commissioned
piece
of
work
is
then,
to
the
council's
to
see
that,
because,
certainly
in
st.
Paul's,
it
would
I
mean
whether
that's
going
through
the
gentrification
group
or
whether
I
would
personally
be
really
interested
to
see
what
the
brief
is
for
that
because
it's
you
know
it's
as
long
as
piece
of
string.
Isn't
it
that
we.
B
O
Nicola
beech
was
here,
but
she's
gone,
but
I
know
that
if
she
was
here,
one
of
the
things
that
she
would
say
is
about.
That
is
about
the
balance
that
actually
you're
right,
that
having
custom-built
student
accommodation
does
reduce
the
number
of
students
who
are
in
houses
in
Multiple
Occupation
and
the
impact
in
neighbourhoods,
but
obviously
because
there's
a
rise
in
student
numbers
all
together.
There's
a
bit
of
both
but
I
think
that
the
evidence
in
other
cities
is
that
building
dedicated
student
housing
does
stop.
Some
of
the
sterility
of
some
neighborhoods
I.
O
Think
there's
been
particularly
a
problem
in
Leeds,
where
you
have.
You
know:
corner
shops
that
don't
open
during
the
student
holidays
and
things
like
that
because
of
the
the
impact
and
I
don't
think
that
we've
quite
tipped
over
into
as
bad
as
that
it,
but
certainly
the
quality
of
houses
that
are
converted
for
student
flats
is
improving
because
of
the
options
that
students
have
of
living
in
custom-built
student
housing.
N
Just
to
say,
we've
said
it,
but
we
got
any
information
within
the
revenues
department.
Obviously
we
know
about
accomodation,
which
is
student
purpose
bill,
and
obviously
you
know
the
appropriate
planning
to
do
that.
What
we've
noticed
is
that
some
exist
in
properties
that
have
been
privately,
let
or
now
being
led
to
students,
so
they
were
originally
like
that.
What
we've
also
noticed
is
that
landlords
are
now
getting
so
much
more
money
from
students.
They
don't
want
to,
let
it
to
individual
people.
P
What
you
were
saying
just
now,
we
I
said
on
DCA
and
recently
a
application
came
up
for
a
nine
bed
dwelling
right
in
the
middle
of
the
city
center
and
it
was
it
was.
It
appeared
to
be
a
bit
of
confusion
as
to
what
it
was,
whether
it
was
just
an
HMO
or
whether
it
was
a
student
dwelling,
a
student
accommodation
and
I.
P
Don't
really
quite
understand
how
that
all
kind
of
works
with
regard
to
the
council,
you
know
I
mean
maybe
this
isn't
the
time,
but
perhaps
you
could
come
back
to
me
to
explain
how
it
works
in
terms
of
collection
and
who's
responsible
and
all
of
that,
because
in
the
end,
if
you
don't,
you
know,
you
need
to
know
whether
they're
you
know
are
they
kind
of
avoiding
paying
council
tax
because
they're
just
saying
it's
student
accommodation
or
are
they
just
saying?
Oh,
you
were
student.
Therefore
you
don't
have
to
pay.
Is
that
how
it
works?
P
L
It's
not
based
on
the
accommodation,
and
even
if
there
was
one
say
there
was
a
HMO
that
had
one
individual
that
wasn't
the
student,
then
the
house
would
be
liable
for
council
tax,
even
if
you
can
possibly
manage
to
get
a
single
person
discount
within
it.
So
it
is
about
the
the
individuals
within
the
property
and
they
all
have
to
be
now
again.
The
reason.
L
O
Other
problem,
of
course,
is
that
the
relatively
recent-
it's
not
you,
know
an
immediate
change,
but
the
government
changing
permitted
development
to
mean
that
you
can
change
office
into
residential
without
planning
permission.
And
so
again
you
can
see
quite
a
lot
of
office
space
that
is
going
to
student
housing
and
there
is
very
little
control
that
the
planning
authority
has
over
that.
Q
Is
that
just
do
a
couple
of
introductions
to
colleagues
and
then
I'll
just
say
a
little
bit
around
the
importance
of
scrutiny
and
the
local
authority's
role
and
safeguarding
boards
and
then
I'm
gonna
hand
over
to
the
chairs?
And
it's
very
much
their
item
tonight
for
your
scrutiny
and
we've
got
a
few
slides
to
build
on
the
repeal.
So
kinda
introductions
and
Louise.
Q
Q
So
thank
you
for
that
and
then,
secondly,
just
to
sort
of
explain
a
bit
from
a
local
authority's
perspective
of
the
statutory
responsibilities
on
the
local
authority
to
establish
multi-agency,
safeguarding
boards.
So
for
the
children
that
comes
from
the
Children
Act
of
2004
and
for
adults
more
recently,
the
Care
Act
of
2014
and
as
it
currently
stands,
the
legislation
requires
the
local
authority
to
establish
and
ensure
that
there
are
multi-agency
safeguarding
Arrangements
in
place.
Q
So
it's
not
that
we
run
everything,
but
it's
still
our
statutory
responsibility
to
ensure
that
you've
got
that
level
of
assurance
across
the
city.
And
it's
also
part
of
the
legislation
which
says
you
had
need
to
have
an
independent
and
chair,
which
I
personally
have
always
been
fully
supportive
of
in
the
sense
because
you
get
that
level
of
Independence,
which
I
think
is
also
important
for
the
City
Council
and
its
role
so
I
think
Sally
you
joined
in
October,
14
I.
Think
you
joined
in
an
Ofsted
came
a
week
later,
as.
T
D
Q
Linked
and
Louise,
you
started
in
similar
time.
Wasn't
it
September
and
and
so
I'm
gonna
hand
over
I'm
happy
to
take
any
questions,
but
I
think
the
important
thing
is
this
is
actually
for
Louise
and
Sally,
and
your
questions
to
them
around
multi-agency.
Safeguarding
and
a
large
part
of
your
role
actually
is
scrutiny
as
well.
Isn't
it
you're
our
scrutiny
with
scrutinizing
the
city's
Arrangements
around
safeguarding.
S
We're
going
to
go
fairly
quickly
through
our
slides,
because
actually
I
think.
The
important
thing
is
that
you
have
an
opportunity
to
ask
us
questions
and
we
can
engage
you
on
those
parts
that
you're
most
interested
in,
but
really
just
to
get
everybody
up
to
speed.
It's
important
things
that
have
happened
for
both
boards
and
I.
S
Think
one
of
the
things
that
Bristol
has
been
really
good
at
is
ensuring
that
we're
adults
and
children
where
there
are
joint
issues
that
we're
working
in
a
seamless
way
and
I'll
just
give
her
the
indication
of
why
I
think
and
I
know.
Louise
agrees
that
this
is
really
very
important
throughout
the
three
years
that
we've
both
been
in
roll
we've
really
built
up
an
important
shared
business
unit
between
the
two
boards.
I
have
a
sighting
on
what's
happening
nationally,
I
think
the
Bristol
joint
business
unit.
S
It's
quite
a
lean
one,
compared
to
a
lot
of
major
cities
in
other
areas
in
terms
of
its
size.
But
it's
very
well
constructed
exactly
what
we
want
and
we're
really
pleased
with
the
individuals
that
we
have
in
posts
to
undertake
that
so
a
small
independent
unit
of
people
serving
the
partnership
which
is
safeguarding
in
that
way
and
in
fact
the
very
first
scrutiny
I
ever
came
to
I,
was
particularly
saying
to
those
of
you
there
and
your
colleagues.
We
really
need
a
data
analyst
because
you
were.
S
You
were
talking
to
me
about
the
data
we
were
using
and
we
got
a
real
support
from
the
local
authority
in
doing
that.
So
we're
really
grateful
from
the
outset,
some
of
you
and
think
many
of
you
will
have
heard
that
think
family
approach
so
that
we
always
deal
with
individuals,
whether
that's
a
vulnerable
adult
or
a
child
who
might
be
in
need
of
protection
or
other
services
that
we
always
think
in
that
family
model.
We
don't
pick
out
somebody
and
treat
them
in
isolation.
S
People
don't
have
their
issues
and
problems
and
lives
in
isolation,
so
dealing
with
them
to
collectively.
In
that
whole
family
approach
and
one
of
the
really
important
developments
we've
had
together
between
adults
and
children,
is
the
development
and
launch
of
all
the
perinatal
mental
health
work.
The
poor
guidance
that
probably
the
thing
that
both
boards
I'm
most
well
known
for,
is
undertaking
serious
case
reviews
in
in
the
case
of
children
and
adult
reviews
in
case
that
wasn't
their
review
to
get
published.
Get
that
publicly.
Sometimes
you
know
a
lot
of
national
publicity.
S
S
So
the
fact
you
know
what
we'll
want
to
know
that
children's
safeguarding
and
adult
safeguarding
is
as
joined
up
as
possible,
so
that
that
transition
is
as
as
well-managed
as
as
possible,
and
we've
heard
I
won't
go
on
on,
but
we've
had
lots
of
other
common
areas
where
we've
developed
approaches
to
safeguarding
and
the
examples
given.
There
are
working
with
faith
organizations
and
the
issue
of
of
responding
to
professionals
of
concern.
S
We're
professionals
working
with
vulnerable
adults
or
children
or
young
people
present
concerns,
and
you
have
to
respond
in
a
very
sensitive
but
effective
way
to
that
one
more
thing
before
I
hand
over
to
Louise.
This
has
been
a
really
good
achievement.
I
think
we
have
now
got
our
own
independent
website.
This
is
really
important
because
safeguarding
boards,
as
John's
just
explain
to
you,
whilst
the
local
authority
has
really
important
responsibilities
to
make
sure
that
we're
existence
to
a
good
standard.
S
They
are
an
independent
partnership
of
body,
though
it's
quite
right
that,
whereas
before
our
website,
material
was
on
the
Bristol
City
Council
website,
it
now
has
its
own
independent
website
and
that's
as
it
should
be,
we're
in
there
in
social
media
as
well.
So
you'll
see
us
on
Twitter
that
so
that
we're
communicating
in
that
way.
So
please
website
we
welcome
feedback
about
that.
But
it's
it's
probably
the
interests
way
for
you
to
look
at
what
we're
doing.
S
Virtually
all
statutory
agencies
involved
in
the
Karen
or
in
this
case
adults,
but
the
the
main
agents
say
who
main
funders
as
well
local
authority
from
both
boards.
More
than
any
other
organisation
police
are
a
very
large
funder.
Health
providers,
the
criminal
justice
provider
that
another
social
care
providers
in
any
way.
But
we
will
involve
our
boards.
Anybody
who
has
a
responsibility
and
can
contribute
to
the
strategic
approach
and
delivery
of
safeguarding
services.
R
R
The
Care
Act
gave
us
a
fantastic
platform
on
which
to
raise
the
profile
of
adult,
safeguarding
which
I
have
to
say,
has
always
been
kind
of
a
little
bit
further
down
the
ladder
than
children's
safeguarding
in
many
respects.
So
it
was
really
for
me.
It
was
a
huge
opportunity,
the
Care
Act
to
to
say
look.
This
is
adult
safeguarding
this
is
what
we
need
to
do.
These
are
our
challenges.
These
are
our
risks,
so
I
think
for
last
year.
R
Really
we
had
to
make
the
most
and
build
on
that
momentum
and
try
not
to
let
it
disperse
in
any
way
and
I
think
what
we
did.
We
concentrated
on
trying
to
ensure
that
our
messages
were
getting
out
to
professionals
that
they
knew
about
the
board
the
work
of
the
board
but,
as
importantly,
the
public,
the
people
of
Bristol,
that
they
knew
what
we
were
about
and
what
we
were
trying
to
achieve,
which
is
very
important
and
there's
some
examples
as
you'll
see
about
you
know.
R
We
feel
that
we
have
increased
the
awareness
across
professionals
within
the
workforce.
We
had
a
huge
event
last
week
for
adults
with
a
cross-section
of
independent
providers.
Statutory
providers
and
I
just
did
a
very
quick
straw
poll
on
hands
up
who
knows
about
the
board
and
I.
Think
Becky
was
there.
There
was
a
99%
knew
about
the
board
and
what
we
did,
which
was
you
know:
okay,
it's
not
scientific,
but
it
for
me.
It
was.
It
was
pleasing
to
see.
R
We've
also
had
communications
with
the
public
around
stop
adorn
Cebu,
and
this
is
a
national
week
of
campaigning
around
safeguarding
adults.
We've
undertaken
a
number.
We
develop
new
leaflets,
we
did
conference
a
conference
on
it
and
we
also
got
our
partners
to
partake
in
that
week.
I
did
a
radio
interview
and
again
it's
all
keeping
that
profile,
understanding
about
building
the
community
awareness
and
then,
as
it
says,
as
well.
R
Given
one
of
our
serious
case,
reviews
focused
around
Mental
Capacity
I
also
want
to
say
that
we
had
very
good
engagement
from
our
executive
members,
our
core
members
very
much
the
City
Council,
very
supportive
to
the
board
and
the
SI
CJ
and
the
police
so,
and
that
makes
a
huge
difference.
They
contributed
their
time
their
expertise,
and
that
was
greatly
received.
R
The
other
work
that
we've
the
the
challenges
that
we've
addressed
over
the
last
year.
Firstly,
we
developed
and
launched
our
first
early
intervention
strategy,
and
this
was
this
was
a
first
for
Bristol
in
terms
of
the
safeguarding
board
and
it's
about
prevention.
So
it's
about
preventing
neglect
and
abuse,
and
it's
very
much
aimed
at
empowering
the
community
so
empowering
people
to
recognize
where
abuse
or
neglect
could
take
place.
R
So
you
know
that
they
can
recognize
that
and
report
concerns
and
about
building
that
community
resilience.
So
that
was
a
first
for
us
and
we
were
pleased
to
see
that
done.
We
also
were
undertaking
over
those
12
months
to
serious
case
reviews
and
through
going
through
that
process,
we
learned
a
lot
about
our
processes,
but
that
was
really
helpful
in
building
and
preparing
for
a
safe,
Guardian
adult
review
process.
R
So
before
the
Care
Act,
there
were
serious
case
reviews
but
post
the
care
act,
this
their
safeguarding
adult
reviews
and
they
have
a
statutory
structure
around
them.
So,
although
the
the
reviews
that
were
published
in
this
year,
weren't
statutory,
the
process,
we
went
through,
really
helped
us
transfer
that
learning
into
what
we
call
the
SAR
process.
So
we
feel
that
we're
we're
much
better
equipped
now
to
undertake
any
future
safeguarding
adults
reviews.
We
also
developed
a
range
of
new
policies.
One
of
the
purpose
of
the
board
is
to
improve
safeguarding
practice
and
that
we
were.
R
We
were
keen
to
ensure
that
the
practitioners
have
all
the
practice
guidelines
that
that
they
require,
but
we
also
want
to
be
once
we
feel
we've
embedded
a
culture
of
challenge,
supportive
challenge,
so
that
where
we
feel
organizations
weren't
fulfilling
their
statutory
responsibilities
in
regard
to
adult
safeguarding,
then
we
had
some
examples
of
where
we
were
supportively
challenging
them.
Shall
we
say
in
in
in
making
the
points
that
we
felt
we
needed
to
so
and
it's
it's.
R
It's
a
clear
function
of
the
board
that,
as
a
board,
we
have
to
ensure
that
all
board
members
feel
that
they
can
challenge,
but
that
challenge
needs
to
be
done
in
a
particular
a
particular
way
and
that
that
was
quite
a
new
culture
for
adulterer
boards.
In
particular,
we
also
as
a
result
of
our
serious
case
reviews.
As
I
said,
we
published
some
self
neglect,
the
self
neglect
guidance
and
also
we
undertook
a
review
of
the
section
136
pathway,
which
relates
to
the
mental
health
pathway
that
came
from
one
of
our
series
case.
R
R
R
Think
that
the
we
need
to
have
a
going
forward,
we
need
to
have
a
much
stronger
audit
framework
multi-agency
audit,
it's
not
just
about
obviously
one
agency,
it's
very
much
multi-agency
and
that's
something
that
we're
having
in
train
at
the
moment
and
what
feeds
into
that
as
well,
is
around
a
data
gap
around
the
effectiveness
of
mental
health
pathways
and
that's
what
was
on
about
earlier
in
terms
of
the
section
136
pathway.
Through
our
serious
case
reviews,
we've
identified
a
key
theme
of
some
failings
around
mental
health
in
Bristol
and
I.
R
Think
that
we
have
gone
through
our
governance
processes
and
identified
where
those
gaps
are
we've
shaved,
shared
them
with
the
relevant
agencies
and
the
relevant
commissioning
bodies.
So
I
think
that
we're
fulfilling
our
responsibilities
and
we're
waiting
to
hear
back
on
on
those
bodies,
responses
really
we're
also
in
the
process
of
developing
large-scale
and
organizational
abuse
processes.
R
We
also,
as
I
said
earlier,
we've
published
our
prevention
and
early
intervention
strategy.
What
we
now
need
to
do
is
identify
the
gaps.
You
know
the
board's
work
is
not
about
replicating.
What's
already
out
there,
it's
about
identifying
gaps
and
ensuring
that
those
gaps
are
filled
and
the
early
intervention
and
prevention
strategy.
Clearly
there's
huge
amounts
of
work
being
done
out
there
by
a
range
of
agencies,
public
health,
etc.
R
So
we
need
to
work
closely
with
those
agencies
to
identify
the
gaps,
but
that
also
links
into
a
national
priority
in
adult
safeguarding
and
that's
a
model
called
making
safeguarding
personal
and
that's
about
putting
the
person
at
the
center
of
safeguarding
processes.
One
of
the
things
that
people
often
say
when
they
have
experience
safeguarding
is
that,
though
the
process
was
done
to
them
not
done
with
them.
R
Think
we're
all
we're
here
within
our
salaries.
Certainly
aware
in
John
is
that
adult
safeguarding
is
receives
far
less
funding
than
children's
safeguarding
and
I
think
that,
while
we've
secured
a
three-year
resource
agreement
with
our
core
partners,
that
is
nearly
up.
So
we
have
to
begin
to
think
about
future
resources.
We
only
receive
read:
adults
only
receive
finances
from
the
three
core
partners.
We
don't
receive
it
from
anybody
else.
R
R
We
also
need
to
ensure
that
the
well-being
of
the
community-
we
have
a
role
around
the
well-being,
and
we
certainly
need
to
be
aware
of
where
there
are
huge
organisational
restructures
going
on
and
reduction
in
services.
I
think
the
board
has
a
responsibility.
As
a
know
for
an
oversight
on
that
in
terms
of
people's
safety,
so
where
services
are
being
cut
well,
what
what
impact
does
that
have
on
the
safety
of
people
who
use
the
services?
R
So
that's
something
we
all
need
to
be
mindful
of
obviously
in
these
in
these
times
and
I,
think
that,
as
I
said
earlier,
it's
also
about
ensuring
that
safeguarding
adults
that
the
focus
and
the
the
priority
remains,
and
that's
a
huge
challenge
for
us
in
these
very
difficult
times,
particularly
times
conflicting
priorities,
reducing
resources
and
growing
risks.
So
thank
you.
S
Q
A
J
K
Interesting
and
very
helpful
to
a
lot
of
work
that
we
do.
You
know
the
work
that
you
do
so.
Thank
you
very
much
you
you
did
mention
some
of
the
trends
you
referred
to:
modern
slavery
and
sexual
exploitation.
Can
you
tell
us?
Are
there
any
particular
concerns
you
have
of
problems
that
are
growing
in
Bristol
that
we
ought
to
be?
You
know
more
aware
of
in
the
work
we
do.
Yeah.
R
I
think
that
the
adult
sexual
exploitation
is
something
I
think
you
know,
there's
there's
I
know
Sally
and
John.
They've
lived
the
children's
sexual
exploitation
issues
and
everybody
knows
that
children
grow
into
adults,
and
you
know
that
people's
vulnerabilities
there
are
particular
vulnerabilities
around
adults
who
have
been
abused
as
children,
so
I
think
we
have
to
be
mindful
of
that.
R
I
think
the
other
issue
that
came
to
the
board
recently
as
well
is
modern
slavery
in
terms
of
the
growing
awareness
of
people
being
used
inappropriately
trafficking
into
large
cities
and
worked,
you
know
with
very
little
recompense
really.
So
to
me.
Those
are
the
two
along
I
think
again
issue
that
was
raised,
but
the
board
was
homelessness
and
the
vulnerabilities
of
people
on
the
street
I'm
sure
we
don't
have
to
talk
about
that.
People
know
about
that.
R
But
again
you
know
that
is
the
safeguarding
issue,
particularly
where
homelessness
have
you
know
the
higher
proportion
of
people
with
mental
health
issues
etc.
So
I
think
those
would
be
the
risk
to
me
that
we
need,
as
I
say,
I
call
them
emerging
risks.
That
I
think
we
need
to
keep
our
eyes
on
and
ensure
that
the
board
is
sited
on
them
appropriately.
E
R
Don't
want
to
think
it's
all
about
money.
It
is
about
how
we
can
work
more
efficiently
as
a
board
as
well.
So
you
know
we
want
to
work
closely
with
the
children's
board
and
with
all
of
the
partnerships,
to
ensure
that
there's
no
duplication
in
our
work
and
that
we
are
all
working
together
as
efficiently
as
we
can.
O
O
One
of
them
is
I
think
that
the
board
had
commissioned
or
had
asked
the
university
to
come
and
report
them,
and
that
was
the
first
meeting
that
I
happen
to
go
to
after
I
was
became
the
member
for
adult
social
care
on
suicides
because
obviously
there'd
been
a
large
number
of
suicides
in
Bristol,
University
and
I
thought
that
for
me
it
did
two
things.
One
was
to
to
see
the
breadth
of
the
work
that
they
done
around
addressing
their
own
problem,
but
also
that
I
think
it
said
something
about
the
status
of
the
board.
O
O
Think
one
of
Louise's
slides
referred
referred
to
this,
but
this
grading
of
levels
of
hoarding
and
as
somebody
who
isn't
you
know
a
professional
in
this
in
this
field,
I
just
think
they
joined
up
thinking
around
that
that
both
our
own,
you
know
our
housing
people
use
it.
The
fire
brigade
do
all
sorts
of
agencies,
use
it,
and
it's
so
simple,
but
so
so
effective
that
we
all
know
what
we're
talking
about.
When
we
talk
about
level
one
hoarding.
O
It
is
a
really
say
it
is
a
real
safeguarding
issue
and
I
think
that
the
cross
cross,
multi-agency
and
cross-sectoral
approach
to
that
was
for
me
one
of
those
really.
You
know
interesting
things
that
it
isn't
about
people
just
in
their
in
their
silos
working.
It
is
about
looking
at
it
across
the
piece.
So
just
you
know
that
kind
of
brings
some
of
the
sorts
of
stuff
yeah.
A
O
P
Just
you
talked
about
specifically
adult
sexual
exploitation
as
being
one
of
the
major
areas
and
I
was
just
curious
to
get
a
take
on
how
you
seize
your
relationship
with
the
police
in
terms
of
their
being,
perhaps
not
as
many
police
around
as
there
used
to
be,
and
whether
you
have
community
relate
links
with
community
policing
and
how
that's
being
affected
by
reductions
in
spending.
Yeah.
R
You
know
I'm
gonna
talk
very
personally
here,
I
think
and
our
experience
actually
at
the
board.
Obviously,
I'm
I
can
only
hear
anecdotally
from
and
of
operational
perspective,
but
at
the
board.
Over
the
year
of
the
the
report,
we've
had
excellent
support
from
the
police
at
an
appropriate
senior
level,
they've
bit
they're
engaged.
They
have
been
engaged
in
our
subgroups.
R
We
have
a
police
representative
who
chairs
a
subgroup,
so
I
think
that
the
over
the
12
months
of
the
report
we
have
had
excellent
support
and
contributions
from
the
police
again
they're,
an
organization
that
kind
of
goes
through
these
perpetual
change
and
I
think
what
we've
seen
more
recently
is
actually
a
change
in
personnel
and
with
it.
That
brings
some
risks
itself
in
terms
of
loss.
Of
perhaps
consistency
for
the
board
can
I
say
and,
to
a
certain
extent,
loss
of
expertise
as
well,
but
that's
something
as
a
board.
R
We
have
to
live
with
because
it
happens
in
all
organizations.
Doesn't
it
change?
So
that's
something
that
we
recognize
and
we
have
to
try
to
address,
as
as
as
it
comes
along
railay,
but
I
can
only
speak
personally
and
I.
You
know
for
the
12
months
of
the
report.
The
support
from
the
place
has
been
very
good.
Ok
can.
A
A
There
is
someone
who
has
a
mental
health
problem
for
whom,
clearly,
the
police
are
the
wrong
people
to
deal
with
it.
But
there
is
no
mechanism,
because
the
organization
doesn't
even
know
the
name
of
the
person
who's
causing
the
problem,
but
I
I'm,
just
mentioning
that
it
is
a
difficult
one
and
and
whether
whether
that
is
right
that
that
the
health
service
should
be
recommending
contact
the
police
in
that
situation.
O
O
You
might
remember
that
the
Avon
and
Somerset
Police
were
ridiculed
even
at
national
level,
about
their
fingernails
campaign,
but
when
we
talked
about
it
at
the
board-
and
you
know
various
right
when
paper
had
absolutely
made
a
front
page
story
of
how
ridiculous
this
was,
but
what
was
reported
back
to
us
was,
of
course,
that
actually
people
ringing
in
about
their
concerns
about
people
who
worked
in
nail
bars
had
shot
up
because
of
the
campaign
so
well
done
to
Avon
and
Somerset.
For
that
I
think.
A
A
S
Take
you
through
and
I'm
not
going
to
speak
to
every
point.
That's
on
these
slides,
so
please
you
treat
them
as
a
bit
of
an
aide
memoire.
You
know
for
having
read
it,
but
they
might
want
to
prompt
some
of
the
issues
that
when
you
read
the
report
that
you'd
want
to
question,
but
so
very
briefly
to
just
pick
up
on
a
number
of
our
strengths.
S
Probably
one
of
the
serious
case
reviews
you
will
have
been
a
most
conscious
of
was
operation
Brooke,
the
child,
sexual
exploitation,
the
the
group
of
victims
that
we
examined
very
carefully
that
serious
case
review,
I
thought
was,
you
know
incredibly
valuable
and
high-quality
and
act
if
I
just
emphasize
to
you.
That
was
the
first
ever
and
I
think
the
only
ever
serious
case
review
that
in
the
findings,
one
of
the
findings
was
wholly
positive
and
it
was
about
the
way
partners
worked
in
gold
command
together
and
actually
brought
to
light
a
lot
of
the
perpetrators.
S
F
S
It's
informed
things
a
lot
and
obviously
our
work
on
child
sexual
exploitation
is
developed
really
strongly
since
then
still
lots
to
do
I'm
not
trying
to
imply
where
it's
at
but
and
some
really
important
initiatives
like
operation
topaz,
which
you
know
you
know
please
look
at
operation.
Topaz
is
really
innovative
police
initiative
about
actually
focusing
because
a
lot
the
focus
goes
on
the
children
obviously
very
important.
But
when
you
focus
on
the
perpetrator,
you
know
a
child
usually
may
have
one
perpetrator,
maybe
more
maybe
a
number,
a
perpetrator
will
often
have
hundreds
of
children
victims.
S
S
Now
that
might
mean
everything
to
you
or
nothing,
but
there's
a
lot
of
publicity
at
the
moment
about
county
lines,
which
is
about
the
drug
supplies
coming
out
to
areas
like
well
everywhere
it
in
and
and
if
you
remember
what
operation
Brooke
and
the
way
that
the
drug
supply
chain
was
a
really
important
part.
I
can
tell
you,
go
back
to
read
every
group
child
sexual
exploitation,
review
and
you'll
see
drug
supplies
involved
in
it.
S
So
if
you're
looking
for
some
key
factors,
you
know
county
lines
is
something
really
to
for
both
adults
and
children
to
to
engage
with
and
knowledge
you'll
see.
Our
education
providers
have
been
doing
really
well,
but
there
really
wants
to
showcase
the
work
of
our
children.
We
have
a
shadow
board
made
up
of
children
and
young
people
hugely
affected.
We've
just
had
a
joint
targeted
area
inspection
with
all
these
inspectorate's
come
in
15
of
them
landed.
S
You
know
you
get
very
short
notice
and
one
of
the
things
that
it
is
about
neglect
and
one
of
the
things
that
the
Inspectorate
really
spoke
positively
about
is
that
Bristol
hears
the
voice
of
children.
So
if
you're
looking
it
up
the
joint
targeted
area,
inspection,
it
was
only
published
on
Monday
and
I-
was
so
really
proud
that
the
children's
voice
and
the
extent
to
which
our
services
listened
to
them
really
important
there
and
I
think
I'm,
giving
you
know
information,
you
don't
know
if
I
say
that
Bristol
remains
national
leader
on
female
genital
mutilation.
S
Again
not
something
to
be
complacent
about.
You
know
we're
really
leading
in
that
way,
but
but
still
working
hard
on
that
and
I've
already
mentioned
just
you
know
the
development
we've
made
in
working
well
between
children
and
adults.
So,
in
terms
of
a
number
of
the
challenges
that
have
been
addressed,
we've
obviously
got
missing.
Children
remains
a
major
issue,
not
just
around
child
sexual
exploitation.
See
a
child.
S
Sexual
exploitation
and
missing
is
as
you
as
you
know,
very
closely
linked,
but
once
children
are
going
missing,
you
know
that's
a
whole
catalogue
of
issues
there
and
you
know
the
more.
We
are
sharing
information
between
the
different
agencies,
including
education,
the
better
some
of
you
may
have
heard
of
mash.
It's
a
great
term.
Isn't
it
it's
a
national
term?
It's
not
what
we
came
up
with
locally,
but
it's
multi-agency
safeguarding
hub.
S
There's
a
number
of
kind
of
local
issues
that
we're
having
to
attend
and
deal
with
and
they're
listed
there
and
I
said
I'm.
Happy
to
talk
about
any
of
them
that
if
anybody
wants
me
to
do
that,
some
of
the
key
messages
we
know
that
we're
needing
to
increase
our
focus
on
identifying
abuse
and
neglect
and
as
I,
keep
saying
to
our
recent
inspection
joint
inspection
was
on.
Neglect
is
very
difficult.
It's
very
cumulative.
It's
not
like
a
single
incident
or
repeated
single
incidences.
S
So
it's
a
complex
and
cumulative
issue,
as
you
would
expect,
and
in
a
perverse
way
as
I'm
pleased
about
the
number
of
child
sexual
exploitation
in
cases
is
increasing.
That
is
exactly
what
you'd
expect
I
mean
we
would
love
for
there
to
be
non,
but
the
worst
thing
is
for
there
to
be
lots
in
there
hidden.
What
we
want
is
them
to
be
out
in
the
open,
but
then
we
have
to
do
something
about
it.
So
it's
not
always
a
bad
problem
in
many
ways
that
the
numbers
are
outstripping
the
resources.
S
It
means
we
were
actually
getting
a
lot
more
disclosures,
and
then
we
have
a
better
problem
than
a
hidden
problem
and
in
terms
of
I'm
going
to
the
last
point.
There
are
the
accessibility
of
services
for
adolescent
males,
a
lot
of
services
are
developed
and
a
lot
of
concern
is
around
younger
females
and
adolescents.
Themselves
can
often
get
left
out
and
adolescent
males
even
more
so
so
we
have
to
keep
pushing
things
back
to
ensure
that
all
groups
are
getting
attention.
S
The
main
thing
that
I
need
to
kind
of
draw
to
your
attention
as
far
as
their
children's
safeguarding
board
is
that
provision
in
the
Children's
Social
Work
Act
abolish
is
the
requirement
for
you
to
have
a
safeguarding
board.
What
it
will
introduce
is
a
requirement
to
have
safeguarding
arrangements
for
children
and
we're
us
currently.
The
primary
responsibility
for
ensuring
there's
a
safeguarding
board
rests
with
the
local
authority,
doesn't
mean
that
you
have
to
do
everything
just
means
you
have
to
make
sure
it's
there
and
it's
working.
Well
as
so.
S
One
local
authority
can't
be
in
more
than
one
arrangement,
but
you
could
have
a
number
of
local
authorities
in
one
arrangement,
so
it
gives
a
lot
more
flexibility.
The
requirement
to
have
a
safeguarding
board
is
abolished.
You
could
still
have
one.
You
could
not
have
one
it's
just.
You
have
to
come
up
with
arrangement.
I
just
want
to
emphasize
to
make
no
difference
for
your
statutory
requirements
for
an
adult
board.
You
still
have
a
status
required
for
that
up
all
different
legislation
altogether.
S
So
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
activity
looking
about
this
new
arrangement
and
how
the
legislation
will
impact
for
Bristol
and
surrounding
areas.
There
are
some
pieces
of
statutory
instrument
that
need
to
go
through
government
there's
a
little
bit
of
concern
timetable
wise
centrally,
because
you
won't
be
at
all
surprised
because
they
just
don't
know
how
much
parliamentary
time
it
will
get
with
all
the
brexit
issues
taking
place.
But
the
planned
timetable
without
me,
going
through
every
bit
of
detail,
is
that
you
will
have
the
new
arrangements
independently
audited
and
operational
by
july.
2019.
S
T
S
Was
a
national
review
undertaken,
it's
called
the
would
review.
Allen
wood
was
the
person
who
went
to
took
it
on
behalf
of
government
to
look
at
the
safeguarding
Arrangements
throughout
the
country.
At
the
moment
they
receive,
they
have
relieved
Ofsted
inspection
I
can
I
can
tell
you
more
than
half
in
the
country
are
good
or
outstanding
of
misses
of
the
board.
The
children's
safeguarding
boards,
but
it
was
just
felt
I-
think
it
was
felt
that
there
could
be
a
number
of
improvements.
S
I
think
you
know
that
the
would
review
goes
into
a
lot
of
detail
of
where
it
thinks
things
better.
It
really
is
just
freeing
up
arrangements.
I
mean
we
can
take
different
views
about
it.
It
might
be
a
response
because
at
the
moment,
the
requirements
of
what
you
have
to
do
a
set
out
in
guide.
That's
called
working
together
to
safeguard
children
working
together
document,
and
actually
that
does
require
a
certain
amount
of
energy
and
expenditure
and,
of
course,
the
freedoms
as
all
freedoms
allow
for
other
savings
to
be
made,
but
also
innovation
initiative.
S
You
know,
depending
on
which
end
you
would
come
as
to
what
the
motive
might
be,
but
to
build
in
those
freedoms.
I
think
is
what
government
will
say
as
to
why
they
wish
to
do
that
and
I
think.
An
important
thing
is
to
shift
the
responsibility
from
you
know
this
local
authority
kind
of
carrying
the
heavy
load
but
having
other
partners
who've
got
clear
responsibilities
within
it,
but
now
it's
tripartite
between
police,
local
authority
and
health,
and
it's
open
for
consultation
at
the
moment.
S
J
U
Thanks
Jonah
sorry,
I
missed
the
beginning.
Two
questions
really
the
the
start
of
your
paper.
You
refer
to
your
rollers,
being
coordination
and
effectiveness.
Understand
the
coordination
bit
and
you
explained
that
extremely
well.
But
how
do
you
measure
and
how
can
we
can
you
be
sure
of
your
effectiveness.
U
S
We've
got
a
number
of
we've
got
a
strong
subgroup
structure
and
you
know
at
the
core
of
that
is
our
performance
and
quality
subgroup,
which
brings
in
a
whole
range
of
information,
and
we
have
fairly
recently
a
data
analyst
in
the
team
as
well,
so
that
we
can
independently
look
at
partnership
information.
Now
we're
not
just
looking
at
information
churning
through
that
each
agency
should
be
looking
for
itself.
S
Are
we
seeing
the
things
we
were
expecting
so
we're
constantly
asking
the
so
what
question?
So
we've
got
this
data.
So
what
what's
it
telling
us
is
it?
Is
it
meaningful
in
any
way,
issues
like
we
deliver
training
and
we
deliver
partnership
training
so
that
different
workers
come
on
training
together
for
issues,
because
we
want
to
inculcate
as
well
that
working
together
approach.
We
will
follow
that
through
afterwards,
not
just
a
sheet
at
the
end.
Was
that
a
good
training
course?
S
So
we
use
a
number
of
different
facets
to
check,
but
but
in
the
end
each
agency
is
responsible
for
its
own
performance,
so
we
come
in
saying
yes,
but
how
are
they
performing
together
and
is
it
happening
well
and
our
policies?
It's
alright.
Having
policies
do
staff
know
about
them?
Do
they
use
them?
Are
they
are
they
user
friendly
and
we
can
get
feedback
in
that
way?
We
also
make
sure,
from
serious
case
reviews
which
have
a
lot
of
learning
involved
in
them,
that
we
go
out
to
staff
and
make
sure
they
know
about
them.
S
You
probably
won't
be
surprised
to
know
that
not
all
staff,
you
know,
nurses,
health,
is
everyone
else.
They
don't
read
every
serious
case
review.
They
often
see
it
in
the
paper
or
on
the
television,
and
we
try
to
make
sure
that
the
actual
real
learning,
not
the
you
know,
Points
West
version
of
the
learning,
not
that
I'm
trying
to
imply
there's
anything
wrong
with
points
west.
But
you
know
that
the
actual
what
was
said
in
there
get
gets
used
so
a
whole
host
of
things
and
then,
in
terms
of
my
role,
am
I
doing.
S
Am
I
acting
independently
and
then
I
challenging
and
scrutinizing
when
we
have
inspections
so
in
Ofsted
inspect,
and
also
when
we
had
the
joint
targeted
area
inspection,
they
will
ask
partners,
you
know
just
Sally
Lewis,
give
challenge,
give
me
examples
of
it
and
you
know:
do
you
get
away
with
not
attending
things
and
nothing
happens,
and
so
we
get
some
I
get
a
very
clear
sense
back
as
well
as
asking
myself
with
partners,
you
know
took
for
feedback,
but
I
get
an
independent
feedback
as
well.
So
it's
quite
it's
quite
a
firm
structured.
U
You
the
second
questions,
rather
rather
different
subject.
It
relates
to
prevention-
and
you
refer
to
in
your
summary,
about
pshe
and
relationship
training
and
the
importance
of
that
I'm
sure
you
aware
that
the
Youth
Council
has
today
Center
Leicester
to
just
in
greening,
which
has
been
signed
by
the
MPs
and
and
Marvin
Rees
as
well
about
the
importance
of
doing
that
comprehensively
without
dilution
and
as
quickly
as
possible.
S
I
talked
about
the
fact:
we
have
a
subgroup
structure
that
serves
the
board
they're
kind
of
the
engine.
Room
really
of
things
happening,
the
board's,
a
strategic
body,
and
we
do
have
a
really
effective
education
subgroup
that
brings
together
in
broadest
terms,
the
different
education
providers
and
PSHE
is
one
of
the
issues
they
look
out
there
so,
and
we
know
that
it's
one
thing
saying
that
a
program
is
happening
in
a
school.
S
It's
not
funny
when
an
adult
says
I,
don't
know
how
to
do
anything.
My
child
has
to
show
me
on
I
know:
everybody
says
it
and
I
say
it,
but
actually
the
reality
is.
You
know
that
that's
not
protecting
children
properly
and
we
have
to
I'm
not
trying
to
say
people
can't
make
jokes
and
things
like
that,
but
we
actually
have
to
get
people
involved
saying
you
know
they
are
very
vulnerable.
S
When
we
look
at
exploitation,
we
look
at
the
victim,
the
perpetrator
in
the
place,
and
everyone
keeps
thinking
of
place
as
a
physical
place
in
town
or
something
and,
of
course,
the
most
dangerous
place
and
go
back
to
you
know:
operation
brought
the
children
told
you
where
the
most
dangerous
place
was.
It
was
the
Internet,
that's
where
you
know
and
that's
I
think
in
terms
of
if
there
was
one
area
for
the
council
to
really
get
behind.
S
I'd
say
that
was
it
and
you
know
I
think
model
it,
and
then
you
push
it
out,
because
if
you
don't
know
it
yourself,
you
can't
persuade
others
to
do
it.
You
know
what
are
the
apps
children
are
using
because
they're
not
on
Facebook
it
not
really.
You
know
they're
on
Instagram,
there
are
not
a
whole
host
of
other
thing.
Some,
you
know
pretty
green
ones
as
well
and
I.
S
A
B
Really
quickly
so
the
how
what
should
scrutiny
look
like
in
a
tripartite
structure?
How
is
that
being
driven
the
change
at
the
moment
and
I'm,
particularly
where,
because
it
says
key
messages
for
people
scrutiny
Commission
on
the
top,
and
at
the
moment
we
don't
have
a
people,
scrutiny
Commission
meeting
in
the
in
Bristol,
so
in
like
a
sentence,
who's
driving
it
and
then
what
would
be
the
main
thing
that
can
make
that
happen?
Better?
Do
you
mean
the
new
arrangement.
S
Yes,
what
what
will
it
look
that
we're?
Looking
for
now?
It's
got
senior
leaders
all
engaged
now
from
the
three
agencies
that
have
to
cook.
They
have
to
come
up
with
a
new
arrangement,
they
have
to
agree,
and
they
will
I
mean.
There's
no
doubt
about
that
about
what
that
arrangement
will
be
before
the
arrangement
and
it
has
to
be
enacted.
It
then
has
to
have
an
independent
scrutiny.
Now,
at
the
moment,
the
Department
for
Education
who's,
leading
on
this.
S
They
said
they
haven't
said
well
that
independent
scrutiny
is,
and
it's
one
of
the
questions
in
the
consultation
they
put
out.
They
won't
move
I'm,
absolutely
certain
they
will.
That
will
stay
as
part
of
the
legislation,
but
it
has
to
have
that
scrutiny
and
one
of
the
questions
they're
asking
the
consultation
I
think
because
they
don't
know
no,
not
question
you
know.
Sometimes
you
know
what
you
want
to
do,
but
you
still
ask
the
question
think
this
is
one
where
they're
really
looking
for
ideas.
S
What
should
that
scrutiny
look
like,
so
we
will
see
because
the
legislation
will
come
out
with
a
requirement
of
what
the
independent
scrutineers
I
think
for
both,
if
that
independent
scrutiny
should
have
has
to
have
children
and
families
amongst
the
scrutineers,
if
we
don't
involve
children
and
families
amongst
the
scrutineers,
we've
lost
a
trick.
So.
A
If
I
can
just
interject
there,
because
I
know
dude
you're
you're
not
losing
any
opportunity
to
make
the
point
about
scrutiny
commissions,
but
I
will
judge
not
not
for
comment
really,
but
I'll
just
give
a
personal
view,
which
is
up
until
now.
This
has
gone
to
people's
scrutiny,
Commission
and
I.
As
someone
who
had
an
involved
with
threw
people
screaming
was
not
aware
of
the
incredible
work
that
is
going
on
and,
what's
being
done
so
I'm
just
flagging,
update
whatever
you
need
about
special
who
have
a
knowledge.
A
There
is
also
a
really
important
measure
that
scrutiny
happens
on
a
wider
base
with
those
who
are
not
as
well
versed
in
what
goes
on
in
safeguarding
because
I
I
find
this
a
really
quite
a
really
informative
exercise
on
a
lot
of
things
that
I
sort
of
knew
went
on,
but
didn't
have
a
need
to
be
briefed
on
and
I,
hear
this
and
realize
that
actually
I
think
all
70
members
have
a
need
to
be
briefed
on
so
just
keep.
Let's
keep
that
in
perspective
when
we're
talking
about
specialist
scrutiny,
Jill
well,.
K
You
know
but
I
think,
because
your
report
is
so
rich
in
data
and
it's
so
rich
in
the
children's
voice.
It's
been
extremely
helpful
to
the
work
with
that
we're
doing
in
those
in
both
those
groups.
So
we
have
a
small
subgroup
that
looks
at
health
for
looked
after
children
within
corporate
parenting
panel
and
you're.
The
children's
voice
section
in
your
review
has
absolutely
informed
the
work
that
we're
doing
that
and
in
that
group
on
mental
health
for
young
people.
K
S
That's
really
good
to
hear
any
final
link
it
with
colleagues
question
earlier
about.
You
know
what
can
counselors
do
and
I
one
of
the
examples
I
gave
was
modeling
the
right
behaviors.
You
know
when
I
talked
about
things
like
parents,
knowledge
about
children's
access
to
and
risk
I
mean
corporate
parents
as
much
as
you
know,
the
typical
parents
that
people
think
I
mean
when
I'm
talking
about
and
what
a
great
way
to
model
it
for
corporate
parenting
to
really
show
how
you
know
how
that's
done.
So.
That's
really
good
news
to
hear.
Q
A
You
John
I'm
Sally
Louise
can
I
just
thank
you
and
just
share
with
members
that
before
we
knew
the
weather
forecast
for
tonight,
Sally
and
Louise
were
given
the
opportunity
to
to
partake
by
by
audio-visual
and
electronic
means.
Given
the
comments
I
made
earlier
in
the
local
difficulties
we've
had
with
various
issues,
it
was
probably
a
good
job.
A
You
didn't
do
that,
but
I
think
it's
been
really
beneficial
having
you
here,
because
whilst
modern
technology
is
wonderful,
there's
no
doubt
that
they
actually
helped
to
able
to
hear
from
you
and
and
ask
questions
with
you
face
to
face
really
powerful.
So
so
thank
you.
Thank
you
both
for
your
time
and
particularly
for
making
the
effort
to
come
here
today.
Thank
you.
A
A
Deniz
and
all
your
team
I
cannot
just
apologize
for
keeping
you
or
on,
but
yeah
I
think
you
do
recognize.
We
had
it.
We
had
a
difficulty
of
wanting
to
hear
from
you
but
having
having
to
hear
from
visitors
who,
who
traveled
a
significant
distance
to
get
here.
So
my
profuse
apologies
for
that.
We
now
revert
to
item
9
on
the
agenda,
which
is
the
collection
fund,
surplus,
oblique
deficit.
A
J
You
chair
another
status
report.
We
have
to
calculate
the
estimated
council
tax
surplus
collection
of
phone
service
deficit
and
tell
our
preceptors
by
the
end
of
January
by
way
of
a
bit
of
background.
Basically,
when
we
set
the
budget
each
year,
the
budget
income
for
council
tax
and
business
rates-
that
is
the
figure
that
goes
in
the
accounts,
regardless
of
how
much
we
collect,
whether
it's
more
or
less
the
budget
stays
as
it
is.
J
That's
that
that's
the
funding
we've
got
any
surplus
or
deficit
goes
through
the
collection
fund
and
therefore
impacts
on
the
budget
in
the
following
financial
year.
Unless
there's
two
elements
to
the
collection
fund
surplus
deficit,
the
first
one
is
the
council
tax.
Now
we've
got
a
we're,
projecting
a
very,
very
small
deficit
on
council
tax,
a
deficit
of
37,000
pounds
now
very
much
we
collect
over
200
million
we've
got
we
like
to
think:
we've
got
pretty
close.
There
are
some.
J
There
are
some
fluctuations
there
and
there
are
those
fluctuations
that
we've
discussed
already:
the
students,
the
council
tax
reduction
scheme
and
the
increased
number
of
properties
coming
on
the
valuation
list.
So
there's
nothing
really
new.
For
me
to
tell
you
there,
we've
got
very,
very
close
and
who
knows
by
the
end
of
the
financial
year,
we
might
very
well
be
spot
on,
but
say
the
reasons
are
as
we've
as
we've
previously
discussed.
J
J
We
get
a
list
of
properties
of
apply
to
the
valuation
office
for
an
appeal,
but
we
have
no
knowledge
of
what
they
are
asking
for.
No
knowledge
of
what
that
reduction
and
rateable
value
is
likely
to
be
until
it
until
it
actually
hits
us
and
towards
the
very
end
of
the
previous
financial
year.
We
had
a
huge
appeal,
successful
appeal
by
a
local
power
station
which
had
the
effect
of
really
wiping
out
most
of
our
provision.
We
simply
could
not
have
estimated.
J
This
was
going
to
be
so
huge,
so
we
have
an
advisor
resolved
that
we
have
a
very
large
deficit
on
the
business
rates
side
of
the
collection
fund
and
that
will
impact
on
the
1819
budget.
So
we're
looking
we're
looking
at
about
thirteen
fourteen
million
pound
deficit
on
the
business
rate
site
of
the
collection
fund.
Now
the
it's
not
good
news,
but
because
it
happened
prior
to
one
hundred
percent
rates
retention.
The
government
will
pick
up
fifty
percent
of
that
deficit
and
the
huge
risk
lived.
J
J
So
you
know
the
advantage
is
that
we
get
we
benefit
from
the
growth
the
disadvantage
and
the
huge
risk
is,
is
the
volatility
of
Appeals
on
it's
a
slightly
plus
point
in
terms
of
the
the
mechanism
for
Appeals
has
changed
slightly
and
under
the
new
2017
list,
applicants
will
have
to
state
what
they
think
they're
rateable
value
should
be
reduced
to,
so
we
will
have
if
you
like,
a
worst
case
scenario
for
us
to
base
our
calculations
on.
So
it
will
take
out
some
of
the
uncertainty.
J
J
That
looms
on
the
horizon,
if
you
like,
is
NHS
trusts
applying
for
charitable
status.
This
is
a
national
thing,
we're
all
lobbying.
It's
huge
numbers,
Bristol
alone
we
would
we
would.
We
would
have
to
pay
out
if
these
appeals
was.
If
that
was
successful,
you
know
something
of
the
order
of
thirty
four
thirty
five
million
pounds
and
that
that's
affecting
authorities
nationwide.
A
I
just
start
with
with
a
point,
because
it
seems
to
me
that
the
the
current
year
figures
are
remarkably
close,
in
fact,
almost
so
close
that
it's
enough
to
make
the
average
account
relatively
suspicious
that
they
come
out
that
close.
So
so
that
seems
to
be
very
positive
given,
given
the
challenges
we've
had
in
past
years,.
C
A
A
J
We,
the
government,
haven't
given
us
any
real
indication
as
to
how
they
intend
to
deal
with
appeals
there
of
those
they've
they've
made
suggestions,
including
a
kind
of
central
pot.
What
they've
asked
every
local
authority
to
do
is
to
set
aside
each
year
four
point:
seven
percent
of
their
net
business
rates
into
an
appeals
provision.
J
I
More
recent
general
election,
there
was
some
consultations
about
how
appeals
will
be
dealt
with
going
forward.
That
now
hasn't
been
confirmed
in
terms
of
the
approach,
but
many
local
authorities,
including
ourselves,
are
taking
every
opportunity
to
make
representation
and
to
stress
how
important
it
is
an
issue
for
ourselves
going
forward.
So
we
have
done
as
part,
of
course,
cities,
and
we
also
have
done
as
part
of
the
West
of
England,
combined
Authority
as
well
sort
of
say
actually
as
part
of
this
rating
pool.
I
A
I
K
E
J
We'd
like
to
think
we
don't
have
another
port
and
we
don't
have
another
power
station
so
so
that
the
two
big
is,
but
that,
but
there
are
still
are
large
Appeals
in
the
pipe
and
that
the,
although
they
are
strictly
open,
appeal,
the
hospital
trust-
and
we
do
have
some
large
appeals
outside
of
that
by
by
by
hospitals
as
well
in
the
area.
Nothing
of
quite
that
magnitude.
But
there
are
still
some
quite
sizable
appeals
out
there.
A
B
N
I
mean
the
problem
with
the
with
the
the
last
valuation.
This
is
it.
It
got
extended
by
an
additional
two
years,
because
the
government
didn't
want
to
go
through
a
revaluation
before
the
last
election.
So
basically
any
reductions
went
back
seven
years
as
opposed
to
you
know
going
back
five
years.
The
nature
of
these
things
is
that
agents
don't
want
to
settle
these
appeals
early
because
they
get
a
commission
on
whatever
the
the
savings
will
be
so
vis,
seven
years
they
get
a
huge
weight.
N
Saving
the
issue
with
the
power
station
is
they've,
obviously
been
able
to
evidence
to
the
valuation
of
this.
The
operating
profits
are
such
that
the
value
was
was
grossly
too
high
and
they've
said
well.
Our
client
has
been
struggling
and
there's
you
know
the
the
actual
power
station
C
Bank
is,
you
know,
coming
towards
its
lifespan,
the
end
of
his
lifespan.
N
What
they
say
is
the
the
moment:
they've
got
tariffs
that
were
based
on
their
operating
model,
but
because
of
the
success
of
renewable
energy
places
like
that
they're
not
being
offered
that
you
know
with
the
Hinkley
they've
been
offered
a
large
amount
to
make
it
profitable.
That
there's
got
to
be
some
sort
of
power
stations,
whether
it
be
one
in
Bristol
or
not,
I,
don't
know,
but
they
basically
said
that
the
operating
conditions
of
power
stations
has
greatly
changed,
because
the
renewable
energy
has
become
a
lot
more
cheaper.
So
obviously
that's
the
that's.
The
issue.
B
Okay,
so,
but
I
suppose,
there's
a
there's,
an
underlying
risk
isn't
there
that
any
big
organization
or
business
will
seek
to
could
seek
to
kind
of
manipulate
or
manage
their
accounts
in
a
way.
That
means
that
that
they,
you
know,
especially
with
the
economy
going
through
difficult
times
or
what
we
expect
to
happen
in
the
next
few
years,
I
suppose
I'm,
just
musing
on
the
fantasy.
It's
going
to
make
it
really
difficult
to
get
business
rates
and
necessarily
I'm
a.
A
Job
I'm
guessing
dude.
The
answer
on
that
is
that
if
you
take
away
the
warehouses,
have
a
it's
a
fairly
standard,
rateable
value
or
a
formula
for
arriving
at
it.
My
guess,
whereas,
if
you're
talking
about
one-off
business,
where
there's
only
one
in
the
area,
then
who's
to
say
what
the
rateable
value
is
and
the
the
owner
decides
to
challenge
it
and
I
suspect,
that's
always
going
to
be
the
case
that
one
offs
are
going
to
be
much
harder
to
defend
and
argue
because
of
the
way
the
information
flows.
B
B
N
One
of
the
difficult
thing
with
the
appeal
situation:
the
government
tried
to
sort
of
make
it
more
understandable
by
saying
that
you
have
to
with
the
new
the
new
list.
They've
said
that
you
have
to
you,
know,
make
a
check
and
basically
put
the
information
you're
gonna
use
to
you
know
on
the
basis
of
what
your
appeal
is,
whereas
before
they
could
just
say,
we
think
it's
wrong
in
law
and
just
hold
on
and
hold
on
hold
on
and
not
really
give
the
information.
So
so
the
vo
I've
said
right.
N
So
all
that
information
they've
got
to
put
the
information
in
or
what
a
challenging
at
the
moment
we're
you
know
nearly
sort
of
eight
months
into
it.
Bristow
is
had
two
challenges
in
all
the
properties,
because
what
the
vo
didn't
realize
is
that
agents
aren't
gonna
want
to
appeal
and
now
because
they
get
very
little
money
for
them,
they're
waiting.
N
So
the
end
of
the
the
end
of
the
list
and
then
put
the
we
get
so
in
this
period
of
sorting
for
the
next
one
couple
of
years,
I
don't
think
we'll
get
a
lot
of
Appeals
coming
in
we've.
Still
got
the
outstanding
ones
for
two
thousand
and
in
2010,
which
also
you
going
through
a
process
and
Nash
nationally,
because
the
system
now
is
you
have
to
check.
Then.
If
you've
checked
it,
you
can
make
a
challenge,
and
if
you
can't
agree
with
a
valuation
you
can
name
it.
N
A
U
Why
is
it
that
so
far
into
the
year,
we
don't
know
how
many
students
there
are
in
Bristol
when
they
actually
book
their
accommodation,
be
it
halls
a
resident,
private,
rented
accommodation
or
HMOs
several
months
in
advance,
the
landlord's
have
their
information
and
the
universities
have
that
information
as
well?
Why
don't
they
give
it
to
us
and
why
can't
we
insist
on
it.
N
Why
don't
we
end
the
day?
We
are
reliant,
because
only
only
only
students,
if
we
can
verify
through
the
establishments
or
ones
that
we
will
grant
you
that
status
for
in
effect,
that
the
lists
from
the
University
Uwe
have
come
in
the
last
couple
of
weeks.
That
is
when
they
produce
them,
so
they
haven't
produced
them
before
that,
and
so
we
haven't
got
the
evidence
to
actually
to
do
that.
That's
why
we
have
to
make
an
estimates
of
its
fine
that
we
do.
N
The
return
for
the
counselor
tax
base
is
done
in
sort
of
in
October,
but
a
lot
of
the
old
students
have
moved
out
the
new
ones
haven't.
We
haven't
had
the
details
for
so
we
have
to
make
some
of
some
how
many
students
they'll
be
coming
in,
so
we
are
reliant
on
basically
as
soon
as
you
get
to
the
end
of
the
one
student
year,
those
student
courses
run
out
and
the
people
cease
to
be
students
that
period
in
between
there's
not
currently
student
status.
N
So
there
is
actually
a
liability
from
when
the
course
ends
and
the
the
new
people
go
in.
So
we
do
get
some
council
tax
from
that
period
in
time
unless
the
students
are
staying.
You
know
two
into
three
year
courses
to
stay
in
the
same
property.
So
that's
the
reason
it's.
We
can't
load
them
up
until
we
get
the
actual
verification
from
the
student
establishments.
N
U
Very
really,
my
questioning
wasn't
aimed
at
you.
It
was
aimed
at
I
using
a
bit
more
clout
as
a
rather
large
organization
to
make
sure
that
the
universities
and
the
landlord's
and
the
private
renters
and
all
the
rest
actually
did
the
right
thing
and
gave
us
the
information
rather
more
in
a
rather
more
timely
manner.
Can
we
not?
Can
we
not
do
that
I
mean
it
seems
to
me
that
we
can't
do
anything
with
regard
to
universities.
N
I
think
the
issue
is
because,
because
when
we
submit
this,
this
counterattacks
form
with
the
actual
situation
as
that
day
in
October,
the
the
D
CLG
acknowledge
that
we
will
not
have
all
that
student
information.
So
it's
not
just
a
thing
that
affects
Bristol
or
every
authorities
in
the
same
boat.
But
you
know
that's
that's
an
issue
that
we
can't
deal
with.
N
N
Personal,
it
makes
sense
to
me
that
if
you're
a
business
person
you're
an
agent
in
the
day
that
the
valuation
of
us
will
only
reduce
the
race,
if
they've
got
a
course,
so
it
if
they
can
show
that
they're
the
original
value
was
too
high
or
something
like
that.
So
that's
a
base
of
the
facts.
The
ratepayer
will
say:
they're,
okay,
in
fact
what
they
should
get
back
because
they
were
overcharged,
the
beginning,
all
I'm
saying.
Is
it
raped
an
agent?
A
Putting
it
a
slightly
different
way
is
the
agents
won't
necessarily
be
that
keen
on
marketing
their
service.
They
effectively
go
on
a
no-win.
No-Fee
operation
there's
a
little
point
in
the
marketing
it
at
the
moment,
because
they
would
get
very
little
out
of
it,
but
if
they
leave
it
for
a
year
or
two
until
there's
potentially
a
bigger
fee,
and
then
they
write
wonderful
letters
telling
people
how
much
money
they
can
save
them
and
people
sign
up
for
it,
then,
some
of
those
by
chance
they
will
win.
Now.
A
That
might
be
another
issue
to
be
lobbying
government
on
they're.
Actually,
the
period
of
time
people
have
to
appeal
should
be
because
this
is
all
of
this,
if
we're
being
expected
as
an
authority
to
operate
as
if
we
were
a
business.
No
other
business
can
have
someone
claiming
for
them
for
five
years
of
income,
so
so
I
think
that
whole
appeal
process
is
something
we
also
ought
to
be,
and
perhaps
call
cities
if,
if
they're
not
already,
might
might
be
raising
because
actually
the
Joe's
right.
A
P
It
isn't
it
isn't
the
whole
discussion
about
predictability
about
us,
knowing
what
we're
dealing
with
and
how
much
money
were.
Actually
you
know
we
can
rely
on
having
as
any
as
income,
and
this
is
the
thing
it's
not
it's
not
their
right
to
appeal.
That
would
be
in
question
it's
the
way.
This
is
being
gone
about
and
the
fact
that
we're
at
extreme
disadvantage,
because
we
don't
know
what
we're.
What
were
you
know,
what
we're
going
to
end
up
with
so
I.
Think.
L
Sorry
just
said:
that's
why
it's
really
important
that
we
have
a
very,
very
prudent
annual
provision
for
appeals,
which
we
can
then
you
slice,
because
even
though
it's
it
might
be
storing
up
over
a
number
of
years,
the
importance
is:
we've
got
that
annual
provision
going
through,
so
we're
actually
accounting
for
e4.
When
that,
when
that
can
happen,
Tom.
O
F
Just
want
to
kind
of
follow
up
from
what
you
were
saying:
hey,
Jeff
yeah.
It
might
be
right
that
there's
not
too
many
big
one
offs,
but
if
there's
many
many
small
appeals
underway,
which
I
know
there
are
from
my
area,
for
instance,
small
businesses,
then
that's
going
to
add
up
to
a
huge
number
in
the
end
and
as
we've
alluded
to
the
river,
there
is
a
backlog
from
the
previous
period.
So
that
kind
of
all
these
issues
around
the
the
risk
that
the
council's
are
exposed
to.
F
J
Well,
we
have
the
we
have
the
provision,
of
course,
and
that
provision
by
the
end
of
this
phone,
so
you
will
be
over
30
million
pounds.
So
that's
our
main,
mitigating
factor
if
you
like,
but
then,
as
we've
already
discussed,
there's
all
the
lobbying
and
everything
else,
but
but
it
but
really
is
trying
to
be
as
prudent
as
possible
and
and
put
away.
You
know
what
we
feel
is
required
at
each
each
year.
F
I
Think
I
just
wanted
to
answer
that.
So,
whilst
we're
speaking
about
the
collection
fund
and
the
appeals
element,
there
I
mean
my
own
view
is
that
there
are
three
strands
that
we
need
to
consider
when
we
are
thinking
about
the
projects.
One
is
the
collection
fund
and
the
appeals.
We
also
need
to
think
about
business
rates
volatility
and
the
risk
that
were
exposed
to
which
we
spoke
about
earlier,
as
well,
with
brexit,
just
being
one
element
of
that
and
they'll
throw
the
potential
for
business
rates
resets.
I
A
Thank
You
Teresa
right
I'm,
going
to
close
this
item
and
although
it's
not
a
report,
item
can
I
suggest
or
discussion
item
can
I
suggest
we
just
take
item
15,
which
is
the
budget
monitor
report
which
was
for
information
because
well,
we've
got
all
these
finance
officers
here.
I
will
just
check
that
members
have
no
questions
they
wish
to
make
on
that
information
item.
A
No,
that's
wonderful,
in
which
case
apart
from
deniz,
we
can
I
think
we
get
well.
You
can
go
as
well.
Denise
but-but-but-but-but
can
I.
Just
thank
the
rest
of
you
feel
for
your
time
really
appreciate
it
and
and
I
know
you're,
not
all
going
to
claim
all
the
credit
for
the
those
for
the
collection
fund
or
almost
balancing
in
year,
but
it
doesn't
half
give
a
feeling
of
confidence
when
you've
got
all
those
other
challenges
going
on.
So
so
that's
really
appreciated
that
were
we've
got
some
positive
information
there.
So.
U
Very
quick,
I
I
didn't
understand
what
that
the
figures
around
the
HRA
you
refer
to
the
HR
A's
revenue
account
of
being
under
spent
and
I.
There
were
two
figures:
seven
point,
seven
and
nine
point:
nine
million
as
I
recall
it
I
couldn't
for
the
life
of
me
understand
if
that
was
the
under
spend
on
the
capital,
because
in
fact
the
sentence
seemed
to
imply
it
was
they
under
spend
on
the
revenue.
Could
you
explain
explain
that?
Yes,.
L
Yes,
Jo,
so
the
way
the
housing
revenue
account
operates
is
that
primarily,
although
its
capital
expenditure,
a
huge
chunk
of
that,
is
funded
from
a
revenue
contribution,
so
7.9
million
pound
in
under
under
spending
capital
as
men's
an
in
year
under
spending
the
housing
revenue
account
of
7.9
million.
It's
because
that's
that
contribution
from
revenue
would
have
just
gone
into
reserves
into
the
HRA
reserve.
It's
a
fund
future
capital
expenditure
because
it
is
effectively
slippy,
so
it
will
fund
18,
19
and
beyond
capital
expenditure.
U
A
Thank
you.
So
we
know
a
real
challenge
on
the
minutes
where
we
now
go
to
item
11,
which
is
the
arena
position
paper,
which
is
page
195
in
your
packs,
and
I
responded
to
a
comment
from
Jude
this
morning
and
I'll
just
reiterate
that
for
members
this
wasn't
designed
to
be
giving
any
new
information
as
such.
A
What
I,
what
I
I
asked
for
and
what
the
leads
asked
for
was
a
statement
of
where
we
were
so
that
we
could
consider
what
questions
we
want
to
ask
and
where
we
would
want
to
move
with
this
for
the
way
ahead.
So
it
certainly
wasn't
designed
to
give
us
any
earth-shattering
information,
because
that
will
come
through
report
to
cabinet
and
through
the
cabinet
process,
but
I.
Think,
given
it's
an
issue
of
such
significance
to
residents
and
to
the
council,
we
need
to
work
out
the
appropriate
way
for
scrutiny
to
be
involved
in
that
process.
B
Know
so
I'm
not
going
to
take
too
long
because
it's
getting
late
and
and
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
think
it's
important
this
and
we
do
need
to
think
about
it.
It
feels
very
much
like
I'd
like
to
be
able
to
ask
the
interim
director
some
questions
when
we've
got
more
information
just
this
morning,
kind
of
reflecting
on
it
I
thought.
Well,
you
know
we're
reading
the
Bristol
Evening
Post
that
a
a
new
piece
of
works
being
commissioned
to
look
at
the
value.
B
You
know
what
difference
could
happen
and
I'm,
not
saying
that's
a
bad
thing,
but
I
suppose
I'm
quite
interested
in
looking
at
some
of
the
detail
about
you
know,
we've
got
a
task
and
finish
group
looking
at
commissioning.
It
says
that
KPMG
were
commissioned
to
do
this
piece
of
work
with
no
idea
how
much
we're
paying
them
or
whether
they're
doing
it
for
free.
And
what
do
you
think
we
know
the
answer?
Well,.
A
B
Let's
hope
we
are,
but
in
some
ways,
if
we
go
down
the
route
of
saying
whenever
somebody
walks
through
to
do
it,
says
they'll,
do
it
for
free,
we'll,
let
them
how
we
getting
an
unbiased.
You
know
look
at
what's
going
on.
Well,
how
are
we
responding
to
our
commitment
to
social
value
in
contracts?
You
know:
did
we
even
in
other
areas
of
the
couses
business,
we
would
have
to
go,
for
you
know
three
tenders
and
look
at
what
we're
doing
so.
I
I
That
was
napal
thinking,
May,
we
went
out
to
the
market
and
there
was
a
specification
issued
in
the
tender
process
of
which
KPMG
were
the
successful
bidders
and
for
that
piece
of
work,
that's
the
work,
that's
now
underway
and
about
to
conclude.
That
will
still
be
the
case,
so
the
will
still
be
an
independent
objective
value
for
money
assessment
that
we'll
be
looking
at
the
economic
case,
the
financial
case
and
the
social
return
on
investment
of
the
current
arena
island
project.
I
On
the
other
projects
on
the
arena
Island
site
now
that's
been
expanded
marginally
to
cover
some
other
elements
has
referred
to
in
the
in
the
mayor's
press
release,
and
that
report
we
agreed
at
the
time
would
be
a
public
report
and
will
form
part
of
the
Cabinet
decision
or
the
cabinet
paper
in
January.
So
do.
B
I
I
A
I
I
I
B
A
A
B
Not
saying
it's
about
considering
in
a
way
what
I'm
saying
is
often,
we
know
that
in
big
institutions,
things
happen
where
oh,
you
can't
do
that,
and
things
like
because
of
health
and
safety
when
in
fact
is
not
really
the
reason
and
I
just
don't
want
us
to
get
into
a
culture
where
issues
of
commercial
sensitivity
is
kind
of
used
as
an
easy
escape
route
for.
Oh,
you
don't
need
to
know
that
whatever
and
I.
A
U
Also
I
also
ensure
Zia
will
know,
because
I
have
long
since
bitter
about
this
I
also
believe
it's
the
way
that
and
I
agree
with
you
Jeff
that
there
are
points
where
the
sensitivity
is
is
very
important,
particularly
protecting
third
parties,
not
so
sure
I.
Be
that
conscious
when
next
protect
us
from
the
council,
but
that's
a
slightly
different
size,
different
issue.
U
If
we
are
trying
to
protect
commercial
sensitivity,
then
it's
very
very
important
that
we
minimize
the
amount
of
that
reduction
or
concealment
and,
as
chazzy
will
know,
I
believe
very
strongly
that
we
should
not
put
that
in
the
middle
of
a
big
report
and
then
redact
the
whole
damn
report,
because
it's
got
some
sensitive
stuff
in
it.
We
put
things
in
a
way
that
the
minimum
amount
can
be
appendices
separate
or
whatever
that
we
can
actually
still
get
the
main
thrust
of.
U
What's
going
on
with
the
absolute
minimum
reduced
my
that
said,
and
that
was
a
sort
of
statement.
My
question
is
the
value
of
I'm,
aware
of
the
fact
that
there
was
a
feasibility
study
which
involved
a
secondary
site
a
long
time
ago.
I've
been
involved.
This
project,
for
a
long
time
so
I
didn't
know
that.
But
are
we
saying
that
this
value-for-money
exercise
also
re-evaluates
some
of
things
on
the
present
scheme,
or
is
it
simply
relating
to
an
alternative
delivery.
I
Value-For-Money
review
that
was
commissioned
was
focusing
on
the
arena
Island
on
the
arena
Island
site.
That
will
be
a
full,
comprehensive
review
when
we
commissioned
it.
It
was
clearly
stated
in
the
specification
document
that
it
was
commissioned
to
be
a
public
document
now
clearly
in
getting
the
depth
of
the
review
that
we
have
required.
I
But
the
proposition
is
that
this
will
be
mainly
a
public
reports
and
KPMG
will
take
a
view
along
with
the
stakeholders,
they've
engaged
with
and
part
of
undertaking,
this
assessment
or
whether
they
believe
there's
anything
that
they
believe
is
commercially
confidential
and
clearly,
as
we
indicated
councillor
golden
finish.
Well,
would
actually
have
a
look
and
assess
that
there
may
be
possibilities
to
review
any
commercially
sensitive
area
under
an
examination
you
know
to
get
that
granularity.
I
U
But
will
that
also
encompass
the
value
engineered,
a
reduced
figure
which
the
present
contractor
has
offered,
as
as
far
as
I
can
see
a
completely
kited
final?
Never
to
be
exceeded
figure,
in
which
case
are
we
saying
or
is
the
risk
is
the
fear
that
the
infrastructure
cost
around
the
actual
building,
because
the
contract
is
only
covering
the
building
is
audio
engineering?
Are
we
saying
that
that's
going
to
exceed
15
million,
which
we
provided
for
it.
I
U
I
Into
the
actual
financial
case
will
be
the
PCs
a
newly
completed
target
cost
the
development
which
will
include
the
value
engineering
as
well
proposed
on
that
site.
All
of
that
has
been
being
fed
into
the
financial
model
being
produced
by
KPMG
to
determine
whether
or
not
it
makes
you
know,
value
for
money
from
a
financial
case
perspective.
A
Can
I
just
on
a
couple
of
comments
you
made
answer
me
just
just
just
to
clarify
my
own
position
and
and
Deniz
and
Chelsea,
and
no
my
view,
but
my
opinion
is
that
we
should
always
be
disclosing
the
maximum
amount
of
information
and
I
will
express
that
view
to
cabinet
members
on
every
occasion.
Now,
of
course,
they
can
ignore
me
completely,
but
but
I
actually
believe
the
most
significant
and
serious
issue
is
the
more
important
it
is.
A
There
is
full
disclosure
and
I
certainly
I
mean
I
am
not
aware
of
any
incident
where
things
that
would
be
bad
news
have
been
concealed,
because
no
one
wants
to
share
that
bad
news
with
members
and
I
of
the
time
that
I've
been
looking
under
the
procedures
that
we
set
up.
That
has
not
I,
do
not
believe.
That's
been
the
case,
so
Salem.
A
I
said
in
the
time
I've
been
involved
with
these
procedures
defend
the
said
of
the
Portland
categorically
to
anybody,
but
I
was
not
involved
in
scrutiny.
I
was
involved
in
the
decision,
so
that's
a
very
different
set
of
circumstances,
but
since
the
protocol
was
established
for
ensuring
that
it
was
not
being
that
position
was
not
being
abused,
I
do
not
believe
there
is
one
situation
where
it
has
been:
I'm
gonna
take
Don
and
then
I'm
going
to
conclude
on
this
item.
Don.
T
V
So
at
the
moment
the
suggestion
is
that
the
11th
meeting
is
a
closed
meeting
with
the
M
TFP
task
and
finish
group.
What
we
have
got
and
I
will
circulate,
and
the
assurances
to
all
other
members
that
the
mayor
has
agreed,
rather
than
us
running
through
the
traditional
process
of
the
question
time
that
he
will
come
for
that
time
for
informal
discussion.
So
we
have
that
confirmed.
I'm
going
to
be
circulating
that
on.
V
With
the
11th
we
might
not
actually
be
having
a
formal
azam
meeting,
so
it
may
well
be
it
could
be
the
18th
or
the
22nd
we're
just
working
through
that
at
the
moment.
But
we
have
had
assurances
and
I
will
circulate
that
in
writing
from
the
mayor's
office
that
he
will
be
in
attendance
for
the
question
time,
and
it
will
be
a
discussion
time.
We're
just
bottoming
out
exactly
which
date,
which.
A
That's
entirely
appropriate
and
I
suspect
I
expect
that
we'll
be
welcomed
by
officers
as
well,
if
I
had
to
guess
I
think
that's
entirely
right
in
terms
in
terms
of
this
item,
we've
had
a
debate
around
the
item.
What
we
haven't
had
is
a
discussion
about
how
we
move
this
forward
and
we
have
the
choice.
We
can
either
say
right.
We
want
that
at
that
meeting,
to
have
a
look
at
that
report
or
a
meeting
to
have
a
look
at
that
report.
F
A
A
A
Right
so
item
13
task
and
finish
group
updates.
Now
we
have
a
couple
of
issues
specifically
before
we
go
on
to
those
details.
Is
that
as
I
mentioned,
Anna
is
Anna.
Keen
is
now
in
the
cabinet,
so
we
will
need
someone
to
take
responsibility
for
the
Children's
Centres
task
and
finish
group,
which
is
going
to
be
starting
work
now,
and
secondly,
we
have
a
a
vacancy
for
chair
of
the
council
assets
task
and
finish
group.
A
Now
what
I'm
going
to
suggest
is,
as
these
items
weren't
specifically
on
our
agenda
for
tonight,
I
am
going
to
suggest
that
if
any
member
here
is
interested
or
has
another
member
they'd
like
to
suggest
as
being
interested,
preferably
with
their
agreement-
that
if
you
could
let
Andrea
and
all
myself
know
by
the
14th
of
December,
because
I
understand,
there's
a
whips
meeting
on
the
15th
of
December,
and
this
is
one
of
those
appointments,
it's
sort
of
a
combination
of
Awesome
and
whips,
and
it
would
be
useful
to
do
it
that
way.
Tom.
F
L
A
U
A
J
A
U
All
wrong
on
a
general
note,
I,
think
all
of
the
tasks
and
finish
groups
are
probably
behind
the
curve.
That's
that's
my
view.
I
think
things
are
going
to
happen,
a
damn
sight,
faster,
they're
they're,
going
to
be
ready
to
deal
with.
So
that's
that
that's
a
general
point.
The
the
thing
that
Anna
take
up
Tom's
point
very
much.
The
thing
about
the
Youth
Council
I'm
very
concerned
about
is
they
are.
F
U
F
A
Thank
You
Anthony
we've
got
the
the
updates
from
the
chairs,
which
have
been
circulated
if
anyone's
got
anything
to
add.
Please
do
I
had
a
very
angry
in
terms
of
Parks,
because
that's
we've
got
a
meeting
coming
up
now
and,
and
is
that
going
to
with
the
concentration
and
try
and
work
out
some
suggestions
and
proposals
on
how
to
move
forward.
I
believe.
V
B
U
U
No,
that
is
just
I,
can
I
just
make
a
point,
but
just
picking
up
what
Jude
said
about
the
parts
group
I
think
it's
for
this
body
to
try
and
make
a
ruling
with
regard
to
the
governance
of
task
and
finish
groups.
We
are,
for
example,
apparently
not
allowed
to
invite
non
councils
to
this,
or
if
we
are
there
in
a
very
constrained
place,
I
would
I
would.
U
U
But
what
slightly
bothers
me
is
that
on
three
groups,
with
whom
I've
been
involved,
I've
been
told
that
we
do
not
take
minutes
and
in
fact,
in
one
case,
I
was
denied
even
seeing
the
notes
of
what
had
gone
on
in
the
meeting
now.
This
is
because
they
are
structured
in
a
particular
way,
but
if
they're
going
to
take
things
forward,
they
need
a
stronger
structure
than
that
and
I
think
at
the
moment.
The
task
and
finish
groups
are
sort
of
not
quite
formed.
U
A
We
are
reviewing
the
process.
Certainly
the
governance
in
the
moment
is
the
each
each
group
can
can
actually
choose
what
it
does
and
the
chair
is
there
to
guide
it
and
a
noh
stage.
Has
anyone
said
that
the
non
councilors
are
to
be
excluded?
And
if
anybody
asks
me
I
would
actually
say
they
were
positively
to
be
included
because
they
bring
a
different,
a
different
view
and
a
different
dynamic.
As
far
as
notes
of
meetings
are
concerned,
the
scrutiny
team
is
supporting
as
much
as
they
can.
These
things.
No
one
I
mean.
A
The
idea
was
that
some
of
this
will
remember
led
and
member
driven
as
well,
and
that
we
couldn't
necessarily
expect
the
support
a
full
time,
support
that
we
would
have
had
in
the
past,
but
we
would
make
sure
that
things
happened
and,
and
certainly
no
one
has
a
right
to
say
that
no
notes
can
be
issued.
So
I
don't
know
where
I
I
don't
want
to
go
into
the
detail
now.
But
I
will
happily
talk
with
you
afterwards,
because
I
I
want
to
bottom
that
act,
because
that
should
not
be
the
case.
A
I
think
one
of
the
issues
that
comes
out
of
this
is
members
have
been
very
used
to
the
scrutiny
process,
where
everything
has
happened
in
a
and
a
standard
way
that
the
whole
idea.
This
was
to
give
a
bit
of
freedom
for
things
to
develop
and
in
some
cases,
as
with
your
library
group,
things
will
move
and
unshaken
in
difficult
circumstances
to
come
up
with
a
proposal
in
others,
people
are
not
necessarily
quite
as
dynamic
in
making
things
happen.
A
B
Can
I
say
I
do
think
that
certainly
I
know
with
the
past
group,
because
I
was
screaming
this
early
yesterday.
I
think
so.
There's
a
move
to
move
the
notes
and
the
detail
on
to
mod
golf.
So
we
have
you
know
you
know
so
I
think
that's
possibly
just
being
a
bit
of
a
slowness
in
the
system
with
our
support
staff
having
to
do
lots
of
other
things
as
well
and
changes
every
everywhere
in
every
department
in
many
different
ways.
B
A
The
library
we've
never
stopped,
I
think
Anthony
I'm
right
in
saying
it
sort
of
it's
sort
of
hesitated
for
a
moment
because
it
had
made
a
contribution
was
waiting
to
see
what's
happened
and
the
current
proposal
is
that
it
reconvenes
to
work
out
what
part
it
can
play
in
shaping
them.
The
mutualization
alternative
agenda
moving
forward
is
that
I.
U
Think
we
were
all
surprised
what
happened
about
the
report
and
fact
that
there's
another
there's
a
different
form
of
continuation
and
as
a
result
of
that
I'm
getting
a
sort
of
an
update
tomorrow
and
I
felt.
It
was
right
and
that's
why
the
question
Joe
was.
It
was
a
question.
I
didn't
say
we
are
going
to
be
reconvening.
U
U
Possibly
make
this
a
little
bit
better.
We
can
certainly
feed
some
stuff
out
to
other
groups
out
there
and
in
the
city
that
might
want
to
know
what
they
were
allowed
to
know
and
we
might
be
the
people
that
can
tell
them
that
so
I
think
there's
some
advantages
but
I'm
governed
by
the
members
of
the
group.
If
they
don't
want
to
do
this,
then
we
won't
do
it.
U
U
I
think
that
might
be
the
fairest
way
of
putting
it
so
I
felt
it
was
necessary
to
go
to
Asha
and
I
felt
that,
depending
on
what
she
told
me,
then
I
thought
we
probably
ought
to
put
it
out
to
the
wider
group,
but
that
I
I
asked
how
the
group
felt
about
that.
You
know
it's
a
democratic
process
for
us
on
consume,
Thanks,
okay,.
A
Thank
You
Anthony
right
so
that
concludes
item
13
item
14
ways
of
working
I
raised
under
chairs
remarks
and
in
view
of
the
time,
unless
anybody
has
a
really
really
desperate
issue
to
raise
I
propose
moving
on
so
the
last
two
items
on
the
agenda
are
information
items
only
the
mayor's
four
would
plan,
which
was
the
one
issued
in
November,
and
the
next
plan
will
be
issued.
I
believe
we
said
tomorrow,
which
will
obviously
be
much
more
up
to
date.
I
did
notice
the
one
on
the
diary
didn't
know
that
we
were
issued.
A
A
We
haven't
got
any
other
business,
but
I
will
try.
I
will
and
item
17
on
the
agenda
is
an
information
item
which
is
pulling
together
of
all
the
dates
that
we
knew
were
shared
over
at
the
time.
This
paper
was
circulated
because
it
just
seemed
a
good
idea
that
everybody
was
aware
of
that
I'm
not
going
to
set
a
precedent,
but
I
will
take
Jude's
other
education.
B
In
the
spirit
of
I,
don't
know
it's
I
just
think
it
might
be
good
I
still
send
you
an
email,
but
while
I
was
at
the
conference
on
Wednesday,
whenever
it
was
with
the
LDA
people
all
there
and
everything,
it
did
remind
me
that
a
few
months
ago,
I
was
going
to
be
involved
in
some
LGA
peer
review
of
the
council,
and
it
was
cancelled
for
reasons
that
I
can't
quite
remember
and
I
did
say
to
you
in
an
email.
I
think.
B
Is
it
going
to
come
back
because
I
think
it
would
be
a
useful
thing
to
happen.
We
are
paying
to
be
members
of
the
LGA,
and
this
peer
review
process
is
supposed
to
be
useful
and
I.
Just
don't
know
whether
this
is
the
right
place
to
raise
it.
But
how
do
we
get
that
to
happen
again?
Here's
my
question.
Do.