Carroll County, MD Board of License Commissioners, 9 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: Board of License Commissioners February 9, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/board-of-license-commissioners-liquor-board/

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Of licensed commissioners of carroll county to order begin our meeting with the pledge.

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To the flag, followed by a moment of silence, remembering those who have gone before us.

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And made this country great as it is, and also uh at this time I would like to recognize the.

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Recent passing of a former member, mr bob taylor, the fact is strictly voluntary. Mr.

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For which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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At this time I would ask our attorney mr dickson, if we, if he will call our 10 o'clock.

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Case number 6372, please all right case: 6372, an application for new class b beer wine and.

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Liquor license to be issued to donna, bye, miller and kenneth m brewer for the use of restaurant.

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Retail and real estate llc trading as blaze, pizza, 265, baltimore, boulevard, westminster, maryland.

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21157 and election district 7. and to follow this matter, we have the following documents:.

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Notice, the public hearing dated january 28, 2022.

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January 26 2022 letter from the board of licensed commissioner.

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From ron carr revenue examiner 2 to the board of licensed commissioner.

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January 21, 2022 notice a public hearing for this case.

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There is a december 30th 2021 letter from andrew r gray, comprehensive planner to joe vance.

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There's a memo from belinda gazelle collections office with the box check.

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The above referenced establishment does meet the requirements of this office.

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Joe van sent a uh memo to various state and local agencies and she responded. There is a response to.

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Joe vance's request to various state and local agencies from lisa staley health department with.

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The box checked the above reference. Establishment does meet the requirements of this office.

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There is a december 22nd 2021 letter from joe vaz to mr ronald carr revenue, specialist.

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Then there is an application and the application includes character. References.

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Criminal background information driving records, menu.

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Platinum floor plans.

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Licensed establishments, workers, compensation certificates, sdat information.

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Articles of organization, corporate information and stock sheet.

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I would ask that the file be entered in the evidence.

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We'll accept that in the evidence this time I would ask all those who intend.

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To testify, in this case, please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by mrs vance.

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Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about.

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To give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing's up be seated.

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As those of you who testify, please pull those microphones in front of you.

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And before you testify or make any comments, please state your full name.

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And your address please and spell your last name for the record, please who will be presenting case.

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You can move that thing one way or the other, so.

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You don't you have to push button. My name is kenneth m brewer.

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My address is: 951, fell, f-e-l-l street.

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Suite 819 baltimore maryland 2123.

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Donna lee b miller, 388 hasselwood court westminster 21158.

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Thank you. Thank you. You may proceed to tell us what you plan to do and fly and so forth.

E

Okay, so um so I am the owner of blaze pizza. I have the right to blaze, pizza in maryland,.

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And what I would like to do and what my intentions are, is to serve single, serve bottles of beverages.

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Beer and wine for right now and then with the opportunity, should we decide to go beyond that.

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We would sell single-serve mixed drinks, but for our original intention, just providing a.

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A combination of alcoholic beverages for our guests when I originally opened a restaurant.

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I was debating whether we would do it or not, but by popular demand of the guests.

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We decided to do it and it's something that they want. I think the idea of having a established like.

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Establishment, like we have with uh pizza wine and beers, really blends well with the community. That's.

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Really, driven by uh some really great wineries and some really great deliveries here, so we just.

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Want to make sure that we are consistently providing services that the community wants.

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Do I hear you say you you have other franchises, I have other restaurants. This is not my first.

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Are they pizza? Yes, they are, do you have a liquor license with them.

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I do not and where are they located? I have one other one. That's in towson, 409 york, road.

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Right off the campus of university of towson said baltimore county, yes correct! So if you applied for.

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Liquor license in baltimore county. You have to purchase one correct and probably not available.

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Well, actually, the building itself does have a license attached, but um it's there's enough.

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Service of alcohol on campus already, and I didn't think that that the it wasn't a demand for for the.

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Students to have any additional access to it, so so it's on the campus of towson, it's on york, road.

E

Yeah, it's not on the campus, but if you I don't know if you're familiar, do you remember what green.

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Turtle used to be yes, so it's directly across the street from where now it's called backyard and.

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They sold out during pandemics, so it's directly across the street. I mean you walk across streets.

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You see our restaurant garage drives on it, so it's been operating for three years now. It's doing well.

E

Survive the pandemic get some good standing as well. Do you have any experience with.

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Sales of alcoholic beverages- yes, so my background is: I was an executive for walmart.

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And I retired 50 from walmart, so I've, except for here every other state that that I oversee.

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From the time I was a department manager to the time I was the general manager we sell.

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Beer, wine and liquor, of course, each state has different regulations about how you serve what.

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Time you sell when you open up on sunday, whether you gotta shut down on sunday or whatever noon, but.

E

For the most part, in six days, I've had, except for this, when I had actually.

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Beer, wine and alcohol physically on premises in the uh walmarts that I used to manage operating so.

E

I'm pretty familiar with, but then you walmart's, you didn't serve individual drinks. Did you no.

E

uh We started, no, it was, it was just uh they would pick it up and purchase it to go to go.

H

What states were those walmarts, so we have michigan, ohio, okay, atlanta um and then here.

E

So this is the only one that decouples them. You know, but you did say personally, you've never.

H

Held a liquor license no and you're. Not tips are damn certified then I am. You are good. Those are.

E

It should be in my file as well. Let me ask you a question where I I'm very familiar with the blaze.

H

Pizza and by the way the the food is delicious in there. Thank you um where, where are you planning on.

H

Setting up for this alcohol- because I know most of that is is- uh is a cooking area back there.

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Yes, so so you're familiar with my restaurant, yes, so if you see what that middle island is.

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If you're looking and it's where we would normally do online, we, I purchased a 36 by 60.

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Locking glass case okay and it will be locked back there. That's it's another 36 inches on that island.

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Available- and we are, we did that intentionally so if we ever wanted to to incorporate the airlines.

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You have the ability to do that: okay and then, if you're, looking directly at the uh the oven.

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To the right of the oven: well, our idea was have empty containers up there on display, so that.

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People can see so that you know it has a visual what's available underneath, but it will always be.

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Locked up, secured in an unlocking case and it'll have to be served by one person out of that case.

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Are you a hundred percent owner of the company itself? Yes,.

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Of the um I have a sub company that of course, vicki and I partnered in um prehistoric and so for.

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Anything outside of the the beer, wine and liquor 100 percent owner, but for the beer wine liquor.

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And anything spirits we're going to do together, so mrs b miller is going to be 10 on her. Yes, she.

E

Is she's on file on our entity and what did she pay for that? Ten percent? Three thousand dollars.

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That much three thousand three yeah.

A

You gotta be a little bit confused if I understand what you just said.

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You're going to be 100 owner of all food business so for the purpose of the.

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Franchise, I cannot subordinate the franchise, so what I can subordinate is the entity that.

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It operates so fire restaurant group, but I had to use a name of uh a blaze pizza for the purpose of.

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This for a trademark, but the real trade name is recognized by me- is five restaurants, she's.

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10 of that, I cannot subordinate any percent of a franchise period. That's just the way they operate.

E

So fry restaurant group can open 25 restaurant groups if we want to, but they might not be blazed.

E

It might not be, they could be burgerfish and anytime. There's anything in that group. She's.

E

With us she's with me, but I cannot give her 10 of blaze franchises. It's just legally, not possible.

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You are a um owner of restaurant retail and real estate. Llc, yes, 100, yes, okay and.

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Does this llc operate your other blaze, pizzas, yes, and how many do you have two and we're going to.

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Pick up two more okay and under is there some type of franchise agreement between the llc.

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And blaze, pizza, correct and that franchise agreement prevents uh another person to be.

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Part of the llc is that correct, correct, okay, so the llc is applying for this liquor license.

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And I guess what I'm confused is is: is the general lady applying.

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As a as a resident agent carroll county, yes for use of the llc, but she can't be a member.

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Of the llc she's a so if the restaurant retail real estate is the cup underneath that we have.

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Dbas doing business ads right like that and so she's part of the entity, of the dba that.

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Runs the restaurants, but not restaurant retail and real estate itself well, they're doing business as.

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Are any documents in your application that.

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Discuss the doing business as being distinct from the llc um just to entity agreement, but.

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Not distinct doesn't separate them and that's the agree. Okay, so there's an entity agreement.

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Between the llc and the pizza and the pizzeria- yes, okay and it's in the fire- it's in here, yes,.

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Now, what is fire restaurant group? That is the company that that runs all the restaurant part.

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Of restaurant retail real estate, so they- I guess it's kind of complicated, because when you have.

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A franchise I can own several franchises and each time I would open up a different franchise. I will.

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Open up a different subdivision under restaurant retail real estate to operate those restaurants.

E

So far, restaurant group operates all of the blaze pizzas in maryland. They are, and I think.

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That's what kind of got a little confused, because the city and the state sees us as fire. Restaurant.

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And then, when they got to joe, they said we all care, you guys say we all care about that. We see.

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You as blaze pisa, doing business with blaze pizza, so we went back and forth and they weren't even.

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Gonna give me my license and clearance to get the liquor license, because the way we see the entities.

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Different, that's when I called joe and then she's like no, this is for our purpose. We see u.s blaze.

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Pizza as how you do business, they see you as fire restaurant group and then they send her.

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Verification document that it was set up that way and that's just the way it's a separate way.

E

They view us okay, so I'm still struggling a little bit here. Yeah I will. I am too um just so. You know.

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Yeah, so this entity agreement- that is that's in the file fire restaurant group and it has a.

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I haven't read it, but it has factional owners as donna and kenneth correct.

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Okay and fire, the fire restaurant group is not a corporate entity. Is it no okay.

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And, under the terms of the entity agreement.

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So far, restaurant group is an entity. I I guess, you're legally a partnership then.

J

You're, not a sole proprietor, you're, a partnership. Maybe in this we would be a partner.

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In this situation, right in this situation, okay, but that partnership is only for alcohol sales.

E

Anything attached to the airline with any of the restaurant groups. So if we hope, if.

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We go get another beer license, then uh for towson she's on it with anything that has to.

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Do with spirits, but her profits will come from only alcohol sales. No pizzas, correct.

H

So what percent do you think you're going to be selling alcohol.

H

Out of blaze, pizza so of your total grow of your gross sales.

E

So I've asked around to try to get a great idea of what the penetration is going to be and they said.

E

Between six to eight percent, six, eight percent of your gross sales- you think, will be alcohol.

E

Let's steal a piece of restaurant at the end of the day, the other ones in the.

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Brand that have it that's, but you know to have alcohol. There's seven other blaze pieces that I've.

E

Reached out to- and it's pretty consistent with, that, it's not the higher corner. The business is.

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Convenient to the business, but it's not the driving, it's not it's, not our core business.

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um Mr mr brewer, the um entity agreement in the file is it is that just one page? Yes, okay,.

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So, what's next to it is the lease and that's not part of the entity agreement, the entity.

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Agreement is just this, I guess memorialization of your relationship correct, but it's not a.

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It's not it's not a partnership agreement, it's just basically, a description.

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Of who the fractional owners are.

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And the fact that it's related to a franchisee.

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Which is restaurant, retail and real estate llc, which is your your company correct?.

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I'm still a tad confused how how we work this into our scheme, but um I'll pass this off.

I

So, do you have a name for your partnership between you, two, you thought she's a buy a restaurant group.

E

She's, a piece of that interesting, I'm sorry, she's piece of what the fire restaurant group entities.

E

Okay, yeah, so that entity agreement is entitled fire, restaurant, correct.

I

So that's the entity um which um uh miss b mailer is a 10 member of.

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And you're a 90 member of and then that entity, and I think the closest thing I can call it is.

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A partnership really I mean I okay, although there's no partnership agreement, I'm not sure.

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Marilyn will require the partnership agreement, but uh this is this is for our person to say.

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That you're a partnership and uh what we know is the ownership interest of the partnership.

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uh We don't know how the partnership is terminated or when it begins, or.

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Or any and the things that we normally associate with a partnership agreement, we don't have that.

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And the partnership would only be involved in business related to the liquor license that you're.

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Applying for and actually maybe even the llc is not making the application.

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But the partnership, the fire restaurant group, they might be a real applicant- does.

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Is that am I right on that or wrong? I'm still trying to figure that out.

E

That would probably not necessarily apply in that theory, because.

E

We, I guess, to clean it up if you were trying to if we were to just take five restaurants and say.

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Forget it, it's not gonna, be an entity of this and separate it out and see. Is it llc independently.

E

Operating on its own, then that would be probably a cleaner way of determining that's true, as opposed.

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To attaching it to something I really can't give authority away to and coming before you saying hey.

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I, as an individual, do not have authority to to subordinate the into the agreement that I.

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Already have with blaze peace as a corporate right, so anything I do outside of them.

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I create my own entity for it so that we can actually assume.

E

uh It could be at least legitimate enough to enforce because it wouldn't be legitimate enough.

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To enforce, if I put under fire restaurant under restaurant retail real estate, because that is.

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um The agreement that I have with blaze not to support me, so it could get into a point where.

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I couldn't satisfy that and quote against them, so I'm trying to create something that we can satisfy.

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With ricky, you know to make sure I'm doing her right. You know to make sure that I can control.

E

This and cannot be um overturned or overruled by a pre-existing. um You know agreement, so so the.

H

Llc is going to apply for the liquor license and then you have a separate agreement with with ms.

H

B miller right that she'll get 10 of the alcohol sales. Is that what we're looking at correct? Okay,.

E

Which has been the way every other blaze has done it just so. You know.

E

So I just followed the prescription of what they did. I wrote it the same way pretty much down the.

E

Line but I know everywhere, the rules are different and I just want to be compliant. So maybe I can.

E

I know so maybe mr barnhart, we don't have to worry about their private agreement, but.

H

We're just looking at the llc would that be correct or not. I well. I think that the.

I

I'm not sure that's correct, because doesn't the uh resident agent have to have ownership interest.

I

Yes, yes and the llc is in the llc, so it's and it would have to be a five thousand dollar.

H

Instead or ten percent yeah um so.

I

Based on the restriction of the llc to have, as as mr burr says, a subordinate.

J

Member, I guess, of a franchisee.

I

That the f well uh perhaps the llc- is not the best applicant, uh because you uh I'm sorry you're.

J

Not a resident of carroll county right, I'm not no. What what county do you vote in? Do you have.

H

It's not carroll county right. I do not! So what county do you vote in baltimore, baltimore, county.

H

I think I I would happen to agree with you about the llc.

H

It's because it's very tricky I've. Never! I never have I've seen.

I

Quite quite this structure, maybe we should take a recess and talk to our attorney.

A

A few other questions before we do that.

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Let's be miller, I'm looking at your list of references here.

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How do you know pete samuels, family.

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Family I worked with pete from the beginning of maggie's when they have been baggies up.

F

Yes nicholas well, that's you know, that's how I'm tied to pete.

F

I know their father tossed too: oh toss, wonderful man, wonderful man, so yeah. So.

F

I worked at maggie's for many many years, so I'm very familiar with working around alcohol.

F

In a restaurant also, my uh daughter and son-in-law doing two restaurants in.

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Baltimore county times square kitchen and artful gourmet bistro. If you've ever heard.

F

Of either of those, um so I've worked with them since they started they're in the metro center.

A

How about ben yingling heart, love, ben.

F

And his dad his dad they're a wonderful family. I work for cal magazine now.

F

And that's how I met ken. I walked in to see about doing advertising for him and.

F

You know the thing is: when you deal in marketing, you meet a lot of people.

F

And you meet a lot of real people and you meet a lot of people who aren't real.

F

And you get a little attuned to picking out the difference between the two types of people.

F

And when I met ken, I was just so impressed by just the way he proceeds going forward, how he.

F

Wants to keep the community so involved with this, and that's something that we agree on. You know we.

F

Want to do a lot to get the community involved. um We have a lot of ideas for different things. To do.

F

And um just you know it's, we had a little boy come in yesterday and how would you think he.

F

Was seven or eight he came running in with his mother and he goes. I love this place. It was the.

F

Cutest thing so I said: can I do a video of him for account magazine, um so it's up and running.

I

The pizzeria yeah, oh yeah, you have to the pizza, is it's so good? It really is all it's all fresh and.

F

Just you know many different costs you can pick from and it's it's it's a wonderful place. So, mr.

I

Are you at this new store regularly? Yes, I'll, leave it at that yeah. It sounds like you're.

I

There a lot it's a fantastic restaurant yeah. It's it's perfectly placed I. um I know the developers.

E

That built it um their snr they're great they're, building the additional next door to it as well.

E

Owned by a good friend of mine, richard rottner, and it's just a fantastic place, we did every.

E

Treatment we can put in that unit it's a corning unit to make it really appealing to the community.

E

Yeah I went out and did some extra landscaping on the side where you see there's a patio.

E

To make sure that it reflected the the our our brand and what we wanted to be in the community.

E

We we hired 99 of our my team. I have 25 people that work in that building, they're all they're.

E

99 of them are from carroll, county and westminster, so you have 25 employees. Presently, yes, and I made.

E

Sure um that they, you know uh where most of all of them now are westminster, live in westminster.

K

It's just it's a great, I mean you really from a standpoint of uh going. You really should take a.

E

Look at and growing it just from the feel of it. I think it really represents the community well.

E

And we just you know we listen to the community. We've been open for eight seven months now: seven.

E

Eight months- and we just listened to the community like they walked in, they say they want this. We we.

E

Changed they wanted to. I have other businesses that I've done and westminster has been from.

E

A opening of a restaurant, the very best one I've ever opened from a restaurant, from a retail store.

E

That I had they're just it's a great community here, so if we can figure out how to give them what.

E

They want, then I'm gonna fight hard to get it yeah. So I'm a little curious about the request for.

I

A liquor license: okay, in addition, well, beer wine liquor. Normally, I I think of pizzerias.

I

And pizza, restaurants, as and like you mentioned, you know, beer and wine is certainly the. I guess.

I

The preferred of alcoholic beverage when you're at a pizza, restaurant, um I'm just a little.

I

I guess interested in mixed drinks, at a pizza, restaurant and and and how you think. That's.

I

Going to work for you uh there are, that adds another layer of management so to speak, and.

I

Care as opposed to just bottles and wines and plus expense. So so tell me more about why you would.

I

Want to move into serving mixed drinks so that now it's interesting I talked to keith about it. I have.

E

Originally, no intention at all of selling any mixed drinks period right right, yeah when I.

E

Reviewed the contract and I was dealing with all the other restaurants in blaze and then I.

E

Researched it, it was like 500 difference or 800 difference to add it. So I said, and then.

E

They were just like get it, and even if you don't use it, have it even if you're not going to serve.

E

It because if you start- and I guess it's where the other states are maybe different than we are here,.

E

They said, if you start with just a beer wine and then some for some reason, any reason you.

E

Want to have a liquor license, then it's you've got to start to process all over.

E

So it from a monetary standpoint, I just said: okay, if I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna get everything right.

E

Now but it's never been, nor hasn't been requested by any of my my guests that we serve miss drinks.

E

And it would not be my intent to sell them. Okay, so is that correct to add a liquid to.

I

A beer wine license they have to, incidentally, do it all over again or is it just an amendment.

B

It's not just an amendment. You got to have another hearing, yeah.

I

So a whole new application having that liquor portion of it brings you to a whole different.

H

Level of responsibility um you have to have a bartender, I mean it's, it's it's a lot. It's a.

H

Different entity, I understand, but let me ask this because in the and here's where for me to learn.

E

In the restaurants, we already have right that the company has that.

E

My other franchisees are consulted with and they have similar licenses structure. Similarly, they.

E

Don't have a bar in there, nor do they ever carry any actual liquor. If I have the ability to sell it.

E

I don't still have that um ability to not carry it, not sell it. Just because it's attached to your.

E

License is there a mandate that says I have to sell it and carry it and be set up to sell it.

H

If you have a beer whining liquor right, beer, wine and liquor, no, I don't think there's any mandate.

H

That that gaston has to do it, is it mr dixon? No, no, I think it just stays with the ratio between.

E

Alcohol and food sales- that's all correct right, so that's the so this is that was my research.

E

On it and that's consistent with all the other franchises that have the exact similar license.

E

I've toured them and they um they don't, there's no counter, I'm not putting I'm not putting a bar up.

E

In the restaurant, I'm not um going to for my the purposes, I'm not intending to sell mixed drinks.

E

That's not the interest, so the structure of license was strictly.

E

That financial piece just made more sense to have it not needed than ever needed, not have it.

A

You said you have one in towson: yes, no liquor license at all. None at all.

A

Are you associated with any pizza place that has a full liquor license.

E

I'm not associated with any personally so the other two or four, whatever you're talking about.

A

Having are they new franchises or are you going to buy another they're existing.

A

They're existing are they blaze, they are blazed and they have no alcohol license. No.

A

So out of four or five that you're going to be associated with this will be the only one that.

A

Would have a liquor license for now correct mrs b miller? Do you intend to spend any time.

A

As a resident agent in the operation of this establishment, absolutely you know I mean, as.

F

I started my you know information to give to you all about ken, and just I wouldn't do this.

F

For just anybody, but I know the quality of this man and just going there in the beginning, just.

F

To get pizza and becoming you know acquainted with all the people there and you know my.

F

Past history of working in restaurants and everything I've been able to you know be in.

F

And help him out with some things, and I look forward to being in there and just.

F

Being a part of it, you know, I don't think this is a question of fit and proper. I think it's.

H

A question of how um how it's presented um you have no interest in l in the llc. That's that's.

H

One of the issues isn't it, mr uh mr barnhart yeah, the um they're. Both applicants on the on the.

I

For the liquor license doing business under the llc and you're you're allowed, you know uh we.

I

Don't issue liquor licenses to businesses with the addition of the people and they.

I

uh For the use of the llc, um and which is how the application is framed right.

I

But in this case one of the applicants is is not part of llc that uh that this application.

I

Is for the use of so if you're, if you're 10 was actually 4, 10 of the llc it'd be no problem at all.

H

But that's not where what we're seeing how it's designed.

H

uh Or how you presented presented it to us, mr b miller, you would be the resident licensee.

A

You are totally and personally responsible for that license, yes, and any violations thereof.

A

You understand that I do.

A

And you still didn't answer my question: do you expect you can go in there and sit down.

A

And so on and so forth, do you do you inspect to be involved in the daily operation per se?.

F

Absolutely yes, and what will you, what will your responsibilities be.

F

Well, I'd like to greet people um explain to them about the diff for new people coming in. I think.

F

You can you can read it on a board, you know about all the different. You know crust that you can get.

F

But I find it much better if I can be there and as people come in, I greet them and you know I.

F

Say is this your first time in blaze? Yes, well, let me, you know, tell you a little bit about blaze and.

F

You know um and we're gonna have events, and I will be there to help plan all that and everything.

F

How many of you are very involved how many hours per week do you expect to spend there.

F

Probably 25., and what hours are you open without looking through here? We open at 11 o'clock to.

E

10 o'clock, monday through friday and uh monday through saturday, and then we monday through.

E

Saturday and 12 o'clock to 8 o'clock on sunday, what's saturday again like pull up microphone, talk.

E

Sorry daily we're 11 to uh 9 now 11 to 9 monday through saturday and it's sunday we have 12 to 8.

J

Now, without looking through this lease here, maybe commissioner barnhart.

I

Harmony has looked to it. Is there anything in that lease that refers? You your rent to sales.

E

um After a and I have to look at what I think is, after a certain um you reached a certain threshold.

E

You would pay a percent, I think it was 1.4 or 1.5 million less than 3.

G

It was lower than 3. yeah. The reason I asked that it can't be over 3.

A

Yeah well you're not eligible for a license. I would not have let it be.

E

Okay, can I say something sure so I wanna, because I would not I'm gonna just talk about [ __ ], a.

E

Little bit so this is actually how we met. So we I was sitting in a restaurant. There was no walls up.

E

And nothing up, and I think she probably saw me in my head down she walks up to me and she says.

E

Are you okay and it was just framed out? It was not even glass up yet she sat out with me for.

E

Vicki sat out with me, I would say the rest of the day and I was really contemplating. It was right in.

E

The heart of kobe, I paid cash for my restaurant, so I'm sitting there going. Am I even going to make it.

E

Through this openness, restaurant very difficult to get permitting and everything you guys know.

E

You know what it was like: no no fault of anyone. She sat down in that restaurant and encouraged me.

E

To keep going forward in a very difficult time for me, and I told her that day we gonna be partners. I.

E

Didn't even think about the liquor license. We talked about michael george, we talked about my.

E

Business partner, lamar jackson, we talked about everything, but we didn't know that I traveled.

F

With michael jordan for now yes, so we talked about that, and um so I really I don't give away.

E

Any percent of my business entity lightly to gain a fractional piece of business so.

E

As a business partner, she's been every day she's, she comes in there five times a week. She does.

E

Things in the restaurant, I have to tell her to stop working, and so I said at some point I gotta.

K

You know partner up with her in the right way, so I take our partnership seriously and so and.

E

In the spirit of how I wrote it was to make sure I could protect her, not protect me.

E

Protect the the consistency of the license and make sure that the as a whole that I can uphold.

E

It there's nothing that can the franchise can do to for me to not give it that ten.

E

Percent, even though it's structured and maybe a weight, if not as is technically the way you.

E

May want it, but for me to be able to get rid of ten percent, I'm giving it to it regardless.

I

So that raises a good question and uh thanks for uh to clarify a little bit.

I

So, in your mind, notwithstanding what is in the application you you envision, 10 of the restaurant.

I

Receipts or net receipts, whatever profits going to your partner. I would absolutely okay so and and.

I

But that's not in conformity with your franchisee agreement, but um there's nothing that you know of.

I

In your franchisee agreement that prevents you from even though she's not legally part of the.

I

Entity you can give away whoever you want. I guess exactly is that what you're saying yes.

F

I want you all to just come in and eat the pizza.

F

My family, my kids, are always saying: can we get police? Oh, we had it last night, I'm there.

F

All the time can we go someplace else to eat it. Really it's so good yeah. I haven't you're.

F

Going to put a full page ad in carol magazine, it's already there, he did all right twice twice.

E

Curious how many seats are in that restaurant, 53., okay,.

D

Can I ask one question just to clarify point you're outdoor seating or you want, do you want the.

D

Alcohol to be allowed to at your outdoor seating yeah- I don't want to prohibit it to being out.

E

There, okay yeah, because I don't know he's not here: it's an outdoor patio. He wants to have this. He.

H

Wants alcohol out there too? He wants to be part of the footprint correct. Okay, all right at this point.

H

I would recommend we adjourn for some legal uh advice. That's okay with you, mr chairman. A second.

H

Question I was going to ask if that was in a form of motion. That's american.

A

That we adjourn for legal advice is there any further discussion on the motion? No hearing, none.

A

We will adjourn for legal advice.

H

Okay, I make a motion that we go back.

A

Return to session any further discussion on the motion.

A

All of the favor signal five is saying I oppose no, so ordered the cause for the.

A

Disruption, we were.

A

Discussing legal advice in this manner, so we are now back in session.

I

uh Mr pereira, as maybe I can, I can help us, find uh a good path and we all agree.

I

That you're, an impressive gentleman man, you're impressive as well and and you're, certainly.

I

Qualified to hold liquor license uh in carroll county. There are some procedural questions and.

I

Some process questions that we're grappling with. um So a question I want to put to you is.

I

uh Blaze, pizza is a franchise uh business, you're a franchisee, and then you have a you at least.

I

I believe, and you have a franchise agreement with blaze pizza. It allows you to use the name.

I

And maybe the ingredients and maybe other things as part of the franchise- is that right.

I

Correct! Okay and that franchise agreement precludes um having a subordinate.

I

uh Member of the uh business, the store that you open up under under the franchise agreement.

I

That's right: correct! Does a franchise agreement preclude you from opening up a.

I

Pizza, restaurant and not have it for the use of the llc, which is now on your application.

I

Do they prohibit you from doing that? I guess is one way of saying: I cannot.

E

Own a piece of restaurant because it would be a it's a non-compete agreement in the fdd.

I

I'm sorry you can so the franchise disclosure agreement says. I cannot.

E

Own another pizza, restaurant right, so so it has to be for the use of.

I

Any pizza restaurant that you open up, because the non-compete has to be.

I

For the use of restaurant, retail and real estate, llc, correct and, and you know, for.

I

Any, for instance, your workers, comp insurance, does that have to have the llc uh on that and.

I

And the lease and things like that is that required by your franchise agreement.

E

um No that's where mostly often required by the landlord, but we also because we also include the.

E

Landlord and stuff like that, but we have some autonomy on on how we insure our businesses.

E

The only scope they go that that blaze gets into is the pizza. So for an example, we can't sell a.

E

Hamburger in there and cancel a bird and I can't go out and um open up, you know lay zones next.

E

Door because I have access to recipes and all the information on that yeah all right. So that's that.

I

Helps clarify your your restaurant has proprietary uh materials that they get from the franchise.

I

Correct corporation and and the front is the franchise corporation, the llc. That's on your.

I

Application, the uh restaurant, retail and real estate llc is that the franchising corporation? Yes.

I

I

Okay, so just to sum it up, you would be prevented from opening this uh pizzeria.

I

Without making it for the use of your franchise partner, who is the llc correct? The franchisor.

I

I

What a conflict a little bit of an obstacle in one path! We were thinking about.

I

uh Yes- and it was, I think, it's why they don't so they don't preclude us from.

E

Actually serving the the spirits, the alcohol and beer line, what their.

E

What their intention is is to never allow for a franchise e to flip ownership, because it happens.

E

And so what happened is they'll 10 here 15 there all of a sudden the person they franchise to.

E

Owns less than 50 of their own franchise yeah, they subordinated so much of it. Now that they're.

E

In a relationship, blaze is in a relationship with someone other than who went through certification.

E

Other than someone who they vetted out- and they don't know who they're doing business with anymore.

E

So they put these stringent barriers in there, put it that way and that's to protect them and.

E

It's not really, as in my for me, you know to to protect the franchise as a whole, so they can have.

E

A good understanding of who they're in business with, and we can't flip it.

I

And understand it: that's the premise of it in yeah contractual forms.

J

It's a good premise: it does make this a little challenging for us as a grappling, because we we.

I

Feel uh highly about your qualifications and and your restaurant. um Thank you.

I

So you're up are there any other blaze franchises in maryland that have bigger licenses. No, so I own.

E

All the rights to blaze, pieces of maryland and there's two here: oh that's right and that's.

E

Why they have to sell to me so we're in the process of that right now? So when I came, I just.

E

I didn't want any other blazes in the area. There were two operating here. It was three pratt street.

E

Lower only college park, I hadn't closed pratt street because I was going to do the acquisition.

E

Because it was underperforming and then so they closed that one now after we come out of pandemic.

E

They have to support, they either have to pay me to operate here, or they got to give me the restaurant.

E

So so those will come under our umbrella, but they will um one is on just uh right across.

E

From our college power uh the university of uh maryland- and uh they will they won't, I won't.

E

Be interested in any um beer, wagoner and one in laurel. I would not be interested in that.

E

So you have maryland rights to the blaze franchise there any blazes outside of maryland yeah. Oh yes,.

E

365 other ones, okay, you know they have liquor licenses, yes, that what I'm saying I'm reaching out.

E

To other franchise, I'm reaching out to those who already have liver licenses, not liquor beer and.

E

Wine, let me clear that up: okay, they're, all beer and wine- um I don't know of any others that have.

E

Except for two that have it attached to them, but they don't sell it, none of them. None of the blades.

E

Sell liquor by the way they also beer online, so any ones I talked to there's five in um in.

E

In florida owned by mrg group and they they have been online.

E

There's another group in louisville: they have been wine there's a couple in pasadena, which is our.

E

Headquarters they have blind yeah, you see what's interesting, is different states have different.

I

Regimes for the management of the sale of alcohol and manufacture of alcohol and maryland is a.

I

Little different than a lot of states and that's local jurisdictions, have maybe more.

I

Rules and regulations than a lot of states do where, where the government actually is the.

I

The owner of the distribution chain, what regard I want, we want to be compliant, so we want to.

E

Do what's right I'd, rather, even if it's not I'd, rather do what's right than to put myself or vicky.

E

At risk in any way, and so well, you have a great restaurant and it's doing well. Isn't it? Yes, yes,.

I

I don't know what anyone else's thoughts or maybe a continuation to allow you to maybe.

I

Discuss further with some other franchises, maybe outside of state, see if they have a.

I

Different agreement, or maybe if your franchise agreement can be more flexible somehow to allow.

I

To allow the arrangement that we're trying to and that you're trying to create well, we would.

I

Like to see you be very successful, and, and uh probably this beer wine license probably will.

I

Help you correct uh we're just we're dangling up the process of our rules are required in ownership.

I

Interest and then what does the foreign use of the llc mean legally and I think from.

I

Our conversation with you, it means that probably.

I

That for you to use the word blaze, they have to be involved in this application. That's what it sounds like.

I

I know I might be wrong, you know, maybe you can dig into it a little bit.

E

Yeah I'll find, I I don't think it's exactly the word blaze. It's the.

E

And I may be able to do it, I don't know for sure it would have to be some addendum.

E

To the restaurant retail real estate, llc's relationship with blaze, because right now.

E

They have a one-on-one relationship with, and I am me and restaurant retail real estate are the same.

E

Entity we are one person, so what I have to say now your relationship is with another person on.

E

The llc itself and then see how to navigate that piece. So is restaurant, retail and real estate.

I

Llc, are they their franchise or the franchisee? They are the franchisee. Okay, I'm sorry! I I I I.

I

Misspoke then blaze pizza is the franchisor okay and that's interstate.

I

That is in pasadena, but but they have franchises across state lines yeah. They.

I

Give them their they're they're. They they award the franchises push that way. Yeah yeah.

E

So it's a corporate business everybody's in lebron james, it's a big deal. You know everyone's got.

E

A blaze somewhere david robinson, every nfl player, has been attached themselves to this.

E

It's the fastest growing qsr in the history of qsr's, which is quick service. Restaurants.

E

It's the fastest one in history, including so so I think they were just trying to protect. I think I.

E

Can get with I'll reach out to lego and see with with vay's headquarters and say: hey here's, here's.

E

Where the challenges are- um and they probably never came across it they're six years old.

E

And they really grew fast and they probably never came across it because very well. If I.

E

Think through it every every place that has the beer online, they don't decouple beer and wine from.

E

Retail in their retail boxes either, so that's a distinguishable difference right there. You.

E

Can sell beer and wine in in a walmart, or you know like that so yeah and again maryland uh yeah is, is.

I

Very sectional, very jurisdictional, so it's going to from cross county lines you're going to find.

I

Different requirements and maybe uh the franchise work and recognize that and and you work something.

I

Out because we would love to see you, you know, keep the business going well and and make it as good as.

I

You can, and we want to do the right thing so I'd rather not do it than do it wrong, yeah. Well, so far,.

I

You're doing the right thing um so I'll reach out to them um and see what we can come up with and.

E

We'll we'll be, I guess, follow whatever procedure to through you want a motion to continue. Please.

I

All right and a lot of this discussion, uh mr chairman, I would make a motion to continue.

I

The hearing on this application um until we uh get some further feedback from the applicants and.

I

uh Maybe schedule it reschedule it if we can work something out and go forward from there.

I

Another second, that notion must be properly baited in. Second, then, that.

A

We propose to extend this hearing to a later date for some additional information.

A

And some clarity is there any further discussion on the motion hearing none.

A

All those in favor signify the saying aye opposed no so ordered this case will be.

A

Continued, uh as has been mentioned, we have no qualms with your being proper and fit persons to.

A

Have a license: uh there's some legal wordies and so on and so forth between the.

A

Franchise of blaze and the operation and the residency of an agent here, uh hopefully you can.

A

Maybe seek some legal advice or get information from from headquarters, ablaze and clear up the.

A

Questions that we have and, as I said, we have no question whatsoever that the both of you.

A

Are fit and proper to hold this alcohol license? That's not in question! It's just that according.

A

To our rules and regulations, uh there needs to be some clarity as to who is the actual licensee.

A

Per se, with relation to the corporation, so we'll continue this case at your pace. Perhaps we can get.

A

It done by next month or as soon thereafter as we can. So uh if you would like to.

A

Meet with our attorney and office staff.

A

They'll be glad to answer any questions that you have.

A

Thank you with that. Thank you. We look forward to having you back asap. Thank you.

A

We're gonna take a five minute break.

A

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we're back in session. I apologize for the lateness.

A

uh However, sometimes uh things are scheduled a certain way and the clock moves quicker than.

A

We do this time. I'd ask our attorney mr dixon to call our xcase 6373. Please all right case.

B

6373, a class b beer wine and liquor license issued to rula cake cicadas for the use of.

B

Corpothos inc trading, ash fertilities, italian and seafood restaurant 23, 15 ab.

B

Hanover pike hampstead maryland two one: zero. Seven, four violation hearing sailed to a minor.

B

In the file this matter, we have the following documents:.

B

December 23 2021 letter from jovas to rula sakalis.

B

A maryland driver's license with the volunteer shows.

B

She would be under the age of 21 until 8 28 2023.

B

Photograph with the volunteer at the table with a bottle of alcohol.

B

Alcohol compliance violation sheet dated december 22nd, 2021.

B

Signed by inspector keith, benford signed it completed by inspector keith benford and a notice.

B

Of violation for selling alcohol and completed by josh deal, I would ask that the farm be entered in.

B

Evidence will I set that in evidence this time. I would ask all those who intend to testify.

A

In the case, please stand and raise your right hand and be sworn in by mrs vance. Do you swear.

C

Or affirm under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to give is the truth.

A

Thank you and, as you testify those microphones, please pull them in front of you. uh They won't.

A

Bite then they're on, please state your full name and address and spell your last name for the.

A

Record inspector benford: uh will you be presenting this? Yes? Yes, sir? Yes, inspector, keith, benford board.

D

Of licensed commissioners on december 22, 2021 at approximately 5 40 p.m. I sent an underage.

D

Volunteer into fatalities with the intent to purchase alcohol, the volunteers sat at the.

D

Bar and ordered a quartzite bottle of beer, the bartender jose joseph diehl.

D

Asked the volunteer for her id she shared her him. The murder of her vertical maryland license.

D

Which stated that she was under 21 years old, the bartender then served the beer to the volunteer.

D

I spoke with the bartender joseph deal, he stated he is tips trained.

D

He stated he did that he knew that selling alcohol to minor is against the law. He has.

D

No reason for serving the minor I've also spoke with the manager, george, so kellis. It turned out.

D

The bartender actually looked at the id handed, the id to the manager and the manager okayed the sale.

D

Of the alcohol I then completed all paperwork I'd make a motion to enter two pictures.

D

As evidence, I showed a defense attendant. Thank you we'll accept them as evidence.

D

At the time of this incident, the volunteer was 19 years old.

I

Did you learn the name of the manager? I do not remember the name of manager.

I

And mr benford, who, who told you that the manager? Okay, the sale, george, the general general manager,.

H

Is the server here no.

A

Okay, who is uh going to present this case on behalf of the licensee good morning,.

L

Commissioners, my name is matthew lazariaga. My last name is spelled l-u-z-u-r-I-a-g-a on behalf of the.

L

Licensee, um if it's appropriate, I'd like to ask one question of mr benford, given the testimony.

L

That he's provided, let's here, okay, the only question is, mr benford, you don't know the name.

L

Of the manager that authorized the transaction, but is it fair to say it was not mr cicales.

L

Correct, yes, sir, that's my only question and then procedurally commissioners, um so that I get this.

L

Out front we're not contesting the violation as you'll hear from mr tell us, I don't. I don't know.

L

That there's anything other than the best that we can do to explain. So if I may be permitted to.

L

Inquire of mr cecalis I've got some information. I think that people would benefit from hearing.

L

Please proceed. Thank you, mr cicales. I don't believe you've yet stated your name and.

L

Business address for the record, please do so. My name is george gallows. Business address is two.

M

Three one: five: a hannover fly campus of maryland fertility italian restaurant. My last name spelt.

M

I s-a-k-e-l-l-I-s okay and mr kellis. You were uh last before this board period in march.

L

Of last year, is that correct, yes, and that had to do with cobia restrictions, correct.

L

Yes, all right and uh you were found not cultivable in that matter- correct! Yes, all right now, however,.

L

You were last before this board for two separate sales to minor violations. Those hearings took.

M

Place in december of 2020, correct, yes, okay, and during that those hearings, there were two separate.

L

Hearings, but they were back to back before the same board of commissioners. It was held virtually.

L

You explained in detail not only the circumstances of those prior violations, but the training that.

L

Your staff goes through your restaurant policies. Do you recall that testimony? I knew all right now.

L

Prior to those last two violations, but after the only other one on fratelli's record, which was in.

L

2018 memory service- correct, yes, did fratelli's adopt, among other things, a serving policy.

L

Yes, and is that policy in writing? Yes, is it contained within a fratelli's employee handbook.

L

That each employee gets yes now, I'm going to show you this, I don't know that we're necessarily going.

L

To make it an exhibit, but we may um is it accurate to say that the alcohol serving policy regarding.

L

Fertilities begins on page 61 of the 2019 handbook, yes, and it spans three total pages: correct, 61-63,.

L

Yes, okay, now there are a number of things included in the policy about what's to be.

L

Done when presented with an id, how much alcohols per patron can have all that type of thing is.

L

Outlined in the policy correct, yes, and each one of your employees is given a copy of this employee.

L

Handbook when they become employed, yes, they sign the last page for the receipt that they accepted.

L

um When we last, when you were last here in 2020, there was a distinction made between.

L

The acceptance of vertical ids from the state of maryland and from the state of.

L

Pennsylvania, do you recall that yes and you described to this board the reasoning why.

L

Fratelli's had originally gone away from refusing any vertical items. Do you recall that, yes,.

L

And that was largely in part due to the number of patrons you had from pennsylvania.

L

Yeah now, for a period of time, following your 2020 violations that we were here, was there a time.

L

Where you implemented a policy where no maryland vertical ids were accepted, yes, is that policy.

L

Still in place now, no can you tell the board members why that policy was in place and then.

M

It's quite simple: the reason why it's not in place anymore is due to the customer complaints we're.

M

Getting primarily not from the people's driver's license, not the holder of the driver's license.

M

But from the families, parents, especially moms a lot of complaints with that. Therefore,.

M

I instructed the staff that, when you get a vertical driver's license.

M

You just simply don't even look at it hand it to a manager and the manager is going to.

M

Tell you if this guest can be served? I'm sorry. I have a question: when did this policy change? Take.

I

Place uh about six months after I saw you on the virtual okay, so you saw us december of 2020 and.

I

At that time, at that hearing, you agreed that you were going to have a no vertical license policy.

I

Correct yes, yeah and then you changed it to back to your original policy of the manager.

I

Will make the call if you're presented with a vertical policy? Sorry vertical license is that.

M

Right, approximately six months after the year, okay, we changed to managers.

M

We'll verify vertical drivers licenses, so that was in june about somewhere in june. Right now,.

I

And the employee handbook that council referenced when was that put together.

M

The employment this this edition of the employee handbook was put together, 2019.

M

Okay, and as far as vertical license goes, what does that edition of the employee handbook state.

M

Well, there's language in the employee handbook that says that.

M

If you're in any question or any doubt, give the driver's license to a manager, okay,.

I

That was a policy you had before the double violation that we saw before in december of.

I

2020 is that correct? What's that, I'm sorry, so the the policy that you just.

I

Told us that's in the employee handbook really is the policy that you had in place before you came.

I

Before us in december of 2020., if there's any doubt go to the manager, I think that was.

I

Your test, I think that was your policy back. I may I may have said that during the hearing.

M

I mean I don't remember if I said that during the hearing, but it's something I would say I would.

M

Still say it now and I'll say it to the staff today when I go to work, okay, all right! Thank you.

L

Man continue there further questions, yeah, I'm sorry for that. Let me ask you a question: you've.

A

Got a book there, a handbook there and correct me if I'm wrong. You said uh this was on page 61.

A

Or two or something it began, the alcohol serving policy begins on page 61. and how many pages does.

A

It encompass the alcohol policy, yes, three pages and what is the total pages for the handbook.

L

72 72 72.. Thank you.

L

And if I may, in response to commissioner barman's uh question directs mr kellis, your attention to.

L

The top paragraph on page 62., would you agree with me that there is a portion that reads all ids or.

L

Driver's licenses with the vertical format must also be confirmed by a manager correct, yes, okay,.

L

All right now, I want to not spend a lot of time on it, but it may sound unbelievable to some in.

L

This room, when you're talking about parents of somebody with a vertical id complaining.

L

How many times do you personally recall a situation where a parent of someone who.

L

Came into your restaurant, with their vertical id complained that their child could not be served.

M

Well, the first time that, well that to answer your question is about.

M

Every other weekend, maybe two three times a month, it's actually gone to one point where the guest.

M

Got up and left 46 left and.

M

That was earlier on after I last saw you on the virtual hearing, so I still didn't.

M

Implement any changes, and then I got some more that on another scenario where he was.

M

The guest was refused because he had a vertical driver's license.

M

um He said they stayed, but he simply didn't order anything of water, so why were they.

H

Complaining about not being served vertical was it their 21st birthday. Is that the situation.

M

I'm not sure if it was their 21st birthday, because I didn't look at the date.

H

Because other than that they were trying to get a a person served, that's underage.

M

And then that may have been the case. However, according to their story, they're saying that.

M

They are 21. according to the story. Well, would tell you right on their license vertical license.

H

Whether they were 21 or not, you don't have to add anything. You just look on there and it.

H

Tells you the date that they're 21. I understand, but being that we've had some violations.

M

We went with the policy of no vertical id, so the date would kind of not really matter.

M

Just because we're not accepting vertical driver's license at that time that, after.

M

That is when I made the change yeah after the june 2020, you started taking vertical licenses.

H

Do you have any signs that say you you don't take vertilike vertical license on.

M

Apparently, right now, there's signs that keith has provided me that says that we do not accept.

M

Vertical driver's licenses, but you're not going to abide to that policy, though right.

H

What's that you're still going to take them right? No, oh you're! Not! Now! Okay! Now, let's be clear.

A

If I understood what you said a few minutes ago,.

A

If there's any question about a vertical license, now you take it to a manager right now,.

M

And you just now said that you don't accept vertical license, which isn't.

M

This very second we're not accepting vertical driver's license. There's signs in the restaurant.

M

At the entrance at the bar and at the back serving station where the servers exit the kitchen, let's.

M

Say we do not accept vertical driver's licenses. So what happens if another family of six gets up and.

H

Leave are you going to change your policy, it's very hard for a restaurant owner to see guests.

M

Drive from an hour and a half away to eat and get up and leave, but I'm not going to serve them.

I

When did you institute your latest policy that you do not serve vertical licenses? When did that.

I

Happen well, it happened on february. I'm sorry. What was the last summer, the last sunday of january.

M

We had a staff meeting, we were also closed for a majority of january for renovations.

M

Towards the end of the renovations, we had a staff meeting where all the bartenders, all the servers.

M

Came in and that's when I let them know that we are no longer accepting vertical driver's licenses.

M

And there's no exceptions and unfortunately they have to if they choose to leave that you sleep and.

I

What that was, after the latest violation that was, after the latest violations that we're here today.

I

Like okay, I understand now, and so if I can understand the timeline.

I

When you were here in 2020 in december 2020, you felt you would go with a.

I

No vertical license policy, then you had push back that had a commercial effect.

I

And six months later he said: okay, well, I'm going to go back to manager has to approve.

I

The vertical license at once presented is that right. Yes, that policy was very strict too okay.

I

And then, and then that was your policy until just recently, uh with the violation that mr uh benford.

I

Presented to us is that right, yes, yeah! Okay, thanks! Thank you, council, I'm sorry to keep interrupting.

L

No no problem: I want to make sure that your questions are answered.

L

uh Let's talk about the the evening in question for the violation we're here for today. Were you.

N

Working that evening, and who was the manager that mr bedford referenced in his recitation of facts.

L

His name is cheeky cheeky and how long had cheeky been employed by your company um in the beginning.

M

He was a server, he was a server for a year and a half to two years and managing for another year.

L

And was tiki cheeky excuse, my hips are tam certified.

M

He was at one point, but it may have been inspired at on the date of the violation, you're.

L

L

So from your standpoint, obviously.

L

You as the general manager and owner of the business culpability, this board lies with you, but.

L

What further steps do you feel could have been in place to prevent.

L

What happened in this violation from happening? What else could be done.

L

Well, I wish the driver's license was handed to me, but it just happened that.

M

Cheeky was behind the bar at the time of this incident, and it was very, uh it was very.

M

Easy for the bartender just to simply hand it the driver's license to cheeky being that he was right.

M

Next to him, um I've taken some steps. I right now. I have two managers that manage the dining room.

M

And the bar, I am now attempting to hire looking for someone to just solely manage the bar.

M

And not be responsible for the dining room and just keep a closer eye on the bar. um And then.

M

Leave the two dining room managers to manage the dining room, um also, the no verticalize.

M

No vertical ids that I'm going to do and stick to it, even if it does give them kickback.

L

um It's so that we're clear in what you're stating your intentions are here for the board of.

L

Commissioners, are you going to accept pennsylvania, there's no vertical driver's license for any state.

L

Okay, now also in in terms of what's happened with the management and day-to-day operations since.

L

This particular violation is cheeky, still employed. No did he leave voluntarily um the.

M

Evening of that, the incident happening I sent them help and I never heard back from them again.

M

I taking everything into consideration. I felt that cheeky should have been held accountable.

M

Just as much as joe deal was being that cheeky did give permission to the bartender.

M

Joseph deal to serve the beer to the miner.

M

On camera clearly shows the manager holding the driver's license looking at the driver's license.

M

And gave permission to the bartender to serve her, but I haven't heard back from him since mr keith.

M

Brought me some paperwork for the manager to sign. I contacted him I needed to come in. I have some.

M

Paperwork for you to sign, never heard from him again. His wife mentioned that he is now in india.

M

That he mentioned to me during his employment but according to his wife.

M

He won't be coming back now. I don't know if that's true or not true, but so, for all intents.

L

And purposes he's no longer employed. He has not been there since december 22 of last year, correct.

L

All right now uh to your knowledge, uh mr diehl, the bartender he's still employed correct yes and.

L

He did elect to participate in the state's attorney's diversion program. Is that correct.

L

Yes- and I know you tried to confirm it earlier this morning, but you were unable.

L

To reach him, but it's your expectation he has already completed that program- is that right.

L

Yes, I heard yeah, I heard him mention that he was doing the program a few weeks ago. Okay, now in.

L

Terms of uh when you're there you've previously testified to the board that you typically work.

L

Six days, open and close is that still the case? Okay in your role and your responsibility would.

L

It be practical if every time someone had to check an id, they had to specifically bring it to you.

L

Would that be too much to ask? No wouldn't okay council: do you mean a vertical id.

I

Or any id any id that under the policy requires to be verified by a manager, because it also reads.

L

That out-of-state ideas need to be verified by the man. um But it's fair to say that at least.

L

On the date of this violation, you were reliant on somebody that you believed to be properly.

L

Trained and could look at the front of an id and see that this person was not 121., correct.

L

I was relying on ges, but but you understand the culpability ultimately lies with you.

L

L

Obviously, at this point in time, when the board sees the fact that you've been licensed since.

L

Before 2012 almost 10 years, 10 years, but you've got a cluster of violations in the last two and a.

L

Half years you you find that to be problematic, correct! Yes, and it's embarrassing to you.

L

And at this point, you've testified about all the steps that you're going to take to alter your.

L

Business policy uh moving forward and is there anything else that you believe in addition to.

L

You testified you're, looking for a specific bar manager, you've changed.

L

The the id policy again, regardless of whether or not it's going to have commercial effect.

L

Is there anything else that has been done in most recent days to incentivize anybody who.

L

Catches uh somebody trying to are doing a compliance check has that happened.

L

Recently, yes, one of my own, it was brought to my attention that last night, I don't know if it.

M

Was a compliance check? It was a complexion. How on that is the image? Sorry excuse me.

M

Two two guests sat down: um ask for some type of beer, where my server then identified them and.

M

Refused service- and there was an incentive to that staff member and do you intend to keep that.

L

Policy in place incentive incentive program if somebody catches a compliance check or anything.

L

Like that, would you be giving a bonus of some kind of that employee? Yes, I'm going to give I'm.

M

Going to give a balance, what was the incentive from last night? It was two hundred dollars.

H

Let me ask a question: did that server take those ids to the manager? Did the server himself.

H

Deny that the server was reprimanded from last night because he did not follow policy.

H

So he did not take it to. He did not the manager, he just denied service himself. He denied service.

H

Himself and his reasoning behind that was that they cleared, he clearly saw that they were not 21.

H

And you and you penalized him for that- he didn't follow policy. Yes,.

I

I thought you said you changed the policy. I did.

I

That's after this event, we're talking about right now, but I I thought you were talking.

K

About last night last night there was an incentive, and he and he didn't follow policy.

I

By taking it to the manager, but I thought you told us before, but that's no longer the policy.

I

The reason why joe was reprimanded last night is because I clearly saw on camera that he.

M

Was looking at the driver's license and doing the math to see if these were 21 and when I asked them.

M

I asked them if these vertical drivers licenses were 21, would you serve them and he said yes, okay,.

I

That's a violation of your policy, but your policy last night, no vertical licenses, yes or no. No.

I

Vertical driver's licenses, absolutely yes! Okay! So are you? You are tips or tams right. I've done.

H

The program three times since you've done it three times you do know you don't have to add anything.

H

On these license right to figure out if they're 21., it says right on there 21 as of a certain date.

H

You understand that right, so your server didn't need to add anything.

M

If he would have served these guests- and he said yes, that's not: okay, okay,.

M

Because we have a program that says no vertical driver licenses.

M

By him saying yes, he confirmed to me that he would have accepted a vertical driver's license.

H

And he was aware of your policy change right. He was a. He was at the meeting that I held over so.

A

How many employees do you have that are tips or tam certified? Do you know roughly.

A

You've got so many employees, you know, but you know.

A

Pardon three of the ones: three, only three are damn certified tips are tan.

M

Did I'm not quite sure if joe is too damn certified, but if he does actually.

L

He stated he was, I don't know why, how many total employees do you have with front of the house.

H

45 and only three are tams tips, 20 of which are back in the house.

I

Right so 25 from the house, employees and of that number, how many would be uh or who would.

I

Find it beneficial be tipsy tam certified how many of those would be serving people, alcohol.

M

uh The bartenders and the servers which we have about eight nine servers a night and two.

M

Bartenders so about 11 employees and managers distribute our beverages as well, so about.

M

14 total in one evening council is there uh more threat you want to pursue. I I want to get back to.

I

Some earlier questions, but I don't want to keep interrupting you. I don't believe so. Thank you.

I

Mr kellis, do you what ownership interest do you have in carpathos inc.

M

I

And what ownership interest in car panthers inc does the licensee have? Are we referring to profits.

I

Now, ownership interests, so your license is in the name of.

I

For the use of carpathos inc right so carpathos is a maryland corporation. I'm assuming and.

I

Do you have any ownership interest in that corporation? Yes, it's like do you hope stock if.

I

It's a stock corporation or if it's a non-stock corporation, do you have a percentage of that.

I

Okay and what percentage is that um the officers on the corporation are me.

M

Which is my mom and my father? Nixon? Okay, equal all evil shares no okay,.

M

And to answer your question, I don't exactly know, but I can find out and let you know that's.

I

Not that important, I just want to know if that you did have an ownership interest. Yes, okay,.

I

But the licensee is not here dave because she's overseas right and when you were here the last.

I

Time in 2020 december 2020, uh miss rula cyclist was not here at that time either because she was.

I

Tending to uh ill mother and she's still attending to that whole mother. Yes, she was recently here.

M

And I took her to jfk airport to get back to her mom on mid-january, okay, so so she has.

I

Come back and uh been involved with the restaurant in between december of 2020 and today.

I

Mostly, except for her visit her mother, she did come to the restaurant several times.

M

But to tell you the truth, I'm the one doing the daily operations right, yeah, I'm doing the I'm.

M

Doing the legwork yeah, so um she recently came and bought her home in westminster. So she's.

M

When she bought house in westminster, that shows me that she is planning on coming back.

M

Okay soon um she came for the holidays and to check out the restaurant and.

I

All right I mean I, I just want to get a so the landscape. There of you know licensees.

I

Involvement in the restaurant and the ownership of the licensee, because the licensee has missed.

I

The last two hearings, and normally we require the licensee to be here, but I understand these are.

I

Extenuating circumstances.

I

In december of 2020, you had mentioned that you had a volunteer named.

I

Nicolette, who would come in and regularly test your your people to make sure that they.

I

Were following compliance, your compliance rules and things along those lines regarding underage.

I

Sales right, remember that I do do you still have that uh program in place. I do but no, I think, a lot.

I

And what exactly? What exactly uh is the national program you have now.

I

To test uh your service, the program I have now is the same thing, but with the kidney of austin.

M

Great kid he goes into the middletown location and sits at a table and orders a drink.

M

And I see if he served, he does not actually drink it. If he is served.

M

Okay and on occasion he comes to hampstead as well. Okay, I'm sorry so two different locations, yes,.

I

And uh your attorney had uh had discussion with you about the frequency of complaints.

I

Of your customers, when there was a problem with serving a vertical license, and I kind of missed.

I

The frequency, so there was a six-month period after december of 2020, that.

I

You were not serving anyone for a vertical license, so I assume that was the period of time where you.

I

Had most of your complaints about refusing sale to a vertical license uh patron right? Yes, so during.

J

During that period of time, could you could you discuss for us how often you would have.

I

A complaint during that six or seven months a few times a month, two to three times a month. Thank you.

A

To follow up on that, to your best recollection.

A

Were the complaints from out-of-state residents or in the state.

A

Approximately what percentage your sales are? Alcohol.

M

A good restaurant should be 20 percent, I'm about 17.

A

Do you have any other questions case to present.

L

Yes, thank you. Thank you, mr chair. Mr cicalis, do you have another.

L

Program- that's not yet been discussed here today that you implement on some.

L

Busier occasions to ensure that there is no complications with ids drinking.

M

On weekends,.

M

On weekends and holidays, like the weekend approaching valentine's day and starting.

M

From friday, rolling normally rolling to sunday, but this time.

M

All the way into monday, I employ an off-duty officer and they come in from 4 30 pm, 5 pm.

M

To close and they sit at the bar and they make sure that each guest only has three drinks.

L

And the three drink uh maximum is consistent with fratelli's policy.

L

That's a pop, that's a that's a that's! Our policy.

M

That each guest can only be served three drinks is that an advertised policy, no.

I

Is that the employee handbook that your attorney was referencing, the.

M

Employee handbook is going to state that each guest can have four drinks, but now.

M

The policy is three dreams: okay, and why did you switch? Because four is too many.

I

And this is an off-duty police officer yeah. Now what department? Okay.

I

And- and this is just for like busy times weekends you're, employing, I assume, you're paying money to.

I

Sit there and keep an eye on the establishment to make sure everything is within four squares.

M

I make that judgment call when I look at the reservations- and I know that it's going to.

M

Be really busy, and I know that even for someone like me, there's only so much attention I can put.

M

At the bar, it's impossible for me to manage the reservations, manage the dining room and also count.

M

Drinks at the counter top of the bar, so knowing that I can't be present there, I just put a body.

I

There so someone sitting at the bar waiting for a table to open up does that happen uh after tally's.

I

Very often, yes, I'm informed if you have a drink at the bar and then they switch over to it. Okay,.

I

So that that all falls in your lap then keep keeping track of that that three drink 11.

H

Mr cigales, were you there the night of that violation? I don't you may have told me, but I don't.

H

Know you were there that night? um Let me ask you a little bit of question about the.

H

Program, you have where you have an individual, come in and sit down um under your orders.

H

And try to purchase a drink and this person's underage do you use the same person all the time.

M

um It's changed over to three different minors, so you have three different minors that do it for you.

H

One one or two of which are not 21, so I guess we can't use those. But yes, so it's.

M

Not the same person every time. How often do you have them do it? It varies um once a month.

M

They're tested pretty frequently now I make sure that I'm doing a variety of different.

M

Employees that I'm not obviously testing the same employee employee like, for example, last night.

M

The kid that got the compliance check. Yes, he's a he's one. I would not test, because I know that.

M

I know the type of employee is. I want to test the ones that are in question. Okay, so.

H

You would pretty much tell them what tables to sit at a lot of the times. I see them. Okay,.

I

I just want to make sure I understand the record here. um Our wave chart indicates that since.

I

April 19th of 2018 uh fratelli's has had uh I'm sorry four underage violations.

L

If I may clarify mr parham that this would be the fourth yes so there's the hearing date of june.

L

13Th of 18 two hearings on december 9th of 20. right. Yes, there's no contest about today, so so.

I

Today's accepted as a violation, so there's four uh since april 2018.. I believe one of.

H

Them was one of them, a failed recheck. I believe the the two december of 20.

L

Cases were back to back in less than two months: okay, yes, but it was okay yeah. I thought it was a.

I

Fail follow-up as well, but you know mr benford can verify that it was clarified this manager that.

H

That, okay, this vertical license: how long have you been working for you.

H

uh Almost about three years three years was he promoted from a server to a manager.

I

And what was his name? I know he said cheeky, but what's the name his name? His name is chi.

M

um It's, I believe, that's a nickname. I believe his neat legal name is.

M

But I'm not quite sure what what georgia sent me before, because he actually would.

D

Sign up for the diversion program, I'm gonna spell it first name, v-a-I-b-h.

D

V, last name: chalky c h, a l, k e and on george's suggestion, we signed him up for the diversion.

D

Program also, okay, right, so that's the paperwork I dropped now. He hasn't signed the paperwork so.

I

Okay, so originally he was not given diversion program paperwork but then discussing with george.

D

And that's disgusting with state's attorney's office, it was determined that he should get.

D

Diversion program also now I agree with that, and I agree with what you said. Mr cycle is about.

I

He should also uh be participating uh and some sanctions as they come down for this.

I

And I'm talking about the manager.

D

And I'd like to make a note: they were playing cooperative throughout the incident.

L

For purposes of completing the record, I have uh one more question from mr cicales.

L

And then, at the appropriate time, I've got some comments. I'd like to make okay.

L

Mr cicales, uh is it fair to say that if a suspension of your license were imposed, it would.

L

Constitute a financial hardship in the business. Yes, I don't have any further questions, but at.

L

The right time, I would like to give some comments. Commissioners, do you have any further questions.

H

I have one question, mr scala is: what percent uh gross did you say your alcohol is 17.

I

No, I don't have any further questions.

A

A

Testimony is closed and we will move into.

A

Closing statements you may proceed, sir. Thank you, mr chair commissioners. Obviously we are.

L

Here today, hat in hand, because there's really no explanation other than a factual one. That.

L

The safeguards that were put in place that I know have been the subject of a number of.

L

Discussions with this board internally with mr ciquelis's employees and himself and his managers.

K

Commissioner, barnhart put it in 2020 that something is missing and.

L

It seems to be what mr cicales has come down to. The idea is that, no matter how much he informs or.

L

Trains or relies on managers the something that's missing, unfortunately, has to be a stark policy.

L

Regarding vertical ids, regardless of the impact that it has on him commercially, um mr bronning.

L

The chair was appropriately pointed out to him at the end of the 2020 hearing, when mr ciquela said.

K

This is what I'd like to do. With your permission, mr brawning pointed out. Well, mr cicales, that's.

J

Really your decision now, obviously with that, comes all the trappings of. If that's not your decision,.

L

And your bartender and your manager don't look at something printed on the front of the license or.

L

Fail to recognize it you're going to be the one that pays the price and he's here doing that.

L

The only thing that I can suggest to this board is that the absence of us really knowing whether.

L

Or not, there have been compliance checks in the 12-13 months between the december.

L

2020 violations and this one I don't think we can take anything from that. But as far as I.

L

Understand the way the inspector works we don't find out if there's a check unless it's a fail.

L

So without knowing what else is to be done, mr cicales is left to adapt with each and every.

L

Time there's a problem and that's where he finds himself right now. uh I don't know what.

L

More could be done aside from his change to say fine. We have to go back to new vertical ids.

L

Or stop selling alcohol together and that's just not something that's going.

L

To be commercially feasible or available for him, so what I would request and or suggest.

L

Is that any any suspension of his license if you were inclined to recommend or order the same.

L

Would really be punitive only and would not solve the issue.

J

So it's my request that this board consider imposing any fine, that's applicable and if.

L

You are going to recommend a suspension that the suspension be stayed for an appropriate period.

L

That this board may want to place the licensee on a probationary period or something like that.

L

Understanding that the number of appearances before this board is already too many.

L

And I don't think mr ciquel has ever expected to be back here. He certainly didn't desire to be back.

L

Here and I think, based on his sincerity here today, I think you can see that he's doing.

L

Everything he can to avoid being back here for any negative reason. Thank you. I believe, if you are.

H

Check that you get a congratulatory letter is that correct or not correct.

H

Yeah, that's my failing it's not from mr cicales, so he would know- and I think he's only been.

H

Checked between 2020 and this last violation, one time that he passed- okay, that was 12-3. I think.

A

Have any comments this time? I wouldn't no. I have no comments at this time. Other than.

I

I would make the appropriate notion chairman, but um I mean you might have a call me uh specter.

A

Benford, do you have any follow-up summary? um I did interact with george that night of the incident.

D

And he was very distraught, um he was very upset he take. He takes these personally and I believe him.

D

um He actually that night told two servers in front of me: we're not taking vertical ids.

H

If I can make one comment chairman: yes, one thing that I think could have changed this whole thing.

H

Is generally when people have two violations like that, we always ask them: what did you do after the.

H

Last violation to try to prevent the new violation and they give us a list of things that they did.

H

And most of the time, they're all positive. So if I were to ask you what you did from the 2020 to now.

H

What you would tell me, and if this is not correct, let me know is that you decide to continue taking.

H

Vertical license or changed your policy from no vertical license to taking vertical license.

H

And I think you, if you had not changed that june policy, that maybe this had.

H

Not would not even have happened and you're absolutely right, and I think back at that time.

M

Obviously, because I'm here and I wish that I never made that decision but as much as I wish to make.

M

The right decision to point the company in the right direction, sometimes you mess up and that.

M

Decision, yes to answer your question: do I regret that decision? Yes, during the staff meeting, I.

M

When I was speaking to the service about this topic, I.

M

Said I don't understand how someone is structured as me is in this position, and they let me down and.

M

Trust me, I I think back at that time frame where I said: okay, vertical ids only go to managers.

M

Which it did go to a manager but ultimately right still servant right? Yes, I regret that and that's.

H

Why the board always recommends establishments not to take vertical licenses, because.

H

You're only one person, you can't be there and monitor all 45 employees right.

I

I just have a quick question um based on your your file, your gross alcohol sales in 2020.

I

Were 7.3 percent of your receipts? Does that sound right or wrong? It doesn't sound right.

M

So are you referring to beer wine, liquor and cocktails versus food, so there's a ratio between.

I

Food and alcohol sales and restaurants report that to the board, excuse me what what what did you just.

A

Say seven percent seven point three percent, so my understanding is. He said that alcohol sales.

A

Represents 17 right, I'm just looking at my notes. I could be wrong, but I thought the file reflects.

I

For now in 2019 it was eight percent and and the actual gross number of alcohol sales in.

I

2020, that's reported by fatalis was two hundred fifteen thousand three hundred ninety four dollars.

I

And then it was a note that that was seven point. Three percent of the gross.

I

Proceeds to the restaurant, I'm sorry, you said that was a 2020 number, yeah sure yeah, okay, which is way.

I

Down from obviously from 2019., so 2020 is a covet number 2019 was was you know, the numbers were much.

L

Higher, so I'm sorry, what was the percentage in 2019 reported percentage? She was 7.3 percent.

I

I thought that was 20 20., oh 2019. Oh uh 2019 was eight percent. Okay.

I

Now it could be wrong um and I'm absolutely gonna look into that, but no those numbers do not.

M

Sound right to you, okay, they they don't but well, I'm certainly not testifying here, but.

L

I'm just offering, by way of an explanation march of 2019, was when the restaurants were shut down.

K

And alcohol sales couldn't even happen, so perhaps the numbers were reflected in both right well, food.

I

Sales couldn't happen either so proportionately, as I looked through several years of what fatalities.

I

Was reporting was pretty consistent, the gross numbers were down significantly like 2019 alcohol.

I

Sales were reported to be over half a million dollars in 2019 yeah. Now, maybe I'm reading it.

I

Wrong and which is quite possible because I you know I don't normally go digging into.

I

This information, but I thought maybe in this case I would like to know uh especially in light.

I

Of what you know council was suggesting uh about, you know, staying suspension and things like that.

I

And I think, council, you know that the uh maximum fine we can give is 2 000. and uh the last time.

I

Here uh the combined fine was 2 000 for the two events, 600 and 1400, so that that's kind of.

I

Not a significant jump like what we normally impose when there's a pattern.

I

So that's that's my reason. I want to look at these numbers uh just so. I had a better understanding.

I

I might be wrong, but that's what I had.

H

So in a normal year it would be 17. Is that reasonable, and that is what owners strive for now.

M

Are these num are these percentages here given to you monthly or annually? I think that's, the annual.

M

So, mr uh the numbers, I think that he is referring to is when you apply for your license renewal.

A

There is a figure that is placed upon that renewal for the past year's business and that's, I think.

A

I'm correct: that's the figure that he's taking from uh so it's a report that is generated by.

A

You your establishment, I should say I don't who does the report.

A

But those numbers are are given to us uh as you renew your license, and I assume.

A

That the license renewal has been received. Yes, I did receive the license. It may just been a.

C

Math error because I'm coming up with 12 based on that. Well, we can discuss figures here all day, long.

A

Whether they're pro or con or whatever they are, but I'm sure it's a significant figure.

A

So with, unless you have any other questions either one of you comments.

A

Testimony is closed and now we will move into the discussion of the merits of the case.

I

Mr chairman, I would make a motion that we briefly adjourn to discuss the merits of the case.

I

Thank you. The question has been properly made in a second that we adjourn to.

A

Discuss the merits of the case any further discussion on the motion hearing none.

A

Ladies and gentlemen, we're back in session. uh Mr chairman, I make a motion that we.

I

Go back on the record.

H

uh Mr chairman, I second that question is made in a second that we go back on.

A

The record all those in favor signify by saying I opposed we're back on the record.

H

Mr chairman, I can uh I'd like to make a motion if it's okay with you and the other commissioner.

H

Yes, sir, at this time we will find uh uh case uh 6373, uh fratelli's uh seafood, restaurant.

H

Hannover pike hampstead maryland culpable of a fourth violation of sail to minor, we'll find.

H

Find them two thousand dollars, and on top of that it will be a deferred ten day suspension.

H

Starting on a friday to be determined, um and if the, uh if they have a violation within.

H

Three year period, we will implement that that deferred suspension for the for the 10 days.

H

Also, we will also be able to check for telly's multiple times our inspectors at their will.

I

I would second that motion and just for point of clarification, I I think what we're saying is that.

I

Our inspectors may appear at fratelli's more than he used to in the past. If, if you accept that.

I

Then uh then I would second, the mission motion has been properly made in the second and that we find.

A

The licensee culpable and assess a two thousand dollar fine, with a ten day suspension a friday to.

A

A friday to be determined if there is a violation within the next three years, and that numerous.

A

Checks for sales to minor will be held within that period of time. Just one clarification.

I

Mr chairman, I think it's a 10 day suspension from friday to sunday, sunday sunday, I'm sorry.

A

Any further discussion on the motion: yes, sir.

A

All those in favor signify the saying, aye close, no, so water, we find you culpable, assess a 2 000.

A

Fine, which can be paid within the next 30 days upon official receipt of the actions of this.

A

Commission today and a 10-day suspension, beginning on a friday through a sunday.

A

Which could be added if a violation for sales to a minor within the next three year.

A

Period occurs, and that would be in addition to any action that would be taken from a future violation.

A

And the understanding that numerous checks will be made during this three-year period.

A

Do you understand the action of this commission.

A

You have any questions.

L

I no mr chair, my only question was going to be the violation which you clarified. It means no very.

K

Specifically, no more minor sales violations will trigger trigger the suspension, not everything else.

A

That's the understanding. Yes, yes, thank you, commissioners. Thank you all very much.

A

We wish you thought, success and hope we don't have to go through this again.

A

Maybe excuse me.

A

But this time I would ask our attorney mr dixon to call our next case 6374. Please.

B

All right case, 6374 class c beer, one and liquor license issued to sid reyes. Richard d wrote.

B

And james w brown for the use of hampstead american legion post, 200, building core.

B

Trading as hampstead american legion post, 200, 4, 600 legion drive, hampstead maryland 21074.

B

Violation hearing sailed to a minor and to follow this matter. We have the following documents:.

B

A january 12 2022 letter from dennis e mitchell to the board of licensed commissioners notice.

B

Of attention to defend with the box checked, I intend to contest the alleged violation.

B

Dated january 12, 2022 signed james brewer.

B

There's a december 23rd 2021 letter from joe vance to sid reyes, richard d, wrote and james brown.

B

There's a photograph of the volunteer vertical maryland driver's license that states that she.

B

Was under 21 until august 28 2023 there's a photograph of the volunteer at the table with a.

B

Bottle of alcohol in front of her, there is a alcohol.

B

Compliance violation sheet dated december 22nd, 2021 and completed by and signed by inspector.

B

Keith benford there's a notice of violation for selling alcohol to persons under 21.

B

Under the stationary brian l de leonardo and it's signed by wilbur.

B

Wroten, I would ask that the file be entered into evidence.

A

Thank you we'll accept that in the evidence this time I would ask all those who intend to.

A

Testify in this case, please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in advance. Please.

C

Do you swear our firm under the penalties of perjury that the testimony you're about to give.

C

Is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

You may be seated, thank you it. May I remind you, as you are called upon, to testify the first time to.

A

Please state your name and address for the record and spell your last.

A

Name and those microphones can be just pulled closer to you speak up. Thank you.

A

My name is dennis mitchell 1329 north main street instant, maryland.

A

Represent the against the coast: 200 american legion. Thank you, mr mitchell. Specter benford.

A

Will you be presenting this case? Yes, please proceed down inspector keith, benford board of.

D

Licensed commissioners on december 22nd, 2021 at approximately 4 50 p.m. I had an.

D

Underage volunteer enter hampstead american legion post with intent to purchase alcohol.

D

The volunteers sat at the bar, the bartender will welcome sitting in a white long sleeve shirt.

D

Asked the volunteer what she wanted. The volunteer asked for miller light. The bartender asked the.

D

Volunteer for her id, the volunteers showed her maryland license the vertical license: states that.

D

She's under 21 years of years of age, the bartender then served the vote to volunteer the beer.

D

Upon my arrival I spoke with, the bartender will roten, he is tips certified and he knows.

D

That it's crime just to serve a minor. He said he did not serve the minor and he has no excuse.

D

I showed defense counsel, two pictures. I make a motion aaron these two pictures, mr benford.

H

I have one question: did you say the server said he did not serve the money? That's what he told me. Yes,.

A

We'll accept those of the exhibits into evidence.

D

The volunteer at the age of this incident was 19 years old.

A

I

We don't need a county attorney here for this contestant case.

A

Okay, this time, mr mitchell, would you like to proceed and tell us uh captain question for.

A

The inspector uh the inspector when the initial conversation took place between the young lady.

A

Facility you weren't in there until the bartender was returning the license to the.

D

Young lady, were you that's correct. I walked in where mr richard was talking to. I believe.

D

One of the licensees and in the process of returning the license okay, so you didn't hear.

A

The conversation took place at the time of the currency. No, I do not. Okay and.

A

When you entered the premises and came in to the building, he was returning the license to the only.

A

Did he attempt to remove a beer can that he had? That was sitting at the back of the bar.

A

To take it away, I do not remember him, I do not recall no, okay, did you move the beer can from.

A

Its location, yes, I did, I moved it closer to take a picture. You moved it from the back of.

A

The bar down in front of the young, lady, yes, okay, and that bar is approximately 15 inches wide. So.

A

If the beer was sitting at the back, you use it down. According to your picture right near her at.

A

The front of the bar, maybe that's about six seven inches. Okay, I'd have nothing further for them.

I

So if I understand the sequence here, you were not in the building when the beer was brought.

I

To the volunteer, when I, when I got in the building, the beer was sitting in front of the volunteer.

D

I came up with you, there would be pictures, but it was sitting at at the.

D

Other end in front of her at the bar 20 20, so we say: 50 bars, 15 inches, that's the back of.

D

The board: okay I'll, get that in a second now. My question: is you weren't in the building.

I

When the beer was brought to the lake, no, I was not in okay and at some point you come in.

D

That's after she texts me that she's been served the alcohol and that's when I could.

I

Okay and when you came in what did you see, I saw an open mirror, like can sitting in front.

D

Of her at on the bar, it was open. Yes, it was open when you say sitting in front how far away from.

I

12 and 12 inches to 13 inches, something like that with if the. If, if the bar is 15 inches going by.

D

What defense attorney saying it was high right on the edge of 15 between 12 to 15 inches away.

I

Okay, uh was it within her grasp yesterday because she had reached and retreated and picked it up? Yes,.

I

You say easily which she had to bend over. Would she have to get out of.

D

Her seat because she stayed seated and reached, you can stay seated and reach it.

D

Okay, like this, and you did not see who opened to this beer, can, I did not see you opening okay.

I

I'm sorry um that's what question I have at the moment.

A

Mr miller, you may proceed. uh I would call.

A

uh My show would you please state your full name and address.

N

Charles joseph marshall, m-a-r-s-c-h-a-l-l.

N

And I live at 3850 normandy drive unit, 1c hampstead maryland 21074 and are you a.

A

Member of the american phoenician post 200. Yes, I am and are you what is your current capacity.

N

I'm the commander of the post and I'm going to ask you: does the.

A

Post maintain some type of security system at the facility. Yes, we have.

N

The video cameras at the facility, how many video cameras do you have.

A

And sixteen those cameras in operation on the 22nd of december 2021. Yes, they were around the hours.

A

Of 4 30 in the afternoon around the time this occurrence. Yes, they were okay and, as a result,.

A

You became aware of this particular violation that was alleged to happen at the facility.

N

Yes, we became aware- and did you in conjunction with anyone, retrieve the videos and obtain.

A

Pictures of the occurrence that took place at that time, strat security, provides our security.

N

System and we've invited a technician to come in and help us review the tape.

N

And retrieve pictures from the tape- and you were actually involved in the transposing of these. Yes.

A

With those pictures in any way altered modified change from the original view.

A

Of the cameras, no, it's not possible I'd like to take a look at these.

A

Eleven photographs of the time frame in which this currents took place.

O

And see if you can identify this, take a look at that one. Yes,.

N

Yes, those are the pictures from the tape. We would answer these little evidence as in.

A

Exhibits one through eleven, showing the time occurrence of when the alleged incident occurred.

A

We'll accept them in the evidence.

A

Does your facility have a training program for bartenders? Yes, we do and is that something that.

A

You post or a brochure, or how do you do that? We're usually notified of what we call a tips, training.

N

Program and we ask the bartenders to attend okay and, as a result of that, are all your bartenders.

N

Yes- and you are a private organization, the general public.

N

No we're a not-for-profit american legion and not open to the public.

A

So, in order to get into the facility you either have to have a key card.

A

To get through the front door or you have to be buzzed in if someone comes in that.

A

Forgot their card or someone that's coming in to be meet some other facility correct.

H

I've got nothing further than this witness. I got a question if I can ask questions or.

D

Would you want to answer, let's see what my colleagues have to say before you ask anything.

A

Do you have any problems? No, I asking questions um but but let me ask this question. First,.

I

Do you know whether or not this lady was buzzed in to the circle? I'm asking him yeah both the.

N

The volunteer and the uh inspector were buzzed in by mr uh rhodes, mr roberts gilbert. He was a.

J

Bartender in question: yes, doesn't it okay? So how does that work? uh He hears a bell ringing.

N

Yes, there's a bell that rings and there's a buzzer underneath the bar that he pushes to admit.

N

Okay and um how does he know that it's a member of the club, I mean a member of the organization.

I

That's coming through the door. How does he know that you asked for identification? Okay,.

I

Who asked for identification bartender, okay? Is there a log keep up sign in uh if you're.

N

Not a member and you're with, if you're a guest of a member, you have a log to sign.

I

Okay, in this case, was this a volunteer, a guest of a member- uh I'm sorry, I didn't hear that was this.

I

Particular volunteer that we have a photograph of was she a guest of a member she claimed she was.

I

And and the bartender asked her if she was a guest of a member. Yes did she sign a log? No okay,.

I

That's all I have at the moment um you not have to sign a log when you're a guest.

N

H

Is there any reason why they didn't make her sign the log.

N

Can you repeat that I'm hard of hearing, I'm sorry, is there any reason.

H

They didn't make her sign the log. Why didn't she sign? In other words, why didn't she sign the log.

N

She claimed she was meeting a member and she was waiting for him, but she's.

H

Still a guest right: yes, so she should have signed the log. Yes.

A

Any other questions of this witness I got questions. When was she asked for id.

D

To determine if she was a member, she was she asked for id. If she was a member, she was asked for id.

D

When, in the process.

N

Before she was served, the beer, okay.

A

Any further questions of mr marshall, if not mr mitchell, our next witness thank you.

G

Would you please state your full name and address? My name is warframe.

G

And I live on t101 starters bird break in westminster, maryland 2175.

A

All right, and are you a member of the american legion? I am. How long have you been a member here.

G

I've been a member over probably 20 years or so all right and you're.

A

You're a bartender in the facility- and you were bartender on the date of this occurrence,.

A

On december 22nd, yes, okay, I'm going to show you documents that have been.

A

Given to the board to take a look at and ask you if you would look at these and tell me.

P

What you observe here, what does that picture show you? This is exhibit number one. Doesn't love.

A

Given access to get in with this picture, yes, I love you all right and if you will.

A

Note when, um on the picture, they're all date and time stand showing the specific.

A

Times that these occurrences took place, let me show you: the next picture exhibit number two.

A

Tell me what, if any conversation you had with the longest lady when she came in.

A

I asked her for her identification there and I was looking at it and.

G

He's on the license here: well, what did what, if anything, did she say what she was a member of.

A

She told me she wasn't a member, but her boyfriend was coming in okay. So if someone else was coming.

G

She was yeah, does the guest sign the login or does it yes they're supposed to, but I okay, I didn't get.

G

Her there, I guess that's my fault, so she said she said that she wasn't a member, but she was.

A

And at that point you asked her if she wanted something to drink. Yes, I did and what did she.

G

Tell you she told me she wanted to know early, and I did I made another mistake, but just.

G

Setting it up there all right now, where did you set? The beer can have you given her that beard.

A

Did not give it to him, so it's actually sitting at the back of the setting at the back of the bar.

A

Did you ask her contemporary so when you brought the beer.

A

Okay and that picture shows you looking at her like, so you did not set the beard down in front.

A

Of her, no, I did not let me let you look at the next photograph here. This is exhibit number three.

J

Number three: it seems that by correct that you're still looking at her license, I was still looking.

G

At that that was, I was confused and if, on that picture you can see, the beer chain is actually.

A

Back behind your head, not down in front of this young lady, okay, I'm sorry excuse me sure. Did you.

I

Say, did you ask if the beer was back behind? You can see his head? The beer came in his back behind.

I

Me except you're, number three yep, three: okay, thank you. You can see it behind there, where it's located.

A

He brought it over as he said and sat at the back of the car and he asked for her identification.

A

At the time you were looking at it did anyone else at the borah. Ask you anything about this yeah ask.

G

Yes, what capacity does he have also.

G

Don't know is he involved in the license? Oh yes,.

A

Yes, he's one of the licensing, so he asked you if he could look at that license.

A

Right all right now, I'm going to refer you to exhibit number four and tell me what that shows.

G

That location over there so yeah you both at this point, are looking at her license. Yeah.

A

Okay and at this point, as you can see the school alongside her, the inspector's, not there he's not.

A

There, okay, so all this is transparent before the inspector enters the building. As a result,.

A

Of your conversation with the licensee, what, if any decision did you reach regarding whether.

A

She was qualified to be served whether or not she could drink beer uh wasn't going to serve her okay.

G

All right number five- I should look at that again and what does that show you? That's the.

G

Inspector coming in okay, so the inspector's now coming in the building after this has transpired.

A

At that point he had not been in the building to see what took place. Let me let you take a look.

G

Now, at exhibit number six, what are you doing there? I'm giving her her license back you're returning.

A

The license- huh okay and the beer is still sitting at the back of the car. Yes right, there.

A

Exhibit number seven tell me what you're doing here now the inspector recorded this picture.

A

Looks like he's in the victory. Take it off of the bar. You were going to remove the beer.

A

And what, if anything, the inspector said to you just what did he tell you about the beer.

G

He wanted the beer pan, I guess, did he tell you to take it not today? No, he didn't tell me to take it.

G

No, so, okay, let me look at the next picture, then exhibit number eight. What does that show you.

A

What is the inspector doing at that point? He's getting ready to take a picture? Okay and the.

A

Beer can is still sitting where you originally put it. That's where it is okay and exhibit number nine.

G

What does that show you? Well, he picked the can up and moved it over towards the little girl.

A

The inspector moved the beer can from the location you had it to another location. Yes,.

A

Exhibit number 10.: what does that show you? There he's taking the picture and I think he's got it.

A

Got his hand on it all right, so the beer can is now down in front of the young lady yeah.

A

I'm going to trade exhibit number 11.

A

And it looks like at this point: the inspector is doing what he's taking the picture of the camp.

A

And what has already been introduced by the inspector is this picture he submitted to the.

A

Board showing the beer fan now sitting in front of the young lady, had we not had these? This is all.

A

You just seen this is the only physical evidence we had seen where the gear was. I have a question.

H

In any of those pictures is that can open, it was open, it was open, but it was sitting at the.

A

Back of the bar and as he testified that beer can was in the corner of the barbecue, why was it open.

I

More importantly, when was it? Yes, when was it? When did you open the beer cancer? I set it up. There.

I

Okay, did you have her license in your hand when you brought the beer, can over and opened it? No, I.

I

Did not okay, you got the license. I got our license afterwards, gotcha okay. So when a customer comes in.

H

And they sit at the bar and they order. Let's say they order beer. What's the first thing.

H

That you usually do first thing. I do I ask for identification, if I don't know them and they ring.

G

The bell anybody rings, the bell. Okay, I always ask for her, so you always that's that's! That's your.

H

First process that you always do so, let me ask you a question: why did you put a beer can in front.

H

Of her before you asked for her obviously got to word a little bit. I guess but but that's not your.

H

Process- you don't usually ever do that. I know I shouldn't have done that. It won't happen again.

I

And I'm cancelled through the exhibits. Number four: is it mr wilton, as I pronounce your name.

I

um Exhibit number four: uh have your attorney show you that photograph, please yeah, let me grab it.

I

Yes, I have it, can you show it to mr roten sure, mr rodin, who are you talking to with that photograph.

I

I was talking to rick rose frames. I think his last name and he's the license holder on one of.

A

The license holders at the facility- okay and and how did you come to be talking to rick.

I

Rose after after you set the beard down on the bar in front of them, he wanted to see him.

I

He called you over yeah. He wanted to sing okay.

I

Okay, all right, and um what did he want to see the license for check it? Our age? Did you do that? Yes,.

I

When you checked her age, what was her age? She wasn't going to get served.

I

Okay, but this is, after the beer cans in front of her.

G

Though, okay, the beer can is in front of her.

I

The top is pulled, then you check the age on the license and then rick wanted to check it too. Yeah.

N

H

It depends what more testimony comes, but yeah we'll just see how this rolls out. Mr rosen.

A

Correct me, if I'm wrong.

A

Forget all this other stuff young lady comes in and sits at the bar.

A

What's the first thing you did when she sat at the bar.

A

If I think she's not old enough, no, no, no thinking, no thinking. What's the first thing you did.

A

When she sat at the bar, she told me she wanted to know her life, then what did you do? I got it out.

G

And then I had I that's where I made so you set it on the bar yeah, I'm looking at exhibit number two.

A

Your exhibit number two.

A

You got it yes, young lady, seated at the bar and you're standing in front.

A

Of her with your head down, what are you looking at there her license her license.

A

And is that a beer can sitting in front of yes? I do look to the as you face the.

A

Photograph to your left, how far is it between the young lady and the next patron at the bar.

A

A

Looks like about 10 feet to me.

A

You talking about to the left, so the young ladies left.

J

How far is it between her and the next patron, with the guys back sewer.

G

Three stones, I guess.

A

And how far is the next person to the right? If any, there is a reason.

A

There's nobody right yeah and you set the beer up on the bar. I do before you ask for id.

A

Was it your intention to serve her that beer when you set it on the bar? Well, I was kind of.

A

Taking her word until you had not, you had set clarify this for me. You had set the beer on.

A

The bar before you asked for id is that correct, so it was your intention then, to serve the beer.

A

So when a patron comes in.

A

If I brought my 19 year old, granddaughter in and said at the bar.

A

What would what would be your first, I don't let anybody sit at the board if I think they're not.

G

21., I don't when people come in and they just go and sit at the bar.

A

And I say: they're not 21. I make them move.

A

You shouldn't have said that, because this girl is only 19 and you let her sit at the bar.

I

I do understand council's point about the beer being moved for a better photograph.

I

I did see that uh it did happen.

A

That's the reason I asked how far the next patron was yeah any other questions, mr road, if not.

A

That's what would you like to call another witness? We have no other witnesses just like we heard.

A

You have no other witnesses, have any any other questions.

A

Before we move on no any other comments, spectra benford. Do you have anything? No all right.

A

Testimony in this case is now closed, we'll move into any summation that you may want. Mr mitchell.

A

Yes, I would like to um when originally I got involved in this with the organization. I was not.

A

Aware the fact there has been cameras in there and I understand what the commission is saying.

A

Regarding the open beer, can this is a private organization. The bar attackers know most of the.

A

People that come there, they have a history of open the beer community or they get there to serve them.

A

They do that. That's that's not uncommon to do, but I don't think the statute says anything about.

A

You can't open a beer, can the question is: are you serving someone you either pay? No money was asked.

A

For this case, and he put the beer at the back of the bar- not that in front of this young lady.

A

And also he said, I need to see your license. He hadn't given her that beer yet and the one of the.

A

Licensees sitting there said the same thing. Let me look at her license too. The concurrence was.

A

She doesn't qualify, she has a license that doesn't allow him to be served. He went back to retreat.

A

That beer came from there when inspector told him don't move it, and I guess the question I.

J

Have to ask is if we're saying that service was done by the fear came required. Then the picture.

A

Shouldn't be taken where it was. This has been serviced in this party, not moving the beer camp.

A

From the back of the core down, then taking the picture, I've never seen anything in that kind of.

A

Scenario not at all, you don't do that. The evidence is what it should have been where the beer was.

A

Sitting at the time you put it on the bar without service to the young lady, I don't think it was.

A

And I think the inspector may have thought it was it unless he wouldn't moved it down in front of.

A

Her he moved it down by 12 inches. That's the substantial amount from the back of that bar.

A

So I I don't think he's in violation should you open the beer can probably not but, as I said, the.

A

Statute doesn't say you can't open the beer pan. The question is: did you serve the party? I don't.

A

Think he did serve her and I think the photo's got to prove that out. He asked for her license as he.

A

Came back and set the beer down, he didn't serve her and walked away. He didn't create a tab. He.

A

Didn't answer the money all that was asked at the time. Mr bennett is the commission to consider that.

A

Victor benford, do you have any summation? Yes, um tips and tam training. The first.

D

Thing they do in the training is teach you ask for id before you do anything.

D

You're supposed to ask for id before you bring a beer out, serve the beer and.

D

Council is wrong. He did walk away. He left an open beer came at the bar turn. His back.

D

Onto him talk to our patron, who was drinking to determine if he should serve this person.

A

This time so mason testimony is closed and we will move into the discussion of the merits of the case.

A

A

Unfortunately,.

A

Things like this happen with no intention to break any laws or create ill will or anything like that.

A

And unfortunately, and in most cases I'm not aware of the.

A

Inner workings of the of this particular american leagues and so forth, and many.

A

Times as in all cases today, it's difficult for employees and we have.

A

Maybe some small remuneration for what I would call basically a volunteer.

A

uh In these types of situations,.

A

In my opinion, personal opinion.

A

We talk about a bar being 15 inches wide.

A

We talk about within arm's length, of being able to reach a can.

A

And all of us are going to get old one day. Some of us are already old.

A

And over periods of time we get accustomed to doing things a certain way and so on and so forth.

A

uh Sometimes uh we react a little bit different or don't react as we age and so on and so forth.

A

I personally think.

A

That mr rhoden, as the bartender.

A

Where you have to either be a member of a organization or get rung in uh just like.

A

The vfws and the alps and various other the lyric used to be in hanover and so on and so forth.

A

When you have people that are accustomed to doing things a certain way and and you.

A

Have non-profit organizations that support those who who serve that community or their.

A

Country in any way, and so on and so forth and and I put myself in mr rhoden's place-.

A

Maybe I would do things a little bit different.

A

I think in this case perhaps he reacted uh has been pointed out here. uh This is the way I do.

A

Things and and 99 percent of the time, its members and so on and so forth, particularly at the bar.

A

That he recognizes the bartender would recognize unless it comes not a special event where you've.

A

Got families invited and so forth, but that's the exception rather than than the rule and.

A

I think, in this case the bartender intended to serve.

A

As a reaction to what he normally does.

A

But then, all of a sudden realized hey. This is a stranger in here. This is a young lady.

A

I forgot to ask for id and upon getting the id realized that she was. She was underage.

A

I think his first tip should have been. She said at the bar was: is this person 21? Is she.

A

Old enough to sit at the bar number one before he even considered serving her, but uh it it kind of.

A

Concerns me a little bit.

A

I know it's pretty difficult to to prevent and serve your customers.

A

And your families, and so on and so forth, without getting buzzed in. uh I.

A

I don't buy that the beer was too far away and so on so forth. I just think mr rhoden acted.

A

Reacted rather than act and then all of a sudden realized that hey and at that time.

A

Realized that he shouldn't have put that beer up there and.

A

I can see why he put it up there so with that there are my comments.

I

Mr chairman, I.

I

I agree with your observations, especially once in connection with.

I

Mitigating circumstances, in this case.

I

Force of habit things happen. I understand that and.

I

By the way it looks like the american legion hampshire has an excellent record. Thank you in two.

A

Instances in your fall you'll find where they were tested and they come up perfect. In both cases. The.

A

Record reflects that in that file, as you indicated, these are volunteers. These are people that.

A

Volunteers for for veterans for families, for the community trying to better a lot of these.

A

People just give their own time and effort to make this happen for the betterment of all.

I

I appreciate that councilman and I appreciate what the chairman has said. Equally, um I think.

I

That, legally, there was service here, even if you stretch it to constructive possession.

I

There's a surface but I think, there's actual service, because the beer top was open and the.

I

It was in the reach of of the uh patron, so I think that's actual service legally, but I do agree.

I

Your points, you may counsel about the excellent record that the american legion has, and I agree with the points that mr chair, uh the chairman, has made.

I

Regarding how this was a slip up, yeah and american legions are a little different than.

I

A little different they're a lot different than a lot of places where alcohol is served and things.

I

Can become done by habit because it's a private membership and I I appreciate that.

I

And excellent record: this is the first offense and I would turn to turn the floor over to.

I

Commissioner harmony for his comments, I think uh you've had seven. Is it seven prior checks.

H

To the american legion- and I think they passed all seven of those, it is a private club. I I.

H

Think here maybe you didn't go to the extent of making sure this individual belonged there.

H

And everybody makes mistakes. I agree with both chairman and commissioner.

H

Barnhart, um it was just a mistake and you get you get in the habit of doing certain things and.

H

You slip up here and there everybody does. I mean, there's lots of establishments that come in here.

H

And uh for the same reason, so um with all that said, I think we can make a motion.

H

Chairman, if it's okay with you sure.

H

So I would make a motion uh to find the american legion of hampstead uh culpable.

H

Of uh sail to minor and with a fine of 300 but suspend the 300.

H

How would you feel about that, mr barnhart? That's the mission I would have made so I second your.

I

Motion most has been properly made in second, and that we find the licensee couple assess a three.

A

Hundred dollar fine and suspend the fine due to past history, is there any discussion on the motion.

A

No, no hearing, none all those in favor sigma five is saying: aye aye opposed no so order. Gentlemen.

A

We find you culpable of sales to a minor, assess a fine of three hundred dollars and suspend the fine.

A

Thank you, commissioner. Any other questions, if not.

A

Congratulations on a past record, keep up the good work and all that you do for the community and.

A

Everything that needs to stand with that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your service.

A

With that is 1 15., we are adjourned till 2 o'clock.

A

Ladies and gentlemen, we are reconvening the february meeting of the carroll county.

A

Board of licensed commissioners, our first item of business, mr joe hanson, is here.

A

Mr dave, it appears that you have your establishment has been uh attributed to.

A

Five customers with uh duis during the past year.

A

My question to you is.

A

Without knowing the circumstances, a couple of these.

A

Based upon information that has been provided to us, I guess from the police reports.

A

A

Point 19.16.17 and one refused, and it appears that one of them was right at the.

A

0.08, if you'd like to tell us what you procedures and.

A

Things are to prevent this type of thing.

A

Well, your patrons from leaving uh being uh with too much to drink seems is like, like you're.

A

A regular participant in this discussion well, there's one way to explain that.

P

We've come up with a figure. It is not exactly correct. uh Exactly.

P

You know it's an average, but we've come up with dave. This is on the record right.

A

A

Honesty drive, you got it, man I'll tell you right. There, jackson.

J

Do you know who named that road? Don't you I imagine you did.

P

We've come up with a figure at johansen's, which.

P

Is down under and upstairs approximately 71 318 people a year.

P

And you know the last time we were here you, you know, you guys discussed the rate. The.

P

Compliance yeah compliance rate. Well, you know our compliance rate is point: zero, zero, zero, zero, six.

P

Which is very good for the amount of people to go through, but that being said is that our employees.

P

When we get employees uh you know about, ninety percent of them are damn certified.

P

For the reason, the ten percent is not damn certified because they come and go on such a.

P

Quick uh quick level, uh each employee that serves or bartends signs off on the team they understand.

P

The criminal ramifications, uh there's management in the building every night, till closing.

P

We keep a log, and this is more specific for the police department. uh We keep a log in mischief or.

P

Anything, that's substantial that occurs um that way. We you know we're protecting ourselves and.

P

A lot of things get disputed, but when you write it down.

P

um We don't allow any vaping.

P

In there, because, as we all know now, everybody smokes weed out of your vaping.

P

So we're going to allow that in there and.

P

We refuse service multiple times a week, multiple times these guys and the girls too. They come in so.

P

Banged up from a party or whatever they just can't commit for multiple reasons. One is.

P

They're too intoxicated and number two is they're, not gonna buy anything. So what's that dude, but.

P

That's, what's you know the gallery on me, so we don't want your business if you're not here to.

P

Spend and we don't want your business if you're gonna, if you're falling down you don't need it.

P

So it is a problem.

P

With the pre-gaming and pre-gaming uses what my guys- and I do every morning.

P

Pick up empty bottles and electric bottles, 12 packs of beer or all drinks before you come in.

P

uh So yes, there there's people that sometimes have too much to drink. We've, gotta cut them off.

P

And you gotta tell them you can't you know we try to get it in front of theirs to take them home.

P

But one of the main things I want to explain to you guys.

P

We can be packed downstairs and packed upstairs and those parking lots can be empty.

P

So, what's that tell you, I tell you, it tells you that they're getting their way home.

P

Somewhere somebody's gonna ride in because they ain't driving.

P

You know if they are driving they're parking way away somewhere, but.

P

uh You know we have a right to stay until two o'clock.

P

Rarely we do most of the guys and girls are done.

P

You're not making any money off, you know what I mean and they create problems.

P

P

We're we're down we're open down under three days a week.

P

And there's a couple of reasons for that people aren't coming out like they did lack of employees.

P

We made a decision last week, we're not even going to open the outside.

P

Area this year we don't have any employees. um So I blew a lot of money last year for nothing on that.

N

So it's uh it's just gonna be a parking lot this summer until things get back so.

P

That's about all I have to say I mean I, I think my doorman and I think minecraft.

L

For the volume people to go through there.

A

Inspector benford, the report that you gave us all the way on the far right. Yes, is that.

D

Male female far right is, is the police department, westminster police department, and you know.

I

And then u m is unknown unknown. Okay, they didn't put down.

I

Hey dave: is there a number where someone gets cut off.

P

It's more, we go by what maryland rules say: it's visible visible. You can't.

P

You just can't start counting it's crazy yeah, some licensees. Do I'm just that's what I'm just asking.

P

Because you've got enough things to do.

P

Behind the bar waiting on tables, picking up food to be running around with a calculator.

P

That doesn't work that way. It's it's all visible. We go by what the normal state rules are.

P

Slurred speech, you know stumbling acting stupid loud then you just got to say you say maryland.

I

State rules: we talk about state law, yeah, okay, you're talking about visibly intoxicated yeah.

Q

There's a couple questions good, there's a couple other things that I try to do.

Q

I do do on a weekly basis named sarah redding address 815 mountain view, drive westminster.

Q

There's a few other things that I do on a weekly basis, especially when down under is open.

Q

We have an elevator in the building. I make sure that I am sitting right where I can see the front.

Q

Door, the elevator and the entire bar. I also will lock down the elevator upon any kind of suspicious.

Q

Young young people trying to get downstairs people going up and down stairs with alcoholic drinks.

Q

That way, we can monitor them going in and out the front door instead of having them.

Q

Ride up and down the elevator we also close down under at 1 am and not 2 am.

Q

Now upstairs will stay open a little longer. We usually have more of a docile crowd, a regular.

Q

Crowd an older crowd, but when down under closes, we they they start to come up. They usually always ask.

Q

For water and then, if anything, looks suspicious, I will call last call and we'll shut it down.

A

I haven't been down under for up team time. Is it mostly beer sales down under.

Q

Beer sales. For the most part we go through a lot of canned beer, yes, mcglobe blight.

Q

Or yeah, I'm sorry nick loop ultra horse light bud light miller life. We don't have any craft.

Q

Brews downstairs nothing very you don't do any craft brewing anymore. Just our house, beers.

Q

Which are also very low in alcohol content clientele down there.

H

What are your house beers, like four percent, uh they usually range about four.

Q

Seven to five two: we just put a new one on it's 5-2, it's a quarter, but that's not downstairs.

A

Well, we appreciate you coming in, uh as you know, you're here.

A

For various reasons, support and so on so forth and other things at various times. It's always.

A

Good to see you, but we just thought that maybe you could enlighten us a little bit.

A

Of knowing, but as you pointed out, if you have over 70 000 patrons a year and.

A

As far as this report shows, it's only five, it's a kind of minuscule, but we are concerned even if.

A

It was only one, so it's like some other things that liquor licensee per se are responsible, but.

A

Do everything they can to prevent things from happening and so on and so forth, but.

A

Mistakes are made, and sometimes things.

A

A

We just wanted to hear what you had to say again and you have, as testimony would show.

A

In past years, as you just mentioned,.

A

Take corrective action whenever something is called to your attention and.

A

Try to do the right thing all the time, and you certainly appreciate that. So if.

A

My colleagues don't have any further questions.

A

Thank you very much. Good luck! Thank you. Thank you. One of the things I wanted to add is that.

P

We do have signs when you come down, because it's got to be a problem like when we empty the trash.

P

And all so, we do have a sinuses first. Is we don't have any knapsacks in their backpacks.

P

But they're girls purses, we have subject to search and we know who the ones.

A

Who does the searching.

A

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

P

Thanks, god bless you.

H

A

Okay, frankie's bar and grill.

A

In downtown new windsor, I think it yes.

A

Unfortunately, we have several reported dui cases.

A

During the past year,.

A

0.14 and the third one was refused.

A

February of 21 and 2 and august 2 the same night.

A

What do you all do to.

A

Detract from over indulging at frankie's bar and grill.

R

We have our bartenders are all tip certified, we're on the premises. Almost all the time.

J

We have two different camera systems there. You know we walk through.

R

We go over stuff with bartenders, the new bartenders, you know, go online and they take.

R

Even before they're certified or go in to do their proctor on their test.

R

The tip certification, with all the information in there we are available all the time through.

R

You know either a phone call or a text, and there is always somebody.

R

That is vested in frankie's. That is there at all times, and I mean, like you know, a family member.

R

I have two family members that work there, so you know we try to make it. You know very personal to.

R

Them that everybody's doing everything that they can do, please state your demon address. I'm sorry.

A

Betty windsor 106 main street new windsor maryland two one, seven, seven, six. Thank you.

I

So winter, what are your hours? We open from 12 p.m, to 2 a.m, depending on volume.

R

Monday through saturday and sunday to 1am.

A

Did you say twelve until two or twelve to one twelve to two.

R

Everything but sunday and sunday is 12 to 1.

H

Have you refused anybody before absolutely? How often do you do that.

R

It depends on you know, like sometimes we'll go three weeks and people will come in and they'll.

R

They'll, be, do you mean refuse service period at all, refuse serving alcohol to somebody like.

R

After they uh not real, clear like after they've been there and they've started to drink, and they.

R

Look like you know, maybe yeah they need to slow down or are you talking about? Somebody comes in.

R

Intoxicated no, if they come in drinking and uh you decided they have too many too many drinks.

R

Glass of water off I'll feed them for free just to.

G

You know like right next to a firehouse, so that whistle goes all kind of rattles. Your gauge.

A

So what you just said in response to the question is.

A

You refuse somebody that comes in. That appears to be intoxicated.

A

Absolutely at what point do you refuse service to an existing patron.

R

If their drink count is getting up, which you know we try to keep it down, you know.

R

Depending on how long they've been there, if they have like two drinks,.

R

Or so within an hour you know we try to slow them up I'll tell them. You know.

R

Wait on other customers, you know, get ignore them a little bit. You know we'll tell them you.

R

Know if you sit here a while when you drink, you know some water, then you know we'll reevaluate.

R

If they're slurring, if they are stumbling or anything, because we too have the problems just.

R

Like mr johansen was talking about, customers, don't always get the alcohol that they drank.

R

On our premises, we'll be able to park a lot across the street state, your name and address from the.

A

Record frank, windsor, 106 main street, doing server. Thank you. We live on the premises so we're there.

R

95 of the time.

A

You, sir- and this is a general question: do you serve more alcohol? Do you have a bar I've been.

A

In there for a while, so I can't remember what it looks like do. You have a bar? Yes, how many seats.

R

Around the actual bar itself, there's 16 stools there 15 16.. Do you serve more alcohol at the bar.

A

Than you do at tables, would you say or not it's probably about the same.

R

um Can I just say that on this the dwi, the number one that is on the february 21st and the one the.

R

One on february 21st, I actually my she was being very mean and nasty to the bartenders.

R

And they had told me this and I went out and observed. I was running a pool tournament for.

R

A fundraiser that we were having so I I went out and I actually cut her off myself.

R

She was afforded a sober ride home her and her car were, you know, taken to her house and left.

R

And she drove back, she was not allowed to come in.

R

And when she left that's when she got her dwi.

I

She did you the kindness of identifying your place as a source of her drinks. Yes, she.

M

For the middle of her night, she left probably an hour and going back and she was hammered up.

H

Yeah, so she banned now yeah. She wanted to fight me on the way out the door, because I did I cut.

R

Oh yeah she'll never come in there again. You can't make you can't want to fight me. Come back yeah.

M

Yeah give her keys to your bartender and she thought she could drink all she wanted. That's.

R

Don't work like that, that's mostly what she was mad about when I told her it didn't work like that.

R

She has some other ideas, but her car were delivered to her house.

R

You know and I believe that's in the police report and she came back. I think.

P

But she, I think she told them she came back in, but she did not. She was met in the parking lot.

R

I didn't even really know she came back until way later and she was met in the.

R

Parking lot and told she was not allowed back on the premises or inside the establishment.

R

And number um three.

R

R

She stopped on the way home, and I know this because.

R

One of our bartenders lives in the apartment building where she stopped.

R

And she was drinking there before.

H

We do understand that some of these are falsified as far as when they tell the police.

H

Where they came from.

A

There's some other questions. Thank you very much for coming in and explaining to us what you do.

A

To prevent these type of things and answer any questions that we have on this report, so.

A

With that, unless you have any questions for us you're excused.

A

We appreciate you coming in. Thank you. We appreciate it bless you. Thank you.

A

Well, I think it's fair to uh warn you that.

A

Mr samuels, you were mentioned at the earlier hearing here today.

A

Whether it's good or bad or not, you have to check the tape. The remains.

S

Requests from darren barnes to be allowed to deliver alcohol from.

A

Gambler liquors college square, liquors and house of liquors and requests.

T

Yeah um so we had discussed this at a previous business, meaning.

T

um I'm just I'm assuming I'm going to need to put the request in writing at some point, but I was.

T

Trying to get clarifications exactly state your name in heaven, I'm sorry. It's uh darren, barnes.

T

813 snowfall way westminster 21157.

T

So I'm coming back to formally request and then get instruction on how to request formally for.

T

Each location primarily um house of liquors over the years- that's one reason I asked pete, maybe.

T

Coffee could because he has more recollection of all the different rule, changes and stuff and.

T

I wanted to maybe try to do some research on how all this is going down, because.

T

I'm kind of confused as to what I'm allowed to do, especially once mr benford sent that email so.

T

Because, over the years we don't we haven't done at house liquors, which is the longest I've been.

T

Here, 30 years we've we have um as far as I know from time to time, we've had permission, so I don't.

T

Know it's in my file. I looked through my records. I couldn't find it, but anyway we we don't per se.

T

Want to do delivery, you know when you call up and send a six-pack of beer like a pizza delivery. We.

T

We really have a lot of um clients, especially over 30 years, that they do weddings and wedding venues.

T

And the customer themselves whoever's doing the wedding they get referred to us and we.

T

Will help them build their order like how much they want? You know what they're going to need. We.

T

Offer that as kind of a service and a lot of times with it's, it's mainly weddings, there's.

T

A couple other places that we've been asked to deliver and have delivered over the years like.

T

You know some um assisted living homes like to have you know private parties, you know they're, you.

T

Know it's heavy stuff like they usually get the bag in a box, wines and stuff like that. So anyway,.

T

um We get referred that, and especially in the springtime it's a lot. We get a lot of referrals.

T

And one of their biggest things is it's their wedding day and stuff like that on a saturday and.

T

You know one of the big conveniences, is they and it's you know they don't really have the time or.

T

Want to come get it so they want us to bring it to them. So that's kind of. Basically, all we want to do.

T

And that goes across the board. You know: gamber. We've only had one request down that way, but.

T

It's um you know, there's a wedding venue down that way. It's asked us a few times. You know we're just.

T

Trying to get clarification and and as to how to do it, if we can do it and ask permission to do it.

A

So if if in fact, you had permission to do it.

A

The delivery of uh that's, in effect now by our rules for restaurants and so on and so forth, for.

A

Ex drinks requires a minimum amount of food delivered along with with the drinks. So if.

T

Well, that isn't that for enough open drink it is but yeah. But let me know: okay.

A

A

What the minimum is food along with drinks, and I think we only have three that do it.

A

And probably one of the three indicates that uh the last time he was in here, probably the.

A

One that delivers the most said that the past month and a half he made one delivery.

A

My point being, if you were able to deliver.

A

There probably should be a minimum order in order for you to be able allowed to be delivered.

A

Oh, we definitely have a minimum. The reason I say that if you usually it's a hundred dollars.

J

It's a dollar of value, but it's I don't have a case on it, but I mean I'm not gonna. It's not.

T

It's not cost effective. I mean to be honest on a 30 pack of beer, we make two two three dollars.

A

So to deliver even two of those, it's not worth it. That's my point being this: if.

A

You have a fifty dollar limit or something like minimum women or something like that.

A

I have liquor, for I don't know when, but I see your ad in the paper every now and then you're talking.

A

About two bottles of vo or something like that for 50 bucks, and I don't think it would be profitable.

A

For that to happen, and I appreciate what what our earlier discussion was- and you just pointed.

A

Out here is the special events that pays you to do it well, typically, I charge to do it. I mean.

T

Even even on even on a 500 order, it's not even worth me taking my time.

T

You know number one I gotta I gotta, I gotta have one of my staff members leave the premises.

T

So I have to plan for that to typically have to bring another staff member in which is.

T

In these day in age, 15 16 an hour and if it takes an hour to two hours of delivery, that's 30.

T

Right there and then I got to use gas to go, deliver it and come back.

T

And um so it's usually at least a 50 charge. Unless we work something out, you know they're.

T

Buying you know, they're spending a certain amount and you know we don't allow returns or whatever.

T

So so so what you're saying is as an example, let's say: okay, you can't deliver.

A

Unless it's a hundred dollars or more and you have a delivery form just like the current requirements.

A

For those that can deliver open drinks so and so forth, that's completed for each delivery. Oh.

T

Yeah we could fill out a delivery form. I think I don't do it at the restaurant. We don't deliver, but.

T

You're saying we didn't, you have a log form you're, suggesting a log form, and then we just keep it.

T

With the orders and keep it verified, where it's delivered the time it's delivered, who delivers it.

A

And who signs for it? Who it's delivered to to certify that they're, 21 or older.

A

It's a very it's, not it's a full page, so it's very simple.

T

Yeah, if you get us or if we you provide us with a form or if you want me to print a form up, I can.

T

Give you a form we got the forms that we use now we're just exploring possibly yeah possible ways.

A

To address your your desire here and uh that's one of them, I think, with the chairman's asking is.

I

In your mind, where's the cutoff, how much I think a hundred dollars is a good number.

T

But um that's up to you, but I mean for for for my purposes yeah I mean everybody's different.

T

But I mean I don't think a hundred dollars is a problem I would not deliver and I don't think I.

T

Have maybe, in 30 years one or two times delivered something? That's under a hundred dollars? You know.

T

Like one almost to an older lady on uniontown road, one time she was house bound and begged me.

T

To bring it to her, so I did yeah, you know, but um that's you know, that's not something. We do.

T

That was just a courtesy on my way: home type thing: okay, but um but generally for events, you have.

I

Definitely a lot that you're delivering yep. Okay, I would say: there's a work of.

T

Four 700 is what they average dollars, so yeah, so you're happy delivering that.

I

Amount of product yeah- that's all we want to do it's just mainly really it's a service because.

T

Let's face it, they probably would buy it, but I mean we set ourselves apart too, because.

T

I mean I feel like we do go above and beyond. That's why they call us. You know they say how.

T

Many people are you having 200 all right, we figure out per drinks per person. How much wine.

T

How much liquor, how much we do a service that way to save the money, so they don't overbuy.

T

um And stuff, like that, you know I don't want to have to deliver way more than what they're going.

T

To need and number two they don't want to spend more and then you know we'll give them a discount.

T

Based on volume, but we will also curiosity, let's say it's a it's high school graduation weekend.

I

And you get a call from an address for like four hundred dollars of.

I

Booze and there's a 21 year old who's signing for it comfortable. No, no. We wouldn't do that that we.

T

Would there's never been a time when somebody called there and we delivered an information.

T

Oh, but never there's never a time when somebody just calls us and asks for a delivery. We would.

T

Take it: okay, okay, no we're not into that! We wouldn't do it. We would not do it. There.

T

Would there would be these are all pre-arranged deliveries? Okay, yeah, so your objective is is just.

H

You want to deliver to special venues: correct, not individual people at houses right exactly.

S

Any other questions, no, I don't know.

A

Pete, you want to add anything. Identify yourself examine is 152 east main street westminster.

U

And the only thing I'd add is these: are business people they're not going to do something that they.

U

Lose money on and basically I think we get a weight chief too much and and worry about.

U

What's going to be live or wherever there's no money in delivering in his end of the business.

U

A case of beer or even a single bottle of liquor to an address it just it doesn't make any sense.

U

Yeah, maybe a pizza place where they're getting a pizza delivery or a food delivery and then.

U

They want to add some beer to it. They might be able to make money on it because they're.

U

They're not paying the driver to drive and probably gets his pay off the tips. So I I just.

U

It's just something that would almost self-police itself. You know at a class a level um so you're, no.

A

You don't want no third parties involved here.

T

Like everybody, like, I understand like well, most of my people are tam certified, but obviously we.

T

Would only send somebody, that's damn certified and typically handling that much it's usually would be.

T

Myself or one of my managers or assistant managers um and if we took anyone else, we might take a.

T

Helper with us, because if you need a hand truck to take it off the truck and a lot of times, I.

T

I'd say I'd say the times we have done it and we've charged most of the money that we.

T

Charge goes to the person. I give it to the delivery guy. You know number two. You have.

J

You know you have to think about when you get into pizza delivery and everything you got all.

T

The liability, if you're running cars around that's a whole nother insurance situation.

T

So I I typically like I have a company vehicle I'd rather just take it in that and deal with that.

T

I'm not gonna have like you know some young kid like a pizza place, hey hey,.

T

Here's your delivery, here's delivery! That's not anything like what we want to do at all.

T

I'd rather have them come into the store for that you can check them there. I would suggest.

A

Gentlemen, ladies correct me, if I'm wrong that, if you make a formal written request,.

A

And just briefly in that request indicate what you intend to do.

A

A

Me personally, okay, would ask in that request that you comment.

A

Just what you did here today and and indicate that uh a bottom figure hundred dollars as an example.

A

um We we, we would have something to go on and take a take official action. Okay, we'll do I'll.

T

Give it to you, that's that I also like your. I also like your point about pre-arranged yeah.

T

I'll mention that in there pre-arranged delivery to a certain destination.

T

And we'll get the document signed by an ovah person. Yeah I mean there's been some apps. You.

I

Know are being developed personally and yeah so we're that may be the wave of the future. But I'm.

T

Not there yet and number two, I'm not really into it. It's a whole nother line of business.

T

Yeah, that's a that's! A really an urban, more urban shiny thing type thing than it would be out here.

T

Yeah we've had a request for it out here and uh yeah I mean county. Has it yeah it's coming.

U

Those services aren't cheap people who use those. You know they got plenty of.

U

Money, I guess, there's young, what's like door dash for liquor. Well, it's not like that. What.

I

I'm talking about is you order and then the liquor store brings it to you right on an app.

T

That's uh but you have to pay the uh you still pay it per serving first service to them. There's.

T

A charge: well, I'm sure that you get a six-pack. I'm gonna cost you twenty dollars, I'm sure they charge.

G

You probably yeah yeah, it has to be because they take part of your money.

T

So but I'm not that's not what I'm requesting and we prefer you just not allow it.

U

Yeah, as far as that's whoever requests it's not going to hear that, but I'm not for it person.

A

Okay, unless there's any other comments or anything pete you you were referred to you, you were used as.

A

A reference- and I asked the young lady, how she knew, how she knew feet and she went back pink.

A

To about this size, that's been a while ago, a long time.

A

A

Superfoods, cafe wants to be allowed to sell beer and wine for carryout.

K

That's correct, sir, and why do you want to sell beer and wine, and what do you expect.

A

To gain from that, well we're hoping to increase our revenue right now. They have to stay on the.

K

Premises to consume the wine or beer and, of course, with cobit a lot of folks, don't want to come out.

K

Like they were prior to covet- and I feel this would definitely help our business put- that in.

K

Darlene union 320 hideaway drive westminster. Thank you so much union. um You you uh deal in local.

I

Product and kind of boutique type of right right, correct: okay! Yes, we're a vegetarian cafe right.

K

uh We do more oil vegetarian. I know it's no meat, yes, you're talking to a cattle man in front of you.

A

Hey, I found out a lot of things about protein and vegetarian ain't. What you think it is go.

K

Ahead, that's got enough juice, yeah, that's we're kind of a combo. We do have it's a vegetarian.

K

Cafe we do a lot of smoothies smoothie bowls that type of things, but you have to proud.

K

But we also have a dining area that has a bar and what we were hoping to do is have like a paint.

K

Night for the ladies to come out, they can drink wine, while they're painting with their friends.

K

Have like event nights, but we also have customers that come in sometimes like business.

K

Lunches or maybe later on in the afternoon, they can enjoy a glass of wine or have beer.

K

But we also get requests that they want to take it as a carryout like they want to purchase it.

K

Unopened to take it home for dinner or whatever, and we're only allowed to serve on the premises.

A

Right you're asking you're asking for takeout: not delivery, not no delivery at all. We don't deliver.

K

Our food, even it's all, they have to come to the store and it'll just be the product you have in.

I

Your store, which is correct, like bottled wine, I don't see a can of beer going out.

K

But I sell a bottle of wine. Folks may want to take it home for dinner or a gift or something.

I

What's good since you're offering a product that.

I

It's kind of unique, and I guess it has that boutique feel to it.

I

I'll just mention to the word that I I certainly have no objection to it. You're not competing with.

I

Class, a stat, liquor stores or anything else yeah we actually are closing at 5 p.m. Right now,.

K

um In the summer time, we'll probably save until uh seven, possibly eight o'clock but.

K

It's a very small town, it's not geared! We don't get that type of crowd. Where's your store located.

K

It's in mount airy, the downtown main street, and we want to be respectful for our neighbors or.

K

Apartments above us, so we don't want to be. You know, interfering with their life.

A

And they have to fill out a form right. They do not have to fill out a form.

D

Steve establishments are at the discretionary board for carryout and if you give a permission.

D

Just like any other restaurant just sell carryout, let's click your class d.

J

Correct which, which is like the other guy down yesterday, I don't have objection to them.

A

No objection for us. Congratulations, good work! Thank you so much. We wish you much more.

K

Success: okay. Thank you very much we're here. We issue a new license. Thank you.

A

A

Sanjay patel.

A

Gentlemen, come up here, pull those microphones in front of you and before you have anything to stay.

A

State your name and address for the record and spell your last name, please, hello, hello. This is.

S

Good afternoon my name is yogesh patel last name is patel patel and I live in 2105 scarlett, where.

S

Mount airy maryland two one, seven, seven one is that carroll county or frederick carroll county.

A

Okay, gentlemen, says here: you wanna, explain uh your plans to purchase a class, a liquor, establishment.

A

In mount airy, what what are you going to tell us? Do I have to press the button on it? No, no.

O

Okay, all right, so we are interested in purchasing that uh facilities, carroll, county liquor.

O

Initially was thinking about relocating, but it's it's tough to find the place in monterey.

O

So we decide to, we will stay and uh renew the lease at that place, so we just need to learn the.

O

Requirements from the cal county board to be a licensee. So if I understand you.

A

Correct you're purchasing an existing class, a establishment, correct, and you intend to.

A

Continue the business there correct, okay and who owns it now: uh the red sneaker, I think last, I'm.

O

Not sure the last name is patella as well. I believe yeah, yes, yeah, no relation. I'm sorry.

S

No relationship, no, no, no, no relationship! It's a very common last name, yeah yeah. This is this- is.

I

The same story, you had the uh the interesting uh underage sales, 2008 jails. Yes, the pharmacist.

I

Who owned it? Yes, this is carol liquor stores. Yes, okay also had before that we had the wine.

D

Between carrolltown and carol lickers also, that was a different owner. So what what you're saying.

A

Is not quite exactly what I understood at the beginning and that's it's changed since we talked.

D

On the phone, because you were looking to move it right, the initially I was thinking to.

O

Purchase the license and submit it to the leaker board to hold it until we find the better location.

O

Those initial conversations, but but you're here before us today, not to do that, but to want to make.

A

An application for liquor license purchasing an existing license. Correct okay is that.

N

Is that true, yes, is that true yeah? If that's the case, you need to talk to our staff and.

A

They will provide you with the application and what procedures you have to go through.

N

And before you came back to trip before you come back to transfer the license, you've got a lot of.

A

Things to accomplish the health department, the state license taxation, all kinds of things right.

A

Background checks and so on and so forth and come back to us for another hearing. It was not quite.

A

Explained the way that that we thought that's and you've changed your mind since then, and you're.

I

Not quite buying a license uh twice, foreign yeah. What the chairman's talking about is is.

I

Someone transferring it to you all right, we grant licenses, we don't really sell licenses right. Okay,.

J

Okay, uh just only one of the questionnaires, uh what's uh is the requires of cal county.

O

Residents to be under license where he has to be maryland uh residents here with county california,.

C

One person and how many people can be on the license three.

O

Three people can be on the license. Okay, is this going to be a corporation llc or llc llc.

I

Well, I missed joe vance uh uh very helpful alumnus lines and inspector keith benford can also answer.

O

Lots of questions as well; okay, that was good all right. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay, if you.

A

Make arrangements to meet with them and I'm sure they'll head you on the right track.

A

We'll just hang tight sure all right. Okay, good luck! Thank you for stopping by.

A

Okay, let's start at the head of the business approval of minutes from january 12th, which.

A

You all receive should have received plus you haven't, I guess you'll go.

A

In front of you any corrections or additions, I didn't see them.

A

No corrections or editions uh they'll be approved as presented under new business. I think.

A

Commissioner, harming has a thank you letter from sue, ann tabler and I'm sure you're all aware that.

A

Bob passed away a couple weeks ago and we set a floral arrangements with arrangement which.

A

Was quite nice, and so at this point I guess need to discuss if we want.

C

To make a charitable donation to one of the places mentioned.

A

I attended the funeral home solar.

I

Did did nice job picking that up.

A

And since uh she was able to arrange for that purchase, thank you very much.

A

Not only for your personal contribution.

A

And this is just me and I probably shouldn't say anything because I belong, but I I would suggest.

A

Maybe if we could make a 100 donation to shrine or crippled children, that's my personal opinion.

A

Yeah, okay, so.

A

If that's agreeable take a collection, I guess, huh let's see, there's eighty dollars sitting out there.

A

The five of us up here putting another fight out.

A

Jim, you didn't know that, did you I'm learning about a minute? Okay, so well,.

A

That's what we'll do we received a letter from steve, tedemon resigning.

A

From the green turtle of westminster's liquor license and uh because he has.

A

Moved west to garrett county, I think yeah with a very nice letter that I received a copy of that he.

A

Appreciated working with everybody, and especially joe for all the advice and help that she has given.

A

Him over the years he's still going to maintain an office in baltimore, but apparently his wife.

A

Is on staff or something at frostburg state college and they purchased a home up there.

I

So, mr chair and I knew that we send this letter to human resources to be put in joe's.

D

A little file in that one, what what your day stay short sorry, he hasn't already ours.

I

She's my supervisor, okay, I want to pass that out once you pointed it out to me.

A

Well, we'll go through the next items until it has already been forwarded. What is this.

A

We have a request from the city of westminster: god bless the city of westminster.

A

For march 12th, a celtic cantor and ice festival april 23rd wine stroll.

A

June 18th, beer and barbecue stroll and october 8th, another oyster stroll. Is there any objection to.

A

Issuing those one-day license, no, if not, they would be approved.

A

Perhaps jim, maybe you could uh help out attending the barbecue stroll and so on and so forth and.

A

Instead of certain other people, uh why why does he get the warm one.

A

I think you guys should get the march 12th one.

A

We don't want to scare him away.

A

Well, you couldn't, you could join a band and play in the st.

A

Patrick's day parade in baltimore city when it's cold, like it was a couple weeks ago,.

A

And it ain't fun requests from raphael's to be able to participate in the strolls.

A

That we just mentioned uh three of the dates are there by allowing his patrons to exit his establishment with drinks and paper cups.

I

Keith had explained to me that.

I

During those events, the city gives you bands uh that each establishment, who we grant permission to.

I

Checks those bands before they give them a paper cup, turning to exit the premises.

I

And keith says that he and I believe him says that he uh emphasizes that uh from.

I

All licensees who request it and when the request is granted soon, so I'm comfortable, you know, keep.

I

You know tell everybody what I mean because usually 84 east main applies. Johansen applies.

D

um A lawyer applies to the oyster stroll.

D

So we see some more of these required. I have no objections, but I have a question.

A

Raphael was the owner an operator, john sierra, but he's not the licensee.

A

Should not the licensee apply for these things? Yes, I agree with that.

D

In the past, we haven't requested a license. Well, that's what I'm getting around to what what right.

D

I mean just I'm just talking about what we've done in the past. Well, I had another last minute.

C

Edition handed to me when they came for their session and it's from johansens.

C

To participate and it's from sarah redding, not dave. Well, that's that's my point being.

A

We tell the licensee they're responsible for everything that happens.

A

And 98 of time they don't know what the heck's going on so.

H

That's the reason I asked a question. I don't think this time. I don't think in.

H

The past we had that as a condition to apply, though, for these things there were lots of.

H

People that applied with letters that were not licensees and we approved them, I'm not I'm not.

A

It's just a matter, I think, when we make a charge against a licensee, they ought to be here.

A

Which I've requested- and of course they can't be for today, because she's in italy. But my point.

A

Being that they don't know what's going on, but they're on that license agree with you dave. I I.

I

Think we ought to, I know what we've done in the past, but I just well, if we're going to do that.

A

We're going to do that to everybody I agree 100. I think we have to tighten a little bit.

A

So responding to people that this needs to come from your licensing, so are we going to.

H

Use that for the next time or well, I would say so since yeah I mean not now it's too late, yeah.

A

For the next time, maybe we should put it in the newsletter.

A

That would be good. All requests must come from the licensee because in his testimony the fatalities.

B

Guy he said when his mother bought the house in westminster. That made him think that she's going.

B

To be coming back to the county right because you know it might have been in his mind that maybe she.

B

Wasn't coming back so yeah, he probably didn't know so yeah. I kind of feel that maybe we should.

I

Start to require a little bit more of our licensees. Rather, you know, maybe not always.

I

Be figureheads uh and not know, what's going on and the premises that they hold the license for I.

I

Think that's popped up a few times a lot of times. They just pick a licensee just because they need a.

H

Licensee and the licensee doesn't know anything about the business. The resident licensing right.

I

Well, I I think that any anyone we issue a license to should be involved in the business, because.

I

They're legally responsible uh and- and they should they have a legal responsibility to us.

I

To be involved in the business, and I think that we should agree going forward.

I

um Be cognizant that there are some cases where the licensee.

I

Is a figurehead, that's come as absent! That's why I was wondering about.

I

The hearing whether um the licensee was overseas for an extended period of time.

I

I think that presents us with an issue to think about. It. Does.

A

So going forward, if I get a request I'll, if it's.

C

Not from the licensee I'll send it back and say this has to be from your license.

I

Yeah, I guess I can point to the rule. We have a rule that requires a licensee to appear unless.

I

Excused so it's already kind of a some precedent that we place emphasis on the licensees being.

I

Involved in our proceedings- and we have excused some out of state corporate people- yes right in.

A

The past but they've had representatives here as well as the residents and there's another thing. A.

I

Licensee can't appear, but they they're represented by an attorney right that changes things legally.

I

As well, I think the attorney is the agent of the licensee, whereas general manager may not.

I

May not have the legal uh ability to agree to anything that the board wants to do. Just I mean.

I

It's just a thought. You know in retrospect from the case today, if you look back in the history.

A

Ever since they opened up until the past three or four years, there was no problem.

A

Now something changed somewhere along the line, in my opinion, but I don't know.

A

Well, I have one other last minute submission you can talk to him about this, not to send it on the.

N

Morning, I'm sorry you're pointing at me, but it's from the vine on me.

D

And this is from my cousin vinnie. You need raphael.

A

A

What does cousin vinnie want to? Do? I don't know you don't know, okay, they just want permission.

N

To do the outdoor the outdoor seating for the music nights again, I thought I thought.

A

They already did that we did, I think.

J

Because the distillery sent something in and uh and she was added as a last pair yeah.

A

Anyway, is there any objections, there's no objections, but you.

I

Remember how I said is that triangle the footprint yeah.

H

H

David's marketing, family yeah, but.

C

But I'll trust you to talk to cousin benny about more timely, yes, okay,.

I

She kind of figures: this is my birthday to slide through.

I

A

I

According to my list here, that's all the business that we have.

A

Other than the announcements, any other old business new business, without that we will.

A

Adjourn this meeting until wednesday march, the 9th at 10 am. This meeting is adjourned.

A