Carroll County, MD Board of License Commissioners, 9 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: Board of License Commissioners March 9, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/board-of-license-commissioners-liquor-board/

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Ladies and gentlemen, we will call this meeting of the board of licensed commissioners of.

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Carroll county, to order it's been customary for many years that we begin our meetings with the.

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Pledge to the flag and observe a moment of silence, memory of all those who have.

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Sacrificed for our freedoms in this country, it is strictly voluntary. Mr barnhart.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to.

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The republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Thank you, you may be seated.

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But this time I would ask our attorney mr dixon, if he will call our first.

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Case at 10 a.m case 6375, please all right, 6375, an application to change the resident.

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Licensee from timothy catrocco to courtney, whitbecker for class bc, beer, one and liquor.

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License with catering to be issued to courtney, woodbecker colleen m hunter lindsay alcorn.

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For the use of og of westminster, inc trading as the olive garden italian, restaurant, 500, gorsuch.

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Road westminster, maryland 21157 alex in election district 7. and to follow this matter. We have.

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Notice of public hearing uh dated february 25th 2022.

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Notice, the public hearing for this case dated february 18th 2022. a february 10.

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2022 letter from jovans to timothy catrocco, colleen hunter and lindsay corn.

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A january 10 2022 letter a similar letter is postponed. This is january 7 2022 letter from.

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Leanne schreckengass to joe vance and the board of licensed commissioners.

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And then there's an application and the application includes character. References.

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Driving record.

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Stock sheets criminal background information, corporate information stock, said stock sheets and.

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Workers, comp insurance and corporate information, I would ask that the file be entered into evidence.

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We'll accept that into evidence this time. I would ask all those who intend to testify.

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In this case, to please stand, raise your right hand and be sworn in by miss vance.

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Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to get.

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Is the truth, the whole truth is you.

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Good morning, good morning, leanne schreckengast, with royston miller,.

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Mclean and reed here on behalf of the olive garden, did you say that three times real fast.

D

Thank you. Thank you. Please proceed. Thank you very much. As ms vance indicated or mr duncan dixon,.

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Sorry we're here for a change of uh resident agent. Timothy catreco is moving out of the.

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County and will no longer qualify as a resident agent, so courtney whitbecker, who is a long time.

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Carroll county resident is taking his place on the license. So if it's okay with the board, I'd like to.

D

Go ahead and qualify miss whitbecker as a man. Please do. Could you please state your full name.

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And address for the record sure it's courtney, ann robbins, rebecca and my address is 4705 old hanover.

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Road and that's westminster, maryland 2015., and how long have you been a carroll county resident.

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Has any of your personal information changed since we filed this application? No felony convictions.

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Or violations of the alcoholic beverage laws or gambling laws, and could you please tell the.

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Board what your role is with darden restaurants, the parent company of olive garden, yeah, I'm a.

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General manager, and how long have you been with darden since 2006. and you're, also an assistant.

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Secretary of og of westminster, inc, correct this man and a 27 shareholder in that entity.

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And you understand that, as a license holder, you would have to answer this board. Should any violations occur at this restaurant? Yes, you agree to accept those responsibilities. Yes, ma'am.

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Are you financially interested in any other place of business in carroll, county.

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I'll turn it over the board for any questions you may have of miss woodpecker.

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Gentlemen, do you have any questions of this quarter, not at this time? No, not at this time. Thank.

D

You very much with that I'd like to introduce you to her character witnesses if that's okay,.

D

Yes, ma'am, if you guys take a hold of the base of those mics and pull them closer too.

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Don't be afraid if, if you have children just act like you, they do, they were just discussing.

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Children could you christie, could you just go ahead and say your full name for the record.

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My name is christine rebecca holman. My address is 1786 upper ford, lane hampstead, maryland 21074 and.

D

How long have you been a carroll county resident um pretty much my whole life and how long have.

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You known ms whitbecker since 2006, and would you agree that she's a fit and proper person.

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To hold a liquor license, yes, thank you very much. Does the board have any questions of miss holman.

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No questions at this time amber your turn. Could you please state your name and address for the.

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Record sure it's amber anthony rhoden and my address is 4708 warner drive and that's.

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In manchester maryland 21102 and how long have you been a carroll county resident since 2008.

G

And how long have you known ms whitbecker 2008, and could you please tell the board whether or not you.

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Agree, she's a fit and proper person to hold a liquor license. I do thank you very much. I have.

D

No further questions at this time. I would turn it over to the board any questions. Ms whitbaker, what.

H

Percentage of interest, do you have in it in this? I think it's 26, it's 27 27 27. Thank you.

A

I'm sorry, I missed your your address westminster. Yes, four, seven, zero, five.

H

Endless with beggar how long? How many years have you been working with olive garden since 2006.

H

Are you aware of any violations that they've had in the past.

H

I believe they've had two sale and minor violations uh 2019. If I'm and correct me, if.

H

I'm incorrect, um I don't have that. I don't have the four in front of me. I can tell you, you are.

D

Correct it's 2019 and 2021.. Okay, that is accurate. I'm sorry! She did tell me that my apologies.

A

Did did I understand you'd, say you're assistant manager or senator manager.

D

Let me what location are you a general manager for? Oh I'm, sorry in hanover pennsylvania,.

D

You've previously worked at this westminster location, correct, correct and you are in.

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Constant contact with the general manager of this location- yes, all the time, we're very close, she's.

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My best friend, her name is amber, correct, yeah, so you're the general manager in hanover. Yes, sir.

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You won't be in the daily daily operations here in westminster. No, I won't.

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You're, just on the license for convenience for the corporation.

H

So you will you be visiting the westminster all equipment yeah, I usually go in there.

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And stop by and see how it's doing, because I know a lot of people in there.

H

So are you aware their policies for for liquor? It's been a while, but I have gone over on. Yes,.

H

So let me ask you in hanover, do you accept vertical license in hanover.

H

Yes, do you know whether they do in westminster or not off the top of my head? I'm not sure. Okay,.

H

I would think that was something you might want to be interested in knowing absolutely.

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There's an application and we're taking timothy crot coutroko kotroko off and adding.

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Courtney woodpecker, but also adding colleen hunter and lindsey.

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Corn, no their current licensees for this location. Yes, sir.

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So they have been on the license. Yes, sir okay and I got it- yep they're corporate entity, correct.

D

They both work at the corporate office in florida. Okay, yes, I remember, we had a little.

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Snafu, here several months ago or a year or something ago trying to get somebody to.

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Sign something on behalf of corporations.

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I'm sorry, I didn't get the names of the two character witnesses. Could you.

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Could you give me the names again christine holman? Did you spell your last name h-o-l-o-m-a-n.

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Amber rotin.

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So the other licensees are out of state that is correct, and, and this young lady is.

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Lives in carroll county correct, but I I I was looking for- I might have missed this and but.

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You're not going to be involved in any of the daily operations correct. So there's no licensee.

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Directly involved daily with, I can tell you that miss hunter is involved not on that not physically.

D

On site, but she is their legal liaison to this restaurant and she is in contact with them on.

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Almost a daily basis, okay, so there is involvement and ms corin is actually the director the legal.

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um In-House counsel for darden, so they are both actively involved not in on-site, but on a regular.

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Basis right, okay, I can say they're both attorneys, yes, and I can share with you, ms holman one of the.

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Character witnesses right here has been at the westminster location for 24 years. Okay, thank you.

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I was going to ask you: have a a character witness from hampstead in manchester.

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And this restaurant's in westminster and now I know why they probably go to hanover.

A

Right, I'm sorry, I didn't understand the question.

A

Your two character witnesses are from hampstead in manchester and you're. The manager in hanover.

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And it was just amusing to me that you you're from westminster that you had hampstead and.

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Manchester character witnesses, so maybe they go to hanover more than westminster.

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Yeah she she works with me. Amber works with me in hanover, and then I worked with her when I started.

E

So I'm doing it a long time.

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um Have there been any drinking driving violations uh in your history driving history? For me, yes,.

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Seem to be about uh nine years ago or longer. I think it was longer than that. Yeah.

H

Ms whitbecker are you, tips are tam certified. Yes,.

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What kind of car do you drive a dodge, durango.

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What kind of car did you drive in the 12-13 toyota yaris a what a toyota yaris.

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Very small car yeah.

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It must be pretty quick. Does it was it the oris yeah? I was good on gas. That's why I had it.

E

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I'm sorry you did say 20 27 is the ownership interest correct.

D

Do we have a letter of resignation from the current resolution? You should yes.

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In addition, mr catrocco also signed the application, as.

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um Consenting to transfer great thanks, certainly.

I

A

Miss courtney, you, as the manager, you say you have to oil in pennsylvania. You have vertical license.

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As well as maryland and there's a difference in when they have to be renewed and so forth,.

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What's your policy in hanover on maryland vertical license.

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And we accept them as long as we check the idea and it's their of age.

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You check your check of maryland vertical license. Yeah. We always idea everyone.

H

You id everyone yeah.

H

Set the policy in westminster.

D

Solman, can you speak to that um right now we um pretty much card everyone. If they look under 40.

F

So you have an age limit. Yeah hanover does not have an age limit, they call it.

H

Card everyone that walks in there yeah it's my role just so we don't violate anything.

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And what does the westminster restaurant have regarding vertical license? Is there any any.

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Restrictions at all, we don't accept them. Okay, don't accept them. Okay, but they're accepted.

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In handover, with id uh I mean with uh checking the id a manager or just the server.

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Server, we have ramp certifications that they have to take a test and it's hanover's wall for it. So.

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They know to do it, so the server is doing bartenders. Anybody that handles alcohol.

J

Do you have a corporate handbook procedures and policies? Yes,.

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And it's the same for all franchises or all schools. Yes,.

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And you're you're involved in the day-to-day operations in hanoi. Yes, sir.

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How many restaurants are you responsible for just one, but.

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Although you now have a vested interest in this location, correct, yes, correct.

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K

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Are they both corporate stores, hannah and westminster? Yes, sir, and you own 27.5 of the owning.

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Corporation of og of westminster, inc, which is just responsible for the westminster location, correct.

A

You have no ownership in hanover, yes, you do. You do not have I'm sorry. I do have airship in the hanover location. How much.

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I believe it's the same amount. Is it the same corporation that owns hanover? It is not.

H

So you love the licensee in hanover also, yes, sir, how long have you been a licensee there? Five years.

E

I do believe, since I became a general manager if I can qualify that just for the record.

D

In pennsylvania, the licenses are not issued to individuals as they are here in maryland.

J

She's, an officer of the entity, therefore she's a named person but she's, not a licensee as we would.

D

Interpret it here in maryland, pennsylvania doesn't pennsylvania, actually issues the.

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License to the corporation okay, whereas here in maryland, issue to the individuals on behalf.

D

So I just wanted to make that distinction. Thank you for clarifying, certainly.

I

So not a licensee in pennsylvania, but an officer of the licensing. Yes, sir,.

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You have another young lady back, there is, did she intend to testify or she she will be happy.

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To speak up at the board, she is the director of operations for this westminster location.

D

This is ms brandy delosh, and I believe you all have met her before in the past.

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Do you have anything you would like to say, but I'm more than welcome to answer any questions.

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Can you go to that center microphone there please sure.

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State your name and address brandy, deloach 810 harvest, terrace, newmarket, maryland 21774.

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And and your position now, I'm the director of operations that includes uh the location.

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Of the westminster olive garden 1522. and how many other I have eight other locations that range from.

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West virginia to pennsylvania, down into maryland, to baltimore.

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So who's responsible for the day-to-day operations.

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On premises, the day-to-day operations on premise is handled by the general manager amber meguera.

D

She's in new jersey today couldn't join us.

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So she skipped that one.

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She'd rather be in maryland in new jersey, but that's beside me.

H

Do most of your establishments have a licensee that they actually come to the establishment.

H

Every now and then um no so I, for instance, I'm on the establish or on the license for.

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Frederick, however, I visit the location in frederick, probably three times a month,.

L

But you can visit it, though right correct how many other people are on that license in frederick.

H

Three other people that are all also uh frederick county residents as well, so they're, probably there.

H

More than you are, then, no, they don't work in the day to day operations either. It's.

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Very similar to lindsey crane and the other locat licensee for westminster. They do have.

L

Something to do with the operations, however, they are not on site or in the field, in operations.

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Directly, so it's you're telling me it's not abnormal for your corporations to have licensees.

H

That never even come to the establishment, no sir, they do work remotely and then they're also.

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Part of a legal team that that supports our our business structure. Okay, thank you. You're welcome,.

A

How many employees are at the westminster location.

L

Approximately 80 to 90 we do hire very often so that number fluctuates as of february 28th.

L

There was 96 employees at that location and how many of our full time, probably about 70 of them,.

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How many managers do you have at the westminster four four general managers, one general manager.

L

Along with three department managers at any one time, how many managers are on premises.

L

At any one time, there's always a minimum of one for responsible alcohol sales, food.

L

Safety and things of that nature, but there can be up to four in the building at any time as.

L

Well, on most days, there are three managers that work per day. So there's always two in the building.

L

Typically, on those days, however, it can fluctuate based off vacation and flex time. What what are the.

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Hours of westminster, operation 11 to 10., we close at 10 o'clock every day there, seven days. Yes, sir.

L

Also for that location, um we do have our corporate responsible alcohol sales, but we're also on an.

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Enhanced alcohol sales program as well, along with having a third-party company that comes in that's.

L

A bars program that supports to make sure that we're safely protecting our community and being.

L

Responsible with our sales of alcohol, due to the 2019 and 2021 incidences, we have taken extra.

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Measures to make sure that we can be safe for the community and for our team. You mentioned enhanced.

I

Correct what is that exactly so, for instance, our corporate standard is the age limit of 30. However,.

L

For our enhancedness, the age limit is chris and a stated of 40. there's also additional training.

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That comes along with it extra learning modules daily talk-ins about responsible alcohol cells.

L

We have our zios on the table, they're the little computers. They have special extra features where.

L

They can plug in the data burst right there at the table gives them prompts to make sure that.

L

We're being responsible, we also don't accept the vertical license and other enhanced features. Just.

L

To make sure that we're safe also, they do a compliance report check every single week.

L

To make sure that everybody is completely uh trained in all of these, and no one can safely.

L

Sell responsible sales by themselves until all of the training has been completed.

L

And that's validated both by the general manager and myself every week and the compliance check is.

I

What 100, no I mean, how do you do it? How do you perform it? Oh there's computer modules.

L

On our system, that's in real time, so they can be updated instantaneously. So we check.

L

Those every week to make sure that everybody in our computer system, once you get hired.

L

You get a set of set of tests and modules and learning activities and one you can't go on to.

L

The next official trained place until you've completed all of those, so they can't go live.

L

Until they've done it and the trainers validate and stand and the managers validate it during.

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Training as well to make sure that they're in compliance and that they have to get 100.

L

Before they can to move forward, if they don't, they just have to keep retaking it until they get.

L

It right, okay! So when you say compliance you're talking about training correct as opposed to.

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Testing correct or tester training and testing. Well I mean testing with an underage volunteer.

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Coming in or or actually, a third party coming in with someone who's underage trying to get served.

I

Correctly right, correct: okay, that's the bars program correct! That is the bars program. Yes, sir,.

D

That's the company bars is the company that does the season they send someone in. They send someone.

D

In to try to purchase alcohol, do they do that in westminster? Yes, correct! It's a third party company.

L

We employ to make sure we're. So do you have a record from each restaurant how many times it.

H

Passed and how many times they've failed from the bars. I can get that information for you. Yes,.

L

How often does bars visit once a month.

I

And I'm sure you address every failure if there's a failure, absolutely.

A

A

Dr benford, do you have anything to add um every time I've dealt with the management they've been.

M

Already been playing cooperative throughout this thing, I know we had problems at one time about.

M

People under 21 working the bar- um we just addressed that and they so far.

M

Have now have everybody over 21 working behind the bar? How long ago was that.

M

Six seven, eight months ago, someone under 21 was working behind the bar.

H

And who would take responsibility for that if, by putting someone.

H

Under 21 behind the bar, that would be the general manager correct right.

I

How's business good, is it yeah it's picking up, which is nice? Thank you.

A

Any other questions. Yes, sir.

A

This time would you like to make any closing remarks.

D

What I would like to say so one thing I didn't advise the board the day-to-day operation of this.

D

Location is not changing. um Ms whitpecker will be placing mr catrocco, who was not involved with.

D

Darden at all, he you know, would occasionally visit the restaurant, but he had no other affiliations.

D

With darden ms wedbecker is a general manager for darden has been with the company for 26 years.

D

Has very tight ties to the westminster location and I would ask the board approve as a licensee.

H

Any final questions comments. Yes, sir, how long was mr good luck on the license? I believe.

D

It was seven years seven years, I'd have to go back and look. I think it was about seven years.

A

With that, if there are no questions or comments.

A

The board will decide the merits and render a decision.

H

Excuse me, mr barnard, I uh one thing I will say is that the olive garden, in my opinion,.

H

Are very responsible management and establishment.

H

They do community service for for most of the high schools, which we do appreciate that um I don't.

H

Think that they would put someone on the license that they didn't have respect or confidence in.

I

Well, I agree with those comments I think clearly, uh this young lady is.

I

Fit and proper person to be on the license as a resident agent replacing mr catracco.

H

So with all that said, I would make a motion if the chairman is acceptable, that, yes, sir, please do.

H

I I would make a motion to accept the application to accept the transfer.

H

From timothy cutroco to courtney, whitbecker for a class bc, beer wine and liquor license.

H

With catering to be issued to courtney, witbecker colleen hunter lindsey karine for.

H

The use of olive garden westminster trading has olive garden. Rest italian, restaurant.

H

I have a second question: motion's been properly made in the second and that.

A

This board approve the change of resident licensee from timothy cacraco to courtney, whitbecker.

A

Any further discussion on the motion hearing- none those in favor signa 5- is saying: aye aye, aye.

A

Opposed no so ordered. Thank you very much. Congratulations.

A

Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you. One quick question has nothing to do with.

E

How much catering business do the restaurants do we do not as much as most of the restaurants.

E

Around us, just because we don't have a lot of you know, I guess big buildings or you know, hospitals.

E

Around too much so we're pretty coasting with it. I guess it's a good way to put it, but it's.

E

Not our biggest for us, this is not just for some reason. The bc was in there. It struck enough here.

F

Do you do a lot of carryout at westminster? um Our carryout is, does pretty well yeah yeah, but that.

A

By catering, um I'm not really involved in the to go side, so I'm not sure exactly how much catering.

F

They do about 30 carryout and about 12 percent of that is catering. Is that right? Thank you at that.

L

Location good and, as miss whitmer said it very fluctuates. um Owens mills is close to hospital.

L

So they do probably 40 percent carry out and about 25 of that is catering. I was just curious.

A

I don't see a little truck running around westminster, like chick-fil-a.

J

Chick-Fil-A catering, the olive garden, you know.

A

If you all would just be sure you exit the same way yeah because they need those badges back.

A

Thank you very much.

A

Next time you come, I want to hear you do that three times real quick.

M

M

Okay, joe, we still need to wait until the next one's over okay.

A

This time I would like to ask our attorney mr dixon to please call our 1030k 6379. Please.

B

Okay, 6379 an application to replace the resident licensee stephen tiedemann with andrew h, vance.

B

For class b, beer wire mutual bison to be issued to andrew h, vance for the use of.

B

Gt westminster, llc trading as the green turtle, sports bar and grill 830 market street westminster.

B

Maryland 21157 and election district 7. and to file this matter. We have the following documents:.

B

Notice, the public hearing dated february 25th 2022 notice, the public hearing dated february 18 2022.

B

A february 10 2022 letter from joe vance to andrew h, vance esquire, a february 3rd 2022 letter from.

B

David f mister to the board of licensed commissioners and then.

B

There's an application and the application includes character, references driving record.

B

Sdat information workers, compa information workers, comp insurance information, criminal.

B

Background information, corporate information operating agreement, stock information.

B

Registration notes, a resignation, notice, a lease.

B

And operating agreement evidence that the file be entered into evidence. Thank you.

B

We'll accept that in evidence this time I would ask all those who intend to testify in the case.

A

Please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by mrs vegas.

C

Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to give.

C

Is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You may be seated.

A

This time, mr mister you'd like to proceed welcome to carroll county. Thank you, mr.

N

Chairman brawny and members of the board, let me say at the outset to the best of.

N

My knowledge and information, mr vance, is not related to mrs vance of this board.

N

Although I think they may be acquainted with each other.

N

Mr chairman, members of the board, this is a um a change of corporate officer. The resident licensee.

N

As you know, the green turtle has been a licensed entity in this county. For many years it's been.

N

A part of the corporate operations for about 10 years now it was a franchisee at one time. Some.

N

Of their their restaurants are franchises, some are run by corporate we have with us today. Besides mr.

N

Vance uh we have mike wells who's, the director of franchise operations and shelly collins who's. The.

N

Director of human relations um for on behalf of the green turtle franchising corporation.

N

um I would proffer to you and of course it can be supplemented by the testimony.

N

That mr andrew vance is a member of good standing at the bar of maryland.

N

He's been a practicing attorney for over 35 years. I have known him since 1982 when he came.

N

To my law office as an intern from the umbc in the umbc intern legal internship program,.

N

And apparently his experiences there did not discourage him from pursuing a career in the.

N

Law, he is well recognized in his field, which is construction law. As a matter of fact, he is.

N

Occasionally, employed by the carroll county board of education for construction matters through.

N

Their outside construction council- and he does represent a number of other board of educations.

N

In the state of maryland on construction law matters, I only offer that because, as.

N

The board may be somewhat aware: construction law and the regulations having to do with governmental.

N

Projects can be very arcane at times and require a lot of understanding of nuance being a.

N

Licensee, a resident licensee, not an operator, I think, will be a very easy task for mr vance. We do.

N

Not expect him he's not going to be on premises on a regular basis, he's not going to be an operator.

N

He's an accommodation party and that's the reason. Obviously, we've invited mr wells and miss collins.

N

Here, to talk to you about anything about the ongoing operations um and, having said that,.

N

I'd like to invite mr wells to uh to offer some testimony about how the operations have been done.

N

Historically, what you're doing right now, what your policies and practices are particularly.

N

With regard to identification of patrons to to make sure that they're of appropriate age.

N

To purchase and consume alcoholic beverages and other activities, you do so as you comply.

N

With the alcoholic beverages law, the general laws of the state of maryland, and particularly.

N

To make sure that you're not disturbing the public anyway, mr wells uh excuse me.

A

State your full name and address for the record plea before you testify yep michael uh wells.

O

Six 6990 columbia, gateway, drive, columbia, maryland two one one or two one: zero. Four six. Thank you.

O

uh My name is uh michael wells. uh I'm the director of operations for the the company.

O

um Been employed uh by the company for going on close to 20 years now, so I've seen seeing.

O

This particular store from the onset of opening from a franchise location, the transition to a.

O

Corporate store and then obviously until today, sat in front of the board here a few times now.

O

Through different instances and altercations that we've been summoned.

O

Overall, I think the operation does a very good job and it's been uh been one of our leaders through.

O

The covid pandemic, both from the management team uh and obviously just from a guest satisfaction.

O

Scores that we received from there from an alcohol standpoint, we take it extremely serious, both at.

O

The uh the top level uh at the corporate office uh down to the uh the servers and the bartenders.

O

We require everyone to be tip certified within uh 30 days of employment. We've been.

O

Ramping that up to its fullest extent in the last probably nine months after the covet.

O

Wave kind of hit, so that is all compliant there. All the managers.

O

That are on duty are all certified. We always have a a supervisor manager on duty and I think.

O

In the last 12 months you know, operations there from a alcohol standpoint have been.

O

Top-Notch mr wells, what's your policy and practice with regard to the identification of.

N

Patrons to determine their of age to purchase and consume outclocked beverages, uh we have a policy.

O

Of carding everybody at that location, okay, so even old guy, like me, will get carted card.

N

With a smile, okay and what you also have a policy in practice that your all of your servers.

N

And management team uh are aware and they're instructed that any patron who appears to be.

N

Visibly under the influence of alcohol be refused service. Is that correct? That's correct, okay and.

N

Do you know at this point in time how many servers you have at the westminster location? uh It varies.

O

It's it's ramping up the sales they're ramping up employment, total employment's around 50.

O

Employees, we probably have give or take uh 20 to 25 servers and, and, as you say, the policy is that.

N

Within 30 days of hire, if they don't already have a certification, you will make sure they go through.

N

A tips or tam or some other controller, certified alcohol awareness training program is that correct.

O

That's correct and, and uh even if they don't have uh uh tips is required. So if they have a tam, we.

O

Still have them go through our training. Okay, I understand and um what are your standard hours.

N

Of operation uh during the week, it's from 11 00 to uh midnight uh and on the weekends.

O

uh To one am okay- and I know that you're cognizant of, but I I take it, that you pay special attention.

N

To make sure that your patrons are not causing any disturbance to the community, particularly.

N

When they leave the establishment in the evening yep, all managers are very aware of that.

N

Questions of mr wells from the board, mr wells: what's your policy on vertical license.

O

uh We do not accept vertical licenses and you said you have a corridor policy, so everyone.

H

That comes in there. If I were to come in there, they'd ask for ideas. That's correct!.

H

And are you aware of any violations that you've had in the past five years.

H

uh Yes, did you tell me what they were? We had a cadet um underage cadet. uh I believe.

O

It was about a year ago, 21 yep. uh I think it was 20. I think the hearing was in 21., okay.

P

21 they had one.

P

They had one 113 21 and then they had one 7 14 21.

P

The fine was suspension was reinstated: 7, 14, 21., so 113 21, 7, 14, 21., okay,.

I

So that's two violations in 2021. Yes, well.

C

Those are the hearing dates. So probably the january 20th happened in december. Do you have your.

I

I don't I didn't make copies, you should have. I have them, it was yeah, one was 2020 and then the.

H

Other one was 20 21. Yes, the fine was suspect 300 to spot fine suspended in january 13 2021.

P

And that was reinstated july, 14, 2021., okay, so within a 12-month period there were two.

H

So let me ask you a question: since those last violations have you made any changes.

H

uh We ramped up staffing um at that time during cove, but staffing was kind of up and down just.

O

With sales, so we committed to getting staffing uh to a 100 percent place training we ramped up.

O

As well and then also from a tips standpoint, we had everybody tip certified and you still have.

H

That that day, where you have two drinks that you get two drinks for one price, did you do away with.

H

That yep uh I'll disagree with that um they're you're still doing two for one on wednesdays.

Q

They just started, they just started back up. They have a new part manager who wanted to try.

M

And then who's the female gm female uh amanda. Yes, she advised that they're doing it.

M

2-1 on wednesday nights. Thank you, mr benford, so you didn't you weren't, aware of that. I was not.

H

Do you still at any time have a doorman, no.

I

Didn't the green turtle used to have a policy where there was a doorman who would check id.

I

And then there'd be a bracelet involved with certain events that you would have.

I

That was back in the uh the franchise uh business. Okay, they have.

M

Before covert, they had doormen on wednesday nights um and they actually worked with several times and.

M

We've done, we did the fake id scanners and we brought we've actually found some violations.

M

Through the fake id scanners of people having a fake id, so the police department was called and.

M

Green turret was supportive on that, when we did, those they've always been cooperative right. Yes,.

M

Very much so has the green turtle invested in one of those fake id scanners. Are you talking about.

O

uh We had one at one point behind the bar yeah. I don't think it's it's still operable today.

A

How many managers have you had at that location in the past five years?.

O

um uh I don't know that fully I mean. Currently, we have three um over covered. That number uh probably.

O

uh Doubled, if not tripled in the last two years, um just with all the uh the different changes in.

O

Our organization and are just trying to get through the pandemic in the last five years.

O

I don't know that off topic.

A

Is is it corporate policy, were these specials like two for ones and so on and so forth or.

A

You, since this is a corporate store, I mean stores, have the ability to offer.

O

Local specials that help them generate business.

O

That one I wasn't aware of so that will will have to uh reel that back.

O

But uh you know typically there's an approval process to everything.

O

uh Where senior management's being alerted, um so I think that might have been an oversight.

H

When you say reel that back, does that mean you're going to discontinue it? Yes,.

M

Because they did have a dui, I don't have in front of me. I could go get it if you want me, but they did have a dui out of a wednesday night ended last year.

A

Did you identify yourself for the record inspector keith benford board licensed commissioners.

M

Do you want me to go upstairs to try to find that paperwork.

A

I don't think it's nice I for me, it's not necessary. I don't know about my colleagues.

I

I accept, I accept your okay, thank you steven afterwards,.

I

uh I don't have any further questions of uh mr wells.

I

Questions, I don't have any further. You may move on. Mr mister, please thank you, mr chairman, would you.

N

Like to hear from mr vance, yes, please, okay, would you please state your name and address for the.

N

Record mr vance andrew vance, 77 east main street suite 408 westminster first off mr vance. How long.

N

Have you lived in carroll county um when I got married in 1990, I moved to carroll county right.

R

Across from westminster, high school and you've continued to live in carroll county, since that.

N

Time I have okay, tell the board your background. Give us a sort of a thumbnail sketch of your.

N

Resume I I went to college starting in western maryland when it was called western maryland.

R

Then moved on to umbc, where I met mr mister. After umbc I graduated there in 1983 I went.

R

To george washington law, school graduated in 86 went to work for a law firm down in.

R

D.C called browdy b-r-a-u-d-e browdy and margulies bratty margulies represented general.

R

Contractors, chiefly whiting turner, up and down the east coast. So that's really where I learned.

R

Construction law, if you will, in the intervening years I have out of the.

R

35 years of of practice, I would say that a good 27 or 28 I've been a solo practitioner.

R

I did for a short, while four years go with a law firm that was known at the time as hodes.

R

Pullman pessin and katz and towson now known as pessim cats and they're, the general counsel to.

R

Board of education here since 2004 my office has been in westminster and I represent chiefly.

R

Boards of education doing their construction work contracts, delay claims change, orders.

R

Litigation and just mediation, arbitration working things out and then state and federal bid, protests.

R

And federal government contracting with mid to.

R

Larger size contractors in the united states and abroad.

I

I have a question for you, sir. I'm just trying to, in my mind, get straight the pecuniary interest.

I

I I think what I glean is that you have 10 percent interest in gt westminster, llc.

I

And the other 90 is owned by green turtle. Franchising court.

R

That was my understanding as well: okay and uh for gt westminster llc, you own 10,.

I

Shares and your contribution was 100 for that. That's also my understanding. Okay, thank you.

A

No the questions, mr bates at this time, mr mister, uh that would be then the uh applicant's case.

N

Unless the board wants to hear from someone else, I mean mrs collins is here, but I think she would be.

N

What she would testify to would be uh duplicative to.

N

What mr wells has testified and we'd be happy to answer any other questions that the board may have.

N

I just will assure you, I know that there's been some problems there.

N

You know places like green turtle. Etcetera are the kind of places that tend to attract.

N

Sometimes younger people and the like, I can tell you, because I have the pleasure.

N

Of representing the green turtle franchising corporation throughout the state of maryland,.

N

They do take the behavior of all of their employees in every location very seriously.

N

They are very concerned about making sure there's compliance with the law, in particular, particularly.

N

With regard to the age of their patrons and to make sure the conduct of their patrons um is, is.

N

Appropriate, whether it's because of consumption of alcohol or anything else um and frankly, I've.

N

Noticed since the time I've represented them, which has been a pretty good while now that they have.

N

Really restricted a lot of the activities that, before things like where there were special drink.

N

Nights and stuff like that and live entertainment, not necessarily in westminster, but some of their.

N

Other locations around the state and where that tended to perhaps attract crowds that were rowdier.

N

Sometimes, people that were not necessarily good people and created disturbances. They.

N

They've done away with that they're trying to be focused on being a food.

N

Business with beverages as a compliment to that, as opposed to other way around.

N

And obviously they're not trying to be a nightclub or anything like that.

N

I must say that of all the clients I represent and fortunate to have many in this business.

N

Their policies, if followed by the employees, are some of the strictest around. You know, make.

N

Carding everybody, um you know making sure that every server is alcohol awareness trained. That's.

N

Fairly extraordinary, in my experience, having said that, I would hope the board would approve this.

N

Change of resident licensee from one lawyer to another, as you know, probably know mr tiedemann.

N

Was a long standing member of the bar and served for a long time in in the capacity as a licensee.

N

In carroll county, mr vanz, I just had one question: what was your? What was.

H

Your total contribution for your shares- I I believe it's 100, sir.

A

Excuse me any other questions. I just want to be clear on the on the corporate structure here so.

I

The license is for the use of gt westminster, llc, that's correct, and the applicants.

I

Paid 100 for 10 shares.

I

um And then 90 is owned by.

I

Green turtle franchising corp, so how many shares are there? How many shares.

I

This green turtle franchise in court they're the other 90 so as as the board may be aware,.

N

There's sort of a difference, a dichotomy between what your basic corporate investment is, which is.

N

Always pretty fairly minimal compared to like the value of the business as a going concern.

N

And obviously the the operating costs and that stuff are.

N

Are funded through the franchising corporation, which is the majority owner.

H

So what percentage does mr titum in uh he had 10 10 percent close to 10.

A

Any other questions, john. I don't have anything, no, dr ben, for any comments. um Every time I deal.

M

With green turtle, they've been very playing cooperative, um I know they've gone through.

M

Several general management in the last three years, four years, I've I've lost count myself.

N

It's a tough time for employee financial police melissa's, the general manager there.

O

Has been there, uh I guess over a year now um and she's been an employee, a manager and a.

O

Before that a server and a bartender for uh I think, going on 10 years.

O

I mean she's a did she wasn't she a manager, someplace someplace else, okay,.

O

And then uh white marsh uh before that I mean the reality, is during the covet pandemic. We had.

O

uh We were just trying to stay alive and we had to move a lot of managers around.

O

We had people leaving because of the safety of what they thought. Restaurants prevented.

O

But we, you know, I think we found uh melissa to be a strong leader at that restaurant.

P

There are no other questions, testimony is closed and, mr mister, would you like to make any.

A

Closing remarks or comments, uh mr chairman, I think that probably spoken enough unless.

N

There's a question you have: I just would urge the board to approve this change of resident licensee.

N

Obviously, we've had some problems there. I think we've made um uh appropriate remedial efforts.

N

To to uh to correct issues and mr wells, I take him at his word that as soon as.

N

This is over, I know, he's to meet with with your inspectors, but uh is going to discontinue that.

N

Ill-Fated recent apparent resumption of the two for one and uh we will continue to.

N

Follow the practice of getting everybody certified and the like, and I and I appreciate what the.

N

Board's inspectors have said about cooperation and hope they will continue to communicate with.

N

My clients, if they foresee any problem hopefully before, would ever have to come before the board.

N

Having said that, I hope the board will approve this transfer. Thank you.

A

Hearing now excuse me.

A

Testimony evidence has been presented and is now closed and we will now deliberate to the.

A

Merits of the presentation of the transfer gentlemen: well, um let me make these comments to.

I

People here and to the board and to mr harmony. I feel that, based on council's opening remarks,.

I

As well as the testimony of the applicant that mr vance's clearly a fit and proper person to hold.

I

A liquor license in carroll county. um I was in addition to that. I was heartened by some.

I

Comments of mr wells in response to our questions, um so I will be prepared to make a motion after.

I

Mr harmon has an opportunity to to discuss the case. Mr barnhart, I do. I do agree with everything.

H

You just said, and uh I have no question about mr titleman being fit and proper absolutely. He is.

H

um One thing I would like to say is: it has been unfortunate that over the few years that they've.

H

Had such a bad string of managers, I'm not sure if it's really their fault or not, but they have made.

H

Appropriate changes- and I appreciate mr weld jumping uh at the change of the two for one.

H

Drink um so with all that said, I'd like to hear your motion, mr harmony, just to be to be correct.

N

For the record, while I think mr tiedemann is is very still very confident qualified.

N

He is moving from carroll county, so I hope you find the same with mr vance. Oh I'm sorry, mr vance.

I

Yes, thank you, um um mr chairman. I would like to make a motion in this case.

A

If the chair is open for a motion, uh I knew that in case 6379 I knew that we.

I

Approved the application to replace the resident licensee stephen tiermann with andrew h, vance.

I

For a class b, beer and wine liquor license issued to andrew bands for the use of gt.

I

Westminster llc trading as green turtle, sports bar and grill in westminster, maryland.

A

Their second in the motion, I second, that motion has been properly made in the second, in that.

A

This board approved the application of andrew h, vance for a class b beer. One and liquor license.

A

To be issued to andrew h, vance for the use of gt westminster.

A

Llc trading has the green turtle sports bar and grill westminster merrill.

A

Any further discussion on the motion hearing- none all those in favor signify- is saying.

A

Aye aye opposed no, so ordered. Congratulations accept my apology for you. Oh please, no worries.

O

Thank you all now, mr vance, I have a real, quick question for you. Yes, the address that you have.

A

The street in finksburg, yes, where is that located uh it's behind mechanicsville elementary school.

A

So there's a road that goes back pool road and it's it's back there somewhere.

A

I don't I was born raised in carroll county. Did things work? I didn't recognize it, it doesn't show.

A

Up on many gps servers that for some reason so difficult times, you live behind herman huff's.

A

Farm and it used to be fishers and so on and so forth. Okay, I know it exists. I've been there.

A

Thank you, mr mister. Thank you. I think I'll be back momentarily.

N

Okay, we're going to take a five minute break.

A

And we're back in session.

A

But this time I would ask our esteemed attorney mr dixon, if you'll call our 11 o'clock case, 6380.

A

Please all right k, 6380 an application to replace licensees young zoo and jan liu with john lee z,.

B

For class b beer, one and liquor license to be issued to.

B

John lee z for the use of q 168 llc trading as sushi q5 250 angler road suite one westminster.

B

Mount 21157 and election district 7. and to follow this matter, we have the following documents:.

B

Notice, a public hearing dated february 25 2022.

B

Notice, the public hearing dated february 18 2022 february 10 2022 letter from joe vance to.

B

Zomlie z, a february 8th 2022 letter from david f mister to the board of licensed commissioners.

B

And an application that includes fdat information, articles of organization.

B

Operating agreement, character, references.

B

Driving record ownership, information.

B

Resignation, letters, citizenship papers.

B

I would ask that the file be entered into evidence, we'll accept that into evidence.

P

This time I would ask all those who intend to testify in this case. Please stand raise your right.

A

Hand and be sworn in by mrs vance: do you swear or affirm under the penalties of perjury, that.

C

The testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but you may be seated.

A

Mr mister, whenever you're ready thank you good morning, chairman brawny members of the board, david.

N

F mister, mr winner of bartlett llc, representing the applicant this morning, um as opening remarks.

N

I would advise the board that this particular location holding an alcoholic beverage license, has.

N

Been been in business for approximately four years and mr z, uh who is to my right, the board's left.

N

Was recently approved as an alcoholic beverage licensee in carroll county.

N

By this board in january, at a remote hearing for the location in eldersburg.

N

And uh so, as to my knowledge, nothing has occurred. He hasn't done anything in the intervening time.

N

That probably would render him unfit, uh so I would suggest to you and recommend to you that he still.

N

Remains to be fit and proper, applicant and and a person to hold an alcoholic beverages license.

N

There have been some corporate structure changes the the previous licensees here, one of them both.

N

Were female one of them left the area the other left and to get married and to have children so.

N

They have withdrawn from the company. Mr z has been an employee for a period time, and that was.

N

One of the reasons that he was designated to be a licensee in eldersburg. However, his duties now as a.

N

25 owner he's principally going to be charged with the the operation of and management of, the.

N

Restaurant in westminster- I am aware, although I don't think I was representing them at that time-.

N

That there was one prior violation, I believe, the sale to underage person, a a cadet or.

N

You know someone who was an operative for the sheriff's department, approximately two years or.

N

Two or three years ago, but there have been none since that time. I also would proffer to you that.

N

Part of their cross practices at their restaurants that they have in baltimore, county howard, county.

N

Carroll county, and particularly because that prior violation, they have a policy and practice that.

N

Every server gets alcohol awareness trained within a reasonable period, time of their employment.

N

And not only that, but they do a refresh. They usually do uh sort of a train. All the employees at.

N

Once so periodically, even though people have been certified before they will bring the trainer in.

N

Have all their servers trained on on a regular basis, uh also their policy and practice is that.

N

Everyone gets carded everyone, it has to provide identification, their proper age to purchase.

N

Alcoholic beverages- the last thing I would point out to the board, is: I don't think that this other.

N

Than obviously that sting that we saw is not the kind of place that people tend to go to to.

N

Booze it up, you know uh that sort of thing their sushi restaurant. If you've looked at the menu.

N

That it is probably one of the most complete menus of sushi uh and asian food products. I've ever seen.

N

And they only sell approximately two percent of their gross sales are at alcohol.

N

Overwhelmingly 98 is, is food. um uh Mr z, you've been sworn in, uh you've heard what I had to.

N

Say to the board: you yourself have been certified in alcohol awareness training. Is that correct.

N

Yes, okay and tell us how many years experience you've had as managing and operating restaurants.

S

All right how much, how much time have you spent managing restaurant operations? How many years.

N

Three four years: okay, good all right and um I don't think that any places that you've been the.

N

Manager of had a violation we understand. There's a prior. There was a prior violation westminster.

N

um Since you've taken over management operations there, there have been no violations correct. Yes,.

N

And what I uh proffered to the board with regard to your average percentage of sales of alcohol.

N

Coverage is that correct? It's only about two percent of your total sales yeah overwhelmingly.

N

Food, what are your standard hours of operation? What hours of operation? When do you open when.

N

Do you close on a daily basis, uh 11 to ten okay? Is that seven days, a week, seven days a week, okay,.

N

And how many uh employee, how many employees do you have at the westminster location uh around.

T

Around eight ten, eight to ten, yes and of those how many of those are servers.

N

Four, okay um and you've heard what I profit to the board. Also, is it correct that you seek.

N

To have all of your servers of alcoholic beverages trained in a certified alcohol.

N

Awareness program is that correct, and also not only the servers but also the managers.

N

Are trained in alcohol awareness is that correct, correct all right and um let me see what else.

N

This is going to be pretty much your full-time management position.

N

Is that correct at westminster, all right and and when you're not there, there's always going to be.

N

uh At least an another manager on site, that's also trained in alcohol awareness, training.

N

Is that correct, yeah all right um questions from the board.

N

State your name and address yes and address. uh My name is jennifer. uh The address is 250 angular row.

A

That's right, westfield.

A

Is that westminster? Yes, western eastern.

A

Mr mister, you stated uh he was in elves in the eldersburg restaurant. Yes he's, he said, he's a.

N

Lice he's one of the licensees there as chairman, it was approved in uh january of this year by the.

N

Board, okay- and that was my question- was he on the license there and you answered only as of only as.

N

Of january, or whatever we completed the board's checklist to actually have the license issued.

I

I

The licensees that he's replacing they still have ownership interests in the um q, 168 llc.

I

No, they do not buy them out, they do not. I think we filed with the board. Not only did we file.

N

The operating agreement, but a first amendment to that date of february 8.

N

Of this year, and also there's an assignment of membership, interest of the same date.

N

Of february it gets a little confusing because some of the other investors moved around their.

N

Their ownership interest so that each of the current investors in the llc have owned 25 percent.

I

Yeah um those those two that left the business have no longer have any financial interest.

N

Whatsoever, so that's my question. Also, I'm one of the quicker records that listed the applicant.

I

As a 20 owner, but that has changed with the uh there's licensees moving on and I guess.

I

He assumed their interest has been moved around. Yes, frankly, mr barnhart, I had to sit down and.

N

Do the math a couple of times, um because uh I I was, we got a little bit confused mathematically.

N

The way the percentage was moving out to make sure it added up correctly, but I assure you at.

N

This point in time it does, and at this point uh each would be an equal 25 percent honor. Thank you.

N

I

I'll just make a comment that I I live in eldersburg and I've been on social media. I've seen.

I

I haven't been into your restaurant, but I've seen some very good remarks.

I

About and uh I think clearly, you and your organization do a great job.

I

Thank you, mr roy. I have been in the restaurant and they probably have the best sushi that I've had.

H

They're happy to hear that you know they. Actually, I will tell you that.

N

I've had the pleasure representing them for a while. Their practice is to try and um to train.

N

And groom people in in the sushi restaurant business and they reward their employees.

N

They're hard-working employees with new restaurant locations and and view them with that and grant.

N

Them an ownership interest based upon their prior hard work and so far it's been working, pretty good.

A

There are no other questions of the applicant licensee inspector benford. Do you have any.

A

Comments before we move on, I think, every time I've dealt with any flight cooperative.

M

um They did have one violation back in september other than that no other violations.

M

With that, if there are no further questions or comments, testimony is uh closed and we will now.

A

Go into a summation, or any final comments, mr mr, if you would like to make, uh I would only suggest to.

N

The board that, as has indicated, uh mr z, has been already found to be fit and proper by this board.

N

In january, uh at that remote hearing and that I'm glad to hear some of the positive.

N

Things from the board that both public comment, as well as personal experience.

N

As to the quality of this restaurant, and I think that they will continue to probably have a very.

N

De minimis amount of alcohol sales compared to their total sales, having considered all that.

N

I would ask the board to approve this change of licensee on behalf of the existing licensed entity.

A

Any closing comments, spectre.

A

Before we uh move into deliberations,.

A

250 engler road: what's the address of the business yeah, I think I think they want your home address.

N

Sorry, no, no! That's all right! Oh! Is it that's? Okay, what I'm asking 250 in the road.

A

Is that across from the old shopping center, that's carol plaza papa john's right here, papa john's.

A

Right there on the amp in the old bank.

A

Okay, that's what I was getting at. It's the only place. I thought it could be. Okay with that.

H

Yeah well, mr barnhart, there there's no question that, in my opinion, that mr z is.

H

Quite qualified and fit and proper uh we've approved him in the past. uh Recently, um the.

H

Establishment is uh very professional, the food is excellent. The service is unbelievable, so, with.

H

All that said, do you have any comments? Well I'll. Just note that uh mr mister who's having.

I

Remarks did say that nothing has changed since our last hearing with regard to this applicant.

I

When we found him qualified at that time, so therefore I think it's evident that he's.

I

Clearly qualified this time as well and uh I'll support your motion, I'd make a motion. If it's.

H

Okay with chairman, please I'll make a motion to prove um the replacement of um john sue with.

H

John z for the class b, beer wine and liquor license to be issued to john z for the use of.

H

Sushi q 250 angler road westminster maryland.

H

Second, who's been properly made in second, that we approve the application to replace the existing.

A

Licensees with the new licensee for a class b bureau, one electric license issue to.

A

Pronounce your name.

A

For the use of q, 168 llc trading at sushi q5 250 angler road, suite 1 westminster maryland.

A

Any further discussion on the motion, all those in favor sign, the five is saying: aye.

J

Aye opposed no so ordered. Congratulations. Best wishes for continued success.

A

Thank you, it's nice to see the board in person again. Thank you. Thank you.

H

H

Oh, I thought you said: you've been the one elsewhere, no westminster.

H

Many times there they opened last week all right. We got some time here. Let's move into the business.

A

Portion of it, the first item of agenda is approval of the minutes from february 9th. You.

A

All should have received one by email as well as a copy this morning, any corrections or additions.

A

Hearing none they stand approved as presented first night of a new.

A

Business is updated deck seating plans for the board to review from raphael's.

A

And while they're passing that down, there was a question about permits and the permission. The.

M

Department, backed off from what they originally said, is that correct um somewhat they still want.

M

A request for a building permit for the deck to make sure it's structurally sound for having.

M

Seating underneath the deck area on the bottom- yes, I mean retroactively building. Permit yes,.

M

um And I forward the email to clark schaefer and to raphael himself and not have response back yet.

A

So they to your knowledge, they have no permit. They have no permit to my knowledge. So is there only.

H

One way to get to those seats under that deck and that's down that that then down those stairs. Yes.

M

The problem is once you're down the stairs. You can walk right out.

M

To the alley and there's it's nothing to stop you right, yeah.

M

So I my recommendation to board is still not allows seating or standing down underneath the.

M

Deck, it's basically a continuation of the parking lot underneath. Yes,.

I

And there's no barriers between that seating and the I mean in the proposed or right.

I

So, oh here you go.

M

I think it's like six tables underneath the deck uh yes and- and I guess the circles are.

I

I'm thinking it's, those are staples. Yes, high tops high tops, I guess.

I

So six tables and six high tops. Okay, you just drive on up parking lot and.

I

Scoot on under the deck and there's no, I mean the alley. You can drive right onto the parking lot.

M

The next door and there's nothing, there's no barricade for cars driving underneath the deck so.

H

There's no way to control who's going to be under that deck, there's. No, they could control it with.

I

Some type of supervision, if they wanted to employ that.

I

Right right, but also there's no safe, there's no safety railing for a car pulling in.

M

To the apartments next door and they come, you know they're pulling apartments.

M

Because the apartment, it's there's an apartment, parking lot next door to that.

M

Deck area that there's no curb, there's no nothing that they can pull right into the deck if they.

M

Wish so someone came into the parking lot and they were inebriated and they weren't able to really.

I

Control their vehicle they could theoretically get under that deck of people's seat. Yep.

A

Well, this is not you can't answer this question, but my question would be.

A

To a permits department, why would they ever issue a permit.

A

With that problem, because at one time they they were using just just as parking only.

M

They without they were allowed in parking underneath the deck. I'm sure I.

A

Understand that, but my question is: why would a permits department not question the public safety.

A

Of that, with tables down there and nothing to prevent some old man like me, hitting the.

A

Gas, instead of a break, maybe they are right. It hasn't been approved yet has not been approved for.

M

Seating down there, it's been approved for parking down there initially right, but has not been.

M

Approved for the seating aspect of it down there so have they submitted it for approval. I do as of.

M

Three four days ago, when I talked to tom harris, no, he has not seen any building permit for.

M

To be approved, I did forward the email to raphael and clark shaffer, saying that he needs to fill out.

M

A bone permit for the proceeding of it and who's that email from uh tom harris, uh not director, but.

M

Yeah so he said the email to you. Yes, a responsible question that you had: okay.

A

A

In order to accommodate patrons underneath of there, a waitress or waiter has got to go.

A

Down the steps: where do they have to go to the bar in order? I don't know.

I

There's not a bar on the deck. Is that there's that bar in between the the in between bar.

I

Yes, that, okay, the output like the semi-permanent outdoor bar area and then they have to walk.

M

Through the deck, and then they get to go down the stairs to get underneath it.

M

I would think patrons my guess: the patrons have to walk up the steps to get served.

M

And walk downstairs: why would somebody want to be out there.

M

I don't it gets crowded, I mean. Is there that much of a necessity for more tables in there.

H

In that place, I don't know, I can't answer that question one of the last conversations I.

I

Their had was that raphael was trying to change the atmosphere.

I

Away from a watering hole to more of a fine dining, that's why they did the remodeling and.

I

And so forth, and I'm not sure that this really comports with that uh goal.

I

It sounds like it's uh they're, just increasing.

I

I mean there's not going to be no fine, dining in a parking lot under a deck, no bathrooms either.

H

I don't think that that consistent with an oyster and steak restaurant that they're trying to.

H

To show that they're an upgrade and also does it present problems during the oyster stroll.

M

uh I'm waiting for the the one the april 22nd is the wine show it's the first.

M

Major event westminster has I'm going to see what they have, how it's handled yeah.

M

Yeah but that's that's more of a run and they it's not a stroll. They don't extract as many people.

M

The celtic cancers is just saturday, that's the first official kickoff for the season.

M

For that's a run and then each runner gets a alcohol beverage after running.

I

Well, on our business meeting, it says uh we're looking at the seating plans, yep.

I

Updated deck plans, are they uh I'm sorry? I just guess I should read the email. Are they.

I

Requesting that we approve it today is that no no, they just want us to. I just want to.

M

Keep you informed what's going on with the problem and my understanding is they're not allowed to sit.

M

Underneath the deck, the board has not given permission for that outdoor area to be used.

I

Pending approval from the farmers department and pending your approval for that.

M

Outdoor area? Okay, so that's not a decision we make today right.

A

Okay, you are aware of the ideas from the commission. I think we're all in agreement that.

A

It lacks sufficiency for continued discussions upon additional information.

A

Letters from three package goods stores owned by darren barnes about permission.

A

For delivery of large orders, there's three letters which are all the same.

A

They're all there and barnes's establishment, and then this is a new delivery form. There's.

C

A copy for each of you is that a proposed form, yes, yeah, that's basically the newest version of.

M

The carry-on delivery for the carryout okay yeah- I just made my fighter for liquor stores right.

I

Yeah, I noticed that the letter um just talked about the deliverer would be a.

I

Tam trained employee, a minimum of 100 where'd, you get the letter. Oh, I asked jared to give it to him.

I

But I know and.

I

They're asking that.

I

That they are stating they will require the signature of the accepting party.

I

And they'll keep a delivery sheet.

I

Based on the discussions we've had with the take out, I'm thinking that we might want to if we.

I

Agree to this asked that the agent address of the accepting person being documented. It should be on.

M

That should be on delivery forms yeah, it's all in the form here, oh so this is going to work for.

I

Delivery of all alcoholic beverages- correct not just a classic. No that's gonna be for class a. I.

M

That's class a cause. That's I designed that for class, a's establishments.

M

Because it lists more, it doesn't ask about food.

I

Got you so this is a redesign. This don't talk about food or anything right, okay, okay! Well, that's.

I

My question, uh okay, so that's the distinction here. We probably want the same thing without.

I

The food requirement correct okay, great and, as usual, you probably did a great job. Keith looks.

M

And I thought that'd be easier than a log book just to just make a copy.

M

And then they can't catch the receipts to that form and they have to keep on record. You know.

M

Four years, six months, whatever we decide keith, so what is this service exactly for? Is it for.

H

Events that people are having weddings uh the way our rule is allowed it's it could.

M

Be for a six-pack of beer if they want to deliver, if you guys want to.

M

Put modifications on it, we can. We could do that, but right now there is no limit on what how much.

M

Where who there's no rules, one of it, was a hundred dollars, but a hundred dollars could be one bottle.

H

Of whiskey yeah, I thought we did put. I thought we haven't approved this yet yeah. It happened.

I

I thought we were discussing limitations when mr barnes was here. I want to say, but.

M

Our rule- and I can't remember the rule number in our book- is very general.

I

It allows us to craft what we allow, so, if you want to make this for only big events then make it for.

M

Bigger events, if you want to allow 100 hours, make it harder, I don't know what the right answer is.

I

I I thought that when we discussed it, one of the things that the board liked was.

I

Prior order, this is a pre-order. This is not an order that someone just calls and.

I

Says: hey bring me a hundred dollars of booze. It's right. It's a prior order.

I

Mr barnes agreed he said: okay I'll go along with that, and he also set a threshold of 100.

I

And I thought that the board thought well. You know that that may work. How can I, how can I, as.

M

An inspector and know what time when they call it because well, I can add that to a form, but you.

M

Have to hope that they that they're truthful when they fill out the form so order date on the form.

I

Okay, but as far as mr barnes goes, he says I said I don't want to do any orders when.

I

Someone calls up and just drive it out there, so the only time I want to do this.

I

Is when I have a big order for an event? I agree that I agree with that, but what.

M

Happens is the guy says no, I want to deliver. Do this I'll deliver six packs. I want to deliver.

M

A case of beer, whether that's outside the school coverage, it's outside of our rules.

H

For a liquor store, I mean this was for big events like weddings.

H

That's all he was asking for yeah, that's what I was asking for and if that is the, if that is the.

H

Intent a hundred dollars is not enough because, that's like I said one bottle of whiskey now.

M

So, like you know now, this is what is this, where we're going to prove just for darren.

M

For the he's only going to prove to do this, or do we want to because I know mount airy.

M

Lickers is looking to would like to do something to effect too. Do they come and have separate dif.

M

Different set of rules for them could be. The rule is general note that allows us upon application.

I

To grant it and to craft the parameters of the grant seems to me that's my opinion.

I

uh For instance, previously someone wanted to use an app right, drizzly, correct.

I

You turn it into turn it down and yeah. If I think the app was a was a big problem.

I

In that case, but if he came back, if the man who want to use an app comes back.

I

With similar re or same request, then you can say that, well, you gave it to to these establishments.

I

You should give it to another one, so I I agree with that. What we do, I think, is going to.

I

Provide a format for any other requests if there are any other.

I

But we are right now dealing with the request mr barnes came in. He said he wanted. He wanted.

I

To request us of the board- and we said we'll present present your request to us and we'll.

I

Consider it and then we discuss the parameters of what we would consider and he's he agreed to.

I

Number I just I would my only request is whatever we decide should be across the board. We should not.

M

Have separate rules for different businesses it has to, except, if one business has a lot of.

I

Violations, we look at it differently. Correct. Do you bring it back? I agree with that, but you can't.

M

I can't have a rule. I can't have a rule book that says barnes, you know is this: these rules.

M

Mount airy liquors is these rules green? You know, greenmount licorice. Is these rules? I just don't.

H

I see your point too, but we got to be careful with this because it's going to set a presence, I mean.

M

You said the president, but you can only if they have multiplied, you don't allow it.

M

Right, you, don't you don't change, you don't change the rules personally, I think it should be for a.

H

Big event, somebody says: hey, I'm going to have a a college. Graduation party, I need you know.

H

Can you deliver it to help me out? I don't have a vehicle that can pick all that up.

H

That's the kind of thought that that I thought mr barnes uh was talking about. I don't know how.

H

You perceived it, but that's that's that's what in fact that's verbatim what he said. I don't.

I

Want to do deliveries unless it's for a big event and and so or or that the order is large enough.

I

To justify the cost and the inconvenience, was it good? No, he said he wanted to do it as a courtesy.

I

Yeah to someone who's buying a quantity for an event, but I see your point.

H

In the fact that, if we, if we make this a rule for big events, it should be allowed by other.

H

Liquor stores and because they have a violation, it shouldn't penalize the person ordering it.

H

Because of the liquor store having a violation, you see what I'm talking.

H

About I see what you're talking about, but I don't agree with exactly what you just said.

A

If they had a day in violation, just like right now,.

A

We ought to have the ability to say no, you may not be able to do that anymore.

A

You just had a violation yeah, but it should be a violation regarding this or a violation regarding.

H

Suppose, if it's a violation that was out of their control so well.

A

99 of the violations for sales, dividers is out of the licensee's control.

A

Right, technically, okay, but we still find them. My question would go to our legal advisor there.

A

Do we need a uniform set of rules, that's applicable to all applicants or.

A

Can we set certain limits? Well, I think the rules say that uh deliveries.

B

Are on a case-by-case basis for for these? um That's what it would be.

I

I kind of thought it was that too. But uh what is the rule again? What number is this? It's on page 53.

I

Delivery, retail sales- oh yeah, so it says generally subject to prior approval by the board.

I

And then the employee has to be over, 21 may deliver to a person over 21. and.

I

Deliveries must cease half an hour. That's the only guidance that the rule gives us.

A

So we say: okay keith, you can deliver if it's a.

A

Hundred dollar order, but jim you gotta have 250.. Can we do that.

M

And then you're opening yourself up you'd have to.

J

You'd have to justify that difference in treatment to avoid a lawsuit. What what I foresee.

A

In this type of situation is just like first case we had here as far as if hands and butts.

A

Breweries and distilleries were all hell bent on getting a license to do.

A

Exactly what they want to do at that time now they're expanding to this this and this.

A

A

Alcohol sales are going to be a joke as far as boards of commissions and so on and so forth.

A

Go way to the grocery stores, getting just what he just said. Grocery stores are going to get it.

A

This is going to get it and so on and so forth. Perfect example.

A

Probably the biggest wine event in the state of maryland is held in carroll county.

A

And this board now has nothing to do with it. That's true, because they weaseled in.

A

On something else that was never intended, just like the legislature does all the time.

A

Now the state has control of it, because.

A

Certain people, when certain organizations put more pressure on legislators and so on.

A

And so forth, they didn't really realize, like they don't have that time with legislation.

A

What it opens up.

A

The hundred dollars.

A

Probably came out of a suggestion that I was making just to use a figure of a.

A

Minimum of a hundred dollars! Well, when you, when you look at the price of alcohol and so so forth,.

A

Hundred dollars is not much case when a one-day license is issued. Okay,.

A

Where do they get their product package, good store.

A

So, in effect,.

A

It could be considered what we're considering here now.

M

Usually I mean usually before now the vendor. The one-day license goes to the liquors.

M

Now I know something to go to the distributors directly, but most of the time they go to yeah.

I

And you're talking about one day license for a big event like a graduation party, crap, a boring oyster.

H

Rest so with this, that would allow the package good store to deliver to that one day. Event: yeah.

H

And see I could I could see where that would be an advantage to the to the one day event.

H

They wouldn't have to go and get it. Maybe instead a dollar amount. You should make it.

C

Alcohol for a certain number of people that you know there must be at least 100 guests or patrons.

A

Yeah, I I understand what you're saying and I agree with you a little bit, but you can have.

A

A hundred people there and only 50 of them might be drinking.

I

Plus would be hard to keep track of yeah.

I

But that's a but that's a that's an alternative to raising a threshold.

I

Dollars is not much, that's for sure, um yeah and and you and you don't want to.

I

Have a bunch of kids having a 21 year old friend, right, yeah and so the higher the cost.

A

You know when I stop and think about it just now hundred dollars for some of the people.

A

That I've heard talk about wine and so forth. Hell that's a drop in a bucket. So it's one bottle.

I

Yes, nothing yeah. I I think we agree that that threshold is waiting to be worked for too long.

M

That's three cases of beer. Four cases, one bottle of blends is 150.

H

I can spend 50 a night on beer, it's easy just like more like. Can you drink it all night? Yes,.

A

See you guys, you guys are not being customers of this product, of which.

A

Can we this old man very seldom drinks, anything anymore and when he thinks of a.

A

Beer he thinks of a dollar beer, you know what are they four or five dollars? Man.

A

Can we can we table this and discuss this later? I don't think we could do it keith, but.

A

In my opinion, we're going to come back to the same thing if we're going to put a dollar limit on it,.

A

What's it going to be, I think at least I would think at least 500 what I think 500. I think.

O

But all these kind of problems you never had to deal with before so and then, if you.

M

Talk about violations if they violate have violated recently, does that disqualify him.

A

According the way that rule reads right now, we can do anything right. You can do anything you want so.

M

Two of the three liquor stores darren barnes is requesting have violated within the last year.

I

We can take that consideration. I guess I should have brought a flute chart with me. I have this right here.

I

I believe it's just that I would need to. I would have thought about this before you know.

M

I just think should be something to do, but it opens disgustingly. It opens up some problems.

I

Liability problems yeah exactly right if, if we or several, but if we prove some.

I

And don't approve of others without reasonable justification. I I think this board has discretion.

I

Legally to to make a judgment on this as long as as we can reasonably justify, and and not even.

I

Overwhelmingly, just if we have a reasonable reason to do it.

I

I agree, I agree, I think I I I agree with that and I just want to have one set of rules. Don't give me.

M

Three different rules for three different players: one rule one form.

I

Well, different players, because that's it because you have the discretion of saying.

M

No to them, so if they have a violation, you don't give them new rules. You just say no.

M

Or you say no for a year come back to us in a year, if you, if you can.

M

Show that you don't no more violations, yeah.

A

Well, let me just make a comment that, in my opinion, the biggest liquor store in carroll county.

A

Would care less about deliveries or anything else.

M

But um total discount they might, they might deal deliveries. Do what.

M

Total discount is either the biggest or second biggest the book right.

M

I could see them doing delivery. Is there anybody doing a delivery? Now that we don't even know about.

I

No one I know about well, it's been intimated.

I

But we don't know right, we don't know, I don't know I I did did put an email out.

M

And people had questions and they have stopped delivery. Okay, let me ask you legally helps here.

A

If I call up gambler lickers tomorrow,.

A

And say I'm having a party- and I want this this this this and this.

A

And he says: okay, I want to deliver again referral.

A

What's preventing from doing it now I bought it, probably nothing you can take it down there.

I

Nobody would know, maybe it says, has had prior approval.

I

But nobody who would do it? Oh that's enforcement issue, but it's violation of our rules. Right.

I

You can only deliver with prior approval of the board.

I

And the person delivering has to be 21.

I

And delivery has to be made to someone who's. 21. does rule 51, give you the ability to individualize.

H

In case the case, that's what I'm I'm wondering. Does it give you that ability? I believe it does.

I

Okay, this is prior approval, you know it doesn't say, shall or does it say, shall not so approval.

I

Prior approval means discussion and discretion and improving or not approving.

I

And there's no guidance in these rules as to what we you know what the criteria are for.

I

Either just as a discretion- and you know generally, this board board of commissioners has.

I

An important role, wise commissioners has a fair amount of discretion in interpreting the rules.

I

If someone's agreed, they appeal it, but the appellate court circuit court is going to.

I

Give great difference to our discretion unless there's no reason to support it.

I

Now, that's just a that's just a thumbnail sketch and I could be off on that because.

I

You know tim will know better about the pellet process. I do what.

A

What would be a reasonable amount if somebody's having a anniversary or a wedding reception.

A

What would be a reasonable about, say, you're going to have 50 people there? How much alcohol is about.

H

I can tell you from my son's wedding that we got married in august and we bought everything.

H

From rite aid, my personal opinion is, I think, a minimum of a thousand dollars for a big event.

H

We paid 2500. yeah, but you have more than 50 people. Well, that's why I'm saying it.

H

Make it a minimum of a thousand dollars that that would describe a big event to me. But.

M

Yeah I mean, I think a hundred dollars is way too low. What would you put it in there for you? Don't.

A

Want to hurt the paper, because that's what we discussed at the at what with darren said, he's.

M

You guys have talked about 100 hours, so actually I think we had several numbers out there. Okay,.

M

That's the one I pay attention to 400 is when I remember 250 before that. 100 don't remember.

A

100 was banded around just because probably I said at least 100 now as a as a figure to start.

A

With you know hell, I don't know how much well that that's what this that's! What this discussion is.

A

A bottle of whiskey, for I don't know how long pour a six pack of.

A

I can beer you. A glass of wine is too damn much because it's eight dollars and a half of it.

A

I mean the flip side is the liquor store is going to want to do it for a good amount of.

M

Money to make money on this deal, so I don't think they're going to do it for a six pack of beer.

M

I think we should just leave up to our liquor stores to decide if it's worth delivering.

M

But I'm more pro delivery than you guys are. I don't understand that and I think I think.

M

Deliveries, a lot of times is cheap, is safer than having someone drive up in the car to a liquor.

M

Store that that might be intoxicating because they ran out of liquor into buying some more.

M

So I rather have the person at home or delivery and get delivered alcohol, so he stays at home. Well,.

H

See then you're talking about individual person, delivery, not big, event delivery. Well, I I said I.

M

Like the rule as it is, we talk about the delivery form and I know I'm pro delivery. You guys are not.

M

I think we should just make let the liquor stores decide what their, what their minimum.

M

Is and put the responsibility on them to do what they're supposed to and if it's to make.

M

If they think they can make money on a hundred hours, then it should be hard hours if they think.

M

They have to make a thousand dollars to make to make money. Let the liquor stores decide.

I

It's also easier for underage drinking. It's no because it's the same. It's the same thing.

M

Sir, it's the same thing with a kid: that's 21 years old goes into the extraordinary as six.

M

Guys in the car in the parking lot, he walks out with three cases of beer and gets in the car.

I

If you take it to a house, okay, that's different than someone driving up to your store and looking.

I

At it, why how's it different? Because you don't know because the delivery person.

I

Could show up and deliver it to it to a 21 year old, shoots a card and there's 15 kids.

I

In the basement, okay, you sell you're working at a local store. It won't be 15. Kids in the car.

M

What would, if there's six kids in the car less than 15 it's it's easier for for a teenage.

I

Party to have it delivered then for teenagers to go out uh in a car and buy it and drink it.

M

But you that's you're, relying on the liquor store to do the right thing and I think most I think, all.

M

The looking for you when, when you say that you're pro delivery, you're relying on liquor, store to do.

I

The right thing too, and I think I think they will, I think, if they get to a part house and.

M

It has a bunch of kids in it, I think they ever say no. Do they walk out and look in the car that.

M

Yes, they do, I know, like rite aid. If someone comes in that's on a 21, they won't serve them. Well, I.

H

Know that they card everybody right so what's the difference then go out and look in the car and see.

H

If anybody's in there, when somebody walks out with three cases, yes, I don't think they walk out in the.

M

Parking lot now we used to have a program, cops and shops that we used to do that, but that long.

M

Since gone so, you think that delivery does not increase the possibility of underage drinking.

M

No, I don't think it does.

M

Because I think the same thing: if, if six guys want to get together and get someone's 21 years,.

M

Old they're gonna go, buy three three cases of beer and go sit in the field.

M

It's you know: they're gonna bring they're gonna, bring the alcohol anywhere they're.

M

Gonna bring the alcohol either they get delivered to that field or that house.

M

Or they bring they go to liquor and have someone who's 21, who buys it and brings it.

A

Keith, let me ask you a question: you catch that 21 year old, that's going to take it to a group.

A

Who is going to get penalized? The 20 the 21 year old should get penalized the most.

M

He should be criminally charged, you'd, not not look aboard hearing he should get. 21 should be.

M

Criminally charged this board can't do anything about it. Correct. I don't think that's because the.

J

Board doesn't understand, but the violation occurs on behalf of the liquor store or the licensee.

M

How, how can you hold them accountable for a true sale? Maybe do someone who's over 21.

A

We just had a review of a case for deliveries, okay, which left an awful lot to be desired.

A

And I, for one, don't buy the excuse that was given to us. Okay, which case we talk. I don't.

M

I don't I'm not going to mention any names, because.

A

We only reviewed one.

A

A

We didn't do anything about it, but I I don't believe the excuse that was given.

A

And I don't believe that that was a complete form that was uh oh, okay, okay, yes,.

M

I know it's doing that. Okay same thing, same thing could happen on this.

A

I I agree same thing can happen any time right, you're, relying on the liquor stores to do what.

M

You're supposed to do and I'm trustworthy, the liquor stores do what they're supposed to do.

M

They're they're not going to stop they're telling you they're, not they're, going to.

A

Be lacks just like they are now otherwise. We'd never get any violations in here and.

A

They're, not all pure snow white.

A

Humans are involved and humans make mistakes. Another thing is that.

H

You might want to think about is this. This actually can can pick chew, winners and losers.

H

Because we could give this permission to barnes on all his establishments.

H

So if people know that he's the only one- that's that's delivering that just.

H

Buy from him and and not buy from another liquor store, so I mean it it's. It would have to be all or.

H

None right, I agree. All anybody who delivers should be using f1. If I just say you should you know it.

M

Should not be a limit on the dollar amount? I think you know you're. I think I trusted the delivery.

M

If the, if the liquor store, thinks they can make money on a six pack of beer delivering, it.

M

That, then, let them do it if there has to be a hundred dollars, their minimum.

M

Order has to be 100, I think the liquor store should decide what the number should be and.

M

If I go in six months and check them in it- and I know they're.

M

You know, there's no form filled out and I believe the delivery. Then I can do something about it.

M

If I go to liquor stores, I'm going to put my business habit: okay, okay.

M

That liquor store okay, whoever makes that delivery.

A

In order for their insurance to be applicable has to have the proper insurance.

A

And if you check your automobile policies, okay,.

A

Do them close, there's an exclusion now? Okay, all the major companies has got an exclusion in there.

A

Pizza delivery, any kind of delivery you're not covered okay,.

A

It costs a heck of a lot more money to have an endorsement added to that and how many women's got.

M

To do it and one way they get around it, they make they make the employee contracted employees right.

M

But I'm saying, but it takes away from the liquor store- is not held responsible on the insurance.

M

Side, let these two guys get involved in it you'll find out that they will finally get back to them.

A

Anyway, we got to move on here. Do we want to uh discuss this any further or we want to.

A

Come back next month.

A

You don't convince me that the hundred ought to be five, at least if we do it.

I

I'd like to chew on it come back next month, I like to think about what keith said.

I

And what other board members have said? I think we should all right we'll table until next month.

A

1204 by my watch, we're going to journey and go to lunch now come back well, you're going to be.

A

Back till 2, 30. yeah we'll come back early or not do some of the rest or you want to.

A

Do it now, gentlemen, we only have like four more than three more to do. What do you mean you got.

M

Three where'd you go to school. You got seven on mine, one two, three four five more to go.

M

These guys are coming in at three o'clock yeah, that's right because that's coming in three! Oh.

I

Someone's coming in at three o'clock, uh cnr club's coming at three o'clock, ken burr come at 3 15.

A

All right we're going to table the letter from from there.

A

One day liquor license requests for an outdoor event by copper, mine cascade lake, for an adult.

A

Egg hunt on april the 9th- this is a new event. In my opinion, that's ridiculous.

A

And they want to have alcohol for easter eggs.

S

This is a new event. Is this in sykesville? No, it's cascade lake sounds like something. It sounds like.

A

It's like something: don't come from the site: phil they drink down there. Maybe the plastic eggs are.

C

Going to hold many miniatures well, we have a lions club, easter egg hung at finksburg library, and we.

A

Can't even use eights anymore, we got wooden eggs that you pick up and go back and get prizes for.

I

It's a family event, yeah for the first half and then they're closed down and then they're going.

M

To make an adult and there's prizes in the the the adult eggs for different restaurants,.

M

And different things throughout there and the adults are going to get the add-on eggs.

M

And they're going to have adult milkshakes again I keep the last thing. They did that you thought they.

I

Did really well christmas light yeah the christmas light one they did real well, it was well attended.

M

No problem, I didn't hear any complaints. Everybody had a good time. Somebody you, one of you guys, will.

H

Be that there right yup, I think we already let him give it a try and see how it goes.

I

I think I think it's very enticing yeah. I heard that looking at the itinerary, okay, I have no.

A

Objections one day, liquor license requests for an outdoor event, but downtown sykesville connection.

A

For their art and wine festival on may 7th 22. any objections. No, do you need to see this? Mr.

H

Barnum, I don't know, I don't know one day, liquor license requests from carroll county ag center.

A

For two outdoor events april 29 30 and for tractor pool fundraiser june 11th for a celtic festival.

A

We've had those too, you guys know: we've we've proved these in the past. When did they have a.

A

Selfie festival in the past kilted cancer. No it's inside it's inside the ike center.

A

He doesn't answer a question. It should be an inside event. Usually it's inside of the music.

M

The tractor pool is outside right, but this this celtic event should be inside. That's.

M

When they've had, I know they feel that wrong. I guess I don't know, I don't know.

M

I mean the thing I'm asking you is: when did they have the celtic event before? I don't remember.

M

That's true: yeah they've had it. They have one of those not last year before.

I

Before several years before yeah- I don't remember- has has concerts involved. Yes,.

M

It's inside that you know, and they said well, I'm looking for a bass player so.

J

Any objections to that no.

A

Request from stables to whole deck party starting this spring well,.

A

When they say deck parties they're just out on the parking lot like they always have yes soon,.

M

Yes, there'll, be date: there'll be dates in different, so I think it's just every saturday.

M

They're going to have a roped off parking lot, so it's not it's! It's the deck, plus the parking lot.

M

They've had that when they say yeah that deck's only like a foot off the ground, yes yeah, do you.

C

Want to see that it's a ground deck! Oh! Is it the same? One yeah you want to see them. I don't.

A

It's a ground deck and to have bands around deck. Yes, before that the bands had to face a certain.

I

Way, yeah ben has to face towards 97 requests from green mount bowl to have a cornhole tournament and.

A

Have outdoor seating, we have we improved this during the covet. It was a temporary approval.

M

They have sort of half door seats and to be inside now they wanted to add corn hole to.

M

The outdoor sorry face screen station bowling, greenmount bowl, it's between greenway station.

M

And the bowling on the left-hand side, the parking lot so they're just changing the footprint. Yes, oh.

I

Yeah well, green mountain bowl owns all the parking lots right and it'd be coming through their door.

M

To the side door, so everybody has to come in through the main entrance to get to the outdoor.

M

Area do what do you have any problem with that? No okay, so there's a side door to the left of the.

M

Green, my pole, there's a there's a side door right there in the front. That's how they're going to get.

M

To the outdoor area, so you have to walk through the bowling area to get to the outdoor area.

I

Is there a char? Is there a diagram? Yes,.

A

The only reason I say is we're right: I couldn't just walk in there if it's.

M

Because it's better to have them walk through it.

M

So that the manager can see who's walking in, I understand all that I'll just.

A

A

So there's no outdoor access, no it's outdoor! There's that door accident well, no.

I

Right you access it from the out of doors; yes, okay! So what's that, what's that dotted partition.

M

That's the fence line, okay, so all right, I got it now, I'm glad you got it any objections. No.

A

Okay, the next one we gotta wait till three o'clock.

A

Anything else to be brought before us will we dismiss for lunch or adjourn for lunch.

A

I think the ken brewer is that easy, that's a that's a 3 15.! That's.

M

That's blaise pizza. Yes, he has a new new agreement. Oh good.

A

Any objections.

A

Mr dixon, please call case number 6378, please all right case 6378, an application for new class d.

B

Beer only liquor license to be issued to raymond tignell, jr and william devers for the use of.

B

Liquidity aw llc trading, as liquidity, l works, eight north main street mount airy, maryland and.

B

Election district 13. and to file this matter, we have the following documents:.

B

A march 7 2022 letter from kelly schaefer miller to border vices commissioner.

B

A notice of public hearing dated february 25th 2022.

B

A notice of public hearing dated february 18 2022.

B

B

From joe vance to belinda gazelle collections office with the box.

B

Check the above referenced establishment does meet the requirements of this office.

B

Okay, I'm sorry. This is from lisa stanley, with the health department dated february 17, 2022.

B

There's a memo from.

B

No vance to to the town of mount airy with the box check the above reference establishment.

B

Does meet the requirements of this office from the director of planning and zoning.

B

There is a memo from jovans.

B

To belinda gazelle collections office with the box check the above referenced establishment.

B

Does meet the requirements of this office dated february 14 2022. there's a february 10.

B

2022 letter from jovans to mr ronald carr revenue, specialist comptroller of the treasury.

B

There's a february 10 2022 letter from jovans to mr raymond tyknoll jr and mr william devers.

B

About the hearing today march 9th 2022 there's a february 8.

B

2022 letter from kelly shaffer miller to board of licensing.

B

Commissioners and there's an application in the application includes character. References.

B

Criminal background information, a lease workers, comp insurance driving record.

B

Adjacent establishments.

B

Foreign plot plans.

B

Operating agreement.

B

Financial ownership, information, corporate information and sdat.

B

And irs information, I would ask that the file be entered into evidence.

A

Will accept that in evidence this time I would ask all those who intend to testify in this case.

A

Please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by mrs banks.

C

Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of surgery, that the testimony you're about.

C

To give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing. Thank you. Thank you. Donald y'all may be seated.

A

Miss kelly welcome back you make the scene. Thank you good afternoon, kelly shaffer miller,.

U

M-I-L-L-E-R 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157, I'm here today on behalf of the.

U

Applicants liquidity, ale works, but seated to my right is mr billy beavers and seated to my.

U

Left I had to think about that. One for a second is mr raymond tignall. So you have heard from mr.

U

Dixon's introduction of the file that we are here today requesting a class d beer only license with.

U

Off-Premises privileges: this is an up-and-coming brewery located in mount airy, downtown mount airy.

U

They are going to lease space right off of the main street down in mount airy and.

U

You'll hear testimony today of their business plans and everything they are.

U

Kind of they have a full business plan to open this brewery, but they are changing careers. If you.

U

Will at least um yeah both of you are changing careers, and this is their their new business.

U

Enterprise- and you will hear testimony from both of them today here requesting this license.

U

With that, if there are no opening questions I'll start testimony.

U

Please, okay! Thank you, uh mr tignall. Please uh introduce yourself stating.

U

Your name and address uh spelling your last name for the board raymond signal, jr.

V

L t-I-g-n-a-l-l my address is 5 2 0 0 equestrian drive, sykesville maryland 21784.

U

And you are aware and signed the application package. That's been submitted to this board.

U

Requesting a class d beer license correct, yes, and you reside in carroll county. Is that correct.

U

Yes, you are, are you a registered voter and taxpayer in carroll county? Yes,.

U

The purpose of this application- you heard me state in my opening, but I'd like to ask you.

U

To uh say is it for the operation of a brewery and an associated tap room that is correct. It.

V

Is for the brewery and an associated taproom, and are you currently the holder of a a class five.

U

State manufacturing license for the brewery. Yes, we are okay. When did you receive that approximately.

V

uh Last thursday or friday, okay, you also heard me introduced by saying that this location is.

U

In mount airy is that accurate that it is okay and you will be a lessor of the space correct.

U

Correct you submitted with your application the plan, the floor plan and the site plan, and also.

U

This I the the copy that I'm going to refer to I just supplemented that was the march 7th letter.

U

And I just want to make sure that what you're looking at is is color a color copy in the file.

U

I can also share it. I should have printed a few more if you don't have.

C

Yeah there's floor plans here: okay, are they in color? I think it's really, namely the last page.

H

Yes, we'll walk through the floor plan, but if there are any questions where it's helpful.

U

To come up and point things out, please let us know because I know there's sometimes it's a.

U

Little difficult to follow. um Okay, mr tignel, I'm showing you the floor plan, which is three pages.

U

And then the site plan which follows that as the fourth page? Okay- and this is what has been filed.

U

With your application, so I just kind of want you to walk us through the floor plan. This is a.

U

Three level space is that correct, correct, okay, so start with the mezzanine level, which is the first.

U

No sorry, the first page is the basement start with the basement. Please yeah, absolutely yeah.

V

Go ahead, yep, so I'll just work our way up through the building. uh It is a three level building with.

V

A basement uh the basement has site access from the back, so it's one level below street level.

V

Basically, the building is divided up into two general spaces. The basement will be used.

V

For all brewery operations, so we'll do all our brewing in the basement. We'll have cold storage.

V

Some mechanical electrical water rooms, so some support space we'll have a bathroom down there.

V

For employees only and then we'll have a room for canning.

V

And keg washing and also some storage, space for dry, storing materials and things like that.

V

Moving up into the building the first floor is the main level. That level will be the primary tap room.

V

Location, so we will have a bar in one corner of the building: they'll open onto the tap room.

V

The tap room is essentially the length of the building, maybe about half of the square footage.

V

And then the rest of the square footage is an old bank vault that we're going to use for storage.

V

And also multi-occupant bathrooms to serve the tap room um and then.

V

Moving upstairs there's a mezzanine level which is open to the first floor level.

V

That'll be used as additional tap room space, primarily when we're getting.

V

Fully occupied down on the main level, so that's kind of a swing space area for us as.

V

More people are there on busier times of the day and on the page that shows the site plan.

U

Overall site plan you see that green shaded area can you describe the outdoor.

U

Component of the use as well yep absolutely um so the green shaded area is basically a.

V

Representation of what is in the lease document, so our landlord is going to construct a patio to the.

V

I guess that's the south side of the building um so plan the left side, um so that is a street.

V

Level patio area that will be cordoned off uh for use as an outdoor space adjacent to the.

V

Tap room itself, there will be a door to get you in between those two areas. There's also.

V

A set of stairs next to the building that gets you to the back side, where the parking lot is so the.

V

Plan north portion of that green is actually going to be a beer garden that we're going to put.

V

In the back, um that will only run temporarily for special events, and things like that. It'll also be.

V

Cordoned off um so we'll have some fencing to designate where the alcohol can be consumed and.

V

Where the limits of that are, and um we're going to run, just a small tap um basically out of the.

V

Brewery to service that area, so you you're, jumping straight into my next question, on the plans.

U

Which is good um on the plans? Can you show us where the points of service are? I mean well.

U

Actually, before I ask you that question, let me ask you: will there be table service at certain times.

U

Yes, absolutely um do you have a pla, like is the mezzanine level, for example, going to be.

U

Table service versus me walking up to a counter yeah, so um I guess I'll answer both of these.

V

It kind of makes sense, uh so the main point of service will be on the main level.

V

At the bar um in that tap room area, um we will have some walk-up service there, but we're also.

V

Going to staff with at least four people, two bartenders and two table servers that'll be.

V

The minimum number of staff we have at any one time and we are going to go out into the tap.

V

Room and take orders at tables bring people their beer, so they don't have to get up and walk around.

V

Additionally, with respect to the mezzanine level, we will have an additional person, at least one.

V

On duty to service that area as table service, so we don't want people, it's a good flight stairs.

V

We don't want people moving up and down the stairs any more than they have to so we will.

V

Do table service at that location as well, um and then we will have an additional point of service.

V

In the basement, so right now, there's a drive through which will cordon off and will not allow.

V

Cars to drive through it, but we're going to set up a small, tap there and actually serve.

V

From the drive-through window, but not as a drive-through that serves the beer garden area.

U

Correct that is correct. um I'm sorry. Can I stop just one second, as I'm looking at the, I think.

I

The proposed first floor plan, when you say the point of service you're talking about the upper.

I

Left-Hand quadrant, as as you're looking at the floor plan, that is correct. Okay, all right thanks.

U

Explain the points of entry to the building and the outdoor spaces like? How do I get in.

U

How can I get into the patio? How can I get into the beer garden sure so the.

V

Main point of entry is the front door which is located planned south on the first floor plan.

V

That would be our primary point of entry for the first floor and the mezzanine level and the patio.

V

uh To the plant south of the building or true south of the building, um there is a communicating.

V

Door um on the plan left side of the first floor. That gets you between the patio and the bar.

V

Tap room area um so that'll be the primary way that people move from the patio in and out.

V

um We want to limit access from the street walking onto that patio, so we're going to force.

V

Everybody to move through the main front door and then come out the side door in and out.

V

For the beer garden, like I said, we are going to coordinate off with fencing and things like.

V

That to designate the area, and then we will have a street level entrance off the back side.

V

To get you in and out of that area, we're going to position that entrance close to the tap area.

V

So that we can keep an eye on it for anybody who's doing the service at that beer garden.

U

So between the table service and the actual the the physical stationary points of service in the.

U

Buildings is it fair to say that there will be you know the the entire area will be monitored.

V

uh Yes hundred percent, uh we will always have people on the floor serving and at the same time,.

V

Monitoring the population of the other building in terms of any service, that's happening on the.

U

Lowest level is, would it be accurate to say that that is, would only be during like a.

U

Brewery tour or something like there's not table, that's not intended to be an open floor plan.

U

With tables where somebody could you know, get service down there on a regular basis,.

U

uh It won't be on a regular basis, it'll be kind of more special event oriented. um We will do brewery.

V

Tours out of the back, um but that might not even involve the beer garden being open at that point,.

V

um So it's really just to support things that the town's doing mostly.

V

Special events, things like that um the town's also planning to do a farmers market out of our.

V

Parking lot, so we would probably run the beer garden to support that event as well.

V

But it would be on a limited basis. Do you have any intention of serving food like.

U

You are the one serving the food. No okay, um do you plan to work with food trucks? Yes, okay. Will you.

U

Allow food to be brought in from other locations. Yes, so if I wanted to to come to the brewery, I.

U

Could order carry out from somewhere on lorienzo's and take it into the brewery? Is that accurate.

U

Yes, okay yeah. We actually have a partnership with lorienzas that'll. Allow you to order your pizzas.

V

At our place and they'll deliver it even easier. um Have you thought about your anticipated days and.

U

Hours of operation, yes, okay, can you tell the board absolutely so we will be closed monday, tuesday,.

V

We will be open on wednesday three to eight thursday, three to eight friday.

V

Three to nine saturday 12 to nine and sunday 12 day, and you understand that under state law.

U

You're limited uh to to not be open later than 10 o'clock. Anyhow, state law is 10 to 10. Okay,.

U

You have applied for this license under an llc called liquidity. If aw correct correct, are you.

U

A member of that llc, yes, are there other members of that llc? Yes, who are they? The other members are.

V

William devers, my dad raymond signal senior and my father-in-law michael liberty. Okay, what is your.

U

Percentage of ownership interest in the llc, my percentage of mentorship is 75.1. Okay,.

U

Will you play well, let me ask you first what what what full-time career are you transitioning from.

U

uh To do this brewery yeah absolutely so um right now I work for a large multinational.

V

Engineering firm called wsp, we do civil, structural, environmental property buildings. uh Basically, if.

V

It's engineering, we do it. um I am a vice president in uh office in columbia. Here.

V

In maryland, um and we primarily deal with property and building side of things, we do.

V

Mechanical electrical plumbing design, for mostly the hospital sector.

U

In starting the brewery, will you play an active role in the day-to-day operation of this business.

U

Absolutely can you explain what your role in the business will be yep, uh so I will be there.

V

Between five seven days a week and when I'm not there.

V

William will be there supporting managing generally overseeing operations.

V

William is more of the brewing side of the business, um so he'll be essentially the brewmaster.

V

Owner um and I'm more of the sales bookkeeper and all things spreadsheet-related, I guess, but.

V

I'll also be helping william do all the brewing, um we're a two-man team. We share responsibility and.

V

One of us will be there anytime, it's open to the public and even when it's not open to the public.

U

You kind of you you in a nutshell, explain your relationship with the other members of the llc.

U

But can you explain your relationship with with william aka who I've been calling billy.

V

um Of course, um so I've known billy for 20 years, our relationship goes back to.

V

College when he was friends with my wife, so we've known each other for a very long time.

V

He has wanted to do this for even longer than I have.

V

And when I started to formulate this and get things together, I asked him if he'd be interested.

V

In partnering up with me- and he was more than happy to do that- um thankfully- and for the past.

V

Year or more, we've basically been in some sort of active planning um to make this thing a reality.

V

um Like I said, he's he's more than the brewery operations side of things.

V

And I'm more of the uh bookkeeper, but again as a two-man team, uh we're gonna have to.

V

Do everything um and as we staff up, we can start to think about shedding.

V

Some of those responsibilities to other management level staff and things like that.

U

Do you intend to be alcohol awareness, training certified yep? Absolutely um so we will be.

V

I am currently registered in the stars program. The stars program is a tips equivalent for the.

V

Brewery industry, it is recognized by the state of maryland. I will say that our insurance.

V

Requires that everyone who serves alcohol is tips stars or equivalent certified.

V

So we will get everyone who is working and serving certified before they begin that activity.

V

I am hoping to be finished the training by friday of this week and that training.

U

I'm not sure to the how familiar the board is with that, but that training.

U

Covers similar information as tips training in terms of how to card how to spot an intoxicated.

U

Person and those big aspects is that correct. That is correct. Okay, and you said that that.

U

Is recognized by the state correct, it is yep and pushed by the burr association.

U

Have you, um in addition, you just stated that all staff who serves will be tips or star certified.

U

In addition to that certification and that training program have you and billy discussed.

U

An in-house training program that you'll put employees through uh yeah we have, and I print it.

V

Out so I don't screw this up. Can you like just walk us through what that looks like yeah.

U

And the details of that absolutely um so we talked about the stars or tips training, we'll probably.

V

Be doing stars for most of the people, it's a little more accessible. It's an online program.

V

But everyone as soon as they come in before they really come in we'll have to do that. Training.

V

We're also going to have a couple different things that we do to make sure that people are aware of.

V

Rules and regs so we're going to have a notice of rules and diversion program associated with.

V

The state diversion program so we'll have training material associated with that that.

V

The employee will have to sign after reading it we'll also have a vertical id and carding policy.

V

That the employee will have to sign pause. What is the vertical id policy? So the vertical id policy.

V

Is that we will not accept vertical ids, um we also will be carting everyone who walks through the.

V

Board, okay and sorry not to interrupt you again, but um the diversion program you're, referring.

U

To the diversion program that this board has with this, the carroll county states, attorney's office.

U

Correct correct: okay: um do you want to continue yes, so we also will make all the employees.

V

Become familiar with carroll county liquor, boards rules and regs, so we will have another.

V

Basically, pamphlet and thing for our employees to sign after they've reviewed.

V

The applicable rules and regs um then we'll have things like pos instruction just to get.

V

Them up on how to operate our pos system, and things like that.

V

And then finally, we're gonna have every employee shadow somebody for a period of time, um because.

V

We're gonna kind of be very shift oriented. um I don't want to put that in days. So it's a minimum.

V

Of 16 hours of shadow time with an employee who's already gone through the training program. Okay,.

U

Do you have, I mean you spoke about at any time? You'll have four employees.

U

Do you have people in mind? Have you started hiring? What's the status of that.

V

So we do have some people in mind. We have not started the hiring search in pertitude, um but.

V

We do have some people that have already basically volunteered to come out for us, which is great. We.

V

Completely appreciate that we do have some people in mind for some of our more important roles like.

V

Taproom manager um and then the more managerial positions, so we're actively searching those out.

V

And trying to get those people on boarded and then we'll have a more formal, just general kind of.

V

Search for taproom employees, servers bartenders and things like that.

U

Do you have any anticipated hopeful opening date.

V

uh We do right now, I'm putting it at mid-may, so may 15th. If you want to think about it. That way,.

V

We've actually gotten a lot of the paperwork done, and it's really a matter of getting the building.

V

Finished um so we have gone through first round permitting with.

V

um Carroll county uh we're actually going back in with our responses this week.

V

And then, with the lead time, issues that almost everybody's experiencing getting certain things, it.

V

Kind of makes it tough um to really nail down that final date, but right now we're saying midnight.

U

And you heard me state this in my introduction, but I'll ask you: are you requesting permission.

U

From this board to be able to sell product for off-premises consumption, yes, okay,.

U

And you also concurrent with this application, submitted an application.

U

For a growler permit is that correct. That is correct. Okay,.

U

What type of product would you I mean? Well, I guess I shouldn't say what type like.

U

How is the product that you would sell for off-premises consumption, um packaged.

V

Yeah, so we are planning on doing two types of off-premise consumption sales. One is cans.

V

um And then the other would be growlers, um the weather, cans or growlers will have the appropriate.

V

Warning labels and notifications they'll all be tagged with our logo and our name.

V

You know growlers will be sealed. Basically, all the things that carroll county uh rules.

V

And rights requires for growl ourselves well, and I was also, I think you were kind of leading into.

U

This but I'll ask you: you understand that you're also subject to any restrictions that the state.

U

Law imposes on any sale of off-premises of beverages for off-premises consumption, as.

U

Well, correct, yes, okay, um you understand, and I've explained to you that, even though you've.

U

Applied for this license as an llc that you are personally responsible for purposes of this.

U

Liquor board and this liquor license. Is that correct, that's correct! um You are familiar with.

U

And have reviewed the carroll county rules and regulations. Is that correct? Yes, I have okay and.

U

Are you willing to comply with those regulations? Yes, those are my only questions of mr tignel.

A

A

You water to consume and do you need a permit, and maybe you already got it from the town for.

V

Appropriation award, um that's a great question and very timely since I was.

V

Talking to our landlord about this today, um so we're going to hit my estimate.

V

Or estimate is a peak daily usage of about 1, 111 gallons per day for brewery side.

V

We are currently working with the town right now to get a water allocation.

V

uh For the building, uh our landlord is doing that through uh his civil engineer.

A

So you don't actually have a permit this time for an allocation of x, number of gallons.

V

uh We do not know.

V

We've had conversations with the town about it, but we don't have their formal approval yet.

A

Second, question is, I assume you have a business plan? Yes, we do or how long.

V

So I have projections by month for the next five years. Among those plans are.

A

There any plans or indications in there that you have a class d license now.

V

To include any future alcohol sales or food sales per se, that would.

A

Indicate that you need a different class of license. uh No sir, our business plan does not.

V

Anticipate any food sales, it also doesn't anticipate a need for a change in licensed class.

A

Remember your own record. Yes, sir.

I

um Mr tigno, the.

I

Is this an old bank? It is yes um the basement floor.

I

um Does that open out to the proposed beer garden? This does okay.

I

That's the only question I have in a second. If uh I have a question for you well.

J

Mr barnard's looking up his uh information, um so you describe uh having a pull through type service.

H

Where a window um where they could get beer, is that explain to me if you, if you don't mind how.

H

That would work sure absolutely um so, because it's an old bank building it does have a drive-through.

V

Non-Functional at this point, uh but we thought it would be.

V

Interesting if people could walk up to the drive-through um as a point of service location,.

H

Certainly, walk up only absolutely yeah. There won't be any there's. No actual um cars driving.

V

Through everything will be cordoned off and it's not it's in the parking lot, but it we won't allow.

V

Cars anywhere near the ground and how many points of service are you going to have in this brewery.

H

Just two just two yep and they will be open. Both of them will be open during your hours.

H

Of operation uh potentially yes, um the the drive-through uh will not be open nearly as often.

V

When we're open to the public the first floor bar location will always be open. Okay and your.

H

My other question is you mentioned that that you will have a card, everyone that comes through the.

H

Door policy, uh as these breweries get get very popular and very crowded and there's a lot of.

H

People coming in there, how are you going to operate there? Are you going to have a doorman.

H

Or are you going to only cart people that come up try to purchase beer yeah? So I guess I should have.

V

Been clear on that we're not going to cart at the door. At least we don't plan on doing that at this.

V

Point we will cart everyone who is purchasing beer, whether that's at table service or at the bar okay,.

A

But will you have you will have table service, but will you also have.

A

Service at the bar other than servers, yes,.

V

Yeah we'll have seating at the bar and if I guess people want to walk up, although I.

V

Would hope our table servers are doing a good enough job that they wouldn't need to.

V

They will have walk-up service at the bar who's. Your brewmaster going to be.

H

Billy right here and what? What is your expected specific gravity of the beards that you're.

H

Going to be producing um it'll be all over the place a little bit. um You know a lot of people.

V

Are making some pretty high alcohol content beers, so their specific gravity is up in the.

V

um Geez 101, 8, okay or higher. We won't be right, sorry, 08 or higher. um We won't be up there very.

V

Much we're going to always go down to somewhere in the 0 kind of range and that'll typically produce.

V

Beers in the range of five to seven eight percent somewhere in there. Thank you. Can you.

I

Describe your beer garden, how about we set yeah? Absolutely so we're gonna, because it is in the.

V

Parking lot or driveway, if you want to think about it, that way, um we're gonna basically.

V

Provide some fencing uh provide a little bit of seating out there, we'll use actually the.

V

The drive through as a covered seating space, um and then we are just going to have some small.

V

Outdoor, like um lounge type furniture and things like that for people to sit up.

I

And the um it's cordoned off from the.

I

Adjoining parking lot, how all right have you thought that through yet yeah, we'll use.

V

Some nice looking kind of temporary fencing. I don't think we want to start digging into the.

V

Asphalt but we'll set something up to to make it clear that that's a separate area and we'll have.

V

Appropriate signage telling people you can't leave this area with alcohol and things like that.

I

Any other questions this stuff. No, not this time.

U

Thank you I'd like to call mr william devers. uh I will refer to him as billy, because that's how I've.

U

Come accustomed to calling him so billy. Can you please introduce yourself.

U

Stating your name and spelling your last name and your address for the record. Please.

S

I am william devers. My last name is spelled d, as in david e, a v is in victor e r s.

S

I live at 4311 wendy court in monrovia, maryland uh zip code 21770.

U

And is it true and accurate that you signed to the application package that's before this.

U

Board requesting a class d beer only license that is true. Okay, I'm I'm going to keep his.

U

Questioning pretty short, with the understanding that you might have many follow-ups, but.

U

Mr d, verse were you present, and did you hear all of mr tignel's testimony? Yes, I did okay and was.

U

That all accurate and true to the best of your knowledge, to the best of my knowledge, okay, so.

U

You've been engaged in developing a business plan and all of the characteristics of that and the llc.

U

That mr tignel testified to are accurate, correct, correct, okay and uh mr tignel said that you will.

U

Be the brew master. Is that an accurate description of your role in the business that is correct.

U

Will you go through the same certification? Stop the star program certification, mr tignel spoke.

U

About yes, okay, um and can you please tell us your percentage of ownership interest in the llc.

S

My percentage of ownership is 10. Okay. um Those are my only formal questions of mr devers.

U

Gentlemen questions mr davis. Well, I'm gonna go back to mr tignel for a second since, since mr.

I

Debers uh just testified that he has a ten percent pecuniary interest. I think you have 74 75.1 75.1.

I

Yes, sir, and the rest is owned by the other two gentlemen that you described as members of the.

I

Llc, that is correct. Raymond signal senior earns five percent and michael lewis earns 9.9. Thank you.

H

Mr dears, how long have you been at brewmaster? I have been home brewing since 2007., okay,.

H

But have you worked for any other brewery or no, if not my current.

S

Career is, I am a military cable engineer for a company called.

S

uh American computer development in frederick okay, thank you. Do you have a logo? Yet we do.

J

Not surprise you, I don't know.

F

Yeah, I know I know it's pretty small.

M

They're listed in google maps too all right. Thank you.

V

It's basically a beer bottle with a tie.

A

Pure bottle of flavor tonight.

U

It's probably not the most crisp quality image, it's there! So on your um your product that you.

I

Want to sell for off-premise consumption you're going to do a can and a growler yes and the cans.

I

Will I assume we'll have a logo like that on it to identify the product and graveler as well.

I

Absolutely your thought, yeah. That is also a requirement by the state. We will allow people to.

V

Bring other growlers in for fills but we'll check those growlers to make sure that they're properly.

V

Attributed and they have all the required health and safety and wash requirements and.

V

All that kind of language- and these are the ones they bought from you previously.

V

um Well, absolutely we will fill up our own, but can they be? Can the gravels be purchased.

I

Someplace else then come into your establishment and get your beer. Yes, as long as they meet the.

V

Requirements of the carroll county liquor board in the state yeah. Thank you, mr devers.

H

Do you have a specialty in the some type of beer that you produce like belgian strongholds or.

H

Ipas or my personal preference is ipas, but uh I have brewed many different kinds over the years.

I

Have either of you held a license before.

I

To sell alcoholic beverages, yes or even, to manufacture alcoholic beverages. Yes, sir.

H

So neither one of you have really any alcohol.

H

Experience as far as selling alcohol is that fair to say I do not um not really. um I did work as a.

V

As a bus boy in a restaurant, when I was 15, but I I don't think that gives me a whole.

H

Lot of experiences with the empty bottles- yes, that is true I'll, just clean up only.

I

And your policy will be not to accept vertical ids. That is correct. You'll have signage, perhaps.

I

In the uh your business, absolutely we'll have signage, that's customer forward so that they.

V

Understand that we don't accept those and we will have signage um server and bartender.

V

Forward to make sure that they are aware of the policy and do not accept the rural id.

I

And how far along are you on the remodeling and the alterations of whatever you're doing there.

V

um So I am hopeful that we will have our permit in hand by next week and that will allow us to really.

V

Start the renovation process in earnest we've been doing some things like acquiring long, lead item.

V

Equipment and parts and pieces uh just to pre-stage.

V

uh For the actual uh renovation itself, um but I am very hopeful that next week we'll be in there.

V

Working, do you have your brewing apparatus yet? um So our brew house is actually in production. um We.

V

Bought it from a company named alpha, they're out of the midwest, so that is in production right now,.

V

We actually received our shipment of fermentation tanks, spray tanks and serve tanks.

V

A week ago and in a harrowing experience, move those to a temporary storage location.

I

And you have all the brewing apparatus that you need to start waiting for anything in particular.

V

As soon as the brew house comes with a bunch of.

V

Additional ancillary equipment, we will be completely fit out and ready to go.

V

In mid-may, that was your thought. Yep.

A

Any other questions.

A

If not, do you have any other witnesses I do? I have. I have character witnesses here.

U

If it's, if it is amenable to the board, I can call three of them at one time.

U

There's one person here to testify for both of them and then one person each separately. So if.

U

If it's okay with you, I'm happy to call them all three at the same time or call them one by one.

A

Let's get on with it all right, why don't you all just line up with the microphone.

A

Who's singing bass well,.

F

U

Can we start with stating your name and address spelling your last name for the board? Please.

T

Good afternoon, matthew h, u r's and robert f and frank my address says: 2088.

T

Mountain ash court in hampstead, 21074 and matthew, who are you here as a character reference for.

U

I am a character witness for both mr tignel and mr devers. Okay,.

U

And so can you start by explaining how you know rey, uh whether it's socially or through work.

T

I know mr tignell for uh socially okay and how do you know uh billy? I know billy uh socially as well.

T

Okay, uh do you find ray to be an honest and trustworthy person? I do I do and do you find.

U

Him to be a fit and proper person to hold a liquor license. I do. I have 10 year old twins.

T

And I've trusted him to take one or either of them at any time, and it's always worked out.

U

um Are you familiar with the location that they've applied for I'm familiar with the.

T

Location: okay, and do you think that it will be a benefit to have a brewery at that location?.

T

I do, I think, it'll be a great addition to downtown mount airy. Okay, now speaking to mr.

U

Devers, um do you find him to be an honest and reliable person? I do and do you believe that.

U

He is a fit and proper person to hold a liquor license. I do have known him for many years and I.

T

Would say the same about mr devers? Okay! Thank you. Those are my only questions of mr herf. Thank you.

U

Please state your name spelling your last name and your address for the record. I'm.

K

Travis spicer s-p-I-c-e-r and it's 806 uniontown road westminster, maryland 21158 all right, travis.

U

And who are you here as a character reference for today, uh billy beavers, okay, and can you tell us.

U

How you know mr devers, I met him where I currently work, probably 10 to 15 years ago. Okay, and do you.

U

Find him to be an honest and reliable person absolutely, and do you believe that he is a fit.

U

And proper person to hold a liquor license. Yes, are you generally familiar with the brewery location.

U

That they've spoken about generally, yes, okay, those are my only questions for mr spicer. Okay,.

U

Please state your name spelling your last name and your address for the record dan.

K

4223 iroquois drive westminster, maryland 21157, okay, dan, and can you tell us who you are here.

U

For as a character, witness raymond okay, and how long have you known, mr tignel, about five years.

U

And do you know him socially or through work? Originally, how do you know? Okay, do you find mr.

U

Tignel to be an honest and reliable person, yes, do you believe that he is a fit and proper person to.

U

Hold a liquor license. Yes, are you familiar with the brewery location that we've spoken about.

U

Yes, do you believe that it will be an asset to have a brewery at that location.

U

Absolutely those are my only questions. Thank you. Questions.

A

Since all three have you testified, you know anything bad about any of them.

U

That concludes my testimony for today, unless the board has any.

U

Follow-Up questions of myself or the applicants.

A

Spectre: benford speak now forever hold your peace. If you have anything to say.

M

I think it would do wonders down mount area. I think it'd be a good area for that.

M

Business to thrive, um welcome into carroll county.

A

There's no other testimony. Testimony is closed at this time and we will move to final remarks very.

U

Brief final remarks: for you, I think that you have sitting before you two very qualified applicants.

U

With an excellent business plan, I personally and professionally I'm excited to see another brewery.

U

Come to carroll county! It's something that I am a customer of in the county and I think it's a great.

U

Asset to the community, and I do think that that mount area is a good location for an additional.

U

Brewery because we do have them scattered throughout the county and currently there is.

U

Not a brewery in mount airy, so I do believe that that will serve this area and that you have like.

U

I said very qualified applicants here before you with a solid business plan who have really thought.

U

This through and take it seriously and understand the seriousness of holding a liquor license.

U

And with that, I would ask that you grant the class d beer only license with the um ability.

U

To sell off premises for off-premises consumption, thank you inspector. Any followers, no no comment.

A

With that testimony is closed and we will now discuss the merits of the application.

A

Gentlemen, you have heard all the testimony and comments your final thoughts, mr barnhart, I I.

H

Personally, find them both qualified and fit and proper to hold a liquor license.

H

Both mr devers and mr tignell, it's very popular upcoming business. uh These breweries, I think, if.

H

Mount airy doesn't have one, I think, it'd be an excellent place to have one for the community.

I

All right: well, I agree with you, uh mr harmony.

I

I agree with everything that mrs miller said in our closing remarks.

I

I think that the testimony is clear from the applicants and from the witnesses.

I

That your reliable gentleman, your trustworthy gentleman and your fit and proper people to hold.

I

A liquor license in carroll county, um as, as ms miller remarked, it sounds me like you, have a.

I

Solid business plan, there are several things I do like about your testimony, obviously, that you.

I

Have a policy about accepting vertical licenses, which sometimes this board finds to.

I

Cause people some trouble as they appear before us, um and I I think that you are going to be.

I

You're going to create an excellent asset for the community, the liquidity, uh dale house and.

I

I would be prepared to make a notion, uh mr chairman, if that's acceptable, please proceed.

I

All right, mr chairman, in the case of 6378, which is an application.

I

For a new class d, beer only liquor license to be issued to raymond tignel, jr and william devers.

I

For the use of liquidity, aw llc trading against liquidity works, uh I knew that the application.

I

Be approved and that be approved to include uh off-premise consumption of the product uh also of.

I

Course I would add that the application is subject to the necessary approvals that you need from.

I

City and perhaps accounting any other government agency, but I'm hopeful that you'll get them.

I

And that is my mission mr chairman motion has been properly made. Is there a second I'd? Second, that.

A

Has been properly made and seconded that this board approve an application for a new class d.

A

Beer only liquor license to be issued to raymond tignel, jr and william devers for the use of.

A

Liquidity aw llc trading, as liquidity l marks at eight north main street in mount airy maryland.

A

With the understanding that all proper governmental agency procedures and so forth,.

A

Have been approved is there any further discussion on the motion? No hearing, none.

A

All those in favor, sigma 5, is saying: aye aye opposed no so order. Congratulations. Gentlemen.

A

We look forward to you having a very successful business and the best wishes. Thank you very much.

A

Thank you, gentlemen. Just one question: what's the population of mountain air does anybody know.

A

It's about ten thousand within the talents.

A

So, based upon the class d license.

A

Requires one for five thousand: well, there's another, no other classes in my area.

U

And if I didn't confirm that, as the first thing I'd be a bad lawyer, we assumed.

U

Might I say, though, perhaps we need to have a brewery license justice? I always assume and.

A

I probably shouldn't say that when you come before this board, your homework is complete.

A

Thank you not only from your own violation but from another gentleman who has been responsible.

A

For your being here, well I, if you'd like to give him credit, I'm sure he would love that. Thank you.

U

Please pass it along. I will thank you all very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Five minute recess before we go soon.

A

Okay, folks, we're back in session.

A

I assume these are mr aptly yes, sir. Yes, sir gentlemen, do you know why.

A

We ask that you would come speak to us. Yes, sir, yes, can you uh tell us.

A

What happened and uh what you have actions you may have taken to prevent this type of.

A

Engagement, yes, sir, certainly uh within the for my understanding from the opening on december 16th.

W

Official opening we had a couple soft openings, the first couple: weekends in december of 2021.

W

Was brought to our attention by um inspector uh keith, benford and chief snyder from the.

W

Hampstead police that there were three duis which, uh from the individuals that were pulled.

W

Over had referenced that they had left our establishment at some point that evening.

W

um One individual, I'm I'm not sure how much information you would like me to.

W

Share the one individual had two drinks and my understanding refused the breathalyzer.

W

There was another individual that we did stop serving when instructed to him. He told us that.

W

His girlfriend was driving him home, but that is not the case uh when he was pulled over.

W

uh We had not seen him in the establishment for two months since then, and then there was another.

W

Young lady, that is the cousin of one of my servers at the hampstead location.

W

That left the establishment and got into an accident or.

W

An accident later that evening, approximately 12 43, if I'm not mistaken christmas eve.

W

And the concern I have with that was that we closed our establishment at 11 p.m. That night.

W

So I'm not sure where the hour and a half to hour and 45 minutes happen with those three incidents.

W

And talking to inspector benford, we have since put in action what is called a? uh What is it.

W

Incident report form where, when we do stop service or recommend stopping service, whether or not.

W

um They have their, we asked if they have their own right. We've instructed all servers and bartenders.

W

uh To fill out this form and describe everything from the um appearance of the gentleman or woman.

W

For that matter, and then we print out the check we stable to it and then the interaction that we.

W

Have with that guest, as you can see, I brought since that I brought a folder full of them.

W

We have had some benefits from that. We haven't had a recent one since the middle of february, which is.

W

We're training our guests that they can't over get over served here and our staff as well.

W

Currently, I have 20 employees on staff right now with all, but six of them tip, ram or tam certified.

W

We are in the process of getting a certification for the six new hires that I've brought on.

W

We are partnering up with hampstead, liquor and main street liquor to be able to accommodate.

W

With them to be able to have the neighborhood, the block where that robertsfield shopping center is.

W

So, everybody's, on the same page, I spoke to mr eric soledo about getting involved with that.

W

um You know we have signs posted throughout the bar now, if you feel like you are unable to drive.

W

Please let us know, and we will find you a safe way home, whether it's one of us or an uber.

W

We have put up signs where you are not permitted to take alcohol outside, even if you want to smoke.

W

A cigarette out on our front stoop and then it is a constant communication. Every shift that we work.

W

Where we talk to the staff, inform the staff of the importance of it. We want our guests to have a fun.

W

But save time and we want the employees to have a fun and safe time of the three instances that.

A

Have been given to us, the first was on a friday december, the 10th, the next one, the following.

A

Saturday and the third one the following saturday and going back to the first one.

A

They uh blew a 0.22, which is almost three times what the minimum is.

A

And, according to the sheet we have here, it says a 32 ounce miller light now. You've only been open.

A

What since december december, and not to cut you off, but I find that interesting because we don't.

W

Serve 32 ounce, molar lights, we have pints and we have glass bottle. 12 our 12 ounce bottles.

A

Well, I'm just reading this from the report that we have here, but we understand it's.

A

Immaterial, whether it was 32 ounce bottle or whatever it was, it doesn't particularly.

A

Matter to me somebody what what is your procedure if somebody blew a .022.

A

uh This occurred sometime prior to midnight and you closed. You said at roughly 11, depending upon.

W

The business we have the license to be able to serve till 2, but since then we've done 250.

W

A quarter million dollars and after 11 o'clock we've of that time, since we've been open, we've.

W

Only done 1100 in sales, so we're usually shut down by 11 at the latest 11 pm. But my point being.

A

This actually occurred the first month that you were open if this was in december. Yes, sir.

A

What type of training did your bartenders or servers have prior to your opening and.

A

Consequently, after your opening- since this is a pretty short talk, yes, sir, uh when we.

W

When I did the interviewing process, any bartenders that I brought in at that moment.

W

One of the questions I would ask, and they had to show proof- would be that our alcohol management.

W

Training, whether it be ramp, tam tips, some type of certification that is active and not expired,.

W

And all hired at that point had that, so we could get the doors open to be able to open.

W

As far as bartenders go now as far as service go, that was not necessarily the case, because.

W

I needed servers to get the building open, but, as I've stated previously, we are on the process.

W

Of providing a training certification for them, those that do not have active.

W

Alcohol training. Do you have any other establishments? Yes, sir. I have one in towson.

A

How long has that been? uh We opened november of 2018.

W

And this past summer I want to say.

W

July august, we did a training for that store to re-up anybody that had not been trained.

W

But we were not open at this establishment. We had not hired anybody for the hampstead location.

A

Have you had any violations of the other stores? No, sir, we have not.

A

To acknowledge, do you know if you've been checked? Yes, sir? Yes, sir, we get checked all the time.

A

A little different than what they checked in carotene, yes, sir.

A

Serious violations, then the second violation and the third violation says two beers or a few beers.

A

What's a few beers, how many drinks would you serve a patron in an hour? The most people do is two.

W

I know the body has an hour to be able to absolve the alcohol in yourself, so.

I

Yes, you have a limit of two beverages an hour. We try to accommodate that. Yes, sir, that's.

I

It's playing safe. I think, yes, sir, it's a good policy to avoid this type of problem. Yes, sir, we.

W

We're much more of a restaurant. Our sales of that 250 I've stated 58 percent is food. 42 is liquor.

W

Beer wine, so it's it's a lot more of a restaurant as opposed to a bar um and based on this I mean.

W

It was uh to be frank, it was a kick in the gut.

W

um A little bit different than what I'm used to to be fair and we we've taken it very seriously.

W

Because, like I said, our safety of our guests and our our and my employees are top line.

H

What is your uh your restaurant in towson called cnr pub.

A

Where is it located right on pennsylvania avenue right by where the old movie.

W

Theater used to be in towson commons right across from the elves lodge.

J

A

We appreciate you uh coming in here and certainly wanting to.

A

See you successful, but these type of reports kind of raise alarms. This is quite unusual.

A

Within 60 days or so, three violations, duis.

A

Purportedly from your patrons kind of raises a red flag.

A

I assume that, as you mentioned, you have a training program for everybody that.

A

Handles alcohol, do you accept vertical license? No, sir! Absolutely not! I don't accept them in my.

W

Other bar as well, I want to add we also added a doorman on our busier nights to help alleviate.

W

Some of that pressure from the bartenders and we do card at the door when we have the doorman.

W

So that way, and then I've also instructed my servers and my bartenders that they are.

W

The card too, that way, there's a double, because I just you can't be more. I mean you can't be over.

W

Carding, in my opinion, what is your party policy? I'm sorry, you're, carding quality, everybody. Anybody.

W

That walks in for everybody, even this gentleman here so so when you have a doorman there does.

H

He use wristbands when he after he cards, so the bartenders can identify who's been carded and is.

H

Over 21., no sir, we do not to be honest, he loves to stay it's a very small establishment, so he's right.

W

By the bar and he'll let them know, but that is something we can definitely institute immediately.

W

Because, like I said most of the time, we have it from usually music night he'll, be in by seven.

W

And we're usually shut down by 11. The kitchen closes at 10 10 30. So it's always families.

W

Coming in, we don't have an overt like, I mean we're done by 11 o'clock, most nights.

W

So if a 19 year old would come to the door and get guarded by the doorman, they can still enter. Yes,.

W

Because the kitchen's still open yes, sir, what are your hours? We open at 11 a.m every day, and then we.

W

Shut down by midnight on friday and saturday when live music is over uh during the week. It's 10 p.m.

I

How's business, we're pleasantly happy to be honest, it's uh from what we're seeing on social media and.

W

The feedback um overall, it's been very well received. um You know we have our challenges.

W

But that's in everything, but we're very happy. uh It's nice to be home. I grew up in.

W

Hampstead, so it's nice to be home, do you have any specials like two for ones or anything? No.

W

No, we do run a happy hour, but it's not two for ones or anything like that. It's.

W

Like 50 cents off of a instead of five dollars is 450 or something.

A

As I mentioned, thank you very much for coming in. We wish you the best, hopefully.

A

You have taken the proper steps or additional steps. I should say to prevent this type of.

A

Unusual circumstances for patrons and wish you uh continued success and business success and.

A

Hope we don't have the pleasure of your company here for anything like this.

A

Yes, sir, as do we, and so with that, thank you very much. Thank you. Good luck. Continued success in.

W

Your business, we appreciate you doing business in carroll county. Thank you very much. Thank you.

A

Scheduled agenda item uh mr brewer from blaze pizza. Have you uh rectified all the.

A

Questions that we had and your release and so on and so forth, please be seated.

A

I guess joe, we need them sworn in or not.

A

It's a continuous of the case to be on the safe side. Please stand, raise your right hands and be.

A

Sworn in by miss advance, do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony.

C

You're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth. Thank you all be seated.

A

The uh if I remember correctly, there were some.

A

Questions legal questions about the lease and who the holder of this license.

A

Would be and what the relationship was between the license applicant and an agreement with the.

A

Blaze, pizza, people, I guess or home office or whatever you want to call them.

A

What uh what did you find out, sir.

X

Yeah, so I spent some quality time with them and um we got an understanding there, but as we we, we sat.

X

Down uh donna- and I we we looked at her initial investment. She already had. She already had three.

X

Three thousand dollars into it. She put another two thousand dollars in which satisfies the five.

X

Thousand five thousand dollar threshold, we already had our internal document to protect.

X

Her against the ten percent, so we feel that it's clearly stated in the document that we submitted.

X

To the court that she is directly attached to restaurant retail and real estate llc and.

X

We're proud of her to be part of our team and in a way that's more clear to the court. Okay,.

A

Correct me, ladies and gentlemen, if I'm wrong.

A

I don't think that was the only question that we had. There was a question.

A

I don't recall a question about the lease regarding the the relationship.

A

Between the licensee and the corporation right, yes,.

I

As I recall, the question was that the resident agent- I'm sorry, mr chairman, you want to.

I

Have everybody identified sorry, yes, state your names and addresses for the record. Please donna.

Q

B, miller, 388 also in court president, mr maryland, two one one: five, eight, so donna miller right.

I

B, miller m-I-l-l-e-r, I know it's confusing, so it was my understanding, mr chairman, that the uh our.

I

Essential question was ms b miller: right was to be the resident agent, but the question was: did she.

I

Have the sufficient ownership interest, that's required by our rules to assume that position.

I

Especially in light of the fact that maybe the franchising company had prohibition against her.

I

Involvement in the in your business and uh um mr brewer has testified that that's resolved with.

I

His company's relationship with the franchising company that they they gave the go ahead to make.

I

Ms b miller, a part owner to to sufficiently cover the requirement of a resident agent.

J

By our liquor board licenses.

A

Was questioned but I'm still not convinced. That was not the major reason.

A

The language there was language in the lease agreement between mr newman's operation.

A

And blaise pizza, the parent corporation, that whether she or somebody else could could be.

A

A licensee in some manner and I'm not a lawyer like.

A

You have mentioned there mr barnhart mentioned here, but I thought the major question was whether.

A

She could be a resident agent under the wording of the agreements that were presented to us.

A

And you're telling me that that's been rectified the five thousand dollars she.

A

Just had to come up with two thousand dollars, I understand that, but I don't think that was.

A

The major question I think the major question was- and I might not know what I'm talking about.

A

Was something to do with the wording of the contract between.

A

Whatever the the operating agency is and blaise pizza that prohibited somebody else.

A

From being part of that,.

I

That that's correct, that was the main question and as an adjunct to that question, there was a.

I

Document presented in the application that brought question to our mind whether she was legally.

I

Part of part of the corporation in a sufficient manner.

I

This, what I can read is a much more detailed and legal document. It's a.

I

It's basically an action by the corporation, uh whereas the other one was not.

I

The one was just kind of a formal letter I felt, but I think the real question was.

I

Whether there was a problem with relationship um that mr brewer would have with the company that.

I

Franchises his company right- and he just testified that that's been resolved. He had a question about.

I

It he thought it might be prohibited, but I believe he just testified that you've discussed that with.

I

Your umbrella company that franchises play pizza to you and that you got to go ahead with this new.

I

This clearer arrangement that ms b miller could be. I have a cunary interest in the pizza shop, correct.

J

That that was that was, and I can add the issue last time I can have something at ten thousand.

X

Feet there is no language and my fdd, which is my franchise disclosure agreement. That prohibits me.

G

From doing whatever I want with restaurant retail and real estate, which is the parent.

X

Company of fire restaurant group, so what what I was speaking to is they frown upon it because.

X

They were afraid that, if that we would then go get more than 51, but there's no language.

X

That prohibits it, so you won't see anything in any contractual agreement between myself.

X

And blase p. So that prohibits me having any partners that I want right and- and that was.

X

Discussed last time and you were going to clear it up and and so this document is not prohibited by.

X

Correct uh another uh contractual arrangement that you have correct yeah, so so that that cleared up.

I

The one question for the board, whether you could do this and uh it looks like you- can.

I

Make ms b miller uh have an equitable interest in your company, which I think that this does.

I

And I think that mr dixon has reviewed this. um He might want to offer an opinion as well.

B

Just just to keep it simple, what I mean, what we dealt with last time was whether the entity.

B

Is getting the liquor license um whether mrs b miller had a role uh in the entity.

P

That's getting the liquor license and now, with that document she has a interest in the entity.

P

That's getting that liquor license so right, and that would satisfy our requirement in here. Okay,.

A

So we have complied. I say we, you have complied and answered the questions that we had.

A

The satisfaction of my colleagues and our legal advice- correct. Yes, that's correct, so the next step.

J

That we have is to decide whether we feel that they should have a alcoholic beverage license.

A

Correct, yes, sir, and before we vote on that.

A

There was some discussion about the need.

A

For class b license and if I remember correctly, you were going to check.

A

With some of the other franchisees to see what liquor sales might be with them, is that correct.

I

Right there was a question. I think the gentleman said that he was intending just to.

I

Use a license for the sale of beer and wine in conjunction with the pizza.

I

And that request for a liquor license was something he was being preemptively, maybe down.

I

The road he might want to do that, but the actual application was for a beer wine liquor right.

I

And I think the board had a question about the need for the yeah.

A

So you have still the same opinion that you feel there may be a need for a class b license.

X

So I um we will most likely never sell liquor, which was my original statement.

X

When I came here first when I was talking to other authorities with legal license, including people in.

X

Carroll county, the difference between getting a beer and wine financially being wine and liquor.

X

License was so nominal that I just said: why don't I get it now, just in case I ever need.

X

As opposed to trying to start the application process over is what we talked about. The first.

X

Time and it will start a whole new application sometime in the future. I didn't want to apply.

X

So it just made more sense at the time to have the ability to have it not needed. You know, as opposed.

X

To needed not have it or something like that, so financially I made that decision, even though I.

X

Knew that in our restaurant it would never ever probably it would never sell liquor. I can almost.

X

Say that with high degree of certainty, none of the other blazers carry it. So it was a financial.

X

Decision more than a decision to give me the the to sell it as a as a offering item for our guests.

I

So I guess one of the things that we thought was that um I'll speak for myself.

J

So this board issues licenses in connection with alcoholic beverages in carroll, county and.

I

I I'm just not of the opinion that we should um issue broader licenses.

I

uh Then we should for a particular establishment. I think we should tailor what we issued.

I

To what the establishment needs and what the establishment wants and you're testifying that.

I

It's highly unlikely that you'll ever need a beer wine liquor, but you need a beer wine.

I

That's my thought on that uh beer wine be more appropriate.

I

From my point of view, although it's um I can certainly be persuaded by argument.

I

Different, I would agree with you, mr foreigner. I think, if, if your intention is beer and wine, which.

H

Typically, that type of establishment is a beer and wine establishment that uh I would stick to just.

H

The beer and wine, I believe the beer on liquor, brings you to a different a little bit different.

H

Level of responsibility, so I would stick to personally like to see you stick to the bare wine.

A

The application has been made for class b, correct class b. Everything is.

C

Okay, may I say something about the financial part of it? No, but go ahead.

C

If you get the class b with beer wine liquor, that's going to cost you 1500 every year.

C

If you get the class beer wine the seven day, that's a thousand dollars every year. If you.

C

Had to come back at some point and ask for beer, wine and liquor, that would be a 500 application.

C

As long as you have beer wine liquor, you're going to be paying 500 more than you need to every year.

C

So you might want to think about that so so for my clear, thank you. First of all sure.

X

So for my clarity and here's where, if at some point through this journey.

X

That we, there was a reason for us to add liquor to our menu.

X

Would that require the initiation of an entire new process like this to go through the process from.

X

Cradle to grave again, or would it um be a addition to the the existing um beer and wine license.

X

It would you would have a hearing, but it would be for an upgrade wouldn't have to start.

X

Thank you. You'd already have the a and the b, but you would just need to add the c. I understood b.

A

But you wouldn't have to go back to a to get to c. Okay, that might be complicated. No, you made it.

X

Crystal clear, crystal clear, simple I'd say simpler than.

A

What you've had to go through the first time crystal clear, so I agree with.

X

And I don't know how the process would work on you in, but I'm comfortable and.

X

Agree with just having to be in wine, so you will be amending your application from a.

I

Class b, beer wine liquor to a class b year, one correct that would change fees, maybe.

C

Yeah didn't change how much he pays 15. Has he already paid that money.

C

No because he doesn't have a license yet, okay, so that's right, so he pays it when we issue it.

I

I

Simple resolution, I think.

I

I use, I guess, on the record: amanda application.

A

So it's your desire to amend your application from a beer wine and liquor license.

A

To a beer and wine license yes at this time. Yes,.

A

Mr attorney, what.

A

Procedure does it's been done? It's on the record. It's on the record. Okay. So therefore,.

A

We have heard all the testimony and answered our questions have been answered as to the.

A

Bringing or handling this case from last month.

A

And we have my estimation that the last meeting found that these people were proper and.

A

Fit and proper to hold a liquor license or an alcoholic beverage license. I should say, based upon.

A

Testimony here today, and it certainly would be my personal recommendation to approve this.

A

Application but I would yield to a motion if it would be proper at this time.

H

I make a motion, I I I make a motion to approve uh class b beer and wine license for blaze, pizza.

H

With donna d miller as the resident agent now, second that motion unless it's been properly.

A

Made and seconded that we approve the amended application from ken brewer and blaise pizza.

A

To approve the application, with the resident agent being donna b miller, any further discussion on the.

A

Motion no hearing, none all those in favor signify the saying aye aye opposed. No so ordered you guys.

A

Have it? Congratulations. uh I hope we didn't sway your opinion. We would just like to convey to you.

A

Your options and so forth and wish you the very best and good luck, and now we gotta eat pizza.

X

Pie day is monday.

X

Three dollars in 14 come on in I'll. Tell you what I somewhere along the line. I had a free pizza.

A

Thing when you first opened, how did that go very good. Oh the opening yeah.

X

Amazing, this has been a privilege to do business in carroll county in westminster. It's been a.

X

Privilege for us in our team, so we do appreciate that good. Congratulations to the best wishes.

A

Anytime, you have any questions, mr doom and please don't. Let's.

I

Yeah, don't hesitate to ask our inspectors.

A

Or our officer this vance, do you have any questions or any comments? Any time.

A

Don't hesitate to no, I mean the uh welcome package because I don't have it you do that.

M

M

I thought you had one here I did. I gave it to somebody else and I forgot about that.

A

Specter benford has a nice present for you uh outlining of the fans and butts.

A

And lulls and so and so forth, so he will be very happy to drop it off at your establishment.

Q

Monday, at pi day at 3 00 to 14 seconds, this is the day to come. So it's a great it's great, because I.

Q

Was for you can feed your family of four for 15 or less one day and think about that with the gas.

X

Prices right now, it happened at a perfect time, so we'll be talking about that on the news and kind.

X

Of just it's a great opportunity for us to show we care about what's going on in the world and be.

X

Able to present these pieces to these families at this time. You know this is it's in my heart.

X

Good, so I'm excited about it all my restaurants will be doing it. So thank you very good, good.

A

Good, the cnr is like my neighbor in towson. That's why I know is that right, yeah they're, my neighbor.

X

That's how you know him yeah. I thought I've won with him, but that's okay.

A

Okay, thank you very much. Good luck. Thank you.

A

I have nothing scheduled here on my agenda.

A

Do anybody any members have any comments or any other agenda items if not.

A

I see that, according to the agenda, it has been corrected from the one that I saw.

A

On the computer that our next meeting is not in may but will be april, the 13th at 10 o'clock.

A

Hearing no objections: this meeting is adjourned. We will reconvene here on april the 13th.

A