Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 16 May 2023

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission Work Session May 16, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Good morning I call the planning and commission meeting to order. um I would like to welcome.

A

Everybody on this gorgeous day um and we will start with the pledge of allegiance.

B

A

Okay, has everybody.

A

Quora, oh, oh, I'm! Sorry! Okay, I skipped right there. I had all my extra patriotic.

C

Mr kane, your mr smith, here, commissioner gordon here, secretary eisenberg here, madam chair.

D

Please let the record reflect that six members are present and we do have a quorum. Thank you. Okay. Now.

A

um Has everybody had a chance to review and look over the minutes? Yes right there and it changes.

E

No man, okay, I will entertain a motion. Madam chair.

F

Can we do the review and the approval of the agenda before the review and the.

F

Approval of the minutes I'm bouncing right along today. That's fine, okay,.

A

Kim we have a approval for the agenda, a move. We approve the agenda for today's meeting. A second.

A

All in favor, aye, aye, okay, all right the minutes. um We wouldn't eat emotion, but we.

A

Will need two separate ones. You notice that there was a report for the close.

A

Meeting so we will need that to be in two separate forms: correct that that's correct. We will approve.

F

The minutes of the meeting with the closing statement and then there will be a separate motion.

F

And vote on approving the closed minutes. Okay, all right! I will entertain emotion, then. The second.

G

I make a motion that we uh prove the minutes from april 18th and may 3rd. I'm sorry.

H

I'll, second, that, okay, all in favor.

A

Now, um can you.

A

Amend at to include the closing statement, well, we'll just make a separate a separate motion.

G

I make a motion to approve the closing or the closed meeting minutes statements.

G

Yes, statement a second all in favor, okay,.

A

um The I have one.

A

Thing that I did officially um on may 4th. I approve excuse me, madam chair, we haven't gone.

I

um The next order is commission member reports- that's okay, I'm just so, and.

I

I think so are we good with all of the votes, then yeah? Okay, okay,.

A

I will um report that I did one official approval, which.

A

Was the city of 2010 wastewater treatment plan? The second amended.

A

S200025 on may, the 4th I approved the final plan.

A

Commissioner, gordon, uh yes just have one little bit of information this morning we do have a.

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New member of planning and zoning so we're reaching out to them and.

J

I'm hopeful they'll probably be on board within the next meeting.

A

A

Okay, any other commission members.

A

Okay, secretary eisenberg yep your administrative report, yes um good morning, everyone thank you for.

I

Being here today and as commissioner gordon said, we have new members coming on to our.

I

Planning, commission- hopefully they will be here by the next meeting. um Both members are going to.

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Be wonderful additions, I know them both and, I think we'll be very pleased um with who's.

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Coming on board so we'll make that official announcement um when they officially approved.

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um uh Their acceptance of this, so we're excited about that. I also want to let you know that the.

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Board of county commissioners has been very busy with text amendments, so it looks like four text.

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Amendments will be coming before you and july for we've already had one introduction for one of them.

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um And that was for plan commercial, centers and the commercial districts so we'll be bringing.

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That back in july, as well as adult use cannabis, that law goes into effect july 1 for the state of.

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Maryland so we'll be addressing that in our zoning code, another issue is going to be self storage.

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Facilities particularly bulk requirements, where they are in proximity to residences.

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um So we'll be reviewing that and then finally, looking at restaurants and food services within.

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The agricultural zone we've had a couple of issues come forward regarding that and then.

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Also, there was a slight change to the state law for breweries and wineries with the allowance of.

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On-Site prepared food, so not quite restaurant, but an additional allowance for various types.

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Of foods to be prepared on site and served were the old law for that particular liquor license.

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Was only pre-prepared food could be served on like cheese, platters and pre-packaged stuff. Now they're.

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Going to allow pizza and sandwiches and some other food preparation in association with breweries and.

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Wineries which are in our agricultural zone so um you'll be seeing those coming in the month of july.

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And with that, we do not have any extensions for this particular meeting and I'm going to.

I

Have drew keg, drew gray, go over with you, the two bza cases for this month.

K

Thank you, secretary eisenberg, madam chair and commission members. We have two board of zoning.

K

Cases first is bzak 6387, which is a conditional use for a contractor's equipment, storage yard.

K

The requested variance includes multiple distance variances and an area variance from the one acre.

K

Requirement to 2.190 acres: this is located off of maryland. 482 hampstead mexico road near the.

K

Intersection of north gorsuch road planning staff finds this request for a conditional.

K

Use and associated variances is consistent with the 2014 carroll county master plan, as amended in.

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2019 and would not have an adverse effect on the current use of the property and surrounding area.

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With the condition that a site plan be submitted to the carroll county bureau of development review,.

K

Second case is bzak 6450. This is a request for a conditional use near the northern intersection of.

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Cleves mill, road and bartholo road, specifically, it is for an outdoor recreational area and accessory.

K

Caretaker's dwelling and accessory nursing, school and all other accessory structures as.

K

Shown on the drawing that was submitted, planning staff finds this request for a conditional use.

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Is consistent with the 2014 master plan and may have an adverse effect on the current use.

K

Of the property and surrounding area with the conditions that a site plan be submitted to the.

K

Carroll county bureau of development review and the zoning administrator and or board of zoning.

K

Appeals reviews and approves the additional uses and buildings on the property that is.

K

All I have madam chair, if you have any questions, please let me know. Thank you. Anybody thank you.

I

It's my administrative report. Thank you. Okay next is the election of vice chair.

A

We will now accept nominations for the office of vice chair. I nominate michael kane.

H

I second that okay, michael kane, do you accept the nomination for vice chair? Yes,.

A

Are there any other nominations for vice chair.

A

A

L

Okay, so um we want to close close okay. I I move that we.

L

Closed the nomination process for last year.

A

Okay, all those in favor of the motion to elect michael cain, for vice chair, say hi hi,.

A

Any opposed. Congratulations, michael! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Excited and honor.

M

Okay, moving forward.

A

Hannah weber, it's an insta annexation.

N

Good morning planning commission congratulations to our new vice chair.

N

As introduced, we are here for a westminster. Annexation with us today is kelly. Schaefer.

N

Who's representing the property owner, and we also have andrea gerhard from the city of westminster,.

N

To answer any questions, we also have mr tom grohl, a representative from ellsworth cemetery.

C

um And marshall green from clsi who prepared the annexation plot as well.

N

Started this is just an informational briefing. There is no zoning waiver required with this.

N

Annexation, the annexation area is approximately 1.1812 acres right off lighty road adjacent.

N

To the corporate limits of the city of westminster, we are on the eastern end of.

N

The westminster area, you can see the corporate limits of the city of westminster to the left.

N

Of the annexation area, demonstrating that this annexation will not create an enclave.

N

Here's an aerial view of the annexation area. It is currently um it currently has headstones on.

N

The property you can see, we have the wawa to the east of the west of the property. We have coals.

N

And then there is a church to the south of the property. Again, the annexation area is 1.1812 acres.

N

As we said in the beginning, there is no zoning waiver required for this.

N

Annexation, it is currently zoned our 10 000, residential with the county. It is going to.

N

Be placed into the conservation zoning district with the city of westminster.

N

And this is consistent with the designated land use of conservation taken from the 2007.

N

Westminster environs community comprehensive plan.

N

We are in the existing water and sewer service categories.

N

And the department of planning is recommending that the city of westminster give public notice.

N

By posting, the property prior to the date of the public hearing and notifying all.

N

Adjoining property owners we will, we will be presenting this annexation to the board of.

N

County commissioners, this thursday and then staff is recommending support of this annexation request.

A

Okay, um so do we just need nothing? um Well, I think it would be good if you to take a motion.

I

To uh favorably recommend moving forward um with the comments of the annexation, I mean we don't.

I

Really have a formal role in this, so to speak, but this is a really great annexation opportunity. I.

I

Don't know if you want to say a little bit about the cemetery, it's really fascinating um story and.

I

The heart of the civil war heritage area fully supports the cemetery and I believe they applied.

I

For a grant opportunity too, as part of being in the heart of the civil war heritage area, for some.

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Efforts so I'm gonna turn it over to miss schaefer, to kind of explain a little bit to you about.

C

The cemetery thank you linda good morning, kelly schaefer miller, 73, east main street westminster.

C

Maryland 21157, as I said at the well, I don't think I said this hannah said it um I'm here on behalf.

C

Of the applicant and ellsworth cemetery group, who has kind of um to well tom I'll, let you say what.

C

Exactly what you do, but they manage this cemetery, the cemetery had kind of fallen into disrepair, had.

C

Been um vandalized headstones had been destroyed, and so over several years, and some of you might be.

C

Familiar with this from reading the carroll county times and the carroll magazine, they've covered it.

C

um Well recently um and kind of explained the history, but it has been maintained, brought back.

C

The headstones are being repaired, there's been funding provided to to provide some headstones.

C

For grave sites that did not have them. This is the home of several civil war veterans. It has.

C

A lot of history I'd also like to quickly say: if you follow them on facebook, they do a an awesome.

C

Job kind of giving the history of some of the people who are buried there, which is really.

C

Fascinating to read so I would encourage everyone to do that this. This annexation excuse me serves.

C

Both a symbolic purpose, but it would also, as linda, was saying this would make this site eligible to.

C

Apply for a map amendment to be brought in to the heart of the civil war heritage area, which would.

C

Then open the site up to additional grant funding eligibility, so that is one of the driving factors.

C

For this annexation, we've been working with the city of westminster, andrea gerhart, who is here.

C

From the city, staff is going to help through this process, as this continues, because, after.

C

An annexation is complete, which hopefully it will be in the next few months. Then we will.

C

Have to start the map amendment process to become part of the heart of the civil war heritage area.

C

So this is kind of just the beginning, but it's been several years in the making and so we've.

C

Kind of developed a little team to guide it through this, but tom's been involved in this.

C

For many many years so tom, why don't you give them just a quick overview? I know a quick. I.

C

Think it's important. This is a really really cool project and it's a really it has so much history.

O

uh I've been taking care of the place for about 14 years. We took a group out there to do a.

O

um A little show and tell of of historic things in in westminster and and it was neglected and.

O

Over the past 14 years, um I've identified 182 unmarked graves. um I've applied and received 12.

O

Headstones for civil war veterans from military services we're working to keep the place. You know.

O

The biggest thing that we're trying to do is we're trying to get people involved, especially.

O

The younger generation to to understand why this is important, and you know the history behind it.

O

Even even ellsworth's name ellsworth is from colonel elmer ellsworth, who was lincoln's best.

O

Friend in his law, firm helped him get elected the president when the flag went up in alexandria.

O

He sent colonel ellsworth with his black drill team to go fetch the flag and, as you know, from.

O

History and ellsworth went up to retrieve the flag the innkeeper shot and killed him.

O

um The troops brought ellsworth back and lincoln was so distraught that he had sent his best friend.

O

To his death, colonel al mor ellsworth was the first person laid out in the white house. The.

O

First person killed on the union side and seven black civil war soldiers named the the cemetery.

O

After this first person killed, there is so much history inside the the cemetery nicholas paraway.

O

He lived to be a hundred and ten seven days, seven months and five days he was the first black person.

O

Allowed to vote in westminster, so there's a ton of history there. My goal is through grants and things.

O

Like that is to replace everybody's headstone, that was vandalized and no longer has a stone and to.

O

Keep this going we're getting the boy scouts involved in the high schools involved so that.

O

It doesn't go through these cycles of somebody taking care of it, and then it dies again. So.

O

Being annexed into part of the city, I think would be a great thing for this great historical.

O

Place right here in our own, our own city, amazing, we're happy to answer any specific questions that.

C

You have, but I think from the annexation standpoint. This is pretty straightforward.

C

um So we would request that you issue a favorable recommendation.

C

To the board of county commissioners for our parents there on thursday, thank you.

A

Thank you. Anybody any questions. I I, prior to today's meeting, I read about the history.

B

And it's fascinating, it really is a good read and educational and certainly fits.

B

In with the westminster's history of the civil war, I mean it's perfect, it makes perfect sense.

B

So you know fully support that. I found it interesting that the property zone or ten.

B

Thousand, it's a cemetery because you know we don't have cemetery zoning in the county. So it's just.

I

Typically, whatever the surrounding is, and we don't have like a public conservation, zoning.

I

District, so that's why yeah does it indicate development? Okay? No! No! Absolutely not! I think.

B

I think solution to the issues that the cemeteries had and good luck with you know.

B

Getting more funding certainly needed and well deserved. Thank you. Thank you anybody, so I would.

L

Echo everything he said and with that, unless there are other comments, I would move that we.

L

Send this up a food chain with a favorable recommendation for the annexation. A second.

A

All in favor all right thanks, that's cool, very cool, very, very cool. Thank you and he's worth.

G

Being so close, it's kind of forgotten that right other things. There was a lot of other things that.

G

Happened. Excuse me, madam chair, if I can offer if we could change the order of today's agenda.

I

And actually put item 11 the recess now we're experiencing some technical difficulties so.

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We need to reboot the system. Okay, um we will take a 10 minute recess. Okay, thank you. Okay,.

A

For your patience, while we had our technical difficulties, but we are back so um number 10.

A

Special report.

A

It would be cross.

P

P

Okay, so, as mentioned, the next item on our agenda is the concept special report for.

P

Bradley's overlook, which is file number p180063, so david beekraft, with the bureau of development.

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Review we have a couple representatives of the project here and I'll. Let them.

P

Introduce themselves I'm linda alexander, with clsi, with the engineers on the property.

Q

uh Rob scranton with cbi homes, uh owner developer.

P

Okay and what this project is looking to do is to create four residential subdivision lots within.

P

This project, so this may look familiar to some of you, so this project was before you as a concept.

P

Plan back in october of 2020, and they are now looking to this- is essentially going to be a.

P

Joint meeting here, so this is more or less a a layout revision kind of update to the planning.

P

Zona commission, as well as we're looking for authorization to cluster those lots now.

P

So the project itself is on the west side of cherry tree lane and you can see it outlined.

P

With this, this orange outline here, so this is cherry tree lane. This is london bridge.

P

Road- here's 26 down here and here's 32 over here, so you can see we're kind of in that.

P

Eldersburg area kind of on the outskirts of that, so the property itself is zoned.

P

Conservation and is currently undeveloped. You can see from the area of the property.

P

Is mostly wooded with an open area here this open area used to be an equestrian center.

P

There is a stream that runs to the property and there is a flood plain associated with that stream.

P

The property has pretty steep topography. So if you follow the north property line,.

P

Down to the center of the property it slopes down towards the stream once.

P

You get across the stream, it slopes back upwards as you move south to the property.

P

hmm So adjacent to the property are properties are zoned conservation and agriculture. The majority of.

P

These properties are used for private residential dwellings, uh as you can see, there's also some.

P

Farmland that abuts the property as well, this site is outside the public, water and sewer service area.

P

So it is, and as well as the surrounding properties are served by private, well and septic systems.

P

So what was originally provided to the county was provided on march 25th 2019, and that was.

P

Distributed to the technical review agencies now, I will note that, with this project being.

P

Submitted prior to those code, changes that were adopted in 2022, this subdivision plan still.

P

Falls under those old code requirements and I'll kind of get into that more into the report here.

P

So the project was subject to citizen involvement at the april 22nd 2019 technical review committee.

P

Meeting at that meeting there were a couple people there who expressed concerns of stormwater runoff.

P

And soil erosion during the meeting three adjoining property owners, one who was at the.

P

Meeting provided written correspondence, which was included within your packets as already.

P

Mentioned on october, 20th 2020, the planning zoning commission reviewed the concept plan for this.

P

There were no citizens that signed in or spoke at that meeting, but sometime after that meeting the.

P

Owner slash developer, as well as the engineer of the project, had changed hands and so the design.

P

Along with that, change of hands also ensued. So previously the developer was looking to create.

P

Four new lots of subdivision, which were about three, maybe three and three quarter: acres in size.

P

And that left the remaining area about 17 acres, the current developer still wishes to create four.

P

New lots of subdivision but they're now looking to cluster those which aligns with our current code.

P

And regulations, so the complaining commission may authorize clustering and the conservation zoning.

P

District provided the conditions outlined within county code are met and I've outlined all of those.

P

Here in the report so more or less how this will go is I wanted to make those subsequent paragraphs.

P

Line up with those requirements within that section of code, so each paragraph more or less.

P

Corresponds to that section in order and so we'll move right along here. So the proposed clustered.

P

Lots will range in size from about 1.75 acres to about two acres and they're clustered lots they're.

P

They're, a lot widths will range from about 207 feet to 246 feet. So, as you can see within number.

P

One, it states that one of the restrictions is that the individual lots style remain a minimum of one.

P

Acre in size a minimum of 150 feet in width with this current design, it meets that that condition.

P

An open space calculation table provides the calculation as to how much open space will have.

P

To be preserved on the property, so open space is the land derived from clustering, so the minimum.

P

Lot size within conservation zone district is three acres, any area less than that they have.

P

To provide that within an open space, so, according to their calculation, uh the grand total of open.

P

Space area will be about 4.37 acres, they are providing 4.46 acres of open space to be provided.

P

Via an open space, easements on that resulting lands, which is the leftover area of property,.

P

So to determine the maximum lot yield. The code states that I'm just going to read this verbatim.

P

The total number of lots and dwelling units that would be permitted if the area were developed.

P

In conformance with this tobacca topographic characteristics and the normal minimum lot size.

P

Requirements, excuse me so the engineer submitted a conventional plan of subdivision to all technical.

P

Review agencies, so that was the original plan back in 2019 during that review, the agencies.

P

Confirmed that four lots could be attained, and that is what is shown here is four lots.

P

The proposal lots are grouped on the northeastern portion of the property, as mentioned, this area is.

P

Mostly open and was used as the equestrian center, so this placement allows for no disturbance within.

P

The stream buffer and minimal disturbance within those forested areas that exist on the property.

P

The open space area was declined by the county, so it whenever you cluster, the county has the right.

P

Of first refusal of that open space and the county politely declined uh that, and so uh the open space.

P

Area will be recombined with the resulting land, as I said, with that open space easement all lot yield.

P

From the property is included on this subdivision and will be shown on the subsequent plans at such.

P

Time that the planning zoning commission approval is requested, a note will be added to the record.

P

Plat, at the time that states, essentially no more subdivision, can occur on this property access to.

P

The lots is proposed from a use and common drive from cherry tree lane, and that is shown right here.

P

And you'll be happy to know that there is uh it'll terminate at a essentially a roundabout here. So.

P

That those can can come in and turn around easily and leave that use in common driveway.

P

So the driveway name was approved to be kenner drive and is to be utilized by the proposed four.

P

Subdivision lots as well as two off conveyance slots that are going to be up here as well.

P

And so a declaration of maintenance obligations and an access easement for the shared drive will.

P

Need to be recorded with the record pad at such time that that should occur, and the.

P

Resulting land will have a private driveway onto cherry tree lane, so this is the resulting land.

P

And this is roughly where that resulting land house will be so that'll have a private drive.

P

So stormwater management has issued concept approval for the revised site.

P

Layout, which utilizes drywalls and biosoils to meet requirements, grading a sentiment.

P

Control have approved the revised plan, force, conservation, water resources and flood plain.

P

Will require easements on site. Landscape has a granted approval of the revised plan with all.

P

Lots utilizing private wellness subject systems additional information will need to be provided.

P

To the carroll county, health department and that'll happen as we move forward in this review,.

P

And the review the department of planning determined that the proposed land is consistent.

P

With the 2018 freedom community, comp plan, land use, designation of resource conservation and so.

P

Before we move on just to give an idea as to how the property looks, I have a couple picture slides.

P

Here so this is essentially just various angles of that existing open area. Here I will mention.

P

That these pictures are a few years old, but not much has changed since these pictures were taken.

P

Foreign again, some pictures of that open space area and then finally, this is the existing access.

P

Onto cherry tree lane, which I linda, I believe that's going to be the same area plus okay,.

P

So uh just to give another idea as to the process. So, as mentioned this already went to planning.

P

Zoning commission, as a constant plan, I am kind of considering this also a concept plan before.

P

The planning zoning commission uh just more or less as an update as to the design we are looking.

P

For authorization to cluster these lots by the planning zoning commission, if that should occur,.

P

This will keep moving forward in the process and will be brought back to the planning zone.

P

Commission as a preliminary plan and at that time we'll talk about concurrency management.

P

So if you have any questions, I'd be happy to help, as well as the representatives here.

A

um Notice that there is a trash pad site and mailbox, but where exactly on the plan is that.

A

Looking to be as you go into, the use in common driveway it'll be on whatever the appropriate side.

R

Is that I think it's on the left hand side? Because you want people to be able to get in and get out.

R

So it'll be shown on that side. Okay, will there be well again keep in mind that this using common.

R

um Is not just 12 feet wide either it's 16 feet right, so the pad's a little bit.

R

Farther over than what it would normally be, so will there be some screaming around the.

A

Trash pad site, if we can screen it and not create any issues with the site distance. Yes,.

R

Okay, all right and I'm sure, that'll be addressed in the preliminary plan. um Any other questions.

L

I've got two: are we talking about four houses here or seven right.

P

So it's a very good question so, with this subdivision plan, they're creating four new.

P

Lots: okay, the resulting land, the land, that's left over, that's a buildable lot, so that'll.

P

Be five houses within a separate review process that does not have planning zone and commission.

P

Involvement they're taking two what they call off conveyance slides. So at the end of this, there will.

P

Be seven new lots on that property? Okay? Well, I'm sorry, six new lots and then a buildable leftover.

P

Area on that property, okay, so so okay, I just want to make sure, because I heard four and when.

L

I looked at it last night and and the first time so I've got seven houses and I read: okay.

L

All right, then, I'm going to go back to are we using the new code or are we doing this under.

L

The old code, because it sounds to me like we're, allowing them we're giving them some allowances.

L

Because they were here early on and we don't want to have to restart the process. But we're.

L

Also trying to leverage some of the benefits of the new code, so we're kind of this is a little.

L

Bit of a hybrid, so this is solely under the old code. So um really the only thing that changed.

P

That would affect this with the new code was how how many lots are allowed and how that's.

P

Provided so under the old code, they had to show us a conventional plan to prove to us that they.

P

Can have that many lives under the new code? It's just a calculation. You have this many acres, you.

P

Can get this so that's the only thing they're doing here. Is this the the accommodation we.

L

Made where you don't have to provide the the two plants and go through the approval process for.

L

Both or whatever, correct, and essentially because they already the original plan, was a conventional.

P

Plan they weren't proposing to cluster at the time we just considered that the conventional plan yeah.

L

All right, I appreciate the clarification on that because I was kind of okay. If.

L

Sounded to me, like we were kind of using the best of both. So I appreciate you clarifying that yeah.

P

Of course- and I will mention too by all means- it is very well possible that they could be put under.

P

The new code, but as you mentioned, they would have to start over from the very beginning. I don't want.

P

To wish that on anybody, but um but I mean I don't think it's uh yeah whatever I'll be quiet. Okay,.

A

It's okay, you don't have to be anybody else. What's the width of the driveway to access the homes 16.

B

16 feet 16 feet is that and that's adequate for emergency 12 feet is the minimum we're doing 16.

A

And you'll have a like a turnaround back. Yes, the turnaround. That's at the end of.

R

This is as large as cul-de-sac is on a public road. Newer homes are all built with sprinkler.

B

Systems- and things like that anymore, because I noticed the what the fire hydrant was two and.

B

A half miles away or something they're all sprinkler, that's a lot of hose, but um okay.

B

Good questions because I hide the same things written down when I was looking at this list.

B

Six, seven, four: well let me one of the reasons that the off conveyances are actually still shown.

R

On here is we needed to make sure stormwater management was okay, conceptually with how the.

R

Whole site worked not just piecemeal, which is basically the new power. You know. That's.

R

Happened in it over the past year or so that's been an evolving thing. So that's the reason. The.

R

Off convinces are still shown on here was to get concept, approval, okay, so, and that lot yield.

B

Is capped, but only by uh when the the uh the plot is recorded. With that note saying no more.

B

Development, so we'll have to be watchful for that when we see that submit, keep in mind too that when.

R

The plaque comes in one of the reasons that this was done is the majority of this, resulting in.

R

Land is forested and under the conservation zone it's required to be put in an easement. So once.

R

It goes into those easements and the floodplain easements and and the water resource protection.

R

There's not a whole lot of land left now the off conveyances on this meet the current zoning of.

R

Conservation, there are three acres or more, only the four lots are being clustered down.

A

And the resulting land is pretty steep. Yes, where we're showing the house there's about three acres.

R

Maybe four acres in that area- that's usable, but then it comes down to easements and steep and.

R

Yeah I've been by there the original the original plan um went over into those those.

Q

Areas and uh when we got involved, we wanted to reduce the environmental impact and kept all.

Q

That's why we're asking for cluster to keep everything on the other side of the stream.

B

And that will be property owner maintained road, not county maintained. Is that correct.

P

It will be probably maintained, that's correct, so that they will have to record.

P

A declaration of maintenance obligations for the the users of that without county.

P

Involvement and there's the dr, the driveways have some climb to get to the homes too. So.

B

Good sleigh riding right into the road yeah scary, ethan. um Okay, so we need a motion to.

P

So um if I may so I I believe there is someone from the public here as well to.

A

Someone would like to stake on this. If you could, please come up to the microphone.

I

And state your name and address for the record and uh this for this comment item.

I

S absolutely yep. I can pass them up sure I'll. Take them. Oh, walk up to the deus, then.

I

What do you want me to do? You can walk up to the dancing and show them the pictures.

S

Good morning, good morning, my property is attached in maryland preservation program.

S

And I have a very bad um erosion problem and that is radio.

S

I had stan pennington from soil conservation go out. I got two letters uh what's happening.

S

Is the erosion is getting so deep, I'm losing my defense line and I have pictures of this.

S

This is from 2019.

S

I'm losing my fence on it and eventually I'm going to be on the which was the bradley.

S

Property see how bad that is a big hill. Almost there is going down and destroying my property.

S

Another picture, okay, so I just want to understand the erosion is taking place from the bradley's top.

S

Of the top of this hill, of course, if you haven't been there, you wouldn't see the hill. You can't see.

S

The hill here so it goes down the hill and and eroding all my water eroding on my property. So.

S

What fence line is almost, I have like five or six more feet and I won't have any more room events.

S

So stan pennington came up with this idea. Could we um david? Could you put the picture.

B

Up there that mr danbury is referring to of the property, because I couldn't see the.

B

Pictures we don't have his pictures, but no no this. No! He he's using this.

P

Property here, okay, all right, 21 acres attached to it: okay, okay, where's, the erosion occurring.

B

It starts at the top here. Okay he's upstairs, it rolls down the hill, and this is foreign acres.

S

I do have pictures of this stream in the 100 year, flood plain.

S

It's dangerous and humans, can't I don't know how I own a horse farm. I do not allow anybody down there.

S

I've actually done it, so it comes the water comes down through here.

S

It is oh there's, probably 15 20 feet deep.

T

Er, that's possible in the report about it. A pond.

S

Here's another question that uh mr smith, from the agland preservation he said, came up with this idea.

S

um On the drawing the possibility, this is up to you guys if they can donate this land to me,.

S

Then they wouldn't have to worry about having a storm water pond. I wouldn't.

S

Have to worry about erosion, and then this is the other thing. That's happened.

S

Well, there is target shooting. There is no trespasses.

S

All the trees in this area, when I cleaned it up- and these are this- is my fence line. Let's see.

S

80-Foot trees fell over, they knocked 60 feet of my fence, now, who's who's responsible for that.

A

Can ice? This is brand new. This just happened. I well. I understand that I just had a neighbor's.

A

Tree follow everyone, I mean I took care of it, I didn't go to the bradley's or.

S

Whoever owns this property and fix it, I just did it because I raised cattle down.

L

I think you, the the issue here. Yeah, I think, is, is that there's an erosion.

L

Problem before we've done anything and if we're not increasing runoff.

L

The problem is still going to exist whether we do anything or not. If we're not increasing.

S

Unless they do, the pond stand, since they have to do a pond thing where the water would not.

S

Go through it, so I think it'd be appropriate to not continue to have a one-on-one conversation.

I

um So the rest of the public can hear, and it's on the record and that the applicant can have.

I

An opportunity to respond to the questions that were just and the problem that was just proposed.

R

So the other thing, too, is the majority of I think I know potentially, where he's talking about we're.

R

Not proposing any work at all back in that area because we're leaving all those woods the way they.

R

Are so nothing we're doing is going to make the situation worse, but nothing we're doing is going.

R

To make the situation better, there's a stream down there and there's in the chances of the county for.

R

Immaterial of what the soil, conservation and water resource protection- forestry floodplain are not.

R

Going to let us put a pond down in the bottom of that and we are downstream of him, so his stream is.

R

Actually completely coming on us, except for that one potential area, that's running across the back.

R

um As far as donating land, I I can't speak to that portion of it. um It doesn't fix the problem. It.

R

Just puts it to where he can potentially maintain it, but um it's something that we can. I mean it's.

R

The clustering that we're doing we're not even going the whole way back to that property. That's.

R

Going to be part of that resulting land back in there with no work proposed in that area in any of.

R

The stormwater and any of the sediment is going to be contained before it even hits. The woods.

R

In that location, and that would result when you do the preliminary plan.

S

That just developed on what family farm already.

S

Thank you. I have a farm too, I'm quite familiar with the neighboring issues. Do you want to see.

S

Anything about the flood, the floods that are happening. Apparently you want to see that.

S

We can certainly take copies of them or the county. It would probably be better for them.

L

I think I'm going to ask you edwin to go back to the microphone um and so that everybody can hear.

L

You, when you're talking right so if you could go, I would think that from our purposes I would.

R

Rather, the county had the pictures and then they can share them with us yeah. I think the.

I

Most appropriate thing to do is anything that you want to submit as record for the for public record.

I

Is to hand it to mr so hand it to mr b craft and he can make copies and return. The pictures.

S

He does the storm water management. Is there anything else from the pile that is yours, sir?.

Q

Mr pennington, what what are there any? uh How many of the house lots affect the watershed.

B

And what I'm hearing is, the answer is none correct. Sorry, we were looking at the pictures. Yes.

R

There was only one house: that's back that far and it's one of the off conveyances and it's at the top of the hill and the stormwater is going to be controlled into.

R

Dry wells coming off the house itself right and everything else would be stable. Mr pennington, no.

Q

Thank you, mr pennington.

A

Here, here's your flat earth. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. We appreciate it. Yes, yes, I think if.

A

You could yeah um share it with them, and david could, possibly you guys want to send me copies.

S

They're going to put it in the record, sir, we're still we're still taking public comment, and this.

I

Meeting still has to go on and we have a other public comment to take for this.

I

Item so I think we're done with this portion and we're going to call some other folks up.

I

To see if there's any additional comment and then you can speak with them at your.

I

Leisure, after they're done; okay, thank you! So much. Okay, any other public comment on this.

A

Okay: okay, seeing none.

A

We would need a request for authorization to cluster I'll, make a motion that we authorize.

B

The plan to cluster for bradley's overlook.

A

Okay, any further discussion.

A

All in favor all right any opposed. Okay, then the request stands approved. Thank you. Thank.

B

You thanks. [music] We took our recess, so we will move right along [music] no stay. There.

B

David's next great.

B

P

Okay, david you're up all right. Thank you. So next on the agenda is.

P

um A constant flight plan, which is for good feelings, farm file, number s-22-0008.

P

So david b craft beer development review speaking over here for you.

P

And we have a few representatives for the project: here's and I'll. Let them introduce themselves.

U

Yeah good morning, commissioner randy bechtel with bpr surveying michelle mcaleer bpr survey, good.

V

Morning, everybody, my name is matthew. Lizariaga I've been uh miss stewart and her llc's attorney.

V

Beginning before the war, zoning appeals, I'm karen stewart, I'm one of the owners of the property.

P

Okay, so this concept site plan is before you, uh so the owner developer is proposing and currently.

P

Operating a country in on the property- and I said stated this is before you as a constant.

P

Plan so there's no action required. However, as with every site development plan, the planning.

P

And zoning commission may consider delegating approval of the final site plan to the chair.

P

So the property itself is located at 125, kate, wagner road and for those that are unfamiliar.

P

So it's highlighted here this is capable of the road. This is 32 and if you're.

P

Familiar uh this is the high school and the career and tech center up here.

P

So the property currently contains about 14 acres and it currently hosts a residence on.

P

Site there are horses on site, there's various outbuildings on site and then, as stated there.

P

Is a country in on the property as well so on february, 24 2021, the board of zoning appeals.

P

Granted a conditional use for a country in on this property, along with that approval, they.

P

um Add in seven conditions to that and those conditions created limitations on the frequency.

P

Of events that could occur the size of the events that could occur and then the timing.

P

Of those events as well so the subject, property is zone agriculture and it does have a gradual.

P

Slope, south away from kate wagner road. So the further you go onto the property that the you.

P

Know it slopes downward. There is a stream that crosses through the property, but there.

P

Is not a fema 100 year, floodplain designation on site? So although the property is partially.

P

Wooded, as you can see from the aerial, the majority of the property is open ground.

P

So the southern and eastern adjoining properties are zoned agriculture, so these two here and they.

P

Either host a private residence or are undeveloped, they're joining property to the west is also zone.

P

Agriculture and is fixed with an electrical substation on site and then those properties.

P

Across k wagner, road are either zone, are 40 000 or our 20 000, and host private residences.

P

So the subject- property and all of those adjoining properties are served by profit.

P

Well and septic systems and there's adjoining properties across the road are served by.

P

Public water sewer, so those south of kate wagner are private well and then those to.

P

The north are private or a public water and sewer.

P

So the concept site plan was submitted on march 29 2022 to the bureau development review.

P

And that was distributed to the review agencies. The site plan was subject to.

P

Citizen involvement on april 25th 2022 various comments were received, both verbal and written.

P

Written correspondence was provided within your packets.

P

So the comments received pertain to the concerns of additional traffic. With this use, the noise.

P

And public safety as well, so the plan proposes to utilize the existing residents. The existing garage.

P

And an existing concrete pad for the country in so the residence is shown as being here.

P

This right here is the garage and over here, is a concrete pad. That's used for the country in use.

P

A 100 foot by 40 foot concrete pad over here is also on site, and it is for the placement.

P

Of an event tent a 12 foot, wide, gravel driveway connects this concrete drive or I'm sorry. This.

P

Concrete pad back to the existing driveway and there is a metal pole building and a wood barn.

P

And those are shown here and those are not as part of this country and use they're on site.

P

For I believe for the agricultural use on site, but not for the the country and use so access to the.

P

Parking areas will be via the existing driveways, so the one 12 foot wide gravel driveway here and.

P

Then the other 12 foot wide pave driveway here to this one parking spot for the country and use.

P

So code states that a two-way access drive has to be 18 feet wide. There was a variance that.

P

Was requested in accordance with code and that of variance was granted by the director, so they are.

P

Able to to keep that 12 foot wide designation in lieu of the 18 foot wide requirement.

P

So, based on the projected trip generations with this use, a traffic study is required. However,.

P

As the board of zoning appeals imposed a limitation on 12 events per year between.

P

May and october, a waiver to the study was requested to the department of public works.

P

The department of public works agreed to waive this requirement with the conditions.

P

That a deceleration and an acceleration lane be added onto kate wagner road to access the.

P

Site as well as relocating the access of the site, so you can see this is the new access to the site.

P

This existing access shown here is to be removed and returned to grass.

P

And then you can see a deceleration lane running off the page here and then an acceleration lane.

P

Being added on the kate wagner, which should make for safer transitions into the site,.

P

So these conditions have been incorporated into the plan and the traffic study was.

P

Waived with that engineering review has granted approval of the content plan.

P

So code states that the parking requirements for a country in is and I'll just read it.

P

Verbatim one for each guest bedroom, plus one for each employee on the maximum shift.

P

So there's no new employees projected with this it'll just be run by the stewards.

P

So one parking space is shown at the residence and the country inn as stated being located right here.

P

uh Code also states that parking requirements for an assembly hall is one for every three.

P

Persons and that's based on the maximum capacity, so one of the other limitations.

P

The board is earning appeals imposed on this is a maximum of 250 guests. For these events and.

P

So that's the calculation we used was to base it off of that 250 guest with that 84 parking.

P

Spaces are required, those 84 parking spaces are shown up here as being on the existing grass.

P

And then, as well as four parking spaces over here for the handicapped spaces, so the code states that.

P

Parking is to be constructed on a durable and dustless material, meaning grass is generally.

P

Not allowed for that, however, with um with the limitations that was imposed by the board of.

P

Zoning appeals, a request was submitted for a variance to that requirement so that they did.

P

Not have to provide additional paving for those 84 parking spaces uh and accordance with code, as.

P

Stated they they did submit that request and it was granted by the director of land of resource.

P

Management, so they are able to maintain those grass parking spaces without having to pave that.

P

So, as mentioned, the property is served by private, well and septic systems. However,.

P

For events and ada compliant portable restroom trailer is to be parked near.

P

The event tent and that shown is being parked right around here.

P

And essentially that is to be used uh by the guests so that they're not overloading the.

P

System, that's on site, so the site is located within the no planned water and sewer service.

P

Area uh per the carroll county, water and sewer master plan and the carroll county.

P

Health department has granted approval of this concept plan with, what's being shown.

P

So the zoning office did provide additional comments that relate to the size and the location.

P

Of the existing sign that was to be addressed on the final site plan, um so just as a background.

P

The sign exceeds the size requirements outlined with carroll county code. It states that the sign.

P

Is allowed to be a maximum of three square feet, the existing sign on site is shown as being 12.

P

Square feet, so it was um a request, was received to permit the sign to stay 12 square feet to the.

P

Zoning administrator and it was determined that, with the sign not causing interference.

P

With incoming or outgoing traffic, with it not being lit, and with no opposition having been.

P

Received by the office, the zoning administrator allowed that sign to stay 12 square feet in size.

P

So force conservation and landscaping have approved this plan. Water resources will require an.

P

Easement at the stream, with additional details to be provided on the final site, development plan and.

P

The project is exempt from the code requirements of floodplain management, stormwater management.

P

Will be provided through the construction of an infiltration firm, which is shown as being up here.

P

And and they will also have sheet flow to the conservation area on site, stormwater management.

P

Has granted concept approval of the plan so in accordance with the site development plan.

P

Memorandum from the department of planning the land use is consistent with the 2014.

P

Carroll county master plan, land use, designation of agriculture and finally, the final state plan.

P

Will be tested and reviewed for adequacy of public facilities before being brought for final approval.

P

To either the full commission or the chair so before we, we move on just to give there's an idea.

P

As to how the site looks, I'm going to show a few picture slides here, so this is that 100 foot by 40.

P

Foot concrete pad: that's used for the invent tents, these top two pictures here, this bottom picture.

P

Is the concrete pad that is right outside the wooden barn that is used for the country and use.

P

These are some shots of that existing gravel driveway that branches off that existing paved.

P

Driveway yeah and then finally, these are some shots of now. This is the the old or I'm sorry.

P

This is the existing site entrance, um but, as stated, this will be moved to be further down.

P

The kate wagner road and then finally this is the sun that's on site. So this sign is, I guess, 12.

P

Square feet, so if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them as well as those here with me.

A

Gentlemen, I'm just like david, did a very nice job presenting this thing. We we feel like that.

U

The site plan is, in its final state contingent on some of the details that you have to do for.

U

Stormwater management, easements and those kind of things the sign if david goes back to the sign, the.

U

Stewards have been on this property since 1976. The sign has been here for that. That was that.

U

Was the name of the farm long before karen came up with the idea for a wedding venue? So you know.

U

That sign's been there and the the other thing. I think too, having been around a long time here, this.

U

Is one of those ag remainders, and I think this is an excellent use in alternative use, because.

U

It doesn't a property, does not lend itself to being farmed as an agricultural operation.

U

The stewards did did house a few horses around over the years, but other than that, if you look.

U

At the site, I imagine you've been there, it's not conducive to farming, but I think it's.

U

A very, very good use for one of these small ag remainers that we create over the years. Thank you.

A

And other comments.

V

I don't have any unless you have any questions with me.

A

Do not tell me tell me about lighting property for the venues.

U

Can you enlarge out any david to show them where the lighting is sir? That's a good question.

U

There is, there is some lighting at the entrance up here we go.

P

Okay, randy yeah, you you can see where the three arrows are and then there's a small.

U

Light post up at the entrance, so they where, where it uh exits the driveway to the top right there.

W

Go down just a little bit david right at the other entrance.

W

Up here and over to the left, yeah existing exlp existing lighting, it's lighting, it's.

J

There there's one on each side, yes and lighting for the parking area.

B

There won't be any lighting for parking area, or will it be temporary lighting or.

W

No, we have lighting the first one you can see as you're coming down the driveway. The three arrows.

W

Where it says existing so yep right there, that's the first one down on the building.

W

That you said is not a part of the um use. There is also a light on the corner of the building.

W

And they're they're the the larger magnification. I don't know what the term is.

W

um There's lighting on the garage that's being used as the country inn, there's lighting on the.

W

Side of the house there's lighting down at the restroom trailer, there's lighting a large light.

W

Post, you can see it he's designated it down there as well, so it is fully lit, especially.

W

When people are leaving the event, so they can get to their cars safely and leave safely so.

B

Where's, the lighting where the the tent will be existing lp. You see that and in existing.

U

Outdoor light there to the left of the trailer it's on a large pole, I don't know my husband.

W

May have to speak for how tall the pole is, and the light has been professionally installed by.

W

Electrician so that it projects out how far like falcons. But there is no true parking within the.

U

Parking spaces, the 84 spaces, that's showing there there's no light poles within that area.

B

And what's the topography to the property behind you know along what is that the 12-foot stone.

B

Drive what what is that topography? Is it up a hill down a hill, so the substation remove I'll.

P

Go back to those picture slides actually, actually it goes downhill from kate wagner road to the tent.

U

Site the property to the right is a substation for bg e, okay, so to write in the driveway I'll.

P

Mention too so this picture on the top left was taken down close to where that concrete pad is.

P

Okay, and so you can, you can kind of see the the slope as you move down, so the road is up here.

U

Do you have any, uh and the other thing is the water resource, protection, easement and.

U

You can see the screening to the left on that previous slide. That's screening, the.

U

Substation and then there's trees below below the tent area, that's being placed in that water.

U

Resource uh protection area, so it's really kind of hidden from the neighbors for the most part.

A

No okay. um Do we have any public comment.

L

Okay, I would, I would just comment that you know we've got.

L

Several properties like this in the county that are in relatively close proximity to residences.

L

And when I read through david, when I read through your verbiage, I see a couple of related permit.

L

Violations and that sort of thing- and we don't deal with that- I don't necessarily believe here.

L

And so it would be out of the ordinary for me to say that something like that. That has an impact.

L

On what we do here, it doesn't, but then it does in that when we hear noise in the paper about noise.

L

About traffic and that sort of thing it does impact what we do and and how we perceive venues.

L

Like this, I personally like them, I like attending a venue like attending events at places like this.

L

I think it's a creative thing as a business owner. I wish you luck at the same time collectively as.

L

A group when we permit a place for 250 people and we end up with three or four hundred people there.

L

You know we we do hear about it and um when a venue is supposed to shut down at 11- and it goes.

L

To 11 30 because everybody's having a great time, that's great good for them, but that's not what we.

L

Were we are supposed to allow on those properties at some point, we're probably going to need.

L

A noise ordinance and we've we've tried to get away from that because you know who's gonna.

L

Who's gonna enforce it right. You know he's going to go out there with a meter and say you know.

L

This this event's too noisy and that one's not so I'm kind of rambling here but I'll.

L

Just simply say you know, I would encourage you to to do what you're allowed to do and and.

L

Not push the envelope because, if you do, it will definitely impact others who want to.

L

Do the same some something similar and it may come back down to to bite you to.

L

um And I don't know how else to say it other than when I read it. I was kind of um concerned. Well, I I.

A

Do think you've run some wedding venues from there already correct. We've had 24 yes and over the past.

W

Year there has not been a single complaint, we stop at 10 o'clock, I have a decibel reader and I sit at.

W

The top of the driveway, so I respect everyone's privacy and noise immediately stops at 10 o'clock.

W

We only also, I only host 200. you've all granted me 250 um guests, but we only do 200. It's too many.

W

To have 250. so 200 is the maximum that I choose to do and that's in all of my.

W

Pr and in my contract so mr lester, may I inquire um not knowing uh the benefit of everything.

V

That you have in front of you. I have not had a chance to review it when you utilize. The word.

V

um Violation, my ears kind of go up, so I don't know if it's correspondence that you've received.

V

From members of the public that might predate the last time, miss stewart was in front of the.

V

Bza not her initial application, but just to speak on her behalf here, because that's my job.

V

um This has been a long process for her, where she has taken into account.

V

Virtually every single comment from a neighbor, whether they've just done it by email or whether.

V

They've come and spoken at a hearing or they've requested a hearing that they didn't bother to.

V

Show up at particularly about the size of her sign, so she has taken every effort that she can.

V

To adjust what actually happens and does, in my opinion, a fantastic and remarkable job to manage.

V

This great use, so if there's any specific violation that I was just curious, if you.

V

Could point me to that yeah I'd be happy to to grow that rather than read it into the record.

L

Or anything like that, I'm happy to provide you with the information we were provided. I'm sure.

L

David can do it as well. That's fine! It's not there's nothing glaring here, but you know just.

L

When you, when you read something like that, you just your antennas, go up, and so and not only.

L

That again, it's not this venue right, there's some there's some other venues that that you.

L

Know we all read about it in the paper: it's noise, not from your development. It's noise around this.

L

Industry, where people are saying wow, you know we bought this home here and that wasn't there and it.

L

Was supposed to be a putt-putt golf course and now they're having events there in live bands? That's.

L

A different thing than what was approved, and so this is different right, but it's all connected.

L

Right and and again we have talked about noise ordinances on this commission. Do we need one.

L

And at some point we probably will, because you know we're nice law-abiding, we all get along.

L

We we get, we have our you know, let's not violate each other's good. Nature sounds like you're, not.

L

um But again I I just I just wanted to say it out loud we're seeing more and more of these.

L

And as we do, we also you know from churches and- and uh we had something last month about a.

L

um A couple of months ago about a a religious center that it was, was you know it's it's more.

L

Than what they pretended to be, that kind of thing, and so you know you're permitted for.

X

250 you're holding it to 200.. I I applaud it right. So there's going to be somebody.

L

Like me, who has a daughter who wants to have a 300 wedding and we're going to push you right.

L

um Don't let us thank you so well, I, I think we're here to discuss good feelings farm, and I hear you.

A

And understand the frustration, I'm not sure the noise ordinances totally in our ballpark, but.

F

Well, uh yes, just for the commission's edification, so there is a noise ordinance and it used to be.

F

um As mr lester said really dependent on those decibel readers, but practically we found that.

F

Working with our zoning office and the sheriff's department that was hard to put into practice.

F

Because those meters a are very expensive and need to be like updated, like you know, apple.

F

Products they're updated all the time which is even more expensive, so um we got together with.

F

The sheriff's office and really put the onus on them to enforce unreasonable noise, which.

F

Their first amendment implications to that, um but it's really in the discretion of the.

F

Sheriff's department to enforce uh noise issues, if there's an unreasonable noise- and there are.

F

Violations attached to that, and then also um if there are any violations of the conditions that.

F

The board of zoning appeals put on to this project. The zoning office is able to enforce.

F

um Those so I just wanted to say that thank you for that, um so any other.

A

Amen: okay, then we need a motion to.

A

Oh no, do we need a motion, but we could delegate the approval of the final site plan to you.

A

Thing is there a second I'll, second, that okay, any other discussion.

A

um All in favor aye aye any opposed. Okay, then good luck to you.

A

um I look forward to seeing the final plan. Thank you. Thank you very much.

A

A

The book here's thin marple one up.

Y

All right this side over here is nice. I can see this little screen over here good morning.

A

Everybody good morning I am kirsten marple with carroll county's bureau of development review.

Y

I have for you today a final site plan for a project called drill, tech file, number s21029.

Y

This was before the planning commission somewhat recently in september. I believe.

Y

For concept review, it should look familiar well before we get into the plan review.

Y

If I could have everybody introduce himself over here, please I'm jeff ziegler with clsi.

E

Jason reinhardt project manager with drill tech. Thank you very much, okay. So yes, this plan.

Y

Should look familiar, we saw this recently for a concept review and at that time it was requested.

Y

By the planning commission that it come back for final review before a consideration of approval.

Y

Like I said, this is drill tech. This is a site located and the northeastern portion of the.

Y

County, it's this chunk of red right here. It's just outside the town of manchester. You can.

Y

See the town limits is this uh fuchsia line that borders the property? This property is not proposed.

Y

To be annexed, this property is in an annexation eligible area, but it's not within water sewer.

Y

Service area and is being processed under county regulations. It's a 16.5 acres. There is a site.

Y

Bring it in here we're on the east side of route 30., the site's currently undeveloped,.

Y

The site currently has a driveway entrance. There used to be a house on the property. There's a house.

Y

That was served by well and septic. The house is gone, but the driveway, the well and the septic.

Y

System are still in place. These orthographic images are a little bit outdated. I wanted to.

Y

Show you here this is for the perspective of the end of the driveway. Looking back you'll.

Y

See a structure there, that's a construction trailer for preparation of construction. That.

Y

Was placed there but has not been utilized in any way, since it was located on site.

Y

But we're waiting to to break ground to use that one so we'll bring us back to our site here. This.

Y

Is commercial medium zoning district within the county, like I mentioned, the site is mostly a flat.

Y

Field somewhat graded and it slopes down towards a stream on the eastern edge of the property. You.

Y

Can see some pretty dense forest around that stream? It's a bit of a slope down there like.

Y

I said, and also along the northern portion of the property as well. There's a forest boundary there.

Y

So, what's being proposed on this site with this final site plan, for which we are seeking final.

Y

Approval for today is a building for a repair facility garage and an attached office for drill.

Y

Tech drill, tech, drilling and shoring works within this state, and other states surrounding this would.

Y

Be the repair facility for their vehicles for their equipment. This is not like a jiffy lube or.

Y

Something like that, this is not open to the public. This would be specifically for drill text vehicles.

Y

So they are proposing a building on the property beyond the side facing route 30., we've shifted.

Y

Our our view a little bit here, but the stream is over here on the right. The route 30 is over here.

Y

On the left, proposing to utilize the existing driveway entrance and upgrading that to be a.

Y

Commercial entrance onto route 30., likewise our long route 30. You can't really see it from this.

Y

Image, it's pretty small, but they're also proposing a sidewalk the full length of the property along.

Y

Route 30., there are sidewalks in the area and this will connect the area in a walkable area.

Y

So coming off the full access driveway here to enter the site, the area will be gated as.

Y

Well, with the fenced and gated of chain link and then we'll come into the parking lot area.

Y

24 parking spaces which meets and exceeds the 22 number of parking spaces, which is the minimum.

Y

Requirement the parking wraps around the back as well, which also leads through drive-through.

Y

Garage entrances for the repair facility and the office is the portion of the building here to the.

Y

West, the main doors for the office in fact face route 30 and there will be a building.

Y

Mounted sign on this portion of the garage that you can see above the office building. That is.

Y

The only sign proposed for the building, as well as there are no freestanding signs proposed for.

Y

The site, it's all, building mounted signs and the photometric plan- that's provided shows that that.

Y

Light is limited to um within the boundaries of the property. Shielding has been provided, in fact,.

Y

For a redirection of the floodlight, rather for a light that previously on the plan that we looked.

Y

At a concept, I believe shine across the street we had received calls from neighbors over there.

Y

So that's the basics of the site layout. I don't want to hop around too much, but.

Y

Like I said, you had seen this before in september for our concept review.

Y

Prior to that, it was also before us for a technical review committee meeting and.

Y

Throughout the duration of the review of this project, we've received quite a bit of public.

Y

Inquiry quite a bit of questions and concerns from neighbors and concerned citizens. The town.

Y

As well, there's quite a bit of a packet there that you received to review prior to this meeting, that.

Y

Was inclusive of that there was also an email that was sent to the planning commission last.

Y

Week and today, following up with other concerns and questions that public members had we'll touch.

Y

On that, a little bit here as we go through the more technical portions of this project,.

Y

And I will also note too, at the planning commission meeting in september the.

Y

Planning commission had discussed and also requested that additional landscaping be.

Y

Provided that was the one main takeaway request for that through that meeting.

Y

I wanted to note that that was addressed and we'll get to that when we get to the.

Y

Planning, commission or excuse me when we get to the landscaping plan.

Y

So, to get to the more technical situation and the concerns that were held by the public.

Y

I'm going to zoom out a little bit, so this site, like I had mentioned, has a stream on it. That.

Y

Obviously connects to other streams. It's the way that that works to the east of the site. There are.

Y

Also municipal wells for the town of manchester um that none of them are close enough to be in this.

Y

Image but they're they're within this region here which, as you can see, is to the east of.

Y

The site, which is of a concern for members of the public, as well as the town of manchester.

Y

So I wanted to bring that those concerns were brought up before we get into the stormwater.

Y

Management system here because I'm going to go into a bit of nitty gritty detail there.

Y

Because it is important for this site there was a lot of attention on the storm water management.

Y

System for the site, I'm going to describe that in some detail. So there were concerns about runoff.

Y

From this property, especially considering the use being a repair facility, potentially impacting the.

Y

Quality of the streams, particularly because there is a active population of, I think it's brook trout,.

Y

A fish on that, yes, native book, trout, that's active in that stream. There was of a concern.

Y

Sensitive species as well as, of course, the proximity of the municipal wells in that area,.

Y

And the property that the wells are on is also a public park that the town maintains. So people like.

Y

To enjoy nature there and didn't want to see it damaged by any potential local development.

Y

So this project here it's a repair facility and the maryland department of environment, classifies.

Y

Different types of projects in different ways and there's different regulations applicable.

Y

To those projects, a repair facility like this is considered, what's called a hot spot, it's.

Y

Understood that there's a potential for it's a greater potential for pollution.

Y

Discharge than would be on some some other certain types of sites, so there are special.

Y

Regulations for hot spots, our storm water management office, is very familiar with that.

Y

um And ensure that those regulations were addressed through this review process.

Y

So there is quite a bit of detail with the storm water management. I want to start on this page here.

Y

Because this shows you, where the parking lot's going to be in the repair facility.

Y

This also shows the grading, and I know it's hard to see because there's a lot of lines.

Y

There's going to be a good bit of grading on here, because, what's being proposed, is a swale system.

Y

That conveys water to a underground stormwater management facility. So these dark lines here these.

Y

Little arrows and they show you the directions of swales and they go from towards route.

Y

30 around the parking lot to this storm water management system- that is an underground facility.

Y

So the swales, as well as that underground facility, are reviewed according to the hot spot,.

Y

Requirements, and that requires that the stormwater management storm water coming from the site.

Y

Is not allowed to just flow off the site and get soaked into the ground, because then you might.

Y

Have the contaminants go into the ground and when it's in the ground it goes into the water.

Y

So what they require is lining. They require a membrane which is a fancy, a waterproof membrane.

Y

Which is a fancy word for plastic, a nice heavy duty sheet of plastic or rubber-like material.

Y

um To ensure that the water that flows off the site goes to the storm water management.

Y

System here, in this case, the underground facility and the contaminants or potential.

Y

Contaminants are absorbed by the filter media in that facility, so the facility.

Y

Itself is lined to allow for the contaminants to be captured before the cleaned water is.

Y

Slowly, very slowly, discharged underground from that from the underground facility.

Y

So that is the basic requirement for mde for the hot spot. In this situation, understanding.

Y

The use of the property and the proximity of the natural resources and the wells, the stormwater.

Y

Management office found it necessary to also line the swale systems as well, to make sure.

Y

That all the water coming off the site goes to the facility before it's infiltrating into the ground.

Y

So that is, the water is essentially contained until it is captured and treated before it is.

Y

Discharged and it's discharged very slowly through that facility as well.

Y

So the the point of bringing all that up and describing all that and and such riveting.

Y

Details is just to explain that it's understood that there's a potential for pollutation on this.

Y

Property same way, there is on on really any road or from any vehicle or repair facility.

Y

So it was considered through the review process and addressed by means of stormwater management.

Y

This use is allowed on this property. This is a business owned property. It's not a matter of the.

Y

Use shouldn't be there, it's a matter of how to make this use work with where it is, and that's.

Y

What storm water management strive to do here? I'm not a stormwater management engineer. This is a.

Y

Pretty in-depth solution here to these concerns so I'll be happy to answer any questions about that.

Y

Anybody might have moving forward, but I'm going to get through the rest of this review here so.

Y

Okay, so this is where the driveway entrance is now right. Now, it's just gravel. It used to be for.

Y

A house like I said that would be wide end and updated to be a commercial entrance meeting. The.

Y

Requirements of the state highway administration, they have issued approval of that, as well as the.

Y

Sidewalk, which was another one of the requirements- this is just a simplified review of the site.

Y

I said this is all the paved area the building would be here off to the west.

Y

Facing the road these lines in the ground here, you can see our underground pipes.

Y

That will take any discharge from anywhere on the site to that storm water facility.

Y

You can also see, in this view of the existing septic system.

Y

That will be utilized as well as the existing. Well, that will be utilized for this use.

Y

And another thing that was hard to see in the last plan is this little feature here. This is a.

Y

In order to put sprinkler system in for this site, which is required by fire protection requirements,.

Y

They've put a water tank here on the property that will just hold water in case it's needed and.

Y

Then they pump house to provide pressure for the sprinkler system, so that will be a little building.

Y

There, between the parking lot and the driveway entrance health department, fire protection and.

Y

So on have approved these plans as well, of course, everybody's issued technical approvals. This is.

Y

The landscaping plan, like I mentioned previously in the september meeting, it was requested that I.

Y

Think previously, this landscaping might have only gone from here to to about here. Maybe.

Y

Along where the building is, it was requested that additional landscaping be provided and.

Y

That has been provided and the landscaping now stretches from the gated entrance. All the way.

Y

Up to the north, we'll get to it in the next page, but this landscaping will actually join in with.

Y

A forest conservation, easement area so you'll have the woods the landscaping, then the gate.

Y

And then more landscaping down here on the south portion of the property providing screening from.

Y

The adjacent commercial use- that's present there as well as there's some residences back here as.

Y

Well, as the public park, the additional landscaping provided in that area as well to provide screening.

Y

Jump back to that so, like I just mentioned, there is a forest conservation, easement area.

Y

On the property actually there'll be quite a bit of environmental resource protection, easements on.

Y

The property when this is all said and done this forest conservation area here is existing woods.

Y

And there's some honeycomb areas here here and here and that honeycomb simplifies that they'll.

Y

Be planting new trees there, as well as part of that conservation, forest conservation, easement.

Y

And then this entire region back here where we saw from the original orthographic views, that is all.

Y

Wooded most of those woods are remaining intact and will be collected and protected by a water.

Y

Forested water resource management easement, so that serves to protect the stream, as well as the.

Y

Trees in that area there's a fair bit of acreage there. I think it's three point: 3.8 acres for the.

Y

Water resource protection, easement area, which includes the trees as well as an additional 1.2.

Y

Acres of the forest conservation easement only up along this northern boundary here.

Y

I think that about covers it. These are the renderings of the building. Like I mentioned,.

Y

This is what will be facing route 30.. This will be the view when you first.

Y

Come in the driveway and look to your left with the office building facing route 30.

Y

And then the opposite views as well, so I would be happy to answer or try to answer.

Y

Any questions anybody might have from the commission then of course, the public as well.

Y

Thank you. I have a question. um The rainwater off the roof is that also going into that.

H

Storm pond, yes, everything is handled through there. I can't see quite the details, perhaps.

Y

Jeff might be able to provide details as to exactly where the storm the downspouts go.

Z

So so the downspouts this discharge right on top of the blacktop front, you know from the roof onto.

Z

The blacktop, but as kirsten mentioned there are drainage swales surrounding the entire property.

Z

um In front of the building along route, 30 that conveys all the runoff into the.

Z

Submerged gravel wetland area, as well as to the south that wraps around the the southern.

Z

Part that drains everything to it. So it's not a direct connection from the roof to the storm.

Z

Drain system, but the entire parking lot and paved area gets to the submerged gravel wetland area.

Z

Because that submerged area I mean what kind of infiltration does it have, because it's lined with.

H

Plastic, so right, that's the that's the um so. The maryland department of environment does not allow.

Y

For infiltration from sites that are considered hot spots and that's direct infiltration like.

Y

When the water runs off your driveway into your grass right, so the way this is handled is all of.

Y

That water runs into this the swale system and is conveyed to this treatment basin, which is.

Y

Filled with quite a bit of depth of filter media of various aggregates that collects the pollutants.

Y

There and there's a maintenance process for all that, too, that the developer is responsible for the.

Y

Owners responsible for and that our storm water management, office and specs on occasion for that.

Y

Filter media, so what happens? Is the water instead of just infiltrating right off the driveway.

Y

Goes into the swale system goes into the filter, media pollutants are captured there and it filters.

Y

Through to the bottom like, if you have a water, pitcher filter, it's just like that. So the dirty.

Y

Water goes in, it goes through this filter media, the filter media holds the contaminants and the.

Y

Clean water comes out, there's a little spout down there. Essentially that then we'll discharge that.

Y

Clean water, slowly back out into the wild world, my only question would be: why wouldn't you keep the.

H

Clean water clean coming off the roof. Why wouldn't you treat that separate just so you have that much.

H

Less running through the media interesting, I think that that's a that is a good question.

Y

I think that at this point, the way this project is handling the storm water, it does get treated.

Y

That's a good question as to why why further burden your system, um maybe a good way for a.

Y

Developer to handle the storm water in the future, but this does meet the requirements that are.

Y

Imposed for what's being proposed here, but I see where you're coming from it's a very good point.

A

Any other comments from jeff for owner now I can answer any questions you might have.

Z

Any further questions I remember the site plan from the previous time. You were here.

L

And appreciate you updating the site plan with the additional landscape, because I do.

L

Remember that being one of the things that we had expressed, the concerns was just making sure that.

L

We concealed that truck court, the crosstalk nature of the building- and I appreciate you.

L

You amending it the way you did. Thank you just a no. I was going to open it for public comment and.

A

Then we can have some more so any public comment on this. Okay, please state your name and address.

E

Good morning my name is randy miller and um I'm a board member officer and volunteer for.

E

Charlotte's quest nature center and town resident in manchester maryland.

E

um Do you need my street address, or um no I'm speaking today as a community member.

E

Out of concern of and in opposition to the project proposal made by drill tech, drilling.

E

And shoring ink to build an industrial vehicle maintenance facility at their proposed location.

E

My concern comes from occurrences, which occurred shortly after the initial proposal meeting for.

E

Their project, which occurred on september 20th of last year, despite still being in the concept phase.

E

And pending approval drill, tech had become had begun working on this project by digging moving.

E

And grading the soil in order to place an office building without a permit at 3411 hanover pike.

E

These actions resulted in two separate, stop work orders. There was also concern raised involving the.

E

Time that it took drill tech to take required measures to prevent erosion in relation to the.

E

Unauthorized work working with soil, the soil that had taken place. Please consider these occurrences.

E

In conjunction with the fact that drill tech's site is uphill from and directly adjacent to,.

E

Pine valley park, which is the location of wells that provide drinking water to manchester and.

E

Baltimore county proposed drill tech site overlaps with streams and wetlands that connect to these.

E

Water supplies and is also directly adjacent to wildlife conservation habitats. Given that drill.

E

Tech and so early on began to disregard policies and procedures. It would appear locally negligence.

E

To approve this project, if the environment and human health are considered, that is all.

A

And they eat buddy. Okay come up yep. My name is george hutman, a degree in environmental planning.

AA

I asked me to governor ehrlich and football teammate at gilman in baltimore.

AA

It's a brief comments. I cannot think of a worse site selection for this industrial site than this.

AA

Route 30 in the manchester area has some of the worst traffic congestion in the county.

AA

With no hope of a bypass and a failing intersection, just south with route 27.

AA

Northbound traffic accelerates downhill from manchester.

AA

Increasing the risk of collision with large slow-moving trucks entering and leaving drill, tech.

AA

It is not a flat site, it is sloped.

AA

Down to the trout, unlimited stream, wetlands and town wells and borders, the town nature park.

AA

The slope site for industrial use is unusual.

AA

Those are the questions we have are several, but one is what type of vehicles like how.

AA

Large are the vehicles be that are attempting to pull onto hanover pike.

AA

How much water use will there be from that single old? Well,.

AA

The town water supply is limited, and sooner or later we are going to have another drought.

AA

Thanks for listening, thank you.

X

Good morning my name is tim feezer lifelong carroll county resident currently live in.

X

Manchester about a mile as the crow flies in this site, I've also been an.

X

Officer in patapsco valley, chapter of trout, unlimited for about the past 35 years and our.

X

Mission is protecting the waterways of central maryland and we are no stranger to the folks.

X

Of the water resources departments of carroll, county and and of the state, dnr and and mde.

X

That a facility like this is even proposed or considered for a site like this. It's almost the.

X

Poster child of what should not occur on a site like this in a sensitive area down the hill that.

X

Has been mentioned is a stream, and that stream is a tributary of the south branch of the gunpowder.

X

Falls which is identified by the state of maryland as a tier three usage stream with an existing.

X

Population of native brook trout doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people, but it does to us brook.

X

Trout are an indicator species if brook trout can live in a stream. Water quality is good if brook.

X

Trout vanished from an existing habitat, something has happened and the water quality is suffering.

X

We've had discussions when I say we perhaps give out a trial on them, but have had discussions with.

X

The county and with the state over this particular project and also other projects that kind of fit.

X

This same mold across the state, uh dnr and mde, are actually currently looking at the the kinds.

X

Of stormwater management systems that are proposed here, feeling that there may be something better.

X

um And- and we know I know, commercial industrial development is such an asset to the county. I used.

X

To work in this building, I know what the ratio of industrial to residential carroll county is.

X

Way out of balance we need, you know the tax base for sure, but we really need to look at. Is this the.

X

Right place, you know for this kind of of business. At the very least, we would like to see the county.

X

Maryland dnr mde go back to the drawing board and look at this particular site and see if.

X

There is not a better, more efficient way to handle. You know the storm water, not saying.

X

These folks can't develop on this property, but maybe there's just a better way that they can do.

X

What they want to do, the environment can be better protected. So thank you for listening.

Y

If I could be to that point, we received receive mail at trout. Unlimited had sent that was sent to.

Y

The planning commission- and these were the topics that were discussed there, so it's my understanding.

Y

That to that final point, about going back to the drawing board talking about other options for a.

Y

Site like this or this site in particular, it's my understanding that when, when this.

Y

Site is submitted through the state for a notice of intent and that's something associated with the.

Y

Grading process, okay, so that's required for any disturbance over. I believe 30 000 square feet. It's.

Y

A significant amount of disturbance on the land which this property definitely achieves that so.

Y

The notice of intent is required to be submitted to the state. The state will then look at that.

Y

Project at that time, specifically that project and what's being proposed there and perform a review.

Y

At that time, so it's my understanding that that is something that this particular concern with.

Y

Regarding the tier, 2 and tier three water reviews, that's also handled specifically by the state at.

Y

That time, if something were to happen through that review process, that changes the site layout to the.

Y

Point where well, the layouts changed that might trigger a need for this plan to come back through.

Y

The review process with the county, it would have to be discussed and determined at that.

Y

Time how that will be handled internally here, but again, if the state finds that these that, if this.

Y

Plan was approved today or if it was approved in the future or if any plans approved in the.

Y

Future that goes through that notice of intent process. They would review it. Then, if there's.

Y

Tier two tier three waters: they review regarding that and would be able to say this isn't going.

Y

To work, we can't approve it and it gets kicked back into our process. So if again, if this was.

Y

To be approved today in the state were to find fault with it and require redesign. They would.

Y

Make that decision through their review process and it would come back to us- they won't issue.

Y

Approval for it to be built until that notice of intent is approved and that news intent can't.

Y

Be approved until the state approves it and if they identify these issues, it comes back to us.

A

Then okay, sir.

AB

Ron smith, president manchester, I live within 200 yards of where this site is there's numerous.

AB

Houses closer than I am the traffic problem is terrible in the morning and evening in both in.

AB

That whole area this morning, prod 8 30.. It took me about five minutes to get out of the driveway.

AB

And that was only because somebody stopped and let me out traffic was backed up out of sight down the.

AB

Hill as it is every morning, and it's just terrible place to have more truck traffic in that area,.

AB

There's already one truck site: that's there started out as a bus site 50 some years ago.

AB

And upgraded now to truck site depot and when they go in and.

AB

Out of there, no matter what time of day or night, it is, there's always a problem.

AB

So I didn't add more traffic to it with specialty trucks is a problem this year.

AB

And my understanding is drill tech contacted the town of manchester when it originally started to.

AB

Consider that site is trying to get used in town, water and town sewer and it was denied as a town.

AB

Didn't want to have anything to do with it and now they'd want to chop into the same water aquifers.

AB

Joins from the same drawn from the same order that was mentioned at the.

AB

Numerous years has been droughts and everyone in manchester has been limited.

AB

The amount of water usage and cutbacks so by putting something in like this is to me it's going.

AB

To create even more problems, what good it's going to do. Thank you. Thank you for your comments.

A

May have missed it, maybe it wasn't in there, but the um 30th a state road correct right, so they.

A

Have already seen this plan yeah state highway administration has approved the road construction.

Z

Plans with the entrance and the sidewalk and the grading within the state right away.

A

Was there any d cell or excel plane? um No, there is. There is the the widening of the entrance.

Z

In conjunction with the um the existing shoulder lane, that's there now to turn in.

H

Other question: I would well one of the other questions I would have is uh you know I think.

H

We talked about it before when you came in front of us how many gallons of water a day.

H

And do you have to have a permit with mde for your water usage? I'm sure it's not more than 10 000.

H

Gallons a day, but um I I don't know jason unless you know, but it they're only private, well system.

Z

um It is, it is only the bathrooms that are used inside for the offices and maybe.

Z

Some hand washing inside the maintenance office building. So it's not a lot of usage.

Z

um Their septic system is designed for the minimum use 400 gallons per day, which is more.

Z

Than adequate for the the use of the building, but again that's the minimum septic use that they have.

H

About do you have a wash bay to wash any of the equipment whenever you work.

H

On anything, you normally have to wash it so how's that going to be handled.

Z

um Jason, do you know if there's a wash bay proposed in there that there is, I I do know.

Z

That there are floor drains in there because of equipment coming through the building itself. There.

Z

Is floor drains in there, but they are drained into a oil grid separator outside the building.

Z

Which, then, is connected to the underground storm drain system? Which filters in through.

Z

The stormwater facility, and if I could I recall in discussion we had in a meeting recently it was.

Y

Noted in the planning commission report that the county and the developer and the engineer and the.

Y

Town of manchester met to address the town's concerns um of regarding the well and the and.

Y

Stormwater, essentially the stream and so on and during that meeting jason wasn't there, but bob.

Y

Was there and bob had explained when the town asked that question that the vehicles they're.

Y

Bringing in at the jobs they're at job sites working and they get covered in mud, because.

Y

That's what happens when you're digging in a job site before they can load those vehicles either.

Y

Onto a trailer or get it out into the road, the transportation requirements to clean them first.

Y

So you don't have rocks and debris coming off of them, so it was explained to us that all washing.

Y

Of debris like that will be occurring off-site prior to the vehicle, even heading to this property.

Y

um I don't know if they're going to have a hose, for you know incidental things you might have on the property, but that was our understanding. Is that all.

Y

The major washing mud and so on off these vehicles would occur off-site.

A

Like anything so well, is there lots of concern about water, runoff pollution.

B

The streams, the environment- I hear that and- and uh is there a way that we can add to the.

B

Recommendation that you know kirsten mentioned that the state will go through that process of.

B

Of uh in the department of environment, we'll review and maybe possibly update.

B

Because technology is changing all the time, is there a way to add to the recommendations that.

B

This it's, this would be okay, as long as the state standards are met.

Y

I mentioned the state's the one who has to approve that notice of intent and they're not going to.

Y

Approve it unless their requirements are met and if the requirements aren't met in the psychics.

Y

Redesigned we end up having to discuss with the developer, how how that process would be handled.

Y

And if they pursue a site plan, amendment obviously will come before the commission again for approval.

Y

Or the chair, it's kind of built, it's built in any any grading project that disturbs more than an.

Z

Acre not only has to go through the local tim hair braiding permitting, but it also needs a notice of.

Z

Intent which is issued by the maryland department environment, tim hair, will not low issue. His local.

Z

Grading permit until he receives the approval from mde, okay, okay, and I would say that there's.

H

Always going to be better technology, so I mean you can't say: oh there's something going to come down.

H

The road there's always going to be something coming down the road, so current best available.

H

Technology, I agree anything, nothing, nothing else. Even I mean that hill as it is, I mean you.

G

Have the sheets and then it goes down into that other shopping center and then there's already.

G

Looks like a bus place big great place, that's on top of the hill anyway, so I mean I kind of look.

G

At it that, potentially, you know the stuff that they're putting in, if anything, it's going to help.

G

Try to get some of that stuff because it all it's all running down that hill one way or another. So.

G

This may potentially help you know clean that whole hell up to begin. To be honest with you, so.

A

Commissioner, any comments none today. Thank you. Okay,.

A

All right um been hearing. No other comments. um Does somebody wanting to make a recommendation.

A

Read it off of here. uh Well, yeah, you don't need to read it yeah. I would just say I'll make the.

H

Recommendation to approve with the pursuit of chapter 155 staff recommends approval.

H

Of the state development plan subject to the six just six, it is six the six uh conditions.

B

A second okay, any further discussion, all in favor any opposed. Okay, then.

A

Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time today.

A

um Number 14 is recess a short 10 minutes. Five minutes five yeah five, eight months to get out.

A

A

Back in session and moving forward with the water and sewer triennial try annual update.

A

um Price good morning, I believe it's still warning. Yes, it is.

T

So this is where you came by brief, just the commission about a month and a half.

T

Two months ago, this is the actual certification for the county portions of the trilonial update.

T

Which are the freedom service areas for water and sewer and the hampstead service area for sewer.

T

So again, why are we updating the plan? Well, first. Is a state mandate every three years to review and.

T

Update the plan for all service areas within the county, which includes all municipalities which, as.

T

A service we include those in the trellonial update um again, like I said we update this.

T

For all this document for all county-owned systems, in addition to all the municipalities.

T

And also in order for a project to move forward a development project, it needs to be within the.

T

Master water and sewer master plan if it's going to be served by public water and public sewer, so.

T

If it's not shown on the master plan, um if it's in any category besides existing priority or.

T

Future then, those projects will not be able to move forward on public water and sewer.

T

So what has changed a couple of things? Nothing major. The biggest change would.

T

Be the 2019 amendment to the carroll county master plan, which is in 2014, and that was.

T

Pretty much working on the boundaries of all the maps, because some of the growth areas did.

T

Contract so those areas we worked on and then, of course the other big portion is the city of.

T

Westminster their pilots study for the water use facility has completed so you may remember in the.

T

Okay, we're in spring the fall amendment of the actually I'm sorry, maybe the 20. It knows the.

T

Following amendment, we had a split allocation for the city of westminster, 500, 000 gallons in.

T

Priority and 500 000 gallons in future, that was to show this one million gallon per day capacity.

T

That this water reuse program was looking to do that was approved. However, in the meantime, between.

T

That approval and that submission that approval and this the city has moved far enough ahead.

T

They are able to look at and bring that total 1 million gallons into the priority service area.

T

For water, so that's the one big issue issue, I'm sorry, one big change for the city of westminster.

T

Is now realizing that additional 1 million capacity in the priority service area for water.

T

And then, of course, all the amendments to the 2019 water and sewer master plan.

T

Are incorporated so anything that happened after the approval date in july of 2019 are.

T

Now incorporated as amendments some of those are map amendments. Some of those are text, amendments.

T

Some of those just table amendments- all those are included in in this actual section. In this.

T

So what have I done? It was the county done. We had meetings with all the providers, all municipalities.

T

um Some of them were fairly in-depth and those they were ongoing. Initially, we met 101 and you.

T

Know, provided them their their original chapters for the 2017-2019 master plan, as well as the most.

T

Recent maps for each for them to look at review to see if anything has changed when it comes to.

T

Allocation or not allocate maps that are for areas that are in now that may have.

T

Been in priority, but now have been built upon, need to be existing pipe diameters.

T

That type of thing, and then of course, when it comes to the flows and usage when it for.

T

You know flows for sewer and then pumpage for the wells on that aspect of what their.

T

Most recent numbers are, and some of those range anywhere from 20- it's usually a three year average.

T

So it's 20 20 to 23 or 19 to 22, depending on when they provided their their final stoppage.

T

um And then again, they also list any capacity hinting projects. So these are projects that.

T

Could potentially enhance the capacity of a plant again going back for the city of westminster, their.

T

Water reuse project is on there as a capacity enhancement project of one million gallons.

T

There are other projects that are listed, but a lot of those do not have capacity enhancement. They may.

T

Be relining of pipes, they could stop leakage or, in the case of inflow and infiltration of storm water.

T

Getting into and treating storm water versus actually getting getting to the uh the people.

T

And then properties in long range are not counted towards the estimated demands you may see them on.

T

The maps and it's if it's the water map, it's blue hatched, if it's the sewer map, is green hatched.

T

But, however, when it comes to the demands to the system, those 10-year 10 plus years, those.

T

Are not allocated or not estimated in those maps or on those tables. I'm sorry for demand.

T

So where are we now? The all the town planning commissions, city planning commissions, have.

T

Reviewed this I have gone in front of them and asked for their consistency with their most.

T

Recent master plans and we have received those certifications of consistency with the master.

T

Plan for all municipalities, the one exception is mount airy. We're going to go in front of.

T

Them in june, however, I've been working with their planning department, as well as their town engineer.

T

And we have received all the information and put it have inputted into our master document.

T

And then have sent it back to them just for a final review to make sure everything is. Is.

T

Good, so all the information that that I receive when it comes to the chapters for water and sewer.

T

Is all provided by the providers themselves, the municipalities? So when you see flow data, if you.

T

See any when it comes to any of the numbers, those come from. Those providers themselves.

T

The only time that we make estimates is in table 15, which is the water projection table.

T

And table 32, which is the sewer projection table when it comes to priority and future.

T

That is where we utilize the county's billable land inventory and the state's mdes matrix for.

T

250 gallons for residential demand per unit. And then when it comes to water. And when it comes to.

T

Commercial industrial, we utilize 800 gallons for industrial and 700 gallons for commercial usable.

T

Land, those numbers again, those are estimates, so I multiply if there's ends up being a 100 units in.

T

Priority multiplied by 250. You have 2500 gallons of what the potential demand is going to be.

T

Obviously, with that being said, we realized the existing number. That is what we're hoping to be.

T

Is our reset knowing that it's, even though it's not a true actual of what is being billed, it is.

T

More precise than the estimate. So if you divide that number by the number of potential units.

T

That should be hopefully less than 250. I mean yes. Could it be above that it could, if.

T

It's residential, but typically we've come to find that the actual usage is less so that's sort of.

T

Where the numbers or that's the only place, the numbers are not provided by the municipalities.

T

This map is just the overall planned water surface areas for the entire county.

T

um Yeah, you know the waters on the left and you have the sewer on the right.

T

So here's the more in depth, here's the most recent here's the giraffe map we have for the freedom.

T

Service areas and I sent out in your packets a map that was a little bit bigger. Hopefully, you're able.

T

To you're able to see that and read it in a pdf form and scroll in and zoom in to certain areas.

T

As you can see, and when it comes to the water service area, there's a little areas of long.

T

Range but a majority of the service area is either existing future priority for water.

T

When it comes to the sewer side, there are a little bit more bigger areas of.

T

Of long range, mostly in areas that are that were constructed prior to when the system went into.

T

Place or after the system went into place um well, they're built before they're constructed.

T

Prior to when the system was was done and then so those are usually larger, neighborhoods that were.

T

Built in the you know, 50s 60s and 70s uh give or take so a lot of these you'll see a majority.

T

Of it is in the existing service area for sewer, the town of sykesville is included in our actual.

T

Freedom service area for both water and sewer so you'll, see when the water wise. I believe.

T

Majority of the town is within the existing surface area, with the exception of, I believe.

T

Two or three small parcels and then on the suicide same thing: they utilize our system.

T

And again, this is also for the town of hampstead, so that this town has already seen both the water.

T

And sewer side, even though the the county is the provider for sewer, as you know, the town has.

T

Development occurs. He also wanted to see just to make sure they're in line with with development.

T

Of what's going on, even though we do, we provided they're the ones that oversee all the development.

T

So the the one big change here would be um just updating areas that would have been, maybe in.

T

Priority prior and now because they've been built upon, we make them existing. So that is something.

T

I've done if a development, uh this I'm going to use meats crossing up in tontitown at the.

T

Previous at the previous one, the meats crossing maybe had a very little bit of existing service.

T

Then, as we've got when I've talked with the town with the city, now it is all existing.

T

Because their permits have been totally pulled in the in the city's eyes, they'll.

T

Be connecting relatively soon so we made that area totally existing now. So a lot of that is.

T

Something that has been in the on the books, instead of doing small little lots every so.

T

Often in a larger overall subdivision, if the area has been complete or almost complete, because all.

T

The permits to build have been pulled. We bring that into the existing service area.

T

So, as you may see, you know, the biggest change here was the and during the amendment the new england.

T

Part of the ida property, the northern industrial section we brought in the very top portions of.

T

That into the priority service area to better, allow the county and the town to to you know, send.

T

That show that, as an area is ready to be built that all that information, all that demand is there.

T

And these are, this is sort of. This is how the plan is, is consistent with the carroll.

T

County master plan um again we're. We did definitely talk with all of the.

T

Providers all the municipalities, all the major players as well as talks back and.

T

Forth with mde mde has a copy draft copy of all of this, and they were viewing right now.

T

um So we are talking, you know, always in talks with each of the providers, each their.

T

To make sure our information we're receiving is accurate and what they're providing is also.

T

Accurate on their end um again, we're also looking to help, hopefully look at protecting.

T

And enhancing the water quality of the county, so in essence using as part of the wre, which I know.

T

The the section that's within this this plan is still the one that was adopted in 2010. They were.

T

In the process of updating that, however, is not in a full, it's not in an air portion. Yet where.

T

That we wanted wanted to insert it in this because it's not been adopted and approved, so we're still.

T

Utilizing a lot of information from 2010, however, that information is still very viable today.

T

So we're making sure that the areas that are within the growth area, those.

T

Are the places that you do want to have water and sewer service.

T

Again, to the extent feasible provide you know adequate and appropriate community investment.

T

Projects to whether it's you know extend service or in some cases, it's to work on areas that have.

T

Had issues like the one big and shallow up in hampstead the shiloh pump station, that isn't is I.

T

Believe in the cip to get a refurbishment, because they've had issues with that plant trying to to.

T

Get what need is needed pumped so they're looking to to refurbish that, so a lot of it is most of the.

T

Cip, money is going towards whether it's within the county or the towns of leakage, issues where.

T

You realign it so you reduce leakage or when it comes to ini things not getting into the system.

T

Or replacing the lines altogether because they've been in the ground for 70 80, sometimes 90 years.

T

And I think some of those cases I believe new windsor may be one of those where some.

T

Of their lines are relatively, if not the original they're, not far off from being the original lines.

T

And you know looking at protecting the mineral resources so around new winds.

T

Are looking at making sure everything is, is concise and that the areas that are being.

T

Developed do not have any undue effect on the mineral resources that may be there.

T

um And then facilitate a development pattern again trying to facilitate and develop within.

T

The growth areas, because those are the areas that have the water and sewer infrastructure.

T

Whether it's existing or in some cases planned and if it's planned, is typically.

T

On the burden of the developer, to extending the infrastructure to those developments.

T

And then you know pursue policies that facilitate development in appropriate areas.

T

That's what this is looking at, you know making sure that there is water and sewer.

T

For the areas that need to be that are looking to be developed um in that aspect of things,.

T

So this is the water demands table for overall, that's been updated.

T

And you have for this one you'll just have the freedom cycle area so right now we're looking.

T

At a you know, we have a expected capacity or right now, existing capacity of you know.

T

4.4 million gallons- and we only have a demand at this point in time- that's pretty much everything.

T

That was has been pumped of just a little over 2 million gallons, and there is. There are projects.

T

To get the plant capacity up to seven million gallons with a potential demand in year, 10 of.

T

My eyesight's got that 3.091. I believe that's what that one says.

T

And then here is the sewer section so hampstead they have.

T

In some areas, so their their big one is when it comes to the priority in the future.

T

Because priority does take into account, yes, it does take into account areas that are.

T

That could be potentially developed. There is one large subdivision that potentially could.

T

Be developed in the in hampstead, which is uh hampstead overlook, which is in the cities or.

T

The towns review process and it's been in the review process for a while now.

T

um So that number and it's for 255 total total units. Some of those.

T

Being town homes, but also majority of it being single-family homes, so that number definitely.

T

Shows and it it shows, a big big increase, however, is in the priority service area, but again not.

T

Really, knowing when they're going to connect, that number is a placeholder per se that demands a.

T

Placeholder and just so, you just also sort of to know when I compared the present year for this, for.

T

The 2023 to the present year numbers we had in 2017 2019 the demands. All the demands went down.

T

So I think that, at least for me that it appears to be showing that things are new low flow technology.

T

They're demand, you know, especially some of these numbers, yet you remember, we were pulling.

T

These numbers from when a lot of people when coveted when everybody was a lockdown, so usage.

T

Presumably could have been higher, however, when it came to the pumpage data and the well.

T

In the flow data, the numbers were less um so there was less usage overall. So again, I think.

T

I'm taking that into account, as potentially people updating their their systems, whether.

T

It's sinks, toilets whatever it may be, to not utilize as much with the new lower flow.

T

Technology now is that a guarantee it was that set in stone. No, it was not, but it's the it's. What I'm.

T

I perceived especially it was not just one or two: it was everybody across the board. Had less usage.

T

Now, looking at the freedom sitesville area, we have you know, total capacity at the plant is.

T

3.5 million gallons and in the future in future, planning will include everything.

T

We're showing just a little over 3.2 million gallons of total demand, so the freedom, sexual.

T

Area is a unique area is because the demand or demand is broken down between three different.

T

Players, you have the state which has a set amount. Then you have the war field, which.

T

Is included in what the county perceives as their demand? We don't perceive it. I'm sorry.

T

As as part of our demand- and then he had left whatever's left over is the county demand so.

T

It's all in there. We, unfortunately, we don't know what the state uses, how much they use.

T

um In essence, where, when it comes to the numbers, we don't have that that general data, however.

T

It's perceived that you know their actual usage is they have you know a set aside demand of.

T

My understanding, all the information I've had and seen over the years minus the warfield process.

T

Project is roughly 758, 000 gallons a day is what the state has their allocation for. The springfield.

T

Hospital complex is what we consider it as, but that includes a lot of different properties in.

T

That area of of the freedom area and then the warfield complex, has 142 000 gallons a day.

T

Which a lot of that has has been built, um I think, fortunately I don't believe their actual usage is.

T

Anywhere near that, which is a good thing, however, that is set aside just for the warfield complex.

T

And the county is unable to utilize any of that that demand for our for us.

T

So here's where we are depending on the steps on depending on how today.

T

Turns out with the certification is on may 25th next week. My plan is to brief.

T

The border county commissioners and request a public hearing.

T

If that goes well, then the public hearing will be set for the june. The 16th.

T

Thank you just want to make sure I thought everybody wanted to work on friday. All right.

T

So that'd be june, the 15th thank you um so june. The 15th would be the public hearing.

T

And we'll have uh it'll be dually advertised in the careless carroll county times will be.

T

It'll be on the website, so the information will get out to to everyone to for the public hearing.

T

um Should the you know the public hearing go well, then the adoption we're looking for on june, the.

T

29Th it'll be adoption with a resolution to for the adopted water sewer master plan to the state.

T

Of maryland for their final approval, and that's where the ford mde comes into play, this plan does.

T

Not go into effect until mde gives their final approval, so that could be, if we do say forward.

T

It at the beginning of july, if it takes them three or four months, anything that comes in.

T

Will fall under the existing plan, which is the 2017 plan or 2019, depending on how.

T

You want to look at it, it was 2017 when it started, however, circumstances push it off.

T

To 2019, with trying to work with other other things and getting all the data we needed so.

T

In the meantime, the 2017-19 plan is the plan that stays and moves forward. Once this plan.

T

Does get adopted by the state whenever that may be, it now becomes the domain. The.

T

Overwriting document and supersedes the 2017 plan and we move forward from there with biannual.

T

Updates, if they are needed for amendments and then you know, probably roughly two and a half.

T

Year and a half two years from now, let's start this process all over again to get ready for the.

T

26-27, water and sewer master plan update I'm sorry, so that is the pretty much all of what I have.

T

um As you'll see, there's a recommended there's a recommended motion on the screen. I'm sure.

T

Commission has any questions I'll be happy to answer that if there's any questions.

T

In the public I'll be happy to answer, those is the best I can and go from there. Thank you. Thank you.

A

B

Like a couple, tony towns has been uh in the news before us about their water issues and their.

B

Leakage and their infrastructure give a little update about where they are, because I noticed on.

B

Some of the uh I guess, the water part and the sewer part the sewer.

B

Looks like there's, uh you know, projecting increase there, but the water wasn't so much.

B

um All right is: are they working on their problems? They are.

T

um Correct, yes, sir, they are looking on that they are taking.

T

um I think one of the areas they may have just completed is the roberts mill area of the I'm not.

T

Sure what the length is, but they need to replace or line those pipes uh lining lining pipes, is.

T

Is more cost effective because you're not ripping you can get started at one end and.

T

It push the lining through and then and then it in essence it like it expands and then hopefully.

T

The leakage or on other side infiltration uh stops so, yes, tiny town is working on both leakage when.

T

It comes to loss of water and infiltration when it comes to groundwater, getting into their their.

T

Sewer system, it's a long process and it's one of those, as my understanding talking with utility.

T

You're never going to completely stop anything as in you're, never going to get it. 100 percent.

T

Non-Leaking or non-infiltrating because as soon as you fix something here at some point in time,.

T

Something down on the other end or something's going to happen, so the recoup rate can occur.

T

And these are projects that do not add capacity at all. However, they are able to recoup capacity.

T

So, instead of let's say if their number, when it comes to their their, their total demand, is let's.

T

Say it's 450, 000 gallons, we'll say about 100 000 of that could be infiltration licenses or leakage.

T

So they're able to fix those leaks and get it down to 50 now they're able to utilize 50, 000 gallons.

T

They recoup that fifty thousand that can now go to other other. You know users versus that's just.

T

Leaking out of the pipes and nobody's actually getting any water same thing with sewer they're.

T

Able to recoup that and utilize that, hopefully for users and not treating rain water, yes,.

T

Most every single jurisdiction isn't is working on leakage or ini for sewer yeah. Those they're.

T

Long ongoing projects that I think it's one of those, if you try to list every single one.

T

Of them it was, the document will be so long. However, the they are listed on here, because.

T

Obviously, if they want to get money for it for the state or if they're asking for permits, then.

T

The state will say is that one of the the projects on here there are some areas that.

T

When it comes to is a a catch-all of the wrong word, but there may be under priority, projects, is.

T

Maintenance of the system of the lies or something specific where I've talked with the state and.

T

They've even called me about certain things, and I said this is what it states like. That's.

T

Our understanding is okay, they're, maintaining so we're fine with how this is moving forward.

T

um So is there a targeted number for leakage, percentage that you know, gold.

B

That everybody's trying to achieve or some kind of range or it's my understanding- is it's.

T

You're always going, I think when it says when it comes to I, and I I believe, you're.

T

Always the industry, understanding and the industry average is around. 30 is going to.

T

Be what you're always going to have for ini for for leakage? It could be.

T

Maybe around the same the 30 give or take, but I think again, depending on the pipe you know.

T

Old terracotta pipe as it you know, it's that the newer pipe is, and that kind of thing it's just.

T

How it's the natures that everybody when they work on it, they realize they're going to have.

T

25 30 give or take of this they're, not that's not going to get to a user.

A

M

All right for somewhere, in the back of my mind, I thought springfield had their own water and.

L

Treatment facility there on site, they do not, they didn't, that is they do not. They have their own.

T

um I mean there are walls on that particular site, but the those walls are not production. Walls for.

I

Springfield hospital complex when you drive through there, I could have sworn there was.

L

A treatment facility, it looks like one, you were there at one point in time: you're correct.

T

There was a treatment, it is not working, but I looked at the most recent google street view.

T

If it's working I'd be scared, then all the winners are broken out. There's vegetation all over it. So.

T

Yeah there's, yes, I think. Maybe yes at one point in time. I have no clue when there there was a plant.

T

On site, however, the building's there, but when it comes to treatment aspect, it is not in use.

I

Everything goes through a maryland environmental services treatment facility.

A

um Can you put the message one more time for us to cheat.

T

You want yeah, I don't know if anybody, if the public.

T

On the wrong way, I'm sorry.

A

Yeah we have public comment after both um or do you want to take it separately? Madam chair, it's.

I

Up to you, if you want to do public comment now for this item, that's totally fine. Okay,.

A

We'll take your comment: if you want to step up and give you an aim.

D

My name is joanne grundy and I'd like to comment on the water and sewer plan, with a focus on the.

D

Freedom area in regards to sewer, so I think everybody up here probably knows sewer- is.

D

The biggest limiting factor to growth in the largest unincorporated designated growth area.

D

Which is freedom, but it should not be compared to other unincorporated areas without public.

D

Sewer available, especially because the large portion of this area is a priority funding area.

D

County connected older homes, on small lots in the freedom area, as infield development occurred.

D

But they stopped this about 20 years ago. Infill development has made public sewer available on.

D

Small lots on septic that were originally planned for future connection. The county.

D

Should allocate this limited infrastructure to existing development before future development.

D

There are currently no plans or money set aside to expand the sewage treatment plant once the.

D

85 percent capacity trigger is reached the draft plan's long-term recommendations, the.

D

10 plus years include expanding the plant to accommodate homes on small lots, which leaves.

D

The burden of failing septic systems and well-contamination on individual property.

D

Owners for the foreseeable future. This is not sound planning and it's not in the interest.

D

Of the county, the community or the environment, starting on page 101 of the plan are problem areas.

D

And also table 17f and table 27b of the draft plan. Don't include problem areas documented in.

D

Previous water and sewer plans in the freedom area. This includes merriman heights carol, dale carroll.

D

Square winchester, hills and emerald valley. I have from my public information act, requests with.

D

Price and linda, I have copies of the 85 and the 77 plans serving those areas as having sewer problems.

D

The gaither areas only included on table 17f. This area is still listed as understudy.

D

And it has been for over 10 years why the county continues to allocate sewer to undeveloped parcels.

D

Some areas are known, have known, septic issues were connected to public water due.

D

To contamination of private wells, but the septic systems remain in use. Many residents still rely.

D

On private wells for safe drinking water and many are in areas where septic systems.

D

And problems are documented in order for the plan to probably properly illustrate public.

D

Health and environmental concerns- those tables, 17f and 27b- should be updated to reflect all.

D

Known areas that have had septic problems and remain on septic systems for disposal, the 2021.

D

County survey, targeting owners of small lot residential septic systems indicated.

D

Over 30 percent were having septic issues over 50 percent, had original systems and over 70 percent.

D

Were interested in connecting to sewer septic systems are expected to last 20 to 30 years.

D

Under normal conditions, newer systems in the freedom area are experienced in failures, dueing to.

D

Rising groundwater levels after storm events, the largest reallocation of public sewer from small.

D

Lots on septic wasn't around 2016. dan hoff served on the planning and zoning commission at this time.

D

And made a comment who why why wouldn't someone want? Why would someone want to pay a connection.

D

Fee for public sewer when they could replace their failing leech field for five thousand.

D

Dollars I can tell you from personal experience and experience from talking to several landowners.

D

It's closer to forty thousand dollars and up with grant funding on a small lot by today's standards.

D

A 20 percent, the reserve for emergency connection is meaningless to individual landowners on small.

D

Lots connecting one property, a time is expensive, complicated and time consuming and unless public.

D

Sewer has already been brought to the neighborhood. Many are denied access, the planning department.

D

Planning and zoning commission and the board of county commissioners can and should do better. Your.

D

Public servants and decisions made to reflect your best efforts to assist the communities throughout.

D

The county that cannot do it on their own. I happen to work at the u.s army corps of engineers and.

D

One of my current projects is helping a town in pennsylvania, connect, 600 homes to public sewer. Now.

D

That it has finally reached their back door. I just want to remark mr price or mr wagoneer. I'm sorry. I.

D

Said he mentioned that within growth areas, water and sewer should be available. It is not to over 2.

D

000 homes in the freedom area, thank you for your time. Thank you. Does anybody wish to have these.

D

Copies of the problem, areas that are not in the water and sewer triennial update for six of them.

D

Is anybody interested.

L

um Yeah I'd take a copy sure. Thank you.

A

I think we um are familiar with some of them. Okay, um any other public comment. Okay,.

AC

Hi, my name is kristen morinelli, I'm an environmental engineer and I'd like to.

AC

Comment on the public sewer system in the freedom area, there are many homes in the area that are on.

AC

Septic systems which are expected last 20 to 30 years, but many people don't realize they.

AC

Have an issue until they try to sell their home or until there's a drastic failure.

AC

Many homes in the area have septic systems that are beyond the expected.

AC

Lifespan, so their systems may be failing and they don't realize it.

AC

Aging homes on lots, two acres or smaller, which applies to most of us, could have could face.

AC

Additional burdens when their systems fail because of newer regulations, since their original systems.

AC

Were installed, they could face estimates of at least forty thousand dollars to replace their.

AC

Septic systems, instead of the expected five to ten thousand dollars per standard system.

AC

People don't have this kind of money available to replace the septic system and if it's a system.

AC

Fails it's often an emergency and must be taken. Care of immediately systems are failing, not only.

AC

Due to the age of the systems, but also due to the high water table encountered in the freedom area,.

AC

I've spoken to several people in the area who have had failed septic systems. They wanted to come and.

AC

Speak today, one man couldn't come because he works during the day. A woman couldn't come because she.

AC

Had child care obligations, but they did say I could relay their stories to keep it short.

AC

uh They live in the freedom area on lots that require upgraded unaffordable systems. A man told.

AC

Me his system failed because of the high water table and he's now in the process of receiving.

AC

These high cost estimates he's worried about his property values and the potential of having to pay.

AC

For another system in 30 years, when the system he has to install now fails, uh one woman told me her.

AC

Septic system backed up into their basement, they had it repaired and it happened again. They applied.

AC

For a grant, but because of the grant system, they had to wait for a few months before they could.

AC

Even apply they had to move out of their home for several months until they could actually get the.

AC

Grant payment and replace their septic system. um I know if that happened. To my to me, I wouldn't have.

AC

The option of moving in with family in the area she told me her neighbor system also failed and.

AC

They had to install an expensive system, yet another neighbor system failed years ago, but.

AC

They don't have the money to replace their septic system, so they have ignored the issue. The woman I.

AC

Spoke to told me there's human excrement in the water flowing through the culvert by her house.

AC

Failing septic systems have the potential to impact the area's groundwater as well. The.

AC

Woman I previously mentioned buys bottled water for her family to drink. I wouldn't.

AC

Want to drink groundwater from an area with septic system contamination, but I'm afraid.

AC

That's exactly what we'll be dealing with in the future if public sewer isn't available.

AC

I've worked on remediation projects for homes with contaminated groundwater and.

AC

Their property values plummet. The people often have nothing of value to show for their homes.

AC

Public sewer capacity needs to be reserved for areas that will need it in the near.

AC

Future waiting until there's an emergency doesn't allow people the ability to connect.

AC

The county has all the permits showing the ages and types of septic systems currently in use. The.

AC

County should put this information on a map and determine the communities that are expected to.

AC

Have these expensive septic replacements and prioritize connecting them to public.

AC

Sewer to assist the existing residents and protect our communities, groundwater.

AC

We've heard from the planning department that the extension of public sewer it's a.

AC

Lot smaller than one acre would be inefficient, an inefficient use for the public sewer because.

AC

It is a limited service, yet that's exactly what's being planned in some parts of the freedom area.

AC

The county has a responsibility to the existing residents to provide the infrastructure.

AC

Necessary to ensure basic health and environmental safeguards for its citizens. It's short-sighted to.

AC

Not extend the public sewer system to these aging homes with older septic systems, these systems.

AC

Will fail and the homeowners could face exorbitant unaffordable bills to replace their septic systems.

AC

As already discussed, some may not know, their system is having an issue and some who can't.

AC

Afford this may try to avoid the issue altogether, creating a health risk for the community.

AC

Groundwater could be contaminated, necessitating homeowners to not only replace a system, but.

AC

Their neighbors also drill new wells and pay for that out of their own pocket. The county.

AC

Should allocate this limited infrastructure to existing communities before extending it to new.

AC

Developments leaving individual homeowners to bear this burden when the county could help its.

AC

Citizens avoid this issue is not good planning for the interest of the community or the environment.

AC

Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else I can say on a personal note, I certainly sympathize with you.

A

I live in gamber and we are way outside of any priority and had to replace our system a couple.

A

Years ago, so it is unfortunate, but it is something that ends up being a necessity. So with that any.

A

Other comments, gentlemen, I would just ask: why was it taken out at some point along the way? Why was.

I

What taken out, why why were these developments taken out of future connections honestly, because.

I

When we were reevaluating the freedom area, these we have no plans in the past and so far moving.

I

To the future, to extend lines to about 1200 homes that we did identify that were on a half acre, less.

I

In the heart of the freedom area, so since there were no plans to extend any services whatsoever.

I

um Into those communities- and we are not aware of any um issues from the health departments.

I

Who we get our information from about failing septic systems? The decision was to move them.

I

From priority existing today to a longer range category, so for future connection.

A

Any other comments, and just to clarify that was done and approved in the formerly adopted tranial.

I

Update, so nothing that's happening with this plan is changing that everything is staying. The same.

A

Thank you for that clarification.

A

So we have before us.

L

I I'm going to stay on this topic for one. Second, I know you've met with you and staff have met with.

L

The fdca down there- and um you know there are some people down there who are really involved.

L

With this issue- and I know you know that and um they're not simply um people who are, I think, are.

L

Prone to be chicken little, you know the sky's falling they're good at what they do and they.

L

Specialize in this business- and so you know when we have people who are civil engineers and army.

L

Corps of engineers- and you know environmental engineers saying wait a minute- this is happening.

L

In the area- and we sit up here and and hear county staff say well this- this isn't a health issue.

L

To me, okay, so let's assume that it's not a health issue. I I think we can talk about.

L

There have been instances where there has been a health issue. I think I think what we have here is.

L

A triennial update that we just keep punting this ball down the road and sooner or later,.

L

You know they're going to be a little. I don't think it's going to be 1200 homes that have to.

L

Be connected in a in a 24-month period, but I think we're going what we're going to see.

L

Is a problem here: that's not geometric, where we have one or two homes that need to be connected.

L

It's not going to be arithmetic where there's two here: four: there are five there. It's going.

L

To be a geometric problem, where all of a sudden it's this mushroom, and so um I'd like first.

L

To get in front of that problem and not behind it and so I'll just say you know again, I think.

L

This is a problem that the community has voiced their concerns over. We did a survey and people.

L

Expressed, I think we were all surprised that 70 of the people said yeah I'd sign up for that.

L

um And so uh you know, I would encourage us to to kind of at some point we're going to need to fund.

L

A plan without funding is hope, and that's not a good thing at some point. We're going to need.

L

To kind of reassess, I think and say at some point, we do need to be extending sewer to some of these.

L

Older homes, because they're on smaller lots, these people are also on groundwater and it's just not a.

L

Healthy situation, giving the density that we're pushing into that into the freedom district and.

L

So that's my fault on this is that you know we're probably ought to be talking more along.

L

The lines of okay, you know there were 1200 tones that were taken out of the priority funding area.

L

You know what we did by doing that they weren't checking out of the priority funding area they're.

I

Taken out of the priority sewer, that's it! Thank you, they're they're! Thank you. Thank you. That's.

L

Great they're picking another priority sewer and what we did by doing that is we basically.

L

Moved moved capacity from our right pocket to our left pocket and, in my view, and I'm not so.

L

Sure that we shouldn't be looking at as time goes on again, probably somebody else will be.

L

Sitting up here than us right, but sooner or later, yeah yeah, that's at some point.

L

um We're going to need to we're going to need to address this, and um I I don't think we can just.

L

You know pun it well, I I do think um that there is probably a need for the future to probably have.

A

Some more discussion on that um they are so I I, as I said, I get it. um It's not a happy thing when.

A

You're septic is not working correctly and you're faced with a change, but aren't there some um so.

I

If I can clarify with that, so just a couple points, so we are two professionals and we have engineers.

I

As well looking at this, we also work very closely with our health department. We do not take issues.

I

Like that lightly, if there's an issue that there's a systematic failure, that needs to be brought to.

I

Our attention, so if there are communities they need to work through the health department and.

I

Work through the county public works. That being said, this plan does not change or the path forward.

I

um We're not going to be putting recommendations for that. What we are working on those we recognize.

I

This we understand it, we have already started mapping outlines that would go to these properties.

I

And we're going to be working with public works for cost estimates and reassessing the communities.

I

We can do an amendment to this plan, we do it twice a year automatically and so that's something we.

I

Need to take a step back and evaluate, but in the meantime this still is an area for development.

I

We still have this underutilized infrastructure, so that is the game plan so far moving forward.

I

Ultimately, it will be a cip budget request for the county commissioners to have to pay for the center.

I

Lines to go down and then each individual property owner would have to pay from their home to the.

I

Main line and pay the area connection charges to the county, so it's a very, very expensive endeavor.

I

For property owner and for the county, yes, we know that there's grants available, but we can't grant.

I

Fund 1200 plus homes all at one time, so it has to be done in a very thoughtful concise approach and.

I

That's what we're planning on doing yeah. Thank you with all that in mind. We have a test that.

A

Have to do so, there is a recommendation up there. If anyone is so inclined to. I could uh I'm closest.

B

I have my glasses on so I'll recommend a motion that the carroll county, planning and.

B

Zoning commission hereby certifies that the 2023 triennial update to the carroll county.

B

Water and sewer master plan, as it pertains to the county, is consistent with the 2014.

B

Carroll county master plan, 2019 amendment and the 2018 freedom community, comprehensive plan.

B

One second: hey um any further discussion: okay hearing on all in favor, I.

A

Thought any opposed. Okay, you have your motion. Excuse me, mr oster, do you vote? I did not. Okay.

I

So, are you abstaining, yeah I'll abstain on this? I think. Thank you. I appreciate you asking.

I

There's three in favor in the motion cares with one abstention all right. Thank you very much.

A

All right one to our last, but certainly not at least um yeah andrew gray,.

A

The transportation master plan chapter eight emerging trends. Thank you, madam chair.

I

Now drew it's lunch time, [laughter].

M

M

AB

K

Thank you all. This is chapter eight of the transportation master plan, emerging trends, moving.

K

Through the presentation, the carroll county master plan, the 2014 master plan, as amended in 2019.

K

Mentions alternative transportation to improve air quality, which is supported via electric.

K

Vehicle and autonomous vehicle transportation technologies before I started, I just wanted to.

K

To just pull this out of the current currently adopted master plan um and also oops sorry.

K

So for starting with electric vehicles, the most extensive trend in the transportation world today.

K

Is the transition from vehicles powered by the internal combustion engine to vehicles powered.

K

By electrical motors for the following reasons, one of the reasons is sustainability. Our world is.

K

Becoming more sustainably conscientious, according to the us epa, transportation accounted for the.

K

Largest portion of uh u.s greenhouse gas emissions in 2020., and only about 12 to 30 percent of energy.

K

Generated from internal combustion, engines are utilized to power the vehicle as compared to more.

K

Than 77 percent, which is generated from electrical vehicles, also federal and state incentives, 2021.

K

And 2022 federal legislation allocated up to 9.2 billion dollars in ev incentives, transitioning.

K

From the internal combustion engine to electrical vehicles requires adapting our lifestyles and the.

K

Way we plan the county range anxiety is a concern concern stemming from fewer charging stations in.

K

The county, as compared to gas stations. Currently there are 19 ev charging stations in the county.

K

For a geographical comparison in the north carroll area of hampstead of manchester, there are seven.

K

Gas stations as compared to three ev charging stations, one of those ev charging stations is.

K

Located on town of hampstead property and the other is located on county property. With this.

K

Being said, the county must ensure that both private and public sectors provide an adequate.

K

Supply of ev charging station infrastructure for our residents and visitors alike,.

K

Just a a side note with maryland state law, it should be noted that in this past.

K

Legislative session in 2023, the maryland general assembly voted to require all new.

K

Single-Family dwellings and townhomes to be ev equipped. Additionally, governor moore announced.

K

A plan ending the sale of internal combustion engine vehicles by 2035 in the state of maryland.

K

What does ev infrastructure look like ev charging infrastructure that we must adequately plan for.

K

Can be divided into three different levels: level: one uses standard, 120, volt power outlet and.

K

Usually takes up to 12 hours to fully charge an electrical vehicle. This is consistent with home.

K

Charging without special equipment goes right into the wall outlet level two is home charging with.

K

Special equipment that typically charges an ev and up to about eight hours and then level three uses.

K

A 400 and 80 volt power outlet that full can fully charge an electric vehicle in about 30 minutes.

K

Special considerations for electrical vehicles include include equity concerns which providing.

K

Accessible public charging stations for all carroll county citizens who do not have.

K

Private off street parking, some citizens cannot charge their electrical vehicles.

K

In their driveways overnight, this segues into preventing charging deserts or areas that are.

K

Often defined as beyond a 10-minute walk from a charging station, then economic considerations, ev.

K

Charging infrastructure conveniently located adjacent to retail and businesses should be.

K

Explored so customers can charge our electric vehicle while they shop at local businesses.

K

Industrial developments will inevitably need to charge their electric vehicles.

K

um Which would they would have to sorry they would need to be retrofitted and planned for level three.

K

Charging infrastructure that can fully charge the large electrical vehicle or construction.

K

Equipment fast for industrial use, the county may wish to assess whether design guidelines.

K

Should be implemented for ev charging stations, so developers in the public alike can have clear.

K

And accessible standards when considering infrastructure, installation quality of life.

K

Will also will only be sustained by planning and adapting to new forms of transportation technology.

K

Some of the benefits of autonomous vehicles include improved safety, supporting aging in.

K

Place reducing transportation costs only if those electric vehicles are.

K

Shared reduce congestion and reduced right-of-way dedicated to transportation.

K

Some of the challenges are incorporating avs into a society that is currently dominated by human.

K

Drivers and skeptics opportunities are clear and consistent education from all levels of government.

K

What type of level? What what are the different levels of vehicle autonomy.

K

So level one is some of us have this one, our car already, for instance, driver assistance.

K

Adaptive cruise control- and it goes level one two three and four and the final down down the.

K

Chain to level five is full autonomation, which is no steering wheel in the vehicle.

K

So just wanted to point out with positive aspects: environment, equity and economy.

K

Some call it the triple bottom line or the three e's of sustainability for the environment, narrower.

K

Right-Of-Way widths, leading to an increased areas devoted to green infrastructure and also.

K

A safer environment as well for equity, increased traffic safety for all narrow, right-of-way widths.

K

As mentioned under, environment will lead to the enhancement of bicycle and pedestrian facilities.

K

Opportunities to revitalize urban centers and more public gathering places for the public.

K

And also increased mobility for our special populations and, lastly, for the economy to enhance.

K

The efficiency and effectiveness of travel lanes such as platooning, and also increasing trucking.

K

Trucking fuel economy by some some estimates have up to 10 percent with platooning technology.

K

So for uncertainties include fiscal impacts on government revenues such as.

K

Reduced traffic violations from human drivers who, who don't follow all the traffic safety.

K

Laws all the time and shared use avs pose reduction on registration and parking fees.

K

Also, there are human driver safety around autonomous vehicles during the time that.

K

um Technology would be integrating from human to avs and acceleration of sprawl.

K

And increased vehicle miles traveled so to help local governments assimilate to this.

K

New form of techno transportation technology and assisting quelling any uncertainties. The.

K

Baltimore metropolitan council has created a connected and autonomous vehicles working group.

K

County planning, department staff are members of the working group and provide professional.

K

Planning insight on how cavs will affect the county. The cav work group has outlined.

K

10 topics where actions should be taken preparing for cav impacts, which include travel and mobility.

K

Infrastructure planning and land use, accessibility and equity and the rest that appear on the slide.

K

For shared use, autonomous vehicles, researchers have predicted that there are three revolutions.

K

In urban transportation, which will be the automation, electrification and sharing of.

K

Transportation of the transportation system, therefore, special attention should focus on.

K

Rethinking parking requirements since not as many vehicles will be privately owned.

K

And will not require as much available parking infrastructure. Thus parking ordinances should be.

K

Reviewed to make sure the right amount of parking that is demanded will be equitably supplied.

K

And locate it shared use, autonomous vehicles will require loading locations both on and off the.

K

Public street, which should be properly delineated, increased amounts of data collected and the use.

K

Of autonomous vehicles, any autonomous vehicles will need to be linked to the grid and may thus.

K

Require communications investments all throughout the county, a major concern with local governments.

K

Is what will happen to current funding sources if and when share avs are implemented, which will.

K

Be further reduction in vehicle registration sales, taxes, parking revenue and traffic, fines.

K

And just some other transportation considerations, delivery, robots, fueled by the rise of e-commerce.

K

And the ever-increasing demand for expedited shipment of goods.

K

Any type of regulations would have to be discussed in a joint meeting with the county's.

K

Eight municipalities, since municipal boundary lines, are not uniform across urban areas. In the.

K

County also unmanned aerial vehicles that are sometimes called drones and are being explored.

K

In the transport of lightweight packages, medical supplies, food and other goods, potential benefits.

K

Of uav transportation include reductions in traffic congestion, environmental pollution.

K

Delivery times and transportation costs moving forward, we must prioritize safety, security, privacy.

K

Noise and coordination with different agencies related to unmanned area, unmanned aerial vehicles.

K

And just to handle on advanced air mobility or the use of automated transportation technology to.

K

Transport people and cargo in a lower altitudes in places not traditionally served by aviation.

K

Which some sources have said is likely to be commercially viable transportation option, but.

K

That is still, in my opinion, a ways away. So there are other transportation considerations on the.

K

Slide for, for instance, ev charging, roads, e-bikes cargo bikes make micro mobility and mobility as.

K

A service, and then just in conclusion, these all are in the in the plan or the sorry. The.

K

Chapter that was sent goal, one providing accessible and equitable location for ev.

K

Charging infrastructure infrastructure throughout the county goal to evaluate or sorry educate the.

K

Public about ev and av and other new forms of transportation technology goal three collect.

K

Feedback on how to best incorporate new technology on carroll, county's roadways and finally, gulf war.

K

Coordinate with federal state, regional and local agencies to implement ev and av technology. Thank.

K

You, madam chair, that is all I have and if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them.

A

Thank you. I don't think I do I'm not sure I'll be around when all that's implemented.

A

By 2035, I'm not going anywhere, I feel like the jetsons yeah. We know that this is you know future.

I

um Anyways but we would be rumors not to include you know some of the future trends that are coming.

I

Down the pike, some may happen sooner or way sooner than others. We already know that, because we have.

I

Westminster is working on um their project for magic. uh The mid-atlantic gigabit initiative to.

I

Look at um cads, yes um and the state's already in laws for platooning. Thank you for platooning of.

I

um Vehicles as well, so you know again, we would be remiss not to include it but thought it was.

I

Important to you know, bring it to your attention that we're going to be putting something in here. We know it's, not all for carroll county and a little far away is off, but.

A

Yeah very interesting one thing.

A

Ev charging stations- I know um down in annapolis, where our realtor headquarters.

A

Are we have some stations there and unless you put a limit on them and.

A

Start to charge after so many hours, they'll sit there all day on them, hogging them up.

A

You know free eighth grade, except for when others.

A

Also need to use it right and having time considerations, so everyone can equitably.

K

um Use those, but it's wonderful, wonderful point, madam chair.

L

At some point we probably ought to be, including in the permitting process and on these schematics.

L

For newly approved buildings spaces, for we ought to at least be considering that right, I mean, is.

L

This something that we're: when do we, when do we mandate this linda, I mean because 2035 is.

L

It's it's out there, but not really yeah. I mean, I think those are all good questions.

I

I don't have the answer to that, but I think it's something we need to be considering moving forward.

B

Yeah good feeling farm may need some charging stations in their space yeah. Just an example on.

H

That yeah yeah absolutely obviously really one of the biggest challenges being. We are.

H

Where we are is infrastructure for electric grid right, so I know people on the eastern shore that.

H

Complain because a lot of people can't put solar on their houses because there's not enough grid to.

H

Take all that electric in in certain areas and stuff like that, so it becomes. You got to store.

L

It you, you got to have the battery capacity of the story. You're right and everybody drives during the.

H

Day, not at night right and then cars sit at night. So that's when you want to charge it and there's.

H

No sun yeah yeah, I'm with you not enough batteries. Well I mean these the solar. It will come.

B

Conversations we've had uh kind of connects with this. You know the two megawatt yields.

B

Or whatever and the storage- and maybe there's some linkage there with ev, uh you know charging.

B

Stations and things like that, there's a whole whole thing. It's all megatrends all over again.

A

Okay, um any other comments. Okay, I don't believe there's any more public, but any public comment.

L

I I would say it and I've taken it more than my bandwidth today and I apologize linda.

L

Price, if I said anything that makes you think I don't value your opinion and expertise, please.

L

Don't take it that way, you're singing in the key of c and I've got other people singing.

L

In the key of the f in my ear, I don't have perfect pitch. I've got a relative pitch and.

L

Then getting a headache over this, I need somebody to agree on this thing, because.

L

um And not everybody's going to agree all the time, but um I thank you for listening and appreciate it.

L

I just need I I need. um I need help there, because I'm not getting the same answers from people that.

L

I trust you included. Well, it does sound like the county is working and I will say, as they.

A

Work on like this sewer issues, it's not out in front of us all the time we may not see it.

A

But it's behind the scenes work that eventually we will see. So we do have to have trust in that.

A

They are the professionals doing their job yeah and you know the whole water and sewer.

B

Conversation and the public comment from the engineers I'm sitting here thinking. Well, that's.

B

Kind of above our pay grade, if you will, you know it's really at the planning department level.

B

And the health department level to um you know, recommend those things because there's huge budget.

B

Impact there's huge uh taxation impact health issues, health issue impact and that's really.

B

Not our role, our role, I think, in those regards, are a little bit more reactionary. Instead of.

B

You know proactive, you know if that makes sense, so I get it it's an issue. I remember we owned a.

B

House in ellicott city 100 years ago, and had to connect to um the public water, and it was.

B

Five grand- and that was like 30 years ago- it's expensive, so double triple yeah yeah. So we develop.

A

I don't need to cut you off. No, that's, okay, it's a big deal and it's uh there's funding. There's.

B

There's feelings: there's there's a lot there. Yeah I mean and even to you know, get into what you.

G

Know, linda said just about having 1200 homes the money I mean what I do on a daily basis. You know.

G

You'll see people try to develop properties and I'm in fire protection and then.

G

They have no idea when it's like we're going to use our existing and no you're not, and then they.

G

Find out that the amount of money to have a new line ran to a property and the tap fees are points.

G

And times hundreds of thousands of dollars for all that work so yeah for the county to have to.

G

Find a way to pay 1200 homes I mean that's not even including all the infrastructure to get the.

G

Lines to the point that they can be connected right right, it's well! I I do think the county.

A

Will ultimately, at some point in time, devise something that will provide the access to it, but.

A

um Like redoing your septic, um the hookups will still remain the cost of the homeowner and the.

I

Quarterly charges as well right right. Yes, so my considerations, I'm happy to keep my subject well,.

B

That, commissioner, gordon figure all that stuff. Okay, I have to talk to my colleagues. Okay, um any.

A

Other comments, um I will entertain a motion to adjourn. I will make a motion to adjourn my second.

A

All right, I assume we're all in favor next meeting wednesday june 7th 6 pm before you railroaded, that.