Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 20 Jun 2023

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission June 20, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

B

Good morning I will call the planning and zoning commission meeting to order.

B

Today is june 20th and I'd like to welcome everyone today.

B

Madam clerk, can we please start by establishing a quorum good morning, ms kirkner.

C

Here, mr kane, here, mr smith, here mr robertson here, mr soyson here, commissioner gordon.

C

Secretary hein here, madam chair, please let the record reflect that six members are.

C

Present and we do have a quorum. Thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

D

For which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty,.

E

B

Mr secretary, are there any changes to the agenda that sent to us? No, there are not.

B

Do I hear emotion for approval of the agenda make a motion that we approve.

F

Today's agenda I'll second, okay, all in favor, aye, okay, thank you. The agenda is approved.

B

With that, we will item five review and approval of minutes from june sec, 7th and may 16th. Thank.

B

You seventh and may 16th a move. We approved the minutes for both meetings may 16th and june 7th.

G

A second okay there's the motion and a second all in favor signify by saying I please.

B

Okay, the agenda is approved with that we will move to item number five.

H

Sorry number six: the commission member reports.

B

Since the last meeting I approved three final.

B

Plans, fx 17001 the fields that pheasant run a seven lot major.

B

M200054 huber property, a two lap minor and.

B

S21027 1332 londontown boulevard.

B

That is my report. Are there any other commission members that would like to make a report? No.

B

Okay: um next, we will move into item seven administrative report, mr hein, yes, good morning.

I

Everybody good morning so as a quick introduction, this is my first planning and zoning commission as.

I

The secretary and for those of you who don't know me, I am the director of the department of land.

I

And resource management for the county and I'm currently the acting director of the department.

I

Of planning, so I look forward to working with all of you for the foreseeable future. So as far.

I

As administrative items to to mention our next meeting will be july 18th, there will not be an.

I

Early meeting because of the fourth of july holiday so uh and at that meeting, we plan on.

I

Introducing several topics for consideration of code amendments: they include planned commercial.

I

Centers, the adult use of cannabis, restaurants and the ag districts, which includes a discussion on.

I

Farm alcohol producers and then bulk requirements in the commercial zone so we'll be introducing.

I

Those to you all and then following your lead as far as further discussions work sessions.

I

Etc, to discuss those topics regarding any planning updates. The board of county commissioners have.

I

Expressed some interest in looking at non-agricultural uses in the agricultural.

I

Zone, and so we are, as staff are working with the commissioners to answer the questions and so on.

I

If there are any changes that they are looking to make, we'll of course, then be bringing those.

I

To you, but we are currently working with the board on on those those questions. uh That is all I have.

I

As far as updates regarding extensions, mr david b craft will be presenting information on that.

J

Good morning, good morning, david b craft with the bureau of development review, I.

J

Bring to you only one extension that has been granted since the last meeting that.

J

Is the stillwater minor subdivision file number.

J

M-07-013, this is the 13th extension. It is a one lot some division and is within.

J

Commissioner district five, that's all I have 13th, thank you and then regarding.

I

Board of zoning appeals cases, miss mary lane will be presenting that information morning.

K

Right before I give you the two that were heard in may, I want to introduce to you randolph mitchell,.

K

Who has recently joined our staff you? He may look familiar to you because he's been our intern for.

K

A few years, but we were lucky enough to get him here full time and he will be covering these in.

K

The future, so um the make him say anything he's a recent graduate of mcdaniel college with a.

K

um A degree in political science and environmental science well welcome. Welcome.

K

um There were two bza cases in the month of may case, 6450, which was a is at 175 cleese mill, road.

K

The board voted to approve the applicant's request for a conditional use for an outdoor recreational.

K

Area with an accessory caretaker's dwelling and an accessory nursery school and other necessary.

K

Structures you had found this consistent um case 6387 at 2331, hampstead, mexico, road. The board voted.

K

To approve the applicant's request for conditional use for a contractor's equipment, storage yard.

K

And multiple variances for area and distances and again you had found that to be consistent as well.

I

And that concludes my administrative report. Thank you. Okay. Now.

B

I don't ate the board of education facilities master plan, mr kane.

L

Good morning, good morning, so I I am- I presented at the last meeting the june 7th meeting so today I.

L

I didn't want to go through it again, um but I'm here to happy to answer any questions that you.

L

Have and then I believe, there's a letter that's been drafted that needs needs to be approved.

L

um That becomes a part of the plan when we submit to the maryland department of planning one of the.

L

Requirements is that the county planning office finds that our facility master plan is consistent.

L

With the county's master plan that also submitted to the maryland department of planning, so.

B

Yes, I do have this letter, so any questions from um just one and uh we last meeting we.

F

Had some discussion about freedom elementary and the small property and the three temporary.

F

Classrooms and building three more and that whole discussion- and I was thinking- is there.

F

Any way to add a second story to the school, so the anything's possible with time and money.

L

But the the original structure wouldn't have been constructed in a way to support a second story and.

L

The mechanical system, uh the air conditioning, consists of rooftop units, so that would have.

L

To be you know it didn't, it would end up being more costly, but uh any anything yeah anything is.

L

Possible, if you're willing to spend the money, but it really wasn't looked at as part of the.

L

Study that was done because we were just looking at adding. um We asked the architect to look at.

L

uh Originally, it was a four can four classroom edition and an eight classroom edition. It turned.

L

Into five and nine because of pre-k expansion with the blueprint but at I should have, I should.

L

Have mentioned that the board of education did approve the facility master plan at their last.

L

Meeting, which was just last week, they only meet once once a month, so the june meeting is when.

L

They approve it and, as I mentioned last time, they did instruct us to include that five classroom.

L

Edition at freedom elementary, which would relieve the inadequacy uh on you, know the capacity on.

L

Paper, it essentially will replace the portable classrooms with permanent classrooms, um but.

L

But yeah we we really weren't looking to add any more than that because of the small site. You know.

L

We had the architect look at it, but I think the board agreed that building nine classrooms and.

L

Adding that many possibility for more kids on that campus would be difficult to manage. So thank you.

B

Noticed this wasn't in your report, but I recently noticed in the paper there was a.

B

Conversation about additional classrooms for other schools that will be for the pre-k and.

B

So is that just an internal thing that they'll be doing so so right now there were there. We.

L

Are starting design in july on four editions at four kindergarten editions and we're going.

L

To include pre-k as part of that at cranberry station friendship valley sandy mount elementary.

L

Tawny town elementary, those are four schools that didn't receive the full day: kindergarten editions.

L

Back 10 years ago, so we finally got funding to move ahead with those four. So the plan doesn't.

L

It included those last year and we, finally, we did get funding from the county commissioners.

L

To start design, so those those four editions are moving forward. uh The freedom and sykesville.

L

Middle edition that was just added into the plan we'll be asking for design money next.

L

Fiscal year from the county, so fy25, so if we get that funding, we would start next summer designing.

L

Those so that's kind of where everything isn't scheduled in the plan. Okay, any other questions.

G

So, looking for a motion, all right, I am a move. We approve. The letter is submitted without alteration.

M

Second, okay: we have a motion and a second all in favor aye.

B

Okay, william, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So you are approved and I will sign with not my green pen.

B

B

Next, um there is a concept site plan, that is s 2000, 30, eotc, bachmann valley.

B

um Mr b craft, I believe you are presenting.

N

Yes, good morning, um good morning, mr fisher, so I'm charles o fisher jr and I represent the developer.

N

And uh I'm accompanied by many people on behalf of.

N

The developers, I would ask the getty sam to come up with me.

N

Good morning you identify yourself, um my name is I'm the business resident agent for the church.

O

We have members from the church as well. Thank you for having us and at the appropriate time.

N

Would you introduce who those members are? Do you want to know now or when we address you.

B

um We may as well know now. Okay, sure, um charles you know, is our representative, our attorney. We.

O

Have uh testify maria, uh the chief engineer? We have our architect, dr isaias. We have uh cassie.

O

Smith is more our engineer, chief engineer as well. We also brought our chief priest.

O

From the church, the head of the church, we also brought mary gita dawit, also from a.

O

Member of the church, we have birhani as well he's the secretary from the board.

O

Of the church as well, thank you for having us thank you.

O

J

Okay, good morning, again, david b craft, with the bureau of development review.

J

As already mentioned, the first project on this long agenda is.

J

For the eotc bachmann valley, property file, number s-20-0030.

J

So for those who don't know, the eotc is ethiopian orthodox tujito church, but it's.

J

For filing purposes, it's just better to to have that acronym. So this site development.

J

Plan is essentially serving two purposes. It is expanding. The current religious establishment.

J

That's on site, but it's also bringing the property into compliance as well. So it's.

J

Kind of a dual purpose- site development plan. It is before the planning zoning commission as a concept.

J

Plan right now and I'll get more into that as to whether the property or project currently.

J

Stands in relation to the site development review process for those who are unfamiliar, the property.

J

Is on bachmann valley road? This is maryland. State 496, I believe it is up here- is the hanover pike.

J

uh This is route 30.. The site is outlined here and then this area down here where there is no.

J

Color, that is the municipal uh manchester, so this is the manchester line right here.

J

So the property itself is roughly 25 and a half acres and again this outline here there.

J

Are currently three or so buildings that are fixed on the property there.

J

Is an archive and prayer slash holy water, immersion building uh that is in this area.

J

There is an assembly hall, which is this area with the the colored roof, and then there is.

J

A residence on site that is used for and by the priest before and after church service.

J

And the site has direct access onto bachmann valley road via uh through this property. Here.

J

There are two other users of this driveway and those two.

J

Users are here and they're, also affiliates of the church as well.

J

um There is an access easement in place for the portion of the driveway that crosses over.

J

The adjoining property- I will also mention that the church owns this property here.

J

uh Let's see there is a stream on the property as well as you can see here uh and there's also.

J

A pond that you can see right here. There are no fema 100 year, floodplain designations on site.

J

So all adjoining properties to the site are zoned agricultural and hosts farmland.

J

Or private residences, there are a few of those properties that are currently within an.

J

Agricultural mouth, easement and all properties are served by private, well and septic systems.

J

So the state in question was submitted to development review on january 1st, back in 2021.

J

After it was determined, the site was operating without an approved site development plan.

J

So the plan that was submitted to the county identifies construction of new buildings as.

J

Well, as retrofitting those that are currently on site, so the new buildings will be a church.

J

An actual church building which is located here and then a holy water, immersion building.

J

Which is located here on some of the existing buildings that will be retrofitted or expanded.

J

Upon is the existing assembly hall will have additions added to it, and that is located here.

J

And then the archive and prayer building, which is located here.

J

So the existing residence, which is here, is not proposing any type of improvements at this time.

J

With the addition of these buildings and the retrofit of the existing buildings, there is.

J

Also going to be concrete pathways that are going to range from five feet to seven feet.

J

That are going to connect those parking areas to those buildings, and that is, and was reviewed by.

J

um The site compliance inspector, so he he reviews four ada compliance access to these sites.

J

So I will mention: religious establishments are currently a principle permitted use within the.

J

Agricultural zoning district, subject to being in compliance with those bulk requirements for.

J

The property, so those requirements are that the property itself has to be at least two acres in.

J

Size, the lot width of the property has to be at least 200 feet wide, and this property complies.

J

With those items and the zoning office has granted approval of this plan, uh after noting those items.

J

That are required, so access to the site will be via the existing access points. uh There will be.

J

Improvements to the access drive, so it will be widened to 22 feet wide and there's also a.

J

Larger sign, that's being proposed um versus the one that's currently there, so the sign.

J

Itself is going to be actually this sign here, so the sign is going to be roughly four feet.

J

By 20 feet and will be essentially a pylon sign that will have a maximum height of 30 feet. Tall.

J

So, based on the projected trip generations, a traffic impact study was required. It's code.

J

Required by carroll county being as how the access to the property is via maryland, 496.

J

That is a state highway administration, road and the state highway administration determined that.

J

There was no traffic impact study required with this project in lieu of that a waiver.

J

Request was put into the department of public works in which they requested the department.

J

Of public works to waive the requirement of a traffic effect study and with the state.

J

Highway administration not requiring one that waiver was approved so with that uh engineering.

J

Review and state highway administration have approved the concept plan. I believe.

J

There are additional details that are going to be required with a final review of this site plan.

J

So, as far as parking on the property code states that parking requirements for a.

J

Religious establishment are one for every four persons based on the maximum capacity of the.

J

Sanctuary the parking tab within the plan set identifies at a maximum capacity, is 500 patrons.

J

And thus would require 125 parking spaces. There are 126 parking spaces proposed on-site with 10.

J

Of those being handicap accessible spaces again, there are concrete pathways that are.

J

Going to connect these parking areas to these proposed buildings and again site.

J

Compliance has granted concept approval of the plan after reviewing for ada compliance.

J

So, along with those normal church operations that are on site, there are two to three special events.

J

That happen annually on the property, and these can yield thousands of participants on site to.

J

Help mitigate traffic with those events on the carroll county sheriff's office is generally.

J

Higher to help maneuver people in and out of the property off of bachman valley, road.

J

So the development is proposed to be served by parliament well and septic. There are systems.

J

Already in place, they're proposing the additional septic areas which is shown up here near the.

J

Church and these will work in conjunction with the existing septic- that's currently on site.

J

The property itself is located within the no plan water service area and the no plant sewer service.

J

Area per the carroll county, water and sewer master plan. So with that the the project is being.

J

Reviewed by the carroll county health department, for water and or well and septic operations and.

J

There are additional items that are needed with the review of the final site development plan.

J

So the building materials and colors that are being proposed vary between buildings, so the.

J

Materials comprise of metal, eifs and siding the colors range from brown, white, beige and gold and.

J

There are architectural elevations provided within the plant set on sheets 33 through 43.

J

So there is a five foot high retaining wall proposed near the multi-purpose.

J

Hall here- and that is located right here-.

J

So details, including the height materials and color of the retaining wall, will be provided.

J

With a final site development plan, so forest conservation for the site is to be addressed.

J

By an easement over the wooded area surrounding the stream on this area, here and variance was.

J

Granted to allow for the removal of specimen trees on the property landscaping is proposed.

J

Throughout the property parking area, water resources will require an easement surrounding.

J

The stream similar to that forced conservation, easement floodplain management, has granted concept.

J

Approval of the plan with an easement being required and the same vicinity as the other two.

J

Storm water management will be provided through the construction of multiple microbiore retention.

J

Facilities throughout the site, they have granted constant approval of the plan.

J

So the project was subject to citizen involvement. After february 22nd 2021 virtual meeting of the.

J

Technical review committee after the meeting an email was received from an adjoining property.

J

Owner which outlined concerns for safety, along with questions regarding to the proposed.

J

Development, a phone call was also received after that meeting back in 2021 from another adjoiner.

J

Property who did not pose opposition but had concerns of traffic more recently, the constant.

J

Plan was subject to review by the planning zoning commission on december 13th of last year.

J

During this meeting, there were questions regarding the use of the house, parking, noise lighting and.

J

The sign, however, as there were no representatives for the church present at that meeting, a lot of.

J

Those questions went unanswered, which is why we're back here today, as it was requested by the.

J

Commission to come back for a follow-up meeting to kind of answer, those unanswered questions and.

J

And give more insight as to the operations on the property. So again, this is not necessarily a final.

J

Plan review by the planning zoning commission, but more or less a follow-up to the concept review.

J

So after that meeting there were various phone calls and emails that were received.

J

Regarding concerns of noise, traffic, water and sewer usage, site access and the use of.

J

The site those that were received written were included within your planning, packets.

J

So, on october, 11 2022 the design and architectural review committee, which is.

J

An advisory group met to review the project, comments and suggestions included. uh It was.

J

Noted that the new buildings and the retrofit of the existing buildings will provide a an.

J

Ornate architecture and it appears to upgrade the looks of the buildings that are currently on site.

J

And then the other comment and concern was regarding the roadside sign, which was noted.

J

As being very large, I will note when the plan went before the drac assigned proposed was six.

J

Foot by 32 feet and having a maximum height of 30 feet, it was reduced after that comment.

J

To four foot by 20 foot, which again having the same height as being a maximum of 30 feet,.

J

So with that, there are various picture slides here that I will show just to give an idea as.

J

To how the property looks so this is the access point on to bachman valley road. This is standing.

J

In the drive all looking back at the road, these two pictures here are looking left and right.

J

And then this picture here is standing across the road looking into the site.

J

And this sign right here is currently the sign for the property.

J

These are back on the property. This is standing near the gravel parking.

J

Area looking back the access drive, this is looking at the parking area.

J

And these two down here are looking at where the proposed parking area is to be located.

J

This is the existing assembly hall. This is one of the existing structures on site.

J

And these two are looking at where the proposed buildings are to be located.

J

Again, more pictures of a structure on site: these two down here are within the existing gravel.

J

Parking area you can vaguely see some structures of the adjoining properties through the trees here.

J

And finally again, these are just more shots of where the proposed parking.

J

And improvements are to be located so with that I'd be happy to answer any.

J

Questions you have as well as those that are here representing the church as well.

B

Thank you, um mr fisher. Do you have any comments? uh Yes, I I'd like to um add a little context to.

N

um A couple of things number one: we had a meeting in december and I was the only person.

N

Here on behalf of the uh of the developer- and I I remember that quite clearly, uh some of you.

N

Probably do also- and I later found out that was a a result of a misunderstanding and a.

N

Miscommunication uh that wasn't intentional on anybody's part. It was unfortunate and- and we.

N

Didn't get much done on that day, but that's what happened. It was a a misunderstanding.

N

um And and the representatives of the church did not believe that they were.

N

Required or expected to be here, the other thing that I wanted to point out was that.

N

There were some comments about light and noise and traffic associated with some.

N

Larger events, which took place a couple of times a year and that they had been.

N

They have been approved with temporary zoning permits and they've come off without uh incident.

N

And uh I wanted, I myself couldn't figure out why it was that these events were taking place, and I.

N

Have discovered that the the church, the orthodox ethiopian church, has certain feast days, it's a.

N

Christian church and the people who belong to that church in this eastern united states area.

N

Are aware that certain churches, within their organization, are these sites to celebrate certain.

N

Feast days and it turns out that this church has been designated by the hierarchy of the ethiopian.

N

Orthodox church to be the site of celebrations of number one, the feast day of the patron saint.

N

Of the church, which takes place around september and number two, the feast that we call ascension.

N

uh 40 days after easter or pentecost, which is shortly after that which takes place.

N

Around early june- and these are the um the points around which these events happen,.

N

And it's it, it appears that they will happen and people will come whether it's advertised.

N

Or announced or not, and we recently had a an event uh june, the third I believe it was.

N

Correct, yes, that there have been no advertising, no uh nothing whatsoever, because there was some.

N

Confusion about whether or not the temporary zoning permit would be issued, it was issued and.

N

People showed up, just as they did uh before without the church doing anything about it.

N

So this is, this is the context of the uh larger events uh which which they have, and uh I just.

N

Wanted you to understand how how that works most of the time, I think uh the church on weekends has.

N

um Regular services and I'm not sure how many people show up but.

N

It's nothing like the temporary zoning permits, so I wanted you to understand that and I have.

N

People here who can answer questions if they're brought up.

B

Okay, um any with the engineer um there, there will be a time for a public comment.

B

So we'll we'll definitely let you have your time. I want to address.

N

The items that came in for you jessica can, I say something yeah.

P

Let them ask import so I'll. Also mention too, I don't believe. I mentioned this in my presentation.

J

But since the december 13th meeting as I outlined there were concerns raised by the planning zoning.

J

Commission, although not present at the meeting, uh the representatives of the church did watch.

J

That video and were provided the minutes from that meeting, which resulted in the written explanation.

J

That was provided within your planning zoning commission, packets, which kind of gave more insight.

J

Into some of those concerns such as traffic, noise and whatnot, so I just want to verify.

J

That everybody had received that prior to this meeting. Thank you. um I'm sure we have questions.

B

Here I I do have one all the multiple pages that we've received- save final site plan, but we are.

B

I want to clarify this is concept correct right. This is before the planning zone commission as a.

J

Constant plan, but that is separate essentially from where it's, how it's being reviewed so.

J

um Correct so with this there's no action required to approve or disapprove the plan.

J

Although, as which any site development plan- and there is the option to delegate final approval,.

J

To the chair, but just know that this is being reviewed currently as a content plan, all right.

B

I I think my concerns based on what we've read in the emails and the conversations we've had in the.

G

Past you know boil down to two primary things um and that one is the the notion of quiet enjoyment.

G

um You, as owners of this property, you have the right to enjoy this property. Your neighbors do too.

G

And what we're receiving in terms of emails and and the noise? And I don't.

G

Mean that, as a pun, the noise around this have been pretty substantial. We've received.

G

I haven't counted them up, but two or three emails a day for the last.

G

Two two or three weeks concerning noise and hours of operation and so um again.

G

I have absolutely zero desire to limit the use of a christian organization and the their uh the.

G

Way they worship- I I have no desire to to step in that. At the same time, I I do have concerns, because.

G

Of of the use- and you know the fact that we've nestled this in an area- that's primarily agrarian.

G

And people have been there for a long time and we just want to make sure that that we're doing.

G

Right by them too, because they have rights as well, and so I would like to understand- and I hope this.

G

Will help you put your comments into context? I would like to understand. I get that we've.

G

Got two: maybe three: you know special events that happen annually. I you know, I don't have a problem.

G

With that, because that happens at most churches with christmas and easter and and other events.

G

I do want to understand um you know how long they last and and the issue around noise, and if these.

G

Improvements that we're making um is there going to be additional insulation. Are we going to limit.

G

You know in gym, I don't know how we do this right. How do you limit someone's.

G

uh You know don't turn it up to 11 so to speak. um um I I I don't know how we do that, because.

G

Again, I want you to worship in the in the manner in which people have gathered have come together.

G

The two lesser items that that I would mention is, I don't see any pla any place for bus parking and.

G

We've we've heard that their buses coming, um which is great for the congregation but.

G

I didn't see any bus parking on the site plan and then the second thing I'll say is.

G

um Concerning the signage, you know, this is a road that is, um uh you know where it is.

G

um A a 20-foot sign, if you count the tiles above your head. Those are two foot.

G

Tiles 10, 10, 10 tiles, that's a big sign um and the amount of words it's your sign. You put on it. What.

G

You want sometimes less is more and if people are looking for something specific, you know I.

G

I would think if just you know, ethiopian or orthodox ethiopian church ethiopian orthodox.

G

uh Church would be less less, maybe more, but that's your it's your sign. You do what you want.

G

um Those are my main things and and so from a context endpoint. I would like to hear more about.

G

um What y'all are doing to remedy remedying those concerns? Initially, I might say that.

N

I heard these uh concerns at the meeting in december and uh the submission that mr.

N

Bricraft identified that came from the church shortly after that did address all of these.

N

um And I I believe it's in your pack notwithstanding, that uh I think tesfa are.

N

You going to, can you respond to these okay good morning? Thank you for giving us this opportunity.

Q

So here we are talking about two things. One is the way the church is functioning in existing.

Q

Condition and one is about our proposed project, so the engineering team here is.

Q

Basically, to defend our project and to address any concerns anyone may have regarding the noise.

Q

Concern in existing condition when people come to celebrate the existing assembly assembly hall is.

Q

Not convenient to accommodate all those people inside the building, so we conduct our programs.

Q

Outside and I think that's what created the noise concert, we will do all we can to address.

Q

That concern, but in the proposed project case, is going to be a state-of-the-art building with.

Q

Acoustics and other noise control mechanisms and our programs are going to be held in the building.

Q

Only and noise will not be a concern in proposed condition uh regarding the hours of operation. We.

Q

Are suggesting and and as we have shown on the not on the general, not on the pla, the cover sheet, it's.

Q

Going to operate between 7 am and 4 pm. That's what we suggested uh regarding the best parking.

Q

The buses are going to and again I'm talking in proposed condition in the ultimate condition. The.

Q

Buses are just going to provide a drop off and pickup service. Yes, in existing condition.

Q

The buses were staying on site from beginning to end of those events, but our ultimate goal is the.

Q

Buses will come drop off the people and leave. We are contracting or the people who organize this.

Q

Bus contracting are just signing a deal with the bus companies and it's up to the bus companies.

Q

To figure out where they have to park their buses after they drop off our people and then when they.

Q

Come back to pick them up, but we are also doing our due diligence to find a bus, parking location.

Q

In the area to help those bus companies to address this concept- and this is going to be very helpful.

Q

If we say okay, let's not use buses, then everybody coming to this celebration is going going to drive.

Q

And that means more car on the highway more cars on the premise and I don't think that's that's a.

Q

Better situation, so we will work with the county to address this concern more, but I don't think.

Q

We have to provide specific bus parking in the premise if needed, maybe we can dedicate a number.

Q

Of car parking places for bus parking on the event day, we can exclude those locations and if that's.

Q

Also acceptable to the county, we can do that as you can see the roads that are going around.

Q

Especially the last microbiotination stormwater facility, it's a wide approximately like 14 feet,.

Q

Wide lane, which can accommodates three four buses. We can just exclude that area. In the past, the.

Q

Buses can stay there too again if it's acceptable by the county so but providing exclusive bus.

Q

Parking is not really the best option. This project has advanced it a lot. The store motor management.

Q

Requirements have been fully addressed. The groundwater recharge requirements have been fully.

Q

Addressed actually, we have provided almost 10 percent more recharge than the existing condition.

Q

So adding a bus parking in addition to this pavement is not environmentally friendly, either.

Q

So this is what I would like to say about the bus parking regarding the sign. We try our best.

Q

To follow the county court, so every design element that you see in the proposed project is following.

Q

The code so we're again willing to work with the county. If we have to reduce the site, we don't the.

Q

Size, we don't have any problem to do that. We just need some coordination to make with the county and.

Q

We will go with what's acceptable regarding the height the widths and everything again. I have.

Q

Seen two kind of conflicting ideas from the public, something the sign is too big. It's like a highway.

Q

Billboard and others say hey, maybe a bigger side is going to address the concerns for people who.

Q

Have a hard time to figure out where the project is the property is so, let's balance between.

Q

The two we appreciate your guidance on this the county and we will definitely address that cancer.

Q

Thank you so much. Okay! um I for one think that 30 feet high is too high um our highway signs that we.

B

Typically, approve aren't nearly that high they're closer to 20. um and in today's stuff there is a.

B

Project that is asking for a seven foot sock. So there's you know it's it's how the sign draws.

B

People in I understand that, but it definitely is also needs to be aesthetic to the neighborhood.

B

So that's my thoughts on it. I can add to that. I remember when you had the the photo where.

E

The sign was going to be, it actually looks like you would be better off if the sign was lower.

Q

We're willing to accept whichever is acceptable for the county. That's not really a deal. Breaker.

Q

It's the sign, a lighted sign. No, it's not okay, but again, if needed, we can make it yeah. I agree. I'm.

F

Hearing other comments from the members, I think the signage needs to be smaller, much smaller.

F

Okay, you know, remember the the environment, the neighborhood, the there's no other organization.

F

Jazz is talking about 20-foot signs along route 140 and, if you've, driven along with 140.

F

um It's a little bit busier than bachmann valley road, so I think the sign can be much much smaller.

E

There's also good sight distance both ways right right, yeah, we'll reduce the the size.

Q

Maybe, as small as it can be, we will have time for.

B

B

um The control room can, I would assume they would have control over that.

R

The sound in the back, I'm just not sure um I will say when you're speaking, speak.

B

Closer to the microphone so you're not up here- comes our sound guy.

B

B

Wow he's working on that. I I had a few other questions.

B

So the existing buildings- I notice, um the multi-purpose hall, I think- is being expanded.

B

And then the barn, what is there anything going to happen? There still.

P

It's going to be archive place awkward, it's going to be an archive place.

N

An archon yeah, the barn, yeah, okay, the answer that I'm hearing is the barn, the existing barn.

N

Is going to be an archive? I believe that, right now it does have some um holy water baptismal function.

N

But that is not going to continue yeah! That's not going to continue. Currently it's providing.

Q

Like a low level uh baptism service, when people want to get christening, but it's going to be an.

Q

Archived place in the ultimate condition we have no intention of using that, except for that purpose,.

B

Okay and the baptismal building that is 200, am I correct on that. Is that what is six.

B

6 000 square feet. I think I don't remember the area of of my head but yeah, so I think it was.

B

Designed for it's, it is yeah. Our architect is confirming that for 200 people. So I guess.

B

My question is: the church has 500, the baptismal has a 200 number? Are they simultaneous or would.

B

They be separate, so you would go from the church over to the baptismal. They wouldn't.

B

Be running so it wouldn't be 700 people on a sunday. No, it's not simultaneous baptism is not.

Q

Something that occurs every week, I wouldn't call it like annual event, but it's based on.

Q

A request from people and they say hey, I want my child to get baptized and then they show up and.

Q

We provide that service, it's not as every sunday's uh program or every sunday event. It's not going to.

Q

Add up the total attendance here on sunday to 700, it won't and the baptism can occur any day of the.

Q

Week it can also occur on saturday, so no, it's not going to add up to 700.. Okay and we've heard many.

B

Property owners say that there is quite a few times that they hear chanting going.

B

On way earlier than seven o'clock, is that something that can be move to accommodate.

B

The neighborhood, so it's not disrupting their peaceful enjoyment. Absolutely, as I said, we were.

Q

Writing the note on our general not treat saying the service is from 7am to 4 pm for.

Q

Our proposed project- we don't always come here every day or every weekend when I say we, the.

Q

Engineers who are working on this project, so if there is something additional information.

Q

um The church might give regarding the existing condition services before 7 a.m.

Q

If there is any service, are you saying that in the past there has been some.

N

Activity before seven o'clock, but the plan is that there would be limited between to.

N

Seven to four in the future is that what what you're saying yeah? It's, that those are the our.

Q

Response that we suggested for the proposed project, seven to four. Yes, all right, okay,.

D

I'm serious, I said I asked a couple questions um you might have to bring me up to speed, but I have.

D

Some questions about this um number one. You talked about thousands of people, possibly showing up.

D

Now is this a one-day affair or does it span over one day.

D

Well, that's that's the first question. The second one is 125 or the parking spaces that you have.

D

um How are you going to comply? I don't think that everybody's going to come by bus.

D

So where is your overflow parking going to be? That's the second question. The third question.

D

Is is there ample septic and water to provide for that many people, I'm a little concerned about how.

D

You're going to handle that, if it's more than a one-day affair, this could get quite complicated.

D

So you may have answered those questions in the past if they, if you have excuse me this.

D

Is my first meeting and but these questions uh and I'm very cognizant that is out in the ag zone so.

D

um I am hoping that the water issues are confined to that property.

D

And especially with the amount of people you're talking about so that they're, my.

D

Questions I again if you've answered them before, you may have to answer them again: okay,.

P

So this event is almost like a half day event: it's not even a full day event. Let.

Q

Alone, two three days: even so, people come in the morning and program gets over around noon or 1pm.

Q

That's one thing: yeah it's been reported and there is an impression that thousands of people.

Q

Are coming I mean in reality the number of people coming is between like 800 900, the event that we.

Q

Just have on june 3rd- and we discussed about this when we met before the event and we verified that.

Q

Maybe that was the case when this service started here way in the past before covet, perhaps but now.

Q

Especially after kovid, it's it's not really more than 800 900 people that are showing for these.

Q

Special events, so I I want to stress on that too, regarding parking people when they come.

Q

For such special events, they basically carpool and some of them they use buses and again, I'm.

Q

Talking for the ultimate condition, I think we are going to be able to accommodate if we assume say.

Q

A thousand people are coming and buses are going to provide service, at least for 20.

Q

Percent of the attendees, the remaining 80 percent with carpooling and family members.

Q

Coming together, the the proposed parking is going to be sufficient, so I I don't know if satisfies.

Q

You, but I think we are okay with the parking requirements regarding the septic and water.

Q

There was an issue raised also in the previous zoning commission meeting, uh saying hey this.

Q

Church is using groundwater, I mean well, water and depletion of groundwater was considered as.

Q

An issue this church every time we have event, we provide bottled water, nobody uses the well water.

Q

Anybody can show up anytime and witness this. We never use groundwater in those events and.

Q

Even in normal circumstances, we use bottled water, so I don't think that's also a cancer. Thank you.

B

Richard michael, so yeah a few things um staying with the parking, so the maximum capacity for the use.

F

Of the site is 500., and you mentioned in your recent statement. There eight to nine hundred.

F

um And you mentioned earlier about the the parking, so the code is there's a certain amount.

F

Of spaces per 500 occupancy and that's where the number comes from for parking spaces. So if you.

F

Allow buses to park on the property that reduces the number of spaces per.

F

Occupancy for square footage, which would mean you'd, have to reduce the size of your building.

F

The other piece is, you mentioned it's up to the bus service to figure out where to park.

F

Thank you, okay. I get that, but it's also the church's responsibility to say no bus parking.

F

So I'd like to see that part of the plan so either way you have to address.

F

Parking parking spaces or building size related to parking spaces. Okay, okay,.

P

So if you've done it to the last microbiotication and.

P

I'm just going to ask them if they allow us to put the prices right there between okay yeah, between.

Q

The two microbiota things: okay, so yeah, even if it's not marked, is it okay to the county or to the.

Q

Commission that we exclusively block that area for the bus parking on those twice air events.

B

So is that storm water basins there is that what so between the two is.

J

The roadway sorry yeah, I was going to say the exact same thing, so this.

J

Is a micro buyer retention facility for stormwater management and this area right.

J

Here is as well, and this is uh paving- and this is a one-way access drive in between.

F

Thank you, so your your suggestion suggestion is that buses can park.

F

In that area, on those uh you know, over top of the retention is that yes, yes, that's not.

F

Paved right that would be, it is I'm talking about the ultimate condition. I'm not talking.

Q

About the existing conditions about the finished product, right, yeah, so realistically how many buses.

B

Could you get in there three yeah three yeah, there's no more than that yeah and just just.

O

um For everyone to remind again, we, we are bringing the buses for this special events that happens.

O

Two or three times a year, we're not talking about every weekend so and we're, including.

O

We are considering carpooling as well for this special event, so just to just to remind everyone.

O

It's it's only for those two or three special events: uh the pentecostal and the uh the uh in.

O

Observance of the uh the history. Yes, so um I know it's a it's a concern, but I just want to remind.

O

Everyone that it's this is happening like two or three times a year right. Okay, thank you. I think.

G

My my concern on this is that, by saying, if we were to say something along the lines of you know, you.

G

Can't park buses on the site or, if you do park buses. This is where they're going to park. What we.

G

Don't want is to have some unintended consequence where we've got buses parked out on bachmann.

G

Valley, road or waiting to get in and out off of balcony, because there's so much car traffic. So you.

G

Know you've built this people are going to come. It's a great thing right. You want people to come.

G

um When they come, we need to accommodate them, and so you know whether the drive is widened. You know.

G

Even further so that the buses can pull aside and and and maybe there's a gravel area or something.

G

Where you can put the buses on the on that long drive in because you own that property too. That's.

G

You know adjacent to this, um or even where that tree line is, I mean again not not telling you.

G

What to do with your site plan, but I I do think that having a little bit of planning for these.

G

Large festival events doing a little bit of planning, for that would go a long way. The.

G

Other thing I'll say is I I don't think the county wants to get into a situation where we're telling.

G

You when you can and can't worship, but I will say this- I I think we ought to really consider putting.

G

Some sort of conditional outdoor use and limit the hours of operations outside, because you know if.

G

You're, if you're doing it you're doing it inside and the noise is kept inside and then you know.

G

Once it gets to nine o'clock, you know from nine to four you can do whatever you want to, but but from.

G

Seven to nine, whatever noise is being created, it ought to be inside. I don't know if we can do that.

G

Jim can can we do that, that's more of a function of the bza. uh The planning commission doesn't have.

R

The authority to write those types of conditions or that the time conditions of as you're, proposing.

R

um Like nine, just throwing this out there as a hypothetical out like outdoor activities,.

R

Till 7 pm, 9 p.m and then inside. For the rest, the planning commission does not have the authority.

R

Okay to attach that type, but with these specific sort of technical aspects of the site plan, where.

R

Things are located right, parking spaces, entrances light. That's your purview! Okay! I think what we're.

G

Going to hear from the community is a desire to have something like that and so how we.

G

Marry the conversations we have here today to the conversation, because you know they are those.

G

Conversations at the bza are de novo. I mean they. They start from scratch, they're not going to have.

G

Access to what we've deliberated over today and in that respect, they're at a little bit.

G

Of a I don't know, is that not right? Well, right I mean this would not go in front of bza unless it.

R

Was rejected by this commission, that would be the avenue for which it would go in front of the.

R

The board of zoning appeals yeah, but then this is the issue, though I mean because we're not. If we're.

G

Not able to put some sort of condition on hours of operation, then then, what we're saying is our only.

G

Avenue to to get that placed on this is to deny it and then push it to the bza, which is kind of silly.

G

You know so I hear what you're saying, because because it's a chicken and egg thing um or I'm.

G

I'm taking up too much bandwidth, I need to sell it good point. I think, michael you had some more.

B

I did the um so uh last but not least, the noise, that's that's. The uh we've received many many.

F

Complaints and feedback from the community about the noise seems like that's the most.

F

Prevalent issue, um so uh it sounds like with the new structures the new.

F

Buildings and containing the congregation to the inside will help reduce the noise.

F

Tell me about the landscaping around the property and what, if anything, has been done to help reduce.

F

The noise impact to the neighborhood in the existing condition or in proposed condition.

Q

In the new condition, the new condition uh we have hired a company to work on the landscaping design.

Q

To address all the requirements of the county- and that has been done and that has been approved.

F

Landscaping: that's noise; reducing no, not specifically, noise, reducing because the noise.

Q

Reduction portion of our project is going to be handled by providing a building. That's going to.

Q

Be sound proof and our programs are specifically going to be in the building and not outside at all.

F

The the community also expressed some concerns about some trespassing. Will there be signage.

F

uh And I hate to say fencing or anything like that to restrict folks from whoops wandering.

F

Into the community properties, or anything like that, we have heard that complaint from the past.

Q

Video recording of the zoning commission meeting we never received these kinds of complaints. We.

Q

Are really glad to know where it happened and to take any corrective measures needed.

B

I do have bathrooms. I looked at the plans. I think I saw bathrooms in a multi-purpose hall.

B

But I didn't notice them elsewhere and I know some of the complaints we have received in the.

B

Past were bathrooms not being there and people actually using the yard for bathrooms. So tell me.

B

What exactly is it in the church, as well as the holy baptism, one in the multi-family? Do they all.

B

Have adequate this project is only at a concept design and the architectural design has not been.

Q

Finalized yet we put the footprint and all that stuff to just figure out how much impervious.

Q

Area, including the rooftop of those proposed buildings, is going to be to order a storm water.

Q

Management and drainage concerns, but once that concept is approved or found acceptable, then we.

Q

Are going to detail on the internal structural and architectural design of the buildings, it's.

Q

Nowhere near even 50 percent, but we will again meet the county code requirements to provide.

Q

Every requirement for any kind of structure we are going to have on our promise premise. Sorry.

D

Okay, I have one more question: go ahead, there's a pre-existing dwelling on the property.

D

uh Is that occupied by any of your church members or your church hierarchy and do you have any plans.

D

Of putting any additional residences on that property, no, we don't and those buildings are.

Q

Or that building is being used as a rest place for priests that come to provide the service.

Q

So, for example, the priests comes a saturday evening for the sunday morning service. They.

Q

Just stay overnight there, it's not a typical residential building. It's not.

B

Stephen, um you know I live in this area, so I definitely share the concerns with the uh with.

M

The buses, because, like I said I know you said it will be on them to find their own parking, but I.

M

Couldn't give you the slightest idea of where they're going to be able to.

M

Find parking at anywhere relatively close to there, so that's definitely something.

M

um I think we you know, need to work on so, but I mean everybody else has kind of addressed.

M

A lot of my issues as well, um so I did see the proposed architecture. I noticed um that it it.

B

Looks very nice: what struck me was the gold dome top to the building. I couldn't quite tell.

B

um Where it was, and of course in my mind, all I'm seeing is the building when you go to m495, that's.

B

The mormon tabernacle that is gold, just like blasting right at you and um just a little.

B

Concerned that maybe it'll magnify for the neighborhood, so is there an alternate or.

B

um Something that you know you are in a bowl, so people are going to see it.

Q

Yeah we're trying to balance between what's best for the community around what's best for.

Q

Us what's also acceptable to the county and, at the same time, how to fulfill the requirements.

Q

Of a church building based on the holy bible, so we are trying to balance between the two.

Q

We will definitely continue to work with everybody involved and reach out acceptable.

Q

Solution, but our architect is dr isaiaski is trying to finalize that and we'll work with.

Q

Through deaths with anybody in the county to address that concern, but I hear you.

B

Okay, anything, I was just going to say thanks for coming and and answering all our questions.

F

um And, like you said, it sounds like there's a long way to go here.

F

And you know, don't take us wrong we're trying to find the balance between your rights and the.

F

The property owner rights around you coexistence, however, you want to describe it and it sounds like.

F

You're you're willing to work towards that goal. So we appreciate that that's absolutely correct and I.

Q

Think what brought many of the inconveniences is, the events that we were having in the past.

Q

In such a not perfect condition- and I know the inconveniences- those situations create.

Q

But let's see the big picture, let's see the future, it's really going to be an addition.

Q

To the county, too, the people who come here uh to worship and all that stuff they are going to use.

Q

All the businesses in the area, people even may start, like, I wouldn't say, move but staying here.

Q

Around the hotels and all that stuff for a day or two in those kinds of events and.

Q

In the ultimate condition is going to be a win-win situation for both of us. This.

Q

Is a peaceful community whose intention is purely to exercise our face and worship? God.

Q

So I hope the county, the zoning commission and everybody else is going to also help us achieve.

Q

Our dreams and I hope, will be a good addition to the community, but one thing I want to steal like.

Q

Finalize not finalize, but reach at the consensus is about the bus parking. I think the area between.

Q

The two microbiotensions is even wider than the incoming drive lanes. It's big once the two or.

Q

Three buses are parked between the two microbiod retentions. We can't even block that area. So no.

Q

Other incident happens and no people pass that we can put that yellow tape or anything and as.

Q

I said it's a maximum of three buses coming there. uh I don't know if I can say this, but.

Q

If we just square that out now, so we advance to the next level that would be best. Thank you.

B

I think I think how many buses would normally come. I guess that's a question. We didn't two to.

Q

Three two is the minimum. Three is the maximum okay. So there's not like 10 buses. Oh no, no.

B

I know okay, um anything else, mr fisher, any. I just want to add something that you probably all know.

N

But I think it does relate to the interaction with the community, and that is that the events.

N

That have been taken place uh since we do not have uh approval for our buildings. We cannot.

N

Use any of the buildings for those events, so they're required by our temporary zoning permit.

N

To have everything outside um and of course, once uh this uh plan is approved and the structures.

N

Are built there will be very little outside, so I think that probably has contributed to.

N

The complaints about lights and noise- okay, all right anything additional from you, gentlemen,.

N

Don't think so: okay, all right, we are going to move to public comment.

B

um We will have a three minute time limit and I ask that you give your name and your address.

S

Chris baker, 3820 white oak court, as far as the sign it could be 80 foot they still drive by.

S

It but anybody in here in miller church did you the whole county hears it when they're.

S

Having their little services within a mile of the neighborhood, everybody hears their little.

S

Services going on now you're lying at your butt. You know damn well once you get what you want.

S

You're going to start all this stuff again and as far as etiquette with the flag take our flag down.

S

Because you're flying it, it's all ripped up and you don't fly it under lights at night time. Take.

S

It down flag your flight, whatever the way you want to fly, don't fly or flag like that. Thank you.

B

Okay, um yes, sir.

S

Have you read the comments that were mailed into you as of yet yes, yes,.

B

I yes, the comments that you made were sent to all of us.

S

The complaints or the positivity or negativity.

S

Come on master, if we put the time to mail them to you, we should be able to hear some of them.

B

I I think um I will speak to that and you, gentlemen, can chime in if you wish the.

B

Majority that we've heard have been noise related disrespect for the pr your personal properties.

B

And the traffic conditions um and and the noise um I think, that's pretty much the gist of of.

B

What we've had- and we have had multiple um letters this time as well as in the past and.

B

um I will say it's not always just when a hearing is coming up. We will hear things in between too.

B

um Anything additional well, some of the letters we're talking about ada compliance, uh construction.

F

On existing buildings, without permits, uh which david talked about in his uh opening remarks and.

F

Going through the concept plan, that's one of the reasons we're here, because there was some uh some.

F

Building and construction going on without uh going through proper channels and that's.

F

We are that's where we are now that we're they're in proper channels now so, but I.

F

Think janice summed it up predominant complaint was noise. It did any no okay, all right. um Yes,.

T

My name is patsy dahlberg. I have 72 acres on bachmann valley. Road 1801 is where it starts.

T

And it goes all the way back. My family's owned 100 acres on batman valley, road for a hundred years.

T

So I have a vested interest in this. The problem is that bachmann valley is, in fact a valley and.

T

It echoes so, if you even say my parents would sit on botman valley road and I could hear what.

T

They were saying at 1755 solomon lane because it echoes it goes down into the valley and it.

T

Comes back up on the other side of the valley, so you can't whisper without having that echo back.

T

To you and that's what is happening at this church, so you have to take into consideration.

T

That everything that happens at this church is echoing back and back and back, and I didn't know.

T

If you knew this, but there was a child that fell into a pond last weekend and he drowned and the.

T

Paramedics from manchester wrist hesitated him, but we don't know if he lived, but that was two.

T

Weeks ago you didn't say one word about that pond or whether they should put a fence around it or.

T

Whether they should put a retaining wall around it or whether they should do something to prevent.

T

Children from falling into a pond people, don't watch their kids in today's world. They just let.

T

Them wander around until all of a sudden, somebody sees that a kid is in a pond and he's drowning.

T

And like they might have active yes, I knew that because again, a helicopter coming down.

T

To a to a place, everybody in the valley knows that a helicopter just landed at the church.

T

There's so many things about this, I followed three buses in in 2021 and two more were behind.

T

Me so that two buses is not a truthful statement. There were five just three in front of me. Two.

T

Behind me, I called zoning and I was told, oh, we don't know what's going on there, but as soon as.

T

Something happens, we'll put up signs. I didn't know anything about any of this until you put.

T

The blue sign up now, obviously, you've been having meeting after meeting and I didn't know anything.

T

About it, so I'm kind of unhappy with all of you and zoning because you didn't put up any signs.

T

You've been having meetings and not informing the public, that's not right, and you should be.

T

Ashamed of yourselves, because we should have been informed about all of this. The first sign.

T

That ever went up. I go up and down buckner valley. Road. Every day sign was the blue sign.

T

We should have known.

B

Mr b craft or mr hein, would you like to speak to that.

J

Yeah so I'll speak to it so david b craft for your development review again, um I'm assuming.

J

You want me to speak in reference to the public meetings, so I I will mention when this project.

J

First came in, it was right on the edge of covid, so there was a lot of things that were still being.

J

Figured out as to how these meetings were being had, as mentioned in the report, that first public.

J

Meeting was a virtual meeting going through a few of those meetings. It was deemed that that wasn't.

J

An ideal situation, but unfortunately that was the best we could do at the time. Having had meetings.

J

Since covid being in person, there's been a lot of concerns as far as who gets notified, especially.

J

For projects such as this, so I will note that we have also expanded how far out we create postcards.

J

To send people previously, it was only for those adjoining property owners and we've increased.

J

That to be anyone within a quarter mile radius of the property and gets a postcard notification.

J

um As noted, we are also putting this uh or we're putting a sign on the property.

J

To help mitigate that issue for those that are outside of that quarter, mile radius.

J

And uh as with any project, these are also included on the carroll county government website as well.

J

I granted not many people check the website every single month to see what's being discussed, um but.

J

Definitely when, when things are occurring, um you would hope that when that person calls into the.

J

County that it's relayed, that it can be followed online as well, so it sounds like that didn't occur.

J

At the time, so I I can't speak to that per se, but I will note that we are looking to and we've.

J

Already ramped up how notification occurs for projects within carroll county because it it is.

J

Acknowledged that what was previously done wasn't quite ideal okay and does that apply to technical.

B

Review too, that's correct so uh and the same thing with the postcards being sent uh for the the first.

J

Public meeting with the, which is the technical review committee meeting uh and generally those.

J

Postcards were sent only to those properties that are directly abutting whatever subject: property.

J

It was, and we've heard time and time again that there was somebody just on the outskirts of that.

J

That didn't get notification and wanted to provide comments, which is why we've increased it to be a.

J

Quarter mile radius around that property and then with always uh once someone calls in they're more.

J

Than welcome to be included on that mailing list, whenever we have meetings such as this.

J

Those that sign in are included on that mailing list for future meetings. So I feel like with.

J

This one with it starting right on the end of covid, with things more or less coming back to.

J

Normal, I think that was the the crux with this: the notification education for this project here, okay,.

B

Well, um sorry that we had that, but we are on the right track now, so we should be doing good. Yes, sir.

U

My name is wilbur glover, I'm aboutman valley, road, I'm a slow reader. This is a email I send in to you guys.

U

When the church first purchased the land, uh we was invited down for a meeting.

U

Included the dells, rallies and and on the glovers.

U

They told us the intention was to build one building and use the barn and the house.

U

All the work and now and uh they was going to add some mckessebos and first prayer stations.

U

um I filed for the pia information act, so all this is below here is what I got from there. All the.

U

Work below was without a permit, according to the pp pia, when they moved in, they started a demo. The.

U

Lower part of the barn remove all the stalls and anything else in the way there's pictures attached.

U

To your emails, they did this in preparation for an area where they would hold the church sermons. They.

U

Painted the electrical work out of a small water board, concrete built, two changing rooms with tile.

U

Floors and drains that drained outside which ran into the area where the pond is, and there was a.

U

Spring right there so most likely it drained into the spring and went into the pine. The two gazebos.

U

That were built, they were built on a concrete pad and they are not small cassibes they're.

U

Larger ones with four posts and one is used for the serving of the holy holy water and there's a.

U

Whole lot of foot traffic there they did receive a permit to build the uh the new metal building.

U

That's there now it stated on there that there was no plumbing electric um was it? Was it loud.

U

In the building, it also stated that is not to be used for animals living quarters or commercial use.

U

To be used for farm use not to be used for the congregation they are where they were aware.

U

Of this when they built the building, but they built it, knowing that they were going to use it.

U

The way they wanted the building had their final inspection now has, and now it has a new entrance.

U

Smaller than the original new windows, the new new building has been used for.

U

Many large events with lots of people david crowding to this point that it is hazardous.

U

The pia did not show any inspections for electric safety emergency exits or if the carpet was fire.

U

Installing new groundwork for the restrooms.

U

To be installed next to the house to serve the congregation in large parties, evidences of this.

U

Groundwork is still shown in the pictures and when I was on the.

U

Property, I was allowed to walk the property at that time. I asked the priest about it.

U

And there was a could have been a communication gap whatever, but two weeks later I received a.

U

Letter from uh her name's wilba, her name was on the building permit to no longer bring my kids.

U

Down to fish the pond to stay off their property do not take any pictures. Pictures in the direction.

U

In the pictures where the pipe pipe was above the ground for the restroom, according to the.

U

Pia reports- and they did not have any permits for this- the upstairs of the barn, which is not.

U

Ada accessible has been finished. Pictures of this also are attached. Please note that the.

U

Exposed electric wire shown in the picture, the work included framing electric heat sheetrock.

U

That was done all without permits. I'm aware of that, I'm aware of, if anything was made with an.

U

And I'm unaware, if any of this was made with fire return, retirement materials that are marked or.

U

Have marked exit lights, which there is only one exit on the rear of the barn? They start.

U

Building a deck that is 12 feet off the ground. The picture is attached. I followed a report.

U

On this, because the free day is going to start preaching off of it and noises already, a problem.

U

Two days later they started framing walls like they were putting on an addition, not a deck.

U

The county did issue a stop work order, so the county knows about them.

U

Over the past five years, they have been holding large meetings that are approved.

U

By the county, these meetings have an attendance level between five and eight hundred people. They.

U

Start their pa system at 4 30 to 5 a.m. Waking up the whole neighborhood, the sheriff house, sheriff's.

U

Department has been called to all these meetings due to the noise complaint. In conclusion, the.

U

In conclusion, I believe that the fire marshal and the county should.

U

Shut the church down immediately due to safety concerns for the.

U

General public and the congregation congregation doors should be sealed.

U

Worship you, the new large church that they built, has.

U

Become more of an unnecessary convention center.

U

Is not in the in okay? Is it an unnecessary convention center? It is not in the best interest.

U

Of the neighborhood and is not the best use of the land they could. You still use the barn and.

U

The new existing building after gaining approval from the departments of the county, if they want.

U

To build a building like they attempt to if they, if they want to build a building like they are.

U

Attempting to it should be in a township that has water sewer and gas for all their needs.

U

A property that would accommodate their needs.

U

A great property that they that would accommodate their needs is a property next to the trucking.

U

Company in manchester they had have proven time. I'm sorry. They have proven time and time again.

U

That they have no resp, they have proven time and time again they have no respect for the.

U

Neighbors counties are low. They would still like to hold their large meetings. They could.

U

Use the large grass to the park as they do at the carnival grounds and another idea.

U

Would be a rent space from the fire company, which would be a great benefit to the county.

U

I know I was nervous, I hope you got my point. They have no respect for yes or for the the.

U

People around in the neighborhood, like I said they start early, mr fisher said that they don't use any.

U

Of the large building the new large building or the barn upstairs, I think he knows they use the.

U

Lower level for uh for their sermons, but as far as I know, nothing has been inspected. It's more of.

U

A far-hearted and we probably realize okay good. Thank you. Sorry. I was so nervous. Okay, thank you.

B

Yes, ma'am, my name is shirley appleby and I live at 2045, buckman valley, road, I'm a neighbor of.

H

Of mr glover and um it takes more than robes and carrying a cross to be a religious person and a.

H

Good christian, okay, that man, his family founding member of a very well-known church in this.

H

Community he's in a christian church every single sunday, so he's not heathen and I'm not either. Okay,.

H

Been serving the lord, since I was at least 16. born again christian put that in your notes: okay,.

H

Okay, part of being a good christian, is being a good neighbor, and these folks are not good.

H

Neighbors- and they are out there before seven o'clock in the morning, beating drums chanting and.

H

They are not good neighbors, but there's a couple other things they aren't either. They are not an.

H

Estate approved charity in the state of maryland. Yes, I looked them up. I looked them up by their.

H

Tin number: I look them up by their name. They are not a registered charity in the state of maryland.

H

Okay and furthermore, I checked them out on irs and they have only filed one one.

H

Form 990. in all the time that they've been in existence that was in 2017. and I've seen the form.

H

Zeros all the way down the form. Okay, we don't know who these people are. We don't know where.

H

They're getting their money, they don't know, we don't know how they're spending their.

H

Money, we know nothing about them and, yes, I am a licensed professional in the state of maryland.

H

And when we found out that mr fisher was their attorney, I called around to see if there was.

H

Anybody else that could represent us as neighbors and lo and behold, these folks have just about.

H

Touched every single zoning lawyer in this county to do work for them at one time or another, and all.

H

I got was oh, we can't represent you because that's a conflict of interest, gee whiz. What a coincidence.

H

These folks are not good neighbors. Okay. Thank you very much for hearing my comments. Thank you.

B

Yes, sir yeah, my name is mike lang. I live at 2120, ev vale and I come at this from two points of.

V

Expertise: I've been a master plumber and a utility contractor since 1978., so I'm very much in tune. I.

V

Built projects like this, and my first thought is we're mostly that all the houses are on private.

V

Wells or on private septic and we're all in the same aquifer, I didn't. I went through the 43 pages.

V

Of drawings, I went through all the elevation, drawings, etc, etc. I didn't catch. I haven't read.

V

A code book in a while, because I retired from that business 18 years ago, but at any rate I.

V

Still have familiarity, obviously I did it for a living for a long time anyway. I don't know how.

V

Many toilets are going to install what they're going to do so if you have 900 people and your.

V

Flushing toilets and so forth, you're drawing down on everybody's well, okay, which is going to really.

V

Affect property value: now you have 900 people, you have 500 people, let's say you're flushing the tall.

V

Each one's flushes, the toilet once where? How big is that septic tank and that holding tank going.

V

To be to hold that, I saw the drain fields coming off. I said: okay, I'm looking at drain fields, but.

V

Of course, they're on top the ridge, it's all going downhill; okay, that's common sense, yeah.

V

I'm sure there are also also some homes around there that are on um maybe drawing their water.

V

From springs, so you have runoff, you have a lot of that. I didn't see what the driveway was made out.

V

Of I didn't pay that much attention, so I didn't really care now. My second point of expertise is.

V

I got my engineering degree in audio engineering uh about 20 years ago so as we sit here in this.

V

Meeting if your tech turned up the system, we were 50 decibels and I'm giving you the benefit of that.

V

Because I measured at z weighting, which is very nil, uh I sit on my back porch at seven o'clock.

V

6 30 7 o'clock again my house has adjaced their property and I'm probably 600 feet away and I'm.

V

Reading at about- and this is z weighted- not a weighted, not b weighted and I'm reading about.

V

Maybe 60 decibels; okay, it's 7 a.m. On a sunday morning, a vacuum cleaner is about 55 56. To give.

V

You a reference point of decibels decibel rating, so I've got the noise issue. I got to deal with.

V

um Which is bad enough now, even if they go inside base frequencies, do what they do. I understand.

V

Frequencies, let's have an audio engineering degree, so I know I I know what I'm what I'm talking about.

V

um So I don't know what the county is all about, that I don't know what the county, spec or code.

V

Is on that I I fled baltimore city. I lived at the inner harbor for many many years. I came up here.

V

For peace and quiet- I'm not getting it, but the aquifer thing with the well is the most important.

V

Thing but the other thing is bachman. Diver is a 50 mile, an hour road with tractor trailer traffic.

V

It's a two-lane road tractor trailer traffic coming back and forth from 30 to 97.. You have.

V

The farmers you have people driving that road and I've watched this whole thing. People turning out.

V

You have 126 cars coming out of there and the buses okay, unless they're going to wide and.

V

Bachman valley road- I don't know how they're going to approach this, how it's going to work, the other.

V

Thing really quickly, I realize I'm out of time is that it's right at a curve in bachmann valley, road.

V

It's about a hundred I measure about 105 feet from the sight line of that curve to their driveway 105.

V

Feet so if you've got a tractor trailer ironic curve at 50 miles an hour he's not going to stop.

V

In time, if somebody's leisurely coming out of that driveway and you're saying you got 126 cars, the.

V

Other thing was too I've seen way more than two bosses and by their own admission, you're talking.

V

126 parking spaces with 500 people if they have 900 800 or 900 people, because obviously the church.

V

Is going to grow so how many buses are you going to have to have for that? I've never seen a bus yet.

V

That does a hundred and some people, so it's not three buses. It's going to be eight seven, eight.

V

Six seven eight buses: now, where are they going to park now? You've got you've, got vehicles parked on.

V

The on the road or parked, wherever they're going to park, I had know the only other property in the.

V

Grass, so you've got all that run off an issue. Last but not least, I mean I just I look at the.

V

Whole situation I go, this doesn't belong there and that's the signage issue. I didn't even pay.

V

Attention to signage issue- I really didn't, but I think to myself, I'm looking to homes that are.

V

There, what that value looks like I'm thinking myself, all of a sudden you've got a billboard.

V

Looking at you squaring the face, if I and that couple, whose houses up on the big hill, which I.

V

Don't I would be sick to my stomach just having to get up in the morning. Look I said, it'll never end.

V

And go oh wow! Look at that! Billboard! Isn't that lovely! So there's a whole lot of things wrong here.

V

And again, I know how construction works. I know how buildings like this work. You start out here.

V

You have this, it's this big two, three years from now it grows to this big and where does it end.

V

So that's all I have to say thank you. Thank you. Anybody, yes,.

W

Hi good morning, kristin coy 9611 haven farm road. Thank you for allowing me to speak today.

W

My husband and I spent close to 10 years, searching for the perfect place to call home after living.

W

In a busy and overpopulated suburban community in baltimore county, we sought a different pace.

W

Of life, we painstakingly researched many areas and fell in love with the serenity.

W

And beautiful valley, views of bachmann valley, road in 2020, we purchased land just across the.

W

Street from the eotc on partnership drive, we spent countless hours researching this area.

W

To ensure our investment in our forever home would help us escape the heavy traffic crime.

W

Failing schools, overpopulation and congestion in our current community, we hired land engineers.

W

Worked with the carroll county, health, forestry and agricultural departments and had our well.

W

And perk test reassessed to ensure our future home would be in compliance with the rules and.

W

Regulations consistent with carroll county law and the covenants and restrictions of our community.

W

Through this process, we learned that we could not build certain structures on our property.

W

And learn that permits must be obtained prior to any building. We also learned we would have.

W

Rules and regulations as to what we could and could not do on our property in the community.

W

Additionally, one of our main concerns was that the beautiful valley views might change over time due.

W

To development, however, we found out the land on the other side of the street was protected from.

W

Developers as the landowner spent much time, money and effort putting that land into agricultural.

W

Preservation after much deliberation and research, we bought our land and spent hours enjoying the.

W

Quiet peacefulness of the landscape. We bought our land thinking. The landscape would remain the same.

W

For the duration of our lives, what has failed to be really mentioned today is the sheer size of the.

W

Church being proposed, we could not even begin to imagine that a 70-foot church with golden domes.

W

And cross spiers rising higher into the air and a 30-foot billboard would be constructed. We also.

W

Did not know that the eotc amasses thousands of visitors, traveling long distances in both.

W

Tour buses and cars traveling from washington, dc, silver, spring virginia and other places unknown.

W

In doing research on the eotc, I came upon a video of one parishioner who was taking video of their.

W

Celebrations, this parishioner posted a video of the celebration and that video has now amassed 44.

W

834 views this number is simply staggering. I could not believe this one video had nearly been seen by.

W

45 000 people, other videos that have been posted, have been seen 10 to 20 000 times this community.

W

Was not built to sustain thousands of people even if only twice a year. This community cannot.

W

Accommodate thousands of out-of-town visitors for any such celebrations allowing the eotc to build.

W

Their new church will forever change the community and the structures they would like to build. Will.

W

Forever change the landscape of the serene valley in which it will protrude. Furthermore, construction.

W

Of such a large structure will bring many people from out of town who have little regard for the.

W

Generations of property owners who have fought to ensure this land remains preserved and rural.

W

I certainly understand the allure of this area as we fell in love with the quiet, solitude and peace.

W

It offers, however, had we known that a 70-foot ornate church obstructing out our idyllic valley.

W

Views we would not have purchased this land. On a final note, we are also quite alarmed. We are not.

W

Informed about these meetings as property owners and as these plans directly impact, all residences.

W

Who live and pay taxes on bachmann valley road? We only learned today of today's meeting from a.

W

Small sign placed at the entrance to the church. We had to drive past the sign multiple times to.

W

Read the black lettering on a blue background as property owners, we can't imagine why we were not.

W

Contacted or sent information about this meeting or other meetings that have taken place regarding.

W

The construction of this church, the secrecy and lack of transparency leads us to believe nefarious.

W

Activities are being conducted. We cannot begin to imagine why this project would be approved as.

W

It will forever change the landscaping community which generations of landowners sought to protect.

W

I strongly implore you to oppose the building of this immense structure and provide rules and.

W

Regulations for the eotc and the activities that are being conducted on their land just.

W

As we have rules and regulations on our land, it is in the best interest of property owners.

W

And the carroll county to oppose the concept plans for the eotc. Thank you. Thank you, foreign.

B

Quite far into the morning, um no please come forward, but I would ask that you keep your.

B

Comments to three minutes, my name is john tremoloni. I leave 2047 bachman valley, road.

X

I I can see that this barn, which is part of their complex right now, this young man, described what is.

X

The church that they can do, I thought a church was one building, we're talking about a whole complex.

X

Here I don't quite understand how come we went from request to build by church to a coal complex.

X

Also, they have no respect for the community on their noise. My god can hear me think he.

X

Can hear me whisper, I don't need to have my my prayers broadcast over a loudspeaker for my god.

X

To hear it you're you don't want any insult. The have no respect for the community here, all the.

X

People back here, they have no respect for you, uh the fact that they said that their sewers can be.

X

Handled by bottled water, I like to know how to do that. Well, we use bottled water for us for these.

X

Events, so we don't use the well water for the sewage. I don't quite understand how that works.

X

um How many buses? Well, we got only two buses and we're going to do. Carpooling. Well, isn't.

X

The one out of four of the 500 of the 500- you know, people for the 125 car parking prices.

X

Already isn't that carpooling already, but it can have 10 people in a car coming rather than.

X

Four they're insulting you, you know um the priest. Oh, we only stay over overnight. Sleep.

X

Overnight, well, where are their home residents? If it's not there, why are they living there.

X

Full time and as a residence, but not paying residential taxes. Thank you. Thank you. Any yes,.

Y

1315 balcom valley, road- everything I'm about to say, has been first-hand.

Y

Experience, I am a contractor in the area. I do a lot of excavating and grading work.

Y

There's probably a lot of opportunity in this for my company, which I will refuse as long as.

Y

Other as well as other contractors that I know will refuse to do this work. [Applause].

Y

Secondly, as the gentleman over here mentioned about the tractor trailer traffic, that is me.

Y

I have been there. I have flat spots on my trailer tires because of these tour buses. Two come out at.

Y

A time I've seen eight ten twelve of them lined up on bachman valley, road stopped in the middle.

Y

Of the road they stopped, they don't have no clue where they're going. They don't use, turn signals.

Y

They take their time sweet time, making the turn when you're coming from westminster.

Y

Towards melrose, that is a blind turn at 50 mile an hour. I also do a lot of farming. I.

Y

Lost a black angus pregnant heifer because I had to lock the brakes up on my truck.

Y

I had to put her down okay because she broke both of her front legs when she smacked in the.

Y

Front of my trailer, so these people have no interest in the community. They have no idea.

Y

What actually is going on and everything that they've said here, they've sugarcoated, it very.

Y

Well, as far as I'm concerned, they can take this.

Y

Where they're actually welcome? Because they are not welcome on bakken valley, road foreign.

B

Z

Hi, my name is ken miller. 4318 hanover pike, I'd like to request the zoning board to expand their.

Z

Notifications to a one mile radius from this projected project, partly because I have a cousin.

Z

Lives down tracy mill, road she's, one mile from this church, and she.

Z

Can hear the chanting and all those kind of things at 5, 30 6 o'clock in the morning, so.

Z

I would request that any communication with any board anything like that that.

Z

This project has would be expanded to a one mile radius from the church site. Thank you.

B

Thank anybody else.

AA

Holly davenport 2109 edville road. I want to reiterate one thing: safety issues I happen.

AA

To be taking my son to the school bus one morning at 8 30, he goes to at valley elementary and there.

AA

Was a child wandering from the church they had come across through the creek through the.

AA

Pond or near the pond, I'm assuming and came down one of the little side, roads off of evvale road.

AA

And the child did not communicate, he was probably eight to ten years old. The carroll county.

AA

Sheriff's department was called, I stayed with the child with the sheriff, while another person went.

AA

With that person with or excuse me, the carroll county sheriff went with one of my neighbors to.

AA

The property and we're there for about half hour, 45 minutes, trying to tell somebody who could speak.

AA

English that they had lost a child and after an hour, we finally found the mother to that child.

AA

It was me personally that was standing there, so I know when he said that they've never heard of.

AA

Any kind of safety concerns or any kind of issues. That was an issue and I agree.

AA

With the fact, I've also seen numerous buses way more than two or three we've seen them.

AA

Get stuck trying to get in trying to turn into that dirt. Road we've also the traffic.

AA

I don't know how many times we have had to slam on our brakes. They just pull right out one right.

AA

After the other, they if they miss the entrance, they just stop in reverse and there's a turn.

AA

Right there and unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm teaching my 16 year old son, how to drive.

AA

And it's very scary right there, because we had it every weekend. So thank you. Thank you.

B

Yes, sir 2419 bachman valley, road, I'm a joining property owner uh last year, it's been over a.

AB

Year now, when they was going to have their festival, uh they went to the state and the.

AB

Magically got approval to do site distance in two weeks. I would never be able to get that pulled off.

AB

So they started cutting trees down and there's they had rules to go by which they didn't follow.

AB

And then they started cutting my trees down for site testings. I mean just come in there and start.

AB

Cutting stuff down- that's still not been resolved, yet they don't want to resolve that problem. They.

AB

Trespass they've analyzed my property and they don't want to step up to the plate and.

AB

Take responsibility that they didn't forward the guidelines they were supposed to follow.

AB

And the traffic thing they're all right when they come out the end of the driveway there's.

AB

No, stopping they just pull right out, they could care less who's coming so there's an issue there.

AB

Somebody's going to get hurt and polly hurt bad or killed and it'll probably be one of the neighbors.

AB

Instead of one of theirs, they just don't, they can't drive, I don't know how they get their.

AB

Driver's license, but they wouldn't they didn't take the test. We took to get our driver's license.

AB

So you need you need to really think about this. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir.

B

Yes, can you come to.

U

I would just like to know how many of the congregations have been like a 10 mile radius that use the church.

B

um I don't know we don't have that information. I thought maybe some of.

U

The gentlemen here from the church might mr fisher.

N

I don't know the answer to that. I questioned even its relevance to right what we're doing here today.

U

It's it's! It's! It's a country church, it's a country we're out in the country. It's.

U

Supposed to be a country church, what we're building as a congregation hall. Okay, thank you.

AC

That's also not forget that the residents and new year.

AD

Yes, sir, my name's andy davenport 2109 at vale road, my wife just spoke.

AD

I have a couple concerns. One is traffic and coming around that blind turn, we were test driving a car.

AD

A salesman did not know about the church, and as soon as we came around the turn, I said.

AD

You got to be careful when you come around here, because cars pull out, we ended up slamming on the.

AD

Brakes and going into the other lane to avoid the traffic coming out of the residence or the church.

AD

So traffic is a huge concern with my.

AD

um My end of it I'd now want to talk about the plans that have been proposed.

AD

If we're talking about tour buses coming into the site, what is the path and the drop-off location.

AD

For the people that are coming off of the tour bus, I do not believe that the 126 parking spaces.

AD

Will allow for a tour bus to successfully maneuver inside that space.

AD

So we need to look at that emergency equipment getting into that facility with one of these.

AD

Events with parking, that's all over the grass, it should something happen like it did. A couple weeks.

AD

Ago, with a medevac having to come in and take a four-year-old child that drowned into the pond,.

AD

Out of there do we have ample locations for medics to work for fire department to work in that plan.

AD

24 acres is a lot of land, but not nearly enough for what has been proposed.

B

Thank you. I will say that should in in the process of planning.

B

The department does have different departments that the whole project will go through so fire.

B

Ambulance, all of that is evaluated um as well. As you know, the state roads will possibly look.

B

At it again, so so it's not just one department, we are a commission, but we are not the ones that.

B

Do all of the leg work the county staff does. So um we hear your concerns. So yes, sir, I'm sorry.

B

The health department also is part of the inspection process that it goes through there.

B

So they have to have, um I saw the septic area that's proposed. I assume that there.

B

Will probably be perks that would have to be done to make certain that it. It goes forward.

B

um I thought perhaps that that will also include well so each department, health department.

B

Everybody gets a chance to look at it in speaking about the pond. That you know is a horrific thing.

B

To happen whether it's you know somebody from the church or out in the community, but perhaps.

B

There should be something that would be looked at to mitigate something like that happening.

B

In the future, maybe a fencing there, so all of those concerns would be looked at. um So yes, sir.

AE

My name is john shifflett. I live at 2332, bachman valley, road.

AE

um I'm a little bit nervous, I don't public speaking too much. My wife is.

AE

Probably more nervous than I am because anytime I open my mouth, she gets nervous.

AE

um We can we recently moved here from anne arundel county. Our roots aren't as.

AE

Deep, as everyone else is here in this in the area.

B

See the driveway from our house.

AE

And we moved here for the peace, the quiet and the beauty. This is going to destroy it.

AE

May we were hoping to retire around here. That was one of the reasons we moved.

AE

If the, if the board allows us to go through, is it just going to destroy the neighborhood.

AE

Plain and simple.

AE

The best thing you can do is deny this, because once they get a foothold, it will.

AE

Continue to continue to expand if you have 100 people today, you have 500 people tomorrow. You.

AE

Have a thousand people a year from now it will just continue to expand and it.

AE

Will be back here year after year after year, want to do more and more with that property.

AE

We have restrictions. The young lady said earlier. We have restrictions of what we can do.

AE

It seems like they don't I don't see what the positive is for having them here. Nothing against.

AE

Them my wife, my wife is catholic and it's just I don't see the positives. All I see is the negatives.

AE

As a church organization, are they a tax exempt? Are they supplying any money to the county.

AE

They're using our they're using our resources they're using our boil water.

AE

They're using our roads, but are they giving anything back to the community, probably not.

AE

Should be not should not be allowed to be built. Thank you. Thank you.

E

Okay, all right.

AF

Mike boggs 2330, bachman valley, road.

AF

Kind of confused, they said when they start to build this 6.

AF

000 square feet: church they're, going to start at seven o'clock.

AF

Well, what about last sunday? Anybody here know what time he started. I have a little bit earlier.

AF

Today, can you tell me I heard it can how about mr fisher? Can you tell me what time we started sunday.

AF

Oh okay, okay, how about you, sir? Can you tell me what time you started sunday.

AF

No, you can't either hey sir, how about you over there. Can you tell me anybody anybody for record.

AF

What time you all started sunday, nobody, okay, five o'clock! That's all I got okay! Thank you.

AF

B

Okay, yep, yes, ma'am! Yes,.

AG

And I'll even live with it. Okay, my name is judy gear and I live at 2300, bachmann valley, road and.

AG

The front of my property faces the lane where we're talking about so many traffic issues. I've.

AG

Had people pass the church lane coming from westminster, stop in front of my house, make a.

AG

Three-Point turn with traffic coming and um you know just turn around because they they.

AG

Missed the sign, the traffic is horrendous and, like I say my front, porch faces this.

AG

So I see it all the time we mentioned it in december when we were here for that meeting.

AG

It's it's been mentioned before that there doesn't seem to be respect for our community.

AG

And I'm strongly agree with that with the noise, as we mentioned very early in the morning and I've.

AG

Been on my front porch at eight o'clock at night and I've heard the chanting in my letter I sent to.

AG

You I attached a link so that you could hear what it is and keep in mind it's on speaker. So it does.

AG

Echo through the valley, um a community church, is for the community and, as was mentioned, there.

AG

Doesn't seem to be anybody in the community that attends the church and I'm sure we're welcome, but.

AG

This service, the service, is not something I would be able to understand. A large billboard sign at.

AG

At the end of the road, my daughter lives directly behind me up on the hill and um is appalled that.

AG

That's going to be the view from her porch as well as my porch. It's just not a bachmann valley.

AG

Appreciated structure that will be going up here and the buses.

AG

Yeah they're they're more than two or three um and the traffic with having to slam on breaks.

AG

I've seen many many cars and tractor trailers. The tractor trailers have locked up their brakes.

AG

um With people pulling out very, very slowly um and staying very slow, the whole way down.

AG

To route 30., we've had them turn around in our driveway numerous times. One time.

AG

It had just been blacktopped and we had it marked off and they still came and so.

AG

The lack of respect for the community is a huge concern. Thank you. Thank you. Okay,.

AC

And we told them that that's the community church up there.

AC

We were just checking it out, see what it is.

AC

Without a member okay on that property, okay, thank you all right, um seeing no more people, um the.

B

I wish to speak. I would suggest that um we don't have any action.

B

um Of course, unless you would like to move it to a final nope, not at this time,.

G

All right and I'd like to see it again: yes, okay, all right, so um the decision is that, thank you.

B

For being here today, and thank all of you for your comments, um staff has taken many notes as.

B

We have, and you are okay, to proceed forward with your next steps, um which does not mean.

B

That you have approvals at this time, but moving forward, so we will see you again. Thank you very.

N

Well, thank you. Thank you. Listen madam chair. If I could recommend or if we take a recess.

I

Yes, I was just going to suggest. Thank you, mr hein. um Yes, we will take a 10 minute recess.

B

Back and um thank you for your patience as we move forward here, the next uh before I.

B

Do that I'm happy to say that we do have a full commission once again.

B

um Richard soyson, who has been here before, is back with us as our alternate, so we're glad to.

B

Have you and welcome ralph in person this time? Thank you and two. Oh you just peace, oh peace and.

B

um We will move forward now with the.

B

Item number 10 the goddard park, thank you and my name is amy bro.

AH

Box dash 22-0010 4400 goddard park. This property is located in uh eldersburg on the north side of.

AH

Liberty, road east of monroe avenue- it's highlighted in this uh ortho map here.

AH

The subject property is 4.59, acre parcel. It is zone c2, which is medium commercial, medium.

AH

Intensity, commercial. The site is currently developed on the northern portion with the.

AH

Goddard school, which is a private school and daycare approved and developed in 2007.,.

AH

The current access to the property is from habitat road, which is a county maintained.

AH

Road and goddard park drive a private road. The property and surrounding properties are served by.

AH

Public water and sewer this is inside the priority funding area and inside the designated growth area.

AH

Site plan for a medical building is before you today. No action is required. This concept review.

AH

Originally came to the county in february, and the plan proposes a two-story medical office building.

AH

Measuring 77 300 square feet per floor. This is a principal permitted use in the c2 zoning district.

AH

And 73 parking spaces are required. This plan proposes 79 new spaces, a traffic.

AH

Study was not required for this site, based on the average daily trips generated by this use.

AH

The landscaping proposes an addition of screening along the eastern property line.

AH

Between the site and some residential homes, in addition, trees and shrubs will.

AH

Be planted in the parking areas to meet the requirements of the landscape manual.

AH

The building elevation show a facade of metal panels and masonry products and neutral colors.

AH

This plan has been reviewed by several accounting agencies: storm water management.

AH

Will be addressed with an underground storm water management facility concept, storm water.

AH

Management approval has already been granted. This project is exempt from floodplain management.

AH

The bureau of utilities has confirmed the use of water and sewer services for the site.

AH

Forest conservation was previously addressed with the development of the school on the site.

AH

Additional landscaping is required along goddard park, drive before approval.

AH

And that required landscapes, green that I described along the east.

AH

Property line needs to be revised due to the location of an embankment.

AH

Water resource management is asked for some additional notes on final plans.

AH

State highway grading and the health department have provided concept. Approval of the plan.

AH

Site compliance, engineering and fire protection have asked for additional comments to be addressed.

AH

In the final plan sets, this plan was involved in a technical review committee in march three citizens.

AH

Attended those meetings and asked questions that were answered by the developer about the overall.

AH

Use layout and landscape, we have not received any additional comments or concerns by any neighbors.

AH

The final site plan will be tested for review and adequacy of public facilities.

AH

In accordance with chapter 155 of the public laws and ordinances of carroll, county maryland,.

AH

Again at this time, this is a concept plan review and no action is required of you today.

AH

If you have any questions, I have representatives here from engineer clsi and the developer.

B

Okay, um any richard ralph, no michael, no not really eat. I would ask on the east side of the building.

G

um The side that is contiguous to, I believe, residential properties.

G

What are we doing there? From a uh on the screening standpoint and from a lighting standpoint to make.

G

Sure that those people aren't staring at walmart and wall mounted lighting in their backyard.

AI

Okay, yes, hello, my name is alec yeo and I'm the developer and also aaron from clsi will give you a.

AI

More technical answer, but those were actually the residents that did come and speak to us. We've been.

AI

In touch with them made sure that their concerns were addressed. It's a couple of things. We've done.

AI

They're, probably the most: if anybody's going to be impacted, it's going to be them, and so we've.

AI

Taken a couple of steps: one would be angling, our lights, so that they're just pointing in and making.

AI

Sure that there's nothing that's going to from a light. Trespass concern be extending off the.

AI

Property, they have pretty good screening already on their property from their own residents as well.

AI

As from ours, from from existing the concerns that we had, there were also addressed with things such.

AI

As we've identified that as our staff parking area and the reason for that would be less frequent, car.

AI

Trips, so the cars that would be going in would just be morning and night and therefore less.

AI

Frequents are turning on headlights and and pulling in and things so design. The building.

AI

With that being a staff entrance on that eastern side, so staff could sort of go in that back door.

AI

But all the rest of the traffic you know regular patients would be coming through. On the other side,.

AI

So taking as many steps as we can, we worked a little bit challenged with the slope because.

AI

There's a swale over there, you can't plant in that swale and so aaron and his team have come up with.

AI

Some creative solutions, in accordance with the county, to make sure that we can plant as dense of.

AI

A screen as their as possible, but maintaining the restrictions that the swale has for planting in it.

AI

So there's a couple of different considerations that we've been putting in place.

B

I I have no questions. The only thing that was mentioned uh was the sidewalk um and.

AI

I think we've avoided signage, just because it's we have the building. So I know signage.

AI

Is always a hot topic and so just avoided any any mounted sign at all, and you know taking.

AI

Sort of whatever steps we can to make sure that the project is as easy as possible. So.

B

We thank you for that. A little reprieve, maybe.

B

um Okay, so it is a concept plan. We have nothing before us unless you would like.

B

To delegate approval of the finals I plan to the chair, I'd make that motion. This is.

F

Straightforward so I'll make a motion that we designate or delegate approval of um s22010.

F

4400 goddard park or.

F

um Delegate the approval of the final site plan to the planning commission chair seconded.

B

We have a motion and a second all in favor aye, aye aye, okay, hearing it being unanimous, then you are.

B

Proved to go forward and.

B

Thank you for being here absolutely. Thank you all very much.

R

Any public comment: that's is there any public comment for this? I'm sorry.

B

Yeah, I doubt there is, is there I was so excited me too? Is there any public comment on this project.

B

Okay, hearing none, you are free to go.

B

B

We will move forward with with item 12 the concepts I plan for northrop grumman s 210023.

B

Mr b craft you're up again.

J

Morning again, good morning, david b craft, with the bureau of development review. As stated, the.

J

Next project on the agenda is northrop grumman. The first amended site plan file, number s-21-0023 with.

J

Me are some representatives of the engineer and the developer I'll. Let them introduce themselves.

AJ

My name is larry henos, I'm the facilities manager at northrop grumman in sykesville.

AK

My name is jared barnhart, I'm with morris ritchie associates and we representative.

J

And what this first amended site plan is proposing is kind of a range of things, but, most importantly,.

J

An entrance improvements and parking improvements with some minor building improvements proposed as.

J

Well, so, for those that are unfamiliar, this property is located at 7301 sykesville road.

J

And that is shown as being outlined here, this red outline that you see is the sykesville municipal.

J

Limits so this property is literally right on the outskirts of sykesville, and this is maryland 32.

J

Here, sykesville road- this is buttercup road over here, and this is rain. Cliff road here.

J

So the property itself is roughly 35 acres and, as stated, is right on the outskirts of the municipal.

J

Boundary again, that being this red line shown here and what is on the property is a we'll say, roughly.

J

A 162 000 square foot manufacturing facility, as you see shown here, with some accessory structures.

J

As well so, the use of the property was previously reviewed by the planning zoning commission through.

J

Various site development plans- and I have the numbers noted on here so one being back in 1988.

J

1991 as well as 1998., this property itself lies in the heavy industrial zoning district.

J

And has existing access to buttercup road and to maryland route 32 via this. This road here.

J

And it also has direct access onto buttercup road via this access point here.

J

So the adjoining properties to the north and the south, within the municipal limits of sykesville.

J

Are used residentially, the adjoining property to the west across maryland. 32 is the sykesville.

J

Middle school, the adjoining properties outside the municipal limits to the south and those.

J

To the east are zoned, either agriculture or industrial, and are being used as a hospital.

J

Or are currently undeveloped, all adjoining properties are served by public water and sewer.

J

So, as you can see with the orientation of the site, the existing building is kind of on the.

J

The northeastern northwestern corner of the site with parking areas to the south, as well as some.

J

To the west of the building itself, there is an existing fence that runs on the western property.

J

Boundary along 32 and that extends along the north boundary, as well as the south boundary as well.

J

There are currently 445 parking spaces on site, there's also a stream.

J

That runs pretty much right at the the property boundary line up here.

J

But there are no fema 100 year, floodplain designations on site.

J

So the sites and how it's shown it is really up to the commission here. So I have two variations.

J

I have this one here which is more zoomed in, but it's split between two slides, as you can see, and.

J

Then I have an overall, which is a little bit more difficult to see, but at least shows the whole site.

J

Is there a preference as to what the commission would like to look at, as I run through this report,.

J

I like that one okay, this one see it all right. Yes, me too, this one is the winner and then I I guess.

J

As we determine uh with certain details, we can certainly go back to those more zoomed in areas.

J

So, as mentioned, uh what is being proposed is a redesign of the property entrance from spring.

J

Springfield avenue springfield avenue. Yes, thank you so they're looking to to redesign this site.

J

They're looking to add additional paving to the south of the parking area as well as redesign.

J

The parking area over here there's going to be a loading dock expansion on the north side.

J

Of the site, with a new connection, point to the access drive here and then there's also going to.

J

Be an expansion of the main building entrance down on the western portion of the site here.

J

A concrete pad is also proposed on the north portion of the property, and that is where.

J

Relocated dumpsters are proposed to be located, so the main entrance from springfield avenue is.

J

Looking to shift to the existing gate entrance into the site further into the site to allow a.

J

Median split so that way there is a an accident or a gated access for entry and exit. So currently the.

J

The full gate opens whether you're entering or leaving the site. This will create a separation.

J

Between the two, so the gate entering the site won't have to open if you're leaving the site so.

J

um What's also being proposed is a sign to be located in that median area as you enter the.

J

Site as well as a five foot sidewalk, that's going to parallel the access drive, which will.

J

Provide pedestrian access from springfield avenue to the entrance into the building.

J

Additional paving further proposed parking will tie into the existing paving areas. This expansion.

J

Of parking will increase the parking on site from 445 spaces to roughly 509 parking spaces.

J

There are going to be planters added throughout the site, both proposed and existing parking areas.

J

So, and due to the topography of the land, there's also going to be a retaining wall.

J

On the western portion of the site, that's going to run along the access drive and.

J

Actually, loop down to to run south of a portion of the paving area as well.

J

Details of that are going to be included with the final site development plan.

J

uh As already stated, there is going to be an access drive which runs.

J

From the existing entrance back to this proposed.

J

Expansion so to currently to get back to that area, you have to drive down and around the site to get.

J

Back here to the dumpsters and the loading dock area, this will provide a more direct access, as you.

J

Enter the site and will provide full connectivity of all the existing access drives on the property.

J

So the concept site plan was initially submitted on august 26 2021. The plan was subject to citizen.

J

Involvement at the technical review committee meeting there were no citizens in attendance at.

J

That meeting and no phone calls or letters have been received in reference to what's.

J

Being proposed, this plan is exempt from the code of requirements of floodplain management.

J

Concept approval was granted by the bureau of utilities with existing water and sewer on site.

J

The content plan received concept, approval from water resources and grading review.

J

Forced conservation is to be addressed by way of off-site force, banking, landscaping.

J

Is proposed throughout the site and complies with the landscape manual engineering review.

J

And state highway administration have both approved the plan with existing access.

J

The bureau resource management has granted concept approval of the stormwater management.

J

Plan stormwater management is to be addressed by way of three underground facilities for microbiore.

J

Retention facilities and a submerged gravel wetland and they're kind of scattered throughout.

J

This site- but this is the largest facility here- that's going to be just south of the parking area.

J

In accordance with the site development plan, memorandum from the department of.

J

Planning the proposed land use is consistent with the sykesville 2030 comprehensive plan.

J

Land use designation of general industrial and it's also consistent with the carroll county.

J

Water and sewer master plan, as it relates to the bicycle, pedestrian master plan planning.

J

Staff recommends ada compliance sidewalk along southbound, buttercup road, the entire length of.

J

The site plan planning staff also recommends exploring the option of a walking path around.

J

The proposed parking area and existing building as an employee amenity and finally, the final site.

J

Plan will be tested and reviewed for adequacy of public facilities in accordance with chapter 155.

J

So before we move on, I just want to give show some pictures of the site as it well as it.

J

Existed two years ago, and I don't believe it it's changed much since then, but this is looking at.

J

The existing parking areas here this is looking to the area south of the, where they're going to.

J

Expand with additional paving- and this is north of the building, where the dumpsters currently reside.

J

This is another shot of where the existing loading dock is. This is roughly where the access drive.

J

Will connect just over here is the main entrance access drive, and these two shots here show that.

J

Main entrance access drive, as you can see, it's just there's, no media, no paving or anything such.

J

As that, so if there's any questions, I'd be happy to answer as well as those that are here with me.

B

So, can you show me where the buttercup road on that previous plan.

B

Where the sidewalk that they're, showing so buttercup road is over here- uh and there is.

J

A wooded area that separates the main use of the site and buttercup road due to the bike, ped master.

J

Plan planning staff recommends a sidewalk that runs the full length of buttercup road.

J

It is it's not currently proposed, but that was a recommendation provided by the planning staff.

B

That and the walking path around correct the walking path is in between the two.

E

Where's the walking path it would go into the facility itself.

J

So that's a good question: um there's not a walking path currently provided, or at least there's.

J

Not one that's currently proposed with these improvements, staff planning staff had recommended.

J

A walking path around the proposed parking area, so I imagine it would.

J

Run on the outskirts of the proposed parking area, we did go then down to the sidewalk, see.

E

Where the break-in you mean down to the sidewalk down that would be recommended down in this area,.

J

It it's possible, I don't believe there's I mean just looking at the contours. It may be a little.

J

um Interesting to design, but I guess anything is possible with time and money.

B

But they're just recommending it around the building and the.

B

Parking correct so there it was a two-fold recommendation. They were.

J

Recommending it as an amenity on the site around the parking area and they're making.

J

A separate recommendation for a full-length sidewalk along buttercup road, I'm actually.

E

Because it goes almost there's just one little area before you hit rain cliff and then freedom.

E

Park is right right next to it, so it would be a great way of yeah right so um for those that.

J

May have been on the commission at the time this site down here was just developed and as.

J

Part of that development, it was required to put sidewalk along raincliff road, as well as along.

J

Buttercup road, so, as you mentioned, that sidewalk probably terminates somewhere in this point.

E

So I would connect into that. It eventually connect into the freedom park, but also I.

J

Believe that was the idea from planning staff. There is a piece of property shown here right.

J

That is not owned by either entity. That would have no sidewalk, but I believe planning staff.

J

They want to build as they can to make that connection. As you stated.

B

I will say I don't think I've seen quite as large a package of prints as we got from you all so.

B

Kudos to that, or at least in my time in being on the commission- they were huge um but helpful. So.

B

I other than I think the um recommendations are good recommendations and it does say around the.

B

Parking lot and the existing building for the amenity more and more people.

B

Are taking advantage of that nowadays, those that come to work but yeah, so any questions.

F

Of the day yesterday, well one of them signage where the signage entity entrance. You know right.

F

um So the way I envisioned this- and I saw some of the photos and the drawings and on the packages.

F

By the way, thanks for letting me uh lay around on my living room floor, flipping.

F

um So it's a it's a median, get the dual gate thing. That's. That makes a lot of sense. Where's, the the.

F

Signage is: is there a guard shack or something? No, there will be no guard jack. Okay. So it's a.

AJ

Tombstone, uh like you, have in a neighborhood for your power, it'd be just a tombstone in that.

AJ

Median so we can get all of our power and communications equipment in one spot right.

AJ

Makes sense and and uh the signage is just a northrop grumman- this is visitors and things.

F

Like that yeah just say north of northrop grumman right, where did the employees actually enter the.

F

Building so we have three main entrances where the employees enter. One is up here in the front.

AJ

uh The other two are on the sides where the parking lot is, if you could almost you could.

AG

Almost guess where that right, where they come through, so whether the person's in the front.

AJ

Half of the building I'll call it the office area or they're off to the right. Where that t is they.

AJ

Would walk in that entrance if they're working in the manufacturing area right and currently there.

F

Isn't any sidewalk uh in between the parking lanes? It's just you park and walk up correct.

J

Right so this, this is how it looks now. So, as you can see there, there are certain spots for.

J

The lights that are in on site, but there's no designated walkways currently right. Okay, so I.

J

Will mention also too I'm I'm trying to use my memory from two years ago uh back when, when we.

J

Were on the site, it was noted that, although not a a sidewalk surrounding the the paving area as.

J

A walking amenity there is a walking trail that runs through the woods on the property.

J

For the the employees to use it if they see fit, okay, very nice, okay, any other questions. No okay,.

B

um As before, so is there any public comment on this property.

B

Okay, see none as before. This is a concept plan, so there is no action required unless.

B

You would like it to come back before you or delegate it to the chair. Would you like a motion.

B

Whichever you would like to do I'll make a motion, but I first need to say.

G

um Leave the facility managers also a high school basketball coach. I probably should recuse myself.

G

Or or buy you a steak dinner uh in all seriousness, my father was an official, so um yeah I'll. Let that.

G

Go but it's cool that you do it um so with that, a move that we approve the site plan, as shown.

G

S21023 as amended, and I.

G

uh A move that we delegate europe, the approval to the chair, that's second I'd also add.

E

Planning staff recommends the ada compliant sidewalks. Thank you. Yep.

B

F

About second, okay, okay, there is a.

B

Motion and a second to give the approval to the chair for the final all in favor.

B

um That is unanimous, so you can move forward so also just for for clarification on staff's.

J

Viewpoint um you had mentioned follow suit, with the planning staff's recommendation for the.

J

Sidewalk is that accurate? You would like to see that on the plane, I'd like to see the sidewalk.

G

Yeah I've run down that road all the time, so yeah I'd like to say yes, yes, thank you. Thank you.

B

Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. All right, thank you.

AL

B

G

Let's go one more wendy's um number 13. concepts. I plan for.

B

S220040 wendy's eldersburg.

B

Welcome, gentlemen,.

B

And mr b craft, it's on you again.

J

David b craft bureau of developments review.

J

Next project on the agenda is for wendy's eldersburg file. Number s-220040 with me are.

J

Some representatives for the project, who I'll let introduce themselves.

J

Engineer for the project registration number 19561, representing when baltimore north llc.

AM

Who is the developer for the project I'm joined by dave bowersox? I'm david bowersox 24 north.

AN

Court street- I'm here on behalf of mr figueroa and the property owner who are the applicants.

B

Thank you. I am mark figarelli with wendy's and here's the developer of the project. Thank you all.

J

So, as you may be able to guess from the name, what is being proposed is a wendy's restaurant.

J

Down in the eldersburg area for those who are unfamiliar, this is on the corner of liberty,.

J

Road and west hemlock drive, so it is outlined here. This is west hemlock drive. This is dickinson road.

J

And here is 26. so to zoom in a little bit. uh This is the site shown here. This is before the planning.

J

Zoning commission as a concept plan but as with any site plan, uh the planning commission does have.

J

The authority to delegate final approval to the chair, so the project itself is a subject: property.

J

Itself is actually made up of two parcels. There is a .04 acre parcel and a 0.5 acre parcel together.

J

Totaling 0.56 acres. There is one structure that you can see on the property here. There is a paved.

J

Parking area which has direct access onto west hemlock drive. There are a few trees on this site.

J

And there are- or there is a sign also located on the property- there are no streams or floodplain.

J

Designations on the site and the property itself is served by public water and sewer facilities.

J

There is frontage, as you can see, on maryland route 26, which is liberty, road on west hemlock drive as.

J

Well, as dickinson road, there is existing sidewalk on dickinson road, as you can see from this aerial.

J

To the east, the property adjoins carroll station business center, which is right here.

J

That was approved by the plantings on the commission in 2000, as well as 2008 at carroll.

J

Station plan business center is under the same ownership as the subject property the site also.

J

Joins um this other neighboring property here, as well as those above it which are zoned residential.

J

All the properties are within the freedom's priority funding area, as well as the designated.

J

Growth area so to give a little history of the property for those that may be unfamiliar.

J

And there is a slight development plan for the subject: property for a retail building.

J

uh That was previously approved by the planning and zoning commission on april 19th of 2022. That.

J

Project is still valid within the report. It mentions that there were three extensions.

J

There haven't been any extensions as of yet it hasn't needed it at this point with it.

J

The approval only having been last year, but with the approval of this proposed wendy's.

J

Development that project will become void so they're. They want to leave it open to. As this.

J

Moves through the process and then once this gets approved, that project will no longer be valid.

J

So the concept site plan was subject to citizen involvement at the october 24 2022 technical.

J

Review committee meeting during the meeting there was one citizen that raised comments.

J

Regarding the lighting proposed and its effect on the neighboring residential properties, they.

J

Also raised concerns about ada compliance of the proposed improvements, since this meeting.

J

The sidewalk and pedestrian flow of the site have been updated to comply with adh standards and site.

J

Compliance has a granted concept, approval of the plan so, as mentioned there is existing sidewalk on.

J

The north portion of the property there is going to be sidewalk on the west portion, as well as the.

J

South portion of the property to to connect to those existing sidewalk areas, there is a.

J

Loop here that connects the parking area to the pedestrian area, do the due to the topography.

J

Of the land it had to essentially make a swoop there, without being, you know, directly straight in.

J

The developer proposes to remove all existing structures and trees and construct a single.

J

Story: restaurant building- that's roughly 2500 square feet here- are some architectural drawings.

J

Of that there's a flat roof being proposed with a maximum building height of roughly around 21 feet.

J

There's various building materials noted with a color scheme that you can see on.

J

The screen here- and there is also a sign proposed that you can see- is shown here.

J

So per the trip generated, a traffic impact study was required. The traffic impact study was.

J

Reviewed by both county staff, as well as state highway administration per that traffic impact.

J

Study there were no improvements recommended with that engineering review and state state.

J

Highway administration concurred with those findings and have approved the concept plan.

J

So parking requirements for this use is one space for every three patrons based on a total seating.

J

Capacity as well as a requirement of five queuing spaces leading up to the drive-through order board.

J

With the building's capacity or having a seating capacity of 40 patrons the required parking space.

J

Is total 14.? They have provided 17 parking spaces which will be separated into parking areas so.

J

There's going to be one parking area south of the site or on the south portion of the site between.

J

The building and 26 and there's going to be additional parking area or east of the site, which.

J

Will extend into the neighboring property, there will be two new access points to the site, both.

J

Will be internal access points to the neighboring property? So there's going to be a connection made.

J

Down here, as well as a connection made up here, this existing access point from west hemlock.

J

Drive will be removed so there's going to be no direct access from this site to the the roadways.

J

It will utilize those existing access points that are on the neighboring adjoining property and with.

J

That there are going to be cross easements that will be established with that as well.

J

So, with the the modifications of this neighboring property uh with this connection up here, this.

J

Connection uh will be made by way of moving or relocating the existing.

J

Dumpster, that's here over to this area over here.

J

And that will be accompanied with additional landscaping. That'll surround.

J

This dumpster here on this neighboring property, the dumpster for the subject property up here.

J

As well as along west hemlock, drive and 26, as you can see from this drawing here,.

J

So the land use designation and the 2018 freedom comp plan is commercial, medium.

J

Department of planning determined that this development proposal is consistent.

J

With that the plan policies, they did make a recommendation to connect the.

J

Existing sidewalk from the north side of the property into the site, so they're they're.

J

Looking for some sort of connection from this sidewalk up here directly into the site itself,.

J

um As stated, a monument sign is to be located at the corner of liberty and west hemlock drive down.

J

Here uh the sign itself is roughly seven and a half feet high by six and a half feet wide as.

J

You saw it was more or less a monument sign, it will be double-sided, it will be interiorly lit.

J

And a detail for this is provided in the plans and was also provided on the screen. So with.

J

That the bureau of resource management has granted concept stone, water management, approval, stormwater.

J

Management will be addressed with buyer retention facilities, a swale and a commercial drywall.

J

Stormwater management overflow will convey to an existing inlet to the north side of dickinson road.

J

Which is up here and the facilities are proposed within dickinson road right away, so this facility.

J

Here will extend into county right-of-way and the pursuit has been determined acceptable by.

J

The department of public works and the bureau of resource management and easement will be.

J

Established and its recognition by deed will be on condition of the final approval of the plan.

J

The plan is exempt from floodplain ordinance, forest conservation, water resources, grading fire.

J

Protection and emergency services utilities zoning administration have all approved the concept plan.

J

Public water and sewer will serve the site and a public fire. Hydrant is located 25 feet.

J

From the property at the east side of west hemlock drive, finally, the site plan will be.

J

Tested and reviewed for adequacy of public facilities in accordance with chapter 155.

J

So, to give an idea as to how the site looks currently, here are some some street views.

J

From google, as you can see, this is the existing structure here. This is on 26.. Here is another.

J

Shot from 26 looking straight at the facility or at the existing building, this is at the corner.

J

Of 26 and west hemlock drive again looking at the building. This is the current sign. That's on site.

J

And these are some pictures on west hemlock drive and dickinson road again, looking back.

J

At the site- and it it's easy to see that it's very distinctive, yellow building here, so if there's any.

J

Questions I'd be happy to answer them as well as those that are here representing the the project.

B

Thank you, mr podolac. Do you have anything you'd like to say.

AM

um Just a couple points um the the first is um regarding the ownership groups, the existing.

AM

Plan business center, which contains the two entrances well actually, two entrances from.

AM

Dickinson road and one off the state highway and, of course, has an excel detail lane that is under.

AM

The ownership of m, I properties, llc, the subject property- has a different ownership group 1702.

AM

Liberty, road llc, it is because of the different ownerships. It's difficult, there's no plan. Let me.

AM

Just say: there's no plan to consolidate the parcels. The parcels will exist as separate.

AM

Tracks they will be connected via a cross easement agreement for vehicular pedestrian.

AM

Access and there will be also a declaration of maintenance obligations for for common areas.

AM

um Given uh the nature of the site with there's a little bit of history to dickinson road.

AM

Dickinson road was first constructed up to the middle school property and then, when we.

AM

Developed these two parcels of the plan business center. We extended dickinson road to our common.

AM

Property right boundary, the road then was shifted and the county finished dickinson road and they.

AM

Were able to acquire a lot, I believe 10 daisy, island property. So what has happened is dickinson.

AM

Road shifted to the north, and so it left a large or sliver of right-of-way. That was beyond what.

AM

Would be typical for a road right away, we have, or the developer and owners have spoken with the.

AM

County commissioner, mr bowersox has developed an agreement, and so we were able to put some.

AM

Of our storm water management devices in the public right-of-way, and we have an agreement.

AM

That will be hopefully signed by the county commissioners. That would allow us to then maintain.

AM

And utilize, this area.

AM

With respect to the sidewalk from dickinson road, it has come to my attention that dickinson road is.

AM

Really greater or steeper than six percent so technically the sidewalk along dickinson road.

AM

Does not meet ada compliance? We originally had an entrance ada compliant access route.

AM

Coming in from dickinson road, but given the fact that you know we have this steep slope, we then.

AM

Reconfigured, the property so that we can provide ada compliance from to the front of the property.

AM

With respect to access to the property, if you had a mobile, or I should say an electric.

AM

Handicap, wheelchair you should be able to get up that six percent with all electronic electronic.

AM

I guess a wheelchair and what we've done is: we've extended and tied the sidewalk from the.

AM

Existing building at 1708 and we continued the sidewalk around so that you could in theory come.

AM

Through the access at dickinson road there's a handicap ramp behind the existing building. You.

AM

Could access that sidewalk come around and get to this wendy's, so, in short, I feel we have adequate.

AM

um Ada compliant roots well, for this site, there was some talk about trying to put a handicap ramp.

AM

In front of the dumpster- and I I really could not make that work- and I just wanted to point that out.

B

Mr bowersox, no, I don't have good afternoon. Madam chair members of the commission. I.

AN

Don't have too much to add this. This site is no stranger, as you alluded to previously.

AN

um It's been reviewed, it's been studied, it's been planned. um I would echo mr b craft's.

AN

Mentioning that this might be a good candidate for you to delegate uh approval to the chair, because.

AN

It it's no strain, it's no stranger to reviews, um and with that said, I have no further to add.

B

Mr figure, really I just wanted to say that name, but do you have anything you'd like to add.

AO

No just looking forward to becoming a part of the community again.

B

I will say I love this sign good.

B

I went on one about it. My husband was like all right. I get it, but.

B

Anybody have any questions. Could you just show me the traffic pattern for the patrons to the.

D

Drive up window and how that would work for the access and the entrance. Yes point that out could.

D

You do it with a pointer or another. Oh there you go. uh Okay can can I approach the the bench sure.

AM

Everybody likes options, so we have plenty of options. So if you, for example, are traveling.

AM

uh Eastbound on 26, you can enter the property through the main entrance of the plant business.

AM

Center make a left turn and then what happens? We have signage here, and this was a requirement of.

AM

Wendy's incorporated that would create this one-way traffic pattern around the building.

AM

And so you would have to loop around the building before you could get to the drive-through.

AM

It was to try to keep some of the traffic. You know, because you have people coming in different.

AM

Directions for the drive-through so that the entire concept was the one-way traffic pattern. If.

AM

You were traveling westbound on 26. You would turn left onto west hemlock during reynold to dickinson.

AM

And enter through the rear of the property, in which case you'd already be in the traffic now.

AM

And you could even drive through or if why did you close the west.

E

I'm sorry, why did you close? Why are you not considering that the.

E

West hemlock, oh, oh yes, it would be just too much traffic and too.

AM

Many entries too many, but what we have is we have, would have.

AM

Entrances within 100 feet of a road which is which is against the county code. But it's too kind of.

AM

Prohibits his confidence, you know so, for example, if there.

AM

Was the entrance here, someone could be turning right while you're turning left.

AM

So it was a safety considering yeah. So where is the main entrance for dine in patrons.

E

These parallel spaces, uh if they came in this way and the entrance to the building, is then where the.

AM

Front entrance is right there, just one entrance. Yes, that is the main entrance. Yes there's I.

AM

Believe that is an emergency exit, okay and then, like I said, we put the handy with the.

AM

Handicap here and provided the ada compliant room through the handicaps into the parallel.

D

Thank you any other questions. I guess the last question. I would ask david this. This makes.

G

More consistent, the curb line from mcdonald's all the way to this to this intersection does.

G

That that pretty much solves all that the you know the curve kind of comes in and out there.

G

Where the jmp pizza thing is and and autozone, probably yes, yeah. Okay, I know it is the yeah.

AM

But yes, uh the planned business center has an existing sidewalk.

AM

Through through the uh you know, the entrance uh that comes to our property line.

AM

I believe from our properties the entrance to the to the neighboring property and I think.

AM

That's the section of siloam that made me missing. Okay, this is, I think, you're right. That's nice!.

B

Any other questions I'll answer it. I guess the last question. I would ask mr bowersox knowing.

G

The ownership of the properties, then the last time we were here and we were talking about the.

G

Business, uh the commercial development there was conversation around a multi-tenant sign.

G

um The windy sign is taking the the place of that multi-tenant sign. Is that correct? Yes, that is.

AM

Correct we went from a pylon sign, yes, sir, pushing that 25 foot high limit. Yes, sir, thank you and.

B

So on hemlock, is that correct? It's yes, hemlock on liberty, road, so it'll.

J

Be out the quarter, I showed here where the cursor is roughly yes,.

F

That's good cute! That's all! I do.

B

Okay, um all right, so any public comment on this. Yes, sir.

AP

Hi, my name is jackson chung. I live at 657, shimmery run court in sykesville.

AP

I've never given a public comment or attended one of these meetings, so you know go easy on me.

AP

um I'm a senior at century high school and I'm a member of several clubs and organizations that.

AP

Meet and operate in eldersburg I see and interact with the community first hand on a daily basis and.

AP

I know that we're more than just some stop on the highway and yet that's kind of all.

AP

Our city has planned out to be. I have driven down liberty, road 26, countless times to get.

AP

To school, to get gas to get groceries every day, pretty much, and despite how great the community.

AP

Is from what I've seen I've have seldom ever seen, anyone in the city outside of a car, it's all cars.

AP

I feel no interaction with or place within the community, despite living and working in its center.

AP

uh And this restaurant will do nothing to promote foot traffic or walkability or conveniency for.

AP

The actual inhabitants of eldersburg it will struggle to promote other businesses in the.

AP

Area because, like every other business in the city, it's designed to be accessible by car, not by foot.

AP

And driving is all about the destination on the journey. Driving into wendy's will only get you.

AP

Two wendy's and it's very difficult to interact with the community or other businesses in the.

AP

Area just by driving additionally having the relatively large building centered in.

AP

The lot is wasted space. In my opinion, the revenue generated per acre will be significantly less than.

AP

A lot consisting of various small buildings and businesses, the low density of this establishment.

AP

Severely inhibits the ability of the law to gain revenue and appreciate and value over time.

AP

This proposed establishment disconnects the community from a sense of self and from a sense of.

AP

Collaboration and it adds to a low density urban sprawl that will struggle to build revenue for the.

AP

City, which is a trend that we see far too often in this country and in the state, it would be so much.

AP

More economical and beneficial, in my opinion, to expand upon the existing small structure structure.

AP

And adding other other small structures and local businesses into the lot to increase density and.

AP

Potential for revenue, um like kind of like the other retail proposal sort of does um but.

B

Any other public comment. I just want to point out again that we we have done a traffic.

AM

Study uh for this use and we've looked at the intersections uh surrounding the property and that.

AM

um We did not have any issues with respect to traffic study and no improvements were.

AM

Proposed by either the county or the state, and hopefully the sidewalks will.

AM

Start to generate some pedestrian traffic, we have residential residential subject.

AM

Subdivision behind us- and we certainly would welcome their pedestrian traffic bikes to.

AM

Whatever can get you there without leaving a carbon footprint where we're all in favor for.

D

So is the bulk of your business drive through or is it is, do you have a concept of of how.

D

Much is drive through and how much is or just patrons, who will stop there and and eat.

D

Each location obviously can be different, but 50, typically about 50 percent.

AO

um Is now going through drive through um that's changed a lot with covet. People still have not.

AO

Changed their habits since covid, um 100 to where they're back into dining in as much.

AO

As they were pre-covered, but we are seeing those numbers coming back but to answer your question.

AO

Currently, we're running around 50 to 60 percent on average uh is running through drive through.

B

Again, wendy's is not new to the community. You were across the street previously correct, correct, okay,.

B

So you're yeah, the company that I work for uh when baltimore south did not own that wendy's at.

AO

The time we recently bought the franchisee that owned, basically maryland virginia and dc out of.

AO

Bankruptcy, uh dorian covid, but my understanding is that the reason that wendy's had closed is.

AO

They lost their lease with the landlord um it's a basic kind of they couldn't get it renewed. So, okay,.

B

Okay, um yes, sir I'd also like to point out that the current sidewalk, um I believe it's currently.

AP

Up against route 26 is that correct, like the sidewalk is adjacent to route 26 right now in the.

AP

In the current plan, yeah parallel right, um so for me and for other pedestrians we find that kind of.

AP

Discouraging uh to walk on as it's right next to a high-speed road high speed wide. I know we have.

AM

um Yeah we're we've got a distance between the sidewalk and the edge of this. Do you have a like.

AP

A definite um like footage for the buffer zone in between yes, yeah. We we have a buffer. That is.

AM

uh From the state highway, where roughly I'm going to say, 15 to 20.

AM

We tie into the existing sidewalk of the planned business center that has a crew and gutter.

AM

And it's adjacent to an accident, so, in short, I think we've got safe pedestrian access when you.

AM

Turn the corner and you're walking along west hemlock. I think we have four or five.

AP

And I don't think I checked for this already, but.

AP

um Might I suggest uh trees or some shrubbery in between that, like 15 20 foot buffer zone between.

AP

uh 26 and the sidewalk as just like a safety barrier and sorry. But um perhaps if you have.

B

More questions, mr potato, like we'll answer that afterwards, so if it's one on one okay, thank you.

B

um All right so like before, if um it's a concept site plan so or you can designate final approval.

F

Okay, I'll make a motion on subject: s22040 wendy's eldersburg that we.

F

Move remove to delegate approval of the final site plan to the planning commission chair.

F

A second it's my second okay, okay, all right, we have a motion and a second before you all in favor.

U

Aye aye, okay, that is unanimous. So um good luck! Thank you. Thank you.

B

Okay, um there is a recess. I would like a five minute recess if it's possible, so.

B

Okay, we'll be back.

B

We are back item number 15 special report.

B

P220042 harvest creek.

AQ

For that good, well, I think afternoon at this point right good afternoon,.

AQ

Planning, commission and thank you everybody for being here today.

AQ

Sounds awfully loud, my name is kirsten marple, I'm with carroll county's bureau of development review.

AQ

As the chair mentioned, it we're here with you today for the harvest, creek subdivision file.

AQ

Number p220040: this is a little bit different than the other projects that you've seen this.

AQ

Day, this is a special report for this project. This is not a concept presentation for this project, yet.

AQ

This is a special report, we're coming to you before the concept presentation which.

AQ

Will be scheduled at a later date to talk in particular about a specific question.

AQ

Scenario here regarding authorization to process this cluster subdivision plan, the process of.

AQ

Subdivision plan as a cluster subdivision, I've spoken to a few people in the community. I just.

AQ

Wanted to put it right up top, this isn't a approval of the plan. This is not an approval.

AQ

Of the exact layout, this is an approval. This is not an approval of where any of these open space.

AQ

Parcels which we'll talk about will be. This is simply an approval or a consideration of.

AQ

Approval to authorize the project to proceed under the cluster regulations, as opposed to a general.

AQ

Subdivision, where the whole lot's just divided up into individual private property, so it's just an.

AQ

Authorization to proceed under this section of code and we will get into what that section of.

AQ

Code means I just want to put that right up top, though the layout's not being locked in any way.

AQ

Through this process, so with that being said, if I could have everyone with me introduce themselves.

AR

uh Jason van kirk elm street development wreck williams, development design, consultants. Thank you.

AQ

So that is a developer and the engineer for the project. So this is the harvest creek subdivision.

AQ

We are located in the southeastern section of the county. In fact, you can see at the.

AQ

Very bottom of the screen there, where it goes from green to dark that is the howard county.

AQ

County boundary and to the east just a little bit: it's the baltimore county county boundary.

AQ

The property here is highlighted with the orange outlines. That's on it's south of route 26. There.

AQ

Liberty, road, it's a little way away from wendy's. You have to drive and just a little bit to the.

AQ

West of marriottsville ridge, road, two sorry marysville road 2.. This is a zoom. In of that.

AQ

Area, you can see marriottsville to the east ridge, road, not route, 27 ridge, road, just ridge,.

AQ

Road to the north borders, this county along our property along the northern property line.

AQ

So this project is proposed for subdivision. This property is zoned. You can kind of see it.

AQ

Here, residential 40 000 and the very bottom corner there, the southern corner of the.

AQ

Property is conservation, so it's our 40 000 in conservation and they're able to subdivide that.

AQ

The um sorry, the division, the potential number of lots available on the property.

AQ

Is determined based on the size of the property and its zoning district and the r 40.

AQ

000 district, you need 40, 000 square feet per lot and the conservation zoning district. You.

AQ

Need three acres per lot and that determines your total maximum yield. If you would no matter what.

AQ

You do on a property you, you might not get maximum yield if you have to include roads or storm water.

AQ

Management ponds or things of that nature, you might get a little bit less, but you're never going.

AQ

To get more than the gross acreage divided up into the number of lots, with a very rare exception,.

AQ

So that is determined based simply on what we're looking at right now, the property as.

AQ

It is, and that yield is determined just on that and nothing changes that what's.

AQ

Being proposed here is for the property to be subdivided as a cluster subdivision and.

AQ

The reason I lay all that out is it's important to know that, when a property, a subdivision is.

AQ

Clustered when the lots are done as a cluster subdivision, the lot yield does not increase.

AQ

So the lot yield stays the same. It does not increase, but the lots are permitted to be smaller.

AQ

Than would otherwise be required in that zoning district, so that's what's being proposed here.

AQ

I'll come back to that, so we'll come back to that now it's just being proposed here. The properties.

AQ

Proposed to be subdivided as a cluster subdivision, that's the plan that we have in front of us here.

AQ

You'll see that the lots are smaller, I think without exception. Then the minimum.

AQ

Requirement of 40 000 square feet and the r40 district and three acres in the conservation.

AQ

District, all the lots proposed are smaller than that. That's permitted by the cluster.

AQ

Subdivision regulations, but what you'll see here is that there are areas of open space.

AQ

It's a little bit hard to see it's a very big plan and it's a little bit small on these screens. So I apologize that for that. But, for example, here as a parcel, that's not for our.

AQ

Private residences, it's open space parcel. So when you take this section here, for example,.

AQ

This is the conservation zone section. When you take this, you determine the lot yield.

AQ

You're able to put that many lots on here and reduce the size of that same number of lots to.

AQ

A point minimum of one acre and allocate that difference as open space. So you, you shrink the.

AQ

Size of the lots you dedicate the differences open space and you allocate the open space.

AQ

Throughout the property there are regulations for there's all sorts of regulations for the.

AQ

Open space requirements, I went over that and pretty significant detail and the plan set here.

AQ

The open space is located in different areas for different reasons, depending on those requirements.

AQ

This is a little bit busy looking. I thought it would be interesting.

AQ

This is a overlay of the plan over the aerial photograph of the property, with a.

AQ

Colors and lines indicating what streams are you can see in the blue and where the steep slopes are.

AQ

Again, it's really hard to see when it's so far away from you, but you can see that the open space.

AQ

Is on top of a lot of those streams.

AQ

There are a lot of hills on the property. There are spring heads on the property, there's floodplain on.

AQ

The property wetlands areas as well a lot of that's encompassed in the open space.

AQ

That would otherwise be included in the individual subdivision. Lots.

AQ

And again, the open space requirements are different depending on the district. So if we.

AQ

Back out to the fact that there are two separate districts here and they have slightly different.

AQ

Regulations, the conservation, zoning district, open space requirements and the residential district.

AQ

Open space requirements are tabulated separately. You'll see that on the plans that were provided to.

AQ

You there's an open space tabulation on the front page and they're calculated based on the district.

AQ

And then assessed together and laid out through the site in order to develop the site cohesively.

AQ

So the conservation district is a pretty straight shot. You just take the difference of the lot.

AQ

Size and you allocate that as open space, the residential district is where it really gets a.

AQ

Little bit more complicated than that, so I wanted to focus on that a little bit again. The reason.

AQ

We're here is to consider the authorization to proceed as a cluster subdivision, as opposed to a.

AQ

Conventional subdivision, so I wanted to go over those details.

AQ

All right, so in the residential district there are a variety of different minimums and maximums.

AQ

Required based on what you're able to have in or what you have to provide for those open spaces.

AQ

For example, the common open space can't be less than 15 percent of the gross acreage of the entire.

AQ

Property and that requirement is met through this process. 15 of the total site would be 22 acres.

AQ

I should have started here: the total required some open space for the entire development is.

AQ

58.8 acres, so all together collectively when we assess the conservation district and the.

AQ

Residential district separately and then put them all together and into one number, the total.

AQ

Amount of open space requires 58.8 throughout the site. Currently, 58.7 acres are provided.

AQ

And that's laid out throughout the entire site and that will be broken down and individually for.

AQ

The use and the classification that we'll talk about in a minute but 58 .8 acres require 59.7.

AQ

Acres provided this plan is almost guaranteed to change as this process moves forward. This.

AQ

Is a large subdivision? This is not something that happens in just a few months. There are.

AQ

A lot of requirements that need to be met in general. There are a lot of requirements and.

AQ

Questions that are posed currently, that need to be responded to as this project moves forward.

AQ

This layout will change as time moves on. I can't say how it will change or how much it.

AQ

Will change but it will change so these numbers will change too, because these numbers are.

AQ

It's a lot of calculation time involved in these cluster subdivisions. These numbers will change.

AQ

No matter what, though, they're going to have to maintain at least the minimum required open space.

AQ

And that minimum required open space might change too, as this moves forward say they might have.

AQ

To lose a lot or more and that open space will change entirely, depending on. What's being what.

AQ

The difference between the minimum required lot size for that number of lots versus the provided.

AQ

Lot size for whatever lots, they've provided, so these numbers will change and that will have to be.

AQ

A primary goal of this development, as it moves forward, is balancing and.

AQ

Maintaining at least the minimum amount of open space required. So with that being said,.

AQ

We covered that it meets currently the 15 gross acreage requirement and exceeds that.

AQ

Would need to be 22.3 acres provides 57.7 acres or 59.7 acres, so it exceeds that minimum requirement.

AQ

There's another requirement too: I mentioned previously that a lot of the open space in the.

AQ

Center of the property is over streams, floodplain and steep slopes. There's a requirement that less.

AQ

Than 50 percent 50 or less of the open space provided is steep slopes, streams, floodplains.

AQ

When you calculate this out, the current plan again they'll need to maintain this.

AQ

If they proceed with this cluster process, 48.4 percent of the open space provided is.

AQ

Streams floodplains steep slopes which meets the requirement of being less than 50 percent.

AQ

One of the bigger requirements for cluster subdivision and the r40 district or in the.

AQ

Residential district is it active. Open space is provided. Like I mentioned, there's a lot of open.

AQ

Space that isn't- and that is an environmental areas that would wouldn't really be usable.

AQ

Even if it was a privately owned lot that was going to have easements on it and and so on,.

AQ

um But open space for our district is required to have a portion of it being active available.

AQ

For active use now that could just mean in an open field that could mean eventually maybe a.

AQ

Playground, basketball court, that kind of thing you've seen them around the county.

AQ

um And that's that would be required based on the r district totals.

AQ

Okay, so doing the math for that the requirement, I believe, is 10 of the minimum.

AQ

Yeah at least 10 percent of the r40 districts. Minimum acreage requirement has to be available.

AQ

For active, open space, as I mentioned, that would have to be areas where it's not a steep slope or.

AQ

Something in fact it specifies that the grade of the ground there has to be three percent or less.

AQ

So that has been provided, the minimum requirement ended up being 5.1 acres.

AQ

And the proposal on the current plan specifies six acres and that's spread.

AQ

Out through a few lots or through parcels, the primary active open space.

AQ

Would be in this parcel here? This is in the southeast corner in the conservation district.

AQ

There's another larger active open space parcel here, which is again still in the conservation.

AQ

District, as you can see the this gray area here, this shaded gray area, that's a steep slope. So as.

AQ

You can see they can only allocate it in certain areas, and these areas tend to have less of that.

AQ

Steep slope area. I also wanted to note there's an additional open space parcel here as well.

AQ

And I can't recall- and I can't see I think, only a portion that is active and the other portions just.

AQ

Considered open space, but that's sandwiched between two two subdivision: lots currently.

AQ

And then additional active open space is within this region. Here, a couple of.

AQ

Parcels here, a few in fact that have the active open space available, as you can see,.

AQ

Faintly, that's essentially backs up to an addition. Existing residential subdivision.

AQ

Sorry, it's been a long day. I probably should have started there.

AQ

This property is essentially bordered by an existing residential subdivisions.

AQ

So a lot of the areas where you see that this development on the edge of.

AQ

The property it's essentially backed up and adjacent to.

AQ

Generally, somebody's backyard or somebody's side yard is an existing subdivision. There.

AQ

And existing houses that have that are occupied and so on existing neighborhoods, I should say.

AQ

That active, open space generally is is up against.

AQ

Existing residential backyards in those locations and that requirement is presently met.

AQ

I also wanted to note here too, because it's kind of hard to see again even when you're looking.

AQ

At paper plans, this active open space parcel here and the conservation zoning district. If.

AQ

You were to reach it by car you're coming off of lazy morning way, which my mouse disappeared.

AQ

But it's right down here: it's an existing cul-de-sac that will be continued through.

AQ

And that's where the existing access would be for that parcel. However, there's also a walking path.

AQ

That would provide access to the rest of of this community lazy morning way goes through.

AQ

An existing community, as I mentioned as an existing subdivision down there.

AQ

But there's a walking path that will be provided based on the current plans.

AQ

It comes out of the proposed public roads within this proposed subdivision.

AQ

As I mentioned before, a lot of the natural resources through this proposed open space.

AQ

Parcel area would be protected by county easements. As this moves forward, flood planning has been so.

AQ

Required water resource management, easements, probably forest conservation, easements on site.

AQ

In addition to it being within that open space and when the open spaces created, there are additional.

AQ

County easements that are required for that, so these properties will be essentially encumbered.

AQ

Twofold by the standard county easements for environmental features and then for the easements.

AQ

For the conservation of the open space parcel, however, the county might choose not to own these.

AQ

Open space parcels county has the right of first refusal for these parcels, but they may choose.

AQ

To allocate that to the developers to choose to either have it owned by hoa or in certain parcels.

AQ

Allocated for, I believe they can.

AQ

Direct it to the property owner, but it's probably my understanding that, from what I've seen on the.

AQ

Plans, this would all be owned by the hoa if the county doesn't take it. Okay, that's right.

AQ

So these parcels will all be owned by the hoa and again to circle back to the beginning. Here.

AQ

I'm happy to answer any other questions for sure it's been a long day, so I might have skipped a few.

AQ

Things here this is a special report specifically to seek authorization to continue processing. This.

AQ

As a cluster subdivision plan, the lot yield is determined based on essentially the gross.

AQ

Acreage of the property this lot yield does not get increased when the lots are reduced.

AQ

In size, the lot size is allocated as open space parcels, which I think the plan will.

AQ

Be that probably all of it will be owned by the hoa unless the county chooses to take any of it.

AQ

Currently, the minimum requirements are met. The plan will certainly change as this moves forward.

AQ

It's a long process ahead of us and they will keep need to maintain those minimum requirements.

AQ

And this is really the beginning of the process. This project will be before you.

AQ

Again in the future, once the concept requirements are worked out and the.

AQ

Plan is relatively stabilized, we'll come back before you again for a concept review.

AQ

In which case we'll be able to answer all sorts of questions, we have had a lot of public inquiry.

AQ

And input about this project, I focus today really tightly on the cluster requirements. That's what.

AQ

This meeting was about that's. What we focused on is the cluster requirements. We've had a lot.

AQ

Of feedback and input from community members specifically about roads, about the development.

AQ

Happening in general, making sure that it's not impacting the neighborhood negatively some some of.

AQ

Those comments were more related to the clustering provisions. I believe we forwarded you some over.

AQ

The past few days that we've received, I can summarize a few of them that I had here with me.

AQ

So most of the ones we've received most of the comments we've received, which again were.

AQ

Forwarded to the planning commission were not in favor of clustering. The subdivision.

AQ

Concerns about clustering, the subdivision lots would not provide a buffer against existing.

AQ

Neighborhoods, particularly off of morning, wind drive, which is off of lazy morning,.

AQ

Morning, when drive comes down here, I believe it turns a sharp corner and goes this way. So these.

AQ

Subdivision lots here would be in their front yards concerns about safety and comfort, drive.

AQ

Driving levels will increase, traffic will increase, there's issues with safety of traffic. There.

AQ

Objecting to the cluster development similar.

AQ

Concerns about being too close to the existing houses.

AQ

At the minimum, the open space could be relocated to serve as a buffer to the existing neighborhood.

AQ

Same thing here, you have adjustment to the layout, allow for more continuous open space, as opposed to.

AQ

Fragmenting it, houses on the side of lazy morning could be reluctant yeah, so most of the ones.

AQ

A lot of the concerns that we received were from again adjacent neighborhoods concerned about.

AQ

New backyards against their backyards, their houses in the area, new traffic on the road, some of those.

AQ

Are relevant to the cluster concerns, which is why I wanted to mention them now. There are a.

AQ

Lot of other comments and concerns we got you'll be forwarded all those copies when we get to the.

AQ

Concept meeting to consider the the implications of everything going on here, the specific request.

AQ

Is about clustering, which again does not increase? The lot yield is not going to change traffic.

AQ

Theoretically is not going to change a lot of the concerns we've heard otherwise, so I just wanted.

AQ

To mention that, because we have received a lot of inquiry- and I didn't read all that to you today so.

A

Just a quick question: what what is the acreage on parcel's 57 and the zoning on each one and.

D

232., what's the acreage and what zoning on each one of these parcels, so are you referring to.

AQ

The parent parcels, the original parcels, what we have here, parcel 57 and partial 232.. So are you.

D

Reconfiguring those parcels or are you so that's the yeah, the two existing parcels. Let me go back.

AQ

Right yeah, so this is this: is you can see this line this teal line? This outlines the property.

AQ

You can see those two properties yeah. I mentioned that in my before I should have clarified here in.

AQ

The meeting this property, the subdivision, consists of two properties that are owned in common and.

AQ

Being developed in common, it's it's a pretty common practice. It's once. It's all subdivided.

AQ

It's going to they're all the lots are going to exist instead of these two properties, so.

AQ

And because of the way that lot yield works and the conservation and in the residential.

AQ

Districts, whether or not they're separate, does not change the lot yield, unlike with con with the.

AQ

Ag zoning district, which makes a big difference if you have two separate properties and a set of.

AQ

um Having one lot yield tabulation you're going to have two with this one, it's going to be the.

AQ

Same number, regardless, so there's no need to consolidate okay, so you're not proposing to move.

D

Density across conservation zone too: yes, sir or 40., no in fact, they're calculated separately from.

AQ

Each other- and I think that the plans break that down. So when all is said and done, I hate.

D

To interrupt you but trying to get to a point here, so when all is said and done, the conservation zone.

D

Will still have that many houses, that's calculated on the conservation zone, acreage and the.

D

Our 40 000 will still have the same number of houses that, before on our 40 000. correct um to.

AQ

Determine I had a note here: that's that is correct. Same number, won't change, determine the lot yield.

AQ

The gross acreage is used in these two districts, so, no matter what size you have it's, if it's this.

AQ

Plus this or this separately and then add together at the end, it's 133 well 148 or 148 lots total.

AQ

Collectively is what's possible: 148 slots total is what's selected, possibly what I'm getting at.

D

Yeah so what's being proposed here is 137 lots which again that's by the nature of having to.

AQ

Put roads down and the open space requirements and and so on and so forth. So the non-buildable.

D

Areas which would be the streams the wetlands, the buffer areas that counts toward lot yield.

AQ

Correct that's gross lot yield. So, no matter what, if you're coming in for conventional.

AQ

Subdivision or this cluster subdivision, when you ask if somebody calls us with the property, says.

AQ

How many lots can I have we're going to tell you whatever that number divided by the total.

AQ

Required acreage is that's the gross lot yield. That's what's used for a regular subdivision and.

AQ

A cluster subdivision and no matter what you have to show how you can get those the practicality of.

AQ

The feasibility of building around the resources you have and that's true, either way. Okay, so what.

F

Sorry, I'm done so. Thank you join the uh total acreage. What was um the the buildable lot yield.

AQ

As far as working as um working, I love the of the hundred and forty eight acres. How much of it.

F

Really was build able to be have residential homes built so the way extreme slopes, blah blah blah the.

AQ

Way that the code reads and that's included here and when it was when it was zoned r40 right, it.

AQ

Still is under our 40. um the way the code reads, which is included in the planning commission.

AQ

Report there, the total number of lots and dwelling units may not exceed the number. That would be.

AQ

Permitted for the zoning district based on the gross area of the parcel or track being subdivided.

AQ

In the past the plant, the the code, the subdivision regulations- specified something.

AQ

um I'm having a friend of me now, but something about the topographic natures of the property and.

AQ

So on and so forth, percolation testing might be required. That code was adjusted. I think.

AQ

2019 to read, as it is now that they use the gross acreage, there was extensive.

AQ

Studying done by our office, there was meetings with the planning commission to authorize those.

AQ

Changes planning, I believe, was the lead on that modification. So the way it reads now, when the.

AQ

The topographical layout of the property is not factored into how many lots you can get out of.

AQ

It it's just a gross acreage divided by the total, so minimum ask the question to the developers how.

F

Many homes can be built on the original on the 148 acres. How many can you get in there zoned as r40.

F

How many, how many is that the issue you can't make your number uh with um you can't build as many 140.

F

137 homes, with the original uh plan, the r40 plan, or without clustering, without clustering.

AR

The uh the purpose for clustering really is about protecting the environmental resources.

AR

And not putting that on lots for uh residents um residents have a a tendency to not respect that.

AR

Quite as much as or at least a handful of them won't and it becomes problems in the future.

AR

Really, because of the way the zoning code reads, we never did a plan. That was our forty thousand only.

AR

um We because of the comprehensive rezoning change to the r40 000 zoning code. We we're following the.

AR

Code uh to a t in terms of putting this plan together, um you know in the past, we as as.

AR

We've developed our 40 000 lots where you, uh what you do is you um you're building restriction, your.

AR

Building envelope needs to be outside of those environmental resources, but that is that can be a.

AR

A quarter of a lot a quarter of an acre, a third of an acre part of a lot, and you can then push the.

AR

Lot lines into those environmental resource areas and and that's how those plans have historically.

AR

Been put together, I think uh overall, though, that the you end up with a a better lot design.

AR

And a better infrastructure design when you're able to cluster and then do larger, open space.

AR

Parcels that are either dedicated to the county or overseen by the hoa for their long-term protection.

AN

Hi man, I'm david bowersox, 24 north court street, the change in the code.

AN

That they're, referring to when that was up for consideration. I think both here.

AN

For your predecessors and the county commissioners board of county commissioners at that time,.

AN

There was a presentation done a study done review from the bureau of development review.

AN

Of the situations of a number of existing subdivisions that were developed under the.

AN

Old code- and there was a determination- came back that there was a negligible amount of difference.

AN

In the potential lot yield of a conventional, let's call it r40 or r20, whatever the subdivision was.

AN

And the cluster layout there was negligible if any difference, and in fact I think most of those.

AN

Sites that were studied the cluster ultimately yielded less lots than the.

AN

Conventional plan would have been in the zoning district.

AQ

And if I could as well, the regulations for the r district and the c district are.

AQ

Different, like I had mentioned, the way that the c district reads in regard to the number of lots.

AQ

So- and this is this- is what the residential district used to read like to, which is where.

AQ

The I think this question came from total number of lots and dwelling units shall not exceed the.

AQ

Number that would be permitted if the area repeated developed, in conformance with this.

AQ

Topographic characteristics and normal minimum lot size requirements. I will note there was a.

AQ

Conventional plan provided for the cluster for the conservation zone district that would show.

AQ

How it be developed in accordance with its topographic characteristics, five laws were.

AQ

Shown on that plan, four lots are shown on this cluster plan. They actually lost yield when they.

AQ

Went to the cluster or they reduced yield, so they were capable of showing five lots.

AQ

Proposed for that conservation district, which is the only one that has that sort.

AQ

Of language currently based on the date that this plan was submitted, um and they actually.

AQ

Lost yield between that conventional plan and, what's being proposed with this cluster plan,.

G

When, when we see a plan like this, and we see a road kind of coming through.

G

um It would be my inclination, and I would think it would be the county's inclination.

G

If we're going to use a road like that as a secondary collector, I don't know that I'm.

G

That's the inclination or what we're trying to do, but if that's what we're trying to do here.

G

I would prefer- and I think that I think we as citizens would prefer to see.

G

Fewer driveways connected to that road because you don't want people coming down that secondary.

G

Collector and backing out of their driveway. At the same time, we did that on monroe and we.

G

Did it well right, I mean that road is designed to go through it's designed to be a secondary.

G

Collector almost a bypass, if you will, and this road we've got so many homes back, you know using.

G

It as their primary access, I would have concerns about that. The second thing I would say is when.

G

We talk about active, open space um and we have it piece milled all over the place. I I question.

G

What the community, because there's supposed to be something in it for the community and I question.

G

Whether or not this community is an hoa or the community at large, really benefits from having you.

G

Know some little dog-eared sliver of land, that's community open space, that's something that the hoa.

G

Is going to have to maintain yet there's really no feasible use that you can gain from it, and so.

G

ah You know how we, how we, you know you're asking for us to say: yeah, go ahead with a cluster plan.

G

There are three or four things with this: I mean that enclave of clustered homes with that has no.

G

Real access to a dedicated right there, yeah that that is, that is a sardine can of of homes without.

G

Access to public road when you have a an amazon truck pulling in and an emergency vehicle trying.

G

To get access at the same time or kids walking down the road trying to get home after school.

G

I see that as a problem just from an emergency vehicle vehicle access standpoint.

G

um It just seems like we are trying to get a lot in here. When you know the property is challenged.

G

To begin with, because of the the creek, the water, the slopes, you know, I know I get that.

G

You want as many homes and as many lots as you can get in here. I'm just I'm telling you that.

G

Yeah, I think we may have gone a bridge too far with this, for a lot of different reasons.

G

From a clustering standpoint, I don't have a problem with clustering. I just.

G

Want it done right, and I don't think this is right. That's just my feedback.

E

In a conventional plan, would the road system be similar to this.

E

Or you'd have a access to other roads, so I will note this road that comes through.

AQ

It was just being discussed. Is it it's a it's on the master plan, this road will probably still.

AQ

Look this way you're, probably still going to have access to this ridge. Road you're, probably still.

AQ

Going to have access to this road here, these are all things that are essentially when these.

AQ

Additional subdivisions around it were laid out that consideration was put into place to provide.

AQ

These access points you're, probably going to still see the roads coming in at the same place.

AQ

I can't speak to what it would look like as far as the rest of it you're, probably going.

AQ

To still have things coming in at same locations, but the configuration inside.

AQ

um Might be more question for the engineer what that might look like if it was not a cluster subdivision or what alternatives exist as a cluster subdivision.

E

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure, even if we we do the conventional.

E

The same problems, I hear you, I again, I think, given the density, we're trying to get out of.

G

Here I don't know that it changes a whole lot, I mean, but we're trying to do an awful.

G

Lot with this piece of property, but in general I I I've always liked the concept of clustering.

E

And I don't see where this would cause any more of a problem than the convention.

E

Yeah, if I could just reiterate what what kirsten indicated as part of her report.

I

This we anticipate a lot of the questions that you've you've brought up. Staff has also raised.

I

Some of those issues- and um we anticipate that when this comes before you as a concept plan that.

I

It's going to look different than what you're seeing here, it'll be refined. Yes, okay, chris.

G

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you clarifying this. I don't need to, in particular, for example,.

AQ

When you had mentioned about access points onto that through road, that's a comment. We had.

AQ

Previously made and we're working out these kind of these situations, as this moves forward again.

AQ

It's very very much in the very beginning of this process, so we appreciate the feedback that will.

AQ

Help guide where this moves in the future, as just as the case with the determination of the.

AQ

Authorization to cluster, which will provide direction as to what section of code we're.

AQ

Adhering to so, we appreciate the feedback, and this will definitely, as I've mentioned, a number.

AQ

Of times it will look different when we see it again in the future. It's going to have to.

AQ

B

Ralph richard right now, stephen okay.

B

um Any anything else from you, gentlemen, before I open it to public comment.

AR

I certainly have some responses, but knowing that this is cluster design or cluster.

AR

um Only that really is reserved for more site plan issues that we.

AR

Have some solutions for some of the questions being posed right.

B

AS

Hi, my name is kristen morinelli I live at 2175 morning. Wind drive, I'm not opposed to clustering.

AS

On the conservation area, but I am opposed to clustering that doesn't benefit the community.

AS

Or allows more construction than could occur without clustering due to natural features such.

AS

As wetland slopes, streams, etc, the county says the open space from clustering should benefit.

AS

The community the currently submitted plans only show the open spaces empty lots with.

AS

No plans developer has no plans to install any playground or other structures. Here we were told.

AS

By the developer, the future hoa will determine what, if anything, is put on the open space.

AS

As of now and likely in the future, this area will remain open space. There are also small.

AS

Areas of open space like parcel, I a one acre area of open space between planned homes who.

AS

Would maintain that and what benefit is provided by that open space? This doesn't benefit the new.

AS

Home buyers because they'll have smaller lots and it doesn't benefit the existing neighborhoods.

AS

The only benefit derived from this clustering plan is to the to the developer, allowing the.

AS

Homes to be closer together to save on infrastructure costs, developer also told.

AS

Me he wants to create a high-end enclave on the conservation area separated from the rest of its.

AS

Development with its own entrance, where he'll build more expensive houses. This is the plan.

AS

For the development on the conservation area, the open space where it is now serves to separate the.

AS

Conservation area from the rest of the property benefiting the developer by separating the two.

AS

Developments and allowing him to charge more for the homes on the exclusive conservation area.

AS

The neighbors on the south side of the development are on conservation. Zoning we're all on three to.

AS

Five acres, so the clustered homes on one acre lots right along our front property lines. Don't tie in.

AS

With the existing neighborhood, which is one of the stated goals in the freedom plant, I've met.

AS

With the developer a few times in the past few years and a meeting in 2021, the developer told.

AS

Me they'd have a landscaping and other features to provide visual and audio screening for the.

AS

Current neighborhood from the new development as of our last meeting in the spring, these concerns.

AS

Were largely ignored, much like the bachmann valley area is discussed earlier. Sound travels very far.

AS

In our neighborhood we can hear what happens in our neighbor's yard several houses away, we're very.

AS

Concerned about the visual and audio disturbances will be forced to deal with as a result of this.

AS

Development, the backyards of these houses will be along our front property lines. It's highly.

AS

Feasible these homes will have swimming pools in their backyards. I would have never purchased a.

AS

House located directly behind another house, but this is what we're facing right now. One neighbor.

AS

Emmy crouch had submitted two options that provide more contiguous, open space on the property and.

AS

Also locates the open space along the perimeter of the new development providing a buffer between the.

AS

Developments, this would benefit both communities by providing audio and visual screening. It would.

AS

Also alleviate our concerns about runoff from the new development onto our private road morning. Wind.

AS

Drive this benefits more people than where the open space is currently located. I'm not opposed.

AS

To clustering, but it needs to provide a benefit to the community, help alleviate the concerns of.

AS

The existing neighborhoods and minimize the new development's impact on the current neighborhoods.

AS

If clustering is approved, we would like the open space to provide a buffer space between.

AS

The existing neighborhood and the new development on the submitted plan there are small areas of.

AS

Open space between parcels, please put all open space in a contiguous area along the perimeter.

AS

Of the property, so the open space can be more useful and please keep in mind the citizens.

AS

Rights in the existing neighborhoods- and I want to touch upon one other thing that was mentioned.

AS

The access from lazy morning way, I know that- was always planned if a development went in there, but.

AS

Until public sewer was extended to this property about two years ago, the whole almost 150 acre plot.

AS

Could only have 14 houses built on it so saying that that was always meant as an access point.

AS

While it is technically true, it was still never designed for that many houses to come into my.

AS

Neighborhood, we have 90 degree turns we have dips. We have turns, I know several years ago a kid got.

AS

Life-Flighted out because he got hit by a car on a bicycle, an adult was in the icu for three.

AS

Weeks in, I think 2020 because he was hit at the entrance to our neighborhood by another neighbor.

AS

um So we already have safety concerns through the forest hills, neighborhood.

AS

With speeding delivery trucks, things like that, so while that access point was always designed.

AS

To access that area, it was never designed for that much traffic. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Any other comments.

B

AT

um Thank you, I'm gretchen green. I live in 7092 wellington drive, so I live right off of ridge, road.

AT

um It's been a really long meeting today and I'm I'm just winging it. I didn't come prepared with.

AT

A speech or anything, um but I just want to say as far as this development goes.

AT

um It's density, housing and I live in the neighborhood and most most of the homes in.

AT

The area it's pretty open space, it's agricultural, it's it's quiet, it's peaceful! We all move there.

AT

For that type of community, um it's it's just dead quiet at night. It's beautiful.

AT

um This would be a radical change and, and where I hear cluster clustering.

AT

um You know, I think, that's a way to ensure that they can get the high density in there pack as.

AT

Much as possible in the area and- and I don't understand all the technical language and these.

AT

Kind of meetings, because they're new to me, but I just do- have a lot of concerns, especially ridge.

AT

Road: it's not a safe road! There's no shoulders on the road! I'm really concerned about how this.

AT

High density cluster development is going to impact our infrastructure, our schools, our water.

AT

Sewer all of that stuff and the communication has not been great. I I got a little postcard.

AT

It's pretty discouraging you, don't really know what it's about. um I don't know it a.

AT

Lot of people you know in our extended community that are all going to be impacted. This is going.

AT

To be a radical change with this high density, it's going to transform the whole area you're.

AT

Talking hundreds of cars on single lane roads that with no shoulders, I mean it, it's drastic.

AT

So I just want to go on the record as saying that I really think I hope the commission is really.

AT

Thinking seriously about all of these aspects and clustering may be a good development tactic, um but.

AT

I'm just really concerned about the density and and how it moves forward. So thank you. Thank you.

AU

Hi I'm amy lanhart, I live um 7072 wellington drive and I live next to gretchen. So I live.

AU

Right off of ridge, road too, but just to kind of zone in a very similar to two ladies spoke before.

AU

Me and again I I would like to just mention, like the communication of all, this has been.

AU

Not very well done most of my neighbors really their postcards late, late notice. I mean they. We.

AU

Got them very little description on them just websites they they look like they have been.

AU

Through I don't know what it was very hard to even read the websites like they look like they've, been.

AU

Xeroxed or something it was, it was terrible. So a lot of my neighbors wanted to be here and couldn't.

AU

Be here but gretchen and I both came, but I just wanted to say this sounds like a development.

AU

Similar, like maybe jenna states like you're, just trying to put a ton of houses, and I think it's a.

AU

Huge concern for ridge road, just like gretchen said I mean there is just no shoulders. I think.

AU

We're really missing the school aspect as well, which I know my daughter isn't um warms, and I was.

AU

Told not to bring my husband only one parent per child because they can't have over 70 people in.

AU

That classroom and their schools are getting full and we're kind of ignoring that. But it's projected.

AU

To be much bigger, I know I was on several calls like overcovered when we were talking about this.

AU

um Whole area being built- and there were so many people there's so many people that have concerns.

AU

And I it's a shame that they're not here, but I think that really the communication hasn't.

AU

Happened very well that they're, aware of that, and I just think, if you're putting that many.

AU

Houses across I mean it backs up, we're not talking about it, but feverts is right. There I mean that is.

AU

A farm right, it's a farm, so I bought by our house. You know 19 years ago, with a farm behind me. Farms.

AU

Across me, buford's right there and of course, if I wanted to live in harvest farmers, some.

AU

Of these areas, where they had all those houses, that's what we would have done, but it's just it's.

AU

Just a lot of houses, I know we have several acres gretching and several acres. I mean and you're.

AU

Just putting in and we look at that farm and now we're going to have all these houses just jammed.

AU

In there- and, I think, we're kind of missing the fact that it's going to impact ridge road is very.

AU

Dangerous I've called the it used to be police. The sheriff used to sit in that little alcove.

AU

Across from ridge road and they used to catch people, no one doesn't anymore. The only way. The.

AU

Only place you get a ticket is up by quail meadow they're, not policing our road at all anymore. I've.

AU

Called several times my daughter's bus has been passed. Many many times I've been passed.

AU

Many many times just coming out of my driveway people ride right up on you all the time. It's.

AU

It's really gotten busy everybody's peeling out to either get to the ridge, road and they're going to.

AU

Go 70 or they're going to cut down through um sunset to like get over to 26, but it's really.

AU

Really busy and buses are getting passed and I know a lot of it doesn't get reported. I try to.

AU

Call in every time it happens just so at least it's on the record, but it's happening many many.

AU

Times all the time and putting all those people in there when you have to think of like even shannon.

AU

Drive, that's like one acre. Lots like this is just putting in really small lots with a lot of people.

AU

Okay and everybody wears amazon, it never stops. You know they come running in to all.

AU

The neighborhoods, but anyway that's just what I wanted to say. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Any other comments- okay, I I will say we are here today to talk about clustering.

B

um A lot of the comments that have been made will be addressed. Should this go forward in that.

B

Format and you will have an opportunity to come back- I'm sorry that your postcards didn't come.

B

But um or it came messed up, that is united states postal service.

AU

B

Very so well, it's still the postal service how it does come in that thing.

B

Okay, all right, so thank you so um hearing no more public comment. The question is before us about.

B

Clustering and should it go forward, there are many many phases that they will face: public facilities.

B

um Schools just to name a few things so, um gentlemen, I guess I just want to address.

E

That, even if we don't cluster, welcoming the same number of lots, will be there correct the density.

AQ

Would not increase with the cluster provisions as opposed to a conventional, so I mean it's because.

E

Of the zoning of that property, you know all the people that west of that same issue came up.

E

When they, I don't know if they clustered, but they have a lot of houses there and the people next.

E

To them complained about in this developed, it's just the way the zoning is at this point, so it's.

E

Not going to make a lot of difference, whether we cluster or not, sometimes when we consider.

E

Clustering: it's because we're trying to get a little bit more open space as opposed to that.

B

Well said richard: okay, any other comments.

B

Okay again, the question before you is about the clustering for authorization.

AQ

Regarding continuing with the cluster of plan regulations for the subdivision, so if.

E

An ordinances of carroll county for authorization regarding a cluster plan of subdivision.

E

That's what we would approve.

R

That's correct, yes, that would be the motion and I'll make that motion.

B

Is there a second.

F

B

You second, I did okay, um so.

B

Any other comments I feel like.

B

Okay hearing none. Then there is emotion and a second before you all in favor.

B

Any opposed do you think we can take a roll call vote because it's oh because of where we are laura.

B

You want to take a roll call. Yes, I can hear you. Yes, I can do that. Mr lester. Yes,.

I

Mr kane, yes, mr smith, yes, mr robertson,.

I

I

Or one okay, so um well, not unanimous. We do have a majority so.

B

um The charge to you is to bring back a plan that I'm sure will change, but you can plaster.

B

So, thank you very much. Thank you for your time, everybody thank you.

A

B

Annual report number 16.

D

. good afternoon, good afternoon, good afternoon, tiffany a year before you.

AV

Requesting approval of the carroll county, 2022 annual planning report, I came before.

AV

You on june, 7th, with a introduction and presentation to the report, did.

AV

Anyone have any questions regarding the report or the presentation that I gave.

B

I I don't think so. Do you, gentlemen, have any questions on this stephen, so.

B

Are you no, oh, am I requesting a report, or am I giving a presentation, no more presentation that.

AV

Is all that I'm doing is requesting the approval of the report? Okay, all right so.

AK

um I would like to make a motion to approve the 2022 annual planning report for submittal.

AK

To the maryland department of planning, with consistency with the master plan.

AK

Second, okay: we have a motion and a second before you all in favor aye.

B

Okay, thank you have your approval. If any, you can come back. Let's do that again.

B

First, all right can I borrow your pen, yes, ma'am. Thank you.

I

Madam chair, if could we take a five minute recess? Please? Yes, sir. Thank you. Okay, five minute recess,.

B

All right- and we are at number 17- community, solar in the agricultural district.

B

Brenda denny good afternoon, madam chairman, before this starts yes, sir I'd like to recuse myself from.

D

Any discussion on this just want everyone to know that I was part of the committee that the.

D

Commissioners asked to be formed to study the solar issue, the community solar issue. I want.

D

Everyone to know that no decisions were made when that committee. It was an informational committee.

D

To provide the commissioners with more information on community solar, but I just feel it's proper.

D

That I recuse myself from any discussion on this topic. Thank you for that. Okay, all right.

AW

So at your june 7th meeting we came to and briefed you on the board of county commissioner's proposal.

AW

To remove from the zoning code section 158 153e, which is community solar in the agricultural zone,.

AW

And I'll note that community solar is allowed in the industrial zones, some of.

AW

The commercial zones and employment campus and this action, if it was removed, would not.

AW

Affect those zones or what is allowed in them in regard to community solar.

AW

So, as required by the county code, we are requesting the commission to specifically.

AW

Provide a recommendation to the board regarding their proposal to remove that section of the code.

AW

um And I also want to note that the board did request the county attorney's office to.

AW

Schedule a public hearing to remove that section of the code and it will be held on july 13th at 9.

AW

A.M in room 311 and it was published in the carroll county times on june 15th and will.

AW

Be published again on the 22nd, so today the only thing we we're requesting you to make a.

AW

Recommendation today, because that public hearing is already scheduled- and we want to be sure that.

AW

Your recommendation is considered by the board either prior to or as part of that, public hearing.

AW

So the only item that we actually need- a recommendation from you on is whether to.

AW

Support that removal, or to recommend that they retain and refine the requirements that are.

AW

Currently, in the code and secretary heim, provided you with um some recommended motions to consider.

AW

If for those actions, if the commission desires to also to make a recommendation to retain and refine.

AW

Those requirements, rather than remove them, this would be brought back to the commission after the.

AW

Board made such a decision to go that direction and then it would be discussed at that point. So we.

AW

Don't need to talk about details today of how it would be refined or what the requirements would or.

AW

Should be because we just need the recommendation to support the removal or retain and refine the.

AW

Requirements also, if the commission desires to make a recommendation on grandfather and you can.

AW

Do that today, as well and secretary hein, also provided you with some recommended motions to.

AW

Consider for that, the board has not mentioned grandfathering in the proposed ordinance for.

AW

The public hearing, so those are just the things I wanted to cover with you again before you had.

AW

Any discussion what your recommendation would be. Do you have any questions before your discussion.

B

B

um Should we do public comment first? Yes,.

R

Sure, yes, I see there's quite a few people still remaining, so I assume the maybe for this. If.

B

You would like to make a comment: please come to the microphone state, your name and your address.

B

And you do have a three minute: timer I'll make it quick, because I don't want to have anything to do.

AX

With what happened in this room this morning, what a fiasco that was my name is terry smack I live.

AX

At 3775 aaron jacob drive tony town maryland. My significant other jack hayden was not able to be.

AX

Here today, because of previous engagement, but we will be in attendance on the july 13th meeting.

AX

As I've stated many times in this room, I do not believe solar belongs on any viable agricultural.

AX

Land and I'm going to repeat it again what I said in this room from the first meeting.

AX

Follow the money, I believe that something down deep is going on.

AX

And I don't like it and there's a few people in this room that feel the same way.

AX

And I hope that all of you that are sitting there listen to us today and understand.

AX

That we are living in communities where we know farmers have farmed the land, and this.

AX

Is what our county belongs to be farmland? You have plenty of commercial buildings.

AX

And property that solar can go on, there is no reason to put it on viable agricultural land.

AX

And I believe that the constituents in the community of carroll county have voiced their.

AX

Opinion, I hope that you will listen to us and understand that I have sat in this room many times.

AX

And I am and can't believe I'm standing here again having to plea and make the same comments.

AX

I feel like they're, going on deaf ear. I thought I understood that we had a four to one.

AX

Why we're standing here again, I don't know, I'm not smart enough. I guess to be a commissioner or to.

AX

Sit on any of these committees, but what I do know is that moosa people that are not being paid don't.

AX

Want solar on farmland- and I hope that you all will agree with us. Thank you and have a great day.

B

Foreign, if I could for just a second just to answer um the question about why we're here and and.

I

So on is it's a matter of county code. Is that if the commissioners board of county.

I

Commissioners wish to make a change to the zoning code, which this would be a change to.

I

The zoning code, it's required, that they send it to the to you wall, the planning and zoning.

I

Commission for a recommendation, so yes, the board of county commissioners, voted 4-1 to to offer the.

I

um The recommendation of removing that section of code- and they have sent it to you as a matter.

I

Of law for you to then provide a a comment back the board of county commissioners when.

I

They receive that in the comment from you. They can follow it and they can ignore it.

I

They can do anything they wish to it, but it's required by law that they consult.

I

With you for your opinion on this matter, so that's why we're going through this process.

B

B

Did somebody want to speak.

AY

Hello, my name is annette fleischel. I live at 1401, danny dorsey road. I think a lot of people in this.

AY

Room know me: my friends are here: my community is here. Mr hein knows me and I'm just going to start.

AY

With what I prepared to say- and I really don't appreciate the three-minute mark when the others.

AY

Didn't get a three-minute mark, so I'm just letting you know. I timed mine and it's three minutes, but.

AY

It didn't include this little introduction. Okay, so I live at 1401, fanny, dorsey road. It's a 50.

AY

Acre farm directly across the road from the very first proposed community, solar generating facility.

AY

It was prevented for uh it was at development review over a year ago on may 23 2022. It's called.

AY

Spring valley, solar, it was the beginning of my 14-month battle against the permitting of solar.

AY

Panels on valuable and productive agricultural land, it is finally coming to an end. I hope.

AY

But not before another agricultural facility was located just 0.6 miles down from me on fanny.

AY

Dorsey road between the may date and november, there were six more so that's six facilities in.

AY

Six months that were that were proposed, I speak dot just for myself, but for the greater majority.

AY

Of carroll county residents who object to solar on agricultural land, we have been to every commission.

AY

Or meeting every town meeting, every community meeting we've been to meetings with the energy.

AY

Companies we've we've done, we've done our job. We have voiced for everyone how solar panels do not.

AY

Belong on carroll, county and ag land, we have researched solar energy. We have sent numerous.

AY

Articles and documents to the commissioners for their educational review and had petitions.

AY

Signed in all of our communities against solar panels in ag land, why? Because most people move.

AY

To carroll county to stay in carroll county, not for its industry, not for its solar but for its.

AY

Ag land for its open spaces and for its small communities first and foremost, my message today.

AY

Is to recognize the four county commissioners that believed us the form this is mike joe kenny.

AY

And tom gordon here who listen to us who spoke with the residents in carroll county, who believed.

AY

That our commitment to keeping agricultural viable and thriving could not exist without.

AY

The complete renewal removal of the troublesome and poorly written county code 158-153, which.

AY

You're considering right now, I thank these gentlemen for the 99 percent of carroll county.

AY

That opposes solar on agland, another side, cheryl boss and myself were unlucky enough.

AY

To be asked to participate in what I call the kangaroo work group led by kristen and brenda.

AY

They we were outnumbered by eight other county officials that were there in the room with us.

AY

They developed outlines and agendas, which was very well very well done very well presented.

AY

But the final report from chris after we spend four six hour sessions discussing the prey that.

AY

The cons and the pros of it was to allow solar on ag land and also to allow grandfathering.

AY

The two premises that we hold dear, so this was against what the carroll county residents want.

AY

um It was obvious during our discussions that our differences were unreconcilable. There could.

AY

Be no overall compromise. The removal of the entire code was the only correct in the legitimate answer.

AY

And that was the result that the commissioners came to the very premise of putting solar and.

AY

Ag remainders puts agriculture and residential zones adjacent to each other. There can be no.

AY

Solar in a residential community- so we'll say it again: solar is industrial. It belongs in an.

AY

Industry or a commercial second, the removal of the code is necessary and it's justified.

AY

Third, there can be no grandfather in the projects that haven't really put the shovel in the ground.

AY

And no further projects initiated in agland for the landowners. It is all about the money.

AY

It's all about the obscene amounts of money that are involved in putting solar on your ag.

AY

Land- and you want some figures, you can ask me personally, because I get letters all the time.

AY

Because I have a 50 acre farm and could put solar on it. If I wanted. Thank you. [Applause].

P

AZ

um Hi, my name is mark hamilton. I reside at 981, fanny, dorsey, road, sykesville, maryland and.

AZ

I agree with everything that annette and terry has spoke to and annette was referring to me.

AZ

As the other site, that's 0.6 tenths of a mile down the road from her um where I am.

AZ

After this, after this um 158 153e in may of 2021 was chained was passed through, it didn't take any.

AZ

Consideration when they passed us that okay, they say you got to be 40 foot inside the property line.

AZ

Of the site, okay, well 40, foot inside the property line- that's that's one thing, but.

AZ

They don't take in consideration. How far are you from my property line? How far are you from.

AZ

The front front door of my house so as it is they're proposing to put 15 to 17 acre.

AZ

Solar complex across the street from me, 252 foot from my front door.

AZ

And that's that's something you really want to. Would you like to look at that every day.

AZ

Stand come right out to your front, porch and and see that right in front of you. I.

AZ

Mean I'm probably out of all these sites that are proposed in this county, I'm probably the worst one.

AZ

I'm probably getting the worst slap in the face from this to let you know what what that would be.

AZ

um It's just no, no setback; no, they didn't give any setback to existing residents. Their.

AZ

Their houses, their property lines, 40 foot inside the property line, was the only the.

AZ

Only setback on their property that doesn't make any sense and that side of the road.

AZ

Is zoned agricultural, my side of the road and, and that is 66 and a half feet from the agricultural.

AZ

Property line that runs along their property to the other side of the road 66 and a half feet.

AZ

My residential property line, I mean it, doesn't make any sense to put a site like in my case in.

AZ

My neighborhood in a residential, neighborhood and there's other people here that are.

AZ

Adjoining that lot on the other side of the road from me. But that's me being adjacent.

AZ

From them and not enjoying their property, but it just doesn't, uh it just doesn't add up to.

AZ

Put something like this in a red: it's basically, it's a residential neighborhood. I've lived here.

AZ

Since 1985. so you're third, I'm 38 years living there and I'm not planning on going anywhere else.

AZ

You know at my age I don't want to go anywhere else, but to have something like this.

AZ

Just easily slide by because they put that amendment in there two years ago,.

AZ

And now they want to modify, they want to change it, and I'm with the four commissioners that.

AZ

Support me and everyone else in this room in throwing that amendment out.

AZ

You know they've had these work group meetings, they want to try to come to some kind of a.

AZ

Reasonable way to figure out how you can make solar work on ag land well, that didn't seem.

AZ

To me, like I've got anywhere in these four long days, they had these meetings to try to.

AZ

And eliminate, what's going on with this, though um easiest thing to do: cancel cancel 158, 153 e.

AZ

Completely and that that's it's just not affecting me, it's affecting everybody else.

AZ

In this room, plus people that couldn't come here today because they work, I'm retired, so my time.

AZ

Is very flexible but there's a lot of people they just can't afford to take off from work.

AZ

To go to these meetings during the day you know, but uh in my case that's where I stand and.

AZ

I went through all I just like these two. I went to all these meetings. Commissioners meetings spoke.

AZ

Went to the moratorium meeting and spoke by speaking, I'm speaking more in public now than.

AZ

I ever have in my whole life, oh, but uh I I wanted to come here today and speak before.

AZ

You you're, you know the planning and zoning board and let you know um what what's going on in my.

AZ

Case and where this is at and and just to show you, uh it was just it um honestly. I hate to say.

AZ

The word idiotic thing to do is to pass that with just a 40 foot inside the property line.

AZ

um Regulation and not taking consideration how it's going to affect anybody else.

AZ

um Outside of that property line and they're close proximity to this being built, thank you. Thank you.

BA

My name is sandy roberts, I'm at 6571 just on a court in sykesville, I'm right on the.

BA

Other side, my backyard would be looking right at the solar project. That mark was just describing.

BA

um I don't have a prepared speech because I honestly wasn't aware that we could speak today.

BA

So I'm just speaking from my heart today, I've also been to all of the meetings we're tired.

BA

I'm going to be honest, we're tired. We thought that we had finally beat this with the commissioner's.

BA

Vote four to one and thank you from the bottom of our hearts to commissioners who voted that.

BA

Way because we know that you were looking out for the interests of carroll county, we came out of the.

BA

Hearing in droves, in numbers, the room was packed standing room only people who opposed the solar.

BA

On agricultural land, there are other counties: howard county is putting solar on school rooftops.

BA

They are putting it in parking garage. If you go to the mall in howard county, the top level of the.

BA

Parking garage has solar panels all over it that cars literally park underneath of there are plenty.

BA

Of places in carroll county that, in our industrial commercial, to put these solar panels without.

BA

Putting them on agricultural property that is currently farmed, the fields that we're referring.

BA

To have been farmed forever, the farmer was out there just yesterday doing the fertilization.

BA

Behind our house on the crops back there, the farming is it's a livelihood here in carroll.

BA

County, the other thing I wanted to note is: there's a website called informed carrollcounty.com on.

BA

Which it is stated that in hampstead in carroll county, we have the largest rooftop solar.

BA

Solar facility in all of the united states, so there are arguments that the state may come.

BA

In and mandate that we're not doing enough as a county, and it's almost like a threat like we got.

BA

To get this, uh this farmland used in this way so that the state doesn't come in and mandate.

BA

That it has to be even larger, or we have to put it on our agricultural land. We are already doing.

BA

Plenty as a county, if you look at this solar rooftop project in hampstead, which, according.

BA

To the website, powers, 1, 300 homes and subscribers in carroll county, and we are moving forward with.

BA

Solar just not on agricultural land, so I just ask that we do throw out the amendment that allowed.

BA

This, the other thing I just have to say, is when they put the work groups together, we were under.

BA

The impression that it was just to present to the commissioners how the how the people of carroll.

BA

County felt about this from the work group having two sides pro and against solar on the committee.

BA

And then we were devastated to see that there were staff recommendations on what should be.

BA

Done and it was pro-solar, it was pro-solar on ag land from the staff recommendations which.

BA

Felt like a slap in the face to the people that sat on the work group committee. For I don't know.

BA

How many hours for weeks trying to hash this out and that wasn't what we thought? The purpose of.

BA

The work group committees were- and that's really all I have to say just to please consider other.

BA

Places in the commercial and industrial areas to put the solar, not enough, is known about huge.

BA

Solar farms adjacent to homes to know what it will do to our wells and wildlife and.

BA

Everything else that's affected ground, runoff water, all of it. Thank you very much. Thank you.

BA

AL

Yes, I'm caroline lowe of 900 hoods mill, road woodbine. I have a 95 acre farm and my.

AL

Husband farms it and there was a proposed solar farm just down the road from ours.

AL

um So I just want to say that I want to thank the commissioners, the four to the four to one vote in.

AL

Supporting us for this, we were serious enough. We've been to all the meetings and uh we were.

AL

Serious enough to hire an attorney to help us through this, and and we really appreciate the.

AL

Commissioners, revisiting this and and helping us out with this, because before the election.

AL

It was on deaf ears um and I am opposed to grandfathering the sin. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Yes, any anybody else before I close it out: okay, seeing none okay,.

B

The jan I'd like to say something: yes and you know we're bumping up on two o'clock and.

G

I do have a j job, just in case anybody's, wondering um yeah when someone uses the word nefarious and.

G

Your front you're, it's cool, you can use whatever word you want. I I just need to say something.

G

Because I was one of the people up here who voted for this initially uh they're, two of us who remain.

G

um I believe strongly that the code should reflect the county and what the county wants.

G

And this is a good. I think example of you know the commissioners and us listening to to.

G

The citizens and reacting to it, the truth is, is I'm not opposed to solar? I'm not.

G

I'm really looking at you know my next car being electric and putting solar in my home.

G

I do like the way our canon looks and I like the fact that we have an ag program. I do think we.

G

Could do some things better about it, but again I don't mean to preach I'll. Just simply say.

G

I was in favor of solar. I am also in favor of the the code reflecting what we collectively.

G

As a county think- and um I know most of us are property rights people up here and this.

G

Is a right that we're going to be taking away from people, I mean believe it or not. There are.

G

People who want to to be able to use dormant farmland and get revenue from what they're not.

G

Farming or maybe it's not yielding what it used to yield and they were fine putting solar on it.

G

And so we're taking away a right when we do this and um and that's not something that I think we as.

G

A commission take lightly um and y'all are asking us to do that, to take away someone's right to do.

G

Something that we granted, I be it for a short period of time, so you know I'm I just I need to.

G

Take a breath, I just want to say one when someone uses the word nefarious on my hair, the hair on my.

G

Neck kind of stands up because you know I'm not kissing babies, I'm not kissing rings. I do.

G

This because I want to make our county- and I think most of us do want to make a county a better place.

G

um I hear what you're saying and I hope we listen to other people when they they talk about this.

G

Because again, I think you know when we, when we band together and live in a certain community, the.

G

Regulations ought to reflect what our community thinks and and what we want our community to be.

G

You know a vision of that, and so you know with the election, we've obviously had a change of heart.

G

um I voted for it. I thought the regulation was a decent regulation, but again I'm not I'm not.

G

Opposed to taking this off the books, and so it was one of the guys who voted for it. I just.

G

Wanted to say it out loud, I'm I'm fine with doing this, um even though we're taking away a right.

E

um If this goes into effect, what happened? Originally, we had remainders that you could.

E

You know because they can't really farm it. That much would that, would that still be there yeah.

E

The remainders, no so the the specific chapter of code, we're talking about 158 153, is section.

I

E, it was specific to what remaining portions and putting commercial solar on remaining proportions.

E

No exceptions; no! No! Okay. The other concern I have is the the one two three four five, six, seven, seven.

E

People that have already put.

E

Money and time.

E

And they're not going to be grandfathered in either correct, so the county commissioners have.

I

Not weighed in on that yet so typically, what happens when there is a code change like this.

I

um The the commissioners will determine if they wish to grandfather any projects that are in.

I

Process the commissioners have not discussed that, so I don't want to speak for them, but.

I

um I I think I would be. I could say that with the way they have voted and.

I

The impetus for these changes, I doubt that they are going to grandfather the projects.

I

That are in process, but I that is for them to to make a decision on.

E

I'm not opposed to the change, I'm just concerned about the grandfathering and the idea that there's.

E

These remainders out there that they can't really do much with anyhow and why not use it.

E

To put solar in it, there's not that many, but you know that's it. I'm done well yeah. That was the.

F

I I think that was the confusion right from the beginning was. This was about remainders.

F

And the reporting and the newspapers, the you know all that just agriculture on everybody, whoa.

F

um You know I'm with pete I I uh voted in favor of this. Initially, I think technology is here.

F

You read all about the power grid, potential failures, costs, etc, etc. There's no nobody's.

F

Getting any payola for saying, hey, solarcity, go put a thing over here and you know whatever.

F

Just doesn't happen uh so I think there's some danger here to ignore the future.

F

uh That said, technology can change. Those panels can turn into the size of janet's laptop.

F

Eventually- and maybe this will get revisited, but can't ignore the outcry from the community against.

F

The solar, uh but I just wished the reporting and the conversations were really more centered on.

F

What it really what what what the code was changed to about the residuals and residuals the way I.

F

Understood it understand it, I'm not. A farmer uh was pretty much land that the farming community.

F

Couldn't farm couldn't use so why not, let them know a portion of the ground and then you're only.

B

Allowed so much of the egg, and the remainder is that portion, so it can be so it can be.

F

I'm still learning good okay, so anyway, I um I I do agree that we we need to um take this off.

F

The off the books- and I agree with what chris just said too about you- know, reading all the.

F

Comments from the commissioners- and you know this is an emotional issue um and I I just don't think.

F

There's probably going to be any chance that the the commissioners would grandfather anything.

F

That's in process process so is their call there. There is going to be a meeting july 13th that of.

B

Course, the commissioners, I think commissioner guerin said that um he would like to see it.

B

And it's you all decided to move forward with that. Our charge today is to go with the emotion we can.

B

You know put forth chris gave us several options. We can put forth to grandfathered in ultimately.

B

It's the commissioners which will have another vote. I assume after they've had their meetings.

B

So um you know I I still have heartburn over. um I respect the I don't get to vote so thankfully,.

B

But I respect the fact of I don't know that I would want to look out my front door. Fortunately,.

B

I'm in a spot where everybody's developed all around me, so I.

B

Don't have that I just get to see the lovely solar panels on people's roofs.

B

But um you know, but I also respect the fact that um there are some that have wished to move forward.

B

Already have um can, even though it's maryland's a shovel-ready state. We also know that there is.

B

um Many avenues people can take and they've already got a significant amount of dollars.

B

Invested because that was their property right. So can I make a comment to that? Please.

AX

The statement that people have put money invested into it into the property, the owners of the.

AX

Property have not put the money into it. It's been the solar companies that have invested the money.

AX

So it's people who are not living in our community who don't care about our community and won't be.

AX

Here, when the 25 years is up to recoup and to clean up the mess, so no one in the county has.

AX

Invested the money into their farm, it has been the companies that are all outside of our area and out.

AX

Of our state actually who have invested the money, so I just want that on record to make it extremely.

AX

Clear, yes, thank you for that, and I understand that I guess when I said property rights, I was.

B

Referring to the farmers that will get income from that, so that's a decision that they have made as.

B

Part as doing something with their community, I think um supposed to come up and talk to everybody.

AY

The ones that are right now under the landowners have said we want to put solar, they are landowners.

AY

None of them farm their own land, they are all being farmed by our county farmers, 20 acres.

AY

Here, 40 acres here, 60 acres; here they augment the farmer who can't survive a living off of his 100.

AY

Or 200, or maybe even if he's lucky more than 200 acre farms. So you need to know that and absolutely.

AY

Terry is right: you can make up to eighty thousand dollars for 120 acre parcel on your remainder.

AY

If you do that as a landowner per year annually for the 25 years that you run into that contract,.

AY

That is the money that the solar companies have. I just need to tell you that what's true, okay,.

F

Thank you. Thank you. I understand. Thank you, okay. um I think we need a motion. Emotion, yes,.

F

um I'll make a motion that we.

F

Wouldn't have it.

F

I move that the beginning and zoning commission support the board of county.

F

Commissioner's proposal to remove section 158 .153e from the county code.

B

Hey there's no shouldn't. Oh second, okay, there's a motion and a second.

B

um Mr robertson is three accusing himself so um all in favor bye, any opposed.

B

Okay, um stephen did you. I said I okay, okay, so the motion carries.

B

All right, so um our next meeting will be tuesday july 18th. Here in this room, I will.

B

Entertain a motion to adjourn, I make a motion. We adjourn. Second, all in favor, that's unanimous.