Carroll County, MD FY 20 Carroll County Government Budget Process, 9 Apr 2019

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From YouTube: FY20 Proposed Budget Work Session ~ Afternoon of April 9, 2019

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A

Okay, good afternoon, we are back for this afternoon session in reference to budget.

A

And all things therein- and there was a request this morning for specifically.

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Commissioner rothstein, to get into some specifics on the water as a result of.

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That a panel was created so so I'll turn it over to you guys and when we have. If.

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If you want to go with this, we'll go with, if we can insert questions serve.

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What do you mean? Basically, three questions were asked: okay,.

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What rates were recommended, what rates were adopted and what impact there has.

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Been the gap when and if there was a gap over the last three to five years in the.

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Hour and a half but staff had to put it together, we can answer two of those.

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Three questions very clearly: one would take a lot more research and I'll.

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Explain we can tell you what record what rates were recommended and we can tell.

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You what the impact of not doing rates rate increases, could be going forward.

B

Can't tell you very easily or at all really what rates were requested over.

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The last several years, because we sort of we recommend there- are no, what rates.

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Were actually adopted over the last several years because when we get.

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Whatever the adopted rates are they're plugged into the system, and we make.

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Since and move forward, so that would take a little research and development.

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But we can tell you what rates were recommended and what was what would.

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What's not done and what won't be done in so with that I'll turn it over to.

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Either robert sir commissioners of distributed a list of last several.

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Fiscal years going back to fiscal year, 14 as roberta mentioned, I split it down.

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Between water and sewer and shared what basically, the calculated and recommended.

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Rate increase was so the process of determining what rate were calculating.

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And recommending you know trying to capture all of the costs of operating as.

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Well, as capital investment for a long-term capital replacement plan over.

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40 years is what we plan for. We lay out all those projects about how much is.

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Needed annually in order to meet that need, and that's how we calculate it, it.

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Comes up with a number that we call the net revenue required, so the amount of.

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Dollars we need to bring in through rates, as shown there. I've broken it out.

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Between operating and capital, the message of what I'm saying is that the.

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Pressure on the rates that drives them up, particularly over the last several.

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Years is is on the operating side and jeff, and public works can address that.

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There's some some pressure on the cost side to operate. What happens, though, is.

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If we don't keep up with the rate increase, that's driven by operating is.

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We bring in then a certain set of dollars, less than then was calculated to.

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Be needed over time and those dollars get made up by essentially reassigning.

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Capital investment dollars into operating the operating is happening. We.

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Must spend those dollars to operate the system? What we're going to take away.

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From his long term, capital investment so basically.

C

14 15 16 17, I'm kind of laid out in 18. The system was in pretty good balance.

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And we didn't have a recommended rate increase, the dollars were being.

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Generated to cover the operating and the capital as of fiscal year 18 then.

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Through 19 and projected into 20, we've got about eight hundred thousand and.

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Combined operating income increases between eighteen and twenty by not.

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Adopting the eight percent and three and three point: six percent increase in.

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Water and sewer in nineteen, what that means is in nineteen we brought in the.

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Same dollars as eighteen, so you kind of start with that baseline. We're current.

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At rates right now through eighteen, but not adopting in nineteen, we brought in.

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That same number of dollars and had some impact talked about, and so we move into.

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Twenty the same calculation of the full cost and the full investment that we're.

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Recommending would have us for twenty at a rate increase calculated at fifteen.

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Point two percent and three point: four percent for sewer.

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The the recommendation is to spread that we've done some projections of costs.

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Over the next three years, twenty to twenty to see less pressure in 21. That.

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Was the recommendation to smooth smooth the rate so 8% over really either two or.

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Three years gets us there. The idea is, if we were doing year by year, my.

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Recommendation would be for fifteen percent rate increase in water to get.

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Back to the proper amount of investment in capital, so right now heading into 20.

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Without a rate, increase would be about $900,000 short in the capital.

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Contribution that that we see as necessary out over 30 to 40 years, that's.

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What the the rate increase generates is the dollars to make that up.

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So it's it's not easy. Talking about rates rates are the result of the budget.

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And the capturing of costs, the rate is, you know, a tiered system, and I know it.

C

Gets hard you want to talk about percentages and rates, and you can kind.

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Of lose it there, so I kind of put it into dollars the dollars that need to.

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Come in through rates is what will determine what those rates are. So one.

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Turnover jeff public works talked a little bit about what the impact has.

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Been in the current year 19 and what it means heading forward in 20 and beyond.

E

All right, thank you, rob yep. As rob stated, we've had a lot of operational.

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Costs that have been increasing over the years we- and this goes from the.

E

Treatment of our wastewater, the purchase of water, maintenance of our water tanks.

E

Water systems, sewage collection systems- these continue continue to go up costs.

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Continue to go up, inflation happen over the last few years. Metal clasps have.

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Gone up and every one of our pumps grinders in our sewage system, every one.

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Of our pumps needed for any of our water systems continuously built are going up.

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At 10 plus percent per year, every time we go to just do regular maintenance of.

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Our infrastructure we're at a point now with these rates, that all capital.

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Projects that aren't fully funded will now be permanent will be put on hold.

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Until they're gonna be moved down the line, so we have upgrades, we have.

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Projects that we that we have in the books that fy 20 we're getting to at.

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This point: where some products may be funded, we will have to stop those funds.

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We will not have enough funds to operate that we are moving to a critical.

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Operational needs, we have to sit back and every one of our water treatment.

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Facilities has to treat water and mediate epa and.

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Regulations we have to get that water to people's residences and through the.

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Meters, we have to collect the sewage for anybody. That's on our sewage system. We.

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Have to treat it and meet all mbean epa regulations and we have to do whatever.

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Is needed within our systems to make sure we have any projects possible to.

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Reduce the chance of a failure or backup or something that is, that could result.

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In fines, if something starts flowing from where it shouldn't be flowing from.

B

Yes, so let me give having andy talk about a few of the projects that just to.

E

Give an example of where we are with moving forward to sticking the critical.

E

Capital or operational needs, gentlemen, fy 19 without the rate increase, and we.

F

We had a scale back three separate capital projects that were identified.

F

The water meeting water meter budget was scaled back by a factor of about 1/2, so.

F

Instead of installing budgeted allotment of budgeted for me in a lot of a.

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Thousand five hundred meters, and, as you know, older meters are don't read as well.

F

As the news current smart meters to so, we were basically lose losing influence.

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Of revenue with the old-style meters, the fire item program was scaled back with.

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100 percent, so we were falling behind in upgrading our fire hydrants of basics to.

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To up to meet current standards, they still function, but but there is a public.

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Safety issue associated with them. We have about three years left of our other.

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Programs to make all all meters consistently be.

F

F

We also scaled back in the water service line replacement program by a factor of.

F

1/2 and as we thought about last week, that's where the bulk about our leaks.

F

Are now 5, so we instead of spending about 300 and I'm sorry $268,000 and.

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That enough 119, we scaled that to approximate 135 in fy 2020 capital.

F

Projects that are funded by idea by the by the planned fy 24mm for critical.

F

Examples of those will have to be scaled back or stopped temporarily or again. The.

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Fire hydrant program, the republic safety issues associated with that. A second.

F

Example of the sykesville maryland 8051 water and sewer with mainlining.

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Projects we simply handful can't move forward with that on a parcel basis, a.

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Third critical part, part of our our skill to work or the grinder pump.

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Upgrades to our pumping stations and as you are likely to where there's a.

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Critical issue with whites being sent throughout our our sanitary system.

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Causing major clogs and so forth, the grinding program breaks apart, we'll put.

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Quite a bit of the white issues prior to reaching the more expensive pumps that.

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Send me uh evan luther's with the wastewater stream, so the grinder program.

F

That is a critical part of our other great project and the third, I'm sorry.

G

The the the fourth example I'm going to talk about more detail at the north.

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Pumping station, which is a brand new pump station on the id, a property in the.

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Hampstead area, that's going to replace the existing north north of pump station.

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That's located on the maryland and hampstead it's closely tied into the.

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Improvements plan for the forgetting id a property itself, where we are basically.

F

Grouping that pumping station with a supper plan pumping station to stop.

E

These rates are, as rob stated, a result of operational cost and operational.

E

Increases have happened over the years, you know taking last year's.

E

No increase, I mean that just that put additional pressure on it under this.

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Year's budget we're trying to smooth that, at least for the next two to three.

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Years with with the rates as adopting this as a three-year program, but we are.

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You know we've slowed down or made some adjustments as we need it, but at this.

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Point now for projects, we went from scaling back a couple of them. We don't.

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Have the ability to scale back these will just no longer be funded until.

E

Other funds are able to come in.

A

Okay, any questions from my colleagues mr. rothstein. I know this. This was your.

A

Request, so do you have anything to pursue here? Anybody have any more.

A

Questions while we happen experts in front of us, the rate increases last year.

H

It says: hey, there was none and he's proposed rate increase. Are these actual.

H

Rate increases that occurred. These were the recommended that was served last.

C

Year 8.2 was recommended and not adopted yeah prior year. This point team. I know.

C

It was always a tricky when you talk about budget years, so we're talking.

C

About calculated rates for 20 this year last year calculate rates for fiscal.

C

Year, 1982 not adopted fiscal year 18 at that point, doing year-over-year.

C

Projections of budget and rates that was recommended for no rate increase. Okay, so.

C

It's the pressure is built in a short period of time and that's what happens.

C

When specifically operating pressures happen in a short period, not.

C

I mean fy, 17 7% was what's recommended and in talking about, we weren't sure.

C

Possibly slightly less than that might have been done so, in the end, the true.

C

Rate is not a percent, so I can calculate a recommended rate and during that.

F

Process we calculate what that percent is on someone's bill, but once we adopt.

C

Them I kind of don't go back and do all that work. It's not at that point. You've.

C

Adopted them and we put them into place and we adjust forward and just like you.

C

Knew in the budget process each year is it time to reevaluate.

C

Make a new recommendation going forward. That's what we're doing this year! That's.

C

What we did at 19 just didn't see the pressures there in that year. Okay, it's.

I

Just an truth question: well I mean I'd be lying. If I told you I understood all.

H

This cuz, I don't it's still not. I mean.

H

I'm trying to understand this and simply put the who. What when, where why, if I let.

C

Me just sum up, I was thinking well, while jeff was talking the biggest impact to.

D

Me yet I see again if we don't keep up rate increases so in the utilities, fun.

C

Unlike in the general fund, the same rate will produce pretty much the same.

C

Revenue revenues don't grow if the rate doesn't grow. It's not like your tax rate.

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You leave it the same and you get some natural growth. It doesn't happen in.

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Utility, the same rate produces the same revenue assuming consumption stays.

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Fairly level the so when operating costs rise, the same rain will produce the same.

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Total revenue we will move capital to cover operating as operating is.

C

Happening this year, the cash is going out the door part of our long-term.

C

Planning is right now calling for about 3.4 million or so to go toward long-term.

C

Capital, investment in the system, repair and replacement of water sewer lines.

C

Pumping stations and other equipment right now coming into 20, with no rate.

C

Increase would be about $900,000 short in that we'd only generated about two.

C

And a half million in capital instead of 3.4 million, and while that sounds good.

C

On a short-term basis, we're going out 30 or 40 years so over the next decade, we.

C

Need to bring in about thirty four million dollars the capital investment. At this rate, it would only bring in about 25 it'd, be.

C

Nine hundred nine million dollars short over ten years. So that's how it starts.

C

To compound over 20 years over 30, if we don't keep up we're, not bringing in.

C

Enough dollars for our projections of capital investment, that's really where.

C

It hits in the short-term one year, not doing a rate doesn't have a huge impact.

C

But if we're not keeping up in general or tens of millions of dollars short in.

C

The long term, in a great example that came up, we were meeting I've gradually.

E

Came up for that, so freddie goes to somebody who around us, but you know if.

E

You don't fund in the general fund, you don't fund a library project, five, ten.

E

Years down the road, there's, no catastrophic change in opera and what.

E

Goes on if the library still isn't there, you don't find you know that's somewhere.

E

Funding in an enterprise fund and within utilities, five years down, the road.

E

Without that that money billion in these countless capital project for these.

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Capital projects it will result in there will be there's going to be failures. The.

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System is aging every single day, our pumps for aging our system or proper.

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Every one of our pump stations, our treatment, all of our treatment.

E

Facilities in a very toxic environment there there's a tier rating day by day.

E

It is not a matter of you know: yeah, it's bling. Are there other ways we're getting.

H

Weapon it for these capital projects outside of raising rates, so rarely.

C

Talked about the operating rates here in the operating rates heavily primarily.

C

Replace existing as we call it repair replace, rehabilitate existing.

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Infrastructure right so there's other revenues that pay for other parts of the.

C

System, this isn't the entire okay entire thing, but this is exists. These are.

H

Things already in place already in operation, those other revenues, female.

H

Offset some of this or no no, there is primarily growth.

E

So if this growth of the system, I'll use hampstead as an example ham, says.

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Wastewater treatment plant is designed to treat 900,000 gallons there's a point.

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The whole whole system will go to 1.1 million gallons. Okay, that increase will.

E

Be paid for by eric redemption charges, as that comes in that money's put aside.

E

For that expansion project, what does not go to any? It's? Not there.

E

To replace update a current infrastructure component connection.

H

Charges you're not part of this correct. Okay, how many total in the county are.

H

Using water tool right now, customers.

H

About 80% of them were counted district. I write this book yeah.

H

Okay, everybody understands us, I think I've referenced this before and with all.

A

Due respect, my first budget in 2014 was the classic deer-in-the-headlights when.

A

It came to specific issues and I don't be specific but overall for me and I'll.

A

Be very honest, so it's taken it's taken a while to absorb them so yeah. I respect.

A

The fact that you're questioning these things, because that's clearly the way.

A

The path deer you need to see to get a better overall understanding of what it.

A

Means we don't do this and again I I respect that. I'm going to my questions.

A

So- and we saw that over this three years, what yes more so in the first year, you.

I

Know, like you said, deer in the headlights now, all of a sudden, that's in.

I

Understanding you, if we kept further and further behind it, just gets worse and.

H

Worse but process, I think the concern is.

H

Decisions made in the past that are causing us to make these tougher.

H

Decisions today and whether through this or it, hurts like okay, what's the next.

H

One- and I think this gets us out three four years or how far is your skin his.

H

Own we looked at this room based off the question. You know we looked at this as a.

E

Way to smooth the rates provide a three year rating free, you know three-year.

E

Rate program looking at and we ran this discussion alerted a really after year.

E

To we've kind of made up for past some past decisions, but after your three base.

E

It really falls on to under what the average is for the first couple.

E

Years, right, yeah, if we do nothing you're, saying we're.

H

Gonna be about $90,000 short next year and that's getting compounded over time.

H

For some of those projects that will then not be worked on is like 851 and.

H

You said hampstead, and this was an example, but this is the whole. No, I mean.

H

Gave just examples of of the 20 25 projects that would have funding this.

E

Upcoming year, is it fair to say, with a percent increase a typical water bill.

H

You know that a customer would seek, let's just say: 200 bucks.

H

Does that good for you, this half this, aren't you show me the water bill.

H

So folks, fourth quarter, it would be an increase of what on the water. So it's.

E

About it's ten cents a day on the water, just water alone, it's ten cents a day or.

E

Eight dollars and realism, eight dollars and five cents per quarter. That's based.

E

Off just a twelve thousand, an average user of ten to twelve thousand gallons.

E

On an average for an average family, so six packs of ipa or twelve. There is a.

I

Way to reduce your water bill right, you can conserve water and not use that.

I

12,000 gallons and we've been seeing that, over the era's all new development.

C

Everybody has been coming down right: we've been consumption, going down for.

E

The last four eight eight ten years where an average household was 18,000.

E

Gallons a day and a 70 now we're down between the 10 and 12,000 gallons, I'm.

E

G

I'm really what we're looking at are capital projects we're looking at this.

H

The funds to support capital projects that must be done, capital and opera. This.

E

Is capital and operating brain? This is even the fixed cost of operating right.

E

And the capital projects are just associated to do the met. The major.

E

Replacements I'll use a pump station for an example every 10 years, 8 to 10 years.

E

We have to do. We do a rebuild of a new of the pumps right 10 years after that.

E

We have to do a full replacement of those pumps it in someone's over the.

E

Control systems that you know that have to be upgraded every you know every 8 to.

E

10, you know every 10 years we have to do control system upgrade. That is what we.

E

Built in as programs as we're looking at it as we're looking on the you know, as.

E

Ted will be talking about later on about just the infrastructure for the county.

E

Alone with roof replacements or parking lot replacements and road replacements.

E

We had we've done the same here with utilities so because we don't want to.

E

Sit back income five years from now and say by the way I have this large pump.

E

Station that I need four million dollars to rebuild it, because it's we have a 20.

E

24 inch or forced me coming out of it. I need all this all this rebuilt and all.

E

Sudden your rates go up by 40 50 percent.

H

You see eleven thousand years you're saying eleven thousand households.

H

Yes, yeah. Okay, all right any other questions on this. This is shades of last.

A

Year when we set this, there did numbers for long periods of time, and I hope that.

A

Just goes to show you that you have thought that needs to go into these.

A

Decisions because they're they're not easy, so we we appreciate. We appreciate.

A

You guys not eating lunch. You didn't none of you. Ain't lunch today.

A

Right is that correct.

A

Now we appreciate you coming together to get those answers in a timely fashion,.

A

Like that, thank you very much, so thank you have a good afternoon. Thank you.

A

All right with that said, we've changed players here and get back, and I know ted.

A

You've put a couple new sheets in front of us, so I would assume you want to just.

A

Advise on what they are so that we have a idea moving forward here. Well, you all.

J

Wanted some more information on what the 300,000 not carolyn went to this year's.

J

It's just captures that and the other one and they put together, they captured.

J

All the items each of you brought up and just capture here, so you can all refer.

J

Back to me reveals what's thinking at that point: okay,.

A

All right that puts the cotton carol in in perspective, because I really didn't.

A

Know what was what was taken out of that so new ones in front of you? There.

A

Dennis should be overhearing? Yes, yes, no! Yes, next page, very good yeah, we have one.

J

More that are coming, you also painting chair. He had it up on the screen, but you.

J

Wanted printed the history of not carol's cutting and keep in mind as you.

J

Look at this that this is not perfect, because we may have a today a sheriff's.

J

Deputy but we don't know that they're spending all their time on you, but it.

J

Pretty much captures they what we, the intent of choices, that weren't made.

A

Right now we don't know the status of the strength of our funding beyond it's.

H

A start-up cost for the nurse practitioner who's, incurring the cost.

H

After the startup cost for this nurse practitioner, are you looking at this.

J

Okay, well right right now you have approved money for one year for these.

J

Things this is what earlier I said, there are things there that they would like to.

J

Continue so the 300 300 thousand could lead to continuing some of those.

J

Activities then be less available for or less to reduce. If you wanted to take.

J

Some of that money. So when I say you know it's, you had the choice to take. It.

J

Yeah, it's another ones, places where you can still take it, but we would be losing.

J

Out on the opportunity to continue some of those activities that I was gonna.

J

Give you the list of easy choices, but I lost it on purpose. Let's take a half.

A

Hour until ted confine that list, so this data is very helpful to get our minds.

K

Around I appreciated the purchase, call sir and help the poor me. That's not.

H

That's not also poor that other funds that were given to the health department.

H

Is it it's outside the court? Okay,.

L

My guess is a hug 35,000 is ongoing. They start saying. I would like to keep it up.

L

They would like to yeah right now, all right. You have not committed to that.

L

Right so, except for the behavior resource, a health resource guide which.

L

Would be one time and a vehicle purchased, it should be one time.

L

Everything else if they would like to have to see money continued for that.

H

So we wouldn't have to necessarily look with that: okay, so, okay, so we're talking.

H

50 85,000, if I'm a special ed singer, we'll be coming to you guys in a week or.

B

Two with recommendations for going forward. If you choose some of the works.

H

Don't make a decision on any of those? No, no, no, no, no, nothing, not at all that it.

B

But if you choose to continue with the three hundred thousand the first year, I.

B

Mean they, they specifically look for things that were mostly one-time or.

B

Could be done in a limited basis so because.

B

Started typically- and they wanted to use the money by nineteen, and so they they.

B

Have a couple things like the mobile crisis center, which is part of that.

B

Crisis call center etc, along with another program that they hope to roll.

B

Out next year, they use this year's. If the board reduces funding than the.

J

Recommendations to you would have to change or reduces funding recommendation.

H

About the change shouldn't recommendations come before.

H

Decisions of whether were wants to reduce your increase funding. This is.

J

Money that you could choose to decrease. If you make that choice, then they'll.

J

Have to react to it and see we keep running running into this. You know the.

J

Difficulty here is: we you're gonna have to make some choices to change something.

J

If we're gonna balance our plan, none of those choices can be made.

J

Without some negative consequences right so for for every one of these I mean we.

J

In theory can make the argument you know well shouldn't we have presentations on.

J

What this is going to do, but but we can't possibly do it logistically, it.

D

Can't happen now, if there, if there are some small number of things that you.

J

Want to focus on that way. You know we can try to arrange that, but it you know.

J

I think you will find yourself forced to make some choices without as much.

J

Information or debate, as you would like.

A

Okay, any other comments or concerns with the nodding carol specifically do that.

A

If not thoughts and ideas moving forward on how we can get to where we need to.

A

Get to here I knew dennis you were getting ready to. I was getting ready to.

A

Pull the trigger on something before I shut you down.

L

I would think easiest thing to do would be to vote on the sheriff's.

L

Recommendation for the sros he's taking it from 9:00 to 1:00 to 5:00 and that.

L

Would save us some money? You can see that up on the bottom line if we wanted to vote that way. So my motion is to take the sheriff's recommendations for srs.

L

For schools, second, it and money: here's where I know that, yet I'm just trying to.

L

Get some extra money yeah. Thank you. Okay on the money goes we're just want to.

J

Remind you that doesn't create any new money. All that will do is be reduced.

J

Your negative balance, my question came up. Where's the money gonna go just want.

D

To make sure we're not thinking we, we have something and keep it keep in mind.

A

That that these decisions are are not set in stone there for week, we can.

A

Certainly go back and revisit any of these prior to to adopting, so you know.

A

As you make decisions today, if we do get to some and your phone rings off the.

A

Hook for the next 48 hours, you make one come back and make some. Mr. president.

I

Before we vote, I don't you know, there's some money there that it's being.

I

Returned and most of us had the same- the sheriff's disability program. I just.

I

Don't want the money to get lost in the weeds and process like stationery.

J

There's no money to get iii. I understand what you're saying if money is not.

M

Allocated for it hasn't been spent, but it's not even.

I

There that right, it's not there and all it will do, is not going to put you in.

D

Unless some bad position, it doesn't give you a dollar to put anywhere yeah, and I.

F

Should have said this a little bit earlier for commissioners, rothstein and.

J

Boucher we have a lot of stuff built into the computer. So if you say what.

J

Does this look like we've tried to anticipate things that might come up and.

J

A lot of those we could pop in immediately things that we don't have.

J

Depp will do her best to try and give you at least a good approximation of.

J

What the impact would be- and she does a really good job of doing that quickly.

J

And we can do a lot of what-ifs, you know if you yeah, you put this in, they say.

J

Well, what if it was three positions instead of five? You know we can do this.

J

We can bounce back and forth. We want to try and make it as easy as possible for.

J

You to see, if we do this or don't do this, how does it help or hurt us and now.

L

Not balance the operating plan balance up, but that's the with the chairs thing.

L

Taken out right, all right, which one is it out: yeah right down there? Okay, all.

L

Right, what was above it? No no, which is operating plan balance, that's different.

L

Than win each issued right making that change drops you in 25 from 4.0 videos.

L

Before the change gotcha, sorry.

L

Now it's clear so just as we move forward.

A

All right said that was that was that was a motion and second to do that right.

A

Correct yes, sir.

A

All in favor aye.

I

mmm Opposed, okay, so was could could we take.

A

One on that right: did you guys get that got that yeah? Could we actually take two.

I

Million our 20 and move two million ahead each year to balance this out.

I

Well, that two million wouldn't get you two million dollars every year. You can.

J

Only use it one time. No and and that's one of the things that I'm trying to.

J

Discourage us doing what we've been doing in recent years, we've been taking.

J

We have one time money, let's put some here and here and here and I just don't.

J

Believe we can continue doing this without eventually getting into.

J

Difficulties there well, even now, I'd say we're in a difficult situation. Now I.

J

Don't know I mean as we're talking, I don't know how we get out. Of this I mean.

J

We will we have to, I don't know what they said is that does that reflect that.

A

Last vote. He did that already. Okay, you your she is. I look down.

I

We need to get the bottom line to zero or positive okay and everything right.

J

That's the key getting getting that all to zero. Is you say we're making a set of.

J

Choices- and we look out to the future, we believe we can sustain these choices.

H

Okay into the making some of the decisions on the operational cap or is.

H

This kind of just now open and let's have the conversation or whatever yeah.

J

It keeps her interested, I think it's open to wherever you want to go, because.

J

Generally speaking, a decision on the capital side is still gonna have an.

J

Impact all right: okay, where you want to get this right now, not nuts.

H

No, but I needed to get you to the spot. Okay, now! That's really! What do you? What.

J

Do you want to be yep just off the cliffs.

A

He drove us here so now the cars parked and yep. He just left.

I

Now I know I know the answer to this probably, but we can't go across the.

I

Board and just make our point something percent we cut across the book point.

I

Seven percent or something well, you can't sort of ken now. First, let.

J

Me conceptually object yeah, I don't believe in across-the-board cuts because.

J

What it says is every priority is the same and I don't think that's that's.

J

Really true and a practical problem, is you can't cut even if you said, cut.

J

Everything one percent: we can't cut everything one one percent 30. We can't.

F

Say debt service is going to be a percent lower. There are places where you.

J

I would ask: are you truly gonna cut nine-one-one.

J

Cut the sheriff and every time the answer is no, that 1% is growing. Then the.

J

Other thing we run into, we have a lot of budgets that are almost only people and.

J

You can cut them 20%, but you can't cut them 5%, you know. So there are lots of.

J

Put there are reasons not to do that, and there are lots of things that get this.

J

Away but if at some point the board says thanks for your thoughts ted, but we want.

J

To do this any way we can figure out what that would mean and what choices.

J

You would have to make: doesn't it also affect grant funding matching, wouldn't.

K

It gum that off because we've allocated money for grant fund matching.

K

Yes, I would say you can do one of two things you can not match the grant and.

J

Lose the grant or you can match what you needed to so. There isn't a choice to cut.

J

It by 2%- that's all I've thought it ties the soliman.

K

Yes, yeah and that's part what I'm saying there are lots of places where you'll.

J

Find, oh, we can't do it here. We can't do it there. So a method at this point would.

H

Be to look at the three or four sheets operating, because we don't have all the.

H

Information and you can look at the options that we presented to you right.

H

Let's get remember, these are not your only option.

H

The circuit court technology, specialist.

H

But they thought you didn't budget right now right that was it.

L

That was an issue, so we shouldn't even be looking at this. No that's not so. Okay,.

H

Yeah, I guess that's where's the list that I should be looking at right now.

H

Just right, there were two lists in the package, one with some things you can do.

J

In capital and then, while with some things you can do in operating, it's.

A

These two okay, but then remember yeah every budget that reports to you. We.

J

Didn't try and list all the changes you can make, but you can make other changes.

J

There are agencies that receive funding from you that you have no requirement to.

J

Fund, you can make changes there and then you can make it with so many places.

J

Where you have legal responsibilities, you can make changes up to that legal.

J

Responsibility so this is a esterday, a small piece of all the possible changes.

J

But as I tried to describe as I went through them, we put these on this list.

J

For various reasons that we thought made sense to get them in front of you, but.

L

Your presentation is, he gave us, there is a decrease. We've got to plan for health.

L

Insurance one way he went on funny, 20, that's not included it's not in here.

L

Right now now that that is part of this bottom.

J

Line, that's oh it's already in there. You know when we did the recommended.

J

Presentation there were about four slides of things that we changed from.

J

The existing plan to give you the new plan: okay, all your bar okay! Well, it.

J

Would be nice to still have those in our powers, as you remember after we showed.

D

You that plan with just the revenue changes it was close to ten ten billion.

J

Dollars in fiscal year, twenty five.

A

And that's I've said it before and I'm not gonna say it anymore. I'm just gonna.

A

One more time saying it, because there were times last year in the year before.

A

That all of us sat in this room and stared at this screen and stared at.

A

These papers and said nothing for a while.

A

This is for the two by two new colleagues I mean there there's just.

A

Which is why I've been so adamant about how difficult this is. So I just because.

A

You hear silence in the room, it could be the wheels turning that you're looking.

A

For something and last year we didn't start out in the same position. We did.

J

This, but we quickly got ourselves in that position. Yes, I did. We had a. We had.

J

A balanced plan, but the first decisions the commissioners made last year were.

J

Additional spending decisions which put us into a negative position. So then we.

J

Were working time from the same spot, we are now right. We added two new positions.

L

For cc visa, what would if we took them out over that? What would that do? 200.

J

H

So what are you looking at? It's in the blue 275 in the first year first year,.

N

I'm going last year is 367,000. Well, let's start piece at a time on this one.

I

Are you prepared to do that yeah I mean you're, the one taking the brunt of this.

I

I, where we going thank you okay, this is about the county.

I

That's hard thing to get over sometimes, but it is it's about okay, so, okay, so.

A

L

Okay, the three-year plan; yes eight-point to water and 4.2 sewer I'll. Second, it.

A

Okay, any discussion on that.

K

This will be in the paper. You know.

L

All those in favor aye.

J

That was five, so that was four. I'm a post now may s why? I think we should.

K

Respect this position on the from from a personal standpoint, I just know that to.

A

Answer your question: I know that there's been assessments are up. I've talked with.

A

A couple the constituents in the pleasant valley and mark hill user areas.

A

And they were challenged by that. That's that's! That's a good bit of money, so I.

A

Can come back and revisit my vote right now? You've got the votes as the place.

M

Over so you're fine, but that's so so. Why is just from a personal standpoint from.

A

Me, dick after talking to some of the users, especially in that in the the.

A

Valley in that and the bark hill areas, I'm just curious- I mean they have to.

I

Make some tough decisions? Oh I get it trusting. He'll leave me the, and I also.

A

Get the fact that look and I've been very I've been very vocal about that. If.

A

We don't make these decisions now move it forward. It's almost a pay me now or.

A

Pay me later type of type of deal when it comes to our utilities and later, when.

A

You know nextly later just gotten to the truck and left. So I get it. I just that's it. That's an emotional vote for me, dick.

A

That's my answer to you: okay,.

K

Plus, I think we all have the right to reflect our constituency and respect.

K

Their colleagues, okay, they're, not cc piece of place well be you're, never.

L

Gonna, be our employees but yeah, which one.

A

It was a week we called them. A fire chief regarding an assistant is what.

A

They're being called at this point,.

A

That's a win. Stirrer yeah! Welcome what they are. You gotta stop listening to me.

A

Knock it off and how big it seems like a target since we don't have them now, but.

J

Yeah this transition- that is it's coming and I don't know how how we make it work.

J

Without creating these positions, you seen well, I know we're gonna be them. I.

L

Just don't see where we have the money right now to do them, and- and I don't.

L

Know when I might be available, but right now we definitely don't have it there. We.

L

Need them kevin, are you in the need? Can we? But if we don't, I mean just keep it.

L

Up there, you know always think of all where else, because well, we have to.

H

Decide on that right, she was just showing up. Can we incorporate these into.

I

Existing positions here come making a combination not costing so much to begin.

I

With scots campbell's department, is it.

I

Possible to incorporate yeah, I don't think it is you're gonna, be hard, pressed.

A

To find anybody, if we had the money to pay for this anyway, at this salary- and I.

L

Would say: that's booked at least at least a full time job at least yeah. You.

A

Look around whatever you call them yeah you look around. I mean they're called.

A

Different things in different jurisdictions, but you know right now.

A

It's being called or being proposed to be called a chief, which I think you.

A

Already know kind of opposed to anyway, I don't care.

A

What you call them, even at this level of funding for a position like that good.

A

Luck finding somebody yeah one of the things we're up against with this. This.

A

Is not a job that somebody can grow into this is this is somebody has to know.

J

What they're doing cuz they're gonna be creating this. This this course said no.

A

There is no level of expertise as we currently have it. Who could who could.

A

Inherit that moving forward in in our structure, you know, and just as a general.

J

Thought not specifically on this fire chief position, but the idea of people.

J

Picking up additional responsibilities, this is not a new idea that you know.

J

I've told you that you know we cut a lot of positions during the recession. Most.

J

Of those have not been replaced again, I would argue that we have a lot of.

J

Positions who are doing more, that we can reasonably expect than we have positions.

J

Who have capacity to absorb other other duties, particularly significant other.

J

Duties well, how do we do it, then? How do we get? I mean we made the commitment to.

I

Start moving on this or start looking into it. How do we get there? We need more.

K

Revenue, no, I don't know either I don't and- and we had originally discussed, that.

A

This would be out of the game in fy, but perhaps would be not ready until.

A

Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time until somewhere january february, but even at that I know.

A

You you're looking to be dead, I'm getting ready to get the zalesky lecture.

A

I got it. My point is if, if there was any possibility of this.

A

Right now, maybe we could we look after the first of the year to incorporate.

A

That position, if, for some reason, someone found a bushel basket and washed.

A

Somewhere, but that's why I'm gonna cut this small amount? Well, it's already here.

A

But I mean look come on make. We got a look at small amounts in order to get to.

A

The bigger ones can we if he is going to delay out a year yeah I mean this next.

O

Gesture, we can look at it to see if we have funds for it, then I mean certainly.

L

That's what I would do, but years yeah, you're, gonna put it in here. You know I.

H

Don't think we can afford not to.

I

Ok, ucc fees. If I'm with that, then we still, I could find it.

L

Well, the cuts basis you can take this off the board, then, where else we got, I.

L

Agree, I want us to look at economic development and infrastructure and.

K

Investment, that's one and a half million dollars is that allocate to an existent.

K

Job or is that just a fun for them to hold to use? How does it work it's money.

J

That you can tell uses generally to provide infrastructure for businesses.

J

That want to expand or or locate here so the spending is driven by the.

J

Specific development possibilities that come up in any one year, but it's not.

K

Already allocated to a job well done a letter business into the county to help.

L

But we have a couple business parks or business areas coming on, hopefully to be.

L

Developed that money is used to develop those areas like when, when new.

L

Businesses come into carroll county, we don't give them tax breaks, so we don't.

L

Get a tax cut; well, we have, is. We have properties that are shovel ready for.

L

Them to come into with the infrastructure already in there, that's.

L

What attracts businesses in here so we're not losing taxes out of the gate.

L

And if, if a company doesn't make it all the infrastructure that we pay for, it's.

L

Still there for the next company come in, we haven't lost money on taxes. I.

K

Understand that, but my question is that 1.5 million is that re earmark or.

K

Project or is that just a fund that jack holds and if it's a funding, that's what.

J

He would start the year with and then, as projects developed, it would be used. He.

I

Has the money to go ahead and say you want to come here well? Could he have the.

K

Option to use bonds instead of having the cash could that be an option for us.

H

Well, it may be, but it doesn't really help us cuz. We still have to figure out.

J

How to pay for the debt service, then I mean, if it's not I'm just wondering if.

K

It's definitely being used or as a possibility. There's flexibility in that.

K

Realm to work with the reduce it because that's 1.5 million- well, yes it it can be.

J

Reduced now there be competing ideas here. One is you don't have to do this at.

J

All now economic development would say you.

J

Know, but we need we need this to. You know, to get these businesses and there.

J

Might even be some potential businesses already in the pipeline that they would.

J

Look forward and say: I'm gonna need that when we get there, maybe some history.

J

Might be useful again here we used to keep a pot of money at three million.

J

Dollars for this purpose- and there were some changes in accounting rules- we can.

J

No longer keep that there so what we started doing with budgeting million dollars a year in the operating budget. I'm sorry back, I would have had.

J

That little pot, if they spent five hundred thousand the next year, we replace five hundred they spent 1.2 and we spent 1.2. So then we started.

F

Budgeting three million dollars a year that didn't always get spent, so some of.

J

That would fall to the bottom line. It was available unassigned surplus in the.

J

Future then it a fairly recent development. All that's been a number of.

J

Years now, whatever wasn't getting spent directly by economic development on a.

J

Project we were then sending the leftover money to the I da, where they.

J

Were using it upon developing the projects that commissioner fraser was.

J

Talking about now before that we weren't sending them cash, we provided properties.

J

They developed them sold off and then you know recycled recycled the money so.

J

This is totally in your hands to go wherever you want with this and another.

J

Place where, if you provide less funding, then clearly there will be fewer.

J

Opportunities that we can take advantage of what that would be in a practical way.

J

You know I have, I have no way to predict. I can say, though, that we have been.

J

Sending money to the id a regularly, so it means we haven't been directly.

J

Spending all the money on on projects that we are providing the incentive for.

K

How much money did he use it at department last year.

H

So a chimichurri, why? I wasn't sure what you said.

J

I'll catch them, so 300,000 is what it's been. The 517 was a couple years ago. The.

J

Board, reduced funding and economic development came to you and said, but.

J

I've already got a commitment next year and you you put money from the reserve.

J

Back in there, but I think you're telling me that aside, they spent three hundred.

J

Thousand sought them, I feel we could reduce that number and we could rely on.

K

Bonding if we need to do to infrastructure for economic development.

K

I mean if we're making the investment economic development get a long-term.

K

Return alone, a long-term return on the property tax revenue coming in and the.

K

Employment, then, that could be linked to the long term bond payments for the.

K

Investment, putting it all front in cash that we can leverage in overtime, because.

K

We're leveraging it to get the return over a long period of time and pull some.

K

Of that money out of that fund is that going to have a negative impact? I think.

I

This is used to entice p.m. there. You want to move your business to carol and.

I

You're on the bird chicken I'm a few dollars, so they go wealthy with $40,000.

I

Your infrastructure to come here at that point in the state can help calm.

I

Ourselves, and so this isn't to help them with developing road access or buildings.

K

How's that look could be roads, utilities fiber right. That's why I thought it'd be.

K

Used, but it's also great in the property, it's marketing, the property, that's what.

H

This money yeah, I don't know if jack- is al qaeda- that exact amount of money, but.

H

I believe, with the project that he has in hand that this money gives us a.

H

Competitive angel' for other jurisdictions.

H

And bonding it wouldn't be an option yeah. I have time to wait. I'm just gonna.

I

Be there's other programs that other counties jurisdictions use like.

H

Commercial freighter was talking about wharf chips, tax incentive programs and.

H

Just basically not tax a business coming in we, although it's available to us, we.

H

Do not use those type of tools that you know he's using other tools. Other.

H

Investment tools to keep us competitive in building these business parks, so even.

J

If we thought that bonding these things was a good idea, the problem is, we have.

J

No capacity on the bottom line to take on additional debt service here and.

J

Tests on what we expect, a new construction is already built into.

J

These numbers, it's not like we're.

J

Ignoring that there will be growth, we've already captured that.

I

What about storm emergency growth rate in from five to three percent? That means.

I

That every cent counted right. It's not that much money.

L

Number two storms getting worse brother, l iv. I may not be worried about.

L

Cutting out it really would are you talking about? Like thirty thousand there.

L

Are some theories on going multiply now, but I'd be worried about cut net? Is this.

I

Amount, the reduction yeah- this is just a reduction amount, there's still two three.

I

Percent in there yeah right, yeah, yeah and ideally I would leave the five.

J

Percent there you know, I said earlier, you know I think we can live with the.

J

Three percent: you know, you know that this budget is is basically gambling. You.

J

Know we don't know how much we're gonna spend in any one year. I will say, though,.

J

That we, I think we budget this responsibly. I mean there are.

J

Jurisdictions that will budget this way too low and hope for good weather and.

J

Say if I don't get it we'll figure out what we're gonna do as a means of.

J

Balancing with but the budget, I can't tell you that there won't be years where.

J

We're gonna overspend what we have here because we will have, but we also come in.

J

Under this budget, yes, uh I don't have bad feelings about where we're budgeting.

J

This it's not like we're budgeting too, and I think in gee. We really ought to be.

J

Budgeting three it'd be nice if we could, but we don't have that room with you.

H

That may just be semantics, and one thing I appreciate about you is that you do.

H

Not gamble, okay, so this is. This is not about gambling, because gambling is you.

H

Don't know the outcome regardless? Oh yes, the weather would be a gamble, but it's.

H

Accepting risk associated with either making the zoo, not one of my priorities,.

H

As I shared is dealing with the the drug scenarios that we have out there and so.

H

Maintaining those triage beds- I think it's important at this point so.

H

I mean part of this is what can we take away, but also what should we continue.

H

We're at that dimension the triage beds, women. I met two okay, we talked a little.

J

Bit more about that during during lunch, now we don't know exactly what the cost.

J

And what will get there's an rfp out? So if all we have is estimates okay, but if.

J

You think, in terms of fully spending to $800,000 might get us 10 triage beds.

J

That's not necessarily the right number, but in the ballpark of what we think.

J

Would be right and if you said well what if we cut that in half and instead of 10.

J

Beds, you would have five five beds, so we can. We can choose to fully spend the.

J

Money that we're already spending and increase our level of service or you can.

J

Spend less without decreasing the level of service that already exists. You would.

J

Just forego the possibility to do better.

H

So the library machines to maintain the service that we have in place. So you.

L

Know you don't want to add the 1010 beds? If that's what we're talking about.

L

Adding 10 beds correct. Yes, I don't think that what is what he was saying, so you.

J

Want to maintain the additional funding and get the stranger? Yes, the tenant or.

J

Whatever it works out right, correct, the funding now is a proximately $800,000.

B

There's a possibility with the new health insurance rules. Many of these.

B

Folks would be able to be treated by paid for their services would be paid.

B

For by medicare medicaid medicare, but they like the idea in the rfp, is to have.

B

So many events specifically triage vents that are specifically related to carroll.

B

County and those would not be reimbursable by insurances or medical.

B

Programs, state or federal medical programs. So that's where you need the.

B

Additional money and that's the money that you could take away if you chose.

B

Not go down that path, but if you leave the eight hundred thousand, as is then.

B

Then that would be an option and then you have a choice. It's the reason. It's.

J

On this list, at all, you need places to look to. This is a place. You could look.

J

Right, it's my recommendation that we do not touch that those funds is the state.

H

Running the rfp know between oh, yes, that's what I said state I'm in helped.

H

You out, okay,.

A

I know we've thrown a lot of ideas out here, but I don't think we've hit on a.

A

Whole lot yet, but I've that's good. The landfill ted I know we're. I know we take.

A

Money out of the general fund in order to to make the landfill do what it needs.

A

To do so, have we looked at what it would what would happen if we increase the.

A

Fees in order to make up what we take out a general fund which would allow us.

A

To take that, because how much is that I'm trying to look in my book- and I.

A

Can't well it's it's changed. It is reduced, some of it for a couple years.

J

But it's a little bit over two million dollars a year generally, okay, so if, if.

A

We looked at our fees out there and I mean I know it's another increase, but.

A

Something's got to give here: is there a figure that we looked at increase wise.

A

For the fees that would allow us to free up general fund money coming out of the.

A

Coming out of that, in order to make the landfill function correctly, well, the.

J

Only fee we have is it's the tipping fee right and you can't get there with that.

J

Because we're subject to to market conditions and we've experienced this.

J

Before, if you raised raised it beyond a certain point, these solid weights goes.

J

Somewhere else that could change, but it would require a decision to say waste in.

J

Carroll county has to be disposed of in carroll county. That's a choice! You would.

J

Have to make the other path would be something like a system benefit charge.

J

Or moving to districts, something that would change the revenue side of the.

J

Equation because remember the whole reason we have this problem is years ago.

J

We decided to start transferring waste out in order to save life in the.

J

Landfill right we took on a significant new expenditure without any decision.

J

How to offset that cost and we've been been there ever since there's another.

A

One of those decisions added you talked about what we made that you know put us.

A

Where we are now so that's where I'll raise a dipping fee and trash go.

I

Somewhere else, doesn't that extend a life law and landfill? Yes, but we have a.

J

Lot of fix, then we have fixed costs. I mean there's money, we're gonna, spend.

J

Whether everybody comes or nobody comes yeah, it's not all variable cost yo. So.

J

You know it'd be nice to say: oh we'll, just take all the trash away, but we'd.

J

Still be left to figure out how we're gonna pay for a landfill operation because remember the the county is required by law to have means of.

J

Disposing lis of the solid waste now that doesn't have to be a landfill.

J

But transferring out you know comes with its own set of costs, so that's a cost. We.

B

Incur the matter what we have to maintain pursuant to any regulations, I.

A

Got all that I was looking for a way to try to free up some of that money that.

A

Comes out of the general fund in order to make the landfill operate, that's.

A

Where I was trying to go looking for revenue, oh yeah, which is you know, kind.

J

Of important you might have, you might be able to make a small change if you.

J

Talked to solid waste about what do we think we can increase the tipping fee to.

J

Without pushing waste away, I don't think they'd be suggesting anything that would.

J

Significantly change your picture could change. The picture is having a.

H

Conversation about ag preservation and getting to that three million dollar.

H

We're you know, commitment that we made and then leveling off at that three.

H

Million dollars that was discussed earlier.

H

I don't know I mean that the update I have is that I am absolutely for hitting.

H

The targets, nag preservation and the vision, but I think it's gonna- take.

H

Longer obviously, will take longer, but if we do this, but it will we're not gonna.

H

Hit it overnight. So if we look at the vision of the next 20 years, whatever it.

H

May be, if we tap it, three million we're gonna get there. Just give me little bit.

H

Slower, I'm not so sure people are knocking on the door so heavily that.

H

Were anyway, I agree with the commissioner now, where.

K

Are we at on our target 70% 75% 75%? That's a tremendous achievement to reach.

K

75% at this point, so if we had the option of backing off on that and.

K

Slowing down the amount, I think that is a viable option in most preservation.

H

Areas or district one has the most yeah. I will say if I ever moved somewhere.

K

Else in the county I'm gonna go in there. Commissioner wins this district. Does all.

K

The ag preservation up there there's a reason for that too. That leads the.

A

Argument of why you should touch it okay, so you know I look at this as a balance.

I

Between development and open space in the county and it's a critical balance.

I

There it's one of the reasons people come to carroll county because of what.

I

They have now, I know you're reducing it down from you, want.

I

Used to 3 million from what was the amount be 3 million plus each of those.

J

Numbers and you reduced it last year down to two point: two point: you reduced.

I

It down to two point: seven correct yeah: what the commitment to get it back up to.

A

Three correct 22 right so intent is at year 22. We maintain it at three win.

H

Right and yeah this money you're putting out here and I understand you're buying.

I

It only the things this is for is the lot right on this not to develop now.

I

That farmland doesn't cost you anything to have their houses do and they you.

I

Know at a certain price, they cost me four schools and everything else. They.

I

Infrastructure is expensive, so you can reap you know. I'm gonna get outvoted on.

I

This to reduce- and I know that, however, I think you're making a great mistake and.

I

This is a second year in a row that you'd be reducing ag brea's money so be.

I

Aware you guys are yeah, I mean you see that as a good thing, but this is the.

I

Only program that's been successful since nineteen. Eighty on our ongoing.

I

Basis, I wouldn't call it a good thing, but I think is necessary and there's a.

L

Difference what I like to keep the egg price going up the way. Of course, I think.

L

I craze is important for many, the reasons what you just said. So I don't.

L

Think it's a good thing, but the vice the way it is. I think it's necessary.

A

If did you read, did you put that up there as a result of the reason what.

A

Would how would that reflect that bottom line.

H

Thank you much helpful.

I

Then make them exchange all and doesn't do anything 123 right. Well, it doesn't.

M

Yeah, it does but the fruit of those yeah yeah the rain statement he dies, but.

M

L

Do we want to vote on that? I just leave it like that. We could always come back.

L

And look at later.

H

I made the motion second, okay, that's that would be to hold it flat doing it.

L

So we wait until we reach 100,000 acres, whatever that may be.

L

Okay, any other questions on that all right. On favor of that I can opposed.

I

No, no adamantly! No, I think this is I want to make it noted. I think you're.

I

Making a big mistake as a board, so it's three to two right now as a holder, but.

K

Like it was emphasized, this is not final and it's not only likely, but almost.

J

Certain that, at some point, you will be revisiting some of these decisions as.

J

You see how things play out all right. I guess I got to get out of the landfill.

A

Just hang in there for a little bit.

H

At this point, I think we are able to address the mountain tower with not in.

H

This totality, but there's a few of the breakouts that y'all gave us, should be.

H

Able to be reduce at this point two hundred thousand correct.

D

Guys we gave last time yeah, but but if I reduce it to two sister to two hundred.

L

Thousand correct right: it wasn't there, some one-time expenditures in that list.

K

That could potentially yeah start a cost of nurse practitioner and behavioral.

L

Health resource guide vehicle purses and they have balance of seven thousand.

L

Dollars would come almost to a hundred thousand even a moment. What could be.

J

Ongoing the board has not yet committed to them as ongoing expenditures right.

H

Some of those things could potentially be ongoing, but you all have not.

J

Committed to them as ongoing you like committed to that one year of our thanks.

J

And you know, keep them out with us. 300,000 went in the budget, a the number.

F

300,000 came up, we put that in. There was no plan for the use of it. The plan for.

J

The use actually came after the fact 3 yeah, so it's not as if you said we want.

J

To do a b and c, it's gonna cost three hundred thousand really said: let's make.

J

Three hundred thousand available and then see what might be good uses.

J

Commercial frazier, you settle neck. That committee.

K

Do you have insight on what a mad dog? Well, you know, I'm sorry and I don't know.

A

I don't have any insight, I know it's gonna come tell us about it, but you know.

A

Couldn't reduce it to fifty thousand.

L

Where's all sizes, seven test, our balance. Seventy thousand seventy seven thousand.

H

Citrus, you know you, you know, put it in the budget without well. That's that's.

A

Because the opioid situation is so ever-changing and evolving that we.

A

Didn't know you can't put it towards anything and up yeah I'll, be I'll, be.

A

Opposed to this, when you do it, if you do it, because I can't imagine taking away.

A

Resources from a critically a just, a critical problem.

H

Yes- and we have when there is ninety thousand two hundred thousand left over.

H

And a general fund within this budget, and it will be it yes that again it I'm.

A

Sorry there's three hundred thousand dollars. You don't put three hundred.

H

Thousand grunt right coming on it, look at it now we're looking at two hundred.

H

Thousand, that's actually committed to on this for ongoing. If we decide to go on.

H

Going okay about ninety some one thousand one time. Do you believe that.

H

Ninety seven thousand will be used by someone somewhere.

H

Carol well, those uses would come to the board. Yeah they'll come to us and the.

A

Answer to that is yes yeah I mean I've already talked. They have talked with a.

L

School system about her, which is the strength they would like to expand that.

L

So, instead of the forty three thousand dollars there, I can't remember what they.

L

Said but I'm thinking somewhere around 60 thousand, they were like for the coming year and I could be awful not.

H

Specifically decade you you know, I'm all, for I don't know you you put this in.

H

There you know- and I like it and again that's my priority as yours to deal with.

H

The drug situation- I just don't like money, that's just laying there and.

H

Figuring out well, it's there, let's find a use for it. Now, that's kind of what.

I

Happened toward the end of the year last year, people were well yeah as to get you.

I

Know use this and it could be reduced and you'd still have some out there. What.

K

If we reduce about fifty seven thousand dollars the last two items and the cash.

K

A

Well, I'm not gonna answer any of that because I don't think reducing its are.

A

You gonna get to the bottom. I don't know. I just don't think that's that I don't.

A

Know where that's the bear, I'm still looking, I just left the landfill. We were.

A

Give me a break if we're not careful, we're all don lined up in the landfill. I.

A

Mean, if that's an arrogance guys want to touch, you know, go for it. I'm not! I'm not.

A

Stopping you on that, I'm only giving you my my argument as to why I don't think.

A

You should touch anything, especially when it comes to the opioid issue. It's.

A

Huge, it's it's not going away anytime soon,.

A

$300,000, nothing I mean we should be putting his entire budget.

A

Oh, I understand that I'm talking about in the grand scheme of things, so it.

A

Probably will be yes, we just don't know what those specific things are, because.

A

Of the fact that it's so evolving so but it's like the ag press, y'all y'all, made.

A

A motion in the second it north atlanta that I said we could always go back and.

L

Revisit this, no, I said: if you want to do it: yeah yeah, I'm just you're getting.

A

Mario mister, why I won't okay! So what that? That's all, but but you're right.

A

Where are we gonna find these things, I'm just that would be the last one of the.

A

Last places on monaco want to go there. I don't know I'm looking for the elephant.

F

Yeah I've been looking for the element for the elephant for two months: edie no.

A

No, the elephant, that's not in the room, the elephant, that's not in the room.

A

Party take a half million off of economic infrastructure and keep in mind.

A

That we're making these decisions right now in the operating area and.

A

We're not close to what carroll county public schools is asking us for yet so.

A

Just keep that in mind because in past years that's the first thing we did out.

A

Of the game ya know because we were in a deficit. I understand that this big.

D

Difference but I'm just just we didn't go out of the game. We're gonna hold you.

I

In with no you're right, but I just want to point that out that we're making hard.

A

Decisions and well I'm gonna, make a motion and take fifty thousand dollars.

L

From the nine carroll program I'll suck it then I'm sorry all right.

K

Done it, I so gives them plenty of money for their ongoing stuff, and it gives.

L

Some additional money today that they haven't used from this year's budget if.

L

You don't mean from the 300 the awesome all second death. That's tough as it is.

K

On the issue, but it looks like they could potentially afford it. Okay,.

A

Any other discussion on that all in favor aye.

A

That was what I hear yeah I as we go down through here. I'm gonna have to ask.

A

You to do the do, do the hand thing so we know so they know. To so was that a iii.

A

Yep iii for ya and one day.

I

I saved you in the plan. We assume rising prices on fuel, we know it, we know it's.

J

Volatile we don't want to get in a situation where we've underestimated the.

J

Cost as time goes by, we know more. If sometimes we back off of those we're.

J

Suggesting here that we wouldn't be uncomfortable with backing off another.

J

10 cents of our of our assumed increases have you ever run short on what we sin.

L

Has ever gone above, maybe during that last big spike, we might have gotten.

J

Caught one year, I'm not sure but generally, but you know what we're trying.

J

To do is not get in that situation that we, we think will safely keeps us out of.

J

Trouble yeah, so I mean you could we could reduce it even in a more the.

J

Further, we reduce it, though then, the more concerned I get about the.

J

Likelihood of it becoming a problem, yeah well you're, comfortable with reducing it.

L

10 cents a gallon it would. We should be okay, miss campos, you can be yeah yeah.

J

We'd rather keep it where it is right again, we have to find something I'll.

I

Move that we've reduced the fuel pump up to 10 cents, gallon 21 to 25 at 10 cents.

I

Again, south second.

A

Okay, anything else on that all in this all in favor, aye.

D

And give me a give me a hand when you're saying in hollywood every morning how.

K

Does the easiest one okay.

L

Of course, well we got electric cars are going to have this thing anymore,.

A

See making the motion to replace the fleet with electric razor honey? Sorry.

K

What's a demotion ha ha he's not getting a second all that actually, I would save.

I

A lot of fuel, 23 and 25 are our big issues. All right. That's cake. We've been.

A

At this, I'm always like to try to get in in the middle of recessions, just in case.

A

You see a common theme for whatever you know a little break here. Let's take 10.

A

Okay, everybody good with that. 10 minutes of recess will come back at.

A

L

We're back, I was gonna, say the same places when we look. Fortunately, we're.

A

Back with I'm not sure if that is all good, this question reserved for.

L

Positions do we have money set aside for that 24 and 25 so because that's not.

L

That one you're saying so, if we eliminate in that in those two years.

L

With that, what would that deal.

L

Because I still would like to add some positions this year in the next couple.

L

Years, cuz, I still think that we need them to recover from the time or a.

L

Hundred positions or a cut, but you know 24 25, where we have the the biggest.

L

Deficit that give us another- you know 300 mm closer. You looking at reserve for.

I

Positions for all years, no, no just twenty four twenty five one: five! It's.

L

Not on here how'd, it be creative. When I went outside and came up with something.

L

About time can't rely on tears, you know.

H

No! No! No! No! It's not that just those two years, 24 and 25, because that's the two.

L

Years, where we have the the biggest deficit right now, that'll bring those.

L

Two years down a little bit right.

I

Reserved for positions for all the years word is that is that just anticipating.

I

What we're going to be needing to we, if I yeah, if I can't fit.

L

We put originally to our thousand dollars a year aside for new positions.

L

Each year it grows by three percent a year, so this is what that shows. So.

L

That's that's positions that we can assign like this year. We have two.

L

Hundred thirty thousand dollars, of course we have positions that are much more than applet. You know we can use that debt now and I do think we need.

L

That now be honest with you, but I'm looking down the road, I'm sure we need.

L

Every year, but I just look at that- need to positions to there's the problem.

I

Yeah we're starting! So what if you took that a step further further dennis and.

A

Took him out in two three four and five.

M

I got the microphone what's the other way.

D

People were complaining, they couldn't hear me. I thought they're complaining.

L

They could hear you please, and the only reason I would entertain. That is because.

A

One of the one of the one of the one of the areas was for the additional.

A

Dispatch positions which I um hope yeah comes with the next gen funding. You mean.

L

But hey hey buddy from the state hate to use gambling, but that's what I'm.

A

Gambling on, when that comes from, there certainly a risk. We were not gambling.

I

With taxpayers money we I'm gambling; no, we are calculated risks only yeah when.

J

You say coming from the state, what do you mean? Well, I sum up the of the next.

A

Gen 9 1 1 money- I mean ones that I put in there.

A

Whatever was was slated for positions, so if we could make the numbers work with.

A

Our increase as to what we identified it to be to include positions that would.

A

That would take because the that was one of the positions that was listed on the.

A

Priority list: okay, are you talking about the money from the change in the none.

J

One one fee correct: okay. Well, they said we've already built in.

J

What additional 1.6 million dollars! As a result of that? I understand that okay,.

A

But that that's still leaves you negative, so it doesn't mean there's no.

J

Money out of positions, and now it is possible that that revenue is.

J

Going to generate more than we've assumed here, but we don't know enough to.

J

Get there, and also at some point, if the board decides to change our fee, that.

J

Would generate additional revenue, but we haven't assumed that either correctly.

J

Okay, so does everything what what's this reflecting now dad three four and five.

A

Or four and five: okay, that's up on row! 38! You see the 259, I gotta resort. Okay,.

J

What if we did? Twenty two twenty three? I just think we need positions. I don't.

L

Want to take with everything to what I've just done when I'm taking.

I

Everything, but you know it's also. The fact is before the last board. We didn't.

L

Have this in the apply out of at all yeah, we put that in there before, and I.

L

Think it's helped out tremendously. Can we see what it looks like in the.

I

Children, three four: five! You really once you land, you shane, you put this in. We.

L

Put this two thousand in, and you know that came after you know a period of.

J

Cutting and then a right, you, a few of years of trying to figure out how to.

J

Make things work they're just there wasn't really an option to to build.

J

Something like this and now now we have it in here now, but of course, it's part.

J

Of this overall negative picture too right.

J

If you were to reduce the funding in 24, 22, 23, 24 and 25 this bottom line here, I.

N

Guess or small.

N

In twenty two, you would just have a close to a quarter million half a.

N

Million in twenty three, almost 800,000 and about 1.1 million and 25 so that.

A

Would increase it all across the board and get us a little bit in the.

A

Anticipation, if we did that dentist to your to your point, you know maybe in.

A

Twenty one, as we look in two three four five and six.

A

We'd have revenue to put that back right. That's always an option that could.

J

Happen, you know as always, but there are things we don't know just want to make.

J

Sure we're thinking, there's there's no reason we're expecting that that's going.

J

To happen, I am ted, that's the whole reason that we had to back off of our.

J

Revenue projections this year is because we are looking ahead in saying we don't.

J

See it we got so we got a couple extra yeah, but this wouldn't take away the.

A

Fact that we could add a position or two this year right or next year correctly.

J

Just on the revenue picture projections, you know the two things we have that.

F

Could help are still the nine eleven one? Change could end up being more than.

J

We've assumed and income tax could still be better than we. We have assumed that.

L

Haven't been seen anything yet it would be my better. You mean, like a main.

L

Builder or like five million better, I think five million is extremely unlikely.

J

When they in is it's possible but yeah, we have not seen anything that I felt.

J

Put me in a position to tell you we ought to count on a million.

L

Well, we know that that won't be tough to redundant country. There are you right? We.

J

Have no more visibility right where your doctor budget and even then it's still.

J

Gonna be hard to know what we're gonna know, even if it's up there's so many.

J

Things happening right now, it's hard to know what what would be driving the.

J

Increase all right, okay, so show us. Yes. Can we see that dad, please she's so slow.

J

Okay, don't do that then. Please don't do that. Okay, that's two! Three four five got.

A

It okay a little bit better. We do we wanna vote on well, I was gonna say.

A

That's what I was just getting ready to say dennis if you want to do that I'll.

L

Make a motion to reduce reserve for positions and fy 20? What are we starting.

L

At 22 23, 24 25. Second, okay- and you said we do this, but what you really mean is a.

J

Little lemonade right, eliminate at this point right. That's a technical all in.

A

Favor of that, all right, all right with a hand raised to everyone's happy to.

M

Animals me thank you. Well, I want to make sure our our folks.

A

In the mezzanine section, get this okay, if you don't think I'm up level, we have.

L

Jack here I think, he's here to answer question into about the funding for.

L

Economic development, if you want to come on up you, the movie store pop the sit up.

K

Here you going to pick, you got one and a half.

K

Million on here for us- and we need some elaboration, what disguise no one knows.

L

H

Raise your right hand tell the truth, and what do you mean you're, bringing on.

L

North carroll, where does this mark the business of our sees our marketing.

O

Business parkland would be on set, it's not the case right. I guess they. What.

L

Business we need about $600,000 there we're gonna, do the engineering for.

O

Harrison blister, hopefully in the fall.

O

That's gonna, be you've, got a quarter billion dollars and then we have a.

O

Problem with the lean on one soil, we need a. We need about $200,000 before the.

O

Idea takes it to get compaction of the soil that we put on, so we did. We need a.

O

Better, we need about a million won a million two for the projects that we.

O

Know right now.

O

Not if you're looking I mean, I can't say if you're looking for a couple hundred.

O

Thousand dollars more, we don't have it allocated for any of our parts.

O

Now we're barred money from the state at 3%.

O

I mean I take money for 23% of the state right of commerce.

O

So does that you have constraints on the budget, we really don't have anything.

O

Over, let's say a million 250, the fact we don't need two million this year. What we.

O

Really do we'll look at it the following years, but you know we, you got an arsenal.

O

Answer, which is on 14 million dollars? You had with carroll business park, which.

O

Is 6 million dollars? You have delaney, which is 7 million dollars. He of about.

O

30 million dollars that we're going to need to bring these parks on we're.

D

Trying to get partners in one of our parks, the big part. But if we took.

K

350,000 out of that budget, would it cripple you or you would you be alright.

D

1.2 1.2 does she have a million 550,000 nails? So if we took 350,000 off of that.

O

You'd be re-did, we don't want to hurt you because it's white on what you're.

K

Doing but well, I would come back to you if there ever was a deed. If I couldn't.

O

Get it from commerce I'd come back, the coppers will be there force. So if I said.

O

We were ok, but you know reward. They wouldn't really related to 50 all right.

I

Reduced each year well, this is what you need just this coming year. I don't know.

O

About the next year it depends on the harrison waster. Ok, so you talk about.

L

Giving us taking what would be three thousand one time this year, only yeah no.

I

No, you sure, I'm not you says much, you know. I don't like that, though yeah.

L

That's what you said: okay he's the director of that department.

K

Yeah, I know, but just get some clarification here.

H

Yeah we still have to 1.5 yeah, but I bet you could reduce that to 1.25 1 1 1.

O

Billion 250 right we would be, we would be fine.

O

This year, let me just coming here and 50 out years, the at yours I'd like to look.

O

At based on, if we get a partner for house of moisture, because that's the 13.

O

Million dollar construction project so.

A

So this point this money that is set aside for this is goods to the id a.

A

Right for the most part, the id a is the one that is using the money to leverage.

A

Whatever it is to get these business parks there, anyone borrow money from.

O

Commerce right, not the county, I wanted to make it clear: it's not your carroll.

A

County, that's borrowing the money and since it's there it's the county, central.

O

Right leaving, why am I showing two million fifty thousand and four and five.

H

Fy 24 25 yeah after you know, I missing something here.

A

What's that phone calls by last year, you reduced it in a couple years and then.

J

Returned it right turned it where it being right what's right, but thank you.

A

That's right, 1 million years in the anticipation that you get it back to.

A

Where it was supposed to be participating that we sell land but lea.

O

The ready to be we're talking, we're talking, lien prices in north carroll is.

O

Parked in 115,000 an acre and we're talking partisan, I start a half million.

O

Dollars made jack, I'm sorry, I think he may be. I mean you're confusing the ita.

B

Which you know in this conversation, I just want to be very clear for the.

B

Commissioners, you're confusing the work that the iga does in developing the.

B

Business parks and selling land to you know business owners like folks and.

B

Others and then using that those proceeds to reinvest in future business.

B

Parks, that's all I da work. This is specifically, I think the commissioners.

B

Are asking me about the infrastructure development fund which is used for training? And you know attracting businesses and.

B

Different things and we use that money- you know for per diem in the last last.

B

Several years, that's that's why you you're, referring to this money as being.

B

Really part of the idea wait. So what what you're asking is really for the.

B

Commissioners and ted's talked about this before to really memorialize. If.

B

You're going to continue this idea of transferring money to the iba, make it a.

B

Real thing don't want to turn and and and actually say, you're going to.

B

Transfer x somewhere dollars the iba for these purposes really, you know it said.

B

You know if you're gonna, if it's a one-time thing that you've been doing for five years, it's probably no longer a one-time thing. If you want to continue.

B

To do it, and it's really been going on- I don't know ted- would answer that. Well,.

D

There's really four years so that long, then it maybe should be a separate line.

B

Item and separately identified as such and so you'd separate the two issues so.

B

You know what you're, actually we never know about trading money of you know.

O

Which we just had we had fifteen thousand dollars of the company was.

O

Gonna for two hundred employees- and that didn't happen, so we put 150 thousand.

O

Dollars back in right yeah, so we don't, but we mix the money between.

O

Infrastructure and training- that is true, so over the past two years, the leftover.

H

Money, you were transferring money from your budget to the idea. Yes, we use out.

O

For infrastructure, how much money were you transferring at the end of year? This.

O

Year will probably transfer about 600 600 thousand dollars. What about last.

H

O

Last year we didn't transfer much a couple hundred thousand dollars, so it.

H

Sounds like it'd be safe to say either 1.5 million 1.5 million. If we reduced it.

H

To one point, two: five years: yes, all of the out years yep, I would say yes.

O

Because we could go at that point, we'll have enough infrastructure to sell land.

O

Before we borrow money from the idea with borrowed money from commerce, okay,.

M

Okay about helps yep, that's fantasy lands and.

A

Russians any other questions for jack. What helps the budget? Okay! I think we.

K

Owe you dinner or something you know didn't know we have a problem, we get a.

O

Big company coming in we'll come back to you and say exactly you know we need. We.

O

Need money, but right now we know where we are a year out as our larger.

O

Companies take about 14 once yeah right, so do a contract right. We don't.

O

Have any more companies right now: okay, better for cheating oneself; okay, okay,.

A

Cool all right, thank you thanks. Thank you, mrs. ira, and your most helpful.

M

H

I mean so with that said I'll make the motion to move it from one point: five.

H

Five to 1.25 million second for all the years for all the years, we've got a.

H

Hopefully, a very good impact see what happens.

H

Like that, yes, wow voila.

A

All right did we get a second on that, I'm sorry, yeah did you? Second, it. No okay,.

I

Why why is 23 stilson large here big? What did we do that may 23 stole you.

H

Gave each other pay right now, I'm kidding.

J

Yeah and then there could be a lot of things leading to that one likely.

J

Possibility is we backed off of the property tax projection because of south.

J

Carroll coming in so low this time we backed off a bit in that that year, so.

L

The bottom line is with what we just did already added into it. Yes, so we still.

L

Need yep all right: let's take a vote on this placeholder, all those in favor aye.

A

H

I probably one more time a b for them. It's the dog basic education, explain to.

I

Us the differences you used to match and eliminate which we we currently put in.

J

More than the required match, so I think it's about eighty thousand from great.

J

But you could, you could reduce our over match without causing any other change.

J

But if we reduce below the match, then they would lose state funding as well. If.

F

We completely eliminate our funding. Not only would they lose our funding, but.

J

They would lose the state accountable now from the state now what impact, if.

I

You reduce to the match, as I have on the community college. Well, they would they.

J

Would offer fewer services to the people that are going through the adult basic.

J

Education, I mean somebody that they're serving now wouldn't get served. These.

L

People without the education I mean once they get they go through this. They.

L

Become much more productive citizens in carroll county and that's why it's there.

L

I would strongly advise against is not touching that it's only what eighty.

L

Thousand dollars, or whatever it is, I just I I think sort of really heard is.

L

In the future, I think who would just take a portion, I mean for my.

L

Understanding owes it all use. Oh yeah, it's tight as heck yeah. It's used the.

I

Eighty thousand, they used it all on each year and we don't have any visibility on.

J

That so I can't I can't answer that with confidence. That's, and I don't mean that.

J

To suggest that you're not spending, I'm just yeah, I'm not something. You see, yeah.

J

This is one of those things where you know we we send them a check. We see the.

J

Check go out, but we don't see how spent.

H

There's some trail development, that's not already in parks. That means don't.

H

Read that is in the budget now it's in the budget and it is in the plan. So you.

J

Could take that out and improve your bottom line? That's what I'm saying you.

J

Know it's it's basically, a contingency. It's there in case an opportunity comes.

J

Up out of the budget cycle- and it doesn't happen a lot- you know my.

J

Position on this is we just? We can't afford to have that kind of money sitting there for today something may be happening and if an opportunity actually.

J

Arose yeah, I mean you have other options to take that there. So if, if record parts.

J

Came and said we didn't see this coming, but we have a chance to do this trail of.

J

Development, we could look to some other temporary measure from another capital.

J

Project that we would fix the the following year, so I I don't think.

J

There's any reason to be concerned that it would force us to miss out on an.

J

Opportunity that we didn't want to miss has that money been used in the past, not.

J

For this purpose, I think it a little bit guy used for something else that right.

J

Right we completed, we completed a little piece of paving some, but but no it.

F

Really hasn't come up in the way the project was set up.

A

Is that the kind of thing where open space funding could be used in wonderful.

A

Ted in lieu of the trail development- I mean that's a place. We could maybe get.

A

It from right, if we had to I don't know yeah well in that the same way, do a seal.

J

It was set up, wait what yes program open space can go.

J

To these projects, this was set up with the idea. If something that happens out.

J

Of the budget cycles, and then you got to go okay right. Okay, I just I really don't.

J

See that as being a significant problem for us and weighed against the other.

J

Choices: you're making. You know it's hard for me to argue that this is a good.

J

Place to keep the money sitting right.

L

Its 50th I'll make the motion that we take the money out of $50,000 in a trail.

L

Development, so, in other words eliminated yes I'll. Second,.

M

All right discussion is there any well just I have one point: that's the.

H

Challenge of keeping the momentum enthusiasm about developing trails.

H

Walking paths and trails in the county I feel like, as I met folks, does some feel.

H

That we've started and stopped on some of these efforts and we have a number in.

J

The plan on that number there are some trail government, any plan right now and.

H

You know again, I may just be missing. You know the apples to bananas to everything.

H

And this doesn't have any impact on any of those efforts. There's nothing playing.

J

For this money, okay, that's why I say it's basically a continued continued.

J

Signal, so do you know why it was put in there like exists? Like a you know, last.

H

Board 59 or does it I mean this- has just been there and he's where they asked it.

H

I I think it was last board. Reckon parks suggested that you know they. They saw it.

J

As a good thing board, but along with it, okay, that's man. Okay, thanks.

A

Any other questions on that particular placeholder, if not all those in favor.

A

I

That's the saudis asset management in work. Water system, like I said earlier,.

J

There they have arguments for doing it. I don't have any argument that would be a.

J

Bad thing to do, but they don't have it now I mean you can choose not to move.

J

Ahead with this, it's just like the the two other ones they asked for that are.

J

Not in the recommendation now they're good arguments for them as well. We just.

J

We're stuck making some choices well, this is this is not what was preached.

J

Last week, this is that this one is included in the budget now, so you can.

J

Stop this and improve your bottom line, the other two they talked about are not.

J

In the recommendation now so to do them, you would actually have to identify.

J

Funding to put towards them is there any other way to get those funding get.

I

Funding for those programs, they were really good programs, but there's a way.

I

We could find get that money for them as there another avenue we've never pursued.

I

Or know if we thought there was another avenue we we would have pursued it.

J

You're, referring to what was discussed last week, well yeah, this is that's not.

I

What this is no? No, yes, so a program like that, but I mean some of these. I, like.

I

What they have to say in these these are really good.

I

Technological advances for the county, however, the county can't afford them.

I

Right now, that's the issue I guess mike does. I agree with whatever was discussed.

H

Last week, are there good programs or integrated program.

H

Get us into the next level of you know: success further.

H

Gbw, I just don't know what these programs are, what what this is? Okay, this.

J

Isn't this is an asset management, so it's kind of tracking what we have, what.

J

With what we will need to do, how do you? How do you plan in what you said there.

J

There's nothing there. You would say well that would be wasted wasted money. The.

K

Question is not a bad idea, but just can we afford. We don't have the money now.

J

This one I mean we have a negative balance, but it is in these numbers now.

J

This one day right, the other two are not in these numbers. The the other two are.

H

They in comparison to these or no are they completely separate program and.

H

Completely independent, so renounce one is better than the other. I mean they're.

H

Just different systems: just do it zoe's different things, so taylor described.

J

This, the other two one is a way for people to report. But if there's pothole.

J

You know, and then that gets into a system. That's like.

J

Was saying so we contract report came in who's, who's handling. This has it been.

J

Been resolved and then the other one was project management's this about stuff.

J

We're building and how we in a similar way, how do we keep track of all that.

D

Just now they're just not a lot to choose by that's why, at the very.

J

Beginning of that last session I said, somebody's things are gonna, make you uncomfortable and me, and the agencies choose from that's it's part of that.

J

Larger story, you know it's, uh it's not like something happened overnight.

J

We've been squeezing our way to this point and other choices we've made at.

J

Other times are no longer available to us and we don't have many choices for.

I

H

Call me we may have some when we talk to uh health department and singer is well.

J

I don't think ed's gonna have anything to offer to you. That's gonna, say: okay, go.

J

Ahead and take that robin you won't but don't share with us his input. We need to.

I

See where that money ran and works going to move? Oh, I don't know, I mean, like you.

H

Said everyone? That is a good idea, and every one of these is for the betterment.

H

Of our community and county got it just like jack did a few minutes ago, walk.

H

This room, we really deserve. Okay. I know we have thursday afternoon for today's.

B

Thursday afternoon, then, when is the next budget.

N

We go to stay the 18, so unfortunately, head singer is not available neck.

B

This thursday not easily he's statewide to meeting okay, so he can miss it. He.

B

Wanted to I'm not sort of unrelated but related kidding. We had supplied from the.

L

State's attorney's office come in and talk is about the early intervention program. I liked it because we do find that completely like they're a little.

D

Bit more about which program denso the intervention that well it's, I guess the.

L

Best way to say that if your drug abuser, hiv to news programs, try to help you out.

L

But I've heard some things about it. I just want to ask a few questions and if.

L

We're funding it completely. I just just want to see what actually does not from.

L

Antidotal stories from other people, it's like they kissed you before it broke.

L

J

Your conception of some grant funding everything in the state's attorney's.

J

Operation is funded by you right.

A

Was there any more discussion on that report? The one you all were just.

A

Debating the history of the so smith management and work or system yeah, if he.

A

Got anywhere with that or I was listening but didn't know if you, if.

A

Anybody had a desire, he hasn't didn't to remove it. Yeah, okay, because it's tied to.

H

Right, looking at the efficiencies there right doing this calendar, okay.

I

If we do remove it, they would apply for it again next year. I'm sure right well,.

H

It's efficiences where's, the elephant, don't know buddy. We got a marble.

D

Tabletop, that's uh that's kind of an accurate statement.

H

Ordering the other ideas, how the enterprise funds to address that could.

H

Be addressed to help this ya know you know basically the nature of them. They.

J

They sit outside go friend, you can't in a sense make money in the enterprise.

J

Flying right to support the general fund, so I mean I don't think there is any.

J

Money, but even if there was you, couldn't use it that way.

H

Unless it was rates well, the the rates would be revenue to.

J

The enterprise not to the general fund, yes,.

M

So we do have to 2.9 million in 20. We could balance two years, maybe not.

I

Forward right its one-time money, yes, you could, he warned us of this, don't go.

M

I

And we still have one something in there. What's that actually done previously.

J

Yes, we've done a a mix of using one-time money to fill holes in in the plan and.

J

We've used unassigned fund balance, reduced the medical internal service.

J

Funded think reduced ag pres reduced solid waste, probably something else. I'm.

J

Forgetting, okay,.

J

Really stay away from that.

I

Could we take say a million in ff id 20 and put it back into our reserves? Well, I.

J

Wouldn't put in the reserves because that really exists. Yet if, if we end up.

J

With a balance in fiscal year, 20 and everything else is fixed when I would.

J

Actually suggest is that we back off of some of our revenue estimates in fiscal.

J

Year, twenty, so that we have less concern about whether we make them or not to the.

J

Extent that comes in that would create unassigned fund balance that you can.

J

Then use in a future year either to put in reserves yeah or for it to budget for.

J

Something you really have to be careful about spending that, yes, just because.

I

It's there, you don't have to yeah and my concern isn't so much about spending it.

J

As it is in making the future work by by spending it- and you know the first time.

J

We did something like this yeah. I think I, my reaction was kind of okay, maybe not.

J

Something I would suggest, but no reason why you can't do it, but then, over time.

J

It we've been, we've been doing repeatedly and in some years more so in.

J

My conservatives were becoming dependent on using these things to keep fixing the.

J

Plan, rather than having a plan that actually works.

H

Appreciate that continued theme.

H

Is there anything sweet services and we're not using and in what fleet.

H

Services vehicles, I don't think, there's an easy. Yes, there now a small part of.

J

Fleet, which is the pool of cars people use for doing things right. The demand.

J

There is greater than than our supply, so I mean you could change the approach, but.

J

There's it's not like, there's, obviously unused vehicles, the vehicles that are in.

J

Daily use are in daily use. You can only reduce that by saying.

J

Somebody is not going to be able to get around the one one place where arguably.

J

The vehicles aren't always in use is snow clouds, but the situation there is.

F

You only need them when you need them. Tell of those trucks are on the road.

J

Every everybody, but you could have a smaller fleet, I believe, but then you.

J

Would be hamstrung when it came time to just design to have it contract it out.

H

Well, we do contract out some of our routes. I think- and this is something.

J

Public works, they dress better than I do, but I think there would be concern about.

J

How much of this ends up in contracted hands, rather than our employees, and also.

J

Concern are there enough contractors to do it, what we use for contractors, I.

J

Think is more about our subdivisions than it is our main roads and with.

J

Lighter vehicles.

I

You know the expense of all those trucks are out there. I mean, I don't know what.

I

It is but it's significant: could we delay the replacement of some of those.

I

On ongoing basis and stretch them out a little further, you could, I would argue,.

J

If you do that, it would get you one time money and you could ship the back a year.

J

But it doesn't create ongoing money for you, but I would, I would argue, against.

J

Doing it, I think we're already pretty prudent on how long we keep things you.

J

You know we don't replace things well, five years is up, let's go get a new.

J

Something new all of our vehicles are evaluated every year on. Basically, what's.

J

It costing us to maintain this vehicle and does that still make sense, so we're.

J

We're replacing them when we believe we need to be replaced them. You know not.

J

Because we've hit a certain mileage or a certain number of years, I think you know.

J

Reducing our effort, there would just be another one of those things where you're.

J

Creating problems for yourself.

I

You release any of them rather than buying. I don't, and you and part of that.

J

Part the reason why these vehicles don't make sense for us is because of how long.

J

We keep our vehicles, you know it's out. Okay, like with my car.

J

Elise would not make sense for me cuz. I usually keep my car for twelve or.

J

Fourteen years I have, I have years of their payments, the lease doesn't get you.

J

There I like how you think.

K

See you got 2.3 million in your budget for risk manual management. That's a lot.

J

Of its workers, compensation- and some of it is other things we insure buildings.

J

And vehicles we're part of the local government insurance trust for some of.

J

Someone risk a a pool of local governments. Some things were self.

J

Insured, so we we have a loss, we just pay the loss, workers compensation. We are.

J

Self insured, so smart yeah. We made that move a number of years ago, and I think I.

J

Think it has worked for us. That's why I'm always reminding people that you.

J

Know when you get when you get hurt we're paying that bill, every dollar.

J

We're spending on that is a dollar that's not available for some other.

J

K

The farm museum costing almost a million dollars to run what type of return on.

K

Investment, do we get on that? We do get some revenue nowhere near as much as the.

J

Cost of it we have the wine festival, do some weddings, any other revenue.

J

J

But yeah it's quick, maybe we're recovering a third of the cost or.

J

Something like that, maybe not even that much and would not even be running.

H

Successfully, for is if this ball cheers that running. Oh yeah,.

H

Thousands of that word shortage something going to recognition. The other.

H

Day and very impressive, I mean just like many of the services we have in our.

H

Community, our volunteers really run yeah just like our recreation program, howard.

J

County, a lot of a lot of the programs or people were being paid to do them almost.

J

All of ours- this is um volunteers, quit paying debt service. We have our bottom.

I

J

You also wouldn't have some big thanks for coming yeah, I'm sorry. I understated.

J

We that was in eighteen, oh in twenty, we have about six hundred thousand of.

J

Revenue but budgeted in connection with the bar museum, so we do get some return.

K

On that investment yeah, that's a big draw. The return for me is the fact that.

A

It's there as a child. My dad used to take me to the fiddler's convention just.

A

Shooting from the hip dad, as I continue to try to do, is I look at this thing.

A

Ever over the last month and a half will.

A

There be any advantage to do anything with something like our or the money. We.

A

Set aside for paving or pavement management that we do this is this is, is.

A

Something coming from the gravel road guys yeah yeah, but I know we've got.

A

Quite a few dollars in there that we put in to look out over the years in order.

A

To make sure that we do that, and I don't this is another one of those things if.

A

You don't fix them you're in bad shape, yeah! Well, yes, but that's huge, but we we.

J

Can reduce it, but it can only be reduced by just saying we're. Gonna do fewer.

J

Fewer roads all right, but um that was one of the things that I was looking at.

A

To see it because I don't know how many millions are in there, but I know in the.

A

Out-Years I mean it's double-digit right. That's.

K

7.2 million in roads yeah no way you're going to be in the capital.

J

Budget I'm talking about the paper, you know 20. We have 12.7 going up to.

J

Fifteen point: nine: in twenty five now we would. I think we would say that that.

J

Level of funding is allowing us to keep the road system as a whole in.

J

Satisfactory condition not excellent condition, and in fact we know, we have.

J

Some roads that deteriorate badly because at some point we say it's better.

J

To spend the money to keep these ten roads in good shape than it is to do.

J

This road now at some point someday we'll have to get to it and then we we.

J

Do have to get to it in a more expensive way, but this isn't enough to make to.

J

Allow us to totally avoid those that understand and choices. Looking for.

H

Well, we have no money budgeted or planned for unpaved roads, so an.

J

Interesting thing I've come across a couple times. There are some jurisdictions who are allow actually allowing paved roads to turn back into.

J

Unpaved roads because they don't feel like they can afford to keep them not.

A

Suggesting that all right, I'm just it was on it, was on a little list of things.

A

That I thought, maybe, if we really get down to an area- and we would have to.

A

Find something yeah yeah and that falls into the big category. That said to me.

J

There are lots of choices we can make as long as we're willing to recognize.

J

Reducing the funding means a reduced level of service and be okay with that.

J

Right, you know one of the difficulties of when went through the last recession.

J

Is we made a lot of expenditure side changes without making corresponding.

J

Service level choices. So when I say you know, I talked about the the pressure on.

J

Providing services- that's that's a big part of what I'm talking about.

J

And it was understandable in the beginning when we thought, maybe we just.

J

Need to hang on for a year or two, but now we're at ten years.

A

I'm just trying to look for any a couple dollars that we can that's all.

D

That's why I looked at that and thinking that, maybe in the out years we can be so.

A

Back off of that a little bit to help, but the problem with this is we're just.

L

Trying to get this balanced so what's already here right, but not adding.

L

Anything else right, none of our priorities are in here now, yeah right.

A

And, as a matter of fact here do you want to take one of mine out under where else.

L

To cut unless well, that's why I was looking yeah. I know.

L

Management you're trying to be creative to try to think of some things. It's a.

L

Cut but and workers cut there's that loss. That's kind of the thing that you.

A

Could do in the out-years and you can try to throw something back.

A

Into that, because we use the sedan, I.

H

Don't know no, it's not larger yeah. It's myself and I'd back off a.

A

Paving before I back off the vehicles, that's what paving before you do.

A

Vehicles, you know we're still just trying to get back to zero.

I

All right look without we're not even adding anything we're just trying to get.

I

Back to it, that's what this is. This drives me, nuts, I mean getting back to us.

I

We should be moving ahead instead of and part of, your struggles and something.

J

I've talked about before you, people will complain to you that.

J

Government is too large, but when you look at what we do for a county in the.

J

Maryland kind of approach to things there's just there's not a lot of stuff.

J

We do that just looks like extras. You know that it's pretty basic stuff and so.

J

It's oh it's hard, it's hard to say well, let's stop doing that and you've been.

J

Through it all all afternoon, you know you look at something and say you know.

J

We can't do that or that's gonna hurt us or that's gonna, get in the way of one of.

J

Our priorities and it's gonna, be true of almost everything, then we're at the.

K

Bottom from federal and state mandates that come down the line that are.

K

Unfunded, yes, once it gets put in their budget, we have no discretion on it. Yeah.

J

That's a huge part of your budget, somebody else telling you you have to do.

J

This did we get any increase like from the state, with the h with the hur, how.

A

Are you gonna? Do we get anything to add d now this year I know, there's been a.

A

Push to try to bring that back and other municipalities certainly got a better.

A

Return on that, then then the counties did I'm still on this paving thing.

D

Because I was just trying to.

N

But so novel for balancing, okay yeah. So no we haven't seen an increase and we.

J

Actually have an increased concern about it, though, because none of this is a.

J

Legislative formula and anymore now: that's all that, so they can more easily.

J

Take it away, and you know, there's there's always talk down there about.

J

Returning this this monday- and I I don't- I don't believe for a minute that we're.

J

Ever gonna get anywhere near where we once were.

J

The state has too many things, they're trying to figure out to come up with the.

J

Pot of money they need to give us all back the highway user revenue I'd, be.

J

More concerned about us, you know losing what we have, that I have expectations of.

J

Getting more yeah, we should treat carroll county like a club and everyone.

K

Asked to pay a $10 year annual membership fee to be here correct, yeah.

H

That's exactly right, headed $10, a person something we do know okay. So what were.

H

Your expectations for today none so you're satisfied. I actually didn't think.

A

That we'd get this far to be warehouse with you I mean. Maybe it is a good time.

A

Were you saying that, as a result of maybe we all stop, I'm feeling it? I mean.

L

We haven't come up with much and lat is continue to an arable work digging in.

A

This we need to think through it and I've been studies, numbers just keep.

H

Going and asking the hard questions- and I think I'm having some more good.

H

Discussion with some of you may not be elephants, but they're still large.

H

Animals, like the health department, what they're doing understanding and there.

H

May be things we can carve off of that there are some priorities heads you know.

H

We should not waver on like deal with the drug. You know issues in the medicare.

H

Of that, that's a tough one. We made a decision.

H

But um yeah bringing mr. katz and away and mr. libor anand day was very.

K

Productive force, so if we could potentially bring in some other.

K

Directors, maybe they could be as helpful I'd say if you have specific things, I'd.

A

Like them to address right right exactly, but not not to do a search right yeah, I.

K

Mean if any of us think of something yeah, I wasn't gonna be involved here and.

L

Less money for the department that'd be great.

B

Female and and department, don't you probably come in on me.

B

I can't hear you, oh so so I haven't heard from the state's attorney about.

B

The early intervention program that hopefully I was here before it's too.

B

Long about whether or not he'd be available, or someone would be available to talk about that, and it could make himself available thursday only you have.

B

To miss that meeting, so if you want this thursday or next thursday, just let me.

B

Know well, if you can do it either first thing in the morning or the last thing.

H

This way you can not have to miss, you know it would be out of budget time if.

B

He did it first thing in the morning on thursday, which, if you're ok with that.

B

We'll adjust the schedule, do it, but just one.

B

I mean if it's convenient for him to be able to do that and it still meets our.

H

Objectives, I'm all for adjusting or an open session.

H

So listen to it and the party conversation for me that's up to it. I.

H

Agree, I think chopping, a budget okay and as you're looking through things and.

J

Thinking about it, if you have questions, just stop me or send the emails and.

J

We'll try and get you whatever information you need and disturb your.

K

Sleep if you're getting at me, I think we're being too shy on you.

M

All right so we're back here on thursday afternoon correct good morning. We have a.

A

Regular schedule of things that need to be okay; okay, all right with that I'll.

H

Entertain a motion to adjourn second, all those in favor aye.

A