CHAOSS Common Metrics Working Group, 20 Feb 2020

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.Common.Feb.20.2020

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CHAOSS.Common.Feb.20.2020

A

All right, you're going okay.

B

So welcome to the chaos common metrics working group meeting for February 20th 2020.

B

The first thing that we have on the agenda is that we need to recruit someone to lead the next meeting, because I am going to be in where am I gonna be I'm gonna, be at scale. The scale conference in Los, Angeles, Pasadena.

C

D

Be there as well I.

C

Won't be at scale Malik, oh, that would be the gist of March right. Yeah, yes, I mean.

A

I can work on actually.

C

But I do have a I'm on the steering committee for the ACM SIGCHI.

C

Know me to conference, so I can't do it. Okay, we have our board it's scheduled for an hour and a half stirring, occasionally.

B

If you could remember to send out a reminder, a couple of.

A

Days before the.

B

Meeting that would be cool, I have forgotten for the last two meetings. I used to have a count, I used to have a task that did this.

C

B

Me, whatever my he and I, must have accidentally deleted it or something because yeah.

A

I better do that if the three of you aren't gonna, be there I'm gonna need to recruit so yeah.

B

I may I may be able to attend if I do attend, I'll be attending from a conference. Yeah.

A

B

Yeah, exactly okay, sure anybody have anything else. I'm gonna, add to the agenda.

E

B

Work diverse contributions, metric update, yeah.

D

So we have a proposal. There are no open comments on it. I don't know if you want to read through it, so this came originally there's types of contributions. I put the links in came out of the DNI working group, but there were elements for how do we identify contributions across different channels at across the range collaboration platforms that were so basic that they didn't have anything to do with diversity and inclusion?

D

And so the proposal was to take this technical part of what are the types of contributions being made into the common working group and then built a separate metric for the diversity and inclusion.

C

D

Group that just uses this common metric and then talks about how it can show diversity and inclusion. I.

A

Have a question: would this be similar to you know the current conversation I think it's around issues with evolution, it's all right so that there's a common metric but then there's a more localized version of that metric for a particular working group. Is that, like this time to first respond, yeah, that's the one yeah? Yes, I'm, not you! Okay, all right! Yeah! The common metric is time to first response and the localized version of it in evolution is time to first response on issues or issue response time or something like that.

A

Okay, and so this is the same yeah.

D

Okay and so I know, we've gone through this before and removed the DNI work.

D

So I don't know if you want to read through it again together or if you just want me to create a pull request and we do iterations. There sure.

A

I, think of them, can we talk through it a little bit? It's pretty long and we've been I'm. Looking at the Google Doc, yeah and I. Think in the last round of released metrics we've been hoping to be more dense, more concise, so that they're approachable and what other people think.

D

Yeah, we can certainly streamline it yeah. Just looking at the description, we can take out the historical aspect and the whole motivation, and so on. Yeah.

B

I made a suggestion to cut some a chunk out of the objective.

D

I'll just accept it goodbye already.

A

D

So a type of contributions is something that I had some good conversations that cost them about. Libre Office community is looking to include more types of data in how they recognize contributors and I know it Drupal. They have the same conversations. So this is a important metric to move forward.

B

I also made a suggestion around then.

F

We're dying magic.

A

And I guess this long list, you know spanning pages one and two I mean it's an appropriate list and I think having the bullets as to what can be a contribution is actually helpful. Mm-Hmm.

B

I would agree with that.

B

I wonder if we can cut this bit out.

A

So, as this sum is, is the part that you're in on are these collection strategies.

A

It seem to be a little bit of a mix.

D

Yeah, those are different ways to collect data. Okay,.

A

So we do have under yeah yep, okay.

B

That's not the right heading for the template. I. Just don't remember it.

D

D

Matt has edited so many metrics. He knows.

B

Of my heart, I haven't.

A

D

So this one interviews.

D

And here's our surfing's.

A

Neither would be fine.

B

B

Wonder if we could do something like.

B

Something like this to shorten it to.

A

Recognize just one sentence: yeah.

F

A

mmm In some of the.

C

A

We actually provide a scale. You know what a question might look like: mm-hmm.

F

A

Want to do that here you know talking about yep.

D

A

So with this, so this part this one is: should we rewrite this as a data collection strategy, so like identify the leads different personal project?

A

This isn't really a data collection strategy. As it stands, it's about how to represent the information.

D

Yeah I think it can be a collection strategy.

A

A

Mean it can just be like.

D

And then the question could be what project deets are listed on the project website or in a repository.

D

Others accepted.

A

So that I, okay, this is a little bit different again. This is about display the next one. The idea here is to have an ongoing issue that identifies contributions. Is how I read that so.

D

What the Drupal community has done is to use the issue tracker for NOC code related things like organizing events and so on, so they they have certain tags on whatever in their issue tracker to identify. Okay, you're working on whatever type of contribution here, I see.

A

So it isn't way it is a way to collect the data in that regard. Yeah, okay, doesn't make sense, so maybe not collect trace data, but like um capture.

D

Yeah, that's the next one collect trusted is the next one.

A

So capture contributions.

A

If you're tracking.

A

D

Doesn't have to be an issue tracker I would.

B

Say maybe more like capture non code contributions or capture other contributions?

B

We can get rid of via issue tracking, because there are other ways to do that.

D

This use proxy activity is very similar to capture non code contributions. Maybe we can merge those two I'll just remove log out of the middle so that you position these together.

B

Can we just get rid of that middle, the middle bullet, the.

A

One that you highlighted yeah.

D

Yep we can remove it.

A

It's not a it's, not a good sentence.

A

Because it has a time spent on it twice.

D

Okay, but we can say.

A

The other time spent, but that's alright, now time spent this gun.

A

What is what is this stuff for I.

D

Think about removing it, because the data collection strategies already give a lot of ideas and yeah.

A

D

Types of contributions that we have above that can also help okay.

A

I am in favor of that yeah.

B

D

Okay, I'll push the button. Now you wanna move this.

D

This internationalization library exchanged that's what happened in the LibreOffice project. They just started using a different tool for internationalization, and we wrote this long before they did. This I just find it funny that we have an actual concrete example for where this happened.

A

Leave it in yeah wrinkles are good.

D

I have a few more references that I recently collected that I can put in here.

D

From OpenStack Drupal and LibreOffice.

A

I'm gonna suggest something crazy.

A

See what I added above references yeah.

D

A

So me, this is to Don's point yesterday in the community call, maybe- and the reason I'm suggesting it here too, is because this is where it first arrived. This concern was in common about data protection, so I.

D

A

The workflow would be is that maybe we can craft something here that I can share with folks at the LF just to make sure what we say is OK, oops, that what we say is OK, I, think short and sweet could be, could be good. I.

B

Would be happy to talk about that, but I'm not sure that it belongs in the individual metric. That's.

A

Fair yeah I think the discussion no you're right I mean the discussion that we had maybe two weeks ago in the community call was that it would be this kind of high-level declaration that blankets all metrics yeah.

E

D

F

D

To start a document and I need to do this, for what Oh for the ethical concerns and so on, data protection.

B

Is it the same thing like Matt, what you were just talking about and what you, what.

A

Are you talking about Erik didn't.

D

We talk about two weeks ago that we wanted to put out some guidance for people as they're collecting metrics and how to protect the metrics and ethical concerns and gdpr. And what yeah person.

C

Habit yeah: we didn't have a discussion about that yeah. So.

B

I think here's what I'm pointing out I think that in the last one of these meetings, Georg agreed to do that and I think in the meeting yesterday Matt, you agreed to do this, so my concern is that we don't have two people separately, doing it and just effort, because we're we're all too busy for that. Okay.

A

Well, okay, so Georg, then what came up I will happily turn that over to you and what came up yesterday is that we would craft something in the chaos project and then I can bring it to the Linux Foundation, just to make sure that what we say is: okay, yeah, just because one.

B

Make sure there aren't any legal concerns yeah.

A

Cuz we read into this this legal space, no.

D

I've already I have thoughts in my head. I just need to put them down and I'm like.

A

We don't have to have that discussion.

C

No, the gear does have his head. Yes,.

D

That's a novel thing right.

C

Now I, like going on.

C

D

So I added the OpenStack example and the Drupal example here: okay,.

A

So what focus area does this? This is a what.

D

Focus area What nonsense: what are people contributing or.

A

Is it a who who is making contributions? It's.

B

Like it's types, so I definitely don't think it's a who. Okay.

A

B

Think it's either a what or a where, like.

A

Where they're, making contributions where.

B

Our country since for organizations and people are happening.

B

B

Okay, we got to rewrite these goals for the focus areas because they don't even make sense to me.

A

We can do that too, like.

B

The what is goal understand, what contributions organizations and people are being made I'm.

A

Heading over there right now, I'm.

B

Sure, that's a real sure. That's a real sentence which.

A

One were you looking at what.

B

A

What contributions organizations and be.

B

I think that yeah I think that these are too short and that they don't they don't actually expound on the difference between the different ones. So, like the who one is basically the eggs almost exact same, not the who one wait a minute focus areas. What we're we're like right, the where one it's it's exactly the same as the what almost but, with the word, where you see what I mean where contributions from organizations that people are happening right.

A

No, it's not descriptive.

B

Beyond the who, what when and where no.

A

And like in the where statement it could be where they are making contributions geographically or where, within the project they are making contribution. So where is not?

A

Those are two different. Two vastly different wares yeah.

A

All right do you want to do this? Do.

B

This now cuz the other thing on the agenda was John's metric, but he's not here and.

A

If we did this now, that would unhinge the problem of where to put yeah.

D

Okay, I'll be right back.

A

B

So maybe we collaborate on this in the here.

A

I'm just going here and just go to the contribution type metric, just go to the bottom.

B

A

And obviously I'll just delete it out of here, but.

A

So the who I think is trying to understand the companies or the organizations or the person making the contribution. That's always what who has been to me mm-hmm.

B

B

Feel like out of the four that one's worded better than any of the others, but could still probably use a little bit of rebounding and what that means. So.

A

I have a it's a kind of a second, it's a grammar question for you. So if you're looking at this, do understanding kind of a more active tone or is it to understand.

B

Well, let's look at some of the other.

A

Focus areas yeah.

B

Which which the other working groups did you say, I really good at stuff like this D&I.

A

Has always been good.

B

Inc, okay, so DNA! Yes,.

A

They start with the same type of word, yeah.

B

Identify mm-hmm.

A

Which is similar to starting away, understand I, like.

B

Identified better than understand.

A

Already better identify the organizational and personal.

A

Contributions, engagement, yeah I'm with you that this actually reads: okay, mmm-hmm.

A

B

Like we're we're using the very bottom of the contribution type metric as just a staging area to talk about the focus area goals and then we'll delete them out of that document. How.

D

About remove them over into our meeting minutes and they can stay there.

F

A

Okay, what identify identify, what contributions organizations and people?

A

B

Yeah likes I'm gonna smoke in something when they did that way.

A

I mean just to get it so.

B

Let's just talk about it, so let.

A

Me just get it into a spot that that's readable. What.

B

What do we even I'm not sure now I've confused myself as to what we even meant by by what it's.

A

Almost like this is this is the metric. We just work done like what types of contributions. It's almost like that to me.

B

And by where do we mean like the places in the project so like github versus I, don't know something else? Well,.

A

Yeah, it could be that like or it could be geographic location, I.

B

Think geographic location is who okay.

A

Let me take a look. We didn't hold on I, keep closing my dad's.

A

Trying to see what we even have under the focus areas so who currently contains organizational diversity.

A

Who contains things like country contributors.

B

Yeah yeah because geographical location is tied to people in organizations yeah.

A

B

Separate in the project so.

A

Then, where has to be where, within the project, the contributions are being made? So two events, two github repo, two software, two documentation.

D

So there's a close relationship than between the types of contributions we just talked about in the where question.

A

If I wish Aires with some of the projects.

B

I'm not totally happy with that, but at least now I understand what it is so.

A

Then would we get rid of what who, when, where who's doing it, what.

B

Do we have what do we have and what right now, why.

A

A

Like a literally nothing.

B

No I think I think what is still different. This is this is the this is. Let me just drop some notes on the end. This is the contribution this is who made the contribution.

B

This is when the contribution was made. You're just trying to put in sentences I can understand or.

A

We could just use those sentences and.

B

Well, yeah, maybe we can- and this is- and this is where the contribution.

B

D

The project was.

A

Occurring within the project, where.

D

In the project it was me because you can make a financial contribution, but you can make it wear to the event or wear to the servers or we're working groups.

D

So the same type of contribution can be made in different parts of a project.

D

We have the same idea: I can no.

B

I think yours is better actually be yours. Leave yours, ok, back.

B

And maybe we put some examples.

D

My governing board or module or events you.

B

Have documentation events, governance.

A

B

No I'm thinking I'm thinking, where is more like what we were calling for a while in Indy and I like project places, you know what I mean I, don't.

A

Remember, project places I, don't remember that conversation yeah.

B

I was I talking about yes,.

D

Because I coined it project places and we changed it because no one understood was talking about. Yes,.

B

Exactly but this is this: is that I just now here's the funny thing all I can remember is project places, I, don't remember what we changed it to I liked it more, but now I, don't remember it all. I remembers project places well.

A

It's a literate 'iv.

B

A

C

A

B

So so what is like, like the contribution so.

B

So what might be hmm number of number of commits, like that's, that feels to me like a like a what, like.

A

B

Actual the actual contribution, counting like counting the actual contributions, not cuz like like the what is the contribution the who is who made that contribution? When is when that contribution was made, and then, where is? Where did the contribution actually happen? Gotcha.

A

B

That make sense.

A

So, who is the person? When is obviously the time?

A

Where is the within the project and the? What is the thing I know.

B

It breaks the who, what when and where but I think we need to reorder these.

B

D

That makes sense so.

B

Identify what contribution was made.

B

That doesn't make any sense I'm having a hard time articulating this, because I feel like this is the the thing.

D

Identify the contributions.

A

This is an interesting conversation, because I don't think prior I had seen the focus areas as connected as much as they are now yeah.

B

I, don't think I did either.

A

So because now it's a fairly linear series of questions that I can ask yeah.

E

A

What are the contributions who made the kind of maybe, where would be next? But what is the kind of? What are the contributions? Where do those contributions occur? Who made them and when did they make them.

E

So this was time mm-hmm.

B

B

This is percent.

A

Slash organization yeah.

B

This is the thing yeah.

A

A

Things not a terrible word in this blot MIFA Soros.

A

B

Thought so much it's a ridiculous. What what's another word for contribution? Yeah.

A

B

I've used that six times and the sentence already.

C

I'm, even good business, Soros comma just be little different word for X.

A

Actually I mean contributions is a fine word here. That's.

A

Like honestly, could this be like.

A

No narrative or something I think these are the aren't these the things that you're talking about here, so it could be like a code commit.

A

I'm trying to differentiate it or connected with where right, yeah.

B

It's like a code commit maybe like a wiki edit yeah.

D

Event, organizers, organizing.

A

A

A

These are the what's are kind of these generic things. It's a code commit it's a like what you know, I'm thinking immediately of what tom is doing with Kaos con EU.

A

So he's writing a ton of really great information about yeah locations and those trios are contributions. I mean he's taking his time he's spending after I'm trying to improve chaos, console so.

D

If you need two examples, we can also scroll up to this implementation, for, if you have a long list, I'm.

B

Trying to keep it I'm trying to keep the list of examples really really short, because this is that these are actually the goal statements. Yes,.

D

No I understand I'm, saying I feel like we're starting to match what we have up here.

B

Do we need this.

B

If, like the who is not just it's, not just individual or the organization, but it's the metrics about the individual or organization which is like how the location stuff fits in.

A

Say that again, I.

B

Added I added identified metrics about the individual or organization, because it's not just name of individual and company. It's also the details about those location and you.

A

Know could be gender, it could be there's all.

B

Kinds of stuff that would go around that.

A

So could we identify okay, yeah right I'm? Okay, with the yeah metrics is a fine word there, because.

C

There's metrics.

A

Under there, then.

B

A

I'm gonna make this.

B

I'm gonna make this shorter. Could.

A

We could we add that statement to all of them.

A

The identify metrics.

D

Maybe, instead of identified just metrics because the it's a focus area of metrics, easily identify.

B

Because that's kind of what we used in DNI, it's a similar structure.

A

Starting with a herb yeah.

B

D

That for the mature growth, the full of focus area for.

B

The focus area- oh.

D

B

I looked I, looked at the DNI focus area, page sure.

D

B

I, don't think it said metrics about I, don't.

A

B

I feel like we don't need that for all of them, but I think we do need it for for this one, just because I I think that it's not clear.

A

There is a there is more in that list in the who list tier point about what who can mean mm-hmm.

A

Do we ever did time here.

B

Can we put an example like we're doing with the others.

B

Because it's things like response time to response is one.

A

A

Small thing can I the first one. This is just like a grammar thing identify what contributions with an S, terrible.

B

A

And then in who we just called that contribution, can we call it contributions? Yeah stick with that same with, when the same with, where should.

B

We be about individuals or organizations who made contributions, yeah.

B

What's another example of the who? Well we just leave it in location. We don't need more gender.

D

F

A

This is more I.

B

Feel like this is way better mm-hmm.

A

B

I actually understand what they mean, I feel like I, understood them when we came up with them and then lost it at some point. All right well, I need to drop because I just need I'm in there too good doing meetings. Oh.

A

I'll, take these I'll put them into a pull request. The focus here right right.

B

Georg you're gonna do a pull request for the the other metric. Do you write yes,.

A

And then I sing I suggest we I know you have to go, but it's the one thing I suggest that we do the our first attempt at a rolling release of a new metric.

B

I'm up for that, okay.

A

Cool all right, all.

B

Right thanks, everybody.