CHAOSS Weekly Hangout, 12 Sep 2023

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From YouTube: CHAOSS Weekly Community Call - September 12, 2023

Description

Minutes from this meeting can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PMDWc6xMe0fNE7shxTK5_HE_ykRBG5w55_Zx5hvzsEY/edit?pli=1#heading=h.xvp9i59hyaeh

A

The annotations.

A

All right, uh hi, everybody Welcome to the chaos Community call it's good to see people here on the call good to see new faces as well, so welcome if you're new to this call. So if you are new to this call uh just kind of an overview, this is our weekly Community call and we have a lot of other working groups that do a lot of work and we use this call a lot um just to kind of talk about.

A

What's been going on across the project, you know in the other working groups, because I know everybody can't be everywhere all at once. So this is to talk about that kind of stuff. um If somebody could, as people join, could you drop the minutes in the chat for me as well cooler at a bar I like that promo code love it Europe's, Final Countdown, album, like the song.

B

A

Final Countdown yeah.

B

I wanted from a local TV station, you can send them a postcard and they have this. Video show and you'd send in this postcard and if they do your name out of a hat you'd get an album. My sister won a Debbie Gibson album.

A

I think Final Countdown is the way I'd go on that one. That's just such a big song. You probably listen to it like a hundred times in a row, yeah.

B

Probably probably.

A

I love it uh a mushroom hunting course that is like so as a mushroom hunter myself. I have no idea that there was such a thing as a mushroom hunting course.

A

Well, it was like it was like a guided tour through uh through some logo uh spots. Yeah did you find mushrooms, yeah I've found some interesting ones for sure, yeah yeah, all right right on all right, uh so I guess we'll go ahead started thanks for for putting your stuff in there.

A

um I did want to let people know that um we are at least temporarily bringing together. So we have across the chaos project. We have what are called context context groups, and these are groups that are um they exist, to help different people in different contexts. Think about metrics and metrics models, without necessarily in software, without necessarily being involved in the Deep level details of what goes on in the chaos project.

A

So, for example, there are times where we have to actually publish you, know author and publish a metric or author and publish a metric model, which is a collection of metrics, there's kind of some some details into getting that done. These context, groups are meant to kind of abstract people from that lower level work or that kind of work, um and just get them to think about the metrics that are important in their particular context.

A

We have a couple different working groups or I'm, sorry context groups. um The corporate ospos is one of those context groups we work with the to-do group.

A

We also have the university context group and a science context group, so scientific software context, group, The, University context group was working just with that open source program offices inside of universities, to which there's kind of an emerging Trend here and scientific software, we're working a lot with folks from numpy kind of the non-focus world, and so there seem to be quite a bit of overlap between these two groups and instead of having two meetings, I think for the time being, we're just going to kind of bring those two context, groups together and see what kind of overlap there is that seem to make sense.

A

Also, logistically um I, don't know if you're familiar with sustain the sustain OSS effort. They also are starting an academic working group. That kind of focuses on universities and science, as well so in in an effort to kind of work better or work more aligned with sustain this makes sense. We brought this up in the scientific software context group this week and it was well received, so we're gonna we're basically just logistically we're going to stop the scientific software meeting time and just move everything over to to University all right.

A

So that's just FYI for people um any questions or comments on that.

A

Okay, um the next thing that I want to put on the agenda is I. This is just me thinking about something on a cool morning this morning, but um do we do you know if we have any way of kind of thinking about metrics or metrics models um in a way that that would be tied with a company releasing intellectual property, or you know something internal to a company that would be released at a foundation and kind of the how we would think about metrics and metrics models along that path?

A

Does anybody do have we had this conversation at all? Everything seems to be about like existing communities, so.

C

Is this the is this the taking of a piece of software that was not open, sourced and making.

D

C

Sore stories yeah because I think that's a different path than the conception of a new open source project from the start, um and the questions would be different. Okay,.

A

Well, do you want to I.

C

Mean I think you know when you release it, when you decide you're going to create a new open source project, I think you can, if you're experienced, I, think a lot of Foundations and other organizations sort of handle that it seems I I think when companies release software that they've already built into open source. Sometimes that works really well.

C

I mean I, think there's a very nice pipeline, for example at Google, for doing that I think in smaller open source firms that can be kind of uneven, um but the questions I've heard asked most often relate to licensing when it comes to intellectual property and copyright.

D

A

B

Yeah I mean I, think I I think it depends a little bit on the foundation, but um a lot of the foundation sort of assume that you're moving in an existing open source project into a foundation. Okay,.

A

B

Kind of how the cncf works. That's how a lot of the a lot, but not all of the Linux Foundation projects um end up in in the Linux Foundation. Their existing open source projects usually run by a company and then contributed to a foundation. I think it's!

B

It's I I think that that's the more common use case that might be my bias, working mostly in the cncf ecosystem, but I think it's become a relatively rare for people to take a proprietary product and as their um as their you know, like the first I, don't know, I, don't see a lot of projects now, releasing it into open source as part of putting it into a foundation.

B

Okay, usually I, think existing open source projects I think that used to be a lot more common before, like I know, a lot of Apache projects ended up in the Apache Foundation. That way.

A

B

I know VMware did a couple of those um a while ago way before I worked for them, but they took internal projects and, as a part of open sourcing, it put it into the foundation. Okay,.

D

In my other thirds, I have observed that a lot of companies did that, uh especially which they were not maintaining it, so they tried to release it and let the open source Community maintain it. One.

E

Of the strategy.

D

That many of the companies have interviewed especially a lot.

A

Of people that especially.

B

Highlighted this.

A

D

Of it, okay, that's.

B

Generally considered pretty bad practice, though, and I think Apache is one of the only foundations that will take that type of project.

D

Or or even I have observed that, uh like some someone, some companies have started open source project and then they release their intellectual property to that project, and let it continue on over the course of time that proper uh that technology has been totally revamped. But this is how it initiated they started. The project release the intellectual property to the project to continue start growing and then evolve over the period of time.

A

Okay, so the if the true, if the trend is kind of this now you know what I mean moving so an.

E

Organization from what I'm understanding the.

A

More common Trend right now is for an organization to release IP as their own open source project. Go through that effort and from there that open source project could necessarily be contributed to a foundation which would support that project. I.

B

Would say it's a little bit different than that, because um an open source, the the IP is the is the the thing that I um I think isn't isn't quite right, because when, when VMware releases, an open source project, VMware still owns the intellectual property, um so I'm, not a lawyer but like they still own, like the trademarks and um the legal stuff associated with that project.

B

Okay, um if it's one of their open source projects, so there's no real way to give that to a community, um because because there's if, unless the community is unless it's a non-profit organization or another company, there has to be somebody to transfer those legal assets to I, don't think you can just.

B

To a community.

A

But that's what.

B

The other thing I've seen is that, like the the legal stuff owned by an individual um so like Lena, storables, actually still owns the Linux trademark, it's administered by the Linux Foundation, but um but he actually owns the the trademark for okay, so it has to be owned. The assets have to be owned by somebody yep.

C

Yeah I mean I, think the cases where trademarks have actual value or I mean there's the top of the list. Things that we're aware of like Linux, but there's a lot of trademarks that have less value in open source.

A

So, okay, so is there? Is there value for us in thinking about the metrics that we would care about as even just step one irrespective of the trademarks at the moment, but as a company releases or um builds Community around a project that they're working on number one and I think the answer is kind of yes on that I think we have talked about that um and then two perhaps moving that project to a foundation that the complexities do we care about that?

A

Second, one at all, would a company care about that or a foundation or are they the same? Is it just kind of this ongoing set of metrics that we've always talked about.

F

Oh so they're not the same, but I would love to hear other people's thoughts here.

F

Just in terms of like you care about different things want to send to your company versus when it's in a foundation and I think, as we've moved a lot of projects into foundations like the cncf and that just sort of changed the composition and investment levels um in a way that I think it changes what you care about from metrics perspective and I think there's definitely been things that we look at as part of the transition that were different than when this is all managed internally versus all under a foundation um again different people care about different things and I.

F

Think there's also value in looking at the metrics in the transition to see. Are we actually abiding by the Community Values in this transition? Because if you are changing from something that might be more company-centric to a more Community managed model and I think that takes time also my entire screen froze so I. Don't know your.

C

Video is Frozen as well, but we still hear you yeah.

B

We can still okay, okay, that was really distracting and I lost. My.

C

B

So so, plus one never thinks Sophia said I mean I. I do think that they they are different. Metrics I do think that they would be interesting to measure I mean it's things like so a lot of Foundations when they look at so they don't accept. Cncf doesn't accept every project that wants to get in right. There's like there's like criteria criteria. I was just in a meeting where they were talking about which projects would get in and which ones wouldn't.

B

um And it's things like you know, do they do they have contributors from multiple companies? Do they have a you know? Do they have a governance? How how mature is their governance model um and some of those things matter more than more than others and they're? Not none of them are necessarily deal breakers, but they are. There are things that I think a lot of Foundations look at when they're looking at bringing projects in okay.

C

There's certainly um I, don't know if you saw this at VMware done, you don't need to comment, but I think there's also a lot of aspiration to build communities around open source projects within some companies and that aspiration isn't always realized. When you go back and look at the commits, it still ends up with a pretty small elephant. Factor.

D

C

Projects that are not substantial, like Linux or kubernetes,.

B

Oh, that's, that's absolutely true. I think yeah.

D

B

A

B

It's a great idea to open source their project and then they you know and then for lots of reasons. They they fizzle out and don't don't go anywhere. Managing.

C

The community would.

B

A

Hard yeah um done with the cncf. Is there a period of time where, um after the admission criteria are kind of looked at? Where there's a point where that stops like you passed you're in, we don't look anymore. You know.

B

um Yes and no, like inactive projects, do get archived if there's really nobody, nobody working on them. um So that's that's one path out, there's also within the CNC Alpha Pap up, so most projects come in um at the sandbox level and then there's an incubating level and then a graduated level. So we kind of expect projects.

B

um You know if they're successful to eventually apply to become an incubating project and that comes with a whole set of more more rigorous criteria and then even more criteria on top of that for a graduated, so.

A

Certainly are a deeper reflection on whatever those.

B

Answers yeah and they also within the cncf every project, I. Think every project does an annual report short, so that might just be incubating to graduate it I. Don't remember for sure. If we do that, okay.

A

um Well, this is really helpful. Thank you. I just wanted to see if there was interest here and I really appreciate the feedback, um I think, maybe it's something to think about.

A

It's kind of that I like that idea of this transition. This transition point between the two and kind of what the things you might have looked for before and one of the things you might look for after we're kind of right at that point of inflection. So thank you for that.

F

um Oh yeah go ahead. This is the last thought is I.

F

Think Don also mentioned I think this is true for other foundations that there are specific metrics that are already being used and might be published too on the foundation side, um whereas I think on the company side it might be a little bit more opaque, um but that can actually that can be maybe a helpful reference point to start with is to look at what those criteria are, for both exception into the foundation as well as graduation um or like I guess, cncf has multiple levels, but Apache also has incubation and graduation as well. Yeah.

D

F

So I think it might be interesting just to see what what metrics foundations care about, because that actually might be information. You could go look up.

B

Yeah I think it'd be really interesting to maybe um yeah to look at that, not just for like Apache and the cncf, but also like Eclipse. What's what's their criteria for the projects, I think it'd be interesting to see what what metrics they're already or what criteria they're already using. We could build some metrics around that.

D

B

I'd be interested to see how they're different.

A

All right cool uh that was great I, really appreciate it. uh Okay, any last comments on that.

D

Thank you again.

A

uh Okay, so I think one of the things we were talking about Sean and kind of putting you on the spot, the time and time and time again on this issue, but um we so I just think we it's.

D

G

C

So it's a pretty useful activity that we're gonna start working on here. Yeah.

A

So, um just to give you you want to talk about it Sean or do you want me to introduce it.

C

I mean I, think I think um we talked about it last week, maybe and the week before so I mean.

C

The idea is that um we want to try to we've been working on this for a number of years, but we want to try to build more Community into the software side of chaos, and so one of those tools is auger and as a first initiative on this new strategy for building Community around software, um we're gonna engage people in building apis that fulfill chaos, metric requirements from auger many already exist, and um they haven't been mapped to the current chaos metric that they correspond with um set the documentation activity and then many don't exist and need to be created within auger, and so there's a a pretty defined path that we've kind of started to lay down for how to do that and I'm.

C

Looking to schedule like uh every other week meeting starting next week um on the chaos calendar to address software community, and so that could take a very broad view. It doesn't have to be just auger, um but the auger API is like the first little project with that will take on um in that. In that effort.

C

A

Of it, okay, thank you, yeah well said um so. I think the the I think this can lead to a couple things. We talked about this in the metrics model working group meeting a little bit earlier today uh with folks like yahui, um that by developing the endpoints require and having these, it makes a lot of sense just from the perspective of having our metrics and metrics models kind of architected into the chaos software. That makes a lot of sense like we should trying to get that. Mapping done and so I think this.

A

This first set of goals is to kind of kind of do that um yeah, exactly yeah, and in these meetings I, don't think they're meant to be. You had implied that they, you don't want them to be like hackathon meetings, but.

C

Yeah, we've done that and um I think I. Think uh I think it was helpful to the people who participated, but um the participation wasn't even and it um it didn't lead. It didn't lead to community uh around the software. So uh try something different yep.

A

um And then what came up earlier today, too, is kind of stemming from from these endpoints um could could this is down the road this? It could provide people with access to the agar data. Yeah I mean.

C

A

Think remix that in ways that could be meaningful in their own particular data, science need spaces. Yeah.

C

No I think um you know we're certainly.

C

That's that's something that I think auger can do in a place that auger can sit in in the chaos Community.

C

um We we do have a public instance that anyone can add repos to and so I think the the only thing that we would really need to add to our API that we don't have is a some kind of rate limiting and also um a way of sort of letting people submit anything that they want to search for data on, but also not let people um like browse the whole data, because we don't want to get in trouble with GitHub or gitlab or any of the platform vendors for repurposing data right.

C

We want to provide a research service and as a service to open source companies, but we're not you know. This is just a community goal. It's not. We need to make it clear, I think that we're not trying to eat anyone's lunch or anything like that. Yeah.

A

And that we're not I think in that latter part like over we've talked about this like over extending ourselves exactly, but it's a service that we we provide and people use and expect to be there and expect to be always there yeah.

C

A

Have the resources to really maintain that sometimes no.

C

And it's um yeah and as grimoir lab knows, you know it costs money and takes effort to service people and make sure customers and users are happy. So yeah there's a certain amount of that. That can happen on a entirely open source project like auger right now, but we do have. We do have some. um You know we're getting some engineering support from Red Hat and um some other Enterprises, so I mean interest in supporting the tool. Okay,.

A

Would be great too, because in these meetings that you would have like these are the kind of things we can talk through in these meetings? I'm just trying to bring some of that here, so people can see what that conversation could look like. Oh.

C

I appreciate that, thank you I'm too able to put it on the agenda so perfect.

A

Yeah I keep putting it on the agenda because I I love that that first meeting sounds really cool yeah uh all right. So, let's see we have a couple more things on the agenda. We have I see. Somebody headed one here at the bottom, which is great um I did just want to say for open source, Summit, Europe I know a number of you are are going I didn't put all the titles here, but this is a list of what appears to be chaos and Chaos related talks at open source, Summit Europe, which is great.

A

It's honestly to have four talks, uh is really nice. From my perspective, that's really nice representation, uh Daniel esquerdo I, think is doing the most I think he's on three out of four of these talks. So thank you Daniel. If you're on um so anyway, click on those and and take a look I know uh don is on a couple. I believe I think you have a talk and a panel if I'm not mistaken.

A

So um so you know, thanks for everybody, for participating in open source, Summit, Europe and I hope you have a great time. It's it's next week, I mean it starts, Thursday I know it; no, it starts earlier than that. Doesn't it is it.

C

Next week, wow.

A

B

Yeah, it kind of starts on Monday I, think the main event's Tuesday through Thursday yeah.

A

So um I think should what do you think about meetings for next week? I think we should still probably have them I, don't think a ton of people are going like it enough to not have them. So my guess is that we'll just continue these meetings, that's.

C

That's um I would yeah I, don't think there'll be enough. People there to not have the meetings. I know some people will be there and won't be at the meetings and that's okay. Yep.

B

C

B

There's a plan to have a sustained OSS.

B

Varsity time and I think we're gonna diversity meeting.

D

B

Do wonder about the osbo working group since I think a lot of the osbo people will be at okay.

A

B

A

Okay, that's fair. We could always just cancel that.

B

A

Then pick it up in two weeks, not a problem: yeah, okay, no, that's fair, um okay, great uh uh I'll, reach out to Gary and just see what he thinks on that as well. uh I, always liked them. Well, not always I'd like to point out the open source. Summit Europe is uh chaos, event, gold event, badge recipient. So it's always great to see I'd like to just always say thanks to the to the Linux foundation, events team for always going through the process of taking time to badge all of their events.

A

They've really helped us think through the metrics that we use for badging events, uh and it's just.

E

A

Really great to work with everybody at the LF events, team they're, really just a great group of people um I- think we're probably at about 120 events badged at this point, which is great um and then I did want to point out that on Thursday from two in the afternoon to four in the afternoon, uh open Euler, which I've learned is said differently, um is going to be hosting a workshop, and these are the the proposed structures for that.

A

Workshop I talked a little bit with yahui today, because he'll be also at that workshop and I think the intention is to and I did, reach out to Daniel as well to kind of just by committee.

A

Talk about these things in the workshop, so it's only two hours and I think it'd be pretty easy to just kind of have everybody uh lead around me, so I I'm, gonna post you who he's putting together um a title for the workshop and a small, abstract and I'm going to share with the LF events team to try to get it on the calendar.

A

um So everybody's welcome to join. Oh yeah. Everybody's welcome to join speaking of joining I did want to tell you too, if you're not actually going to be attending open source, Summit Europe. uh You can just follow this link to the Linux Foundation YouTube channel and everything. Is there it's free and as far as I know, they're streaming everything not just a select group of things. So, for example, like Don your talk I is that, like is that gonna be streamed? It seems like it is from the way I was reading. It.

C

The last several OSS NES they've tried to stream everything. um I, don't remember: I wasn't at OSS Europe last year, so I don't know. If that's new there or not my.

A

Quick read implied that it was, but I could be right.

B

Yeah I think that's what they did for the past one so I'm, assuming that that they'll do that again. Okay,.

A

um And as far as I understand too, you can just go right to this YouTube channel. There's no like um registration required for virtual attendance. You can just go right there and watch. So that's great uh all right. So the last thing on the agenda is Scout flow. I'm, not sure who put that on there.

E

E

What what exactly I'm gonna talk about this, so we got in touch with chaos uh and George like six or two seven went back while I was, you know, researching more about Open, Source, commercial, open source and everything so just to give you a story of how everything started right. So uh we are running an agency last year where we tried to use various open source tools, and during that we came across various issues or you know, challenges in the in the space.

E

Firstly being getting, you know the right tool discovered if even if you find the right tool getting it deployed self-hosted on your infrastructure, uh it's kind of hard for someone like me who is not into devops not of much techie. So during this journey we are lucky hey.

E

Can we solve this issue for the community, as well as for the businesses who are looking to you know, adopt open source and replace their current proprietary strength right, so we are like okay, let's first start with the marketplace, so that's how Scout Flow came up and we built an open source marketplace where we listed some commercial open source.

E

Let us start with some niche uh solve for the niche and then eventually we can expand to all open source. There are a few products which you know are like have a great potential to be in the commercial part, but still are into uh the free open source things. So this is how we are you know: gonna expand to from commercial to this kind of product to all uh free opens or soft.

E

So uh my agenda to you know join this meeting was to because I really love what chaos is doing with grimo lab and above I have studied these two of your product and a total loved it because I've gone end to end with the all the Matrix that you are going to study on the open source- and this is something I feel that if we can provide this evaluation to the uh visitors or someone who wants to adopt open source tool, how easy it will be for them to make a decision and how easy it for the open source Founders to portray their products.

E

So it's, like you know, uh build up shifting from a complex documentation to a lot of text. Heavy websites and everything it was simple evaluations over order dashboard. This is something uh that you know we are aiming to. You know work with chaos for this outflow. We already had a meeting with uh George, where we, you know, showed what exactly we are going to do with this product and we came.

E

We joined this call with the same agenda, because I heard a lot about this community that how supported you guys are is to you know, get this insightful discussions going on, get more feedback and yeah that's pretty much. It.

A

uh Thanks uh Georg, do you wanna you you were in the meeting? Do you want to add anything.

G

Yeah, so the way that I see, um chaos and Scott flow is that uh Scout flow can be a front-end user interface for people looking at using an open source project using open source, a commercial offering for a commercial uh using commercial offering for an open source tool and in that evaluation. We'll talk a lot about here in chaos.

G

How we use metrics to determine is this a good project, a good Community, to rely on to build on to use that tool and if we can work together to expose our projectile metrics in the interface of scout flow? And that sounds like what scoutful is already starting to work on and we can as a chaos Community reflect on. Is this the most impactful metric to show? Is this the right way to calculate it or to show it and then even better if, in the back end, Scout flow is using agar or grimor lab?

G

Then I think we have a nice Synergy where, where we have a nice way of working together on both technology and providing these metrics at a bigger scale,.

E

So that what uh what we are planning to do is introduce a scout flow, Health score mechanism, uh which is backed by a remote lab or agorp apis, as well as open, ssf, API, so open ssf again is a Linux Foundation uh initiative.

E

So uh what exactly we are doing is evaluating a open source tool on the basis of various metrics, which mainly has security code, Quality Maintenance support, uh community activeness business Matrix and uh to evaluate this, we are using sources like agor and Remo lab and open ssf, getting the data running over algorithm on top of that to assign a score to each evaluated data and show it in form of graphical and uh numeric values, so, basically setting for Benchmark for each kind of features. So here what do we? What exactly is going to happen?

E

Is a user who wants to onboard opens a stool can skip through all the you know, data heavy and information part and directly do a comparison into product on the basis in this code, build distributed account breakdown among various matrixes. This is something that we are. You know trying to work with George and cables to introduce.

A

Does the is the marketplace up right now? Yes,.

E

The marketplaces I have attached the link in the center so.

A

I will okay.

A

E

See I'm sorry, I.

A

Just missed that, yes,.

C

Yeah I just said in chat. Marketplace is one of those words that I'm not sure I fully understand what that means is exactly I I, don't I, don't have any opinions about it, I'm just kind of curious to understand what would we? What would be we, what we do would I just like register my projects like I, do on the compass site and then get metrics from them and then no.

A

I think Scout flow. You could tell me if I'm wrong, but Scout flow provides open source alternatives for people to think about. Yes,.

E

So um it's basically a niche, a weighted marketplace where you have been shortlisted all the open source alternative to current proprietary stack. So just for an example, if you're using any uh any, um for example, you need a open source alternate to a current inter comment.com is a SAS tool for uh for communication, and you need something which can be cheaper as well as uh well, backed by support of Open Source. You can just come to us Outlook search intercom and you will be getting all the Alternatives.

E

That underground has, for example, uh chat for chat, which is a great alternative to the intercom. Currently, so what you can do find such Alternatives evaluate it through all the data on the information product, videos and images you have and if you're more interested, we have a feature called a Sandbox. So what exactly? That means you can have a free trial without signing in or integrating any of your data. Just click on the sandbox go to the uh already pre-hosted uh product.

E

Our cloud get the you know feel of how product is once you evaluate it. Come to Marketplace. We again have our scoring mechanism in place. You can go through this course see. What are the metrics that are evaluated? Does that match with your evaluation criteria as well, once that is done, you have a simple one-click deployment available here, as you can see, deploy button been on the market, and here this is. This is the time where you evaluated the tool.

E

You are confirmed that you know I'm sure that I'm going to use this tool now, just click on the deploy and the tool is in your uh Cloud infra within few clicks within few minutes. So this is a complete process which might take like few days or a week which you are trying to reduce it in few minutes of your hours. This is something what Scout Law Atlas does as a Marketplace, so I'm having uh vedant, who is the co-founder of software in the call so like where and jump in.

E

If you want to continue with this yeah.

H

I think I I, hey guys, thanks for thanks for having us um I'll keep it short, because I'm sure the description has gone too long. um So we want to help with three major things. One is to get a quick evaluation of which tool can be the perfect replacement to your proprietary stack uh and with the sandbox that we have. Sandbox is a very simple way of getting a quick free trial without even self-hosting an open source tool. So we basically self-hosted in our infrastructure. We remove all the barriers of actually using the tool.

H

So when you click on, if um whoever is sharing the screen Matt, can you can you toggle on Sandbox on the left side?

H

Awesome uh if you can click on any other sandboxes? Essentially it's like a is it as a public demo, environment yeah. uh So if anyone is evaluating Sentry, they would have had to essentially self-hosted here they don't have to. They can skip even adding their credit card or an email ID, and they can start utilizing it. So that's the second step where you can quickly evaluate a tool which is dummy data, and the third step is what Scout flow would help you do. Is uh you know self-host it in your infrastructure?

H

Even if you do not have like a devops background, so this is a second product called Scout for deploy, um which will help. You provide the infrastructure out of the box, um which is a kubernetes infrastructure and you can deploy it within within a single click, so that was a short description of the overall platform. I hope it made sense.

C

A

So go ahead, no.

C

I think um there's lots of lots of possibilities here um for introducing people to open source, so I think that's exciting. So.

A

The the request, the the conversation here with Scout flow is, is it simply like as I'm looking over here on the right side? I can see stars, forks and others. So there's a certain amount of information that you provide two potential users about in this case, maybe just the Repository you know Health like in quotes, um but using either gramora lab or auger on the back end with chaos, metrics or metrics models to kind of provide a richer description of the community behind the software. Is that correct? That's.

H

Correct so uh basically you want to have businesses evaluate all of these metrics in like one single score, so you can imagine that it can be just like a numerix code given uh with a lot more details that they can go deeper into, but it's purely backed by Agora, and you know I.

A

Gotcha I gotcha, so this is essentially what in this case, what chaos is providing well or what the tools and metrics from chaos would provide, is just uh richer services that Scout flow offers to better understand the choices: okay, gotcha, um okay. This is interesting um uh like where how what I don't know where you are like thinking wise um resources, you know like we got to think through some of these things, I think.

H

Show up so we basically have like a formula in place in terms of what we really require from a data point perspective and we've gone through the documentation and we're glad that a lot of the data points are already covered by Agora itself uh and George told us about it. So we will be pretty happy after that.

H

We will be doing like a quick evaluation of this and we'd love to get some support from your end in terms of doing like a quick POC with this, um what we can do is we can give you a couple of scores that we generate with our formula using a Gore apis um and then get do a couple of back and forth in terms of if there are any questions um and then in the entire setup is going to be something that we are pretty new to.

H

So that might be something that you can if there's a way to help us out, that'll, be really helpful.

A

So I'm looking at gone as the auger dude I.

C

Mean I think uh it just really. um We should probably have a side conversation about what it is that you aim to do and what.

A

C

Might be I, think I think with auger or grimorlab whatever tool you choose, I think something that's a public offering like this. You know we should. We should talk in a separate conversation, probably about um how big you want to go and and how you would scale that and whether you want to use an instance that we're hosting or whether you want to stand up your own, and if you do that, then just we could talk about the hardware requirements if you're going to kind of scale.

H

For sure, I think that that should be. That should be perfect. Sean.

C

Yeah so um I'll message you and are you in? Are you on our slack Channel um yeah.

H

We do um do you think, do you think we can uh if it's okay, if we could add you to a slack Channel, if that's okay or.

C

Yeah, you can add me to a slack Channel, but I'll, probably message you in the chaos one sure just because yeah I got it. I got a lot of slack channels. I'll be honest.

A

I'm curious, if other people on this call have a reaction.

E

A

This that they want to talk about or questions that they might have.

A

My thoughts excitement hesitation, whatever it might be. Oh.

H

Yeah, please be, please be candid with us: I think um abandoned feedback.

F

If I stuck some in the chat, it's really basic um I see some things. I already see a license popping up on the right and others say other and.

D

F

D

F

Slightly more controversy here, but of some license shifts away from open source licenses that are defined by OSI. So, just if you are listing things here that are not under OSI approved licenses, then it should have some sort of acknowledgment of that you can use direct references from either OSI and spdx also has a list as well. There's something you can just reference.

H

Interesting interesting yeah, we will definitely get into it. I think we we do want to spend a lot more time on um giving really good context Behind These licenses as well, because when we spoke to businesses, I think they're struggling to just understanding the value behind any any specific license. So that's also one Loop that we'd love to close.

A

Cool uh I, one of the one of my things that I just put out there, too, is. If this does kind of move forward, ask that you know you you both can contribute in the Upstream to either Oracle more lab.

A

As you see, things, yeah need to be addressed or changed um and then like open and kind of open, like kind of what we're having here like opening candid discussions about challenges around metrics or challenges around whatever it might be, is really well received because putting the metrics into practice um kind of like, as we had talked about the you know, the Dei badging working with the Linux events. Foundation teams, like they've, had a lot of feedback for us because they're the ones that are often deploying the metrics and thinking about them in practice. Yeah.

E

A

Say it's been great to work with it's because they're giving us really great feedback on how we can make improvements in our own processes, um so that would be great, at least from my end as well. Yeah.

C

I mean I, think anytime, someone tries to apply the things that we've built. It helps us to make them better, so yep.

H

Yeah for sure, I think once we deploy it, we will be releasing this as well and we'll uh once everything works out, um we'll be having like an alpha and a Beta release. So whatever feedback we're getting from our our customers are users about the score. I think that'll be really interesting for you know discussing over the school yeah because they will be all business owners looking at it. For the first time, yep.

A

I agree: okay, great.

H

Well, thank you for sharing that thanks a lot thanks a lot man thanks for Sean yeah, that was great.

C

That was awesome. Thank you. Any.

A

Other comments or questions.

G

um To um also advertise the meeting that we have tomorrow for the data science group, because we invited Scout flow also to that meeting to dig more into specifics.

A

I'm, muted and that meeting is tomorrow at uh 11, A.M, U.S Central, so please feel free to join and Don will be leaving I, think, okay right on all right. Well, that was a really nice discussion on a variety of different things. So I really appreciate the the feedback and everybody's thoughts and all that kind of stuff so um have a great day and we'll catch you on the next meeting, wherever that might be.

B

Bye Everybody Take.

A

Care everybody bye.

B