City of Binghamton, NY CAUD, 4 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: 2022.10.04 CAUD

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Contents
0:07:00 Call to Order
0:07:20 55 Main Street
0:47:20 89 Walnut Street
0:52:00 Station Square (45 Lewis Street)
0:58:45 128 Prospect Street
1:07:00 28 Clarke Street

A

Did you catch John, Strong, Enough,.

B

Yes, I I did he said he was passing his street at the time, so he was only about five minutes away. Oh.

C

But he is on the way. Yes.

B

B

Ken just to update you two on the agenda um and we can do this officially they're uh the applicant for 229 State Street has withdrawn their application. For that case.

C

A

So when I turned the job, when I turned the mic back on, so you know before I figured it out to be reported, um it uh gives feedback to the projector where your voice is coming from now. So.

C

It'll be a little inconvenient.

A

C

D

A

The mic on to be reported and if you would have to be heard so.

B

Can you just uh when you know as we go back and forth, can you turn off the mic? Is it? Is it easy.

A

My mic is off now so I'll. Keep it off until I have to say something double back so.

C

A

When, when Ken has to speak to the audience, that's what he's talking about I'll.

C

B

C

A

C

C

A

A

It's probably something.

B

That Juliet I'm not sure if this would help either, but you may want to mute your uh profile.

C

Oh I'm not sure if it were Let's test it, because when I muted it you couldn't hear us, let me try.

B

B

uh Yeah I can't hear you, the planning department is muted. Is that the way it has to be.

C

C

Do you want to try and muting it up there.

B

It is unmuted up there. The planning department account is unmuted, you're unmuted as well Juliet.

B

A

B

Does that help at all with the feedback issue.

A

We can test it, it's not too bad foreign.

A

It's weird for it's gonna, be weird for me: okay, but we'll do it.

A

Sean, can you hear me yes,.

B

A

How's, this same thing: better: okay,.

A

B

Okay, I can hear you can.

C

D

Are you still there.

B

John, can you hear us yes, I can foreign.

A

Okay, we have a forum uh welcome to uh Claude October 4th um our first order of business approval of minutes from August, 2nd 11 Wilson John made the motion a second second by Dan, all in favor all.

C

A

Thank you um first. First order on the agenda is 55, Main, Street and uh gentleman's here to present, but Sean, would you give us the background, as you typically do,.

B

Yet yes, I can give you the background. um Let me pull up the application, so 55 Main Street. The commission may remember from a few years ago this appeared before the board previously um and at the time the applicant uh presented to the board and informed uh the commission that they were seeking to do repair to the porch, but the specifics, weren't really completely known at the time, um and so now that the applicant is once again appearing before the commission for the the essentially the same application.

B

But this time they provided additional details um for the porch columns and the porch capitals that are going to be used in the replacement. Those are all included with the staff report and included Dimensions as well, um and just to remind the commission a little bit um so when I did an inspection of the property. Now, probably let me go to the staff images um several years ago. I, you know uncovered that. Obviously the porch had additional significance, because it was a porch that had been removed from another property on Chenango Street.

B

The original, like Stone Mansion, that the stone opera house later replaced when that building was removed. The porch was transferred to this property at 55 Main Street, so the porch has additional significance for this local Landmark.

B

um However, when I did the inspection and and met with the applicant at the site, it was clear that the porch had been repaired previously and parts had been either uh completely replaced with with new material.

B

As you can see, this is all this was original, porch, material or seemingly original porch material that had all been replaced, and that seemed consistent with the materials that are shown in and some of the previous photos that we had in staff files of the porch, where it looks like some sort of porch replacement had occurred previously, um and so obviously this porch has been previously repaired, um and so the applicant is seeking to do that again um uh in this case.

B

So uh although the porch has original significance and additional significance to this property, it seems like it's been uh either repaired or replaced in kind previously, and the applicant is seeking to do that again today.

B

So going back to the current proposal, we have the edition of um four columns and the specifications were presented here as shown on the screen. Can everyone see that.

B

Okay and then the capital choice is here as well.

B

All right, so this is a um a fiber glass column, so it will be of a different material than the replacement material. Currently.

A

All right, thank you, um so, in your inspection, Sean, the reason this would be replaced is the deterioration of the columns and the capitals correct.

C

A

I mean it's not my specialty I, don't know if John wants to comment about the restoring this type of stuff, but basically what you're saying is the porch has had submitted materials prior.

B

Yes, so the it was clear to me when I did the inspection that the materials that composed the porch had been replaced. Previously, it is not the original material um and I didn't see original material.

B

um So it's clear to me that the porch had had undergone repair previously.

A

Sean, yes, are they replacing all of the columns on the porch or just four.

B

Four were indicated in the product specifications so that.

C

Is what this is before.

B

The commission.

A

Maybe uh applicant, would you like to give some clarification yep.

B

Is the microphone on for the applicant.

A

Oh, please, please, sorry, all right upon the um existing uh columns um were probably in good shape. This was three years ago uh when we originally started this process to renovate the report. The original trim package that was on there was actually falling down uh to head level. It was dangerous um to a point where it may fall on somebody, so it would remove. uh We started to do the group over again and had um wanted to replace the problem with fiberglass. uh That was actually there already.

A

So it's something in that particular work over there. I can pass it one picture on what happened here.

A

um So that was our intention. Sean stopped me uh had mentioned that it's a historic relevance that we might have to build on exactly uh to the specifications that was Prior.

A

uh So now it's been kind of waiting um to try to get approval uh to use the um Choppers and the columns that we have indicated in our proposal um had the points that we requested. We, our judgment, is that we would need four uh rain weather has hit them uh they're, not looking great. We may have to do more than fourth of points. It's going to be what is structurally sound and what can be saved.

A

um You know what is relevant uh still. My idea is anything that I can save, that is original material uh I would put on the front of the house based on Main Street and then any synthetic uh items that we used would be facing the driveway.

A

um That's what I'd like to do uh again. I'm gonna have to support that route. Try to take these columns down and see if they still are, you know stable and we can use them if we can't we'd have to replace them all with a synthetic material um I'm guessing, because I have not taken them down. That's probably half of the ones that are still standing are original and others may be composite.

A

I would not know until I actually put them apart, so the ones that I did take apart are the three I found that um one of them were was already replaced with some positives.

A

uh There's seven total so I'd like to have the the uh three in front.

A

uh There may be a spot that uh had when Shawn do you have the original picture you could put back because hey okay, eight, okay, so yeah I think already yeah when I'd Fallen already I. Think by the time hey Sean. Can you go to the um previous condition of the porch that picture foreign.

A

Eight total columns.

A

Yeah yeah I believe that attack here, so if we can keep any original material up front, we'd like to um also asking about the trim package that was on top it's tied into the roof in a dropping system for the rain, that's what caused the rot can be hard to kind of duplicate that um reveal.

A

We can do our best to try to duplicate it again, probably be using synthetic material, I'd like to bring it back to its. um You know, to appease uh the city: uh try to bring it back to close the original um look as we can. The look of the roof is going to kind of be hard to duplicate, but uh we would certainly give it our best effort.

A

My understanding is that the columns and column Toppers were the um items that were moved and brought to this site, uh which uh we're trying to preserve that look. I wasn't sure if we were trying to preserve the um both of the top or the column Toppers. The reveal of the print but I mean I'll. Do that? If we had to?

A

Yes, is the answer to that question: okay, I, just I want to get this done. um I'm I'm, tired of it looking like this I'm sure the city is also a guy. It's been an eye store for me, but we haven't really known what direction go into.

A

You know what I mean so if they can approve the material that we have uh given you, then we'll move forward, hopefully before the winter time, at this point becoming uh not only an eyesore, but it's becoming dangerous and I'm afraid what I'm going to find when I start this rebuild. If there's so much rot at this point, that the whole structure group structure um has to come down, you know the floorboards are rotted, the uh framing underneath is explained they built it on uh brick, homes that are straight sturdy.

A

uh The the original beams underneath can stay. uh The decking on the porch uh would definitely have to be replaced. In my opinion, the the ceiling his tongue and groove I can save portions of it. Try to replicate the other Fortune with some Groove that wouldn't be an issue I'm afraid the uh the decking on the roof would have a small.

A

Probably the support for the roof as far as like the Raptors would probably have to be replaced. So I mean let's have a couple questions. Yes, so are you looking to replace more than four of the columns with a composite column, um I win and capital I don't want to but like if it came down to it, came down to it because they're deemed um that they wouldn't support the weight of the porch, then I think we'd have to okay.

A

uh So obviously we're trying to keep the original ones if they are in good shape can be restored easily we'd put those all in front Okay. So that's our goal. Okay, I understand what the city wants. uh I'm on board, with that and I'd like to put the nice columns up front if we can save them, I certainly would do that I would put the synthetic ones on the side now.

A

um The only issue I have is what, if I have two that are good, the rest are bad.

A

Do we put mismatching columns up front so so let me ask you a question yeah, so The Columns that you're looking to replicate with a composite material they're, not going to be an exact replication of the existing columns, correct and we're talking about the base, the column and the capital correct. Okay, so so there's a different um shape.

A

Okay, it will still be polluted.

A

With the ionic Capital yep, but they're, not an exact replica, they are not so what's do you know what difference there is uh yes um scene. I can actually give you the pictures um between what theirs look like and what was um original wood.

A

um So with that being said, I am guessing. This is the original wood I have not taken this one down, but it does look exactly like this positively that you can see is composite once you get a good look at it um and the indication of that being the composite of plastic rings that are on this one, and you can see them in this picture now. This is one that is composite. That was existing. This is one that I have not taken down.

A

They look almost identical, um so in my opinion, these all may be compatible, but I haven't taken them down to inspect.

B

That's consistent with what I observed. Yes,.

A

A

This is one that is existing, that I haven't taken off. Yet it's exactly that's the same reveal is that Sean, yes, Sean.

B

Yes, can you hear me Sean.

A

You out there: oh, let's come nudists.

B

A

Are you there Sean? Yes, all right, sorry, I waited for you to get up before I asked that, of course, Sean. Who decides that the columns are structurally inadequate. Is that city code? Yes? Okay? So so, as you start taking this apart and looking, if it's your determination that they're not, then you gotta contact code and they'll verify as you've, probably typically done yeah it's just trying to decide how many it'll end up being replaced.

A

No I understand you.

C

A

To make it I'm waiting for you to kind of work through.

C

A

We are going to have a mixed match of columns.

D

A

Would I would not want to have a mixed match of columns um on a restoration project? I agree when you have, let's just say, two that are complete and then the other six are not, and then those are composite and the detailing of those, especially whether it's the food part of the column or the capital um there just wouldn't be a consistent, aesthetic there.

A

So, in my personal opinion, if they're not structurally sound I'd, rather have them all consistent and again, you know if you're looking at the house from say the street yeah no nobody's going to know whether you know part of the top of the capital has a certain detailing of the ionic part of it from a composite to the original wood.

A

Unless you actually had the pictures in hand- and you were doing like a side-by-side comparison, a sharp dialogue yourself would know. I mean yes, but but I, but I also would know that. There's, there's inconsistencies between you know the restoration of, say two wood column versus six composite columns and then I would also pick that up as well, yeah John so well. First, it's not an original porch porch was remanufactured eons ago over 100 years, when they wanted to grab this great Greek Revival facade from another buildings coming down.

A

The original Isaac Ferry Forge is gone. I think would be in the best interest of the building to do all synthetic Homes at this point going ahead for another 100 years. If we can, um you talked about the rule for lack of a real, appropriate term building Yankee gutters building gutter, probably drained through one or three of the posts internally for wash off.

A

It lasted well over 100 years. We're going to put a drain pipe up there, I'm going to want to see it in about 20 years, so I would strongly reinforce the remanufacturing of the root in its existing condition, with internal drainage through the new columns. um It's not hard to do right. It's a very slight angle, very wide wide rep for the the drainage tube and a large PVC pipe running down to running off to the French drain.

A

um That would get me on board real, quick and easy, with also the original artifacts being donated the preservation, Association Broome County Historical, something to acknowledge them in the city and uh or make them available to somebody with a similar building that could remanufacture them into another porch. If, if we find that when we do take them down that their original wood and not in Bosley, which The Toppers may very well be, except the one that obviously you can probably wouldn't split, uh may be composite, but uh I'm on board. With that.

A

Just to kind of reiterate, John point the Yankee gutters: it's really. It's really comes out on the flashing right, so you know as long as is it an EPDM roof, because it's a low sloping room. It.

D

uh When I was there.

A

It was uh gravel like a real roof.

C

A

Gravel and parts are you going to go backwards over the original, probably metal, probably done copper, yeah, I.

B

A

Not like to go back with that material, no, um whatever would I mean. Are you going to go back with like an EPDM I? Would I would like to I mean I, think that would last longer because then you can, you can take the EPDM or wrap it into the internal Gutter and then flash it into your downspouts to ship. There that'd be the easiest. Zone I think.

D

uh You've got a video.

A

Depth there to create your own crop for that, for the runoff it's really easy, yeah I would I would prefer composite columns as well. Okay, would you like to make a motion? Sir? Do I would I like to make? Would you like it? Are we Shawna? Do you think that we're all set with this application, or does it need to be more information.

B

uh um At this point between the two between the two staff reports, um no I think this is. This would be a complete application. At this point, one.

A

One question before we uh make a final decision if I did find four columns and Toppers that are original and in good shape and I could put them all on the front of the house.

A

um So it would have the original yield for the city and have the floor facing the driveway different I. Don't know if anybody's eyes would pick up that difference and it would Preserve what what was left with the support.

C

A

Opinion is that the uh different would have to be presented to this board for approval to see that it's not too different right, which is in the pictures of I, mean that I have submitted I think we could frame a motion for either or in this case, depending on condition of the pre-existing materials when removed for determination of structural integrity.

A

Let me issue that I do have another question so, like the the trim work, that's above, the capital is below the roof, like the dental molding. So is that all going to be uh material as well? At this point, um I would say foreign that would probably um need the best solution, as I know that it's manufactured um and it's going to last forever. So I know that I can get this in composite. I could probably rebuild this exactly the way it was.

A

um It would look pretty sharp and it would last forever so your composite dental molding is going to have to uh conform very close in size, yeah, pre-existing yeah and if some large dentals going on yeah I have pictures I uh when Sean uh stopped me from the build. I immediately took pictures with my tape measure in Hand of all the molding um measuring everything took pictures, so we could uh try to rebuild it.

A

In that picture, with the uh with everything so I have all the measurements as far as the depth of all the molding I have some examples that weren't rotted out too badly, still in storage, um I think the other thing we have to go through before I forget is the Android. uh It is totally rotted. Also I, don't know if I can find the anything close to that. I will look, but uh what would uh please the board on handrail?

A

So are you so before we get to the handrail? I? Have another question? Yes: Sean: can you just stay with that picture right there? Please?

A

So you see the columns that are beyond the face of the front of the porch yeah, the ones that are kind of in the entrance. Still there yep right. So those aren't you're not looking to replace those columns. Those internal columns with the chords right you're only looking to replace the external columns along in the perimeter correct.

A

As far as the railing.

A

I mean, obviously we have to try to replicate that as close as possible, um where the balustrates uh you know the top rail. That kind of curved back down. Is that something that you look like a bandsaw? It's all the bandsaw.

D

A

Okay, um no no problem for the uh height um you'd, rather have it uh preserve the manner that it was as far as.

A

You know, as far as that or or code being applied, and um so in a project like this frequently. What happens you have the architectural Integrity of the building, which precedes code sure does it exists today, yeah so oftentimes they're going to require a restoration of the pre-existing handrails in composite form, Lumber right and then they'd oftentimes put a a metal railing going across. Maybe a one inch pipe reinforced to the handrail to provide for the safety of the the tenants, uh but without detracting from the Aesthetics of the building problem.

A

Since these are um in such bad tape, if I could find something that was similar in shape, um but it's taller, so it would maybe conform to both.

A

So is the railing gone or is the balustrator gone or both both there's bits and pieces? Then you don't have access to a lathe uh I mean I'm, not that proficient and or Shop with a lady right. So I asked somebody about those specifically to make them. uh I do believe. I have a quote and uh when he told me how much to replace all of them, I would uh first kennel cost you more than the second 20..

A

Yes, yeah, so I was uh astonished on how much he wanted to replicate those I'm again I'm going to look I mean composite material nowadays, they they've literally their sites online. That are, you know specifically dedicated to uh this kind of work. That I might be able to find something exactly like these or very similar.

A

um So I'll definitely look. Are you also questioning like current codes with handrails having to be a certain distance off the uh the plane of the floor? Are you looking to to no.

C

I mean those in.

A

In the current code criteria, because this is a restoration sure- and it's not necessarily you bringing this porch up the code right, it's.

C

A

In for what it wants to do, yeah the grandfather means it has to look the same as it is just be structurally sound right. So from pictures we will, uh you know we'll just the handrail uh to where it was um that's not in it here. I just had. The question is, if you wanted me to bring it up to both, but you answered that by saying it's grandfather, name as part of the preservation. You know. That's that's fine.

A

A

So all the railings have to be replaced, there's I have distant pieces left, I would probably be able to from the original material I I. My my belief is that from the original material that I have that I saved and preserved, I could put the front of this porch back together in its original state with the original material.

A

That was my objective. That's what I wanted to do anything past that, but again the hand drills are huge, because if I can't find something uh that closely matches it, uh we don't want offsetting handrails that are going to look completely different from the front to the back noise accounts.

A

In order right, my idea was that the columns are going to be so close and again I think you pointed out that the the eye from the street isn't going to be able to pick up the difference. If all the front were the same, and the four on the side were just slightly different, that the the eye would not be able to pick up those differences but I'm All Aboard. If you want me to use all uh the same synthetic material, so it looks the same I'm fine with that.

A

uh Just point me in the right direction: I mean and I'm having a conversation here with John. My my suggestion would be to use all composite. You.

B

A

I have no problem with that, because it'll be consistent, consistent and you can actually use some of these as a form to manufacture on composite materials. That's that's not unheard of it's pretty common right now, the handrails! It's easy! Okay, um if you've got somebody that can do that right.

A

I used to do that! Yes, I! Don't do that anymore, I'm, tired and retired right, but.

C

A

Know how dude right I I I, which.

C

Is why to me it's a.

A

C

A

It a lot of people like Matt that was easy to you. I'm like well, I've done it. You know five thousand times so to me. It only took me two minutes to do it. It's very easy for me when they've been struggling for hours like.

C

A

Turning spindles I would love to turn a spindle that big compared to the teeny little ones they're, just not frazzled I said straight. You.

C

A

I I bought a lathe uh for this project. Oh they're, fun, yeah, oh so I'll, I'm, gonna, teach myself.

A

You want to frame it or oh.

C

A

So it's also the porch right. The re-construction.

A

As much as possible with regard to what's presented before us right, I, don't think we can act on what isn't before us in the paper. So are. We are we just talking specifically about the columns his application? You have to follow. The application was for columns and and the capitals so.

C

Columns and the.

A

Capitals but the rest of it, you can give him guidance on what we want to see for the rest of it. Sean can then determine if he wants him to submit any additional information, as he progresses with the job you're going to be addressing the breeze down below the latticework yeah. That's terrible um I mean obviously, if I were to go in there and redo that I wouldn't leave that um the baseboards are probably uh rotted at this point. I take that lattice off I'd go underneath I'd.

A

Make sure that any structural uh beams which I crawled onto there it looks great so um I was I, was amazed on on how they built that accurate, um probably on three by sixes.

D

A

It's uh and the peers that they're all breaking or it's great nothing's crumbling.

A

um So with that being said, uh yes, I would address up the uh I, take the lattice off and you know refill that also to make it work because the right side, it's kind of a big system, sure with a little bit of help in the left side. Yes, to go away, yep to a pill somewhere, yes agreed I'm, just a pink who's, gonna who's, gonna framework.

D

A

Could try to frame it stick with the application, did whatever guidance else and if there's any change in the uh features that want to be replaced, we've got to submit what he wants to replace it in and John will determine whether that's a board issue review and I'm going to throw in two cents. Real, quick, Nick I'd like to give him the option and the motion to use synthetic columns and capitals, if proven necessary. So he doesn't have to come back for reapproval where original ones aren't people being reused.

A

I thought that's I thought that's the motion that we're gonna yeah. That's pretty much go.

C

Ahead: Nick yeah, okay,.

A

So so I make a motion to approve the project at 55, Main Street, with the following conditions.

A

One that the eight columns with bases and capitals will be replaced with composite cats pound chats as presented in the application, so that the Aesthetics, the appearance of these ionic columns will be consistent across the front base of the porch.

A

So that's the first motion and that's what he's asking for correct yep. Exactly yes, exactly! Second by John, all in favor all.

C

A

Okay, so now so.

D

Now we're a couple other stipulations.

A

Guidance that you want to prevent so I make a motion to provide some guidance uh from this uh board about the railings and that if you can't replace or restore the railings in time that you try to replace them with either a composite material or the same type of material in the same type of profile, that's existing to the porch today.

A

So we give you the option of whether going with a composite or actually going back to a wood and like John had mentioned, with the further suggestion of salvage parts going to preservation, Association Broome County is some appropriate local sure, a second all in favor. Well, that's a motion. It was no I mean if it's not an application before well, I, guess it's the.

C

A

With the suggestion, okay, all in favor hi, so then let's talk about there's a couple other items, so the trim molding the dental molding at the top um freeze board up there and also the trim, which would be a freeze board down low too by the lattice. That would also be replaced in kind and you would have the option of using a composite material for that as well.

A

If you couldn't replicate it with the with the species and materials that were uh that, that was originally constructed with conforming to the pre-existing dimensions, conforming to pre-existing dimensions.

A

Exactly second, by John all in favor aye, we want to talk about the Yankee gutters, so.

A

It was discussed that the um the Yankee, so the gutter system be maintained, which I guess from a terminology standpoint is considered an empty gutter system. An EPDM roof would be utilized wrapped around the internal gutter system and then downspouts would would come down the fluted columns and then daylight it to a French drain, which would divert water away from the house. But it is our our strong suggestion that those internal gutters be reconstructed as they were back when the porch was originally built.

A

You understand the the downspouts are internal to the second, all in favor all.

B

A

And then reconstruction of the porch floor and porch group uh I think cover the roof yep and the structure there and so we'll turn hand drawings, facade freezes. You talk you sorry. You touched briefly on the floor, but I don't think the floor was in front of us. Yeah.

A

um In the tongue in tongue and groove ceiling too tongue ceiling, I believe I can save the majority of it and uh and replace it with light material. You know easily enough to shape the uh groove on the floor rotted in most places and needs to be that materials available right away.

A

Do we make motion breath I think we should so so I make a motion to replace.

A

To repair and replace the tongue, room flooring and also the beadboard ceiling, telling the root bead board ceiling um in kind with like material as the applicant had stated that it's readily available um to to replace. uh Second, all in favor, hi, hi, handrails and and freeze yeah. We talked about that yeah I miss, so you you gave me a second okay, good I gotta pay attention. Sean. Do you think that that covers everything? Or are we missing something.

B

Did you include the skirting.

A

A

So yeah so I make a motion to replace the skirting in kind um as it was presented in the uh the application. So that would be the Northwest.

A

um Freeze being the original and the Southeast three, it's the north side of the building South north, that one's going to go some dull you're going to remanufacture something you look like the right hand: side, yeah, okay, vertical Square, yeah, more squared. Yet in that diagonal yeah, that's.

D

A

The lowest version of uh I'm.

C

A

Work, yes, the traditional.

C

The traditionalized.

A

So Nick made the most I will, second, all in favor all right. All right, I think that completes it. Okay, except go select, hidden email to pay for this.

C

It's all somebody.

A

Else's all right, all.

C

Right, thank you. I'll.

A

Have notice from John, yes, Sean, yeah, okay, very good! Thank you in the week. Thank you. Thank you, proud man, but it's fine up here. So everybody wanted every company 89 Walnut.

B

Okay, moving on to 89 Walnut Street, this is a application for a certificate of appropriateness for the installation of new signage. The applicant is 3i, graphics and signs, and their um proposing two new signs on the property. One is uh an 18 inch by 18 inch, directional sign that is mounted to the fencing along the iron fence along the property.

B

The actual mount for the sign and I'll show you an image in a moment is um is pre-existing. The second sign is um a program signage that will be mounted to the facade of the building immediately um to the left of the primary entrance, and it includes the names of the entities that currently utilize the building and, again that's a 12 by 18 inch sign. That's going that sign will be anchored into the building through the mortar joints in the masonry.

B

I worked with the applicant to sort of um develop more sympathetic, signage for the building um and was, and the applicant complied with. With my recommendations, um the only other recommendation I I would give the applicant with that signage is I'd, actually recommend that they change the order of the of the programming.

B

um It's uh I think a Hemingway House would um look and appear um and sort of Orient visitors to the building um more clearly if it was placed on on top of the Noma and Lords signage. So it's probably the order of that sign should be rearranged, but that's just a staff recommendation and then, as you can see, on the left in the rendering is the directional signage, which is for parking and, um like I, said this.

B

This portion of of the sign actually is pre-existing, so the only portion that's new is, is the sign face. That's going to be installed on it. The um broad iron fence obviously is pre-existing.

A

Okay, thanks Sean um anything to add applicant okay. Thank you comments.

C

A

Think the surveys are appropriate. Yeah I agree with Sean just reordering, maybe that's Hemingway House up top. What's that present a problem at all, sir.

C

B

A

Right so uh motion to approve um the application at 89, Wall, Street or Walnut Street um for signage, with the um caveat that the Hemingway House uh be placed up at the top of the doorway entrance and an approval of existing design, which is a replacement kind for the directional uh signage as well.

A

Second, all in favor aye, aye aye. Thank you. Thank you for your patience.

A

Okay, uh yes, I know, there's been a couple of uh you know: press passing about science have appeared just recently, I've been having trouble in the neighborhood or yeah I had a few blocks away and the signs of just just appeared they're just curious you're doing a nice job, nice property all right for uh for the record, um 229 State Street uh was withdrawn and uh 45 Lewis Street. We have a recusal and therefore do not have a quorum. So that was also uh table at the next meeting.

A

So we're now on 128 Prospect Avenue.

C

B

A

B

Like to present yeah Mark technically.

A

D

Yeah, if you don't mind, if we could present I, think that's better Department.

A

Oh, my God, okay, so Sean do you want to start out or uh just have Mark present what he uh is interested in doing I'll.

B

I can I can start out and it should be treated exactly like you know any other application um ex. With the exception of that, the commission cannot take action on it today and um Mick uh is recusing himself uh from this application due to conflict.

A

Okay, thank you. Okay,.

B

A

B

The applicant in uh for this case and for property address Station Square 45 Lewis Street is station 45 Mark yennady. um This is an application for a certificate of appropriateness for signage um and going through it. So the the applic applicant in this case has proposed the installation of new internally illuminated mounted sign that will be mounted to the southwest corner of the building's Tower right um just to go through. This was the rendering that was originally presented.

B

I spoke with Mark a few weeks ago about um sort of how this had been refined and he provided me with a little bit more information at that time.

B

um So you can see right that, it's not you, know, uh sort of a see-through mounted sign. um There is sort of an acrylic and that's where the the light shines.

C

B

It is a large sign. That's going to be mounted like I said to the existing Tower. This was before the acrylic was applied. There is a mounting mechanism that has already been installed. You can see it here, I included existing photos and going through it with consistency with the guidelines.

B

Overall, it's it's inconsistent with the guidelines um and I I can sort of walk through the reasoning as to why I- and this is not a critique of of the design of the sign I just want to make that clear. The the placement of the sign is is the the overall inconsistency with with the guidelines and that it's this isn't traditionally, where signage was located on the building.

B

It's it's being installed over the coins of the Tower, so it'll hide the hide the coins behind in the masonry behind I mean it will be very visible right because it's it's being installed on the tower, but it's really just the location. It's an internally illuminated um which the commission has generally pushed away from and uh and it's just not not within the scale of of of signage, for for the building as well, and so that's something I wanted the the commission to take a closer look at.

A

Okay, thanks Sean uh mark. Would you like to add.

D

No, that's! Okay. Whatever you guys decide, you decide.

A

A

Do we do you want to anybody want to discuss any piece of this I mean we can't act on it, but uh or anything anybody wants to add.

A

Is there any way to use? The sign, um looks like it's manufactured at this point, but minus the internal illumination I know that's going to probably be a concern just because in the past we've not allowed that and sets a precedent.

D

So if I'm correct, there's a sign downtown across street from uh CEFCU called beer Brothers, what kind of Illumination is that.

B

That building Mark is not in the Court Street historic district and is not subject to Cloud review. It's on Court Street, though, isn't it. It is. It's not part of the historic district.

D

B

Just as the bank prior was not subject to God, neither is that property is not subject to God foreign.

A

I kind of like the sign itself, not so keen on the location, but uh like we can't vote on it, we need a working Forum to be able to go forward at this point, we're just at the table it.

A

Okay! um Yes, yes moving forward, so the conflicts that we have if we follow the guidelines are the location of where it's on the building and what it hides, the massing of it and the internal illumination.

A

So as we think about this before it comes to the board. Next, those are the things that what makes this one different from the others. How can we get to a point where um this is uh justify without this then said, setting a precedent for other people who want eternally lit signage in the historic district that we've routinely not allowed to have happen, so those are the things that we have to think about for the next meeting.

A

What makes this location uh unique, I, guess and that's how we've handled some of these before, because it is a good looking sign, it's just uh it's going in the face of the guidelines in a couple locations.

A

That's wrong! All right! Thank you.

A

B

Okay, um moving on to the determinations of historical significance uh portion of the agenda, um the first application is for an app a determination of historical significance for demolition. It's the property located at 128, Prospect, Avenue and the applicant is uh Robert J pornback um the applicant um has proposed essentially owns the this property and the adjacent property next door.

B

um They spoke, and you can see it in the staff report about how this property has sort of evolved into, what's perceived as a nuisance um to the neighborhood um and so they're, basically looking to just remove it. Maintain Green Space in association with the adjacent property um they've recently acquired it from a previous owner, and so they this isn't an instance where we have um demolition by neglect. This was not caused by the by the applicant um in going through the this.

B

Basically, the statement of significance and description and any criteria that the property may have met with regard to Historic significance um from a staff perspective. I'll I'll, keep this brief, but I didn't find any.

B

um The property may have well at one point, um had um sort of an architectural significance, but because of the overall lack of Integrity with regard to replacement materials and deterioration and removal of architectural elements of this property. I don't find that it possesses architectural Integrity anymore.

B

At this point, um and so it it it's, it lacks that um the most significant occupant of the house appears to have been an individual named Junius Collins, who you probably saw on the staff report, had a lovely large obituary in the the Binghamton press, but in going through his significance, I couldn't find why he was well known in the community I. The obituary actually just mentions that he was a very well-read man and so beyond that and Beyond how well-read he was I'm, not quite sure why he was particularly significant in the community.

A

Okay, thank you um anything. You want to add applicant okay, perfect foreign.

B

Speaking, uh the microphone is off.

A

um The button on the mic- sorry I'm sure I, told you this- would really um complement my property and also the whole area over there. It's a it's. A eyesore there's been five owners in the last eight years that I've lived there and not a single owner has done anything. The building now is gutted.

A

They did it during covet. It was condemned back in 2018 and uh which sat there ever since during covet the owner of the building under the radar brought in a demolition crew and took out about 15 dumpsters of the interior of the building. So there's really nothing left in the inside. It's been leaking the roof for three years now and the the structure is compromised.

A

The foundation's, not in good shape, there's mold, like I, wasn't even go in the basement to take pictures. That's that bad one of the plans for just going to make it grounds to attach to your home I'm. Sorry, the plans after it's knocked down to make grounds to join the home. Yes, Green Space.

A

Thank you any other comments from the board.

A

Okay, all right! So, as you guys know, uh we have to go through the secret proceeding and I'm missing Mary Ellen who likes to read this I know right. Would you like this.

C

Volunteer I.

A

Heard about so um I got a uh make a motion to declare this as a uh as caught as lead agency. Second, all in favor aye aye uh motion to clear this action is unlisted. Second, all in favor aye, aye Dan. Thank you.

A

Yeah right here.

A

The proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations no well. The proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of land use. No, the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community. No well. The proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that cause the establishment of a critical environmental area. No, the proposed action result in adverse change in existing level of traffic or affect existing infrastructure for mass transit biking or walkway.

A

Now will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities nope?

A

Well, the proposed Action Impact existing public private water supply or public private wastewater treatment, utilities nope for the proposed action, impair the character or quality of important historical, uh archaeological, architectural or aesthetic resources. No, the proposed action result an adverse change to Natural Resources Wetlands water bodies, groundwater air quality, Flora arpana. No, the proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding or drainage problems. No will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health. You know: okay, um make a motion to clear this as a negative declaration.

A

Second, all in favor, oh I'm, sorry, Jan, you're, right I need a roll call Nick in favor of the negative declaration. John bye.

C

A

C

A

Let me tell you no not yet.

C

One more thing: I've.

A

Got to hear my two cents here: there's a procedure involved.

A

Okay, so this is the you think. I'd have a science by now on the secretary of the Interiors guidelines from historic preservation.

A

The building possesses Integrity of location setting one. If the structure is an outstanding example of a structure, a memorial representative, it's Error either past or present, or the structure does not appear to be an outstanding example of a structure. Excuse me if the structure is one of the few remaining examples of a past architectural style or a combination of styles, or if the structure is associated with a historical person or event of significance of the city region, state or Nation I'm. Finding none and I would make a negative declaration at this time.

A

Tear it down a second seconded by Mick all in favor aye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you always play again.

A

All right, 28, Clark Street. Thank you.

B

Okay again, this is an application for a determination of historical significance for demolition for the building located at 28 Clark Street. um The applicant in this case is uh Robert Smith.

B

um The applicant has proposed the demolition of the Residential Building located at 28 Clark Street. Additionally, there is a garage located to the rear of the structure. The vacant property officer determined that the roof, and particularly the southern portion of the roof, had been compromised again. I'll keep this uh brief, but the building did not appear to meet any of the criteria um for a determination of positive historical significance.

B

um The most significant owner of the house, when I um dug through the historical record, appeared to have been a DeWitt Crandall, who was a World, War, One veteran um and going through again I. The the building here possessed Integrity of location and setting, but the other aspects of Integrity it appeared to be lacking and and so um that there doesn't appear to be historic significance to this property.

A

Apple can't like that anything pardon. Would you like to add anything to that description? I, don't understand! Well, oh, okay, all right anything! You want to say at this time, sir, anything you want to say at this time. Okay, like comments from the board I've driven by it I, don't see anything.

C

I, don't have any comments.

A

Okay uh make a motion to clear cod as lead agency under Seeker. Second, all in favor all.

C

A

Make a motion to clear the action is unlisted, second, all in favor aye and the Roll Call. At the end, oh okay,.

A

Will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations? You know, will the proposed action result and a change in the use or intensity of use of land? No? Well, the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community. No. Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that cause the establishment of a critical environmental area? No well. The proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing infrastructure or mass transit biking or walkway no well.

A

The proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities. No will the proposed Action Impact existing public-private, Water, Supplies or public private wastewater treatment utilities? No, the proposed action impair the character or quality of the important or of important historical, archaeological, architectural or aesthetic resources. No, will the proposed action result in an adverse change to Natural Resources Wetlands water bodies, groundwater, air quality, flora and fauna? No well.

A

The proposed action result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding or drainage problems. No, will the proposed action create Hazard to environmental resources or human health? No foreign.

A

Negative declaration and I'll need a roll call or I need a second okay, Nick hi John, hi, Dan, hi and all in favor. Thank you.

A

Yes, sir, can't wait I'll geared up and ready to go. They've changed the format.

A

Hello old friend criteria for determination of historical significance for demolition. The commission's determination of historic significance shall be based on the following considerations, which are based on the United States Secretary of the Interior standards for historic preservation, important statement.

A

If the structure is an outstanding example of a structural Memorial representative of its error, either past or present, or if the structure is one of the few remaining examples of a past architectural style or combinations of styles, or if the structure is associated with a historical person or event of significance to the city region, State and Nation, having found on I, make a negative determination of his historical significance make a motion to tear it out a second second by Mick all in favor aye.

A

Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thanks for your patience today,.

A

Sean, do we have any other business.

B

uh No, there is no other um formal business on the agenda. Two things: the both uh properties that the commission reviewed uh for National register listing were approved by the state review board, um and so those are being forwarded onto the National Park, Service and I'll follow up with updates when I have those and um one other piece of good news is um that there may be a raise coming for the stipends for Commissioners um Juliette can provide a little bit more information on that as well enough.

A

To buy new shoes, okay,.

A

Hey Sean I had a quick question for you. Yes,.

B

Mick Johnny there.

A

Yes, so next Tuesday.

A

Are we still reviewing Mark's uh application.

B

uh The intent would be yes, I will pull the commission if they're able to attend next Tuesday a special meeting next Tuesday you.

A

Will again be remembered, excuse myself would I need to be there. No.

A

Unrelated but similar topic, October 28th is the preservation. Association Spirits tour of binghamton's past starts at uh 6 30 at the Carnegie Library, currently known as The Culinary Institute of SUNY Broome, be there be square guys. It's fun: okay, um Juliet thanks for your huge effort at the beginning, but it was an interesting time. Sean.

B

A

Made it through yeah, we did and I'm actually really happy that we got through a good uh good part of the agenda. All right motion to adjourn. Second, all in favor all.

B

A