►
Description
May 15, 2017 - Committee of the Whole City Council Meeting
http://www.cityblm.org
View meeting documentation:
http://www.cityblm.org/Home/Components/Calendar/Event/5731/17
Music by www.RoyaltyFreeKings.com
A
A
B
A
Here,
thank
you
very
much.
We
have
a
quorum
and
we're
going
to
move
on
to
public
comment
and
just
to
clarify
in
in
public
comment.
People
have
up
to
three
minutes
apiece.
The
total
time
allocated
is
30.
Minutes
looks
like
we
have
nine,
so
everybody
we're
not
gonna
have
to
worry
about
somebody.
Maybe
getting
caught
up
or
you
know,
blocked
out
at
the
very
end.
We
do
not
have
let
the
record
show
all
the
minutes.
Ages
joined
us.
We
don't
have
a
typical
protocol
where
we
answer
or
respond.
A
It's
a
little
more
like
open
mic
to
give
us
information.
If
you
do
want
to
sit
down
and
chat,
we
need
answers.
You
can
always
come
to
the
mayor's
open
house.
We'll
have
another
one,
this
Friday
from
4:30
to
5:30.
You
can
sit
right
over
there
by
the
fishbowl.
We
talk
about
anything.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
on
the
agenda.
Okay.
So
at
this
point,
I'm
going
to
read
these
in
groups
of
three
because
we
do
have
nine
people
handle
this
as
expeditiously
as
possible
and
if
you
would
be
prepared
to
come
forward
someone
who's.
A
D
I've
never
done
this
before,
but
I
told
you
and
Karen
before
the
meeting
I'm
still
in
therapy,
so
I
did
I
did
I
did
not
attend
the
meeting
week
ago.
Was
it
that's
true?
It's
pretty
hard,
and
some
of
you
might
have
the
same
thing
to
deal
with.
Oh
I'm,
on
the
clock.
Wow
all
right
good
afternoon
with
respect
to
agenda
item
six
and
the
identification
of
a
single
line
item
in
fiscal
year.
18
budget
I
would
encourage
you
to
look
at
the
broader
issue
of
territorial
decision
making.
D
Our
one
community
has
had
a
successful
history
of
supporting
new
residential
growth,
as
well
as
rehabilitating
our
older
neighborhoods.
The
Grove
neighborhood
is
our
fastest-growing
Bloomington
development
and
reflection
of
the
housing
interest
and
desires
of
our
residents.
We
all
know
that
staff
reports
can
include
or
not
include
many
associated
issues
and,
of
course,
as
individuals
we
can
interpret
to
our
own
experience
and
desires.
As
a
single
example
note,
the
paragraph
that
references,
a
recent
regional
housing
study
that
concludes
in
a
quote.
D
Changing
demographics
and
preferences
will
likely
draw
people
towards
more
urbanized
neighborhoods
and
the
city's
core
less
demand
is
anticipated
for
traditional
single-family
homes
in
greenfield
development.
End
of
quote,
we
all
know
this
is
not
happening
in
Bloomington.
Single-Family
housing
is
simply
more
accessible
in
newer
developments.
The
core
of
our
city
simply
does
not
provide
the
land
for
new
housing
developments.
The
clear
reality
is
that
a
very
small
percentage
of
families
are
choosing
our
older
neighborhoods.
D
While
this
agenda
item
has
been
requested
by
alderman,
Black,
Schmidt,
painter
and
Burgas
I
understand,
it
has
been
the
subject
of
some
internal
lobbying
within
the
council
and
has
been
fast-tracked
through
the
staff
who
has
prepared
a
35-page
presentation
for
this
one
single
line
item
out
of
a
two
hundred
plus
million
dollar
budget.
When
briefly
discussed
a
month
ago
on
a
city
council
meeting,
there
was
expressed
interest
to
engage
other
impacted
parties.
This
could
include
the
Grove
Neighborhood
Association,
the
Bloomington
Normal
Home
Builders
Association,
the
Bloomington
Normal
Association
of
Realtors
unit,
five
schools
and
others.
D
I
will
look
forward
to
the
council's
discussion
of
whether
you
will
be
inviting
have
a
more
intentional
public
discussion.
Police.
Correct
me
if
I've
missed
it,
but
I
did
not
see
any
communication
to
the
public
that
this
would
be
discussed
tonight.
Our
community
needs
both
new
growth
and
redevelopment
of
our
older
neighborhoods
and
I
would
encourage
you
to
move
away
from
the
territorial
thinking,
actions
and
decisions
that
have
evolved
within
the
council
in
recent
years.
D
As
one
quick
example
consider
the
fact
that
those
representing
wards
one
two,
four
and
seven
vote
against
new
neighborhood
parks
at
Gaelic
and
Eagle
view
and
I'd
be
more
than
happy
to
come
back
to
give
you
other
examples
on
future
monies.
If
you'd
like
it
gives
us
pause
to
ask
how
the
voting
will
unfold
when
the
redevelopment
of
O'neil
Park
comes
forward
for
a
council
vote,
you
know
me
well
enough
that
I
would
be
the
first
in
line
to
support
it.
D
In
my
24
years
in
this
chamber,
I,
don't
recall
a
single
vote
where
I
opposed
any
planned
expenditure
in
our
downtown
or
Westside
initiatives.
I'm
wrapping
it
up
please,
this
Jenna
I
am
is
more
than
a
single
line
item
in
fiscal
fiscal
year:
18
it's
about
growing
and
rehabilitating
a
balanced
community
and
the
avoidance
of
a
decision-making
based
on
individual
award
interest.
It's
about
being
inclusive
to
the
larger
community.
Successes
in
our
community
come
through
collaborative
working
relationships
and
not
territorial
decision-making.
We
all
need
impacted
groups
supporting
one
another
for
future
generations.
Thank
You
sergeant.
E
Mayor
council
members,
my
name
is
Michael
Herzog
and
I'm
speaking
on
behalf
of
an
alliance
of
multiple
organizations
here
in
town,
including
the
local
chapters
of
the
ACLU
black
lives
matter
and
double-a-c-p,
not
in
our
town
and
YWCA,
and
hopefully
more
organizations
to
come.
We
are
here
today
because
we
don't
want
to
be
like
many
other
cities
and
wait
for
a
tragedy
to
strike
in
order
for
us
to
start
rethinking
how
police
and
community
specifically
the
communities
of
color,
interact.
E
Many
signals
point
to
lack
of
trust
between
local
police
and
minority
communities,
data
regarding
disproportional
outcomes
in
policing.
Testimony
from
current
community
members
unwillingness
on
the
part
of
victims
to
cooperate
with
investigations.
We
can
debate
all
day
about
whether
this
is
the
result
of
a
public
not
being
educated
on
police
protocol
or
a
problem
of
crime
or
a
problem
of
racism
etc.
Well,
regardless
of
where
you
think
the
problem
lies,
the
truth
is
when
communities
and
people
Gribbs,
don't
trust
the
police
enough
to
call
them
for
help
or
to
appropriately
resolve
complaints.
E
It
creates
the
public
safety
crisis
for
all
of
us.
We
believe
that
we
need
police
and
community
working
together
to
keep
our
city
safe
community
cannot
do
it
alone,
police
cannot
do
it
alone.
It
takes
all
of
us.
We
are
here,
in
the
spirit
of
collaboration,
to
formally
recommend
the
first
step
towards
rebuilding
that
trust
and
that's
the
establishment
of
a
civilian
review
board.
E
Currently,
very
few
complaints
are
formally
submitted
to
the
Bloomington
Police
Department
BPD
routinely
participates
in
well
over
10,000
traffic
and
pedestrian
stops
over
the
course
of
the
year.
The
last
year
in
particular,
they
were
less
than
twenty
formal
complaints
filed.
At
the
same
time,
we
hear
many
people
in
the
community,
especially
people
of
color,
express
dissatisfaction
with
the
current
procedure
for
obtaining
a
response
to
citizen
complaints.
E
It's
from
this
advantage
that
the
community
can
contribute
to
better
policing
by
means
of
a
civilian
review
board
the
recommendations
that
we've
provided
our
guiding
principles
to
ensure
that
whatever
takes
shape
is
not
a
step
back
or
a
sidestep,
but
rather
a
step
forward
towards
meaningful
and
effective
community
policing.
With
the
data
that's
out
there
and
with
all
that
we
know,
should
we
fail
to
meet
this
moment,
we're
asking
for
trouble
in
the
future.
E
A
F
G
Thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
take
a
few
moments
to
speak
to
the
item.
Number
six
on
the
agenda.
Late
related
to
the
Grove
subdivision,
I
represent
the
developers
of
the
Grove
subdivision,
which
actually
agree
with
many
of
the
points
raised
by
mr.
Froman
and
really
have
some
questions
for
the
City
Council
part
of
which
is.
Is
that
the
gross
subdivision?
G
What
is
being
thought
as
an
investment
in
the
Grove
subdivision,
because
we
feel
like
that,
the
the
city
of
Bloomington
and
the
community
at
large
benefits
from
this
development,
which
continues
to
sell
homes
it's
not
as
if
homes
continue
to
sit
on
the
market.
This
is
an
active
subdivision
that
continues
to
have
significant
growth,
but
what
we
aren't
seeing
is
we
know,
there's
investment
in
other
areas,
an
idea
to
invest
in
downtown
growth
and
we're
looking
at.
G
Additionally,
we
would
ask
that
that
an
evaluation
be
given
to
the
impact
on
building
permits
in
the
event
that
future
efforts
by
the
City
Council
are
to
to
make
the
grow
subdivision
kind
of
a
whipping
child
of
sorts
where,
where
the
city
is
no
longer
interested
in
future
development.
In
that
area,
though
not
specifically
prohibiting
it,
we
would
ask
that
we
postpone
a
final
decision
on
this
particular
line
item,
because
we
feel,
like
mr.
firoan
indicated,
that
there
are
a
number
of
parties
that
should
be
part
of
this
discussion.
G
As
this
council
may
be
aware,
a
memorandum
of
agreement
was
entered
into
a
number
of
years
ago
between
my
client
and
the
city
with
respect
to
certain
cost-sharing
items
which
would
include
the
line
item
at
question
here.
With
respect
to
that,
we
had
an
obligation
to
give
notice
to
the
city,
and
that
made
sense,
because
the
idea
at
that
point
was
there
was
going
to
be
an
additional
investment
that
was
going
to
be
over
sizing
of
certain
utilities.
G
We
would
suggest
that
not
only
should
the
developer
be
a
part
of
those
discussions
again,
the
real
estate
community
should
be
part
of
those
discussions
as
well
as
unit
5.
We
also
questioned
whether
the
addition
of
what
we
understand
to
be
new
workforce
coming
in
for
State
Farm
shouldn't
be
a
consideration
when
we
determine
whether
we
want
to
increase
growth
and
have
available
new
residential
developments
for
those
individuals
when
they
come
into
the
community.
G
A
H
I
So
we're
going
to
talk
about
the
police,
and
so
we
definitely
need
a
civilian
review
board.
I
really
am
sick
of
the
police
in
this
town.
They
really
are
out
of
control,
and
really
this
statement
goes
to
all
four
police
agencies
in
McLean
County,
all
of
them
every
last.
One
of
them
need
a
camera
shoved
up
there,
but
they
are
just
horrible.
Keep
it
respectful.
A
I
I
know
it's
difficult
for
me
to
do
the
I'm
one
of
those
people
that
they
need
to
regain
the
trust
of
because
I,
despised
them
with
a
fervent
passion
and
I've
tried
to
explain
at
the
mayor's
meeting.
I
talked
to
Amelia
Burgas
and
while
I
was
telling
my
stories
and
I
was
trying
to
tell
her
this
story
about
something
that
happened
to
me
20
years
ago,
I'm
still
mad
about
it
and
the
horrible
part
about
that
is
is
that
officer
is
still
employed,
and
this
is
what
he
did.
I
I
was
playing
around
with
the
laser
pen
hanging
out
my
window,
I
lived
on
the
corner
of
Washington
and
Morris
and
I
hit
the
little
strip
on
the
the
railroad
crossing
because
it
reflects
light
and
the
laser
beam
hits
it
and
it
the
whole
thing
lights
up
and
I
thought
that
was
amazing,
so
I
just
kept
doing
it.
I
thought
I
was
cool,
so
the
next
thing
I
know
I
had
20
cops
swarm.
I
My
house,
SWAT
teams,
rifles
the
works,
machine
guns,
everything
and
then
I
go
downstairs
to
see
what
it
is,
because
they're
yelling
throw
down
your
gun
in
your
laser
sight
and
I'm
like
it
looked.
My
keys
are
on
this
thing,
and
so
this
officer
he's,
like
god,
I.
Don't
like
your
mouth
him
take
you.
So
he
jumps
on
me.
I
I
If
that
wasn't
bad
enough,
this
this
guy,
he
took
that
Club.
He
popped
me
in
my
head
told
me:
I
was
going
to
feel
that
when
I
was
thirty,
my
hip
is
hurting
like
hell,
I
watch
them
do
this
stuff
to
people
all
the
time.
I
keep
my
mouth
shut
and
one
day
they
made
me
mad,
so
mad
that
I
decided
I
was
going
to
come
up
here
and
start
talking
to
all
you
people
all
the
time.
I
have
no
respect
for
any
government
that
can't
handle
this
crazy
smirk
force
that
you
got.
A
J
Fea,
council
persons,
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
speak.
I'll
keep
it
very
short.
We've
submitted
some
documents,
we'll
an
alliance
of
community
organizations,
have
submitted
some
documents
to
you
about
a
civilian
review
board
I'm
just
here
to
say,
as
a
member
of
black
lives
matter,
that
we
fully
support
the
establishment
of
such
a
a
board
and
we're
looking
forward
to
working
with
you
all
to
make
it
a
possibility.
Thank
you.
Thank.
K
L
L
That
America
would
not
have
ever
been
thought
of
from
our
founding
fathers,
but
also
I
want
to
say
that
we
live
in
a
constitutional
republic
and
we
all
know
there's
three
co-equal
branches
of
government
got
the
legislative,
executive
and
judicial
and
the
reason
I
bring
that
up
is
because
what
about
like
a
sports
game,
let's
say
basketball
and
you
got
people
that
want
to
make
the
rules
from
the
sidelines.
If
you
want
to
change
the
rules
from
the
sideline
user,
there's
a
technical,
foul.
L
Okay.
So
here
we
have
a
review
board
that
can
have
non-binding
procedures.
I
mean
that
that
is
like
making
the
rules
along
the
way.
Although
I
want
to
say,
then
it's
also
that
how's,
this
review
board
going
to
be
made
up
or
all
the
voices
in
the
community
going
to
be
heard.
Is
everyone's
freedom
going
to
be
equal,
or
is
it
just
going
to
be
those
that
want
to
make
like
their
disenfranchised?
L
That's
where
the
judicial
branch
comes
in,
if
you
feel
like
you're
disenfranchised
act
on
that
appropriately,
that
the
laws
of
the
land
appropriate
for
you,
you
can
hire
a
lawyer,
you
get
all
kinds
of
avenues
to
make
sure
your
voice
is
heard.
I
just
want
to
say.
Let's
say
this:
review
board
is
made
up
a
sanctioned
by
the
City
Council,
and
suddenly
my
equal
voice
is
not
being
heard.
L
A
N
A
A
A
The
motion
carries
8
to
0.
There
are
no
needs
to
announce
madam
clerk,
okay
and,
as
I
had
mentioned,
we're
this
is
in
the
committee
of
the
whole,
and
we
are
this
evening
discussing
several
items
and
there
will
be
no
actual
action
tonight.
Some
of
them
are
quite
preliminary.
Some
of
them
are
a
little
more
advanced.
A
Some
will
be
for
a
sense
of
the
council
on
some
exploring
our
options
and
when
we
start
with
the
discussion
of
public
safety
in
community
relations,
that's
essentially
what
it
is,
and
certainly
many
of
the
people
in
public
comment
had
spoken
about
a
citizen's
review
board.
There
are
many
different
options.
What
what
we
are
trying
to
do
as
council
is
have
a
first
discussion
at
500
feet.
A
Okay,
what
is
the
nature
of
what
we're
dealing
with
and
certainly
want
to
prove
improve
community
relationships
and
what
are
some
of
the
options
moving
forward
when
I
go
to
the
US
Conference
of
Mayors,
which
is
usually
275
to
300
of
the
nation's
360
Metro
mayors
show
up.
There
are
always
multiple
panels
on
improving
community
relations
with
law
enforcement
officials.
There's
almost
always
a
couple
of
panels
on
body
cameras
that
we
are
moving
forward
with
here
as
well,
so
those
are
some
of
the
hot
issues,
so
it's
not
just
obviously
Bloomington.
A
This
is
a
national
concern
and
in
fact,
actually,
president
former
President
Barack
Obama
established
a
21st
century
task
force
and
the
president's
task
force
actually
included.
Shaun
Smoot,
our
very
own
Shaun
Smoot
from
Illinois,
who
is
actually
an
attorney
out
of
Springfield
and
the
president's
task
force
I'm
just
going
to
cite
a
couple
of
things
from
it,
and
one
is
the
quote
that
President
Obama
stated
he
says
when
any
part
of
the
American
family
does
not
feel
like
it's
being
treated
fairly.
A
That's
a
problem
for
all
of
us,
so
that's
essentially
were
where
we're
coming
from
some
of
the
specific
statements.
There
were
many
pillars
of
the
of
the
president's
task
force.
One
talked
about
building
trust,
building,
trust
and
nurturing
legitimacy
on
both
sides
of
the
police-citizen
divide
is
the
found
eight
founding
principle
underlying
the
nature
of
relationships
between
law
enforcement
and
the
communities
that
they
serve,
that
we
essentially
need
to
understand
that
law
enforcement
needs
to
be
a
guardian
rather
than
a
warrior,
and
to
build
that
type
of
mindset.
A
One
of
the
people
on
the
task
force,
Susan
Rohr,
said
in
2012.
We
began
asking:
why
are
we
training
police
officers
like
soldiers?
Although
police
officers
wear
uniforms
and
carry
weapons?
The
similarity
ends
there.
The
missions
and
rules
of
engagement
are
completely
different.
Soldier's
mission
is
that
of
a
warrior
or
a
conqueror.
The
rules
of
engagement
are
decided
before
the
battle.
The
police
officers
mission
is
the
Guardian
to
protect
and
the
rules
of
engagement
and
in
evolved
as
an
incident
unfold,
and
so
we
need
to
understand
those
types
of
things.
A
One
of
the
recommendations
of
the
task
force
was
to
embrace
the
culture
of
transparency.
Law
enforcement
agencies
should
make
all
department
policies
available
for
public
review
and
regularly
post
on
the
department's
website.
Information
about
stops,
summonses
arrests,
reported
crime
and
other
law
enforcement
data
aggregated
by
demographics.
They
also
suggested
that
police
and
our
police
officers
certainly
have
made
an
attempt
to
do
this.
A
Every
we
can
always
do
better
is
to
be
involved
in
the
community,
and
community
policing
is
important,
and
that
is
going
to
a
variety
of
different
types
of
events,
so
that
you
understand
the
community.
So
you
can
begin
to
understand
if
somebody
at
3:00
in
the
morning
wanders
around
a
neighborhood
because
he
has
narcolepsy
well,
then
you
know
if
the
police
know
more
about
that,
they
know
that
that's
not
a
suspicious
character
right.
So
the
more
that
there's
information
on
both
sides.
Certainly
the
better.
A
There
are
many
different
options
that
are
in
front
of
us,
but
I
thought
it
would
be
a
good
idea.
The
police
chief
is
turning
the
other
way
Brennan
if
you'd
come
forward
and
just
very
succinctly,
so
we
all
know
what
is
the
current
process,
because
chief
Heffner
did
change
this
when
he
came
in
some
made
some
changes.
What
is
the
current
process
and
what
are
the
current
options?
Just
very
briefly,
so
the
council
and
the
public
for
the
record
knows
what
our
current
process
looks
like,
and
obviously
this
is
only
one
piece.
A
O
Good
evening,
council
mayor
citizens,
our
complaint
process
as
it
is
now
is
basically
if
a
person
has
a
complaint,
they
can
come
to
the
department
to
get
a
form
and
fill
it
out
and
fill
it
out
there.
They
can
receive
assistance
there
from
the
sergeant
we've
done
that
or
a
person
can
download
it
complete
the
form
and
mail.
O
Yes,
download
it
online
and
complete
it
and
send
it
in
the
forms
must
be
completed
and
notarized.
That's
part
of
police
officers,
Bill
of
Rights
there's
nothing
that
we
made
up
it's
nationwide
now.
As
far
as
a
notary
I
know
some
have
asked
about,
you
know
problems
with
a
notary.
We
have
notaries
working
every
shift,
so
you
can
get
it
notarized,
there's
also
other
places
to
get
documents
notarized
now,
once
it
is
submitted
and
I
want
to
be
clear,
crystal
clear,
we
welcome
complaints.
O
We
welcome
complaints
because
that's
the
only
way
that
we
can
learn
about
what
we're
doing,
whether
we're
doing
what
we're
doing
is
correct
or
if
we
need
to
make
changes.
As
a
matter
of
fact,
that's
on
the
bottom
of
letters
that
people
receive
back
generally,
when
somebody
submits
a
complaint,
it's
usually
a
response
back
between
30
to
45
days,
depending
on
the
nature
of
the
complaint
and
also
depending
on
on
our
caseload
with
investigator.
O
What
we
do
that
we
investigate
it
and
we
get
back
to
people.
I
will
tell
you
that
assistant
Chief
clay,
wheeler
oversees
that
everything
comes
through
him
and
it
comes
to
me.
We
have
a
sergeant
shad
walmsley,
who
does
most
of
the
investigations
absent
something
that
occurs
on
a
shift
level
and
it
still
has
to
come
up
through
there.
Both
of
them
have
extensive
investigative
background
extensive
and
they
look
at
everything
and
then
it
comes
through
me,
and
then
we
get
back
with
people.
We
send
them
response
back
now.
O
If
a
person
is
not
satisfied
with
the
outcome,
they
can
come
in.
It
says
right
on
there.
They
can
call
and
ask
to
speak
with
assistant
chief
wheeler
and
come
in
and
have
a
meeting
with
him
to
discuss
it
and
they
can
bring
advocates
with
them
and
usually
I'm
there
and
I
will
tell
you.
Besides
the
other
ways,
I've
told
you
I
want
to
be
clear.
O
You
know
you
can
have
the
Pony
Express
bring
the
complaint
in
as
long
as
it's
completed
properly.
Anything
you
can
have
it
dropped
in
as
long
as
it's
completed
properly
we're
going
to
get
back
to
you.
We've
received
complaints
from
DLC
that
we've
had
to
go
back
and
from
the
county,
where
we
will
go
back
and
make
sure
that
it's
documented
properly,
because
we
take
that
seriously
very
seriously.
O
Like
you
said,
when
I
came
here,
we
established
Office
of
Professional
Standards,
so
citizens
would
know
that
we
take
what
we
do
very
seriously
regarding
complaints
or
anything
I.
Think
if
you
recall
a
couple
years
ago,
if
you
want
to
see
how
we
look
at
things
within
this
department,
I
can't
speak
with
all
of
them.
O
We
discovered
something
with
one
of
our
officers
a
couple
years
ago
that
we
uncovered
that
eventually
mushroom
to
the
point
where
we
terminated
that
officer.
So,
regardless
of
what
it
is,
we
will
take
the
appropriate
action
and
I'll.
Tell
you
now
I'm
willing
to
discuss
on
anyone
any
ideas
on
how
they
think
the
process
can
be
improved.
We
obviously
have
some
contractual
rights,
but
you
know
someone
doesn't
feel
comfortable,
bringing
a
complaint
in
to
us.
They
can
give
it
to
someone
else
to
bring
in
long
as
it's
completed
properly.
O
A
O
We
were
actually
looking
at
body
cameras
before
it
hit
national
we've
seen
other
agencies,
obviously
there's
a
big
cost
to
them,
and
obviously
you
have
to
do
your
research,
but
yes,
we
we
are
getting
body
cameras.
We
are
testing
some
now,
just
like
with
any
type
of
new
product
that
comes
out.
The
first
and
second
generations
are
not
always
what
they
seem
to
be.
I
talked
to
my
peers
and
they've
had
to
change.
So
we
are
proceeding
diligently,
but
we
will
have
them.
Okay,.
O
At
times,
yes,
the
law
mandates
when
a
camera
must
be
on
that's
what's
in
the
law,
I
have
no
control
of
that.
Okay
mandates.
How
much
record
time
there
is
it
mandates?
How
long
you
have
to
retain
footage.
All
of
this
is
in
the
law.
All
of
this
is
in
our
memorandum
of
understanding
right
now,
because
can't
put
a
policy
in
place
until
we
actually
purchase
a
proper
product
that
we're
going
to
use
okay.
O
Like
anything
else
or
any
other
policy
violations,
we
will
investigate
it
and
that
will
determine
what
we
do.
Obviously,
I
will
tell
you:
I
was
in
internal
investigations
with
the
State
Police
I,
think
all
of
you
all
have
some
type
of
smartphone
or
computer.
Sometimes
they
don't
work
correctly.
Sometimes
they
cut
off.
However,
if
we
have
a
person
who
is
intentionally
turning
a
camera
off
when
it
should
be
on,
we
will
deal
with
that.
We
will
do
all
things
appropriately.
O
M
O
O
What
complaints
come
to
us
up,
not
since
I've
been
here,
but
that
doesn't
preclude
anybody
from
doing
that?
I
always
tell
people
when
they
come
and
talk
to
me
and
assistant
chief
wheeler.
If
they
aren't
satisfied
their
next
step
is
mister
hale's
and
the
mayor.
People
always
have
that
and
then
they're
not
satisfied
with
them.
You
always
have
the
civil
route
that
you
can
take.
Okay,.
A
P
A
I'm
there
any
question.
Thank
you.
Actually,
that's
the
first
thing
that
I
wanted
to
find
out
was
Gabe.
If
you
could,
let
us
know
in
terms
of
our
police
union
contracts
there,
as
I
recall,
is
and
I'm
I
believe
mr.
Jergens
had
mentioned
this
to
me,
some
getting
this
secondhand.
So
if
you
could
clarify
there,
there
actually
are
some
limits
on
review
after
an
internal
investigation
has
been
conducted.
Is
that
correct
the
crime,
but
it
there
could
be
something
that
would
happen
before?
Is
that
correct,
that's
correct
as
well?
If
you
could
clarify
that.
C
Yes,
my
name
is
Gabe
near
garlic,
illegal
Department,
there's
actually
two
separate
collective
bargaining
agreements
that
we're
dealing
with
with
the
police.
One
is
for
unit
number
21,
which
is
the
patrol
officers
that
there
are
other
one
is
for
the
sergeants
and
lieutenants.
Both
of
them
are
almost
identical
in
terms
of
the
provisions
that
I'll
describe,
but
there's
two
provisions.
C
The
first
is
section
5.4
a
as
an
apple,
and
it
says
the
city
shall
not
reinvestigate
any
incident
that
was
previously
investigated
by
an
appropriate
Authority
unless
there
is
reasonable
belief,
the
new
and
that
new
information
is
available.
An
appropriate
Authority
is
defined
as
the
chief
assistant
chief
internal
affairs
officer
or
such
other
person
expressly
designated
by
the
chief
of
police
to
conduct
a
specific
investigation,
so
that
provision
would
preclude
reinvestigation
of
something
that
the
internal
affairs
department
had
already
dealt
with.
Okay,
so
that's
number
one,
the
second
one
that
just.
A
C
There's
no
there's
no
prohibition
on
the
civil
remedy
that
anyone
could
pursue
outside
of
this
disciplinary
process.
Thank
you
and
the
second
provision
that
I
wanted
to
highlight
a
section
5.8
of
that
same
collective
bargaining
agreement,
and
this
one
says
it's
titled
compulsion
of
testimony.
It
says
the
employer
shall
not
compel
a
bargaining
unit
employee
to
speak
or
testify
before
or
to
be
questioned
by
a
citizen,
review
board
or
similar
entity
relating
to
any
matter
or
issue
so
that
one's
pretty
direct
on
on
this
issue.
As
far
as
precluding
a
citizen
review
board
an.
A
Q
All
this
age
and
Mayor
I
think
you
alluded
to
this,
can
can
you
perhaps
outline
a
little
bit
kind
of
what
they
were
manger
of
this
process
looks
like
either
from
from
a
a
council
perspective
staff
perspective,
but
I'm
trying
to
understand
kind
of
what,
at
the
end,
the
in
line
of
sight
through
this
to
this
process.
What
tonight
being
maybe
the
initial
step?
Surely.
A
I
mean
at
this
point,
as
I
I
probably
should
have
been
a
little
clearer
as
that
this
is
our
first
conversation
adverse
public
conversation.
There
have
been
several
proposals
that
have
been
suggested
by
several
organizations,
and
this
is
our
first
council
conversation.
So
frankly,
it's
up
to
us
what
our
next
steps
might
be.
Are
there
some
things
that
we're
interested
in
having
staff
pursue
as
a
possible
option
moving
forward?
Would
it
be
something
that
has
to
do
with
changes
to
map
or
what?
If
we
changes
to
the
citizen
to
the
Human
Relations
Commission
is
there?
A
Is
there
any
support?
What
support
is
there
for
some
sort
of
system
review
board?
What
would
that
look
like
we've
seen
that
there
would
be
limitations,
legal
limitations
on
that
again
any
items
are
on
the
table
and
it
doesn't
even
have
to
be
that
because
I
think
this
is
pretty
broad.
I
literally
wanted
to
make
it
broad,
because
I
didn't
want
us
to
only
focus
on
one
means
to
achieve
a
broader
end,
so
certainly
more
community
policing,
other
options.
A
Other
ideas
are
there
more
things
that
we
can
put
on
line
as
this
21st
century
task
force
suggests
many
other
ways
that
you
can
change
police
officer
training,
so
you
know
I
I
didn't
want
it
to
be.
This
is
our
discussion.
Is
that
fair
to
say
mr.
Hales,
when
we
talked
about
putting
this
on,
we
we
wanted
to
keep
it
at
500
feet,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
options,
and
this
is
probably
the
beginning
of
a
very
long
conversation
and
I-
don't
mean
that
we
won't
act
on
it.
It's
just
you.
A
Q
R
R
We
received
this
proposal
from
the
several
different
groups
and
I
I.
Think
in
the
proposal
there
was
a
reference
to
to
the
fact
that
we
should
not
feel
comfortable
with
the
fact
that
there
are
a
very
low
number
of
complaints,
so
I
wanted,
for
maybe
the
chief
to
address
the
history
of
complaints.
You
know
right
now,
I
understand
we're
in
the
twenty
range
or
something
like
that.
But
what
has
it
been
in
the
past
prior
to
him?
Instituting
some
of
the
changes
he's
talked
about
I.
O
Know
last
year,
I
believe
it
was
mid.
30S
I,
don't
have
an
exact
number
and
maybe
a
little
bit
before
that
when
I
first
got
here,
they
were
actually
some
complaints
hanging
out
there
we
cleaned
all
those
up.
We
addressed
them.
Even
some
of
them
were
older
and
we
did
that.
So
they
went
down
from
mid-30s
to
17.
Now
we'll
tell
you
that
I
have
asked
some
people.
O
What
is
the
number
of
complaints?
What
what
do
you
think?
A
number
of
complaints
and
I've
asked
some
people,
because,
if
you're
trying
to
do
better
and
you're
talking
to
your
officers
about
being
more
professional
or
sin,
L
I
always
talk
about
in
community,
you
know
work
within
the
community.
I
would
think
that
would
happen
now
in
comparison.
I
will
tell
you
saying
such
Champaign
had
six
so
I,
don't
know
what
a
good
number
is,
but
one
thing
that
I
will
tell.
O
You
also
is
that
there
are
people
who
come
in
and
talk
to
me
at
least
twice
a
month,
sometimes
three
times
a
month
about
some
issue
that
they
had
had
with
the
department
or
an
officer
and
just
to
come
in
and
discuss
it
and
we
usually
discuss
it
and
working
out
and
a
lot
of
times
people
get
confused
with
what
we
do
and
the
law
we
enforce
the
law.
We
don't
make
the
law,
some
people
are
upset
about
the
law
and
how
things
should
be?
O
We
don't
we
don't
make
the
law,
we
enforce
the
law,
but
I
talk
to
people
regularly
and
sometimes
some
people
just
want
to
come
in
and
talk,
and
they
have
a
better
understanding
of
why
we
do
what
we
do
so
to
answer.
Your
question
could
have
been
40
when
I
got
here.
I
know
it
was
30
s
last
year,
but
this
year's
at
17
I,
don't
know.
If
there's
a
magic
number
of
complaints,
you're
supposed
to
have
per
calls
for
service
I
would
think
when
you're
trying
to
work
hard,
they
should
go
down.
O
M
O
Would
be
correct
and
I
will
tell
you
that
I've
also
been
approached
when
I've
been
out,
sometimes
on
my
own
personal
time,
I'm,
probably
responsible
for
three
or
four
complaints,
because
I
will
tell
people
you
need
to
file
a
complaint.
If
that's
how
you
feel,
especially
if
I
don't
have
time
to
talk
with
them,
but
yes,
people
come
in
to
try
to
figure
out
why
we
took
the
action
we
did
and
we
talked
about
it
now.
Sometimes
we
agree
to
disagree,
but
that
is
not
uncommon.
O
At
all,
they'll
talk
to
me,
they'll
talk
to
sis
and
chief
wheeler.
That's
why
sometimes,
when
we
put
training
on,
you
know,
I
invite
people
to
training,
because
it
gives
you
an
opportunity
to
learn
why
we
do
why
we
do
with
some
things,
but
I
will
tell
you
a
lot
of
times.
O
M
M
O
O
S
All
them
in
black
Thank
You,
mr.
mayor
Thank,
You,
chief
and
others
for
chatting
about
this
very
important
conversation
this
evening.
This
one
take
a
few
moments
and
just
highlight
a
couple
things
for
you
specifically
chief
right
out.
The
gate
is
that
I've
really
appreciated
over
the
years
since
you've
come
into
Bloomington
and
into
the
Chiefs
role.
What
you've
done
to
help
start
a
process,
because
to
my
knowledge,
prior
to
you
being
here,
there
was
no
process
to
file
a
formal
complaint
for
a
resident.
Is
that
correct?
It.
O
O
S
And
I
recall
a
conversation
that
you
and
I
had
had
right
out
the
gate
where
you
know
that
one
of
the
key
things
during
a
budget
meltdown
that
we
wanted
to
have
was
an
assistant
chief
that
was
in
charge
of
professional
standards,
and
that
was
one
of
the
few
positions
that
we
added
at
that
time,
because
it
was
important
to
this
council
and
important
to
you
and
I
appreciate
that
want
to
applaud
those
efforts.
I
also
want
to
note
that
you've
done
a
lot
of
work.
S
You
do
your
focus
meetings
every
other
month,
you've
been
out
in
the
in
the
west
side.
Specifically,
you
know,
I've
seen
you
out
in
public
and
people
stop
and
ask
you
questions
so
I
don't
want
those
things
to
fall
by
the
wayside.
We
have
these
types
of
conversations
and
for
your
staff
as
well
I
mean
I've,
been
to
Northwest
Neighborhood,
Association
meetings,
gap,
old
town,
neighborhood
association
meetings,
where
your
officers
come
and
have
conversations
with
the
residents,
and
these
are
things
that
I
think
are
really
important.
S
I
hope
we
don't
lose
sight
of
as
part
of
this
conversation.
To
that
end,
you
know,
I
have
talked
publicly
before
about
the
calls
that
I
get
typically
from
folks
and
it's
mostly
say
about
95
percent,
send
more
officers
in
our
neighborhood
and
there's
only
a
handful
of
folks.
That
feel
as
though
they're
they're.
Not.
They
call
me
at
least
to
suggest
that
they've
been
unfairly
treated
and
I'm
reminded
of
a
conversation.
S
I
had
last
summer
at
the
Tool
Library,
with
a
couple
residents
who
were
talking
and
there
were
different
races
about
they
felt
their
children
being
mistreated
by
the
police
and
I,
was
horrified
to
hear
their
stories
and
and
so
I
showed
them
the
website
and
how
to
download
the
form
told
him.
What
to
do.
I
gave
him
my
cell
phone
number
and,
to
my
knowledge,
they
never
filed
a
complaint.
Nor
have
they
reached
out
to
me
and
in
reflecting
on
that.
S
It
occurred
to
me
and
as
I've
talked
to
others,
that
that
might
be
a
function
of
the
fact
that
they
don't
feel
safe
in
talking
to
directly
to
the
police
department,
or
perhaps
even
me
as
the
alderman,
in
spite
of
our
best
intentions,
and
so
when
I
look
at
this.
This
document
here
that's
been
put
in
front
of
us.
That
has
a
lot
of
different
organizations.
If.
S
Referring
to
this
document,
the
recommendation
for
civilian
review
board
that's
dated
last
week.
What
I'm
seeing
here
is
a
conversation
about
a
lot
of
different
principles
that
I
think
are
important
and
Jeff
had
sent
us
an
email
over
the
weekend
and
I
wanted
to
highlight
one
particular
portion
of
if.
S
So
you
know,
as
dave
sages
is
fond
of
pointing
out
and
talking
about
processes.
You
know
we.
We,
our
job
here,
is
to
focus
on
the
what's
and
let's
staff
kind
of
work
out
the
house
and
what
I'm
seeing
here
is
some
principles
that
I'd
like
to
advocate
for
number
one
and
I'll
just
comment
on
each
of
them.
I
never
want
to
be
accused
of
not
being
clear
on
where
I
am,
and
these
types
of
issues
is
number
one.
S
More
avenues
for
submission
of
civilian
complaints-
you
know,
Police
Department
could
be
one
the
human
resource
department
I'd
like
to
suggest
we
throw
in
the
clerk
as
well.
So
just
that
there's
people
that
can,
if
you
want
to
go
to
any
one
of
those
entities,
you
have
those
options.
So
then,
following
the
process
of
notarizing
and
putting
everything
in
order
number
two
additional
independent
review
of
civilian
complaints,
I
think
this
is
a
reasonable
request.
S
Only
in
the
fact
that,
because
this
is
an
appointed
position
and
not
an
elected
position,
that
we
should
be
very
careful
in
how
we
do
that,
I'd
be
okay
with
some
period
of
time
since
the
conviction
but
IFIF,
that's
anything
with
active
or
pending.
You
would
want
to
have,
but
at
some
point
in
time
you
know.
Maybe
we've
come
to
a
point
seven
years,
ten
years,
whatever
it
be,
so
we
can
get
those
folks
in
their
perspective
on
there.
But
this
is
a
very
important
conversation.
S
T
You
mayor
and
my
question
relates
to
something
that
got
hit
on
here:
alderman
black,
this
idea
of
developing
the
comfort
level
so
that
the
conversation
goes
on,
and
so
my
question
relates
to
currently
what
do
we
have
in
place
as
far
as
community
input
forums
and
community
feedback
mechanisms
so
that
before
we
even
get
to
a
time
when
an
incident
has
occurred
such
that
a
complaint
has
to
be
filed,
how
do
we
cause
that
conversation
to
occur?
Do
we
have?
What
do
we
have
formally
in
place
now
to
facilitate
conversation?
Well,.
O
I
go
to
a
lot
of
meetings,
I
go
to
meetings
where
I'm
not
even
allowed
to
speak,
but
I
go
also
we
put
on
things,
but
nothing
bars,
someone
from
calling
saying
they
would
like
to
you
know
we
ask
if
it's
a
complaint
or
something
I,
first,
direct
them
to
assistant
chief
wheeler
or,
if
they
really
or
if
they
want
to
discuss
something,
people
call
my
office
and
they
come
in
and
we
discuss
things.
I
will
tell
you
that
we
have
a
great
working
relationship
with
the
n-double-a-cp.
O
They
have
come
in
with
people
who
had
complaints
and
we
discuss
it.
We
also
you
know.
Sometimes
you
know
we
learn
things
that
we
didn't
know.
I
made
some
changes
that
were
prompted
by
the
n-double-a-cp
I.
Guess,
a
lot
of
what
I'm
saying
is
we're
kind
of
doing
things.
Nothing
stops
any
of
these
organizations.
I've
met
with
one
organization
a
few
times
now,
I've
seen
like
Elmo.
How
many
versions
of
this
document
that
you
have
it
changes?
O
So
there's
not
anybody
here
that
could
ever
say
that
they
can't
get
to
me
to
talk
to
me
to
have
me
come
to
a
meeting
or
representative
and
to
get
to
all
in
that
blacks
point.
That's
not
gonna
change,
I!
Don't
it
I'm
not
always
going
to
be.
You
know
you
just
can't
go
to
things
where
everybody
is
going
to
be
happy.
You
have
to
go
to
other
things
where
you're
going
to
you.
O
U
I
was
I
was
happy
to
hear
you
say
something
earlier.
Excuse
me
that
you
enforce
the
law,
because
I've
heard
in
a
bunch
of
different
conversations
about
little.
That's
not
fair.
Well,
that's
not
necessarily
what
your
job
is
to
do:
it'sit's
to
enforce
the
law
and
justice
and,
what's
perceived
as
fair,
may
or
may
not
be
the
same
thing
so
I
just
appreciated.
You
made
that
comment
earlier
and,
and
one
of
the
things
in
a
sense
of
you
know,
we've
all
been
doing
a
lot
of
reading
on
this.
U
Since
it
was
announced
we
were
going
to
talk
about
tonight
and
there's
been
plenty
of
stories
that
have
been
in
the
media
about
it
recently
and
so
I
made
what
maybe
a
rookie
alderman
mistake
and
I
read
the
comments,
and
you
know
what's
disturbing
to
me
about
doing.
That,
though,
is
that
there
seems
to
be
a
position
that
a
lot
of
people
have,
that
it's
impossible
to
have
a
citizen
review
board
and
still
support
the
police
that
we
it
has
to
be
either/or.
U
You
know
we
can't
have
a
conversation
about
what
how
our
community
is
run
without
not
supporting
the
police
and
III.
Think
that
everybody
up
here
would
be
the
first
in
line
to
say
that
we're
we're
highly
supportive
of
our
Police
Department.
We
are
going
to
continue
to
make
sure
that
you
have
all
these.
You
know
the
Ismet
staffing
as
we
can
all
the
equipment
necessary
to
keep
everybody
safe.
That's
on
our
force,
but
I
don't
see
where
it
has
to
be
an
either/or
conversation.
U
You
know
you
could
have
somebody
who
is
against
you
know
going
to
war
somewhere
in
the
world,
but
they're
still
perfectly
good,
Americans
and
they're
still
supportive
of
be
American
and
everything
we
just
we
stand
for
it
doesn't
have
to
be
either/or.
So
it's
got
to
your
points.
I
appreciate
what
you
said.
There
I
think
that,
looking
at
something
along
the
lines
of
a
citizen
review
board-
and
you
know,
there's
a
ton
of
details
to
be
worked
out
but
I
feel
like
that
is
a
chief.
U
Unless
there's
some
way
that
I'm,
not
imagining
that
we
are,
we
could
damage
the
department.
You
know
by
having
this
citizen
review
board
I,
don't
see
any
reason
not
to
continue
to
explore
ideas
and
stuff
I
know
we
have
issues
around
confidentiality,
but
is
there
something
I'm
not
seeing
here
that
we
would
damage
the
department
by
having
citizen
review
board
before.
A
He
answers
because
we're
going
to
go
on
for
a
little
bit
and
it
also
give
you
a
minute
to
think
a
chief
could
I
have
a
motion
for
us
to
extend
our
public
comment.
Excuse
me,
our
our
discussion
for
another
15
minutes
and
move
by
all
the
women
Schmidt
second
by
all
Owen
Hellman.
Would
everyone
please
vote.
A
A
O
Think
you
heard
from
the
legal
person
that
there
are
contractual
issues,
so
there
can't
be
an
independent
review
now.
I
have
said
that
I
will
talk
to
anybody
and
I
have
I
will
continue
to
do
that,
I'm
a
proponent
of
using
the
process.
If
your
organization,
those
people
who
want
to
file
complaint,
but
they
haven't
and
some
people
I've
talked
to
like
someone
said
some
having
20
years
ago,
there's
not
a
lot.
I
can
do
about
that,
but
you
can
be
a
advocate
for
them.
I
guess,
I'm,
a
believer
in
the
process.
O
Don't
say
the
process
doesn't
work
if
it
hasn't
been
used
and
if
we
have
some
people
that
feel
like
that,
then
advocate
for
them
bringing
them
complaints,
you
could
take
it
HR.
You
could
take
it
to
legal.
However,
it's
done
as
long
as
it
gets
over
there
to
us
because
that's
respecting
the
person.
You
know
that
you're
making
complain
about
or
the
department
in
a
matter
what
business
you're
in
everywhere
has
a
process.
O
O
Just
absolutely
we're
not
supposed
to
be
biased,
and
we
look
at
things
I.
Think
I
told
you
earlier
today.
If
we
can
investigate
one
of
our
own
and
I
terminate
them
I'm
man
enough
to
investigate
anything
else.
That
needs
to
be
done,
but
that's
me
I
know,
opinions
vary,
so
I
will
continue
to
talk
to
people.
I
will
be
open
about
ways
to
improve
the
process
for
people
to
file.
O
Complaints
like
I,
said:
I
look
forward
to
it,
because
what
we're
doing
is
communicating
and
conversing,
and
if
I
learn
something
that
we
got
to
do
better.
That's
fine!
If
we
educate
somebody
on
why
we
did
something-
or
maybe
it's
something
with
the
law
and
I
need
to
tell
them.
They
need
to
speak
with
the
state's
attorney
or
their
state
reps,
because
it's
a
law,
that's
what
we
do,
but
we
only
do
that
when
we're
communicating
and
talking
to
each
other
and
not
at
each
other.
That's.
U
I
think
that's
a
perfectly
fair
answer.
One
of
the
things
that
you
mentioned
in
there
is
there
are
some
legal
ramifications
that
have
to
be
dealt
with
in
this,
but
if
it
was
a,
you
know
a
non-bonding
advisory
committee
that
probably
doesn't
impact
those
legal
ramifications.
The
same
way
there's
details
to
be
worked
out,
but
it
sounds
like
you
know.
U
If
what
we're
talking
about
is
where
we're
talking
about
people
who
follow
the
process
but
they're
not
unhappy
they're
unhappy
with
the
out
of
the
process
of
giving
them
another
Avenue
outside
of
that
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
details
to
be
worked
out,
but
it
sounds
like
there's
not
anything
necessary
that
actually
harms
the
police
department.
By
doing
this
right
now,
I.
A
O
It
if
you
ever
in
anything
that
would
happen
to
in
regards
with
a
police
officer,
it
has
to
be
done
by
the
department,
but
that
doesn't
mean
that
they
cannot
use
a
human
relations
committee
as
a
mechanism
to
get
the
complaint
over.
You
know
somebody
feels
there
they're
not
safe
or
whatever,
or
they
can
let
the
human
relations
committee
look
at
their
complaint
right.
C
Q
You
so
two
or
three
different
things:
Kim
want
to
follow
up
on
something
that
you
asked
chief,
because
we've
also
you've
also
had
some
some
efforts,
like
I,
think
coffee
with
a
cop
ice
cream
with
a
cop
you've
also
had
those
are
a
couple
of
other
community
touch
points
that
I
think
have
have
been
put
in
place
since
since
you've
been
here
as
well.
Q
Q
What's
the
problem
we're
trying
to
solve
because
I,
because
I
have
yet
to
hear
a
a
for
myself,
a
compelling
reason
for
a
citizen
review
board,
especially
given
the
fact
that
that
we've
learned
here
tonight
that
you
have
a
couple
of
options
to
access
the
forum
itself.
You
can
either
come
in
in
person
and
get
it
or
you
can
download
it.
Q
Then
the
next
level
of
access
points
then,
would
be
giving
the
giving
that
the
correctly
filled
out
form
back
to
us.
So
we've
heard
the
Human
Relations
Commission,
as
one
we've
heard.
The
police
department
is
one
I,
think
Scott
alluded
to
you
know.
Perhaps
the
city
clerk
might
be
an
option.
I.
Think
chief,
you
just
you
just
said,
you
know,
could
be
legal,
it
could
be
human
resources
so
there
so
so
it
seems
to
me
that
getting
a
hold
of
the
forum
you
have,
you
have
a
couple
of
options
for
that.
Q
How
you
how
you
bring
that
form
into
the
system.
There
are
I,
think
a
number
of
options
for
that.
We
we
have
a
process
and
internally
for
reviewing
those
up
through
and
including
the
city
manager
and
the
mayor,
and
then
beyond
that
we
have
then
there's
the
opportunity
for
someone
could
could
go
to
and
file
something
in
a
court
of
law.
Okay.
So
so
what
I'm?
Looking
at
when
I
look
at
that
and
I
say:
okay,
you
can
you
can
get
a
hold
of
the
foreman
anima
Slee.
Q
If
you
want
to
you,
you
can
fill
it
out.
There
are
multiple
ways
to
submit
it.
We
have
a
fairly
detailed
process
for
investigating
those,
and
then
there
are
there
are
opportunities.
Then,
depending
on
the
outcome
of
our
own
investigation
for
somebody
to
to
follow,
if
they're
not
satisfied
with
that,
so
the
question
I
keep
coming
back
to
it,
and
and
also
in
addition
to
to
what
alderman
painter
asked
about,
was
the
fact
that
you
know
we're
very
intentionally
pursuing
body
cameras
for
use
by
our
police
force.
A
Thank
you,
I
think.
The
the
general
answer
that
question
at
with
in
other
communities
and
I
think
possibly
implied
by
some
here,
is
when
citizens
review
rather
than
oversight
boards,
but
review
boards
are
established.
It's
usually
because
they
want
an
independent
set
of
eyes
rather
than
the
internal
process.
I
think
that's
the
that
would,
generally
speaking,
be
the
rationale
all
in
the
middle
one
way.
Q
And
and
Mayerson
she
chose
to
respond
to
me.
I
will
say
I
think
I
understand
that,
but
again,
I
haven't
heard
a
compelling
reason
for
why
I
as
an
elected
official
would
support
the
review
board.
I
haven't
seen
any
any
gaping
holes
in
the
process
that
suggests
that
that
this
is
fundamental
change
in
the
operations
and
oversight
of
the
police
department.
It
suggests,
at
least
for
me
personally,
mr.
speaker,
for
myself,
shut
up
any
any
type
of
a
review
board
right.
Although.
R
So
we
we
do
have
to
figure
out,
then
you
know
how
we're
going
to
deal
with
that
perception.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
came
to
to
my
attention.
I
was
listening
to
a
I,
guess,
aglt,
a
report
of
a
couple
people
who
you
know
who
were
talking
about
their
experience
about
filing
a
complaint,
and
it
made
me
think
that
you
know-
and
this
is
not
a
I
think
you
know
when
it
comes
to
to
the
chief
you
know
and
and
other
police
officers
and
others
were
involved
in
the
process.
R
Yes
I,
you
know,
I
know
that
she
very
well
I
know
what
kind
of
person
he
is,
but
others
on
the
other
side,
don't
necessarily
know
know.
You
know
how
you
do
your
job,
so
I
think
the
couple
was
talking
about
the
fact
that
it
wasn't
just
about
filling
out
the
form
and
turning
it
in,
but
it
was
you
know
afterwards.
You
know
that
the
fear
that
some
people
might
feel
about
you
know
having
filled
out
the
form
and
what
exactly
is
going
to
happen?
You
know:
are
they
going
to
face
some
sort
of
retaliation?
R
O
Of
all,
like
I,
said,
I've
only
been
chief
here
a
little
over
three
years,
but
I've
been
around
here.
No
one
to
my
knowledge,
well
I
would
just
say
since
I've
been
here,
but
even
other
investigations,
because
when
I
was
working
for
another
agency,
I
would
have
been
called
in
to
investigate
it,
never
had
any
incidents,
a
retaliation
now
did
they
occur,
something
nobody
knew
about
it.
That
could
be,
however,
it
is
hard
if
you're
not
open-minded,
to
do
things,
but
one
thing
you
have
to
look
at.
O
You
know
we're
about
80,000
depending
on
the
day,
but
we
are
not
that
big.
So,
hypothetically,
if
an
officer
was
going
out
and
did
some
things
after
a
complaint
was
filed
as
a
retaliatory,
it
would
kind
of
stand
out
a
lot
and
between
the
dash
cams
and
the
cars
between
witnesses.
We
would
follow
up
on
that
vigorously
because
we
don't
want
anybody
to
feel
like
that,
but
I
think
we
get
painted
with
a
broad
brush
because
of
some
incidents
that
have
occurred
in
other
places,
and
that
is
unfair
to
these
officers
here
now.
O
Do
we
do
some
things
wrong
at
times?
Absolutely?
Can
we
improve
absolutely
as
a
community?
Are
we
perfect?
No,
but
I
will
tell
you.
This
is
a
great
place,
go
north,
south,
east
and
west
and
then
come
back.
Compare
it.
We're
pretty
good
I
think
that,
besides
what
almond
sage
says,
as
far
as
using
these
entities
within
a
city,
an
organization
can
bring
it
forward
a
complaint
on
behalf
of
somebody
with
the
paperwork
filled
out
properly
now
I
can't
speak
for
a
hundred
percent,
but
they're
going
to
monitor
what
happens
and
what
goes
on.
O
I
think
we
have
a
process
I
think
we
have
a
good
process.
I
told
you
about
who
we
have
involved.
We
even
have
an
early
warning
system
officers
get
a
certain
amount
of
complaints
it
kept.
We
don't
have
to
look
it
up.
We
don't
get
that
many
as
it
is,
but
an
officer
has
a
certain
amount
of
complaints.
It's
going
to
be
flagged
and
we
might
have
to
look
at
it.
O
It
might
be
something
it
might
not
one
other
thing
I
will
tell
you
is
that
when
we
look
at
complaints,
while
it
may
come
back,
not
sustained,
that
doesn't
mean
we
don't
talk
that
officer
and
say
hey,
you
know
what
this
is
not
sustained,
but
maybe
the
next
time
your
tone
could
have
been
a
little
better
or
maybe
you
could
have
done
a
better
job
explaining
the
situation.
So
to
get
back
to
your
point,
and
just
it's
just
going
to
take
work,
and
quite
honestly,
we
can't
please
everybody.
O
A
Yeah
or
times
an
end
I,
but
I'm
going
to
turn
to
all
the
woman
howlman
for
just
a
couple
will
take
leave
of
that,
especially
if
it's
quick
I
just
want
to
let
everybody
know
that,
certainly
all
of
the
evidence
that
I've
ever
seen
at
US
Conference
of
Mayors
on
body
cameras,
it
reduces
significantly
the
injuries
to
officers
and
to
civilians,
and
that's
certainly
something
that
is
certainly
coming,
and
it
could
be
part
of
investigations
afterwards.
N
Chief
thanks
for
being
with
us
tonight,
I
think
you
know
I
support
the
police
and
have
great
respect
for
officers
and
their
skills
and
the
commitment
they
have
to
our
community,
but
I
also,
and
that
I
also
appreciate
the
the
five
organizations
that
have
come
together
to
at
least
start
this
conversation.
We
don't
know
where
it's
going
to
go,
but
to
you
bring
their
concerns
to
us
that
they
feel
comfortable,
trying
to
as
I
say,
remove
barriers
and
build
build
trust
and
is
alderman.
N
Melambe
mentioned
it's
it's
easier
to
there's
a
perception
and
for
my
experience
it's
easier
to
change
reality
than
it
is
to
change
perception,
and
you
know
I
think
you've
been
working
on
changing
reality
and
and
hopefully,
by
learning
more
about
how
the
police
handles
complaints
and
so
forth.
We
can
hopefully
change
that
perception
as
well,
but
I
do
it.
I
do
appreciate
the
the
five
organizations
that
have
come
together.
N
A
This
point,
to
summarize,
and
is
it
seems,
like
there's
some
degree
of
interest,
not
universal
in
at
least
exploring
some
options
in
other
communities,
I
think
as
alderman
black
suggested,
and
this
would
be
some
kind
of
review.
It
sounds
like
from
legal
standpoint.
It
would
have
to
be
before
the
regular
procedure,
an
advisory
group
that
might
filter
complaints
before
him.
For
the
content.
A
A
A
C
Spectrum
of
ways
you
could
go
about
risk
this
review
and
some
of
them
deal
with
actually
reviewing
the
internal
affairs
investigation
once
it's
completed.
One
of
them
deals
with
actually
a
different
investigation
that
takes
place
outside
of
internal
affairs,
and
one
of
them
is
more
of
an
auditor
monitor
systemic
policy
recommendation
type
function,
so
there's
really
three
main
ones.
The
investigation
stop
planting
the
police
IA.
If
an
internal
investigation
would
run
into
the
most
problems
with
our
current
course
collective
bargaining
agreement.
A
S
Thank
you
I'll
just
be
clear
about
what
what
I
think
will
be.
A
best-case
scenario
is
that
before
in
that
report,
we're
looking
for
the
best
fit
so
I'd
like
to
see
what
that
would
look
like
for
Bloomington
in
actual
ordinance,
and
we
can
sort
some
of
those
details
out
based
on
the
principles
that
have
been
outlined
here.
So
we
can
see
what
that
would
look
like
to
our
collective
bargaining
agreements
and
that
we
can
determine
if
that's
something
that
we
often
ago
she
ate
or
how
that
shapes
out.
S
A
A
We
have
staff,
take
a
look
at
this
and
report
back
to
us
about
what
our
options
are.
Some
of
the
rather
than.
N
Q
A
Think
what
we
would
probably
then
do
is
bring
have
another
Committee
of
the
Whole
meeting.
I,
don't
know
what
I
would
say:
I'd
have
to
talk
to
the
city
manager
in
terms
of
what
things
are
coming
up
on
our
agenda,
possibly
next
month
and
that's
plenty
of
time
for
people
to
do
extra
homework.
And
then,
if
there's
support
for
a
particular
option,
then
we
at
that
point
could
direct
the
staff
to
come
up
with
an
ordinance.
Q
A
M
A
M
Don't
know
that
I
certainly
don't
know
that
I
fully
appreciated
what
you
were
saying
in
terms
of
avenues
for
filing
concerns
and
complaints,
the
any
kind
of
protocol
for
investigation-
and
you
know,
testing
of
evidence
or
what
what
might
happen
outside
a
legal
realm
that
has
to
do
with
a
citizen,
engagement
and
policing
I
mean
you
know.
Is
there
some
line
there?
I
s
I'd
I,
need
to
understand
the
contract
better
and
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
proposing
ideas
that
have
I,
don't
know
future
I'll.
C
Try
to
have
an
expression,
the
contract
that
I
mentioned
earlier.
This
is
a
collective
bargaining
agreement
unit
number
21.
It
says
in
five
point
four:
a
that
you
can't
reinvestigate
so
essentially
in
the
current
contra
language
among
the
three
different
main
types
of
you,
investigative
and
auditor
monitor
the
investigative
is
a
complete
civilian
investigation,
that's
occurring
instead
of
the
police
investigation
or
alongside
it.
So
if
it
was
occurring
alongside
our
current
process,
it
would
be
in
violation
of
the
contract
so
that
one
fell.
That
would
be
I
mean.
A
I
just
like
to
absolutely
could
you
send
us
a
memo
summarizing
that
not
a
problem?
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
right,
okay,
so
stay
tuned.
Alright.
At
this
point,
we
will
move
on
and
we
move
on
to
the
next
item
on
our
agenda
item
6,
which
is
presentation,
discussion
of
possible
direction
regarding
infrastructure
oversizing
at
the
Grove,
and
we
have
a
brief
presentation
by
mr.
de
briare
and
then
some
council
discussion,
I.
V
V
Okay,
thank
you
mayor
and
council.
I
have
a
few
goals
and
I
don't
want
to
in
I've
got
five
minutes
and
the
clock
started
already.
I
want
to
provide
a
very
brief
background
on
the
issue
that
we're
talking
about
a
little
bit
on
fiscal
impact.
Talk
about
the
camera
is
a
plan,
and
then
you
know
what
do
the
City
Attorney's
say?
I
do
want
to
acknowledge
Jim
karch,
who
reviewed,
contributed
to
and
review
the
report,
Bob
Gale
Jeff
Jergens
and
his
all
of
their
respective
teams.
V
They're
available
to
answer
questions
tonight,
but
George
Boyle
is
here
in
Jeff
Jergens
place.
The
annexation
agreement
for
the
Grove
was
adopted
in
2005,
and
it
states
that
if
oversizing
in
the
sanitary
truck
trunk
sewer
is
required,
the
city's
responsible
for
those
costs
based
on
the
geographic
areas
service
will
touch
on
that
again
and
I've
already
lost
a
minute.
V
Well,
does
it
that
again
in
a
couple
of
minutes,
so
the
question
before
us
ultimately
is:
should
the
oversizing
requirement
be
triggered
we're
not
making
recommendation
tonight
we're
simply
providing
some
information
that
represents
input
from
several
departments?
So
assuming
the
work
was
triggered
by
the
city,
the
work
would
be
done
by
the
developer.
V
Now
let
me
jump
into
the
revenue
and
fiscal
impact
analysis.
It's
a
expected
that
$300,000
could
be
recouped
by
tap
on
fees,
there's
also
water
service,
oversizing
and
possibly
some
pavement
expansion.
The
water
service
could
could
be
recouped
in
water
bills.
The
added
pavement
would
likely
come
from
property
tax
revenues.
Of
course,
this
all
assumes
that
there
is
sufficient
growth
in
the
future
on
the
east
side
to
generate
the
tap
on
fees
in
the
taxes.
V
Alternatively-
and
this
is
a
fairly
common
approach-
the
tax
burden
could
be
shifted
to
residents
and
property
owners
elsewhere
in
the
community,
and
this
occurs
right
now.
For
example,
the
Grove
areas
of
fiscal
net
loss
to
the
city
according
to
the
comprehensive
plan
and
the
fiscal
impact
analysis
contained
therein,
its
fiscal
net
loss
of
about
four
hundred
eighty
eight
dollars
per
acre
per
year
and
obviously
adding
more
to
oversizing
costs
for
the
city
would
simply
increase
that
particular
deficit.
V
There
are
areas
that
are
net
positive
and
that
tends
to
pay
for
residential
areas
that
aren't
it's
pretty
common
for
those
to
be
net
negatives.
Congress
a
plan
provides
a
some
guidance
throughout
first
when
I
ask
the
question
you
know:
will
this
growth
even
occur?
I
can
tell
you
that
not
just
here
but
nationwide
population
forecasts
are
lower,
household
numbers
are
lower.
That's
been
taken
into
consideration
here.
V
The
comprehensive
plan
also
included
commercial
employment
areas
still
within
the
core
of
the
city
near
existing
residential
properties,
and
we
have
a
specific
goal
in
the
comprehensive
plan
that
addresses
this
specific
question.
It's
found
on
page
215
of
the
comprehensive
plan
C
F
1.4
and
it
directs
the
city
to
focus
resources
on
maintaining
and
developing
I'm
running
out
of
time,
developing
facilities
that
support
the
goal
of
contiguous
and
compact
growth
again
contiguous
and
compact
growth.
The
plan
provides
some
tools
to
help
do
this.
It
talks
about
development
priorities.
V
It
set
up
a
tier
1,
tier
2,
2
or
3
system,
tier
1,
being
the
top
priority
tier
3
being
the
lowest
priority
for
the
Grove
I
want
to
be
clear.
The
Grove
itself
can
continue
to
develop.
That
is
a
tier
1.
According
to
the
plan,
it's
the
areas
outside
that
we're
talking
about
the
need
for
the
oversizing
and
those
are
tier,
2
and
tier
3
areas,
so
they're
lower
priorities,
and
there
is
a
some
question.
V
I
included
this
in
the
document,
some
other
reports
that
suggest
that
it
might
not
be
as
strong
of
a
growth
as
once
imagined.
The
legal
perspective
is
really
pretty
straightforward.
The
city
may
demand
the
oversizing
or
not.
There
is
really
no
trigger
the
city,
may
exercise
either
option
and
the
attorneys,
but
the
attorneys
do
point
out
and
made
a
point
of
indicating
that
there's
something
you
know.
V
V
A
N
Planned
on
asking
it
just
be
pulled,
but
I
didn't
because
I
I
thought
the
conversation
would
be
valuable.
At
least
I
was
disappointed
that
we
didn't
have
a
discussion
with
the
homeowners
association
or
the
developers,
and
you
may
have,
but
we
haven't.
If
that
not
one
and
when
I
say
you,
the
city
staff,
not
you
particularly
I.
N
I
feel
like
we
should
have
included
them
in
this
discussion
just
so,
they
would
know
what
was
happening.
We
I
and
I
Jim
I,
apologize,
I'm
being
somewhat
territorial
here,
but
I
do
represent.
I
was
elected
by
the
people
in
Ward
8
to
be
represented
on
City
Council
and,
although
I
I
do
try
to
look
at
the
city
as
a
whole,
one
I'm
making
decisions,
since
this
is
a
ward,
8
I
feel
it's
important.
I
sometimes
feel
like
we're.
N
We're
always
kind
of
kicking
the
grove,
because
for
whatever
whatever
happened
before
it's
kind
of
like
the
Colosseum
we've
got
the
Colosseum,
let's
make
the
best
of
it
got.
The
grove
is,
is
former
alderman
frou
and
his
told
us,
not
everybody.
You
know,
wants
to
live
in
a
historic
neighborhood
of
historic
house,
and
that's
fine
I
mean
we
that's
why
we
live
in
America.
N
N
M
F
N
A
V
N
N
N
L
P
P
In
mind,
the
the
requests
at
hand
is
that
is
the
determine.
Is
the
council's
majority
willing
to
support
the
recommendation,
and
that
is
to
consider
a
budget
amendment
to
remove
the
Grove
sewer
oversizing
project
and
using
those
funds
for
projects
in
areas
of
highest
need
consistent
with
2015
comp
plans?
So
again,
that's
the
issue
at
hand
and
you.
P
And,
and
furthermore
is
because
you
know
the
first
step
is
to
bring
it
back
to
a
committee
of
the
whole
there.
You
know
we
are
still
at
a
very
early
stage,
so
there
just
hasn't
been
that
outreach
at
alderman
Harmons
requests.
We
are
going
to
follow
up
on
a
request.
She
had
that
we
meet
with
the
Groves
homeowners
association,
talk
about
this
issue.
We
also
have
not
sat
down
with
the
developers
of
the
grove
or
developers.
Anyone
else
at
this
point
in
time.
T
So
if
we
take
a
look
at
this
and
say
that
we're
going
to
allow
the
developer
developer
to
go
forward
with
8-inch
pipe
rather
than
the
up
sized
pipe
I'd
like
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
opportunities
potentially
missed,
so
are
we
thinking
about
opportunities
for
residential
growth?
Are
we
looking
at
precluding
commercial
growth
in
this
space
and
and
that's
that's
kind
of
where
I'm
going
with
that.
V
Really
the
plan
had
called
out
well.
First
of
all,
the
annexation
agreement
was
based
on
negotiations
from
2005,
which
is
very
different
than
what
the
current
plan
says
so
inherent
in
that
particular
assumption
that
leads
us
to
that.
97%
is
some
kind
of
even
amount
of
demand
across
13,000
acres.
You
know,
if
not
spot
by
spot
on
average,
and
that's
really
not
based
on
any
projection
that
I'm
aware
of
I
think
that's
just
an
assumption.
V
At
one
point,
there
was
a
thought
that
that
the
East
Highway
would
come
through
that
area
in
talking
with
the
Regional
Planning
Commission
they're,
not
so
confident
anymore,
that
would
have
provided
an
amount
of
infrastructure
that
would
have
allowed
some
additional
opportunities
for
growth.
So
you
know
it's
a
it's
really:
a
mix
of
employment,
centers
and
and
residential
its
plan
for
that
area.
But
it's
really
planned
in
that.
V
You
know
20
year
timeframe
to
20
years
to
30
year
time
frame
into
the
future
and
probably,
if
you're
talking
in
the
13,000
acres,
it's
quite
beyond
that
time,
I'm,
probably
looking
at
more
like
50
years.
That
said,
we
don't
have
population
projections
that
are
suggesting
that
and
in
fact
there
is
a
significant
amount
of
space
within
fill
and
in
the
tier
two
areas
that
are
immediately
adjacent
in
the
one
thing
that
tier
1
and
tier
2,
which
is
priority
on
a
priority.
V
2
development
priorities
have
in
common,
is
the
ability
to
expand
without
expanding
utilities
or
roadways.
Things
like
that
for
the
most
part
so,
and
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
it's
more
cost-effective
to
develop
inside
the
city
as
opposed
to
out
on
the
fringe.
So
you
know
it's
hard
to
answer
your
question
specifically,
but
there,
because
there
are
so
many
assumptions
that
go
into
that
and
and
the
sizing
of
the
pipe
you
at
this
point.
P
P
If
I
could,
just
as
a
follow-up
to
that
question,
could
I
ask
Jim
cards
to
come
forward
because
I
I
think
there
is
an
issue
on
just
the
current
cost
differential
current
versus
your
future
and
having
the
developer
put
in
an
8
inch
pipe
but
then
later
on
in
the
future.
If
we
had
come
back,
dig
it
up
up
size.
Can
you
just
comment
a
little
on
that
issue
and
and
the
opportunity
costs
that
could
be
lost
from
the
cost
differential
now
and
in
the
future
through.
W
Thank
you,
city
manager,
to
your
point,
that
is,
that
is
correct
from
from
an
opportunity
perspective.
Again,
it
depends
on
when
it
whether
it
develops
or
not
this.
This
grove
subdivision
is
at
the
low
point
of
that
13,000
acres,
that
the
study
stopped.
The
we
went
back
and
looked
at
13,000
acres
has
been
used
because
that
was
the
best
number
I
could
remember
the
night
we
first
had.
That
was
a
great
number.
W
Everybody
seems
to
capitalize
on
that,
but
but
we
went
back
which
I
defined,
how
many
acres
and
the
study
only
extended
just
over
7,000,
but
it
stopped.
It
actually
continues
out.
We
remember
an
old
number,
but
but
again
whether
you
say
seven,
eight
thousand
it's
hard
to
even
fathom
in
this,
but
whenever
you
talk
about
that
kind
of
numbers,
but
the
opportunity
cost
that
city
manager
was
referring
to
is.
This
is
a
stream
restoration
area.
W
W
So
in
this
case
the
issue
might
be
is
down
the
road
if
we
went
to
build
a
parallel
sewer,
the
cost
in
a
stream
restoration
area
and
when
back
with
backyards,
does
exponentially
increase,
and
so
but
again
that
goes
back
to
that
larger
concept
of
from
from
the
council
priority
is:
where
do
they
want
to
go?
If
you
know
we
can,
we
can
say
this
annexation
agreement,
but
future
ones
are
for
the
for
the
council
to
determine
and
accept.
S
We
roll
the
dice
on
putting
this
here
and
I
get.
We
don't
want
to
tear
people's
yards
down
the
road
and
that
might
be
an
unwise
decision,
but
I
can
sleep
comfortably
at
night.
Knowing
that
the
reason
why
I
want
to
do
this,
we
have
limited
resources.
This
is
not
a
lot
of
money.
This
is
something
that
we
can
do
to
make
a
big
impact
in
our
historic
core,
which
can
absolutely
impact
many
people
who
live
in
Bloomington
currently
and
are
not
based
on
a
future
projection.
So
I
certainly
understand
my
colleagues
opinion
on
this.
S
A
Excuse
me,
thank
you
very
much
well
and
of
course,
there's
no
reason
why,
if,
for
some
reason
there
was
development,
that's
needed
that
the
developer
couldn't
pay
for
it,
rather
than
current
tax
payers
20
years
from
now
30
years
from
now
or
they
could
incorporate
and
then
provide
their
own,
because
there
would
be
911
service
problems
like
we
have
in
you
know
all
a
woman,
Bray's
or
imagine
the
ones
we
have.
If
you
had
to
do
a
big
circle
and
go
all
the
way
up.
A
U
U
Yeah,
okay,
so
I
mean.
Are
we
talking
about
we're
going
to
add
a
thousand
more
or
because
I?
You
know
where
I
was
going
with?
That
I
was
I
was
just
wondering
because
we
already
talked
about.
We
have
a
hard
time
delivering
emergency
services
to
the
Far
East
Side
as
it
is,
and
I
was
going
down
the
same
path
as
you
mayor
that
you
know
it's
a
lot
of
I
mean
it's
not
just
$300,000.
U
U
It
what
are
we
talking
about?
We
need
to
widen
the
streets
to
make
a
better
thoroughfare
to
people
to
get
further
back
down
in
there.
So
my
thought
was
is:
doesn't
that
kind
of
set
us
up
for
the
same
problem
that
we
have
that
we
address,
or
the
multi
council
addressed
us
a
few
weeks
ago
with
the
the
the
Fox
Creek
Road,
where
we
have
a
nice
wide
lane
and
everybody's
driving
as
fast
as
they
can
through
there
in
the
neighborhood,
wanted
it
slowed
down,
I
mean,
aren't
we
propagating
the
same
issue
to
happen?
U
That's
a
good
point:
that's
a
very
good
point
too
and
Jim
the
last
time
this
came
before
council.
You
actually
mentioned
you
were
going
to
go
back
and
look
at
whether
or
not
the
eight-inch
line
actually
might
be
big
enough
to
service
the
area
anyway
and
I
was
curious.
What
you
had
discovered
on
that
our.
W
Staff
did
take
a
look
at
the
eight
inch
line
it
can
it
serve.
Can
an
eight
inch
extension
of
the
sanitary
sewer
serve
the
remainder
of
the
Grove
subdivision
if
it
continued
it
could
at
the
the
base
level
of
at
least
these
are
very
preliminary
calculations,
not
a
lot
of.
If
you
look
at
the
overall
flow
anticipated,
we
do
believe
that
it
could
accommodate
it.
So
that
is
positive
that
wouldn't
accommodate
for
a
lot
beyond
further
to
the
north,
but
it
would
allow
for
the
continuation
of
that.
So
we
did
take
a
look
at
it.
W
U
W
U
And
I'm
just
curious-
and
this
is
just
a
I-
don't
even
know
if
there's
a
real
answer
to
this,
or
if
it's
just
a
kind
of
a
rhetorical
question
but
I
mean
is
the
policy
have
always
been?
You
know
we
have
developers
in
our
community
who
have
done
a
fabulous
job
of
building
subdivision
stuff,
but
is
the
policy
always
kind
of
been
of
a
if
you
develop
it?
U
The
city
will
an
exit
for
lack
of
a
better
term
I
mean
is
that
where
we've
always
been
in
the
past
and
so
doesn't
matter
where
we
want
growth
to
be
necessarily
a
low
the
comprehensive
plan,
but
if
a
developer
has
a
property
and
they
decide
I'm
going
to
develop,
but
even
if
it's
not
in
the
comprehensive
plan,
if
the
assumption
the
system
is
going,
the
city
is
going
to
annex
it
and
take
responsibility
for
it
anyway.
So.
W
P
P
If
there
is
this
annexation,
what
kind
of
financial
impact
is
that
going
to
have
on
the
city
both
from
a
revenue
standpoint,
but
also
on
the
expenditure,
an
Express
expense
standpoint,
and
is
this
project
going
to
be
sufficient
to
pay
its
own
way
to
actually
pay
for
the
growth
that
it
would
contribute
or
with
the
general
taxpayers,
have
to
subsidize
in
a
sense,
so
I
I
do
want
to
just
point
that
out
and
and
since
then
you
know
on
any
big
projects.
I
don't
think.
P
U
You
I
really
appreciate
that
a
30-second
story
of
when
I
was
in
accounting
classes
in
college
I
actually
had
a
meeting
here
at
the
city
in
engineering,
and
we
were
talking
looking
at
all
these
maps
that
cover
the
walls
everywhere
in
engineering
and
Jim
you
weren't
in
charge.
Yet
so
I'll
exempt
you
from
this
conversation,
but
I
asked
one
of
the
things
I
asked
was:
how
do
you
figure
out
a
return
on
investment
to
know?
If
we
should
do
these
things
or
not,
and
the
answer
I
got
was
what
are
you
talking
about
this?
U
R
Well,
one
is
one
comment.
I
know
we
keep
talking
about
population
projections,
but
I
wanted
to
point
out
that
people
might
actually.
There
are
some
people
who
like
new,
so
it
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
just
because
the
population
is
not
growing
doesn't
mean
that
there
won't
be
any
demand
for
newer
homes.
You
know
and
I
see
that
happening
in
the
community.
Quite
often
is
that
people,
you
know
after
four
or
five
years
in
one
neighborhood,
say
well
I'm
going
to
the
next
one
because
I
like,
what's
there
better
I'll,
let
you
commented
it
out.
R
V
Science,
I
well
a
couple
things,
first
of
all
tier
one
development
which
is
priority,
one
which
is
infill,
and
it's
not
just
infill,
it's
also
redevelopment
neck
and
that
does
produce
opportunities
for
new
construction
as
well
I,
it's
just
it's
an
emphasis.
Community.
Successful
communities
have
been
going
that
direction
over
the
last
10-15
years.
C
W
Compliment
that
a
lot
of
the
issues
for
Tier
one
within
for
the
infill
that
we're
going
to
find
and
and
we
with
the
city
manager
we've
been
talking
about
how
to
address
some
of
that
infrastructure.
A
lot
of
the
development
that
is
in
fill
its
not
developed
for
a
reason,
whether
it's,
whether
it's
a
water
or
sewer
or
some
kind
of
issue,
there's
some
recent
property
that
we've
been
talking
about.
W
There's
there's
a
reason
for
that,
so
we
as
a
as
a
community
has
to
figure
out
how
do
we
help
that
help
fill
that
in
because
people
are
just
looking
developers
are
just
looking
for
the
best
return,
their
own
return
on
investments
and
so
they're
trying
to
find
the
best
in
cheapest
land,
the
best
investment.
So
as
a
city,
we
have
to
find
ways
to
make
that
attractive
as
a
community.
So
those
are
challenges
we
have
to
come
up
with.
V
And
the
only
other
point
that
I
would
the
other
point
that
I
did
want
to
make
was
at
the
fringe
of
the
community
right
now
at
the
fringe
of
most
of
the
community,
where
residential
exists,
the
ability
to
develop
just
outside
of
that
is
still
there.
We
still
have
lots
of
room
for
new
development
beyond
the
Grove
silo
Grove
and
it's,
and
it
would
be
much
easier
to
serve
utilities,
fire
service,
police
services,
we're
about
to
talk
about
cable
or
you
know,
an
Internet
service
idea.
V
R
W
W
So,
instead
of
building
new
sewers
or
looking
at
that,
we
really
need
to
be
maintaining
what
we
have,
and
so
we
would
even
be
recommending
on
expanding
our
existing
lining
program
again
you're
seeing
you
know
it
varies
sometimes
two
and
a
half
times
cheaper
than
then
to
dig
up
new
sewers,
sometimes
much
greater
than
that.
So
so
that's
kind
of
what
we're
looking
at
from
an
overall
perspective.
W
It
costs
us
about
$50,000
a
block
to
resurface
so
that
you
have
some
kind
of
an
idea
on
what
does
that
money
get
surface
Ally
resurface,
so
I'm
jumping
to
asphalt.
So
you
have
an
idea
of
you
know.
$300,000
is
not
chump
change.
That
is
money
that
is
very
much
needed
in
every
infrastructure
facet
that
we
have.
R
And
then
I
was
also
looking
at
the
$125,000
for
three
widening
and
I
know.
We've
talked
about
that.
You
know
trying
to
slow
people
down
and
you
know-
and
you
know
more
cities
are
going
to
narrower
streets,
but
is
there
a
way
we
can
make
a
trade-off,
for
example
with
and
not
do
the
oversizing
of
the
street
and
use
that
for
something
else?
The
sewers
we.
W
Have
both
a
street
and
a
water
main
so
again,
water,
director,
Bob
Yale,
is
here
but
there's
twenty
five
thousand
dollars
also
allotted
for
the
water
main
oversizing,
don't
lose
sight
of
that,
but
the
street
over
sizing
I'm
Kickapoo
Creek
Road,
which
is
the
road
that
we're
talking
about.
If
you
look
at
overall
grid
networks
for
this
community,
we've
talked
about
this
from
a
Hershey
Road
perspective.
You
know,
whenever
you
have
those
you
have.
W
You
typically
try
to
have
those
on
every
half
mile,
so
you
have
arterioles
or
collectors
you
space
them
out
on
more
of
a
grid
pattern
to
be
able
to
move
traffic.
That's
why
it
was
there.
But
if,
as
a
city,
we
choose
to
say
this
isn't
important
to
us,
that's
what
we
can
make.
You
know
policy
level
decisions
like
that
from
a
transportation
perspective,
I
would
say
that
the
city
really
fell
short
from
an
east-west
perspective.
Fifty
years
ago
there
was
a
1960s
transportation
plan
that
said
a
lot
of
our
east-west
roads.
W
You
know
the
we
drop
the
ball,
we
didn't.
We
didn't
really
accommodate
a
lot
of
east-west
flow
in
this
community.
That's
affected
us
as
a
community
that,
if
that's
affected
our
ability
to
to
move
traffic,
you
know
Oakland
Avenue
is
is
very
good.
We
don't
have
very
good,
east-west
movement
from
if
you
look
at
it,
we
so
the
Kickapoo
Creek
Road
is
the
example
that
we
would
focus
on
to
say.
We
really
need
to
take
a
good
hard
look
at
that.
If
we,
if
we
don't
look
at
how
to
convey
traffic
long
term,
okay
got.
R
Thank
you
at
what
I
like
to
see
is
what
would
happen.
Let's
say
five
six
years
and
I
want
to
see
some
numbers.
You
know
what
does
that
three
thousand
dollars
become.
If
we
have
to
do
the
over
sizing,
then
dig
it
up
and
because
I
haven't
seen
numbers
when
it
comes
to
that
you
know,
inflation
cost
of
materials
at
least
I
would
help
me
make
a
better.
This.
W
I
could
throw
a
dart
at
a
dartboard
but
past
that
I
mean
if
it's
let's
say,
40
years
down
the
road
very
hard
to
project
in
a
backyard
Creek
restoration,
what
the
cost
would
be,
but
it
you
know
we
you've
all
seen
that
whenever
you
have
to
maintain
sewers
in
have
to
come
back
in
and
dig
them
up,
it's
just
not
easy.
Let's
just
that
doesn't
mean
it's
real,
there's,
not
better
choices.
It
is
a
value
as
alderman
black
pointed
out.
It's
a
it's
a
value
judgment
by
the
council,
but
it
is
it's
not
easy.
Q
Alleman,
the
sages
thing,
Thank,
You,
mayor
and
I'll-
be
brief
and
I
thought
and
both
was
going
to
ask
this
Jim
and
I
and
I
always
hate
to
put
numbers
here
in.
This
is
not
meant
to
put
you
on
the
spot,
but
what
is
it?
What
is
an
approximate
cost
per
lineal
foot
of
relining
when
we
rely
on
sewers?
In
other
words,
because
where
I'm
going
with
this
is
how
many
feet
of
sewer
does
$300,000
reline
give.
W
Me
about
30
seconds
and
I
could
go
back
and
get
that
and
come
back
up,
but
I
don't
think
I
have
30
seconds,
but
I'll
be
glad
to
email,
something
out
to
the
council.
I
want
to
make
sure
I
get
you
an
accurate
number.
We
just
got
done
with
some
some
work
on
that.
So
we
have
some
pretty
good
numbers.
I
could
get
to
you
so
so.
Q
Again,
just
so,
if
you're
going
to
do
that,
then
I'd
be
interested
like
and
how
many
lineal
feet
in
a
block.
Are
we
talking
about
absolutely?
We
said
six
six
blocks
of
resurfacing,
how
many
blocks
of
realigning
again
just
for
some
context.
I
think
at
least
would
be
helpful
for
me,
Thank
You
mayor.
Thank
you.
P
Instead
of
mayor,
if
I
could
I'd
like
to
ask
Jim
to
come
back
or
to
provide
separately
to
the
council,
some
information
to,
if
you
notice
and
Tom
even
mentioned,
there's
a
very
unusual
formula
being
used
here
for
upsizing
such
as
the
sanitary
sewer
line.
I've,
never
seen
this
in
any
other
city.
I've
worked
in,
but
as
you
notice
here,
the
cost-sharing
formula
puts
a
much
heavier
burden
on
the
city,
because
it's
based
on
more
percentage
of
flow
I've
never
seen
that.
But
the
reason
I
bring
that
up
is
I.
P
Think
what
Jim
could
do
is
take
that
same
kind
of
scenario:
eight-inch
versus
12,
a
12
inch
and
what
is
more,
the
standard
formula
that
is
determine
what
the
cost
is
just
to
build
the
8
inch
and
the
cost
of
the
pipe
and
everything
but
then
to
determine
if
we
were
to
just
have
them
install
a
12
inch
pipe.
What
does
that
cost
differential,
the
pipe
cost,
and
then
a
reasonable
portion
of
the
I
think?
Well,
we
might
be
finding.
P
Is
that
cos
differential
is
a
significant
different
figure
than
what
we're
looking
at
here-
maybe
maybe
not
but
I
I.
Think
if
you
could
at
least
do
that
it
is
irregardless
of
whether
it's
this
or
anything
else,
I
think
that
is
kind
of
casting
a
real
shock
factor
over
some
of
these
cost
figures,
because
of
how
the
the
formula
was
negotiated
back
ten
years
ago.
So
it
would
be
I
think
it,
for
everyone's
benefit
actually
just
be
helpful
to
see
the
difference
in
using
this
other
more
traditional
formula.
Okay,.
A
Thank
you
very
much
so
at
this
point,
do
the
staff
needs
direction.
Is
there
generally,
so
we're
not
overtly
voting,
but
is
there
general
agreement,
or
even
in
majority
agreement
on
the
council,
that
we
make
a
budgetary
amendment
change
in
whether
it's
realigning
sewers?
You
know
we
can
get
some
of
that
information
that
that's
policy
decision
that
we
can
make
it
a
later
point.
A
T
I,
like
some
information
on
this
realignment,
of
course,
that
see
a
manager
discussed
sure.
T
M
M
Q
A
Okay,
so
I
think
you
have
a
it's
clear
where
the
majority
is
so
I
think
it's
safe
to
go
ahead
and
draft
something,
and
but
but
also
more
information
that
people
like
and
obviously
we
can
circle
back.
The
main
on.
Thank
you
for
reaching
out
Diana
as
a
older
woman
to
the
the
Grove
homeowners
association.
Okay,
at
this
point,
let's
move
on
and
we
have
discussion
of
Metro
net
high-speed
Internet
in
the
city
and
all
the
fun
things
that
are
happening.
L
Thank
you
very
much
mayor
members
of
the
City
Council
I,
wanted
to
take
the
opportunity
today
to
update
you
on
the
status
of
the
current
Metro
net
desire
to
provide
the
high-speed
Internet
to
the
city,
mostly
to
the
western
part
of
the
city.
Staff
has
been
working
on
this
now
for
about
six
months
and
I.
Think
we
have
all
of
the
information
together
before
I
proceed,
though
I
would
like
to
introduce
three
people
that
are
here.
They
aren't
going
to
give
a
presentation,
but
they'll
be
available
to
answer
our
questions
for
you.
L
First
of
all,
we
have
Marty
Behrens
the
division,
three
supervising
engineer
from
Ameren.
If
you'd
stand
up,
please,
and
then
we
have
Kathy
sheller,
the
director
of
business
development
from
Metro
net
and
Dave
Ketterer
here
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
may
have.
First
of
all,
one
of
the
reasons
we
wanted
to
bring
this
to
you
for
discussions
is
to
identify
the
nature
of
the
problem
to
you
here,
and
that
is
that
Metro
Net
would
like
to
provide
high-speed
Internet
to
the
city
in
much
of
the
city,
mostly
the
eastern
part
of
the
city.
L
They
can
underground.
Now,
because
we
provided
for
that
in
the
western
part
of
the
city,
however,
undergrounding
would
be
prohibitive
and
it
requires
putting
in
new
poles.
Our
pole
ordinance
says
that
what
we
should
do
is
they
use
joint
poles
wherever
we
can
and
Metro
net
would
like
to
use
the
Ameren
poles
exist
in
much
of
the
city
where
they
would
like
to
provide
this
service.
L
L
Here's
another
example-
and
this
is
an
alley
now-
and
this
is
a
public
alley
north
of
a
Taylor
Street,
and
what
you
can
see
here
is
that
the
circles
that
have
the
solid
colors
in
them
would
be
new
polls
that
would
have
to
be
put
up
between
the
existing
polls
and
see
what
that
means.
Is
we
about
double
the
polls
in
some
of
these
areas?
I
want
to
show
you
a
picture
of.
What
that
looks
like
now
here
is
here
is
a
picture
of
an
alley
on
I'm
losing
the
audience
here.
L
L
B
L
L
I,
the
reason
is
that
it
would
be
cost
prohibitive
when,
in
the
east
side
we
were
beginning
to
put
the
neighborhood's
in,
we
required
undergrounding,
so
the
land
was
provided
for
it
in
the
west
side
of
town.
Those
provisions
were
not
there,
so
we
have
buried
water
lines
and
sewer
lines
and
other
internet
service,
so
it'd
be
very
difficult
to
dig
through
there
and
get
around
all
of
those,
and
it
would
be
cost
prohibitive
for
them
to
provide
the
service
in
those
areas.
L
The
as
an
example,
the
cost
of
putting
up
new
poles
is
eight
or
nine
hundred
dollars.
A
pole
to
redo
the
poles
that
they've
got
on
there
with
the
Ameren.
Poles
might
be
twelve
to
fifteen
thousand
dollars
a
pole
and
it
would
be
cost
prohibitive
for
them
to
dig
so
their
only
option
to
provide
the
services
to
put
the
new
poles
in.
M
Net
and-
and
we
really
appreciate
that
I
I-
think
it's
unfortunate-
that
we
have
to
add
these
poles,
even
though
they
are
likely
to
be
temporary
but
honestly
for
the
greater
good
and
for
what
we
want
to
see
this
community
become
technologically
economically
I.
This
to
me
is
we
need
to
do
this,
so
when
that's
on
my
simple
declaration-
okay,
ultimen.
U
With
the
use
of
the
cost
prohibitive
with
the
undergrounding
of
it
I
do
you
mean
because
we
don't
own
easements
or
we
don't
know
where
the
easements
are
I
mean
we're.
You
know,
because
we've
got
a
well.
A
plethora
of
poles
is,
but
those
poles
right
now
have
Comcast's
on
them.
They
have
frontier
telephone
lines
on
them
and,
of
course,
we
have
Ameren
on
them,
but
I
mean.
Why
are
you
know?
How
do
we
put
together
policy
or
is
the
future
policy?
We
could
look
at
that
says.
U
L
I
think
there
are
two
questions
here
and
that's
why
I've
got
the
experts
here
and
I'm
going
to
ask
Marty
Behrens
to
address
the
issue
about
putting
lines
up
on
their
poles?
You
said
that
they
have
frontier
and
other
lines
on
there,
and
that
has
been
a
question
about
not
being
why
they
couldn't
put
more
lines
on
that
I'm.
Going
to
ask
you
if
you'd
address
that,
for
you
welcome
Marty
good.
X
Evening,
good,
to
see
you
a
couple
of
things,
what
happens
when
you
see
a
picture
of
it
is
is
what
have
some
older
plan
in
the
downtown
areas
and
in
in
absence
of
Metro
net
or
really
any
other
pole
attachment
company?
Our
plan
is
perfectly
good
and
used
useful.
Our
life
of
poles
is
at
least
thirty
seven
years
and
can
be
out
to
fifty
or
sixty,
and
so
what
we
do
is
part
of
the
agreement
with
all
of
the
the
attachment
companies
is,
as
we
say,
hey
we're
willing
to
do
the
work.
X
Stepping
aside
and
maybe
kind
of
talking
on,
Metro
Nets
behalf
I
did
a
little
bit
of
a
review
of
the
three
areas
that
they
looked
at
and
combination
of
things
occur
in
the
alley
you
look
at.
We
have
several
different
alleys
where
currently
we
have
frontier
on
one
side
and
we
have
Ameren
on
the
other
side,
for
whatever
reason
we
couldn't
come
to
agreement
on
co-locating
facilities
on
the
pole
in.
Hence
that's
why
the
city
developed
kind
of
a
guidance
or
ordinance
guidance
for
the
utilities
into
it.
X
Second
thing
I'll,
maybe
address,
is
step
outside
and
talk
about
easements
when
I
came
into
the
area
in
the
mid-90s,
the
easements
on
the
underground
were
inadequate
for
spacing.
The
city
has
a
requirement
within
their
ordinance
to
have
five
foot
space
through
many
underground
pipe
they
have,
and
so
what
that
meant
was
is
for
the
utilities
going
underground.
X
We
did
not
have
adequate
space
in
the
picture
above
basically,
the
only
easement
that's
really
defined
is
is
the
width
of
the
alley,
so
there's
no
additional
easement
and
for
either
whether
it's
Ameren
or
for
metro
net
to
go
out
naturally
negotiate
those
easements
with
several
thousand
property
owners
and
the
west
side
doesn't
really
become
feasible
for
them
to
underground
and
I.
Think
I'm,
probably
stating
that
correctly
correct.
So
man.
U
X
Again,
they're
only
designing
for
a
lightweight
fiber
optic
cable,
where,
when
we
do
a
design
generally,
our
standard
currently
is
based
on
regulations
that
apply
from
the
Department
of
Justice,
which
means
avian
standards
or
whether
it's
from
the
National
Electric
Safety
Code,
in
the
weight
of
the
transformers
weight
of
all
the
wires
is
we're
looking
at
a
significant
taller
of
pole,
which
would
be
a
forty
forty
five
foot
pole.
Some
of
the
polls
you're
seeing
it
in
the
pictures
are
only
thirty
five
to
most
forty
foot,
and
so
what
happens?
X
U
X
Other
thing,
I
guess
to
answer
your
question,
maybe
explain
a
little
bit
longer
by
the
time
we
look
at
replacing
a
pole.
We
have
significant
hardware
on
there
safety
wise.
We
have
to
have
an
observer
at
the
ground
because
in
many
cases
we're
dealing
with
12,000
volts
at
the
top
of
the
pole,
where
Metro
net
can
get
by
with
the
single
service
TAC,
either
that
on
a
ladder
truck
to
attach
that
that
conductor,
okay.
U
Thank
you
very
much.
It
Steve
for
clarification.
I
was
actually
talking
more
about
the
easements
to
go
back
and
say:
well,
how
does
the
city?
What
what
do
we
do
from
a
long-term?
You
know?
Maybe
it's
a
35
or
50
year
plan
to
say
at
some
point
in
the
future.
We
would
like
all
these
buried
and,
and
how
do
we
start
doing?
Is
there
anything?
U
I
will
say
that
I
put
out
a
kind
of
a
question
out
to
a
lot
of
the
residents
who
I
deal
with
on
a
regular
basis
and
they're,
very
supportive
of
if
it
takes
extra
poles
right
now
to
get
this
done,
then
that's
put
in
extra
bowls
because
they
want
competition
which
will
drive
additional
choices
and
they
want
options,
and-
and
so
everybody
that
I
heard
from
is
very
supportive
of
if
more
poles
is
what
it
takes.
Then
what's
two
more
poles.
Thank.
L
You
thank
you
and
your
question
about
the
easements
and
ultimately
of
burying
these
is
a
long-term
question.
Has
a
lot
to
do
with
the
revitalization
of
West,
Bloomington
and
I.
Don't
have
an
answer
for
that
now,
but
I
will
certainly
work
on
that.
You
also
asked
the
question
about
why
it
might
be
cost
prohibitive
to
go
underground.
It
might
be
worth
for
just
a
moment
asking
Metro
net
to
discuss
the
undergrounding
option.
Could
you
talk
to
that
for
just
a
moment.
H
Thank
you.
My
name
is
Dave
Kaiser
for
the
record
ke-eys
CR,
one
of
our
past
colleagues
passed
away.
His
last
name
was
Ketterer,
those
and
typo
in
there,
so
basically
going
for
the
underground
and
overhead
when
we
do
cost
analysis,
we
average
6500
hours
per
pole
for
basic
cost
analysis
on
a
pole,
but
based
on
the
size
and
what's
on
the
pole,
they
can
be
10
12,
even
15
or
$20,000,
depending
on
the
type
of
pole.
H
So
when
you
eat,
when
we
dip
underground
someone
mention
in
other
areas,
we
can
take
that
this
model
here
and
dip
underground
and
miss
a
pole.
So
when
you
compare
a
pole,
replacement
a
6500
to
$10
a
foot
for
underground,
so
where
ever
than
$10
a
foot
for
the
installation
between
the
two
for
this
poles,
if
we
miss
one,
so
if
it's
100
foot
span,
we
got
to
put
in
200
so
on
the
Underground
cost
compared
to
pole,
that's
cheap,
cheaper
cost
us
less.
H
But
when
we
turn
around
and
do
it
the
other
way
and
go
overhead,
it's
only
think
we're
a
doubt
$4.95
for
overhead
strand.
So
adding
the
new
polls
allow
us
to
install
the
network
of
the
much
lesser
cost
also
we
can
also
there's
a
we
can
go
around
the
damage
poll
because
a
load
capacity
and
install
our
own
poll,
so
we
have
a
heavier
strand
and
a
drop.
It's
a
steel
and
a
fiber,
but
we
can
drop
to
the
poll
with
that
little
tiny
wire.
T
Y
T
Z
T
H
That
goes
back
to
the
cost
of
being
pushed
back
on
hammering
or
Metron
it
from
Ameren
for
the
cost
replacement.
Some
of
the
polls
are
pre-existing
damages.
Some
of
them
are
already
outdated.
Some
of
them
are
damaged
as
being
the
called
P
ones
and
P
to
s
for
priority
for
changing
replacement.
So
some
of
those
are
being
put
back
on
us
because
we
fall
in
a
different
time
frame.
G
Kathy
she'll
are
on
the
business
development
in
external
affairs
and,
quite
frankly,
alderman
bright.
We
have
been
working
on
a
solution
with
Ameren
the
city
for
quite
some
time.
The
only
plausible
solution
for
this
part
of
the
city
for
us
to
get
everybody
in
an
expert
you
know
expedite
the
deployment
is
to
come
up
with
this
mechanism
at
this
time.
So
it's
something
that
it
is
literally
been
here
doing
this
for
six
months.
G
Really,
the
only
solution
for
us
to
do
this
at
the
time
I
will
state
that
Metro
Net
wants
to
be
a
good
citizen
in
Bloomington,
and
we've
worked
really
hard
to
do
that.
Just
from
a
cultural
standpoint,
we're
looking
forward
to
coming
here
and
deploying
we're
looking
forward
to
giving
you
world
class
infrastructure
that
will
assist,
and
at
this
point
in
time,
for
the
expedition
of
this
deployment.
This
was
the
best
solution.
After
six
months
of
work,.
L
A
L
You
very
much
and
I
think
what
will
happen
is
we'll
begin
to
proceed
on
doing
that,
but
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
the
City
Council
and
the
city
knew
that
that
new
service
could
be
put
it
out
there,
but
we
want
to
understand
them.
Everybody
understand
what
the
implication
would
be
for
neighborhoods.
Thank
you.
A
E
P
P
Tonight
we
just
want
to
talk
for
a
few
minutes
on
our
process
going
forward
to
ultimately
result
in
the
the
goal
line
is
going
to
be
the
adoption
of
this
five-year
capital
improvement
plan
and,
as
this
particular
I
think
it's
called
word
cloud
shows.
There
is
a
lot
of
high
priority
major
projects,
capital
projects
that
are
all
competing
for
a
very
small
finite
source
of
revenue,
and
this
we
can
even
continue
to
expand
this.
P
We
don't
look
at
anything
in
a
vacuum
that,
if,
if
it's
underground
utilities,
if
it's
street
resurfacing
fire
station,
ready,
Asian
economic
development
and
assisting
with
that
sidewalks,
you
know
outdoor
pools,
etc,
etc.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
you
have
that
complete
picture,
including
what
are
going
to
simply
some
of
the
financial
demands
in
the
future
that
we
may
have
no
choice
but
to
as
it
in
the
case
of
some
of
these
facilities,
either
shut
the
facility
down
or
because
we
just
don't
have
the
money.
P
The
there
is
a
lot
of
I
think
significant
accomplishment.
As
you
know
this
time
last
year
or
I,
think
it
was
more
into
the
early
fall.
We
began
to
make
presentations
to
you.
That
was
because
we
had
brought
forth
and
had
the
council
approve
a
number
of
capital
master
plans,
keep
in
mind,
there's
still
a
few
to
bring
to
you
for
final
approval.
There's
the
downtown
streetscape
plan.
There's
also
going
to
be
the
bricks
master
plan.
P
P
However,
even
with
you
know
where
we've
gone
today,
I
did
want
to
give
you
just
at
this
point
in
time
an
overview
of
what
is
our
next
steps,
as
patty
is
going
to
share
with
you.
We
do
feel
that
one
critic,
a
couple
of
critical
things
we
need
council
input
on
prior
to
any
final
vote
on
the
CIP,
is
one
to
consider
a
increase
in
our
sanitary
sewer
fees
and
our
stormwater
fees.
Why
is
that
important?
P
We
are
seriously
under
capitalized
as
far
as
revenue
to
help
move
ahead
with
any
signal,
African
future
sanitary
sewer
or
stormwater
projects.
In
fact,
you
might
recall,
as
you
look
at
the
fiscal
year,
2018
project
I
think
it
was
stormwater
fun
where
there
was
just
a
one
project
and
I
think
it
was
well
under
1/2
million
dollars.
That's
all
we
could
afford
right
now
on
a
pay-as-you-go
basis,
sanitary
sewer,
while
maybe
in
a
little
better
situation.
P
It's
it's
also
in
desperate
need
of
consideration
at
lease
of
more
resources.
If,
if
we
want
to
be
more
proactive
and
aggressive
in
doing
more,
rather
than
less
in
the
way
of
improvements
the
so
we
have
those
two
fees,
we
also
want
to
bring
back
to
you,
probably
in
this
order.
After
the
fees,
a
a
proposed
a
bond
to
be
issued
to
address
some
significant,
high-priority
needs,
such
as
street
resurfacing,
which
could
include
not
only
street
resurfacing,
but
some
underground
utilities
that
would
go
along
with
those
street
resurfacing
needs.
P
This
could
be
in
the
ten
twenty
million
dollars
plus
or
minus.
We
do
believe
that
that
that
should
be
something
to
consider,
especially
to
move
some
of
these
infrastructure
projects
along.
That
would
be
another
way
to
to
look
at
issuing
debt
to
help
provide
for
some
needed
revenue
sources
in
the
in
the
next
few
years.
With
those
kind
of
three
items,
then
we
believe
that
by
probably
early
fall,
the
council
would
be
in
a
great
position,
then,
to
adopt
a
balanced
five-year
capital
improvement
plan
that
would
incorporate
some
needed
answers
to
those
three
issues.
Z
Well,
I'm
always
happy
to
come
and
talk
about
budgets,
as
you
know,
and
the
capital
improvement
plan
we're
making
a
lot
of
strides
in
the
right
direction.
Where
we
are,
we
are
measuring
our
outputs.
We
are
coming
up
with
master
plan
to
them.
We
have
some
funding
plans
already
some
rate
studies
prepared
when
I
started
here
in
2012,
not
sure
we
had
any
of
that.
Z
So
we're
really
beginning
to
address
our
long-term
liabilities
on
many
fronts,
but
we
have
got
so
much
work
to
do
and
I
know
you
guys
are
all
aware
of
that
and
I'm
not
going
to
beat
it
to
death.
But
you
know
we
are.
We
were
missed.
If
we
didn't
let
you
know,
you
know
that
we
we
have
to
start
addressing
the
sewer
and
storm.
They
do
not
have
money
to
even
do
their
annual
capital
maintenance.
Jim
was
talking
about
the
sewer
lining
program.
Z
We
should
be
funding
about
two
million
dollars
a
year,
I
think
in
sewer
lining
of
preventive
maintenance
around
the
city.
We've
got
multiple
stormwater
projects
from
the
farm
bureau,
detention,
many
many
others,
and
we
have
a
great
plan
for
you
guys
to
address
those
issues
and
really
be
very
successful
at
that
not
only
creating
some
reserves
in
those
same
funds,
creating
some
sustainability,
also
being
able
to
ultimately
pay
some
cash
for
capital
rather
than
rolling
debt
service.
Z
And
ultimately,
that's
where
you
really
want
your
general
fund
to
be
as
well
is
that
you
know
were
able
to
pay
some
cash
for
capital
that
we're
able
to
address
many
of
the
things
in
this
capital
plan
that
don't
necessarily
have
an
easily
identifiable
source
like
sewer,
would
be
sewer
rates.
You
know
water
would
be
water
rates,
but
facilities
and
many
of
the
things
that
are
on
you
know
this
I'd
like
to
call
it
a
migraine.
Z
You
know
we've
got
to
get
creative
and
there's
a
lot
of
work.
To
do
to
do
that.
You
know
we
still
need
you
know
more
Street,
resourcing
new
street
construction
safety
at
many
of
our
intersections
is
just
so
many
things,
but
again
they
didn't
happen
overnight.
We
have
a
lot
of
deferred
maintenance
and
things
like
that,
but
and
we
can't
fix
it
overnight,
we
do
need
to
pace
ourselves
and
that's
really
important.
Z
Even
with
you
know,
economic
developments
up
here,
which
is
great
because
building
our
tax
base
same
thing,
I
like
to
think
about
pace
there,
so
that
we
can
afford
to
move
all
things
ahead
incrementally
and
that
we
cannot,
you
know,
have,
and
we
can
have
an
intergenerational
tax
parity.
So,
having
said
that,
this
is
just
a
plan
we're
going
to
be
dropping
in
the
updated
numbers,
because
this
is
from
fiscal
year.
17
now
we're
dropping
in
the
eighteen
five-year
capital
requests
and
things
from
the
department's.
Z
But
you
know
we
have
to
also
keep
in
mind
our
debt
ratios
and
comparables
to
peers
when
it
comes
to
utility
debt
like
water,
sewer
and
storm.
If
you
have
a
dedicated
revenue
to
those
capital
improvement
plans,
the
credit
rating
agencies
almost
consider
that
a
bit
of
a
wash
it
does
factor
into
your
debt
ratios.
Initially
excuse
me,
but
after
a
couple
of
years
they
come
off
because
they
can
see
that
dedicated
revenue
coming,
and
they
want
to
make
sure
that
you
have
good.
If.
A
Z
In
fact,
the
plan
that
we
had
gone
over
briefly-
it
was
brief
presentation
but
I
think
it's
almost
a
20-year
plan
for
shirin
stormwater.
We
have
rates
mapped
out
for
over
10
years.
That
could
be
done
automatically
and
you
would
have
yes
revolving
debt
to
adjust
your
needs
as
well
as
cash
reserves
for
your
needs,
as
well
as
the
15%
fund.
Z
Balance
is
what
you
need
in
those
funds
minimally,
but
the
benefit
to
doing
beautilities,
debt
or
utility
capital
is
that
over
time
they
are
not
included
in
your
debt
ratios,
because
it's
dedicated
revenue
for
a
critical
need,
and
so
it's
it
there
they're
in
there.
But
it's
not
like
if
we
went
out
and
JH
is
bad
example
here,
but
you
know
spent
200
million
dollars
on
a
movie
theater
that
that
would
not
be
necessarily.
You
know
something
that
we
could.
They
could
make
that
argument
at
all
times.
Z
We
want
to
really
keep
our
credit
rating,
which
is
why
we
also
talked
about
the
operating
fund,
the
general
fund.
Right
now
we
don't
pay
me
cash
for
capital
of
the
general
fund
this
year.
As
you
guys
know,
we
we
always
have
the
road
which
is
a
dedicated
of
servicing
revenue,
which
is
mainly
the
only
non
kind
of
enterprise
fund
capital
we
have
going
forward,
but
we
didn't
have
that
before
so
again.
We're
doing
we've
made
a
lot
of
strides
and
I.
Z
Y
Z
Can
definitely
get
there.
We
can
have
a
great
plan
and
we'd
love
to
go
into
more
detail
with
you,
small
groups,
large
groups
or
whatever
it
may
be,
to
really
get
into
that
foreign
stormwater,
but
keep
in
mind
that
we
have
to
think
about
these
things,
not
in
a
silo,
but
also
in
the
context
of
the
xix
budget.
A
Y
A
Q
Of
them
say
it's
good,
quick
question
since
we're
I'm,
not
that
I'm
tracking,
but
we're
34
minutes
long,
I
think
here
in
our
meeting
time,
but
I
want
to
look
at
page
two,
which
is
very
quickly
David
towards
the
top
of
that
page.
There.
There
are
a
couple
different
sections:
one
called
qualifying
criteria,
the
other
one
called
project
priorities
and
and
and
I
appreciate
very
much.
Q
The
fact
that
the
leading
priority
I'm,
assuming
these
are
in
kind
of
a
hierarchy
they're
presented
so
that,
for
instance,
the
master
plans
will
be
the
the
most
or
considered
may
be
the
highest
authoritative
source
for
stuff
that
we're
going
to
look
at
from
a
prioritization
perspective
and
I'm.
Okay
with
that
I'm
interested
in
the
section
up,
above
that
it
says,
qualifying
criteria
and
I'm
looking
at
the
ones
that
are
there
and
in,
for
instance,
the
third
and
fourth
bullet
points
maintain
existing
assets
or
improve
operations,
which
is
more.
We
just
asked.
P
B
Q
Sorry
I'm
in
the
readers
guide,
I
didn't
know
there
were
multiple
page
to
pick
up
on
that.
So
let
me
back
up
again
so
so
David
those
two
sections
qualifying
criteria
and
project
priorities
and
I
I'm,
making
the
assumption-
and
this
will
be-
these
will
be
yes
or
no
questions
that
that,
for
instance,
two
master
plans
and
project
pirate
priorities
is,
is
meant
to.
Q
P
Q
Absolutely
and
so
yeah.
Thank
you.
That's
a
nice
segue
where
I
was
going
through,
so
the
the
section
up
above
it
says,
qualifying
criteria,
and
particularly
I
mean
there
are
four
bullet
points
listed
there
and
I'm
looking
just
kind
of
more
specifically
at
bullet
points,
three
and
four
maintain
existing
assets
or
improve
operations,
kind
of
a
maintain.
What
we
have
right,
verses,
or
at
least
that's
the
way
I-
would
interpret
it
versus
improve
revenue
potential
which
is
kind
of
building
for
the
future.
That
kind
of
thing
just
does
do
you.
Q
Would
it
be
beneficial
to
staff?
If
the
council
provided
a
little
bit
more
clarity
as
to
a
priority
from
a
you
know,
maintain
what
we
have
versus
build
building
new,
or
does
this
give
you
the
direction?
Does
this
give
staff
this
sufficient
direction?
They
need
to
begin
to
continue
those
those
priority.
Conversations
at
the
staff
level,
I
believe.
P
It
does
okay
I.
Yes
at
this
point
in
time,
because
keep
in
mind
you
know
I
think
when
a
key
word
there
is
health
and
safety
there's
some
new
projects
that
really
have
a
safety
component
to
them
a
public
safety
component.
So
you
know
that
that's
but
yes,
I,
think
we're
following
that,
and-
and
you
know,
as
we
bring
the
final
recommendation,
it'll
probably
have
some
additional
tweaking
based
on
this
criteria
as
well.
Since.
Q
So,
maybe
just
if
we
want
to
communicate
a
hierarchy
there
mountain
that
we
may
be
more
clearly
indicate
that
there
because
I'm
like
you
when
I
first
read
it
I
thought.
Health
and
safety
would
probably
lead
that
that
section,
as
opposed
to
some
other
kind
of
generic
statement
about
Council,
adopted
plans
and
policies
that,
if
there's
an
opportunity,
just
didn't,
perhaps
rework
that
a
little
bit
that
that
that
might
be
helpful.
Okay,.
R
Z
My
rule
of
thumb,
a
great
financial
discipline,
is
you
you?
If
you
issue
debt,
you
have
a
revenue
to
pay
for
it,
so
you
dedicate
your
revenue
to
pay
for
it
and
yes,
we're
going
to
have
some
savings
in
our
debt
service.
So
there's
you
know
kind
of
that
footprint
that
was
attached
in
the
back
here.
So
let's
say
next
year's
budget
debt
service
goes
down
by
a
million
dollars,
but
yet
you
keep
it
at
say
it's
ten
million.
Z
Now
you
can
wrap
and
work
with
debt
so
that
you're,
always
at
that
same
amount
every
year,
without
growing
it.
When
you
don't
have
a
dedicated
funding
source.
If
we're
talking
about
utilities,
it
gets
really
complicated,
but
for
sure
you,
with
revenue,
matching
and
accounting
standards
and
credit
rating,
a
diffuser
going
to
wonder
why
we
don't
want
to
increase
it
like
a
sewer
rate
for
a
sewer
project.
Z
You
know
I
mean,
and
we
can
do
that-
it's
our
prerogative,
but
over
time
you
know
and
I'd
love
to
you
know
kind
of
sit
down
with
you
and
check
all
those
revenues
put
him
off.
But
essentially,
if
we're
going
to
take
on
debt,
we
can
either
use
our
savings.
We
can
use
a
dedicated
revenue
or
you
could
actually
reduce
your
budget
to
pay
for
it,
but
it's
got
to
be
recurring
whatever.
It
is
because
over
time
you
can't
just
make
a
one-time.
Z
A
Scheduled
some
of
those
and
begin
to
walk
through
for
this.
Actually
they
can
be
three
on
ones
because
I
don't
I
mean,
and
then
you
can
only
do
three
I
don't
have
to
be
there.
We
can
talk
and
our
regular
meetings.
So
maybe
that
but
be
easier
on
you
and
David
three
meetings,
yeah,
three,
all
the
people,
yeah,
don't
worry!
So
that's.