City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 5 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council Transportation Committee, August 5, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=7409

A

Okay, so this is the transportation committee.

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Wednesday august 5th we have two items on the agenda.

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Tonight, the first one- this is our second time.

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Discussing it is ordinance 2012, which is a relatively routine amendments to title.

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15 of the bloomington municipal code, so.

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Traffic vehicles and traffic- and this includes.

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Some items like loading zones, no parking zones, motorcycle parking, adding a.

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Temporary visitor permit, among other things,.

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Second, ordinance is 20-14, and this is again to amend title 15.

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Of the bloomington municipal code and is to reflect.

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A proposed redesign of 7th street, known as the 7 line.

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So for both ordinances tonight we'll hear.

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From staff come to council for questions, go to the public for comment.

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And then back to council for a discussion and then potentially.

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Taking a poll on whether we want to recommend these ordinances.

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To council next week or if we need any any further debate, at least on the seven.

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Line ordinance um well, I think we also might have some.

A

Amendments to introduce tonight we'll just we'll see what happens right. I might introduce an amendment about motorcycle parking.

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um And we can go from there: okay, deep council member, madam chair yeah,.

B

Are we going to have separate votes on each uh ordinance.

B

Yeah, yes, yes, so first we'll do ordinance. 2012.

A

And then we'll do 2014.. Thank you. Okay! No problem, okay! So let's begin.

A

Discussing ordinance, 2012 so amending title 15 of the code, the equivalent.

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Traffic we heard uh from the staff.

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Last week- and I think this week, let me see: okay, yes, so this week, we've.

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Got uh two staff members present I think, to weigh in on this.

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So if we we've got, mr, let me see where I've got my.

A

Guys, I'm sorry amir farci and long range planner and the neil.

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Copper senior project engineer so.

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I guess where we left off, we had some updates to this.

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And I'm thinking would it make sense to have staff go through these updates.

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And small edits and changes, and we can ask questions again.

A

Does that sound good, okay, just a little overview again.

A

Okay, so, um mr farshi, do you want to go ahead and talk.

A

About the updates over the past week, so uh hello, this is amir.

C

Long range planner, let me share my screen with you. If that is okay,.

C

Would you see my screen.

C

Could you see my screen just to make sure yeah.

D

Yep we see it, we see it okay, great. uh So as a reminder, uh staff presented the.

C

Title 15 ordinance uh in the transportation committee.

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Meeting two weeks ago, I think, on july, 22.

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2020, uh the ordinance uh proposes uh various amendments to title 15.

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Of the bloomington municipal court entitled.

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Vehicles and traffic about adding removing.

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And changing some items regarding no parking zones.

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Loading zones, parking restrictions for motorcycles and mopeds garage.

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Parking reserve for electric vehicles a.

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Temporary visitor parking permit program, limited parking zone, speed limits.

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Intersection one layer, streets and a changing street name. The details.

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And maps are included in the account packets.

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And for tonight, uh staff prepared for amendments to ordinance at 20-12.

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To correct errors uh contained in the original.

C

Legislation, uh let me talk about all amendments, uh so the.

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Amendment one which is submitted by a staff and is in.

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Search of a sponsor is related uh to the section two of the.

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Ordinance uh section two is about adding some.

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Items to a schedule m entitled uh no parking zone, uh the.

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Proposed amendment and makes two technical corrections by.

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Removing two blocks from section two uh that were included.

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By mistake uh as follows, so the first collection is.

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Removing both sides of 18th street from grant.

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Estudies to lincoln street, uh this is because.

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Parking was added on this estuary, and the code already defines the area.

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Where there is no parking on this history, so the block needs to be removed from title 15.

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The second collection is removing the east side of washington.

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Street from 19th street to 20 ss3- and this is because this block.

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Should be moved from section 2 to section 3 of the audience.

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The second amendment.

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Amendment 2, which is submitted by a staff.

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And is in search of a sponsor is related to the section 3 of the.

C

Ordinance uh section 3 is about removing some.

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Items from a schedule and point of order, um madam chair, maybe we.

B

Should vote on each amendment separately.

A

uh Okay, how how do you normally do the title, 12 15 amendments I mean.

A

That seems like a lot of there's just so many here. Well, there's.

B

Only five, but um are there more than five.

C

Four amendments and I believe, council member rosenberger.

C

Has one amendment so six? uh It's just that. I mean at some point we're gonna.

B

Need to have a procedural vote on each amendment. I just wanted to make sure.

B

That um you know we're not sort of, I mean.

B

We're not, uh we don't have a consent agenda. That's my only concern.

E

Right: okay, okay, I can add some context: um uh planning staff prepared four.

E

Amendments that were released in the packet and were seeking council sponsors for all four of those.

E

I believe council uh committee, member piedmont smith offered to sponsor.

E

uh One of those amendments, but I believe the other three.

E

uh May still be in need of a council or a committee sponsorship.

E

um There were two additional amendments that I don't think have been.

E

um One may have been distributed in the packet addendum. I.

E

Believe committee, member rosenberger's uh amendment and.

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Amendment five, which I believe committee member volun, uh may.

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Introduce tonight uh has not yet been released so.

E

That's where we stand and it's up to the committee if they'd like to get an.

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Overview of what the universe of amendments are before.

E

Deciding whether to sponsor any of these, uh but that's.

E

uh That's why the uh the staff amendments are.

E

Some three of them at least uh don't have a sponsor yet.

B

Okay, so if we're treating this as kind of a staff presentation that I guess.

B

That's acceptable um but I'll just say now I'll be willing to sponsor the ones.

B

That aren't already thank you for starting the interruption.

A

And okay, I'm just going to ask if we need to have sponsors.

A

Do we need to do that today, or can I wait, but it's.

A

In order to have this, somebody has to move it yeah. Somebody has to.

B

To okay to to move and the amendment, so I'm happy to do this, but okay, great.

D

A

uh Council member, I I wanted to request actually that we.

F

Discuss and vote on the amendments, one by one.

F

Because I'll have forgotten what the first one is by the time we come back to.

F

It so that's why it's gonna be pretty quick.

G

Yeah yeah, okay,.

A

So why don't we go ahead and go back and let's discuss.

B

Madam chair, I will move amendment 1 to ordinance 2012.

B

F

I don't know that there's much okay, I mean we're right. Is there any discussion.

A

We can be casual here. I think.

F

It's just correcting an error, it seems like okay, although these are.

E

Minor technical changes I would suggest going to the public for.

E

For each amendment, um okay, right, I'm sorry, I'm just like.

A

Okay, this is a random. This feels more random to me tonight. Okay,.

A

um If no council discussion, I'm sorry and then.

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Council, member smith and I need to make my screen a little bigger, so I can see.

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You um there, you are okay, so I can.

A

Any discussion from council members on that.

A

No okay: okay! Let's go to the public on our first amendment,.

E

So for for any member of the public that that wants to make a comment on.

E

Amendment one you can do so by either raising your hand.

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Using the race hand, function or sending a message.

E

Through chat to, let us know that you'd like to comment.

D

Okay, no one on the no parking zones updates. Okay,.

A

Okay, so I think we can go ahead and do a do path.

A

Vote on this, do I record this or stephen: do you record this? Typically, the.

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Chair just calls on on committee members, and uh they can.

E

Indicate or no right, I guess I just mean I should.

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Be writing this down for each amendment right, uh the clerk is, is keeping a.

E

Record of the vote also here, if you need me to do.

H

It, oh okay. I just I just want to make sure.

A

I mean we, I am assuming we're sort of going to be yes for most of these, but um okay, so I'll just go ahead and.

A

Call around council member, oh, is this: okay did I say this is a do pass for.

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Amendment one okay, okay, council, member smith,.

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Yes, council member p month, note yes, council member golan, yes,.

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And I will say yes as well: okay, so now we can um that one passes for.

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Zero, let's move on to.

A

Okay, sorry, any discussion council member discussion.

A

um Let's go to amendment two: do we want to hear from staff on this.

F

Yeah, just brief council member roland. Well, I think he already presented on it.

B

And this is actually yeah. He said that.

B

The texts need to be moved from one section to another.

B

Oh, uh the previous orders struck out the one section this one just puts it in.

B

The other, so if I'm wrong about that, he can correct.

B

B

It really should have been one amendment yeah.

C

The only addition is about a grand street, uh the second.

C

Collection, which is about kuranta street from 18th history, to 19th.

C

Street to change the east side to both sides of the street.

B

Okay, thank you.

A

Okay, any other committee discussion, no amendment, two. Okay, let's go to the.

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Public see if the public would like to weigh in on amendment 2.

A

Just updating some no parking zone, anybody I can't see, because that we're.

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Doing a shared screen, just even I trust you are checking.

E

I see no requests for comments on this if.

E

Folks have a.

E

Request to make a comment on amendment 2: you can raise your hand or.

E

Type into the chat.

E

And I'm not seeing anyone jump up and down.

A

Okay, I think we're ready to consider a do pass recommendation for amendment two.

A

I will call okay council member smith.

I

I'm eating my sandwich. Yes,.

A

Council member peter ron smith: yes,.

A

Account councilman rivolin, yes and councilmember rosenberger. Also, yes,.

A

Okay onward, we go what's next everybody. I move amendment number three.

F

Wait, oh yes! um I I actually offered to sponsor this one, but you can still move.

B

It I'll second, it okay.

F

This is about the loading zones. Mr farshi, do you want to.

C

No, the amendment 3, which is submitted by a staff and is a.

C

Sponsored by council member pittsburgh smith.

C

Is related to section five of the audience.

C

uh Section five is about uh adding some items to a schedule or entitled.

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uh Entitled loading zones uh loading zones uh shall be, in effect.

C

24 hours a day, seven days a week except they're otherwise noted in a.

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Schedule or and all vehicles shall be limited.

C

To a maximum of 30 minutes use, the amendment makes three corrections.

C

To clarify the hours of uh three loading zones.

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As follows, the first collection is adding the hours.

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Of 8 a.m to 5 p.m, monday, through friday to the losing zone on 700 block.

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Of east 13th street, the second collection is.

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Adding the hours of 8 a.m to 5 p.m, monday, through friday,.

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To the loading zone on 800, block of east uh 13th street uh and the.

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Third collection is adding the hours of 8 a.m to 5 p.m. Monday, through friday,.

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The loading zone on a 1600 block of north kinser park.

A

Okay, any committee member- oh we're still going you're just scrolling down a.

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Little okay, if you have any questions, just happy to.

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Answer: okay, wonderful, any council member questions on amendment three loading zone.

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Kind of tackled this last time, I think pretty well.

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Okay, anyone gearing up from the public for public comment.

A

On this one, three, two one, it was like we're. Okay, I.

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Don't think we have any last time. Okay, I think we can consider a do pass.

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Recommendation for amendment three of ordinance, 2012.

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Council member smith, yes, council, number piedmont, smith, yes,.

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Council, member volin, yes, member rosenberger, yes, okay, this one.

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That passes as well 4-0 onward.

A

To amendment 4 use our sponsor.

B

uh I'll move it if nobody else will.

A

Okay, I think that he did I'll. Second, that.

A

B

Can we have a presentation, please sure.

C

Let me present it quickly. uh Amendment 4 is submitted by a staff.

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Is related to section 6 of the ordinance section. 6 is about adding a motorcycle.

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Parking restrictions to title 15.

C

The amendment corrects a reference to a definition between.

C

Recently adopted a unified development, ordinance or rudio.

C

As follows, the correction is about the term class 2 bicycle parking.

C

Facility shall mean a short-term parking facility.

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Intended for a relatively short duration, as defined.

C

By bmc 20.11.020 and the correction is changing the bmc.

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20.11.20 to bmc 20.07.010.

A

Okay: let's go to council number discussion on this.

A

Council member volun yeah, um I would like a little bit more.

B

Clarification on why we need this amendment, not because I.

B

Oppose it or support it, I just don't quite understand uh what is the.

B

Objective here that staff is trying to achieve.

C

You know because the recent udl unified development ordinance.

C

uh Changed uh some sections of title 15 and I think this is kind of a recent.

C

Change happens one month ago, maybe or two months ago, in the court. We realized that the reference to the loomington.

C

Municipal code needs to be corrected, based on the udo.

C

The definition of class to bicycles, just the title of the code, need to be.

C

Revised to be a correct uh section in the code.

C

So it's only the reference to the new udl.

B

Okay, so this doesn't actually materially change.

B

uh Meaning it just corrects an error. Yes, the definition of the class to.

C

Bicycle is still the same in the code.

C

The location that this section is referring to.

C

Thank you, okay. Thank you.

D

So if y'all can guide me on this as the chair, um I I have an amendment to.

A

This amendment right so I have an updated version, is.

A

That something we would discuss now so.

E

And I I think, um you're not necessarily amending this amendment. I think what.

E

You'd like to do is amend uh the same uh section of code that that.

E

Amendment uh changes, so the two amendments will need to be.

E

You know, um obviously, if amendment four is.

E

Is passed, it will need to be incorporated into this section as well.

E

So um I would wait to uh to discuss your changes after we've talked about.

E

Amendment four.

A

Okay, um they are so related. I mean, I think in my discussion.

A

Okay, well, I think I'll just talk about it a little bit in this discussion of.

A

Why I wouldn't recommend this one right and from my vote? Well, I I assume that.

E

Regardless of whether your amendment is adopted, you would want to.

E

Correct this code: citation okay, okay right! So right! It's just that.

A

One little thing: okay, yes, my amendment has that updated.

A

Code citation as well but oh I see because mine didn't because.

A

It was a little late in the day right right, okay, that email.

A

Came in during this meeting: great okay, so, okay! So this amendment is.

A

Really just switching the code citation pretty.

A

Straightforward: let's go to the public and see if anyone would like to comment.

A

On this updated code, citation amendment 4., I.

A

Didn't ask I'm sorry you guys, I didn't ask if we have any other counsel number comment. Also, no, okay. Okay! I did.

E

Get a a message that aoban binder would like to make a public comment.

E

um Although he and other members of the public should know that there is, I.

E

Believe an upcoming amendment that councilmember rosenberger.

E

May be discussing that which is in section with a little more.

E

uh Detail so, uh mr binder, you should be.

E

uh Muted and ready to comment thanks, um maybe I should just say my.

J

Public comment for after uh councilmember rosenbarker presents.

J

Her changes because it it seems to me that the matter at hand.

J

Right now is actually just pertaining to this one little bit in red.

J

Is that is that, right, okay, I'll just if it's okay, maybe you.

J

Can circle back to me yeah in a minute? Definitely, let's hang in.

A

There thank you, okay, anyone else for amendment.

A

A

Okay, I think we can recommend a do pass for this uh code update amendment four.

A

Let's go out of order this time at council, member volun.

B

A

Council, member piedmont, smith, yes, council, member smith,.

A

Yes- and I say yes as well so amendment 4, the 4-0- do pass.

A

Recommendation to go to council next week.

A

Okay: let's move to amendment five, madam chair, I'd like to move amendment.

B

D

Okay, I'm sure I'd like to move amendment five.

B

And use a second yeah. I thought I second that so we're good.

B

Do I need a second, I'm, not even sure, but okay, what is moment five? Do we have an.

F

Amendment plan, so, mr lucas, could you circulate.

E

I'm working on posting that online for the moment it may be easiest to share.

E

Your screen, I don't know if you've got it pulled up or I can share my screen.

E

And display, if you would share your screen, I don't have it on.

B

On this device, where I'm speaking, but it's going to take some explaining.

B

And I'm not sure it's obvious from just looking at the amendment.

B

So uh let me uh explain the situation so uh the immediate problem that I'm.

B

Trying to solve is that the passage of ordnance, 1811.

B

uh Created uh the parking zone in garden hill, it's known as zone six.

B

And uh zone six has been uh more successful.

B

Than uh than even I anticipated, um there are.

B

Approximately 240 spaces in zone six.

B

On on the street, that's the rough count that I have from.

B

Planning a transportation 97 permits were sold.

B

In that zone in the 2019-2020 uh fiscal year and.

B

So many streets went uh empty as a result, because this was also the.

B

First zone to be enforced at niagara on weekends, so it's quite a.

B

Bit more restrictive than previous neighborhood.

B

Zones have been, it has been, is met with the strong.

B

Approval of the neighbor association they're very happy with it, but questions have arisen among residents who are not eligible for.

B

Permits as to why, if the street is empty, they cannot even have uh visitors come.

B

And park there without threat of of a ticket um and uh so.

B

In a way, you could say that this uh ordinances.

B

Has over-regulated the zone, so one thing I'm trying to do is to.

B

Reach a closer to equilibrium with this by.

B

Opening the zone up to people who would not normally be eligible.

B

For a permit in the zone, in other words specifically.

B

People who live in multi-family housing, but recognizing that there's a limit to.

B

How much parking there ought to be available to, uh in other words, without.

B

It becoming overcrowded, like it was before ordinance.

B

1811 this amendment uh a permits.

B

uh People who live in multi-family dwelling.

B

Buildings to purchase a permit, but it also caps the number of permits.

B

At 250, but then it does something else new as an experiment for this fiscal.

B

Year, only it would allow the first 150 permits to.

B

Be sold at 46. This is a relative bargain in this area,.

B

Where the market for private parking off street.

B

Is anywhere between uh 25 and 70 a month in garages and lots.

B

um But because we don't want to incentivize people to simply try to.

B

Find the cheaper parking rather than the parking that goes with.

B

Their apartment building it proposes an experiment at the first.

B

150 permits will be sold at 46, which is the normal.

B

Rate for a neighborhood zone, the second 50, the the penultimate 50.

B

Permits will be sold at the rate for of the all zone. Permit 106 for the year.

B

And the final 50 permits will be sold at double the all zone rate of 212.

B

Dollars for the year and this provision, this entire amendment expires.

B

February of 2021., so the goal here is to experiment.

B

With market pricing in zone six so as to prevent.

B

uh Multi-Family dwellers from buying up all the permits too.

B

Quickly, um but also sort of preserving for the.

B

Intended users, the original price uh and intent, I mean again only 97.

B

Permits were sold last year, two people in single family dwellings, so.

B

This should accommodate all of them. 75 of permits are purchased.

B

In the first month of the school of the school year,.

B

The remaining 25 according to parking services.

B

um Are purchased in january- and this is a rough number, of course, for people to.

B

Buy during the year, but uh because of this I thought it was.

B

Acceptable to um to to try this we're also.

B

In uh no ordinary year, it's a pandemic year.

B

So we don't really know how many people are coming back to school.

B

This year, um but with iu's new schedule where uh all classes will be online.

B

After thanksgiving and before uh february,.

B

This gives it an extra month in 2021 to to play out, but I think we're going.

B

To see the immediate results of it uh within the first month, one more thing.

B

This amendment does: is it uh it incentivizes.

B

Support for the market pricing scheme by saying that.

B

Every dollar after the first 46 dollars per.

B

Permit goes into a new fund specifically to make public works.

B

Improvements in the zone where the permits were sold.

B

So it's called the parking benefit district.

B

The notion is one that donald trump promotes in his book. The.

B

High cost of free parking, and it simply says that uh the benefit.

B

Should accrue to the place where the parking is being.

B

Purchased so basically uh the first 46 dollars of.

B

Every permit sold continue to go to fund the cost of of.

B

Neighborhood zone uh enforcement and maintenance.

B

But uh if the 150 first permit gets sold the first, uh the the the first 46 goes.

B

To the regular use, the additional 60 goes into.

B

A fund for zone six for garden hill to.

B

Repair sidewalks to bury power cables to repair.

B

Curbs to put up lighting, however, they see.

B

Fit of course, they'll be consulting with public works, planning and transportation.

B

And the decision would be made by the council, but this basically creates.

B

It's kind of like a parking and increment finance district. The.

B

Additional revenues uh accrue to the benefit of the area and.

B

They stay in the zone, so if all 250 permits are.

B

Sold it'll, uh I actually didn't do the math 63 000 plus.

B

Let's see six thousand it'll be about uh twelve thousand dollars.

B

That could go to repair a curb or build a sidewalk in the first year.

B

uh But I we don't really know how many permits are going to be sold.

B

uh We don't really know whether there's going to be a demand for it or not.

B

But uh one of the concerns that I heard expressed by.

B

Many people who I consulted on the original idea.

B

uh Was that it should be priced equitably.

B

Originally I had priced it where people who are not eligible.

B

For a neighborhood zone permit could buy one, but only at the higher price.

B

And so to address those issues, I've created this scheme instead.

B

And my goal is to get it discussed. I I don't.

B

Necessarily expect that it should or would carry favor.

B

When the prior proposal was discussed in parking commission.

B

The one that I proposed that had an elevated price for.

B

People living in multi-family dwellings, it was.

B

Met with a 3-3 vote, so it did not pass that did not find favor at parking.

B

Commission, that's why I've changed the pricing scheme to the one you see.

B

You you've heard tonight with that. I'm happy to answer questions on the idea.

B

But before I do that, I'd like to get feedback from.

B

Any member of staff who would like to respond to the proposal.

E

And I I will note that um a link to the uh to the amendment as a pdf was uh sent.

E

Out in chat and uh through no fault of council.

E

Member volun's council staff was working on this late.

E

Today and didn't include this in the packet.

E

Addendum, so apologies for the folks that are just.

E

Now getting to review this.

B

Does staff have any? uh Thank you, mr lucas, does staff have any.

B

uh Thoughts about this uh at all.

K

Hi, this is beth rosenberger planning services manager for.

K

Plan and transportation department, I have all sorts of thoughts.

K

K

I know that council member volun has been talking.

K

About this kind of in concept, for for some time we talked at the parking.

K

Commission about this or something similar.

K

It's sort of a challenge because you didn't.

K

See the amendment until now so and additionally, michelle wall, the.

K

Parking services director can't be here tonight because.

K

She's out of the office, so I think it's probably fair to say.

K

I'm not, I don't know, I'm not opposed to the concept.

K

But concerned about administering this right now and concerned about.

K

Doing escalating prices, I would say when I under I I think I understand sort.

K

Of the market argument or or to see how demand changes.

K

But I would also be open to the same price.

K

For multiple dwellings and just see how many sell just opening it up since.

K

It hasn't been opened up in the past and I'm a little.

K

Apprehensive to limit the funds to only that district.

K

Even though I think I understand the rationale and would be happy to learn.

K

More about it and talk more about it, but I think.

K

It gives me pause at this time, so it's something I want to consider more.

B

I'd love to be able to address uh ms rosenberger's concerns.

B

um First of all- and I wish I had written them down.

B

Because there's several substantial concerns but I'll start with the.

B

Technical concern, one of the biggest reasons why ms wahl.

B

Was concerned about this ordinance when I initially proposed.

B

It was the what she thought of as the technical.

B

Challenge of implementing it in our behind-the-scenes system, that's managed.

B

By a company called t2 and I think the originally her problem.

B

Was that in my uh first proposal, it also allowed.

B

Anyone not merely a resident of zone six to buy a permit, outsiders could buy.

B

A permit and the reasoning at the time was.

B

That it allows people who are going to football games to buy.

B

A permit in the zone because that's one reason.

B

That was one source of demand for parking in that zone was people going to.

B

Games in the stadium well, ms wall had also proposed.

B

A a change to code that would allow for temporary visitor permits.

B

And uh I think that's actually in this in the the ordinance that we're.

B

Discussing and those temporary visitor permits.

B

They're, actually, a first and they're available across all zones.

B

But they addressed the problem that I had originally.

B

Been concerned about that, I wanted to charge a premium to outsiders who.

B

Wanted to park in zone 6 to avoid paying 20 bucks at the stadium for a football.

B

Game but those temporary uh permits do the job and so uh that.

B

Was not necessary and it was also technically complicated.

B

So I changed it and that was her biggest concern with implementing it, because.

B

You know we're close to the beginning of the next year.

B

um Other concerns ms rosenberger, have include.

B

Trying to remember them all.

B

So the the pricing of the permit is equal for everybody.

B

I want to make that clear. uh It's the first 150 permits.

B

That are normally priced, but the final hundred permits are at a higher price.

B

So it's not exclusive to single-family dwelling.

B

Residents, anybody who lit has an address in zone six can now buy a permit.

B

But if they wait until the 150th permit is sold.

B

This year, only as an experiment they're going to pay.

B

A higher price for one of the next 50, and if they wait until the 200th permit.

B

Is sold no matter what kind of building they live in? They'll pay, the higher price, which will be uh 212 so.

B

uh Again, we saw last year that only 97 permits were sold.

B

So the demand among single-family dwellers is more than met.

B

By this proposal, but furthermore this is a sunsetted proposal, it's meant.

B

To experiment and to see what is the demand in zone 6.

B

For parking, if we don't do this, if we only price it at forty six dollars.

B

uh They'll all get snapped up um and there there will be uh we'll have.

B

Learned uh nothing from it, so here we've more than.

B

Accommodated the single family demand- and this is a.

B

Matter of first come first served, but it is, it is uh certainly treats people equitably depending on.

B

What kind of building they live in I've forgotten? What other.

B

Concerns ms rosenberger had, but I'm happy to address them.

K

Thanks councilmember golan, I think um I'm sorry because the ordinance does the.

K

Reference to the fees can you say them again for me really.

K

Quickly about how much is it for the first 150 people.

K

And then my next one is, I can wait if you want, though, but.

B

Okay, so again the the regular price applies to the first 150.

B

Permits one thing: that's important about the amendment is that it caps the number of permits where they weren't capped before.

B

But the first 150 same price as before, like every other zone.

B

These the penultimate 50, are set at the same rate.

B

As the all zone permit, which is what a permit that.

B

Realtors or contractors buy. That is also the same.

B

Cost that fraternities and zone five purchase or presence of collins.

B

They pay the uh the all zone raid.

B

And the last 50 would be at double that rate.

B

So 212 dollars in the 20 20 21 academic year does it answer your.

B

D

Yes, it does next question. Yes, um it's more a statement, but.

K

Okay, it was me expressing concerns about, um I mean you could frame it as.

K

The number of variables happening at once so.

K

It is increased, it is allowing more people to have access to the permit.

K

It is also uh doing an escalating price for permit um based. You know, after.

K

A certain number sold and then the I can see it's not variable.

K

But defining it as a parking benefit district. When um my concern, I can state that my.

K

Concerns on that are twofold number one. It will take a lot of time to generate.

K

Money that could do a project so um I'll try to figure out what.

K

You know if you wanted to build a sidewalk.

K

You know we say: sidewalk they're, a million dollars a mile, it's harder.

K

If it's smaller, sometimes it's more expensive.

K

So that's going to take, I don't know, I guess actually 45.

K

Sometimes and then limiting it to the district.

K

When I understand that, there's more, it would.

K

Show there's demand for the parking, but it's not necessarily the place in the.

K

City that has the highest need for an improved sidewalk say there might.

K

Be other neighborhoods that also need an improved sidewalk, but.

K

Don't have the same parking demand um to do that.

K

They're related, thank you, okay. So the first uh thing was.

B

I've already forgotten it, because I was listening to the second thing.

B

um It's gonna take a lot of time, a lot of money to do anything.

K

Infrastructure, um yes, so the money at first may be limited.

B

To repairs, uh you know the neighborhoods like.

B

Garden hill have been accustomed to not benefiting from.

B

The sidewalk program, because it only builds new sidewalks and most of the.

B

Core neighborhoods have had sidewalks built out a long time ago.

B

But repairing of sidewalks is another matter and they wait in line a long time.

B

For repairs so but the important thing to think about.

B

This is that it's a demonstration project.

B

I want to show that there is um a demand for.

B

Parking that isn't uh appropriately addressed by our current pricing.

B

That it's almost a subsidy of parking and that that street.

B

Value is is much higher than we're pricing it at.

B

But you know, I think that the neighbors would.

B

Object very strongly to dollars generated.

B

In you know, in this program going to other neighborhoods.

B

I think the only reason that they would accept it is because they know that they.

B

Would benefit from it? This is the same principle as a tax to increment.

B

Financing district: um you know instead of the money going.

B

To the state to be distributed generally, the money stays in the district where.

B

The taxes are generated in order to incentivize improvement.

B

This is exactly the same principle, um so.

B

I think it's it's actually very equitable.

B

And that it uh it's key to getting acceptance.

B

From the neighborhood for it, I believe that.

B

In every zone, the the the residents of the zone should benefit.

B

From the zone, because right now, it's serving.

B

People who live outside the zone without compensation to the people in the zone.

B

um You know, like the whole reason that the zone is there is to.

B

It was was to prevent commuting uh back in the 90s people.

B

Trying to commute to iu from outside of it.

B

So um you know, I think, that it's very equitable, it's good economic.

B

Policy, I can, I can understand why.

B

There's an argument that we should uh spread the wealth, but.

B

I uh I don't agree with it. I think that this is an important component of.

B

The notion and wouldn't be viable otherwise.

B

I think I've answered all of missouri's marcus questions, but I'm not sure.

K

Oh I'm sure I have more, but I'm okay. It looks like council member.

K

uh I know I'm not leaving this counselor smith wanted to say something too.

B

Miss rosenberger councilmember rosenberger.

B

That's all I have for the presentation. Sorry, it takes a.

A

No, it's okay! I just didn't want to interrupt and want to make sure you got everything answered: okay, council, member smith,.

I

I I just kept waving my hand because I wasn't sure if.

I

I came to you. If you saw me um you know, I have to say that uh I I'm totally in.

I

Support of uh council members volun idea here.

I

It seems just like a great idea. It seems like a.

I

Great way to have kind of a pilot project.

I

To look at the market system and how that works.

I

And that the benefits are going to the people who bear the burden.

I

Of all the extra people coming to park there.

I

I would think this would make the folks in the neighborhood.

I

Thrilled that they're going to receive some benefit by.

I

Having people interlopers come and park in their.

I

In their neighborhood to go to the iu games or whatever.

I

It just seems like it's a great, it seems like a great idea, so I I hardly.

I

Support this is, is that a question? No, it was just a.

I

B

I really supported it. It's all right, yeah, great idea, we're a q.

A

A but so you know it's 19 more casual here. It's 9 17.

B

I I want to emphasize something about, mr what mr smith said:.

B

um This does not serve people going to a game.

B

It does not there's a different. The staff has already proposed.

B

The establishment of a temporary visitor permit, okay.

B

And that, like you, can buy a permit to park and garden hill.

B

On a game day, if you want to okay, uh so I just want to make sure that that's.

B

Clear, uh but also um while I I appreciate.

B

The support I just wanted to make sure that uh it was known that.

B

uh Garden hill expressed to me their strong interest.

B

In the program um because of these terms, but I also recognize that, unlike the.

B

Zone itself, this is an unusual, a particularly unusual proposal, and so I.

B

Put a sense out on it to see what kind of numbers we get, but if.

B

If it's successful, I'm going to propose it across the board to every.

B

Neighborhood zone, but the the amendment only.

B

Offers it in zone six and it's for zone six permits only.

I

Thank you for that clarification. Thank you still a great program.

I

Thank you: okay, okay, council, member piedmont, smith.

F

F

I I first I want to just clarify that the the new temporary visiting parking.

F

Permits can only be purchased by people who live.

F

In zone six, for even I mean they can live in.

F

Multi-Family residencies residences in zone six, but they would.

F

Have to live there to to purchase a temporary visitor permit.

F

So anyway, just want to clarify that, um but as to this amendment,.

F

Why charge more after selling the first 150 permits.

F

I I just don't understand the logic. That's a.

B

Very good question and a complicated answer.

B

B

When I was proposing a higher price for multi-family dwellers uh everyone, I.

B

Talked to said, that's not equitable. Why are you charging more for.

B

People who live in apartments than people who live in houses.

B

Well, it actually that may be true, but right now there is no parking on the.

B

Street, for any reason, from thursday night to sunday morning,.

B

Unless you live in a single family dwelling.

B

So right now, people who live in multi-family dwellings are required.

B

If they want to have a car to park in private off-street parking and the.

B

Market rate, the lowest rate for garage parking for.

B

Example in that area is 25 a month um and apartment complexes.

B

Can charge what they want, so there's parking, that's being.

B

Completely unused on the street. That is that, if, if we continue for another year.

B

We'll continue to be unavailable to anybody and I'm not somebody who's.

B

Such a uh an anti-car fanatic that I don't.

B

Think we should use the resource that we have.

B

So if there is demand for parking- and we have.

B

Supply that we're artificially keeping off the market, it doesn't make sense.

B

So but uh at the other hand, 46 a year for a neighborhood permit is.

B

A significant subsidy to single-family homes.

B

And when the program was created in 1992, I'm not sure that this particular.

B

Facet of it was thought about that much, but since then.

B

We have come a long way in the way we think about housing, equity.

B

And you know it just this: this we only raised the um the fee.

B

To what it cost us to manage our neighborhood zone program.

B

With ordnance 1811. for 25 years, we charged 25 a year per permit.

B

Across the board, throughout the city, uh because it was completely arbitrary.

B

There is no thought behind it now at least the 46 dollars, which is.

B

Escalating every three percent every year, at least it.

B

Covers our costs, we established that about three four years ago,.

B

But it's still a subsidy. It's still a subsidy to single family homes.

B

There is no good reason why uh people living in duplexes quadplexes.

B

Multi-Family apartment buildings, don't have access to the street.

B

But if we gave everybody in the neighborhood access to the street.

B

We would be the permits would sell out in no time. That's why there's a cap.

B

And uh so this provides us a unique opportunity.

B

To figure out what the market is in this area, the the other problem with these.

B

Annual permits is that you can only change the price.

B

Once a year, frankly, we should be going to a semester.

B

Program for neighborhood permits, but until such.

B

Times we do that this is a quick and dirty way, not only.

B

To solve the empty street problem in zone.

B

Six, but to do a brief market experiment and to see.

B

What is the price people are willing to pay for? These permits.

B

If we don't sell them all, then we know that maybe we're charging too much and.

B

There's not as much demand for it, but if, in a year like this, where not.

B

Even every iu student is coming back that we still sell out of these permits.

B

That's a sign that to everybody across the city that the.

B

Neighborhood parking permit program is underpriced.

B

And needs to be raised to meet demand. So that's my.

B

Long answer to it, I hope that suffices. I still don't understand. I mean if you.

F

Think there's such a high demand and why not just charge eighty dollars for.

F

All of the 250 permits, because we just don't know it just it.

F

Doesn't I mean there are some equity issues.

F

With your previous proposal, but with this one as well in a way it's just, it.

F

Just seems arbitrary that, okay, what if I you know, got a job at iu and I.

F

Move here in november and there's only you know, and I have and.

F

I want to park my car in the street and now I have to pay 212 dollars.

F

Because I just happened to move to bloomington.

F

Two months, three months too late, I, if the average, if, if the market price.

B

For parking in zone six right now is 300.

B

A year uh you know, then I mean the program. The part that's.

B

Inequitable is not this proposal; the part that's inequitable is the.

B

Neighborhood parking zone itself, which is insensitive uh to.

B

To the demand it's providing supply at the subsidized rate, but to change.

B

That program now is going to take a lot more than this minor change, which.

B

Is an administrative change that could be implemented by august 15th? uh It's just offering uh additional permits.

B

To people who weren't eligible before um the the concern that staff had initially.

B

Was implementing it and we worked out that.

B

uh Concern uh at parking commission, but uh make no mistake. The inequity.

B

Of the program is the program itself and not this proposal. This proposal, at least.

B

Gives people a new choice, a less expensive choice.

B

Than any market.

B

Available parking right now.

B

But again it also it charges everybody the same price.

B

It just after a certain number of permits have been sold.

B

We know that there is demand and the price goes up. It's.

B

Called escalating parking, we have other examples of it in code. We have.

B

Escalating fines for noise violations.

B

If we know that I mean the big problem is what if we.

B

Charge 46 and we sold 200 250 permits. We don't necessarily know who they went.

B

To this at least puts some friction and.

B

We're going to address the demand that we know the single family.

B

Homeowners have they're not going to be affected, uh there's at least 97 permits available to them.

B

um But every for everybody else, you know, including single-family homeowners, who.

B

Didn't buy a permit last year, at least it's it treats everybody.

B

Equally, it's a matter of first come first serve.

A

Other questions I have some but um the other council members.

A

Okay, I think I mean I think this is gonna- be hard to figure.

A

Out for me tonight, but um I I you know.

A

I am still very hesitant on a different price scheme as.

A

It as it goes, I mean I, I know, we've talked a little about just having one.

A

Price the whole time- and I like that, um have.

A

You talked to people in in the housing other than.

A

Single family to see what they think about this, no.

D

I I will say this: I have received several emails from residents of zone.

B

Six, who live in multi-family dwellings, who ask, uh I can't even get a visitor.

B

Visitor to park here there's no way to buy a visitor permit.

B

And this ordinance is going to fix that, but they also have asked me the question.

B

The street is empty. Why can't I park here.

B

Now I have an answer to them, uh but the problem is.

B

If we offer more permits to this would be the first time.

B

That we offer permits to people who don't live in a single family dwelling.

B

We don't know what the demand is, but I expect it's going to be much higher.

B

Than the demand for single family in this neighborhood.

B

If we put the price of 46 to everybody, I withdraw the amendment.

B

It's not worth doing. We need to find a way to control.

B

The demand for parking you do that through price.

A

So right and as as councilmember piedmont smith asked.

A

Would you is it possible to do something like eighty dollars right I mean I don't.

A

That's so arbitrary, but the same price for every single permit.

A

In this neighborhood, no, I would not there's no there's no.

B

Basis for it it's an arbitrary figure. We don't know whether it's too high or too.

B

Low! That's why I'm proposing this three-tier.

B

Scheme but aren't your tiers arbitrary.

B

They are but they're tiered and the first 150 are the same price.

B

Price as before I mean at least they they escalate, so we can see if, if the.

B

Demand slows down. uh If it does, then it's a clear sign.

B

That we shouldn't renew it. But if those permits sell out even at.

B

The higher price we've been grossly underestimating how.

B

Much we should be charging for permits. We should be thinking about market-based pricing across all parking.

B

All neighborhood zones, and so okay, so you are worried that too.

A

Many permits will be sold, and so you want to increase the prices we sell more. Do we know.

A

The nitty-gritty do, we know how many spots are available.

A

And how many permits are sold now, how many non-single-family home.

A

Home there are how many of those folks have their own parking.

A

For one car right, like do, we know these. We know some of these things. We know.

B

That there are roughly 240 spaces in zone 6 on the street according.

B

To planning and transportation, we know from parking services that 97.

B

Permits were sold last year in the first year of the zone.

B

And those permits, of course, could only be bought by.

B

Residents of single-family dwellings, so we know what the demand is.

B

And the first reason why this amendment came up, in my mind, was.

B

To say, uh there's this is one of the lowest uh ratios of single-family.

B

Dwellings to all dwellings in a neighborhood zone.

B

So we've addressed the demand for single-family dwellings.

B

And my response to the concern about first come first served is.

B

We don't know how many houses we don't haven't done account of how many of them have off-street parking, but that would be my answer to.

B

Those houses that um that you know maybe.

B

Don't get a permit this year at the price they were used to.

B

uh If they have off-street parking, they should use it if they have a driveway.

B

For example, but you know we don't have that figure, but I.

B

Still think that this proposal, more than adequately addresses.

B

Concern over demanded caps, the total number of permits- it's uh only you know, a fraction of.

B

Permits above the total number of spots in the zone, so.

B

It basically doesn't oversell the zone, uh but it does experiment with price to.

B

See uh I mean there is no better opportunity.

B

To do a market experiment on a permit, that's renewed on an annual.

B

Basis except this so we're providing as many.

B

Premises as we provided last year and then some but in case there's a.

B

Run on permits, we can put the brakes on it through.

B

Price, that's how you you manage demand the 97 permits. I'm sorry! This is my last.

A

Question I'm just I'm right on this topic. I think that comes full number. The 97 permits sold is that visitor and residential.

B

No visitor permits are now temporary and they can be. You can buy as many as.

B

You want okay, I'm sorry, I thought visitor permits.

A

Are still annual and we're also adding in a temporary.

A

Permit option, but I thought you could residents and single families homes in.

A

The zones can still get an annual visitor permit.

B

I think that the ordinance removes annual visitor permits in favor of the.

B

Temporary, but I could be wrong about this- I haven't looked at it lately, but I think that it revokes.

B

Annual permits in favor of visitor permits, which are 11.

B

Per day 55 dollars per week, 110 dollars per fortnight.

A

Okay, I'm gonna, let council member piedmont, smith, ask her question and then.

A

I know staff member ms rosenberger would like to comment as well, so um we'll do that order. So.

F

uh I wanted to know about the how you got the number of 250 as the.

F

Limit of what multi-family dwelling.

F

Residents could purchase in zone six. I didn't you already said.

F

You said that um there are 240 about 240 spaces.

F

97 permits were sold last year, so those are two single.

F

Home residents, so that leaves you know about 140.

F

143 so but you're saying you want to sell a maximum 250.

F

So you are overselling the parking well that this is close to your concerns.

B

About equity, it does not privilege single-family.

B

uh Residents, it doesn't reserve 100 permits the 97 permits that they bought.

B

Last year, uh so it simply says I mean right now.

B

There's no cap on permits you there you can sell as many people want to buy, but the only people who want to buy them in this zone.

B

Bought 97 of them and they're they're, the ones who are eligible as.

B

Single-Family homeowners they're a whole lot more multi-family dwellers in zone six, but I'm not uh saying that there should.

B

Be a parking space for every multi-family dweller, I'm simply saying the other 140 or so 150. Let's make them available.

B

Let's sell them so 250 is the total cap, including the people who live in single.

F

Family homes, correct and it's first come first serve.

F

So, okay! Well then, I have even more problems with.

F

It so if somebody you know, is on vacation until august.

F

31St comes back, they they live here.

F

They live there. They've lived there for 20 years, let's say in a single family.

F

House now, suddenly they have to pay 106.

F

Just because they were on vacation for for two weeks or something.

F

I I mean, if we don't, if we, if we treat single family homeowners,.

B

Differently then, it will be no less than equitable than your concern over price.

B

I mean well, my concern over price is about first, come first serve.

F

I, what if I mean I it seems just as arbitrary to me to say.

F

First, come first serve. You know up to a different price when we get down to 100.

F

Permits left, then we get down to 50 points left as saying: let's just make them all 80. So if we're gonna do this as a pilot.

F

Anyway, I would prefer to give one price, no matter when you buy.

F

The thing 250 permit limit and just say.

F

Eighty dollars, eighty five dollars: seventy five dollars, whatever.

B

If we, if we price it anything below what the actual market is,.

B

The the market will be overrun by more opportunistic.

B

uh People- and uh you know, people who are renting.

B

Who didn't have I mean they're gonna, instead of paying 200 250.

B

For parking which they're, maybe avoiding in terra, trace or brownstone terrace.

B

uh Or, however much more it is in that I mean that's the.

B

The low end of the market in zone six um they're going to opt for this 46 dollar.

B

Permit even at 80, I think it's underpriced.

B

um There's a there's a much bigger demand.

B

For parking in zone six non-commuter demand.

B

Than there is in other zones, I could just because the sheer number of.

B

Multi-Family dwellings there, um but I mean it's not worth it to make.

B

It available to everybody at 46, it will create, it will recreate the.

B

Conditions that cause the neighborhood to request.

B

The zone in the first place I wasn't proposing to make it 46 dollars.

F

For everybody, I was proposing to make it eighty dollars for everybody.

B

But I mean how, on what basis do you make that price and how do we.

F

Basis, do you say that the first hundred people get it for 46 and the second.

F

100 people have to pay more, I mean I, I I've based it on two on number one. The.

B

Current price, the market rate for off street parking.

B

And the escalator, it's the escalator that matters. Okay, I'm admitting fully that the pricing is.

B

Arbitrary because we have no other data except those two data points.

B

And you know here we're offering parking that wasn't available before.

B

It was simply not we, the the demand was 97 permits.

B

Last year, that was the demand, but the streets were empty.

B

So uh you know this is a way of of in a controlled experiment. Seeing what.

B

The demand is in a parking zone that has an unusual.

B

Situation in the first place, it's like no other zone in that it's.

B

Enforced at night and on weekends, so uh I mean I I this has been it's very.

B

Complicated, I don't blame anyone for thinking that there's a certain apparent inequity to it, but it's sort of.

B

A quick and dirty experiment that we can implement right now.

B

For this school year that will solve the immediate problem.

B

Of uh empty streets uh going looking for parking without overselling.

B

It, uh and with by putting an appropriate.

B

Amount of friction on the final hunter permits that are.

B

Sold uh you know if you're concerned about single-family.

B

Homeowners not being able to buy at 46.

B

Then you have to ask yourself the question: why are you prioritizing.

B

Them over people living in multi-family dwellings.

A

I want us just to be aware of the time we have a few other things to get to.

A

Tonight- and it is uh quite late um and just correction, mr mr farshi has.

B

Pointed out that uh the temporary permit or the the annual.

B

Perm, visitor permits still will be in this they're not being canceled after all, right, and that is only for single family.

A

Homeowners, um I want to see if miss rosenberger.

A

Wants to weigh in on this, she asked if she could comment.

A

K

Hi yeah. um Well, I guess I'm not sure it's. My first thing would just be.

K

I understand we just didn't get the amendment.

K

Until right now, and especially with um this wall out.

K

Today, I think we would, I would say, we're reluctant. We.

K

I couldn't support it right now, as is, and I definitely could not support it.

K

Without her having the opportunity to review in.

K

Public works as well um some small comments. I would make.

K

They're, actually just regular size is uh some points that were made.

K

Was uh you know about the money going back into.

K

The district but the the irony that the neighborhood parking.

K

Permit program is subsidized by the entire city.

K

So in no way does the cost of the permits cover the program right now.

K

But then the benefit of that amount was going to the district.

K

Again, I think I'm not all opposed to a neighborhood or to a.

K

Benefit district, but I the whole city, all taxpayers and are.

K

Still paying into neighborhood permit programs whether or not you live.

K

In one and the residents who do live there already do get a benefit.

K

And that their streets are enforced, so they have monitored parking on the.

K

Street, which is a benefit and then the other way it could be.

K

Changed, of course, is just the reason this inequity exists is.

K

That code says it's only detached single family homes.

K

That's a different change that could happen.

K

And finally, well maybe a couple other things.

K

In the transportation demand management plan, it does recommend.

K

Raising the prices for residential parking permits.

K

It recommends- um and this is based- this is based on analysis.

K

To 40 a month, um it said raising it by 40 a month, so.

K

Maybe that's in addition to the 45, but that's 480 a year, so.

K

That is a much uh much different price, but I would say it's based on something.

K

um And I think this also comes down to a bit of a.

K

I want to call it a philosophical debate of who street is it.

K

I think it matters for the people who live on a street and in a neighborhood.

K

To get to weigh in but it's also maintained by the city as.

K

A whole and and also a public space, so.

K

Trying to to balance that I do think the neighborhood zones have been useful.

K

As basically a transportation demand management strategy, like council member bowling, said.

K

So that people couldn't get free parking quotes next to campus, so it is a tool.

K

For that um but anyway, that was a lot of points.

K

Basically, right now, staff can't support without some more.

K

Time um thanks, if I can respond briefly.

B

um I agree that uh michelle wall and public works should weigh in on this.

B

I you know fully acknowledged that I introduced this at the last minute.

B

Because I wasn't even sure I was going to introduce it, I you know.

B

Have had to think about it, a lot and based on the conversation tonight, I.

B

Decided to introduce it so I'm totally fine with abstentions,.

B

Tonight, for me, it was more important that we discussed the ideas, and this was an opportunity to discuss it in committee.

B

Number one number two: the uh the this proposal already.

B

Contemplates the cost of maintaining the program.

B

When the parking commission did their first report.

B

They found that the actual cost of maintaining the neighborhood zone.

B

Program was closer to 40 dollars per permit.

B

And they were charging 25., uh the the ordinance 1811 set the price to to.

B

Fully recover the cost of providing the neighborhood.

B

Zone enforcement program, so this proposal does nothing to in other.

B

Words, no matter what the price of the permit sold the first 46 dollars continues to go to funding the cost of the program.

B

Dollars above the cost of the program, the cost of the.

B

Single-Family permit or what is now, the the current permit price.

B

uh Would go to uh the benefit of the neighborhood, so it's only.

B

Surplus dollars and it should make anyone who lives in.

B

That neighborhood feel better about the money they're.

B

Putting into parking knowing that the surplus, not all of it, but the.

B

Surplus stays in the neighborhood. Finally, the idea that our plans call for.

B

Raising street parking to 40 a month uh is the best illustration yet.

B

Of how relatively more equitable, this proposal is.

B

It's starting: it's an experiment to raise prices, to see.

B

If, in fact, the market will bear it- and this is the perfect test case,.

B

And again it has a sunset provision of february 21.

B

I am open between now and next week to adjusting any aspect of this.

B

um But the escalation is the feature, not a bug um but again at 480.

B

A year I'm proposing less than half that as an experiment for one year only and.

B

We're going to find out within the first month how successful it is so with that I'm uh happy to uh to hear.

B

Public comment: thank you.

E

Councilman rosenberger, I think your uh audio cut out.

A

Sorry I was on I muted because I was typing. um Let's move to public comment.

A

Sorry, so if anyone out there would like to make a comment on this.

A

Okay, so you'll have five minutes. It looks.

A

Like right, okay, mr greg alexander, should be unmuted and.

E

Ready to comment thanks um hi, this is greg alexander.

L

And this is a progressive sign. You know, I'm I'm.

L

Excited uh we really do need to open parking up to more of the market and.

L

Also approach market price, you know.

L

And I have uh basically the same concerns staff. Did you know that the.

L

um The benefit that the neighborhood gets is that their parking is managed.

L

And as long as that parking is managed responsibly, I think it's it's they get that benefit. It's like. It's not ridiculously oversold.

L

I think the people who actually you know, live there year in year, out they're gonna figure out what they need to do to get the permit to be first in line, whereas people that rent they're just gonna come.

L

In in a wave, probably at the end of july, you know um so I think probably the escalating price is probably.

L

Overthinking it, but specifically the parking benefit district like.

L

That was invented to overcome organized opposition from like a downtown.

L

Emergency association, it wasn't meant to overcome a.

L

Neighborhood association, I mean, I realized it could, um but the amount of money involved.

L

Is just it's a pittance, um this neighborhood we're talking about garden.

L

Hill right it it desperately needs sidewalks.

L

On 17th street, uh which there are some sidewalks there, uh but it.

L

Desperately needs complete sidewalks on 17th street and it.

L

Desperately just almost 80 of the residents every day.

L

That that that do walk to get to campus.

L

Wind up walking just this ridiculous experience, undone.

L

That the sidewalk's undone and then on 13th and then.

L

Crossing indiana avenue it is it's embarrassing and it hasn't improved in.

L

The 20 years since I last lived in garden hill, it hasn't improved one bit.

L

um And that's been identified again and again is.

L

As something that needs to be taken care of- and nothing has happened because it's.

L

Going to take somewhere between a half million dollars and a million dollars to take care of that stretch of done and we allocating twenty thousand.

L

Dollars every year or fifty thousand dollars a year, if you're optimistic, I don't know how much money you expect this to raise.

L

It just doesn't even make the slightest dent in that.

L

And it's just ridiculous to give staff this huge overhead.

L

To to monitor such a tiny fund of money and then to coordinate with the.

L

Neighborhood association, the neighborhood associations, can be like what can we buy with this and they're just going to be, you know, they're going to be flipping through the catalog and be like well what costs a pittance when what they have is this half million.

L

Dollar, huge, gaping problem, undone and the city needs.

L

To solve that problem, the city just needs to solve that problem. Doing anything other than solving. That problem is simply wasting time like. We can't pretend we're at all serious about.

L

Transportation, if we are not even funding sidewalks undone.

L

That is such a crucial link between literally thousands of units of.

L

Apartments, including a thousand units that were approved just last year,.

L

Specifically because the sidewalks in this neighborhood are so good when there's not even sidewalk undone, so we just need to do that and like.

L

Having all this overhead debt and administrate such a small fund is.

L

Not going to accomplish that um thanks a bunch, though I'm real glad you guys are looking at this.

A

Thank you, mr alexander.

A

Any other comments, public comments, don't see any additional requests to.

E

A

Okay, any other comments from council members on this.

A

Council member volin, uh just briefly and again, I encourage.

B

An abstention to anyone tonight I just wanna have a discussion, but.

B

um You know we are going to have organized opposition from neighborhood.

B

Associations, if we touch the neighborhood zone program,.

B

Guarantee it if you thought that the.

B

Debate over plexus was uh concerning this one won't be quite as.

B

Dramatic but it'll still be there. Okay, this is a program that serves.

B

Core neighborhoods, all right, so there's going to be organized opposition.

B

Against raising the cost of parking on the street.

B

uh I think that a parking benefit district will in fact be necessary.

B

um But I also think it's good policy, like you know the.

B

The the people in those neighborhoods do have legitimate concern.

B

You know the parking should be market uh parking, but.

B

uh I uh do not appreciate the idea that somehow, uh with all due respect to.

B

Customer smith, you know a neighborhood out like park. Ridge east is going to.

B

Benefit from sidewalk dollars generated in garden hill. um I.

B

The mr alexander is right about the need for sidewalks on 17th on dunn, but.

B

There's a reason they have been built because the money hasn't been there.

B

There's two ways: you get that money: you either get a developer, who's building.

B

New to add it as part of the cost, we see we.

B

Saw that happen with the cdg project they're going to fix the 19th.

B

Street 19th street I've got an echo suddenly, I've got it.

B

Or um or you start funding it with this and.

B

Of course, this is a pittance. Of course it depends. Twelve thousand.

B

Dollars isn't going to go very far, but it's a demonstration project. If you.

B

Charge 480 a year and you leave the first 10 to.

B

Funding the cost of maintaining the program- that's 430 some dollars per permit times, 250. That's.

B

Hundred thousand dollars, or so okay, now we're talking six figures a year.

B

uh From that demand that will fund sidewalks.

B

Okay, um uh this is if, if we know, there's a need in district.

B

Six and we have a specialized way of funding it.

B

It's no skin off of the rest of the city's back to fund it. This way, it's.

B

Money from the district serving the district.

B

So with that again, I I don't mind.

B

Abstentions, I would ask people not to vote no on it. Just wanted to have this.

B

Conversation tonight and I thank everyone for their time.

A

Okay, thank you, council member volun. Any other comments.

A

um Since we only did questions earlier, anyone councilmember okay,.

A

I'll just say quickly, you know, I'm, I am for parking benefit districts and I'm.

A

For giving everyone an option to who lives.

A

In a in a zone to buy a permit, no matter what kind of home you live in, um I'd like to do a little more work on.

A

This this amendment, though so I think for now I.

A

Will most likely abstain? Okay, um okay, so let's do a.

A

Roll call here not roll sorry, let's just do a poll.

A

To do a recommended due pass um council member volin.

A

Yes, councilmember smith,.

A

I

Yes, thank you. Councilmember piedmont, smith,.

A

Okay- and I also will abstain okay, so here we for amendment five, we.

A

Have two yes recommendations and two abstentions. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

A

Okay, so now we will move to amendment 6., I'm sorry. I have to be on speaker now. I.

A

Cannot get my hubs to reconnect.

B

I'll I'll, second, your motion of amendment six.

A

I move moment six. Thank you, okay. So, should I pull this up, let me see.

A

It this is an amendment um that was discussed with me.

A

About motorcycle, the definition of motorcycle, as well as the definition of.

A

Motor driven cycles. So what let's see here.

A

Should I share my screen because this was.

A

Sent out late in the day, does it help to share yeah everybody.

C

Yeah: okay, don't share my screen council member. If you want.

C

I have your amendment. Oh, that would be wonderful.

A

Thank you. Thank you, it'll be easier for me, so I can see people.

B

Who can I ask who sent amendment 6 out of trying to find it in my email.

A

Stevenson this was.

A

Around 445, I think, thank you, okay, so this um this amends.

A

The motorcycle parking restrictions by adding in two new definitions so in the.

A

Original amendment earlier tonight, well, the original ordinance we talked.

A

About motorcycles and mopeds and mopeds, but it in the indiana code.

A

The indiana code talks about motorcycles and then.

A

Motor driven cycles and what I'd like to do.

A

Is just have our bloomington code mirror the indiana code on these different.

A

Types of scooters and motor driven cycles so.

A

I think this is important because um folks, who have scooters or mopeds in.

A

Town, you have to register them at the bmv or dmv and.

A

um So they use the indiana code to know if they have a class, a motor driven.

A

Cycle or a class b motor driven cycle, and so I think it.

A

Makes a lot of sense just for our code to match up with the.

A

State code, with these definitions and in the.

A

Previous ordinance changes, moped wasn't defined.

A

So this really helps people with different.

A

Types of motor driven cycles know where they're allowed to park.

A

Right and know where they cannot park so.

A

This was I just we just sent this out today, so it is relatively new, but also.

A

Relatively minor, I sent it to staff and if they want to weigh in on this, that I.

A

Would like to go to them just to get their opinion so.

A

I'm not sure who would comment on this sure. This is path. Rosenberger planning.

K

Staff we had seen a draft of this.

K

Earlier and then got to review it briefly today,.

K

We also asked our title 15 attorney barbara mckinney, to take a look. She was.

K

Okay with it um so other than that, this includes.

K

The inaccurate udo code reference: we are supportive, it's great.

A

Thank you very much, and we we have that other amendment that changes the.

A

Code in this, so I think that they'll make one.

A

Wonderful change together, so, okay, so I'd like to take council member.

A

Questions here about this amendment.

A

Councilmember roland uh just to for clarity, a class.

B

One bike parking facility is like a locker.

B

High, like for long term parking class, two is like a bike rack.

A

That's my understanding. I think staff could.

A

Answer that as well.

D

Oops, oh, am I unmuted you're unmuted? Sorry, I clicked something.

K

A little odd: um yes, that's correct understanding.

K

We consider when we're talking about clown parking.

K

Class two is short term, so the uracs that you see.

K

Around town and sometimes the u-racks in corrals and so forth, yes,.

B

Okay, thank you.

A

I do want to point out a change in this.

A

Amendment it is that if you look at letter e, the original amendment said no.

A

Person shall park a motorcycle or moped on a class 2.

A

Bicycle parking facility, but we got rid of the word moped. I just want to.

A

Make sure everyone is aware of this and said this restriction, so no person.

A

Shall park a motorcycle on a class two bicycle parking facility and then this.

A

Restriction does not apply to a class a or b.

A

Motor driven cycle, so this is saying that the little scooters like the.

A

Vespas and um moped so bikes with little bikes that.

A

Look with pedals and motors can be parked at the u-locks.

A

This this was asked for by some folks who drive.

A

Mopeds and vespas, because these are these are some very small.

A

Vehicles that can easily be stolen and they need need to be locked up and.

A

People who drive them try to park in high.

A

Visibility, spaces, and this would allow them.

A

Then, to park somewhere right on the street like outside of restaurants and.

A

Things where people can see their vehicle and where they can lock it up. um So that is a little.

A

Different here, these vehicles also don't tend to weigh.

A

Very much so um it's my understanding that they.

A

Can lock up to u-locks and other bike racks.

A

In a way that doesn't damage that infrastructure.

A

Other council comments.

A

Comments from staff wait, I don't think you're seeing me.

F

For some reason, oh you're right, I couldn't I'm sorry, I'm like waving.

A

No okay, I'm sorry isabelle! I'm sorry! You can just.

A

Okay, yes, council number: if you want to smith.

A

um Well, I I think the biggest change here is something you haven't.

F

Even mentioned, and that's um that uh letter d is crossed out.

F

So that um motorcycles or mopeds could park.

F

In a regular vehicle parking space in a garage.

F

um Taking up a whole parking space, which is not very efficient, in my view,.

F

Did staff consult with uh michelle wall or uh anybody who.

F

Who works in the parking garages uh uh to to get their view on this, or did you.

F

Council member rosenbarger.

A

Well, um what I did was send the amendment to.

A

Staff- and they just said they were on board with the changes so.

A

That is what I did um I I I liked that change, because.

A

As far as I know, motorcycles don't pay a lower rate to park in a garage and then.

A

Restricting them to only a few spots doesn't seem fair to me.

A

I also like the idea um I mean multiple motorcycles can park.

A

In one spot so that they tend to park next to each.

A

Other um because, like if they're, if they're riding with friends or something they share spots on a regular basis, I.

A

Would say, um I guess I would also say, because our garages have historically never been full. I am not.

A

Worried and even with the fourth street garage being gone right, our garages are nowhere near full.

A

um I'm not worried that we have a shortage of parking.

A

The staff wants their way in yeah, I'd appreciate it.

A

Council member p, miss question.

A

Hi, yes, this is beth rosenberger. um I didn't notice that part of the change.

K

So, thank you and I so because michelle.

K

Wall is out, she didn't get a chance to review it since it came in today.

K

Raeanne cox is on this call and raeanne. Would you be able to weigh in on.

K

This and the change about motorcycle parking.

H

um I can't weigh in on the garage- I don't have anything to do with the.

H

Garages, um that would be a michelle.

H

Question I think you should get her input on this.

K

And ran to you, if I guess a moped is allowed at a bike.

K

Rack but a motorcycle is not does that.

K

If mopeds are lighter, does that achieve what you were hoping to achieve because.

K

This change did originate from parking enforcement in order to be able.

K

To actually enforced some parking, we thought was.

K

Illegal but then dug into code, and it was a gray area so.

K

Yeah ran: can you weigh in on that part too.

H

I think mopeds would be okay. Motorcycles are a bigger.

H

Vehicle and they're, they just take up more room and it.

H

Should be for smaller vehicles uh like mopeds and.

H

Bicycles, we're promoting that kind of a.

H

Transportation around town so parking a motorcycle in there is not.

H

My opinion it just takes up too much room.

A

Okay, councilmember volun.

A

You're on mute, thank you. I'm scrambling to find the uh in state.

B

Code, the exact dimensions of the definition of motor.

B

Driven cycle and I'm not succeeding in particular.

B

What I'm looking for is, should I assume that all the vehicles.

B

That we're talking about that should be allowed to park and, let's call.

B

It bicycle parking are ones that do not require a license.

B

To be operated on city streets like a motorcycle, yes,.

B

Is there any vehicle that does require licensing.

B

That would be allowed to park at a class 2.

B

Facility- I wouldn't I wouldn't want him in there. No well.

B

I don't either I'm just trying to determine whether that's what this code.

B

This new ordinance proposes.

H

Yes, I don't know yourself, so those are saying that.

B

A moped does not require license and it could park there.

B

A motorcycle does require a license and it should not.

B

Be able to park there, there are different. There are different sizes of.

H

Mopeds it depends on the ccs 49 cc, how about.

B

Motor wattage, if it's an electric bike that can go.

B

uh 28 miles an hour, it's still it's a class.

B

3 pedelec, which is you know, sort of like a moped.

B

But uh they don't measure output in ccs. They measure it in watts.

B

Do I have to worry about a bike that has a motor on it being classified? Okay,.

B

Okay, so no electric bikes are excluded from the definition of.

A

Motor-Driven cycle and indiana codes really.

B

huh All right, thank you and uh one other clarification over steven.

E

Go ahead, I was just going to say I think class. A motor driven cycles do.

A

Require insurance and a license so class b motor driven cycles do not those.

A

Are the ones that have to have a max engine displacement of 50, cc's.

A

And but class a can be a little larger. As my.

A

Understanding and they are defined by having a max horsepower of five.

A

If this is a little confusing to me, but.

A

Those you need a license and registration, so.

A

It's it's mostly, um that is just a five horsepower means.

A

It's like not a big vehicle and it cannot go like anywhere.

A

Near a motorcycle, so that's like as fast so that's like distinguishing a scooter.

A

From a motorcycle and so a scooter or moped.

A

Could fall into either one of these categories class a or class b, depending on the max engine displacement.

B

A scooter as in a vespa or a scooter, as in.

B

A lime two-wheeled and that's a scooter. Okay, thank you. Vespa.

A

Councilmember piedmont, smith: I just did a google search.

F

And both class, a and class b motor driven cycles have to have license.

F

And registration, so, oh, okay, what mr bowman was saying is is not.

F

Correct so even when you do need a license, some of those vehicles you are, according to this amendment,.

F

Going to be allowed to park in a bike rack.

B

I wasn't saying it: I was asking yeah right.

A

To me, a license, isn't a distinction that matters it's about.

A

The size right of the vehicle and like how much it weighs to park in.

A

A bike rack, um I think we should check on that. I don't know if steven, if you.

A

Have it I know we're getting into this today, but I am fairly.

A

Certain you don't need a driver's license for a.

A

Class b scooter because it tends to be.

A

The vehicle of choice, if you've had your license taken away.

A

I mean you still have to title it. I I'm happy to provide uh more.

E

Information on on this before next week's meeting.

E

um I do think there are things short of a typical driver's license that folks.

E

Can have to be able to drive the class b.

E

Motor driven cycles, may I just remind my colleagues that.

F

We have a whole another ordinance to discuss tonight. I know.

F

I know yes, okay. Well, if we can, if council is finished with questions, we.

A

Can go to public comment. Is everyone? Okay? I can't see ron so speak up if you got something, no okay, just because we're doing a.

A

Shared screen: okay, let's move to council, co or public comment on this moment; six motorcycles and motor driven cycles.

A

Anybody out there want to comment from a bond binder to.

E

Comment who should be unmuted now.

J

uh Hi yeah, my name is theobond binder. I'm I'm actually also a member of the.

J

City's parking commission- um and uh I you know, I confess that when.

J

The the whole list of title 15 changes came before the parking commission a few days ago.

J

Everything did seem pretty reasonable, but after um kind of a second look I I admit I.

J

I do kind of feel like I, I rubber stamped it in retrospect, so I do want to.

J

Speak in support of council member rosenberger's changes.

J

um Specifically on three points, so the first is that I and this point has been raised before, but I I really I do want.

J

To drive it home, which is that motor driven cycles are.

J

Often very lightweight, and they are very easy to steal.

J

Either, just by rolling them away or picking them up, and you know throwing.

J

Them in a larger vehicle, unless they're secured to something just.

J

Like how you would lock up a bicycle, um and so in practice, that's kind of.

J

Just whatever is around, like a you know, a signpost or bike rack or.

J

Other fixture, but that's not always near a full-sized car parking space so.

J

You know I I do certainly think that motorcycles.

J

Which are you know, typically, a lot larger in size would would.

J

Not be a good fit for parking and bike racks, I just don't see the issue with.

J

Motor-Driven cycles as opposing the same issue, given that they are usually a lot smaller, I don't think there are any.

J

Physical, you know size dimensions that are defined in law. For that.

J

But there are power restrictions and so from a practical standpoint,.

J

You know they tend to be a lot. um You know smaller.

J

um In physical size, um so the second issue.

J

um Kind of to try to specifically address council member piedmont, smith's.

J

Point earlier about the prohibition on motorcycles.

J

Parking in car spaces in city garages- I do want to.

J

Point out that you know most cars that park downtown.

J

Are only transporting single person, the the driver, so so in either the case.

J

Of a single occupant car or a motorcycle using a given parking space, the outcome.

J

Is the same, the space is serving a single individual person, so the the.

J

Difference between allowing a motorcycle carrying one.

J

Person and a car carrying one person.

J

Allowing one and not the other, becomes kind of just this sort of very abstract.

J

Academic exercise, there's no practical reason.

J

If you're talking about moving people, uh you know.

J

In both cases, the part the parking space is serving one person.

J

And I don't think staff is proposing making the garages.

J

uh Carpool only we're still allowing single occupant vehicles.

J

To park in the spaces, and so whether it's a motorcycle or a car.

J

It doesn't matter one one is, you know, taking up less.

J

Physical space or it could, but I mean in in both cases- I mean you- should still.

J

Have that kind of flexibility um and then the final point I want to.

J

Make uh is just to remind everybody that you know, obviously, city code should align with state laws and definitions.

J

And so as as it pertains to uh you know the definitions of.

J

Mdca and b, um obviously that's a you know: better choice of language for.

J

The ordinance compared to uh you know something like moped which isn't defined in state law, so.

J

So in general, I think that council, member rosenberger's.

J

Amendment is is pretty well thought out here.

J

Thanks, thank you very much, mr binder.

A

He looks like we have another.

D

Public comment from yeah uh sam welsh should be unmuted.

E

And ready to comment hi hello. Can you hear me.

M

Yes, yeah, okay, cool! Thank you. um Thanks for.

M

Letting me speak here um yeah. I just want to speak for a minute.

M

About uh just as a motorcycle enthusiast to motorcycles in general,.

M

um That I wish there were more spots around like.

M

um It I don't like parking taking up a whole spot.

M

But that's kind of what we have to do because, as far as I can tell there's exactly one motorcycle spot around the entire.

M

Downtown square- um and I I do park there.

M

I've often shared it with like two or sometimes even three other motorcycles.

M

um So a little goes a long way like we don't need much, but.

M

A little bit more spots would be great.

M

And then it gets weird with who pays for the meter and stuff.

M

So yeah, I just think we should have more motorcycle spots in general, that'd.

M

Be really great and because, when I have parked in normal spots, I've actually had my bike knocked over because they didn't whoever.

M

I'm assuming they didn't see my bike so now I have to park it towards the.

M

Back so that, hopefully people see my bike and don't hit it.

M

So just in general, those are good. um I'd also agree with alebond's statement.

M

uh Regarding uh miss uh ms p von smith's statement.

M

uh About you know, are we gonna require everyone else to carpool.

M

um They this is hauling the same amount of people just because we can fit more.

M

Bikes there or more vehicles there.

M

Well, maybe we should have more motorcycle spots than.

M

But so that's that's that I think we just need more motorcycle spots in.

M

General, I'm sorry I'm kind of rambling here and anyway. I would just like to have more spots to encourage.

M

Motorcycles and mopeds and obviously bicycles.

M

Just as a means of transportation, kind of a small part.

M

Of the solution to climate change in general, you know they they require.

M

Significantly less fuel consumption to move.

M

One around and uh you know a smaller carbon footprint and even less.

M

Resources to make them, you know, there's just less metal less rubber to make this.

M

Thing, and also uh regarding electric motors.

M

Like motorcycles are going to be the are already the place where there are more and more electric options available, so we are going to.

M

Want to be thinking about that too, like um there's, actually an electric.

M

Harley-Davidson that you're going to want to think about like.

M

You're, probably that's the size of a harley-davidson. You don't want to park that electric bike at your electric bicycle rack.

M

um But there's lots of other smaller electrical bikes.

M

That could fit there that are the size of a moped, so just to be thinking about.

M

That um so yeah that's sort of kind of.

M

Rambling here, but um I just I want, uh I hope motorcycles are.

M

On our radar a little bit more, so thank you. Thank you very much.

E

And up next we have joseph uh who should be unmuted and ready to go.

N

uh Hello, uh this is joseph nikem. I support the amendment as written.

N

I believe that it now balances the needs of residents who use motorcycles and.

N

Motor-Driven cycles and the burden on the city to.

N

Accommodate them equitably with other modes of transportation, in addition, by implementing the state's definitions of mdca.

N

And mdcb the amendment as written, provides clarity for enforcement should.

N

There be a violation against it. I also support more dedicated, secure.

N

Motorcycle parking, both within garages and on surface parking.

N

To avoid utilizing parking infrastructure intended for bicycles,.

N

A

Thank you very much. Any other public comment.

A

Okay, I would like to go back to staff. I think miss cox has a comment.

H

Yes, most of our motorcycle uh corrals are on the sidewalks and in order to get.

H

To them you have to travel on the sidewalks to get to them. So that's another reason not to have a motorcycle flying down. The sidewalk is public safety.

H

H

Scooter or moped would be easier to manipulate around foot traffic.

H

Than having a motorcycle fly down the sidewalk to get to a bike trail.

H

And then another uh about motorcycle parking in the garage.

H

Most of the garage parking is on a slope and anybody that's rid the bike or has a.

H

Bike knows that you need to park them on a flat surface, so I think.

H

Having designated spaces in the garage would.

H

Prevent by motorcycle damage- and it just can't park them on a slope.

H

That's it. Thank you very much. I just yeah. I I see those points.

A

Definitely I mean, I would say I think we should have dedicated.

A

Motorcycle spots, but also not limit them if they want to park in regular spots. I.

A

Think they should get that option as well. Council.

A

Comments from council members thoughts concerns questions, council, member.

A

Volunteer immediate okay, um I mean I'm generally inclined to this.

B

Amendment uh I have to admit that I still don't quite.

B

I'm not satisfied with my understanding of definitions of terms.

B

Like motor driven cycle uh or that I understand the full.

B

Dimensions of it, but um in general it it seems like a.

B

um An overdue change that would more equitably, distribute.

B

Parking for non-car vehicles, um you know, starting with motorcycles.

B

And working their way down, so um I'm sort of ambivalent. Whether.

B

I'll abstain or vote yes tonight, like I I'm supportive in general. I just want to fully understand the question.

B

But uh thanks for the amendment, thank you very much. Anyone else.

A

Okay, I think we can go ahead and um do a do pass on this one. So I'll just.

A

Go ahead, council member smith.

A

I

Council, member rosenberger, will you restate what we're voting for.

I

After all that discussion sure, yes, we are voting on.

A

Amendment six- and this is um this- is defining motor driven cycles.

A

Class, a and class b- this is saying.

A

Son for me right a second. This is saying that.

A

Motor driven cycles can park at bike. Racks and motorcycles cannot.

A

Park at bike, racks and.

A

It is saying that motorcycles can park in.

A

Any spot in a garage.

I

I vote yes, I think. Okay, okay, thank you. I think I got it there. I don't.

A

Want to mislead you, I want to make sure I get it all out. Okay, council, member.

A

Piedmont: smith, yes, okay,.

A

Council, member volun, abstain, okay, and I will be a yes it's my.

A

Amendment so thank you very much. Okay. We are through our sixth amendment.

A

So help me out here, I think next, what we have is to look at the whole organ.

A

Right and do a discussion on that and um and potentially.

A

Do a a recommendation do pass for the entire ordinance okay.

A

So do we need to bring it up in a certain way, or can I just start.

A

E

I don't know if staff uh has anything else to add.

E

um From from last week, you may want to ask them if there's anything else, they'd.

E

Like to present, but um if not, I would open it up to.

E

Any additional council questions uh go to the public and then come back to.

E

Council for final comment: yes, perfect: okay! So let's go to staff.

A

First, to see, if there's any additional presentation, overview updates.

A

Of the um the ordinance in general for title 15 updates, I believe.

C

We only had those amendments for you to present.

C

And we have nothing else to present tonight.

C

If you have any questions about other stuff.

C

Other parts of the ordinance staff happy to answer those.

A

Wonderful. Thank you very much. The only thing I had thought about.

A

Is you know it's it's instating the visitor. The temporary visitor permit.

A

System parking permit system. um I think we were.

A

All pretty on board with that, but I didn't know if anyone wanted to weigh in on it or anything else in the ordinance. So just opening it up.

A

For council comment.

A

Council, member volun, I'm glad that staff proposed the temporary visitor.

B

Permit system I'm ambivalent about the continued existence of the annual.

B

Visitor permit, um but uh I also think that we may.

B

Find ourselves adjusting the price of temporary visitor permits too, because.

B

It's pretty steep, even by my uh measure,.

B

Nevertheless, it's an option that didn't exist before.

B

It's a welcome uh edition, um I'm looking forward to seeing what other.

B

People have to say about it, but thank you.

A

Thank you very much. Other council members.

A

We're going cash here, it's comment or question.

A

um Okay, it's getting late. I am also excited to do the visitor.

A

Permit system I like that, it's available to anyone any resident in any in the zone, so it really opens up some options for folks.

A

And I think we could over time right look at.

A

Getting rid of the annual visitor permit, the only thing I would want to ask, but I.

A

Know michelle's not here are we looking at.

A

All at selling booklets of visitor permits, I think, and maybe.

A

That would be something we want to do next year, but I think that would be a.

A

Way to get rid of the annual so that people still have the convenience of.

A

Potentially buying 10, you know 5 or 10 visitor permits.

A

And like once, they write the date on it. Stick it in their window.

A

They wouldn't be able to use that again kind of thing. They wouldn't have to come to city hall. Every time they get a, they need a visitor permit.

A

For someone, so I could see something like that being.

A

Good down the road, it's okay for not! Now, though, I think just good thoughts.

A

Okay, any other council comments on the entire ordinance council member pete.

A

Montman yeah for the temporary visiting visitor.

F

Permits um it says any any resident.

F

In the zone can apply for such a permit, depending on.

F

Availability, so is the number going to be limited.

A

I think this is the question from miss cox. I think.

A

I might have gone through this last. I can't provide an answer. I think.

C

Actually michelle should I speak for that, and uh ryan cox can also speak.

C

But I think the main reason was that it's the first year of this permit.

C

And uh I think the parking services wants to.

C

Evaluate their needs and because, if they.

C

If they over uh sold the zone, it may cause some problems so.

C

This section can provide uh parking services director to decide for.

C

Example how many permits they have sold and controlled the.

C

Numbers and have some kind of limits of that, but ryan.

C

Can provide ryan cox and provide more information. I believe.

H

No, that's. That's. Let's talk you muted yourself. Yes, he's.

H

Right we're going to see how many are sold to see you know how it works. Thank you, clark. Bolden did you want to.

A

Weigh in as well, I was just going to add some more.

F

Context: that's fine, okay, okay, great okay,.

A

Other council questions comments on the ordinance.

A

Did you raise your hand, okay, council, number golan.

B

A short comment: um what ms cox just said, underscores the effort I made with.

B

Amendment five, which is uh we don't know the demand until we're.

B

Going to see what the demand is, that's why it urged consideration of.

B

That permit the same way, that's why I support both of those.

B

Permits thanks. Thank you. Council comments. Okay, I think.

A

We can open it up to the public for comments on ordnance.

A

20-12 mending updating title 15 traffic and vehicles.

A

That's mr alexander, mr alexander, who is now unmuted.

L

Awesome go ahead thanks. uh This is greg alexander here again.

L

I really respect you all stamina. um I I'm interested in section 10, which.

L

Removes a few streets from it's called schedule.

L

I and it's uh basically there's a 25 mile an hour.

L

Speed limit around the city and this lists streets that have exceptions to.

L

That um and there I looked at the original schedule, it has, if I counted directly 55 street segments that are above that 25.

L

Miles an hour that means that the existing title 15 specifies that the.

L

Speed limit is going to be above 25 miles an hour um and that's.

L

A concern to me, um the the transportation plan.

L

Calls for every street in the city having a speed limit below 25 miles, an.

L

Hour, except for three and those three are the.

L

The state road 4546 bypass um state road 446 over on the east side.

L

um And both of those are are indot, so we don't need to be concerned with them in.

L

Local ordinances, as I understand it and then the the other is, is walnut.

L

North of the bypass, but every other street in.

L

The city is supposed to be a speed limit, 25 or below, according to our transportation plan and.

L

I I I assume that staff had that in mind when they recommended reducing the speed limit on on the five segments they've identified, and so I'm really excited that they're.

L

Beginning to do that, but we could just get rid of that whole list.

L

Everything that's over 30 miles an hour or higher could just be.

L

Removed from that list today, and it wouldn't take legal effect.

L

Until you know, until public works gets around replacing all the the different street signs, but we could send that signal. There's no reason that.

L

Staff has to lead and council has to follow, council could lead on this, and then staff could follow, and this is important because every time.

L

Like some little thing shows up like on rogers we've added bike lanes in.

L

Different segments piecemeal over the last about eight years, um there's been crossing at rogers at 4th.

L

Street as one independent project there's a school zone project at 8th.

L

Street, where my kids go to school at fairview elementary and that's pursued as an independent project, so each one of these little projects, they don't ask the question: should we reduce the speed limit on the.

L

Whole corridor of rogers, which you know in order to improve safety for.

L

In order to install a bike lane, you have to decrease the speed limit. That's the most important thing for bicycle safety. In order to install.

L

The school zone crossing you have to decrease the speed limit, and so, ironically, as they installed the school zone crossing, they actually installed brand new high visibility 30 mile an hour, speed.

L

Limit signs one block away from the school and that.

L

Defeats the purpose you know they should just when they, when they have this, they shouldn't ask, will we ever reduce the speed limit.

L

They should know. Yes, we are going to reduce the speed limit.

L

Make that decision for them make it easy for them, so they don't have to go and.

L

Try to justify it and do a traffic study to justify it and.

L

Re-Examine the whole corridor from from you know clear, creek on up.

L

Just say all these speed limits will now be 25 miles an hour.

L

And I mean we, we really should go a lot further, but but it's going to be.

L

Complicated you know, but the new traffic plan says a lot of.

L

Street typologies should be 20 miles an hour, and it would be nice if.

L

That was, you know, happening on a quicker time scale.

L

Obviously, that's going to be more work, but it's just so easy. You just identify.

L

The ones that are 30 or 40 miles an hour and we can just strike those from the.

L

List right away, because there's no reason for any car anywhere in the city to be going 30 or 40 miles an hour.

L

A

Thank you. Thank you very much. Any other comments in the ordinance.

A

What comments? Okay back to counsel for final comment here.

A

Okay, let's do a do pass recommendation right on ordinance, 20-12.

A

Okay, council, member smith, yes, council, member volun, yes,.

A

Okay, council, member pm smith, yes rosenberger, yes,.

A

Okay, okay, so that wraps up our first order of business here, let's.

A

Move in to um I guess I just didn't wrap that up.

A

It's four yeses on that, thanks, okay! So let's move into the seven.

A

Line right: do we have a time limit on this call? We just get to go forever here as long as we want uh we're.

B

The last meeting we're the last uh committee of the night.

B

um We didn't advertise a stop time, um but.

B

I don't know anybody wants to stay much longer. I mean, generally speaking,.

B

11 o'clock, a goal right and well, we didn't have a lot of council.

A

Questions ahead of time on this, so maybe we might get it done. Okay, so now we've got. Let me pull up everything here. We've got our.

A

Second order of business here, um ordinance 20-14: this is to reflect a.

A

Proposed redesign of 7th street so again changing our favorite title 15 and the.

A

Bloomington municipal code, I think we have.

A

uh Beth rosenberger here to present on this and answer questions as.

A

Well, as neil copper thanks everyone for sticking around until 10 32 to get this going so first I'll open it up to staff to.

A

Do your thing a little presentation, a little overview.

A

Whatever you'd like answering questions right off the bat.

K

Hi this is beth rosenberger. um Obviously there are more people on this.

K

Call out of the council members here how many of you.

K

Have seen the presentation about the seven line already.

A

One two three and I'm pretty sure, councilmember vollen, has as well: okay.

A

All of that, okay.

K

K

K

I was planning to do an overview of the project. First.

K

um Because it does address some questions.

K

Basically, I like to start over here at the b.

K

Line on the western side of the project and move.

K

East and I wanted to look at the project first.

K

And then talk about why second and.

K

I can go as fast. I can try to go super fast, but I also.

K

Want to kind of make clear: this is a big project.

K

I think it's a really exciting project and I know it's 10 30 at night.

K

So I don't want me moving quickly to kind of feel like it's getting short.

K

Shrift, you know yeah, you know what government takes no.

A

Break so just take all the time you need, we don't even know what sleep is.

A

So feel free, so um this is from the parking commission.

K

Presentation so councilmember vollen will be familiar.

K

Basically, why we're here is this is the city's second protected bike lane.

K

Project, this is the first protected bike lane project.

K

Where we are also asking to remove on-street parking.

K

And we are asking to modify some stop signs along the route. Those.

K

Are the two bigger requests that have implications for title 15.? So that's why.

K

We're here we want to get approval in order to move forward with.

K

The design of this project, basically, if, if there, if the.

K

Parking removal cannot be approved. The project can't move forward.

K

So we wanted to bring this to council now.

K

And you know get that conversation going since we want to finish the design.

K

And get construction bid for the project. This fall to be constructed summer.

K

2021. that's next summer, okay, so on the left side of the screen.

K

We see the proposal includes adding an east-west stop sign.

K

On 7th street and removing the b-line stop sign.

K

I have all those measurements in here: I'm not going to read them, but if you.

K

Have questions about them? I can address them at some point at the intersection with morton and 7th. The proposal is to remove the.

K

East-West stop sign if there are specific questions about.

K

The stop signs, I think neil copper will be best to answer those.

K

There was a traffic analysis study done on this corridor and I think.

K

Most people would be surprised that 7th street carries.

K

More volumes already than um than any of the cross streets where we.

K

Are requesting to remove stop signs? You also see a range crossing here.

K

That's exciting that's raised for the bike lane and the pedestrians I'm happy.

K

To talk about how that improves safety in the next block from morton to college.

K

Avenue you'll see throughout this corridor the.

K

Two-Way protected bike lane is on the south side of the street.

K

And what makes it protected is that there are physical barriers.

K

Along along the corridor between the bicycle facility and motor vehicle.

K

Traffic in this block, it would be reconfiguring.

K

The angled parking to have parallel parking in this section here.

K

And um there's one loading zone space that is used.

K

Quite frequently, we think um by the hotel.

K

And that loading zone space would remain. In addition, the changes at the college.

K

Avenue intersection are some protected corners here as well.

K

As a bicycle signal, none of that is part of the title. 15.

K

Change at this moment in the next block from college to walnut.

K

Like the other box, starting in this block, there's no on street parking.

K

At all, currently, there's on-street parking on the north side.

K

And the south side of this street one question that I.

K

Received from council member piedmont, smith was.

K

Does this remove ada spaces and what is the plan for that?.

K

The proposal impacts four ada spaces along the corridor. I.

K

Know two of them are in this block. One of them is in a place where it could.

K

Be put just with the reconfigured parking and.

K

The others we would look at just a location, very nearby on a cross street.

K

To add a new ada space.

K

For the ones that are being removed so we'll continue moving.

K

East and the next block from walnut street to washington street.

K

This uh you know we see this I'll, do that on the south side of the street.

K

Still currently, there's some parking in this block as well in existing this has a nice wider median.

K

We see trees along there. One question was what will be.

K

In the medians and I failed to create a list of all the.

K

Options, but there are multiple options we do know. We want to put trees in.

K

Anywhere, we can put trees in, they help provide shade and they help.

K

Reduce storm water impacts because they capture storm water. We could use pavers because they're lower maintenance.

K

We are also working with cbu to look at green storm water.

K

Infrastructure options and if that would be in some of the medians.

K

Or at a different location, another question.

K

Was about the bus stops and um and bus zones in code? So this is one of.

K

The bus stops, this is a floating bus, island and also the tool.

K

Design memo noted two things that a driveway at the southeast corner.

K

Of washington would be removed in order to accommodate.

K

The bus stop that was wrong in that it met the southwest and then it turned out being wrong and that we're.

K

Not proposing removing it because of the amount of reconfiguring.

K

That would have to happen in that parking lot, so there are.

K

Four current bus stops along this corridor.

K

On the south side, this plan combines two of those and results in.

K

Three floating bus stops. They are all different lengths.

K

But the design is similar um in that each of them has a raised well.

K

uh Sort of bicycle speed bump that bicyclists will have to go through.

K

In order to be alerted of the conflict and to yield to pedestrians,.

K

And then they are all curb height as well, so it makes for faster and.

K

Easier boarding and a lighting on buses.

K

In the next block, just a pretty typical cross section here.

K

There are some breaks in the barrier for driveways.

K

And alleys, this shows these driveways is closed and that is not.

K

That's not worked out, yet we are working directly. There are only.

K

Three properties where we are proposing to.

K

uh Change or eliminate driveways on seventh and we are working directly.

K

With the properties, the property owner or the representative.

K

In certain cases, so this next to first presbyterian church, they have three.

K

Parking lot entrances is one place where we're.

K

Working with that property, we honestly haven't um we're circling.

K

Back with them soon and proposing one option, they will more than likely still have at least.

K

One driveway opening onto 7th street, but we are just trying to work with them.

K

To make sure it can still achieve what they want from their parking areas.

K

While trying to really minimize the number of cuts.

K

And the width of cuts along the corridor to focus on improving safety and comfort.

K

As well, I think that answered another council.

K

Question so we'll continue as we move east.

K

This block- this is another one of the driveways you might see over on the left.

K

That I'm working with that property owner to see if it's feasible to close.

K

Or relocate, and I think nothing major of note that we.

K

Received questions on here. This block is the poplars building at iu.

K

We see another bus stop here, so floating bus stops in code. The reason.

K

Bus zones are codified is because you have to.

K

Delineate curb space where there is existing on-street parking.

K

And clarify that codify that other private vehicles can't park.

K

In that space and that it's for buses in terms of.

K

When the bus stops in the street for boarding.

K

We do not have that in code and I would say the answer to that.

K

Is just it's a policy decision? They could be in code.

K

They aren't in code, there are 500 bus stops.

K

So that would be great as a map. If it were to be in code, I would say instead.

K

Of a table, but that, let me know if you have more.

K

Questions on that one- and I forgot to mention the.

K

Stop signs as we traveled through I'm sorry, so, with the exception of the two signalized intersections college avenue.

K

And walnut each intersection since then, washington.

K

Lincoln grant and now done. The proposal is to.

K

Remove the east west stop signs and keep the north south stop signs in most cases, they're a one-way street. So just.

K

Obviously, the stock sign being on the side.

K

That has um traffic, so this next block done to indiana is where.

K

The design changes because the amount of available right-of-way changes, so the median gets much narrower. It is.

K

Still a physical barrier like a raised curb here, but there's not.

K

The flexibility to put trees or something.

K

Within that space.

K

And the same as we continue east until we get to woodlawn.

K

There was a comment at the public at the public meeting we held.

K

About how would you move from the bike lane, if you wanted to turn.

K

North onto fest or park, or turn from one of those onto the bicycle facility.

K

We're checking out the design, to probably add some breaks in the barrier.

K

To facilitate that movement as well.

K

And then once we get to the intersection with woodlawn, this is a.

K

Bus stop that can accommodate two buses. Maybe I should ask neil to correct me if.

K

It's actually three, um and so this one is the one that was.

K

Being combined with a bus, stop that was closer to park.

K

Avenue and bloom we've worked with bloomington transit on this project.

K

They are completely on board and were supportive of combining these bus stops.

K

As well at woodlawn avenue, uh sadly, for now the.

K

Project ends and the street transitions to iu.

K

K

So I think I'll briefly cover the. Why? Because it's fun so.

K

The real question I like this chart a lot.

K

It takes a minute to take it in, but it's basically.

K

If we're, when we talk about transportation, we're talking about moving people through space and also being in space.

K

But when we look at one lane, width of a 10 foot lane and.

K

Look at how efficiently you can move people in that space. The chart at the top shows that private.

K

Motor vehicles, you could like move 600 to 1600 per hour.

K

Depending on factors, mixed traffic would be private vehicles with buses.

K

Is a thousand to 2800 per hour a two-way protected bike? Lane is 7 500.

K

People per hour- and that is what we're proposing here- the two-way bike lane.

K

That is mostly 10 feet or more a dedicated.

K

Transit lane it's 4 000 to 8 000 and a super.

K

Efficient use of space is a sidewalk which is ten feet of sidewalk, which you.

K

Could say is also on this corridor because we have five feet on both sides.

K

Is nine thousand people per hour? So um I understand we are asking to remove.

K

On street parking, but in terms of a corridor.

K

And the ability to move people, I think this project has a dramatic impact on.

K

The ability for the number of people who can move on.

K

7Th street, both in a safe and more comfortable way.

K

So when we consider that it has sidewalk on both sides of the street,.

K

A two-way protected bike lane and mixed traffic.

K

With frequent buses, it'll be a very efficient corridor in terms of.

K

Multi-Modal transportation- and I think that is especially due to.

K

Having the bike protected bike lane, that will be unique for our city.

K

In terms of public transit use, this is a really high transit use corridor.

K

There are four bus routes that travel along here.

K

10 bus stops, which, with our combination of two stops, would become nine.

K

There are almost 300 bus trips a day and about 3 400 passenger rides per day.

K

Pre-Covered and the buses have five to ten minor collisions every year.

K

The main reason they have these collisions is because of adjacent on-street parking. Narrow lanes are really great for.

K

Slowing traffic, but they are not great for buses, which.

K

Are larger when they're adjacent to a vertical barrier.

K

Like a parked car, it makes it really challenging for the buses.

K

If the lane is narrow with a curb but not with something.

K

Vertical next to it like a parked car, if there aren't those.

K

The buses can deal with narrow lanes still because.

K

It's their mirrors that are the main issue.

K

So multiple questions on parking there are currently 121.

K

Metered parking spaces on the street, we're requesting to remove 113.

K

Of those metered spaces in 2019, those 121 meters generated 160.

K

000 in revenue, I'm gonna go through these numbers fast.

K

But you know feel free to ask me questions so based on.

K

121 meters for a year and the total amount of revenue possible.

K

The meters generated revenue 35 of the time.

K

In parking, um it's like typical parking best practice.

K

Which is more about managing parking and I would say less about climate change goals. Parking best practices aim to have.

K

Parking utilized 85 of the time.

K

We do know that in 2019 the combo zone was.

K

In effect until august and it applied to 55.

K

Of the meters, the combo zone was where, if you had a neighborhood parking zone,.

K

Permit you could park at a meter without paying.

K

So some spaces were taken up until august.

K

Assuming by people with a neighborhood zone that we're not paying a meter.

K

Council member volun requested more data about it.

K

It's my next slide, though, and just to clarify.

K

In addition to the metered spaces, there's one block of zone parking.

K

That accommodates about 13 vehicles, based on that it's about 265 feet, long.

K

Dunn street we are adding 11 meter spaces.

K

And 33 zone spaces with a recent title, 15 change to add parallel parking.

K

To that street, so michelle wall did get this data.

K

Pulled from ips and park mobile.

K

So a quick summary is that ips is a meter data.

K

Park mobile only goes by the block, so it has to be.

K

Combined thing in to compare when the zone.

K

When the combo zone, where people were allowed to park at a meter with their.

K

Neighborhood permit to when they weren't allowed to.

K

um If we look at this 2018 five-month total was 62 000.

K

And then 2019, the five-month total was 66 hundred and change.

K

So the difference in those five months from the year where the combo zone.

K

Applied to the year where it didn't was four thousand four hundred and forty.

K

Five dollars give or take.

K

So I can also talk about why we build protected bike lanes.

K

Mainly when we think of people driving there, we build one type of thing and we.

K

Understand how to build something for driving. But when we.

K

Look at people bicycling, there are lots of different user groups.

K

So this they actually usually talk about a one percenter.

K

Which is somebody who is probably a writer with the bloomington bicycle club.

K

Who will be very fine biking on almost anything.

K

The highly confident is the user group we've basically captured.

K

With the infrastructure that we have in bloomington.

K

This means you'll bike, sometimes on bike lanes or.

K

Without a bike lane on slower streets and things like that,.

K

But what we want to capture with our infrastructure.

K

Are people who are interested but concerned and when you build for this.

K

User group, the rest of those users are also.

K

Comfortable and accommodated, and that would be best described by.

K

Somebody biking with a child somebody who doesn't want to bike next.

K

To moving motor vehicles, which is a pretty rational concern.

K

And people who will bike on the b line, but won't bike anywhere else in town.

K

um This is the basics of what a protected bike lane looks like, but since.

K

We've gone over our project, um we'll just say it's a sidewalk, a.

K

Space separating the sidewalk from the bike lanes, we've got the bike lane.

K

A physical separator and then the space where cars.

K

Also move a really important thing to note about protected bike lane.

K

Facilities is they improve safety on the street for.

K

All users, so over here in this little blue box, we.

K

Can see that protected bike lanes have been shown to.

K

Reduce serious injury and fatality collisions.

K

Collisions for people biking by 90 percent.

K

Reduce fatalities for all road users by 44.

K

And we think a lot of this comes from separating the modes.

K

And creating conditions where people drive.

K

More slowly and safely also there's a benefit to pedestrians by.

K

Separating people bicycling when people feel unsafe.

K

They bike on the sidewalk, so when we see people biking on the.

K

Sidewalk, it's usually not because they want to be there, but because they feel unsafe or uncomfortable.

K

With their other options,.

K

And this accommodates micro mobility. So I keep saying bike lane, but people and.

K

Scooters can use this and then it frees up the.

K

Sidewalk for people walking with strollers or just.

K

Walking and want to be not encountering people on bikes. Why is.

K

It on the south side of the street, there are fewer cross streets.

K

There were fewer bus stops, it's a direct connection to campus.

K

And it minimizes the drainage impacts, because.

K

When you start looking at drainage and curbs.

K

Projects get more expensive so also the project works within the existing curbs.

K

And mostly just adds the median, along with other changes, but.

K

We, for the most part, are not touching the.

K

Outer curves on the street.

K

So you see this design throughout the project. This is called.

K

A protected corner and the reason it's a great benefit.

K

Is it improves safety for all users within intersections.

K

When you're a driver and there's no corner, you.

K

Take a right turn at a. How would that be, I want to say, sharper.

K

Angle but it's very hard as the driver to look over your back shoulder and try.

K

To look for someone in a bicycle lane in designs like this, it puts you more at.

K

Almost 90 degrees to the bicycling crosswalk into the.

K

Pedestrian crosswalk, so the bicyclists have greater.

K

Visibility to drivers and drivers are easier to see.

K

Much more raised crossings also make people more visible.

K

Finally, don't forget about those great comprehensive playing goals.

K

That were adopted so increasing sustainability.

K

Improve public transit, improve the bicycle and pedestrian network.

K

Prioritize non-automotive modes protect neighborhood streets, optimize public.

K

Space for parking and educate the public in the memo I.

K

Described, I think how this project touches on a lot of these goals and while I think I would argue this.

K

Project is optimizing public space for parking.

K

Because we know this parking is under utilized and there could be a more efficient use for this space.

K

The traders district garage will plans to come online in spring.

K

2021 this project, the plan, is to construct.

K

In summer 2021, while sometimes those are kind of considered different user groups,.

K

A garage is still adding inventory to the parking system.

D

K

Neil, do you want to, let me see if there were any questions.

K

Estimated completion date, churning movements.

K

Okay, oh the estimated cost of the project is two million dollars.

K

And for the metered data, I can send the spreadsheets if you want as well.

K

They're not that fun, but sometimes you want to see that.

K

Neil, would you like to talk about turning movement.

O

Yeah, neil copper playing transportation I'll try to.

O

Share my screen real quick.

O

All right, so the question was: how do you make a.

O

Turn from the two-way protected bike lane there's actually a.

O

Lot to go through with that answer, I'll try to go through it pretty quickly, but.

O

Let me know if you have questions um so there's two reasons.

O

Two primary reasons where you might ask that question.

O

One is because of the physical separation, so, instead of being a.

O

Traditional bike lane just paint on the ground, you have a physical barrier.

O

Separating the bike lane in the motor vehicle lane, so how does that come into play? And then the second aspect is because it's a two-way facility, uh so you have bicycles going in uh what.

O

You would think of as the the opposite direction on that side of.

O

The road, um so I'm going to start with a question.

O

About the physical barrier, so on my screen is a graphic. This is from a.

O

Publication out of new york city, but I described kind of your standard. What.

O

They call vehicular style turn the bicycle might make in the image.

O

That you see, obviously making a right hand turn is pretty straightforward. I'm.

O

Not going to go into that making a left-hand turn in a traditional.

O

Bicycle lane, you would merge into traffic merge into the left, turn lane and then follow the signal or stop sign or.

O

Whatever, whatever it was, you need to follow with a physically protected bike lane that can be more challenging to do because.

O

There's a physical barrier there, it can still be possible. Of course, if.

O

You choose to exit the protected bike lane in an alley or a.

O

Driveway or something and experienced users may do that, but in.

O

General, what you would do this next graphic.

O

What they call uh here, they're calling it a pedestrian style, turn uh commonly it's referred to as a two-stage.

O

Turn because you're making the turn in two different stages.

O

So you actually act as lighter going straight through.

O

The intersection stop on the far side of the intersection.

O

And turn and then you wait for the green light or.

O

Wait for your turn, if it's a stop sign so, instead of merging with traffic, you.

O

Do this type of train, you can do this, um whether it's a physically protected.

O

Bike lane, or not uh often a less experienced cyclist will be more.

O

Comfortable doing this turn even from a traditional bike: cleaner.

O

Without a bike lane present in order to make this, this kind of.

O

Movement, more intuitive and to help with kind of education on that front, it's.

O

Common to do what's called a two-stage turn-q box, so.

O

In this image, you see it's basically just painting a box on the ground.

O

Showing a cyclist where they might wait in order to make that two-stage turn.

O

This image is just a one-way protective bike claim, but I thought it showed it.

O

Pretty well, you basically find a spot for that box.

O

That is out of the flow of other bicyclists and also out of the.

O

Flow of conflicting motor vehicles and it's a clear spot for you to wait.

O

Where you're going to make your turn, this is just an image on the 7th street.

O

Proposal between college and walnut. So if you look at the walnut.

O

Intersection you can see in between if you're going eastbound of.

O

The bicycle there are places where you can pull to the right or to the left. We can put a two plan to put two stage.

O

Turn q boxes there to um to to show where you would wait as a.

O

Cyclist in order to make that turn um one of the some of the comments we.

O

Got after the public meeting was those weren't shown on these graphics and we are planning to flesh that out further and give some of that guidance in the opposite direction.

O

If you're, uh so this graphic you're a westbound, cyclist.

O

You kind of what you might think of as on the wrong side of the street.

O

It's the same general concepts. So if you are westbound and you're making.

O

A left turn uh it's relatively simple: you're you're crossing the opposite.

O

Direction of bicycles, but otherwise it's similar that you're going straight.

O

Across the intersection um and then if you're, making a right.

O

Turn as a westbound cyclist, uh it's similar to this two-stage turn.

O

Where you actually turn and stop, except that you don't have to cross the intersection first, you would just pull straight into tuesday's turning box. um I also want to point out that.

O

uh Anyone who's ridden a bicycle on a one of the multi-use paths we have in.

O

Town, this is basically the same thing that you would do uh if you're riding on a multi-use path. Those are two-way.

O

Facilities on one side of the street, except we're trying to give a bit more.

O

Definition here um and then you know the some of the other.

O

Differences between a multi-use password is, of course, you're not mixing with pedestrians, while you're doing it and.

O

You're, arguably more visible as you're kind of in the roadway. That's all that I.

O

A

Okay, thank you very much. We staff is finished, we'll go to council.

A

Council question.

A

Councilmember volin, I have one question.

B

When uh will traffic counts be done after the project is done, so we can see.

B

The difference in uh not just car but bike and maybe even.

B

Pedestrian traffic on the seven line.

O

So we actually have. um We have existing permanent bicycle counters on 7th street.

O

um East of indiana, so that would be we'll reinstall that, after the project.

O

And that would be an ongoing count for bicyclists.

O

um That does not count pedestrians. Pedestrians are more challenging to.

O

Count- and it also doesn't count motor vehicles, we have. We have data on the street from our before condition. uh You know.

O

Typically, after a project like this, you wait at least six months.

O

To let people get accustomed to the new configuration and change their travel.

O

Habits- things like that, so I don't have an exact date of when we.

O

Would get counts, but we would definitely want to evaluate it.

B

But the key thing is that you will be doing those counts.

B

Yeah, we would looking forward to it. Thank you.

A

Other council questions.

I

I don't have a question I just have. A comment. Looks like a great project.

A

Okay, thank you. We should go to the public first. I think thanks. I know.

A

Right, I know what was that: okay, um we'll go to the public for a comment on.

A

Ordnance, okay, it looks like we have greg alexander so far,.

A

Okay, greg will on meet. You looks like we're all set.

L

Hi I'm greg alexander again. um I just want to say I know you all are used to a.

L

Lot of negativity from me, but this project is awesome. It's.

L

um It's everything that our side paths aren't.

L

In our side paths, we we resolutely, you know what makes those inexpensive the.

L

Reason we have them is that we don't re-engineer the intersections. We.

L

Don't even re-engineer the driveway crossings and it's.

L

It's really dangerous, but uh on it's actually more dangerous than.

L

Riding a bicycle in the street which is flabbergasting for me, but this project.

L

Is the exact opposite? The the intersections are meticulously.

L

Engineered- and you know you know- I have some reservations, obviously, but um overall this is just. This is fantastic, I'm so excited to see.

L

This I have been waiting um 10 years for for good design to start.

L

Coming out of the city, engineering staff- and this is a good design um and.

L

This is made possible, I think, by the the transportation plan.

L

Thank you so much. Thank you very much, mr alexander. Any other public comments.

A

Comments from the public, okay, uh we we do have a request from aoban.

D

Oh right, you should be okay, go ahead, ready to go.

J

Hey everybody binder again here. um Well, I want to echo greg.

J

um Of course, about how just overall, this project is great,.

J

um It's it's certainly a very ambitious project.

J

And I'm very excited to see how it turns out. um I I think.

J

It is important to get all of the details right.

J

uh In the design of this project, the devil's really in the details and and.

J

Design details can can really matter a lot.

J

In terms of safety and usability and how intuitive the whole.

J

uh System is to use, and- and so I I just want to just make one comment.

J

About the the eastern end of this project, where it transitions to uh university property uh and and I.

J

I think that there are probably still some design.

J

Changes that that you know should should be looked at.

J

Possible design changes, particularly um you know when, when you have this, uh this.

J

Kind of I don't even know what to really call it, because it's not a really. It's not a standard kind of bike facility. But it's it's sort of a.

J

On-Street bike lane that crosses diagonally across the intersection.

J

And I I not only don't think I I not only don't think that a lot of people.

J

Will necessarily be comfortably using that um at least as it's intended, um but also it just introduces a lot of.

J

Potential for conflict between all the all the.

J

Different modes, I mean pedestrian bicycle um all the buses, of course, um other other motor traffic.

J

Because it is such a, I guess you might say unique kind of facility or.

J

A unique kind of design- I I don't think it's very intuitive to.

J

Use because cyclists going westbound uh from the north side of the street.

J

uh Transitioning to the south side of the street to the two-way path.

J

Sort of have to plunge headlong into the intersection into oncoming.

J

Traffic and I mean if, if I were using this facility- I I don't know if I would.

J

Think, oh, I sort of need to treat this like I'm turning left.

J

Because I'm crossing into the path of oncoming traffic, so I need to like.

J

Signal left as if I'm turning left, but I'm not.

J

Really turning left, I'm just going straight and you know I don't think that's going to be very clear.

J

For for anybody, uh you know to to really know what to do.

J

Based solely on having the green, uh you know dashed paint on the ground.

J

And stop signs because I I just don't think that either.

J

Of those types of intersection, treatments are really.

J

Intended for this kind of uh this kind of intersection, where you are.

J

Transitioning between uh you know, traffic on both sides of the.

J

Street to bicycle traffic on one side, so I would.

J

Really encourage uh staff to look at.

J

Like international best practices, because this type of intersection.

J

You know we're obviously not the first ones doing this kind of intersection.

J

There are many examples around the world. uh You.

J

Know, cities across across the world where you.

J

Are transitioning between those those two types of uh like cycle.

J

Tracks or or bike paths or bike lanes and.

J

You know some of them involve kind of doing a whole sort of protected.

J

Intersection, where you're, where you have a kind of two-stage turn process built into the intersection I mean. That's, that's, certainly how.

J

Like uh you know, a lot of like western european countries would probably design.

J

This intersection, there's probably other ways to do it too.

J

Maybe maybe relocating the transition altogether, just outside of the.

J

Intersection so that you're not having all of these different con.

J

Conflict points introduced right at the point where people are trying to just continue going straight, uh but but what I that's. That's kind of.

J

Really mainly, what I'm concerned about with this project is is just.

J

uh That that that is such a important connection point.

J

uh You know, because it's it's where it's, where users of this of the seven line.

J

Are going to be either entering or exiting campus, and I.

J

Think the point where people are going to be leaving campuses- it's also just you know it tends to be at just a high, really high traffic high.

J

Conflict area, so everything that we can possibly.

J

Do to reduce conflict and improve safety. You know particularly.

J

At that woodburn intersection, I think, would be really helpful, but you know.

J

Again, overall, I think the general overall design of this project is great. I think it's you know. For the most part, it's very well thought out, um but I I would really please strongly urge.

J

Staff to do some more attention, give some more attention to the.

J

The east end of this project- and you know, hopefully I mean.

J

You know within the next few months maybe iu will budge and.

J

You know there will be, uh you know, dif different ways to kind of approach that.

J

Than than having this kind of rough transition, but you know in lieu of that I I hope that that the other plans can be made for.

J

For smoothing that out, so thanks, thank you very much any other.

A

Comments from the public looks like that's.

D

It okay, we'll go back to council for common.

D

Any other questions, final thoughts.

D

Council member pmontagnet.

F

Yeah, just very briefly, I think this is a really.

F

Exciting project- and I really would like to.

F

Wholeheartedly thank uh beth rosenberger for her presentation because she.

F

Answered all of my questions in the course of her presentation, so I really appreciate that. That's really great submitting questions.

A

Early, it's useful we're doing great okay, council member.

A

Volun you're muted just want to say it's.

B

Unprecedented, it's exciting and it's overdue. I'm.

B

Very happy to vote for it. I do agree with mr binder is concerned about the.

B

Interface at the east end of the project there's got to be a way we can maybe re design a better bike box to.

B

Make that transition better, but otherwise I can't wait to see this thing.

B

In place, thank you.

A

Thank you very much. Looking forward to this kind of project becoming.

A

Precedent you know what I'm saying: okay, any other comment.

A

Okay, I think we can do uh do a do pass recommendation.

A

Here: okay, council, member piedmont, smith: yes,.

D

Council member golan- yes councilmember smith, yes,.

A

Councilmember rosenberger, yes, okay, those four.

A

Yes, yeses and we'll send that back to council.

A

Next week, okay, so where are we? I think we can.

A

Just say: wrap this up.

A

Yes, okay, wonderful! So thanks! Everyone for coming.

A

We will consider this adjourned and see everyone who knows when okay hi.

D

Thanks for watching thanks everybody, thank you very much. Thank you.

G

G

G